12/21 Update: This dress is included in the 2021 Half-Yearly Sale for $76 – lucky sizes only!
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
We’ve featured this dress from Tahari before (in one of our Nordstrom sale roundups), but it caught my eye again recently because it now has a ton of good reviews. If you like what I call a personality neckline, or a slightly different look with a very simple shape, this is a great dress to consider.
I like that, in a way, it’s very buttoned-up — your shoulders will be covered, as well as most of your chest — but the star neckline gives it a fun vibe.
It’s available in the pictured “juniper” as well as dark navy (which looks black on my screen), in regular and petite sizes, and it’s selling out fast. The dress is $128 at Nordstrom. Star Neckline Crepe Sheath Dress
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Workwear sales of note for 5.26.23:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale just started! See our thoughts here.
- Amazon – Memorial Day Sales! Lots of discounts on Amazon Essentials and more.
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off lots of sale styles (prices as marked).
- Anthropologie – Extra 40% off sale.
- Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 25% off purchase (ends 5/31).
- Boden – Sale, up to 50% off.
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off sale; already up to 70% off (ends 5/31) – also mix & match sale with men’s shirts, 4 for $249.
- Cole Haan – Up to 50% off sale styles (ends 5/31).
- Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19; up to 50% off everything.
- Express – Summer kickoff sale, 30-50% off everything (plus $35+ steals) (ends 6/1).
- H&M – Up to 60% off online and in-store.
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off “dressed up” styles (lots of cute dresses!).
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything, no exclusions.
- J.McLaughlin – The Sale Event, extra 30% off.
- Loft – 40% off full-price styles
- M.M.LaFleur – Short but sweet sale (ends 6/1).
- Madewell – Get 30% off your purchase.
- Ministry of Supply – 25% off sitewide (ends 6/1).
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty.
- Shopbop – Up to 50% off designer sale!
- Sue Sartor – Lots of cute dresses on sale!
- Talbots – Extra 40% off all markdowns (ends 6/1)!
- Theory – Up to 60% off + an extra 20% off.
- Universal Standard – 25% off sitewide (ends 6/1).
Other noteworthy sales:
- CB2.com – Up to 50% off everything!
- Joss & Main – Up to 60% off, plus an extra 20% off with code.
- Tuft & Needle – Save up to $775 on mattresses. (Reader favorite bed brand; Kat really likes hers!)
- West Elm – Memorialy Day Sale, up to 60% off.
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- Favorite comfy pants for an overnight plane ride?
- I’ve got a nasty case of tech neck…
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What’s the best commuter backpack?
- I’m early 40s and worry my career arc is ending…
- I canNOT figure out the proportions in this current season of fashion…
- How is everyone wearing scarves in 2023?
- What shoes are people wearing to work between boot and sandal season?
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What are some of your go-to outfits that feel current?
- I need more activities that are social, easy to learn and don’t involve extreme running/jumping/etc.
Can anyone recommend slippers that they love, preferably without shearling inside? $100 max.
I have great swade slippers (booties) but they do have REAL sheepskin lining, and they are great now that it is getting cold outside. Even inside, the temperature of my floor is cold, and the sheepskin keeps my feet warm b/c I do NOT wear shoes inside my apartment. I recomend you go to UGGs and pay a little more and get a nice pair. Dad told me about him getting a pair on the web, but it was terrible. It fell apart within a month, and it was made in Eastern Europe, so of course, there was NO way to get a refund, and what was he suposed to do, send it back to Tazmekistan? FOOEY on that! Just pay the money and be glad you have a good pair. There’s an UGGs on Madison around 58th street, I think. Go for it. YAY!!!!
I mainly have slippers that I can wear outside because my laundry room is outside the house. The Skechers BOBS Ice Angel Slipper have a lug sole but are still really lightweight. Otherwise, I just wear fuzzy socks with grippers on them because I have slippery hardwood floors.
Ooooh. I like these. I think I need them.
My sister bought me a pair of house shoe style slippers at Walgreens that have replaced a lot of more expensive pairs that I had issues with (too clunky with shearling, too minimal, slipping inside the slipper, slipping outside the slipper, and–incredibly–blisters).
I love these from Target: https://www.target.com/p/women-s-gemma-suede-slippers-gilligan-o-malley-153/-/A-53456370?preselect=53296144#lnk=sametab
I love my Haflinger wool clogs. They’re above $100 generally (not by a ton) but can be found on sale for under that. I see some now for $69 @ Sierra Trading Post.
+1 for Haflinger.
Does anyone have insight re what it’s like to work in one of the Big 4 firms as a non-accountant?
IME, it varies greatly. I think some of my former colleagues read this site, so I won’t say which firm I used to work for, but the experience of my practice group was markedly worse than the others in my cohort who had different clients/worked for different partners. I was in the consulting arm and was miserable for 80% of my time at the firm, but a good friend of mine (also in consulting, but a different industry focus) has been promoted, enjoys a close relationship with the partners she works for, and has had such a good experience that she is essentially the poster child for why our firm rocks.
Apparently they hand out backpacks, but don’t use one if you’re petite.
This is an underappreciated comment.
Worry about yourself
Ha! Yeah, you gotta dress nicely for the busybodies who work in the building!
Do you mean as a consultant or in some sort of practice support or other functional role?
Fave home karaoke machine?
We have 3 young kids and a husband who is a homebody but loves to be silly and sing and be goofy. For his birthday I think I have decided on “affordable” karaoke machine that is easy to use. Any suggestions?
The Xbox has a series of games called SingStar, that we used to play a LOT in my teen years.
My people (of an Asian country) love karaoke. Everyone I knew growing up had one in their home, so I feel like I should know the answer to this question, but these days I see many of them using a bluetooth microphone that you can sync to your phone or tablet’s music. Amazon has many models to choose from
Not all anything but
I have a friend whose parents were born in An Asian Country, though she was born in America. And she says, “I know it is a stereotype, but we DO love karaoke!” I get it.
I don’t have one, but I saw one in Costco last weekend. In general, no one can beat Costco prices.
Xbox 360 plus a secondhand Rockband set? That’s our equivalent set up.
Wearing or Styling Big Scarf
Ideas on how to wear a 36×36 scarf without looking overwhelmed or that it’s a shawl? I’m good with smaller sizes, but this one ? I’m size 10-12 and 5’4″.
Is it cold where you are? I do it sort of bandito style: point down in front, wrap back and then around again and tie. You can fluff the point so it’s over the knot or not (not is often easier if it is any sort of pattern that would obscure the knot).
I am beginning to hate square scarves — I find the long rectangles so much easier to work with.
I got a lot of ideas for this size from Mai Tai’s Picture book. I’ll post a link below.
You basically start with a “basic bias fold” and go from there. I do the slip knot, just drape it and the wrapped basic slide most often. Also 5’4″ and I don’t find that size to be too overwhelming if done correctly. It’s surprising how much the thickness of the scarf make a difference, too!
Just pair it with Ferragamos.
NOT with a backpack
And don’t slouch
How do you not know this?
Has anyone taken a Macbook to the Apple Store just for cleaning? My keyboard is grimy and I don’t have the dexterity or patience to take it apart myself. They don’t have it listed as a service on the website, but I wondered if it might be an unofficial option anyway.
Use compressed air keyboard cleaner first. You probably don’t need to take it in at all.
Another anonymous judge
I took mine in for a sticky key and they opened it up and cleaned it all out for me no charge! I love my MacBook!
hard to be young and short and small
I have a tall 10-year-old. I work upstairs from a Big 4 accounting firm where there are a lot of entry-level hires (and interviewing/interning students). I feel for the ladies who are short (and obs also young). It realized this morning that from the back, I couldn’t tell which one was 10 (based on anything but knowing which one was my child):
above-the-knee dropped-waist dress with fuller skirt in a nubby knit material: check
round-toe flats: check
backpack bag with logo: check
long hair worn loose: check
a bit of a slouch: check
This is not fair, but I feel that it might help younger working women, especially if small in stature, not to do all of this at once when going to work. And you don’t need towering heels — even something with the heel of a Ferragamo Vara would help. Or an accessory (real jewelry / scarf-wrap thing that’s not a $10 infinity scarf).
[And I realize that casual offices have totally not helped with this — my daughter is close to my size, at least height-wise, and I have to admit that stuff of mine that she borrows probably should be living in her closet permanently.]
Um, I’m guessing when they turned around it wasn’t an issue? Also, being young can be an asset. I think it can skew toward playing dress up to start wearing old lady accessories. I don’t get this advice at all (and I’m not young either).
… what? You see these people in the lobby and elevator right? So they’re commuting to/from work? There is nothing inappropriate about wearing comfortable shoes, a backpack, and a scarf (it’s getting chilly!) on your commute.
Worry about yourself
I mean, I’m already wearing shearling boots on my commute most days. I hope the older ladies in the building aren’t wringing their hands when they see me in the lobby . . .
What’s “not fair” is this post. Some women are short. Some women can’t wear heels for medical reasons. Many young professionals opt to use backpacks. In fact, some of the Big 4 give backpacks to incoming employees! Can you believe it? It’s difficult to determine age from the back, but quite frankly, that’s true for all heights.
Yes, or even from the front sometimes! I’m 6’ and even when I’m dressed in professional attire, I’ve been mistaken for a high school or college student because I have a round, full baby-ish face. No matter how much weight I lose my face stays full. It’s just genetics.
This. I am physically unable to wear heels, and am short in stature. Thanks for making me feel like I will perpetually be mistaken for a 10 year old.
Worry about yourself
Well, I’m short, in my 20’s, with a face that looks like it belongs to a 16 year-old (despite my acne scars), and yeah, it’s not fair that we’re not taken seriously. But having older women tsk and tut at the sight of me doesn’t really help, they don’t sound concerned or like they’re on my side at all, it sounds like they’re judging me just as much, if not more, than the jerks who have a hard time taking me seriously. Posts like this remind me that there will always be petty, judgmental women scrutinizing my appearance and finding details to clutch their pearls over.
And I will say that I did feel a boost in confidence after I upgraded my work attire to more sophisticated work dresses, many of the new pieces were found right here in fact, and maybe it did improve how I was perceived at work, but my work environment is much more casual than Big 4, and the higher ups were already blown away by the work I’d been doing. However, that motivation came from within, it came from positive inspiration; I did NOT shopping because someone made me feel self conscious. Being nasty – sorry, “brutally honest” – doesn’t really make people want to improve themselves, it just makes them feel bad and dislike you.
Worry about yourself
… did you just legit recommend a $600 shoe to folks who (you assume) are entry-level?
Not you, WAY, my comment nested weird.
Right?? Don’t forget to sub in the $10 scarf for Hermes as well.
Never too many shoes...
In fairness to the OP (although the whole post was ridiculous), I think she was just trying to offer an example of the heel height she was suggesting.
Worry about yourself
Yeah, that’s what I got from it too. I had to look it up though, because to me, Ferragamo is not a brand I can afford, so it’s not really on my radar. Looking at their shoes though, that does seem like a reasonable heel height, just a small block to give you a boost, but that’s still I think a personal choice. Besides, even my low, comfy heels are kept under my desk at work, I rarely wear them outside because the brick and cobblestone walkways in the city will chew them up!
Not fair, but I get it. I have a very tall female co-worker who will never be mistaken for a 10-year-old or somehow project youth-related under-competence based on outward appearance. But I’m happy being 5-4 — it’s just so much easier (but I think I’d prefer it to being 5-0 — my coworkers that size make efforts to not look young — always a sheath + heels + polished hair; I can see that it is an effort for them).
Fwiw, I’m tall and am mistaken for a teenager all the time. There are lots of factors besides height and how you’re dressed, including face shape, whether or not you have freckles, whether or not you wear make-up etc. I’m 5’9″ and am mistaken for a teenager more than anyone I know (I’m 30).
I’m so glad you were able to afford Ferragamo shoes as a college student. Please realize that most people can’t. There’s nothing wrong with wearing less expensive shoes or choosing not to wear jewelry. Would you criticize a man for these things?
I think it was a reference to heel height. I can’t afford Ferragamo shoes but recognize a look like that as being an office classic. It’s also easy to walk in.
Now that boxer briefs are a thing, I wish that guys appreciated how obvs their VPL is. It’s just so much easier to commit fashion crimes as a woman (did any man ever leave the house in something too sheer for the office?).
The number I’ve times I’ve seen my male boss’s nipples through his white dress shirts suggests to me that the answer is yes, but there are no consequences for it.
Thanks for the advice Grandma.
OP, I guarantee you, these women DGAF what you think. And, rightfully, nobody else does either!
So you contradict yourself (try not to dress young and short, but don’t wear heels) and suggest women to not wear age and office appropriate utilitarian accessories. I am so sorry that the misogyny has been ingrained in you so much that you think this is appropriate. Just because your 10 yr old dresses office appropriate (kind of weird imo but whatever) doesn’t mean the women in your office dress like 10 yr olds.
Honestly, you’re borderline creeper and you remind me of those women that say “well I know she’s 14 but how can you blame him, she looks older”. If you need someone not to dress completely appropriately for the workplace and commute because they uncomfortably remind you of a child, you’re kind of sick (and pedo-like); avoiding weird feelings, eh?
Wow, this comment takes it way too far. Settle down.
Logo on a backpack??? Oh NOOOOOOO!!!!
One other thing: casual dress has blurred the distinction b/c Managing Directors and the people who push the mail cart around. In some ways this is great. I’m sure the Managing Directors are happy and more comfy in cords and denim. But if you are striving to move up and be identified as a go-getter, it used to be easier b/c wearing a suit telegraphed who you were and who you wanted to be and what you wanted to be seen as.
I can dress like a slob b/c I’m very senior and I set my schedule. I usually don’t though, but I don’t worry about image when I do — people know I’m coming off of a redeye or things are just crazy. In a bad economy or where I ran into clients all the time, I’d sharpen up my look just b/c looking the part, rightly or wrongly, is something that I feel clients expect.
Worry about yourself
Seriously, just stop. You’re not doing yourself any favors here, no one here agrees with you, go away.
this entire comment says “let’s reward people for knowing how to dress well”, but I am sure you would agree that the quality of someone’s work and their skill set should be most relevant for their promotion?
Anon for This
Actually some of the posters do agree with her. I would hazard a guess they are the older posters (i.e. the same age as your bosses). We just don’t want to get jumped all over by people in their 20’s who are going to ignore us anyway because we are “grandma”
I once tried to offer clothing advice to a younger colleague who was 100% hurting her career with her choices and got jumped all over. Never again. As an aside, she later quit because she could not make her hours when senior (mostly male) attorneys would not give her assignments that resulted in her going to court or interacting with clients. Eventually (at least in law) you outgrow doc review and need to be able to represent your firm and your clients in public. And guess what – those people don’t really know your work or skill set either and will absolutely judge you for dressing like a teenager.
Dude you just described the appearance of any random person between 8 and 50 – except for the dropped waist, it’s out of style please get your daughter better clothes.
I think this is a “you” complex that you associate hair down, round toe shoes and a company logo(!!! kids don’t work for companies dumbo) with a 10 yr old.
Your comparison is weird, stop pretending like your 90. Next thing you know you’ll be pearls clutching about no pantyhose at church and A-line skirts.
I’m 33 and pretty much fit this bill walking into work. Backpack, hair in a loose knot, infinity scarf and flats. It is rainy today so I plan on putting myself together in the office rather than ruining my suede shoes.
Happy to hear that a $550 heel would solve my problem….but I probably would not wear them in the rain either.
I am so so so sick of it being okay to shame shortness. It is no more acceptable than fat shaming or any other type of shaming. Just stop. Congrats on your tall 10 year old.
My heavens, this generation is refusing to ruin their feet with heels and their shoulders with heavy purses, and instead opting for sensible shoes and backpacks that properly center a load! What is the world coming to?
Worry about yourself
It’s givin’ me the vaypuhs! My stars! Jimmy, fetch the smellin’ salts!
Honestly, I can see why you’d judge these women because the look truly doesn’t align with previous expectations for work attire. It’s fair to make that observation.
However, I have to say that I LOVE seeing women dressed in practical, comfortable clothes for work. You might be horrified when you see them, but I’m horrified when I see women wearing three-inch pumps on the subway and carrying a professional purse that can’t even fit their lunch inside and wearing so much makeup that it’s clear it took a long time to get ready. These women are unable to run for the subway or have any freedom of movement. When I see women wearing a backpack (and no other bags) with a loose hairstyle and comfortable shoes, it makes my heart sing to know that the trend is finally turning towards comfort and practicality, which I think can only impact work positively as well as help the finances and future health of the employees.
It’s also unfortunately the new reality of many workplaces to HAVE to worry about freedom of movement. Who wants to be caught wearing sky-high heels during an active shooter situation?
Yes! I love that flats are currently more chic than heels, and that block heels are more on trend than stilettos. What’s next, pockets?! (Please say pockets are next)
Pockets are next.
Keep hope alive.
I’m sorry that folks piled on to your comment, OP. I see where you are coming from (assuming best intentions – you want to gently suggest that women dress in professional attire and think they would get taken more seriously, is this a fair summary of your point?).
But I agree with the above Anon poster who is happy that standards for work have changed, and that it’s increasingly becoming ok for women to be comfortable at work.
If your comment included, for instance, see through leggings I would agree with considering them unprofessional. I see some folks at my workplace wear athleisure leggings with those see through patches that go down the side of the leg and I dont think it looks professional.
But the items you mention (backpack, knit skirt, flats) are really ok. Yes, standards are changing but mandating that women wear heels and carry un-ergonomic bags with their laptops when men can wear pants, low shoes and still be considered professional is a double standard I don’t care to enforce.
Even the emphasis on loose hair is a good thing – for years women have had to set and iron and blowout their hair and a more natural look being accepted is a thing to celebrate. Maybe 10 year olds with long flowy hair maybe need to tie it up at times to avoid it getting in the way of their sports or school activities. But for grown adults – lets leave it to them.
Yea but none of the things op mentioned are unprofessional. A skirt. Loose hair. Round toe flats. None of these are unprofessional or inappropriate.
Anon for This
None of them taken separately are unprofessional – but the shortish skater dress, round toe flats, loose hair and backpack taken together read young, which reads inexperienced.
Look I wear flats every day (heels hurt!) but a pointy-toe shoe reads as more professional than a round toe, especially with a fuller skirt. Add that to being short/looking young and people are going to treat you like a newbie. Is it fair that short people get treated differently? No. It is also not fair that overweight people (me!), people with grey hair (also me!), etc. are treated differently. But I live and work in the real world and the real world is not fair. (Come see me when you hit 50 and realize that you are essentially invisible in many contexts.)
And sometimes it is painful as an older woman watching younger co-workers damage their chances. I want them to succeed. And when they are older they can make the rules and make the assumptions. But right now, that is my generation. And I know the local judges, my clients and my opposing counsel better than you do.
Worry about yourself
Anon for This, I get where you’re coming from, I saw your other comment and I agree it can be frustrating when someone you know sabotages their career. That said, the OP in this thread doesn’t know these women she’s talking about; she doesn’t manage them, she doesn’t work with them, she doesn’t interact with them and it’s unlikely she will decide the fate of any of their careers at any point, she doesn’t even really know what specifically they do, she just knows they work at a Big 4 firm in her building. All that said, I don’t think she gets to comment on whether they’re dressed properly for work, and if it turns out they do need to dress better, most of them will figure that out soon enough, or a trusted female peer will kindly tell them they need to improve their work wardrobes if they want to get ahead. OP speculated that these women are entry level hires and interns, and if that’s true they have plenty of time to up their dress and shoe game before they need to worry about stunting their professional growth. Stop acting like OP is doing someone a favor here, and also stop suggesting that people who disagree with her don’t dress professionally.
To be clear, I don’t disagree that there are women who aren’t dressing the part at work and it will hurt them, but there are people who are in a position to correct that in a kind, constructive manner, and there are people who only see them in the lobby and really need to mind their own business.
My law office has gone from business to business casual to just casual. You may be advising with good intentions but based on the wrong dress code.
I mean…that’s what people who work in entry level positions at Big 4 accounting firms look like. So basically they are dressed appropriately for their offices, so good for them!
I’m 5′ 2-1/2″.
So Ferragamo heels will help me when I have to climb the damn shelves at the grocery store to get that one thing I need that is ALWAYS on the top shelf and ALWAYS out of reach?
Who’da thunk it?
(insert eyeroll so extreme I just saw my brains here)
Maybe you should stop being such a ridiculously judgmental person instead.
Gorgeous dress. Just bought it.
I recently bought a Tahari dress off TJMaxx.com and I really, really like it. The website is a pain but if you have a bit more time than money, you can find something good.
I plan to tell my husband this evening that I want a separation. We have a 3 year old and a 10 month old. I would like to suggest the arrangements but don’t know what is the best way to handle this. My two points of confusion are 1) physical location and 2) time with kids.
For physical location, I’d like to stay in the house and ask him to leave, but I’m sure he won’t. The house has toddler room and baby’s nursery all optimally set up, and I’d like to disrupt their lives as little as possible. But in the event of a possibly inevitable divorce, I can’t afford to keep the house on just my own salary. Would it be better to move into my own smaller house and take the kids with me?
For time with kids, my number one concern is that I don’t want to make any arrangements in the separation that decrease my standing for custody. He’s a horrible terrible husband but a good enough dad, so I’m not worried about them being with him or even trying to minimize his time with them. I just don’t want to agree to anything that jeopardizes my custody status later. Frankly, I think he needs days in a row of time with them when I’m not there to do every single g.d. thing (um can you tell why we’re separating?). Conversely, I don’t want to create a setup where he has them for a week, and then I have them for a week, because while that would be a welcome temporary break, I think I would be really brokenhearted to only have them every other week permanently.
I would welcome any advice on those two issues and any other separation with kids advice. Thanks hive.
I don’t know the answer, but consider whether what you are proposing would be something fair if it were proposed to you.
Also, most states have fit parents share joint legal / physical custody. Mom usually has primary physical custody, but it’s not automatic, especially if Dad wants it too.
Google “custody visitation schedule” plus your state. My state, Illinois, doesn’t have a default schedule but will very often use the traditional “one night each week plus every other weekend” and alternating holidays. Also talk to a divorce lawyer and they can give you a sense of what is likely to happen in your case, particularly with a spouse who travels heavily.
I would personally recommend talking to a divorce lawyer before you tell him you want to separate. I think there are quite a few steps you might want to take to protect yourself before you share this piece of news. I’m sorry you’re going through this – that can’t be easy.
This times a million. Know your rights. Expect him to lawyer up.
Get your ducks in a row, including a financial war chest, before you drop it on him. You need to have a firm plan that you will then execute the very minute you tell him.
A friend who did a trial separation with little kids handled it this way- the kids stayed at the house full time and the parents swapped out who was with them. The non-resident parent would stay at a friends, be away on business travel or at a hotel (for a while, they kept an extended stay hotel room and traded off). Now that may not work long term, but it is one option to get some space from each other quickly without having someone formally moving out.
It is called nesting. Ultimately pretty expensive unless you can share the “alternative space” with your soon to be ex. I think studies show it is easier on the kids though. Agree with Senior Attorney to get an attorney and know your plan before you drop the news.
Talk to your lawyer about your rights with respect to the house – you may not want to give it up as a homestead if he is required to give it to you in the divorce, and child support and alimony payments may be enough to keep the home on one salary.
With respect to custody, don’t do or change anything right now. Just work it out as you go along and a real custody plan will be put in place with the best interests of the children, not you, in mind.
As far as the future, one week on one week off seems sad but you’ll get used to it, will need the break after solo parenting, and it gives your kids a real chance to spend time with their father. The every other weekend thing he might as well be a visitor in their lives.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. If you’re concerned about things in the event of a divorce, I’d say now is the time to contact a divorce attorney and make sure you are covering your bases.
You do not have a greater right to your children than your husband does. It is utterly heartless to think only of your own difficulties in not seeing them every day and not even consider that he would be equally as hurt. (Actually, he would be more hurt: you’re the one initiating the divorce.)
Then again, I was raised by my dad and find the “mommy needs the kids” attitude to be sexist and ridic.
Pretty sure this is the same poster who posted earlier in the week that her DH constantly travels for work and then takes multiday golfing trips for fun when he’s supposed to have family time at home. If he has them two days a week, that’s probably more time than he sees them now.
Yes, this. A friend’s wife filed for divorce and he only gets the kids every other weekend. I can’t get over the unfairness of it all. His ex-wife fell in love with someone else and left my friend, which is obviously her choice, but I don’t see why he should get less than 50% custody of his kids – if anything I think he should get more because the divorce was not his choice and he’s a wonderful dad. It makes me so sad, for him and for the kids.
It doesn’t matter who filed for divorce – it’s what in the best interest of the kids. Nobody deserves more time with the kids because their partner had an affair. Focus on the kids.
Having an affair and breaking up a marriage with your children’s other parent hardly seem like focusing on the kids… though I guess there’s probably another side to the story.
Flip it around. Imagine that a man who had an affair got primary custody because it was in his kids’ “best interests.” Absent some showing that his wife was a bad mom, we would all think it unjust to both mother and children.
Same thing here. We don’t have to applaud a situation just because the woman got what she wanted to. Having an affair and nuking your marriage doesn’t just affect you; it affects the kids, and shows a startling disregard for their well-being.
You need to talk to a divorce lawyer before you do anything.
+1. Talk to a divorce attorney before you ask for a separation so that you do weaken your position going forward. An attorney can also tell you other issues that you need to consider before you ask for a separation.
Best of luck to you!
Oops! *don’t weaken
“I think I would be really brokenhearted to only have them every other week permanently.”
Sorry to break it to you, but this is the reality of divorce. Most (all?) states default to 50-50 custody unless one parent relinquishes custody or there’s something like abuse that’s provable. Absent abuse, you have to expect you will only have your kids half the time if you file for divorce. If he’s a good dad and wants 50% custody, he WILL get them every other week. Several women I know have stayed in ok-but-less-than-great marriages for this reason.
Yes, my mom stayed with my dad for my childhood for this reason (so my sisters and I would never be left alone with a cruel narcissist who knew how to stay on the right side of the “provable abuse” line). I hate that things work this way, but some pretty rotten dads get custody if they jump through the right hoops.
Not really at all though. Joint custody yes. But there’s no reason it has to be one whole week on one off.
There are lots of 50-50 custody schedules that are more developmentally appropriate for kids that age than week-on/week-off. Given that you have a 10 month old, I would start with a 2-2-3. In a year or so, I’d think about transitioning to a 2-2-5-5, which gives each of you two consistent weeknights each week (good for scheduling extracurriculars, and generally easier to plan around).
OP, I am so sorry you are going through this.
Two sets of my neighbours have done really well through this. Obviously YMMV. Both families had two kids each. In both, the women left the family home and rented places in the same neighbourhood, one on the same street so that the kids could easily go back and forth forgotten items and no school change would be required. The still do 3/3/2/2 schedules so that one does not get all the weekends. Having seen it in action, it has worked out well and both men have become exponentially better fathers and manage fine on their own (and in these cases the women had some of the same complaints you seem to have).
Best of luck to you, friend. It can all work out well.
Those schedules are not always easy on the kids though. My parents divorced when I was three and started with a 2/2 schedule (they lived a mile apart from each other). It was really tough on me especially because it was hard to figure out whose house I would be at for events more than a couple weeks out, and my parents were so hostile to each other that they wouldn’t take me to an event that the other one had set up. I moved to a 3/4/4/3 schedule around third or fourth grade with predictable days and it was much better.
Bottom line is that the parents have to be good co-parents no matter what happens between them.
I’m sorry. This is so tough. Do you have a divorce attorney. I think you should get some advice before you take this step. I know you want to tell your husband tonight but it would be better to tell him when you already have a plan. Very importantly, get copies of all bank, retirement, savings etc statements now because the #1 thing angry spouses (husbands mostly) do is try to start hiding money.
Chiming in again to say yes, please heed this advice!
Is this a troll? If you file for divorce, you will only have your kids every other week. That’s how it works. And if he’s a good, dad you shouldn’t want to deprive him of custody. It’s important for kids to have equal time with both parents, unless one of them is not a fit parent.
Why are you being like this. There are thousands of different custody arrangements. 7 on 7 off is just one.
I suspect you are the tr0ll.
The schedule of week on, week off is just one arrangement. But she’s acting like she’s going to get majority custody and that’s not the norm, especially once the kids are past the baby age. 50-50 is standard and it seems really naive to assume she’ll get her kids almost all the time (and frankly, cruel to the dad to want to block him from 50-50, since she acknowledges he’s a good dad).
This is the dad who travels 4 days per week for work and goes golfing with friends 3 out of every 4 weekends while his wife works full time. If he’s only a ‘good dad’ a max of 3 days per month when he’s around, I don’t why that should translate to 50% physical custody. He’s never shown an interest in it.
If he’s really home that little, part of me wonders if they could handle one of those modern arrangements where the couple splits but continues to raise the kids in a single home.
But that isn’t her decision to make. This is a legal analysis, not Mommy Knows Best. And he has legal rights.
Anon in the South
Depends on the state. In my state, even recent caselaw states joint custody is not preferred and only to be used in extraordinary circumstances. Anything that goes to court is likely not getting joint custody. Obviously, people creatively address custody in hundreds of different ways in an agreement.
Sorry for any confusion, and I’m not a troll, I just meant I wouldn’t want weekly stretches, I’d rather do 3/3/2/2 like mentioned above. I said I don’t want to deprive him of custody, in my original post. I said he’s a good dad and that I am not trying to limit their time with him. I just meant I’d like for it to be in smaller chunks long term. The troll accusation is a little hurtful when people come here with genuine questions.
My ex had 50/50 physical and legal custody of his son from the time the child was ~6 months. A week on/week off doesn’t really work for very small children, it’s just too much time away from each parent. They did every other day when he was very small. That worked until he started potty training – he would get really confused who was picking him up every day, and got confused about the bathroom situation at night. They moved to 3/4 schedule when he was almost 3 (and still not potty trained). All the potty training issues disappeared and the schedule worked really well while he was in daycare. The daycare was good about allowing them to drop off a big bag of clothes/toys on tradeoff days so they didn’t have to meet separately to exchange the kid. They moved to a week on/week off when he started school.
My sister did every other day with her ex when my nephew was really young. They read about little kids being affected by not seeing a parent for more than 48 hours so even though it was a pain for them, they stuck to it. Then as he got older, they changed the schedule but it remained 50/50 custody.
You should absolutely talk to a divorce attorney, but I’m chiming in to let you know of an option that worked in my family. It’s going to be tough but it sounds like divorce is the right decision for your family and my thoughts are with you.
Have you ever done family law? 7 on and 7 off is very very rare in my area for children under the age of 6.
Yes, agreed. I practice in Canada so take this with a grain of salt. But our family courts usually follow research that suggests kids under the age of 6 should not be going an entire week without seeing either parent. Frequent contact is important. I also agree with the other posters who recommend getting to a family lawyer quickly. You don’t want to make any go forward plans or agreements on parenting schedules until you have proper advice. 50/50 parenting is best for some families but not all.
With kids that young most courts will want a primary location, not a week here / week there. But talk to a lawyer in your area since there is some variation between states.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I’m the product of parents who divorced “well” (e.g., didn’t badmouth each other in front of us, met monthly for lunch to ensure they were being consistent with discipline / rules, etc., showed up collectively at events and were civil to one another, etc.) and this was a much healthier situation that to grow up with the seething bitterness and resentment that I assume my mom felt when she was married to a largely-absent alcoholic who spent his time working, golfing, and drinking before he got his sh*t together post-divorce and became a decent p/t dad.
Strongly recommend consulting a lawyer prior to announcing separation. Particularly if your finances are blended.
Begin as you mean to go on. What happens during separation can set the tone for final arrangements. One week on and one week off would be very unusual for children so young. One weekday from after work to bedtime and one weekend day would be more typical.
anon for this
You should talk to a lawyer about this so you understand the law in your state, how physical and legal custody will be determined, etc. Candidly, even if you have a low-conflict marriage now, as soon as you are physically separated and are trying to negotiate your kids’ new lives, there are pretty decent odds things will get high-conflict very quickly. It’s easy to make mistakes at this stage that can have a prejudicial effect on your rights later, and it’s worth sitting down and getting a sense from someone who is licensed in your state as to how those decisions will be made.
If you haven’t already talked to a divorce lawyer it is irresponsible to have this conversation. You need to protect yourself and your kids and that means getting competent legal advice. Wait.
Don’t do it. You had 2 kids with this man, one just 10 months ago. Now you’re leaving him? You need to put the kids first. You made this mess, now you have to live with the consequences. Unless he’s violent, you need to suck it up and stay for the kids sake. They need both parents. All you have to do is be polite to him, for the kids sake
JC, this is terrible advice. Do not follow.
Did you use the way back machine this morning? Perhaps to 1950? Let me welcome you back to the current year, 2018, in which many people believe children turn out fine with divorced, but happier, parents.
This is terrible advice. Anonymous at 2:28, I don’t know what kind of issues you are dealing with from your childhood or in your adult life, but don’t put your stuff on other people. Sticking out a bad marriage to a neglectful narcissist will not produce happy kids.
The alternative is leaving the kids 50% of the time with a neglectful narcissist. When parents divorce between one parent is willing to abandon a sick child in daycare, I tend to think the children would be better off if they were 100% in the custody of the parent who cares about them.
Elizabeth Warren (not really) rant
I was trying to explain to my husband that Harvard usually would never hire professors with a J.D. from Rutgers (they probably wouldn’t ever hire most Harvard J.D. grads to be professors there, much less grant them tenure). He totally does not get it (bless his heart) — he thinks that all law degrees are basically the same. And why couldn’t a Rutgers grad get hired at Harvard? I wish so hard that it were true, but totally does not get the snobbishness that is law (much less law professing). [Like he thinks that I could get a professor job since I teach a lot of CLEs and I am really trying to explain why my T50 J.D. absolutely will not cut it, maybe than as some sort of poorly-paid adjunct.]
Ugh — this profession is like junior high — if your shoes/bag/etc. aren’t the right brand, forget about it.
Also, NJ native here, so not ragging on Rutgers at all — it is a great school. The point is that it is one of the 99.9% of schools that I get Harvard Law doesn’t ever hire from.
Why does it matter if your husband gets it or not? Are you trying to be a professor and he is giving you a hard time about why you can’t get a job at Harvard?
Off the top of my head, every single Harvard Law professor, except for Warren (and perhaps any adjuncts) attended top 10 law schools.
The snobbishness is because of law being overcrowded (so you can judge on dumb stuff and still have more than enough available talent) and not having any ways of weeding out the people who aren’t any good (very few law schools fail people; most grade inflate). So we let law school admissions committees tell us who is good.
Speaking of her, I just want to say how frustrated I am with Elizabeth Warren (as a liberal). This whole DNA thing is beyond ridiculous and she’s stooping to Trump’s level and just making herself look goofy. What happened to “when they go low, we go high”? Can Michelle Obama please run for President? Sigh. I just really can’t stand Elizabeth Warren and Bernie and they are sadly the Dem frontrunners in 2020.
Ugh, agreed. Dislike both of them, and am very concerned about the circus that will ensue if Warren is the Democratic nominee.
I also dislike Warren and Bernie, so having them BOTH run is a good thing – they appeal to the same groups and would likely split that group’s vote. It’s worse if only one runs.
Good point. I hope they split their base’s vote and Joe Biden prevails.
I would take almost anyone over Biden. We don’t need another out of touch old white man running this country
He’s not out of touch, and he’s by far the Dems’ best shot at beating Trump. Americans are really freaking racist and sexist, as we learned in 2016. You can say Hillary was not a great candidate, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, but there was definitely sexism involved. I straight up heard people say they wouldn’t vote for a woman. And Biden appeals to moderate Rs who don’t like Trump but generally like conservative politics, as well as that traditionally-Dem but disillusioned rural white voter that Trump captured in 2016. I believe if it were Biden vs Trump, it would be one of the biggest landslides of all time. I don’t think Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris or Cory Booker can beat him, and I believe it’d be much, much closer if it were Bernie, because his far left politics would put off so many moderates.
Yeah, Warren really shot herself in the foot here. Ugh.
I have no idea who to vote for in the MA state senate race. I HATE HER. But, I can’t comprehend voting for someone that aligns with Trump. I’m republican-leaning, registered independent. If it were a moderate republican running against her or at least someone who pretended to hate Trump, he’d have my vote no questions asked. But she’s god awful and stands for nothing that represents the greater values of this state as a whole, in my opinion. Her agenda is painfully palpable and I.just.can’t. with her… or him. Le sigh.
Oh man, I know. But Diehl’s campaign threw a ton of lawn signs in my yard without my permission (high traffic corner lot in a swing district) and his campaign gave me nonsense about removing them AND has robocalled me mercilessly, so I kind of hate him by default for that.
But his message that Warren isn’t interested in the Senate, she’s in it for the white house is spot on.
I think it’s worth voting for her, just because Rs are doing and will continue to do terrible, Trumpy things with their Senate majority. I get why voting for her is painful though. I’m liberal and find her really hard to take, and I’m generally fairly aligned with her on the issues.
+1 It’s almost annoying when I agree with her because she’s hard to take.
What’s the point of this comment? Do you think she’s really really talented (which, confession, I do), or that she got hired based on racial preference?
I think (?) the OP is trying to make the point that Warren claiming Native American heritage did likely result in advantages for her given that she was hired at Harvard with nontypical credentials. OP, is that right?
I am pretty bothered by how Warren has handled this, especially given the long, long history of white people trying to appropriate Native American ancestry.
Right!? It’s so appropriation-y. The DNA shows she’s at most 1/64 Native American, but even if she had, say, one Native great-grandparent, it still feels off for me for her to claim herself as Native American because she didn’t grow up with that culture or face the systemic oppression that Native Americans do. I mean, Rachel Dolezal is probably at least 1/64 African-American, because many white Americans have some African-American heritage at some point, and people (rightly, imo) freaked about that.
Jezebel has an excellent interview with scholar Kim Tallbear on why this is particularly offensive. The cultural context of this issue really matters, and explains why this is different than someone talking about being 1/64th Irish or whatever.
Hmm my grandmother was either 1/2 or 1/4 American Indian and was raised on the reservation. Her name shows up on the Indian census, not the regular US census, until she moved off the reservation. The census shows her “blood %” which just shows how the US government at the time felt about native people.
This was always an important part of my heritage. Grandma’s life on the reservation was something we always talked about, just like people talk about grandpa being from Italy or whatever in other families. I don’t think you get to decide what is or isn’t appropriation.
That said, I don’t like Warren for lots of reasons and wouldn’t vote for her. But I saw the video and when she and her family members talked about the history of her family and how her father was discouraged from marrying her mother because she was “Indian” I could see how that was an important part of her family culture and identity. Just like in mine.
My great-grandmother wasn’t buried in the Christian cemetery because she was “Indian.” I honestly am not sure she was Native American at all? Her marriage to my great-grandfather was scandalous for other reasons, and I understand you could get around some rules at the time by claiming that “the heathens do things differently.” The story has lived on to encourage suspicion towards the prejudices of church and state in an otherwise fairly old-fashioned family, so I kind of understand how someone would embrace this kind of family history. But I still feel like it’s really cringy for Warren to speak from this background the way she’s done in the past (I haven’t seen her recent comments).
Is it that she was a published author and then went to Harvard? So already semi-famous? Or was that later?
I am a BigLaw equity partner (middle 50% of my class at top 50 law school, so that should give everyone hope) and doubt that my alma mater would hire me for anything, ever. Which is fine; I think I’m not cut out for anything beyond guest-lecturing about practical topics in my area that may be of interest to 3Ls now that actually practicing law may be top of mind.
“doubt that my alma mater would hire me for anything, ever”
This. I was a bad law student (ADHD, disinterested in the subjects I chose), but I’d like to think I’m at least a passably okay lawyer! Practising law is very different from academia.
I had no idea she went to Rutgers!! Amazing! Totally agree with you that her “lack of pedigree” would ordinarily never get her a job at Harvard.
NJ native also – Rutgers is a good school?? LOL. It’s where you go when you can’t get in anywhere else and/or your parents can’t pony up the cash at all. Never met an impressive Rutgers grad and TBH it’s a bit too “mixed” looking in the last 10-20 years.
Go away racist tr0ll
Seriously don’t you have anything better to do, you pathetic scumbag?
Seriously. I’m still in mod every time I post (even when I put in an email address), and stuff like Anon@10:57 gets through?
What a gross comment. Go away.
Yeah, this troll isn’t even trolling well. It’s an obvious post to try to instigate. He must be new since trolls usually get little to no traction on this site. Are you Russian by any chance?
Quit making my state look bad, you poser
Ha — the biggest fanciest house in the neighborhood next to mine has a big TCU flag flying on game days. And the next fanciest house is owned by Clemson alums. Ain’t nothing wrong with State U grads (and I’m sure these people aren’t crying in their beer over not being Harvard material).
Go Tigers!! :)
Most state schools will have a lot of first gen because with limited guidance on how to do college, you just apply to your state school; and often if you’re a top student, you can get a full ride or very significant merit money which tends to be important if your parents can’t “pony up”?! And why does it look how it does? NJ has the highest concentration of immigrants of any state. Why would you expect the state flagship u population to look different than the state population overall? Let me guess because “they” aren’t supppsed to go to college??
“limited guidance on how to do college”
I had plenty of guidance. Still went to a state school (not even the flagship – gasp!) and it has not affected my career trajectory a bit. Not law though, so obviously mileage varies based on career path.
Brunette Elle Woods
Such a rude comment! I applied to one college, Rutgers. No everyone can afford a fancy private school and I’d rather go to Rutgers or even a community college than be so smug and nasty about it.
I don’t get your point of this rant. You probably didn’t mean to imply that Senator Warren was a diversity hire.
I’m an HLS grad. It’s rare, but it does happen. Here’s how it happened for Warren: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html
Honest question — does Harvard teach practical lawyering skills? [Or is it: you’re smart enough to get in here, you can figure out what you need to once you are working.] I have worked with one grad who didn’t get certificates of service at all (like it was a foreign concept), one M&A attorney who is fantastic, one second-career regulatory attorney who is great (in a field that is pretty obscure), and one litigator who only wanted to work on Important Cases.
I know it is a school that produces a lot of law professors and judges, but does it leave you equipped to draft wills (I know state law is not s*xy, but it is where we get property rights from, even if we work on largely federal law matters) or other things that lawyers actually do?
HLS is a big school so there are lots of classes to choose from. You can choose to take only super cerebral non-practical classes, or there are also tons of opportunities to take clinics that provide practical lawyering instruction and experience. I don’t think HLS is really any different than other top law schools in that respect.
I didn’t go to Harvard, but they have a lot of clinics where you can get practical lawyering skills. Most law schools do, so I don’t think Harvard is unique in that regard, but I do think there are lots of opportunities for hands-on stuff.
No law school does. I went to Penn and while you could avail yourself of clinics, it was your choice – not required. Suspect Harvard is the same.
What? No law school teaches you to do a cert of service. What are you talking about?
Can’t get past the paywall, but is that E. Warren as a brunette? And egads, but my mom used to have that outfit.
I read that article the other day. It’s a good one.
Is there any tax benefit to putting after-tax money into a non-Roth IRA vs. just putting it into a regular investment account? This would be on top of maxing out my 401K. I see I have an option to put another 5K or so into an IRA every year, but it’s after-tax money already, so I don’t really see the difference between doing that and putting it into a regular account that I’m also using to invest for retirement. They’ll both be taxed on the gains when I withdraw the money at retirement, right?
If you put after-tax money in a traditional IRA, then you get a deduction on your taxes for the tax year in which you contribute (the deadline to contribute is April 15, when you file taxes for that tax year). So you get a tax benefit for contributing to your traditional IRA, even if it happens with after-tax money. And then, yes, the distributions from the trad IRA are taxed at the income rate.
If you invest the after tax money, you get taxed at the cap gains rate (short or long, depending on time invested). If you withdraw at retirement it’s probably the long-term rate, which is less than the income tax rate (at least now). The benefit there, is that if you wanted to you are not limited to withdrawing from the investment (non-retirement account) if you needed to before age 59 1/2.
I’d go with a regular taxable brokerage account over a non deductible IRA. When you go to withdraw money in a brokerage account, it’s only going to be capital gains rate (most certainly long term unless retirement is next year for you); non deductible IRAs sure you get tax deferred growth now but you pay the ordinary income tax rate on that growth when you withdraw.
Based on your comment about after tax money, I assume that you are above the phase-out for deducting the amount contributed to a traditional IRA. Given that, you can put the money in to a traditional IRA and then later that same year roll it over to a Roth IRA. This is know as a backdoor Roth, if you want to google to learn more.
(To the best of my knowledge, this option was not impacted by the Republicans’ tax bill. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me)
Backdoor ROTH Is a Benefit
If you plan allows, you can contribute to a ROTH even if you do not meet traditional income requirements (i.e., you make too much). If you plan permits, you can (1) make after-tax contributions to your 401K and then (2) convert your after-tax conversion to a Roth.
This is known as a back-door Roth and the benefit it that you are not taxed on the growth.
You will have to pay taxes on the growth before the conversion, and most plans only allow a coversion 1x per year, but if you contribute above the 401k limit it will most likely be towards the end of the year so there will not be much time between the contribution and the conversion and therefore not much growth to pay interest on.
You guys, why is everything so ugly right now?
I went to a Nordstrom in a mall last night on my way home from work to return something. After the return, I breezed through the women’s section. Yuck. Sad droopy cardigans, floral polyester blouses, and pants of all shapes but mostly jeans and black pants. No skirts. Few dresses. Yuck.
Also, brick and mortar is definitely dying. I realize it was 7:30 on a school night but I shouldn’t have been the only person shopping in the women’s department. (Though with those depressing duds, I can see why.)
I have recently become acquainted with the online versions of Banana Republic Factory and also Ann Taylor Factory. I really like all their stuff, especially BRF – this is not formal business wear, but I think their things work well for business casual and below. Frankly, I’ve never really found Nordstrom appealing for anything but shoes.
They do have B&M stores, primarily at outlet malls, so you need to be comfortable with ordering online. But check out this dress at ATF:
I tried it on yesterday and I think it’s quite nice, although will probably wait and see if they have a better sale. It’s lined and has a nice weight to it. Sleeveless, yes, but I am a cardigan addict, so that’s not a problem for me.
OMG I also just discovered ATF online (is it new, or are we just late to the party?) and immediately dropped over $400 on clothes there, after hating everything in stores for so long! They have a lot of pretty things right now, I think.
I think the online presence is fairly new. And now I’m sorry I told people because all the pretty things will sell out faster!
Honestly, I think the fashion this season is just not great (they really tried to push bell sleeves and it just never took hold because no one wants ketchup on their sleeve) and more bohemian style prints. The best thing to do is to just wait out the season and hope for better.
Am I alone in loving bell sleeves, trumpet sleeves, batwing sleeves, etc? I also like shoulder pads. I need to get some bell sleeves this season, clearly!
Yes, you may be in the minority, but you’ll get some amazing deals on clearance items this year! I’m constantly cold and never wear sleeves that don’t work with a jacket or cardigan.
For work clothing, I find it significantly easier to order stuff online. For some reason that I don’t understand, many stores in my area only seem to carry most of their work-appropriate clothing online. So, shopping in store is often a bust for me.
This. I never shop in store when I need something specific because stores never seem to stock the kind of clothing I need. All of my in-store purchases are impulse buys, but my actual needs are almost always met online.
Nordstrom also has several different “women’s departments’ which in my store at least are on separate floors. They all have very different vibes.
can anyone tell me about cos shoe sizing? i cannot tell if their shes run wide/narrow from the pictures! tia
Aviation & Space Lit ABA CLE - DC
Any other ‘r e t t e s going to the ABA aviation and space litigation CLE in DC Thurs/Fri and want to meet up at the reception or grab a drink outside of that?
Cost cutting tips
I am about to transition to a hopefully better quality of life job–but there is a pay cut. What money-saving tips do you have, other than the typical make your own coffee and lunch? If it matters, I have young kids. Thanks!
Get a budget cell phone carrier. It baffles me that people pay more than twice as much for the big names instead of going with the cheap ones that literally work on the same network.
Google fi, Republic wireless, Cricket, whatever. There are a ton of options. If you’re still paying $100 a month for AT&T (my brother does, for no reason I can fathom), you’re getting hosed.
We pay ~$45 per month for two people on Google fi. Not each, total. We are both very conscious of using wi-fi whenever possible so our data usage is low (less than a gig each), but it is really not hard to do that. We get fantastic coverage all over the world.
Not the OP
We’re considering switching to Google Fi – how did you handle the “only certain phones” thing? Did you have to upgrade/pay for a new phone?
So, they say that but it’s not true. I switched before my husband did (this was a few years ago) and he put my sim card in his iPhone (I think he had a 6S at the time) and I called him on it and it worked. As long as your phone can handle calls over wifi, it should work.
Having said that, we both switched when we wanted new phones anyway. The Google Pixel phones are pretty good phones. We paid for them up front with cash and plan to not upgrade often.
We have Google Fi and have been happy. We’ve been on it for 2 years now. Did the math and it’s cheaper than what we were paying at Verizon even buying a new phone every 2 years at full price.
Take a brutal look at large fixed expenses: rent/mortgage, transportation costs, utilities (including streaming services), activities for kids. Coffees add up (duh), but it’s a lot easier to free up $250/month by nixing a car payment and trading in for a 2001 Honda than by slashing Starbucks.
Also, we almost never eat out. Maybe twice a month, max. Meal planning and cheap foods that can be batch-cooked (soups, chilis, giant pots of pasta) are your friends. Delivery is not a thing in our lives, except in exceptional situations.
Figure out your budget and stick to it. I like You Need a Budget. And read blogs like Mr. Money Moustache and Frugalwoods for a lot more ideas that go beyond killing your Starbucks habit.
+1 million to your first paragraph. I have a significantly lower income that most of my friends, but I worry way less about coffees, lunches out, having a cleaning service, etc. because I bought way less house than I can afford. It takes a looooot of coffee to make up a $1000 mortgage payment difference. Bonus – my house will be paid off sooner and then I can redirect even more money to fun stuff like travel.
YNAB has been a big help while we’re aggressively working on our savings. We’ve switched to Aldi for most of our food purchases and are saving about $120 each month over what we used to spend on groceries.
Unsubscribe from as many online store emails as you can. Less temptation, less impulse buying.
Outsource less. Save takeout/eating out for special occasions. Mow your own lawn (if you have one). Wash your own car (if you drive). Figure out what you can use Dryel for instead of taking it to the dry cleaner. Do your own nails.
Take care of your things. Keep up with maintenance on your home and car (if you own/drive). Hang your clothes up immediately after getting home.
Shop consignment, Facebook marketplace, etc.
Buy less in general. Take clothes and shoes to be repaired instead of throwing them out. Wear things a little longer. When you cook, find substitutes based on what you have on hand. Buy only what you need.
Totally stolen from thefrugalgirl (search the internet for her blog) but takeout date night is a winner for this. A supermarket bottle of wine or six of beer and an order from your local pizzeria, etc. makes for a fun and cheap at home occasion. I discovered this over the summer when my DH was injured and we couldn’t go out in the evenings. Suddenly Friday night was costing $30 vs. $75 or $100 if we had gone out to a restaurant. We also discovered that appliances (in our case the TV and the dryer) can be repaired for $200 or so, vs. replaced for $750. Who knew!
how is this even mind blowing?
One thing that has helped me is to buy quality. Maybe not for the kids, because they grow out of things so fast, but for you and the house.
Buying cheap stuff usually means that the stuff breaks/wears out/looks shabby very quickly. Buying good quality things usually means that they stay nicer looking longer and don’t wear out as fast, and if they break, they can be repaired.
By good quality, I don’t mean designer stuff, although sometimes that can be a good purchase when the stuff is on sale. But good, solid, middle of the road stuff that isn’t the cheapest and isn’t the most expensive. So not the sweater from Target and not the sweater from Neiman Marcus, but the sweater from Land’s End, for example.
It seems counter-intuitive, to spend a little more instead of saving more money, but in the long run, you end up with more money. I will post a link to a quote from Terry Prachett below that sums this up much better than I can put it.
Terry Prachett on why the poor remain poor.
I was raised on a diet of fast food, carbs, canned vegetables, etc. As an adult, I’ve expanded and try to eat healthier. But I’ve realized that I don’t eat many different types of vegetables because I either don’t like them or don’t know how to cook them, and that is something I would like to change. Any suggestions for ways to learn to cook more vegetables? Or other ways to expand and try new ones?
Roast them! I will eat basically any veggie if it’s roasted with olive oil and salt. Also I loved grilled veggies especially peppers. Basically anything except boiling or steaming.
Roasted vegetables are the best!
I get a lot of my creative meal ideas from restaurants. Try an Indian buffet for lunch, then look up the recipes on the Internet. Find a good vegetarian cookbook; the recipes are designed to make veggies very tasty and different.
I love roasting veggies. Broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, squashes (all types), sweet potato, asparagus etc. The oven transforms things into delicious ness. Its hard to mess up. If they aren’t cooked enough keep cooking them, take them out when they are roasted.
You can go really simple: olive oil and salt and pepper or add different seasoning. I sometimes mix harissa in with the broccoli or cauliflower in addition to olive oil and it gives it a great spicy kick.
+1 for roasting veggies. You can roast just about anything. Toss with EVOO + salt/pepper/spices, throw them in the oven for 20-30 minutes on 420 (or until they look/feel done), and you’ve got tasty veggies. I love vegetables and this is largely how I prepare them, especially since it’s so. easy. to make sheet pan meals with veggie + protein and be done with dinner.
Soups are also an easy way to get more veggies in, and they’re hard to mess up. I love (and perhaps more germane to your situation, my veggie-hating carnivorous SO loves) Budget Byte’s sweet potato tortilla soup, Fork Knife Swoon’s lemony kale and white bean soup, and Cookie and Kate’s weeknight veggie chili and veggie black bean soup.
A vegetarian cookbook, especially one that focuses on hearty veggie based meals and sides and not trying to shove soy where meat usually is would be your best bet. I don’t really have a good rec, anyone have a good rec on a vegetarian cookbook?
Deborah Madison’s Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone. There are lots of recipes for hearty veggie based meals that don’t just focus on soy and alt-meat. There’s also an entire chapter where 20+ vegetables are dealt with, in alphabetical order, with tips on how to select, prep, and cook each vegetable, followed by 2-4 recipes for each one. Also, the dressings and sauces in the book are amazing!
I’m not a vegetarian. But when DH and I were learning to cook in our early 20s, we realized we’d probably like vegetables a lot more if we paid as much attention to making them as we did to whatever meat we were cooking. We bought Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone, and it’s one of our most-used cookbooks. We love lots of different veggies now!
Yes! i adore Isa Moskowitz’ Isa Does It, it’s a wonderful and accessible vegan cookbook that largely works for weeknight dinners. Also a fan of Ottolenghi’s Plenty. Both will require a pretty well stocked spice rack, but once you set up your pantry they tend to use their signature spices over and over again.
Easiest and delicious way to cook vegetables is to roast them. Cut up sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower in chunks (I do one vegetable at a time but you can mix if you want), mix with some olive oil and add sea salt and put in the oven at 400 degrees. My kids will each eat 4 carrots (!) when I roast them.
How to cook everything by bittman is a good place to start for someone like you! Because it doesn’t just say ‘roast the squash’ but has a full page instructions on how to roast squash, saute onions, supreme grapefruits, etc. And once you’ve done one recipe, its followed by tweaks on how to make that squash dish but Asian flavored, or maybe different nuts to sub-in for a different kind of dish, etc
Roasting root vegetables and cruciferous vegetables with brushed-on olive oil and sprinkled cracked pepper is one way I expanded my palate. Those veggies are generally bitter, but roasting turns them sweet.
I’ve read that the reason so many Americans hate vegetables is because we all grew up on canned or steamed, which are the ACTUAL WORST ways to eat them. Try fresh, eat the baby kind (it sounds bad out of context but they are usually sweeter), look at rockin’ salads on Pinterest and pick a couple from the ones you like the look of, and the very best way to eat veggies IMHO is to roast them. I roast broccoli by itself once in a while for a green side, or you can make sheet pan dinners – chop up your protein and veggies and cover ’em with a little oil and plenty of spices. You can do fajitas or Asian flavors that way too. Also, STIR FRY. Nom.
What vegetables do you like and how do you like them cooked?
For me I like almost any vegetable roasted. Generally at 400, with olive oil, salt, pepper, 20 minutes. You can try other spices too. Works well with squash, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, Brussels sprouts, anything really.
This is also amazing: https://twosleevers.com/sheet-pan-bhindi-masala/
And this: https://www.homesicktexan.com/2018/09/summer-squash-and-green-chiles.html
Also, a simple tahini sauce is really yummy on winter squashes or carrots — this calls for delicata squash but my favorite way to do it is actually with carrots: https://minimalistbaker.com/delicata-squash-bake-with-tahini-sauce/
Be adventurous when you order! This way, you only have to try it when prepared by a pro, so the vegetable has a chance to make a favourable impression. Also, commit to trying things twice before you decide. I find that I am thrown off by surprising tastes, but if I have a rough expectation of what’s coming, I can decide better if I like it.
Great advice already for how to prepare them. As for how to expand, could you sign up for a CSA or ugly produce box? That way you’re forced to prepare what they sent you, whether it’s kohlrabi or brussels sprouts or plain old potatoes.
Do y’all ever explicitly talk about s*xism at work to male colleagues?
My boss is decent, but he’s a dude. I’m at this meeting and boss is at another, and over slack I noted to him that “Joe” wasn’t someone I fully trust. He said, “Joe is good people.” Wellp, I disagree because Joe pitched the meeting location — the one I’m at right now — to our board of directors by saying “the women there are so hot. bring your dark sunglasses so your wives don’t get mad when you are checking the women out!” …and that sold it because here we are at his proposed location, yay.
More generally, I’m frequently the only woman (or one of two) in the room (among 30-50 people) at these meetings/events and it’s just kinda disheartening, and I notice it, for sure… and I’m sure the men don’t.
Anyway, I feel silly and awkward saying “yeah maybe Joe is good people to you but I don’t trust him and here’s why…”or “did you ever notice that it’s ALL MEN in here?” because it sounds petty and weak to be bothered by this sh*t, and I can and do handle it, but it also seems like, important to the future of this organization not to be like this?
When I have concrete examples like Joe’s skeezeball comments, yes, especially because I guarantee your coworker will start noticing Joe’s skeezeball comments way more now. Pointing out that the room is all men? Not necessarily unless really talking about new hires or workplace diversity because it’s obvious, he can count.
I disagree that it’s obvious–to him. People often do not notice homogeneity at all when it’s homogeneity reflecting their own demo.
I’d keep it simple – more like ‘IDK, not sure he has great judgment or business focus if he’s pitching board meeting locations based on how ‘hot’ women are’.
Joe is obviously s#xist but not sure how that makes him untrustworthy
I’m sure how it makes him untrustworthy. If he’s sexist he’s not going to treat women the same way he treats men. He’s not going to take you as seriously as a colleague, he’s not going to have your back, he’s not going to treat female customers or clients appropriately, he’s not going to give adequate weight to ideas put forth by women. For starters…
Oh, not to mention the fact that he’s putting the company at risk of liability for sexual harassment.
I do talk to my boss about it, but because I’m the most senior female on staff. We have a friendly relationship so sometimes he jokes around that here I go with my lefty politics again but the comments I make do land. Several key things have changed at the company and I’m looking forward to more changes.
I would go to your boss in a heartbeat with that gross comment your coworker made. It’s inappropriate. He’s not going to get fired over it since he’s “good people” but he should be counseled to be more appropriate at work.
OH the twist is that the gross people aren’t employees! Generally, the employees I work with are great. We are a membership organization and he’s a leader in that arena, but we work for him more than he works for us, and basically all the cr@p comes from our members rather than our staff. Maybe that shouldn’t stop me from complaining.
When I took the mandatory 2 hour s3xual harassment training required by the state of California (aren’t you in So Cal? Do you take it every year) it specifically said employers have a responsibility to protect employees from harassment by vendors and others outside the company. The example was a vendor making I appropriate comments to a receptionist. You absolutely have grounds here.
To you, sexism and not trustworthy overlap. But if you’re talking about trustworthiness, it’s not realistic for your boss to read your mind and know you mean sexism.
People go wrong when they halfway talk about things. Either keep it to yourself (not recommended), or just flat-out say that Joe said that and “that is not acceptable nor appropriate in the workplace.” Then stop talking.
Yes. I’ve mentioned to my (male) boss that I find it frustrating that the csuite at my company was all men. He said he agreed with me. And then hired the only woman now on it.
Joe sounds like an @ss. I would respond to the “Joe is good people” comment by just quoting what Joe said. Don’t say “yeah maybe” anything or try to soften it in any way. Just quote him and let the quote stand on its own.
I have been in this situation, the only woman in an exec position. I think you need to pick your battles. Dissing one guy may not have much effect. However, pushing for a more diverse pool of potential hires or advocating for a diverse set of folks to advance will.
I talk to my male boss about this stuff. I’m one of his best employees and my opinion matters to him. I approach it from a recruiting / retention standpoint, which lands better in the current labor market – we need as many great employees as we can hire, and sh*t like that will turn off a lot of female (and decent male) job candidates / clients.
I would have said so much directly. “Joe says sexist things. Those kind of comments like that are alienating to people who don’t think sexism is funny or appropriate. Because he thinks that kind of thing is funny, I don’t entirely trust his judgment and I can’t be the only one who thinks so.”
Thank you — you’ve articulated my thoughts exactly — that’s really helpful.
Gift for Birth Mother
I posted here a couple weeks ago about finding my biological mother. I met her last weekend and it was one of the most amazing days of my life. Her birthday is coming up and I would like to get her a gift but I really have no idea what to get. She wears silver jewelry and wore multiple bracelets to our meeting. I’m not sure if birth stone jewelry would be at all appropriate and she hates her birth stone. She is a casual earthy dresser who wears mostly neutrals. She seems to like most foods. She loves singing. This is the limited information I have thus far. Thoughts on appropriate gifts from a biological daughter you just met?
Pictures of you growing up? That’s what I’d be going for. Or an invitation to dinner/time spent together.
Could you buy her a piece of jewellery with your birth stone if she doesn’t like hers?
Something you created may be meaningful to her. A painting? Handmade jewelry? Embroidered pillow cover? Or a collage of photos of you growing up with captions you added, or in a photo frame that you made/decorated?
Setting up UTMAs for my kids (we already have 529s, this is for them specifically). Anywhere specific that’s good for this type of account? Places to avoid?
It’s primarily going to be birthday money/checks/small inheritance dollars so I’d imagine the balance would stay under $10k for quite some time. They’re really young so they won’t need to be making withdrawls for years.
Most banks can do this easily. There are no tax advantages and it’s an older law (unlike 529s) so it’s been routine for a while (at least the mid 80s). I would just use whatever bank you use for your own accounts.
Unsolicited advice: be very careful not to over fund either the 529 or the UTMA account. In all likelihood it makes more sense for you to open an account in your own name and earmark it for your child. UTMA accounts are turned over to the child’s control quite young (21 in Texas) and most parents wouldn’t be comfortable handing their kids a $10k+ account at age 21. 529s have restrictions about how you can spend it, and things happen/circumstances change. I’m not saying don’t use one, just be cautious about how much you put in it. A financial advisor is a good place to start on that front. Also, I’m not saying not to use UTMA accounts, but I would keep the amount quite small and put significant gifts elsewhere.
Getting it out of your estate is a non-issue unless you are in the tippy top of wealth (at least $11m/couple, though until 2025 it’s $22m/couple). If you are concerned with getting it out of your estate, please consult an estate planner. It is quite simple to set up trusts for each kid to hold annual gifts.
Totally agree. We aren’t funding the UTMAs at all, we are simply putting money that has been given to us by grandparents for the kids specifically NOT for college. FWIW my DH had $20k to his name when he was 18 (inheritance), and managed it just fine (he didn’t put it in an IRA, but he didn’t blow it on drugs and hookers either). The money is specifically for the kids (ideas included “help them if they want to buy a car when they are older, pay for a crazy expensive camp you refuse to send them to, buy them fancy jeans, etc), and not for us to use on their behalf.
We have 2 529s going, and 4 kids. Our plan is to fund approx enough to send each of them to state school in the 529 vehicle and pay out the rest in cash/non 529 savings. This way even if 2/4 don’t go to college, we’re not overfunded. Given that DH and I both have terminal degrees, it’s likely at least one of the 4 will do grad school so we can find a way to spend that money. Worst case, we can save it for grandkids (again, with 4 kids fairly likely we’ll have at least one grandkid that goes to college).
Shopping help needed please! I’m looking for a sweater I’m sure I’ve seen in past seasons but my google fu is failing me- it’s ivory, cashmere, and kind of fitted, hip length with a draped back. Long enough of a drape to make a statement but not so long it presents bra issues. Has anyone seen something similar this season? Thank you!
If your bosses were considering winding up the current business and forming a startup and asked you to come along, what questions would you ask to decide whether or not to stay with them or make a move?
How do you pick glasses?
I’m about 85% sure I need glasses. I have an eye appointment coming up to find out for sure. In the meantime, I’m trying to figure out how on earth someone picks glasses that suit them. I have a heart-shaped face. My eyes are small and deep-set, and my eyebrows are fairly substantial. How does one even make glasses work under those circumstances? I normally wear huge, architectural sunglasses, so that won’t really cross apply.
I just stood there in the store and tried on like 50 pairs until I found some I liked. They vary not just in the size of the lenses but in the width across the frames and all other measurements. You can also ask the people there their opinion — they see a lot of frames and faces and usually have good advice.
+1 – This is where a physical store is helpful. The people in the store can help you judge if the frames are too big for your face (so you need a different size). For style – you just try a bunch on. I assume, that your correction is not extreme (nearsighted/farsighted), since you’ve been operating without, so you’ll be able to see yourself in the mirror fairly easily. I remember trying on frames as a nearsighted person…it was always a little bit of a crapshoot,
Zinni, the very affordable eyeglass company, allows you to upload a pic of your face and virtually try them on. That can at least narrow down the shape and width – although you will need to get you pupillary distance and head measured – I just go to the Walmart eye shop or any eye shop and they’ll do it for free.
+1, a lot of the online glasses sellers have this tool. I found it really useful. Once you have it narrowed down to a couple of pairs, they often ship them to you, you can try them on in person, then you ship them back and they put prescription lenses in the pair of your choice.
Heaven forbid you leave the home to do anything.
Trial and error in the store, BUT … why not contacts?
Contacts aren’t always practical or comfortable.
If she’s only 85% sure she needs glasses she probably doesn’t need them all day, every day. I got glasses at 25 for driving because I can’t see very well at long distances. But I’m 35 now and can still see just fine to walk around, and so I don’t want to wear glasses all day. And constantly taking contacts in and out would be impractical.
And even if you do get contacts, you should have a back-up pair of glasses.
I have a related question – how do you find good deals on designer frames? Is it best to find a pair that suits your face then try to find the same or similar frames online? I’ve tried Warby Parker but most I’ve tried are too uncomfortable for me to wear all day.
I’ve found frames on Amazon, with free return shipping. I’ve used that to try on some styles that I haven’t found elsewhere. Sometimes old models will be cheaper.
I would avoid national chains and find a good local eye wear store (some are attached to the ophthalmologist’s or optician’s office). Try on EVERYTHING and, if you are like me, you’ll hate all but one pair which you will love, but which you never would have tried if you had been too choosy before putting it on your face.
You just try them on. I have a heart shaped face too with wide cheekbones, and really didn’t have a lot of options at my local Lenscrafters – a choice of 2-3 frames by the end from the men’s section. Not sure if that was a fluke but this is a well-trafficked upscale location. Just a warning to the heart-of-face among us!
I once couldn’t even find a single pair of glasses at Lenscrafters in my size. That’s why I recommend locally owned places; it seems like they curate their collections to include something for everyone.
One tip I learned at my last glasses buying venture- put the frames on and take a picture. It gives you a better sense of how the frames work with your face. My eye sight is pretty bad and I couldn’t see well enough with empty frames to get an idea of what the glasses looked like.
Also I am a fan of going to a store and having a consultant help you- I ended up with glasses I love, which I never would have chosen, but the consultant picked for me.
Following-up on the thread about Sunday Riley yesterday, the company has now admitted to faking product reviews, but in doing so they basically said (1) they had to post fake reviews because other companies post fake negative reviews and (2) their fake reviews are just a tiny, tiny fraction of the total reviews for the products so it’s really not that big of a deal. I don’t know what I expected, but I’m finding their response seriously underwhelming and obnoxious.
if they invest company resources into a tiny fraction of their product reviews, making the whole thing inconsequential, that would be a bad business decision. Either they are making bad decisions, or they are lying about the scale of this.
Dang it! I have to admit I really love good genes, but I don’t want to give my money to an unethical company. I guess what I struggle with is are all the companies doing this and only Sunday Riley’s been found out? I still don’t want to give them any money though
I found this article on Vox really interesting and while I don’t condone it, it made me much more critical of Sephora as well for putting pressure on brands to have a high volume of reviews (I also went down the rabbit hole on makeup pricing in another article, and well, wow…)
Can you like the other article on makeup pricing?
I’m not a huge Vox reader but the article I posted above led me to this one. It made me wonder what small brands I could start looking into and purchasing elsewhere, besides Sephora, which I’m already frustrated with because they are always out of stock on what I am looking for.
Anyone else feel like their net worth went up a lot AFTER leaving biglaw (or banking, consulting), despite going to a lower paying job? I kind of assumed biglaw would be my pinnacle financially and was sad to leave (just for that reason – million other reasons to go). Landed in the government, non GS, making junior associate money. Looking at the numbers in recent days with the market sell off and it seems like NW has grown faster in the few years post biglaw than it did during. Anyone else have this happen?
Yes. For me it was investing a fair amount while in biglaw and then the market doing well in the last 3-4 years. Nothing I did personally but it feels “easier” to build on growth that’s already there as opposed to leaving a high salary job and then saying – hmm I’m 35-40, I should invest – which is how lots of people do it.
This makes a lot of sense. First, compound interest is a great thing wrt your 401k so of course your net worth is higher. But also, you make less money but you probably revamped your budget for lower pay and have to spend less to make up for the tasks you had to outsource in big law. There is also a big chance that a lot of your large expenses during big law (saving for a down payment on a home, paying off student loans, buying furniture to set up your house, etc) no longer apply, especially if your student loans are largely gone.
I make less but I also eat at home more, because I am home by dinnertime, so less take out, don’t need a dog walker everyday, use the maid service less frequently and can do a lot of otherwise outsourced tasks.
Student loans are an obvious culprit. But there’s tons of more insidious things. When you don’t have any time/energy to spare, you end up paying more for, like, everything in life.
You buy takeout more often. Waste more groceries. Just plain eat/drink more because you’re up until all hours. You don’t price compare/scour sales for… anything. You upgrade to luxury items because “I deserve it”. You buy more clothes. Dryclean more often. Social outings are solely on weekends so you miss out on free/cheaper things during the week. The list goes on. And that’s without even considering pets and kids.
I haven’t worked in years, need to now. Am living in a new area, so I’d like to do info interviews with key people. Emailed someone I really, really wanted to talk to on Thurs. Called on Mon to ask if she’d gotten it, explained that because I only have gmail, my emails have gone into spam, so I just wanted to make sure it was received, not rush her. She said the person she thought might be able to meet with me had been out, but was back that day, so she’d asked him. I thanked her, repeated to take her time and….within 5 min got an email saying she couldn’t talk to me, they didn’t have any jobs anyway. I had explained in the letter that I wasn’t asking her for a job, wanted to talk about how the field has changed in the last five years (huge, dramatic shifts, so I really don’t know quite how it all fits together in practice).
Is there anything I can do now to try again?
Not with this contact. They have shut you down. Approach other contacts and move on.
Agreed. This ship has sailed.
I agree with the commenter below that you should reach out to people you’ve worked with before, no matter where they are. You say the field has changed drastically in the last 5 years – what happened? I’d reach out (email, don’t call) to a former colleague with a specific ask – “Hey, it’s been a long time since we worked together at Company X and I hope you’re doing well. I’m looking to get back into [field] and wonder how Events A and B have affected the work. Do you have 15 minutes for a phone call?”
No, sorry. Please also reconsider your approach of calling to follow up — with your email requests, you are basically “cold calling” busy people for a favor. Repeatedly reaching out is pushy even if you say otherwise. I’d try LinkedIn messaging instead of gmail if you are worried that your message won’t ever be transmitted.
Wow work on your approach. How long has it been since you’ve worked that you don’t get business etiquette? Emailing a stranger and then calling 4 days later to ask if they got it with a BS email is complicated story branded you as a pushy weirdo. Not surprised she emailed 5 min later to say no. Maybe work with your career services to come up with some form emails for this sort of thing? Ask the advice of people you used to work with even if you’re in a totally different location now – they know you enough to give you the benefit of the doubt more than a stranger.
Nope. You can’t badger people into doing you a favor.
So your request for an informational interview is going to be the lowest priority for a working person. I know that’s hard to hear because it’s a huge deal for you, but you need to reset your expectations and reconsider your approach.
Start from this understanding: you are asking for a favor. Giving you an info interview has essentially no upside for most people. Accept that 50% of people (or more) will ignore the email, 30% will say no, 15% will agree to talk on the phone, 5% will agree to meet. Given that math, informational interviews aren’t very useful for you.
I don’t know how long you’ve been out of the workforce, but I and many working people currently receive literally hundreds of emails in a day. Calling to follow up on the second business day after you sent a non-urgent email asking for a favor does make you look really out of touch. You’re not going to get a lot of latitude for that from someone you don’t know.
Here’s what I would recommend: work the network. Find people that will be more inclined to do you that favor, whether because they know you, know a friend, are fellow alums, etc. Have a trusted, working friend read your emails reaching out to these contacts, and rely on that person for advice on how and when to follow up. Starting reading Ask A Manager to reacquaint yourself with workplace norms. Depending on how long you’ve been out, you will likely find that a lot has changed in terms of job-searching, and she gives very helpful advice.
I know it’s hard – good luck!
Completely agree with the Ask A Manager recommendation– it’s great and very helpful and up to date on current work norms.
Maybe some of us could give you some advice if you are more specific about the field you’re trying to get back into? Feel free to ask.
I also think you should tell anyone and everyone (giant facebook announcement maybe?) that you’re looking to get back into your field and would appreciate it if folks would keep their eyes open for you. You never know who will be in the right place at the right time with an opportunity.
Talk to your college’s career services for strategies and how to do these things.
Consider temping. A lot of agencies offer substantive, well-paid, long-term work, and it’s a good way to get back into the working world.
I’m on the west coast and so always come into the morning post much later than most of you all, but d@mn, today’s is out of control. I just want to go home and get back in bed.
Here’s a should I stay, or should I go? type question:
I’m considering applying for a new job that sounds interesting and more in line where I’d like to take the next step of my career. What I can’t get over is the thought of starting over, benefits wise, if I got the job (or any other new position). I’ve been at my current employer for 13 years (with upward progression) and have accumulated generous vacation time and flexibility that would take me years to earn anywhere else. I’m in higher ed. The pay isn’t awesome, but the formal and informal benefits are fantastic. And at this point in my life, I really need that flexibility and rely on it.
But I am so miserable in my current job on a day-to-day basis, even if the benefits are outstanding. Busy, but bored, is how I’d describe it. Feeling disconnected from the mission. Missing the leadership that used to make this a great job.
I don’t know how to reconcile my day-to-day misery with the fact that leaving would be a giant leap into the unknown, and may not pay off.
If your day-to-day is miserable, I would–at a minimum–explore another option that has presented itself. Just because you apply, interview, whatever doesn’t mean you have to take it. You can ask a lot of questions about benefits before you accept. And, yes, it will still be a jump into the unknown, but it sounds like it’s at least worth considering in a real way.
Ok. I don’t mean to be rude. But what you do is apply, get an offer, negotiate compensation including benefits, and then decide if it’s worth it to you.
Apply! If you get an offer, then you have to make this decision. But there’s no decision to be made without an offer in hand.
You do what all people who are gainfully employed, looking for new work, and not ready to have a nervous breakdown do: job hunt, and only consider or accept jobs that are a distinct improvement on the current job.
Benefits like vacation time are negotiable. You are not stuck forever at one company because you don’t want to start over. If a company wants you, they will match your current benefits.
+1 you don’t start from year zero at a new employer and only get the vacation time of an entry level person. Also, you can negotiate these things. Apply!
You and I are in the same place. I decided that I can’t imagine continuing where I am for years and years, so I need to go. You don’t deserve misery every day and there are so many options out there! The position you apply for now isn’t the only option. Talk to people, see what’s out there, and you’ll find something better. Even just the process of looking has me inspired and excited like I haven’t been in quite some time. Good luck!
Could you also look at internal moves within the organization? My partner is in higher ed and that’s his most likely career path.
My large employer will typically honor whatever vacation accrual rate someone comes in with – if it’s 6 or 8 weeks a year (or whatever) , we’ll match it. We’re not *that* progressive (State gov’t) … I assume other employers do this as well.
And we’re open to discussing what flexibility is required for the right candidate – my team has people completely WFH, a few who come in e/o day, and those there every day. It’s all negotiable for the right candidate. You have nothing to lose by applying and exploring your options. Good luck!