ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 457 Comments

Thursday’s Workwear Report: The Carys Mock-Neck Sweater

A woman wearing a pink-and-white floral sweater, black shorts, and a belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I am absolutely smitten with this sweet mock-neck sweater from Anthropologie. (The brand calls this colorway “rose,” but it looks more like a poppy to me?)

My office leans on the more casual end of the business casual spectrum, so I would wear this to work with some slimmer-cut pants and a pair of loafers. If you’re on the more formal end of the spectrum, I would zhuzh it up by tucking it into a high-waisted skirt and adding some great shoes. 

The sweater is $98 at Anthropologie and comes in plus sizes 1X-3X, petite sizes XS-XL, and standard sizes XXS-XL. It also comes in seven other colorways, but sadly, not all colors are available in the non-standard sizes.

Sales of note for 12.5

457 Comments

  1. Reminder to the white ladies, if you’re looking for a way to be supportive of Kamala tonight’s zoom call is a good starting point, Answerthecall2024.org. (Everyone welcome, but black ladies are already light years ahead on doing this work!)

    1. Yes! Thank you for posting this. I signed up last night after thinking about how my current mix of excitement and fear isn’t good for me and I need to stop ruminating and get more involved. My life is busy, but I believe that this campaign is too important to sit back and watch, and that donating probably isn’t enough. Organize, fight, win!

      1. Same here.

        A comment the other day about how college campuses are positive and the comments here are negative made me think about why. Probably because we were so hopeful in November 2015 and it’s so hard to be emotionally invested like that again.

        College students who are 18-22 now were 10- 14 in November 2015 and like much less affected by that loss. Going to make a conscious effort to be more positive and hopefully about the election and risk the heartbreak.

        1. I just hope lessons will be learned from what went wrong then. It’s been so cringe to see “I’m with her” and other relics of a failed campaign.

          This is my reason for saying Harris and not Kamala (let’s not evoke first name only candidates like Hillary and Bernie!).

          1. Let us know if Kamala listens to you when you explain to her why she needs to change her branding.

          3. Good luck with that, it’s such a ridiculous thing to get hung up on. Especially when all her campaign branding is going younger, cooler and Yes We Kam.

          4. I’ve worked with politicians for a long time. They like their constituents to think of them on a first name basis, from what I’ve noticed.

          5. As to “I’m with her” I have mixed feelings as well. I think I’d like to see something new and fresh and solely for Harris’s campaign not a throwback to HRC’s.

          6. Her campaign is running Kamala HQ. Not Harris HQ. So I’m going to be guided by them not whiny annoying drama queens on the internet.

          8. but she has branded herself as Kamala – there’s a clip going around of (that girl from the Office I’m blanking on) asking her what to call herself and she is very clear, Kamala

    2. Welcome for what? I don’t understand what this is and the website seems to be missing text explaining itself.

    3. FYI the website is answerthecall2024.com – not .org. Thank you for sharing!

      1. +1 and make sure it goes to that – there is a weird spammy looking site at the .org.

        I signed up! Thanks for posting OP.

      1. +1. I don’t think this kind of messaging was ever effective – not in any election year I’ve seen. Women need to come together, especially in an era of unprecedented attacks on our rights to bodily autonomy. You can and should thank black women for their contributions without inserting needless divisions where they don’t belong.

        1. It’s not divisive, it’s reality. Black women are engaged. Encouraging white women to catch up is reality. Saying “women” ignores the work Black women are doing.

          3. Sorry but call me a “white lady” and you’ll do nothing more than piss me off.

          4. Ah – so women get to be called “women” when it’s a criticism, but when we want to advocate for our rights, it’s “no no, you have to say people/birthing people/people who can get pregnant.”

          5. I agree. On top of that, women needed to come together in 2016 as well but never forget the 42%.

            As to Latina and Asian women, there are calls for them, too.

          6. Haha, yup. When women’s rights are under attack the left doesn’t know what a woman is because they aren’t biologists. But when someone needs to be blamed, the left suddenly remembers how to define a woman… and slaps “white” in front so they can’t be accused of misogyny when they’re just being anti-racist. Eyeroll.

          9. Well explain then how 18% of likely Black women voters were planning to vote for Trump when Biden was the candidate.

          11. +1 — the call came about (“for white women”) because black women started mobilizing Sunday night — a Zoom call that had an upper limit of 1000 maxed out and then turned into a call with something like 40,000. Black men have done the same.

            https://19thnews.org/2024/07/win-with-black-women-zoom-call-harris-organizers/

            The fear is that white women are going to screw everyone over again like they did in 2016. White women in particular need to be called out and made to mobilize. (I say this as Whitey McWhiterson.)

            https://www.vogue.com/article/white-women-voters-conservative-trump-gop-problem
            https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/how-white-women-helped-propel-republicans-victory-virginia-n1283153
            https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/57/white-women-our-most-divided-voting-bloc/

        2. Women need to come together indeed – that’s exactly how I read the OP’s post. If the truth is a little uncomfortable to hear, it’s still true.

      2. Yea as a white woman who donated, made phone calls and posted on social media for the 2020 election, I’m done. I’m voting and that’s really all I’m doing this time around.

        2. I mean yes that’s exactly the problem tbh. If you’re too lazy to fight you are part of the issue.

          1. +1

            It never ends folks.
            Its part of being a good citizen.
            How much time does it really take? Not much to make a difference.

      3. Fellow white women, stop making issues where there are none! As a moderate-to-conservative WW myself, there is nothing so unappealing as people playing the snowflake “you hurt my feelings with your true statements” card.

        1. Look, it is worth getting people to realize that pursing divisive politics and limping people into stereotypes is never a winning strategy at best and causes a lot of the issues we’re seeing today. You want to win? Keep Trump out of office? Knock it off.

        2. Women are telling you that this messaging is not helping motivate them. If you want to win, you should be interested in improving your messaging and not needlessly and pointlessly turning people off. What’s the benefit to you of doing that? What’s it helping? We are telling you that you need to change strategies to be effective, and that is a valid political opinion.

          1. Yeah like 4 anonymous internet ladies are. But tens of thousands of women have signed up for this and it will likely raise over a million dollars.

        3. Agree! The upset-ness at “white women” being called to action is reading very white fragility. It’s just outreach to a target demographic that would be great to mobilize, it’s not some big diss.

          2. It’s not white fragility. It’s genuine surprise that anyone on the left would directly address this demographic with an invitation as opposed to an attack.

      4. Why would I have? It’s literally part of the point. Black women showed up for a similar call in droves with the checkbooks open. I personally don’t think we should just let them do all the work here. If you’re offended by white women trying to be supportive and maybe not have the majority of us vote for Trump, you’re welcome to not come.

    5. in response to the concerns about this being directed to white women:
      there were several calls this week: a black women call that raised $1M+ on Sunday, a black men call ($1.3M) a few days ago, OUT for Kamala (LGBTQ+) and also an AAPI call this week. if you don’t like being called a white woman, find another way to get involved but it’s happening and criticizing the messaging is unlikely to be helpful.

        2. +1. If an invitation is cloaked in criticizing me for what someone else who happens to share my skin color and gender did four/eight years ago… I’ll just not attend. Because I did nothing to earn that attack.

          (This is different from acknowledging that I benefit from institutional racism and that intersectionality is a thing. I do acknowledge that.)

          1. I just really hope that everyone here getting worked up about this has never asked a Black Woman, or Jewish person or White Man to be accountable for something their group is supposedly doing.

          2. Literally none of this is blaming or shaming white women? It’s an opportunity to help not a scolding.

        3. Sounds like you just don’t want be involved anyway if a non-offensive message on an anonymous blog post is the litmus test for you. Ridiculous.

        4. lol. I am a white woman, anon at 10:46 wondering what your fragile tears are about. There isn’t time to pander to our fee fees right now.

          1. Love to see women adopting the male voice and reducing other women’s thoughts to “lol you’re so emotional”. Real progress being made here.

          7. Nah, sounds like you’ve done all the reading for both of us :). May I recommend reading, like, any books on political campaigning (or even general persuasion)? Because there is not a single political strategist who would recommend your current tactic as a way to get people on your side. But I can tell that this posturing feels really, really, really good to you, so I think you’re getting all you want out of it.

        5. Exactly. Harris said she was going to work hard and earn the nomination and our votes. So, although I loathe her, I am deliberately opening my mind and heart to give her the opportunity. Negative calling out is not an incentive, it turns me off. Do you want to win or do you want to virtue signal?

      2. Let me ask you this – what is MORE helpful about putting down white women compared to not? What’s the benefit in your eyes? Have you seen it to be helpful for driving turnout? Do people respond positively to it?

      3. And if there had been a “white women call” then that would have set off MAJOR racist vibes. You can’t have it both ways.

          1. That is so insane that I thought the OP was just insulting white women for the fun of it. I cannot believe that a “white people” affinity group is actually permitted to exist.

      4. The difference is that those were affinity groups getting together to support a candidate. This posting, on the other hand, is a putdown of a particular racial and gender group.

        In my field there are a lot of calls that go “Black colleagues, come support one of our own” and a lot of others that go “all colleagues, come support our amazing Black colleague!” Never do you see “white losers, come support our Black colleague!”

          2. As I read it, the “criticism” isn’t related to something that happened four or eight years ago. It’s related to a call full of Black Women who support Harris that took place last week and the invitation for an upcoming comparable call for WW. Basically OP said in a glib way, WW, let’s catch up and also start organizing and fundraising for Harris.

            Does that change your perspective on whether this was actually a critique?

          4. This is a literal thing that is happening! I’m not organizing it just sharing it.

          5. PLB, how on earth would anyone be expected to infer that this is a call specifically for white women? An explictly white-focused gathering is not something that a legitimate organization ever holds in this day and age, so it wouldn’t even cross people’s mind that this is what’s happening. It looked to me like a general campaign for donations with a gratuitous dig at white women.

        2. Yes, this. One of these approaches is effective at bringing people to your side, one is not. It’s all well and good to be right, but I’d rather actually get my candidate elected and make life better for everyone.

          2. To be fair the actual campaign isn’t using the smug divisive rhetoric that’s being used here. I doubt that anyone who was bothered by OP’s phrasing would be bothered by the campaign’s phrasing… because the actual call is an invitation rather than a shot across the bow.

        3. It isn’t at all. It’s an affinity group of white women who want to be supportive. If that’s not you don’t go.

        4. Wait, what? This is a fundraising drive for white women only? That’s so un-PC that I didn’t even realize the OP was talking about a literal call for white women. I thought she was just saying “white women, you s*ck and need to join this general movement and get on board with the Black women who are already fund-raising through affinity groups.”

          1. That’s literally what I thought too. Considering how this original post was phrased and the spamming link, I’m inclined to think this whole thing was a bot.

          2. Seriously this whole thread is out of control.

            Thanks OP. we get the spirit.

            No wonder the Dem party has the reputation of never getting things done.
            Assume good intention folks. And haven’t you learned no candidate is perfect, and don’t let perfection be the enemy of good.

    7. Is this a zoom call of people donating money? I honestly don’t understand what it is. I say this as someone who is voting for her.

      1. Precisely–none of this makes any sense. Don’t you just donate at her website?

    8. Wait is this call tonight really just for white ladies? I’m on the website and that’s kind of weird…. I am super keen to get invovled but as a very not-white passing WOC I guess this isn’t the outlet for me.

  2. What do you say to those folks who are like, “If she picks X for her VP, I’m totally out”? Like, really? In this case, it’s about Shapiro because he supposedly compared pro-Palestinian protestors to the KKK (not sure if that’s actually true, but that’s what she believes)… She’s in a swing state, went to an Ivy, and is super liberal. I tried to push back a bit, but I think she’s just gonna double down. Are these people just hopeless? Is closer to the election the time to make pleas?

    1. I’m so sick of the young people who are prepared to throw the entire country away to make a statement about Palestine. Not a single one of them has answered for me how Trump is going to be better for Palestinians. Not a single one has identified some other mythical candidate who is going to be perfect for Palestinians or anyone else. Just ignore them – gray rocking takes the wind out of their self-important sails.

      And for the record, not a single one has spoken up about family and genocide in Sudan either.

      2. Oh gosh, is the U.S. supporting the genocide in Sudan now? In policy, arms, or tax dollars? That would be alarming news.

      2. I’ve never forgiven my liberal cousin for voting for Jill stein in 2016. He cares more about being a contrarian than his actual values. I suspect your friend is the same.

        1. There were plenty of men (lots of them Bernie Bros) who voted for Jill Stein to brag that they weren’t misogynists, when that’s actually why they didn’t vote for Hillary.

        2. My super liberal BiL didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016 in Wisconsin. He said he just hated Hillary, it wasn’t about her gender. He voted for Biden in 2020. Guess who now has issues with Kamala? Again he claims it’s “not about her gender” he just happens to have issues with all female presidential candidates. So gross.

          2. reminds me of that Alexandra Petri piece, “I’m fine with women in power, just not this one specific woman currently in power” (about Pelosi)
            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/11/16/im-fine-with-women-in-power-just-not-this-one-specific-woman-currently-in-power/

            “The first thing I need to make clear is that I love and support women. I am eager to see more women rise to positions of power. Hashtag pink wave! Hashtag pink hat!

            But I have to say, I’m a little frustrated that we keep putting forward this specific woman who really grinds my gears. Not because she’s a woman. I would know if that were why. It is not that. It’s just — ugh, her, you know? She just doesn’t excite me, and I feel that she is too compromised. That’s not a woman thing, though. It’s just a her thing. I would have that issue with anyone who had her baggage, that same difficult-to-pin-down sense that something about her was fundamentally tainted.”

          3. This is my least favorite type of guy because they are so sneaky and usually masters at gaslighting so they can sit around pontificating while the women around them do the work. Give me the conservative g*n nut types I grew up with any day, at least you can see them coming.

      3. They shouldn’t ever change — DJT is counting on them. And RFK also. Better than donating is not showing up at all. The down ticket appreciates it no doubt.

    3. I’ve cut antisemitic people like this out of my life so wouldn’t say anything.

    4. People like that aren’t in anyway… they are so frustrated with the last 3.5 years that they just DGAF.

      Your best bet is to encourage them to go to the polls anyway to vote for down ballot candidates.

    6. So, so, so many people don’t vote at all. I try to think of it as “well at least they care and recognize that there’s no education level that has ever made individuals immune to propaganda, conspiracy theories, or even cults. And I have seen a ton of propaganda along these lines lately.

      1. Missing a ” after “care.” I hope they’ll still vote for local candidates. I also try to talk about voting as harm reduction, since sometimes that is a concept very liberal people already understand. In any context it’s hard to convey that crimes of omission matter and that there’s no way to keep our hands clean no matter what we choose.

    7. Coming at this from a different angle. I am Jewish. I don’t want Shapiro to be the VP candidate because Jews in this country already have a target on their back. I am pro Israel in the sense I think that it has the right to exist and defend itself. I despise Netanyahu and think a lot of his actions have made this situation worse. I am upset by the situation in Gaza and believe in a two state solution. In that sense, I am pro-Palestinian, though I do not believe in or stand with many of the actions of the current movement. I have always voted Democrat and will in this election as well. That being said, while I think Trump is racist and is probably deep down antisemitic, I do not need him and Netanyahu working together, but I do think his administration might come out stronger against the antisemitism happening in this country, which is an issue of great importance to me. Yesterday the words ‘Hamas is coming’ were spray painted in DC. The pro-Palestinian protesters are flying Hamas flags. I think those involved in the pro-Palestinian movement need to think long and hard if they want to associate themselves with a pro-Hamas movement because right now there is no difference between that two and that scares me. I do not want groups like Hamas anywhere near me or my loved ones. I care deeply about our democracy and other issues like abortion, but if I have to think twice about my kids’ teachers knowing they are Jewish or whether I should hang a mezuzah on my door or feel angst about attending services, and if things like encampments on college campuses with no consequences for the perpetrators are normalized…

      1. “I refuse to distinguish between the two because it serves my narrative better not to” and “there is no difference between the two” are not the same thing.

        1. if you protest alongside people supporting Hamas, you are as bad as they are in my eyes. you are the company you keep

          2. I don’t think that’s an apt analogy. There can be bad actors in any protest but the pro-Palestinian processes have been much more explicitly geared toward support of Hamas than BLM was toward violence or destruction of property.

          3. While I supported the BLM movement, I would not participate in any kind of demonstration I thought might evolve into looting. I’d find another way to show support.

            I also think that this is different because these protestors are standing next to people waving Hamas flags. It is part of the ideology. I again would find another way to show support that doesn’t encourage terrorist organizations or cause damage to businesses or statues. you are just creating work for other people who have to clean it up.

          4. I totally get that you would prefer that people supporting an end to the brutal torture, slaughter, and starvation of Palestinian civilians but who don’t support Hamas would do something quieter, less visible, and less effective. I get it.

          5. i would be happy for them to do something loud and visible if it wasn’t destructive or involved colluding with terrorists. i actually support their issue, but i don’t support vandalism or actions promoting hatred

      2. I am in your same position and agreed almost entirely until you got to the part where Trump would be better on antisemitism – what?? We had Charlottesville under his last administration and those people marching were inspired by Trump’s election, not deterred by it. White supremacists are his base. A Trump administration might indiscriminately use force in a way that a Democratic admin wouldn’t, but that isn’t a good thing. And I live in DC and am horrified by what happened at Union Station yesterday.

        1. It pains me to say it, but there are people out there who are totally okay with antisemitism when it comes from certain groups — ie conservative white people — but willing to stand up to antisemitism that comes from other groups — i.e., liberals and Arabs/Muslims.

        2. you are right. I am the anon at 10:22. I do not actually mean better because I don’t think it will be better. I despise Trump. I am just frustrated and upset that others are not more upset by people spray painting things like ‘Hamas is coming.’ Why do people want to associate themselves with a movement that supports terrorists?

      3. I agreed until “that being said.” It sounds like you don’t know a lot of white MAGA people because the antisemitism in that movement is overwhelming.

        2. I am the Anon at 10:22. you’re right. I don’t know a lot of MAGA white people. I realize white supremacists despise me as well. And I realize bad things happened to the Jewish community under the Trump administration. Better was the wrong word choice. I don’t think it will be better. It just often feels like the issue isn’t being taken seriously and that no one cares. How did people manage to get into the Watergate to release maggots and worms? Kamala spent yesterday speaking to a sorority rather than in DC.

      4. Ask most of the Republicans in Congress who gave Netanyahu a standing ovation yesterday if they know what religious and ethnic groups he belongs to. Most of them don’t seem to realize that he is Jewish. They just think of Israel as “The Holy Land” and don’t connect that with their own antisemitism

        Trump has repeatedly fanned the flames of hate against anyone who isn’t part of his own group. He wouldn’t do anything to combat the antisemitism you’re describing. He would revel in it.

        1. Many Republicans are dumb but I think they realize Netanyahu is Jewish. Agree Trump would not be any better in antisemitism though.

          1. I remember in 2016 that there was a lot of support for Trump among the most conservative jews — but i don’t remember why. was it money? hasn’t kushner been accused of being a west bank settler?

            the idea of someone who cares about Palestine voting for Trump (or not voting, in a swing state) is so dumb

        2. Many Republicans are dumb but I think they realize Netanyahu is Jewish. Agree Trump would not be any better on antisemitism though.

        3. Enough. “Republicans bad, antisemistism bad, therefore, Republicans are antisemitic and too stoopid to know that Israel is Jewish” reflects so poorly on you.

          1. No, I think most of the Republicans in Congress can’t be arsed to recognize that the same religion that they are applauding on the one hand is being actively targeted by their own supporters. I’m certain that is the case for the congressman from my district. A few may understand but they don’t seem to recognize nuance in large part.

    8. I ask them if civilians in the Ukraine should live. The reality is that Trump’s stance on Gaza isn’t any better, but you’ll throw in the lives of Ukrainian civilians as well if he’s reelected. So while it might feel good in the moment to be protesting when you see folks suffering, just know that not voting for Harris will be adding a whole other group of people somewhere else to that suffering as well. If it’s really about trying to save lives, being “totally out” makes you an active contributor to the horrors happening there.

      When you look at that bigger. picture, being totally out isn’t the noble thing you think it is.

      1. So far the people I know who are taking this stance accept Russian propaganda about “the Ukraine” whole cloth (they think the only reason Ukrainians are not already Russian is that they’re actual N*zis and the Soviets didn’t genocide them enough).

    9. Mentally flag them as people I don’t talk about politics with and change the subject.

    10. There will always be single issue voters (and non-voters), but I think the approach is to talk about incremental gains and big picture. VP Harris has said more about Gaza than Biden, which is admittedly a low bar. But Trump would be worse – he pushed the US to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in 2020 – and not voting for Harris gives Trump an advantage.

      When Obama was running, he was against marriage equality, but he evolved on the issue over time. I think Harris is persuadable, but I know Trump is not.

    11. I say “I think that’s anti semitic and it makes me sad to hear that from you.” Same as I have been saying and saying and saying all year.

    12. Honestly, I just say something like, “that’s really interesting.” I think it’s a position that really exaggerates how much power a VP has 99.999% of the time, but I don’t think you can persuade people out of that position in a single conversation. To me, it’s a bit like a preschooler holding his breath until he turns blue, which is scary to watch but not actually harmful. I just hope they change their minds by November.

    13. I would invite her to read up on Linda Sarsour’s take. Basically – a vote is not an endorsement so much as deciding who you would rather bargain with as an activist. Who do you think will give the pro Palestinian movement more attention and consideration – Trump or Harris?

      Too many people think of votes as endorsements. Instead, as an activist (presumably) she should take as a given that all politicians will disappoint.

  3. Is there a race like the Warrior Dash used to be – an obstacle/trail run but lower key than the Spartan/Mudder ones? Locally we have Tough Mudders, but the way the obstacles are described, you need to cooperate with other people on some of them, and I prefer handling obstacles solo. Or, for anyone who’s done it before, can you chime in on whether cooperation with random strangers is necessary?

    1. I’ve done Tough Mudders before – the cooperation is pretty minimal, probably like a minute worth of cooperation total. There are maybe one or two obstacles where you’d need someone to boost you or give you a hand (and vice versa) but they are not difficult and people will help without any asking.

  4. I’m middle-aged and came of age when we wore suits to work. I had a bipolar closet: free tees with words or wool suits and serious shoes. Life got busy and I was in DC, which IMO didn’t help. I was still in suits, just going from Potomac Mills to Nordstrom as my budget grew. I’m a pear and shorter, so fashion was just hard. It was a struggle to get workwear right. Then COVID hit and I left DC and workplace is now casual and I am so far behind the learning curve. I saw Gina Raymundo on TV and she did a great job of looking so put-together in an interesting jacket sort of outfit. I’m due back to DC soon and am wondering: if I want to dress like her, which stores should I pop into when I’m there? My current city is great for rufflepuff but not for what I need for work.

    1. can you give us a link to her outfit? without knowing i’d maybe say stores like hobbs, sezane… curious to see what others say.

      1. OP here no don’t have it but it was in a paper copy of the WSJ earlier this week. Looked like a black / white tweed moto jacket.

        1. that looks like it’s custom or so high end i don’t recognize it.
          nic & zoe has stuff like that at a lower price; i like the way that brand fits my short waist. you can definitely find them at nordstrom, not sure where else.

    2. IDK stores there, but I would take the books by Brenda Kinsel (in the dressing room with brenda) + (40 over 40)
      out of the library to get a sense of what styles / fabrics work on your frame. They are chock full of relatable tips.

    3. You need to shop online regardless. Even downtown in cities, stores aren’t carrying a ton of structured workwear.

    4. Post your budget for a great jacket and I am sure this group can provide some suggestions for where to shop. But I don’t think IRL will work; most places don’t have racks of workwear.

      1. I don’t think it’s workwear so much as elevated looks that are at the business end of business casual vs truly casual. Do DC stores carry that?

        1. what you are describing IS workwear. It’s thin on the ground in stores because most workplaces have gone more to the casual end. As a starting place I’d browse NM, Bloomie’s, and Nordstrom online.

      2. Budget is . . . Flexible. I tried out Boss and Max Mara but it is for someone with at least 2” more of torso than I have. Akari’s is too $$$ but I got a great piece on EBay and then several that didn’t work at all. I’ve stuck to J Crew Lady jackets but the next thing in my closet just shouldn’t be yet another iteration of that. They are great but I want to elevate beyond it a bit.

          1. Whatever it is, it is hard to shop for! The waists on items are typically at my hips (largest part) and straining. If they fit the hips, then the bust is too big. “Cropped” jackets often fit me like a normal non-cropped item, so I’m trying to shop now because a longer jacket is just a sad look on me. I know that Justice Kagan is not tall at all and I bet that she is relieved that she can now wear a robe at work (kidding and I know they don’t glide around like a choir in the break room or the office gym).

        2. Nordstrom carries a lot of really nice blazers – veronica beard, l’agence, cinq a sept, etc. etc. that at least have the kind of cool girl in the workplace style that I think you’re describing? I am not sure how they would fit on your body type as we’re not similar, but perhaps you could look on the website, filter for blazers (maybe in the contemporary section only), and try a bunch? Now that I know my size in those brands, I buy them on Poshmark/in final sales to reduce the price a bit. I think $700 for a trendy blazer is silly.

    7. Can you make an appointment at MM LaFleur while you’re in DC? It’s nice to work with a stylist and try on things you might not have picked on your own.

    8. Back in the suit days, I used to say my wardrobe was “suits and sweats“ so I feel your pain there.

      What really helped me was getting a Nordstrom personal stylist to help me put together a non-formal capsule wardrobe that bridge the gap between smart, casual, and business casual. I have good instincts there now but at the time I had zero idea what to do.

      One thing I had to get past with my own self was the idea that you should spend a little money on clothes that are not suits. I wanted everything that wasn’t a suit to be priced like champion sweats.

      A smart casual wardrobe that has a handful of really nice pieces comes across much better than something you tried to cobble together from clearance racks.

    9. I’m a 5’2″, pear and the struggle is real. Everything’s cut long and boxy.

      I really liked the Theory shrunken blazer. Probably more basic than you’re looking for, but likely in stock at Nordstrom, especially if you call ahead for a style appointment.

      1. It’s not at the price point you suggested, but Boden runs a bit short and might be an option.

      1. didn’t nina used to do bespoke jackets? i remember some article from long ago. that’s the true answer if you want to “dress like a politician,” get bespoke jackets and suits.

    11. I just did some image searching for Gina Raimondo and I see a lot of interesting blazers/jackets. This is a good time to shop for that stuff because there is more of it in fall collections than in spring or summer. I have gotten these kinds of jackets at Talbots, Ann Taylor, L’agence, and Veronica beard. Talbots is my favorite because they have so many size options that it’s easier to get something that really fits.

      I live in SF, where there are plenty of options for in-store denim and hoodies but no structured workwear. I agree that your absolute best bet is online. But I do find that DC has better workwear available in stores. I’m always pleasantly surprised at the options, perhaps just compared to my S.F. baseline. I’d consider making a personal shopper appointment with someone at nordstroms in DC and tell them as much information in advance about what you want.

      Finally, I think for an office at the upper end of casual, it’s really helpful to invest in good basics – jeans, shoes, tees to wear under blazers. Getting those right makes everything look better.

    12. I suggest you check out Betsy Fisher online. That used to be the “go-to” boutique for private law firm attorneys, but the brick and mortar shop closed some years ago. That site should be tapped into the DC “vibe” for profesional-level working women. The other regional retailer (mentioned in another comment or two) is Nina Mclemore, worth checking out, too. Good luck!

  5. Is it just me or has there been a huge rise in vague, stream-of-consciousness musings posing as questions here? I’m often reading for a long time trying to find a point and when I get there, it’s some hypothetical “what if” scenario that doesn’t even seem tied to anyone’s real life. I’ve read here for over 10 years and I don’t really recall this happening before. Is this happening often or do I just have confirmation bias every time I see one of those?

    1. IDK. There have always been a lot of what will my future be like if I do or don’t have kids or live here vs there or take this job or schooling vs not. Which I get. If I get a wish, it will be to predict the future and then I will go buy a Powerball ticket. Those fortune tellers don’t go out of business. This is just crowdsourcing that, no?

    2. I don’t know. I’ve been reading for about a decade (took a few pandemic years off) and I feel like this has always been a forum for the angst-ridden question asking. Which I think is appropriate. There aren’t a lot of forums that let you think about meandering things “out loud.” People here tend to read and comprehend at a higher level than the average Internet forum.

    4. Some of the posts do seem to get a bit weird, and I’ve been reading for almost ten years.

      I’ve long wished that everyone would have to choose some sort of non-“Anon” handle, even if you change it every day, akin to AAM commenting rules. As it stands, the few non-Anons are often attacked and dogpiled until they leave (eg Diana Barry, Dr. The Original…), or simply go Anon or quietly leave (PomPom, CountC, Rainbow Hair, pugsnbourbon).

      1. I’ve noticed this, which is why I stay Anon. Commenters here tend to get specific in their targeting of commenters they think they “know.”

        1. Yep, and it’s a vicious cycle. As fewer people have handles, they are subject to more targeting. So the go Anon, and then more targeting of specific commenters, and…..

      2. All the Anons drives me crazy. It makes it so hard to follow threads and I think people aren’t as kind when they’re posting under anon.

        I use a handle, and I solve the attacking/tracking problem by changing my handle every so often.

      3. Yes, there’s one Anon who really finds me annoying, but because she doesn’t have a unique handle, I have no idea whether the Anon I’m replying to is her or not. If I could tell, I’d love to avoid her, because we have never had a productive conversation.

        2. Jfc comment detectives are my least favorite thing about this place. Y’all are in the line of work if you can be so certain about who is who.

          2. Really? I thought you were talking about me because there have been at least two occasions where I thought you posted something incredibly rude for no reason and I said as much. However, I have never referenced a prior post of yours.

          3. Oh, I definitely meant you! You have referenced your prior comments. Pick up a real username so we can just avoid each other, please!

          4. It’s not just one. I’m not Anon at 2:07, have posted when you have been rude in the past, and never mentioned another comment.

          5. I’ve only been called rude twice, so either you’re lying or the Anon at 2:07 is lying. Or you’re the same person, which would make more sense given how close together in time these comments are. Either way, yawn.

          6. Peloton, I think you have some reflecting to do. I’ve found it to be a good rule of thumb that if more than one poster says something strong like you are rude in a post, there’s a good chance that you are. Anyone can have one “hater” but when it’s more than one, it’s usually indicative of an issue.

          7. Different poster, Peleton, but I think you were rude yesterday afternoon, and I was disappointed.

          8. My comments yesterday were cheering on someone about to take the bar, agreeing with other commenters about how a woman could solve a problem, saying my sunscreen preferences, giving a book recommendation, and applauding the poster who was going to send a nice note to someone who had impacted her. Genuinely, if you thought any of those were “rude”, I think the issue is with you.

            In any event, I’ll probably just go Anon from now on so I can be “rude” in peace like everyone else :)

          9. Oh yeah! I was following the Anon and Pelaton back and forth (over the weekend? Last week?) That was one that made me realize that having a commenting handle probably wasn’t worth it.

          10. Ok, so because it’s a slow afternoon I went back to the Peloton/Anon exchange. Peloton’s comments were so benign, it barely (to my mind) warranted a call out. And we touched on the same subject today (what to call Kamala Harris.) some of the commenters today were much ruder (but still benign?) than my perception of Peloton earlier this week.

      2. I agree. The writing style is so distinctive that I think it’s just one person or maybe a two or three.

    6. There is one style of post that tends to be meandering and dramatic with lots of asides and brackets and such, and it is hard to figure out whether it’s an actual question or just anxiety or venting. Those have been around for at least a few years and it’s only on quiet days that I have the stamina to parse them to see if I can reply with anything useful!

      But like others on this thread, I’m grateful to have a place where you can actually include nuances and detail to get better advice. Not many places on the internet have the patience or intelligence to do it!

      1. That’s exactly it – a million parentheses and asides and a tone of anxiety. Every now and then would be one thing, but I swear it’s almost daily.

          2. This is a good point. I have a relative with dementia (and ADD) who perseverates on the same topics every single day. I see some similarities here.

    7. I think I’m guilty of this. I roped you all into my ghosting friend situation. I can explain why though! It just doesn’t seem socially appropriate to ask anyone IRL about it especially because there’s a lot of overlap in our personal and professional circles. Could I theoretically use my therapist for this? Yeah, but I’m cheap and want to spend my therapy time and money on me and self improvement not trying to understand my friends actions. Sorry for using you as an external brain, it’s not appropriate but I also don’t know how to deal with this sort of stuff appropriately.

      1. This was totally fine. I thought it was interesting that I think no one who replied (including me) guessed what was happening, even though the real explanation made complete sense of the mixed messaging.

      2. I don’t think that’s the kind of post she means. That was actually a specific question and I understand why you’d ask it here. It’s more the paragraph long anxiety ridden posts about college being expensive and hard to get into when it’s not clear if the poster even has kids, how old they are, what or where they want to study, how much money she has available, or anything else that you could actually answer or try to help with.

        3. Same. Yours was a complicated question coherently written. Others are theoretically-straightforward questions buried in a paragraph of tangents.

        4. Yes! Or like that weird funeral question the other night. It wasn’t clear who wanted to skip the funeral or for what reason or what the relationship was with the deceased or the relationship with the person who was judging. Just a rambling paragraph of angst.

          1. That one was vaguebooking, just begging for the “why? What happened?” level of attention. I stopped falling for that around 2012 vis a vis my own dramatic sister.

      3. Feel free to ask this kind of question. But it helps to have self-awareness about it. That is, to know that you’re asking us to be therapists versus just venting, yelling, complaining, dumping, or spiraling as if you’re using the forum posts here as a journal and there aren’t any real people who read them.

      6. I just want to point out that sometimes this is actually a good talk to have w your therapists. How to react and let go of your friend. My therapist said something along the lines of “everyone is doing their best for them at any given time.” Something akin to that. And it helped put some things into perspective for me with a close friend that ghosted me too.

    8. if anything, there are weekly posts now that diagnose, as you put it, ‘a huge rise’ in some certain kind of post, lol.

      1. yes, this surprises me. But I have to say, folks are very supportive and often have great suggestions.

    9. If you think long, rambling, probably fictional postings are new, you have forgotten about one of our most famous (now banned) brethren, I fear!

      1. Those were obviously a long con and I thought they were funny – they weren’t the kind of rambling anxiety dump that is all too common now.

        1. Someone needs to write some Ellen fanfic. I can’t say im a lawyer fan girl, but I am an Ellen fan girl.

      3. I thought Ellen was not banned, but held in mod until late in the day. (which I appreciate!)

    10. I mean I don’t consider myself the thread police. If I don’t like it, can’t get thru it, or don’t have time for it – I skip it.

    11. The skies are gray this morning. My toes are sort of itchy and I think about this one professor I had in college and wonder why the birds are eating the berries that aren’t edible on the hedges outside the window.

    12. There’s definitely one person who has a lot of anxiety about college and a neurodivergent kid and has posted a few stream of consciousness questions about it. I don’t feel like there’s been a big rise in those kinds of questions in general though and none of the posts above yours today seem rambling.

      1. The former DCer posting about her wardrobe was rambling, with lots of irrelevant asides

    13. Yes it’s happening more and it bugs me too. Just rambling anxiety dumps that don’t make sense, draw a conclusion, or ask a question. So so so many about college but also other topics.

    15. Yeah, I think maybe a rule about posting things that are open to discussion versus not seeking a response but just venting, rants, and weird announcements (about the state of their world I guess?) … would help. It’s a waste of time to read a bunch of disjointed nonsense without any clear purpose. I know the ideal is to ignore but you can’t know what it is until after you’ve read it and are going “what the heck did I just read?”

      1. OP here and that’s exactly it – I’ll see the word “college” or “mother-in-law” and my interest is piqued because I tend to enjoy conversations about college and family issues, but then I’m more baffled as I read and I’m left wondering if the poster even has a mother-in-law or if it was all a hypothetical. I’ve started collapsing sooner and can continue to do so, but the sheer frequency of those types of posts (including the funeral one the other day, as mentioned above) had me wondering.

    16. There is one poster here with a distinct writing style who has complained about the same things for years – Being unsatisfied with her high paying gov’t job after being kicked out of BigLaw; issues with her enmeshed aging parents and more successful sister who is mean to her; being extremely Covid cautious to the point where she will not push the elevator button in her apartment, refuses to buy a house bc she was freaking out about touring houses while masked, is stuck in the same job bc she is scared to ask for people to network for coffee outdoors; always asks what to do if you are not where you imagined your life would be. She never follows up on questions on her posts, and when she posts, she has like three separate topics per day. I think her new thing is how to eat plums.

      I call her the “salsa poster” because of a very old post where she looked down on her government colleagues for being actual humans who socialized and traded salsa recipes instead of discussing the newest Supreme Court cases in great detail. I know this is the same poster because many of her posts reference info from previous posts.

      As to why I’m so ‘obsessed’ as to remember this Anon in particular – her posts are triggering to me bc they provide a window into what my life could be like if I let uncontrolled anxiety take the wheel, or how isolating it can be to always feel like I’m better than everybody else.

      1. Ok you may think that poster is weird, but I now think you’re a pathetic stalker. Get a life.

        1. Completely disagree. There have been certain posts that have triggered me similarly and I can recall them years later. Doesn’t mean it’s all I think about, and “stalker” has an actual meaning.

          I also recognize the exact poster this person is describing, so it’s not just her.

      2. Yikes. You may not have uncontrolled anxiety but you do sound mean. I don’t think all of these are the same person. I do recall the person who used to post a lot regarding being pushed out of biglaw and a government job. I feel like we haven’t seen her in years?

        I did post about plum jam recently so maybe you’re talking about me? But I’m not a lawyer and don’t live in an apartment.

      3. There’s another one who muses about how her teen daughters have autism and are bad at math and can’t find clothes that fit and aren’t going to get in to state U and how everything is so complicated and fraught for teens these days, and another (or the same one?) who posts about nephews’ and nieces’ college financing woes.

      4. Well bless your heart. I have no idea as IDK who you’re referring to as I don’t read here daily. Maybe that poster is awful. But how do you think YOU sound?

      5. You’re not alone, I recognize this poster all the time too! I think she lives in DC/VA and is South Asian. The writing style triggers me as well.

  6. Recommendations wanted:
    In September I will be driving with a trailer from Sioux Falls SD to Yellowstone park, with 4-5 days available
    I will be visiting Yellowstone directly once my partner gets there.
    Looking for any recommendations on things to see, do, places to eat. TIA!

    1. Stop at the Corn Palace and Wall Drug… stretch your legs and take in a bit of kitsch. Wall Drug does serve a good burger, too.

    2. If you stop in Bozeman along the way (don’t know what route you’re taking), I recommend the Museum of the Rockies for the Siebel Dinosaur Complex. It focuses on finds from the Hells Creek Formation near Jordon, MT (T rex, Tricertops, Velociraptors).

    3. I really enjoyed visiting Badlands NP, and there is a lot to see in the Black Hills, including Mt. Rushmore. Roadsideamerica.com is really fun for planning road trips if you have any interest in kitsch. I agree that Wall Drug and Corn Palace are well worth a stop.

    4. Wind Cave national park is on the way, and the cave is fine but the surprise been I loved is, there is a moderate hike through a large open field where the bison herds often hang out. There were very few people when I went, and you’re just… walking around (far around!) these massive massive animals. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever done

    5. I love Devil’s Tower. The walk around it is just over a mile and easily done in under an hour, which is a nice break from driving.

      REDwater Kitchen and the Farmhouse in Spearfish are great, and so is Buffalo Jump Saloon in Beulah.

      And while the Black Hills are beautiful, Deadwood is not interesting at all. Just touristy spots and casinos, no need to stop there.

      1. Also, if you decide to do a southern route through Wyoming, the Chugwater Soda Fountain is a lovely throwback and totally worth a stop.

    6. All good suggestions. I was in SD in May and we also thought the Minute Man missile silo and museum were really interesting. The Needles Highway and Custer State Park were great, too.

    7. No specific recommendations, just that if you haven’t driven with a trailer before, make sure you practice backing up ahead of time! Ask me how I know….

  7. How do I talk to my manager about being a micromanager? Or is there no hope? I love what I do, but I’m exhausted by her – I can’t do anything without her making criticisms, even something as low stakes as an email or Teams message. I feel like I don’t have autonomy or ownership of anything I produce because she has to see and edit everything, even if her edits don’t actually make a difference. Just this morning it was criticism over what folder I keep a file in. Like…can I not decide what folder is appropriate for my own document? JFC.

    We have a performance review session coming up and I would love to (gently, nicely) give her feedback about this, but I don’t know if it’s worth it.

    2. What are your comparative roles, and how long have you been in them? The advice would be different if you’re an entry level person who has been on the job for 3 months and she has 10 years experience, versus if you’re a mid-level person with 15 years of experience and she’s a brand-new manager with 3 months on the job.

    3. Is she a newer manager? if so, i would be more likely to have the conversation/give feedback than i would be for a long time manager. I’d also reflect on, has anything gone wrong from her perspective. I’d have the conversation in a normal 1:1 not in a performance review. Are the edits any sort of consistent theme? I had a manager who was really particular about commas and sentence structure in powerpoint. My general approach would be something like, I’ve noticed a pattern of you giving me feedback about these 3 things. In my past roles i have normally done these things successfully with less oversight. Has there been a problem you have had to deal with? or is there a way I can make sure you feel more comfortable with my work overall with fewer reviews. Then maybe be prepared to discuss having a template, agreed to format, or type of review schedule for key stakeholders.

    4. I don’t think there’s a benefit. I can almost see you/your work style being attacked as a consequence.

      I had a boss like this, but she had many direct reports, a few who had worked with her in past professional lives, too. So I had a lot of guidance and commiseration from my peers and learned how to work within that system. She was brilliant though, so I gave her a pass for her hyper fixation on my work and outreach style and tried to learn what I could from her.

    5. That it’s over things with little to no consequence shows it’s a her thing and not a you thing. What do you hope to get by giving her feedback? You will win some trust over time, but that sort of need for control or level of anxiety is usually deep-rooted and beyond the workplace. I think bringing it up is only likely to backfire on you.

    6. I did this and my boss reacted horribly. I had to back pedal and say “…are you not confident in me or my work..” rather than the conversation I wanted to have about him micromanaging me. I will never bring it up again.

    8. I think you can say that you’d appreciate more autonomy. For instance she can think of it as “authority” like you have authority to do a, b, and c independently without review. Focus on efficiency.

    9. I’d give it one try- in the moment when she starts to tell you about the correct folder to put something in, ask her “yeah, that’s what I always do- do you not trust me to handle this?”. Have a followup at 1:1 meeting- “I’ve noticed a pattern where it feels like you think I need a lot of supervision- is this correct? Is there something else going on?”

      And when this inevitably doesn’t work, go find a new job.

      1. That’s a really interesting way of approaching it. My automatic reaction every time it happens is apologize instead of owning it.

  8. I’m going engagement ring shopping with my partner this weekend and I’m so excited. I have an idea of what I want, but I want to hear about things you love or maybe don’t love about your own ring and things to look for while trying them on. Should I also be trying on wedding bands to see what I’ll want there and how it matches? Do you usually wear both rings at the same time or change it up? Thoughts on decoy rings or silicone ones?

    1. 100% think about your band at the same time as your engagement ring. I wanted my engagement ring stone to be set high enough that a slim diamond band could sit “flush.”

      I almost always wear both. Have never bothered with a decoy or silicone, the latter in particular seeming like a solution in search of a problem (taking your ring off for exercise or home improvement is NBD).

      1. +1

        Also consider whether you will want to wear your wedding band solo from time to time. A curved wedding band may work beautifully with an engagement ring, but may not be the look you want when worn alone.

        Also think about your style and what you will want to wear on a regular basis. With lab stones, you can get a massive rock for a reasonable price, but will it get in the way or irk you on a daily basis? If you want a non-diamond stone, avoid ones that are soft (aquamarine or emerald) and remember that harder stones like sapphire come in some beautiful colors other than dark blue. Re stone shape: pears and marquis stones are gorgeous, but may snag your clothes. If you are considering a more ornate band (pave stones, filigree, engravings etc), keep in mind that you’ll need to clean it more frequently than a plain band.

        Enjoy!

          1. Thanks for your helpful contribution to this topic. Clearly a lot of people like them, as there are lots on the market.

        2. My mom’s is a pear so I am planning to look at some pears but I will totally keep snagging in mind.

          1. How the stone is set can drastically effect how much it snags – for instance, a bezel set pear wouldn’t snag much or at all, I imagine.

          2. I have been seeing pears set horizontally and I think that’s a fun, fresh look.

    2. I like silicone rings for sports, exercise, messy volunteer projects, etc. because they prevent the “oh no, I lost my rings!” panic that can randomly occur when you don’t wear your wedding ring, and they signal marital status in situations where that is useful.

    3. Have so much fun! Yes, I would think about the wedding band and how it goes with your engagement ring. I’ve been married for 15yrs so I mostly wear my wedding and anniversary bands day to day and my engagement ring when I’m ‘out’ (dinners, in the office, etc.).
      I’d strongly suggest buying a ring and band that have the shank filled on the underside (the entire band that wraps around your finger should be solid and filled in unless the specific design prevents it). It’s more comfortable to wear and the ring will hold up better as it’s heavier/more solid.

    5. I picked my engagement ring and then had a custom band designed to match it (my engagement ring is art deco-style and a somewhat unusual octagonal shape), so that’s an option if you find a ring you love but it doesn’t seem like it goes with standard bands. One thing I like about my ring is it’s pretty low set, so it doesn’t snag on things (this might not be the right word to describe it–essentially, the prongs aren’t high and the diamond doesn’t stick out). I have a decoy ring for when I travel abroad or trips where I wouldn’t want to wear my rings (hiking in national parks, eg). For every day situations where I wouldn’t want to wear my ring (working out, horseback riding, etc), i just don’t wear one. Maybe I just exude RBF, but randos hitting on me at the gym because I’m not wearing a ring has never been an issue.

    6. i LOVE my engagement ring more than I ever thought I would. not to sound braggy, but I often receive unsolicited compliments on it. I started out my search thinking I wanted a larger round stone with some kind of side stone or baguettes, but that style did not look good on me. I was almost dead set on a round stone, but ended up with a 3 stone oval. one thing i did not think about at the time, but am grateful it turned out that way is that my stones sit low so they don’t get caught on stuff. i usually wear both rings at the same time but on different hands. I have an eternity band and it’s just too much sparkle for me when i wear them together. from friends who have rings with lots of little stones, they seem to have the most trouble with a stone falling out, etc. my mom never took her rings off so i thought i was supposed to wear them 24/7, but when I first got engaged I was waking up with blue fingers bc apparently the way I sleep with my hands under my head I was cutting off the circulation to my fingers, so now I take them off to shower and sleep. I also take them off when I workout and don’t wear them when traveling overseas.

      1. I don’t think my mom has ever taken her rings off, I think it would need to be cut off at this point. I’m not a jewelry person in general and don’t generally wear any rings, so wearing one every day will be a change. I tend to get anxiety about them getting stuck.

        I also love that everyone here has put so much thought into it. My partner thought it was ruining the surprise when I said I want to pick out the ring! If I’m going to wear it forever, I do not want a surprise.

        1. Oh lol, my husband didn’t even go with me when I picked out my ring! I don’t care for second opinions.

      2. I have an oval in a 5 stone setting, and I also get compliments on it. A biased opinion, but I think the shape in the right proportions is flattering to the finger, and classic but also eye catching.

        I have a plain band that matches my husband’s wedding ring that I wear on casual days and working out. I like it and it’s very practical, but for our 10 year anniversary, I plan to get a third ring, probably some sort of eternity ring or one with engraving and inset stones, to wear with the wedding band on the days at home.

      3. That is funny. My engagement ring is vintage/antique from the turn of the last century and is a three stone oval set in a channel. I guess some things are timeless

    7. I’ve been married 20 years and still LOVE my rings. I have never kept my wedding band and engagement ring separate. They are soldered together. I take the ring off when I’m sleeping, showering, and working out. I don’t have a decoy ring, although there are times when I think it would be helpful, like when I’m traveling or doing things when I don’t want to have a ring in the way.

      Go with what looks good on you, even if it’s different from what you expected!

    8. Have fun and realize it doesn’t have to be the only thing you wear on your wedding finger. I have a beautiful vintage ring that’s my actual wedding ring, but I don’t wear it every day. I mix it up with stacking bands and other rings I’ve gotten over the years depending on my mood.

      1. I’m on my third or fourth wedding ring, depending on how you count. Married to the same man. It’s a ring, not a marriage!

    9. Ring shopping is so much fun! A few thoughts:
      – I’m glad I got pave diamonds only halfway around the band instead of three quarters. I frequently bang the back of my ring on tables so any diamonds there would be a goner.
      – The band should be at least 1.8mm wide, ideally 2mm or larger. Any thinner than that and your band will warp eventually. I was surprised by how much I liked a cathedral setting, and it makes the setting sturdier.
      – Some people prefer a low setting as it’s less likely to snag on clothing or bump into things. I love my high setting, and it’s easier to fit with a wedding band. Ultimately it’s a personal preference.
      – Research lab grown diamonds. You get WAY more bang for your buck.
      – Understand which of the four C’s are important for your desired shape. Clarity matters most for emerald cuts, color matters a lot for cushion cuts, etc.
      – The jeweler probably doesn’t have the exact diamond you want on hand. They should have a few sizes of each cut in stock so you get a general idea. Then you tell the jeweler what specs you’re looking for and they order a few stones for you to view in person. It can take several visits before you have the finished product.
      – Always use a local jeweler. Chain jewelers upcharge you and offer lower quality.

    10. I LOVE my engagement ring. I’m not a jewelry person so I wear both 24/7 and just never take them off. On vs off vs one vs decoy aren’t decisions I want to make. My two “complaints” about my ring are: my husband didn’t think about a wedding band and there’s not one that meshes great. I wound up getting a very thin plain band that kind of hides under my beautiful ring. My ring is a little on the looser side so the solitaire causes it to spin a lot. I prefer slightly loose to slightly tight so I’ve accepted it but that is the biggest annoyance. It really doesn’t catch on things like I was worried it would.

    11. I have a family ring, so didn’t pick it out, BUT, it has these elements that I love: vintage/unique style, low profile so easy to wear/doesn’t get caught on stuff, not super ostentatious. If I were to have picked out a ring, probably would have liked some colored gemstones in there, but would definitely go vintage. Also, my ring is a diagonal/bypass style, so not suited to wearing with a band (even a custom one made to fit would look odd), so I picked out a unique gold band I wear separately – sometimes it’s nice to have a non-sparkly option! I agree with others that it’s best to try things on to see what you like, then, discuss practicalities with stone hardness, metal type, style, budget, etc.

    12. i wanted an emerald cut because i thought it was art deco and ckassy. but they show ALL the dirt very easily, so if you’re not into cleaning your diamond regularly, don’t get emerald cut.

      i did not consider the wedding band and engagement ring together and have a curved band which unfortunately i wear by itself most days now because the prongs in the emerald cut ring are loose (and my fingers are too fat and i’d like to trade it in for a larger diamond). i’ve thought about looking for alternate wedding bands to swap out my curved one but it’s a pretty low priority.

      think about how it will twist on your hands if you lose a bit of weight. think about what it might catch on in your life. think about how often you want to wear it.

      i’d do a lab diamond over real, but either way, don’t go into debt for a wedding ring.

    13. That’s so exciting! Congratulations!

      And my personal experience the ring I want to wear every day is now a band style ring with nothing sticking up. I’ve been married for 25 years. I’m not trying to impress anyone. I just want a ring that isn’t too precious for me to do all the things I do with my hands, and I definitely don’t want a ring that snags on anything.

      1. To be clear, my band style ring has diamonds in it. And it’s not my wedding ring either. It’s an entirely new ring that I wear instead of my original engagement ring, which I will refashion for my daughter when the day comes.

    14. I wear neither ring! I just am not a ring person. My husband came from a family of Ring People, but I convinced him to get my cheap rings because I knew I wouldn’t actually wear them. I am just mentioning this because if you are also not a ring person, it’s okay to just say “let’s go cheap now and see if I change,” and do an upgrade down the line if you do.

      If you ARE a ring person, I think you are getting a lot of great advice!! But it’s also OK to not be one, and no one has said that yet :)

    15. If you get a gold band, make sure it is thick enough so that it 1) doesn’t get bent from day to day usage and 2) doesn’t get worn down too much through a lifetime of wearing and buffing/cleaning.

    16. Definitely get a coordinating set. I didn’t so this 30 years ago because DH chose the engagement ring and surprised me. The wedding band was nice on it’s own but it was never a good fit with engagement ring which had it’s own issues with trillions set on either side of the big (round) stone that fell out a couple of times. A couple of months ago I had the original stone placed a new setting and I love it. Also got a new wedding band that perfectly compliments the engagement ring. Simple but sparkly and I get a lot of compliments. I had a necklace made with the diamonds from my old wedding band and a sapphire stone from a ring that inherited from my favorite aunt. I wear it almost daily.

    17. Late to the party, but I saw this earlier and wanted to respond.

      Second marriage here, so I’ll compare and contrast a little for you.

      My first e-ring was big and flashy and set in a very tall setting. It was a radiant cut (shaped like an emerald cut, but with the facets of a round), so the 4 prongs on each corner of the stone caught on everything, and I was constantly knocking the setting against things. I had no idea that radiants were the trendy setting of 2005 when we got engaged, but when I inquired about possibly trading it in on 2017’s stone, the jeweler nicely told me it was very dated. Other than some specialty cuts, I didn’t realize diamonds really got dated! Moral: think about how you use your hands in every day life and think about trendiness because your ring will reflect the time you get married, just like your wedding pictures. (For the record, I still think radiants are gorgeous! Hmph to all jewelers! 😉)

      For my second ring, I was older and wiser. I intentionally selected a low profile ring to avoid the banging and an antique cut of stone (rose cut) that wouldn’t be as flashy as that wasn’t who I was anymore. My wedding band does not match because there wasn’t one offered, so I just got pavé. I wanted stones halfway around, but I bought the band literally on my way to the airport for the wedding bc I thought I hadn’t wanted one and then decided I did, and fully around was all they had in stock in my size that minute.

      Your finger will sort of tell you which ring it wants, like a wand in Harry Potter ha. I loved the idea of X and Y, and I’d try on X and Y and they’d look meh, and then I’d try on F and it looked great and I was surprised. Moral: try on cuts and styles that aren’t the ones you think you love.

      It’s ok to ask the jeweler for a card with the ring’s info and wait a day or two or a week and go back and ask to see it again. I visited my ring three times before I finally gave the card to my partner ha! (I was a little in my head after the first ring 😉)

      Have so much fun!! This is a special time ☺️ I loved it and have wonderful memories (of both times!).

  9. What sort of boots do you expect to wear to work this fall and winter? Toe shape, shaft height, heel height, sole, etc.

    I’m trying to purge older boot styles and I’m baffled re: the shape of what’s to come. The stiletto loose-shaft boots I’m seeing in fashion editorial content (not at all in the wild!) with heels over 2″ are not for me.

    I’m in higher ed administration and generally dress on the sharp end of business casual, including wide-leg pants and some dresses and skirts. We get real winter here, so I do need some boots in rotation–loafers and other low-profile flats won’t work as my only option.

    1. I wear a lot of shapes and don’t purge boots for this reason. My rule with boots is like any other shoe, if it’s too scuffed or worn, I toss. If not, I keep.

      1. I don’t purge any of my flat boots. Mostly I wear them with dresses and tights in the winter. Mostly in the coldest weather as a practical choice. In my 40s and will probably never buy a boot with a heel again.

      2. I wear a lot of shapes and styles too. I prefer to buy high quality footwear, which means that boots are $$$$. Much as with bags and winter coats, I’m not going to adhere to trends in boots. I can’t.

        1. I can’t, either. When I buy a pair of boots, they are high quality and not cheap. I’m going to wear them until they die. Most of my styles are pretty classic and don’t really look dated, even if they aren’t the latest silhouette.

          1. +1

            Agree with all of these. I have a great collection of beautiful boots and I maintain them and rotate them based on need/trends. Would never just toss them.

    2. I was just wondering this too. I am not chucking my classic waterproof black tall boots or my now dated short “hooves” since they’re in good condition, but I don’t really even know what I’m supposed to be wearing instead.

      1. I’m feeling vindicated that I bought only one pair of ankle boots. I’ll still wear them with bootcut jeans.

        1. Ankle boots are still fine w tights and skirts/dresses. I view them as a timeless and practical option.

    3. I still wear knee-high flat boots with skirts in winter. I don’t bother with high heel boots as they defeat the purpose of being good for walking in cold weather.

      I think the dated look is boots over skinnies.

    5. I keep almost all of my boots as I live in MA and I need them for heavy duty winter weather. My most ‘current’ boots that I look forward to wearing with midi skirts are a sleek black moto boot – similar to the prada boots that Gwenyth Paltrow wore to her ski trial. I aspire for my winter work wardrobe to look like her court outfits! I tend to wear pointy toed/sleek boots with my fancier work or evening dresses, it’s not a super trendy look but it’s classic and works for the weather. I agree that the look that’s fully out is pants tucked into boots.

      1. Serious question: where does she likely shop? Or have her people shop? Maybe I don’t need more workwear I need skintrial outfits (and a summer version of that).

        2. She likely has a personal shopper but the brands she wears are available at a Neiman Marcus/Saks equivalent – it’s almost entirely quiet luxury. The Row, Bruno Cucinelli, Goop cashmere, Celine, Prada, etc. ‘Downmarket’ versions would be Hugo Boss/Veronica Beard, etc.

      2. I was wondering about a taller chelsea boot with lug soles like the Prada one. I’d definitely wear that style if I already had them, but I’m thinking a more streamlined sole might have more longevity. I’ve already purged most of my low-cut ankle boots (all pretty worn out). I have some tapered almond taller chelseas (Ecco) that are newish and look nice with wide-leg pants.

        I keep my better boots for a long time and maintain them. I have tricky feet with high arches and no longer wear anything over about 2″ in a block heel–so if they feel good and keep out the weather, they are staying, either in active use or storage.

        I have some old Frye campus boots with square toes that I may bring back out after a long time in storage. Also a pair of flat black riding boots (Frye Melissa) that I used to wear over jeans and wore a few times with midi skirts last year; they don’t feel fabulous, but they are definitely warm and practical, and plenty of colleagues wear similar ones.

        I also have several lace/combat-type boots (mostly Taos and Pikolinos) that are really comfortable and useful, both for WFH and often at the office.

    6. Im also curious about boots for what Im wearing now. My office is super casual and my style is in flux at the moment. I’ve got a couple chelsea/ low top riding boots that I’ll keep wearing this year.

      I want to keep the knee high boots that I have and the black Blondo 2 inch booties that I have (they are water proof and were my go to for years with every level of formality.). But the backs of the heels/soles are cracked and scuffed to bits on both. Repairing would cost more than what I paid since they were thrifted/ dsw buys . And the knee highs are also a tad tighter on my calf than is comfortable.

    7. I purged my ankle boots two winters ago and I don’t miss them at all. I may also get rid of my old tall riding boots, as I don’t see myself wearing them with skirts and they don’t look good with any of the pants I wear now. The only boots I really wear are what I would call granny style lace up boots, and I mainly wear them for weather reasons.

    8. The boots I’ve worn to work the past few years are pretty varied.
      – Polished combat boots with lug soles and round toes work well with slightly cropped pants
      – Square toe, mid height block heel ankle boots with midi skirts, dresses, and some pants
      – Pointed toe block heel ankle boots are better with longer wide leg pants

      My knees can’t take stilettos, so the trendy boots you mentioned are out for me. I wouldn’t mind a kitten heel version, but I have thick calves, and would need try them on before committing. Also, I still have a pair of heeled tall boots that are amazing to wear under pants when it’s really cold out.

  10. My husband has accepted a job in an adjoining state, and we need to sell our house / buy a new house / relocate. He can commute during the week for the first month or so, putting us at a mid-October move, ideally.
    I know people do this all the time but I’m feeling overwhelmed by the task ahead and how to organize / plan. Does anyone have an online resource, maybe a project plan? I can think of some of the individual steps — interview agents to sell our house, Marie Kondo our possessions, apply for a bridge loan (?) etc., but would love some guidance as to what order to go about them!

    1. Is he getting any relocation assistance from the new company?
      Is your house ready to go on the market or does it need any repairs?
      Have you considered renting a place in the new area so you can get a better idea of where you want to settle? Or are you already very familiar with the area?

    2. Good realtors on the sell side and then the buy side can be your best resources. They can help you tap into a whole bunch of things, even movers, decorators, practically like a logistics manager lite on the sell side and a travel agent/moving advisor on the buy side.
      Also, don’t fret. It seems overwhelming, but do a little bit every day. Find a friend who has done a relo before to talk you through some steps so you don’t feel overwhelmed.

    4. I would consider whether you can move your timetable up. Talk with your realtor, but mid-October is the start of the slow selling season in a lot of places. People don’t want to move over the holidays or when there may be snow on the ground. If you can list in September, that would significant help with selling your home in many markets.

  11. Any recommendations for hotels in Buenos Aires, Mendoza, or Panama City? We’re spending two weeks in South America in October. Panama will be a quick stop on the way back to the US since we connect there and we figured we’d spend a day or two to break up the long flight home.

    Also would love recs for tours, guides, or general tips on how to navigate Mendoza. Would prefer not to drive down there.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. So fun! This is a little old but you could check out Home in BA and the Trout and wine tours in Mendoza. We enjoyed both on our honey moon.

    2. Just chiming in to say how much I enjoyed visiting Iguazu back in 2019. If you’re going to be in that region, I highly recommend spending a day or two there.

    3. From Mendoza you can take a day trip to see Aconcagua, South America’s highest peak and one of the seven summits. Some day trips involve a little bit of light hiking (at high altitude!) but some are just a trip to the mountains with photo stops.

    4. It’s been almost a decade, but we loved our stay at the Ace Hotel in Panama City.

    5. We stayed in the Alvear Palace in Buenos Aires, and it’s one of the nicest hotels I’ve stayed in anywhere in the world. Great location, beautiful facilities. Loved the rooftop bar. Also in Buenos Aires we did a cooking class at https://criollacooking.com/ and it was a real highlight. We also did a private one-day tour with a guide/driver we found on Viator and that was well worth it, too.

      In Mendoza, I’d recommend hiring a guide with a car who can take you around to the various wineries. We used The Winerist and were very happy with them although it wasn’t super cheap. https://www.winerist.com/country/argentina We stayed at Casa de Uco, in the Uco Valley outside of the city, and it was FABULOUS. It’s a winery and hotel and it was just out of this world. Beautiful rooms, great food and wine, and they gave us straw hats as a parting gift.

      Enjoy! You are going to love it!

    7. Oh, and the money situation in Argentina is a little weird: It’s the only place I’ve ever been where you can’t easily get local currency out of an ATM and also it’s not super easy to use credit cards for everything. Merchants will add a surcharge for credit cards, also you can’t add tips to a credit card bill in a restaurant. Take US currency in all denominations (100s and small bills) and they can exchange it for you at the hotel or a currency exchange shop, also many local merchants will tak US dollars as payment (e.g. at the art show outside the Recolta cemetery). We didn’t take enough cash and got caught short-handed — the most we could withdraw from an ATM was the equivalent of 30 US dollars, and they charged us an $8 fee for the privilege. Don’t be us!

    8. We stayed at the Four Seasons BA, and it was very nice. Great location! I agree with Senior Attorney re the money situation in Argentina.

  12. Chapter 13 here…I was approved for the apartment! I’ll be saving $600/month and will be in a unit that I like even better than my current one!

  13. Thank you to whoever posted yesterday whether they should send a note to mentors or people from years ago who may not remember them.

    Based on the responses to that thread, I sent a note after work to a doctor who did a lot for me in my 20s, through law school and early biglaw. I had no expectation he’d remember me as he’s spent a career seeing very serious issues and looks to be semi retired now. But I was also one of the youngest as his practice area leans towards problems more commonly seen with age.

    Wrote it anyway, for me, expecting no response because there really isn’t much to say a few decades later. Received a very kind note back at 9 am. So thanks OP and commenters. I do think I want to start being more intentional with kindness and thanking people. I definitely am never on the receiving end of that but I think it lifts people up which we could all use in our overworked busy lives.

    1. I’m so glad you did that — it’s a wonderful practice for everyone. Expressing gratitude does a lot for you. Hearing gratitude is uplifting to the recipient. Be promiscuous with your gratitude! It does great things in the world.

      1. I love this usage of the word promiscuous and agree with everything you said! Gratitude has repeatedly been shown to be good for mental health.

    2. Wonderful. I’m sure you made his day. He will never forget your simple act of kindness.

    3. I started writing notes of gratitude after doing it as an exercise for the Yale Happiness Course! Even if you are writing it for yourself, I don’t see any harm.

    4. Guaranteed you made his day. Doctors work a ton and don’t always get a lot of gratitude. Not saying they do it for gratitude and they understand that in stressful situations, people aren’t worried about thank yous. But it’s nice to receive a thank you even years after the fact. That’s why he responded at 9 am.

    5. I sent a hand-written note to a woman I considered a role model and (once upon a time) mentor in January, telling her how much she influenced my volunteer work among other things. She texted back her thanks and “glad to hear you’re still involved in X.” It turns out she was terminally ill and died a few months later. I had no idea she was ill, but I’m so glad I did it and made her day a little brighter.

      Do the thing! I don’t think this kind of letter can ever really go wrong.

  14. I have a work wardrobe hole. In the colder months, I’m a big fan of the swacket for a third piece. I don’t have anything comparable for the warmer months. Sometimes a cardigan just isn’t polished enough. Has anyone seen any cute jackets that are as easy to wear as a sweater jacket? I can’t stand feeling constricted in my clothes. I’m in higher ed admin, on the dressy end of business casual. I don’t need to wear full-blown suits most of the time, but I need to up my game.

    1. What about a silk scarf or a vest in a suiting fabric? Vests are back in a big way this year. I’m a huge fan of designer silk scarves and you can get them for a steal on the Real Real or ebay.

      1. Can someone tell me how to style vests? I see them and feel like people look so cool but I don’t know how to pair with the right pant waist and shirt.

        1. There’s a couple different kinds:

          What’s “hot” right now (although waning in the highest of high fashion trends) is a hip length kind of 90s style button-front tunic vest, worn over matching full length wide leg trousers with pleats–preferably either in a neutral or an interesting color (lilac, periwinkle, rust, etc). I also see this with v-neck 3 to 4 button vests as tops. Very Julia Roberts circa 1997.

          For waistcoats (meaning a low v, shawl collar style lapel or notched lapel, nipped waist, darts), they’re being worn as a cropped, shrunken “going out top” or as part of an “office siren” style look–midi pencil skirt or low slung pinstriped trousers, 90s eyeglasses, stiletto boot, tons of eye makeup. This is…not a realistic look for most of us in our 40s but for younger gals, it’s all the rage.

          I also like a longer waistcoat with a side zip close-fitting 1950’s style pant, for a kind of almost medieval page look, with pointed flats–this is terrific in interesting color combos like rust and ice blue, emerald and teal, etc.

    2. I don’t know if this is your jam but Uniqlo has an airism blazer that’s unlined and stretchy, so really easy to wear in the warm months and the stretch makes it very comfortable. Tbh, the fabric is a little scratchy but it doesn’t bother me. I wear it slightly oversized.

    3. Can you find a lightweight tweed in a summer color?
      Is a ponte knit blazer polished enough?

      1. I find ponte really hot, but I don’t mind them once the weather cools off. I’m hoping I can score a sale item or two!

    4. Seersucker blazer for summer. I have a couple (different prints) and they are in heavy rotation for summer.

    5. I hate to say it but the J acres lady jacket fits here for me and anything similar at Boden. If I can get one with a lining, even better.

    7. I have a couple of unlined cotton twill jackets that fill this niche for me. I don’t have any links for you because mine are a couple of years old, one is from Talbots, one is from the gap. I would say they’re roughly collarless blazer shaped, but not really, more like a jacket that you’d wear outside.

    9. This is the perfect use case for a linen blazer. I have them in white and chambray and they are super useful for summer layering.

    10. i like the nic & zoe cardigan for this – it falls a bit open but is very very thin

      otherwise i’d go for a linen blazer or sweater jacket if i needed to be outside, or just whatever you wear in winter if you’re inside while avoiding winter-only fabrics, details, colors (winter white, velvet, thick wool, corduroy)

  15. Taking huge breaths and reminding myself “That’s what the money’s for” when I feel frustrated today.

    2. oh that’s a solid mantra. I was up half the night ruminating on stupid work things, I’ll use that today too.

    3. I used to repeat that phrase l, and The Only Way Out is Through (thank you Senior Attorney?!) And remind myself, the only reason we have jobs is because of problems, and no one said those problems would be fun, interesting, or at all easy.

    4. Times like those are when I remind myself of when I was too broke to solve problems with money.

  16. Does anyone here have experience (1st or 2nd hand) with the civil reservist system? USAJOBS just posted a bunch of positions in my field with an agency I would really like to work more closely with. I think my boss would be supportive of the mission and wouldn’t have too much trouble covering my work if I was called up (my tasks are specialized but rarely mission-critical).

    But…I’m pregnant right now. DH and I have discussed that I should aim for this career jump long-term, but I have been planning to lean out during 2025 and maybe 2026…

    1. What is your child care set up likely to be and your backup and second backup? You will likely need all 3, a n able and willing partner, and ideally lots of local family.

  17. Hi all, I need help with making a birthday more fun. My son has a summer birthday and it always falls during the week that we’re on vacation with family. We fly to my in-law’s home, then drive about 5 hours away to a lake resort, (“Resort” is misleading though, this is not luxury, there is a pool and lots of lake adventures, though). Anyway, son is turning 7 this year and mentioned that there isnt much fanfare surrounding his birthday at the lake. He’s not wrong, its difficult to haul lots of decorations, we usually make a simple dessert of his choosing, and bring some simple presents (he gets the big stuff at home). Its tough to balance, because we are there with a couple of cousins his age and dont want to dominate the vacation with a huge annual celebration. Also, every day of the vacation is fun, so its hard to distinguish his birthday. Any thoughts?

      1. +1. My birthday is on a non-religious holiday and my parents always hosted a gathering with guests I didn’t choose. I hated it, and they had no idea until I finally worked up the courage to tell them. If your kid is complaining then the current arrangement doesn’t work.

        1. Me too, still have lots of baggage around childhood birthday celebrations. My parents always deferred to my grandfather’s view of how the family ‘should’ spend the day and how to celebrate. This was not AT ALL fun or enjoyable for me as a child, but my opinion about my birthday was not ‘important’ and disregarded. (Yes, I spoke up. Over and over.)

          I’m glad times have changed, and you are considering your son’s request re how he wants to celebrate. Don’t let the extended family ‘mores’ set the tone and standards controlling his enjoyment of his special day. It’s not fun to feel like everyone else’s convenience is more important than you enjoying yours on your birthday.

      2. Seriously, why wouldn’t you prioritize your son’s birthday week over this summer vacation. It doesn’t need to be on his birthday every year! OP expand your thinking!

        1. I have a September birthday and would have loved to have had a birthday on vacation. But that’s me. Every year doesn’t really have to be the same. One of my kids spend two birthdays in a row in a tent b/c it was our week at scout camp. She gets a bit of a princess birthday month to make up for it. It’s hard, but we just try to make it bigger or better where we can. Her friends are always scattered for the summer, so we may do a pedi party and a dinner and an ice cream trip to work in all the friends. But I let her decide b/c the master schedule is often bigger than just our family, especially over the summer. Other kid’s birthday is Halloween, so it will be more fun for her as an adult.

          1. I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to spend a birthday on vacation if the kid is excited about that. But sounds like this kid isn’t, so it makes sense to see if the vacation could happen some other time.

          2. You may think that but it’s not necessarily true. I’m a Christmas holidays baby and having my mom’s family staying at the house during my birthday just meant it got tacked on to Christmas/New Year’s things. Oh, it’s your birthday? Ok these Christmas cookies that we would have made anyway can be your birthday cake. Oh, it’s your birthday? That gift last week was your Christmas AND birthday gift. None of the conversations involved me & my birthday – it was long lost relatives happy to see each other and catch up. It honestly sucked. I 100% noticed the difference between my birthday vs my siblings’ summer birthdays where they had parties with their friends over and a special day just for each of them, not to mention dedicated birthday presents.

            Now I have a Thanksgiving baby, sometimes his birthday actually falls on turkey day. We prioritize his birthday above all else. He gets a special day that’s just for him, including having friends over and a party. Not relatives. Not someone else’s holiday.

    2. Oh this is us, with an early August birthday (also 7!). Could your in-laws keep a birthday box with a special set of decorations that you use every year? Something sturdy like a felt HBD banner. Is there a special activity that is perhaps a bit more expensive that you could pay for? Or would he like a break from cousins and a celebration with just mom and dad?

    3. Can you let him make some decisions that day for everyone? Like he chooses the breakfast or the water activity? Movie night with his favorite movie?
      I totally get what he’s saying. Even if its a fun time you want to feel special on your birthday. It could just be about hyping it up even if you don’t do anything too different.

    4. Can you plan a normal “friends” birthday party at home before or after you go on vacation? I would also get a birthday cake and some balloons at the lake house for the day of.

      1. QE2 observed her birthday when it suited her, so if she can do it, your mid may want this. And then something on the actual day. Two birthdays isn’t unfair when one is a bad token birthday or never at a good time. See also, all you December people.

        1. She was an adult. I think it’s crappy that this kid always has to celebrate a different day because of a lake trip that could presumably be easily scheduled a different week.

    5. Do you actually have to go to the lake the week of his birthday or are the adults preferences just being prioritized? I have an ‘inconvenient’ birthday near another holiday, growing up I was always an after thought. Even now in my 30s I vividly remember my one aunt who made my birthday special because it was so rare to be made a family priority.

      1. + a million. Kids don’t forget their birthdays not being prioritized ! I’m 59 and haven’t forgotten.

        1. Yes, same. I would plan the trip on a different week or at least celebrate the bday during the trip! No one’s feelings should get hurt if you celebrate and it could be part of the tradition that everyone pays special attention to the bday kid that day! Could the cousins get in on the fun by making bday treats or homemade gifts or decorations? It is not too late to turn things around but I would definitely start making an effort on this.

          1. OP should stop prioritizing the lake trip over her son’s birthday, especially now that he has expressed his feelings. Go to the lake another week. It doesn’t need to be on his birthday every single year. That is so thoughtless on the part of the parents.

    6. not sure why you have to go on the trip this week, but i guess you do. if you fly to your in-laws, can’t you mail decorations there and then put them in your car to drive up. or you can order decorations from amazon that come in a flat package and then assemble when he is sleeping. can there be a special breakfast or dinner of his choosing. i think if his birthday is always going to fall during the vacation, then he should get a big celebration on that day. that does not mean it will dominate the whole vacation, but for one day of the vacation it’s his birthday. can you talk to your siblings in law and maybe everyone brings him cards or something? in some ways i think it woudl be special to celebrate my niece or nephew’s bday with them every year and i’d be trying to make it special

      1. Agree, if you have to go during his birthday, why wouldn’t the entire extended family celebrate together and make it a great day for him??!

        1. I’d be kind of disappointed in the other adults for downplaying that it’s the kid’s birthday, honestly.

    7. balloons and a water balloon toss with prizes and figure out a way to get a really fun cake (even little lakes usually have an ice cream shop that can do a cake?) and streamers around his bed as a morning surprise and a crown at his place at breakfast and whatever kind of wacky pancakes he wants

    8. I don’t think you need to worry about the cousins and dominating the vacation. If they are close to his age, they are old enough to understand celebrating birthdays. They know that they will have their own celebration on their actual birthday. I would definitely bring decorations or have them delivered to the house. Find a place to get some balloons. Get or make an actual birthday cake that everyone can have a piece of, not just a simple dessert, etc.

      And like a previous poster mentioned, I would plan a party at home with his friends before or after the vacation.

    9. I have a fourth of july weekend birthday so I am used to having it as a kid in the middle of a family BBQ, etc. I never minded it as a kid. However, I always had a birthday party with friends separately. Also, my parents (and other family members) always treated it like it was fun to celebrate with the whole family. You don’t need to dominate the whole vacation with a celebration, but it’s perfectly ok to celebrate on that day! His cousins can deal. He shouldn’t be apologizing for having a birthday so they don’t feel bad. Bring his actual presents. Ask in advance for what he wants to do that day. Is there mini-golf, kayaking, etc. that’s something more special than all the other stuff you do?

    10. if you insist on always going the same week, then I think you should make a bigger deal of the birthday ON the birthday. The cousins will understand and if you have special games or whatever, it becomes a tradition of “oh we always do the Uno competition on Son’s birthday” or something to look forward to, not “oh bummer it’s all about Son today”

    11. I would offer to celebrate his birthday twice and see if he bites. Cake and small presents at the lake. Cake and big presents at home. I don’t see why there would be a problem making a big deal of the day with the cousins. Surely the cousins have birthdays too, and surely they enjoy eating cake at other people’s birthdays. We have celebrated birthdays twice when there’s been some sort of double booking and my kids are never sorry to get a second round of dessert.

    12. Ok I love this question! Making a big fuss over children’s birthdays is my jam.

      Cake and ice cream for breakfast is how we make mid-week schoolday birthdays special. We get up early to decorate the house, involve the other children in some early-morning cake decorating. It is fun and the children are always very excited about it. And they don’t actually end up eating more cake than they would later in the day.

      Piñata for the vacation house! Fill it with whatever, doesn’t have to be candy, can be cool pencils, stickers, tattoos, silly socks.

      Make a scavenger hunt with riddles taking the kiddos around the house and outside. (We do this and usually end it at the piñata.) This requires very little infrastructure and you can write the hints ahead of time if you’re familiar with the house and its contents (fireplace, bathtub, porch swing).

      Have an Olympics-themed party with the cousins one afternoon. You can do water balloon challenges, limbo, three-legged race, those old-fashioned field day games. List on a poster the activities, make a decathalon, you can make this a fun thing.

      1. Thank you all for your responses! My in laws have been going there for over 30 years and have to book it far in advance to keep their spot, so changing the date is close to impossible. We have done two parties in the past; its hard bc we live in an area where most people are out of town in August. It also creates an issue with his sister who wonders why she doesnt get two parties or a vacation birthday. Ahh! Also, not all of the adults want to spend a day celebrating a birthday, for example if the fish are biting, grandpa and a couple of people will go fishing. They will be around for cake and stuff, but are ready to move on quicker than the kids. I like the idea of a scavenger hunt and Olympics-themed party with the cousins! I totally love planning kids parties, but feel like I have one arm tied behind my back when planning them at the lake. Thanks for working this out with me!

        1. One of my kids was born at Thanksgiving, so I’ve been in your shoes many times. It’s hard for the holiday to not overshadow the birthday, and it always falls during the same week. My advice is to screw the adults and still do something special for the birthday kid. His favorite cake, along with pie. Decorations, gifts, and games for the cousins. It is completely fair to do a separate friends party at another time, though we’ve had trouble with the timing, too, because so many are away during the holidays. (We don’t do a friends party every year, for either of my kids. It’s a once-in-awhile thing, and the main birthday celebration is with family.)

          As for your daughter’s complaints, you’re being as fair as you can be under the circumstances.

        2. Tell your parents now your son feels and schedule the trip for a different week for at least next year. You don’t get a do-over on your son’s childhood. Make him the priority for once.

          1. I say this as a parent: A child’s whims do not always need to be the priority. It is perfectly possible to celebrate a child’s birthday while on vacation, and to have a party with friends at home at a different time. It’s not as if most parties are on the actual birthday anyway because they have to be on the weekend and scheduled around other obligations. There are a lot of people involved here and a change in schedule might derail the whole vacation. I would be pi$$ed as he11 if I were another kid in this family and my parents said something like, sorry, you can’t go to camp this summer because our family vacation got moved up by two weeks to avoid Cousin Timmy’s birthday. Or if I were the birthday child’s sibling and had to miss out on the lake vacation entirely because my brother wanted to have his birthday at home.

            I have set the boundary that I won’t travel for work on my kid’s birthday so that I can be there for her, but I would not expect other people to plan their schedules around it. I have a relative who refused to allow her husband to attend his own sister’s wedding because it was on their toddler’s birthday, and it just screamed entitlement.

          2. Toddlers are different than 7 year olds, and one time events like weddings are very different than a family vacation that happens every year.

            It’s entitled to refuse to attend a one time major event like a wedding or graduation because it happens to fall on your kid’s birthday. But I also think it’s crappy to *always* make your kid celebrate their birthday on an extended family vacation. As kids get older they have ideas about how they want to celebrate. They don’t get their dream celebration every year, that’s life. But to NEVER factor in what the kid wants to do is pretty heartless, imo.

        3. Okay, now I am thinking this might be an issue with the adults. Why can’t/won’t they make more of a fuss for him? It’s their grandson’s birthday! Whenever we have had an unavoidable double booking, adults who are not us always help to make the fuss for our birthday kid as part of one of the two celebrations, so it’s “hey awesome multiple parties with this cake from my grandparents’ favorite bakery” not “my parents dragged me here to hang out with people who don’t want to acknowledge my birthday.”

          1. On the other hand, it’s not unreasonable for the adults not to spend the entire day fawning over the birthday kid. I would think a big celebration at/after dinner with cake, balloons, singing, maybe some games or noisemakers, would be enough fuss. During the school year kids go to school on their birthdays, and their grandparents and uncles don’t come over and spend the whole day fussing over them.

          2. I agree there is a balance…but based on OP’s remarks and the kid’s feelings it sounds like it would help if the other adults made a bit more fuss, and that doing so would be pretty easy for them. Extended family don’t have an obligation to celebrate a kid’s birthday, but if they are going to insist on a family trip this week every year, a little more celebration could be an easy way to improve everyone’s feelings.

        4. Have a friends party for him after school starts. My birthday is in August in an area with a school start after Labor Day. Every year, we would have a family party on my actual birthday and a friend party in September once people were back from vacation.

          With regards to his sister, do the same for her. Family party in day of and a friend party on a near by weekend.

    13. I don’t agree with others that you need to stop going to the lake then, but you do need to make some effort to make the day special. It doesn’t take much – pack one small grocery bag with streamers and balloons, make special pancakes for breakfast, have a silly hat he gets to wear every year, arrange some games with the cousins (or something like sparklers), let him do something “grown-up” like drive the boat, etc. You can do this and you should. It’s not that much to ask.

      1. Also does Amazon deliver to the lake house or have delivery lockers nearby? I think at that age I adored all the dumb plastic accoutrements of birthdays – can you solve the packing problem with a big box awaiting of kazoos, super balls, streamers, confetti, balloons (the big inflatable punching ball ones were a massive hit at a party I recall)

        For fun activities – is there something your kid would enjoy that leans into the lake house thing/activities that are only possible because it’s summer: silly string, glitter body paint, water balloon fight, greased watermelon polo

        Second the scavenger hunt: my mom did that for my elementary school birthdays and it is such a good memory (with the cake hidden at the end)

    14. As somebody who had 2 birthday parties ever because we were always traveling to visit family, travel at a different time for gods sake. Let your kid have a birthday party.

  18. Help me pick out a wedding gift for a close friend. It’s a second wedding for both and very low-key. They are combining families, with 5 kids in all. Budget is around $100, and giving them cash would be deeply weird and uncomfortable, just trust me on that. Should I get something for the couple? The whole family?

    2. I like to do a restaurant gift card in that situation. Local place if you know one, otherwise OpenTable or Resy gift card.

      1. +1

        They don’t need “stuff” if this is a second marriage and they both have families.

      1. I am surprised that a couple with five kids between them who consider themselves “low key” neglected to write “no gifts please!” on the invitation. I’m divorced and 49 and I cannot fathom what i would do with the mishigas that i might get if i were to have a wedding.

        1. Ha, I agree! For that reason, I would try to find some sort of consumable. Something along the lines of a Harry and David fruit of the month box (that specific example would likely be over your budget). Maybe an assortment of specialty chocolates? Take them out for a nice dinner to celebrate?

        2. The invitation is a text thread, lol. It’s literally my family, their parents, and siblings.

      2. I was thinking a game night/movie night gift basket. The game itself, snacks, gift card to a local pizza place that would cover pizza for everyone, etc.

    5. A box of LA Burdick chocolate. Newlyweds can share with the kids, or not, as they want to.

  19. Possibly posting too late in the day, but for those of you who had small weddings – like 30 ish people – please describe how you structured the guest list & what your family of origin is like. My side of the family (my siblings and their kids/grandchildren) is 27. My husband’s is a 23 (again, just siblings/their kids/their grandchildren) & large swaths haven’t spoken to each other in decades.

    And that’s not counting groom’s family (14 or so) and friends of the happy couple!

    1. Small weddings I’ve been to have had grandparents of the couple but yeah, not aunts/uncles/cousins. I feel like they are also more likely to be child free?

    2. I don’t think most people with families that large have small weddings. When I got my married my mom’s side was 4 (one grandmother, one aunt, one uncle and one cousins) and my dad’s was 0.

      1. I hear you but my daughter (newly engaged to a guy we adore) does want a small wedding. There have been plenty of big family weddings that she has attended and she is 1000% sure she doesn’t want that.

        1. does she want a bigger party after the fact? you might do something VERY small, like just the nuclear family of the bride and groom and a few of their very best friends, and then later on have a big party for family and friends after the fact.

        2. you either go for very small – couple getting married + their parents + their siblings. no friends, no aunts/uncles. OR 27+23+14 = 64. They invite 36 friends, so their total guest list is 100 and it is unlikely everyone will come. or they invite no friends. To me a wedding under 100 people is small, but that might be different for everyone. For these 27/23 family members – so you Mother of Bride and Father of Bride must each have a bunch of siblings who have a bunch of kids who are already married and they also have kids already? Is your daughter close with any of her cousins?

          also – why does she want a small wedding? does she care more about good food? doesn’t want all the dancing, etc.?

          1. She doesn’t want a wedding of 100 people. She doesn’t like to be the center of attention that much, and her vision for her wedding has always been small and intimate.

        3. Well, if she wants a wedding with 30some people, and the extended families of you, your husband, and the groom total 64 people, it seems obvious that those extended families can’t be invited. Her immediate family comes, the groom’s immediate family comes, any grandparents still alive come, and the rest of the guests are the couple’s friends.

          1. +1. There is no other option if she only wants 30 people. Parents, siblings and living grandparents only from the families. The rest are the couple’s friends.

          3. I’m not asking for magic. I do understand how math works. I just wanted to hear how other people did it, and I do appreciate others sharing their experiences so far!

        4. My grandparents had all passed, and we both have small families. For our 25 ish person wedding, we had our parents, our immediate siblings, their spouses and kids if any, and a friend or two each. If your daughter seriously wants to elope instead, typically people do only a best friend or only parents, maybe with a larger backyard/restaurant party at another time.

          It sounds like you’re including your siblings and their families (the bride/groom’s aunts and uncles). Basically they can’t be invited if she really wants a small wedding. If she/he are close with one particular aunt/uncle or one particular cousin, they could be invited but at risk of causing bad will. You know your family best.

    3. Typically aunts, uncles, and cousins are not included in tiny weddings unless the family is naturally tiny (like each parent had 1 sibling and there are 2-3 cousins on each side). Grandparents, parents, siblings of the couple, and closest friends of the couple, yes.

    4. If you want a small wedding, you don’t invite all of your aunts, uncles, and cousins, unless you have a small family or don’t want to include many friends.

    5. I was recently not invited to a cousin’s wedding. It was his second, and I attended the first 20 years ago. None of the cousins, aunts or uncles were invited, as best as I can tell. It was fine. None of us were offended. I have no idea how big the wedding was, but if I were limiting the guests to 30, I would certainly not prioritize run-of-the-mill aunts, uncles or cousins, and definitely not the cousins’ kids and grandkids. I would include parents, grandparents, the couple’s siblings and then best friends, barring any estrangements, of course.

    6. another idea: you could have a destination wedding, with a party afterwards more locally — that way people will feel invited but you can also keep it to a smaller party.

    7. For truly small weddings I’ve been to it is usually parents of the bride/groom, grandparents (if still living), siblings of the bride/groom plus their spouse/children, and 1-2 attendents or friends. No aunts/uncles/cousins unless by small you mean ~100ppl instead of ~350ppl.

      1. But the afternoon thread goes up at 2 eastern and it normally gets quiet on the morning thread after that.

    9. We had 18 people at our wedding:
      My parents, and only sibling and his wife
      His parents and only sibling and her boyfriend
      My three best friends
      His three best friends
      Our three best mutual friends.
      One of my uncles who was in town for work and my mother insisted.
      No grandparents or other relatives (My grandparents live out of the country. His grandparents were deceased. He was not close to his uncles and aunts, and mine live on the opposite coast.)

    10. I had a tiny wedding. Parents and siblings only. There were no living grandparents. DH and I both come from large extended families and had no interest in spending an evening with a large group. We were disappointed not to have our close friends attend, but we didn’t think we could get away with that considering our respective extended families. We hosted a very nice dinner immediately after we got married and left the next morning on our honeymoon. We got married more than a decade ago, and we still think we made the right choice.
      Our families of origin are non-religious, generic white Americans. There were not any cultural or religious traditions or concerns that we needed to be aware of or observe.

    11. I assume you are the mother of the bride? Let the couple come up with a rule about what degrees of relatives they want to invite, then be consistent about its application. Going by categories (e.g., grandparents only) will give them the most defensible position when feelings get hurt.

      2. Yes, I am the mother of the bride to be! I have started preparing my own siblings that it will be smaller than their own kids’ weddings, and all of us were invited to those. One of my sisters said “ok but I’m invited, right?” And I said “probably not.” My daughter is tender hearted and doesn’t want to hurt anyone!

        1. She may have to choose between having the tiny wedding she wants, and not hurting anybody’s feelings. My advice would be “stick to what you want — they’ll get over it.”

    12. I started planning a smallish wedding with the type of numbers you include in your post, and ended up calling it off for an “elopement” with only parents, siblings, and 2 of the 7 living grandparents. One uncle was mildly offended, as he often is. The excluded grandparents were vocally relieved to have no obligation to travel. No regrets from me or DH.

      1. Regarding inconsistency between the grandparents: we scheduled at shortish notice on a holiday and included the 1 grandparent on each side who we always spent the holiday with. 3 of the other grandparents were already in failing health so therefore obviously wouldn’t travel. That left one remarried couple who couldn’t tolerate seeing the ex, nor did they really want to attend (too many obligatory weddings, not enough of which serve pizza).

    13. Generally via only inviting parents, siblings and grandparents of the bride and groom plus their close friends.

      Family dynamics will vary on exactly how you draw the line. My grandmother’s sister is unmarried, childless and spends all holidays with our family and is basically my third grandmother. So ‘great aunt’ seems distance on its title but it would have be unthinkable for me not to have her there. I don’t think DH could even name all his great aunts and uncles.

      1. I think that’s the problem. Bride has one aunt and one cousin she is very close to, and two of the grandchildren (kids of that cousin). That aunt has three bio kids, one of whom is married, and two married step kids with one grandchildren. Close cousin is a different aunt’s child! Thjs is out of the 27 on my side.

        None on her father’s side. She hasn’t met
        many of them, actually.

        Groom to be has one uncle he’s close to (included in the 14, but he has a wife and two kids)

        That’s why no aunts and uncles and no cousins gets dicey. Like your great aunt, there are different levels of relationships within the numbers.

        1. So invite the one aunt and cousin she’s close to. I can’t imagine inviting people I don’t know to my wedding just because we are “cousins”. I also can’t imagine feeling very comfortable attending a very small wedding of someone I hardly know just because we are “cousins”.

          1. I agree with this. Surely the adults in the family understand this concept. If not, my therapist would point out that others’ emotions aren’t my responsibility, especially if I’ve behaved reasonably.

            But also, let your daughter decide who she wants to invite!

        2. Unless that one aunt and cousin are her best friends, they don’t get invited. If you have a small wedding of 30 people, not everyone you are close with gets invited.

          But if she decides to do a bigger wedding, she doesn’t need to invite everyone. An easy cut – if she has not seen the person in the last ten years, they don’t get invited. If she has never meet the person, they don’t get invited

    14. I have a wedding of 28 people. Parents, siblings and their partners and children, the two living grandparents, and a few friends. No aunts, uncles or cousins. I did not want a big wedding because I’ve never enjoyed large gatherings.

    15. I think destination weddings are designed to weed out relatives who aren’t as close to the couple.

    16. I had a small wedding. As others have said, we included our own siblings (and nieces/nephews), parents, and grandparents plus relevant +1s, ended up being 14 people total. Adding in aunts/uncles/cousins/etc, would have added 25+ people to my side and 20+ to my husband’s side. We specifically did not include aunts and uncles because several of my in-laws are not on speaking terms with each other, so it was already creating havoc for my husband to try and figure it out, plus his side would have overwhelmed mine, which was more spread out and less likely to attend. Because it was so small, we were able to rent out a large house and have a whole weekend together with everyone. Only (minor) regret is not being able to collect all my friends together, but I presume at a larger wedding I wouldn’t have had much time with them anyway.

    17. Just invite the grandparents, then distract the left-out relatives by planning a big family reunion party for your birthday, your anniversary, your husband’s birthday, a parent’s 80th/90th birthday, or whatever other milestone presents itself?

    18. I had 40 at my wedding. He comes from a small family, I come from a very dispersed family that isn’t close. I literally haven’t seen most of my cousins for 20+ years. Our siblings came. No living grandparents. No cousins came. A few elderly aunts came-their 50 yr old kids didn’t.

      You have to be really intentional about invites. We had a very small venue with a firm limit. I communicated that to some friends I couldn’t invite.

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