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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 228 Comments · by

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Skirt Suit

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. blue skirt suitHere's a nice budget skirt suit: both pieces can be had for less than $100 over at Lord & Taylor. I'd probably wear the pieces as separates (think black pants and a light blue blouse with the blazer, or a simple gray turtleneck and red brooch with the blue skirt, black tights and pumps), but then again colorful suits have come a long way. It's still available in sizes 6-16. It was $280, but is now marked to $99; use code FINAL to take another 20% off. TAHARI ARTHUR S. LEVINE 2-Piece Skirt Suit Here's a similar skirt suit (on a similar sale) in plus sizes. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-3)

Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

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Comments

  2. Shredding containers

    Wow, this suit is kind of shockingly bright – not sure I would wear it, but probably others could pull it off!

    My husband and I currently store papers that need to be shredded in an ugly plastic garbage bag. I’d like to find a tall, slim container instead and would prefer something attractive like a straw trash can. It’d be great if it had a lid and a letter slot. Does anyone have recommendations for where I could find something like this? I’ve done a quick search at Target and The Container Store and haven’t really seen anything fitting this description. TIA!

  3. MJ

    PSA – J Crew’s final sale is on…40-60% off the sale price, so some really great deals. I just picked up a No. 2 Wool Pencil in a color I don’t yet own (navy). Happy hunting.

    • another psa

      Also, Loft has 40% off regular-priced items, and 60% off of sale. In case you don’t get spammed by their emails . . .

  4. Cream Tea

    My initial response to suit was “Wow – what? Oh my god.” But it’s nice – just a very, very bold statement.

    • Anonymous

      I think if I practiced in a resort-y place, I could rock this suit with a white blouse and some fun non-black shoes.

      Some pieces don’t work so well with black after all (says someone who owns about 75% gray / black work items).

  5. Anon

    Just got out a floor length mirror that’s been behind a door for months. My seven month old puppy is completely traumatized after getting into a serious barking match with the dog in the mirror. She was cowering the corner and would not even eat her breakfast (which is not normal).

    Any tips for desensitizing your dog to mirrors? Puppy does not even begin to understand the dog in the mirror is her. She’s never clung to me harder.

    • lawsuited

      She will probably learn to avoid the mirror. My cat gets scared when I spray hairspray of dry shampoo (the hissing of the can sounds like I’m hissing at her, I think) and now when she sees me pick up the can she runs out of the room!

    • Anonymous

      treat training and clicker training while in front of the mirror might work. you’re going to need to work with her though. My puppy was deathly scared of balloons, and we had to work with her slowly with treats before she could be in the same room with a balloon. My older dog was also super scared of water. He doesn’t LOVE his baths now, but he tolerates them without shaking, wimpering and tucking his tail. Lots of treats, soothing words and clickers. They are both very food motivated.

    • Anonymous

      I would just give it time. Maybe stand in the mirror next to her so she understands you’re there too. My cat as a kitten and my dog as a puppy had a very brief reaction to seeing themselves in the mirror and then very quickly got over it because they realized that whatever is in the mirror has no scent and therefore is irrelevant to them. I’m not saying do nothing if this continues but I would give your dog a chance to just figure this one out.

    • (Former) Clueless Summer

      Agreed that your dog will figure it out. My puppy had brief reactions to the mirror the first time he saw himself, but he hasn’t had an issue since he was pretty young (even with the 4 mirrored closet doors in the bedroom). They figure it out.

  6. lsw

    I must be some kinda weirdo, but I quite like this skirt! Would also probably wear as separates, mainly because wearing suits are a relatively rare occurrence in my office.

  7. Anon

    I’m hoping someone might have some job advice.

    I’m a junior biglaw associate and I can’t take the hours, unpredictability, and unfriendliness of this job anymore. I’m looking for a job with 40-50 hours per week, predictable schedule, and nice colleagues. Does such a job exist? If you’ve left biglaw (or any other demanding legal job) because you couldn’t take the lifestyle, (1) what type of job did you go to and (2) how did you find the job?

    I’d appreciate any advice!

    • anon

      In a word, government. Yes, you will have to take a huge pay cut. But if you are considering having children, it may be the most viable alternative to no pay at all.

    • TBK

      You can go pretty much anywhere else and get those things. How long have you been in your job, and what do you do (corporate, litigation, etc.)? Also, where do you live and are you set on staying there? Other options besides big law include: smaller firms, in-house, government (fed pays best, but states and municipalities have lawyers, too), non-profit, professional organizations, judicial clerkship (either term or permanent), academia (although the market is rough, and has gotten rougher, and needs a top school and grades). While some smaller firms still have unpredictable and long hours, and any workplace can have cr@ppy culture, almost anywhere is likely to be an improvement if that’s all you’re looking for. What you give up is the money, the support (no more dropping a binder off at 1:00am and expecting a dozen copies on someone’s desk in another city by 8:00am — but then you won’t need that), and, in some cases, the prestige. But totally a doable transition and one that pretty much every big law associate makes at some point (except for the 1 or 2 % who actually make partner).

      • Sydney Bristow

        If you’re in NYC, I know some of the city’s agencies pay lawyers pretty well. Especially after you’ve been there a few years. Not big law rates but better than I would have guessed.

        Public employee salaries are also generally public information. You could look them up to see if it is feasible for you.

        • Anonymous

          And the benefits! My friend who became a judge around age 30 gets a crazy good pension after 20 years with amazing health care benefits, insurance, long term care insurance etc… The value of this with the security of retiring early is worth several million dollars equivalent in savings. She is incredibly psyched, loves her job, worked part time including telecommuting when her kids were young, and I am…..so so jealous!

    • Anonymous

      Are you in litigation?

      I have done clerkship (loved), boutique (loved the practice, didn’t see myself there long-term and wasn’t but had great experience and lots of responsibility), BigCity BigLaw (but lower end of AmLaw 100), BigCity BigLaw (upper end of AmLaw 100; hated in the middle and at the end due to what you are experiencing); regional Law (very 10-7 and generally flexible, worked pre-kids); and back to BigLaw (mad hell due to small kids; would otherwise be very nice).

      It helps so, so much to be doing transactional work. But it is so firm/group/office/direct supervisor specific. Start lunching with your friends who are happy at their firms and doing informational interviews . . . My moves after my first were at the invitation of others I knew through work and/or firm mergers.

      • Ems

        “It helps so, so much to be doing transactional work. But it is so firm/group/office/direct supervisor specific.”

        I used to be midsized regional in NYC but am now biglaw and I LOVE it. It is so dependent on the practice group leadership and also on who you work with. I generally love all of my partners and coworkers and especially love the partner I do a lot of work for.

        Found it through talking to friends who enjoyed their job.

    • In-House Europe

      In-House. I literally applied to one job that fit my qualifications (I have some pretty odd qualifications, as you can guess from my name) and transferred in-house.

      Obviously, you are going to take a pay cut. Have you paid off your student loans and outstanding debts? Then get thee on the interwebs!

      • MarieC

        Even if you haven’t, get thee some happiness. I moved from lower end AmLaw 100 in a big city to federal government. About week two in I suffered from a slight case of FOMO. But I haven’t looked back since. The lifestyle change is an intangible HUGE benefit that more than makes up for the salary deficit. Of course, make sure you take a job that you can still pay your bills. But don’t wait until you pay off loans to do so. It’s not worth that wait. That’s not say other places aren’t without their quirks. But, I can seriously handle the best of government’s weirdness any day, because everyday at 5pm, I’m done. No late night working, emails, stress, anxiety… Sometimes in the morning I forget what I was working on the previous night. It’s amazing.

        • anon

          Are these jobs generally on usajobs? I’ve been tracking USA jobs for a year and a half in my city and have yet to see a federal job that I qualify for. I’m wondering where these elusive government jobs are! (Live in one of the top 6 largest cities in the country, so you’d think there would be some…)

          • MarieC

            USA jobs is the only official place that federal jobs are posted and all hiring has to go through it (with some very very small exceptions). I would imagine you’ll need to start networking with people in those offices (which is hard, I know) and learn when the openings are happening. I assume you have email alerts set up? And, for ANY job that you could apply for? Becoming a Fed is the hardest, but once you’re in, you can move around.

            When there is a posting that you can apply for, be very careful with how you fill out your application. Match your skills one-to-one for what the description calls for. And don’t use fancy lawyer language, use the language in the posting. Generally, an HR person who has no idea what any of the requirements mean is making sure applicants have the requisite qualifications. And, they are reviewing a ton. My application and resume were essentially a mirror image of the posting. If what was needed was experience evaluating inventions (I’m a patent attorney), then my resume bullet began, “Experience evaluating inventions, for example… [insert something the attorneys would understand]”. The resume and application for my federal position was over two pages long to make sure I covered all the qualifications–this is important because it slates you for your GS pay scale. And in a lot of cases, whatever you put in your application is cemented in through the hiring process (unless there’s an act of G0d). I would never have given this resume to a business or law firm.

            As for where they are, there is a reason the jobs are hard to find: fairly good retention. If you are in Chicago, know that there are federal offices in the suburbs–so don’t limit your search to just the metro area. I’m sure it’s the same in other metro areas. Also, think about who the major government contractors are in your area, and start networking with them.

          • anon

            Agh, MarieC can’t reply to you, but this was super helpful, thank you! I’m actually in Houston, but will try to expand. There are certainly contractors down here!

            My email alert so far has told me about immigration judgeships and that’s about it. I might remove the word “attorney” from my search…

          • Anonymous

            You can search by job series. I think the number for legal jobs is 0905, but you would need to confirm.

            However, I haven’t seen many jobs in Houston. The legal jobs in Texas that I’ve seen are in DFW

          • Anon Fed

            Fewer and fewer federal agencies are using USAJobs to post vacancies (FBI, NSA, and certain components of DHS and State Dept., to name just a few). You will need to expand your search to individual agency websites to find all the postings.

      • Anon

        Not all in-house has good hours, though. I was point-blank told in an interview for an in-house position for a national hospital not to expect the hours to be any better than they were in my current law firm. Make your expectations known in the interview.

        • Overworked inhouse

          As someone who is in-house and is expected to work until 6:30 or 7 every day, be available for late night and early morning phone calls, and available to work on the weekends as needed, I cosign this.

    • JJ

      In-house. It totally depends on the corporate culture and your GC, but in-house can be a great transition. I’m also making more in-house than I was working for a international law firm.

    • Mpls

      Regulatory or compliance work – often not JD-required, but may be JD-preferred. Banks, industries overseen by the EPA or FDA. Might be a bit of a career restart, though.

      • anon0321

        I do this- I am early on in my career & make a (lower end) big-law salary & have totally normal hours. I am on-call occasionally & occasionally have to travel & work longer- but my schedule is very 40 hrs per wk. I work from home regularly and also can pick the hrs I work (one person I work with works from 7-3 everyday so that she can pick her kids up from school). I actually love the work too. I work in the utility industries but have found similar postings in healthcare/insurance/many startups and have never had an issue explaining that the skill set is transferable & having the managers in those groups understand that. For me- it’s a much happier life than working at a firm and I highly recommend it.

    • Anon

      I first looked at government and none of those panned out. My approach was to search every job board I could find on a daily basis (the obvious commercial ones, but also local state bars, my undergrad, my law school, etc.), as well as checking the local newspaper and obsessively checking the job postings on websites for local companies (you would be surprised how many companies do not post any or all of their openings on commercial job sites), and applying for any job that wasn’t with a law firm but was otherwise remotely legal related (95% of these did not require a JD). I applied for a TON of positions that most attorneys would probably consider beneath them (I think one was technically like a legal secretary position for our state supreme court), but I wanted out pretty badly. I ended up getting a contract administration position that I found by checking a local company’s website (the position was later turned into an attorney position). Most large companies have some type of contract administration position, which is honestly comparable to legal work, but usually has pretty normal hours, so that may be an area to target as well as government. My pay is comparable to my starting salary at a medium-sized law firm, but the hours are regular and the people are awesome.

      • CountC

        This is what I do, although my company calls it a contract analyst. I do pretty much the same exact work I did when I was drafting and negotiating contracts in private practice and then in government, but I work 7 – 4, never check email at night or on weekends (even though I have a company phone and laptop), work with great people, on interesting things, and enjoy my job. My salary is not extraordinary, but I can pay my mortgage and my student loans and I have good benefits (including a great 401k company match program).

    • roses

      I went to a small firm. I hadn’t been actively looking for a new job but I knew I didn’t want to be in biglaw long-term. Strangely enough, I got the job after getting cold-called by a recruiter. 99% of the time those recruiters want you for another biglaw gig, but fortunately I had instituted a 5 second rule with their calls just in case one had something good. Worked out for me!

    • DC Anon

      Aside from working in biglaw, I’ve been in government, at a trade association, and in-house. Government is 40 hours a week, and the trade association and in-house are 45 hours a week. All three places have had very collegial cultures, interesting work, and predictable schedules. As has been mentioned above, you’ll need to use your network to make sure that you’re not moving in-house somewhere with unreasonable hours.

      It’ll be much easier to transition if you’re in a transactional or regulatory practice than if you’re in litigation. In fact, if you’re in litigation, I’d look to see if you can start broadening your practice away from litigation, so that you can use that experience to transition out of the firm. Otherwise, a compliance position is probably your easiest way out of biglaw.

    • Anonymous

      Be careful with in-house. I have friends who have gone in-house at big tech companies (Google and Amazon in particular) and they work Big Law hours with less pay. There are other perks like free food, not having to bill time, and no pressure to do business development, and I think most of them find their colleagues nicer now, but the total number of hours is roughly the same.

    • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

      Leaving biglaw altogether isn’t always the answer. Some firms/groups suck, some don’t.

      I was at biglaw firm A for a few years, liked it-really nice and smart co-workers, reasonable hours for the pay (~50 hours a week in office, 40ish billed). I left and went to biglaw firm B, and it was unbearable (unreasonable demands, terrible co-workers). Ended up back at A. I was senior enough to go in-house, but I didn’t want to for a ton of reasons, including some of those mentioned here.

  8. Charleston Girls' Weekend

    I’m heading to Charleston for a girls’ weekend with two friends in a few weeks. Any tips on things to do, restaurants, etc? I don’t think our group will be into touring old houses, which is the only thing I can remember doing there when I visited with my family when I was a kid. Thanks for your help!

    • Anonymous

      There is a restaurant called Toast on Meeting Street that is great for brunch. The horse carriage tours are fun, but don’t take the drivers version of “history” too seriously. Shopping on King Street is fun.. lots of little boutiques for unusual things. The open air market has lots of character too. If you are interested in military stuff, you can tour the Yorktown, an aircraft carrier. That’s not my thing, but an option.

      There are tons of good places to eat. Poogan’s Porch, 82 Queen, Magnolias, SNOB ( Slightly North of Broad), High Cotton, the restaurant at the Charleston Place hotel ( I forget the name).

      There is a place called Charleston Cooks and they do southern cooking demos and classes. I have done that once or twice with my husband. It’s fun too.

      Hope you have a great time.

      • Anonymous

        Anything on Upper King for cocktails, but make reservations for dinner! All the places mentioned above are fabulous too, but pricey and also need resos. It’s too early for it, but April – December (?) the farmers market on Marion Square is the best for brunch + people watching.

    • christineispink

      i was in Charleston from 1/15-18 and had a GREAT trip based on info from this s!te that I went back and G00gled for. email me at (christine is internet at g mail dot com) no spaces and i’m happy to share my itinerary and cleaned up notes from searching the comments here!

  9. Carrots

    Any recommendations for a good crock-pot cover? I have a very food motivated cat who I’m afraid would jump up on the counter and hurt herself trying to get into it when we’re not home. Not so worried about the cord, as her burning herself trying to move the lid somehow. We don’t have any other place to put it besides the kitchen counter, so moving it somewhere out of the way isn’t an option.

      • Same anonymous

        An extreme measure would be to put double-stick tape on the counter surrounding the crock pot. Cats hate stepping on sticky stuff.

    • tesyaa

      You can get a “cook and carry” (or similar) crock pot with a lid that latches. I am not sure if the lid is supposed to be latched during cooking, so you’d want to check that out before purchasing.

      • Anonymous

        I have one… you are not supposed to latch it during cooking. Can you put it on your stove, in the middle, between the burners ? Might give the cat some pause. I know this is silly, but what about in the bathroom on the counter and shut the door ?

      • MarieC

        I have one that you can latch during cooking. Check different versions, you’ll find one.

    • Walnut

      I plug in my crockpot in the bathroom during the day to keep it away from a counter surfing dog.

      • Anonymous

        This is brilliant! We never thought of that and instead put it in the oven, with the door 95% closed, and a portable baby playpen around it. Bathroom would have been 50x easier!

        • Carrots

          I might have to play with the oven idea! We have a tiny bathroom, with no extra counter space. Hopefully the cord reaches that long?

          • Wildkitten

            I mean you can put it on the bathroom floor if you close the lid and close the doors. Or on top of your toilet seat. Or in the bathtub.

      • AnonMidwest

        Do you have an available Laundry room? when I had a brilliant counter surfer who was free roaming, the crock pot went into the laundry room plugged in and sat on top of the washer (admittedly, I do not have a fancy front loader, just a solid metal lid on a top loader)

    • Gail the Goldfish

      A friend of mine has these things that are basically motion-activated cans of air that will spray a puff of air at the cat when it walks past, thus training it not to go in that area. I can’t remember what they’re called, but you could get a few and surround the crockpot with them.

      • MarieC

        I’m having fun imagining all these heavily guarded pot roasts cooking all day. I’d love to see the Rube Goldberg machine that keeps a cat away from a crock pot!

      • Sparrow

        We have the motion activated cans to keep the cats from getting behind the entertainment center where there are lots of wired. Ours are called Stay Away and we got them on Amazon.

    • Anonymous

      I have 2 cats that are extremely food motivated and all over the counters constantly. They eat anything and all the time. However Ive never had a problem with them and the crockpot, even if we’re making something super aromatic like chicken. Maybe try it for a day while you’re home and see if they’re interested?

    • Anonymous

      My crockpot comes with an silicon stretchy band that you can use to keep the lid in place. It loops under the handles and over the top of the glass lid. Believe it’s meant to secure it for transport purposes, but it might serve your purpose.

  10. Anon

    Just an anecdote about the importance of proofreading… I interviewed someone yesterday and felt fairly lukewarm about her; decided to think it over and wait until today to submit my feedback. Got a thank you email from her this morning… in which she misspelled the name of the company. That helps tip the scales!

    • Legally Brunette

      I have received lots of thank you notes where my name was spelled wrong. Instant ding.

    • anon

      Got a thank-you email after an interview with the word “medicine” spelled wrong…. in a position for a copyeditor at a hospital communications department.

    • Anonymous

      and this is why I tell people to never send thank yous. they almost never help and can only hurt you

      • Anonymous

        Yep. I don’t send them and have never had problems getting jobs. I have never heard someone say “Wow, that thank-you note was so great, I felt lukewarm about the candidate before and now I really like her!”

        • WestCoast Lawyer

          I’m usually interviewing multiple people for any given position. If one sends a thank you and the other doesn’t, it’s definitely a point in favor of the person who does in my book. I’m not saying it trumps experience or my general impression of them during the interview, but to many people it makes a difference.

          • anon0321

            Agreed, I have picked/hired the thank you note writer when all else is equal.

  11. Physical sunscreen recs

    On the advice of someone here for a good physical sunscreen, I have been using Elta MD clear spf 46, which has been great (I’m dark brown skinned and the sunscreen doesn’t leave a white tint, unlike most physical sunscreens). BUT, the last 3 bottles I have bought have had a defective pump dispenser, and it’s very annoying to return one after the other.

    Any other alternatives for a good physical sunscreen with at least SPF 30 and ideally higher?

    • Anonymous

      La Roche Posay. $ but worth it. (as in, my doctor told me to order it from Canada when I was allergic to the sun because the FDA hadn’t yet approved it)

    • CapHillAnon

      I’m a huge Elta MD fan, and had the same thing happen with the pump. It comes in tubes too (on drugstore dot com, I think), and that’s what I get now.

      • Anonymous

        Thank you! That is perfect. The Clear unfortunately doesn’t come in a tube, but I just looked on Amazon and there is a UV Shield SPF 45 that should do the trick. :)

    • It's Me Again...

      I just ordered the Elta MD brand thanks to this post.

      I am bronzey and have recently started dealing with hyperpigmentation right on the upper lip (so terrible – looks like a mustache!) every time I get even a little bit of sun on my face.

      I have an upcoming beach vacation so I’m hoping this helps to keep the faux-mustache at bay!

      Thanks!

      • Anonymous

        You’re welcome! I had the same issue and a prescription Retin-A made an enormous improvement with my hyper pigmentation/dark upper lip. Something to consider. You need to get it from a deem.

    • Anonymous

      I use Banana Boat Natural Reflect. It comes in SPF up to at least 50. The white residue is not as noticeable as other physical sunscreens I’ve tried.

    • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

      Shiseido sunscreens are great. They can leave a bit of a white tint, but I am “brown” and it works for me.

  12. TO Lawyer

    Any advice on how to deal with the frustrations of a job when you’ve decided to make a move? I love my job but it’s become pretty clear to me that the really frustrating things will never change because the partner I work for refuses to intervene in toxic situations. So I’m looking for something else but not in a rush because I want something comparable in terms of types of work I get to do. But I find myself getting so frustrated at the drop of a hat and I’m having a hard time managing it. Obviously things won’t change but how do you get yourself to deal with them when you’re still stuck for a few months?

    • Q

      I set a date for myself where I was going to quit, regardless of whether I had a new job or not. Having the deadline in my mind helped me mentally, because I could tell myself “only 6 more months.” Technically I may have stayed at my job past the deadline if I hadn’t found anything, but that’s not the point. It would have maybe been an extension of the deadline.

      Also, I had a talk with my SO about how bad my job was and we both acknowledged that at some point I may have to quit unexpectedly and we might be forced to live on one salary for a while. My SO was on board (didn’t love the idea, but understood) and knowing that I could walk out any particular day if it got really bad also helped. If you don’t have an SO, you can do this on your own by creating an emergency fund. It is kind of like ‘permission’ to quit.

      Found my amazing new job about halfway through the time period I set for myself – it feels great. Good luck.

    • lawsuited

      I had weekly (or so) mantras that I would repeat to myself as necessary. Like, “not my monkeys, not my circus”, “file this under the category of Not Your Problem”, etc. Kind of petty, but it worked a charm to reframe my mindset and not take the same old annoyances to heart.

  13. Journelle?

    Has anyone bought anything from Journelle’s (lingerie store) online store? I know they have some stores in NYC but I dont live there and wont be visiting anytime soon. They have really beautiful bras on sale in my size (which is sometimes hard to find) and i was thinking of buying some. Is it better quality than Victoria’s Secret/its not cheap but i need better quality and I’ve been so busy I havent had time to shop for bras in person lately.

    • anne-on

      Yes, they were lovely, sent super quickly with free lingerie wash, and no issue returning the ones that didn’t fit. I’d absolutely order from there again.

    • Eliza

      Many of their sale items tend to be final sale, so double check the terms before you order.

  14. MM LaFleur Review

    Just wanted to say I got my first bento box — ughhh, its all so nice, can’t afford any of it, but man that “jardigan” is tempting. DH, who knows nothing of fashion, commented that the dresses looked “expensive.”

    • KateMiddletown

      I’m out of the loop on MM LaFleur. What is a bento box in this context?

      • MM LaFleur Review

        Its kind of like Stitch Fix, but they only send you their brand. I got 3 dresses, a pencil skirt, the “jardigan”, and a scarf in this “bento box.” The first one is free, but after that they charge a “styling fee” of 25 or 35 bucks that is waived if you buy, credited to your account if you don’t (just like stitch fix). You have four days to try on and send back what you don’t want.
        The dresses were really nice, high quality, and ranged in price from $165 to $240. They make a point to showcase machine washable when possible, and note when something is “travel friendly” (wrinkle resistant).
        The real winners were the “jardigan” – its feels like a high-tech sweater, looks as sharp as a blazer. I really shouldn’t buy it, but my size is sold out on their regular shopping page, so I might pull the trigger.
        The scarf was $90 bucks so its going back, but man, it is beautiful. A soft mauve that goes with everything, wool, and light as a feather.

    • Anonymous

      I have a jardigan! I am keeping since this is an area where I need to up my game when dressing for work.

      I love, LOVE the Etsuko dress (and am trying to figure out why I don’t need it in every color). It is amazing that it doesn’t wrinkle.

      I tried the Annabel and almost sobbed when it didn’t fit on me (I’m on the short side). Also amazingly wrinkle-free.

      I really want to visit the showroom when I’m in NYC next and try everything on.

    • Msj

      Just tried on most of their new line at the showroom this week. Ended up with the Etsuko dress (amazing), Deneuve top, and the new Nakamura trousers. was very tempted by the Lydia and Jardigans but had to draw the line somewhere. For those of you in NY, I’d highly recommend a visit to their showroom.

      • Anonymous

        What size Etsuko worked for you? It is your size in any other brand? I don’t wear Theory and the one DVF 8 sheath that I have I have is very body-con on me (and the wrap is maybe too big up top). I hate to ship-and-return too much for sizing.

        • Anonymous

          Haven’t tried the etsuko, but if it helps, I was a 2/XS in everything in my bento, and I wear a 0-2 at J Crew, a 6 at H&M.

        • MSJ

          I am a size 2 in the Etsuko. I am a 0 in J Crew skirts. I think my DVF wrap is a 2 but I probably would have been fine with a 4. I was nervous because I have an older MM LaFleur dress in size 2 that always seems a bit body con on me, but in the Etsuko (and in the pants) a 2 worked best. This Nisa is similar but the front seam didn’t do me any favors and the overall cut just didn’t work as well.

    • christineispink

      i LOVE LOVE LOVE my jardigan. Also the etsuko. The Etsuko fit me perfectly in a 4 everywhere but the bust so I ended up with the 6 and I didn’t get them tailored b/c they’re perfectly “work appropriate” and not body con in that size. (Size 4 would be a great date dress but Size 6 was just fine for work). I am usually an 8 in Theory dresses (bust issues with waist and hip taken in) and a 4 in Ann Taylor dresses, size 3 in non-stretchy Ted Baker. while I adore mmlf dresses – i hate how expensive they are for UNLINED, non-silk/rayon/wool dresses. It’s great that they are travel-friendly but it’s a ridiculous amount of money for the TYPE of fabric in an unlined dress.

  15. Sydney Bristow

    The MM LaFleur post made me remember something I’ve been meaning to ask.

    Has anyone tried Gwynnie Bee? Does it work well for work clothes? Do you like it?

    • tesyaa

      Some commenters on Ask A Manager were raving about it… you might try asking on the Friday open thread

    • Ems

      Sydney, I think you just lost a bunch of weight and recall that you work in NYC, so unless they’ve drastically upped the % of work clothes and clothes at the smaller range of “plus size”, NO.

      I tried it last year around this time and found the clothes to be of forever 21 quality and age. I cannot wear that to work. Also, a lot of things in my size just weren’t available. (12P-14P)

      • Sydney Bristow

        Unfortunately I had lost a bunch but have gained it back. I’m moving back down slowly but I’m currently in the 18-20 range. I was thinking it might help fill some wardrobe gaps and I get smaller again.

        Thanks for the note on quality and work appropriateness.

        • Lorelei gilmore

          A friend of mine loves it. Smaller end of plus sizes, works in BigLaw, but in the PNW. I’m thinking of giving it a try.

    • Meg March

      I looked at it, but decided that it was more casual than I could ever wear to work (business casual) and decided against it.

      • Meg March

        Also had the same experience as Ems, in that the 12-14 range was very sparse.

    • 2 Cents

      I was tempted to try Plvsh, which looks like it’d have more work clothes for plus size.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not plus size so my advice may be of limited use, but since you mention that your size is in flux, have you considered Rent the Runway’s unlimited program? I loved it. It would keep you from having to buy a bunch of clothes that won’t fit in the future.

    • KT

      I do Gwynnie Bee, but they’re clothes are on the casual side of business casual. Fun dresses and tops, but if you have a more conservative office, you may find it difficult to find stuff.

    • SA

      I’ve also done Gwynnie Bee, I never liked anything. I’m also 12-14 and everything was cut funny and sized very large. It also didn’t feel clean.

  16. anonymous

    Hi all – going anon with as little info as possible for this because I know colleagues read th*s s*te. I’m looking to switch from Biglaw to venture capital in London (UK). Do any of you ladies have any advice on how to get informational interviews with people? I’ve tried cold-emailing and gotten absolutely no response. My alumni network is extremely thin in London, so that route has not turned up any options (and the people I did email through my alumni network did not respond either). Short of showing up at people’s offices and asking for 5 minutes, what should I do? Is this normal for the industry to not do informational interviews?

    • Woods-comma-Elle

      In my experience, informational interviews aren’t really a thing in London and people don’t really use alumni networks so this might not really help. Your best bet is (1) recruiters and (2) industry events. People get jobs all the time through people they met at xyz drinks reception.

    • Anonymous

      I wonder too about the planned move. I’m venture-capital-adjacent on the business side, and I don’t recall coming across many former attorneys who don’t also have really compelling transactional/finance/operational backgrounds. Do you check any of those boxes?

    • KittyKat

      You are a woman. VC is very male dominated, you will be facing an uphill battle for the entirety of your career. Why would you want to get into what is basically a glorified sales job anyways? Securing capital for starts ups really is a game of who you know not what you know

    • MJ

      This is just my experience from Silicon Valley (and a top business school) and working in banking in London, but getting into the business side VC with a law background is pretty difficult. Most VCs have either tech or operational (function or industry) experience. Also, if you are going to be a VC, many also have financial backgrounds (like Tech banking). I don’t mean to crush your dreams, but VC jobs are highly coveted and extremely difficult to get–the creme de la creme of my b-school got VC jobs…and no more. Also, VC is pretty sexist, and London finance is more sexist still.

      That said, VCs are often inundated with requests for their time and expertise. Thus, your attempts to get informational interviews have them fearing that you are trying to pitch them (and many good VCs don’t want unsolicited pitches as they have whole networks of people who vet and bring them good stuff). You will have better luck going to industry events (pitch contents, angel investing events, etc.). I don’t know a ton about the London VC scene, but the way in is through networking in person, not unsolicited electronic contacts. This is a “who you know” industry where pedigree matters a ton, unfortunately. Good luck!

    • OP

      Any suggestions then for other industries where a background in IPOs would be appreciated? That’s been my primary focus at my law firm so far. I do not want to continue in law and would like to switch to the business side.

      • Anonymous

        Have you considered an MBA? That would demonstrate to me that you really aren’t interested in staying in law. I’m the VC-adjacent person above in a finance setting, and in my experience, we don’t see or consider many attorneys for business positions. The practice of law just feels very different from what we do.

        We would consider you for in-house legal and compliance roles.

      • MJ

        Have you considered switching to capital markets at an investment bank? Do you have a finance/math background? How old are you (age is an issue in banking hiring). A background in IPOs is pretty narrow, and the first thing I’d do is try to switch to a more general corporate group to get more balance experience. (I know that’s hard since most US-law groups in London do public company work or capital markets work).

  17. Questions to ask when Dating

    Hello wise woman of the hive, can I get some help with dating? What questions do you ask yourself after the first few dates to determine if you should keep dating someone? I keep ending up in these situations where I am 80%, but not 100% sure, that someone isn’t it, and end up going on 3, 4, 5, 6 dates with someone before finally breaking it off. This ends up being very stressful for me, as well as very time consuming (which adds to the stress), and, occasionally leads to horrible dogged kisses situations. Latest example is a great guy who I’ve gone on 4 fantastic, fun, comfortable dates with, but feel zero, nada, nilch attraction to. Great guy, we share the same hopes for the future, but I just don’t feel it. And I’m second guessing whether I should go on another date with him or not. Not feeling attraction to someone at this point is a good reason to break it off, right? (right?? Or can attraction take longer than this to develop?? Or am I too picky by wanting that??) I’m having a lot of trouble acting on my instincts, and would love to hear how some of the rest of you navigate the early date decisions. I’m also feeling I’m sometimes being inadvertently cruel by not breaking it off earlier.

    (For context, I’m mid 30’s, am not so unsure of myself in other contexts, very much want to meet the right person and have a family, have had good long term relationships in the past, and have exactly zero friends my age who are also dating and whom I can talk to about this….and talking with my married friends usually yields some form of “if he’s a good person, you should give him another chance”, which is great in abstract, but not so awesome in execution, for all the reasons detailed above).

    • anon dater

      I can’t speak for you or anyone else, but I usually cut things off after 2-3 days if I’m not feeling attraction. It’s not that I’ve always been immediately attracted to the physical type of the guys I’ve fallen for, but usually within 1-3 dates I feel SOMETHING, some kind of butterflies, that make me sense a growing attraction. I’ve felt butterflies hearing a guy talk about something he’s passionate about or when we just totally click about something, and then I’ll find that I’m attracted to things I never thought I liked, like a beard or warm crinkly eyes when he smiles.

      All that said, if I don’t want to kiss the guy by date 3, I end it. Of course, I’m still single, so I might not know what I’m talking about!

      • Dahlia

        If I’m not physically attracted, there’s no second date. For me it doesn’t grow- I’m either attracted or I’m not.

        And that’s why I’m living with a man I met at a bar who I have nothing in common with except a mutual love of fitness and each other. But it’s amazing and he’s opened my world to so many things.

        I guess it depends how important a foundation of physical attraction is for you? For me its important so I don’t waste my time (or his) if its not there.

    • anon

      I wasn’t particularly into my husband when we first started dating. But, we both persisted and it worked out.
      But, physical compatibility was important so I didn’t tend to wait past 2 dates to kiss the guy. If that chemistry wasn’t there, I wanted to know early on and ended it with a few guys for that reason.

      • J

        Can you elaborate? I’m so curious what it feels like to explicitly not be into someone and yet want to date them. I can’t fathom it. Were you just not attracted to him? Did you not like his personality? What made you decide to stick it out?

        • anon

          I’m not OP but I often have the same experience. I’ll meet guys who check all my boxes and I genuinely enjoy spending time with them, but I just don’t know if we “click” enough or are emotionally/intellectually connected enough to think “this is a person I could see myself being with for ever.” If I don’t feel physical chemistry with someone after one or two make out sessions, it’s done. But sometimes, I don’t realize there is physical chemistry until the make out session. I hate the thought of being physical with someone while I’m “waiting” for that attraction to come.

          Obviously you don’t know within 5 days if you want to be with someone forever. That’s why it’s hard to say no to the 5,6,7th date with someone who seems to have so much potential, waiting for that strong click/connection to arrive. For me, it always nags at the back of my mind, and I ignore it, hoping it will develop, and so far, it hasn’t. Maybe that’s why I’m still single.

        • anon

          I’m also not OP but I dated my husband for months before I was into him much at all. It’s also possible that I was in denial about it, as I’m not a very feeling-oriented person. The first time I saw him, I thought “that guy may be the weirdest looking guy I’ve ever seen.” Needless to say I wasn’t attracted. We started talking as friends and it turns out he’s super smart, interesting, and really unique. I didn’t think I was into him, but I found myself enjoying his company and looking forward to seeing him. It wasn’t really all that different than other friends. Then he kissed me and I just went with it since it was such a surprise. I guess I sort of “let” things develop, and he really, really grew on me. I was like 21 at the time, though, so I probably wouldn’t wait for something like that if I were dating at this stage in my life (30ish)

          • anon

            Oh also cosign anon’s point below about being reserved and just needing time to figure out how I felt.

        • anon

          I also “wasn’t particularly into my husband when we first started dating.” In the past, I dated guys who kind of swept me off my feet and there was the initial “rush” of WHOA, EXCITING, FUN, HOTTTT. It wasn’t like that with this guy, at all. He was super into me, though, so even though I wasn’t sure, I did know that I was really impressed by the way he treated me. He was kind, thoughtful, attentive, and SMART–things I really cared about. I really believe that you get what you give in a relationship, so I decided to jump in 100% even though the physical attraction wasn’t really there. I think it took me a bit longer to fall in love, but I knew I WANTED to love him–he was just too good to pass up! He was willing to wait for me to be comfortable and let things develop organically (another plus in my book).

          You can’t force feelings, and that’s not what I’m recommending, but if you can’t think of a reason not to date him, why not wait and see if things develop? What’s the harm in trying if he really is that great?

          PS- 5 years later and married to the best guy I know. And the physical relationship is amazing. WORTH IT.

    • Veronica Mars

      As for having trouble following your intuition–I think a big part of this for you will be setting your internal compass, and what I mean by that is really sitting down and thinking about your behavioral patterns, both in past relationships and in your life in general. Are you the kind of person who cuts and runs at the first chance? Someone who says “no” to a lot of things and is generally closed off and guarded when it comes to personal relationships? (This is me, btw, no judgements). If that’s the case, I think you need to be aware of this and know that your “true north” (i.e. natural instinct) is actually a little off and that you may be missing out on opportunities and people by following that knee jerk “no, I don’t like this, I want to bail.” So to correct this, you might want to go on an extra date or two to see if there’s actually attraction or chemistry or whatever there. The opposite would be true for someone who’s “true north” is off in the sense that they get over-excited and are more blind to people’s flaws, so their correction would be being more careful and discerning than they naturally want to be. And of course it’s not picky to want to be attracted to someone. You just have to think about whether you’re being open and ready and calm enough that if there were attraction, you would feel it. And sometimes attraction hits you over the head and sometimes it simmers. Some people only want hit over the head, and that’s fine. But I do think it can build.

      • Anonymous

        I just posted a response that I think is in moderation, but this comment says it better. My best friend is reserved by nature– particularly with men– and needed to go on 3 or 4 dates with her now husband before she could contemplate wanting to kiss him. Not entirely sure she was all that into it before he made his move at that point. Now they’re happy.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, you’ve basically summed up my problem with online dating in a nutshell – if you’re not feeling it by date 3 or 4, should you keep going, or stop? Because I definitely feel like there’s expectations by that point, and it’s kind of awkward to tell someone, “Hey, still not sure I’m feeling it yet, wanna keep dating to see?” Definitely curious to see how others handle this.

      • J

        People who are not feeling it by dates 3 or 4, are you doing anything physical with the guy or literally just going out to dinner/drinks and then going home (separately)?

        • Anon at 11:01

          I’m definitely going home separately. I think I would be anyway even if I was into the guy (I’m more reserved by nature), but that hasn’t happened in a while, so it’s hard to say. But it’s definitely part of the reason I feel awkward carrying on much past that point because it’s just hard to continue dating if I’m not even really sure I want to make out with the guy (or more).

          Once I made it to 4 dates with someone without us ever having kissed – but he also very diligently maintained a polite distance between us at all times, so I’m not sure anything would have ever happened there.

        • Senior Attorney

          I think there’s a difference between “nada, zero, zilch attraction” and “letting things develop slowly and seeing what happens.” Gentleman Friend and had maybe 12 dates or more before there was more than a chaste good-night peck on the lips and a “good-night” at the door. In the beginning I thought I wasn’t feeling it but he was nice and fun and there wasn’t anybody else I was interested in, so I hung in there to see what would happen even though early on I was maybe 80% sure it wasn’t happening.

          Lo and behold, once it happened it REALLY happened and the physical relationship has been off the charts ever since. Possibly because by then we knew one another really well and felt really comfortable with one another.

          • Anon at 11:01

            That’s sort of what my mom has always been telling me to do. Of course, my friends who say “4 dates? That’s a lot of dates!” don’t help, but that’s probably a “you do you” issue.

            It’s nice that Gentleman Friend didn’t try to rush you. I’ve had some different experiences.

            Anyway, I’m not the one who started this thread, so I’ll get off here. Thanks for the advice, everybody.

          • Senior Attorney

            Well we’re probably your mom’s age or older, which makes it easier, I think.

          • Anon @ 11.01

            @Senior Attorney – my mom told me once (years ago, now) that she’d always felt like a throwback, which was funny to me, because I’ve always felt that way, too. And I do think my parents were probably old-fashioned even for their time (late 70s), but they’re still married!

    • Anonymous

      My best friend met her husband through Match and wasn’t all that attracted to him for the first few dates (maybe 3? 4?). I remember her telling me she couldn’t imagine kissing him, and now they have a healthy sex life and an enviable relationship. I wouldn’t have made it past the first date in those circumstances.

      I think the difference between us is that I have always been into a wider range of guys and–shall we say– “more likely to get physical” than she has. If you’re typically immediately or quickly attracted to guys (and don’t have an unhealthy pattern of falling for the same bad-for-you type), it doesn’t make much sense to keep seeing someone who doesn’t do it for you. If you’re more reticent or tend to need to know a guy fairly well before you’re comfortable getting physical, then you’re going to need to go on more dates.

      Finally– and I’m not at all advocating doing something you’re uncomfortable with– but can you think about what might have happened if you didn’t dodge the kisses from guys that you weren’t super into? (I’m talking about guys you’ve seen 3 or 4 times who seem likable in general– not suggesting that you need to give every “nice guy” a chance.) Sometimes getting over the awkwardness of a first kiss helps you see a guy in a more sexual way. I recognize that it makes the “I’m not into you” conversation that much harder, but do you think there’s a chance you’re writing off guys who might be shy about making the first move (while not wanting to make the first move yourself)?

      • Em

        But I will also say, doing physical stuff with guys you’re not initially attracted to can also backfire – the last thing you want is to associate physical intimacy with trying to force yourself or slogging through something you don’t like. So it’s a balance and depends a lot on your individual style.

        • Anonymous

          There’s a huge difference between a goodnight kiss and “slogging through something you don’t like.” You can end the kiss or not ever have another one if there’s no chemistry. I don’t think you necessarily need to make out with someone to know if you are attracted – a kiss (or holding hands, or a hug depending on your boundaries and comfort) will give you a lot of information about the potential attraction.

      • Diana Barry

        I am like you – I wouldn’t go on more than one date with guys I didn’t want to kiss in a major way.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. If I felt attracted to them, I just kissed them and let it go from there. I’m not a particularly chaste person, fyi, but it worked really well for me. If you don’t want to have a physical relationship with someone, don’t go out with them again. If you’re not sure after the first date, see if you can have another date and kiss them. It’s not a tragedy if you don’t like it. You figure out if you do or do not and go from there.

    • Mary Ann Singleton

      After 2-3 dates I ask myself: would I rather go out on a date with this person or hang out at home with my dog? My dog is pretty awesome so she wins out most of the time, which is probably why I’m still single.

  18. Bonnie

    I hate to admit it but I wish I had gotten reading glasses earlier. I knew that I was squinting but didn’t realize just how much!

    • Anonymous

      I wasn’t squinting, but I was having to hold things at arm’s length to focus. I otherwise have 20-20 vision, but worn-out focusing muscles.

    • Bonnie

      That’s exactly it. It’s so much easier to focus with the glasses. The optometrist immediately looked at my age and said it comes with the territory.

      • Runner 5

        I first got reading glasses at 17… 6 months after getting my first smartphone.

        • Bonnie

          He did say that he is seeing younger patients with presbyopia now that we all spend so much more time staring at electronic devices.

  19. Lurve

    The discussion a couple days ago brought this to mind – my SO is crazy about me, and I think he’s just the bee’s knees, but we speak different love languages. I’m a “Words of Affirmation” and”Gifts” and he’s a “Physical Touch” and “Quality Time.” He’s happy with how I show him my feelings, and I recognize and appreciate the ways he shows me he cares, but there’s a small part of me that still yearns for some romantic gestures once in a while, and more thoughtful selections/presentations of gifts (Christmas was “what are you doing on x day?” and then an emailed gift certificate to a fun event I enjoyed).

    How do I bring this up as a polite explanation of my desires instead of a whiny accusation? He’s skeptical of self-help type things, so I don’t think giving him the book would be successful. And is it even possible for a non-romantic to come up with heartfelt romantic gestures?

    • Ellen

      Yay Kat! This is a great suit, but we should wait for the spring to wear these color’s! But great selection, Kat and Kate!

      As for the OP, be gratful for what your SO DOES bring to the releationship. He care’s about you, spend’s time with you. If you want more romance then he is giveing, then you can spice thing’s up in the bedroom, which often does light guy’s fire’s. But he sound’s fine to me as is. I can onley tell you that my ex was very unromantic–buying cheep gift’s from CVS he thought entitled him to make me do everything for HIM in the bedroom. I can tell you that a $3.99 box of choclate should NOT make you do thing’s you are NOT comfortabel doeing, and he alone cost me a fortune when he soiled my 1000 count Egyptian Sheet’s TWICE! FOOEY on him.

      From now on, goieng forward, I will NOT let a man into my bedroom unless he is showered and shaven, and does NOT demand thing’s of me to do for his plesure while I get NADA. You seem to have it all, and he is not a schlub. Be happy b/c it could be alot worse like it was with my ex. TRIPEL FOOEY!

    • Senior Attorney

      Make it easy for him to succeed. One year I gave my then-husband a list of things I wanted for Christmas, with links, and said I would love it if he would choose one or more of them and have them wrapped and under the tree. He was delighted because he knew what to do and that it would make me happy (which it did). If you want the romantic gestures you are going to have to request them explicitly rather than just saying “I wish you would come up with heartfelt romantic gestures,” which to him will sound like “I wish you would flap your arms and fly to the moon.” It’s super easy these days with Amazon wish lists and so on.

      Beyond that, you’re not going to turn him into a “romantic gestures” guy and I think the wiser course is to accept that (price of admission) and focus on the things you love about him. My guy doesn’t do Valentine’s Day or flowers or any of that, but he cooks for me and gives me back rubs and I accept those things with delight as his version of “romantic gestures.”

      Which brings me to… can you re-frame some of what he already does as “heartfelt romantic gestures?” I guarantee you that from his point of view he is doing things he intends to be that. Maybe ask him “when you want to show me you love me, what do you do?”

      • Wildkitten

        Yes. I have a very specific Amazon wish list. And I loooove the stuff I got, of course. It didn’t take the magic away at all because I had no idea which of the things would be the ones I got.

      • Lurve

        I should’ve just asked you directly, Senior Attorney. I wasn’t sure whether this was a price of admission kind of thing or a reasonable request (obviously not a dealbreaker), but being direct about occasional requests seems like a good compromise.

        • anon0321

          Not Senior Attorney, but I go to the store, take about 10 pics of pieces of jewelry I like, send them to my husband & he pics one. Takes away the stress for him because he’s not going into it totally blind, takes away the stress from me because I get something I like in a price range I’m comfortable with.
          I also keep a running universal amazon wish list. When I run across things I like, I add them.
          I’m not a gift person and I don’t love getting things, so buying for me is really hard- this way, when I think of something, I save it & everyone is happy (including those that like buying people gifts).
          Also- whenever I get annoyed about gifts I remind myself, “hey if this is the biggest problem we have, things are pretty great.”

  20. Betsy

    Ok, I fully admit this is a super basic fashion question. I just bought a navy suit that is going to be my new interview suit, and I have an interview next week. What color tights and shoes do I wear with it? My first inclination is navy tights, navy shoes, but then I’m in navy from head to toe and probably the shades don’t match. What about a snakeskin print shoe? If so, can I wear navy tights or do I need to get sheer hose? If it matters, I’m in a pretty casual field.

    • anne-on

      What about grey tights and shoes? Or you can always wear nude hose. If you go with nude hose I’d make sure your blouse and shoes compliment each other. Maybe oxblood shoes and top? Purple top and heels? I also love a deep hunter green with navy and find deep green shoes surprisingly versatile.

      • Anonymous

        No, not with navy, especially for an interview.

        Unless it is freezing, bare legs and navy or nude-for-you shoes. If it freezing, nude-for-you hose.

        • Nan

          No, not with navy, especially for an interview.

          Unless it is freezing, bare legs and navy or nude-for-you shoes. If it freezing, nude-for-you hose.

      • anon

        Nude hose and burgundy (formerly known as oxblood) pumps is a classic, conservative look. You could also do nude hose and nude for you shoes, or brown shoes. Grey tights and shoes may be ok in your more casual environment. No bare legs, no black.

    • lslsls

      I like a gray matte leather pump with a white shell for navy suits (and nude hose). Or nude hose and navy pumps tool I think snakeskin is great any other day, but I’m a little wary about it for interviews.

      I think colored (even black) hose with a navy suit look dated.

    • Anonymous

      I think your most conservative option would be navy suit – nude hose – black pumps. Second would be navy suit – sheer black hose – black pumps. You’re in a casual environment, but if you’re doing a suit, do it right!

      I think navy shoes are fine, if not a little too matchy, but black shoes “dresses up” navy and brown shoes “dresses down” navy.

    • anon-oh-no

      navy is my go to. I wear bare legs in the summer with just about any color other than black shoes (navy, nude, or red are my favorites)

      In the winter, I wear nude hose, navy sheer hose, or navy tights (keep looking until you find the match for your suit/shoes); always with navy shoes. for an interview, I would wear the nude hose, but for work, I like the monochromatic look. you can do a patterned navy tight if you want to break it up a bit

    • DC Anon

      I’d wear sheer black hose and black pumps. I’d also wear a black top under the navy suit and carry a black bag. In case it’s not obvious, I love black and navy together.

    • Cat

      I vote for sheer hose (especially because if you’re East Coast, we’re going to be in a very pleasant thaw next week) with either (1) matching navy, (2) gray, (3) nude for you, or (4) oxblood/cordovan.

    • Nan

      I like the sheer “off black” hose with navy, if you don’t want to go with nude-for-you hose (I think nude looks kind of bare & unseasonal in the dead of winter, if you’re in a cold climate, but that’s me). It’s softer than black, and is a nice “transition” to a black shoe if that’s what you have. And since it’s not opaque like tights, there’s not such an issue with different shades.
      Black shoes are fine with navy.

    • Runner 5

      On pairing navy and black I think it depends on how dark the navy is. If it’s a very blue navy then it’s fine but if it’s a dark one I avoid the combination for fear of looking like I got dressed in the dark (although I usually am due to the perenially underlit nature of rental houses I’ve lived in)

    • Anonymous

      In the winter I’d wear skin-tone hose. If you wanted to do black, I would pair it with a black top and black shoes. Navy may be ok, but it wouldn’t be my first choice.

    • hoola hoopa

      For an interview, nude hose and black, navy, or nude shoes.

      After you get the job, (or maybe if you’re in a creative field where they’d like to see a pop of color in an interview), you can pair with purple shoes.

    • Betsy

      Thanks everyone! I think I’m going to go with navy shoes and sheer hose. It’s supposed to be fairly warm next week so hopefully I won’t freeze!

  21. Anon

    Could I get a smidge of support? I don’t have any close divorced friends IRL to speak to.

    My ex-h and I are wonderful friends. We got divorced because we realized we wanted very different things in life and that it would be kinder to the other to divorce than to force choices that could lead to bitterness later.

    We’ve been divorced a year and haven’t spoken in 6 months. We just had to talk about taxes. Hearing his voice was this wave of the past crashing over me. The convo was maybe 10 minutes long, and at the end it turned to some of our old friends. I’m unlikely to see most of those people ever again, and sometimes the finality of it is hard. It’s not just that a chapter is closed, the whole book is closed and put up in the attic. I’m in a whole new book now. I’m happy in my life now, but my ex-h and I didn’t divorce because of dislike, and sometimes missing all those friends and relatives is so very hard.

    To be clear, I have NO romantic feelings for him. It’s the familiarity of the old life sometimes that I miss as I carve out a new, uncharted existence for myself. Two nights ago I realized was the first time I’ve felt comfortable, truly comfortable, in my new life, and like I have a handle on things. …A full year. I’m realizing that even though we had a “good” divorce, it still takes time.

    • cbackson

      So a year out really isn’t much in the grand scheme of things – it’s not at all surprising that it’s still hard sometimes.

      My ex-h and I didn’t have a “good” divorce like yours (it wasn’t contentious, but he hurt me badly and I 100% cut off contact; I don’t even know what city or state he lives in), and I don’t miss him, but there are times I’m just tremendously sad that I’ll never be a part of my (former) nieces and nephews’ lives again. I don’t have any emotional response to thoughts of my ex-h anymore, but I do really miss the kids sometimes. It’s been five years. I don’t expect ever to not miss them, because I loved them.

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes, I feel you! My ex was horrible and I’m happy to never see or hear from him again, but I loved his extended family and there will always be a sadness in the place in my life where they used to be.

      And hey! Congratulations on the new life and the handle on things! At a year out I was still a mess so you are way ahead of the game as far as I’m concerned!

    • Idea

      This is a really beautiful tribute and reminds me of the Modern Love columns in the N Y Times on Sunday. I think they have a breakup column, too, people who were featured in their Vows column, even.

      It sounds like you’re really self-aware and that will take you far. It took you into a good relationship, and back out. I wish you luck and love- you deserve the best

    • CHJ

      Aww, hang in there. Everything you’re saying is completely normal. I went through an amicable divorce 7 years ago, and later met (and married!) someone who is a much better match for me. We have an adorable toddler and life is wonderful. But I still feel a twinge of sadness when my first marriage wedding date comes along or when I see pictures of him on Facebook with friends who were his friends, not my friends, and I’ll probably never see again. These are things that are just plain sad about divorce, regardless of the circumstances. And it is completely reasonable to feel sad when those things come up.

    • Anonymous

      We weren’t married, but I seriously dated/lived with someone for 5 years, and I heard recently that his grandmother died, which broke my heart. I loved her, she was such a fantastic person and I spent a lot of time with her. His family is the thing I miss most about that relationship.

    • Getting Older & Better

      You are doing GREAT, your perspective is on point. I had a civilized divorce, we just grew in different directions. It has been years, and occasionally something will still remind me of the “good things” about that relationship. Or I run into a friend from that time and realize i still miss some of that old life… With time the feelings soften…and my life now is wonderful . Sounds like you are making good progress.

    • Anonymous

      I similarly had an amicable divorce from someone I still cared about and I had very similar feelings to what you’re describing. I was very close with his family and we had some mutual friends that I “gave” him in the divorce. It was very weird and sad to just have those people gone from my life, even though I was very happy and excited about my new life.

      6 years later, I am recently remarried, living in the city where I moved after the divorce, with a wonderful community of friends. I still have twinges around holidays where I miss his family (and I get occasional updates on them from my ex-husband who I still keep in touch with intermittently), but I now see the value of there being emotional space in my life and in my ex-husband’s life for new family and friends that aren’t tied to a former partner. For example, his family needed to be able to let me go so that they would have space to welcome his eventual new partner.

      In sum, you are not alone and the feelings that you’re experiencing are completely normal and healthy. The sadness really does continue to ease over time. Best of luck to you.

    • hoola hoopa

      We had a semi-amicable split (initially friendly ‘we want different things’ that eventually turned sour), and I can completely relate to missing the old life and old friends-of-ex. The emotion and longing did pass, although I do occasionally search for some of the friends on the internet to see what’s going on in their life now (without any emotional spiraling, etc).

    • AnonMidwest

      Two years out from a very non-amicable divorce and I can say that the only part of my marriage that I miss are the friends that I lost and the few members of his family that were kind to me.

      I did spiral for a while, and now I just pause in sadness for a few seconds (think “a moment of silence”) and move along.

      You’re doing great…concentrate on moving forward.

  22. Anonymous

    I would welcome the hive’s wisdom in the situation I am facing. DH and I are planning on divorcing. We arrived at the decision not too long ago, but have no timeline set of when exactly it’s going to happen, but it will likely not be in the next 5 months (and possibly later). Other than coming to the decision of breaking up, we haven’t taken any steps to actually separate. We’re on good terms and still care for one another and continue to live together peacefully. We haven’t told anyone, including family members, of our decision and my guess is they’ll be surprised.

    Given all of this, if DH’s immediate family member was having a wedding in about two months, would you attend?

    • Senior Attorney

      Under the circumstances you describe, I would attend. I don’t think there’s any way not to attend without raising questions, and it seems like you don’t have enough specific answers yet to make raising the questions a very good idea.

      • Anonymous

        You hit the nail right on the head. By biggest concern is the situation raising questions before we’re prepared to deal with them. This was being weighed by my concern on the other hand, which is showing up in a bunch of family photos knowing I won’t be part of that family before the year ends.

    • Anon

      For an immediate family member, and you do not expect to announce in the intervening time, I would go.

      When we were close to the end and divorce was on the table but we hadn’t yet decided (I’m the amicable divorce OP up a little ways), I chose not to travel 8 hours for a close cousin’s wedding. (Ex-h was unable to go because he was out of the country for work, so it would have been me going by myself.) My absence raised a LOT of eyebrows in his close-knit family. Consequently, they weren’t surprised when we announced our separation 3 months later.

      • anon0321

        That’s really interesting that they expected you to go without him. I’m SUPER close with my husband’s family & love them to death… but would probably feel really awkward travelling to a wedding on his side of the fam without him.
        I say go if you are on friendly terms with him & his fam– but for the picture concern, if there’s pics with you- maybe suggest they also take pics w/out partners. One of my SILs had a recent breakup & another SIL had a huge print of a wedding picture with the ex on her wall & it caused a lot of drama (I thought it was silly, but my MIL & SIL got huffy about it and everyone else in the family seemed to think they were being totally reasonable, so definitely expect this– although you won’t have to deal with it after the divorce).

  23. Made A Mistake

    I have a situation that I desperately need advice for.

    I’m a first year associate. Recently I have been working assisting some senior people on a big case my firm currently has in court.

    There was a mistake made on some documents that didn’t get caught before they made it to court. The senior attorney on the case got a dressing down in court from the judge because the mistake was so obvious.

    The mistake was something myself and a paralegal had worked on and when I was emailed about it I thought it couldn’t have been me because I am always careful. I told the senior attorney it wasn’t me and must have been the paralegal. She was fired.

    During a damage control meeting I came to realize that the mistake was mine. I feel sick that I screwed up and awful that she got fired. I know I screwed up twice, once with the original mistake and once assuming it wasn’t me who made it.

    I don’t know what to do now. They don’t know it was actually me who screwed up and if I don’t say anything no one will ever find out. On the other hand I know it’s wrong that someone else got fired for it. The senior attorney is still upset and embarrassed and everyone at the courthouse was talking about it. Should I stay quiet? If I own up hoe should I do it? Sorry for the questions, this is my first job as a lawyer and I don’t have anyone here I can talk to.

    (Excuse any formatting errors/typos. I am currently on mobile)

    • Anonymous

      Geez, what a crappy situation. So sorry. I understand that you feel awful about the paralegal getting fired, but I personally would not say anything. Even if you fess up, I don’t see the law firm going back and rehiring the paralegal, the damage has already been done. So there is no up side and potentially only a huge downside for you.

      I think you should chalk this up as a major learning lesson. I highly doubt that you’ll ever make such a mistake again, given what you just went through. Hugs.

      • Anonymous

        I think you absolutely have to disclose it. You essentially lied to save your own skin (by not confirming before stating it was her mistake). The paralegal knows it wasn’t her mess up, will almost 100 percent lawyer up and it’s going to come out in pre litigation. You could get sanctioned by the bar at that point because no one will believe it was an innocent mistake. I think you have to disclose even if it means you also need to resign.

        • Anonymous

          She said she “came to realize” the mistake was hers and that no one will ever find out unless she says something. To me, that’s in favor of not saying anything at this point.

          Telling her she could get sanctioned by the bar is just pure histrionics. And telling her to resign is crazy.

          • Anonymous

            I honestly think lying and getting someone fired would get you sanctioned by the bar.

          • cc

            I don’t think there is anyway to know that no one will find out- and to me this rises to the level of criminal activity. I am shocked by the people saying not to say anything, but maybe I was naive about the other attorneys I am going up against. I am not in a litigation heavy position but fully 100% expect the other side to be adhearing to the law and evidence rules. The response here makes me think I am just kidding myself.

            OP said it she blamed it on the paralegal because it couldn’t have been herself because she is always careful which to me is just trying to make it seem less worse. Everyone is careful, people just have different standards of careful and everyone drops the ball sometimes. She put in an email that it was the paralegals fault and the paralegal got fired for it. This means the paralegal is losing her income, getting no references, has to tell future employers she was fired, getting no severance pay, and losing out on unemployment. OP has fundamentally changed her life for the worst in a very, very real way. To me this is the same as a writer coming on here and saying they broke into their neighbors home and stole their antiques. I cannot believe people saying to just stay quiet. There is no way this doesn’t come back to bite her, and it absolutely is resign worthy- I think your reputation is shot at this firm and better to do it on your terms.

            Honestly there has been a few things lately that has kind of made me think that the readers of this site are a bunch of psychos, but nothing has shocked me to the core like the responses to this post. I am not trying to be hyperbolic, but there have been a few posts where the answers make me go “jesus thats cold” and thank god that the responders are not like my real life friends. How cruel and dishonest are you people? Of course you need to say something! You’ve ruined this womans life. Do whatever you can to fix it.

            OP- listen to your heart. You wouldn’t be posting if you thought you could live with this.

          • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

            Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. I don’t know if I am getting to know posters “better” or what, but I feel like I am from another planet a lot.

            I think it is best to assume opposing counsels are terrible people until they prove you wrong. In my experience, they rarely demonstrate otherwise.

            Kudos to the OP for even having a conscience. Now follow through. If you get fired for making an honest mistake as a first year, and fessing up about it, that sounds like a terrible place to work.

    • Senior Attorney

      This is horribly hard.

      But over dinner last weekend we were all talking about our rules for life, and a friend of mine proposed: “You know what the right thing is. So do it.” I think that’s a good rule.

      Tell the senior attorney what you told us, beg him/her to hire the paralegal back, and let the chips fall where they may.

      • Senior Attorney

        I would agree with Anonymous at 2:49 if it weren’t for the paralegal losing her job for something the OP did. I think the OP has an obligation to try to fix that.

      • New Anon

        I agree with Senior Attorney, particularly on the rules for life front. Also, though I think the paralegal is unlikely to be rehired (and might not want to be, anyway), I think you have a decent chance of getting her a better reference and generally making her life easier regarding filing for unemployment and searching for another job. Those are important things–you should step up.

    • Anonymous

      Unless you think fessing up will undo the paralegal’s firing, I wouldn’t say anything. That’s a tough spot to be in though, good luck.

    • KittyKat

      Don’t be a bad person. You know what you have to do even though it’s going to hurt.

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t say anything. The damage has already been done and falling on the sword at this point is only going to pointlessly ruin your career. Do some extra pro bono as penance and make sure it never happens again.

      • Anonymous

        But the damage can still be fixed- the firm won’t hire the paralegal back but she can fix the paralegals reputation/ references and it will impact severance agreement talks with her. I really don’t get all this “what’s done is done” talk. The woman’s not dead- this can be fixed. It is never too late to do what’s right- do it now before it catches up to you

        • Anon

          +1. I am just appalled by answers asking OP is be quiet. I doubt if people say the same if people can be in paralegal’s shoe for a second. Who knows what her situation is and how desperately she needed her job and now needs at least good references.

    • Anonymous

      If it were me, and I didn’t fess up, I would feel guilty forever. So, you’d be doing her and Future You a favor by telling.

    • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

      I agree about stepping up. Absolutely.

      A side point-I am surprised someone got fired for JUST this. Were there other problems with the paralegal too?

      • Anonymous

        yeah, this. chances are, you can’t know whether this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back, which it most likely was.

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t say anything. I don’t think she “got someone fired.” I’ve seen a lot of paralegals fired, and not one was fired for a single mistake. In every instance, it was a poorly performing paralegal and multiple significant mistakes (e.g., turning over a privileged document to the other side) were made before the firing.
      I think the people saying you could be sanctioned by the bar for something like this are insane. Have you ever practiced in large law firms? Blame-shifting is a daily occurrence and is the only way to survive.

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