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Updated: Aug 14, 2019 278 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Tweed Moto Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This collarless jacket has everything I’m looking for — an interesting cut, a fun color, and it’s machine-washable! I love the idea of a traditional tweed combined with a more modern moto jacket cut. I’d wear this over a white dress for the rest of the summer and transition to grey and navy this fall. If you want to go all-out with the pink/red tweed, there’s also a matching skirt, but I think I’d be more inclined to wear these as separates. The jacket is $59.99, marked down from $160, and available in regular sizes 00–16 and petite 00–14. Tweed Moto Jacket Eloquii has a tweed moto in sizes 14–26. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 9.10.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Cobra

    Is this a good idea or a stupid/possibly illegal idea? I am starting a new job soon, but have a 2 week gap between jobs. A friend in HR told me that I could consider not signing up for Cobra unless something happens since it is retroactive. (I’m in good health with no ongoing medical needs.) Is there a chance I’ll leave myself open to tax issues if I do this due to the health insurance coverage requirement? Anything else I’m not thinking of?

    Last time I switched jobs, I do remember it taking over a week to get Cobra signed up anyway, so this recommendation seems to make sense?

    • The original Scarlett

      Check your coverage, most runs through the end of the month and doesn’t end on your last day – the 2 weeks may not matter.

    • Anon

      COBRA does apply retroactively. The catch is that you have to sign up within sixty days and pay the premiums for the time from which your old insurance ends until you sign up in order to be eligible.

      I think you should be fine for tax purposes regardless.

    • Anon

      It’s not illegal. Most people don’t sign up for Cobra for a 2 week gap. The tax issues come when you don’t have health insurance for a longer period (I believe 3 months)

    • AFT

      This is a super common thing to do, and I did this for a two week gap between jobs (despite being a very risk averse lawyer!)
      Make sure you have everything ready so that if you need to elect COBRA, you can right away. And agree with the 60 day timing – but often not an issue if your new benefits kick in before then.

    • Anon

      Tax forms only ask if you had coverage at any point during a given month, so a two week gap won’t even show up. Plus wasn’t 2018 the last year to have penalties for not having coverage?

    • Aggie

      Not illegal and actually pretty common. In 2017, I had a 6 week gap between Job 1 and coverage start for Job 2. However, because I was enrolled in health insurance part of every month, I did not pay a penalty. I decided to take the risk as the COBRA premiums were more than the tax penalty at the time.

    • MagicUnicorn

      What reason is there to preemptively sign up for Cobra? I was under the impression that you hold the paperwork and never actually sign up if you don’t use it, but that if you do need it you can sign on retroactively as long as it is within that 60-day window.

      • Anonymous

        The only real risk is if you were unable to sign up in that time period – think “hit by a bus” scenario.

  2. Irish Midori

    I’m sure this has been asked before, but has anyone used thredUP’s “Clean Out Kit”? I’ve been using a local consignment store to get rid of clothes slowly from a big purge, but it has so many rules (15 items per week, on hangers, only dropped off one day per week during certain hours, etc.), that’s I’m tempted by the alternative. At this point I think I’m ready to make a smaller return just to have it all done. What should I know about selling with thredUP before I go there?

    • Anonome

      Selling on ThredUp is a complete rip-off. They pay pennies for your stuff, then turn around and sell it for a fortune. People have even claimed to have items rejected, then show up for sale on the site anyway. Once I found articles and reviews about how they exploit sellers, I stopped using them.

      • BB

        Is it worth it if I would otherwise just throw the clothes in a Goodwill bin though? I’m moving and am going to clean out the closet. If ThredUp is basically just like donating to Goodwill, I wouldn’t mind getting a few extra bucks.

        • Anonymous

          Given the stories here, you may be better off getting a tax deduction for the Goodwill donation. You can give value to everything you donate, not just what Thred Up agrees to pay you a pittance for.

        • Anonymous

          Do you want to do business with a company that profits from exploiting others?

          • BB

            Umm…so I understand all the negative feedback here, but honestly, they don’t seem any more “exploitative” than any other profit making business? They’re not running sweatshops or anything. The worst they seem to do is not pay sellers enough. Maybe they are taking pieces and telling sellers that they can’t sell it (like the poster’s experience below), but that’s not really proven.

      • Al

        +1. It’s good if you just want to easily get rid of stuff and maybe make a little money on top of it, but what they pay is very low compared to their prices, and they reject things that seem right within their guidelines.

      • The original Scarlett

        This. The first time I used it, they paid around $200 for my bag of stuff, the next time? 24 cents. Literally. I’m not looking to make money on reselling my stuff, but that was ridiculous. Now I just give things away via Facebook free groups.

        • Anonymous

          Similar experience. The first few bags I sent in I got between $65 and $100…the last two I sent in I got $6. We need the tax deduction from donating more than I need the $6 in store credit from ThredUp. I still buy from them, but I don’t sell to them…which makes me wonder how long their model is going to be sustainable, if eventually no one sends them clothes to sell.

      • Anon

        This. I got a dollar for a bag filled with new with tags clothes. I looked on their page and they were selling my items for $10-20 EACH. I’d rather give it away directly to an individual so a company doesn’t make a huge profit off my stuff without giving me a cut of it. ThredUP is one of the biggest scams out there, imo.

    • Anonymous

      Agree re Thred up. It’s kind of a scam and the pennies on the dollar they pay for your clothes are hard to get out of them. I wouldn’t do it again.

    • Abby

      I’ve used it, but only for things that I was going to donate anyway so whatever I make is just a bonus. A lot of my clothes are from college, nothing nice and not really work wear and I’ve made about $40. My friend is at about $80. You can ship your own box with a prepaid label from them too now.

    • Anonymous

      Just donate your clothes. No one wants them. ThredUP often doesn’t even accept them for sale.

    • In-House in Houston

      You should try Poshmark. I’ve sold a ton of clothes, shoes, handbags and it’s really easy. Once an item sells you download a shipping label and tape it to the package. The buyer typically pays for shipping unless you offer free shipping. Yes, you have to put a little more effort in to take the photos, but the app is VERY easy to use. But I agree with the previous poster that said Thred-Up is a rip-off. If you have name brand stuff and price it right, it’ll sell. If you need a referral code for Poshmark, you can use mine (merrpg). If you ever buy something you’ll get $5 or $10 off your first purchase and I’ll get the same. Give it a try!

    • Anon

      Thanks everyone for commenting here. I sent in a clean out bag with lots of Eileen Fisher, some vintage, and they emailed thanks for your donation. So apparently none of it went up for sale. I assumed they didn’t find it sale quality.

      Just for fun I just went on the site and searched Eileen Fisher in my size and saw two items that I am 99% sure are mine – they are unusual enough that it would be an enormous coincidence if someone else sent them in.

      And I never received a tax receipt for my “donation.”

      • anon

        I donated to a local consignment shop and was told my items were not qualified for sale…..I later learned that the staff picks through the bags and takes what they like before they put them out in the store. These shops and online stores are so sketchy…just donate.

        • anon

          I don’t know…once you drop off the items for them to ‘evaluate’, it was out of my hands. They are only hurting their own sales if they cherry pick the good stuff vs. putting it out for sale.

      • anon

        If it’s professional clothes, I donate to Dress for Success….my dry cleaner takes them, cleans them for free and ships them over to Dress for Success.

      • Anonymous

        Ugh. I agree. I had some luck at ThredUp with my first clean out bag, but items sent since then have basically disappeared into a black hole. I want ThredUp to work for environmental reasons, but not like this.

        • Anonymous

          This. It was great at first. My first clean out bag (about 2 years ago) made me over $100. The second, which was some similar stuff in similar condition but also some nicer items given my success the first time, netted me about $8. I think they’ve changed (and not in a good way) as they’ve gotten bigger.

          • Anon

            I’m Anon at 9:39. One of my colleagues recommended Thred Up to me because she made $400 selling an entire work wardrobe that had become too small for her when she gained weight. That’s why I did the clean out bag. But they “donated” (i.e. stole) everything.

    • Suburban

      I had pretty good luck. I traded a bunch of high end stuff that I never wore for some “new to me” workhorse items via their site last year. I basically got a free new capsule wardrobe for free with stuff
      I was going to donate anyway. Caveat that the high end stuff was gifted to me by a wealthy stylish relative so I really wasn’t mourning the sunk cost.

    • RR

      I use it all the time. I generally end up between $40-80 per bag, although I’ve been more or less. I’ve been purging old work wear and nicer kids clothes over the past few years. I would otherwise just be giving it to Goodwill, so it’s nice to get some money for the little bit of nicer stuff, but I’m not upset if it’s a low $ bag. And, it’s so much easier than taking stuff to consignment or listing individually that it’s worth it to me.

    • Parfait

      I miss LikeTwice. They were so good. Didn’t pay all that much but enough that it was worth it to me. And they always gave the measurements of every garment. I never got anything that didn’t fit. It was run like an actual business with standards.

      Poshmark is just the wild west out there, no consistency, a million different sellers. I have a friend who shops it all the time and she continually has issues with sellers not shipping, losing the item they posted, etc etc etc.

  3. thehungryaccountant

    Paging large appliances from last night-
    You absolutely should ask all of your neighbors how they were able to get their appliances in. They probably have a local recommendation that would help your situation immensely.

    That being said, I have a feeling that even with a large delivery window- most things will arrive between the 10-4pm slot. Good luck!

    • Anonymous

      Yes and even if they arrive at 9:15 oh well. Give your doorman a $20, it will be fine.

  5. Anon

    Does anyone know if Allbirds ever go on sale? Really tempted by a pair but not the price.

    • The original Scarlett

      I’ve never seen them in sale, but they are worth every penny.

    • anon

      Love mine as well. Took me a minute to get used to the shape of the insole compared to my normal sneaker, but I love that I can throw them in the wash.
      Have held up for 2 years really well.

    • In House Lobbyist

      I have 4 pairs and have never seen them to go on sale. They are worth it and I will likely buy more when my colors come back in stock.

  6. Anon

    Completely random question, but can anyone recommend any antique stores or flea markets along I-81 in Pennsylvania? I’m driving through there tomorrow and would like to choose a place or two that are really worth stopping for. (Otherwise I’ll just wing it – the fun of a road trip :) ). Thanks!

    • anon

      Hi! If you are coming through Pennsylvania on 81, Chambersburg, Shippensburg and Carlisle are known for antique stores and flea market….these towns are accessible from 81 in South Central Pennsylvania. Black Rose Antiques and Collectibles in Chambersburg is a large antique/flea market. Also….Chambersburg Antique And Flea Market. Hope this helps….

  7. J

    Where do you shop for cool jewelry? I’m looking for a long pendant to dress up a black dress for a wedding next month. I tend to like more simple, architectural pieces but am looking for something with some impact. Budget of up to a few hundred dollars. I’m in DC if folks have local suggestions. Thanks!

  8. Free stuff

    Is giving away free things on Craigslist still a thing (especially for Boston area)? I need to get rid of some furniture/small appliances but haven’t been on Craigslist for a decade.

    • Tularyn

      Check FreeCycle.org for your community group. I’ve been able to give away a lot of things that were too much hassle to take to Goodwill but not worth trying to sell (excess hangers, clothing racks, small furniture, etc.). You post, get replies to your email, and can update the post as “claimed” when the stuff is gone.

  9. Anonome

    Can anyone recommend a work fashion inspo blog or ‘gram that tends to avoid skirts and heels?

    I want to improve my frumpy work wardrobe, but am limited by safety dress requirements (full-length pants, sturdy shoes with a non-skid sole).

    Anything sleek or moto-inspired would be ideal.

    • anonymous

      What about your wardrobe is making you feel frumpy? I would start with making sure you clothes fit properly, which may require tailoring. I would start with a few great pairs of pants. Depending on your style, maybe straight leg ponte knit pants. Then add a blouse or top in a fun pattern or color and top with a cardigan or blazer.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Following because I’m moving towards this. My ideal style is somewhere between “editor of an architecture magazine” and “heroine racing through a spaceship to avert disaster.” So, functional but still cool.

      • Anonome

        I would define my goal as “Rosa Diaz from B99 meets Jennifer Aniston” but I get where you’re coming from, and I’m totally down with it.

    • Anonymous

      Yes! You should follow bcrladinaj on Instagram. I think she still has a blog but she seems to mostly post on instagram right now.

  10. Anon

    I love the look of jackets like this, especially over suit-dresses but I have a big chest and this style always makes me look boxier than I am. The model here seems to have a waist in this jacket. Is this brand/piece-dependent or does anyone have tips on how to pull off these jackets when you still want it known you have a waist and hourglass figure?

    • Panda Bear

      Similar body type here. I find it helps if the jacket has a more of a peplum shape than a truly boxy cut.

    • Anon

      You could get them tailored at the waist. Jackets always look boxy on me, too. I think they pin them on a lot of models.

  11. Anonymous

    Logistical question for those who have lateraled to another market: I want to lateral to CA from NYC biglaw. I haven’t started the process yet but am thinking through things now.

    For those of you who’ve made a move to a totally different geographic market, did you request vacation for the week you did interviews, or make up some excuse? My firm doesn’t have an office in CA, so I can’t just work out of the local office. People in my group typically request vacation several, several weeks and months in advance, so it’s hard for me to picture asking for a week off less than a month out.

    • Anonymous

      When I was taking the bar in new state and my firm didn’t know, I was planning on just requesting vacation, and another associate happened to request the same week right before me, so boss wasn’t going to let me. I ultimately just told them what I was doing so she’d let me take the week. This only worked because my boss liked me and that firm churned through associates anyway so they didn’t really care if I was looking to leave (especially since it was to another state entirely). When I was actually interviewing, I managed to schedule interviews on pre-planned vacation time (around the holidays, when I was just going to visit family, so it wasn’t a real vacation that I cared about missing). I think you probably just have to make up an excuse.

    • Anon

      Do you have family in CA? If so, you’re “visiting your family” which people see differently than vacation. Vacation conjures up an image of sitting on a beach in Hawaii and is something that should be planned well in advance, while visiting family may need to be done on short notice due to an illness or other personal issue. Either way, you don’t take a week off. A Big Law interview is one day. I’d ask for it to be scheduled on a Monday, fly out on the weekend so you’re well rested for the interview, and fly back on a redeye that night so you’re back at work on Tuesday morning. Requesting a day off on short notice is very different than requesting a week off.

    • I did this

      I lateraled to the Bay Area legal market last year. My previous job didn’t require months of notice before vacation, but I did need to schedule my trip out before I had interviews lined up (I used vacation time). It made me nervous, but it actually turned out to be super helpful to be able to say in cover letters and networking emails/phone calls that I would be in SF on X dates. When you’re moving to a new market, the biggest concern your potential future employers have is that you’re not serious about the move. Telling them you’ve already booked a trip is a good thing. I also got additional interviews once I was actually in town that week. If you want to post a burner email I’m happy to chat about the process! Also, as an aside, practicing law in CA is insanely better than NYC BigLaw. I’m so happy I made the move (and I actually liked my previous firm and was sad to leave!). Good luck!!

      • OP

        Hi! Yes, I was also considering whether I should just set a week aside, but then like, how far ahead do I start interviewing? Would love to chat more with you about it, thank you SO much for offering. My burner email is: sunnycorp lawyer a t g m a i l.

        I also like my current firm, but think it’s going to be the right choice in the end!

        • OP

          lol oops, obviously, no space between “sunnycorp” and “lawyer” in the burner email: sunnycorplawyer a t g m a i l. Thank you again!

  12. WHBM sizing?

    Love this pick! Does anyone have comments on sizing for White House Black Market? Particularly for petites? I’m a 0P tops, 00P bottoms/dresses in BR and AT. Also, comments on quality? At that price point, I don’t expect it to be very high.

    • Anonome

      Reviews on the WHBM site says this particular jacket runs abnormally small, even for that brand.

    • anon

      In my experience, their tops are very short. I sent several back before I gave up, even though I like the styles. Can’t say about jackets, or petites, though.

  13. Anon

    What’s your favorite casual vest? I would like either an olive or navy vest to wear to my casual office and on the weekends. I also have a fairly wide hips so I need something that is not cut too tightly .

  14. Anon

    Can anyone let me know their best hair growth tips, tricks and supplements? I just turned 40 and I swear my hair has stopped growing. I’m hoping it’s my imagination but doesn’t hurt to try to give it a boost right?

    I feel like this has been discussed on here before, so sorry for the potential repeat convo. I don’t know how to search old comments.

    • Anon

      Unless you have a severe hormonal issue your hair has not stopped growing, it’s most likely breaking off at the ends (although hair growth rates can vary throughout life, but it definitely has not stopped). You may produce less sebum as you get older or maybe your hair is just drier for some reason. I’d focus on conditioning, staying very hydrated, eating well (healthy skin/scalp tends to yield healthier hair), and doing styles that tuck in the ends of your hair so that they aren’t brushing against rough fabric. Buns, chignons, etc.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think it’s too hard to tell the difference between breakage and growth rate. But it’s true that when my hair has stopped growing, it’s been because of severe hormonal issues.

    • thehungryaccountant

      Some general tips for growing hair out:
      -weekly leave-in conditioner or hair mask
      -find a good balance for timing hair cuts (I find every 6 months to be my sweet-spot for growing out my length)
      -protective hairstyles for every day (you want to limit tangles as much as possible)

    • Anonome

      I swear by Viviscal supplements, but you need to give it a good 3-4 months to see results.

      Also, have you changed your bag lately? A common tip I see from hair vloggers is to make sure your hair isn’t getting caught on seat belts, under purse straps, etc. All that yanking and ripping is costing you length. If nothing else, alternate shoulders so the damage evens out.

    • Aanon

      Strangely, I’m finding my hair is growing and behaving better now – in mid-40s – than it ever did in my 20s and 30s. I attribute it to washing/drying less (2x a week in winter, every other day but little blow drying in summer), finding a conditioner that really suits my hair type, and investing in 3x per year professional highlights rather than every six weeks blonde from a box.

  15. AIMS

    Here’s a random question about shapes and clothes. I have a somewhat hourglass shape, small waist, etc. But whenever I try clothes intended to highlight that shape (dresses with a nipped in waist, peplum tops, etc.) I just feel super frumpy. On the other hand, I feel like I look better in some “boxier” items like shirt dresses, open blazers that don’t define the waist, etc. Is this just a weird perception issue on my part or is it maybe that the “waist defining” clothes actually look better on straighter shapes? Not sure if this is making any sort of sense or I am using the right terminology, but curious for thoughts from people who know more about this than me (so basically everyone :-))

    • Anon

      You’re making complete sense, because I have the same problem (I’m tall and about 38-26-38, FWIW).

      Peplum makes my butt look huge, but it’s completely adorable on more straight up-and-down types. I like sheath dresses with tailored waists, so long as the seams are cut vertically (this makes it easier for it to define my actual waist and not make my hips look big). Open blazers allow me to highlight my waist with the blouse and skirt, and they tend to hit higher on the hip. It’s really hard for longer blazers to nip in at the waist correctly and still flare out over the hips; they tend to poof out at the waist.

    • anon

      I have a similar shape, and I find that the neckline of what I’m wearing has a lot to do with how frumpy I look. I tend to look best in high neck sleeveless dresses. I’m short waisted, so if I wear something with a low neckline, the upper half of me looks like a big frumpy shelf of b00bs. And I also find that straighter skirts work better for me than fuller skirts.

      • Panda Bear

        This – shortwaistedness makes fit and flare items challenging for me too even though I am hourglassy.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, it has to do with torso length. Curvy clothes work best on hourglass figures that are not short-waisted.

    • Anon

      I have the same problem – relatively slender overall, chest and hips are much bigger than my waist and I’m very tall. Waist defining clothes don’t look right on me. I guess I assume it was because of my height and the waist not hitting at my true waist. But I don’t know.

    • anonymous

      I have an hourglass-ish shape, but i also carry weight in my belly. I like fit and flare dresses that are fitted right under my bust and then skim over my belly. So I guess the “nipped” part is higher up rather than at the waist.

    • DoesntBelongHere

      You might check out the Kibbe body types and see if you are some sort of Natural type. I am hourglass-ish but also a bit athletic and clothes meant to hug and “show off my curves” make me look bigger than I am. Clothes that drape a little looser work better. It’s weird.

    • Anonymous

      I have a similar shape, but for me I feel like it’s not so much that I look frumpy in something defined at the waist, but that it doesn’t look stylish to my eye right now. That particular shape doesn’t seem to be what’s in style so even though I can tell it’s flattering on my body, I don’t like the way it looks. If that makes sense ….

    • Ariadne

      I have noticed the same “frumpiness factor” with many styles of late. I’m an extreme hourglass and whenever I try on conventionally hourglass fit and flare or peplum type styles, I don’t feel that current, even though the shape does highlight my waist. I’ve noticed that the fashion now is for more of a gentle a line or bias cut type fit and flare. I think the weight and length of the fabric also makes a difference to the overall look.
      I think boxier shapes in a drapier fabric can look good on hourglasses, especially as you walk and move. I have a loose top from pleone that I keep adding and removing from the donation pile and if I took a photo of myself in it, It looks sack like and hides my shape; however, when I move, it reads elegant and flows and reveals my shape. I also gravitate towards skirts and tops, which allows me to vary the silhouette from loose to fitted, whereas with dresses, I can only slightly alter the shape with jackets or cardis. I agree with the poster who said that because this style may be less fashionable now (I’ll still wear it and not getting rid of fit and flare anytime soon) it may feel more frumpy to you.

    • Anon

      It sounds that you might be trying clothes that are meant to give an illusion of an hourglass shape (like peplums) rather than necessarily clothes for an hourglass. Open jackets like you choose are super for hourglasses, because you can generally see that there is a smaller waist underneath. You can even use a small contrasting belt at your natural waist under an open blazer, if you want to draw attention to the waist, you don’t have to cinch, it’s okay to be an hourglass and not dress like Joan from Mad Men or Jessica Rabbit…

      I find that a lot of fit and flare and draped dresses are for people who are not hourglasses, but people who want to “fake it”. Diagonal drapes across the stomach, e.g., will hide and and make a fuller middle look smaller, but it will just add fabric and bulk up an already small waist.

      I think Imogen at insideoutstyleblog.com has some great pages on body shapes and and other information about fit, necklines, proportions etc. Her distinction between X and 8 hourglasses is very helpful. If you’re not absolutely sure about your shape (and it sounded like you’re not), that might be good resource.

  16. Irish Midori

    I usually hate tweed, cropped, and pink, but somehow I love this jacket. Good pick!

    • Anonymous

      I was disappointed when I went to the link, and it appeared (and was called) shades of red rather than pink.

      • Irish Midori

        Yeah, but “rhubarb” probably reads pink, and the one review comments that it’s really pink, not red. Also their suggested stylings are showing it with pink accessories, so I assume it’s running more pink than red. I have a couple other things from WHBM are borderline pink/red, so this seems to be a thing with them.

  18. Gamec*ck Q

    Nephew turns 21 just before the USC-Clemson game held In Columbia over Thanksgiving weekend. He wants to stay in his apartment for the holiday and party and enjoy the game.

    Would it be crazy to bring the family? Are there suite-type hotels (will be 2 families traveling together with kids) that should be available then? And restaurants to feed us?

    My kids love nephew and we’d miss him like crazy. It is a short drive for us, but we would ideally not do it as a day trip. We don’t care so much about the game (mostly) but didn’t have a sense of how the city does for adult family travelers for home games that are also over a holiday weekend.

    When we go to Columbia to see nephew we usually avoid home football weekends and things like family weekend and have loved the city, the zoo, Congaree, and some cute restaurants in the area towards the river (it has a name that I am forgetting at the moment).

    If it would be a miserable family holiday time, we would go to take Nephew out for a Janice dinner some other weekend.

    Thanks!

    • Anon

      With the caveat that I don’t know your nephew, most 21 year olds want to spend their birthdays drinking with their friends, not entertaining visiting family. I would pick a different weekend to visit and take him out to a nice dinner, which I’m sure he would really appreciate.

    • Pompom

      Double check with nephew on his plans, but if I were turning 21 around the time of a big-to-my-school football game, I would be getting legally plastered and acting a fool with my friends, and not wanting to worry about my very nice very loved family squeezing in time. Maybe that dinner later is a better plan!

    • Anonymous

      Has your nephew invited, by the sounds of it, you and his parents and a passel of children to crash his drunken football partying weekend? Has he said “I am staying here to party but I would so love it if you joined me.”

      If not please for goodness sakes have a little more chill and let him live his life.

    • Skipper

      From below, because I haven’t drunk nearly enough coffee today.

      Two thoughts: one, if I were Nephew, I would be 100% not on board with this. Familial presence seems like a real impediment to turning 21 at a tailgate. If you don’t mind, I don’t mind. But I bet the kid minds.

      Two, if y’all decide to go, you’ll need to book your hotel right away. Reservations fill up fast and will be crazy, crazy expensive. You may well find yourself stuck paying $300 for a $60 night motel.

    • Anon

      Yeah, I can’t imagine my aunt and uncle and their family showing up to visit me at college for my 21st birthday. That would have been not good for anyone involved.

    • Cat

      Day trip for actual Thanksgiving maybe, but do not invade the entire weekend. No 21yo birthday tailgate needs relatives in attendance…

    • Anon

      So you’re going to just arrive in town on your nephew’s 21st birthday and be like “entertain us, we’re faaaamily and we miss you”. Please don’t do that. I’d be pissed. Don’t thrust yourself upon a young adult on a milestone drinking birthday. You’re going to get a hung over and annoyed nephew who will avoid your visits in the future. Visit on another holiday and CHECK IN WITH HIM BEFORE, and don’t guilt him into you coming either, because he might cave and still be resentful.

      • Anonome

        Yeah, as the nephew I would ditch OP and not feel badly about it. Let him be a college kid. This idea is really obtuse.

    • BeenThatGuy

      I would have hated my family if they showed up to hang out with me the weekend of the Carolina/Clemson game. It’s literally the biggest weekend of the year for college students. So my advice is to leave your nephew to have his fun and visit him another time.

    • Anonymous

      I turned 21 on the same day as our school’s big rival basketball game. I would have been furious if any of my family showed up. Don’t do this. Let him celebrate with his friends. Go some other weekend.

    • Vicky Austin

      Short answer: yes, it would be crazy. You are considering moving family Thanksgiving to a different city because one nephew doesn’t want to come home and your kids would miss him? That’s too much.

      Sidenote: you’ve heard of family weekend, right?

      • Anonymous

        We hate family weekend! His mom (divorced) has that weekend and it is just too crowded and expensive in Columbia then. Also way too hot.

        • Anon

          You think the biggest football game weekend of the year is going to be cheaper than family weekend? You clearly know nothing about the SEC.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the comments!

      We are a family that for some reasons always travels to a hotel for Thanksgiving, so it is something we are really used to doing (his family, too). And we are so lame, that we don’t interfere (we know he is not available before noon, and when we are retiring for the night, he is going out; it’s good, we love him and feed him and then otherwise stay in our lanes; we don’t go to games (but I might like to watch a bit in a sports bar vs going to the stadium)). And his birthday is Armistice Day, so not right before this. I think that it will be a novelty being of age in a drinking-heavy college town during football season and it is a fun deal (and a girlfriend this year), so that is why he is staying.

      I think maybe what we’ll do is either see what the actual holiday looks like (W night, TH, F) or another weekend b/c the hotel situation may be what sinks this (no one but him would likely be going to the actual game; we’re Congaree people during nice November days).

      • Anonymous

        Omg so no he didn’t invite you and you’re just casually imposing. Literally 100% of us have told you this is a terrible plan. Do not do it.

      • January

        Given all the reasons you listed, I think I would just let him be this Thanksgiving weekend. Sounds like he doesn’t want to have a family weekend.

      • Anon

        I would not visit any college town during a major football weekend unless you actually want to attend the game. I live in a college town (Big 10 so football is big but it’s nothing like the SEC) and football weekends are miserable. Insanely crowded, insanely expensive ($80/night mid-range hotels are $500+), restaurants have 2+ hour waits, etc. It turns my sleepy little community into a mob scene and I absolutely hate it. lf you’re not tailgating and attending the game, you’re soooo much better off picking a different weekend to visit.

        • Anon

          And, fwiw, I couldn’t even tell you when our university’s family weekend is. I’m sure it drives up hotel prices slightly, but the crowds are nothing like football weekends.

      • Suburban

        It’s just so telling that this entire original comment is about you and your kids and what you want or what would be fun for you. Not one care for the person who is celebrating a milestone birthday and already opted out of family time. Send him a nice birthday present and make alternative plans.

      • Cat

        Please don’t do this. Let him be.

        Do you know how rare a unanimous vote is here? The last one I can remember was taking the train from DC to NYC instead of flying. And that must be 5+ years ago.

      • Anon

        Gently, I’m kind of surprised that this is your take away after all of the exact same responses saying definitely not to go there on this weekend. In your original post and this response I can’t help but notice it is all about whether this will be enjoyable for you and your family (example, no one on here’s main concern was whether staying in a hotel for you on Thanksgiving would be weird) with little actual consideration as to whether your nephew has in any way expressed that he wants this, or concern as to what he would enjoy. Maybe he has and that part is just being left out? I know you think you don’t interfere, and maybe on a normal weekend you don’t, but I would think hard about whether he really will feel that way on this particular weekend.

      • Flats Only

        I get the feeling OP doesn’t understand that nephew isn’t planning to celebrate by going to the game. He’s planning to celebrate by getting blind drunk and staying that way for the duration of the weekend. Does she want her kids to see uncle so-and-so passed out on the couch in between throwing up? I hope she comes back and can tell us why she feels like it’s OK to horn in on his weekend, instead of just complaining about hotel rates and assuring us she isn’t trying to go to the big game.

      • Anon

        I don’t know what time the game is, but as a student I definitely did not wait to start drinking until I was going out at night. ;) . He’ going to be pregaming and hanging out with his friends, not a good time to visit.

      • Crazy Football Chick

        Okay, since even SC and Clemson alums have chimed in here and you haven’t taken the hint, I am going to SPELL IT OUT.
        DO. NOT. DO. THIS.
        First of all, there won’t be a hotel room to be had in the entire Palmetto State that weekend, and if there is, you’re going to have to mortgage your house and give up your first born to pay for it.
        Second, your nephew is turning 21, it’s the biggest damn game of the whole SEC season in the Carolinas, and he’s got a girlfriend. He wants to get totally fall-down, obliterated, sh!tfaced drunk, hang with his friends and his girl, and enjoy the craziness of an SEC rival football weekend. Family need not apply.

        It’ll be just less than a month until Christmas. You and your kids can survive until then.

        Please, do not do this. Do not be THAT relative. You might think it’s not a big, fat, honkin’ deal, but trust me, IT IS.

    • Anon

      Yep, it would be crazy. Nephew, assuming he is a normal 21 year old college student (which it sounds like from the fact that he wants to stay and party with friends), isn’t going to want family hanging around and it is likely going to hurt your relationship with him. Go the weekend before or the weekend after his birthday, if you really want to visit. Or wait and do something special when he is home a few weeks later for winter break.

    • Maudie Atkinson

      South Carolina alumna here.
      I agree with everyone that you absolutely should not go unless your nephew WANTS you to come. If, however, he does, I’d suggest renting an AirBnB or the like and doing it NOW. Hotels (and everything else) book up that weekend 8 to 10 months in advance. If you’re contemplating only being there for the holiday and not for the weekend of the game, it may be a little easier to find something to rent. You’ll have no problem getting your kids fed, etc., that weekend in Columbia (apart from Thanksgiving day, likely).

    • Anonymous

      Clemson alumna here.
      15th-ing that this is not the weekend/week to go unless your nephew has specifically invited the family and that, if he has, you need to make arrangements yesterday. Clemson/Carolina is a holiday unto itself and families that bleed orange or garnet will absolutely be packing it in to Columbia that weekend.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, this. Unless you and your kids are up for being in the spirit of the game and the crowds and rowdy drunk people, I would just go some other time. I’ve never been, but it’s probably like being in Key West for Fantasy Fest and not actually participating in Fantasy Fest. Everything is more crowded, more expensive, and the one event envelops the entire city. Unless you’re there for that event and willing to take the bad parts of the event (crowds, traffic) in stride, I think it’s best to just avoid it.

    • anon

      Noooo, don’t do this. Your nephew has made his holiday and birthday wishes known; do not stomp over his boundaries just because your kids miss him. Visit him another time.

      • Anonymous

        OTOH, what if this is a family school and a day trip (you live in Myrtle Beach)? I get if you are flying across the country for something at Notre Dame (OTOH, those football fans are loco with travel for their team).

        I am scratching my head at telling people they can’t go to an SEC football event / party weekend. Especially if I went to the school or was used to going or just like monumental football games (like the Army Navy game), I think that it’s like going to a movie: the invitation has already been made for the world to come. You can’t demand that people stay away b/c it may not mesh with your particular party vibes. Football games are littered with rich, older alumni and their families — who do you really think funds the booster club. The undergrads?

        • Anon

          Nobody is telling her she can’t go to an SEC football weekend. They’re saying it’s not a good idea to horn in on her nephew’s 21st birthday at his school where he currently attends. And she doesn’t even want to attend the game, so she’s clearly not a member of the booster club!

        • January

          If they had strong family ties to USC and were primarily going for the game (and hoping to see nephew while they were in town), I’d feel differently. But they probably would have already had plans to go in that case.

      • anne-on

        I seriously cannot fathom even a GOOD family relationship surviving this type of trip it is just SO tone deaf…

    • Anonymous

      Are you the same person who has been posting that her kid has “Asperber’s” (sic) and that she is stressed out about the size of her range hood?

        • Anonymous

          I think this is right. Also stressed out about camp options for tweens or young teens because she is convinced she is the only working mom in her entire southern city.

    • Anonymous

      It is seriously weird to go visit your nephew at college uninvited at any time, much less over Thanksgiving when he has already told you he wants to party at the football game with his girlfriend and no family.

    • Quail

      Putting the specifics of this football weekend situation aside, family members are not obligated to attend family Thanksgivings, and may choose to spend their holidays elsewhere. College is when I started spending Thanksgivings away from my family – with my roommate’s family one year, with my boyfriend’s family another. Gently, this is part of growing up, and your extended family needs to proceed without him.

  19. Anon

    Ugh, feeling really frustrated. I’ve maintained the same weight for most of my life but now I’ve gained 15 lbs in less than a year and I’m not sure why. My thyroid is normal and my “hormone levels” are too (not sure what exactly the doctor tested – I’m waiting for the mailed results). I started a new job with a long commute and am definitely under more stress, but still, 15 lbs (on a 5’5 frame)? I would have expected to gain a few, but this seems excessive. I practice intuitive eating and am not really interested in dieting, but I can’t lie and say this isn’t getting frustrating. I’m also wondering if there could be another cause. I haven’t started new birth control or anything like that, though.

    • Anonymous

      Oh honey. You’ve moving less, eating more without realizing it, and getting older. There’s no mystery here.

    • Anon

      So…
      1) You are frustrated with the weight
      2) Practice “intuitive eating” which is basically eat what you want/think your body needs
      3) Are under more stress and are more sedentary for longer periods of time (i.e. commute)
      4) Don’t want to diet

      I mean it’s pretty clear you’re stress eating and burning fewer calories. 15 lbs in a year is 1-2 lbs in a month, super easy to do on accident with only eating slightly more. But if you don’t want to do anything about it, why are you complaining? Accept it and move on or act, but you know what’s going on.

      • Anon

        Not wanting to diet isn’t “not wanting to do anything about it.” Increasing movement/exercise, working on being mindful about snacking (always a process with IE), and focusing on home-cooked meals are all non-diet examples of steps you can take.

    • Anonymous

      How long have you practiced intuitive eating? Have you noticed your eating habits change?

      • Anon

        I’ve practiced IE for a few years (since before the commute). My meals have mostly not changed, although I am sure I took in more calories than usual on certain days with treats at work. I’m just confused because I’ve totally gone through periods of mindless snacking or holidays or whatever in the past and my weight has always stayed largely the same or only fluctuated slightly, but now the weight gain is like a train.

        • Daisy

          How much less than a year? For example, 15 lbs in 10 months is only an extra 150 calories a day — which is half a cookie, a large apple, 7 containers of half n half (so the amount in 2-3 cups of coffee). It’s very very easy to consume an additional 150 calories per day without feeling like anything has changed. Your scale tells you the real story. You may need to be more mindful of how many calories you are consuming and burning to reverse this, since what you’re doing now isn’t getting you the results you want.

          • Anon

            Yeah, it’s been about 10 months. Ugh, I think you’re right. I am sure that exercising less alone has led to a 150-calorie surplus.

    • Anonymous

      Of course diet is most important, but in addition to thinking about food … Maybe try to reduce stress; exercise is the best. Also good sleep.

    • anne-on

      Hi, this was me. I was up about 16lbs at my highest (job stress, travel, passed over for a promotion, food is yummy, etc.). It took me about 7-9 months but I finally lost all the weight (and fit into my old work clothes again, woot!). What helped was finally admitting that yes, I gained the weight and it wasn’t some big secret as to why (too much food and booze, not enough exercise).
      What I did – ditched my pilates membership because I am only able to regularly work out 2-3 times a week, and that wasn’t burning enough calories to make a difference. I now do orange theory 2-3 times a week (4 if I’m not traveling) and I firmly believe that focusing on cardio AND weights helped a ton.
      I also drink a LOT of water…and then some more water. Plus tea in the winter. Tea instead of an evening glass of wine helped too. I also had to cut back on the mindless afternoon snacking. It took a bit of time to get used to feeling slightly hungry and addressing that with water/fruit/veggies/tea but once the scale started to move it was easier to do.
      Good luck – I aimed for 1-2 lbs a month and have kept it off even through vacations and work travel.

      • Ellen

        This is so insightful! I need to do more of this and less snacking on cookies and deserts. I love sweets, but know that the sugar goes right to my tuchus, and stays there. So I also will cut down on sweets and exercise and sleep more. I think we lawyers would all have flat tuchuses (tuchii?) if we did not have to sit all day writing briefs for court, and walked around the office instead. FOOEY!

    • Two Cents

      I’m your height and lost about 15 pounds doing intermittent fasting. For me it’s the only thing that has worked, and I love not feeling like I need to exercise constantly or count calories. I don’t consider it a diet because I eat plenty and mostly whatever I want, I just do it during a more narrow time frame.

      • Anon

        How soon after starting IF did you see results? I’ve been doing it for a couple weeks and have not lost anything yet.

        • Two Cents

          I saw results within a few weeks, but my friends who have done it have said it took them longer. I do it every day including weekends and I try to be strict about eating only within my window.

          • Two Cents

            My window is generally 1 pm – 8 pm but I definitely fudge that if I’m going out to dinner with friends. I will just eat later the next day. What I love is the flexibility of it. I have been doing it for about one year at this point. It’s changed my life. I’m never hungry in the morning either — your body adjusts. Not saying it works for everyone of course, but for me it’s been transformative.

        • Anon for this

          I’ve lost around 70 lbs over the last year with IF. I will say it took a month before the weight started moving but after that it was a pretty easy 1.5-2 lbs a week loss rate for me.

  20. Skipper

    Two thoughts: one, if I were Nephew, I would be 100% not on board with this. Familial presence seems like a real impediment to turning 21 at a tailgate. If you don’t mind, I don’t mind. But I bet the kid minds.

    Two, if y’all decide to go, you’ll need to book your hotel right away. Reservations fill up fast and will be crazy, crazy expensive. You may well find yourself stuck paying $300 for a $60 night motel.

  21. Anon

    Guys, I work for a company that has been the subject of several rumors about failure. Was just called to an “all hands” meeting with the CEO when he angrily and forcefully denied all the rumors and then yelled at us that everything was fine and business-as-usual.

    Somehow this was less than comforting!!

  22. Cbara

    Anybody out there with experience of having braces as an adult? I just got them for the first time at age 48. Will have them for two years. They don’t hurt so much yet but I have been taken off guard as to how much effort goes into eating and keeping them clean. Would love any advice! I had a baby tooth that never came out and after 40 something years decided to come loose, so the braces are to pull down the permanent tooth.

    • Anonymous

      It gets so much easier quickly. Like a month in you’ll be great at everything except whole apples and corn on the cob. A waterpik is very helpful for cleaning.

    • Anon

      I had braces in my twenties, and also had them for two years (24-26). Most of my discomfort was caused by the metal pieces (like hooks, not wires) poking against the inside of my mouth, so dental wax was a real life saver. As for cleaning, I made a habit of flossing and brushing after every meal (including after lunch at the office). I used interdental brushes to get between the wires.

    • Anon

      Yes, I didn’t eat sandwiches, burgers, or pizza for the year and a half that I had braces because I found that biting into bread would invariably leave me with a bunch of gunk in my braces. Eating things with a fork was much easier.

      My main advice is for after the braces come off. I’ve worn my retainer/mouth guard literally every single night for the last 10 years since I had my braces off. It’s the #1 thing on my packing list after keys/wallet/phone. I’m extremely happy I had braces, and my teeth haven’t really moved back at all as a result of being so consistent with my retainer. Also, once you have your braces off, make sure you bring your retainer in for your dentist to clean and check whenever you have a teeth cleaning appointment. They’ll help you figure out when it’s time for a new retainer.

      • eertmeert

        Same for retainer. I have a permanent bar behind my front lower teeth, and it’s been amazing. I had it replaced once, but it wasn’t a big deal at all.

        I had a permanent retainer behind my front 4-6 teeth as well, but after having some dental work on one of the front ones it was removed and not replaced. I’ve had some shifting, but nothing drastic.

        So if you don’t think you will faithfully wear a removable retainer, ask for the permanent kind. I’ve had mine since my teens and it’s never caused me trouble.

        • Anonymous

          Counterpoint: My kid had a permanent retainer for about a year. She wasn’t supposed to bite into anything hard, which would be an annoying restriction if imposed for life. Despite following the instructions, she broke the plastic at least three times, requiring trips to the orthodontist for repair. Once it happened in the middle of the weekend and left the wire sticking out. It was horrible. When she gets her current set of braces off, we are going to refuse the permanent retainer in favor of a removable one.

          • eertmeert

            That’s too bad!

            Mine is a metal bar adhered to the back of my teeth, no plastic involved. I can bite into anything without an issue. I didn’t know they made plastic permanent ones. I’ve had my replacement since early 2000s, so maybe they’ve changed procedures since then?

            Sorry your kid had such a rotten time with hers!

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t have them as an adult, but as a high school senior (so close enough). Agree with dental wax to help with any rubbing. Also agree with getting a water pik which just makes it so much easier. And one avoid that’s random is canned chicken soup – it stained rubberbands and clear brackets for me a gross yellow color.

    • Anonome

      Had mine in my late 30s. It took almost four years; the ortho told me to expect that because the bones are not pliable in adulthood and the teeth fight harder against moving. Wear your rubber bands faithfully to shorten the timeframe.

      What I struggled with most was that healthy foods are usually painful foods (raw veg and fruit, firm lean meats) and it was SO hard to maintain my weight when all I could tolerate was yogurt and applesauce. I also got killer headaches (already prone to migraines) so doing cardio was brutal.

      Also, never get lazy about all the cleaning. Some nights I was just so exhausted that I couldn’t stand up long enough to do the twenty minutes of brushing, flossing, picking, scaling, and rinsing that my stupid jacked-up teeth required. I have some discoloration that I could have avoided.

    • anon

      I finished the process almost a year ago (just turned 4-0). I am in retainers now. I did not enjoy braces but these things I found helpful:
      – a water pick (I hate flossing but the water pick was OK)
      – keeping a toothbrush on me for use after meals
      – eating popcorn out of spite when I needed to (but carefully)
      – dental wax for anything/everything that poked inside my mouth
      – not smiling
      – Being extremely honest during any adjusting appointment and keep asking for adjustments or snipping of wires till everything feels as comfortable as possible.
      Something I wish I had known before hand: for me, the removal of the braces was AWFUL. my teeth were extremely sensitive and I lost it when they started forcefully sanding the remains of the adhesive off my teeth post removal. I believe you can ask for pain killers to help numb the area and my vote is do that or at least discuss options with the people doing the work. To be fair, the ortho was used to dealing with kids and teens, so he may just not be aware that adult teeth may be more sensitive post brace removal. Or given his field, he’s simply a sadist.

      • eertmeert

        My dentist offers a numbing mouthwash for cleanings. It helps, and you don’t need a shot, just to swish and spit. Maybe ask about that?

        Personally, I don’t know how dentists and hygenists deal with the drilling noises. Those noises shake me to my core.

      • Anonome

        OMG, same with removal being a nightmare. That scraping tool sent me through the roof. They gave me a lot of breaks to regain my composure. Everyone swore I was going to love the clean, smooth feeling post-removal, but I was just in complete misery for days.

        Also, I had ceramic brackets on the uppers, and apparently those are harder to remove, which I wasn’t told ahead of time. I would have gladly given up the clear look to avoid that pain.

    • Senior Attorney

      I had them in my 40s. Not gonna lie, my quality of life took a huge hit while they were on. Yes to the dental wax, yes to brushing after every meal, yes to being very communicative about things that hurt or are uncomfortable.

    • Anon

      I had them at exactly the same age as you, for two years, and while those years were a pain, I can say it was easily the best money I ever spent. Eating, brushing and flossing will get much easier as time goes on and you’re in a routine. I kept extra dental supplies at my desk at all times and still brush every day at work. You may need to get used to not eating corn on the cob or caramel apples (I still don’t eat caramel anything) but the long-term effects are virtually all positive. You will be glad you did this.

  23. Anonymous

    I’m on my perpetual quest for work-appropriate flats. Thoughts on comfort and look of Tieks? Are they worth the price?

    • Anon

      The teal soles are really glaringly obvious when you walk. It’s distracting, and depending on your field, may not convey a professional vibe. (On a teacher or creative type? Cute. In a business formal setting? Not so much.)

      • Anon

        My Tieks also did not hold up well at all and took forever to break in. By the time they actually started feeling comfortable, I has scuffing all around the edge of the leather. My big toe was also always visible through the leather. Would not buy again ever.

      • Anon

        Agree. I love the look of Tieks, but I couldn’t stand the neonish-teal bottoms. I tend to keep a very neutral wardrobe and it was so jarring to see that bottom.

    • anne-on

      For the cost, I’d go with Rothy’s instead of Tieks unless you somehow really want the foldability aspect?
      FWIW I also think if you’re wearing flats, a pointed toe just reads as slightly more formal than a rounded toe.

    • anon

      Tieks are really cute, but they look more casual than business casual. I feel your pain with finding good, work-appropriate flats. I love the pointy-toed look but my gosh, they kill my feet.

      • Anonymous

        Yea, I have never found comfortable pointy-toed flats for my feet, unfortunately.

    • anon

      I have been wearing (and loving) my Everlane day flats, but they are not pointy (i have a wide forefoot and narrow heel, which makes pointy shoes esp uncomfortable).

    • Of Counsel

      I have 3 pairs of Tieks and love them BUT: (1) They scuff like mad because the leather is so soft so you have to commit to keeping them polished. Because of that I will only buy the solid colors (not the patterns) and only in colors where there is a matching polish; (2) The round toe is less professional than the pointed toe – but I cannot wear a pointy-toe anyway so that is not a major problem for me; (3) Your big toe might show through (again the leather is very soft). I fix that by putting a piece of mole skin at the toe.

      I have Rothys too and wear them for different things. The Rothys are very comfortable but my feet sweat like mad if it is hot out and I find the Tieks more comfortable for extended walking once they are broken in.

    • Pink

      i got some LK bennet flats over the holiday clearance sale in Jan and LOVE them–they’re made to be a shoe, and not some nylon sock like Rothys (which i still love, but they are not “comfy” in that they provide no support).

  24. Anonymous

    I have a tendency to date “down” (I use this word colloquially, not making a judgment) in terms of my partner’s job. I am a lawyer, and my most recent ex was a landscape architect at times, but mostly an unemployed aspiring writer, and I find the guys I am matching with on Hinge and Bumble all tend to be some variety of artist with bartender day jobs. I’ve never cared about how much my partner makes or what their job is at all, and in my attempts to date men with similar paying jobs (ie. other lawyers, finance guys, consultants) they have been, without exception, sociopaths. I find that my values and interest tend to align more with those in creative fields than those in professional fields (I often feel like a bit of a misfit at work for this reason). However, I’m getting to the point now where I really hope my next relationship is the lasting one and I have been thinking about the life I would like to have in the future, and it definitely involves either being a stay-at-home-mom or working MUCH less than I am now (ie. not being a lawyer). It certainly doesn’t involve me being the breadwinner of the household. Any thoughts on how much this should play into my current dating efforts? It’s hard enough to find someone I’m interested in going on a date with, and it feels very contrary to my nature to care about what a potential suitor’s salary/job is, but do I need to??

    • Anonymous

      I should probably soften what I said above before I am attacked in the comments, by clarifying that only two of the professional men I have dated were sociopaths, the others just didn’t align with me in terms of values and I couldn’t connect with them on a deeper level because of that.

    • Anon

      I think it’s impossible to know you want to be a stay at home mom until you have children, so I’d put that thought out of your head completely. If you don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, then I would look into transitioning away from being a lawyer, but I would keep it separate from dating.
      Also, if you’re REALLY sure want to not work and have your husband be the breadwinner, consider moving somewhere LCOL. I live in the rural Midwest and know many people who support families of 5 on $50k salaries. That would be unimaginable in most big cities. Moving somewhere cheaper will mean men who aren’t doctors/lawyers/CEOs can be the sole earner if that’s what you want. I know teachers, writers, post office employees, etc. here who have wives who are SAHMs. But also consider that if you do this, you’re likely to attract men who actively want to be the sole earner and those men probably have some pretty traditional (some would say sexist) views about women and family. Is that really the type of person you want to date?

    • anon

      If you feel pretty confident that you potentially want to be an SAHM/work part time (or something similar), then yes, you should probably focus your efforts on dating men with higher incomes. Even then, though, there’s no guarantee those men will stay in those high paying positions. For example, I know a few biglaw attorneys (men) who ended up leaving for positions in government/academia because the work was just too stressful, and their families had to adjust accordingly.

      • Anonymous

        Conversely, you can date any guy you want to … as long as you are willing to make the lifestyle changes needed to live on his income. I make a gazillion dollars less a year than most people (it seems) who post here, and I live just fine.

      • Monday

        Yes, I know two women (ages late 30s and early 70s) who each planned to stay home with their kids while husband was the sole breadwinner, who instead ended up being the primary or sole breadwinners. This isn’t to say that there’s no point in planning, but it is to say that having the option to keep making $$ yourself is important. And also that it always makes sense to prioritize having the right partner (whatever that means for you) over a specific financial arrangement that may not hold up over time.

        • beenthere

          So… 3 months before our wedding my now-husband was laid off. For a variety of reasons it made sense for him to go back to school for a while and retrain. Then came the great recession. Anyway, I ended up solely supporting us, then us + kids for several years. It’s not what I planned; it’s not what my husband planned. You know the old saying “Man plans and God laughs”? It’s true. I think the only thing you can really do is make sure you have a spouse who has similar values, someone who is willing to stay on budget, to prioritize the same things. Dating was awful. Life has its ups and downs but, with a supportive spouse, at least you have company.

      • cbackson

        Agreed. And not all men who financially could be the sole breadwinner want to be.

        • anon

          this too. my DH makes enough to support our family, but feels strongly that I should continue working, so even if I wanted to be an SAHM, I think there would be some pushback by him.

          • Anonymous

            Same. My husband thinks SAHMs are useless parasites and also likes knowing that if something happened to him I could support our child.

          • anon

            …you married a man who thinks that maintaining a home and child-rearing are useless endeavors? Yikes.

          • Anon

            I’m not sure a man who thinks SAHMs are “useless parasites” has great values either. But I agree this has to be a joint decision.

          • Monday

            Actually, the “useless parasite” attitude is one that I have most often seen from husbands whose wives stayed at home. In my experience (only!), they tend to speak patronizingly to their wives, and family decisions are not made in a remotely egalitarian way. I would never be ok with this for myself. I applaud couples who are able to keep it equitable, but I do think especially today it’s hard mentally to feel on equal footing when only one person is bringing in wages.

          • Anon

            Yeah, I REALLY hate to say this, but I agree with Monday. The people I have heard be most critical of SAHMs are, unfortunately, those women’s husbands. I’ve worked at 3 biglaw firms and at all of them have heard a fair amount of pretty awful, dismissive stuff from partners and senior associates with stay at home wives, ranging from eyerolling references to how much time they spend doing yoga to comments about weight gain to nasty dismissals of a wife who wanted to weigh in on financial decisions.

            I have NOT generally seen this from working-class men married to SAHMs or in families where a woman stays home to care for a sick or special-needs child. But I do think there is a nasty dynamic that often emerges amongst high-earning men when the formerly high-earning wife becomes a SAHM, particularly in a situation where they also have domestic help (it’s common at my firm for SAHM wives of partners to also have a nanny and cleaning person). It’s like they are so invested in work and income as the indicia of importance that when a woman gives that up (even at their urging) they no longer view her as an equal.

      • Samantha

        Yes, or you have to really scale down your expenses. I am not sure what drives your need to be a SAHM (is it sudden?) but if it is likely burnout at your job, then there are many options for you to take a step down without completely giving up working. Dating is hard enough without your adding additional arbitrary constraints (e.g. want a man who will fully support you and your style of living). Figure out what you want to do, and yes that may mean working fewer hours or a different kind of job. In parallel, continue to date and see where these worlds collide – it may involve making compromises on one or other thing – such is life and couplehood.

        • Anonymous

          OP here – it’s not sudden, I have always wanted to be a SAHM because my mother was and I have always felt that I was meant to be a mother more than I was meant to be anything else. Just a personal perspective, but not arbitrary to me. But I take your point re making compromises on something.

      • Ellen

        Exactly. The guys who you seem to gravitate toward are more likely to be catering to you because they see you as their meal ticket. You are their potential pack-horse, who can bring home the bacon instead of them. You would be silly to expect a bartender/budding but unemployed freelance writer to start busting his tuchus to make more money in a better job just so that you can be a SAHM, watching TV all day and sitting out by the pool while he works harder. No, at least men who do look at me these days see someone who can put THEM on easy-street, someone who will let THEM stay home (like my Ex, Alan), and maybe go 5X week to the dog park and chat up young mothers who have that life of leisure I crave while their husbands work. But I am smart to that and will not hook up with some looser even if he is good in bed. FOOEY on that!

    • fyi

      The reality is that most people, and most men, are at a lower income/ professional prestige level than a lawyer, especially if you’re doing something like big law. (Median personal income in 2016 was $31k.) Therefore most of the men out there, and the men on bumble, etc, will be making less money than you are.

    • Anonymous

      If you want to be a stay at home mom then yeah you’re going to need to prioritize a partner who makes enough money to support that. Obviously

      • Anonymous

        The converse that of that though is that you may not have to date a man who makes enough to support you at the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed. I always complain that I couldn’t leave the workforce and stay home. But really, I could. We would just need to downsize our home or move further out to the ‘burbs, and I would need to drastically curb my discretionary spending. But it “could” be done.

    • busybee

      You say it “feels contrary to your nature” to care about salary, but in the same breath you say you want a future in which someone else funds your lifestyle. So yes, if you want to be a SAHM or work part-time, you need to find someone whose salary can sustain the family without much of a contribution from you. Or, sock away a LOT of savings now. Keep in mind there’s a big area between the semi-employed creative types and the finance/law types. Nurses, cops, firefighters, and electricians make in the low six figures in many areas, for instance.

    • JuniorMinion

      In my experience, most of the SAHMs I’ve known (and I’ve lived in three cities as an adult in three separate states and these observations seem to run through all of them) fall into one of a few key buckets 1) Religious / culturally very traditional 2) Rural and / or other environment where people have kids at younger ages often precluding higher education and career development for women 3) Expat wives 4) Country club wives / wives of high achieving and high earning men who tend to cluster in specific high income communities or in specific industries.

      I think when you think of your future life you should think whether any of the SAHMs you know have lifestyles you seek to replicate and walk into it knowing that you are making a choice to have your primary tasks be inside the home and your spouse’s be outside the home making money. This is a fine choice to make, but in my experience in the dating world the most egalitarian men I encountered (and they existed on a wide spectrum of occupations) were all looking for women who were and planned to be self supporting. I will also tell you careers, lives and marriages are long and things can change unexpectedly (people get laid off).

      • Anonymous

        OP here – get where you’re coming from. My mother was a SAHM growing (father is a stock broker, so I guess we would fall into your 4th bucket) and she was/is amazing and is the reason I want to be a SAHM – I want my children to have the amazing childhood that I had having my mother there for myself and my brothers all the time (not that you can’t have an amazing childhood without this!); this reason is supported by the fact that I strongly dislike being a lawyer and don’t think it’s sustainable for me personally with or without kids

        • Anonymous

          As someone who already has kids and had a SAHM mom in the 80s/90s, you may need to adjust what this looks like for you today. I really wanted the childhood I had for my children, but – newsflash – it doesn’t exist any more.

          • Anon

            Why? I’m not a complete SAHM but I work part time and I feel like my kids have a childhood that is very much like mine.

          • Triangle Pose

            I mean, this is obvious but the iPhone didn’t exist in the 80s and 90s. And even if you don’t let your kid have one, other kids will and will socialize on insta, snap, etc. Social media culture didn’t exist. So sure we had video games and other things and I’m not saying better/worse but it’s definitely different.

          • Anon

            Right, but iPhones aren’t a SAHM issue – her point was not to be a SAHM because you can’t recreate what your SAHM did for you, and I don’t understand that. And social media/kids having personal devices is not a thing until middle school age. My kids are 7 and 9 and their upbringing is substantially similar to mine, even though they live in a world with devices. Do they get iPads for long plane flights and drives? Sure. But I had handheld video games. It’s really not a big difference. It’s a difference, but obviously you’re not going to be able to recreate your childhood exactly. Like the fact that I liked space, my daughters like dinosaurs. It’s a difference but not exactly a radical one.

          • Triangle Pose

            First, you’re missing the social media aspect of it. iPads on flights is different than kids being on insta commenting and taking selfies and having their peers socialize on SM and have a phone on them constantly. Middle school is still part of your childhood so not sure where you’re going there. So no, you can’t really re-create your childhood because the context is different. SM and ubiquity of phones is really just the start of it. THis has to do with SAHM because it’s a bit of a stretch to say the reason you want to SAHM is to recreate you childhood for your kids because you can’t. Your childhood happened in a specific space and time and culture that has changed drastically. It’s like this for every generation.

          • Anon

            Age is not irrelevant, many SAHMs are already back to work full time when their kids are in middle school. OP never said she wanted to be a SAHM forever, just that she wanted to stay home with young kids. She may not even be a SAHM by the time they’re in middle school.
            And saying you want your kids to have a childhood like yours obviously doesn’t mean your childhood is identical in every way. There are certain aspects of a childhood with a SAHM that are universal across generations – a mom who is home when they’re not in school, lots of quality time with mom, downtime to play with friends outside, lots of unstructured time etc. The upbringing of children whose parents work full time is very different – not worse, necessarily and everyone should do what’s right for them, but I don’t think it’s crazy to want your kids to have the SAHM experience if you had if you believe you benefited from it. Obviously, culture and technology change every generation and that’s not what her statement was about.
            My mom was raised in the 50s, I was raised in the 80s and my kids are being raised in the ‘10s. There is so much about our upbringings that’s shared, and while some of it (family values etc) would be the same no matter what, a lot of the similarities ARE due to having moms who stayed home or worked very part time.

        • January

          What does your mother think about this? My mom was a SAHM (in the 80s and 90s) and feels strongly that the world has changed enough that she doesn’t want me to pursue that path. I think her reasons include instability in the workforce (i.e., husband might get laid off) and difficulty getting back into the workforce (if I wanted to when the kids were older), and probably also just loneliness. It’s not as common as it was when my grandmother and her peers were all home raising kids in the 50s.

          As for disliking being a lawyer, I hear you, but I think exploring alternative career paths is in order because you don’t yet know when or how you might be able to leave the workforce to become a SAHM. I’d also look into early retirement blogs, since that is sort of what you would be planning to do.

        • cbackson

          So I would really encourage you to prioritize making a change in your career and lifestyle. I’d do that before I’d make any change in who you date. Based on what you’ve said, the odds are much higher that you meet and fall in love with a great guy who’s a music teacher by day/jazz musician by night than with a guy who’s in biglaw. Given that, marriage is unlikely to be your financial escape hatch (and frankly, thinking about marriage as an escape hatch is never a great idea). Why not think about how to build a life where you can be happy regardless of whether you marry a musician or an investment banker?

        • Suburban

          Gently, then why have you been dating men who earn less than you? There’s a real disconnect here between wanting to date an artist and wanting to be a country club wife. From my perspective, high achievering men in our generation look for high achieving partners, not sahms. And the ones who seek sahms tend to enjoy the power that controlling all the household money comes with.

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for the considerations, all. In response to Suburban, its not that I “want” to date an artist and I definitely don’t want to be a “country club wife” – my dream would actually be to be a novelist who works from home while raising kids (technically a SAHM and definitely not making very much in the way of wages unless I happen to write the next Harry Potter) – it is that my values tend to align with artists more than they do with high achieving men (despite being a high achieving woman). I definitely ‘work to live’, which is contrary to the ‘live to work’ attitude I often encounter in high achieving men and women. I would never marry a man with an interest in power like you’ve described, but I would marry one who is happy to support my artistic endeavors, which hopefully would be mutually beneficial even if in a very small monetary way, while I in turn provide support by staying home with the kids and the home. It is also important to me that my partner understand me, and the artistic stuff is a core part of who I am.

          • Anon

            OP, as someone else whose dream is SAHM/writer, I would really encourage you to pursue the life you want now! You don’t need a man to make this happen for you. I moved from a very traditional high-powered field like law to a creative field. There are jobs with “writer” in the title that pay you money, even if you’re not JK Rowling, I promise! Of course I make a lot less, but still enough to live on and I’m so much happier. When my kids came along I cut back to part time, so I spend a ton of time with them and get to do a lot of the SAHM stuff (I hate being a homemaker so we outsource cooking/cleaning/etc. – husband and I were in complete agreement that I was cutting my work hours to spend more time with the kids, not to be a 50s housewife). Yes, my lifestyle is a lot more comfortable because of my husband’s salary and if it weren’t for him we couldn’t take nice vacations and stuff like that, but I do earn income and can provide for myself and my kids in a basic way (plus I’d have a much easier time going back to full-time than if I’d been out of the workforce completely for years). I would pursue the lifestyle changes you want now, and not wait until you’re a wife to do this.

          • cbackson

            Anonymous, it strikes me that you’re actually dating the men who are best-positioned to understand the “artistic stuff” – because they’re men who have the same goals. They also want to have their artistic pursuits; they also want to work to live rather than living to work. It seems to me that you’ve found men who align with your core values. Might you not be better off thinking about how to build a future with one of them that allows you both to do that, rather than looking for the guy who’s going to be willing to bankroll your dream?

          • Ellen

            Agreed to this. My Dad adds that unless the OP looks like Gazelle Buntchkin, there is no way she is going to find a guy like Tom Brady to mate with her and turn her into an instant SAHM.

            And to add insult to injury, Dad also reminded me that Gazelle Buntchkin actually earns a lot more money as a covergirl-supermodel then Tom Brady does throwing a football for the NFL!

        • Aunt Jamesina

          I would separate out your desire to longer be a lawyer from your desire to be a SAHM. You might get only one of those things, or both, or neither! I would address what is most in your control for now, which is your career. Find something more sustainable. When I had my nightmare job with a horrific boss, I wanted to have kids and stay at home, which can see now was my escape fantasy. Then I found a great job in a different industry with a better work/life balance and I’ve totally changed my tune.

          Like many others here, in 8 years of marriage, my husband and I have each taken turns (more than once) significantly outearning the other. Life hands you curve balls, it’s best to be prepared for them.

    • Anonymous

      There’s a whole range of guys between top earners and artists barely scraping by. Maybe do some math on lifestyle you want — could you be happy with a more modest lifestyle than maybe you’re living now but with a focus family/home? Could you bulk up your own savings/investments/retirement now for future expenses? What could you do part-time that’s reasonably profitable? Yes, date for the future you want … prepare for it as best you can so you have some flexibility in choosing your partner & also your future work. Also, do we admire/date the person we want to be? Can you get your creative fix somewhere else? Your own artistic endeavors, a side project, museum membership, attending concerts, etc.

    • Anon

      You have several different issues.

      First: you need to work on finding men who have their heads screwed on straight. (This is a basic requirement of being in an adult relationship.) Maybe there’s something non-threatening about unemployed landscapers. Maybe you just had bad luck with professional men. But whatever it is, at least date the landscaper with a job and a plan.

      Second: being a SAHM might not be your thing. You might not be able to have kids. You might need to work. Your hedge fund husband could get laid off. The way to plan for the SAHM possibility is to save money now, pay down debt, and build your professional network so that you have more “lean out” options if you want.

      Third: it’s just not gonna happen to raise a family on the salary of a creative, artsy parent. Okay, maybe it will, but it’s a lot easier to raise a family on the salary of an IT manager or salesman than an artist. Think through what a *realistic* life looks like for you.

      Fourth: make a long-term plan to find a career path that you prefer to what you’re doing now.

    • Anon

      I don’t think you should focus your efforts on that simply because you could very well meet someone you like and decide that you’d like to be married/ have kids and work vs not do it at all if you never meet the right person who is a high earner. I totally get it, I’d like to stay home too, but it just wasn’t going to happen for me. I make like 4x what my husband makes and you know what, I’m happy still because he’s an amazing partner. Date lots of people of all kinds, it may work out the way you’d hope but you may as well see what sticks.

    • Anonymous

      What you’re describing is a pretty normal mental shift in dating. It’s perfectly fine to date people you just like hanging out with when you’re not worried about the future. But when you’re looking for a life partner, your criteria are different. A lot more things have to line up. You’re going to build a life with this person – save for retirement, buy a house, care for ailing parents, raise children if that’s a thing for you. Of course you want to date people with similar lifestyle expectations.

    • Anon

      This post is interesting because I’ve never met a person who was a permanent SAHM by choice. In my circle, women seem to fall into it when their military spouse has to move or when they have kids and especially if kids have health issues. It always seems poorly planned and they never have enough money when this happens. Eventually, they figure out a way to live but there is always a period of sharp adjustment. One family (ex-military) moved to Montana for LCOL and husband took an oil job where he is gone five weeks at a time, then home two. Another (kid health issues, HCOL) converted their basement into a studio and opened an air-bnb to make enough income (in this case the wife cleans the studio, so not entirely unemployed). Another (HCOL, wife without higher education) moved in with in-laws permanently and husband is still struggling to find stable employment (laid off twice) five years in. I literally don’t know anyone who planned it. I think you have a huge leg up on life if you plan and execute!

      • Anon

        I went to HYP and I think ~25% of my female classmates are now SAHMs, mostly by choice, and at least another 25% (me included) have taken lean out or part time jobs. It’s kind of weird to me that you don’t know anyone who chose to stay home. I’m 39, most people have kids that are under 10.

        • cbackson

          Interesting, I went to NYU for law school and I only have one classmate who is a SAHM that I’m aware of – I actually know more women who are biglaw partners than SAHMs.

          • Anon

            Well of course if you don’t have kids you don’t know any SAHMs. They’re not hanging out in the workplace.

        • NYCer

          Similar stats for my group of friends too, though I didn’t go to HYP (did go to a Top 20 undergrad and law school). I know several SAHMs by choice and/or women who cut way, way back on their jobs after having kids.

          I think the reality is that it is very hard to have two spouses with high powered, long hours jobs. Obviously not impossible, but I am always very impressed by the families that can make it work!

        • anon

          I went to HYS for law school and I know only one SAHM (her husband is a biglaw partner and they have a $5M home). Everyone else I know, both from law school and the workplace, works in at least a part time capacity (but most are FT).

      • Anon

        Whether you know them or not, a LOT of Millennial women are choosing to be SAHM (or taking major steps back when they have children) and a lot of them have college degrees. The Pew Research Center has done some interesting studies on this subject you can look up.

        Anecdotally my experience is that women with high-powered careers married to men who also have high-powered careers tend to drop out of the workforce when they have their second child simply because the logistics of having two parents who do not get home until after 8:00 p.m. become problematic. Also (in speaking with them) as their children get older and are awake longer, they start feeling like they are missing too much. And working a few more hours late at night and then getting up at 5 a.m. the next morning becomes unsustainable. In my own experience (and admittedly this is not scientific) the single biggest reason we cannot hold onto female associate is that there is nothing between zero and 100 MPH and it is hard to parent while working those hours. You can be a teacher and parent three children; good luck doing it while billing 2200 hours a year.

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