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Weekend Open Thread

5/24/24 Update: The Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale has started — see our big sale roundup! Also, sign up for our newsletter to stay on top of all the great sales!

The below content concerns the 2017 Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale.

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

There are two days left in the Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale! (Here are our earlier roundups on workwear and accessories for work.) I was perusing it last night and there are a ton of good shoes for work left — I'm going to try to do a round-up below. But these strappy, sophisticated sandals seem perfect for all kinds of outings, from weddings to dates to dancing. (They also come in a sapphire blue I'm swooning over!) They were $149, but are now marked to $104; lots of sizes still left. Ruby Asymmetrical Strappy Sandal

Update: OK, check out my favorite 20 shoes for work after the jump! I excluded anything that only had lucky sizes left because like I said, there are TONS of things left — but of course if you're doing a search for yourself filter by your size first.


This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Shoes, pictured:

Shoes For Work Under $89:

Pictured above: black strappy pump / cutout ballet flat / blue flat (4 colors on sale) / red perforated flat (14 colors) / black pump

Pictured above: bootie / yellow buckle (8 colors) / beige perforated pump (11 colors on sale) / black dot / tan flat (5 colors)

Shoes on Sale to Wear to Work, $99-$161

Pictured above: strappy pump / stacked heel pump / leopard pump / bow ballet flat (5 colors!) / black pump

Investment Shoes for Work ($176-$449)

Pictured above: beige pump / blue pump / pink flat (5 colors) / striped pump / buckle pump

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

376 Comments

  1. My husband’s on his one day of funemployment between jobs and all I want to do is skip out of work early and meet him for drinks. He’s been Snapchatting me all day of his bike ride in the park, his trip to the coffeeshop, his nap with our cat curled up on his chest, etc. Not fair! Back to doc review, I guess….

    2. Do it! At least go to do the doc review from home while you snuggle with him and the cat.

    3. Get out of there! Aren’t you leaving for law school soon? Nobody is going to begrudge you one afternoon.

  2. What are people’s thoughts on the situation at Evergreen State College? Honestly, I’m baffled that the president has completely kowtowed to the protesters when he and his staff were effectively taken hostage (one of the videos shows them saying things like “they must stay in that room until they hear our demands. No one can leave that room.”) It makes me afraid that college students today don’t seem to have any resiliency skills or any ability to hear things that are upsetting without a completely out of proportion reaction (Middlebury might be the most egregious example since a professor actually got sent to the hospital with a concussion and a neck injury by student protesters). Sure, I can see why people would be upset that Weinstein politely declined to participate in the revised Day of Absence. It can be annoying and frustrating that someone else doesn’t agree with something that feels important to you. But…calling for him to get fired? Making it unsafe (physically, not intellectually) for him to host class on campus? Intimidating and screaming at the president of the university to “shut the f— up?” All for one professor declining to participate in a day you are now claiming is “totally optional” after people have criticized you for hosting a segregated event? Weinstein is a progressive professor at one of the most unique, progressive colleges in the country. Why not protest against Trump or any of the people who spew racist words or enact racist policies? What am I missing here?

    1. It makes me not want to give to my alma mater when the undergrads act like knuckleheads. And to reconsider recruiting there.

      I try, try, try to see that there are hardworking kids too busy to do anything but study and work and that I need to give these kids a chance and a break. But I don’t see them on the news. I see the idiots that make me feel that my degree is not worth the loans I’m still repaying for it.

    2. Haven’t read the news about the latest protest-I’ll look it up when I get home, thanks to your comment.
      But I do know a but about Evergreen and I would not call it liberal so much as leftist and very permissive. So yeah, I’m not surprised vocal protestors would get what they wanted.

      1. Agreed on leftist vs. liberal characterization.

        I am eight years out of college, but sometimes do wonder if there is a large subset of college students who “don’t seem to have any resiliency skills or any ability to hear things that are upsetting without a completely out of proportion reaction”. There are definitely folks of my older-millennial vintage that that applies to, as well.

  3. I’m as 32C (really a 30D, but that’s only a real size for non-sports bras), so I can go with a compression-type sports bra. Now, a lot of them come with foam cup liners. Which is great — I’m a little less flat and no outward comfirmation if I’m cold or not. But how do you launder? Dis-assemble. Then wash the foam parts (they are damp with sweat) and air dry and re-assemble? I fear that the foamies will get lost / misshapen and what starts out good will have a short useful life.

    Also, since I don’t need that much support, I’ve gone with the $10 Target ones for decades. Is there anything better if you’re tiny?

    1. Those little pads drive me nuts. I specifically seek out sports bras that have molded cups so that nothing moves around in the wash, yet I still don’t have headlights. Whenever I find one, I buy a bunch.

      1. Stupid pads. I spent half my morning fiddling with them trying to unfold them this morning…

        1. I just take them out and toss them (same for swimsuits). Not an answer for the OP’s question….

    3. I leave them in when I wash them and then usually have to do some wrangling when they’re dry because the foam parts get folded over and moved around in the process.

      1. I leave them in and do the wrangling when they come out of the wash before hanging them to air dry.

        1. Same. All lingerie goes in the mesh bags (whether sport or non-sport). Then I pull out the foam pads and air dry them right on top of the sports br@s laying flat, so none of them get lost. It’s a pain but it’s the best solution I have and I prefer them to keep them to full ‘conceal’ when I am working out.

    4. Wow, I guess this all a matter of perspective but I wouldn’t consider a C or D cup “tiny” or “flat.” I’m on the border between C/D and I feel like I’m bouncing all over the place when I workout and it HURTS.

      1. It’s the volume of a lime on each side.

        It’s hard to buy smaller bands b/c those are built for very skinny teens.

      2. If I understand bra sizing (and there’s no guarantee here that I do) the cup size on a 32C is the same as a 34B. I would still not define that as flat chested, but cup size doesn’t tell you that much about actual breast volume without the band size.

      3. If I understand bra sizing (and there’s no guarantee here that I do) the cup size on a 32C is the same as a 34B. I would still not define that as flat chested, but cup size doesn’t tell you that much about actual breast volume without the band size.

        2. I should read the reddit on bra size.

          But I also find that I am widely-spaced, so a lot of time the UW cuts into me if the cup size isn’t larger. I once thought the answer was 34A / 36A and the thing was floating all over but the wires were digging in on the sides.

          If only they could make a sports coobie (I have the yoga one — it’s not quite right on me and I can’t figure out why. Too bulletproof? Too something).

          Le sigh.

    5. I leave them in and wash on delicate cycle in a lingerie bag – that way all the little foam cups remain in the bag. Then take everything out, air-dry, and reassemble.
      If you don’t want to bother with the fiddly foam bits: For high-impact sports bras with molded or attached cups, I’m partial to Moving Comfort Alexis and good old Nike Pro compression bras.

      1. My ex used my sports bra as his sexual peni$ holster (until I caught him). Make sure this is not the reason yours is losing elasticity or worse. And it was not like I held back, either. Go figure.

        1. That is not bad. My ex took my soiled panties out of the hamper and wore them on his head. After I found him walking around naked with them I started to lock them in my suitcase.

    6. I solve that problem by never buying sports bras with removable liners. Moving Comfort Vixen is my go-to for races (I HATE turning up on Facebook in a sweaty race picture “appearing cold” so to speak). If I’m out in the woods, the $10 Target sports bras are the best things ever. They last forever, too.

    7. For washing the ones with the little foam liners that move around when the bra is washed, consider getting a bottle of Soak and just soak your bras in that. You can also soak them in vinegar beforehand is smell is a concern.

      I really like the padded/push-up bras from Victoria’s Secret. Very machine washable, the padding is totally built in and doesn’t shift.

    8. I’m also a 30D and really, really recommend you look at Moving Comfort sports br@s! I have, I think, the Fiona — got in on Amazon, and it fits great and without the pads that annoy you.

  4. I wash it all together. Sometimes they will fall out in the wash, but I stick them back in.

  5. My spouse has packed on some pounds in the past couple of years. It has created a fashion problem for him — he has work clothes by just sizing up everything or going the stretchy-waist route. He proposed to fix his lack of by losing weight. I get it: he wants not to look like he has a 9-month baby bump. In the mean time, what are good places for clothes for guys who are now firmly in the XL camp (so now a 38″ waist or perhaps a bit larger)?

    We’ve tried Duluth Trading Company for shorts (which he likes, but the diamond-shaped cr0tch thing they do is hard not to unsee once you see it), but he needs some nicer casual clothes for weekends / upcoming beach trip.

    1. Most stores that sell L sell XL, right? He could just buy the next size up in stuff he already likes.

      1. What I’m finding is that sometimes the jump from L to XL is about 50% more volume below the bump that looks like an odd caftan. Maybe he needs something more tailored? It is truly like he’s pregnant – large high front bump as opposed to large everwhere.

    2. Gap and Old Navy pants go to 42″ waists for men. Perhaps start there?

    3. If it really looks like a baby bump, that doesn’t sound like typical weight gain. Has he had it checked out?

      1. Of course not.

        First, he is a man. Men do not go to doctors.

        Second, he is a hypochondriac. So he will go to the ER when he has a heart attack, but likely not before that. In the meantime, he is all “maybe it’s cancer” while trying to cancel dinner plans at a nice restaurant b/c he has nothing to wear, feels ashamed, and maybe shouldn’t eat a large meal anyway.

        I know, I know. If I were his mother, I’d perp walk him over to a doctor.

      2. Not to freak you out because this is a RARE case with a happy ending but you can use it to push your H to the doc. My ex’s dad had a baby bump and it turned out he had a TWENTY FIVE pound tumor the size of a basketball. It was all nicely encased and none of it spread anywhere scary. He made medical journals though. He obviously needed surgery to remove it.

        On the flip side, lots of guys that drink too much beer get the baby bump look.

      3. Eh, men tend to get potbellies. Women tend to carry weight in their butt and hips, men carry it in their bellies. That’s well-established science (and is related to why women live longer, since fat in the belly is the worst place for fat to be).

    4. maybe part of the problem is where’s he’s belting? could he try belting under the bump (or, if he’s doing that, over it?)

    6. Banana Republic has 38’s nice khakis and some other colors too in three different cuts, as well as big and tall type cuts starting at 38. DH is very tall and generally thin with a bit of a bump and when he went to a 38 I ordered one of each cut, plus also in their big and tall version of 38, made him try them on, returned the rejects and ordered more of the style that worked best. FWIW, the big and tall has a lot of fabric in them.

  6. I bought some of their sunscreen and I like it so far (esp. the scent).

    Is it wrong that I refused to for so long b/c I thought it was associated with Gwyneth Paltrow’s goop nonsense?

    3. Thank goodness! I love their setting spray, but was worried I was buying GP a new vage steamer.

  8. I have one child who is older (7) and has never been dry at night.

    We’ve gone to the ped and a urologist and there is nothing wrong. A half-sibling was not dry at night until age 10 (and that was like a switch flipping — it was 100% done; before, if you didn’t get him/her up when you went to bed and then never let them sleep in, the bedding would be soaking).

    Can I have any annecdata you have that this will some day be OK?

    It is very shameful for the child who is turning down sleepovers and going to scout camp with friends. I know you can try to hide it, but even at this young being found out is too mortifying for them to want to risk.

    AND we’re at the largest stage of pullups, so I hope this ends before we grow out of those (I think adult diapers will be too large for a while).

    1. Yes, it will be okay. I went through it for years with my child. It’s so hard when you’re in the midst of it but I promise it will be over some day.

      I’m sure you’ve tried this, but we had some success with a bedwetting alarm.

      Big hugs to you and your little one!

    2. I am close to your situation – my son is almost 6 and very big for his age. Even with pull ups I am washing sheets a couple timea week. Have you read “It’s Not an Accident”? Theory is the cause is constipation. I have tried some but not all of the recommendations in that book and have been thinking of taking him to get an x-ray to detect a blockage.

      1. I read a lot of that (and Jamie Glowacky’s book, which I wish I’d had when this child was two and maybe we could have influenced the outcome a bit; buying it for a then-four year old was a day late and a dollar short).

        And child eats a lot of fruit. Apples, pears, sweet potatoes. I wish it had had an easier solution.

        1. Well, at least you’ve got a good eater! My bed wetter is a carb-a-tarian. Two problems for me to solve. I did just order an alarm from Amazon based on this discussion. We’ll see.

    3. One of my brothers wet the bed until he was 10-ish. Suuuuuuper heavy sleeper and the ped said this was the probable cause. My parents just used a rubber fitted sheet under the regular one and figured he’d outgrow it eventually – which he did. They never made a big deal out of it and neither did i/other sibling.

      1. The half-sibling was like this — heavy sleeper + body somehow didn’t step back urine production when asleep (that some developmental step that eventually comes, sometimes much slower for some children).

        This child is a heavy sleeper (so is the one who trained herself and was done when she turned 3). I’ve tried the alarm (good idea, but it all comes out in a giant flood, so it tells you when it’s too late, sadly), just wrapping the bed in piddle pads to see if child would wake up natually, going in to wake child every 3 hours or so (awful for me). You name it.

        I’m not a passive person by nature and am more of a tinkerer. But I think I just throw in the towel that nature moves at nature’s speed and it’s not something that we’ve figured out how to beat.

      2. I was like this. I can’t remember when my parents finally took the plastic liner off my mattress, but basically no real problems except I wouldn’t wake up when I had to pee, so I wet the bed for a long time. I do remember also having constipation issues too but hadn’t heard of that being related. Anyway, both issues resolved themselves without intervention and I have no bathroom related issues as an adult. I’m still a heavy sleeper though.

    4. I was your kid. I wasn’t consistently dry at night until around 7 or 8, maybe, and then, like you said: switch flipped and it was never an issue.

      I don’t remember much about the process. I know my parents never made a huge deal of it, or made me feel bad about it. I went to a urologist, and IIRC, they thought it was a combination of smallish bladder and super deep sleeper (it took me a long time to fall asleep — still does — but I can sleep through anything once I’m out).

      I’m now a successful professional with a happy life. I remember being embarrassed about not being able to go on overnight trips/sleepovers, etc., but it doesn’t make a difference in my life now. In fact, I hadn’t thought about it at all in years until this question.

      Keep being supportive, and things will work out in time.

    5. There are also “GoodNights”, which are larger than Pull-Ups but not Adult (I think they go up to 125 pounds) and are styled a bit more discreetly than pullups.

    6. Is it every night or just occasionally? I did occasionally and still managed sleepovers.

      1. Every.Single.Night.

        The only night child was dry was when I got up and took child to the bathroom so that child went to bed @ 8, and then got woken up at 11, 2, 5, and 8.

        But if I tried to stretch it out to 4 hours, the bed was soaking at some point. So after about 2 weeks, I quit that b/c I work FT and was running on fumes.

        So: never dry overnight.

    7. This is from the older sibling. My brother wet the bed for a long time, until maybe 10? My mom (the laundry doing parent) was very bitter about it. Especially since I was fully potty trained at 2.5 and skipped a few elementary school grades. She had a second child under the assumption it would be like the first and it certainly was not. She still resents him for it

      1. I’m sorry for your brother. And your mother. I imagine that caregivers for the disabled have a much rougher time b/c that may be 24/7 and I’m not having to lift someone or worry about that when we’re out and about.

        I was hoping that we’d just fix this by letting child sleep naked (said to help) in the summer. And too many loads of wash and morning showers before the school bus came and I was making peace with the pullup.

        Child will tell me flat-out that “I can’t hold my pee” and it’s true — I am 100% convinced that it’s involuntary and whatever the tipping point is for fixing it, we’re not even close.

        1. Good Nights also makes these disposable “Bed Mats.” They come in a green package. They’re like a giant absorbable post-it you put over the sheet so in the morning if you put it in the right place all you have to do is peel it off and the sheet is protected. We prefer this over the pull ups so we can keep our child in underwear.

          1. We’ve tried something similar.

            It was OK but child seems to be wriggly and there was always the issue of drapage — a sheet under a trunk that got soaked anyway and wicked fluid onto the comforter, being twirled around in bedding. It all seemed to get wet. Only if it were super-hot and kid was naked might it have a chance to just have the pad be what was wet.

    8. No shame – I wet the bed on the regular until I was in 4th grade.
      I also wet the bed once at college when I was not drunk but was on – gotta-get-my-64-ounces-of-water kick.

      For my son, we took him to the toilet before we went to bed – so he went to bed at 8 or 9, we went to bed at 10 or 11 or 12 and sleepwalked him to the toilet then. A few nights we’d forget, and he’d stay dry! Who knows what happens.

      No shame. It’ll be ok.

    9. My niece was like this and her parents (who are otherwise into natural, nurturing parenting) used an alarm system recommended by their pediatrician. It worked in about 3 nights so I would not entirely discount this if done with the approval of a knowledgeable medical professional.

    10. Do the alarm thing. Your pediatrician should know about this. It cured my son in a week. It’s a week of getting up at night for you, but so worth it.

    11. One of my sons had this problem, and when he was 6 or 7 (a long time ago) we used a wetting alarm. It worked, but I wish we hadn’t done it, or at least that we had waited another year or two; when the alarm would go off he’d wake up, but it scared him terribly. I think it permanently affected his sleep patterns. Maybe they make gentler alarms these days.

    12. Did you see an adult Urologist or pediatric Urologist? This is very common. Essentially, his brain is not making the hormone that causes his kidneys to concentrate the urine overnight and decrease urine volume. He also can be a dysfunctional eliminator hence the constipation question. Eventually his brain will mature and secrete the hormone and poof, he will be dry. But were you not offered ddavp? It is a similar hormone in pill and spray form available for kids. Some people use it just for sleepovers and whatnot. I wonder why none of your docs mentioned it, or maybe they did but you just didnt include it in your post.

  9. Heading there this weekend for work. Staying downtown. Will have meals and a few hours Sun/Mon to myself.

    Any recommendations for eating? i like anything from tacos and beer to fancy. Also like restaurants of any kind with a nice bar or outside area where I’d feel comfortable dining solo. And I also love dessert :)

    Exploring ideas? I can shop, but have been looking up sightseeing as well. I might just take some yoga instead – trying to also enjoy some kid free time to get some activity/mental break stuff in.

    I tried searching archives but got lots of random hits for suits of the week by a brand of a similar name. Thanks!

    3. I asked about Austin in the 5/19 morning thread and got a lot of really good ideas, if you want to look back. My favorite restaurant was Moonshine.

    4. Hopfields. Check out their Facebook and Instagram for an idea of what kind of food they serve.

  10. I posted in the weekend news update, but re-posting here, since it seems like an interesting discussion.

    How are you solving the balance of chores and/or emotional labor in your household? My husband is generally a smart, helpful guy, but sometimes he’s just clueless. When we first got married, we had a spreadsheet to make sure everything was equal. We got into a good groove, and stopped tracking. Now we’ve drifted back to me generally doing all the “small” tasks (laundry, dinner, mopping the floor, etc.) and him doing a few “big” tasks (taxes 1x per year, car registration 1x per year, etc.). I handle all of the emotional labor (Mother/Father Day cards, gifts for graduation, coordinating milestone event trips between the families, wedding invite RSVP/gifts/schedule, etc.).

    Suggestions thus far: having shared to-do lists, agreeing on standards for each area of the house, asking partner to do things and accepting that they will do it if asked but won’t do it automatically, and outsourcing.

    It feels a little childish to go back to a chore-tracking spreadsheet vs. just being responsible adults, but maybe we should do that for a while to get back into a more equal routine.

    1. I’ve just realized that my DH is clueless. There are certain things that are his jobs and when they’re not done, I remind him. We are also both busy so have outsourced house cleaning and lawn cutting.

    2. We have periodic, serious talks about this, initiated by yours truly. (I guess that is part of emotional labor, to save myself from more emotional labor, funny, huh?) We’ve been together for about 10 years, with kids for 4 of them, and we’re still working on it… The more we talk, the better it gets, even though he usually gets defensive. Most of the “small” tasks you mention end up getting done by the person who has the most free time. This is usually communicated at the moment or just obvious — I think trying to split it up ex ante with a spreadsheet would have worked less well for us, but this is my personal experience. I also find that when I just stop doing things (hard for me to drop stuff if I don’t think it’s going to be done, but a couple insane months at work forced me to), it turns out he’s not as clueless as I thought, and what needs to get done magically does.

    3. Maybe track the amount of time that each person spends on their chores. My husband handles the yard and anything that happens to it. Once he explained what all he does, I had a greater appreciation for what all that encompassed – it’s not just cutting grass. it’s doing the seasonal planting, fixing the sprinkler, arranging for the spray guy, etc. When added up, it’s more than the 90 minutes he spends cutting the grass. Likewise, he realizes that my cooking dinners involves time for meal planning and shopping, not just tossing something in the oven. We are both solely responsible for doing our own laundry and gifting our own parents and I think that helps with the emotional labor piece.

    4. Question from the single side – did ladies marry men who had lived alone for a while before they got married? I’m curious whether its a situation where men never really fully learned how to take care of everything in the house on their own or whether their wives just took everything over/they expected their wives to do all the heavy lifting and took a step back?

      (I’m not trying to judge, just really trying to understand the situation). I know the older I get, especially if I date men who have been living on their own for 10+ years, they seem to be more together than the guys I dated a few years ago, but I don’t know if that situation would change once we’re married.

      1. My husband had lived alone but in a rented apartment with no children. Owning a home and raising kids requires a whole lot more adulting than bachelorhood in a rental.

        1. Totally. When you live alone in a rental, all you have to do is clean it. Maintaining a house is a LOT more work.

          1. This is probably a stupid question, but…like what? We have lived in our single family home for two years and we don’t do anything except clean it and mow the lawn. Are there things we are supposed to be doing that we’re not?

          2. Clean the gutters, trim trees, wash windows, change air filters, semi-annual HVAC maintenance checks, etc. And that’s just what I’ve done in the last month.

          3. Basically what anon a mouse listed, plus regular maintenance when things break. In the last year we’ve replaced a broken GFCI outlet and fixed a broken toilet. Neither was expensive but both required multiple consultations with youtube videos and and several hours of work. I also went around and touched up the paint in a few spots a couple weeks ago.

          4. Depends on the house. This year, I’ve replaced a collapsed closet organizer, the garage door opener, painted and dealt with several miscreant electrical outlets, in addition to planting, weeding, trimming, brush clearing and mowing.

            Also, division, or rather NON-division of labor issues are probably going to come to a head in my house soon.

      2. In my case….his family raised him to be clueless and then he went to a uni that did everything for him and then worked in the Bay at a tech company that also does everything for him. He has never had any reason to learn. I 100% went into the relationship realizing this and thank goodness he has many other wonderful qualities and also a willingness to learn. But his parents, school and work have made him helpless when it comes to everything home.

      3. My H was on his own a lot as a grown up. I suspect he never changed sheets other than getting a new GF or something being truly foul.

        It also meant he owned a lazyboy and about 5 TVs.

        1. This is my husband to a T. His standards of cleanliness and neatness are well below mine, though he’s really good at tackling larger, less recurring tasks (assembling furniture, hanging art, etc.) whereas I would let those things languish for weeks.

          He also just didn’t do a lot of things – either he didn’t know (which is possible – his family of origin has some issues) or he just didn’t place too much emphasis on it. For example, the wife of one of his good work friends had a baby last year. I picked a small gift for us to send to the baby. His response? “Oh, that’s nice. Is that a thing we should be doing?”

      4. My DH lived with roommates in college, so he knows how to do everything and is perfectly capable of doing stuff. He does notice things, and he’ll take care of them eventually, it just takes him much longer (ie: having no clean boxers, but not realizing that he should put the laundry in immediately, so he wears bike shorts for 3 days until I do the laundry or he decides to FINALLY do it himself). He’ll complain about the dishes for 3 days, and I usually respond by telling him that the best way to solve that complaint is for him to do the dishes (he normally does the dishes, sometimes without complaints before they pile up). I basically don’t do the dishes ever… since I’m busy doing the laundry and the dinner and the floors :)

        He was raised in a household with traditional gender norms, where it’s highly praised if his dad “helps” by running to the store (though, when we visited during the holidays, his mom insisted that me or SIL go to the store with the boys because they weren’t very good at shopping), or joking-but-not-really she’s “falling down on the job” if he “helps” by hanging up his own shirts. So I think my DH is fighting some of his upbringing, and some of it is that he just doesn’t always think of how something comes across.

      5. My husband had not lived alone, but neither had I. We moved in together straight out of college. We both grew up in households that expected relatively little from us in terms of chores, etc. (Both of us were busy, high-achieving high school students from well-off families that were also very busy, had cleaning ladies, did little cooking, and had little family time at home together.) In college we lived on campus at a school that basically did everything for us. We learned how to be adults together. But, despite similar backgrounds and starting out together, there is still a huge difference in who notices when a task needs to be done. Husband is more than willing to do stuff, and he usually does more than half of stuff around the house and childcare, but he rarely identifies jobs.

      6. Not married but I’ve been sharing a 2 br apartment with male roommates (one dude for 2 years, who moved out to live with his SO, now another) and . . . neither one seemed to know how to be an adult, and didn’t seem to learn much while we lived together. I was in charge of the apartment search, I’m the one the landlord calls about renewing the lease each year, I make sure the rent gets paid, I’m the one who calls building management about repairs or just handles them myself . . . oh and I do 80% of the cleaning, at least.

        It’s a tough line to walk. On the one hand, I just want stuff to get done, and I know if he says he’ll do something he’s gonna keep forgetting for days until it gets done, so I go ahead and do it. On the other hand, I don’t want my roommate (current or future) to get used to having a woman around playing the “mommy” role, running the house for him, while he sits on his bum playing video games, and if my next roommate is also a dude, I need to find a new way to balance these two things. Otherwise, they’ll either move in with a girlfriend and subconsciously expect her to take care of all that stuff, and may be in for a rude awakening when he’s expected to *gasp* be a real adult, or he’ll move in with one or more male roommates and maybe none of them will know what to do.

        But, trying to help someone learn to be an adult so they’ll be able to function after they move out . . . is also something a mom does, isn’t it?

        I expected more of my first roommate though, he’d lived in apartments with roommates before. The second one came straight from home, I kind of understood that living in a “real” (not on campus) apartment might be an adjustment for him, but he’s been having a really hard time with it.

      7. Yes, as I posted on the previous thread my husband was by himself for 12 years in his house before I moved in. He is generally a conscientious person so he had each and every one of his systems in place and was just happy to have somebody to share the load when I showed up.

        I think there is really something to this — a lot of guys go from Mom’s house to Wifey’s house without ever really learning what goes into keeping a household running.

        1. Oh, and you better believe I raised my son to be an equal household partner in all respects. He is single and unattached at the moment but I have no doubt he will be an outstanding husband some day.

      8. Thank you for giving me a place to vent! This has been on my mind A LOT but I can’t really talk about it with anyone IRL.

        Together 17 years. I’m currently losing my mind over being the project leader in our home. He lived alone for 7 years and was always tidy but disgustingly dirty, sloppy vacuuming, disgusting sheets and clothes, cooked icky foods. But was very OCD over breadcrumbs, books being neatly organized etc.

        After we moved in together after 5 years together (it was cheaper renting subsidized university studios than find a place together on the open housing market), we never discussed who does what. He took over grocery shopping, cooking (yes, I made lists and gave him recipes to follow) and taking out the trash. My husband still brags to his friends that I would die of hunger in week if he left LOL. That said, I only ate home on week ends, he was cooking for himself but somehow never realized it. Can you hear I’ve been carrying this annoyance around for years?

        No gardens or cars or typical male tasks to worry about. I did the laundry, mopping, scrubbing, hunting for used furniture we could afford and revamping it. Knowing where every single item is, I don’t know why I need to be the one to decide where we keep stuff? And ALL the planning and scheduling.

        2.5 years ago we finally had a little one. I started barking out orders and he executed them. I hate this dynamic. I tried to step back, I really tried. But when I did/do, the kid is in a wet diaper forever, he doesn’t offer the kid food when he himself is having lunch/dinner, because the kid often is suspicious about food, So she asks for a cookie… When I come home from work the kid may have eaten part of a banana and a cookie all day!

        I mostly let him and the kid be to develop their own thing. But it still bugs me that I’m the planner, list maker and task delegator, when there is anything that absolutely must get done. On one hand he says he’s to tired to think and wants me to just tell him what to do and on the other he resents me for “picking on him”.

    6. Don’t do stuff for him that doesn’t affect you. Forget to buy a mother’s day card? Guess he’s just going to have to look like a $h!tty son. Didn’t do his laundry? He’ll have to wear dirty clothes to work. Won’t help with dinner? Don’t make anything for him and let him make do. Maybe I’m being harsh, but you don’t actually have to do the labor for him. He’ll figure it out when there’s not someone anticipating his needs. He’s a fully grown man – he’s not helpless, he’s choosing to be selfish and thoughtless because it’s nice having someone cater to you. That kind of childish behavior is a dealbreaker for me.

      1. I should caveat my comments with the fact that he is generally a pretty helpful person, he just sometimes gets into his own head. You are right about the emotional labor for things like Mother’s Day, which I’ve basically given up on. He doesn’t really do much to acknowledge his parent/sibling birthdays, so I don’t push on that one. He’ll do my family things with a cheerful attitude, and he’ll drive or navigate or cook at those things. As for dinner, I generally cook a few meals in bulk for the week, so I’m not going to tell him it’s “my” food and he can’t have any. He’ll generally clean up the leftovers if I ask him to, and sometimes he’ll put them away on his own.

        He’s learning, but it’s just a little shocking to me that it’s still an issue. It’s actually kind of helpful to hear from other women that they have great husbands but that they STILL have some fights about this, years into their marriage. It’s not worth divorcing over, and honestly, sometimes it’s not even worth fighting over. But when comics like that pop up and people are sharing tips or commiserating, it comes to the forefront.

        1. I mean, people don’t really change that much. Have you told him how much it offends you? Maybe ask what he would think of a coworker who never took initiative and expected him to do all the work. Let him draw the parallels.

          1. From the complete other side- people can change behaviors- maybe less so, their innate willingness to change may be less malleable. DH is a total neat freak- he is very tidy with his things and I am not- I like it clean, but clutter and piles of magazines etc were my way of life. He told me how much clutter just messes with his head, so I have changed that. For me explaining the why was important- initially I just thought he was being an @ss, until he told me it really disturbs him to have clutter and disorganization.

      2. I agree with doing that in principle, but it doesn’t just affect him – it affects me too. If he shows up to a party we’re both going to in dirty, unwashed clothes, that embarrasses me. If he doesn’t sweep the floor when he’s supposed to, I have to walk through crumbs and cat hair. If I let him forgot a Mother’s Day gift, that’s more on him, but I hate to think of his mother feeling hurt because he’s too disorganized to remember the date.

        1. On the other side, if he forgets the gift, his mom feels hurt, and he doesn’t care enough to correct his behavior, what does that really say about him?

          1. But it’s not that simple. He loves his mother and shows he cares in so many other ways. It’s like a weakness that he can’t overcome to remember (in advance) to buy and send a gift. Mother’s Day matters to her and he doesn’t want to disappoint her, but he’s just incredibly disorganized and has been, for whatever reason, unable to change. If he were a jerk to her the rest of the time, I would chalk it up as his personality, but he’s not. It’s not black and white.

          2. Eh, in this case, it says that he absorbed the dumb gender roles that were modeled to him. His mom started handling basically all of that stuff when she married his dad at age 19. So she doesn’t really get offended if he doesn’t do more than send a text, but at the same time, she kind of thinks it’s my job to handle these things. We’ve been together for almost 13 years, married for 9, and I think she’s finally accepted that I’m not a “traditional” wife. She knew it when she met me, knew it when DH proposed, knew it when we starting building our life together our way, but I think it’s only REALLY started to sink in over the last couple of years. She’s actually quite nice as far as MILs go, but sometimes the old-school gender roles really show up.

        2. She raised him to be that way. If she feels hurt she feels hurt. Too bad, so sad.

          1. BTW I am not yet a mother in law, but I would hate it if I only got Mother’s Day remembrances because my daughter in law was covering for my flaky son.

          2. You know my mother in law, don’t you! That’s her!

            This is my situation exactly. My DH is truly dear and incredibly equal, but my MIL didn’t raise him to be like that (and still manages to get huffy and peeved; boggles the mind!).

        3. If I leave Mother’s Day and MIL’s birthday solely to him, they pass unmarked. And my ultra-right wing MIL would blames me, because that’s part of my marital work load, as far as she is concerned. At first, I took care of things so that wouldn’t happen, and then I got to where I thought “eff that I’m not doing it” because I do not respect her opinion and don’t care what she thinks of me. I do suspect that I get talked about poorly to her friends and that bothers me some.

          1. My MIL is like thay too. She lets FIL get away with building a leaning tower of dishes to passive aggressively say dishes need to be done. I may or may not have told a 60 year old man he can do his own damn dishes.

          2. isn’t that sad that your husband can’t be bothered to get her a card to protect you form that?

        4. Pick your poison and if you pick do more work over consequences to his actions, I think you have to accept that and just do more.

    7. My husband and I have had multiple conversations and arguments about this. I think he finally gets it. It helps that he’s a responsible person who shoulders a lot of the planning and logistics of projects at work, so he gets how hard that stuff is. Once I pointed out to him that what he does at work, I do for our family, a light bulb went off for him. I feel pretty good about our split up of chores. I still do most of the emotional labor but I’m generally okay with that.

      One thing I try to remember is that emotional labor is also a blessing. Because I do more emotional labor, I have better and stronger relationships than my husband does. This is partly why when old women die, their husbands are completely lost disasters, and when old men die, their wives have a large support systems to help them get through it. I think too (broad generalization here) that women have more in the moment guilt and men have more regret. I feel guilt, so I spend more time with my kid. My husband doesn’t feel guilt about not spending time with her, but is likely to regret missing out on her childhood more in the future.

    8. Been married 2 years. I do all of it other than his laundry and now he puts together the weekly peapod order (and then I fill in), and frankly, it’s more mental energy for me to fight over than just do it. He will cook dinner for himself if I’m not home/not hungry – we don’t eat a lot of the same foods so most of what he cooks (i.e., microwavable or freezer meals) I don’t eat, and when I cook I cook for both of us (and enjoy cooking). He clears the table to the sink but that extra step to the dishwasher is like a brick wall. He will be staying home with baby and I expect he will start doing more around the house since he will be home more – even with pregnancy he has been doing more because I have been so sick. I love my husband dearly, but if he’s “tired” there is no extra gear to power through stuff (e.g., the dishes, taking out the trash, etc. – it’s just not a priority for him). His tolerance levels are much higher than mine, so I work on asking him to do concrete identifiable tasks that may or may not get done and let the rest go or do it myself. FWIW, he was like this as a bachelor (got married at 33) as well and never cooked (takeout/freezer king), made the bed, changed the sheets, took out the pizza boxes, etc. unless it was absolutely rank, so I knew what I was getting into. Some of it is him, some of it is the way he was raised – his mother stayed home full time and had a full-time housekeeper and full-time nanny when he was a kid, which just boggles my mind (particularly considering he is an only child! And as far as I can tell, she has no hobbies! And now no friends! Unclear what she does all day other than figure out ways to drive him and me crazy!)

      Also, when we first got married I made the (crucial) mistake of redoing the dishwasher he loaded (IMO) incorrectly (i.e., 12 dishes is full because it’s necessary to have 3 plastic tines between everything so the plates don’t touch/break – we would run the dishwasher nonstop if that were a full load and in my entire life I have never broken a dish in the dishwasher). Now he has it fixed in his head that he can’t load the dishwasher because he does it wrong and it will upset me (no matter how many times I tell him I would rather have it loaded and run his way than not at all). If I could do it all over again I would have just let it be.

      2. Ha. For the first 3 years of our marriage, my dh moved all of the dishes around in the dishwasher after I loaded it. That was 32 years ago and I haven’t put a single item in the dishwasher since then. I put dirty dishes in the sink, and fill them with water to soak. But I don’t put anything in the dishwasher.

    9. You MUST divvy up chores and you MUST nag until it’s a habit. Like, laundry is your husband’s job. Or you cook MWF and he cooks TThS and you go out Sunday. Something like that. Otherwise you’re going to be stuck doing everything forever and that is just bullcrap. Not to mention, a terrible model for your kids.

      My husband does 50% of the household work (laundry, dishes) but complains that he does EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME. I cheerfully ignore him.

    10. I just realize the difference – husband simply doesn’t see small stuff, and so I point it out. I tell him – do this this and this. There is no need to nag, just tell him. If laundry needs to be done, or he needs to cook dinners for two nights, or he needs to clean the bathroom – just say it.

    11. We have very clear lists (we call them spheres of influence). So, I do “household management” (hire the nanny, keep track of appts, buy clothes), finances, laundry. He cooks/keeps the house tidy/anything related to the yard, house and cars. It works well enough for us because we each have the areas we care about (and we don’t care about the other’s area, that much.) The only problem is when one of us goes out of town – when I go, I have to give him lists of things to do (check the homework! make lunches!), and when he goes, he hopes I don’t feed the kids McDonalds for more than one night in row.

    12. My SO grew up with a SAHM and yet somehow he turned out well ;) I hope my son grows up to be similar, particularly because we’re both working. SO does all of the cooking, more of the baby care, some of the dishes/cleaning. I do most of the laundry, dishes, some of the baby care, scheduling of doctor’s visits, planning of vacations and all financial planning. This is just some of the work. We also have a housecleaner who comes every other week. I don’t worry about his family’s birthday cards/Mother’s/Father’s Day cards at all – if he wants to send them something, great, if he forgets, oh well. His family lives a plane ride away from us – if he wants us to visit them with the baby over the holidays, then he can plan it/let me know what he wants to do. Otherwise, I don’t worry about it. My parents live nearby, so I am perfectly happy to spend all of our holidays with them.

      I heard this on a recent podcast – a woman was feeling guilty about not having enough time to work and see her kids. Instead of suggesting more “life hacks,” the interviewer asked her what would happen if she just stopped feeling all the guilt? Women are pressured to feel SO much guilt over everything. It’s tough.

    13. I don’t know if this is strictly a gendered issue; it’s more about how you’re raised (admittedly, many men were raised with traditional gender roles, but I don’t think we’re talking about an innate male trait). My DH was raised to do chores and I was raised to be lazy. In our marriage, he sees and is bothered by messes much more than I am (he can’t relax if there are dishes in the sink, while I tend to wait until nap time so I can do it leisurely as part of a group of chores). We tend to have our default chores (me: laundry, bathroom, shopping, dishwasher unloading, day-to-day pickup after a child; him: outdoors, mainly cooking dinner + all meals on weekends, anything involving phone calls and hiring service people because I hate that, misc chores and cleaning). I also do most of the emotional/logistical labor and planning because I am naturally organized and don’t mind (I love paying the bills!). NB: he also works full-time, and I do not.

      In my case, I love him enough to try to make myself grow and notice/ deal with messes that I know bother him. For you to solve this, I think it’s one part realizing that people see things differently when it comes to house chores, and one part helping him to realize that improving in this area is part and parcel of his truly loving and respecting you.

  11. What’s your favorite item and why? (links if it can be bought, stories either way, please)

    1. A few things off the top of my head, all wedding-related: 1) a watercolor of our venue that was a gift from our wedding planner, 2) a watercolor of my bouquet, which was a gift from a friend who knew how much I loved my wedding flowers and 3) our really unique cake topper, which now sits on our fireplace mantel.
      I’ve purchased a lot of art I really like, both locally and while traveling, but the wedding things are more sentimental. I was so disappointed with our wedding photos, to the point that I don’t have a single one displayed in my house or office, so having these other wedding mementos is extra special.

    2. This will totally out me to anyone who’s been to my apartment, but I have several large framed pieces of Arabic calligraphy that I love. I got them when a pretty well-known calligrapher (Haji Noor Deen, if anyone’s familiar) was giving a demonstration at a conference and I asked him if I could have the examples he did on big pieces of chart paper. I cut off the edges of the pages to fit in frames and voila! Wall art that I’m obsessed with and will keep forever.

    5. Ephraim pottery. Easy to get obsessed.

      I have a craftsman home and it’s the perfect thing.

  12. Go ahead and be anonymous (and let’s not assume all “anonymous” posts here are the same person)!

    What’s something you haven’t told anyone or wouldn’t tell anyone or haven’t even admitted to yourself?

    Please remember too to comment or even add +1 or something when folks share, let’s support each other! <3

    1. Sometimes I worry that this is all there is. I’m becoming pretty content in my life and in its minimalism, especially as an introvert. I’m now in my early 40s. Do I just keep living this calm/content/quiet life until I die? Most days I’m okay with that idea, but sometimes I wonder if this is just monotony til death for me since I seem to have discovered what makes me happy and removed what doesn’t.

      3. Sometimes I get like that, and I think about the final quote from the Office: “There’s a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn’t that kind of the point?” and remember that “May you live in interesting times” is a curse, not a blessing.

    2. I hate that people think that being childfree is selfish. It is NOT selfish not to have a kid I wouldn’t want to devote my life to. It is NOT selfish to not want to damage and risk my body. It is NOT selfish to know that I love sleeping in and being a friend to the children of my friends and that I am better as a visiting grownup in kids’ lives than as a full time parent.

      Why do we always have to see not procreating as someone being too selfish to parent? Why not thank people for realizing when it’s not right for them and not bearing children to avoid the outside pressure, thus creating kids who weren’t really wanted or aren’t as cared for as every kid/human deserves?!

      1. I am pregnant and adore my friends’ kids, but I don’t think not having kids is selfish at all. If anything, I think it’s more selfish to have children. There’s nothing more selfish than wanting to propagate your own genes.

      2. Whomever thinks that is either a terrible person, possibly does not have kids themselves or is in complete denial about what parenting actually entails. Possibly a little of all three.

      3. “Why not thank people for realizing when it’s not right for them and not bearing children to avoid the outside pressure, thus creating kids who weren’t really wanted or aren’t as cared for as every kid/human deserves?!”

        This. I had one child because that is my emotional limit. When people repeatedly ask me when I’m having another or try to ask “helpful” questions about depriving my existing child of a sibling, I just want to shout at them. I am not bringing an unwanted child into this world to make someone else happy.

        1. I so hear you, as I also have one and people love to say how he “needs” a sibling or will grow up miserable and spoiled.

          As an only myself, my answers is that I do not think I am either of those things but they should feel free to share what they really think about me. If time permits, flouncing off in a huff works well.

        2. +1 million. We’ve chosen to have one child. We made the mistake of telling people we were happily one and done and I have gotten SOOOOO much $hit for our “selfish” decision. My husband has gotten so much less because it is way more acceptable for a man to want to focus on his career, his hobbies and his existing family, whereas some people seem to think women were put on earth just to procreate as much as possible. If I could turn back time I would simply demur when people ask if we’re having another and let them assume that we’re struggling with infertility. From the “but how could you do that to your child!?!?!” reactions I’ve gotten, you would think we turned our daughter lose in the tiger’s cage at the zoo.

        3. Plus another million. We just have one. We are 99% sure there will only ever be one. It’s not “selfish,” it is well thought out and logical!

          1. +1
            We had our “one” when i was young.. (still am, by the demographics for moms in the area) and “we are happy with 1” gets us such awful responses.
            Glad to be not bringing another baby into a world filled with such mean people :\

    3. I wonder sometimes what would happen if people sent each other flowers more often. Maybe that’s because no one sends me flowers and it feels too sad to buy them for myself.

        2. Count me in for another +1! Add them to your cart at the grocery store! I smile every time I walk by them :)

      2. +1 to buying them for yourself! I did it for the first time this week and it’s almost ridiculous how happy it makes me to see them when I get home every day!

      3. I buy a mix of fresh flowers every week at TJ’s or Whole Foods and arrange them around my house. It’s fun, not sad.

      4. Buy them for yourself! Bringing joy to your own life is absolutely worth it.

    4. I’m glad that my bf’s job didn’t agree to let him work remotely when we move. It was a toxic environment, which he recognized, but he hates change and turned down another offer last year because “what if it was worse?” (with no reason to think it would be). Now he has to find something new.

    5. I secretly think that people that spend time on lakes or the ocean all the time are happier than I am. If you post a picture to facebook of yourself on a boat, I automatically assume your life is basically perfect.

      1. I mean, they still have the same problems, but personally, spending time on the water does make me happier than almost anything else. That first deep breath of lake air or ocean air makes all my every day normal life problems flee to the back of my mind, even if I’m not on vacation.

      2. I always thought that too, even decorated with beach themes in my landlocked state. Then I moved. Lived within 20 mins of the ocean for years. No one there really went since they could always go “later” and it never seemed urgent (the way it does when you visit and you know you have 3 days to soak it up as much as possible). Instead, it took away the illusion for me about what life near the beach looks like. I think if you have $ or a home on the water or are a surfer, you truly feel better at the water all the time, otherwise, it just becomes part of the daily landscape and it gets ignored.

        Take all the trips to the water that you can if it helps you to relax on a vacation, but know that plenty of people live near the water with incredibly imperfect lives! <3

      3. This is me. In water, on water, around water. I can’t be landlocked. And I’m grateful every day that I live 3 blocks from a marina with a Starbucks so I can walk the dog down to the water in the morning and hear the halyards hitting the masts and the water lapping against the side of the boats. I would live on a boat if I could pull it off.

    6. I love the discussions here (except the trolls and those who always assume everyone is a troll), but sometimes it’s tough to come to this website. I chose a much more relaxed life (working from home, even when it’s 60 hrs a week sometimes), but my income level is around 40k/yr even though I have advanced degrees. It means I get to work in pj’s and do laundry while working and all of that and I love my life. However sometimes seeing women buying $400 shoes or talking about their husbands or paying off student loans in full or whatnot makes me feel like a bum or something. It also makes me want to raid their closets when they post about downsizing!

      1. I make $45k a year (in an office, I don’t even get to work from home). I think there are a lot more 99%-ers here than you think.

      2. Same, especially student loans. I make 45K, and I live in a HCOL city. I can’t put half my income or whatever towards student loans. Period. Half my income each year goes towards housing/parking/utilities.

        1. I just went from basically 30k/yr to 230k/yr. Plus all the insurance. I’m still trying to pay off debt, and I bought an expensive house (to be close to work), and I feel incompetent because I don’t have more/savings. I eat out and travel… and I have 3 kids. But I don’t buy clothes/shoes/jewelry… So don’t feel bad, and even those of us who are “making it big” sometimes don’t have it together.

    7. I married my husband because he was reliable and hard working, and after a really awful childhood I desperately craved stability. There have been times that have been really happy but other times I wonder if this is really it.

      2. I thought that for 20 years of my marriage too and just left it because he couldn’t see the next phase of our lives after our kids moved on and that scared me even more. I’ll let you know how it goes…..

    8. I am beyond awful at making friends. I have one close friend from high school and one close friend from college, but I have never been able to get past the small talk/friendly acquaintance level with anyone else. My two real friends are both bubbly and outgoing so when I lived near one of them I always had a group to hang out with, even if I didn’t have deep friendships with many people. But now I live far away from both of them and even though I have really been putting myself out there in a way that’s very uncomfortable for my introverted, socially anxious self, I just can’t seem to make friendships. I’m gradually getting better at small talk but I just can’t get connect with people on a deeper level. Lately there’s been a recurring pattern: I force myself to go to a group event and talk to people, I do a good enough job that I end up setting up one or two lunch or coffee dates, I hang out with that person once or twice and it’s kind of awkward and small talk-y and then it just fizzles out, because I’m boring and they don’t want to hang out with me again.
      I have so much to be thankful for in life – great husband, beautiful home, job I love – but I’m so sad and insecure about the fact that no one wants to be my friend.

        1. I’m so glad I’m not the only one! I have many superficial friends that I can get the occasional drink or coffee with, but hardly any close friends. I genuinely wonder who I will ask to be bridesmaids when I get maried

          1. I have no good friends IRL and so few connections in the city I’ve lived in for 12 years that I can’t think of anyone to list as backup if my house alarm were to go off and the police couldn’t reach me. My kid will go to college in 4 years, hopefully, and I fear I’ll be a lonely old woman. Introvert here.

          2. Use your future DH’s sister(s) if he has them, a female cousin if you have one, or don’t have attendants. I have two close friends and my DH has a sister. I should have insisted we cap our wedding party at three each or go uneven, but DH really, really wanted to ask six guys and wanted e to have six girls too (I feel like it’s weird for a guy to care if the wedding party is balanced, but he really did!). So I asked three much more distant friends and it turned out really badly. I think they didn’t really want to do it but said yes because they thought it would be too awkward to say no. One of them ended up dropping out before the wedding and one of them ended up participating but being incredibly rude (no participation in any of the pre-wedding events, no gift, said hurtful things to me about the wedding not being fancy enough, etc.). I’m no longer friends with either of them and am super disappointed that the one who didn’t drop out was in all my wedding party photos. I’d stick with your real friends or conscript your family members, which is way more socially acceptable.

          3. +1 to no addendants. One of the best decisions that I made!! If future DH has a close group of friends just do what we did and ask them to be ushers at the wedding.

      5. +1. And I’m not married and haven’t dated in forever. I always feel like there must be something wrong with me because nobody wants to be my friend.

    9. I am the strong one. The one with the crummy childhood. The one friends call at 2am because I always show up. The one who generally rebounds from my own life stuff fairly quickly (because, ya know, I’ve done it before). The one who always brings ice cream when you’re going through a breakup, who remembers birthdays, who saves for months to attend your wedding.

      I AM EMOTIONALLY EXHAUSTED. Please people, you know I’ll never ask, but send me an email or a card for no reason or to thank me for something I’ve done to support/help you along your path. Invite me over for dinner or to bring me leftovers when you cook too much. Include me in your family gatherings because you know I don’t have that in my life.

      You know I always show up for you and you tell me I do it without you asking, so please don’t make me ask. Show up for me.

      1. Tell them! As someone who’s married with kids it wouldn’t occur to me to invite my cool, put-together single friends to dinner because I assume they don’t want to sit in my horrendously messy house and watch my kids throw food all over each. But if I thought they actually wanted to come, I would have them over in a heartbeat.

        1. PLEASE invite them! Invite them by saying that the house is messy and the kids are loud. Invite them to come by to eat leftovers after the kids go to bed. If you’re running errands after, ask if they’re around and want to hit up the grocery store with you or if they want your leftovers (of things you know won’t get eaten). People can easily say no, but it’s not so easy to ask to be let into someone’s life who looks super busy and like they have a whole family/world that you don’t get to have!

      2. this +1000. Just because I can take care of things when someone else is in crisis doesn’t mean that I am totally without emotional needs of my own.

      4. Hi, are you me? Thissssss.

        And this is a reminder for me that I should not assume friends who seem to have it totally together are just too busy to hang out.

      5. Yes, Yes, Yes. With a deceased father, narcissistic/needy mother, sibling with issues and has no friends, friends who like to unload their problems, husband who needs lots of emotional support, and child who is attached at my hip, I’m exhausted. And sad that I’m always the caretaker/emotional support for everyone. And tired of taking on the emotional labor in all aspects of my life. How did I become the default strong one in my life? I don’t wanna be.

        1. I agree with this so much. I’m lucky to even get a thank you for always being the one to be there – much less returning the favor.

      6. I am tired and want to just watch movies on the couch on the weekend. I have a family but kind of wish I could ask my girlfriends over to just eat pizza and watch a movie. But it feels lame.

      7. My secret is similar. My dh deals wth depression and anxiety, and is generally emotionally high maintenance. I love him, and we’ve been together more than 20 years but sometimes I get really tired of always being the emotionally strong one. And it makes it really hard for me to have a bad day.

    10. I’m no longer depressed, and I still dislike my job most days. I just don’t feel like I’m making a difference and I feel horrible about it because I’m allegedly “doing good work” and got to design my “dream” job through a fellowship. I have another year and some months left of the fellowship and I’m so done. I feel like I should love it….I don’t. I feel a lot of shame/guilt that I don’t love it.

      1. And I used to love it when I was an intern- I’m realizing more of it might be because of that I had a wonderful leader/mentor/supervisor than that I loved the actual work. He made me feel like I was making a difference, and while my new supervisor is good….I don’t get that same feeling of accomplishment. I’m reading Leaders Eat Last and realizing how much of my job satisfaction comes from having good leaders.

        Now I’m crying at work, f.

        1. hugging you. Maybe you can find a mentor in the industry but outside of your company who you can email or coffee with?

          1. I get coffee with my old boss about once a month/every 6 weeks and on one hand, getting coffee with him is usually the highlight of my week, but on the other, it makes me painfully miss that time when I LOVED coming to work every day and had this mentor/boss who made me feel like I was rocking it and making a difference and just made me want to be a better person. I miss working with/for him more than I like to admit. Second secret: I was suicidal my 2L year of law school and one of the only reasons I didn’t was that he was so completely on Team Anon. Killing myself would have killed him.

    11. Today, for the first time ever, I had to ask my 10-year-old how to use a feature on my cell phone. And she doesn’t even have a phone of her own.

    12. For various reasons, I have zero s*x drive. I’ve been married for 18 years. I still initiate and and do it when he initiates, but I just fake it. I don’t even have much drive for self-gardening.

      1. I wish there was someone I could talk to about this IRL! I’m in a similar situation and I want to want to garden, it’s just not there.

        1. check with your GP or GYN if you think this is medical. Otherwise, try to see if makes a difference at different times of day or in different temperatures or different rooms of the house. Some say that, like any habit, it takes practice, so maybe try some self-gardening once a day and see if after a week or two, it spikes your body to crave it?

    13. I’ve recently realized that I’m a little hurt when I’m talking about something I enjoy and someone says “oh, I don’t have time for that.” Examples include reading novels, exercise, watching a lecture online, and having a pet. First of all, we’re all busy. We each “have time” for whatever we prioritize. Secondly, it’s not a big mystery that someone who’s single and doesn’t have kids may have more discretionary time than someone who’s coupled and has kids. This situation wasn’t necessarily by choice, so at least let me enjoy these things I have “time” for? Of if your comment actually comes from envy, just own your choices and say something kind like “that sounds so fun!” or “I’d love to do that!”

      1. I agree. It’s dismissive and impolite because it pretermits any conversation about you and your interests and turns it back to them….with a humblebrag. Ugh. I tell myself they are secretly jealous, which I know at least some of my mom friends are.

    14. I feel horribly, terribly guilty for not going into a PhD program. It’s still an option for the future, but I’m terrified I won’t ever actually do it. I know it wasn’t the right choice to do a PhD right now, but I’m worried that it will never feel like the “right choice”. I feel like I did all of this work and studied all of these things and it’s just going to waste because I’m not getting a doctorate right now. I’m afraid I’ll lose my connections to academia and won’t be able to get into a program if/when I do end up applying. I love this field so much, but I’m not sure academia is the right place for me and academia is one of the few places where I’d have viable options in this field. I just feel defeated and like I’ve failed.

      1. I am plotting a 3 week to one month vacation next year. I have been a dutiful, productive, reliable employee at this organization for more than a decade. Lots of women my age have had at least one month + break from work in the form of maternity leave*. I don’t have kids, so I’m figuring out how to give myself a month long sabbatical.

        *Fully recognizing that maternity leave is not a vacation, but it is a time away from work during which a person gets to focus on something important to them. For me, that’s not a kid but experiencing other cultures and trying to “find myself.”

        1. Sorry didn’t meant to reply to Ph.D. guilt (no guilt! Do what is right for you!) but to the OP.

        2. My firm allows equity partners to take a 3-month sabbatical once every decade or so (I don’t remember the exact requirement, not being an equity partner), and I think it is the greatest perk ever. Because sometimes you just need a month off.

      2. Don’t feel guilty. I’m a professor with Ph.D. students and I feel guilty every time I accept one because the job market in academia is so lousy (though it does depend on the field). If you’re not 100% sure you really want a career in academia, don’t do it and don’t feel guilty!

      3. I wouldn’t do a PhD unless I was certain I wanted a career in academia, but that’s just me. You may lose your connections to the scholarly world (that is up to you to a certain extent I think), but you might gain new connections in the job market and those connections could help you get back into academia if you decide later that path is right for you. Try not to spend too much energy on fearing potential future failure, and instead focus on figuring out what it is you really want right now: what is the next right step. Easier said than done, I know. I hope you find clarity in your purpose.

    15. I just had a major, major career success that is by any standard objectively impressive. It’s the pinnacle of my career so far. I thought I would feel good about something that I worked toward for so long, but instead I felt mediocre at best and generally blah and I have no idea why. The rest of my life is also going great. I’m not sure what to do about this except for just to move forward and hope it passes.

    16. I am in my early 30s and in the past two years or so, many, many of my friends have had babies. At this point, almost all of my friends are coupled. It seems like every week I find out someone is pregnant, and I’ve listened to so many vivid descriptions of how people have given birth, ins and outs of pregnancy, how newborn care is, how they found out they were pregnant, how breastfeeding is going, when they decided to try… (we’re all very open..). I’m single. I want to get married. I’ve been single for over 4 years now, despite trying. I’m really happy for everyone. I really am. But more often than not I break down in tears after leaving social events now because all I can think about is that I’ve missed the boat and no one will ever love me enough to want to marry me or have a baby with me. It’s exhausting to cheer constantly for everyone else, knowing you may never have what they have, and also watching your friends move to a new stage of their life and seeing your friendships change as a result.

      1. Also in early/mid 30s, also heard all those stories, also feeling those same relationship fears… though I feel like every guy wants someone to have kids with and, as someone childfree, I feel like I’m just totally missing the boat, the dock, and the water!

      2. +1 million. I’m 33 and single. And the worst part is, I used to be the hopeful one. The one who’s happy! And carefree! And not worried that I won’t ever get married! Even when I felt really lonely, I always believed, deep down, that I would find someone someday. Maybe it would take longer than everyone around me, but it would happen. But I recently got dumped by someone I thought might be a forever guy, and this time, I just can’t seem to reach down and grab that hope anymore. It’s just gone. I really think I might never find my person. It took me almost a decade (!) of being mostly single to find him… and then he left. So I doubt it’s going to happen again. Or at the very least, not until it’s too late to have biological kids, which is something I really, desperately want. I’m freezing my eggs this year and plan to consider having kids on my own if I’m still single in five years… No one knows, because I’m still the friend who cheers up all my fellow single 30-something friends when they’re lonely and tells them that I have hope and they should too! And yeah, every time ANOTHER friend tells me she’s pregnant, I tell her I’m so happy and then I go home and cry.

        1. hugging you… wishing we could live in a compound or in the same apt bldg or something so we could just hang and be each other’s plus one!

    17. Here’s one:

      I had a garden party yesterday with a guy I met on Tinder. I’m married, but only for a few more weeks (waiting for the legal waiting period to run in my state) and my husband and I agreed to date other people (we are having like the most amicable divorce ever). But I still feel really conflicted about it. On the one hand, why not be (safe) garden party positive and take ownership of my body and reject the patriarchal ideas about purity? But on the other hand I feel awful that I technically am married and also I just doubled the number of garden partners in my life and the guy is someone I like just fine but would probably not be in a relationship with and honestly I do seem to have internalized a lot of society’s attitudes about women. Also, it was not that good (it lasted less than five minutes).

      1. As a recently divorced person who has overcome a lot of their gender role hang-ups, particularly with regard to LGPs, I say give yourself time. And most importantly, enjoy this phase of your life that you’re getting to experience.

      2. Girl, there is nothing wrong with that. Keep trying, and try to garden with someone who cares about making you flower.

        NO SHAME

        high five to you

      3. You focused on your physical needs and you recognized the difference between a for now moment and a potential forever person, YAY YOU!

        It’s no issue when you’re not hurting anyone or hiding anything, so please try not to fight a battle no one is having with you! <3

    18. I’ve been thinking about doing some three-person gardening with the guy I just started dating and the friend who introduced us. The friend is bi and I have reason to think he’d be into it, but I don’t know how to bring it up and I definitely don’t want to bring it up when we haven’t been dating very long.

      1. Are you dating the new guy as a potential serious thing or is thus just fun? If it’s potentially serious, be cautious in whether you want to introduce a 3rd to the mix and maybe create new complications or expectations. If it’s just fun, have them both over to hang out, have some drinks, bring it up where your tone could be joking and see how they react. If they’re open to it, go with it, if not, you can play it off as a joke and no one’s the wiser.

        Or if you want that in your life and fear one or both aren’t open to it, go seek it out, don’t let anyone else’s stuff stop you from getting whatever groove you want on!

      2. As a girl who is bi please don’t assume that she would be into a three person gardening situation just because she’s bi. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing but just a warning, because most girls who are bi and out are pretty sensitive to that, myself included.

    19. I am beyond drowning in debt. I have been substituting spending for alcohol and not dealing with uncomfortable or hard feelings (so says my therapist who I trust and is usually dead on). I had a panic attack last week because I have no idea how to get out of it all. I have to pay rent and to do so I will be playing with fake money (my bank gives me an overdraw buffer). I have 200k in student loans, have used all possible forbearance/deferment options. I make $85k in a M-LCol area and I cannot make ends meet. Credit card debt, family loans, everything is so overwhelming. I have no family to speak of and I am so ashamed of getting to this place. I’m in my late 30s so a roommate is not an option. It never goes well for me and roomies anyway. I cut cable, have very few “discretionary” spending things. I am now late on almost everything except rent and my car. And I’m so tired from the emotional toll it takes. I’m a lawyer, I make decent money, I should be so much better than this.

      1. re: “no family to speak of” and “Family loans” -> loans are from an aunt to helped me out right after law school but I don’t really have a close family or any other family. No one I can lean on.

      2. Can you find a debt counselor to help you out? Might help you start to take some steps if you haven’t already in terms of what to payoff first / negotiating settlement options with the various credit card companies. I have heard it is better to proactively negotiate these things. Sometimes once the ball is rolling (for me at least) on something difficult the panic subsides a bit because I have a plan. Not knowing where to start is the hardest part.

        Hugs to you…I have confidence you will fix this one step at a time.

        1. I agree — you can do this.

          And if you are staying sober, that is awesome. You are one step ahead of me.

          <3

      3. I had to do a triple-take to make sure that I didn’t post this. I have no answers but I totally relate. Let me know if you want to trade emails, for commiseration if nothing else. You are not alone. I have good days and bad days. I’m paying my rent on credit card this month because I don’t have the cash. I don’t have the cash because every dime of my paycheck goes towards paying off credit card debt. It’s a five-figure number that doesn’t round to 0, if you catch my drift.

      4. 1st of all, breathe! It will all be okay. It will. You’ll get there.

        How about checking out the ebook of Suze Orman’s “young fabulous and broke” and/or watching some Gail Vaz-Oxlade episodes on youtube for ideas about budgeting?

        Make a list of everything you owe, the monthly payments, and the interest rates. You may find that the bulk of the issue is credit card or other consumer debt and that considering bankruptcy may be your only option. You may be able to call the student loan company and find out about lowering payments rather than defaulting.

        As for the sobriety, there must be AA meetings daily in your area or somewhere far enough away that you can really feel anon? Even if AA isn’t your thing, it might be a good jumping off point to meet some sober friends you can lean on when you struggle.

        Most of all, please please stop thinking you should have it all together. We’ve all got at least one thing we feel like that about. It means you’re not messy or off or silly or whatever the voice in your head says, it means you’re human. <3

    20. I spend too much. I secretly think I’m lazy and unattractive. I work a lot of hours and turn out good product but secretly I feel lazy because I know I could be doing more.

      Unattractive is deeply rooted and I never believe my husband or friends when they tell me I’m pretty/beautiful/s3xy.

      2. + 8 million. Also secretly fear that my laziness is genetically hard wired because my father is incredibly lazy. Like he just stopped working at 50 for no reason and has never done anything at home except mow the lawn and make coffee. It terrifies me that I am just like him and can’t change that. It is paralyzing to the extent that I think I self sabotage at work and in my marriage.

      1. Really no friends? I always say I have no friends but really it means I have 2 and I’m perfectly happy with two. I drop people like hot potatoes when they do ethically questionable things like cheating on spouses or tax evasion.

          1. An unfortunately large number. I don’t even think my moral standards are that high

        2. Actually none. I have people I work with whom I’m friendly with, but no one who I see outside work.

          I never meant to get this way but looking back I’ve always been like this. Even at school I never saw anyone over the hols, just term time. I try, but I just can’t seem to change. My father was exactly the same, all his friends were really my mums. Can it be genetic?

          1. If you’re in the greater DC area and feel like posting an email, I’ll grab coffee with you! I could use more friends too.

          3. I bet there is someone on this board who lives near you and would hang with you.

    22. I have a good life. It’s far better now than my background and life experiences should have produced, and I know that’s down in part to sheer stubbornness. But there’s really no one who knows everything I’ve had to overcome to get to this point. Maybe I want some recognition for making it? Or that people in my life don’t know me authentically if they only have this surface view?

      1. I’m a successful professional. If one more trophy wife treats me like the building concierge when I’m in a suit or pities me for having to work too hard, I may snap and tell her exactly what I think she should do with her yoga mat.

    23. I stopped smoking pot three weeks ago after it was taking over my life. I feel great. I sleep better, I’m present in the evenings (and the mornings), I’m not paranoid about getting caught anymore, I don’t have a gross smoker’s cough or overproduction of phlegm anymore, and very best of all: I’m dreaming again, vivid memorable dreams, some of them frightening, some of them weird, but all of them mine. I haven’t dreamt in years. And unlocking this puzzle piece makes me feel like all the other shit in my life, like my drinking, might be manageable too.

      1. Congrats!! You can totally conquer anything you want! As you feel stronger, take on something else, if you want. It was amazing how much clearer I felt when I stopped drinking. Good job you!!

    24. I love my pets and care for them as best I can, but I’m realizing I’m not a solo pet owner after leaving my partner who I got them with. If they came back to me and said “I can take them,” I would be a little sad to part with them but I also feel like they tie me down so much. I’ve had to pay for a pet sitter 7 of the 9 months I’ve been living solo.

    25. I regret picking a god mother for my child. I have friends that I have stayed in touch with since kindergarten and I felt I needed to pick one of those friends. I actually like and have more fun with my neighbors (that I haven’t know that long). I don’t have close friends. I don’t have friends I could talk to about this.

      I realize the god mother doesn’t actually need to have a role in my family’s life, but I think we both feel forced to be in touch. I really feel it would be easier for both if we just stopped trying to socialize. Looking back I realize I chose her because I had supported her through a long difficult phase in her life and I felt she needed me and being god mother would be a kind gesture.

      She is much happier now but also really mean. She feels she moved upwards and onward and keeps pointing out flaws in my life and home. And I’m pretty happy in my life and home. We have a common social circle so I feel pressured to keep socializing every once in a while and afterwards have a soothing glass of wine to feel better.

      Another visit is imminent :( What’s a reasonable rate of socializing?

      1. You can suddenly be pretty busy, knowing you’re both just being polite. Plus you can stop reaching out and see if she just lets it fizzle. As for the godparent thing, that person doesn’t have to be the person in your will who cares for your kid(s) if something happens to you, you can choose someone else. Let your kid foster other relationships and the kid will likely bond to another adult and not bond or ask for the mean one!

    26. Something I have not admitted to myself:

      I am wonderful and complete as I am, interesting, very smart, resilient, highly accomplished, attractive and 100% worthy of loving and being loved.

  13. I am so sick of being the only colleague in my office who is female and doesn’t have kids. I am not sad or pathetic like the looks you give me imply. Nor do I want to work extra because your kid was sick or has a soccer game. I am glad your child has a parent who shows up for them, I truly am, but your absence shouldn’t mean more work for me, especially when supervisors allow for these flex schedules and such “because kids” but when I don’t get the benefit because I don’t have any and there’s no general flex schedule policy in the office.

    3. This is a continual frustration for me. I want companies to be kinder to families (flex schedules, etc.) because I appreciate that having kids, especially in a capitalist society, can be hard, but I hate being the default person for everything because I “don’t have a life”.

      1. Me too. I watch all the time the parents (men and women) take off to be with their kids, leave early to do stuff with kids and ALL the phone calls they take from their kids and make about their kids. And I realize that the company is getting my undivided time and attention at work AND my overtime and travel hours.
        I truly don’t want the parents to have less flexibility and understanding from the company. I’m glad this is a family-friendly place to work. I want my coworkers and their families to have that. But part of me resents being the undistracted one who is ALWAYS there and always handling things.

  14. Looking for advice on practice a few months into SMALL Law: No personality issues, but my question is work related. I have 1 partner (the only partner!) to draw work from. He’s genial and gives me projects from time to time and I’m not afraid of knocking to ask for more, but I feel like I might be wearing on him when I drop by all the time.

    is this normal? am I too early to be bugging out? Should I consider it an adjustment period on boss’s part – as in, “new associate in the office, have to remember to take a moment to delegate tasks out” — or is there something more I should be doing to push for work? (I try to look through the calendar and on the cases I’ve touched to proactively see what I can do…)

    I’ve only worked in larger offices where I never had to find work, so I feel very self-conscious about not billing a full 8 hours – so far I hover around 5-6 hours…

    but then I think I just have new job anxiety. Or that it’s just normal to not be billing like a madwoman in tiny law environment? It’s a strict 9-5 vibe too.

    1. I worked in a firm almost that small for a few years. You’re fine. He/they know how much work you have and how much you’re billing. You’re fine unless they say something.

    2. It’s normal. Once partner can trust your work, you will get assigned entire cases to manage. Time isn’t tracked the same in small law as big law. You also probably provide a lot of other services to the office that aren’t billable. Do you screen new clients? Meet with vendors? Work on marketing? Attend bar events that associates don’t normally get sent to? My small firm doesn’t even track hours for the first year or two and after that they just want to make sure everyone has some stuff to do. They care more about receivables but again, they don’t care about receivables for the newer people. The newest person is like an assistant to us. They do legal work but we don’t expect them to be a cash cow. More like a summer associate for the first year or two. Is your work all hourly or do you have contingency work too?

  15. Does it make more sense to set up a telecommuting schedule before you have kids or after? My company has a flexible work policy where many people WFH every Friday. I have done this as hoc about every other week and my manager is fine with it. Some other have formal arrangements which allows them to wfh every Friday. Should I make this an official arrangement? I do not have children yet but would definitively want this later on. My only hesistation about requesting for it later is that it’s seen as leaning out. Whereas if I do it now and maintain my level of work, it’ll just be seen as a continued set up.

    1. Does it need to be formalized if others are doing it too? Why not just start working from home every Friday and see how it goes?

  16. Does it make more sense to set up a telecommuting schedule before you have kids or after? My company has a flexible work policy where many people WFH every Friday. I have done this as hoc about every other week and my manager is fine with it. Some other have formal arrangements which allows them to wfh every Friday. Should I make this an official arrangement? I do not have children yet but would definitively want this later on. My only hesistation about requesting for it later is that it’s seen as leaning out. Whereas if I do it now and maintain my level of work, it’ll just be seen as a continued set up.

    1. Does it need to be formalized? Can you just start working from home every Friday and see whether that works for you and whether anyone notices/cares?

      1. There are official forms to fill out to make it a formal arrangement, mainly so the company is covered from liability and employee certifies they have proper equipment, etc.

    2. I would set it up now just for convenience. I do want to warn you though: I did WFH for a couple weeks when we got our foster baby (5 weeks). It was not at all what I thought it would be. I got ZERO work done and spent all my time caring for an easy, happy baby who just wanted all my attention. I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t set something up now – just know that this isn’t really a practical way to get work done and cut day care costs. Just something to think about!

      1. Thanks for the input. Definitely not meant to cut daycare costs but more of a mental break from the office and long commute.

      2. Most employers with a formal WFH policy make it crystal clear that if there are children under X age in the home during work hours (8? 10? can’t remember), then there needs to be another adult in the home dedicated to childcare. Bc WFH is NOT you juggling work and childcare at the same time. I WFH 100% of the time and that ish would get me fired.

      3. What? You don’t work from home and care for a baby at the same time. That’s something you’re lucky you didn’t get fired for.

      4. Yeah, WFH means WORK not take care of a baby. If you have a baby in the house you need at least a mother’s helper there to watch the baby during working hours, and ideally a full-time nanny.

  17. Does it upset you when someone refers to their pet as their fur child/baby or when someone comments in comparison/concert with their pet story to your kid story?

    For example, when a person talks about p0tty training their child and someone responds with a story of housebreaking their puppy… or when the latter asks the former how housebreaking is going (clearly not trying to be funny or mean, just not remembering that the same action is called different things for humans vs puppies).

    Or when, in a company where folks regularly work 60+ hrs/week, a person wants to leave work a tad early to not keep their puppy crated for longer than necessary versus someone wanting to leave a tad early to see their toddler before he goes to bed

    1. Oh dear god, yes it does. I have friends who are very guilty of this on the pet side.

    2. I do not care either way. You live the life that suits you and talk about it how you like, and I’ll do the same. I’m adult enough to be able to happily interact with people different from me.

    3. I think that your two examples are fairly different, to be honest. If you’re asking about whether it offends people with children to implicitly equate kids and pets by chiming in with a pet story when they’re talking about kids…I have no idea, because I don’t have kids, only pets. I sometimes do what you’re describing, but would never do it if the issue was a serious one (e.g., my puppy almost died earlier this year – it was horrible, but I would never talk about my fear and anxiety during that week if someone was telling me a story about their child’s life-threatening illness).

      The second example is totally different in my view – crating a dog for too long is a well-being issue, not something that a person only worries about if they equate dogs and kids. You’re not comparing dogs to children by leaving early to ensure that a puppy isn’t crated for an inappropriate period of time.

      1. +1. Also, if you are someone without kids, it may be hard to participate when a conversation turns and stays on kid topics for too long and it’s natural to chime in with what might not be the ideal comparisons from a parent point of view.

      2. Fully agree.

        OP, leaving an animal crated for 14 hours a day is terrible for the animal and has nothing to do with your children. It sounds to me like you are _also_ guilty of equating pets and children based on this comparison.

        1. +1. I sense from this second example that a “my time is more valuable than your time, because mine involves children” mindset is at play.

    4. A brand new lawyer at our firm once told several of us with kids that she was planning to get a kitten and was actually upset that there was no such thing as “peternity leave” as she felt she should be able to take at least a month off to bond with her new baby. She did not last long.

      2. ….I’m laughing out loud. I just got a new puppy who I adore to the ends of the earth, but I took one day off last week because he attempted to dig his way out of my room and worked from home. Peternity leave? Laughing out loud.

      3. AHAHA, my old boss was like this. Her elderly dog passed away, and she did take like a month off from work to grieve. She told one of our vendors that she was out because, “Her little girl died.” I received a panicked note from our account rep thinking that her human child had passed away. While a pet passing away is very sad, I really don’t think that it compares to losing a child. When she was getting her new puppy, she said that it was like having a newborn child. When multiple co-workers suggested that this was a little over-the-top, she compared it to a colleague who’s wife had just had a baby. It was the same thing, since she didn’t need to physically recover from birth, so it was like she was the father with a pregnant wife. Again, no. I’m sorry, but no. I have neither pets nor children, and I tried to be understanding, but lady, that’s ridiculous.

    5. No kids, no pets, but probably will become a dog owner and stay childless. I think if the person is not trying to be funny or mean, then comparing the child to the puppy on the housebreaking/p training is odd but maybe not offensive. As for the second part on leaving early, I definitely don’t care. Your time is your time, whether you want to use it to see your child or your puppy.

    6. Childless (but pregnant) dog owner here. We call our dog our fur baby, so no it doesn’t annoy me when people do that. I will say that I know someone who refers to her dog as her “son” (with no modifier like “fur” or “doggie” at all) and she and her husband celebrate Mother’s/Father’s Day (cards, gifts, brunches, the whole shebang) even though they are childless. I think THAT is extremely weird. But plenty of friends with and without kids use the term “fur baby.”

      1. Oh I do furbaby mother’s/father’s day because gifts are my love language, so I love the excuse to give or get dog-themed gifts.

        1. I think it’s not so weird if you do it with tongue firmly planted in cheek. A friend is throwing a birthday party for her cat, but it’s because she wants an excuse to get her friends together and drink and eat cake. I’m going and excited about it! I love wine, cake and cut cats.
          But these people seem to genuinely believe they are parents because they have a dog. Trust me, they come off as absolutely insane on social media. On Mother’s Day she posts things like “Dear Rover, I love you so much. Thank you for coming into my life and making me a mother. I am the luckiest woman in the world to get be your mom.” It would be a little overshare-y even if she were talking about a human child and it’s totally insane with a dog.

          3. I majorly eyeroll over those posts even when about actual babies…someone posting that over a pet would possibly cause me to hit the unfriend button in embarrassment. And I *love* pets and have had many of them over the years.

          4. I am totally planning a doggie playdate for my dog’s birthday – it’ll also be a fundraiser for a local rescue org. I have lots of friend with dogs who are totally stoked to go to a dog-friendly party, and lots of friends who are sort of adorably psyched to come hang out with dogs. But I guess I have a verrrrry dog-friendly social circle.

          5. cbackson, that is actually super cute and sounds like heaven to someone with no pets right now….I don’t suppose you happen to be having this party in Toronto?

    7. I talk about my dog when people talk about their kids because it’s the closest way I can relate to the subject. If you don’t want to talk about my dog, don’t talk about your kid, I guess, but I’d rather we all got to talk about what we love.

      1. Agreed. Longtime dog owner, new mom here. I think kids are a safe default topic but they cut lots of people out.

        As for leaving early for a puppy, it’s so wildly dependent on the workplace and your role. I would go home if my dog walker said my (medicated epileptic) doc had had a seizure, but not for routine things like letting him out early.

      2. +1. There is a significant amount of overlap between the two endeavors (pet-rearing and child-rearing) in the early stages of parenting a kid, and often friends’ descriptions of dealing with their kids’ issues reminds me of issues I faced when dealing with a sick, needy, anxiety-riddled rescue dog. I happen to never use the term “fur-baby” but I do often share experiences like these as part of a conversation with child-rearing friends. Society really likes to diminish the emotional significance and labor of pet ownership in subtle ways, which is sad!

      3. Speaking of dogs, have you been successful in getting your dog back from Ex-Mr.Wildkitten?

    8. I don’t /love/ the furbaby moniker, but I chalk it up to my own misanthropy and let it go usually. My boss is one of those people who literally thinks her dog is a person. She debated taking bereavement leave when her dog stopped eating. For one day. And yes, she follows up my baby stories (which she initiates, btw) with “oh yeah he’s sleeping through the night? Coco didn’t sleep through the night until we started letting her sleep in our bed!” Cool story lady! That’s called cosleeping in humans and it’s quite ill-advised. Eye roll.

      I love my dog and I love my kid. They are not the same. Please stop pretending they are.

      1. Oh, give her a break, she’s just trying to make conversation. No, dogs and kids are not the same, but it’s not that weird when a parent shares a story about baby’s sleep habits for a non-parent to make a comment about their dog’s sleep habits. She’s just trying to keep the conversation going.
        And this comment… “That’s called cosleeping in humans and it’s quite ill-advised.” Judgy much? Tons of people co-sleep. And even if you frown upon co-sleeping for kids, her dog’s not a baby (as you pointed out) so I don’t see the problem.

        1. I think it may also be a cultural thing. To me, it seems like such a bizarre thing to worry about if a dog is sleeping through the night – it’s on the same level as pet-ternity leave for me! It’s like one of those first world problem memes. Meanwhile, I can’t even picture my mom ever even petting a dog.

      3. I hate the word “furbaby,” much as I hate the word “adulting.” It immediately makes me think of a millenial with too many highlights (or ombre, why? just why?)

    9. My horrible secret, pertinent to the above thread, is that I feel contempt for these people. I don’t know why. Pets are fine. But they seem to lead such sad, boring lives and I’m irrationally annoyed by it. Also I don’t think someone who is working 60+ hours a week should have a pet, if they live alone. That seems really cruel.

      1. I’m sad that you think my life with my dog is sad and boring. But it’s cool. You can think that while we’re out hiking or playing Frisbee or going on a road trip.

        1. I read this that “they” were the pets having sad boring lives! And thought I guess it’s better than being in a shelter or stray!

          1. Yeah I think she was saying it’s sad and boring for a pet whose owner is at work all day, not that pet owners lead sad and boring lives. But I don’t agree either way. Dogs get SO much happiness from being part of a family tribe.

        2. I don’t mean you, unless you are out there regaling people with stories about housebreaking your pup when someone talks about potty training their kid.

          1. I don’t want to hear about a child’s bowel movements, so if you don’t want to hear about my pet’s then don’t bring it up.

      2. I totally get where you’re coming from. I think people with kids lead boring lives, and they annoy me. I’d rather see and talk about dogs any time.

        1. And I tend go doubt the sad and boring life comment was about the pets’ lives.

    10. Yes

      When I lost my 3 year old child to cancer, I had people tell me they understood because their dog had died.

        1. +1
          I don’t mind if people swap silly/ frustrating pet stories with silly/frustrating kid stories, because a lot of the antics are similar. But comparing the loss of a pet to the loss of a child is awful.

          I’m so sorry for your loss, and that these people (while probably well-meaning) we’re so insensitive.

    11. My own pets are full-grown adults with parents of their own; I don’t think of them as children in any way. Heck, at this point, they are older than me!

      Even if someone bottle fed their orphan pet, I would be put off by someone comparing the toll of caring for a child vs. caring for a pet. The role is different, the responsibility is different, humans are objectively a lot harder to raise to adulthood, etc.

      On the other hand, humans are animals too, and I’m not particularly insecure about similarities between people and animals. If what works for dogs or horses also works for kids or trainees, cool! I don’t see the purpose of being defensive about how we’re so much better or higher or more important than other creatures; the parallels that exist don’t add up to “so basically puppies are humans.”

      Plenty of good people do the furbaby stuff a little ironically. But there are also many “pet parents” whose pets would be better off if they weren’t forced to stand in for human babies. Precisely because I care about animals, I am pretty wary of people who seem to think that animals are whatever they want them to be!

  18. I often remark to my partner that I a d a m n good at my job, which I would say I believe is 80% true and 20% winging it. Today I received praise from FOUR people, including a VP and an assistant GC (I am not in the legal department). The two others are not as high ranking, but expressed a lot of gratitude and appreciation towards me. I work in a position that does not get a lot of good visibility, so it was really nice to hear/see and made me more confident that I really am d a m n good at my job!

    I hope all the ‘ r e t t e s have nice weekends. Cheers!

    1. HAHA I am clearly NOT good at proofreading however. Sigh. I think it’s time to go home.

  19. Does anyone have experience with the sizing on Viscata shoes? I’m exactly a US size 8, but I have never bought shoes in European sizing before.
    Reposting from this morning, because my brand-specific question was buried down thread.

  20. I have a 2-hour meeting scheduled with a local resumee writer/coach.
    I’ve been submitting resumees since last October (maybe earlier, but definitely laid off last October) and gotten 1 interview for a position far below me. This is through working with recruiters, directly, informational interviews, etc. etc.
    Any suggestions on how to be a good client for a resumee coach writer? She’s $125/hour so I’d like to be efficient!!

    1. Resumes are so personal, but yours is not working for you. So, make sure that you stop and listen to what the coach has to say rather than trying to fight tooth and nail every suggestion. I’ve seen people do this–not suggesting you *will* but it happens– and it must make coaches wonder if you actually want the assistance. To put it in a lighthearted way, go in with an open mind and a closed mouth.

      Also, be open to the idea that you may have several versions of your resume for different opportunities.

      Good luck! Job searches suck!

    2. I am not trying to be the spelling police, but it’s resume, not resumee. I’m only posting so you don’t put that in a cover letter or email.

      Good luck!

      1. Very true. I’ve been trying to imply the accent marks over the Es, but I guess that is no longer necessary. Thanks!

    3. If you have them, take job postings that you’ve applied for, and thought you were qualified for. Ask her what she thinks your resume was missing. Or better yet, take postings that you haven’t applied for yet and ask her how to best position your experience on your resume.

  21. My friend didn’t invite me to her wedding and I feel really upset about it. She invited everyone from our old high school friend group but me, and I feel specifically left out. I guess I just misinterpreted our friendship and thought we stayed closer than we did in her mind, but it really hurts. It’s bothering me and I want to talk to her about it, say “what gives? Why didn’t you invite me to your wedding? You invited everyone else, why didn’t I make the cut?” but I don’t really know what it would do. She can’t really go back in time and re-invite me, so I’m not really sure what I want from her other than an explanation, and I’m not even really sure I want that.

    1. I can’t speak to your friendship, but I don’t think you will gain anything from that conversation.

      I’d reach out after the wedding to congratulate her (and offer to meet up/catch up if you’re so inclined). She may volunteer an explanation.

      I will say, as someone who recently financed her own wedding and had a very slim guest list (we each invited 2 friends outside of our wedding party), the idea of an offended friend calling me out is very stressful. Of course, it sounds like she is having a much larger affair, so I can see why a non-invite would bother you.

    2. I don’t really see what could be gained from this conversation. I don’t think there’s any possible explanation other than that you’re not as close as you thought. I would just try to accept that your friendship has changed and treat her accordingly.

      Fwiw, I’ve been there and I’m sorry. I had what I thought was a close friend be a bridesmaid in my wedding. During the wedding planning process she was very weird and unenthusiastic about everything which was kind of hurtful, but I didn’t blow up at her or do anything (that I’m aware of) that was unreasonable or mean. Pretty much as soon as the wedding was over she became extremely chilly to me and basically made it clear she didn’t want to be friends anymore. She got married three years later and I wasn’t invited. I still have no idea what happened and it still stings a bit. Sometimes I wish I had confronted her but when I think about it calmly and rationally I realize she probably just “wasn’t that into me” and was perturbed to be asked to be a bridesmaid and discussing it with her wouldn’t lead to any satisfactory resolution.

    3. Are you 100% sure she didn’t invite you? We had some invitations get lost in the mail.

      1. Didn’t you follow up with those people though when they didn’t RSVP? This isn’t a casual weekend BBQ – normally the bride and groom need a definite yes or no from every single person. I know it’s tempting to say “oh it might have gotten lost in the mail” but I really think the odds of that are one in a million.

        1. We had one or two lost in the mail, which we found out when they didn’t RSVP and we called to see what was going on.

        2. I didn’t get invited to one of my friend’s wedding — and the rest of our ‘group’ did. It wasn’t that big of a deal to me, but later it came up that she had invited me but for whatever reason I never got the invite. Odd that she wouldn’t follow up or ask me about it. I think to this day she thinks I ignored her…and I think she never actually invited me…

    4. Have a friend casually ask the bride. Like, “hey, we are planning transport and lodging for the wedding. X hasn’t mentioned getting an invite? Was she invited? I don’t want to ask her about her plans if she wasn’t.” Bride will likely give an explanation with her no.

    5. I’m sorry. This just happened to me too. She had her reasons and none of her reasons are my business. Perhaps she had a family member pop up at the last minute that her mom made her invite or she just doesn’t like me all that much. Either option is fine by me! It means I don’t have to spend the money on going and I know all of my friends will give me any and all gossip. I have chosen to look at it in a positive light becuase there is nothing I can do about it.

    6. I’m going to take the minority position here and say you should talk to your friend about this — but wait until after the wedding. I’m a believer in airing things out in a respectful and mature way. You may find that the friendship is able to continue, perhaps in a different form than you had previously expected, or you may find that it makes more sense to keep distance between the two of you. Either way, I think you’ll probably be able to move on from the confused and hurt place you’re in right now.

  22. Can anyone suggest an endocrinologist in NYC? Particularly one who specializes in PCOS and thyroid issues? Many thanks!

    1. I saw Vivian Sobel at Weill Cornell for hypothyroidism during my pregnancy. Not sure if she specializes in PCOS, but worth checking out her background.

  23. LADIES!!!!!! Podcast update… I am moving along with it. I have gotten some amazing women to agree to be interviewed and I am SO EXCITED. I did a soft launch of twitter and facebook accounts to start getting people interested. Today alone I nailed down some seriously impressive women to interview. I CANNOT WAIT FOR IT TO LAUNCH!!!

  24. I just clicked on a news article, and it was blocked by my work. The page states “Content blocked by your organization. This Websense category is filtered: Gay or Lesbian or Bisexual Interest.”

    I am not gay, but I am very offended that they would block this category of websites. I’m not sure if it’s intentional or not. Should I say something, or alert someone?

    1. This is the OP. Sorry it was unclear, the link I clicked on was from facebook, and was totally unrelated to this site.

    3. Absolutely say something. If your company wants to block sexual content, fine. But don’t differentiate between hetero/not hetero and certainly don’t block non sexual “gay interest” content. I’d bet that this is a weird default category/label for the software though, so approach it that way with IT or HR.

      1. As an IT person (and in fact one of the people making recommendations on blocked categories), I can tell you that firewall software definitely does have categories like this. It sounds like, if it was news, it may have been miscategorized.

  25. I’m in detention, and I didn’t get blocked. I’m offended as well. The good news though is I have a nice new tablet. Thank you, N&D! :)

  26. I saw someone posted before a link of where they order their daily plan books, organizers. Please remind, or any ideas appreciated. :)

  27. Packing for a summer trip and looking for sample size mascaras, makeup, and hair stuff like conditioner. Any recommended websites? I’ve looked at the travel bottles, but even 2 oz sizes are big. Really dislike the quart size liquids situation when trying to do only a carry on suitcase.

    1. Honestly other than mascara decant stuff like foundation into small containers like you can get at Sephora and don’t take too many products. Use the hotel shampoo, simplify your skincare etc. You can buy items like sunscreen there.

    3. Contact lens containers are great for travel with small amounts of products like night moisturizers and serums.

      2. +1 – to contact lens containers. Also Sephora. if you buy three travel size whatevers they give you a zipper quart bag free.

    4. Nalgene sells 1 oz. jars. I used them a lot when I was traveling for a lot of quick 1 nighters (vs. the larger containers I use when I travel for longer stays. Haven’t had an issue with them leaking at all. In fact, some of the samples from clinique or neutrogena that I keep for vacation are more prone to leakage, particularly face wash.

    5. My makeup bag goes into my suitcase as-is, and I carry it on with no problems. I don’t take it out when I take out my bag of liquids (hairspray, contact solution, shampoo). There’s no need to decant foundation or mascara for TSA purposes. I fly frequently and have never had a problem.

    6. Try TKB and you’ll have a tiny containers for everything. They are cheap and cosmetic grade (meaning they can hold pure alcohol or oil without the plastic dissolving anything into what you are storing). I use them a lot. Not only for traveling. E.g. I can mix the perfect shade of foundation in between seasons.
      https://howtomakecosmetics.com/collections/all-bottles/products/1-2-fl-oz-white-translucent-bottle
      https://howtomakecosmetics.com/collections/all-bottles/products/small-plastic-bottles-and-caps

    7. I have Birchbox for this reason. Also Container store has lots of travel sized containers. I use a pill case from there for jewelry too!

  28. What’s the name of the light gray color that has been recommended here before?

    2. Sherwin Williams Mindful Grey is the paint color everyone (including me) loves.

    1. Yes, I am safe and everyone that I know of so far is also! Thanks for checking!

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