Weekend Open Thread

112 Comments

1. Now I’d never say this IRL to my forever single friends, but I think a lot of them have low social intelligence. They seem to not understand how relationships, men (or women), and dating work. The way they discuss these things is like a romcom with rose coloured glasses… they just don’t seem to get the real world. For example they will only go for woke men with abs and like to reference my husband, but the thing is my husband wasn’t like that when I met him, I educated him on social issues and introduced him to vegetables. My friends seem to have this fantasy of a perfect man appearing who bends to their whims and that doesn’t exist. Do any of you notice this pattern among your forever single friends?

   1. omfg – you’re going to have to do a better job at trlling.

      Do some people think that their single friends are waiting too long for Mr. Perfect and not open to Mr. Great Guy? Maybe/maybe not. But they don’t think like this. You’re going to have to work harder at trlling if you want to capture reaction.

      Kat – based on writing style – this is the same trll as the ‘I have twin girls’ one on the moms page.

      1. For sure

   2. My single life is good- a lot better than dating some guy who can’t google or feed himself without a woman to teach him/do it for him. I’m glad your relationship is working out for you. That’s not my cup of tea and I’m fine with that.

      1. Me too. When I was dating my ex, he practically couldn’t go to the toilet without reassurance from me that he wouldn’t fall in. He was equally indeciesive when it came to other life decisions (some big, most not). He would always need MY go ahead to do things, then blame me if it did not work out. That is NOT what we want in a man. Speaking personaly, I want a man who is a leader, and able to support me and our children, not a wimp who wines all the time and expects me to foot the bill for everything. That should NOT be a tough thing to find, but these days it is with all of the young men being so wishy washy and having no desire to work hard if they see me as their meal-ticket. FOOEY on them! I would gladly settle for a bald guy with a beer gut if he had a good heart.

   3. To some degree, yeah. I do acknowledge that I got tremendously lucky meeting and clicking with my husband (a hot, kind, funny guy) in my 20s, but I also know there are things about him that would have been insta-dealbreakers for some of my friends (he’s shorter than me, he didn’t know how to cook and ate exclusively takeout and frozen entrees when I met him, he was making $20,000/year in a PhD program and wanted to stay in academia, which is not an especially lucrative field). Those things never bothered me – I made him learn how to cook and don’t care about money or height (provided there’s physical attraction, which there definitely was). I don’t think all my single friends have standards that are too high but many do.

      1. Oh yea my friends would have never dated my husband. He has a lot of deal breakers, he’s works in law enforcement and doesnt have a degree, GASP!

      2. Same with my husband. I met him in college (I was a freshman, he was a sophomore). Despite playing sports in high school (not super competitively) he didn’t do anything active in college and had gained a freshman 30 and then some, refused to wear a collared shirt, and wore the same gross baseball hat every day. I was drawn to his personality: thoughtful, quick witted, a loyal, loyal friend, hysterical (he often makes me laugh so hard I cry), intellectually curious, not afraid to have a well researched and informed opinion, and did things like called each of his grandmothers every Sunday because he legitimately wanted to talk to them. So, just a good person. But he was a terrible dresser, barely taller than I am and overweight. He was not my ideal from a looks perspective at all. However, now my husband is better dresser than I am (he discovered everlane before I did, wears a suit every day (even though he works in a biz casual environment), and scrounges eBay to find good deals on designer ties (like hermes) and has just about all of his clothes tailored (so everything fits him really well). Oh, and he realized that he was overweight and started going to the gym most days after work and has lost 70 lbs and has made an effort to cook healthier meals for our family. Oh and and – he does 75% of the work around the house, and makes me breakfast every morning AND he organized a surprise birthday for my 30th where he coordinated friends flying in from all over the county. But yeah, at 19 yrs old he would be passed over on a dating app.

         1. This is my husband too. He got dumped by a girlfriend before I met him for being “too boring.” When I met him he was in his late 20s and was overweight and pretty geeky (huge Star Wars and Star Trek fan – and would talk about it; liked computers; read nothing but sci-fi novels, went to comic-book conventions well before that was a hip thing to do, etc.). He had a pretty abysmal sense of style, was a slob around his apartment, and at the time I met him had gone back to graduate school after holding a series of menial jobs and feeling like he didn’t have any real direction in life.
            Now, he still has a little bit of a belly but he’s lost 40 lbs from when I met him; he still has a full head of hair in his late 40s; he makes $200k per year as a software developer (all that time messing around on the computer paid off!); he does easily 50% of the cooking, cleaning and childcare; and our favorite thing to do together is going on 20-mile bike rides on the weekend. He lets me help him pick his clothes and he looks great. We live in a beautiful home, have nice cars, take two big vacations every year, fully fund our 401ks and have money in the bank for our kid’s college. P.S., he is also a champion gardener and very creative and generous in the gardening department.
            The college girlfriend who dumped my husband is on her third marriage.
            I sometimes wonder if she has regrets. Because believe me – she should.

            1. I mean… just because he is a great partner to you doesn’t mean she “should” have regrets about dumping him. You have no idea what their sexual compatibility was like, whether she enjoys 20 mile bike rides or whether she wants a big house in the suburbs. He sounds like a wonderful person and husband and I’m sincerely happy you’re happy, but that doesn’t mean he was the right person for her or that she made a terrible decision dumping him. Many of us believe that being single is better than being with Mr Wrong, even if Mr Wrong is an objectively good person. I’m happily married, but this attitude is very smug married.

            2. Sorry, honey, I’m proud to be a “smug married.” That’s only an epithet for people who wish they were me, or had what I have with my husband, and are bitter because they don’t have it (even though the reason they don’t have it is their own fault, for the most part). After years of reading post after post after post containing the endless moaning and wailing of all the women on this blog who lament being single yet refuse to do anything real about their problem? I feel like it’s something I’m comfortable being smug about. Meghan Markle’s probably pretty smug in her private life because let’s be honest, who wouldn’t want to marry a prince and be mega-rich forever? She’s got something to be smug about. So do I. I don’t apologize for it.

            3. The term “smug married” gets thrown around far too much here. The ex in question is on her third marriage, so obviously, she’s not single until she finds Mr. Right.

               Yes, sometimes people (men and women both) make bad decisions in dating and relationships. There’s nothing Smug Married about pointing that out.

   4. Perhaps you should worry about your own life. Go take a walk outside and enjoy some fresh air and perspective.

   5. So your life is perfect and happy and they are losers waiting for Mr Right to come along but he never will so they’ll just be alone. Ok. So live your happy life, why even worry about them?

   6. I’ll answer your question honestly even though I think you’re trolling or one of those smug-marrieds and look down on us singles. (FWIW I’m not “forever single,” although currently single.)

      Most of my single female friends? No. It’s just that like some other poster said here once, there’s way more great women than good men out there, and by your early thirties, all the good men are taken. It’s hardly “picky” (to use this morning’s term) to ask for a man one finds reasonably attractive; can hold a conversation you both participate in; doesn’t expect the woman to be his housekeeper, cook, and only emotional support system; knows and manages his own finances well; and hopefully has a steady career/income (assuming this is in your thirties and up).

      When my ex and I first started hanging out in our mid-twenties, he was broke AF, unemployed, living in his mom’s basement, ate terrible food, skinnier than a stick and no abs, I was his only emotion support, had no social life of his own, and had no interest in art, history, or other cultural things. When we broke up last year in our early thirties, I had “cultured his ass” (his and my sister’s words), encouraged him to the point he was making friends that were not my friends, he was making a six-figure salary as a financial analyst and living successfully on his own, and I taught him to appreciate good cooking and good-tasting food instead of slathering everything with hot sauce. Welp. His new girlfriend has that improved current version of him, so why shouldn’t I expect anything less for my next boyfriend?

      However… I have one forever-single acquaintance who’s ideal man is basically non-existent in the real world. She at least admits to that she’s ok with being single forver, but it IS annoying to hear that she would like a perfect man prepackaged and delivered to her.

      1. I have lots of great single friends who just have bad luck and I really do feel for them when things don’t work out.

         Not a smug married or a troll. It was a rant after I had just had to sit through another chat with a friend about “can you believe he’s never eaten ceviche or travelled to South America?” and I was just frustrated because yes I can believe it. Plenty of great guys haven’t been able to travel for perfectly legitimate reasons even though they’d love the experience.

      2. Anon100, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head – it may seem that we have higher expectations of our dates now in our mid-thirties, but it’s because we’ve worked and grown etc. for the past decade or so, and would like a partner who has done the same. A 35 year old who can’t take basic care of himself or hasn’t tried to understand other people’s life experiences is very different than a 25 year old in the same boat.

         Forever Single, I’m sorry about your conversation with your friend – it really does sound like it was hard to sit through. I do wish that you’d made your original post about your one friend, though, instead of about “lots” of single women. It hurt to think that someone sees me this way, and it looks like a lot of folks felt similarly.

         1. +100 to the last two sentences

      3. “It’s just that like some other poster said here once, there’s way more great women than good men out there, and by your early thirties, all the good men are taken.”

         This isn’t true at all. The flashy men are all taken by then – high-earning, hot, suave – but the men with good solid jobs, good families, friends they’ve had forever, nice but not fashionplate dressers – it takes women a long, long time to understand that these are the men they should take a second look at.

         It’s also hard to find them. They aren’t picking up women at bars, flirting at the see-and-be-seen galas, or posting very poised photos on dating apps. They are socking away money in their 401ks, spending time with the friends they’ve had forever, joining Rotary, visiting family, and, well, putting up boring but not wrong profiles on dating sites.

         But depending on what your standards are, those men might be “unsuitable.”

         1. This x100000

            1. This, 100%.
               Women who say “there are no good guys left in their thirties” are usually really saying “I didn’t get to Prince Harry fast enough and now he’s married so I’m giving up.” No one will ever be good enough for those women.

   7. Looking for a perfect partner who will bend utterly to their own whims is absolutely a pattern; among the single guys I know.

      The women who are still dating but single seem to contort themselves mightily and then are spectacularly disappointed that the guys are jerks.

2. Yes, I’m single because I lack social intelligence. And I definitely also unfairly expect a man to be a grown human being with empathy for others and a basic understanding of taking care of himself. If only I would just marry the first man that would have me and commit to spending my life molding him into the person I actually want to be with, my singleness could stop bothering my married friends.

   Eyeroll.

   1. I second your eye roll.

3. Did anyone see the news about the big Oberlin settlement for libeling a local bakery for “being longtime racists” after one of the bakery employees intercepted a shoplifter who happened to be black? This was not on my radar until today, but I came across a few articles and I’m kind of dumbfounded that a) Oberlin behaved so awfully and b) that the case actually resulted in a win for the bakery. I really do fear that performative wokeness and mob mentalities are going to hurt progressives in the upcoming election, but I hope cases like this will restore some reasonableness to progressive institutions.

   1. I’m more interested in whether anyone has an insider perspective. Oberlin is a small town; if this place really had a reputation, people know.

      1. Not a student or a super local, but I grew up 45 minutes away – Oberlin is known as one of the most liberal schools in the country. So not surprised at all.

         1. I think anon at 4:08 is asking about the bakery’s reputation.

         2. I saw that on my news feed. I was surprised that people in authority (a dean?) went all in, essentially on Oberlin’s stationery (like not from her hotmail account, but using her official capacity). I am totally, totally surprised that that would fly. My guess is if she had been sending out e-mails for the “First Primitive Baptist Church of Oberlin” they would have shut that down pronto. But I think people just think that they can act however they want?

            I’d be interested if she is still working at Oberlin, who is footing the bill for the likely appeal, and whether this gives parents writing a tuition check a bit of pause. This is a small college. Not sure re endowment size, but the #s and legal spend looks to be huge for them.

   2. Oberlin seems to have made its own circular firing squad over this.

4. Love this pick! Just ordered it in 2 colors, and really hoping it works out!

   1. The chances of me ever becoming a biglaw partner are terribly slim, but, just out of curiosity, what is the ballpark of capital contributions for biglaw partners? Do partners get it back while they’re still with the firm, or does it sit until they retire?

      1. It depends on the firm, but low digit 6 figures is pretty typical. My understanding is that it sits until they retire/leave, but the conditions for getting it back upon leaving vary (and may depend on the terms of leaving). Some places pay interest, but not all.

         1. Thanks!

         2. For us, if you die/retire/go in-house/teach, you get your $ back right away.
            If you go to a competitor, you get it back over time, not sure if that is with interest.

      2. Buy-in at my firm (BigLaw) is $250,000.

5. I posted late on the morning thread re: upcoming endometriosis surgery. No need to start another thread here but if anyone else has experiences to share, I’ll keep checking that post. Thanks! And thanks to the two people that already responded!

   1. Have had this done thrice… the first time I was in bed in pain for about a week, unable to wear anything tight around my abdomen for 3ish weeks, super tired/easily gassed out for about 3 weeks. 2nd time was about 4 days longer for each than the first surgery. 3rd surgery was huge, lots done, so I was on bed rest for almost 6 weeks, no driving for that entire time, it took 6 months to be fully cleared for all activities and where I fit into clothes and such again.

      ONLY see an actual endo expert. Ask how many excisions they’ve done. Anything other than excision is wrong and outdated, do not allow this. (Seek out the center for endo care for updated research on their site -go to them if you can- as they’re the top in the field, so even just reading to get educated there is great and wise.) Expect shoulder pain from the gassing up of your abdomen, expect constip@tion from n@rcotics if you take them (so yes to lots and lots of softeners), prepare your body before and after for healing with healthy foods and good rest.

      sending you hugs and love!

   2. email if you want to further talk, IAmAnEpicWarrior at the mail of g

6. Eeeeeeeek! My normally *very* independent outdoor cat decided, when she came home from the vet this afternoon, not to go back outside. We are having a heat advisory and I think she doesn’t feel well. She had a steroid shot for her mosquito allergy and her nose and eye were feeling bad. She went under the sofa and decided to stay. She’s a very sweet cat and I would love for her to be indoors, but she has never wanted to. I had to come back to work, so I put my indoor cat upstairs and found a litterbox and put her food by the front door. Wish me luck with what I come home to!

   1. Yay! It took about a year to get my formerly feral polydactyl cat inside. He’s been in for a year now and is a great house cat. No litter box issues and always uses the scratching post. He has an ear tip so I’m assuming he spent most of his life outside, but he has transitioned into a cuddly indoor cat. Hoping good things for your girl!

      1. Thanks! So far, so good! She is such a sweet girl and I have had her (completely outdoor) for 3 years. She is also eartipped. I think she just didn’t feel well coming home from the vet yesterday. By last night, she was comfortable in the house. My indoor cat was upstairs flipping out, but she was just chilling with me in the living room. When I went to check on her before going to sleep, she was on a throw in one of my leather chairs. She’s being really good, so I’m hopeful.

7. I posted a few days ago about my team showing assistant appreciation, but they did it by gender, and took the male assistant golfing with them during work hours vs us women got our nails done after hours. Well today was the golf day, the men left at 10:30 am (so it was more than a half day off!) and us 3 women assistants are the only ones in the office now. Still irritated that this happened, but we also just started drinking some leftover wine from an event in coffee mugs. Happy weekend!

   1. That sucks, but are you doing something about it?

   2. Haha! Seems fair.

8. I feel extremely doughy and like I just keep expanding, despite working out (cardio and weights) and watching what I eat.

   I was always petite until a few years ago and my body completely changed. I’ve gained ~30 pounds in 3 years. My arms feel flabby and are staying flabby despite lifting weights. I have a permanent “food baby” type of stomach. I literally hate looking at myself in photos because I just look so dumpy.

   I feel like despite doing everything “right”, I’m not getting thinner or more toned and am in fact getting bigger. I’m not even 30 yet!! I’m horrified that I look and feel so terrible. I’ve gotten my thyroid levels checked and they’re normal.

   Any advice or help?? I can not afford to keep replacing my wardrobe every 6 months because I go up a size.

   1. Universal Standard will exchange sizes if you change sizes within a year — their Fit Liberty line…

      By my late 20s what I ate mattered a lot more than what exercise I did, but that’s me.

   2. Meet with a registered dietician to take a close look at your diet. You can’t out lift a poor diet. For me quantity not just quality is a huge factor. I can still overdo it even when I’m eating clean. 28/29 was the start of middle age metabolism slowdown. I definitely underappreciated being able to eat everything at 16-25.

   3. I could have written this a couple years ago. Here is what I have done: cut calories beyond what you think you do, cut out booze, cardio (HIIT) and weights 5 times a week.

      It’s just not cutting your calories, it’s also what you’re eating. I’m basically just eating lean protein (chicken, white fish, shrimp) and vegetables, a small portion of sweet potatoes. I cut out gluten and dairy.

      Have you tried intermittent fasting?

      Honestly, it’s brutal. You have to really count every morsel of food you’re putting in your mouth (weigh your portions, I have about 100-120 grams of veggies, and 90-100 grams of protein at each meal, no snacks).

      Good luck! It’s really hard.

      1. You don’t “have” to do those things. You can also try accepting that it’s okay to not love your body. Eat a variety of foods, be physically active, don’t diet, and find other things in your life that you’d rather devote this time and attention to. I’m 30 lbs heavier than I’d ideally be (based on appearances), but I practice intuitive eating and my weight has stayed largely the same. I eat ice cream, pizza, and hamburgers whenever I want and I also eat lots of vegetables. Once I stopped trying to force my body to be smaller, I freed up mental and physical energy to pursue the activities I love. I don’t LOVE how my body looks, but I accept it and I love the freedom of not counting calories, not obsessing about my appearance, and not restricting foods to “good” and “bad.”

         1. That’s cool. It’s also cool to want to look and feel your best. Those things do not have to be at odds. I am not going to beat myself up for eating a piece of pizza, but I know I feel better and am happier when I watch my food intake carefully and work out hard, including weight training. I mentally feel better. And that’s ok too.

            1. You can work out hard without dieting. I’m Anon above and I do. Obviously you can do you, but diet culture is so ever-present that I think it’s important for OP to know that there are a lot of us moving away from that and that it can be really, really fulfilling. You don’t have to give up exercise to give up dieting.

               OP, you should also check out the “Down with the Wellness Industry” (or something like that) article that was in the NYT recently. A lot of readers here liked it.

            2. It is cool to want to look a feel your best. But health is important too and diet, weight and exercise impact health. And speaking as a 50+yo, what you do in your 20s and 30s will affect your health as you age.

               It’s really sad for me that my mom – who was always overweight and didn’t eat well – now has dementia that the doctors attribute to her high blood pressure and high cholesterol levels. She’s 85 and otherwise in good health but this is ruining her final years. I don’t want that to happen to me and you may not want that in your future. Heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure are to some extent preventable/ameliorated by good diet, good body weight and exercise. Getting old is hard enough without extra diseases that could potentially hurt you.

         2. So does intuitive eating just mean eating what you want?

            1. Roughly, but it more means that no food is off-limits, that you eat mindfully and pay attention to hunger cues (rather than calorie counts), and that you stop trying to manipulate your body size. The idea is that most people are genetically predisposed to a certain size range and that if you stop fighting your body and restricting your food (either in amount or variety or both), you’ll settle where you’re meant to be and stop experiencing binge/diet cycles. I recommend checking out the book Intuitive Eating for the full picture. It also highlights the fact that dieting is not only ineffective, but counterproductive.

      2. Good for you, not for me. I find it concerning to “cut out” entire food groups and do not find that behavior to be healthful, contrary to the advice of many fad diets and short term anecdata.

   4. Is your blood sugar control also good? I’ve read that 1/3 of American adults are at least prediabetic, and that’s also been true of my friend group as we hit our late twenties.

      1. +1

   5. I feel you! At 28 I realized I needed a change, and it’s only been in the last 5ish months, having just turned 30, that I’ve been seeing results of my efforts, and girl it is HARD. It’s also been hard to maintain, and I haven’t even hit my goal yet!

      Two things really helped me recently:
      1) Spin classes
      2) Low calorie soups (like Campbells chicken noodle, with added spices n such)
      Diet is more important than exercise, but when it comes to exercise, definitely focus on cardio over weights.

      It’s rough transitioning to a lower calorie diet. There were times of the day I was used to snacking, and I had to get used to being hungry during those times, until the hunger wasn’t there or was barely noticeable. For the times I needed to eat, I had to find lower calorie alternatives. Pizza bagel instead of a quesadilla, or miso soup instead of chips, an English muffin instead of a bagel.

   6. I’m in the same boat, about 40 lbs over 5 years and have been slowly improving over the last 6 mths (down 10 lbs, woot!). What helped me:
      1) You have to count calories/track what you eat.You are likely grossly underestimating what you eat (it is super easy especially since a lot of foods state one serving size on the package but package 2 or 3, or even more annoying 1.5). Being in the gym can only do so much.
      2) Intermittent fasting – not sure why it works but it does for me.
      3) Eating cleaner in an intuitive way, i.e. sticking with large amounts of veggies, one lean protein and one unprocessed starch like rice or potatoes for meals,m
      4) Reducing inflammatory foods from my diet (alcohol mostly)
      5) I also started tracking my food intake on itrackbites, which is similar to a free/much lower cost Weight Watchers, but it has Weight Watcher’s previous 5 incarnations as choices (the free eating system that WW has made me gain weight). It also tracks calories and macros (protein, carbs, sodium, etc.) and water
      6) Incorporate fun cardio burning workouts along with my strength training – and doing this cardio as much as I can. More power to the yogis, but yoga, pilates and the like won’t do it. Even with eating right, what moved the needle faster for me was straight cardio burn because I sit in an office all day. I love dance classes and loathe running.

      1. The point of intermittent fasting is to experience low insulin levels. Every time we eat something, some insulin is produced, so if we snack throughout the day (or eat right before and after bed) the insulin doesn’t get enough chances to go down. (And insulin converts blood glucose into fat and makes it harder to burn fat for energy, so if we want to lose or maintain weight, it’s ideal to take a break from raised insulin levels.) I’m guessing people also usually eat less when they’re fasting since (a) they’re spending less time eating, (b) too much insulin can make you hungry again.

   7. Are you on the Pill? It made me gain weight continuously. When I quit it to TTC, 28 pounds (the 13 I’d gained plus 8 more) magically melted off.

      1. +1 I am apparently very sensitive to hormones and lost 10lbs when I stopped using Mirena (which many people have no side affects from)

   8. It might be time to get tested for PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome). Are you experiencing any changes in body hair? Or losing hair on your head? Is your period regular? Hugs, I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      1. +1 to the PCOS, though I am still annoyed my f’in dermatologist was the one who diagnosed me with it. Honestly, I had a HUGE blind spot and had alllll of the symptoms but until he said, ‘gee, I really think it might be PCOS’ it didn’t click. And it was a tremendous ‘oooooohhhh’ moment. Spirolactone really helped the scale move for me, but I started off on a super low dose and gradually tapered up to a (still pretty small) dose.

   9. I’m not one for elimination diets, but maybe try something like Whole 30 in case you have some food sensitivities. Intermittent fasting helps too. I basically skip breakfast and eat between 11-8.

   10. If you are otherwise healthy, this is a food issue and a little about what type of exercise you do.

       Weights and strength training will absolutely help with this. However, food is the primary cause here. What are you eating? Are you measuring? A good example I’ve used before is that a granola bar, even the “healthier” ones like LaraBars (with minimal ingredients) pack a TON of carbs, that you’d be better off/ingesting less macronutrients eating a delicious muffin. Portion sizes are so wildly off that it takes time and measuring to see the desired results and re-train your eyes. I will generally get a kids meal if I get a treat or junkier food and it’s still too much food.

       I love counting macros and work with a coach who does this for a living and have seen awesome changes to my body composition. I also do Crossfit. It allows me flexibility, but also empowered me to fuel my workouts correctly and also know what my body is craving and maximize my treats (yes, I eat fut-fall ice cream and all the delicious foods available in my city). If I didn’t do either of these, I’d be about 40 or 50 pounds heavier. I was putting on about 5 lbs. a year after graduating high school, even though I was doing cardio and eating “healthy.”

       Also, a weekend of “treats” can pack on the pounds in a year or two. How are you eating on your weekends?

   11. Stronger U. You track macros — fat, protein and carbs — and send it once a week to a coach. I’m quite active and have no trouble with exercise but its the food part that gets me. I’m down 10 plus lbs and holding. I like it.

9. For anyone who went to private/ivy law school pre recession, do you happen to remember your all in cost for law school say in the 2002-2005 era? I went to Penn. Looked up prices now just out of curiosity as my whole office was talking about loan forgiveness etc this afternoon, and I was floored that Penn now lists the all in cost as 94k/year. Am I crazy or was it around 55k around 2005? Anyone remember what it was at comparable schools around that time? (I realize it can be a bit cheaper than this if you live in cheaper places etc. but just wondering about stated costs).

   1. Does “all in” include living expenses?

      1. Yes.

      2. College costs are crazy — and what kills me is that every time I go to an alumni event I hear how “80% of people pay much less.” (My parents paid full price, apparently stupidly.)

         1. My parents paid full price at my Ivy because they scrimped and saved and had ~$250k in my college fund, despite earning less than half that amount combined. It kills me that if they’d been less willing to deprive themselves to save for me, I would have gone to college at a significant discount.

            1. Not necessarily. My parents had about the same income as yours and we got ZERO financial aid at Ivys despite them not having significant savings (their income had increased recently before we went to college). Those schools misrepresent how much financial aid they give out to middle class families.

            2. That’s just absurd; there’s no guarantee of that.

            3. You don’t have to believe me, but that’s literally what happened. We received an aid package from the school based on income that was very generous (not a full ride but well over half the total cost, something like 75% of the tuition in grants). And then they explained that it was reduced, dollar for dollar, by my parents savings all the way down to zero.
               For this reason, DH and I are prioritizing our own retirement savings (which are generally protected from the financial aid calculation). We’ll help with college out of leftover savings and current income, which shouldn’t be too challenging because we expect to pay our mortgage before our oldest is 18. But you better believe I’m not socking $250k away in the bank for kids’ college just so elite private schools have a reason to deny us aid.

      3. My law school didn’t have an on-campus living option.

   2. Interestingly enough, UPenn publishes that online back to 1900!
      https://archives.upenn.edu/exhibits/penn-history/tuition
      For 2005 –
      Law:
      Tuition: $34,920
      General Fee: $1,526
      Technology Fee: $670

      1. I did find that! But can’t recall at all what room and board was? My guess is something like $900/mo for the law dorm which you rented for 10 months. So that would put it all at 46,000. Though I could totally be making up $900/mo and confusing it with someplace else I’ve lived so I wanted to see if others had a different recollection.

   3. I started in 2002 and graduated in 2005, so the exact time frame you reference. I didn’t go to Penn, but went to private, top-25 law school. My actual tuition was right at $25K a year, plus another $3000 or so for books. I honestly have no idea what they calculated for living expenses. I had a “full” scholarship and recall that I had to pay some out of pocket on top of the scholarship for the year I lived alone in a condo, but actually “made” money the years I had roommates.

   4. During that time the stated room and board was:
      Average room and board rate in the University’s residence halls: $8,642
      Though I guess most law students lived off campus?

      1. Missed this part! Thanks. Most did live off campus but I stayed in the dorms because they were literally 1/2 block from the law school.

         1. I’ve done some pretty deep dives into my own university (& employer)’s digital archives but we don’t have anything like that… it was neat to find it so quickly. Yay Penn! (I grew up fairly nearby and several acquaintances went in the late 90’s but it was always financially out of reach). Awesome school other than that one unfortunate Wharton grad ;-)

   5. That’s insane! I went to a private (non Ivy, but top 25) law school from 2007-2010 and I think my last year the tuition was about $35k and the all-in cost (suburbs of a major US city) was estimated at around $50k.

   6. Yes, “all in” — i.e., total amount borrowed for tuition & living expenses — was around 55K-60K for urban private law school in the mid-00’s.

   7. Tuition at my T14 school went from $27.5 in 2005 to $40 in 2007. It’s now $64 (seriously, WTF).

   8. HYS, something like $50k/year including living expenses in the 2005 range.

      1. +1, also HYS and I believe it was low 50s all in. Still paying off my student loans 13 years later….

10. So, what are some good drugstore brand (read: inexpensive) lipsticks that people like that do not have parabens?

    1. Off the top of my head, Burts Bees comes to mind. But not 100% sure about the parabens.

11. So, I read this morning’s thread from the mom whose kid is getting tested for autism. I started reading more about autism in women and it sounds a lot like me. I have Type 1 Bipolar Disorder and PTSD but I’m very high functioning and generally am fine. I’m married and overall have a stable, happy life. But there have always been things about myself that I wonder about. When I see numbers together (like a license plate or a phone number), I add them in my head and it really bothers me if they’re not divisible by the # of numbers. I do something similar with letters. I’ve done this my whole life and have mentioned it here and there to psychiatrists without much traction. It doesn’t bother me very much but I know it’s weird. As a child, I was obsessively passionate about horses and equestrian sports. I’ve always needed a lot of solitary time and I don’t enjoy group work. I have a hard time reading faces but I’m very empathetic and I do understand other people’s emotions and I understand jokes. I’m not looking for any intervention or to make changes to my life… but it would be so interesting if I had some form of autism and it explained some of my weirdness. If there are any women on here with familiarity with this, I’d love to hear from you.

    1. Totally. I feel ya. School was hell because I was a weirdo until high school, when at least I was a useful weirdo. I still struggle with being *way* too literal. My unasked for nickname in gradeschool was “Data” from Star Trek… which I didn’t understand because I wasn’t into that but could tell you everything about Star Wars, before that was cool. Way before that was cool. None of the present diagnoses were around when I was growing up, and it’s unlikely I’d have been spotted anyway. I was smart enough that I got through classes without disruption and the ones I had a passion for had the teachers who were my salvation from other students’ torments. My folks were fairly oblivious but I remember plenty of times when they whooped me for being “smart” and I had no clue what they were talking about. I’m a bit of a loner now, which is fine by me… no complaints there. Dunno if that would have worked out differently had there been an early intervention or not. I don’t really trouble myself thinking about ‘what if’. I have my small circle of people and that’s ok by me.

    2. I’m really skeptical of a lot of what was said on the morning thread. Autism is a lot more than just being quirky and socially awkward. I’m also very bright, very quiet and introverted, have always struggled with social interactions (I don’t have problems reading other people so much, but tend to struggle with participating in the conversation, particularly in groups where I find it hard to know how/when to interject in a conversation I often don’t have much interest in – I’m much better one-on-one). I was definitely a weird, nerdy kid in school who had almost no friends, but I never acted out in the classroom and did exceptionally well academically. I went to a top college where pretty much everyone was a nerd, made lots of close friends and had several long term romantic relationships, one of which resulted in marriage and kids. I’ve never had trouble getting or keeping jobs though I think it’s very possible a stellar resume and references make up for less-than-stellar interview skills. I did get told once by a recruiter that the feedback from the first round interview was that I was a strong candidate but needed to make better eye contact – I focused on that in the second round interview and got the job.

       Perhaps I would be diagnosed with Asperger’s if I were a kid today? But I totally get sarcasm, have always been very imaginative and creative, and believe I’m very empathetic, and like I said, I’ve had no struggles academically, romantically or in the workplace. After the discussion this morning, I did some googling and it sounds to me like there still has to be a lot more than being an awkward loner to really be considered Asperger’s. I think a lot of people feel bad about their kids being socially awkward and think a label will help.

       1. There are a variety of disorders that fall on or near the spectrum. The neuropsychiatric evaluation isn’t just a clinical diagnosis; there are more objective components (timed performance tests, IQ tests, etc.). They only diagnose if there’s some kind of impairment (no struggles, no Dx). So they’re really not diagnosing people who are just quirky (especially at a time when there’s still resistance to diagnosing women at all). Many high IQ people are quirky and socially awkward by “middle of the bell curve” norms (and some may need IEPs to have their needs met in school), but they’re not therefore getting diagnoses. I’m not sure whether diagnoses/labels are always helpful, but I’m skeptical that we’re overdoing it at present. I do think that there’s a stigma attached to labels given what disability scholars call a medical/deficit perspective.

          OP has a Biplar Dx, a PTSD Dx, and sees psychiatrists. In that context, it could be important for her clinicians at least to have some idea whether her neurological baseline was different to begin with. A typical CBT psychotherapist is happy to spend hours or years inadvertently trying to CBT someone into neurotypicality if they don’t realize what’s up! Some therapists and psychiatrists will also try to treat sensory defensiveness as an anxiety symptom rather than a neurological symptom (or a meltdown as a panic attack, etc.). Sensory overstimulation isn’t a “light phobia” or a “loud noise phobia,” so it’s not going to respond well to a cognitive behavioral approach.

          I think the most common misdiagnosis for women on the spectrum is borderline personality disorder. Fortunately, DBT skills are good for both ASD and for BPD, but talk therapy can really get off base if the therapist thinks there’s a bunch of manipulative subtext going on that just isn’t there. So my perspective is that the labels (or at least a suspicion on the part of a good clinician) can be helpful when dealing with the world of psychology and psychiatry.

    3. I posted earlier- I took seven years of driving lesssons to learn to drive. Even now there are days (fewer than there used to be) where it rains unexpectedly or there is construction on my route and I pull over, park car and walk home. People tell me I’m high functioning all the time but I am incredibly reliant on consistently, respect for my schedule as I struggle a lot of the time.

       Autism isn’t a cute quirky thing to make you feel different. I’m not ashamed of who I am but I have to work very hard to deal with a world that was not designed for people like me with often very little understanding.

12. Someone posted a few days ago about wanting a full time teleworking job with the government. I have one such position, but only after working there 4 years and doing very well. I’m a litigator, so I still have to fly back to DC a few times a year for argument. I think the key is to work in the office first and do very well, then pivot to a telework role. I don’t know anyone who has done the telework thing right off the bat.

13. I posted a couple weeks ago asking for advice for my work trip to the Dakotas. Thank you for all of the tips! The external battery pack was especially helpful. I had a wonderful time, and appreciated the help!

14. Not the hottest topic for the weekend, but would love some suggestions and ideas on making my time narratives sound more polished. I am trying to use action verbs that show that I am adding value (I’m stepping into that midlevel range, still kind of jr.).

    At my last review we discussed that I should be getting a bit more efficient on things, but that my partners did not yet have concerns on that since I am still learning, and that while my realization rate is at a normal range, they’d like to maximize it as I move up. No one has said anything about time entries, but I want to try to minimize write-offs that may otherwise be kept on the bill if I can better portray what is going on.

    A few notes: I keep my narratives up and do my time almost daily most months, but the lack of depth/variety in my narratives is due to being a transactional attorney who reviews and revises transaction documents and researches regulatory filings required for the transaction for a living, ha. Block billing is allowed by all the clients I work for, so partners like longer entries, but not too detailed. I may also work on the same task several times for a transaction–turn of documents; updating schedules.

    How do I some better action verbs/don’t do so much detail that partners ask me to edit the entries?

    1. Draft for first draft, revise for second draft, implement client input for changes following a client call, and respond to proposals from for changes in a draft from the other side?

    2. Caveat I am a litigator who deals mostly with insurance companies so our billing styles may be drastically different but a go-to narrative for me is “review and analyze ___ in preparation of ___”, for ex: review and analyze deposition transcript of Dr. Acula in preparation of drafting motion for summary judgment. If I’m drafting something or reviewing something pursuant to a specific statute or rule, I cite the rule in my billing entry. If I’m doing something at the direct request of the client, I include that in the billing entry. Also, in my experience, the longer the narrative the less likely it is to be cut.

       1. This is good advice, but many of the carriers I work with will not allow more than one verb. So “Review and analyze” gets flagged, but “Analyze” alone does not.

15. If you really want your head to hurt, I looked through my papers not too long ago and confirmed that I fully financed three years at a now top 20 (then top 40, maybe) law school in the early 1990s for under $80K all in (tuition, books, fees, plus off-campus rent, utilities, food and gas). Current pricing is $52,500 for tuition and fees, so with living expenses, a single year now costs as much as all three years did then.

    I do not know how people do it now absent a really large scholarship.

16. I have a question re: intermittent fasting. I’m interested in trying IF. I make daily green smoothies before work every morning, is there a way to work that in to IF? This probably sounds dumb but I’ve never made my smoothies and then waited to drink them, would it make sense to make one at say, 8am and then not drink it until 11am?

    1. The fasting can happen at any part of the day. Drink your juice, lunch, then no dinner. Any x number if hours fast is a fast

    2. A little late but in case you have notifications – I’ve done this pretty successfully by bring it to work in a blender bottle (the ones with the little wire ball to shake up) – not as good as when fresh blended but pretty good anyway!

17. Anyone have a referral code or other discount code for Rothys? Planning to order my first pair this weekend and the older codes I found posted didn’t work for me. Thanks!

    1. Here you go!

       https://share.rothys.com/x/iYcAsy

       You’re going to love them!

    2. Here you go! https://share.rothys.com/x/OWRnEp

    3. For anybody still looking, here’s another referral code. https://share.rothys.com/x/Dt3Hb2

       Size up in the point!

18. Hey everyone. We received a very young puppy from a former client (not by choice they basically just left it at the office next door with a letter saying it was for us). Anyway after several weeks we have had the dog assessed and it’s not appropriate for our family (young kids) but would do well as a workingor agility dog. Dog will be gone to it’s new home in a few days. I’m completely devestated. Every day we had dog I felt that we were failing this dog and I feel like we are failing dog again. Anyway just wanted to share.

    1. You’re not failing the dog by finding it a home where it will be happiest. You and your family are very kind for taking the dog in the first place, giving it your best effort, and then finding it a good permanent home.

       1. +1 And the person at fault here is the person who left you an unsolicited puppy.

          Not every dog is right for every environment and you made the best of a terrible situation that you did not create. Keeping a high energy dog whose needs you cannot meet (especially when you have young children) is a recipe for disaster. I can 100% understand you being sad, but please know that you did the right thing.

          And your former client is [insert various colorful and NSFW words to describe a really horrible person]!!

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