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Oooh: what a pretty sweater. I like that this summarizes a bunch of trends into one — short-sleeved sweaters are back bigtime, as are polo sweaters, and I've been seeing so many crocheted and wide knit tops like this — I really like for a casual weekend look, particularly with a matching tank beneath it.
(Of course, know your office before wearing something really sheer like this — if the base spaghetti-strap tank isn't appropriate to wear to your office, the sweater probably won't be either.)
The sweater is one of the bestsellers at J.Crew, and comes in three colors for $89 in sizes XXXS-3X.
J.Crew has a lot of pointelle options right now, but none are quite as delicate as this “cashmere lace pointelle.” This cashmere pointelle sweater set is on final sale and has a very sophisticated vibe.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Anonymous
Stocks and bonds — what is your allocation amount (and your age)? What bonds or bond funds are you investing in? I feel like every time I look at individual bonds I’m more impressed with cds or HYSA.
Anon
For retirement I just use the target date funds so I’m not sure of the exact allocation.
I have some I- bonds as a college saving vehicle. There are tax advantages if you use them for college and qualify based on income.
Anon
We are almost 100% in stocks, because (1) we don’t look at our investment accounts daily so are not emotionally swung around by the market and (2) we don’t plan to retire or drain any large amounts of money out of the market in the next 10-20 years. Now that we’re in our 30s, we’ll probably start adding bonds in a little more, but we’ll still have a relatively high % in stocks.
Runcible Spoon
Federal government employee here. As I will have guaranteed income pension in addition to withdrawals from 401(k) savings (and Social Security benefits), I don’t need to allocate a lot of the 401(k) savings to “safer” investments (like government securities or bonds or cash). The “investment allocation” purpose served by the pension portion of retirement benefits is to take the place of bonds as opposed to stocks. So the Thrift Savings Plan allocation is 50 percent C fund (large and mid cap index fund), 25 percent S fund (small cap index fund), and 25 percent I fund (international index fund). I have a pre-government employment private firm 401(k) fund invested in an international stock mutual fund, and a Roth IRA invested in a value stock mutual fund. I’ve bought some I-bonds in recent years because the interest rate was so high and it was a way to stash some cash safely. I have some non-retirement after-tax investments in my state’s tax-free municipal bond mutual fund, a Total Stock Market index fund, and and international stock mutual funds. The only individual stock investment I have is ExxonMobil, because the shares were a gift from a relative.
Anonymous
Roughly 80% stock (which is 68% US and 12% international), 20% bonds, which I think is probably classified as more aggressively on the stock side than the “typical” recommendation for our age (Age 39). Bonds are a mix of I Bonds and a couple of bond index funds.
Ses
Mid-forties, 80/20%
Anon
Mid 50’s
60% / 40%
My “bonds” are Fidelity total bond index funds, TIAA fixed annuity, and lots of cash in high yield money market fund (> 5%) at Fidelity. I buy iBonds yearly.
Anon
Mid 60s, partially retired. 80 stocks, 20 bonds. Mostly TSP for me, mostly Vanguard IRA/Roth for DH. We will most likely need a good portion of our retirement savings for health care and assisted living when we are in our 90s so think of it as still saving for our future.
2046
I’m 37 and planning to retire at 60. My investments are 94% stocks and 6% bonds. My bond funds are Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF and Vanguard Total International Bond ETF.
Unimportant Rant
Petition to never allow breaking back in the Olympics..!
I love watching the non-mainstream sports in the Olympics. I am a sports and competition junkie. I LOVE the olympics. I also acknowledge the tremendous strength and skill breakers (and dancers in general) have. But I could not watch it today when it was on. It just felt SO out of place for some reason. I really thought my curiosity would draw me in but….. just, ehhhhhhhhh. That is all.
(Fwiw, it’s not the only sport I take issue with that is or has been included in the past.)
Anon
Considering that break dancing was historically a black style of dance, saying that it feels ‘SO out of place’ just feels kind of implicitly prejudiced. You don’t have to watch every sport and wanting to police who is allowed to be in the Olympics (when a committee much more knowledgable about the Olympics has decided to include them) is a wild stance to take.
Let people be in the Olympics if the Olympics has decided they should be included. Wanting to exclude sports as a stance is bizarre to me. There’s tons of weird stuff in the Olympics and trying to boycott one a historically black dance category is… not the look you might want to be projecting…
Senior Attorney
Agree. Gives me the same hinky feeling I get when people say “I can’t stand rap music!”
Anon
Yes! Or folks getting mad about Beyonce performing at the Super Bowl…
Anon
Wait…what’s wrong with not liking rap music? It’s not the only genre that I done like…
Anon
There are a lot of historically black activities that aren’t Olympics sports.
There are a lot of dance activities from around the world that aren’t Olympic sports.
Trying to make saying that this dance activity doesn’t seem like a good fit for the Olympics into a racial thing is…kinda weird.
Anon
Oh, and I don’t think rhythmic gymnastics should be an Olympic sport either, for what it’s worth.
Anonymous
Yet this was the immediate reaction of several folks. Guess what? That makes it a racial thing whether you think it should be or not.
Anon
No, it doesn’t. I don’t think any subjective “sports” should be in the Olympics. That includes rhythmic gymnastics, which has consistently been dominated by Eastern Europe and Russia. If the scores are just judges’ opinions, it’s not a sport, it’s an art form, and art forms are not Olympic events.
Anonymous
I’m going to try to put this kindly. I don’t think you realize you are offending people. But as the message deliverer, you don’t get to dictate what is offensive to the message receiver. Multiple people find your view racist. Learning to consider the message receiver’s views will serve you well in life, whether you’re discussing cultural topics, religion, race, or, frankly, your daily interactions.
This may also shock you, but you also don’t get to determine what is and isn’t an acceptable art form for others.
OP
I’m checking back in after the post and all I can say is….. woahhhhh.
Thank you, Anon at 3:34. I really consider it an art form that has a role in cultural and art, but as a sport in the Olympics to be judged and granted a gold freaking medal? Nope, no way.
BTW, I don’t think ballet should be in the Olympics. Even, now? Maybe cool it jumping to racism on this one?? Good freaking lord. Have a nice day.
Anonanonanon
So gymnastics are out too? That’s pretty subjective.
Anon
I’m not the OP. I am deeply unconcerned with the opinions of people who can twist the (very common!) idea that dance- and other subjective activities do not belong in the sport into something racialized. This has been a discussion in the Olympics since the 80s or 90s, and has traditionally centered around sports that white countries have dominated; trying to say “anyone who raises this concern about breaking is racist!” is anti-intellectual and ignorant of the history of the Olympics.
The subjectivity in judging in figure skating and gymnastics led to major scandals and then revisions to how those sports are judged. It’s why we don’t have 10s in those sports anymore. I would like to see the other sports that are retaining subjective judging eliminated, as well. Breaking, which is subjectively judged, is a step backwards in that department.
anonshmanon
After going back and reading your original post, it doesn’t really express much of your rationale. Your point that it’s too much of an art form and objectively determining the best performance is not doable, makes a certain amount of sense.
But your original post just has vague ‘it doesn’t fit in’ sentiments, and that kind of vagueness is pretty closely linked with prejudice in a lot of instances. Couple that with the backstory of break dancing…
Anon
Again, I’m the person at 3:13, who said “There are a lot of dance activities from around the world that aren’t Olympic sports.” I’m not the OP of this thread.
I have no doubt that there are racists who think that it should not be in the Olympics because they’re racist. I am saying that assuming that *anyone* who holds that view is racist is …bizarre, and reflects a lack of knowledge of the history of more artistic sports in the modern Olympics.
Anon
And my comment was short and flippant because I genuinely did not think that “subjective scoring has historically been bad / a bias creator and should not be used in the Olympics” was like, a super hot take. I’m shocked by some of these comments, which seem unmoored from the history of bias in other Summer Olympics events.
Anonymous
As long as they are on the topic, I wish they would bring back women’s softball. My girls are so disappointed it’s not part of it.
Anon
Is it not coming back when baseball comes back? Boo to them if so!
Anon
It is. But it’s not a permanent addition
Anon
Uhhh… calling what is probably the most clearly black sport ‘SO out of place’ at the Olympics and going out of your way to say we should remove them feels very implicitly racist. I’ve never watched a sport and thought they shouldn’t be allowed to compete so this seems weird to me.
Look up the history of breakdancing among African Americans in the Bronx. I think it’s beautiful they are given a platform at the Olympics.
Runcible Spoon
“they”
Anon
The ‘for some reason’ is probably because it’s a historically black dance style and you have some subconscious biases. ‘I could not watch it when it was on’ is a very intense reaction to a sport that to me felt very in line with the other competitions.
Anon
Well this is a dogwhistle if I’ve ever heard one. There are a lot of people in the comment section at Fox News who agree with you…
Anon
Seriously! I feel like I’m sitting next to my rural uncle right now (who also uses terms like “those people”)
Anon
I was wondering watching some of the other sports at what point athleticism becomes acrobatics and a circus show. And circus performers are INCREDIBLE ATHLETES, but when there’s an aesthetic component to a performance, it feels like moves away from pure competition? I much prefer aesthetic performances and have never personally been motivated by grades, scores, or winning, probably to a fault. But I wonder if people with the same abilities are drawn to different arenas? And why we put the athletes on a pedestal and reward them while usually marginalizing performers?
Anon
I think calling athletes in sports like break-dancing, gymnastics, figure skating, etc “circus performers” is pretty offensive. There are scores and grading for the sports with rigorous and clearly defined rubrics. People like Simone Biles have pushed the sport far outside the limits of what was previously possible. She’s not a circus performer, because she is not in a circus.
I personally prefer watching the more performance-adjacent sports, and I’d find the Olympics a lot more boring if they were removed.
Anon
Same!
Anon
Why is it offensive to make the comparison unless you look down on circus performers as inferior?
I’m not saying that they didn’t earn their scores when they win! I also didn’t say the rubrics aren’t rigorous or clearly defined. I guess I was wondering how a person who has this kind of potential makes a decision about how to use it (in competitive athletics or in performing arts) and which choice gets more respect and why.
One thing that does bother me a little was the history of injury, since I would have thought that attention to sustainability, safety, and long term health was part of the tradition of competitive athletics. It’s amazing what injuries some athletes have come back from, but is it okay that such severe injuries happen in training to so many competitors?
Anon
Because they are not in the circus. Circus performers, are by definition, in the circus.
It is like calling a chef a cruiseline cook. They do not work on a cruise, so therefore they are not a cruiseline cook. It is treating a rarified sport as interchangeable with another mostly unrelated thing.
Anon
So in your view it would be hugely offensive and a big insult to observe of a circus performer that they’d achieved a feat comparable to an Olympic athlete?
Anon
Haha of course that’s not what I’m saying. It’s no better or worse to be a circus performer. But gymnasts, swimmers, and figure skaters are not circus performers – they are not in the circus. It is not that one is better or worse; it’s that they’re different things. It is like calling a lawyer an accountant. Neither is better or worse, but it’s a complete lack of consideration to the intricacies of each to say they are interchangeable.
Anon
I only watch a few events so am not a junkie by any means (and I haven’t seen the breaking), but how is it any different from something like synchronized swimming?
In any case, we have bigger fish to fry – like protecting the women’s division. Male competitors with DSDs should not be competing against women, especially in contact sports, and the media obfuscation designed to confuse the public about this issue is immoral.
Anon
There are no male competitors competing in women’s sports at the Olympics. There were two women boxers, both assigned female at birth with female reproductive organs, who a debunked Russian agency said had too much testosterone to be ‘women.’ The current Olympic vetting agency said that they are biological women. Women can have XY chromosomes and still have female reproductive organs and all the biology of women. The idea of someone looking at my hormone levels and deciding I’m not a woman because of normal variances (in spite of me having every aspect of the makeup of a woman) is not a world I want to live in.
It’s an incredibly cruel non-issue the right has drummed up and honestly terrible for women as a whole. Women all have testosterone – deciding a woman’s levels are two elevated, even though she has all the organs and body of a woman, and telling her she is not a woman? It’s awful.
Anon
You’ve been badly misinformed. They are males with DSDs, not women. Google 5-ARD.
Anon
From the WSJ this week:
The most probable DSD for Imane Khelif is 5-alpha reductase deficiency, or 5-ARD. People with 5-ARD have XY chromosomes and testes that produce testosterone. But because of a gene mutation affecting the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, their testosterone can’t be converted to dihydrotestosterone, which is essential for developing male genitals. People with 5-ARD, though biologically male, are born with female-appearing or ambiguous external genitals, leading to potential misidentification as female at birth. Many with 5-ARD are raised as girls, only discovering their condition at puberty when their internal testes trigger male puberty. This results in masculine features and a physical advantage over women in sports.
Anon
You are so silly. Every reputable news org is reporting clearly that she is a woman. The Russian agency that decided she wasn’t has been debunked and disbanded. Saying someone who has female gen i talia is not a woman because you have decided you know better than the Olympic vetting agency, her family of origin, her (culturally conservative) country of birth, and all of her birth records? That’s so weird.
Anon
Keep your head in the sand, then, and watch more women get hurt. I can see you’re not interested in reading the evidence yourself – or even trusting your own eyes to interpret photographic evidence. What a world.
Brontosaurus
LOLOL “photographic evidence?” Imane doesn’t look like you think a woman should, so she’s a man???
Senior Attorney
Just stop it, Anon at 2:28.
Anon
Just stop it, Anon at 2:28.
Anonymous
I dislike how they are constantly changing the sports involved. Like my karate loving kid was bummed that there was karate at Tokyo and not in Paris. But Judo is? I don’t get the dance inclusions either. Like yes judo, no karate, yes breaking, no ballet? It seems like every Olympics it’s a different set of sports. And somehow cricket isn’t there even though it’s widely played around the world.
The whole event would be more financially viable for host cities if there was some consistency in events and fewer events instead of constantly adding and subtracting events.
Anon
I was curious about the events changing and so read up on it a bit last week. It appears that there are “core events” (eg. gymnastics, diving, etc) at every Olympics, and then the Host for each specific Olympics gets to choose 5 additional events (ie. baseball was in Tokyo and will be in LA, but not Paris, because they chose/not chose that event). I think I saw that cricket will be back in LA as well. I guess that could be a benefit to host cities if they choose events that use their existing infrastructure.
Senior Attorney
Ah! Thank you for clearing that up! I had no idea the host city gets to choose events!
Anon
Oh, this is cool and if France chose breaking as one of their events, then I am all for the inclusion of it! I’m the person above who said we should get rid of rhythmic gymnastics and anything else dance-y. And the reason I think that is because they’re too subjective to really be sports. Even floor on traditional gymnastics is relatively objective and reviewable: you hit the passes or you don’t; the dance elements are honestly kind of sexist relics I wish they’d ditch.
But if the host wants to pick more subjective activities that are within the ambit of the Olympics, I think that’s totally fine.
Anon
Thanks for explaining this!
Anonymous
Oh, I always wondered why cricket wasn’t in the mix.
Anonymous
I feel this way about a lot of the nontraditional “sports”, especially those that lean more to performance than pure “stronger/faster/higher” type sports. I have a negative reaction to rhythmic gymnastics, golf, skateboarding, even surfing, being “Olympic”, and I hadn’t even remembered that breaking was added. But who am I to decide? I just don’t watch or pay attention (though I did feel something when Scottie Scheffler cried on the podium).
Anon
I don’t understand why basketball and 3×3 basketball are both in the Olympics. Would 3×3 basketball even exist if it weren’t in the Olympics?? Does there really need to be tennis, table tennis, AND badminton? Surfing and skateboarding are weird ones to me because I know they require a lot of athletic skill, but how they judge who is best seems really vague and nebulous to me. Same with competition bouldering and lead climbing. I understand how synchronized swimming and rhythmic gymnastics are different from the other swimming and gymnastics disciplines, but they seem a little superfluous. And I’d get rid of equestrian and sailing because I think they’re boring.
Anon
+1 to not understanding (at all) why 3×3 basketball is there. I like surfing in general but think it’s poorly suited to the Olympics. Sailing is boring af but I recognize that others disagree on that.
Anon
I don’t get this line of thinking. I understand people who enjoy a sport and are sad not to see it represented. But using your one precious life to get worked up about how some sports are more deserving than others to have a world stage?
Anon
I’m not worked up, I’m just replying to a topic somebody posted on a blog.
Anon
You think people idly commenting on an online fashion blog while zoning out during their lunch breaks are “using [their] one precious life to get worked up”? I don’t think anyone here is taking this that seriously; I think we just don’t want to work on a Friday.
Anon
Yeah, I’m all in favor of having lots of different kinds of sports get a place to shine in front of the world, though even I don’t understand the 3×3 basketball thing. Is this a real sport anywhere besides the Olympics? I’m sure there’s a backstory about it being less dominated by the US or something else like that I should look up. I know that’s part of why softball got booted- not enough countries had competitive teams.
Anon
Wow, I did not know it was traditionally a Black style of dance. But, I agree that it’s not a sport and shouldn’t be in the Olympics. But, not because it’s a Black activity. It’s cool but it’s just not a sport.
They’re getting rid of other sports to make room for new “sports” which I hate.
Anonymous
You didn’t even know its origins so surely you understand how scoring works, etc.
Yeah, you definitely know better than the Olympic Committee on whether to include it.
Anon
+1,000
Anon
I have nothing against it as an art form, part of a culture, or an activity. But it’s not a sport.
Anon
Are gymnastics, figure skating, and synchronized swimming sports? If so, what is the difference? If not, why are you railing against breaking and none of those?
Anon
Gymnastics and figure skating both underwent massive judging scandals and revisions to their scoring systems over the past 35 years. The changes moved the scoring away from subjectivity towards objectivity. Breaking is using almost a 100% subjective scoring system currently, which it probably will always have to given its nature.
There’s an argument that gymnastics and (especially) figure skating lost something due to these changes—but the changes reduced favoritism (which creates bias!) and leveled the field in gymnastics in a way that allowed more physically powerful athletes like Biles to get the recognition they deserved. There was real racism and an associated body type bias at play in gymnastics even in the early 2010s.
Wanting objectivity in sports is not a racist thing; it’s pretty anti-racist, because it reduces the risk that scores are given because the person “looks like” a figure skater, dancer, or gymnast.
Anon
I also don’t think they’re sports!
I also don’t like rap but love jazz.
Anonymous
So you have no idea how it works, how it’s scored, what it takes to be selected, what training entails, or really pretty much anything else but that you’re super sure that it shouldn’t be a sport and any racial connotation should be ignored.
Man, the ignorance here sometimes is just breathtaking.
Anon
There is still tons of favoritism in figure skating. There was an attempt to make it more objective, but all it really did was slightly change the way the judges play favorites. Instead of just giving a number from 0 to 6.0 to each skater they now rate each element from -5 to +5 but basically it works exactly the same. Feds still push their preferred skaters, there’s still a bonus for skaters who’ve had international success in the past, and you still see block judging to some degree.
-former figure skater & current coach
But honestly no sport seems fully objective to me. Even in ball sports there are often close judgment calls about whether a play was permitted.
Anon
And there is still TONS of racism in figure skating. In 2023 Starr Andrews was the first Black woman to win a medal at the US championships in I think 30+ years, and she has not broken through on the international scene at all. Partly that’s because she’s not a very consistent skater, but even under the new judging system there’s definitely racism and favoritism for stereotypical “ice princess” bodies (petite, very slim, blond-haired/blue -eyed or east Asian).
Anon
Yeah, you can probably tell from my comments that I’m much more into gymnastics than figure skating. And I don’t think gymnastics is now like this magical non-biased place—bias is still very real and prevalent in the sport—or that this is the only reason we’ve seen a change.
But I do think objective scoring is better than subjective scoring at mitigating bias, and a sport that can’t support objective scoring doesn’t really belong in the Olympics for that reason.
Anonymous
can someone tell me why it’s called breaking instead of break-dancing?
Anon
I think because if they call it dancing they’ll be pressured to include other types of dance as well.
Anonymous
Wow.
Anonymous
Breakdancing includes different styles like popping and locking that were developed separately.
Anon
If you can do what that Australian contestant did, then it shouldn’t be an Olympic sport.
Anonymous
What I love about the Olympics is that it elevates sports that the US doesn’t otherwise care about, and that nobody cares about Olympic basketball or baseball and there is no American football. Bring on the diving, track and field, crew, judo, kayaking, and dressage. And yes, even the table tennis and breaking.
Anonymous
Do you think it is odd for partners to spend long periods together but in silence?
My BF of 2 years and I live about an hour apart, so we generally just spend Saturday afternoon through Sunday evening together. (We don’t really have responsibilities outside of work, and his work is very 8-4 and mine has been very slow the last couple of years, so we have a lot of freedom on nights and weekends.) During the week, we text a little and talk on the phone a couple of times, usually for hours (really! I love it!). We talk a lot on Saturday and usually stay up into the wee hours chatting, listening to music, watching videos, etc., then when we get up on Sunday we usually take a walk and spend the afternoon/evening fooling around and watching TV. I have realized that for a lot of Sunday, we don’t really talk. Sometimes more than an hour, even two, goes by and we don’t say anything at all. Is this abnormal for couples? Or is it typical that sometimes you just don’t have anything to say? I don’t feel awkward with him at all, it feels pretty intimate to just be in each other’s company, but then I look back and think about it and just wonder if others have this, too, or if it’s unusual.
Anon
If it works for both of you, then it works. I’m someone who needs much more communication, so it wouldn’t work for me. But that doesn’t make either of our relationships abnormal! Again, ask yourself if it’s working for you and if it’s working for the relationship.
Anon
I wouldn’t be married if I had to be talking to my husband during all the time we spend together.
Senior Attorney
Ha! Right?
Anon
This! I live with my SO and see him every day even while working from home. There are times where we have nothing to update each other on because we are together so much! I think it’s fine and normal!
Anon
Yeah, exactly. As an introvert, this is exactly what I’m looking for in a partner, someone that I actually want to be around all the time because it doesn’t take energy to be around them
Anonymous
+1
opposite
Ha, I wouldn’t be married if my husband had to talk to ME for all the time we’re together. I’m extremely extroverted and he’s quite introverted, so I need all the attention and chatter, and he needs none of it.
We actually declare “individual time” pretty frequently. We both work from home, and I’d be fine with hanging out together most hours of the day. But I know he needs his space. It’s helpful for me to know that it’s individual time, he’s not mad or annoyed, it’s just individual time.
We usually include the activity we each plan to do, and then maybe “together time” after that. It sounds formal and weird when I write it out, but it’s just normal now.
“Want to have individual time after dinner and then watch a movie?”
“Yep, I’ll watch a show/play a round of video games/read my book for a while and then we can watch the movie.”
Sometimes we do working-next-to-each-other time, and again, it’s a bit of a cheeky invitation or declaration to confirm that the other person is going to continue their own activity, and you don’t plan to interrupt or require attention while sitting together. This is nice because we still touch each other’s hand sometimes or sit close, so it’s pleasant without being overly involved.
Anonymous
As an introvert who have tried so hard to explain why needing individual time is not a rejection – thank you.
Anonymous
I’ve been with my husband for over 20 years and we probably spend more time not talking than talking. The phrase is “companionable silence.”
Anonymous
Oh, I like that phrase. It is an apt descriptor of how I feel about it.
Anon
Is it working for your relationship? It sounds like the answer is yes. I wouldn’t worry over this if so.
Cat
if this is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Anon
Sounds fine to me. I often wonder if introverts feel like they are doing social interaction wrong because the “rules” are created by extroverts.
Anonymous
I agree with you, but I also would not define either of us as an introvert. I think some people do think I am because I am a strong believer in the idea that one gets taken more seriously if one only speaks when she has something of value to say, and I employ that fiercely at work, but I don’t think loquacious is the best indicator of extroversion.
Vicky Austin
It’s my favorite way of being together: just being, together.
Also, as a parent of a toddler, it sounds blissful, not odd.
Anonymous
Just being. Together.
Yes. Thank you.
Anon
Can’t imagine having to chat with my partner all the time
Anon
I recently broke up with someone and looking back, I realized how exhausted and mentally drained I was on weekends because we were constantly talking
Anon
That wouldn’t be the right relationship for me, my husband and I talk constantly, but if it works for you, who cares what I like.
Anon
Serious question: why are equestrian sports part of the olympics? Isn’t the horse the real athlete, not the rider?
Anonymous
It’s because rich white people like horses. The way they fly those animals into cities is absolutely insane, so many carbon emissions and so much animal cruelty.
Anon
Do the horses get medals?? They should if they don’t.
Anon
I do like that Isabel talks about how she and Wendy won. They both did.
To answer OP’s question, riding dressage is an extremely athletic event. You’re controlling the horse with minimal visible movement. It takes tons of practice and abs of steel.
Anon
I want every single person who says “the horse does all the work” to go ride for three hours off the couch and get back to me. I don’t care if it’s in the Olympics or not, but people who have never been on a horse in their lives sure have a lot to say on how they think it’s so easy.
Anon
Right! It’s not like sitting on a chair the whole time. The rider is doing a lot.
Anon
I’ve seen people sneer that the horse does all the work and then literally fall to the ground after dismounting from a 2-hour trail ride on vacation at a dude ranch where all they did was walk. Gotta say it’s satisfying to see them learn how wrong they were.
Anonymous
It’s not that hard, I was a rider in my youth, I have loooots if experience.
Anon
Dressage?
Anon
Right, and I shot at tin cans in the field when I was younger. But that doesn’t mean Olympic shooting is easy.
emeralds
LOL
Anon
Especially the Olympic horses. . . . they can move! Sitting those big extended trots and canter strides is very hard work.
Anon
Well I didn’t actually say that, I fully agree that it’s a physical effort from the rider and not easy. The horse seems like such an incredibly important part of the equation, though. Way more important than the rider.
Anon
Both.
I have not done a lot of riding but my mother rode competitively for many years. It not just sitting on the horse. it is a lot of physical work. But in dressage, the signals the rider is giving the horse are supposed to be invisible so the changes in pressure from the rider’s thighs and how and where the rider is balanced are not visible.
Anon
+ 10000
I have a friend who does dressage. She needs an hour nap after an hour on the horse. It’s extremely athletic.
I feel like people making these comments are the equivalent of those memes of the guy eating Cheetos and calling gymnasts losers.
Anon
Yeah it’s a workout for both the horse and the rider
Gail the Goldfish
No. You need both a great horse and a great rider to compete at the Olympics (and fun side note, the cross country course for the Olympics is actually not the highest level of competition for cross country. The top level cross country courses are straight up insane). My heart rate monitor while riding will assure you it is very much a real sport that requires fitness, especially at that level.
Anon
This. My heart rate gets higher while riding than it does on the peloton. I cross train religiously to be fit enough to ride well.
anon for this
I disagree that the jockeys aren’t athletes here, but I’ve been thinking about sports in which there are external parties that can determine the outcome. In equestrianism, it’s the horse. In surfing, it’s the ocean. Not to diminish the athleticism of any individual person, but shouldn’t olympics be about the sheer ability of the athlete?
Anon
… but it takes ability for the athletes to deal with external conditions…
I’m unclear why a group of professional office workers who jog around the park are better able to judge what a sport is rather than the panels of experts who assemble for this purpose?
Anon
This is a huge theme in Greek mythology if you’re interested (maybe Ajax agrees with you!).
Anecdata
^Tons of sports are influenced by factors outside of just the athlete – pretty much anything with equipment (bikes, running shoes, skis), and it seems like it takes pretty constant finessing to keep the balance right (like deciding whether speed swimsuits are allowed or not)
Or another group is sports where only the coach can request video review — I watched the tae kwon do finals last night and was surprised at what a big factor it was
Anon
It’s cooperation between horse and rider, and the breeding and training of horses is a competition in itself.
Anon
I guess that’s part of my point. Should breeding and training horses really be an Olympic sport?
Anon
My answer is yes. It’s a tradition worth preserving, and it’s part of the ancient heritage of the Olympic games. I’d like to see the equestrian sports become less Eurocentric though.
Anon
I kind of wonder if they’d ever include other animal sports, like falconry.
Anon
Tell me you’ve never ridden a horse without telling me you’ve never ridden a horse. Also, FYI, the medal is awarded to the couple (horse and rider). Which makes sense, because every equestrian knows that it takes both a good horse and a good rider to win. If you sat an inexperienced rider on one of these Olympian horses, they would not make it out of the gate.
Anon
Lol of course people are getting defensive about horse riding.
Anon
Even defending dressage! The only sport less stupid than dressage was ski ballet.
Anon
well of course I meant the opposite. ironic :)
Anon
Dressage has its issues but stupidity is not one of them.
Anon
Is it not literal horse dancing?
Anon
I know it’s funny to make fun of dressage as literal horse dancing, but it’s a test of cooperative riding and how precisely the horse and rider and work together. It takes a lot of fitness from both. And I know there have been scandals because of cruel methods of horse training, but dressage is also used in rescue and rehab. It gives the horse a mental puzzle to work through and get better at, and it helps them build a positive relationship with a rider. Riding and training are still the foundation for the showier sports.
anon
“Is it not literal horse dancing?”
No. Do you think horses can literally dance? Come ON.
Anonymous
It’s because OP hit a nerve. There’s a very specific type of suburban woman who thinks she’s supreme athlete at the barn every weekend.
Anon
Your condescending tone is not as cool as you think it is and does not reflect well on you. Thinking the only people who ride are “a specific type of suburban woman” suggests a very limited worldview.
Anonymous
I actually have a very broad world view that doesn’t include abusing animals for tradition.
Anon
It’s pretty obnoxious that you’re reducing horse sports to a slam on women, when nearly half of dressage and most jumping sports competitors at the Olympics are men.
Anon
And I’m not even a fan of horse sports — just saying if you’re going to criticize, surely you can find a less misogynistic and more intelligent way to do it.
Anon
It’s because people tend to get really annoyed when people who know nothing about a sport express their ignorant opinion on it, and for horseback riding, this particular opinion is very common. It’d be like if a non-parent kept saying to a parent “can’t you just skip naps?” or “you should tell him to just stop throwing a tantrum.” Parents get that a lot, and it grates.
Xenophon’s Horse
This whole thread is making me laugh, I just went and checked my recollection . The origins of dressage are widely believed to be from the Greek general Xenophon who wrote “On Horsemanship” in 400 BC or so. He describes jumping and cross country racing as part of the training for war horses, as well as some of the exercises that are still part of dressage. Also chariot racing and horse racing quickly became part of the Olympiad games pretty early – as in Ancient Greece pretty ealry. Taking aim at horses and dressage as “not really belonging in the Olympics” is a pretty bold opinion.
Runcible Spoon
And the horse dancing (dressage)!
ToS
The riders actually do a lot, and work in partnership with the horse. Horses can also be swapped out at the last moment. There is a recent documentary Para Gold that actually does a lot to explain what the riders do.
Also, any sport that could have someone falling from a horse almost has more risk than American football.
Anon
Since we’re discussing Olympics, I think it’s awful the way the two female boxers are being tormented for having elevated testosterone. They were born female, have female organs and private parts, and the idea of being relentlessly targeted because of something as invasive as their hormone results feels cruel. One of them has expressed how increasingly distressed she is. I think the right would have loved to have actual trans people in the Olympics so they’d have something to rage about, but that this was a way to drum up the same type of ire when there really isn’t a controversy. You can have XY chromosomes and still all the parts of a woman – it’s just a genetic variation but doesn’t change that you’re female.
Senior Attorney
+1,000
Anon
I agree she isn’t trans but I think it’s more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. She’s intersex and has XY chromosomes and some male parts. It’s not clear to me it’s fair for her to compete with women, and I don’t see the argument that she’s been beaten by cis women as dispositive because high level female athletes can often beat lower level men.
Anon
No one ever claimed that either was tr@ns – they are males with what is colloquially known as “intersex” conditions.
Anon
Lots of people on the right – and some on the left, including the Boston Globe! – have described her as t r a n s.
Anon
Agree with this.
Anon
I just don’t want to live in a culture where AFAB women who identify as women undergo this kind of scrutiny in case something was missed, all on the premise that men are better! Imagine finding out about an intersex condition this way.
Anon
Agree 100%.
Michael Phelps is genetically advantaged – extremely long wingspan, double jointed ankles, extremely low production of lactic acid.
If you’re going to bitch and moan about these FEMALE boxers, then let’s DNA test everyone for “unfair” advantages. All elite athletes have genetic advantages of some form or another.
Anon
Tell me you don’t understand the massive variations between the sexes without telling me that.
Anon
Missy Franklin and Ryan Lochte are the same height, have the same wingspan, had the same extensive support and training, and both held world records in the 200m backstroke. Lochte’s record was 1:52 and Franklin’s 2:04, which is about half a lap. Her time would be the lowest in the field if she were in a pool with top men.
Anon
Exactly my point.
I find this whole line of reasoning by women to be irritating. It’s like, honey, if we actually took your nonsense at face value and eliminated separate sports for women, girls’ participation in sports would end around eighth grade. They would almost all be cut from every team after that.
Anon
Yup. Serena Williams, who is arguably the greatest female tennis player of all time and certainly the best in a generation, lost to a man barely ranked in the top 200. She could beat 99% of men at tennis, yes, and Joe Shmoe who plays tennis three days a week before work is absolutely delusional if he thinks he could beat her. But the best female athletes cannot compete with the best male athletes due to biological differences.
Anon
Yep to all that. The U.S. women’s soccer team lost to a bunch of high school boys the same way. I don’t know if it was a charity match or what, but it was very clear.
Trah
https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Anonymous
The IOC actually used to do genetic testing for $ex, which seems one objective and fair measure.
Anonymous
What’d the test for, though? Chromosomes? SRY gene? The more we learn about the genetics of sex, the more complicated it gets. It’s a tricky topic and I don’t know what the “right” answer is on this one.
Anonymous
Chromosomes. It’s not the only answer but it is one objective measure among a handful that should be tested.
I would be in favor of relabeling the men’s division to “open.” This would highlight that women’s sports are about biology, not gender identity. Anyone with a female body, female genes, AND female hormones should be able to participate in women’s sports, and anyone with a male body, male genes, and/or male hormones should feel welcome to compete in the open division regardless of gender identity.
Anon
The open division is the only way. I’ve never heard a valid argument against it, frankly.
And yes, starting with chromosome testing is the way to go.
Anon
This just isn’t true. The DSD we’re discussing here causes the person to be born with external genitalia which appears closer to female, but they do have male organs and go through what is effectively male puberty. It’s a bad, sympathetic situation, and reasonable minds can differ about how the rules should apply, but it’s not true to say that they were born female (even if they outwardly appeared so), and the frequent tendency of so many to spread misinformation like this post makes people increasingly wary of these situations.
Anon
+1. You can fool all of the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. Misinformation, shutting down conversations, and shouting down opposing views will never prevail.
Anonymous
The BBC has an even handed discussion of how this has been handled in track. Look for the Q and A about Caster Semenya. Swimming has similar rules. The boxing federation is being supervised by the IOC and from their minutes it doesn’t need look like they had a very thoughtful rules adoption process, so the IOC didn’t have a clear set of rules to apply. Hopefully the association will be better managed moving forward and everyone will know what the playing field is.
Anon
Yes are we now going to be testing the testosterone levels of every Olympian? It just seems so invasive
Anon
It’s not testosterone, it’s genome. And Olympians already have a battery of testing done. This is not invasive.
Anon
+1. A simple blood test checking chromosomes is far less invasive than the anti-doping protocols. This argument has never held water.
Anon
You have no idea how athletic drug testing works. They have to be willing to do it on demand! Like, “You have 24 hours to report to a facility and submit to a drug test.”
Anon
I absolutely agree with you.
Anon
I think this isn’t quite right. They’ve been raised as women and identify as women, and should be called women, but it’s most likely that they’re biologically intersex and do actually have testes. I’m not 100% sure that’s the case here because the reporting has been so bad and nonspecific, but that’s generally the explanation in these cases. These athletes aren’t men, but they very possibly do have a real advantage over XX women with female organs and hormones.
Anon
Women can have XY chromosomes and not have testes. The idea of speculating that she COULD have testes is so beyond invasive and bizarre.
Anon
It’s possible that she doesn’t have testes, but then she wouldn’t have elevated testosterone. But that’s the explanation for elevated testosterone, it’s not just slightly high randomly. And I agree, it is a little gross to be speculating about this. It’s definitely wrong the way that these cases have been handled and unfair to the athletes that this gets litigated in public. It would be much better if this was handled privately. My understanding is that this mostly happens to athletes from poorer countries because people in richer countries with better healthcare systems usually know that they have these conditions much sooner (certainly when they don’t go through female puberty).
Anon
Not every culture agrees that medicalization is the right approach (why even call something a “condition” if it’s not causing any suffering that’s not societally imposed?). I just heard a veterinarian confess that it’s not that uncommon when fixing animals for the humane society to find that some are intersex, but they just fix them anyway and move on. For humans it’s often a choice whether to make it an issue.
Anon
That’s fair. It’s not necessarily a big deal for life in general, but it would affect their ability to have children and is obviously relevant to their ability to compete as a female athlete at the highest level (which affects relatively few people, but there have been a surprisingly large number of intersex athletes in some sports, like middle distance running, which is one of the reasons why it seems likely it could be a significant advantage). I think most people would rather know about that at age 12 or 13 than find out when they become an international news story. It’s debatable whether it’s fair for them to compete as women (probably varies from sport to sport, the science is still a little unclear), but I think it’s really awful how this gets handled publicly and the way these women are treated.
Anonanonanon
Are there any studies on what advantage they might have?
Anonanonanon
Replying to myself, I did find some research although still seems like it’s mostly an area for further research.
Anon
Almost everything men have is an advantage – increased musculature, larger hearts, longer and bigger bones, no menstrual cycles, greater grip strength, lower body fat, the list goes on.
Anon
I guess I really missed the boat being female!
Anonanonanon
I meant the advantages of intersex in particular. The studies on that are mixed.
Vicky Austin
I think the reporting did both of them a massive disservice, portraying the events like Khelif was some big beefy brute pounding on an innocent woman, and Carini was a crybaby who couldn’t handle it and threw a hissy fit. Neither of those things turned out to be true.
I will say that the Int’l Boxing Association, which ruled last year that Khelif and another athlete had testosterone high enough to be considered an “unfair advantage,” appears to have different standards than the IOC. (That other athlete was also cleared to compete in Paris this year.) That’s a different question than the “muh that’s not a woman” debate that sucked so many folks in.
PolyD
Even testosterone levels might not be accurate. There are syndromes where the androgen receptor doesn’t work, so these people would be insensitive to the effects of androgen. They would be XY and maybe have internal testes, but externally would look exactly like a woman. And they’d in a sense have less effective testosterone than a “normal” woman – women also make testosterone and have androgen receptors, but if your androgen receptor is completely nonfunctional, you can make buckets of testosterone your body won’t respond to it.
Google androgen insensitivity syndrome. You’ll also find all sorts of speculations that Jamie Lee Curtis has this.
Vicky Austin
That’s interesting! But I was trying to call attention to the fact that the IBA and the IOC clearly have different standards on this, which – is that unfair? I don’t know.
Anon
That’s interesting! But I was trying to call attention to the fact that the IBA and the IOC clearly have different standards on this, which – is that unfair? I don’t know.
Vicky Austin
I didn’t post this – something must be bugging.
Anon
They were chromosome tests the IOC is choosing not to repeat.
Anon
“Appears to have different standards” is quite a euphemism. The IBA was banned in 2019 decertified by the Olympic Committee last year for reasons that have nothing to do with Khelif. The supposed DNA results showing XY chromosomes were never published, but conveniently the ‘test results’ were publicized after Khelif defeated a Russian boxer.
Anon
You know an easy way to settle the matter? Run another blood test. It’s not different from the anti-doping tests all athletes have to do to participate in the Olympics and it’s not painful or invasive. The fact that the IOC won’t is pretty telling.
Anon
We don’t even have proof of the results of the first blood test. Show that one, then get back to us.
Anon
They’re protected by NDAs. Of course the world would be in an uproar if those were violated – and they shouldn’t be if they were signed. The IOC must require its own test.
Anon
The IOC doesn’t have any rules that would disqualify her even if they did repeat the test – their position is that they require the athlete’s passport to match their competition category, and everything else should be figured out by the relevant sports governing body (based on the reasonable logic that exactly which DSDs constitute an unreasonable advantage – as opposed to a normal advantage, which, as many have already pointed out, is impossible to fully remove from elite sports anyway -is going to vary sport by sport. For example, the track & field governing association found that elevated testosterone only confers an unreasonable advantage in middle distance races – it’s less important in sprints and long distances, so there aren’t testosterone limits on female athletes in those categories. But boxing
doesn’t have a recognized international governing body right now; and the IOC doesn’t want to wade in to refereeing difficult edge cases, and the end result is the athletes bear the consequences of the uncertainty playing out in a very public way, which is wildly unfair to all of them
Anon
My extremely hot take on this is that my opinion doesn’t matter, because I’m not getting punched in the face. I think the women who are getting punched in the face, and not generic “sports officials”, should be empowered to decide who punches them in the face by forming committees and setting rules (in consultation with physicians, scientists, whoever else they choose to consult). If the competitor has cleared the rules set by the women who are going to get punched in the face, who am I to weigh in?
I worry that men and non-competing women are making these decisions, and I assume none of us here are competing in the sport. Let the competitors choose.
(I have a different opinion for non-violent sports, but for violent sports, it seems pretty clear cut that the people on the receiving end of the violence should be able to choose, as a group, what they are and aren’t consenting to).
Anon
Tamikka Brents might have something to say about that. Her opponent who caused the damage bragged about it.
Anon
I think she’s a pro, right? I may be totally wrong, but I think pros usually have more say in who they fight than amateurs. I’m saying the amateurs that compete at the Olympics should be the ones setting the rules for who can compete at the Olympics.
But I certainly think she (and any other women on her circuit!) is better positioned to have an opinion than I am!
Anonymous
I told my husband yesterday. If the IOC said she is a woman and is qualified to fight that is all I need to know. If I were her, I’d be humiliated that the entire world was talking about my gender, generalist, DNA makeup, looks, etc.
Anon
The IOC based their decision on her passport. It says “female.” The banned boxing organization has never specified why they banned Imane.
Anonymous
what is your biggest pet peeve about clothing today (just one!)
for me it’s all of the cropped or form-fitting styles around the belly – it’s my least favorite body part.
Anon
Ankle pants as the default. They don’t flatter me and they make comfortable shoes (with comfortable socks) look awkward.
Runcible Spoon
My theory is that clothing manufacturers and sellers have promoted cropped trousers so that they don’t have to offer a variety of inseams. It’s much easier to mass-produce one length of pants leg called “cropped.”
Anon
Thin, crappy material even on pricy items. The quality of fabric took a nose dive with the 2008 financial drop and never came back.
Anon
The lack of tailored pants that fit middle age bodies. I don’t like that sagging butt look, but cannot size down because of the waist and my shifting body. I swear I cannot find pants that don’t have this problem unless they are spandex heavy, and that has its own set of problems.
Anon
Gapey slash pockets.
anon
ruffle puff
Anon
+1
Although no one in my circles wears it, so it shocks me even more when I see someone who does.
Anon
Even the “good” brands make crappy clothing now. Everything is sloppily sewed and made.
Anon
That’s mine.
Anon
Boxy fits and puffy sleeves
Anon
Square necklines that are unflattering and can’t be worn with a regular bra. I have no idea what women are supposed to wear under those. If anyone can recommend a balconette bra that actually doesn’t show I’m all ears
Anonymous
White t-shirts that are see-through. I’m so tired of not being able to order something online in white because you never know how solid or sheer unless someone references it in their reviews. I also am tired of t-shirts that are too boxy and/or aren’t long enough.
Attorney
Polyester everything.
Anon
Petty but I really am curious. Why do so many rich celebrities have such awful fake tans?
Abandon
They’re old. It was “in” to be tan in about the 1980s. My grandma tanned so much I can still smell the cocoa butter just thinking about it. Today it’s fake since we know so much about how unhealthy it is.
Abandon
Also, it was seen as a sign of prestige that a person could lounge in the sun all day. Everyone was thought to look better with a “healthy glow.”
Anonymous
Trump is the only one i can think of – which other celebs have awful fake tans?
I think the general feeling is that a tan makes you look healthier and skinnier. i wish we were more like korea or japan though and avoided the sun like the plague.
Anon
George Hamilton?
Senior Attorney
Is he even still alive? (Yes, just looked it up — he’s 84.)
Anon
I think his was real, unfortunately. His skin looked like a paper bag by age 40.
Anon
Haha I’m so paranoid about the sun and bathe my kid in sunscreen and always make her wear wide-brimmed hats. Americans think I’m weird (especially where I live in the Midwest where pink skin is a point of pride). My Chinese friend is always congratulating me on keeping my kid pale. She was so amazed (in a good way) to see my kid did not tan this summer at al. I would fit in very well in Asia.
Anonymous
Yeah, but in Asia that is about racism so maybe step back from that.
Anon
I understand there’s a racial context in Asia but I’m concerned about skin cancer, which runs in my family. I want my kids pale for reasons that have nothing to do with racism.
Anon
A lot of commenters here have a very weird complex about the sun. It’s essential for life and your skin should get some of it.
Anon
No one is suggesting hiding inside. People who go about normal daily life get plenty of Vitamin D even with sunscreen, hats and sun protective clothing. There are myriad studies that show this. Unnecessary exposure to UV radiation does nothing except increase your risk of skin cancer and age your skin prematurely. You do you, but I’m 40 and can really see my use of sunscreen and hats paying off aging-wise, to say nothing of the cancer risk.
Anon
Honestly, I tend to agree. Sun safety goes too far sometimes. I know people who will literally not go outside in summer and I think that isn’t good for you.
Anonymous
You need vitamin D more than you think and sun exposure is the best way to get it. This sounds overboard. Reminds me of the whole low fat movement from prior years that’s now being debunked.
Anon
Nah, it’s the opposite. The idea that you need direct sunlight for Vitamin D is what’s been debunked. “Studies have never found that everyday sunscreen use leads to vitamin D insufficiency.” https://www.skincancer.org/blog/sun-protection-and-vitamin-d/
If you’re spending time outside, you’re getting plenty of Vitamin D in the sunny months, even with sunscreen use. You can also supplement with Vitamin D pills, which is a good idea for most people in winter.
Anon
Seemingly half the clingers in Trump’s circle, too, to be honest.
I don’t mean people who use self tanner in a normal way, I mean the unnatural metallic color that looks like the person got themselves bronzed like a pair of baby shoes.
Thinking of this b/c my firm’s owners (Forbes wealth rankings list regulars) recently updated their headshots and they look like they must stain anything they touch. It is such a weird look, not at all flattering.
Anon
They need fake tans because people finally understand the linkage between sun exposure and premature aging. They overdo it because they think it needs to look bolder to translate on camera, or it’s the same dysmorphia that afflicts people who end up with clownish lip injections over time
Seventh Sister
While I will be sad when my kid goes off to college, I will be so.freaking.delighted to get away from the competitive high school parents. Seriously, these people have no idea what my kids’ graders are like, how she does in particular classes, and I really don’t need to hear them talk about how their kid is soooooo much more brilliant and advanced, my kid should really “watch out” about particular classes, and so on and so forth. It’s so tiresome. Can anyone else relate?
Anon
My daughter began college a year early and never let on to any classmates that she was applying. While I was sad that I had her at home for one less year, I was overjoyed for her and selfishly to avoid all of the college application stress, gossip and bragging. That part was fabulous.
Seventh Sister
The bragging KILLS me. I don’t rattle off all my kids’ accomplishments, why do these women do it?
Runcible Spoon
British author Celia Fremlin called it the “Cat Race.”
anonshmanon
Sounds like some Narcissa Malfoy BS to me.
Seventh Sister
For sure. And their kids are just…fine? Not leagues and bounds above my kid for sure. And why am I comparing teenagers ?!!!! I was a wreck as a teenager, I turned out okay.
Anon
Ugh that’s so annoying. At least it didn’t start until high school? My friends in the Bay Area have been dealing with this sort of ultra competitive parenting since their kids were in K.
anon
My mom was one of these parents.
I don’t have to deal with much of it because I intentionally chose a neighborhood and school where families are not into to playing competitive achievement as a sport using their kids as proxies. When it does occasionally happen it just gets a giant eye roll from me. I’m sorry you had to deal with this, and yes I’m sure it will be very refreshing to not have to deal with that type of culture anymore.
Anon
My parents (for boomers) were hugely invested in where we went to college/how much scholarship money we got/how many awards we won/how high our GPAs were. I went low/no contact multiple times about their behavior and it’s only gotten slightly better in their late 70s.
The (slight?) upside is that they pushed me as a girl just as hard if not harder than my brother to get excellent grades and have a big career. Many of my extended family saw college as optional or just for getting an MRS degree. My aunts/uncles/cousins report to my parents that they’re proud of me and know that I do well but they’re kind of politely baffled as to why I need/want to have the type of career I do. Sigh.
Seventh Sister
I’m one of two girls and my parents were very much the same way. While I appreciate how hard they worked to pay for our educations and wanted us to dream big, I’m definitely more interested in my kids doing something they like and being financially self-sufficient.
Seventh Sister
You’re very lucky. My kids went to a lower-stress elementary and the parents at the middle school are generally lovely. The high school is big and there are probably just a couple dozen kids per class who are focused on selective four-year colleges, but the atmosphere with those parents can get pretty toxic. Some of them just seem determined to p**p in the punch bowl as well.
Anonymous
My daughter is off to college this fall. We live in a weird area where there are some snowplow parents but also a lot of people who are, for lack of a better description, proud to be ignorant and uneducated and often just plain dumb. My daughter is attending an excellent SLAC that is a perfect fit for her, with a massive merit scholarship. The snowplow parents are smirking that she isn’t going to a truly fancy school (she didn’t like the culture of the ones we visited and didn’t apply), while the majority of the parents are asking why we are sending her to some snooty private school out of state. Only a few people, mainly people in the field for which the school is known and highly educated people who aren’t originally from this place, get it.
I am so tired of hearing from one side how we shouldn’t have pushed our daughter to do her best and earn her IB diploma and should have let her take four non-academic electives her senior year instead, and from the other side hearing one snowplow mom tout all of her daughter’s “achievements” that she herself engineered (especially since the kid didn’t really achieve anything of substance on her own and the college admissions offices seem to have figured that out). I don’t think it will end now that they’ve graduated from high school, though. All of these parents are in my social circle and will continue to denigrate our child-driven parenting choices no matter what. At least I don’t have to keep dealing with the guidance counselor telling my daughter that Last Chance State U (not even Highly-Ranked Flagship State U, whose offer of admission to its honors program she turned down) would be an excellent fit for her.
Anon
Did your daughter and I have the same guidance counselor? Her shtick was pushing everyone to the local community college no matter their interests, aptitude, goals, or finances. She was 100% not helpful.
Seventh Sister
I’ve wound up explaining to my kid that the entire guidance office is really about checking off a box – for their purposes, it’s about being able to say that a kid graduated from high school and has a career plan or an intended college. Princeton = Saying you’ll attend Local Community College for their purposes.
Seventh Sister
Ugh, I’m so sorry. It sounds like your daughter is going to a great place for her! That sounds a bit like our school’s dynamic – several well-known snowplow parents who make me want to leap out of the nearest window when I see them coming. What unnerves me is that a few of them did manage to their kids into Ivy-type schools (which my kid is interested in). That said, at least one of the snowplow’s kids had a nepo-baby-adjacent connection.
Seventh Sister
*manage to get their
Anon.
The Race to the Top is making their kids sick. We resisted the pressure to have our son do all AP classes in high school. He even took auto shop despite being on a college track. Still got a scholarship to a state school.
Seventh Sister
My cousin did that because he genuinely loves cars! He has a PhD in something like Superhard Futuristic Biochemistry and does something really cutting-edge that I barely understand. I don’t think taking one less AP hurt him one bit (and probably helped him).
Suburban
Yes. My kid went on a trip with a group outside of school, missed a Friday and a Monday, and at pickup all the parents were saying how stressed out their kid would be having to make up all their quizzes and tests, because their kid always does their homework and likes to do well in their classes.
Ok? My kid does too but it’s not stressful and I don’t think it’s worth talking about? It just kind of goes without saying and isn’t a conversation point to me or our family
Anon
Can you just opt out? Not participating in what you don’t enjoy seems to be a wink g play.
Anonymous
out of curiosity has anyone tried the savagexfenty lingerie subscription? i was about to buy two bras after twitter ads, when i realized it was a subscription model
Anon
I know that at least some pieces are sold at Nordstrom, but have never tried any.
Anon
Why don’t older public figures like Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders have wrinkles and sagging skin? Did they get face lifts, or do they get other regular face treatments?
Anon
are we looking at the same Bernie Sanders?
Anon
Joe Biden has definitely had face lifts. I think multiple. Also men generally have less skin elasticity and fewer wrinkles than women. And yeah Bernie looks very old to me.
Anon
Biden has definitely had work done. Bernie just looks like an old man to me, though.
Anonymous
Bernie has too white teeth, but other than that looks like a normal old man. I suppose he might be botoxing the frowns, but he looks quite normal and healthy in photos.
Anon.
We had to push my husband’s dentist to make his dentures look more like his real teeth including the longer incisors and not so white so he would still look like himself. They look so real and good!
Anon
Biden does not look natural to me. He looks like he has had a lot of work over the years.
Bernie looks like normal, like he hasn’t tried to medically sustain a youthful look.
Anon
His face got noticeably tighter recently. He’s had a lot of work done.
Anon
Not to mention his hair, which was noticeably thinner in the 1990s.
Anon
In 2016, he did too. Whoever does his work generally does a good job, but they needed to do it a few weeks earlier before big camera appearances than they did. One of his best assets is a generally kind eye, and his crow’s feet being frozen during the first debate (in 2016) is something that stood out to me in a bad way.
If I ever had work done, I’d want to figure out who HRC’s people are. The work she has ahead of high profile stretches of time is always really, really good.
Anon
Facelifts are way more common than you might realize with older celebs and public figures.
Anonymous
how do you know if a dog is depressed? we just got a puppy and i’m always alarmed when he’s just chilling in the corner staring into space. i’m not sure if i’m expecting him to read the paper or what.
Anon
I don’t think most dogs have enough brain cells to develop depression. Staring into space contentedly is what we should all be aspiring to in life.
Anon
This
Brontosaurus
Our three-year-old dog loves nothing more than to stare out the window for hours on end. No thoughts, just window.
Anon
This
Anon
Puppies are still babies! He’s not depressed, he’s just chilling and trying to figure out the world.
Anecdata
Most (happy, healthy!) adult dogs I know also seem pretty content to spend large chunks of time just chilling, watching the world go by, “napping” without actually sleeping. Dogs need some kind of mental stimulation which varies a lot by breed and individual dog, but for most that means something like a walk with opportunities to sniff around, a few short play sessions throughout the day and some training sessions throughout the day, not like “is doing something all the time”
Anon
Is he bored? Sighing, flopping his head on his feet and whimpering? Behaving destructively? Acting distressed in some other way?
If not, then he’s likely just content.
Anon
Is he happy when you pet him/play with him? I wouldn’t worry about a dog chilling as long as he’s eating well and happy at normal happy dog things.
Anonymous
I would consider yourself lucky that he isn’t literally eating your walls. I have a livestock guardian dog whom we affectionately call “the throw rug.” A dog that is happy to hang out calmly most of the time, but also likes to go for walks and play, is the absolute best kind of dog.
Anon
LOL to your first two sentences! I had a malamute that ate walls and stair carpets. In a rental. THEN turn into an innocent throwrug.
Anonymous
If the dog were having psychological issues he’d express them as separation anxiety, which is the exact opposite of just chilling in the corner staring into space.
Anon
Certain controversial topics are off-limits here and if you express an opposing viewpoint, your comment will never make it through. Certain threads even get locked down. Just in case anyone thinks “everyone agrees with me!” on a thread, you’re not seeing the whole story.
Anon
Given how the opinions that make it through just fine, I can only imagine how bad what someone said must have been to have required intervention! I don’t feel a need for edgier takes than what I see here (and where are these long threads characterized by everyone agreeing? I seldom see those even when the thread is actually about fashion!).
Anon
+ 1,000. I’ve seen plenty of controversial opinions, as well as many explicit topics broached, so I can’t imagine what kind of hateful nonsense you’d have to be spewing to get caught permanently in mod.
Anon
Is that why every single poster has to spell out tr@nz and g*nd*r? It’s incredibly heavy-handed.
anonshmanon
those posts are not blocked though, they go into m0deration and usually appear within 1-2 hours. You can find that heavy handed but I appreciate that there is an effort to do some m0deration, which is always going to be a flawed system.
Anon
They don’t always get approved though. I’ve had a few that didn’t — one was (politely) critical of Kat, so at least there the reason was obvious, but there were a couple more that weren’t approved and I had no idea why. They had nothing to do with any of the “hot button” issues.
Anon
Same, Anon at 6:56.
Anonymous
Same, especially ones about weight. They never get posted at all.
Anon
It’s almost like it is a privately-managed forum, eh?
Anon
Right. Maybe not the right place for OP. The internet is large – go out and find something better, OP.
Anonymous
I’ve been a reader for an embarrassingly long time and Kat only censors truly abhorrent stuff. You can be a garden variety *ss and your comments will be posted just fine.
Anon
Totally agree.
It seems like maybe OP wanted to start sh1t & didn’t get the reaction he/she hoped for.
Anon
Sure – “your husband is a selfish d*ck and you should divorce him” will always make it through. “Women deserve protections based on their sex class” is 50/50.
Anon
Explain what that has to do with fashion for work.
Anon
That’s a disingenuous argument though — since the beginning of this page >95% of the comments have not been about fashion. Off topic comments are clearly allowed.
Anon
Fine with me! In fact I prefer it this way.
Anon
There’s actually a weird glitch that sometimes happens where you can see other people’s posts held in m0d (if you try to reply to one, it will tell you you can’t). After October 7 last year, I saw a lot of very reasonable posts held for hours while others were approved quickly.
Anon
It’s because they use word-based flagging for the queue, which is understandable given how small I’m assuming their mod team is.
Anon
Right, that’s how they would initially be flagged, but to approve some within 20 minutes and other reasonable ones within 6 hours is manual.
Anon
I’ve noticed that too. I’m a radical feminist and tried to post about it once but it was declined.
Anon
You’re not alone!
Anon
All over the internet moderators of widely varied outlooks and political views have had to create policies for movements that have earned a reputation for brigading, soapboxing, sock puppeting, etc. It’s something to reflect on.
Glistening Anon
Recs for active wear for those who sweat a lot? (Not medically a lot, just more than the average person.)
I’ve started getting back into fitness classes and prefer to walk to class (~20-30 mins away) and arrive sweaty, plus sweat during class, and want to avoid obvious sweat marks.
I love alo airbrush capris for their thicker compressed feel, but they have so few colors. I usually wear lululemon swift tops in darker colors and those work okay, but would like to try other brands.
Anonymous
I like UA Heatgear, but because they are there nner not thicker
Glistening Anon
Thank you! Had completely forgotten about UA
Anon
Dark, busy prints so sweat isn’t so obvious? Otherwise, just embrace it.
Anon
+1. I gave up wearing anything other than dark colors to Orange Theory. I wore cute light pink leggings once to a Tornado class and came out looking like I had wet myself (I blame the rowers but I was legit sweating a LOT). The cute, light colored athleisure is for yoga, pilates, or weekend errands.
Anon
When I complete a workout, if there is any spot on my clothes that is not visibly soaked, it’s a tiny spot where my bra holds my clothes away from my body, between the hills. Usually that is soaked, too, which is actually better because then it just looks like I am wearing darker clothes. For me, it is unrealistic to try and hide it, so I tune it out.
Anonymous
Man, this afternoon’s feed is exhausting. So much policing…
Anonymous
So much performative sighing . . .
Anon
I get really tired of regular posters doing that. It adds nothing to be like “can we not” or “this again, sigh” and using a fake name instead of Anon doesn’t give you any greater authority to express an opinion. Sometimes people act like it does.
Anon
I’m with you there. Named commenters get a pass so frequently.
Anon
Sure. Get a screen name. Do it. Then everyone will know who the tr011 is when they see your name.
Anon
Can everyone share their favorite topic/question for small talk among your extended family? I’m going to a family reunion this weekend. I love my family (and thank god we’re mostly on the same side politically) but we don’t get together as frequently with age/distance so I’d love to have some deeper chats vs. updating them on family/work stuff.
Anon
Olympic events would be the easy one. Simone Biles might be safer than some of the stuff on today’s thread.
Runcible Spoon
A good question to kick off a conversation which also works for work-related receptions is some version of, “Are you going to be able to get away for the holidays?”
Senior Attorney
What are you binging on TV these days?
Anon
Travel is my go-to
Anon
All about books they have read or want to read, what interesting facts they have learned lately? Mine is that researchers just discovered that Komodo dragons have iron coated teeth.
Senior Attorney
Oh, that’s a good one! (the topic and the fun fact!)
Anon.
I would freeze, not have an answer about a book I finished last week, and be worried you would think I was an idiot. I hate interrogation type of small talk. Don’t ask about me. Tell me about yourself.
Anon
Same
Anon
“How did grandma and grandpa meet each other!” Turned out to be a great conversation in a small family group recently.
Anecdata
As a slightly deeper follow up, I like asking people what’s surprised them the most, or how has it compared to what they expected, questions about “life update” events (eg. moved to a new city, new job, big trip, etc)
Anon
I wish that I had spent more time listening to my older relatives. Asking about their lives. Their childhood, their adventures, their relationships, their life paths, their advice. The stories. They’re all gone… most too young. People are interesting. It’s good to learn where your family came from.
Senior Attorney
No kidding. My grandma was born in 1903 and I would give anything to have her back for half an hour so we could talk about the Spanish Flu pandemic (about which she never spoke a single word in my presence).
Anon
My (1906) grandmother grew up on the reservation and never spoke of it again.
Anon
Has anyone tried to wean themselves off of black as a default color choice? I am so black-heavy in my closet because:
Originally, it was hard to find navy shoes, which I thought I needed with navy suits when I started working (now I’d use cognac for the shoes or oxblood)
Because a dress might need to be an LBD and do double duty for day and night events back when I had night events and couldn’t get home to change
Because it makes you seem thinner
Because it is sophisticated
Because I once spent a lot of time in NYC where black = camouflage
And now black because it goes with my other black things.
Ugh. It would be weird with any other color. But it feels heavy. I don’t want to quit black but just not be quite so Moira Rose about it. Although she does it well — I am very sure that I don’t. I need a color intervention I think.
Anonymous
I have tried color so many times and I inevitably end up going back to black because it just looks so much better on me. I have finally decided to embrace it as my signature look. I do like to make sure the fabric and silhouette are appropriate to the season and the occasion. This summer, for example, I have in the rotation a black linen sundress, a black linen tunic dress, a black linen halter shift, a black cotton tiered mini dress with lace insets, and a black cotton knit tank midi dress.
Dresses like architect
Fellow black clothes wearer here. I try to break it up with colour elsewhere, like jewellery and make up, polished hair, nails etc (not all at once, but a little somewhere). Also some white has been easier to wear than colour. For some reason colour just feels intimidating and like too much effort…black, white, camel, crimson don’t seem to go out of style.
Anonymous
Is there another neutral you like? You might start there and see how it goes. I slowly added grey, then cream.
Anon
I’d be curious to hear from black wearers how you guys coordinate the different black shades? I am generally not an all-black wearer and on those days I need to look more serious or somber when I try to put together a black outfit the different black shades and textures really stand out to me. Maybe it’s OK and I’m just not used to it? I usually do black pants with a colored shell or blouse and gray, navy, or beige sweater, blazer, or jardigan, so wearing black pants with a black top is unusual for me and always presents this matching conundrum. I’m much more comfortable with a black top over jeans.
Worried
If I have a choice between purchasing a black item, or another dark shade, I would always go for the non black shades, or the more bright, colorful option. I wish there was more dark blue, eggplant or even dark burgundy available in basic pieces, but they usually sell out. The reason I have a few black items or seek darker shades, is usually for travel, or when I’m going somewhere where I may take transit, for example. I’ve tried to avoid wearing black near my face as it washes me out, but it’s hard, especially since I’m a 34 g and light coloured tops don’t have as good an opacity. I have very few black items, but it takes lots of effort to avoid, so I don’t worry if black pants are the only colour available in my size, and go with the flow if that’s the only option.
Anon
I was an all-black wearer and started introducing white – black and white look great together (for example, white dress and black jacket). Then I went in with pink (my favorite color and looks good with my pale complexion). Just add colors slowly, based on your complexion and what you like. I also like dark forest green and view it as a neutral.
Anon
I have pretty much erased black from my closet. I don’t think it looks good on me any more.
My decision coincided with a gradual weight loss on my part. So as I needed things like new pants I bought them in navy. It has been about a two year transition of both my body and wardrobe & I don’t miss the back at all.
Anonymous
Well, does it look good on you? I think that’s the most important thing. If you want to start to add colours, try some deep and murky neutrals that will work with black, one element. Like a very deep camel, burgundy, dark moss, steel, muddy teal, brass, dirty dark orange, i.e. a colour that has a little black in the mix, not a primary or candy colour. Cool or warm depending on your colouring. That will still be a sophisticated look, but not all black.
Interviews-but-not-offers
I am the interviews-but-not-offers poster from the 8th afternoon thread. First of all, thank you so much to those commenters who answered and made suggestions there and on the the 9th thread, I really appreciate your helpful and empathetic responses. I have been listening to “How Women Rise” suggested by one of the commenters and there are clear gems in there. My big takeaway from there as well as from NYNY’s advice from yesterday regarding finding a sponsor is I need to spend more time promoting myself. I am in a somewhat technical role (management of a technical team) and under me there is much more emphasis on quality of work than self-promotion. Above me there is very little emphasis on work quality and it’s all about highlighting accomplishments, some of which are objectively mediocre and provoke my internal eyerolls (I now see the value of killing this mindset completely). I am accountable for work quality and client communication, but I’m realizing that team- and self-promotion is just as, if not more, important to feed up the internal chain. I need to rebalance my time.
Another realization I’ve come to is that I need better salesmanship when it comes to strategic ideas. In many cases, I propose what seems like an obvious way to address a future issue (i.e. anticipated lack of specific job materials, or old-new worker wage disparities that will clearly lead to high turnover or unionization, or an obvious-to-me trend of client exiting a certain market, or a new revenue stream that doesn’t require additional hires) and my ideas are treated as radical and almost like meddling. Inevitably, I am right, and either the worst-case scenario happens or my ideas are adopted after several months of wishy washiness, and my boss takes the credit. In fact, there was one specific time during an annual review where he told me that a concrete savings idea we implemented, that I’d been pushing for before he joined the org, was his and not mine so I can’t put that in my YE accomplishments. I folded saying something like yes, he gets the credit for getting approval for it. Now I feel like an idiot. I can safely assume that all of my above issues with essentially communication translate into what yesterday’s 1:05 Anon mentioned regarding interviewees’ tendency to address the situation at hand rather than its future implications. So, lots to work on and I would love any additional strategy recommendations on this front.
Someone mentioned an executive coach – has anyone used one and can speak to what they were able to accomplish? I think there used to be a regular poster, Coach Laura, on here who maybe did something like this?
Again, thank you, various commenters, for your help! I can’t say how much I appreciate this community.
Anonymous
I used to wear more black in my 20s for the reasons you mention. I’m mid 30s now and I think life is too short to dress for others. The only black thing I like wearing are shoes, because they match my black hair. Anything in between needs to be colorful and comfortable.