ByKat Hours Updated
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Suit of the Week

For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. I'm digging the retro vibe of this checked suiting jacket from The Limited — somewhere between the pattern, the three-quarter sleeves, the lack of a collar, the princess seams, and the peplum I'm seeing Rosalind Russell or Myrna Loy. The jacket comes with both matching pants (on sale, natch), and a matching skirt. I think all three pieces could be real workhorses in a growing wardrobe. The jacket (Checked Suiting Jacket) is $128, the skirt (High Waist Checkered Pencil Skirt) is $59.90, and the pants (Cassidy Banded-Sides Classic Flare Pants) were $74.90, but go down to $44.94 with today's sale: 40% off pants and denim (and free shipping on purchases over $100).
(L-all)

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

247 Comments

  1. Oh, I love this!
    This is reason no. 38 why I need to get to an actual Limited store. I know I could order online but haven’t shopped there in sooooooo long I am reluctant to do so.

    1. Have you seen the Sophie Theallet collaboration? I likewise haven’t tried their clothes in ages so I’ve put off ordering anything…

    2. I love it except for the 3/4 length sleeves, which (at least on this model) look even shorter than usual.

        1. I love 3/4 sleeves… because full-length sleeves are too short and I have to keep them pulled up to 3/4 length. Yes my wrists get cold, but I use it as an excuse for a big watch and bracelets, and it’s better than no sleeves or short sleeves! :)

          1. Same. Long sleeves are never long enough, so I end up pushing/rolling all my sleeves up to my elbows anyway. This works for some fabrics, but for others having the sleeve already 3/4 length looks much nicer.

          2. I have the opposite problem – short arms – but this is also why I love 3/4 length sleeves.

        3. I’m the opposite, I love 3/4 sleeves. Most of the time I end up either rolling or pushing up the sleeves on long-sleeve shirts and jackets.

    3. That’s like, the most unhelpful size chart ever, too. a 4 is a small and an 8 is a medium. Sooo, I’m a 6, and…? Sigh.

      1. I have the same problem. I ordered a small. I’ll post how it fits when I get it. I’ve ordered S at the limited in the past and it fits me nice- but I am flat chested.

  2. Reposting here from previous article:

    Are any NY-r e t t e s’ attending the Lo & sons’s trunk show tonight? I believe you get the chance to place an order online for 40% if you are going. I am dying to buy the O.G. but can’t make it to the event. Let me know if someone is!

    1. You can get 35% with one of the previous codes (I think it’s something like CUPOFJOHOLIDAY, but do a search for it on this site), which is pretty close to the 40% if you can’t make it.

      1. Oooh, thanks! It’s CUPOFJOHOLIDAYS.

        Since I don’t live anywhere near a trunk show, I might just order a couple for myself to see in person (and then obviously return whichever I didn’t want).

      2. THANKS! Found the code! I had signed up but couldn’t make it. 35% is a good deal :)

    2. I went tonight and purchased the Savoy. I was looking for a slightly smaller bag than my current mega tote but I wanted the chance to actually touch the bag and try to squish all my work essentials inside. Really liked the quality of the materials, that is was super light and at 40% off I was a happy gal.

      Many of the women on this site rave about the OMG, and I liked that option as well, because it wasn’t as giant in person as it looks online (although I’m fairly tall). The shoe pocket is brilliant, but the bag wasn’t fulfilling the downsizing goal for me.

      1. I keep looking at these because everyone raves, but I just *SO HATE* nylon. I know it’s lighter. I just think it looks *so cheap*. Which is fine if it’s cheap, but for $300…no. Sigh. I wish I could like it. I keep trying to like it.

        1. I understand that. Which is why I really wanted to go in person and check it out. I’ve been hemming and hawing about the “niceness” of a nylon bag, but as a consultant I run all over town carrying my computer and work files. My back was finally begging for something lighter.

  3. YOU GUYS! I GOT INTO GRADUATE SCHOOL!! SO EXCITED!!

    (But omg is it expensive. Not sure what the final price will end up being (all the financial aid stuff will be handled in the spring) but goodness gracious that sticker price… at least it is for a degree I know has a good shot at paying for itself (MBA) but still… gulp. As someone who luckily graduated undergrad with no debt, the concept of close to six figures of it is terrifying.)

      1. It is a full time 2 yr MBA program. Even though I knew the price up front, I guess I’m still shocked that one year of an MBA program costs almost double one year of (private) undergrad.

    5. Congrats! MBAs are pretty amazingly expensive. After your first semester, see if your school has TA options. You can cut over 10K off the tuition by doing that. One of my friends TA’d something like 3 classes one semester and basically was attending for free.

    6. Call them and try to negotiate for more/any financial aid. Seriously. I am 5 years post-MBA and just finished paying off my private loans. The debt is terrifying. Have fun while you are in school and be social, but know that every dollar is $1.30 once it’s all said and done…so try to economize where you can. And if you aren’t set on any particular school for reasons of geography, alumni or industry, I would definitely try to play any additional offers you get off one another.

    8. Congrats! I am currently procrastinating on my apps by reading this site, so I am both jealous and inspired! :)

    2. WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Another woman here made partner this week too! Way to go!!! As I said to her, I’d love to know more about the qualification/nomination/buy-in process if, when, and to the degree you feel comfortable. So very few women make it these days, so any information you feel comfortable sharing would be really great.

      3. Not the OP, but I’ll share my story, FWIW. Mid-size firm, big city. I’m a 2003 attorney and made partner in 2011. Top 10 law school, always been in litigation, and this was my 3rd firm (that I joined in 2007). Prior to making partner, last litigation partner was made in 2007. Only 1 other female partner (and approx 30 men). My billables were typically between 2700 and 3000 a year from the time I started (and yes, I fully understand how crazy that is). Very little business of my own, but was the main point of contact for several of the equity partners’ clients and my “client whisperer” skills were apparently enough to pass the hurdle of not having a book of business of my own. (Side note, I’ve now built up a book of business that isn’t huge, but is about 300k/yr.) Was nominated by my section head and the executive committee unanimously recommended me to the partnership for a vote. I’m non-equity, which means I didn’t have to put in any money to the partnership. My salary didn’t change, but year-end compensation did. No longer paid as an employee, so none of my taxes are taken out and I have to pay quarterly taxes. Could have set up my own PC, but quite frankly it sounded a little overwhelming and I haven’t done it yet. Sorry for the stream of consciousness…

        1. Don’t be sorry at all. That is incredibly interesting information. I’m not even sure I want to make partner, but it really helps to know what that road could look like. It also seems a bit like laterals have a better shot at making partner than the home-growns. I’m really concerned about the book generation as well.

          Kat, I’d loooooooove a “the process of making partner” thread, which would be applicable to lawyers and big 4 ladies and such at the very least.

          4. I’m not sure that laterals have a better chance of making partner…in my experience, it seemed like the “lifers” had a better chance than people who came in laterally…unlesss you happened to come in as part of a package with a rain-making partner and were able to hit the ground running from the get-go.

          5. Great suggestion! I’m big-4 and seriously considering the partner track, but it is intimidating. From my side the book of business is less of a concern, but the hours are rough.

  5. I was planning on giving my 6th grade daughter a Kindle Fire for her main Christmas present. She likes reading on my old Kindle (more than I do, actually) so I thought she’d like her own, and she’d love the internet access on the Fire. But her class just got iPads at school, and it turns out they’re allowed to use them for personal use too (bringing them home, putting their own apps on) as long as it’s “within reason.” I know people generally say that the Kindle is a better e-reader than the iPad, and I do think she’d use it for reading. I have Amazon Prime, so it will be easy for her to download books on to the Kindle to read. But is it just too duplicative of the iPad?
    (bear in mind that I need to give her some “wow” present for Christmas anyway, and I don’t have anything else good in mind if the Kindle isn’t it)

    1. I don’t typically think of myself as old.

      However, when I was in 6th grade, I was still looking things up in the Encyclopedia Brittanica in the school library.

      While dinosaurs strolled past the windows, apparently…

      1. Ditto. I can’t believe that grade 6-ers are being given iPads by their schools when I can’t even justify getting one myself. The old fogey in me says that they should be looking things up the old-fashioned way. Grumble, grumble.

        2. My six-year-old started using Google and PowerPoint in kindergarten. The PowerPoint part, in particular, makes me kind of sad.

          I need to go finish my PowerPoint presentation now . . . .

          1. My husband just got an iPad for work, and our 5 year old keeps teaching us new features that we didn’t know existed. He also repeatedly has tried to teach my parents to operate the Tivo, which is an expert at, despite the fact that he can’t read more than a few words.

      2. I looove the image of large scaly creatures strolling past the windows!

          1. Yes, we can which one is Godzilla because she’s the fashionable one.

    2. I know lots of folks with both a kindle and an ipad. Not a kindle fire, just a kindle and now you could get her a paperwhite so she could read in the dark!

    3. Not sure what the answer is, but iPad has an excellent Kindle app so I don’t think the Amazon-compatibility would be a huge plus for the Kindle Fire. I own a first gen. Kindle but never use it. I read all my Kindle books on my iPhone or iPad (yes, I have too much technology — blame my tech-loving husband).

    4. Spoken as someone who has done a LOT of doc review over the years, if the iPad is school-issued, does that mean she has no expectation of privacy as to anything she puts on it? Is there a nanny software that sees everything she does? You should read that contract carefully. You may want to get her the Fire just so that she can have some privacy from her school.

      1. On a similar note…doesn’t she have to give the iPad back at the end of the school year?

      3. I had the same thought. Frankly, I’d never use my someone-else-issued-anything for anything other than work (says the lady posting on this site on her work computer — sigh).

    5. I would get her an actual Kindle with an e-ink screen, not the Fire. Reading on a lit screen is just not the same.

      1. This would be my deal – get the Kindle paperwhite for the wow, but there’s going to be a lot of overlap between the Fire and the iPad. The e-ink is much nicer for reading purposes, and it’s a bit smaller (right?) than the Ipad, so there’s not as much lugging?

        1. And she can put the Kindle app on the iPad, so that if she is caught somewhere with the iPad but not the Kindle, she can still get to the book that she’s been reading on the Kindle. (Although the pages won’t be synched unless she had the wifi turned on on the Kindle.) I’d go with the Kindle Paperwhite instead of the iPad. See the recent review of the various readers in the New York Times by David Pogue.

      2. I second this – and with the price difference, you could get her a large amazon giftcard for e-books to start her library. I would have died with happiness at that gift at her age (or any age for that matter).

        1. Ditto to this.

          Intentionally bought my daughter a “regular” kindle with the e-ink screen because I knew she would want it for reading books and e-ink is supposed to be the best for that.

          I think the kindle Fire excels at movies/video/games.

    6. My middle schoolers have lovely Mac laptops they bring home every day for homework, and they steal my Kindle constantly. It’s smaller than an iPad and easier to carry around, plus it will be solely hers and the school won’t be able to spy.

    7. I have a Kindle and an iPad. The iPad is much (much!) too heavy for an extended reading session for me — can’t imagine it’d be better for a sixth-grader.

      1. Yes! My ipad makes my wrist hurt if I read for longer than a half hour without putting it on a table or something.

    8. You guys all rock, thanks so much for the input! I’m not so worried about the privacy aspect (though I can see why it might be relevant for, say, a high school student). But, duh, of course they have to give it back at the end of the year, I didn’t even think of that! And the size is a good point too. Now I just have to decide between the Fire (which I already ordered and have in my possession) and the paperwhite. I know I’d like the paperwhite better, but the Fire does have more “wow” factor for an 11 year old.

    9. The other thing you can do with your Prime account on the Kindle Fire is watch movies online. It’s pretty cool!

    10. I actually hate reading on my Kindle Fire and now mostly use it for watching movies and tv shows (no ipad here). I still break out my 2nd Generation Kindle for actual reading. It’s so much easier on the eyes, and I like that I can hold it one handed and change pages with one hand, even when it’s my left hand (the kindle fire turns the page by tapping the right side of the screen only).

      1. This is why I haven’t yet traded in my 2nd Gen. for a Fire, even though I WANT a tablet… the whole point of the Kindle for me was that it’s not like reading on a screen, which I hate.

  7. Has anyone felt cringey and eye-rolley at a company party having to chat with women your age who are clearly the trophy wives/gfs (who of course all happen to work in fashion) of the managers/senior execs in your company?

    I’m sorry if I sound horrible and stereotypey, but I am dreading this happening at my upcoming company holiday party.

    1. I’m sure I am doing myself no favors by using those silly words to express myself…

    2. Cheer up. When you see a trophy-looking woman at my workplace holiday party, it’s because the CEO hires people based on the following criteria: young (under 30); female; attractive; underqualified. I presume most of them are also underpaid.

      1. Just to be clear, these are not employees of the company but just women I have to chat up/be nice to at our intimate holiday dinner because they are the spouses of the seniors. It doesn’t really matter if they work or are underpaid – their husbands are rich men who run the company I work for.

        1. But would you want to be married to them? You get to go home. Being a trophy wife is a 24 hour job.

        2. It is theoretically possible that some of these trophy wives have brains, but keep their smarts under wraps to conform to expectations. You just have to learn how to flush out the smarties hiding among the marshmallows.

          As a military wife, I was expected to cheerfully dish on kids and casseroles with the other wives… Every once in a while, amid the recipes, one of the other stepford wives displayed a flash of intellect, and we hit it off.

          The best way I’ve found to flush out fellow braniacs is to inject a controversial issue (pro choice, girls in science and math, war in Iraq, black nail polish) into the discussion, and see who bit.

          1. I like your comment, but I just have to ask, is girls in science and math a controversial topic in some circles? Yikes!

          2. I wouldn’t have known “girls in science and math” was controversial, either, until I stepped on that landmine. When I suggested that public education should encourage girls to study STEM fields, I discovered that some people believe that inherent gender differences are solely responsible for the dearth of females in STEM.

            This topic quickly separated the feminist wheat in the room from the brainwashed chaff. ;-)

          3. On reading this entire thread: Wow!
            – I bite back the urge to make pro choice comments because my opinions are so scorched-earth (not blindly pro abortion, but _very very very_ pro having the choice) that I’d be afraid of instantly clearing the room.
            – LOL re “feminist wheat” vs. “brainwashed chaff” but what about asking people about what they like to read in their free time? Seems like that would flush out the brainiacs just as well without scaring h*ll out of the non-intellectuals.
            – I’m all for more girls & women in STEM fields but as a confirmed humanist myself (due to personal cognitive wiring, not b/c of my gender) I also want to encourage people not to overlook the verbal/visual/artistic side of life.

            Maybe I’m just too much a product of my times and upbringing (encouraged both to have strong opinions and to go easy on laying them on other people). OTOH I haven’t totally given up the idea of finding common ground with people on the other side of this or any other issue.Deep down I’m still hoping that everybody can all get along despite our considerably different opinions on you name it (repro choice, being a wife, domestic economic policy, fundamentalist XYZ vs. fundamentalist ABC….) But that’s probably another post.

      2. I know it’s somewhat obnoxious to complain about this, but I happen to be a very pretty, stylish, fit and young woman. I’m also really smart (and humble, obviously!). It bugs me that the assumption is that the young, pretty ones are all hired (or married) to be trophies. Maybe they’re also smart and interesting and charming people. Some people are blessed with looks and brains. Grumbling about talking to pretty people before you’ve even given them a chance is just as insensitive as bullying (maybe not the exact same, but it’s still insensitive.)

        1. I’ll go ahead and say I am NOT young or hot enough to be mistaken for anyone’s trophy! I just try to tell myself: if you don’t want to be written off for your appearance, try not to write anyone else off for theirs.

          1. This is a wonderful attitude, and I commend, commend, commend you. I believe in kindness whenever you have a choice. (I was once a public defender, got a lot of acquittals I shouldn’t have, but my terrible weakness was tearing up during a victim’s testimony — the victim I would shortly have to cross-examine.)

            I am no longer young, thank goodness, and less attractive than I was. But the thing is: some people get lucky in the genetic pool. I did. I ended up with a ridiculous body — full rack, tiny waist, rounded bottom, long legs. I was also, by pure dumb luck, born with an even-featured symmetrical face. Because I attended UCLA — the campus is riddled with Playboy scouts and other dubious “photographers,”– I was asked several times to pose for Playboy. And my English professor referred me to a well-known Playboy photographer. Really gross. Anyway, I didn’t go and never considered it.

            But, I was really shunned by a lot of otherwise nice women. One friend told me that it was just really hard to be my friend because of all the approaches by men at bars, because I got good grades, and because I was nice. She wished I wasn’t.

            In law school, same thing. I learned to wear loose shirts and pants, no make-up, was friendly, and did make a few female friends. But most women just shut me out assuming I was . . . bad? evil? a slut? got by on my looks? I don’t know. I did a lot of introspection, thinking it must be something, or some attitude I projected, and I redoubled by efforts to look like everybody and be kind. It didn’t help that I’m a hopeless introvert and that is often mistaken for being uppity or superior.

            Same thing happened in my law firm. I dressed conservatively, skirts at knee level, no tight tops, BB suits. I liked all the women, basically, but only one –also a good looking lady — became a friend.

            The thing is this, and I’ll end this novel shortly: I had a horrible, mean, terrible, scary, awful childhood. My mother was alcoholic, narcissistic, and mentally ill, and attempted suicide — the attention-getting kind, not the serious stuff — at least 3 – 4 times per year. She was in and out of mental hospitals, and I was often alone for weeks when my primary step-dad (I had three) was travelling. Or, if she was out of the hospital, I’d come home from school and she’d be dead drunk, unconscious, on the floor. My third step-dad molested me nightly from ages 5 – 12, with my mother’s willful blindness.

            So, in short, when you see a pretty woman, you never know what’s behind her facade.
            And, maybe, she didn’t luck out in the brains department like you and I did, and she’s doing what she can to get thru life. You don’t know … maybe the trophy wife adopts shelter dogs, and does other kind deeds when she’s not at a party. Maybe she feels inferior to you because you are a lawyer — or whatever you do.

            You don’t know how I envy your posts about your loving moms and dads, and having been raised in a normal family, with love and security and knowledge that someone will always be there for you and won’t take advantage of you.

            As Gandhi said: My religion is kindness. No harm being nice to a pretty woman. You might find a lady who hopes for your kindness.

          2. Wow, Changing my name for this, I’m so sorry you went though all that. I hope you’re in a better place now. Thank you for sharing what must have been an incredibly painful experience.

        2. I have to agree with you. I happen to be attractive AND smart, and I’m also currently dating/will likely marry a man who’s a few years older & makes a lot more money than I do. It’s entirely possible that one day I will stay home to raise kids while he works 90+ hour weeks, but I’d hate to have someone write me off as a “trophy wife” simply because I’m attractive and my significant other is in a management role/makes a lot of money.

          I’m sure part of the reason my SO likes me is because he finds me attractive, but I know he also loves that I had an obsession with reading Abigail Adams biographies as a kid, that I scored higher than he did on the SATs, and that I beat out many older (most of them male) candidates for my current, pretty awesome job.

        3. I totally agree with this. I am constantly treated as if I got hired for my looks. However, I went to a T-1 law school and have worked my b*tt off to get where I am. Additionally, most people assume that my SO is with me because of my age and looks but don’t know the reality.

          Being judged is awful, whether it’s because you are thin or fat, pretty or ugly, etc. I live in a very image-conscious city and despise being judged based on my looks.

    3. I have a tendency to feel this way, but I’m trying to work on being better about it. (In my case, it’s just my own insecurity from being bullied by the “pretty” girls when I was younger so being all catty about it is entirely unhelpful.) Is there anything you can find that you admire about them? If they’re really, truly just trophies with nothing in their heads or hearts, then that’s hard. But most people do have something interesting to say. Can you ask about favorite hobbies, or about their work in fashion? Do they have any thoughts on new trends for the next season? Any secrets they can share (best places/times to shop etc.)? Or is there anything at all you have in common with them? Similar vacations? Do you and they have kids the same/similar ages? You have the advantage in that it’s your office party and they probably don’t know as many people. I always assume the pretty girls don’t want to talk to me or are at home in any situation, but that’s so often not true. You could do your good deed of the holiday season and make some of them feel welcome.

      1. Not to toot my own horn, but I was always considered ‘one of the pretty girls’ — difference is I forged my own ‘overachieving chick’ career path and gave up the idea of being someone’s trophy. It’s more about the disappointment I feel that they are playing out the pretty girl stereotype by going into fashion and marrying rich older men, and I am showing up as a lawyer with my SO who is underemployed and my age. It’s a stark contrast and feels odd, because we are exactly the same age as 3 of said women.

        1. Um. I’d like to point out that fashion is a completely legitimate career path that can take as much or more drive to succeed in as many other career paths. Some of the best, brightest and most driven career women I know I met while working in apparel.

          1. Saying that all the execs’ trophy wives are in fashion does not mean the same thing as saying all women in fashion become trophy wives. One of the execs even remarked to me once how his wife and her fashion friends all make like $45k so he is always stuck paying for all of them when they go out.

          2. Uh. Making $45K in fashion also does not mean you are not smart, driven or intelligent and worthy of conversation either so I’m really unsure as to how that is indicative of their argument. If they are young, as you say, then that’s not an uncommon early career salary in the fashion industry, depending what you go into.

            Seriously – I feel like women get enough patronization about how “pretty girls/trophy wives/models/PR reps/whatever don’t think, they just stand there and look pretty” from MEN. Do we have to do it to each other?

          4. +1

            Fashion/retail is a totally misunderstood occupation. It’s competitive and total churn and burn – few people (especially women with families) last beyond a few years.

        2. I wrote my reply before you read yours. It is probably not applicable to you. Sorry!

          1. before *I* read yours – or before *you* wrote yours. UGH. Back to hearing prep.

        3. Honestly? Get over it and be nice. You can’t control what they did or didn’t do with their lives, and it’s only going to make you grumpy if you look down at them for not doing things the way you decided to do it. They played the hand they were dealt the best way they knew how, and so did you.

          Go in with an open mind and maybe you’ll be surprised.

        4. Wow. I’m sorry, but you seem to be on an awfully high horse. You have no idea what goes on in those marriages. My uncle is 27 years older than my aunt and their marriage is one of the best, most loving marriages I know. And let me tell you, they get pretty sick of people making assumptions about the quality of their marriage based solely on their respective ages. Also, unless you once held the same jobs they do, you don’t actually know what these women do all day. Even if they did marry for money, as the saying goes, that’s a hard way to earn a living.

        5. I think what you are missing here is that everyone wasn’t born as smart as you. To become a lawyer, you need a pretty damn high I.Q., a good attention span, an ability to test well, etc.

          I feel a tad testy about this — “I’m pretty, and I’m a lawyer, and they just settled for trophy wife,” because my own son was born with a normal-range I.Q., ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. He has a high school diploma, barely, and there is no way he can go to college and be a lawyer or MBA or doctor. He’s going to trade school, and already makes decent money repairing cars and mo-peds on the side. Not everybody is equipped to be a lawyer or a doctor. In fact, most people are not.

          My point is: not every is born equally in the smarts department. The bell curve is real, and most posters here are way.above.average. So lay off the pretty people; they probably weren’t graced with the same brains, drive, and attention span that you were.

      2. +1 to this. I totally get the catty feelings because sometimes I feel them too, but it’s really not your (or my) place to judge someone’s life and it’s also kind of unfair/sexist to assume that someone isn’t smart or interesting because of her looks, the industry she works in, or the age/wealth of her husband. This is what I have to remind myself of all the time, so believe me, I get that it’s not easy.

        1. Thank you, I love how we can express the things we fear to say out loud here and there’s always a corporette who can confess to the same feelings without judgement. You are completely right. I always tell myself “let them have that life, I’ll take my hot young bf who I love unquestionably without ever taking into account his bank account” whenever I feel the cattiness coming on…

    4. Try not to immediately judge someone for being attractive. I fit a lot of stereotypes. I’m blonde, friendly and outgoing, and have big boobs. When I was first starting out, I felt like I was constantly fighting the stereotype that others “knew why I was hired.” My friendly outgoing was misinterpreted as flirty when if someone of other looks acted the same they would be seen as inclusive. While my appearance may have opened some doors for me initially (without my ever even being aware of it until after) it was my competence that allowed me to stay and thrive. Some of those “trophy wives” may actually just be very attractive professionals. Give them a chance. I by know means consider myself “trophy wife” status but I got sick of being the pariah. I’ve said before that my husband and I were both in law enforcement. At one of the his first socials I had tables of police wives gossiping about me while their husbands were all visiting our table to “get to know the new guys’ wife.” I wasn’t seeking out the attention and was frankly, annoyed and embarrassed by it. It sucked being hated on by other women who hadn’t even taken the time to talk to me. Later, they all said they were shocked to learn I was also in law enforcement and going to law school. They just assumed I was some cheerleader looking for a sugar daddy. (While police don’t make a ton of money they have their own “fan club” of “interesting” women that turn up.)

    5. I feel cringey and eye-rolley about having to chat with anyone at my company’s holiday party. I try to focus discussion on the weather and I try to get other people to say funny things. Then I duck out as early as possible.

    6. They’re probably feeling cringey / eye-rolly at having to make small-talk with all the boring and bitter lawyers.

        1. Holy smokes – are you just going to keep on going until you get someone to agree that they are equally annoyed to have to talk to young trophy wives?

          Occasional conversations with people whose life choices you don’t understand = part of life. Deal with it?

          1. First Q: Yes.

            Second Q: I am, by seeking commiseration on this site as other do on a daily basis with their often-irrational complaints and chirps. I found a taker ;)

          2. anon: i raise my glass of fondue to you, with a healthy sprinkling of commiseration…. I often find myself getting judgy before i even walk into situations and then I work myself up over it till i’m in a bad mood, it is so counterproductive, but i keep forgetting to tell myself that. ;o)

      2. anon: i raise my glass of fondue to you, with a healthy sprinkling of commiseration…. I often find myself getting judgy before i even walk into situations and then I work myself up over it till i’m in a bad mood, it is so counterproductive, but i keep forgetting to tell myself that. ;o)

        1. It seems the OP assumed there’s nothing in common between her and the other women without having explored that option. Why not try first, judge and maybe then cringe?

    7. I don’t work in fashion, but I’ve at times felt like the spouse who is on the receiving end of the eyerolls. The frustrating part is being constrained by political considerations to keep to inane conversation topics, and then being judged for it. It’s also strange how people’s expectations can color their interpretation of what you say… my husband had one coworker who would totally overlook any irony, sarcasm, or humor in comment I made, and not-at-all subtly roll her eyes at my apparent stupidity. Oh well, company holiday parties are usually pretty painful for spouses of any stripe, but there are worse things in life than a few hours of mind-numbing cocktail party chatter ameliorated with generous amounts of free booze.

  8. PSA for those looking for sequins dresses. There are currently several below the $100 mark at Nords t r o m!

    1. I just bought one this weekend. And have no reason to look for another one… and yet here I am on the Nordstrom’s website…

    2. I feel like we should have a ‘r e t t e party where we can all wear sequined skirts/dresses.

      1. And/or fancy-pants dresses you don’t never have an excuse to wear anywhere else.

        In fact, I feel like this could have the makings of a really solid weekend evening C-r e t t e meet-up.

        1. I would like to clarify that “don’t never” was the result of some sloppy editing/revising, NOT BECAUSE I ACTUALLY TALK LIKE THAT. For the love of all that’s fonduey.

  9. Ladies, what’s the protocol with gifts on super heavy sale? Say I would normally spend less than $50 on a person and I find an item that always costs much more, say $150 or so, for around that price because I use coupons, birthday discount, etc. Will it be awkward if the giftee thinks my gift was substantially more expensive than what they got me? Does this bear explaining? Am I thinking about this too hard?

    1. You are thinking too hard. Enjoy the fact that the item is on sale and think no more about it.

      1. Yup. The only time I would ever consider mentioning it would be to my mom, because she’s the type that would make comments about “This is too much, you should be saving your money.” In this case a short, “I really loved it and it was on sale, I hope you enjoy it” should suffice.

        For everyone else, I don’t worry about it. Just give yourself a pat on the back for finding an awesome deal :)

    2. I get what you’re saying – I do try to be careful not to buy on too steep a discount, because it may make the recipient feel uncomfortable or that they need to reciprocate, and if they return it, it may come to light very quickly.

    3. I always try to stretch to the max when giving gifts so people get the best that I can give them (does not always have to mean money wise, however). I have no issue giving gifts that are expensive, but I found a good deal on. (I would also have no issue giving someone a Groupon or similar, but I think that’s a bit more in your face ‘look at this deal!’ and I think some people are uncomfortable with that).

      If someone got me something really nice, I would obviously express gratitude, and maybe surprise (“Oh wow, thank you so much! I definitely didn’t expect anything this nice!”) but that would be the extent of my thinking about the cost of the item. So I wouldn’t worry about it.

    4. I usually make a comment about the great deal I got on it, particularly if it is a situation where there is a set limit. “I just had to buy this for you. I knew you would really like it and it was such a great sale I couldn’t pass it up.”

    5. I love when this happens, because I love to get a great deal on something really nice. I’m perfectly happy to let them think I spent more on it, but I’d never actively try to give that impression. OTOH, I’m rarely paying $50 for $150 item — it’s usually more like I paid $15 for this $50 item. If that makes a difference.

  10. A day late but not a dollar short – it was really great to see all of you who came to the DC meetup on Monday! Hope to see you again soon!

  11. I could use some advice…

    I’m starting a new job in January (yay!). I’ve been given info about the health insurance plans available to choose from and I’m struggling to decide which one to pick.

    Historically, the bulk of my healthcare expenditures have been from prescription medications. Plan X has a three tired formulary; Plan Y charges you 10% of the cost of the medication after you have met your deductible.

    Does anyone know where I can find out the costs of drugs in order to calculate the 10% so I can compare to the formulary costs?

    1. You could ask at the pharmacy where you plan to get your prescriptions filled. You could also call the insurance companies and ask about your specific medications.

    2. You can get the cost of your drugs from a pharmacy. What is much harder, is finding out where on the formulary your drugs fall when you are not a member of the plan. It took me almost six hours of phone calls with my husband’s various insurance carriers. I was first told that the forumulary was proprietary information. Much of it, however, was published online. My meds just weren’t on it and they didn’t want to tell me which tier they would be on if I went with them. I finally got someone to confirm the tier and I learned that for me, it was FAR cheaper to pay a $40 copay than 10% of my drug. Brand name drugs with no generic can often run thousands of dollars.

      1. I actually have access to the formulary, so I know what my costs will be under that plan.

    3. I’m petty sure if you sign up for CVS’s online pharmacy, it gives you the pricing of various medications. I would imagine other places like Walgreens have similar features.

    4. I am not well informed about this, but I think that the cost varies depending on the pharmacy you use and possibly also which insurance plan. A few years ago I was comparing similar plans and I just called my regular pharmacy and asked them to ballpark costs for me. I did switch to the non-tiered plan and the costs weren’t exact, but it was enough to figure out how much to add to my HSA that year and get it pretty much right.

      1. Too slow! Like Blonde Lawyer mentioned, my proprietary formulation (Singulair) was VERY expensive. If you’re not entirely on generics, definitely do some serious research at multiple pharmacies. My insurance company offered a mail-order option where the third month of a 90-day refill was free so that made the costs manageable. Luckily I’m back on a plan that works better for me and all my current prescriptions are generics. :)

  12. For the person who posted in one of the threads earlier today about possibly taking an extra BCP – I asked a friend of mine who is a pharmacist. She confirmed you should just keep taking on pill a day and not skip any days, no back-up required.

    1. Thanks for following up! Also, I am having a generally crappy day, work-wise, so the fact that you asked your friend and then came back and posted really makes me feel cared about, so really thank you.

  13. Anyone else having issues with Sallie Mae? Supposedly my loan payment is “over 14 days late,” but it’s usually not due until the 19th… ugh…

    1. Have you checked to see whether they processed last month’s payment? That could be why it is showing as late. If you login online you can see your statements and check to see what they have as your due date and see when they last processed a payment.

      But yes, in general, I hated them so much I did everything I could to pay them off as fast as possible be ause I had an issue with them every single month that required a phone call on my part to fix it and always took forever.

      1. Oh and double check your bank statements to see when the last payment you made went through in case it is a payment processing issue.

  14. Oh and double check your bank statements to see when the last payment you made went through in case it is a payment processing issue.

    1. J.Crew used to make really great wool slippers, not fur lined. They looked like ballet flats almost. They did not make them this year, but I have had great luck finding them (for good prices) on ebay.

    2. Lands End has a a few pairs that aren’t fur/fleece lined. I won’t post links to avoid moderation, but check out the “Velvet Skimmer Slippers” and the “Flower Clog Slippers.”

    4. Maybe the brand DeerFoam? I would say check Macy’s, JCP, possibly Lands End/LL Bean. These places always seem to have ballet/satin/regular fabric slippers abounding, especially around the holidays. VsScret might also have some. They had a cute pair of terrycloth slippers awhile back.

    5. I have a pair of Minnetonka moccasins that I wear as slippers (they make two kinds; one with rubber soles for outside wear, and one with leather soles for inside wear). They are very cozy and I love them. Highly recommended.

    6. ISOTONER Women’s Classic Satin Ballerina Slipper
      They remind me of my grandmother, but I always have 2-3 pairs around the house. Soft, washable, come in many colors, padded bottom, not fleece lined, love love love! I put them on as soon as I get home.

      1. I just found a ton of these at Marshall’s and got 2 pairs for my mom, FYI.

    7. I got a pair of Smarwool slippers as a gift a few years ago. Still love them, still going strong.

  15. Question for midwestern readers: I just moved to Milwaukee from the east coast, and live in a building with staff (three employees in the leasing office who get packages and deal with requests from residents, and one person who fixes stuff). What should I give them for the holidays? And if cash is best (I assume it is, from their perspective), how much? I’d ask around in the building but I rarely run into other residents.

    1. Welcome to Wisconsin!

      I have no idea as to amount b/c I’m not sure if you’re living somewhere swanky/downtown or, say, in the 3rd Ward — but I’d say anywhere from $25 to $50 per person depending on your building. I know this isn’t that helpful. I would do cash for sure.

      1. Thanks a lot! Yes I live in a pretty nice place. I’ll give in the upper range of your suggestion (they’re nice and quite helpful, and it’s a lot less than the amounts I’m used to).

    2. Welcome to Wisconsin! I’d say you could go on the low end of that and would probably be okay.

  16. Question inspired by a situation a friend of mine is facing: If you feel that a senior person at work has treated you in a way that is demonstrably unfair, and you think it was motivated, at least in part, by sexism, when you raise the issue with management do you just say why you think it was unfair, or do you also talk about the sexism?

    My inclination would be to focus just on the unfairness and not raise sexism, but I think, on a macro level, women aren’t doing ourselves any favors if we never call out sexism where we see it. What do you think?

    1. I’d stick to the facts, whatever they are. If a retelling of the facts suggests sexism, there it is. If it’s more of a murky *feeling*, I’d leave it out (no matter how accurate it might be).

    2. You say “demonstrably unfair” — using legal jargon, I assume that that means that a similarly situated male was treated differently in a comparable circumstance. If so, that is the issue being raised with management and sexism is implied, right? If she has additional reasons to believe that sexism is the motivating cause, like comments that have been made to her, she should share those, too, to explain why she feels she is being treated unfairly. Then management is on notice.

      1. I don’t want to give too many details of my friend’s situation, but there was an action that was unfair separate and apart from whatever motivated the senior person to take that action. Friend suspects that sexism motivated the action, but does not have a direct comparison to a similarly situated man. Friend is not contemplating a lawsuit or anything, but wants to raise it with the employer to get the unfair action reversed.

        1. I’d stick to the unfairness. I do this for a living and unfortunately bringing up possible underlying discrimination can cause a lot more problems for a person in your friend’s position. If there are not clear facts showing discrimination, the employer often decides that the employee is the problem, not the supervisor. If there are clear facts, then let those speak for themselves without further comments.

    3. You have to learn to roll with the punche’s, my mom and dad say. I have had SO many expereinence’s where I could cry foul, I have learned NOT to do so, and it has paid off. Would I ever have even THOUGHT I would be considered for partner if I called out the manageing partner every time he stared at my tuches, or said that I should wear certain thing’s that the judge would like? Of course NOT. In the big theme of life, I have learned that alot of peeople, including men, like to think they are BIG MEN ON CAMPUSS, or BMOC’s as we used to say. So let them think so! In the Mean time, I am now goeing to be considered for PARTNER, when so many peeople in law school NEVER estimeated me for this.

      Most guy’s just thought I would get MARRIED, and have kid’s and let my husband do all the work. Some times I wish I had that, but I am INDEPENDENT and do not need a man to suport me, especialy if I make PARTNER!

      So I know it is dificult, some times, but try and grin and bare it, unless the guy is a total dick, and in that case, make your best case and be prepared to leave (or sue), but you will NOT make partner if you do. Good luck. HOPEFULLY the hive will understand my position, that I have to do what I have to do to get a head. There is NOTHEING wrong with that.

    1. OMG. I saw that when a friend posted that on FB. Mind you, I’m not a huge fan of leggings to begin with (and particularly leggings as pants) but… no, just all kinds of no.

      1. I must be hanging out in the wrong (or right?) circles because I have not seen a single megging around here. And now I really really hope I never do.

    5. My whole problem with this is simply: LEGGINGS ARE NOT PANTS.

      I wouldn’t wear leggings as pictured either. Why should men get to? He needs a skirt. Or a tunic. Or a kilt. Something to cover his bits.

  18. So, this seems like a really silly question. I’d like a nice robe for Christmas. But I’m really conflicted on what kind to buy or whether a nice robe is even worth it. Do your robes get all icky around the neck after a while? My current one has and I’m not sure if that’s from something I do wrong (maybe putting my moisturizer on while wearing the robe?) or just the nature of a robe. I don’t want to spend a bunch on it if I just have to replace it after a few years. Also, my first thought was a cashmere robe, but then that would be too warm during the summer. Do y’all have different summer and winter robes?

    And if anybody has a nice robe to recommend, please do so!

    1. Do you have long hair? For me the first suspicion from neck ickiness would be hair product runoff. Personally, I think robes are a great daily luxury and I think you should get one! I have a terrycloth one for cold weather and I use a men’s shirt if i want an extra layer in the summer (my late father’s, for sentimental reasons, hope that’s not tmi).

    2. I put my make-up on in my robe, so it gets icky from that. I buy white terry cloth ones (like hotel robes) and bleach the cr@p out of them on the regular . I got my current one from Lands End in 2005, and it’s still going strong. In the summer I use a cheap, knee-length knit robe.

      1. I have a high-quality flannel robe that I also wash the heck out of and it’s not icky. Flannel wears out more quickly (still, mine is probably four years old?), but I can comfortably wear it in all four seasons.

        I wouldn’t do a dry clean only robe.

    3. I wear a fleece robe in the winter and a cotton kimono in the summer. Both easily washable. I don’t find I get too much neck ickiness, though, but then again I don’t put on makeup wearing my bathrobe – I get dressed first.

    4. Mine gets icky around the neck as well, but I wash it about once a quarter with a load of towels. I have a super fuzzy one from B@th and B0dy W0rks that I wear the colder half of the year, and a mid-thigh jersey-weight one I got at M@rshalls the warmer half of the year. I love swanning around in them in the morning after my shower; I feel I am less likely to get makeup and hair product on my clothes, and it buys a little bit more time when I’m not wearing a suit!

    6. I have a soft jersey robe by Natori and love it. Easy to wash, warm enough with layers, cool enough to wear over slinkier PJs in summer. If you don’t want to spend so much on Natori (although I got mine on sale), Calvin Klein makes nice once, and I saw some really nice jersey robes at JCP recently/I want a whole PJ wardrobe made out of the JCP jersey fabric.

    7. How do you mean icky?

      I love robes, btw. You should totally get one. Cashmere is not my favorite though – besides the whole summer issue, it can be a touch linty if you’re not wearing it over things (which is the whole point) and it’s a pain to wash. I think you need to decide if you want something short or long. My preference is for long, and by long I mean really long, not mid calf. I also pick up light short robes on sale for vacations/summer, but I assume you mean a more traditional robe.

      1. The current one I have is just sort of yellow around the neck. It’s odd.

        So what kind of robe would you get if you were splurging, AIMS? I have decided I want a knee length one but am unsure of the fabric.

        1. What color was it to begin with? I use acne products that cause weird discoloration on some dyes– usually some shade of blue.

    8. I have 4 robes. I bought one, the rest were gifts, all are machine-washable. 1 flannel, 2 short cotton, 1 super-soft amazingly-cuddly one with a hood that I only wear in the winter (it’s from Bath and Body Works, of all places). Costco near me had super-cuddly robes for $15-20 when I was there 2 weeks ago, and I would definitely get one of those if I didn’t already have my cuddly one.

    9. What type of robe? The silky type? The cotton/terry type? A stylish version of a housecoat?

      I have a terry robe, and I had to buy at least 4 (Lands’ end, saks, VS, and at least 2 others) before I was happy. I ended up getting a men’s terry robe from brook s brothers, in a small. I’m very tall, so it worked out fine. Nothing else was heavy enough for what I wanted. It was in the $80-$100 price range when I got it, about 5 years ago.

    10. I have two robes. A jersey, knee-length black robe with elbow-length sleeves for summer and a very poofy white fleecy robe for winter. The white robe (in part as a result of how fluffy it is and how high it sits around my neck) is getting discolored by my face. I’ll bleach it eventually and if that doesn’t work, eventually get a new one.

  19. Work/friendship question. A position has come open at my office. My supervisor encouraged me to apply and said that I have a good chance of getting it. The problem is that a good friend wants the spot and will be hurt if I get it over her. I’m going to talk to her before applying but what do I say?

    1. Do YOU want the position? That should be your primary consideration. It doesn’t matter if your supervisor wants you to apply if you don’t think you’d like the job. If you do want the job, your friend will be sad for herself but happy for you if you get it.

    2. I wouldn’t talk to her about it… I would just apply if you want it, don’t apply if you don’t want it. Talk to her after you get it.

    3. I do want the position. I would have to walk past her office to the interview so she would know that I applied.

      1. It just seems so unlikely this needs to be true. Can you walk a different direction? Start walking by her office several times a day for no reason? Ask the interviewer to please reserve a conference room on another floor so that it doesn’t become public knowledge you are applying? And really what’s wrong with applying anyway? You’re friends yes, but also both looking out for your own careers.

    4. Why would you talk to your friend about it? Just apply and may the best woman win!

    5. If you have specifically spoken with your friend about this position before, then I might give her a casual heads up, like “Just wanted you to hear it from me that I threw my hat in the ring.” But you don’t owe an apology or any further explanation. Good luck!

  20. I have different summer and winter robes, neither one of which probably qualifies as a “nice robe.” I’ve found that I’m happier when I wash them every other week or so, which means they do wear out sooner than I’d like, but they always feel pretty fresh. I think the ickiness around the neck is a combination of putting the robe on when I’m still pretty damp from my shower, and applying the moisturizer while wearing the robe, neither of which I’m willing to give up.

    My favorite summer robe is a soft cotton, with a sort of embossed design that gives it a texture and a little structure without much weight. I’ve had an LLBean chamois robe (too heavy), a terry cloth robe (a little rough), a fleece robe (the right weight, the right warmth, just a little too . . . slippery). I should put a French terry cloth robe on my Christmas list, or maybe find another fleece that isn’t so slippery.

  21. It’s finals. I need help deciding what color to get my nails done for a holiday gathering later this week. Advice? I’m generally a dark grey to red person. Specific brands/ names of colors would be *greatly* appreciated.

    1. My new favourite holiday nail polish is Deborah Lippmann’s “Cleopatra in New York”. Black with gold flecks that kind of look like a mini-galaxy on your fingers. Awesome. I want to wear it every day.

    2. I’d vote against Essie’s Wicked. The color bleeds all over and I haven’t had a manicure chip faster. It looked so pretty in the bottle :(.

    3. For reds, I love Revlon’s Valentine (a dark red/cranberry) or Raven Red (more of a burgundy/wine). I also like Essie in Over The Knee for a neutral color with just a hint of sparkle.

    4. I just got Essie’s Bobbing for Baubles and I love it. It’s sort of between navy and dark gray. For a holiday party, I’d probably add a little glitter topcoat just at the base of my nails. Silver glitter would look very nice with it.

  22. Maybe it’s too late in the day for much help, but I just found out I will be traveling to San Diego for a few days in January for a work assignment. I live in the far northern Midwest, so I really have no idea how to dress for California in January. Right now my work wardrobe consists of wool skirts, dark tights, cardigans and blazers. My weekend wardrobe consists of long johns and down parkas! I’m an attorney, but don’t particularly need to be in professional wear– I just want to look presentable and hopefully not too out of place. Thoughts?

    Also hoping the hive can give me some ideas on where to eat, what to do, etc etc in my downtime!

    1. When I’ve had to go to southern California or the southwest for business in the winter, I’ve always been surprised at how wintery the women there dress. To me, it seems like a tropical paradise, so I feel like I should wear summery suits, but they don’t. A friend of mine who moved to LA explained it to me – if we didn’t wear fall and winter clothes even if it’s 65 degrees out, when would we get to wear all those cute sweaters? The only difference, I think, is they tend to wear wintery colors, but not as heavy a weight as you would in the Midwest this time of year. So you’d definitely want to wear your darker colors, but in a lighter weight fabric. Three season wool for a skirt, instead of a heavy flannel; a lighter weight merino cardigan, instead of a heavy wool.

    2. But it’s only 3pm in California. :-) I think the Cali-women start to come out now. Gus is right–wintery colors and fabrics just in a lighter weight. Remember too, that “cold” in Southern California is 60 degrees.

      I think skirts would be great for a visiting Midwesterner–not super insulating so you overheat but still in line with what others will be wearing. Just leave your tights at home. Unless you are somewhere very formal, I’d also leave the blazers at home and go with cardigans on top. Bring your lightest weight shells. Or, skip the cardigan, and bring a heavy weight shell that you feel comfortable wearing as a top. Bring a lightweight trench coat if you will miss your parka (unlikely, I know). Most offices will be air conditioned to 70 degrees or so.

      San Diego is great! If you have a day, go to the zoo or take a walk on the beach (La Jolla has lots of beach). There’s lots of good restaurants in the Gas Lamp District downtown or in La Jolla. I have only been to San Diego with “locals” who like to cook so I can’t recommend anything specific. If you like seafood and fish, you are in luck (relative to the Midwest–although the Midwest has incredible steaks).

    3. San Diego can actually get pretty cold at night. I was there last December and it in the 30s at night (which, I know, not comparable to the Midwest, but not tropical!). I live in LA, so can’t speak to exactly what it will be like in San Diego in January, but here it will probably be in the 50s/60s during the day, and in the 40s/50s at night. Southern Californians are big wimps when it comes to cold, so that’s why we dress wintery even when it’s pretty warm compared to the rest of the country! I would say skirts with tights or pants, and lightweight sweaters with a lightweight jacket should be fine. I’d bring a lightweight scarf, too. But no need for hats, gloves, puffy coats, etc. The Gas Lamp has some very cool speak easy bars. My favorite is The Noble Experiment, which is behind a gastropub called The Neighborhood (which was also good!). You have to get on a list ahead of time…we just discovered it by chance and managed to get in. There’s another one that’s larger and more well known, but I’m totally spacing on the name. I liked the vibe at The Noble Experiment better, though. And, lots of restaurants in the Gas Lamp.

    4. I moved to SoCal from the midwest eight years ago. When I first arrived, I laughed and laughed at how the locals wore parkas when the temperature dipped below 65. Now I am one. We are TOTAL weather wimps. I’d say, dress as you would for fall, when it’s still fairly balmy in the daytime but gets chilly at night. Have layers. Also, it may rain. We don’t get a lot of rain, but when we do, it’s in the winter.

  23. Need gift advice for new mommies: I am visiting one of my best friends this weekend to see her and her 2 month old son. We always do little Christmas gifts, I’m going to bring something for the baby but also want to bring her something just for her. I understand she doesn’t get to go out a lot right now so was looking at various beauty box subscriptions but would a gift card be better?

    1. Actually, beauty box subscription would be great or some other grab bag of cool new to her products. She probably doesn’t have the time or energy to stand at Sephora trying everything or run to three different stores. Fun samples let her still feel like a pretty grownup who deserves pampering. Infants don’t really contribute much in that department.

  24. Quick holiday party question. My office holiday party is during the workday (although it’s still pretty “festive”…) I am planning to wear a nice work appropriate dress, but I’d love to wear a pair of festive tights with it – they are black with a silver seam up the back. Would this be inappropriate? My workplace is technically business casual, but people are pretty liberal with that. I try to step it up a little bit and look put together as much as possible. TIA!

    1. That would be appropriate at my casual workplace on holiday party day.

  25. Can anyone recommend a place for dinner and/or drinks with a small group of coworkers near the Gallery Place Chinatown metro stop in DC?

    2. Zengo, Proof, or Poste? You may need reservations, particularly if there’s anything going on at the Verizon Center.

  26. I’m 28 years old, somewhat introverted, but would like to keep in touch with my friends and my professional network without being on Facebook. Is it weird to do holiday cards, or is that only something that my parents’ generation does? What about email holiday cards? My age group is still moving around quite a bit so I would get to skip the part where I email everyone to ask for their address.

    1. I send Christmas cards to my friends and they appreciate it a lot. I give cards to a few of my colleagues and have sent cards to bosses I intended to hit up for references later, to ensure they remembered me fondly ;).

    2. I’m a little older than you but not in your parents’ generation. I do holiday cards, and have done so for years. Most of my friends and colleagues do too.

      This year I decided to make my own. I spent a great afternoon this past weekend cutting little fir trees out of card stock, gluing them onto blank notecards that I bought at a craft store, and “decorating” them. I just sent them out on Monday, so no feedback yet!

    4. Thank you all – I think I just needed a little encouragement! I always enjoy being on the receiving end as well. You’ve inspired me to do actually mail them, too (not email).

    5. I did them last year as a single 27-year-old. My friends seemed happy to receive them, and actually, the e-mail I sent out asking for addresses was the way I got life updates from everyone (because they didn’t send cards themselves).

  27. What do we think about fake pearls?
    I’m wearing a long strand of fake pearls today because I’m going out after work and feel festive. I don’t normally wear any jewelry, and this is my first step towards adding more whimsy into my dress code.
    Some of my colleagues complimented me on the pearls, but two asked immediately if they were real or fake. I answered honestly, but felt a bit bothered. Do fake pearls carry some negative implications of which I am unaware?

    1. They only carry negative implications to people whose opinions don’t matter. Why on earth would someone even make a comment of that nature? How rude.

      Seriously, if the pearls make you happy, wear them. Who cares what other people think?

    2. I have very little ‘real’ jewelry at this point in my life and I don’t think I have ever once been asked if something was ‘real’ or ‘fake.’ That also strikes me as bizarre. I think that costume jewelry is fine so long as it looks tasteful and seems of higher quality (probably wouldn’t want to be wearing things that were turning green). I think most people share that opinion as well. So, I wouldn’t suddenly think you can’t wear ‘fake’ pearls because people randomly asked you what is probably an inappropriate question to begin with (look at it this way- what if they had been a real, multi-thousand dollar strand of pearls… would you not have felt equally as bothered admitting such too?).

    3. Thanks ladies. You’re right, what really bothered me is not the object in question but how rude they acted – I just didn’t expect my colleagues to behave that way.

    5. What a Judgey McJudgerson question. I have both and wear my “fakes” more often.

    6. I would assume they are just jealous/worried you might be able to afford a long string of real pearls. It is a totally ridiculous question — don’t even worry about it.

  28. Maybe a little late in the day for TJ, so I might re-post this tomorrow. Are all law firms the same, basically? At least as far as litigation goes? I’m at my 3rd law firm now, and the first 2 had 50+ attorneys, and my current firm is small, less than 5, but the partners all came from large or mid-sized law firms.

    They expect me to be on call all the time. They put off reviewing my documents / motions until the last minute, or they drop things on my from cases I’ve never touched, and then I am up late making frantic changes and trying to get them out the door to make filing deadlines, and I usually give partners at least a week to review complicated motions and at least 4 days to review shorter things like replies, or letters to opposing counsel. Even though I have been practicing 5+ years with a very good track record, even though I have almost been at this firm for a year I’m not allowed to send ANYTHING out the door without a partner’s approval. I understand this is partially because these are basically all their personal clients that they have had forever, but it is frustrating. Also, nothing I ever do is “right,” even when I ask many, many questions and follow their instructions exactly – when they’ll talk to me. Mostly it is what I like to call “drafting in the dark” with not many details and not much to go on. When that is the case, I send outlines and try and talk through it but I never get feedback until I give them the final documents.

    Now all of the firms I’ve been at have a “chain of command” so to speak, and I understand that since none of the files here are “mine” there will be more review, but when the criticism is more destructive (words like ‘unfortunate’ and ‘terrible’) than constructive (they won’t tell me what to fix) it starts to get pretty demoralizing. The thing that really gets to me is that often the changes are stylistic and not even substantive (I’m not creative, I don’t like to use lots of hyberbolic analogies and they do), and I have had compliments from judges, other attorneys, and professors on my writing. I’ve been published and even won awards for my composition. I don’t think I’m the best writer out there – but I am proud of my accomplishments and I think they mean something – and I’m sure there are better writers out there, and I’m sure I can learn a lot from practitioners more experienced than me…but “terrible”? Really? “Disappointing”? After 5+ years of practice and never a complaint about my writing just NOW I’m being told that I’m basically stupid?

    The really unfortunate thing is that my work is starting to get sloppy. I can’t help it. Why spend the time to print and proofread (my normal rule) when you know the entire thing is going to be rewritten? My husband is telling me to go on some interviews, but my issue is that at every law firm I’ve been at, or heard of from friends, there is always something. A crazy partner, a crazy workload, or they expect you to be chained to your desk no matter how efficient you are or how much work you have (or don’t have). Maybe I just hate practicing law (possible). I have some applications out for government and in-house positions…maybe those will pan out.

    1. Wow, you’ve got a lot going on here….

      First off, I’m sorry for your career angst.

      Second, I don’t think that all law firms are the same, but you’ve essentially only worked at only one model of firms…even your current small firm is filled with former “big law-ers.”

      Some of the stuff you are beefing about is definitely annoying but not A-Typical, unfortunately. The last minute rushes, keeping you “on call,” handing off projects to you that you know nothing about….all pretty run-of-the-mill behavior. I would also say that changing things stylistically is VERY common, especially for litigators. I practiced in Big Law for 12 years before going in-house and it’s sort of ingrained in any lawyer to want to change the words on a page..I don’t know why.

      The destructive feedback (terrible, unforunate), is where I’d draw the line. That’s not typical, at least in my experience, and sounds a lot more like you’re dealing with a bullying personality. Unfortunately, your behavrior might be feeding the Bully Beast by interacting from a position of weakness (asking a lot of questions/being perceived as needing too much direction). Some lawyers will take your conduct as a sign that you can’t “run with a project” or that you’re not aggressive enough. If your work is starting to suffer, it’s probably a sign that you’re in a downward spiral where you’re at. That doesn’t mean you hate being a lawyer or that you can’t practice law…it just means that you’re not cut out for big law personalities. Don’t take that as a criticism. There’s a reason why so few make it to partner in big law…not all of them good ones.

    2. Full disclosure: I’m a law student.
      I found a mid-sized firm, based in a decent sized (but by no means Large) city, and everyone I met with during interviews said the firm is totally *unlike* what you just described. I have yet to start working, but after a number of interviews, working at a small firm (where all of the partners came from biglaw), I would say it sounds like you are in a great position to interview for (and find) a new job. My summer associateship at this mid-sized firm hasn’t started, but could you look for firms that are based in smaller cities? or the midwest? It sounds like I’m pretty similar to you — the behavior you describe would drive me CRAZY — and if you can find a govt job that you like, great, but it sounds like you might want to try for a doesn’t-matter-what-size-as-long-as-its-based-in-a-smaller-city type of firm. Good luck. Keep your chin up. Post again tomorrow, too, so you can get some real lawyers to answer your question.

    3. No. I 1) don’t have a blackberry and am therefore not expected to be always on call (I think I’ve worked past 8 pm like three times in the year and a half I’ve been at my firm, and maybe twice on weekends) and 2) if my partners reviewed everything that went out the door, they’d go nuts. They review motions and that’s about it.

      Now, the caveat is I work in medical malpractice defense. Our clients are insurance companies who are cheap and would never pay for someone reviewing something like a letter and who also don’t work past 5 themselves, so any “emergencies” we have are pretty much of our own making. The downside is the pay is terrible and the law is pretty simple, honestly (though the medicine is intellectually stimulating).

  29. I’m new to in-house from a straight-litigation position. While my old job required me to pick contracts part, my new one requires pretty good drafting skills, which I feel like I’m short on. Does any one have a good recommendation for a practitioner’s guide for drafting contracts? And for that matter a few other topics, like

    -corporate governance
    -FCPA
    -accommodations law

    Any favorite websites for in-housers out there?

    Many thanks in advance!!

    1. Welcome to in-house! You’ll love it here.

      I highly recommend joining ACC – acc.com. They should partner firm with firms in your area to host various events (some purely social fun things; others geared toward CLE). You’ll be able to meet other in-house lawyers, which is always interesting and often useful.

      I think I have some FCPA powerpoints I can send you. E-mail me at [thiswebsite]herbie at the gmail. Also, the DOJ just recently put out an FCPA guidebook, which will be very useful for you.

      Regarding accommodations law – I assume you mean employment law? If you know anyone at Littler, they have a US employment law guide and a state-specific guide they will probably send you for free if you ask. I think the US guide is a pretty helpful intro for people who haven’t had exposure to employment law before.

      As far as contracts, I’ll look at my bookshelf – I know as a first year associate, I was given a contracts drafting book that supposedly highly recommended. A lot is going to depend on how your company handles things. For example, are lengthy terms okay, or does the company prefer to limit terms to 1 to 2 years?

      My very basic checklist, from which I’m probably leaving things out given the hour of the morning, is–
      * Check the term; does that fit with our approach to contracts?
      * Check whether the contract auto-renews.
      * Are payment terms okay? (For example, if we’re obligated to pay w/in 15 days of invoicing, that might cause problems– someone might be on vacation, etc.)
      * Look for penalties for late payments.
      * Can we terminate for convenience?
      * Look for penalties for early termination.
      * Check limitations on liability.
      * Check indemnity.
      * Look for terms that might violate our credit facility.
      * Check survival clause.

      Those are some very basics.

      Good luck!

      1. And look at that– I forgot governing law and venue. Told you.

        Anyway, now that I’m at the office, the two books I have are A Manual of Style for Contract Drafting by Kenneth A. Adams and Working With Contracts: What Law School Doesn’t Teach You by Charles M. Fox. I haven’t used either of them, but supposedly they’re good. Ken Adams spoke to my first-year associate class, and I remember him as an interesting, engaging speaker, so maybe his book is the same way.

    1. I’m so excited! FYI, I couldn’t find it by searching in the app store, but I went to Top Charts and it was listed there.

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