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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Marla Top

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This top looks like a versatile, elevated basic. I like the elbow-length sleeves and am always a huge fan of soft modal fabric. I think the slim fit would be gorgeous with an A-line, printed skirt. I’d also wear it with lighter-colored suits this summer. And maybe on weekends with a maxi skirt. OK, fine, I’d wear it with just about everything. It’s $325 at 11 Honoré and available in sizes XL–2X. Mara Hoffman’s site also has it in XXS–2X. (NB: The 11 Honoré website says that it should be dry cleaned, but the Mara Hoffman site says that it can be hand washed!) Marla Top This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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331 Comments

  1. Do any of you have experience with an extractor fan + recirculating fan hood setup in the kitchen vs. a full-on, vents to the outside fan hood above the stove? I only have a recirculating fan hood right now, but am looking at places that have the recirculating hood + extractor fan in the ceiling (the thing that looks like a bathroom fan). Does the extractor fan actually help or should I be trying to get a place with a proper venting fan hood?

      1. Own, but it’s a condo in a giant building, so I’d be stuck with whatever is there (can’t convert the recirculating to a vents-to-the-outside hood for example).

    2. I’d probably prefer something that vents sot he outside, but I can’t say that it would be a dealbreaker for me either way. I will say that whether or not this is a requirement is likely specified in your city/town building code, so check that if it’s something you’re concerned about. It should be something that a home inspector can look for (and you should get a good inspection, even for a condo. Make sure the inspector looks at the common areas!)

    3. How does a “proper venting fan hood” differ from an extractor fan?

      My kitchen doesn’t have a vent to the outside, just the range hood fan that blows air from below it out the front of it towards the ceiling. It is fine, there is no problem that needs solved. My childhood home had this plus a fan in an exterior kitchen wall (not right next to the stove, but about 8 feet away) that vented directly to the outdoors. We never used it for venting anything cooking-related, but more for air flow when it was stuffy indoors.

      1. So this is new to me too (and judging by the responses, doesn’t seem too popular elsewhere either), but here’s the options I’ve seen: Recirculating fan only (what you describe you have now); Recirculating fan + what is basically a bathroom venting fan in the ceiling; range fan hood above the stove that pulls air to the outside. The bathroom-like vent is less powerful than the proper range fan hood that pulls air outside, but I have no idea how less effective it is. I should also note that in a lot of these condos, you can’t really open the windows all the way since they are high up.

        I have the recirculator now and it is miserable at dealing with anything even remotely strong smelling or smoky (like searing a steak or making heavily spiced foods). I cook a lot and this is important to me.

    4. IDK but in my city, fan type is driven by the heat output of the stove / cooktop below it.

    5. Every apt I’ve ever lived in has had the microwave/hood recirculator- it’s fine. In my house reno I had an outside vent put in and rarely use it.

      1. Same. I’ve lived in my current house for almost a year and I’ve used my outside vent maybe once?

        1. Currently live in a house and like to cook but I don’t like lingering cooking odors. Our fan vents outside. I use it several times a week, including to control the steam coming off of a boiling pot of water to keep it from collecting on the kitchen cabinets and damaging the finish.

          1. If the steam from a boiling pot of water can damage the finish of the cabinets, they don’t seem like the right finish for a kitchen.

            OP – I have never, in my life, turned on the stove fan for boiling water.

      2. My current house is the first I’ve had with a microwave/recirculator and I hate it with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. The first time I used I damn near pepper sprayed myself while making a curry. It’s close enough to eye level that it’s worthless at best and painful at worst. Fortunately the stove is right next to the back door, so as often as not, I just open the back door.

    6. Depends on how much you cook – and the types of things you cook. If you cook on high heat (e.g. searing steak) and/or make smelly dishes, then I strongly recommend the vent-to-outside option. Recirculators can only do so much.

  2. Where do you shop for bras? I need something new and don’t have easy access to physical stores to actually try things on, so I’m looking for shops with a big online selection and free/easy returns. I know Nordstrom is an obvious choice, but what else is out there?

    1. Amazon. I’ve had good results with the bras that have hundreds/thousands of four-star-plus reviews. Measure yourself for accurate fit, using the guidelines in /r/abrathatfits.

    2. I buy all of my bras at Soma. But you really need to try on first to see which of their bras works best for you. I suppose you could order a variety and send back what doesn’t work.

    3. Where are you located? There are often non-chain stores that have great staff (which is the thing you most need when bra-shopping).

    4. I tried Third Love and they are the best bras I have ever owned, with the caveat that I wasn’t buying anything amazing before. I wore Victoria’s Secret most of my life until I got pregnant and after nursing, I was a 36A (VS doesn’t even sell that size) so I tried a bunch of department store bras, including ordering one from Nordstroms, but had various issues with them (visible through my clothes, cups gaped, straps slipped, etc.). I bought 3 bras from Third Love and like all of them (the Tshirt bra is my favorite). The cups mold to you so there is no gaping, the straps never slip, and you can’t see them through my clothes.

      1. 36A as well, its always tricky to find in store for some reason. Thanks for the tip!

    6. Redd1t a bra that fits, a measuring tape, and amazon prime with free returns got me a better fitting bra than Nordstrom ever did.

    8. bloomingdales. they have free shipping and returns, and i have found their mail in return process to be super easy. (we don’t have a physical store in my state). what i did was used bloomingdales.com to find the brand and bra that i liked, and then stocked up from bare necessities.com (with more discount codes).

    9. For larger cup sizes, I love Bravissimo. They’re a British company but they have a US catalog. All my favorite bras are from there. Great support and very flattering.

    11. Honestly, Talbots has a new line (just three choices – sometimes less really is more) and I REALLY like their balconette. It moves the girls to the middle so you look trimmer up top. (Some bras have wideset cups that I feel like make me look bigger than I am.) It’s very smooth under t-shirts. Free shipping and returns on undergarments.

  3. Visiting Hong Kong for the first time in a month. Looking for recommendations for things to do, eat and see but most importantly looking for a nicer hotel that’s not outrageously expensive. Any tips and ideas appreciated!

    1. The JW Marriot was great and not too pricey. See the giant budda on Lantau Island.Take the cable care not the bus to it. Disneyland is fun. Interesting to see from an Asian angle.Chi Lin Nunnery in Kowloon is interesting. The ferry ride to Kowloon itself is fun. Have high tea at the Peninsula Hotel in Kowloon along the harbor.It will be hot (tropical climate).

      1. The Buddha is great but check that the cable car has reopened (I hiked, but the cable car was closed when I was there in April). Also, the Buddhist restaurant in the monastery at the Buddha is really, really good.

        Also loved Chi Lin, and don’t miss the traditional botanical garden across the street. Would also recommend walking up the Peak and taking the tram down (the wait to take the tram up is often insane).

    2. I stay in the JW Marriott every time I go, in part because the executive floor lounge has breakfast, tea, afternoon snacks, and wine daily. It’s good, too. HK is a great food city, but I appreciate knowing I have a home base and don’t have to figure out every single meal every day if I don’t want to.

      It’s also located essentially on top of a subway station, which is nice.

      1. Excellent point on the executive floor lounge. You have to do that. The views are fantastic and it more than pays for itself.

  4. Can anyone recommend a carry-on, rolling suitcase that they like? Or, are there particular features I should look for in choosing one? I don’t travel a ton so I don’t want to spend a lot of money but I would like something that works well. Thanks!!

    1. I love the ones from surf brands (mine is Roxy). They often have a rigid bottom half and soft top half with a clamshell formation, which makes them really easy to pack and also flexible depending on the luggage limits of the airline you’re flying on that occasion. Mine have been really durable.

      1. Seconding this. I’m a frequent traveler, often in rain/snow/mud, and my Travelpro has held up shockingly well. I’ve had it for five years and it still looks new (I do wipe it down with a wet washcloth now and then, but that’s it).

        1. +1 I have been business traveling for 30 years and Travelpro is the best suitcase I have owned.

        1. +1. I have the Crew line (soft-sided) in two sizes–21-22″ is the largest bag I ever use, even if traveling for weeks. For most shorter trips, I’m fine with the one that fits under a seat (brief bag, I think). Both have worn like iron and look professional if I need to drag my luggage to a meeting.

    3. Lightweight and hard sided is the way to go. Be careful about sizing – some brands still sell rollers slightly over the maximum size permitted by most airlines. You never know when the gate attendant is going to be rigid about making people use the sizer.

      I personally use the Tumi lightweight continental carry on, but it’s not a budget pick. I have a 25-50% travel schedule so it’s worth it to me to have a really sturdy, reliable bag.

      1. +1 to both the hard sided and the sizing, also note that domestic and international carry on sizes are not the same. I have a size adjustable Briggs & Riley carry-on. Also not a budget pick, but I love it

      2. I have the small rigid Away and find that it fits in the overhead bin (and I bought it for this purpose) EXCEPT on 2×2 seating on smaller planes, where I always have to gate-check.

        Does anything really fit in a 2×2 overhead bin (other than a legal pad???). If there is, tell me about it. This is my one reluctance at getting a hard-sided wheelie bag.

        1. Nothing fits on those little propeller planes. I usually board those on the tarmac, and they have a wheelie thing like a big bookcase on the tarmac behind the plane for your bag. Then when you get off the plane the wheelie thing is right there to pick up your bag. I actually kind of like it. It feels like flying in the 1950s.

        2. I put my rollaboard on a 2×2 plane’s overhead bin this morning! Samsonite MightLight Spinner, 21″ — I was pleasantly surprised.

      1. +1 for Away. I have one of the original versions of the Carryon but I absolutely love it.

    5. Follow-up question – why do people prefer hard-sided carry-on suitcases? Isn’t it even harder to get those, as opposed to soft-sided bags, to fit in the overhead bins?

      1. The idea is that you can’t overstuff a hard-sided suitcase the way you can a soft-sided bag. It either fits or it doesn’t, so you’re not the person trying to wedge the soft-sided one above the seats. But if you’re not a heavy packer, I prefer soft-sided.

        1. Right, the hard sided bags compress your stuff more so instead of bulging like a cloth bag, they stay in their nice compact shape.

          They are also lighter than cloth bags.

      2. Some mystery liquid got on my cloth soft-sided carry-on wheelie and I could never get it out. It was oily and smelled and was dark (forever theoretically smearing against my other top-of-closet items).

        Now I have something I can wipe clean.

  5. I just came back from a wonderful vacation, and the post-vacation blues are so real that I wonder if it was worth it to take the vacation in the first place! I know sometimes it helps to start thinking about the next vacation, but due to our schedules it’s hard to foresee how we could manage it anytime soon. Any tips for getting over post-vacation depression?

    1. Is there something in your life that is unusually stressful? If your boss is terrible or your home needs a lot of repairs, then it’s hard to return to those things.

    2. I’m a manager and what I try to do and what I tell all of my direct reports to do is block the day before your vacation and the day you come back so that you have no appointments/meetings on those days. For the day before the vacation, you can spend the entire day getting everything squared away so that you don’t leave in a panic. But to me, the day you come back is the most important because it gives you a day to cull through your email and get caught up without plowing into something new. I know that might not be an option for everyone, but that’s what I try to do and I encourage my direct reports to do the same. This helps with the after-vacation blues because (IMO) it lets you ease back into work, have lunch with friends/coworkers, get caught up on your email and then the following day it tends to be easier to acclimate. Just a thought….I know it doesn’t help you today.

    3. I 100% feel you. Sometimes I think I only work to travel. What helps me is planning a fun event/party with friends that you haven’t seen since before the vacation. It helps remind you that you have a good life wherever you are even if you have to return to the mundane. Also as it’s summer, lots of fun things to add to a calendar: rooftop happy hours, walks after work, hikes on the weekend, camping, pool days, beach/lake days, etc. Sometimes I think what I enjoyed most about a vacation was the ability to be outdoors so planning outdoor activities do me a world of good.

    4. When possible I try to plan my vacations so that I return on Friday or I schedule an extra day off, to give myself time to readjust and get organized at a relaxed pace. I find it tends to help.

    5. Would it help to take smaller trips in between the bigger ones? You can go somewhere closer, for a long weekend, for example this upcoming 4th of July, or Labor Day weekend. I tend to visit friends who have moved away on these short trips because I miss them and having their company for a couple of days is a real pick-me-up.

  6. Lately I’ve been drawn to what I’ve seen called “traditional modern” decorating style and I’m wondering whether anyone has blogs or magazines to recommend for inspiration (I find Pinterest overwhelming and would prefer to reduce screen time anyway). I’m basically looking for ways to incorporate my family antiques (mostly furniture, some art and decorative items) into a functional modern life and I want my house to look like it has history, but not like it’s in a museum. I am frugal and would like to incorporate pieces from IKEA or thrift stores for what I am hoping will be an eclectic but classic look. Any tips?

    1. I don’t watch it (really) but I like HGTV magazine. Not every article is going to be your style, but I find it pretty realistic, in a good way. Hope that helps.

    4. My style sounds pretty similar and I find Traditional Home magazine to be pretty good for this; it’s basically very classic styles done with money.

    5. Home decor blogs are my first blog love. I’ve paired down a lot, but I love Chris Loves Julia and Emily Henderson. Chris Loves Julia style sounds really similar to what you’re going for, and they use a mix of high and low cost.

    6. I find Laurel Bern Interiors blog to be educational and usually a fun read too. I used the search function and got a post titled “The trick to mixing modern and traditional furniture. “

  7. Paging Doughy from last Friday and others who have posted recently about not being able to lose weight. I didn’t see this comment, but have your hormones tested. I was in the exact same spot – felt very sluggish and just couldn’t lose weight even though I was eating right and exercising. I had my hormones tested and my testosterone was so low, it didn’t even register! It’s taken me a good 6 months to get it where it should (with pellets) but now I’m feeling a lot butter better, more energy, the weight is coming off (not magically – but it is coming off) and my desire to garden has increased 10x (which has husband jubilant). So give it a try…also my thyroid was out of whack so they fixed that too.

    1. Question: was the test performed with saliva samples or by having blood drawn?

        1. Thanks. I’m doing that now and it’s a saliva test. Wishing me randy thoughts soon ;)

  8. Looking for some advice. In meetings when our boss describes what he wants done a man at my level will turn to me in front of everyone and say “Anon, to do this you would need to do A,B and C “. The thing is, I already know exactly how to do it. I have worked at the company longer and been in my position longer than he has. I do not need his advise and often what he says is wrong. No one knows that though. He is a tall good looking 40 year old man who speaks and acts with 100% confidence. He comes off as helpful, knowledgeable, and a leader. I am a women in my late 50’s and feel pretty much invisible. It sounds weak/*itchy to say. “Yes I already knew that”. He appears to be genuinely trying to be helpful but it’s at my expense. How would you combat this.

    1. “Yes John, I am very experienced in doing this.” “John, I am well aware of how to do this.”

    3. Uggh.
      Straight up say “name, When I need your input I will ask for it. Thanks.”

    4. Three options, in order of preference:
      1. Preempt him. When you are assigned work in the meeting, speak up before the man does and say, “OK, I will do A, B and C.”
      2. Deadpan “thanks” at the helpful advice, then turn to boss and acknowledge the goal and timeline. If applicable, say you’ll have a project plan ready by
      3. Talk to the helpful man outside the meeting and tell him that you would like him to stop mansplaining to you in the meetings.

    5. Pointedly wink at him so every one can see it and say, “Thanks, Mansplainer. I got this.”

      I mean, I guess you could substitute his actual name instead of “Mansplainer” but YMMV.

      Alternative: say, “Thanks, Mansplainer, would you mind emailing that all to me and cc-ing my boss to make sure my pretty lil’ head gets it all? Thanks so much, hon.”

      1. Yup….that’s exactly what I do – let them know you’ve got this and say it with confidence. It’s a nice way to make sure they get the message…all you need to say is “Thanks, I’ve got this”.

    6. If he really is trying to be helpful, perhaps talk to him about it one-on-one the next time it happens. “Hey, John, I know you are trying to be helpful, but when you told me how to do my job step-by-step in front of the others, I feel like it makes me look like I don’t know what I’m doing and need someone at my own level to explain it to me–which I don’t. Next time, if you have suggestions, can we discuss them offline?”

      1. As glorious as some of these other options sound, I second this idea. Then if you ever need to escalate the issue, you can refer back to the entirely good faith, 1:1 conversation you already had with him which he subsequently ignored.

        I don’t think you should point out your seniority, as The Original suggests below. Ask A Manager points out that when people do this, it tends to make them look insecure and overly invested in status. But again, if you ever have to double down, you would be able to say something like “I’ve been doing this for X years.” It can go without saying that X is longer than his tenure.

      2. I agree with talking to him on the side first before a meeting interaction/confrontation. He may have no idea he is doing this.

    7. I’d be on the ready at the next meeting so that, as soon as the speaker stops or pauses, I’d look at John and pleasantly say, “to do that, John, you need to do x, y, and z” before he has a chance to speak. If it sounds the same in tone, it’ll come off as you doing the same “nice” thing he does to you, but maybe he’ll get the point when he feels it. (If not, whatever he says in response can become what you say in response to him.)

      Otherwise if that’s too loud/confrontational for you, I’d pull him aside and say, “I appreciate your team spirit but when you explain something to me in meetings, it makes you seem confused about my role here. I just wanted to clarify that we are considered equal in level and I have seniority. I wanted to make sure you were aware so you don’t continue to look confused in the meetings. That said, I am always happy to clarify something said in meetings if you need guidance!” Maybe then he’ll see it as behavior that makes him look unaware or confused rather than behavior that looks helpful (at best) or undermines your authority and status (at worst). Then, if he does it again, I’d email him and cc the boss and HR. “After pulling you aside to let you know that your need to repeat/explain tasks during meetings is unnecessary and inappropriate, you’ve continued to do this. As someone equal in status and more advanced in seniority, I am not sure whether this behavior is intentionally meant to undermine me because of our gender disparity or if you need further guidance on this for another reason. Please speak with Boss and/or HR to obtain whatever you need so that this does not happen again.”

      (Caveat, I tend to work solo because this sort of office behavior makes my skin crawl, so I may be someone giving advice that works in theory but maybe not so well in all office settings. Double caveat, I want to punch this dude for this cr@p, you deserve the respect you earned!!)

      1. This one gets my vote. “that’s the plan” or “yes, except since A is involved, R is out of the question” or “that goes without saying” or “It sounds like you don’t have a full grasp of the situation. X is better in this case because Y”

        Also, taking him aside and saying something like “I get the idea you are a good mentor. But you are wasting your advice on me, as I a subject matter expert in this area. I’ve gone with it in the past, but I reached my limit today, so going forward I need for you to trust that I am good to go unless I approach you for assistance. Can you do that? Thank you.”

        After that, if he continues, I would interrupt him “I’m all set – let’s move on” or “Got it covered – what’s next on the agenda.” Using calm, slightly bored, unruffled tone.

        1. Yeah, can 150% see this happening in many workplaces. Doesn’t seem like it at all to me. Sometimes men mansplain.

  9. What are you reading and loving right now?

    I’m reading A Little Life and I’m obsessed with it. I read almost a third of it this weekend. Also reading and liking The Lost Girls of Paris and The Gatekeepers: How the White House Chiefs of Staff Define Every Presidency.

    1. Following this as I just finished “Becoming” (audio book, so good!) and looking for my next read.

      1. RBG: A Life is amazing. I loved her before and after reading it I am a total RBG fan girl.

    2. I am scared to start A Little Life – I feel like it’s too heavy for the summer?

      I just finished Miracle Creek and it was great.

      1. It’s not light reading. Feels very much like a fall book, but the weather here has been pretty October the last few days so it’s perfect. That being said, the first third hasn’t been too terrible. Some portions of it I felt like I was on the edge of tears but not quite there.

    3. I just finished the second (just released) volume in Kaite Welsh’s crime series set among female medical students in 1890s Edinburgh. I absolutely loved the intrigue, history, and social commentary.

    4. I loved A Little Life, but it’s absolutely devastating.

      Currently reading Molokai and Gone with the Wind (reread for the second time) and I just finished The Alice Network (it was ok) and a bunch of Curtis Sittenfeld books. The best books I’ve read so far this year were Underground Railroad and The Indifferent Stars Above. I’m aiming to read 75 books this year so reading a lot!

      1. Molokai is my all time favorite book and I also love the sequel. And anything he writes, really.

    5. I’m currently reading The Liars’s Club. I usually love memoirs but this one isn’t really doing it for me (maybe it’s too hard for me to get through as the mom of a young daughter?). I’m almost done so I’m sticking it out, though.

      The last book I read recently that I loved was Forever Is The Worst Long Time by Camille Pagan. It starts off slowly and seems like a typical love triangle but the end…wow. I’m still thinking about it. So beautiful.

    6. The She Was Gone
      The Great Alone
      The Immortalists
      Rules Of Civility
      The Hate You Give
      The Dry

  10. Would you eat hard boiled eggs that are exactly a week old? Internet seems to think this is ok but the limit. Definitely don’t want to get sick. They are unpeeled and have been refrigerated the whole time except one hour on the way to work last week.

    5. I would eat week-old eggs that have been in the fridge, but if they’ve been unpeeled for a week, aren’t they dried out?

    6. Yes – from my experience hard-boiled eggs are not shy about letting you know they have gone bad.

    7. Yes. Eggs, raw or hard boiled, last a long time in the fridge. Even the peeled hard boiled eggs from Costco that have not a single preservative added last weeks (though they are in sealed packets). I would guess that histamine levels may slowly rise as with any prepared food (or basically any protein), but I think it would be hard to mistake a spoiled egg for one that was good to eat (egg spoilage is pretty dramatic in my experience).

  11. OK hive, I’m looking for help. I’ve looked into CBT (workbooks, etc.) and it seems helpful, but I think I need something more like “how to manage your emotions for dummies.” Is there anything out there (besides just straight up going to therapy, which I am also looking into) that can help me with this? I really love the CBT approach of “working to become your own therapist,” but all the CBT materials I’ve looked at are geared towards working with anxiety and/or depression, and I don’t think that’s my problem.

    1. CBT is not manging emotions for dummies.
      It is managing thoughts. Does that help?
      Based on your question, I’m going to go ahead and internet-diagnose you with anxiety, so maybe focus on that.
      Good luck.

    2. I remember someone one this board once recommended DBT as being more effective for emotional disregulation issues.

      1. yes, DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) has several modules, but one is specifically about managing your emotions. There are worksheets, although I would highly recommend the therapy to get more benefit.

    3. Maybe not what you’re looking for, but I’ve found basic journaling (literally just writing what’s bothering me and why I think it’s bothering me and then eventually other things that might be making it bother me) has filled this function for me. It’s fascinating to me how much more clearly I can see the situation once I write “X made me feel y, because z, and maybe also m and n.”

    4. 2 books I’ve not read but read about that might be good: Emotional First Aid and F*ck Feelings.

    5. Do you know why your emotions are out of control? Do you need help with drawing boundaries? I’ve been listening to the Spiritualish podcast lately and it’s really good. They just did one on the difference between self-help and therapy that you might find interesting when trying to determine what would be helpful for you. They also did a really good series on boundaries.

      Their earlier podcasts are not as good, but I’ve gotten a lot out of the more recent ones.

  12. Where can I get a white scoop-neck t-shirt to wear under suits that is not sheer? It seems to be really hard to find!!

      1. +1. It may be my age (41) but I’m really coming around to Talbots for basics. Their tshirts are fantastic – fitted, sturdy, and fully opaque.

  13. Every summer, we have temperature wars. The problem is 2 paralegals refuse to dress in layers. They wear thin dresses and get cold in the AC, and they then adjust the temp yo put on the heat. Last week, it got up to 82 with the heat on. Its high 80s outside. The rest of us are sweltering. The company got them space heaters, which they claim don’t help. Note, they’ve been told to not adjust the thermostat, which is set at 74 and “auto” for AC. They do it anyway to the point that the executive assistant keeps threatening to put a lockbox over it. I wish she would.

    I want to tell them gently to wear layers. I have said, “I keep a wrap and a blazer in my office in case I get cold”. They don’t get the hint and continue to dress in very casual short, thin, cotton dresses, which is ok when you aren’t client-facing, but its not helpful when the rest of us have to wear business attire. I dress in layers, but there is only so much I can take off. I can’t get any less dressed than a sheath dress.

    Two years ago, this problem actually messed up the HVAC. We had a repair person come. But management do nothing but yell at them. How can I gently, but firmly, encourage them to stop this and wear layers?

    1. Do they have somewhere to leave the layers at work so they don’t have to carry them backwards and forwards?

    2. Do you manage them? You could give them a gift of a snuggie with the firm name on it. They won’t want to wear it anywhere else but the office. They will also dislike you strongly. Good luck.

      1. I would welcome a snuggie. Office is so cold that I’m wearing a suit. Even though we are casual.

      2. OP here- I don’t manage them. Their manager works on a different floor with its own thermostat. I suspect that’s why she doesn’t take this issue very seriously.

    3. I would tell them that the temperature is set to be comfortable for the attorneys dressing in suits. “If this is not comfortable for you, you need to adapt.”

    4. “I’m not sure if you’ve been made aware, but the thermostat is set for those in the highest ranking positions. Due to this, anyone not in that position needs to stop changing the thermostat. Not only is it problematic for the equipment itself, it comes off as a sign of disrespect to those at the top. I know the company has tried to be gentle with you about this by giving you repeated hints and buying you space heaters, and I’ve tried too by telling you what items I keep in my office to offer suggestions of ways you can make the change too but it seems like you’re missing the point. Every time you touch the thermostat, it not only risks expensive repairs being needed, it indicates that you don’t respect those in far senior roles. I’m sure you had no idea that’s what’s happening so I wanted to give you the heads up so you can begin to dress appropriately for the office temperature rather than repeatedly make such a faux pas.”

        1. Right it’s basically saying they’re young and dumb, lawyers are more important, suck it up. Super crass and cringey.

      3. I don’t know that I’d say the temperature must favor the highest ranked people (which, in many places is probably men, so you could end up in a freezer zone, plus it sounds a little snotty – I’m way more important than you, so I take charge of the temperature!), but the rest is okay. Maybe say that many of your colleagues must wear suits or other business formal attire, so the temperature needs to work for them, too. And that it is easier to add layers than to undress, to a certain point.

        But honestly I think I’d lead with the issue that it risks breaking the whole system – then there’d be no heat or AC for anyone!

        1. Completely agree with making it about attire rather than rank. You come across as really pompous if you have to throw your all-important status in the face of the peons below you.

      5. I see where you’re trying to go with this, but allow a few tweaks:

        It’s not about seniority. Even a first-year associate who has a client meeting needs to wear a suit (in this office). The issue is that client-facing people need to wear suits, and they are the ones bringing money into the firm.

        But the point remains that it’s their job to adapt to the client-facing rainmakers, not vice versa. It is not appropriate. End of discussion.

      6. I actually did have someone say basically this to me as an intern. (We were not changing the thermostat but were generally complaining about the cold.) We were told that the thermostat was set to make the exterior offices that had all windows (for executives) comfortable. We, and the majority of employees, were in interior offices with no offices, so our offices were below 60 some days. Staff routinely wore fleece jackets, gloves, and had heaters.

      7. This is terrible advice. Do you have trouble keeping staff/getting staff to assist you? I suspect so. Please know the problem is you, not them.

    5. I guess I don’t understand. They’ve been told not to mess with it, they’ve been yelled at, and told to wear more clothes. This isn’t a failure to understand the problem or the most reasonable solution – they aren’t respecting any kind of authority after explicitly being told not to do something. Is this a bigger issue? It’s clearly costing your company money having to fix HVAC and affecting productivity of everyone else. To me, this is honestly a fireable offense. Not in the sense that it is a big issue, but in the sense that they have made it one by being so ridiculously defiant. To me this is the same as someone being late repeatedly after being told to be on time and they intentionally are late because they don’t think it matters. Do you have any power over their employment or the ear of someone who does? If they understood that their job is on the line for defiance, they will find sweaters quickly.

      1. Yes to all this. Someone with authority needs to step in, not give them gentle suggestions. They know and they don’t care – that’s the problem.

    6. Did any of you read the kilt write-up in the WSJ over the weekend. The guy became more empathetic re office temps after realizing how freezing his legs were in a kilt.

      Signed,
      Wearing a coat inside today (so no matter how woke we are re being green and straw banning, we are making a giant hole in the atmosphere above our office); 75 would be relatively hot (but I could live with 82 also)

      1. I would bake at 82, and I have a circulatory disorder that makes me cold all the time.

  14. Good Morning–if you only had 3 days in Paris, would you use one of those days to go to Versailles? First time in Paris, and would love to visit, but don’t want to feel rushed while in the city. Thanks!

    2. Personally, no. It’s quite crowded and not something I’d do unless you have a lot of time there. 3 days isn’t much and I wouldn’t want to lose one going there (super touristy too, it’s the kind of thing I’d do maybe once and wouldn’t lose sleep over missing).

    3. If it’s important to you to see Versailles, then nothing anyone else says matters. If you’re neutral on it, I’d keep the following in mind. I did not realize that almost none of the interior furnishings (furniture etc) survived the revolution, so it was a lot emptier than I expected inside. Imo, if you’re going in spring/summer (maybe even fall), the gardens are the best part. Versailles is a day trip – if you’re speedy and/or willing to wake up early, it could be a half day trip.

    4. I would, but that’s my taste. I found Versailles particularly interesting (sometimes the tourist traps are what I genuinely want to see!) and don’t adore Paris the way I do some other cities.

    5. Adding my name to the “No.” I had a week in Paris the first time I went and never went to Versailles. (Still haven’t been to Versailles…or the Louvre.)

    6. I wouldn’t. I think you’ll enjoy your 3 days in Paris more if you don’t try to squeeze in a day trip.

    7. We had three full days in Paris (in addition to two half days on either side), were supposed to go to Versailles on our third full day, and opted to not go. The first full day we did– food tour, Notre Dame, Saint Chapelle, Louvre. Second full day we did– Musee D’Orsay, Tuileries, Orangerie, Champs D’Elysees, and the Eiffel Tower. Needless to say, we were totally exhausted by the end of this and wanted to get away from the crowds. I honestly couldn’t think of a more unpleasant way to spend our third day than at Versailles. Instead, we went back to some of the places on the food tour and to the Luxembourg Gardens and just generally wandered around Paris. It was lovely and was our favorite day there.

      1. No. Anon at 10:34’s itinerary above sounds pretty good to maximize what you can see. To avoid total exhaustion, I would move Champs D’Elysees to the third day, do the Arc de Triomphe and then the Fondation Vuitton and allow some time for wandering the 1eme. If you want more decorative arts, you can work in the Nissim de Camondo; if you want more actual art, the Rodin or Picasso. A lower key morning is Montmartre; do the Dali Museum (small but fun), climb the steps or take the funciular and tour the Sacre Coeur, hit A L’Etoile d’Or for chocolates and then a big plat de mer for lunch at La Mascotte, followed by afternoon activities of your choice.

      2. If you’re looking to go outside of Paris, go to Giverny and visit Claude Monet’s house and gardens (including the water lilies!). Absolutely breath-taking. If you’re staying in Paris, spend some time in Le Marais, especially Place des Voges.

    8. If it appeals to you, it’s worth a trip, especially on a nice day in the spring or summer. I really enjoyed it. It is an all-day event, but if it’s at the top of your list, then why not? FWIW I think you should do touristy things as a tourist, see the sights and museums. I also wouldn’t consider Versailles to be a tourist trap!

      1. I don’t think Versailles is a tourist trap, but I think there’s SO much to see in Paris itself that you will really regret using a third of your time in the city to leave it. To me, day trips are something you do when you’ve exhausted the major attractions in a city. In Paris, that happens on day five or six, not day three.

    9. I would, but not during peak tourist season. I have gone and spent less than half a day there and it was fine, but would be better in the off season. Do what you want to do! It’s always worth it.

    10. No. To see it well takes the better part of a day. I waited until my second visit (of 8 days) to visit.

    11. I didn’t on my first visit, and I had 5 nights there (4 full days). I’m going again for a second visit, and it’s still not on my itinerary. Really depends on your priorities and what else you wish to see/do in Paris. If you do go, either go very early and get the first morning tour with the palace (available through their official site). That will get you through the door faster. Or, visit the gardens and hamlet first then come back for the palace in the afternoon near closing hour.

    12. I loved the trip to Versailles not just because of Versailles itself but because the train ride out there was a lot of fun and a cool way to experience France, and the little town surrounding the train station was neat to visit, too. We had 4 days in Paris and this is one of my best memories from the trip. BRING CASH to Versailles though — there are vendors there that are cash-only.

    13. My first trip to Paris was 3 days between meetings and I spent those days wandering around, specifically refusing to take up my precious time standing in lines. So no Louvre, no Versailles. When I went back for 6 days I did both of those but I had the lay of the land from my first visit. I wouldn’t change a thing.

      Bon voyage!

  15. What are everyone’s favorite ships in literature/movies/tv shows? I just watched Good Omens and I was shipping the two leads; I’m also a Reylo shipper.

  16. Can anyone recommend a good divorce lawyer in NYC (if it matters, in Jackson Heights, Queens)? I’d also very much appreciate any resources or list of smart things to do or think about the day you decide to get a divorce (young children involved, hopefully won’t be acrimonious but want to take common sense measures). Thank you!

    1. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Good luck. I’m a year and a half past the point where you are now, and everything is so so so much better.

      Try to go the mediated route if possible. It’s faster and cheaper.

    2. Related question: how do the logistics of where you live after deciding to divorce? I can’t afford to move to an apartment or have him move out, so would we just have to live in the same house until it sells (assuming that is one of the outcomes of divorce)? These logistics are so overwhelming.

      1. No that’s weird. Someone moves out. If you both have jobs, you can afford to live separately, even if it means a studio apartment or living with roommates or having a long commute. In most divorces I’ve seen, the person initiating the divorce moves out, simply because the other person can just say “No, I’m staying here” and it’s a lot easier to move than to make someone else move.

      2. Yes you have to find a way to afford to be able to move out. For me, to took 4 months after initiating a separation to get my finances in order enough to be able to do it. Those 4 month were rough – I could not have held out much longer. I ended up moving into a 1 bedroom with my kid. Not ideal, but it was fine, and much better than the prior situation.

    3. So sorry you are going through this! My husband used Family Mediation in Manhattan for his divorce with kids, I used them as well (no kids), and we both highly recommend them. nyfamilymediation dot com

  17. Hi all – my husband and I found super cheap tickets to Frankfurt and are considering a trip around the Black Forest area. So far we are thinking 3 nights in Heidelberg, 3 nights in Strasbourg, and 1 night in Frankfurt – but would love to hear people’s recommendations if anyone has done something similar. Hotels, towns, etc. would be most appreciated. Thanks!

    1. 3 nights seems like a lot of time in Heidelberg, it’s not very big. I don’t think I’d do more than 2.

      1. Agreed. I took a 6 hour day trip and felt like I pretty much saw everything I needed to see (university, old town, castle…even randomly did some shopping in one of the department stores).

    2. I’d keep it to one night in Heidelberg. The major attraction is the castle which I think you can see very well in one day.

      2. +1. Also, Heidelberg is fairly touristy and not very big. I liked the short river cruise, if you’re into boats. For small university town feels, I enjoyed a night in Tubingen as well (but I was visiting someone at the universit there).

    3. I’d switch one or two of the Strasbourg nights for Freiburg, myself. It’s completely gorgeous.

      1. Oh, and I also loved Wiesbaden, which is very near to Frankfurt. Google the town names and “weinfest” if you’ll be there in the summer, to see if your trip dates coincide with local wine festivals, which are always a good time. I caught the Wiesbaden wine festival a few years ago and it was lovely.

      2. I studied abroad in Freiburg and it remains my favorite city to this day. I’ve been back twice. I would definitely go there and also consider Colmar or Tubingen. You could also check out some of the small cities on the Rhine like St. Goar.

        1. I was in Konstanz, which is also on the Rhine but much further upriver and a pain to get to from Frankfurt. Otherwise I’d have recommended it straight away.

        2. Agreed. I studied in both Heidelberg and Freiburg and would say one day is sufficient in both and would add a third day in Basel. And I say that as a person who never does whirlwind tours. We did Frankfurt-Heidelberg-Freiburg in three days with a ten month old and then a fourth day in Basel, then on to a week at villetta in Lake Como.

    4. I actually love Heidelberg and could see most Americans enjoying 2-3 relaxing days there. The main shopping strip in old town is quite charming, and there’s a nice grassy park where students congregate and spend an afternoon.
      If you enjoy hiking and history, there are ruins of a Nazi amphitheater “Thingstätte” located in the hillside. The hike is a little strenuous, but the ruins are immense and eerie.

      1. Thanks all! Maybe we will switch to one night in Heidelberg. We are trying to balance having enough to do with not relaxing/not traveling too much while we are there. We don’t want to drive so will be training between places.

        Has anyone spent more than a day in Frankfurt? Have read it has grown a lot in past few years and not just for business travelers anymore, but curious for first hand experiences.

        1. I’m the commenter above who studied abroad in Freiburg. I stayed in Frankfurt for a night last year and I have to say that the red light district was the worst collection of city blocks I’ve ever seen (and I live in San Francisco.) I’m talking about drugs everywhere, feces and garbage everywhere, young girls who were clearly being trafficked, pimps, all of it. It not only solidified my anti-prostitution stance, but put me off Frankfurt. That being said, I have heard good things about the city overall from my friend (old roommate) who lives an hour away. Just don’t go near the red light district if you don’t want to get depressed and contract hepatitis A.

          1. Sadly agree about the red light district. I was honestly shocked that it was so bad for a big city in a rich country, it very much reminded me of Times Square in the 80s/90s. Otherwise, the city itself was nice enough, safe, good food, but pretty bland. If you’re not into art or music I think you can do it in a day easily. And don’t forget that almost everything is still closed on Sundays!

        2. I don’t think Frankfurt is a particularly interesting city. I liked their botanical gardens and the Museum for Applied Art, but then I always like those. A regional specialty that I miss is hard cider.
          Darmstadt has a younger, college town vibe, with community gardening and such.

        3. The baths at Baden Baden! If you want to go to the casino you need close-toed shoes.
          Neuschwanstein Castle
          A concentration camp.

  18. If I found round trip direct flights to Barcelona for under $400 during a week that happens to coincide with my wedding anniversary, I’m obligated to book this trip right? :) Wasn’t planning on taking any vacation between 4th of July and a week in December but this has got me rethinking…

    2. Unless your wedding anniversary happens to be in a month that has terrible weather in Barcelona or a month in which you know work will be busy, then yes, I absolutely would not turn down a sub-$400 transatlantic flight and go for it! (Also, are flights to Europe unusually cheap this Fall? This is like the third “found a good flight deal to europe” post in a couple of days. What website do I need to be obsessively checking for cheap flights?)

      1. I think Barcelona is always cheap? I went there for $350 a few years ago. It was a normal advertised fare, I don’t have any special cheap flight finding skills.

        1. Flight costs are also relative depending on the geography of the traveler. $400 to Europe might be a normal deal for someone in NYC but a rare bargain for someone flying from the west coast or someplace with only smaller airports (like Montana).

      2. Sign up for a Scott’s Cheap Flights membership. Worth every penny to have great international deals from my home airport emailed to me.

    5. If it’s in August, double check that the things you’d want to do are open. A lot of things–mostly family-run non-chain restaurants–close up shop and go on vacations themselves! But it’s a fabulous city any time of year. Go!

  19. Why is this top $325?! It is made of “modal,” not hand-woven from the manes of unicorns.

    3. How catering to plus-size is it when tops cost $325?! There are a lot more plus-size people who’d buy a $60 t-shirt (still pricey to me) than a $325 executive t-shirt.

      Excuse me while I cue up the “Thrift Shop.”

    4. I get some great fashion ideas on this site, but yeah, a $325 modal top isn’t one I’ll be queuing up for. Modal is soft, to be sure, but like a lot of cheap synthetics, it tends not to wear well even if treated delicately.

    5. Haaaaa! I want you designing fabrics for me to use!

      I saw this top, saw the price and thought “just go to Universal Standard and pay $50 for the same thing.”

    6. Thanks for shaming those of us who were interested in buying it.

      I am, in fact, looking for a top like this and do buy expensive clothes.

      I don’t crap on the less expensive Friday clothes for being cheap, maybe don’t take your preferences out on the monday clothes?

  20. I’m going through a super busy time at work and I’m giving a lot more than I really need to be. I’m struggling with feeling unappreciated. I don’t expect much, but when i feel like things are hard and people are acting like I’m still not giving enough or no one can manage a simple thank you, it makes what’s difficult feel even more so.

    How do I handle this? I need to reset my own expectations, but in some instances I’d really appreciate it if the person receiving my work realized that it was a super huge lift, and not something that I necessarily needed to do, but something that was enormously beneficial to the team. Help?

    1. Do others know the work that team members are doing? I’ve found that, the times when I might not be as verbally appreciative, it’s either because I am buried in my own stuff and thus self-focused or I’m unaware of how much work went into something to properly acknowledge the workload. I wonder if colleagues are struggling with the same thing.

      I know that doesn’t fix the situation, but maybe reframing it makes it feel less like someone is undervaluing your work or undervalidating your efforts?

      PS Whatever you do, whomever you do it for, thank you for showing up each day and using your talent to benefit others. <3

    2. I’m in a similar boat. My strategy is to model the “thanks language” I want – in my case that’s written positive feedback. Once I’d sent a few of those, people started noticing and mentioning that they appreciated it. I’d say something like “it’s something we don’t do enough and I know I really appreciate it when I get a little message like that through” and it meant people have started sending me positive written feedback and thanks too.

  21. Just came back from a 2 week trip to Scotland, Ireland and England.

    Dining at “The Table” in Edinburgh was a highlight of the trip, and I wouldn’t have known about it except for the recommendation from here! Thank you!

    After eating and drinking everything in sight for 2 weeks (with lots of walking thankfully), ready to get back to real life now

    2. Woo-hoo! That was my recommendation! :D So glad you enjoyed it! I’ve still not been, but am still hoping to.

  22. Can we get some clarity, is Kat still writing for the site at all or has the comments for the site made it so popular that she has farmed out everything? Does anyone read these comments or is it pointless to point out tr@lls or ask about why we often get stuck in m@d for hours on end? I also wonder what percentage of us are here due to any interest in the posts and what percentage ignores the post and just uses the comments section. (What an interesting business model, to possibly have most of the base give no cares about the actual site info and show up just for one another, and to have been able to monetize said business… I wonder if many other sites have pulled this off!)

    1. She writes the afternoon posts. I think it’s kind of a situation where she can’t win – if she writes herself, people claim she’s out of touch with professional workwear, having not worked in an office in a decade. If she hires someone who’s currently practicing law to write for her, then she’s “farming it out.” This is how a lot of businesses work – the owner doesn’t do all or even any of the day-to-day work, and pays employees.

      1. I’m glad Kat brought in someone to help with the workwear stuff, because she kind of IS out of touch with current officewear. I do wish the workwear author got more credit in the About section. Is this a permanent hire? A trial run? Is it someone who’s volunteering for a month?

        1. Honestly, we went to casual at work and I don’t see how that many people will know what classic workwear even is in a couple more years. And I’m in biglaw and deal with finance clients who still wear suits and hose. But not all of them. It is confusing. I usually call ahead re attire if I am flying in.

        2. There’s the gray box that says “About Elizabeth” on every Elizabeth post and the menu at top now says “About the Authors…”

        3. Oh thanks – that is not obvious esp on mobile. I looked and I hope Elizabeth is getting paid for her efforts here!

          On workwear, I don’t mean suits. I mean styles that the typical mid-career woman wears everyday in a business casual office. Like I do not see people wearing t-strap heels to work (or heels that have ankle straps), but K@t would recommend them periodically. Although I don’t understand the price tag for this particular sweater, it is 100% current office attire with, say, linen ankle pants and flat pointed-toe shoes.

          1. I think it’s sort of weird that you default to assuming the other posters are not being paid? I’m not the biggest fan of Kat, but she’s always treated this blog like a business and I don’t know why you’d assume her employees are not being paid (which would be illegal, right?). These new posters are also lawyers, who are presumably not unsophisticated about the working world and business deals, I can’t imagine them working for free.

    2. +1. I remember when there were up to 700 comments on a post, and that was when Kat did it all on her own. This was several years ago now. Any staffing changes are not due to increased comment volume.

      1. I’ve been reading here since the beginning and never recall seeing 700 comments or anything close to it on any one post. I do think the comment volume has dropped off a bit (from maybe ~300 to 200 on average on the morning post) but I don’t think it has anything to do with Kat outsourcing some of the fashion posts. The comments have never really had anything to do with the clothes. I think people are getting a bit bored because the discussions are all pretty repetitive at this point.

        1. …and my comment the negative affects of the mod policy is in mod, even though I’ve used the same display name and address that I’ve used to come here for 9+ years.

          1. I just went through the fairly short moderation queue word by word and have no idea why you’re going into mod, cbackson. Do you have the little box checked that says “remember my name next time,” or some other setting on your browser relating to cookies?

        2. Kat, we’ve told you many, many times that the name, email, and checkbox trick isn’t working for a lot of commenters. cbackson is far from the first to complain about this. Can you please provide an update to your loyal readers?

          1. To directly address your problem, Anon (whose email address put you in the moderation queue): I briefly had abc and 123 in the moderation queue because trolls often use them in their email address — I think it’s catching more regular commenters than trolls so I’m taking those two phrases out of the moderation queue. Thanks so much for reading!

        3. Thanks for responding. That makes sense – I used abc and 123 as a fake email address so I wouldn’t have to use my real one (I never enter my real one in website fields anywhere), but I’ll use something more original in the future.

        4. I use anon at gmail dot com and that works well here. (Apologies to whoever has that address but I imagine they get a ton of unwanted email anyway).

      2. Yeah I remember one weekend open thread in particular that was up to 700 comments by Friday afternoon! I am curious if the average age of the comment base has gone up with the age of the s!te. Generally speaking, it seems like we’re a more mature group than in the blog’s early years… which may lead to less time for commenting AND fewer “is my water bottle unprofessional” Q&A needs.

        1. I’ve thought about that, too. I think the audience is growing up along with the blog.

    4. Comments on most blogs are down because people are often reading on smartphones rather than desktops and it’s a hassle to type a reply into a phone. Plus, there is so much more competition for fashion blogs these days with platforms like youtube and instagram taking up more of people’s attention. I don’t think the decline in comments has to do with Kat. She does us all a great service year after year.

    5. I comment a lot less because there are a lot of rude comments I don’t enjoy. I won’t use “the T word”…to me, it has a fairly specific meaning and most comments here that are labeled as Ts are not. But I don’t enjoy all the nastiness. I read and comment regularly on the mom’s page (I have a preschooler).

  23. Has anyone used Better Help dot com for therapy? I would benefit from some short-term therapy and my work schedule is not conducive to ducking out weekly for the appointment (Big Law, needy partners) but I’m worried that over-the-phone therapy will be lacking and $40/session is a get what you pay for thing.

    1. It doesn’t hurt to try it out. At worst you’re out $40. Are there trained professionals on the other end of the phone? Is video session a possibility? You’ll get the same out of a phone/video session as you will out of an in person session if there is a trained professional (albeit lacking nonverbal communication advantage via phone).

    2. It seems like the most logical step in Telemedicine. I have not tried it but will definitely look into it.

    3. I’ve used it and have been happy with it – I actually also like the text based part as well, because I can vent about things between live sessions. I can send you a referral code for a free week if you want – isitfridayyet18@gmail.com

  24. For those who aren’t married or partnered up, do you have that feeling of “home” and stability in your lives? How did you create it? I come from a culture which is modernizing but deep down believes your real home is the one you make with your husband and before that doesn’t matter (because historically there wasn’t a lot of time before husband – women went to college at age 22 or maybe lived on their own for one year pre marriage). While I’m not culturally traditional somewhere down the line I must’ve bought into this line of thinking. But now I’m nearing 40, single and STILL feel like living “dorm life” — ie one bedroom rental apt, doesn’t feel like a home, it’s just where I go after work. How do I fix this?? It’s not a money issue. In fact I feel bad that as a high earning professional I’m living like this, when we all know if mr right had come along, I’d have the McMansion in the good district and a luxury car.

    1. I made my apartment feel like home. I now own an apartment but even in rented I surrounded myself with my books, put art on the walls, and made the place feel like my sanctuary. Maybe have a look in some interiors magazines?

    2. But yourself a nice car if you can afford it and want it. If buying a house or a townhouse makes sense for your life, do so.

    3. Do you LIKE living in a one bedroom apartment? You say it’s not money, so can you afford to buy your own home and create a feeling of stability for yourself? Then do so!

      1. OP here — IDK I feel like things have changed. I USED to like it just fine — apartment living was easy; I used to work a lot and wasn’t home much anyway (have switched jobs so now I’m not at work all the time like at age 27; it was just a place to hang my suits. But I think somewhere in my mind I thought it was temporary, like I won’t be doing this forever — like everyone else I’ll end up with a family in the suburbs so enjoy this while you can. But now that it seems permanent, in the last few years I’m feeling more like OMG I am 40 years old almost STILL living dorm life. I find myself wanting a SFH even though it’s just me; I think I can afford it, though obviously I don’t qualify for the same mortgage that those with 2 incomes qualify for.

        But it’s not just about SFH vs. apartment, as I know people who live in apartments that DO feel like their homes when you visit (including rentals). Mine to me literally feels like some kind of temporary living situation, and then then the though of living the rest of my life like this just because I didn’t partner up is depressing; like it makes me think — why am I even working so hard to make money etc., do I really need THAT much to live in a 1 bed rental for life??

        1. I am 51 and live in a 1-bdrm rental apartment in a V/HCOL area (not NYC or San Francisco, but still). It’s a very nice, large apartment, with all utilities included (heat, water, AC) and indoor parking. And a 24-hour front desk. Plus my location is good – I’m in a suburb, but I’m a 5-10 minute drive to 2 downtown areas, and there are buses that run right in front of my building.

          I went through a big house lust phase in my late 30s – early 40s, and it had nothing to do with wanting kids – I just wanted a nice kitchen! I still want a nice kitchen, but I have to say that my house lust has died down some. Houses are great, and I know there are all levels of house – townhouse – condo, but ownership seems like a lot of work. Now, when my tub is running slow, I call the front desk and it’s fixed within 24 hours. I don’t have to deal with yard work, a broken furnace, broken washer or dryer… it’s honestly not a terrible place to live. I really think that financially I’d more or less break even if I bought something equivalent to, or a just a little nice than what I have, so I think it’s valid to factor in convenience.

          I have been thinking I need to declutter and also maybe upgrading some of my furniture. I’m not 100% sure I’ll die in this apartment, but why not make it nice?

          1. OP here — this is what everyone tells me but sometimes in a condescending way — oh a house is SOOO much work, how would you handle it (by yourself), why would you want that, right now you just call maintenance and that’s that. Except I want nice furniture (no place to put it in a 1 bed even though I can afford it); I have an interest in construction/maintenance and am the person in my office that people come to when it’s — so we had a contractor come by on Friday for x and they told us this, do you think that sounds right? What would you do? Even though I’ve never owned myself.

            This thread has convinced me to at least look/make plans because living life in this in between of — who know what’ll happen/who’ll come — is just not making me happy.

          2. Then it sounds like you should look into buying a place! It sounds like it would a good thing for you, and you certainly don’t need to be partnered to do it.

            Happy house hunting!

          3. Dont let insecure people run your life. People who express those opinions have their neuroses, not your best interests, at heart.

        2. Either buying your own place or putting in some effort to really decorate your current apartment how you want it will go a looooong way for this.

          Do you want the McMansion and the fancy car? Or is that the expectation from your upbringing/ others? If you want it, start budgeting for it (or buy that house or a smaller version of it if you have savings already!).

          I got a divorce a couple of years ago and had always dreamed of a certain type of home with a family, etc. My ex and I bought the dream home that I thought I wanted in the neighborhood I thought I wanted to be in, and I got it in the divorce. I spent a lot of time and money repainting, getting new furniture, and generally redecorating to make it feel like my home. Unfortunately, over the course of doing all of this, I realized that the house/neighborhood/everything else was just all part of what I thought I was supposed to want, and the big house became an albatross. I sold the house and moved into a funky one-bedroom (i.e., not a cookie cutter place that seems like a dorm room, but an apartment in an old house in a cool area of town) and love it so much. Now I’m looking for little cute houses in the new neighborhood. My apartment definitely feels like a home (MY home), and I think that’s because I’ve filled it with items that I truly love. Not everything is new–I decorated with some photographs, estate sale finds, etc., mixed with newer stuff. What matters is that it’s all stuff that I love and have a connection to all of it.

          For me, the root of it was realizing that what I was doing wasn’t what I really wanted, and that I deserve to be happy in the life I have RIGHT NOW. After those realizations, the stuff followed easily.

          Note: I’m not advocating that you go out and buy all new stuff right now. Just maybe spend some time thinking about what you really want and slowly accumulating art to put on the walls, or a new quilt, or whatever it is that makes you happy to look at.

        3. Oh honey. You absolutely deserve to live in a lovely home that makes you happy every day. It doesn’t matter if it’s a rental apartment or a McMansion as long as it meets your financial goals and supports your lifestyle and makes you sigh with relief when you walk in the door.

        4. i sort of feel the same way. 40, single, living in a one bedroom condo (which I own). have lived here for 10 years. Never thought i would end up staying for 10 years–i definitely didn’t buy this place intending for it to be the place i lived in at age 40. i have made some upgrades, and for the most part, i have wonderful neighbors and appreciate the ease of living here. BUT–I am missing out on one of the more traditional life experiences (owning a SFH). And since I am missing out on so many other traditional life experiences (marriage, kids), I kind of want at least one. And this one (owning a SFH) seems to be within my control. I can’t help that I haven’t yet met the right husband, but, if i work hard enough/save enough/make enough smart money decisions, I should at least be able to achieve this for myself. And i also am starting to worry about–will i be stuck here, in this one bedroom condo at age 50? Which really doesn’t sound good to me.

    4. I created this by buying my own house at 34. I know that is not realistic for everyone, but it sounds like it would be for you. Why does your life have to be anything other than the way you want it, whether “mr right” comes along or not?

      1. +1 million. And for what it’s worth, I have my own house (which I love) and find that it has really helped my mentality about dating. When I think about who is worthy of moving into my fabulous house, there’s a VERY high bar to clear. We should always have high standards for our relationships, but this material aspect has clarified that for me.

        Get the house, the car, and whatever else you’ve been waiting on (as long as it’s in your budget). Mr. Whoever has nothing to do with it!

        1. Another +1 million. I was highly offended by the notion that I’d have to get married to have a decent place to live. I just bought myself the things that I thought I’d want, including good china, cookware, decorated the way I wanted to, etc. I think living the life you want to life makes it a lot easier to engage in the present & not wish for some other alternative life.

    5. Why are you living in a one bedroom rental apartment if you want a house and are a high earning professional with no problem affording it? You can buy a place by yourself, ditto on the car.

    6. For me, this was thinking through all the things in my head that made me think someplace would feel like home to me – I made an actual list. Then incorporating them in my home. It involved displaying some art and inherited and acquired pieces, getting a particular type of dining table, etc. Some of it is also doing things at home that make me feel homey – for me that’s reading in a chair by the window, baking, etc. Also having friends over in a casual way makes me feel great too. Make your own list!

      1. Mine is flowers just because, having a rug, defined living spaces, bookshelves, and an upstairs. I love being able to say to the dog “ok, it’s bedtime, let’s go upstairs!”

    7. I do. I bought my first house at 29, and just bought my second at 39. My house is exactly how I want it – it’s home because I made it such!

      1. Yes, where I lived before I married, which was set up according to my taste and my needs, felt much more “home” than the compromise land house I live in now. The house itself is not what I would have chose had it been just me choosing, and don’t even get me started on the constant negotiation of the decor and use of space inside. So if you’re single I say live it up and enjoy your “100% you” home.

    8. Echoing others here – I moved out of 10 years of apartments and into a SFH by myself at 31. I was nervous and ended up doing two things that made it work: (i) learned to do a lot by myself and (ii) had a good handyperson on speed dial. I think you should assess whether it’s what you want and if you think it is, just look around casually. There’s no commitment in that, and it could give you a sense of whether it’s a real desire or general restlessness. It also helped my dating mentality a bit – I wasn’t focused on any “end game” or whatever.

  25. I keep getting ads for period swimwear (I guess link Thinx for bathing suits).

    Personally, I would not use them. A lot seem to feature tweens on them. I got my period very early and suspect that my older daughter is probably a few months out based on my timeline (or: this may be our last summer pre-periods).

    I sort of like the idea for girls who aren’t yet comfortable with tampons. But the ripening blood smell (esp. in our hot humid SEUS weather) from water activities clothes in a backpack all day just . . . I am not sure that this will be pleasant / not soil things inadvertantly / get mixed up with packed snacks / smell so much as to be embarassing.

    Has anyone else used these items for this age group? Admittedly, our personal hygiene skills will need to clear a high hurdle when this happens, but I’m not sure that this is the best way around it. OTOH, until a girl wants to use tampons, I think they just get excused from water activities.

    1. I mean I haven’t used this product, but couldn’t you solve all the issues by just sticking the swimsuit in a plastic bag when you’re done using it?

      1. I think that there is a biohazardness to it that just magnifies the ick factor. I used to put my horrid nasty soiled items in a ziplock for containment and odor control. I think you’d need to do that at least.

        But how good are these likely to be at containing blood in a wet environment? We aren’t supposed to be in our chlorinated pool at all when we are bleeding and the one kid I saw with a cut who was bleeding on the deck resulted in a major biohazard response with the lifeguards.

        I grew up in the NEUS but in my sunbelt city pools are much more of a daily thing (esp. for teen / tween girls).

    2. How sad to miss days of glorious swimming because your mom is such a prude she’ll just excuse you from water activities rather than figure this out!

      1. Is there some third way not mentioned here? IIRC, you can’t wear a pad in the water (but this thinx-for-swimming is sort of the same thing?).

      2. Come on, that’s harsh. The Mom isn’t a prude, this is a legitimate hygiene issue. The common and most obvious solution is tampons, that’s what most women wear if they need to in the summer while swimming. Some young girls are not ready to use them (puberty is already alarming, I’m not gonna traumatize a kid by telling her she has to stick something up her hooha from the beginning) and some girls are too petite to use them.
        This is a “read the situation when you get to it” sort of thing.

        1. It is a dangerous myth that “some girls are too petite to use them.” I don’t know why we try to scare our daughters away from using a product that for many women is the most hygenic, comfortable, and unobtrusive solution.

          1. Tampons were really, really hard for me. (So was/is intercourse.) Let’s do this cool thing wherein I don’t judge your body and you don’t judge mine.

          2. It’s not meant to scare. Some tampon sizes really are simply too large. Your v**ina isn’t born its adult size, it grows with you – tampons are made for teenagers and adult women not the poor short thing as a rail 9 yr old who got her period early. Now there are some brands that have petite sizes that weren’t available when most of us were young, but they can be a little harder to find/identify. Body sizes vary.

    3. 1) I would never ever allow a young girl to wear this in a natural body of water – there are way too many living things that will be attracted to basically a pad full of blood in the water.
      2) This is something I’d test in a pool because your daughter would never live it down if any blood became visible from a heavy day after she jumped in.
      3) I agree, life doesn’t have to be that complicated, they can be excused. Easy peasy.

      1. #1 is totally wrong. I wouldn’t go in a public pool because that’s gross to other people, but I’ve gone swimming in lakes and oceans with no tampon when I had my period. The amount of blood you release during your period is microscopic compared to the volume of the water you’re in (a tablespoon compared to hundreds of millions of gallons), and it’s 100% a myth that sharks or other things would be attracted to it. Of course people get their periods in the water unexpectedly sometimes, and nothing bad happens.

        1. I can be a bit of a bleeder, but the more horrifying thing is the clots I pass. They don’t soak into pads well but sit on top of them. I am not sure how that would be in the water — like red jellyfish if they escaped???

        2. Actual it’s not. It is 100% true that sharks and other predators can and do smell blood even from far away (just not the exaggerated miles away – but if a shallow water predator smells blood from a few hundred feet away, do you really want to risk it?). Just because you think its wrong doesn’t mean it is – go to reddit for that crap. Now the extent to which a shark is interested in human blood is debatable, but it’s a risk that I wouldn’t take at a beach – fresh water is usually more okay.

          1. Nah girl, it’s literally a complete myth. If you want to continue perpetuating this urban legend, feel free, but it’s about as scientifically supported as saying vaccines cause autism.

    4. When I was a tween, I was such a crampy / diarhea-y mess that I wouldn’t have cared about swimming or anything. I was already miserable. Now that kids can’t tote advil around in school / at camp, I think a lot of girls are probably suffering (or are just taking the risk, which I would do except we live in such a zero-tolerance world that I wouldn’t want someone making a case with my tween).

      Would honestly homeschool to keep access to Advil (and I am otherwise so not cut from that cloth).

      1. I don’t get people. 25 years ago I couldn’t carry Advil around. So I went to the nurse when I needed it. Homeschooling? Y’all are nuts.

        1. I’ve been packing (Advil) since at least high school (and I was 18 in high school and the sort who’d ride or die for being able to bring around Advil as needed). In middle school, I just suffered, especially if I got my period in the middle of the day. I basically needed (and still need) a constant drip of it or I am a hot crampy mess from my legs, through my intestines (yuck) to my front.

          And you’d think those cramps would propel a baby out to the point of it being airborne, but sadly no on that. I still had to push.

      2. +100! It also took me a while to figure out tampons, and I had huge body issues growing up, so didn’t thoroughly enjoy being in a bathing suit. That’s better now, but I still have never gone swimming while on my period and that’s ok. It’s not a huge thing that’s ruining my life or anything, but then I am in moderate climate.

    5. I really do not like tampons, but learned to use them because I love swimming more than I hate tampons. (It is also important to use them on very heavy days when a pad alone might not be adequate for that day’s schedule.)

      These days, there are all sorts of slim fit, plastic applicator tampons that are available. Buy your daughter several different brands (personally, I hate Tampax but do much better with Playtex) and let her experiment with what works. Teach her that some positions for insertion are easier than others.

    7. I also got my period relatively young (11) but got over my squeamishness at tampons REALLY fast once I had swimming fun as motivation.

      1. +1, same age and live in Texas… got my first period over the summer and wasn’t about to skip the pool

  26. To celebrate a personal success and as a gift to myself I’m using the service “d*cks by mail” to anonymously send phallic candy to all the awful s*xist men who have done me wrong in my career. None of these men are capable of enough self reflection to understand why they’ve received them, but it will be cathartic for me.

    3. I mean, whatever floats your boat. It’s cathartic for you and doesn’t really hurt anyone other than the dude being puzzled so…

    5. Unless you pay for it with a money order, aren’t you a bit worried that this comes back at you?

      Like it’s Daily Mail material.

      1. These candy sending companies have been around for a long time, so I’m not really worried. Plus what’s the worst that can happen? I can’t be fired (trust me) and these men would probably be really embarrassed.

      1. Although it’s possible it’s being used by someone else, this is definitely a username that has posted above the bridge many times before.

    7. I worked with a guy who received one of those anonymous poop boxes at work. He was an a$$ and it was hilarious. The company refused to release the sender’s name. It still makes me laugh.

  27. After the discussion recently about putting effort into dating in your 20s, I have been going on dates, some more successful than others. I have a third date this evening and I think this guy might stick. One thing that’s difficult to me – having previously fallen into relationships with people in my friend circle – is that I struggle to reconcile physical intimacy with not actually knowing that much about him. I don’t know his birthday, his favourite TV show, his last name, that kind of thing. A real blocker will be knowing what he’s looking for – I’d rather not garden without knowing if he’s looking for something serious. Is that a weird take? (It doesn’t have to be serious yet, just with the potential to grow in that direction).

    1. No, it’s not a weird take. You shouldn’t do anything you’re uncomfortable with, and there are lots of people who don’t want to garden until a relationship is serious or exclusive.

      1. +1. Despite what messages you may hear, you are under no obligation to garden in casual relationships if that makes you uncomfortable. It certainly made me uncomfortable! I only gardened with 4 partners, all of them in serious, long-term relationships.

      2. +2, I never gardened until we were exclusive. I never had a guy complain or break up with me, over it, either, although if he had I would have been fine with that.

    2. I agree with you. Frankly I’d take this approach. But just be prepared that if date 3 or 5 or whatever comes and you say — we need to wait until we know each other more, are exclusive etc — some guys will back away. Some of it I’ve found depends on geography. In lots of places a 25 year old guy isn’t even thinking hard about marriage yet he just wants a gf and if you delay gardening, he’s out. In other places, he may be thinking married at 26, first baby at 27, and then if he feels you could be the one, he’s more likely to want you to be comfortable, not push you away by pressuring you etc.

    3. You have had two dates and don’t know the guy’s last name? I think this is partially a comfort thing (very legitimate only do what you are comfortable with) and partially a failure to glean basic information about a guy over two dates. Random things like favorite TV show, favorite beer, etc. aren’t that important I think as those change over time and that is the process of getting to know someone slowly over time (I didn’t learn my Hubs was afraid of amphibians or that he watched old TV gameshow reruns every single day until three years in). But getting to know their personality and basic biographical information is something that usually is done over the first few dates. Something is weird or wrong here. Is he intentionally not offering up information or evading your questions?

      1. I don’t know, it’s just not come up. We’ve done religion and politics, so it’s not that we’ve avoided real information… just those very basics are missing. I don’t really know how to approach it without sounding like a police interviewer. (I did hear him giving his full name when we went into a restaurant where he’d booked a table, so I do know it, but he hasn’t told me it, if that makes a difference).

        1. Being intimate on a third date is not by any means a hard and fast rule. I’d bring it up casually saying, “I’d like to get to know you better, can you tell me some more stuff we haven’t gotten to like your full name, where you grew up, how many brothers/sisters you have, etc.”. And let the conversation flow naturally from that (ex. he’s bound to start telling you about childhood memories, etc which is nice to hear and easy to respond to).

        2. I won’t go on a date unless I know the last name. I come straight out and tell them that. If they balk, I assume they are hiding something and it’s a hard pass.

          There’s no reason you can’t say, “hey, I just realized I don’t know your last name. What is it?”

      2. Not helpful maybe, but this sparked a memory for me. I met my husband through friends and I have a very clear memory of asking him his last name on our first real “date” (after having hung out a couple times at parties) and for whatever reason, really liking it . I remember it feeling a little funny because in some ways we knew a lot about each other and in some ways we knew very little. I think it’s just part of the fun of dating – letting the knowledge emerge over time. Maybe I’m just old:)

      3. This seems unduly harsh and out of touch. I’ve often gone on 3-5 dates with someone without knowing his last name and/or him learning mine. I wasn’t focused on it during the first date, cause what does a last name tell you. And then we discussed family history, politics, and religion on the second date. I would much rather know how many brothers and sisters a person has or what their relationship with their family is like then their last name.

        IME and that of friends, it is common to not learn a last name on the first few dates

    4. There’s no three-date rule. Move at the pace of the slower person. If it’s a good relationship, the other person will understand that you get there eventually.

    5. I think its completely fair to want to know those things – they seem very basic – before you do anything. I’m close in age to you and I probably wouldn’t do anything other than k*ss (don’t know what gets blocked here) until I knew his last name at least.

      One thing that has worked for me is to keep the first say 4-5 dates out of the home at places that lend themselves more to conversation and less to . . . other things.

    6. Granted, I’m probably An Old at 35, and it’s been a while since I was dating, but you sound really normal to me. There’s no third date requirement, and there shouldn’t be a third date expectation, either. Go at your own pace. What kind of dates have you been on so far? For me, activity dates, and counter-intuitively, dates with friends or others in a group activity, were best for getting to know people. You can learn things casually without the interview feel that sometimes happens when you’re eating dinner face-to-face.

      1. First drinks, and then a dinner and drinks. Both were dates of well over three hours.
        I’m not seeing it as a third date expectation at all.

    7. I’m Old and have never done online dating, but it is it really common to go on three dates with someone whose last name you don’t know? That seems so weird to me.

      1. When you meet a potential new friend, do you immediately ask for their last name after they are introduced as “Liz” or “Beth”? For most people, they don’t. Why would it be different with online dating?

        1. No, but I tend to expect a lot more knowledge about someone that I’m going to sleep with, or even makeout with.

  28. How do you deal with a job search where appropriate listing are few and far between?

    I’m in government, and want to remain in government in my city (due to pension, family, and long term career goals). I’m very well qualified and somewhat senior (management/executive level), and am pursuing all available and appropriate positions through postings and networking. However, they are so few and far between, and hiring is so slow, that it’s a frustrating process. I waited too long to start and am now mentally 100% ready to leave my current situation but it could be months before I find what I’m looking for. How do I stay sane?

    1. I’m exactly in your shoes – I’m in a government job that I don’t love, and am desperately searching for a new position in a different area of government. But I live in a small city where turnover is very low and I know it could be months (or years!) before something comes up. Other than networking, I decided to sign up to teach a course at the local university to meet more folks and to burnish my resume a bit. Good luck and hang in there, I know it’s tough.

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