Coffee Break: Yeux Paint

51 Comments

1. For the law people: is getting no-offered from a BigLaw summer gig a kiss of death? I feel that no-offer rates are rising and it’s because firms are scared to over-hire (or are going with 1L permanent offers, which really seems to up the crapshoot potential). Also, law schools can be awful about preparing students for actual paths of practice (they can be great, but often it’s a choose-your-own-adventure game where you are ill-suited to be your own guide) and some students have no clue how the work world works, but it seems like firms skate in their bad decision-making and the cost is bourne by students.

   1. A kiss of death how? I was no offered after my 2L summer. I’m not sure anyone except my closest friends ever knew and no one certainly ever cared.

   2. If no-offer rates are rising, are firms predicting another 2009-type economic disaster and trying to avoid deferring and rescinding offers?

      1. I’d assume yes. Are there industries not predicting that kind of disaster?

   3. i think it’s unlikely that you will get an offer after a graduation at that kind of firm without summering but you can still be a lawyer. public sector, government, smaller mom and pops….

      1. I think they’re asking about summering at a firm and not getting an offer at the end of the summer.

         3L big law recruiting is a thing, but you’re going to have to have a reason for participating in it, especially if your 2L summer firn is historically a 100% offer firm.

   4. My husband didn’t get an offer from his big law summer associate gig but landed a prestigious government position. Many people in his role go to big law eventually, although he hasn’t. So, no, it’s not the kiss of death. There are many ways to be a lawyer.

   5. As someone in the law school class of 2010, I don’t believe it’s a kiss of death. I got an offer and returned to the firm I summered at, but more than half my class was no offered (both my summer class and my law school class).

      But that was a period when it was common to not get an offer. Not sure how it’s viewed now, as I left biglaw a few years ago.

      1. And to be clear, all of the people I know who didn’t get an offer went on to have attorney jobs. Some have very prestigious jobs, some more your average legal job.

   6. Not necessarily, but it sucks for a while. Elder millennial story time: I (and about half my class) got no-offered in 2009, because, well, 2009. I had a bit of a winding path but ended up at another fairly large (but not BigLaw) firm about 3 years after graduation. Fast forward to about a decade after law school; I’m working on a big MDL and turns out one of my codefendants is represented by none other than one of my fellow summers who had gotten an offer and was still at the firm I summered with. Other story: I had a partner I had worked with a bit at summer firm (who had moved on to another firm in the interim) join my firm a couple of years ago. Introduced myself: “you probably don’t remember me, but I was a summer associate at [BigLaw firm] a long time ago and worked on a project for you.” Response: “Oh, I think I remember you. How long did you stay at [BigLaw firm]?” So clearly they didn’t remember me and I had to explain the answer was 0 years because they had no-offered me. But the point is–I ultimately ended up doing the same work with the same people, even though I wasn’t at BigLaw.

      1. For less money too, I’m guessing. I think that’s what OP is getting at.

         1. Less, but not as much less as you would think. And a much better work-life balance.

   7. I graduated during the Great Recession, and I won’t lie, it was rough. Things are great now, but they are different than what I expected. I had very good grades and always thought I’d work in a big or mid law firm, in a certain city and area. I didn’t get an offer after either summer. Believe me, I cried.

      I attended all the 3L OCIs and sent so many resumes, and managed to land a state judicial clerkship for the first year. The economy just got worse, and I couldn’t roll that into a firm job, either. (Do you know how awkward it is for law firms to turn down the person who works for the judge? So many apologetic calls and personal letters.).

      I was never completely out of work, but I spent 2-3 years at tiny firms making very little, before I landed a steady and well-paying small firm job (different city and adjacent area). Now I’m in-house and it’s great and I make fairly good money and have a great quality of life. But it was hard.

      1. That sounded more grim than I wanted. To be clear, no one ever seemed bothered that I had been no offered; everyone I spoke to seemed to understand it was the economy, not me. I don’t know how that stands today, but the point is, it changes your plans, but it will work out some way or another,

   8. Used to be. Guessing things may work differently in this market. Although I’d still be hesitant to hire someone who was.

   9. It definitely complicates things but it’s not a kiss of the death, especially if no offer rates are relatively high. I was no-offered after my 2L summer in 2009, along with about half my summer class. I graduated in 2010 without a job, moved across the country to join my now-husband, took and passed that state’s bar, did contract doc review and LSAT tutoring to pay the bills, worked for a while at a small firm that hired a lot of new grads and gave them no training or support, got laid off from there after about six months because I wasn’t bringing in my own business (?? a crazy expectation of a new grad, obviously), and eventually landed a job in the fall of 2011 at a Big Law firm where they wanted me to come in as a first year associate. I was happy for the fresh start and to be trained and managed as a new grad, because I didn’t feel like I’d learned anything of substance at the small firm. I was very successful at the Big Law firm, stayed there for 6 years and left of my own accord.

      I do think there was a lot of luck involved in getting back on the standard Big Law track, but no one seemed to think it was that weird to be no-offered, given the state of the economy.

      1. Almost the same experience, but a year after you. I was no-offered in 2010, graduated in 2011, and moved with my now ex-husband.

         I’ve always been continuously employed as a lawyer, and while I don’t make big law money, I’m a partner at a medium sized boutique with a decent work-life balance and more than enough money to pay to live in my HCOLA, save aggresively, and take good vacations yearly.

         I want to be clear that if I had moved to an area where there was a larger Big Law presence initially or stayed in my law school city, I would have made more money faster. The issue I ran into was being in a smaller market.

   10. Not necessarily but it really matters why the no offer happened. The legal community, no matter how big the city is, is very small. We all know what years lots of people got no offered because of economic forces. Generally, everyone in those years is just having a tough go of finding jobs. But with that said, if the no offer was made because of behavioral reasons/ poor judgment, that will stick with you. Can think of one or two examples in the latter categories where poor summer associate decisions were still coming up in discussions years later.

       1. True. We had a summer who was no-offered because she lied about her grades, and we all still remember her name. But if it’s not for egregious personal behavior, it’s probably no big deal.

   11. Yes, unless it’s a firm doing RIFs due to the economy.

2. out of curiosity does anyone here run a booster club?

   1. I did once upon a time. It was a thankless job, but I was happy to support the organization whose club I ran.

   2. Reading late, but I’m the president of our local high school band boosters. When I joined the band boosters I realized that I had finally found my people.

3. we’re thinking of turning some of our basement space into a dedicated movie room. i suspect there’s a $1k, $7.5k, and $25k+ version of this project — any tips on where to look? my only thing is i don’t want to hire a contractor because we had a bad experience, so I’d like to keep the project closer to the middle/low end.

   i feel like the audio/visual stuff is where we should spend the money. high likelihood my teenage son and his friends will get use out of it for the next 7-10 years. my husband and i might watch 1 or 2 things a year down there, and visiting relatives might also get a kick out of it.

   our basement is a really large space. 1500 sf of it is finished but we left it really open; it has “designer” vinyl hardwood and Agreeable Gray walls. the stairs have nice carpeting. we’re thinking the movie room section could hold maybe 6-8 movie theater chairs. so we’d need to build a wall to close off the movie room space and ideally a little foyer down there so the rest of the space doesn’t feel cavernous.

   1. You don’t want to hire a contractor, but do you have any skills in building things?

   2. If there is any natural light in the space, may be less annoying to get a large TV vs a projector setup. You could hang some heavy ‘theater’ curtains instead of building a wall for separation – would be cheapish and fun looking. If you’re not committed to theater-style seats, I would honestly prefer a large sectional that has cupholders – maybe with power reclining seats? You can fit larger groups that way, and in my opinion, it’s more comfy.

   3. I’d realistically estimate 10-20k, and honestly, for something nice, I think you’ll need a contractor.

      On the construction side you’d be adding a wall+ door, probably upgrading/moving electrical, running speaker lines, probably adding carpeting, insulation, or acoustic panels to reduce sound transfer, and placing conduit in the walls for future proofing.
      And on the non-construction side, you’d be buying a really large TV or a projector and screen along with a surround sound system and getting either a bunch of sofas or other seating options.

      On the cheap end, it’d be putting a big sofa in your basement in front of a TV. I’d add

   4. Personally, I’d sink my money into super comfy lounge furniture and go basic on a wall projector. But I’m not precious about A/V equipment (not a dig on anyone who is into that).

   5. My husband did this and would have spent $50k if we could have/I let him :). If you just want a teen space you can do this yourself, get a projector and some ceiling speakers. If you want an immersive movie experience and you/your partner don’t want to do it, get a sound company in.

      We did a hybrid; we went high end used sound equipment, a good screen, and DH did the installing/running of wires/patching of drywall/ building of elaborate speaker cabinets.

   6. I’d spend money on sound proofing, chairs, and A/V. Not sure how you’d do this without a contractor.

4. Re: the clancy trial. If the conspiracy theories were true, wouldn’t the defense be putting them forth? I have no idea how criminal trials work, but would presume they’d be arguing that it was him?

   1. That is what I wonder too. Why did her lawyer advise (or agree to let her) stipulate to all the facts about the death of the kids if he thought there was a possibility that she didn’t actually do it.

   2. I don’t think this is a reliable pattern in cases where someone else turned out to have done a crime.

   3. I think too many people on this board have been watching TikTok commentary that is completely far-fetched and warping reality.

      1. +1 there’s room for debate about whether he failed her by not getting her more support and failed the kids by leaving them alone with her. Personally I come down on the side that hindsight is 20/20 and she appeared to be getting better (both through her words and her actions) in the final days so I don’t think he’s a monster for leaving her alone with them to grab the takeout that she asked him to get. But I can see how people feel differently. However the claim that he physically harmed the kids is bananacrackers and I’m shocked that any intelligent, educated person believes it.

   4. 21 years in criminal law. In Massachusetts. This is SO STUPID. Patrick Clancy did not kill his kids. I’m tired of hearing about it from idiots.

      1. He gives big family annihilator vibes and found the ultimate hack.

         1. He does not even remotely give off family annihilator vibes. Guys who do that, like the recent case in Michigan, almost always have a documented history of violent or controlling behavior. Patrick Clancy’s biggest crime is, what, moving on relatively quickly after the tragic loss of his wife and kids? Newsflash, tons of men do that. I hope he’s able to sue all you conspiracy theorists for defamation.

            1. I don’t get those vibes from him, but don’t send the message that people without a documented history of violent or controlling behavior are safe. It really depends and for some men it’s a twisted saving face thing (i.e. they had an excellent reputation beforehand).

      2. I think his demeanor and actions both before and after the crime are causing the “idiots” to formulate these theories. He looks like a bad dude who didn’t come through for his wife in her hour of need and ran off to NYC and remarried and allegedly had another child way too soon, so it’s easier for people to come up with theories about how he must have done the crime than to accept the horror of the idea that a mother could ever do this.

      3. Haha, fair enough. I guess I was just asking because this seems like the easy (lay person) answer – if it was a viable possibility surely the people charged with defending her would raise it. Therefore…NOT a viable possibility.

         1. I really think this logic only holds on TV shows.

         2. yes if it was a viable possibility the defense would raise it.

            1. And yet somehow historically when innocent people have been convicted the defense didn’t raise viable possibilities?

5. Can someone explain to me the difference between Ticketmaster, Live Nation, Stub Hub, Vivid seats, etc? Are some of these authorized and others strictly resale? I haven’t been to a concert in YEARS but want to start going and don’t want to overpay or get scammed.

   1. I believe now Ticketmaster and Live Nation are one company, Ticketmaster sells tickets and I think Live Nation does other stuff. Stub Hub is ticket resale. Haven’t heard of Vivid Seats. Also, if you look at Ticketmaster for seats, you will get both new tickets being sold by Ticketmaster and also re-sale tickets.

   2. Or you can buy directly from the venue. Online or in person. There won’t be all the extra “service” and “convenience” fees.

      1. This is not common anymore – these companies have a literal oligopoly.

         I hardly know of any venues that have in person ticket offices and I truly don’t know of a single one that has the option to buy online directly from them. You’re forced to partake in the “service/convenience” fees.

         1. Both of my city’s large indoor venues sell tickets in person for all of the touring acts and shows that appear there, even the really big ones. It’s only the awful new outdoor amphitheater with no parking and no roof and insanely overpriced tickets for aging rock and pop musicians that only sells on line.

      2. You can’t. It’s pretty common that the venue has an exclusive deal with a particular ticket seller; and part of that is them not selling directly.

      3. I do that time to time but it can be annoying because if the venue does sell directly, they will have limited days and times when the box office is open. You either pay with time or money.

Comments are closed.