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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 324 Comments · by

Suit of the Week: Reiss

Suit of the Week

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Reiss Millie ONE BUTTON TAILORED JACKETFor busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. OK. Slim pickings for suits this week (boo!) so let's talk about this suit, which I stop at *every week* while looking for suits, and then remember that it's been styled in a hideous, hideous way, and move on. But not this week! Sure, the model looks like she was running late for work and accidentally grabbed her much larger roommate's clothes, then got attacked by a zombie, and now WOULD LIKE TO EAT YOUR BRAIN. And oh, her neck hurts, which is why she's hunching her shoulders so. But let's ignore all that, and focus on the suit. Love the grainy charcoal, and I actually think all of the darting and seaming (in the back, around the waist, around the bum, etc. — would make it a really flattering, beautiful jacket on a woman who is not a zombie model. The jacket (Reiss Millie ONE BUTTON TAILORED JACKET) is $360, the skirt (Reiss Lucia FRILL BACK TAILORED PENCIL SKIRT) is $170 (frill back pictured), and the very nearly sold out pants (Paris Pants) are $180.
Reiss Millie ONE BUTTON TAILORED JACKET Reiss Lucia FRILL BACK TAILORED PENCIL SKIRT
(L-5)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

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About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anon for this

    Pretty suit.

    Threadjack immediately: What is a good amount for a 30 year old to have as her net worth? I know it depends seriously on how much you make, where you live, etc., but I just realized last night that my husband and I together (both 30 years old) have about $130,000 in worth (including 401ks, stock market, equity in house, savings account, but not including things like our paid-off cars, etc.). Is that a good amount?

    • Anon for this

      For context, I’ve been practicing for about two years at big law; my husband makes about $45,000 per year.

    • Motoko Kusanagi

      Seriously, I think “what is a good amount for a 30 year old to have as her net worth?” without any other information or limitation is like asking “which book is best?” There are so.many.factors at play that there is no right answer.

      • nona

        Agreed. What metric are you trying to gauge? Why do you want to know the answer?

      • Anon for this

        Yeah, I get that, for sure. I’m just a Type A – ha ha. I guess I’d just like to know how much people our age “usually” have saved. Are we average, above average, below average?

        • Herbie

          I don’t think there is any usual. Everybody’s situations are so different.

    • Bluejay

      I have negative net worth and I don’t think I know any 30 y/os who have positive net worth (because we all have student loans and the ones who own homes have mortgages). So congratulations! Honestly this comment strikes me as a humblebrag, although I don’t think you meant it that way.

      • Anon for this

        I can see now how it came off that way – sorry. I really didn’t mean it that way. I just want to know if we’re on track, but there’s no good way to answer that.

        By the way, you’re right that my math is off – I have a much bigger mortgage than equity in my house, so I just ignored that part. Oops.

        • Bluejay

          No worries. I didn’t think you meant it that way. I’m sure we all have phrased things in a way that unintentionally ruffles someone’s feathers at some point.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          My feathers weren’t ruffled! I just immediately thought *humble brag* and smiled and laughed. I am totally guilty of the humble brag at times.

        • anon

          I think you are misunderstanding the calcualtion. You take the value of your house, subtract the balance on your mortage, and that entire part (also known as the equity) is attributable to your net worth. So the equity you have in your house DOES all count, and you do not count your mortgag because you could sell the house and repay it, so it’s not a true liability (assuming your house is worth more than you owe). For example, your house is worth 500K and you owe 440K on your mortgage. 60K goes to your net worth.

          • anon atty

            ohh, this is really helpful info — i always thought it was the other way. i totally have a positive net worth — woo hooo. just made my day

      • eek

        Yeah, I too have negative net worth, which is why I have term life insurance. Go me. I have a #winning personality, however. haha.

      • Anon

        I think she DID mean it as a humble-brag. OMG, I’m just soooo Type A. Am I better than you? Oh gosh, I guess I’m better than you.

    • Anon too

      I’m sure that Suze Orman or some of those financial gurus may give guidelines on this. I’m 33, DH is 38 and our net worth including all of the things you mentioned is $800 K with no debt. I only know this because we recently drafted our wills, and we had to plot everything out. Both of us are earning Big Law salaries (although my husband is not a lawyer, but in a similar compensated field). I have no idea where we fall in the spectrum for our age group/amount of work experience.

      • Anonymous

        She wants us all to have 8 months’ bills in cash.

        Not net worth but checking acct goal.

    • TCFKAG

      A billlllllliiooooon dollars.

      But unfortunately, I’m not sure that’s going to be feasible. :-P

    • Wow

      Mid 30s, married, about 500 K. But this is because we have no grad school debt (DH did his PhD and got paid a small stipend, I went to law school on a full ride). I realize how lucky we are.

    • Former Partner, Now In-House

      I agree that this question has too many unstated assumptions/unanswered desires in it to answer, including:

      * what standard of living do you want when you retire
      * what do you think tax rates will be when you retire
      * what is your risk tolerance
      * what do you assume as growth rate

      However, just last week Fidelity released a report that addresses the question based on age. I will post in the next comment a link to the NYT bucks blog article about it. It is worth reading.

      Something that is more worth doing is:

      * sitting down with your husband and making a list of every financial asset and obligation you have
      * putting all the assets on one side of a piece of paper and all the obligations on the other
      * having a long talk about what you each want over your working lives and in retirement and how much that will cost
      * seeing whether your money is sitting where it should and doing what it should to be consistent with your desires
      * if not, making it so (probably by talking to a financial advisor)

      As a former AmLaw 200 partner, I also highly recommend that you think about what you want your finances to look like before you ever leave BigLaw. The day may come when you want to take a different, less remunerative, job. When that happens, you want to have saved as much money as possible already so that you have the freedom to do so without sacrificing long term goals.

          • Former Partner, Now In-House

            I think it’s a nice starting place, but it omits so many parts of the picture. Will you have support from anywhere else (pension, SS, inheritance)? Tax rates in retirement? How much money do you want in retirement? Health expenses — ie, have you also bought long term care insurance, or do you plan to pay for that out of pocket? What do you want to leave behind, or are you content to spend it all? I could go on.

            But it is at least a stake in the ground around which you can ask yourself questions and get closer to your own answer.

        • InfoGeek

          That’s really interesting and I hadn’t seen it. Thanks!

          I’m in the window between 40 (2x) and 45 (3x). That extra multiple is a lot of money, especially if a job/position change bumps your salary. We’re also in the college years for our daughter, so I’m certainly not feeling that I have extra money to sock away right now.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I think the Vanguard website has calculators where you can guesstimate how much money you will need for retirement and the. How much you should be putting in a retirement account each month to get there. That might be a good place to start.

      • Sydney Bristow

        Stupid iPad typing. That should say “and then figure out how much”

    • AnoninMA

      DH and I are 28. Our “net worth,” using the assets you listed, is about $150k. Our assets are a lot higher, but we have a pretty big mortgage and some residual student loans.

      Combined, we make about $220k annually, but that is a very recent change since DH just finished grad school.

      Not sure if that helps you.

      • AnoninMA

        Also: we actually have a goal to have a net worth of $200k before we have a child, which we’re thinking about for mid 2013.

        • c

          Okay, hang on, I’m confused. I’ll betray my liberal arts background. Why does your big mortgage mean your assets are higher than your net worth? If you bought a house for $200,000, and you’ve paid off $40,000, and the house hasn’t decreased in value, then you have $40,000 in net worth, right? And the same if your mortgage was $500,000 or whatever? Is your concern just that the house has gone down in value?

          • AnoninMA

            you’re not confused. i’m just bad at math. You’re right. I was counting our outstanding $$ on the house as debt.

            Looking at it that way, I guess our net worth is more like $280 since we have $130k of equity in our house, which is worth just about what we paid for it, maybe a little more.

            Good thing I’m not in finance, right?

          • AnoninMA

            wait, even that’s not right. IDK, we have about $210k in the bank (retirement, stock, cash, etc), and have $130k in the house. We owe $60k in loans.

            you guys do the math.

          • Former Partner, Now In-House

            Take a piece of paper.
            Draw a line down the middle.
            Write “assets” on the left side.
            Write “debts” on the right side.
            On the left side, put the fair market value of your house today.
            On the right side, put the amount still due on your mortgage.
            Repeat with everything you “own” (cars, tuition, bank accounts of all kinds)
            Add up the “assets” side.
            Add up the “debts” side.
            Subtract debts from assets to get your net worth (which may or may not be a positive number, as in “a number greater than zero”).

          • AmyRenee

            Or if you don’t want to do math at all, enter all your bank accounts, loans, house, car value etc into Mint and it will do it for you. I’m in my early 30s and have 2 kids and I’m just happy our number is finally positive, to give you some perspective from the other side. I can’t imagine having a net worth of 200k right now, but I also live in the midwest where salaries and cost of living are much lower.

      • ELS

        I just had this reaction.

        I really need to stop reading the comments here. So often they make me feel bad about myself for no good reason. Great for everyone else, but so few of us are capable of having a positive net worth at 30.

        • Turtle Wexler

          The only reason I have a positive net worth at 30 is because of my husband. He’s been working in a well-paying job for a lot longer than I have, had substantial savings when we married, paid down a big chunk of my law school loans, and provided most of our downpayment. Not to mention, I got off lightly with law school loans because he took care of the rent during that time so I didn’t have to worry about it. If I was on my own, I’d be way, way, way in the red. The feminist in me kind of hates to admit that I’m in relatively good financial shape because of a man, but there it is.

        • Dr. Cox

          Likewise. I’m 28 and my net worth is well over -$200k. Now I want to cry.

        • AJD

          Agreed. We don’t even have a house but have negative net worth b/c of two lawyers with 100k+ student loans.

    • Cornellian

      No clue. There are all sorts of retirement calculators.

      I’m 26, not married, no kids, and have a net worth of maybe 50K

    • Ellen

      I really think this depend’s. But you sound pretty well off. I will ask my dad b/c he alway’s says I am better off married to a guy and we file a JOINT return then filing singeley. Also, it depend’s on where you live, if you have a morgage, and if you are thinkeing of moveing to a nice place and have KID’s. Those are hopefulley on the horizon for me to!

      I hope my dad will build this into MY financeial plan, but without having a HUSBAND, I can NOT figure what he is going to do other then be the father to our children. My mom said I can wear HER wedding dress, but I do not like it that much, and it is OVER 30 year’s old!

    • Daisy

      Like so many others have said, it depends on a lot – namely your long term goals including when you want to retire, whether you’re having kids and hope to pay for their college, etc.

      If you want my *personal* opinion, I don’t think that’s a “good” net worth. It’s not “bad” either – tons of people are in much worse shape, of course. I have no idea how long you’ve been working or if this is even realistic, but my rule of thumb for being in good shape for a comfortable retirement is someone who has maxed out their 401k/Roth every year and saved some more on top of that. It doesn’t look like you’re there, even if you both spent some time in grad school. But like I said, it’s a rough rule of thumb for me, and not necessarily “fair” given someone else’s circumstances and goals.

    • J

      I’m 30, my husband is 33. Our net worth is about $1.5 million. I can’t claim credit for any of that, since my outstanding law school loan balance is dramatically higher than my savings (about $20,000 in investment accounts). I feel like our net worth is considerably higher than many people our age, but not necessarily unusual given that we live in San Francisco.

    • Maria

      I’m 29 and have a net worth of $190k, though this is due primarily to my parents paying my way through an Ivy League undergrad + an MBA. If I’d had to pay for my own education, I would probably just be breaking even! My personal goal is to double my net worth every five years, so my next target is $400k at 35.

      I’d say that $170k is a pretty good start for you and your husband, considering that most people in our age bracket still have a negative net worth. But you still have many years of hard work ahead of you before you can start to relax, especially if you are planning on pursuing further education/having kids/covering your healthcare expenses in retirement. (Sigh.)

  2. ChinaRette

    Love the suit, hate the pose! Related to the conference networking thread from yesterday…any women have advice on turning networking leads into job leads? I just relocated to a new area without many connections, and I’ve been so impressed with the help that a few contacts have provided. I’ve gotten great feedback on my resume and how to present myself. However, I haven’t had much success generating concrete job leads. Now I’ve run through most of my initial contacts and the people they suggested, but I’m still almost empty-handed as far as job leads go. Any tips on how to refresh your search when you hit a networking wall, and tips finding job leads from networking? I’m pretty young (~3 years of work experience), so I’m looking at lower-level but not entirely entry-level positions.

    • AmyRenee

      Depends on your field, but unfortunately given the current job environment you might have to start back at entry level. In my field, less than 5 years experience is a strange no-man’s land – not really enough experience to be let loose on your own, but not entry level either. We have an entry level program at my company that is designed for new college graduates, but in the past few years I would say 75% of people in the program actually have 2-3 years work experience instead of being truly entry level. I know it frustrates some of them, but on the other hand, they are being judged against a lower standard, so they generally move up more quickly than people fresh out of college. So I would suggest applying for entry level jobs as well, and looking into local colleges to see if they have career fairs you could go to. Even with several years work experience I wound up taking a job that didn’t even require a degree just to get my foot in the door at my last company, and I moved into higher positions as people left. So don’t worry about positions being “beneath you,” just look at them as opportunities to learn from the ground up.

      • ChinaRette

        Great comment. I was thinking along the same lines. Entry-level really isn’t entry level in this economy; but hopefully with the lessons I’ve learned, I can move up quickly. Thanks for your thoughts!

    • KC

      Big fan of the zombie commentary, big fan. And the Godzilla imagery.

      ^Hivefives all around.

    • Bonnie

      They’ve really frumpified a nice suit. The low waisted peplum top is a poor choice too.

      • Herbie

        Does it say anything about me that I just spent 5 minutes searching Google Images because I wondered if Godzillas would even be physically capable of hivefiving? I keep confusing Godzilla arms for t-rex arms.

        • eek

          I confuse the two as well. TRex = Godzilla to me. And then I think of Rex from Toy Story…”I just don’t think I could take that kind of rejection!”

          • e_pontellier

            +1. I am laughing out loud IN CLASS (and trying to turn it into an awkward cough)

          • CKB

            I always think of the T-Rex in Meet the Robinsons “I have a big head and little arms”.

          • SF Bay Associate

            Oh, me too! I was thinking of Rex. Right, Godzilla is different. Duh, self. But are Godzilla’s arms that short??

        • lawsuited

          Wait, what? Everyone knows that Godzilla is a T-Rex, and Herbie is an anthropomorphic VW beetle, and Barrister in the Bayou is an alligator wearing barrister robes and riding a swamp boat, and Bluejay is the Toronto baseball team mascot, and mamabear is, well, a bear not dissimilar from the plastic container that honey comes in, right? Right??

          • zora

            I truly apologize to everyone, but i am way too much of a nerd to not point out that, according to Wikipedia, which we all know is the ultimate unimpeachable source of all knowledge:

            Godzilla’s approximate appearance, regardless of the design of the suit utilized for the creature, remains the same general shape, which is instantly recognizable: a giant, bipedal mutant Dinosaur with rough, bumpy scales….. Godzilla has the head and lower body of a Tyrannosaurus, a triple row of dorsal plates reminiscent of a Stegosaurus, the neck and forearms of Iguanodon and the tail and skin texture of an alligator, and crocodile.

            So, not strictly a T Rex… but Godzilla is her very own fabulous unique creature, which of course we all knew already ;o)

          • Godzilla

            I wish I could wipe away the tears of laughter directly due to this thread. HIVEFIVE FOR ALL.

          • Herbie

            Zora, seriously, are you me??

            I spent like 10 minutes writing out a comment related to my belief that, while Godzilla is a lizard and t-rex is the lizard king, they are technically two distinct species with different features.

            And then I deleted it and redlined a contract in my nerdy shame instead.

            Hivefives for everyone!!

          • Big Fail For Me...

            Wow. I fail at life. Haha…every time I thought of Godzilla…I was picturing King Kong. I thought Godzilla was an APE and was wondering what all the TRex talk was about! I’m really not that clueless, I just don’t watch TV. haha.

          • Godzilla

            One of my junior engineers caught me looking at dinosaur pictures. I am not ashamed AT ALL.

          • Barrister in the Bayou

            Lawsuited, I don’t know if you’ll see this or not… but I think I love you! ;-)

          • mamabear

            @Big Fail For Me
            Right until this very instant, I also thought Godzilla was King Kong. Right until I read your comment. I am 47 years old.

          • Big Fail For Me...

            Oh good! I’m not alone in my ignorance. Haha.

            I mentioned this to my husband tonight and he literally pulled the car off the road and told me to get out. LOL

          • Herbie

            @Big Fail For Me – I just laughed out loud in my office at your comment re your husband. Too funny.

        • Jordan

          A Godzilla could definitely high five an ordinary T-Rex. There is no doubt.

    • Herbie

      Kat, I really hope in the future you’ll be more sensitive to our R e t t e s who are zombies. It’s possible to pursue an undead career in eating braiiiiinnnsss all the while looking quite fashionable.

      RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

      • Honey Pillows

        *SNERK*

        I may have just choked on my afternoon coffee, but this can be neither confirmed nor denied, because I’m busy trying to pull off a “I’m totally focused on work and not laughing” face.

      • Liana

        *snort.* Major awesome points. I certainly feel like a zombie by this part of the day. Hence the requisite afternoon coffee.

  4. js

    TJ: Thought I’d ask this group of get-out-there-and-grab-what-you-want type women…..
    How important is/was it to you to be surprised by an engagement proposal? I’d like there to be some element of surprise, but we very much plan to get married and have a family together and have been together for 5+ years.

    Part II: Are there any conversations you wish you had had before becoming officially ‘engaged’? We’ve had religion/kids/finance talks before, but I guess I’m wondering how specific other people get (exactly how to do your/mine/ours accounts, exactly how many kids, etc)

    Thanks for any wisdom!

    • ChinaRette

      Hah–my now husband told me at the time, “we’re talking this over beforehand, because I don’t want there to be ANY element of surprise when I’m waiting for your answer!” :). However, the actual proposal itself was a total surprise. Sure, I knew it was coming at some point. But the moment he picked was still surprising and special.

      My husband and I extensively discussed our values before getting engaged–basically what you would do in premarital counseling. I’m glad that we spent a lot of time discussing our parents’ relationships and what we learned from them (or, often, were concerned by/didn’t want to imitate in our own marriage). Yet even after that, you can’t predict everything. I am still surprised by my husband’s ideas/thoughts/concerns on a regular basis.

    • Cat

      1. I wanted the proposal to be a surprise, so after we were far enough down the path of “proposal is only a matter of time,” we went ring shopping and tried on a variety of styles. I picked a favorite style, told now-DH that my order of priority was cut, then size, then color, then clarity, and let him decide when and how (it was about 6 months later). (On the timing part, we were in our early 20’s at this point, so there was NO urgency on the starting a family vs. proposal/marriage timing point.)

      2. We did have some money talks along the yours /mine / ours (we’re an “ours” couple), but as far as planning out specifics like how many kids, whose career will take priority (i.e., what if one of us would need to move?), etc., we talked about it a little to make sure we weren’t unexpectedly far apart on something, but actually thought it was more important that we could trust our future selves to age into those decisions as they arise. So far so good, 5 years in :)

    • TCFKAG

      1. Our engagement WAS a surprise to me. Though looking back on it, I can’t imagine why since about six weeks before we had the following discussion “you know how we wanted to get married in the fall…well if we’re going to get married in the fall of xxxx, well, we need to get engaged sometime in the nearish future.” And then we had a weekend in a hotel in our city where we went out to dinner and to a show and etc and yet…somehow…I was still surprised. I think that says more about me being a bit out of it than anything else.

      2. My husband and I had pre-co-habitated for three years before we even got engaged. We had also formed a domestic partnership, so we had merged our finances to a large extent (for the purposes of health care) before we got married. But one thing they did at pre-canon (catholic marriage camp) that I liked was they had us write on paper a bunch of things and one of them was “What is the thing you are most uncomfortable talking about with your husband/wife?” And somehow that got us to talk about things that we both knew were issues but that weren’t traditional issues. But I think the most important issue is determining how you both communicate and resolve conflicts — because in the end, you can’t know before hand what conflicts will arise. Only if you have compatible ways of dealing with them. Oh…and talk about chores and child-REARING philosophy (like, how much responsibility does each party have for the child) — not just whether there will be child.

      Okay, that’s all I can think of now.

    • BIGSECRET

      DH thought he surprised me, and I’ve always let him believe it.

      I really did want to be surprised, but I’m really observant and DH doesn’t have a poker face.

    • CA lawyer

      I think it’s fine for the decision to get married to be the result of a conversation with no proposal and no surprise.

      • Anonymous Poser

        +1
        That’s what we did–a conversation instead of a proposal. But then, I also requested that there be no engagement ring.

    • CKB

      Our engagement was a surprise to us both. Dh hadn’t planned on asking me, but the time was right. One of our only spur of the moment decisions as a couple, actually. We went ring shopping together the next day.

      • Merabella

        I kind of had this plus a surprise engagement moment.

        My DH spontaneously proposed one night after going out with friends (sans ring). The next day we went ring shopping.

        About 2 months later when he had the ring he proposed in front of our friends when we were out one night. I was COMPLETELY surprised, I had ratty clothes on and no make up. It was still pretty awesome.

    • Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

      I’m in the same boat (6 year relationship, given him “options”) and while I like to think that I am a progressive woman (and in certain ways I am) I do want to be surprised. However, my impatience and need to control everything around me is getting in the way. I hate waiting!

    • lawsuited

      Talk about how you’re going to split holidays between your two families, and how you might deal with pushback from your two families (from this decision and other decisions you’ll make together). The biggest showdown in the history of my relationship with DH was last year when he did not spend Christmas with his family.

      • Jenna Rink

        This! The biggest stress of our marriage by far has been splitting holidays. Have realistic expectations in place before you need them. Figure out which holidays are a big deal and what will seem fair to each of you. For us Thanksgiving is no biggie (we celebrate with his family the day of and mine the next day) but Christmas is a living nightmare. Three years in and we’re just starting to find a divide we can both live with. We both really love Christmas, which made giving up our own family traditions hard.

        • Former Jolly Elf, Now Grumpy Grinch

          “Christmas is a living nightmare.” oh yes.

          In addition to pre-planning dividing holidays, better consider now how you will deal with potentially differing family styles. As one raised in a Let’s Make
          Our Arrangements By Discussion And Consensus family, MIL’s command performances that are scheduled without regard to anyone else’s plans or obligations still make me livid every. single. time.

    • Jordan

      Agree. I am terrified of someone proposing to me as a surprise. That does not sound like your situation though js. I like ChinaRette’s H’s approach. I am way too type A to be blind-sided, potentially in public, with a decision like that.

    • EC MD

      Mine wasn’t a huge surprise. We’d gone ring shopping together, he’d started obsessively internet researching diamonds (one of my most favorite traits of my husband is that he can obsessively learn as much as he can about any topic — he was probably our city’s leading diamond expert immediately before he purchased my ring) and at some point I’d actually had to cut him off from discussing the details of the ring with me because I wanted a little bit of a surprise. I knew the ring was coming with us on the hiking trip through Switzerland that we took, but he chose the exact moment to ask me.

    • Research, Not Law

      I wanted to be surprised, but DH really wanted me to be surprised. Although I knew it was coming and had helped in picking a ring (I picked out a couple of settings and he went later to pick one and a stone), he went out of his way to throw me off, including arranging several ‘proposable’ moments until I went off high-alert. The ring and proposal were a surprised, and it was awesome. I only made him promise that it would be in private.

      We talked nitty gritty beforehand, as we’d both been burned in the past. We talked number of children, parenting style, lifestyle and finances (idealic and realistic), career-life vs home-life, where specifically we wanted to live, etc. An exercise which really helped us was to independently draw up our five-year plan, then compare and discuss.

    • Honey Pillows

      I have weird old-school pre-feminist desires on certain, particular things, and getting engaged is one of them. I’ve told all of my friends exactly what I want in an engagement ring (a ring based on my grandmother’s non-precious, plated metal ring -blue sapphire oval center stone encircled by small diamonds in a gold setting -I was annoyed when I saw that Diana/Kate’s ring was very similar), and told them it’s their job to instruct my future fiance (whenever that becomes a reality) in the procurement of said ring.

      I’d also like to be consulted before I’m proposed to, but consulted along the lines of “I’m really happy to be with you, and I’d like to know where this relationship is going. I’d be really happy to marry you someday,” not the “Hey, we should get married. What do you think about that?” kind of way.

      I feel like that’s a pre-proposal, although the feminist and realist in me knows that does make sense, and begrudgingly admits that that’s probably the way it’s going to happen, and that the traditional proposal smacks of uncomfortable gender politics.

    • LadyEnginerd

      With my friends, and for me personally, typically some external event happens where the two of you, as a couple, need to decide whether you’re in it together or whether you will go your separate ways. Usually this is entering/finishing graduate school, a job relocation, or something like that. The couples who do decide to take that next step/move to that next city together usually have talked about marriage fairly concretely during that process (to decide whether they are, in fact, in it together for the long haul). So by the time of the proposal, with most of my friends it’s usually a done deal, but both parties want to make it a special memory to commemorate the occasion.

      The specifics for me, personally? We made a date to go ring shopping together, and I looked forward to it for months. I chose the style of the setting (rule of thumb: the one you don’t want to take off is probably it), and he kicked me out of the store for the money talk. The one thing I told him was that I wanted to get a manicure the day he was planning on proposing, for obvious bling-related reasons :) I knew it was game time when he brought me to a nail salon and then out to a nice dinner, but it was really special for both of us to formally mark the occasion with him Actually Asking and me Actually Saying Yes, and then putting the ring on my finger and announcing to the world that we intend to get married.

      Side note: he knew I was on to him, so we went for a walk and watched the sunset and he proposed BEFORE a nice dinner, leaving us to enjoy the nice dinner in celebration. I might have burst with anticipation if he did it at dessert!

    • anonahol

      “Talk about how you’re going to split holidays between your two families, and how you might deal with pushback from your two families (from this decision and other decisions you’ll make together). The biggest showdown in the history of my relationship with DH was last year when he did not spend Christmas with his family.”
      THIS x a million. Just because the two of you agree on everything, your parents (and others) may not. You need to start practicing to be a united front, basically.

      re: engagement, I had so many “close calls” – times when I thought we would get engaged, but we didn’t, that by the time it finally happened, I was shocked. He invited me to go to Rome with him, but he was on business, and it almost seemed *too* obvious. I was really happened to have been shocked & have a special memory/story to go along with it. As others have said, we discussed wedding timing & plans for years before this went down. I knew it was coming, just not when/how/what the ring would be like.

    • IronGirl

      Part I: total shock
      Part II: talk about what you’re both willing to do to have kids if it doesn’t just happen. I found out the hard way that I was willing to do all kinds of things, and he wasn’t willing to do anything extra. Needless to say, bad result.

      • Midori

        Yes. The children discussion is probably best done via hypotheticals. I don’t think there’s any other area of life that defies the control freak more than conception and birth. And people change their outlook over time and circumstances. What would you do if you couldn’t have kids? How would you handle an unexpected pregnancy? What about a disabled child? Etc.

    • petitesq

      Similar boat here. Live with my SO, picked out the ring and he’s already purchased it/is paying on it (as we learned a couple of weeks ago on this site because I couldn’t bear to keep it a secret); we talk about marriage and family frequently and easily.

      Doing this in reverse: As to specifics, we have talked about both specific wedding planning ideas (probably March 2014, Catholic wedding, attendants, etc,) and specific life planning ideas (accounts, kids and when we want them, buying our next house, credit scores, amount of debt, salaries). I think as much detail as you’re comfortable with is good– I keep seeing a book about something to the effect of “30 conversations to have before you get engaged,” or something similar, and we’ve pretty much had all of the discussions in there. (Also big: what if we can’t have children naturally).

      As to the timing, I have to start by admitting that I hate surprises. Yaaaay Type-A control freaks! I’ve told him this many times, but it is important to him that there to be an element of tradition and a great story to tell. That said, we’ve already discussed and agreed that getting engaged in the next year was likely, and he specified that it will likely be before March or April. For me, even though we’d said very openly “this is it, I know you’re the one,” it was still disconcerting to not have any input or control over it, and I didn’t want there to be as much unknown as there was. That said, somehow, knowing that he actually bought the ring has made it enough for me. I think because it’s “real” somehow in a way it wasn’t before? Somehow it’s allowed me to be excited about the actual method and timing being a surprise. ::shrug::

      ^sincere apologies if that was incoherent.

  5. Brooklyn, Esq.

    Haha…this post made me laugh. Like the jacket, not sure about the strange back to the skirt.

    Threadjack: For those of you who use a cleaning service, how much do you tip the cleaning person? The cost of our biweekly cleaning (first session today, yay!!!!) is around $90. The service promises that the same person will return each time (barring sick days), so cultivating a good relationship is important, I think.

    • Diana Barry

      I give a big tip (cost of one cleaning) at Xmas, but our ‘service’ is just one person, so we are tipping the owner.

        • Brooklyn, Esq.

          Somehow I totally blanked on the tipping at Christmas thing? I guess it’s because the cleaning service gives instructions on how to leave the gratuity if one chooses to do so (i.e., separate from payment). Well then.

          • Bluejay

            I mean, I don’t think there’s one right way to do it. Maybe you should just aim to tip an amount equal to the cost of one cleaning over the course of the year?

    • Anon

      We don’t tip except at Christmas. We get the same 2-3 people each time, from the cleaning company.

        • anonz

          Do you give each person the equivalent of a service visit or split it between them? I used to have one person and gave her one service visit for the holidays but now I have a service with two women so that’s why I’m asking.

          • Bluejay

            I leave cash on the table in 10s and let them figure out how to split it up.

    • Daisy

      I tip $10 on a clean in the same ballpark (when I started and got the more expensive, deeper clean I tipped $20).

    • TBK

      At Christmas, I tip the cost of one cleaning plus a card and a box of high quality chocolates.

    • EC MD

      I have a woman who is an independent cleaner come every 2 weeks; total is 90. She sometimes brings another person to clean with her, but she is a small business owner. If I only have 20s I leave her 100, otherwise I leave her just 90. We’ll tip at Christmas, probably a full cleaning amount.

      And I love her. There is something so relaxing about coming home to a clean house.

      • Brooklyn, Esq.

        Thanks for all the perspectives, everyone!

        EC, are you in New York, by any chance? I went with the cleaning service so as not to put myself through the headache of finding someone independent, but I might want to go that route some day…

        • AnotherLadyLawyer

          I’ve had so many headaches with cleaning services! And my solo cleaning lady does such a better job than all of the fancy, organic, etc. services I’ve tried. If the headache is finding someone, ask your doormen, neighbors, and co-workers. My cleaning lady, whom I adore, came as a recommendation from my favorite ex-doorman and she came with me to two new apartments. I’ve also used a co-worker’s cleaning person when mine was on vacation for a month.

        • EC MD

          Not in NY; but I found her by acosting her one morning before she went into my neighbors house. I’d noticed she’d been cleaning for them for several months, so I figured she had to be reasonably decent.

        • Bluejay

          Ditto asking coworkers. My cleaning lady literally cleans for 1/2 of my department. We all love her.

    • JT

      No help, but can I ask what service you use? We’re in Brooklyn and looking for a trustworthy one, but all of my friends who use a cleaning lady/service are in Manhattan. Extra points if your service will travel to one of the still nice but less trendy and thus a further ride on the train neighborhoods!

      • Brooklyn, Esq.

        Today’s Maid. I used them once before for a one-time cleaning, the week before my wedding (very happy I did this, btw–I knew lots of people would be coming to our apartment and having it clean was a relief!). That person did a thorough job, but it didn’t blow me away or anything, which is why I’m still considering going elsewhere–will see how it goes today! But they were very easy to schedule very quickly, and the people on the phone were very nice. They cover most areas of Brooklyn (their office is on Meeker), Queens, and Manhattan. The person who came today arrived in her car, so I’ll bet they cover your neighborhood.

        PS: I put my email in my name if you ever want to talk other Brooklyn stuff!

        • JT

          Thanks, I’ll check them out. I’m not seeing your email, though, but I’d love to chat. We just moved to Brooklyn this year, and most lawyers I meet seem to look at me like I’m nuts (like moving to Stamford or out to the Island is a more respectable decision if you wanted to Manhattan).

          • Brooklyn, Esq.

            Just in case you’re monitoring this thread by email–I posted a longer response to you in the morning 9/20 thread. But here’s my email:
            cdeplume at gmail dot com

  6. Dallas?

    Threadjack: I think we have some Dallas ladies here. We’re looking at jobs there and are liberal NYers with two toddlers. Would you be able to suggest areas for us to consider? Also, are we crazy to consider this? Any advice would be appreciated!

    • Herbie

      Need more info – a lot depends on what you’re going to do re schools (public v. private). Plus where your jobs will be located, how you feel about commuting, etc. Feel free to contact this liberal Dallasite at [thiswebsite]herbie @ gmail dot com if you want to talk offline.

      • Dallas?

        Thanks! We want to do private and are looking at Plano but I will email you :)

        • SunnyD

          I don’t know much about Plano neighborhoods because I’ve always lived in Dallas, but I did go to private school here (granted, that was…oh…15 years ago). If you’re going to live on the north side of town and you want to do private school (particularly one that’s more liberal), I would look at Greenhill.

          You’re welcome to contact me as well: SunnyD6206@aol.com

          • Brant

            My DH went to Greenhill! He cared nothing about college or grad school sports–or professional sports, for that matter, but can go on and on about how awful St Marks and Episcopal are. To this day. He is almost 30.

        • Phoebe

          No longer a Dallasite, but grew up in the metroplex. Plano has a good school system, which is where my parents moved to during my sophomore year in college. I went to private and definitely recommend St. Mark’s or Hockaday, which are both single-sex schools. Greenhill is the next best choice, in my opinion. It’s co-ed. I would stay away from parochial schools in the area. They tend to not be good values in education. It’s not to say they’re bad, but some of the public schools in the area are just as good if not better. The three private schools I mentioned do tend to send the most kids to Ivies, if that’s your jam.

          I think you will find Plano a little bland, as it’s quite flat with not a lot of greenery, and many of the houses look extremely similar. For more character, University Park and Highland Park definitely have that. Plano, you’ll get more bang for your buck, though.

          If you live in Plano but plan to work downtown, expect at least a 30 minute commute.

          Happy to answer any other questions!

          • Herbie

            Re Plano’s school system… they did some redistricting this year or last. Some friends tell me that as a result, there are going to be ~3,000 kids in their son’s senior class at Plano West. About 45% of all high school students will be @ West. I know a number of people who are considering McKinney and Frisco ISDs as a result (though I can’t even fathom commuting from there to downtown Dallas for work, but to each her own).

            So while Plano’s school system has been strong consistently for many years, class size apparently is getting large enough to deter some parents.

          • SunnyD

            I didn’t go to Hockaday, but wish I had. If I had a son, I’d probably send him to Cistercian.

      • TX lawyer

        Another Dallasite here. I agree with Herbie that much depends on your preferences for private school vs. public school and the area in which you will work. Highland Park/University Park are generally regarded as good school districts for public school, and as a bonus the commute to downtown is short. However, HP houses are extremely pricy by Texas standards.

        • Another Dallas looker

          Thanks to you both! Our family has also been thinking about Dallas. What would you guys say the pros and cons are of living there? Thanks!

          • SunnyD

            By no means an exhaustive list:

            Pros: inexpensive cost of living (housing is cheap–although property taxes are higher, no state income tax); great airport and you can get to either coast in about 3-4 hours; diverse racially (I’ve read Dallas is approximately 1/3 white, 1/3 Hispanic, 1/3 black); diverse politically (it’s clearly conservative—but not everyone is a diehard Republican. In fact, I think Dallas County usually votes Democrat); good business environment (I think it’s a very entrepreneurial city); variety of religion options; growing arts community; decent to really nice weather 8 months a year (it’s sunny all winter and many winters I never wear my true winter coat); friendly people; awesome grocery stores (love to grocery shop!); very good clothing shopping options.

            Cons: it’s a driving city, not a walking city; some people commute a long way to work in heavy traffic; generally poor public schools in Dallas proper; hot, humid summers; not great restaurants (although I’m vegetarian so people may disagree).

            Well, that’s all I can think of as I procrastinate on doing my work. You can obviously see by which list is longer what I think about Dallas…

          • TX lawyer

            Pros: people are super friendly & kind; weather is pretty fabulous year-round; the legal market in Dallas is pretty good and I think the economy in general is pretty good; cost of living, particularly housing, is uber cheap compared to other parts of the country; no state income tax (although we have relatively high property taxes); great shopping.

            Cons: if you live in the suburbs and commute downtown, expect a long commute; school situations are kindof a mess; you have to drive everywhere.

            in sum, I love Dallas.

    • Seventh Sister

      My sister lives in Dallas, and every time I go there, I enjoy myself immensely even though I’m pretty blue-state and latte-sipping and whatnot. She lives near downtown and has no kids (some little kids in her condo complex, but people tend to move before K).

      People seem rather pleasant and quite kid-friendly. Her friends are diverse, international, and very open-minded. Commuter traffic looks pretty bad, but she lives and works close to downtown.

      Highland Park looks lovely (have relatives who live there) but she thinks it’s mad overpriced. Coming from a big city, it seems pretty reasonable to me, but I’d also rather buy a house in a good school district than shell out for private K-12.

  8. Anon for this

    What ever happened to no drama mama? I really liked her! She hasn’t been here in forever, at least that I’ve seen.

  9. NOLA

    TJ: Question for Facebook users. I’m not on Facebook. One of my supervisees (highly productive) mentioned that one of my other supervisees (not productive) is posting a lot on Facebook during the work day. She wasn’t saying it in a tattletale kind of way, just stating fact. I mentioned to the one posting that she needs to be careful about posting during the day because people do notice. She countered with something like people don’t like her political leanings. And I said, no, we all do things during the day taking breaks from work but when it’s on FB and you’re friends with work people, everyone knows. And she is FB friends with my boss. First, can I just say that this is one of many reasons why I’m not on FB? Also, any thoughts on how best to handle this?

    • Herbie

      Sounds like you’ve handled it. Isn’t she posting at her own peril now?

      • NOLA

        Yeah, I think so. I mean, she knows that I’m not on FB, but I just want to say to my staff that if you’re going to friend the boss’s boss, he might be paying attention! I mean, I don’t want to share my private life with people at work, so I just don’t.

      • eek

        I think you handled it ok. Also, I’m not on FB either so I guess we can’t be FB friends.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I would address the “not productive” thing, not the facebook thing (because you’re right, that’s just a “visible” way of slacking off while other people might use invisible ones – the point is that she’s slacking off) — I’d say something “I’m concerned you haven’t finished X, Y or Z when you have had ample time to do so. I’m concerned that you aren’t using your time here at work as effectively as you could be, since you’re devoting a good amount of time to non-work related tasks and you aren’t finishing the tasks given to you in a reasonable time at an appropriate level. That’s not only unacceptable, it will harm your reputation at this firm.”

      • Herbie

        Oh, I blew right past the productivity part. That changes things a bit.

        I wouldn’t focus on the Facebooking; her lack of productivity is the real issue that needs to get addressed. If you manage to get her to stop Facebooking without addressing the productivity issue, she’ll just waste her time another way.

      • NOLA

        Oh I’ve been addressing the not productive thing for awhile and for other reasons. I’ve had those conversations with her and she knows that I’m monitoring her productivity. And you’re right that it doesn’t matter if you’re posting on FB occasionally if you’re productive otherwise. But you make yourself a target if you are posting and not productive. Also, I’m at a university so it’s a little different but I get it.

    • L

      Sit her down and tell her she needs to stop it. She can post on FB via her phone when she’s on a break, but doing so multiple times while you’re at work (and work people have access to your profile) makes it appear as though you have too much free time/unprofessional. She can either restrict her posts so work people can’t see or stop posting so much.

      Use this as an opportunity to find out if she’s not productive because she wants more to do/authority/responsibilities or if she just genuinely doesn’t care.

        • L

          Hm. Then you might just tell her flat out when she posts on FB during work and she’s friends with your boss, you’re going to have a hard time defending her especially since she’s had productivity issues that you’re both working to address. If she keeps it up, she’s really letting you know where she stands.

    • Bluejay

      I’d probably ask IT to send you a log of the sites she’s visited. If you think she’s spending too much time on non-work sites, sit down with her, show her the log, and make it clear that your objection is the amount of time she’s spending on them, not what she’s posting. Make it clear that if it continues, you’ll escalate to HR (or whatever the next step is).

      God, I hope my boss never does this to me.

      • Godzilla

        IT emails all department heads staff internet histories every month/quarter.

        Kanye shrug.

        • NOLA

          I clicked on something this morning by mistake from my gmail and had a thought that I sure hoped nobody in IT was monitoring!!

          • Godzilla

            My favorite is when something innocuous gets blocked as p0rn. Or in the “distasteful” category. Whoops.

          • mamabear

            My kids’ school website was blocked for “adult content.”

            That worried me in two ways.

          • SoCalAtty

            Me too. I’ve worked at 2 different firms that monitored like this, and at one even bank sites were blocked so we couldn’t even check our bank balances. The other was taking screen shots every 30 seconds (gee, I wonder why he had “server full” errors all the time…) so he could read everything you wrote. It was creepy – and that guy was a solo! (I was an intern…for about 4 weeks)

          • Godzilla

            Our bosses straight up told us that our internet usage is being monitored. They didn’t have to. I’d always assume that your internet usage *is* being recorded in some form.

    • Mpls

      Sounds like it might be a productivity issue – or perceived productivity issue? A kind of “If you are posting on FB all the time, then you must not have enough work stuff to do” sort of thing. Our office ended up blocking FB access at work – so if nobody is using FB for legitimate work stuff (promoting events, networking, checking out people for professional reasons), that could be a step in the name of productivity.

    • ChinaRette

      Just be straightforward. I’d address the general productivity issue (which Facebook is a symptom of), rather than just the Facebook issue. Be concrete and specific about her non-productivity: “I’m concerned because I assigned you X and thought you could finish it in 3 days, but it stretched to two weeks/I’ve noticed that you struggled to finish Y without several reminders from me to finish.” Ask her why she’s slower than expected–maybe she’ll say she doesn’t know how to do it more quickly, perhaps she’ll say she doesn’t have enough time–then address her concerns directly as she states them. I’d try and help direct her on how she can channel energy and be more efficient, rather than scold her on how she’s slacking. Otherwise you might end up with some resentful direct reports on your hands.

      It can be hard to focus on menial tasks when there are so many distractions like FB available. I know I sometimes dawdled that way when I did one internship, because it seemed like such a little thing to take bites of time here and there from a not-so-important-to-me task. But it adds up. Sometimes the intern just needs to see that someone is watching and noting.

    • zora

      I’m sorry, “Not on Facebook”? I don’t understand.. what do those words even mean?

  10. KLG

    Received and accepted a phenomenal job offer today! So excited to FINALLY get some good news and to be able to walk away from my jerkface boss! Thanks to everyone who ever offered encouragement, advice, or commiseration. And for those who have been looking forever, hang in there!!! I first applied for this job in August 2011 and heard crickets. They called three weeks ago to ask if I was still interested in the position. They interviewed me two weeks ago and and I got an offer today. Amazing.

  11. karenpadi

    I also posted this article in our dating group on FB for the single ladies but I am curious about what the overachieving chicks here think. Link to follow.

    • Cornellian

      I definitely do know some men like this. I think it’s truly a sort of confusing time to be a Western man. In my age group (college educated mid 20s), women are outearning them, and it seems there’s a lot of confusion about gender roles and what this means. I also think we tend to coddle boys, for lack of a better word, and don’t hold them to the same standards of responsibility as we do our daughters. Boys will be boys, they love drinking, I’m sure he’ll settle down soon and stop womanizing, he has time to figure out what he wants to do, etc. I think men my age have ended up less capable and less secure than the women, and it is worrying.

      My (ex?)boyfriend and I had a disagreement about this… he was very supportive, and pulled his own financially, but I felt like it was on my shoulders to figure out if/when we should get married, if/when we should go on vacation, what our social life should lok like, etc. When we broke up he did all of that stuff by himself, which is why I’m considering pursuing a relationship with him again. I don’t want to run myself ragged working full time and parenting my partner.

      • karenpadi

        Yes, I had a similar boyfriend where I was in charge of so many of “our” decisions. Being the man, he got all the credit for the decisions that turned out well from our circle of friends. I took the blame in private for all the decisions that didn’t turn out quite so well. It was exhausting.

        Good luck! It’s difficult to decide on getting back together.

    • 2L (formerly 1L)

      I agree 100% with the article. In my school, at least, the hyper-organized, take-charge-of-his-life man is replaced with the video-game-playing, disorganized, drinking man-child. (For the most part – there are some exceptions).

      And they’re all between 23 and 30, which in any other era would be prime career-building, baby-making time. That all seems to have been postponed in place of an extended adolescence.

  12. De

    I know there have been a couple of discussions here about online dating…but has anyone ever used the finding new friends versions? A girl I went to law school with apparently had some luck after she moved a few states away, I was just wondering if anyone else had ever used such sites, and if so, which ones?

    • Wow

      I did not realize there were sites like this! Can you tell me the name of one?

      • De

        Well…that’s why I posted. I heard through another friend that the girl loved the site, but she couldn’t remember the name, I don’t have the girl’s email address…you know how it goes. But basically all of my friends moved to other states after graduation and so I wanted to check it out myself!

        • zora

          I found a couple just from an internet search a while ago:
          girlfriendsocial.com and girlfriendcircles.com

          but the only things i know about them are from reading the testimonials on their sites, so do not read this as an endorsement of either of them. ;o)

          But honestly, I have made a few awesome IRL friends from meetups and connecting from this site, so I would recommend trying here, too. ;o) I posted at one point where I had just moved to and that i wanted more friends, and a couple of folks responded and we met up for drinks, and now i have a few awesome friends that i get to hang out with!! Yay! And huge HiveFive to Kat for creating this place, thanks!

        • Blonde Lawyer

          A friend of mine had good luck in the Boston area with Meetup.com. She used it to meet other kayakers.

  13. Continuing the Canadian theme

    Continuing the Canadian theme from this morning – my boyfriend and I are planning a long weekend getaway to Quebec City in a couple of weeks. We will be driving there so are pretty mobile. Recommendations for restaurants and things to do? TIA!

    • TO lawyer

      Quebec City is beautiful… check out Old Quebec – there’s cobblestone streets and it’s really lovely to just wander around.

      Besides that, I haven’t been there in a few years so I can’t remember any specific recommendations and I went in winter, so there was skiing and tubing involved, but I’m sure you’ll have a great time. It’s a little quieter than Montreal (and very French…) I would make sure you know at least a few key French phrases before you go (if you don’t already…)

    • JT

      We honeymooned there a few years ago (it was October and chilly/rainy). We had a fantastic, cozy dinner at Aux Anciens Canadiens. We also enjoyed the museums (art museum, musee de la civilisation) and just wandering through the old parts of the city.

  14. Former Partner, Now In-House

    Can anyone recommend simple and free (or inexpensive) software to record my time? We do not keep billing records in our company, but I would like to be able to tell our GC at the end of the year how many hours I worked and on what matters. Thanks.

  15. accountantly

    Update on the cattle call–

    A few of you gave me helpful advice last week when I was asking about a recruiting event that is a big cattle call of 250+ students all trying to get the few interview slots. I have an older friend who is a major client of the firm and a friend of one of the partners. He called that partner to recommend me and sent a copy of my resume. I’m obviously very excited that maybe I have gotten bumped up a bit above the crowd. In his email to me, my friend told me that he had called the partner to talk about me, that the partner is interested in meeting me at the event, and then he signed off with a joking “don’t f&$* it up. ;)”

    I’m here to ask advice on how not to f&$* it up. I am pretty good at talking to most people, but my achilles heel is old powerful men. I have no clue how to approach a conversation I might have with this guy, especially at an event like this, where there will likely be swarms of people trying to talk to this guy too. Do I sell myself? Do I ask him about himself? Help?

    • Bluejay

      Old men tend to treat me like their daughter. If they’re the type who sent their daughter to graduate school and think she’s the awesomest person alive, this is very good. If they’re the type who let her get straight Cs and paid for her bewb job, well, they’re not the type to tell someone they want to meet you at an event and give you career help, so assume the partner is the former type. Just be yourself. Keep the conversation focused on work and professional interests, which is something you have in common with the partner, rather than things you don’t have in common (yacht ownership vs. beat-up used Nissans, 40-yr marriage vs. online dating, etc).

    • elz

      Both. Since you are nervous, I suggest practicing what you want to say before the event-pick the few things about you or about him that you think are most important- why you want to work there, should you want to work there, what you could offer, what you could learn, etc. What distinguishes you from the other people at the cattle call-bring out your unique skills/or personality. Of course, make sure you introduce yourself and make that personal connection, “Hi, I’m x, I believe we know y. I’ve been wanting to meet you for some time. I’ve heard great things about your company and would love to speak with you about….” Ask about his career and interests. People like to talk about themselves and make personal connections.

      Don’t stress and be confident. You’ll be fine.

      • TBK

        This. Especially the part about asking him questions about him. When you’re trying to make a good impression, it’s easy to just talk about yourself (okay, when *I’m* trying to make a good impression I frequently fall into the trap of talking about myself) but people love talking about themselves! If he wants to know something about you, he’ll ask.

    • roses

      Great advice already. I’d also add that you should avoid sounding overly perky. When I was doing mock interviews at law school for rising 2Ls, some girls sounded like and had the expressions of cheerleaders when they were talking to me. When I asked them about it after the interview, they said that they were just trying to show interest. My advice was to show interest by making eye contact, occasional nodding, and asking insightful questions, rather than constantly smiling widely, laughing excessively, or speaking with sing-songy enthusiasm.

  16. Bunkster

    Boston Corporette Meet-up tomorrow at Sip Wine Bar near Downtown Crossing starting at 6:30 pm. If you’re interested in joining us and are not already on the mailing list, email me at bostoncorporette@gmail.com

  17. To "Career vs Marriage" from yesterday

    I just read this article about a Hvd prof who wrote a book and thought it might be a useful way to think about things…

    news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/09/best-practices-writ-large/

    This paragraph made me think of you:
    “For Christensen, a devout Mormon and dedicated father, temptation to stray from his principles comes in the form of work, which constantly vies for his attention. “Because my work is so interesting, it could easily consume 18 hours a day, seven days a week,” he says. Years ago, he made an agreement with his wife and the mother of their five children, the youngest of whom is now a junior in college: “I will never work on Saturday or Sunday, and I’m always out of here by 6 p.m.” (It helps, he admits, that he’s usually at work by 6:30 a.m.)”

    • KLG

      My dad did work Saturdays but his agreement was to never bring work home, to be home for dinner (unless there was a partners meeting or something really exceptional, not just “I had a lot of meetings today and I’m slammed”) and to not work Sundays. He was very good at compartmentalizing though so when he was home he was fully present and not at all preoccupied with work.

    • lawsuited

      My dad is a lawyer and as a child I only saw my dad on Sundays and when he drove us to school in the morning. He was great when he was at home, but I have a lot of siblings and we lived close to extended family, so there were a lot of demands on his personal time. I still feel like it’s a big treat to have a conversation alone with my dad, because I never, ever got to do that when I was younger.

  18. anon

    My husband just found out that he didn’t get a job that he very, very badly wanted and that he was very, very close to getting (final 2). He’s sad, but I’m devastated. (He’s in academia and jobs are really hard to come by.) Any words of encouragement or suggestions for how I get past my own disappointment to be supportive to him? I’m dying under my workload right now and all I want to do is hide under my desk and cry.

    • lawsuited

      I’m so sorry for the bad news. I find that one or the other person in a relationship can be freaked out, but not both at the same time, so your husband may be trying to put on a brave face (being just “sad” even though he may well be devastated) so that you can be devastated. I’m sure he realizes more than anyone what a blow this is to you, so try to be as supportive and positive as possible so he can optimisticly move on to looking for the next opportunity?

    • NOLA

      Academic jobs are so so competitive right now and sometimes these decisions (on the hirers end) are awful to make everything else is fairly equal. Just one little thing can swing it in one person’s favor or the other, or even perceived fit. So sorry you are going through this. It sounds like he did well, so he can do it again.

      • Anon academic

        Respectfully, I think the two things NOLA says kind of contradict each other. Yes, final decisions on these jobs can often be pretty random…and that means that getting to the final 2 in one search does not necessarily mean success in the future. Honestly, for lots of extremely qualified people, making it to the final round for a dream job is the best they ever do. Of course, many don’t even have that achievement. I’m sorry to be such a downer, but this is the truth.

        I second the poster below who wishes you peace. In such an awful market that is really the only thing that you can rely on always, and it comes from within yourself and between you two as a couple.

        • NOLA

          I do a lot of faculty hiring and I wasn’t saying that it’s random – just that when you get that far, it can be about something small or about fit, which is hard to define. Getting to the final 2 at the very least means that he knows how to write a good application and present himself well on paper and verbally. That means a lot.

          • Anon academic

            I absolutely agree, but stand by my comment. It’s just unimaginably rough even for the best applicants. That’s what I was trying to get at.

    • Brooklyn, Esq.

      I feel for you–this must be very distracting!

      If he got this close on this job, he will get this close (and even further!) on another one.

      • Anon academic

        Not to repeat myself, especially when I’m saying something so negative. But I think this is a risky path to go down if what the OP and her husband need is genuine, lasting calm and comfort. She can say something like this to her husband, and it’s sweet, but it might ring hollow.

    • anon hopeful professor

      I was thinking about applying for a legal writing professor job in my area – are positions teaching law school courses equally as difficult to come by? I adore teaching (I have taught before) and would love to go from litigation to teaching, and I have twice the real world experience they are looking for (they want 3 years litigation, I have 6). I guess I shouldn’t get my hopes up.

      • Newbie law prof

        It depends what you’re comparing it to. And it depends on the school. But if you want to teach legal writing, you should apply. (I said “teach legal writing” on purpose, btw. In most schools, legal writing is either taught by: (a) fellows who are being groomed to go on the job market for doctrinal positions; or (b) dedicated faculty who are unfortunately sometimes treated like second-class citizens. For schools in group (b), it’s difficult (if not impossible) to move from legal writing to doctrinal courses.)

        • anon hopeful professor

          Think bottom 1/3 of the top 100 that is in the region that I practice. I want to teach legal writing, because I have a teaching credential (high school) in English and love teaching others how to structure a written piece. The salary is comparable to what I make now if you consider the holidays/summers, and it would leave me time to serve on some non-profit boards I’ve been invited to which I can’t do as a full time litigator unless I find an 8th day of the week.

          My legal writing professor has offered to recommend me, and my law school is ranked slightly higher than this one and they have some decent regional ties. So I’ll take a crack at it!

    • a.k.

      I don’t have any suggestions for you other than it’s okay to grieve together, as long as it doesn’t linger too long. I’ve been there. My husband was #2 for his dream academic job in our dream city several years ago and it still hurts a little to think how different our lives would be if everything had worked out. I wish you lots of peace.

      • B

        Same, exc my husband was turned down at our alma mater. :( makes it easy for me to throw away alumni magazines.

    • anon

      Thanks, friends-in-the-computer. I’m grateful for the commiseration and the empathy. The academic job market is so brutal and I’m not sure that he (or that we) are cut out for it.

  19. SoCalAtty

    My gosh I’m coming on here to cry about my life a lot lately! Sorry about that…but, hive, I just got crushed again. After talking to my vet today, my horse needs to be laid up in a field for about 5 months, and when she comes back, the consensus is that I should get her fit again and sell her. Not that we think what happened is going to happen again, but all agree it is too big of a risk for me to get into competing again and have it happen again, so the idea is I should get back out what I paid for her and move on to something else, since she was supposed to be my long-term (like at least next 3-4 years) horse. This involves 6 months of lay up, then probably 5 months getting her back in shape, and lord knows how long to sell her. I am certainly losing money on this one.

    During her 6 month lay up, I will be saving $1270 a month on her keep, so the next 6 months is going to be a debt paying off extravaganza. So that’s about the only plus. My husband really likes bike riding, so I’ll get mine back out and let him have the weekends for a while. It just really stinks, because not only is this my “thing,” it is most of my social life too. Ugh.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I’m so sorry for your bad news! I’m not familiar with the horse world. If you are saving money while she is recuperating, why would it be risky for you to keep her and see if this happens again? Is it that if it happens again it might be a more expensive fix or that she will have no re-sale value? I’m sorry I can’t provide you any suggestions.

      • KC

        Also not well versed in the world of horses, but I’m sorry to hear the bad news. A large portion of my “social world” revolves around a sport, and it’s always tough when someone gets injured/can’t commit to a season for other reasons. Is there any way you can continue to see your friends by visiting them while they train (? – apologies for lack of specific terminology).

        Sending good vibes. I hope your horse has a thorough recovery.

    • L

      Oh poor pony! I have one of those and honestly it sucks. I stopped competing for a variety of reasons including her health issues and do regret it. Once I have the money, I plan on a new fun show pony.

      While she’s down, can you ride other people’s horses? Also, you could take some of your savings and do a half lease or maybe hook up with a trainer who will let you ride a variety of their clients/for sale horses. I think being able to ride a variety is a skill that helps you in competitions and whips you into shape. Riding four different horses in a month is very different from riding just your horse.

      If it helps develop your retraining plan now! Use this time to go to clinics, clean your tack, etc. Nothing says you can’t be out at the barn if you’re not riding (though some days it is bittersweet). I like to go during crappy east coast weather because it isn’t like i could ride anyways, but I’m not sure that translates to SoCal.

      If you want horse sympathy, I’m always happy to talk offline!

      • CountC

        +1

        That stinks! I would still try to get out and groom her somewhat regularly if you can. It can definitely be therapeutic. I also enjoy supporting my barnmates at competitions and just being at the barn generally, so try to take some time to keep active in that even though it may seem painful at first. I would miss the social interaction, as well as the riding. If you want to try to find a horse to exercise or something like that in the meantime, The Chronicle of the Horse bulletin boards are often a good resource.

        I too am happy to horse sympathize offline.

        And if you can find a way to make money, rather than lose it, as an amateur in horses, please share your secret ;) (says the woman who spent the morning at the barn writing checks to the chiro, farrier, BO, etc.)

    • MJ

      Is there any way you can do a half-lease or ride on behalf of your trainer just to work out her horses? My best friend was “horseless” after she had to sell her horse when she lost her job, and granted, she’s an amazing three-day-eventer, but she worked out a thing where she was helping her barn (and thus got to ride for free). Alas, no cross country on someone else’s horse, but jumping and dressage were fine. Also, she volunteered at a horse therapy for wounded vets program and totally loved it. You don’t need to leave the barn and all your besties just because your horse is hurt. I am sorry that this might mean the beginning of the end of a horse relationship for you though. My best friend was devastated when she had to sell her horse. (But she intelligently put an earn-out clause in and the horse has been winning all kinds of competititions so she still gets paid! Cool, huh?!?!). Sending healing vibes your horse’s way.

      • SoCalAtty

        Blonde Lawyer/KC – It is a little risky to keep her and see if it happens again, because if it does happen again I risk going through another 12 month lay-up, retrain cycle and I just don’t want to do that. I think I will plan on still going up to the barn while friends are doing their training and at least hanging out – we do a Sunday brunch thing with parents/significant others while they watch us try not to die on the harder weekend lessons, so I can at least see everyone.

        L/Count C/MJ – I’m on the Chronicle boards too, but I just hate to ride anywhere else than with the really awesome trainer I have. I am going to see if there will be any hack/exercise ride opportunities. There would be for sure if I wasn’t working at the moment, because that is always needed when the kids are in school, but not so much on weekends. There are a few horses floating around where I know their kids are going to be riding less, so I might be able to jump in on that. The year I was unemployed and exercising my horse plus 1-2 more 4 days a week was probably the fastest riding skill progression I’ve ever had! That was great.

        I haven’t figured out how to make money, but in my head my theory is that board and training are my fixed cost and the idea was that from here on out the buy/sell number would at least be a wash, if not have this horse sell for a bit more than what I bought her for.

        I sure broke the “we don’t fall in love with our horses” rule on this one! But I’m not willing to risk losing out on either more money or more show time on the chance this happens again. Not that a horse that has been perfectly sound for 10 years won’t randomly come out of its turn out 3-legged one day, but still. Also, she might never have the problem again. But who knows?

        MJ – I’ve never heard of that! What a good idea! I don’t think that would go over well in hunters, but it’s worth floating the idea anyway.

        • CountC

          Oh yeah, there is for sure no “sure” thing in horses! We are a horses for life family (37 year old pony, 19 year old and 10 year old at the moment), so I have always known I will lose money on them. But as you said, we fall in love with our horses!

          And I also have never heard of an earn-out clause in the hunters. I don’t know how well it would work because the only place you can really win money is in the derbies and classics, and even that rarely covers all your show expenses.

          SoCalAtty – fingers crossed a fun sale horse or other ride will come along for you to enjoy while yours is laid-up. I am curious about your horse’s condition – I can’t figure it out just based on your description of turnout as the treatment, but I understand if you don’t want to share.

          • SoCalAtty

            CountC – it is a little bit of a puzzle. She was at my barn for 4 months before my purchase, and sound as heck. X-rays clean, full PPE – passed with flying colors.

            Then, in about March/April, a few things happened. She’s 5, and she came into season big time. I mean full out h u s s y behavior, kicking the stall, all of it – but was still a doll to ride. Then, her front feet went sore. We put her on depo after the heat was over to prevent or at least reduce her awful cycle issues. We put her on light work, had the chiro out, didn’t get better. Finally we sent her for a bone scan + MRI, and the bone scan did show some uptake in the navicular bone, but the MRI showed soft tissue inflammation. So not true navicular, but navicular-like lameness. So we did tildren, i-rap, shockwave (yay insurance!) and stayed off of her for about 9 weeks. Changed her shoes from the regular to a bar shoe with pads. Not sure if that was the right way to go. 3 weeks ago we started back walking u/s, then trotting around the arena 3x each way. Better, but not great. Vet came out again and she looks pretty good jogging and on the lunge, but as soon as you put someone on her she looks terrible. Blocking her heels makes her like 90% sound. So it’s the feet…hence the soft grass field lay-up.

            We’re all kind of confused as to how it happened, too – she doesn’t go on trail, doesn’t get jumped big yet, and was only doing 2’6″+ 1x a week with the trainer and jumping lower than that with me. We don’t think it was just her whaling on the wall, so who knows? But like most injuries, especially soft tissue, time off is the best bet I think. Her lay-up will be where my old man is, my gelding that I retired when he wasn’t really sound for jumping anymore. I’m kind of a horse for life person – if I’m not sure they’ll go to a successful home that will take care of them, I retire them myself. Anyway that is about 10 miles down the road from a pretty well-known, prestigious equine hospital, with a big lameness expert in residence, so maybe I’ll get a second opinion while she’s there.

          • CountC

            SoCal – thanks for sharing. Lameness in horses can be so frustrating! We have two in my barn who are trying to figure out what is going on – they are both exhibiting neurological issues in the hind end but once did not come up with EPM and the other is awaiting test results. I sure wish they could talk!!

            Mine had an awful reaction to a tripled up vaccine last year, but before we figured that out the vet was convinced it was laminitis. So we iced, and iced and iced and I was thinking my horse was done at age 9! He stumbled out of the stall one day and could barely walk and hadn’t eaten (this horse eats medicine like it’s a treat), it was heartbreaking.

            I will keep my fingers crossed for you and if you want to commiserate off-line you can reach me at countchoculacorp at gmail dot com.

  20. No Problem

    Question for the ladies out there who are runners: what do you wear to run outdoors when it’s cold out?

    I’m trying to get in the habit of running more often and longer distances, which will require me to run long-ish distances outside this winter (in the 5k-10k range, possibly up to 10 mi but probably not). Every time I’ve tried running outdoors in the cold in the past, (a) my feet are freezing because the air blows right through my shoes, (b) my nose runs constantly beginning about 5 minutes into the run, which is really uncomfortable and annoying, (c) the baselayer I’m wearing (long pants and long sleeves) isn’t really windproof so while I’m not exactly cold (because it’s 45 degrees out and I’m exercising), this would not be ideal if it were colder out (let’s say below 30 degrees), and (d) breathing that much cold air into my lungs is really uncomfortable and even borderline painful.

    So I guess my questions are:
    1) Do they make socks that are windproof (never owned “technical” socks, just normal cotton ones)?

    2) How do you handle the runny nose? Do you carry Kleenex in a pocket somewhere (my winter running clothes have no pockets) or just wipe on your sleeve?

    3) Are you supposed to wear clothes over the base layer? Is the base layer supposed to be windproof, or just more windproof than a normal pair of cotton exercise pants/shirt?

    4) How do you deal with breathing that much cold air? Do you just get better at it over time? Or am I being a wimp?

    I think I’m good for headgear (have a decent fleece headband) and I know I’ll need to buy gloves or mittens too, but I would like to start acquiring other cold weather gear soon so that I can spread out the hefty price tag over several months.

    • Brooklyn, Esq.

      Ooh, I want to know this too! Working on the Couch to 5K (as recommended by the wonderful people here) and I want to continue into the winter.

    • TBK

      1) I wear the same socks I wear year round (and this includes some mornings when it’s in the teens outside). If the rest of me is warm enough, my feet are fine.

      2) Don’t really have this problem. Sniffing usually does the trick, but I have carried a tissue or two in a pocket (most of my running stuff has random little pockets everywhere).

      3) Yes, very much so. The base layer is the base layer because other things go on top of it. Are you just running in cold weather with a flimsy long sleeve T? No wonder you’re cold. I have base layers of various degrees of warmth from regular warm-weather short-sleeve tops to UnderArmour mock-turtle crazy warm. Then I put on a second layer that’s often like a very thin fleece (but not fleece — UnderArmour makes these, not sure what they’re called) that has sleeves that pull over my hands. If it’s really cold I put lightweight fleece over that. For legs, I have running tights in various degrees of thickness (plain cotton leggings, warmer thin fleece-ish things, and even warmer thin fleece-ish things — it’s the fabric Under Armour calls “cold gear”).

      4. It gets better.

      • No Problem

        I’m not in a t-shirt…I have Nike baselayer pants and long sleeved shirt. I’m not sure if the pants are what people call running tights (I don’t know what those are like). They are both lightly fleeced on the inside and definitely synthetic material. They’re supposed to be for cold weather. I just don’t know if I’m supposed to be wearing another pair of pants on top of them (and another shirt), because while that seems like a lot of clothing, clearly what I’m wearing is not going to cut it when it’s below freezing.

        Are you wearing normal cotton socks or other socks?

    • LLBMBA

      I’m a Canadian who once started training in February for a half marathon. So I know running in the cold.

      1) start with technical socks: smart wool is really good. They make thinner and thicker pairs – buy thicker ones. They’re not cheap ($20/$25 maybe?) but I’ve had mine for years and they last (I don’t put them in the dryer). They’re also the coziest socks I own, so I want to wear them always.

      2) some gloves you can buy for running have fleece on the sides that you can use to mop up a drippy nose (some ski gloves have this too). Just throw them in the wash after. I also stick tissues in my pockets. I prefer gloves to mittens, as even when it’s cold, you warm up pretty fast and gloves are a bit more nimble for phone, mittens, etc.

      3) I have a winter running jacket from Lululemon that’s not very thick, but again, once the initial warm up is over, you warm up pretty fast. I usually wear a thicker base (wicking) layer + winter running jacket. And a hat. They sell winter running tights too, which can be fleecy in the inside and more wind proof on the outside. Otherwise I wore long johns under long yoga pants, which worked.

      4) breathing in the cold air just gets easier. My breathing is always tough for the first 10 minutes or so, and then it gets better. I also take a bit longer to warm up in the cold (which makes sense, I suppose!).

      Hope this helps! I found that running in the cold is often far more comfortable than in the heat!

    • Just me...

      Don’t know if they are wind-proof, but during the winter, I wear running socks that are a blend of wool and cool-max. Available at running stores – they are kind of spendy ($15/pair) but SO worth it! They are much warmer than cotton or regular technical socks, and they shed water pretty well when running through puddles.

      Carry kleenex – yes, or wipe on sleeve, or learn to “turn and blow” (not very lady like, I know!)

      Thin gloves are good if it’s not TOO cold (ie over 40). The magic gloves from the dollar store are great, if like me, you are prone to dropping them when you get too hot half way into the run. My hands are always hot when I run, but never otherwise!

      The best tip I’ve heard is to dress for weather 10 degrees warmer than what you are running in (since you warm up when you run).

    • KateL

      1. Smartwool socks should help

      2. Like another poster, I’m a fan of cheap Target gloves and use my gloves or sleeve. Multiple pairs means I wear them and toss in the wash after each run.

      3. Base layer should be wicking and outermost layer wind-proof.

      4. You get used to it.

      Don’t over acquire… multiple inexpensive layers will serve you much better than a very expensive cold weather only layer. I’d estimate that my standard outfit down to freezing mark is thin tights/capris, tank top with a quarter zip top layered over, gloves and headband.

      • No Problem

        Thanks everyone (including AnonInfinity below)! I guess my first acquisitions will be better socks, gloves, and a jacket/vest/layer with pockets so I can carry Kleenex and not have to learn the “turn and blow.” Maybe all this will help me become someone who can tolerate spending time outside in the cold :)

        • zora

          they make little wrist band things with pockets that you could carry your kleenex in if you dont want to buy all new clothes. I use them for travel wallets, but they are easy, and would go over whatever you are wearing. I got mine at REI.

        • ahh510

          Getting good at snot rockets really is a worthwhile skill. My nose runs like a faucet in any weather below 50, so I’ve had a lot of experience dealing with snot while running. I’m not completely shameless about snot rockets – I don’t do it if there are other people around (well . . . maybe if it’s dark . . . ) and never, ever on the sidewalk. In between snot rocket opportunities, I go with sleeve or glove. Also, if I’m anticipating a particularly snotty run, I carry a bandana. Big advantage over kleenex is they don’t disintegrate, so you can just carry it in your hand, tuck it in your waistband if you don’t have pockets, etc.

          I agree with others on adding a layer – if you’re cold, put on more clothes. I do think a vest can be really versatile, but it doesn’t get super-cold where I live.

        • SoCalAtty

          Backpacker trick for the runny nose thing…use a bandanna! Gross, I know, but less gross than wadded tissue all over everywhere :) Then you can just throw it in the wash.

    • Liana

      1. I don’t usually get cold feet, so I just wear my regular running socks. You could always try SmartWool or similar if your feet are really cold. The other thing is shoes — some are really uber breathable, which isn’t ideal in wintertime, but is great for summer.

      2. If you wear layers, there’s almost always pockets for tissues. Even inside my running shorts (which I usually layer over some variant of leg covering depending on how cold it is).

      3. Layers are your friend! It takes a little practice to figure out just what layers will work best for you at which temperatures, (e.g., what I wear for <20F is different than what I wear for 20F – 35F, etc.). I really love this jacket from Brooks http://tinyurl.com/BrooksUtopia for cold weather running, but mine has a hood (with a slit in the hood for a ponytail! kind of dorky but also awesome).

      4. For <20F, I really like to have something covering my nose and mouth, but get way too warm if the top of my head is covered, so I use a neck warmer (something like this http://tinyurl.com/neckgaiter ). But maybe I'm just a wimp. Haven't gotten over it, don't think I will. But with the proper gear, it doesn't stop me.

    • sutemi

      I bike in all weather, not as intense as running though. I wear a scarf or baklava over my face because breathing cold air makes me cough and hack. Once I get warmed up I can pull it away from my face some but I need to humidify the air as well as warm it.
      More layers is better than a single thick layer. I will wear loose windproof pants over my tights in really cold weather, I don’t find that most tights are wind resistant enough for deep cold.
      Depending on where you run, yaktraks over your shoes are helpful for traction.

      • AnonInfinity

        You bike in all weather?! You are my hero. I put mine away once the temps get in the 50s. (I’m a winter weenie)

        • sutemi

          It isn’t as serious as it sounds, most of the rides are 1-3 miles long to get to work/store/stuff and back. So long as it is not actively snowing hard and the streets are plowed I can bike around. I’d rather bike in 15 degrees and clear than 33 and raining.

    • Frou Frou

      I run all weather now (I cut it off at 17 degrees and/or fresh ice on the pavement), and I remember wondering the same thing in the early days. I was really happy to discover that I need a lot less than I thought. I wear lightweight gloves and tie a bandana around my ears to keep them warm (my running partner wears a hat, but I tend to get hot and that’s too much for me. She’s usually on the cold side). If it is very cold, I will wear a Patagonia base layer and a jacket, but I usually end up taking off the windbreaker. I also wear long tights that are a thicker than yoga pants and have some fuzz/warmth stuff. For feet, I wear regular thin wool socks. I have a long sleeved running shirt and I will wear it over a sleeveless running shirt if it’s about 45 or less. If it’s sub 20, then I break out the Patagonia base layer. You really don’t need a lot of special gear, but I do recommend getting shirt that wicks away sweat, especially for winter. In the summer, I don’t mind running in a sweaty, wet shirt, but it’s downright awful to do so in the winter.

      I don’t carry tissue. I just blow farmers as I’m running along. Actually, I kind of get a kick out of being gross like that, and I love having an excuse to do it! :)

    • Monte

      I get pretty wimpy, so I tend to only run down to 0 or 5 degrees (Fahrenheit). More serious runners (or Canadians) run in colder weather. But you need to become acclimated to the temperatures, and then determine whether you run hot or cold and what you are sensitive to. And then there is wiggle room where everyone has something different that irks them. My feet are rarely cold, but I get a cold butt. Really cold. It’s weird, so I like to wear a longer shirt. YMMV.

      As a baseline, because I am always cold, I start wearing capris below 50 degrees and tights below 40 degrees. As for shirts, leeve length will depend on wind — I have skinny arms and they get cold pretty easily. Typically, I start wearing windproof stuff if wind is steady over 15 mph or gusting pretty high. I typically wear that over another layer if I am really concerned about wind + cold (which is a significant issue here in the midwest).

      As for your questions:
      1. I would research REI as well as running stores. This isn’t something I have thought about (I wear the same socks all year long, but higher in the winter to tuck into my tights), but someone probably has the same issue.

      2. I use gloves that you buy at CVS for gardening. I cannot stand cold hands. I often wipe my nose with them when my nose runs. Because the gloves are like $2, I can buy several pairs and toss them in the wash, so I always have a fresh pair. I sometimes carry tissue, but not always.

      3. If you aren’t warm enough in the base layer, wear more! Runners wear all sorts of gear. Experiment and figure out what works for you. I promise there will be runners out in singlets when you have on a fleece, and others out in sweatpants when it is so warm you are just in a sports bra. People are different, and a lot of us are weird.

      4. The cold air thing differs from person to person. Work on acclimating, but keep in mind that your body may deal with cold air differently. Not unheard of.

    • a lawyer

      Longtime (30 plus years) runner. I currently live in the Deep South, where there are really only a few very cold days, but the humidity makes it worse. Given that you are already freezing, I am assuming you live somewhere it will get very, very cold this winter.

      However, I ran during college and law school (Indiana and Boston) where it got amazingly cold and lots of snow.
      1) You need technical socks. I like Balega. For really cold weather, I strongly recommend some with wool (merino). Smartwool and Balega as well as others make these. If it gets so cold your feet are still cold, get some thin polypropylene or silk liner socks to wear underneath.

      2) runny nose is always a problem. my lastest solution is a men’s thin cotton handkerchief (walmart) that I stuff in a jacket pocket or in my pants waistband. Advantage over kleenex is they do not shred when wet and you can handle with gloves on.

      3) base layer, depending on how cold it is, can be lightweight sports top, and then either a jacket on top, or a heavier top (hind arctic drylete is great) or heavier top AND a jacket. Jacket should be a running jacket with a vent in back at least and pockets.

      4) You will get used to breathing cold air. In extremely cold weather, I sometimes use a balaclava for the first mile and then roll it up on top of my head like a beanie type hat.

      5) get gloves and mittens AND silk liner gloves. The double layer with the lightweight silk liners makes all the difference. Mittens are much warmer than gloves. Or try “glittens” which have a mitten type flap over gloved fingers; you can roll the flap back and have use of fingers.

      All this would do me down to maybe 8 degrees. Below that, I usually just hoped for warmer weather.

      Check out runnersworld website for articles on cold weather running.
      Roadrunnersports, nationalrunningstore and dicks all usually have good deals.

    • korakel

      I’m really late to the party, but:
      1. you can find shoes with water/wind shield (like Nike zoom or Saucony peregrine), which help a lot.
      2. I usually take a tissue for those first 5 minutes, and find that after blowing my nose a couple of times, the runny nose stops. And if my tissue is full, I use my sleeve/shirt. I have to wash it anyway :)
      3. depending on wind and temps, I use a long-sleeve base layer, with short sleeve top. I find that when I get going, I get too hot pretty soon and I don’t like taking off layers (hate running with a shirt/jacket tied around my waist). Pulling up my sleeves usually gives enough cooling. And I’m rather a little cold than too hot.
      Plus: don’t wear cotton when it’s cold: it isn’t wicking enough and will make you more cold. Find some ‘technical’ running gear, like windproof tights (winter tights are slightly thicker and more wind&waterproof)
      4. I use a Buff, that doubles as a shawl and I can breath through during the first minutes. Again, I find that after a few minutes, I can start to breath normally.

      What may help, is to do a short warming up indoors with all your layers on. You’ll find out soon enough which layer(s) you can do without. And don’t forget a thin beanie and some thin gloves (you can usually find package deal with running gloves and hat, e.g. at Amazon). I find that I get a headache when I go running in the cold (talking around/below zero celcius) without a beanie

  21. Anon

    I am wearing a dress today and showing more leg than usual. The dress is a professional length (right above the knee), but I wear pants probably 75% of the time.

    I work in a mostly male office, and today I had a one-on-one meeting with my male supervisor (who is 10 years older) to discuss a project we are working on together. As we wrapped up our meeting, he said “by the way, you look nice today”

    This bothers me because I think (a) he is my supervisor and I want him focused on my work product, not my clothing/apperance, (b) I don’t think he would say that to my male peers and (c) I don’t think he would make a comment like that in front of people. Am I being overly sensitive? This comment wouldn’t bother me coming from a woman or a male peer – it just feels unprofessional coming from a male supervisor.

    • Godzilla

      I work in a mostly male industry and I sometimes get compliments on colors and patterns. It’s no big deal. Sometimes I hear my male coworkers discussing each other’s ties and shirt colors when I stomp through the office. Is it possible you’re a bit insecure about the length of your dress and adding more to an innocent comment? Maybe the color just looks awesome on you. Wait and observe your supervisor’s behavior towards you and your wardrobe.

      OMG someone in the other cubicle island just burst out laughing pure tears of everlasting joy for a whole minute. I’m really curious as to what’s on his computer screen.

      • LadyEnginerd

        Yes, I would imagine the wholesale destruction industry would be male-dominated, and that discussion of attire would be commonplace. I’d imagine the Hulk needs a lot of feedback to help him best flatter his complexion.

        From my male dominated industry, the guys comment on each other’s wardrobe when they’re looking particularly sharp. It would be weird if they didn’t mention it when it’s clear I made an effort.

        • KC

          Oh gosh. I nearly died reading this. Thank you for brightening my afternoon!

          Now excuse me while I mop up my desk…

          • e_pontellier

            “wholesale destruction industry” sounded so legit that I didn’t understand it at first. Now I get it and I’m dying.

            (and yes, I’m blonde. Don’t hate.)

      • Jules

        Agreed. If it happens a lot and it starts to be accompanied by leers and other weirdness, then you should be worried; if not, don’t worry about it, it was just a compliment.

        I work mostly with men, mostly blue collar men, and I have gotten used to comments on my appearance. Two weeks ago I went to a big client’s picnic/event — on a very hot day in a black linen sheath and super-pointy red slingbacks — and heard lots of you-look-nice-todays and even a couple of hey-Jules-have-you-lost-weight remarks. All okay in the context. However, one staff guy apparently had too much too drink and told me I was “smokin’ hot.” Not okay. (However, I am 52 and could stand to lose 20 pounds and definitely don’t hear that very often; I have to admit to silently enjoying it just the tiniest bit . . .)

    • Research, Not Law

      Unless he said it while pinching your tush or looking down your shirt, I think you’re being overly-sensitive.

      I work with a lot of men, and I find that (and they freely admit that) those types of comments are pavlovian responses conditioned by their wives. We could discuss whether their wives are appropriate rolemodels for how they interact with their female coworkers, but to the point of your OP, I don’t think he was trying to be inappropriate. I actually had my male supervisor once insist that I TELL HIS WIFE that he had noticed I had gotten a haircut. Her response: “oh good, I’ve been training him.” Awkward.

    • TO lawyer

      I work closely with a lot of older, male lawyers and they compliment my appearance and outfits quite often. I don’t think it’s a bad thing – it doesn’t feel unprofessional but then again, the men in my office talk about clothing and also compliment each other’s outfits quite often.

    • Herbie

      One of the highlights of my law firm career was when my [male] supervising partner told me that I looked “very Audrey Hepburn” that day. Still not sure what he even meant, but I’ll take what I can get.

      From all you’ve said, it sounds like things are on the up and up here.

    • eek

      You’re probably ok so long as it’s not the manageing partner giveing you 20% towards your clotheing.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      If you normally wear pants and you were in a dress he probably perceived that something was different, noticed you liked extra nice, and decided to comment on it. I doubt it was meant in a skeevy way. A very socially awkward colleague of mine once complimented my dress, blushed, and ran away. That was a bit odd. Generally though, a “you look nice” is fine.

      • KC

        If you normally wear pants and you were in a dress he probably perceived that something was different, noticed you liked extra nice, and decided to comment on it. I doubt it was meant in a skeevy way. A very socially awkward colleague of mine once complimented my dress, blushed, and ran away. That was a bit odd. Generally though, a “you look nice” is fine.

  22. AnonInfinity

    1. Probably, but one solution is smart wool. Another is a shoe cover. They make these for cyclists, and they are just little windproof bits of fabric you clip onto your toes.

    2. I wipe on my sleeve or glove. My husband blows snot rockets, but that’s never worked for me. Some people take Kleenex in a pocket, but it gets soggy and covered very quickly.

    3. Layer to your heart’s content. I have lots of configurations for different temps. Long sleeve wicking only; long sleeve+short sleeve; long sleeve wicking + windproof top layer; long sleeve + fleece middle + windproof top. You’ll have to experiment quite a bit to get this right, but eventually you’ll find what works for you. There are tons of options — vests in all fabrics, windproof top layers vs. non windproof but very warm top layers, on and on and on. My rule always is wicking layer next to my skin, then I add on top of that. For example, don’t put the windproof thing next to your skin beacuse that will cause crazy chaffing.

    4. I have just gotten used to it. If it gets really bad, you can buy a balaclava (I think this is the right term), which will help warm the air before it goes into your lungs. But those are seriously warm, and you do not want this for anything above freezing. My first winter running, I felt like my lungs would explode. After I got a good base under me, it has gotten a lot better, and I actually enjoy the cold, crisp air.

    The big takeaway is that you unfortunately have to try a lot of different things before you’re going to find the right thing. It can be helpful to go to outlets or talk to other runners in your climate to get stuff on sale and find out what works for others. Winter gear is pretty expensive, so I try to ask for it as gifts (in case it doesn’t work) or only buy on sale until I figure out if I like a certain style and fabric.

    For gloves, I ran for a couple of winters (in the South, gets down barely below freezing for a couple of weeks) with just those really cheap $1 gloves you get at Target. I would layer 2-3 pair on the coldest days. I finally got some nice running gloves, and I really like them, but the cheap ones really did work just fine. The expensive ones just mean that I don’t have to wear as many layers of gloves on the coldest days.

    Also, if you’re running on the road in the mornings, please remember your blinky light and other reflective gear! Safety first!!

  23. Eleanor

    I don’t know, my boss is about ten years older than I am, and tells various women in the office, including me, that we look nice from time to time. Did he say it in a lascivious way? I don’t think one compliment, without anything else, is a sign of a problem.

  24. Clueless Grownup

    Is there something distinctive about a field hockey goalie jersey?

    SO’s daughter has requested one — in a hot pink with her name and number on it for her upcoming birthday. Obviously it would have to be customized, but we (I) can’t even find anything as particular as a field hockey goalie jersey or even a hot pink jersey (adult sized, not kid, she’s taller than I am!). Google fail.

    So, I turn to you! Any thoughts/suggestions/search terms would be most welcome.

    Thanks!

    • Anon

      A field hockey goalie’s jersey has to be giant to fit over all the pads she wears, so a regular jersey probably won’t fit the bill. What about this one: http://www.longstreth.com/Yale-Custom-Mesh-Goalie-Jersey/productinfo/Y0501A/ (It looks like maybe the pink is not yet available, but I didn’t poke around much to see if there are other styles in pink.) Also, you might do some searching for stores that carry field hockey sticks (brands: Grays, Gryphon, STX, etc.).

      • Clueless Grownup

        Thanks! Awesome — that makes sense re: fit and gives me a good starting point if the pink one isn’t available yet.

        I did find some “goalkeeper” jerseys that were lightly padded, but those seemed to be for soccer, which I assume requires much less padding.

    • Anya

      You also might want to try stores that cater specifically to women’s sports – I purchased a lot of gear from Sports Her Way back in my lacrosse days. I’d recommend calling customer service and explaining what you’re looking for – they may be able to point you in the right direction or recommend a particular brand, etc.

    • Bluejay

      A search for “goalie” on titlenine dot com resulted in “Did you mean girlie?”. Fail, TitleNine. Fail.

  25. Constance Justice

    Looking for a little c*p*r*tt* encouragement. The firm I work at is kind of dreadful. I get paid fairly and my schedule is really flexible, so I’ve been working from home for the last few weeks to avoid it. However, I lose a little self respect every day I stay . I’m considering going out on my own. Well, more than considering, I’ve started the process. I really can’t stand the thought of working for another law firm. I’m in a niche field though, and I’m having trouble cutting the cord. Has anyone been through this?

    • eek

      Not been in your shoes, but having been unemployed, I’d advise having 6 months of savings just for bills. A bigger cushion would be better in this economy. I don’t know what industry you’re in but are there any licenses or insurance your employer picks up? Finally, I’d make sure whatever work you’re doing doesn’t conflict with your current employer – is there any chance you can do a soft start and build up your client base? Good luck, it sucks to be completely demoralized in your job but not being able to make ends meet/get hired is a different kind of crappiness. I think if you feel this strongly go for it – I always admire self-employed/small business owners. It’s a lot of work.

  26. In the Pink

    Hoping all our hive-e t t e s in Baton Rouge were safe and sound and not trampled with the bomb scare at LSU. I’m sure our NOLA is ok as it’s a far piece from NO, LA.

    Just as we saw at U of Tx over the weekend, evacuating large numbers of people isn’t easy. All our hive-e t t e s in NY and VA are good reminders of this.

    Take care, all. It’s a rough time out there…all around the world.

    • Barrister in the Bayou

      I did alright because I don’t work close to campus, but some of my friends were stuck in traffic for hours in a downpour. I think they caught the person that did it and it appears that the person was not a student.

      • In the Pink

        Isn’t it always that way…so glad you are aok . Makes one wish for an ever-full tank of gas in one’s car, doesn’t it? When it rains…on top of that? Thanks for the good news update, Bayou Barrister!

  27. KinCA

    So my roommate’s very cute, very little dog with very sharp nails snagged my thin sweater this afternoon and made a tiny hole in the sleeve. It’s not visible, as I usually roll my sleeves up, so the roll covers it, but any ideas on how to keep the hole from getting bigger?

    I was considering taking it to a tailor/alterations place and having them sew it closed. Any other ideas?

    • CountC

      I have not tried this, so take this advice with that in mind – maybe dot a tiny, tiny bit of super glue/fabric glue on the inside of the hole to hold it shut?

      • oil in houston

        careful with the glue on a thin fabric, I did this once (by accident) on a silk jersey, and the glue ‘ate’ the fabric and made a big hole ….

    • Bluejay

      Tailors can usually fix sweater holes and holes in other knits by manipulating the threads to close it up. Don’t try it yourself but I’ve had them do it in front of me in like 3 seconds and it’s amazing.

    • ss

      A dab of clear nail polish usually does a pretty good job of sealing the loose threads.

    • L from Oz

      I had the same thought! Why is it so hard to find skirts one can cycle in? (My students tend to wear mini-skirts, but I can’t/won’t.)

  29. Muddy Buddy

    You guise! First trial next week, and I might die of nerves.

    Related — Has anyone ever witnessed a lawyer throwing up in court?

    • SoCalAtty

      I ran out of court to throw up once. I was at a motion hearing – we were defense counsel and it was something with at least 10 defendants and we had been in meditations and depositions leading up to trial and passing some flu back and forth among counsel for weeks. When it was our turn on the docket, we all started to come forward and the first thing the judge said was “counselors, all of you take 4 steps back. I know you’re all sick.”

      When it was my turn to be heard, I said about three words and turned a little green. I said, “you honor, may I have a moment?” and without waiting for a response, ran into the hallway and threw up. After about 3 minutes the bailiff came out and told me not to worry about it and to go home, another attorney would give notice and the court was granting my motion. I barely remember any of it because I was really sick, but no one in my firm (of 15 lawyers…really? I was a dumb 2nd year) would cover me and so I dragged myself out there anyway. They also gave me a lot of c r ap for not going back to the office after court!

      Anyway – you’ll be fine. Go in really organized with a clear plan of where you’re going, and you’ll be great!

      • Muddy Buddy

        OH MY!!

        At least you won and got a good story out of it. I have been feeling mostly just excited, making outlines and responding to motions and whatnot. Then today the partner started talking to me about handling objections, and I’m like, “Ohhhhhh yeah. I am doing this soon. Someone might interrupt me. It probably won’t be like on TV……” and had a freak out attack. Hopefully I will steer clear of the stomach flu.

    • DC Jenny

      I am in the midst of my first trial right now. I also thought I was going to throw up, but I didn’t, although my hands shook like crazy. It will be ok! You don’t have to be perfect, just get the job done. Have someone do objections in your practice sessions, so you can practice your counterarguments.

    • anon

      Seriously – you will be awesome. I was a litigator for many years and I have to say for the first few of them I did regularly make some pre-court trips to the ladies’ room. Ever since I was about 5 years old nerves/excitement = barfing (or wanting to).

      Even with that I LOVED trials and you will, too. You will totally NOT throw up in court – I guarantee. Once your case is called you’ll be amazing.

      The only time I almost did I was pregnant and nobody knew yet. Mucho macho opposing counsel opined that he “had the same thing last week” and I smiled wanly, but it did give me a good laugh.

      Please report back with how fabulous you were? The rest of us will be thrilled for you. I will send you good vibes from the wilderness all weekend. That judge will love you!

    • Jordan

      During my first trial, the jury was walking back into the court room with their decision. The deliberation was probably only 2-3 hours. As they walked in, I unbuttoned my suit jacket so that if we lost I could puke into the inside of my jacket discretely. I held it together though. However, I did completely pit out through my suit jacket by 10:00 am each day of the trial.

    • lawsuited

      My first trial was 2 months after I started as an articling student. I was so nervous that I didn’t eat the morning of as a precaution, but it was totally fine once I got started.

  31. Merabella

    I’m fitting into a dress that was super tight a few months ago. I’m psyched. I just had to share.

  32. Mousekeeper

    The model looks as though she is REALLY unhappy about having to model those clothes. The entire look is rather frumpy for someone her age. Plus, the blouse does nothing for the look, with those stupid pleats at the bottom. It would be less frumpy with a blouse or tee that was tucked in.

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