Thursday’s Workwear Report: Super High-Waisted Pleated Wide-Leg Pant

341 Comments

1. Ugh I’m sort of in a pickle at work. My employer is VERY stingy with work travel and reject most requests so what my boss requests I do is pad the request by including both events we’re not interested in and the important events, what usually happens is we’ll get approval for 1 or 2 important events and the rest is all rejected. Well for some reason the powers that be approved the whole request? Which is great since I get to go to a lot of really important conferences but it also means I’m taking an unexpected trip to Duluth in February. There’s no getting out of that right? I’m just going to have to bite the bullet and go on a snowy trip, right? My boss has no idea why or how all this travel was okayed.

   1. Cancelled b/c of weather? Client availability? COVID test is +?

   2. If you do end up going (life is long and things happen!) I’d just lean into it. Get cozy in your hotel, take books, read by a fire.

   3. Stay at The Inn on Lake Superior, sit by the fire in the lobby, watch the snow and ice whip across the lake right outside the window. They have s’more roasting and a hot tub!

   4. No, just say things changed and you have a conflict.

      1. +1 just because it’s approved doesn’t mean you necessarily have to go. However, if you don’t go for what they approved, they may be even stingier the following year because you didn’t “take” what you were “given”. If it was me I would probably just bite the bullet and go.

   5. “Client has changed location of February meeting to Palm Springs” for the win?

   6. You are seriously cancelling a chance at education because you don’t want to deal with snow?

      See if a colleague would be interested, put the money to a different educational event or go. i wouldn’t claim a positive COVID test or other last-minute cancellation lie–that’s basically like stealing the company’s money.

      Over snow.

      1. +1

      2. I’m assuming the company wouldn’t be out any money if she doesn’t book travel or register for the conference, so it’s not really “stealing.”

         But I agree it’s silly to not go to a worthwhile conference over snow.

      3. It’s not a worthwhile conference though, it was pure filler that was intended to be turned down so I could get approval for other things. No colleagues can go in
         my place because I’m the SME so my colleagues would just be confused. The risk of a snowstorm and cancelled/delayed flights for an event that wouldn’t provide me value isn’t ideal.

         1. Ok that’s pretty different than what you said in your OP, which made it sound like it was just about not wanting to go to Duluth in February. If it’s not a worthwhile conference, don’t go.

            1. FWIW, I thought your original post was clear. But I think you just bite the bullet and take the trip.

            2. Thank Sybil, I went back to try and find out where I was unclear.

            3. @Snowy,

               “Which is great since I get to go to a lot of really important conferences but it also means I’m taking an unexpected trip to Duluth in February. There’s no getting out of that right? I’m just going to have to bite the bullet and go on a snowy trip, right?”

               From this sentence, it wasn’t clear to me that the Duluth conference was *both* unimportant and not your ideal weather situation. I can read it both ways – wow, approved for important conferences including Duluth, but that wasn’t my highest priority bc of snow! – or – wow, approved for ALL the conferences, but this one strikes out on both importance and location.

            4. I mean, your username is “snowy conference” which makes it sound like the problem is weather.

         2. ok this is a different main reason for not wanting to go.

            If the request was approved, it’s just budget, right? Not that corporate already booked you all the travel and registration? If you’re simply not acting on the approval to use budget for one out of several conferences and your boss therefore comes in a bit under budget, who would even notice or care?

            1. Agreed. Maybe there are internal politics that I’m missing, but it seems like it would be no big deal to not book this trip. Also if you do end up booking and it gets cancelled due to snow, it’s also not a problem, right? No use in being anxious about a trip being cancelled if you kind of want the cancellation to happen.

         3. Why on earth did you risk putting a “filler” conference in your request? What if they’d only approved that one instead of the one you actually wanted to attend?

            1. I put in filler because that’s how the game is played and my boss asked me to include filler. For context the important events are unmistakably the important ones, the powers that be aren’t going to reject COP while approving Duluth. There was truly no risk of only the unimportant events getting picked.

      4. I had the same thought.

         Also, I think it would be pretty cool to see Duluth in February, just for the experience of it.

         1. +1 I think it’d be interesting to experience that kind of weather!

   7. I would just go.

   8. Why do you HAVE to go? If I am approved for travel and conferences, that does not mean I absolutely have to go. I can say I changed my mind or have a conflict.

   9. I would lean in and go! See what kinds of cozy restaurants there are and get a hotel connected to the convention center – or one with a big fireplace in the lobby.

      1. I think I would do this too, and I flipping HATE snow/cold. I would take every measure to avoid being outside, though haha.

   10. I wouldn’t pass up a good opportunity over snow. But if this is really an unimportant event, and your time is better focused elsewhere, I would wait a month or two and say, “The detailed schedule came out, and this year, this Event seems duplicative of the speakers and topics at Important Event. I’ll pass on this one and focus on X Project in February.” But if this event rotates between Duluth and Palm Springs, you won’t get approved to go to Palm Springs next year.

       1. I think the people saying next year won’t be approved have a serious case of overestimating organizational memory . . .

   11. I bet all the travel was okayed because several departments complained about all of the rejections.

   12. That’s what you get for trying to game the system. I’d go because who knows when you’ll get another chance?

   13. Who puts a conference in Duluth in February?

       1. Someone who’s wants to torture me. Seriously though scientists since February is the offseason for my specialty. They could have picked a better location though.

       2. I worked for a law firm that would always send us to Milwaukee in February and Orlando in August for retreats/firm events. I assume it was for budget reasons? Milwaukee in winter and Florida in summer is presumably a lot cheaper than the reverse.

       3. People who are cheap.

   14. Just don’t book it. They will forget you were even supposed to go by Feb. If they don’t then you have a “personal commitment “ and cannot attend. End of story. As long as you don’t actually spend any money for the registration or flights you are not committed to go. If they pay for it then you should go.

   15. If I didn’t go on every one of these trips offered to me (that I had already requested to go on!), I’d be concerned that my employer would revert back to being stingy and not approve future trips for me… I’d go at all costs

   16. Duluth is fine in February. It’s more temperate than the Twin Cities and the lake is fearsome and gorgeous in the winter. Bring boots and change into your shoes when you get where you’re going.

2. Does anyone know about compression sleeves for weight lifting? When I’m doing bicep curls my L elbow hurts a bit, and I’m kind of avoiding push-ups altogether until I’m stronger because I feel like my wrists are weak. I can find compression sleeves for elbows, but if I’m size 16 what size should I get? But for wrists it looks like everything is the arthritis gloves – is that the same thing for lifting? Is there anything I can get for both? Halp!

   1. My first question is – is this elbow pain when working out alone or with a trainer/someone watching your form. The elbow pain immediately makes me think your form is off and you are holding your elbow out and causing strain on it.

      For the wrists what you want are wrist wraps. I have bad wrists (combo of carpal tunnel and lack of mobility) and wrist wraps can make a big difference for me. Also, push up handles. Doing push ups with handles takes some pressure off your wrists but still gives you the benefit of the exercise. I only do them with handles now!

   2. I’m in a similar place. Really weak wrists. I am trying to build up the muscles supporting the joints rather than use anything extra for support. Less weight, more reps, focus on form. I do recline push ups against my kitchen counter.

   3. Internet stranger advice – Pain during a bicep curl suggests that there is something else going on functionally that a compression sleeve does not resolve. My guess (from years at the gym) is that you are using a weight that is too heavy and to adjust you are adding a bit of an extra movement to the curl which is causing the problem. Probably a smaller scale of bros at the gym who turn a bicep curl into a full body movement. It could also be there is instability and you need to work on making the muscles a lot stronger – hence, someone like a good trainer or PT can help identify so you don’t keep strengthening the wrong muscles.

      1. I will take that advice, it may be too heavy for me. I’ll try to go lighter next time. (I’m doing FitBod and they just recommend weights so I usually give it a college try.)

      2. This. Dial back the weight until it no longer bothers you. Focus on increased reps at lower weight.

   4. If your elbow is hurting I would ask your doctor for a referral to a physical therapist. Look for one focused on sports. I went to a PT for several months for what turned out to be tennis elbow and it helped so much.

3. I start a long federal court trial in two weeks and I am panicking about selecting appropriate post-pandemic footwear. I will primarily be wearing black and navy formal suits, possibly one In a light blue. Is Golden Goose the way to go here? Or is the P448 a better choice since they don’t have a pre-scuffed look? Also, there will be one day when only counsel and the judge will be handling business outside the presence of the jury. Which nap dress do you recommend? Or is Vuori or Athleta the only way to go now? Any particular style? Also, are we actually post-pandemic? My client currently has Covid. Otherwise we’d be starting on Monday.

   1. If you aren’t wearing a hair tie on your wrist just stay home.

   2. Is this before or after your trip to the Greenbrier?

      1. LOL

   3. Huh? For court? Is this a humor post?

      1. obvi meant to be satire

      2. Yep, it’s a joke.

      3. Yes and the responses are giving me life.

      4. There was an attempt.

   4. Just make sure your water bottle is professional and be aware that a ponytail higher than your ears may be suspect.

   5. Make sure opposing counsel isn’t staring at your tuchus.

   6. I work in a formal firm and even our senior leaders have been seen wearing the Ecco or Allen Edmonds leather sneakers with their suits from time to time (usually these are the ‘younger’ GenX partners in more casual industries/locations) and it always looks so odd to me. If it’s formal enough to wear a suit you probably need to wear real dress shoes!

   7. Just make sure your water bottle coordinates.

   8. You’re joking, but I am scheduled for trial this fall and have been looking for some new suits. My standbys have nothing to offer! Banana Republic appears to have adopted an adventure-chic style right now, and suit offerings currently include Carmen SanDiego- inspired hat/jacket combos and an actual camel suede separates set, among other inventions. I get that traditional work wear isn’t in super high demand right now but that doesn’t mean that I can show up to court dressed like a sea captain.

      1. But can’t you?

      2. Ann Taylor! It has saved me several times this year.

      3. OP here – I am joking about the shoes part, but not about the trial part. Or the Covid delay part.
         I feel you on the suiting panic. When I thought we were going in 2021, I had to scour the web for smaller jackets for my favorite suits. I was lucky to find just one in each color on Overstock.com, of all places. Luckily I still have a couple of other suits, as well.
         I also recommend Ann Taylor for this moment. They have their classic suits in stock.

4. I’ve got a painting question that is making me pause and research. Apartment was painted with a sprayer before moving in. Several years later, it is scuffed and sad in places and I’d like to touch up. It’s a small job I could tackle in a day (moving items, covering floors, all prep, getting paint, painting) vs hiring painters (who’d have a sprayer). My question is for painting over 1) sprayed high-gloss paint that is on trim, do I use a brush or will that make it look brushy or should I use a roller? and 2) for sprayed-on wall paint, roller?

   I’d usually use a brush on trim and roller on walls and have been a fairly good amateur painter of prior houses. I have the prior paint cans, so matching the paint won’t be an issue (or is dependent on the store, I guess). But the finish of brush vs roller vs sprayer is something I haven’t encountered before. If it matters, the trim touch-ups are fewer. It’s the thought of do I touch up a spot on a wall or do I need to just repaint that whole wall that is concerning (paint musing: is touching up a spot going to darken that area vs if I repaint a wall, the wall is even in color but possibly darker than the other walls). My prior walls were much lighter and in a flat paint that did not ever present me with these issues (just slap a bit on with a roller and go).

   1. Glossier paints don’t do that well with rollers in my experience. I’ve used rollers with semi-gloss on trim before and then finished with a brush to get rid of the stippled look the roller leaves.
      Trim that tends to be fine to touch up a spot if there’s a nick or something. I find walls look obviously touched up, especially if your room gets any decent sunlight and the paint might have faded slightly. And if you dont have the original paint cans, I wouldn’t even bother to try, as paint colors shift slightly from can to can, so just buying a new can may result in an obviously different color unfortunately.

      1. This is interesting — when you repaint walls, do you repaint not just the whole wall but all walls in a room (and with fresh paint unless the prior can is also a very recent can)? It seems like a lot of work but maybe that is just the better way to do it?

         1. I don’t repaint often, but yes I usually repaint the whole room. I guess you could stick to just doing one wall if you wanted, as a difference might look like a trick of light/shadow the way it hits one wall vs the other, as opposed to, say, having a slightly different colored spot in the middle of a wall.

            1. Just repainted one wall of our kitchen with a new can of paint in the old color, after 7+ years. In this case it is unnoticeable. I’m sure it helps that there isn’t much wall (due to cabinets, etc) and that most of the light comes in from the repainted wall so the light is uneven.

         2. There can be very slight differences in different pots of the same paint color. Plus if it’s been a long time or if the room is very sunny, the other walls may appear noticeably faded.

            1. Which is exactly what London said, I and just skimmed over. D’oh!

      2. Really depends on the roller type+ wall texture! There’s very very low nap rollers for getting perfectly smooth finishes i.e. for glossy paints, and fluffiest of fluffy rollers for textured walls which will leave the stippled texture that you’re worried about, but also cover uneven surfaces well. Make sure you’re getting the highest quality and the right roller for the job!

   2. Roller on the walls, use a brush on the trim. If you’re getting brush marks on the trim, use floetrol. You don’t need to repaint the whole wall if you used flat or matte paint.

5. High waisted and pleats . . . This is lovely, but as a short hippy person, this likely will make me look like a blog. How soon until we slide into turn-of-the-century Dockers as a look?

   1. BLOB — ugh, need coffee

6. Thank you for whoever recommended Suzannah Lipscombe last week in the podcast recommendations. I thought that I was the Tudor history queen and I’ve been listening in when I go walking and I am Learning Things (3 of Henry VIII’s wives were second cousins of each other (I knew that Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were first cousins of each other); Henry VIII’s last wife was named after his first wife who was her godmother). Merci!

   1. Oh that was me!!! It’s such a fascinating podcast…the one about the Chinese guidebooks was so cool. She does such a good job!

   2. Speaking of Henry VIII’s wives, have you heard the musical SIX? Cast recording is available on music streaming services. I love it for being a modern pop music interpretation of his six wives and I’ve gone to see it live twice.

      1. I LOVE Six! I get “K. Howard is heere and the fun’s beguuuuuuun” stuck in my head more than I would like to admit.

         1. I am a descendant of the Howards and I love to belt that one out and my husband is so annoyed.

      2. Yes! Coming to my city this year I think.

   3. That last sentence. Wow, seems so awkward

7. Need some wardrobe advice, please. Rather, just one outfit. Occasionally I’ll need to visit a worksite in steel-toed boots, a hardhat, and a high-vis vest (the chartreuse kind.) What can I wear under that that isn’t overly masculine? If it’s a dress, what kind? If trousers, again, what kind? I ordinarily don’t wear them to the office as I’m a pear.

   I managed to find some boots that aren’t hideous but are like chelsea boots, not laced up to the knee.

   Thanks!

   1. If you are wearing steel toed boots, a hard hat, and a vest, then I think long pants and occasionally long sleeves would be expected. I had a job that required this occasionally and I basically wore workwear – black pants, conservative blazer – with the boots and hat. Ever see pictures of politicians touring factory floors? Basically dress like that.

      My parents both worked in corporate roles for a manufacturing company so I got some advice from them. My dad at one point owned dress shoes with steel toes because he was out on shop floors so much. My mom told me depending where she was going, she had to wear all cotton and long sleeves. Synthetic fabrics can be dangerous in certain conditions.

      Oh, and prepare for your legs to get toned from lugging an extra 5lbs around on your feet all day :)

      1. Agreed, when I’ve been to industrial sites I’ve work all cotton/wool clothing for safety reasons. Otherwise everyone just wears their normal work clothing.

   2. Omg girl it is not a dress

      1. +1

   3. When you have to wear steel toes and a hard hat, your priority is safety not fashion. Most places will affirmatively require pants – and often long sleeves. Assuming this is a not a photo op, or quick novelty tour, in almost all situations, the appropriate pants are either jeans (not skinny) or khakis. Typical shirts are the Columbia PFG or knock off. There is a reason why work clothes are work clothes.

      1. +1, with the caveat that you can get away with short sleeves during hot summer days but probably not sleeveless even if you are “one of the office people” at the work site. Definitely wear pants. Jeans, khakis, or wool trousers are all fine if you’re just walking around. If you wear a dress no one will take you seriously since you aren’t dressed appropriately for the setting.

         If you’re not actually doing like testing compaction or collecting soil samples, you probably don’t need to wear safety gloves but see if your employer provides safety glasses at the least.

   4. I do this a lot for my job. I wear skinny or slim-cut jeans or ponte pants and a slightly oversized (“boyfriend”) button down shirt. I like it best when the shirttail covers my bum, in case I need to climb ladders, etc. If I need to be more formal I’ll wear a shell and a blazer of a similar longer length. It’s hard to feel super feminine in job site clothing, but I’ve found this look much better for me than polo shirts and khakis, for example. If you’d prefer a dress, COS often has big shirt dresses that will work with tights and boots.

   5. I work with two women who are on a site every day and when I have to bring higher level people to the site, they both look great in a chelsea-style boot, slim jeans, and a drapey blouse with a half-tuck.

   6. I visit suppliers for work on occasion and one requires steel toed boots on site. I bought work boots – because I wanted something that had a hope of being comfortable after a full day, especially when I don’t wear them often.
      My go to outfit is dark jeans and a sedate colored, tech fabric button down shirt as a top. I wear jeans because I detest kackis, but those would work here too.
      Some thoughts to guide you:
      Dressing too femininely on the floor is not a good idea, you’ll stick out as someone who doesn’t belong.
      Wearing a dress or skirt may impede your ability to climb up stairs (without worrying what the people behind or beneath you on the ladder might see). Also you will look like you do not belong on the floor if you wear a skirt or a dress.
      You can find either fitted or loose, c*llared, b*tt0n down shirts from places such as Royal Robbins, Columbia, REI, etc. Pick a neutral or sedate color, and you’re set (navy, red, possibly teal, white, black, green, etc) You could also search for “camp shirt” or “utility shirt” at places such as Ann Taylor if you want less outdoor looking options. NOTE: Royal Robbins has some lovely top options that are more interesting than a button down, and may provide you the compromise you are looking for.
      My sweet spot is a tech fabric shirt that is not a fishing style shirt (too many flaps and loops), has either princess seams or b*st darts, and that I can wear a cotton tank underneath. I choose long or three quarter length sleeves and roll them up as needed. If you’re in a manufacturing environment you may get fluid, or dirt on your clothes and further it may not be as cool or warm as an office environment. Tech fabric cleans easily in a hotel room and dries fast. I have spilled oil on a white camp shirt and got the stain out in the hotel room later that evening. Jeans can be wiped off and worn again.
      I would not wear suiting fabric if you expect to get dirty. But that’s just me. Black work pants with a boot cut will work if you really prefer the more office professional look.
      Other things to consider: do not wear anything but minimal jewelry. You may be asked to take it off before going out on the floor. Accessorizing to look for feminine may not be the best solution depending on the rules of the place you are visiting.
      I hope you enjoy your trip and find clothes that make you feel comfortable and confident!

   7. why on earth are you concerned about looking too masculine when you are at a factory or construction s-te?? Is this a novelty meet and greet where you’re stopping by in office attire but have to pay lip service to safety requirements? If you’re actually spending real time there, you’ll want to be in pants (probably jeans) and a long sleeved shirt with no frippery (like a p-ssybow or other loose ends).

      1. Maybe she is a Republican politician?

      2. Points for using the word frippery.

      3. Okay, I think these comments are harsh. You can also care about what you look like and care about safety. They’re not mutually exclusive.

         1. The comments are not too harsh. Construction sites are dangerous. There is no way someone should be trying to put looking cute or feminine above being safe.

         2. I was reacting to the word ‘masculine’ specifically. You don’t have to go out and buy menswear in order to look tailored (like, wearing your own jeans) but appropriate and safe at a s-te like this.

   8. I agree with a lot of the comments. I would gauge it off of your co-workers and how long you’ll be there. I’ve been in scenarios where I’ve visited customers with this work environment for sales orientated meetings. In those scenarios my coworkers are typically in business casual with a suit coat until they switch to a high vis vest for a 1/2 hour or 1 hour tour of the plant.
      I bit the bullet and have multiple types of steel toes. Xena Workwear has some nice steel toed booties with a heel style. They’ve been handy for me as I’m able to wear my normal dress pants with these and it doesn’t look odd.
      I definitely do not recommend a skirt or dress. Cat walks are pretty common or even viewing decks that are grated metal above.

   9. A nap dress for sure!

   10. Your attire will also depend on what type of environment you are visiting. I used to visit a shipyard and they had intense safety requirements – chelsea boot style steel-toe boots would have gotten me escorted out of there real quick. They didn’t even allow safety toe, had to be steel toe, workboot/hiking boot style (I have a pair of low Keens and a pair of high Timberland Pro). I used to wear boots + jeans + company polo shirt + hard hat + breakaway lanyard. Short sleeves were okay. I wasn’t really concerned on how masculine/feminine I looked; was more concerned on not getting escorted out of the yard for not being in the appropriate attire. If you’ve never been to the site before, I’d recommend finding out if they have PPE/dress code requirements. Many places do.

   11. Thanks, everyone. I’m the opposite of a Republican politician, and I appreciate the thoughtful replies. It’s a building site, and I’m in communications, so the visit is to help me/us put actual words to what we’ve been describing for a while now — a brief visit, then working in a trailer the rest of the day. It’ll be hot outside, but AC inside. I’ve got a couple weeks to experiment. Thanks again!

       1. Best of luck! I hope it’s cool. I love building sites.

       2. Given that it’s a construction site, jeans and a polo would be appropriate. They will likely provide you a hard hat, glasses, safety gloves, etc. You definitely don’t want to be the cause of a recordable while you’re on site!

   12. I don’t think you really know which color chartreuse is – at least I’ve NEVER seen safety gear in chartreuse, but other than that (I do apologize, but since it’s a fashion site… chartreuse if the color of gall bladder vomit green, not fluorescent green!):

       Full length trousers and proper socks are obligatory for steel-toed boots. No dresses. No skirts. Full length trousers with proper socks. Done.

       You might get away with a shorter sleeve, but why would you want to? For safety situations, wear appropriate clothes. Full length arms as well. If you for some weird reason truly need to read feminine, you could get proper safety gear in pink reflective fabric but why oh why would anybody want that?

8. I saw a young woman on the subway this morning dressed in a black & white glen plaid pencil skirt, a black short-sleeved mock turtleneck tucked in, a skinny black belt, and black ballet flats that looked like Madewell or Nisolo to my eye. She looked fantastic! So those of you saying that ballet flats are back, I think you win.

   1. That sounds like a very intentional outfit well put-together, so I’m not surprised that the flats worked (and it looks like it all worked). And my guess is that it wasn’t a look like the formerly-ubiquitous Reva’s and knock-offs, but something that was a fresh 2022 ballet shoe iteration. [I’m on TeamFlats now and realizing I need a wardrobe of them, like I had for heels; there is not one flat shoe that works perfectly for everything for office looks.]

      1. Please share favorite flats or types or categories of flats! I’m trying to switch from heels to flats and am struggling finding the “right” look some days.

         1. Ferragamo Varina – I have collected probably 7 of these over the last decade and love them. Well made and I get them resoled with rubber on the bottom when they’re worn thin. Ballet flat look but elevated with some hardware. Expensive but Rue often has them on sale. And then the Beya flat by Nicholas Kirwood. It’s pointed so maybe not as trendy but checks a lot of boxes and also comfortable.

            1. I think I wore those shoes to my fifth-grade graduation. Hard pass.

            2. My favourites…both.

         2. I’m on team loafer. Birdies has one that looks sharp and comes in a bunch of colors.

            1. Do you have a pair? I’ve been getting all the Insta ads for them and have been considering it, but want them to actually be comfy.

            2. Not yet but they’re siting in my online cart lol

            3. Ooh, please report back!

         3. I went looking for the shoes, and didn’t find anything at my two guesses. These are the closest to what she was wearing: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/jack-rogers-serena-ballet-flat-women/6687775?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FShoes%2FFlats%2FBallet&color=017

            Between knee surgery in 2019 and 2+ years of slippers, I’m wearing more flats than I used to. Ballet flats have never worked for my feet (I walk right out of them), but I may try some with high vamps & pleats, because I like the look. Like this: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/linea-paolo-newry-ballet-flat-women/6747783?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FShoes%2FFlats&color=001

            I’m mostly excited that loafer pumps are back. They’re perfect for full-length wide leg trousers.

      2. +1 it sounds like, in this case, it was more that SHE looked great than that the ballet flats themselves were a key to making the outfit look great. Pencil skirts, ballet flats, etc. aren’t necessarily current, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be part of a great outfit.

   2. This sounds like a great outfit! I think ballet flats have always worked in outfits like that, you just have to be aware of the skirt length and which flats exactly.

      I’ve also re-realized that skirts in general are my body shapes best friend, especially at work, so thanks for the outfit inspiration!

      1. +1. I don’t know why, but I’m envisioning the skirt part of her outfit as being a bit shorter side. The whole outfit sounds fabulous. I love wearing shorter skirts and flats, though I usually gravitate to knee high or shorter boots, as I too, struggle to find flats that will accommodate an orthotic.

         1. She was sitting, so not totally sure of the length, but I’m assuming slightly past her knees, because seated it hit at her knees.

   3. Takes a bow . . .

      1. Seriously? Was it you?

         1. I think this was meant in response to “…those of you saying that ballet flats are back I think you win.” It made me laugh!

   4. Like always, what’s in style or not depends a lot on the little details.

      1. Yes! I don’t think I’ve seen most people saying that ALL ballet flats are “out,” but more like there are lots of styles of ballet flats, so those that were purchased in 2016 probably don’t look up to date.

         1. +1, if you are still trying to rock your 2010 TB medallion ballet flats, you look dated. If you are wearing a recently purchased version, you look fine.

      2. It also depends on quality and upkeep. A trashed ballet flat (saw way too many of those back in the day) is going to look far less professional than a well cared for, well made shoe – this is true for any style of shoe but for some reason old ballet flats really seem to take a beating.

         1. Because ballet flags are so… flimsy. Never liked them, and many versions back in the day were so round! Made my feet look like paws, and I don’t have particularly wide or short feet. Like the poster upthread said, I tended to walk out of them, plus my left foot rolls in a bit, so the inner side of the left shoe would sort of “vanish” under my feet. And they were not very supportive.

            That said, there are 2022 versions of a ballet flat out there. They seem to have narrower toes or higher vamps.

9. does anyone have recs for a backpack to use for citibike commuting? Would like it to hold a laptop and a helmet comfortably so probably needs to be pretty big.

   1. Can you clip the helmet to the outside by the chin strap or something?

      1. This is what I do, but I think there is a market for a lightly padded helmet bag that could attach to your backpack. I get nervous about my helmet getting banged about.

   2. I have the RYU quick pack in black and I really like it. It’s not tiny but the 18L holds my lunch, my laptop, a small purse, my helmet, my coffee, and my notebook. It’s black, minimalist design, light, easy as carry on and works for a weekend trip as well. You can squeeze in a sweater or a raincoat as needed.

      1. Oh and it fits in the pannier things on the citibike nicely: https://ryu.ca/products/quick-pack-18l-limited

10. I have this sinking suspicion that remote work is going to lead to me stalling out in my up-or-out career path. Like I know someone who is a remote worker who has never advanced (by design) but wanted to be a solo individual contributor and has in fact turned down promotions to have a set life / work schedule that works for her. My job isn’t like that though — BigLaw associate and I have a feeling I’m living on borrowed time b/c I am basically doing the same tasks I have been doing since 2019 and there has been little in the way of training since higher-up people are also remote (and probably drowning trying to keep it all together). We all have our struggles but I don’t know how to get out of this trap when CLEs have been remote. I want my next gig (which I am actively looking for) to be something where everyone is largely in person b/c how am I supposed to learn (and I have loans to pay). How to I screen in non-remote jobs as I search? Smaller firms? More people >40 who do come in to the office every day (from what I hear / read)?

    1. Are you not allowed in your office? If you are, maybe start going in twice a week. See who is there. If you aren’t, maybe work one day a week at a coworking space or make a point to go out to lunch. National industry associations are going back to in person meetings because they historically rely on events to make money. Might be worth going to a couple of those.

    2. Have you asked to do new tasks?

       1. I’m not a lawyer, but this is becoming a real issue more largely. Even if you do ask to do new tasks, there is a benefit to juniors to being in the office and around things. If senior people are busy, giving a junior they don’t have much of a connection with good, new tasks that will help them grow just doesn’t feel like as high of a priority.

    3. i am pretty sure remote work is going to end for biglaw. firm leadership all know that juniors are not getting trained properly. corporate practice has always been pretty flexible but i think we’re going to have to be in 3 days a week.

       1. Regional office of a biglaw firm here – we have explicitly been told 3 days a week moving forward. The issue now is they all of the juniors are coming in looking for training and the partners are never here.

          1. same here! Not biglaw, but leadership pushed for everyone to come back a few days/week, and now supervisors aren’t showing up. It’s not a good look.

             1. It really isn’t! My kingdom for an edit gesture, sigh.

             2. Edit function! Omg I’m going to go get coffee now.

          2. My husband (biglaw partner) and his team have been in for 3 days for the last year+ and it’s made their team way more desirable to summers and juniors. And I get it – when I swing by the office (I used to work in the same group), it’s a really nice, social environment.

       2. I commented below about being a junior pre-pandemic and I really don’t see training falling off as dramatically as people say. Success is biglaw requires you to be a self-starter and to have some bit of luck. This hasn’t changed in the past few years

          1. Hard disagree. I know we all prefer remote work but it has been a disaster for my firm in terms of training juniors.

             They don’t know what they don’t know and they cannot just wander down the hall to find a friendly senior associate to bounce things off of. It has been fine for senior people working with people they know – but at this point I have never met most of our juniors. I do no love commuting but am happy to be back in the office 3 times a week (but then in my office the partners are showing up too).

    4. I wouldn’t be so focused on remote or in-person and instead think about ways to address the real issue of training. Higher ups have always been busy. What are you hoping to learn? Can you find ways to meet directly about these issues with colleagues or mentors instead? Would attending events or reading more help? Can you snag time on someone’s schedule even if it’s far out? Can you ask to be included as an observer in situations that would be helpful? Part of learning is being independent and hunting down what you need. Showing initiative like this can also make others more willing to take the time to invest in you.

       1. I agree with this advice. I’m an 8th year in biglaw and spent the first 5.5 years working pre-pandemic. I certainly felt the struggle to get adequate training then – sure, we came into the office but everyone went into their own office and called me via phone the same as they do now…

          Things that helped-
          1. Asking questions about changes my supervisor made to my drafts – what was your thought process? Would you make this comment on every purchase agreement or is there something specific to this type of deal? What a market? Etc etc
          2. Reviewing precedent documentation on the firm intranet KM website to fill in some of the missing pieces
          3. Taking PLI classes and reading applicable treatises
          4. Asking for stretch assignments and not getting complacent once you figure out one type of agreement/transaction

          Honestly law is a bit of a slog and you need to look out for your career and training. No one will sit you down and lecture you on the ins and outs of these items. They’re too busy themselves

       2. this is a good point. my best juniors are the ones who take initiative but i will say it is intimidating for most.

       3. I agree with this completely. I’ve seen so many posts here and elsewhere that suggests many juniors (and many senior folks, too) think that office presence magically results in training. It does not.

          I came up when everyone was in the office 6 days a week (as a junior I came in almost every Saturday). I had some wonderful training and some partners/senior associates who didn’t train at all. The best learning opportunities I got were those I asked for. Higher ups have always been busy and will always be busy. As one of my teachers used to say, you aren’t here to receive an education, you’re here to claim one. So claim it. Demand training. Ask questions about edits to your documents. Why was that change made? Why are we using this precedent instead of another one? After a call with the client or opposing counsel you listen in on, call the senior person and ask about anything you don’t understand, including why you or the client or the other side cares about an issue.

          The very best training I received was from a partner I think I saw 6 times a year. This was in the before times. He just was never in the office because he had multiple houses, traveled for work a lot and when he was in town he often spent most of the day out of the office meeting with clients or prospective clients. But he was one of the best lawyers I ever worked with and absolutely brilliant. It was intimidating to call him with questions but getting over the feeling that I was bothering him with questions was how I claimed my education and became the lawyer I am today.

          No one is going to care about your career as much as you will. You gotta ask for opportunities and training or you may never get them. The men all are. Don’t get left behind. You can do this.

11. I’m getting married in a week and my (male) fiancé is very self conscious about two things — being too hot/sweaty and his lovehandles. I would love to get him some sort of magical product that is like both cooling and compression undershirt or boxer briefs. I looked at Spanx for men but a lot of reviews say they made the wearers overheated and that is the opposite of what we want. Does anyone have any experience with products of this nature?

    1. Could you try the Spanx anyway paired with clinical strength deodorant (maybe applied in unconventional areas if he thinks that would help)?

       And congratulations!

    2. My husband wears spanks for men when he dresses up and doesn’t find them overly sweaty. It was one of he most endearing things to learn about him too.

    3. Not sure if it’s too close to the date the try this Botox can be used to reduced sweating. It would be for the high sweat areas for the individuals.

       Also, supposedly if a person is hot and sweating, putting a piece of ice on the top of your mouth (the roof) stops the sweating. I don’t sweat much so not something I have tried out.

    4. Also …check out products made for construction workers to stay cool as well.

    5. Can you stash a couple fresh shirts at the venue?

    6. I think men can do a lot with proper tailoring to avoid visible love handles. Maybe start there.

       When my boyfriend and I had to attend a hot outdoor wedding, I suggested that he wear one of his wicking tees, the kind you exercise in, under his shirt. It seemed to help.

    7. If you order the spanx, order his regular size and one size up. They’ll still be smoothing a size up and more comfortable

    8. It doesn’t help with feeling hot, but clinical strength certain-dri can stop sweating very effectively. Use it a couple days in a row prior to the event. Botox would also be useful if you have time to arrange it!

    9. Try megababe and/or their men’s line MegaMan… They have a lot of products for sweating. Maybe the powder or the lotion-to-powder?

    10. Get him at least two shirts for the wedding! My dad had three of the exact same tuxedo shirts for my June wedding and loved being able to change into something fresh before cocktails started after all the outdoor photos were done

    11. I don’t mean to be mean but the answer is pants that fit. He needs to go to a tailor like today. Maybe they can let out the pants he already has. There isn’t such a thing a corset for (cis, straight) men because men’s clothes are designed to be forgiving when properly tailored, unlike women’s clothes that are designed to be more fitted and highlight curves.

        1. This. Get his suit tailored to fit properly.

        2. Ah love handles. They’re not like a muffin top. They’re there when the men in my life are in their birthday suits. They’re just a shape and nothing to do with pants being tight.

12. Minor rant: I am in a part time grad program and Id say about 80% of my classmates also work full time. I currently (for the first time in 5 years) work a normal 9-5 schedule with limited after hours work, however I work in a field thats 24/7: shift work, nights/weekends, rotating shifts, lots of mandatory OT are all normal. The classes are technically asynchronous but really there’s a live online class each week for folks to attend and the class is recorded and sent out to those who cant make it due to work/family obligations. That being said, I prefer to treat the live class as “mandatory” and only miss it when absolutely unavoidable. When I register for classes there is no class time listed since its technically asynchronous.

    The semester starts on Monday. The coursesite for the course has not yet been published to students so I cant see when the live sessions will be nor can I see the syllabus. Ive heard great things about the professor, so I’m excited to take her class but I’d really like to see the syllabus sooner rather than later. The school runs on the quarter system so classes are condensed and there is a lot of material/assignments in a short (9 week) timeframe -for example, last semester in addition to a lot of reading and weekly discussion posts I also had 4 papers, a presents and an exam in the 9 weeks.

    Being only a part time student I have to fit in the assignments and classes between my full time job, half marathon training, a social life, and personal obligations: just over the course of this semester I have 2 weddings, a short family vacation, and I will be moving apartments. I can fit it all in, but obviously it will require meticulous planning on my part.

    I already emailed with the professor asking when class was and she gave a kind but unhelpful answer. Should I ask about a syllabus or is that too pushy seeing as it rill be published soon regardless? Im out of town this weekend, so wouldn’t be doing a ton of prep work anyways. This desire to have access to the coursesite is partially my own curiosity and stress about the upcoming semester and partially the need to plan my schoolwork ahead.

    1. The thing is, sometimes when you’re working and doing grad school, you can’t do two weddings and a vacation during the semester. You have to say no to those things because you are busy. You’ve inquired enough, if you’re this worried free up time don’t bug the professor.

       1. Eh you cant control when other people have their weddings and for me, school is a pretty bad reason to miss a wedding.

          My roommate and I both work full time/are in grad school part time and were both training for a marathon right now. She has ten weddings this year (2 are international and she’s in 4 of the weddings). She and her boyfriend are also buying a house. And she goes out like 3x a week. Cab confirm that if you plan/schedule well you can fit it all in.

          1. Yeah, no, school is not a bad reason to miss a wedding.

             1. You do you, but I can’t imagine telling a close friend or a relative I can’t attend their wedding because of a part time grad class I’m taking…

          2. Your roommate is not an example to be emulated; she’s an illustration of the problem of insane wedding expectations. Who on earth has the money for two international and eight domestic weddings, plus wedding party expenses for four weddings, in one year? Who even has that much PTO? I am past peak wedding age and still could only afford maybe one international trip every two years. No way am I wasting that on someone’s wedding.

             1. + 1000

             2. To be fair, 7 of the weddings she has this year are in our home city so the cost of attendance is really just the gift and there’s no PTO taken (and spending $100 on a gift vs spending $75 going out on a Saturday isn’t a huge difference). The 2 international weddings are both in someone’s home country so while yes they’re expensive and time consuming to attend they’re overseas for a good reason, not just to be trendy on instagram. The last wedding is a 2 hour drive away so no PTO and just paying for one night in a hotel and gas, no airfare/multiple nights in hotels. Our crowd is pretty low key, so even while being in the wedding does cost some money it’s not all that over the top. I have friends who drop thousands of dollars for weddings, and I can assure you my roommate is not doing that (like only 1 of the 4 weddings had a destination bachelorette, the other 3 were 1 night of going out in our home city).

                And, of course 10 weddings in one year is a lot but we’re 30, so it feels like everyone we know is getting married and these are rescheduled 2020/2021 weddings + 2022 weddings. My roommate makes like 90k, work pays for her grad school entirely, and so while yes its not cheap, its very doable for her.

             3. DH and I barely had 10 weddings total in our 20s and 30s. 10 in one year is unimaginable to me! To be fair, we have small families, a lot of our friends (including us) had fairly small weddings, and we did have several friends got married over Zoom in 2020 and not have a re-do, so I can see how people attend more weddings than we did. But 10 weddings in one year still sounds bonkers to me.

    2. +1 you are certainly not the only adult/part time grad student who has to meticulously plan out their work to get it all done while also not dropping the ball elsewhere in life… (bc that is also me!)

       1. Me, too, until I finished in the spring. Ask!

    3. Professor here. Students asking for syllabi months in advance always get a lot of eye rolls from faculty because they’re almost never complete until just before the semester starts. This is especially true since the pandemic, as university plans keep changing and we have to scramble to keep changing with them. I’m extremely uncomfortable sending out a syllabus that’s likely to change so I never post it until about a week in advance, and sometimes later when there are still unresolved issues out of my control.

       However, I’m happy to answer specific questions, as long as those are in my power to answer. It’s completely reasonable to ask about the times of live classes. It’s still possible that she won’t answer if the schedule is still up in the air for some reason, but it’s reasonable that you want to know before you commit to the class. In this case, though, if you’re going to take it no matter what, and it starts on Monday, I’d probably just wait a few days and see then.

       1. I should add that my classes are all supposed to be in person, but have been switching between online, hybrid, and person over the last few years, often with only a few days notice, which is why I’m so hesitant to commit to a syllabus. I’m actually a little surprised that a class that’s online no matter what doesn’t at least publicize the live class times. That seems really important to know before enrolling!

          1. Yes – I asked the registrar because I assumed I was missing where the times were listed! They directed me to ask the professor who told me she’s flexible and understands we have other commitments and can watch recorded classes if needed, but didn’t tell me when class was.

             Im already signed up for Tuesday night tennis lessons so Im just hoping that this class isn’t on Tuesdays, because I already paid for the lessons.

             I have a coworker who did this program 5 years ago and it was pm campus only… its now online only which is fine even though the campus is only 25 minutes away!

             1. I mean, just watch the recorded version this week and go about your life!

             2. Tennis lessons sound like too much.

       2. I totally get that things are changing for most professors* up until the semester, though it’d be nice to have at least a rough idea (papers will be due in the 2nd, 5th and 6th weeks of the program). I spent an entire friends beach weekend this summer writing a paper because it was due that Sunday. Had I known earlier when assignments would have been due I would have backed out of the weekend or asked to get together another week. I already canceled one friend weekend this fall and am wrestling over what to do with a bachelorette party and a family reunion.

          It’s Thursday and I still dont know when class meets for a semester that starts on Monday… I could have class at 6pm on Monday for all I know!

          *most of the professors in my program are adjuncts/professionals in the field who teach a class or two. The department head develops the entire curriculum (readings, assignments, rubrics, etc). It doesn’t appear that syllabi are updated all that frequently; some of the readings for the last class I had were so out of date they were no longer correct (happened to be 2 readings that were about the niche sub field that I work, and have previously done research in… the articles were 15 years old talking about a future policy… were now on the 3rd iteration of that policy and a lot has changed). My last professor referred to himself as less of a professor and more of a moderator.

          1. Ok, either school is a priority or it’s not. You honestly sound very overbooked. I’d be seriously looking at the number of your commitments on your plate and scaling back accordingly so you can be a little more flexible and not have to plan so meticulously. I think your expectations are a bit unrealistic.

             1. Even when balancing all of my commitments, I have been able to maintain a 4.0 so far in the program so I am able to make it all work. I basically give myself x amount of time a week for other things (training runs, Tuesday tennis, a few standing social plans, and then some chore/errand time (which I’ve really streamlined) and a Lottie bit of downtime) and spend the rest of my “free time” on school. I give myself 2 fun weekends a month and 2 work weekends a month.

                FWIW, in undergrad I had a double major + a minor, I was a D1 athlete and was involved in the athletics leadership program, was in a sorority, and had 2 work study jobs. So, Ive always been balancing several commitments while in school.

             2. Ahhhh this will be a post where the only answer that is the right answer is OMG the professor is horrible how could he/she/they do this to you!!

             3. I sincerely hope that that is not the attitude my post is giving off. I just thanked a poster below who gave the perspective that the professor isn’t being paid til Monday so to not expect anything until Monday.

                I know I have a lot on my plate (like most grad students i know) so I was just explaining how I make it work and that I’ve been successful in doing so thus far in the program. Other professors I have had have made the materials available 7-10 days prior to the class starting so I wasn’t sure if this was abnormal or not. Ive heard good things about my professor and I’m excited to take her class.

             4. Like it’s either or right? Either everything is fine and you can do work and grad school
                And multiple travel weekends and weekly tennis and just watch the recording. Or it isn’t! And you need to be doing less. But the professor doesn’t have to tell you the dates assignments are due to facilitate you deciding to go falconing or to tennis camp.

             5. Congratulations for being perfect, then, OP.

             6. I don’t know why people got snarky when I asked if I should contact the professor, everyone told me I have too much on my plate, I explained how I have a handle on it and then people got snarky.

                I’m well aware I take on a lot (and I always have) and that most people wouldn’t want to be as busy as I am. We all get to make our own choices, but I’ve decided to not give up a few things that are important to me while I”m in school. As a result of my choices, I have a busier life and that’s the tradeoff I chose to make.

                I understand from this conversation that what my previous professors did was not normal and that I’ll have to wait til Monday for a syllabus/class schedule. I just wasn’t sure if getting the syllabus early was common or not. I will schedule myself out whenever I get my syllabus.

             7. +1 If you are going to school at night you can’t be doing all these other things. School isn’t something to attend when there is nothing else going on. School is the priority. Your life adjusts to fit school not the other way around. This is why evening grad programs have a low graduation rate

             8. Okay, but you *don’t* have a handle on it if you need this much attention from the professor before the class starts to keep your house of cards from falling down.

             9. I don’t *need* to get the syllabus this week, I just would prefer it. Like I said – I’ve taken a few other classes and have always had access to the syllabus prior to the start of class to schedule things out. Now that I don’t have access to it yet, I will just adapt and do my scheduling next week but obviously the preference would be to have it earlier

             10. Here’s how you make plans knowing you have a class – “Hey I would love to come out to the beach that weekend, but I am taking a class and won’t know my schedule until the week before. Can I tell you after X date if I’ll be able to go or not?” X date is the week following the first week of class.

                 The professor isn’t giving you more information because there isn’t more to give. If you can’t move your Tuesday tennis lesson and you won’t watch the class online then either you’ll drop the class or miss the tennis lesson.

                 If there is an event like “My first child is due two weeks after the end of the class, do you think this is a situation where I can plan to be ahead of my course work in case I deliver early?” then the professor is probably more willing to give you an idea of how flexible the date of the final paper/exam is. Be prepared for the professor to advise that you not take the course and be willing to drop it if that is the advice.

          2. Professor here again. Honestly, this sounds like a shoddy program. I at least check all of my readings and assignments every year and change up a decent number of them, which is one reason my syllabus isn’t ready until just before classes start. I really want to be sure they reflect the latest research and current events. Even the things you mention, like due dates, have to change every year as the calendar changes and I move different sections around.

             As someone says below, it’s also true that I don’t get paid in the summer, unless I have a research grant, in which case my time is accountable to that, not teaching. It’s even more true that adjuncts are only getting paid for the actual time in the classroom, so it’s not reasonable to expect them to be working for free over the summer. That’s just the trade off for a program mostly taught by adjuncts. Many of them will do a good job (often better than tenured faculty), but you can’t really have high expectations when they’re generally making less than minimum wage on an hourly basis.

             1. Yeah it is kind of shoddy. The director just seems very out of touch…

                I chose it for the strong local alumni network and for its affordability (which was the deciding factor since I work in nonprofits so the ROI isn’t high) so maybe quality of the program is where I had to sacrifice.

             2. But yes – the adjuncts have all been awesome and have been able to draw upon some really relevant, current work experiences. I hope to pay it forward and do the same one day!

    4. I love it when I can get a syllabus ahead of classes starting, but it’s a bonus, not an expectation. The instructors aren’t being paid ahead of the semester.

       1. Thats a good perspective, thank you!

          Other professors Ive had have given the syllabus like a week out so I was a little surprised I hadn’t seen it yet but I wont worry until Monday. I just wish they’d communicate when class meets!

          I had thought maybe in grad school there’d be a little more prior communication given the fact the students all have other commitments that most undergraduates dont have.

    5. I think you need to decide whether school is your priority or half-marathon training, travel, and your social life are your priority. Not everything can be a priority at the same time, particularly when you’re studying and working at the same time. Yes, it would be great to have more information about when live classes are, but it sounds like the decision that those are mandatory is your decision, not the professor’s (who has already told you that you’re free to watch the recordings). And yes, sometimes you will write a paper during a vacation because that is life as a student who is also doing other stuff. I never had the syllabus for any class that I took made available to me before the first class.

       1. “Not everything can be a priority at the same time” I would like the neon sign version of this for my office please :)

       2. Yes, I’m well aware and am okay with having to do work on vacation. I had just hoped there’d be a better way to plan around my assignments, but sounds like my previous professors went above and beyond in giving the syllabus a week before the semester started and that I can’t expect that going forward.

    6. I had this same schedule for the last 2 years of undergraduate and then later for grad school, where I worked full time and the classes were compressed to 8 weeks each. Yeah it sucks that the professor did not give you all the info already, for a class that starts Monday, but this is the situation so you have to deal with it. I completely understand because I am a planner and this would drive me crazy.

       Regarding scheduling, I made work and school my priority, and all else has to take second place. That doesn’t mean you can’t do anything else other than work and school. That means that I had to work less hours beyond my regular schedule and sometimes I might have had to study during lunch at work, or miss a workout, or pass on a get together. With good planning and time management, I hardly ever had to pass on something I really wanted to do, both small things and big things.

       1. Totally agree! Things a veryyyy scheduled for me (I now wake up 2 hours earlier than I used to so I can study and workout for an hour each before work, I do homework during lunch and do things like if my tennis lesson or dinner with a friend are at 7pm, I’ll stay at work and study between 5-7 and then go to whatever I have going on. Basically anytime I have more than 5 mins free im doing something productive (except the one night a week I set aside for vegging).

          I also definitely miss out on seeing friends, workouts, vacations, etc because I have schoolwork to be done. Its not that I’m not giving up anything to get work done, its just that I don’t want to give up everything so I work really hard to fit it all in.

       2. Sounds like our schedules are/were pretty similar then! I choose my priorities and carefully schedule around them, I have to choose to skip some things I can’t fit in, and I fully admit I am fully scheduled. But, for me I’d rather be fully scheduled and fit in most of what I want to in life rather than have more free time but miss out on things I enjoy.

    7. I would not expect the syllabus until the first day of class, but I would expect to know the days and times of the class meetings when registering for courses.

       1. Yeah I think its weird they dont show when class meets prior to the start of the semester.

          It sounds like I was lucky in that my previous professors made the syllabus available about a week in advance for my previous classes in this program and that this isn’t the norm!

    8. Please know that this may also be out of the professor’s hands. My husband is an adjunct and was given an offer months ago by the department chair for a class this fall. He went to log into the university’s system the other day and suddenly didn’t have access. They then tell him the provost is reviewing and having to re approve all courses due to enrollment issues. Classes start next week. You can bet he isn’t giving a syllabus to students since not even he knows if the class is going to be cancelled at the last minute. Things in higher Ed are crazy right now. But also, getting the syllabus ahead of time would be a courtesy to you even in normal times. And I think it would be pretty tone deaf to request it for the reasons you’ve listed: tennis lessons, weddings, etc.

       1. This. The last time I adjuncted (2019) I found out about 10 days before class started and I certainly did not have the syllabus done until the night before. Also, adjuncts at that institution made $5000 for the semester, and that was the highest in the area. So if the professor is smart, they aren’t spending any more time before the semester than necessary.

    9. It’s reasonable to expect a class schedule in advance but it is not normal to get a class syllabus before the first day.

    10. I was able to knock out half of grad school during the pandemic so I had lucky timing in that there was very few other things going on in my life while I did school. However, most of my good friends (from all different stages of life – these friends don’t know each other lest you think we’re one really intense group!) are in school now. We’re late 20s so lots of weddings, travel to see friends we didn’t see during the pandemic, and generally making up for lost time since the pandemic: going out, joining teams/activities, doing things in our city, travel, etc.

        If you’re dedicated to keeping up with your existing hobbies/social life/commitments, you definitely can fit it all in but it won’t always be fun. I did 2.5 semesters of school pre-pandemic, did school all through the pandemic, and then graduated in May (so about a year of post-tax, almost normal life).
        – I got up stupidly early every day and I would do HW and workout and do some light chores around the apartment before going to work.
        – Even if you only have 5 minutes you can chip away at something on your to-do list: read a few pages of HW, throw in a load of laundry, run the vacuum, stretch, call a friend for a quick catch up, pay a bill, etc.
        – I came up with like 5 go-to meals and a few go-to work outfits and cute weekend outfits and kind of automated picking out what to cook and what to wear. I also developed a pretty streamlined cleaning/chore/errand schedule so that was also automated. I also let a lot slide.
        – I used my commute and lunch break to work on school work. Would read during lunch and listen to recorded lectures on my walk to work.
        – I chose one weekend a month (okay I was on-call at work, so it was chosen for me) to not do social things and use it to get caught up/get ahead on school work, housework, etc. I’d meal prep (and freeze extras), I’d work on any papers/study for tests (basically the non-routine reading/discussion post work). On these weekends, I’d stop working at 8pm on both Fri and Sat night and order fun takeout, watch a movie and chill.
        – I made some of my social events standing: Tuesday night was soccer league (this was great because it was a competitive league so it was a great workout but it was also social), Wednesday was trivia and Thursday was my happy hour day. Mondays were class and Fridays and Saturdays were for whatever I wanted (usually Fridays were low key and Saturdays were going out) and Sundays were for seeing my parents, going food shopping/meal prepping, HW, laundry, cleaning, etc.

    11. OP I’m exhausted reading this thread. You are being a pain in the ass. The class schedule isn’t available. You have the option to attend remotely. The question is asked and answered, people continue to give you truthful advice and you’re not accepting it. Calm down.

        1. The OP accepted the comments that were saying things like wait until Monday, the professor might not be able to tell you info sooner, the professor isn’t being paid until the semester starts. She didn’t accept the comments that were telling her she can’t handle what she clearly stated she’s already been handling for at least a few semesters. People on this board loveeeee to tell people their lived experience isn’t right.

13. Any (Anecdotal or otherwise) advice for ling covid symptoms please?

    I had a very mild covid (low fever lasting 2 weeks plus cough and sore throat) about 6 weeks ago, and went back to work after two weeks. I thought I had gotten better – no more sore throat or fever.

    Unfortunately, a half day at work had me developing a whole host of new symptoms and landed me in the ER: breathlessness, dizziness, facial numbness, pins and needles in hands and feet, extreme fatigue.

    Basic blood works and chest X-ray came back normal, but I am now down for 4+ weeks with extreme fatigue from grocery runs or cooking breakfast, with occasional flare ups in numbness and fairly constant pins and needles.

    I’ve tried to see a neurologist and get access to a post-covid clinic, but because it hadn’t been 3 months yet they are not classifying this as long covid yet, despite the symptoms (I’m in the UK). Neurologist appointments are backed up for months or unreachable, the NHS GP is impossible to reach for a referral, and the private GP just wants me to rest up and see how I am given it’s only been 6 weeks.

    I’m frustrated and struggling to care for myself, plus I recently moved to the UK for my job, so living alone with no family or close friends who can help – and going stir crazy. I’ve put myself on vitamins B, C, D, omega 3, magnesium, and antihistamine (claritin) to little effect so far. Any advice (anecdotal or otherwise) on clinics, treatments to look into with doctors, or supplements etc would be appreciated.

    1. What about just going to a regular doctor? Could be long Covid, but those are all also symptoms of other things too. I wouldn’t self diagnose just because you had Covid.

       1. I think that’s who told her to rest up.

       2. I have seen a few different GPs and a pulmonologist to rule things out, but blood panels are so far coming back clear. Slightly high on iron so it’s not anemia either.

    2. If you are American, can you get in touch with your old doctor in the States?

    3. I have no personal experience with long Covid but there are studies that melatonin has anti-inflammatory properties and can be effective against damage from Covid and other viruses, so I’d add that to your vitamin regimen if you haven’t tried it. Sorry you’re going through this!

    4. Same – find yourself a good primary care doctor. I had to switch mine – the new one has been excellent and recommended a diet and exercise regime that’s basically gotten rid of my symptoms. It’s a HUGE relief.

       1. Can you tell us more about this diet and exercise regime?

       2. OP-Definitely talk to your doc first about exercise. Some studies are showing it can actually make things worse when dealing with long COVID. You need to talk through together whether activity or rest is better for you at this moment.

    5. As someone with several different chronic health conditions that are not long Covid but have some of the same symptoms, I can tell you that treating issues like this is purely a matter of trial and error and the only thing doctors are really good for are prescriptions and lab work or imaging (you do want to rule out other things, but it sounds like you’ve done some of that). Exercise can help or hurt, meds are just a guessing game to see what works. The only thing that seems consistent is that getting good sleep and eating well don’t hurt and often help a lot, but can be hard when you don’t feel well, so working on those are probably a good place to start. After that, reading about other people’s experience online is as likely to help as anything else. There’s no real data available on what helps yet, so anecdotes are all anyone has, just be cautious about trying too many weird supplements- even OTC stuff can cause real problems.

       1. I cosign this. Management of my chronic conditions has been largely about trial and error with diet, exercise, supplements, prioritizing sleep and shifting my sleep schedule, etc. until I figured out what worked for me. I spent a lot of money on diagnostic tests and doctor visits only to be told over and over “we just don’t have good treatment options for this that work for everyone.” I finally decided to just develop “treatment options” for myself, based on research I did and talking to other sufferers, and that has brought me significant relief. I just think that with many chronic conditions, and especially with long Covid, we don’t know enough for doctors to be able to make effective recommendations. I have gotten way more relief from taking charge of my lifestyle than any medication has ever provided me; I understand people’s mileage may vary on that.

       2. Thank you, would you mind sharing what exercises or measures have helped for you (noting that mileage may vary wildly)?

    6. I had a very mild case of long covid in 2020 I think — dizziness, breathlessness, “exercise intolerance” due to fatigue. My eyes were weird too. I did a lot of tests (not neurology, but cardiology, pulmonology, sleep study, lots of bloodwork) and everything came back as normal, which is apparently normal for chronic diseases; the tests aren’t designed to flag those.

       For dizziness those wristbands really helped me – you can also get a dramamine prescription. I had BPPV for part of it, but a lot of it was just weird dizziness out of nowhere. For breathlessness, get an oximeter if you don’t already have one (if you are dark-skinned look for a special one, as they were designed for lighter skin) (sigh) – that will flag for you if you’re really in trouble and give you something to measure.

       If your dizziness comes from standing up, look into POTS.

       Go slowly, be gentle with yourself, get lots of sleep. I believe most LC cases resolve within a year, which isn’t what you want to hear but this hopefully isn’t the rest of your life.

       1. This is me and I am at a year and 8 months of it. I am exhausted all the time and get dizzy every time I stand up. I have a hard time breathing although I still exercise bc otherwise I am miserable. This period has been the first time in my life I have gotten regular headaches too. I also have experienced issues with my vision. No one seems to be able to do anything so I just struggle along hoping it will go away some day. It’s the pits.

          1. I’m so sorry to hear :( thanks for sharing.

    7. How is your blood pressure? I came across a Mayo clinic page that said long COVID is a triumvirate of brain fog, low blood pressure, and body aches. Low blood pressure can be helped by annoyingly focused work on keeping yourself hydrated: 2L of water a day, ideally 1 of which contains oral rehydration salts. Also, piles of protein — like 110+ grams a day — may help. Vital collagen powder and protein bars help with that. It’s a PITA but if it helps, it would be a godsend. Best to you.

       1. I thought long Covid had more to do with high levels of clotting markers and auto-antibodies? The things you listed are symptoms, not causes, and I’ve never heard anyone say those exact three symptoms are required for a long Covid diagnosis. I thought it was just any symptom that lingers for a certain period of time after recovery.

          1. It will be years before there is a single definition for Long COVID.

          2. You’re not wrong. Full article:
             https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/post-covid-symptoms-women-differ-distinctly-from-men/

             Quote I’m referencing:
             The three major symptoms of the women ― fatigue, muscle aches and low blood pressure ― make up what is known as central sensitization syndrome and the core of what is now being called post-COVID syndrome.

       2. Curious, do you have a link to the Mayo paper? Thanks!

          1. Ooops, now I see it. Thanks.

       3. Thanks – my blood pressure is on the low side but that has always been my normal. 60/100 ish.

          1. Got it. Ugh. Best of luck to you. COVID brain fog felt a lot like chemo brain fog to me. Not fun. I’m still getting headaches, but the fog has lifted.
             One other idea: acupuncture can be helpful to brain fog. Is that available where you are?

             1. Thanks – I’ll look into it. I’m from Korea and it m is widely available there, although I’ll have to look up options in the UK.

             2. Best of luck :)

          2. And I would still try the protein. It can really help your body repair cardiovascular damage and inflammation, which I believe is part of the hypothesized cause of both chemo fatigue and COVID brain fog/fatigue.

       4. I’m the OP from above who had a mild case that went away — interestingly I was following a macro-based diet and was trying to eat 130 grams of protein a day and drink 80+ oz of water a day as part of the diet. I’m not sure if that helped alleviate my symptoms or made them go away faster. How funny.

          If you’re going to try, the easiest sources of protein are grilled chicken, protein powder, and whey products like Quest chips and Fairlife shakes. (You can add a full shake to a big coffee tumbler in the morning and it’s kind of nice.) Cottage cheese and greek yogurt are also pretty high in protein.

    8. Have they checked you for blood clots?

       1. Yes, although I suspect at a very high level (ie ‘if you had DVT your oxygen wouldn’t be 99%)

          1. That’s not checking you for clots. I would push for more.

    9. hey i don’t have great advice but i too am struggling with suspected long covid (everything acute ruled out) but my symptoms are GI related, bad insomnia, and also low blood pressure. NEver had any of this pre-my very mild COVID infection. I don’t have specific solutions as I’m still struggling but I am trying: antihistamines (famotidine + allegra), vit d, magnesium, a low histamine probiotic (maybe specific to me because lots of GI issues), acupuncture to stimulate the vagus nerve and herbal medicine. i too have done the battery of tests that all came back “normal” despite my lack of ability to function on the daily and no one can diagnose anything specific

       1. Oof I also developed bad insomnia and always had low blood pressure. Appetite is down but no marked GI issues that I can point to, it’s mostly brain fog + fatigue + neuro symptoms that are getting in the way of my everyday life. I do take 200 billion CFU probiotics on a daily basis though, which may or may not be a factor?

14. Where do you meet other professional women, outside of the general professional development organizations in your industry?

    I’m in a niche industry that is inclusive of women, and industry leaders are probably evenly split male/female though they were almost all male when I started my career. However, I’m not seeing that those who are highly respected leaders in this industry are actively involved in anything but the industry – no kids, no spouse, interests outside of work seem to be work-adjacent. This is not a model that interests me – I like my spouse and kids and intend to keep them around!

    That said, I would really like to connect with other professional women in a similar phase of life. Are there any organizations you have found useful for this? Do I just need to try harder to find these people in my huge national industry organization? Is this what the Junior League is for, and would it matter that I’m closer to senior than junior (early 40s)? Thanks for your thoughts!

    1. Following with interest – I’m the same age range and also like my spouse and kid! I think the past few years have made this even more difficult, but I feel like it’s time to figure out how to navigate networking and general professional development again, and in a sustainable and enjoyable way. I was an active Junior League volunteer pre-kid, which was also while I was in my first (more flexible time-wise) career, but haven’t found a good way to re-engage yet. I imagine it’s very specific by location / League size and focus areas. Looking forward to hearing what has been successful for others!

    2. Try mentoring. There are women just starting in their careers who could use your perspective. And if you join a mentoring program you’ll also connect with other mentors. Does your workplace offer this, or do you have a professional organization that has a program?

15. I’m in a field where a lot of people are freelancers. I currently work for a consulting company. I still get some of these freelancer offers just through word of mouth or email lists etc. if they are big enough I’ll bring it to my company, but if it’s a small side project can I just do it? I guess it’s like a second job. It wouldn’t be a conflict of interest with clients.

    1. Highly depends on your company’s policies. I work for a university and our employee policy requires we disclose every side gig that compensates us (even if we’re not compensated in cash) regardless of whether or not it has anything to do with the university. I had a freelance writing job that literally paid me $25 that I disclosed. I collaborated with a county in my town to advertise them on social media, and the only thing they gave me was some restaurant and activity gift certificates, and I disclosed that. You get the idea. It’s a pain to fill out the paperwork for all this stuff but better than the alternative of violating a written policy and leaving yourself vulnerable to termination.

       1. +2 I have to disclose everything, even volunteer and pro bono activities so for me this is a no.

       2. +3. Your company should have a policy that includes a disclosure threshold. Sometimes that’s zero, other places in more like thousands. Violating the disclosure policy can get you fired in some industries.

       3. Same here. I have to disclose everything big and small.

    2. Can you just do it? Probably not. I would bet your employer has a policy about that. If it’s the same kind of work they pay you to do, I doubt they’d be okay with it, but who knows. You should definitely check.

       1. I’m in consulting and this would be a huge no-no at every place I’ve ever worked – a fireable offense.

16. Curious how others in retail deserts handle online shopping. There is a mall 45 minutes away from me that has the standard workwear stores. Yet I rarely go there because it’s a big time commitment and order online instead. Is this foolish from the perspective of being able to try things on and avoid the return roulette of online ordering?

    My college town used to have decent shopping options for workwear but it’s dwindled to basically a regional department store that’s hit or miss, a Talbots (skews heavily toward the elderly pieces rather than carrying work basics), and a WHBM.

    1. I’m in a similar situation, plus I need petite sizes, which are rarely in stores. That means I pretty much have to buy online, but I got so sick of the returns that now I just don’t buy much at all and mostly just buy from a handful of brands that are most likely to fit. Luckily, WFH means I can get away with a lot of leggings and joggers, which are a lot easier to fit than business clothes.

    2. Also in a college town without many ‘fancy’ stores but I’m not a fancy person and mostly shop at Old Navy, Target, Talbots and H&M (all of which my town has). But honestly I vastly prefer online ordering and I don’t think it’s foolish. I do returns in person to save the cost of return shipping. But I feel like online shopping has better sales, better selection and saves me a ton of time versus going to stores to browse in person.

    3. I live in an outer borough of NYC and if I want to go shopping on a weekend I usually take the train in to Manhattan, which takes around 45 minutes, so that doesn’t seem strange to me. I think it’s absolutely worth it to try on things in person and see what things look like — I often love stuff in the store that didn’t catch my eye online. I only order online if a store doesn’t have a physical presence or if my size it out of stock in store.

    4. I lived in a small town and would sometimes ride the bus for 1-2 hours to get to even smaller towns for sports. My academic team coach (who was a clotheshorse) would look out the window and mutter, “where do these people buy their SHOES???”

       Anyway, the answer to your question depends on your personal preferences and how often you buy clothes. If I didn’t have access to stores but I did have access to say, a UPS store that made returns easy, I’d do online shopping rather than going to the mall.

    5. I live in a mid-sized city that still has one pretty decent mall, but the Nordstrom closed and the other stores never have my size in stock. A couple of times a year I’ll trek 2+ hours to the Big Mall on the outskirts of the Big City and inevitably find something I need that I missed in my on-line searches or wasn’t available on line.

    6. FWIW, I think you can return Talbots pieces in-store. I live in a place with endless retail, but end up ordering a lot of stuff online because I work in a fairly formal place and there just isn’t a lot of selection in-person. Zappos is probably the best for returns in terms of accuracy/speed.

    7. Why is it foolish to use what works for you? I have decent in store options near me, but it’s a crapshoot as to whether my size will be stock. I have noticed that stores have been keeping fewer and fewer sizes in stores even pre-pandemic. So, if they don’t want me ordering online, they should make sure their stores are fully stocked.

       I order almost all my clothing online, and usually do 2 sizes of things like pants or fitted dresses (I am pretty confident about the size I need for tops). I order enough to get free shipping, although I will pay to ship things back. I try the things on and either mail back or take back to the store the things I don’t want. It’s not hard.

       And I’m sure people are going to come here and pontificate about how this is “bad for the environment” but I think most consumer activities are such a small part of this compared to the big players that I really don’t care. I’m also not sure it’s worse for me to get stuff from a truck that’s driving other people’s stuff around too, vs. me driving from store to store to try to find what I need.

       1. In general, research actually suggests that the environmental impact of online shopping is roughly comparable to in person, and sometimes even better, as long as you don’t choose super fast delivery. The problem is really with returns. I’m so appalled by the fact that returns are either thrown away or sold to liquidators, that I now have a much harder time stomaching frequent returns. I posted above that I still buy most stuff online because they don’t carry petites in stores and I live somewhere with minimal shopping options, but I’ve really cut back on buying stuff at all because of the returns issue (which is probably the real environmental win). I really wish it was possible to handle returns better and be more consistent with sizing and descriptions so that it wouldn’t be such a big problem. Like you say, cutbacks in stores really mean there aren’t in person options for a lot of people, so there has to be a better solution.

    8. For workwear I have better luck online shopping, as stores often don’t have all sizes.

    9. I live in NoVA and have access to basically any women’s store I want (except those that don’t sell in this region, like Dillard’s). I shop online almost exclusively because why would I want to sit in traffic and drive all over creation and look for parking and schlep inside and they don’t have my size and schlep back out and sit in traffic when I can click, click, click my sizes straight to my door?

       1. I drove through Tysons only twice when I lived in NoVA and it was a straight-up nightmare.

    10. I have lots of stores in our town but very few ‘workwear’ stores. I typically take time on work trips to pop into the ‘big’ city malls/stores OR will try to round up some friends to meet me/go with me when I head into the city. I also sometimes order online and then return in the store – our local JCrew/Talbots only have the ‘ladies who lunch/weekend wear’ stuff in stores but sometimes I’ll find some lucky item when I return the things I order online.

    11. I’m plus sized and online shopping is my only option, despite living in a very urban area. Solidarity.

17. What are your thoughts on 2 page resumes? I’m only 3 years out from grad school, but I’ve had some short term jobs and an internship I’d like to keep on (all normal in my field, like contract work) and it’s getting tough to fit in one page

    1. Can you trim other stuff since these short term items are priority? Don’t list any responsibilities from the jobs, don’t list any coursework, don’t bullet out lists of things like skills. Tighten up your formatting/header. If you’re still doing an objective statement, get rid of it. That kind of thing.

       1. I think this is the way to go, rather than move to 2 pages. Cut down or completely eliminate the bullet points on some stuff to fit it all on.

    2. Mine is 2 pages but very nicely formatted. Job searched end of last year with it and got tons of interviews and was complimented on my resume by several. I’m in law and have been in it for just under 10 years, though I had another professional career prior. 2 pages is totally fine, imo.

    3. I’m a certified professional resume writer (yes, that is a thing!), and the modern trend is 1.5-2 pages. Just make sure everything you’re including is adding value and relevant to the jobs you’re seeking right now (e.g., part-time barista job in undergrad can go).

       1. I review a lot of resumes for tech and wince at anything over 1 page (though formatting and readability matters more). What industry do you write resumes for?

          1. I’ve reviewed resumes for hiring in tech and other industries and no one bats an eye at a 2-page resume. It helps if things like education, technical skills, software packages used, etc. are on the first page. But I’ve never, ever heard a hiring manager say “ugh, two pages! I can’t read that! Forget this person.” Maybe it’s different at Amazon, since y’all are, shall we say, notorious for being “different” in what you look for in candidates?

             1. Oh of course not. We’re not going to discard you! We also pass along people with grammatical errors if the skills appear to be there (lots of second language speakers). It’s just a bit more of a pain to read and makes me wonder if you know how to synthesize and prioritize, which I may flag for further evaluation. The vast, vast majority of resumes I review are one page.

          2. I work with clients across all industries. I think a couple of things have led to this change. First, most big companies use ATS to scan resumes and job postings tend to be very lengthy. Applicants need to include enough keywords to get flagged as relevant by ATS, so they spend time explaining their past roles and accomplishments in terms of the job posting qualifications and typically include a “key skills” section too. Second, the modern trend is to skip an objective statement but include a brief career profile / professional summary. 2-3 lines explaining what you bring to the table.

             So the the top third of page 1 gets taken up by the summary and skills before you even get to professional experience.

       2. I’ve started to hear this, which is why I asked!

    4. Two years out? One page.

       I’m 15 years into my career and have 1.5 pages and it’s plenty.

       1. How many different jobs have you had? That makes a huge difference.

       2. Yep, sorry, you’re too junior to have a resume that exceeds one page. Seeing a long resume from someone just starting out tells me they have a hard time prioritizing, editing, and broadly determining what’s important — these are red flags for me about an applicant’s future performance.

          Two possible ways of handling that I like seeing:

          – a line at the bottom that reads “Information regarding additional internships available upon request.”

          – a list at the bottom that says something like “Additional positions with Employer X, Employer Y, and Employer Z.”

       3. Yeah, 3 years out, you should be able to keep it to a page.

          Edit for each type of job rather than trying to include All The Things from All The Jobs for every application.

       4. I agree. Thinking you need two pages with as little experience as you have can come across as self important to a reviewer/interviewer. Keep it to a page. Drop off little jobs that aren’t relevant.

    5. Put the contract work under one header:

       Description of your work – e.g., Executive Compensation Consultant
       Companies – e.g., Acme, Smith Co., Jones Co., 2019 – 2022
       Bullet points of what you did at those companies

       Otherwise, it’s just repetitive to say that you were an Executive Compensation Consultant at Acme, where you did X, Y, and Z; then you were an ECC at Smith, where you did X, Y, and Z; then you did the same thing at Jones.

    6. I’m 10 years post-MBA, so most of my old classmates have 10-15 years of relevant experience. I’d say that now, a lot of people have 1.5-2 page resumes. 5 years ago (last time I job searched), my old classmates were mostly sticking with 1 page.

    7. I don’t really care if you have a two page resume but don’t count on me to detail read anything on that second page, as I am solidly skimming after reading the first half page.

       1. Ah, this is a better description than my take above.

18. Does anyone else regularly feel overwhelmed by the volume of incoming communication? I receive so many emails (work and personal), texts, Teams chats, and phone calls that I feel overwhelmed by having to deal with it all, so I put off the lower-priority ones. Of course I can’t ignore work communications, so this means I wind up being unreasonably slow to respond to a portion of my personal texts and emails, which I feel bad about. Then because I feel bad I avoid dealing with them, and they pile up. I would like to break out of this cycle, most importantly because I want my friends and family to feel like a priority, but also because I’m tired of feeling low-key stressed and guilty about it. So I guess my real questions are 1. How normal/abnormal is this, and 2. Has anyone ever dealt with this or something similar and can offer some advice?

    1. Yes for sure. My solution is to turn all my notifications off except for certain texts and phone calls on my personal devices, and on my work devices I only allow notifications for Skype messages and phone calls. I check emails and texts for work on a periodic basis. Outside of normal business hours, I do not respond to anything work related and I do not have my work phone with ne (in-house counsel for reference). I just had a stellar midyear review so this does not seem to be an issue (I’ve been doing it for years) I took all the social media apps on my phone and only go them occasionally on a browser. My friends and family all understand that responses come when they can for non-urgent things and sometimes not at all. It’s not been an issue. We all prioritize our own mental health, however that looks for each of us.

       1. +1 this is what I do except I don’t have a separate work/personal device. I don’t have work e-mail on my phone (exec director level position) – just my calendar. Occasionally I’ll turn it on when I want to check and see if something specific has come through, but what I found was that looking at e-mail on my phone in off-hours was not only ruining my free time, but also unproductive (usually I’d just ruminate over the e-mail but not actually want to/be able to do a full response on my phone so I’d just keep thinking about it). Now if I want to work in the evening/weekends, I have to actually pull up my laptop. I’ve also basically told everyone I work with that I a) hate talking on the phone and b) am in meetings like 90% of the day, so to please never call me and just e-mail/text instead. In my experience, 99.9% of the time someone wants to talk on the phone rather can scheduling a meeting/e-mailing is because they want to complain at me for 30 minutes and I’m not doing that e-motional labor for everyone just because I’m the lone female senior person in my office. So when people call me and ask me to call them back I just shoot them a text asking what they need or send them an e-mail. I’ve been at my company for 7 years with glowing reviews and just got a promotion with a 30% bump in salary so if this sounds like overly aggressive boundary setting, it hasn’t been a problem for me so far.

          For personal e-mails/texts – can you set aside 30 minutes each day (like actually block your calendar) to reply to those? That way when you’re stressing you can say “okay, I know I’ll be responding to those at 10:30?” I also use the pomodoro technique and usually use my 5 minute breaks to talk a way, text people back, call and make that doctors appointment, etc.

          1. OMG I hate people who won’t talk on the phone ever. I’m not going to spend days emailing back and forth about something that could be handled in a 5 minute phone call.

             1. yeah, YMMV on this strategy. I agree that asking people to state the reason they want to chat is reasonable, though!

             2. Honestly, this is never why people want to call me. And if someone says “can we hop on the phone to talk about xyz” then OBVIOUSLY I say yes. And obviously I talk to my immediate bosses and a few other key people on the phone all the time. I’m talking about unscheduled calls out of the blue from people who I barely work with (99% of the time it’s men junior to me who treat me like I work for them) who are always trying to oversell me on something because they think it will give them an advantage or who want to complain ad nauseum about the most minor non-issues (or it’s HR who is calling to ask an extremely simple question which absolutely could be an e-mail – but they never say what the question is in the text or voicemail, it’s just “we need to talk can you call me?” when I’m in the middle of eight straight hours of meetings).

    2. Yes, I totally relate to this. Phone calls, Teams calls, emails, Teams chats, email notifications that I’ve been tagged in a comment bubble in a document, texts … it’s too much. I turn off all of my outlook notifications except the tiny envelope that appears on the task bar at the bottom of the screen and I mute all Teams group chats – people have learned that I don’t check those chats and they either need to chat, email, or call me directly. I also resist the urge to respond to emails immediately unless it really requires it. I still feel like there’s too much work communication and my strategies don’t always work but they do help some.

    3. That’s a sign for me that my depression isn’t well managed.

       1. +1

       2. +1 Avoiding answering people is one of the biggest signs I’m in a bad place. Once, I actually went over ignored texts and e-mails with my therapist. However, we don’t know anything about OP, so I would apply the strategies above first (especially scheduling a specific time to answer – for me it’s during my bus commute), before bringing in the professionals.

    4. I turned off my notifications for an event I was running in college in 2015 and haven’t turned them on since.

       1. I tuned mine off last August and haven’t looked back. Hadn’t had email on my phone the two years prior, either. Promoted Q3 2021.

    5. I deal with this often. No real advice, but just know that you’re not alone. Thankfully, a lot of my close friends also deal with this so we’ve just had explicit conversations about it (“hey, please know that I’m not ignoring you, I’m just overwhelmed with ——“) which helps, but still doesn’t solve the problem.

    6. Since I’ve been planning my wedding, I’ve gotten into the habit of doing a half hour of “computer time” in the evenings. I sit with my laptop and phone and respond to personal messages and deal with any “computer errands” and research things that need researching, and add things to my personal calendar, etc. I’m definitely going to keep this habit at least a couple of times a week post-wedding because I’ve been feeling soooo much more on top of everything going on in my life since I started doing this — I now never miss an email or call.

       That said, I generally ignore personal emails and texts during the workday unless its time sensitive or I’m having a slow day at work (like today lol).

19. I got an offer on a job I’m excited for but the pay is super low. About to negotiate and would love some good vibes from the group!

    1. Sending all the good vibes!!

    2. Congrats! Good luck :)

    3. Vibes vibes vibes!!

    4. Yay! Sending good vibes!

    5. You’ve got this! Congrats on the offer :):)

    6. You can do it!!

    7. VIBES!!!

    8. Fantastic! Sending all the vibes for a successful negotiation!

    9. Good vibes to you! I went through this last year, and for me knowing my worth and that the low offer wasn’t reflective of market rate helped me to decide that the job that seemed great wasn’t the right one for me (after attempting negotiation and not making much progress). I hope it works out, and if not that the right job comes along soon!

20. I spent sometime this weekend with an acquaintance who is just such a positive person, without being annoying/engaging in toxic positivity. She’s just like honesty grateful for every little thing and nice and caring. Id kinda cynical and sarcastic and not naturally like her. Id like to shift my mindset to be more like hers (I know some of it is inherently my personality but I can definitely be happier/grateful). Has anyone been able to shift their mindset like this?

    1. I had a phase where I reframed things as I get to rather than I have to. Like I have legs that work and I’m healthy so I get to go for a run rather than I have to go for a run. I have a job in a field I like so I get to do xyz assignment rather than I have to.

       In the interest of full disclosure: it was VERY shortlived because I was working in public health and I tried to do this in April 2020 so it quickly became a joke between my coworkers and I with things like I get to work 10 straight 12 hour days in a row, I get to only make 55k for a job that requires a masters during a global pandemic, I get to work in person with limited PPE and have frequent Covid exposures.

       1. I saw a video about setting an “intention” for whatever you want to do, even small things. “My intention is to get a latte”. “My intention is to go on a run today”. It is a little bit towards the reframing it as “I get”, and it feels more empowering, but yes avoids the “I get to work during a pandemic”

       2. This is also what works for me – “I get to” rather than “I have to.” I have so many injuries from high school and college running that it’s a miracle that I still can run, even though I’m no longer a track star. That’s something to be grateful for. I’ve been through awful bouts of underemployment, so a job is always something I’m happy about.

          On the flip side, when people try to “toxic positivity” me through bad times, I get quite growly. I’m in my early 40s – I’ve seen good times, I’ve seen bad times, and I can tell the difference. Sorry for those who can’t….

    2. I have a friend like this. It’s honestly a big part of why we became good friends because she is just a truly genuine person. Things I have picked up from her I try to implement in my naturally cynical/sarcastic nature – assuming good intentions of the other person in a scenario, celebrating small wins for yourself and other people (finishing your grad school semester/finishing a big work project/getting a new job all deserve a hey that’s awesome for you, lets get drinks or coffee to celebrate!), the person doing that thing you don’t agree with isn’t doing it AT you, and taking time to specifically be grateful for things. That might be a journal, it might be just slowing down at some point in the day to mentally acknowledge it.

       Also from therapy – lowering your expectations of yourself and often others. I don’t mean let it all go, but you don’t have to be perfect and constantly achieving, and people around you will mess up occasionally. Learning to not take that personally was a huge step for me.

    3. Hang out with her more. And make more friends like that. And try to be that person for others. Eliminate time with negative people or at least resist the urge to bond with them by complaining.

    4. I am your friend. I was raised to be grateful by my mom who has gratitude for everything. DH’s BFF says gratitude is my superpower. Perhaps, then, my perspective isn’t going to be terribly helpful. But I’ll put it out there anyway.
       I would suggest starting small. As you sit reading this s-te right now, think of three things from your day today that you are grateful for. For me, I would list the women I find here and their advice, commiseration, and humor; I could afford to buy my coffee on my way to the office this morning and saw the people in the coffee shop who I recognize and enjoy saying hi to; and I have a job (even if it isn’t my dream job, it pays my bills and so I don’t have financial stress). I think positive the things that are normal in our daily lives are easy to overlook because they’re just normal to us, but they’re actually things we can be grateful for. One way to see how not ordinary those things are is to compare your life to a sterotypical woman’s life in a country like Afganistan. She would be amazed to have the things and freedoms that we have and that we take for granted.
       One other thing I’ve started doing is giving gifts to people at random times when they’re unexpected, and that is bringing so much joy to me. A coworker bought a new house, so I left a card with a giftcard to Lowes on her desk. Another friend is supporting a husband and best friend who are both in cancer treatment, so I dropped off a Starbucks gift card in her mailbox with a supportive note. People love these small, unexpected surprises, they convey a message that I care about them and know what’s going on in their lives, and they bring joy to me (far more than giving the obligatory Christmas gift).

       1. I used to feel this way, got very beaten down by the pandemic.

          Reading this was wonderful! A playbook about how to get back to the person I am/want to be.

       2. I feel the same about small unexpected gifts! So much fun.

21. I used to love the She Makes Money Moves podcast and Ive been trying to get into The Money with Katie show, but I dont love her style. Any money/financial/budgeting podcasts aimed at millennial women (I cant stand broey ones) that assume the listener is somewhat intelligent and competent?

    1. I love the Her Money podcast (heard about it here!).

    2. HerMoney with Jean Chatsky.

    3. jill on money!! and eye on money, which is jill’s other show. she’s so great. paula pant with afford anything. i also like ‘her money’ and to a lesser extent farnoosh’s show (so money).

22. Anyone have problems with feeling like they put more into friendships than they receive? It was my birthday yesterday and my best friends in the city I live in (we’re mid-20s) didn’t get me birthday presents (or anything other than texts in the morning). For both of their birthdays, I got them fairly thoughtful $50-ish range gifts and spent at least a day working on their celebrations with our friend groups (i.e., cooking elaborate birthday dinners and baking elaborately decorated cakes). I’m having a birthday dinner on Saturday with two of them (one can’t make it), but it’s a lot more low-effort than the celebrations they requested, so won’t require the same labor of them that they sort of expected of me.

    I’m having trouble not being resentful. I feel like I know now that I am going to “drop the ball” on birthdays going forward, and not get presents or do anything past a card or text. But I do just feel annoyed and a bit unappreciated by the whole thing, and like I resent them for not being the types of friends I wanted or willing to just put in the same level of investment shown around small things.

    1. I know how you feel because I can be the same way. Basically the answer is to stop putting in so much effort in terms of material things.

    2. Stop giving your friends gifts and keep it to a greeting. I’m not saying to do this out of spite. I’m saying your friend group doesn’t want to exchange gifts, and that is ok.

       As I’ve gotten older, fewer and fewer of my friends exchange gifts. It’s truly the thought that counts, and I’d rather just hear from someone that they thought of me on my birthday vs receiving a gift I have little or no use for.

       Sorry about the hurt feelings, and happy birthday from me!

       1. Haha this is what I meant, only in way fewer words!

    3. Yikes! That’s gotta sting!

       A few thoughts:

       1. People have different strengths. Maybe your friends are not dinner-makers and cake-bakers, but show their appreciation in other ways? (Or maybe not, but it’s worth a think-about.)
       2. It sounds like you really went above and beyond any reasonable call of friend duty for them. Just because they requested it doesn’t mean you have to provide it. It’s perfectly okay to say “wow, that sounds great but no can do.” Which I’m certain you will do going forward so, lesson learned.
       3. If this is a recurring issue, then maybe you should consider looking into whether you are doing too much and might profitably cut back both your effort and your expectations.

       And happy belated birthday and I hope Saturday turns out to be fun!

    4. this doesn’t sound like they don’t care, more a communications or assumptions on expectations issue.

       Like – based on how your friends handle their birthdays in your group, it seems like you should have spoken up with the type of celebration you wanted? Or, is it possible when they made their own requests they were thinking “let’s cook something fun at home” would be inexpensive and chill, rather than intending it to be a complicated whole thing?

    5. I think your expectations around birthdays as an adult are way out of whack. What you’re doing for your friends is very nice but most people don’t put that much effort into adult birthdays. They are not dropping the ball, they’re doing what is perfectly normal and nice.

       1. Also I want to add that if you go above and beyond to do something for a friend that does not create some kind of unspoken contract where they have to return the favor in the exact same way.

          1. This.

    6. That’s a lot. I’ve been married for 10 years and I doubt I’ve spent $50 on birthday gifts for my husband in that entire time! We usually make or go out for a nicer than usual dinner, but that’s about it, and I certainly don’t expect anything other than greetings or a card from friends. Even when I was single, dinner with friends was about the most I ever did, nothing that required more than a couple hours. Different people have different preferences and expectations, but yours seem much different than your friends, and it doesn’t mean that they don’t care about you. If you enjoy doing this for your friends, do it for yourself, but don’t feel bad if other people don’t enjoy doing the same.

    7. One of my closest friends never acknowledges my birthday, not even a text or email. Not even a Facebook wall post back when everyone did that. For a long time, I was kind of resentful about it. And then I realized she shows up for me in other ways – she went out of her way to attend life events like weddings and baby showers, she got me an incredibly thoughtful wedding gift, she has offered to drop everything and come help me during a family member’s medical crisis, etc. Once I thought about what a good friend she is in so many other ways, it was easier to let go of that one little thing, which doesn’t really matter. (Also we both had kids and started giving each others’ kids gifts, which makes the adult birthdays feel less important somehow).

       I agree with others though that the “normal” thing for adult birthdays is just a greeting, and getting a gift or organizing a celebration is above and beyond. I’ve only gotten gifts for my closest friend (who is like a sister to me) and I don’t do it every year, just when I happen to have a good idea for a gift for her.

    8. Birthday gifts for adults are weird. A text is nice.

    9. Just some perspective, I’m in my early 40s. I love, love, love my friends and I put a ton of effort into other things (sometimes definitely more than I get). And yet… I don’t exchange presents with a single friend on birthdays. I actually don’t know anyone that does that I’m aware of, beyond a nice bottle of wine if there is a get together. I think you will find that this just fades out with time. Life is long, and the idea of coming up with a new gift for the same people year in and year out (beyond maybe immediate family where for some this is very ingrained) just feels impossible to me. Also friendships ebb and flow, so there would be this constant decision tree of “gee, I made this new friend this past year and I actually see them more than (x friend that I always give a gift to). Should I now give new friend a gift?” You can see how you multiply that times a few new friends and some ebb and flow years of seeing specific friends and it just become unmanageable.
       And there will come a time soon, if not already, when they (and you) have ALL of the stuff and very particular tastes not conducive to gift receiving.
       Happy late birthday, and sorry it made you feel crummy.

       1. This is so spot-on.

          And fun fact: I’m in my 60s and people are starting to have parties for big birthdays (60, 65, 70, etc) and even though they generally say “no gifts,” they always end up with a giant stash of wine along with a few boxes of nice chocolate.

    10. I agree with the other posters, but if giving gifts IS the norm for your friend group is it not possible that they’re bringing them for birthday dinner this weekend?

        1. Thank you for your feedback everyone! I agree with you all, and I think part of what has made me resentful is that I haven’t wanted to put so much into other people’s birthdays, but the expectation has been there externally. There was one weekend I had to spend at least 8 hours cooking/baking when I didn’t really want to, and was pressured by the friends when I said that I had plans with family over the weekend to cancel. Another time I was away on a roadtrip over one of the friend’s birthdays, and she gave me the silent treatment (ish) for a day because she was upset about me being gone (in spite of giving her a $50 gift and card before I left).

           I’ve felt a lot of pressure to make a big thing out of their birthdays, and it’s been kind of exhausting and is stressful every time it comes up. My resentment mostly comes from the feeling that “I was allowed to just not do anything this whole time??” since they’ve dropped the ball on mine.

           Do you guys think in the future that I could truly opt out? Like just say that I’m too busy to cook an elaborate meal or arrange my life around the birthdays whenever they came up, or not get gifts, and not have to feel bad about it? I would 1000% prefer that to having to get gifts or celebrate, and really have never felt attachment to my own birthday.

           1. You are absolutely allowed not to do elaborate presents and preparations! Though on the presents, I’d wait until after your birthday dinner to decide. If presents are common in your group (they are in mine), I think people will probably bring theirs to the dinner!

              But for decorating cakes and cooking huge meals, I think you can opt out of that from now on. If the birthday person is asking you to (ouch!) you can say something like, “I can’t do that this year.” I bake a lot and have had lots of people ask for baked goods who I’m not close to, or when I just don’t have time. I’ll just tell them I can’t. For close friends, I’ve come up with a few things that are easy/ don’t take much time (frozen cookie dough or a pavlova) and will bring those items for times when I don’t feel like doing anything elaborate.

              It’s hard to say no, but you absolutely can and should if it’s wearing on you. The boundary setting does get easier with time.

           2. With this context be prepared for them to give you the silent treatment on their birthdays and eventually stop talking to you. I was the one who always went above and beyond, as soon as I stopped to make our friendship more equal they distanced themselves.

           3. Yes, just opt out. If you really want to do something more, write a nice birthday card (I like to doodle in them) and call it a day. Honestly, the older I get, I really don’t need anything other than spending time with people and cards are a nice way to remember that, esp if we end up moving away from each other.

           4. Emma, I can’t believe any of your friends gave you the silent treatment! That’s just not okay. Blegh. Are these newish friends? I had to try 2-3 friend circles in my 20s to find one that wasn’t stressful like this.

              1. OMG no silent treatment.

                 I had one friend give me the silent treatment a few years ago (ironically for something she though I’d done which I hadn’t even) and I sat her down and told her I was a grown-a$$ woman and I had agency to make decisions even if she didn’t like them (even though I hadn’t done the thing in this case, I reserved the right to do it in the future), and if she wanted to talk about it we could talk about it, but the silent treatment was a friendship dealbreaker. She sort of apologized but honestly the friendship has never been the same.

                 Honestly your friends sound awful and you might want to upgrade.

        2. This is a good point. I think the gift-giving expectation is ridiculous, but I wouldn’t give up hope until the birthday dinner is over.

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