Wednesday’s TPS Report: Celia Cardigan

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

trina turk celia cardiganHappy Wednesday! Today I’m really liking this bright, happy cardigan from Trina Turk. I think it would work over a sheath dress, or with simple trousers. Was $228, now $129 at Nordstrom. Trina Turk ‘Celia’ Cardigan

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  1. I’m sorry, but I would feel a bit too Nancy Reagan or Libby Dole in this.

    • Yep. A little too boxy and… red to be youthful in my book.

    • I was thinking Sarah Palin or Barbara Walters.

      • Sarah Palin :

        Oh, I so love the jacket. And, I hope we can stick to clothes today! It is so boring when you ladies talk about law school and newspapers and reading. I mean, really, I am going to be the President and I don’t know anything!

        • Save the snarky political commentary for another blog, please. I read this one for fashion and other topics.

          • Way to impose censorship. If it doesn’t start a conversation, it’ll die on its own–no need to boss people around.

          • Meh, I thought it was funny. It was just an aside, didn’t see it as trying to start anything.

          • (I meant that as a reply to AE, not Jay.)

          • Mrs. K, perhaps that is because you have been so indoctrinated to believe that Sarah Palin is an idiot, and doesn’t “know anything,” that you can’t imagine anyone else could possibly disagree. Actually, there are many intelligent people, including some who read here, who think Sarah Palin is smart and would make a good President, at least better than some we’ve had in the past. Those people may take offense at an attempt to slam Sarah Palin’s intelligence, and view it as at least an attempt at political commentary, or even an insult. Someone not so blind to other’s opinions might be aware of that.

  2. AtlantaAttorney :

    Love! With gray wool pants & black boots, very sharp.

  3. surrounded by lawyers :

    It seems like if you’re going to only have a few buttons, they should be at the bottom of the sweater rather than the top, so as to play the waist up rather than hide it. Also, this model seems to have a chest on the smaller side, but for those of us who don’t, I’d be concerned about a kind of hanging curtain effect–again, with my waist disappearing.

    • Agree. This would look very unflattering on anyone who is well-endowed.

      • Actually I have a sweater in this style and it looks great and I am quite well endowed. It’s a pretty 1950s style. I normally wear it with a pencil skirt and I always get compliments on the style.

        • Actually the only cardi I own is in this style (well endowed lady speaking) and it’s very flattering.

      • lawyerette :

        Sweaters of this style make me look pregnant. In fact, the only time someone has said to me that I looked pregnant I was wearing a sweater like this (she was really convinced too, she asked “are you sure?” when I said I was not). I’m short, have a “straight” figure and DD.

        • surrounded by lawyers :

          “Are you sure?” ???? Just when you thought someone couldn’t be any more rude.

          • lawyerette :

            I know! This in front of my husband (then boyfriend) and 3 members of my immediate family. I definitely had a good cry after that.

          • surrounded by lawyers :

            Oh!! It was just the sweater though. We know that. She only embarrassed herself by saying that, especially in front of all your biggest fans.

        • Legally Brunette :

          Same thing happened to me a few years ago. I was wearing one of those empire tops that were all the craze and made almost everyone look pregnant. A secretary at the law firm asked me if I was pregnant and when I said no, she said — oh really? well, you really look pregnant. Um…..way to stick one’s foot even further into one’s mouth.

          • Oh, the horror.

          • Anon because this is shameful(ly funny) :

            I am kind of apple shaped and live in terror of this happening to me. However, when I look in the mirror from a certain angle, I can totally see that I do look pregnant, like maybe beginning of second trimester pregnant. So – and this is really bad – but when it’s raining and I want to park closer to the store sometimes I’ll park in the totally unenforceable “expectant mothers” space, and I figure I can get away with it. Also, if I have to pee during a flight and the fasten seatbelt light is on, I will put my hand on my belly ever so lightly as I sneak down the aisle. And, ok, I have done this once or twice when I don’t want to give up my seat to an older person on a crowded bus, too.

            So, all I’m sayin’ is, that empire waist top could work to your advantage.

        • Ok, I can do you one worse. I was wearing an empire waist poofy dress going through Greek airport security and the lady pulled me aside, *around* the scanners and told me she would pat me down because I was pregnant. THEN when I said that I wasn’t, she said “ohhhh, okay,” and patted me down anyway. Meanwhile, my husband of one week stared open mouthed at me. Interesting end to our honeymoon.

    • Makeup Junkie :

      This is how I wear my cardigans – buttoned at the top. I have a narrow waist and a large-ish chest, so buttoning this way makes me feel more…even. Most cardigans (even from Old Navy) are nipped in a bit at the waist so no curtain effect!

  4. Red is my “best color”, but there is almost nothing red in my closet – and the few red items I wear almost never. In the business world red makes a statement – I am not quite sure what the statement is, so I try to avoid. For work I like to stick to the colors men would wear to work, but I rock very feminine styles.

  5. Looks too Christmasy – the grey (?) looks green.

  6. Like, but don’t love. Just okay. Looks like a weekend cardigan to me….

  7. Threadjack: I was wondering how any of you picked doctors besides flipping through in-network doctors or through trial and error. Are there any good review sites or forums out there? I’ve been procrastinating on the health front and I just don’t know where to find a good doctor that I would keep returning to.

    Also, if anybody can recommend a good podiatrist, gynecologist, pulmonologist, cardiologist and physical therapy center in NYC (Manhattan, Queens or even Long Island), I’d really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

    • I’d also like to know the answer to this, since I recently moved to a new city and need a new gyno and GP.

    • I found mine via recommendations from coworkers who have the same insurance plan as I do. I think that’s your best bet. It isn’t unusual at my firm for a new female hire to email a few female coworkers and ask for doctor recommendations.

    • As a physician, I highly recommend you get personal recommendations. All the websites (health grades, vital signs, etc) have limited, biased information. It’s like restaurant reviews on yelp, only way way way more limited.

      Once you find a good primary care doctor, they can help you find all the specialists. But ask people. It’s a little awkward, especially when you are getting to know people at work, but they really are your best resources.

      • If your office has a an internal bulletin board, that might be a place to post a question like this. Also, I usually look at the doctor’s hospital affiliations. I try to pick someone who has privileges/affiliations at the better hospitals in the area.

    • Anon for this :

      I don’t have any special way for picking doctors, unfortunately. I just look at in-network doctors, location, and any reviews I can find online. There is a website – – which does doctor ratings and patient reviews.

      For a NYC ob-gyn, I go to Lorraine Chrisomalis. She’s on the UES. Very out of the way for me, but I like her. Recommended by a friend. She’s a solo practitioner, and frankly her office can be a bit flaky (lost an appointment once, seems to run late), but she’s smart, nice and occasionally has Saturday hours.

      If you’re looking for a dentist, I can’t recommend Madison Dental Group enough. I’ve always hated going to the dentist, but I love this practice.

      And agreed about asking your co-workers.

    • Do you have any friends or acquaintances in the area that are doctors, just not in the specialties you are looking for? If so, I would ask them first. And I would ask them who they would trust with their own lives, not just who they like. This is essentially how I found my PCP, who has helped me find specialists whenever needed.

      Coworkers is a good way though if you don’t know a doc you can get a recommendation from.

    • If you can get to Forest Hills, great gynocologist – Laura Kuperman. Great staff, too.
      Sorry I can’t be of help on others. Maybe Dr. Kuperman can refer you to someone. I have always had good luck with doctor referrals once I find a good base doctor.

    • I have done this by contacting professors at the local medical school…this make work best in a smaller town vs NYC, but they will know who is operating locally and who is good. I did this after a concussion…I wanted to find a primary care physician who would take it seriously and be up on the latest info. Local university has a sports medicine program, took me a few days of calling and reminding the secretary to ask for me, but the director there recommended someone locally (who he had actually taught in med school) and the doctor was fabulous.

    • My family has a lot of nurses. One of the ways we always use to decide on a doctor is to call the hospital and ask to speak to a nurse and run a few names of doctors at the hospital based on online information. Nurses are on the front lines and know which doctors are highly competent, good with patients, and respectful, and which half-ass their way through examinations and make dangerous mistakes. The nurses will rarely say anything negative, but you can tell by the way they react to names. “Dr. Smith? He’s very well educated and is chair of the department.” “Oh, Dr. Jones! She’s a wonderful doctor! Really skilled in this area.”

      Another good way to tell is to find out where a doctor has privileges. The top-notch hospitals are very selective in who has privileges at their facilities.

    • I always find it best to get a personal recommendation from a friend or acquaintance. I have, though, been unimpressed with a friend’s recs before. Then I noticed I was unimpressed with pretty much everything she recommended, so I figure we have different sensibilities and I should ask someone else.

      Angie’s List has doctor reviews if you don’t know anyone to ask.

      • I can recommend Jenny Delfin, a cardiologist/GP at Trinity NYU Medical Center. Very convenient if you work in the Financial District…

      • I’m curious about Angie’s List but it’s a paid service and I didn’t want to pay up only to find it has sparse or no reviews in the field I’m interested in. Any comments from users?

        • @Samantha: Angie’s List is terrific and well worth the $40(?) fee. Everyone I’ve ever hired off of AL (contractors, handymen, gardeners) has been great and trustworthy. BUT I’ve never used it for doctors/healthcare providers (and didn’t even know it had a section for them). Maybe Yelp??

    • I used to find an ob/gyn. It’s somewhat sparse but for my area I found a few good choices.
      Also your health insurance website may have a ‘find a doctor’ link which has either reviews or rankings. My health insurance has some ‘star-rated’ doctors or some such, based on number of patients and some other metrics.

    • I have a great pulminologist in Manhattan – Dr Emily DiMango (Columbia Univ Med Center). And I also highly recommend my gyno who at this point I believe sees most of my friends – Dr Hsiao Lieu (UWS). Good luck!

    • There aren’t many women in my office and I really don’t feel comfortable asking them anyway. I found my pcp through a friend and I’ve been pretty happy so I’ll continue quizzing people. Thank you all for your suggestions, they’re really helpful.

  8. Perfume Question :

    Posted this late yesterday and am hoping for more responses.

    Perfume question. I am almost out of my favorite/only perfume, which is an Eau de Toilette, and I’m thinking I’ll get the Eau de Parfum because it is supposed to last longer. But I noticed that according to the product description, the EDP isn’t made up of the same notes as the EDT. Will it be likely to smell basically the same and interact with my body chemistry the same way, or could the EDP be substantially different from the EDT?

    In case any of you are familiar with the specific fragrance, the perfume is Narciso Rodriguez for Her.

    • It might – this is something I would ask a sales associate, or head to Sephora and pick up a free sample.

      • Perfume Question :

        Yeah, I was trying to avoid the schlep to Sephora or a department store as there’s not one close to me, but it seems inevitable.

        • You could probably call Sephora or a department store and speak to someone at the perfume counter. Worth a shot before trying to go in person.

        • Sometimes, if you are reeaally nice, you can have someone at the counter make up a sample and mail it to you.

      • Disappointed Shopper :

        I’ve been shopping for perfume lately and all I get are confused looks when I ask anything more complex than how much it costs and what size does it come in. The other day I asked a sales person about the notes in a particular perfume and she had no idea what I was talking about. She didn’t even offer to try and find out. I got so frustrated, and this was at Dillards. I’ve also had this happen at Sephora, Ulta, and Macy’s. Their employees know NOTHING about perfume. Why do stores do this?

    • Makeup Junkie :

      The Eau de Parfum will likely be a bit more concentrated, so use caution the first few times you apply!

  9. Since it has different notes, it will definitely smell different. I would test the EDP before buying to see if you like it as much as the EDT.

    • Perfume Question :

      Thanks! I know next to nothing about perfume and I wasn’t sure if different notes meant a different smell or a different formula used to reach the same smell. I wish they wouldn’t give it the same name if it doesn’t smell the same.

  10. RANT!!
    I am a top firm laid off associate currently doing contract work for $25 and hour and doing pro bono work for someone making $45 and hour!


    • That sucks, but :

      Probably the client you are helping pro bono makes less than $25/hr. Helps to look on the sunny side…

      • She said the person makes $45/hr. So she’s making $20 an hour less than the person she’s doing free legal work for. I’d be weeping too.

    • You were a top firm associate so I really do think you will be able to land something good. Keep looking and most importantly, keep networking. After I was laid off last year, I think I met something like 30 people for coffee or lunch before I met the person who led me to my current position in a mid-size firm. Good luck!

      • If you don’t mind sharing… How did you initiate these meetings for lunch or coffee? Who did you decide to target?

        • I asked people I knew and sort-of knew if they could introduce me to their friends at law firms. When intro was made (usually by e-mail), I would send the new person an e-mail with a brief summary of my background and asking if I could meet for coffee or lunch. While talking to these people, I naturally learned about other employers or friends of theirs who are working at places where I did not have any contacts, so I asked if they wouldn’t mind introducing me those other people. At the same time, I was scanning job boards of every kind and when I found an opening at my current firm, I asked a couple of people in my network whether they knew anyone here and someone knew a partner here pretty well. I had lunch with that partner and expressed interest in the open position and the partner offered to personally hand my resume to the hiring attorney. Of course there were a number of leads that didn’t work out at all (and I spent tons of $$ treating others to coffee), but there’s no downside to meeting more people in your industry and telling everyone your “story” is good practice for an interview.

          • This is great advice. I also received the following advice when I first started networking right out of college: Whenever you meet someone, don’t leave without getting the phone numbers of at least two more people. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve applied this in situations where it doesn’t look like the person I’m presently networking with (over coffee/lunch/drinks etc) is in a position to help me directly. My challenge is figuring out a way to ask for those phone numbers (or, today, I guess getting email addresses would be more likely) without being pushy, harsh, rude, etc.

            Also, remember that networking doesn’t have to be a “straight line” process — meaning, each networking “date” you have doesn’t have to end with a promise of a job, interview, etc. Have a conversation with them about their personal life. For example, maybe you have a conversation about how they need a pet sitter, and a few days later you hear of a great new pet sitter in town. Email them about it, say “Hey, I remember you were looking for a pet sitter, and I’ve heard this person is great” or something like that. It’s a way to get them to remember you, and they will appreciate the fact that you were listening to everything they said — not just the stuff that could benefit you in your job search.

          • Are you the one who posted about meeting a partner for coffee a few months ago and was hoping to find a job out of it? I f you are then big congrats, it worked out for you! :)

            Even if you are not, still big congrats to you! :)

  11. Reminds me of a fab gray cardigan with black piping that I picked up from Forever 21…although mine has no pockets, full length sleeves, and fastens all the way down. Love this style, since it looks dressier than a plain cardigan but is more comfy than a blazer.

  12. Liz (Europe) :

    Sure, if you want to look like a christmas tree decoration.

    • AnonymousFRA :


      I think Bridget Jones’ mother will make her wear this to next year’s annual Turkey Curry Buffet.

      • AnonymousFRA for the win!

      • AtlantaAttorney :

        I’m confused about these comments (seriously) – red and grey look Christmasy?

      • Sick of snark :

        There’s really no need for so many snarky, “I hate it” type comments on these posts. A lot of posters like the items that Kat features, and these comments make them feel like sh-t and wonder if their style sense is really bad. If you don’t have anything constructive to say, please just don’t post instead of p-ssing all over Kat’s choices and other people’s tastes. If you want to criticize, please do so constructively in a way that adds to the discussion.

        Just my $0.02.

        • Sick of snark :

          Oops, sorry, I am not sure how I managed to double post this.

        • I actually find it helpful in the sense that if I like something and choose to buy it despite the snark, I can at least have an idea of what people might be saying behind my back. Judgmental, snarky people exist in the real world too.

          • To add to this, it’s funny in the blog context. It’s not like my best friend is wearing this and I am telling her it looks fabulous to her face and then saying it looks terrible when she’s not around. We are just engaging in discussion about an item of clothing that hypothetically, someone might purchase and wear. No harm, no foul if a few snarky comments are tossed around in this context.

  13. anon newbie bigfirm lawyer :

    Question for all you bigfirm lawyers out there (or anyone else really). How did you seek out work when you were first starting at your firm? I’m a second year but have only been at my firm a few months because of a clerkship. We have an assignment system, but it has not been working out for me (they say my department is a bit slow right now). I always heard you need to separately try to get work from the people whom you like because the assignment system can be a crapshoot. I have tried that by personally talking to or emailing people whom I had some connection to (or who I heard were working on a case that interested me). So far everyone’s been very nice and said they would think of me but nothing’s happened.

    Should I be showing up in people’s offices and saying “I want to work with you”? It’s very intimidating (as these would be very senior people), but already even did that to one female partner that seemed awesome and she agreed to meet with me and even said “I hope we work together sometime” but nothing’s happened (I also haven’t seen her at any of the events where I hoped to make myself known again). Am I wanting too much too soon? Any suggestions?

    • Hi,

      It sounds like you’re doing all the right things! The only thing I would suggest is to offer to help partners with whom you have good relationships (like this lady parter) on non-billable work, like writing an article or client development. Or come up with an article or client alert idea and pitch it to the parter — kind of like a, can you help me with this sort of thing?

      If you’re not busy anyway, at least its a good way to show some added value. Hopefully things will pick up soon and you’ll be looking back at this time wistfully when you’re there until 10 o’clock every night. ;-)

    • First, be realistic. It can take up to six months to have enough things on your plate to be “busy.” That said, you have to be proactive, especially at a large firm where you can get lost in the shuffle.

      I would (in fact, I do) continuously ask people if they have work (ask everyone once a week). You can go to partners or upper-level associates. I know it is intimidating but you have to do it, and most people will not be annoyed or angry that you are asking – it’s only a small interruption and if anything will probably raise their opinion of you. You need to remind them because their priority is not making sure that you’re busy (maybe it should be, but it’s not). Once you do some work on a project, you can follow-up with emails every other week or so to see if there’s something new to be done.

      Being bold and asking for work is a win-win: you might actually get work, and, even if you don’t, people will see that you’re a go-getter who wants to help. At my current review my hours were low but they said, we know you are constantly asking for work so it’s not your fault. I probably would have done the exact same amount of work if I never asked for work (it would have filtered down to me eventually) but I got the bonus of making a good impression.

    • Ballerina girl :

      I would only add a note of caution: some partners take repeatedly asking for work as some sort of negative commentary on their ability to bring in work. It’s weird and unlike anything I’d experienced prior to big firm life, but it’s something to keep in mind. Ask, but be upbeat about it–for example “I just wanted to introduce myself/check in and say hello. I’ve heard you do a lot of work in x and wanted to let you know that I would love the chance to work with you if something comes up.” Just my two cents.

      • Good advice. Important to read reactions and phrase politely (“can I help you with anything” is less likely to suggest blame than “is there any new work?”).

      • Yep – there’s a fine line between being assertive and proactive and coming accross as desperate and grasping. Try to stay on the right side of that line!

    • Keep your ear open for new files. Does your work group have weekly/biweekly meetings at which people discuss their work? If so, listen carefully and take note of any references to new work. Follow up by going to that partner’s/associate’s office after the meeting to ask if you can help. Be proactive. Don’t rely on e-mails – you need to actually go to people’s offices to make them think of you.

      If this continues to be an issue, then I would suggest visiting your work group leader, pointing out that you are not at capacity, and asking if he/she knows of anyone who is looking for help. In big law firms there are always new files coming down the pipeline and you need to pounce to get on them if you are new in the department.

      It is fine to do the pro bono work/knowledge management memos/precedents etc. as it keeps you occupied, but you need to build a reputation for solid billable work, and ultimately (and sadly) in Big Law it is the billable hours that count.

    • Definitely agree that it can take a while to get integrated into a group. I think the turning point is when you begin to get assigned to full cases/deals rather than getting piece-meal assignments farmed out by partners or other associates already working on the assignment. Big projects don’t get staffed every day, so just bide your time and keep networking within your firm so people will think of you when they are staffing a new project.
      Even then, you will still have slow periods from time to time between projects. I still struggle with these and wondering if I’ll ever get busy again (I always do, usually too much so). Unfortunately, it’s rare that I bill exactly 8.5 hours and walk out the door–it’s more often 5 or 11. :-)

    • Divaliscious11 :

      Relationship build with Senior Associate close to making partner. If they have already started generating business, and are still getting work from partners, there may be some work for you.
      If you can get credit for it, do some pro- Bono work that adds to your skill set. You can use this as an opportunity to network within the firm (Rare to find a lawyer who doesn’t like to be asked for advice.) just don’t take on too much, you don’t want to be too busy for billable work.

      Expand your practice. If lit, see if L&E needs any help. If transactional, Corp fin, public fin, RE all have transferable skill sets at your level. If you can hustle up work internally, that skill will be invaluable when you are looking for clients.

    • anon newbie bigfirm lawyer :

      Thanks ladies! This is really helpful advice. I will keep trying.

  14. Many cardigans fit me the way this cardigan is fitting the model — pulling around the hips. Does this happen to anyone else or do I just have big hips or too thick-waisted do I need to size up (then the shoulders are too big) or what? I can’t figure out what the problem is although it sounds like a simple issue of geometry.

    • Keep trying other brands and cuts of sweaters. They truly are all cut just a little differently, and you’ll find one that fits you like a charm. When that happens, buy it in every color.

      It took me years to stop feeling abnormal just because my body shape isn’t the one designers are cutting for this season. I was in a shop yesterday that had pants cut in three styles, “Classy,” “Curvy,” and “Sassy.” Turns out I am “Sassy” (ooooookay….) which represented less than 5% of the store’s styles. Somewhere there is a Sassy sweater for you :-)

      • I’m not the original poster, but I found this helpful and funny. Thanks Louise! When I’m frustrated with shopping, I just need to remember, “somewhere there is a Sassy piece of clothing for me.”

  15. EC MD – I agree with you in a limited way. True, we should not be picking doctors from the phone book. But there is a better way. (I used to work ina medical office before law school so I have a few insights.) I always try to select doctors who are on salary. This generally means doctors who are closely affiliated with a major medical school or something like Mayo Clinic. Start with an internal medicine doctor. Then for your other specialists you can often (but not always) be referred to other specialist sin the same university group. This I feel is my best hope of getting top doctors right down the line. But if you have an uncomon or serious condition and you know precisely or approximately what it is, you can easily research the Internet and see who are the top specialists in your geographic area who have published the most on that condition.

  16. Threadjack (sorry!):

    Does anyone have this skirt from Talbots?

    Just in case the link doesn’t work, it’s the stretch flannel ruffled-back skirt.

    I’m wondering how pronounced the ruffled-back is…there aren’t any pictures of the back, and it’s on final sale, so I don’t want to buy it and hate it. Any opinions would be helpful.

    Thanks ladies!

    • I looked at this skirt before and considered it, but it drove me nuts that you couldn’t see the back on the website!!! How can you sell something called “ruffled back” and not show the back. That is ridiculous!

    • Oh – I just received it (in the cassis) in the mail yesterday. It is not at all pronounced…of course, flattened by the shipping. I also got a cassis cardi for it, but the shading is just a bit “off,” and the cardi feels more polyester than anything. I wish they sitill had the fold down jacket for a suit look. The ruffled jacket has four pockets on it with ruffles, too much too much. But I like the skirt. The ruffles on the skirt are sort of folded on the same geometric plane of the back’s fabric … so it’s not a flamenco style. The ruffle is just about a 4×4 or 6×6 little panel at most. I am sorry it’s final sale…if you click on other pics of the suit jackets, you might get to see the back of the skirt…I know it was in a paper catalogue, which made me start watching for it on sale. Wish I could be of more help.

      • That actually was helpful, so thanks!

        • Ugh, posted in the wrong place.

          I bought it today in camel and it’s lovely – not over the top at all. “Eyes” got it right in terms of the size of the ruffles. The jacket looks like it might be too much (maybe it would work as a separate?) but the skirt is versatile. The ruffles placket really just reminded me of a click pleat I have on another skirt.

          • I just bought it in camel and gray, too! Can’t wait for it to arrive, and also appalled that Talbot’s didn’t post any shots online of the one distinguishing feature… wtf why the face?!

            I think I saw it somewhere in a paper catalog, too, but that was a while ago (or, it was a skirt I saw at AT like 7 years ago).

    • Anonymous :

      I can’t believe they advertise it as having a design feature in the back and don’t even show a picture of the back! What the heck.

      • I found this back view shot on another website,, and I thought I’d post it for anyone else who was wondering:

        Now that I’ve seen it, I don’t think it will do my rear end any favors. I was picturing something more like a ruffled hem.

  17. I just had a corporette moment. Love it, and ordered it.

  18. Sick of snark :

    There’s really no need for so many snarky, “I hate it” type comments on these posts. A lot of posters like the items that Kat features, and these comments make them feel like sh-t and wonder if their style sense is really bad. If you don’t have anything constructive to say, please just don’t post instead of p-ssing all over Kat’s choices and other people’s tastes. If you want to criticize, please do so constructively in a way that adds to the discussion.

    Just my $0.02.

    • I sort of want to know if lots of people love it/hate it because I am just sort of stepping into the business fashion waters, and don’t trust my own instincts yet. I like knowing what the range of opinions is on a particular item.

      • Sick of snark :

        I don’t mind reading people’s opinions. I mind reading comments like “ugghhh” or “fugly” or “hideous” or “that wouldn’t look good on anybody” or about Bridget Jones’ Christmas sweater or Sarah Palin’s intelligence that don’t add anything to the discussion and seem intended solely to bring other people down. I’ve seen dozens of posts like that over various threads in the past few weeks.

        • Anonymous :

          Why don’t you just ignore the comments you don’t like? I tend just to roll my eyes and move on. If someone thinks the sweater is fugly or reminds them of Sarah Palin, best to know before I buy it. It’s not like everyone will have time to post a well thought out critique of each piece of clothing.

          • I think we Corporettes also have to keep in mind that people of different age ranges can wear different things, look better in different things than the reader might, and certainly, as everyone writes, the work environment and dress code differs. As my mother used to say, “consider the source” when you’re reading comments. At least we don’t HAVE to post our ages and locations like you do when reviewing clothing on some vendors’ sites :)

          • Anonymous :

            Second Sick of Snark. I come for the fashion and for the comraderie. Comradrier = secret sisterly sassy sharing, yes, but… sometimes the lighthearted spunk becomes meanspirited snark. Love the sense of play but agree its best to play nice.

        • Anonymous :

          Agreed – there’s a difference between comments like “not my style” or “might not look good on the well-endowed” and comments which seem intended to draw attention to how clever the poster is. And what value does an anonymous post which just says “fugly” add?

          There are regular posters here who have a very different style than I do, but I don’t mind reading their opinions – obviously we all come here for input on fashion, but frankly the info is only valuable when it’s presented in some context.

    • Notalawyer :

      What bugs me is when people comment on garment solely based on the color. Do they not realize that different women look radically good (0r bad) in different colors? What is attractive on me may very well be totally unattractive on you. Color is subjective.

      And what is the ‘color of the moment’ and currently available in stores, may not suit every individual.

      It is more important to learn what suits you–color, shape, size etc.

      Just my 2 cents.

  19. Pill question :

    Threadjack: This isn’t even work related, I realize, but there are so many women on this site giving good advice, I thought I’d ask. I’m looking to go back on the pill but have had issues in the past with it triggering depression (even if only for a month or two). I’ve tried Ortho and Ortho-Lo but that’s about it. Has anyone been in a similar situation and had any good experiences with other brands? If so, please mention any other atypical side effects that you’ve noticed. Thanks!

    • My advice would be to pursue the newest options. The newer options allow you to skip periods for several months, which I found to be mood-lifting in itself. I also lost weight in the absence of period-related mood swings and cravings -definitely not depressing. Good luck!

    • middle-aged anon :

      I was in a similar situation when I got married, and bottom line: I haven’t dared touch BCPs since. The longer details are that I experienced major depression after graduating from college, went off the pill (thanks to no more student clinic), recovered, got married, and tried the pill again – and immediately felt depressive symptoms, so I stopped the pill, and haven’t touched them since. I think the brand was Ortho Tri-Cyclen.

      Now I’m contemplating an IUD since my friends swear by them, but I’m worried about how the hormone release will mess with my neurochemicals. (I had another major episode a few years ago.)

      • Anonymous :

        Be careful with IUDs, some people swear by them, but my friend had an extended hospital stay due to one. Of course everything has its risks, but I just wanted to say anecdotally I’ve heard more bad things than good. Not a doctor.

        • With an IUD, it’s just important to find a doctor who is experience with them. The trouble usually comes because so few doctors in the US are familiar with this method.

      • There are two types of IUDs – one with hormones and one without. Therefore, it you are sensitive to hormones, I would consider the one without (Paraguard). Everything has pluses and minuses, but I believe Paraguard is the only 99+% effective method without hormones other than sterilization.

        • I had the non-hormonal IUD for about 6 years and I loved it. It did hurt to have it inserted, but was far worth it to not have to mess with BC for years after. It did make my periods heavier though.

        • I have Paraguard right now for about 3 months and am anxious to make an appointment to have it taken out. It makes periods longer and constant spotting almost all month long. My cousin (a pharmacist) also told me that women who have not yet had kids have no business having IUDs inserted in the first place.

      • LInLondon :

        I have a Mirena and I love it! I’ve turned into one of those crazy internet proselytizers about it, haha. I haven’t had children and my insertion went REALLY well, though it can be difficult for some women. I read up on it a lot, prepared myself for the worst, and then was very pleasantly surprised. I had mine done at a birth control clinic, which I’d recommend, if possible, because the staff there probably do several a day.

        As other people have said, there’s a non-hormonal option, as well, which sounds like it might be a good choice for you. IUDs are great!

        • Ditto! My insertion was quite painful (my gyno said because I haven’t had children yet) but it was absolutely worth it. Got it in August 09, no periods since December 09, no other side effects.

    • Similar BC SItuatio :

      I am NuvaRing now and love it. I was on Desogen for a month-6 weeks and was horribly depressed, so I understand your concerns. It was so bad I just went off it mid-cycle because I couldn’t take it anymore. I’ve been using NuvaRing for about 3.5 years now and haven’t had any side effects. I haven’t had any luck with the birth controls that allow you to skip your period. I’ve also tried it with NuvaRing but I think the estrogen doses are just too low to work for me. On Seasonale I was spotting for 10 weeks during the third pack and having a lot of midcycle cramps. It was not worth it to me.

      • I was on various birth control pills throughout college and afterward and all of them gave me crazy mood swings and made me hysterical. I thought I wasn’t a good candidate for hormonal birth control at all but then a new doctor suggested NuvaRing, which I cannot recommend enough. No side effects for me, very low maintenance, ability to control the timing of your period a little bit (i.e. can double up on the rings once in a while if your period would otherwise fall during a vacation). I got off it earlier this year (after 3 or 4 years on) to conceive but plan to return to it if I were to go on BC again.

        • I had taken BCPs for about 8 years (FemCon, others), then switched to NuvaRing about a year ago. I loved it as well, no side effects, worked perfectly, incredible not to have to think about it. But then it started to cause melasma (on my face!) and dermatologist recommended I stop using it or melasma would only increase. Very disappointing!

      • Hear, hear for NuvaRing. I haven’t had any side effects for 4 years. Fortunately, I can skip periods with it. I do get some light spotting if it’s been 3 months or so without a period, so I settled on skipping every other one.

        Before then, I was on Ortho-Tri Cylcen and had some minor mood swings and lowered libido.

    • I couldn’t take BC pills for medical reasons un-related to depression — which also ruled out the patch, and the ring and have been using the Mirena IUD now for a couple of years (by using, I guess I mean its just in there…you don’t have to do anything).

      Mirena has a very low dosage of hormones associated with it, which was good for me because overall it has lower side effects. But, there are also IUDS, such as the copper IUDs, that have no hormones at all.

      You should sit down with your provider and discuss options beyond the pill as there are many. Some doctors will tell you that you shouldn’t use the Mirena IUD if you’ve never had a child because, if you get chlamydia while using Mirena, you can in some circumstances become infertile. But, my doctor took the view that as an adult who was fully informed of the risk that she would still recommend it to me. It’s been really great for me and I love not having the pill everyday.

      So yeah, my two cents I guess…

      • Issues with Mirena :

        One of the main issues with Mirena is that women who haven’t had children do not have a uterus large enough to accommodate the Mirena, and that’s where you get issues with expulsion and other trauma to the uterus. I really wanted to get it, but was told I could not accommodate it.

        • reg, but anon for this :

          I have been on a number of different birth control options. The pill made me mood swing-y and depressed as well. I got off the pill and tried an IUD about two years ago. I have not had children. My OB-GYN at the time told me that it was “more difficult” to insert in women who have not had children. Without getting specific, it was horrible. I felt extended discomfort for two months and was on prescription pain killers for that entire period of time. I had to have it removed and went onto NuvaRing. My current OB-GYN just put me on DepoProvera – the shot – because I was unhappy with the low sex drive I was experiencing. Depo has been good to me for the past month or so and I am pleased with it. I liked everything about NuvaRing, except for the one side effect, and am sure that it varies from person to person. My current OB-GYN also told me that my Mirena was probably inserted all kattywhompus (to use the medical term…) and that my body was rejecting it. Fortunately, she does not think I incurred any negative side effects as a result. Make sure that your OB-GYN has inserted a number of IUDs on women that have not had children if that is the route you choose.
          All my friends that have had kids and have IUDs adore them.

          • Currently on the pill but considering switching to Nuva Ring and am interested in the comment above re low sex drive. Have other people experienced this?

          • I am suffering a nonexistent sex drive too, and I think it’s due in part to my BCP. The situation is incredibly stressful in my relationship. This discussion is really interesting and I deeply appreciate everyone sharing.

          • reg, but anon for this :

            I have found that pretty much all hormonal birth controls lower my sex drive. It was a pretty big issue in my relationship as well, and I decided I had to do two things about it:
            1) Find the birth control with the least negative effect
            2) Commit to trying to overcome it in order to have a better relationship
            First, I would like to say that I am relatively sure that my birth control, even the Nuva Ring, was contributing to my low sex drive, because when I would take it out for the last week of the cycle, the problem went away. This was consistent. But, I also had the low sex drive issue with a number of different types of oral birth control meds, so for me, the problem was not isolated to the Nuva Ring alone.
            Depo has helped so far, and it might be because it is estrogen-free. I’m not a doctor, though, so I can’t be sure.
            For Anon, above, I know how stressful, and hurtful to your partner, the problem can be. It’s also no fun to talk about with anyone. I suggest switching your birth control and seeing if that helps. My OB-GYN suggested that I get off hormonal birth control altogether, and try a combo of natural planning and barrier methods. I did not feel comfortable with that, considering my SO and I are in no way prepared to have a baby. But it sure sounded appealing.

    • Anonymous :

      This was years ago, but I had similar problems with Ortho pills and switched to Trivora / Triphasil (one of those is the brand name, one is the generic; don’t know which). Cured the problem, and I never noticed any other side effects.

    • I think it is very important to sit down with your doctor and discuss all the options out there, not just the most frequently prescribed ones. I am prone to horrendous headaches that seem to be hormone related so I was on a pill that specifically targets people with headaches – and I couldn’t take the generic, because that caused other problems. After a few years, I realized that I was going through major mood swings around my period, talked to my doctor about other options, tried YAZ which did not work, and now am on a different generic (because my doctor took into account cost) that I take all year round, which seems to have solved both the headaches and the extreme moodiness. There are many more options out there than you think, you just need to find a doctor willing to help you explore them and find something that fits.

      • I agree with this advice. I also have to say that as a physician, I am shocked by some (some!! not all, not many, but some) OB-GYNs lack of knowledge about birth control options, or inability to let their own opinions get in the way of good medical practice. For instance, I know there are Gyns out there who will not place and IUD in a woman who doesn’t have children because they are concerned about the risk of complications causing infertility. While that was an issue in the 70s, it is so so so rare these days that a well informed patient can make an intelligent choice. If you are not getting the whole story from your GYN, or they’re steering you in a way you don’t feel comfortable, the find someone else. Birth control and fertility issues are not straightforward and are intertwined with other medical issues.

        On a personal level, I got accidently pregnant on Nuva-Ring (which is incredibly rare. I was also a surgery resident working 80 hours a week. I literally didn’t know it was possible — my husband and I just laugh and realize it was the first indication our son was stubborn). I now use Mirena, absolutely love it. it is the easiest thing in the world and I feel no systemic symptoms, but YMMV.

      • Having a knowledgeable doctor that will listen to you is key. I have used reclipsen/apri (two different generics of the same pill) for a while and have switched to the generic of lo ovral (I wanted something that was higher estrogen because of cysts). I think I may be getting killer headaches once a month since switching, but I cannot tell if it’s stress or something else. I was briefly on one pill in college that made be extremely depressed. I called my doctor and explained what I was feeling, but said I was willing to stick it out another month to see if things got better, and she said with all the options out there, why be miserable for any longer than I had to and tried something else. Make sure your doctor is willing to go through all different pills to find the right one and knows what it means to have more/less of each hormone so s/he’s not randomly prescribing you pills (I think I once got prescribed Loestrin 24 because they sent the doctor makeup bags…not going back there).

      • This! Also, as someone who spent 3 years trying to find the right BCP and finally concluding there isn’t one for me, remember that there are other BC options. Also, ask a lot of questions. BCP are so common, OB/GYN’s seem to just prescribe whatever they have a sample of. Because I moved during those three years, I had a doctor try to represcribe me the generic of a pill that had caused me major physical and emotional side-effects…even though I can come in with a list of the pills that didn’t work and their active ingredient content in case the doctor wasn’t familiar with them. BCP do mess with your hormones and one of your major bodily systems. It irks me how blase doctors are about them…especially b/c when your having problems with finding the right one, it can be extremely emotionally trying and difficult for your relationship as well (one pill completely killed my libido which my husband just loved).

        • whoops! “I had come in with” and “when you’re trying”…need to proofread better!

        • 3:28 anon :

          I just want to add that the doctor (actually, NP) that prescribed me the pill I’m currently on had a chart of the levels of each hormone in all the pills available, so she could figure out which combination to try given my objectives in using the pill and past experiences. Definitely ask your doc why s/he is prescribing the particular pill, and if the answer is “because it’s higher X,” or “because it’s 24 active pills,” and you don’t get why that matters for your situation, ask that, too.

      • I want to add a shout-out to barrier methods here. I’m married but we are happy using condoms. I’m wary of hormonal methods and their side effects (had one bad experience). Neither of us has a problem with barrier methods, so why go from pillar to post trying out all sorts of hormonal methods?
        This is pretty common among my countrymen but seems rare in the US.

        • I know plenty of women (including myself) who find that the hormonal methods help regulate hormonal symptoms- I know my life is just miserable without the hormonal regulation- 5 days of cramps, a long period with 2-3 days of very heavy bleeding, and a migraine that lasts up to 10 days. I have had two bad experiences, but it was worth it to find something that makes most of those problems go away.

    • Anon For This :

      I am on Yasmin and have been happily for about 3 years now. I was originally put on it because I needed something to help control skin issues and it’s one of the only pills that can work specifically for that. I started out on Ortho Tri Cylene but had some stomach issues with that, then I was moved to a pill called Portia and had similar issues. The gyn tried Yasmin after that and I’ve been happy with it ever since and don’t want to change. Some people swear by the progestin only version, Yaz, but I really like Yasmin… not many side effects for me (slightly lower dose hormones) and yet still the estrogen/progestin combination that makes the pill a bit more reliable.

  20. threadjack of appreciation! Thanks, Corporettes for posting fairly frequently about etsy. Just pulled the trigger on a lava bead necklace with “antique Israeli amber” pendant…via pay pal, as I’m cautious. Here’s hoping I’ll be as happy with the whole etsy thing as everyone seems to be…just ANOTHER reason to be a Corporette! :)

    • somewherecold :

      Agreed! I made my first etsy purchase a couple of weeks ago. It was a martingale collar for my dog, and I am really impressed with it (and the vendor’s concern with making sure I got the right size). I am thinking about getting flower girl necklaces from another etsy shop, and I can’t wait to get something for myself.

      • Me too. I think Etsy is going to be a problem for me… budgetarily. :( :)

  21. Am I the only person who was really troubled by the “Sarah Palin” post? It is neat that we can be anonymous and pick whatever nom we choose. But that semed to me to overstep some unspoken boundaries. If I posted under Michelle Obama’s name, would that be okay? Or Barbara Bush? Would like to know what others think. I am not averse to humor, but….

    • eh I tend to think when you have a reality tv show on TLC – you lose the right to such boundaries….

      • I think in the context of a couple of comments about this jacket seeming like political uniform wear, it was entirely harmless and did not trouble me. Honestly, I was just hoping that it would not evolve to include a regular poster who did “Sarah Palin” shtick or encourage many others to do the same.

        I would say the same thing if, e.g., a poster named Michelle Obama said something in a thread on, say, baring one’s arms.

        I know it’s a thin line between “spunky commentary,” as someone above put it, and snark; or silly joke vs. needless political commentary, but I think sometimes people are just a bit too sensitive. Sometimes lines get crossed, but lots of times I feel like people get called out for entirely harmless sentiments, too.

        • PS: @ Chix Pix — not implying this is one of those “too sensitive” times. Just observing a trend.

        • I think it greatly depends on what was said in the comment. If it was “Sarah Palin” saying something like these are all the rage in government these days or “Michelle Obama” saying I love sleeveless dresses, I think it would be a lesser issue. It was the rest of the comment that seemed out of place.

    • Anonymous :

      I was annoyed. I think Sarah Palin’s an idiot, but I normally don’t say that out loud unless I’m sure that I’m not going to offend anyone who voted for her, you know? There’s a time and a place, and that time and place seems to be on a political website, not a fashion/lifestyle blog.

      And I also wouldn’t complain at all if Palin’s stylist wanted to come work for me, pro bono of course…

      • Anonymous :

        Agree, agree. Always play, but always play nice.

        I also think truly folks who make hurtful/annoying comments genuinely don’t know they are doing so, because those who are hurt/annoyed usually don’t say anything. We assume others agree or don’t mind because they don’t say otherwise. But it sounds like some are saying, please don’t assume your version of neutral or obvious is not spiky and rude to them. Fair enough.

        It’s all meant in fun and we can modify to keep it thus.

    • What bothered me is that the joke was based entirely on sexist stereotypes (Pretty girls are dumb and only interested in clothes.) I get why people disagree with or dislike Sarah Palin, but I’m really shocked and a little bit ashamed to see people in modern times parroting such nasty stereotypes, particularly to see it on a site aimed a high achieving women (a category in which a female former mayor, governor, and vice presidential candidate would certainly fit.) I really hope that that didn’t come from a regular reader/commentor.

      • Anonymous :

        I thought it was poking fun at those stereotypes. Thought it was funny, especially after the law school vs. trade school argument yesterday.

      • To be fair, I think the joke was based on stereotypes about Sarah Palin, not sexist stereotypes. She’s the target of such jokes because she’s pretty famous for being an airhead. I think the comment was inappropriate for this forum, but it wasn’t sexist.

  22. It isn’t Sarah’s “right” that I am thinking about. It’s more the civility of the blog that’s at stake. I don’t mind snarky comments about fashion, because fashion sometimes invites that. But snark about people – whoever – there’s many a place for that – political cartoons? Certain other kinds of blogs? Late night TV? Nonetheless it was clever….and funny…..

    • It bothers me a bit how easy it is to “impersonate” someone here. For instance, I am not actually AIMS. I simply replaced my regular posting name with hers to make a point.

      I could say something really awful here under AIMS’ moniker and all the blame would be placed on her. How would that make her feel? (I picked AIMS because it is a unique name here, not for any other reason!)

      Obviously, Sarah Palin is unlikely to be reading Corporette, but this discussion is a good one about civility and etiquette. Even in the anonymous world, it is important to (as another anonymous commenter above said,) “Always play, but always play nice.” (You know, that could have been Sarah, or Kat, or even Ellen/Alan!)

      • Whoa! That would make me feel awful!
        (Real AIMS here).

        Good point. But — I think the alternative would be to make people register in order to comment & I don’t want to do that. I know Kat wouldn’t sell/market our information, but so many sites do & you just never know what happens to your e-mail address, etc., that I’d prefer a self-policing sort of approach, i.e, try not to be an ass — in person or online, but try to give people the benefit of the doubt, too, and not every comment that might initially read as “snarky” is necessarily intended to be that way.

        Anyway, please don’t be “me” anymore :)

  23. I bought it today in camel and it’s lovely – not over the top at all. “Eyes” got it right in terms of the size of the ruffles. The jacket looks like it might be too much (maybe it would work as a separate?) but the skirt is versatile. The ruffles placket really just reminded me of a click pleat I have on another skirt.

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