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Tuesday’s TPS Report: Two-Tone Dress

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Robert Rodriguez Two-Tone Dress CUSP by Neiman Marcus is having its “First Cuts Sale,” and there are a ton of great dresses from brands like DvF, Tory Burch, Milly, and more — primarily in lucky sizes. For today's TPS I'm liking this Robert Rodriguez dress. Throw a cardigan or blazer on top of it and I can see it getting some serious wear in the office — yet for some reason I also get a Jazz Age garden party vibe (which I don't even think is a thing). The dress was $285, but is now marked to $171 at CUSP (and available in XS-L). Robert Rodriguez Two-Tone Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-3)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

262 Comments

  1. I love this dress.

    Does anyone else think the Peter Pan collared thing Rebekah Brooks is wearing in all the media shots today is bizarre?

    3. I wonder if it was intentional — meant to cast here as naive and innocent. But I agree it looks absurd.

  2. I just wanted to update all of you who responded to my post asking for pen recommendations for my father-in-law. We ended up buying a Cross pen and some fine point refills, and he was thrilled with it. Thank you for the advice!

  3. I don’t love the hem – I think it would only look good when standing up straight and standing still, like the model, not moving, walking, sitting, slouching (not that I would EVER slouch…)

    1. I am also on the fence about the hem, but I love the rest of this dress. It’s a challenge to find work appropriate white dresses, imo. This one is great. No weird bridal or virginal vibe, and the black edges seem like they are perfectly designed to keep dirt and stains at bay.

      1. I have a white dress that I love & wear to work. One day I wore my hair up & put a cardigan over the dress – it was very Nurse Ratchet. Got to be careful with the styling!

    2. I’m torn on it myself. I think it looks great in the picture but I fear it would only look sloppy on me in real life.

    4. Also not a fan of the hem, but I live the dress otherwise. As symmetrical things don’t do it for me

        1. With that hem, it’d look weird with a blazer. And possibly even with a cardigan. Because you wouldn’t see where it began, you’d just see this …t(r)ail of fabric to your side.

          1. With the hem, its going to just look weird (no matter what you’re wearing with it) you have to be okay with the weirdness to like it. :-P

          2. Yeah, but there’s intentional weirdness (wearing the dress alone), and showing the nice asymmetry of the hem, and then there’s unintentional weirdness (dress under a blazer) where it just looks like a mistake or sh!tty design.

  4. This is VERY cute, and mabye I will look in to trying it on. The manageing partner is thinking of bringeing in a nerdy guy from the Dewey’s law firm that the manageing partner said is imxplodeing. He is also a 5th year attorney. Fooey!

    I interviewed with the LaBuff firm for a summer job after my first year, but I decided NOT to go there b/c there was to much presure to work alot of hours. Now this nerdy guy might be comeing in here, and if he DOES I think may take over alot of my work.

    I may have to start lookeing for that general council position IN house, b/c I do NOT want to work every weekend. Or else, I need to think about teacheing at a nearby law school b/c I do NOT want to go back to DC. FOOEY!

  5. HoD note for anyone interested….

    TEAM WADE FOREVER!!!!

    (Please ignore if you have better taste in television than me.)

    1. I am going to get a rough draft of my paper done and then curl up and watch last night’s episode! I love it.

      1. I love Wade. He’s on my list of “men who shouldn’t be allowed to wear shirts ever”. :-)

    2. Haven’t watched it yet. Watched Sherlock with my parents last night instead.

      1. The CW has gotten so much better at getting the shows up. I am watching the GG Season Finale as I type, so HoD should be up as well.

      2. I love Sherlock! Although the notable lack of real, fleshed-out female characters (until this season) was incredibly annoying to me, I still watched the dang thing. I’m an episode behind, so I don’t know what’s happening–no spoilers!–but I am intrigued by The Woman…

        1. That’s my main problem with Sherlock. It’s great that the show revolves around John and Sherlock’s bromance/romance, but when the female characters boil down to girlfriends or victims…. urgh. :(

          1. Mrs. Hudson!

            The show is so much about Sherlock and John that it didn’t even occur to me to notice the lack of female characters, honestly. Everyone else is pretty much just a prop for those two.

        2. I was disappointed by the same thing, but I actually hated the Woman. She didn’t strike me as so different or devious or interesting, but she’s presented as something that Sherlock has never encountered before. IDK, she wasn’t…something enough to be Irene Adler to me.

          1. Yes on Ms. Hudson—except she cooks and cleans for the guys, even though she swears she’s not going to! And the female police detective–I can’t remember her name?–she’s first introduced as having slept with another, loser character. I don’t know. I’m hopeful that Sherlock will start playing a bit with sex/gender roles, like Dr. Who does.

            Not that I’m biased or anything.

    3. I actually think the mayor is the hottest. What’s his name? I half @$$ watch the show since I have no attention span.

      1. Lavon Hayes baby. And he’s hot as well. Plus he wears pastel better than any man on Earth and is the only person who is able to refer to himself in the third-person without annoying me (an amazing feat). I hope they fix him up with Annabeth next season, oh the delicious conflict that would cause.

        1. Oh, I like Lavon too, he’s funny and hot. George isn’t bad either, I just need to move to Bluebell.

        2. I also heart George. But Wade and Lavon are awesome, too. I’d take any of ’em.

    4. I love this. I was so happy w/last night’s ep. So much shirtless Wade!

      “Wade, I don’t think the baby goat cares about your abs”

    5. Am I the only person that thought she was talking about the Miami Heat player…? lol.

  6. I read about extrapetite’s (avoiding links for moderation) use of a spreadsheet to keep track of what she buys with notes – to track returns, her budget, and how much use she gets out of the things she buys. I’m thinking of starting that! Do any of you do something similar?

    1. I don’t now, but am similarly inspired by that post! I think it could really help me cut down on the “oh, that’s cute and I want it and it’s on sale” type buys that are by no means budget busters, but end up overstuffing my closet unnecessarily.

      1. I missed that post, but am tempted – if for only returns – nothing more frustrating that ordering something online, only to get it and realize that you’ve tried it before and no, it still doesn’t fit. (I hope I’m not the only one who does this!)

        But if you had the discipline, I could see it for tracking “wants” to – ie, waiting for sales, saving the approriate $$, etc.

        Question is for those of us without smartphones, the best way to manage such a list – google docs?

        1. see my post below. I just use excel. In the same spreadsheet I also have a weekly planner where I plan out my outfits for the whole week based on weather, work meetings etc. For me, it’s good to have all my recent shopping in the adjacent tab because it makes putting together outfits easier

        2. I manage my wants, and going-to-needs in a Google Docs. I note when something is starting to fall apart so I’m on the lookout for a good sale and replacement item. It’s also good for whn you get a wedding invite and will need a dress by x date.

          I also use Trello to maintain lists of this sort and all others. I create boards for my shopping lists, household lists, and fridge/pantry/grocery lists.

      2. I have something similar but not as detailed. It really does help curb impulse sales buys because you see how 1) they all add up 2) “it’s on sale!” isn’t a great justification, there are always tons of sales 3) it’s not a great deal when a lot of those items don’t get much wear.
        Also, having to enter the number spent, including alterations, makes you realize that $50, even though it’s for an orig. $150 item, is still $50 you didn’t need to spend… those repeat entries cumulatively make you think harder before hitting “submit order”

    2. I do that. I track all my shopping purchases on a spreadsheet and total it up every month. It’s helpful to see it all laid out. Often times I’ll buy something, put it in my tracker and realize that I am paying way more for a simple tshirt than I ever did or that I bought three blue pieces in the last two months already and don’t need another one. Also seeing my monthly spending on clothes has helped curb impulse purchases and my monthly average has gone down by $100. I don’t yet track how much use I am getting out of each piece but may start doing that too

      1. I have some shopping ap thingy on my yahoo email that saves all my online shopping in it’s own folder. It’s saved me many times.

    3. I do that (with Excel). One worksheet is my “Ultimate Wantlist” with all the prices, sizes, colors, etc.

      Click the next tab and it’ll show you the “Returns” worksheet, listing things I’ve returned and commentary (including sizing, color, and other info.) The next tab over shows you the spreadsheet that is my log of what I’ve worn every day and the plan for what I’ll wear in the next 2 weeks.

      There’s also summary sheet that ties to the budget.

    4. I do.
      I forgot to return two bras (urgh and it’s not like I can sell bras online or have friends that wear the same size) and started a spreadsheet the next day.
      I enter in the date that I bought it, the color/size/item #, the price, and the last date that it can returned. It helps me keep track of how much I spend on clothes (still too much), and I keep a list of items on my wish list so I can pull it up and compare prices when I shop.

  7. thanks again for last week’s discussion on The Skirt, which caused me to order one in coral. i’m wearing it today in protest of the dark rainy (but thankfully warm) weather.

    1. I am sure that I need The Skirt, but keep missing the discussions about it. Is this a Nordstrom or J.Crew skirt?

      Also I LOOOOVE Robert Rodriguez. This dress is great, but it looks a little too short for the office in my opinion.

      2. yes, nordstrom. link to follow. currently on sale for $39.90 in five colors, looks like there are plenty of sizes left. it runs large – i am generally a 6, sometimes a 4 at j.crew, 29″ waist/38″ hips, and i wear a 4 in this skirt. i have it in kelly green, cobalt blue, and now coral. LOVE.

        3. Is the skirt easy to alter? My waist is really tiny and even a zero petite is too large. I know… Problems

    2. Although…. can we talk about the J Crew No 2 Pencil Skirt? I love The Skirt, but the J Crew skirt is also pretty amazing, and is edging out The Skirt for me. I feel like the lines are better on my shape.

      1. You’re not alone, CW. The Skirt doesn’t like me, but the No. 2 from J.Crew is my BFF :).

      2. i’m a big fan of the j.crew pencil skirt too – it’s very well-constructed and always comes in great colors, but i always have to have the waist taken in or deal with the skirt riding up all day. the halogen skirt fits me much better off the rack.

      3. I tried The Skirt and it made me look extremely bottom-heavy (it was the winter version though, with thicker fabric, so I may give the summer version another shot). The J. Crew No. 2, on the other hand, looks awesome and makes me feel like a million bucks. I haven’t noticed a terrible wrinkling problem with the cotton ones, the way some people have — there are a few, for sure, but not enough to keep me from loving it!

        1. Meh – the summer version is a cotton serge that’s kind of stiff, so I don’t know if it would do any better. My favorite fabric for the No. 2 is the corduroy from last fall – nice stretch and drape.

      4. Anyone have a No 2 Pencil that doesn’t wrinkle if you look at it funny? I may have just been purchasing bad fabrics, but…. d*mn.

      5. I just bought 3 of the J Crew No 2 pencils this past weekend (just lost some weight, everything in my closet is in need of alterations), my first time with this skirt. They have such pretty ones out right now – I got the navy seersucker (which runs a little smaller than the others, and is awesome with their other colors that are out right now – kelly green, coral), the red/navy paisley and the brightish/indigoish blue color. Haven’t worn them yet, though, hopefully will not have the wrinkling problem (though I do with everything else I own, skirts, pants, high quality, low quality, wool, cotton, whatever, so why would tese be any different?)

    3. I’m wearing the Skirt today in black — I also have it in red in my current size and orange in my post-preg size. Really digging the black. Can’t beat it as a wardrobe staple.

  8. Ladies,
    A small update about the incident when a colleague verbally assaulted me.
    Well, as expected my manager was very cold about it.
    HR manager (expat) was very sincere and took the incident seriously.
    My bosses at headquarters got really involved so it feels good because then everyone got to understand that the matter is serious.
    The employee apologized about the “form” that he used but keeps thinking his motives were OK which is wrong. He wanted to do something against our procedures and I refused to let him go out of process and I stand by my position. Headquarters are also having my back on this one because we cannot afford to have a breach in compliance.
    For now, I am just working as though nothing happened. I have interviewed for another compliance job and will get an answer maybe in 10 days.
    Meanwhile; I’m off to my vacation in Pittsburgh in few hours.
    USA here I come (nordies is calling my name)

    1. I am glad to see you are receiving support. Kudos to you for not backing down. Is this dude a jerk to everyone or was he an extra jerk to you because you are female?

    2. Good for you Houda for sticking to your guns, and that’s fantastic that HQ and HR are backing you up :) One day when you are a senior manager, this will be a crazy story you can tell to the younger ladies you mentor! Good luck with the other job and enjoy USA shopping!

    3. Good for you for standing by your position and I’m relieved that HR and HQ are supportive. Keep us posted, and enjoy your vacation!

    4. I’m really glad that others at your company have your back- I was worried about this!

      Also: Pittsburgh! Heads up that this weekend is CMU’s graduation so nicer restaurants in the Oakland/Squirrel Hill area are going to be mobbed.

  9. Ladies I need some styling advice for my baby shower in a couple of weeks. I am going to wear a black, white and yellow geometric print dress with a v neck. I have 3 pairs of flats that fit; silver, red, and nude-for-me. Which would look best? What kind/color of jewelry should I wear?

    TIA!

    2. I wore red patent flats constantly when I was pregnant. I was trying to distract eyes from my giant a$$!

      Seriously though, the red will be cute, but any of them sound great.

      1. Thanks for all of the endorsements for red! It’s out of my comfort zone but I’ll do it in the Corporette spirit! The dress is Olian, but I got it at a consignment store. I highly recommend Olian for high quality and stylish maternity clothes.

  10. I love this dress. so much.

    I’m tall so I think the asymmetrical line would work on me.

  11. I like the dress, but I don’t think I could rock that hem. It looks like it would get in the way somehow, or flap around distractingly.

    Threadjack: Yesterday I bought the Blythe blouse in purple from J.Crew, which is silk (link to follow). Once I got it home, I noticed that it looked weirdly shiny. Almost metallic in a way, but also possibly kind of cheap. I got another silk blouse at the same time, which is not shiny at all. I have little experience with silk; is it possible the purple blouse is supposed to be shiny like that, or is the shininess just part of J.Crew’s general decline in quality? Thanks in advance for any advice!

    2. I sew with silk all the time — silk fabrics can be quite shiny depending on the weave (think of silk charmeuse for example, usually quite shiny!). So, I don’t think it’s necessarily to do with the quality of the silk. If the shine bothers you, you can try hand washing it instead of dry cleaning it — that will often dull the shine a bit over time.

    3. I am wearing the shirt you bought today. I think it is beautiful and like the shine. I have on black “skinny” suit pants with black pointed/bow flats. Everyone is complimenting my look, so I am sure it will be a hit on you too!

    1. I have wider feet, and have the Tory Burch peeptoe wedges in this leather but a higher wedge (think Carnell high wedge style), and I have found the leather to be really stiff (to the point where I almost refuse to wear them until I can take them to a cobbler and have them stretch it out).

      However, I just purchased the Amanda Demi Wedge (not on sale, unfortunately) and LOVE them. The leather is softer, so they’re super comfortable.

      1. Sorry – I was unclear – the Amanda Demi Wedge is now on sale, but wasn’t when I purchased them.

    3. You might also try the Cole Haan Air Lainey wedge — it’s really comfortable, and I have wideish feet.

    4. Thanks everyone! Their return policy isn’t great, so I think I’m going to hold off until I can try them on in person.

    5. i think they run average and have a very medium/comfortable width. i personally have ridiculously narrow feet so shoes that are comfortable for others fall off my feet and are too bulky.
      i have several pairs of tory flats, sandals, and pumps and consistently i wear 1 full size smaller than my normal shoe size. that’s mostly because the width is comfortable-average, which does my feet no favors.

      nonetheless, theyre super comfy, but be warned that if you accidentally end of with too-big torys, they are difficult to work with even with sole liners and heel cushions because they are designed to be very comfortable fit as is (i know this from my own experience and others).

  13. Urgh…dresses. I want so much to wear them to work but I never feel professional! If anyone else is an apple (think belly pooch and not much waist definition), size 8/10…can you link some dresses that you have successfully worn to work?

    I think that for me no-belt sheath dresses work best but those are somehow hard to find.

    Bonus points for shipping to Europe. :P

    1. Oh and then what do you wear over the dress? Why does this confuse me so much?

      1. I don’t know, but I have the same problem. Busty apple, usually a 6/8 on the bottom (IF things button, ha) and 8/10 on top. I love dresses but I never wear them. They either require extreme tailoring (because I buy to fit the bust and then have to remake the whole dress) or else I look pregnant in them.

        1. This is me as well. I haven’t worn dresses since becoming more apple-shaped (post pregnancy).

          Last year I purchased a nice dress for holiday parties and it belts higher on the waist, around my ribs, which gives a nice allusion of a waist. Now I’m on the hunt for not-quite-empire waisted dresses with an a line skirt to flow away from the tummy. I’m pretty sure this is the only dress shape that works for the busty apple.

          1. i feel like boden and j crew dresses often have this waistline (which looks terrible on my pear body) – do those work for you?

          2. I keep wandering over to the Boden website and add things to my cart but haven’t hit the buy button. The recommendations in this little thread are winning me over!

      2. Dresses are a frequent uniform for me. I tend to do wool or tweed or some other “serious” fabric sheaths, spare on the girly details. Sometimes I add a belt. I usually wear with a non-suiting blazer or a longer cardigan for more casual days (not quite bf, but not the jackie style). I have also worn them with a silk blouse underneath or a tissue turtleneck, with and without a blazer/cardigan. A lot of mine are from JCrew and Brooks Brothers. I’ve also had some luck with Elie Tahari (not Tahari or any other variation).

        1. AAAAAIIIIIIMMMMMMSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! (very high-pitched). I just got the chance to see your link. I soooooo approve! Excellent choice in every regard! I assume you got the navy?

          I LOVE the texture (which will wear well), the understated hardware, the strap, the shape, everything. I do think this is your magic bullet. It’s BEAUTIFUL! MJ was one of the other brands I was considering while on my own hunt.

          Super classy, yet not boring. Stylish, but will still look fab with your outfits 10-20 years from now, rather than like you’re trying too hard. I’m thrilled for you! It’s worth the wait, no?

          1. Ah, you just made my day!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. I do love it and agree that the leather should age well – it feels heavenly. And understated but not boring is exactly what I was going for. So glad you like! :)

    2. I’m the apple shape you describe, only a little larger than you and my bust is larger than my hips. I look for dresses with a high-ish, but not necessarily empire waist. I like ruching over the stomach area, but never, ever pleats or I look 7 months pregnant. I’ve had good luck with a faux-wrap sillouette, but many apples hate that look. I also look for dresses with sleeves so I don’t have to worry about a jacket or cardigan over them.

      I got an AT dress last winter similar to this one, and I think it works well on me. http://www.anntaylor.com/ann/product/AT-Petites/AT-Petite-Dresses/Petite-Ann-Taylor-Miracle-Dress/288905?colorExplode=false&skuId=11765844&catid=cata000028&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&defaultColor=1454

      I don’t think it’s available anymore, but I’ve gone through a couple of these dresses and always get tons on compliments. https://corporette.com/2009/10/23/bargain-fridays-tps-report-merona-ponte-tab-waist-dress/

    3. My comment is awaiting moderation due to links.

      Here’s the gist:
      I’m the apple shape you describe, only a little larger than you and my bust is larger than my hips. I look for dresses with a high-ish, but not necessarily empire waist. I like ruching over the stomach area, but never, ever pleats or I look 7 months pregnant. I’ve had good luck with a faux-wrap sillouette, but many apples hate that look. I also look for dresses with sleeves so I don’t have to worry about a jacket or cardigan over them.

    4. Somewhat similar shape and I have had good luck w/ AT Loft dresses, Boden, and random stretchy dresses. I wear a closed blazer over it so it hides my belly pouch. My AT dresses were from the outlet so I don’t know if they were wrongly sized but I was able to buy a 4! even though I normally wear a 8-10 in blazers (34DD). They have a lot of stretch so they are snug in the waist (above the pooch) but have plenty of room in the bust.

    5. I like Esprit Collection stuff for work (the other lines are admittedly unprofessional though, like edc). It’s cut for women who are an apple shape, because as a non-apple shape, I can only occasionally find stuff that fits correctly. Not sure where in Europe you are, but prices and quality are reasonable, and shipping obviously isn’t a problem.

      1. Oh, and if price isn’t an issue, Boss and Windsor both have really nice dresses as well.

    6. I have a dark blue dress from Theory that hangs very straight and is not body-skimming. Mine is old, but a quick peek at their web site shows some that fit the bill (Wandu, Zili, etc.). I then took a hot pink skinny belt (which I bought but can’t wear with pants… apple = no tucking in shirts) and wrapped it around the narrowest part of my torso, which for me is about mid-way between bust and belly button. Finished with a muted green boyfriend cardigan from J Crew and it came off really cute. I’m 5’2″ and about 125, fwiw. Neither thin nor heavy, but an almost straight figure (34/30/34, maybe?).

    7. I have the same problem and hardly wear dresses because lots of times they make me look 5 months pregnant (and I’m not that fat, it’s just the way I carry it). But I have the DVF Metador Two A-line dress and it is super flattering. Something about the little panel thing at the empire waist. Will post link in follow up.

    9. I’m apple shaped and never thought dresses would work for me, but I’ve been experimenting lately with some success. In general I look for substantial fabric with some stretch, and stay far, far away from empire waists, which make me look pregnant. I’ve had some luck with Boden wrap dresses (nothing this season though). And there’s a Ralph Lauren black patent stretch belt from Nordstrom’s (recommended by Kat ages ago, but still available online) that I wear with almost all of my dresses, just below my natural waist. It really works miracles! Here are a couple dresses that have worked for me recently (both with the miracle belt and a cardigan):

      http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi28664&mode=search&backurl=%2Fonline%2Fsearch%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fquestion%3Dsheath%2Bdress%26trail%3DSRCH%253Asheath%2Bdress%26pageNum%3D0%26addFacet%3D%26removeFacet%3D

      http://www.anntaylor.com/ann/catalog/productDetails.jsp?prodId=277370&colorExplode=false&skuId=10980699&catid=cata000012&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&defaultColor=1326&prodId=277370

    10. Okay, my comment is in moderation, so I’m trying again without the links…

      I’m apple shaped and never thought dresses would work for me, but I’ve been experimenting lately with some success. In general I look for substantial fabric with some stretch, and stay far, far away from empire waists, which make me look pregnant. I’ve had some luck with Boden wrap dresses (nothing this season though). And there’s a Ralph Lauren black patent stretch belt from Nordstrom’s (recommended here ages ago, but still available online) that I wear with almost all of my dresses, just below my natural waist. It really works miracles! A couple dresses that have worked for me recently (both with the miracle belt and a cardigan on top):
      – Talbot’s refined ponte knit boatneck sheath (not boatneck at all, in my opinion)
      – Ann Taylor amber striped knit dress
      I wear v-necked cardigans over dresses, such as the Talbot’s linen v-neck cardi.

    11. Calvin Klein sheaths seem to work for everyone. I stick a blazer or a long belted cardi over mine.

  14. What do you do when you love your spouse, but hate his career?  

    I am a Biglaw attorney married to a resident in a very demanding program.  His hours are extremely long (~100/wk) and inflexible.  He loves his job and is constantly working over and above even the brutal hours his program requires:  covering extra shifts to help out his fellow residents, staying late to work on extra cases, making presentations, and pursuing research.  All of these extra activities take up a significant chunk of the little free time and energy he has to spend with his family.  

    As a result, I must shoulder almost the entire burden of raising our two young children (both under 5) and managing the house (cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry, finances, errands, etc), in addition to being the primary breadwinner and trying to stay afloat in my own difficult career.  We have a cleaning lady and lots of childcare (the cost of which I fret about), our families help, and I do my best to limit my availability at work where possible.  But I am still sleep-deprived and exhausted all the time, and increasingly resentful about always being the one left holding the bag and playing second fiddle to his career.  I also feel sad because he misses out on so much of his children’s lives (although he somehow thinks that he sees them enough).

    I recently tried to bring this up with him, and was met with the typical (for him) response, “Well, what do you want me to do?”  And frankly, I don’t know, because I am torn.  I love him and his drive, ambition, and work ethic are an integral part of who he is.  I wish he would cut back on his extra activities, but don’t want him to be less than the stellar doctor he strives to be or resent me for holding him back.  At the same time, I’m nearing the end of my rope, and my own resentment is eating at me.  I feel like it’s an impossible situation and have no idea what to do, other than to grit my teeth and suffer through it until he finishes residency or I break.

    Any advice, support, or commiseration?

    1. I don’t have a lot of advice, as I’m in a similar boat. I detest my husband’s job, the ridiculous hours it demands of him–and how little he has to show for it in return. The worse is that it’s not what he wants to do with his life. It’s been a “it pays the bills at least” kind of job for a very long time. Our situation is a bit different from yours in that he hates his job too–but not as much as I hate it, he says. I’m probably too close to a situation like yours to offer much advice, but I will say, remember to take care of yourself. Providing for your family, taking care of the kids and house–that’s a lot. It’s okay to be “selfish” and schedule time for yourself now and then. Otherwise, you will break.

      At least his job has a finite ending. It’s a residency so it will be coming to an end, right? How far away is the ending? That’s going to be an opportunity to make a change.

    2. As a divorced mother, I feel for you. I don’t know what you mean by ‘break’, so I don’t know if you’re considering a separation. One thing to remember is that if you separate, nothing will be any different for you than it is right now. You’re still going to have to do everything you do now, and you’ll get even less from him than you currently are, time and effort wise.

      What I would do is ask yourself, If I were divorced and on my own, what would I need to do to make this work? work less hours? Hire more help? what? Whatever it is, do it now. I wouldn’t make any long term, irrevocable decisions about your marriage while you’re exhausted and angry, particularly when ending the marriage would do exactly nothing to change the aspects you’re upset about.

      I also think that we tend to be really unfair when we love something about a person (his drive and ambition, which you obviously knew about when you married him) but then we expect a fundamental change in who/how they are when we decide it would work better for us if they’re different. None of that is to say it’s ok that he never be home and not see the kids, but I would say some counseling might help, because you both need to come to an agreement about what’s to be done. Maybe he can agree not to take on any EXTRA shifts, but then you have to agree not to be angry with him about the shifts he is required to do, because you knew what you were doing when you married him and had two babies with him.

      Again, I’m not saying everything he’s doing is great and you’re all wrong. But we have to take responsibility for our own decisions and not blame people for being exactly what we already knew they were, and what we in fact LIKED about them before. And again, realize that you’ll get exactly ZERO more out of him if you’re separated, and in fact you’ll be doing everything you do now and more.

    3. I don’t have any advice, but I just wanted to say that is this sounds really, really rough, and I’m sorry. You worry about him resenting you, but if I were you I would resent the hell out of him for pursuing his own thing and leaving you to pick up the slack at home. Do you think things will improve once his residency is over?

    4. My husband is an untenured academic and he works a self-imposed 24 hour schedule which sounds exactly like your situation. On top of what he is required to do, he is constantly doing research and other service stuff for his university. I workED biglaw for about 3.5 years when we had 2 small children. I do and did EVERYTHING in the household – childcare, homecare, taking care of bills, home repairs, errands… My husband does exactly one thing – he takes out the garbage. We don’t use a cleaning person, have a nanny, and have no family nearby.

      Truth is, I was laid-off almost 2 years ago during the law firm layoff era, and I have no doubt that my inability to be 120% biglaw affected my ability to survive. I was working an 80% schedule when I was laid-off, but in biglaw land, 80% really just means you bill 1800 instead of 2200 hours a year. I didn’t. And I also left work at 6 sharp every day because I had to pick up my kids and feed them. I thought about looking for work after being laid off, but I just couldn’t do it (the juggle) anymore.

      To throw additional fooeys into the mix, my husband has very limited earning potential as an academic. Professors in the liberal arts top out at low 6 figures, and jobs that pay that well are hard to come by. Not to mention, there is no guarantee of getting tenure. Furthermore, my husband has an abrasive personality (towards authority) that makes it unlikely that he will get tenure.

      We fight all the time. My husband won’t change. His work is that important to him.

      I basically have two choice: I can either (1) have an intact family but bear the entire burden of caring for my family with financial instability thrown in or (2) be a single mother.

      Clearly, I’m still in category (1), though I re-evaluate daily. I know there are rettes who believe that no woman should stay married when the partnership is as unequal as what I’m describing. But on the other hand, there are also frequent postings about the fear of ending up without a family because of not meeting the right man. I guess when I was making these decisions, I decided that having a family was that much more important to me than being happy. Right now, I think family >> me.

      I have no answer for you. I just wanted to commiserate.

      1. I understand more than I can explain here. And I’m sorry. We should form a support group for wives of academics. My DH isn’t untenured, but he’s even worse — he’s still in grad school. And his issues (perfectionism, especially) mean that he works like a dog with virtually nothing to show for it, and no sign of when he’ll finish the diss. It is purgatory. I have decided that it is like he has a disability. I can’t control it; all I can control is myself and my own choices.

      2. No offense, but I wonder if you’re succumbing to the sunk cost fallacy here.

        You’re a single mother anyways, in all but name. If you divorce him, you may still never meet the right man, but his total lack of support makes him sound quite like Mr. Wrong anyways.

      3. Another wife of a workaholic academic here. My husband cannot seem to turn down a single, solitary invitation to speak, serve on a committee or advisory board, help with a grant proposal, take on another graduate student, spend a couple months as a visiting prof overseas . . . you name it. Like the OP, I hesitate to rein him in, because I’d hate to see him forgo these things that he’s so excited about. But sometimes I wonder why he doesn’t have more of that same concern for me and my happiness. No, I’m not invited to speak in Brussels, but I do have a job in which I’d like to be successful, and I’m just plain tired of taking a back seat to all of his other opportunities.

    5. Could you frame the discussion in terms of his work responsibilities and family responsibilities? For many single people work is a responsibility and non-work is fun time. Especially with a young family, this is no longer the case. It sounds like he hasn’t switched gears into thinking this way.

    6. Two questions that I think will shape the advice…
      1) What do you want to do with your life? Do you want to be a partner at your firm? Go into public interest law? Be a stay at home mom? What’s your dream job?
      2) What will he do once he finishes residency? Are you looking at a geographical transition for a fellowship and then another one for a permanent job?

      If his response is, “What do you want me to do?”, then I think you might want to give him a real answer. It might be: I want you to spend one full day each week with the kids. I want you to stop taking on extra shifts. I want you to be responsible for the grocery shopping. I want you to take me out for dinner once a month.

      You sound so tired and I can’t imagine how you’re keeping all of this together. When it’s like this, all I ever want is for it to get better — I don’t want to think about how it’s going to get better because it seems insurmountable. But it won’t just resolve on its own. You have to figure out what you want and then take steps to make it happen. Sometimes figuring out what you want is the hardest thing of all.

      1. new york associate raises some good points. I am a non-big law attorney married to a medical resident. No kids yet. I sympathize, but I also think you knew (or should have known) what you were getting into when you married an ambitious doctor and had kids during the residency years. It’s not fair to put it on him now, unless he misled you in some way about how involved he would be with the kids.

        This may not be what you want to hear, but something has to give: your career, his career, or time with the kids. There are just not enough hours in the day for all three of those things to be going full steam ahead at once. You need to sit down with DH and figure out how its going to be because the current balance (or lack thereof) is not working for you. New york associate’s post above pointed out the specific questions you need to ask.

    7. OP here. Thanks for the responses so far. He finishes residency in a few years, so there is an ending, but it feels very long away. I hope things will improve once he becomes an attending, but honestly have no idea if they will.

      And by “break,” I meant “have a nervous breakdown,” not separation. I can accept the long mandatory shifts; the anger and resentment comes from him making sacrifices over and above what his insane program requires, at the expense of our family. We married young, so I knew that he was driven and ambitious (and love him for it), but those qualities didn’t fully come to bear until he entered residency. I have thought about therapy for myself, if only to have someplace to vent (other than this awesome anonymous forum).

      1. I think therapy is a great idea. You need to have a place to cry/vent/be angry.

        One other thought: when you guys got married, you knew he was driven and ambitious, but he’s not giving any of that drive and ambition to your family. He’s giving it all to his career. Maybe one way to approach this is to tell him that he is failing at being a husband and a dad, and that if he doesn’t apply some of that drive and ambition to your family life, you are going to have a nervous breakdown.

        In the meantime, can you go part-time? Quit your job and live on his residency salary and credit cards until he becomes an attending? Hire a housekeeper who would be in charge of meals, cleaning, etc.? Ask your parents (or his) to move in and help you keep house? Get an au pair? I just feel so much empathy for you.

        1. OP again. This is all very helpful. To answer your questions above:

          1) I have no plans to make partner (which is nearly impossible at my firm anyway), but hope to work for a nonprofit or in the public sector one day, in a job far less demanding than Biglaw.

          2) We are looking at a geographical transition for fellowship, and then for a permanent position, but currently have no idea where either will be.

          I have thought about going part-time, but all the Biglaw women I know who have done so have ended up working full time for part time pay and/or gotten laid off. (Depressing, yes.) Living on his salary is not really an option unless we want to live on food stamps. We hire so much help already that I feel guilty about hiring even more, but perhaps I simply need to get over myself and do it.

          1. Don’t focus on the guilt; it’s about preservation. You and your husband both have very stressful jobs that require very long hours and are mentally (and sometimes physically) demanding. If you’re stressed and resentful you are potentially hurting your marriage and your kids. So yes it feels ridiculous to hire people to do stuff you “should” be doing, but let’s face it, you’re kind of a single parent. If hiring people helps you be present at home, do it! Especially since you can tell yourself it won’t be this way forever. Once he finished residency/fellowships and has a permanent job, you can take a less demanding one, the kids will be in school longer, etc. and you can reevaluate your level of help. But right now, you don’t want to hit the end of your rope so do whatever it takes to make things easier.

          2. I’ll second the “don’t feel guilty.” I grew up in a household with two parents who worked crazy hours. My dad was a minister and a work-a-holic, and he worked 60-80 hours a week my entire life, despite the fact that he made very little money and did not get rewarded. My mom decided to go to medical school when she was 28 (actually because she was told she couldn’t have children – ha!) and had me toward the end of her 3rd year of medical school. I was a toddler and in preschool while she was a resident, and she also did moonlighting for extra money as a resident. She even spent a year of her fellowship living about 3 hours away and coming home on weekends. Except for that year away, despite the fact that my mom was the breadwinner, she had 95% of the responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and childcare for most of my life. (If you ask my mom a question about pop culture, she knows just about everything for any decade except the 80’s. She calls the 80’s “the lost decade” because she had so little spare time.)

            My mom tells me she stayed sane by outsourcing as much as possible while I was growing up. We had a house-cleaner. My dad sent his shirts out for pressing every week instead of ironing them himself. I had quite an array of nannies, daycares, after-school cares, summer camps, extracurricular activities, carpools, and babysitters. We went out to eat probably 3 nights a week, plus twice on Sundays with people from the churches my dad worked at.

            Honestly, I didn’t notice how much my parents worked when I was a kid (except for when my mom was studying for boards and her year away for fellowship, and even then, I wasn’t permanently scarred). I don’t remember too many details from my preschool days, but my parents always made our time together “count” by being fully present and there for me. And they were only able to do that by outsourcing whatever they could.

          3. 1) It’s actually great news that you have no plans to make partner. That means you can be fierce about drawing boundaries at work. You don’t need to make partner; you just need to keep your job long enough to get to the next step.
            2) The geographical transition is also helpful. You know that you’re not at your firm for the long haul and that you’ll have to start afresh in a few years. This gives you freedom to draw those boundaries at work.

            I’m a part time BigLaw Associate. It works for me and I would be happy to talk turkey with you if you want.

            With hiring help, maybe what you need is not to hire more help but to hire more strategic help. I imagine that you have a cleaning lady and a nanny, but what if you just had one person who did all of those things, and was the housekeeper? (I’m imagining Alice from the Brady Bunch.) You might pay more, but I think you’d get more actual respite than you do now.

      2. I strongly endorse therapy for you. And I think Sadie’s framing of your situation is actually really helpful. As much as I think he’s in the wrong on many levels, see what happens if you try to accept that your husband won’t change, but you can change your reactions and behavior. Is everything you’re doing at home absolutely necessary or can you cut some out? And if he complains, are you prepared to say “I’ve decided not to do this anymore. If you want X done, you will have to do it. ” Right now, by taking care of all the responsibilities at home, you are enabling him to spend more time at work.

        1. S, I agree with you. The OP is enabling– if he’s really so overbooked (partially his own fault, because he’s volunteering and signing up for more than he’s required to do), he won’t notice that you’ve done all this stuff.

          It’ll all blend into the background, and he’ll get a vague signal of ‘everything on the home front is under control,” but not get how hard you’ve had to work to keep it together.

          A bigger problem, as others have cottoned on to, is that he views his career as the foreground, and you and family and home-life have fallen very far into the background.

          OP– when the two of you decided to have kids, did you not talk about the sheer amount of hours it takes? I mean, seriously, make a list of all the hours of the day, fill in the blocks when you’re at work, and then figure out the time you want to spend with the kids, and the the time needed to keep the household running….I’m thinking if you guys did this exercise honestly, it would have revealed the situation you’re now in.

          My guy told me (while we were dating) that he always vaguely thought he’d want 3 kids and I had to hit him with a clue-by-four, because he was talking from a position of dreamy male entitlement. I told him to do the numbers and he realized, the hours don’t work.

      3. Ok then, that is good! (It probably doesn’t feel good, but it is). I know so many women who are basically exhausted, end up getting separated because they ‘can’t take it anymore’ and only once it’s too late realize that they are still ‘taking’ everything they were exhausted from before, only now his attitude is ‘well, it’s not my problem how you feel, we’re divorced’. Definitely not always the solution people think it is. However little help my ex husband was, I still had way more work once we split than before (we separated for other reasons so I don’t regret it).

        I think that it’s fair to ask that he not take extra shifts above what the program actually requires. I also like NY associate’s ideas of figuring out what you actually want (both for yourself and your own future, and from him). It’s really hard for people to ‘fix’ things if we can’t really tell them what they could do (and I mean, can actually DO) that would fix it.

        I think therapy for you is a great idea, #1 for somewhere to vent, #2 for some coping mechanisms, and #3 so that you can get some ideas how to broach it with him AND not be *so* upset when you do that he just hears “WIFE MAD…WIFE MAD” and doesn’t hear what you need from him. I also think it’s helpful to make sure he understands that you don’t want him to be someone else, you just want him to focus some of his drive, ambition and attention on your family. You don’t want him to be a different person, you and the kids just want a share of what work is getting.

      4. Have you talked to him about it yet? I would try to sit down and have a calm talk about it. Otherwise, if you’re anything like me, the resentment will come out via passive aggressive comments and overreactions to other things. For me, it’s always better to air out the issue instead of letting it fester.

        Another thing- Do you have any family vacations scheduled? It may be helpful to take a week off together to go away for some family time with the kids. Even having that to look forward to might help you get through.

        1. Totally endorse the vacation idea. Find a week and go to an all-inclusive, far, far away from work. I think vacations are pretty essential for marriage maintenance.

    8. My hubby is a workaholic in a job where he rarely gets rewarded for it. Its just who he is. Wherever he has worked his 40 hrs ALWAYS turns into 60. He doesn’t even know what time he is supposed to start because he is always there at 7-7:30! I used to feel bad about it (for him working long hours and us spending less time together), but then I realized if I loved and wanted to be with him I needed to accept it and I have. Would it be nice if he helped around the house more, sure. Does it matter that the floors aren’t swept every day, not really (to me anyway). I would much rather have this situation than my previous relationship where the guy couldn’t hold down a job for more than 3 months and I always wondered how the bills were going to be paid.

      You should talk to him and tell him you feel overwhelmed and give him a few specific things you need/want him to do to help you out. But, I wouldn’t expect him to ever be a 9-5 guy (not that doctors are anyway). I also think that even if you feel he is missing out on the kids, if he doesn’t feel that way you aren’t going to change his mind about it. Enjoy the time you spend with the kids and let the kids have the relationship with their dad that works for them, not the relationship you envision.

      Good luck! I hope you find a way to feel less stressed and resentful.

    9. It seems like he gave you an opening to propose a solution when he asked what you want him to do, and you passed up the opportunity. I think you should be honest: say that his job is important, but his family is also his responsibility. Say that you absolutely respect his career and the required hours he must put in, but he cannot continue going above and beyond at the expense of his family. Say that your children need him and you need him too, and that you miss him. Tell him that you are on the verge of an emotional and mental breakdown, and you need him to support you just like you’ve been supporting him.

      If it doesn’t work, then say all of the above in front of a couples counselor.

    10. Commiseration, from an older perspective. My husband has both a legal career and a military reserves career, which didn’t seem so bad when we were dating, but that changed after 9/11. Since then, he’s been mobilized twice, deployed overseas, and when he’s stateside, his military duties have often been a second full-time job on top of his demanding legal career. Obviously, everything else falls to me, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I did end up making accommodations to get by, including working part-time for awhile, telecommuting, and eventually moving near my parents for more support, as my job is demanding and requires travel. But yes, the cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, finance, car maintenance, home maintenance, child care arrangements, school schedules, and just about everything else falls to me. There have been times when I’ve complained, but he has nothing he can cut out of his life to free up time. I’m mostly at peace with it now, except for my concerns about his health, because I know his stress level is not conducive with a long life. There was a time when I followed the Flylady emails (flylady.net), and I think her anti-martyr messages stuck with me over the years. No whining, no pity party. I want to live in a nice environment, so I put a good book or podcast on my iPod and get working on whatever needs to be done. Changing my attitude helped a lot, because I can’t change my husband’s situation and I don’t want to live in negativity. You have to find a way to feel less like you are suffering and gritting your teeth. I’ve made it for 10 years, and have a few more to go until he retires from the military and eliminates one job from our lives. You can do it — hang in there!

      1. Space Mountain – you are awesome! I feel so badly for people who sort of got a “bait and switch” on the whole reserves thing. I’m going to keep my opinions limited to avoid starting a political debate. I will say, that while Reservists know at any point they can be mobilized, it is usually domestic, or abroad for truly truly exigent circumstances, and not the multiple tours Guard Reservists are now doing in Iraq. Kudos to both of you for plugging along.

    11. One of the things that my husband did that I appreciated so much when my daughter was little was that he dealt with her first thing in the mornings. He got up with her and fed her breakfast. I either got to sleep later or shower without worrying about her.

      I know that a regular daily schedule like that may be difficult because of your husband’s shift work. However, I’d certainly see if he couldn’t carve out some regular time for the kids. This does two things:
      1. It gives you some time you can count on.
      2. It should be good for his relationship with the kids.

      Weekly or monthly tradition/event ideas:
      * “date” afternoon or night with each kid once a month
      * game night each week
      * bedtime stories
      * pillow fight
      * cooking together

      Other things that helped a lot were memberships to the local science museum and zoo. Because we paid a (reasonable) yearly membership fee, admission was free. So, it was easy to let yourself stay for as short or long a time as seemed appropriate that day. We also bought a yearly membership to the children’s theater (where they expected a noisy, restless audience) and went to every show. These let me get out among people, but they weren’t budget busters.

      I also had a “date” with friends where we put the kids in strollers and walked. Good social activity and good fitness activity.

      And, to be honest, I let the house go. To me the important things were time with my family, getting some “me” time (usually reading), and work. Everything else slipped, sometimes a lot. I decided perfectionism wasn’t worth it.

    12. I’m right there with you. Husband travels a LOT for work for 5 days to 5 weeks at a time. We have a 2.5 year old and I’m almost 7 months pregnant. He owns his own business and like you, I appreciate his drive to be successful, but sometimes I wish he would just step back a little bit.

      The thing you bring up that resonates the most with me is the resentment. I don’t want to resent him, but at times, I do. I especially resent him when he does something for himself, like go for a Sunday morning bike ride or meet a friend for a beer. These things happen so infrequently and I know he deserves them since he’s working 18 hours a day when he’s on the road (and let’s be honest, I know it sucks so bad for him to be living on the road when he knows his awesome wife and super cute kid are at home in his nice house with his nice neighbors).

      Part of me feels that I never get a break for “me” without hiring a babysitter (already have a nanny for the 50+ hours a week I work) and other than about 4 hours a week for workouts, I feel bad hiring a sitter so I can go get a pedicure or do something just for me.

      Like you, I don’t know what I want him to do. I don’t want him to quit, and he makes good money that he couldn’t make without traveling right now. Obviously I could quit, but I don’t want to do that, either.

      New York Associate makes several good points – I’m going to think about what concrete specific things I can tell him I need to make this a little easier on me. But I still struggle with the resentment and how to just “get over it.”

      I have been in therapy on and off over the past few years, but haven’t gone in a while because it’s just another hour that I am not working, nor home with my kid, and I have to pay someone else to be home with her while I’m in therapy. Sometimes, drawing on the driveway with sidewalk chalk next to a 2-year-old is more effective than therapy, but sometimes not! If you can find a therapist who can see you over lunch, I would recommend it, but for me personally, it wasn’t worth it in the evenings.

      1. Why do you feel bad doing something just for you? I bet your husband doesn’t feel bad doing something for himself, and the thing is *neither* of you should.

        Why do so many women adopt this martyrdom position? I’m guessing the fathers don’t feel the need to martyr themselves in order to prove to (someone?) themselves (?) that they’re good fathers.

        I ask not to be snarky, but because I’m curious. Is it something in our society? I suspect so, with all the parenting-one-upsmanship pieces in the press. I also think that for most people, who are parents by having biological children, which for women, is an altruistic/martyrlike thing to do (you risk your own life to give life to someone else)…it’s really easy to continue to do so in other aspects of your life. And while children do benefit from their parents prioritizing them, rather than treating them as afterthoughts, it strikes me as incredibly hard for people to find a balance….because life is hard.

        1. Also, and I’m mentioning this for several of the people who have posted here because I haven’t seen it yet. DATE NIGHT!!! You absolutely have to take some time for yourself, absolutely and you should not feel guilty. But also, maybe more importantly in many cases, you have to take some time to feel good about your partner and your relationship. I think that’s the #1 thing that will help you deal with the resentment. Heck, it can be getting a sitter for a couple hours and going to a movie or a dinner, etc…especially if you go late, the kids will be asleep(or cranky) anyway, so you won’t feel as much like you’re missing out on vital family bonding time.

          One of the saddest things I ever heard was my mom saying, when I was around 18, that she was going on on her first date with my dad in over 10 years. Now, we were broke growing up, they could not have afforded a sitter if we even could have gotten one out to our very isolated, rural home. But 10 years without ever being alone with your husband!?!? (And awake)

    13. In response to his question of what do you want me to do, tell him that you cannot raise the children by yourself and that he needs to cut back on some of the extra shifts that he has been taking on. His extra activities may help his career down the road but at what cost to your family?

    14. I have mixed feelings on everybody’s opinion. On the one hand, there is something to be said for having control over our own feelings and attitudes. It is true that other people cannot be changed unless they want change, so in a way it’s sound to focus on yourself, your own feelings, and your own situation since that is what you personally have 100% control over. I like the suggestions of trying to figure out specifically what it is that you want so you can know how to address those wants with solutons. I also like the idea of starting small, asking for help with concrete, but not huge things, at first (like the examples that were suggesting one date night a month, cooking a meal once a week, etc.).

      But at the same time, I disagree with the vibe that this should all be on you because you married him/you knew going in/it’s your own attitude problem. To me, that doesn’t fly. You guys got married together and had a family together, so that incurs commitments and support from both parties, not just one person. I mean, if your husband truly didn’t want to spend any time or effort on his family, why did he marry you and worse, why did he have kids? At some point, both parties need to take ownership of their responsibilities and contribute. It’s sort of like the ‘he’s not just that into’ mantra- I believe that if people want to prioritize something (whatever that is), they will, and I guess a big part of me finds it somewhat unacceptable that your husband has shown SO much deference to his career and pretty much none to his family. Other comments have pointed out that ambition comes in a variety of forms, and I agree with that- there is no reason your husband can’t throw some of the passion/effort/ambition towards family care because he has a stake in that responsibility now.

      I think it’s important to really think about what you want to change going forward. When you have a good idea of that, I think you absolutely must talk to your husband in a calm and non-accusatory manner. I think pointing out concrete things that are happening and the ways they are making you feel can be productive. For example, “Last week when you took an additional shift on a Friday without calling to let me know, I felt overwhelmed because I was suddenly unprepared for taking care of the errands that I had planned. Because I had expected you home around 7 PM, I structured my day around this time and saved XYZ tasks to complete once you were home and could take care of ABC tasks. When I realized I had to take care of both of those things, I missed doing XYZ tasks, and now I feel further behind and overwhelmed that the weekend will be even busier. Do you think we might be able to agree that you could call me at least an hour before you are scheduled to come home to let me know if the plan is still the same? That would really make me feel more in control of the evening tasks I will have to take care of and better prioritize.”

      Something like this talks about the *situation* and how the actions within the situation made you feel. It’s not trying to place blame- it’s just trying to point out how and why something made you feel the way it did. Then, it helps to propose a solution to address the specific problem, and I think in this case, it will help to start with small, specific things your husband can do to meet your desires and improve things a little at a time.

      2. Also thought of a couple other points.

        First is- when you tell your husband things he can do and he (hopefully) does them, PRAISE HIM. I know it might sound dumb if not demeaning, but honestly I feel that men are less good with subtle messages and need to be hit over the head with the obvious. So, when he calls you every day for a week an hour before he’s meant to come home and updates you like you asked, make sure you tell him thank you profusely, tell him how much you appreciate it, tell him how much more at ease it’s making you feel. It’s super positive reinforcement. Again it’s not to demean men or anything, but I think they communicate better the more straightforward you are, so showering praise on your husband for him doing what you ask should make him feel good and make him feel like he wants to do more. I also feel like when I do this with my husband, it gets him thinking about the situation and makes him reflective on how he might behave in the future (example, when he brings me flowers unexpectedly, I make a huge/positive deal about it and tell him how great it is and how much I love them, etc. etc. and usually that gets him to say something like, “Well… gosh, you’re really happy huh? I’ll really try to think about bringing flowers home more often” without me even having to prompt).

        Also, re people’s comments about something having to give… it is true that eventually something has to give. However, why must it be you? Sometimes when I feel a bit neglected by my husband and talk to him about it, and he tells me something about work, I like to try to remind him that I also work and prioritize my busy schedule to accomodate him. Yes, sometimes our demands are different, as are our stresses, but I still managed to prioritize him throughout all my late nights/advanced degrees/overseas trips/whatever, so he can give me the curtesy to do the same for me. We have always operated on this principle and I think it’s one of the main reasons we’ve been together so long despite being physically apart. We’ve always prioritized each other (sure, sometimes one of us will do so a little more at a given time due to situation), but the overall point is that we do well to BOTH cut back/rearrange things and remind each other when it’s getting out of hand. That way, we’re each giving 10 points of effort to get a 20 point improvement vs. one person always having to give all 20 points and the other person having to do nothing.

        1. I think Kontraktor’s advice is spot on.

          But what I’m worried about most is that maybe you and your husband haven’t sat down and had a calm discussion about this, with clear expectations. He needs to know that you’re close to being overwhelmed. He needs to know exactly everything that you do, so that he can understand how crazy it is for you.

          Good luck, and lots of hugs.

    15. Definitely therapy for you – it will help you figure out what you need most.

      Also (not in mental health disclaimer here) read Scattered by Dr. Gabor Mate. It’s about AD(H)D and a lot of things you mention about his workaholism pop up in the book – something worth looking into.

      1. My husband is also a workaholic and on top of that is finishing his PhD. I agree with the poster above who said to be specific: “you must be here Saturday morning and help me with XYZ “, etc etc) This was advice I got from a coworker who was in a similar situation to yours, and it worked really well for her (and has for me too). lets face it, you can’t really change a workaholic spouse. But most people who are workaholics appreciate habit and schedule and if you get the schedule down now it will stick throughout your lives together. I also think you need to schedule some you time as well. No, it’s not exciting and spontaneous but it will help. Just be realistic and outsource whatever you can afford.

        1. 1) I agree with all the posters who recommended “be specific.” Tell him exactly what you need him to be in charge of, and then let him do it his way. For example, can he do the grocery shopping, like with an online service, and have it delivered? can he be responsible for x, y, z bills? His job to get the kids dressed? I also agree that you should feel comfortable asking him not to take extra shifts. If he’s taking a shift to help a colleague, great, but then he should trade shifts, for example.
          2) have you told him exactly what’s in the first post? It’s really hard to have the convo when you’re both exhausted, but what you’ve written clearly points to your frustrations and how you’re seeing things. See if you can find time to tell him, or let him read it. Then give him time to reach and listen to what he has to say.

      2. Thanks for the book rec. I have ADHD and am a workaholic, partly to make up for the time I’m not doing my work at work.

    16. Sorry to be late to this game (I was up all night operating and am just getting my head above water) but I have a lot of sympathy for you.

      I had a chid in my 4th year of residency, and spent the last 18 months juggling motherhood and a demanding residency where we usually worked more than 80 hours a week. I did not volunteer for anything more than I had to do, but there are so many extras that are not really extra, that I can remember getting up at 4 AM to nurse and finish a case conference presentation, or some other ridiculous balance.

      So much is out of his control in residency, that in some ways, I would just figure out what you can do to survive it. I know that it was extremely challenging for my husband to be primary parent to our son and be a full time cardiologist (similar to big Law in expectations, but since he was an attending he had more control over his hours).

      What I think you need to focus on (you as a couple, and he needs to fully participate in this conversation) is: what are his plans and goals for after residency. My experience is that the people who overachieve in residency don’t always slow down when they make it to attending hood. And it’s gonna be really really hard on you if you tell yourself “it’s just residency, we’ll get through” and his behavior patterns continue well beyond it. Life is much (MUCH!) better and more in control as an attending, but only if you chose to have it that way. If he continues to prioritize his career over the family completely, then that’s real trouble. My advice would be to start this discussion now, so that he can hear how much it matters to you.

      I never overachieved after my son was born (I just dealt with crushing guilt at being a subpar mother and subpar surgery resident). I can remember the look on my husband’s face when he realized that immediately after my six weeks of maternity leave, I was going to be starting as night trauma chief six nights a week from 6P to 7 or 8 A, and that he was going to be primary parent for that whole time. I think he was physically ill. But I also think he knew that the really difficult part was transient, and that I was committed to a different lifestyle and work-life balance than we had.

      I’m so sorry. As someone on the other side of this equation, I really feel for you.

      1. I read this thread quickly, so apologies if I missed something. Just to weigh in, I had your life back when my children were young, although my husband was an all encompassing attorney rather than doctor (the doctor part is worse, I think!). I was resentful for about 10 years of our marriage, and assumed if he wanted it to be different, it would be. Like EC MD, I think he felt like subpar dad and subpar attorney. My constant annoyance over his sub par household/parenting activities probably did not help. Anyway, just as our kids hit their teens (yikes, college approaching!) he quit his BigLaw job and went in-house for a 50% salary reduction. Then, I was really miserable, since all I wanted was to be able not not worry about paying for college for our kids. I also realized that I had wasted so much time being miserable and focusing on what he was doing/not doing, rather than focusing on things that I could control. I see alot of myself in you, and I would just caution you that you don’t want to be me and look back and regret 10 years. As other posters have alluded, you need to find what makes YOU happy without necessarily trying to determine/control what he does. I wish I had thought of my husband’s absence as unavoidable…e.g. what if he was like Kontractor’s husband and deployed? I would have muddled through it without so much resentment towards him. If you love BigLaw and want to work 10 hours a day, go ahead and do it! Don’t worry about saving money-spend it and buy yourself some help or other forms of happiness. Your husband will be making enough soon to allow you to save for plenty of rainy days. If you want to go part time, I would DO IT. You are going to leave within a few years anyway when he gets a job somewhere else. He loves his job and is devoted to it more than you would like-I get that is not the best scenario, but I would try to find a way to live with that reality, and be happy, rather than fighting that reality and being miserable. That’s the advice I would give myself if I could do it all over again.

    17. Similar position, although I love my husband’s job, and his is obnoxiously happy, but it still leaves me being the primary income earner and primary care giver. I don’t mind the schedule so much as the accompanying lack of income at this stage and the need to be constantly accessible. Truth is, his schedule isn’t likely to get tremendously better, but his income will, and when it does, it will permit me to pull back on my workload.

      Question you need to think about – does “what do you want me to do” equal long term, or while he is in his residency? If he means, what do you want me to do while I am in this competitive, intense period of my career that last for X period of time, then I think you grin, bear it, and come vent to us. If it means this is how I plan to live my career, you have some different considerations….

      Does any of your child care allow for “me time”? If not, build it in. Can you outsource the cleaning and the cooking (look at your food budget and compare with those companies to make meals for you – you could retrieve grocery and cooking time in one fell swoop). Outsource the laundry as well. Find a place you can drop it off on the way to work and pick it up clean, dry and folded on the way home. Or can your child care do the kids laundry as a part of their duties? I was having serious resentment issues, and making the me time a part of the schedule was key.

      Anyhoo, just empathizing and trying to come up with some ideas to make it easier… good luck.

      I also think you should give him concrete “wants.” It could be dinner with the family three nights per week, one evening with you, not picking up extra shifts without checking in with you etc…

  15. Bunkster – thoughts on GG? I heard the finale was better than the recent episodes but I can’t bring myself to watch after the trainwreck the writers created.

    Also, how’s the new job? Hugs to you for getting away from that horrid boss!!! <3

    1. Not Bunkster (obvi), but I was a little…underwhelmed. I don’t know why exactly, but I was just disappointed. I’m glad Ivy will be returning though, for some reason, I like her.

      Hopefully, Scandal’s finale will make up for this. :-)

    2. I have been watching GG half @$$, the way I watch all shows now. What’s up with Serena? Why does she suddenly seem to be a witch?

  16. Anyone interested in a shopping challenge? My brown pumps completely bit the dust , and at the moment I have very, very little money to replace them.

    I need something fairly formal to wear with skirt suits. I’m a size 10 or 10.5. Since I have big feet, I feel like shoes with extremely long, pointed toes make me look like a clownish witch. I’d like to keep the heel height to 3″ or under.

    I’m open to doing nude-for-me instead of brown since I think they would work just as well with my wardrobe. (I usually wear foundations with “neutral” in their name about one or two shades darker than the lightest. More olive than pink coloring.) TIA, ladies!

      3. OH NO. I missed the heel height requirement. That messes all my suggestions up. Darn.

    5. Thanks so much everyone! Those Envy Bazza Pumps are especially appealing to me even though they are a smidge higher than what I usually wear. I think they’d work in tan or brown and I certainly can’t complain about the price!

      1. That was what I liked about them too…I know nothing about brand quality, but at that price, I guess who cares, right?

    6. Maybe check out the Vince Camuto “Desti” pump on the Nordstr*m website. It’s an almond toe classic pump with about a 2.5″ heel (including slight platform). They’re under $100. I’ve had them on my Nord. wish list for months! No brown, but there is a “nude” if that particular shade works for your coloring.

    1. Oops. This was a reply to virtual shopping. I am clearly desperate to avoid writing evaluations this morning.

  18. Advice? I think I’m going to reveal my pregnancy this week at work. I’m 16 1/2 weeks. Advice on how to handle? What to say? I work with mostly one partner (male, 1 young child), so he’s the most important.

        1. Seconded to cfm. As to OP – I’d present your pregnancy along with a concrete transition plan and how long you expect to be out/when.

        2. Ha! Come on…its so absurd I assumed you’d no I was joking. This is why we need sarcasm font!

          Just to be clear, don’t say that at work EVER. (PSA done).

          2. Perhaps Comic Sans could be appropriated as sarcasm font, since it’s so ill suited to anything else.

      2. Eh, I find that hilarious but probably wouldn’t actually say it at work. I’m never good at snappy comments. But I would seriously ROTFL (really!) if someone else said this and could pull it off. Maybe in a future life I’ll learn to pull off these kinds of comments someplace other than my interior monologue!

    2. “Hey, do you have a second? I wanted to let you know some good news: I’m having a baby in November!”

      Pause for them to congratulate you.

      “Thanks, we’re really excited; I feel great and we’re looking forward to November.”

      Pause to read the tone. Some partners will say: Well, that’s wonderful, get out of my office. Others will say: Wow, what are we going to do without you while you’re on leave? Others will say: How are you feeling? Basically, at this point, you just have to read the tea leaves. Finally, the end of the conversation:

      “When I get closer to my due date, let’s be sure to talk about how we’re going to staff my cases while I’m out on leave. I’ll keep excellent notes so it will be easy for someone to pick up my work during my absence and then to pass the files back to me when I come back.”

      Basically, I think the key is to go in with a “take no prisoners” attitude. This is wonderful news, you’re a professional, and you’ll handle the absence with aplomb. I remember feeling like the partners would be mad at me and in retrospect, I’d like to just kick myself for that feeling. Own it.

      1. This is really good advice. The partner I worked with was most interested in knowing when I would going out, how long I would be gone, and that I was going to come back to work. Giving him those answers made the conversation easier. Congrats!

  19. Does anyone have any recs for interior designers in NoVa? We just bought a place in Clifton and are expecting to spend $100k on furniture, paint, etc. We’re going for a very victorian look. Would appreciate any recs and pricing info (never hired an interior designer before). Thanks!

    2. No recommendations, but congratulations!! Clifton is beautiful. I rode horses out that way quite a bit growing up.

  20. I will be leaving my current job for a job in my significant others city. Another lawyer asked me if this would be my first time living common law with him or if we’d done it before.

    I’m fairly offended- should I be? I’ve never discussed my sex life at work and this person barely knows me.

    1. Woah. Yeah, I’d be offended unless it was my BFF who I happened to work with, and even then, she’d already know the answer. My sex life is not a coworker’s business. Some people just have no filter (best case scenario and waaaay too common among lawyers in my experience) and others are just jerks. You are moving soon though–onward and upward!

      1. This was the second time I’ve been asked at work so I was concerned I was overreacting. So thank you!

        1. I’ve been in a similar situation and I always veer on the side of making it seem like I’m doing everything alone. Most people know I have a bf and that I am looking to move out of my parents’ home to my own apt, and unless they ask whether I am moving in alone I plan on making it seem as though I am. No need for them to judge, esp since my boss is religious.

    2. Any chance they were just interested in the legal implications of cohabitating? Lawyers can be socially tone deaf and, as goirishkj pointed out, have no filter.

      2. It was more the assumption that Id be living common law that offended me. I never said I was and she didn’t even ask (not that she had a right to)

    3. I’m sure this is a YMMV thing but coming from someone I didn’t know well, that comment would offend me. He might have meant marriage and not sex, but still, if you don’t know someone well, that’s why you don’t say things like that (they might get misinterpreted)!

    4. Beyond the issue of inappropriateness or offensiveness or whatever (which have been covered) that’s just an odd question. I mean, why wouldn’t you just say “Oh is this the first time you’ve lived together?” Or “How’s the move going?” Or one of about a billion more normal questions.

      Besides, coming from a state where there is no common law marriage, this question has no meaning to me. lol.

      1. Haha. See, I would never ask someone if this was their first time living with someone before. To me that’s the same as asking- you obviously engage in premarital sex now, did you do so in the past as well?

        1. Oh, I don’t mean I’d ask if this is the first time you’ve lived with *anyone ever* before, just this person. But also, I guess I don’t really associate moving in together with the dividing line between premarital s*x or not (god knows it wasn’t the line for most of my roommates), but you know, I’m a godless, liberal, northerner.

    5. I don’t read “living common law” as prying into details about your sex life at all, although I do find it a bit weird (in terms of phrasing). I think it’s probably a bit inappropriate, but sounds more socially awkward than malicious to me.

      1. It’s more the assumption that I’d live with someone before marriage- I certainly didn’t say I was going to or that I was thinking about it.

        1. I don’t know where you live, but it’s more common than not in my west-coast city for couples to live together before marriage. I actually am opposed to it (for logistical, not moral reasons), but I’d probably ask someone “have you guys lived together before?” without even thinking about it. I’d be more careful about that in the south or rural parts if the state, but in my current city, it’s perfectly natural.

    6. Hey, it’s better than the one we saw a while back about “are you living in SIN!?!?” (Vacationing in sin? My memory’s hazy.)

      Luckily I’m in the liberal left coast, so when I did the same thing everyone just thought it was great.

      1. You mean they said they did or they didn’t say anything.

        Not to be a jerk but you’d be crazy to think that people are not judging you. Frak, I don’t even live in the same city as my SO and people at my work judge me.

        1. You seem incredibly sensitive to this subject. I wasn’t going to say anything because I understand that in different places around the country people might think of things differently, but you brought this to me.

          I MEANT that people do not judge me for living with my boyfriend. Not even my grandparents. It is normal and expected that one would live with their SO prior to marriage in my social/professional circles. I can’t think of anyone I know who did NOT live with their SO’s prior to marriage. Frequently this occurs because of a move like you’re describing. Why would anyone move to a whole different city for someone they’re not even willing to live with? (I understand you probably have an answer to this question, it’s rhetorical.)

          Like I said, different places have different mores, don’t try to impose yours on anyone else. Quite honestly, sorry that this sounds mean, but now I’m just thinking that your coworkers aren’t quite as uptight as you are.

          1. I do not know a single profesional woman in a cl relationship in my city who is even close to my age. It is not something that I feel is common or that I feel carries any respect where I am from.

            Sorry if I offended you.

          2. Well, I’m a little offended, but I’ll get over it. I understand you didn’t intend to, water under the bridge and all that. Now I just want to know, where do you live?? I have lived in the Midwest, the South (City though, Atlanta) New York, Michigan, and (most of my life) California and never encountered this attitude. I understand if you don’t feel you can share, but I am very curious.

            It is also strange to me that you call it a “common law” relationship. I’ve never really heard it put like that and the phrase gives me a negative visceral reaction. We’re not common law anything, we’re just together. We don’t pretend we’re married and we don’t act like we’re married (i.e. combining finances, having kids, etc…) We’ve just made and planned out life together and probably will eventually get married, but it’s not a priority.

          3. I’ll pin it to western Canada (not British Columbia). The firm
            I will be starting at when I move has all Catholic lawyers (as far as I know).

            Common law is what we call married like relationships up here- new legislation in BC and other parts of Canada gives a lot of rights to common law partners if their relationship breaks down. Honestly I’d be more offended with a question about living together than one about common law.

            Living together is a life choice one and it is not one that my coworkers should spectate on.

        2. Sounds like you’re in a very judgy work environment. When I was living in DC, partners at the office basically expected associates (male and female) would live with their SO’s because of the cost of living.

          1. You know, half my salary goes to rent right now and I’m sure other young women are in the same boat where I live.

            I’m not sure if the lack of living together among women my age in my city is related to morals or the lack of available single men because splitting rent is pretty tempting. If the situation had presented itself I can’t say for certain I’d have turned it down. Id like to say that I would not have but who knows. Luckily the new city I’m moving to is affordable.

      2. Haha that was me that received that lovely “vacationing in sin” remark from a senior colleague in my department. It still makes me cringe when I think about it!

      3. Just to support CA — here in my East Coast life — I have only known one or two people who DIDN’T “live in sin” before they got married. Its so common that its basically a non-issue, especially in the workplace. And frankly, if someone had an issue with it, that’s really more their problem.

        But it seems to be that we’re coming from different world views Lthgrl (and possibly different decades, but we’ll leave that aside for now).

        1. Well I’m 22 if that helps. :) I mean no one is ever going to think that my living with some dude is the start to a long term serious relationship.

    7. You’re not overreacting. I’d just laugh at the absurdity of the question (like it was meant as a joke) and change the subject.

      1. Ha, ha, I can’t believe you asked that! By the way, did you hear what happened with the Smith account? (chatter, chatter), oops, gotta go wrap things up with x, see you around! (brisk walk away)

    8. When you said Western Canada, it made me wonder if the “Lth” is short for Lethbridge, Alberta. You don’t have to respond to this message with a confirmation of my suspicion, if you want to stay anonymous.

      My grandmother grew up in an American family that homesteaded in Lethbridge in the 1920s, and hearing about life “on the farm” has always given Lethbridge a special place in my heart. I got a chance to visit on a cross-Canada road trip, and it was gorgeous. The cooleys (sp?) are so fascinating.

  21. Hi all! I am currently coveting a Tibi dress to wear to some of the many weddings, graduations and parties I have to look forward to this summer. The only problem is that it’s $675 and I’d like to pay no more than $500 for it. I feel like some of you gals have mentioned an app and/or website that will follow the coveted item for you and notify you when it goes on sale. Does such a thing exist?

    Thanks so much!

  22. Pet related TJ. Sorry this is rather unrelated, but since I know many of you are pet owners – I need some advice!

    Anyone have experience re-housebreaking pups? My bichons (2yrs and 4yrs) are having problems consistently not going potty in the house. They never had accidents in our apartment, but we moved to a house (with a fenced in yard) about 8 months ago and now they are having issues. They know how to ask to go outside, and we never ignore them when they ask…but they still seem to have problems (selectively though – they will go for a month without pottying in the house, then do it 4 times in one day).

    Sigh. TIA.

    1. Have they gone to the vet? I would double check that they don’t have UTIs or some other infection.

      If they’re healthy, I would basically revert to housebreaking 101. Clean the areas they’ve peed with an enzyme cleaner so they can’t smell it later. Go back to crate training – they are in their crates or tethered to you in the house at all times. Lots of praise and treats when they go outside and if they go in the house, pick them up and take them out immediately – then praise them for finishing outside.

      1. Yes – agreed about checking them out for a health issue. My dog has had a UTI once or twice, and we would otherwise never know (she didn’t indicate she was in pain, etc.) except for the frequency with which she needed to go to the bathroom.

    2. Did the house have previous residents? If it’s not new, it could be that past cats/dogs/assorted animals have gone potty before and your pups can smell it. If that’s the case, they’ll pee so long as they can smell those other animals’ urine. Even if the carpet’s new, if the subfloor isn’t and wasn’t deodorized, they might still smell the other animals. I’m not sure what to do about it, though.
      They could also be having separation/anxiety issues. I had a Havanese, which is a similar breed, and he peed for at least a year after we moved, and I think he was just so anxious about the new environment, that any new thing caused a pee fit. Work schedule change, new noises, new smells, what have you.
      Have you been to the vet?

    3. I think schedule is everything. Make sure they eat at the same time every day and that you get in the habit of taking them out at very regular times even if they don’t need to go. If your issue is that they’re peeing constantly, it might not be a bad idea to regulate their water intake (talk to you vet before this). It’s also possible they picked up something in the yard that is wreking havoc on their system.

      My great dane likes to reprogram her bathroom habits about every six months. It’s…challenging.

    4. I agree with the poster above that said to go back to house training 101 for a little bit. Dogs should be at your side or in their crate when inside (and the crates should be fairly small; not anything where they would be able to do their business in one corner and then go lay on the other side of the crate to get away from it). When you are home, take them out frequently, maybe every 2 hours or so, whether you think they need to go or not. When the go outside, praise them as they are doing it, and give them a treat *immediately* after they are done. Our dog trainer said that you have less than a second to reward a dog in order for the dog to associate the reward with what they just did. The treat should be something that is easy for them to eat, so that they get the instant satisfaction from it–we found that those soft liver treats worked best, because you can break them up into smaller pieces and they are very easy for the dog to chew. Good luck…I know this is frustrating.

    5. I don’t have any different suggestions, but I have a nearly 4-year-old bichon and they are notoriously bad at potty training. She’s generally ok at my place, but I remember taking her there the first time and literally the first thing she did was run into what was going to be my bedroom and pee. You have my sympathy.

    6. Do you walk them or just let them in the yard. There are times my dog just won’t go in the yard and insists on a walk. At least if you walk them until they go then they won’t go in the house.

  23. So I have had the most ridiculously stupid morning:
    Woke up at the butt-crack of dawn to go to two case managment conferences/status hearings in a very podunk part of my state. First hearing’s at 9:30am, second’s at 10am (why we’re having the 10am hearis beyond me since my office filed a voluntary dismissal a few weeks ago for that case). I attend the previous hearings for both cases so I know where the courthouse is and where the Magistrate typical has his hearings. Get to the courthouse with about 10 mins to spare. Go to the courtroom and it’s pitch-black inside. Uh-oh. Find a bailiff who informs me that he hasn’t seen the Magistrate all morning. Look at the Notice of Hearing and realize it says the hearing is in the neighboring county (same circuit), but still in front of the Magistrate (he handles hearings in all the counties in this particular circuit). 10am hearing is noticed at my present location. Not know what to do, I hop in my car ans haul butt to get to the other county while calling my assistant to call the judicial assistant to figure out what’s going on. Get to the other county shortly before 10am. Bailiff there informs the Magistrate has NO hearings there that day. I go to the court admin office who call over to the Magiatrate’s clerk and confirm that he has a docket in the first county this morning. Ugh. Hop back in my car and haul over to my original location. It’s now 10:45 and the Magistrate had just finished court. A baliff takes me back to chambers and I explain the whole mess to the Magistrate. The bright side – HE was super apologetic because it was the court staff’s mistake which sent me running all over creation. He confirmed that the one case was dismissed and I was able to get an order I needed signed for the other case. Sigh. Lesson learned? Read the hearing notices a little bit more closely.

    Corporette hive, please advise – It’s barely 11am and I need a drink. Do I REALLY have to go back to the office now?? *pout*

    1. Jeez that sounds awful but at least he was understanding. Buy yourself a yummy sweet treat (Frappucino in my case, with lots of whip), go back to the office and do easy tasks only, and then reward yourself with a drink this evening.

  24. So I applied for an in house position for a great company last year (been at BigLaw for way too long and sooo ready to go in house). After many months, several interviews and and not hearing a peep from them for the past month, I got an offer yesterday….yaaay!!! It was like a dream, really. Cannot believe I will actually be able to leave my firm after all these years.

    BUT…I have been diagnosed with PCOS and my husband and I are going through fertility procedures. We initially started late last year, with some treatments. Then we put everything on hold in Feb this year because I thought I had a chance with this in house position. However, after three more months ofindecision on the company’s part, I figured I should not put my life on hold waiting for them to make a decision. So about a week ago, hubby and I decided to start treatments again – and this time we decided to go straight for IVF. So we are now into our IVF cycle and I got the offer yesterday.

    SHould I cancel the IVF and restart it after I start the new job? The thing is, my current job covers IVF and so we are paying next to nothing for the treatment and I want to take advantage of the coverage before quitting. There is no guarantee that IVF will work (although I am as positive as can be). But if it does work, it means I would be starting the new job, probably a month pregnant. Anyone gone through anything similar. Started a new job pregnant? If I find out I am pregnant before my start date, should I tell my new employer?

    1. If I’ve learned anything from this reading this site for awhile, its that there is no perfect time to start a family. I say start the IVF, take the job, and see how it shakes out. Hopefully it will all work out for the best.

    2. First: keep doing IVF because if you can get it at low/no cost, that’s a huge blessing.

      Second: I would tell your new employer when there’s something to tell. Don’t worry about taking the job b/c obviously you’re not pregnant now, so you’re not being sneaky or anything.

      I know it probably seems like the timing is terrible, but karma is a wonderful thing so have faith it will work out. Best of luck to you and your husband!

    3. I am in a nearly identical situation to you, and am just as lost. I am also, hopefully, going to be starting a new job 1-2 months pregnant through medical assistance at the end of July, a job that I accepted four months ago while not pregnant. I have loads of plans and worries on how to handle it.

      So…even if it’s just for me, please re-post here if things work out and you decide how you will handle it. I’d really like to hear from someone else.

      1. Thanks everyone…your thoughts are helpful and confirm my inclination…to continue with the IVF and accept the job. Will discuss some more with DH tonight and hope for the best…

    4. Keep going. You don’t know how things are going to turn out, and if the worst situation is that you have a baby several months into a new job, well congrats to you.

      My friends lost twin boys 16 weeks into a fresh IVF cycle. It was very traumatic (no ish) and they opted to go the adoption route. While they were waiting to hear about adoption, there “free” frozen cycle was about to expire (I don’t really understand all the details) so they decided to take the risk and go for it. 6 weeks later, they got the phone call for the adoption. They now are the proud parents of two kids, seven months apart.

      The moral to that story to me, is do your best and let the chips fall.

      1. Totally agree with everyone here. I am an IVF graduate (proud mom of twin boys) and I got pregnant during my final year of law school. Continue on your path and let nature take its course.

        Congrats on your new job and best wishes on the IVF!

    5. I’m a little late here, but totally agree — go forward with both the new job and the IVF. Timing is out the window at this point. You don’t know if the IVF will work, and I think you have to try it.

      I’m in a very similar situation now — we TTC’d 4 years, failed 4 IVF’s, and I started job hunting earlier this year. I applied for a job online and did a phone interview. Then heard nothing from the company for 2 months, during which time we did an IUI that worked. Now 8w pg, they just called me to set up an in-person interview. Oh well, I’m still moving forward on both! We’ll see if I get an offer, and if so I’ll figure out what to do.

      Good luck with your IVF, keep us posted!

  25. Contd….

    So the in house position’s offer came a little lower than I would have thought – about 10k lower. I want to negotiate for something a bit higher. But I have never negotiated salary before. Any tips? How do I go about it? Thanks!

    1. My recent salary negotiation was done through my recruiter so I don’t have great wording suggestions. They had originally given a salary range and the offer was the lower end of that range. I countered back (through the recruiter) that I wanted the higher end of the range and a different start date. Both were accepted and it wasn’t a big deal, although I was really stressed for no reason. Just ask. Worst that they can say is no.

  26. Another shopping challenge: I’m looking for a citrus orange top that has either a belted or smocked waist. I want to wear it with a great maxi skirt that I got last year. The skirt is feeling neglected because I have never found the right top to pair with it. I feel like the fullness of the maxi needs to be balanced by a top that is narrower at the waist. I found this top but I’m not going to spend this much money. The color and style are great but under $50 would be great. Thanks!

    http://www.net-a-porter.com/product/181566?cm_mmc=ProductSearch-_-US-_-Tops-_-Belted

  27. Shoe care question. I’ve been coveting a pair of black patent leather heels for some time, but it’s been years since I’ve owned shoes in patent leather, mainly because I’m worried about scuffing them up and ruining them. All my patent leather heels in the past have been scuffed pretty quickly, simply by the shoes rubbing together as I walk. Apparently I walk funny or am a huge klutz.

    Anyway, how impossible is it to remove marks from dark patent leather? Is there anything I could do to prevent them from being damaged? How do you care for your patent leather heels?

    1. There are special polishes meant specifically for patent leather, which work pretty well at restoring shine and removing scuffs. Just dab some on with sponge applicator or a rag and buff. The ones I’ve used are milky/white but go on clear.

      1. Yes, I got heels fixed on patent shoes and the cobbler sold me on some sort of product that you wipe on patent and gets the scuffs off. I thought I had just fell for his sales pitch, but have ended up using it several times and it works. I only use it when I notice a dirty area or bad scuff mark. Try a shoe repairs shop.

  28. So does anyone else watch Hart of Dixie, and if so, was Wade not smoking hot last night? But my main question is where can I get a red jacket like the one Zoe was wearing in last night’s episode? Seriously, I love that jacket.

    2. Wade was so hot, it was almost like the replaced him with an even hotter Wade just for that episode. I mean, he was soooooooooo hot. (Also, if you see upthread, I clearly watch this show and am firmly on Team Wade…so yeah).

  29. Please help me pick some nude pumps for summer. I’m pretty price sensitive, these are the two I’ve come up with. I like the very classic shape:

    http://www.zappos.com/ivanka-trump-amoro-light-natural-leather

    and

    http://www.zappos.com/nine-west-ambitious-taupe-synthetic

    I wish the ivanka trump matte ones came in the color of the nine west patent, but you can’t have everything. I just want a useful everyday light colored shoe… .which one should I get?

    Thanks ladies!

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