ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: The Classic Shirt

A woman wearing a white button-front shirt and gray knit pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A perfect white shirt is worth its weight in gold, and this button-front from the sustainable fashion brand Bleusalt might be in the running. This top is made from a modal/spandex blend, so the fabric is soft with just a touch of stretch — basically, loungewear meets businesswear.

It also comes in 11 (!) other colors and has the option for a monogram, which I always have a hard time saying no to.

The top is $188 at Bleusalt and comes in sizes 1–7 (equivalent to XXS–3X).

Sales of note for 12.5

305 Comments

  1. Good morning! I am 27 F. For those who have had a dental implant, how was your experience? I had a molar extraction back in October for an infected cracked tooth (literally had no symptoms, it was found on a routine panoramic xray so it shocked me) and now it’s time to schedule implant. I know I can NOT do it.. but then worried about teeth shifting, bone loss, and future issues. The process is lengthy and expensive but thankfully HSA should cover it. Any personal experience is welcomed, especially in regards to pain, recovery, and how your implant has held up.

    1. Is this place becoming Reddit? I’ve noticed that people (or one person) have been dropping their articles lately, but now “27 F”?

      2. What’s the problem? She’s young getting an implant. And female matters because of the bone health issue. I think it’s weirder frankly to get all judgmental about someone’s word choice in the comments section of a fashion blog.

    2. I have not had one, but a dear friend of mine who is several times your age recently did and his complaints were really only logistical – it’s quite a few appointments from start to finish. He had the money, so cost wasn’t an issue, but it was expensive. Having a hole there bugged him; it was an awkward sensation even though no one could see it, so he was glad when it was finally done. He didn’t have any issues with pain or recovery, but also went to the high-end dental practice in town (When I picked him up from one appointment I was astounded… I’ve never seen a lobby like that! I’m more of a public-clinic kind of gal.)

    3. I’ve had five of them, and they’ve held up fine; that’s not even a consideration for me. Pain – no worse than any other dental procedure(s). Like every visit, the doctors were considerate of pain and took time for anesthesia to work, adding more if necessary. However, I have to say that, while I’m not especially brave or insensitive, I can’t identify with that trope (however it goes) about a root canal being the worst pain you can experience, because for me it’s not. Again — you’re well anesthetized! The only annoyance might be is that, while they’re waiting for your drug to take effect, they’re probably seeing to another patient, so you may be sitting in the chair with a bright light in your eyes for a while.

      The only recovery aspect would be after the initial extraction. I’ve been sent home to bed with an icepack, and I’ve gone back to the office with an icepack. They will tell you what to avoid eating and for how long, which I generally followed, but I also was guided by common sense, comfort and using the other side of my mouth. I may sound overly cavalier, but I was meticulous about the medical-grade mouthwash and any antibiotics (not the painkillers, though; I may have taken one at the most.)

      It IS a lengthy process, but well spaced out. It’s not akin to, say, pregnancy visits where you’re going all the time at the end. It’s a visit for extraction, a check-up, then nothing for six-nine months. Then a fitting for a crown, then the placing of the crown (as I recall.)

      If insurance is covering it — you’ve got it made.

      1. How well the anesthesia works varies person-to-person. I want the first 35 years of my life just thinking that dental cleanings were supposed to be really painful, because I’ve been to seven different dentists in that time and they all hurt. It wasn’t until I tried my current dentist and they made sure to keep giving me anesthesia that I learned that dental cleaning aren’t suppose to be extremely painful (and that I need a LOT more anesthesia than the average person)

        2. I am curious. Do you think that, in general, beyond just dentistry, your pain threshold is lower than average?

          1. Interestingly, no. In other context, I seem to have a higher pain threshold than normal

    4. I have had 4 implants; two had to be replaced after 10 and 12 years. The cost is really significant to me, and the pain of the process is . . . not nothing. FWIW, my dentist is very good, teaches others how to do this, and well-regarded in the dental community. If it were the back tooth, having experienced what I have, I would forgo the implant and just get a hard retainer to prevent shifting and wear that religiously at night.

    6. I’ve unfortunately had several implants. What I can say is its probably far less invasive than you are imagining. Basically they have to create a post (a small, less than a centimeter circular pillar) where the root of the tooth would be. Over this, usually at a follow-up appointment, they will place a fake tooth (implant) over the post. The implant will be made to measure for your mouth and bite. There is basically no pain to either of the procedures – I personally have not even needed a tylenol afterward when the numbing agent wears off. Sometimes (only one of my several) there is a feeling of pressure after the implant is installed (mine was because the implant was pushed very slighyly into the gums, so my gums had to adjust). Good luck!

    7. I’m in the middle of doing an implant process, and it’s seriously not that bad! I also have lots of friends with implants, and they all love them. Some have had their implants for decades. So far, I have had the extraction and grafting process and am about to go in a month to get the actual implant. According to the dentist, the grafting is the worst surgery, and I found the worst part of it was just feeling the extraction.

    8. Haha after looking at the button front shirt above, I thought for sure you were giving your bra size and complaining the shirt would gap. Anyway, I digress…

      I had an implant 10-12 years ago and although the process wasn’t a barrel of laughs, it wasn’t as bad as I expected and I haven’t have one bit of trouble with it since. Basically it’s just like having my tooth back. I’d go ahead if I were you.

    9. Cracked tooth, got it extracted and the implant in at the same time. There were no complications. GA.
      Then I was measured for the crown and it was in several weeks later.

  2. For the woman wanting to set up a kid space during her party:

    Kids <1 will be attached to their parents. Don’t worry about them.
    Kids 1-4 will need parents around at all times. Set up a little corner of whatever room the adults will be in with snacks and anything you can offer in terms of entertainment (Don’t buy anything. I’m talking a couple of cardboard boxes and towels to make a fort, maybe crayons and paper if you want to go that route). The key here is snacks- goldfish, apple sauce in pouches, pirate booty, cheese sticks, that sort of thing. Nothing you can’t sweep up.

    Kids 4+ (Grade school age and any 4 year old with older sibs) will be good with a tv. Stick them in a bedroom (yours is fine). These kids will not climb bookshelves or drink your shampoo. Pick a movie ahead of time, I vote for Encanto or Sing- and have it on. Ideally you would allow popcorn or some other snack in there. Most of these kids will have screens with them if they come at all but a separate space is nice.

    Unless you are doing something like hiring a sitter to entertain the kids (you don’t need to do this!) they will either be with their parents or zoning out on screens.

    1. That was me, thanks so much this is helpful. I love the little fort idea, BF would have a blast setting that up. I wouldn’t have thought of the snacks. We’ll have kid friendly meal options like chicken nuggets and pizza bites but we hadn’t planned for snacks, so thanks! I can also get a coloring book and crayons (guessing their parents don’t want them using my swear word adult coloring books! And maybe colored pencils aren’t great for littles).

      For the TV – we have Disney+, is there a channel or series or can we set up a few movies to autoplay for a few hours?

      2. For your last question, it kind of depends on the bell curve of the age of kids. FWIW my 6 yo is very sensitive to movies they deem “scary” and their definition of what is too scary would probably surprise some. Encanto was one, I don’t even remember why. The Ice Age franchise has always been an easy win for us. But if the kids are closer to the 8/10/12 range the answer would be different.
        (To be clear, if we came to your party, there was a movie on clearly meant for kids, and my kid was the odd one that deemed it “too scary” we would not in any way be annoyed or hold that against anyone or whatever – we would 100% know that was on us and figure it out on our own).

      3. Don’t buy a coloring book. It’s very nice of you but really…printer paper and some coloring stuff is fine! let them color on your moving boxes!

        if you have blue painter’s tape, that’s fun too. my kids (4,6,9) made a massive fort out of boxes and sheets this weekend.

        But my biggest suggestion is just to pick *a* movie and have it on. As others said, if they hate it, they will complain. If you don’t have it going already they will all fight over The Right Movie.

        I personally love Bluey. My 9 year old and i watch it and laugh to tears but YMMV as it’s clearly a show for younger kids.

    2. My two cents as a parent is that it is really okay to invite me over to a kids free party! “We are still unpacking so we can’t host kids” is 100% fine.

      1. Agreed.
        We might not be able to make it, and that’s fine too. But also, it might motivate me to get a sitter and enjoy it more – whereas alternatively I would never spend the money on a sitter for the party if I knew there was going to be everyone else’s kids there anyway.
        If you go this route, I would suggest having it in the evening ideally (as opposed to afternoon). I don’t think the timing was ever mentioned in the OP post. If the party ends up including kids but is during nap time or much past 7 pm that might take care of the kid issue anyway, depending on where most of them are in the age range.

        1. It’s open house style starting after dark, I imagine most people will show up around 7 or 8. We have one friend who’s really struggling with her special needs toddler and can’t leave the kid with a sitter, and she really wants to come (and we want her!). I don’t want to tell everyone else that it’s kid free and then she shows up with her kid, and then I feel like I should explain it’s a special situation, but it’s not my place to talk about someone else’s struggles, and it basically creates an uncomfortable situation. Maybe a handful of our friends have children but there may be some grumbling if we allow some kids but not others. Our friends have met us, they know we don’t interact with kids including their kids, I can’t imagine they’re expecting that we’ll dedicate an entire room of our tiny house to kids.

          I think I’ll tell people, we’re not excluding kids but please understand that we’re still moving in and we don’t have a designated space for kids at all, we’re looking forward to hosting better events for kids when the weather is nice. Does that come off as rude?

          2. Oh yeah, if this is a 7 or 8pm party you won’t get any super young kids. I wouldn’t bring any of mine and they are all in elem. I’d get a sitter.
            I would focus on the special needs toddler- ask Mom what she needs. Probably to be in bed by 7pm, so maybe set up an area where she can sleep.

          4. Sounds great. And I say that as the mom who brought her special needs toddler to things before and the mom who can now hire babysitters to enjoy an evening at a friends house.

          5. At 7 or 8 pm start time you will not get any little kids, I would think. That’s even too late for my elementary school aged kids to start a night somewhere. And not because we are frigid about bedtime (we used to be), but they would be tired and melty down disasters at that point. Does your friend with the toddler know the timing? I would be really surprised if that timing even worked for her, but obviously I don’t know her situation. It’s nice of you to think of her though.

          6. Not rude at all! FWIW, I will be surprised if you get any children at a party starting at 7 or 8pm.

          7. Also, I know you mentioned kids up to 14 in your original post: any of the kids older than 12 (?) I would say would likely opt to just stay home (no sitter required).

    4. It’s literally called the Classic shirt, so I don’t think they’re going for modern!

      1. About eight years ago now I built my fancy (to me) professional wardrobe on the back of those polyester Kohl’s blouses. They held up a long time!

      2. I think the point of sustainable brands is that it shouldn’t cost $15. You’re talking about exploitative labor practices and poor environmental practices at that price point.

        2. Agree, but at the same time sustainable brands don’t have to mean the items are ugly or cheap looking. This might have paid fair wages and have a smaller impact on the environment, but it looks like something I would have bought at a knock-off mall kiosk as a teenager.

          1. I was responding to the $15 comment. I agree sustainable brands could do better in terms of style. I’ve seen good sweaters, though!

            I believe Eileen Fisher is considered a sustainable brand, and they do have some pretty styles in amongst the boxy pajama looks. I have a lot of EF in my closet, bought new and bought second hand.

        4. If you think this shirt costs $188 because the company’s labor practices are so wonderful, I’d like to sell you some beachfront in Kansas.

    6. this looks sooooo cheap and them styling it with athletic gray leggings is aa CHOICE! I am horrified all around.

  4. Crowd sourcing morning routines, or things to do in the morning when if you are looking to cut out screentime but really need time to ease yourself into being a functioning person? I really need 45 minutes to an hour between waking up and getting my day started (alarm is at 6 am, if I commute to the office I leave around 715 to be in around 8am, it takes me 15-20 minutes to get ready and out the door). Putting on the news feels too heavy, and doing a physical activity just after waking up feels soul crushing to me.

    On advisement of my therapist this past year I broke the habit of spending this morning time in bed with my coffee but have fallen into spending this time on my laptop or phone on the couch instead (scrolling here, or craft and hobby related subreddits). My eye doctor suggested less screen time to try an prevent my dry eyes from getting any worse.

    Both my parents are up and at em people. My dad wants to have a full conversation about your plans for the day as soon as he see’s you vertical, in his outside voice. My mom is a work out every morning followed by reading the bible or heavy economics and history tomes.

    1. Sitting in bed with coffee and snuggling my dog in the morning is one of my greatest pleasures. I’d fire a therapist who said not to do this. My morning routine is filled with things like this that I enjoy. The rest of my day belongs to others but not the morning.

      1. It was for sleep hygiene reasons – I started a few years ago with that same coffee in bed in the morning pleasure but it took a toll and became an all the time thing. I need my bed to be for gardening and sleeping (exceptions for the occasional sick day or refuge when I need to just cry it out, that happens 1-2x a year).

        I like my mornings for myself but it just can’t happen in bed.

          1. Because of course you are better able to judge the situation than the OP and her therapist are.

        2. This has also made a big difference for me – literally just sleeping and “gardening”. Absolutely anything else, including reading books or scrolling on my phone or drinking coffee happens in my comfy armchair. I even got a soft blanket for my couch so that I can lie down there if I want to – but absolutely not in bed.

          1. +1 for getting/using a super comfy chair and a warm/electric blanket. I get ready, make a coffee, and settle in for a quick read in the comfy chair all wrapped up with coffee next to me. It’s such a grounding start to the day.

            If you have kids, still worth doing that but I’ve found that but earlier (and adjusting bedtime earlier).

            Reviewing the days priorities is something I do as a threshold ritual. Super energising and tends to help prevent fires later.

        3. Then do the same thing in a different room. Seriously it sounds so lovely, I wish I could consistently get to bed early enough to give me that kind of time in the morning.

    2. Huh, what was wrong with your coffee in bed routine?

      My morning routine is sitting in my bed for about 30 minutes, happily drinking my coffee, meditating for 10 minutes, then journaling and reading for pleasure on my kindle. Sometimes I’ll do some gentle yoga/stretching after that. It’s glorious.

      1. posted above but sleep hygiene reasons makes morning coffee in bed a no go. The transition to break the bed habit was tragic at first but my sleep has definitely improved, I fall asleep faster and wake up for shorter amounts of time during the night now.

        1. Ah. Bummer, but totally understandable. Definitely recommend shifting the habit to the couch or comfy chair with a soft blanket if you found it enjoyable! I also sometimes take it outside to my patio, which is really nice.

    3. What about journaling or reading a hard copy book?
      My morning is on the leisurely side (up at 6:30, out the door at 8:45 with two kids), but I wake up, read some of my book, journal (i write a few lines in my five year journal, then I time track and reflect on the day before, then I write down a couple to dos for the day), then get breakfast, pack lunch and prep dinner, then 15 minutes of yoga, get dressed and off I go. I have a rule of no screens until 7:00am.

    6. A skin care routine of some type could be a nice transition?
      I get fully ready and then sit down on a chair in the living room with a coffee and book on ipad / real book / crossword puzzle.

    7. My morning routine is typically open the windows for some fresh air and wake up with coffee in bed, sometimes with a magazine or book, sometimes just looking out the window. Once I’m half awake, I’ll get up, stretch a bit, and put on a podcast. I listen to the podcast while I’m organizing myself – maybe thats getting set up to work from home or getting ready for the office. The fresh air is what’s really key for me.

    8. I sit on the couch and write in a Goals journal every morning – it has prompts for gratitude, goals, reflection, etc. And have coffee. Other than that, I read a Kindle book, but sometimes I cheat and read a book in my Kindle app that still feels “scrolly” like a book of home organization tips that has a series of bite-size one or two page spreads. You could also get paper magazines from the library and flip through them – it sounds like maybe you’re looking for that mindless, wake-up, low-stakes stimulation.

    9. I get up at 5:15, make coffee, and read a physical Wall Street Journal. No screen time. By 6 I feel awake and am ready to work out, shower/breakfast at 7, ready for my day at 7:30. Would getting a physical subscription to a newspaper you want to read help?

    11. I used to drink coffee in bed but then had an unfortunate spill – so now I get up, wrap myself in a robe, get my coffee, and go sit in a recliner to drink it. Part of the time I revel in the silence, sometimes I listen to a short podcast on gratitude. I find that my mental well-being is better if I take some time to reflect on my life and my intentions before starting the day. Every now and then I have a short phone call with my sister who lives in a different time zone, but not regularly enough that I can count on it to motivate me out of bed.

    13. I am the same re the bed for sleep hygiene reasons – $ex and sleep only.

      My ease into the day routine is to turn on the local news, drink coffee, and play NYT word games. This does not help you with the screen time issue, but if you are into crosswords, you can get hard copy books and do it that way instead. I miss having the WaPo daily, but distribution is inconsistent and expensive and late where I live so I do it all on my phone now.

    14. I don’t understand the problem of morning time in bed with coffee. If the issue is that light is required for optimal circadian rhythms, open a window / use a sunlamp. I don’t drink coffee in bed because I would spill it, but drinking coffee while soaking up the sun and reading the book is my morning routine and I don’t see the issue.

      1. I now see the comments about reserving bed for sleep; I guess it’s a good thing I move to the sofa!

    15. I get up at 6 and leave for the gym at 7. From 6-7 I do the following:
      – get out of bed and grab a cup of coffee
      – sit on my couch with a SAD lamp and take out my iPad (which to me feels different than my phone) to do my Duolingo and Elevate apps and then read my personal book in the Kindle app. This takes me to 6:15.
      – at 6:15 I transition to one of a few activities: reading for graduate school, continue pleasure reading, or knitting.
      – at 6:40 turn on Up First and get ready: a few minutes of mild stretching or yoga, make my bed, change into gym clothes, brush teeth, wash face, skincare and pack my work bag (work clothes, work stuff, breakfast and lunch). I try to be out the door by the time Up First is over.

      I try to not look at my work phone or the news until I get to my desk at 9.

    16. I sit on the couch with coffee and a book every morning and it’s the best! Pick out a fun book so you look forward to it.

    17. Drink coffee in the bathtub
      Read a physical newspaper or magazine
      Jigsaw puzzle or easy craft (like coloring)
      Fold laundry or empty dishwasher while listening to podcast or audio book

    18. Depending on what I have going on I either 1) work on a pretty puzzle, 2) read (fiction), 3) do the cross word/sudoku/whatever in yesterdays paper

    19. Do you have a cozy couch with a warm throw you can take your coffee to? I’d just reserve that as your second comfy space, particularly for mornings. I’d make it a beautiful space with everything you might need at your fingertips.

      My personal practice is to make tea, ice water, toast, and some fruit (right now I love Cara Cara oranges) and take it to my dining room, where I work a couple of puzzles before getting on with my day.

      I agree that keeping the bed reserved for sleep and s3x is the standard sleep hygiene recommendation, as well as limiting screen time x hours/minutes before bed time. I violate all of these regularly, but I recognize that they’re best practices.

    20. Given the no-bed-except-sleep, I’d get a pre-programmed coffee maker or a really fast keurig set up. Get the fuzziest robe you can find and if you don’t wear pajamas, get pajama pants or yoga pants and – this is important – leave the robe and pants and slippers by your bed. I hate being cold in the morning, hate looking for things in a cold house, half-asleep; so this works for me to have everything ready. Put on the robe and walk to kitchen to get the premade coffee. (For me it’s tea, so I have to wait for the kettle.) Wrap up in fuzzy blanket in a cozy chair or sofa, looking out the window if possible. This way you’re not horizontal but still cozy. Read a book or a magazine, write in a journal, meditate with/without an app and set intentions for the day – or just relax looking at the trees or whatever. I like decorating or fashion magazines for this as I can look at pretty pictures so it’s less like work than reading a book, even though reading is my fav thing. If you have a balcony or porch, sit out there in the good weather months.

    21. Coffee half-lying on the couch with a crossword, sudoko or podcast works well for me.

    22. No advice but laughed out loud at your description of your dad!
      A little guiltily, because my husband complains I do exactly this (literally ask about his plans for the day, or discuss mine, as he stumbles into the kitchen to get his coffee mug). He told me not to do this in the bedroom so I figure the kitchen is fair game.

  5. Hit me up with some ideas for non-dress cute outfits for cocktail/ party attire. Think: niece’s bat mitzvah where how I look doesn’t matter, work party on a Saturday night… I was looking at sequin jogger pants with a simple black shell. Other ideas?

    1. Fun pants! Check out Anthropologie, Jcrew, and Boden. You should be able to find some leftover holiday pants – this year I saw lots of velvets, plaids, sequins(!!), etc. I like pairing them with heels and a dressy sweater/blouse/shell depending on the weather.

    2. Love the idea of sequin joggers. I’ve been tempted by a faux-leather pair, but they don’t read as formal/fancy to me.
      How do you feel about jumpsuits? I find them really easy to dress up/down depending on the occasion.

      1. Love that top! I bought it in December to make a holiday party outfit. The sleeve seams are a little itchy (itchy thread, I suppose), but I covered them with velvet ribbon to make it more comfortable.

    5. I would look for a v-neck, black crepe jumpsuit. Mix with assorted belts like silk obi, sequined, metal, and a few toppers-plain and sparkly cardi in black or colors, thin cashmere wrap. Shoes can range from suede flats to jeweled, heeled sandals. You likely have many “mixing” pieces in your wardrobe already. It works for so many occasions.

    6. If I were your niece, I’d be pretty bummed that you think it doesn’t matter how you look for my bat mitzvah…

      1. Don’t be obtuse. She means that the attention won’t be focused on her. As the imaginary niece (what even?), there’s no need to be bummed.

  6. HIVE help please

    I’m hating my job and toxic boss but cannot quit without another role.

    please help me with tips to make it through the next few months. I literally feel flogged and nearly cry daily and I’m not an easy crier.

    I appreciate your help.

    thank you.

    1. When I was in this position, in addition to job hunting, which it sounds like you’re doing, I started putting what money I could toward an F-U fund so I could bail if this ever happens again. I also started taking my personal things out of my office a tiny bit at a time such that no one noticed, so when it was time to jump ship I was READY.

    2. Can you apply for FMLA based on mental health status?

      Can you transfer internally?

      Any chance that this is harassment based on a protected class? Does your boss treat men the same way?

    3. Try to set 1 or 2 hours aside every day to get apps out. It’s hard when you’re busy and miserable but prioritizing yourself will feel good and it’s a daily reminder that this will all be temporary. Don’t quit. Give yourself permission to care less instead.

    4. Do the bare minimum. Take all your time off. Get a mantra and just repeat them in your mind.

      Try and limit your one on one time with toxic boss – loop in other coworkers when possible. Know that it’s temporary.

    5. Remember that you are not your job. Or whatever your horrid boss is saying about you or making you believe about yourself. And I’m sorry; this sounds like a soul-crushing situation.

    7. There’s the classic “pretend you are a journalist/time-traveling historian/alien anthropologist” technique – try to think of yourself as a dispassionate, uninvolved observer of this organization’s fascinatingly weird and disfunctional behavior

    8. Also, if you feel comfortable, post your role (generic, eg, “third year associate” or “accountant”) and general location here; the Hive may be able to point you to roles that are open.

  7. Any of my fellow Atlantans been to the opera and can advise on general dress code? Going this weekend and was planning to wear a cocktail dress but it’s going to be chilly so I’m wondering if I can get by with sweater dress and boots.
    Husband is planning for shirt without a tie and trousers.

    1. For things that aren’t social with others, as long as you won’t get kicked out I think you can wear whatever you want without thinking twice about it.

    2. Atlantan here. I haven’t been to the opera, but I went to the symphony and while I dressed up (dress + heels), people were in all sorts of things—anything from dressy-bordering-on-cocktail to jeans.

      I would think a sweater dress, boots and dressy/fun accessories would be perfect.

    3. +1, the opera ain’t what it used to be. Not in Atlanta specifically, but in another major city, I definitely saw jeans.

      1. +1 to this. I haven’t been to the one in Atlanta, but I have been to other large cities and there are some people who really dress up. Most people are in “business casual” level of dress. And then there’s a decent contingent of people like me who go in jeans and a nice top. I go because I love opera, and I want to be comfy for the 3-4 hours I’m sitting there. Honestly, you’ll fit in pretty much regardless of what you wear as long as it’s nicer than shorts and a tee.

    4. I have been. As everyone has said, you will find a broad range of attire there. And I suspect many will have the same idea as you to dress for the weather. That was certainly true at holiday events I attended here when the temperatures plummeted.

    5. “Husband is planning for shirt without a tie and trousers.”

      I think skipping the tie is okay, but I’d advise him to go ahead and wear the trousers if it’s going to be chilly. ;)

    6. I don’t go to the opera but I go to the ballet a lot. Nice jeans, sweater dresses, slacks are all commonly worn by the audience.

    7. It’s been a while since I went to the ATL opera, but a sweater dress would be fine. Have fun.

    8. Skip the perfume, just in case you were thinking of wearing it.
      Some people dress up by adding lipstick, sparkly earrings and perfume but perfume gives me an awful headache so I’d politely request everyone skip it!

  8. I’m a senior associate who is not going to make partner, though I can stick around and maybe go the Counsel route. I set figuring out what i want next as the task for January and…it turns out quicksand is a bigger adult problem than the chain last week would have led you to believe.

    So, advice on:
    1) Moving past these feelings of failure. Before I wasn’t sure in my heart (though I tried not to share that) that I even wanted partner. Junior, non-equity parter looks kinda miserable, but now that it won’t happen, I feel terrible.
    2) Figuring out the right step for me. How did you do it? Books I should read? Career coach recs?
    3) Financial steps to take while still making the big salary before it shrinks substantially? My only debt is my mortgage, I’ve already frozen eggs, retirement savings are good, but not amazing.

    1. The feelings of failure are hard, and they’re going to stick with you for a while. I would encourage you to start thinking that you never wanted to be a partner and make that the story you tell yourself and the outside world. Fake it till you make it.

      You shouldn’t necessarily assume you’re going to make a substantially smaller salary. If you want to stay in private practice (and maybe you don’t), there are likely other firms that would welcome a person with your experience and make you counsel – or even partner. If you go this route, I would recommend trying to find a counsel route at another firm versus taking that position at your current firm – I think the feelings of being “second best” will hang over you more at your current firm than if you got a fresh start.

    2. Lots of people don’t make partner for a lot of reasons, and it can be an absolutely crummy deal. Not sure that will cure your first issue but maybe it will help. On the next steps, if reading a book sorted things out, well we’d all be fine. A book is not the answer, networking is. You have a lot of options – staff attorney at another big firm, partner track should you want it elsewhere, in-house, government, etc. I’d put the books down and refresh your resume and read what’s open on LinkedIn. Set broad search parameters and see what might interest you. There’s lots out there.

      1. This. I recently moved in-house for several reasons– one of which was that I did not see a path to partnership that I thought seemed likely and I wasn’t happy with what my career looked like as a non-partner at my firm. Taking the in-house job has been helpful in terms of reframing the move to me. People congratulated me on my move, and there is upward mobility at my company, which I would not have had if I’d stayed as a non-partner at my firm.

        Also, while I really don’t think I would have been happy if I’d stayed to make partner, I have had the same feelings of guilt/failure. Something that has helped me has been talking with others at the firm about my career path, etc. Several associates who left at the same time I did have talked candidly with me about their experiences, and I have realized that a lot of my issues/problems at my firm were definitely not my fault.

    4. Even if you didn’t want partner, it stinks to have someone else make that decision for you. Decisions feel better when you make them for yourself, I applaud you for working on the next steps to take control of your career.

      Use this as your period of Discernment. What are you best at? What are you passionate about? What kind of work environment is most appealing to you? What do you detest, and what could you endure as a necessary evil in your work? What kind of work-life balance would match the kind of life you want to live? Talk to people – when I changed careers I talked to tons of people and made clear that I was going through Discernment. What are the roles that would leverage your legal skills, and what do they think are the best parts of them? Talk to people in-house, in government, in policy roles, etc. The last time you probably had this much freedom is (maybe) when you chose your major in college – it’s a gift to take control of your own narrative here. Good luck and keep us posted!

    5. re #1 – it’s a pyramid scheme. By definition not every qualified person can make it toward the top of the pyramid. Not sure that helps but maybe think of it as just not becoming a top avon lady, or not selling enough lularoe to be invited to the convention? Most people have to not make it for the economics to shake out as intended.

      1. This is a beautiful (and accurate) analogy. Bonus points for the fact that it would absolutely kill a BigLawPartner to be compared to Lularoe.

      2. And even the BigLaw people often don’t think they have reached the top. Many leave to become judges (massive pay cut), work high up in the federal government, or do things like become Solicitor General.

    6. For books, read Working Identity.

      Otherwise, call every lawyer you know who has ever switched jobs to chat for 15 minutes about why they left the first job, and what they like/don’t like in the new job, and what they miss in the old job.

      Learning more about what’s out there will help you make a more informed decision.

      Good luck!

    7. I made partner and left a year+ later. Other senior associates did not make partner, but stayed for years more. In retrospect, I did not focus enough on the finances because I was too focused on the job/was I a big partner/what kind of matters was I working on etc.

      Re: finances:
      * Think about how many years you would need to stay as counsel so that you could put everything extra (i.e., the amount you are making that you won’t make at a non-firm job) into a brokerage account and invest it until retirement. (Depends on your age and the amount you already have saved etc., but I wish someone had told me to think about this at all.)
      * Consider a HELOC before leaving firm life so that you have it for emergencies (in case you don’t qualify based on your next salary).

      Finally, I will say that I love my post-firm job and although it took years for that senior partner’s derisive tone of voice when he spoke about people who left our firm “for lifestyle reasons,” I now think of my time there as a part of my work history (as opposed to “the job I was meant to have forever and that defined me and now I don’t have”).

    8. I am not an attorney so I haven’t been in your particular shoes. However, I have my own “feelings of failure” story to share.

      After 30 years of increasing responsibility and being considered a “rising star” (officially, at my company, through an executive mentorship program) I was suddenly laid off one level below the C suite. I interviewed for a couple of C suite jobs and didn’t get them.

      I found both of those things soul-crushing for a while. However, I remind myself that I have to give myself a break, which is easier said than done. It sounds so horrible even to type that out, but the truth is, the company I was working for was struggling financially and cut out a layer of management, so it wasn’t personal, and not getting those jobs had a lot to do with geography and being at the beginning of the pandemic. I also don’t think I would have been all that happy at those jobs.

      I’m now doing something completely different, I’m making a bit less money, but most days I’m enjoying myself, something I couldn’t have said about my corporate life from 2012-2020. I now often think that the layoff was the best thing that ever happened to me.

      I hope that a year or two from now you feel the same, OP!

      1. Can I ask what you do that is completely different?
        Not the OP, but worried that I am heading in a similar direction to you (not making it to the top).

    9. I left a firm as a senior associate when partnership was not on the horizon (at least for awhile).
      Keep in mind that the only people who see big law partnership as the end all be all goal are those working in BigLaw. Even most lawyers outside of big firms recognize the sacrifices you have to make to get there and many would be unwilling to make them. I worried about being perceived as a washout when I left to go in-house and literally no one else seems to feel that way (and hey I’m the one who reviews bills of BigLaw lawyers now so….)

  9. I’ve found that I eat less overall if I eat more substantive meals. What are some breakfast ideas that will keep me full for a while but aren’t too sweet or carb heavy?

    1. For me personally, I need some fat in my breakfast to make me feel full. Full fat Greek yogurt is my go to.

      1. Same but with berries and grapenuts for me (and I love the Trade Joe’s plain greek yogurt – full fat)

    2. I make a berry oatmeal bake (has very little sugar added) and eat a piece each morning with plain greek yogurt. Alternatively, plain oatmeal, plain greek yogurt, diced apples topped with cinnamon and 1T maple syrup. Other ideas are avocado toast with eggs and side of ham/breakfast sausage/turkey burger.

      Generally I like to aim for at least 25, if not closer to 30/40 grams of protein at breakfast (which I find keeps me full longer).

    4. Apple with nut butter, single serve unsweetened oatmeal packet with berries and nuts, piece of toast with a fried egg and avocado or hummus

    5. This is something my dietician and I have worked on!

      90% of the weeks I meal prep chia pudding (which I top with berries and sliced almonds) or a veggie and cheese quiche.

      The est of the time I do a breakfast sandwich or a hearty toast: whole wheat toast with peanut butter, fruit, and chia seeds

      1. These sound good. Today I had a breakfast sandwich and I’m not at all hungry at 1pm – usually I can barely make it to 12.

    6. I find smoothies to be great for this. I usually do a scoop of protein powder, a serving of greens (spinach, kale, whatever), 1/2 a banana and some frozen berries. Substantial and not a complete carb bomb so I feel full and energized all morning without any crash that I get from a carb heavy breakfast. Also gets in a serving of veggies to start the day and has lots of fiber

    7. Breakfast burrito with low carb tortilla wrap. I like them just as much as ‘regular’ tortilla wraps, I’m not low carb. 2 eggs, 1 sausage (microwaved from frozen), any veggies I have / feel like (spinach, thinly sliced onion, tomatoes), a sprinkling of goat cheese, herbs of choice (chives, green onion, or cilantro), and any flavorful toppings – salsa of the week, sriracha/hot sauce, sour cream). Runs between 350-450 calories, depending on how heavy your toppings are and what kind of sausage.

      It’s 5-10 minutes prep every morning for a hot, filling breakfast.

    8. Scrambled eggs (1 whole, 1 white) on top of canned black beans heated in microwave, with salsa on top. Plus a banana with almond butter.

    9. Of the many smoothies I’ve made, I go back to one particular smoothie because it holds me nicely until lunch. It is: on cup of cooled coffee, one banana’s worth of frozen banana pieces, vanilla protein powder, milk of choice, and a small handful of ice. Dairy and I do not get along so my milk and protein powder are vegan. Orgain brand protein powder blends nicely without leaving grit or chalkiness. If caloric load isn’t hugely important you can use chocolate milk of choice and chocolate protein powder and maybe a spoonful of peanut butter. That one is pretty sweet though.

    10. Earl Grey tea with sugar, a full glass of ice water, one slice of sourdough toast with kerrygold butter, and one over medium egg. A piece of fruit if I have some, otherwise a little jam on half the bread (the egg is on the other half)

      This keeps me going well past noon. I have the whole routine of making it down to under 5 minutes, though I admit I take a lot longer than that eating it. I am not a morning person and this really helps.

    11. I love to eat a cup or two of greens plus two eggs on top. Add bacon, ham, veggie sausage, or Canadian bacon if you want. I like certain canned greens (live in the Sourth but not Southern), which makes this easier on the fly as I just keep them around, but you can make a bunch of sauteed greens at once and then just heat them up when making the eggs. I used to have a microwave egg poacher that worked well and made this all incredibly quick. No microwave now.

    12. I eat a lot of soup for breakfast. A veggie soup with cannelli beans is a great start to the day

  11. This may be the silliest question I’ve ever posted here – has anyone gone from being “no manicure” to “gel all the time”? How did you make this decision and justify the expense?

    I use to never have nice nails and they constantly looked dirty due to real gardening, DIY projects, etc., especially because I have deep nail beds and transparent nails. I often got nail chips and kept them very very short. Then before the holidays, for fun, I got a gel mani and all of a sudden my hands were so pretty. I let me nails grow and instead of just getting the polish off, I got another gel mani. They still look so good. I’m really struggling to decide whether to keep this up for a while, with the main reason not to being “wasting” money and this is just not what I do.

    But then I started looking around and lots of people seem to have done nails, so maybe it’s not so out of the norm? Not sure what the question is, just feeling conflicted.

    1. I did exactly that, but then too many consecutive rounds of gel had my nails in really bad shape and now I’m back to nails looking terrible.

    2. Well, I was never a no mani person but I am a gel all the time person. I like how my hands look, I can afford it and so I do it. I go every 2-3 weeks and enjoy my time in the salon too n

    3. Tons of women get their nails done regularly! It’s regular maintenance like hair cuts. If you want to do it, do it. It’s not something to stress over. I stopped because it was destroying my nails though.

    4. I didn’t make this transition, but now I usually paint my nails at home and fix chips as needed. I do need to give my nails a breather every so often (which is where I’m at right now). I like the essie insta dry ones

    5. FWIW, I never tried gel because I heard that after a while your natural nails get really brittle and thin, so I didn’t want to go that route. I do nail polish stickers – Color Street – and yes they are a MLM but I just bought a bunch from my friend who was selling them and now I have a ton and won’t need to buy any more for years. Nails look as good as Dazzle Dry (my previous go-to) and last until they grow out. I do put on a regular base coat bc otherwise they’re too hard to remove IMO.

      1. My sister introduced me to the nail polish stickers this summer. I’m absolutely hooked! Color Street are the “Cadillac”, but I get the no-MLM thought, plus they’re too much $$ for on the reg. I’ve also had great results with NailsMailed, Lily & Fox, and even some random Amazon holiday sticker sets (read the reviews). Wash your hands with dish soap first, push back cuticles, and the Cutex Ultra is GREAT for removing them (especially the glitter ones). Topcoat after, and every few days, is optional but helps with lifespan. If you buy a ton, keep them in the freezer and let them warm to RT before applying.

    6. I would do this but it’s just so bad for your nails. My own nails need time to recover after gel manis.

    7. A lot of people get gel regularly. It’s become even more common the past few years. If you like it then you do you.

      I personally hate everything about gel or fake nails or nail salons generally. I resent the time suck. They always seem to be running late even when you make an appointment. I hate having one more appointment on the calendar that I have to find time for. I hate the smell of nail salons. I hate the sound of the grindy thingy, like nails on a chalkboard. I find it stressful and often painful to get my nails done, my fingers often hurt for days after getting gel, fake nails are even worse. And before anyone says oh you got it done at the wrong place – no I’ve unfortunately and resentfully been coerced into getting my nails done at dozens of extremely high end places, I despise them all almost equally (the ones that give me wine and keep it coming are slightly less horrible). I hate how my natural nails look after the gel comes off. I hate the clunky feel of unnatural nails. I feel like I look like a cat that’s trying to get tape off its paws. I’d rather wear a full corset every day, I’d rather wear a bra at home, that’s how uncomfortable gel nails feel to me. I despise everything about it and it is super hard for me to fathom why anyone would inflict this on themselves. I wish this trend would die so my neat short nails didn’t look so out of place. But again you do you.

    8. If it makes you happy, you have the time and money to spend on it go for it! Gels absolutely ruined my nail beds but that’s really only a problem if you aren’t keeping gel on frequently.
      if you’re not in love with the cost/time committment I’d look into a good glass file, a buffer, and something idiot proof on top – I like the Dior Nail glow as I can’t paint my own nails to save my life.

    9. Yes, I did that. I had acrylic nails with gel polish for more than 5 years. I was a regular (every 2 weeks) at the nail salon during that time. I loved how my nails and hands looked.

      I had the acrylics remove in late February, 2020, as we were getting ready to close on a new house and move. I was expecting to have my hands in paint and cleaners while we got the old house ready to sell.

      Now I apply nail strengthening clear polish every morning. Color is a irregular thing .

      1. Is there a particular strengthening nail polish you recommend? My nails are … not great.

        1. OPI Nail Envy. Everything else I have tried does little to nothing for keeping my nails from splitting, breaking or peeling. The directions say 2 coats on day 1 and a coat every other day, but I find that starting with 2 and adding a coat every weekday is more effective. It’s only downside had been needing real acetone remover to get it off, but even that isn’t bad.

    10. No. But I’m a fiddle player since age 10 and always needed very short nails. I buff them and I think they look awesome. You can look polished without the polish if that is what you are after (vs color and sparkle). I do get pedicures because they do make my feet look better but often opt for clear polish.

    11. I just…hate not having a nice nails. It’s expensive but I can afford it, and I love taking the time to go get them done. I’m not sure what your budget is but for me good nails and hair are baseline maintenance.

      1. Also adding to my own comment to say that nails are highly regional. Even my extremely low maintenance husband understands that most women get their nails every other week. It’s not a particularly high maintenance or indulgent thing here.

        1. Agreed that it’s regional. I’m originally from New England and never knew anyone to regularly have their nails professionally done. I moved to the south and it is definitely a baseline personal maintenance thing. I get dip manicures and generally have them last 3-4 week (I do have to clip them around week 3 and the last week I am counting the minutes until the appointment because I prefer short nails). If you like it, do it! I feel generally put together when I have my nails done. My oop cost is $75 every 4 weeks for a dip manicure and I have a standing appointment while my husband takes the kids to a lesson during the same time.

    12. If you can afford, you like it, and your nails can handle it, then do it! My fingernails break too much when I get manicures.

      I just keep my nails short and slap on clear polish. I use the Sally Henson two part “gel” polish if I want color. I get regular gel pedicures because my feet look like disasters though.

    13. Having my nails done makes me happy. I do not enjoy doing them myself and I don’t mind spending time at the salon to get them done. I started getting dip manicures regularly last summer, but need to stop now for budget reasons. My nails actually stayed well-protected and grew long with the dip powder. Hoping I can get get back into it at some point. If it’s something you enjoy and fits into your budget, then go for it!

    14. My mom and my aunt have always kept their nails done with whatever the technology of the day was/is.I like to keep my nails done but realistically only do it for special occasions or when they feel too ragged and it bugs me. But my mom and aunt are in the salon every 2-3 weeks like clockwork.

    15. My nails are always done but I DIY them with nice polish, which really cuts down on expense.

      I have some hobbies that are rough in my hands, so if I ruin my nails I just remove the polish and re do them easily.

      I love how my nails look and how put together I feel with nice nails.

    16. If you like it and can afford it, why not? But in case anyone is wondering: I have never noticed anyone’s nails in my office. I cannot tell you which women have short natural nails and which ones wear sparkly colored nails. I assume some people notice, but not everyone does. This is one where honestly whatever-makes-you-happy goes, from nothing to the famous one blue nail.

    17. I can’t remember the last time I saw my natural nails! I’ve been getting gel manicures (and now acrylic nails with gel on top) for the better part of the last 10 years. I love how they make my hands look and I feel so much more put together with them on. They also inhibit some serious compulsive nail biting/skin picking, which I why I started getting them in the first place, but now I continue on with them because I like them. Sure, they’re a money suck, but if you like how they look and you can afford it, why not? I personally love going to the salon– it’s nice to have an hour where I physically cannot look at my phone, and I’ll put on a podcast or listen to music.

      Yes, the application and removal ruins your nails but it doesn’t affect the nail material that hasn’t yet grown out. You could remove them and the nail growth coming in at your cuticle would be new and as good as your natural nails are. It doesn’t cause lasting damage AFAIK.

    18. Just coming in to add that I never understood why everyone said that gels ruined their nails because I had them for years with no issues. Then my nail salon closed during the pandemic and I went to a (highly recommended) place in my neighborhood. It is one of those massive places with multiple technicians and chairs. I loved their pedicures but after three rounds of gels, they had absolutely destroyed my nails because they rushed the removal. I am currently letting them grow out (I had to cut them as short as possible) and researching new places.

      All of which is to say – where you go matters. If they use a dremel to remove the gel or soak your while finger in acetone, run away!

    19. For me the equation is

      My feelings about having “pretty nails” <<< the money I would have to spend getting "pretty nails" all the time

      I like having pretty nails but I like having the money more. To me, this is a "pink tax" item and while I'll pay the pink tax for some things (nice haircuts; good skincare) I won't for others (salon color; salon mani-pedis). All of us have to make evaluations about what's important to us and what we're willing to pay for.

      I will say, as others have mentioned, that folks I know who have done repeated gel manicures eventually have to take a break because their nails get too thin and can't tolerate any more gel for awhile. So factor that into your calculus: realistically, you're only going to have continually pretty nails for awhile, then you'll have to take a break and they likely won't look so good for awhile.

    20. When you think about it, it’s so weird to have brightly coloured bits of plastic glued to the end of your hands.

  12. Umbrella insurance
    reposting from yesterday for more responses
    I am looking to buy umbrella insurance, likely from Geico as we have auto with them, but open to State Farm or AAA. Any recommendations between insurance companies? (I am not a veteran fyi). Looking for 2 million in umbrella. Have folks found these companies to be more or less comparable? especially interested in hearing about how they process actual claims and from anyone who has had occasion actually to use the umbrella policy. thank you very much.

    1. Unless you’re very unfortunate, you likely will never need to make a claim. It’s still good to get though, depending on your asset levels. I would stick with the blue chip companies and avoid Geicos, the easiest will be going with a carrier you have or getting a broker policy. You’ll need to carry the max for all your underlying policies. The premium on umbrellas is usually comparatively low.

      1. thank you
        which are the blue chip companies to consider? this is the OP
        thank you

    2. I have a $1M umbrella policy with State Farm. I also have my auto and home owners through them. The umbrella policy is $13 a month. It’s a no brainer to bundle with whoever you use for your other insurance coverage to get the best deal.

      1. When you have significant assets that could be attached because your underlying coverage isn’t enough to cover the liability. I’ve always carried it, personally. It’s cheap and I like the peace of mind.

        1. Sorry, basic basic questions, but how do I evaluate this? My assets are my house, retirement account, and taxable brokerage.

        2. Yeah my parents told me to get it when I graduated college. It’s like $100 a year so a pretty cheap investment.

      2. If you own a house, have kids, and invite your kids’ friends to play in your pool and trampoline.

    4. We went with Cincinnati and got $2m umbrella for a very reasonable price. They work with a lot of high net-worth individuals but it’s not a requirement. The benefit is that you get high net-worth individual customer service.

    5. We bought an umbrella policy when we had a pool. Our homeowners insurance refused to cover us without it. It was cheap. They did warn us that should we ever need to use it, the pool would need to go away, but we never had to.

      We still have it now. It’s cheaper than before, and it brings some piece of mind.

    6. I have everything with Geico currently, including a $1m umbrella. I have never had to file a claim thank goodness but I like the peace of mind. Worth it for $200/yr.

    7. I mentioned RLI yesterday and would just like to recommend them again. I have never made a claim, most people haven’t, but they’re easy around the renewal cycle. I don’t like having it attached to a particular primary insurer. I had Geico for auto and umbrella when I worked for one of the Berkshire companies, but then I moved and lost the employee discount, so I moved my auto insurance to Metromile. Then Geico dropped my umbrella. I had RLI before Geico and wish I had just stuck with them.

      I also like that I don’t have to have my homeowner’s and auto with the same company for RLI to attach above both.

  13. Low-stakes question – DH has a milestone birthday this weekend. As part of his celebration, we’re having a very casual get together at a brewery with friends. I plan to make a very short speech – any ideas on framing/what to say besides the usual “you’re my DH, I love you” (which is good for a reason!).

    Any words you remember from small events like this?

    I’m hoping our older DD can say a few words (she’s 5) but she also may shy-out!

    2. For your 5 year old- what if you help her write an easy poem to read? Like an acrostic or a limerick might be fun.
      I also love good anecdotes.

      1. This is a great idea. We did this for one Father’s Day and my normally very stoic DH nearly cried.

  14. Planning way ahead here: I’m on the US West Coast, and I’ve traveled extensively around New York, New Orleans, SF and PNW, with concentrated day trips to small Central California cities. I’m thinking about exploring the Midwest at some point. Iowa or Nebraska. I like trains (model and full-size), folk art, rivers and creeks, canning. I noticed there’s Czech-Slovak and quilt museums in IA. I love old “historic” hotels and B&Bs. Any recommendations? I think I would fly to one city and get a car to get out to these smaller towns. I do love to drive… TIA!

    1. At the risk of offending people there, I’d start with the east coast for expanding your US travel.

      1. Not offensive to this native Iowan. I loved growing up in Iowa and think it’s a wonderful place to raise a family, but I’m baffled why anyone would want to travel there.

        Chicago is one of the best cities in the US though. OP if you haven’t been to the Midwest, start there.

    2. I am headed to Des Moines this weekend, not for pleasure (although I have nothing against the Midwest), but I’ll report back on any northern Iowa cuteness I come across. St. Louis is a fun city if you haven’t been there.

    3. We were really impressed by Kansas City. A lot of Midwestern cities and historic sites seemed like they were within a few hours drive of there (presidential homes, etc.). Maybe look into that?

    4. IMO the only answer for the Midwest is Chicago. It’s an amazing, vibrant city that definitely has its own feel and of course is right on the beautiful Chicago River. From Chicago, you can do an Amtrak ride to points east, including Ann Arbor, which is a charming Midwestern college town that has a small river. Or you can go west out to the Quad Cities, which is a set of river towns but nothing to write home about.

      1. I agree with Chicago and for the next most interesting cities in the Midwest I’d vote for Minneapolis, STL and Kansas City. I also like Indianapolis and Cincinnati but those are farther east. For Iowa specifically, Des Moines is a lot more interesting than the Quad Cities.

        In the college town bucket (I have a professor spouse and have spent a lot of time in every major Midwest college town), I vastly prefer Madison to Ann Arbor. It’s the state capital and has a lot more to do. I don’t really get the hype about AA, unless you have a connection to UMich I don’t think it’s worth going out of your way for.

      2. + 1 to Chicago, as a current Chicagoan and native Midwesterner. Minneapolis is also great. Both places have unique and distinctive “feels”/cultures, and you could get a ton of recommendations here for places to go off the beaten track. But there’s a cool model train display at the Museum of Science and Industry! Plus we have the El!

        If you want to see rural or smaller town areas, I like Dubuque for the Mississippi River Museum. The west side of Michigan has nice beach towns. Taliesin (Frank Lloyd Wright building) could be fun.

    5. My vote is the mini-Apple for all of the things and also Prince. Minnesotans are awesome.

    6. What about doing a portion of Route 66? You can start in Chicago for convenience and then there are plenty of guides for what to see and where to stay along the way. If you are looking for some more small town things, it will also allow you to explore while not trying to find everything in one place.

      1. +1 to Route 66. I’ve only been on segments of it but it’s often kitschy and fun.

    8. If you love to drive a Midwest road trip could work for you. There is something really beautiful about summer evenings in the Midwest – lotta corn and religious billboards, but real beauty too.

      Chicago is truly a world-class city. I’ve never been to Minneapolis, but have met a handful of people from there who are all incredible. Also gotta plug Cincinnati – the museum center is a former train station that’s been preserved in all its Art Deco glory. I think you would really like it. And if you go to Findlay market and see a large man holding court at the butcher shop, who appears to be everyone’s best friend …. that’s probably my dad :)

      2. I love Findlay Market! (But as a longtime mostly vegan, I usually have to avert my eyes at the butcher counters.)

        Cincinnati also has some good contemporary art galleries and restaurants downtown and some excellent music venues, e.g. Caffe Vivace if you like jazz. (We are seeing the trumpeter Bria Skonberg there in March.)

    9. I LOVE traveling to some of the less traveled parts of the US. Roadtripped Oklahoma, Kansas, and western Missouri last year and had a blast. Have done similar road trips in other parts of the country in the past too. There’s always interesting stuff to see and learn and experience. This isn’t specific to the Midwest, but I’ve found that looking at National Park Service sites (not just national parks, but historic sites, heritage areas, historic trails, etc.) has never let me down. National wildlife refuges are great for hiking. If you have kids (or are nerdy adults!) getting the National Parks Passport stamps in all of the different sites are fun (and make for great souvenirs). State Parks are a good bet too. Look up the independent bookstores and the unique food traditions. Look up “historic walks” in small towns. Go to a minor league baseball game. Look up the New York Times “36 Hours in” series for ideas. Have fun!!

    10. If you love to drive, you can absolutely have a delightful trip! There’s a covered bridges scenic byway in Iowa that meanders through farmland and small towns. Omaha is a nice smaller city and if you really want to drive, head west to see Carhenge (though be warned there’s not a lot else there). Make sure you are aware of when places close and plan ahead, some smaller places may keep odd hours. But I think a trip to rural America is a great experience for people who have spent most of their time in cities, especially on the coasts. It’s a totally different kind of trip – whenever I go home to the Midwest I appreciate the things I do not see in my city, like wide open expanses of horizons, incredible thunderstorms rolling in from miles away, gorgeous sunsets, and empty roads.

    11. If you love trains, consider taking the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago — the scenery is awesome! It’s pricey if you get a bedroom (which you definitely should) but again, the scenery is out of this world. And Chicago is great city to explore.

    12. I would never vacation in Iowa, but if you want to road trip, you could spend a day in Pella (Dutch town w windmills, tulips) and Fairfield (new age, guru, celebrity vibe) and you could visit the Amish communities for food/souvenirs if that’s your thing. Stl actually has a lot of fun things to do, and of course so does Chicago, though it sounds like you’re going for a smaller town vibe. Omaha is also meh, though with a cool zoo. Indiana is the worst state in the country.
      Not Midwest, but you’d probably prefer asheville— gorgeous, lots of arts, great food and music, and they have a folk art museum

    13. I is n assuming that you want a road trip to see not-big cities and what the rural Midwest is like. The Route 66 recommendation is a good one. Tulsa has a remarkable amount of Art Deco, if you’re into that. There are small museums dotting Route 66. Scenery changes a lot, which is fun.

      Wisconsin is beautiful; if you also want the city experience, you can start in Chicago, drive through WI, and end up in Minneapolis.

      Cincinnati is an underrated city. The food is great. The Zoo is great and you can pay your respects to Harambe and see Fiona. The symphony is good.

      The problem with Iowa/Nebraska is that there is not a whole lot to see but there’s a lot of space in between.
      Ann Arbor to Cincinnati: 4 hours
      Ann Arbor to Chicago: 3.5 hours
      Chicago to Tulsa (via interstate, but parallels Route 66): 9.5 hours, with St. Louis roughly halfway between
      St. Louis to KC: 4 hours
      Minneapolis to Sioux Falls: 4 hours

      In between those cities, you can find plenty of trains, rivers, lakes, scenery.

      2. Agree on the bit about lots of space between things. I grew up in South Dakota near Sioux Falls. Instead of a road trip, I think targeting a cute town on a lake with a festival would be more fun than driving. Rent a lakehouse or condo and hang out.

        South Dakota does have good tourist hits around Rapid City (Deadwood, Customer State Park, Badlands, Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse, Wall Drug).

        For Iowa, do you like road cycling? You could do a multiday race.
        Or you can take Amtrak from Seattle to Glacier National Park.

    14. I would only come to Iowa if there’s an event like the Des Moines Art Festival or the state fair so you have a thing to do. DSM also has a highly rated farmers’ market in the summer. Do not come in the winter when it can be minus zero and covered with snow.

      1. State Fair is the reason to come to Mpls/St. Paul :) Late August thru Labor Day. That’s some major midwest flavor there – lot of new fried things on a stick, 4-H animal exhibits, seed art, agricultural exhibits, and carnival rides.

    15. I think you absolutely could have a good time in Nebraska. A few stops that might interest you:

      Lauritzen gardens in Omaha- pretty gardens, I believe they have a mini train area.
      Durham Museum- Omaha, cool museum with traveling and permanent exhibits in an old train Depot
      Mahoney State Park and Platte River State Park- between Omaha and Lincoln, Mahoney is bigger, Platte River has gorgeous hiking mostly around a creek that flows into the river.
      Joslyn Art Museum- being refurbished and will open again in 2024, I believe they have Folk Art
      Samuel Bak Museum- opening next month in Omaha, Bak is a Holocaust survivor. Excited for this one
      North Platte Nebraska- about three hours out of Omaha but home of the world’s largest rail yard. Also has the home and ranch of Buffalo Bill Cody you can tour.
      International Quilt Museum- this one is in Lincoln, it has a lot of cool quilts

      Out of Lincoln and Omaha, Brownville is cute and can cross a few things off your list with old(ish) buildings, trails, folk art galleries, etc. Red Cloud is a good visit if you are a Willa Cather fan.

      Obviously I live in Nebraska, but I’m of the firm belief that in most places (with an OK population) you’ll be able to find cool stuff to see and do. My husband and I spent a really fun long weekend in Milwaukee once because plane tickets were cheap.

    16. Thanks for the replies. I’ve been to Chicago (too often), Ann Arbor, St. Louis, DC, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chattanooga, Nashville, Jackson MS, Memphis, etc. I wanted prairies, but not *too* far north. I’m pretty well-traveled in the lower 48. I like the idea of tracing Route 66. I’ve driven it in Los Angeles and have seen the starting point in Chicago.

      Interesting that so many of the recommendations included cities outside the states I was interested in!

      1. Roadsideamerica.com is fun for trip planning if you like offbeat sites, such as the future birthplace of Captain James T. Kirk and the Corn Palace. I found there was a lot to see in South Dakota, if that isn’t too far west for you. Badlands NP has lovely prairie.

  15. Hello hive! I have a bit of a meta question. There are a few people in my life who look put together always. It seems like their wardrobe is tied together aesthetically, the pieces appear to be high quality, and their outfits always look complete.

    Even if I like individual pieces of mine, I feel like my outfits never quite look complete. They aren’t firing on all cylinders somehow.

    I guess my question is— for those of you who love fashion, how do you curate an aesthetic and collect pieces that match that? I’m not sure how to get started. I thought I’d try to build this dream wardrobe piece by piece…

    1. I’ve always had a strong aesthetic, preppy but with an edge and a little hippy – kind of Ali McGraw in Love Story. That vibe is basically what I shop for. I’m stocking up now while wide leg pants are back and I collect dresses that match my vibe – those are generally more trend proof. I do t know, I’ve just always been into it?

      1. This – having a strong sense of style actually makes shopping easier I find (though sometimes I’ll go a bit nuts when ‘my’ style is suddenly in again). I default to very classic/preppy clothes that are well tailored and in deep colors for work and formal situations – think the Fold/everything Claire Underwood wore for work, and Lilly/TuckerNuck/early season Betty Draper for weekend clothes (aside from gym clothes which are typicaly leggings/oversized tops/vests and hoodies).
        I admire concert t’s, ripped jeans, cool sneakers, shaggy hair, etc. on other people but it’s just not me. That is a big thing to learn – what you like on other people vs. what looks good/flatters you.

    2. How are your shoes? It shocks me what a nice pair of shoes will do to make an outfit look put together. I was wearing a schlubby turtleneck and old jeans yesterday, and my Thursday Chelsea boots managed to make the look seem, if not intentional, then at least not a total mess. Same with a good haircut, which I definitely don’t have right now.

        1. + 1 for The Curated Closet, it helped me figure out what colors work for me, and by narrowing the colors I buy, more things work together.

    3. I’d start by exploring your personal style preference. Are you more classic? Romantic? Edgy? Androgynous? What types of situations do you generally need clothes for – work, home, going out (and if so, what kind of going out)? Once you know what situations you routinely need/buy clothes for and what your aesthetic is I’d start paying attention to the silhouettes that look best on you.
      I find my life is easiest if I build outfits around a ‘base’ of colors – I have a black base section and a blue/grey base section of my wardrobe and then all of my colored clothes are red/purple/green/mustard/pink/tan. Grey/blue are usually for spring/summer/fallwith black in the winter. Winter shoes are mostly black to create a long line on my bottom half and go with black tights. Summer shoes are more pops of color but with navy/camel shoes as standbys. I’m working on remembering to wear my jewelery/accessories more often – I do when I’m out but I skip them when I’m ‘just’ working at home – they really do tie things together.
      Have fun!!

    4. I am often in the camp where my outfit doesn’t quite look complete but I feel like I’m improving. Here’s my $0.02 / looking forward to see what other folks say.

      (0) The trends are overrated. Think about what looks best on you / you like best and buy those things. Do you like a lot of look or something more understated? What is appropriate for your workplace? What cuts are your favorites? I have yet to meet a dress with a waist seam that I liked and I’ve given up wearing/buying them. Boxy pants are comfy but I look like I’m wearing pajamas so I’ll skip them.
      (1) Comfortable underthings (while still providing appropriate structure/support). If my skin layer isn’t comfy, I will fidget and the outer garments will look weird.
      (2) Nice things look nicest when tailored. Clothes that look only okay can look great with small alterations. I took a suit to get the skirt let out (the need and feasibility of which were obvious to me) but the tailor picked up that in addition the waist was slightly too big – maybe 1/4 inch. I wouldn’t have noticed but I was amazed how much better the whole thing looked as soon as they pinned the waist in at the fitting, and that was before they could let out the hips.
      (3) For a given outfit, pick the thing you want to be a focal point and structure the rest around that. Keep non-focal points low key. If I want color to be the thing, I keep my jewelry minimal. If I have a statement piece, I try to wear neutrals that help the statement piece stand out. (See item (0) though – I prefer a more understated look and I work in a sartorially conservative setting.)
      (4) The weather trumps all. If it’s miserably hot/cold/wet I am going to abandon all pretense of style and wear something practical.

    5. I like the style tip that is to come up with 3-4 words that describe your personal style. This helps me see if an outfit is ‘working’ for me and also makes shopping vastly easier – I’m less likely to buy stuff that is cute but doesn’t truly fit me or my wardrobe. My words are natural, refined, sleek, and edgy. This generally translates to wearing clothes that are not showy, but that are nicely tailored or have small elegant details, that are more fitted to the body or drape (so, no oversize clothes, no drop-sleeves), and perhaps have a bit of an All Saints type edge (grey jeans over blue, chelsea boots over moccasins).
      I think thinking about how everything fits together can mean trying on some clothes and accessories at home so you have in your roster a set of outfits (incl shoes, jewelry, hair, and bags) that feels ‘done’ to you. That way you have some go-tos.
      You can also just copy / use as a template outfits you see that you like. In this case I’d consider whether the wearer has a similar body type, that is, will it look good on YOU (I look ridiculous in crew necks, for example).

    6. I have a very intentional look and frequently get compliments about how I always look so nice. I have a few rules I have gotten increasingly strict about. I skew quite formal, lots of dresses and frequently wear a triple strand of pearls, silk scarfs etc, don’t colour my hair and have two silver streaks at the temples but am very fit and young looking in the face (just had a colleague tell me he didn’t think I could possibly be over 38 but I am 45). I wear the Fold dupes (lots of tailored architectural interest), lots of British brands, in general, like Boden and Joules for casual. I have a very classic, preppy look but it feels balanced and less matronly on my because I am very voluptuous.
      – I am ruthless about fit and will and have tailor anything. I am an odd size and it makes a big difference;
      – I never sacrifice flattering cuts for trends. I have an extreme hour glass figure and just not all things look good on me so I just don’t wear them. I know what silhouettes work for me and I stick to them (lots of heavily structured pieces, no one button blazers, wide leg trouser forever regardless of trend etc and so I pass on a lot of the Maxi dress, nap dress look or leggings);
      – I only wear colours that I know look good on me;
      – I always wear well maintained shoes and usually they are leather;
      – Very light and minimal make up every day (literally 90 second face but I still do it); and
      – Flattering haircut, never a messy pony etc

      1. @Seafinch – could you please post more about Fold dupes and where you buy them? I love The Fold’s pieces (which I have seen only online), especially the Belleville tops, but they are a little pricey for me. Thanks.

        1. Too expensive for me, too. I find Maggie of London at Nordstrom, Nordstrom Rack (in general), and the Bay (in Canada) can frequently have that very tailored, structured look. I find the Bay has some decent Calvin Klein and Eliza J that gets you part of the way there and sometimes Reiss on sale. It’s hit or miss and I have to be in the mood to pick through racks but I usually do okay and I don’t need that much because I wear a uniform most of the time.

    7. One thing that is helpful for me is knowing what silhouettes I look and feel best in – then your can recreate those with any number of pieces. For example, one go-to for me is a slim pant that hits just above the ankle, fluid top with a sleeve (ideally a v-neck or similar) that is slightly cropped or I can partially tuck, and short boots or flats that have a pointed or almond toe. I know my body works well with this combo, and look for pieces that fit the formula. The style of the pieces can vary widely but the formula still works. So, I’d put on an outfit you really like on yourself, and identify exactly what you like best about it.

    8. – Don’t buy a piece unless you already own the rest of the outfit. You either won’t wear the piece or you’ll pair it with items that don’t quite work and end up with a B- look.
      – Keep of running list of holes in your wardrobe. Maybe it’s a specific cut and color of pant, a casual summery purse, or a heeled bootie to go with black tights. Whenever you put together an outfit and think “I wish had X” add it to your list.

  16. My husband I just returned from a dream vacation on safari and I am really struggling to return to “normal” life. It doesn’t help that we live in the Northeast and are returning to cold and sludge. Any tips on how to get over the post-vacation slump? My dry corporate job working from home is feeling particularly dull and meaningless after such an incredible experience (which sounds cliche I know but I can’t help it).

    2. Yes please post details of your vacation here so I can live vicariously through you!

    3. Honestly, I start planning my next vacation. I realized it’s a privilege, but I love always having a next trip on the books to look forward to.

      2. Same. Except I’ve taken it a little far and have fallen beyond on planning our summer vacation because we have three big trips between now and then…oops.
        And yes please share the safari deets! Planning a trip for my 40th in 2025.

        1. Not OP, but we did a safari in Tanzania for our honeymoon and used Access2Tanzania and would recommend them.

    4. Plan the next trip for sure! That’s the only thing that helps me. I love coming back from a trip and being able to already look forward to the next one in 6 months or so.

      Also, for anyone else thinking about doing a safari, if you’re looking at South Africa and can afford to splurge – my husband and I visited Kings Camp last year (in the Timbavati Private Reserve outside of Kruger) and it was the most magical place ever. Incredible animal sightings!

  17. just wanted to send some positive vibes to anyone impacted by all of the recent tech layoffs. some of the linkedin posts i’ve seen have made me sad, some former classmates who’ve been at some of these companies for 10+ years etc.

  18. on the insurance topic – if you get long term disability insurance through work that covers 60% of your income, what does supplemental disability insurance do? everything i’ve looked at says it would deduct any other policy you have and will never cover more than 60%

    1. Usually, disability insurance payments are non-taxable. So the 60% that you get isn’t as far off from what you net from your salary. I don’t know why 60% is the chosen limit, but that’s my understanding.

      1. Are payments under disability insurance non-taxable if the employer picks up the premium or only if the employee pays the full premium cost?

        1. Taxable if employer pays the premium; non-taxable of you pay the premium.

          I think employers and insurers would say the benefit is 60% because your expenses are lower if you’re not working (commuting expenses, work clothes and dry cleaning, etc.), but the reality is that they don’t want to make it too lucrative for people to stay out of work.

        1. Because they want a greater level of income when/if disabled. They feel the employer provided disability amount (usually 60%) is not enough. But individual disability policies are not cheap, so I do not think it is worth it.

        2. Some supplemental plans do stack benefits on top of what the employer plan will pay, so that would be a reason.

          Or someone may want to have a policy that they can carry with them regardless of where they work – who knows if a new employer will have good coverage or none at all.

          1. The second reason is the reason I got mine, and it was probably the right choice as I am now self-employed and I think getting a new policy at my current age would be more expensive, though perhaps my lack of any medical concerns would mitigate the age thing since permanent disability would be a shorter period now. I am not sure.

  19. Embarrassingly, DH and I, lawyers and parents of young kids, don’t have life insurance. DH has type 2 diabetes and I was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, although I’m now cancer-free. Are there options for us and options that won’t break the bank?

    1. I think this is when you get an insurance agent and shop around for quotes… if it’s not offered through your companies. Your medical history may render you uninsurable or you may have high premiums.

      1. +1, this is correct. I had gestational diabetes with my first child and got life insurance after he was born. My premium is much higher and it was tougher to get in the first instance.

      2. +1. I have a clotting issue and life insurance for me was quite expensive compared to DH. Your best bet is to find an independent broker but also load up on the “no medical exam” and work policies.

      3. I have a congenital heart problem (doesn’t need surgical correction, just medication and monitoring) and my husband has had melanoma twice (second time he had to have Mohs surgery to remove it) and is a former smoker. As far as we can tell, we are uninsurable; we’ve been denied by every major carrier and all the minor ones we cared to contact. Our only life insurance is through our employers and we just max out what we can get without having to get a physical exam; I think we would each get 3x our annual salary if we were to die, which is actually not a bad number, for either of us.

        I am not too worried about life insurance any more, as our son is nearly an adult and we have investments he would inherit that are sufficient to cover him for a lot of years if we were to die, in addition to the insurance. His education would definitely be paid for and he’d have a very nice nest egg to launch him into adulthood post-college, which is all I really care about. My husband’s parents are dead and mine are well-off financially and won’t ever need my help, so I don’t lose sleep over not having a ton of life insurance.

        I would say most people we know in their 40s and 50s have a hard time getting life insurance outside of their employers, if they don’t have a policy that they took out in their 20s and 30s. And even then, the premiums keep going up to the point that once kids are grown, a lot of people drop the insurance as it’s just not worth it (like us, they figure their investments will help the surviving spouse/kids carry on). So if you are in your 20s and 30s and healthy, and you have kids or plan to have them (or have a spouse/partner or parents who are financially dependent on you) get a policy now – don’t wait.

        1. I’m in my early 40s, have no preexisting conditions (normal BMI, low blood pressure, great labs on my blood work) and it took me six months to get through underwriting.

      4. Definitely talk to a broker. Best time to get insurance is when you’re young, healthy and medically uncomplicated (which not everyone ever is), and second best time to start the process is today. Good luck to you!

    3. If you have the political capital at work, I would make “life insurance as a company benefit” my pet project.

      1. Life insurance through work isn’t good enough for parents of young kids. The need doesn’t go away when you lose your job and lose the benefit.

        1. When the alternative is “not having life insurance”, it’s a heck of a lot better than nothing.

      2. My employer-provided life insurance has always been an amount that would just cover things like funeral and probate expenses.

        1. My employer provided life insurance payout is 3x my annual salary (the highest amount I can get without a medical exam), which would be $360,000. More than enough to cover my husband’s expenses while he decides to either sell our house or pay it off, and help fund our kid’s college (along with what’s already in the 529s).

    4. Cobble together multiple smaller policies, including LTD and AD&D. I just received a solicitation from my college alumni office about an AD&D policy available through them. It is probably not a great deal, but it reminded me of your question, and an AD&D policy probably would not care about health conditions. In any event, really pay attention to your LTD benefits. You are far more likely to be disabled than to die prematurely.

    5. I had cancer and looked into this. Your broker can advise you – they keep a chart for each type of cancer, stage at diagnosis and treatment outcome and number of years cancer free. For some period (at least 5 years) you won’t be insurance at all. Then you will be insurance but it will be more expensive.

      1. +1 – I was DX with B.C. about 4 years ago. I had life insurance before the diagnosis, but need to get a supplemental policy to make sure to carry my youngest through all of school. I’m in a holding pattern waiting to hit the 5 year mark where I will become somewhat insurable again according to my agent. It’ll be a high premium, but at least it’s something.

    6. Make sure you are maxing out anything offered through your employers! It’s a great deal for most people but even more so when you have conditions that mean medical underwriting will result in $$$ premiums or uninsurable. Your DH may be more insurable depending on how well his T2D is managed. An insurance broker is your best bet, but it will be expensive.
      If you haven’t, make a plan (will, savings, etc.) for what happens to your kids if one/both of you pass, is unable to continue working, etc. Max out your employer AD&D and STD/LTD as well. These are almost always incredible value vs. getting coverage independently.

    9. We got term insurance when my first was born and that’s all we have. Twenty year term insurance that basically covers our mortgage — the idea being that if one of us died we didn’t want the other to struggle to make the house payments.

      Disability insurance is something I regret that we don’t have, but it doesn’t make sense financially for us and too many exclusions (I’m a writer so as long as I can dictate words I’m not “disabled”), but you might look into.

      If either of you are with a law firm you may already have life insurance through the firm (or can get it cheaply) – ask HR. (Or if you’re members of the ABA you can also look there.)

    10. You can go through policygenius to get a quick look. They’ll share some estimates from common insurers, then you can get a sense of options.

  20. Anyone else the one in their marriage who always has to initiate gardening? I would say he’s game about 75% of the time when I initiate. It’s such a blow to my feelings to just not feel desired in that way. He doesn’t seem to see the problem because we do have sex on a regular basis (once a week or so). I don’t really mind the frequency, but it just feels bad to to never be the one pursued. I’ve told him all of this. It doesn’t seem I make a difference. He assures me he loves gardening, it’s just how his libido works. I believe him and I love him. I just know where to put all my own desire to feel desired and I’m worried it’s going to be a problem long term.

    1. I wonder if letting go of some assumptions about gender roles might help? I’m your DH in my relationship and it’s just that I have a ‘reactive’ instead of ‘spontaneous’ gardening drive. In my whole life, I’ve felt spontaneous desire maybe 3-4 times. I could theoretically start initiating more, but it would require me to start making advances that aren’t genuine or fueled by any natural impulse. I don’t do this just because I’d feel a bit like abandoning myself to try to cater to someone else’s needs, and also I don’t think my DH would be comfortable with knowing I’m doing that out of a sense of obligation but not enjoying it.

      We get bombarded with messages that men are animals who want it all the time, but a lot of guys aren’t like that. It sounds like your DH has a reactive gardening drive, and just needs something to get going and feel into it. If he shows love and affection in other ways, and you know that he desires you (he’s gardening with you!), I would try to work on letting go of taking it personally. It’s how he is and doesn’t reflect on his attraction to you. Just figure out other ways to see his attraction and remind yourself it’s there, even if he’s not ripping off your clothes the second he walks home.

      From another perspective, we get women on here who talk about feeling like meat when their husbands constantly try to make unwanted advances. I’ve always been a bit spooked by men with high spontaneous drives, as it feels like it can come out in weird ways at times. I personally would way rather a husband with a reactive drive.

      1. I’ve read Come As You Are, and I get that his desire is reactive. I guess, I’m just at a point where I’m not sure I can be fulfilled in a relationship where I don’t feel desired. We had a realtively short courtship, so I don’t think I realized the extent of the issue. I don’t expect him to be ready to go all the time. I don’t want to feel like the responsibility of making sure we have any sort of sex life is totally on my shoulders.

        Maybe I just needed to put into words how serious the issue is, so I could admit it to myself.

        1. If you’ve tried to talk about it, and he hasn’t changed, your only options are 1) truly accept it and figure out a way to not equate it with not being desired or 2) move on from the relationship. There is a third option of constantly lamenting that he isn’t the way you want him to be, but gardening drive isn’t something that it’s easy to change or something you want to shame someone for.

          He could try maca supplements or see a doctor if it’s a medical issue, or you could see if there are other ways that he can make you feel desired.

      2. I deeply disagree with your first paragraph. We do things all the time for loved ones that we don’t really want to do; initiating should very much be one of them regardless of your reactive desire status.

    2. If you haven’t, I would 100% recommend reading Come As You Are, which addresses these types of issues around desire. Though it focuses on female s%xuality, it is very, very helpful in understanding these differences between partners, including men who don’t have the stereotypical drive. And I say this as someone who has had similar experiences as you – I know how it’s a blow to self esteem, for sure. But it has helped to know how it’s not about me most of the time.

    3. I’m in the opposite pattern (I’m almost always game, but don’t tend to initiate) so ignore if this isn’t helpful at all, but when he does initiate, do you accept? My husband is very yes/no and will frequently not be in the mood when I am. I understand this logically, but that’s not how I am and emotionally the rejection sucks a lot. Frankly, it doesn’t feel like he wants me to initiate based on my feelings, it feels like he wants me to pursue him when he’s in the mood, if that makes sense.

      One thing that helps us, is that he’s gotten very subtle about initiating. Certain looks or shoulder rubs mean he’s in the mood and are my cue to more boldly initiate if I’m game.

    4. My love language is physical touch and it was a big problem in my last relationship that he never initiated touch of any kind, including gardening. I had many conversations with him explaining this and he would understand, but never take any action on it. I think it was a big part of why we eventually ended. I didn’t feel loved by him, and by not feeling loved, all the annoying little things he did became bigger issues that turned into deal breakers. If I’d had my love goggles on, they probably wouldn’t have bothered me as much.

    5. I hear you and I’m right there with you, though I feel like I get turned down more often than not. That could just be confirmation bias, though. He thinks that he initiates but his timing is laughably awful. Like I’m late for work and rushing out the door and he decides it’s the right time. No I’m obviously not down for it at this moment. And I’m a 3x/day kinda girl, it’s pretty hard to find a time that I’m not ready to go, but he seems to have a knack for it. I don’t think it’s intentional on his part but I also think if he really wanted to he would initiate at a time that I’m not obviously preoccupied. I totally identify with Aubrey Plaza’s character on white lotus.

    6. I consider myself essentially asexual because although I enjoy sex, I never really feel a desire for it that pulls me to do that over any other activity I enjoy. I don’t feel a desire for any person. I love the closeness and intimacy, and it feels good, but I also enjoy a hug or sharing a good meal.
      I am never going to be able to spontaneously initiate sex with my husband. I just don’t think about sex most of the time. If he really wanted me to, I could set a reminder to see if he’s interested, but that seems too forced for us.
      Maybe try and think about the non-sexual ways he desires and pursues you. Separate the romantic and the sexual attraction. Does he reach out to spend time with you or take a little extra time to make sure you have that special treat he knows you love?

      1. You’re also allowed to decided that romantic attraction isn’t enough. You’re allwed to want sexual attraction. If you’re not getting it, you’re allowed to leave.

        1. Yes absolutely. Wanting sexual attraction is completely valid. And if she needs to feel sexual desire from her partner to find joy in a relationship, perhaps they are not compatible. But first, before leaving, it might be worth seeing if a mental reframe/relook can help.
          With my husband, we have had some issues as a result, but we have found a balance where he may be the initiator, but I express more of my enthusiasm for sex when I say yes than is completely natural for me. (I enjoy the sex, but until I am actually in the moment, I tend towards treating it like any other activity, which hurts him). And I also try to make sure I’m initiating more of the romantic connections, especially non-sexual touch.

    7. Do you have kids yet? My relationship with my DH used to be like this before kids (1x a week, me initiating). After kids, the joke about “birthdays and anniversaries” became true (me initiating). Then the pandemic hit. I don’t have a huge libido anyway, was celibate for years before I was married, and he’s never gotten me off. (Chef’s kiss to my toy, though.) I just liked the closeness of sex, but if he doesn’t want to do it then fine. Kind of frustrated that my relationship is exactly like my parents but happy otherwise so… whatever.

    8. In retrospect, in my relationship this was an undiagnosed medical issue. Came as a complete surprise since I would have said he was perfectly healthy and even athletic, but I now regret trying to explore this as a psychological or relationship thing when it was just hormones. I also regret missing the medical issue for so long since it would have been easier to treat if caught sooner!

  21. Following up on the dental implant thread, I am curious to hear about the experience of others with veneers. They have been recommended by my dentist to correct some dental issues, but the whole process and expense makes me queezy.

    1. Veneers require permanent damage to a likely-healthy tooth for cosmetic reasons. That would be a no for me, for the “damage” reason alone.

    2. I had this done because I had tooth issues from an antibiotic not in use in the US anymore. It basically looked like my front teeth had chocolate on them…and people told me that every day.

      My one dentist basically begged to do a temp cover thing that worked for 5 years — and it was time to fix so I got the veneers. My current dentist suggested the whole 8 front teeth because apparently they can’t fully match the material unless they are all done at the same time.

      I agreed to the 4. I regret not doing only the 2 affected teeth. Honestly, I went around being told I had chocolate on my teeth for 30 years, I guess I should have known that I wouldn’t be too bothered by my front teeth not exactly matching.

      So, in retrospect, given my issues, I don’t regret doing the veneers (though I will have to do them again in 15+ years), but I do regret expanding it to the 4 recommended as minimum. I should have just done the affected teeth, while recognizing that there would be a color difference.

      My insurance covered much more of it than I expected.

  22. where are you finding cute casual clothes? I keep getting ads for Shein sweaters & they are cute but probably crap. Everlane has some too, but are out of my price range. where are you shopping for elevated basics?

    1. I shop at Old Navy. All good quality and super cheap when on sale.

      Also Crossroads or Goodwill…

    2. Old Navy, BR Factory, TJMaxx, Nordstrom Rack (lots of diffusion lines) Macys, JCPenney (they carry Champion), Sierra Trading Post.

  23. Adding on to the Biden document thread from yesterday…documents were just seized from Pence’s home in Indiana lol

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