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Hooray for the weekend! This strappy print dress jumped out at me recently and now I kind of can't stop thinking about it. It looks great as styled here with strappy sandals, but they also have a picture of it styled with a moto jacket and booties — very cool/sexy, perfect for a date night. (I'm 90% sure there's a light beige backing against the mesh.) It's $149, available in sizes 2-14. Chelsea28 Strappy Print Dress
This looks like a nice plus-size version; note that if you're plus size and into the strappy look Charlotte Russe has a ton of stuff (but it's very short).
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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Wildkitten
Does anyone know where I would find the appropriate format for putting a legal notice in the newspaper? Can I call the court and ask them? This should be super simple (it’s supposed to be done pro se by non-lawyers) but I can’t seem to find the format to copy.
nutella
I would call the newspaper, actually.
Ellen
I would get examples from the Paper — Most notices, like forming an LLC, require specific disclosures. For this, you need to find the applicable Statue or Regulation and then match it up against the examples you see in the paper. This is VERY easy. Our firm, which is an “LLP” had to file something new a few month’s ago and we put it in the NEW YORK LAW JOURNAL. Check there with the advertising department, and then just copy and paste! YAY!!!!
thigh teeth
Usually, you just give the newspaper the information and they publish it in the proper format. Even our town’s little weekly paper has the templates for it.
Anonymous
Wildkitten, a few weeks ago I asked for recommendations for shoe repair and you responded with a cryptic message about “next door to the Lofton in Shaw.” I suspect you meant Cheryl Lofton, whom I’ve read about on Cap Hill Style. Were you reading quickly and thinking I was asking for tailor recs, or is there a shoe repair shop next to her? That’s closer to me than some of the recs I received but I’m not usually in that area so can’t visualize it quickly. Thanks. : )
Wildkitten
It’s next door. I believe it’s called Divine Shine.
Wildkitten
https://www.yelp.com/biz/a-divine-shine-washington
Anonymous
thanks again!
Anonymous
If the notice is already drafted and you just need to submit it to the newspaper, usually you can just email the notice/word doc or whatever to their legal ads department and they’ll send you back a draft proof.
ChiLaw
I used to ask the clerk, and they’d tell me which paper to call. The paper would input the info into their standard format.
Ugh.
So our apartment was burgled. They came into the building when the cleaning guy didn’t shut the door correctly and somehow broke into our apartment and stole thousands of dollars worth of stuff. IAMSOMAD. I feel violated. Rage-y. Hurt. Sad. Everything.
Also, apparently our renter’s insurance provider expects us to have pictures of everything that was stolen. Who has pictures of random stuff they own!? It just keeps getting better and better….
Anyway, those who this has happened to, is there anything I’m forgetting to do? Police report filed. Insurance claim in process. I feel like we should throw out anything that was open? What if they spit in our food/drinks? I just feel like there is something I’m missing…(you know, besides $5k worth of jewelry, electronics & clothes)
ELaw
Oh my gosh I’m so sorry!!
I haven’t experienced this so I could be missing something but it sounds like you’re doing what needs to be done. Replace the locks as well maybe? If the door was open they may not be compromised but I would all the same if it were me.
ELaw
Actually just thought of something: I had a bike stolen a few years back and I tracked down the serial number by calling the shop I bought it from. I included it in the police report so they could add it to the registry for items pawn shops aren’t supposed to accept. Realistically I don’t believe for a second that doing this made any difference whatsoever in the ability of the thief to resell the bike, but I did it anyway. If anything you had stolen might have had serial numbers (some of the electronics maybe?), you could try to do the same.
ouch
Very smart.
In my community, the police makes a list of stolen goods, and circulates it on a flyer to the nearby pawn shops every month. There is even a rule that the pawn shops are not supposed to sell new products for a few weeks, until the new list has been checked to see if they are stolen. Of course, there are pawn shops that overlook things…..
I have myself tracked down my stolen goods.
Someone broke into my workplace, and stole my stereo and my CD music collection. I knew some of the rare CDs in my collection, so I simply got the phone numbers of the music stores in my area that bought/sold 2nd hand CDs and started calling them. I knew that if someone admitted to buying one of my rare CDs that morning, it had to be mine.
The second place I called admitted they had just bought all of my collection that morning. Unbelievable. They were supposed to get a name/number and check IDs of all people they buy from, but somehow they “forgot” that morning… and “couldn’t remember” what he looked like… I was truly, truly amazed they admitted they had my CDs at all.
They gave all of them back to me. For free. As they should.
I read a lot of Encyclopedia Brown and Nancy Drew as a youngster.
It was so totally easy. The Police acted totally amazed when I told them. They did nothing of course.
EM
How did you get them back? I mean, did you go over there or tell them on the phone that they were yours? Did they ask for proof, give you a hard time, etc?
ouch
When they admitted over the phone they had my CDs (I was so so shocked they admitted it…..), I just said something like…. “can I come over to check them?” They said “yeah, come over….”
And then, went I went though the stack and clearly could recognize them all… he just gave them to me.
You could see the guilt and disappointment… and a bit of fear… in his face.
They didn’t give me a hard time. They didn’t ask for proof. But I could list 10 CDs that are not in most folks collections (very specialized classical music CDs, unique recordings), and there they were. And clearly, the store owner knew something was up and probably even knew they were stolen when he bought them. I had also given the CD names to the police of some of them, knowing how distinctive they were, so that was already documented.
It looked bad for the store.
I told the cops. They never looked into it. Never questioned the store owner. There was actually a spree of robberies at my workplace and multiple people had been robbed over a few months. Cops did nothing. You would have thought they would have wanted to at least but a trace of effort into stopping a serial robbery situation. But no.
Coach Laura
Good for you, Ouch. I read a ton of Nancy Drew when I was a kid, had my bicycle stolen when I was 12, tracked it down but never got it back because I had no proof.
Sidney
Yes! Check the pawn shops near you. I had jewelry stolen from my home several years ago. We found it in the local pawn shop. We had to actually buy it back, but at least they were returned to me (had a very high sentimental value and not replaceable). The good news is that the pawn shop had records that helped the police track down the thief and arrest him. He repaid me all of my out of pocket expenses (including what I had to pay the pawn shop) as part of his plea bargain.
ouch
So sorry to hear about this.
I was robbed last summer. 2nd floor condo that I was renting. They simply broke down 3 doors (2 outside building doors and then my door) in the middle of a Sunday afternoon and ransacked me, then my near neighbor’s place. My upstairs neighbor heard them, and even looked outside of her apartment to see what was going on….. and someone saw a suspicious person at the outside door to our building wing and purposeful stared at him to be able to ?ID him, but both did/said nothing. When I found out later they were witnesses, I pushed them hard to go to the police.
Police couldn’t care less about these break-ins.
I didn’t lose much except… my mother’s jewelry. She recently passed away, and this is heartbreaking for me.
The insurance claim shockingly went fine. I had a cap on Jewelry reimbursement as I would have paid for a pricey rider to have more coverage. In the end I was reimbursed about 5K. I had receipts for one of the priciest items, and the other pricey item I was able to find a pix of my mother wearing it. Then I looked online to see the cost of equivalent replacements. They just mailed me a check to cover the replacements, less the deductible.
You have done good things so far. I went so far as to cancel credit cards, warn my banks, and put an alert in with the credit monitoring companies. While I think my burglars were smash and grab, they definitely opened my desk and I keep all of my financials nearby.
I actually alerted building management, all of my neighbors, and held a safety meeting for my building and asked the police detective to come talk to us to give us advice on how to prevent another break-in. He pointed out several simple, and some more expensive, improvements that the building could do to improve the locks and deter criminals. He told us that in our area, simply having a Alarm System sign on the front lawn decreases the probability of a burglary. That may differ in our town
It never occurred to me to throw away anything ?? If they went through your kitchen and left something open.. well.. maybe I would.
I got an Alarm System recommended here – SimpliSafe.
I live alone. You are lucky you don’t, as I was jittery for quite awhile. I’ve been broken into twice…. in Boston and in my current place, and both in good areas.
At least this break-in was better than my last. My last one happened when I was home, alone, in bed, half-asleep…. and they broke down the door. Utterly terrifying.
ouch
And another change…
Make sure your doors both have true dead bolt locks, and I have double locks. Also you want to install something like this around your door knobs/locks to make it harder to break in your door.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/HANDS-ON-6-in-Gray-In-Swinging-Latch-Guard-U-9511/202639272?cm_mmc=SEM|THD|google|&mid=sF2BZPNpH|dc_mtid_8903tb925190_pcrid_111415680425_pkw__pmt__product_202639272_slid_&gclid=CjwKEAjwu8m-BRDM8KTcjdj8qy0SJACdjSZpdJ9DwnVfGn8Y7zEQg-hWmqUVUwb5mwEyVeW7dN6oqhoC1-bw_wcB
These are very effective, simple deterrents, per the police. The building should install them on the outer doors.
ELaw
What do you mean by true dead bolt?
anon
I think she means that each side can only be opened with a key (so you can’t break the window and throw the latch on the inside).
When we did this, we kept a key near the door (but not in the lock) in case we needed to exit the house quickly in an emergency.
ELaw
Gotcha. For a minute there I was like “wait do I not know what a dead bolt is?!”
ouch
When the door of my apartment was broken down, my landlord quickly hired someone to replace the broken lock and to install the latch guards. The lock guy installed one dead-bolt, said he would come back with the latch guards, and never returned… even though he was fully paid.
So my landlord had to hire someone else to finish the job. A much better, reliable, local locksmith. He took a look at the new “dead-bolt” that had been installed and said it wasn’t a dead-bolt. He opened my door, and turned the dead bolt to the lock position….. so that the long bolt is sticking out of the side of the door. He took his index finger, and with a gentle push was able to push the bolt back into its resting place. Took very little strength.
A dead bolt should not do this. Once it is engaged in a full locked position, it should never retract with pressure. Never. The key in the lock must be rotated to move it.
My lock was a cheap imitation. The locksmith said that a simple tool or simply a strong push against the door would have opened my imitation dead bolt. So it had to be removed and a much better one was installed.
It isn’t that much more expensive to get a better lock.
But remember, it doesn’t matter how strong a lock is… if the door is weak, or the door frame is not strong… the door can still be broken down without much difficult. In most cases, if someone wants to get into your home, they can. In a prior break in in a different apartment, when they broke down the door, the deadbolt was totally intact, but it just tore right out of the wooden door frame.
My burglars were strong…
So now I have a security system, and I have signs up in my windows and in my front lawn. It is a little bit of a deterrent, in my area. Also my latch guards and stronger locks, the police said, will also encourage the next burglar to choose a different apartment.
But I also do things differently in my home. I don’t keep valuable electronics out in the opening. And I don’t leave valuable jewelry out. The burglars quickly looked for my jewelry by going into my dressers, into my closets. They opened up every bag the could find looking for $$, I assume. My mother’s jewelry was stolen out my my bathroom medicine cabinet. I kept it there because I wore it the most. Bad hiding place, as the cops told me burglars like to check the medicine cabinets for drugs, which are popular to steal.
Fortunately, they didn’t find the remainder of my jewelry…. which I never wear anyway… and is kept in an atypical place.
I do not recommend leaving any valuable jewelry out, or in traditional storage places. Find a hiding place.
Now, I leave a cheap pair of fake diamond earrings (that actually look nice) in a beautiful jewelry box, in a traditional location for jewelry. If someone breaks in, I hope they quickly find those and leave, thinking they hit the jackpot.
emeralds
I’ve always wondered where the nontraditional hiding places for jewelry are. The kitchen? A coat closet? I have some family pieces that I’d be devastated to lose, but at the same time I want my jewelry easily accessible when I’m getting ready in the morning. Truly valuable special-occasion pieces are kept elsewhere, but I have some not-cheap stuff that’s in my standard rotation sitting right out in the open on my dresser.
Ugh. Never sure how to resolve this one.
OP, I’m so sorry that you’re going through this.
Ugh.
Unfortunately since we live in an apartment building we can’t get an alarm system for ourselves or do any changes to the setup of the locks/doors. The locks have been changed since the robbery, though.
Blonde Lawyer
You can get SimpliSafe! It is not hard wired. It is portable and you can take it with you when you move. I love it.
ouch
Yes, you can probably get SimpliSafe. It works via internet, involves no wiring.
And I would strongly recommend you meeting with building management to discuss safety, and changing doors to ones that must swing closed and lock etc.. They can do this.
Ugh.
I’ll have to look into that! I’m just so amazed that they snuck into our building because of the freaking cleaning guy. Like really?
Meg Murry
Are you certain the cleaning guy didn’t leave the door open for his buddies on purpose? When you say he left the door open, do you mean the door from the street into the building, or the door from the hallway into your apartment wasn’t properly locked?
anon
I live in an apartment and have home security through xfinity. It is all wireless and costs ~$30-40/mo.
Anonymous
We live in a secure building and the cleaning guy left the door to the street open (by accident, apparently he has a habit of doing this but it’s a side entrance so usually goes unnoticed) and they then broke into our apartment
jj
They have to repair that door. I would raise hell, and raise the issue of liability.
pugsnbourbon
I did not know that about deadbolts.
We have simplisafe and like it a lot – installed it after a burglary and it prevented a second break-in. It’s completely customizable and affordable. They are FAST. I don’t know how to roast chicken without filling the kitchen with smoke, and they had a truck at our door within five minutes of the alarm going off. Embarrassing but reassuring.
Cambridge/Somerville line
Can I ask what areas of Boston (or near Boston)? I live in Somerville and am anxious.
Beth
When this happened to me, it accelerated my “get a dog” timeline.
A friend had her home broken into and minus later someone was writing checks from her account- robbers stole checks from the BACK of her checkbook! So check those of you have them.
Beth
*months
ouch
After I was broken into, they broke into my neighbors place and assaulted her dog before robbing her :(
pugsnbourbon
Our dog was fine after our break-in – she likes people a lot, so she was probably most upset that the burglars weren’t playing with her. She’s also small.
The cop who took handled our report (who was very nice) said he had heard of burglars also taking friendly dogs. I mean, I felt bad about loosing some stuff, but if they’d taken our dog I don’t know what I would have done.
ELaw
WHAT?!?! People who break in steal dogs??
Things can be replaced. Having them stolen feels icky and violating, but they’re things. My dog though? I would sh!t a brick.
Beth
Wow. Our dog (that we were planning on getting that summer anyway but we ended up getting THAT WEEKEND) ended up being very territorial/protective. He was trained, so we would say “quiet” or “its OK” and he’d shut up, but he was so alert. One day some teens were goofing around and walking down our street at 2am. He barked the SECOND one was on our property (but stopped as soon as they got back on the sidewalk). He also alerted us when random surveyors were in our woods and hadn’t told us, and we knew every time a package was delivered (he would bark once if it was the regular guy (“hey, he’s here!”, and then start barking his head off if it was an unknown carrier “intruder alert!!”). He’s 60 lbs and black so can I still fear in strangers.
Note that we neither selected not trained these qualities- in fact, we worked hard with a trainer to make sure he didn’t get aggressive.
Ugh.
Thankfully I keep my checkbook well hidden and they were in a hurry so didn’t find it. Wish we could get a dog! Fiance has been begging for one, but no pets are permitted in the building.
Bonnie
So sorry. I wouldn’t throw out food; burglars are usually in and out quickly. Sit down and make an itemized list of everything that was taken. You’ll probably remember a few more things. When our place was burglarized we were able to send our insurance internet links to the items instead of photos.
Ugh.
So its odd. I assumed that I could send them links to similar things and that would be fine, but they want actual proof that we owned the things we are claiming we had? They asked for receipts and pictures of us wearing/using the stuff that was stolen. It seems like they almost think this is fraudulent, probably because we are very young.
Ugh.
But seriously, who takes pictures of their random electronics??? It is infuriating that I’m normal and don’t have pictures of our iPad or Xbox???
Anonymous
You might have the email receipt if you bought online? Or maybe an email exchange with a friend from six months ago when they asked which Ipad they should buy and you talk about how you like yours?
Libby
Our insurance agent had us do this for stuff that was stolen that we didn’t have receipts for, and I found a lot of the pictures I took of my cats or dog had the big stuff in the background. They were pretty understanding in general.
Spirograph
Apparently this is common for insurance. I made a photo inventory of all our stuff after a family member’s house fire and insurance fiasco last year. I’ve been meaning to make a nice spreadsheet with serial numbers and item descriptions to go with it, but at least the photos are done… It took maybe an hour. Thankfully I haven’t needed it (yet?).
Aunt Jamesina
For anyone still reading this on a Friday evening, a good and fairly quick way to document your stuff is to walk through your house and film key valuables, zooming in on details. I do this once a year and keep a backup on an external hard drive and the cloud.
KT
This is really normal for renters insurance. When we got our policy, our agent recommended taking pictures, but also doing a walk-through video of our home
jj
Actually, read your policy carefully. They may ask for you to provide them, if available, but they probably aren’t required. You just do the best you can.
I spent quite a bit of time, and just got everything I could. Pictures if I could find them, print out of item on the web if I couldn’t, receipts/credit card statements if I could figure it out etc…
It actually took me a week before I realized everything they had stolen.
Is it the cleaning guy for the building who messed up? How do you know? If so, the building management will be liable and you could file suit against them separately. Let your insurance company know and they can contact the building’s insurance company.
Ugh
They are on camera going in the entrance after the cleaning guy propped the door open. According to our lease we can’t hold them liable for any of this, event though it was their contractors fault.
The kicker is there is no proof these two suspicious people carrying backpacks (everything taken could fit in backpacks, they left the bigger, really expensive items) were the ones that actually robbed us because the cameras inside suck. They are only seen entering the building. It’s terrible.
Sydney Bristow
Completely random, but my stepmom had her purse stolen once and cancelled all the obvious things. About a year later she went to the library to find out she had several hundred dollars worth of fines. So if it was in your home, make sure it is still there or cancel it. Just in case.
Ugh.
Thanks! Luckily(?) I was at work, he was in class so we weren’t home meaning they didn’t get my work laptop, his laptop, neither of our phones, my engagement ring, wallets, keys, and those sort of things.
Julia
I love that the burglar was a reader.
REA
More likely took a bunch of DVDs and CDs and didn’t return them
Meg Murry
Do you have a filing cabinet or an obvious place where you would have financial information or passports, etc? You may want to see if that’s been disturbed at all, and possibly put credit holds on your accounts just in case. It wouldn’t have been hard for them to swipe an old tax return with your social security number on it, or your bank statement with your account number on it, etc.
I know others have said that robbers are usually in and out quickly, but I’m pretty sure they weren’t the one time we were robbed – the only thing they took were the electronics, and they took the time to carefully unscrew everything (rather than just cut the cords and run). We also found a paper bag under our coffee table with the remote controls in it, so we’re thinking they were planning to carry things out in that. However, about a week later we realized we couldn’t find my husbands bathrobe and were missing an old laundry basket (it was an old one that was different than all our others) that had been in the living room, and we’re pretty sure the thieves used that to hide the electronics they were carrying out. The police also thought it was usual that they didn’t take any of the alcohol sitting on the counter next to the back door they broke in – apparently (at least in the area we were in) that was often one of the things that got taken, especially if there weren’t a lot of otherwise valuable items like in our place.
Anonymous
Thankfully they didn’t get any of our personal information. We keep that stuff at our parents houses in their safes.
Blonde Lawyer
Watch Craigslist for your stuff too. My brother had a GPS taken out of his car via his sunroof and found it on Craigslist a few days later. The cops didn’t care but if it was something very sentimental, I’d buy it back off of Craigslist. I’m guessing sentimental jewelry is easier to prove as yours than a GPS too so the cops might care more.
Anonymous
We are monitoring craigslist and have sent pictures/serial numbers out to pawn shops
Canadienne
It never would have occurred to me that a multi unit dwelling would get burglarized. Why would someone break into my apartment when 100 feet away there is a million dollar home? Plus it seems more risky and like a lot more effort. That said I’m really sorry, dont let the burglars steal the comfort of ‘home’ for you. It’s important to have a sanctuary.
Anonymous
Because the cleaning guy left the door open so we were easy pickings
KT
Apartments are always major targets.for crooks, they’re easier.
Apartments are smaller, so it’s easier to get in, grab valuables and go. They can look up floor plans and know exactly where the master closer is to grab stuff.
And no one bats an eye at seeing a stranger in the hallway
Anonymous
Yeah, apartments are broken into the most where I live.
Lots of million+ homes here too. But you can run through an apartment in no time, even with the alarm going off, so they are hit more often.
Anon
Can we continue this from this morning – in case there are add’l readers this afternoon?
Lawyer salary poll – would you guys be willing to anonymously share your salaries? I feel like it is so hard to get an accurate sense of what people are actually making. Trying to decide if it is worth staying in the government or explore in-house. And it is way too awkward to ask friends. So this forum would be an amazing informal resource. And if you are willing to share — thank you!!!
Esp. helpful if you state when you graduated and if you’re NOT biglaw (no offense to biglaw folks — it’s just that it’s a published scale — it’s in house and govt where pay tends to be all over the map).
Anon
In-house, Atlanta, graduated 2006, 145K salary plus another ~85K ish annually in bonus (cash and stock). No billable hours since in-house, but I’m estimating I work 50 hours/week. Occasionally respond to emails in the evening, weekend work is very rare.
Anon
Oh, and 4% 401K match.
Anon
I am in-house in a HCOL area (Boston) making $130K plus bonuses (I think up to 10% of salary) and some equity. 4 years out, started at biglaw. Hours vary based on filings schedule (securities).
Anonymous
Non-profit, Minnesota, graduated four years ago and have been here since I graduated. No billable hours because it’s non-profit. I work 5 days a week (not always Monday to Friday with weekends off though). I don’t do work during non-work hours or take work home or have access to my work email or voicemail outside of working hours. I make $30,000 a year.
Anonymous
Also I work between 7 to 8 hours a day, so between 35 and 40 hours a week. No long hours or overtime and the office is closed on holidays.
Anon
Not trying to judge, just curious — is this a cause you truly believe in or did you take this job bc it was all you could get?
Anonymous
Why do you ask? I do believe in the cause but I certainly did not settle.
Anonymous
your not trying to judge comment couldn’t be more judgy if you tried…
Anon
Sorry if I’m judging — I just can’t imagine ANY cause on EARTH that I’d care about enough to willingly accept that job/salary.
anonaminke
You do realize that a vast majority of new non- engineering/business college grads are going into jobs that pay that, jobs that are part time, jobs that are hourly with no benefits, etc. etc. etc. This is largely a norm and not an outlier. And even a lot of business school grads have these kinds of positions. I would say that 80% of the people I knew in college got a job paying $40k or less.
Anonymous
May I ask where you live? I live in a low cost of living area where my salary is average for one person are not in poverty. My mortgage including property taxes is $650 a month for an 1800 sq. foot farmhouse with a huge front and backyard. Last year I bought a new truck outright and my retirement savings already hit 6 figures. I don’t mean to sound snarky but not every place is high cost of living like New York or San Francisco and my salary is more than enough for me to be comfortable and afford what I need/want. Plus I can’t beat the work life balance, 20 minute drive to work and living in the same place as all my family and friends.
Money isn’t the be all and end all.
Anonymous
Retirement fund has hit *halfway* to six figures.
I do just fine on my $30,000 salary.
Anonymous
Yeah but this poster is a lawyer. I totally agree that $30k is not an atypical salary for a recent college grad not in a STEM field, but it is a very atypical salary for someone who has been to law school and passed the bar.
TK
Fellow Minnesotan here. 2008 – 2013 law grads entered a very, very tough market. An employment law firm in town was offering $12/ hour for doc review. After 3 years of experience, I did 28 interviews (so, hundreds of applications) before receiving an offer at $42k a year, no health insurance, in 2012.
Things have improved somewhat but it was rough going there for a while. I’m glad this person found a job that supports a cause they believe in. Many of us weren’t able to – some ended up going to back to whatever they did before law school, one guy joined the army …
Minnesotan
+1
Minnesota is not kind for job seeking lawyers. Too many lawyers. Not enough jobs. Lawyer jobs have low salaries because of the competition for them. Especially in non-metro areas.
Anon
Yeah, it’s all about the money for some people.
Anonymous
The thing is though, there’s a lot more to finances than just the price of a home, and most things other than housing costs aren’t discounted that much in LCOL areas. What happens when you get dementia and need round-the-clock care that costs $25k a month? (that’s not a made up number…it’s actually the cost of my grandmother’s care). I get it, I live in a LCOL area too, and I love it, but I wouldn’t say you’re doing “just fine” financially if you have only $50k in retirement, unless you’re in your very early 20s.
Anonymous
Not that I have to justify my finances, but I am 28 and have saved that in 4 years. I also have accident and life insurance. I do have a rainy day account and my mortgage will be paid off when I am 40, at which point I will be able to pay even more towards my retirement and investments. I am getting a small raise in January and am capable of finding a job that pays more if I need more money. So thank you for your concern but I am doing just fine.
Blonde Lawyer
I’d venture to guess that 99% of the country can’t afford $25k/month dementia care. I make a good salary and I don’t think I will ever have enough savings to fund that time of long term care. I’ll spend down my assets and end up in a medicaid nursing home. Or I’ll stay at home without care and get lost in the winter and die. Most people with dementia live more than a year. Do you really think most people have $300,000 just laying around?
Anonymous
You are totally right Blonde Lawyer.
Sometimes when you are extremely high income and your lifestyle is such, your worries shift to places where most of us can’t even contemplate. The risk is you become out of touch with how normal people live.
Thank goodness we have some people who prioritize differently, are still responsible with their money, and make it work.
So many people just follow the money and it is …. such a waste…. for society.
Anonymous
Toronto. Small litigation firm. $120k plus $15k bonus. 1600 billable target. 40 hours most weeks. Awesome people, awesome work environment. Called to the bar in 2012.
Anon for this
In-house. Report to GC. Financial institution (but not one of the big banks). Texas. 165K and 30% merit bonus. 3% 401(k) match. Graduated from a top 20 law school in 2008.
Anon for this
Oh, and probably work 50 hours a week but never on weekends.
Jane
I work in state government in a Texas city, making $80k. I don’t pay anything for health insurance. I am required to pay into a pension, which I hope will still exist and pay out when I retire. No 401(k) match and no bonuses. I’m in the office about 35 hours per week, and never work nights, weekends, or holidays. I have great sick and vacation time benefits (12 and 15 days per year, respectively).
I graduated from lawschool in 2006, did Texas BigLaw for 5 years, and then took this job. When I started, I made $62.5k. Any past and future salary increases are completely contingent on funding decisions by the legislature.
Anon
Texas, in a job where law degree helpful/common but not required, $130K + bonus and standard benefits, 2008 grad. Roughly 50 hrs a week including regular travel. (2 years of biglaw post law school – would never go back despite the pay cut)
Anonymous
Big city (but smaller than NYC) litigation firm. I am ten years out of school but stayed home for several years with my kids. I make $140k with about a 20% bonus, no 401(k). I have some flexibility, some travel, some really long hours, some weekends. I am happy largely because I have no business development requirement and I love most of the work.
MDMom
Local government atty in hcol area. Make 108k plus 6 % 401k(well 403b technically) match. I usually work 40 hr week, get comp time for hours worked over 40. Im about to go part time to 20 hr/week at 54k. Benefits are reasonable.
I graduated in 2010.
Triangle Pose
In-house, Fortune 50 company, 197k (14% of that is stock, 14% is guaranteed cash bonus), graduated in 2013, 4.5% 401k match, normal health benefits, and $350 a month in free technology perks.
Coco
Graduated 2007, small plaintiffs’ firm in a specialized area in SF Bay Area, $90K. Bonus of $25K last year; will almost certainly be less this year.
Coco
No benefits. Hours vary from 40 to 60 /week.
buffybot
Related to that conversation of how people ‘totally know’ when someone is pregnant:
A well-meaning and socially awkward older gentleman coworker just started to ask me when I am due, saw the look on my face and wisely thought the better of it. “When are you…ah, um…[pats his own stomach, looks at mine, realizes with extreme terror that he has misread the situation]…oh, I mean, never mind.”
I am very not pregnant; in fact, I am starting my first round of IVF next week. I am, however, fatter than I would like to be. Clearly the shapeless shift dress is confusing to others and maybe not the best sartorial choice. On the other hand, I am kind of impressed that I have apparently mastered A Look that so handily stops some people in their tracks. Not that it helped me yesterday when a not-very-close friend I had not seen in 2 years asked me , “So, where are the babies, huh?”
This is going to be even more fun when the IVF meds bloat me up to look 4 months pregnant, yeah?
I hate everyone today. That is all.
Tetra
I’m so sorry! People should know never to do that, even if they think they know.
I have a couple of shift dresses that make me look like I have a baby bump. I was really embarrassed the first time I was offered a seat on the bus because of it, but now I don’t really care. They are comfy dresses!
Anonymous
Ok, I said this morning that I totally know when people are pregnant but I never actually SAY it. I’ve been asked if I’m pregnant too and it’s horrible. The worst/best was when I went to get a massage in Southeast Asia and I lay down (face up) on the table and the masseuse pointed at my stomach and said “Pregnant?” and I said “no, definitely not” and she said “but your belly sooo big!” I guess you have to give them props for not doing the awkward horrified face that Americans do and trying to figure out what to say next. They just own it and call you fat.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the IVF goes well!
EM
I had a co-worker and I knew the minute she walked in the door from her first doctor’s appointment. She was glowing. It was like a beacon was on her face. Of course, I also knew that she wanted children badly and had just begun to try. I couldn’t help myself, I asked her if she had any news to share. She said, “nope!” I asked her if, at some point, if there WAS news to share, would she? She smiled and said, “Absolutely!”
But really…it was written all over her face. And he was the sweetest little baby you ever saw….
Best of luck to you.
Anonymous
Aw, I love this story!
anon
Except… PLEASE don’t ask this. Please. Do not ask someone that you suspect is pregnant if she has news to share. Please never ask this.
EM
I’ve asked the same question to people if they told me they were going to play the lottery, or bid on a house, waiting for a cancellation at a hot restaurant….I made no comment on her appearance.
Anonymous
Girl no. Just don’t do it. If she had news she would tell you.
Ellen
Yay! Open thread’s! I love Open threads and this BEAUTIFUL DRESS! I have never heard of the websight, but will have to pay for this dress myself b/c it is NOT for work. But YAY anyway if I can find it in my size!!!!! I will also show Rosa b/c she wear’s stuff like this all the time in Chapaqua.
As for the OP, yes, men can be SO insensitive. I too was getting a little chunky in my belly and b/c of the dress I was wearing in Court, Opposing council said to me that he would go easy b/c I was pregenent. I said I was NOT and he got embarased. But we women NEVER comment on men’s shape’s, even tho most of them look like pears — thin on top and wider on the bottom. We think it but don’t say it — that they are schlubby. Why do men feel compelled to comment on our bodie’s? FOOEY on them! DOUBEL FOOEY on men that know we are not pregenant but coment anyway.
I am goeing to watch the WEINER movie this weekend with Myrna. She already saw it and think’s that Huma Abeden should have dumped him along time ago. Poor Huma– Dad even said she wss Humaliated by Anthony, all because of his Weiner. FOOEY!
nutella
This is why I never say anything and just avoid thinking about it entirely. I was so surprised by how many ‘hahaha, you’re delusional, we totally know’ people there were this morning. I have not known and I have suspected in the past, but generally shrug it off. As I said, a friend of mine has an illness that bloats her lower belly and sometimes makes her look like she has a little baby bump.
(By the way, history taught us not to be mean girls about this – see Queen Victoria and poor Lady Hastings who was also suspected for being pregnant and turned out to be very deathly ill.)
I am very close with my sister-in-law and she miscarried a few years ago at 5 months. She was visibly showing during her pregnancy, which meant that when she lost the baby, she was still showing. She went to buy some new clothes and quietly peeked her head out to ask for another size when the dressing room attendant burst out “Oh my god I love your baby bump! When are you due??” and she burst into tears.
Stop commenting on women’s bodies until you stop studying and inspecting them, too. It is not your business.
OP, those comments from this morning and yours make me sad and rage-y for you. I am sorry. Take care of yourself and your body. Feel what you need to feel and I hope one day you will be able to roll your eyes at people saying stupid things.
Anonymous
Ugh, get over yourself. It’s not mean girl to say you often know when people are pregnant before they announce. Literally 100% of the time a friend, co-worker or acquaintance has announced a pregnancy, I’ve already suspected it. Some people are just observant about the world around them; it doesn’t I’m scrutinizing their bodies or their lives anymore than I pay attention to anything else. I would notice if a male friend suddenly gained weight all in one place or adopted strange eating habits or acted strangely emotional. It’s obviously completely inappropriate to say anything about, because as you point out the person might have a medical condition that could mirror the symptoms of pregnancy, but I don’t see why noticing and suspecting someone is pregnant automatically makes you a terrible person.
Anonymous
Yup. I never say anything but I know. Because eyes.
Anonymous
This. I also notice when people get new glasses, shave off their beards, change their hairstyles, gain weight, lose weight, get new clothes…
Anonymous
It’s not be mean girl to think someone is pregnant, but the tone of the posts on the morning thread were mean girl.
Cornellian
Ugh, I’ve heard so many miscarriage stories like that. It physically hurts to imagine what those comments felt like for her, and I’ve never (knowingly?) lost a pregnancy.
It infuriates me how much women feel entitled to judge and comment on other women’s bodies. It seems like there’s a weird obsession with “catching” pregnancies. I’ve been called out more than once (when not pregnant) for drinking water/juice/whatever at a work event and pushed about whether I’m pregnant and oh my god I totally knew you were pregnant! Why in the world would you spend time thinking about that, and what good could that conversation possibly bring? Maybe I’m pregnant and worried about my job and not announcing. Maybe I just feel dehydrated. Maybe I am in treatment for alcohol abuse. Maybe I’m on chemo. There is literally no fact pattern where it’s a good idea to push.
Cc
I don’t understand this at all. No one this morning was saying that they say they know to people! But yes you can usually tell when a woman is pregnant. Some people are particularly observant and can Aleta’s tell. But the people who say “oh no one even knew” are misunderstanding- people know but do not say anything because it is rude af. That’s all people were saying this morning- they aren’t running around pointing at pregnant ladies yelling “future baby!”
Anonymous
Yes, this.
Cornellian
It turns me off that people treat it as some weird badge of honor to be able to properly scrutinize a woman’s body for something about her that that woman clearly doesn’t want to be public. I definitely see coworkers occasionally and wonder, but it seems wildly intrusive to drill down on your suspicious, even if you don’t say anything out loud.
It seems like priding yourself on knowing how old people are, even if they’ve had plastic surgery or are wearing lots of makeup. I’m sure I could pay attention to where my coworker’s belt is buckled and keep track of his weight, and it’s clearly not illegal, but it seems fundamentally intrusive and rude. (Not to mention people are clearly wrong all of the time. I had literally no one ask if I was pregnant in my first five months of pregnancy, but have been asked if I was pregnant probably 5 other times in my life when I wasn’t.)
It’s not really anyone else’s knowledge to have until the pregnant woman wants it to be.
Anonymous
The point is not that people are scrutinizing or monitoring other people’s bodies. You are required to look at a person’s face when you are having a conversation with her, and it’s awfully hard not to notice that her face is suddenly a different shape. The point is that women shouldn’t delude themselves into thinking they can conceal their pregnancies because at least some segment of the population will always notice.
Anonymous
Nobody was treating it as some special badge of honor, they were just saying most people are observant enough to notice. If you’re six months pregnant and think nobody knows you’re pregnant, you’re delusional, even if you’ve only gained a few pounds. Maybe there are some oblivious people out there who have know idea, but the vast majority of people know and are just being polite and not saying anything.
Anonymous
“no idea” not “know idea” ughhh I miss the edit feature.
Anonymous
I don’t take pride in it, nor does it take any effort to do. It is an obvious fact that I notice.
Anonymous
Honestly, I think it’s more or less the same as treating it as a badge of honour that you were 7 months pregnant but no one knew you were pregnant because you are very tall or only gained 2 pounds or whatever.
anon
What I found so rude was that, on an anonymous message board where people don’t actually see the other people commenting, certain posters insisted they could judge how another poster’s body looked better than she — or people who saw her — could. Yeah, most people are showing at six months, but some aren’t. Insisting that the latter group does not exist — to the extent of name-calling like “delusional” — is rude.
Cornellian
Agreed, agreed, agreed.
There definitely are the rare 6’1 fitness models who can hide it until 7 months. Some people show immediately. Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
Now that I’m out as pregnant and younger associates are asking me for advice about it, I’m wondering if it’s a good idea to find someone you trust who will (realistically) tell you whether you are starting to show/there is gossip/etc. I used two of my (recently pregnant) friends in my group and my assistant, because it was important to me that I control the message about my pregnancy and leave, and not end up in a reactive position or being gossiped about. Obviously not everyone has those people at their job, but I don’t think it’s a bad idea if you’re trying to keep it under wraps and not be outed.
It seems like 4 months is the average “plausible denial” point for most women. Yes, folks may wonder before then, but most women aren’t so undeniably pregnant by then that it’s an exercise in forced ignorance to not comment on it.
Cornellian
Agreed, 100x.
There is the odd woman who’s obvious at 6 weeks, and the rare 6’2 fitness model with a six pack at seven months, and most women are somewhere in between. There is no way to know which group any woman belongs to without spending time around her both before and during pregnancy. It seems like most women can hide it plausibly well for the first 4 months or so, on average, depending on how they normally dress/the season/etc. Of course other symptoms can ruin that plan (if you have severe morning sickness, etc).
I’ll trust the opinion of my close friends I used for the cover up, plus my measurements and photo log. I guess internet strangers can go on thinking they are the perfect judge of every other woman’s body.
I found the “cool, I’m not showing” thing awesome for the first couple months, since I didn’t want to miss assignments at work, and then it started to make me intensely anxious, especially given family history of miscarriages and my own health problems. I think there are very real reasons that women want to be able to hide it for as long as possible, and it’s rarely vanity.
MDMom
Such a strange conversation. I think there is probably a lot of confirmation bias because you are much more likely to remember when you suspected and were right than when you suspected and were wrong (also because someone not being pregnant is not a memorable event) unless you confronted them about it, which would probably be memorable for its awkwardness.
I told my work at 16 weeks and no one had any idea. Zero suspicion. I had no morning sickness and wasn’t showing. That said, I don’t think you can reasonably police what people think, but hopefully this thread will discourage anyone from ever vocalizing their suspicion.
Shopaholic
I gain my weight mostly in my belly and get bloated very easily… I’ve been asked if I was pregnant multiple times at work and it is so humiliating.
Also my friend recently delivered a baby and was having a bit of a tough recovery – a dad at her older kid’s school made a comment about how she looked like she still had babies in there…
WTF people.
All this to say, I commiserate with you OP.
lawsuited
Actual conversation between me and a taxi driver while I was 9 weeks pregnant (i.e. not showing):
Taxi driver: So, you’re going to be a mommy?
Me (because I’m never going to see this taxi driver again, and I can’t tell friends/family yet and I’m dying to tell someone!): Yes, I am!
Taxi: Thank god you’re not just fat.
Me: ….
Cornellian
… yes, thank god! what a jerk.
I told random women visiting from the other coast at a party when I was like 8 weeks because i couldn’t tell anyone else. I totally get that urge.
Sydney Bristow
Way back when I was size 0 and 16 years old, I had a middle aged man approach me at an office supply store and ask me when I was due. I was horrified. He wasn’t. I wish people would understand that they just shouldn’t comment.
A friend of mine is having trouble getting pregnant and got married last year. I know it has been bugging her how often her extended family asks her when they are going to have babies. I never realized how common it was, but in my circle of close friends and family it seems like 75% of the people who either have kids or want kids have either had trouble getting pregnant or have had at least 1 miscarriage. And obviously not everyone talks about it, so it could be higher than that.
Sydney Bristow
Hit post too soon. I’m sorry you are dealing with this and hope IVF goes well for you.
Anony
FWIW the IVF meds only bloated my gut. It was easier to hide that than all the blood draw bruises. Good luck!
ChiLaw
I was actually proud of myself once because someone was introducing me (in a professional situation no less!) as, “This is ChiLaw! She just got married and now….?” and I sort of shouted “NOPE JUST FAT!” My hope is that at least that one person won’t be doing that again.
Bombay
To the person who was asking for gift ideas for an Indian friend… please, no peanut butter. We have the stuff here (and it’s vile. I have no idea why Americans love it so much.) Better than Bouillon is a good idea, as are other cooking-type things. Even spice mixes (yes, I know, coals to Newcastle, but) like Old Bay or others she may not find in India might be a good idea. Go walk around Whole Foods or a reasonably nice grocery store and see what catches your eye? Oh, and don’t bother with chocolate that isn’t TJs or something smaller and/or local – it’s some kind of Rule that every relative coming from abroad brings a massive amount of cheap candy with them.
Honestly, we have most of what you might get in the States, so I would go local. Is there something she likes from your city or state that would survive a multiple-leg journey? Something she collects that you can add to (I collect magnets and Christmas ornaments, I would love any friend who gave me something they’d chosen for me) or something from your school. Other than that… cute stationery (post-it notes, stickers), sunscreen/makeup (the dark skin struggle is REAL, you find a broader range in Walgreens than here), or a cute thing she can use when she goes back (I have a tiny metal tray to store my Fitbit and earrings, perhaps something along those lines?) would all be good ideas.
Anon8
I didn’t realize there were other Indians that didn’t like peanut butter. I was born there, but moved to the U.S when I was 3. I remember as a kid trying peanut butter and jelly and not liking it.
NationalAnthem
I’ve been pondering something recently and was curious about the hive’s impression.
I went to a newly-opened restaurant/bar the other evening, and when I went to the restroom, instead of the general health code signs that my state requires and provides (wash your hands if you work here, don’t drink while pregnant), the restaurant had made their own custom signs. The one regarding avoiding alcohol during pregnancy had the normal language of “alcohol use during pregnancy may cause birth defects such as fetal alcohols syndrome” but then went on to state “AND you look like the devil drinking while pregnant.”
I was sort of taken aback by the sign – making a custom sign saying a pregnant woman looks like the devil while drinking struck me and unnecessary and rude, plus it really seemed like gratuitous judgment, especially from a business that is trying to cultivate a client base. Obviously people aren’t generally in favor of getting hammered while pregnant, but the sign just seemed uncalled for – I can’t imagine a circumstance where it would be appropriate to tell someone, specifically a customer, they look like the devil (aside from on Halloween :)).
So, if you went into a restaurant bathroom, would you find this sign alienating? Would it affect your view of the establishment? I just don’t get the cost-benefit analysis of putting the sign up, since it seems like there’s no upside and a real possible downside, but I might be overestimating people’s negative responses.
Anonymous
Yes, I definitely find it rude. It also just strikes me as kind of a weird, bizarre thing to say. A sign that says “If you consume any alcohol while you are pregnant, you are a TERRIBLE MOTHER” would be rude and judgy but basically what I would expect from an establishment that is trying to be controlling and paternalistic. But I don’t really understand the “looking like the devil” comment. It just seems so out of left field.
Anonymous
Where I live it is mandatory that all places establishments that serve alcohol (bars, restaurants, beer tents at concerts etc.) are required by law to have vusibly posted signs that warn of the dangers of drinking while pregnant along with a photo of a pregnant woman’s torso and stomach. Many also make their own signs. I don’t find this strange, unusual or insulting at all.
Anonymous
My take would be that the restaurant was trying to make light of the ridiculous governmentally required warning. I would take it as a sign that the place wants to be perceived as cool and hip.
Anon
“I would take it as a sign that the place wants to be perceived as cool and hip.”
This. This sign was hand-drawn by a dude in skinny jeans and a beard and possibly suspenders, and they are both trying too hard.
Anonymous
The restaurant probably serves “meticulously prepared, locally sourced food, served on artifacts of a romanticized industrial past, by people who take their fashion cues from daguerreotypes, to adults whose parents still pay their rent.” (from a recent New Yorker cartoon)
NationalAnthem
Haha the restaurant was definitely trying hard to be cool and hip. They did have the signs professionally printed though – the text was over a giant image of a pregnant woman’s belly.
And for the person below – no, not the bible belt, in the Northwest.
ELaw
+1
Trying waaaaayyyyy too hard.
Anon
Is this in a bible belt part of the country — where there is more discussion of devils and the like? If not — maybe they assumed people could take a joke?? Which I realize more and more people can’t do in our society any more. No – it would have NO effect on my view of the establishment.
Cornellian
It would absolutely affect my view of the restaurant. I would be inclined to lodge a complaint and never go back.
I agree that there is literally no upside to that sign unless your goal is to insult women (what pregnant woman is taking advice from rude bathroom signs??) and plenty of downsides.
anon
It strikes me as unnecessary, judgmental, and patriarchal for the government to require a restaurant to post a sign like that, period.
Cornellian
Yeah, the government sign is no better, but if a restaurant I’m patronizing is ignoring that requirement, I’d worry they were ignoring others. I definitely don’t fault restaurants for complying with (stupid) laws.
Anonymous
It wouldn’t if you’d had to take care of a child with FASD. Like if alcohol caused autism, nobody would be drinking while pregnant. FASD is not easier to treat/manage – I have no idea why people don’t take it seriously.
Cornellian
I think pretty much everyone takes it seriously, though. The few who don’t are not going to be helped by a bathroom sign. They made sense in the 80s when people didn’t realize that FASD was a real concern. They no longer do. Anyone who wasn’t living under a rock the last three decades knows it.
I’m asking earnestly, who do you think doesn’t take FASD seriously?
Anonymous
I used to work in child protection and there a lot of people who are not aware of FASD or don’t think it’s ‘that bad’ if they drink beer while pregnant or who are careless about their pregnancy status (no protection or tracking of periods to know if they are late). The hope with having signage in bathrooms at restaurants/bars is that people who are vaguely aware that they shouldn’t get drunk while pregnant and who are not sure of their pregnancy status might think twice about getting drunk.
Cornellian
to Anonymous at 4:21.
I grew up the daughter of a special ed teacher and then with foster siblings, and agree there are people out there who don’t think FASD is a big deal. And it is clearly a big deal for the tiny portion of the population that gets it. But none of the people I know who think that way are going to change their mind as a result of a sign, I think. There’s also, from my understanding, not great data on how common it is, because women who bear babies with FASD often also have a lot of other things going on (abuse, other harder drug use, young age, etc)
But there is also a very real tendency to make every choice a woman makes up for public discussion and criticism, which is exhausting, unfair, often not supported by data, and I’m sure not good for unborn children of these stressed out mothers. I’ve never seen a study that says that light drinking (say, half a glass of wine 3 times a week) produces less healthy babies or children, and I’ve seen several (I’m thinking of the Royal College of Obstetricians’ June 2012 release or the 2013 study in Alcohol and Alcoholism, i’ll try linking in a separate comment but those are the dates and titles) that say light drinking is actually HEALTHIER than drinking zero alcohol. Medical advice is very rarely able to be reduced to a one line sign in fourth-grade English in a bathroom, and I don’t think we keep those signs there because there is any evidence that they work or are a good summary of medical knowledge. I think there’s something a bit more sinister and sexist going on.
Anonymous
Ummm they totes do? But a drink every now and again doesn’t cause fetal alcohol syndrome? But thanks for the judgment?
Anonymous
There’s been so many debates about FASD here that I’m going to say this and then ignore this thread for the weekend. FASD is truly horrible and awful. It is lifelong. There is no known safe level for alcohol. It is 100% avoidable by not drinking during pregnancy.
Messages like “a drink every now and again” are not useful from a public health messaging perspective – is that a few times a week? a few times a month? just first trimester? just last trimester?
Anon
Yeah, there is no safe level of drinking during pregnancy. I get the urge to get defensive because women certainly are scrutinized for every little decision they make during pregnancy, but there has been so much misinformation about how “a drink or two” isn’t harmful. Sure, it’s probably not going to cause full-on FAS to have one drink during pregnancy, but that does not mean it is safe. It seems like a shame to just assume women know that when clearly many don’t (if they don’t care, that’s another story, but I’ll admit I would inwardly judge any well-educated woman who still put them away during pregnancy).
Libby
It’s a state law in Washington that requires the signs in every women’s bathroom. I thought it was bizarre when I first moved here. I doubt anyone has ever been convinced to change their drinking habits based on a sticker on the bathroom mirror.
Emergency Exit
My experience has been that within the first five to ten minutes of meeting a date, I can sense whether there’s any romantic potential between us. In the past, even if my feeling has been “not really” or “maybe?” I’ve been happy to fully engage in the date anyways and to enjoy meeting a new person who shares some common interests.
BUT, I’m an introvert, I’m online dating now, and I’m going out a lot more than I ever did before. I just don’t have the time or interest anymore in suffering through pointless dates. I’m finding that a lot of men flat-out lie on their profiles – about their age, height, body type, educational background, neighbourhood, the list goes ON. And while I don’t have any strict requirements for any of those areas, I am instantaneously disinterested and angry when I realize that someone has been dishonest – it’s an immediate dealbreaker for me that underscores that they are either ashamed of who they are or that they’re ok with manipulating others.
How do I (humanely) cut these dates short? I typically suggest coffee or drinks as a first date and mention that I have plans after. I am by nature very friendly, though, and my body language must not always betray how distinterested I am because the men I’m out with often take their time or try to order another round before I have the chance to make my exit. And if someone has lied, I’m really not even interested in being there for the first minute, so even the typical 30-60 feels much too long. Advice?
anon
“How do I (humanely) cut these dates short? I typically suggest coffee or drinks as a first date and mention that I have plans after. ”
This is really the best you can do. Have one drink and leave. Schedule them late-ish on week nights so you have work an excuse and there’s an easy end time. The issue is when dudes order a second drink because they down theirs, leaving you lagging. If you know you’re not feeling it, just slip in some lines like “oh, busy day at work tomorrow, can’t stay out late….I don’t have more than one drink on weeknights, haha can’t drink like I used to.”
January
+1. I understand your frustration/exhaustion with online dating, but if you both made the effort to go out, I think you have to spend at least 30 minutes together unless they are truly intolerable. I’m also not sure that cutting the dates super-short would ease your exhaustion – you still spent the time getting ready for the date and went out, which for me at least half the battle.
(But yeah – I know – I’ve been on at least one date where the chemistry was plainly lacking and the guy still wanted to know if I wanted to continue the date at another venue).
Anonymous
No. You have to stay for the length of drinking your coffee. Speak up if they try to order another round.
ELaw
+1
Anonymous
I guess I can see bailing immediately if the guy has lied about something like his age and it’s off by a lot, but eeesh ditching a guy because he’s lied about his body type seems super harsh. I thought it was kind of understand that most people exaggerate a little bit on dating s*tes, especially when it comes to their looks.
anon
I don’t think “disinterested” means what you think it means.
Marissa Russell
Maybe you should suggest Skyping these guys before you go on dates to test chemistry and see what they actually look like? It might save you from a wasted date altogether.
sunny day
Maybe not the first choice option, but if you’re having trouble politely extracting yourself and you really want to leave, call them out on their lying. You may be perceived as bitchy and judgmental, but they’re more likely to also want the date cut short.
I’d also be seriously annoyed by someone who said they lived downtown when they really lived in the suburbs, or vice versa. I’d date someone who lived either place, but the lying would really bother me.
Marissa Russell
Good point! I think making it just as awkward for them as it is for you by calling them out is a good solution.
Emergency Exit
I went on a date with a man this week who said in his profile (multiple times) that he was an environmental engineer. I’m an environmental scientist with a mom and dad who are both P.Engs and am actually taking part-time courses right now to get my environmental engineering degree.
I asked him point blank “so where did you get your engineering degree?” and he responded without even flinching “XYZ College”. In Canada, “college” is not used as synonymous with “university”. The two are separate institutions, colleges granting diplomas and universities granting degrees. He did a two-year environmental engineering technician diploma and was passing himself off very purposefully as someone who did a four-year environmental engineering degree. Sort of like a paralegal calling themself a lawyer or a hygienist calling themself a dentist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a paralegal or a hygienist or an environmental engineering technician, but don’t lie about it. My eyes almost rolled out of my head, especially since he had a chance to tell the truth.
Another guy a couple weeks ago told me it took him an hour and a half to get to the coffee shop. I was really confused because his profile said he lived in my same neighbourhood. Then he told me he hasn’t moved yet and won’t be until his condo closes next year.
Yes, it’s common that people embellish their online dating profiles, but I don’t understand why. If the first impression I have of you is that you’re a liar, it’s already over before it could even begin. Don’t you want to go out with people who will like you for you? As someone with a full-time job and part-time course load, free time is precious to me and I just can’t stand people wasting mine.
Anonymous
Eh… I think you’re being a little hard on the engineering guy…. He totally told you where he went to school and what he got. Wasn’t hiding from you, a person who would know.
It’s not like a paralegal calling themselves a lawyer, or a hygienist calling themselves a dentist. This is because lawyers and dentists do rigorous post-graduate degrees on top of a 4 year bachelors taking 3-4 years, and have extensive examinations they must pass after post-graduate training to practice with regular recertifications/Continuing ed (the bar for lawyers, the boards for dentists). So it’s much worse to lie about this.
So he should have said he’s an environmental scientist like you, maybe? Environmental engineering tech, I guess. Fair enough.
Then again, I fib about me.
I never tell guys I have 5 degrees (which I have, from 4 schools), until I’ve known them 5 years and have the ring on my finger. And that’s the truth.
I’m still single…
cc
maybe because that’s insane? I can’t even imagine if I was dating a guy for 4.5 years and he casually mentioned that there was a school he never mentioned going to. Like how do you talk about your friends from those programs? I get there are some guys who have a problem with accomplished wives/gf but there are plenty who are wonderful about it. Also a ring on the finger is no guarantee? I dunno this whole comment struck me as way out there.
Emergency Exit
Actually, to legally call yourself an engineer in Canada you need to have 5 years of post-graduate, directly relevant professional experience and to have passed licensing exams. So, your point is invalid. And my point was that he lied (and blatantly) all over his profile and still did not fully correct the lie when given the chance.
Emergency Exit
For engineers the bar/board is called the “P.Eng” – now you know.
Emergency Exit
Ugh, hit the wrong button. Should’ve said 4 years professional experience above. Anyways my point is don’t lie. If you’ve never been to university fine. But don’t say you have. So yeah environmental tech is also not the same and environmental scientist or especially not engineer and if you lie I’m going to assume you’re horrendously insecure about yourself (always the start of many more issues down the road in relationships).
Anonymous
Oh god get a grip. You aren’t there as his lawyer. This isn’t a legal representation.
Emergency Exit
If you’re the same Anonymous from above you seem to have a very rough relationship with the truth yourself. And yes his behaviour was fraudulent and the fact that it’s illegal was just my way of illustrating that it was an insignificant “white lie.”
Emergency Exit
*wasn’t
Canadienne
+1 Emergency Exit. Canada has very rigorous standards for professional certification. It really upsets me when people try to equate college and university. A diploma and a degree are not the same and I worked very hard for the privilege of putting the little letters behind my name.
Anonymous
cc…. relax. I’m exaggerating slightly to make a point that it is unfortunate that women are judged as being non-date-able by some due to their CV.
“What do you do?”…… is a brutal question for me when I meet a guy in a casual setting. Most guys cannot handle it. And the few guys who are similar to my background/training/career are not married to women like me. Just a fact in my circles.
Of COURSE if someone has been to a school I attended, or I’m telling a story it might come out. But no, I do not list my CV to every boyfriend I have. Why would I do that? If it comes out naturally, fine. Otherwise, friends are introduced as “friend from grad school/this city/this country/this activity blah blah….”.
People who name drop all the time irritate me.
Anonymous
How in the world is it namedropping to tell a four year bf where you went to school.
Cyncity
I also have to weigh in about the P.Eng comment. In Canada this is exactly the same as calling oneself a lawyer when in fact you are a paralegal. There are disciplinary actions for those who misrepresent themselves professionally.
HSAL
I won’t weigh in on the engineering guy, but I’d cut the non-local guy some slack. If he’s moving soon, it makes sense he’d want to try to connect with someone from where he plans on being, not where he’s leaving.
Anonymous
+1 I think what that guy did is totally reasonable.
Emergency Exit
Really? Most people want to know if you live three cities away. That’s a dealbreaker for me.
Anonymous
Then this was an appropriate deal breaker for you. It’s interesting as everyone is a bit different what their deal breakers are.
anonymous dater
@ Emergency Exit – everyone has deal breakers, and everyone is entitled to deal breakers, but you also just might want to chill a bit. One date with the wrong guy is not going to kill either of you.
Emergency Exit
Anonymous dater – yes, of course everyone has dealbreakers and of course one date with the wrong guy isn’t going to kill anyone (that’s the name of the dating game, going out with all kinds of people). My observation has been, though, that people think it’s ok to lie on online dating profiles and it’s really not. I’ve been basically manipulated into wasting entire weekend afternoons with people I would’ve never gone out with if I’d known they lived 150kms away, or that they lied about being “divorced” etc. You need to just tell it like it is so that people can assess for themselves whether they want to see you. You don’t get to make that choice on my behalf (“oh, I don’t REALLY live downtown yet but I will be in Christmas 2017…women will be ok with that right??”) and then expect me to be civil to you for 3 hours on a rare free Sunday afternoon.
Anon in Biglaw
What happened to the oh, “I need to leave now. (leave some cash for coffee or drink if you feel like it). Lovely meeting you. Have a good life. BYE!”
Pants, pants, pants
Hi ladies, I’ve always worn skirts or dresses to work soo two questions about work pants! Fwiw, mostly conservative work environment.
1. Just bought ankle pants! I live in NYC. How long can I wear these? Wondering if I could pull them off in fall and winter?
2. How should they fit in terms of tightness / looseness? Tighter than male pants right? (I don’t work with many women so I don’t have much to go off of here ha)
nona
1. Wear them until your ankles/feet get too cold?
2. This really depends on the style. Skinny cut pants are usually meant to be form fitting, though not tight enough that material in the front seam/zipper pulls. Boyfriend cuts are meant to be slouchy through the hips. Retro/Hepburn/wideleg pants are tailors but not form-fitting through the hips. You should feel comfortable standing up (they won’t fall off) and sitting down (not cutting into your body).
I mean, even if you don’t work with women, you encounter women wearing pants in other venues of your life, right? Or see pictures of them on the internet?
pugsnbourbon
1. I wear ankle pants all the time, but they hit at my actual ankle, not mid-shin like some ankle pants. They work with flats, heels and booties, so I wear them year-round.
2. Agree with Nona, this depends on the style. I’ve heard a “rule” that you should be able to slip two fingers comfortably between your body and the waistband, but I HATE anything tight on my belly so I buy pants that fit me looser in the waist.
Anonymous
I have the same question on #1. What do I do in the winter?? Wearing socks with booties… I have no idea. If you figure it out, let me know.
Anon
Does anyone have any tips for avoiding nausea while taking doxycycline for an infection? I have a call in to my doctor’s office, but I figured I’d see if the crowd here has any anecdata to share. Do things like ginger candies really work? I’m not really sure if I can take it with food or not (I asked the doctor that), but I’m ready to try anything at this point. TIA!
Anonymous
I take mine with food and it solves the problem. The infection still went away. I think it’s slightly more effective if you take it on an empty stomach but it made me too nauseous.
Cornellian
I haven’t taken that antibiotic, but I had a doctor explain to me once that milk products are the worst to take with antibiotics in terms of how much they lessen the effects. Maybe there’s a food that is more or less harmful to its efficacy? Milk was explained as a blanket bad for UTI antibiotic efficacy to me, but I have no idea if that’s true for all antibiotics.
January
Take with food (in my experience, something substantial like a bagel is necessary). But I just refuse to take doxy now. Doctors love me.
Dex
On it now. Take with food and water, and keep snacking lighting after you swallow the pill. Not guaranteed to do the trick but makes it more bearable for me.
Anon
I’m looking for some good open-front cardigans that hit at the hip or just above. I’d especially love if the fabric were thicker/more substantial feeling. It seems surprisingly hard to find this and I would love any tips!
Aunt Jamesina
The Eddie Bauer Christine cardigan is great and flattering. And I’m never a fan of Eddie Bauer or Land’s End and their ilk.
Whole Life Challenge
If anyone is interested in participating in the next Whole Life Challenge–a seven-point lifestyle challenge that runs for eight weeks starting September 16–you can use this link to join THE HIVE, a team I set up for readers of this site. (The link below provides me no personal benefit or remuneration of any kind other than having additional readers join in the challenge with me, which makes it much more enjoyable and successful.)
http://www.whole.lc/wlc1609/t/the-hive/join
You can also find THE HIVE on the WLC website through the “search for a team” function.
jj
Any bathrobe suggestions?
Just want a simple but good quality, knee-ish length, white, absorbent bathrobe.
AttiredAttorney
IKEA! Seriously. Got a beautiful, soft, white terry cloth/towel material robe for $20. It’s washed like a dream, and I won’t feel guilty at all about tossing ti when it gets gross in a year or two.
jj
Seriously?
I had no idea IKEA had clothing!
AttiredAttorney
Not exactly clothing, but they had bins of them in the bathroom accessories as part of their furniture displays. So not in the area with all the little household things near the exit, but just kind of randomly displayed in a bin the model bathrooms.
Anonymous
I like robes from Natori
Dumped
My fiancé left me on Sunday. It was our 2.5 month anniversary, we were engaged for 6 months and our wedding was in March on our 3rd anniversary. We had lived together for 6 months (a friend of his took a job overseas and had 7 months left on his lease so we took it over). The lease is up at the end of the month but he paid the last month of rent so I would have time to find a place before having to leave and don’t need to worry about owing the landlord anything. He also cancelled all of our wedding stuff and paid all the outstanding fees and costs so I don’t need to worry about any of that either.
On Sunday he moved out with all of his stuff. He did break up with me in person but his phone number is no longer in service when I call or text him, when I email him I get a delivery failure notification and I can no longer see him anywhere on Facebook. He had just taken a small buyout at his job because they were trying to downsize and he used that money to pay the rent for the last month and to pay all the costs of the wedding stuff that was cancelled. So I know he needs to work but I don’t even know if he is working or where. His family and our mutual friends say “no comment, have a good day” if I contact them and I don’t even know where he is staying. He set it up with the post office to have all his mail and stopped and rerouted and since we had nothing mutual they won’t tell me his new address or where it is going.
I didn’t see this coming at all. We were looking at condos or larger apartments and getting ready to combine our finances and open a joint bank account. He said that I mommied him too much and it got worse after we got engaged and moved in together and I pushed back if he tried to be independent or do things on his own, even if he tried to talk to me. I didn’t see it coming. I am crushed and just needed to vent and get it out.
Anonymous
I’m so sorry. I hope you are kind to yourself this weekend and in the coming months and have friends nearby who can be there to plan fun things to take your mind off things. But, and I say this gently, please stop worrying about his work situation. It is no longer your problem, and his friends and family are right – you are not owed his new address or contact information. He has a right to cut you out of his life, hurtful though it may be. Your focus should be on yourself now, getting on with your life and moving past this guy.
NationalAnthem
That is heartbreaking. I’m so sorry this happened to you and that you were blindsided like that. Please take care of yourself during this disorienting and tragic time.
Cornellian
That’s awful. I agree with 4:01 anonymous that you don’t need to worry about whether/where he’s working, unless you’re worried he’s somehow running up debt in your name or something like that.
So sorry.
Anon
So sorry to hear this. Give yourself time to grieve. Eat ice cream, be lazy, watch tv all day, take a yoga class, keep yourself busy with friends – do whatever makes you feel better. This is devastating, and you shouldn’t have to go through it, I’m so sorry that you are.
banana
I’m so sorry. I can’t even imagine how confusing and awful this would feel. I hope you’re concentrating on yourself and your own happiness now. Can you get out of town for a few days? It might help not to be around familiar places.
FP
Agreed, a change of scenery is really key for a change in perspective sometimes.
Godzilla
WHOA. I am so sorry this happened to you. Hugs and rawrs.
N
I’m so sorry. It’s true – now that you’re broken up, you don’t really have any “right” to know where he’s working or living or to be able to contact him. But the measures he’s taken to cut you out of his life strike me as very extreme. Take good care of yourself and vent to us whenever you need to. Hugs.
anon
I’m going to push back on this a little. They have a home together and they were presumably on the wedding vendor contracts together. Even though he says he cancelled everything, if my name is on a contract, I’m going to follow up and make sure. If there’s any sort of issue, it will require some back and forth between OP and her ex. It’s super ridiculous of him to think that he can just pack up and leave and not look back. That’s not how adulting works. When you entwine your life with someone else’s, there are always loose strings to handle.
N
I was trying to convey the same sentiment as you? I put “right” in air quotes because I saw it used above. Yes, theoretically once the relationship is over it’s over, but in this case I thought his behavior was extreme as I said.
Anon
That’s a good point. And I agree with N above that his actions are extreme. Definitely take care of yourself.
Anonymous
This. I’d contact the vendors yourself and confirm that he took care of all obligations.
Anonymous
She can follow up with the wedding vendors to confirm that she doesn’t owe anything. I’d probably get a statement from all the vendors in writing that the bill is satisfied/nothing is owed. Then she has no need for contact with the ex.
I agree you don’t normally cut off contact with someone you’ve been dating for three years and were engaged to, but it sounds like some of her behavior since the breakup has been a little crazy. Think about how people would respond if the genders were reversed. I think people would be very troubled by a man asking around all his ex-fiancee’s friends and family and even the post office in an effort to try and get her new address and contact information, especially if she’d described him as controlling during the relationship (which I think would be the gender-reversed version of the “mommying” he claims she did).
Dumped
Thank you everyone for the support.
When he broke up with me and left, he left copies of the cancellations of the things we had deposits on (venue, catering and DJ) along with the receipts that all costs were paid. He also left a copy of the receipt confirming the rent was paid and nothing was owing and I was covered until the end of the month when the lease ended. I followed up with the landlord, the venue, the catering company and the DJ received email confirmation with the same notices.
The lease was in both of our names but the DJ, caterer and venue had been booked under his name because we were going to collect travel points through his bank and credit card for a honeymoon or trip. He left me copies because he said that I couldn’t claim later that he left me stuck with the bill. We didn’t co-own anything else and had not yet combined or finances.
jj
Brutal… but incredibly organized. Shockingly so.
This is incredibly painful.
I strongly urge you to get outta town for awhile. I strongly urge you to get some counseling to simply work through this time, and help convince you to stop searching for him and to help let it go. There may be other issues to address, with time.
Wildkitten
I had a really hard breakup a month ago (not engaged, but had been living together for 5 years) and therapy has been really helpful for me.
Anonymous
He is obvi the worst. But stop stalking him. Why you calling around trying to find him? I get it, I feel the same impulse but you must reign it in.
CHJ
Ughhhhh so sorry. That is so painful. I suggest the stiff drink of your choice and loudly/badly singing Gotye’s Somebody That I Used to Know. And then chocolate chocolate chip ice cream.
lawsuited
This was a sudden and wholesale change, and I’m sure you’re still in shock. Surround yourself with family and friends that love you (even if that means taking a week off work to travel to see them) as the adjust to the news. It may feel harsh that he’s left you no way to contact him, but honestly, he’s given you the gift of a clean break. As much as a clean break hurts, it is still better for your soul than endless back-and-forth-ing.
In moments like these, I always think of that line from Shakespeare in Love:
“So what do we do?”
“Nothing. Strangely enough, it all turns out well.”
“How?”
“I don’t know. It’s a mystery.”
Lots of internet hugs to you!
Wildkitten
It sucks and it’s going to be okay.
Wildkitten
This is my mantra to get through this whole d*mn year.
Senior Attorney
See also, “The only way out is through.”
I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
Wildkitten
Thank you! I’m doing *much* better already.
Aunt Jamesina
Oh, I’m so, so sorry to hear this. It’s crushing that you were both talking about big future things while he was obviously carefully planning his exit. I hope you’re able to meet up with a sympathetic friend who will let you cry and let your hair down. Please take care of yourself and know that you will come out the other side. It hurts so much when it’s fresh, but it will heal. He’s a coward for blocking you at every step.
Aunt Jamesina
And I think that the way he covered his exit so fully indicates just how ashamed he is of himself. It’s self-preservation, but it’s an awful toll on you.
N
Yeah, you’ve captured what is really (I think) the most disturbing thing about this – how premeditated it was. OP had no idea this was coming and he was clearly giving her reason to believe that there would be a future, all the while packing his proverbial bags in secret. I can relate to how much it hurts because two months ago, I got a brand new job and when my boyfriend heard the good news he told me he was going to come over and celebrate. That night, he kept sending messages about how we were going to eat, drink, and be merry, but then showed up at my door with a bag of my things and told me he “wasn’t feeling it anymore.” He completely blindsided me and I wonder to this day whether he knew all along when he was sending me messages about celebrating that he was actually just coming to dump me or whether something made him decide to at the last second.
Anyways, I’m sorry OP.
Anonymous
Oh, N…. I’m so sorry. That feels like a punch in the stomach.
I wonder the same thing. But neither answer is good…
Take care of yourself this weekend. I hope each day is a little better.
AKB
Listen to me: You will be okay. I promise you. It doesn’t feel like it. But you will look back someday, and you won’t hurt. I had a brutal breakup in my 20s, and it took my years to get over it. But I got over it. And you will too. And you will be happy and productive and you will love and be loved.
Blonde Lawyer
I’m going to defend your stalking for a minute. You were planning your life with this person. He just disappeared on you. That’s not normal and in my book, it is cowardly. I think I’m showing my age here but I feel like we as a society have become really big on self-preservation and always feeling “comfortable” that we have leaned way too far into always looking out for number one. And yes, I would have the same feelings if the genders were reversed. I’d tell a girlfriend that she needs to find the courage to have a conversation or two with her fiance about what went wrong and why things were ended. She would owe that to him. And she would also owe it to him to hear his response to that. And to think for a minute whether that could change her mind. My only exception to this would be if there was actual abuse or she was really scared for her physical safety. He left you with nothing but questions. Why did he do this? Where did he go? Is he with someone else now? If so, that would at least give you some closure. I’m not saying badger his family relentlessly or anything but I agree that you are owed some answers.
I do very limited divorce law and one case will always stand out to me. Long term marriage, kids out of the nest and guy ups and moves far away without explanation to wife and I represented him. Wife wasn’t represented. He was offering her a very generous settlement. My state is basically 50/50 and he was offering her 75/25. She basically said to me, yup, this is a great deal but I’m not signing these papers. I refuse to believe he is actually divorcing me. He’s having a mid life crisis. He’ll be back. He didn’t come back and a year later she signed the papers. I pushed him to talk with her, give her an explanation, give her some closure, make her see that it’s real. He wanted the divorce sped up and I thought that might help. I think he just felt really guilty and didn’t want to see her upset and that’s why he couldn’t talk to her.
Anonymous
Thank you for your kind works.
He did break up with me and ended it in person. He said it was because I “mommied” him and pushed back when he brought it up or tried to be independent. He said it got worse once we got engaged and moved in together and since I wouldn’t listen he had to leave because he couldn’t married someone who treated him like a child and he didn’t want resentment to build because he felt smothered and trapped.
There was no abuse by either of us and as far as I know he wasn’t seeing someone else but I was blindsided so I don’t know. He said he paid the rent and the costs for cancelling anything so I wouldn’t be affected financially and he also gave me a letter authorizing me to keep the ring even though in our state he could legally take it back. I really do wish I could talk to him but as I said he has disappeared and completely cut contact.
Anonymous
How was his parents’ marriage? Role models of childhood, and their relevance/importance has an incredible effect long-term. Sometimes there are bigger things at work, that you can’t really appreciate without knowing this.
Do any of his statements ring true for you?
Dumped
His parents have been married for years and from what I saw they were totally devoted to each other. He comes from a family with a strong bond who are good to each other and he always says his father was a good hands on father.
I would say that I am a planner and am organized whereas he would just wing it and be relaxed. I was shocked when he said I mommied him and totally blindsided by the whole thing.
Anonymous
Interesting you say he would just wing it/be relaxed as a personality type. His break-up is the total opposite of that.
The organization behind his breakup is …. shocking. Not at all like someone who wings anything. It is like someone who is very detail oriented/meticulous/obsessive…… or who is very anxious and feels this level of detail is now necessary (because he is fearful of your response?). It is really unusual.
And horrible. I’m so sorry…
Blonde Lawyer
I’ll give you one more story of someone else being blind sided. I think it helps sometimes to know you aren’t the only person this has happened to and it has nothing to do with you. My good friend in high school had what everyone thought was the perfect family. Dad and mom both volunteered at the church together. Mom taught and dad was a reader. Friend caught dad cheating. I can’t remember if dad told mom or not but they were still on the improving track.
One day, mom gets home from work and the downstairs is completely empty. She freaks out that they were robbed and calls the cops. She doesn’t even go upstairs because she’s afraid the burglars could still be there. The cops are clearing the house and notice that the kids rooms are untouched and mom’s jewelry is untouched. They notice there are only women’s clothes in the closet in the master bedroom. They tell her that they are pretty sure her husband is the one that emptied the house because a robber would have taken the kids electronics and her jewelry too. She was adamant that it must have been a sentimental robber that didn’t want to take from the kids. Maybe he needed men’s clothing and that’s why he took dad’s clothes. Dad never came home from work.
Police interviewed the neighbors and sure enough they had seen him out there with a Uhaul and movers. He even took the blender. Not only did he blindside mom, he took all of their joint property and fled to another state.
Their oldest child got the last laugh though. They lived in a state that awarded child support until the kid stops attending full time education. She’s really smart and able to get lots of scholarships. She stayed in school for 12 years or something and has a bunch of degrees now all to spite her dad.
Coach Laura
Blonde Lawyer – those are interesting stories. I had a coworker who was married and had had 7-8 early miscarriages. When she finally was able to carry to term, she arrived home 8 months pregnant to an almost- empty house. Her clothes were there along with one chair in the living room and some assorted pots and pans. (Of course this is her side only.) When she asked him why he left, he said he couldn’t stand the idea of being a dad. She asked why he let her go through all of that and he said that he never thought she’d carry to term. The baby was born healthy and beautiful but the dad never saw her. I still to this day wonder (a) if it was true and (b) if he did something to make her miscarry or if it truly was nature.
To OP – if he has forwarded his mail, you could write and mail him a letter to your address and write “please forward” on it. He may get it and ignore it or he may reply but it’s worth a try. I don’t think it’s stalker-ish to want to have one last “loose ends” talk but you may never get that closure. Take care of yourself.
Anonymous
I tried mailing him a letter because he is getting his mail sent somewhere else but it was returned to me at home by a courier from a law firm who didn’t know or wouldn’t tell me anything.
Thanks to all of you for the kind words and support.
N
Take comfort in knowing that even though this is unbearable right now, he’s in a weird way doing you a favour by just disappearing off the face of your earth. You don’t want anything to do with anyone this cruel/selfish. It took me about a month and a half to get to that point after my blindside, but I’m there now and I can hold my head high that I would’ve never treated him the way he did me at the end. Ugh I really feel you OP and I’m rooting for you hard. Also, I doubt you live in Ottawa but if you do I’d take you out for a drink.
Lo
Darling, this all sounds like the problem was him and not you. Breaking off an engagement for the thin excuses he gave seem very flimsy and cowardly. Honestly, please be relieved. In my opinion, a man that would behave this way is not a man that is ready for marriage and the tests and trials that come with it. Nor is he the kind of man that can face opposition head on when it counts. Nor would one wanted to be married into a family that feels you aren’t owed an explaination. It will be hard. Yes, give yourself time to grieve, to cry, to shout, to wail, to eat, to exercise, to travel to do WHATEVER (non harmful of course), that allows you to purge this pain and process it. Then, dust yourself off and keep your head up. Keep moving. Life is too short and time is too precious to waste looking in the rear-view mirror. One day, it will all make sense, and one day, youll wake up and this will no longer be a raw, pain point. God bless you and for me, faith is what has kept me strong. You sound like you could use some faith, some prayer and some time to yourself. Wish you all the best <3
Anonymous
Just chiming in with a short novel here to add that I also don’t think you’re weird for wanting some kind of closure. It seems unfair right now that it’s so much easier for the person who left, who was clearly planning an exit, to simply execute his plan and leave you shocked. I view his actions as fairly extreme behavior because they seem so cold and business-like, and the way he left you without any information strikes me as a way of managing his own behavior equally as much as yours. I’d take it as a sign that he was troubled in some sort of way you now don’t have to deal with. He showed you who he is, and mercifully he did so without harming you further.
I found out after my ex-h became emotionally and physically abusive and left me suddenly (without even providing a forwarding address for months, when I needed it to finalize the divorce) that he had done the same thing to other women, and no-one had mentioned it in our mutual friend group. I think people who knew us had either hoped that things would go better with me, or assumed he’d grown out of it, or hadn’t really fully understood that he has a pattern where he presents an appearance of closeness until one day it shuts off. I found it quite damaging and spent a long time worrying what it meant about me, until I realized that it had nothing to do with me.
So, I hope that someday you will find peace thinking about your relationship and feel that it is good that your ex left you and didn’t cause further drama. In the meantime, I recommend lots of baths, not treating his behavior as a judgment on you, and giving yourself some time to wallow.
TTBD
I am sorry you are going through this. It absolutely sucks to have the vision of your life change so abruptly and outside of your control. Your job now is to figure out how to establish your new normal – it will take time.
However, I’m going to disagree with the idea that this happened out of the blue. I don’t doubt that it feels like a very abrupt action. And yes, you were making plans that were taking you into the future, but you also say he was having issues with the relationship and how you treated him, and he had expressed frustration with the escalation. I would imagine it felt like the next, necessary step from his perspective if he felt like he was not being heard in the relationship. His no contact solution seems very abrupt, but his actions have told you what he needs from you and that is no contact. Stop trying to contact him.
Talking to him is not going to bring you closure – it will prolong the recovery period. If you need someone to talk to about, I highly recommend considering seeking out a therapist. Someone who can help you unpack what contributed to the breakup – not to fix it, but to help you figure out how to move forward. Maybe upon further analysis you’ll figure out it was a “him” issue, and the break-up was beyond your control. Regardless of the outcome it will be a space to talk about and say the things you wish you could say to him.
I do wish you the best – I’ve been there (the break-up seeming out of the blue, but with warning signs given hindsight) to a lesser extent (no wedding in the works). It will suck for a while, and then it’ll suck less, and then it will be better. Take care of yourself and good luck.
ArenKay
Co-sign all of this. It does suck, and you’re totally right to feel blindsided and deeply wounded, but the response from the law firm after your letter suggests to me that he felt like this was his only option. I think talking with a therapist would be really valuable for you.
Ugh
Probably too late but I got dumped for NOT mommying enough and being too fun. Not like I was too drunk or anything. Just that I liked to do a lot of fun activities and then he would get too drunk at them. So he wants a better balance. Tradesies?
CHJ
What casual shoes/boots are you all wearing this fall? My go-to boot for the last several years has been the Frye Melissa boot with skinny jeans, but I feel like that look is starting to be a bit dated. I’m looking for something comfortable enough that I could walk several miles in it, but still look put together enough for museums and restaurants. Any ideas?
Anonymous
Toms wedges.
Runner
I’ve managed to lose my riding style boots somewhere (Clarks Orinoco Jazz from a few years ago) so if I can’t find them before it gets cold then I’ll have to replace them with something similar.
I bought a pair of plain black flat Chelsea boots last winter which I love and which I’ll wear all through this winter.
GirlFriday
I don’t think Frye Melissas are too dated, but I also live in the South so what do we know, lol. I am honestly obsessed with my Kork Ease wedge booties that I purchased from Nordstrom two years ago. I can wear these all day puttering around places like New Orleans or Austin and at the end of the day my feet aren’t tired at all. Check them out!
NOLA
I bought two pairs of the Franco Sarto Linden boots (booties?) last year and Nordstrom still has them. The heels are covered rubber and they are so comfortable. And I think they look great, too.
M.S.
Rag + Bone Sullivan boot, forever and ever.
To Senior Attorney
You’re probably not reading this thread because you are getting ready for your WEDDING this weekend, but best wishes for a fabulous day and start of a new adventure!!!!
Clementine
Yes!!! Only the best for you, sweet internet friend!
Sydney Bristow
Yes! I hope everything is as amazing as you want it to be! Enjoy it!
Frozen Peach
CONGRATULATIONS!! We are so happy for you, and so grateful for your wisdom to this hive.
Wildkitten
Should we have sent flowers?
anon anon Armani
Yes ,,, or something to the hotel, but we are “just” internet friends. Maybe we can all do something once she is home as a married lady? Maybe Mrs. Senior Attorney would coordinate or share info with Kat so we could do that?
NOLA
Saw pictures of SA and LF having pedis with champagne this afternoon. They’re ready!
Never too many shoes...
Absolute happiness to both of you – you *so* deserve it!
OCAssociate
Yes! Congratulations to you and lovely fiance. Have a wonderful wedding!
Carrots
Absolutely agree! Wishing you and lovely finance all the joy and happiness!
APC
Congrats Senior Attorney!!
Anne Shirley
So excited for you!
Wendy
Wishing you both endless happiness!
Hildegarde
Yes, the very best wishes to you and Lovely Fiance, Senior Attorney!
Lilly
Wishing you joy and contentment and a lifetime of assuming good intentions!
Senior Attorney
Ha! This made me squeal and clap my hands!!
ArenKay
Best wishes from me as well!
NOLA
I just saw some pics on Fb. She looked gorgeous and SO HAPPY!!
Senior Attorney
Oh my gosh, you all! This is such a lovely surprise! I appreciate it so much! You all helped me get through the bad times and thank you so much for helping me celebrate the good times.
The wedding was just plain amazing. We had more bells and whistles than should be legal, but really the best part was the ceremony. And now we are MARRIED!!! WOO HOO!!!
SO SO SO HAPPY!!!!
Hollis
Congratulations Senior Attorney! We all wish you and your gentleman *husband* a lifetime of happiness together – you deserve it!
Wendy
I am so glad that you and I guess it’s Lovely Husband now had an awesome wedding. You deserve it! :)
Senior Attorney
I’ve been pondering what his new name wil be, Wendy, and you just confirmed what I had been leaning toward. Lovely Husband it is. Because that’s exactly what he is. <3
Anonymous Poser
Congratulations! :-)
Another anonymous judge
Congratulations, Senior Attorney – role model to us all!
NYNY
Congratulations! So so happy for you!
MU JD
Congratulations and best wishes for a happy future!
Anonymous
I have a professional exam that I need to take tomorrow, so I took today off to study and to get a haircut. Dropped the kid off at daycare and was trying to decide what coffee shop to go camp out at.
And of course, work exploded. And my, ‘Oh, let me just go in and cover that one call’ has turned into the day of Too Much Work. I mean, I did get some studying done in the Stylist’s chair, but I really wish that Plan A had worked out.
Now I’ve got to go pick the kiddo up from daycare in a few and I should be cramming in any last minute studying, but instead I’m definitely drinking a wine spritzer (heavy on the spritz) and reading Tumblr and this site. I don’t know if I’m doing it right or doing it wrong…
GirlFriday
Hugs! You’ll do great! Try not to stress. Sending good vibes your way.
anon
You’re doing the right thing. If you don’t know it now, you’re not going to learn it, and being relaxed will help you more than reviewing one thing you won’t remember because you’re stressed.
Source: I split a bottle of wine (no spritzer) with a friend the night before the first day of the bar exam. Passed with flying colors. You’ll be great!
RBF
I am a law student with Resting B-tch Face — at least during interviews. I recently did a mock interview with Career Services and was told that I come off as “reserved.” I’ve done some pretty interesting things in my life, but the advisor said she never would have guessed that based on my demeanor. I’m at the stage where personality and fit are what matter the most, so this is really hurting me. I don’t think I’m that reserved in real life, but I guess I just clam up during interviews.
Any suggestions for how to address this? I’m struggling with how to balance coming across as both professional and the type of person you want to pull an all-nighter with.
Anonymous
Can you ask career services for some more detailed feedback? I suspected this isn’t really about your facial expression. “Reserved” is generally used to describe people who come across as being shy, which is often more about what you say and how you say it. Think through some interesting stories about yourself that you can share when asked questions about your hobbies and stuff like that. Practice with a friend or in front of a mirror as necessary.
Try not to stress about this too much. Career services are trying to err on the side of too much criticism so you’ll be super prepared. And law firm interviewers are really much more concerned with your ability to talk intelligently about the law and demonstrate a genuine enthusiasm for working with them than they are about your ability to deliver a stand-up comedy routine.
Anon
I discussed the law little or not at all in law firm interviews (where I received offers) – I do agree that intelligent and engaging conversation is key, but usually it will not center on substantive legal issues. Unfortunately, much of the interviewing decision is about fit and personality. That doesn’t mean you need to be super outgoing though,yiu just need to have SOME distinct personality that someone could describe if they were talking about you. If you are a shy but clearly kind, thoughtful, and bright person, that is great.
Anonymous
I didn’t mean that I discussed law in the sense of debating the latest Supreme Court opinion but I do think it’s important to be able to talk intelligently about why you want to be a lawyer, what areas of the law interest you, what you have enjoyed and not enjoyed about law school etc. That’s what I meant when I said “talk about the law.” But the point is you don’t have to be the funniest or most charming person. It’s ok to be reserved as long as you come across as friendly and intelligent. I totally agree with your last sentence that ‘if you are shy but clearly kind, thoughtful and bright,’ you will have no problems.
Anon
Interviewing is really hard. Good for you for actually doing mock interview so you can try to put your best foot forward. The best interviews are a conversation – try asking the other person a lot of questions and bounce off of their answers to weave in information about yourself. Sometimes things in a person’s office are a good starting point – you can ask where a photo was taken if there is a vacation photo, comment on an award from a nonprofit and ask about their involvement or what led to it, see a pennant from their university and ask how they enjoyed that school. Think about how you would talk to people that you are close to but are not your friends – like a beloved professor or the parent of someone you are dating. It gets a lot easier with practice so just keep trying and doing mock interviews and I hope it works out!
AIMS
This is not fair. That said, it’s in your best interest to deal with it, which is what you are doing. My SO has the male version of this problem. He has a scowl on his face naturally and he sometimes comes off as aloof. The words change but it’s still not good for interviews! He practiced a very very subtle smile (for him) that just made his face look ‘normal’ and ‘pleasant’
AIMS
Posted too soon… He also ‘dials up’ the charm/energy in certain situations to make his normal tendencies not come off as if he just doesn’t want to be somewhere. It sounds silly but it was something he had to figure out. We practiced (with a bottle of wine). Find a friend you trust and practice with them. You’ll be fine. Good luck!
Anon for this
Try to get a feel for your interviewer’s personalities. If they are smiley and jokey they are going to be looking for those characteristics in you. While telling people to smile is normally gendered, I’ve been on the hiring committee at my firm for a long time and I’ve seen lack of smile/sense of humor/enthusiasm hurt both male and female candidates. The cheery perky ones (but not too cheery and perky) seem to get the best feedback across the board. (We do interviews with multiple people and each one has to fill out a score card and the committee sees all the score cards.)
Don’t sit there smiling the whole time like the Cheshire cat. Rather, make sure you have a pleasant initial greeting with a big smile as you shake hands. They want to see that you look happy there. During conversation, try just smiling with your eyes. Your lips should turn up a little but stay closed. Imagine what face you would have if you were listening to some really awesome news from your best friend or mom. Pretend you just won a free dream vacation and you are just sitting there getting the details. Your face should look excited, happy, interested.
It is a really dumb standard and I try to push back on it when I can but I just don’t think it’s ready to die yet. My firm recently hired an admin and it came down to two (both female). They had equal credentials and the committee was on the fence. Finally, someone said “Candidate B really just seems unhappy with life, like everything is going to be a bother for her. She reminds me of April from Parks and Rec. April is hilarious on TV but not what I’m looking for in an admin. April will do the bare minimum, get annoyed when assigned work and try to get out of tasks. I’d rather have a Leslie, someone who just gets stuff done.”
I asked more questions to try to figure out what answers gave off that vibe. It really just came down to her lack of smile and lack of enthusiasm in the tone of her voice. If the question was can you stay late sometimes. She’d say, yeah, I can stay late when I have to. The Leslie candidate would smile and say “not a problem at all.” I guess they didn’t like the “when I have to” part either but really – who WANTS to stay late. They got an honest answer out of April. Leslie told them what they wanted to hear. (Leslie got the job and she’s been great.)
cc
This isn’t really a resting b face problem because your face should not really be resting during interviews. The two people I am thinking of who have what you would call resting b face are great interviewers. I think its great what you are doing- these mock interviews. Could you have a friend or bf/gf do one with you over Skype and record it? To me seeing yourself on video is always eye opening. I second the recommendation to think of it as a conversation- you aren’t giving a presentation but having a real back and forth. How do you do at networking events? Do you think it is just interviewing or maybe you tend to clam up until people get to know you? One thing I always repeat to myself before going in is “they already like me, and they want to like me” When you get to interview they’ve already seen something they like, and it is human nature to want to like people. that gets me in a positive head space.
Anonymous
Interviews are really hard especially with multiple interviews with law firms. You have to keep up your energy otherwise you will come off as uninterested (or uninteresting). I made it through tough times during OCI by channeling Julia Roberts and my charming law school friend (she always had something great to say about everyone so I used to think, how would she describe me or this law school class). You can do warm, sincere, and intelligent. Smile and greet your interviewers first rather than waiting for them to introduce themselves to you. Practice until it feels comfortable. You don’t need to be bubbly but the interviewer needs to believe you’re interested in the job.
(Former) Clueless Summer
Even if you are shy and do have a RBF, you can come across as less reserved and more personable by being positive about everything (I think a poster above said she channeled a friend who always had good things to say about everything). Last job you had as a waitress? It was great, super fun team of people, learned so much about dealing with people. Class in law school you kind of tanked? Professor was really intelligent/interesting/knowledgeable, you learned a ton about X, and if you could do it again, you’d do X, Y, X to get a better grade.
Slightly shy/reserved people don’t turn me off in OCIs, but people with negativity (we asked someone about a clerkship and he went on about his Dean hating him) are a definite no. That is not someone I want to work on a hard, cr@ppy file with.
Uber
Just took first Uber ride and didn’t tip per a friend’s advice, but it seemed awkward. Do you tip??
Wildkitten
No but you tip on Lyft.
Anon8
Yeah, I’ve tipped a couple or a few dollars because it feels weird no to.
Marissa Russell
By tip are you talking about handing them cash or tipping through the app? If you thought the service was good, then it’s a courtesy to tip (9 times out of 10 I tip), but always through the app. When you say that it “seemed awkward” it implies that the driver was waiting for you to hand him or her cash right in the car.
KT
I always tip with Uber
Anne Shirley
Never. That is the whole point. If you tip, you are doing it wrong, look silly, and ruin it for the rest of us.
Senior Attorney
“Thanks! Five stars!” as I get out of the car. Seems to end the transaction on a good note.
NYNY
I am a regular uber user and have never tipped. That’s the whole point of uber – no cash exchange.
NYNY
Um… That’s my username. Please get your own.
Anon brand check
Can anyone comment on the fit of suits from the brand tiger of sweden? I’m an apple shape and don’t know if this brand will work for me.
Tiger
I have a very defined waist and my suits from Tiger of Sweden fit well without having to be tailored. My Boss suit is cut significantly more generously in the waist.
Anonymous
Does anyone have suggestions of where to buy clothing for short men? My boyfriend is 4 1/2 feet tall. I gave him the contact info for the tailor I use, so he can have things hemmed ETC. If I were looking in the women’s section, I’d be looking for size 12 or 14 extra short petite, but I’ve never shopped for men before.