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Updated: Oct 11, 2021 389 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Tweed Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | ·

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Hello, sunshine! This tweed blazer from Talbots would brighten up even the dreariest of days. I love this shade of yellow because it can work with a wide variety of colors.

This fall, I’d wear it with an olive sheath that's currently hanging in my closet, being criminally underutilized. Come spring, I’d wear it with light gray or white.

The jacket is $209 at Talbots and comes in plus sizes 14–22, misses sizes 2–16, and plus petite sizes 16–22.

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Sales of note for 9.10.24

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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    Who’d like to spend my money for me?

    I have a large store credit for Kohl’s. I also have a pile of threadbare yoga pants that I need to replace with a product in a similar genre, though I’m open to considering more modern styles (joggers, leggings, whatever) as long as they’re sleek and minimalistic.

    Prefer dark solid colors, and natural fibers (where feasible).

    • lulu

      I love Kohl’s Tek Gear line. Their high waisted cotton leggings with the side pocket are awesome. I’m sure their yoga straight cut pants are great too.

      • PolyD

        I bought a few pairs of leggings, including one with a built in skirt from that line. They seem like pretty good quality. I’ve also gotten workout tops – I like the tank-style tops.

        I buy my ASICS gym shoes from Kohl’s and I also like the Vera Wang pajamas. Very soft and they seem to wear pretty well.

        They sell a few good lines of kitchenware and small appliances, too. I think I got my KitchenAid mixer from them a few years ago – 30% off coupon + free shipping was the best deal I found at the time.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Depends on the type of credit, but you might be able to use it toward Sephora or Nike items sold via Kohls.

  2. Patricia Gardiner

    Does anyone have any recommendations for lamps?
    We just moved to a new-to-us house (yay!), but there is no overhead lighting in most of the rooms and it is DARK! We have a few lamps but need a bunch more soon. Are there any sources a step up from Ikea but still affordable (ie, not Restoration Hardware prices)?
    Thank you!

    • BeenThatGuy

      I like HomeGoods or HomeSense for lamps (both table and free standing). They are especially great if you don’t have something very specific in mind. I also have lamps from Pottery Barn and West Elm that have lasted through many decor changes.

    • IL

      Target has a surprisingly good online-only selection. I keep browsing the Franklin Iron Works brand on their site for our farmhouse-style house but haven’t purchased one yet.

      • Sloan Sabbith

        I have a target lamp I bought 11 years ago for my dorm room. It has a paper shade that I’m kind of shocked is still with me after nine moves.

    • Allie

      I’ve been eying Apt. 2B’s lamps. I haven’t bought one so can’t vouch for them, but they look really nice at a good price.

      • Senior Attorney

        Don’t know about their lamps, but I bought a sofa and a piece of art from Apt. 2B and have been really happy with both.

    • Veronica Mars

      Just went through this. Ok, so first thing I’d do is walk around your house and count the number of light bulbs in each of your overhead lights. Most are likely boob lamps with one or two lightbulbs. Then in every single room, go through and try to find a light fixture that has at least one more bulb in it. Home Depot has some great options that aren’t too expensive (although if you can’t replace them yourself, that will add up with an electrician). If you have a very dark room (our kitchen has no can lights) I really like the Livex Meridian collection which goes up to 5 bulbs in a flushmount. In terms of table lamps, I really like Jonathan Y which is carried on Overstock, Amazon, etc. For floor lamps, I think the higher quality and heavier ones from CB2, Crate and Barrel, etc are worth it. And if you look at One King’s Lane, they have some good options (filter by price, there are some good ones around $200). Visual comfort is also wonderful but very pricey. However, they do 20% a couple times a year which makes it more reasonable.

      • Veronica Mars

        Sorry, missed the part about not having a lot of overhead light. In that case, look into plug in swag sconces. They can actually be more flattering than overhead light and can help add light without cluttering tables/floor.

    • Anon

      I love West Elm’s lighting, it’s not as expensive as RH and the quality is great.

    • Anon

      I solved this in the kitchen by getting recess lighting installed. Happy with the result and want to do more but have to pace myself. For lamps, definitely Home Goods, Target, and honestly just a lamp store/lighting store in the suburbs.

    • Anon

      My faves are from cb2 and west elm. I have Target lamps too but they’re lightweight and the color wipes off two of the lamps if I clean them, so they’re not forever lamps.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t ignore ikea altogether. I have lamps from ikea for my bedroom nightstands and love them — both the style and the function.

    • SF in House

      I recently moved in to a house without overhead lighting in the bedrooms. I bought plug in pendant lights from Am*zon, then used cord covers to make it look cleaner.

  3. BeenThatGuy

    I absolutely love this pick! I like the way they were able to style it with fuchsia flats (I would have never thought of that). Looks like I’ll be doing some online shopping today.

  4. bbb

    We’re supposed to go to Nola next weekend (leaving the 22nd) on SW. What would you do? It’s about a five hour drive for us. Anybody have thoughts on whether SW will get it’s stuff together by then???

    • Anon

      I know so many people who had their weekend plans destroyed by the SW mess this week. In your shoes, I would take control and either cancel the trip or cancel the flights and drive.

    • Anon

      For 5 hours, I’d drive no question – it will take at least that long on a good day to fly by the time you get there early enough and deal with all the airport things.

      • Brunette Elle Woods

        I completely agree. By the time you get to the airport, get through security, board etc you’re better off driving.

    • Anon

      I’d drive. A 5 hr drive is probably like a 1-1.5 hr flight. Add in the 45min or more you need to be there ahead of your flight time, plus the time it takes to get to your departure airport, plus probably 30 min getting from the airport to downtown NOLA, and you’re not looking at a huge time savings compared to flying. I wouldn’t chance SW given what a mess they seem to be in.

      • Anonymous

        I would never, ever fly if I could just drive in 5 hours. Flying saves little to no time and involves much more risk of delay than driving.

    • Anon

      What is the deal really? I’ve heard that air traffic control are taking it out on SW for their vaccination plan. AA is my airport’s 99% of slots dominant airline and SW is a minor player locally, but I know that something like all of AA’s very small exempted employers did get shots, so not sure why SW is singled out.

      • Elegant Giraffe

        Here in Dallas (SW HQ), the discussion is around their vaccination plans. But that doesn’t make sense to me for exactly the reason you said – AA, also headquartered here, did not have much fuss about their plan. The pilots’ union says it has nothing to do with vaccines, only scheduling. Honestly it seems like some sort of internal meltdown. For decades, they had such a great reputation here as a great place to work and that reputation has slowly declined over the last couple of years.

          • Anon

            How so — pilots at one company putting up a stink? AA in my airport has really had no issues or nothing of this magnitude. People in my city that is pretty much at 50% overall are pretty compliant in the airport (workers, contract workers, airline employees, etc.).

          • anonshmanon

            When United announced their vaccination mandate, the pilot’s union issued a statement that over 90% were already vaccinated, way ahead of the flight attendants. That was back in August. Are SW pilots a very different group of people?

      • Anon

        Anon 9:30, where did you hear that air traffic control are taking it out on SW for their vaccine mandate? The CEO, pilots union, and FAA all say that vaccine mandates had nothing to do with it. Ted Cruz, Trump, and Fox are the only sources Google shows for this idea.

      • no

        They were blaming covid (in general) and weather at first. Which to me says internal org problems because no other airline had “weather” problems and “covid” without any elaboration seems to be a convenient catchall excuse now for everything.

    • No Face

      Definitely cancel the flights and drive. Use your credits to book your next vacation so you have something to look forward too!

    • Cat

      Voice of dissent perhaps, but I loathe driving. The odds that SW is still messed up 10 days from now seem low.

      • Anon

        I dunno. I had a flight canceled on SW last month – they automatically rebooked me for a flight with an arrival that was only a couple of hours later than I would have had, but it was the first time that had happened to me on Southwest. At the airport and on the plane people were swapping stories about recent problems with Southwest, and there were a lot of stories. I’m planning on flying American for the foreseeable future. I think something may be going on behind the scenes that Southwest isn’t admitting to, and it’s been going on for awhile. As I said, I’m steering clear of them for at least the next several months.

        • Anon

          I’m pretty certain that Southwest has had one or more ransomware issues this year based on things I’ve been told by people in Dallas. Not sure if that is part of the past weekend though

  5. Anonymous

    Jumping on the “spend my money” train – I have a large credit (like $170) at Tom’s. I have never liked the look of their classic shoe that made them famous. Any loved styles? I rarely wear heels anymore but I can.

    • Anonymous

      Do you have any kids in yourlife that you’ll do some holiday shopping for? I think their classic looks are cute on kids.

    • Anonymous

      I have tons of Tom’s shoes and none are the classic style. My faves might be the Kelsey boot. I also have the Lexie sandals but it looks like they are out of stock now.

    • No Face

      I love my Majorca cutout sandals. They are the only heels I still wear because they are so comfortable for me.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I have a bunch of Toms. Kind of the classic style but not entirely are their Alpargata cupsole flats, they look more like street sneakers than Toms.

      The slippers might be good, even if you don’t like the classic style to wear outside.

      The Darcy flat looks like a pretty basic loafer. Or the Jutti neat flat, too. I’ve had a pair of their ballet flats and they were super comfortable. The Julie D’Orsay flats also look nice.

      The booties also look like they’d just look like normal shoes- look at the Reese. I have a pair of black booties from them that doesn’t look like it’s made anymore but it’s just a basic black bootie.

      The sneakers also might be an option.

    • JHC

      I’ve bought a couple pairs of Tom’s sunglasses over the years and they’ve been great.

  6. Anonymous

    I get the sense that everyone has changed. Maybe that’s an exaggeration – but it just seems like tempers are shorter, expectations different, etc. Has anyone found an article or have a theory describing this collective …change? I read an article about pandemic fatigue in 2020 and one in early 2021, but I don’t remember the quick temper/negativity parts. I’m not even sure I know how to articulate this- people yelling on work calls, the signs posted at restaurants to be kind, I feel like I’m missing a common “thing” and I’m sure someone can describe it better than me.

    • Anokha

      I would guess it ties into the overall polarization of the past few years. I spent so much of the pandemic just angry with individuals not taking basic precautions or following Covid guidelines. And while I’m no longer angry all the time, I definitely feel jaded — and I don’t know if that’s going to go away anytime soon.

      • LaurenB

        I think it’s a realization how selfish and stupid people are. It’s so disheartening that there’s a big chunk of this country who refuses a miracle vaccine and can’t be bothered to mask. It’s affected my overall happiness. And I’m privileged, boostered, live in a blue state with high compliance, and can arrange my life to avoid people.

    • Anon

      I had really hoped that the spirit of September 12 would take hold of us, but that has NOT happened. NPR today had a story where someone was talking about women fighting over a can of collard greens. Maybe it was local to me (collards sure are), but the mood seemed to be that people have just their ability to self-regulate. We are all toddlers now?

    • anon

      I’m feeling this, too. I can’t put my finger on what exactly has changed, but I’ve noticed that work feels more transactional than ever and people are quicker to find fault. It’s a far more negative environment than it was pre-pandemic. I’m sure everyone is mentally fried. I know I am.

    • Anon

      On this site, too, there has been an uncommon level of gratuitous meanness lately. We can do better.

    • Anonymous

      It’s grief and trauma. There was four or five years of political trauma, there was racial trauma, and then there’s pandemic trauma. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that.

      • Anonymous

        I’m feeling a lot of trauma as a woman in particular. The modest success of the #metoo movement has been eclipsed by having a rapist-in-chief for four years, the Texas abortion law, and a growing movement to silence feminist voices. I’m having a hard time with it.

        • Anon

          I think it’s more schools being closed for over a year, so moms picked up the school job in addition to already having jobs. I didn’t have time for the news beyond the weather until just recently.

          • Anonymous

            No, that’s not what I was saying. Maybe it’s true for you, but I’m upset about the tolerance of male violence against women and control of women at the highest levels, not school closures. That’s an important issue but not the one I’m talking about.

    • Anon

      I’ve read about these things here and there but honestly haven’t seen it in real life. People are tired, but I think that’s the times not a personality overhaul.

      • anon

        +1 this hasn’t been my experience, but certainly do not want to diminish the OP’e experience. I suspect a lot of it has to do with social and other environmental factors which will be personal. My work colleagues are being generally compassionate even with the struggles we are facing in industry, my friend groups have rallied to support each other even more, and I am EXTREMELY fortunate to not have any close family members die and my own infection was mild (although 10 months later still have breathing struggles during exercise).

    • Anon

      I also wonder if limited in-person interactions have just eroded our manners/politeness/etc. Every interaction (e.g. zoom, curbside pickup, etc.) is so stilted and transactional. Add in heated political rhetoric (and everything being politicized), and maybe that’s a perfect storm. Lots of weird things during the pandemic–fewer cars on the road but skyrocketing automobile mortality (b/c people were speeding a lot).

      • anne-on

        This. The lack of any in-person interaction (video calls help but not a ton) makes it much easier to read negative to neutral tone into emails/instant messages/slacks/texts/etc. and it multiplies for people you’ve never ‘met’ in person. I know I personally feel warmer/more connected to teammates I have met in person and ascribe neutral to positive emotions to their notes vs. ones I have not met (this is very, very common).
        My old firm was trying to organize in-person meetings among the vaxxed senior leaders because this was becoming such an issue (people getting gripey/not as polite via e-communications) and it was leading to massive employee satisfaction issues.

        • Anon

          This surprises me, since it’s always been the opposite for me. I give a lot of the benefit of the doubt to emails/IMs/Slack/texts, and as a result feel warmer/more connected to people I communicate with this way. Is there a generational divide on this (it’s true that I grew up with IMs and texting)?

      • Anon

        I can’t believe that the street racing is continuing to the extent that it is. It feels like it’s more nights of the week than not. And it’s so loud even from blocks away.

    • Anon

      You don’t need to read about it. The powers that be (government and media) encouraged people to be mad at each other over a pandemic. The theory of asymptomatic transmission, completely divorced from even something like sustained contact with a symptomatic infected person, encouraged people to view each other as potential harbingers of death.

      Previous generations understood that pandemics happen, last many years, and had pandemic protocols that were developed over five thousand years. That was all thrown out the window; we used protocols that were developed in the aughts and had never been tested before. A bunch of wildly arrogant people believed that we could control a pandemic, which is like controlling a volcanic eruption; rather than being humbled by nature (assuming, of course, that this is a natural disease), the technocrats looked for someone to blame.

        • No Face

          It’s a fairly common way of thinking among the people I know on the right. The “real” problem was the response to the pandemic, whatever that response was (lockdowns, masks, skipping indoor dining). People were mad because of the government and the media, not because anger was a response to the choices people were making. Etc etc.

      • Anon

        Or I’m just mad because yet another person has their mask down under their nose. But okay.

      • Anon

        I think you’re being too kind to previous generations. They had the same problems.

      • Anonymous

        Lol 1/3 of Europe died in the Plague minimum so no thank you on their methods.

      • anonshmanon

        I am not sure what 5000 year old protocols you mean. I think decision makers today look at the devastation of the 1918 flu which killed 2-3% of the global population, and they tried to prevent a comparable outcome.

      • pugsnbourbon

        LOL health organizations have been preparing for a pandemic respiratory illness for decades but nice try

    • Cat

      I read an article recently that the main thing we’ve lost is those minor interactions with relative strangers (e.g., being polite at checkout, greeting your “regular” staffer at the deli, etc) as well as brief conversations with acquaintances. In other words, being able to maintain a pleasant demeanor :)

      I attended an in-person networking event over the summer (outdoors, cases were super low) and the group I was chatting with actually laughed about how rusty we all were – making jokes about “so what do you do” and other cliche conversation starters…

      • Curious

        I just met up with a group I’d only met online prior and realized I have lost all my active listening skills. “Oh, you introduced a topic? Instead of asking you more, let me tell you about me.” And I forgot that we use Venmo to split checks. So many things.

        • Cornellian

          Yeah, i’ve left a few social situations recently being like “next time remember to ask people about themselves and follow up with more questions, you buffoon” Which is not a problem I’ve historically had!

          • Anonymous

            Same! We are all so eager to express ourselves that we’ve forgotten how to have a two-way conversation.

    • Anon

      I’m the commenter whose mentor let me down last week. It was very much out of character for them and I’m still disappointed but I’ve also been able to think about it in the context of their last 18 months. They work in local government and have been very much, day to day involved in not only our COVID response but also handling homelessness in a large West Coast City with all the awful NIMBYism that brings about, and managing programs that address racial equity. During all this they are also trying to parent two young kids who were out of school for 18 months; their spouse who also has had a difficult job. Their actions were disappointing but as my therapist said “people are just weird right now. People aren’t acting like the people we knew pre-COVID.”

      • Anonymous

        This might be an opportunity for you to reach out and support them. As a mentor who has been in the worst place for the last year, I feel truly terrible about how I’ve been mentoring my mentees – but I also feel like this has been an incredibly difficult time and I’m pretty tapped out. It has meant so much to me when mentees have reached out to say, “How can I help you during this tough time?”.

        • Anon

          I asked them if they’d like to get coffee soon and that’s kind of all I can do at the moment- the politics of the situation that led to my frustration with them are something we both have to be careful how we handle even though it’s not a me/them issue but a problem with my work obligations/their work obligations.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think this is surprising, dealing with the pandemic is stressful, and stressed people tend to be jumpy and snappy. We have also had to deal with competition for basic resources like toilet paper and medical supplies to keep our families safe, and until the vaccines every interaction was potentially life threatening. I certainly rushed through my errands as quickly and with as little interaction as humanly possible.

    • Anon

      Yes I’ve posted before about how I think my friends have changed and I’m sure they think I’ve changed. The issue for me is that they’re my friends, or they were, and it’s not like I’ve made a lot of new friends during the pandemic, so I feel lonely.

    • Seventh Sister

      Honestly, I do think people’s tempers are shorter and their expectations are less reasonable. I’m having a conflict with a fellow parent over a pretty serious issue with a kid. I think the parent’s request is unreasonable, but I’m also surprised at how defensive I got and how fast I got to “I cannot do this because of the worst case scenario.” It was all just a lot sharper and a lot more self-centered for both of us than I would have expected a few years ago.

      People haven’t been engaging in small social interactions, and I think that makes it worse because I do think politeness is something you have to practice. And since it’s been so long, I find myself wondering stuff like, “Did I do something to p*ss off my neighbor because she doesn’t wave anymore?” or “I smiled at that baby from 10 feet away, does the dad think I’m going to snatch her or something?” Totally not useful but tough to turn off.

      • Curious

        Omg I’m so with you. A mom and her three year old moved away from me and my infant at the bus stop the other day (I think because toddler finished her game with the bike rack) and I immediately concluded it’s because they were creeped out by how I smiled at said toddler.

        • Seventh Sister

          It’s nice to know I’m not the only one. And I just keep jumping to “worst case scenario” in random ways. I live in a small town and parent that I’m conflicting with is A Big Deal at the high school my kids will attend, so I’ve somehow gone down the road of “she’s going to tank my kid’s college applications because of my actions.”

  7. Anonymous

    Any good suggestions (open to books too) for learning how to be more accepting and patient of people who have different beliefs, particularly political? The majority of my birth family, in laws, and high school/college connections vote for Party A. The majority of my law school and professional connections vote for Party B. I instituted the rule of “no politics talk” around me couple years ago because we couldn’t engage in respectful, back and forth conversation. I’m hoping to figure out some things before mid term elections. I care about both groups of people – and I was a PoliSci major! – it’s just shocking how things circle out of control.

    And for anyone who also hates a party or wrote off people who voted one way or another – I’m not judging you – if you have suggestions for how to model productive and respectful conversation, I’m all ears.

    • Anon

      Maybe digging into why do people feel this way? There is often a “because,” which we may not agree with or find resonates with us, but I know lots of people who often have a layoff in their past that devastated their family and that caused them to have issue X that is a single-item issue for them. Sort of like how guns drive some people strongly one way or the other. Maybe file all of it under “I am afraid of a loss of control” and to them, Issue A they thing will help them manage if it goes one way and be hard to overcome if it goes another (free health care, pension reform, social security age rising, guns, education, abortion, regulation of an industry one way or another)?

    • Anonymous

      What’s to figure out? You don’t like talking politics with these people so don’t do it.

    • Anon

      The problem is when it comes to Trump supporters there’s no such thing as productive and respectful conversation because their views are so insane and distorted.

      • Sally

        I agree. I don’t think being “accepting and patient” with people who support hate, misogyny, racism, lies, is necessary or for that matter, anything I want to aspire to.

    • Brunette Elle Woods

      For me, professional connections are different. Whether it’s right or wrong, if you support the opposing party to my preference, we’re not going to be friends, but I don’t have to be friends with professional contacts. You’re not friends. I wouldn’t hang out with them just for pleasure. Maybe I’d go to dinner or drinks with them but it would be only because of professional networking. I’m not friends with anyone who supports the opposing party. I wouldn’t discuss politics with those professional contacts.

      • Anon

        I think that 1/3 of Ds and 1/3 of Rs are where the center actually is (to me: fiscally conservative Ds; socially liberal Rs). This really makes me sad. Civic life seems ever more futile and pointless.

        • Anonymous

          Fiscally conservative D’s is just a fancy way of saying I like giving people rights and don’t hate the poor in theory, but in practice I won’t pay for my values

          • Anonymous

            It is this sort of unfair generalization that makes discussing politics so fraught. Why not ask why someone believes x or what their experience has been instead of assuming you know their motivations?

          • Anon

            People just don’t like math when it doesn’t cut their way. Adequately funding public pensions? Never going to happen. You don’t need to create any new programs to fund when we have sold public retirees and taxpayers a bill of goods. Illinois, I’m really looking at you. But social security and medicare are no different. Medicare for all? We’re not even able to pay for the medicare we have now. No wonder bridges are crumbling. Let’s get our house in order before we add on to it.

      • anonshmanon

        I understand how that is a less stressful way of dealing with the polarization, but ultimately, I think we need to talk more about politics in daily life, not less.

      • Anon

        I think there are a lot of white women who make peace with racists because they still want to get invited to parties and have a social circle. And then they pretend it’s a good thing because they’re tolerant.

        • Anon

          The upper-middle class white women are the ones who think that Trump et. al are racist, when a quick perusal of the Rio Grande Valley, Miami Dade county, and other exit polls would show that Trump gets higher minority support than almost any other Republican, ever.

          • PLB

            I don’t know about Rio Grande Valley but if the ones polled in Miami Dade were Cuban, that’s the same as “white women” in this context. Cubans are overwhelmingly Republican in South Florida.

    • Anonymous

      I Think You’re Wrong But I’m Listening by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers.

      • Greensleeves

        I was just coming here to recommend this book! I found it very helpful in figuring out how to frame discussions in a more productive way. I also love their podcast – Pantsuit Politics.

    • anon

      I liked I Love You, But I Hate Your Politics by Jeanne Safer. There are some absolute deal breakers for me, but I still found it useful.

    • Anonymous

      I just… don’t. Hubs will debate his anti-pharma, religious, uneducated family and it’s hilarious to watch. However I don’t believe it actually makes any difference, if anything it just makes them think I’m even more of a shrill liberal hippy who has ruined their son. I won’t be friends with people I don’t agree with moral principles on, for family I try and only see them twice a year so the tongue biting isn’t so hard.

      • Cornellian

        That’s sort of where I am. I don’t have any people I deeply care about who are conservatives in the Trump/authoritarian brand. I have some coworkers I’m civil with, and definitely have friends from traditional small government to far left, and we can be civil… but my values don’t align with anyone on the authoritarian right, so it’s basically a non-issue in terms of my personal life.

    • anon

      OP, do you really have trouble with everyone in the other party?

      I find that I can talk about political issues with friends who are conservative like John McCain/Mitt Romney. They may have different policy ideas, but we have the same general hopes for our country and are all rooted in reality.

      For those who have jumped on the bandwagon of conspiracy theories and doing things to help the pandemic be as harmful as possible, I haven’t found a good way to engage. These are my relatives who never excelled at critical thinking and they’ve been fed misinformation. If I was closer to them and had more empathy and time, I would call them often and try to be their friendly connection to reality, much like I would for a loved one who joined a cult. My empathy doesn’t reach deep enough right now, so I don’t try.

      OP, if these are the loved ones with whom you’re having trouble, you might want to check out resources for those who have had a loved one join a cult. Best wishes!

      • Anon

        “If you disagree with unprecedented economic control and lockdowns, and if you understand that previous pandemics had much more targeted quarantine, you lack critical thinking skills and have joined a cult.”

    • Anon

      I can discuss rational things with rational people. So if we agree about where we are right now (ie reality) I’m fully available to discuss whether we should do A, B, or C going forward.

      What I’m not available for is having a discussion with people who are not rooted in reality. To paraphrase Mark Twain, only a fool argues with a fool.

    • lucy

      I really enjoyed this episode of “Hidden Brain” podcast that explored moral underpinnings of our political perspectives. It has helped me to understand why people believe in different things than me, and how each side is very committed to their own perspective. https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/moral-combat/

    • anon

      To answer the question you asked, Strangers in Their Own Land is a great discussion about how to go about bridging the gap and finding a productive conversation – mostly because the author did just that in writing the book. Highly recommend. I promise that there are way more points of intersection when the conversation comes up naturally – remember 80% of americans agree on basic policy goals. Making some assumptions on which is party A and party B, the challenge with interacting with party A is that if they can see how a policy directly affects someone (e.g., this policy would deprive this good person of the ability to terminate an unviable and dangerous pregnancy or joe’s son is a great person and gay), that seems to be the most effective way to change minds to Party A’s policy is bad. Whereas, Party B typically focuses on society as a whole, Party A tends to need a concrete personal example.

  8. Anon

    I was thinking the other day of how the last time I was in the office, guys were wearing both skinny jeans and joggers (if running in to grab something when we were shut down). Now, what are guys wearing? Surely not mom jeans. FWIW, husband is a convert to Duluth Trading Company canvas-type pants but wants something less ratty (they are great pants, but he is a destroyer of things and needs a refresh). I feel like everyone is wearing casual sneakers regardless of gender.

    • PLB

      The thought of guys in mom jeans made me laugh out loud. Coincidentally, I saw a guy over the weekend in what must have been a pair of Hollister jeans from the early aughts that reminded me of a guy from law school and Lenny Kravitz. I call them “hippie jeans.” They were fitted but not tight and flared a little at the bottom and perfection for this guy. Probably not many guys could pull this look off.

      • Cornellian

        I recently saw a group of early-mid 20s guys wearing those SUPER TIGHT jeans with crotches at their knees that I remember being huge in Copenhagen and Berlin in the early-mid 2000s. I hope they aren’t coming back, but at least the waddling is funny.

    • Cat

      Based on what I see walking around the city, guys who are back to the office are dressing pretty much the same as before – slim Banana chinos, typically navy or gray, with a white & blue patterned button down. Brown lace-up oxfords, either with a leather sole or the white sneaker-style sole.

  9. Anon

    we also just bought a home and maybe i’ve watched too many episodes of Law & Order SVU, but I am a bit nervous about the idea of being alone in the house and having men come to do work. for some reason a group of people coming makes me less nervous than a single male. am i totally overthinking this?

      • anon

        +1 post-law school, I’ve only ever lived alone (12+ years in my own houses) and (unfortunately) all of the service professionals who have been in my house have been men. No issues. I use reputable companies or personal references.

    • Elegant Giraffe

      I don’t think you’re overthinking. That being said, if you’re using reputable companies (not an individual on his own) with plenty of good reviews, you are probably fine. Of course you can let a friend know when you’re having contractors there. You can put a pair of men’s work boots by the front door/somewhere visible for the contractors to see. You can be there to let the contractors in, point out what needs to be done, and then leave the house.

    • nuqotw

      I don’t think it’s overthinking. Unfortunately women have to think about this kind of stuff. I think about these things myself but then have the people do the work anyway. Recommendations are the way to go here. We have a plumbing company that came highly recommended and that we really like; they were happy to recommend the electrician they subcontract to when they need someone.

      • anonymous

        Unfortunately, your language and assumptions are transphobic and sexist. ALL people with v*ginas must worry about this stuff! Even though I assume good intentions, this type of language is the problem.

    • Anonymous

      No, you are not overthinking this at all and I’m frankly shocked any women here would blithely say so without even responding to your concerns. I find it morally abhorrent for anyone to dismiss women’s very justified concerns about male violence. But you shouldn’t crowd source this decision – trust YOUR gut and what YOU are comfortable with.

    • Anon

      I am probably super paranoid, but my husband is regularly gone for several days and I never have contractors in while he is gone. It can wait a week.
      None of the contractors I have interacted with gave me the creeps, but it just makes me feel better to have him around too.

      • LaurenB

        I have never thought twice about having workers in to do work, but why not just have a personal protection alarm in your hand if you are so concerned?

    • Anonymous

      Are you working during the day? If you’re constantly logged into your computer I would be more comfortable. FWIW, I’ve had a lot of work done but always went with contractors that I felt really comfortable with–not just financially. I check references and specifically ask about things like how they do working with kids in the house, etc.

      I don’t love the idea of things like the washing machine repair guy or the cable guy (who I don’t really get to vet) coming to service the machine when I’m alone during the day, but I also don’t want to leave them in the house alone! I try and have active work to do and be on the phone/zoom when they are here.

    • BeenThatGuy

      It’s always okay to be cautious. When I have a repairman come and give an estimate, I size them up very quickly. If they give me the creeps, they don’t get the job. I also ask questions like “will you be the one doing the job” and “will there be other workers joining you”. Lastly, I do always tell someone I have a repair man coming over and some limited details. Just so someone else knows; like of like going on a first date with a stranger.

      • anne-on

        This. We hired our contractor over 3 others (years ago now) because he was the only one out of all 4 that didn’t talk down to me when he came out to do an inspection/give us a quote. My husband’s role is much more flexible now but I’m still the one who oversees and manages the work on our antique house (ongoing, constant work, sigh). I refused to deal with someone who talked down to me and didn’t realize that I actually had more ‘fix it’ skills than my husband did as I’d owned property/did renovations before and my parents built their home when I was a teen so I got dragged along to/absorbed a LOT of the process (not to say the hours of this old house as family viewing…).
        I was explicit to this contractor that I wouldn’t hire any subcontractors he suggested if they weren’t respectful and he’s referred us to great plumbers/painters/tile folks who had no issue with me being the main point of contact.
        But, if you’re really worried, a dog helps. We have a big black dog who is a sweetheart but 80lbs and LOUD. Nobody wants to mess with that as she’s very protective of me/our son.

    • Anon

      Trust your gut, but reputable contractors and companies should be fine. That said, don’t tell them you’re home alone for the week.

      I’ve overseen myriad contractors and routine maintenance guys in the past year. Always nice, polite, and do a good job. We exchange pleasantries, I offer water or gaterade or granola bars.

      If someone ever gave me the creeps, I’d reschedule with another company or worker. If there is trauma in one’s past, or a history of anxiety, that could of course increase the tension. You know yourself. But again, if I ever felt uncomfortable, I’d say no thanks regardless of being perceived as impolite or rude. And I’m not saying this about OP, but is there a class aspect to this? I grew up working class and feel pretty comfortable around tradespeople. They are generally skilled, good and their job, and just want to do the job and get back home to their families.

    • Anonymous

      I think it is good to be cautious, but this is not something that worries me. I have had lots of workers come to my house when I am home alone (my husband works a lot and at a job that cannot be done from home, so we would never get any work done if I was waiting for him to be home for it.) If anyone made me feel uncomfortable for any reason I would not let them in or ask them to leave, but that has never happened to me. I do hire reputable companies and everyone has always been very professional.

    • Vicky Austin

      If you’re overthinking it, I am too! I think about this just to be careful. One thing I’ve learned to do is not to say, “hey, are you Jason from CenturyLink?” when they arrive. Let them tell you who they are.

      • Senior Attorney

        The HVAC company I use sends a text with a photo of the worker when they are on their way, so I will know it’s the right person. I appreciate that a lot.

    • Curious

      I think reasonable people can have different reactions to this. I never had a problem with being alone with a contractor before I got pregnant. During my pregnancy I felt far more vulnerable and experienced significant new-to-me fear even about being alone with reputable contractors referred by a friend. If one person can have two different risk tolerances, surely multiple people can differ on how they feel. I do like the suggestions here on how to mitigate risk.

    • anon

      Definitely not. I had one uncomfortable experience where I hired a locksmith to break one of the locks to a room that was accidentally locked with the key on the inside. I checked on Yelp, which had five star multiple reviews and no negative reviews. The guy who showed up did not speak English well, and overcharged me. He also had a huge hammer like tool, and when I asked him to explain why the price was much higher than quoted, kept waving it around as he was insisting on the inflated price. He then suggested that the price could be lower if I could make him feel good. It was super sketchy, and thank goodness I had a roommate (who wasn’t there at the time).

      In hindsight, I should not have been so cavalier about it. Don’t underestimate the danger of something until it happens to you.

  10. Anon

    I cooked a bunch of lentils this weekend with the goal of eating healthier this week, but now they look so boring and I’m avoiding them. Any fave ways to use cooked lentils?

    • Elegant Giraffe

      mixed up with feta, olives, tomatoes, etc and served with salmon. I think they’re kind of boring too but it’s such an easy protein/side!

      • Cornellian

        I LOLed.

        But yeah, second the recommendation for mixing with sausage if you’re not vegetarian, because they take on that flavor.

        I also love daal but haven’t ever mastered it. Mine always comes out grainy slurry.

    • Anonymous

      Agree that they’re totally boring on their own. I love two recipes from Buget Bytes: lentil and sausage stew and her marinated lentil salad. Both work with pre-cooked lentils.

    • Anan

      Grain bowls. I like farro myself. Then add veggies as you like. I usually do cucumbers, tomatoes, peppers, olives. Feta and mint if I have it.
      Moosewood had a lentil bulgar salad that is kind of like a hearty Tabbouleh that i love.
      I also really like lentil sausage soup.

    • Cat

      Awful on their own! Mix them into salads is my main advice, but I also enjoy them as a side, tossed with balsamic & olive oil and crunchy veggies & nuts to give more texture – think carrots and walnuts.

        • Anon

          I love Marcella Hazan’s lentil soup. You can leave out the bacon/ pancetta if you are vegetarian – I prefer it without myself. Hearty and healthy and delicious.

    • Anon

      Dal, though you’d need to cook them in something already. You can probably make a veg shepherd’s pie or some sort of stuffed peppers.

    • Anonymous

      These are the things I use lentils in:
      – chili
      – sloppy Lenny’s (sloppy joes)
      – Indian food
      – lentil loaf (meat loaf)
      – taco/burrito filling (cook with taco seasoning)
      – stuffed peppers/squash/zucchini
      – lentil bolognese

    • Anon

      Next time make an actual lentil recipe, lentils on their own is weird and gross. But for now, olive oil, cheese, salt, things like that.

    • AIMS

      I think a fried egg makes everything, and esp. lentils, much more exciting. I would add sauteed kale with garlic too, for interest.

    • Anon

      Use them where you’d otherwise use ground beef. Season them to within an inch of their lives and they’ll work.

      • Anonymous

        If they’re already cooked, it’s too late. Lentils need to be cooked in seasoned liquid in order to be palatable.

    • Horse Crazy

      Do this, but use your lentils in place of the beans. So good!! Link in reply.

  11. Anon

    I’m in my third week at a new job and I’m having trouble letting go of the fact that I lowballed myself. I was forced to negotiate over the phone with the recruiter while in the midst of a severe cold and sinus infection, so I was struggling to speak without hacking, and I felt mentally slow. I asked for about 10-20k less than I should have; I think in my head I mixed up the minimum benchmark with the mid-range benchmark. I tried to bring it higher after the initial offer, but barely budged it.

    My old job was so severly underpaid that this is a significant step up, but it’s still not market rate. I’m just so frustrated and angry and resentful that I managed to stay healthy for two years, then ended up miserably ill at the exact wrong moment.

    • anon

      Depending on your type of employer (not govt. or nonprofit), you don’t really know what your compensation is until you have received your first bonus. I had similar regrets right up until I received my first bonus above what I had negotiated and been offered. So focus on your performance now with the mindset that you really don’t know your compensation yet and it’s still in your control.

      And I hope this doesn’t sound insensitive, but try to focus on what you gained instead of what you left on the table.

    • Anonymous

      It does no good in looking back. I’d focus on whether you like the job itself and that it is indeed more money. If path to advancement is slow, you can always look elsewhere (especially after the holidays since things will slow soon). That’s also not a ton of money in the grand scheme—you may make a lot of that up in other benefits like better health care, more reasonable hours, less travel, better commute or the like. I’d try to focus on the big picture. The reality is that they may not have come up for you anyway, or if they had they may have only used it to ding you in future raises for being “too high paid.” (Like my former gross company.)

      • Anonymous

        Also, is your job title better or does the company carry more prestige in your professional circles? Those are the sorts of things I didn’t pay enough attention to when I was younger, and they can really make the difference in opening up future roles. There is financial benefit there that folks often don’t see until you’re looking out a few years.

  13. Anon

    I have a situation I could use some perspective on. I have a 10 month old that my in-laws watch two days a week and occasionally babysit on the weekends. They also have a below ground pool. When my baby was born, they said they’d put a fence around the pool. We also asked them to put alarms on all of their doors. They are putting the alarms on the doors but are dragging their feet about the fence now. From their view, they don’t think it is necessary because they have the alarms on the doors and because they say they never take their eyes off of him. That’s not really good enough for me. I mean, I never take my eyes off of him either but I’d still put a fence around my pool if I had one. Their pool is closed now but when it reopens next summer, I want to give the ultimatum that there needs to be a fence or my son is being moved to daycare full time. However, I also have pretty severe PPD and PPA, which I’m being treated for, but sometimes I feel like I can’t always trust my perspective right now.

    • Elegant Giraffe

      As a pool owner, this is absolutely worth pitching a fit over – have your spouse offer to pay for the fence, but yes, insist on it. That being said, I would strongly recommend infant swim rescue classes for your son which would give your child some incredible survival skills and would give you peace of mind.

      • Anonymous

        Swim classes are fine for fun, but you absolutely cannot rely on them for drown-proofing at that age.

        • Elegant Giraffe

          Agreed – ISR is not the same as swim classes. I think this situation requires multiple layers of protection, which is why I think OP should insist on the fence AND do ISR.

          • Anonymous

            ISR is controversial because it provides parents with a false sense of security.

          • Anonymous

            ISR is silly pointless nonsense. It does nothing at all and shouldn’t be relied on.

      • Anonymous

        OP and her husband shouldn’t offer to pay for the fence. Pool owners are responsible for fencing their own pools. If the in-laws want to see the child in their home, the pool must be properly fenced. End of story.

        • Anonymous

          +1. OP can say “thank you so much for the childcare so far. We’re moving the baby to daycare now because the pool is unfenced and a safety hazard now that baby can walk. We can reconsider in the future if you change your mind about installing a fence.”

          • Senior Attorney

            I agree with this. Don’t budge. It only takes a second for a tragedy to happen.

          • Senior Attorney

            I mean I agree with this wording. If OP really prefers the grandparents’ care, and paying for the fence would make it happen/happen sooner, I have no particular objection to that.

        • Anon

          The better thing is to pay for it if you can and it’s not an expense they can easily carry. It is about removing objections, no? If OP has had 2 days of 1:1 child care, surely the savings net out to this cost, at least over time, no?

        • Anon

          Well she’s getting free childcare so I think that’s different. Also? Why let money get in the way of safety. But absolutely fence off the pool, we had a family tragedy where my cousin drowned as a baby – it happens in seconds.

        • Anon

          The principle of “their pool, they fence it in” is dicey when the OP is getting free childcare. The principle of installing the barn door before the horse gets out is also a valid principle. Standing on the principle of “their pool, they pay” is insane when the result could be a DEAD TODDLER.

          Thankfully, no one was ever seriously hurt, but I come from a family that doesn’t fix things until there was a problem. A gate on a deck got installed after a kid tumbled down an entire flight of stairs. Bumpers got installed on a brick fireplace after a toddler smacked his head and had to go to the ER. Crumbling brick steps got fixed when someone slipped and broke an ankle. This, despite an approximately $500k HHI. They are foolish and reckless people; don’t be them.

          • Anonymous

            Their pool, they pay means that they put in a fence before the child is allowed back to their house.

            The real solution here is day care. These people are clearly not safety-minded.

    • Anon

      You can treat it like a busy road: doors always have to be locked. And door chime will help. And you have to keep eyes on a very young kid when they are awake. Bathtubs with water in them, toilets, all are danger items to a kid that age; ditto stairs, cars backing up, straying from the sidewalk.

      I’d prefer a fence, but these days you can’t even get contractors to come out to quote a job.

    • Anonymous

      100% insist on the pool fence, IMMEDIATELY. Pool safety is one thing you simply cannot screw around with. Most drownings of young children and toddlers occur NOT during swim time when they were not supposed to have access to the pool. This is one of the few issues in parenting where the answer is cut and dry – there should be multiple layers of safety around the pool without delay.

    • anon

      You are absolutely right to stand your ground on this. Your spouse should be the one holding them to it. For the sake of family harmony, since it’s a moot point until next summer, I would wait a few months to have the conversation about day care. As they see your child get more mobile in the coming months, they may realize themselves that they want the reassurance of a fence. If you’d like to put your name on a daycare waitlist as a backup, go right ahead, but I wouldn’t tell the in-laws at first since it will escalate the situation.

      • Anon

        Just pointing out it’s not moot – a closed pool just means it’s not heated, nit that it’s gone from the yard. Kids can get out in all seasons.

    • Anon

      You’re not being crazy or paranoid. Don’t worry. Kids can drown in an instant. Your husband should be handling this as they are his parents and he needs to stand his ground.

    • anon

      I’m 100% on your side. Alarms fail, and so do humans. Better to have all the layers of protection.

    • Cornellian

      You should offer to pay for it 100%, but you can’t both have free sitting and demand they alter their yard. I think the next step is to find a different childcare arrangement.

      • anon

        I disagree that this is a demand to alter their yard. Responsible pool owners would have it fenced to begin with. In fact, that’s the law in many locations.

        • Anon

          It isn’t here though. And if you want it done to your liking, you best foot the bill. There is a certain type of gate and fencing I’d want and I’m not sure someone else would do a similar job (e.g., beach house we rented with more of a decorative fence to keep their smaller dogs out of the pool). I want non-climbable and a swing shut gate with the lifty-lock thing at the top at adult height.

          • Cornellian

            Yeah, agreed. Nannies are ~25/hour depending on where you are, if they’re doing 18 hours a week that’s 450/weekly right there. I don’t think either side is being unreasonable, but if they don’t want you to pay for a nice fence of their choosing to be installed, then I think you need to find alternate arrangements.

        • Anon

          A lot of places require that pools be fenced but not that there be a fence between the house and the pool. They only require a fence to keep children from accessing the pool from outside. In fact, the vast majority of people I know with pools do not have a fence between their house and the pool (and the ones who do have small children). So offer to pay for the fence because this is a substantial cost and it is much less expensive than childcare.

          I realize this is very location specific but some of you are assuming that all responsible pool owners have not only a fence but a fence between their house and pool. And that is just not true. My parents have a pool with no fence between it and the house – but they never have anyone under the age of 5 in their house.

      • NYCer

        Personally, I would also offer to pay for this (or the fence) since they are providing free child care.

      • Anon

        Net covers can be lethal if a kid slips underneath — I’d rather have open water b/c I treat that as a more real present danger (kid within wingspan and no multitasking if outside; doors locked if inside).

    • Anon

      Check and see if the jurisdiction where your in-laws live requires a fence around a pool. Mine does, and specifies the minimal height, locking gate, etc.

      • Anon

        How does that help though? If it was illegal, is OP going to turn her in-laws in? Better to see if they’ll let her/her spouse pay for it and get it installed. If not, find another daycare solution.

      • Anon

        How does that help though? If it was illegal, is OP going to turn her in-laws in? Better to see if they’ll let her pay for it and get it installed. If not, find another daycare solution.

    • Anonymous

      This seems like a problem you can address next year, when it is actually an issue and when you’ve successfully treated your PPD/A.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I assume she’s getting treatment for PPD/PPA, but I don’t think this is clouding her perspective on this issue. And if you want a fence in 2022 you better find a contractor now.

      • Anon

        This is a really diminishing/derogatory comment, and also shows you don’t know much about kids. My son walked at 11 months, so the OP’s child could be walking any minute now. And as soon as the child starts walking, the pool is absolutely a risk.

    • Anon

      I have grandchildren who live far away and rarely visit, and when I designed my pool, I specifically added additional fencing just for the few weeks a year they will be here. Your inlaws need to put up the pool fence.

      • Anon

        Editing for clarity: I put in permanent fencing at significant extra cost even though young children will rarely be here.

        • Anon

          And because it is a significant cost item, OP should offer to pay. Make it easy for them to say yes.

          Also, OP, your neighbors may put in pools. Everyone is doing it now. You may have one spring up closer than your inlaws. Our city does not require fences and we have several that a kid could get into. The bigger danger is still texting drivers, but it is there and you just manage to the danger (so older kids simply must be strong swimmers, starting from when they are very young). We have lots of streams and creeks and sadly kids die in those each year (few actual rivers or lakes and we are inland).

          • Anonymous

            You can’t drownproof a small child with swim lessons. If you live in a place with pools, you don’t allow your child to play at homes with unfenced pools. Just as you wouldn’t allow your child to play at a home with unsecured firearms.

          • Anonymous

            You sound insane. The existence of bodies of water anywhere doesn’t mean you don’t try to keep kids safe at their regular place of child care.

    • Anonymous

      If they did not fence the pool on their own initiative, they are not safety-conscious enough to be watching young children. Even if I paid to fence the pool, I’d be concerned that they would be ignoring other standard safety practices (anchoring furniture and TVs to the wall, etc.).

    • anon.

      We have two young kids and a pool. Make them get the fence. Honestly, I still worry about it *with* chimes on the door AND a professionally installed fence AND teaching my kids to swim as young as possible. This isn’t crazy, they need to put in the fence. And don’t buy one on OVerstock and try to DIY. Get a professional.

    • Anon

      I’m a mom in Florida: we don’t mess around with pools. My child will never be left at a house without me that doesn’t have all the pool safety things AND responsible adults. Grandparents aren’t attentive enough, sorry. Find new childcare arrangements and have them babysit at your own house. No fence, no time 1:1 with my kid.

      • anne-on

        This. We wouldn’t even let our child swim without an adult IN the pool within arms reach until he was 7 or so. A friend’s toddler slipped under the water in a small hot tub with 2 other kids in it (the adults were in arms reach and grabbed the kid out within seconds – he was sitting on the seat but slipped to the floor of the hot tub and wasn’t tall enough to stand above the water on his own). It happened SO fast. The toddler didn’t try to climb out or move at ALL and the other kids were totally silent. It scared the ever living heck out of me and really drove home how fast/silently kids can drown.

        • Anon

          It’s not ageism. My parents love my son to pieces but there were things that happened when he was in their care that were just the result of them not being as attentive as we would have been. With my parents, they felt that they had raised two children to adulthood and so they didn’t need to hear from us how to take care of a child. It was more overconfidence than a function of their age. You see the same thing with grandparents who won’t use carseats correctly, or keep kids rear-facing as long as is necessary, or who put kids in the front seat when they’re too young for it, etc. They believe that because nothing bad happened to their kids, nothing bad can ever happen, which is of course a fallacy.

          • Anonymous

            This. My in-laws’ attitude is basically “all 8 of our kids survived childhood without supervision so we must have done things right!” My sense is that they are extremely lucky all the kids survived and that if something bad had happened, they would have blamed it on the kid instead of themselves. I still love them, but I don’t really trust them to supervise small children.

        • Anonymous

          “Grandparents aren’t attentive enough, sorry” when you know nothing about the ILs whatsoever? Yes, a comment like that is ageist and someone else’s issues with their specific parents or in-laws has no bearing.They said they would put up a fence and already did the doors. So not sure why the need for projection.

    • Anonymous

      Even pools that are covered and closed can pose a risk to small children, particularly if it rains or snows. Definitely fence it. Signed, a former pediatric ICU nurse.

    • Anan

      Can they watch your child at your house? Putting the child in daycare seems punitive and depending on your relationship with your in laws, you might want to think if that is the dynamic you want as a undercurrent for your child’s relationship with their grandparents. I do think your concerns are very legitimate, though.
      Also- what does your spouse say to this?
      Also- PPA / PPD is not to be used as a way to minimize your concerns.

      • Anonymous

        Putting the child in day care is not punitive. In almost all cases, it’s better for the family relationship to put the child in day care and have the grandparents just be grandparents, for so many reasons.

        The spouse’s opinion on the issue of whether a fence is required is not relevant. Don’t give him an opening to say “It’s fine–we can trust my parents.”

        Amen to your last line.

    • Anonymous

      There are removable fences that go into the pool deck on poles. It would be super easy to take out if they want to on Friday night after pickup. They don’t have to live with a fence all the time. Just when the kid is there.

      FWIW, our 18 mo old fell in the pool once. Luckily my husband realized it, jumped in, and pulled her out. We had a near tragedy and it took literally all of 2 minutes. This is not something to mess around with.

    • Anonymous

      So you get free labour and expect them to front the costs? Yikes, that’s a bit entitled, they already are doing you a huge favour, the financial savings of babysitting is enormous. To borrow a concept from Reddit this is very much choosing beggar imo.

      • Anon

        OP here. They watch my son two days a week because my mother-in-law asked to do it. I was and still am fine with full-time daycare. The money isn’t an issue and I never said that we wouldn’t cover the cost if it came to that. This is a super unhelpful comment.

        • Anon

          OP, I don’t even have children and to me it is a no brainer that what you are asking for is totally reasonable. If you are willing to pay and that is a barrier to them, I would not hesitate. If they can afford it but just don’t want to, I’d do what you need to do for your child’s safety while still maintaining a relationship that does not involve regular, intensive childcare.

        • Ci

          I’d put the kid in daycare today – walking could be any moment now and it takes one second for the unimaginable to happen. Grandma thinks grandpa is watching the baby and vice versa, by the time they realize the alarms are doors and not smoke alarms, the baby could be in the pool already. I wouldn’t put my kid in a house even with a pool fence to be honest. (Married to a firefighter.)

    • anon

      There is nothing wrong with your perspective on pools. Everybody takes their eyes off a baby/toddler–the phone rings, someone knocks on the door, they’re just quiet for 2 minutes and it’s nice. Appropriate safety measures, including an alarm and fence, are important because it’s impossible to be perfect. healthychildren.org, which is published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, has helpful guidance on pool safety.

      Good luck though–my FIL is a pediatric doctor and recommended healthychildren.org to me and my husband when our son was born. In-laws have a below-ground pool and refuse to fence it off, despite now having 6 grandchildren between the ages of 1 and 6. When we sent the information from the website FIL recommended in the first place, they just ignored it and made excuses. Since our 6-year-old learned to crawl, we’ve never left him alone at their house. When our son was a toddler, we restricted to him to certain rooms, and DH and I had a system for ensuring one of us had eyes on our son at all times. (In addition to the pool, when our son was a toddler, in-laws also had a dog with a history of biting, but that’s another story).

    • anon

      I’d go ahead and make arrangements for full-time daycare. I’d thank them for everything they’ve done, and let them know that since the pool isn’t fenced and baby is starting to get mobile, you’re starting full-time daycare on X day. If furniture and televisions aren’t anchored, I’d make that day as soon as possible.

      The AAP and every other major organization having to do with the health and safety of children recommends that pools be fenced and heavy objects be anchored. This is basic child safety. Anyone comment that this is PPD/PPA should be seen for what it is: misogyny and a disregard for child safety.

      • Anonymous

        +1. This has NOTHING to do with PPD or PPA, nothing at all. OP, don’t let ANYONE use your mental health against you – and don’t use it against yourself, either. Basic safety precautions are for all families.

    • No Face

      I would NEVER let my kids spend time at a house without fencing around the pool without me until they were excellent swimmers – meaning years from now.

      I would do full time day care and let them the in-laws babysit at my house. If they want little at their house, they can get a fence. If they don’t want a fence, no hard feelings! My kids are not playing there without me though.

      ALSO, the moms version of this place is much nicer. I would post kid-centric questions there in the future.

    • Anon

      We used to own a house with a pool when my son was young. We had the door alarms but we also had a fence. One day the door alarm malfunctioned and I found my son, who was then just over 2 years old, outside playing by the pool fence gate – he had figured out how to flip the lock on the sliding glass door and get outside, and the alarm didn’t go off. I am sure if there hadn’t been a fence he would have gone for the pool, because he loved playing in it. To me, the pool fence is not optional, but I would also offer to pay for it. Ours cost $2,500 to install which was a lot of money to us at the time, but peace of mind is priceless. You can get pool fences that can be installed and then removed later if your in-laws feel like they don’t want the pool fenced forever. But toddlers do things in a fraction of a second and it’s not worth the risk. The same year my son was 3, a 3-year-old drowned in an unfenced backyard swimming pool only a few miles away from our house. Without the pool fence around our pool, that could have been us.

    • Anonymous

      Had a major falling out with my mil, which I posted about on here and thought I might share what I learned from tons of therapy. Please forgive me if I’m projecting but:

      1. You’re the child’s mother, your boundaries for what is safe need to be respected. It actually doesn’t matter if their own beliefs as to what’s safe are different or even reasonable.
      2. You will never be comfortable leaving your child alone with people who do not respect those boundaries.
      3. When you disagree with your in laws, your husband is in the middle but he’s not neutral. He has an interest in making both you and them equally at fault/unreasonable.

      All this to say, free child care isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

    • Deal breaker

      I would not allow my children to ever spend time at a house with an unfenced pool. You can be a wonderful, attentive, vigilant parent but accidents happen. The arrogance of someone saying they don’t take their eyes off a kid would make me completely uncomfortable having them be a babysitter.

    • Anon

      I would pay for the fence (typical black aluminum fencing can be 5-10k depending size of yard, takes 1-2 days to complete. You can usually get someone to come measure and give you an estimate for free). If they don’t want the fence, I would move to daycare (which is probably 20-30k per year for 5 days per week full time).

      I would also pay for anything child related that they do (of their own volition) or that I ask them to do (eg those door alarms).

      • Anon

        If they refuse your fence and are upset you don’t send your child over, then that’s a them problem, not a you problem.

    • Ginger

      BIL & SIL have an inground pool. Our kids are much younger than theirs, and they were not allowed in the yard unless they were wearing a PFD. And if I couldn’t locate one of my kids at any time, the first place I checked was the bottom of the pool. We eased up as they got older, but this rule was in place until they were around 5 years old or could swim fairly well. One of them fell into another relatives pool, with no PFD. He sank right to the bottom, sat there and looked around. No fear, no clue. Didn’t even cry when we got him out of the water.

  14. anon for this

    I have a much-needed weekend getaway coming up with my BFF at a cabin in the woods. We had planned to hike but now the weather forecast looks dicey. I’d like to get some small crafts or activities to do (while we drink wine) but am drawing a blank on what even to look for. What are some ideas for things we can do? We would not want adult coloring books because we both color with our small kids on the regular.

    • Anon

      YMMV but I can’t think of anything less fun than being forced to do crafts while on vacation.

      • anonshmanon

        it really is a good investment. Works for kids who don’t read, is still an interesting puzzle for adults. Small footprint cardgame, so it travels well.

    • Anonymous

      You should hike. Take basic safety precautions (e.g., appropriate clothing, check out the lightning forecast first), but go and have fun. You can hike in all seasons and weather and it will be a lot more fun than sitting inside.

    • Sunshine

      Puzzles! I didn’t do puzzles before pandemic. But I’m really enjoying them now (especially with my husband or while I listen to a podcast).

    • Anon

      Maybe make something delicious but time consuming prep-wise, that then will make the cabin smell delicious while you play cards, do puzzles, read, catch up.

    • AnonATL

      I’ve seen some really pretty needlepoint kits on etsy that I’ve been wanting to try.

    • Carrots

      I saw a video of someone who did a paired painting with a friend, where they switched the easels every 5 or 10 minutes. Could you do something like that (maybe with a paint by number if neither of you are regularly painters?) and then you each get something to remember the weekend by?

    • Anon

      If it’s not going to pour, hiking in the rain can be fun. A raincoats, rain pants, and waterproof hiking boots will keep you dry. Best of all – no people! Then come back, make some hot toddies, and play some board games.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe my husband and I are just nerds haha but we love to do word search, crossword, and sudoku puzzles together. Like working off the same book/paper at the same time. We also like actual puzzles and card games. We did these really pretty paint by number canvases early in the pandemic that were really relaxing. We got them on Amazon.

    • Anon

      Sounds fun! There are some really cute punch needle kits on Etsy. It’s a pretty easy to pick up compared to embroidery. Best part, is if you get distracted, it’s easy to just pull out the yarn and start over, no harm no foul. :)

    • Anon

      Lots of folks will say to hike anyway. As someone who hikes lots, be cautious of following this advice if both of you are not experienced hikers. Trails can get very slick in the rain, there can be washouts, etc.

  15. Smokey

    You are absolutely correct! But your baby into daycare if they won’t put up a fence. You cannot be too careful in this situation.

  16. anon

    I know someone posted about the PSLF expansion last week, but I finally got a chance to look into it–Holy Moly! If I’m reading things correctly, I’m eligible for forgiveness of the remaining $6000 of my student loans, plus will receive a refund of about $8,000 for overpayment! What an unexpected and exciting surprise! I can’t imagine what a relief this must be for people who owe much more than me. I’m so excited!

  17. no

    Wine fridge recs? First time and I’m overwhelmed by all the “best” lists and trying to tell how much money a novice really needs to spend versus more serious collectors. I only have red wine, need capacity for maybe 20 bottles, and will probably keep it in the garage.

    • anomanomanom

      If you only have red, you can do a single zone (dual zone is for if you are holding white and red) and honestly if you are a novice with 20 ish bottles, something simple is more than enough. I ended up finding one on marketplace used for a deal so can’t give you specific recs, but as someone who works around the serious side of wine by day but has a small but fun collection at home I think a lot of people seriously over engineer for a small collection. I’d throw money into a coravin for myself before upgrading my wine fridge at this point.

  18. Athleta Balance Dress

    If you have the Athleta Balance Dress and you wear it with leggings, does it stick to the leggings when you walk? I’m considering buying the dress for casual Saturdays and would wear with leggings, but I have zero interest in wearing a slip on Saturdays.

  19. allll the blonde

    Low stakes question – i’m getting my hair done today, and I feel the need to mix it up/express my midlife crisis. I’m kind of a medium blonde right now with long hair. Can’t do bangs because I spend half my life in a helmet, but am thinking going uber blonde? Any suggestions?

    • Meara

      Dye the ends a fun color? You can hide in a bun if needed and chop off once you’re over it, or keep doing with different colors?

      • Anonymous

        My teenager tried dying the ends a fashion color and was very unhappy when it faded quickly but not all the way. Apparently that is just what happens with fashion colors. I wouldn’t do it unless you are okay with its fading or are planning to cut off a lot of length soon.

  20. anon

    Has anyone traveled (by plane) with edibles? I would like to get some, which I think I can when we go to Denver to visit my husband’s family, but is it too risky to take them home with me? I live in a state where its not legal. is it possible to order them online? Thanks for entertaining my naïve questions! :)

    • Anon

      You are asking a common carrier and package delivery drivers to do something illegal. Pls don’t make this their burden to carry.

      • anon

        Well, no, I’m not asking them to do anything. I’m contemplating doing something, and asking for thoughts on risk. Thanks for playing though.

    • Cat

      Look up whatever laws apply to possession for individual use in your home state (assuming that’s the quantity you’d be bringing home…), and decide if the risk of being caught is acceptable to you.

      • Anon

        All of this. OP, there are CBD products out there you can legally transport across state lines; that’s what my friends who usually use edibles do when they travel. I have a friend with chronic severe insomnia who uses edibles to sleep (and it works really really well, with no crazy side effects like she got from Ambien). If she’s going from our state, where edibles are legal, to a state where they’re not, she travels with CBD gummies, which are legal almost everywhere (depending on concentration). The risk of getting busted is likely low, but the complicated legal entanglements that would result if you do get busted are not worth it, IMO.

    • anon

      The best way to get them home with the lowest risk is overnight them with a standard package carrier. Obviously, wrap the edibles up in a boring package before you go in the store. It will be fine. Signed, the ex gf of a cannabis farm owner who did this allllll the time.

    • anon

      You’re asking for advice on how you can transport drugs across state lines, specifically asking about how you can bring them to a state where they’re illegal? Really?

        • Anon

          I like how we poo-poo people making up their minds re getting vaxxed and masked mandates but as soon as we find laws we don’t like, it’s totes fine to ignore. Felony, smelony.

          • Anon

            This is obtuse. We aren’t pro-vaccine or mask mandates because we love laws. It’s because it’s the right thing to do. There are a lot of immoral laws out there. I’m at peace with ignoring them as long as I’ve mitigated the risk of enforcement.

    • Anon

      So, it’s definitely not legal to do this and I bet a bunch of people are going to jump on you for even suggesting it, but I have done this a few times. I was going from one state where it was legal to another, though. TSA is not actively looking for this, but I can’t say for certain what happens if they go through your bag and find it as part of a different search.

    • Anon

      Do services like FedEx even accept packages from places like this? Talk about the in-house jobs I’m glad not to have.

      • Cycling ‘Rettes

        What? Yes, FedEx ships from Denver. What are you talking about? If you’re talking about a cannabis shop mailing it, no, they aren’t going to do this if it’s illegal. They aren’t going to risk their state licensure for some lady from the east coast who wants to take a package of edibles home. How people move small amounts of drugs regularly is to overnight it themselves like I said above. FedEx, et al, all know it happens. Trust me. In this case edibles are on the low end of things that are detectable drug wise. It’s not like she is sending ripe smelling buds!

    • Anon

      I have friends of friends (ahem) who’ve switched some out in a normal breathmint container and carried on a plane with no issue. TSA is there primarily for security / terrorism threats, not drugs, though they are obligated to call the police if they find drugs.

      • Anonymous

        I have a comment in mod. I did something similar. I put some in my carryon bag along with some other legit snacks. I brought back some chocolate and gummies. They look like regular candy.

    • Anonymous

      You may need a drivers license for the state you are buying them in. I wouldn’t do it. As someone who sees those drug sniffing beagles at the airport all the time..just no.

    • anon

      I brought some back from California to Ohio. They look like candy so I put them in my carry-on bag along with some other snacks I had.

    • Carla

      I’ve brought them back by train many times but not by plane. Just make sure they don’t smell and are wrapped up, and remove any obvious packaging.

    • Anon for this

      I debated even posting this, but I did this on accident once. I’ve lived in recreational, medicinal and no-tolerance states, and after a week in a recreational one I just hopped on the plan with a half-used bag of gummies. Nothing happened, but it seems like a silly reason to potentially go to jail and lose the ability to fly.

      • Anon

        Totally agree. I fully support legalized marijuana and absolutely wish they would just legalize it at the federal level. I use gummies (I have asthma so do not smoke anything) periodically when I need to mellow out; they are legal in my state and have been for some time. That all being said, my personal choice is that I do not want to have to go to my employer and ask for time off to go to court because I (intentionally or inadvertently) transported a federally illegal drug across state lines, and I got busted. I just feel like that’s a bad look for me, professionally. In addition to which, my husband has a security clearance and me getting into that kind of trouble could create problems for him in his next clearance investigation. For those folks who are saying “I have done this and never gotten caught” – that’s great, but there’s still a non-zero chance of lengthy and embarrassing legal entanglements if someone does get caught. As we’ve seen repeatedly on this board, everyone has different levels of risk tolerance. If some folks feel like they want to ride the line on this, okay. Some of us don’t want to do that, and that should also be okay.

    • anonforthis

      I’ll bite and be your friendly pot educator. Friends who visit me from a non recreational state to my recreational state tend to come with a shopping list. Well sealed edibles that have not been opened have never been an issue for them. I would recommend checked luggage. No you cannot order them by mail into a state where it is not legal. Yes you can buy them in a state that it is legal in with an out of state ID. Yes there are risks, and you need to be okay with those risks. Also if your prior edible usage consisted of homemade pot cookies in college, be aware that the professional stuff is 10 plus times stronger and plan accordingly.

      • Anon

        The 10x stronger is what I find so scary. Like probably won’t try (at best: I eat 10x the Doritos as I did prior; I certainly don’t need that).

        • Anon

          This is ridiculous. The professional stuff has standards it has to meet and at least in my state, the producers have to to do regular, rigorous testing. What you get from a retail store will be consistent and you will know how much you’re getting, especially with edibles. Start small if you don’t know what your personal tolerance is.

      • BeenThatGuy

        This.

        OP, you might want to double check your state laws. It could be decriminalized in your state and you don’t even know it. It’s decriminalized in 31 states but only 18 states, and DC, have legal recreational use.

        • Anonymous

          Even if it’s decriminalized in your state, it’s still a federal felony to transport across state lines.

      • anon

        OP here: thank you, this is a very useful comment! I probably won’t do it, but I appreciate that you are kind in your approach to responding.

    • Anone

      Ahem…I’ve done this – a few times – with no problem. My husband has done this too. Last time we went to CO he came back with a large amount of gummies because they have the fast-acting kind that are hard to find where we live. We both have medical prescriptions in our home state, but I did it even before I had medical.

  21. Anon

    Low stakes question – I am making skinnytaste creamed spinach and not sure how to eat it/ what to have it with. Welcoming ideas!

  22. Anon

    I think I’m about to buy a large “flat weave” cotton rug for my living room (from Hook and Loom if that’s relevant). Is it hard to vacuum such a lightweight rug, does the vacuum suck up the rug and get sort of stuck on it? I had this issue on a very lightweight carpet before and it was annoying so I’m just wondering if “flat weave” carpets have the same issue. Would a carpet pad help?

    • Anon

      Yes, and no, to answer your questions. You can try tacking it down, but that’s always an issue with a thin rug.

    • anon

      I’ve owned only one cotton rug and it is a total PITA to vacuum for the reason you mentioned. I doubt a pad would help.

    • Cat

      Yes, but FWIW we bought a vacuum that has several different strengths of sucking power, and it’s awesome. Like, we can vacuum dusty curtains on the lower settings. Bissell is the mftr.

  23. Cycling ‘Rettes

    Calling all cycling ‘Rettes!

    I have been riding on flat pedals on my gravel bike for about the last year. After 70 miles in wet gravel/mud, I am ready to upgrade to clipless pedals. I am going to go with 2-bolt. There are so many dang options! I don’t want to spend a complete fortune, but don’t want to go so cheap that I have to replace sooner than with a quality pair (I think though that the cleats are what will need to be replaced more often?). Anyway, I am overwhelmed by the choices. I know this comes down to personal choice/feel, but having even 5 options to pick from vs the whole internet’s worth of options would be helpful.

    HALP!

    • Anonymous

      Go to your local bike shop and have them make a recommendation. Normally I would just pick whatever is the 2nd or 3rd cheapest.

    • Anon

      SPD-style cleats with recessed cycling shoes (usually mountain bike). Easiest to walk in.

      • Anonymous

        I use flat pedals myself, but am considering clipless and my top priority would be shoes that are easy to walk in. If you mountain bike on hard trails, you WILL be walking – may as well be comfortable.

      • Anonymous

        This. There really isn’t much to decide on. Do you want a shoe that looks more like a street shoe (good if you’re running errands), or more cycling specific. The beauty of spd is you can get either. Probably a good idea to go up a size from what feels okay in the store. Feet swell after a while (about 2 hours for me) and cycling shoes are a bit stiffer/more constricting than sneakers. Numb, painful feet are no fun, especially if you just spent a bunch of $$$ on the new shoes.

    • Minnie Beebe

      I’ve always liked Time mountain bike pedals. They have a nice and secure two-bar style engagement which performs very well in mud/snow. The MTB pedals are double-sided, which I would recommend if you’re new to clipless.

      Good cycling shoes are worth every penny, but you’ll need to be prepared to spend LOTS of pennies. Sidi shoes are The Best, and are wickedly expensive, but they do last a long time and can survive wetness without the glued seams falling apart. You don’t need to go with Sidi if you’re starting out, but also don’t cheap out on the shoes. A stiff sole is going to be a better, more comfortable shoe for riding– if they flex easily in your hands, don’t buy them. (With plat pedals/sneakers, you can get away with some flexibility because the pedal area is larger– once you switch to little clipless pedals, you benefit from a stiffer sole to distribute the pressure.)

      Practice clipping in/out on a grass/soft surface. Good luck!

    • Cornellian

      I have simple MTB style ones, even though I’m not a mountain biker. The other side is a flat pedal with pretty aggressive teeth, which is nice if I’m just getting around town or feel more comfortable not clipped in or someone is using my bike. I can’t find mine online but i might start with something very entry-level and donate them if you like it and move up: https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwig-NWjpMXzAhUxCecKHXLBBQQYABAOGgJwdg&sig=AOD64_0edEo9KypKQmjITw2dPuZ327RN-A&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi89dCjpMXzAhWHJTQIHVOrC4IQ2CkIngk&adurl=

    • Anon

      This is a place I don’t go really fancy – I just use SPD M520s. I do very long distance gravel events and haven’t had them wear out yet. I have them on my gravel race bike, mtb, and my single speed.

      Shoes are the place to spend money, IMO…

  24. Anonnymouse

    Interesting interview about the culture of the “9.9%” (vs the often mentioned 1%)

    I imagine many of the readers here would fall into that category of earnings, but may not necessarily subscribe to the culture attributed to it. Some indicators mentioned include buying into the meritocracy of life, “optimizing” children, overwork, not feeling wealthy – when they actually are – due to comparison with others. No judgements or thoughts from me, just curious what others think:

    https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22673605/upper-middle-class-meritocracy-matthew-stewart

    An interesting quote from the interview, re: the intensity of child-rearing in this group:
    “I think the driving motivation is fear, and I think that fear is well-grounded. People intuit that in this meritocratic game, the odds are getting increasingly long of succeeding. They work very hard to stack the odds in their kids’ favor, but they know as the odds get longer, they may not succeed.
    That’s coupled with another one of the traits of this class, which is a lack of imagination. The source of the fear is also this inability to imagine a life that doesn’t involve getting these high-status credentials and having a high-status occupation. This life plan looks good, and it certainly looked good in the past when the odds were more sensible. But it’s not a great deal. It’s something that isn’t just harmful to the people who don’t make it, it’s also harmful to the people who get involved and do make it.”

    • Anonymous

      I disagree with the premise that these people are motivated by the idea of “meritocracy.” The whole reason that upper-middle-class parents feel they have to “optimize” their kids is that they understand that life isn’t a meritocracy. It’s about who you know and what advantages you’ve been given early in life, not about talent and hard work, so they try to give their kids all the advantages they possibly can.

      I also take issue with the idea that the 9.9% should just stop striving and accept a different kind of life. That would be reasonable if we had universal child care and high-quality preschool and decent public schools for all and universal health insurance, so that everyone could live a decent life even without earning tons of money. But we don’t. Only a select few will be able to afford to pay off their own educations, pay for halfway decent child care, save adequately for retirement, and score jobs with health insurance that actually protects them against financial ruin.

      • anonshmanon

        Agreed, I find the whole meritocracy lens of this whole article to be distracting and not useful. And agreed again, it is perfectly natural to want your kids to have an equivalent standard of living as yourself.
        What resonates with me is the tendency to focus on what we cannot afford or attain, over the many things we can. Having this deficit understanding of one’s own situation is often an excuse for making choices that uphold the status quo and gate keep others out of the spaces we occupy. It helps to rationalize these choices if I can perceive myself as a victim, forced to play the game to protect my status, and not as a person with leverage and options. The upper middle class has so much influence through their cumulative wealth and status, but also the sheer fact that the top 10% have 100 times the votes of the top 0.1%.

    • Anonymous

      So I’m going to get flamed for this but I think there is a balance between personal responsibility and socioeconomic factors and while bootstrapping is too far to one side the victim mentality is too far to the other. DH are by far the most successful members of both our families and it’s a lot of just making good choices, even though our family thinks we were handed our success (from who we’ll never know, because it clearly wasn’t them).

      • Anonymous

        +1. I agree with this. Some liberals take the victim mentality to the extreme and some conservatives take the bootstrapping mentality to the other extreme. It HAS to be okay to talk about making good choices in life because otherwise we’re all just f*cked because of what we were born into.

      • anon

        My husband is from a very blue collar family. His mother and aunts have such disdain for anyone who tries to climb up the socio economic ladder. When his sister decided to become a CRNA, it was “oh, being an RN wasn’t good enough?” Anyone who wants to pursue a career outside of policing, nursing, or a trade is “too good” and “doesn’t remember where they came from.”
        His mom spends all of her disposable income at Kohl’s and then complains that she’s in credit card debt and blames it all on “rich people” (but of course she voted for Trump)

        • Anonymous

          Haha I think we’re from the same family. Those are the same talking points and issues!

          • Cornellian

            Mine is like that, too. I’m pretty left-wing but hearing my idiot able-bodied 30 year old white cousins bitch about immigrants taking their jobs after they do 3 months in jail for their ninth petty crime is… trying.

        • Anon

          One thing I hate is that my ILs treat any sort of hard work or ambition as something horrible that you inflict on yourself. Like you could eat packages of Oreos watching Hallmark Channel but g-d forbid you study for the CFA. “You poor thing; you work so hard1” No, working hard was when I worked the grocery section of Wal*Mart and stood on my feet all day and got stuff spilled on me and dirty all day at work. They inherited a paid-off house, but their kids and grandkid will likely have to live with them to stay in the area b/c with a high school degree and no drive, they aren’t going to get very far.

        • Anon

          I hated this “lobster tank” mentality when I was young.

          But I have a lot of mixed feelings about it now. I cannot really feel at home among people who generally do think they’re just superior to blue collar workers. I don’t relate to the credit card thing though; my family would not have used a credit card, not even to build credit; they were more envelope budget, debt-averse people which is part of what kept them from pursuing education. I feel like there’s so much missed potential in my family, but also that they would be truly miserable leading middle class lives. I hope it worked out better for your husband.

    • Anonymous

      Haven’t read this article yet though read the original 9.9% articles in the Atlantic. My view – I take offense at the criticism of the 9.9%. We’ve largely started out in good spots – middle class parents often, decent public schools, parents who paid for some/all of school, but parents who maybe weren’t the HIGHEST earning – and we’ve built on that by becoming drs, lawyers etc. So why shouldn’t we try to keep that spot by buying the homes in the best suburbs and let our kids build off of us? Because it isn’t fair to society? Well life isn’t fair so why should I harm my own life or my kids’ lives for “fairness”? Some of my lawyer coworkers are doing it – living in DC and sending their kids to local public schools etc. which are woefully underfunded – to show how “woke” and inclusive they are. Good for them but I would never. I mean when immigrants do this – one generation setting up the next one – we look at it with such pride, look at what they accomplished – dad’s a janitor who doesn’t speak English and his kid went to 4 year college. Yet when people do it to go from middle/upper middle class to 9.9% suddenly we’re taking up all the resources and opportunities??

      • Anon

        I have to agree. The author hyper-focused on the idea that all upper-middle-class families have nannies and those nannies spend all their time “optimizing” the kids. We are in the top 10% of incomes nationally and in the top 5% of incomes for our area. I don’t know anyone who has (or has had) a nanny; we certainly couldn’t afford it. We sent our kid to a perfectly-good-but-not-spectacular daycare that was largely chosen due to its proximity to our workplaces, and then we sent him to public charter schools. His current charter high school is a Title I school with so many kids who qualify for free lunch that they’ve just started offering free meals to everyone who attends. Not all of us live in the hermetically-sealed upper-middle-class enclaves, completely separate and out of touch from anyone poorer than us. That’s a nice fiction for the author to create to support her fairly specious points, but it doesn’t hold up against real-world data, methinks.

        I also have to say I don’t see the relentless “child optimization” playing out in real life like it does in the media. As a member of the 9.9%, let me just say we have nowhere near enough money to bribe anyone into getting our son into college, unless they’d be willing to take my 2013 Hyundai Sonata with the dented front bumper as a bribe. I actually have far more conversations with fellow parents – coworkers, professional contacts, friends, etc. – about not overscheduling/overpressuring our teen kids, and how we can get them to stop putting so much pressure on themselves. I don’t believe that “opportunities are getting more scarce” and so therefore I have to optimize my kid for success at every turn. Actually, with the way demographics are going, we’re going to have more need for workers than we’ll have skilled workers to fill jobs. I try to have an abundance mentality: I believe in the future there will be opportunities for everyone to do meaningful work that is fairly compensated (which is not the same as, everyone will be able to do work they love and get rich at it). I am more interested in my son doing something that fulfills him and provides him a decent living than I am in him getting into a career where he makes more money than we do. I also feel that financially, we have plenty – not as much as some, but much more than most – and if we don’t end up much better off than we are right now as we get older, that’s fine. We’ll survive. However – not much of a surprise that an online publication wants to amplify artificially-constructed cultural/societal divisions for clicks; that’s their bread and butter these days. How would we know who to be mad at if the media didn’t tell us? And I say that as a die-hard liberal.

    • Anon

      “buying into the meritocracy of life, ‘optimizing’ children, overwork, not feeling wealthy – when they actually are –” does describe a lot of the people here.

      • Anon

        I don’t have kids but identify with a lot of it, and it describes a lot of people I know, including people who seem to care about inequality and may even live in a diverse neighborhood but have nannies and send their kids to private schools.

      • Monday

        +1. I was raised into this SES bracket and am now mindfully falling out of it (downwardly mobile). I feel alive.

        • Anonymous

          What does this mean – you’re trying to get out of the 9.9% and not live in the good school districts and accumulate wealth? Can I ask why?

      • Anon

        Only poors neglect to send a nanny on an airplane to pick up a puppy at the breeder.

  25. Anonymous

    If you want a smile today, look up the “Between Friends” comic today – about women over fifty.

  26. Anonymous

    What’s your initial reaction to this. Hired as a 5th year associate at a law firm; 8 years out of school and in house my whole career. Specifically hired as a 5th year so I wouldn’t have the pressure of making partner in a year will get a longer look etc. No business generation mentioned at the time of hiring. Now 4 weeks on the job, I’m being asked to reach out to the GC of my prior large employer, make connections with the firm. I understand why but part of me is thinking – if my contacts were so important why wasn’t I hired as partner or counsel? And I’m also thinking if I make the introduction here and say 20k worth of business comes in once, isn’t it easy to “forget” that or “downplay” that some 3 years from now saying – yeah we she made one intro for us but so what, nothing big came from it; whereas if that came in the year I was up, it could at least be like – well she recently brought in 20k worth of business.

    Is this just what’s expected of a firm 5th year (this is regional biglaw) or does something seem off here?

    • Cat

      midlevel and senior associates are typically involved in business development. I’m not surprised your firm would want you to try to keep the relationship “warm” when you just left.

    • Anon

      Nothing seems off. You should not need to be nudged to make connections (although the GC seems a bit much — I’d more reach out to peers or one-step-aboves). That is something you should get in the habit of doing. Also, 20K is not really remarkable, more like a good start. Also, no, you shouldn’t be brought in as partner since at this point you have potential at best vs anything quantifiable. I think you are ideally moving to a point where you can point to at least 6-figures of work you bring in to really be a person who has the economics to stay in for the long-haul (also depending on what work of others you can handle at a senior level; the magic to a firm is bringing $ in the door; doing the work is less magical from a career progression perspective). 5 figures of work is a good start, but it ought not to be a one-time thing at your level.

      Law, and every job at a certain level, is a sales job. I know they didn’t say it, but it’s true.

    • Anonymous

      This doesn’t seem off to me; it seems like a smart decision for everyone. Your goal should be to develop your former employer as a long-standing client of the firm. If you can get $20,000 of business this year, the goal should be to expand it over time so that the year you make partner, they are a consistent $100,000 of business. (I just made up these numbers, BTW.) Business generation is a critical part of private practice, and partnership decisions are made not just on how much you brought in as a one off but on your long term capacity and potential for developing and sustaining business.

    • Cornellian

      Seems pretty standard. It may take years to establish that connection, and I imagine your firm has a profit sharing arrangement. You should probably ask about that to make sure you’re getting credit.

      • Anon

        And no matter what the system, track every dollar your initiative brings into the firm (sort of a but-for causation).

    • Anonymous

      Ok maybe this is just my view from biglaw (not regional) – obviously keep the relationship warm but be weary and keep the relationship FOR YOURSELF. At my firm there were MANY junior partners with no book who’d see an unsuspecting associate with no firm experience and try to do this is a – introduce me, WE will develop business with this client and my firm had not profit sharing with associates, so associates could not get origination credit, it had to go to a partner. And that same partner years down the line – esp if the relationship generated some business but not millions of dollars – could easily be like eh what did she ever really do for us as he voted no on partnership. So I guess I’m not jumping on the bandwagon of OMG yes OP is so dumb for not knowing this; you obviously need contacts and business generation but be careful with sharing that.

      • Anon

        I would only add to this as a counterpoint, that at my firm associates can generate business, and grow it and protect it as theirs without a partner sign off at all (as long as conflicts is clear, etc). Just know what system you are dealing with.

      • Anon

        I would echo this as well. It depends on whether your firm gives origination credit. My last firm did not. And when I brought in business, I had to have a partner on it. When we were on the matter, he constantly tried to undermine me in front of the client, and subtly brag about himself. That partner ended up sabotaging my prospect for partnership by claiming that I worked harder on the matters I brought in than his matter. Depending on the firm culture and ppl, it certainly can happen. I’m just glad that the partner I picked was a type that I knew my in-house contact disliked, so even though he tried really hard to get that client, it was never going to happen without my help.

  27. Anon for this

    I’m listening to a podcast on Jerry Falwell jr and the pool boy scandal (It’s called In God We Lust) and I don’t get it. It sounds like Jerry enjoyed watching his wife sleep with this other guy and he not only watched and taped it over 3 years, but he also invited the guy to family events where his kids were present. Is this just another form of polyamory? What did he get out of it?

    • Anon

      It’s 2021, do we still question why people seek s e x u a l satisfaction is ways that you personally don’t?

      • anonshmanon

        This. People have preferences. I don’t get what people get out of eating shrimps or mountain biking, but as long as they don’t make me do it…shrug.

      • Anonymous

        Because those people often try to control others while being major hypocrites themselves. That’s why it matters. Hypocrites should be exposed and ridiculed when they get caught doing something they’ve preached against in others.

      • Ellen

        I think that to each his own, and if aguy likes to have someone else fornicate instead of him, that is his busness. He may have had other reasons himself for not having s-x once he got older. I know that my Grandma Trudy told me that her husband stopped having sex after he was 65 because he did not want to have prostate problems.

    • Anonymous

      Because powerful evangelical men are not about family values but about maintaining power over women.

      • Anon

        That is a gross over-generalization. And I am not an evangelical.

        Jerry Falwell Jr.’s kink is not my kink and I do not pretend to understand it. If he was not such a massive hypocrite, I would not think it was anyone’s business except the people he shares it with as long as everyone is a consenting adult. Because he IS a massive hypocrite so I do not have a problem with him being dragged through the mud for the sheer, overwhelming, blatant hypocrisy.

    • Anon

      I listened to that same podcast. It wasn’t clear to me (and likely never will be clear to anyone, because the Falwells deny the whole situation) what the motivation was – I think it was probably more a fetish than polyamory. I was also pretty fascinated by the Falwells inviting the third party to family gatherings but then remembered that for some folks, fear of exposure/getting caught is part of the fetishistic excitement and maybe they just wanted to ratchet the stakes up to 11.

      Bottom line, if Jerry Falwell Jr. had been a middle manager at Midwestern tire manufacturer, and not the president of Liberty University and a tireless advocate for “conservative values” (HAhahahahahaha) and a supporter of Trump because Trump was supposedly going to turn the country back towards God again (or whatever TF) I wouldn’t care at all what he and his wife did in their bedroom with whatever consenting adults had also chosen to be there. I don’t want people judging my proclivities and so I don’t judge other people’s. Whatever people are into, within the bounds of consent, they should just go for it. Let their freak flags fly; have a great time. But because Jerry and his wife were trying to hold themselves up as these pristine moral arbiters, and paragons of Christianity and Christian values, the whole situation is extremely delicious and I hope they make the podcast into a Netflix miniseries.

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