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Pictured: Monique Lhuillier for Royal Doulton “Étoile Platinum” Tan Espresso Cup and Saucer Set, available at Macy's for $90.
Deal of the weekend: Sale at Saks! — use code Friends3 at checkout for 25% off at saks.com.
Anon
I saw a girl walking down the street today in the dress featured in Wednesday’s TPS. She was probably 5’4″ or 5’5″, maybe a size 6? Looked great on her, the arms were fine, and it came to just above her knees. It’s also on sale at Macy’s this weekend, with a better pic and more info.
http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=397720&CategoryID=14514&LinkLoc=118&LinkType=SiteAd&AdID=508444
Zoe
I’m looking for advice on where to find affordable (floor-length) evening gowns in NYC. Also, if you happen to know of any brands/styles that are especially flattering for curvy women who want to be able to wear bras underneath….
AIMS
Not sure what creteria fits ‘affordable’ precisely but try Lohmans (there’s one on 17th & 7th, or thereabouts; check website for more.)
Also: the Filene’s Basement on 14th (and only 14th) sometimes has nice evening gowns.
Finally — and especially if you are planning to look this weekend — department stores like Bloomingdales & Lord &Taylor sometimes have much better options & fantastic sales [& the clothes are in better shape]. This weekend should have great deals (Columbus Day). If you’re going to L&T, go to their website first & print out a 15% off coupon. It works on almost all items. You should be able to find something. [Special note on L&T, do not go out to the ones in LI — the Manhattan store has much better options.]
Corporate Tool
I’ve actually had great luck at Macy’s, specifically the Calvin Klein line. I know I am starting to sound like a rep, but his stuff is classic and not too revealing.
associate
A while back we discussed how people feel when they see a Doctor with nice clothes or eye-catching jewlerly on. Some people said they didn’t want to feel like their doctor was getting rich of their misfortune and therefore didn’t appreciate the showy attire. Do people feel this way about their attorneys? I’ve heard that some people assume the attorney is bad if they’re not driving a nice car, while others would assume the attorney’s rate is to high if they are doing the same. Thoughts?
AM
I think with most professions you want to look like you invest in yourself and dress accordingly. When a doctor is encrusted in jewels and wearing outrageously nice clothes, I would wonder about that doctor’s focus, it should be on the patient, NOT the doctor’s own appearance or their new $10,000 suit. Further, because I generally dress down to go to the doctor, I would feel like a scrub and would seriously wonder why the doctor was so dressed up just for me. That said, if there’s a doctor conference or, in lawyer-world, an important trial or meeting – dressing up could be completely appropriate. Realistically, even if you dress really well, I think it’s easy to tone down your look so you don’t look like you just walked out of the pages of Vogue – cut down on the accessories and maybe aim for a majority of your clothes to be at Banana Republic level clothes rather than Chanel. More important than any of that is the right rapport with your client/patient – if a patient or client is wearing sweatpants while you rock that $10,000 suit, and if that patient or client looks uncomfortable because of it, it’s your job to make them comfortable. I think in some situations it would be appropriate to say something like “I know I’m a little overdressed, I had trial this morning which was great because it was the perfect excuse to wear this 40 carat diamond necklace my husband gave me last week.” – you know, if that works into your style. But then again, some doctors and lawyers just dress very very well and make no excuses – some clients/patients will like it, some will not – whether you’re okay with that is up to you…
Kathryn
I think it depends on the milieu. Down here in Columbia, African Americans seem to prefer labels, while whites are more suspicious–Ralph Lauren is the tops there. I noted that corporate types in Chicago and New York definitely liked tasteful expensive clothng, but not showy. Maine–very quiet. Stealth wealth if at all.
Cat
I think it depends on the type of work you do. When you meet with a doctor, it’s an inherently personal encounter – but attorneys vary from solo practitioner handling a will, or working in a public interest type position, to biglaw, where everything is fairly impersonal. I’m in biglaw, and women definitely wear their jewelry – giant engagement rings and all – and are not ashamed to wear expensive clothing (no logos, though, please)… but might feel differently if I was in a more one-on-one type role.
EM
My big complaint is with jewelry, not necessarily clothing. I feel doctors should be a little “hands on” with their patients, you know, feeling me up in the most professional way (for lumps and whatnot) and jewelry would really get in the way.
As far as being distracting, I think the same applies to any profession. A lot of bling really does detract from what you are saying.
So, to sum it up, I really don’t care what kind of car my attorney or doctor drives. I don’t care what they wear (though I would prefer it if the doctor wore a lab coat, and if they wanted to wear their Manolos, good for them). But a lot of jewelry is a really big turnoff. Particularly for a doctor, as health care is more of a “need” than having an attorney. I mean, I’m sick and coughing all over the place, may lose my job and my health insurance, and why am I staring into your 4 carat diamond earrings, a rock on your finger, a swinging necklace, and 3 jingly bracelets?
NB
I agree with those who have said that it depends on your area of law. You do want to look professional, but in biglaw you can wear the fancier stuff (and frankly, I like it when the female corporate partner is wearing her Chanel or Valentino suits), but that probably won’t work in front of a jury or if you are doing indigent criminal defense or elder law or any number of other fields.
I made the comment in the earlier thread about being put off by my doctor’s jewelry. For me, it’s a matter of context – I am more comfortable feeling like a plastic surgeon has a lot of bling than I was with seeing it in an oncologist. No one wants to feel like their misery is funding someone’s beach house. But if you are an associate at a big law firm, feel comfortable with the Louboutins – unless maybe you’re on a pro bono project.
E
As a surgeon who spends part of her time in a county hospital serving the indigent and devastatingly injured, I feel uncomfortable when I see my colleagues with their huge (HUGE!!) engagement rings. My (lovely but not huge) engagement ring often ends up on a chain around my neck, where it often gets tucked under my shirt collar. To me it’s a fine compromise between having my engagemnt ring and not flashing it in my patient’s face. Also the idea of having large, expensive jewelry that gets germy or bloody is just gross. The interaction between physician and patient is often intimate and is very commonly a little dirty, so keeping jewelry out of the way is a health issue as well.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Has anyone who is classified as a “plus” by our societies restrictive standards ever purchased Levi’s 512, 580, or 590’s? If so, what were you’re experiences? Also, I have a smaller waist and fuller hips so which would you recommend?
I ask because the jeans are on sale ($35 from $48) and there is free shipping on all orders until 10/13.
Anon
Has anyone who is classified as a “plus” size woman, by our society’s restrictive standards, ever purchased Levi’s jeans in style 512, 580 or 590? If so, what was your experience? Also, I would appreciate any guidance on which style would be best for someone with a small waist but full hips.
Anonymous
Did you really just edit someone’s post? That’s annoying.
Anonymous
Agreed. Wow.
ew.
And you did a poor job of it.
Cat
Even speaking as someone who notices and is annoyed by poor spelling/grammar, this is obnoxious. Save the proofreading for work.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
I apologize for the bad grammar. When I wrote the post I had been studying civil procedure (for a midterm on Monday) for seven hours and I just wanted to get my questions out and see if anyone had any suggestions for me. And to the person who corrected me if you’re going to do something that offensive grow some balls and state your name.
no apology needed
The maroon who corrected you was mostly wrong anyway. I wouldn’t have given my name either if I arbitrarily decided to change the meaning of an internet post (Ms. Basil didn’t say anything about appreciating anything, nor was it grammatically necessary that she do so) under the guise of a poorly-executed grammatical edit (the corrected post actually created a mistake by using an adjective and participle before a noun without also using a hyphen – the phrase should be “plus-sized woman” not “plus size woman” (Chicago Manual of Style Rule 7.90)).
Yup, even though I KNOW the Chicago Manual backward and forward (thank you Law Review), I use my powers for good, I don’t spend my time correcting colloquial internet message boards. Get a life.
C. Z.
Good luck on your civ pro midterm tomorrow, Ms. Basil!
In regards to your question, I’ve never purchased Levis so unfortunately can’t help, but you may want to check out: http://www.prettypear.com. The blogger there is a plus-sized woman and does a lot of denim reviews. I think she just recently did one about relatively affordable custom made jeans (I think they’re affordable, and I’m a law student too1!), that you may want to check out if you have a body that’s hard to fit.
Lynette
Yes, but I was looking forward to hearing someone’s response to Ms Frankweiler’s question.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Well just to let you all know, I took advantage of the sale and lack of shipping to order a pair of each. (If I don’t like them I can return them to a Levi’s store for the amount I paid.) When I get them I’ll put a compare and contrast post on my blog and let you guys know.
Kris
And by the way — that’s one of my all time favorite books!
jlf
I’m not technically a plus, but I own 3 pairs of the 512s in a size 12, and I really like them a lot.
anon
i grew up in a v. blue collar family and my parents’ would think a doctor in a very pricey get-up must be very successful and good at his job but they would also think that doctor would be completely unrelatable and not interested in listening to them…
Jess F.
My husband is a doctor and typically wears dress pants and a shirt and tie under his white coat. He does not wear anything pricey or flashy, but feels that being neatly dressed shows respect for his patients regardless of how they are dressed. I personally believe you can never go wrong with a neatly tailored professional look with just a hint of personal style.
Baby Face
People frequently think I’m 5 to 10 years younger than my true age. I worry this is affecting my career. I try to dress older (Ann Taylor, expensive purses, nice haircuts, etc), but it doesn’t seem to be changing this perception. My voice is a bit high, so I think that’s part of the issue. Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?
CM
I have this problem too. I’m in my mid-twenties and am frequently mistaken for a young teenager. I do my best to dress professionally and I’m told that I act very mature, but people are still shocked to find out my real age. After having had shoulder-length hair for most of my life, I did recently get a chin-length bob and that has seemed to help somewhat.
I know this affects my career because many of my coworkers are old enough to be my parents anyway, and they have a hard time taking me seriously. I’d appreciate any advice!
dr
I had the same problem – when I was entering grad school people thought I was still just a high school student. I immediately cut the teenager long hair short. It helped only a bit, as I was always working in offices and wore business clothing (in the years of John Molloy’s dress for success program0. Since then, I kept the hair shorter, dressed professionally as budget would permit, and allowed the intellect to dominate my discussions so what I said was worthwhile. Frankly, after people appreciated what I said, it was easy to ignore their surprise at my age. Now in middle age, it’s a nice treat…I also chose not to color my hair as my Italian heritage has had silver bits here and there long since I was 30. That helped too. Just plug through the commentary now, as you’ll be happy to be looking younger as you age.
Kathryn
Studies show that women who wear lipstick and earrings make more money. I suggest you try some larger gold stud-type earrings–the type that could be clip-ons, and some opaque lipstick in a darker–not too dark, but not pale pink color–something darker than your lips, in perhaps a brownish plum, or a brick red or so–Bobbi Brown or Nars or MAC asscociates should be able to help you find an “aging” lipstick and liner to wear under it.
Face powder? Foundation if you have freckles?
anon
I am also dealing with this problem. I have the same voice thing – especially on the phone, I sound like I’m 3 years old. A lot of this is very personal – the bob haircut would be a disaster for me b/c part of the problem is my face looking round-ish anyway.
I think the biggest key is to look very polished. Whatever haircut you get, it should be well-maintained lest you look like a teenager with overgrown hair. Clothes that fit very well are crucial – you don’t want to look like you’re borrowing your mother’s stuff. Along those lines, make-up is a must but I definitely go with very UNDERSTATED colors and tones b/c with anything too strong I end up looking like a 5-year-old who got into my mother’s vanity. Earrings and accessories can be v. useful b/c they contribute to the polished thing.
I stay away from anything that seems too trendy b/c you don’t want to look like you shop in the juniors section at Macys. I also generally stay away from things that are “cute” or flouncy or “girly.”
In the end, really, there’s not too much you can do to age yourself so it’s mostly up to your personality to get the message across. If you look like you’re trying too hard that can be worse – for example, I frequently wear pink – even though it’s a “girly” color rather than a “power” color – because to h-ll with anyone who would have a problem with it.
millelilly
Confidence is key. I have had the most trouble with my criminal clients thinking they can walk all over me because I look young and they think I am inexperienced. Which, ok, I am, having been practicing just over a year. My confidence level determines how people react to me. Own your intelligence and your experiences and your inner strength will show through.
For me, feminine suits work better than a traditionally cut suit. I try not to look too severe, because I feel and look like I am playing dress-up. Same with lipstick– I use a neutral, barely there lip stick because anything else looks like I am trying too hard.
The anonymous editor will have a ball with my post– too many hours working, not enough sleeping makes me sloppy.
Jane
One important consideration is your speech. If it’s full of “Ya’ know,” and “Ummmm,” and “Like . . . . , ” and if you end every sentence as a question?, you’ll sound young and won’t be viewed as professionally. Ask a trusted colleague or friend if your speech is contributing to your problem.
Karen
Jane makes a great point. I used to have trouble with looking younger and having a high voice, and at some point I decided to really focus on my use of “filler” words. I think I came across as much more professional afterward. The key is to take time to think about what you are going to say before you say it – the filler words come when you end up speaking before you’ve finished thinking. Speaking more slowly will give you gravitas and also allow you to make an effort to pitch your voice lower (this is possible – I did it in an acting class, can’t do it in all my speech but do make an effort when starting a phone conversation or meeting, etc. so I can make a better first impression).
Also, at some point in the last few years I lost my eager young female desire to please, and stopped smiling so much. I think this also helped. I still smile when appropriate, but I think before I smiled so much that I had an ingratiating-junior-person kind of vibe going that did not give me credibility.
jcb
I agree w this. I highly recommend reading “Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office” – it is the only helpful book of its type that I’ve come across. It helps you to focus on your behavior and stop acting like a little girl. I was blown away when I realized that I was guilty of a lot of the negative behaviors – like smiling and nodding while an older man is talking, the “grandfather” behavior. I looked around and realized that none of the men were doing the same. Ack. It’s a godsend and definitely helped me behave more professionally.
Sara
I work in a business casual office, and recently bought these tights for work:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3032730/0~2376776~2374327~6014317~6014318?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=category&searchtype=&pbo=6014318&P=3
Not sure whether they are okay for the office or too fishnet-like. Opinions?
anon
They’re nice but I personally wouldn’t wear them to work (biz-casual biglaw). They look too casual and also too young/trendy for work, IMO.
Cat
Agree – I would stick to a pattern that isn’t quite as busy.
NicMarie29
I think they work for a business casual office. I wear similar tights to work, as do some of the younger Partners. Of course, I always pair them with a knee length skirt and conservative top.
a possibly ridiculous question...
…I have never tried this, and I don’t even own a pair of textured tights like the ones above, but I’m wondering… could you layer these over more opaque tights to make them okay for the office? Would that just be more trouble than its worth? Realistically, I think it would drive me nuts, but maybe there’s a pair of breathtaking tights out there that would be worth it…
Less ridiculously – would these be okay if they were brown? Or maybe a not-too-dark navy? I think the nude color is less fishnetty than the black, but I also think it might make you look like you have some sort of skin condition…
anon
I’m having trouble picturing the textured tights over opaque tights look. Wouldn’t it be easier just to buy some tights with a more subtle print? Wearing two pairs of tights could be uncomfortable and may make your legs look thicker.
Maybe the textured tights would look better in dark brown or navy, but they’re still textured tights and I wouldn’t wear something like that unless other people at my firm did, and I’d still worry it’d look too trendy or young. And I agree that nude textured tights could look strange.
anon
I’ve seen this done in a magazine, actually with black hose under small weave black fishnets, and I thought it looked fantastic. I would consider that look work-appropriate with a small fishnet or other graphic, but I do wonder if it would be super uncomfortable if you were in two pairs of tights all day. On the other hand, you certainly would stay warm!
millelilly
Maybe with a longer skirt- at least knee-length. The problem that I see with these are that they will draw a lot of attention to your legs, which may send the wrong signals.
But in small doses, they are pretty and could work.
meme
The lace pattern strikes me as being more party/cocktail than work. I’d suggest veering toward a more graphic pattern for work.
JJ
Who sells the best value button-down shirts in terms of price/quality ratio? I’ve had some of the Victoria’s Secret shirts before (the stretch ones), and I’ve been pleased with them overall: they fit my shape well, the fabric was okay quality, etc. My only complaint was that the colour faded a bit over time (admittedly, after a lot of wear). I’ve heard raves on this site about the Brook’s Brother’s non-iron, machine-washable shirts, but what I’d like to know is this: how superior are they? For nearly $100 per shirt, for me, they’d have to be, essentially, twice the quality of the Victoria’s Secret shirts (i.e. virtually indestructible). I’ve heard good things about the Thomas Pink shirts as well, but again, how superior are they? Any other brands out there that give good value-for-money?
anon
I’ve been happy with a few Banana Republic button-downs that I bought a few months ago: http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=51166&vid=1&pid=627546&scid=627546112
I think they’re good quality and not expensive, esp on sale. For the ones I have, color hasn’t faded yet, and the wrinkles come out after washing/drying and hanging up, so the no-iron thing actually works. I’ve also heard that Brooks Bros & T. Pink have great shirts but never tried them either.
JJ
Thanks for the recommendation!
Kathryn
Lands End
Amber
I second BR! I got 2 of their no-iron button downs a couple of months ago on sale, and now I’m working on getting one in just about every color.
Kris
Eddie Bauer’s wrinkle resistant shirts are quite good, and long lasting (my favorite one finally gave up the ghost this week, but I had owned it for four or five years so have forgiven it). I also bought a new Talbot’s button down this season and am quite pleased with it so far.
dr
I used to swear by Nordstrom’s foxcroft line of button downs, they really did wash and wear without ironing. Don’t wear button downs any more but these really held up. They had racks of them for sale yesterday at my local brick/mortar storefront.
Salarygirl
I’m having issues with thick belts – I’ve now got a couple sweaters with a horrible ring of pilling around the waist from where my belt was. This seems to happen with every belt I own that isn’t a soft supple leather. Does this happen to anyone else? Has anyone found a way to avoid this?
jr
Justs a heads up on a sale I found. Colehaan.com has the nike air Carma almond closed toe pumps in the basic black on sale for $199–plus there is a code for an additional 30% off for Columbus Day. The code is 4DAYSALE. They have them in sizes 6, 9, 9.5 and 10. Even with shipping, they ended up 50% off the normal price I saw for the exact same shoes at Saks Saturday afternoon.
newassociate
be forewarned- the almond toe carmas have a narrow toe box. i am wearing these exact shoes right now and usually have no problems with other cole haans or other shoes, but the almonds… even after stretching the toe area is really too narrow.
Liz
Any suggestions on what to wear for a 3L composite picture? Obviously a suit, but what underneath? I was thinking a traditional button down, but wasn’t sure which color. Any advice for jewelry, hair, makeup etc?
anon
what’s a 3L composite picture? We didn’t do this at our school.
If it’s something that will be displayed in the future and could possibly be looked at 30 years from now, you may want to go for a look that’s more “timeless.”
composite
Do you know how it will be used? We did 1L composites that the professors and employers got copies of so that they could “get to know us” or whatever… Accordingly, those pictures most frequently turned up in 2×3″ (or smaller) black&white photocopies – under those conditions everyone looked exactly the same (suit-button-down-pearls), we might as well have been wearing uniforms. I would imagine the same problem would arise if they’re going to be printed in a high-school-yearbook-type context for posterity. If I were taking my 1L photo again I would wear something classic and suit-y but maybe add an interesting accessory – like a really pretty bulkyish necklace, or a pretty silk scarf around my neck – something that could distinguish me even in black&white, of course without getting too tacky…
MJ
Has anyone tried the Jones New York washable wool trousers? I am intrigued but it sounds too good to be true.
http://www.jny.com/Washable-Wool-Solid-Yoke-Pant/25077498,default,pd.html?cgid=25017050&itemNum=23&variantColor=JJ772XX&variantSizeClass=
Cat
I have not, although I recently discovered Talbot’s washable slacks (not wool, but a perfectly business-y finish, slight stretch, not shiny/cheap) and have had great success with cold/gentle, then hanging to dry. Not even a need to iron, except to touch up the cuffs.
anon
If the picture will be printed in a small size, or if it’s going to be black-and-white, I would consider wearing more makeup than you otherwise might. Especially if you typically go for light/understated colors, you risk looking washed out.
housecounsel
Hoping someone checks in and sees this: re Cole Haan shoes:
If they don’t have “Air” in the name, like all the ones I’ve ever bought do, are they comfortable? I’m looking at a pair from the “collection” on massive sale at the web site.
Anonymous
I have a pair of the Collection shoes that hurt my feet after a whole day of wear, but I think they may be a half size too small (they seem smaller than the equivalent size in the Air shoes). Hopefully they’ll break in to fit, though, because the quality is much better. The Collection pumps I have are made in Italy and the leather & workmanship is outstanding, while the Air pumps are made in China of cheaper (but still nice quality) materials.
Sharon
I generally find all Cole-Haan shoes to be very comfortable, regardless of whether they have the Air designation. I buy mine at DSW and wear them for years.