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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
WOW. Sometimes a suit just takes your breath away, you know? This suit reminds me a bit of the suit that Sheryl Sandberg wore for her famous TED talk (Donna Karan as well!) — it's interesting and feminine but still says B-O-S-S. Gorgeous, amazing, and I love the slight vintage vibe. (My only quibble with the styling: I haaate sandals with suits — it makes me cringe every time I see them together.) The jacket (Donna Karan Long-Sleeve Peplum Jacket, Black) is $1,795, and the pants (Donna Karan Pull-On (?!?) Wide-Leg Trouser) are $795.
Oooh, not a suit at all, but this cashmere wrap top from Donna Karan is also awesome. The excellence of all of these pieces makes me sad that Donna Karan herself stepped down and they're focusing on the DKNY brand instead (at least, last I heard; here's a NYT article on point).
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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My wonderful assistant
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can thank my assistant and show her how much I appreciate her? I’m talking beyond the normal Administrative Professionals Day stuff.
I was promoted to a position I wasn’t qualified for and set up to fail by people more senior than me (long story, if people are interested I’ll tell it but otherwise I’ll leave it at that). My assistant has been a godsend. She was the assistant for the person I replaced as well so she knows my department inside and out. It’s because of her that I didn’t fail.
She always makes sure I know what is going on. She lets me know what needs to be done when and who tasks should be delegated to. She laid the groundwork for me to have a great relationships with the people who report to me. When someone I’m not familiar with calls she gives me a cheat sheet telling me what I need to know about them. She makes the schedule exactly the way everyone likes it and then gives it to me to send out to my team and everyone is always happy with it. She once gave me the heads up about a colleague trying to backstab me in a big way and helped me take action for that not to happen. I was once blindsided into giving a presentation at a meeting with almost no preparation time and she prepared everything I needed and the presentation was very well received. These are just some examples. She comes in early and stays late and doesn’t complain or try to take credit. She also does lots of things outside of her job description or off work hours in order to help me. I have never asked her to do any of this but she does anyway.
I say thank you all the time and I once asked her why she was helping me and her response was women have to stick together. I want to do something for her to show how much I appreciate her having my back and basically saving my job but I have no idea where to start. I would appreciate any ideas and wisdom from the hive.
Bewitched
Promotion and a raise? Or raise only? If that’s not a possibility, I would go out of my way to recognize her and praise her (in writing) with the higher ups, in the hopes that eventually my documentation would lead to a promotion and a raise. I also think it’s helpful to recognize that she may well have additional professional aspirations of her own-what can you give her to do that will be a challenge and an opportunity for her in this job or her next one?
Shopping challenged
+1
Coach Laura
+1 Cash, raise, additional challenges or written acknowledgements for her file and with higher ups.
padi
Cash. Seriously, whenever we have conversations about this topic, it seems that cash is most appreciated.
I’d add in a lovely hand-written note, sending kudos to her supervisor on a regular basis (cc your assistant), writing a glowing review, and recommending a raise come review time.
Mrs. Jones
Ditto padi’s comment.
KinCA
+2.
I also once had a manager give me a thoughtful handwritten note and generous gift card to a restaurant he knew that I really enjoyed. He mentioned that he wasn’t able to get approval for a raise until year-end (this was in the spring, I believe), but he wanted to give me a token of appreciation and recognition in the meantime. It was great because it let me know a raise was coming, even if it couldn’t be effective immediately, and I was able to go out and celebrate my accomplishments/recognition with my significant other.
Batgirl
I would just say that it may depend on your field. I work at a non-profit and it would be extremely weird to give someone cash for a job well done. A raise or a bonus, yes. But an envelope filled with cash, super weird.
Anonymous
And there can be unintended tax consequences for an employer when someone in a supervisory role gives a cash gift to a subordinate. That is why cash gifts are forbidden at many large employers. It always boggles my mind that law firms give cash gifts while telling their clients not to give cash gifts.
Anonymous
I have to say, even though I know cash is always the most appreciated gift and it’s widely done in Big Law, I could never bring myself to give my assistant an envelope stuffed with cash. I got her the equivalent amount gift cards to places like Amazon and Nordstrom, and I know she was able to put them to good use. But the wad of cash just felt too tacky to me.
Anonymous
That is amazing and she sounds wonderful! I ditto sending praise to higher ups, advocating that she gets a promotion/raise, and a gift. I’m an in-house attorney and I think that giving straight up cash would seem slightly out of place given our corporate culture. However, I’ve given Amex gift cards as thank you gifts where appropriate, and they’re appreciated. (For my direct assistant, who I knew well, it was a gift card to the local spa where she went weekly.)
Anokha
That is amazing and she sounds wonderful! I ditto sending praise to higher ups, advocating that she gets a promotion/raise, and a gift. I’m an in-house attorney and I think that giving straight up cash would seem slightly out of place given our corporate culture. However, I’ve given Amex gift cards as thank you gifts where appropriate, and they’re appreciated. (For my direct assistant, who I knew well, it was a gift card to the local spa where she went weekly.)
Anonymous
Sounds like she needs to be promoted!
Idea
Recommend her for personal development classes or courses or conventions where she can learn and position herself well for her next position.
SA
Reading this brightened an otherwise bad day.
padi
San Jose Meet-Up Saturday at 1Pm. Original Gravity in Downtown San Jose.
Let me know if you’ll be there so I can reserve table space.
Anonymous
Anyone else suffer from plantar fasciitis? Any tips for dressy shoes for work? Read: not ankle boots. I also had a professional sneaker fitting recently. Apparently I have wide width feet, so that’s a consideration, as well as the wonderful orthotics that are super comfy but take up some space in my shoes.
S in Chicago
It’s really hard. I did best getting orthotics and then finding brands that were orthotic friendly (Munro American, some Clarks, etc.) For more casual shoes, I can’t recommend KURUs enough. I actually feel more comfortable in their sneakers than those with my orthotics. They helped me a ton and the KIVI style is dressy enough that I can wear them with chinos or the like and feel like at least I look a little more proper than sneakers.
Batgirl
I suffer from it but haven’t found any great solutions. My office is fairly casual so it’s not a huge problem for me, but I still struggle to find cute shoes. I have had the best luck with boots and ankle boots (but I know that doesn’t work for you) but other than that, Clarks have really been my go-to, as ugly as many of them are (though not all!).
Snick
Vionics brand. Their shoes accommodate orthotics and they also sell orthotics. They have some basic professional styles.
X
I find that shoes that keep my feet secure in them work the best. I work in a fairly casual office so I don’t have to worry about them being very professional. The shoes that I swear by are okabashi pacific flip flops for summer, crocs cobbler leather clogs for commuting when it’s not summer and casualwear, and LifeStride Jubilant shoes…
Idea
Orthotics in everything, no matter how dressy. Also, the night brace from my podiatrist really helped, but that’s not work-related.
ChiLaw
Maybe my case is mild. Probably? I use “heel seats” and they fit in most pumps and wedges. They’re pretty unobtrusive.
Bonnie
This suit would be much sleeker without the jacket pockets. I do love the wrap style though.
For those of you that like to experiment with eyeshadow colors, these palettes are on sale for $29 through stilacosmetics dot com Nordstrom will price match and offers free shipping http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/stila-eyes-are-the-window-spirit-eyeshadow-palette/3855178?origin=PredictiveSearchProducts
wrap top
I have a BCBG merino wrap cardi that is awfully similar ot the Donna Karan one.
I got mine at a consignment shop and it is so, so lovely. Not sure if there is something like it currently on offer, but it is an awesome thing that is not a suit jacket and not a basic cardi.
Anonymous
I’m a dissatisfied lawyer who thinks I might like to work in the fields of publishing, writing or editing (either legal or non-legal). I’ve noticed a lot of job postings from companies like Lexis and Practical Law seeking attorneys to write or edit CLE and research materials. Some are part-time hourly and some seem to be full-time with benefits (I’m open to either at this point). This seems like it would be up my alley. Does anyone have any experience with these kinds of jobs or any insight into whether they might be an entrée into more general writing or editing jobs?
Anon
Have you considered being a Knowledge Management associate at a larger law firm? That’d be an awesome position for someone with your desires.
Anonymous
I’ve never heard of this – can you tell me more?
Anonymous
According to a recruiter email I got this week, Paul Hastings has several openings for knowledge management associates.
Anonitynon
OK, so I don’t know much about legal publishing, but I work in mainstream publishing (editorial). You should think long and hard about whether it’s the right career for you, because the pay is low (certainly not close to what you will be used to as a lawyer), the hours can be long, and it can be hard to advance. Most people in publishing are in it for the love of books/writing/editing/research. If you do not have a similar passion you may not be very happy (and even if you do, burnout is possible!). My experience is with traditional publishing companies. Not sure about academic or legal publishers, so that’s a caveat.
The most common way to get into writing jobs is to have other writing jobs. By that I mean, pitch places you’d like to write for and see if they’ll accept an article, book review, or whatever you want to write. Once you build up some clips and a reputation, getting into full-time writing and editing jobs will be easier.
Hollis
Not wanting to dissuade you but these legal writing jobs are competitive! My friend interviewed 3 rounds with one of the ones you mentioned and submitted a writing sample, and was told eventually that her writing style did not fit with what they were looking for. Basically, they wanted a really boring, straightforward piece, and not one that was more readable and had fun real life examples. But if you are interested in doing it, go for it. Other jobs that might work for you is legal marketing (writing bios and materials for presentations) or teaching legal writing and research at your local law school.
Compulsive Shopper
I’ve been compulsively shopping lately (last month or two). I do need new clothes because I’ve gained a lot of weight and my previous wardrobe does not fit but I can’t seem to stop. It’s not out of my means yet but it’s getting expensive and unnecessary and I’m supposed to be saving for a down payment. Help – any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Anon
I’ve been there myself – and racked up quite the credit card bill doing so. For me, it was self medication for depression. I loved the thrill and gratification of getting something in the mail, like a present for myself. It made me happier. I finally started seeing a therapist and talked through all the reasons I was using shopping to distract from what was really going on.
To start with though, I would suggest an add-on like StayFocused (on google chrome) that will block your go to shopping sites. Everytime you load up your favorite site, stop and ask yourself why you’re doing it. I also use a spending tracker app, and highly suggest it. It helps to put the spending in perspective when displayed on a bar graph or pie chart.
Sydney Bristow
Remove all saved credit and debit cards from all of your shopping s!tes.
Set a specific budget of money that you are allowed to spend on clothes per month.
Unsubscribe from shopping emails or set up a rule to have them sent to a random subfolder so you don’t see them unless you go looking for them.
Institute a 24 hour (or 7 day) waiting period where you cannot buy anything unless you are still thinking about that specific item 24 hours later. I have the 24 hour rule now myself but when I was really broke I made it 7 days. I figure if I couldn’t stop thinking about the item for a week that I’d likely get a lot of use out of it.
Make a list of specific items that you need to fill out your new wardrobe then only allow yourself to buy something that is already on that list.
I’ve definitely been there and have been working on this myself.
Anon
This happened to me last year. I just couldn’t stop shopping from April to September of last year. I couldn’t trust myself to be in front of the computer at home because I would end up shopping some clothes. I finally stopped sitting in front of the computer after work. I used to go for a walk, watch TV etc as soon as I felt the need to turn on the computer. The urge to shop faded in a couple of weeks. I have not shopped anything from last October till now. I have shopped so much that I don’t need anything for this year and probably next year too. So use something (really anything) to distract yourself when you feel the urge to shop.
Opal
Unsubscribe from all retail emails. Out of sight, out of mind – helped me tremendously as a first step.
Killer Kitten Heels
Capsule wardrobe time!
When I found myself compulsively shopping a while back, I realized it was because my closet was a disorganized mess of impulse buys, and nothing went with anything, so I just kept buying more stuff to fill perceived “gaps” in my wardrobe that I felt like I had because it took me a half hour to find an outfit every morning. to fix that, I ended up spending an afternoon researching capsule wardrobes (formulas for how to build them, sample wardrobes, etc.), and then drew up three capsules for myself – casual spring/summer, casual fall/winter, and work. Once I had the list, I went through my closet and packed away anything that (a) wasn’t on the list; and/or (b) was on the list, but fit me poorly. After I went through that process, I had, like, three pieces that were listed but that I didn’t actually own a well-fitting version of, so I bought those, put them in the closet, and left everything else in boxes in the attic.
Mostly, I found I didn’t feel the pull to shop because, with my wardrobe set up so intentionally, it made it really hard to justify purchases, because I knew I didn’t “need” anything. On the rare occasions when I felt like I couldn’t help it, I “shopped” the boxes in the attic. 100% of the time I was about to buy something, a version of it was already in the attic.
Mindy
+1. I created a capsule work wardrobe last fall (streamlining my closet in preparation for a move) and it has made my life so. much. easier! Whereas before it could take me multiple tries to decide what to wear (does this fit? does this go together?), now I can just grab and go. My base neutrals are black, grey and some navy (I had nice navy pieces that I didn’t want to get rid of) and most of my accent colors are purple, green and shades of blue. Everything goes with multiple pieces and it all coordinates. Even though I have less clothes than before, my wardrobe is so much more versatile and I actually wear everything.
I had to buy more items than Killer Kitten Heels to create my capsule, but it was definitely money well spent. Creating a list and shopping intentionally made a huge difference.
Leaning out / older children
Thanks to everyone to responded earlier.
I think this all comes from feeling like I have no excess bandwidth and just need to dial it back generally. And also feeling like connecting with a school aged child is so different than connecting with a wee baby. Also: when my children were babies, thanks to the recession, I was pretty much a PT worker b/c there wasn’t that much work to do. I was a better mom, better wife, better daughter, better friend, etc. The stuff going to the thrift shop got to the thrift shop. The work at work was also probably done better b/c I was so much mentally fresher. Everything was just better. I want that back (not the recession, just the schedule).
I’m not a helicopter parent by any means, but I feel that things change so often with small children that if you have a busy quarter then you’ve missed a lot in the world of a kid learning to read, learning long division, going to camp, etc.
Shopping challenged
When was your earlier post? I’d love to read it and the comments you got.
For connecting with my kiddo; I’ve found the suggestions from Handinhandparenting.org very helpful. They suggest giving the kiddo a short period when they are the boss. It really helps them feel connected if you can do this for 20-30 minutes. The part the organization never mentions but is true is that you can spend hours trying to reconnect with your kid if you’re running the show.
OP
It was in the morning post from today.
Coach Laura
I read the whole thread but didn’t reply. So if I understand correctly, you’re a partner who generally likes your job, your kids’ needs are going to be changing and you want a better vision of the future, either in the near term or when they are in 6th-8th grade? Right now, you’re leaving at 4:30 but don’t feel it’s sustainable because you’re shortchanging the job and the kids?
I think you have the time, ability and position to construct something that works for you before you get there.
Your options as I see them: 1) Develop your personal practice model around working daily 9-3 or 8-2 with associates/junior partners taking up the slack for you, with you providing leadership and rainmaking to the extent that you do that. Developing/hiring junior attorneys/partners would be a key part of this. Your time at home would be free except during crises (that is, not spending hours on the phone or computer after dinner). In this way you are leveraging your experience and knowledge but not putting in a ton of hours. You’ll need to prep your firm/other partners that this is coming, how you’ll manage your practice and how you’ll contribute and find some way to be adequately compensated.
2) Find another firm that will let you do this or start your own practice. You may be able to form a boutique practice and size it to your availability and then mentor and bring your own associates with you. But running a business also has its downsides.
Having raised teens through this – in a very hands’ on way – while working full time I’d say that the demands do intensify when kids are tweens. Just driving them places, managing multiple activities for multiple kids, trying to have family dinners most nights. Your other post mentioned taking clothes to charity shop and errands and I’d still advise you to outsource that (along with housecleaning etc) unless your income is going to reduce so much that you can’t afford the help. Your time is valuable to your kids and your law practice and is not so valuable to chores (see e.g. comparable advantage and opportunity cost). But you’re right that when you’re not running from here to there, it will free up a lot of mental energy and you might find you’re more productive and profitable at work and more connected at home.
Good luck – I think you’ll find it worthwhile. And someday you’ll look back when they’re gone to college – as I am doing now – and be glad you made the effort.
Funeral Vistation
Is a dark green business casual dress appropriate for a funeral visitation? It’s not revealing, is knee length, and has elbow length sleeves. I’m planning on stopping by after work in support of a friend, but realized I am not sure dark green is ok?
Mrs. Jones
I think dark green is fine.
anon99
The dress is fine. Your friend will just be happy you came.
Been the friend
Yes, dark green is fine for a visitation. Your friend will be glad you are there.
Killer Kitten Heels
I suspect this is somewhat regional in nature, but where I am (northeastern US), pretty much anything somber-colored, not-100%-casual, and not-revealing is acceptable for this sort of thing, particularly when you’re (a) stopping by after work; and (b) showing up in support of a mourner, rather than as a direct mourner (so, for example, I’d probably be wearing mostly black at, say, my grandfather’s funeral, but I wouldn’t expect my friend who stopped by to give me a hug at my grandfather’s funeral to be in black).
Funeral Visitation (gah sp!)
Thank you!
Honeycrisp
I think that this sounds fine. For what it’s worth, at my grandmother’s visitation last month, we were very appreciative of the people who came by after work to support us.
Anonymous
Has anyone considered being a SAHW? I don’t like my job, and DH is supportive of me just taking off time, he makes enough for both of us and his job is demanding, and he loves it, I’m happy to support him in that and take care of our home. I think it would be easier for both of us if I wasn’t working.
We don’t plan to have kids for a few years, but after that I think I would be a SAHM.
Anonymous
Come. On.
Look for another job- negotiate the start date being a month so you get some time off in between.
JTX
I would suggest reading:
http://jezebel.com/quitting-your-job-to-be-a-full-time-mom-is-probably-a-b-1054423380
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/magazine/the-opt-out-generation-wants-back-in.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/grown-and-flown/why-i-regret-being-a-stay-at-home-mom_b_3402691.html
Anonymous
Please. Jezebel should never be on the recommended teading list.
Anonymous
I’m in a similar situation and I seriously contemplate it every. single. day. One additional fact in our situation is that DH travels a lot for work, often to exotic international locations (Switzerland! Croatia! Italy!) and then I could go with him. I will probably try to tough it out until I’m at least pregnant but not 100% sure I’ll make it until then. (Ivy League-educated lawyer, FWIW.)
Idea
Would you go with him, though? What would you do? Would there be other wives your age there – or friends? He would be working. I see this as sometimes possible, but not something desirable for me, I’m curious why/how it would be desirable or workable for you.
FWIW I have traveled with my husband with his groups or on business and often felt out-of-place or awkward.
Anonymous
I would definitely go with him if I weren’t working. I love solo travel and have travelled on my own a bunch. I would love to go and have a free hotel stay to explore a new country by myself. Plus we’d probably on occasion be able to tack on a weekend together. I definitely wouldn’t expect him to hang out with me while we’re there for him to work. Meeting other wives would be a nice perk, but I’m perfectly content by myself.
Anonymous
Exotic international locations? That’s Europe. Ugh.
Anonymous
Um, I’m in the US so yes that is international and I would say fairly exotic for business travelespecially here where international business travel is not super common (he’s gone to Asia and Africa for work too, the ones I named are just countries I particularly want to visit or visit again). Fine if you don’t consider those places exotic but not sure why it merits an “Ugh.”
Gus
Just because you are married doesn’t make being unemployed more ok. You can call it SAHW if you must, but it is just being unemployed. And being dependent.
Kel
I have a friend who did this. A dear friend of over 20 years. We are still friends, but I had such a hard time relating to her when she was just…hanging out. They eventually had kids, and it’s easier to relate now, because parenting is an “occupation” whether or not it is employment.
I don’t object in principle to someone not working if they don’t have to. Isn’t that kind of the win-the-lottery dream? But I absolutely object to not working in order to “support him and take care of our home.” No. You call it “support” but that’s not a thing. You will be a dependent. I have a really hard time with the choice to just mooch off another adult, even if you do his laundry for the privilege. Plus doesn’t sound like you want to do anything in particular as an alternative to working. What will you do, just watch Netflix in between walking the dog and making dinner?
Anonymous
Oh, come on. Having a stay at home partner can be hugely supportive to someone in a demanding job – always having healthy, home-cooked meals on the table, laundry done, pets taken care of, house cleaned, errands run, etc. is a lot of work or a lot of money for outsourcing or both. If one partner is willing to take all that on, it can be a big help to the partner who’s working. How many times have busy working moms here lamented that they wished they had a stay at home spouse?
There are lots of good reasons why women shouldn’t stay home, but acting like she’s just going to lie around watching Netflix all day is unnecessarily snide.
SoCalAtty
I so agree with this. I didn’t do it on purpose, but I was a SAHW when I was let go with all the rest of the construction lawyers in 2009/2010. It took me a year to find something else. We were ok on husband’s salary, and by taking on everything having to do with the house, he was able to put more time / effort into growing his business. And I got to ride all the horses at my barn every day as an exercise rider (and was in the best shape of my life. It was awesome…).
Could I have done that forever? Probably. Can we afford to and still do all the fun things I want to? No. And also I felt horrible that my husband was paying my student loan payments (he doesn’t have any).
Idea
You were out riding all the horses in your barn. This is different from supporting at home…
Anonymous
Oh good grief, Idea, she said she was taking care of the home. The fact that she also made time to ride horses doesn’t mean she wasn’t supporting her husband. It’s possible to still have hobbies, whether you’re working outside the home or in.
Anon for this
What happens when he divorces you? Is he emtionally ready to be the sole breadwinner? You’re lack of ambition will drive him to resent you! He’ll chest and leave you for another woman. Your education will have been a waste. Getting a job with a big gap in your resume is nigh impossible. This is a board for high achieving women, it’s not the place to post a question like that. Can you work part time or consultant to keep up your experience? *Insert story about self/friend/relative getting burned and ending up bad off after foregoing or leaving a career to stay home*.
Just trying to summarize all the usual answers when this topic comes up. Let me know if I missed any.
Anon for this
Ugh autocorrect. He’ll *cheat and leave you…
Anonymous
Love it! I got worried for a second there.
I would be a SAHP (stay at home person, since I’m neither a mom nor wife) in a heartbeat if I could.
Dr's orders
I second that it’s hard to get a job with a huge gap in your resume. However I can also relate to her wanting to quit her job if she’s that unhappy. My advice would be to go on looking for work while in this job. When she lands a position she can always negotiate for a start date that gives her time to take a break. Another alternative is to consider going part-time if that’s an option for her. Also I don’t think being a SAHW is that bad, some of the comments on here are unnecessarily patronizing. Sometimes one is really burned out and if it gets to the point where it interferes with your well-being then I would skip all the advice and just take a break. And yes I am an “overachieving chick” with a PhD
Senior Attorney
They’re “all the usual answers” because they are pretty smart answers.
It might be a great gig but it’s hella risky.
Jules
+1
Another anonymous judge
We are not teenagers and are therefore capable of learning from someone else’s experience. Listen to Senior Attorney – who always speaks the truth.
Jules
My longer comment is stuck in moderation. But there was a lengthy thread on this topic on the 2/26/16 weekend open thread here.
Anonny
In my dreams, I would quit my high-earning job and not be a SAHW, but work way more manageable hours in my home town – become a dog walker, part-time nanny, do the drop off/pick up for other full-time working moms that I often see requested on my town’s FB group, tutor, etc. TO ME, being a 100% SAHW is a bad idea for lots of reasons. But I think that if you want to do something less full time and less stressful, there are a boat load of options if you just plug into the community (again, Pleasantville Parents Network group on FB is constantly looking for this kind of part-time work from a responsible, trustworthy adult).
SC
I’m the breadwinner in our family, so I haven’t faced the same choice. But my husband was a SAHH for a couple of years, and I loved it. It was so, so nice to have someone who kept things (relatively) clean, ran errands, grocery shopped and cooked, kept computers and other things in the house running, met repairmen, managed a renovation, and traveled with me whenever I had conferences or time off. It wasn’t voluntary on his part, he wasn’t happy, and he’s much more fulfilled and secure working. But if he would change his mind and be a SAHD, I would love that too. (And, after taxes, he actually takes home less than we pay our nanny.)
There are all the risks and considerations that people are bringing up here. But if staying home is the right thing for your family, I’m not convinced there’s much value to working until you get pregnant. After all, if you’re a SAHM for 18 years, chances are good you’ll be a SAHW after that.
Amy
Do not quit your job.
I’m an exec at a nonprofit, and one of our programs is aimed at teaching job skills women over 50 who are out of the workforce, but want to get back in. We have some very highly educated women in the program, who at one point had high-level, well-paying jobs. But they quit, to care for children or elderly parents, or just because they were sick of working and didn’t “need the money,” and their spouse/partner had a good job and was willing to pay the bills. And so they end up in our program, with a story similar to this one, which I’ve now heard about 40 times (no joke):
– I quit working and everything was fine for awhile.
– My spouse/partner and I started growing apart/started having problems/just didn’t connect any more because he/she was always working and I was always caregiving/doing something else
– My spouse/partner started working a lot of late nights and then suddenly came to me and said he/she wanted a divorce/wanted to move out (usually there is then some mention of a new, younger partner the ex has now)
– We don’t have as much money as I thought we did and I am not getting spousal/child support – OR – I was supposed to get spousal/child support but my ex-spouse isn’t paying
– I am totally broke and need a job RIGHT NOW/I am already on welfare and they’re telling me I have to look for work to stay eligible for benefits. (The scariest situations are the ones where the person is 60 and has not worked for 20 years, and therefore has very little in the way of Social Security credits, and so is facing not just an unbelievably difficult hill to climb in terms of finding work, but an impoverished “retirement”.)
– A variant of this: “everything was fine until my spouse got cancer/got in a car accident; now he/she is permanently disabled and our household income is one-quarter of what it was.”
After we started offering this program, I have to tell you, the stories our clients told scared my female coworkers and I half to death. And the experiences they came back and reported as they went out and looked for work were even scarier. (We have women with master’s degrees that can’t get hired at Target.) All my fantasies about quitting working and being a Martha Stewart-style champion homemaker went out the window. Do. Not. Stop. Working. Unless you are willing to accept the idea of living in poverty at some point in the future, possibly for the rest of your life.
ChiLaw
I hope this doesn’t come across as too “what about the *menz*?!” but… do you think this applies with the same force to men? My husband has been a SAHD for about 8 months, with no end in sight. He’s taken on the care of our child, and is now handling a move, and soon to oversee renovations. While I had some trouble settling into a good, stable job, he always worked and provided our health insurance and stable income. His jobs have never been anything that required a lot of experience or education, but work that rewarded his skills/personality. I am insured pretty well (life insurance that would cover the entire mortgage on our house, long term disability, etc.) and I always thought that if I dropped dead or something, he’d pay off the house, access the retirement etc. I had socked away, and then get a job at a grocery store, and get by without having to pay rent because he’d own the house free and clear. Is that hopelessly naive? Should he be rushing back to the workforce?
Jules
There was a long and occasionally flaming string on this topic — but in response to someone with children already.
https://corporette.com/2016/02/26/weekend-open-thread-308/
My very short two cents is that not liking your current job does not mean you shouldn’t work ever, and dropping out of the workforce for any significant period of time even before you have children will make it very hard to get back in the market years down the road. And if you do this, you need to make sure DH has and maintains a LOT of life insurance AND that you have a very solid pre-nup or post-nup agreement. You don’t want to be the widow or divorcee whose standard of living drops precipitously and for good with no work history and job skills even to support yourself, much less at the level you are at with DH’s income.
Anonymous
And don’t forget that a pre or post-nup may not protect you at all – they are usually done to protect the person with more not less assets.
super super anon for this
Help. I do not like work, and I don’t think my job is the problem.
I have a decently high-paying job. I work with smart people. The work is interesting enough and has variety. And I like my boss. But I’m burned out. I realized I don’t really care if I get promoted or not. I also find it hard to care about the work. I do a good job and get great reviews, so my dissatisfaction isn’t evident.
I looked for other jobs, but everything in my industry bores me. Why go somewhere else to do the same thing? At least where I am I’ve built up political capital and people like and respect me.
Background: I am mid-30s, single, no kids. I rent a cheap place in a medium COL city.
What I really want to do is take time off, write, paint, and learn languages. But who’s going to pay me to do that?
How can I make myself inspired again? I see 20-somethings at work and they’re so hungry to climb the ladder, and all I can think is… for what?
me too
This. My specialty went from being a well-respected craft to a commodity in the ten years since I started. Budgets are half what they were in 2006 and the clients exert more downward pressure every year. Partners raise billing rates every year. My realization is 66% and that isn’t unusual anymore. Some recent changes in the law mean that the work is now more complex than it ever was before and the specialty is (IMO) entering a sustained downward trajectory.
I have some money saved up and I’m seriously considering a career change to something more vocational. I can support myself through a 2-year program at a community college or tech school. A less demanding career would give me time to pursue my hobbies.
Anonymous
Patent law? ;)
me too
How’d you guess? You too?
Anonymous
Unfortunately, yes.
super super anon for this
That sounds so frustrating. I’m sorry. Hope you find a path that’s better for you. Your plan sounds like a good one.
I may repost tomorrow AM for more responses. I don’t know what the answer is. I’m worried that I’d feel this way about any job, especially since I know I have it pretty good.
Anonymous
Can you save up some money at take your sabbatical, either as an unpaid leave of absence or by leaving your current job? A year of chasing your dreams might alleviate your burn-out or give you some clarity that you’re really in the wrong field and you want to start over elsewhere.
me too
I think there’s “having it good” and then there’s “finding meaning in what I do.” Without meaning, anyone will become discouraged. Can you find meaning? Maybe your field involves financing or technology for saving the rainforests.
People will advise you to take time off. Do so. Take at least a month and, if possible, leave the country.
Try becoming involved in a professional or volunteer organization. I am involved in a children’s charity and the connections I’ve made have honestly kept me going for the last 2 years.
super super anon for this
Good points, all. There is no meaning in what I do except the satisfaction of completing the final product. I would love to do what we do for companies that actually matter, but they can’t afford us.
I really want to take several months off and leave the country, but I don’t know how. Do I ask for a leave of absence? Just announce I’m quitting?
I grew up with a SAHM and a dad who stayed at the same job for almost 30 years, so I have no framework for this kind of midlife sabbatical or multicareer exploration.
Anonymous
For what?!? So you don’t starve in retirement, for starters. Get over yourself.
way to miss the point
Thanks! That was really helpful.
super super anon for this
OP here. The “for what” was in reference to climbing the ladder, NOT working. Obviously I plan to work and recognize the value of working. I’m just feeling burned out and was hoping for some ideas to get the spark back.
I know I’m not alone since I’ve seen other people post about this, so I was just hoping for some solidarity. Your comment really stung.
Idea
You won’t starve in retirement.
The response was uncalled for.
Who said “an unexamined life is not worth living”? Sometimes I hate that person, but usually I agree.
You’re asking all the right questions. The only thing I would add is you might want to consider discussing it with a career coach and/or therapist for an outside perspective or some guidance in how to think and frame your thoughts and plan. Your alumni associations or college or university career management offices might have access to career coaches, actually.
Anonymous
Why not retire early then?
You are probably making a lot of money, and it sounds like you can live frugally. Do the numbers….
Think about what is important to you in life and Do It.
Work hard now and save like crazy. Live simply. Downsize. Save save save. Read Mr Money Mustache.
And in “retirement”, you can work if you want, try new things, learn new skills, and enjoy hobbies.
There are many ways to live your life.
Anonymous
I really like this suit.
But I have a question about pants. See how, on the photo, the model’s pants are pulling across the hips? What causes that? Any ideas on alterations to fix that issue?
Anon
Crotch whiskers are the result of pants that are too small for the wearer. A bigger size, or a different cut, is the solution.
CKB
The pulling is because either the rise is too high for her body or there isn’t enough room for her backside and/or thighs. Not sure if there are alterations to fix this, unless you size up & have the larger pants altered, but if it’s the rise that’s the issue, I don’t know if tailors will tackle it.
Anonymous
It’s my constant nightmare…..
I’m pear shaped with a full butt. No pants exist that fit with no whiskers. Sizing up, I need expensive alterations on every pair….. But for casual pants, skinnier etc… Some whiskering is gonna happen and I let it go. In fact, some jeans have fake “whiskering” stained on to the pants!
But I try to avoid in all work/formal pants.
OutOfSync
Work/life balance TJ: I am planning on taking a job in Europe–currently interviewing for positions in academic research. While the positions are interesting, some in fascinating locations I feel like I am out of sync compared to my peers. I am currently in my mid-30s and everyone in my friend group is mostly married with kids. I am single, no kids and so this is a time in my life where I can make this move without having to ask someone else’s opinion. On the one hand I think this could be a chance for some travel and exploration but I also worry. One: finances: being in academia means I’m not making as much as peers who work in other industries. Also I hope that in a year or two I can eventually settle back in a location in North America depending on where I get a job. I feel really anxious as I consider whether or not to have kids—-ideally I would prefer to have kids in a location where I plan to be for a long time. I know that I am projecting alot in to the future alot without knowing what could happen but somehow I can’t help it. I should add that the last few years have been very unhappy and sad and this is the first time that I feel like something good could happen in my life.
Anonymous
Go for it. You’re single and don’t have kids! Don’t plan your life around nonexistent kids.
You can do it!
This is exactly what leaning in is all about!
I totally understand coming from a place of fear and uncertainty– but it sounds like you have a great opportunity that is low-risk and you’ve worked hard for — it’s natural to think of what you’re giving up (opportunity cost) and to try to plan ahead but there is no way to know the future. Do what’s best for you now with some plans in your back pocket, and the rest will work out.
I’m married with kids and I’m way jealous of you! And I’m also jealous of my peers that moved to European capitals when they were young and single and found the Love of their Life and are now living there, exotically (to me) and happily! Who knows!
Anonymous
What? No! That’s not how academia works at all.
Anonymous
One of the executives at my work called me a wetback today. Twice. I’m in shock. There was a meeting about a project we are working and the executive was delegating tasks. For one item he told the person who is second in charge of the project to “have the wetback do it”. Everyone, not just me, was shocked. The second in charge said he didn’t hear what the executive and the executive pointed at me and said. “Her. The wetback. Have her do it.” I couldn’t even react and I didn’t know what to say. The meeting was right at the end of the day and I left without talking to anyone. I cried all the way home and I’m still crying now. I’m numb and emotional all at the same time. I can’t even believe it happened, I feel like it wasn’t even real if that makes any sense. I don’t even know why I’m posting. I don’t have a question I am just venting I guess.
me too
That is not acceptable. I’m sorry.
Anonymous
I know. But right now I am so shocked that I don’t even know how to react or what to do. I’m certain my co-workers were offended as well even though all of the other people present were white. I don’t even want to go to work anymore which I know probably makes me a coward. Right now I am a weepy mess and all over the place.
Furious for you
I’m so sorry this happened to you. First thing tomorrow you should go speak to HR. This is completely unacceptable and this idiot should be fired (or at the very least reprimanded and given a refresher in anti-discrimination training, but I can’t even imagine that he didn’t know how offensive this was).
And if the company doesn’t immediately take acceptable action you should speak to someone at the EEOC.
SoCalAtty
Wow. Are you in construction? Not that it’s relevant, but a lot of that nonsense goes on at some of our job-sites (I’m in design). Absolutely go to HR. I’m so sorry. That’s horrible.
Anonymous
Not construction but finance and banking.
Anonymous
I worked for an employment law firm where the managing partner referred to his hispanic clients as wetbacks, in front of the hispanic attorneys. Racism knows no boundaries.
Senior Attorney
Wait, what? How is this possible? Good Lord!!
OMG! First thing tomorrow, talk to the second-in-command who was at the meeting and demand to know what is going to be done to address the issue. And yes, talk to the EEOC if it’s not satisfactory.
I understand how you are weepy, but by tomorrow morning I hope you will be raging mad!! I’m mad as hell and I wasn’t even there!!!
Anon
HR and then lawyer, ASAP. This is not okay, EVER. I’m sorry this happened.
Anon100
Wow. That executive should be fired.
Anon
The only silver lining about this was that there were numerous witnesses. I am so sorry this happened to you. I would write down everything you remember about this asap – who was there, what time the meeting was, what time the comment happened, the context, etc. Then sign and date it.
Also, please talk with your direct manager (the one who couldn’t hear) asap, after you speak with HR in the morning. It will be helpful to get context for this. The fact that he did not apologize on behalf of the horrid comment-maker is nearly as awful as the comment being made. Racism is awful. Racism that is condoned because the rest of the room either doesn’t realize how offensive it is or doesn’t know how to politely correct an out-and-out racist is more shocking still.
I also wanted to tell you (because I’ve dealt with the trading floor version of this) to please try to nip this in the bud asap. It often gets worse. Only you can judge whether this is acceptable in your workplace (as in, it might keep happening) and a reason to leave. But do not leave without documenting and reporting it. I wanted to stay so that the a$$hole bullies didn’t win, but it was just too much for me. So I left. But not until I had reported it numerous times and I lawyered up.
I will also add that seeing the EEOC is fine, but in many parts of the country you have to wait many months for them to issue a “right to sue” letter in your case. My attorney advised me to send a demand letter and settle asap because the emotional trauma of my situation playing out over years (and the lawyers’ fees) would be too tough to handle emotionally.
Hugs.
Coach Laura
OP – I am incensed and irate on your behalf. The Anon at 9:24p.m. above has outlined a good strategy. You are very courageous to post here and to deal with it. I hope that you can go in tomorrow, hold your head high and get a resolution that you deserve.
Anonymous
Thank you so much everyone. I’ve managed to mostly stop crying. I’m honestly thinking of calling in tomorrow and then between tomorrow and the Easter weekend I won’t have to go back until Tuesday. Right now I don’t even want to go back.
The second in charge who said he didn’t hear the executive the first time did actually hear, but he was just so shocked like everyone else. Also I don’t know if he or anyone else called out the executive because the meeting was ending and it was the end of the work day so I had left. Someone may have but I didn’t stay around to find out. I just wanted to get out of there.
Anonymous
No, go. And made your complaints in writing as soon as you get there. He needs to be afraid, not you,
Anonymous
If it helps at all, I actually had never heard that term before and had to google it. It doesn’t of course help that you work for a racist @$$h@t that used the word but it means, at least I hope, that such awful language is becoming so less prevalent that some young people like myself have never heard it before.
Anonymous
I am just so, so sorry this happened to you and that no one else said anything.
Please report to HR tomorrow whether or not you go in the office.
Anonymous
what in the actual f- – – . that is completely horrifying. i would have reacted the same: shock, tears, regret, fear… I AM SO SORRY THIS HAPPENED TO YOU, no one deserves to be the target of racial slurs. please act on this. for yourself, and for anyone else who comes after you. that racist @$$ should be fired.
Anonymous
Why are you commenting on this? This is 100% not real.
Idea
You’re joking, right? What makes you think it’s not real at all? Way worse happens all the time, and I find it more credible to believe that it happened. It sounds completely believable to me.
anon
It’s super easy to believe things like this when you see them happen over and over again. It could totally be a troll, but this has happened to me multiple times and is 100% believable.
Anonymous
I hope you don’t work in HR, Anonymous @10:44
Anonymous
What? My mouth is actually open right now. This happened in a conference room type setting?
I just…wow.
Does this person actually know your name and called you this? It’s not important, just curious if he was using it (POORLY) as a substitute for “that chick in the grey sweater” or your actual name.
anon
Has anyone read How to Win Friends and Influence People? Is it worth reading in full, or is it the kind of thing where I can get as much out of it by reading about it?