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Thursday’s TPS Report: Basic Silk Dress

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Studio 148 by Lafayette 148 New York Basic Silk DressLadies, this is an insane deal — a $325 dress marked down to $68 (plus free shipping if you spend just a few dollars more). It's a silk dress, it has sleeves and a ladylike length, and it's a pretty red color. Now: is the dress for everyone? Nope. A neckline that high would end up making me look like a linebacker — and while I like an empire waist, not every woman does — but you're never going to find the dress for “every woman” on this deep a discount (particularly of this quality). For the right woman, this dress is a real find, though. Happy Thursday! Studio 148 by Lafayette 148 New York Basic Silk Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)  

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

244 Comments

  1. Anyone have experience with NM-brand cashmere? Last Call has a bunch of sweaters on discount today and tomorrow.

    1. Love It. Soft and has held up extremely well for me. I try to pick up a piece or two when they’re marked down after Xmas every year.

    2. I have a couple of their sweaters and they have held up well for a few years. Very soft and luxurious.

  2. Hey ladies,

    So I went to Sephora yesterday and got a makeover and Color ID. She used a ton of products on me – tinted moisturizer, concealer, powder, blush, bronzer, highlighter, liquid liner, eyeshadow primer, shadow, mascara, and brow powder. Phew! (I bought the tinted moisturizer, concealer, and powder.) It looked great. BUT I did notice that the foundationy stuff comes off if you blow your nose or wipe at it, despite the powder being used to set.

    She also put the tinted moisturizer on with a brush. Is this a thing people do? I am always doing my makeup in a rush with my hands and don’t know where I would keep my brushes if they got dirty with liquid makeup (I only ever use them with powder).

    So I guess my question is, what should I try to use on a daily basis? I have only ever been wearing lipstick and mascara on a daily basis; when I go out at night I use more products, mostly eye stuff. The tinted moisturizer, concealer and powder are FINALLY the right color so I am excited to get them, but am not sure how much I will really use them and whether I should try to use the brush to get that really nice “airbrush finish” (and it did look really nice!).

    1. I use Beauty Blender sponges for tinted moisturizer. It also leaves an amazing finish if you use it right (get it soaking wet, squeeze it out, repeat a couple times, then lightly dry it off with towel or paper towel, then splotch and twist the moisturizer on all over your face– there are videos online and it’s easy once you get the hang of it). I only use TM though for going out at night or for big events (even if this just means a big day at work), unless my skin has broken out particularly badly. I always use concealer (Laura M) and powder (B Minerals).

      1. I loooove the beauty blender. I thought it would be ridiculous, but I tried it, and now I can’t do my make-up without this $30 pink sponge! It seriously leaves a flawless finish. I use it for both concealer and TM (I don’t do foundation).

    2. Get cheap brushes from the drugstore or target – so worth it. Wearing the tinted moisturizer and powder every day shouldn’t be too much of an addition to your morning routine. Save the concealer for special occasions.

    3. I think it’s great to have the proper color for your skin makeup, but I wouldn’t worry about using it every day. I finally found my holy grail foundation a couple years ago, but I only wear it for big events. I’d suggest starting with the powder and concealer alone, and see how you like that. Do you have another moisturizer that you use with SPF? Make sure something has SPF. I’ve never bothered with a brush before, but I know people who swear by it.

      My “usual” face starts with SPF moisturizer and translucent powder. Concealer if I need it, most days mascara, and eyeliner probably half the time. I think starting with the minimum and working up is the best way to see what you like and what fits with your morning routine.

    4. My day to day routine is BB cream, concealer under the eyes, powder, and a swipe of mascara. I save the liquid liner, bronzer, eyeshadow, etc. for important events. The whole routine takes maybe 3-4 minutes, so it’s not a huge commitment, but I feel put together.

    5. Here is my makeup routine: 1) moisturizer with spf 2) Laura Mercier Silk Creme Foundation applied with a Sonia Haschuck (sp?) brush from Target; 3) Physician’s Formula drugstore brand bronzer applied with bronzer brush from Target; 4) Physician’s Formula blush applied with Target brush; 5) Maybelinne eyeshadow (browns / nude palate) applied with Target brush; 5) lipstick, tinted chapstick, or lipgloss. The Target brushes came in a set and were like $30 total – I’ve bought more expensive brushes and I like these (the Sonia brand). They’re a good investment, and I like applying with a brush so I don’t put extra germs on my face. I’ve broken out less since doing so. I keep all of these brushes in a cup on the counter of my sink. And yes, if you blow your nose make up will come off, but it won’t be noticeable! Good luck with your makeup routine. My vote is not to spend too much money if you don’t think you’ll use the products. I splurge on foundation, and the rest is mostly drugstore brands.

      1. Thanks. I am mostly thinking that I would use stuff at work when I get in, so maybe I should get those sponges (or cheap versions) and put them in a ziploc when I am done?

        1. Sounds good. And the beauty of doing it at work is that you can always touch up before leaving for an evening networking event.

      2. Here are the Target brushes I recently bought: http://www.target.com/p/sonia-kashuk-limited-edition-the-fall-brush-up-10-pc-brush-set/-/A-14635387#prodSlot=medium_2_8&term=sonia+brushes

        This is the most affordable and complete set I’ve found. Plus, you know….its pink and make me happy every morning. Tons of brushes for even the makeup obsessed. The super small eyeliner brush is excellent for gel eyeliner and applying eyeshadow as an eyeliner (wet the brush, dip it in eyeshadow, voila eyeliner!).

    6. My makeup is pretty basic: BB cream, undereye concealer, powder to set, eyeliner, neutral shadow, mascara, lipstick. I do it in under 10 min.

      I use my fingers, not a brush, but I wash my hands a lot in the morning and ALWAYS before applying makeup. I don’t want to touch my face after blowdrying my hair when I have product on my hands or if I touch my cat. I like BB cream because it’s moisturizer and SPF and I can’t be bothered with more products. Of course, I’m in the steamy south so I only need moisturizer in the dead of winter.

    7. Funny tinted moisturizer in the summer or foundation in the fall/winter/spring plus concealer are my absolute basics. Cheek color of some kind (powder, or tint, or cream rouge, depending on mood) is also usually a must since I have almost no color naturally. Lipstick and mascara I can easily do without. But my daily routine is: 1) SPF moisturizer; 2) foundation; 3) highlighter (nose, chin, cheeks); 4) cream rouge; 5) translucent powder (with a big, fluffy brush); 6) eye lid primer; 7) eye liner; 8) cream eyeshadow on brow, and light brown or gray or lids (with a small, fluffy brush); 9) mascara; 10) lip balm. For daytime, I only line the outer edge of my upper lid, so for evening, I’ll use a heavier liner, usually a felt tip instead of my daytime smudgy pencil, and line top and bottom, plus an extra coat of mascara, less cheek color, and a more intense eye shadow.

      I use fingers with everything non-powdery. I use brushes for those.

    8. I use a brush for all of my products. I spray them with alcohol and clean them with a tissue after each use, and wash them weekly with a brush shampoo (although when that’s exhausted, I’m switching to baby shampoo, which is cheaper and works just as well, I’m told).

    9. On a daily basis, I use undereye concealer, primer, tinted moisturizer, blush, translucent setting powder and lipstick/lip gloss. Sometimes, I try to do my eyes too, but not every day.

      I use my fingers for everything non-powdery. The rest I use a brush for.

      I do find that within the first hour of my makeup application, if I blow my nose, the setting powder/tinted moisturizer will come off, but after that first hour, it doesn’t seem to.

    10. Diana – congrats on the purchases and finding the right colors! You can totally apply BB cream with your hands. If you feel like experimenting with a brush later on, I’d recommend getting one of those spay cleaners (Sephora’s inhouse brand has one) – you spray the brush and wipe off excess product on a tissue.

      You should use whatever makes you happy… My makeup routine is my me time in the morning but I also enjoy it. If it feels like too much work – don’t force it on yourself :)

  3. So here is something odd. You know when you click on something (like at nordstrom) and then that ad follows you around? I am seeing an ad from nordstrom from something I clicked on at my home computer, which I DID not click on my work computer. And its a really weird thing too its a black lace veil for 500 bucks so I know its not a coincidence.

    1. There are new methods of tracking that are able to “follow” you across devices. Normally they look at your IP address and make “guesses” that multiple devices belong to the same person based on apps installed, activity on the device, etc. Normally, none of this information is tied to your real-world identity (just a bunch of random numbers). It is disconcerting, nevertheless.

      1. Yeah, I believe it’s google related. If you check your gmail at work, that’s why.

    3. It’s called re-marketing. I once looked at Spanx on Zappos, and then there they were at work during a meeting! Hello!

  4. I’m on a quest…a dress with 3/4 sleeves, perhaps knit or ponte, with an a-line or fuller skirt in a colour (preferably jewel tone). I’m a size 8-10 and a little bit straight up and down.

    Anyone have something that they’d like to recommend?

      1. A word of caution about the boatneck dress: I’m returning it because the top doesn’t fit right. I’ve got broad shoulders, a wide ribcage and wear a C cup so YMMV but the top was completely unremarkable. To quote my husband “it looks great from the waist down but I don’t know what’s happening on top”. I bought the patterned faux-wrap in red and am now waiting for a sale to stock up on the solid faux-wraps.

      1. Ooh, those are all nice. A friend is doing some couple-y photos of us to build her portfolio and while I love the casual couple-y photos with sweaters and jeans, they don’t feel like me, you know? Perhaps can dress it down with boots?

      2. That dress is really cute – and woo, pockets. How is the sleeve length? I’m concerned that 3/4 length (and they look on the longish side of 3/4) on a model is going to be an awkward bracelet-y length on 5’2 me.

        1. I think it was solidly 3/4 on me. Honestly, I tried it on once last night and wasn’t concentrating on the sleeve length! Will try it again and let you know.

      3. Oh wow, it looks like a lot of their dresses have pockets. I will need to carefully look at them all.. Do you think these dresses would work as is with tights, or would they need a slip underneath? (To avoid the fabric catching on the tights, if that makes sense)

        1. I have a bunch of their dresses. A few have been clingy but most are find. Some are kind of a slinky synthetic. I have the black dress with the pintucked v-neck and it runs big. The skirt is full. I should have ordered it a size smaller!

    8. I’m also in the market for something like this. I’ve seen things I like at Lands End, Talbots, Boden, and Coldwater Creek. Haven’t made up my mind yet though so I can’t speak to quality of any of those.

    9. I am currently wearing the BR Issa Middleton engagement inpsired dress, which fits into all your wants and loving that I’m sitting in a jewel toned PJ at work.

    10. Have we discussed Dobbin on here before? I LOVE their dresses. They have sleeves, machine washable, nice fabric, great company (the owners will personally answer questions for you if you email them), American-made, under $200 price point…. I really love their dresses. Most of their ponte dresses are shift style, but I think they have a couple of A-Line dresses as well.

      http://www.dobbinclothing.com/shop-now/dresses.html

    11. I just received the Libby dress from Boden yesterday and really like it. 3/4 sleeves, fitted bodice, and full skirt. I got the red, which is VERY red. Thinking of getting the charcoal as well. Waist is somewhat high on me (even in the Tall), but I’m very low-waisted.

    13. Yes! Just found one at Talbots. Very flattering. Just put “ponte” in the search box. Beautiful jewel tones, 3/4 sleeves and flattering

  5. And for my monthly tmi post – THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to the person(s) who recommended drinking vinegar when you feel the first tingle of a UTI. I was due for my third UTI in three months YAY when I grabbed the balsamic vinegar (the only kind I had in the house), mixed it with water and drank down something that tasted NOTHING like the soda it looked like. But it worked. Two days later, I drank down a more watered version just in case. But NO UTI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAPPY RAWR!!!!!!!111

    1. Wow! That’s a good tip, I would never have thought. Read that Apple Cider Vinegar(ACV) can help with poor digestion too. You are supposed to put one teaspoon in a glass of water. I’ve tried and it tastes like water with lime in it….know someone who swears by it.

      1. It’s a flipping miracle. I am so happy not to take antibiotics again, although maybe I should consider probiotics. Apple cider vinegar is the recommended vinegar for this application. I think I did 1/3 vinegar and 2/3 water. It was very strong. But I figured the stronger, the better.

        1. Have you ever tried cranberry pills (available in the vitamin aisle)? I took them for a while after having 2 UTIs fairly close together, and I have not had an infection in 8 years. I stopped taking the pills a long time ago, so who knows if it helped, but at the time it seemed to be quite effective in warding off yet another terrible infection.

        2. I got UTIs so often in my early 20’s that I had a prophylactic dose of antibiotics. I would take just one pill when I felt any indication of one coming on (as prescribed by urologist). I did this for about 3 years and eventually I quit getting UTIs all together…oh WAIT maybe that’s because my lady garden parties declined dramatically since my early 20’s.

          If it gets to that point you should ask about a prophylactic dose.

    3. Godzilla, YAY! It was me who recommended ACV. So glad to hear it helped you. For anyone else interested I highly recommend Braggs. If I feel that “tingle” no matter where I am I stop and take a quick shot of ACV. I was in a LDR forever and I found that it exacerbated the problem going from no s3x to S3X! I was the woman chugging ACV outside deli’s in Brooklyn. Oh well.

      1. You are a lifesaver lady. HIVEFIVE TO YOU!!!!!!!

        (At least having s3x is sorta worth the UTI. I’ve been getting mine after my period finishes, which is totally unavoidable. Thanks ladyparts for making my life super frustration.)

        1. I had chronic UTIs as a kid and teenager. My doctor had me drink cranberry juice every day, and then I would get put on a killer dose of antibiotics when I got a new infection. Fortunately, they seem to have passed with age (along with some other urinary problems). It was just awful!

  6. Early TJ: I recently had a conversation about relationships & marriage with my mum suggesting that I should take care not to “marry down”. I know the term is abit off-putting but I can’t think of another way to describe it. The advise was basically to find an equal–in my case in terms of education (I have a doctorate) and I suppose potential income. She made the point that men have an ego and sometimes it can get in the way–that sometimes a guy can feel somewhat “less than” when the wife is doing better–whether it’s a career accomplishment, income and sometimes socioeconomic status of the family one came from. I happen to come from a culture where it’s somewhat expected that husbands do better than their wives. I know many relationships work despite these differences but at the same time I’ve witnessed the tensions this issue can cause. I’m wondering what others’ experiences are. Whether your education, income and drive/ambition has influenced your dating preferences? I also wonder whether women who marry men who are just as accomplished or as driven as they are, experience greater pressure to “downshift” their goals as opposed to those who have partners that are somewhat less accomplished/ambitious?

    ION: Like the color of the silk dress but the cut is a bit blah for me, I think I’d have to pair it with something a little more interesting.

    1. I think the concept of marrying up or down is a pretty sad, short-sighted way to look at any relationship. My husband and I are in the same profession. He currently makes more than me, but my career track is more ambitious, and we expect that in a few years I will be making more. He is very supportive of the things I do to advance my career. We both have our strengths and weaknesses and bring different things to the relationship financially and otherwise. I expect that we will continue to support each other no matter where our careers take us, whether that’s promotions, lay-offs, unemployment, disability, new career paths or whatever. Up and down has nothing to do with it.

    3. Oh boy. I have many thoughts on this. I’m just going to bulletize them instead of going in depth.
      1. Parents mean well but they have no idea what dating is like for our generation.
      2. Some men do have egos, some men don’t when it comes to “success” between genders.
      3. I have found that men are intimidated by my education level.
      4. I have also found that men are intimidated by my chosen field (engineering).
      5. After dating for so many years with the intention of getting married, I’ve determined that I need a guy who has to be okay with me being a rock star at work, whether he is one or not.
      6. I don’t particularly care about his income level or job/career or post-graduate education (I’m willing to be convinced on the education level though).
      7. Personality and values are way more important.
      8. Need a guy who views marriage/relationship as a partnership, not a competition.

    4. I think everyone who has an ego, male or female, can let it “get in the way.” I am in the same field as my husband, but he has always been *slightly* more successful than I, which drives me nuts. I am extremely competitive, and feel like I’m always struggling to keep up with him. I love him and support him no matter what; my wounded ego is just something that I personally struggle with.

      On a side note, the persistence of these gender stereotypes really, really bothers me. Don’t mean to slight the OP- I know she is just asking what others’ experiences have been – but it upsets me that in 2013, we are still discussing whether women should downplay their achievements etc.

      2. Yes, I agree that it sucks that this still matters for us as women in 2013. I would like to think the world is progressive but I think with certain things old cultural stereotypes still affect the way we think and act

    5. It’s not an issue for us, partly because we got married so young and while we were still in school. Dh has 3 degrees (2 Bachelor & a Masters) and I have a Bachelors & a professional designation. I make more and my profession (accounting) has a much higher earning potential than his (teaching). My family background is white collar middle class, his is blue collar middle class and his mom did much better than his dad professionally.

      Because we face everything in our family life as a team (our family motto is Team Lastname) it really doesn’t matter in our relationship that I work full time and he works part time and is the main care giver for our children. He’s had some negative experiences outside of our family (from random strangers & acquaintances) but it works for us.

    6. Yay! I love this dress, but must go out with the relatives this morning. As for the OP, I agree with your Mom (or MUM)! YAY! My dad say’s the same thing. He alway’s warns me:

      “Ellen, You need to be married, but Do NOT, in any event, EVER dilute the Barshevsky lineage!”

      By this, he mean’s that he does NOT want me marrying down, either genetically or economically. So THAT is WHY I am OVER 30 and Not married. When I told this to the relative’s, they understood, but told me that in BUDAPEST, if there were girls as beautiful as me over 30 who were NOT married, they were probabley either (1) gay; (2) had some sort of STD makeing them undesireable; or (3) did NOT want to have babie’s.

      I told them I was NONE OF THE FORGOEING. I was just liveing out what my dad want’s. For me NOT to settel for a looser that drink’s and does NOT live up to what I have to have in a man; namely: 1) to treat me well; 2) to have a good job; 3) to support me; 4) to want to have children; 5) to want to move to the SUBBURB’s in a house like Rosa and 6) not to cheat on me by haveing sex with other women.

      What is so tough about that you may say? It is, trust me, b/c most men do NOT want all these thing’s. Many good ones are already Married, and they just want to have sex. FOOEY on that, b/c why would I just have sex without marrage and children? These day’s my mom says there are to many pretty younger girls that just will fool around with men and walk away, but that was NEVER me, and that is why I am now faceing a tough time locateing a guy who wants to do the 6 thing’s above. If there are guy’s out there fitteing the bill, I wish they would come forward. YAY!

        1. I am now picturing Ellen in hijab. At least then the Manageing Partner would NOT stare at her.

    7. I see your point, but think your definition of “equal” might be too narrow – by your definition, I’ve technically “married down” (husband only has a bachelor’s, I have my JD, and husband works in a creative field, so I basically earn twice what he does), but my husband is my equal in drive, ambition, and talent at his chosen field (frankly, he’s probably better at his job than I am at mine) – he just happens to be in a field that pays less and requires less education for advancement. He feels satisfied with his work and successful, so I think, for him, that trumps any concerns about the financial side of things. (I do think he’d probably be a lot more sensitive to the money issue if he felt like he wasn’t succeeding, but the money issue would really, at that point, just be a proxy for other issues anyway, and not the real root of the problem.)

      Besides, having the same level of education and *potential* income says nothing at all about your actual income over a lifetime – one of the most financially successful people I know is a general contractor with a GED. One of the least successful people I know has a PhD. You want someone with similar life goals, and the willingness/ability to work to achieve those goals. Sure, things like advanced degrees/working in a higher-income field are decent markers that a guy is somewhat more likely to have your particular values (otherwise why work so hard to get an advanced degree or that fancy finance job?) but the lack of a particular degree/job type doesn’t need to be a deal breaker, and doesn’t always mean the person won’t share your values or be an “equal match” for you.

      2. I completely agree. I think looking for a partner who is your equal in “drive, ambition, and talent” (as you described your husband) is more important than their field or salary.

    8. I think outward achievements are less important than whether that person suits your personality. I have a J.D., my husband has a bachelor’s. I outearn my husband (not by much). My family was more well off than his when we were children. I honestly have never thought of these things as a negative… to be honest, aside from acknowledging them as facts, I never think about these things at all.

      My husband is one of the smartest people I know (he’s smarter than me), has endless curiosity and a desire to learn (he loves Nat Geo when I’d be happy watching Buffy on repeat), and has a drive to excel in his career because he truly enjoys it (rather than just looking for status). I feel like I got the better end of this deal.

      My BFF’s husband has more traditional gender role views. He has said that he wants to outearn my friend, and that he would feel threatened if she were more successful than him. I don’t understand this view at all. And I have another friend who is so ecstatic that she makes more than her fiance that she practically gloats about it, as if she is personally vindicating women everywhere. I also don’t understand this.

      This comes down to personality types. Are you capable of being in a relationship with a person who predicates their self-worth on whether they are “better” (however defined) than you? I think at the end of the day, you have to pick a partner based on whether your personalities mesh well together. For me personally, marrying someone who only felt successful if they were more successful than me would not work. I do not have the personality type or patience to stroke someone’s ego like that. And I would never gloat about my outward markers of success because those things come and go with job changes. About the only thing that someone couldn’t take away from me is my JD, and half the time I don’t even want that.

      1. Totally agree. It’s not about income/potential income/educational level/class or anything like that. What it boils down to is do you have the same values? I can value ambition and being well-educated without having a PhD. I feel like people always look at these superficial markers too much.

      2. “My husband is one of the smartest people I know (he’s smarter than me), has endless curiosity and a desire to learn (he loves Nat Geo when I’d be happy watching Buffy on repeat)”

        That’s so my household! (I have a JD and he has 2 years of college and is a SAHD now. – I figure kid is bound to turn out super-smart, since he tends to leave documentaries about how the earth was formed or the outer reaches of the solar system or something on all day long.)

    9. A co-worker of mine (divorced, shared custody of 2 elementary-age kids) several years ago told me several times that she felt parallel education levels were very important to making a marriage work – she had a BA and worked a good, solid admin job at a university, and he had maybe finished high school at most. She felt this difference caused a lot of problems in their raising of their kids and especially caused issues after the divorce.
      Thinking about it, though, I think the essential thing is not the level of formal education you’ve each achieved, but your values about education. She was very pro-education and saw it as the way forward and essential to a good life, and tried very hard to install that in her two boys – making sure homework got done every night, school is important, etc. He on the other hand didn’t see school as having really any value to his life, so when the boys were with him they got the message that it’s ok to blow off school and homework (and accompanying messages about how to plan your future after high school).
      I know there are couples who have unequal levels of education, but the same goals/values related to education in general and for their kids, and I don’t think those problems would reproduce themselves in that situation. My mom has formal education, my dad never went to university, but they both pushed us towards high education and professional careers (classic immigrant family here). I think a few commenters here are also in professional careers but married to men in trades (I think one in police services and one in electrical contracting?) so hopefully they will chime in.
      Sorry for the novel — to boil it down, I think you need to have similar values about education and professional achievement, not necessarily the same level of personal achievement.

      1. +1 Totally agree that your values on education matter more than the level of education you have each achieved.

        1. +1 to that as well. My hub’s parents only graduated high school, but they was insistent their son put school first and go to college.

      2. I completely agree with this. I married down (husband has only a high school education/blue collar job and a blue collar family, I have a JD and everyone in my family went to college and most of them have masters degrees and/or professional designations), but my husband is very smart and has very similar thoughts on the importance of education and raising children. He places a very strong focus on his daughter’s schoolwork and often tells her you have to go to college if you want to have any career choice. I have dated guys in the past who made less than I did (although in fields requiring a college degree) and some of them really had a problem with it, but my husband does not. He very much views everything as “ours” and feels like we are both contribuing to our income/lifestyle (which is true). My husband has been at his current job for 10 years and does very well at it.

        Before I met him, I never would have considered dating someone without a college degree (or who had kids…) but he’s very much my intellectual equal even if there is a big disparity in our education.

      3. Right. I know a decent number of families where both have at least a BA, but they are sort of jock/party types who have their kids in 57 sports and they don’t really have a fundamental appreciation for education or learning. They’re the types who argue with the teachers and don’t see anything wrong with doing every project for their kids instead of letting them do it. Whereas you might have a first generation immigrant family who always puts education first.

    10. I don’t think you can equate income/ambition/education. All three are pretty independent and my answer for each is different. I would not want to marry someone who does not value and prioritize education. I don’t think it have been an explicit dealbreaker for me, but I would have been unlikely to meet & marry someone who didn’t have a college degree (mostly because all my friends and friends of friends do). I never thought of higher education as a dating requirement the way some friends do, but I think it depends on why the person didn’t pursue higher education (e.g. – if someone got a reliable, fulfilling job such as engineer with just a college degree and sees no reason to get a masters or PhD – that makes sense to me). Income doesn’t matter to me. More degrees and more prestigious degrees does not equal more income. My husband has a PhD but his income (and earning potential) is a lot lower than mine with a law degree. But his degree was way harder to earn and he loves his field and is passionate about it, so I would never say I “married down” because of his lower earning potential. Ambition is harder to say. I definitely think I am attracted to ambition as a personality trait, but I think ambition comes in a lot of forms and a person doesn’t necessarily have to be ambitious about the particular career he/she is in now. I have my own career and have never felt like I need a guy to “take care of me”, so I don’t think (hypothetically at least) that I’d have a problem with a guy who wanted to be a stay at home dad while kids were young, or a guy who wasn’t in love with his career and wanted to go back to school to do something new. I would definitely have a problem with a guy who just wanted to bum around while I worked, but I think that guy has a lot of issues besides lack of ambition.

    11. It’s not a matter of marrying up, down, or sideways, as much as it is be sure to marry someone you are compatible with. I think you have to know what you want to do with your life and career, how you define success and failure, and what role other people play in these goals. You also have to know how your partner answers these questions and if the combination of the two of you results in a happy place.

      1. I completely agree with this. It all comes down to what your values and priorities are and how they fit together with your partner’s.

        I personally have fairly non-traditional views on gender roles so it is important to me to be with someone who understands and shares similar views. For me this means being with someone who doesn’t bat an eye at whether I have more or less education than him or make more or less money or is seen as more or less successful. We both have a similar drive to be successful in our careers but don’t see things as a comparison. We will not be having kids so we won’t have to deal with the issues that come with those decisions. The only issue I can see ever coming up is a remote chance that one of us gets a job offer in a different city. He has encouraged me to look for jobs anywhere in the country and said he’d be willing to move, but luckily the type of work I’m interested in mainly exists in our current city (which he works for). This relationship works great for both of us because we view the world and gender roles specifically in similar ways.

        On the other hand, I have many friends with different values, priorities, and world views. They’ve wanted to have multiple children and then be the one to stay home and raise them. Some wanted to do that for a few years then return to the workforce and some didn’t want to return. They’ve ended up with partners who wanted the same things. I don’t know where the desires came from, but I’d guess that if they were based on traditional gender roles then it might not be an issue if their partner always had to be the one who was more successful and made more money. If the desire came from someplace else and they had views on gender roles that are similar to mine then I imagine they would take issue if their partner believed that men should be the successful breadwinners. Ultimately it comes down to whether their values and priorities align.

      2. I usually agree 100% that it shouldn’t matter. I do have one story that sort of contradicts it though– my former boss (a law firm partner) married a guy who worked as a waiter. She swore that he was smarter than anyone else she knew, he was super well read, all of that. But she never did respect him, and they got divorced after three years, then spent the next decade at war over custody issues. But that’s because she’s an asshole, not because it’s inherently bad to “marry down.”

    12. I’ve noticed my dating pool shrink now that I have my JD. A lot of men are not interested once they find out what I do. Becoming an attorney was the worst thing I ever did for my personal life.

      1. A woman I know (ER doctor) has said the same thing – she gets a lot more messages on dating sites when she puts her occupation as vaguely “medical services” (leading guys to think she’s in nursing or so on) than when she puts herself down as a medical doctor. Too bad :( But a good way to weed out the guys who wouldn’t support and be proud of your career.

        1. Yeah, I say it isn’t so much “too bad” as a great efficiency in screening. When I did online dating I was very clear on my profile, deliberately, about what I do and the fact that it’s important to me. I don’t know why I’d have wanted to hear from anyone who had a problem with that. We obviously never would have been able to form a relationship anyway.

          1. Seconded… I don’t think it’s too bad at all. I wouldn’t want to date anyone who has an issue with women being lawyers/dating someone successful/etc., so it’s a great way to weed out people. (Sadly it does not do enough to deter the occasional gross messages… No, random dude who lives in another country, I do not want to Skype with you.)

            I am, however, completely non-specific about what kind of lawyer I am — some people have issues/misconceptions about corporate litigators that are unfounded and I’d rather correct them of those on a first date then scare someone away who otherwise might be great. And it’s only mentioned in one or two places in my profile that I’m a lawyer, so I make it clear that it doesn’t dominate my life.

          2. I think it’s “too bad” that some guys are idiots, not that the idiots aren’t messaging her.

      2. Oh pa-lease. Honestly whenever I hear this, its always from obnoxious people. Almost all the women I know from law school are dating or married to nice men or women. What kind of man cares if you have a JD? First of all, anyone can get a JD. Its not like becoming a a rocket scientist.

        2. That is exactly the point. To most people it shouldn’t matter, but the fact is that it does matter to some people. It sounds like most of us here wouldn’t want to be with someone that it mattered to. There are others that either don’t care or agree that it should matter.

        3. I don’t mean to be harsh but the only women I have heard this from mention they are a lawyer about every 2 seconds. And I am not someone who is in to down playing achievements at all, I am very proud of my own JD.

          1. Hmmm, the woman I mention in my comment above (I think early 30s) is not like that at all, actually, and is very sweet and funny and modest. So I don’t think that issue is at play here, sorry.

        4. Haha, I assume that this was from a troll, but it’s actually kind of funny, and kind of true. At least the last part. I have a JD, and I kind of agree that almost “anyone” can get a JD. Well, anyone who graduated from college and is willing to take out another $150K in loans after undergrad. A law degree on its own just really doesn’t have the panache it maybe once had.

          1. Not from a troll. I don’t understand why if something is slightly harsh that people call it a troll. I was serious- and I am an attorney- but being one is just not that impressive, and its baffling to me that people think that men care or are intimidated by that. Sure I buy that some men are intimated by smart women, but its not because of your JD.

            And Marilla, I wasn’t talking about an ER doctor I was talking about an attorney. I can absolutely see having less options when you are an ER doctor for either gender because that is a very demanding occupation, and I would buy that more men would feel intimiated by an ER doctor but I don’t know if that is a gender thing because I feel like I would feel intimated by one too haha.

      3. That’s so sad. That reminds me of that episode of SATC where Miranda starts telling guy’s she’s a flight attendant (instead of a lawyer) and gets so many more dates – and then she meets a guy who tells her he’s a doctor and it turns out he’s really a shoe salesman or something. Such a sad comment on society that women have to demote themselves to get dates and men have to promote themselves.

        1. I am going to start telling guys I work in the encased meats industry. I just hate seeing their faces fall when they hear I am a lawyer.

          1. I am baffled too by the “intimidated by the JD” discussion, maybe it’s bc I’m in NYC but I have never once had a guy react to mine (and I’ve been dating w one for 15 years)

    13. My husband has less education and less ambition than me. But, he is smart (teaches himself lots of difficult things and reads more widely/deeply than me) and works hard. I think a similar level of intellectual curiosity and work ethic are more important than education/specific career.

      I do think it’s wise to consider the cultural factors you speak of; sometimes things DO matter and can add a lot of stress to a marriage, even though you both KNOW it shouldn’t matter.

      It’s important to be able to really, truly respect your spouse (regardless of gender) and make them *feel* respected and appreciated for their contributions to your mutual life. And I knew I would have a hard time respecting, as a partner, someone who didn’t have a certain level of curiosity and diligence. So in that sense I was careful not to “marry down.” But this had nothing to do with career or earning potential. I also knew that I would have a hard time being with someone who couldn’t respect my achievements and goals, so that was definitely something I ‘felt out’ before we got married.

    14. Oh goodness, do we have the same mom? I get exactly the same lecture from my mother and come from a cultural background with similar expectation. She says it would be so much easier for me to get married with a good “catch” if I made less money or worked a more flexible job (i.e easy to move around with the husband). They would look down upon or disapprove of any guy I am dating who is not as accomplished as me or making same level of income. It is so frustrating, as if I am getting punished for doing well in my career. A man in my position would be the ultimate prized catch in the marriage market in our community. I have no problem with guys who don’t work in similar prestigious high income fields but are motivated , doing something and not just bumming on the couch. As I move higher up the ladder I think I would actually prefer a guy with more flexible career options if I ever need to relocate for my dream job/big promotion or when kids enter the picture. But my parents absolutely do not understand this line of thinking, believe such marriages are always doomed, it is so difficult to reason with them. All the guys they think are perfect for me are highly accomplished as well but I am afraid I am the one who will be expected to downshift career ambitions if push comes to shove (kids/relocation etc) and I know that would make me incredibly resentful and just plain hate the guy. My parents think all that would magically work out, they also live a dream world where divorce doesn’t happen with such “good guys”, go figure.

        1. “And my mother was valedictorian,” says a friend who is facing a similar problems.

      2. @AnnonFoo, I actually asked this question because I think it’s a dilemma for many women. It can be great having a partner who is more flexible in his career options. But at the same time sometimes priorities change with time. The thread Anon at 10.22 am linked to :” Dating someone with less money or more time” has some ladies expressing resentment when they wanted to downshift their work life but couldn’t because they were the primary breadwinners or brought home most of the money.

      3. My mom also sees it the same way. I think she’s worried about me ending up with a gold digger who is going to use me and take it easy while I continue to work hard.

    15. I think the responses as far already show that one size does not fit all.

      But fwiw, many of my 40-something peers who struggled to juggle 2-career households with child-raising now look at our younger counterparts who are confidently pairing up with men with lower-octane careers and go ‘good for her, the clever girl !’

      1. As a 50 something married to someone with an equally demanding career, we both realized early on that neither of us was likely to end up in the C-suite because we both wanted to do well in our careers. We only had one child, but we both knew that it would impact our careers. We have both fairly impressive careers, but having two career-minded persons in one relationship will limit the trajectory of both, especially if children are involved.

    16. I “married down” or more acurrately moved up after we got married. My husband has a HS degree, and I have a JD. He was extremely supportive of me going back to school at night, for 8 years, to earn my bachelors and then my JD. He is amazing and very well respected at his job (desk job in a blue collar industry) and is smart in many ways, just not the type of person who excels in a school environment. We have always been very close in salary (generally w/in 10% of each other) and its never been a problem if one earns more than the other. Ideally, after a few years my income should be the higher one, and both of us are OK with that.

      Also, blue collar does not necessarily mean low income. I worked in manufacturing for many years and the people who knew how to program machines were easily bringing in 6 figure salaries and probably had more security than anyone since its a “dying art” and finding suitable replacements, or even more employees, is next to impossbile. Plumbers, electricians, contractors etc. generally make tons of money as well.

      We both have the same view on education, that it depends on the person. If someone is not suited to school, there are lots of avenues to great careers through learning a trade.

      I definitely feel like being able to have fun with your partner is the most important thing. If you have great conversations, the same interests, enjoy the same things, and generally just make each other happy, it really shouldn’t matter what degree either of you have.

      1. “Plumbers, electricians, contractors etc. generally make tons of money as well.”

        Seriously. If I had to do it all again I might just become an electrician.

        1. “Plumbers, electricians, contractors etc. generally make tons of money as well.”

          Seriously. If I had to do it all again I might just become an electrician.

          1. I wouldn’t mind being a plumber. Can’t outsource that to a worker in another country. Plus, having your own business allows you to limit your tax burden.

      2. My BFF’s dad was almost finished with a Masters to become a high school science teacher. The program wouldn’t let him keep another job to pay the bills while he was in the student teaching part of the program, so he quit. He became a general contractor and made at least what he would have as a teacher, got to be his own boss, and enjoyed the job a lot.

    17. Intellectual compatibility is more important than the formal education attained. As many ‘rettes noted, a person can only have a bachelor’s degree or (gasp!) not even that, yet be extremely smart and intellectually curious enough for Ms Doctor to enjoy being with him. And of course, a PhD twice over can be a pompous, self-centered a$$hole that no IQ can make up for.

      Viewing the marriage as the partnership, not competition, is just as important.

    18. Happened to my now-husband (except, totally different because we were all much younger).

      He dated a girl for years, but her parents didn’t approve because neither of his parents were college graduates, and he didn’t get into an ivy. Girl went to ivy undergrad & doctorate. Parental stress took a toll on the situation and things ended.
      Then… I met him. He’s the smartest person I know, ambitious, and handsome, but also generous and kind. Couldn’t let that one go! He went on to earn a JD from a top school, and got a great job totally out-earning me. We married, and now I’m heading to grad school. Winning.

      And… the kicker- just like in the movies, there was a super-awkward moment when ex-girlfriend’s mother made it known that NOW that he has a fancy JD, he should go back to her daughter. And ex-girlfriend cried during a mea-culpa to my MIL. I wish I made that up.
      My point is, a partner with wonderful qualities will always do well, whether he has the nice “labels” or not.

      1. Thanks for sharing this great story! I can totally see this happening. Ex-girlfriend’s family is too into appearances and superficial traits; they will never be happy. Your hubbie dodged a bullet there, and good for you to recognize and appreciate his wonderful traits beyond the resume!

    19. We’ve only been married for about 1.5 years but we’ve been together for 6. By the “technical” definition I married down.. I have a bachelors and he is solidly blue collar (contractor/construction) BUT he works hard, makes enough money (if I don’t expect to be wealthy), and has many qualities I need in a partner that are more important than prestige. Also he’s proud of my success/education which I think is absolutely key, same as many people pointed out above about matching values being key.

    20. I always thought I would never “marry down”, but all the “marry up” guys I dated were serious a-holes. My DH is the love of my LIFE, I mean he’s perfect. he’s smart, funny, supportive, and everything I ever wanted – his career track means he’ll be perpetually making maaayyybe half of what I make, if he’s lucky. he’s not working at all right now as a matter of fact. it doesn’t matter to his masculinity. that’s addressed through other ways ;-)

    21. I’m late to this thread but can’t help putting in my two cents. I married down twice. The first time I married a teacher and it worked out quite well — he worked many fewer hours and was able to co-parent in a very significant way while was I was busting my butt in Big Law.

      Second time I married somebody who made about half as much money as I did but worked longer hours and traveled a lot for work. He was very career oriented and by that time I’d left Big Law and was able to do a lot more around the house than I would have.

      Moral of the story, I guess, is that I tend to think one Very Big Career per couple is my max, at least while there are children in the home.

      But VERY BIG WARNING: If you significantly out-earn your husband, be prepared to take a gigantic financial bath if you divorce. I know nobody plans to divorce, but it will happen to many of us and it’s smart to think about it in advance. If you are the high earner and you have no pre-nup or post-nup, expect to be on the hook for spousal support, expect to face losing primary custody of your children if you were working long hours while he was working shorter hours, expect to give up half your retirement benefits, and basically expect to be taken to the cleaners by your poor, downtrodden, lower-earning former spouse.

      I am divorcing Mr. Earns Half What I Do now, and it. is. not. pretty.

    22. Everyone above has given you great advice based on their particular situations and how you should be thinking about and acting on this dilemma.

      Let me give you the other side of the story…the “guy’s point of view.

      I did “marry” down technically…he’s my equal in intelligence, ambition, and drive but for some reason or the other, I’ve always out-earned my DH. My career prospects currently (but I expect it to change) are significantly better than his. He respects me and my professional success (I wouldn’t have married him if that wasn’t the case, and it is one of the things he finds attractive in me) HOWEVER there are days when my out-earning him and my relatively “easier” professional success is a sore point in our relationship. In any given day, despite us being equal partners in every.single.way., it irks him to no end that regardless of how hard he works, I earn more. Sometimes it gets in the way and we erupt in random fights, but we patch up and move on. All I’m saying is…”marrying down” is a short-sighted way of looking at things. Depending on the person, you and he can make it work, and it’s important that he balances you out in ambition, intelligence, and drive. But it’s not always easy. It will be hard, for him especially, you will shake your fist at the world, and at how slowly change happens, and despair if things will EVER change…but then you will just wake up and go off to work and take on another day.

  7. Are other r e t t e s experiencing a familiar tech problem today — the home page gets “stuck” showing a very low number of comments, then if I refresh the correct number of comments is identified for the post, then if I click into the post only a handful of comments show, and only then if I refresh AGAIN do all of the comments display? FWIW, using Chrome and this issue had persisted for me a few months ago, then disappeared when the big tech changes were implemented.

  8. Happy back-to-work day for the ‘rette feds! A request though: please tell your supervisors to switch back on your government websites! The ones I need to access for my job are still shut down :(

    2. We’re still being told by our counterparts (same agency) that they aren’t funded for direct tasking so the sites may take awhile…

  9. looking for some last minute advice before a biglaw interview later today (lateral candidate for junior associate position in the litigation group)… what are some good, non-obvious questions to ask during the Q&A time that inevitably comes up in interviews? Here are the ones I have so far:

    -how are cases staffed; what would my role on the team as a 3rd year associate be?
    -what types of pro bono matters can i expect to work on?
    -can you tell me more about associate development and training

    other than those 3, I have a mental block!

    1. I like to ask about what the person’s typical day is like (or what their day yesterday was like, because in litigation there is not really a “typical day”). Gives you a sense of what you would be doing as X year associate and people like to talk about themselves. Also for your pro bono question, my answer to that would be “anything you want to work on” because anything you have an interest in can basically happen. I’d frame it as “what pro bono have you [the interviewer] worked on?” or “can you tell me about some recent pro bono projects the firm/office has been involved in.”

    2. How would you measure a successful first year in the position? What do you expect a 3rd year associate to know already and what would you expect them to learn in the third year? How do you manage junior associates on a team?

    3. I would not ask about pro bono matters, but that’s just me. To be perfectly candid, pro bono can be (but isn’t always) good PR for the firm, but it doesn’t bring in money. You want to convey that you care about the firm’s business, and pro bono isn’t the firm’s business. I’d ask about that if you’re out of stuff to talk about, but I wouldn’t prioritize that question.

      The typical day question has always been my favorite interview question, as I think it yields the most useful advice.

      2. This. I’ve worked at three biglaw firms, including “lifestyle” firms. You are interviewing to make the firm money – pro bono loses the firm money.

      3. I think it totally depends on how the firm markets itself. I think TBK said it yesterday – firms really like hearing what they promote about themselves parroted back to them. There are a few firms out there that really push their pro bono efforts, and I got callbacks at several of these when I mentioned my strong belief in the importance of pro bono.

    4. How about:
      – What do you like most about working here?
      – What one thing, other than the billable hour, would you most like to change about your job?
      – What type of person succeeds in the litigation group at your firm?
      – What made you decide to work a this law firm? (especially for interviewers who lateralled themselves)
      – What was it like to transition to this firm? (again, for laterals)

    5. I’m in litigation, and I love being asked about my cases. Something like ask the interviewer to tell you about a couple of her most interesting cases.

    6. After getting settle din what will my first priorities/major assignments/tasks be?

      What kind of management style do you have (if you are being interviewed by someone who will be your supervisor)?

      I also like the typical day question

    7. cross-office staffing, ask an associate about how many different partners they work with, managerial style.

    8. My advice is to figure out what it is you’d want to know before taking a job somewhere and then figure out an interview appropriate way of asking. For big law, it’d be curious about facetime, bonus potential, lockstep or not, case assignments, ability to change areas/do work for another group, and hours pressure. I like the “typical day”‘question, and I might also ask about “typical nights and weekends” to try to figure out if people work remotely or always in the office; I’d straight up ask some of the other questions but at appropriate junctures (work assignments/practice mobility are fair game early on, compensation later on/when you have an offer). You might also want to kin if there is a non equity partner track or counsel designation/option for when you get more senior, it will give some insight into the up or out nature of the firm.

  10. NYC Meet Up! Monday, November 11 at 7pm (but we’ll be there later, so come when you can!) at Grey Dog’s on W 16th St & 8th Ave. I’ll post reminders periodically and I’ll try not to be annoying. –preg 3L

  11. Reposting from yesterday’s thread!

    I am turning to my fellow Corporettes for help! I’m in over my head and need some advice on how to proceed.

    I have been working for the past 6 years as a project manager for a large project at a research institute. I like my job, I like my co-workers, and my job has been REALLY good to me, as when I had to move away due to a family commitment, they offered me a full-time position managing the project remotely (so I did 3 years in house and 3 years remotely). The project is officially ending in December of 2013. There is talk of keeping me and my two staff members on, but funding is questionable and any future employment for me would require moving back.

    I recently (as in started on Monday) landed a three year executive project manager/ED position that I was thrilled to get. I am currently working full time for my new position and full time for my previous position. It is the first week of this and my new position has been really low-key this week because of board meetings and such, however, I am completely exhausted and having trouble figure out how to extract myself from old job without completely bailing on the project.

    As far as I see it, I have two options:
    1) Give two weeks notice to old job and walk away completely.
    2) Complete my third quarter financial reports and a few other deliverables (that only I can complete) and leave old job the week before Thanksgiving.

    What would you do? What should I do? Thanks!

    1. I’m a little confused about how you start a new full time job without quitting your old one. Honestly, if your job is at risk, I think you can walk whenever you need to. Assuming, like most of us, you rely on your income to live, you need to make sure you’re not unemployed. Any rational employer would understand and probably is expecting you to give notice any day.

      1. Agree and equally confused. And do both places know you’re working elsewhere, as that could be problematic.

        1. New job knows that I am finishing up my obligations for old job. Old job does not know yet because I am trying to figure out how to leave them.

          And my old job is not 9 – 5, it is remote work, so I work from 9 – 5 for new job, go home, have dinner and work from 6 – 10 for old job, and I plan on making up the rest of my hours on the weekend.

          I am really just wondering about leaving old job on a good note – I am the only one who can do many of my tasks, and I don’t want to leave them high and dry 3 months before finishing our project.

          1. And by remote work, I really mean task based work (I have tasks I have to complete – they don’t have to be completed M – F, 9 – 5). Sheesh, I should probably wake up more!

          2. I really think it’s poor planning on an employer’s part when there is literally one person who can do crucial tasks. What if you got hit by a bus tomorrow? Would their business fall apart? If the answer is “yes,” then it’s on them for poor management/planning. Either way, you’re not an indentured servant. I’d give two weeks’ notice and present at the same time a plan for transitioning all of your remaining tasks to someone else on the team, showing how nothing will fall through the cracks even though you’re leaving. (You say no one else can do your tasks — there must be someone who could be trained to take them over. If there isn’t, back to it being on them for poor planning.)

  12. I just found out that I will be going to Miami Beach in early November! Any suggestions on what to do, where to eat, etc? I will be there for a full week, so I’d like to make a vacation out of it. Thank you in advance!

    1. Miami beach is really fun, but very expensive and very inconvenient. Parking is a huge hassle and expense. There are fancy restaurants, bars and pool clubs in most of the swanky hotels. I’ve eaten at Prime 112, which seems to be a place to see and be seen. Food is excellent, but quite pricey. Honestly, to me Miami is like Las Vegas in the sense that its fun for a weekend, but anything more than that gets tiring. Its a lot of big clubs and drinking. Most of the restaurants that dot Ocean Drive are not very good and are overpriced, but are good for sitting on a patio and people-watching. Lincoln Road is another spot for shopping, eating and people watching.

      That said, I don’t know that much about it. I’ve visited about 3 times. The beach and ocean are obviously great, and its always nice to be in 85 degree weather in November!

    2. I’ve been to South Beach a few times and had a great, relaxing time. The last time, we stayed at a hotel with a kitchenette so were able to eat in for breakfast and snacks and did not feel guilty spending more on dinner. I can’t remember the name of the hotel but you should be able to narrow down hotels with kitchenettes on Kayak. We did learn the hard way that the bridges get really crowded so I would recommend avoiding traveling over them as much as possible.

  13. Work lunch today at a sandwich shop. Are chicken cutlet sandwiches okay for pregnant women, or do they count as the dreaded “deli meat”? I can do meatball or salad if I can’t do the chicken, but thought I’d see what others had experienced. (Btw, of COURSE I am just absolutely craving a big, delicious Italian sub like they make at the corner sub/pizza shops back home in eastern Mass., with all the fixings including oil and vinegar. But that’s beside the point. Just venting. But I do miss those subs from home.)

    1. You should do some reading on the chances of actually getting listeria from a wide variety of foods, not just deli meats. In fact, the last 3 big listeria outbreaks in this country have been from produce, not deli meat. And, if the chicken cutlet (or deli meat) is cooked to 165 degrees, then there is no issue at all.

      I grew up in MA and I know those Italian subs well. There used to be a place in Nantasket Beach that had the most amazing ones, dripping with oil.

      Also, FWIW, I’m preggo and eating Italian subs once in a while when I feel like it. I refuse to obsess over every little thing that could potentially have a .05% chance of giving me food poisoning.

      2. I’ve done the reading and, yeah, the risk is small and the risk of doing other things is probably bigger (although I do vigorously scrub the outside of any melons I eat and have stopped eating bagged salad, too). I guess my admittedly irrational feeling is that, if anything went wrong, it would be easier on me if I could say I followed the rules. Totally irrational since many of the “rules” are half-guesses or worse. And I do have a small glass of wine or beer sometimes, which I guess is violating some of the rules. But one of my best friends is an OB/Gyn, and someone I think of as a pretty laid back person, so I just follow the list she gave me, which is what she used in her own pregnancies. It includes eating only deli meat that’s been microwaved until steaming. But I totally hear you.

      3. Even if the chances are low, the risks are extremely high (fetal death) and not worth it. I avoided all cold meat (are the cutlets heated?) I also avoided salads.

    2. I’m pregnant right now, and I’m only doing meats that are cooked right before eating. At the deli this means chicken cutlets that are put on the grill in front of me and go on my sandwich steaming hot. I wouldn’t eat a chicken cutlet or meatball sub if it had been sitting around for a while after being cooked. I am pretty cautious about this stuff, though.

    3. A chicken cutlet is cooked, so my understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) is that there’s not really a listeria concern as there is with deli meat that sits around for who knows how long. But there’s still a salmonella concern. As long as the chicken looks fully cooked, it should be fine. If it looks at all pink, I would err on the side of caution and skip it. But same goes for looking for undercooked meat in your meatball sandwich or any other meal that has meat.

    4. With the govt shutdown until recently, routine food inspections were not really happening. My meat-eating SO was particularly concerned about chicken. Not trying to tell you what to do, just yet another thing to consider.

      1. Yep. I’m not pregnant but we’re not eating chicken at our house right now. I’ve got two little kids and I get all worried about it, so I figure what better time to try out some vegetarian dishes.

    5. What about a steak and cheese or something else that is cooked hot? I have never had a cold chicken cutlet sandwich so it is either fried, grilled or microwaved in my (pre-gluten free) experience.

    6. I’m not sure if you’re in the US or Canada, but Motherisk says that deli meats are a-okay and that advice to avoid them is out-dated (as long as you’re otherwise eating from reputable sources:

      Although heating or cooking food is the best way to inactivate food-borne pathogens, improved standards and surveillance have reduced the prevalence of contaminated foods at grocery stores.Therefore, it is no longer necessary for pregnant women to avoid foods like deli meats and soft cheeses (associated with Listeria); soft-cooked eggs (associated with Salmonella); or sushi and sashimi. Regardless of whether seafood is raw or cooked, pregnant women should choose low mercury seafood (eg, salmon and shrimp) over higher mercury varieties (eg, fresh tuna). Pregnant women should ensure that their food is obtained from reputable establishments; stored, handled, and cooked properly; and consumed within a couple of days of purchasing.

      http://www.motherisk.org/prof/updatesDetail.jsp?content_id=925

  15. I am venturing to Columbia, Missouri this weekend. Any recommendations for things to see/places to eat/bars, etc.?

    1. It’s been almost 20 years since I went to school there (gah!), but: Shakespeare’s for pizza, Booche’s (billiard hall) for burgers (trust me on this one), catch a band at the Blue Note if you can. Walk around downtown/9th street and bar hop. Aw man, wish I was going!

    2. I recall going to a decent brewpub there. Flat Branch, it’s called.

      Oh look, their website says “Voted Best Overall Restaurant in Columbia 4 Years Straight!”

  16. I’m looking for recommendations for some type of padfolio or envelope to carry work papers in. Right now I have a beautiful leather envelope that will fit legal size paper and is gusseted so you can cram a lot in it. Problem is, I never need to carry papers that large or so many of them. I prefer to use the same notebook at my desk as when I’m out at meetings, etc. so I like the envelope style (as opposed to something that had a notepad in it, like a padfolio) but this thing is just too large for carrying only half a dozen sheets of paper at a time. Can anyone recommend anything for this conundrum?

      1. Yay mascot! That second link looks perfect. It even comes in purple, my favorite color. Thank you!

    2. I use letter-sized Redwelds for this situation. But then, what don’t lawyers use Redwelds for?

  17. Thanks for bearing with me on many move-related threadjacks–this one is a bit more specific to financial questions. My boyfriend and I are planning to get married (but aren’t formally engaged yet) so we have long term plans, but aren’t yet combining finances.

    Do you guys have any good advice on how to deal with joint expenses related to living together? The idea is that we would split things evenly, but my boyfriend really doesn’t love the idea of tallying things up in a nitpicky way. That’s been fine when it comes to things like treating for dinner and hotel rooms, etc, but a bit more complicated when there are more regular joint expenses (groceries come to mind).

    Any advice on how to think about all of this? Or sites/apps that track household spending for couples?

    Thanks!

    1. Can you set up a joint checking account just for those household expenses? And deposit an equal amount in it monthly, or an equal % of your income, however makes sense for you. It could be good practice for combined finances in the future, while still keeping the majority of your accounts separate.

      1. +1 we did this, each putting in an amount proportionate to our incomes (I was making much more than he was at the time) and it made the transition to shared finances once we got married much easier for us.

    2. When my DH and I moved in together (we weren’t engaged yet either) we opened a joint account, and all of our pay checks went in there. Then we just paid for everything from that account. We basically combined finances at that point – fwiw we got engaged about a year after we moved in together and married a year after that.

    3. We got a joint credit card. We put all of our joint expenses on it (except rent, though we would if we could) and then split the bill each month. We’re now married and are still doing the same thing, since it seems so much simpler than opening yet another bank account and having to shuffle money back and forth. I think technically I’m just an authorized user on his account, so I don’t know what would happen if we actually ran up massive bills and didn’t pay them, but we pay it off each month, have excellent credit, and trust each other not to go crazy, so it works really well for us.

      1. We also opened a joint credit card and put purchases on that, splitting it down the middle to pay it off in full each month. He moved into the house I owned and I was really touchy about him paying me rent or sharing the mortgage, so I continued to carry that expense (and the related insurance, etc.) on my own.

        1. +1 for a joint credit card! We did that too and it still works great. All “joint” expenses go on the joint card, so there’s no longer a question of who’s taking whom out to dinner or who bought groceries last.

    4. My boyfriend and I have this exact same arrangement. We use the Splitwise app (iphone and android). The rent and utilities come from my accounts (I lived in the apartment first) and so I enter those payments into Splitwise and it divides the amount evenly and keeps track of who owes what. If anyone goes grocery shopping, they add it to Splitwise. If someone picks up dinner, again, added to Splitwise. No matter what you do, you have to agree to not feel bad about adding an expense to the list. To this end, we try to remind and ask each other to add things to Splitwise. We also have a “square up” date. On the first of every month, whoever owes more writes a check to the other. We’ve been doing this since July and we both love it.

      1. Seconding the Splitwise– we use this too. It’s very easy, and we tend to just log on to our various bank websites and go back through our expenses– did we split this? Add it.

    5. Could you estimate your regular joint expenses and each put an equal amount into a joint account from which you pay those expenses?

      Alternatively, what if you estimate your fixed expenses and assign bill responsibility that way? For example, you pay the electric and internet he pays the heat and the cell phone. You could swap off weekly or monthly on groceries.

    6. Get a joint checking account/debit card just for regular joint expenses that you each contribute to equally? So not really combined finances, but it takes care of having to tally everything.
      (I suggest this, but we still just tally everything on an excel spreadsheet and work out at the end of each month how much one owes the other)

    7. My now-husband and I would alternate weeks for grocery purchases. Assuming there wasn’t a special purchase in the cart (wine, expensive cheeses, expensive cuts of meat) we generally averaged about the same amount week to week.

    8. We each take responsibility for separate expenses that are roughly equal in amount (i.e. I pay the electric bill and for the groceries, he pays the cable bill and for all of our joint dinners out) so there’s no need to bean-count throughout the month. The only thing we split is rent, and with that, he writes me a check for his half and then I take care of the payment to the landlord.

    9. Also keep in mind that even if you don’t buy expensive wines and cheeses you might buy more expensive food (like produce) than he is used to (like cereal). So you might want to take a minute of shopping together before you decide you’re going to split it 50/50. That gave my bf a chance to understand how much healthy food cost, so he’s more comfortable with the expense now. There was definite sticker shock for the first few months.

    10. We added up an average of the household bills & mortgage I pay every month and he just writes me a check for what his half works out to be. If we take a trip we just ball-park the expenses and figure it out very roughly, for example, I’ll get the rooms, he’ll rent the car, etc. If either of us feels like we’ve been paying a lot more for joint adventures or grocery bills, we just speak up, and at the next outing the other one breaks out the credit card. It’s sort of an ‘it all works out in the wash’ philosophy. This was the same system we had before we were married, when he moved into the house I already owned, and afterwards we just continued on with it as we were used to it. This relaxed approach works well for us probably because neither one of us are on a super-tight budget and are very like-minded when it comes to finances.

    11. Thanks, all! This is very useful! Maybe we’ll try the joint credit card–that seems fairly easy! The main problem is that I tend to be the primary grocery-buyer (he’s living the bachelor order-take-out-every-night life right now) and then he likes to compensate by taking me out to dinner a lot. It’s nicer than bean counting, but I’m naturally frugal so I wouldn’t eat out much–plus it’s much more fun to be like “dinner’s on me!” than it is to, say, pay for all the groceries always!

    12. I’m in the same situation of living together with long-term plans but no combined finances (but will hopefully be getting engaged in the next six months!) .

      We split our rent on a percentage basis (he pays 80% and I pay 20%), because our incomes are very uneven (he makes significantly more than I do, and our apartment now was originally his apartment, so the rent is a figure that he’s much more comfortable with than I am).

      We then have certain things that we pay for – he covers all utilities and house-related bills (maid service, renter’s insurance, etc.). I cover our groceries and other household necessities (toilet paper, garbage bags, cleaning supplies, etc.). He also typically pays for all of our larger purchases (furniture). He does up paying significantly more than I do in terms of an actual dollar amount, but he also makes much more, and when we worked it out on a percentage basis, we were each paying a somewhat similar percentage of our incomes to “joint” expenses. He also pays for dinners out and most vacations, which there’s more room for in his budget than mine, though I do chip in and try to “treat” him from time to time.

      1. My DH and I have significantly different incomes (before we relocated, he made 50% of what I did. after we relocated, I make what we used to make together, and he makes nothing [yet] and will probably make 50% again once he gets a job). The best thing we ever did was completely combine our money. We did try the “one joint account, two separate accounts, each put x% of income into joint account” thing, but it wasn’t working very well because he’s super frugal and I’m a bit more spendy, so I’d always be the one treating us to dinners, and he’d never ever buy clothes for himself. Now we each have a budget for clothes, entertainment, etc, which helps me stay on track and helps him realize that he can spend money on things like that without feeling like it’ll cause him to go broke at the end of the month.

        I did have to fight a bit for a higher clothing and personal care budget than him – had to show him how much all of those hair appts, waxings, extraneous clothing items like tights and leggings, etc all add up!

    13. My partner and I have a 3 joint accounts: checking, savings, credit card. We each deposit a set (equal) amount into the checking account each month, and that’s typically enough to pay all of our utilities and the credit card bill. We always pay off the credit card bill in full every month. If there’s not enough money in the joint account to cover the credit card bill (which is always the last thing I pay after all the utilities are covered), we each pay half of deficiency from our individual accounts.

      We put most of our joint purchases (groceries, dinners out, theater tickets, purchases for the house) on the credit card. If one of us purchases a joint item in cash (or on a store credit card to get a discount), we have a tray in the dining room to drop these receipts into. Once a month, I go through the receipts and schedule payments from our joint checking account to go back to our individual accounts to reimburse us for those joint expenses that were paid by just one of us.

      We have an automatic monthly transfer from the checking to the savings account. We use the savings for bigger joint items like vacations and furniture. We’re usually saving towards something particular at any given time. Last month we cleaned out our savings account to pay off the credit card bill from the European vacation we took this summer. We had to contribute another $200 each from our individual accounts to cover the whole credit card bill, which was just about in line with our budget for the trip.

      I always thought our system was really simple, but typing it out, it sounds a bit more involved. This system has developed over time, after trying a few other ways of handling expenses. I handle the bills, receipts, scheduling payments and regular monitoring of the accounts. I’m more organized; he’s more forgetful and not very punctual with bills and such. All he has to do is remember to (1) use the credit card for joint purchases or if he doesn’t then to drop his receipt in the tray, (2) transfer the standard amount of money to the joint account at the beginning of every month, and (3) pay the extra to the credit card bill when I tell him we occasionally need to (I email him the exact amount needed and the due date).

      All of our larger savings, investments, properties, retirement accounts, etc. are individual, and whatever we don’t contribute to our joint expenses we maintain in separate accounts and spend (or not) as we please.

  18. Looking for recs for daily facial moisturizer and tinted moisturizer WITHOUT SPF. My skin just can’t handle SPF for everyday use but it’s in everything now.

    1. I like Philosophy Hope in a Jar for daily moisturizer. I think they make an SPF-free version.

    2. Have you tried different types of SPF? Avobenzone can be harsh on skin while titanium dioxide is much more gentle.

    3. I like kiehls ultra facial cream. I think that’s what it’s called. For SPF, the skinceuticals one with physical sunscreen has been great (Versus all of the chemical ones out there)

  19. We got a joint credit card. We put all of our joint expenses on it (except rent, though we would if we could) and then split the bill each month. We’re now married and are still doing the same thing, since it seems so much simpler than opening yet another bank account and having to shuffle money back and forth. I think technically I’m just an authorized user on his account, so I don’t know what would happen if we actually ran up massive bills and didn’t pay them, but we pay it off each month, have excellent credit, and trust each other not to go crazy, so it works really well for us.

  20. Ladies – I’m in a situation where I need to reduce spending and save as much cash as possible between now and the end of the year to be able to meet a couple of financial obligations with cash, rather than dipping into credit or the rainy day fund. Neither of these obligations are particularly critical (think new carpet), but it would be nice to take care of them sooner than later.

    Can you guys share your best advice for squirreling away cash? We’ve cut meals out, coffee splurges and are competing to see who can make a $20 bill go further in our daily purchases. We’re also on a mission to cook primarily out of the pantry and freezer, as it seems the food budget is where we tend to bleed money.

    1. My husband and I recently challenged ourselves to lower our food budget. We focused on not buying convenience foods (pre-cut fruits or veggies, processed stuff,etc) and making cheaper dinners. There are lots of good meals on 5 dollar dinners. I read some of the Mister Money Mustache blog on grocery shopping too since I think his family eats mostly gluten free. We went from a $160 weekly bill for the two of us to $90 in our first week trying. We are still tweaking it though.

      1. I’ll check into this. My tomato plants are still producing like mad, but my excitement for another night of pasta and tomato sauce is starting to wear thin. I think its time to add some new recipes into the mix.

        1. Tyler Florence’s roasted tomato soup is the best. Perfect as we start to head into cooler temps, fantastic with really good tomatoes, and if you don’t add the dairy it will freeze really well.

      2. I clarified below but I should put it here too. I’m not saying don’t buy veggies. Just don’t buy the pre-cut ones. Cut them yourself.

        1. Turns out a big bunch of spinach is $1 versus $5 for the big container of pre-washed spinach. I need to see where else I’m spending money on convenience packaging.

          1. Yes to this. Its so much cheaper to buy things that are not convenience packaged or cut. Also, sometimes (not always) farm markets and CSA can be a good resource for less expensive produce.

    2. If the food budget is where you bleed money, I would try to cook many bean-based meals. And buy your beans dry and soak them. Meat is a huge expense on the grocery bill and if you can replace 3-4 meat dinner a week with beans, you should be able to save some cash.

      What about gas? Are there places you could carpool, public transit, bike or walk instead of using the car?

      Cable? Can you cut your cable for the next 3-4 months without going crazy? How much TV do you watch? Would taking out DVDs from the library be enough to get you through TV cravings?

      1. We have the basic Dish network package on contract, as cable is crazypants expense in our city. We do have some extra tiers right now (not on contract), as we’re in the heart of football season, so come January that will be scaled back. We agreed to not attend any games for our favorite college football team this year and nixing the meals out has also nixed the trips to the sports bar to watch games.

        I should look at dropping Netflix, though maybe at $8.55 a month its not worth bothering with?

        1. For all that is good and holy, keep Netflix. It’s the best $8 investment I make.

        2. Agree with HSAL. Eliminating all entertainment would be like going on an all cabbage diet: sooner or later you’d cheat and eat a pound of expensive chocolate truffles.

    3. No need to skimp on the fresh produce if you’re not truly destitute – look for items on sale and in-season at the grocery store, and skipped the pre-cut/bagged stuff. Look on manufacturer’s websites for coupons for household products – there are almost always deals for hair products and toothpaste. Also, if you’re not already, consider going vegetarian for most of your meals. Beans and lentils are a great, health, filling source of protein and very cheap if you buy in those big bags (heck, even canned beans are super cheap if you don’t have time to cook the dried kind). So are high-protein grains like quinoa and bulgur.

      1. Do you have any go-to recipes for beans? It always seems like a good idea, but I never know where to substitute meat for beans.

        1. I used to make two of Jane Brody’s recipes – company rice and beans and curried lentils. The curried lentils have been a huge hit when I’ve taken them to parties where there would be vegetarians. I would also make burritos with black beans and brown rice.

        2. Here is what I made last night. Jasmine rice in a rice cooker w/ chicken broth and a bit of almond milk. Sauteed a bit of yellow onion, a green pepper and some tomatoes in a frying pan with minced garlic, salt and pepper, dash of soy sauce, dash of lime juice. Tossed in half a large can (or one small can) of pinto beans, with a bit of the gravy/juice from the can and another half can of garbanzo beans. Tossed in the rice when it was done, added a bit of paprika and let it sit for 10 minutes or so until it was sticky. Super yummy and made enough for two meals for two. I used 3 rice cooker cups of rice. No idea how many real “cups” that is.

        3. Chana masala: http://www.chow.com/recipes/30267-chole-chana-masala (I mix in kale or spinach about 3 mins before it’s done to add an extra boost of vitamins. You can also play around with the spices to your taste)

          Veggie chili – tons of recipes around the web, find one to meet your tastes

          Black bean burgers – http://allrecipes.com/recipe/homemade-black-bean-veggie-burgers/

          For lentils, I just cook a big batch and then sautee with whatever veggies I have on hand, season with curry or cumin/cinnamon, and add feta on top. Serve with pita if that’s not filling enough.

        4. If you have a slow-cooker/crockpot, try Mark Bittman’s super-easy recipe, it amounts to a bean stew. I’ve made it a lot with fancy beans from Whole Foods (we like Christmas limas and scarlet runners) but any type will do. Veggies can get mushy, so if you like you can add them later in the process. I like that you can basically let this sit all day while you’re at work, although a stir once or twice is helpful if someone is home.

          http://markbittman.com/too-hot-to-grill-try-the-slow-cooker/

          And now I’m going to go look up Nola’s suggestions.

      2. Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying don’t buy fresh fruits and veggies. I was saying don’t buy the pre-cut fresh fruits and veggies. By them whole and chop them yourself.

    4. I spend about $50/week on food and I live in a HCOL city on the east coast. My money saving tips for food are buying in season (so right now apples and pears for fruit, buy squash, brussel sprouts, beets, turnips, parsnips, cauliflower, broccoli for veggies). You can also hit up ethnic grocery stores for produce, it tends to be cheaper since a lot of other cultures use more fresh produce than the typical American diet. Utilize yogurt for protein. I add beans to salads to get protein. Buy meat in bulk if possible. Make a lot of stews and chili which can last 2-3 days or go in the freezer if you get sick of it. Basically if its just you and your husband you could conceivable cook once on Sunday (eat leftovers mon-tues), cook again on Wednesday, and a smaller meal on Saturday. Use leftovers. Like cook a whole chicken with potatoes and carrots, and then use leftover meat to make chicken salad for lunch sandwiches. Hope these ideas help!

      1. They definitely help. My aforementioned tomato crop is cut up into chili every Saturday morning and those leftovers last quite a few days. I have a family pack of chicken thighs purchased on deep discount, so I’m trying to come up with a variety of ways to use those this week/weekend.

        It’s just so easy to give into the temptation to eat out…especially after five days of eating at home. I’m optimistic that it’s just a habit we have to break.

        1. I get the temptation to eat out, but if you do, there are ways to do it for cheap(er). Go to a sub place and get a 12-incher and split with your husband. Or go to a place like Chipotle or Roti, get the bowl or salad, and pack it with EVERYTHING – then keep half for lunch or dinner the next day. Pizza is cheap too. The least efficient thing you can do when eating out is to get 1 small sandwich or salad just for yourself.

        2. Try a fun new recipe. Even something that’s slightly frou-frou that requires you to buy a specific protein that’s not normally in your mix, will be cheaper than going out to eat. For winter, I love short ribs. Braise them with a ton of veggies and serve them over risotto, mashed potatoes, pasta, veggies, you name it. Feels like a treat and it costs me less per serving then going out does.

          1. Goodness, I love short ribs. We made these in the pressure cooker with a red wine sauce and it was heaven on a plate.

        3. If you’re really jonesing for a meal out, try allowing yourself to get a fancy cup of coffee or a single -oops, almost use the c word- glass of wine or beer out. The special feeling of “going out” is mostly what I miss when I’m trying to eat at home, and coffee out usually satisfies that for me.

    5. Meal plan and shop the sales. Limit convenience items. If possible make your own – for example, bake muffins instead of buying pastries.

    6. What are some of your main expenses, other than food? Is there any way you can save on transportation? Cell phone?

      1. My employer covers my cell phone and DH is on a low priced pay as you go plan with an ancient iPhone. An upgrade will probably come in the future, but he’s being a good sport about his dinosaur for now.

        Fuel ends up being around $150/month and we’ve recently priced shopped insurance. I think we’ll see some fuel savings associated with not going out much. We have two family events prior to the holidays that we will travel for, but both events are at pretty convenient locations for us (versus 10+ hour drives). We’re committing to day tripping both of these rather than incurring hotel and extra food costs. We’ve decided to drive for the holidays rather than fly. Roundtrip airfare would have been around $1000 and we should be able to drive it for $200 in fuel.

    7. It helps to cook to your cravings. The other day I really wanted a chili dog and fries so I made them at home. You can also find great recipes online for things like general’s chicken or cheesesteaks that aren’t terribly expensive to make and would be much more expensive if you went out for them.

    8. Get a big jug and put all your change in it at the end of the day. You’d be surprised how quickly all those coins add up.

  21. My husband and I are about 2 years away from thinking about buying a house. We’re in the NYC area, so even the suburbs can be pricey. What resources did you use to figure out a price range you were comfortable with? All the numbers sound SO high to me that I’m just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it and just don’t feel like we can afford anything! We’re young, so few of our friends are thinking about this yet, and I’m not really sure where to start. We have about $500k saved for a downpayment and combined make about the same per year. We’ve got no debt or anything like that. Do you have any resources you would recommend?

    I think part of me feeling overwhelmed is that we lived technically below our means for a long time- I can’t imagine writing monthly checks for larger than our $3k in rent!

    1. I use a mortgage payment calculator spreadsheet to compare different mortgages, rates, and amounts. I’ve also added cells to determine the approximate amount of taxes and insurance based on the amount of house I purchase. I found that the comparisons helped me determine my comfort level with the actual mortgage payment. One of my non-negotiables was a 20% downpayment to avoid PMI, allow a conventional mortgage and avoid having to escrow my taxes and insurance. I’ll link the spreasheet below.

    2. I use a mortgage payment calculator spreadsheet to compare different mortgages, rates, and amounts. I’ve also added cells to determine the approximate amount of taxes and insurance based on the amount of house I purchase. I found that the comparisons helped me determine my comfort level with the actual mortgage payment. One of my non-negotiables was a 20% downpayment to avoid PMI, allow a conventional mortgage and avoid having to escrow my taxes and insurance. I’ll link the spreasheet below.

    3. Always nice to see a bitch to brag post. $500k, even in the special snowflake NYC area, is a huge amount of savings for a downpayment, especially for people already comfortable shelling out $3000/month in housing costs.

      2. Does making snarky and unhelpful remarks in response to an honest question posted by an anonymous internet commenter give you feelings of moral superiority? (directed towards anonymous at 12:53, for avoidance of doubt)

        If so, as TBK says, oh please.

        1. Eh I kind of get it. The info that they have half a million saved adds nothing to her question What resources did you use to figure out a price range you were comfortable with?

    4. I find it helpful to think about what I value and go from there. Is it living on well less than you earn to have financial flexibility or to be able to help a relative or charity more significantly? Is it home ownership? Space/schools/neighborhood/commute/etc.? Optimize for what you value you most within your means. Financial flexibility might call for delaying buying until you can buy what you want with a monthly expense that makes you comfortable.

    5. Do you see this as a starter house or someplace you expect to live in for 10+yrs, assuming neither of you gets a super-great job offer that requires a move?

      Would you be OK with buying a fixer-upper? Although I caution that when all the costs of the fixing-up plus the time and stress potentially involved could make it as costly as a totally “done” kind of house.

      The decision my guy and I made with the mortgage was – let’s put down enough downpayment so we have a small, manageable mortgage. By small manageable mortgage, I mean, small enough that if the one with the higher income suffered a job loss, the remaining income is sufficient to cover mortgage and living expenses without tapping into long-term savings & investments.

      While a $500K downpayment sounds like a lot, it isn’t if you’re buying a multi-million dollar home. A lot depends on your and your husband’s risk tolerance.

      1. Thanks everyone. I think part of it is that we could stretch to a home we’d plan to be in for 10-15 years and feel a little bit like we’re holding our breath trying to make it work for the first few years, but would then feel manageable as we got older and further along in our careers or could do a starter home that wouldn’t work much past 5 years but would be clearly within our means. Lots to think about! I’ve spent so much time this afternoon playing with the mortgage calculators!

    6. I’m mostly impressed by your down payment. How long did it take to save that amount?

      1. Honestly, partly because DH is a compulsive saver and had been very successful in a job that was commission based. So we would plan to live on $X per month, then suddenly he would get commission checks for the month being $3X and everything else would go straight into savings. He splurged on something with his first ever signing bonus and regretted it, so now he squirrels everything away and is really looking forward to buying a home. A small portion came from an inheritance I got and I was very lucky to have my parents pay for law school (which otherwise would have consumed about 1/2 of this).

    7. Good for you– seriously! With $500K down and $500K in annual income, I would say my personal max would be a house valued at $2M. I can’t imagine saving that much, but I do have around that much equity since we bought our house in 2001, so I’ve done rough math in those ranges. I would think about whether you and your spouse are both planning on continuing to work indefinitely. I just say that because most of the moms in my area don’t, so obviously if that’s your deal you would have to plan on just one income since mortgage is for the long haul.

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