Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Tasha Ruched Bodycon Midi Dress

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A woman wearing a blue  midi dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m loving this “ruched bodycon” dress from Reiss, even though I think the term “bodycon” has lost all meaning at this point. (I think the dress just … fits? Is that what bodycon means? Unclear.) The slight ruching and draped sleeves are super flattering, and I love having a go-to work dress in any color other than black.

Add a blazer if you want, but I think this one would be fine on its own in most offices.

The dress is $330 at Reiss and Bloomingdale's and comes in sizes 0–12.

A couple of more affordable alternatives are from J.Crew ($159.50 on sale; classic, petite, and tall sizes) and Brooks Brothers ($228, 0–16). City Chic has an option in plus sizes ($109, lucky sizes).

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

252 Comments

  1. This dress is lovely. And unless you size down from how it fits the model, not even close to being bodycon.

    Reposting from the tail end of the last thread: what music are you enjoying lately? I have a number of heads-down tasks looming and need something fresh in my playlist. Thanks!

    1. Kacey musgraves, so excited for the new album this week, and zach bryan for a country vibe. I recently started listening to Laufy, beautiful jazz vocals. For working, I like the pop goes classical playlist on spotify or a film score mix. For pop music, really like Tate mcCrae, olivia rodrigo, and sabrina carpenter. And i am always listening to Taylor swift.

    2. I am loving Tidal’s black country playlist right now. Not sure if there is something similar on Spotify etc.

    3. I have also been wanting to break out of my Taylor Swift rut (not that I don’t enjoy being there), and I’ve been revisiting the early/mid 10’s pop I loved at the time: fun., Nate Ruess’ solo album, Jess Glynne. And a friend recommended two very different albums: High Violet by the National, and The Horror and the Wild by the Amazing Devil.

      For focus, I like Soft ’10s and Piano Ballads on Spotify lately, and Fast Pop Run is good too.

    4. I might be the odd one here in that I cannot stand lyrics when I have heads-down tasks (for me they are as distracting as someone trying to have a conversation). I tend to play classical or other instrumentals. Right now I am really enjoying the Piano Guys.

      1. Same. Absolutely can’t concentrate on the task at hand when I can also music with lyrics.

    5. I have been listening to Say She She nonstop. Hard for me to describe but I think soul/disco and a fun relaxed vibe.

  2. I grew up in apartments, so no one in my family can help. If you have a house with an attic, do you try to not fall through the rafters (if that’s the right word)? Or is there a trade (carpenter?) I can ask to put down plywood sheets? Or is this where it is easier to rent a storage unit for things like Xmas decorations and whatnot? It’s an old house with barely any closets and the crawl space is not critter-proof.

    1. You could put in a plywood floor to support your items, but I wouldn’t store anything but outdoor items (window screens, etc.) in an unfinished attic because it gets very hot in the summer. Much of the insulation that keeps the interior of the house cool is between the rafters, which doesn’t help protect the stuff in the attic. The garage or even a shed will be safer than an attic.

      You don’t store things in an unfinished crawl space either.

      1. OP here — it is a weird hybrid cellar (dug out with concrete, where the hvac and water heater are). I’ve caught a mouse a year, but it is much easier to access. As we age, I guess we will lose access to anything not on the main level so not sure that this is a sustainable way to deal with my stuff (but I totally get the urge to put things away if seasonal or sentimental).

        1. If it’s an unfinished basement, as opposed to a crawl space, I would choose that for storage over an attic unless there are issues with moisture.

          1. +1

            Be sure to ask your neighbors about risks for basement flooding in your area. You may need to use a dehumidifier down there too or else fungus can grow…

        2. I have a similar basement and use it for storage. There are screens on the vents to prevent critters from hopping in easily. Most things go into a Really Useful Box for protection and organization that then gets stacked on the concrete floor.

      2. Yeah, my husband went into the crawl space to install a fan and fell through our bedroom closet.

    2. You can hire a handyman to lay plywood if you’d like – do you have a community Facebook page? Anything you store in the attic needs to be able to withstand summer heat (so no Christmas candles, but perfectly fine for a fake wreath) and boxed in a good plastic tub with a lid (like Rubbermaid).

      1. I live in New Orleans, and last summer was so hot, we had several Christmas decorations ruined because the glue or paint melted! The fake wreath was stored in the garage, and it was a little tattered because some of the glue holding it together melted.
        Hopefully, that’s a one-off, because everything is back in the garage and attic this year. Maybe we’ll try to rescue it over the summer if it gets too hot.

    3. We do not use our attic for storage and the insulation is too deep to lay plywood over the rafters without building a jig to keep it from compressing the insulation. We do have a few boards (not plywood, just random 2x10s) perpendicular over some rafters to provide access to certain areas. It is definitely a bit precarious because if you misstep, you would go through the ceiling drywall below.

      If we wanted to store things up there I would probably choose one spot that was easy to reach from the access point, place a few boards, and then stack my storage items in that one spot. I would not plywood the whole attic, and I would DIY this. However, my attic is not conditioned space and gets so hot in the summer I would be concerned things would warp from the heat.

    4. Any handy person should be able to attach plywood to the ceiling joists. It’s a very low skill job, especially if it’s just for storage

    5. I have a large attic with a full floor and it does get very hot in summer (and very cold in winter), yet I haven’t had any items get ruined due to the heat. It’s an older house with very little insulation. There are a couple of automated exhaust fans that keep it a little cooler. I wouldn’t worry about things like dishware getting ruined by heat, but we have all our luggage, plus old books and plastic items, and they are absolutely fine.

      1. +1 We store clothes, baby gear, books, etc and it’s all been fine. Meanwhile, we stored one baby car seat in the basement and it was mildewed when we pulled it back out (we had a dehumidifier, but basements in New England get DAMP). The items in my unfinished attic stayed in great condition.

      2. Yeah. Old house, attic had virtually no insulation but we keep all sorts of things in storage there (clothes being stored for hand me downs, furniture, holiday decorations, books, wrapping supplies, old toys, etc). Haven’t had any issues yet (have been in the house for nearly 30 years).

        I’d say maybe not electronics, but we stored a TV and some DVDs in there for a few years and it was fine.

    6. Put down plywood yourself. If you cover a large area, it becomes pretty sturdy. And YMMV, but we stored tons of stuff in our unfinished attic in our last house, and it fared better than anything we put in our basement. The unfinished basement was more prone to mildew and mold; even though the attic got hot and muggy in the summer, it was properly ventilated so we never had any issue. It was an amazing source of storage.

    7. Can you use plastic latchable containers in the crawlspace? You’d want anything down there to be in a waterproof container anyway, in case it floods. We live in the country so we have mice, stinkbugs, wood roaches, flies, etc, and not had a problem with our plastic containers at all.

    8. Just FYI, the attic is not critter-proof, either. We’ve had bats, squirrels, rats and mice at one time or another until we had a pest control company do an “exclusion treatment,” which involved sealing up all sorts of nooks and crannies. It was worth it. This was for a house built in the late 70s or early 80s.

      Another FYI if you are new to home ownership: is your attic insulated, or has the insulation settled over the years? Replacing or blowing in new insulation can dramatically affect your home’s comfort and your utility bills. You can blow insulation in yourself and then get to feel very smug when your heating or cooling bill drops the next month.

    9. We laid down plywood (though never stand on it – crawl only) and store things in closed plastic containers up there.

    10. I have an attic. My husband floored it with plywood. This is a great chance to roll in some insulation between the joists.

      1. Ps we store anything and everything in the attic. Most of it is in some sort of plastic tub, but not all of it. We have pull down stairs and my kids used to play up there when they were little!

    11. Flooring an attic is not as simple as just nailing down some plywood on the ceiling joists. Unless you are flooring an area that was designed to be load bearing, you must reinforce it. A professional can add more ceiling joists. To DIY it, the best way is to add long pieces of wood perpendicular to the joists to help spread the load, and then screw the plywood onto them.

      Google and YouTube are your friends here. You can easily find a tutorial. Even with the cross pieces, if the ceiling joists were not designed to be load bearing you would do well to limit what you put in the attic, and to load near the eaves and leave the center unloaded, as the weight of the flooring alone is going to be all that the center needs to hold. Even with that, you may see Sheetrock seams make themselves known in the ceiling of the room below, just from the weight of the flooring. I wouldn’t DIY or handyman an attic floor anywhere except over a garage where aesthetics are not such an issue.

  3. Readers who have done independent consulting/contract work: What are the norms regarding payment? I have been doing contract work for the past few months. So far I’ve had two clients, both major institutions with zero cash flow issues, large accounting departments, and well-established procedures for dealing with contractors. Client #1 had me do a piece of work for a flat rate and fill out a bunch of accounting paperwork including a direct deposit form. This client did not want an invoice; the contact was supposed to initiate payment on their end when the work was completed. (This is a small task for which the institution regularly hires all sorts of people who don’t typically do contract work, so they have well-established procedures to make it easy for the contractors.) The work was completed two months ago, payment has not been made, and both the contact for the work and the accounting contact are ignoring my e-mails. For client #2 I am working on several projects and invoicing them regularly for time and travel expenses. I do not have a billing contact in the accounting department, just the administrator for the department for which I’m doing the work. This client insists that it can only pay contractors by paper check. These checks keep getting delayed or “lost in the mail.” When the system actually does work, invoices seem to be paid within two weeks. I have now been waiting six weeks on my last invoice and cannot get a straight answer as to whether the department administrator even submitted it to accounting. The most concerning part is that this institution wants me to continue fronting travel costs out of my own pocket while it fails to reimburse me for previous travel or pay me for previous work.

    For comparison, my husband used to do contract work through a contracting firm, and in my previous W-2 position I used to hire contractors directly to work on my projects. In all that time I never once witnessed an issue with contractor payments. Is the level of delay and non communication I’m now seeing normal? Any tips for actually getting paid other than hounding my contacts, which is not working? I am at the point where I think I need to just give up and find another W-2 position.

    1. I am seeing this a lot recently. I’ve consulted for 8 years and only in the past 6 months has it been an issue. Like you, the clients are financially stable. I even made a linkedin post about it because it’s across at least 3 clients.

      I’ve changed my practices to net 15 and also for most clients to requiring 60/40 as opposed to 40/60 and I’ve raised my rates 5-10%. If I have to chase the payment, I’m now building that into my fees. I should not have to corner the CFO’s admin to get her to harass accounts payable for the check AP told me was already cut three weeks ago!

      1. If you put “net15” on the invoice and they don’t pay within 15 days, what’s your remedy? A due date seems meaningless. The only leverage I have is threatening to stop work until they pay, and that seems like the nuclear option.

        1. I am at a large institution that fits your client descriptions. Our whole financial system is byzantine and it takes years to understand who to contact and how to nudge things forward when a payment is stuck.
          At my place, you would be perfectly within reason to stop work when you are not getting paid, it would not be seen as some crazy escalation!

        2. I am on the flip side of this as I am a lawyer who hires investigators and other vendors on occassion. I will get a “invoice due upon receipt” and then harrassed if it is not in the mail in two days. As a solo, I am writing my own checks and need to be very careful with my trust accounting! These are people who are needing their money but I have a hard time switching from brief writing brain to admin brain at the drop of a hat. Not sure how top handle it going foward. Maybe I need to put something in my retainer letter that invoices will be paid with 15 days?

    2. Absolutely terrible, and I agree with the comment that you likely need to change your approach. Unlike when you’re an employee, these companies don’t need to pay you on time so you need to take steps to make sure it happens. Higher rates, invoice with net 10 or 15, penalties for late payment, stop work in the absence of payment, etc. That will help but won’t cure things. I’d also enlist the support and voice of the person who cares the most about the work you’re doing for the companies- have them raise the issue internally to get you paid.

      1. I have a comment in mod, but that last line is very good strategy sometimes too. We had to employ a nuclear option – stop work on current projects – with a customer who owned us a bunch of money and they were over 9 months late. I had to apologetically explain to an outside consultant that I could no longer work on the project for the mutual client until the client paid their account in full. He understood, and contacted his person and it went through a completely different channel of people, and we started to see movement. We are still going to require 100% downpayment for future projects for a while though; they can take or leave us.

    3. Not an independent contractor, but really familiar with my small company’s A/R – eventually I will take over supervising that department. The scaling is going to be different for our small company than your independent contracting, so take or leave some of below. But very used to dealing with invoices, terms, and other companies and what your’e experiencing isn’t abnormal.

      Most of our customers are great at paying, but I think the 80/20 rule really applies to AR – we spend 80% of their time chasing 20% of the invoices/customers. Big companies are the worst thinking that they can dictate their terms – net 60 or net 90 instead of our required net 30 that’s on invoices and the proposals (that they accept). We push back on this quite hard – Net 30 means Net 30. We are okay with walking away from a customer if they aren’t going to meet our terms. The worst is that they’ll say they do and then they don’t meet the terms anyway, so then we strengthen our terms and make it more clear during proposals that we mean Net 30 when we say it. We started requiring downpayment for projects over a certain value; I thought there would be much more pushback but there was essentially none. That was really helpful with cashflow. You may build in finance charges for long overdue invoices – although you probably need to spell this out in your proposal terms.

      So there are options, and you will get better at incorporating them, but I think you also may need to become comfortable with chasing invoices. And hopefully get a few more clients that are excellent at paying, so it’s not a consistent pain point across all of them. It makes it loads easier (and sometimes very exasperating) when 80% of the customers are fantastic.

    4. When one of my clients is behind on payment to me, I first email the accounting contact. Second email, if needed, goes to accounting contact and my client/business side contract. I will not continue working for someone who is not paying me. My invoices are due in 30 days, so if we go past 60 I stop all work.

      Do not go out of pocket for someone who isn’t paying you. Absolutely no.

        1. Not true in my industry. Everyone answers the phone, or calls you back if they can’t answer.

      1. You don’t have the record of outreach attempts then and documentation of the individual stating the outcome. Email also can aid chasing on the other end. I’ve worked for horrible employers where I’ve had to hire and pay freelance writers. I always appreciated the chain. “Dear payroll, this is my third correspondence from this writer who needs to be paid. Is there any way we can expedite check cutting?” Calling me would have resulted in me needing to chase down the invoice info and write a fresh email. I don’t mind doing that, and it’s just one more barrier to getting paid and upping the likelihood of falling off the radar.

        OP, have you considered using QuickBooks software? I had a freelancer use that (or similar) and it would send automated messages reminding me that I needed to view the invoice or that an invoice was outstanding. I will definitely use that if I’m on the freelancing side again. Automated chasing (at least on the initial nudges), helps keep you top of mind without having to repeatedly call.

  4. When you let your boss know you are using PTO, are you asking permission or just notifying? “I’m not feeling well, I need to take this afternoon off” vs “I’m not feeling well. Can I take this afternoon off?” For vacations, “I will be on vacation April 1-5” vs “Can I take April 1-5 off for vacation?”

    1. For sick time, you inform. For vacation it depends on your company’s norms and procedures.

    2. We have a PTO tracking system in our HR portal where I submit my request and my manager approves it. The PTO policy is generous and I am encouraged to use it, so while this is technically a request nothing ever gets denied. If the timing falls on a date that could cause workflow issues I have a conversation with my manager before submitting the request, but it is more of a courtesy notice that I am aware of the deadline and will mitigate it by completing the work early, delegating to my approved backup person in advance, etc. If I am not feeling well I just tell my manager as much and wrap up early. I do not abuse this and it has never been an issue.

    3. I inform rather than request but would request if it was something outside our org’s norms for taking vacation (like a 2-3 week trip).

    4. I do a middle ground for advanced planning of “I’m planning to be out…” and provide dates a few months before. I’ve never been told no, but also leave open the possibility of stuff I don’t know about.
      sickness/kid sickness/etc? just heads up I’ll be out

    5. For sick/personal emergency, I just say I’ll be out. For vacation I might check in ahead of time (before booking the trip), if it’s longer (“I’m thinking of taking 2 weeks off mid June, does that work?”) because sometimes they’re might be something big in the pipe my manager knows about and I don’t.
      When I officially put in a pto request into our tracking software, the comments field is optional so I don’t say anything at all
      Don’t overthink this — if your boss wants request phrasing, that’s them being weird but it takes 1/2 a second to do it their way

    6. I generally ask if it means my boss will have to provide backup coverage if there’s something my team can’t handle – so it’s more of an awareness they may get a request if I’m out for more than a day or so. Example – “Hey Boss, I plan to take the last week of March off. My team will be present / in office and I’ll provide a quick status update via email to you before I head out to make sure you’re up to date if anything urgent comes through. Is this ok?”. I don’t ask permission or really tell anyone if I’m out for the afternoon or even a day if I’m going to be able to keep an eye on email a couple of times – I just pop an out of office up.

    7. For vacations, I submit my requests in our HR portal and then send boss an email that I’ll be out from X through Y. For vacations greater than one week, I give a lot of notice (several months) but that’s not a common situation for me.

      For illness, I email him directly and then take care of the HR portal once I’m back.

    8. I let them know unless there is some question of logistics or it’s super last minute and not an emergency. Eg. on Tuesday, “I was thinking of taking Friday off, any issues with that?” If it’s a planned vacation more than a month out, then it’s just an FYI. Typically “I’ll be on vacation X-Y, let me know if there are any issues” or I sent a calendar invite for the dates I’ll be gone and assume she’ll reach out if there are issues. Some of it depends on where I’m going and for how long and if it’s during our busy season.

      Emergency stuff or illness it’s just a straight “death in the family, i’ll be out until X” or “Not feeling well, I’ll be out today. If there is anything urgent please text me and i’ll do my best to respond.”

    9. I inform, unless I’m planning to take time off during a critical time.
      A few years ago I got a chance to take an all-expenses paid vacation to a resort but the trip was just before my company’s version of the Super Bowl – in that case I ran it by my leader who gave her enthusiastic support before I confirmed the trip.

    10. Once I figured out the norms, I inform.

      Some jobs I’ve had require coverage (some 24/7 and some just every M-F) so I request for popular times, like the holiday season.

      My current job doesn’t have that requirement (for my team, other teams do) so I just inform.

      Honesty, I’m at the point in my life (30) where most of my PTO is for weddings and bachelorettes, so the dates I’m taking off are very firm.

    11. At my company, it’s the norm to inform. I just send an Outlook meeting with the days I’ll be out. I make it an all day event and mark it as free.

    12. I inform for illness/medical appointments but ask for other reasons. It’s pretty much a formality and the answer would never be no, but it helps my boss feel in charge.

    13. I split the difference: I notify but put in a “please let me know if there are any concerns” for vacation; I don’t ask about sick time.

    14. Sick time is usually last minute and not planned so that’s usually an inform situation. Vacations most places I’ve worked you have to plan in advance so that your manager can make sure not everyone is on vacation at the same time basically.

    15. Our company policy is that I’m required to have my vacation approved by my boss, so I ask. She always responds within a few minutes, and she’s never denied a request. We have “unlimited” PTO, and I intend to take 4 weeks a year.

  5. So, performance review question. Context: Senior associate, BigLaw niche practice, 2 years out of being eligible for income partnership. I had my review yesterday and was told essentially that as things are right now, I wouldn’t be admitted to partnership. My technical skills are great, clients really like me, I have a reasonable book for an associate (not huge but $75-125k/yr). The reason I wouldn’t be eligible is because my hours are low, and I’m struggling with the practice management side of things.

    I don’t have anyone to delegate to since there aren’t any juniors in my group, and to I dropped a couple of balls last year when my husband passed and I went back to work too soon instead of taking time off. I’m also a WOC with a physical disability and I find it hard sometimes to deal with all of the BS that comes with that and not be exhausted.

    So, is it time to search for a new job or is it time to buckle down and get my hours up and focus on my practice management ? I’m tempted to try and buckle down for another year and see how next year’s review goes, if only for the money and because I actually quite like the work, but I also don’t know if I should be focusing instead on my next move.

    1. Get out. There is so much more to life than this firm. A white man whose hours were down one year because his wife died would not be in this spot.

    2. Is there a non-partner slot that would make sense? If I could get a PT couple type job I’d gladly take it. And then you can figure the rest out.

    3. I’m not a lawyer so forgive my ignorance – if you don’t make partner, do they expect you to leave? Like even if you’re otherwise good at what you do and are liked by clients?

      1. yes – it’s an up or out model for the most part. Some people negotiate an “of counsel” role when aging out of being an associate, where business development expectations are lower, but so is comp.

        1. This is really firm dependent. More and more firms are moving away from an up or out model. It’s exhausting and wasteful to train up good lawyers who do good work only to push them out because they’ll never have a book. It’s never made sense to me and I’m glad that now the powers that be are finally tuning into the fact that their business model is a good way to make sure their work doesn’t get done.

          1. I think I can co-sign this. Except we are basically not hiring first years (only 1-2 for groups that tend to know there will be a need) because we can get a third/fourth year leaving a sweatshop who is well-trained and eager to work. We are BigLaw, but lower down and more of a lifestyle than the V15 or whatever it is. We lose so much $ on first years and most big clients won’t pay for their work anyway. If someone scales comp according to productivity, SMEs should work out OK in transactional work. Not sure if this model works for big litigation or people working for publicly traded companies, etc.

      2. For the most part yes, although sometimes if you’re very good at the substantive work but not at the business side you can stay on in a “counsel” role – essentially a lifetime senior associate.

    4. One year of higher hours is not going to trump 6 or so years of low hours, so I would not expect to make partner based on one good year. I think the bigger question is whether you are willing to work those higher hours for the next several years. If not, I would look for a job with a lower hourly requirement or expect to go on a non-income partner track. Absent a big book of business, BigLaw cares about nothing more than hours billed and/or collected.

      1. This is the first year I haven’t hit target; I normally don’t exceed it by a huge amount but have previously at least met it.

        1. So the “low hours” was just the year your husband died? Wow. Do you want to work for these people?

          1. Yeah- firms aren’t known for their sympathy for personal circumstances. There’s a reason the pay is so high.

          2. Yeah, that is bad. I actually think most Big Law firms would be sympathetic and overlook low hours for one year due to death of a spouse. Mine certainly was. [It was not my spouse, but someone in my department.]

      2. +1. Firms only care about the bottom line. My group put me up for partner (biglaw) a few years ago. I had super high hours every year, checked all the other boxes, and was told I shouldn’t having any issue making partner.

        That was until 2 days before the partnership announcement. I didn’t make partner because my group had a really slow year and the cases I worked on were not profitable (no fault of my own, as the partnership committee told me – it was for a variety of reasons including poor management by a senior partner).

        End of the day, my really high hours and all the thousands of hours of pro bono and firm chargeable work didn’t matter. I regret staying as long as I did to see if I could make partner – that last year was not worth it. Needless to say, I left soon after.

    5. I’m an ex-Biglaw partner, now senior in-house counsel. I think your question is one only you can answer. Do you *want* another job right now? Do you feel like you can, and want to, do what it takes to turn this around? It is really about what you want at this level of seniority, and no one else can give you the answer to that.

      FWIW, I left Biglaw as an income partner, when I looked at what it would take to make equity and decided that would be an absolutely miserable experience and I didn’t care enough to do it. I hung on until I got an in-house job offer that I liked, and never looked back. So there is no shame, at all, in deciding you don’t want to put in the effort this would take. Putting in effort is only commendable if it’s in service of a goal you actually want to achieve.

      1. I fully intend to hang out at my firm as an income partner until I retire early with no plans to try for equity on the theory it’s just not worth it to me personally given my life situation. (There’s no expectation of up and out at my firm, so this is doable). Pretty sure equity is the definition of pie eating contest where the prize is more pie, so I agree with the “do you want to do this” comments.

    6. I’d walk but it took a lot less than that for me to leave biglaw. Go to a regional firm where you can walk your book or in-house. They’re telling you you’ll never make partner, the reasons aren’t relevant or some you can fix. If they were, you wouldn’t be hearing it in a review.

      1. Co sign this. I tried to push back and it got me pushed out albeit as an income partner. As it turns out the same thing happened to two other women before me. It was a pretty hard time in my life and I wish I had controlled my own destiny earlier. They did let me stay until I found a job, but it was humiliating. There was one person (man) in particular who wielded a lot of power and he was behind this. I think my allies helped me by arguing for a long runway. I was undergoing infertility treatments at the time which was hard.

        I am in a much better place now. In house, promoted several times, and my salary is close to when I left. My work life balance is better.

        I am sorry for your loss and that your firm is jerky.

        1. I was in a similar position too, and wholly co-sign the reasons aren’t relevant. After spending 18 months exploring if I could change their mind, I found a better job and am so much happier. It’s one of those, when people show you who they are, believe them.

    7. You’ll never make partner, the hours thing was just a convenient excuse because you’re not the ‘type’ they want as partner. (I say this as a disabled woman, but I am white passing, unless I mention my family’s country of origin).

    8. Year 6 is a good time to move. You’re senior enough that you don’t require much training but you still have plenty of time to develop relationships and make partner. If your current firm is telling you you’re not going to make partner and they’re not giving you alternatives (like counsel or similar) then I’d take that as a pretty clear sign that they don’t value you. Best to get a fresh start. The only reason you might hesitate is if you think you’re not in a position to give a new job your best — in which case I’d hold off until you get your feet back under you. Very sorry for your loss.

    9. If you want another job – then take that route.

      If you want to stay and make partner, know it will be an uphill battle and be more than 2 years and you would benefit from a larger book. You must get all hours every month, partners will be looking for reasons not to have you and saying “she crammed it all in at year end” can be a reason. You can likely rebound but it will be hard and will take longer than you think and you will need allies. Allies should maybe hear one time from you “Last year was really hard for me. When my husband passed away, I probably should have taken more time off but I wanted to get back to work. I am committed to making this work here. What do I need to do to earn trust back and get enough work to hit my hours?” Etc etc. Should you have to do this? No. Do you? Probably, if you want to make partner there.
      M

    10. It was sort of alluded to in some of the responses, but please strongly consider your next move! I know there can be a strong preference for “only BigLaw” but especially if you think income/equity partner is not in the cards, and you’d be staying in a counsel role, consider in-house positions! I have always made about the same in-house as my partner who is in a law firm counsel role-well respected with plenty of work-but in the past few years, my salary has doubled and while theirs has stayed roughly the same. I think I have far less stress too, although my management role adds to that. There are some decently lucrative positions in house!

  6. Anyone else realize they want a life the complete opposite of their mother’s? I’m starting to realize this.

    1. I didn’t realize it until I was in the middle of it, but yes – she was a young SAHM that quit her job to raise us in the suburbs and even now as an empty-nester is very much a homebody. I always thought I’d end up similar although likely working rather than SAH, but I fell in love with city living when I went to an urban college and never left; DINKs who originally envisioned having kids but when it didn’t work out we realized we were just as happy without them; travel frequently.

      Mom doesn’t ‘get’ a lot of my life but interestingly I’ve gotten a lot closer with my dad, who was a busy business traveler until retirement!

    2. Yes, and my mother’s unwillingness to accept that is the reason I cut her out of my life.

      My own daughter wants a life different from my own. Sometimes I don’t like or agree with her choices, but I am fully supportive of her autonomy and ability to decide for herself.

    3. Ha! I’ve known that I was the complete and utter opposite of my mother since I was about three years old. It’s actually only in my 40s that I’ve started to come back around to appreciating that while our personalities and interests are totally different, we do actually have most of the same fundamental values in common and that people like her do a lot of good in the world, even if I have no desire (or ability) to be like her personally (I’ve always recognized the second part, but I think I value it more with age).

    4. I knew that before I even graduated high school and then somehow got myself into the exact same situation.

    5. It’s a common thread throughout the history of feminist thought that women look down on their mothers and want to be different from them. Kids of both sexes also tend to see their mothers as mothers and their fathers as people. Then women often have kids and understand a lot more about why their mothers behaved certain ways. It will be interesting to see what happens as more and more women go childfree by choice (which was hardly a thing just a generation or two ago).

      1. So as a feminist, I’m obligated to endorse my mother’s misogyny? Because she is a raging misogynist.

          1. Whether or not I’m the exception or the rule, maybe consider that plenty of people have problems with their parents that don’t boil down to feminist talking points.

            I also just think you’re blaming kids for the patriarchy (for lack of a better term). Societally, we spent centuries treating mothers like Mommies with no dreams, achievements, goals, or wants of their own. Kids correctly intuited that their fathers get to be people and their mothers do not. Why blame the kids for picking up on the misogyny, instead of placing the blame squarely where it belongs – on the adults who create and perpetuate that nonsense?

      2. This is really interesting. I’ve never understood the reverence that some people/cultures have toward their mom, I’ve always butted heads with mine. I see her as emotionally stunted, intentionally helpless, and completely out of touch with the most basic fundamentals of human interaction. I’m 40 and I think she “doesn’t get it” just as much if not more than when I was 14. My father isn’t in my life but my stepfather is almost as bumbling and clueless as my mother. I don’t think I see him as a person or parental figure so much as a particularly exasperating extension of my mother. I also don’t have kids (yet) so we’ll see if my attitude changes!

      3. I think about this quote a lot:
        “Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate.” – Bonnie Burstow

        I was very close to my father growing up. I love him dearly still, but I see him differently now that I am a mother, now that I have so much more in common with my own mom. And I can’t help but wonder if all the things I looked down my nose at my mom for were just her surviving, if her inability to “reason as they do” was just exhaustion and burnout from Doing It All, All the Time.

        1. I think the out of touchness comes from not having adult/peer interactions in a collaborative environment like school or work. You have to keep up with the latest broader societal trends, technology, how business people think – you have to be current. The bubbles of work and school overlap more than the bubble of a SAHM. I think moms who work probably won’t have the same experience.

          1. You’re not wrong, but my mom did work, and she and my father worked in virtually the same environment, (both teachers in the same school), so in their case you’d think she’d be exposed to the same broader societal trends, tech, etc. that he was.

        2. I love that quote. That was definitely my childhood, and I see history repeating itself now that I have a daughter.

      4. I’m probably not a feminist, then, if that’s the case. I am a survivor of child abuse and have never seen my father as a person, and while mother and I did butt heads a lot, and I wanted a very different life, I always saw her as a person and didn’t look down on her, even before I became an adult and understood why she behaved the way she did.

      5. I don’t look down on my mother, but that doesn’t mean I want the same life she had.

    6. I am living a life opposite of hers! She was married at 23, two kids by 27, never worked after getting pregnant. I’m 38, single, childless.

    7. Yes and no? My mom had kids and did the whole suburban sports mom thing because it was socially expected, I don’t think she *wanted* to be a mom. I’m an urban living forever DINK, I think if my mom truly had a choice she would have also been an urban DINK.

      1. I don’t think my mom wanted to be a mom either, and I think that really had an impact on me, because I don’t have kids and I’m pretty sure I don’t want to have them.

        1. I grew up with babysitters and was a latch key kid from about age 10 onward. I don’t think my mom did any actual parenting of me. She loves to take credit for me being a successful adult though.

      2. 36, partnered, childless and had the same mom. When her last kid went to college she moved (single, post-divorce) to a major city and seems like she is now living the life she was meant to live much earlier. I do feel for my mom but it was also hard growing up with this mom.

      3. I don’t feel like I look down on my mother, but I wish she’d had more choices in her early life (born 1943, had three kids by the early 1970s).

        I think she did want us, but I also think she might have been happier had she gone to college and had a bit of a career before doing that. She went to secretarial school and then had a job that she really enjoyed (where she met my dad) until she got pregnant and was made to quit.

        1. My mom had a similar trajectory but she was widowed young and went back to work (in her 50s). She had a whole second act that she really enjoyed and worked until she was 70. Promoted several times, started at the bottom with no college degree. She had her issues for sure don’t we all but I miss her every day and think she could have had more happiness if she’d returned to work sooner.

      4. I think my mom wanted to be a mom, but I got the sense growing up that a fair number of my friends’ mothers did not. They just did it because that’s what you did in the 80s when you got married. Let’s just say it definitely informed my decision to be childfree-by-choice (and yes, I want a life completely different from my mother and figured that out very early).

      5. My mother also had kids because it was the expectation. While she did love us, I don’t think she would have had us if she had lived in different time or place.
        It was no longer as much of a societal expectation when we came of age (late 90s/early00s), and my sibling and I had kids because we wanted them.

    8. Yup. Complete 180 from her and it’s caused so many problems. I get on well with my father.

      1. Aren’t we living more like Dads? They grew up with all careers open to them and with the idea that marriage or kids wouldn’t limit their prospects at work. Our moms likely didn’t have that and it colored their choices (if then even had choices to begin with).

        1. This is so untrue. Marriage does not limit a woman’s career prospects the way it once did, but kids most certainly do. Even if you have a ton of hired help or a SAHD doing all the kid stuff, if your employer knows you have kids you will be expected to be even more available and perform at an even higher level than the men just to prove that you aren’t slacking because of the kids. And the current reality is that even moms with SAHDs have to do more parenting and household labor than men with SAHMs at home ever did.

    9. I’m not so sure my mother wanted the life she got.

      She was from an era and background where she was lucky to be educated as a girl. Even then, her choices were secretary, nurse, or teacher (she chose teacher). I could have been her, had I been born elsewhere or at a different time. [I joke, maybe a tavern keeper, but IMO those were usually widows and it likely wasn’t a jolly life.] I saw how hard teaching was and I’m not surprised that now that women have more options, they chose other professions or to go up the ladder in health care (so opting for RN and college vs LPN at a nursing school).

      She taught me how to drive stick shift and to sew and to play piano (which she does not do herself, which I didn’t question at the time), so she was very competent in many areas.

    10. Oh yes, very much yes. My mother didn’t get a great chance at life, and has been very unhappy because of it. I’m so glad I got an education.

    11. The older I get the more I realize I want a life like hers.

      But, as a teacher she was able to maintain her career while being a very hands on parent (there were probably less than 10 days a year where she worked and the kids didn’t have school and our school days had the same schedule so no after care). She and my dad maintained great social lives. My dad maintained his hobbies and my mom didn’t really, so I’d like to be better at hobbies than her. I love the town I grew up in (working class, walkable close in suburb of a big city) and will probably settle down in that town or a neighboring one. We were comfortable growing up, but I would like to be financially more sound than my parents (having money to outsource things like home repairs or cleaning would be great; I grew up in a house where we never once paid someone to do something we could do ourselves). Most importantly, because she lived near family and so everyone did a lot of pinch hitting for each other, which is something I hope for.

      Things I’d do differently:
      – my parents got married and had kids younger than I will. My mom was married at 25 and had kids at 29 and 32… I am 29 and single so clearly out timelines are different.
      – my dad’s family is … eccentric and my mom certainly had some in law issues I hope to avoid. Or course, you can pick your spouse but not their family so who knows how I’ll end up there.
      – as mentioned above, I hope to have more money than my parents but seeing as I’m single, not sure what my future household income might be. I make more than either of my parents now, but they bought a house 31 years ago so they got a much better deal than I will. I also
      Might become a teacher down the road, which would lower my income.

      My mom is a bad@$s with a pretty nice life, so I’m okay ending up like her.

      1. And adding that she chose teaching because she wanted to, not because she was boxed into it. She took a few finance classes in college, her professor asked her to consider switching her major and she said no, I love teaching / working with kids and I have no desire to work in finance.

    12. I have more or less made choices so as to be the opposite of my parents, particularly my mother. Granted she’s an abusive narcissist so it wasn’t a high bar.

    13. While you couldn’t pay me a five million dollars to live my Mom’s life, I do admire and strive for the deep friendships and passion for causes she has. She’s really confident in the “I’m who I am, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea and that’s okay” sort of way. I strive every day to be as authentically myself as she is herself though it looks very different for each of us.

    14. I wish my life was more like my mom’s. We’re complete opposites. She made her way out of poverty by pushing herself really hard and then had a job with free nights and weekends and was always doing weird hobbies and fun trips with my dad. I feel like I don’t have the same drive as much as I wish I could and despite a high title and pay feel like all I do is slog along at my job and have little free time. My husband and I have different interests and rarely spend weekend time together. I think maybe a lot of these differences are generational.

    15. Yes and no. My mom was a SAHM who was disappointed she never had a real job after college because she got married young and had kids quickly; she loved being a mom though and was a fabulous mom. However, she wanted to make sure her kids had educations consistent with having jobs that would enable them to support themselves if they wanted or needed to do so. I’m a DINK lawyer who never wanted kids. So in that way, my life is very different from hers.
      However, my mom was a wonderful homemaker (her term) and voracious reader of everything. Purging her books after she died made me realize just how smart and inquisitive she was. She was interested in everything including history, philosophy, theologies, religions, travel, languages, poetry, fiction, cooking, human behavior, etc. I wish I were curious the way that she was and wanted to read all of the books she left behind.

    16. Yes. My mom put herself and her happiness and career first and saw kids more as a sidekick, and I saw how it negatively affect me and I am trying to do things in a more balanced way with my kids.

    17. I’ll be the outlier in the responses and say no just so you have another data point! My mom’s life is so impressive to me – came from a solidly middle class family, first person in the family to ever get a professional degree (med school) at a time when women still didn’t really do that, raised two kids (one of whom had profound disabilities and was medically complex) while working (not always full time and with some breaks) and, when working full time, was the breadwinner since she selected a highly-paid specialty. She is so smart, kind, and tenacious and always does everything the right way even when it requires more effort. We have extremely different personalities, our relationship is not perfect, and she can drive me crazy, but I absolutely want my life to look like hers and admire her choices. I am about to have my first child (a daughter) and I hope I can live up to her example. Typing this all out makes me realize that I need to write this down in a mother’s day card for her this year.

      1. Aw yes you should write that in her card!

        I’m also a nope. My moms life is also impressive to me. She maintained a big career while also carving out a lot of time to spend with me, and now at 74 she’s still working part time (by choice, not financial necessity) but devoting seemingly endless time to her grandchildren, who adore her and want to spend every moment with her. My parents were frugal and have amassed huge wealth and take amazing vacations. Her life is fabulous and she fully deserves it!

      2. Please tell her this, tell her soon, and tell her many times the things you think make her amazing. Being a parent is so hard, and we can all look back and wish our parents did things differently. But I really think that thanking parents for the things they did well and the things we think are impressive about them is important. I mean, I’d want my kids to tell me those things in 20 years!

      3. I think I won the mom lottery. While my mother’s life differed from mine in many details, I always felt empowered and supported in my choices. I fear sometimes I was too judgmental when I was younger, but I aged out of that.

        Also, all these posters who think there mothers did not have choices: how old are the women you are talking about? Unless they were born before 1950, I am perplexed.

        1. I think a lot of people here do have moms of that generation… I’m only 38 but my mom was born in 1952. She worked but it was unusual. I also don’t think there was complete freedom of choice until a lot later than the 50s. Even now lots of fields are still male dominated.

        2. Age isn’t the only factor in not having choices. Place of birth, socioeconomic status, family/culture expectaions can all play a roll in what choices are available to a woman.

        3. Yeah I’m surprised by this too. My mom was born in the early 60s and it was expected that she’d go to college and have a career. She happened to choose to be a teacher, but she could have majored in anything. FWIW, her brother is a teacher and her sister (born in 1951) majored in business. All 3 siblings were college athletes.

          But, both of my grandmothers (born in the early-mid 1920s) were college graduates with careers. They both played high school sports growing up.

          In fact, my one grandmother was a civilian in the DOD and met my grandfather because she was his boss! Both grandmothers took time off when they had young kids but both went back to work as the kids were older.

    18. Since this thread is so anti-Mom, I’ll throw it out there that my mom, born in early 1950’s, had her kids in her early 20’s, then went back to school and had a professional career. Her jobs were different than mine, her schooling different than mine, but she gets where I’m coming from for the most part. She’s supported me and my sister to the extent distance permits. What I’m saying is, we can break the cycle with our own daughters. Also, my MIL (born early 1940s) worked for much of her kids childhood and is also supportive.

    19. My mother and I are very different people, so while I did make some of the same choices she did, overall I have lived a very different life.

    20. I’ll join the nope train, in that I don’t want the *complete* opposite.

      Things I’m okay replicating from my mom’s life: chasing her passions, sharing them with us kids, finding ways to keep her professional hand in even when she was a SAHM for a while, giving everything she did her all, not listening to external pressures when making choices for her family

      Things I’m trying to avoid: in-law issues, acceptance of a very gendery status quo in her marriage but buckets of resentment about it, lack of friends and hobbies that is biting her in the butt as an empty-nester

    21. Yes, but it took a bit to realize it wasn’t just teenage/early 20s rebellion. I waited until my late 30s to find my husband, married at 42 for the first time. No kids. Live in an apartment, in an inner ring suburb of a “big city”, and my focus is on my career, side hustles/hobbies, travel, etc.
      However, my mom divorced in her 30s and jumped with both feet into a career + travel–doing things she never thought she would and gaining tons of life experience. Sadly around age 60 or so she got lonely after leaving her long term BF and religion got her. Now she sits in the house pretty much–she got rid of her tv and many non religious books (which scares the HELL out of me, frankly), most conversations are about religion, a writing hobby has shifted to be Christian fiction, her other hobby is the chord organ–hymns naturally. I realize this sounds made up but it’s actually painful! We escaped a fundamentalist cult after my dad left us and she somehow got sucked back in. Any flirtation or interest in religion of any kind for me is now out the window, which is a shame because church is one of the few remaining “communities” for the child-free.

    22. Yes and no? My mom modeled being her own person, with her own interests. We got support and love and all the parenting that we needed, but no overbearing overprotectiveness and being a mom is only a limited part of my mom’s identity. I think if she’d grown up in my generation, she might have chosen to be childless. Especially because my dad while loving and kind, was too oblivious and disorganized to help very much with parenting.
      While my decision to not have kids is different from her life, she basically modeled the necessary mindset to make this decision.

    23. Of course. My mom was silent generation, and basically my dad‘s servant, even though she worked full-time out of financial necessity. I have never come close to even having a small grain of that type of life.

    24. Skipped a generation here. My paternal grandmother (who I was very close to) was a wonderful person but a terrible mother – she had kids because she had to in the 1940s (instead of continuing to work as a nurse) and did her best. DH had a mother who was also in a similar boat as my grandmother. We are both determined to break that cycle and at nearly 40, and we are living our best DINK lives.

    25. Reading these replies is so interesting. My mom and I differ in many ways, and there are certainly areas where I hope to be different (mostly professional). I am also parenting differently because of some things in my childhood. I felt like she made us the center of her world in a way that could feel overwhelming. She also is more emotional and sentimental than I am. On the whole though, I hope I am a mother like her in many respects. I’m in my 40s, and I’ve never known what it’s like to not have someone love you unconditionaly. She and my late father always made me feel like I was important, smart, and capable. They allowed me to spread my wings and always supported me. I never felt like I had to earn their love. She is the best grandmother in the world, and I am hope I have that opportunity.

  7. Have any of you upgraded from a small basic brand SUV (RAV4, etc) to a luxury compact SUV (X3 or Lexus, etc.)? Is the extra 15Kish getting you something much different? I do camp a fair amount and what I like about basic brands is how you can get them fixed in a lot of areas that might not handle a luxury brand with parts, etc. if it matters, I like leather seats but don’t like a cushy ride. A 5-seater is a good size for me.

    1. Can’t say I have ever seen a Lexus at the camping areas I frequent. Also unsure how the reception would be if a Lexus driver asked for a jump upon discovering they left their dome light on overnight.

      1. I’ve taken my Odyssey camping when my last mile is on gravel roads and have see all sorts of cars and trucks and SUVs. I wouldn’t take a corvette but my sense is that people don’t need a Jeep-level of performance. They just need something that isn’t too precious to use and will start reliably. AWD would be good in muck, but I’ve never gotten stuck.

    2. The Lexus RDX is built on the same platform as the RAV-4 (and Camry, frankly) and isn’t any harder to fix, though you will be charged more. Personally I’ve found that the “standard” makes have really upped their game in terms of available options so I don’t necessarily see the need to buy a luxury vehicle unless you want the look or “prestige.” you can get leather seats, heated steering wheel, etc. in a RAV4.

    3. For me, the extra up-front cost plus fancy gas and higher maintenance costs add up to a lot of money. I would not want to drive a vehicle that cost that much into an environment where it would likely get extremely dirty, scratched by tree limbs, or chipped by rocks!

    4. If you want leather seats, heated seats, and a sunroof without paying an extra $15k, look at Mazdas.

    5. You should look at Mazda. I went from a base model Acura to a fully loaded Mazda and I’m really happy with the value. The finishes are nice, handles well on dirt road/snow and I don’t feel as awful when I get it dirty. I have a 4 years-old CX-9 with 50K miles and had nothing to do on it beyond recommended maintenance. The CX-5 and CX-50 might fit your needs.

    6. I can’t compare, because I never had a basic SUV, but I love my Lexus plug in hybrid SUV. I only ever had Hondas and Toyotas and the luxury touches make driving much more pleasant for me. That said, I would never think of it as a camping car.

    7. I have an X3 and love it. For me, the big difference is the BMW user interface is much nicer for being able to navigate phone, music, etc. hands free. The car is big enough that with seats folded down it fits more than the small bed quad cab F150.

    8. I progressed from a base-model Subaru Forester to an Audi Q5 to (now) a Volvo XC60 PHEV. Cost difference was considerably more than $15k between each level, and is very obvious to me as a driver. Wind noise in the Audi and now the Volvo is far, far less than in the Subaru (so it’s a better highway driving experience), better sound system, more comfortable (i.e. firmer) seats, not to mention nice features like heated seats/steering wheel and (in the Volvo) VENTILATED seats which are amazing in the summertime!

      To me, it’s night-and-day difference between my current vehicle and the Subaru.

    9. I have a top level trim Subaru Forester (which has heated seats/steering wheel, leather seats, etc). My husband has a Lexus RX. I don’t think his car is nicer enough than mine to be worth the price difference (sorry, dear)((yes my husband reads this site)) but it’s personal preference. I also have outdoorsy hobbies and just couldn’t see myself hauling bags of dirt/mulch or getting in a Lexus with muddy barn boots.

    10. I drive a Cadillac XT5, not by my choice. (Long story). IMO, it is gaudy but comfortable and plush. The cargo area is comparable to the old Nissan Xterra, except that the rear seats are very easy to fold down and the cargo area is completely flat when they are folded down.

    11. I have an Acura which I feel is a good compromise. It’s like a pilot with all the leather options as a default. The pricing was about the same and they come off lease more often than Hondas so I got a great deal on a certified preowned one. My dad has a Lexus suv and I think it’s more wallow-y.

    12. I have a higher-trim VW Tiguan. From what I could tell the last time I shopped, the higher end SUVs had the following:

      – fancier engines that often required premium gas
      – leather seats instead of leatherette (I prefer the latter–I have a dog and want to be able to wipe muddy pawmarkss off)
      – more digital controls and electronics (do not prefer–prefer to adjust my AC by pressing a button, not navigating through a million touchscreens)
      – fancier wood trim
      – luxuries I don’t care about like air conditioned seats (my car has heated seats).

      It was not worth it to me.

      The last consideration is that I live in SF. Driving a fancy car and parking on the street is not a plus here, when you’re out shopping. You are a more likely target for break-in theft. And to be clear, everyone is a target in SF. My car was recently broke into in the Criminal Court jury duty juror parking lot…while I was on jury duty. That’s SF right now. I often take Ubers to the Mission instead of driving and parking my car where I’ll have to deal with $300+ of labor and window replacement costs. Oh, and there was nothing to take in my car. So…yeah, I’m just out that money and won’t make a claim to my insurance.

  8. Does anyone belong to the American Bar Foundation? I received an invitation to become a Fellow of the ABF, which requires a significant-to-me financial contribution. I’m wondering if it’s worthwhile. Any insights?

    1. Meh. I got a nice letter. I am committing over 10 years instead of right away. I get invited to events I don’t want to go to and don’t attend.

    2. I did it but it is a marketing expense so firm pays for it, I don’t have to go into my own pocket.

      1. For an expense of this size, I’d need to make a pretty strong case for membership. What have you gotten out of it? Thanks!

    3. I was a member during law school and coming out. The Business Law section is quite good, but what I found, coming from top biglaw firms, was that I had much of the resources and training. When I went in in-house, the New to In-House Network was very helpful in understanding how to run a good (lean) legal department. Their precedents and forms for purchase agreements/merger agreements are very good.

      They also have conferences by section, but those cost extra. I’ve never found legal conferences to be a good use of my time.

      Their CLE is wildly annoying–you have to click pop-ups and if you miss even ONE, they don’t give you credit.

      Now that I’ve been out of school longer, I find that TechGC has more on-point resources and CLEs for what i do (late-stage tech, in-house).

    1. I used to work at a video game company. Our CEO locked all managers in a room and made us give 5 star ratings to the company. Then of course, came the reviews–I was locked in a room and forced to write 5 star reviews–do not believe anything you read on here….

      This is apparently called astroturfing!

  9. Last minute trip to NYC with husband next week. 48 hours-ish. Would love recommendations for a musical/dinner! Think romantic/childless/last minute vacay vibes. And one thing to do in the AM before an afternoon flight back home. We’ve seen all the “big” shows and done all the major NYC attractions/museums, so welcome slightly off-the-beaten track recs from this group. We like to walk, see neighborhoods, quirky museums. Much appreciated!! Budget is reasonable, don’t need anything extravagant.

    1. I had a great dinner at Shukette recently by myself and am already planning a trip back just with a friend just so I an justify ordering more of the menu.

    2. I would stand in line at TKTS and see what’s available. Once you have the tickets, any number of restaurants in the area will be set up to get you out the door in time for your show. Enjoy!

    3. There is a lot of new stuff starting previews or opening night now. I have seen and recommend Kimberly Akimbo (a play) and Stereophonic is a play with music that I have not seen but have heard many raves about. I do not recommend Water for Elephants. Lempicka starts previews next week and looks interesting. If you can get tickets, Merrily We Roll Along is hugely popular, but is expensive as a result.

    4. Museum of sex and Tenement Museum were two museums of interest I enjoyed during my friends bday weekend in the city. Book the Tenement now if you want to see a specific tour, day of tickets were more sparse.

  10. The question about our mothers’ lives above sparked this question for me- how many of you would say you generall like/respect your parents? The older I get the more I realize mine are…. not great people in addition to being not great parents, and I don’t really like or respect them. I’m wondering where other people find themselves on this question.

    1. My parents, both dead now, were really good people. I don’t model that behavior as much myself as I should. I really rebelled against my Dad when I was in college, and kind of regret that now — he wasn’t as dorky or as dreary as I thought. My mom was a pioneer in many ways, and a forward thinker. I’m glad I inherited her curious mind and her research skills.

    2. Short version: same. After a lifetime of trying to like and respect unlikeable and cruel people, I’m done.

    3. I’m in my late 50s and my parents are/were Silent Generation. I recognize their human flaws, but they were good parents and stood up for good causes.

    4. I can see their foibles now in a way I didn’t as a kid, but still enjoy their company!

      1. same! I like my parents and enjoy spending time with them. My husband says he won the in-law-lottery. But they have flaws and I roll my eyes at them occasionally.

        1. +1. I love them, I admire them, and they also manage to drive me up the wall occasionally.

    5. I have always had a difficult relationship with my mother and as I get older I realize how different we are. I love her, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with her if she was a stranger I met. But I try to keep the peace with her.

    6. My parents were abusive and alcoholic, but after I left the house they both got sober and I really respect my parents now. If they hadn’t got sober I suspect I never would have spoke to them again

    7. This happened to me. As an adult I came to realize their behavior was abusive and counter productive (at best). It’s been difficult to deal with, and most of my processing and healing has come after they both died, to be honest.

    8. I respect mine a lot. They gave me a great childhood and my mom sacrificed a lot. Now they’re a huge help with their grandkids, which my husband and I deeply appreciate. We go away without our kids for a week at least once a year while my parents watch them and I know that’s pretty rare.

      I find it tiresome to spend time with my mom in large doses. She’s a good person but humorless and has trouble sustaining conversation except about a few narrow topics that don’t interest me. So although I deeply respect and love her I’m not sure I’d say I like her. At least I need to really limit how much time I spend with her. My dad and I are basically the same person and it caused a lot of conflict when I was younger but now we get along great and other than my husband he’s the person whose company I most enjoy.

      1. +1 to your last paragraph. My mom and I are the same person. We both are kind of bold, know what we want, are independent, and have strong personalities. When we get along, we get along great. When we don’t, it is bad. As an adult, we clash very rarely but when I was a teenager it was rough.

        We hangout almost weekly; I’d say 95% of the time we get along now and it’s really fun.

    9. My parents are great. One of the most admirable qualities they both have is how they are there for their loved ones. Someone needs a ride to the hospital, last minute childcare, or a meal dropped off? They’re on it. Moving? They’re there. Help with a house project? They will bring their tools and their labor.

      I was recently talking to my friend about how this is what I also want to be known for. If you call me up and need a hand, I want to be able to be there.

      When I was younger, I was a little judgmental because they weren’t doing “save the world” and they wanted me to prioritize a paycheck over passion (which was working in a “save the world” career). Now as an adult, I really appreciate their consistency and dedication to showing up for their family and friends.

      When I was younger I also was a little judgmental that they had jobs not careers, but I’ve done a bit of a 180 on that. I love my job (and I’m lucky to have a passion job that compensates me decently and has good work life balance), but even so I’ve become more and more focused on my life outside of work and care less and less about making it big and having a fancy career.

      I also used to look down on them for not volunteering and not giving much to charity. However, as an adult I now understand how little free time and money they had. As an empty nester, my dad does volunteer now. Besides, spending time helping out your inner circle may not be official volunteering, but it’s in the same spirit.

      They have a very, very tight, large, lifelong circle of friends. I have great friendships but am envious of theirs. Anyone in this group would do ANYTHING for anyone else. People talk about men not having close friendships and I truly don’t know what they’re talking about because I was raised in this tight group. The village they have is amazing.

      They’re not perfect: both have short tempers that bother me, we have opposite politics, and we prioritize things (settling down at a certain age, how to spend money, household division of labor).

      I also admire that they’re the kind of parents my brothers and I want to hang out with. While they were absolutely parents not friends when we were kids, we were always a close family. Now that we’re older, it’s much closer to friendship (though theres still plenty I won’t discuss with my parents… some things they just don’t need to know about and other things that they’ll still try to parent me about and I don’t want to hear it). I live 30 mins away and choose to see them probably 3x a month. We have fun hanging out together.

      Their politics bother me because it’s incongruent with a lot of how they live their life. Our solution is just to not discuss politics. The less I know about their specific views, the less frustrated I can get.

      My one parent is this way because of their parents (literally the kindest, most family oriented people I know) and the other is this way in spite of their father (and their mother died when they were young but by all accounts was salt of the earth).

    10. I posted above but I don’t like or respect my parents. My father walked out when I was 5, apparently never wanted kids (he had 3). My mother has wasted her life. She fears the world and lacks any semblance of resilience. She has a victim mentality. When I was a teen she offered me up to the altar of therapy and then therapist shopped until she finally found someone who took her at her word and didn’t try to force her into silly family therapy – because obviously she’s not the problem. When she suspected I was sleeping with my bf – because she found protection in my purse that had been handed out at some teen event or other – she took me out of school with no warning or explanation, brought me to an OBGYN, and threatened me with repercussions if I didn’t consent to a pap. I cried the whole time. She was furious that the doctor wouldn’t tell her whether my hym*n was in tact and then hit me when we got home and refused to feed me or let me go to school for a few days. She told all my friends’ parents outlandish lies, like I was organizing org*es and recruiting their daughters, so I became a pariah at my religious school.

      It all seems so unhinged when you write it out like that, but she comes off as a very nice quiet little older lady so everyone believed her. Even now that I’m older, and some of my family members are somewhat tuned into the fact that she can be crazy, they still don’t 100% believe that she was lying about what a terrible teenager I was. It’s wild honestly. It’s pretty infuriating when people say, ohhh you’ll understand her better when you have kids. I sure hope it never occurs to me to treat my kids like that.

      1. “It’s pretty infuriating when people say, ohhh you’ll understand her better when you have kids. I sure hope it never occurs to me to treat my kids like that.”

        Having a kid if what torpedoed any remaining respect I had for my father. I spent my life hearing about how I would like/admire him more when I had my own kids. Nope.

    11. I do, very much. They’re truly kind, caring people with a sense of fun. They definitely push my buttons sometimes (ahem, because they installed them), but the great parts of our relationships make it worth it to just roll my eyes and let go of their foibles.

    12. My parents are LOVELY, but I gave them a decent amount of grief as a teenager for perceived failings. And as I get older/am now a parent, I realise how amazing they were considering their circumstances. They had deeply troubling upbringings and in forming a family as 2 silly 19 year olds, worked so hard to break cycles of abuse, alcoholism, etc and be really kind, thoughtful parents. There’s no manual and no one got everything right (and I wish my mum would be less judgy about my weight) but they get an A+ for effort.

      1. This where I land too. I love my parents, they are good people. They made some mistakes, but I was also an annoyingly stubborn teenager and now that I’m a parent, I realize it’s hard to be perfect all the time. My parents have some annoying views in old age (like to rant about certain societal topics) but at the end of the day they always vote on the right side (IMO) so while we have some spirited debates about certain things, I still love and respect them. They are also very obsessed about my weight (just people’s weight in general) and it’s given me a few issues so I’m trying hard to shield my daughter from that.

    13. I like and respect my mother. My father, on the other hand was…not a very good person, so I have nothing for him.

    14. My dad was a Trump level narcissist. My mom was fine until I was a teenager and then she dumped a lot of really bad programming on me from her toxic religious background. I left and after a lot of anger and grieving left them both in the rear-view mirror.

    15. I generally like my parents and have a good but not super close relationship with either. They have the worst marriage and my dad is controlling and verbally abusive to my mom. And bizarrely, he is very supportive of me (his only daughter) and never verbally abusive towards me or my brothers.

      My mom is incredibly hard working and impressive. We’re first generation immigrants and my mom, who didn’t have a degree, went back to school part time for fifteen continuous years (!!) to eventually become a nurse practitioner. The whole time she worked full time, was very involved in our local community, and in the lives of her four children. It helped that my dad did a lot of domestic duties but he was a jerk to her and she martyred herself for him in ways she never should’ve but continues to do. I’ve accepted she’ll never leave him even though he’s still a jerk to her, but his health is terrible and she cares for him now.

    16. I have the upmost respect for my mom – she was an upstanding person who made people feel loved, who tried her hardest to do the right things and always treated people with respect. When I became a mother, I realized that I wanted to emulate the type of mother she was (and I hope I’m living up to that). She passed away last year and I miss her so very much.
      My father is not a good person and it’s a big reason why we are no contact. I don’t respect him at all and it’s all because of his behavior/life choices and how it impacted not only me, but also my siblings. In short, he’s selfish and a bully.

    17. Mine are dead. I respected them a great deal while fully recognizing the choices they made would not be choices I would make.

    18. My parents are awesome people who have their flaws. I don’t agree with some of the aspects of how they raised me and my siblings, but I understand why they made the decisions they did. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve better understood that parents are just two people who decided to have a kid and they were doing the best they could with what they knew at the time. I’ve made my peace with the mistakes they made and I’m lucky that they are both funny, kind, interesting people in their own right, so I enjoy hanging with them as an adult.

    19. In law school in property law we covered the hypothetical problem of people who try to get a dying person to change their will and leave their estate to an acquaintance and I thought “Who could be that evil?” My mother, that’s who. She tried to guilt our neighbor into leaving me their house as she lay dying of cancer because “Daughter always loved your house and cherished your role in her life!” Literally, the night the neighbor died, my mother was bothering her with this nonsense. I was too ashamed to show up to the funeral but privately passed my condolences to the neighbor’s sister later.

      There has been a lifetime of other things, but that was the moment I realized that I wasn’t imagining it and my mother was one of the worst people I have ever known.

    20. I respect my parents quite a bit, and generally like them. I did a lot of my life very different from them and have made much different choices, but we have a shared level of respect for each other.

    21. Respect and love my mother, but sometimes find her frustrating. Do not like, love, or respect my father; we haven’t spoken in six years and the last time I saw him was from across the room when he gate-crashed my wedding. (My parents aren’t together.)

    22. The older I get, the more complicated my feelings become about my parents. Intellectually, I can recognize that they had us really young, moved to a place they did not speak the language and did their best. Emotionally, there is still a lot of stuff that I need to process, and moving towards the adult friendship stage with my parents has been a challenge. So, I guess, they are good people operating within their own limitations which can be infuriating.

    23. I feel like my parents did the best they could, but they both came from fairly difficult circumstances (my grandparents were VERY tough cases) . Frankly, they just aren’t good at anything involving emotions and they are really, really rigid.

      1. This is me, 100%. I respect many, many things about them. I love them. I like many, many things about them. But it’s very hard for me to forgive/reconcile their emotional distance and sometimes outright coldness. I can intellectually understand why they’re like that, but I can’t quite get to an emotionally understanding place.

  11. Has anyone come across a travel-friendly shirtdress recently? I’m thinking something in a heavier twill or blend that I won’t have to iron for an hour. TIA!

    1. Zuri dresses and leggings are my favorite shirt dresses for traveling. The big pockets are great, they’re easy to wear with layers, and I dont have any problems with wrinkles (maybe because of the volume of fabric?)

  12. Low stakes search help needed: I’m the mother of the groom and need a outfit to wear at the shower, which is being held at a country club on a Sunday in April. Also need a dress to wear to the rehersal dinner in mid-May, mid-Atlantic region at an all in one hotel/wedding venue. Shoes for both events as well. I’m 5’5″, wear a 6/8, mid-60s, have greying hair, pale skin. Rufflepuff is neither my style nor the style of the bride and her friends. I like jewel tones and think they look good on me. I’m looking at maybe $100 for the shower and maybe topping out at $200 for the rehersal dress. I rarely have the occaision to dress up anymore. My suburban mall is dying a slow dress, so my local shopping options are pretty limited, but I don’t mind ordering and returning.

    1. Are you or your family hosting the rehearsal dinner? If so, use that time to shine!

      You might want to check with bride or the shower planner on if there are colors you should or shouldn’t wear for that event – like do you want to look like part of the “bridal party” or not? I have no idea

    2. Lady jackets are back in style and there are a million of them in stores. For the shower, you could wear nice slacks or a dress you already own, and top with a lady jacket? Then you don’t have to shop for two dresses, and you’ll get a nice versatile addition to your closet.

      1. Not OP but I think the lady jackets are SO FRUMPY! They are the last thing I would wear to a celebration.

    3. Tuckernuck. So many of their dresses are cut for petite, not-super-young women. They are flattering, perfectly appropriate for brunchy-things. Look there.

  13. Can anyone recommend a good ‘comparative religions’ type of book? DH and I are ex-Catholics and raising our kids atheist but realized they have zero context for a lot of the religious motivations of wars/laws/art/books/etc and want to try to address this in a historical way. The older one missed the spate of confirmation/bar mitzvahs but the younger is about to attend some. Their schools don’t teach this until 11th/12th grades and they’re 6th/9th now.

    1. It’s wild to me that schools try to teach history, current events, literature, art, and music without teaching religion. Obviously religion needs to be taught in a secular way (unless in a religious school), but to not teach it at all / not provide the context until high school feels like educational malpractice.

      1. My daughter took Bible as Literature in public high school. It was taught in a non religious way, though obviously she had fellow students who related to it in that way.

      2. I am Gen X and the Bible as literature segment is the one we did not get to in my AP English class senior year. Nevertheless, I was regularly asked to comment on religious imagery, particularly Christ imagery, found in literature beginning in middle school. Having been raised without religion, it was very frustrating and felt quite unfair. (I did fine in school, but I relied a lot on Cliff’s notes to help me through most of that, which was widely considered cheating at the time.)

        1. It is unfair!

          I had professors in college who missed Biblical references in art and literature just from not having enough familiarity.

          Meanwhile the (secular) religious studies professors I know have found that their evangelical students really don’t know the Bible anyway. I think schools shy away from teaching it because of the religious fanatics, but it would actually help if they taught it more! (Along with other important religious texts and traditions.)

          1. I don’t think having your standard church-going religious background is really going to prepare you for biblical symbolism in literature the way a course aimed at that will do.

          2. Yeah I fed very strongly that it’s impossible to be a well rounded member of society and well educated without having an understanding of cultures, religions, and histories other than our own.

          3. Agree, but everyone should have access to courses that teach them that!

            I’m agnostic but was raised going to church. I learned good lessons from church but it’s not like sermons are about history and art terribly often. But a good history class focused on world religions gave me a good basis to both major in international politics and minor in art history!

          4. You would be surprised at how many churchgoing religious Sunday school people haven’t actually read the Bible. I studied the Bible as literature in college and teach a moms’ class at my church and find the whole thing appalling, both from a religious standpoint and from a general cultural literacy standpoint. The older ladies in the women’s class got all tetchy when I made comments about the historical and cultural context, the author’s aim, etc. so I started my own class for younger, more educated women. They aren’t any more familiar with the Bible than the old ladies, but at least they are excited to actually read and analyze and have a genuine intellectual discussion. The old ladies can quote some verses out of context but they have no idea what any of it might mean in context. Bless their hearts.

        2. I wanted to take the Bible as Literature class in high school until I found out they were using a generic “New Standard” translation and not the King James. I mean, wtf?! The King James is one of the most influential oeuvres in English literature!

      1. +1 My great-aunt (b. 1906) told me that when she was 15 she read the bible cover to cover and nothing had shocked her since.

    2. For kids: What Do You Believe?: Big Questions About Religion

      For adults: Stephen Prothero, Religious Literacy

    3. Not joking, a book that made a huge impact on me as a kid in terms of religion was Are You There God? It’s Me Margaret.

    4. Caveat that I haven’t read it in 20 years and teen boys will snicker at the title, but in my comparative religions class in high school, we used The Joy of Sects.

    5. Good on you for doing this! I went to an Episcopalian school but everyone took a year of World Religions as a religion class and our history, art, and English classes refreshed us on religion as needed to understand the topics. I think it’s a disservice that schools don’t do this.

      Being at an Episcopal school, I obviously had a good foundation on Christianity (and really, all 3 Abrahamic religions; we had an entire semester on the origins on all 3) but I find that I’m more knowledgeable about religions other than my own than pretty much anyone I know. My Jewish friends are surprised how much I know about Judaism, for example. Our class focused on the 5 main world religions, but also taught about smaller ones (15 year later and I can still speak intelligently about Jainism, Sikhism and Zoroastrianism, for example).

      I find my friends who went to public schools just never learned about religion outside of what they picked up from family or a very little bit in school (like the Protestant Reformation was covered as a political event but not a cultural or religious one). Friends who went to Catholic schools know way more about Catholicism than I know about Episcopalianism, but know virtually nothing about Protestant churches and nothing about other religions either. Friends from Quaker schools seem to have a foundation similar to mine.

      I was a history major and I really, really don’t get how you teach history without a good understanding of religion.

    6. Are you sure they didn’t have a basic overview of religions covered in World History? That was 6th grade for me. For some reason, I remember the chapter on the 5 pillars of Islam very well.

        1. Honestly, whenever there’s a public vs private debate here and people say they got the same education at a public school than others did at private schools, I roll my eyes and this is one of the reasons why.

          Sure, maybe you’re in a small class (12-16 students) having focused(distraction-free from misbehaving students) and discussion-based learning around Harkness tables with cross cutting or interdisciplinary themes, but that’s pretty rare even in great public schools.

          1. you’re making a lot of assumptions about public schools here. I had 20 kids in my public high school AP classes and no instruction time was lost to people goofing off. We did get some aspects of religious history as part of history classes.

          2. I mean with 20 kids in a class how much time is spent in lecture vs discussion that’s building critical thinking skills?

            And what’s the experience in non-AP classes?

          3. Deerfield Academy, a college prep parochial school, and Jim Bob’s School of Bible Learnin’ are all private options. Both public and private run the gamut, so there’s really no meaningful comparison to be made. American schools vary quite a bit, even on a local level.

          4. That is true and thank you for the reminder. I went to a school akin to Deerfield.

            I learned through this board that a lot of Southern private schools were founded to continue segregation and are culturally and academically different from the prep schools I know in the Northeast.

          5. Yeah, Deerfield and other exclusive prep schools are a very small fraction of private schools in the US.

          6. I’m the 2:02 poster. I definitely don’t think my education was as good as you get at the elite private schools, but as others have noted most private schools aren’t fancy. I currently live in a city with no non-religious private school options and the religious options range from unacceptable (the Christian school that doesn’t teach evolution) to satisfactory but no better than the best public schools (the Catholic school).

      1. Nope. It’s a private non religious school and a LOT of families chose it to avoid any religious education. They give the broad strokes of various holidays but that’s it.

        1. There’s avoiding instruction in one particular religion (as it should be, unless at a religious school) and there’s just not discussing or educating on religion at all (bad, not a well rounded education).

          You can teach religion without being religious.

    7. My parents avoided all religion with me, and I think it was the right choice. By the time I took philosophy of religion in university I had a good grasp on logic, critical thinking etc and was able to appreciate the stories for what they were.

    8. I was woefully ignorant as to Bible references and ended up going to small Catholic University for undergrad. I tried to do better by my child but not sure it helped.

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