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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Trekkie North Jogger

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This isn’t a color I would immediately think of as a neutral (I tend to veer more towards black/gray than brown), but as I’m looking at these reddish-brown joggers, I’m thinking of all the different things in my closet they could be paired with. In this new working-from-home world that I’m slowly adjusting to, I would wear these with a navy crewneck sweater or even just a gray t-shirt and a black cardigan.

The pants are $89 at Athleta and available in regular sizes 0–16 and tall sizes 2–16. Trekkie North Jogger

Athleta has similar joggers in sizes 1X–3X that are on sale for $59.99. 

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Sales of note for 12.5

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517 Comments

  1. Thanks to the magic of hot flashes, I have had to start sleeping with a fan on, so the overhead fan is on and set to medium speed. However, I find that my face dries out super easily and this seems to be the culprit. How do I prevent this without gooping up my face so it ends up on my pillowcases? (If it matters, I am in my late 30s and my skin has typically been pretty calm until this!)

    1. I just coat my face in Vaseline, goop my pillow case, and wash them more. I have no solutions.

      1. Yep! I use a nice coating of vaseline and put an old t-shirt over my pillowcase.

      1. oooh, and that makes a difference? I was thinking that any fan would be the same problem so I hadn’t considered that!

      3. I have no problem with my Vornado fans and have never been able to sleep under a ceiling fan.

    6. I like the Shea Moisture Manuka Honey & Yogurt Glow Getter Pressed Serum Moisturizer.

      The name is ridiculously long, but I find it to be a good overnight moisturizer without being goopy.

    7. I wash my face before bed, apply a hyaluronic acid serum while the skin is still wet, and then an occlusive (I don’t like vaseline but am fine with water + silicone based products).

      1. (And I hate spending money on skincare, so my water + silicone occlusive of preference is just Monistat Chafing Gel.)

    8. I use a very thin coating of aloe vera on my skin. It dries pretty quickly and creates a moisture seal.
      In winter months when I really battle dryness, I like the Korres sleeping facial creams.

    9. Forgive me because I hate when people offer advice to others that wasn’t sought. But that seems young for hot flashes. I was getting horrible night sweats and it ended up being a symptom of celiac disease. But other things can also cause, from infections to sleep apnea. Might be worth mentioning to your doc if you haven’t already, esp if it’s primarily a night thing.

      1. Both hot flashes and dry skin are major symptoms of multiple different endocrine and/or autoimmune disorders, so I agree it makes sense to mention to a doctor.

        1. Yes, night sweating was a big thyroid disease symptom for me. I agree this sounds unusual for a late 30-something and it’s worth at least discussing it with a doctor.

      2. Eh, my best friend was fully menopausal (like, already done) at age 39. I had perimenopausal symptoms including hot flashes for 10+ years before I was all the way done. Everyone is different in this regard.

        2. Nobody’s saying it doesn’t happen; the question is whether there’s an underlying medical condition when it does.

      3. I have them occasionally; it’s a side effect of a medication I’m on. Moderately annoying, but I like the primary effect too much to give it up.

  2. Just an FYI if you’re thinking about purchasing them-I thought they fit on the larger side and didn’t quite work for me. I have larger thighs/butt yet they were still too large in that area. The Lululemon On The Fly pants fit well, but in contrast were on the smaller side.

    1. I have these pants in two colors and absolutely love them. I agree with you that they do run a bit big. I am about an 8 and would typically order a medium, but these are better in a small.

      1. What does the fabric feel like? Is it stretchy? I have a large butt/ things and really struggle to find things large enough for me, so these might be perfect?

  3. A friend is releasing her first book soon and she is all about rainbow tie dye. I have this idea in my head of buying her a nice pen that is or looks to be rainbow tie dye, which could have purple ink (her favorite for writing) so she could have something nice to sign her book with when she goes to signing events. I can’t seem to find anything fitting this though or even a company that would make such. Any help or ideas would be super appreciated!

    2. I don’t mean to harsh on your sweet idea, but I cannot imagine book signing events in the near future.

      1. Eh, it seems a lot easier to keep 6′ distance there than at hair salons and the like. Just limit capacity and put the seats far apart.

        1. Personally, I think that that type of event is going to be very slow to come back. People just aren’t as dedicated to attending them as they are to their family reunions and so on. It’s too many strangers packed into small bookshops.

          1. There are writers who will be profoundly relieved if this is true! (Not that writers don’t enjoy meeting their readers, but book tours can be exhausting and have become increasingly obligatory.)

        2. I will need to get my hair cut at some point in the future. I’m a voracious reader, but I don’t ever need to attend a book signing again, and they weren’t ever really events that people felt passionately about (unless they were meeting Michelle Obama or some other major figure at the book signing). I’m not saying it’s not unfortunate, but I think this one may become a casualty for the foreseeable future.

      2. She may be signing and mailing them out or signing to give to family or friends. Agreed though, it is sad that the traditional experience is likely to be lost here.

      3. My husband has a book coming out this summer and all his book events have been converted to online readings. He was actually looking forward to his events so I’m a little sad for him, but I agree, I don’t know that I see signing events coming back any time soon.

    3. Perhaps a nice rainbow pen and a pack of colorful sharpies – I don’t think I’d want to take a nice and meaningful pen to signings.

  4. I’m concerned that when my law firm opens back up this summer, there will be a situation where staff will be packed into their cubicles having to wear a mask all 8 hours, while attorneys can hide away in offices and take our masks off. I think that might cause some resentment, and understandably so. The floor I work on has the most people and before this happened, staff and admins were super crowded. My firm hasn’t announced its re-opening plan yet but I hope they rotate the staff or build higher partitions for the cubicles so they can take their masks off at their desk.

    1. We are spreading into our unused conference rooms since we are currently no-visitors and not allowing meetings anyway (so in-office zooms will be a thing).

      1. Which is why I think work in the office should be optional if there is no big difference between WFH and work in the office. For people that would prefer to work in the office, it is there.

    2. I suspect that firms are going to rotate staff. My BF does shift work and they’ve established an A team and a B team to cover all 3 shifts on alternating weeks. I imagine law firms will do something like that – which will really suck because it means everyone will be reduced to basically part time. I hope they’ll just allow some people to continue to WFH but somehow I doubt it.

      Also – it’s totally impractical to require people to wear masks if they talk on the phone a lot. The mask muffles your speech in person, you’re going to be basically incomprehensible over the phone.

    3. With the restaurant overseas having found that it spreads through air conditioning, even if those with offices take off their masks, if there is a central air or heating, it’d contaminate the entire place so they’d need to keep theirs on all day too!

      1. Would masks even be effective in this case? My understanding is that they keep droplets in but don’t protect the wearer against whatever may be circulating in the air.

          1. Yeah I understand the effectiveness when you assume 100% compliance. But what if people take off their masks to drink water, eat lunch, have a phone call in their private office, etc? Then everyone is kind of screwed, right?

          3. If this is the case, then I am NOT interested in leaveing any of my clotheing or shoes in the office, b/c some of the cleaneing for the building come in to my office at night and touch my stuff and try it on. I know b/c my dresses are stretched out of shape when I come in on Monday’s and I know they do cleaning of the carpets over the weekend. I think I also have to limit the number of shoes I keep there b/c some always wind up missing, and I think that they are home, but they are NOT, and Frank said he does not touch my clotheing or shoes any more after I complained to the manageing partner. FOOEY!

        2. They would be effective because they would reduce the droplets entering the air which reduces the amount circulating via air conditioning.

        3. Help me out here. I get that they’re effective in catching droplets, but do they really help when people inevitably end up touching them with their hands throughout the day? I thought we were just supposed to touch the ear loops/ties to put them on and off but mine inevitably needs adjusting to stay in place and I see people constantly touching their masks – pulling them down below their chins if they’re not close to anyone or to eat/drink, adjusting because they are fogging up glasses, etc. So unless you’re super diligent about cleaning your hands after each time (which hasn’t been my experience in what I’ve observed), aren’t your hands then presumably covered in the germs you were trying to stop from spreading? Do fabric masks really make that much of a difference if we can’t stop ourselves from touching them? (For the record, I have several masks and wear them every time I go out. Just trying to understand.)

          1. You’re right, if you touch your face anyway, they’re not protecting you.

            They’re still protecting everybody else. For the most part, it’s other people’s masks that protect you.

            Of course everyone can help protect themselves by NOT touching their face, mask or no mask, and by washing hands.

          3. I don’t wear the mask to protect myself, I wear it to protect others in case I’m sick and don’t know it.

          4. Yes, other people’s masks protect you even if they’re touching their masks. They’re not coughing, sneezing or taking deep breathes directly into the air. You should assume the virus is on surfaces anyway.

      2. This. Unfortunately, staying home is still by far the best option as it would be very demanding to wear masks every minute of every day (How do you lunch? Will you have take time to wash your hands prior to touching your mask, which you will need to do every time you want a sip of water? Not to mention all the other potentially contaminating stuff like avoiding proximity to flushing toilets without lids, or having to carry your own paper towels with you to open doors if your office only has a hand dryer).

        Besides all this, do we even have any research on how effective masks are or aren’t in workplaces/enclosed areas for extended use (8+hr workday) with some human error (and water/other breaks). And probably with some who will wear their mask down around their necks or take them off in private offices …

        Really, let’s just stay home vs worrying about all this as it won’t make us safe.

        1. I would hope we have research on this since there’s nothing new about using masks this way in hospitals.

          But I agree that I’d rather stay home if the work can be done from home. Masks seem like a better response to
          the flu (80% less flu? sounds great to me!) than to virus we don’t know how to treat yet.

          1. I’m sure there is research on this in hospital settings but hospital workers are trained/know how to use masks, regularly swap them out, have extensive protocols on wearing masks and are wearing surgical masks not fabric ones. Not sure how much of that data/research is translatable to people like me who can’t stop touching the mask to adjust it, wear it for much longer than we’re probably supposed to and wear fabric masks as opposed to surgical masks.

          2. You have a point about switching out masks, though they’re certainly not switching them out now with the shortages.

            I am sure that every hospital worker wants to touch their face just as much as the rest of us do.

        2. Yep, this is my primary concern about returning to the office. Our company says that they will have strict social distancing rules for when we eventually return, but the reality is that when you’re focused on actually doing work, your concentration and awareness of appropriate social distancing will plummet because it’s not natural behavior. I miss popping into colleagues’ offices to chat and being around people generally, but I can’t imagine wearing a mask throughout the workday (and how much that would make my very sensitive skin break out), be vigilant about sanitizing after touching high-touch surfaces (dooknobs), etc. It seems so exhausting. I would much rather work from home where I can control a lot of those things than be in the office and feel like I have to be hyper-alert AND do my job at the same time.

        3. Atul Gawande has a piece in the New Yorker that points out we do actually have the research-hospitals that have been treating covid and have prevented spread through their staff. The Mass General Brigham system has been tracking and analyzing spread in their workforce and it’s actually really, really low. But to achieve it requires adherence to four things: hygiene measures, symptom screening, distancing, and masks. I found it reassuring to read-it felt like concrete actions to take to allow reopening while the virus is still actively spreading, which is where we’ll be at for a long time to come. I feel like it should be required reading for all employers…
          https://www.newyorker.com/science/medical-dispatch/amid-the-coronavirus-crisis-a-regimen-for-reentry

      3. Yeah, I think this is a situation where you have to assume people will be people, in that they likely won’t comply with this in their offices.

    4. My firm is looking into more partitions, moving staff into offices to the extent we have space available, moving people around to less occupied areas, staggering schedules, and making returning to the office voluntary. If you can, reach out and make suggestions! I think many places are open to achievable ideas.

    5. Our provost said yesterday that they are in no hurry to reopen campus any time this summer. We are advocating for rotating fewer people in the office at any given time, given that things have gone really well for us working from home. Our summer school has already been moved online. My boss is vulnerable, so I know that she is being extra careful about coming back. We are also having a local hospital and engineers look at HVAC and advise us. I expect that we will also wear masks when we are around other people. The dude’s office reopened and they are requiring masks when they are outside their private work spaces. He was unhappy about it but has been complying. His antibody test came back negative, so I think he’s feeling a bit less cocky about it. I also bought him some really cool masks that a friend of mine is making from men’s dress shirts. I was shocked at how happy he was when I gave them to him last night!

      1. Care to share your friend’s website if there is one? I have been looking for a mask my husband would actually like and wear.

    6. My firm is strongly encouraging people to work remotely (when we’re allowed to come back) and talking about alternating days in office (for people who can work remotely, which it turns out is most people).

  5. Remember when the target modal pj pants were the it thing here (super comfy, cheap, came in short and long lengths)? Since they’re gone, what’s the closest dupe? I’ve worn mine threadbare and since it seems they can’t be replaced (and short length comfy washable cheap pants are tricky to find), I’d love to know what others have deferred to!

    1. Have you checked out the Stars Above line at Target? They had some cozy pants that worked well for me.

      1. I LOVE the Stars Above line. The stuff is similar in quality to Soma or Eberhey and costs much, much less.

        1. Oooh, this is good to know. I’ve been thinking about buying some Soma cool nights pajamas. Have you found something similar from this line?

    2. IDK how relatively comfy the fabric is but I have found washable short pants with wider legs at ON.

    3. I like DKNY jams, they have held up well for 3 years so far without stretching out, pilling, etc. I find them at Macy’s or RLL.

    5. I like the cool nights line from Soma. I’ve had both the target and the Soma. Soma has a similar feel but holds up better, doesn’t pull, etc. I’ve had some of the Soma for 10 years I think!

    6. I’ve had luck with discontinued stuff on Ebay before – might get lucky and find some there!

  6. If you’ve ever come here looking for advice and gotten feedback or guidance, please remind us what you asked and share an update! (This could be about the paint color or furniture you chose or the dress you picked for an event or whether you moved or went back to school or whatever!)

    1. Several months ago, I wasn’t sure whether to move states to live with family or stay in an apartment where the new neighbors were super loud and awful. The hive pretty unanimously told me to move. I decided to give up my privacy and moved in with family. I arrived one week before the lockdown. Although I can’t imagine when this ends and I have to think about dating or wanting to spend the night with someone and having people around to notice whether I come home, I also can’t imagine being locked down with horrible neighbors making life miserable. Thanks everyone!

    2. I wrote in last summer about a promotion I had just received and got some great advice. I work in a law firm but I’m not an attorney or a paralegal. My team and I were recruited from MA and Ph.D programs to do specialized work. During the summer, my department sometimes get first year law clerks to intern with my team and help us with some non-legal projects. Since we don’t have room for them, we typically just have them occupy shared work spaces since they are only here for the summer (and that’s how it is even if they are assisting attorneys). We got an additional clerk and he was given the only available office, while I was in a cubicle. It was really demoralizing because I would have to “borrow” his office to have team meetings or one-on-ones with my direct reports, including him. I wrote in asking what to do. I got some great advice that, looking back, was super obvious but was just hard for me to see at the time. One person said “use your words” and tell your boss that you need the office. Surprisingly, that worked. Putting the clerk in the office was an oversight and my boss didn’t realize what was going on.

      I will say some advice was pretty hurtful. One persons told me I was over-valuing myself. For someone with imposter syndrome, that stung. Another person kept assuming I was a paralegal because she couldn’t imagine the type of department I was describing so it must not exist. However, overall the advice was great and was what I needed to give me the courage to ask for what I wanted.

      1. I remember that conversation a bit, and assumed that you were a chemistry PhD consulting on patent work, a CPA consulting on M&A or litigation, an international relations expert consulting on international law…. something like that.

    3. I had been a regular here since the page started. In the end of 2011 and into 2012, I lost my job, found out my “I think he’s The One” had cheated, my dog spent days in the vet ICU, and then after a short time home, he died. Some of you were incredibly kind and loving. One sent me an edible arrangement, which was the only food I ate for a while when I was too sad to eat, so it was both amazing and nutritionally necessary. Some people called me a tr0ll and said I was making things up for attention. I was too broken to prove I wasn’t lying so I just left the site. I’ve come and gone periodically but stopped using my handle because people were so hurtful. However, a couple of people stayed in touch for a little bit via email and one even sent a care package for my new dog when I adopted him several months later. It has been a long time since and I realize that the job was not the right long-term fit anyway and the guy was trash and I am so grateful to have learned from my first dog how to love my current dog, which is how I honor his memory. Thank you to those who had been so wonderful to me in the very worst time in my life. I was grateful then and I am grateful now and always.

      1. Awww I remember you losing your dog and I’m so glad you have another dog to love.

      2. Oh my, I’m a long time reader as well and remember you. I felt terrible that you were treated as horribly as you were, especially during such a difficult time in your life. I’m so happy to hear that things are going well for you. Thank you for the update!

      3. So good to hear from you!!! I’m Anon now too but I posted under Blonde Lawyer for a long time.

      4. K, I remember you so well (and wish I had followed up more on trying to do a meet-up when I was traveling all the time to your new city, back then). I’m glad to hear from you, and glad to hear the few mean commenters did not drive you away.

      5. Great to hear from you K! I wish this were like fb so we could see pics of the dog!!

        I hope our current batch of anonymous mean girls reads this and realizes you’re hurting an actual person when you are as nasty as you’ve been lately.

      6. I remember you well! So nice to hear from you! Love to you and the new pup!

      7. So great to hear from you and that you are doing well! I need to email you sometime and get caught up.

    4. I’ve found this group so helpful in many, many ways. The one that sticks out to me the most is when my oldest daughter was rejected from her first-choice college (I didn’t identify the college at the time but it was Duke, not sure why I kept it a secret, will still root against them in every sporting event until the end of time) and I had no idea how to comfort her. I received so many responses telling me it would all work out, that you had succeeded greatly after such a setback and that she would end up where she was supposed to be. I was able to use some of these stories (“this happened to my “friend” and here is what happened next . . . “) to help get her through the next few weeks. Now my daughter is a senior at a different college, kicking butt and having the time of her life (well, until recently). Neither of us can imagine her anywhere else and it’s like she was born to be where she is. This was an example of the collective wisdom and experience of this group.

      I will also admit to having my environmental consciousness raised a little bit. In addition, I love learning about what life is like for overachieving women in other cities.

      I think I am older than most of you here, and I hope I can help provide guidance without being overbearing.

      1. For the record, I always love reading your posts. You’re helpful and thoughtful, not at all overbearing! Glad to hear everything worked out for your daughter except sad that she missed out on her senior year.

        1. I should have been clearer – she is a rising senior, having just completed the coursework for her junior year. She and her friends have leased a house for the next academic year, and even if classes are online, she will go back and do the online work from her house near campus. I feel terrible for this year’s graduates.

    5. I needed a gut check about getting out of our house a few months ago. We’re still in the house, we’ve thankfully fixed a bunch of the problems, and DH, who I was despairing of ever convincing that we needed to live somewhere cleaner, just told me last night that “Hey, Dr. So-and-so is selling their house and it’s right by work! It’s way too expensive for us and I ended up telling the other doctors about it, but I thought you would be interested to know!”
      So thanks Corporette for bolstering me up to get through to this point! Hopefully the market swings in our favor soon.

      1. If one of the other doctors buys that house, you should find out if you can buy the house they are moving out of on an off market sale. Chances are if the currently for sale house is too expensive for you, the house they are upgrading from might be just right.

    6. I asked for advice about advocating for WFH and flexibility as a senior leader in a company. I was wrongly framing this as a “women’s issue” (blech I know – I wasn’t thinking clearly!) and my arguments were focused around that. The best advice I received was to reframe this to be more inclusive and recognize that *all* employees can and should benefit from work place flexibility. In hindsight, it was very myopic of me, but that’s why you ask for advice – to see what you are missing.

    7. I posted here last summer about my 17-year old niece who was having an affair (for want of a better word) with the divorced dad she babysat for. I followed the universal advice to tell her parents. My brother was furious and told the guy to end it or he would tell the ex-wife and see what the judge overseeing custody of their kids thought. Guy did end it and told my niece why.

      Niece is still refusing to talk to me and barely talking to her parents. She moved out after she turned 18 (her Dad told her to fix her attitude or move out never imagining she would actually do it); she couch surfed for a couple of months and thanks to the pandemic lockdown is currently working as a live-in nanny for another family while she finishes high school on line. According to her brother she is planning on taking a gap year and continuing to nanny while she establishes that she is not a dependent on her parents for financial aid purposes. She is still in regular contact with her siblings and grandparents so we at least know she is safe. I am honestly shocked by her reaction. She was always a pretty easy kid; never got in trouble, good grades, etc. But as her brother says, “it’s like you guys did not know her at all.”

      So good news she is no longer is a questionable relationship. Bad news is there might be irreparably damaged relationship with her parents (and me).

      1. Oh i remember this….I’m sorry she won’t talk to you, but you did the right thing. Hopefully she will grow to realize and with time your relationship will return.

      2. I remember this. I’m so sorry that it strained her relationship with her parents and you. Keep hope that when she’s older, she will understand why they did what they did, and that forcing the end of the relationship was in her best interest.

      3. I remember that story too. I am sorry it hard right now, but she is still only a teenager. I think that once she matures she will recognize what you did for her. The fact that the guy broke it off and told her why tells me he knew it was wrong, and so will she. Just keep the door open.

  7. Good news: outdoor camps may happen in my area this summer. Challenge: kiddo got her period and it is not predictable yet. Of course, my feeds are full of thinx-type swimwear (kiddo is not up to trying tampons yet). Do people really use this for swimming? I am hesitant — people are so attuned to biohazards these days and blood in the water just seems to be not what one should do now (or do around others who would not be comfortable with that). She’d be OK just sitting out water activities periodically — she likes hanging out by water probably as much as she likes being in it. So much new to navigate this year!

    1. Ahhh. The awkward coming of age phase. Having personal flashbacks of it taking 20 minutes to use an OB applicator free tampon my mom gave me so I could go to my Junior Lifeguarding class…

      For regular daytime stuff, I think the thinx would be great; however, I would honestly just teach her how to use a tampon for swimming purposes. Have her practice at home and she’ll be fine. It’s a valuable life skill I used for a long time!

      1. +1 to tampons. I’m of the opinion that no girl should miss out on water sports (or other sports) because of her period. If she truly does not feel comfortable using them, then I would check out that special swimwear.

        1. Yea, I quit swim team when I got my period because I didn’t want to try tampons. I never told my mother this was the reason I quit. I wish I hadn’t and that my mother had encouraged me to at least try tampons then.

      2. Once upon a time I got my period at an away volleyball game. I already lived in the sticks and this place was way, way out in the middle of nowhere.

        I had one quarter. My options from the vending machine were a “belt-less maxi pad” – in 2001! – and a tampon. I’d never used a tampon, but I figured it’d be better for the game. Of course it had an unwaxed cardboard applicator. The AC was off and I vividly remember cursing my head off, sweating, trying to get the damn thing in place.

        All this to say – have her practice with you at home if she feels comfortable.

        2. Oh I wish I could go back to 2001 and give 2001 you a hug! But yes, there are so many situations where a period comes unexpectedly and the only option is a tampon. I was super grateful my mom “made” me learn how to use a tampon right away (I was on the swim team) and was able to get comfortable with using them at home.

      3. I remember constantly doing somersaults in the water so I could make sure my string hadn’t slipped out…lol.

      4. Yea, I think tampons are the way to go. Ally Raisman of USA Gymnastics fame had a pretty good marketing campaign not too long ago for Playtex Sport I think? Would that resonate with her at all? I remember watching the ads and thinking how great it would have been when I was 13 to see similar marketing strategies from, say, Brandi Chastain or Mia Hamm (holy girl crushes). Just the idea of sports and periods can go together was a huge concept for this teenage athlete to comprehend. I remember my mom always giving us an out when we had it, and while I understand her good intentions, I think that made me believe I couldn’t do active things or be spontaneous/way from home during that time of the month.

    2. Teach her to use tampons at home. Let her learn with the thinnest kind and to waste a box if that’s what it takes to get it right. It will be helpful forever that she knows how and being locked down is a great time to learn without worrying about getting it wrong while out with friends or on a date!

      1. I read it as the kid can but doesn’t want to. I get that — probably not something to force on a kid at first.

        1. This is a basic hygiene thing that she needs to learn. There is a difference between forcing a person to give up her bodily integrity and compassionately encouraging her to get over her squeamishness so she can maintain necessary personal hygiene.

          2. IDK — I think that initially, if the kid isn’t inclined, later is always an option. Later may be high school or middle school. But I know kids in elementary school who really, really don’t want to even if their moms do it. I wouldn’t want to traumatize a kid and imagine that at some point, they will be sick of pads at some point especially if their moms are open to tampons (not all moms are; mine was a pads person maybe because she remembers the belted ones and thought that beltless was so totally awesome in comparison and she also remembered toxic shock happening from tampons; she wasn’t so much anti as just not a user herself so our house never had any handy to learn on).

          3. Not sure how old you are, Anonymous, but I found the cardboard applicator tampons to be just terrible and had a much easier time when plastic ones came out. (I’m also one of those people who had a tough time using tampons until after I began gardening.) Your mom might have had enough bad experiences with the terrible tampons of her youth to not really care anymore.

          4. Figuring out how to manage your period is necessary. Using tampons isn’t. It is completely legitimate for a girl who’s recently gotten her period to not yet be ready to use internal products like tampons or cups yet, in the same way that it’s completely legitimate for someone to decide she *never* wants to use internal products.

          6. What do you suggest, then? Her mom forcing her to do it? Her decision as to how she wants to manage this may be that she’s going to wait to swim until she’s comfortable using tampons. Or that she wants to try the Thinx swimwear. Or that she is willing to take the risk with trace bleeding given that you actually don’t generally bleed very much when in the water at all.

            As long as she’s gotten good information and had a good conversation with her parent about this to dispel myths, discuss any concerns she has, and make sure she understands the options, this is her decision to make. I really wanted to use tampons but it was painful and uncomfortable the first few times I did it. I kept trying because I really wanted to do it. Key: *I* wanted to do it.

            If I’d been forced by my mother do it, it would have damaged our relationship and my understanding of my own right to make decisions about my body.

      2. This is waaaaay TMI but I was physically unable to use tampons until after I began gardening. My anatomy simply did not allow for it (I will spare you the details).

        2. I’m 40, have been gardening for decades, including self-gardening, have given birth vaginally, and still find tampons to be uncomfortable at best and painful at worst. Same with a cup. I did use tampons for swimming when I had to. Once I got older I preferred to use BC pills to skip the period if I was going to the pool.

          1. I second the above (minus the birth). I have never found a tampon comfortable, and it is not from lack of trying.

        3. Able to but it was HARD. It involved, and still involves, a lot of Zen breathing and being doubled over. The latter is due, I think, to my retroverted uterus. Basically, a yoga ‘forward fold’ is what it takes.

        5. Same. I did try but it was always basically halfway out, or just even with my underwear. I tried! But some of us just can’t do it until … well, something else paves the way.

        7. I am actually no longer able to use tampons. I used them as primary period product for a decade, now my flow has changed and is so light that even the smallest tampons are painful to insert/remove because they do not get adequately soaked. So…it is possible that for some people it’s not possible.

      3. Honestly, not everyone can use them comfortably.

        I spent too much time missing out on beach days as a teen because of it.

        1. A true inability to use tampons is rare, and OP’s daughter won’t know unless she tries. More than once.

          1. I have never heard of a physical inability to use tampons (barring an actual physical / anatomical defect of some sort, I suppose). Learn something new every day.

          3. Agreed – vaginismus is very rare, but missing out on all the fun activities life has to offer due to period issues is all too common.

          4. @LaurenB google hymen anomalies. I’m the poster above who said I couldn’t use tampons until after gardening for the first time — this is why. Thankfully it’s no longer a problem :)

          5. Add me to the list of ppl who had an issue. I needed a surgical intervention when I was 16. Literally my parents and my sister know, that’s it. Half a pinkie width is enough of an opening for menstrual fluid to come out but not for a tampon to go in. I didn’t want to give up being on the swim team so surgical intervention it was.

    4. As a chronic occasional leak-er no matter what, get the tampons *and* the period underwear/ swimwear!

    5. I was on the swim team before I was comfortable with tampons. One thing not to do – do not use pads with absorbing gel in them, because they swell up. I speak from mortifying experience here. Honestly I think I used nothing for a while…I know it is gross but we were 12. (We all peed in the pool too). I think the thinx product is probably fine; pool chemicals are there for a reason. Swim diapers work similarly. It isn’t like a tampon is going to prevent all traces of blood from entering the water anyway.

      1. It’s not actually really that gross; water pressure limits how much you bleed while swimming. I did that too as a kid and generally found no blood or very little blood in my swimsuit bottom afterward.

        1. This. I figured this out in my teens – flow stops while swimming due to the water pressure and doesn’t start for about 45 – 60 minutes after…so I swam and then had time to go the restroom change and use lady products.

    6. She can and should learn to use tampons. My 13-year-old is a gymnast and had no choice but to use them from day 1. It took some practice and experimentation with different brands, but she figured it out. At first she preferred an applicator, but after a few tries she decided OB applicator-free was most comfortable, convenient, and discreet. All teen swimmers, gymnasts, and dancers have to figure out how to use tampons. It is okay if she is intimidated at first. She will figure it out.

      It is not worthwhile and can be counterproductive to practice when she is not having her period.

      1. I used to wear pads under my leotard for ballet. I don’t think tampons are the only option.

    7. Please do not let your daughter be that kid who sits out. It will reinforce the fear of tampons and the feeling that a period is a shameful thing that should disrupt your life. It will also get her teased or bullied.

      2. In my high school PE swim class, girls were allowed to sit out for one week per month. Not one of the athletes or academic high achievers took advantage of this opportunity. The only girls who actually sat out were the “slackers” who would use any excuse to get out of any class. OP, think about the message you are sending to your daughter if you encourage her to sit out instead of finding a solution that allows her to participate.

        1. I’m getting hints of a seriously messed up version of feminism in this conversation. Women who don’t wear tampons are squeamish and unhygienic, and women who don’t exercise during menstruation are slackers looking for any excuse? Great to know what’s what people were thinking about me.

          1. Yeah, I am really bothered by a lot of the tone here. If an adult woman has the right to decide what menstrual products she using, why doesn’t a young woman have that right? Make sure she gets the right information and understands her options, but this is her choice.

          2. But here the mom is reinforcing the child’s fear and encouraging her not to participate in normal activities during her period. Mom needs to tell her to put on her big-girl panties (or bikini bottom), choose a solution, and get in the pool. If it’s Thinx, fine. But sitting on the sidelines is not a solution.

            I have a teen daughter. When she is reluctant to handle a situation, letting her take the easy way out backfires every time. Requiring her to face adult decisions in a mature, drama-free way leads to growth and responsibility.

          3. +1. I don’t understand why people are adamant that a young girl be forced to use tampons against her will just so she doesn’t miss a week of swimming. Like, who cares? I was a competitive swimmer through college and regularly took a week off each month in my mid-teens before I warmed up to the idea of tampons. It’s such a weird thing to get heated over. Trust girls (and women) to make their own choices.

          4. Literally no one is suggesting that she “force” her daughter to use tampons. We’re merely acknowledging the role that fear and anxiety over managing periods can play in restricting girls’ opportunities to participate in sports and social activities. Mothers (and friends) can do a lot to encourage the use of products that will enable full activity at summer camp and girls have to be taught about their options because they aren’t born knowing them. I know all too many women who never received any information about tampons because their mothers wouldn’t talk to them about the process and several of them dropped out of sports, missed out on family beach trips, or otherwise suffered simply because they weren’t aware of how to safely use pad alternatives.

            Again, no one is advocating force or coercion, but encouragement and instruction.

          5. Respectfully, I disagree. I think the tone here has moved well beyond one of “encouragement and instruction” to “don’t stop until she relents.” OP very clearly stated that her daughter doesn’t want to try tampons yet and so many commenters have steamrolled right over that, insisting on their POV rather than answering the original question.

          6. @Pure Imagination, read the comments above about “slackers,” “putting on big-girl panties,” and the suggestion that unwillingness to use tampons is a failure to learn basic hygiene skills. That’s not the language of “gentle encouragement.”

            There’s not even anything in the original post that indicates that the child is afraid of tampons – just a parenthetical note that she isn’t ready for them yet. There are plenty of girls who don’t use tampons right away, because the first months after you start your period can be a lot to take in and some girls want to do it one step at a time. Sure, no one has suggested physically forcing a tampon into this child’s body, but there are a lot of assumptions and aspersions being cast on a child’s decision that she’s not comfortable with tampons yet. That’s what bothers me. It’s not just about the tampons – it’s about respect for her right to make decisions about her own body. The fact that 75% of commenters slid right over what the OP describes as the child’s preferences to suggest tampons and to indicate, implicitly if not explicitly, that not choosing tampons is an unacceptable decision is what troubles me.

          7. Aspersions are not being cast on the child. This mother is trying to prevent her daughter from growing up by telling her that her period is gross and she needs to stay out of the pool.

          8. We’ll have to agree to disagree, cbackson, because I personally think it’s very important to ensure that sitting on the sidelines is not an option. Whether that’s Thinx or tampons is up to the child, but mom’s role is to present the options and help talk/walk through them. I’m not a fan of the slacker language either, but I just know too many girls who missed out on activities due to lack of knowledge and encouragement to learn something that is, yes, inherently scary for many young teens. IMO, the parent’s role is to help avoid that scenario because a young girl getting her first period is NOT in the same position for independent decision-making as a 25-year-old on her 150th period.

        2. Yikes. “Put on her big-girl panties”? This is the sort of judgmental, shaming, and punishing language that I find problematic. Not sure why some posters are pretending that not making her use tampons *right now* is some sort of permanent decision that will set the tone for how she deals with her periods for the rest of her life. Just bizarre. Let’s say your child is just starting to get invited to sleepovers. If they didn’t feel ready, would you force them so that you don’t “reinforce their fear”? I sure hope not.

          Not even going to touch the implication that she won’t be a high achiever because she’s not into tampons right now. Christ.

          1. It’s not about the tampons, it’s about the mom suggesting that the child exclude herself from normal activities. Having a period is a normal and natural part of life. It doesn’t excuse you from participating in life. This reminds me of a thread a while back where people were suggesting a kid with cramps should stay home from school. It’s infantilizing. This is a big kid. She can put on some Thinx, or not, and get in the pool. If she sits on the sidelines, she won’t grow into a healthy functioning adult.

          2. I was debilitated by cramps each month for years until I finally found a doctor who would diagnosed and treat my underlying medical conditions.

            Why didn’t previous doctors help me? Well, without running a single test, they said that what I was experiencing was normal, and it was a character flaw of mine that made cramps affect me more than they affect other women. They sent me to a therapist who explained that many women “perform” symptoms in order to “take on the sick role” to “get out of things they don’t want to do.” Or, you know, it could be endometriosis and PCOS, but I guess those are by definition incompatible with being a healthy, functioning adult anyway.

          3. Oh, good grief. Endometriosis and PCOS are medical conditions that everyone knows are legit. Those doctors were quacks and your parents should have dumped them. A teenager with one of those conditions should be treated and go to school.

          4. The doctors know those were legitimate medical conditions; they just didn’t think that a teenage girl’s complaints were legitimate.

            The point is that many doctors who themselves identify as high achieving women stigmatize their patients for the explicitly unacceptable choice to “sit on the sidelines,” even when it’s really no choice at all (I’ve been treated this way for passing out). I disagree that it’s the end of the world to opt out of something miserable and harmful just because other people are participating; to me it seems like a lesson in healthy boundaries.

    8. I think you should have a conversation about using tampons that eliminates whatever anxieties she is having about trying them — discomfort with her own body, discomfort with touching herself, discomfort with this affecting her virginity, concerns about hygiene, whatever it is. Release her from the anxieties so she can enjoy life and never miss out on an activity because of a period. She can sit out water activities for any other reason. I am so happy to have lived life without the hassle of pads (and without those debilitating anxieties).

      1. This is going to sound weird, but I got much better at using tampons when I had a biology class that included sketches of the developing genital system, like looking right at the cr*tch area, that showed just where all the holes were. It was kind of better than a more realistic picture or photo, because I just needed to know the relative layout, not the scenery.

        Also, even as an adult, I found the plastic applicators so much easier to use than the cardboard ones.

        1. I remember that the instructions that came in the tampon box used to include such a drawing. It was a cross-section of the woman from the side and was very helpful in showing the proper angle and placement.

        2. It just makes me sad to always see plastic tampon applicators on beaches etc. Teach her to use OB

          1. I agree and use OB now but I think it’s much easier to start with plastic applicators. I think the OB ones are really intimidating for the first few times.

          2. I felt the other way. My mother started me on OB as that is what she used, and I’m glad. Even leaving aside the waste, those applicators don’t really put you in touch with what’s going on, IMO. Anyone old enough to remember Rely tampons, which worked unbelievably well – too well?

          4. So as a teen who had to figure all of this out for herself, I found OB much less intimidating and more comfortable than the applicator variety. I would have a teen try several varieties of tampon, including a plastic applicator, one of the “organic” cardboard applicators, and applicator-free.

          5. OTOH, I find ob very very painful. I like the Tampax cardboard appliancators.

      2. I agree with this, but I would add – even after a good conversation like that, she may not be ready yet. I really don’t feel like it’s a good idea for a parent to push on this issue. Dispel the harmful myths and any fears she may have out of lack of knowledge, but this is ultimately a decision about bodily autonomy and letting girls make that for themselves is important.

        BTW, I speak as someone who was super stoked to move to tampons ASAP when I got my period, because I hated pads. But it was my decision and that was important.

      1. I would second this even as a 30 something woman who has been using tampons forever. Just don’t wear the light colored bottoms (pants, swimsuit, whatever) during your period – it’s a recipe for ruining them… (ask me how much money in white jeans I’ve wasted over the years…)

        1. Thinx are GREAT for this. No leak concerns at all. I would definitely try the swimwear.

      2. I think I’m still traumatized by unexpectedly getting my period in a summer co-ed gymnastics camp while wearing a light-pink leotard. There were cute older guys and sophisticated college women gymnasts and it was mortifying. It’s been 40 years and I still cringe.

        Yes, wear dark bottoms and hopefully tampons. And maybe use the Thinx ahead of when a period is expected so as not to be caught unawares.

  8. Remember listservs from college? What happened to those? They make so much sense – you can have a controlled list and add people and remove them as they request. Now, it seems that everyone just emails a normal list of email addresses, and it is hard to get someone added (like when the room mom keeps forgetting to add your husband).

    1. We have a couple industry listservs that work well! I’m a little surprised that we are using what seems like a pretty low tech solution but if it works, it works

    2. Yes! I started college in the fall of 1995 and that’s the first time I got an email address. We still had dial-up so I remember being so excited to log in and see what emails were awaiting me.

      At work, we are able to create distribution lists for groups and it’s easy to add or remove people. That’s with a corporate Outlook account though. Not sure how that works with Gmail.

    3. Mailing lists are still a thing. Most of mine (work or volunteering) are google groups.

    5. I’m in a professional organization that has a number of listservs; they’re run through Google gorups and are great.

    7. My kids’ schools have listservs for the parents, and my son’s Scouts troop uses separate listservs for parents vs Scouts. They’re still around.

    8. I’m still on a bunch of listervs (in academia, so it makes sense) but my campus is full G-suite, so for our former campus listservs, we now use Google Groups.

    9. My daughter’s college has google groups for classes and private Facebook groups for larger groups (like dorms or people looking for carpools) where you have to get the group admin to admit you (which means you have to have a college.edu email).

  9. I miss our Good Morning poster. I hope she’s doing okay.

    Part of our state is opening up tomorrow in a bit of a less restricted phase. I should feel happy about this as I’m in the part that is reopening, but all I’m feeling is anxious and exhausted. I’ve been working in the office the entire time this virus mess has been going on (and my new job will be in-office as well) so I’m not anxious about that. I don’t know what it is. I know I’m sad about so many events being canceled or being up in the air. I understand the need to cancel, but I feel like there’s nothing to look forward to. I’m so tired of the whole wearing facemasks and hand-sanitizing until my hands are blistered and not being able to hug anyone. It sucks that we can be essentially surrounded by people (6 feet apart, of course) and still feel so isolated. And if I hear the words “in this together” or “the new normal” one more time, I am going to scream. I think I’ve hit the wall here.

    Sorry, lovely ladies. I’m just venting. I know we’ve all been in similar places through this.

    1. I’m in a reopening state, and I have to say, I have been so impressed with how safe everyone has been. Businesses are requiring masks – almost everyone is wearing them anyway, but they stop people who aren’t. Everyone is staying there distance. I ran a couple of errands yesterday, and it felt soo good – and so safe.

      1. I wish that were true in my state. I picked up take out over the weekend, and I was one of the few people waiting for food wearing a mask. People weren’t keeping social distancing either. Since I’m higher risk, I won’t be going back out in public for a while, which makes me very sad.

        1. Totally agree! It got better in my area for a while, but since my state started reopening, it feels like people are getting muuuuch less diligent. The grocery store in my neighborhood is a mix of people who look terrified and people not wearing masks, getting up in your space without hesitation. Our new cases have been on the rise the last couple of days, with no apparent plan to shut anything down if they keep going up.

      2. +1 I have been pleasantly surprised too at the mask wearing and general compliance with social distancing rules. I’m in a red state.

      3. This isn’t true in my state at all. Restaurants were allowed to open at “25%” capacity which basically resulted in several places just holding crowded outdoor patio parties with no social distancing and no masks. Only about 70% of people have on masks and the 30% seem to insist on being the ones who want to get close to you then get angry when you treat them like a disease vector – and rightfully so. Stores are not enforcing the mask rule because guns and crazy people.
        It made me chuckle the joke that the people not wearing a mask are the ones who would hide a zombie bite in an apocalypse and infect the masses out of their selfishness.
        I’m so concerned that we’ll have to get to a critical mass of sick people where everyone knows someone who suffered horribly from this before people take it seriously (so NY or NJ levels).

    2. I was with you until the very last paragraph… I refuse to accept your apology because you have nothing to be sorry for! Everything you’re saying is true and valid and no matter what places we’ve all been, you get to feel your feelings (feelings most of us likely relate to)! <3 <3

      That said, I send you well wishes as things reopen… when my area does, I'm going to stay in for another few weeks to see how things shake out and whether people follow distancing and mask rules. I am completely with you in wanting some semblance of normalcy again but healthwise, it just isn't worth the risk to me. In the meantime, I'm glad we all have each other here! <3

    4. Some days are like that. I’ve been doing okay with work and “normal life” disruption, but I’ve been growing increasingly stressed about our leadership. Trump is using this opportunity to flex his authoritarianism – dropping the Flynn charges, hinting at delaying the election, discrediting Fauci, winking and nodding to armed extremist protesters, and so much else. I wish more than anything that we had decent leadership at the helm right now. The long-term effects (and resulting stress) will be very real.

    5. I’m right there with you. I am exhausted from the stress and anxiety of it all. My state is moving to fewer restrictions, even though cases are still rising. It’s confusing and maddening. I have no idea how to plan anything. I will wear a mask everywhere I go, but I feel like I shouldn’t be out and about at all. I am tired of working from home. I am tired of making decisions for which there are no great choices, only “less bad” options. I am worried sick about how to handle child care this summer and fall. It’s all too much, and I have also hit the wall.

      1. +1 to this and to Pure Imagination’s comments about national gov’t right now. It’s a nightmare.

        My state is doing a phased reopening right now. I understand why it needs to happen, but it’s troubling that none of the underlying factors have really improved and we’re doing it anyway. Cases are still rising, and there’s no expansion of testing or tracing abilities. It’s basically just because we can’t or don’t want to stay in lockdown. At first I thought I was missing something, but have since been seeing commentary even at the national level to this effect.

        1. I’m pretty disappointed that our government’s strategy on this apparently was let’s keep people in lockdown until that’s no longer feasible and then throw our hands up and say oh well.

          1. Yeah, I’m concerned that looking back–depending on how bad this is–we might find that the initial lockdown didn’t help at all, since we didn’t really accomplish much during this time. It may just look like a delay on what came next.

          2. Richard Bright, vaccine expert fired by the Trump administration, is already predicting a very grim winter when we have surging COVID on top of the regular flu season.

          3. You mean “strategy” – you can’t really call it a strategy without the air quotes

        2. Yeah, some states have decided “the economy” is more important than properly managing a public health issue. In those states the at risk are going to have to take care of themselves without the assistance of the community. They are also the same states with inadequate testing and that are not going to accurately report the deaths that have occurred as a result of their decisions. It’s appalling that our national government is encouraging them in all of this, sacrificing the lives of the vulnerable for political ends.

          1. A premature reopening and a resurgence of cases will do more damage to the economy. I just don’t understand why these people don’t get it.

    6. By the way, a relative sent me this tracker that assesses various metrics to give your state a risk score for reopening. I haven’t checked it out in too much detail yet, but you might find it useful.

      http://covidactnow.org/

    7. I’m right there with you. I’ve been pretty positive throughout all of this and then yesterday I just hit a wall. I am OVER it. I feel guilty for complaining because I have it pretty good with a WFH job and no one to take care of, but it is lonely and sad, and all the things I used to do when I was burned out at work or stressed are no longer possible (schedule plans with friends, go to a restaurant, plan a getaway). I find myself googling “how long do pandemics last” or “when do pandemics end” way too often. The knowledge that this could be with us forever is so depressing to me.

      There are so many aspects of it. The immediate fear about the virus and you or someone you know getting it. Then the economy and all the repercussions of the closings. And THEN the lack of any sense of normalcy. When I’ve gone through hard times before, I found comfort in the hustle and bustle of downtown, the sense of people going about their lives. Now all of that is gone. The empty calendar feels just as demoralizing as the lack of leadership. I think about what a strong leader would do and how he/she could motivate a fearful nation… and then I see what we have instead and it makes me so sad.

      1. You are me.

        Several of my friends seem to be hitting the wall this week, too, even the ones who were pretty okay at first with working from home, etc. Not sure why, I think we have all just reached peak sad and tired. And knowing that there’s not much hope of things getting better anytime soon because of our lack of national leadership.

        1. +1 me and a bunch of friends have all hit the wall this week. I think part of it is frustration with feeling like we haven’t made much progress during the lockdown so we all feel like we’re doomed eventually anyways so why bother

          1. Yeah. I’m trying to take some comfort in knowing that we are getting a little better at treating COVID – better ways to help people with low oxygen some drugs that make the course of the disease a little shorter and milder – but it’s hard.

        2. +1

          I think it’s the lack of hope, and no end in sight. In the beginning I think that a lot of people (myself and my friends included, which now seems quite naive) figured that things would be “back to normal” in a few months. I remember when we considered it a legit possibility that large weddings in June would happen, that festivals in May might go forward, we could go to concerts in the summer, when large events were being rescheduled for early fall, we could do trips later in the year. Not only are we cut off from these sources of joy, but we have to process the fact that we’ll be living with the actual risk of getting sick for much longer.

      2. Commenting late, but me tooooo, I have been in such a funk the last few days after doing so well for months. :(

    8. I totally hear you, Belle. I think last week and this week have been the “hit the wall” weeks for a lot of people. My breaking-point moment was when I realized my face mask was giving me a rash on my face. It’s not a big deal in the scheme of things – I’ll just order some new masks – but it was just like, really? Everything else and now I have to walk around with a face full of hydrocortisone cream too? It’s not so much one big thing that happens as all the little things piling up that end up being this unbearable load. It’s hard and it’s okay to say that it’s hard. Hugs.

    9. My state started opening last week and I am amazed by how little people’s behaviors have changed. There were lines out the door of nail salons with no one wearing masks. Restaurants are packed with no patrons wearing masks and large tables with no distancing — not to mention the long lines with everyone right next to each other. We are clearly on track for a second shut down or a significant number of deaths and overwhelmed hospitals.

        1. i’m in Houston too and I see a lot of people not wearing masks, taking kids into stores, and wandering around like there never was a virus

        2. Seriously? So embarrassing. I was in downtown Chicago yesterday. Almost everybody I saw was wearing a mask, with the exception of a few bikers and runners. People were more than accommodating in terms of granting social distance, stepping to the side / around, waiting for people to go through a door, etc. – it was such a “no big deal” attitude.
          I am embarrassed for the people and the parts of the country for whom wearing a mask is a Big Deal. The Greatest Generation suited up and stormed the beaches of Normandy while their loved ones at home made do with all kinds of shortages (sugar, rubber, etc), and these losers whine about wearing a mask. And *we’re the snowflakes? Yeah, no.

      2. I’m in New Orleans, and I feel like it’s going to be the same here as we reopen. I went to Walgreens this Monday to pick up some meds and I only saw one other customer wearing a mask. Same for the grocery, though I haven’t been in 2.5 weeks – at least half, maybe more, of the customers weren’t wearing masks. And we’ve been in an area with a lot of cases, so I am not expecting anyone to actually be safe as things start re-opening this weekend.

        1. My Walgreens (S. Carrollton and S. Claiborne) has been a hot mess. It felt like *maybe* things had gotten better in the past two weeks or so, but mostly people being stupid about distancing and not understanding how to stand on the damn blue dots. I am convinced that people will go crazy when the city starts to open and we’ll be right back in quarantine after cases spike. I’ve been biking in the park and that’s the only time that I go without a mask in public.

      3. Aren’t restaurants an exception to the mask wearing guidelines? You can’t eat or drink with a mask on. Though employees should still be wearing them.

    10. I’ve been wondering about our Good Morning poster as well. Hope she is okay.

      I hear ya about feeling like you’ve hit a wall. I feel like I’m in the process of grieving for what life used to be like because now things will be forever different. Every aspect of our lives has been changed and it’s definitely unsettling.

    11. Also over it. As always, I recognize that I’m very lucky compared with many people, but even still. I live a “reopened” state but my day to day hasn’t changed (and to be clear, I agree with continued social distancing). My friends still aren’t getting together. The restaurants I want to go to still aren’t open. Yoga studio is closed. I’m not keen on getting my hair/nails done or anything waxed in the best of times, and even if I was, that doesn’t feel appropriate to me. Two vacations already cancelled for me, no travel happening. No events, bars, no sports, no concerts or shows (huge deal to my SO who I can tell is doing a great job trying to hold it together and be optimistic but is slowly losing it). The best we can hope for is still take out, long walks, and mayyybe more hiking/camping options.

      Work is going reasonably well but I’m sick of working in an apt. on a tiny lap top, with piss poor leadership from my company and even more communication difficulties than we normally have. I miss my family. I miss my friends. I miss my colleagues. I’m disoriented and anxious and distracted and unfocused. Just ugh.

    12. I could have written this exact post. I am DOWN. All the way down.

      I keep trying to think of something to enjoy or look forward to, and coming up empty. I like indoor group exercise classes, but I’m not doing that again. I like taking my kids to places like the science center, various museums, etc. Not doing that again. I liked travelling multiple times a month to a major city to crowd myself in to public transportation and crowded courtrooms, but that seems like a nightmare. I like going to the theater, but I’m not doing that. I like library programming; nope. Who know that all my favorite activities involve breathing indoors with large groups of people?!

      1. As much as I’m not a super fan of the site, Refinery29 did a good youtube video called “29 Things To Do At Home” to help yourself to stay motivated. They consulted a psychologist who helped break down mental ways to break up the montony and the categories of activities to keep the brain stimulated. Being a listicle style site, they also posted 29 activities to try.

      2. Are we the same person? Seriously, all of the activities I enjoy seem to be “high risk” in these times.

    13. I hit a wall this week too. I got some bad news that’s not about Covid, though maybe affected by it (analogous, maybe, to not getting a job I really wanted). I know it’s OK to feel sad about the bad news, but all the stress, sadness, and anger about Covid that I’ve been repressing got wrapped up in my reaction to this other disappointment. I kindof lost it for a day or two, and I’m still feeling pretty pessimistic.

    14. Thank you all for understanding and sharing your feelings, too. Cat Socks’ explanation really hit home — I do feel like I’m grieving. I miss my old life. I want to go to concerts and have girls’ nights out with my friends. One of my friends is talking about having a “socially distanced” bonfire since we can now have gatherings, but we’re all a group of huggers and I know we’re going to have a tough time not hugging hello and goodbye. I feel like my old life is gone forever and I never got the chance to actually and adequately prepare for that. It bothers me that we could be looking at Round Two of this in the fall, which is my favorite season, and we could be spending the holidays isolated from family. Christmas in quarantine? I don’t even want to go there. I know grieving is a process and I guess we’re all somewhere in the middle of it.

      Anon at 11:32, I am so sorry about your bad news. That doesn’t help in the middle of all this. I hope everything is okay.

      I wish I could hug each and every one of you. I really, really do. You ladies are all the best.

      1. One of my closest friends has a side business making custom bow ties and he’s now making masks. I bought one, even though I don’t *need* another one because his fabrics are gorgeous. He dropped it off yesterday and we actually exchanged (via the porch) little gifties for each other. It absolutely killed me not to be able to hug him. We have been like family for 29 years! But he is vulnerable and there is absolutely no way that I would endanger him. I wore a mask and he wore a mask and we talked through the screen door and the kitty visited with her uncle as well. It’s really hard!!

      2. I hear you, Belle. One of my best friends lost her mother a few weeks ago, so several of us did a socially distanced outdoor visit and I am not sure it was not actually more painful than healing. Not hugging and crying together was just terrible. I sobbed in my car the entire way home.

        1. One of my students won student employee of the year. I knew that it was likely so I tuned in to watch the online awards ceremony. When it was announced, I burst into tears alone in my dining room. This is so hard! Both the lack of grieving and celebrating.

  10. I have about ten pounds I’d like to lose. I usually active and eat well, but working on the COVID response has impacted that a little. Getting back to mostly healthy meals and starting back up working out.

    I know everyone is different, but what worked for you for losing those last 10 pounds? I’d be interested in IF, but still working pretty long hours and working out after work so I just don’t think the timing is right.

    1. IDK but I was craving . . . salad of all things yesterday. Too much cooking of shelf-stable things lately. I think maybe our food quality has gone down (and my volume of yummy starches is waaaaaay up).

    2. I’d up your weight training. Cardio helps a lot, but cardio + lifting heavier was when I really started to move the needle on weight loss. Hard to duplicate that at home if you don’t have weights, but maybe start increasing your reps/sets of body weight exercises? Planks, hands to elbows, push ups, air squats, lunges, curtsy lunges, etc. That’s actually not a bad series – 10 push ups/1 minute plank/10 hands to elbows/10 air squats/10 reverse lunges (each side), 10 curtsy lunges (each side), repeat 3x and add in some cardio before/after.

      2. Agree with this. I would also highly recommend GORuck plates and bags. I got some for christmas (was gearing up to do a marathon w/ work people) but man I am so thankful for the weights now since everywhere else is sold out. The quality on the plates is fantastic and i can use them for all sorts of exercises (both with and without the bag).

        1. Oo, these are great- thanks! I was thinking of getting into backpacking (currently a day hiker), so these would do double duty

      3. You can google body weight workouts for more ideas. Seems many of these are published by men’s magazines, and they are kind of funny about getting all swole, but the exercises are legit.

      4. +1 to lifting + cardio – in particular, cardio intervals really worked for me. Google “tabata workouts” and you’ll find timing schemes and moves. Bodyweight options would be sprints, jumping squats or jumping lunges, burpees, jumprope – anything that gets your heart rate up fast.

    3. I do IF and it works for me as a simple way of watching what I eat. But, I’m still hanging onto the last ten lbs because I’m not ready to give up enough of my comfort eating foods. WhenI am serious about getting in shape, pilates is what works for me every time. There are a ton of equipment free classes online.

      1. Are there any of the online, equipment-free Pilates classes that you would especially recommend?

        1. Not the above person, but fitness blender lets you filter by type of workout, difficulty level, equipment, and duration.

    4. If it’s stress-related weight gain, then the best thing you can do is tackle that. Get better quality sleep by improving your sleep hygiene – take time to relax before bed, no screens in bed, don’t drink alcohol or eat within 2 hours of bedtime, go to sleep and wake up at the same time every day (if possible). If you can, get more sleep too. Drink more water. Drink less caffeine and alcohol. Invest more time in activities that refresh you (walk outside, sit in the sun, do a craft, read) and less time in activities that drain your limited free time and aren’t actually relaxing (TV, social media scrolling). For your diet – eat more healthy fats and fewer grains and sugars.

      1. +1 – I’ve lost 5ish lbs in quarantine so far because we only go to 1 store (whole foods) for our big weekly shopping and they don’t really have ‘snacks’ in the same way that the big box stores do. I’ll grab tortilla chips/popcorn but there isn’t the option of the Lays snack pack, or the ‘good’ cookies (oreos!) or the candy aisle/etc. etc. etc. And our local trader joes keeps shutting down with Covid-19 cases so I’ve been avoiding it entirely (and man do they have the BEST snacks). I’m not exercising as much, and I haven’t given up anything else (still baking and eating my homemade treats, drinking on weekends, etc.) so it was really eye-opening just how much all those snack-y calories were adding up and how much replacing them with mostly ‘whole’ or homemade foods helped.

    5. Calorie counting worked for me. I usually ate the same things for breakfast and lunch for ease. IF did not work for me – I felt terrible and it was impossible to fit into my schedule.

    6. My body cannot do IF. I feel awful and lightheaded going too long without eating. What helps me when I’m looking to lose 5-10 pounds is lots of planning. Same breakfast and healthy morning/afternoon snack every day plus a rotating option of 2-3 lunches and a rotating option of 2-3 dinners. Since I know exactly how many calories/macros/nutrients I’m getting from that, I can somewhat count calories without actually counting calories (which I can’t do without spiraling into disordered eating). I usually give myself one or two “cheat” dinners each week to look forward to that include one splurge (either a dessert or something decadent like french fries). Also, not sure if relevant but cutting out drinking also helps me lose weight pretty fast. No empty calories plus no buzzed snacking (it’s so much easier to eat through the whole bag of chips without noticing after a few glasses of wine).

      1. I feel like IF only really works w/low carb or possibly unusually excellent blood sugar control. Once I’ve eaten carbs, I have to eat again before long.

        1. Oh interesting, I’m actually mildly more successful when I’ve eaten (complex) carbs. If I’m low carb, I last even shorter time periods without eating before I feel like I’m going to faint or throw up.

    7. What worked for me was calorie tracking with MyFitness Pal, which included buying a kitchen scale so I could be accurate. Also I think I tend toward IF but not really intentionally, I just don’t get hungry until late morning.

    8. I exercise as many days a week as I can and I always have stuff for salads in the house. Lots of fruits and vegetables! I love salads – greens with fruit and chicken and a little blue cheese with just balsamic vinegar. I cook the chicken once a week and eat it for days. If I had to think about what I was eating, I probably wouldn’t eat as well.

  11. Has anyone tried these or any other Athleta joggers? Normally I kind of hate joggers, but I need more variety in my wfh/lounge pants. I’m getting tired of leggings and my 1 pair of sweat pants (PJ Salvage – so so nice).

    1. I have Trekkie joggers from several years ago, which are this silhouette but more of a cargo-type look. I’m happy with them. They retain their shape and are thick but stretchy. They’d be good for hiking but probably not yoga-type workouts.

      1. I have 2 pairs of the Venice joggers and love them. Originally got them as a travel pant because they’re actually way more comfortable than leggings for long flights, and had to get a 2nd pair when WFH started. They’re incredibly comfy but still look pretty put together so I feel they’re worth the price as I can also casually wear them out.

    2. I have the Sutton joggers in 2 colors and LOVE them! I don’t like wearing leggings unless I’m working out, and the joggers have been a great compromise for casual wear that I actually feel OK wearing out and about. They are pricey but worth the cost, IMO.

    3. I am currently wearing the Athleta Salutation jogger in Powervita and I am so very comfortable. I have thick thighs and a booty for days. The shape and fabric are worth the $89 price tag.

      1. I posted above, but I have these pants in two colors and wear them all the time. I suggest sizing down if you are undecided.

      1. I bought these thanks to your recommendation (I think it was you) and I love them! Thanks for the tip. Agree that they run large.

  12. Any recommendations for workouts that include social anxiety and stats? Before this, I was going to spin class at a place with new bikes and a computer that emailed me stats. The combination of social anxiety (fear of slacking and instructor or someone near me noticing pushed me harder all class) and Type A (stats meant I could compare one day or week to the next) worked super well for me. Now with lockdown, I don’t have either of those. I’m currently weight stable but feeling like it’ll be a while before joining a gym is safe so I need to figure out something that works with my motivators as, when left on my own, I am zero percent motivated!

    1. Sign up for Strava – it’s a social network for fitness – people log their workouts and comment on them.

    2. I’m sure others will have more concrete ideas, but I did a Peloton workout on their app this weekend (NOT with a bike, I don’t like spin even normally, one of their cardio classes) & it seemed like you could do it live (accountability) & it also seems like they track stats if you so desire.

    3. I liked using ‘map my run’ (I think?) when I was training for longer road races. The stats on pace, distance and time were helpful and motivating, but it just me on my runs so no pressure to be competitive. But they did paid version that allowed you to show your stats see others. I liked doing that with an accountability buddy that was training with me.

    4. I’m also such a stats person, so I’m obsessed with my Fitbit. I track steps, distance, active minutes, calories, flights of steps but also sleep (amount and quality). I use it to to track water intake and calories.

      What I love most about it is the heart rate feature. I’m a former athlete and a lot of our training in college was done at heart rate, so I love being able to continue this metric. I 100% recommend getting a heart rate monitor if you’re a stats person.

      Being a former athlete, I also have a hard time working out alone and without a coach. Working out alongside my teammates, having my coach both a) create the workout and b) yell at us if we were slacking, and having fitness tests and erg tests on a regular basis kept me honest. Without workout classes due to COVID, I don’t have a great workaround. I have a few friends who are workout accountability partners. We text each other once we’re done with that day’s workout, and I have a few very concrete goals. Aside from that, no good advice.

    5. If you’re up for buying equipment, indoor rowing is great for data geeks! I really miss syncing my ErgData app to a Concept2 at the local studio and then logging my workouts, tracking my progress.

      And if you can’t buy an erg for your home, definitely look into indoor rowing studios when all this is over, you’d love it!

    6. If you purchase the Peloton bike I believe it will provide the experience you are looking for. My understanding is using the Peloton app with other bikes won’t provide as much social pressure or stats.

      1. There are also ads for the NordicTrack bike which is about half the price of Peloton but still provide the interactive class experience. We’ve loved all the NordicTrack equipment that we’ve purchased (but haven’t purchased this bike).

  13. Random question – does anyone drink instant coffee? I was reading something the other day that mentioned some European country where instant coffee is actually the norm and not considered down-market, but they drink better stuff. Of course, I can’t remember what country it was, what instant coffee they drink, or where I read this. But it got me thinking that, since I only drink coffee at work once a week or so, it would be a lot easier to use instant coffee than my k-cup stash. While I like really good coffee at home, at work it’s more utilitarian.
    Does anyone know any good brands?

    1. It may have been in the UK. It’s less true in the last ten years because of Nespresso pods, but many people don’t have coffee machines at home. I used to use (2019) a filter cone + paper in the office and people would make remarks about my fancy coffee set up. I suspect it’s because it’s the best match with how we make tea – pop a bag in the cup, add hot water, then milk/sugar if you want. I like the cafedirect instant if you can get it

    2. I’d guess UK but that’s probably because they drink a lot more tea and are not known to be into coffee. When DH and I go backpacking we usually take Starbucks instant (VIA sticks) and that’s decent. He’s European and picky about his coffee FWIW.

    3. I studied abroad in the Balkans. The only two coffee options were Turkish and instant (aside from cafes where macchiatos were very common). Instant was relatively common since Turkish is a little more intensive.

      The very social media popular dalgona coffee was also popular, which makes sense since it’s made with instant coffee.

        1. I am so not a coffee person, but used to live next to Turkey and can confirm that this brings me back in such a good way. #TeamTurkishOrInstant!

    4. The Starbucks Via packets are drinkable. Not my favorite coffee by any means, but it’ll do for a 2 p.m. work coffee.

    5. Try an instant coffee produced by a “third wave” coffee roaster. I live in Chapel Hill, so the only one I’ve tried is from Carrboro Coffee. A bonus is that you can use instant coffee granules to make that whipped “Dalgona” coffee that’s still trending right now.

    6. (please read in the disdainful tone of a coffee snob) What? I thought K-cups were the easiest, tastiest thing in the world? They are not? I am simply shocked!

      1. I’m the furthest thing from a coffee snob but k-cups are not good, even by my low standards. They’re a weak, watery mess.

    7. I keep a jar of Cafe Bustelo instant in my desk at work for when I need caffeine mid-afternoon. It’s cheaper than the Starbucks Via instant coffees and in terms of taste, I would say it’s “fine in a pinch.”

      I have also gotten those Copper Cow pourover Vietnamese coffee kits and those are actually pretty good, but because of the use of condensed milk they’re pretty sugary. I drink them more as a treat than as coffee.

    8. I will happily drink instant coffee over lots of “proper” coffee. You don’t get very full acidic tones, so if that’s what you like, you probably won’t enjoy instants. I only drink black and unsweetened coffee, if you do stuff to it it might be different for you.

      Mount Hagen instant coffee is quite good, for what it is. Even the decaff tastes decent. I also think lots of instant espresso coffees tastes okay, even from Nestlé, to make “Americano” style/long black. These are often from Arabica beans.

    9. I’m in the UK, and I do. I drink the NESCAFÉ Azera Americano, which is marketed as a barista-style instant coffee. It’s pretty good; much better than basic instant, and closer to the sort of coffee I buy at coffee shops.

    11. I use instant espresso powder for baking occasionally but now you have me curious. I guess if I were to try it I would need to get a fresh jar? Mine is so old I don’t remember buying it.

      (Says the person with a fully pressurized espresso machine, several French presses in various sizes, a chemex, lots of pour over equipment, a burr grinder, and an electric gooseneck kettle *facepalm* We even roasted our own beans for a while – air popper method)

      1. *(oh, and a bona fide shoulder injury from using an Aeropress. Yes, I had a repetitive coffee injury)

    12. I have this issue too! The OXO pour over uses real coffee. You need paper filters but it takes up way less space than a Keurig, more environmentally friendly, is faster than Keurig (slower than instant though)!and tastes better!

  14. Does anyone have any tips for conducting depositions via zoom? Online articles are pretty vague, does anyone have some real non-obvious best practices tips? Thank you!

    2. The court reporters have platforms now that allow exhibits to be uploaded in advance and controlled by the questioning attorney, such that the deponent does not have access to the PDF unless/until introduced. But if that is not the case and you’re relying on paper exhibits, have exhibits sent to the witness in sealed envelopes and have the witness open the envelope on the record in front of the camera when you are introducing each exhibit. Do the audio connection separately (via conference line) so that if there is an internet issue you don’t have an audio lag. Also if using a reporter service, they will typically have multiple video streams – the exhibit, the video streams for participants, and the livefeed of the transcript with scrolling – that is a lot to have on one screen and each box ends up being very small, so you will want multiple monitors, ideally one for the video stream and one for the exhibits/livefeed. Make sure your witness and all participants have very clear instructions on how to connect and how to troubleshoot common tech issues.

      1. +1 to all of this, and I would also suggest setting up practice sessions with opposing counsel (have one of the lawyers pretend to be the witness) beforehand so everyone is on board and comfortable with whichever service you use. And separate practice sessions for you if taking and you/your witness if defending so you don’t waste record time working everything out. If you are defending, make sure your witness’s background looks ok and the camera is situated so it doesn’t look like they are staring off to the side/down/etc.

    3. Not Zoom, but I saw a demo of Huseby Reporting’s video depo software recently and was very impressed, and they raised some points in the demo I probably wouldn’t have thought of. Even if you aren’t using them, you might see if you can get the demo just to help think through things that may come up and could be applicable to zoom or other platforms.

  15. Has anyone taken advantage of this stay at home situation to start new/good habits?

    1. I’ve been better about meditations when I am feeling stressed during the day and falling asleep to sleep stories (instead of to my own overthinking). I use the calm app and it is super helpful to me, plus it has a calendar feature to show when you have a running streak of using the app at least once per day which motivates me not to skip a day!

      Otherwise, I’ve been baking more, which I love and is a huge stress reliever… the problem is, it means I’m eating more baked goods, which isn’t such a great habit haha

    2. Right before this started, I was trying to start walking during lunch, which has of course become much easier now that I’m at home, but I’m hoping that I’ll be able to continue when I get back into the office. I do a 45-60 minute walk everyday around the lunch hour (depending on meetings) and just bring my phone in case anyone needs me. It’s made such a difference in the quality of my day it’s almost silly.

    3. Less food waste and a sign up for a CSA, more working out, more sleep, new hobby (knitting). I have really missed my outdoor hobbies and the two trips I had planned, but I haven’t been bored. I also updated our emergency kit, which is always important when you live in California.

    4. I started running 4 times a week – I finished a 5k training program and am now on a 10k one. Sunday I ran 60 minutes which is the longest I’ve ever gone. I used to lift though, so this is less of a new habit, and more of a changed habit, which helps with my mood and I’m surprisingly enjoying the running. The other 3 days I do yoga which I’m enjoying much less.
      I also have been doing an ab circuit ~4ish times a week and have been stretching to do the splits (lol) following Blogilates 30 days to the splits! I’m about halfway through – not looking hopeful so far.
      Also, DH and I have been listing 3 things we’re grateful for every night. That’s the best one I’d love to continue even after this is over

    6. I’m back to making my own bread on a regular basis and now have a veg delivery box (like a CSA). Also barre workouts 3 times a week

    7. I’ve finally been able to start working out regularly – meaning 3-4 times a week. FitnessBlender was having a huge discount on some of their pre-packaged workout programs so I bought some of those. They are just collections of videos they already have, but I like following a plan so it’s one less decision I have to make during the day. I actually look for ways to include an exercise routine in my day rather than finding reasons to avoid it. I don’t know when I’ll be going back to the office, but I hope I can keep it up.

    9. My house is pretty clean because I’m home and can stick to a regular cleaning schedule. Normally we have cleaners coming in 2x/month for deep cleans.

    10. After years of trying and failing to have an at home yoga practice, I’m doing pretty well. Joining a live class with my local studio 3 times a week and doing at least 5 sun salutations the other days. It’s really convinced me I can make this work, even in my small space with a busy schedule. I mean, I have to clear away the matchbox cars and am often joined by the cat, but I’m doing it. And even with just 5 sun salutations, I’m seeing a difference in my arm strength in plank.

    11. I’m eating a lot better because with no eating out I’m completely in charge of my food. I’ve gotten in the habit of eating only half my Blue Apron dinner portion and taking the rest to work for lunch, which is great.

      At first we were letting the house get pretty cluttered and dirty because we were home a lot and cooking a lot, but a week or two in we changed course and now we are clean and neat and it feels really good.

      Hubby and I are taking a nice long walk almost every day before dinner and that is great for a variety of reasons.

      Income is down but expenses are down more so I am socking money away for a rainier day.

    12. Not being rushed by commuting and stressed by my job (I’m laid off but I hated that job so I’m ok) has been wonderful for my relationship with my husband and kids. I already feel a tinge if regret for when we inevitably go back to our normal lives, but hopefully we’ve all learned new habits that we will carry forward.

      Not that it’s rosy all the time – we bicker due to so much togetherness, but the togetherness also means we get over it sooner. Overall it’s a huge improvement over before.

    13. 3x walks during the sunshine hours of the day with my dog. It’s great! One before work, one during the day in between meetings/calls, and one before the end of the work day. Replaying my (short walking) commute with a 1 mile dog walk has done wonders for evening me out in terms of mood.

      Orange theory daily workouts on video. Free. Posted daily so I don’t have to choose or filter.

    14. I have purged a bit and my kitchen is cleaner than usual. Oh, and I have never flossed more in my entire life.

    16. As luck would have it, I came into possession of a new-to-me piano in March from a friend who is downsizing. I took 8 or 9 years of lessons as a kid/teen, but haven’t played at all since then. (And I’m old, so that was a loooooong time ago, LOL.) It sounds crazy to say, but I think this piano has saved me during lockdown. It’s my form of meditation — I can’t really think about anything other than which key I’m supposed to hit and how long to hold each note. I really want to take lessons once that’s a possibility again, but in the meantime I’ve been working every day on re-familiarizing myself with reading music and have actually improved enough to play a few relatively easy (but not beginner level) pieces. It’s also my boundary between work time and home time. Once I’m done working, I play for 45-60 minutes and then go hang out with my husband. Just writing this is making me crave it….

      Also, I’m being much better about walking for both my mental and physical health. I can’t say I’m disciplined enough to do it every day, and especially not when I’m feeling depressed/anxious, but it definitely helps me feel better.

  16. Hello ladies, I’m in a sappy mood so here goes. I’m just so incredibly blessed by the kindest, smartest and most collaborative co-workers. I feel like I need to pinch myself. After so many bad jobs I’m just genuinely….happy. This job has done more for me than any form of self help or care. So cheers to my job because it’s the best I’ve ever had and I’m so lucky. Bonus is that it’s my “dream job” yet still managed to blow expectations out of the water.

    1. Good for you! Glad you have it and that you are able to enjoy it. I’m in a situation right now where all my coworkers are just OK. No one is a jerk or bad at their jobs, but none of them are inspiring or admirable. I had some really great coworkers at my old job who were so smart, capable and collaborative that they just naturally made me want to work harder too. It’s so nice to have colleagues like that.

    4. That’s so great. I think people underestimate the power of great co-workers. Even better that you are working with amazing people in your dream job!!
      I appreciate my teammates so much. They make a job I could do for pretty much any firm, so much better.

  17. Ideas for food for a socially distanced birthday party for 8 people? I am going to put food on outside table and let people serve themselves.

    It needs to be something that wouldn’t require a knife or not get too messy. I don’t have a bunch of tables so people will be eating out of their laps or standing up.

    2. The bigger trick is that serving from the same serving spoons wouldn’t be safe… you could do different pastas or salads and a person just chooses one, uses their fork to take from the large dish (wearing masks so no one breaths on the food), then distances enough, removes mask, and eats, then puts mask back on for socializing again. Otherwise, you may be better to plate food in the kitchen and put plates out so people aren’t near anyone else’s food or the common food. I, too, had a covid birthday (though mine was in the first week of lockdown so it was brand new to everyone) and we just didn’t gather. My cousin had one a month later and only those in her home celebrated because trying to figure out food plus removing masks to eat plus touching used plates and utensils and such later all seemed annoying at best, risky at worst. Also, I wonder if we’ll ever go back to blowing out candles or if that’ll forever now be considered risky. Weird to think about tiny traditions changing! Happy Birthday, may this be your only lockdown birthday ever! :)

    3. What about just a simple pizza + cake buffet? With maybe some bowls of pre-portioned salad for those who want it? And a cooler full of beer cans and individual wine bottles?

    4. I don’t think people will go for this. People are either worried about sharing food or they aren’t. There is nothing you can do to make it seem safe enough for people in the former group, and those in the latter group don’t care.

      1. I agree. If you are ordering, I would just order some kind of pre-boxed lunch or food, stack them, and then people grab their box. Handling the same serving utensils seems like a no-go right now, unless everyone committed to hand sanitizer before and after, which just makes the whole thing more nerve-wracking.

        1. I think this is the best idea.

          Actually I think the best idea is not doing it but that’s just me.

      2. Yeah, I agree with this – people fall into one of two camps here (which is okay! we all can have our own comfort level). But I disagree with Senior Attorney about not doing it – if it’s within your state’s guidelines, I think having some semblance of normalcy is good.

    5. Box lunches (sandwiches, individual pizza slices, etc.?) with utensils and sides included within the lunch. After the article about the Chicago cases that came from a birthday party,, shared takeout containers, and funeral, I wouldn’t want to have anything that has to be shared or touched multiple people. Hospitals in my area have made clear their expectations for food delivery along those lines (also single serve beverages), so if you call a restaurant and explain what you want to do they may be able to package appropriately.

      1. A LOT of companies do these for meetings – au bon pain, jersey mikes, panera, etc. It’s pretty common, you just may need to speak to their catering person.

    6. Plated food? Or individually wrapped sandwiches and/or entrees and salads. Think along the lines of a big conference where people walk thru the line (though here have them walk up individually so no line) and pick up what they want + airplane style (everything individually packaged bc unlike a conference of pre covid you don’t want people taking sandwiches off the same tray or using the same spoon for pasta or salad or whatever).

      I also wouldn’t do real dishes and forks because someone will have to wash those or at least rinse before putting in a dishwasher and forks have been in others mouths. So paper/disposable everything.

      Either do cupcakes which are the easiest (and you can put a candle on the birthday persons) and plate them so people just grab a plate with a cupcake rather than putting hands in a box of cupcakes. Or if you want to do cake, no candles and cut it up and plate it so again people are grabbing a plate of cake and not cutting themselves a piece with the same knife.

    7. Honestly I think it’ll just be too much work and too risky. What if you yourself are asymptomatic but spread it to your loved ones by preparing food? What if someone doesn’t wash their hands well? I wouldn’t do it.

      Do a 10 ft apart BYOB circle with masks on if you must but sharing food seems like a big no-no right now.

    8. I honestly don’t get this obsession with birthdays right now. I’ve been invited to more than one weird birthday “party.” Just skip a birthday or 2 or 3, rather than throwing a “party” where you try to mimic what was but with surgical sterility. It isn’t fun. No one really wants to be there. Just buy yourself a meal or a cake if you’re eating out or make/bake one and be done with it.

      2. Eh. I skipped my birthday party a few weeks ago, but if others are going insane over the new world, and trying to recreate a semblance of what was, and it gives them hope, I’m not gonna judge. There is enough other crazy sh!t out there to judge.

      3. As someone who has skipped out on celebrating a lot of life events over the last 3 years, I disagree.

        Because my family is crazy and toxic, I didn’t have a bridal shower or engagement party. My family insulted me at my own wedding, to the point where my friends and my husband’s guests asked me WTF their problem was. No baby shower, because see above. Baby’s baptism has been postponed indefinitely (toxic people not invited, and I DGAF if it ‘looks bad’ to not have a single member of my own family there). Birthday was during quarantine. First ever Mother’s Day, quarantine.

        At this point, I’m almost numb to it, and it’s not a good thing. If people want to get themselves boxed lunches to celebrate a birthday, power to them. An invitation is not a summons, so if an invited guest does not want to go because it won’t be fun, she can say that she’s still social distancing and send her best.

      4. I’ve literally never celebrated a birthday with a big thing (other than a group dinner followed by bars for my 21st) but I totally get why people want to celebrate birthdays, especially now more than ever.

      5. “No one really wants to be there.”

        This isn’t true. You’re a total grouch and you don’t want to be there, so don’t go. Invitation != summons. But other people want to and will have fun without you.

      6. I get it, I truly do. It just seems to be a smaller or equal risk to me to have 7 other people outside eating out of to-go boxes (who are similarly responsible and rule following people) standing or sitting 6 feet apart as it is to go to the grocery store, where people are not following social distancing, touching everything in sight, and not wearing masks (at least where I am). I am willing to accept some level of risk in my life at this point.

        I think pre-made boxes is probably the best option.

    9. Cupcakes instead of cake. Maybe meals from a deli with sandwiches/chips in boxes?

    10. Don’t serve food at all, is all I have to say. I would nope right out of any communal dining right now.

      1. This. BYO or order individual meals from a restaurant, or one pizza per group coming. I’m not even high risk, but I won’t accept food from other people and wouldn’t want to make food for others, either.

      1. Clearly, I must drink too much but I was just going to get everyone their own full sized bottle!

  18. Advice for limiting transition time between tasks? As I’ve gotten more senior, my ratio of billable to worked time has been decreasing. I’m doing more discrete tasks on a greater number of matters. I think I’m losing a lot of time transitioning between short tasks. What do you do to keep yourself on task?

    1. Following with interest because I have the same problem. Previous techniques were to walk around the office floor to grab a chat/drink/snack, which just led to eating too much and a lot of non-billable time to “informal meetings”, so would not recommend.

    2. I think this just comes with the territory of becoming more senior. You don’t spend 4 hours drafting a brief anymore – you’re constantly switching between various tasks. To me, that’s a different issue than not being productive. Also, I use a hard copy lined sheet that shows the entire day’s hours and 6-minute increments and that way, I can jot down what I’m doing when and see if there is time in between that’s not accounted for. Sometimes, I’ll realize I took a call on something or sent an email during that time, sometimes it’s spent surfing the web or talking to the kids between classes and sometimes I’m just reviewing emails, but at least I know.

    3. Pomodoro timer plus very detailed to-do list (instead of ‘Call Brenda’ write ‘get last quarter’s revenue numbers from Brenda’) help somewhat.

    4. I have also read about batching similar tasks together for less mental transitions. This often takes to much planning for me but when I can get my act together it is helpful.

    5. I worked in venture and had many clients ask me tiny questions all day, in biglaw. I found I lost a lot of time unless I was ruthless about writing down every single thing, because several of the small tasks would batch to a .3 or .4 for a client over the course of the day, but only if I wrote them down. Along the same vein, you need to really capture those .2s (not .1s–my firm doesn’t allow them).

      This is the very best tip:
      “Also, I use a hard copy lined sheet that shows the entire day’s hours and 6-minute increments and that way, I can jot down what I’m doing when and see if there is time in between that’s not accounted for.”

      And also know that being more senior inherently involves more admin work–prepping for internal meetings, bizdev, internal planning meetings (those were also frowned upon billing at my firms). Your realization rate does go down unless you’re doing deep work on the same client for hours at a time.

  19. I’m feeling really bummed out about my quarantine situation today, and looking for some advice.
    I have an apartment in the middle of a VHCOL city that I share with 2 roommates (all in our late 20s). We all have been staying with our parents since the city was shut down, since there’s really not much room to work in our apartment and almost no natural light (not an issue before now because we were so often out during the day). We were hoping to be back at our offices in the next month or so, but my main client just announced the majority of their workforce is not expected to return to the office until at least September, and I just heard from someone that my company is likely to announce we won’t be going back until 2021.
    My lease is up in August, and I’m trying to figure out what to do about it. Should I renew and keep paying rent and hope I can figure out a solution where I can move back in and set up a true WFH situation there? Should I try to negotiate going month-to-month and buy myself some time to see if we get back to the office by the winter? Should I try to move out of the city to an apartment where I could have more space and/or a car? I love my apartment and my roommates, and the thought of never being able to go back to my “normal” city life is really depressing me.
    Complicating this is the fact that I was hoping to take an international assignment starting next summer with my firm (they haven’t said whether these are cancelled or not so I’m holding out hope although I obviously know it’s unlikely at this point), and I would then be moving again so would have the expense and hassle of moving twice in one year + selling a car if I buy one.

    1. 1st, do your roommates want to renew? I can’t imagine trying to find new roommates during this time so that may be a decision answerer right there.

      2nd, if multiple roommates need to work from the apartment, can it be done or would you want to move?
      2nd and a half, could you or would you want to work from where you are now or somewhere new?

      3rd, is the month to month price different and something all roommates would agree to?

      4th, it sounds like you don’t actually want to move (since you called it a hassle to move twice- understandable but maybe telling about what you want).

      If it was all up to you, it sounds like you love your place and your roommates and don’t know whether something will happen in a year, so the only question is whether you and roommates could figure out how to work from home together. Maybe the solution isn’t to focus on “should I move?” but instead “how can we reconfigure the apartment for 3 separate workspaces?” (Bedroom desk options, kitchen options, etc. to discuss)

      Hope this is helpful… even if you realize I am super wrong about something, maybe that reaction will give you guidance into what you really want!

      1. The lease is up in August so I think we have to tell them if we’re planning to renew by the end of July.

          1. I agree. Things are changing so fast now that I feel like trying to plan this far ahead isn’t all that productive.

    3. I think you have to consider that it won’t be the same even if you do go back. Your needs have shifted & if it’s a bad place to work/be home a lot in as things stand today then I think it’s time to move on. I’d end the lease, and maybe consider waiting it out a bit longer at your parents until it becomes clearer whether you’ll be traveling for work, returning to the city, or need to rent elsewhere & buy a car.

    4. You mentioned you won’t be going back to the office until September or next year, but what about your roommates? What are their expectations and employers’ plans? If they anticipate going back to work earlier and you’re the only one WFH, this might be a non-issue. Or maybe your city will “reopen” just enough to allow people to work from coffee shops, libraries, etc. so you guys could rotate who works in the apartment and who goes elsewhere. Or would it really be terrible to have people coworking in the living room? I guess if you’re all on Zoom for most of the day it could get noisy.

      I prefer stability so I’d probably plan to renew the lease and try to make it work with the apartment, assuming everyone else wanted to do the same.

  20. I just had to share some good news, even without our Good Morning poster. I just found out that two of my friends, one widowed and one divorced, are head over heels in love. I would have been happy for them under any circumstances, but this bright spot in a dark time has really, really brightened my spirits.

    2. Aw, that’s so nice! I posted something similar once, doubt anyone remembers, but it was the best feeling to know that my aunt, one of the greatest women I know, finally found the love of her life at age 66 after several absolutely terrible relationships/marriages. It’s SUCH a spirit-brightener to see that kind of thing.

      1. I don’t remember that, PI, but I love it! Later-in-life love stories are wonderful.

    4. Awww! That’s so cute. Thank you for sharing it with us.

    5. That is such wonderful news!!!! I love love, and this brightened my day. Thank you for sharing, and all the best to your two friends!

  21. I’d love to get some makeup recommendations! I tend to prefer the kind of blush that comes in a push-up stick and is applied directly to your cheeks, then you blend with your fingertips, or the stuff that comes in a tube and you dispense it onto your fingertips. Nothing against powder, of course, I have some powder blushes I wear occasionally, it’s just not my first choice of, I dunno, format I guess.

    Alas, my two go-to cheek colors are off the market; RIP Tarte Flush (cheek stain) and Maybelline Master Glaze blush, you will both be missed. I still have a little of each product, and I’m not wearing makeup most days so this isn’t exactly an emergency, but I’d still like to find a replacement. I got a sample of Milk’s lip and cheek color that seems promising, but if any of you know of a similar product that you really like, I’d love to hear about it!

    3. Fenty just launched a line of cream blushes that have received good reviews. If you have dark skin (as in ethnic dark not European tan) they lean quite sheer but on lighter skin they are, at least to me, a perfect level of buildable opaque.

      1. Good to know! I do have fairly fair skin, so that’s something to cheek out.

    5. I’ve been really pleased with my NARS The Multiple. It’s lasted me ages, and I’d definitely re-buy.

      1. +1 I have two colors in the stick, one is more of a highlighter really, and I love them.

    7. I like Maybelline Cheek Heat cream/tube. Lush. I loved their bouncy blush but alas it’s discontinued.

    9. I love MILK Makeup Lip + Cheek. It even comes in min-sizes to try out colors.

    10. Not technically a blush, but I love Benefit’s Watt’s Up! Cream Highlighter. I am super pale and I wear it like blush.

  22. I know this has been covered but I cant find an old thread. What apps do lawyers recommend for tracking their time? I recently switched to a different in house role that requires me to track my time on certain projects and am looking for something simple.

  23. Tutoring Companies —
    Is anybody using or working for a tutoring company that either does live tutoring or provides written feedback to students online? I’m thinking of seeking out part-time work doing this, but a lot of them have wacky hours to suit overseas students/very low independent contractor wages/want you to go to student homes/ or are sites that take fees for simply posting your profile.

    I know it’s not particularly lucrative but I’m hoping to discover some quality companies if anyone has firsthand experience. Smarthinking? Brainfuse? Sylvan Learning? Does your school or library offer tutoring? On top of that idk if this would be a waste of time to job search right now because there is not much demand or if people are engaging online tutors. Do you think there’s interest?

    High school/college English is my area though I’m open to younger grades or ESL too. Any thoughts or alternative suggestions?

  24. Before all the shutdowns, I worked out twice a week in a small water aerobics class. Small indoor pool, between 3-5 people. My state is reopening (despite increasing numbers of cases, sigh) including gyms, so I imagine it’s only a matter of time before my instructor contacts me about restarting classes. I live with my parents, both around 70 years, though with no other risk factors. I may have already had coronavirus but no testing was available then. My instinct is to say no to restarting class, as even if I avoid the changing room and go home wrapped in a towel, I still would be working out in somewhat confined space. Am I being too cautious? I’ve read articles about gym safety, etc, but nothing about indoor pools. For what it’s worth, I do wear a mask when I am in public, and have been socially distancing since the beginning.

    1. Everyone’s risk tolerance and personal situation is different. There isn’t a right or wrong answer.

    2. Following! And also wondering about gym safety generally?? My gym sent an email this morning regarding re-opening dates, and I just feel like there’s too much huffing and puffing going on in gyms, and I’m seriously wondering if people will even bother wearing masks. Right now I’m leaning to cancelling my membership. What are others doing?

      FWIW in response to this question – I feel like pools would be pretty bad offenders because droplets in the water – but maybe chemicals are effective enough at killing this? I really don’t know!

      1. I’d feel safe going to a fitness studio with reduced class sizes and mandatory masks (they could even sell branded masks in the lobby for extra revenue), especially if they have staff sanitizing things between classes.

        1. Yes, this is kinda what I’m thinking about my yoga studio – go, bring my own mat, stay spaced, etc. But for the normal gym with free weights, shared treadmills etc. I’ll probably skip for now.

      2. The CDC reported on March 10 that “there is no evidence that COVID-19 can be spread to humans through the use of pools and hot tubs. Proper operation, maintenance, and disinfection (e.g., with chlorine and bromine) of pools and hot tubs should remove or inactivate the virus that causes COVID-19.”

        1. Yeah–while the CDC says that COVID doesn’t spread through pools, I can say that as a water polo player, it would take about two days for a severe cold to spread through my team. We certainly were breathing right in one another’s faces, but lap swimming is probably not that much different. If bicyclists are supposed to stay out of the slipstream, swimmers should too.

          1. You were all in the locker room together though right? It’s close contact with other people that’s a risk, not sharing the same pool water.

      3. To each their own but no way I’m going back to a gym ever. Never liked them to start with as I’m not a gym rat type and always thought it was gross to be around other people’s sweat. Think about how much is huffed and puffed into the air and then is carried around thru the air in whatever direction the HVAC is flowing (which you can’t know in a commercial building). I don’t think masks help here because these aren’t N95s and there is just a LOT of air coming out of people. And then there’s the sweat. I know people say you don’t touch others sweat at the gym because people wipe down but really you do. All the hand grips on machines etc. have been soaked in sweat over years + how do you know how thoroughly anyone is wiping anything down. I think gyms will make a show of wiping down equipment thoroughly for a week or 2 — having employees do it — and then once traffic resumes, it’ll be patrons doing it themselves with varying attention to detail. And we don’t yet know that this is NOT passed by sweat; maybe it isn’t but all the research is so preliminary but why risk it?

        1. I am a gym rat, at least in that I went to the gym 5 days a week and used the treadmill, the weight machines and participated in yoga classes. I am high risk, with a chronic lung condition, and will not be returning to the gym. The classes at my gym (A Y) were crowded. I frequently got there as the doors were opening, so I was the first one on the equipment after it had sat for a few hours, but I just can’t. It makes me sad, since I can’t find an at home work out routine that I enjoy, and going to the gym actually made me happy. But I just can’t.

        2. I for one will go back to the gym the day it opens. I really love going to group fitness classes and there’s something about the communal aspect of the gym that I just can’t replicate working out at home by myself. Going to the gym is something I truly enjoy and have really been missing. That’s why I’ll be risking it.

      4. Actually the chemicals in a pool do kill the virus. The time actually swimming is not an issue at all.

    3. If you lived alone and were a healthy below 50 yr old I’d say go. But living with two 70 + yr olds it is not worth the risk and I don’t think you’d ever forgive yourself if you got them sick by going to a gym class. We all have to weigh risks right now and living with vulnerable family members has to go in that calculation.

    4. If a pool is small enough that it only fits and instructor and 3-5 people, you shouldn’t be going. The enclosed space is bad enough for you but with 70 yr old parents, it’s not a risk I’d take – they have a very high chance of not making it through (or without severe disability going forward) if they contract the virus and lowering their chances of getting it is the best course of action right now.

      1. This is my thought as well. If it’s an indoor pool that can fit way more than that, but only a few people come AND everyone wears masks, maybe there’s a different risk calculation.

        I am not going to a gym for quite a while because what I’ve read indicates that transmission is more likely the longer people are in an indoor space together, and the point of being in a gym or other exercise area is to breathe heavily (therefore expelling more droplets). In my area, you must have air conditioning or fans going because of the climate. I hate this because my small boutique fitness class is the only exercise that’s ever held my attention for this long, and I love it. It just seems like such a risk right now that I don’t feel comfortable.

    5. I’ve heard pools are generally safer than gyms, due to the chlorinated water (although my state is opening pools, even outdoor ones, after gyms, so who knows – but I suspect it may just be that the gym lobby is more powerful than the pool lobby). That said, if I was living with 70 year olds I would not leave the house for anything except groceries and medical care. Being 70 is in and of itself a huge risk factor.

      1. Same, I would risk it myself if living with people who do not have risk factors, but would not risk a even a small chance of killing a parent.

    6. If I were you I’d get an antibody test so that if you did have it you’ll know for sure.

      1. Yeah, everybody I know who was sure they’d already had it (including my husband and me) ended up testing negative for antibodies.

        1. SA, there was never any way that the cold you had in February was coronavirus.

          My state’s chief medical officer recently told us that if all the people who were sure they had it had actually had it, it would have meant the virus was WAY MORE prevalent and thus we would have seen a corresponding increase in hospitalizations/deaths/etc.

          1. Don’t be so snarky. There was early community spread in California, and people died, we just did not know it was C-19 because our government decided to only test people with a limited set of symptoms and China travel. A local death of heart attack was just reclassified after her labs were finally analyzed and there will be more reclassifications of pneumonia deaths as well.

          2. It’s not likely, and I don’t think she said she was “sure” she had it, but it was possible. She’s in the LA area (so am I ) and someone here had it in January. And that person hadn’t traveled so it was in the community. I think either more people have had it than believed, or the virus is less infectious than originally thought, because there was definitely some low-level community spread in the US from January to March.

    7. No way. You’d be touching things at the pool, no? That towel you wrap yourself in has to go somewhere like on a chair during the class. Unless you are walking in in a suit, your clothes also have to go somewhere. You’re sharing close space with 3-5 other people? Sure chlorine maybe (and I wouldn’t get too wrapped up in that conclusion these are very early studies and they’re still learning) kills whatever people are sweating into the water but it isn’t necessarily killing whatever huffs and puffs out of their mouths which then floats around with the internal HVAC until it lands someplace and is killed either via chlorine or with time. Even if you didn’t live with parents, I’d say no way.

    8. Everyone’s risk tolerance is different. If it were me, I wouldn’t go back yet, because you live with your parents and they’re more vulnerable, so it’s not just about not spreading something (easier) it’s about not bringing something home (harder – masks protect others, not you).

    9. It appears you disapprove of your state reopening and would have a different criteria than they’re using for when they should do it. If that’s the case, you don’t have to participate in the reopening until the criteria you’re watching for is met. You totally get to keep doing what you have been doing.

    10. The CDC was ready to issue guidelines for aquatics facilities before the administration made them take all those things down, which is a real bummer. Generally though, the danger of pools is the locker room space, not the pool itself.

      But yeah, you don’t want to so don’t do it yet.

    11. Thank you everyone. I will put this off for the foreseeable future. I am anxious person and it’s easy to fall in the pattern of questioning (my own) decisions. Normally I can snap out of it but sometimes I need another opinion to help solidify my own. My parents have been great, they are healthy, follow all recommendations, and have been willing to let me be the one to handle all shopping, etc. But it’s stressful being the only child. They are my only immediate family, and sometimes it’s hard to find the line of between taking reasonable precautions and wanting to wrap them in bubble wrap.

  25. I applied for a new job! I wasn’t job searching, but it’s at my old law school (assistant director of a law school program) and I’ve wanted it since I graduated a few years ago, so I jumped on it when it came up. I was right on the edge of meeting the minimum requirements, but apparently HR decided I did and my app was passed along to the hiring manager. Very excited!

  26. How many people here are doing takeout or not? Where do you live — is it a place that’s a hotspot/cluster or a place with relatively low cases? Have you been getting takeout the whole time or are you just starting as things reopen more? I’m getting really tired of my own boring cooking. Yet the whole process seems so overwhelming as people keep telling me they transfer food into their own containers, microwave it, dispose containers immediately. I live in a 1bed apt. — it’s not like I can leave containers in my laundry room or garage and plate the food from there and only bring the plate in etc. Even taking out the trash is something I don’t want to do all the time bc of a common trash chute but then is it fine to let a container sit in my kitchen trash until the next time I’d take it out?

    1. I just order takeout, and then I eat it. I do none of this crazy wiping down quarantining nonsense. I eat hot food hot and dong lick the containers and wash my hands when I’m done.

    2. We’re getting takeout with masks and transferring to a plate before washing our hands, but that’s about it. I think my partner and I are so fatigued by it after 8+ weeks that it’s the best we’re willing to do. Our area is low-infection, not a hotspot.

    3. We’ve been getting takeout this whole time. I believe it’s a very low risk activity, and I hate cooking and can’t imagine going several months with no restaurant food. Of course it’s fine to leave the containers in your kitchen trash. The virus can’t jump from surfaces to the air. Just wash your hands after you handle the containers and reheat the food if you’re really worried about it.

    4. We are in a hotspot and have been doing takeout once or twice a week the whole time. I usually check around to make sure I’m comfortable with the pick up process (like are you bunched up waiting with people etc.) but we have been eating it out of the containers it comes in just fine.

    5. I’ve been doing takeout since the beginning. I usually transfer the food to my own plate or bowl anyway, but I don’t go the extra step of microwaving unless I want it to be a warmer temperature. I dispose of containers in the trash as normal. My Whole Foods accepts #5 plastics for recycling, so I will rinse those and place them in a separate bag to take with me to the store. That’s something I did pre-pandemic.

    6. We do takeout 1x/ week. We pick it up directly (not sure if that’s an option for you). We do nothing to it different than 6 months ago.

    7. Yeah, we’re doing takeout once or twice a week. We use contact-less delivery where the driver just drops the food in our building’s front vestibule, calls or rings the bell, and one of us comes out to get it. I wash my hands between unpacking the food and actually eating it. We use our own plates and utensils.

    8. Bay area, so low case# and very disciplined population, everyone is trying their best with distance and masks. We’ve been doing takeout except for the first 3 weeks. Just like grocery shopping, we minimize trips by getting 2-3 times the normal amount. Pizza reheats extremely well under the broiler or in a frying pan. So we get a large one and eat it over the next 3 days with a salad on the side (well, unless we’re lazy). Or get Thai and eat the Pad Thai right away, but put the curry and rice in the fridge to reheat another day. That’s actually a change for the better: Our favorite takeout place that only took orders on the phone (and often nobody picks up the ringing phone in the loud, busy restaurant) now finally has a website to order.
      For the portion that we eat immediately: bring it home, open the container, either dump it out (pad thai) and then wash hands or first wash hands and then grab the pizza to transfer on a plate.

    9. I live in the Bay Area. We have been doing take out the whole time. But it sounds like my risk tolerance is higher than yours maybe. I don’t really do a different process when I get the food home than I do normally other than obviously wear a mask when I get it, socially distance from the other picker-uppers, wash my hands when I get home etc. I would always eat take out on my own plates even in normal life.

      I also don’t wipe down my groceries, nor have I ever.

    10. Live in Metro Detroit, hotspot. We’ve been doing takeout 1-2 time a week, which is more than we’d eat out in non-quarantine times but I’m nervous for our Detroit restaurants and really want to see them make it. I…don’t do any of that. I’ll throw away the plastic bags instead of reusing them, but I think it’s really fine to throw the container away in your regular trash. Use hand sanitizer after you pick up, and then wash your hands once you get home, but I truly don’t think you need to do much more.

      1. Yes, same. In metro Detroit hotspot area. We transfer to a plate, wash hands, eat with our own utensils, throw away container like normal. I’m gonna assume restaurants are following proper health and safety guidelines (like they should have always been doing pre-pandemic too, but now with masks) and the food is safe. No need to re-heat unless you want it to be warmer.
        Like other commenters have said, the virus can’t jump from the garbage to the air, and the virus dies after a couple days on a surface anyway. So unless you’re sticking your hands in the garbage then touching your face, which I can’t imagine you are, you are fine.

    12. We’re in a hot spot. We’ve been doing takeout since day one. Contactless delivery and/or pick up. I think it’s a relatively low risk activity and we’ve accepted that “low risk” is a trade off we’re willing to make for mental health. We’ve been sticking to restaurants we know and trust pre-COVID – no one we’ve ever had issues with re: cleanliness or food quality.

    13. We’ve also been doing takeout about once a week, usually pick-up, and mostly curbside but one or two places that practice social distancing for customers who come inside. We put the food on our own plates and then wash, but that’s about it.

      I want to support our local restaurants – so we’ve been spreading the purchases around (and avoiding the temptation to get too many meals from the delish Vietnamese place with huge portions) – and I don’t see it as very risky.

      A local pub posted on its FB page an old Dennis the Menace cartoon. The family is sitting at the dinner table, and Dennis says: “Can’t we go to a restaurant? I’m tired of eathing GROCERIES.”

    14. We’ve been getting delivery (Uber eats, caviar, seamless) and requesting no contact delivery, which all the apps offer. They leave the items at your door and text you that they have done so.

      I am usually the one who collects the bags and boxes and plates everything, and then I throw away the packaging and wash my hands thoroughly. We have relaxed our standards a bit on this as we have learned more, but we generally don’t eat out of the containers the food arrived in.

      We don’t do it very often but occasionally one just needs a poke bowl or Vietnamese food!

      1. *forgot to add, I’m in Berkeley, so a lukewarm spot within a hot region, covid-wise

    15. Hotspot (NYC suburbs). Takeout once per week. I put the food onto a clean plate, and then throw out the containers (in my normal trash can, don’t immediately take outside or anything) and wash my hands. I don’t worry about microwaving it. I wipe my counters down nightly with cleaning solution anyways, so I figure it’s fine to do it on my counter.

    16. I’m 7 months pregnant and in a state with a lot of cases, so my husband and I have cooked every meal we’ve consumed since March 12. At this point, even if I were less worried about unnecessary/incidental contact, it just feels like a point of pride to continue. But that’s all coupled with an otherwise very conservative approach due to concerns about infection, especially as we approach my due date. My husband goes grocery shopping once every 3 weeks. I have 2 total prenatal appointments between 26 weeks and delivery because my OB is taking a super conservative approach to exposure. Otherwise, we stay in or around the house or go for walks outdoors with masks.

    17. Yes, we’ve been doing takeout from places where they load it in the trunk of your car. No issues with containers — I think your friends are over-thinking it.

    18. I have been ordering takeout a lot, and have been all along. I am in the Chicago suburbs, I don’t do anything special with the containers.

    19. Not in a hot spot. I have been getting takeout basically since week 2 or 3; usually about once a week and I always leave a $20 tip. I transfer the foods to plates and throw the packaging away, washing my hands 5 or 6 times during the process, basically every time I touch a container. Beyond that I don’t worry too much. However, I am reconsidering whether I will continue as restaurants reopen and their staff are exposed to more people for a longer duration of time. Our state will be doing outdoor patio seating soon. I may stick to takeout from restaurants without that option or I may decide to hold off on takeout for a little while to see how things go.

    20. Hotspot northwest New Jersey (between Essex and Bergen counties) – I’ve cooked all meals from home since March 5. All snacks too. I would LOVE some takeout bbq or a bougie sandwich. We get our produce and meat curbside from a farm further west in NJ where there are fewer cases reported. Husband and I live in a 1 bedroom apartment, so it’s just too much work/stressful to figure out if they’ll deliver to our apartment door (not downstairs at the building’s entry) and wipe everything down, etc.
      I am also starting to get sick of my cooking, but the past two weeks I’ve allocated time collecting some recipes to spice things up and add to my normal meal planning. And our CSA just started up so it’s fun to try to figure out what to make with three onions, a bunch of radishes, and some random green leaves.

    21. I’ve been getting takeout about once a week. I take the bag and open the container (without touching the food), wash my hands, Transfer the food to my plate and throw away the container in my kitchen trash can, wash my hands again, And then eat the food like normal. Is there still some risk? Sure, I’m sure there is. But I’m fine with that

    22. I order and eat takeout once a week. My county has had a few hundred cases in a population of a quarter-million. It is a dining hotspot with a LOT of independent restaurants with talented chefs. If small restaurants go under, it will be a bad thing for the owners and the city.

    23. We’ve been doing takeout/delivery approximately 1x a week since the start. We wash hands after touching the container, wear mask to pick up, but since it’s not food borne I’m not super concerned about transmission in this way as lon gas we can follow the social distancing/etc. recommendations related to getting it.

    24. I’m outside of New Orleans, so a hotspot. We have been doing takeout very rarely, mostly for budget reasons and because cooking has become our form of entertainment. Takeout doesn’t replicate the experience of a restaurant, and the food we cook is usually better. If we don’t feel like cooking, we have leftovers in the refrigerator and freezer and several convenience/prepared foods from grocery stores.

      We have done takeout 3 times–once in March, April and May. We don’t wipe down the packages or microwave the food or transfer to other containers. We also don’t wipe down groceries or mail or packages. It’s just an acceptance of low risk. On the other hand, we’re also accepting medium risks–I’m going to the office in the afternoons and observing social distancing, I’m going to the grocery store with a mask on, etc.

    25. We got takeout exactly once. Getting the food out of the containers safely was so nerve-wracking that we haven’t done it again. It’s just not worth it.

      The takeout also confirmed my suspicion that restaurant food makes me bloat. The next morning, I weighed three points more than I had weighed the previous morning. Even if life goes back to normal someday, I don’t think we will eat out nearly so often as we did before for this reason alone.

      2. Yeah I’ve been baking up a storm and making home homemade ice cream and all that, and not exercising very much or sleeping well, and I’ve somehow managed to lose a few pounds during this whole thing. The only explanation I can think of is that I’m consuming way less restaurant food (I used to eat lunch out every day and dinners out 2-3 times/week) and now we only eat takeout dinner once/week.

    26. we get take out, and nuke it in the microwave for 25-30 s before eating whether in the original container or on a new plate. we have transitioned from deliver via apps to ordering and picking up ourselves (masked) to try to support the businesses more directly. about 1-2x a week depending on laziness.

  27. Give me some confidence ladies — I used to do bankruptcy litigation (in the last recession). As that work dried up I moved onto other things but it’s still my interest. But “how” I want to work has now changed. No longer interested in the biggest biglaw, most prestigious practices that get the big debtor cases. I simply want to be involved even if it is at the regional level. So there are 2 regional firms that I want to reach out to and I keep thinking — nah it’s a recession, they’re not going to hire, they have their own people. And then I think — any guy would have no problem reaching out and saying hey I was doing this work in NYC in 2008, I can help you out. One firm I have no contacts to and the other I have a “minor” contact. This isn’t a be all, end all; I am currently employed, making good money etc., and I can’t actually leave before July-August anyway, as I have some vesting events coming up at my company that wouldn’t be worth skipping out on.

    1. Do it! You have valuable skills, and if these employers need to hire for this work you would bring a lot to the table. If they don’t have a need, they’ll tell you that. What do you have to lose by reaching out?

    2. This is so incredibly individual. My wedding was tiny, on the beach with six people including me, my husband and the officiant. I loved it and would have hated a big wedding. My sister had had 250 people with the dress, six bridesmaids, reception, dancing, cake, and all of the traditional stuff. She had been dreaming of it her whole life, loved every minute, and still says it was the best day of her life except for the birth of her children.

  28. Hello all:

    I hope you can help me with this. I took DH to the ER yesterday because he was screaming about pain and wouldn’t stop throwing up. They diagnosed him with a kidney stone (3.5-4mm-they say he should pass it naturally) and an inguinal hernia. He has never had a stone before, but I know it is not an uncommon condition. That being said, he still appears to be in severe pain (even with percocet) and has been throwing up on and off all day, despite also being on anti-nausea drugs. He can’t seem to keep even water, gingerale, or crackers down. Does anyone have any advice on how to ease discomfort until he passes the stone? TIA

    1. My health insurance offers a 24/7 helpline (staffed by nurses, I believe). Does yours have one? If so, call NOW and ask this question. If they don’t, call his doctor’s office. Asking for personal experience here is fine, but also take full advantage of all the medical care that is available to you.

      1. I have already contacted his doctor, whose office said they will get back to me. That is a good idea to call the number on the back of the BC/BS card. I will do that. He does not have a fever at this point. My understanding is that this is a painful, uncomfortable condition and that throwing up isn’t uncommon, so I’m trying to hydrate him and help him ride it out, but it’s awful seeing him like this.

    2. Yeah, I would definitely call the doctor immediately, and if you can’t get through, take him back to the ER. If he can’t keep anything down, he’s going to get dehydrated.

    3. If possible, try slow walking. The last time I had a stone, there were times when lying down was most comfortable (or rather, least uncomfortable) and times when standing/walking was.

    4. I am assuming you called his PCP. You need to call an Urologist. That is the specialist who takes care of stones. If unable to tolerate fluids, go back to the ED.

  29. I had a zoom meeting with some of my girlfriends recently where we talked about cancelled weddings this summer – and I know we have at least a couple of posters here who are in that boat – and most of my friends now say they regret having their big weddings. Two friends said they were so stressed about keeping everyone happy that they didn’t enjoy their own day. Another friend said that when people talk to her about her wedding, she doesn’t remember them being there. One of the stressed friends said her wedding continued to stress her out after the fact because she kept thinking about how much money it had been (she and her husband paid) and how much further along they would have been in their savings goals if they hadn’t blown so much on the wedding.

    We basically all ended up agreeing that whatever the wedding alternatives for this summer are will probably be improvements over the old system.

    Do any of you feel the same about your wedding now that it’s in hindsight?

    1. I had a small wedding (20 invitees) and still feel that way. Maybe I only felt a fraction of the stress the big wedding brides felt though? I can definitely say without a doubt though that when I think about my wedding, which was 2 years ago, the overall feeling I remember is stress and worry, rather than joy and love. I think I even look tense and worried in the photos. HOWEVER- I planned it super fast (8 weeks!), was making last minute changes until literally the hour of, work was insane and not accommodating at all, and I did not set appropriate boundaries with work because it was a new job. So maybe those things aren’t related to the wedding size. We spent ~$10k and did not stress about money, so at least there is that.

    2. Yeah not here for this. It’s smug married talk. Go away people who think this is better who actually got to have the big weddings they wanted at the time.

      2. This. They are only saying it because they got THEIRS so now of course a big/traditional wedding is NBD and they’d be totally fine with a zoom wedding or a backyard wedding. BS.

        1. I’m OP. That wasn’t the tone at all, at least of the actually zoom conversation. Sorry if it came across that way, and if your wedding is cancelled because of COVID I’m truly sorry for you.

      3. +1 there is a difference between choosing to have a small wedding and being forced to abandon the plans you had initially decided on because of a global pandemic.

      4. +1 I feel like this is similar to the people who say how irresponsible international travel is from an environmental perspective but spend 3 summers backpacking through Europe

        1. +a million; thanks for saying this re: the international travel conversation!

    3. Nope. I didn’t have a giant wedding (90 people), but that remains basically the best weekend of my life. Having everyone I loved in one place was an incredible feeling. We did a Friday night welcome happy hour and a Sunday brunch (both totally and expressly optional, but 80% of our guests flew in to where we live and we felt like we needed to maximize time with them if they were interested; almost everyone came to both). Worth every penny.

    4. I have had three big or biggish weddings! Kind of regret the first two (definitely regret the marriages!), but the last one was amazing and I am happy we did it. Now that everything is shut down I treasure those memories more than ever. That said, I think the reason we had such a great experience is that the only people we had to answer to were each other, and we hired a planner to do the legwork. No parents and not even really any wedding party — we each had one attendant and we provided their clothes and told them when to show up, and that was that. So I basically agree with you that the current Wedding Industrial Complex is kind of dumb and if it goes away that will be a good thing.

    5. My wedding was for my mom and MIL. My marriage is for my husband and I. I don’t mean to sound ungrateful, and it was certainly fun and a nice memory but also so far from anything I actually wanted. I didn’t feel like I had any choice in the matter.

    6. I had a big wedding and loved it. It wasn’t super pricey – stayed on budget, nobody went into debt – but I had the church and the dinner and the band and the caterer and all that. It was a really great day and I still look back on it and remember how nice it was to see so many people that I loved.

      I feel like there’s this thing where we’re all supposed to believe that it’s morally superior in some way to get married in the backyard in a vintage dress and have a potluck. I have been to many weddings like that, and they’re super-fun too, but it wasn’t what I wanted for myself at that time in my life, and I still feel good about that choice. I ended up getting divorced, and I still don’t regret it TBH.

      That said, Round 2 is going to be completely different, because I’m at a different place in my life and want different things.

      1. I love everything you’ve said here. I wonder if some of this regret OP is talking about is because she and her friends are now at a different place in life and wouldn’t make the same choices again were they to get married today. I don’t think it’s helpful to tell a bride right now that it’s okay you’re not getting the wedding you want because 10 years later you’ll feel differently.

      2. Agreed! We had a HUGE wedding because that’s what my in-laws wanted, but I loved it so much. It was definitely one of the best days of my life.

      3. Thanks for posting this. I had a big wedding (200+) and loved it. We didn’t really go much over budget so I don’t really have any regrets there. If anything there are a few things I wish we had done or spent a bit more on because I was overly cheap and we now are comfortable enough that the spending decisions I agonized over seem silly now. Our prioritizes were (1) ending up married at the end of the day, (2) making sure everyone was sufficiently fed and watered (and liquored) and (3) having a good time. We hit all our goals.

        There are some people we don’t see often now that were there and others we didn’t include that I wish we had (we are closer now than at the time) but having a huge number of people that you care about in the same room is really incredible.

        I agree with other posters that I think it’s kinda obnoxious for people to say that they would have done something different in the context of COVID. It’s one thing to chose to have a small wedding, it’s another one to have that forced on you because of this.

        If anyone reading had to cancel or postpone or replan a wedding during this I’m so sorry it totally sucks. And you’re allowed to be mad/upset about it. FWIW I have one friend who will elope instead and plans to throw a fabulous first anniversary party next year. It’s of course not the same but everyone I’ve talked to is very much looking forward to celebrating at the anniversary party with the same enthusiasm (or more because we are all looking forward to celebrating the marriage and the end of this) as a wedding.

    7. I don’t regret having a wedding. Mine was not terribly big (~100 people) and pretty cheap ($10k, excluding the rings and the honeymoon, which was well within our means at the time) and it’s really the only chance you have to get all the people you love in one place at the same time. Close friends might travel for a graduation or baby shower or other major life events, but nothing has the same bring-everyone-you-know-together quality that a wedding does. I am shy and dislike being the center of attention and I was definitely kind of dreading that aspect of the wedding in the days leading up to it, but in the end it was wonderful and I’m so, so glad I did it. I do have a few regrets about my wedding but they are more specific: 1) I should not have had a full wedding party, just my BFF as maid of honor, because the other bridesmaids caused unnecessary drama and 2) I wish I had had a different photographer. We hired someone fairly expensive that we loved, and her engagement photos of us were great, but on the day of our wedding she stayed rooted in one place so we have about 200 photos of the ceremony shot from the same location with only the facial expressions changing – it looks like a flip book. And at the reception she only photographed the dance floor so we have zero photos of the elderly relatives who weren’t dancing (many of whom are no longer with us). I cried – a lot- when we got the photos back.

    8. I got married on the beach with only DH and myself in attendance (hotel staff served as our officiant and witnesses). I absolutely do not regret it one bit. We threw a decent sized party before we left that included our friends and some family. We have a weird family situation (both sides) so I know this is not the norm or everyone’s cup of tea and that’s ok. But I have such fond memories of doing my own wedding makeup, crying during the service, and then afterward total hotel guests coming up and congratulating us and buying us drinks at the bar. It was sweet, intimate, a little kooky and perfect.

    9. No, my wedding was perfect. We did a small destination wedding for 20 immediate family / guests. We planned it based on what we could afford, and my parents graciously decided to step in and pay for it. We ended up spending about $5k out of pocket on upgrades/more robust wedding planning package and then about $10k on the honeymoon. Best decision/wedding ever. I also made my groom be the point person for the wedding, which worked great. I felt like I just had to show up with my dress (of course I was a bit more involved than that).

    10. I eloped and I have literally never once regretted it. Sometimes I go to big weddings and think about whether I wish I had one – the answer is always a resounding “no!” even though I enjoy attending as a guest.

    11. we LOVED our almost 250 person wedding. we definitely had some drama and some stress earlier on in the planning, but on the day itself, it was hands down one of the best, most fun days of my life. there are definitely some people who we invited who i haven’t kept in touch with as much who maybe i now wouldn’t have invited and a few details i would have changed, but i don’t regret having it at all. i will caveat with saying that we were very fortunate to have parents who generously paid for our wedding, though that also meant for more parental opinions (but my mom and i generally have the same taste and DH was as involved as he wanted to be). our wedding was 8 years ago and is occasionally still brought up at random by friends as having been a lot of fun.

    12. I had a tiny wedding with 13 guests, which was lovely. Although I do love big family gatherings where everyone takes a bunch of time to hang out. For myself though, I liked not having a huge crowd on the day where I was taking a such a big personal step.

    13. Your friends are only saying that because they feel bad for this summer/this year’s brides having to cancel. After having their OWN weddings, it’s NBD and they wouldn’t have done it at all. Yeah right. I mean do I think some people would’ve spent less money, realized having that particular beige colored table linen which was special order and cost an extra $1000 or that cake that was an additional $2000 over their second choice wasn’t worth it, sure. But does that mean they would have opted for a court marriage or a zoom wedding or a backyard wedding with 15 family members — no way; don’t believe it for one second.

    14. Yeah, as a bride who has been forced to delay our (relatively big) wedding until October, this is not very helpful and kind of hurtful. If you don’t want a big wedding, don’t have a big wedding. But for those of us who DO want a big wedding, we’re not really going to be able to have it.

    15. My wedding day was one of the happiest days of my life. We had 130 people and I loved, loved the way everything turned out. Do I have regrets? Sure. I should have spent less on the dress and more on the food (plenty, but not as delicious as I wanted it to be), and more time with my parents. But it was the best party of my life, with all my favorite people and I loved every minute of it. Some of those minutes are a bit of a blur (we spent a lot on alcohol!) but many are memories I’ll cherish my whole life.

    16. I just got married last September. We rented a summer camp for the weekend, had 100 guests stay on site all weekend and 200 total for the actual ceremony/reception. We are so grateful we snuck it in before COVID smashed into the 2020 wedding season, and we keep talking about how lucky we were to be able to have that wonderful joyfest of everyone we love in one place. We got some help from parents, paid for about half ourselves, spent almost as much money as we just put down on our downpayment on a house in a HCOL city, and don’t regret it one bit.

      I do think that given the expense and stress of weddings, and the crisis that wedding vendors are going through, we may see a massive cultural shift post-COVID away from big huge expensive weddings. But I’m not wishing I were a part of it.

    17. I’ve been married twice. The first time was ~125 people, big dress, all that. It was what was “expected” and great on paper – Friday night dinner for out of towners who flew in, Saturday lunch and dinner, Sunday brunch – but there were just so many moving parts. The only part I was really excited about was my flowers.

      Second wedding, we just did it in front of immediate family (8 people and a toddler). When the forecast changed from maybe sprinkles to definitely rain, I just texted everybody, including vendors, and told them to meet 2 hours early at the chapel to try to beat the heavy showers. Called the restaurant where we had reserved a private room and told them we’d be early. I had stunning flowers and a dress I LOVED and I remember every minute of it and didn’t have a financial hangover.

      1. Want to add that a lot of my feelings on the weddings reflect my age. Early-mid-20s means you think you need 89 bridesmaids (only one of whom I ever think of anymore; two of whom I haven’t spoken to in maybe 10 years), you think you need whatever the fancy accessory is (at the time, it was a fur stole and vintage brooches as hair pins – borrowed my grandmother’s, check), you think you need the “it” designer gown (Reem Acra look-a-like, check). At 24, I don’t think I could have made different choices – you just don’t know who you really are yet, even if you think you do, and you just do what you’ve seen others do. You just have a different perspective when you get married for a second time at 38.

        1. Yes I think my friends felt pressured to do what their friends did. They were all 25-29 when they got married. Lots of bridesmaids, lots of pre-parties, all that stuff. And lots of $ and lots of invites for the parents’ social group, whether the parents were paying or not.

    18. I loved my wedding. It meant so much to me to have people I cared about from different parts of my life gathered for the first time. I don’t know when I’ve ever felt so supported.

    19. You know what drives me nuts? This false dichotomy between a big, expensive wedding that you go into debt for (or use money that you don’t really have) and a small little backyard Zoom thing with pinwheel sandwiches.

      That’s such nonsense. You can have a great wedding for about $15,000. Mine was about that. Lovely dress from David’s, groom and groomsmen in tuxes, 75 guests, church wedding, brunch at a very well-known historical landmark, mimosas, cocktails, dessert table and cake.

      The problem isn’t the type of wedding. The problem is the pressure. The line that I love, but is really sad, is a man who said something about “Two years later, I’m still paying off the debt from the wedding of my mother-in-law’s dreams.”

      Go and have your big blowout wedding if that’s what you want. Have a classy brunch. Get catered BBQ if that’s your thing. One of my friends served pizza because she loves pizza and she could afford pizza on her new-college-grad salary. Elope. Just do it your way, within something that resembles a budget, and be respectful of your guests.

    20. No, mine was maybe 120 people and it was great. I didn’t feel stressed to entertain everyone because it was a wedding with an open bar, which IMO is pretty darn fun. I wasn’t stressed out and I could afford what I spent. I would be disappointed to miss out.

    21. Honestly, I had a big wedding, and I loved it. My parents paid for it, and there wasn’t much of a budget. We threw a huge, super fun party. It will be the only time in our lives so many of our friends and family are in one place, and I appreciate everyone who traveled for it. The music was awesome, and the food and alcohol were great. The planning process was kinda stressful, but by the time the wedding weekend arrived, I was very calm and happy.

      So, no, I don’t regret it, and I do feel bad for any couple who wanted to have a large gathering and didn’t get to. I’m in my mid-30s and have been to probably 20-30 weddings since graduating from college. They’ve all been different and special (except for one awkward one, but that’s another story).

    22. I had a big wedding (300 guests, multiple nights – can you tell I’m south Asian?) and those experiences don’t track with mine at all. I’m fortunate that my wedding planning and wedding day involved a lot family help in terms of logistics and financial support (of course, our guest list and expenses would have been a lot smaller if I hadn’t let my mom run things), and we had a day of coordinator. On the day of, I didn’t worry about any details – I just let the day happen as it did and focused on myself and my husband and close family/friends. Not to bash small weddings of course! But for me, that just doesn’t track.

    23. We had a smallish wedding (50 guests, no bridesmaids, groomsmen, etc. Just us up there). It was ok, and I appreciate that it is likely the only time in our lives where both our families will ever be in the same room. There was a ton of mingling and people getting along great. No major nonsense. Once things got going, I really enjoyed the day and was very happy, but there were a few moments that still sting for a variety of reasons.
      As much as I did enjoy it, it was still stressful, and I was just remarking to my husband the other day I wish we had eloped on a cliff somewhere and just invited immediate family. It would have hurt people’s feelings, so maybe that isn’t actually a great solution. Weddings, whether we like it or not, are as much about our family and friends as it is the couple getting married. You can scale up or down based on your own preference, but it’s important to the family/friends. You’re still married whether its in front of 300 people or eloping in the woods. Everyone should pick whatever suits them best at that stage in their life.
      I’m sorry to all those with weddings that have been postponed indefinitely due to all this. Even if there’s a lot of debate (both to you internally and externally in society) about what the right wedding is, it is still an important and beautiful day that you should be able to experience how you want.

    24. I loved my tiny wedding. We rented a boat and got married on the water. Changed into more comfortable clothes after the quick ceremony for our 2 hour cruise. We all hung out on the deck of the boat, enjoying each other’s company. Best man actually pulled out a fishing pool. It was completely relaxed with no stress. I wouldn’t change a thing…

      1. What? I love weddings!! And so do a lot of my friends. We regularly joke that we need people to start having vow renewals because most of us are married now and we miss going to weddings

      2. Are you the grump who doesn’t like birthday parties either? I hope you can find some joy in your life soon.

    26. I wanted to elope. We had a nice wedding with 60 guests because my husband wanted a wedding. It was fine, but we made some decisions to save money that I really regret, like getting a lousy photographer and a crummy DJ instead of a band and buying a sample dress that had to be cut down three sizes and never fit right. I liked having our family and friends there, but I still wish I had gotten my romantic elopement or maybe a destination wedding where we had flown in a handful of people. So yes, I regret it. But I would never wish the current situation on any bride. The main reason people regret big weddings is that they feel they had no choice. The pandemic takes away choice too.

  30. My 37 person wedding was perfect. I got to celebrate with the people I love the most exactly how I wanted to.

    1. Get ready for the claws to come out by posters. I’m glad you kept it small – though not nearly as small as you should have. And I really hope that no one got sick or dies from your gathering. Good luck on your marriage.

      4. I think this clearly was a response to the above thread about weddings “in hindsight”

      6. Clearly this was a response to the above question. I am rolling my eyes so hard at you.

      7. Lol. She didn’t even say it was a recent wedding! And yet the Covid police are out in full force today.

  31. Despite being aware that I am not likely to wear office pants until the Tuesday after Never (slight exaggeration), someone linked me to some “catstooth” Betabrand pants. Standard houndstooth from afar, but close up, tiny little cat heads.

    This may be too cutesy or quirky for your office or personal style, but it’ll be fine in mine, and the pants have pockets. If anyone else wants catstooth pants, get thee to Betabrand. There’s a matching blazer too.

    1. They popped up on my Facebook feed! There is no way you could tell they were cats unless you were up very close!

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