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MH
When is it okay to wear white pants? I know the old rule is only between Memorial Day and Labor Day, but without that as a guide, I’m at a loss. By the way, I’m in the midwest where it’s still cold outside, so I think the rules are a little different from like Miami where it’s 80 degrees. Or maybe there just aren’t any rules anymore? Still, it would seem odd to wear white pants in February or November. So, I’m assuming that it’s okay to wear them now until like mid-late September. Any thoughts?
K
I am in DC and it’s a little over 70 degrees today. I’m wearing white cotton/linen pants with light brown/beige stripes and a thin light brown sweater and I’ve gotten lots of compliments on the pants today. I’m no fashion expert but these days I think wearing white just means you need to match the season. Right now as long as your outfit says spring as opposed to summer in terms of fabric, cut, etc., I think you’re fine.
RoadWarriorette
I don’t know what the actual rules are, so I am just stating what I do….. I think that when it’s warm enough to be considered actual spring (ie the temps are consistently higher than 70) it’s okay to wear white pants. Then when it starts getting cold again, time to put them away.
That being said, I live in Texas, so I wear white pants from April-October :) By the time we hit Memorial Day it’s at least 90 degrees every day, and it can be consistently 100 far into September.
Legally Brunette
I agree with the other posters. Warm and sunny = white pants.
I will also say that I went to the Gap last night and tried on the long and lean jeans in white. I love them! They were very flattering on my slender, but very curvy, body.
Shayna
The rule here in the Northeast (as I was taught it anyway) is Easter to Labor Day —- so enjoy the pants!
jojo
Rules, as told to jojo:
white shoes: Memorial Day to Labor Day
white white pants: Easter to Labor Day*
winter white pants: Thanksgiving to Easter*
velvet: Thanksgiving to Valentine’s Day
*all bets are off if you’re in a tropical climate
Texan
Same- except white shoes are also Easter- Labor Day.
anonymous
how do you avoid the VPL with white pants? I would be so self-conscious, even if they were like doubly lined..
Eponine
White underwear, or if it’s not hot outside, Spanx or footless hose.
Kat
My $.02 — NUDE underwear, not white — and boyshorts, s’il vous plait, not a thong.
Full disclosure: MySkins is a sponsor — but if you have tricky-to-match skin coloring, check it out, because they specialize in 14 shades of nude. (I think it’s 14. I hope it’s 14. Hmmmn.)
Kimbo
I agree with what others have said: as long as the weather matches, you’re OK wearing white pants. I also think the material definitely matters. You could probably get away with white denim in warmer temperatures than white linen. Although, I’d say that if you’re questioning it, it’s best not to wear them.
HH
All you size 2-10’s you can ignore my request…
I am a size 12/14.. just my luck to inherit the family stomach… no butt… but a stomach. Anyway – I am looking for pants… I like Talbot’s heritage fit (hate the name) but haven’t ventured beyond of those… any suggestions. Oh by the way.. I’m in a town without a Nordstorm’s…. yep.. such places exist. So my selections include a Dillard’s, Macy’s, JC Penney’s, Coldwater Creek, Chico’s, Banana Republic and Talbots. Oh and I do have a TJ Maxx – THANK HEAVENS!
My firm is about to relax the hose required rule for the summer (yep such places exist) – I may just be in skirts all summer.
Shayna
Love skirts in the summer! I’m a fan of the Gap’s pants – good fit, excellent color staying power despite regular washing :-)
s-k-s
I don’t have specific recommendations, but make sure to try on all the different fits at places like BR, AT, Gap, etc. They usually have a variety of fits and one may work even if another is terrifying!
Also, consider tailoring. Buy something that fits in your biggest places and get it tailored down if necessary.
AnneCatherine
Martin fit pants at BR are pretty good I’ve found. But skirts are your friend and in the summer, if no hose are required, go for it!
k
BR skirts – for my money, I fit better in BR 14 skirts.
Also, check out the sale racks at BR. Sometimes the “skinny girls” leave us great bargains!
Talbots is also great for workwear. I shied away from it for years in fear it was too momish, but there are pieces that work in there.
HH
Thanks Ladies –
Yep.. love the Talbots and I am going to look at more skirts this year. Have a great weekend.
JennaPDX
question to all you ladies about scents: seems like a lot of people don’t like perfumes, especially those you can smell further than a few feet away, but what about body mists? i love my chance body mist and it is a light fragrance that people can smell as i pass by….is that bad? my friends wear it too and i like the way it smells when they walk by because it’s not too musky or strong but just a soft hint of a smell. would love to hear anyone’s thoughts!
Anonymous
Personally, I love perfume and wear it pretty much everyday. I was told when I was younger that someone who’s more than an arm’s length from you shouldn’t be able to smell it. Taking into consideration what people have said here, I’m starting to believe that arm’s length might be kind of far. I like a previous poster’s suggestion that only you and someone close enough to be going in for a hug should be able to smell it.
K
See I think the arm’s length is a good rule of thumb. I’m never really within an arms length of a coworker except on the elevators. Maybe our meetings are just less crowded than some of the posters below who have trouble with scents but I know a number of my coworkers wear perfume every day and there are only 2 people on whom I actually smell it (and I can assure you those 2 are dousing, not going for a light application :))
AIMS
People who do not like perfumes in the office also probably don’t appreciate body mists.
You have to be careful with body mists, too, because generally they’re typically made with cheaper & more synthetic materials that tend to irritate even folks (like me) who aren’t all that averse to a bit of perfume. I have no idea what chance is like (and would assume it’s better than most :) ), but those VS body splashes & Bath & Body mists are big migraine inducers for a lot of people I know.
AnneCatherine
My assistant, whom I sat next to at lunch for Admin. Day, was wearing a new (to her) VS scent and I (someone who always claims to love smelling perfume and cologne on others) almost had to leap up from the table. I said, “Oh, um, are you wearing a new perfume?” and when she replied “Yes, do you like it?” I just said, “It’s very strong.” I realized that what I like smelling on other people—Polo Black on men, for instance, or YSL Parisienne on women—is just a reflection of what I, personally, like, because if they are sporting a scent I hate, it makes me want to flee. I’m not sure what a body splash is but if it’s like those cucumber ones they sell with the deodorants, it’s probably less cloying and overpowering than VS ones tend to be, but, it could still probably get to someone. I guess I’m not sure where the line gets drawn, i.e., would fragranced deodorant, detergent, or hairspray be considered offensive? I have a weak sense of smell so probably what other people are smelling is 2 or 3 times stronger than what I am smelling, which may be why I (usually) like smelling perfume on people.
RR
I don’t want to smell anyone’s perfume/body mist/soap/lotion/etc. Ever. But, that said, I wouldn’t go ballistic about a tiny mist of body spray. I just think it’s so easy to get used to it and not realize how far the smell carries or how strong it is. Plus, some people are very sensitive to smells, so even a light body mist could be killer if they had to be around you all day. I just don’t get the need?
Eva
Exactly. The wearer can hardly tell they’re wearing the scent (if at all) after the initial spray. So really, what’s the point? Is it so that you smell nice to other people? If so, consider that some people will think you smell nice, others won’t like the scent, and others will become physically ill. Is that really worth it?
anon-ny
as a person who is moderately to highly sensitive to any scented lotions/sprays/perfumes, I would strongly suggest not wearing one to work at all. There are certain scents that others may not even smell strong to others that give me an instant migraine – and I mean a real migraine with nausea and light sensitivity quickly leading to puking. Please no perfumes or body mists in the office.
Shayna
Have to agree as another migraineur. Just because you find a smell attractive does not mean someone else does – and you should never leave a palpable scent in your wake as you walk past someone – that is way too much perfume/body spray/eau de toilette/etc. The same goes for men and aftershave/cologne, but I have not come across a man with this issue in a while – and men’s scents are not as cloyingly sweet.
If you are going to wear scent of some kind, use the smallest dab possible, and please, do not put it on your hands – your hands touch papers that go on my desk – and I’ve had to photocopy and then throw out papers that smelled disgustingly strongly of perfume or cigarettes.
Baby powder scented deoderant, light linen scented body cream are fine — it’s the really sweet/floral ones that do me in.
Lynette
I have a question for all the ladies here who dislike perfume in the office. Are you all equally against men who wear after shave or cologne to work?
If you have fragrance sensitivities, what do you do when you encounter people who are wearing fragrance when you are out and about outside of the office? Do you try to avoid fragrance in everything that you use, such as soaps, detergents, cosmetics etc.?
Not trying to cause any discourse, but just curious.
jojo
Yes, yes, and yes.
Leslie
I actually find men’s colognes to be worse than some perfumes. I think maybe because only older men seem to wear it anymore, and it’s always “old man smell” which is just… gag. TOO strong. The younger men I work with don’t wear the scents.
And yes, I do tend to avoid fragrance. The one exception is “fruity” smells like clean lemon or citrus. But any hint of a floral, or spice, or musk? OMG. Migraine.
Honestly, I rarely come into contact with people in public with strong scents on. And if I do, I just walk away. Or breathe through my mouth until I can get away from them. (The WORST is when they’re wearing so much you can TASTE it. Uck.)
North Shore
The worst is on airplanes. I’ve had to ask to move my seat because of getting stuck next to someone wearing perfume. I just can’t stand it — instant headache and it makes me feel like throwing up. I buy unscented everything.
Anon
I dislike perfume on women, and cologne on men. I only use products (shampoo, conditioner, leave-in conditioner, facewash etc) that are fragrance-free.
Anonymous
Fragrance free shampoo, conditioner, leave-in can be VERY hard to find. I have found exactly one from the drugstore…and that line doesn’t have a leave-in.
Can you recommend for me? I have atopic dermatitis and fragranced products often bring out the worst in my skin.
Lynnet
My mother has extreme fragrance sensitivities, and she likes for me to use Vanicream Free and Clear. She says that the hair spray is the only kind she’s found that is actually fragrance free. She also finds kiss my face products tolerable. It doesn’t look like either line has a leave-in, though.
http://www.psico.com/products/hair_care.cfm
http://www.kissmyface.com/haircarepages/haircarepage.html
Eponine
1. Yes
2. Depends. If it’s strong enough to bother me, I try to move away from them. If I can’t, it usually makes me feel ill and I’ll try to cut my interaction with them as short as possible. I also have a sort of involuntary reaction of revulsion, apparently – a few family members tend to wear strong, cheap perfume, and my mom says I go stiff as a board when they hug me or get close and I sort of wince, like you might do if someone who had really bad BO hugged you. If I can’t cut the interaction short, I’m usually honest and say ‘excuse me, but I’m not feeling very well, I need some fresh air’ and leave instantly. Of course, unless the person is a close colleague or friend, I wouldn’t actually say that her perfume is making me sick.
3. As much as possible. I definitely avoid artificial fragrances in anything that won’t be immediately washed out (e.g. shampoo). Actually good quality and plant-based scents don’t bother me – I guess my reaction is more to chemicals than to the scent itself. But I am easily overwhelmed by scents, to the extent that I’ve had to re-wash my hair after getting it done because the smell of hairspray made me feel sick and caused trouble breathing. Right now I own a lightly scented natural soap, and Narciso Rodriguez perfume that I sometimes lightly dab behind my ears (I’ve had the same bottle for nearly 3 years).
RC
yes, absolutely. Equal opportunity :)
Karen
Usually men’s scents don’t bother me as much as women’s, but I rarely smell them and would dislike them too.
I generally move away if I can when someone is wearing perfume. Fortunately it happens rarely in my job and day-to-day life. In one of my hobbies, there are certain events designed for women that include women from all over the country, some of whom are older, and there I often smell perfume. I therefore do not participate in the “women’s” events, but seek out events open to both men and women, mainly to avoid the perfume.
Yes, I go well out of my way to purchase unscented products.
Eponine
I think for many allergy/asthma sufferers and fragrance-sensitive people, we’re more likely to be irritated by something cheap than a good quality perfume. It seems that VS, Bath and Body Works or other cheap brands contain ingredients that give me instant headaches. So I’d prefer you wear nothing in the office, but a dab of something of good quality is probably the least likely to offend.
c
I like some perfume and I am pretty tolerant of others selections and while I have some pollen allergies and have gotten migraines, I do not think I have gotten any migraines from from perfumes. That said, sometimes just strolling by Bath & Bodyworks, I would feel my sinuses instantly congest and I would have to literally run away. My take on this is that people’s reactions to things are very individual, and just one ingredient might be horrible. I think if you are one of the migraine-getting people, you should probably politely inform your co-workers and ask them to refrain from scented products. Migraines are truly horrible, but not everyone gets them and no one can predict who among their co-workers might be susceptible unless you tell them.
1L in CA
I am on the hunt for a leather folio for interviews/work.
Is this too flashy? http://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3465324&cp=2446816.2019584&parentPage=family
Should I stick to something classic like this? http://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3581597&cp=2446816.2019584&parentPage=family
CFM
I like the second one better
Marla
Try Levenger, especially their sale selections. I have many of their products and have been very happy with them. Here’s one:
http://www.levenger.com/PAGETEMPLATES/PRODUCT/Product.asp?Params=Category=322-521|Level=2-3|PageID=1234
Denise
I wouldn’t think the first one is too flashy. Something like a portfolio would have to be pretty out of place to attract my negative notice in an interview. For example, a Hello Kitty Trapper Keeper might give me pause…
Bonnie
I like the first one better (in black). The second one is kind of boring and shows no style.
(the other) Dasha
How do you guys organize your clothes? Are work clothes separate from non-work clothes? Are they in “outfits”?
meg
I have everything together by type and then by color…so dresses together, pants together, jackets together, suits together, shirts (other than workout t’s) all together regardless of work or non, sorted by color. Jeans and sweaters folded on open shelves. I really like having tops by color – makes it easy to put things away and find the right piece.
Yes, my closet is HUGE to allow for this. When we moved in I got the best walk-in closet a girl could hope for – I’m very very lucky.
RR
This. My closet is tiny, so I purge often!
Anonymous
I organize by color too…seems a bit OCD, but I swear it makes finding things much faster.
Blonde Lawyer
I keep work clothes on one half of my closet, non work clothes on the other, and pieces that double (t-shirts that can go under suits) in the middle.
Shayna
Being single means I have full command of a walk in closet and three dressers/bureaus… yes it’s awesome.
I have drawers for sleeveless work shells, work short sleeve tops, work long sleeve shirts, non-work sleeveless tops, non-work short sleeve tops, and non-work long sleeve tops, as well as drawers for jeans and capris/shorts. In my closet I have shelves for sweaters (pretty much all of which are work appropriate), and I hang my pants, skirts, dresses, etc. – most of which are work appropriate with fancy dresses in their own area. My shoes in cubes on a wall in my closet, and they’re not really arranged by anything other than how I can fit as many as possible in the cubes…
Eponine
By type of clothing on hangers – skirts, shirts, jackets, dresses, suits. My shelves are organized both by type of clothing and occasion – bras/panties, short-sleeved shirts, long-sleeved shirts, sweaters, pajamas, pants, workout clothes. My closet is smallish and I guess I don’t have a ton of stuff either.
Delta Sierra
Not exactly what you asked, but a couple of years ago I threw out all my wire hangers and got a big $50 box of white plastic ones from Container Store. No more infuriating tangles, and the closet looks a little more spiffy.
(the other) Dasha
I have a hate-hate relationship with wire hangers. They get tossed immediately. I recently upgraded from plastic to all wood hangers (Ikea – they are cheap). Thankfully, I don’t have much clothes, because they take up a ton of space – plastic are much more practical. But I can’t live without the wood.
mm
I upgraded to Ikea’s wood hangers also, and I love how nice and organized everything looks now that it is hung uniformly. In addition to the Ikea hangers, I purchased wooden pants/ skirt hangers, which I ordered from somewhere online, and black Huggable Hangers (I think that’s what they’re called–my mother-in-law gave me a set and I really like them) for dresses and items that slip off the wood hangers. In terms of organization, I have a section of my closet for dresses, a section for tops/blouses, usually organized from sleeveless to long-sleeved, a section for jackets, a section for pants organized color, work on one side and casual/jeans on the other. I have a lot of shoes, so I have five white particle board shoe shelves (from Container Store) stacked together, and large lined baskets for seasonal items (i.e., winter scarves, hats, etc.), exercise wear, and handbags.
Delta Sierra
I love having real pant and skirt hangers, with clips. I bought a boatload of them online once, and still ask to keep them when I buy things displayed on them. I hang everything by the waist band, since the hems of pants have been out there flapping around in the dirty streets, and I’d rather have them away from other things.
I promise I don’t work for Organize.com, or have shares in them. But their closet stuff is good:
http://www.organize.com/crysskirhans.html for skirts and pants
http://www.organize.com/cryscutdresh.html for tank tops
http://www.organize.com/10hoschawa.html for scarves
http://www.organize.com/behawoho12.html belts, since I’m running out of places in the closet where I can tack in little nails to hold them.
Eponine
Just curious, what makes wood better than plastic? (Apart from not being slippery – I hang clothes that could slide off a hanger from a clip hanger instead.)
I find wire hangers most useful for traveling but otherwise don’t use them.
KN
Wood hangers just look better. You open your closet and it looks like the ones on TV, with all hangers matching and the clothes nicely spaced. Ikea sells wood hangers at 8 for $3.
Also, the thicker the hanger, the better for clothes with sleeves (especially ones that can stretch out) – so wood is better than the thin plastic ones.
Finally, if you are short on closet space, hold off on upgrading your hangers – wood hangers take up significantly more space.
Shayna
I did the same thing when I moved last year – I got all pretty plastic hangers with the indents so nothing slides off of them and hanging pants hangers so the pants hang straight down instead of being folded over (which takes up more space).
E
My suits, button-up shirts and blouses in one half of the wardrobe rail; my boyfriend’s suits and button-up shirts in the other half. Tops that double for work and non-work go with the non-work tops in bureau cubbyholes.
I wish I had more storage space. :(
Delta Sierra
Poor Mr Sierra’s clothes take up about 1/4 of the closet. He’s an engineer, therefore hasn’t worn a jacket in… hm, can’t remember that far back :)
Bonnie
Because I have a small closet, I invested in those slim velvetty hangers they show on infomercials (they’re cheaper at Bed, Bath, and Beyond). They don’t take up as much space as wood or plastic hangers and their texture keeps clothes from slipping.
Anon
Hi ladies,
I am reposting a message I posted a few days ago in the hopes of getting a few more reponses. In particular, I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has some expertise in the area of internet privacy/online stalking or harassment. Thanks so much, everyone.
I am wondering what sort of legal recourse, if any, I have against an ex-boyfriend who is harassing me/my husband over email. I dated this guy for 3 years and it ended very, very badly (as in, I had to call the police and have a restraining order against him). He was never physically violent but extremely emotionally abusive and threatening in other ways.
During the days leaving up to my marriage to my husband, this ex sent very nasty emails and texts to my husband about my sexual history. My husband knows all about me so none of this was new information.
I have not communicated with my ex in over 8 years. Just last week, he sent yet another email to my husband discussing intensely private information about me. He again reiterated that he slept with me (which is true, and is a very, very big stigma in my conservative community because the sex was premarital) and that I had plastic surgery (also true). He has also hinted to my husband that he has “proof” of my sexual history, as in a video of some sorts. I am terrified.
I am extremely worried that he will leak this information out to my family, my husband’s family, or even to colleagues and the wider public. I am a very hard working and successful lawyer who has developed a strong reputation over the years. I have aspirations of becoming a judge some day, and don’t want this idiot to ruin my reputation.
I would appreciate any advice on this issue. Thanks so much.
Corporate Tool
Your best bet is to consult a lawyer, in your state. I think that family law, or criminal law are probably the most effective, but you might want to visit a couple just in case. Also, by this, I don’t mean “talk to your friend who is a lawyer,” I mean, go, make an appointment, go to an office, and have a real discussion about what your legal options are, and the possible consequences.
Stalking and harassing is scary, but in many cases, other than a restraining order, can be very difficult to force a harassser to stop.
An important first step is to document each interaction, the date, time, what happened, and why it was threatening. This will be useful to present to a lawyer, the police, etc.
I know that this probably wasn’t the answer you wanted to hear, but best of luck.
CL
Wow. I’m not really sure what to tell you to do in this awful situation except maybe to warn you (although I’m sure you already recognize this) that a man who you haven’t contacted in 8 years who STILL hasn’t moved on with his life and behaves in such a manipulative manner could clearly be dangerous and unstable. If you feel threatened you should absolutely inform the police and save any texts, emails, etc. as evidence of his inappropriate behavior. You and your husband may also want to consider changing your email addresses so that he can’t contact you anymore. I don’t recommend responding to his emails by contacting your ex because that just reinforces his behavior by giving him what he wants–the satisfaction of making you unhappy.
zee
As I said before, contact a stalking professional. Usually they can calm the situation down enough that your stalker won’t follow through on the blackmail threats. They know how to interact with stalkers, and can give you the best advice. They also have detailed analysis systems where they can tailor an individual plan for you to get rid of your stalker. Unfortunately, there aren’t that many legal protections for stalkees, and that’s a big problem. https://www.gavindebecker.com/
Eponine
Can you afford to retain an attorney who specializes in stalking or harassment cases? Call your local bar association for a referral. You need the advice of an experienced attorney familiar with the laws in your jurisdiction.
PJB
This is interstate stalking. A family law or criminal defense attorney can’t help in this situation. You need to contact the F.B.I. or the U.S. Attorney’s office in your jurisdiction. Show them the e-mails. This fellow is committing a federal criminal offense. He is deranged and unstable (length of this stalking is telling), and therefore dangerous.
I am a federal criminal defense attorney and have represented this type before. I don’t want to unnerve you, but you should contact the appropriate authorities Monday morning. Good luck to you!
JAS
I am a law student. I work in my school clinic and assist domestic violence sufferers in obtaining restraining orders against their abusers. For what it’s worth, in my state, it is a violation of a retraining order to try to contact the victim through a third party, which is what your ex is doing by contacting your husband. Also, I agree with the people above who suggest contacting a stalking professional (what does it say about our society that there is such a profession?!) and/or a lawyer. Good luck and stay safe!
Marla
I agree that you should act immediately, because there are very real concerns for your safety.
As far as the reputational issues, I am experiencing a similar situation, albeit with a mentally ill former friend. I know what you are going through, feeling powerless and like someone with real mental issues has the power to destroy you and there’s nothing you can do about it. The best thing for me has been to go through the what ifs. So what if this came out? First, the things he would say about you/show about you are 8 or more years old. You were a different person then, you’ve learned lessons, and he’s (with all due respect for a real mental illness here) nuts. You’ve done things you’re not proud of, but you can’t change the past. Believe me when I say you aren’t alone in going through this.
Anon
Thanks all for the very helpful comments. One problem is that he sends emails under various pseudonyms, so actually linking the emails to him will be very difficult. Unfortunately, I deleted all of the text messages he sent me from several years ago, but I have kept all of his emails to both me/my husband. I will seriously consider contacting the police and a lawyer, as several of you have recommended.
PBJ – my understanding of interstate stalking is that it must involve a person who actually physically travels to my area in an attempt to injure or harrass. My ex lives across the country now and is stalking me from afar. Would it still apply?
Marla — thank you for reminding me that I am not alone. I am a grown woman and find it sad that I feel powerless even after all of these years. I wish you the best of luck as well.
Thanks all.
NYC
Based on corporette chatter, I ordered some tops from the Lands End Canvas line and am very happy with the quality and styling. I think lands end has good quality clothes for reasonably prices and am SO happy they’ve updated the fit with the canvas line. Got some weekend basics and a few things that are work appropriate. The Women’s Tuck Front Shell is pretty much exactly what I was looking for as a basic white top for summer that will go under blazers and cardigans. I might have it taken in a little bit. The Heritage Stripe Oxford Shirt is so adorable (ordered a size up, as the site recommended), but not anywhere near formal enough for my office. Other than noted exceptions, sizing is similar to ann taylor, I’d say. I’m an 8/10 and ordered 8/M in all the tops, except for the Oxford which recommended going up (got a 10).
Now for my question, has anyone found a graceful way to get out of an SUV cab, in a skirt and heels, when you have to slide all the way across with a partner standing at the door? It’s just plain awkward.
meg
Thanks so much for the fit report – I had been wondering how their sizing worked!
No tips on the SUV problem…scoot while holding down on your skirt so it doesn’t ride up?
Blonde Lawyer
Ugh, I hate getting and out of SUV’s in a skirt, period. In my region, pants suits are fine and that is what I wear when I have to travel with the partner of my firm who drives a giant SUV. There is NO way to keep your legs together getting in and out, even from the passenger side door and once I do get in my skirt ends up bunched under my but from trying to jump into the damn vehicle. So annoying. Pants only lol.
Shayna
I had issues getting into an SUV w/ a skirt last week… getting out I tend to hold one hand on the skirt, and slide as gracefully as possible to the edge and then, well, sort of hop out.
SUCL 3L
I think I read something once about the “lady-like” way to get out of a car. I think the key basically was to keep your knees together, pivot your body towards the door, swing your legs in unison out the door, plant them on the ground, and stand up.
K
Yep. Keep you knees together and scoot sideways/butt first towards the door. When you get to the edge, keep the knees together and swing your legs out the door. Then yes, you kind of have to hop or slide unless there are running boards or you have very long legs…
jcb
this is what I do in my SUV – lots of practice – just keep your knees/calves together, turn completely to the side and extend both legs down, then just slide/hop out. Pretty easy when you get the hang of it.
k
I just takes practice to remember to keep your knees together and scoot.
KLo
SUCL 3L is correct!
NYC
I love this site! Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses. I will practice. It was particularly awkward in this situation since I was juggling a redwell of papers and paying the cabbie all the while trying to be quick about getting out of the car…
Nancy P
Ahh, the glamorous life of the associate, yes? I’ve been there.
NYC
Ha, totally glamorous.
Eponine
Often a guy wants to hold the door for you, so you get in first and have to scoot, and then he’s on the curb side and you have to scoot across again to get back out. If I’m wearing a skirt, I just say “actually do you mind getting in first? It’s easier for me to get in an out on the curb side in this skirt.” Guys are happy to oblige.
SF Bay Associate
I placed an order with Canvas during F&F and yesterday received a *handwritten* note thanking me for my order and commenting that the they hoped I liked the jeans I ordered. The note included an email address apparently to a real person at canvas if I should have any questions or feedback. I couldn’t believe it was handwritten, but after a good 5-10 minutes of examination, I think it is. Amazing. I hope the clothes fit because wow, I want to shop more with Canvas.
eem
yes, I got one of these too. Definitely handwritten.
E
I have shopped at Lands End for many years and generally have been overwhelmingly pleased with their customer service. When you call them with a problem, they are so nice about it, and will help you with anything. I swear I don’t shill for them, but I really like their quality and their customer service culture. Makes me want to support their company
TwoL
I’ll be working for a judge this summer. How many suits should I own? Should I stick to the very basic suits? Thanks for the advice!
Clerky
I say 4 or 5 suits in basic colors – black/navy, gray, brown, etc. If your chambers is like most, you’ll wear a suit every single day and it gets very tiresome if you have anything less than 4 suits. Don’t break the bank though — Macys has lots of Tahari suits on sale for $100 – $150, or try Marshalls/TJ Maxx.
When I clerked, I had about 7 suits and even with that many, it got extremely boring to wear the same thing over and over again. Try to mix it up with different shells/shirts underneath.
A.
Assuming that you are still in school and this is an internship, I think Clerky’s suggestion is way more than you will need. I am currently clerking for a federal judge, and while we have to be in suits while in court (which is most days), interns, who won’t sit at the desk below the judge but off to the side, aren’t required to be as formal. (You are unpaid, you shouldn’t need to invest in a full business wardrobe for a summer!) Also, a neutral blazer that can be thrown over lots of outfits is great in a pinch — just keep it in the office.
When in doubt, call the chambers and ask one of the current clerks. Remember, we were in your shoes not that long ago and will be happy to explain how a particular chamber dresses.
guest
I agree with this suggestion. I interned for a federal judge last summer and had 3 skirt suits (one gray, one black, one navy blue). It was plenty. I wore a suit every day, but unless I was actually in court I took the jacket off. I’d say just make sure you have enough tops and a couple of cardigans to change up your look. You definitely don’t need to spend a huge amount of money on a ton of different suits. I agree on the skirt/pant options for the same suit. That’s one thing I wish I’d had — too bad my judge’s rule was skirts only!
SUCL 3L
Also, try to get suits that have skirt and pant options. Helps mix things up a bit for less money.
Another A
Seconding the suggestion to speak to current clerks. In the chambers where I worked as an intern it was expected that I be in a full suit every day I was in there. My judge split summers between two interns, which allowed both of us to make a little money that summer as research assistants and meant that I did not need more than three days worth of suits. I think that I had four and it got pretty boring, clothes wise, by August. Enjoy it though, I learned a ton, and I gained a lot of confidence in my “real world” legal analysis abilities.
AIMS
TwoL — I don’t think you actually need 4-5 suits. Yes, if you have 4-5 it’s nicer & easier, but you can easily get away with 2-3, and then get some mix& match basic options to mix it up. Just make sure you get your clothes in easy to mix pieces — and that means, yes, you should absolutely stick to very basic suits (this will also serve you better in the long run). And I second the idea of getting matching pants AND skirt whenever possible.
Also, what kind of court is it?? Not all chambers require a suit every day. Many state courts have fairly relaxed dresscodes, esp. in summer.
Lastly, when shopping be cognizant of the fabric — a heavy black wool suit will be torture in July, so get something versatile.
TwoL
Thanks for all of the advice, everyone! I have two “interview” suits, and a couple of less formal suits and dresses that I felt comfortable wearing at a state department internship last summer. It is a bankruptcy judge and I really hope to get a bankruptcy clerkship after graduation, so I want to make the best impression possible. I know a couple of the new clerks and am already emailing with the clerk I’ll be helping this summer, so I may ask her how many suits I need.
AnneCatherine
I interned for a Federal Judge (then clerked, but I’m assuming you’re interning this summer?). I agree, for an intern, two to three suits will be fine. Also, bring a black blazer to hang on your chair in case you get called into court on a day you were, e.g., a dress with a cardigan. I had two differently-cut black pant suits, and a navy skirt suit. It’s a pretty conservative arena, even in my non-conservative town.
associate
So… my firm is having a “beach retreat” for the attorneys and their families. I dread the idea of appearing in front of co-workers in swim suits. However, I’m not quite sure how to get through an entire weekend without pulling one out. Suggestions? Should I just bite the bullet and enjoy the beach and my swim suit. For the record, I’m generally not embarrased about my body in a swim suit, but the thought of prancing around the beach in front of coworkers gives me the heebie-jeebies.
AIMS
Get a solid, conservative swimsuit (maybe one piece — they’re in now again); get a cute cover-up, somewhat on the longish side . . . . and spend your beach time mostly in both.
Nancy P
You never know how you’ll feel once you’re there, so definitely bring a suit (or two). My federal judge used to have an annual pool party, and the one time I went it was 90+ degrees and humid. I was in that pool faster than you can say “court adjourned.”
MelD
I’d get a nice one piece or tankini (for those of us with long torsos on whom one pieces are laughably inappropriate) and then wear a coverup that allows you to be fairly active. I prefer to wear board shorts and a top instead of a dress since you can’t really do that much in a sarong or dress cover up. It’s also a little more acceptable to go in the water with board shorts if you really don’t want to display as much in front of your coworkers.
DLS
I second the conservative swimsuit / coverup idea. As someone who has been invited to several professional events at beach houses / lake houses, you need to come prepared. I always wear a one-piece swimsuit (whereas if I were to go to the beach or the lake with my friends or my husband, I would wear a bikini) under a 3/4 or long-sleeved linen caftan-type coverup that goes to my knees. Make sure that the bathing suit is not too low-cut on top or too high-cut on the bottom and that if you are moving around, the suit stays in place. Also, I would recommend sandals other than typical beach flip-flops. I based this on carefully watching female partners at these events. Assuming there is a decent place to change, you may want to wear a nice summer dress or skirt or even linen pants and bring a bathing suit/cover-up in your bag. The first time I was invited to a beach event, I ended up wearing a summery yet relatively conservative dress and carrying my bathing suit in my bag, figuring that no one else would be wearing a bathing suit. I was wrong and quickly changed.
LP
My firm had a beach retreat too. While there were a few hours spent on the beach, and some dared to show up in swim suits, most of us did alternative, non-swimsuit related activities — golf, riding mopeds, hiking, tennis — and when on the beach, tended to play football/soccer/frisbee. I would show up to the beach in casual shorts/t-shirt/polo with a swimsuit on underneath, but only strip down to the suit if the vast majority of people are doing so and it would look awkward if you did not. A couple associates who wanted to get some sun/take a swim also took a walk down the beach and only stripped down once a sufficient distance from the partners.
Eva
I believe this blog (or wsj’s Juggle, or maybe both) did an entire post about this topic maybe 6-12 months ago. If someone can dig it up, you might find that helpful!
martha
ugh, who thought this was a good idea? what you need is a black tank suit and chic long sarong to go over it. might also think about an attention grabbing hat to ostensibly give sun protection but also to draw the eye UP.
E
Look at Lands End. They have lovely suits with all sorts of support and coverups that match (I personally would be horrified to be in public without an underwire bra, so the fact that many of thier swim suits have underwire is a Godsend!)
A.
Athleta has some good pieces – swimsuit and cover-up, as well as casual lightweight pants, tunics, dresses, etc. that might work very well for this occasion. I really like Athleta because the pieces are built for function, not just form, but they don’t look frumpy or matronly at all. The stuff I have from there is holding up really well and they have a wide range of sizes.
K
Agreed. I got a tankini there last summer, and I love it. It fits perfectly and looks adorably retro (I got the miniskirt bottom).
Shayna
Why oh why do they do these… almost as bad as the drunk fest Tony and Tina’s wedding I had to go to my first year working…
I would bring a conservative suit – if a one piece is too obnoxious to contemplate (and I agree – it’s annoying to have to get a wet swimsuit on and off to use the rest room), try a demure tankini.
I would bring drawstring capris or a caftan that can double as chic beachwear but not look totally out of place off the beach. I would wear flat sandals that won’t look ridiculous on the beach though –
Being overdressed on the firm retreat can be as bad as being underdressed in the office.
CJ in CA
I agree these events are ill advised!
And I agree about a tankini.
I think drawstring linen pants can also look good over a swimsuit as a cover up if you want to show less leg.
But, not to get too gross- I’m a former lifeguard. You do not have to take your swimsuit off to go to the bathroom. I’ll call the move the “pull aside.” And wash your hands. Teach your daughters, because it’s better to get in and out of the bathroom quick than to pee in the pool!
Chicago K
Ha, former competitive swimmer here and couldn’t agree more!
1L
I’m on the hunt for a leather folio for interviews/work.
Is this one too flashy? http://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3465324&cp=2446816.2019584&parentPage=family
Should I stick to something classic like this? http://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3581597&cp=2446816.2019584&parentPage=family
s-k-s
I don’t think the first one is too flashy, but if you are going to open/close it during the interview, think of the “snap” factor.
Somewhat related – has anyone ever actually used those during an interview? I used to religiously carry them around, but have yet to really figure out the point of them. I’ve never seen an interviewee pop it open and take notes down during an interview, for example. Just wondering what their real point is ….
Lola
I agree with s-k-s. I think the point of these is to have something in your hands so you don’t fidget. You’re adult enough not to fidget. Are you really going to take notes in an interview? No. Stick a notepad in your tote, and write down some details immediately afterward so you don’t forget.
anonymous
i thought the point of these was to have a place to keep extra resumes, transcrip[ts, writing samples, etc, in case an interviewer wants one.
Eponine
I use them at work, but I think they’d be useful during an interview to hold your resume, writing sample, etc. Papers can get folded or wrinkled if you carry them in a folder; a leather folio is much sturdier.
Shayna
I would go with the second – less likely to feel dated the next time you’re interviewing.
I always take one with me to hold extra resume copies, etc., and I have taken notes – I’m in finance so knowing the numbers that a compnay is working with (revenue, assets, investments, etc.) is sometimes a key part of whether I want to work with them – and are important details for the next interview (usually there are at least three to four people interviewing you so if you can sound more intelligent by person two, its good).
When I have interviewed people they have also used notepads/folios to take notes – it’s not weird – you shouldn’t scribble away the whole time, but jotting down the important facts is fine – and makes you seem that much more serious about the endeavor.
Denise
My partner purposely shows up at interviews without a copy of the candidate’s resume to see if he/she came prepared with an extra. And we also expect candidates to bring writing or other samples of their work. If someone showed up with nothing but her handbag, I would wonder if she was serious about the position.
I’m a big note-taker myself, so I also expect candidates to take notes during the interview. I have worked with artists who can only concentrate if they draw or doodle. The first time this happened, I was furious that the guy wasn’t paying attention to what I was saying, but it turned out that doodling was his way of taking notes.
1L
I use them to put resumes/references in, and when I prepping pre-interview I like to write notes/questions about the company/interviewer on the writing pad.
1L NYC
Somewhat related, I am in the market for one of these — is it really tacky to have one with my school crest on it?
Eponine
I wouldn’t find that tacky at all.
anonymous
no, I’d say 90% of my class had one of these, to the point where we all walked around during 2L interview season looking like clones in our black suits and school crest leather portfolios…
Shayna
No, but having one with a former employer’s logo is
skl
I usually take it on interviews as a way to carry extra resumes transcripts. Plus I have notes written on the notepad inside. The notes include info about the firm I am interviewing with, key phrases I want to make sure I say, etc. Its fine for me to glance at in the lobby while waiting, and makes me feel more secure to have things written down.
Mine is plain black with my initials embossed in gold on the lower right hand corner. It was a gift from a former boss (at an internship) and probably one of the most practical gifts I have every received!
A
Any other 3Ls out there? I can see the finish line and studying is KILLING me. Two more exams and then a few weeks of freedom before bar prep begins.
SUCL 3L
AMEN!! Countdown is 22 days!
KateSouth
I am dyyying! My motivation is out the door. Only 3 more days with actual classes, then finals!
LMo
Present…and by that, I mean completely checked out. :)
SW
Me too! Two papers, one exam, then freedom!
3L
Same here! Checked out sometime during 2L probably, but May 5th is my last exam. Will have 2 wks before bar review begins :)
KZ
yep! I have no motivation. None. I know I have finals starting in a week and yet… I just don’t care. I didn’t really have senioritis in college, but this is making up for it in the worst way.
That being said, I’m super excited about the summer (Well, June, at least, before studying gets super intense)! Sure, we have barbri and have study for the bar exam, but this is the first summer I haven’t hard to work in years upon years, and I plan on spending my afternoons after barbri outside in the sun remembering what it’s like to be truly warm. Studying can wait until the evening.
SUCL 3L
KZ, I like the way you think. :)
Law-Less
1 paper, 2 exams, and 17 days before graduation!!!! I can see the light at the end of the tunnel……
Anonymous
3 exams down, one take-home and a paper to go…and I have totally run out of steam.
I agree that studying this year as a 3L was particularly difficult.
Woman of Color
Graduation is around the corner. The motivation to study is so not there (Totally laughing at my caring too much 1L self). BarBri classes for us start before graduation (I know, absolutely ridiculous). Just hang on everyone for a few more weeks. We’re almost there! Now just have to get through the bar with my little friend in my belly.
LMo
(Note to self – I have zero right to complain about the bar if other people have a good attitude about taking it while pregnant.)
Stud! Congrats and good luck. :)
divaliscious11
I took 2 bar exams while pregnant… Ask to be placed in a room close to the rest room….. depending on how far along you are, this could be a God-send!
anon
You may want to check out the chair situation in your jurisdiction to see if you can bring a pillow or something else in with you. Many people I talked to who took the bar with me complained of fairly severe back pain to the point of it hindering their performance, including a woman who was pregnant her first time and had to retake.
Woman of Color
Thank you all for the concern and suggestions. I will be taking two bars (NY/NJ), and the bathroom/back situation are really pressing on my mind right now. Especially since I have had back problems pre-pregnancy. By the time the bar starts, I will be about 5.5, and I just hope that its not one of those grade school desks that you have to squeeze into the cut out section. On the other hand, I am excited that the baby will not be here yet, as one of my good girlfriends just gave birth, and I have no idea how she is planning on studying with a screaming child in the background. Always counting life’s blessings . . . .
Lucy
If you take the NY bar & you’re in the city, you’re taking the bar at Javits center — that means rickety metal chairs. But the bar exam that’s given in Brooklyn is at a hotel (Marriot, I think) — it is much more comfortable. In NJ you are assigned a center, I believe; it is based on when you register. My advice is to call ahead & around and see if you can be switched (e.g., if you can switch to BK from Manhattan for a cushier seat, do it).
Good luck with both your ventures :)
bizzy
Good luck to you! And you are right: studying with a baby on the inside is much easier than studying when it’s out. As for rickety chairs – I’d contact to the bar examiners’ office if I were you, to see if you can get some kind of accommodation. I took the LSAT 6 months pregnant with my third child – already pretty big. By looking into it in advance, and providing a letter from my ob/gyn, I got a (moderately) comfortable chair that was not attached to the floor or the table. Very much worth it.
45
I posted this last week, but I think I posted too late to get a response. Any of you gals out there with families have second homes? Do you enjoy them, or do you think they are a burden? Do you think the money is well spent?
Eva
My parents and my boyfriend’s parents both have second homes. I LOVE going to the second homes (especially the beach one two hours away during summer weekends), but it is wildly expensive for them. Hard for me to say whether it would be worth it for you, but I do think they are wonderful getaways – especially if you live in a city. (Getting out of NYC and to beautiful beach home with heated pool and garden oasis – simply AMAZING!)
K
I’m not even a first-time home buyer yet but my parents purchased a second home 2 hours from our primary residence when I was 7 years old and I could talk for hours about how great it was for our family (and honestly, I think for my parents sanity and marriage as well).
It was in the mountains about 10 minutes from a small ski resort and near hiking and a lake and there was also a pool at the resort. We used to spend almost every weekend there during winter and then roughly every other weekend the rest of the year. My mom was a teacher so she would also take us up for a week or two at a time during the summer or spring break to save money on vacations (which then meant the vacations we did go on were awesome). We didn’t have a TV or internet up there until recently so it was a really good chance to relax and spend time together as a family. It was also close enough that my CPA dad could work Saturday during tax season and then drive up to have dinner/go nightskiing with us Saturday nights and relax on Sunday before heading home. There were times as a kid that I hated that it meant we couldn’t play that many sports, etc. at home because we’d be gone on weekends and certainly as a teenager it can be rough to be stuck with the fam all weekend but looking back, I’m really glad my parents put their foot down. My siblings and I did have more leeway in high school to stay home for football games and then our Saturday sports before heading up either by ourselves or with a parent.
It’s definitely something you need to be committed to and you need to really evaluate how far of a drive you’re willing to make regularly so it doesn’t go unused but it was an amazing thing for our family.
AIMS
Don’t currently have one (alas) but use the parents’, and would say that it really depends, in my limited experience.
Where would it be (e.g., country house vs place somewhere warm/cold)? Do you know people in the area (so they can house-keep when something comes up, etc.)? How often do you realistically think you’ll go there ?
I think that if you live some place urban and can afford to have a country house two hours away or less, it can be amazing. Your kids will get fresh air, some country experience, you can go there frequently & easily on the weekends & holidays, take summer breaks there, build lots of family traditions & memories, etc. But in my experience (limited as it is) anything further than 2 hours out can become a drag. Even 30 min extra can make a difference when you’re driving 2 hours to begin with. Also, if you live somewhere relatively suburban (e.g., long island) having a house, say, in upstate ny doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
A place to ski/swim in the winter is an entirely different concept. I don’t think it’s worth it for most people. You’ll just feel like you constantly have to go there to make it worthwhile & it becomes more of a drag than is worth the trouble.
Dont know if that’s helpful, but since no one else (at this point) volunteered to answer, thought i’d share my small little bit of experience.
rosie
my parents have a second home and i adore it. it has been great to have a “home away from home” and since me and my sisters grew up spending every summer there we have great “summer” friends who have grown to be some of the closest people in our lives.
however – my dad is incredibly successuful and makes a great income but it is a huge money and time suck for my parents (they also have a boat – which is a money pit all its own). you are basically maintaining two homes and paying taxes on two homes and everything that goes along with that. when we were younger we took “real” vacactions very sporadically since the second home was so expensive. my mom used to always say that we could take 3 exotic vacations per year and it would still be less than a year’s worth of costs of owning the second home. its a lifestyle decision.
A.
This is something we’ve thought about, but given how much maintenance our first home requires, I can’t imagine trying to maintain two. Also, people we know who have second homes feel an obligation to be at the second home when they have time off – after all, they are putting all that money into it – and therefore sometimes don’t travel to other places much. We have some Wyndham Vacation Resorts points we bought on eBay (much, much cheaper than buying them through Wyndham) and they enable us to go almost anywhere we want to go. We also don’t have to pay property taxes or maintenance costs on another home. I honestly don’t see sinking a lot of money into something you’re not going to be living in, or even staying in a substantial amount of time. From what I understand, the tax advantages rarely offset the ownership costs of a second home.
anonymous
what are the tax advantages of owning a second home? investment deductions of some sort?
A.
I believe you can deduct mortgage interest on a second-home mortgage the same way you can with your first home. I know some people who have paid off their first home sometimes buy a second home for the mortgage-interest deduction. If you rent it out, there are also deductions if you set up a business. But I am not an accountant, so I am not sure what the total advantages are. I just know our accountant told us that every year she has clients who buy second homes as an investment, and within a few years, most decide it’s not worth it and sell them.
Shayna
I am an accountant —
Can deduct mortgage interest, and some people include them in their estate planning (the second home itself isn’t a tax advantage but you can use tax planning to incorporate it into a family limited partnership if you plan to leave it to your children, etc. with minimum fuss).
Odds are you aren’t going to rent it out enough to qualify for major losses on the repairs/maintenance on your taxes – if you buy a second home, making money absolutely should NOT be a motive – although yes, it is possible that like all real estate purchases it will appreciate (although unlike your primary home you will not be able to exclude the capital gain from your taxes).
anonymous
can you explain the estate planning point a bit more? thanks.
Shayna
When it comes to leaving property to your heirs it can be complicated to split between multiple parties – a family limited investment partnership among other inheritance options can place the property(s) in a trust/partnership that is then owned by you and by the various heirs – this way the property tax bills etc don’t have to be in 10 people’s names, just the FLIP’s which will then generate K-1s to go on personal returns if needed. It can reduce estate taxes because even though as managing partner you retain control of the parternship’s assets, you’re only taxed for the value of your ownership percentage in the gross estate calc…. talk to your tax advisor, since these are advantages that you might be able to take care of, but there are A LOT of considerations!
anonymous
shayna, wouldn’t the transfer to the flp be considered a gift to each of the family members? and theoretically gift and estate tax is the same, at least for federal purposes? like if you use your gift tax exclusion now then it reduces your fed estate tax exclusion later? i’m trying to remember back from my tax class in law school…
Shayna
Like I said, consult your tax advisor, but generally speaking you can do the transfer gradually to take advantage of annual exclusions, among other options (I really hesitate to provide advice without knowing your situation, just know that consultinig a tax advisor prior to purchase if you’re interested in estate planning is your best bet)
DJ
I’m totally curious about your Wyndham Vacation Resorts points. Sounds awesome. How did you do that and what does it allow you to do? Thanks :)
A.
Wyndham bought up a whole bunch of properties that used to sell timeshares (eek, a dirty word!) and basically converted the deeded timeshare properties into bundles of “points” that you then use to reserve a “unit” at a resort for a given period of time – ranging from 3 to 7 days. These banks of points are deeded, so they can be resold on the secondary market by the owners. Last year, we got on eBay and bought several banks of points. We have points at three “home resorts” – in Colorado, Arizona and Las Vegas – but the way Wyndham has their reservation system set up, all that really shows up is how many points you have, and when you go to make a reservation, it shows how many points you need to reserve a particular unit. We also bought a traditional timeshare week at a resort in Hawaii, which we can use every other year (odd years). We pay a yearly “maintenance fee” on each bank of points and this year, we had to pay a “special assessment” on the Hawaii property. We were careful when we bought to pick contracts that had low maintenance fees – we pay about $1,000 a year for all of our properties together, and for that we can stay about three weeks in any of the Wyndham properties we want across the U.S. The advantage of these properties is the units – they are huge. Last year we stayed at our home resort in CO and got a two-bedroom, two-bath unit with a kitchen and an in-unit hot tub and washer/dryer. My parents stayed with us for part of the week and we would hardly have known they were there, the unit was so big. Our unit in Hawaii, which we used for an anniversary trip last year, was basically a house. It would have cost us at least $1,200 to rent a comparable place in the same area, from what I could figure. It’s a totally different experience than staying in a hotel for a week because you can make your own meals, do your own laundry, etc. I know that doesn’t seem like a vacation to some, but I like cooking and I hate wearing dirty clothes, so to me it’s great. The resorts themselves also have good amenities – pools, gyms, typical resort activities.
Some people use their units every year and some people rent them out, which is allowed. I was interested in doing this because my parents had a timeshare when I was a kid and we used it all the time. However, the very worst thing anyone can do is buy a timeshare or points from a resort, or directly through Wyndham. Our timeshare week in Hawaii had originally been sold for $44,000 according to the paperwork we got – we bought it on eBay for $1,000. Our points bank based in CO was originally $30,000 – we bought it for $275. On eBay, these contracts sell for pennies on the dollar of what they originally cost. You generally have to pay transfer and paperwork fees but they aren’t exorbitant, if you buy through the right sellers. We invested very little cash in these – less than $2,000 for all four contracts – and so far it’s been totally worth it for us. We feel obligated to use the points so it’s kind of forced us to schedule vacations – but we aren’t locked into going one place over and over.
There are a few things I tell people to remember:
– These vacation points are not investments or really even assets – you will not sell them for more than you paid, no matter how little that was, and rarely do people do enough renting-out to make money, it usually is just enough to cover the annual maintenance fee. Don’t buy them to rent them out – buy them to use for your own vacations.
– It’s not a good thing for people who have to travel last-minute because usually, to get good units, you have to reserve some time in advance.
– Read contracts carefully – they are not uniform. One contract of 128,000 points can carry a maintenance fee of $900 a year and another 128,000 points contract will carry a fee of $300. You want the highest number of points for the lowest maintenance fee possible. On eBay, you can wait until the right contract comes along, which is what we did for our Hawaii property – I waited a year for the right contract, with the right fee, at the right resort, to come along.
– If you’re buying on eBay, research the seller carefully. Some are better than others.
– I learned most of what I know at http://www.tug2.net/, which has a very active bulletin board. There are timeshare people who will help you, for free, figure out what kind of contracts you want and give you buying and negotiating tips. There is a ton of info on there about different resorts (some are better than others – some older ones need updating badly and are not good choices if you’re looking to buy a contract). There’s also a lot of info about trading out traditional timeshare weeks through organizations like RCI, which I honestly don’t know much about as we haven’t had cause to do that yet.
Our Vacation Club points and timeshare week are going to mean lots of great vacations for us in years to come – beach, ski, mountains, etc. However, they are properties and as long as you own the contract, you’re responsible for the maintenance fees, which some people don’t like. And selling can be difficult, although the secondary market is pretty robust and if you didn’t pay much to begin with, you don’t have to ask much when you go to sell. There are some more pitfalls and advantages I can’t get into here – but I researched all of this for about two years before we bought our first contract, and I feel pretty confident about what we did and how we structured our ownership. Hope this too-long post helps :)
DJ
This is AMAZING. Thank you! We are taking our delayed honeymoon to Hawaii this fall. It sounds like it would be too last minute to do something like this, but we’re actually looking into renting something similar to what you describe (vacation condos or vacation homes). This is definitely something I’ll look into for future vacations though, it sounds like perfect for our “style” of vacationing.
Shayna
Thanks – I’ve always wondered about these but never found someone with enough knowledge to be helpful (and enough crediblity to be trustworthy — I have major trust issues with sales people!)
Karen
What a thoughtful, helpful post! I wasn’t even in the market for a timeshare but I just saved this to my computer so I can refer to it if and when that becomes a priority. Thanks for taking the time!
Chicago K
Thank you! I know a lot of people at work who do the “points” vacation rentals, but never really knew too much about them. I will definately check out eBay when I am ready to dive into this!
K
@45: Yes, we bought a cabin/second home last summer. Love it, but sometimes I think all I’ve done is bought another place to do housework. But seriously, DH and I thought it was a great investment both financially and emotionally for our family. It’s about 1.5 hours from our home and we try to go up every weekend. It is a godsend in summer to escape the heat.
Also, thanks to everyone for their comments/suggestions on the tan cotton suit yesterday. Still haven’t decided what I’m ordering….
Shayna
I’m a single home owner, so the thought of a second home is just more money/time/etc. than I’m interested in investing in one place right now – but my aunt bought a beach house about two hours from her, and three hours from where I live when I was in high school, and for the several years between then and when she passed away in 2008 it was this great retreat/oasis by the beach that she went to every weekend, and my family (in various configurations) spent a lot of time – so soothing. Another aunt and uncle had a boat that was their second home, and they loved it – but the acronym BOAT – Break Out Another Thousand is very true! They are not travellers so they loved hopping in the car and driving an hour to be on the water.
Louise
One of my closest girlfriends, whose parents own a mountain cabin, married a man whose parents also own a cabin only 5 miles from her family’s. I used to be jealous that she had not one, but two vacation homes to use.
Her kids are completely sick of those cabins and spending the summer in the same area every year. They want to travel and see new places, but because the families are so financially and emotionally invested in the second homes, they spend every. single. holiday. there.
For some folks, this tradition brings stability, long-term friends, and a consistent set of memories. For others, it brings stagnation and boredom.
As an alternative, consider purchasing a high-end motorhome and traveling to many different places that way. Top of the line RVs are full of luxuries like granite counters and gorgeous woodwork, and the view can be different every vacation. Just a thought!
(Full disclosure: My husband and I live full-time in our motorhome, and wouldn’t trade it for any single brick-and-mortar home.
Kate
My parents bought a second home about 4 hours from the family home–they definitely enjoy it. A property management company maintains and they rent it out when they aren’t using it–if they rent it out for one week per month of the on season it pretty much covers the cost of property management. It’s a very nice place to visit.
That said, my parents are in terrible financial shape and I’m sure that the vacation house causes more stress than it relieves. They bought it as an “investment” in 2006 with an interest-only mortgage and almost no deposit–they thought renting it out would cover most of the cost of the mortgage and that the home would gain value because the area is so nice. I don’t have to tell you how badly that went.
Still, if they weren’t broke people with piles of debt and an unsteady income the second house would totally be worth it.
CJ in CA
I can’t reply to your actual questions, but everyone I know who owns a second home somehow “shares” it. Either they own it outright, but their siblings/parents/ grown kids also use it frequently with permission, or siblings or two couples or cousins or whatever share financial ownership and benefits. It does mean a lot of negotiation, but then you don’t feel like you need to go EVERY weekend to make it worth it, and there’s someone to share the maintenance with. If you have family or friends close by it’s something to think about.
Delta Sierra
I live in 92651, and there are lots of second homes in my neighbourhood. Most of their owners live in Los Angeles, Palm Springs and Las Vegas. And we seldom see them. So, think seriously about how often you’re really likely to make the drive there.
Denise
Do you enjoy yard work and home repair? Do you tend to return to familiar places again and again, never getting bored with them?
Or do you prefer your time off to be mostly “play time,” and love to explore new places and cultures?
Consider your family’s time off style. Seriously think about whether a second home is a better fit than, say, using the money for weekend getaways and vacation every year to a different place. Only you can know what you’ll like.
housecounsel
Gap Long and Lean jeans fit beautifully.
With regard to the second home, we don’t have one but know a few families who do. The problem seems to be that it’s hard to get away on weekends if the kids are in activities close to home. The idea is lovely, but I just don’t see being able to use a second home much at the stage our kids are in now. We hope to buy a city pied-a-terre someday, to enjoy all the city has to offer, but right now, the house in the ‘burbs serves our needs.
JJ
I hate to harp back on the pregnancy thread, but I had a question for all the currently-pregnant or previously-pregnant Corporetters out there: before you told people at work, how did you hide your symptoms? I’m just now getting to the point where nausea is hitting me, and I can barely keep my eyes open for four hours at a time. Also – going to the bathroom once every hour (TMI, I know) is really killing my productivity. Any secrets out there that I’m not aware of?
A
For the nausea (which was 24/7 for me) mints/gum helped. I never had any vomiting though, which seems like it would be tougher to hide/deal with. A girlfriend told me just as I hit week 12 that drinking really cold lemonade through a straw first thing in the morning helped her. As for the fatigue, I have no idea. I was exhausted all the time and could not sleep well because I was getting up three times a night to use the restroom. I just powered through, and it is really kind of amazing because I had no idea how crummy I felt until I didn’t feel that way anymore early in the second trimester. I also think that you are just stuck with the bathroom thing. You really do not want to get dehydrated, so keep drinking your water and just getting up. It will ease up in a few weeks/months. This is my first, but my understanding is that all that unpleasantness (and then some) comes back in the third trimester, but my second trimester has been pretty smooth sailing. So just keep marking the days off your calendar!
K
I would keep extra trash bags in my office, and paper bags to hide them in, in case I had to hurl and couldn’t make it to the bathroom (only twice). Also I lay down on my floor a couple times and slept for 30 minutes or so. Sour things helped – sour candy, lemonade, etc. I also found it helpful to go to bed REALLY early (think 730 pm) a few times and that really helped with the fatigue.
Anonymous
I didnt have the nausea, but I did buy a thick exercise mat I could fold up behind my desk and some afternoons, I would just shut my door and lay down for a cat nap. Naps tend to make me a little disoriented, but, sometimes I just needed to close my eyes and lay down and then I could get back to billing…..
anon
I second the gum/mints suggestion. I also slept under my desk a few times. Hang in there — it should be better soon. And as far as being found out — people don’t notice what you are doing nearly as much as you think they do.
Lawgirl
Nothing helped my nausea, unfortunately. I felt weak, sick, and terrible the first 14-16 weeks (yes, that long). I remember shutting my door, avoiding people, and doing lots of emails instead of phone calls during those months of my pregnancy. I tried sleeping in my car in the garage during the workday, but never really could. I once got home from work and slept from 7pm to 7am. My dear hubbs woke me up around 10pm, out of concern, asking if I wanted something to eat. I responded, “No, honey, I just want to sleep.” :O/
Eponine
Can you trust your boss with the secret and ask her if you can come in late on days when you feel sick? Some bosses would be awesome about this (mine would), others would probably freak out.
anon
depressing, but don’t do this unless you want to tell your boss if you’ve miscarried or chosen to terminate a problematic pregnancy. few people are that close to their boss.
Delta Sierra
Going by a dear friend’s experience, never ever say you’ve chosen to terminate a pregnancy, however valid your reason. Just say you miscarried. Please.
Otherwise there’s just too great a chance of people thinking they have a right to weigh in on your very personal, very difficult, decision. It was horrible and flabbergasting. Even friends who should’ve known better.
Lida
The thing that saved me was Unisom – ask your doctor about it. You take 1/2 pill in the morning and it cured my nausea during the 1st trimester. It’s the tiny blue oval tablets (doxylamine succinate). My OB said it was very safe and I was so miserable I was ready to try anything. Because it is an antihistamine it can make you a little drowsy (it’s actually marketed as a sleep aid) but I felt so much better and was able to eat again so the tradeoff with some drowsiness was no problem. I seriously don’t know how I could have continued working full time without it. I only needed it for a few weeks before the morning sickness eased off, and I had no complications and healthy babies.
Another friend had really bad morning sickness (almost to the point of hyperemesis) and her OB put her on “ondansetron” which is a prescription anti-nausea drug and it helped her quite a bit.
Hopefully your morning sickness will be mild but if it gets bad and you have to work, something like this may help – worth talking to your doctor about at least.
meg
I also was given onestredon, or I think it’s also sold as Zofran (my spelling here is likely all off)…I was sick for my first 2 trimesters and was losing weight pretty quickly, so they put me on this so I could keep food down. didn’t make me feel better, but kept the running-to-restroom events at bay…so if you are in really bad shape, ask about it.
JSB
I had horrible morning sickness until weeks 16-18 to the point that people were asking what was wrong because they noticed how much weight I was losing. I told my assistant and boss very early because 1) I need the extra help from my assistant to keep things going and 2) I wanted my boss to understand I wasn’t trying to slack off, but that I was struggling. I also was on Phenergan and Zofran round the clock for most of the time just to keep some form of food down. Lemonade and Gatorade were at my side at all times. Eating small snacks and not letting yourself get hungry helps as well (although I barely made it to the point that food would stay down). Most importantly is to stay hydrated, so DRINK as much as you possibly can! As for the tired feeling, try taking breaks throughout the day to walk around the office or outside. It does get better in the second trimester, although I’m very sorry to report it comes back in the third trimester again. Also, as other people have said, go to be early. You body needs the rest, and I can’t count the number of weeks I would go to bed immediately after getting home and sleep 12 hours straight. Oh and don’t worry about the bathroom thing – most people really don’t notice! A tip I would suggest is keep a big bottle of water on your desk. Especially with the summer coming on, most people will be consuming more fluids naturally, so people won’t notice. Good Luck! I promoise it does get better!
AN
I struggled with utter exhaustion (= sleepy ALL the time) but luckily no nausea/vomiting. I basically just forced myself to stay awake for the 1st tri…things worked great after that.
That said, I consider myself fortunate as that’s probably the only discomfort I had…my preg. co workers lived in the loo/had major acne breakouts/ vomited for 9 mths nonstop etc.
anonymous
did you find anything that helped with the sleepiness, or did you just tough it out?
AN
Toughed it out – I had an unsympathetic boss + was working on an anti dumping case at work hence daily meetings with lawyers…and many times I’d catch myself with a “nodding” head. It was awful!
This was despite the fact that I had no trouble getting to sleep at night. But all this exhaustion lasted just 2-3 mths.
RKS
Sleepiness/fatigue: really, there’s not much you can do about it except get as much rest as possible. But bring it up with your doctor and make sure your thyroid levels are tested. Pregnancy can push your body into hypothyroidism, which will show itself as crushing exhaustion. I’ve struggled with hypothyroidism for 11 years now. During my pregnancies and attempts at getting pregnant, my endocrinologist kept extra-close watch on my levels and each time, I needed my meds significantly increased for the duration of the pregnancies.
KLo
Reposting from the t-shirt thread in hopes that a Savannah lawyer (or visitor) is here.
Does anybody have experience in court in Savannah? I may be going to visit a judge next month and I want to make sure I’m appropriately dressed in case she introduces me to prosecutors, defense attorneys, anyone who might be willing to hire a rising 3L after I pass the bar …
Background: my dad went into her courtroom on his vacation in town, they hit it off. He’s now helping her daughter and she’s offered to bring me to her courtroom and let me follow her around some. I suspect she’ll introduce me to the attorneys and have me come to her chambers some, but that for the most part I’ll be watching in the courtroom (my first murder trial! yay? not sure?)
Does anybody know for sure what attorneys in Savannah wear? Thanks!!
GeorgiaStudent
I don’t know about Savannah, but I recently spent a week watching a trial in the Russell Federal Building in Atlanta. The only female attorney I saw in pants was the 3L that was working with me. Everyone wore skirts. I can’t imagine Savannah is less conservative than Atlanta. Your judge certainly won’t think less of you if you wear a skirt suit.
I actually talked to the other law student working with me about this. She refused to wear skirts, ever. My thoughts are, I know I won’t feel out of place in a skirt, but there is a real risk that I will if I’m in pants and everyone else is in a skirt.
KLo
Fabulous, thank you! I was planning on (if I didn’t hear anything different) wearing a navy skirt suit on the first day and bringing skirt suits and dresses with blazers (tends to be the least unflattering on me), so that’s great to hear. I was dreading having to walk around Savannah in pants anyway :) Thanks!
s-k-s
You can never go wrong wearing a simple, classic dark (navy/charcoal/black) skirt suit. No court is so informal that this would stand out.
KZ
Kat, I had a thought–since we so often have similar questions and scrolling through responses to get to what you’re looking for can sometimes get annoying, is there any way you could set up a message board to go with the blog so we could keep threads better organized/easier to find rather than just using the comments? I have no idea if it’s doable or easy, but it’s a thought.
Anonymous
Agreed; it’s a hassle to locate responses to earlier posts and very easy to miss them. And subscribing by email starts to get tedious having to read & delete each comment one by one (and you can’t tell when comments are responses to other comments). A message board would be awesome!
Chicago K
I would love that too – the weekend thread is such a great place to get feedback, it would be great to have a way to post questions every day.
Lizbet
Love this top, but the arms look tight on the stick-thin model. Any thoughts on how stretchy this fabric might be?
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Right after exams are done I am going to attempt to write on to my school’s law review. Any tips, tricks, or suggestions? As I imagine many other school’s do the packet is open the two weeks immediately following the exam period and contains a cite and source and a closed comment. I am okay at the Bluebook, but not the greatest. Any help there? Thanks in advance.
A
The BB index is the biggest asset to any editor. The problem with most people unfamiliar with the Bluebook is that they don’t know that there is a problem until someone else tells them. So, flip through the Bluebook before you start to get an idea of the full scope of what it covers. Good luck!
2L Student
Get familiar with your bluebook if you have time. Tab it for easy access to random strange things. At least at my school they chose the strangest things to cite that you will never use in real life ever.
AC
Don’t short change the blue-booking. When I was grading write-on comments, I found that there were a few really excellent pieces, a few really horrific ones, but most of the ones in the middle were pretty much indistinguishable. (The bell curve is true!) What usually made the difference between someone who was asked to join and someone who wasn’t were the citations, NOT their writing ability.
Save yourself a few hours to proof read and blue book your citations. The blue book isn’t hard, just tedious. (Just a hint, get to know T.6 but beware of 10.2.1(c). 1.4 is also a good one.) If you find that you hate it, you may want to consider if law review is for you. Are you willing to spend your “free time” cooped up in the law review office going citation by citation through an article? Law review may be prestigious, but it comes with a price.
eem
I agree with this. Keep in mind that the people who will be evaluating your submission are the journal’s editorial board, and they are going to be looking for people who are going to make their lives easier, i.e., people who have the bluebooking down. I wouldn’t have wanted to pass up someone with a mediocre comment if their bluebooking was close to perfect.
Lucy
I agree with AC. It’s perfect blue booking that matters, not the substance. Don’t spend all your time trying to come up with something earth shattering to say, just make sure you have zero typos, all the cites are perfect, and the writing itself is in the active voice, crisp, succinct, etc.
PS: not to be an ass, but your original question actually has a typo. Make sure you don’t accidentally do that on the actual write-on :)
Anon
I have to disagree w/EC. I’m a 3L who was an editor this year on our LR. Citations make up a very small % of our scoring matrix (like 5%). As long as you look like you put some effort into it and were consistent, you’ll do fine on citations. Consistency is a big thing–if you are inconsistent, we know you’re sloppy. If you are consistent in the way you cite things, at least we assume you put some thought into why you’re doing that way, even if you maybe interpreted the BB incorrectly.
My major tip would be to be organized. When reading through 50 or so versions of the same paper, the obvious differences to me were those which had a clearly thought-out organization and concise writing, v. those w/ lots of rambling, flow-y sentences and no discernible organization. Also, brevity is appreciated when you’re reading the same paper a billion times.
D
This is exactly right. I’m grading write-on this year; these are the criteria we are looking for (and no serious misstatements of the law, of course.)
Eponine
Pay extreme attention to detail – whether commas should be italicized or not in a citation, for example. Really small, nitpicky things will make the difference in who writes on and who doesn’t.
Emily
I graded law review write-on submissions as well, and I second what has already been said about use of the Bluebook. The other thing I noticed about the really good submissions was the organization; they didn’t say anything new, but they had much better headings, great roadmaps, and short, clear sentences. I know it’s sometimes taboo, but if you know anyone on law review (at your school or any other), ask to see what they wrote for their submission. Also ask someone who didn’t get on, and compare the two; or compare the “good” one against one of your own exams to see what you need to improve on.
Finally, make sure to have a plan before you start. For instance, “I’m going to be done with all the reading by X time on Monday, I’m going to have a detailed outline by Y time on Tuesday,” and so on. Leave yourself a night to sleep on it, followed by a day of editing (serious editing – reading it backwards for typos, underlining all the verbs to make sure they match the subjects, triple and quadruple checking your citations and format, etc.). And give yourself enough time to submit it! I was flying to China, and broke down crying outside the law review office because the person who was supposed to be there to collect them wasn’t there. I ended up mailing it to the law review office from a post office a block away.
Amber
I agree with almost everything here. The only thing is that at my school, it is against the honor code to look at submissions from past years. It’s a great idea, so if you decide to try it, just be 100% certain that you’re not violating any kind of rule!
Jen
I agree with everyone here. Tab your bluebook. Prepare to spend a ton of time going through citations. I found it helpful to print a copy, do my edits in pencil then double-check them as I transferred them to the final copy to turn in. I spent 40 hours on the cite check and about 10 hours on the memo portion. I did it over 1.5 weeks. I think I took 1 or 2 days off after finals and then powered through as much of it as possible before summer classes started.
My journal actually considered getting rid of the memo portion since the citations are what staff editors do. All staff editors had to write an article and 6 of them were chosen for publication, but the cite check is definitely the most important part of the job.
When checking quotes make a little mark over every single word so you can be certain it is correct and you won’t have to go look at that source again.
Good luck! Being on law review was a great experience for me and hopefully it will be for you!
Amber
If you have access to Lexis, there are some Bluebook quizzes and exercises on there. I think that’s at all schools and not just mine. Something like that could be very helpful to assist you in getting familiar with the BB before you get started with the write on. Good luck!
I’m going to be sitting on the other side of the table at the beginning of the summer (grading our write ons). Exciting!
LMo
Don’t have ACL surgery right after exams and think you’re going to be able to do the write-on while cottonmouthed and Vicodined up. Cough *personal experience* cough. Good luck!
E
electronic bluebook is fantastic due to the “search” function. i would highly recommend buying electronic bluebook (i think it costs like $30 or something) instead of tabbing up the manual blue book. and i totally agree that write-on competitions are all about perfect bluebooking!
anonymous
might want to check w/ your school’s honor code first to make sure electronic blue booking is allowed.
2L
Glad to hear you’re planning to write-on! I’m actually a big part of my law school’s competition this year and all I can say is, good luck. Manage your time VERY well. Volokh has a legal writing book that has all the advice you need about tackling the problem, check your library for it. This is the book: http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/writing/.
Ask the editors who are running your competition for advice on how much time to spend on the bluebook quiz. I would advise my 1L’s to not spend more than 1 day on it, 1.5 tops. I spent about 2.5 and that was way too much. I probably did well on it but I now know it was worth very little in my overall grade.
Don’t. Cheat. Period. I know this sounds obvious, but apparently people cheat every year.
Really think about your final claim. This year that will be the deciding factor for the ones in the middle since our topic is so very difficult. I’m sure horrible citations will knock some out, but what will really help is if they manage to grasp all of the layers of the problem (and there are many.) Leave at least 3-4 days to re-read the cases, looking for more subtle issues, and consider revising your claim.
Finally, if your school is like mine, remember that the problem was written by students who were preparing for finals. They probably put at least 100-150 hours into it but there will be problems. Don’t get frustrated. Just realize that all students in the competition are in the same boat, working with the same materials.
Good luck!
cat
I wrote on (required for everyone at my school) and graded the following year. In addition to perfect bluebooking as others have said, what made each application stand out most to me, good or bad, was organization and headings. It may sound silly, but by this point, the quality/style of your writing and analytical ability is what it is. The substance of the articles all start to blend together after awhile. What you can really control is the bluebooking and formatting. Make sure the argument is well-organized with clear, succint headings in consistent formatting (full sentences v. phrases, periods v. no periods, capitals, etc.). Of course, no typos. And when you feel burnt out after finals, if you feel tempted to not give it your all, just remember that it’s only a few more days to buckle down, and if you make it, law review will not only help you w/job hunting post-grad, but it will stay on your resume forever as one credential that all lawyers immediately recognize. Good luck!
Delta Sierra
I have no experience with legal writing, but have been a writer/editor all my life, and have edited a lot of horrible stuff. Biggest sin was people writing too long. The 2nd last edit should be for length. Cut every word that hasn’t earned its right to be there. Reorganize sentences and structure, if need be.
The last edit is for grammar, punctuation and spelling. It’s always a good idea to get someone else to read it just before you make this final edit, since fresh eyes see things you’ve skipped over.
Also, when I make that last edit I set my brain differently. I deliberately ignore content, and look only at gr., pu. and sp.
2L
This is excellent advice! It was the main feedback I received on my journal comment this year and is always my biggest problem.
But be sure to read the rules of your competition. Our rules explicitly say NO help, no letting anyone read it, nothing.
2L Student
Hey ladies,
I decided biglaw wasn’t for me and got a job in a small office this summer in California doing my dream practice area. I’ve been told that the firm is really casual and jeans are the norm (on all days, not just Fridays). I want to make a great impression so that I can possibly get an offer but I don’t want to stick out.
Any suggestions on types of jeans to wear (I’m thinking dark wash) and the types of shoes/tops to go with them? I’m seriously stressing this casual situation which is funny b/c my biglaw friends are more worried about if their suits are nice enough to fit it!
KZ
definitely dark wash. maybe trouser jeans? ( a quick search on shop style turned up these: http://www.toryburch.com/toryburch/browse/productDetail.jsp?icProduct=32091268&icSort=&icCategory=cat160028 I’m sure you can find the equivalent for cheaper somewhere.)
I would start dressier with shoes/shirts (maybe what you would wear with nice pants to work normally) and then adjust accordingly to what everyone else is wearing. I wouldn’t buy a bunch of stuff up front in case you get it wrong and need something else.
KLo
Eddie Bauer has some nice trouser jeans (usually $65ish) and I LOVE mine. They do fade a tiny bit after about 8-12 months of daily wear. But I guess you should expect that :) And congrats!!
Nancy P
I got a great pair of trouser jeans at Gap last year. Very reasonably priced.
Also perhaps some nice black cotton pants? The kind you’d wear to a weekend brunch with your friends? I would think they’d be casual enough but wouldn’t stick out.
Lola
Jeans are the norm at my office, too, but no one freaks out if you’re wearing khakis or a skirt. You still don’t want to look trashy.
Lola
I also wanted to say – just because jeans will eventually be the norm for you, it’s not ok to show up the first day in jeans and a hoodie. Look as professional as you think you can the first few weeks, and take your cues from the others working there.
mm
I can never figure out why people think khakis make for a more professional business casual look than dark trouser jeans. Khakis conform to my firm’s business casual dress code while jeans do not, and it always confuses me why it’s better for people to walk around in crappy, wrinkled khakis versus a tailored pair of jeans and a jacket.
That said, for a firm in which jeans are the norm, I would start with jeans and nicer shoes–maybe some open-toes mid-heels in a relatively dark color, and some nicer sweaters/ blouses. And nice jewelry. You’ll have lots of options.
mm
I do agree with the comment above regarding not wearing jeans on the first day, however, unless a partner-level person has specifically told you that it’s okay to do so, and even then I probably wouldn’t.
Shayna
Be careful of the trouser jeans – they tend to be wide legged which can make you look heavy if you’re not very tall (I’m 5’2″ so I’m familiar with their pitfalls!)
Dark wash is good, obviously no holes, rhinestones, etc. – Make sure they’re the right lengt for the shoes you’re wearing – no dragging on the ground, and nothing too tight.
If you’re near a GAP outlet that’s where I like to go – they have pretty much every fit that the GAP sells, for far less money (I”ve bought jeans there for $20). Match them with nice sweaters/shirts, and cute shoes, not sneakers to avoid a too casual look.
Denise
I second the non-vote for trouser jeans. I hate them on myself, both how they look and how they feel. If they told you the dress code is jeans, then real jeans are acceptable, as long as they are clean and hole-free.
A.
Ladies,
I travel routinely for work (consulting) and usually pack several necklaces into a small pouch or jewelry box. When I’m getting ready the next morning, I always find the chains tangled up! Any advice for travelling with jewelry, especially necklaces and bracelets?
anon
wrap them in tissue
Eponine
They make special jewelry packets for travel. Mine is a zipper case, and has a strap that you hang necklaces on. The end of each necklace goes into its own pouch. That way they cannot slide around and tangle. I believe I got mine at Target but any travel store should have them.
cj
Kat had a neat tip awhile ago! I haven’t tried it, but it sounds like it would work really well for travel: Cut 1/2 – 1″ slits in a business card, spaced 1″ or so apart, down both of the long sides. Then wrap the chain around the card, fitting it into the slits as you go around. One necklace or bracelet per card. Not sure if I’m describing that well, but maybe you can search for the post if my description doesn’t make sense.
Delta Sierra
Little clear plastic ziplocs from a craft store. I’ve had a few dozen 3″ x 4″ that I’ve used and reused many times over the ten years I’ve had them.
jojo
Even better, don’t put the whole chain inside the ziploc. Leave the clasp and a few inches on either side *outside* the bag. Seal all around the chain. It’ll prevent tangles, promise.
Shayna
I use a jewelry case that has loops that snap around each necklace so they don’t get tangled in a ball – before I had that I used individual small velvet bags and put them all in a larger bag. Generally though I try not to travel with too much jewelry — I worry too much about losing it!
Bets
I’ve always used a travel pill case–the kind that has a separate compartment for each day of the week. Won’t work for larger pieces, but most of my jewelry is quite delicate. Also really good for keeping pairs of earrings together.
A
I have this case that works well.
http://www.amazon.com/Naples-Jewelry-Travel-Reed-Barton/dp/B001HACRE4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=jewelry&qid=1272244994&sr=1-2
Both ends of the necklaces are snapped down, so they don’t tangle. This is good when I am travelling with lots of jewelry. If I had limited space and just a couple of the chains, I would use the business card trick described in the other comment.
Jay
Ladies who work internationally–please advise! I will be taking a vacation next month to a European city where my firm has an office. Unfortunately, it looks like work demands will require that I get to know that office more than I would like. So what do I wear? How do junior female associates in Europe dress?
Eponine
I always just dress like an American when I travel for work – i.e. wear the same stuff I always wear. I’m a little less madeup and colorful than my foreign counterparts, but they know I’m foreign and don’t care, any more than we care when they show up in our US offices wearing hot pink and stiletto heels.
L from Oz
Europe’s a bit general – style in London isn’t the same as style in Hamburg, and weather demands make Barcelona different to Warsaw.
And if it’s Milan or Paris…
If I have to generalise, I’d say things are slightly more tailored – baggy is not a particularly wonderful look. Also, check if your destination has a lot of public transport, or cobbled roads/footpaths – this is crucial for picking shoes. Thin high heels on cobbles are extremely unpleasant, and if you’re using the underground in London or the metro in Paris, you have to be able to walk, climb stairs etc.
I tend to have the opposite problem to Eponine, as I’ve moved to a part of Europe where the dress code is “fashion? What’s that”, so I feel exposed in brighter or more stylish things from the UK or Australia. Mind you, I commute on a bike in work clothes, so I’m not against practical outfits (and am glad I don’t have to live up to Copenhagen standards of bike chic), but there is a limit to how drab I’m willing to go…
cbackson
Just curious–how long is your commute? I bike commute about 14.5 miles round-trip, and I can’t imagine doing so in my work clothes. I mean, I live in a hilly city with very bad weather, so rain gear is a must for me, but even on nice days, I get sweaty enough in the process that I wouldn’t want to be in dress pants.
L from Oz
My commute’s only 5-10km (depending on work site) and it’s on bike paths the whole way. I also live in the pancake-flat north-west of Europe, so it’s not really strenuous. I’ve got a ‘Dutch’ (upright) bike with a basket, only three gears, and I rarely use more than 1.
There are a couple of outfits I change into at work, but that’s because I can’t physically cycle in them (pencil skirt, anyone?) rather than because I sweat.
14 miles, including hills, and I’d be in bike gear too! I know there’s a big move to make cycling mainstream, but there are limits…it’s really the infrastructure here that makes all the difference.
Eponine
True. I’m talking about Eastern Europe, where I once met with a judge who was wearing a skintight leopard-print top showing completely under her open judicial robe and stiletto boots.
N
It depends on where in Europe you’ll be working. Some countries are more casual than others, and workplaces may differ. Since it is the same firm that you’re working for either place, I would assume that the overall dress code would be the same. You could quite possibly wear the same work clothes here in Europe as you would in the states without standing out. I know that the global company I worked for as an intern in Copenhagen had a similar dress code there as they did in NY, London and Paris. Makes things easier when the consultants had to travel, and ensured that everyone looked professional.
But it might help to look at either a fashion magazine from the country you’re heading for, browse some clothing stores online – or to simply ask other people in your firm you know have been there.
EN
I can speak for BigLaw in Paris: women I saw wore pretty similar things to what I would wear to work in my BigLaw business casual office in the Midwest. A bit more emphasis on fashion perhaps and my office mate often wore jersey dresses a couple of inches shorter than I would dare to wear to the office. Generally: business casual with a bit of fashion?
Since they are all required to wear robes to court, courtroom wardrobe is a non-issue (though I did see some scandalously strappy sandals under those robes! LOL.).
Mary
When I was in Copenhagen, I was always impressed at how dressed up the Danish students were for class – especially since they commuted on bicycles! But yes, lots of black with occasional hints of white, cream, or red – I think I stuck out because of my messy hair and colorful clothes. But the Danish do tend to choose very tailored clothes that suit their bodies perfectly (although not hard when you’re tall and slender).
I have lived in Copenhagen, Paris, Brussels, London, Florence, and Amsterdam, and they range from more dowdy (London) to more after-hours (Florence). In general, I would say black/tailored/leather/expensive (looking)/groomed hair/big purses/more makeup/walkable/practical, or some variation thereof. IMO, they tend to buy fewer but more expensive clothes of a better quality in neutrals and black – I wore a cotton shirt that would be fine under a suit jacket here, but I felt like everyone stared at me all day like “that top cost you $11.99 on sale, didn’t it?” Everyone had a nice leather bag too, and nice shoes – no canvas or ‘commuter’ shoes. But they wore makeup that I would consider appropriate for going out rather than the office, and had little things like fishnet stockings or big necklaces that wouldn’t be appropriate here. Maybe take the opportunity to wear some statement jewelry that you’ve been hesitant about wearing here? If your clothing is simple then you can always ditch the sweater or accessories if they look ‘wrong.’
Side note – at least in my limited experience, offices are not as overly air-conditioned in the summer as they are here, so be aware that you might not need a cardigan or sweater. Older buildings mean more stairs and fewer elevators. I also second the note on cobblestones and stilettos, or even slender kitten heels – it’s tough to look professional when you’re wobbling around like the ground has turned into ice.
Anyway, that’s just what I thought! Have a wonderful time, and enjoy your vacation – and the fantastic European shopping! :)
lily
Does anyone have good suggestions for law school graduation gifts? I was leaning towards a business card holder. Thoughts? Suggestions?
Eponine
I received a nice silver paperweight from Tiffany’s, engraved with my initials and my graduation date, that sits on my desk still today. Other nice gifts would include pearl studs or necklace, a good leather portfolio/pad holder, and, yes, a nice purse-sized business card holder. If your friend is a drinker, “grown-up” drinks items like a decanter, martini glass set, etc, would also be nice gifts.
Emily
If the person is employed, dry cleaning gift certificates or an appointment with a personal shopper and a gift card would be helpful. If not employed, business cards might be helpful too. My boyfriend’s parents got me a nice diploma frame, which I really like. I also got a million pen and pencil sets when I graduated…the reality is I grab whatever pen is in the cup on my desk, and never take the nice ones out of their boxes.
Lola
I’ve always wanted one of those desk signs that has my name, and then “Attorney at Law.” You can take it from job to job.
Eponine
Really? Unless you’re a solo practitioner, I find this idea to be a little odd and bordering on boastful or tacky. Who’s going to come in your office who doesn’t already know you’re an attorney?
I’d rather have something both functional and decorative, like a diploma frame or business card case. I’d say be careful with the diploma frame, though, as the recipient may be picky about colors, matting, etc. Probably a gift certificate to a frame shop is a better gift. My dad wanted to get me diploma frames and planned to surprise me with it, but luckily he thought better of it and this was good because he would have gone with something that did not appeal to me at all aesthetically and I would have not wanted to look at every day on my office wall.
anonymous
yeah, I wouldn’t get this. At least in biglaw (especially if, say, you share an office) no one has stuff like this on their desks, and it may stand out in a not-so-good way. Someone got me for graduation something to put on my desk and I have never displayed it. Maybe in 10 years.
Shayna
Don’t get a diploma frame — As someone who frequently has to have copies of hers made and sent for certifications, etc., I can tell you that the best place for your diploma is a safety deposit box — if you really need to display your diploma, pay for a second copy, but frame your undergrad and grad diplomas to match if possible — Michaels craft stores usually have 50% coupons in the sunday paper (or go online), and they do absolutely gorgeous framing work.
Shayna
The only downside to the dry cleaning certificates is if you’re not sure where they go (or will be going if they are planning a post-graduation move) – Not sure if other cities have dry cleaning chains but out here on the East Coast they tend to all be individually owned (and I don’t think I’ve ever seen an ad for gift certificates in any of them)
Shayna
Think classic gifts – a nice pen (think fountain pen, mont blanc type) is a classic gift, the pearl necklace (I was given a strand when I graduated undergrad that I love), a nice nameplate for the desk, leather briefcase (the dress kind)…
KM
For my law school graduation I got several gift cards to my favorite clothing stores (for professional clothing) to help me build my professional wardrobe. I know it seems a little impersonal but those gift cards certainly came in handy when I needed to buy a new suit or blouses to go with that suit and was short on cash. The gift cards were also amazing excuses to go shopping when I needed some retail therapy when studying for the bar exam got to be too much. Restaurant gift cards were also greatly appreciated. I also received a GPS which has proven invaluable, not just for personal travel but for when I have to go to an unfamiliar courthouse for work. I know it’s a practical gift but I think of my uncle every time the GPS successfully guides me to my destination.
Anonymous
speaking of graduation, does anyone have suggestions for a nice pants-based graduation outfit to wear under my cap and gown?
anonymous
my non-fashion suggestion is to wear something lightweight — it’ll be springtime and you’ll be wearing a robe on top, so you don’t want to be hot. i’m wear some nice silky short-sleeved shirt.
MelD
Have you gotten your gown yet? I ask because mine was really small on me- the sleeves were 3/4 length and the bottom hem was pretty far off the floor. It was not a heavy material and we had to line up outside before several parts of the ceremony. It was in the 30s during the initial lineup, so I ended up choosing a blazer that matched the gown so I wouldn’t freeze. If you get a gown and find out it’s the right length, you’ll probably be able to wear whatever you want because you won’t have much sleeve/leg showing.
SF Bay Associate
For graduation, I got a silver business card case with my name engraved on it from my aunt. It’s very simple, elegant, and not obviously from any particular brand. I carry it with me always, and have received compliments from partners and clients. Interestingly, it’s the men who are impressed, but that may be a sample bias given how few women I work with. Plus, because it’s shiny silver, it doubles as a mirror (for use in office with door closed, of course).
Pearl studs, or high-quality cubic zirconia studs, are another great idea and are part of my daily uniform.
SUCL 3L
I can tell you what I asked for for graduation… a nice name plate like one I saw an attorney had once (granite with a metal plaque that said “Full Name, Esq.”), a large work-type purse/tote preferably leather, and some nice jewelry. Those were the suggestions I gave my dad when he asked what I wanted.
CJ in CA
I’m a graduating 3L. I’d love to get a professional looking watch (I think a pearl necklace and diamond/ cz earings would be good too, but I’m covered). Many people especially my age use their phone as a clock. But, it’s pretty unprofessional to pull out your phone in a meeting if you want to know the time.
I got a wonderful black leather tote for Christmas, that I think would be an equally good grad gift. I think most students already have a padfolio- at least I always did for interviews.
I think my parents will be framing my diplomas as a graduation gift.
A
I’m sure that you’ve thought of this, but just in case you haven’t. My in laws got me lovely pearl studs, but my ears aren’t pierced! It was awkward for them, and for me because I hate the fact that they spent money on something that I’d never use so I had to tell them. In the end it was no big deal, but depending on how close you are to the “giftee” you might want to shy away from earrings.
Shayna
Didn’t think of that (My ears have been pierced since I was 2… and double pierced since I was 12)… bracelet/necklace/watch would be a safer bet — and I would stay away from watch unless you know someone well because knowing whether silver or gold would go with what they wear is difficult, and most women have a distinct preference for one or the other.
MelD
I agree completely on the watch. I don’t wear a watch because I’m allergic to metal and even a little bit of metal touching my skin causes me to break out. Many people I know who don’t wear them have the same issue, but can wear gold/silver jewelry with no problem.
Delta Sierra
Watches as gifts. Very tricky. I have tendinitis and skinny wrists, and metal watch bands make them ache, so I’d have to switch it out for a leather one.
Eponine
I have to give a conference presentation at 9am tomorrow (yes, on a Saturday). At 11:30pm, I was putting the finishing touches on a slide by adding a picture. Powerpoint froze, and I had to force quit. No biggie, I thought, as Autorecover was turned on and had been saving regularly. Wrong. Autorecover has completely and utterly failed me, and I just lost 3 hours or so worth of work plus all of my notes, as I’d inserted them with the slides.
So, who wants to hold my hand while I sob?
KZ
oh dear :-( I have no idea if any of these will work, but here’s a link for possible solutions in that situation:
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/article/lostfile.htm
good luck!
anon
try looking in .tmp files to see if anything at all was saved
Amber
Oh no! I am sending good vibes your way :(
Anonymous
awwwww, that’s terrible!
let us know how your presentation went. i’m sure you did great despite the setback.
KLo
Oh lord! Poor thing … I did the same thing with a paper (okay, I was a moron who deleted the right information and rewrote 10 pages with the wrong stuff and didn’t save my original work) but I have a month to recover. But I’m positive that you did (or will do, depending upon your time zone) a great job on that presentation!
anonymous
if you’re at a firm, call your IT people
Eponine
No, nothing was saved. Autorecover utterly failed and nothing in the Mac equivalent of a temp file. I was away from the office at an outside event so no tech people other than a close family member who works in IT, whom I called in tears. It was a long night, but I reinvented my presentation well enough and I knew the material anyway so it went fine even if the slides were not as pretty as they should have been. Such a pain in the neck, though. I have to remember to save.
cat
Just wanted to give you my sympathies; been there. It’s the worst feeling. Glad your pres went well.
MK
What do you ladies think of this bag for a summer externship position?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002A7XJC2/?tag=bagbunch-20&link_code=ur2&creative=9325&camp=211189
CFM
I like it!
KLo
I like it too, and it inspired me to look a little for one of my own!
Shayna
Cute – are the straps big enough to go over your shoulder? I wouldn’t get it unless you can put it on your shoulder to keep your hands free if need be.
MK
yes, they’re big enough to be hands-free. there’s also a long shoulder strap but i don’t think it looks as professional when worn that way, mainly because the bag is so large.
Shayna
Yes, the extra snap-on strap sounds like a good idea but rarely looks good – more like luggage (the worst are those backpacks that can also be messenger bags and are wheeled… waaaay too much going on)
3L
Sorry, but I don’t like it. Something about quilted nylon doesn’t equate with workplace or professional to me.
sarlac
I’m thinking of buying a Louis Vuitton bag– the damier canvas neverfull.
I’m of the mindset of quality over quantity. I’d rather have one nice bag for 2 years then numerous bags that fall apart after a few months (plus those are not that cheap anymore either!). Do people think that Louis Vuitton is tacky, or a classic worth spending the money on?
Amber
I, personally, think it is tacky, though I am no purse afficionado. I generally don’t care for bags that have logos or that are so recognizable.
Anonymous
agreed. the “obvious”/logo designer bags seem a bit obnoxious to me.
not sure if this is big enough for your purposes, but i like something like this better:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3055031/0~6006558~6007186~6007192?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=category&searchtype=&pbo=6007192&P=2
Anonymous
or this, if it were black: http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=477899&CategoryID=16960
KZ
agreed. I don’t like such obvious designer prints, but I may be biased because I think Louis Vuitton designs are just ugly usually. But there are plenty of nice brands that don’t scream “I spent a ton of money on this purse, aren’t I awesome?”
anon
agreed, it’s kind of tacky. If you want a quality leather bag, try Coach (they still have some bags without those horrible Cs everywhere). I’ve been using my big black leather tote for 5 years
1L
What about this for a summer associate bag? Or will I be judged for carrying a bag from target (please note I’m on a super tight budget…)? http://www.target.com/Merona-Croco-Work-Tote-Black/dp/B002UD6X1A/ref=br_1_20?ie=UTF8&frombrowse=1&qid=1272131798&searchView=grid5&sr=1-20&node=12940951&searchRank=pmrank&searchPage=1&searchSize=150&id=Merona%20Croco%20Work%20Tote%20Black&searchBinNameList=purchasing_channel%2Ctarget_com_category-bin%2Ctarget_com_primary_color-bin%2Ctarget_com_brand-bin%2Cprice
N
I have the brown version of the bag. I’m no longer a summer associate :-) Call me junior or mid level, depending on the day. I’ve taken that bag into court; I’ve gotten compliments on it as well.
It’s a cute bag, very conservative, and very appropriate. And goes well with the Target shoes I am wearing in the office today, as well as the $300 brown shoes I wore with the bag last week.
Anyone who judges you for a Target bag based on the fact its from Target is either (a) going to judge you regardless and should be ignored, or (b) is a posseur who should be ignored. If it is appropriate to the workplace, it doesn’t matter if it cost $29.99 or $29,999.99. And, BTW, some of the most successful partners with the nice 7 figure income will also shop regularly at Target.
Shayna
so true – and honestly, anyone who is going to judge you based on how much you spend on something is hardly the kind of person you should be trying to emulate/impress (and yes, I know that gets challenging when it’s your boss… in which case if you’re bold, use it as an opportunity to ask for a raise)
I love Target… I don’t have a Target bag, because I’ve had the same DVF bag for years (TJ Maxx $30), but that’s a cute one (I do have Target swimwear, socks, shirts, etc… great swim stuff by the way)
Lola
I love that Target one. I’ve been carrying Target bags to trial for years and no problem.
CFM
I think that’s fine, also I would really recommend Marshall’s of TJ Maxx
Eponine
That’s perfect, and much more reasonable to buy with your student loan money than a designer or brand-name bag.
AR
I’ve had a number of those bags, and I’ve gotten more compliments on them from random women than anything else that I’ve ever purchased…
I’ve found that the straps tend to fall apart after a couple of months, but it should last for most of the summer.
Chicago K
Exactly what I was going to post! I’ve had 2 target bags, and one I got a TON of compliments on, especially from MEN. It was similar to the one you posted, but a bit bigger and in a wine color. The other was a basic zip close black leather shoulder bag.
Granted, I was toting a laptop around in these bags, which they may not have been designed for, but the strap broke after a few months on the basic black one, and on the wine color one, the “leather” on the strap cracked and you could see weird cotton/wool stuff underneath.
I threw them both out, although they were good for a few months, and I got tons of compliments on them. I doubt anyone will know your bag is from Target unless they bought the same one there too. They look pretty nice.
RR
I almost bought this. Instead, I bought another $30 Merona tote from Target that I carry to work every day. It’s my favorite work bag ever – completely functional, and I think it looks good. Does it look like I spent $500 on it? No. Do I care? No. It looks professional, and it does the job. (I’m a senior associate in a BigLaw firm.)
anonymous
i love that. i may have to order it. (and i’m a mid-level biglaw associate, if that helps you feel more comfortable with it!)
Lynette
I’ll be the lone dissenter here and say that if you like the bag and it fits your lifestyle and personality, then by all means, buy it. While I have never considered purchasing a Louis Vuitton (they’re not my style), I don’t think that they’re tacky. And I personally don’t put too much thought into what bags other women are carrying.
Nancy P
I’ll join Lynette. (Also because I super want a LV Neverfull.) I think they’re classic. And, at least in New York, I think enough people agree that you won’t be judged.
EN
Agree, one of the female partners at my office carries the Neverfull MM…I always think it looks chic on her arm (she has a very classic look), though it is not what I would personally choose. Up with personal choice! If you love it and can afford it, buy it!
JSB
I’m joining Lynette here! I have a couple LV bags and I have to say I absolutely LOVE them. They are very classic and seriously hold up for YEARS! They are great quality and as long as you like it, that’s really all that matters! Enjoy your bag!
Eponine
LV and other logo bags are a look that I personally don’t like, but I do see professional women carrying them. So long as the color is relatively neutral, the shape of the bag is traditional and there’s no flashy hardware, I don’t think it matters a lot.
I just googled the Damier Canvas Neverfull, though, and to me it looks a bit too casual – the tote shape plus the fact that it’s not leather. It looks a bit reminiscent of a picnic basket with the pattern, too. I don’t like this particular bag.
divaliscious11
If you like, buy it! Who cares what other people think? You are buying for you, not them, and if they are judge-y towards you for your bag, that says far more about them than it says about you.
I have the neverfull and love it. It carries a ton of stuff, is great as a carry-on because you can tuck a smaller bag in it as well as files and a laptop.
Class or tackiness come from the person, not the bag. You can carry a $1000 bag and look tacky or a $10 bag and look fabulous.
(the other) Dasha
I’m not a huge fan of LV or the particular bag, but I don’t think its bad. Personally, I would go for something more neutral – like LV epi leather if you are set on LV.
If I were in your position, I would choose the Madison carryall in black from Coach, or the black large leather charm tote (remove the charm). But its a taste thing, so I think the LV bag is fine.
AN
Damier is better than the logo LV, but I would pick the Epi range if I were you – no logos there…very classy!
Shayna
My sister’s boyfriend gave her a Louis Vuitton bag – one that cost nearly $800 while on a trip to Italy… she almost never uses it because the assumption is that it must be a fake – which is beyond tacky. I would stay away from anything with logos on it (The Chanel logo on a bag is probably the worst, but LV, Coach, etc., because you just look like you’re trying too hard).
Houda
Hey
I like the LV bags -and believe me you’re keeping them for more than 2 years.
The damier canvas is more understated than the monogram.
Little warning: some people might think your bag is fake:
1- you don’t care wear it with pride
2- do you really look like someone who would wear a fake.. ya didn’t think so!
3- people who are knowlegeable enough know that it is the real thing and no they won’t think it is a fake.
Enjoy your bag!
3L
I am just curious why someone would choose a LV bag when there are countless other high (if not higher) quality bags out there that are so much more unique!
Houda
Very good point :)
But actually what we forget sometimes is that LV is famous for quality and because of their success, they invented the monogram to avoid counterfeit (ironic hehe). There are the leather options which are gorgeous and last for generations. But with my current budget I only go for canvas. When I get more financial ease I’ll definitely go for the more understated versions, but I still love the damier canvas :)
housecounsel
You guys are killing me. I bought the Neverfull precisely because it was recommended on this site a few months ago. It is so huge and sturdy and I love it . . . except now I am self-conscious that you all are watching me walk down the street and thinking I am tacky.
Nancy P
No no housecounsel, you are my hero. It’s really as great as they say? Like I can throw a three-inch binder in there full of papers to bring home?
divaliscious11
Yes you can.
Eponine
I think everyone is assuming it has LV logos all over it, which is kind of tacky. According to Google this bag doesn’t have logos.
Houda
housecounsel you made a great choice, I love the bag!
LV canvas is very sturdy and unlike leather you don’t worry too much about rain snow and other issues.
Just a quick note on the picnic basket comment; the bag has long pieces of leather (don’t know the english word for it) and you can use them to tighten the bag and it looks much more pulled together.
:)
K
Happy weekend, ladies!
Has anyone out there found an effective method of removing lint, and particularly pet hair, from clothes (especially suits)? I have a white cat, and I swear I’m going to have to either shave him or dye him black. Those lint roller things seem to just glue the hair more firmly into place, and lint brushes seem to put on more than they take off. Any suggestions to keep me from looking like a crazy cat lady?
Thanks!
KLo
I like the sticky tape lint rollers. I keep one in my car and roll before I get in. That way the hair doesn’t get into my car. If that is the kind that glues the hair down, I don’t know what to recommend … shave your cat? Wear nothing but pleather? ;) Good luck!
Shayna
Ditto – I keep one in the house right by the door for when I leave, one in the office, and a tiny one in my purse for in between :-)
(Have a small dog that sheds upon occasion, and have ended up wearing sweaters that shed all over my skirt/pants… ugh!)
MelD
The lint rollers specifically for pet hair aren’t quite as sticky as some other varieties, so you may want to attempt to find one that is stickier. usually they look more beige like masking tape, while the pet ones are white.
Kat
have you tried fedex labels? they can be a great quick fix for removing lint when you’re at the office. seriously, try it sometime! :)
Eponine
Honestly? The last thing I do before leaving the house is get dressed, and I don’t sit down or pick up my cats once I have my work clothes on. I also don’t allow them in the closet even though it is their fondest desire to sneak in their and sleep on my clothes.
I also find that the Scott or Scotch brand (with the red plaid on the label) is the best brand of sticky lint rollers. They work fine for removing my longhair tortie’s hair from my clothes. You could also try rubbing yourself with a dryer sheet or a clean Swiffer sheet in a pinch.
cat
Ditto. 3 cats here. I change into work clothes immediately before leaving and change out of them right after I get home; I never sit down anywhere in my house; otherwise, cat hair city. I don’t pick the cats up either, and we don’t let them in the clost. I keep a lint roller at home and one at my desk to pick up stray hairs.
AIMS
I would also add that it’s harder to get the lint/pet hair off when you’re wearing the item. I lay out whatever is covered on an ironing board — lets you give a good thorough once-over w.o hurting yourself :)
KM
I throw a trench coat on as soon as I get dressed. Since I never wear the coat in the office I don’t really care if it’s covered in dog/cat hair, although I have gotten asked on the train what type of pets I have. I’ve also found that certain fabrics attract pet hair less than others — for example, stretch wool (in my experience) attracts less pet hair than my poly blend BUT my good quality poly blend attracts less than my lesser quality poly blend. Finally — clear packing tape is the best pet hair remover ever. Just tear off enough to wrap around you hand and go to town.
K
See, I do all this and I’m still covered no matter what!
Shayna
Are your clothes staticky? Try drying them with Bounce sheets to cut the static – I find that when I’m staticky the dog hair is magnetically attached to me… The only caveat is don’t use the Bounce when you wash your towels, it might make them less absorbent.
Houda
Same issue here :) I use a sticky roll and it helps a lot?
2L NYC
As a follow-up to the Burberry polo shirt posted the other day, what do you all think about Ralph Lauren Dress Shirts? Is it OK to have the polo pony on a dress shirt, or is that tacky? These just happen to be the most comfortable, and highest quality shirts I can find in my price range (see example A: http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3118971) but don’t know if it’s biglaw appropriate.
KZ
I’ll let others answer the question, but I’d like to express my annoyance that a lot of the pictures on the RL site don’t show any embrodiery, but then when I click on the “read more” description, it informs me it has monogramming. Example: http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2166195&cp=1760782.2735224&view=99&pg=2&parentPage=family
I wish brands would figure out I don’t want their monogram on my shirt. LRL aren’t my initials and I’m not on a polo team, thank you very much. I also learned from this picture: http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3965889 that apparently I can wear my riding pants around and be perfectly in style, which is a somewhat disturbing thought.
(I’m procrastinating from finals studying–does it show?)
2L NYC
oops, the link didn’t work, sorry!
Eponine
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone in my office wearing a monogrammed dress shirt. It strikes me as too casual for the office.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy any shirt with a visible logo or monogram, because I don’t want to pay to provide a company with advertising.
AIMS
I don’t really have a problem with the polo pony & I was the one who originally took issue with the burberry shirt. I think it’s so common to have something in that place (e.g., american eagle has a bird of some sort, forever21 has something, etc.), so that even though the pony is obviously recognizable it’s not quite such blatant advertising. To me, that is not a problem — obviously, someone out there is bound to take issue but that is the case with every single item, ever, and small insignia like the polo pony or the BB golden fleece don’t really strike me as tacky.
Anonymous
exactly, the little polo pony, lacoste croc, etc. aren’t particularly noticeable or remarkable.
Shayna
A single pony is fine, but the shirts that are dotted with them a la a dalmation, so so tacky I can’t even beging to denote my annoyance.
A lot of shirts have a single small logo – I just looked down and sure enough my Michael Kors polo has a small M embroidered
Miriam
Hello, I am a 1L and I am planning to transfer to another school mostly due to location and price. I am currently working on my personal statement and I was wondering if anyone had advice on what to write or transferring in general. Thanks!
C. Z.
Hi!
I considered transferring but am going to stay put, so I’m not sure if I can be much help, but I’ll give it a try. I think the important thing in your personal statement is to make it clear why you’ve made the decision to transfer, and if the school is one that you wouldn’t have been admitted to outright as a 1L based on grades/LSAT, you may want to say specifically why you’ve chosen that school, and why you think you have what it takes to succeed there.
As far as transferring in general, I think that people who transfer tend to be in an interesting place socially, at least in my experience. I know one who has integrated really well, and you’d never know he was a transfer, but I know several who have really struggled to find a social niche, especially if they didn’t join groups or journals, because so many of the social bonds we form are within our 1L sections. Also, I’m not sure what type of school you’re planning on transferring to (like from a school ranked 50-100 to one in the t-14), but I would schedule a talk with the career services office of your transfer school to ask about the job prospects for transfers. I’ve heard anecdotally that transfers really struggled in this economy to get offers through OCI.
Good luck!
KZ
I agree with the above. My boyfriend transferred to my law school after his 1L year, and I think it really helped that he had a definite reason for wanting to transfer to this school (me!). My school was the only one he got into as a transfer (he applied to 4 as a transfer). I do think it lands you in kind of an odd place socially. My school happens to take an extremely large transfer class, so they all kind of bonded together, but if the school you want to transfer to only takes a handful of transfers, it might be hard to integrate.
2L NYC
I transferred this past fall. If you have a particular interest it really helps if it matches up with the school’s strength. Highlight that in your personal statement for sure. I was also transferring for location, you should mention that as well.
Anonymous
I transferred after 1L year and agree with the comments above. Try to articulate why you want to transfer in a way that makes it seem like you’re not just doing it to go to a “better” school. Also, my biggest piece of advice is study as hard as you can for exams this semester. I got the impression that (absent some truly compelling circumstances) grades are the main thing the admissions committee considers when deciding who to admit into the transfer class.
anonymous
I wouldn’t mention location or, especially, price. I would first flatter the school — do they have some special programs that you specifically want but your current school doesn’t have? Then second show them why they should want you — what do you bring to the school? Any special background or interests? Anything that can show how involved you plan to be in the school’s clubs etc?
Miriam
Thanks for all of your advice everyone. I mentioned location because I am currently at a school outside my home state and I’m stressing the ties that I have to the state and even mentioning that I have obtained an internship with a judge back home this summer. I’m staying away from the financial issue even though the school I want to transfer into would save me about $20,000 per year! My basic outline is to show that I have joined several student organizations, would be an asset to the school both in and out of the classroom, and show that I have researched the school and know what they have to offer students.
Anonymous
I think location and ties to the home state are very important. (Did you apply there initially? Just curious, I dont have an opinion about whether that helps or hurts). I transferred after my first year as well to come “home”. My home school only accepts a few transfers every year and I wnated to make sure I got one of those spots. I obtained an externship with a federal judge in the city where I wanted to transfer, as well as a summer internship. (FWIW, the externship was “no credit,” since the judge was out of state, I was unable to make it to summer school for the mandatory once a week extern class, and since I hadnt “officially” transferred, it wouldnt count for the school I was transferring to either. But, the experience was invaluable, and I ended up clerking for the judge post grad. The internship was not biglaw, but it showed my intent to live and work in home state).
I also made an appointment to speak with the Dean. I was able to say “[a professor at the law school] recomended I make an appointment to talk with you and introduce myself.” Without being too pushy or desperate, I explained that while I had started law school in another state, because I was getting married and moving back to my home state, I was very interested in transferring, and I would appreciate any advice or assistance he could give on how to make my application stand out. I pointed out in my statement my ties to the state, the success I had at my school, and my intentions to stay in home state long term.
JAS
I guess work/interview appropriate really is in the eye of the beholder…I thought you ladies might enjoy taking a look at this:
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-shopping-guide-interview-dresses/
If you don’t have time to look at the link, thefrisky.com is showing 10 or so “interview appropriate” dresses, recommending them for college graduates. They are nearly all sleeveless, fitted, and a couple inches above the knee. Luckily a lot of commenters have urged suits only!
Shayna
I saw that — I can’t imagine what jobs they think college graduates this year are applying for where a sleeveless dress would be appropriate.
Perhaps they confused “interview” with “graduation party” ?
Interviewer
I am reposting this, hoping to get more responses . . .
I have a second interview at a (somewhat) snobby firm. I have practiced law (including clerkship) for nearly six years, so I thought it best not to pull out the standard “law school” black skirt suit. For my first interview, I wore a demure grey skirt suit with a simple cream shell and nude shoes. I wear suits almost every day at my current firm, but I favour pantsuits.
I have exactly three skirt suits: the grey one, a chocolate brown (but more informal fabric) one, and the plain black one (typical ann taylor and very, very plain). Normally, I would break out a pantsuit for a second interview, but I noticed that the few women I saw there (exactly 3) wore skirts. The men wore full suits. I’m thinking it is more formal, yes?
So, should I just go buy a new skirt suit? I’m open to that — I figure I need another one anyway if I join this place! any suggestions? I am a size 10/12 and quite busty (or “curvy” as my husband says).
Thank you!
note: Someone responded that the black seemed to cheap. then she said something about it being “OP”? not sure what that means? And does plain black look cheap because it doesn’t have embellishments? Because it is Ann Taylor? I’m so confused . . . ugh. I think I am overthinking this, but am a really plain and non-feminine dresser. That also makes me question what jewelry? I usually wear plain pearl or silver studs and m wedding ring (no engagement ring). is that too little?
KLo
Well you spelled favor like you’re not in the US, so I don’t know if the Nordstrom personal shopper recommendation that’s so frequently mentioned on here would work, but that’s my recommendation. If you’re a practicing attorney applying for a job in a skirt suit/full suit office, I think you need at least 2 more if not 7 more suits. But obviously not all of them until you get the job. But absolutely – go to a high-end retailer that you can afford, tell them your budget and goals (I’d ask if the budget was reasonable as well), and ask them to dress you. I think the complaint about the Ann Taylor triacetate suit is that it looks like a man-made fabric. And I’m used to seeing it never quite fitting women right (maybe that’s just my experience). I’m partial to navy in the spring/summer because you can pair it with more Lilly Pulitzer style colors and still look conservative. But your shopper will be able to tell you. And since Nordstrom (maybe?) does the tailoring too, you’ll be all set in one stop! Good luck with the suit and the interview :)
Eponine
I responded before, but I think the black suit is fine. I agree that you should go with a skirt suit. Avoid the nervous law student/unused to wearing a suit look of black suit, white button-down, pearl studs, bun, black pumps. But with a colorful shirt, silk scarf, something that emphasizes your personal style underneath, the black suit is perfectly fine. I wouldn’t buy a new one for an interview.
Shayna
I agree – No need to spend a lot of money for a job that you don’t even have yet (I tend to be a little superstitious about these things in any case) – Keep it conservative, but definitely don’t be 2-D. A light pink shell under the black suit is enough to differentiate from your first job interview, and your demeanor makes all the difference – if you don’t act nervous you won’t be perceived as nervous.
anonymous
black suit is fine, pants or skirt… I don’t think you need to go with skirt just because you saw a few others wear one. And I think a plain black is fine, maybe wear a colorful shirt underneath.
N
I am a skirt suit girl. Actually, I’m a skirt girl in general. Could never see myself wearing a pant suit in court or to an interview.
That said, I think if you feel very comfortable in a pants suit, go with it. You’re in the second interview, this is the interview about your personality and fit. If you are busy being concerned about your outfit, you won’t interview as well.
I think the concern some people have about black suits is that there are so many bad black suits out there – and they are the first suit everyone buys. Black, IMHO, requires perfect, perfect tailoring to look really elegant. That said, I think black suits are great.
Lobbyist
OP means original poster.
Wear the Ann Taylor black suit! It will be fine. Its conservative, appropriate for an interview. Wear a simple shell or top underneath and yes pearl or silver studs and your wedding ring. I don’t think black looks cheap, its looks conservative and appropriate.
But if you are looking for an excuse to go shopping, then have fun! Maybe blue? Or another dress (with jacket) combo? Tan?
However, I think even though you are already experienced a black suit for an interview is still a classic way to go . . .
Good luck.
anonymous
Can anyone suggest some summer-weight gray or black/white blazers? I’ve been on the hunt for a 3/4 sleeve plain or patterned blazer for some time now. I need something that I can pair with black pants, which I wear almost every day, or keep in my office for those days I need to throw something on. It seems like all my blazers are either obviously designed to be worn only as suits, or don’t match black pants (i.e. are navy or a diff shade of black). Please help!!
Eponine
I posted a ton of summer blazers from Talbots in this thread: https://corporette.com/2010/04/22/coffee-break-koobas-piper-bag/
divaliscious11
Anyone else in the late spring slump? I can’t seem to get my mojo back, and I am treading water at work and school. I need to pick it up a notch, though, because work is about to amp up and so is school. Not even sure why I am in the slump. Just got a kick-azz review, and most other stuff is going well. I did not take a spring break, just a couple days, but that is because I am buying a house and am trying to keep everything steady until closing.
I have missed my workouts lately but definitely planning to get back in the gym tomorrow. I hate this…. Any suggestions?
Shayna
Congratulations on the house purchase! I was there last year — If you’re reasonably confident that the closing will go through, start getting excited about decorating your new house. Not sure if you’re planning any major new furniture purchases, but thinking about how you’re going to arrange your furniture, paint colors, etc. is a lot of fun, and accent pieces can be an inexpensive way to rev up your old furniture with a new look – I love Homegoods – they get new stuff in each week and have some great deals –
Denise
You know what’s wrong: you said it in your last sentence. Get back in the gym and push yourself an extra mile (or whatever your all-out workout is). Works wonders for me, especially if I do the workout before work.
Walking Barefoot
Same boat here. Not much interest for work despite zillions of projects to wrap up at the end of the semester. For me, it seems to be spring fever – almost ever year, I experience a big of a motivational slump as the days get longer & weather gets warmer. Maybe of vestige of the academic calendar (to which I am still tied, but now supposed to be working in the summer)?
I’ve been pouring energy into my workouts – trying to get to the gym/ yoga 6-7 days/ week – and also trying to cut my self some slack and recognize that it is spring: more gardening, more cooking, more movie watching. Less full throttle. It seems inevitable when we push ourselves so hard that there will be times we just can’t go as hard.
Also, vitamins? I definitely feel better when I take a B multi and a D along with my regular multivitamin.
KZ
Anyone have any general tips on interview? It’s been months since I’ve had an interview, but I finally got another one for this coming week, and I’m worried I’ve forgotten everything I knew about interviewing. It’s with a small firm (about 30 people), and I’m a graduating 3L.
Also, anything wrong with wearing a light grey suit (this one: http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=15406&vid=1&pid=670876&scid=670876002) or a brown with subtle pinstrip? I put on the jacket of my dark grey suit and realized it really just doesn’t fit me well and I need to get it tailored, and my black suit isn’t a nice wool. I know everyone thinks black or navy for interviews, but a) black really washes me out and b) my other suits just fit better. (I also started wear silk shells rather than button downs, which I suppose people may also find strange, but I feel like they look better under suits than button downs)
KZ
I should add i don’t have time to go buy a new suit–my interview is Wednesday and my exams start Friday. But it’s on my to-do list immediately after finals are over.
Shayna
The link didn’t work
I wear silk shells under my suits as well — Button downs never quite work on me – the curse of the big breasted girl…
CFM
agreed i switched to shells, I could not find a button up I liked that didnt gap
N
32 G – brooks brothers 12 p with some double sided tape works, but you may just have to get them custom made…. best investment ever. I think top heavy women look particularly good in fitted button front shirts, fwiw.
anonymous
wear the light gray suit. Link didn’t work but I always think women look very, very sharp in gray suits, and it makes you stand out from the others in a sea of black suits. I think even light gray is formal enough for interviews. Go for it and good luck!
KZ
oops, I think the parentheses messed it up. here it is:
http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=15406&vid=1&pid=670876&scid=670876002
Lola
I think that gray suit is fine for an interview. Or the brown pinstripe one, if it’s classy-looking, not cheap.
Eponine
Brown or gray is fine for an interview. I think the lightweight wool BR suits are really nice and would be perfectly fine.
Samantha
This should’ve gone on the previous thread about shirts. It’s a repost – I asked this question a while ago but no replies, hope to have better luck this time!
I bought some Brooks Brothers short sleeved non-iron shirts and would like to wear them untucked on top of pants for a more casual look. Background: my office is not super-formal, no suits. I have other short sleeved, shaped shirts that are not too long which I often wear untucked with formal pants. Sometimes with a cardigan.
These BB shirts however (bought online) seem to be cut with coattails though (longer in front and back than sides – dont know if coattails is the right term) so it doesn’t look so good untucked. I think I remember reading that uneven seams always means tucking in, is that the rule?
Or should I get my tailor to make the seam even?
Appreciate any help!
Denise
I wear my BB shirts untucked, sometimes with a sweater or vest over them and the tails sticking out underneath. It’s not a formal look, of course, but it looks much more modern than tucked-in-tight shirts.
Personally, I prefer the look of shirttails to straight for untucked button-front shirts.
N
Untucked button front shirts are one of my personal pet peeves – I think they look sloppy. Or I have too many memories of private school – and getting restriction when my shirt was untucked. I tuck my button front shirts and keep my knit tops untucked.
I wear a lot of the BB shirts – I keep them tucked because I think they look odd tucked in.
anonymous
I think it looks sloppy to not tuck shirts with shirt tails, but I occasionally do this if I’m feeling bloated, but only if I probably won’t be running into anyone important in the hallways… I don’t know about having a tailor make the seam even, that’s an interesting question, it would have to end up looking just right and could easily make the whole shirt too short and too wide… If you do that, let us know how it works out!
Miriam
Has anyone tried button down body suits? I just bought 2 from Victoria’s Secret, and I’m hoping they fit well!
http://www2.victoriassecret.com/commerce/quickOrder.vs?namespace=productDisplay&origin=QuickOrderLink.jsp&event=QuickOrderLink&cgname=OSCQONAVZZZ&prnbr=GM-244873
AN
I wear my BB fitted non iron ones untucked. They’re shaped well and I think they look professional that way. They have shirt-tails, but very very mild curve (or whatever it should be called) back & front.
I don’t assume shirt tails = tuck (or I’d be tucking everything but tees – and I look dumpy/all boobs if I tuck).
brustverkleinerung
obviously like your website but you have to take a look at the spelling
on several of your posts. Several of them are rife with spelling problems and
I find it very bothersome to tell the truth nevertheless I’ll definitely come back again.