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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: The Perfect Pant

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A woman wearing a grey blouse and gray grid printed wide leg pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Spanx has come out with a shockingly fantastic pant collection in the last few years, but they’ve typically only been available in solids or subdued stripes. This plaid colorway is something of a departure, and I couldn’t be more excited.

I’ve found that they run pretty true to size, although a bit snug in the waist (by design).

The pants are $178 at Neiman Marcus and come in sizes XS–XL.

Two more affordable alternatives (without the shapewear aspect) are from 1.State ($46.97 on sale; lucky sizes) and Nordstrom ($77.35 on sale; 18–24).

Psst: check out our latest thoughts on the best trouser lengths for women!

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

288 Comments

  1. Way to go Ohio and Kentucky!!!

    As a fellow red state liberal, I love to see Democratic victories in red states. It CAN be done.

    1. Such great news! I have been really impressed with the current victories protecting women’s rights and also heartened by the longer term trend of Medicaid expansion in red states. And by the recent unionizing successes.

    6. I’m in Ohio and both me and my husband voted yes for Issue 1 and 2 (legalization of marijuana). I was definitely worried about Issue 1 after seeing a lot of “no” signs and some houses out in the country still have Trump signs outside.

      1. I’m a former Ohioan and my contacts there lean more old school Republican. They saw issues 1 and 2 as a victory for individual freedom, in keeping with a libertarian outlook.

      2. Also in Ohio – and same! But the population in the country is very sparse. My suburb also soundly defeated the Moms of Liberty candidates for school board, even though their signs were everywhere/

    7. the Ohio GOP legislature are all scam artists – heavily gerrymandered. They’re already talking about how they can repeal both abortion and weed.

  2. Super cute pant, they are available in plus size at nordstroms in case you need that option

    1. + 1 Fun pick. I didn’t know Spanx did anything other than leggings. I just took a look and there are also some other good options for workwear that aren’t plaid.

  3. I’m going to Mexico City for a girls’ trip with three friends next spring. Looking at Airbnbs in Condesa and Roma, but would love recs on actual B&Bs or another type of unique lodging, or in another neighborhood. And welcome any other recs for restaurants, bars and activities. TIA!

    1. I’m generally fine with Airbnb, but I absolutely would only stay in a hotel in Mexico City.

      1. Same. I’m a travel security professional and I also would only stay in a hotel in Mexico.

    2. The Red Tree House in Condesa is my top choice. It is an actual B&B/small hotel with wonderful rooms, friendly hosts, an a fun inside patio for breakfasts and evening happy hours. Have a great time in CDMX!

    3. I stayed in a really nice airbnb in Mexico City (Roma specifically) some years ago. I disagree you absolutely need to stay in a hotel. Obviously a hotel will have more amenities but if you prefer to live like a local (and have a kitchen/laundry), then I think airbnb is a good option.

      1. This isn’t a question of amenities, it’s a question of safety. Can you stay in an airbnb and not get robbed, kidnapped, or followed inside? Yes, the odds are more likely than not that nothing will happen. But the odds are still much higher than what you experience in the US, and you are a foreigner without the local contacts to draw in in case of emergency.

        1. Agree. I won’t do BnB abroad anywhere. I have a (pretty darn travel-savvy) family member with an insanely scary story from Florence in a BnB that had 5-star ratings. Not a risk I’m willing to take, and I’m hardly risk-adverse.

    4. We had the most amazing ramen (I know, eating ramen in Mexico) in KOKU (close to Angel de la Independencia). Also Kimasu in Roma had great ramen.
      I have stayed in a small hotel (Sonder Roma). We have only been there for one night/two days before moving to the coast. It was well equipped and clean, helpful staff, safe, you couldn’t hear noise at night, but it wasn’t a treat/IG-type of a place.
      I would prefer to stay in a hotel/small B&B, to be honest.

  4. Holiday Cards: we send them out, either Hanukkah-themed or welcome the new year-themed, every year. By now, we are usually adressing and stamping them (meaning I ordered them in September), but we are late this year. So I find myself looking at potential cards in the middle of a war and a wave of increasingly violent antisemitism and thinking, what kind of greeting could possibly be appropriate? Any thoughts?

    1. Are you sending cards to antisemites? Even then, they could use a reminder that you’re a real person with a life and feelings and dreams. Hanukah card all the way.

      1. Agree – I don’t know how Hanukka cards could possibly be offensive. If they are, those recipients aren’t friends

        1. Why would you wish someone who is not Jewish a “happy Hanukkah”? War or no war.
          My Jewish friends are often offended by being wished a Merry Christmas.

          1. Oh dear.

            I think a lot of Jewish people are offended by the default assumption that everyone celebrates Christmas, especially in a religious sense. This feeling is probably compounded because it’s really not just this one time of year, and also the Jesus imagery (at least in my area) really really dominates in December.

            But also, if a person celebrates Christmas, they should be able to send a card that says “Merry Christmas,” to be honest. Same with Hanukkah. It’s the holiday that she is observing, so it’s appropriate for her to wish her friends and family well for that holiday. That is way different from just existing in the world and having strangers talk to you about Jesus for two months.

          2. Different Anon but I order happy holidays cards for this reason, or if I’m super late, happy new years cards (it has happened).

          3. @10:44
            So the message is for the benefit of the person giving the message and not for the benefit of the recipient? That had never occurred to me. As a person who is anti-religion, that perspective makes it all seem like proselytizing and puts me even more in the camp of “the only appropriate holiday greeting is a generic greeting.”

          4. Anon @ 2:20– I’m not saying that a holiday card is an attempt to convert anyone. I guess at the end of the day, the cards I send are to family and friends. The cards I receive are from family and friends. So, I assume their good intentions by understanding the spirit with which they sent the message— that they want me to have a lovely winter holiday.

            For these same reasons, I don’t like when strangers say anything other than a generic holiday greeting, because I don’t know them and they don’t know me.

            I’m atheist, btw!

          5. @1:35
            That makes sense and I agree that is the best way to receive the message. Lots of people would spend the season being less disgruntled if they could do the same.

          1. Secular, Christmas-loving Catholic here, and I’d never be offended by receiving a Happy Hanukkah card. I’m delighted to see photos of your kids/dog/house regardless of your holiday or choice. Much as I very much enjoy attending a friend’s Hanukkah party each year. If I manage to send cards myself, I tend to lean toward the Peace on Earth type cards for the reasons outlined by Anon at 10:44.

        3. I’m always pleased and touched to get Happy Hanukkah cards as a thoroughly secular, mostly cultural Episcopalian. To me, it says my Jewish friends want to keep in touch. And I love the Hanukkah story, which I first learned when I found the All of a Kind family books in my local library. Do what makes you happiest and least stressed this season.

    2. Wishing for peace, hope, and joy for your family and the world, with love Karen and Steve.

    3. I love the Peace on Earth type greetings. Or wishing you love and peace or something similar.

      In 2020 our note on the back of our card acknowledged it had been a hard year and that we were hoping for better times ahead. Maybe something like that?

      1. To each their own, but I don’t like those bland statements when there is something really specific going on in the world that should be acknowledged. It feels like erasure.

          1. Perhaps not, but good people shouldn’t turn their noses up at “happy Hanukkah” either.

        2. Right, so you could have a “peace on earth” or similar message on the front of your card, and then on the back you could address the war more specifically in your message. I’m assuming OP doesn’t want to make the front of their holiday greeting card something about the war. I also think that depending on the recipient list, getting too specific could risk alienating folks.

        3. Good grief. We just talked the other day on here about how statements from universities and employers feel performative. Now you’re assigning an obligation to address global horrors on holiday cards?

          OP, the people on your card list know and care about you. Send a Happy Hanukkah / peace on earth / best wishes for 2024 card that makes your heart happy. FWIW, I’m disturbed enough by the wars that I’m thinking of choosing a peace on earth sentiment this year myself.

          1. It’s not pressure to make a performative statement. OP asked about saying happy Hanukkah like she often does. If she’s feeling intimidated or like she can’t say that, that’s a problem and it’s OK to say so.

          2. I didn’t read OP’s question as in she personally feels intimidated, but that this time is so fraught and devastating and an acute crisis for Jewish people, that ‘Happy Hanukkah’ maybe feels a little tone deaf? I felt that’s where OP was coming from.

      2. This is what I’d do as well.

        I take your question to mean that it feels like the year is too heavy to send a lighthearted card, right? I think a “peace” type card is a good balance between acknowledging sadness in the world but sharing a message of hope that feels appropriate for the season.

        2. OP here. Anon @ 10:23 nailed my question. It seems too “fluffy” to be sending the kind of card I usually select (Best Wishes for 202X and some picture of us doing something fun and laughing — usually in Hanukkah colors of blue/white/silver but not with Hanukkah words or symbols). This year is heavy, and it seems to be calling for something more serious.

          FWIW I am not concerned about offending people with whatever I select. Neither am I concerned about it being unsafe (either physical security or psychological safety) to send a Jewish-themed card). Although I appreciate the comments relating to those concerns.

          Thanks.

    4. I’m sorry. Minted has a section of Peace cards if that’s a good fit (some are Christian themed but many are not). You can also personalize many of theirs cards – I think the Modern Star of David card would be a great one to personalize with a message that feels right to you.

    5. We’re Jewish too and it’s too much pressure to get cards out early so we just do Happy Holidays and call it a day.

    6. Every year my holiday cards have Peace on them. This is a time of reflection, celebration and family. Peace is hard to achieve, at home, at work and globally.

    7. I buy dollar store cards and alternate between ‘season’s greetings’ and ‘happy holidays’, depending on which illustration I like best. I think those are always appropriate.

    8. In keeping with the Hanukkah theme, something like “Wishing you all peace and light in the new year” or something like that? I think the tone you want is loving and hopeful, but not too “yay everything is great”! But I would still do a picture of you all smiling, in whatever context feels appropriate.

    10. Can you give yourself permission to say, you know, this is a hard time, I am going to take this task off my plate for this year? Holiday cards aren’t mandatory and if they are causing you mental distress, I think it’s okay to give yourself permission to say, you know, we’re going to take this year off. Your friends and family will love you all the same.

  5. I had a really weird experience at the polls yesterday. I walked up to the table and the poll worker next to the poll worker helping me said “you’ve already been here.” I was horrified at the implication and of course I hadn’t. I just sternly looked at her and said “no.” She started asking me if someone wearing the same shirt had been there to which I replied “maybe.” (How would I know who else wore a jcrew sweatshirt yesterday?) In the moment I was kind of ignoring her and just focused on getting my ballot and getting out of there. But is this normal? She quickly backed down but it felt wrong to imply I had already voted. This all happened before anyone knew my name and democratic registration but it didn’t feel right.

    2. Whoa, not to overreact but that is totally voter intimidation. I would be seriously disturbed by the accusation (that’s what it was! it wasn’t a question or an implication!). I don’t know to whom you could report that, but I would figure that out and do so.

      1. You could call the clerk of the county you live in and ask that statements like this be addressed in training for election workers.

    3. The worker thought you looked like someone else. Bad to say, yes, but they’re volunteers, and clearly when she checked your ID, she saw she was mistaken.

      1. Yeah, in my experience poll workers are usually elderly volunteers who probably don’t have a lot else going on in their lives. Yes, she was mistaken and maybe somewhat obnoxious about it (it’s hard to be elderly and realize that you’re not as astute as you used to be), but this seems like a major overreaction. No harm was done, nothing was delayed by even a few seconds, and this seems like a major overreach of the idea of voter intimidation.

        1. +1. Especially since it sounds like she backed down right away. Personally, I would let this go.

      2. Poll workers are paid in most states; they are not volunteers. Poll watchers, on the other hand, are volunteers for one or the other political parties or organizations, but anyone taking ID is a paid poll worker and should be trained by the local elections board.

        1. Poll workers are paid, usually a small honorarium, and they go through a few hours of training. But they’re really still volunteers functionally – the pay works out to maybe minimum wage for the long day, if that. (Source: have worked the polls in two different states.)

        2. My mom is retired and serves as a poll worker. She gets a $50 stipend and basically does it as a social activity with a side of civic duty. They get very minimal training. I wouldn’t take it personally.

    4. Yikes – you should have a Board of Elections in your county that does the training for elections officers. I’d locate their information and send an email letting them know what happened and highlight it as something they should bring up in their next elections officer training as a form of potential voter intimidation. From what I recall from the trainings I’ve done in the past, this is definitely out of the ordinary, especially since they have ways to track who has actually been there to vote already.

      1. Yes, I’ve volunteered as a poll observer and this is absolutely the kind of issue we were trained to report and escalate if necessary.

      2. +1 that it would be really helpful to your community if you notified whoever is responsible for elections in your county of this so they can retrain (and also, figure out if there was a pattern of intimidation at this polling location).

    5. You are the best judge of tone and demeanor here. My first thought was that poll workers are often older people, who are there for 16 hours straight, and can be kind of awkward at making conversation. It is an odd comment, but possibly could be a person thinking out loud/making a weird introduction? (And a reminder that more of us need to volunteer for this tedious and time-consuming task!)

    6. She was doing her job, especially if you don’t live in a state with mandatory photo ID. The way to prevent people from voting twice is actually based on sight: has this person already been here today?

      Source: I am a poll watcher and Election Day attorney, and have done these things every election for a decade, across four different states.

      1. Wait so I think this is what happened. No ids in my state. Is the idea to just shame people into leaving? Is there a mechanism to prevent this tactic from being applied to perceived members of a political party? What should I do if this happens again? Can she actually prevent me from voting?

      2. She was not just doing her job. She was being weird and potentially trying to intimidate voters. Many people wear the same shirt or very similar shirts, and it’s such a weird thing to accuse somebody of. I can see how some people would have just left instead of dealing with this, even though they know they haven’t voted already that day.

          1. Ok. I’m reading this and it looks like she could have challenged my eligibility and I could have voted had I sworn under oath that she was wrong.

            Stating as a matter of fact that I had already been to the polling place, and implying that I voted already, without the willingness to formally challenge my eligibility to vote does feel off to me. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that people think it’s problematic and I’m pretty sure that’s not her job to make these remarks unless she’s prepared to swear she has reason to believe I’m ineligible, which of course she didn’t.

          2. Hi, Anon at 12:15. You seem to be weirdly invested in discounting this person’s experience. You’ve requested everyone read a 50-state primer and associated statutes before asking you to clarify more, but I think you’ve given yourself the burden of all these replies (I don’t see people asking for lots of clarifications?)

            Since you’re a lawyer, you probably understand that context is important and that some of these laws could be unclear or otherwise problematic (especially to non lawyers).

            I’m not sure why anyone who is in favor of free and fair elections would spend their day attempting to refute someone who felt they were speciously accused by a poll worker of voter fraud.

      3. Respectfully, the way to prevent a person from voting twice is to check them in as per usual and rely on the computerized system to tell you (as a poll worker) that the voter has in fact already voted.

        1. +1000 I am a poll worker in CA (no ID required) and asking someone this question would be completely inappropriate. You check them in, the system indicates if they have already voted or not. If it appears that they’ve already cast a vote (mail in or otherwise) but they insist that they haven’t, you still allow them to vote via provisional ballot and the Registrar’s Office handles any discrepancies as they tally the votes.

          2. I see our take.a.seat. troll from yesterday is back. Yesterday you were a medical expert. Today you are an election genius. Wonder what tomorrow will be.

        2. Respectfully, no.

          Let’s say that your name is Ruth Smith. You go in at 7 am and claim to be Jennifer Jones. You know Jennifer and you know that she almost never votes. They check of Jennifer’s name, give you a ballot, and you vote.

          At lunch time, you go in and vote under your own name. The mechanism to prevent you from voting twice is someone says “She was here this morning.”

          Respectfully, your so-called solution does not address the problem.

          1. Respectfully, this sounds unhinged. A poll worker could challenge every single person on that ground and how would the voter disprove it? Just cast a provisional ballot?

            I mean, i get that this is the justification for voter Id laws, but I think studies have also shown that the actual occurrence of the situation of voter fraud you describe is vanishingly small.

    7. Eh the poll worker seems kind of weird, but I get recognized pretty frequently in places I’ve never been. I think I just have one of those faces, or I have a doppelganger who has followed me on an interstate move.

    8. Maybe someone already voted as you, so it’s not intimidation but a call for escalation re how someone was able to do that. In my home county, there are several common family names, so it could be a clerical error (David R Hall vs David R. Hall Jr vs Dave Hall, etc.). But less likely on women’ s names, IMO. I had to show my license for the first time yesterday, so things like that should shut down both fraud and mistakes (assuming women don’t change names, which is so common as to be a paperwork nightmare for things like this now, no wonder Elizabeth Taylor didn’t change her name).

      1. The OP said this was before she signed in or gave her name. So it was based on sight alone.

      2. No one voted as me. As I stated above, this was before I gave anyone my name. You’re describing a completely different scenario.

      3. This was prior to knowing her name, though – it was just based on her appearance/clothing. I would bring it up with the election board only because that kind of observation could be very deterring to other people trying to vote. It’s just not appropriate.

    9. She was weird and wrong. I once had a pool worker try to refuse my ID years ago and it still makes me mad!

      There are definitely people who believe that tons of people are constantly illegally voting and it’s too bad one of them became a poll worker.

    10. I am in CA and we did not have an election yesterday (at least not in my county or city). I’m trying to think of the states that did vote yesterday, and I think many of them are red or purple. In other words, not with good history when it comes to voting rights.

      OP, I don’t know what you look like. I do not look like a white, conservative voter, and if I had experienced what you experienced, I would have: (1) done whatever necessary to submit my vote (as you did) and then (2) once my vote was submitted, asked for the senior poll worker on site and reported it (so you can identify the worker on the spot) and (3) followed up in writing to the registrar of voters (or whatever your local voting authority is). Maybe (4) called the ACLU or similar to report. You have to stop it before it can blossom.

        1. See my comment above but I did read them. I understand she could challenge my registration and ability. Nothing in the statute requires her to make an accusation she’s not willing to affirm or swear to. I’m not sure why you’re skeptical that a poll worker could use their position to intimidate voters by implying they are ineligible to vote even she is unwilling to swear to it.

  6. Planning a cruise, Virgin, which will stop in Key West and a private beach club in the Bahamas, with a group of friends (4 couples). We’ll also have some time before and after in Miami. I’ve never been to any of these locations or on a Virgin cruise – any one have experiences with the cruise line or any of those locations and want to make suggestions for food/experiences we should do (or not do)?

    TIA!

    1. If you like small, unique museums, the Mel Fisher museum in Key West is cool – documents a famous Spanish shipwreck discovery (treasure!), and general maritime history.

      1. Yes! My parents had a children’s book about this they read to us when we were kids, so it was a bit of a childhood obsession and I may be biased, but it was cool.

        If it’s your thing, the Key West cemetery has some funny gravemarkers.

    2. Go to Hemingway’s house! It’s very interesting architecture and literary history wise

        1. The number one reason I want to visit the Hemingway house someday, even despite A Moveable Feast being one of my favorite books ever.

        2. The cats are cute and super chill about all the people hanging around taking pictures of them. I have a polydactyl cat with one set of thumbs, but these guys had extra toe beans on their front and back paws. I think the majority of pictures from my trip are of the cats!

    3. I’ve spent a lot of time in Key West – if you only have the day and want to get as much of the experience as possible: 1) buy the Conch Train tour, which is a hop on hop off around the island. It’s small and very walkable, but this gives you all the big sights in a short time investment. Otherwise, walk all the way down Duval street to the end and then return the other direction on Whitehead and the Truman annex. 2) I think Truman’s Little White House and the Hemingway House are both worth a stop. 3) Restaurants: Lunch at Blue Heaven in Bahama Village, drop by a couple of bars on/near Duval St. (Rum Bar, Green Parrot, Sloppy Joe’s, or Smokin’ Tuna). Drop by Conch Republic for oysters or fresh catch of the day.

    4. On R*ddit, the Cruise sub has lots info about different cruise lines and what to expect. Search for Virgin and you’ll find a lot of info.

      In Key West, you can check out the southernmost point marker. The Hemingway Museum. The butterfly conservatory is cool too. We had good food at the Seaside Cafe and Old Town Tavern & Beer Garden.

    5. I really loved Vizcaya Museum and Gardens in Miami. It’s one of those big Guilded Age mansions like the Biltmore Estate or Hearst Castle, on the water in Florida. If you like that kind of thing it’s a don’t-miss.

  7. Looking for a different kind of perfect pants. Straight leg sweatpants or fleece lined pants. I want them for walking the dog in the winter. I wear Talbots curvy pants size 18 and find some sweatpants have too low a rise in the behind to be comfortable wearing. I don’t love the traditional tight ankles of sweatpants until I switch to boots.

    Have tried some from Eddie Bauer, LL Bean, Northface. Any suggestions?

    2. Look up Lands End “Serious Sweats”. Very warm, come in many different cuts including straight leg and boot cut, and will be available in your size.

    5. I was noticing that Title 9 offers more fleece-lined pants lately. Might be worth a look.

    7. Athleta–pricy but wear like iron. They have leggings and bootcut fleece pants. If you can wait till Black Friday, they will be 25% off. They are the holy grail. I love mine and they really do last years.

      Eddie Bauer also has some too, but I like the athleta ones way better. Polar Fleece powerstretch for the win.

  8. easiest to clean humidifier for large rooms? not just the tank, but the whole device. I love my wirecutter-recommended Levoit warm/cool mist but there are so many nooks and crannies inside the base that make it so much work to clean.

    3. This one is the best–I really love it. Warm and cool mist, big tank and while there are some nooks in the base, the top is easy to clean and has good drain holes.

      HoMedics TotalComfort Ultrasonic Humidifier with UV-C Technology

      from the river s*te.

  9. Has anyone purchased a wool topcoat lately? I need one that feels lovely, and I live in a rural area, far from places that sell nice wool-cashmere topcoats. Specific recs appreciated.

    2. They are expensive but my two Mackage wool coats are very warm and they feel beautiful. It looks like they don’t make my older one but it’s similar to the ‘Ruth’ style, my Elodie in army green is gorgeous and super warm. Soia and Kyo also has good options and usually offers holiday discounts.

    3. Why do you need a “lovely” wool-cashmere topcoat if you live in the middle of nowhere? All the guys down at the feed store will be sufficiently impressed with anything that’s not Carhartt.

      1. They’re all blind from exposure to cow farts anyway. She’s dressing for herself!

  10. You all seem like a group that would know the answer to this question. My mother gifted me a lovely set of earrings from Etsy. It was from a jeweler that sells secondhand items, but I don’t think this were vintage–probably from a commercial chain of some kind. (She thoughtfully knows I prefer to buy jewelry and clothes secondhand where possible for environmental reasons, bless her.) Tragically I lost one of them getting off a commuter train. I can try messaging the seller, but given that they’re a purveyor of used goods, I’m not certain if the seller would know the provenance. Is there any way I can do the research and replace just one earring? I’d love to not have to replace the set with a new one, defeating the whole point of a secondhand pair to begin with…

    They looked like these, which I know is a common style: Macy’s Tri-Tone Love Knot Stud Earrings

    1. Do a google image search to see if you can find any additional ones for sale. Buy the set and then you have a backup in case you lose another.

      1. I was just going to say this. I did it specifically with earrings last night, wondering if my Navajo turquoise earrings came in red coral, and the exact earrings popped right up.

    3. You could possibly do an image search and get very lucky to find the match. Or perhaps check with the seller to see if she by chance had two pairs of the same. But I don’t think you are ever going to be able to buy just one earring. This is not done. Even if the Etsy seller had another set in stock, she is not going to sell you one of the two, leaving her with an unsellable single earring. If she did, she’d likely just sell it for the pair price and do the task of tossing the extra herself in the name of pleasing a customer.
      Bless you for trying to save the world but I think your efforts are best directed elsewhere. Get the pair and save the extra in case you lose one again, even if that breaks a rule that you never ever have extra things. Then go pick up recyclable metal cans from a local park or something to carbon-neutralize the indiscretion.

    5. You’d be shocked at the number of Etsy sellers who claim to sell “vintage” or “handmade” items that are actually mass produced stuff bulk ordered from China. I would message the seller and see if they know.

      1. +1. I don’t think an image search will help you here since it’s a common style, as you note.

        1. I do. I’ve done image searches that found the exact thing on Etsy, so it’s not just limited to major retailers.

      1. Thanks. I was secretly hoping there was like a replacements dot com for jewelry, which I know is silly but you don’t know if you don’t ask!

  11. If you’re a manager, and you’re in a meeting where notes should be taken (but you’re not leading it), would you take the notes yourself or ask someone to do it? I would strongly prefer to ask someone else to do it – I’m horrible at taking notes. I literally did not take or took very sparse notes in grad school or most of college. My team is mostly men so its not a gender thing or anything like that.

    1. If you need notes taken, I do think this is an appropriate task to delegate, depending on everyone’s level or job. Say I’m a partner at a law firm. I’d bristle if a managing partner asked me to take notes. But if I were a newer associate and was asked to take notes, it wouldn’t be a big deal.

      1. Yeah this is to the equivalent of associates and at most senior associates (is that what they’re called?)

    2. Someone else, preferably someone who is not expected to participate substantively because it’s hard to do that and take good notes.

      You should also be clear about the purpose of the notes. If it’s to make a follow up task list the notes would be different than if you want a verbatim transcript of who said what (and there are reasons you might want one or the other, or not). I find if I’m not clear I get a verbatim transcript which is way less useful than you’d think.

    3. I would assign someone to take notes and circulate an email to memorialize the meeting (or upload the notes to a designated place if circulating is unnecessary).

    4. there are a number of AI programs that do this now, including a little button on Zoom (“summary”) — you can probably find something else that’s like an app on yoru phone.

      1. Just remember if you do this to disclose before you start and again on the record that you are recording the meeting. In some jurisdictions the definition of “recording” is very broad and you do not want to walk yourself into a wiretapping lawsuit.

      2. In addition to notice requirements, consider whether you are comfortable with having the content of your meeting forever documented in the bowels of whatever AI system you might use.

    5. whoever leads/calls the meeting in my mind should be responsible for identifying the note taker.

      1. In CORO, we learned OARR for each meeting:
        O – objective of the meeting
        A – agenda for the discussion
        R – roles of participants
        R – rules of interaction

        As the person calling the meeting, you are responsible. Note taker is a role to be either volunteered or voluntold or assigned (in descending order of preference).

    6. At my company, it is always the most junior person in the room who takes notes (specifically standardized to avoid gendered expectations), but it is also on the team leader to state that explicitly before the meeting, although everyone knows that is the norm.

    7. I let the person running the meeting decide who takes notes. It’s always a junior person and they are reviewed by the person running the meeting before being shared with all participants.

    8. The team attending the call should align ahead of time on roles and responsibilities (ie, who is leading the discussion, who is taking meeting minutes, etc). Ideally person presenting isn’t also taking minutes.

    9. Delegate it. And, as a relatively senior woman in a male-dominated world, I NEVER volunteer to take notes. Like, never ever.

      2. This is all very interesting to me. I am relatively senior, and have been for years, in a male dom industry with legal exposure and I need my own notes to remember details. Writing them is a memory aid for me. In fact, we all take our own notes.

        1. She’s talking about taking notes officially, with the intent to distribute them to the group. That’s a responsibility I am careful never to sign up for.

      3. Yeah to be clear I’ve never taken notes in a meeting. So it would be quite the change to start now.

    10. The person leading a meeting would be too distracted to take decent notes. It’s two jobs. Delegate for sure.

    11. Delegate but have it be a rotation or give it to a “meeting owner”. If you want it to be done a certain way, either make a template/take the first turn yourself or delegate that additional task to someone to set up how the notes should be taken, shared and stored.

    12. I work in BigLaw as a fairly junior partner, and we always have the most junior person in the room taking notes.

  12. If you were getting flat-soled black boots this year, would you get Chelsea boots, something like a Doc Martin, or more like a riding boot? I figured out pants / shoes for summer (ankle crops and flats), but having a hard time transitioning to cooler weather. I have long wanted Penelope Chilvers tassel boots and now I don’t know if they work with anything but skinny jeans and dresses.

    1. What will you be wearing them for, weekend wear only? Or to work? If you’d prefer to buy only one pair I’d go with something like the below option – not as casual as a chelsea boot but not as dressy as a riding boot. Honestly I’d probably get two pairs though – one more casual (chelsea boot, lug sole, etc. that you can wear in sloppy weather) and then a nice pair of either sleek low boots or heeled knee high boots for dresses.
      https://www.nordstrom.com/s/sloane-bootie-women/7513683?origin=coordinating-7513683-0-4-PDP_1_B-recbot-fmap_item_recs&recs_placement=PDP_1_B&recs_strategy=fmap_item_recs&recs_source=recbot&recs_page_type=product&recs_seed=6667774&color=BLACK

    2. Get the boots you have long wanted. You’re going to buy something else and regret it if you already know what you really want.

    4. I would get the kind that I have long wanted because surprisingly few people actually look at my feet or care what I wear my boots with, lol.

    5. I recently got Hush Puppies Amelia in black and am obsessed with them. They have an understated lug platform and come in wide width. The sole is sturdy but not heavy. I am wearing them with everything.

      My black flat riding boots have not yet come out of storage and I am in no rush to bring them out.

  13. Covid etiquette question. Are we still telling potential exposures when we get Covid or later find out we had Covid at a large event? I’ve been to a bunch of weddings this year. I found out weeks or months after the fact that one bride caught Covid at her wedding and another bride caught it immediately before the wedding and was feeling a little off the day of but didn’t test positive until after the wedding. With both of those weddings, I felt pretty worn down after the wedding, and tested right away, but I didn’t think to test more than once because I figured I was just tired. If I’d known I was exposed then I would have kept testing and isolating for a few days. I’m not sure if I have a right to be annoyed with my friends for not telling me that they exposed me to Covid?

    1. Nope! No one is testing and isolating for days based off of exposure. And if I were a bride I’d never test. Your expectations are out of line with reality.

    3. I recently contracted covid 3 days after attending a conference of 250+ people. I didn’t tell anyone at the conference. Contact tracing doesn’t seem to be a thing anymore. I took a rapid test and googled if I should call my doctor or somehow report it. Surprisingly, the answer is no. There’s no reporting going on.

    4. In that situation, if I were the bride, I would have told the people I spent a lot of time with, like the wedding party, but not all the guests, unless it was a really small wedding. At many weddings I go to, I don’t actually spend enough time with the bride to meet the definition of a Covid exposure!

      1. I was in both weddings, fwiw. I was a little surprised it didn’t come up in conversation; I’d talked to or seen both brides several times since their weddings. I’m pretty sure I’d at least talked to or texted with them while they were sick in bed.

    5. i think it depends – i will be doing thanksgiving with an immunocompromised family member so I would probably test more than if I wasn’t seeing her.

    6. I absolutely expect people to tell me so that I can avoid giving it to other people in case I got it! I would definitely be miffed at both those events at not getting a heads up. Just like the chickenpox, RSV, the stomach flu etc. I would expect to be told so I feel like covid is no different!

    7. I expect people to tell me so that I can prepare (test myself, arrange access to Paxlovid) if necessary. And I would do the same for others. My friends and coworkers know I have a co-morbidity because I decided early on that the way to protect myself was to tell everyone. Others are more private and you may have inadvertently exposed someone without knowing how serious it is for them.

    8. I have a parent undergoing chemo, so I do a lot of testing prior to seeing her (but I live with teens and my husband had it fairly recently). We have only had household spread once. So I just test me, figuring that if I’m going out and about, I could get it any number of ways and not just from people who know they are + or exposed or find out after we have been around each other.

    9. No, testing, isolating, and contact tracing aren’t things anymore.
      Everyone I know has gone back to the normal ‘it’s cold and flu season, expect to be exposed’ mentality they had prior to 2020.

    10. There’s no harm in telling people. They can decide what they want to do about it and it can be very helpful information to many who are concerned about exposure. It’s also good manners. I would have done the same for any other serious illnesses, like flu, in the past.

    11. If they didn’t test positive until after the wedding, then they didn’t know they had Covid at their weddings, so how were they supposed to tell you?

      And no, nobody isolates after being potentially exposed anymore.

      1. And if I’m reading your comment correctly, you’re not even sure you got Covid from the wedding? So I don’t know what you’re upset about.

    12. You have the right to be annoyed, but I think you can’t expect these days that anyone thinks about exposing others or taking any sort of risk mitigations.

      I am immunocompromised with a child that is the same, and this is a hard time for us socially. We are lucky to have family that is supportive and still tests and masks and lays low a bit before we visit them (2 times per year), but navigating society is hard right now.
      We still mask everywhere indoors and try to make activities safer (outdoors, windows open, not eating with others indoors), but as winter approaches, our social life dwindles.

      At this point I have just accepted that very few people care about people like us.

      1. In the same boat and I know and accept that people want to live like it’s over (and I would too in that position). The part that’s become harder to bear is the outright cruelty and the mocking tones. There was a brief time where you could at least hear “oh immunocompromised, that sucks, I’m happy to put on a mask during our meeting” or “that must be hard,” but now you’re more likely to hear “hahaha, masking is dead, you just want to pandemic forever, did you know that anxiety is bad for your health?” and similar. Maybe more people were raised by wolves than I previously realized.

    13. I’d expect to be told by people I’d spent significant indoor time with recently as a polite heads-up (think- the person I had an hourlong meeting or a meal with, not the person whose office is the other side of the building but greeted me briefly in passing in the hallway, or a neighbor that I chatted with on the street for a minute).

    14. I don’t know the etiquette, but here are some numbers on the odds of exposure at gatherings of various sizes: http://www.pmc19.com/data/index.php

      My sense is that the odds of exposure at a large event are so high that it feels a little silly or out of touch to expect a heads up .

      1. +1. If I’m going to a wedding or other large event with 100+ people, I just assume that someone in attendance has Covid. Statistically, that’s very likely. I wouldn’t expect to learn about a Covid exposure from such an event, unless it was like a close friend who I spent the whole night with. And even then, I would expect to hear more of a oh, it sucks that I’m sick (that I would hear whether or not I had seen them lately) and not a warning that I might have been exposed.

        1. Same. I just went to a huge concert we had to fly to and I assumed that people I was around – in the airport, in restaurants, at the concert, etc. were positive. And I did come home with a semi-miserable cold, but c’est la vie. The concert was totally worth it, 10/10 would do it again. I have no expectations that people are staying home or masking if they’re sick. I could have masked if I was really concerned. I could get a post-viral syndrome or Guillain-Barre from this cold but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. I’m not willing to not live my life because I’m afraid of getting sick. I remain more worried about cancer, as the Big Scary Boogeyman in the Closet.

    15. You are way off base. No one is doing these things anymore and its really unreasonable imo to expect it. (Barring unique situations – ie visiting someone with cancer, etc)

  14. Job hopping people like me – do you combine your 401ks?

    Right now I have a Roth IRA, a 401k from my previous job, and a sorta-random IRA. I also have a new 401k. They’re all Vanguard based.

    I could roll the old 401k into the new one so that I have more control over investments. On the other hand it’s a pain to move them over and they’re fine where they are.

    1. I try to combine them as much as possible without losing any tax benefits. I believe you can’t combine Roth IRAs and 401ks, or something along those lines. If they’re all with Vanguard then that should be much easier to combine the accounts that can be combined.

    2. Whenever I’ve left a job, I roll over everything into my IRAs so that I have easy control over it. The only reason I wouldn’t is if your employer plan had particularly low fees or access to a fund you can’t invest in directly, or if you were planning a mega back door Roth and didn’t want to mess up the cost basis stuff (never done one myself, just read about it).

    3. Yes, I roll them over. It seems like my former employers change providers every so often and if I don’t check them regularly, I can get caught without access to my account online when this happens. If everything is rolled into my current employer’s account, I know they have a vested interest in helping me regain access if I have issues logging on.

    4. Depends on how good your old and new plans are and other specifics of the plans. I have an old 401a and 457 I don’t roll over because there are potential benefits from being part of the state retirement program and 457s are eligible for penalty free early withdrawals.

      1. This right here. I have an ESOP that throws off dividend income that’s available right now. It’s not life-changing amounts, but having the option to save or spend as needed is nice. I also have a 457 that I hopefully won’t need until I retire, but it’s also nice to have as an emergency-emergency fund.

      2. I don’t roll over a former employer’s plan because they have such a deal on the expense load I’d never do as well as an individual investor. I have it in vanguard target retirement age index funds.

    5. I recommend rolling over old 401(k)s to an IRA that you control, unless your 401(k) has access to investments that you can’t replicate on your own. (This seems unlikely, but I’m old enough to remember when it was a big deal to have preferential access to some Blackrock funds.) Having worked on enough M&A deals where the target’s 401(k) plan is terminated or rolled into the purchaser’s plan (that may be at a different provider), I want to have direct control of my money. That said, I have an old 401(k) that is with Vanguard that shows up in my dashboard for all of my personal Vanguard accounts, so I’ve been lazy and left it alone. The former employer doesn’t impose fees on accounts for former employees, I know that Vanguard has my up to date contact info, and I log on frequently enough that I’d notice quickly if anything weird was going on.

      1. Yeah that’s the situation – it shows up with my other Vanguard accounts so I don’t feel like I’ll lose track of it or anything.

  15. Sparked by the question above, how do you choose the message on your cards? Do you take into account the holiday recipients celebrate (aka if you are a Christmas family and have Jewish or Muslim families on your list, is Merry Christmas a weird message?) I do go through this internal battle each year; while 95% my list is Christian (at least culturally), I do have a handful that aren’t, and I wonder if I’m being insensitive.

    Personally I hate the cards that say “Merriest” or “Happiest” because I know some recipients certainly aren’t having the happiest holidays and it seems a little cruel (I’m a classic overthinker, if you can’t tell)

    1. If you know for sure that a close friend is not in a place to hear “it’s been a wonderful year, happiest holidays to all,” then I would exclude that friend from the list and reach out personally instead. Otherwise, send exactly what you want to send. I have a friend who thinks we need to have a moment of silence whenever anyone on the group text is having a problem in life and it’s honestly so negative and depressing to live that way. Most people can and will enjoy receiving good wishes and they can also help people who are feeling down.

    2. We started sending photo cards when we had our first kid (before that, I would send non-photo holiday cards and could personalize to whomever I was sending it based on their religion).

      For a couple of years we did “Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays.” For the last couple years we’ve just done “Happy Holidays.” My husband would prefer to say “Merry Christmas,” but I prefer to be more inclusive, though we do celebrate Christmas (in a non-religious way). If I were religious I’d probably feel differently. I’d say 85% of our recipients celebrate Christmas, with the rest celebrating Jewish holidays. I usually don’t think my Jewish friends would care about getting a Merry Christmas card, but I don’t want to offend and especially this year I would not do it.

      We typically say something like “wishing you peace, joy and love” and then happy holidays from the [his last/my last] family. Then on the back we include a couple more photos and a short message if we have news to share or want to acknowledge anything else in our lives.

    3. We do Merry Christmas, and I have a separate set of non- photo Happy Holidays cards that vibe more New Year that I send to my Jewish/Muslim friends.

      1. This is what I do. Most of my list gets some iteration of Merry Christmas! I have a handful of friends who do not celebrate Christian holidays and I send them a different card.

        They have gotten the same card three years in a row because there are not that many of them but they get their own card (and frankly I assume they do not remember my card from one year to the next).

    4. You can’t win at this unfortunately. All the people who get upset at Happy Holidays greetings are still out there, and we have people of many faiths on our lists. We go with Happy Holidays or Peace and hope for the best.

      1. This exactly.
        I send the cards I like and don’t even think twice.
        I had someone tell me they thought happy holidays was offensive to them so I just shrugged and never sent them another card.

    5. I’m firmly in Happy Holidays camp because it acknowledges all of the holidays that happen at that time of year, which even for Christians includes Christmas and New Year’s. Plus that gives you more time to send your cards! I might write Merry Christmas to people I know celebrate Christmas or say it on the actual day, but I stick to Happy Holidays for the printed part and general greetings to people.

      1. +! my family celebrates a secular Christmas, with Santa and the reindeer. We aren’t churchgoers. We put a happy holidays and happy new year / joy and peace of the season type message.

    6. i like sending Happy New Year cards for this reason. even if they aren’t happy right now, you can wish them hope for happiness in the new year. Maybe I’m wrong, but at least in the U.S. the New Year applies to everyone whether you celebrate it or not, like the calendar switches a year vs. if some people don’t celebrate a holiday this time of year, ‘Happy Holiday’s might not apply to them.

      2. Another +1 for Happy New Year cards. Aside from the “what greeting to use” question, it makes it more acceptable for them to arrive in late December/early January, because I never have my act together to send them earlier.

    7. I love holiday cards – getting, receiving; truly my favorite part of the holiday! We always do Happy Holidays. My husband would prefer our cards say Merry Christmas. His rationale is that’s what we celebrate and it is understood that our holiday is what is inspiring us to bestow outward good wishes, my take is that I don’t say “good morning” on a call to my colleagues based in India just because it’s morning for me, so how is this any different. I ultimately win as the purchaser of cards. Majority of our recipients also celebrate Christmas but several of my very closest friends are Jewish, so few in number but high in importance. We always do a design that incorporates the word Joy, which is meaningful to us.

      The only holiday card thing that irks me is when my husband’s family and friends who engage with me on social media address our cards “The [Husband last name] family”. I totally excuse older family members or those who really don’t know me at all, but all my accounts have my last name very clear / part of the handle so if you’re liking my posts or sending me memes routinely, I expect better. That said, per my first sentence, I so love cards that this is a minor annoyance for something that is really appreciated!

      1. I also kept my maiden name, yet I’ve even seen Mr. and Mrs. John Smith a few times. So gross.

        1. Yup! I got one of those including my ex husband’s name. (So Mr and Mrs Ex Husband) I contacted the sender saying the at I assumed she hadn’t updated her online address book, but my name is First Birth Name after the divorce. She addressed it the same way for 3 more years!! I have just taken her off my list, and I think I must have fallen off of hers as well because I thankfully didn’t get it last year.

    8. we do general holiday greetings bc our recipient list is a mix of religions and people who aren’t religious at all.

    9. I do happy holidays with minimal decoration. Different people have different views that sometimes change over time. I don’t want to upset anyone, but I also don’t want to take on the emotional burden of whatever baggage they may or may not assign to holiday greetings this year. One of my best friends is Muslim and I wish her Merry Christmas on Christmas and Eid Mubarak at the Eids. It’s no different from happy birthday for her. I have another friend who is a very level headed person but some years the holidays really get to her. Last year she posted a long FB rant saying that it’s disingenuous to send “holiday” cards with (undecorated) pine trees because you clearly mean Christmas and get out of here with your fake inclusive virtue signaling nonsense. The year before that she posted a long rant about Christmas-specific cards and why would you impose your Christmas wishes on her when you know she doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I understand why it’s a touchy subject, we all just try to do our best and learn.

      2. We do “Merry Christmas” because our family celebrates Christmas. If someone on our list was offended by that, I’d be happy to take them off the list.

        FWIW, I don’t really like Christmas, it’s more of a social/cultural obligation for me. My spouse and kids love Christmas, my elderly mom and MIL do as well, and I just have to steel myself for six weeks of OMG XMAS as best I can under the circumstances. My dream is to go to the movies and eat Chinese food on Christmas Day, which I can realize in the old folks’ home when I am an eccentric elderly lady.

        1. Unlikely you’ll see this, but cosigning on not liking Christmas. I’m a practicing Catholic, so in theory I should love it. But all the secular/consumer stuff keeps piling up and it just feels like a season full of ways I won’t measure up. I keep my expectations as low as I can, grit my teeth, and look forward to New Year’s Day, when all I have to do is eat beans/greens and watch football.

    10. I buy the ones that have the illustration I like best, and alternate between ‘happy holidays’ and ‘season’s greetings’.
      The cards I buy come in a box so everyone on my list gets the same card, and then I include personal notes in them.

    11. I do happy holidays on the card itself (a photo card) but then write merry Christmas or happy Hanukkah or happy new year depending on the recipient. I’m an observant Christian, and 80% of my card list is either culturally or religiously Christian, but I like to tailor my greetings, and totally get that Christmas dominates this time of year and could be exclusionary and don’t want to add to it.

      And I also try to keep it a bit reverent and not too “happiest” because it feels a little braggy or something. But I am also an over thinker.

    12. We do Happy New Year because our recipients celebrate both Hanukkah and Christmas and it seems wrong to wish only a happy/merry one or the other. Everyone does the new year.

      1. I’ve done happy new year on occasion and I had one older Jewish friend harrumph at me that January 1 is not the Jewish new year.

        Hard line Christians are offended by Happy Holidays replacing Merry Christmas.

        You honestly can’t please everyone, so you’ve got to please yourself.

        1. That is odd – I’m Jewish and while the religious new year is in the early fall, Jews (at least in the US) definitely celebrate the western new year on January 1 too. We get two New Years! I think that person was just looking for a reason to be offended.

          That said, my in-laws still b1tch about us doing “Christmas cards” even though the word Christmas has never appeared on the card and we’ve never had any color scheme or imagery that would evoke Christmas (we try to keep it secular/winter-themed, but if anything it skews towards blue and white for Hanukkah). Again, they’re just looking for a reason to be offended.

          1. He’s generally a grump, so grain of salt and all that, but that was the year everyone was up in arms about “Happy Holidays” stealing christ or whatever, and my husband’s extended family are part of that demographic, so I just felt like I couldn’t win!

    13. We do photo heavy cards with some nice foil embossed festive squiggly lines followed by a usual deadpan, sarcastic paragraph on our prior years events. It’s normally well received.

    14. I only started sending cards about 6 years ago when my youngest was born. Maybe 75% of my list is Jewish (the ones who are mostly colleagues/clients). I have always sent Happy Holidays or Happy New Year (the one year I was late with the cards). I order them in bulk to get a better price per card, and am not going to order 20 special Merry Christmas cards with the same family photos. So I’d rather send a generic non-offensive message. But I receive Merry Christmas cards every year from colleagues and some friends. I’m not offended because I figure everyone is also ordering in bulk and, for those people, the majority of their list celebrates Christmas. It’s nice to get a card at all and I’m always excited to see the cute family pics!

      1. Oops. That should have said “the ones who aren’t.” Most of the closest people on my list are Jewish.

    15. I typically put something anodyne like “I hope your holidays are filled with food, friends, and fun” or something that focuses on the traditions and conventions of most holidays–lights, presents, gatherings, family, food, events, etc.

  17. Best black dress sock? I need them to go above my ankle. I don’t want sweaty feet. I wear these with full length black dress pants and black shoes (flats, kitten heels, loafers the Clark’s Juliet shoe).

      1. not if they are pantyhose weight. I buy the knee high hose 10 packs from CVS for this purpose.

      2. Really, no socks with flats? No socks in the winter is impractical for most of the country. I dress for the weather, not some perceived faux pas rule.

        1. Same.
          Warm feet are more important to me than the silly opinion of someone who cares too much about what’s on them, lol.

          2. Yes, I should remember that this is where the people who care too much about what’s on my feet are.
            Still going to dress for the weather, though.

          3. I tend to agree with no socks and ballet flats or kitten heels but also if feet are cold, I’d say that ballet flats or kitten heels aren’t the best choice! I personally save my ballet flats and kitten heels or other “skimpy” shoes for warm weather.

        2. I don’t wear flats or heels in the winter in the office for this reason – boots only.

      3. I’ve owned thin dress socks that looked the same as knee-highs…I’d be creeped out by anyone looking at my feet long enough to tell the difference so they could side-eye me, lol.

      4. With a skirt, certainly a faux pas, but if you’re wearing full length pants the “sock” won’t show much if the pants are hemmed correctly. I used to wear black sheer knee-high stockings in this situation. They kept me a little warmer and “filled in” the bare foot between black shoes and black pants, which I thought made more visual sense.

        1. Black sheer knee high stockings are different than socks. Socks are going to be thick and bunch around the bend of the foot and look absolutely ridiculous with any kind of pumps, kitten heel or no.

      6. In my NYC law firm all the women in the 20s are wearing socks with flats and loafers, some even white socks. Usually with a scalloped edge at the top (all the way up not folded over).

        1. I think socks (excluding loafer socks, of course) with loafers only looks cute when the loafer is lug sole or has at least a bit of a platform. Visible socks with flat loafers reads grammar school uniform to me

        2. yeah that’s a super distinctive trendy look that’s not what the OP is describing, which is something subtle for comfort hidden under long pants.

  18. if you’re paying health insurance for a family of 4, what is your premium? mine was $1460 this year

    1. We will be a family of 6, but over 3 it’s just the “family” plan. Our rates are increasing this year and premium will be about $2800 for a high deductible, HSA plan. And I would consider our benefits pretty good and premium reasonable based on convos with friends (but now I’m wondering…)

    2. That doesn’t sound bad. I pay $1200 to have my husband on my insurance, and I’m already paying about $300 for myself monthly.

    4. Are you talking about individual plans or employer sponsored plans? The employer plans are going to vary quite a bit depending on how much the employer subsidized.

      I’m self employed and have a blue shield gold level plan from the marketplace for myself and my two college aged kids. It’s $1600 a month currently for us three but I expect it to go up at renewal.

    5. I paid $2000/month, unsubsidized but at our company’s group rate. I think it’s not high, just feels high b/c usually it’s subsidized at least for the employee.

    6. $570 for just me, on an ACA plan. It’s good coverage, and I pay it because I get around by bike and foot in a car-centric area. When/if I get hit, I will need good hospital coverage, because so many drivers are un or underinsured.

      2. Cosign your decisions. I was hit while crossing in a crosswalk by a car driven by an uninsured driver. My very good health insurance was crucial.

    7. Around $1800 for family coverage for an HDHP plan with United Healthcare. Only my son is covered on my plan since there is a prohibitively high working spouse surcharge, so my husband has his own coverage. $3000 deductible, $7000 out-of-pocket maximum (in-network, but the network is huge.)

    8. My premiums are low, I pay about $200/year to insure me and one kid, but our deductible is huge (~$15k) so we end up paying for almost all expenses out of pocket. Fortunately in a typical year our healthcare expenses are minimal. Vaccines and an annual well child visit and well woman visit are free as preventative care.

      DH and I work for the same org (public university) but he has his own insurance plan. We did the math and it was better that way.

    9. Family of 3 on my employer’s high deductible plan. I pay about $90 per pay period in premiums, which will come to ~$2,300 for the full year.

      1. FWIW, I just checked and my employer covers $600 per pay period. That puts the total premiums paid for my HDHP at nearly $18,000 per year.

        1. I take the employer premium numbers with a grain of salt. At my employer that’s what they claim the benefit is “worth” not what they actually pay. They negotiate lower group rates normally.

    10. Family of three. Employer sponsored. Tufts Health PPO in Mass. $200/pay period or $5400/year. Individual deductible is $1,500.

      Despite being somewhat obsessive over my finances, I’ve never gone deep on insurance tbh. But, this plan works for us, a family with (knock on wood) no major medical issues, a few urgent care/ER visits over the years for relatively run of the mill stuff, but most notably years of fertility treatments (medication, appts, surgeries, etc.) that have been gratefully largely covered.

    11. We pay $470 for two adults, but it would be $620 for the family plan. The COBRA price for the family plan (so basically the unsubsidized price, though I think there’s a small extra fee?) is $2900. HMO with 0 deductible and low copays but 0 coverage outside of (a pretty good) network other than emergencies.

    12. $0 premium for a great PPO plan, $0 deductible in network, $250 deductible for out of network for family coverage (spouse + me + children). I think we added the rider for $7/month to increase out of network coverage by 75%.
      Grateful for a strong union!

    13. $0, like the above poster. We’re a military family but the kids and I see civilian doctors. We have a small co-pay for some prescriptions, but otherwise I can’t remember the last time I saw a bill, including for my two c-sections.

  19. There is a new set of articles in the New York Times today showcasing interviews with Hamas where Hamas leadership admits to desiring a permanent war. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

    Hamas views the deaths of thousands of Palestinians as a win. They were planned. That’s very important to understand.

      1. This is what I don’t understand. Two wrongs don’t make a right sounds trite, but isn’t that an accurate description of the repeated total obliteration of entire apartment buildings where hundreds of civilians live?

        1. I think this is exactly it. Even the Anon @ 12:46 below – Okay Hamas is not trying to preserve life, but Israel doesn’t get extra points for . . . not killing as many civilians. It’s a war. Neither side gets kudos if they happen to not violate the entire Geneva convention.

        2. +1,000 Hamas has always been willing to sacrifice its own people. That’s not news to anyone, especially Israel (and what does it say about the Israeli government that Hamas knew how it would respond…it’s almost like it’s a cycle that both sides kill the innocent Gazans over and over again), but how does that justify the bombing of the Gazans? and not just the bombing, but cutting off their water, their electricity, their food. The hospitals in Gaza are performing surgery without access to water for sterilization or even anesthesia. It’s a collective punishment against thousands, particularly young kids. In what other contexts do people justify the murder of thousands because of a few? I have no idea how anyone can justify Israel’s actions there. It’s a mass slaughter and it’ll be remembered as such. And now the settler violence against the Palestinians in the West Bank is ratcheting up, again with the complicity of the government. It is beyond shameful that our government is backing this.

          2. How do you suggest Israel respond? I don’t think it’s reasonable or fair to act like Israel must always turn the other cheek when faced with perpetual violence and hatred. Israel attempts to warn civilians and target only areas with strategic value. I’m not saying they’re perfect (or blameless) and one thing I would suggest is that Israel allow more humanitarian aid shipments from partners it can trust (i.e., partners that aren’t smuggling in weapons in water containers). But I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that Israel should not retaliate militarily, even if the area is densely populated.

          3. Maybe if you’re relying on a country for electricity and water, it’s not a bright idea to have paratroopers fly in and shoot civilians dead at a music festival.

          4. It’s kind of strange that I’ve seen Israel’s supporters claim on one hand that Israel left Gaza to be run by Hamas without Israel’s interference in 2005 but also claim that Hamas essentially should not bite the hand that feeds it.

          5. The women undergoing c sections without anesthesia or electricity didn’t ask Hamas to paraglide in anywhere.

      2. Israel is attempting to rout Hamas. Hamas has carefully embedded its combatants into civilian infrastructure. I feel real pain and sorrow for the civilians who I’m sure didn’t ask for this (the New York Times piece confirms that the October 7 attacks were closely held and guarded) and who probably have no way to collaborate with Israelis to identify those combatants even if they want to since Hamas has executed collaborators for that in the past. I don’t know the answer or if Israel will succeed, but I do know that it’s not Israel celebrating the loss of civilian life. I do know that Israel is the only party that has made attempts to save it.

        1. Anon at 12:46, your last sentence is wild given that Israel has flat out refused to even consider a ceasefire or even the “humanitarian pause” that the US has asked for. Please tell me which part of cutting of food, water, electricity, and bombing schools, ambulances, homes, apartments, etc. are considered attempts to save life. Or are you referring to telling all the displaced Palestinians to leave certain parts of Gaza when thousands have nowhere to go?

          1. Israel bombed the ambulance convoy because it was being used to transport Hamas combatants. This is what Hamas wanted (and still wants). Hamas has also physically prevented civilians from leaving targeted areas in multiple circumstances. Blaming solely Israel is playing into the hands of Hamas.

          2. You responded to one word in that entire comment (“ambulance”) and not a single other point. Let’s say that one point is true, and they justifiably bombed that one single ambulance (that assumed every statement out of the Israeli govt is true, but for the purposes of this comment, okay), everything else in the 1:19 comment is still true.

          3. NYT reports that Israel has approached Egypt and other neighboring governments about allowing Gaza civilians to evacuate, but the others won’t agree on part because they’re worried Hamas will use that mechanism to evacuate their fighters. Also, the planned evacuation of dual nationals and injured Palestinians to Egypt was held up because Hamas kept trying to put its fighters on the evacuation list.

          4. Israel has not only dropped flyers, made robocalls and made personal calls telling civilians to move south, it has opened humanitarian corridors and protected the Gazan civilians using them to move south from Hamas terrorists who are shooting at them. Read that again: *Hamas* is preventing Gazan civilians from moving to safety. Just one source: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hjanhj007t

            It would be much easier, faster, and safer (for IDF soldiers) to kill indiscriminately. They choose instead to do everything they can to protect Gazan civilians while still achieving their goals of returning the hostages and finding and killing the Hamas military leaders who are in the underground city (with all the food, water, medicine and fuel that Gazan civilians need).

            The ambulance had Hamas terrorists inside.

        2. From an article yesterday on Ynet (link below):

          “According to the IDF, Hamas tried to sabotage the movement of the population to the south on Monday and fired an anti-tank missile at the residents. On Tuesday an IDF tank secured the evacuees on the Salah al-Din Road so that Hamas would not harm them.”

    3. Let’s put it this way. If domestic terrorists carried out an attack in the U.S. and took hundreds of hostages and then holed up in an elementary school, would it be okay to bomb the elementary school? Would you just say to the innocent kids and teachers, “just release the hostages and we’ll stop killing you”? No. Because the 5 year old who just got blown to shreds in Gaza (literally, I’m sure this happened in the last hour) had no control over whether hostages get released or not. To imply otherwise is the height of cruelty.

      1. Your view is that if terrorists came into the USA, videoed themselves gleefully murdering civilians and doing things like trying to chop of heads with garden hoes, then took hundreds of hostages and continued shelling the areas where the bodies were so that the bodies could not even be recovered in all cases for weeks afterwards, and continued to shell the USA, that the USA would do nothing?

        Israel has spent a lot of time and effort warning civilians to leave areas that will be targeted. It’s clearly far from ideal but there is no other way to destroy the miles of tunnels. The released hostages were clear that they were examined by doctors who entered the tunnels from hospitals above the tunnels.

        I am so sick of people saying Israel should stop without explaining WTF else they should do to free hostages and stop terrorist attacks from embedded infrastructure.

        1. This. It is laughable to think the US would just sit back and do nothing in this situation. Of course we would bomb the h3ll out of whatever country had taken civilian hostages.

        2. Here’s a few steps Israel could do at any point before or now to undercut Hamas:

          Not build illegal settlements in Palestine
          Punish settlers who kill Palestinians
          Allow right of return for the thousands of Palestinian refugees displaced over the past 70 years from prior violence (because once u flee you’re not allowed back to your land, hence why Egypt and Jordan don’t want to take them now)
          Condemn what happened at Nakba
          Permit Palestinians equal access to use the roads and have the same emergency service surrounding Gaza as settlers do
          Don’t do mass arrests or arrests without due process especially of teenagers

          This is just a start and things an ordinary person came up in one internet comment.

          Lastly, it’s interesting to me that people keep saying what do u expect Israel to do, it’s almost like saying when people are backed into a corner, they have to do violent things…hmmm…I wonder where else I hear that from.

          For those same people I would ask, what would you tell a Palestinian orphan who watched a settler take his home and then his parents are killed from the IDF or a settler? Be better? Don’t perpetuate the cycle of violence? Because if u expect that from a child, u should expect it from Netanyahu

          1. Wild that people keep expecting Jewish that suffered from genocide once already in the last 100 years to just turn the other cheek towards an organization like Hamas whose express purpose is the eradication of Jewish people.

            If Israel actually wanted to commit genocide against Palestinian people they could have destroyed the whole of Gaza in a day on Oct 8. They are very clearly trying to avoid civilian casualties while also meeting military goals.

          2. It’s so antisemitic to portray it like Jewish people have not lived there for literally thousands of years.

            Try reading some of the books on the Ottoman Empire and stop acting like Jewish people first arrived in the Middle East in 1945.

            Protest chants in London last week literally referenced a massacre of an entire village of Jewish people in 628. People have been trying to kill all the Jews in the Middle East for a very long time. Hamas is just the latest iteration. Israel has put up with Hamas for 20 years. I don’t blame them one bit for finally fighting back.

          3. Not a single word was written in the comments about Jewish people being removed from Israel, or not being able to live there. But the any time you talk about Palestinian rights, it’s automatically portrayed as antisemitism. There’s no reason that Jews and Palestinians can’t live in that region together; they’ve done so in the past. These comments make one thing clear though: that for many Israeli supporters, the killing and displacement of the Palestinians is justified because what happened to the Jews in the past. Although many of the atrocities against the Jews were done by Europeans, it’s the Palestinians and only them, that paid the price. Because they are a poorer group with less power than the western world so it’s easier to justify the violence against them as retribution for past wrongs.

          1. There is plenty of water. In the underground city. Just ask Hamas to share with its civilians. Also food, medicine and fuel.

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