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Updated: Oct 30, 2020 419 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: The Dream Pant

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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If you’re looking for a slightly elevated jogger for working from home or in a casual office, I think this could be it. Everlane’s description of these pants is “Tailored Look. Sweatpant feel.” Truly a dream pant.

For a cozy WFH look, I would wear these with a chunky sweater and fun earrings. On an in-office day, I would do a black blouse, colored blazer, and some pointed-toe flats to give the look a little more gravitas without getting too stuffy. These pants are machine washable, but they do recommend hanging them to dry.

The pants are $68 and available in sizes XXS–XL. They also come in charcoal. The Dream Pant

Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Things to do

    If you had three months off between jobs, during winter, and travel was off the table, how would you spend your time? This is about to be me and I’m compiling a list of things to do to pass the days in fun and varied ways, and this group seems full of interesting hobbies. Looking for very specific examples (eg, learn to bake pain au chocolat, not just “bake more”).

    • Cb

      Start a sourdough starter and learn to bake with it
      Cook through an entire cookbook
      Read an author’s full backlist or do a reading challenge (read harder, or the other challenges)
      Start an indoor herb garden
      Do an online meditation class
      Learn to do a headstand

    • Anon

      I would definitely pick some topic or group of books that I’ve always wanted to pursue but find hard to have the mental space for — e.g. I would love to read/reread many Shakespeare plays, watch some performances on video, maybe some of the movies, and read some books about him and his plays. I would also love to do a reading course of important feminist works, in approximate historical order.

      Learn watercolor — I’ve taken some classes but I’m convinced that I need regular, extended practice to actually get to be decent. I would aim for an hour a day.

    • Anon

      I don’t know if your location allows for outdoor winter recreation but if it does and this was me I would:

      – Buy or rent new ski gear
      – Get a season pass
      – Downhill ski
      – Cross country ski
      – snow shoe
      – ice skate
      – hike with crampons where it is safe to do so
      – rent a snowmobile
      – take an ice fishing class
      – Go tubing (on snow not water LOL )
      – Make stews and chilis in a crockpot to eat after being out in the cold all day

    • Anonymous

      Try indoor rock climbing (open with limits in my area)
      Take a pottery class
      Take a drawing or watercolor class – doable online I think
      Swimming lessons
      Skating lessons
      Try snowboard again
      Try surfing (post swimming lessons)
      Learn Italian
      Practice French more often
      Learn to make great curry meals – I love curry but I’ve never mastered home cooking it.

    • Anonymous

      Train for a 10k
      Read at least 12 books from a “Top 100 Books” list
      Watch at least 24 movies from a “Top 100 Movies” list
      Cull and organize all of my possessions
      Learn to meditate

    • anonshmanon

      I’d try to achieve a thing. A woodworking or knitting or art project, learning a language or an instrument. Once when I was in this situation, I contacted a local non profit and volunteered my very limited time and ended up doing a lot of the planning and organizing for a big event.

    • Anon

      Make and buy decorations for holidays (Halloween, Hanukkah, and thanksgiving specifically)
      Frame the loose art that has accumulated and my favorite photos and hire someone to hang them beautifully
      Find out my favorite author’s favorite authors and read their books
      Learn to cook meat
      Get outside for half day at least three days a week
      Pick back up my childhood musical instrument and practice a few days a week
      Read the print newspaper most mornings
      Write letters

      Have a lovely time and report back!

    • Anonymous

      I would take a couple unplugged weeks. No tv. No phone (except telephone calls). Books, puzzles, etc.

    • IL

      – Take one of the Newberry Library online adult education seminars that run during the workday (or a similar offering in your city). Similarly, take a drawing class or language class virtually.
      – Turn a partner’s/child’s favorite-but-ragged old t-shirts/clothes into a quilted throw blanket. We have two of these in the house, and they are treasured items
      – I second the cook-through-an-entire cookbook suggestion. Top of my list would be the Sister Pie cookbook
      – Find a local foodbank that needs younger volunteers to help while their older volunteers are sheltering away from exposure and getting involved (if you are comfortable).
      – Offer to a watch a friend’s kid(s) for 1-2 afternoons a week to give them a break.
      On my partner’s list:
      – Build a bookcase from scratch with dovetail joints etc.
      – Teach yourself a new programming language

    • Curious

      Learn basic spoken Chinese, starting by listening to the tone tapes an hour a day. You really have to accustom your ear and I haven’t been able to dedicate that amount of time. But then grammar and basic conversation is exceedingly simple once you can speak with the right tones.

    • Anonymous

      Not sure if all travel is off the table and/or where you live, but I would ski all the weekdays. You could rent a house in the mountains or just drive locally.

      Alternatively, tackle a small but annoying home improvement project.

    • DLC

      Such good ideas! My local community college offers all sorts of non credit classes and i’ve been taking a drawing class. It’s been really great. I also was actually super interested in their appliance repair class and their coding class.
      Other things I would like to learn:
      – car repair and maintenance
      -bike repair and maintenance
      Not fun necessarily, but get my finances in order and maybe start investing.
      Catch up on all my Dr appointments.
      Read a really long book. Maybe even read the complete works of a favorite author.
      Go on an overnight (or longer) backpacking trip. Yes even in the winter.
      Organize a weekly distanced meet up with a friend.
      Write a list of all the people in my life that I’ve been out of touch with and call or email them. Particularly if they helped me in the past or if I need to apologize for something.
      Start a blog (does anyone do that anymore?)

    • Coach Laura

      Take 2-3x a week indoor tennis lessons

      Take master’s swim lessons/join club

      Cross country ski or take lessons

      Take a photography class

      Take a jewelry class (maybe video?) or get instruction videos/magazines

      Take up adult rowing (possible in Seattle, maybe not in Boston)

      Learn guitar (easily portable) or ukelele or other instrument. Or voice. Zoom lessons. This opera singer Onry does zoom voice lessons but I’m sure there are other non-opera teachers. https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/portland-opera-singer-onry-went-viral-for-an-inspiring-duet-now-hes-producing-a-documentary.html

      Take private French/Spanish/other zoom lessons supplemented by Babbel and/or Duolingo and subtitled foreign TV/movies.

      All things I’d like to do if I had time/money.

    • Anonymous

      Learn to make macarons
      Learn enough of a language to write someone a card in their native language
      Learn to light a firepit adequately (a personal goal of this lockdown!)
      Make your own all-purpose spice mix
      Grow a bonsai

    • Anonymous

      = get a beginner crochet kit for cute figures (eg star wars character crochet or happy potter character crochet)
      – actually do a 2 month yoga challenge- just do yoga every day in some form
      – read books. i would basically take the book list from book of the month club and read as many as i could
      – sleep 8 hours every night!
      – re watch all of the west wing
      – bake the following: brownies, cinnamon rolls, lemon cardamom rolls, no knead bread, chocolate babka, a cheesecake, red velvet cake, key lime pie
      – learn python, or at least basic python, which would be useful for my job
      – get my personal finances in order (Eg i keep meaning to rollover old 401ks, have never done it). do my will. get term life insurance
      – clean out my closet and sell things on poshmark
      – finish a gallery wall in my house with tons of holes
      – take virtual cooking classes for thai food
      – actually learn how to cook fish correctly

    • Another anon

      If you like to be outside and depending on what state you’re in, I know a couple of people who’ve done ‘visit all state parks’ challenges.

  2. Battery life in the woods

    I notice when hiking and camping that my phone battery just runs out fast. 2YO iPhone. I like taking pictures, but try not to use it, treating it as an emergency beacon / phone. Is there a spare battery / charger thing that is good for this (and not too heavy)? A friend suggested just keeping the phone in airplane mode. I could keep it in a baggie so it stays dry and just have on hand.

    • Cat

      The combination of cooler air and your phone perhaps struggling to maintain cell service in a remote area. If the point of the phone is being able to call for help if needed (and you’re less worried about incoming messages) then keeping it on airplane mode most of the time, maybe turning service on a few times throughout the day to check in, should help a lot.

      But by all means bring a portable charger! There are lots of inexpensive options. The smaller the charger, the smaller the charge capacity, of course.

      • Anonymous

        Poor service will drain the battery quickly. Keeping the phone on airplane mode will help a lot.

    • Anon

      A regular portable charger of at least 10000 or 24000mAH should work. You can get it at Target or anywhere similar.

    • Anonymous

      Cold air kills batteries. When out snowshoeing I make sure my phone is in my inside chest pocket. It’s a pain for taking pictures but otherwise the battery just doesn’t last. 1 year old phone.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I have two Anker-brand battery packs that I really like. They usually go on sale around the holidays (on Am@zon).

    • Jules

      My iPhone uses a lot of battery power searching for a WiFi signal. Turn off the WiFi option and just use cellular data if you need the phone for anything other than calls.

    • Anonymous

      Keep it in airplane mode and bring along any portable charger. I have a handful that I got from misc tradeshows.

    • anon

      Anker battery pack is what I carry when I go on vacations. Funnily enough it was my cousin’s phone that ran out of battery while we walked around Paris, her own town, and I the visitor lent her my battery pack.

    • anon

      I like anker battery packs. Definitely keep the phone close to your body to keep the battery warm. If you don’t want to keep it in airplane mode, turning off all the extras (wifi, bluetooth, etc.) and making sure you’ve closed all your apps also makes a difference.

  3. These pants

    These pants look promising! I have an Everlane sweater that I’ve loved, but have never gotten pants. Does anyone know how they run if you are pear-shaped?

    Hips are almost 2 sizes larger than my waist (improbably, that is an Athleta S in skorts and leggings and 10 pants at Eddie Bauer have a waist too big and hips a bit too snug, so even with a measuring tape, my mail order luck is <50% successful and in a store I try on every darn thing until something fits and still leave empty-handed sometimes).

    • Ellen

      I have the same question, as I have a tuchus that makes any kind of form fitting pants difficult to find unless they are spandex but there, I get a funky smell when I pull them down after wearing spandex all day. Rosa also has this same issue with spandex, tho she is svelte so it cannot be my tuchus that causes it.

    • Panda Bear

      Ugh that is my body too, so I am wondering the same thing… I’ve had some luck with Everlane sweaters, but have never tried their pants. Their customer service on returns was always fine, though, when things didn’t work out, so I might give these a try.

    • Anonymous

      I am a pear and some of their wide leg pants like these fit me. Some have a bit too much fabric in the front rise.

    • Anonymous

      For what it’s worth I am also shaped like that and exclusively wear Everlane jeans. I also really like the wide leg cropped pants. Haven’t tried others but i think it’s worth a shot.

    • Anon

      Just popping in to say that as an apple shape, I am jealous of you beautiful pear shapes! Sad to hear it’s harder to find clothes that fit (I have the opposite problem–things big enough in the waist are baggy in hips and legs). There’s gotta be a better sizing system….

    • Anon

      I’m a pear (28 inch waist, 38 inch hips) and I’m able to wear their skinny jeans. I tried one of their slacks, though, and it was suited for slimmer-hipped types. In general, everlane’s vanity sizing is over the top. I’m a 28 in said jeans, even though I wear an 8 curvy in Gap and a solid 31 in Amour Vert.

  4. Cat

    Anyone have specific gift ideas in the $30-$50 range for herself? I’m about to get asked for my wish list – links preferred – and am coming up with very little in this price range. I don’t need any clothes or accessories (in fact just did a large closet purge so the idea of finding things to buy, just for the sake of it, is off-putting) or the ever-giftable cold-weather stuff like gloves or scarves, don’t cook (that’s my husband’s thing), don’t need any throws or pillows, the home accessories I’m interested in (like art) are way over that price point… oh and they do not like giving gift cards or subscriptions or consumables, they like a “thing to open.”

    Basically the only thing I can think of is cute warm socks for WFH life.

    What I actually want- to be on a plane to the Caribbean. But we all know Santa doesn’t have THAT in the sleigh this winter.

    • Anonymous

      Even if you don’t cook, I assume you eat/drink? I like consumables for gifting as I prefer to buy my own ‘stuff’. Fancy teas or olive oils? Fancy coffee or chocolate or liquor? Local small batch soda selection? I find post covid most small businesses have upped their online presence and often have pay and pick up options so the products should be linkable in a wish list

      • Anon

        I have definitely been substituting “imported food I wouldn’t normally buy” for “actually traveling to the places the food is imported from,” and it does help!

        • Anonymous

          We have been doing this, but with takeout. Lots of mom and pop eateries from all over the world in my city — we found Ghana (jollof rice!). There is the Vietnamese restaurant across from the Vietnamese sandwich shop — we had lot of good meals from that block alone.

        • Anonymous

          Samesies! I did a British tea time outdoor garden party thing with two girlfriends last weekend that was so fun. We brought our own stuff and social distanced.

          DH and I are trying to pick a fav vacation spot every week for our Saturday night meal and do main, drinks and dessert from there plus play music. It really breaks up the neverending pandemic thing.

    • Cb

      Books – hardcover new releases! Such a luxury.
      Or the candle that was featured on Cup of Jo yesterday and sparked so much controversy?

      • anon

        Would agree with both of these! What about a great tumbler, or some kind of indulgent bath products? There’s a particular lotion I like that costs $40 and I feel absurd buying it for myself but would love it as a gift.

      • Anon100

        Going off on a tangent here but I had to look up that Cup of Jo candle controversy! I did see it was a sponsored post so not surprised that the price of a candle from that company was rather high. (Putting a plug here for scented beeswax candles by Bee Natural LLC from Philly’s Reading Terminal Market because I love them since I discovered them 6 years ago. Not as pretty packaging as the one featured in CoJ, but definitely much more affordable.)

      • Anon

        Is it bad that I read the comments on that post and my first thought was, “$50 isn’t even that much for a candle!”

        (I am a bougie candle kind of girl.)

    • Anon

      Some Etsy artists do calendars in this price range (usually a collection of 12 prints, not a glossy flip book). I realize that’s not what you mean when you say “art,” but it could be something you’d enjoy if the “links preferred” wishlist style means you can indicate the exact ones you like?

      Maybe you’ve thought of these home accessories, but just in case: House plants? Pretty home organization type things like boxes or baskets that you may enjoy even if they end up in a closet? Practical kitchen items you’ve been getting by without but would use if you had them (kitchen scale, cooking thermometer for whatever kinds of cooking you do, garlic press, pretty storage containers with lids)? Luxury linens like a silk pillowcase or one of those hair wrap turban towels?

    • pugsnbourbon

      Some of my go-to items for myself and others:
      – a bottle of nice bourbon (obviously)
      – planters/plant pots/plants
      – multi-packs of those hand warmers for outdoor stuff in the winter
      – fancy body wash/lotion
      – books
      – new towels if mine are looking raggedy (I’m boring)
      – socks, always socks (yep, boring)
      – fancy teas or coffees + a mug of some kind
      – a welcome mat – either a funny one or a super-functional one from LL Bean
      – polarized sunglasses
      Hope this is useful.

    • Anonymous

      Fancy skincare stuff you that feels too indulgent to buy for yourself? Books you have on your list? Are you exercising more outside now such that you need more winter workout gear?

      • Anon

        Re. skincare in this price range, I picked up the MyChelle retinal serum in a random WF order, and I discovered I love it. It doesn’t look indulgent, but it smells nice in a natural way to me and has been very gentle on my ridiculously over reactive skin, so it has felt like a luxury despite the packaging.

    • Cat

      thanks for this growing list of ideas, all! They are not ‘consumables’ people, but things like a new welcome mat are right up their alley. Taking notes :)

    • NY CPA

      Candles.
      Slippers.
      Cozy sweater/sweatshirt for WFH.
      Anything that might make your WFH set up better if you don’t already have it (e.g. mouse, cute mousepad, keyboard, anti-fatigue mat if you like standing while working)
      Also, I know you said you don’t need more cold weather gear, but one very specific cold weather item in this price range that I’m asking for this year is a pair of mittens that flip back to become fingerless gloves. I want these in case I do outdoor dining over the winter, so I can grab the fork/knife when needed but then have my fingers be warm the rest of the time.

    • New+Here

      Books
      A nice candle – I buy myself B&BW candles, but love getting nicer ones for gifts
      Nice(r) skincare things that I want, but have trouble pulling the trigger on
      Gift certificate to a virtual workout class/program

      These are all things I have on my personal list

    • Anon

      Even if you don’t cook, you entertain (in the past, will in the future, or just like the table to look nice).

      -candlesticks
      -specialty drink glasses (coupe glasses, highball, bourbon snifter)
      -new tablecloth, runner, placemats
      -cheese tray

      Look through Anthropologie’s website for other ideas.

    • SSJD

      Seconding the polarized sunglasses idea. (I got a great pair from Sunski in June and they are so helpful although my pair was much more than $50.) Other ideas on my wish list include a foam roller, yoga mat, yoga block, weights. I’m also really enjoying things that smell beautiful including soaps, drawer sachets, draw lining paper, luxurious laundry soap (try The Laundress for all kinds of fun splurges for the laundry room). MoMA’s shop has some nice decorative items I wish someone would buy me (including the Iris bowl which I’d love to have in my kitchen), fun tissue box covers, clocks, and more. Calendars are also nice this time of year. Other ideas include tools for work/desk organizing: pretty letter opener or file folders or a great pen. You could get a lovely water bottle you might not buy yourself (I tried out Takeya this summer). If your closet cleanup revealed an opportunities for better organization, you could look at the container store for jewelry storage, scarf storage, shoe storage, etc.

    • DLC

      I always like nice office supplies. I’m a sucker for fine point pens (.3 or thinner) in beautiful colors. Or high quality notebooks.
      Also arts supplies and nice paper.
      More sustainable versions of single use items that I use- like Stasher bags, or those silicone fruit/veggie covers, or beautiful cloth napkins.

    • Ribena

      This price range is really hard! The only thing on my wish list between £20 and £50 is a £22 set of new coloured pens (Stabilo Pen 68 fan girl here). Book vouchers are a wonderful gift.
      Presents I’m planning to give in this price range include shirts from local/ethical brands – Howies and Quite Nice Clothing, for those in the UK.

    • anon a mouse

      How do you feel about puzzles? Or games? There are some great games in that price range, like the ones by Keymaster games for example.

      Holiday table decor like napkins or placemats? Tools – do you need an electric screwdriver or electronic tape measure?

      Have you wanted to take up a new hobby? A cross stitch kit, knitting kit or watercolor painting set would be in that price range.

    • Anon

      Basically everything I want from Sephora is in this price range. Hair masks, cuticle oil, stuff like that.

      I also buy the mascara and lip samplers every year–the travel sizes are great to stash in purse, desk, etc.

    • anon

      10 foot long charging cable.
      Fancy mugs for when you need to be extra on 8am zoom calls.
      Bright, colorful pens.
      … and a weird one but saved a lot of fights with the husband over theft of the iPhone charger… new outlets that have USB charging ports.

    • Anon

      If you are crafty, check out cross-stitch samplers or other craft kits
      Wind chime or bird feeder if you have outdoor space
      New kitchen towels or cloth napkins
      Phone case
      High-end mask (so 2020)

    • Anonymous

      Long underwear for outdoor socializing! Plants! Disney+ subscription for a few months! Aquis hair turban! One of the Vitamin C serums that is in that range! Craft kit! Puzzles!

    • Cat

      Just got a chance to check back in… thank you for the brainstorming everyone!!

    • MJ

      I love the Andre Clouet Gran Cru Champagne from SommSelect for $48. It’s a gorgeous label, delish champers and it is always a delight to give or receive. They ship nationwide.

    • Sasha

      Fresh Lotus Youth Preserve Dream Face Cream is $50 for 1.6oz, so definitely a bit of a skincare splurge but not insane. It’s so gentle and hydrating and smells amazing. It’s my go-to gift.

  5. Lily

    Can anyone who has the Haven West Elm terminal chaise sectional sofa (or any of the Haven collection) comment on quality/comfort? I know people like to hate on West Elm, but the last sofa I had from there actually held up well (we gave it away because it was too small) and was pretty comfortable, though small. We’re looking for a deep, soft sofa to lounge on with dogs and kids. We’ll be getting it in the performance velvet, which in our experience is a workhorse with pets/kids. Just looking to see if anyone has had this specific sofa and whether you liked it. The other one we’re considering is the Harris, but it looks less comfy. TIA!

    • Walnut

      We bought the shelter sectional from West Elm in May and loooove it. It’s holding up well with three kids under five.

    • MJ

      I recommend the Macy’s Radley sectional for this. It’s great, wears like iron, does not show marks because it’s a textured fabric, cushion covers are washable, and it goes on sale relatively often. I have the four piece sectional that’s L-shaped and it’s going strong after four years.

    • H

      We’ve got it in leather, had it for about a year. Looks great, and is sooooo comfortable. When my kid was doing a lot of 4 and 5 am wakeups randomly last year I’d lay down with him on the chaise and we’d both sleep for another couple hours. Love it.

  6. pugsnbourbon

    Y’all, I have had a WEEK. Work has been hectic, can’t sleep, every time I think about the election I get nauseated, and I got into a dumb fight with my wife last night.
    I would love to read about any wins you’ve had this week, or something you’re looking forward to, or any other good news. I appreciate this Hive and hope you all have a fun, safe weekend.

    • Cb

      I’m right there with you, and our desperately needed weekend away just got cancelled (we were going to an isolated cabin to read, cook, hang out, and do puzzles). But my toddler was adorable in his farmer costume this am and when my husband asked him if he was ready, he replied “I was born ready!” so we started the day with a laugh.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Baby costumes are the BEST. My dad texted me a pic of my 1.5 yr old nephew in one of MY old Halloween costumes! I have no idea why it wasn’t thrown away years ago but it sure made this morning a little brighter.

    • Anon

      Hey Pugs! I hope you have a good weekend and your bad week stops with this Friday! For my win, my firm looks at receivables more than hours when decided if we met our goals and get bonuses. I do a lot of contingent fee work and things were looking really behind for a lot of the year. A lot of that was due to busy medical providers unable to send the records I needed for my demands and clients that couldn’t get certain care due to the pandemic. Suddenly, everything came together and I was able to get a bunch of demands out and surprisingly, I’m getting quick good settlement offers on them despite trials still being on hold. It looks like I may hit my receivable goal after all!! I still have some negotiating to do on them but it is looking promising.

    • No Face

      I am really looking forward to a self-imposed social media, internet, and election news fast, starting Sunday night. I am uninstalling social media from my phone and committing to not look at the internet except for strict work purposes until Wednesday. I will allow myself to check into the news on Election night for thirty minutes so see the status. Otherwise, I have ebooks from the library on my Kindle, period pieces to stream on my tv, and a big list of freezer meals to prep.

      • Bonnie Kate

        +1 to this plan. My friends were talking about their “survival” plans for next week and nothing was sounding good to me – your plan sounds great to me. I’ve been off Facebook since the beginning of September and vastly reduced my Insta following, but limiting it down even more sounds really good.

      • SC

        And this is how I didn’t learn about a hurricane heading to New Orleans until Tuesday, when my boss told me. He had a laugh, but it was fine because we prepared for hurricanes like 5 times this season.

    • Vicky Austin

      Man, solidarity. I’ve had a really rough week too. Here’s a funny story for you: yesterday I had to cold-call someone I’ve never met. She’s the treasurer of an association that fundraises for the hospital I work for, and her last name is somewhat famous around town as a family of people you don’t mess with. I had a kind of weird question to ask her and I wasn’t sure what to expect. I dialed and got the message, “Please enjoy this Verizon ringback tone while your party is reached.” And with no other warning, “I GOT THE EEEEYE OF THE TIIIIIGER!”

    • Clementine

      My boss told me she’s retiring and also that she knows I have the skill set where she is comfortable leaving. She also told me she’s pushing for me to be promoted before she goes AND has been helping me coach my staffer (who has been in the same role for 15 years!) so that staffer can get a promotion too.

      (This is a case where the staffer is an incredible technical expert but a bit prickly and literally needed somebody to coach her and say, ‘Yes, I get that they’re being dumb in this meeting. Just say, ‘Yes, I hear you, we’ll take back and review,’ sometimes, don’t just say, ‘No. You’re wrong.’ right off the bat and refuse to talk further on it.)

    • Anonymous

      It took me four hours, but I managed to change my own garbage disposal and saved myself $400 from what the plumber quoted me to provide the same disposal and labor. No leaks so far, so I consider it a win. I’m slowly but surely trying to become more hands on in my own home as opposed to always outsourcing. This is a step in that direction.

      • pugsnbourbon

        That’s a big win! I’m so glad Youtube exists – someone has always had my problem before!

        • Bonnie Kate

          My dad has always been pretty handy, and still loves youtube for this kind of thing. So it’s so good for all levels of handiness. :)

      • MagicUnicorn

        I am slowly changing out all the fixtures and hardware in my bathroom. One will involve soldering so I am saving it until last, but it sure is satisfying to see the results of a project I did myself with my very own hands!

    • ThirdJen

      I dyed the tips of my 5 year old’s hair purple last night. It was my first at home dye job and I’m terrible at it, but she is THRILLED with her poorly blended “mermaid tips”.

    • Curious

      This will out me, but I’ve decided I don’t care.

      We launched something we have been working on for a year!

      And then I sent the launch announcement with DRAFT — feedback requested in the title. To 1,000 people.

      Also it looks like I will hire two awesome women by end of week.

      • Bonnie Kate

        Yay to launching and the new hires!

        Did you get any fun feedback back? :) I actually would be more likely to open that email than just a normal subject, so I bet you just increased your open rate.

    • Anonymous

      I hear you, I told my husband we need to have a bucket handy because each time I think about the swing state results coming in I want to hurl. We are camped out in our rental getting it ready for the next tenant and surprisingly have been having oodles of fun when we are done for the day ordering take out from our favorite local restaurants, and walking the empty city.

    • Bonnie Kate

      We’re building a house and our big custom front door (so a hole not easily filled with a temporary door, so it’s just been covered by a dang tarp!) has been on backorder for 8+ weeks (yay covid). It finally came in and was installed yesterday!! And the previously-slow drywallers got all the drywall hung in the house yesterday and finishing can start. Not counting on moving in any time soon quite yet, but those two things were major wins that I’ve been waiting for for weeks!

    • Anon

      I’m going on a hunter pace this weekend with my old barn–think timed trail ride with jumps (no actual hunting or hounds involved). I’ve never done one before, and I’m excited. For Halloween, I think we’re going over to a friend’s house to sit on one side of the yard while they sit on the other side of the yard and kids walk by and pick up candy from a table at the end of the driveway, and I’m exciting about seeing people and costumes, even if socially distanced/masked.

    • SC

      In a personal win, the hurricane did not do any damage to our property, and we did not lose power. My office lost power, and I’m not able to work remotely when the power in our office is out, so I had a day off to help clean up the yard, read a couple of hours, and cook dinner with my husband and enjoy it with my in-laws (outside and socially distanced).

    • Anonymous

      I sent in a photo of my 13 yr old dog to a calendar contest and didn’t think he would have much of a chance since they always feature action shots and puppies and such. (He’s very gray and had part of his jaw removed a couple of years ago due to cancer–most folks can’t tell but his face isn’t symmetrical). And he was chosen out of more than a thousand photos to be the month of November for 2021!!! My husband and I are now referring to him as “Mr. November” and taped a print out of the photo above his bowl.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      My boss told me that when the job finally gets posted she thinks I’d be the only realistic candidate for a (small) promotion in our 250+ person organization!

    • Senior Attorney

      One more: I surprised my sweet husband wtih a flock of pink flamingoes on the front lawn for his birthday and he loved it! They looked great surrounding his “Veterans for Biden/Harris” sign!

  7. NY CPA

    I’m struggling with what’s the best plan to vote. I went as they opened at 7AM this morning and there was already a 2.5 hour wait extending several city blocks in the pouring rain and wind. Due to a medical condition (not readily visible, i.e. they wouldn’t usher me to the front bc I’m in a wheelchair or something), I’m not able to stand on line for long periods. I’m not sure what would be the best time to vote. Do people think it’s going to actually be better on election day, since there will be many more polling locations? Or worse?

    • Anonymous

      Saturday or Sunday at 7am is probably your best bet now. I wouldn’t wait until Election Day.

    • Anon

      If they are open tomorrow, go tomorrow and bring one of those chairs people use for picnics.

      Call your city hall and ask for their suggestions. It’s possible that a doctor’s note would help – go to the front of the line and ask. Ignore the dirty looks.

      One year, when I was an election day attorney, there was a 3 hour wait. The other attorney and I escorted people to the front of the line and did not ask questions. “I have diabetes and need to eat.” No questions asked, come with us.

    • Anon

      I would go to the front of the line and ask the poll workers what they suggest. Early voting has been going on for a few days now so they probably have a sense of how the crows ebb and flow.

    • Ellen

      Here’s Dad’s solution: Go very early (6:00 am) as soon as the poles open on Tuesday, b/c by then all of the people that voted early won’t (or can’t) come back, and no one is going to be at the back of a line then. The weather is supposed to be sunny but chilly on Tuesday (in NYC), so you should be good if you wear a winter coat. If you know someone with a wheel chair or one of those walkers you can sit down in, borrow it, and have someone (or UBER) drive you there. Your UBER driver should assist you getting into the walker, and when they see you at the pole, they will not want to you sit out there on your tuchus waiting in the cold, so they will at least push you inside. So even if you have to wait a few minutes, you will (1) be seated in the wheelie-walker, and (2) be inside where you wont freeze your tuchus off. Just remember to wear a mask b/c people may think you have COVID and not let you in. I am voting Tuesday morning, but Dad says I am abel to stand on line with the others.

    • Anon

      Ask for an accommodation! Bring a doctor’s note if it makes you feel more comfortable. I have an invisible disability too and I have to pre-board on Southwest to get a seat that accommodates my disability. In the past I wanted to tell the gate agent the whole story to justify what I need. They have informed me that all I need to say is “I have a disability, I need to pre-board” and that’s it. I sometimes say “I have a not-visible disability” just so I feel a little more credibile.

      In your case, I’d go to wherever the ADA people are, or if not clearly marked, just walk up to any worker and say I have a disability that precludes me from waiting in this line and need accommodations to vote. You can also try calling your town clerk to ask about that procedure.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1. Our early voting sites are averaging a 1.5-4 hr wait and the weather has been terrible! A couple of my friends have been successful with what Anon at 10:05 suggests.

    • Minnie Beebe

      I requested a mail-in ballot this year, and dropped it in a dropbox, but I’ve never waited in a long line when voting in person on election day (which is my preferred choice)– I have found that as you stated, early in-person voting can result in very long lines because there are so few early-voting locations relative to the precinct locations on election day. Given the choice, I usually choose the shorter line on election day (I go early as well, usually between 6-7 am.)

      However, I live in a blue state with elected officials who are not actively trying to suppress the vote, so we generally have a sufficient number of polling places. If I lived in Georgia or similar, my response might be different!

    • ThirdJen

      Is curbside voting an option in your location? In our state there’s a line monitor type person and you could flag them down for curbside voting.

    • No Face

      I do not have experience voting early in person, but on normal election days I have found that the line is longest when polls open than the rest of the day. I would see how the line was around 1pm or so.

      If the medical condition prevents you from standing for a long time, I would call your election authority and ask for advice/accommodations. If you just have to wait in line, I would recommend a bringing a lawn chair or walker that you can sit on.

    • Anne

      I am so sorry! Are you in NYC? It is absurd that their BOE didn’t get this right. I think first thing on election day may be the best bet in NYC (and basically NYC only) because at least there will be more polling centers open. It’s terrible that they did not open enough early voting centers or have enough machines at each center.

        • Anne

          Ugh, sorry. Maybe at least contact your councilperson to reform the BOE? They consistently fail to get it right. I do think election day is the best of bad options in NYC unfortunately.

        • Anonymous

          Contact your council member and ask what they advise. On the off chance you live on the East Side and I could be of assistance this weekend, I’m happy to try.

        • Anon

          This really sucks. Also in NYC. In my neighborhood, there was no wait whatsoever (I timed it – 7 minutes). My boyfriend waited 3 hours in his neighborhood — we went around the same time. Comparing notes, there were the same number of machines/check in people at both locations, where his clearly had a much greater need.

      • NYCer

        We did absentee ballots in NYC this year, but I definitely agree with this approach. There are so many more polling sites on actual election day. I would just wait until then.

    • NYNY

      I went to my early voting site on Sunday afternoon and it only took 30 minutes, even though there had been a line around the block earlier in the day. I think a lot of people see the lines and decide to go early, so morning lines are worse than later in the day. Can you try around 1pm? Or tomorrow afternoon?

      Also, they were letting people who needed it come to the front of the line, inside, and sit for a moment before cutting the line. It can’t hurt to ask, even if your condition isn’t visible.

    • Anon

      We’ve always had good luck going to early voting an hour two before the location closes on a Friday or Saturday evening. We voted in this election as soon as early voting opened in our area, on a Saturday; we went at 5:30 p.m. (locations close at 7) and waited in line 5 minutes. We’ve had reports of 2+ hour waits for people who go earlier in the day. So if you can try to go this evening or tomorrow evening, that may work.

    • Anonymous

      Im in the New York area but in the suburbs and my thinking is : if it’s a four hour wait on Election Day, so be it. I’ll wait because it’ll be necessary at that point. But I’m not willing to put up with the four hour wait to vote early when I’m able to vote on Tuesday. I’m also wondering if adding to the early voting lines is helpful to folks who need to vote early, when I’m just going early for my peace of mind. Does that make sense?

    • Anonymous

      I have worked as a voter protection attorney (inside the polling place) for many elections. Every year, the busiest time was when the polls opened. Things got quieter late morning, and then we’d get a bit of a line at lunch time. From mid-afternoon on, there were hardly any voters, regardless of how crowded the polling place was earlier in the day. Of course this was during Normal Times, but from what I’ve seen and heard, it will probably be similar at early voting places and on Election Day. Good luck!

    • anon

      I just got back. I suggest going early afternoon tomorrow. Lines are longest in the morning. I had zero wait around 1:30 today

  8. Random Friday Question

    If you could leave your job today and have the same income that you earn currently for the rest of your life (adjusted for inflation), with the only restriction that you could not earn any substantial income* from any other source, would you? What would you do with your time?

    *selling your photographs at an art show or publishing a novel doesn’t count — as long as your main goal is not the earning of money but the pursuit of the art/craft/etc.

      • Anon

        Yep. I’d stay home with my two kids and dog, and get another dog. I’d continue to serve on a few boards I’m on now. Most the women in my social circle and my neighborhood don’t work or only work part time so I’ll have plenty of friends. I’ll take art classes too (I’m on the board of an arts organization and have never taken advantage of the free to me classes from some great local artists).

    • Anon

      HELL YES. I would have an amazing yard/garden, my orchids would be well-tended, I’d be involved with community theatre & music orgs when they reopen, volunteer more with orgs that are important to me, I’d run or ride my bike every day, my dogs would incredibly happy and I wouldn’t need my car, since I’d have time to do my errands on foot or by bike.
      My life would be small, but it would be 100% on my terms and I’m pretty sure I’d as busy as if I was working.

    • Clementine

      I would train and run Iron Man races and be a really present parent. I would teach exercise classes specifically designed to promote health and physical fitness, not weight loss, and make them free and accessible.

      I would volunteer for girls on the run and work at our local children’s cafe, which serves food and provides homework help and an incredible resource to one of the poorest parts of my community. I would volunteer as a parent mentor to help keep kids out of foster care in the first place.

      • Anon

        Yes to learning languages. I studied all the “easy” ancient/dead languages that were offered at my university, but I never graduated to the harder ones. Translations are great but not the same!

    • Anon

      Well, let’s pretend that I make more money than I do currently because I make a fraction of what some people here make!

      But, absolutely. You know that scene in Office Space where he’s thinking about what job he would do if money was no object, and his answer is absolutely nothing? That’s me. I would be content to do nothing for the rest of my life.

    • Anonymous

      Yes. Basically do all the things I listed in response to the first post of the day plus travel and volunteer.

    • Anon

      I’d be a SAHM, master gardener, do lots of yoga, cook a lot, and keep a clean house. I realize this would necessitate sending my kid to daycare part time.

    • Vicky Austin

      Totally. I’d spend days doing nothing but reading and writing. I’d train for triathlons and get into the habit of running miles with my dog every day. (I’d get a couple more dogs, actually – maybe even the higher needs breeds I find so beautiful but couldn’t have with my 9-5 job.) I’d do so much cooking and baking. I’d take some classes on interior design so I can decorate my own house and make it beautiful the way I want it to be. I’d play the piano and try to teach myself something from all the classical masters.

      • anne-on

        I’d steal all of these ideas except for the running part, ha, I hate running. I’ll decide to do pilates and certify as a pilates instructor instead! SO.MUCH.BAKING. I’d also do a LOT more volunteer work, we have such high need in the towns around us and I wish I had more time to help in person instead of just writing a check.

    • No Face

      SAHM to my kids. When they were old enough to be in school full time, I would write novels during the day and volunteer with nonprofits I care about. I would also garden a lot, both literally and figuratively.

    • Anon

      I would do this in a second. I volunteer with non-profits (board seats, event planning, etc.) almost enough to be a second full-time job. I would quit my job and just continue that work, which I enjoy much more than what I get paid to do.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Yes. I’d open a non-profit yoga studio and teach; let all the money earned go back into the studio to pay other teachers and pay the studio bills. I’m actually planning on doing that as a side hobby business whenever COVID makes that realistic again, but in your scenario I’d be able to spent far more time building it.

    • CPA Lady

      I don’t think I could ever fully stop working. I need some level of structure and to answer to someone else in my life to stay on the rails. I think this is pretty common, based on some of the situations I see in my work.

      That said, I guess it depends on what income level you count as not substantial. I would ideally work 15 hours a week as a bookkeeper at a non profit making $9 an hour like I did a decade ago when I was studying for the CPA exam and waiting to get a “real” job. Do we count $135 a week as not substantial? If so, I’m all in! I’d make a you tube channel talking about random stuff. I’d go to the fancy gym five days a week. I’d be more available to do stuff with my kid and take her to lessons and do other fun stuff. I’d travel more. Not sure about volunteer work. I’m kind of burned out on it, but maybe I would be less burned out if I weren’t trying to cram it on top of all the other stuff I do.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Where do I sign up? This would be amazing.

      I have so many ideas for how to fill my time, but I’d probably start with opening some sort of community garden or teaching space where I could share my knowledge of obscure handcrafts with anyone interested in learning. And move.

        • MagicUnicorn

          Deal! Spinning yarn on a drop spindle is my current rabbit hole. It would be delightful to have company!

    • Anon

      God, yes. In a heartbeat. I admittedly make a lot of money (I mean, not as much as some people on here, but objectively a lot of money), so this would be an easy decision. My yard would be perfect, my garden well tended (I mean that in the literal sense of garden), I’d ride and do yoga every day, I’d finally get around to reading the like year and a half of National Geographic issues I’m behind on, I’d take all the pictures, I’d bake a lot more. Basically, I’d do my hobbies I don’t have nearly enough time for because of work. This is why I don’t understand people who work until they’re 70-something. My job is fine, but it’s not what I want to spend 8-10 hours a day doing.

    • Anon4this

      Absolutely, but I’m a BigLaw senior associate so my compensation is very high. I’d love to have more time to spend with my kid, make having a second kid seem a lot more realistic, time for pottery, hiking, volunteering more with some of the organizations I tend to give money to because I have no time.

    • Friday

      H3ll yeah. My daily routine would be: coffee+meditation, stretching or yoga, drop kiddo off at day care for a half day, work out, sauna, eat lunch, pick up kiddo, go for a walk or bike ride, make dinner. When I got bored of this/kiddo starts school, I’d push hard to foster kids again.

    • Anon

      I would foster special-needs kittens and senior cats. And probably need a bigger house, for all my foster fails.

      (Going all-in on that crazy cat lady thing; luckily my hubby is a pet person.)

      • Saguaro

        Along the same lines, I would open a Cat Cafe so I could foster even more kittens and cats.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      Ehhh. Maybe. I really like Seattle but my salary is on the low end of what it takes to comfortably live in Seattle. But I’m not sure I would want to move elsewhere. I’m okay with it right now because I love my job but I’m not sure how I’d feel about it without work. Plus I get a raise every year and COL adjustment.

    • CountC

      Yes, 100%. I make plenty of money now to live a comfortable and happy life. I would sell my suburban house and move to a larger piece of land closer to hiking/running trails/state parks, with a small but useful house. I would build some outbuildings so I could foster and take in senior and disabled animals, I’d learn how to properly garden so I could feed myself fairly well from the land (vegan, so no meat or dairy needed). I’d meditate more and get back to being able to focus on reading (aka force myself to put my phone away, turn off the tv, etc.) I’d also find organizations where I could volunteer my time to help rectify food desert issues and also volunteer with seniors (this is in a COVID-free world or at least a more COVID-safe world). I’d also probably want to find a very part-time job at a local small business (so no substantial income) where I could learn who lives in my new community/area and help people out as best I could with all of my new found free time.

    • Anon

      Honestly? I’d do my existing job (change agent) a lot more aggressively, and/or leave for a more innovative start-up.

    • Anonymous

      Yes. I would park BM my @ss on our boat and cruise. I would read, sail, drink wine, explore new places, bum around various islands, have small condos in 3 places instead of a medium house in an inner suburb near my office.

      I’d Invent more time in my (actual) garden, probably run for town council/ school committee in some capacity, visit my very old grandma and help out with her care (I have young kids but I’d keep my nanny on so I could do this), help coach 3rd grade town soccer, take a board position at a local nonprofit, maybe if the work itch were still there I’d try and get a board seat but I doubt I’d want to.

      Also, I would invest heavily in LLbean clothes, bicycles and a typewriter and be an aspiring Jessica Fletcher a la Murder She Wrote. Probably without writing a novel.

    • Wannabe decorator

      I’m dying to renovate another home. Maybe flip some houses and start a non profit that helps low income home owners renovate and beautify their homes? Or a non-profit that helps historic home owners renovate without destroying character? Maybe I could just have a small hobby business consulting with renovations?

  9. Anonymous

    I listened to a really interesting podcast from Women at Work (from HBR) the other day about asking for help. I want to find ways to ask for help and am wondering if any of you wise women can help me figure out if there’s anything else I can be asking for. I am completely overloaded with my biglaw job and childcare and have been burning the candle at both ends since March. My problem: I don’t know what help I can even ask for. I am normally all about outsourcing, but what I really need is more childcare. We have an au pair because normal 9-5 childcare wasn’t enough. But now the au pair does 9-5 childcare (which has been a lifesaver, and I feel bad about even complaining, but my job is not 9-5!). My law firm seems keen to help associates at a macro level, but… a concierge service and Bright Horizons credits are not going to help me during a pandemic. I’m a senior associate and the partners I work with really do seem to want me to stick it out and join the partnership and keep telling me to make sure not to burn myself out and to reach out if there’s something they can help with, and while they and clients are for the most part okay to accept that I will be slightly delayed or can’t do calls at certain times, this just means I’m doing calls or working on documents late into night, night after night, and am always slightly behind. I’m in a transactional practice where I haven’t really seen people successfully reduce their hours. I like my job and I’m very good at it, and I don’t see another job out there that I’d prefer, but the pie eating contest is barely sustainable under normal circumstances and I don’t know if I can grit my teeth through another… 9 (??) months (who knows??) of this. I’m not sure there’s anything I’m really asking here or just yelling into the universe…. If any senior women out there were a partner I work with who wanted to see me succeed, is there something obvious I you think I ought to be doing or asking for to prevent myself from burning out?

    • Anonymous

      You are a senior big law associate. Pay for childcare. Either find an open day care or hire a full time nanny and have your au pair go back to mornings, nights, and weekends. That’s the requirement of your job and you get paid bucket loads of money.

      • Anonymous

        BigLaw partner here and my kids are tweens. Otherwise, I think I’d have to do this: FT nanny and au pair covers the odd hours. I found that in my MCOL city, it was hard to find an on-the-books nanny in the later elementary school years who could meaningfully oversee schoolwork for <60K/year (can't remember if that was all-included or taxes on top of it). It was easier to find a nurturing (but not tech savy or able to help with much complicated math) for the younger ages or for older kids that really just need a driver / loose oversight (e.g., my medical friends who have to work shifts or have call or post-call exhaustion where they need to sleep). It is a slog. Throwing $ at more in-your-house childcare is about the only way through it but it's not forever (which may make it hard to find/keep/eventually lose the nanny). Good luck!

      • Anonymous

        Yup, big law pay scales are devised on the pretext that the money is used it to outsource everything, so buy more childcare.

      • anne-on

        Yes, I am seeing a LOT of teachers/daycare providers in our local facebook groups posting about being open to homeschooling your kid/tutoring for you. Can you get someone just to manage the school work (who, lets be honest, is probably more qualified for it than your au pair) and have the au pair go back to covering mornings/lunches/after school hours? I’d also ask the tutor person to build in some additional work if you think your school is not offering enough (and if your child is old enough for it).

      • anon a mouse

        Yep, this. My friend who is a biglaw partner has a day nanny and an au pair to cover evenings and weekends. It’s a lot of juggling and a lot of expense, but it’s how she manages. Whenever she has a lull, she gives them the day/night off and spends them with her kids.

    • The Original ...

      If it were me, I would spend a day or even a week writing down as many thoughts and actions as possible. Then I would assess the constant things. For example, many notes of stress on where something is or chasing someone down would show me that I needed some type of assistance with organization or maybe a virtual assistant to deal with that stuff or something. Lots of brain power planning may mean I’m carrying too much emotional labor in my family and I need to outsource lunch making or meal prep or something in that category. Maybe it’s in laundry service or housekeeping help. Maybe it’s in setting boundaries that I need to work on with a therapist. An accounting would give me a clearer image of the minutia so I could pick it apart for answers.

    • CHL

      It sounds like you know what you need — more childcare. Like a night babysitter and weekend babysitter? Or have the au pair do some of that and get a 3 day a week day time nanny? There is some additional risk but it sounds like you need it! It’s not magic – it’s a match problem. Also, where’s your partner at in this? Hugs — these are trying times!

    • Anonymous

      You need a part-time nanny or a second au-pair. 9-5 childcare is insufficient for a biglaw job unless you have a partner who works part-time. This isn’t a really a firm specific issue, it’s a common situation in biglaw.

      The question is not just is there another job you would like better, the question is, would there be another lifestyle you would like better? Are you willing to have less job satisfaction but fewer hours? There’s no right or wrong answer, it’s a choice. I chose fewer hours in a job with a short commute but I don’t love the work. That makes my work time less enjoyable but I work less so enjoying work less isn’t such a big part of my life.

    • No Face

      One thing this pandemic has taught me is that there really is no replacement for good childcare. Are you able to hire a part-time baby sitter, either financially or covid risk tolerance-wise? If you like your career path, is your partner willing to go part time or stop working?

      If the answer to all those questions is no, are you able to take full days off from time to time? I am a litigator. Back when I was at a larger firm, I had cases that appeared suddenly, were very intense, and then settled. When a case like that settled, I always took the next day off and hung out with a SAHM friend. I had my laptop with me in case I needed to answer a question via email. I never told the partners I was taking a day off.

      Good luck!

    • Anon

      Hi! I’m in a similar boat – you need to pay for more childcare! Like a lot more childcare. It’s the only thing that is going to make things feel more sustainable. Also, outsource anything else you can – if you dont’ currently have a cleaning service, get one, send out your laundry, look into grocery (or even better meal) delivery. For me, the only thing that has helped me power through the long and unpredictable hours as a biglaw senior associate is realizing I need to spend those biglaw dollars on anything that makes my life easier. My time is spent basically working, with my family or doing things that bring me joy. If something doesn’t fall into one of those categories, I’m paying someone else to do it. I know we are still in the middle of the pandemic but you can bring back a lot of your outsourcing now and you really need to. It’s not sustainable to only have 40 hours of childcare in biglaw unless your significant other has a very easy/flexible job, and even then you probably need more to avoid resentment, etc.

      • Lawon

        Agree. The women I know who have made it with a working spouse have 1.5/2 nannies…. That didn’t work for me so I left.

        • Senior Attorney

          Same. It’s been that way since I was a BigLaw associate 30-plus years ago.

    • Anon

      You need more childcare or a stay at home spouse. Maybe you could send the kids to half days at daycare so the au pair has the mornings off and can work later?

    • Anonymous

      Honestly “get more childcare” is so glaringly obvious I’m confused by this post.

    • Anon

      Do you have a spouse or partner that is looking after your children after 5? If so…where are they in all this, you sound like a single mother the way you describe the help.

      But also, if you want to be partner, you know you have to keep working like you do. The whole point about being senior is that you have the power to flex your own schedule a bit. Utilize your midlevel and junior associates – if you’re a micromanager, STOP!

      But I echo what others are saying – you’re a senior associate in a law firm, you can afford after hours care, so get it.

    • Anonymous

      OP here. Trust me if we weren’t in the midst of a pandemic I’d get more childcare (and I did!) but it seems less obvious to me that it’s the right choice right now. I guess the other choice is see if I can pull back on my hours somehow without destroying my career. My husband is a great partner and takes on more childcare hours than I do and while not pulling biglaw hours has a full time job as well and is pretty consistently working for a few hours after we put the kids to bed. My youngest is back in daycare and I have an au pair who is now working 9-5 taking care my early elementary-aged kids. I have house cleaners and grocery delivery and some meal delivery (which maybe I should increase). Clearly, to get ourselves back to where we were before the pandemic in terms of childcare, I’d have to hire another nanny/babysitter. I’m not keen on adding yet another person into the mix because of the risks, but I guess it’s clear what the trade-off is.

      • Anon

        More childcare is absolutely what you need. If I were you I’d look for one who will make dinner 4-5x/week. The time you do have to spend with your family should be quality time. Not time figuring out what to make for dinner that night.
        I have no children and I also have house cleaners and grocery delivery as an absolute minimum. You need most meals prepped for you, all laundry done for you, tidying up done for you, errands run for you, and house cleaning done for you.
        You have two big-law salaries. You aren’t going to be saving a lot right now but that’s not the immediate goal. The immediate goal is to keep your career on track and keep you from getting burnt out so that your salary stays where it is.

        • Anon

          +1 get a nanny who will make dinner consistently. At least for kids. My high powered friend with 4 kids has an au pair, a nanny (for daytime hours for the younger 2) and sends the older 2 to school. In addition, her mom comes over and makes and serves dinner to all kids a few nights a week. You have to throw money at this. Even during the pandemic, maybe particularly during the pandemic when we have enough more on our to-do lists.
          Having my nanny make dinner was one of the best things I did for myself when I was working a stressful job. And she always had a cup of chai waiting for me when I got home (we are Indian American). Some days the thought of that hot cuppa when I got home was enough to keep me going through a tough workplace interaction.

      • Anonymous

        If you don’t hire a nanny you aren’t going to make partner. You just aren’t. You can’t continue working less like this.

      • Anon

        You either have to decide that BigLaw isn’t for you, and make a career change, or accept the risk of bringing in another care provider. Unfortunately, sometimes all we have in front of us are less-than-optimal choices. If you’re committed to your career, don’t let what’s happening right now, in this season of life (small kids + pandemic) derail you. This is a situation where you have to do what is right for future you, not you-right-now. At the same time, if you are feeling a strong pull away from making the kinds of sacrifices the job is demanding of you, listen to your inner voice. It’s speaking to you for a reason. I am not in BigLaw, but I have read story after story here over the years of people who have left it and found happiness elsewhere. So I know it is possible to do that.

      • All the nannies

        Yes, I think the that’s the tradeoff. We have hired a remote-learning nanny for my kindergartener. So we have two nannies for two kids (other one is a nanny share for the baby, at our house half the time, started pre-pandemic). It feels ridiculous, but that’s what 1 biglaw + 1 gov attorney require in pandemic time. Yes, it’s increased exposure, but it’s that or stagnate in my career (at best, and who knows how long this continues) or get fired (unlikely but possible.) We had always planned to do au pair/part time nanny for elementary anyway, because after-care at school was not as long of hours as daycare. This pandemic is really, really taking a toll on working parents.

        • All the nannies

          And for me, at least, it’s not always about the hours – it’s about the emergencies. I’m a litigator, so while I have a lot of control over my schedule, sometimes I just…don’t. And I have to miss dinner, or bedtime, or whatever. And then there are other times where I have all week to work on one brief, lots of flexibility, and so if the nanny calls out sick I can take an afternoon with the baby while spouse takes the morning. So, at least in my job (as it sounds like in yours) reducing hours is more about being efficient (ha!) than making some sort of structural change.

          Practically speaking, I think you could maybe, maybe ask for a few things (we’ve been having this convo at my firm, too): an understanding that certain hours (in our house, it’s dinner) where you have limited access to phone/email and that partners understand this, thus reducing your stress at these times; camera-off or phone call policy so that you don’t have to be on Zoom and can multi-task to get calls done during the day; anything tech-y or whatever that would increase your productivity/comfort (noise cancelling headphones, etc.)

          And Bright Horizons (or an on-call nanny service rather than a drop-off site) might really be useful if au pair gets sick or needs a day off, so that’s not nothing!

          Otherwise, I have really found that it’s key to get as much done during the usual work day as possible (she says while on this site..). Pushing my work into the night is not good for me, for my work product or my family. I try to save more menial tasks for that time…but sometimes, late night is the only stretch of brief writing time I get, so that’s when the brief gets written.

          Again, this all sucks.,

          • Anonymous

            I feel seen! Ha. I think this weekend I will have a chat with my husband about what we can do to hire more help in the least risky way. It feels so silly to *miss* being away from my kids during dinner and bedtime or weekend time, but a couple times a week, that was what I really needed to be able to focus when e-mails and calls weren’t coming in left and right! Replacing those hours with 9pm-midnight is wearing me out. Folks have been understanding about not trying to force calls to happen during the witching hours. Part of this is also I just need a d*mn break for a few days. I normally have a little slow time after a big deal closes, but I’ve been gunning the engine for like 6 months straight.

          • All the nannies

            I totally hear you on missing dinner/bedtime. It’s even harder I think WFH, because you probably wouldn’t think twice about staying late at the actual office, but when that office is also your bedroom and you can hear dinner going on without you…..the worst.

            Also, in my experience, the lack of vacations is getting to me. My office respects vacations (for the most part, planned around briefing schedules) and it’s been SO LONG since I’ve had an actual break.

            I can do the 9-midnight pull (plus the 5-7 AM stretch in my house) a few times a week but no one can do every night for six months. You need a break. Can you take a staycation? I’m seriously considering checking into a hotel for a night just by myself to have like 18 hours of silence where no one needs me. (Obviously I would love a night away with my spouse, too, but that would be better after I had a night alone.) Taking a break + getting more childcare = making it through this marathon.

      • Jess

        Having one more nanny is less risky than sending a child to daycare to be honest.

        • Anonymous

          OP here. This is of course a very good point! Thanks, honestly. I need to get to grips with the new reality.

    • Anon4this

      I asked this a few weeks / months ago and basically got roasted in by the comments, so good luck. But yes, more child care is the answer for most people. My family is high risk so it was really hard to find a nanny at all that would meet what our doctors told us was necessary and its not enough hours but it is what it is. After the roasting I engaged 2 nanny search agencies to see if I could find the number of hours of care we needed with our doctor’s requirements and could not. If you want to make partner I’d just grit your teeth and do it. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve finished work before 11pm since March. Its hard but I prioritize sleep. I get meals delivered, we send out laundry, and I’m not doing anything that isn’t 100% necessary outside of work.

      • Anonymous

        Oh please. You didn’t get roasted. You got told the truth- you can’t do your job without enough childcare.

        • Anonymous

          Let’s not pretend people here aren’t rude to OPs though. It happens. A lot.

        • Anon

          OP – I guess…with all this childcare, at what point are you even parenting? Like what’s the point of having kids if you’re outsourcing them THIS much? I think a lot of women are struggling because their priorities are way, way out of whack. So my input is pull back your hours. Coming from personal experience…this will mess up your kids at some point. Your kids need their mom, you are their mom. So be their mom.

          • All the nannies

            Nope. Not here for this today, or any day. OP (and all of us) are doing our best in a pandemic. And would you say the same thing to a man who traveled a lot for work in the Before Times? There are many, many parents (including those who don’t make anywhere close to Biglaw salaries) who use a village for child care and work long hours away from their kids. “Being their mom” is about more than caring directly for them X hours vs Y hours a week. Ugh. I just can’t this week with this.

          • Anonymous

            Thanks again, All the nannies :) My kids are so loved by their whole village, including grandparents and aunts and uncles, who all played a much bigger role in their lives (physically at least!) before the pandemic. I’m trying to figure out how to plug that gap in addition to others as it dawns on me over time that this is how it’s going to look for a long while. I was raised with the help of a grandfather and a nanny while my parents worked full time and my dad travelled all over the world working hard at a job he was passionate about, and I consider myself and my siblings fairly not-messed up, which is a good enough reference point for me. It’s 100% clear to me that my kids know they can count on me to be their mom even though I work hard.

          • anon

            Nope. Nope. Nope. Take this sexist nonsense elsewhere. A lot of childcare, especially those early years is really just actually physically doing stuff to take care of kids. The changing of diapers, feeding, meal prep, bath time, running errands, etc. it’s not necessarily particularly meaningful time. Outsourcing so much childcare for me means that the time I spend with my kids is 100% hands on focused on them not trying to cook at the same time or keep track of a grocery list or get my kid to sit still so we can see what shoe size fits. During the time I spend with my kids, we sing songs, we dance, we read books, we play games, we kick soccer balls, we go on adventures (well not so much now) and chat about things we see at the museum or wherever we are. Honestly i feel like I get more actual time with my kids (like where I am focused on them and not trying to do something else) than a lot of stay at home parents. There are numerous studies that back me up. Average stay at home moms spend only something like an average of 15 minutes a day playing/engaging with their kids in an active manner. I get a lot lot lot more active time than that. I’d much rather have only an hour or true time with my kids than three but where I’m half paying attention to them because I’m making a grocery list, answering work emails, cleaning up a mess, changing a diaper, mentally figuring out what is for dinner, etc.

          • anne-on

            Aaaand there had to be at least one sexist ‘if you use childcare why even have kids’ comment.
            Bonus points as it sounds like you don’t have kids! Awesome a$$vice!

  10. Anon

    Posted late yesterday, trying again:

    Trying to find a nail polish color in my mind and wondering if it exists.

    Remember grape bubble tape gum? I want that nail color. So it’d be kind of grape purple but it was almost dusty from the powder to keep it from sticking to itself or something, so maybe a light dusty grape or something? Also, a color, not a top coat translucent but a real color.

    Any ideas on this? Thanks!

    • Cat

      Essie is great for this- they have a good sort by color feature on their s-te. Check out “just the way you arctic” maybe?

    • Anon

      I saw your post yesterday, then later in the day I was browsing the Blue Collar Red Lipstick blog and a few posts down she did a post about costume jewelry. I noticed on one pic there’s a close up of her hand that seems like the color you’re describing. Maybe you could comment/message to ask what it is!

    • Anon

      Zoya has an excellent selection of purples. Zoya Polish goes on nicely and lasts pretty good too.

      • buffybot

        Dark Sky used to be great, but in the last….6 months? It has taken a real nosedive for me in accuracy. Right now it can’t even tell me if it is actually raining outside with any accuracy. (NYC area in case it is regionally more accurate)

    • Ribena

      AccuWeather. I like its MinuteCast feature to see what the next two hours look like.

    • Marie

      Weather Kitty. You can put in multiple locations and every weather home screen has a picture of a kitten along with the weather. I believe there is also a puppy version. I use it as a second, less serious app and check it multiple times a day just to see the change in kitten because they are so cute. Overall, it is accurate, but does not have radar, so I also use Dark Sky.

  12. IUD strings

    I’ve been thinking about getting a hormonal IUD, but my latest research dug up a ton of comments/reviews about being able to feel the strings and even the strings injuring partners. I realize the irony of me asking this on what is also an online forum, but…is this just a very vocal minority problem? Is there a large silent majority of women out there for whom this is not an issue at all and not worth worrying about?

    • The Original ...

      Super minority in that aspect; remember that the ones with major issues will talk about them and the ones who forget it’s there 3 days later won’t even remember to post online. Mine was the best thing I ever did and, after seeing how well it worked, many friends got them too. In my circle, maybe 20 people over the years, and they would tell me details. None ever said strings bothered them or their partner. One DID have a vagus nerve reaction at insertion (which wasn’t great) but it was worth a second try and she later said it was worth the reaction for many years of never thinking about it again!

      • All the Flannel

        I’ve had two IUDs and my spouse says he could sometimes feel the strings in the first couple months after it was inserted. But they soften and he didn’t notice it later on. It definitely didn’t hurt him! He just described it as being able to feel some tiny strings. I think it’s a minority who can really “feel” the strings…

    • Bonnie Kate

      I’ve had both the hormonal IUD and copper IUD and never feel the strings, nor has my partner. Partner is, ahem, not limited at all in that area, so it’s not a matter of not reaching…just hasn’t been an issue for us whatsoever.

      • Anon

        Same. I have had 3 Mirenas and will get my 4th next year. I can never feel the strings and my husband has never felt them either.

    • Anon

      If you can feel the strings they will trim them for you. I honestly didn’t like my IUD but if you’re willing to do insertion, removing it is trivial if you don’t like it.

      • givemyregards

        +1 when I got my second one, the next time I went to the gyno for a regular exam I mentioned that sometimes tampons would catch on the strings and she trimmed them (she said they usually leave them a bit long to err on the side of caution for when it’s time remove it, but they can actually be cut quite short). I’m sure your doctor could do the same if your partner could feel them to the point of distraction. I think IUDs are great (and the insertion for me was obviously not my favorite activity, but really wasn’t that bad – comparable to terrible period cramps) and recommend them to everyone.

      • Anonymous

        +1, my husband felt the strings and while they didn’t hurt, it was uncomfortable (I suspect more mentally than physically, which is fair!). I had them trimmed and it was fine.

    • Anon

      That is extremely uncommon. After insertion, the string curls itself so your partner shouldn’t get injured – if that’s the case you need to get the string trimmed. Now if your partner is…over average, they may feel the base of it but not in a painful way.

    • love my mirena

      I’m on my 3rd Mirena and I love it. I’ve never been pregnant and the insertion and removal were no problem. I had a bit of spotting for a few days after each insertion, and mild cramping for about a day. My husband has felt the strings on a few occasions in a specific position, but it hasn’t hurt him and it’s easy to modify in the moment if he feels uncomfortable. The strings do soften over time, so on the rare occasion that he feels the strings, it’s usually in the first month or so after insertion. When I got my first IUD and he felt the strings, I asked he if wanted me to have them trimmed at the check-up appointment, and he said it wasn’t a big deal.

    • Anon

      My husband complained that they scratched him (both times, currently on my second Mirena), so I got them trimmed.

    • Anon

      FWIW, I was also scared of an IUD. I’m sure it most likely would have been fine, but …. Anyways, I decided to do the arm implant instead and I’m loving it. Just throwing that out there in case you want another option

    • AnonMPH

      Not sure if you’ll see this but I had an IUD for five years, during which time I had multiple partners. It was never an issue until I got together with my now husband. He’s, er, well-endowed so he could feel the strings. Once we realized that was the issue I got them cut down and it was never a problem again. It made it a bit harder on the removal, but still not painful compared to insertion. I will definitely definitely do it again after kids (or even between kids).

    • Anon

      I’ve had two Skylas. DH could feel the strings on the first one, and I had them trimmed at the follow up after insertion. They eventually softened up over time to where he couldn’t feel them. With my second Skyla, he could only feel it in a certain position– but that only lasted a couple of weeks. Overall, we both preferred the Skyla. It was much less stressful. I had no headaches/migraines/etc.

  13. Anon

    NYCers, help please!

    Helping a friend decide where to move in NYC so there are 2 questions:

    1. Does she move in the last week of this year to lock in covid plus winter pricing or does she wait and move in March and hope covid pricing holds long enough to be the same or better rates 3 months later? She is locked down for work either way and plans to move no matter what, it’s just when the best pricing would be.

    2. She is debating between two areas, 40th to 49th or 65th to 90th, as close to Broadway and a subway as possible in each location, for a bunch of her own reasons. Any guidance on either? (If it helps to know, she is looking for a 1 bedroom under $2000).

    Advice for either or both? Thanks!

    • Clementine

      Soo… when you say a 1BR under $2k… you mean she’s looking for a share with 4 roommates… because i don’t even know if you’re going to find a 1BR for under $2k in Jersey City or Yonkers…

      • The Original ...

        I have a relative who just moved to what was once a $5000 apartment that he got for $2800 a month after they calculated in 3 free months to get him to sign a 2 year lease. I also just did a quick search and there are many that show up in this location area for 1 bdrm under this rate, some even show $1450 a month. Covid dropped prices big time! (It makes me want to move too, now that I see the numbers!)

      • Anon

        I just searched StreetEasy for UWS, 1 bedroom, under $2k and got 184 results. I’m sure some of those are BS in one way or another, but there’s got to be a few that are legit.

        OP– 40-49th is at best boring, at worst sucks. the 60-90th area will be great for your friend. I don’t rent in manhattan so no advice on timing.

      • theguvnah

        huh? this is totally not true. lots of 1 br in all kinds of manhattan and brooklyn neighborhood now for under 2k.
        and like a million in JC and hoboken, please.

    • Anonymous

      Are there one bedrooms on the market for under $2000 in those areas now? I’d start by figuring out that answer. Because that budget sounds way low for what she is looking for. (And to the above comment, you’re correct, I’m in Jersey City and you can’t readily find a one bedroom for that price in any decent neighborhood).

    • Anon

      If budget is important I think she needs to look at both areas to maximize the chances of getting closer to her price.

    • NYNY

      She can definitely find a (very small) 1-bedroom in Hell’s Kitchen for <$2K now, maybe also parts of the Upper West Side, although possibly north of 90th street (although I prefer the area from 96th-114th over the area from 89th-96th). March is a gamble, but probably not a huge one, given the vacancy rates now. I'd advise she keep up with NYC real estate news on Streeteasy, Curbed, and Brick Underground for more intel.

      • Ellen

        I would think twice about being above 96th Street on the UWS. There are alot of new incidents being reported where people are being acosted on the streets by young hoodlums, going back a year to when that very pretty college freshman at Barnard was murdered for her cellphone, and continuing with more and more since the pandemic. Dad says he does NOT want to live anywhere near Colombia U, even tho he will be on loan there once COVID is over. There was another horrible story about an Asian musician that was beaten up by a bunch of thugs in the 135th Street Subway stop I think within the week, and there is also the City placing hundreds of homeless (some criminals and unstable) in a hotel on W. 79th street where they are peeing and pooping in the street and harassing locals, even tho they have free room and board. Then they just defaced Randy Mastro’s home on the East Side for representing a group that wanted to relocate them to a hotel on Wall Street. It is not politically correct to say any of this, but trust me, I would not live or work on the UWS as a woman unless you had a private security force (which of course we don’t). FOOEY!

    • Anon

      Do not move to Hell’s Kitchen now. The area is really struggling during covid with port authority and the surrounding blocks regressing in terms of Safety. Go uptown. And also a friend of mine once got a great deal signing a lease on Christmas Eve.

  14. Anon

    I’ve never bought anything from Patagonia before but I really like the look of the down sweater jacket. Can anyone speak to how their sizing runs? I am usually an XL in tops, size 14 with big b00bs.

      • Clementine

        Agreed. I’m pretty reliably a size 6 (Loft,Old Navy)/8 (JCrew, Banana Republic, Boden) and a Patagonia M fits me comfortably. It’s a bit bulkier in the torso which lets me fit a heavy sweater underneath without feeling constricted.

        (FWIW, I’m a Patagonia convert and now stalk off-season sales so all my kiddos have Patagonia coats, all purchased for 50% or more off.)

    • Anon

      In my experience, Patagonia runs a tick to the small size of average sizing. I would describe it as athletically sized. I usually size up, because I like my caual and outdoor clothes to be less fitted.

      • anne-on

        Same. It is definitely a bit smaller/snugger than other brands (LLBean for example). I usually get a small there, but I don’t tend to layer much under my jackets. I’m not curvy at all, so it’s not an issue for me, but they really don’t have an awful lot of roominess in the chest.

    • Anonymous

      I’m US 4 in Banana, Old Navy, Brooks Bros and J Crew (UK10) with big boobs (UK 28H) and I use Patagonia S for jackets that are meant for layering. I found that the true size-thingy on their website worked well for me.

      In other brands I have found that more fitted jackets will not work as well with the bust, especially with fabrics with no stretch, but have not tried fitted Patagonia.

    • Anon

      I love Patagonia, but as a short torsoed petite with big b00bs, there isn’t much that fits me well, since their tops are generally pretty fitted and too long for me. The one item I have that I absolutely adore is the nanopuff jacket, which is similar to the down sweater jacket. I first bought it in an L and then again in a M after losing weight. I currently wear a 36DDD bra and anywhere between a M and XL top at Banana, Old Navy, or LL Bean (all in petite, so sizing might be different). If you want to be able to wear it over sweaters, definitely go with XL, but you might be able to size down if you want it to be fitted and don’t have broad shoulders or long arms.

      • Anon

        HA! That explains why I like (most of) their sizing. I’m 5’8″ but have short legs and a long torso so finding things that are long enough on my hips isn’t always easy, and I’m not quite tall enough for most talls to fit well.

    • HW

      I am pear shaped and find their jackets, fleeces, etc to be too narrow in the hips.

    • Anon

      I found it kind of blocky shaped, kind of like LL Bean (short and wide torso) though LL Bean runs wider.

  15. Anonymous

    This board is so good with gift ideas and I could use some help with something for my husband. He basically buys everything he wants/needs but I’d like to do something a little special. He likes reading books, writing, chocolate, clothes (but he’s very picky), sports, and 80’s music. Any ideas?

    • Anon Probate Atty

      What is his favorite team? Get him an autographed helmet/jersey/poster from one of their most iconic coaches or players. If it’s a jersey ,frame it in a shadowbox to make it extra special.
      Also there are lots of books written about sports, and since he enjoys both sports and reading, that seems like a good gift. Do some searches on Amazon for the most highly-rated books about his favorite sport or team.
      Since he likes writing, maybe a really nice pen?
      80s music: fun t-shirts? Cool vinyl records if he has a record player? Or framed album covers from his favorite 80s bands?
      Some of these are smaller gifts but you could combine them together for a special experience.

      • Anon

        Mmmmm it has been so long. I might put this on my wish list. I used to work by the Ferry Building.

    • Anon

      The McCartney III album. Paul recorded it solo – plays all the instruments, does all the voices etc – during the pandemic.

  16. Anon

    Heartbroken. Out of state far away due to covid (went to family) and did all the right things. But my ballot never came in the mail. I’m high risk so I can’t get on a plane or drive for days to go in person which would also be risky. Not getting to vote and being caught in the net of keeping me from voting literally makes me ill. I am doing all I can with my voice in so many other ways, no worries there, but this is just horrible. Also, because it never arrived but says it was sent out almost a month ago, it looks the same in accounting as me forgetting to send it back or deciding I don’t care as it does that it never arrived for me to send back. This means there’s never going to be a count of how many are like me, sc3wed over by this intentional misuse of government to facilitate an unfair election. Sigh.

    Also, anyone who is still on the fence, unless we all vote to change this, we’ll never again have a just election where your favorite candidate can compete, so please please vote against 4 more years of this tyrant.

    • Anne

      If you are genuinely living with family now in your new location is there any change your new location has same day registration and you can vote there? You’d have to see what documentation you need to prove your address (and of course you have to actually be living there).

    • Anonymous

      If it arrives today or tomorrow, can you immediately overnight fed-ex it to someone in your voting location and have them bring it to a drop box for you? DH had to do this once for EU elections when he didn’t get his ballot in time for regular mail system.

    • Anon

      The President does not have any influence over how your state board of elections operates.

      Also, depending on your home state’s residency rules, you might not be eligible to vote. Call to see if you’ve been taken off the voter rolls, which can happen just by having your mail forwarded to another state.

      • Anon

        “The President does not have any influence over how your state board of elections operates.” Ha! I wish. Our president has done SO MUCH to undermine voting rights. He doesn’t have to have direct legal control over elections to have a major impact on election operations. Prime example: recnet Supreme Court rulings on ballots received after Nov. 3.

        • Anon

          The Supreme Court is requiring states to comply with their own state laws. They have had more than eight months to get ready for this. If the state’s emergency powers do not allow a governor or Secretary of State to make unilateral changes to the election operations, the Governor should have called the legislature into session.

          It’s not “voter rights” to violate state law. In fact, voters have a right to have the law followed so that their votes are not diluted.

    • Anon

      Are you in a battleground state? Look into whether a provisional ballot could be an option. Typically you can print them off and mail them back since your ballot didn’t arrive in time. You’d have to use like FedEx or UPS so it would arrive by election day. I would also call 1-866-OURVOTE to see if you have any other options. Don’t give up!

        • anonshmanon

          This is unreasonable. The right to vote is a fundamental democratic value and shouldn’t hinge on whether somebody is traveling at the time. It should be as accessible as possible.

          • Anon

            It doesn’t hinge on whether you are traveling or even if you received your requested ballot. There is already an established contingency plan for OP’s particular problem, the FWAB. It is as easy to access as this forum here, and if she were more interested in voting than confirming her own biases and getting attention for it on social media then she would have just searched it and done it.

          • cbackson

            Am I missing something? I thought FWAB was only for military and overseas citizens. The FVAP site says if you’re not military or overseas to contact your state board of elections.

        • Anon

          Correct. This post made me angrier than anything I have read on here in years. The “poor pitiful me” act is a great excuse for not doing everything possible to fix the situation. You are not a disenfranchised voter, OP, you’ve just tried nothing and you’re all out of ideas. Don’t ask me to feel sorry for you or excuse you from your inaction.

        • No Face

          I disagree. She requested her ballot so early that records show it was sent out a month ago. Americans should be able to expect mail to be delivered in less than one month, and the only reason we can’t is because of this administration’s intentional conduct at USPS.

  17. lina

    I’ve realized that because of my “violin hips” only high waist pants really fit me well and comfortably. I also don’t really like wearing pants, but live in a cold climate where they’re more usable, so the comfort part is important. The pants that fit me best are size 8 American Eagle high waisted pants – any style. Any suggestions for other brands, formal or casual, that fit similarly?

    • anne-on

      I’d check madewell’s high waisted jeans. Their roadtripper’s are my favorite and come in different waist heights. They do waist measurement sizing (25/26/27) so it helps to know what your normal size is, and then size down for the roadtrippers as they stretch.

  18. anon

    My CEO and VP of HR asked managers to submit topics for a future meeting. We just had our first ever with this group which includes senior leadership and the managers/directors in the next tier below. I asked if they could discuss managing during COVID/the general upheaval in the world. The CEO responded by saying he had nothing to offer on the topic but did leave an opening for me to come back with a more specific request.

    Ideas for rephrasing that is geared toward a highly analytical personality? What I want to say is that the world is on fire and it is taking a toll on staff and that we never address it but I can’t.

    • CHL

      Great that you’re thinking about this — a little disappointed that the VP of HR isn’t driving this, but whatever. HBR has had some good articles on this recently – they have a section on leading through a pandemic. Almost every management consulting firm also has some thought leadership, and there was recently an article in the WSJ about burnout. Maybe check those for language, stats, etc.? I had to explain to our head of HR that “Zoom Fatigue” was a thing. I think some executives are just extraordinary people who also are able to create extraordinary set ups for themselves and need some help finding the words, as you are doing.

      • anon

        Thank you for the thoughtful response. I will check out the HBR section. I sometimes I think I work for machines. They are doing tough work–we’ve had layoffs, furloughs, etc.–but we don’t make space to talk about the emotional and sometimes physical repercussions of the stress. I also supervise someone who is in active treatment for trauma (for no additional pay!) so I am keenly aware of the impact.

  19. Anon

    I know this has been discussed multiple times, but I can’t use the search function to save my life. Favorite fancy tea brands? I’d love to get some kind of fun mixed set to liven up these cold morning meetings.

    • Anon

      I bought a bunch of teas from Saratoga Tea and Honey when I was in Saratoga Springs and really enjoyed it. They ship nationally.

      • Curious

        Rishi tumeric ginger tea! We are on our second 1-pound bag in a year, and it will be gone by the end of the month. It is the second-best tea I ever had. (“Best” goes to a mate/ rooibos blend from Teavana that is now gone forever. RIP.)

    • Anon

      I don’t know a specific brand, but I’m enjoying butterfly pea flower tea lately (the one that changes color). So a set that includes that one may be fun.

      • Marie

        +1 and might I also suggest getting the advent calendar so you can open a new tea every day as a fun surprise for yourself?

    • anon

      TWG! If you’re in the States it’s a little harder to find/pricier, but well worth it if you want a nice treat.

  20. Low-stakes purchase

    Since I will still be WFH for the next months, I have decieded to get a microwave oven and be able to do more systematic freezer meals. Basically I want more flexibility and less time spent than having to defrost the day before to put in the oven.

    I have no experience with this appliance apart from a few uses on a workplace one to heat left-overs from home. Have never had access to one at home.

    Any advice about usage or smart functions worth considering when choosing one? I’m in Europe, so have not got all the US brands, but I’m thinking more about functions. I don’t know what I don’t know, and online tests and reviews assume more prior knowledge than I have.

    Left to my own devices I would just get someting super simple that can heat left overs and defrost freezer meals, that’s the main purpose of the purchase. Anything else that springs to mind that is super helpful or convenient?

    • Anonymous

      Nah microwaves aren’t complicated. Whatever is cheap and the right size is fine.

      • Anon

        +1 I’ve had them all my life and there are only two notably good things about my current microwave (I didn’t choose, I live in an apt): the +30 seconds button and the turntable.

    • Cat

      Just to set expectations — if you think you could take, say, a frozen brick of lasagna (or other dense casserole) and have an easy microwaved lunch from that, you are mistaken. It would take awhile and take multiple microwave settings (like first 5-10 minutes on ‘defrost’ then maybe cut it apart a little if you can and cook again, then on high a few minutes, etc).

      Microwaves are best for (1) meals designed to be microwaveable from frozen – like Lean Cuisine, (2) un-freezing things that are small or not dense, like bread for toasting (we keep our bagels in the freezer so they don’t go stale; 20 seconds in the microwave is enough to thaw them so they can be sliced and toasted), a few slices of meat, a serving of frozen vegetables, etc, or (3) warming food that is not frozen.

      • Anonymous

        One thing I do is decide on morning A what I will have on morning B and move that from the freezer to the refrigerator. Then is is thawed by lunch on day B.

        • Cat

          Totally agree – but OP’s issue is she doesn’t like having to plan to defrost, it sounds like… so I wanted to clarify that aspect for her :)

      • Low-stakes purchase

        That’s exactly the kind of thing I don’t know, that’s very helpful. Thank you!

        • Anon

          I freeze leftovers and when I want to eat them, I just put them in the fridge the night before so they’re thawed enough to heat up for lunch the next day. It’s not hard or complicated to remember to do this.

        • Anon

          I’m confused by Cat’s comment. I spent an entire month eating frozen lasagna for dinner. I think it was along the lines of a 5 to 8 minute cook time. Most leftovers heat up in 2ish minutes, so, yeah, it took longer but it was still easy (and very tasty). There is nothing that a microwave won’t defrost. The only catch is that it might cook it in the meantime.
          BUT–just in case you haven’t been told: no metal!

          • Cat

            I was just reacting to the goal of “no defrosting, easy lunch.” When husband & I want to heat up our frozen lasagna for dinner, it requires a lot less baby sitting in the microwave if we get it out in the afternoon to defrost. Otherwise it’s 8 mins on defrost, then cut it in half, then finish the warming, and at risk of drying out the top layer.

          • Anon

            I’m Anon at 12:25 and had a ‘duh!” moment after I wrote this. I eat for one. Not for two or four (or seven, which is how I grew up–but not with frozen meals bc they were too expensive). Running one piece of lasagna through the microwave is no big deal. An entire pan would be a different story. Sorry for the half-snark! My nerves are running a little thin this week.

        • Senior Attorney

          Just make sure you freeze things in single-serving sizes and you should be fine.

          Also, I’m pretty sure all microwaves are made in the same one or two factories in China and they’re all pretty much the same. Check out The Wirecutter for recommendations.

      • Thanks, it has pockets!

        When I was working in an office, I’d make a batch of something like chili, freeze some portions, and then as I go through the non-frozen portions, I start bring the frozen ones out so they have a day or two to defrost before I need them, and then heat them in the microwave. It’s fine if they’re still a little frozen in the middle, but I’d never take something out of the freezer and pop it right in the microwave unless it was designed to be prepared that way.

        I’m sure the time spent on public transit also helped some partially-frozen chili portions finish thawing. Those trains could get toasty in the winter!

    • Anon

      You can’t easily defrost many items, but I found it’s fairly easy to defrost a cut up chicken just enough to separate the pieces, then cook as usual. Same with a block of frozen fish, e.g. tilapia fillets. These uses are more geared to family than solo cooking.

      Liquids are easier – if you freeze soup in serving size containers, you could thaw and heat. And yes, reheating leftovers like pasta or rice dishes is a good use of a microwave.

      Also, thawing frozen bagels, baking potatoes (though they come out a little more steamed than if baked in the oven), and making popcorn from kernels in a paper bag.

    • Low-stakes purchase

      OP here – thank you everybody! This is all super helpful to me.

      I absolutely agree that it would be better to plan or defrost meals the day (or days) before. That’s normally my ambition, but this year has shown me that I’m not very good at it, so the option of homemade from frozen or nearly frozen was something I’ve hoped for. I can live with 10 min defrost + and then heating, that will be an improvement for sure.

      And thank you for the metal reminder – I knew about aluminium, but didn’t think about other metals. My only dinner plates are from an old thrift store set with some gold trim, so I guess I need a couple of microwavable plates.

      • Anon

        Eh, maybe or maybe not. If you do, stick to ceramic. Heating up plastic is no bueno when it’s touching your food.

  21. Agurk

    Following up on yesterday, how warm is the Pranayama wrap? Is it sweatshirt warm? If not, does anyone have a recommendation for something similar that is warm? Just moved to MA from CA and it is already snowing….

    • MA

      Ha. Welcome. Life-long Bostonian now in the ‘burbs, and even for me this snow today is a bit much. We’re 10 miles north of the city and I just had to run out to pick up a prescription. The roads are horrendous.

      No opinions on the wrap but I will soon – just bought one for a bday present to myself!

    • Anokha

      It’s not sweatshirt warm. Think somewhere in between a long-sleeved shirt and sweatshirt in terms of warmth.

  22. Anon

    Any ladies on here work at small firms and have thoughts you are willing to share on it? I’m interviewing for a counsel position at a small, fairly new litigation boutique (opened last year, only about 10 lawyers total). The job will be fully remote (I live in a small town and the firm is in a nearby larger city). I have a final interview today and they should get back to me shortly. Would love advice on negotiating salary (firm is in a VHCOL city), accommodations for setting up a remote office as well as things you wish you knew before working at a small firm.

    • Anonymous

      At a small place, it’s much more about fit than anything else. (Well, that and what business you can bring with you, but mostly fit.)

      • Anonymous

        Are you bringing enough business to fill your plate or will you be expecting work from the partners? If the later make sure you that this firm has enough senior level work (and that it is work that you actually want to do) so you don’t get stuck with the overflow. I would also want to know how many of the lawyers worked together before joining this firm. In a small office that may have a substantially impact on your ability to get good work even if those attorneys have less experience because the partners have preexisting relationships with those junior people so those junior people essentially outrank you.

    • Ellen

      Whatever market rate is in the HCOL city should be your salary goal. Don’t sell yourself cheap, or get your dad to negotiate final details. You will eventually have to commute if you don’t move, so factor this time/cost in. You can also ask for an allowance for WFH equipment if they don’t mention it; you dont want to be sitting all day at your kitchen table. Get a decent ergonomic chair with a good soft cushion, and make sure you get a 27″ monitor if not larger, so that you don’t go blind, even if they provide one at work, as you will be working your tuchus off and don’t want to stay late at the office, once the COVID is over. Finally, make sure you are aware of any details on the other partners, as you don’t want to work for a guy who just is interested in you for unwanted s-xual purposes. Good luck to you!

    • Anon

      I would want to know more about how work is going to be distributed if you are remote. I am at a small firm where everyone is very close and gets along well, and I like everyone I work with. However, I am a newish lateral to the firm and because of my background and the nature of the firm, I am not assigned to any one specific type of work for the firm or any one specific partner, so I don’t have a steady pipeline of work. This is completely fine when we are in the office, but when we were remote, I often felt like I was being left out of discussions, etc. Also, now that we are semi back in the office, but I am staying home more due to a health condition, I definitely feel like I have to work more to fit in with the culture and get work assignments, etc.

  23. Bonnie Kate

    I really want to like these pants, because I’d love to have a very comfortable casual pant option for my very casual office to wear in the winter. In the summer when I’m having anti-pants/jeans days, I wear a dress. But I hate all kinds of pantyhose/etc, so wearing a dress in the winter is never going to happen. So these would fill a nice niche in my closet.

    But these…I just do not like them. I think they’d be better in colors? In black and grey they just look like very sloppy wannabe formal pants to me. Anyone have any good alternative recommendations?

    • No Face

      I have several pull on stretchy pants from Macy’s that look great and are very comfortable. Charter Club or Alfani brands.

    • Anon

      I agree, maybe they’re styled poorly but they’re so frumpy. They look like one of the befores on that old What Not To Wear show.

  25. CHL

    Does anyone have flameless candles that they like? So many option and price points!

    • Anonymous

      They use Mystique brand candles at Colonial Williamsburg, and we were actually shocked when we found out they weren’t real. They look extremely real from afar. Closer up, its a bit more obvious. We almost bought some at the gift shop since we were so surprised.

  26. lina

    Speaking of nail polish color – any suggestions for an election night blue? Like the blue-from-the-American-flag?

    • Ribena

      Do you get Rimmel nail polish? I bought Danny Boy Blue as an EU-flag-blue in 2016 and I think the two blues are very similar.

  27. LL Bean Fisherman Sweater

    Does anyone have the LL Bean fisherman sweater and can comment if it softens up with time? I ordered it and love the colour and detail, but it feels very stiff to me and i’m thinking of retuning it. I’ll keep it if it will soften with wearing and washing, though.

    Thanks!

    • Other Sweater Wearer

      My other cotton sweaters from LL Bean have softened over time/washings. I also just got a fisherman sweater from there and mine is also a bit stiff, but comfy!

    • pugsnbourbon

      I find that wool laundry balls do a good job of softening up tough sweaters.

    • cbackson

      It softens a bit but not totally. I’ve had mine for 3 years and love it but it does still have a heavy and slightly stiff feeling

  28. Anon

    I recently discovered a long lost cousin here in my city. We’ve gotten together twice and…it’s a bit awkward. We’re both the only living members of our parents’ family, and I think we’re just both aware of a lot of pressure and that we should be close. It’s my turn to host (outdoors, distanced) and I’m struggling to think of conversation topics and even what to cook.

    Our parents immigrated to the US in the ’60s after their parents died in their home country. My father died when I was a toddler and my mom lost touch with his sister, my cousin’s mom. I was raised by my American mom in American ways, and my cousin was raised by her immigrant mom (who met and married an immigrant here in the US) in the old country’s ways. My cousin’s mom died a few years ago. My cousin also married an immigrant from the old country, and so her life is very old country. I married just a regular American guy and live a very American life.

    This should be fun and happy, especially because at the core, both of us are excited to have found relatives since our families are small and we’re the only connection the other has to our parent, but…it’s just awkward and kinda tense. So, any tips on what to cook and what to chat about? Also, any tips on somewhere good to make copies of literally irreplaceable old photos? We went over photo albums in the previous two visits, so that’s been done. I’d like to give her copies of the photos I have.

    • Anonymous

      Since she’s familiar with the part of your family’s culture that you don’t know a lot about, I’d just ask her about some of those aspects. What’s a favorite traditional meal that her mom cooked that your cousin loved? Was there something traditional that she doesn’t like? What’s her favorite traditional thing to cook now? Maybe you can swap recipes. She might have some recipes from her mom that your shared grandmother made for your Dad. Food is always a great way Did your aunt like cooking or baking? What were her favorite things to make?

      You can also ask her about any stories her mom told her about what it was like growing up in the old country. Those stories may be routine to her but you wouldn’t know them where your Dad passed away so young.

      Or music? Are there any traditional instruments in the culture that your cousin or her mom played? Did they enjoy singing, any favorite or family traditional songs?

      • anonyK

        Agree with this- using her as your only source of info about your dad’s life, childhood, family background. Also, just because you are family doesn’t mean you will be instant besties. So try not to expect to feel familial closeness with a virtual stranger right away- maybe that will take some of the pressure off your interactions. Family ties are built over a long period of time. Prioritize keeping in touch and getting to know each other and give the relationship time to develop and grow.

        • Anon 11:46

          +1
          I didn’t bring it out enough in my comment but don’t expect to be besties. I’m not that close with my cousins and we grew up together and get along well. Expect to see her casually to chat/reminisce about childhood/shared culture. My suggestions were more meant as ice breakers if you’re stuck for conversation.

    • Anon

      No real advice, but just here to say that it sounds like you (both of you?) are putting a lot of pressure on yourselves. I certainly understand the excitement of finding a familial connection – no question about that. But, it’s also a very reasonable outcome if you become acquaintances at best. Maybe think about expectation setting as it relates to the long-term relationship, and with some pressure removed it will flow a little more naturally?

    • Anonie

      Watch a movie or start a new TV show together. Play a board game. Order in some yummy food. Don’t make this some huge to-do. Smart small so it feels more natural. Eventually, invite your cousin to meet some of your other friends so that she becomes more of a natural part of your life/social circle.

      I agree with the commentor who says that it sounds like you’ve been placing too much pressure and too many obligations on this new friendship. These get-togethers won’t last if they feel like interviews. Have fun together!!

    • Anon

      Lord knows that just because someone is family doesn’t mean you have to be BFFs or spend lots of quality time together.

  29. Thanks, it has pockets!

    Meat eaters, let’s talk about meat delivery services. I took advantage of a great offer from Omaha Steaks and now, unfortunately, I’m hooked. Meat delivery is so convenient! But Omaha is obviously known for being pricey, and they don’t have any special deals that look particularly tempting right now. Are there similar companies that cost a bit less? Does anyone do a monthly, subscription-based service (like Butcher Box) they swear by? I’m not interested in meal kits, just meat.

      • Lilau

        +1
        We get grass fed meat and eggs delivered from a local-ish farm (ranch?). The meat comes frozen and we like it a lot. It’s not quite like Omaha steaks though: you get what you get. This can be amazing (delicious sausage we never would have asked for) or challenging (what to do with a strange cut of beef?). But generally we like it a lot. We get my grandmother Omaha steaks for Hanukkah every year; she’s partial to filet mignon and loves it.

        • Thanks, it has pockets!

          We did get on the waiting list for Walden Meats, which is local to our area. We liked it because the prices were good and the delivery materials were returnable/reusable. We may do a few months with Butcher Box though, while we wait for our Walden account to activate. BB is also local (I think) but right now their intro deal is a free turkey, and honestly, even if we do end up doing Thanksgiving at home, a turkey is too big for the two of us! I’d rather wait until the intro freebie is something we’ll actually use.

          • Lilau

            I actually think we have Walden farms-hold on. Yup! Thats the name on the small brisket currently defrosting. Hope you get off the waitlist soon internet friend!

    • Anonie

      No recommendations but 1) YUMM and 2) check out options from your local/regional butchershops. Could be a great way to support small business!

    • anomanom

      you can check out Hamilton Meats based in SoCal, they do delivery and boxes, although I don’t think subscriptions.

    • Walnut

      Do you have room for a bulk meat purchase? It takes some searching, but I’m sure there are local farmers who sell full, half or quarters of their beef/pork. You’ll buy the meat from the farmer and pay the butcher for processing. The price is usually better than grocery store, you support two local businesses and having a stocked freezer is nice. I was able to fit a 1/4 beef in my regular freezer and recently upgraded to a small chest freezer to keep both pork and beef. It was a godsend during the food scarcity days of the pandemic.

    • FP

      Porter Road Butcher is based in Nashville but has national shipping and I believe subscriptions. However, they will likely be pricier than Omaha Steaks – but amazing quality!

    • Anon

      I use Butcher Box. If you’re in Texas, look at Farmhouse Delivery as well. They do meals but also other stuff like meat, veggies, etc.

      • Anon

        PS Sorry, I didn’t see you mentioned Butcher Box. I don’t let it come monthly because I can’t use that much and I also only get chicken breasts from them plus the “two free lbs of ground beef” I get with every box. The chicken was price competitive for my grocery store but other things weren’t–especially bacon, for some reason. It’s been easy to use and keeps my freezer stocked w chicken. The chicken comes in a triple-set of 1-2 lb. I think I get six of those plus the two pounds of beef for $149/box. Not terrible.

  30. Anonymous

    My husband constantly interrupts me. He assumes what I’m about to say next and jumps in to respond, but he’s wrong (what feels like) 99% of the time. Then he says I’m being aggressive and mean when I get upset at being interrupted. It’s a multiple times a day occurrence. I have tried the Kamala Harris “I’m speaking”, and it makes him “feel attacked”. He says “I’m not interrupting I’m just talking” (cue eyes rolling into back of head permanently). This man works in Big 4 accounting and I cringe thinking of how the women he works with feel, especially since he denies this behavior is a problem at work. Any advice? Commiseration? I don’t want to be interrupted, I also don’t want to bicker about it every time it happens. I’m going insane.

    • Ellen

      It sounds like you married a real d*ck. He must have not been this way initially, or you didn’t see it with your rose colored glasses on, but you need to put a stop to this b/f you go nuts. I would bring a third party in and have that person witness hubby in action, and then step in and tell him he is acting like a know-it-all d*ck which will not bode well for him in the bedroom with you unless he cuts out the bull$hit! I wishi I had done this early on with Sheketovits, not that it would have mattered, but I would not have been taken advantage of and had to do all this stuff I was not comfortable doing for him just to retain him as my boyfreind. FOOEY on him!

    • Go for it

      I hate to say it.. couples therapy with a male. It sounds like he needs another man to check him on this. That sounds painful, and would make me stabby.

    • Anonymous

      Since you’ve already spoken to him about the issue, I’d walk away every single time he does it. He’s not prepared to listen to you? Then, you are not prepared to listen to him. When he’s ready to let you finish, you will come back.

      Tell him if he’s not sure if you’re done then he needs to ask ‘are you finished?’ before he starts talking. And honestly, counseling. Because continuing to interrupt you have you have raised the issue is disrespectful. Disrespect is one of Gottman’s 4 horses of divorce.

      • Vicky Austin

        +1 – you need to set a boundary. “If you continue to speak while I am speaking, the conversation will be over.” (I’d say ‘speak while I am speaking’ so he can’t pull his ‘not interrupting just talking’ nonsense, which is ridiculous.)

    • Anonymous

      Mine has been doing this as well. I wait for him to finish and then suggest something completely absurd as what I was actually going to say. It makes him laugh and back off.

    • Lilau

      If you’ve already explained why this is rude and hurtful, not that you should have to, and he continues he doesn’t care and he isn’t going to change. My husband has a tendency to get excited about a conversation and sort of “talk over” others, especially women. He’s working on it because he knows it’s rude. I have no problem reminding him as he’s doing it to my or someone else. My four year old had the best response though: he tearfully yells “Daddy! You’re stepping on my words!”

    • CountC

      Oh gosh, my tendency is to do this and I have to work REALLY hard to KEEP. MY. MOUTH. SHUT. and let the other person finish. I am far better at it than I used to be, but it still happens from time to time. However, because I am self-aware (now), I always recognize that I interrupted the person and apologize and refocus on stopping myself from doing it. Honestly, my instinct is to do it because it feels helpful, it shows I am paying attention, and I want the conversation to move along. Obviously, it does none of those things!!!

      Since he already won’t listen to you when you try to talk to him about it, I echo the therapy suggestions. I had to have a come to Jesus moment with a partner combined with therapy to open my eyes to how disrespectful and annoying it is. Still not perfect at it, but definitely trying. Good luck!

    • Anon

      My husband does this because his ADD medication interfered with his kidney medication, so he had to stop taking it.

      After a lot of arguing, we developed a signal for private conversations at home. I hold my hand in the air while I’m speaking (like you would if you were going in for a face-level high five) and only lower the hand back to my side when I’m finished speaking and ready for input. Obviously this looks weird and we don’t do it in public, but we wouldn’t argue in public either, so it’s helping.

      • Anon

        This is me off ADHD meds, and yes the hand thing helps. The part of my brain that controls when I speak engages after part of the brain that produces speech.

    • Anonymous

      Oh man, if he’s like that with his wife I shudder to think of how his female colleagues are treated

  31. Anon for this

    I don’t really like my husband. We’ve been married for over 20 years and he’s made a lot of improvement over time but I think I’m just over it. Is that wrong?

    We’ve been to a few rounds of counseling, but most of the “work” ends up focusing on things my husband can improve. He is poor at recognizing his emotions. He is poor at even recognizing that he *has* emotions. At least 90% of his demonstrated emotions are either anger or flat affect/nothing. He doesn’t really interact with anyone unless he has to – he does manage to show (mostly) the appropriate engagement at work and is quite successful (although I think his employers have been willing to overlook a bit of oddness due to his strong technical skills and high intelligence, it’s also acceptable in his field).

    He doesn’t have any friends. He ignores his own family when they come to visit and rarely initiates contact with them to they point where they became extremely upset and mostly don’t visit. (This isn’t due to any desire to cut off contact or a bad childhood.)

    I’ve considered that he may have depression so he agreed to visit his doctor and a psychologist but they didn’t conclude he has depression. I’ve wondered if he has some for of autism – although I know, for example, that Asperger’s isn’t a recognized diagnosis these days.

    He will do the tasks that I ask him to do. If I get upset, he will analyze why and then try to implement a solution. But I receive NO emotional support. There is no fun or lightness or enjoyment.

    Is this fixable? More counseling? Something else?

    • anon

      It sounds like you want to leave and that’s ok. You don’t have to stay, even if he does have autism or depression or some sort of “fixable” diagnosis.

      • Anon for this

        Thanks. I somehow feel like I “owe” it to him, as my spouse who, frankly, would never leave me and to our children to figure out how to fix this. But I’m not sure this is fixable in a way that would let me be happy. And that seems…selfish.

        • Anon

          In a way, you do owe him. I think this question is a bigger philosophical dilemna about divorce. Some people feel their marriage vow is sacred, sickness and health, no matter what, even abuse. Other people feel that “fault” grounds let them out of their marriage vows. Abuse, infidelity, etc. Other people feel if you are unhappy, that is grounds for divorce.

          Legally, most states let you get divorced for any reason. Then the issue becomes just a personal dilemma for when you think breaking your marriage vow is okay. I don’t mean this to sound harsh. I’m trying to find a way to word it more positively. What it means is different to each person. If you have been to counseling a few times, it sounds like you really tried.

          • Anon

            You could argue that he is not upholding vows by not ever offering any emotional support.

          • Anon

            I think part of it is also how we define happiness or what value we place on it. I think certain times of my life have been easier for me because I am okay with having priorities other than happiness, whereas pressure to be happy or to make the most happiness inducing decisions is counterproductive for me. Not everyone experiences life this way either.

          • Anon for this

            Thanks. I think the philosophical dilemma is what I struggle with. Hearing others thoughts is helpful in thinking through this.

        • Anon

          I guess it depends on how you see marriage and the way it constitutes family. Reading this, I couldn’t tell how it doesn’t fall into “for better or worse.” You’ve said he’s gotten better, not worse, over time, so I can’t tell what’s changed from the time when you did want to be with him, and to me it seems normal to go through times when I don’t like my partner or need a break. I do hear that you feel burned out and done and aren’t getting what you need though.

          • Anon for this

            To avoid muddying the waters, I didn’t go into our looong history but “better” still isn’t good, it’s just better than awful. My husband was actually mentally and occasionally physically abusive in the beginning of our marriage and he has overcome that, so I feel like I have to give him credit for those improvements. I just think that I may never like him as a person and maybe that’s a me problem.

          • Anon

            Okay a history of abuse changes my perspective on this a lot. I think not liking someone who used to abuse you but changed is probably not a “me problem.” I think it probably has a lot more to do with that history.

          • Anon

            I am not sure how to say this, but your words “I feel like I have to give him credit for these improvements” really concern me and make me wonder if the abusive dynamic in the relationship has really ended, even if he’s behaving differently now.

        • Anon

          It’s not selfish to want to be happy. If the divorce can be amicable (sounds like he wouldn’t be vengeful or super angry), the kids will do fine.

          BTW, Asperger’s is no longer a thing because it is just called autism now. It’s a moot point if you don’t want to stay anyway.

          • Anon for this

            Part of the problem is that I don’t know if the divorce would be amicable. He is adamantly opposed to divorce. He doesn’t care about money or even the custody allocation, he just doesn’t want to get divorced. I haven’t been able to get him to articulate why. And I haven’t been able to get him to articulate what a good marriage would look like to him and how ours measures up to that standard.

    • Anon

      Sounds like my ex. I left and I am now much happier. I don’t get the sense that he has changed.

    • anonyK

      It’s not wrong to think about leaving. You don’t mention your kids much and how they/parenting factor into your relationship. But in any event, have you had counseling on your own to work through your own feelings about the relationship and possibly leaving it? Since most of your couples counseling focused on your husband, it sounds like it would help for you to have someone to bounce these ideas and feelings off of who would just be focused on you. That is the next step I would suggest. Obviously it is a big decision especially with kids involved, so I would try to find a real life person for you to talk this through with.

      Outside of counseling, do you have family/friend relationships that provide the emotional support you don’t get from your husband? There might be ways to have all your needs met without leaving and I think that is worth considering also.

      Re the lack of fun/lightness, it’s hard to tell if it was always this way and you are just now realizing it, or if you guys have fallen into a rut because of the treadmill of work/parenting/life obligations/lack of novelty. If the former, that seems less fixable than the latter.

    • Anon

      About Aspergers: it was folded into ASD; it’s still a thing, it just has a different name. Some psychologists are misinformed about this and think that successful adults cannot have ASD even if they could have Aspergers, but this isn’t the case at all. If he has deficits like alexithymia affecting relationships, he would absolutely qualify for Dx despite career success.

    • Senior Attorney

      I agree that you completely get to leave if you are unhappy in your marriage. I did and it was the best thing I ever did.

      Have you read The Journal of Best Practices by David Finch? He’s a journalist (I think) with Asperger’s (back when that was a thing) and it’s about how he figured out how to be more supportive of his wife. If your husband were willing to do something similar, that might be one last chance.

      • Anon for this

        Yes, I read that! I was hoping it would help more but the writer seemed much more engaged and self-aware than my husband.

    • Anon

      I think you want permission to leave and you have mine. What it took for me was my own counselor to help me realize how deeply I was feeling it.

      I also needed to know when other people knew it was time to get divorced and she said something that has always stuck with me – most people wait way too long. They wait until they’re so completely miserable that it’s obviously the only option.

      My husband had not only made me feel like all of his disappointments in life, including in his job, were my fault, but that I was completely unloveable and no one but him would ever want me.

      I didn’t realize how much of that was coming from him and not me until he wasn’t in my life. And being unattractive… well I had lots and lots of dates and lots of interest before I met my current husband so I guess it wasn’t true entirely.

      • Anon

        I also want to remind you that you don’t get to do life over. You have one life. You’re wasting precious years of it being unhappy and trying to fix something that seems to be unfixable. Give yourself a break. Don’t spend your remaining years unhappy. That’s wasting your life.

        • Anon for this

          Thanks, I think the pandemic has really made me realize this – I only have one life and there are no do overs. It has made me really question why I have stayed this long and if things will ever get better.

          For the poster who asked about how parenting factors in, my husband doesn’t do much. He won’t participate in family game night, he said we should even bother getting him a bike for family bikes rides bc he won’t go (when I hunted down bikes for everyone), he doesn’t really hang out with the kids, he doesn’t supervise any of their day-to-day needs. (Wow -reading this makes me realize how very, very little he does.) He doesn’t prioritize family time is probably the best summary.

          • Thoughs

            I completely missed the post about him being abusive early on in the relationship and “you should give him credit for improving.”

            No, you don’t. Why are you putting up with this cycle of abuse and manipulation?

            Yes, it will be hard to leave him. Yes, divorce esp when he’s vehemently opposed to it will be hard, but it will be a temporary hardship compared to the last 20 years. Incremental changes do not equal real lasting change that puts you and your relationship first in his list of priorities.

            You deserve better. Your kids deserve better.

    • Thoughts

      “He’s made a lot of improvement over the years.” That implies that his lack of emotional connection and attachment was a known issue and you decided to take it on when you first married him, and now after 20 years, have realized that is a fool’s errand. Or that you didn’t know the extent of it at the onset and just know realizing what you have lived with for so long. Which is it? Something else?

      As I was writing your post, I kept coming back – why did she even marry him in the first place? Presumably there were some redeemable qualities that made you overlook (or miss?) the emotional detachment to marry him. Reflecting on why you married him might help you decide whether those qualities are still there and you want to work on the marriage and relationship because they are reasons to stay together rather than separate. However, if those qualities don’t matter anymore or are now overshadowed by these issues, then yes, you have this stranger’s implicit permission to decide this is not fixable and leave.

      One last note – I lost my father a year ago to a terminal illness. Having seen him through that illness, and the strong bond that my mother and he had, and now how the stresses of the pandemic and parenting and working have impacted my own marriage, there is a LOT to be said for the fun and lightness and enjoyment in a relationship. Sometimes for some people I think happiness is an elusive goal that seems too hard. But fun and enjoyment aren’t…every relationship goes through temporary cycles. But in the aggregate – despite the rough periods – if you’re not having fun with your partner, it’s not worth it.

      • Anon for this

        We were fairly young when we got married and a lot of these problems were hidden due to our lifestyle and also having different priorities. When it was just the two of us and we were working and traveling a lot, the lack of connection with other people seemed reasonably in light of how busy we were. Without children and spending far less time together with no real responsibilities other than our respective careers, our free time was spent dining out, seeing movies and other activities that fit in around our careers. As we got older, settled down and had children, the importance of friendship, being emotionally supportive and being an emotionally-engaged parent came to the forefront and I could see the lack of his abilities in these areas. The stress also brought out some not great behaviors in my husband, which added to the mix.

        So now, I’d say that between obviousness of my husband’s short comings does not outweigh him being a good travel partner who also enjoys eating out and going to museums.

        I guess part of me just wonders if this is just what marriage and parenthood are.

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