Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Trinu Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This great dress from L.K. Bennett comes in red and black, and between the two colors, every size is available — but both are beginning to run low on stock. I like the fitted silhouette and the round neck, and I particularly like the little details on the sleeves — the little bows and slits go so far in making a polished, feminine look. The dress is $425 and available in sizes 0–16. Trinu Black Dress

Here’s a more affordable option and a plus-sized option.

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Comments

  1. Anonymous :

    I am a South Asian woman of color.

    I am intelligent and have an amazing track record in college to prove it. However, now that I am working at one of the Big4 accounting firms, all of my bosses are white males. I am capable of doing much more but leadership seems to give the best opportunities to my coworkers, who look exactly like them but who are not as talented as I am. I don’t blame completely, either. It is human psychology to have a preference for people who are more like you but, I thought having to be twice as good was a thing of the past. In college, race or gender was never a problem in regards to merit-based opportunities.

    In the working world, I have nothing in common with my bosses. I don’t watch football or share a beer with the guys and unfortunately, the opportunities I receive will always be limited because of this.

    Any tips? I can’t be the only one with this issue.

    • Also a South Asian women of color.

      I don’t doubt what you say is true, but your college track record does not necessarily mean much. I was abysmal in college (partying and drinking waaay too much) and have a super successful career.

      Focus on networking and finding common ground. I have 0 interest in football or beer, but if someone has a decent sense of humor, I can usually find a way to forge a relationship. Develop your networks with other women. And internalize feedback. Sometimes, you are getting overlooked because of your gender or skin color. But sometimes, you are overlooked because you weren’t the best candidate or there are areas where you can improve. It’s important to be able to recognize that.

      Hang in there. It is hard.

      • Anonymous :

        +1

        IMO college-smart and work-smart are not the same thing at all.

      • Legally Brunette :

        Also South Asian, and I definitely agree on the point about finding common ground. Also hate to say this, but sometimes you need to deemphasize the fact that you’re different. For example, I was a summer associate at a mid size firm in a smallish city, only one of two people of color in the whole firm. I am vegetarian and people seemed sort of astounded about it. I know, but they really were. So when I went to the crab feast I was the only one not eating crabs. Not that I would hide that fact of course, but if the topic steered to my eating habits in retrospect I should have steered it in another direction.

        Even if you don’t like sports, you can chat about TV shows, the Olympics, current events, etc.

    • Black, MBB, working with a 100% white office and 100% white clients.
      Here is one way among many others that you can improve: crack the clients’ shell and you’d get more opportunities.
      Even when your office is very friendly and equal opportunities etc., you are in the professional services industry so to go up the ranks you need to show that clients adore you (professionally), respect you, want to work with you.
      When clients start sending emails to the partners praising your quality of work then they start staffing you on more prominent accounts.

    • Anonymous :

      It it matters in your line of work to watch football, it’s time to watch football. I like some things about football (the business of it, the scandals of it, implications of the new tax act on playing college coaches at public vs private schools (yes, it is a thing; check it out), state income tax issues for when you play which games where), etc.). I find Jason Gay’s writing in the WSJ very readable.

      Female (obs).
      No brothers.
      D-1 non BCS eligible school for undergrad and grad school.
      Finance (so plenty of bros) with a tax background.

      I like skating and hockey and can talk that up big with one client. Also into baseball. Made my peace with golf.

      Don’t hate the player, hate the game. BUT PLAY THE GAME ANYWAY.

      • Anonymous :

        I have to agree with this to some extent. I am a white female, so I do not face the same challenges you do. Not even a bit. However, in my office, college basketball is King. Specifically, Duke vs. Carolina, and of the three partners I work for, one went to Duke and one went to Carolina. While I went to a school that has a decent D-I college basketball team, they’re not on the same level or in the same conference as Duke and Carolina. But, I keep track of Duke and Carolina anyway. Not only am I able to follow their conversation, but I am also able to speak reasonably intelligently about the games and the sport as a whole (see FBI scandal).
        Bonus, I know when one of them is going to be in a terrible mood after a loss (see, Duke losing to VaTech last night.)

        You don’t need to become as proficient in the sport as an ESPN analyst, but if this is what the conversation in your office centers around, I don’t think it could hurt to learn more about football.

        • The new tax rules may make the Duke person stabby. I mentioned to one alumnus I know and we was all OMG conspiracy by Chapel Hill.

      • I like watching football and baseball, but this is exactly why I am learning how to golf. It’s a slow and sad process, but I’m at the point that I can at least play in a scramble and not be a pathetic joke.

      • This is interesting because I haven’t really needed to get familiar with football or sports or anything that I don’t already like. I have found common ground in television shows, current events, music, local politics (less controversial than national ones), travel, etc. It’s been fine.

        • Housecounsel :

          As I went through a series of interviews for my current job, I sat waiting outside the CEO’s office and picked up a newspaper to flip through. I read an article in the sports section about my alma mater’s basketball team. One of the first questions the CEO asked me was about my alma mater’s basketball team. I don’t think my extremely well-informed answer got me the job, but it didn’t hurt. So yes, I agree, watch football.

          • [deleted by management]

          • Oh this gets through but I’m in moderation.

          • You think women hide behind our vulvas to get ahead like the #MeToo route?

            How about, men have got to stop s3xually harassing/assaulting women at work and beyond?

            I don’t know a single woman, or man for that matter, who would ask for and then use victimization to get ahead. Really not cool.

      • You can’t pay me enough to make me want to support an industry that bribes young black men to injure each other for the amusement of white people. I will find other ways to connect with my colleagues.

    • If you are remotely telegraphing this, you need to stop now:

      but leadership seems to give the best opportunities to my coworkers, who look exactly like them but who are not as talented as I am.

      Even if it is true, it will make you poison to work with.

      • What do you mean poison to work with? Are you saying OP is poison if she understands the reality of the situation, that it is justified not to provide OP with the same opportunities if she’s not perfect peppy pro-bro? That is mean and shortsighted and screams that you’re part of the problem, you’ve obviously never been in a situation similar, you can’t keep on the perfect face everyday.

        • I worked with someone with an impressive academic pedigree (and plenty of state u and night school co-workers). She was so insistent that she was smarter and better (and pounced on any error of her lesser co-workers) she managed to alienate everyone who might have otherwise been in her corner.

          She should have an asset to that group (she was otherwise talented and very bright and also hard working) but it just blew up based on her disdain for everyone else around her.

          TL;DR: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

          Work hard. Work smart. In the long run, you will do fine.

          • Well that’s different, she was a jerk. Going to assume OP is otherwise personable.

          • But I don’t care how “talented” someone is. I care that they are hard workers, individually motivated and driven to do a good job, good team players, willing to help out and pitch in, even if the work seems beneath them, if that is what is good for the team. And so if you are walking around thinking you are better and smarter than everyone around you, then I totally agree that might be rubbing people the wrong way.

            I am in Big4 also but on the consulting side. I’ve thought a lot recently about discrimination here because I think in general when you are in client service, people tend to only hire people that act like them. It’s easy then to blame “client presence” and “airport test” as a reason why you wouldn’t hire someone (e.g., someone with an accent or different social cultural background that you “might not want to put in front of a client”). I think if you have made it past the interview side and gotten hired, then you have already passed that hurdle. I see much less discrimination once you are in.

          • I think this is a fair point and at least one for OP to consider. Focusing on one’s education and pedigree alone, without regard for their “fit” in the workplace is not the best way to get ahead usually. I am not saying she needs to love football. And maybe there is more of an undercurrent here of discrimination than we know. But just reading the OP’s post rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t give a flip about football. But I don’t want to work with someone who holds up their report card from 5 years ago all the time and says “look, all A’s”!

        • I work with someone from Harvard (man). Who never shuts up about it. Like he should get XYZ b/c he went to Harvard. Or not have to do ABC b/c he went to Harvard. Dude needs to leave already b/c we were all hired for the same d*mn job. He seemed to sign up for the idea that he is destined to change the world and not do grunt work.

        • But I don’t care how “talented” someone is. I care that they are hard workers, individually motivated and driven to do a good job, good team players, willing to help out and pitch in, even if the work seems beneath them, if that is what is good for the team. And so if you are walking around thinking you are better and smarter than everyone around you, then I totally agree that might be rubbing people the wrong way.

          I am in Big4 also but on the consulting side. I’ve thought a lot recently about discrimination here because I think in general when you are in client service, people tend to only hire people that act like them. It’s easy then to blame “client presence” and “airport test” as a reason why you wouldn’t hire someone (e.g., someone with an accent or different social cultural background that you “might not want to put in front of a client”). I think if you have made it past the interview side and gotten hired, then you have already passed that hurdle. I see much less discrimination once you are in.

    • Also, some of this may just be the nature of the Big4. I found the work assigned to me as a first and second year to be insultingly, mind-numbingly basic. There were very few “good,” interesting projects to go around, so whether you got one really just depended on whether you had availability at that moment. My teammates often got good projects while I was stuck on some tedious, long-term project…but over time, it evened out where they’d get the tedious project and I’d get a fun one. So this may not be personal, just luck of the draw.

      • +1 Also South Asian. First year and a half was such a steep learning curve for me that I didn’t get more responsibility til I showed I could handle the basic stuff. Keep it up, hang in there, try not to see yourself as more qualified than someone else. You all ended up in the same place. Where you go from here depends on your attitude (not saying it’s bad, just sharing my experience) and your aptitude for the work. Go get ’em!

    • You aren’t, and honestly, the best advice, as simple as it is, offered here is the “Don’t hate the player, hate the game. BUT PLAY THE GAME ANYWAY.” refrain. I am also a WOC in a corporate environment with little to no interest in stereotypical “bro” or male activities, but you have to learn them anyway, talk the talk, carry yourself with confidence (even feigned confidence) and push through without internalizing the negativity because they people who won’t give you proper work because of your gender and ethnicity probably can’t be changed, your goal is to move forward despite them, and the best way to do that is to play the game because your actions are the only thing you can control.

      Ignore the woman calling you poison, that screams “troll” or a pretty blonde girl that hasn’t had this issue, you are not and never will be poison because of how you were born or because you lack self confidence or have self awareness of this issue.

      • To be fair, I don’t think she was saying it’s poison to think that people are discriminating, obviously sometimes it’s true, but that saying it or otherwise indicating that you think that will poison her chances to get around it. Assuming her goal is to get ahead in her job.

    • Alanna of Trebond :

      Also a South Asian woman (also, aren’t all South Asians women of color?).

      Are you sure that your experiences are due to discrimination and not to some other factor? I would be careful of having a view that discrimination is the reason, because it tends to be self-affirming.

      We definitely have people here interested in football and basketball here and a partner even has an event where associates are invited to select teams for March Madness. The first time I went I told everyone that sports are stupid and I shared a comic about “sportsing” (link in response). But I am always excited to attend because I like hanging out with the others and don’t mind losing terribly. The people you work with are at Big 4 accounting firms just like you — you must have things in common with them aside from the sports.

      I was recommended this book called the “Authenticity Principle” by our head of diversity which maybe has some ideas to address this problem. I personally did not find it useful, but I don’t believe that I have ever faced an environment that is discriminatory. (link also in response).

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Counterpoint from my biglaw experience: if you don’t want to do this stuff (like football, I guess), you may very well be able to find a workplace, in a few years, where it matters less. My impression is that the Big4 scene is kind of like big law, and for lots of people it’s a first step, but not where you intend to be forever.

      To my mind, sports are ok… watching sports live is super fun, and I’ve been watching hockey my whole life, but I just can’t cede the brain space to do that trivia retention that seems crucial to most people’s definition of fandom. So I work somewhere that values my work, instead! People here definitely broTF out over football, and I don’t have anything to say. That’s ok, because I can broTF out over craft beer with my boss, and gush over babies with the other high ranking person I work with regularly, and talk to the CEO about his dog.

      And most importantly, they give me good work because they know I do good work, and then they can talk to someone else about football. (I know from experience that this is not the case everywhere — ask me about the former coworker we called Baseball because he was objectively unqualified but got the job because… — but if that’s important to you, in a workplace, you’ll be able to find it!)

    • Also a South Asian WOC. Are you sure this is happening to you, or that it’s the only explanation for what you’re observing? For example, I’ve seen it happen in so many different environments where someone feels like they’ve been passed over unfairly “in favor of someone else when I’m distinctive in [xyz] areas” People focus on the strong points of their own record which don’t necessarily align with the strengths that are needed for a given role. Or it could be kind of random at this point, or you may not be as good as you perceive yourself to be. I know this kind of thing happens a lot, but it’s also a convenient way to explain why we aren’t getting what we feel we deserve, and I think that assumption is worth unpacking a bit.

      Build relationships with people, make connections. I don’t think you need to be interested in the same things, but show a genuine interest. People like talking about themselves, so just be interested and give them space to talk.

      • Anonymous :

        This. I am also a WOC and this has been my personal experience. When I was younger, I thought I was talented and being overlooked due to gender and ethnicity. I look back now and realize, it was actually due to my belief that raw talent matters more than relationships. There’s no such thing as being talented in a vaccuum. Talent only shines if you get opportunities. You get the best opportunities through relationships.

    • How long have you been out of school? If you’re only talking college, it can’t have been that long, right? Are you comparing yourself to your classmates or are you comparing yourself to your seniors?

      I’m not going to tell you it’s not discrimination. I don’t work there, I can’t tell for myself. But I do have experience with juniors who think they’re entitled to interesting work before they’ve proven themselves capable. The world of academia is very different from the corporate world.

      Find something in common with your coworkers and your bosses. Don’t believe what they tell you – that you’re too different, that you can’t fit in.

      • This. Do you have specific examples of being passed over and how do you know your coworkers aren’t as “talented” as you are? Talented seems like a weird word anyway – I don’t care how talented someone is. I care that they are hard workers, individually motivated and driven to do a good job, good team players, willing to help out and pitch in, even if the work seems beneath them, if that is what is good for the team.

        I am in Big4 also but on the consulting side. I’ve thought a lot recently about discrimination here because I think in general when you are in client service, people tend to only hire people that act like them. It’s easy then to blame “client presence” and “airport test” as a reason why you wouldn’t hire someone (e.g., someone with an accent or different social cultural background that you “might not want to put in front of a client”). I think if you have made it past the interview side and gotten hired, then you have already passed that hurdle. I see much less discrimination once you are in.

  2. Anonymous :

    I think that the high waist placement of this dress might give my non-flat the Boden effect (i.e., making you look pregnant).

    • Housecounsel :

      That is a Boden effect? I have been contemplating ordering some Boden dresses but have hesitated because returning would be a hassle – and now you say this? Really? This is a thing? Does height matter? Do they hit you at a weird spot?

      • It is for some people. Boden is often high-waisted. It works great for me because I’m short and petite with a very short torso, but some posters seem to find that the waistline and/or the way the fabric lays accentuates the lower belly in a way that is not flattering.

        I think this dress is so gorgeous, but I’m trying not to buy things I have to accessorize with golden handcuffs, alas.

      • It's Fine :

        Boden seems to place waist seems a bit higher than other brands. It works well for those of us who are short waisted. The tall sizes may lengthen the torso a bit.

        Boden dresses on the whole will not make you look pregnant. Dresses with higher waistbands/seams AND some fullness/ruching/pleating at the waist can add fullness there that SOME people thing accentuates the abdomen to a horrifying degree. The higher waist, if it doesn’t suit your body type, probably doesn’t help. But on the whole, it’s not any better or worse than other brands with the same style dresses.

      • Legally Brunette :

        Just discovered that Boden is now being sold at Nordstrom! Who knew.

        • Sloan Sabbith :

          This is great. Means I can actually go try stuff on and decide if it works before ordering a bunch of stuff online. Thanks for the tip!

        • Housecounsel :

          I have seen the kid stuff there but not women’s. Gonna go look ASAP!

      • Boden dresses look amazing on me. Like literally everything else when it comes to clothing and fit, it depends on your body.

    • It's Fine :

      omfg. No it won’t. Can we stop with this complaint? And the idea that anything less than a perfectly flat abdomen is a signal of pregnancy and should therefore be avoided/is a fashion faux pas. Because normalizing the fact that non-pregnant women can have that roundness is to everyone’s benefit.

      There is no pleating or fullness or ruching in the skirt at the waistline. If you happen to be a person that has some roundness to their lower abdomen, then it will be evident, but it won’t be the dress’ fault.

      And honestly, the waist isn’t that high – a lot of us have a natural waist that actual is that high. And putting the waistband there highlights the smallest part of our body. We’ve just gotten really used to the waistband of pants being much lower (at the hips) than the natural waist.

      • People are using the term “look pregnant” to describe the specific appearance in a way that is familiar to all of us. It’s not to denigrate the state of pregnancy or to try to avoid accidentally “signaling” that they’re pregnant. And yes, high-waisted dresses with rouching/seams at the waist can make people with flat abdomens look bloated/round/pregnant or whatever term you want to use. Case study: me. I don’t like it. I’m authorized not to like it and to want to avoid that and it’s not a knock on the state of pregnancy. If you’re already bloated/round, it can make it more extreme. To be clear, I like Boden because I’m short-waisted.

      • Anonymous :

        Seriously. God forbid our friends and co-workers find out that we don’t have washboard abs. I have started wearing whatever style I like that look good on me and try my very hardest not to equate “look good” with “look my smallest.”

        • The problem with Boden is that it doesn’t look good on those of us who do happen to be tall, long-waisted, flat-stomached, or some combination of those. What is wrong with pointing out that it doesn’t flatter some people? If you are short-waisted and love Boden, then by all means wear it and look great. But on me it absolutely does look like I’m trying to hide a pregnancy, and there’s nothing wrong with not wanting to look that way.

          • I mean, I’m tall and on the thinner side, but I don’t really think that has much to do with it. I think we need to consciously work to reframe what we think of as “flattering” and stop equating thinner-looking with better-looking. I will keep pushing back on this every time I see it posted here, because I think it’s important. Of course you don’t have to wear anything you don’t feel comfortable in– you do you.

          • That’s not a Boden “problem”. It’s a feature (for some of us). If it doesn’t work for you, fine! But don’t imply that there’s something wrong with brand just because it’s doesn’t work for YOU. There are lots of brands that don’t work for me, and that’s fine – there are other body types out there.

            And the original comment did not point out that it doesn’t flatter some people – it basically said “Boden dresses make you look pregnant when you aren’t” with no qualifications about fit/body type.

          • “I think we need to consciously work to reframe what we think of as “flattering” and stop equating thinner-looking with better-looking.”

            I certainly don’t disagree with this principle, but sometimes people consider clothes that make them look thinner or that are tailored to their body shape as more flattering and they should be permitted to say so without having to put an asterisk next to it every single time.

          • + 1 Exactly. Boden does not flatter a significant segment of us. No harm in pointing that out in case the OP has a similar body type for which their dresses don’t work. Saves a lot of hassle in shipping and returns too.

          • I am so sick of the sensitivity police. Even if we stop equating thinner-looking with better-looking, we shouldn’t be expected to accept or actively seek out clothes that make us look thicker for the sake of “body positivity.” That’s actually the opposite of body positivity. Body positivity is being comfortable with your natural shape, not trying to cover it up so other people will feel better about their bodies.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          Clap clap clap! I’m working on this too, every day, reminding myself that “looks good” does not equal “looks small.”

      • Anonymous :

        I am convinced that Jennifer Aniston was wearing Boden each time she was on a tabloid cover as pregnant with twins.

        I really like Boden. I order a lot and return a bit (high-waisted pear, so many items are too snug below the waist). I have a lovely shift dress from them and many blouses / sweaters. I am optimistic about the shoes. Returning (from the US) has never been a problem.

      • Yes. This. Sick of it.

        • Linda from HR :

          I’m sick of it too, but I also can’t blame individual women for feeling that way and not magically rising above common body image concerns. We’re all human here; we’re all bombarded with pretty much the same crappy messages about what looks good. Body acceptance is a great thing to spread, but getting all irritated and incredulous with every woman who doesn’t feel like a fierce goddess all the time isn’t really going to do much good.

          All we can do is assure people that a tummy bump is normal, pregnant or not, and that looking good in a dress doesn’t necessarily have to mean looking thin.

          • Rainbow Hair :

            I’d argue, though, that we can stop being part of the bombardment, and can encourage other women to do the same.

            On the rare occasions the pick of the day features a woman who looks like me, and then the comments are about how it’s not ‘flattering’ because ‘ew she looks pregnant’ … we’re playing right into the problem. When every time a particular brand is mentioned here, I grit my teeth a little because I know what is coming next (“it makes my body look like [RH’s body], eeeew!”*), we’re perpetuating the thing we ought to be fighting. And talking back to that nonsense – in our own heads, in the great big world, and among friends (like on here?) – is how we change the way we think, and I don’t think it’s totally out of line if sometimes that talking back includes “omfg can we stop with this complaint?”

            *of course I know it’s not about me, and TBH I’m in a surprisingly good place where this ish rolls off me pretty easily, but I know that I’m not the only one who feels that way when reading those comments.

          • RH, I love your comments and wish I could be your friend in real life. I would like to have a friendly conversation about the definition of “flattering.” I believe that “flattering” means “makes the wearer feel good.” This usually equates to “highlights features of which the wearer is proud” and “does not create the appearance of features the wearer does not have.” So what is flattering to one person may not be flattering to another. For instance, I find armholes that are cut higher flattering and many cap sleeves unflattering, because of the way my arm muscles (for which I’ve worked hard) are shaped. Other people like cap sleeves and don’t like high-cut sleeveless styles. I am also tall and have a straight figure, so on me Boden tends to be unflattering because the waist of the dress hits at my ribcage and the hips of the dress hit at my waist instead of where they are supposed to hit. That does have the effect of making me look pregnant when I am not. I don’t think it’s vain or body-shaming anyone else to want to look like *me.*

            When people criticize the plus-sized selections, I think the issue most people are trying to point out is that many of these dresses are poorly tailored and have poofy fabric, weird lengths, odd necklines, etc. that look bad on almost everyone. That is an issue with clothing manufacturers, not with plus-sized people. There is a difference between trying to look smaller, which no one should feel she has to do, and wanting well-tailored clothes that actually fit your individual body. I don’t think saying a dress is poofy on me is the same as saying “It makes my body look like a plus-sized body, eew!” I think it’s saying “It makes my body not look like my body.” I also think that pointing out unflattering poofiness in a plus-sized style is saying “It makes the model not look like herself.” Shouldn’t we all get to look like ourselves?

          • There is a difference between “tummy bump is normal” and “dress creates tummy bump that isn’t there.”

          • I 100% agree with RH here. I am also plus sized and the ewwww comments the plus size picks get are really disheartening.

          • Rainbow Hair :

            I think I agree with you, 12:31, mostly.

            I think, though, that “flattering” is not as straightforward as you’re saying it is. I wish I could believe you that when people say, “ew, that makes my body look like X” all they meant was “ew, that makes my body look like not-my-body” but I think that very frequently it also means “X is a less good way to look.”

            I’ve never heard anyone on here say, “ew, this dress is so unflattering, it makes my waist look tiny, and I know my waist isn’t actually tiny!” y’know?

      • You guys, the sensitivity police is out today. We get it all bodies are good bodies, and women also have a choice of if they don’t want their clothes to highlight a part that they don’t want highlighted, or create a silhouette that they don’t have (ie bloated tummy). Either is ok, you can stop now. You post this every time Boden is mentioned. We get it.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          “Sensitivity police” — because is there anything worse than trying to think about other people’s feelings?!

        • Then stop saying (repeatedly) how “I don’t buy Boden because it makes me look pregnant” and I’ll stop countering why the brand works for me. “Boden doesn’t work for me because I’m long-waisted” works just as well (and is arguably a more useful data point) to explain why it doesn’t work.

          People should have all the information, right?

          • Right, and using the phrase “it makes me look pregnant” is used to describe why it doesn’t work.

            “Boden doesn’t work for be because I’m long-waisted” does not explain what the visual impact is as effectively. It does not work just as well. I said it upthread- the phrase “it makes me look pregnant” is not intended to be a dig at people who are pregnant. It is intended to conjure up an image that all of us will immediately understand.

      • Women can enjoy wearing clothes that flatter a certain feature without thinking a single negative thought towards other women who don’t have that feature.

        I have a mostly flat stomach and a small waist compared to my hips and chest. This may very well change if/when I get pregnant, postpartum, with age, etc. (In my mid thirties right now.) But for now, I enjoy wearing clothes that highlight my hourglass. If age turns me into an apple, I’m going to dress to flatter the apple.

        • Sloan Sabbith :

          Yup. Not liking something about myself doesn’t mean I have a single bad thought about someone else with the same thing. There’s lots that goes into why people like and dislike certain things about themselves.

          This whole thread is so frustrating. I don’t like what I don’t like about myself, and I like when people who similarly do not like that part of themselves let others know.

      • THANK YOU.

      • You’re not the boss of me, OMFG. I am allowed to not like a dress because I think it makes me look pregnant when I am not, or because I believe it accentuates my stomach and I don’t like that. I think my body is just fine and I love being strong and muscular, but I don’t need clothing that clings too much to my stomach. If you are hurt by that … well, I’m not sure what to say, because it’s my body and my clothing tastes and is no reflection on you whatsoever.

        It feels like the escapees from GOMI and Reddit congregate on this board every now and then to compete in the Woke Olympics.

    • Yes, Boden dresses tend to be for a body shape that must be more common in the UK. Slightly longer torso with a higher waist. They are perfect for me, but mayb not everyone.

      There are many body shapes. Most of us don’t fit most items of clothes perfectly off the rack. We get used to malfitting items or have them altered.

      Try not to make us feel too much like freaks for having higher waists than you?

      • I’ve definitely wondered if the extreme WASPiness of my background is why I often have better luck with British brands.

        Anyone else rocking that English rose undertone and desperately hoping the dusty pink everything trend will die soon because that shade makes you look [email protected]?

        • YES, me. Washes me right out. Fair-skinned, green eyes, and brown hair with red undertones.

          Side note – y’all can hate all you want on Boden bc it just means more for me. I am a short-waisted tall, and more than 3/4 of my work wardrobe is from there. I love Boden. It looks great on me!

    • I own this dress. It’s gorgeous and, FWIW, does not cause a “full” look in the midsection. I’m middle aged and don’t have a flat midsection. It’s figure flattering and my BF loved it.

      • In my experience LK Bennett tends to run quite short-waisted and curvy, but many of the styles are alterable.

  3. Uterine ablation :

    Has any one had a uterine ablation?

    I had a polyp and got it removed, but still having irregular bleeding issues. I am in my 40s, so no worries about the ablation leaving me unable to have children. [This is sort of a thing in my family — the older generation went straight to hysterectomies in their early 50s, the next generation went the ablation route (which seems to be much better). No woman I am kin to ever went through regular menopause due to lady-part problems impacting QOL b/c of persistent and eventually severe bleeding (which I am not having, but feel it is a matter of time at this point).]

    [Also, I love that this site has shared lots of TCOYF and similar books. Is there anything like that for “the care and maintenance of lady parts once you are older”? There are lots of menopause (and perimenopause) books but they seem to be either “learn to love herbal teas and go to a yoga retreat where you beat on a drum in Sedona” or for people in their 60s (so no osteoporosis worries (yet). Anything good for my specific subgenre? Or even a blog or app?]

    • Housecounsel :

      A friend (48) had this done. It was easy and she has no regrets. I don’t have a book rec – although TCOYF gets a lot of credit for 2 of my 3 children. I am just waiting for hot flashes to start and to stop buying products.

    • I think you are jumping the gun a bit. Didn’t this just happen a couple weeks ago? And you are just having irregular bleeding, possibly a bit worse because of the polyp removal?

      I am in my late 40’s and have had irregular bleeding/periods for years. A slow peri-menopause. The menstrual cup and pads are my friends. My mother and aunt both had hysterectomies because medicine was less advanced then, most GYNs were male (and covering their A$$es and probably….$$$). In retrospect, they should not have had them, and they had multiple medical complications from having them.

      This is likely not a “genetic” issue for you…. Right? Did your doctor diagnose you with something inherited? Yes, hysterectomies tend to run in families, but most often not for good reasons

      What does your doctor advise? When is your next appointment? Do you need a second opinion?

      • Uterine ablation :

        No the back story is that I spent the last half of 2017 dealing with this and the polyps just keep coming back. It’s like whack-a-mole. And my sibling went down this road before me (but let herself be anemic for years b/c of the bleeding; she is finally feeling better). Some women are told it’s their lot in life to suffer with lady problems. I don’t want to deal with pads 30 days out of the month. I am trying to be more active and the perma-drip is just nasty and gross. And I don’t want to put myself into toxic shock risk by using tampons when I am not bleeding that heavily all the time. I just want it to stop. It seems like the ablation should make it stop.

        • Is ablation what the doctor advised?

          You are still way jumping the gun. I wear a menstrual cup every day and it is easy and safe to keep hygienic. You are not going to get toxic shock.

          Sure , have the procedure if you want and it is what your doctor advises.

    • My sister did. No more periods! She loves it. She had it done after giving birth to her last child. She also had issues with polyps so it was a great solution for her.

    • My mom had it done multiple time before having a hysterectomy around age 50. She was bleeding constantly. They didn’t really work for her, which is why she ended up with the hysterectomy. Granted this was 20 years ago and I’m sure the technology has greatly improved.

      • I think my mom had several rounds of D&Cs for fibroids. Then hysterectomy (but also decades ago).

        Are there no books re when good ladyparts go bad???

        Or is it just the go to the yoga retreat in sedona and embrace your inner goddess (and don’t forget to pack your cup and pads)?

    • I had a uterine ablation (balloon) in July 2012 at age 51. Life.changing. I had had heavy bleeding for years and was on iron pills to deal with anemia. When it got to the point of me missing meetings/events due to heavy bleeding, I had to do something. The procedure was short and I was out (general anesthesia). I did have extreme pain after due to a delay in getting pain medication going home. I took the next day off just in case but I could have been back at work. The only downside is that I wasn’t through menopause so that marker (last period more than a year ago) was no longer useful. So birth control was still needed (condoms). We are past that era now. All in all, I would do it again as the recovery was nearly effortless. Good luck!

    • KS IT Chick :

      I did NovaSure back in 2006. I spent most of my life with heavy periods & horrific cramps. Unmedicated, I would spend 3 days in bed every month. I was taking liquid pediatric iron supplements to stave off chronic anemia.

      It took 2 tries. NovaSure uses electricity to burn/scar the lining of the uterus. The first time, the wand that they stick up inside to do the electrical jolts to create the burns went straight through the top of the uterus and poked a hole. I was already under general anesthesia by that point, but they had to stop the surgery because they couldn’t get the seal necessary to make the machine trigger. I had minor abdominal infection by 3 days later (broad spectrum antibiotics for the win) and spent an anxious 6 weeks waiting to find out if the hole healed open or shut. Open would have meant I needed a hysterectomy ASAP, because of the likelihood of surgically-induced endometriosis. I was fortunate that the hole healed closed, instead.

      On the second attempt, the GYN useed a different set of implements to thread the instrument in. Instead of the standard, she used the implements normally used for eye surgeries, so that she had much tighter control. I was under for a total of 22 minutes, actually less than for the failed procedure. Not much pain that time, especially compared to the pain of the infection.

      I’m 45, about to be 46. I still use hormonal birth control (NuvaRing) to help with cycle-induced migraines and mental health issues. When that that will change is a point of discussion every year at my annual physical when I see the internist.

    • Mineallmine :

      I know I’m late to this thread, but I an ablation done with radio frequency, and it was awesome. No pain afterwards, minimal discharge and my periods are mostly gone. Honestly, if you’re not going to have kids, it’s a low side effects way to manage bleeding, much better than hormones or just suffering through the bleeding.

  4. style help? :

    My personal style is somewhere around understated elegance with a little edge, but lately I’ve been swallowed up in the former (for example I wear a lot of MM to work) without much of the latter. Occasionally I throw on my leather jacket, but besides that, how do I introduce an appropriate amount of “edge” in my work wardrobe? I’m an MBB consultant, so my work wardrobe needs are on the bland side of business casual. Plus I’m not personally into anything too showy,

    • Anonymous :

      Channel your inner Tilda Swinton? She is elegant but very edgy (and yet in a work-appropriate manner).

      I think that the Rockstud look is so knocked-off as to be over and not edgy. But the brand All Saints comes to mind.

      You can find stud earrings on etsy that are like what cufflinks are to men. I have a set of hammers for when I need to Get Things Done.

      When all else fails — red or leopard shoes.

      • Baconpancakes :

        I have snake vertebrae earrings. No one can tell what they are unless I tell them/they are into bones and weird stuff like I am.

        https://snashjewelry.com/collections/stud-earrings/products/copy-of-dino-flats-stud-earrngs

      • +1 to edgy jewelry. I have a fairly conservative style but for some reason love jewelry with snakes and skulls. I really, really love the tone of confusion when I wear a super boring corporate outfit with interesting jewelry and someone notices and is like, “Is your necklace… a SKULL??” Yes. Yes it is.

    • Anonymous :

      I am a MM devotee who also likes a subtle edge. I add edge to my sheath dresses with interesting glasses, a pixie haircut, moto jackets, and booties.

    • If you get an edgy haircut, suddenly any outfit includes edge! This is my status on lazy days and I like it. (I also have tattoos that I can make visible outside of work.)

      For removable edge, I also recommend jewelry: a tough-looking cuff bracelet, earrings that look industrial with small hanging chains or studs that look like a line of metal across the ear. There’s also the option of bolder eyeliner or lipstick, though I wouldn’t do both.

      • pugsnbourbon :

        Same! Monday I think we might look a little bit alike :)

      • I so agree on the hair. My asymmetric pixie makes the most prim outfit more interesting.

        I also suggest finding a couple of statement pieces you can throw on with your more conservative clothes. I have some lovely burgundy booties with metal studs in a strap around the ankle that make black dress and tights edgy yet work appropriate and can also turn teans and a gray tshirt into a real outfit.

    • I think you should ask yourself if edge is still part of your style descriptor. Angie over at you look fab talks about the evolution of personal style. For instance, she has moved away from tomboyish more into feminine styles recently.

      Maybe you’re gravitating away from edgy pieces because you’re no longer comfortable with them –
      Not in the sense that you can’t pull it off but more in the sense that it’s just not who you are right now.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Some things I do:
      booties
      a slightly too-dark or too-loud lipstick
      jewelry that my punk friends would covet
      black on black patterned tights

  5. In two weeks I am having fibroid removal surgery (a laproscopic myomectomy) – any recovery tips or advice from those who have been through this? Totally nervous since I have never had any major medical procedures before. And I am really hoping that once they are removed, I am finally able to get pregnant (after the 4-6 month recovery period that is).

    • Anonforthis :

      Had this done about a decade ago. YMMV, but I found it easy-peasy; up and walking in the hospital the next morning, and did a 5K (walked/ran) in 10 days. No discomfort in the lady-parts area. Laproscopic technology is terrific. Use Mederma or similar on your little scars.

    • I will chime in with my own experience of laparoscopic surgery on my lady parts (in my case a tubal ligation, but same instruments for the laproscopy)

      I was surprised at how sore the incisions were. It turned out I was over-treating the incision in my navel and it was never drying up. I went back to my OB and she said to run a blow dryer on it and to stop using the ointment, and that worked within a couple of days.

      The gas they fill you up with to inflate the area that they’re working on goes all over your body to dissipate. If you’re upright a lot, it will come up to your shoulders. I felt like I had a pulled neck muscle for at least a couple of days and it was really, really hard to do anything like carry my infant.

      Overall, still worth it, but I was only prepared to feel bad for a day and I actually felt bad for about 5.

    • In m0d please check back *sigh*

    • Recovery from my laparoscopic fibroid removal was really easy on me physically, but anesthesia does weird things to me so I felt terrible from that for a few days. Everyone is different on that front. Having fibroids removed was not strictly necessary for me, but my doc recommended it to help with what I felt was excessive bleeding and I am so glad I went through with it.

    • I had a hysteroscopic myomectomy. In my case, the worst thing about the recovery was the terrible constipation (anesthetic induced). I strongly recommend taking stool softener as soon as possible. In my case, I started taking it when I realized I needed it and still had to suffer until it kicked in (something like 3 days later). FWIW, I had it for fertility reasons too and am expecting a son this summer!

  6. Anonymous :

    I’m hoping to make a job switch very soon and am hoping for guidance in how to navigate the path that I’m on right now. (Don’t want to discuss with anyone IRL quite yet.)

    I enjoy many aspects of my job, but it’s a ‘you’re always available, if I send an email at 2AM I should have a response by 6′ environment. It’s just… not what I want for my life anymore. I’ve been here for a good length of time and have an excellent reputation. One of my regular contacts has offered me a job which seems to fit all the right bases, but I think I’m freaking out because it’s been made so easy so far.

    We’re working on a long term project with current job and new boss and a big goal is for none of us to burn bridges. I bring specialized knowledge to the table and basically save new job about 2 years’ worth of training.
    We’ve been talking conceptually for about 8 months. With that in mind, I got a text last week that literally said, ‘What is your start date?’

    I haven’t sent in a resume. I haven’t interviewed. I do know what the job description is and have negotiated certain aspects already. Is it possible that they’ve literally just decided to give me this job and I don’t have to put myself through the torture of trying to keep a search under wraps?

    • First off – because I know this is frustrating, you were probably caught in the ether because you said “exc 3ll #nt” which has a certain lady’s name in it. So frustrating, but I thought I’d give you a tip!

      Second – are you interested in the job? If so, awesome! I would follow up with a “if we are talking seriously, I’m looking to start Date X. Do you have an offer letter and some job details I can review too?”

      • THANK YOU. I’ll bet you’re right.

        Yes, extremely interested. This will basically let me keep doing interesting work but in an environment where it’s okay to say, ‘I’ll finish this up tomorrow,’ rather than sticking around the office long into the evening.

        I responded with a date with the caveat that if Big Project is delayed (would impact both of us), we would need to revisit.

  7. Pregnant and need to find a doctor ASAP, so am trying to figure out where I want to deliver (NYC).

    There is a hospital three blocks from my house (Woodhull in Brooklyn) that has a terrible reputation. It’s nick-named “Woodkill” and I wouldn’t go there to get stitches. I joked to my husband I could deliver there and we ended up googling them.

    Based on what we’ve read, they have a brand new maternity ward that is far superior to the rest of the hospital. It’s run by midwives (with OBs), has all private rooms, and recently got a certification from the WHO for being “baby friendly.” It is also a 5 minute walk from my house, as opposed to a minimum 20 minute taxi ride to any other hospital.

    Do any of you have experience with similar hospitals – ones w terrible ERs and general care, but great in certain departments? Our plan is to take a tour of it and meet w a doctor/midwife to get a sense – will we be able to tell if this is a safe place?

    • downside risk :

      This is a tough decision and sounds like the maternity ward may be great. Personally, I probably would not be comfortable delivering in a hospital where I did not trust the ED, ICU etc, no matter how much I liked the maternity ward. It’s scary and very rare, but it does happen that otherwise normal pregnancies and deliveries become incredibly complex very suddenly during labor. (I’m in a medical-adjacent field, so I know what I see is over-indexed to the worst cases, but I still can’t get past it).

    • I would avoid a “baby-friendly” hospital unless you are on board with that philosophy (rooming in, no alternatives to EBF, etc.). I delivered at a hospital that strongly encouraged rooming in, pushed EBFing, and woke moms up every 3 hours to BF, and I went home absolutely exhausted and in no condition to care for a new baby by myself.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Congratulations!

      Just in case you are unaware of the subtext, the “baby friendly” designation means that they are single-mindedly pro-brstfeeding and will not provide formula if you choose that route. If you are even considering not brstfeeding, I would urge you to go somewhere else. Women have been treated like pariahs for choosing to bottle feed in those hospitals and nobody needs to be shamed for their choices in the aftermath of childbirth. Just something to think about.

      • I don’t know if this is true for all “baby-friendly” certified hospitals. It may be just as much about having baby room in with the mother after delivery, encouraging skin to skin contact early on, and offering lactation classes or consulting. I would go with the OP’s plan of a tour and a meeting, and ask about those issues.

        • the yellow one is the sun :

          Agree – I don’t think the baby-friendly designation is necessarily that extreme. Our local one definitely gives formula if the mother chooses. It focuses on the practices Marilla mentions – rooming in, skin-to-skin, and lactation consultants.

        • Never too many shoes... :

          It is actually that extreme and the rooming-in is only there to support breastfeeding on demand.

          This is from the Wiki page but contains all the policy details.

          The criteria for a hospital’s Baby Friendly accreditation include:
          1.Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
          2.Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
          3.Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
          4.Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within one half-hour of birth.
          5.Show mothers how to breastfeed and maintain lactation, even if they should be separated from their infants.
          6.Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, not even sips of water, unless medically indicated.
          7.Practice rooming in – that is, allow mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
          8.Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
          9.Give no artificial teats or pacifiers (also called dummies or soothers) to breastfeeding infants.
          10.Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or clinic.

          The program also restricts use by the hospital of free formula or other infant care aids provided by formula companies and recommends that when formula is medically needed, it should be given in a small cup or spoon, rather than a bottle and should only be used to supplement breastfeeding.

          • Anonymous :

            But isn’t this every hospital? I didn’t even know that you could find hospitals were rooming in wasn’t standard? Like they’ll take the baby to the nursery if you ask and give formula if requested but who does that? It’s not the 1970s.

          • Anonymous :

            Um, exhausted moms who have been up all night delivering a baby and need to sleep do that? You must never have given birth.

          • Plenty of new mothers welcome the opportunity to have the baby in the nursery so they can recover fully before they go home and have to do it all themselves. What’s with the attitude that no one does that? I hope this isn’t the Superior Sanctimommy Police weighing in.

        • Rooming in can be terrible for mothers, though. I was pressured to room in even though I hadn’t slept in 48 hours, and when I insisted on sending the baby to the nursery so I could get a little sleep they woke me up every 3 hours and demanded that I feed the baby even though I told them not to wake me up and to give the baby formula. It was so awful that I went home early. I never really recovered from that birth.

      • but if you’re not planning to nurse, or can’t or decide not to, baby friendly is really rough. I’ll never forget the lactation consultant and nusrses looking at me with such kindness and pity but never NEVER telling me that not nursing was ok.

    • KateMiddletown :

      I would look for a doctor first, and then figure out where they have privileges. LT the doctor will matter more than the facility, and I hate to say this but my 45 minute ride to the further away hospital is going to be worth it since the practice I’m at only delivers there.

    • Hospitals and health systems often put big bucks into upgrading their maternity wards because they know getting new parents into their system is very likely to result in a long-term relationship as the baby grows up. Really nice maternity wards are loss leaders for hospitals and it is unsurprising to me that a hospital with a less than stellar reputation would look to upgrade theirs.

      If you decide you want to deliver there, think about it you want it to become your default hospital for pediatrics visits and other things that come up. If not, either don’t deliver there or have a specific plan for who you’ll be seeing once the baby is born.

    • I’d be concerned about the quality of the NICU in this situation.

      Also, in my experience, “baby friendly” means the baby will room in with you (instead of being taken to a nursery), they will encourage you to breastfeed, and a lactation consultant will come meet with you. When my first was born, they provided him with formula because he had high bilirubin levels and they wanted him to go to the bathroom – so I’m not sure whether “baby friendly” necessarily means they will REFUSE to give formula if the situation calls for it.

      • Never too many shoes... :

        Sorry if I was unclear above, they will give only if “medically necessary” but not if formula is a feeding choice. Part of the designation is also that a hospital cannot create a relationship with a formula company so the patient would then have to pay for formula.

        I have to ask about your comment though, do any hospitals actually still have nurseries? I have never heard of that is a Canadian hospital in recent years, babies all room in.

        • The hospital where I delivered is designated “baby friendly” but still had a nursery. I delivered one before the designation and one after. Honestly, the only change I observed between the two times is that the first time I had the option to send the baby to the nursery and they would bring her back to me when hungry. The second, I couldn’t “send” the baby, though the nurses all had a policy of taking the baby on the second night (unless you objected) to do some routine “testing” (I don’t even remember what and it may have been a rouse) between midnight and 4am. Don’t fool yourself too much – even non-baby friendly hospitals push BF-ing. And just be smart about it yourself going in – if you want formula, say it and stand by your choice. I can’t understand why otherwise smart women get all gooey about this…

          • Because it can be really really isolating to be a formula feeding mom. Especially when your first baby is brand new.

        • No nursery at all? Even with rooming-in, there are some situations where the mom needs the baby in the nursery. What if you had a c-section and were on pain meds and had no partner to pick up the baby?

          • the yellow one is the sun :

            In this situation I was supposed to call the nurse as needed but I basically stayed awake with the baby sleeping on me until they took the baby for “tests” or someone arrived to visit me in the morning.

          • Never too many shoes... :

            I had a C-section and there was pretty much a nurse camped out just outside my door all night just in case. Several times she offered to take the baby and feed him so I could sleep more deeply.

            And nope. no nursery, just the NICU.

        • Anonymous :

          I’m on the east coast of Canada and I have family in Alberta and friends from uni in eastern Ontario – I haven’t heard of a hospital that didn’t have a nursery. Rooming in is standard practice but you can request that the baby go to the nursery and come back to nurse. Not sure why anyone would do that though. DH just settled baby if I wanted to sleep.

          • Never too many shoes... :

            That is super interesting. I am in Toronto. Of course, we have to be different :)

    • As someone who has never been pregnant and never intends to be but worked on med mal cases in NYC, I would pick somewhere else. Woodhull is a NYC HHC hospital and, while there are a couple of exceptions, they are generally not great.

      • Out of curiosity, what are the exceptions?

        • Anonymous :

          With the caveat that my knowledge is a few years out of date–Bellevue. And Jacobi’s not horrible. Basically the ones that have long-standing academic affiliations. But really, if you’re in NYC and have the option, go to Columbia, Cornell, or NYU (Sloan-Kettering if it’s for cancer).

      • I was going to post to find a med mal attorney, either side, and they will tell you where to avoid but thought that sounded too fear mongering. It’s good advice though.

    • Anonymous :

      Maternity ward with midwives + OBs is awesome! I would totally go for it. Best of both worlds.

  8. Unicorn tops :

    I cleaned out my closet recently and realized that I have very few tops left. I’m very large chested (38I and nursing) and sort of hourglassy/pear with a soft stomach (yay, baby weight). Size 14. I’ve figured out that the tops that make me look the best have the following features: V-neck, hit below the hip, skim my waist, and aren’t sleeveless. I feel like I have hunted all over for tops, but haven’t been able to find any that work on me. They are either too short, look like a potato sack on me, have gaping armholes (showing off my br*), have necklines that emphasize my b*st, or the tie waists are too thick and look ridiculous with my b**bs, etc. I need tops for my business casual workplace and ones for the weekend, and would like to spend less than $75 on each shirt. Any recommendations?

    • Boden Ravellos work well for me, and they usually have a V neck variation. The fabric is drapey enough that it doesn’t fit like a sack, and gathered neckline is forgiving of the girls. I have them in 2 sizes and both look pretty good. The prints camoflauge wrinkles better. Machine wash cold/gentle, hang to dry on a hanger.

    • I recently ordered the “ruffle sleeve split neck top” from Ann Taylor (if concerned about ruffles, no worries they are quite small) and I think it might be what you’re looking for. I’m a 38G UK/ 38I US and it fit me in the bust.

      I’m returning it because it is too small in the arms, but that is a common problem for me and I’m larger than you – I wear an 18W in Talbots and I thought I’d give the ann Taylor xxl size a spin, no dice.

      Will post link separately.

    • In m0d AGAIN check out an tayl0r ruffle sleeve split neck top

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Try Eloquii. They start at size 14 and are often quite small through the chest. Tons of V-necks with sleeves, free shipping and always a sale.
      http://www.eloquii.com/plus-size-tops

    • You sound like me (38G nursing size 14). I think the sleeveless part is the struggle. I have some sleeveless tops like yours that I love but I just pair them with cardigans. Particularly given the super trendy bell sleeves and ruffles on the market right now, I have given up. I can’t spend my day wondering constantly what I am dipping my arm into. Land’s End has some split necks that might fit the bill for you.

    • the yellow one is the sun :

      Commenters recently recommended the NYDJ 3/4 sleeve pintuck blouse and I’ve bought three already. Nice enough for work and easy with casual bottoms on the weekend, too. I think they might work for you. They’re on amazon in a lot of different colorways, prices vary but are generally pretty affordable.

      • the yellow one is the sun :

        Maybe the Henley Pleat version too? I can’t remember – they look similar. They have notch/v necks if unbuttoned and drape really well.

      • I don’t have the NYDJ top but looked after the last rec; there were a bunch of them at Nordstrom Rack.

  9. Help me find pants please! :

    I want some new, nice work pants that will last for a while, so a tailored look but not too trendy. I am thinking about the Boden Richmond pants. Will they make me look like I had two kids (I did) and am as a result desperate for work pants that fit (I am)? I like to look nice and put together but I have given up on fashionable because I inevitably look like (or at least feel like) a my middle school self who doesn’t have it figured out. If not those pants, any other suggestions?

    • The Eileen Fisher crepe pants. They are the bomb. Elastic waist so no tucking in, but the fabric looks dressy and stays that way after washing. They’re like wearing secret pajama pants to work and somehow still looking put together.

      • Never too many shoes... :

        I see this recommendation here all the time. Am I the only one that thinks those things are awful?

        It might be because my mother is an Eileen Fisher devotee, and while fabulous, she is 74. So perhaps they have a negative association for me.

        • Eileen Fisher will always give off an “I’m a therapist in Marin County” vibe to me (not a therapist, not in Marin).

          • You say “therapist in Marin County” like it’s a bad thing. ;)

          • I didn’t like them either. Not only did they look like PJ pants to me, my heiney would have been freezing in those pants on a cold day! So very thin!

            I have several pairs of Richmonds (I am between sizes) and like them fine. They tend to get dusty from my desk but clean up well. I do not wash them, only dry clean although I believe they are washable. The fabric is substantial. However, they read more twill than suit material and do not have belt loops which I really hate.

            I also have the hampshire pants which are ponte, more like a legging. They are soooooo comfortable. I like the Loft Julia ankle pants as well, although they fit kind of weird around my waist (like somehow tight around my middle but still gapping in the back).

        • Same.

        • EF crepe pants :

          The two times I’ve worn my Eileen Fisher crepe pants, I’ve thought “Oh, is it really time to give up?”

          As in, is it really time to give up on having a waist. It could be the light color I chose, but they just do not look tailored on me.

      • Help me find pants please! :

        Thanks – I like the idea of Eileen Fisher but unfortunately it’s never looked good on me. :(

    • pugsnbourbon :

      I just got a pair of the Audrey slim leg pants from New York & Company – they have a little stretch and are tailored-looking but not too tight. I like them a lot so far but can’t speak to how they’ll wash up.

      • Help me find pants please! :

        Thanks all! Asking this question kicked me into the “suck it up and buy some pants and return everything that doesn’t fit” mode I need to be in.

        • Anonymous :

          Yes. This. I recently bought about 10 pairs of pants from Macy’s after a desperate search of the standbys (AT, Loft, BR, Nordstroms, etc.) and found three that worked. I had luck with the Alfani and INC brands. I’m a mid-level litigator in a casual office FWIW.

    • I like these, but they seem to accumulate dust/lint quickly. I never get more than one wear out of them, which is annoying. I have two pair of Theory Navalane pants that I love. Not sure if they make them anymore, but I think there are comparable styles. Despite the tag, I machine wash (gentle) and they are fine.

      Also have and like the Brass Modern Trouser. Find the Eileen Fisher crepe good for days when I really just can’t, but not as polished as I like to be most days.

    • +1 to Pugs N Bourbon. A few pants threads on here weeks ago motivated me to try NY and Co since they have BOGO on pants. I bought the 7th avenue slim crops. They’re a little slimmer than I’m used to but they are amazing. They hold their shape, don’t attract excessive lint, and you can machine wash and dry (or line dry) them! I’m very pleased with them so far and at $25 per pair, it’s ok if they don’t last ten years. I’ve tried the EF magic pants but they just do nothing for my 5’3″ frame. They look like I’m wearing my mother’s pjs. I normally wear black AG or J Brand jeans but I’m trying to move away from business casual and more toward business.

  10. Anonymous :

    anyone else caught in mod this morning?

  11. I have been wanting a dog for many years and my kids are at an age where they can help take care of the dog (older elementary). The problem is that I am out of my home for about 9 hours a day and my kids are as well due to sports, activities, etc. I thought we would need to pay for a dog walker, but this topic came up recently at a lunch with colleagues and I learned that all 3 of my lunchmates kept their dogs in crates in their home during the day and let them out before and after work and allowed their dogs to roam free at night. I am considering this, even though I didn’t think that a dog could do this. I welcome opinions from the hive on whether a crate can work or whether it’s cruel for the dog. Please note that I had a small dog growing up but also had a stay at home mom and I came home right after school everyday so it was not an issue.

    • 9 hours can work, but I’d be pretty sure it’s only nine hours. More than that and you’ll need a walker.

    • Isabella the She-Wolf :

      9 hrs is much too long. I prefer not to leave my dog for more than 4, never more than 6.
      Could you go that long without a bathroom break every day?

      • This is simply untrue. Many dogs are fine for 9 hours in a crate. They are not people, that is a silly comparison. More than 9 hours isn’t okay.

      • What job do you have? I want it.

        • I go home every day at lunch to take my dog out, which is mostly a function of being 15 minutes from my office, but also because my boss doesn’t track where we are at all hours of the day and office culture supports that (generally). I am in contract management.

        • Isabella the She-Wolf :

          Like Anonymous, my ability to let my dog out at lunch is a function of my short commute time. I would probably install a dog door if I couldn’t.

          Apparently my dogs (multiple over the years) have been somewhat unusual. Even as perfectly house-trained adults, they will only sleep 8 hours at night max before they wake me up urgently needing to go out.

          That said, I don’t think comparing their bathroom needs to ours is crazy–mammalian bladder physiology is not that different. Like us, they will hold it because they are strongly socialized. Doesn’t mean we should force them to on a daily basis.

    • Our dog is crated daily from 8:30 til 6. If he could be trusted to not channel his inner Tasmanian Devil, we’d happily keep him out during the day. Look into getting an adult dog (vs a puppy) who has a chill temperament and is thoroughly housebroken.

    • Personally, I wouldn’t stay away 9 hours a day without getting a mid-day dog walker. I think it’s really hard on the dog to be cooped up that long. It’s fine if it happens every once in a while, but 9 hours in a small crate every workday just seems to be too much in my opinion. That said, every dog is different. If you do go this route make sure to get a breed of dog that is low-energy. Otherwise you will come home to a chewed-up crate and very frustrated dog.

      • +1 You need an adult dog with low energy to leave alone for that long and you’d be better off with a dog walker to give the dog a break. You also need to have the time and energy to exercise the dog when you are home.

    • Our adult dog with no health issues is totally fine home from 8:30-5:30. He can go longer, but I prefer not to make him wait like that. He used to be crated, then he was confined to one room ‘his’ room, but now he roams the house and is totally fine. If I have an event after work, I’ll run home at lunch to play a game of fetch with him.

      Puppies definitely need to be let out more frequently – the rule I knew was one hour for every month of age.

      • Yeah, our two trustworthy adult dogs are fine in the house while we are at work. We feed at set times as opposed to free feed so their potty habits are somewhat predictable. When we are home, we let them out into our fenced yard as much as they want. When they were younger, we made sure they got daily walks or daycare a couple of times a week, but that was for energy channeling. A dogwalker would have worked too. They are elderly now so they are pretty happy to rotate sleeping spots during the day.

        • Crating was hard for us because our dog never considered his crate “his house” and always looked a little dejected when he had to go in it. We set up a camera once and confirmed that he’d finish his snack and then nap all day, so we knew he wasn’t pouting all day, but it still was hard for us. We now have 2 dogs that have free reign of our main level and I’m pretty sure they take turns looking out the window and napping on the bed.

          I think the set feeding times and the expectation that the dogs do their business right before we leave and as soon as we come home have helped to keep them on a schedule. Both are about 4 years old so still rather sprightly but don’t need to go out very often.

          We also prioritize taking them on walks in the evenings and will take them to the dog park after work once the time changes.

      • Anonymous :

        This is what it was like with our dogs when I was a kid. If there was a risk that mom or dad wouldn’t be home by 5/5:30pm then they would come home at lunchtime instead. Dog mostly slept all day, playing with kids and long walk in the evening. Dogs sleep a lot more than people.

    • Personally, I do not think that crating for that long is ideal. It might not actively destroy your dog’s mental and physical health, but they will not thrive in the same way as dogs that are active throughout the day. They need mental and physical stimulation. I would 100% pay for a dog walker and also consider doggy day care on some days.

      • Baconpancakes :

        Agreed – I think if anything, crating seems to make dogs more destructive when they’re let out of the crate. (This is based on a relatively small sample size but has been my experience.)

        My dog growing up was alone from 7:30 to 4:00, and she seemed perfectly happy, but she always had a doggy door and a fenced in yard.

    • Anon in NYC :

      Personally, I don’t crate my dog all day because I do think it’s a little cruel. Of course, my dog doesn’t really do much during the day – she generally just sleeps – but at least, in my mind, she has the ability to roam if she so chose. Keep in mind, though, that as a very general rule, puppies can only hold pee/bowel movements for an hour for each month old they are (1 mo = 1 hour, 2 mo = 2 hours, etc.). So I don’t think it would be conducive to leaving a puppy in their crate for an entire workday because they’ll make a mess in their crate and you also don’t want them to associate the crate with where they relieve themselves. What I did at that stage was to barricade my dog in non-carpeted areas (the kitchen) with a pad.

    • I am a huge advocate for crate training as long as that’s how they’ve grown up. For example, my lab puppy has been crated {for varying amounts of time depending on age} since we brought him home. His crate has been all he’s known. he’s almost 2 years and we JUST started him roam the house during the day. He’s very mild mannered.

      If you adopt an older dog, I think it will be a hard transition to keeping him/her in a crate for extended periods of time. Then again, you’re not the first person to deal with this.

      Do you have a laundry room you could keep him in? Again, I wouldn’t leave a puppy unattended for long periods of time in a tiled room {RIP baseboards} but an older dog maybe.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      It depends on the dog. My dog easily goes 9 hours. How do I know it’s easy? Because she does it when we are home too. We had a mostly empty office yesterday and those that were here are dog lovers so I brought her to work. I took her on a one mile walk mid day. She never went to the bathroom and didn’t ask to go out any other time. When I work from home all day I’ll let her out midday and she will run around or play with her ball but she won’t pee or poop. She goes before work, after work and before bed, on a perfect schedule.

      As a human, you likely sleep 8 hours at night without getting up to use the bathroom, even if you use the bathroom more during the day. For dogs that sleep all day, it’s the same.

      What we’ve done with both of the dogs we had in our lives is we crated them until they could safely be out and then we let them out alone while we did short errands, 2 hours max. Then we worked it up to 4 hours, and eventually they could be let out free in the house all day.

    • Crating a dog for 9 hours is not cruel, as they will basically sleep the whole time (people often greatly underestimate how much their dogs sleep, a camera on mine showed her sleeping for 7 our of 8 hrs gone) but being able to stretch their legs, stand up fully, turn around and space for a few toys and water bowl without knocking it over are essential. At that point, if its a decent sized dog, you might as well put up a dog gate in a room without carpet, it’s the best of both worlds.

      Also, adult dogs that are ideally already house trained are the easiest route to go; unfortunately the local shelter has plenty.

    • My dogs are confined to my kitchen and utility room via baby gate from 8:30-6pm. I probably could let them roam the house, but their beds and toys are all in this area – and they pretty much sleep all day as it is. If I am able to make it home for lunch, they are excited to see me. However, they want to play and have little interest in going to the bathroom.

      When they were puppies, I purchased a Pet Loo (basically a piece of AstroTurf over a puppy pad). They used it regularly until they were almost two. Now they will go weeks without using it, but at least I have piece of mind to know it is there if they need it.

    • Also, I would not get a dog if I knew I would crate it all day every day. That’s just me, but I think you owe it to any pet to give them the best life possible. Crating sometimes is one thing, but day in and day out is too much.

    • Why can’t the dog roam the house during the day?

      • Not having a house to come back to. Many dogs are chill during the day. Others will chew through drywall. You never know which until you already have the dog.

    • Would you consider an older dog? I adopted my dog at 8 and she was able to be home for 8-9 hours alone without crating for many years. I did have to crate her occasionally, but she did great with water and food and lounging around the house. She died at age 15.5 and I was grateful for many years with her. Older rescue dogs also languish in shelters sometimes so you are doing a great thing there, too!

      She was an extremely chill dog, and the volunteers who took care of her let me know she was a great dog for a person who was single at the time and working FT.

    • Get a greyhound – they sleep all day like cats

      • Of Counsel :

        This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Retired racing greyhounds are incredibly mellow, used to being crated, usually not destructive and really sweet.

    • We crated our dog during the first year or so we had her. I felt very mean doing it, especially at first. She would whimper and whine for about 5 minutes when first crated and then calm down (I know because I would stand outside the door of our condo and listen, while feeling like a monster.) I believe she was stressed mainly because she didn’t think we would come back. As she got older she got less destructive and we started to leave her out more and more. Now, after 3 years, she has the run of the house and we never have problems. This is definitely not true for every dog, we just got lucky.

    • Get a cat.

    • I don’t think “cruel” is the right word, but I wouldn’t/don’t do it.

      When we had our (now passed) adult dog (golden retriever), he was free all the time at home (day and night) after his first year, and the dogwalker came midday every work day.

      Now we have a lab puppy. She’s crated at night and for 1-2 of her daytime naps (loves her crate!) but free the rest of the time. I work from home now. When i’m on travel (and husband is at work), dogwalker comes every 3 hours from time husband leaves.

      Both dogs got a long morning and evening walk from us, in addition to quick potty breaks as needed.

    • It depends on the breed and age of the dog.

      I have a 5 year old shih tzu, and she is completely fine at home for 9 hours. She is house trained, and we don’t crate her during the day. She sleeps all day, and when I get home, she is often still asleep and I need to wake her. On days I work from home, I try to take her for a mid-day walk, but honestly, she often is sleeping and seems like she does not want to go.

      Of course, I expect when she is older, she may need a mid-day walker because older dogs have different needs.

    • New to NoVA :

      Like many others have said, it depends on the breed, age, and personality of the dog. We have a 13 year old corgi (adopted him at age 8) who is so lazy he lays down and whimpers in protest if we try to take him for a walk longer than a few blocks (multiple vets have said he’s fine/not in pain, it’s just that his preferred state is “lying down indoors”). My husband’s between jobs, so the corgi is out of his crate more than usual, but we typically crate him for between 7.5 and 9 hours each workday. We call his crate his house, and he’s always happy to go in and spends a good chunk of time sleeping in there anyways when we’re home. I don’t think crating him while we’re out is anything close to cruel, but I’d of course feel differently (and we wouldn’t have adopted him, given our work situation) if he had a different personality or energy level.

    • In case you are still reading this, OP, I crate my 3 pups for about 11 hours a day. After that they have the run of the house and the yard. Two of the three would be perfectly fine if we let them wander during the work day. The third would pee on everything (we love her dearly, but goodness!), so as a result everyone gets crated. The only time we’ve come home to an “accident” is when one of them is sick.
      They are not sad/mentally compromised/physically compromised/abused. They are happy, bouncy, smiley, arguable spoiled dogs that run into their crates in the morning when it’s time :-)
      My biggest advice would be to get an “older” pup. A 1 year old dog is a puppy in every way but size and bladder control. Please don’t let 9 hours keep you. I promise they will be fine.

  12. I LOVE this dress.

  13. I ordered the MMLafleur Marsha dress in the new navy plaid. Really pretty. Fits slightly smaller in the thigh area than the plum version. I wear a +2.

    I’m 5’11” and love the length.

    I love the lightweight wool fabric.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Navy plaid? I did not even see that yet. I have been coveting the plum for quite some time but navy plaid sounds so work-perfect.

  14. Wtf with the m0deration yesterday and today UGH

  15. Anyone taken a gap year early-mid career? Debating whether I should.

    • Do you mean a year of just…not working? Sounds awesome if you can swing it and not have career fall out (most people have family and bills to worry about and can’t). What would be the point though? I feel like you’d need a compelling story to tell about why you have a gap year your resume at 30, especially without children or relatives to care for.

      • Lana Del Raygun :

        I agree with this. If it’s just “well I had the money and I wanted to see the world,” that could be hard to explain, but if it’s “I spent a year in [country] to improve my [language]” and you’re using that language, or you did a year of service that’s at least tangentially relevant to your career, that makes a lot more sense.

      • To an extent, it’d be a year of not working. I’d be using it to take time off and probably try my hand at a side business while I’m at it. (I won’t be able to try the side business while employed due to a restrictive employer.)

        • Are you independently wealthy? If so enjoy! If not I think you need to think harder about how you’ll get a job again.

    • That’s…not a thing.

      Lots of people take time off from working but we usually call that “unemployed.”

      • Really? I know tons of people who took gap years after high school and even after college.

        • J Crew Pants :

          Right, but taking a gap year before college is way different from deciding not to quit your job for a year.

        • LOL, that is so not the same thing as quitting your job and being unemployed for a year.

      • Nope. One of my close work friends is just re entering the workforce after a 2.5 year sabbatical of his own choosing (ie did not get laid off, quit on his own). He’s not independently wealthy but is a good saver and had budgeted for up to three years. He lives in a LCOL area. He’s early 40s.

        • Well, a sabbetical is typically taking off (unpaid?) time from a job and going back to the same job/employer. Leaving a job, not working, and then finding a new job is just taking time off/unemployed. And it’s not called a gap year. Gap years are time between HS and college.

          I mean, you can do it (obviously), it just takes saving and planning for reentry.

          • His new employer (not the same as prior) put it in their announcement letter/Linked In post. “After taking a two and a half year sabbatical, focused on volunteering for professional org….”

            He says it was a sabbatical, his new employer agrees it was a sabbatical. I’m not sure why you think you get to decide what it was.

    • Combination of questions and observations:

      I graduated from professional school into the recession and sometimes *still* have to explain resume gaps from almost a decade ago. It can hurt you for a long time in ways you are not anticipating.

      Doing this will make you look flightly, and justifiably so.

      What side business do you want to try your hand at? Is that an actual side business (e.g., something that could legitimately be described as entrepreneurship), or are you basically earning glorified pocket money?

      What is your current industry?

      Why can’t you just find another job that enables you to have a side business? (The women here will do an outstanding job at coaching you through questions in an interview for why you want to leave the current job.)

      Do you have a business plan for this side business?

      How old are you? Are you in an area wherein culturally, this is more acceptable? Do you have a “story” that makes this sound like you aren’t flaky and independently wealthy (e.g., did you work your way through college, holding down three jobs to pay your tuition, went straight to a high-powered job, and need a break)?

      I just feel like leaving the workforce to start your own business is something that is acceptable and understood. But it’s kind of weird to plan on the business not succeeding and returning to a similar job when your business invariably fails.

      • Really useful response and anecdote. I do want to be careful about implications to future career opportunities.

        Side business: I don’t think it’d be described as entrepreneurship initially, but it’d have potential to be with enough growth.

        New job: I’m not opposed to finding a new position. The difficulty is that I’m looking to leave my current field. I’ve been looking on company websites at postings and feel really restricted by the nature of my work experience. For what it’s worth, the side business would relate to what I want to do.

        • Also, the “story” you mentioned is similar to mine.

        • What field are you in now, and what field do you want to be in?

          I think there are likely better ways to make the switch than just taking a gap year without much of a plan.

    • The people I know who took a sabbatical did it to travel the world. It was a thing in Morocco, about 3-4 years ago many people who worked at multinationals (high income) wanted to start a travel b-log. I personally know at least 6 people who did this.
      A few came back to Morocco and started working again, but for most it was never the same career again. A few ended up giving up on their corporate career and trying to make a living from side businesses related to travel.

    • It can’t be a gap (otherwise you will be forever answering Qs to make sure you weren’t sacked / unemployed or in prison or having a breakdown). It has to be for something (election monitor in Kosovo, teach for america, teach English in China, etc.; I’m not saying there can’t be liberal travel also if that is what you really want to do).

    • Rainbow Hair :

      It was early career, a few years after I finished law school, but I took a super cushy one-year fellowship halfway around the world. Because it was super cushy, I got to travel all over the region. But the proviso was… I basically hit restart on my career. That was intentional; I think that if I had wanted to pick up again where I left off, it wouldn’t have worked very well.

    • I know of a few attorneys who have done it (not sure what your field is or whether it’s comparable). Mostly they came back to working for themselves, which meant that they didn’t have to explain the gap year to an employer. All the ones I know had very specific plans for their time off (think biking across the southern part of the US) – and travel plan that they ended up blogging about and sharing via social media. I think this is one of those weird limited times where having a social media record of what you did may actually make it easier to explain to an employer.

    • I took a gap year 4 years into my legal career (big law associate in secondary market). My husband and I both quit our jobs and spent the year traveling, but we had a well thought out plan around re-entry in the workforce. We took an overlapping piece of our professional backgrounds, kept a blog on that issue that balanced both pure travel experiences with case studies in that professional area. We brought our expertise to local business/organizations that we networked with along the way, essentially performing unpaid consulting services in various countries. In truth it was 90% travel and about 10% consulting, but it was enough to keep a straight face when interviewing. This was also nearly 10 years ago, and gave us good business experience (we incorporated as an LLC) in social media, budgeting, professional writing and networking. We had also saved enough to cover our expenses for 2-3 years post-return, just in case it took a long time to find employment. Long story short, my husband was hired back by his fortune 50 company (with a promotion and a raise, and in the area that we focused on during our trip) and I landed in house at another fortune 50 company that valued my business perspective from my travels. While my husband’s compensation increased, having this gap (and a nontraditional background) probably lowered my starting compensation which of course will follow me in my career. But for me the experience was completely worth it, and is something our family is considering doing again when our kids are a little bit older.

  16. I am starting a new job where I will have to do 1-2 days of travel from time to time. I’m therefore looking for a small roller bag that I can easily fit into an overhead bin on a plane and that is otherwise the right size for just a few days of travel. Right now, I have a huge selection of college-era duffel bags and some large roller suitcases, all too big, heavy and unprofessional looking for my new role. Thanks for any advice!

    • Hit “post” too soon! I am also in the market for a professional-looking non-leather backpack for my daily commute. I have been having shoulder issues for the past six months, and I think they are caused by my purse, so I am going to try the backpack route for a bit. I don’t carry all that much to work, so it doesn’t have to be humongous, although it does need to support a laptop. Thanks for any tips on this front as well!

    • Check TJMaxx and the like for carryons. I just got a SwissGear bag that’s fine for 2-3 days of travel and fits in the overhead bin for many planes.

    • Lana Del Raygun :

      I have a Samsonite that I like! It’s the kind with casters so you can roll it upright or leaning, which I liked a lot in college because it was easier to pile other things on top of it when I was coming home for summer with wayyy too much stuff. The casters mean it takes up a bit more space in a trunk, but it still fits fine in an overhead bin. I was originally nervous they’d break off but that seems to have been unfounded.

      • Gail the Goldfish :

        I have a similar Samsonite that I use for 1-3 day trips. It’ll fit in the overhead bin on everything except the smaller regional planes (like the ones with a 1-2 configuration in first, and it really will fit in those some of the time, if you can get it past the gate agent)

        • Gail the Goldfish :

          And I have found that if it doesn’t fit in the overhead, nothing with wheels other than one of those rolling laptop bags would fit, and those are too small for me to get more than 1 change of clothes.

    • I had an awesome black cloth rollaboard from Costco that I would rebuy in an instant. It lasted 15 years of being non-babied.

      I replaced it with a hard shell rollaboard from Away that is also very good. But if I had to rebuy, I’d confess to missing the Costco bag’s external pocket and probably go that way (I was feeling like I was too good for Kirkland brand luggage at the moment).

      But I got a monogram on the Away bag that I love, so I’m OK with spending ~300 vs ~125 this time. It’s not my bag spending that keeps me from being rich when I do it every other decade.

    • I LOVE my Eagle Creek rolling bag. I think it’s perfectly professional looking in black and it is different enough that no one else grabs it.

      • +1 I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my Eagle Creek rolling bag, which has handles like a duffle, but is a two wheeled bag that fits in the overhead bin. It is small enough for 1-2 day trips, but, honestly, I used it as my only bag in Europe for 10 days, and it was great for that too. I would buy it again in a heartbeat — my current bag is 9 years old, has gotten a ton of use, and still is in one piece!

    • I have an overnight Hartman hard side spinner roller that I absolutely love. I think I got it on sale at Amazon.

      I subscribe to the “get the best inexpensive (under $100) bag and then toss it when it breaks” theory of luggage buying. Others believe in the “spend a lot and get a great piece that will last for years” model, which I can’t speak to. I get sick of luggage (and like to upgrade) and want to not feel bad getting rid of it when it’s time comes. I’ll be driving the same car til I’m 100, but darn it, my luggage will be new.

  17. J Crew Pants :

    I know J Crew has gone downhill in recent years but has anyone liked their Cameron or “French girl” pant? I’m excited to see they’re offering pants in bigger sizes now. I’m a 16/18 and desperately need budget-friendly office pants that are a step above my usual Gap or Old Navy.

    • No experience with the JCrew pants, but that’s because I’m usually sized/shaped out (I’m curvy; JCrew pants have never worked for me), and don’t like their quality decline. I’m a 14/16, and I love the Loft Riviera pants. They look basically the same, and the quality has been consistently high (esp in contrast to their price), and they come in both a straight and curvier cut (Julie and Marisa).

    • I tried on the high-rise Cameron yesterday. I went up 1 size from my usual J.Crew size (from 4 to 6). I’m a pear and it gaped a little at the waist. Although high-rise, it was not quite as high-rise as I’d hoped. The material (poly/viscose/elastane) did not feel especially nice, but it was substantial-feeling and (I think? can’t remember) lined.

      I didn’t buy it but I also don’t need fancy pants very often; if I did I might have.

    • Anonymous :

      I haven’t tried either of those, but I did recently buy a pair of the Edie fit and the Maddie fit and loved them both. I am pear shaped and always struck out with J Crew pants in the past, but these two fits somehow ended up being totally perfect for me. I think it’s definitely worth trying, since it seems like they may have been tweaking their shape recently.

    • Anonymous :

      I have one pair of the Cameron pants and like them a lot. I sized up one and it fit perfectly (per reviews).

    • I LOVE my Cameron pants, I have them in four colors. Machine wash and hang to dry, never have had to iron, and wear them each probably 3-4x/month for a year and they look exactly the same.

  18. A funny story of how my Monday evening went for all you ladies. Had a gentleman caller over for a LGP; in the middle of some gardening and he couldn’t find the glove. Determined it was inside the shed (I don’t know the proper gardening euphemism for that…). Couldn’t find it for a while, so let it be and would try again later. Finished up and was sitting on the bed taking a breather, when my cat walks into the bedroom and gentleman caller says “is she limping?” Why yes, yes she was. So with a swollen paw, I whisk her to the e-vet, where they said, she’s fine, go see your normal vet in the morning, don’t stay here. Got home and retrieved missing glove. Gentleman caller was very nice about the whole thing (helped me corner her a bit, carried her carrier down to the car for me, wanted to know how she was doing, etc.).

    If he makes it to Date #3, he’s a keeper according to my mother.

  19. What percentage do most people spend on housing+transportation together?

    • 35% of take Home for me.

    • BabyAssociate :

      ~27% of take home. However, I don’t own a car and walk to work, so my transportation costs are minimal.

    • I don’t know about “most people” – I spend 32%.

    • 22% of take-home

    • Marshmallow :

      A little under 25% of take home; HCOL area with public transportation commute.

    • biglawanon :

      15% of take home

    • 21% of take home for both DH and me. Cars are paid off so transportation cost is just gas. I did not include maintaining the cars.

    • 30%. No commute.

    • I spend very little on my apartement b/c Dad pays the morgage, and the maintenance is something that he decided to take over when I told him I needed to up my 401K to the max b/c I do not have a husband to help me. So all I realy handle are Christmas tips and incindentals around the apartement, such as new draperies, carpeting in the post-Sheketovits world is more manageable –no vomit; and nick-nack’s to decorate the place. As a percentage, it is de-minimus, but I am lucky for now. We havent figured out exactly what I will pay in the new place. I don’t even want to move, so I think Dad will pay for all of it –beside, he is goieng to stay over a few nites a week when he teaches at Colombia University. It is a few stops away on the Express train. I don’t go up there, but I guess I will once he starts the semester. YAY!!! Professor Barshevsky again!!!! I dare not raise my hand to ask a question or he will ask me to stand up and then everyone will see my tuchus! FOOEY!

  20. Help me shop! :

    I saw a woman this weekend wearing a hot pink/fuschia peacoat, and I fell in love with it. Any help finding one would be appreciated. I’ve searched a bit online and found a gorgeous Michael Kors one, but all the reviews say it’s not true to color :(

    • I used to own something like this (not my listing, btw), and it was THE BEST. Gap made one a few years back, so not current but

      https://poshmark.com/listing/SALEGap-wool-pea-coat-5a8a34185512fd217e301cad

    • Legally Brunette :

      I I have been searching for the same for years! Ted Baker has a gorgeous one but not crazy about the sash on me personally.

      http://www.tedbaker.com/us/Womens/Clothing/Jackets-And-Coats/KEYLA-Short-wrap-cashmere-blend-coat-Fuchsia/p/138118-FUCHSIA

      • I did see that one too, and I agree about the sash – love it, but it would probably look weird on me. Thank you!!

      • Oooh, I so don’t need a $500 coat but I want that! I bought a hot pink suit recently and I just really want hot pink everything now.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      JCrew has some really pretty pink coats. I got the Stadium Coat earlier this year in a purple-fuschia and I feel like Jackie Kennedy in it (feature, not a bug).

      • Legally Brunette :

        The color of that Jcrew coat is so beautiful, but I didn’t like the fit on me — too boxy.

  21. Thank you email :

    Just had a 45 min phone call (was meant to be 30 min) with a potential employer. I think I did ok because at the end he said he really had to run but will try to schedule the face to face interview (normally the next step in their hiring process). How long do I wait until sending a thank you email for the phone interview? Also any ideas on wording? I was very relaxed and confident (though the moment I ended the call, adrenaline hit and was shaking).
    I am currently on the last stretch of a layoff and will be out of job by end of week so this means a lot to me.

    • Don’t overthink it! Just send a note sometime today thanking him for his time, saying you enjoyed the conversation, and look forward to moving forward with next steps. If there is some particular detail from the conversation you can mention, such as, “It was great to hear about Company’s plans to expand X market – that’s exciting!”, that can help it feel more personal.

      I think the only way you can go wrong with a thank you email is glaring grammatical errors, like “Wonderful to here more about the work your doing at Company!” The content itself can be pretty banal but proofread carefully.

  22. Least favorite thing about getting ready in the mornings? Mine is currently blow drying my hair, tied with pulling in tights/hosiery.

    It used to be getting the kids to school but I outsourced that :)

    • Every morning I have a panic that I’ve forgotten to turn off my flat iron so I always go back to check and it’s always off.

      • BeenThatGuy :

        I used this with my iron. Now I say out-loud “the iron is off”. Sometimes I go as far as “the iron is off and moved”. My brain remembers the words not the action. Give it a try.

      • I have found that saying out loud “turning off flat iron” as you do so helps it stick in your brain that you did it.

      • I say out loud that I’m turning it off. Crazy but it works!

      • Never too many shoes... :

        I changed to unplugging it. The physical act of yanking the plug out of the wall seems to stick in my mind better.

        • I have to physically put it back in the drawer. Hot rollers or flat iron must be Unplugged and stowed, just like on the airplane.

    • Lana Del Raygun :

      Getting out of bed.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Convincing the kid that breakfast is over and it’s time to get in the car.

    • Getting out of bed. I’ve eliminated basically everything else. I shower at night and air dry my hair, so I just brush it and put it up in the morning. I’ve minimized my makeup routine so now it takes five minutes and I have everything lined up. I get up, wash my face, get dressed, take the dog out, brush my teeth, put on makeup and do my hair, then I leave. I hate mornings and cutting it to the bare minimum helps me get through my routine.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Blow drying hair for sure. Except on leg-shaving day, and then it’s leg-shaving.

    • Putting on makeup. If I looked halfway decent without makeup I would go without.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Nebulizing. It takes half an hour plus the time to gather the supplies, it means that my morning routine takes twice as long as it normally does, I can’t combine it with any other getting-ready stuff because I also wear a vest that shakes me at the same time and I’m limited to about a three-foot radius from the machine, and it’s exhausting.

      I don’t know how people get ready quickly. It is not a skill I possess. Everything takes me forever in the morning because I’m just so slow.

      • I hear you. I help my relative get ready in the morning and it takes….3 hrs.

        Disability can really su3k. People have no idea….

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        It really does- from the time I wake up to the time I leave is 3 hours. It also sucks because I need more sleep than most people because of my illness, but I also have to get up earlier because of my illness.

  23. Test

  24. Can someone reality check me? Yesterday someone asked about buttonless blazers for their niece with autism. I gave some suggestions and went back to look today to see if the person found anything that would work for her. I don’t see any of the thread. Did I dream this whole exchange?

    • It’s in the “Coffee Break: Things” post toward the bottom. I was really pleased to see everyone’s answers as I did not realize this was a thing!

      • thank you! I think because the picture on that post was white I scrolled right by it. and me too!

      • cake batter :

        +1 that discussion was fascinating because I didn’t know about that particular sensitivity. The random life things I learn from this forum!

  25. Does anyone have experience getting a tattoo sleeve while working in a professional setting? I want to start with a 1/2 sleeve. Seeing this dress and a colleague’s long-sleeve LBD today has me thinking maybe I could pull it off and still look professional. Thoughts? Tips?

    • Do you want to always, always, have to wear sleeves?

      • LOL.

        I don’t have a full sleeve but I have tons of tattoos and here I am sitting at my desk in a short sleeved shirt. It has literally never been a problem for me. (I will add that I do not work in Big Law, but I do work in a “professional setting”.) I work with lots of people with tattoos. My boss has a tongue ring. It’s not a big deal.

        • It would be a big deal at my workplace and I’m in the progressive Bay Area. We are finance industry, business casual. But no visible tattoos and no facial or other non-ear piercings.

    • Anonymous :

      Would it be completely inappropriate to have it showing at any time in the office? In my office, it would be totally fine to have it showing except in situations where I would be wearing a suit jacket anyway, so it’s NBD. Then again, I often appear in front of a judge who has an inner wrist tattoo that is visible if you approach the bench (or have eagle eyes). If you are in an office and field where you would be limited to having it covered by sleeves, then it’s a tougher balance. Personally, I would still go for it because having my giant tattoo (on my ribs) makes me incredibly happy.

    • Of Counsel :

      If you want to wear sleeves long enough to cover it for the rest of your working life then go for it. But realize that you are committing to wearing sleeves forever or switching jobs.

      That is not to say there are no professional jobs where you could get away with a half-sleeve, but they are few and far between.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      I have a tattoo that goes from the top of my shoulder down my arm most of the way to my elbow. I love it.

      I got it while I was litigating (always wore a blazer to court) so it didn’t matter. I’m in house now, so I just always buy dresses with sleeves. It’s not that hard! I did have to stop buying cute sleeveless things and convincing myself “I’ll wear it with a sweater” because that’s too much work for my morning laziness. But sleeved dresses make it easy. I feel more professional with my shoulders covered anyway – like the extra fabric reminds me I’m at work?

      My boss first saw my tattoo after about 8 months (we were at a brewery with our spouses and kids and it was too hot for sleeves); my CEO first saw it after about 2.5 years (at my brother’s wedding – my brother is a tattoo artist); the two other colleagues with whom I work closely, maybe around the 2 year mark, at outside-of-work social events. No one seems to care. I think the fact that they didn’t know it was there for years proves that they don’t have to worry about me flashing it in inappropriate contexts. (“Inappropriate” is BS but I work with a bunch of conservative old dudes who have dumb ideas about women in particular, so whatever.)

      I just made an appointment to get my next tattoo and I’m SO EXCITED! (Will also be upper arm or shoulder.)

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Blah my comment is in m0d. But I am team “Get tattoos! I don’t regret it at all! Maybe like 3 times a year do I wish I could wear something sleeveless to work!”

      Also funny (?) anecdote. I work with someone who is kind of trash. He doesn’t like his daughter in law. He was complaining about her to me, once, and said, “and her birthday’s coming up, ugh I guess I’ll like, get her a gift certificate for tattoos.” And I’m thinking “wow he’s cooler than I thought!” and before I could say “what a great idea!” he said “because she just has so many tattoos, and I guess she’ll never get a good job…” Oh. Oops, he was being sarcastic. Fast forward to a few months later, he is complaining about her again. “She doesn’t cook, and her dad’s a doctor, and you can’t tell her anything.”

      Me: daughter of a doctor, does not cook, has tattoos, and you can’t tell me anything. I bit my tongue, and later that night I told my boss and we shared a good laugh about it.

    • I work in a professional setting, and have a ¾ sleeve tattoo. No formal rules around needing to conceal tattoos, but I keep it covered to maintain professionalism. I always keep a cardigan or jacket in my office when attending meetings to ensure it’s covered. It’s pretty easy to get into the habit of purchasing clothing that will easily cover it up for work. No regrets whatsoever in terms of getting the tattoo! If you want it badly enough, I say get it!

  26. Question for litigators :

    What tasks/job duties are typical for 1st and 2nd year associates? And to what extent, if any, should we be expected to complete those tasks independently- without asking those more senior questions?

    • Depends dramatically on type of firm and practice area. More details needed.

    • Marshmallow :

      Need lots more detail, but I always tell folks junior to me when in doubt, ask. I’d rather you ask and I have to explain now than you do it wrong and I have to fix it later. But don’t ask about the same thing twice. Ask, learn, do it independently next time.

    • Research, memo writing, document review, discovery question and answer/objection drafting, maybe an initial case assessment?

  27. Anonymous Toastmaster :

    You guys, I really need to share this victory! I won my Toastmasters club speech contest! I move on to the area contest next… it’s my first time. I am SO EXCITED. I was insanely nervous about this speech – it was extremely personal and I wasn’t sure it would be well received. I am so giddy about this that I’m having trouble working! Thanks for letting me gush :).

  28. I have worked in a vry specialized area of the law for two years in a relatively small city in the midwest. I am interested in switching to a more lucrative area of law and moving to a larger city, but all of my experience throughout law school was focused on my current specialty. How do I learn a new area of law and network with people to make this switch? I fear that those with whom I network will dismiss me as a potential hire given my limited scope of experience. All thoughts appreciated.

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