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Weekend Open Thread

Caslon Embellished TankSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. Nordstrom Rack has some crazy sales going on — tons of lucky sizes under $40, and there seems to be tons of great stuff for plus-size, maternity, going-out clothes, weekend clothes, and yes, even working clothes. (Oh, and tons of high-end winter coats on sale for 60% off.) For this weekend, I'm liking this simple embellished tank — it's the perfect kind of thing to wear with jeans and heels on a night out with friends. (Its available in petite (pictured) and plus sizes.)  Was $39, now marked to $9.97 at Nordstrom Rack. Caslon Embellished Tank (L-2) P.S. If all goes well we'll be doing some tech stuff behind the scenes this weekend — it shouldn't interrupt the site availability too much, but if it does, please bear with us. Thank you in advance!

Sales of note for 12.2.24 (Happy Cyber Monday!! Deals just for Cyber Monday are in blue)

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

413 Comments

    2. Nice! The husband and I are heading over to OAK for the game in about two hours . . . .

  3. I just wanted to say that last week, I tried on an accessory that a friend/co-worker had. It didn’t look very good on me, so I gave it back.

    She said, “That’s because my style is kind of cutesy. Your style is much more sophisticated.”

    So for that, I thank this site. :)

  4. I had a second interview yesterday, ran home, wrote thank you notes, put them in my bag and on my way out the door, got a call that I was hired (yay!). I did not mail the notes. Should I do so today? (They feel silly, now, since I have the job).

    1. Congratulations! I’d still send the notes, just pretend you sent them first thing this morning if anyone asks.

      1. Congrats! Yes, just send them. Gosh the post office can be slow sometimes! ;) A nice way to remind your new coworkers that they made a great choice hiring a thoughtful and well mannered person.

    3. If you know you’re accepting, I’d probably write different notes. And congratulations!!

        1. Can vary but a generic would be something like: Thank you for taking the time to interview me for x position. I am very excited at the possibility of joining your organization/firm/etc. I very much enjoyed talking with you about x specific something you discussed. Follow up sentence if possible/applicable. Conclude with something you want to stress, if applicable. It was wonderful meeting you. Thank you again for your time. I hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, me.

  5. I’d like to take a quick poll of the lawyer corporettes. I’m thinking of moving at some point but I think I have it pretty good right now and I am wondering what it is like in other practice areas, geographic regions, firms, etc.

    1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner?
    2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any?
    3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you?
    4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement?
    5.) What are your typical hours?
    6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.)
    6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make?

    I’ll start –
    Associate, civil litigation defense, 1800 hours, mark downs count against me, pro bono/firm time does not count. I typically work 8:30 – 7:00 Mon-Fri. I’m in the Northeast, mid sized firm. I make $75k.

        1. 1. Court Attorney, Trial Level State Court, Gen Practice Area, everything from MedMal to Free Speech issues, no criminal or family law.
          2. No billable req., 35 hr workweek.
          3. N/A
          4. Not allowed to do pro bono in most senses, considered a conflict given position. Anything else I would do, such as teaching, would not count. CLEs are on work time, though.
          5. Typical Hrs: 9-5, or 9:30-5 30, depending on when I come in. Occasional voluntary late nights to complete time sensitive motions. Flex time is allowed and encouraged, so some folks come in 7-3, other 10-6, etc. Vacation and sick time as it accrues, at 20 days per year sick time and 20- 28 days of vacation, commensurate with no. of years in service.
          6. Region: Major Northeast City
          7. $80K, plus all benefits inc. life insurance + pension. 2 years out of school. Salary increases as provided for in contract, up to low six figures + longevity bonus.

    2. 1) Insurance defense/general litigation, “Senior” associate (not sure what that means, but I worked in government for several years and came to this firm kind of late in life – been out of law school 20 years, but no desire to be a partner – non-partnership track associate may be more descriptive); 2) no billable hour requirement, and honestly I’m lucky to bill 1500 hours per year; 3) no; 4) n/a; 5) 8:30 to 5:30, rarely work weekends; 6) midwest, smaller firm (11 attorneys); 7) $104,000 last year, varies with bonuses.

    3. Good idea.

      Associate, civil litigation defense, no hourly goal, ~8:30-5:15 Mon.-Fri. South, small firm, $85k.

    4. Sr associate, estates and trusts, 1800 hours base (1440), mark downs count against me, pro bono/firm time does not count. I typically work 9-5 Mon-Thurs. I’m in the Northeast (big city, not NY), 20-50 lawyer firm. I make $100k.

      Note – I work 80% but my benefits are covered at 100%, and I don’t have an employee contribution. Plus, nobody cares if I roll in at 930 or leave at 4 to get my kids, or both (I often work remotely at night).

    5. 1) Patent litigation, second year associate; 2) ~2100; 3) don’t even know what this means; 4)yes; 5)9:30 to 7, very variable though (weekends, till midnight, etc); 6) NYC 100+ lawyers; 7) $170,000.

    6. In-house counsel, 5 years out of law school, no billable hours, typical hours 830-9ish to 6-630ish, work late 1-2 evenings a month (8-9pm), work on a weekend day about twice a year. 90K base plus bonuses (cash and stock).

    7. 1st year associate, general litigation/insurance defense;
      no billable requirement, but I would guess if I were billing less than 1500, things would not be going well; mark downs do not count against me, but it would come up in reviews;
      all my office time counts toward my “requirement” – if I am at a CLE or doing something they cannot bill for but want me to do, then it counts as sufficiently productive.
      I typically work 7:30 – 6:00, no weekends. Earlier or later depending on the urgency of my workload
      Midwest, small firm: 6 attorneys
      48K salary, and while I know the market is bad, I’m a newbie, and the cost of living here is low, I feel like I ought to be making juuuuust a snooch more. Not a lot, though.

        1. Thanks for saying that. I feel like they knew they could lowball me because of the economy, so they did, and now I am stuck. They also changed our health ins deductible from 500 to 3,000. Um. Talk about a a pay cut.

      2. Post (state appellate court) clerkship, one year out of law school, I was making $46K, so I feel your pain.

    8. I just changed from biglaw to in-house so I will give you an idea on both:

      1) used to be senior associate (7 years) in commerical litigation; 2) billable hour expectation was 2000; 3) realization ratio was considered for partnership, but did not count against your billable hours; 4) pro bono could count toward billable goal up to a certain amount, marketing did not, with a separate expectation of 400 hours/year; 5) typical hours were from 8:00 to 5:30, plus at least 1/2 day every weekend; 6) biglaw in southeast; 7) $160k

      Cue the angelic choir music, I moved in-house: 1) I do everything now; 2) no billable hours; 3) I mark down the bills (but only when appropriate, and it is usually the partner’s time that is ridiculous, not the associates’); 4) I am still doing pro bono because I think it is my ethical obligation; 5) 8:30-5:30, no nights or weekends; 6) still in the southeast; and 7) more than I was making at the former firm.

      1. How were you at Biglaw and making a market first-year’s salary as a seventh year?! Were you part time? I am confused.

        But congrats on your new gig! Sounds awesome.

          3. For what it’s worth, a first year associate at one BigLaw firm in Rochester, NY makes $95k. Obviously Rochester is not the size of Houston, SF, LA, etc., but it’s still an office location for a 700+ attorney firm.

          4. This is the anon from the posting above – the firm did have a NYC office and those associates were on a different payscale from the associates in the Southeastern offices. Starting salary for me was $100k, the firm was not big on making the upward market adjustments, but did make a downward “market correction” in 2009.

        2. In the Southeast, 160K is *a lot* of money. I bought my house (when the market was still hot) for about that, and it’s a pretty nice, fairly new house in the suburbs.

          1. Yeah, a big law 1st year associate in my city (large-ish, Southern city) makes right around $100K.

    9. Specialized civil litigation for the fed gov’t in Washington DC; 5.5 years experience; hours vary but lately its been 9-6 but will pick up soon with travel required; about $130k. If Congress does not pass our budget I assume I will get an unpaid vacation soon.

    10. 1) Securities/White Collar defense, associate
      2) 2000 (but more is better/expected), 200 nonbillable work that helps the firm, like marketing or sitting on a board or working for an ABA committee
      3) No, but it would come up in reviews if it was happening a lot
      4) Pro bono, not marketing. Marketing goes the nonbillable bucket.
      5) 8:30-6:30, sometimes 8-10 or worse when I’m deep in discovery or trial prep (last year I billed over 2300 in 11 months)
      6) major western city
      7) bigfirm lockstep – 185k.

    11. 2nd year litigation associate, 1900 billables minimum for bonuses, partner/client mark downs technically do not count against juniors at least, pro-bono counts toward requirement (with alleged non-fixed “maximum” if that is the only way you are at 1900) but marketing does not, 150/month (so far not on target to make hours, the year started slow but picking up now, very cyclical work load, northeast large (1000+ lawyers worldwide) firm, $170k

      1. I guess I’ll bring up the bottom of the pay scale curve, here!

        One year appointment trial level law clerk, 8:30-4:30, some weekend/night work from home (uncompensated), northeast, $50k

          1. Now I’ll make you all feel better:
            1) First year associate – Plaintiff’s firm
            2.) N/A
            3.) N/A
            4.) N/A
            5.) 8 or 9 to 6 or 6:30 generally, with at least 1 or 2 late nights a week – I also bring work home and do several hours of work at home on the weekends
            6.) Mid-Atlantic small firm – 6 attys
            6.) $43,500 (but I do get a decent bonus of 5% of any fee I bring in once my salary is paid for the year.

          2. It doesn’t make me feel better to know you are worse off than I am, but I definitely feel bad right along with you and for you. Why did we have to graduate at the rock bottom of the market?

            (Waaaah Waaaah, I know. It’s Friday. I need to perk up and quit whining.)

          3. My clerkship (international) paid less than 30K, if that makes you feel any better. This was 5 years ago.

        2. I think I might win the bottom of the scale. In August I’m starting a state trial level clerkship. Heard from the past clerk it’s typically 8:30-4:30, no weekends, northeast, $43k.

          1. Yes but clerkships tend to give you a good experience that pays off later in life, and you are working far less hours for your $43K (and probably getting great benefits) as compared to others making in the 40s/50s. I would not be too glum about it :)

    12. 1.) Business and product liability litigation; senior associate
      2.) “Goal” of 1900.
      3.) No.
      4.) No, but it is considered.
      5.) ~8:30 to 6:00, occasional work on weekends. Sometimes more, sometimes less.
      6.) Midwest, BigLaw (450+ lawyers)
      6.) $135,000

    13. 1. civil litigation
      2. 1900 hrs
      3. No, but if we get too many cuts that we could have prevented, we get a chat about efficiency.
      4. No, but it’s taken into consideration if things are slow and we’re not making hours.
      5. 8:30 to 6:00, some weekends, a few evenings for meetings.
      6. Midwest
      6a. ~$60k

    14. 1. Employment litigation, mid-level associate
      2. None
      3. n/a
      4. I track it all so they see I’m working, but no requirement.
      5. 8/9 to 7:30/8:30, occasionally later, once in a blue moon get to leave by 6:30, and work occasional weekends as needed
      6. NYC, small firm (<5 attorneys)
      7. $90K

    15. 1) Civil ligitation — first year associate.
      2) 2000 is eligible for bonuses.
      3) Not against juniors, technically. Would probably come up if happening frequently.
      4) Pro-bono counts up to 100 hours.
      5) 8:00-5:30 in the office, with maybe an extra hour or two at home if necessary. Work from home on weekends as necessary.
      6) Northeast. :-)
      7) $125,000.

    16. 1.) Health care, 3rd year associate
      2.) 2000 for bonus
      3.) No
      4.) 50 hours of pro bono count toward target
      5.) 10 to 7 pm, a few later evenings per month, one or two weekends every few months
      6.) NE, large firm
      7.) 185K

    17. 1) Senior associate, niche practice area plaintiffs’ litigation
      2) none – all contingency fee-based cases
      3) n/a
      4) n/a
      5) Part time. 20-25 hrs per week average/yr. Some weeks 60, some weeks 10, depending on deadlines/workload.
      6) West, small firm
      7) varies based on bonuses, $100-145K

    18. 1) 4th year Public Defender – indigent criminal defense.
      2) None.
      3) Don’t know what that is/no.
      4) No.
      5) 8-6:30 generally for me, but when I’m in trial (~5-8 weeks/year), 6am-11pm.
      6) Northwest city
      7) $75K

    19. 1.) Bankruptcy, fourth year associate.
      2.) None.
      3.) N/A.
      4.) N/A.
      5.) Monday through Friday, 9:45 to 5 or 6.
      6.) Mid-Atlantic, small firm.
      7.) $88k, benefits paid for by firm and 401(k) guaranteed firm contribution.

    20. 1. Patent Preparation and Prosecution
      2. 1700; max 1850 (i.e., no bonus for 1850+ :-) )
      3. Yes, we have maximum budgets on all our projects so even paralegal/reviewer time counts against us.
      4. No but it is considered in reviews.
      5. 9am-6:30pm; 1 night/week; 1 weekend day/month.
      6. Silicon Valley; boutique.
      7. 170k

    21. 1) corporate transactional – jr. associate
      2) no requirement.
      3) yes, but partner mark downs are discussed before they occur.
      4) n/a
      5) billed 1800 last year because deal flow was slow. individual days vary wildly (some days 10am-5pm, others 8am-7pm the next day)
      6) nyc
      7) ~190k without bonus

    22. 1) senior associate (10 years, up for partner this year); 2) billable hour expectation is 1900 (though 1950 for bonus; and really, you had better be billing 2000), though I am part-time with an 80% schedule so it’s 1522/1600; 3) realization ratio is considered for compensation (both base salary (we aren’t lock-step) and bonus) and partnership, but does not count against billable hours; 4) pro bono counts toward billables, marketing does not, there is a specific nonbillable goal but I have no recollection of what it is, things like “entering time” count so it’s just silly; 5) typical hours lately are from 9:30 to 7 :30-8:30, plus between 1-4 hours every couple of weekends; work on vacations; etc (though I am “part-time”, we have been so busy lately have been working above full time schedule; which is okay by me for now, as I am not married and don’t have kids, just am part-time bc I want more flexibility in vacations etc so I figure it will shake out in the end); 6) biglaw in Chicago; 7) $225k is the 100% rate, I’m paid $180 at 80%.

      1. This is fascinating. I always thought that the unspoken rule is that “part time” only applied if you had kids or other family commitments. Sounds like you don’t have those but were still able to swing a reduced hours schedule. Is this common at your firm?

        1. Not common, really. I lateraled a couple of years ago (from full time to part time at another firm, though that wasn’t the reason I was moving firms) and sold it to the new firm during the interview process as: you don’t know how much work you are going to have for me, this is a new position expanding the local group, and this way you won’t be paying me to do work that may not be there; I can be flexible, won’t disappear on my “off” day, will take care of business and just want more flexibility in my schedule so I can take the occasional vacation and not worry about hours all the time.

          People around here make a lot of noise about how I am always in the office on my “off” day (e.g., today) but honestly it works out fine. I took several long weekends last year plus a two week vacation to France and slightly extended T-day and Xmas holidays (where in the past I have always breezed in and out, sometimes leaving Xmas night), and ended up billing 1650. Giving me a nice 110% pace result at the end of the year, and … it is only 1650 billable hours. That is a really nice drop from my prior 2000-2100 pace. I make less money of course (which really does hurt even now – from $275K to $180K, ouch) but overall I’m pleased with the arrangement.

          I can see why part-time is tough with kids though, no one really respects the part-time boundaries (though I’m sure in part that is bc I am always here and/or answering calls/bb emails and they know I’m not home taking care of babies).

    23. 1.) Gov’t attorney, immigration law, 3 years into it
      2.) N/A
      3.) N/A
      4.) Can’t count pro bono work or CLE requirements as part of work hours
      5.) 40-50/week
      6.) Greater DC area
      7.) ~$90K, no bonuses

    24. 1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner?
      Jr./ Mid-level Associate (been working for the firm since ’08, salaried after 2nd [successful] bar attempt in May of ’09)

      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any?
      2150 minimum

      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you?
      No, but after your first year or two, you definitely get called out on any “discrepancies”

      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement?
      Negative

      5.) What are your typical hours?
      9:30 – 6:30 or 7; 4-12 weekend hours per month

      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.)
      Small firm in a big city w/ a high cost of living (think SF, LA, or NY)

      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make?
      78k

    25. 1. Junior/mid associate at an insurance defense firm that does a *very* specialized type of insurance. I normally would not describe my practice as ID but that’s basically what it is. Usual description is much sexier but it’s a very specialized field so I don’t want to state it.

      2. No requirement but last year I billed ~1600 and was told this was no good (I had just started so I didn’t have a lot of work for 3-4 months). I think if I bill 1700+ everything will be OK.

      3. No clue.

      4. As with most small firms (I suspect), my firm does not have a policy on this. I think my firm is so small that if I spend time writing an article or something, everyone will know about it so it “counts” even though it doesn’t numerically count.

      5. 9:30-6:30. Occasionally I stay until 8. Very very rarely weekends (maybe 3-4 weekends a year, from home).

      6. NYC

      7. high 80k’s + bonus. I’m going to push for mid-90k when raise-time comes along (wish me luck!)

    26. 1.) Local gov’t. Equivalent to jr. associate.
      2.) N/A
      3.) N/A
      4.) N/A
      5.) 8:30 – 5:30 (late nights/weekends are very rare)
      6.) Big southern city
      7.) $60K

    27. 1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner? – In house corporate, my classmates made partner this year
      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any? – none
      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you? – none
      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement? – none
      5.) What are your typical hours? 9-9:30 until 5:30-6
      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.) – Midwest
      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make? Approx $265 w/bonus, plus equity

      1. Now this is interesting! I didn’t think that $250K+ was realistic for in-house unless you were essentially GC at an international company. Really I had always thought that under $200K was what I’d be looking at. Is there a good resource showing in-house counsel salary ranges by city/company type?

        1. Try Law Shucks- I think they have a pretty recent poll. Not GC, not DGC, not international. Comp listed includes bonus.

          2. Ah, I see. That is including bonus etc. Looks like base salaries are generally under $200K.

    28. Litigation associate (6th year) in a big chicago firm. 2000 hours, 50 pro bono hours count. typical hours are 8-5:30 m-f (i have two small kids) but i work from home at night, stay late, or on weekends probably on average 1-2 nights per week); 230k + b

    29. 1) 3rd year – securities fraud litigation
      2) none
      3) n/a
      4) n/a
      5) 9:30/10am – 7pm(ish) – of course, there times i am swamped and work late or bring work home (as I will be doing this weekend, unfortunately)
      6) NYC; small firm (~30 attorneys)
      7) $135K (plus bonus)

    30. 1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner? – In house corporate – 10 years out of law school
      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any? – N/A
      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you? – N/A
      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement? – N/A
      5.) What are your typical hours? 9:30 until around 6:30
      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.) – NYC
      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make? Approx $230 (base and bonus) + approx. $30 in stock/pension/etc.

    31. 1) Commercial litigation (mainly defense), senior associate; 2) 2000 billable, plus 100 addditional pro bono/client development/etc; 3) no; 4) yes; 5) 9-7; 6) LA; 7) $250,000 plus bonus.

      1. Indigent defense in capital collateral litigation and appeals in a big city. Hours are 9:30 to 5:00 but about once or twice a year I work 60-80 hours a week plus the job involves a considerable amount of travel. After 15 years, I am making just over 80,ooo plus benefits.

    32. Full disclosure: I just left the position described below to strike in a new practice area (estate planning), where I’m going to be building my practice from the ground up. But for my last job:

      1) General civil litigation, lots of breach of contract cases and some business fraud and real estate litigation. Was an associate there for six years (after two years of clerking) and then went of counsel and requested an 80% caseload and corresponding salary. Was on salary of $175K for 1480 hours for two years and then, since I was short on hours for 2008, was switched to an hourly compensation structure at $130 per hour for 2009 and 2010 (kept same benefits though).
      2) Full time at this firm for associates is 1850, with first bonus at 1950. At 80% I was expected to bill 1480. Once I went hourly there was no expectation or requirement — just whatever the cases I was on demanded any given month.
      3) Only markdowns for inefficiency count against associates/of counsel.
      4) No (though some amount of pro bono does count for associates on partner track — I think it’s 100 hours).
      5) M-F 10:30 am to 6:00 pm or so and no weekends (except for the occasional times we had an extensive brief due on a Monday).
      6) Mid-sized firm (50 attorneys) in San Francisco.
      7) On hourly comp — about $100K in 2009 and $180K in 2010. My two primary cases were just much busier in 2010 than 2009.

    33. I left a mid sized law firm last year for an in house position so I will answer both. I went to work for one of my clients.

      1. Insurance Regulatory at the firm and now government relations for a large financial services company.
      2. 1950 at the firm and 1800 with the company.
      3. Hours were what mattered for your billable hour requirement but realization ratios were also important.
      4. Only billable hours counted at the firm. Now everything from travel to CLE counts at the company.
      5. At the firm I worked 8-6 most days and did client entertainment/marketing events 1-2 a week. I also traveled once a month for client or networking events. I worked most weekends. Now my hours are 9-4 or so but I can do more work from home or off site.
      5. Southeast mid-size firm with regional offices. I work for a large corporation based in Texas but don’t work out of the office. My job isn’t dependent on me being in the home office.
      6. I made $110,000 at the law firm and now make $160,000 and have better benefits.

      I also had a baby two months after I went to the company and it has been the best decision I have ever made. I don’t know how people continue to work in big law and have little ones at home.

    34. 1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner?

      Associate, soon to be partner. Insurance defense; I concentrate on insurance coverage, bad faith, and construction losses.

      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any?

      None, but I generally bill about 2200/year.

      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you?

      Yes, because my bonus is based on the actual income the firm receives as a result of my work.

      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement?

      No.

      5.) What are your typical hours?

      2200/year. Last year was 2300, though, because of a big trial.

      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.)

      Midwest, small firm.

      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make?

      $60k base. Bonus has ranged between $25-50k, depending on my income. This year it was $43k.

    35. I’ll give you my stats from my last job and my current job.

      Last job:
      associate at general civil practice, both transactional and litigation work
      1600 hours (I never made my hours!)
      mark downs did not count against me
      pro bono/firm time did not count
      hours were 9-6
      small firm (8 attorneys) in a city of about 275K in the northwest
      $90K, health insurance, no bonus

      Current job:
      government attorney
      no hourly requirement
      work 8-5 with every other Friday off
      government agency with 100+ attorneys
      $72K, health insurance, pension (eventually)

        1. Well gooollllleee! You go you attorneys. Makes this PhD in a private practice of her own wince and turn green. Hours longer and billable hourly rate probably less…but choice is choice. I often think about what it would have been like with a combined Ph.D./J.D. but that wasn’t available, and now, 20+ years into my own career, not feasible. As I know from experience, a good lawyer is worth everything! You have my esteem and now I can see how some of the $$ of items (like this week’s hobo tote/bag) aren’t impossible items.

          CONGRATULATIONS on finding jobs of happiness, personal confidence, and a way of life that suits you (pardon the sartorial pun).

          1. Eh. For every happy 8th-year associate making 225K and looking forward to being a partner, there are three miserable 8th-year associates who have two more years of loan payments until they can get out, and three more miserable 8th-year lawyers who got laid off and now make $70K at a small firm and still have $100K in debt. So don’t feel too bad about your own situation.

          2. Agree with Cat Lady. I was laid off (after glowing reviews), and now make 20% less while working 20% more, but I’m happy to have a job. I know people who graduated from law school in 2008 and still haven’t been able to land a permanent job.

    36. 1) Real estate/foreclosure prosecution, associate (first post-law school job, been there a whole 2 months)
      2) No billable requirement, but it counts towards out bonuses. We have a kind of unusual pay structure. First, we get bonuses every quarter. We get 33% of everything collected on our work during the quarter over $15,000. So say if the firm collected $25,000 in billables from my work during the quarter, I would get 33% of $10,000 as a bonus.
      3) I guess you would say so – bonuses are based on what’s actually collected, as opposed to what’s billed.
      4) Nope.
      5) Typically 8:30-5:30, but I travel 1-2 days a week. So one, maybe two 12 hour days a week. Occassionally I might do some catch up work on the weekends.
      6) Southern, roughly 30 attorneys.
      7) I think I might win for lowest salary… $42,000. But it’s kind of made up for by the rather healthy bonus scheme. Haven’t collected one yet, but I should be getting my first one in July.

      1. @Cat Lady – take home gross of $75K would be grand! Maybe it’s the solo practice and all overhead burden combined that makes “firm” life look good. To be honest, I did start out in a group practice until fully licensed and once again when tried a cross-country move and was surprisingly unknown/locked out of employment and never found it to fit my personality as an older/only child :) Sure, the grass is always greener and nowadays I shudder at the costs of graduate education and loan burdens. Thanks for the whole perspective and apologies to anyone I’ve offended …

    37. This didn’t seem to post the first time so I’m trying again –
      1. International human rights law, nonprofit organization, fifth-year attorney but this is my third job (have worked here 2.5 years)
      2. no hours requirement but the general expectation is 1800
      3. n/a
      4. pro bono work counts up to 50 hours per year, other work activities all count toward my hours
      5. 9:30-6, M-F with lunch at my desk when I’m in DC; insane hours when I’m on travel (often 14 hour days, 7 days a week for 3 weeks at a time)
      6. Washington DC
      7. 65K

      1. Oh, and I should say I get 24 paid days off per year (accrued monthly), plus 10 federal holidays, compensatory days for weekend or holiday work while on travel, and we tend to get “bonus” holidays like Christmas Eve, New Year’s Eve, half-day off before a long weekend, etc. And I can telecommute one day per week.

    38. 1.) Insurance defense, but pretty involved because it typically involves CGL and other business policies. 10+ years practicing; 9 with this firm. Associate until the past couple of years, now Of Counsel (tiny vent——screwed over!).
      2.) 2200 min. billables. Did much more than that last year due to a long trial.
      3.) Yes, I think it has to be less than 30% writedown/writeoffs to keep your job.
      4.) No
      5.) Normally, 8:30 to 6:30/7:00 and half a day on weekends. Last year, 8:00-10:30 pm weekdays and 9:00-6:00 pm one weekend day, half day the other day. This is a rough estimate.
      6.) South, small firm (approx 15 attys–varies due to turnover).
      6.) $100k salary. $15-20k in bonuses in a good year.

      1. Please don’t hear this question as critical, I spent five years as a general surgery resident working 80hr/wk, 50 weeks year.

        But last year, when you were working 8-1030 5 days a week and a day and a half the weekend — how did you maintain any sort of life outside of work? That seems just unbelievably brutal to me for the long term. Was that very situation specific? Just curious.

        Thinking about it though — at certain times through training I worked 5A to 7 or 8P, which is roughly the same. Totally brutal though.

        1. No offense taken. It was brutal and I’ll never do it again. Insurance defense firms are typically lean on staffing in our town and I had little or no help until about four months out from the trial. By the time it rolled around, I was managing 2-3 junior associates and 3 paralegals. I would not want your schedule–I have a friend who is a neurosurgeon and I know how awful the schedule is. :(

          My situation was a huge mass-tort trial out of town, and prep for it. It was an extraordinary year. I was traveling and doing trial prep all over the US about nine months of the year. Then for the month and a half we were in trial, we were an hour+ from home living in a hotel from Sunday afternoon –Friday afternoon. (Billed 300+ one month; 100% legit) Then it was back home and at the office all day Saturday and then back to the hotel and “satellite office” Sunday afternoon after some family/church time on Sunday morning. I would/could not do that pace for very long. However, I do believe that living there v. living at home with kids, family and related day-to-day expectations made it easier.

          Rest assured, there was NO balance. It was all that case; all the time. The best I could hope for was that a juror would have a doctor’s appointment and the judge would let us go a little early one or two days per week. On those days, I could go for a run or something and have a little time to clear my head before we met back up for a working dinner. My MIL, who is retired and lives an hour and a half away, came to stay during the week to help with the kids (5 and 3 yo) while the trial was ongoing. DH works as much as I do at times and he needed the help.

          Small rant–Given all this, I was particularly upset when I was told at my review in January that I was getting a.) no raise; b.) no partnership, equity, non-equity or anywhere in between and c.) nothing would change until I have my own clients. Ummm, I killed myself on this case because it was a total shakedown, and I liked/believed my clients and the co-counsel I met during the course of the case. I performed this job at great personal sacrifice. I missed part of my child’s Kindergarten year, field trips, etc. I just want to scream: 1. When did I have time to woo my own clients? 2. If I had them, why in the world would I cut you in on the deal at this point–especially since you’ve done this????? Also, I found out they’d lied to me by telling me I was the highest paid associate. The next in line (male–two-years junior and has been at the firm three years less than I) refinanced his mortgage late last year and was dumb enough to save the e-mails back and forth with his broker on the system. I was looking for some research he did on another case and stumbled on the pdf of his pay stub.

          Hence, I had an interview at regional BigLaw this week for a staff atty job paying the same for 4K fewer hours and just a little travel. (I am past my expiration date for lateral associate moves and have no book of business to move at partner level). Fingers crossed. . . And then some Cee Lo Green in the background, a la Ally McBeal– if I’m lucky.

          2. Yeah. You could do that all by yourself. They’re not paying you half of what you’re worth.

    39. Senior litigation criminal defense attorney; U.S. Courts job; no “mark downs” except scowling federal judges (joking!); 40 hour “billables” per week to justify our salaries to Congress; typical hours are 9 am – 5 or 6 pm, unless I’m prepping for or in trial and then I leave at midnight or even later; others in our office are early birds who work 6:30 am to 3:30 pm; encouraged to do pro bono — usually teaching/mentoring at local law school; $165K per year; 26 paid vacation days; 12 days sick leave; about 15 federal holidays (the Court family — judges, clerks, defenders, pretrial and probation take several fun State holidays, too, like “high surf day,” Prince Kuhio Day, King Kamehameha Day, etc); the job also gives a good pension and the Thrift Savings Plan with matching funds; I live in Hawaii.

      Sadly, opposing counsel, the Assistant United States Attorneys, are in the Executive branch and don’t get to enjoy the Judicial branch high surf days. It is fun to be standing on a paddle board on a week day knowing the AUSAs are probably just standing in line at the cafeteria. They probably too stiff -necked to learn to paddle board anyway.

      For those of you who do want to be a stiff-necked AUSA, their salaries are the same as the federal defenders. They get more admiration in the community, but we get more days off. Works for me.

      1. How’d you break into being a federal public defender? I was a PD and being a federal PD always seemed like the best gig in the world, but almost impossible to get.

        Also – I wish I lived in Hawaii.

        1. When a position for the federal defender’s office opened in my area, they received an application from more than 75% of the state PD’s in my office. The feds make twice what state paid defenders make. But, still, I would hate to spend so much time on substantial assistance agreements for drug offenders.

          1. I’m with you – I’d also hate working those cooperation deals all the time. But if you can stomach it, Jade Moon, good on ya.

        2. Just wanted to say ditto! Good for you for building what sounds like a great job and a great lifestyle.

      3. For someone considering making the switch to a fed job myself, I thought that the maximum on the federal pay scale was $155,000, and that was just for the head honcho? Is your salary higher that that because of the cost of living associate… or are you the head honcho? Thanks.

    40. Civil litigation, defense, federal government job, 16 yrs experience. I’m part-time, officially 26 hrs/week, but if I’m busy, on travel, or on trial I’ll work more (and get paid for full time hours). Our pay tables are all online, and most lawyers top out pretty quickly at $155k. Due to my schedule, I usually make around $120k-$125k. Obviously no billing and no partners.

    41. My circumstances are unusual (although I fear that they may be becoming the new normal as this slump continues), but I’ll play:

      Background: 2 years out of law school. Clerked for the first year (36-42K/year, worked 8-4 with no weekends- yes, it was a dream.) But the options that I wanted didn’t open up, so I was left kind of stuck, post-clerkship. I’ve been doing what I’m doing for about 6 months.

      1) Technically, I’m an independant contractor. I have 3 basic branches of work: My main firm (the one I “claim” when I talk to people) is one other attorney; I’m called a partner there. We do whatever comes along, with a focus on small biz and contract work. I’m trying to build up to a specialty in employment and/or healthcare, but it’s hard coming.

      I also contract with another solo, who works mostly for banks (so, bankruptcy mostly). We’ve got a deal for 18 hours a month, but I usually do quite a bit more than that for him.

      My third branch is appointment work that I do on my own with Guardian ad Litems, and I just recently started some work in Juv. court. The pay sucks, but it’s better than nothing. Neither of these branches is giving me a lot of work, so I’m still trying to look for more and better options.

      2) No billable hour requirement, but, of course, I get paid for what I work. It’s a lot harder than I expected to get the hours I want both assigned to me and done- I’m struggling to get in 100 hours a month, which, as a type A sort of person, kills me.

      3) No markdowns.

      4) Nothing else counts for my hours, of course. Although if I bring in clients for my main firm, I reap the direct benefits of this.

      5) I work mainly from home, and set my own hours completely. My husband works in retail, so his hours vary widely; I try to match his, including working weekends and taking off during the week. This is not as nice a system as it sounds, though. I find I waste A LOT of time this way.

      6) Southeast, mid-sized city. Love this town and the idea of leaving makes my brain hurt, but I might have to if things don’t pick up.

      7) No salary here; I make what I bill. For my main firm, I take home 60-80 dollars per hour, and don’t get paid until the client pays (if the client pays). My contracted out firm pays $55-60/hour. Appointment work usually pays $40/hour. Of course, I have no benefits or vacation time. If I could be billing 40 hours a week at all of those rates, I’d be sitting pretty, but I’m not.

      Sigh. I was planning to go to a big law firm and become an expert in medical malpractice defense. I had estimated that doing that, I could pay my student loans off in a year if I lived frugally. Sigh.

      1. Lyssa – Sounds to me like you own your own law office.

        You contract with others, but you’re managing your own practice.

        Don’t be so down on yourself. You’re doing pretty damn great for having to do it all on your own. One of these days, you could get your own clients, not through other attorneys you contract with. And you could absolutely negotiate your hourly rate up. A man would.

        (And if you want health insurance, your state bar association may have a group policy you can join for a reasonable rate. Mine does.)

        Be proud, lady. You’re doing great. :)

        1. This. And it’s another example of how beneficial a state trial court clerkship can be – it gave you broad legal knowledge and the skills to open your own practice. Congratulations on your accomplishments!

          And also, see if your alumni association offers a group health insurance policy. Mine does and it was a lifesaver for me when I worked as a consultant for a year.

        2. Aw, thanks guys! Insurance isn’t a big problem now, since we have it through my husband’s job, but we do hope to get him out of there soon- I’ll certainly check out the bar and alumni groups!)

    42. 1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner? – Corporate + specialized type of regulatory practice, associate in regional BigLaw
      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any? – 1800
      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you? – no, but they count for partnership consideration
      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement? – up to a certain amount, pro bono counts for the “not getting fired” side of the requirement, but not for bonus eligibility. Marketing does not, and there’s a 100/year requirement, which in practice is much less than I do.
      5.) What are your typical hours? 7:00 AM to 6:00 PM, although lately, I come home and work an additional 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM or so. Lately, I’m working 3-4 hours every day of every weekend. It’s been a bad stretch…
      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.) – I work in the largest firm in my northwestern city
      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make? Approx $130,000.

    43. Starting in August:
      1. 1st year, labor & employment
      2. 1900 hours
      3. markdowns don’t count against me
      4. pro bono & firm time don’t count
      5. 8:00 – 7:00 Mon-Fri, some weekends
      6. Southeast, mid-size firm
      7. $80k.

    44. I summered at a firm and accepted their offer to come on board after graduation.

      1.) Generally, what type of law? Insurance Defense, I’ll be a 1st Year Associate.
      2.) Billables: Strict 1850…I’ll be on ‘probation’ if I’m not half-way there after 6 months.
      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you? Technically, no…but I hear I will get “spoken to” if they are writing off lots of my time. Realization is considered in annual reviews and counts toward bonuses.
      4.) Does firm time count towards the requirement? Nope…and a fair amount (probably 5 hrs per week on average) will be expected of me.
      5.) What are your typical hours? 7:30-6 or 6:30.
      6.) Northwest, 30+ Attnys.
      6.) I’ll start at 77k base + automatic bonus if I hit 1850 hrs + profit sharing. 4o1(k)’s on a 6 year vesting schedule and they’ll match my contribution up to 3%.

    45. One thing: this all should be available throught the Vault surveys, if you want to look it up for individual firms.

      1.) Generally, what type of law do you do and are you an associate or a partner? SENIOR ASSOCIATE, LITIGATION

      2.) What is your billable hour requirement, if any? 2000

      3.) Do partner/client mark downs count against you? PROBABLY IN SOME AMORPHOUS WAY, BUT THIS IS A NON-ISSUE AT MY FIRM

      4.) Does firm time (marketing/pro-bono) count towards the requirement? PRO BONO DOES, THE REST COUNTS TOWARDS A NONBILLABLE REQUIREMENT

      5.) What are your typical hours? VERY FLEXIBLE, NO FACE TIME, WORK WHEN YOU WANT TO AS LONG AS YOU ARE IN BETWEEN 10 AND 5.

      6.) What general region do you work (ie: southern, small firm – etc.) CALIFORNIA

      6.) And if you are comfortable, what do you make? NY/TOP MARKET PAY SCALE–160 FIRST YEAR, THEN 170, 185, 210, 230, 250, ETC.

      1. Thanks. I actually posted the question because there is so little information about small and medium sized firms. Even a few of the big firms in my state are not on the Vault survey.

    46. Thanks. I actually posted the question because there is so little information about small and medium sized firms. Even a few of the big firms in my state are not on the Vault survey.

    47. Not sure how comparable this will be given that I’m in Canada..but..
      – junior associate
      – civil litigation, mostly defence
      – 1600 hours
      – write downs count against me
      – pro bono/admin stuff definitely does not count
      – I am gradually getting more efficient, but I’m probably there 830 – 7
      – I make $72k

    48. 1. Plaintiffs litigation, employment and consumer, associate in 2d year.
      2. Expectation is 2000; billed 2300 last year
      3?
      4. Generally no. Some marketing, yes.
      5. 8-630 or 7, 4-8 hrs per weekend.
      6. Large Midwest, not Chicago, 15 attys
      7. 70k, no bonuses.

    49. 1) Corporate Law (Venture, M&A, IPOs, Private & Public Company Rep), Senior Paralegal
      2) ~1650
      3) No, not technically
      4) Probably, but my group is so busy there is an unspoken rule about not taking pro bono cases (although I did a ton during the downturn)
      5) I work ~60 hours a week, relatively flexible unless a deal is signing or closing
      6) Silicon Valley
      7) Base is 85K, OT pushes me to about $120K

    50. 1. Civil litigation, lots of IP lit (trademark, patent)
      2. 1850
      3. No
      4. No.
      5. Totally varies — 8:30 to 6 plus evenings and weekends (just had a baby so the time I’m in the office is more or less dictated by daycare) — I rarely feel like it’s enough time to get stuff done.
      6. Midwest, not biglaw (200+ attorneys in all offices)
      6. (sic) $107, 500 (20K pay cut since my starting salary of $127,500 in 2008)

    51. 1.) Commercial/transactional work; I draft and negotiate contracts
      2.) I work part-time in-house and need to bill24 hours/week
      3.) N/A
      4.) N/A
      5.) ~8:00-5:30, three days/week; I don’t work or ever check email/voicemail the other three days- and I don’t work weekends ever
      6.) Mid-Atlantic
      6.) With bonus, last year $110K

      1. 1) Everything
        2) None
        3) N/A
        4) N/A
        5) 8 am to around 4:30 pm, a few hours at home in the evening here and there
        6) Big City in Europe
        7) about 120k plus daycare, company car, 28 days of paid vacation, unlimited sick days…gotta love European benefits

    52. 1.) I’m a municipal attorney. There are two of us in my office, myself and my boss. I suppose that makes me an associate. I do prosecutions, collections, and real estate work.
      2.) None
      3.) N/A
      4.) N/A
      5.) I generally work 8 – 5. I normally work through lunch, but some days I will take a full hour. I check emails on weekends but usually only work if there’s a big trial coming up.
      6.) Midwest, small city of 35,000
      6.) 60k, thanks to my paycut from the Governor

    53. 1.) Environmental associate (3rd year)
      2.) 1650
      3.) No
      4.) No
      5.) 8-5:30
      6.) West; small firm
      6.) 60,000

    54. 1) Commercial litigation and some trademark/copyright counseling and prosecution – associate
      2) 1900 to be raise eligible
      3)Yes. They consider in determining salary within ranges and is considered for bonus.
      4) Pro-bono up to 50. Marketing no.
      5) 9:00 – 7:00, minimal weekends
      6)regional southeast firm
      7) 105K

  6. Just needed a place to vent for a minute: I went on two dates with this really great guy recently (after not being excited anyone I’ve dated recently) and I was really excited to see where things went.

    Unfortunately, just checked my email to see he’s decided to start dating another girl exclusively. At least he wrote me a very sweet and thoughtful email about it, which almost makes it worse.

    Ugh, dating….just needed to be sad for a minute.

    1. Ugh. I’m sorry. Definitely be sad for a minute. Sounds like he was truly a nice guy, to be able to send you such an upfront and honest email about it. But, it also sounds like he chose the wrong girl. Be glad that, in the words of Patti Stanger, his “picker” is off and you now have the opportunity to find someone better!

    2. Write a gracious “best of luck” email back – they may end up not working out, and a nice guy like that may have a nice friend or two!

      1. That’s exactly what I did. It still stung a bit though, but I managed and he was completely nice and understanding about it.

        Hopefully my dating luck turns the corner soon…:)

    3. I went out on 3 dates with a guy I really liked… then it was Valentine’s Day, and he disappeared.

      Boys are dumb. There are a few that aren’t. We will keep looking until we find them. :)

    4. That sucks, I’m sorry! You definitely deserve some moping and comfort food/trashy tv/whatever makes you happy.
      At least it shows that you picked a good decent guy! And who knows, they may not work out, so it doesn’t hurt to keep in touch sporadically. And maybe he has equally nice, thoughtful friends!

    5. Try to date more than 1 guy at once yourself in the beginning, not only to prevent situations like this, but it does wonders in terms of keeping perspective and choosing the best one of those you date at the same time. Ladies, don’t forget that we should be choosing ourselves.

      1. That’s exactly what I am doing at the moment. He was just the guy I was the most interested in, unfortunately.

      2. Slight threadjack – how on earth do you have time to date 2 guys at once? How do you even meet 2 guys? I work 50 hours a week, and if I were dating, I don’t know when I’d even go to the gym or the grocery store.

        1. Honestly, online dating. I work 50-60 hours a week, so finding time to meet multiple guys I want to date isn’t going to happen. One of my best girlfriends gave me a gift membership for my birthday half as a joke, half as a “please don’t end up as an old spinster” thing. So I’ve been doing it for a month now and having a lot of fun.

          Oddly enough, since I started this, I’ve had more friends or other people approach me with “Oh, you should meet my brother!” or “My husband’s coworker would love to meet you!” kinds of things. I guess I’m just putting the dating vibes out there now?

          1. I’m so glad to hear from someone who’s having a good experience with on-line dating. I very recently ended a relationship with my long-term boyfriend and, though I’m totally not ready to start dating, I know that on-line dating is an avenue that I’ll probably explore once I am ready. I work alot too and, truthfully, I’ve never considered myself good at getting out there and meeting men.

          2. Maybe you can give us some advice on online dating. I feel like my profile is ok, and I get message from guys, but I never know what to say in the on-site emails to them. I just want to say, “Hey, lets meet up,” and see if there’s any chemistry or not.

            I think part of it is that I think my strength is in my face-to-face communications skills, and not so much in random emails with people I don’t know.

            And chemistry in electronic messages isn’t exactly chemistry in face-to-face. Do you know what I mean?

            Any tips on what to say in the message to the guys on the online dating site? I feel like that’s where they lose interest in me. (And me in them.)

          3. Hel-lo,

            Online dating is just plain awkward. You kind of have to accept it and make the best of it. I try to avoid very lengthy email conversations and send just few back & forth to get a feel for the person before talking on the phone or meeting. I, too, am much better face to face than over electronic communication (and I hate the phone), so typically I try to meet people pretty quickly. Fortunately, my experience has been most guys bring up meeting relatively early, which makes it easy.

            I think if you were to go the direct route of “Hey, let’s meet up & see if we click” after a message or two, I think guys would be probably be open to that and relieved they didn’t have to figure out a way to bring it up. It’s worth a shot, right?

            In terms of what I put in my profile, I’m pretty honest about who I am, what I like, and what’s important to me, and I find that the guys who actually bother to read it and contact me are generally decent people. I wish I had more tips/tricks for you, but I just started down this road a month or so ago. Good luck to you!

          4. Awesome. Good, I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels so weird about the messages on the site. I’ll just suck it up and ask to hang out if he seems like a normal person. (And I do agree with your assessment – despite all our fears, I believe they mostly are just regular down-to-earth guys.)

    6. so…. this happened to my best friend. After, for some reason, she started idealizing this guy who did not choose her. For about a year, maybe more, every guy she met she mentally compared to the ‘one that got away’ and they never measured up. Then she couldn’t get interested in them.

      I’m just saying, probably because I had a glass of wine, please don’t let that happen to you, K! He’s not All That. No guy is All That. :)

      Best of luck out there. I know – ugh, dating. You gotta kiss the frogs. No way around it.

  7. PSA – Jcrew is now offering 20% off 150, code SUNNY.

    I just got the super 120s “light heather gray” suit with the 2 button jacket and pants. Love it! I am reordering with the 20% off and will return the full price ones I bought.

    I also got the “Allura” shift dress to go with the suit, but it is too short. I need to bring it to a tailor and see if they can let it out at all. If not, I will need to take it back – too bad, bc it is a gorgeous dress, well made, fully lined, etc. I wish they made their suit dresses in tall!!!

    2. I can’t quite tell what color is it from the website – is it beige-ish? Or actually a light gray?

    3. you probably don’t need to go through the whole process of buy/return. Why don’t you call and see if they will give you a price adjustment?

  8. There was a discussion a while back about running music. I have a half marathon coming up, and am getting pretty bored with my current playlist. Does anyone remember where that discussion was? Or does anyone have any favorites they would like to suggest?

    1. The best song for me recently is by Cute is What We Aim For and the song is called “The Curse of Curves.” It’s got a great beat, and when I want to stop and walk, it reminds me of why I’m running — to cut down on my curse of curves…

    2. I use the Pandora app on my iphone, and started myself a Lady Gaga channel. It keeps me going.

    4. Fischerspooner, “Happy.” Sometimes I just get on the treadmill and let that song repeat.

      Other favorites on my list:
      – Saliva, Click Click Boom
      – Lady GaGa, The Fame
      – Eye of the Tiger, Survivor (yeah, I know, but try it and tell me if it doesn’t help you push a little bit at the end of a workout)
      – Break Your Heart, Taio Cruz feat. Ludacris
      – All Good in the Hood, Jamiroquai (this one’s a little tough to find, but check Amazon)
      – Janelle Monae, Tightrope (I believe that was a Corporette reco)
      – Feel Good Inc. – Gorillaz
      – Kickstart My Heart – Motley Crue
      – Makes Me Wonder – Maroon 5

      The soundtrack Daft Punk did for Tron: Legacy is good too, although it’s not all uptempo, and if you don’t like electronica, it might not be for you.

    7. Probably not for every corporette, but I love hard core rock & 80’s rock when I’m working out: Linkin Park, Disturbed, Iron Maiden, Motley Crue etc. Slayer really kicks my butt!!!

      1. Totally with you on that! I actually love listening to Metallica S&M on a long run. :)

        1. I go back and forth between this and hip hop/electronica, depending on the day! Old Pantera and Metallica work wonders on my motivation.

    8. Warning – I came of age in the 90s. But I love basically the entire Hole “Live Through This” album and Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” as workout music.

      1. Yeah, this! I recently found my copy of Live Through This and have been rocking out to it frequently (to my husband’s dismay).
        I wanna be the girl with the most cake.

    9. I think this is probably very individualized, but I’m always looking for new ideas. You can hear excerpts of these on iTunes. For me, it depends on my mood. But, here’s a narrow sample of what I like:

      Eye of the Tiger–Survivor (old school, no brainer)
      Gives You Hell–All American Rejects
      F$%k You–Cee Lo Green
      Lose Yourself–Eminem
      Thunderstruck–AC/DC (confession, fan of a certain SEC team so I may like it more than the average Jane)
      Telephone–Lady Gaga & Beyonce
      Tik Tok–Ke$ha
      Dynamite–Taio Cruz
      Price Tag–Jessie J
      I Gotta Feeling–Black Eyed Peas
      Think–Aretha Franklin
      Show me what I’m looking for–Carolina Liar
      Love me when I’m gone–3 Doors Down
      Whiskey in the Jaro–Metallica
      Lets get this Party Started–Pink
      No Surprise–Daughtry

      I am always adding to the list!

    10. original anon here. Thanks so much for everyone’s suggestions so far! That definitely will give me some ideas to add to my playlist. All these suggestions are great.

    11. Can’t Stop by Ozomatli
      Around the Bend by The Asteroids Galaxy Tour
      The Underdog by Spoon

      Happy running–hope your race goes well!

    12. Making new playlists is how I motivate myself if my gym-going is feeling a bit blah, I love it! This is my most recent:

      “September” Earth, Wing & Fire
      “Rocket” Goldfrapp
      “Two Hearts” Phil Collins (discovered its tempo is a perfect 15k/hr, haha)
      “Ten Minutes To Downtown” The Get Up Kids
      “You Make My Dreams Come True” Hall & Oates
      “Semi-Charmed Life” Third Eye Blind
      “Womanizer” Britney Spears
      “F**k You” Cee Lo
      “Viva La Vida” Coldplay
      “Takin It to the Streets” Doobie Brothers
      “Pump It Up” Elvis Costello
      “Feel Good Inc” Gorillaz
      “Temptation Eyes” The Grass Roots
      “Town Called Malice” The Jam
      “Rush Hour” Jane Wiedlin
      “I’m Free” Kenny Loggins
      “Love At First Sight” Kylie Minogue
      “Don’t Stop till You Get Enough”MJ
      “PYT” MJ
      “You and Your Hand” Pink
      “So What” Pink
      “I Love To Boogie” T-Rex
      “The Good Life” Kanye West

    13. I Run for Life–although it is about breast cancer, it is very uplifting.

      Or,

      Audible.com for books on tape–great for long training runs.

    14. Shocking based on my screen name, but I like Irish punk music–Flogging Molly and Dropkick Murphy’s have some great songs!

  9. Just to let everyone know…based on advice from someone here I pulled pay ranges from salary.com and asked for a 20% raise, expecting to get 10%. Ended up getting 15%! Yay me!– and thanks for the advice.

    2. Congratulations! I tried this and they countered by offering me a small bump if I forfeited my health insurance (which, after taxes, would actually cost me money in the event I wanted to get my own insurance). Needless to say, I’m looking for a new job.

      1. that seems odd, under obamacare (which i say with no pejorative implications whatsoever) don’t employers have to cover their employees?

        1. Not yet – the fines/requirement doesn’t kick in until 2014. And that’s only if there are more than 50 employees.

          1. Yes, and my firm is small enough to be exempt from almost all federal, state, and local laws.

    3. Good for you. I’m happy about the info I’m seeing above, since it helps me to know to ask for more. I knew I was kind of at the low end of the market, but geeze–they are getting a steal!

  10. Does anyone belong to the Junior League in DC, and if so, what are your thoughts on joining? What sort of women does it attract? I belong to the Junior League in another large east coast city and am moving to DC next year. I’m ambivalent about transferring because I haven’t been thrilled with the women I’ve met in my chapter, but I know that chapters vary by city.

    1. I’m a member of the JLW – this is my 6th active year and I started here as a new member – and would love to chat with you offline about it. As with all large organizations, I think you have to find your niche. Shot me an email if you’d like to chat – leead02 at yahoo dot com

      2. I grew up in DC but have been in Baltimore for the last 8 years.
        I had attempted to come in w/the 2009 class, made it through the lottery and then my plans to move fell through so I didn’t go through with the membership because I was concerned about commiting my weeknights in DC. Fast Forward 2 years, I took a position in DC last fall and move back home in 2 weeks. I’d be interested in trying again (next year I believe, it’s too late this year) but I’ll be 32. Is that way too late for my new member year. My sister was in JLR and began in her 20’s and has basically gone whatever the term for member but inactive is by this time. Any advice you could give would be much appreciated.

        1. @ChristinaMD – would love to chat about JLW offline and any concerns/questions/thoughts. Shoot me an email leead02 at yahoo dot com.

          JLW does not have an age cut off for new members. I’m a new member advisor this year, and one of my new members is in her mid-30s. There are some Leagues who have age cut offs for new members but JLW does not. We have active women who range in age from early 20s to their 40s. Yes, a large percentage are in their 20s but that’s not everyone (yours truly is in her 30s).

          PS Welcome back to DC!

          1. Thank you! You’ll be hearing from me soon – I appreciate the willingness to field emails :)

    2. Thinking about JL in SF. This is the first I’ve heard of their being an age cut-off for new members. I’m in my early 30s…is this too “old” for JL? (I was interested in meeting other professional women outside of the law and I do a lot of community service on my own so that aspect of it intrigued me.)

      1. @JLSF, it depends on the League. Each League has their own age requirements for new members. Check out their website for more information.

        As far as members go, there are three types of members: new members (first years), active members and sustainers (women who have completed a set number of years of active membership and choose to remain a member but are not actively involved). In broad terms, typically, new members are typically in their 20s/30s; actives are in their 20s-40s; sustainers are 30+.

        Best of luck if you decide to join JL. It’s a great organization that gives back to the community through trained volunteers, with time and talent.

      2. Does anyone know anything about the one in Orange County (CA)? I just moved here and don’t really know that many people. Is it a diverse group of people or pretty homogenous?

        1. I’ve heard it’s pretty homogeneous, but then again, so is the majority of Orange County. I’ve considered joining, but their new member orientations always seem to conflict with crunch time at the office, and it never works out.

      3. To me, Junior League is a club for exclusive ladies who volunteer. My perception is that JL is a more grown up version of a sorority. Ladies who lunch. Ladies who have cleaning ladies. Ladies who don’t support themselves, or if they do, they don’t really have to.

        So, one project a JL organization might consider is trying explain to a plebian like me, why I should join. Your organization is good-looking, white, high tone ladies who wear creamy-beige and pearls, whose hobby is volunteering. And your kids all go to private school. That’s my image of JL, and it is the image of anyone else I know whose even heard of you.

        My dislike for the organization grew slowly over time, but there you are.

        Guess it’s time I take my grumpy ass attitude to bed.

          1. I didn’t mean to suggest that Jade Moon didn’t know what Junior League is. I am asking for clarification for those (like me) who do not know what it Junior League is at all.

          2. It’s an organization for women, who have enough disposable income to pay copious dues and donate to causes, to volunteer with organizations in their communities and attend social events. Basically, a sorority for grownups. It used to be very ladies-who-lunch but now more professional women join. You have to be sponsored by a current member to join.

          3. I think the tone/attitude of your local JL does really depend on your area. I recently went to an open house for my area (Tampa) and I think I’m going to join. Yes, a lot of the girls reminded me of the sorority girls from college. But watching/listening, I could tell that many of them were young working professionals (I over-heard many of them discussing work, including law-related stuff). I already know a few members from the Tampa chapter and they definitely do not fit the mold of what a traditional JL woman is. One of the main reasons I’ve decided to give it a try is that alot of the volunteering they do are causes that really speak to me.
            As for “copious” dues – check with your local chapter. For mine, chapter dues are less than the yearly dues for the local bar association.

          4. The joke I always heard about JL growing up was that it is women who spend lots of time and energy helping women whom they would never consider as friends or JL members.

          5. The Junior League is an international organization for women, committed to serving the community through trained volunteers. There are over 150 Junior Leagues throughout the US. If you are interested in joining your local Junior League, definitely attend a recruitment session and see what they do. You can find your local JL by googling it or visiting http://www.ajli.org (AJLI is our parent organization). By visiting a recruitment session (typically in the fall, but check with your local JL), you can form your own opinion, based upon the women that you meet and the work they do.

            I consider myself a smart, successful, full-time employed, non-white, single woman who has found an organization that aligns with my values of volunteering in our local community and making a difference with our community partners (which vary from local museums to schools to shelters). Yes, I wear pearls and cardigans, but I’m also from the south and would wear those regardless of being in the Junior League.

            Unfortunately I can’t change everyone’s opinion of the Junior League, but I can tell you about the great work we do in our community and what I have received from a great organization.

            And to those who have asked, our dues are less than those of belonging to a professional association.

          6. Thanks for your opinions, everyone. I do a good amount of community service in my community, I wear cardigans (no pearls), and I suppose consider myself a “professional”.

    3. I belonged to the Junior League in London. It was a mix of spouses who didn’t have work permits, and thus, could not work, professional women, and professional moms. I liked some of the people. Some people took it WAAAAAY too seriously–I remember one woman came to our new member orientation and gave us a talk about embarking on our Junior League “careers.” And for those of us that worked, and had real careers, it was laughable. I did like the charity aspect. However, I found the idea that you could make a donation to get out of doing charity to really miss the point. Yes, literally, you could “pay your way out” of volunteering. Really shallow.

      I made some good friends…it was worth it. Basically, find the people in the corner who can snicker at the right times with you, and you’ll be OK. On the whole, the JL does good works. There are just some chapters, and some people, who are not my type (probably true of any large organization.

      Fast forward a few years. I moved to Denver. The chapter there had very few professional women. It ended up not being for me!

  11. New Yorkers: does anyone have suggestions for a local college where I could take a couple of night courses? Here’s the deal: I’m interested in copyright/trademark law, but several lawyers that do this have told me that firms really only hire entry-level people who are eligible to sit for the patent bar because very few people do exclusively copyright/trademark. Since I was briefly pre-med in college, I took a number of chem/bio/physics courses. I think I’m about 4 classes short of being eligible to sit for the patent bar (it’s not entirely clear because my undergrad worked on just a single credit per course rather than a credit hour system), so I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth my time to get the classes and where I could do this. I poked around on a few websites, but it seems like a lot of community colleges don’t have sufficient science classes that aren’t duplicates of what I’ve already taken (basically level stuff).

    1. I’m not sure how many night classes they have, but Hunter has a pretty strong science program, you might try them? You could also look at Lehman, if the Women in Science posters in the subway are any indicator of competence.

    2. Hunter has a post-bacc pre-med program that would probably have some higher-level courses. The CUNY system is cheap but it is like 7 layers of red tape to get into a course.

    3. What about NYU, Baruch or Fordham? Obviously NYU is the most prestigious (and expensive), but if you’re not looking for the name recognition of the school, I’d think Fordham would be a good choice. Baruch would be nice if you already work downtown.

    4. You’re also eligible to sit for the patent bar if you’ve passed the FE exam (Fundamentals of Engineering?). My engineer husband says it’s really easy and that I could easily pass even though I haven’t taken any college level science classes. I’m not entirely sure I believe him, though. Anyway, it’s another option that might be cheaper/less time consuming than taking community college science classes.

      However, my impression of the market right now is that firms aren’t hiring people for IP unless they are very specialized in their field. Ie, an engineering degree or a master’s or Phd in bio. So even if you are eligible for the patent bar, you might not have much luck. I know lots of people with bio degrees who can’t get IP jobs right now. I was told that the best way to break in would be to get lots of trial experience as an prosecutor or public defender and try to break into IP litigation.

      1. Seconded. In the patent world, it’s becoming less common to let someone get their foot in the door by letting them “hang out” in the patent department for a few years.

        Patent law is training-intensive and the attorneys who do the training are not afraid to quit for in-house positions if the training burden is too high.

      2. hm, interesting. That’s frustrating. There are days where I think I should have just been an engineer in college…

        1. Hunter!!!!! I know several very smart people who did this or similar there. Very convenient location (East 68th St & Lex, next to many trains — 6 right next door, F a few blocks down and 4/5/6/N/R/Q at 59th st). Great people. Great profs (many teach there and places like Columbia, etc — you get them at a discount ;) ). Good reputation but not expensive. NYU will cost you a lot more and not be much different in terms of program/experience. Same w/Fordham, all private colleges, etc.

          Look at other CUNY schools, too. Brooklyn College might have some options. Not sure about Baruch. Prob City College, but that might be a bit out of the way. But seriously, Hunter is great. I have taken classes there, and think it’s great bang for the buck!

      3. Agreed. Prosecutors have to have an engineering degree or PhD. Litigators can break in with less than that, but traditionally also need engineering degrees, plus more – communication skills, etc. There are a lot of jobs in IP, so it attracts people who think it’s easier to get a job there, but the real reason there are so many jobs in IP is that there is a shortage of the background needed for that job.

        1. Not sure if you’ll still be reading this, but if you want to do copyright/trademark, I wouldn’t dedicate too much time to IP. I’m only a first year, and I’m working those cases with no background whatsoever. I joined a general litigation group, which handles some trademark work, at a firm with a large IP group, and spread the word to some of those partners that I was interested in parts of what they do. My practice is never going to be 100% copyright/trademark, but so far I’m getting to do some of it.

  12. I’m planning a vacation with my mom at the end of April to CA, driving from SF to LA down the Pacific Coast Highway. We will have about a week, and I’m thinking we’ll spend four days driving and two in LA, which we have not visited. We have been to SF before, so will probably only spend one night there. Does anyone have any suggestions on activities, restaurants, etc. on the road or in LA for first-timers?

    Also, are the LA freeways really as scary as I am led to believe? I can handle Miami, DC and NY (though I don’t drive in Manhattan itself) — is LA significantly worse?

    1. I lived in LA last summer and loved it. It can be rather stressful to drive around, given the sheer volume of cars and aggressiveness of the drivers, but it isn’t much worse than anything I have experienced in the DC area. I would plan out your days there to avoid rush hour(s) (7:30-10am and 3:30-7:30pm) and to keep the amount of cross town traffic you have to do to a minimum, which can take forever no matter what time of day it is.

      My friend is visiting LA soon, and here is an email I recently sent her about things to do there:

      Things to do:
      Getty Museum (not the Getty Villa, although I’m sure that’s cool, too) – I’m not a big museum person, but this is my favorite museum in the whole world. It is actually a huge compound in the hills with beautiful views and gardens, as well as fantastic art collections.
      Rent a bike (preferably a beach cruiser :) to ride along the bike path that extends along the Pacific Ocean from Santa Monica to past Manhattan Beach. You ride along the Pacific Ocean and the beach the whole time, so it is very scenic and there is lots of good people watching. You can rent a bike from a bike shop in Santa Monica.
      Hiking in the Santa Monica mountains. The west side of LA has a number of good parks to go hiking in, but I liked Temescal Canyon Gateway Park because it is easy to get to, it isn’t particularly intense hiking, the views of the coast and the surrounding area are stunning, and parking is easy. I have read that they have a stop sign camera that fines people $175 if they don’t stop completely at the stop sign in the park and that they are vigilant about making sure you pay the parking fee (it is a self pay system), so beware or park on Sunset Blvd. outside the park.

      Where to eat:
      Pizzeria Mozza in West Hollywood – It is owned by Mario Batali, and I had one of the best meals of my life there. The Italian food is outstanding, and it is a relatively casual atmosphere with moderate prices. It is super difficult to get reservations at (but you can sometimes eat at the bar without a reservation), but it is so worth it.
      Giorgio Baldi’s in Santa Monica – Absolutely outstanding Italian food. It is a little Italian restaurant that is quite pricey, but very memorable. I often still think about the white corn ravioli with truffle sauce (the best thing on the menu!). It can be a good place for celebrity sightings, but I personally haven’t seen any celebs there.
      Father’s Office in both Santa Monica and Culver City – Many people swear that they have the best burger in all of LA. It is pretty inexpensive and always lively.
      Lemonade in Venice – it is on a street called Abbott Kinney, which is a fun, funky, hipsterish street that runs through the heart of Venice (and is just south of Santa Monica). It is definitely worth a stroll down Abbott Kinney to people watch. Lemonade is an inexpensive, quick restaurant that is kind of like an upscale salad bar but with more unique and flavorful dishes. They also have an absolutely delicious red velvet cake and other yummy-looking baked goods.

      Enjoy your trip! SF is awesome, too!

      2. S – awesome suggestions! I was going to respond but you covered my favorite things and then some. I moved out of L.A. but I miss the Getty Museum and hiking up Temescal Canyon. I also miss the beautiful Getty Villa (free, but you need to reserve a spot and pay for parking). Thanks for taking me back to my fave places.

    2. Hearst Castle is pretty amazing. There are about 5 different tours you can take because it is so big it is impossible to see everything at once. We did the basic one for people who have never been before, and it was very good.

      There is a beautiful beach in Big Sur called Pfeffer Beach that has purple sand. Difficult to find, so you will probably need to stop and ask someone for directions.

      The Monterey Aquarium is also great.

      There are a number of good wineries in Carmel Valley, and it is not nearly as busy or expensive as Napa.

      Have fun!

    3. Haven’t done that whole drive, but we did once drive from SF down the PCH through Monterey (see the aquarium) and Carmel (shopping and lunch) to Big Sur, which is GORGEOUS. We stayed at the Post Ranch Inn, which is ridiculously pricey but once you are there you do not care and would pay anything to extend your stay. It is fantastic and has one of the best restaurants in the country on-premises (food is amazing and the wine list is a book). They do in-room spa services/massages; there’s daily sunrise yoga in the “yurt”; they had an astronomer on the restaurant patio the night we were there, showing us the moon and saturn between courses; the individual little houses are practically part of the landscape, perched up on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Highly recommend it if you are looking for a fun pampering trip for the two of you.

      1. I should add that it’s a fun pampering trip that also involves activities like the yoga and hiking around the ranch property (they will pack you a picnic) and taking walking tours of their redwood forest and swimming etc. We didn’t leave the property the weekend we were there. Anyway, again, highly recommended.

    4. You’ll be coming right through central coast wine country, so if you like wine, plan to stay the night either in the Paso Robles area or northern Santa Barbara county (not the city of Santa Barbara, but about 45 miles north of there – Santa Ynez, Santa Maria area). Both have great wines, and the tastings are fun, even more so on weekdays, because you can spend time talking with the staff, often the winemakers themselves at the smaller places. If you choose Paso Robles, you could stay in Cambria, which is near the beach. We like Fog Catcher Inn (not fancy, more of a quite-nice motel, but comfortable and reasonably priced — all rooms have fireplaces) on Moonstone beach — literally right on the beach. Cambria is also about 5 miles south of Hearst Castle, which has great tours if you like that sort of thing (I do) — so you could plan to spend 1 day in that area, 1/2 touring Hearst and 1/2 wine tasting. Robin’s in Cambria is a GREAT place for dinner, excellent food, cozy, eclectic. Paso is 5-ish hours north of LA, depending on traffic and where you’re going in LA, so the next day you can easily make it to LA.

      For LA, definitely the Getty Museum. I like the Getty Villa even better than the main Getty — Villa is on Pacific Coast Highway, about half way between Malibu and Santa Monica. It has the Getty’s ancient art (Greek, etc.) and ocean views and a great cafe.

      Santa Monica 3rd street promenade and SM pier — nice walking around area. Also an upscale (though small-ish) mall, Nordstrom’s etc. Could do before or after the Getty Villa. Both Getty’s are free, but you need reservations in advance for a specific entry time.

      If you want to do a studio tour, I’d recommend Warner Bros. — I’ve done a few of them with visiting family, and thought it was the best of the bunch. But I’m not really into that stuff. Hollywood – eh, whatever. Dump in a bad neighborhood and all that, but I understand people like to do it (at least they’ve mostly cleaned up the drugs and hookers — it’s a lot better than it used to be).

      Beverly Hills — shopping, really big houses. Again, not really my cup of tea, but the Grill is a decent bet for celebrity sightings at lunch (late-ish, no earlier than 1). Definitely need reservations.

      Pasadena — great old town to stroll around, and if you like botanical gardens, you can’t beat the Huntington Gardens (in Pasadena) — just lovely, and they have a fabulous high tea – you need to make reservations for the high tea, though. And driving by the Rose Bowl (also Pasadena) was a highlight of one of my parents’ visits (they’re Big Ten folks so thought it was cool to see “in person.”).

      There’s really no reason to go to downtown LA, with one major exception: the Disney auditorium, if you like architecture. Just wow. And if you can catch a concert there, again, wow. I think they also have tours if you don’t make it to a show — almost as gorgeous inside as out.

      There’s no way to say this nicely — the freeways suck, especially the 405 (which is the freeway that runs north to south along the west side — it’s how you get to Beverly Hills, UCLA, etc.). Worst traffic in the country several years running, and there’s really no such thing as rush hour — there used to be, but now it’s pretty much constant. In terms of navigating it, it’s no worse than any other freeway system in a big city — lots of clueless or jerk-ish drivers who cut you off, don’t signal, etc., but if you’re used to big city driving, it shouldn’t faze you too much (other than the god-awful volume). If you have a smart phone, check traffic before you get on any freeway, no matter what time of day, and also so you can find an alternate route if you hit a “sig alert” (the local media’s term for a major snarl, usually because of an accident, car on fire, crane fell on the freeway, televised car chase, whatever).

      OK, that’s all I can think of for now. Good luck!

      1. Oh! Wait! One more thing – can’t believe I forgot this. One of the absolute best things to do is the whale watching trip that runs out of Santa Barbara (the city, not the northern wine country). The absolute best whale watching cruise is the Condor Express. Google to find it. Those guys are amazing — they almost always find whales, and it is so cool to see them up close. The whales are often curious and hang around the boat. Once, one came out of the water, stared right at my husband for several seconds and then blew water right on him. There are also huge schools (i.e., sometimes 50-100 of them) of dolphins, and they too are very curious and will swim around the boat. Santa Barbara is uniquely well positioned for whale watching because of the geography of the coast — there’s lots of food for them there, so they hang out off the coast in that area — much more so than anywhere else along the coast. You should make reservations, or at least call to find out how full they are for particular trips you’re interested in.

        1. Oh wait, one more thing. There’s a section of the 1 freeway, which is the coast freeway from SF to LA, that is closed for several weeks (maybe a couple of months) in the Big Sur area because part of it collapsed a couple of weeks ago when we had massive rains. Be SURE to check the freeway info online.

    5. Monterrey: The aquarium is awesome. Also, we ate at a restaurant there called Passionfish (technically in Pacific Grove, one town over). If you like fish, this place is DIVINE.

      Between: Pay the extra to drive through the Pebble Beach area, its awesome.

      Carmel: Fun downtown shopping corridor. Just at the top of the main shopping area is an outdoor shopping mall with a cheese store that is literally awesome. They’ll let you try a whole bunch of cheeses, they’ll sell you wine, bread, and jam or whatever, and everything was delicious (not particularly CHEAP, but very delicious). Plus, they have tables set up outside where you can eat.

      LA: Others above have suggested all my major suggestions. But for a restaurant suggestion, if you like meat, I loved Umami Burger. Its amazing. Seriously.

      Have fun!!!

    6. Disagree that Disney Hall is the only thing in downtown – its become one of the most vibrant parts of the city. If you are around for the monthly Art Walk, its amazing, and downtown has some of the best bars and restaurants in the city.

    7. Wow, everyone. Thanks so much for the detailed responses! Lots of ideas to check out there. I’m very excited for the trip, and will enjoy seeing some of the Golden State in person.

      1. I agree with some of the posters above – as you’re winding your way down the PCH (and I do mean winding) you have to check out the central coast around Cambria/Hearst Castle. It’s one of the least developed areas of the California Coastline and is just gorgeous. A good halfway place to stop between SF and LA. Just beautiful. Nice wineries in the area, too, and Cambria, like most little towns dependent on tourism, has a nice little walkable downtown with restaurants and quaint shops.

        Now, I’m a native Californian but my husband isn’t. I spent every ‘beach’ vacation my whole life at Pismo Beach, and I never really thought of it as super special. But my husband had never been there until he met me, and he was completely blown away by it. It’s a true old-school California beach town, and the beach has the softest sandiest sand of any beach I’ve been to. Have a bowl of clam chowder at Splash for me!

        Have fun!!!!

        1. There’s also a seal rookery about 3-4 miles north of Hearst castle. Very cool to watch them. Pay attention from note from other anon above — you might not be able to do this trip due to the wash out of Pacific Coast Hwy near Big Sur — it may be closed for several weeks.

          2. If you’re talking about the elephant seals in the Hearst castle vicinity, YES! My bf and I spotted some and spent so long looking at them that we just skipped Hearst! We thought we were discovering something new. :-) And then we found a beachy area with TONS of them that was well marked with info sheets, etc. So, not new, but still amazing.

          3. If you’re talking about the elephant seals in the Hearst castle vicinity, YES! My bf and I spotted some and spent so long looking at them that we just skipped Hearst! We thought we were discovering something new. :-) And then we found a beachy area with TONS of them that was well marked with info sheets, etc. So, not new, but still amazing.

          4. If you’re talking about the elephant seals in the Hearst castle vicinity, YES! My bf and I spotted some and spent so long looking at them that we just skipped Hearst! We thought we were discovering something new. :-) And then we found a beachy area with TONS of them that was well marked with info sheets, etc. So, not new, but still amazing.

    8. My husband and I did the reverse trip last year. This was some of our favorite stuff:
      SF – Tonga tiki bar in the basement of the Fairmont hotel. Totally mom-appropriate. Buy her a big drink in a pineapple! (They’re really strong, so watch out!)
      Monterey/Carmel – 17 mile drive. I hear you can eat in one of the golf clubs, but we were dressed for hiking so skipped that.
      Hearst Castle – Got the greatest burger at the little general store made from beef cattle on the Hearst ranch. The basic tour is great – lots of stairs.
      Santa Barbara – just beautiful. Downtown had lots of cute shops, restaurants, wine bars. Brophy Bros. seafood was the place to be.
      LA – Definitely check out Santa Monica. Gorgeous! Rent bikes and you can ride all the way to Venice. It’s all flat. Perry’s Bikes does bike tours which we sadly missed. Cha Cha chicken was delish and super casual.

      Driving south on the PCH was scary for me on the 1 or 2 occasions we did it – we were heading north. I don’t like heights, and going south you are on the “outside.” Have a great time!

    9. Stop in Big Sur and have lunch at Nepenthe. It’s easy to miss, but a wonderful place to sit out on its massive desk and admire the Pacific ocean. This restaurant is one of my all time favorite places. Enjoy your trip!

    10. Thanks again, everyone — more great ideas. Love the pineapple drink suggestion, and I will definitely research the road closure.

    11. If you’re renting a car, get something with a sporty ride/stiffer suspension for the PCH. I was a passenger in a grandfatherly Lincoln Towncar between Monterey and Paso Robles, and I’m not prone to motion/sea sickness, but oy vey. I was in a world of hurt from that drive (in that car).

  13. I posted earlier about waiting for the results of a job interview, and I just found out that I GOT THE JOB! I am so excited and just wanted to share my good news.

    My new position comes up with a serious raise (more than 20%), a defined career path with opportunities for advancement, and more exposure to my industry. I love my current job and am sad to leave, but at the same time, this feels like it’s the right move for me.

      1. Congratulations! I’ve been following your search since I’m looking at the same time. So jealous! I was hoping to hear today too :( Hopefully next week will be my week!

  14. Question here: how can you stay positive when colleagues around you are miserable? We’re all overworked and underpaid right now, but I’m fairly mellow by nature, and have just been plodding along, looking forward to better times (and a pay rise in October) and enjoying my time off. However, some of the people I work with are being driven to distraction by the whole situation, and while I like my colleagues a lot and am close friends with some of them, their unhappiness is starting even to make fundamentally-cheery me grumpy.

    I’m pushing for us to document some of the problems and actually *do* something about them instead of just moaning with no end in sight, but is there anything else I can do to either boost morale (we’re all more-or-less equal in rank) or ignore the gloom? I’m reluctant to limit contact etc, since as I said above, we’re friends as well as colleauges.

    1. I’m a lot like you – I tend to plod along and feel upbeat even when I’m surrounded by mopers. I just try to be proactive. A lot of times my less-upbeat coworkers see all the problems but they can’t see solutions. Having a sit-down and talking about ways you can empower yourselves to solve your own problems really helps. Can you call a meeting, without superiors present, to discuss things and try to identify concrete steps you can take to improve your situation? Manage the meeting carefully to make sure it doesn’t turn into a bitch session.

    2. I don’t have a lot to offer, but I would advise you to try to not let it keep you down, and keep things in perspective. At my last job prior to Law School, I didn’t really have a problem, but most of my collegues were constantly going on about how overworked they were (I almost never felt over worked, and by over worked, we’er talking about having to stay past 4:45), how management didn’t care (I always found individual managers friendly and respectful, but I think my co-workers wanted to be coddled), etc.

      Anyway, overall, it was a good job, but, even though I knew that I didn’t agree with a lot of my co-workers rants, I think that I sort of internalized them anyway. I really, really wish that I had done some more inquiring about opportunities within the company before I left to go to law school. It’s true that I was bored in my job and wanted to do something bigger, but its a big company and I probably could have found something if I”d just talked to managers about it, but I sort of got it in my head that that wasn’t an option. The bottom fell out of the economy while I was in school, and the job search has not been my friend. I expect that I’d be in a much happier and more profitable place now if I had been better at ignoring my friends.

  15. Anyone have tips for dealing with a boss who has a chronic overreacting problem? Trying to keep her in the loop and updated on everything hasn’t worked. She will start feeling anxious about a deadline and then make everyone’s lives miserable – calling people at home at 10 p.m., yelling, etc. until she feels like she’s “more on top” of the situation. She also does it when she feels like she needs to impress someone and everyone is not “performing up to standards.” I love my job, but the constant swing between peace and high drama is not for me and I am contemplating changing jobs just because of this, which I know is neither realistic nor the best way to handle a tough situation.

    1. Ugh, I can relate. No suggestions, unfortunately, although I’m hopeful someone else has some to share.

    2. i had a boss like this at old firm. I am calm and kept very very calm in the face of her flapping. this made her feel more anxious i think because shecould see that it made her look a bit unhinged.

      no real suggestions……maybe drink your coffee out of a keep calm & carry on mug?

    3. This is tough. I think the best way to handle abusive behavior is to get the heck away from it. So it’s not unreasonable at all to look for another job.

      But she also may not know it bothers you. (Maybe this behavior has been rewarded for her?) If you feel comfortable, I’d talk to her (at a calm time) and let her know that you just can’t put up with this much longer, and are on your way out. I’d say specific things, like that she’s not allowed to call you after 8:30pm, and then if she does, tell her that you won’t answer. She may feel bad and want you to stay… in which case, she may put in an effort to change. Or she may say, ok, see you later. Since that’s what you were planning any way, it won’t be that big of a let-down.

      I think the main thing is to not take it personally, and it sounds like you’re doing that. That would be really hard for me.

      1. I had a boss like that and I lost 15 pounds in just a few month. I quit with no job to go to and I was willing to wait on tables rather than be abused. Calling you at home at 10 pm is unacceptable unless it happened one time (allowing for extreme case like a brief due to the USSC for example). Everyone, including bosses, should be allowed an occassional panic attack but not on a regular basis.

    4. My boss isn’t an overreactor, but I often find myself having to “manage up.” He has his quirks and his weaknesses, and by anticipating them and volunteering to do tasks for him where I know he’s not going to want to/be able to/remember to do them himself, I can prevent a lot of fires from occurring rather than having to put them out (for instance – he often forgets to fill out the necessary paperwork for a project. So in advance of when the paperwork will be do, I ask him if he wanted me to do it and 99% of the time he says yes. If I don’t bring it up, the day before the paperwork is due he calls me in a panic saying he just remembered that paperwork needs to be done and can I help him because he can’t get it done in a day on his own.). He also tends to be a big worrier, and I find that repeatedly reassuring him that I have everything under control but I will let him know immediately if any problem arises. Not sure if any of these tips would help in your situation, but if you look for career coaching advice on managing up, I think you’ll find some good tips.

  16. Threadjack: Just got a call from my #1 desired firm to interview for job after my clerkship. Now of course the obession begins.

    Part of my obsessing is what to wear? Can I wear a light brown skirt suit (think Banana Republic Sleek Suit Fossil) — the weather is finally turning springlike and it would be nice to not be in my black skirt suit. The rest of my suit options are pants and I know skirts a slightly better option for interviews.

    2. I think light brown is fine, as long as the cut is still classic, and everything else appropriately conservative (i.e., no flashy shirt, appropriately matched heels, etc). I’ve never worn a brown suit at an interview, but think it is as professional as navy blue or charcoal, both of which I often see interviewees wear.

    4. This isn’t the time to stretch. This is the time to impress them. If you really want this job, wear the black suit.

    5. Black. The pants vs. skirt thing does not really matter at firms any more, unless it is a very conservative place.

  17. This refers to the April Fools’ joke that had a threadjack about the buy a $10 item and get 5 free, someone suggested the interlock pencil skirt. Someone else mentioned they used the code on the US site. What items did you buy? I tried to use the code on American Apparel to buy the skirt, and it said it wasn’t valid. Anyone able to get the skirt with the code? How’d you do it!?

  18. It didn’t work for me either. I added 5 items and met the $60 minimum but it only deducted $20 and stated that I had a $30 credit for next time.

  19. The Bar is looming in my future and I’m trying to figure out how to deal with studying for it without losing my sanity. I will be taking Bar Bri. I’d like to be able to exercise, eat, sleep, spend time with my boyfriend, and see family and friends during the months leading up to the Bar exam. Any advice for achieving life/Bar balance?

    Additionally, anybody have any study tips? Is 8 hours per day enough time to put in? What about weekends? Will it be possible to take one or two days off once a week, or is that setting myself up for failure?

    Thanks Ladies!

    1. If you take Bar Bri and do the assigned coursework, you should be fine. I treated studying for the bar like a full time job – 5 days a week were spent studying and I took most weekends off. Went to Bar Bri class and studied for about 8 hours per day during the week. Maintained a balanced life (cooked dinner with my BF, spent time with friends, enjoyed going out to dinners and watching movies) without guilt, and it helped me maintain my composure and not burn out too early. Of course, all of the balance went out the window in the last few weeks before the exam, but I was able to push through the stress at the end because I paced myself and had balance for most of the time I was studying. My BF (now husband) and I actually look back fondly at the summer we spent living together post grad/law school while I studied for the bar exam.

      My best advice would be to no burn yourself out too early. If you don’t take care of yourself, eat, sleep, or exercise it will catch up with you and the extra time spent studying will not do you any good.

      Good luck!

      1. This is exactly what I did. I treated the bar review classes like a job– 8:30 to six-ish Monday through Friday until the last few weeks. As long as you are taking it seriously from the beginning (and going back and re-studying the early subjects so you don’t forget) you won’t have to go too crazy near the end. You don’t need to ace the bar exam- you just need to get one point above the minimum. You know know how well you do on standardized tests (how well did you do on the LSAT? The SATs?) and you can use that to gauge how much you should be studying. Start with the M-F 9 to 6 as your baseline, and then go up from there depending on how well you normally do on standardized tests. If you struggled with the LSAT and retook it, then study more. If you got a 175 after only taking a few practice tests, you’re probably fine.

        The summer I took the bar, I took my weekends off, went to my brother’s baseball games, hung out with my boyfriend (also now my husband!), went to the farmer’s market, and even took a 4th of July trip (no studying!) to see family. I had a great summer.

    2. I agree with A. I took the Texas bar a few years ago (one of the those joyful 3 day exams) and only took BarBri courses and passed. Basically, I went to Barbri each morning and paid attention. I sometimes did the required reading the night before each class (say, 40% of the time). Once July 4th rolled around, I spent about 10 hours each day studying and taking the practice essays/MBE questions. I followed Barbri’s schedule for the last two weeks almost exactly. Passed with no problems and while I was anxious and nervous about passing, the volume and amount of studying I did wasn’t horrible.

      1. Thanks for the comments! I definitely feel relieved about the possibility of having a life!

    3. I actually really enjoyed my summer of bar studying. Don’t start doing too much too early or you’ll just burn yourself out. I basically didn’t do anything but go to Barbri class until July 4th. I went to class in the morning and then went to the gym or hung out by the pool in the afternoon. Once July 4th rolled around, I started studying more, but I confess I don’t think I studied as much as a lot of people (I think I probably treated it as a 9-5 job, plus one weekend day after July 4th). Basically, know yourself–I happen to be very good at memorizing things, and honestly, assuming you’re a competent writer who can analyze some, and I’m assuming you are if you’ve made it through law school, the bar is largely a test of memorization. It also helped me to remember this was a minimum competency exam. Can you fail it? Yes, but if you study and don’t psych yourself out (which I think is why a lot of people who fail do), you should be fine.

      Oh, and don’t believe whatever grade barbri gives you on the practice essays. I’m pretty sure they’re intentionally low.

      1. I’ll admit I failed the bar once, and I had the opposite experience with my practice essays. I got very high scores, was told I didn’t really need to do anything to improve, and on the real thing I had abysmal scores. Another friend had the same experience in her course and did similarly poorly on the essays. The reality is that not all essay graders are equal and some will lead you astray. I had a friend who was pretty much getting “Good luck, sucker” on all his practice essays, stopped turning them in, and passed the bar with no problem.

        In my state BarBri has been pretty infamous as of late for giving poor instruction. I strongly recommend ignoring any predictions they might give you because they’re almost always wrong where I am. In fact, the bar in my state is known to dislike BarBri and does whatever it can to make that known by switching up essay/multiple choice topics in an unpredictable manner.

          1. FL. I’d recommend PMBR as it seems to have much better preparation for the FL section. If you do go to BarBri, study everything and don’t pay any mind to their predictions. Just because a topic has never shown up before on the essays does not mean it won’t show up next time! FL is scored using standard deviations, so you can fail the exam even if you do above average on every section and bomb one essay.

        2. “In fact, the bar in my state is known to dislike BarBri and does whatever it can to make that known by switching up essay/multiple choice topics in an unpredictable manner.”

          Same in my state (IL). I also found PMBR was way more useful than BarBri for the multistate part. I took (and passed) the exam in 2006, so things may have changed.

    4. My best advice is just to do what BarBri tells you to do. I went to class, came home in the afternoon and chilled for a little bit, then got down to my reading and practice questions.
      Maybe things have changed in recent years, but the schedule BarBri created when I was studying for the Bar (last summer) did involve work on the weekends. But as there weren’t gnereally classes on the weekends, the workload wasn’t too bad on the weekends.
      I did manage to have a bit of a life, mostly towards the beginning of the summer. I spoke with/had occassional dates with my then-boyfriend, still made time to visit with my family, got pedicures with my good girlfriend who was also studying for the bar, and blew off class at least once or twice to do something fun (but made up the work later). Once it gets past July 4th, things will get a bit more intense and you probably won’t have as much time for family/friends/SO’s. But still making some time for those things, in my opinion, is hugely important.

    5. The summer after law school was one of the most fun I have had. I got in great shape (running 60-70 miles a week), hung out in NYC, and until the 4th of July I only went to classes – none of the reading, exams or the sample stuff. After classes ended, I did all of the practice material (mainly multiple choice stuff, because I was pretty sure I would be fine on the essays) and made flash cards as a way of studying. (This was for California – hard, but not as many subjects as some other states, from what I understand, so perhaps less material to master?)

      I had a little freakout the week before results came out, worrying that I hadn’t done enough. But assuming you are attentive and spend some quality time in the last month studying, you should be fine. And you get to spend a summer largely unencumbered by school or work.

    6. I highly recommend making it a priority to have a life outside of Bar Bri.

      Studying continuously will make you crazy, and will make you fail.
      Studying for the Bar feels emotionally like everything you felt in your first 1L semester, compressed into 2 months. You need family/friends/partner/etc. to keep you sane. I also needed beer and music. You may also need exercise, yoga, whatever works for you. You should let your loved ones know that you’ll need extra relaxation time during this period.

      It’s not the time to get into fights with your partner, get married, have a baby, or move across the country. Save big changes in your life until after the exam.

      That being said: follow the Bar Bri schedule as best you can (except, apparently, if you’re in Florida). It’s ok if you miss a day or two, and take evenings and weekends off.

      The toughest thing for me was making sure I moved on to the next topic every day, even though I still felt underwater with the previous day’s topic. You *must* move on. You will *not* master any one topic. (And you are not a dumb person, as you will think.)

      Keep plodding along. Don’t start until the Bar Bri schedule starts. It’s all designed to keep you sane and to make you pass.

    7. I would highly recommended taking something other than BarBri if you think that BarBri won’t match your learning style (watch a few of the vids & see if you are getting anywhere with them).

    8. It’s really not that bad. I took the CA bar and exercised every day, had dinner with my BF and even went out at night. If you are efficient, you can get it all done. Just go straight from BarBri lecture to the library and set aside 4 1/2 or so hours a day to work. If you focus hard during those hours, you will be just fine! Of course the last 2 weeks this will all go out the window and you will study harder. But don’t burn out now.

    9. I thought I wasn’t nervous at all, but I woke up last night in cold sweats from my first bar-related nightmare. I’m choosing to look on this as an initiation.

  20. Does anyone have any suggestions for makeup that really really lasts all day? Everything I try tends to wear off after 4-ish hours, and I really need something that can last all day without looking like it is caked on. People have had a lot of luck with MAC but I’m always scared by the people they have working there since I’m not a big makeup wearer anyway.

    1. I swear by MAC. Yes, their salespeople can have very loud makeup on, but I find it’s just a marketing ploy- everytime I’ve gone in and said I work in finance and it’s uber conservative, they’ve never put anything on me I was the least bit concerned about. Try and make an appointment during the week/morning when it’s less hectic. Additionally, it’s really all about the primer or base you are using – I find that MAC slides off my face during a working day (I’m also a face toucher, eye rubber), but the primer really helps it go ALL day.

      1. MAC salespeople are the only ones who don’t try to cover your face in every single product they make. If you say, “I’d like eyeshadow for my conservative office… ” you’ll get exactly that.

        Love MAC.

      2. I love the Mac primer.

        Also, for eye liner, Bobbie Brown gel eyeliner is great. I’ve tried the Maybelline version, and it’s okay, but it seems to have faded by day’s end. The Bobbie Brown carries me through the entire day.

        1. Two more last-all-day tools for me: Urban Decay Primer Potion keeps my eye shadow from creasing, and Blinc mascara keeps my mascara from giving me racoon eyes. I know these have been mentioned on this site before.

    2. I agree that while the MAC sales people look like they have tons of make-up on in wild colors, if you say you need something work appropriate, they are really helpful in coming up with tasteful looks. Keep in mind that if you make an appointment at a MAC store in advance, they sometimes charge you for the appointment (not just having to buy makeup, but an actual fee). I was pretty ticked off when that happened to me because they did not tell me in advance. I finally got it refunded, but MAC corporate has aweful customer service. Never encountered the fee with an appointment at a department store MAC counter.

    3. Yeah, I pretty much only wear MAC. In my experience, it’s the only makeup that lasts all day, and as others have said, don’t let the salespeople with the huge tats and theater makeup scare you, they are trained to work with all kinds of people. I also love that they won’t try to send you home with a full bag of products, just what you came in for, although they are good (with me, at least) about letting me know “we just got such and such product, do you want to try it?”

      1. Oh, I hate MAC. Every time I’ve been to a MAC counter, the salesperson is rude and talks to me like he or she just can’t be bothered. Love the makeup, hate the service.

    4. It doesn’t work for everyone, but I am gonna go ahead and recommend Revlon Colorstay foundation. If you can find one that matches your skintone and apply it with a light hand it makes your skin look smooth and flawless all day. I recommend the kind for oily/combination skin.

      My makeup lasts all day. First, I stipple my foundation on with a makeup sponge to the parts of my face which need coverage. Next, I apply a light layer of matte cream blush on the apples of my cheeks. On top of that, I lightly brush powder blush and sweep it back into my hairline. I am always careful not to use too much blush, but by layering powder blush on top of cream blush, I increase the staying power of my blush. Next, I use waterproof makeup for my eye area. Use of neutral colors and light application are the keys to making eye makeup looks good even if it fades or runs a bit. Sometimes, if I want my makeup to last extra long, I’ll apply a bit of powder as a finishing touch. Make Up For Ever has a nice transparant finishing powder which helps.

      1. I second the revlon colorstay- I have oily skin and it’s one of the only foundations I’ve tried that doesn’t wear off by lunchtime. Because it can go on a bit thick, sometimes I will lightly wet my makeup sponge before using it to apply the foundation.

      1. Why not buy online and save yourself the trip? Unless you need to see the colors in person.

        1. I do not have an online payment option in my country.
          I am using an upcoming trip to the USA to stock up on essentials.

    6. I’ve never actually tried MAC, but that is what the makeup artist I hired for my upcoming tropical wedding uses. If she thinks it holds up to the sweat and tears of a tropical wedding than it must have staying power.

  21. Find myself overwhelmed sometimes. I am resentful of my job for taking time away from my family. And then resentful for my family, for not being able to devote myself to my job.

    Feeling sorry for myself because my work now isn’t what it used to be pre-family. No matter how many late nights I put in, it doesn’t equal what it was before. It’s a lot more work, for less reward (at work). I know it’s fair, but I often wish it was pro-rated. Or that I had a stay at home wife. All I am is tired.

    My family is definitely worth it. But sometimes, I do pity myself.

      1. I agree. It is rough, and I don’t care what some people say. It is difficult to have it all.

    2. Here here – it’s hard to vacillate between loving/hating your family life/job on a daily basis.

    3. I totally hear you. I spent a lot of time feeling as though I was totally screwing up at home or at work, or being a crappy mom and a crappy doctor, not even to mention housework, extended family, etc.

      For me, fortunately, we have the income to ease up on some things that are not important to me to do myself (laundry, housekeeping, etc). And I changed my job so that I had fewer hours. Going from working 80 hours a week to 50 hours a week is radically different. There is this thing, called well, “self time” where I actually do something for myself. It’s weird, I didn’t get used to it for awhile, but I sort of like it now.

      My grandma told me at a young age “you can have anything you want, just not everything you want.” Look at you life, define your priorities and work towards changes.

      I hear you though. That bone exhaustion coupled with constant disappointment in yourself is a tough load to bear. Many of us have been there.

      1. You didn’t ask for advice, but I hope you are spending money on things that make your life easier, like maid service!

      1. I’m there with you…even working my 37 hour work week (yay Europe in house) I feel like I am missing out on being with my 11-month old son…who since he was home with Daddy for the past 4 months now prefers DH to me sometimes…ouch. I had to work till 6 for a few weeks and only got 1 hour with my son…I cried every night.

        DH has 3 interviews this week, and as soon as he starts working we get to get maid service…yay! :)

        But the balance is never easy.

  22. Ladies, I really need some anonymous advice. My truly wonderful boyfriend has purchased an engagement ring. It was important to him to choose it totally himself and for it to be a surprise. Fine….except, I found the ring (I wasn’t even snooping. I was looking for some tape).

    The ring is probably objectively pretty, and would most likely look lovely on someone with lovely thin fingers. Unfortunately, my hands are the definition of stubby and chubby. I hate it, though I realize the problem is probably more my hands than the ring.

    I know my boyfriend put a lot of effort into this, and it breaks my heart that he spent so much money on something I dislike so much. I also feel awful about feeling so superficial. The truth is, I never needed a ring, and told him this much. But he is traditional and insisted on it.

    He hasn’t given me the ring yet, and he doesn’t know I’ve seen it. I would never ask him to change it because I would never want to hurt his feelings. Plus, I do appreciate the sentiment behind it. I guess after I get married I can try to just wear a wedding band.

    In the meantime, I’m hoping to hear from other ladies who initially disliked their ring but learned to love it. Is this possible? I really hope this happens, but right now the thought of it brings me tears. Any other advice also appreciated.

    1. Can you enlist a friend to “confidentially” tell him about your “dream ring” that you “didn’t want to tell him about” but you’re “secretly hoping for”? That way he doesn’t know you know he bought a ring, but maybe he’ll exchange it for one that suits you better.

      1. I like this suggestion. You should have a ring you are happy to wear!

        As an alternative, is it the setting you don’t like, or the center stone itself? If you like the stone, it may hurt his feelings less for you to ask for a different setting — one girl I knew switched from a gold setting to platinum halfway through her engagement because she finally admitted she hated the gold.

        While I obviously don’t know your fiance-to-be, I think my husband’s feelings would be more hurt by seeing me reluctant to show people the ring, or not wearing it whenever I could avoid it, rather than asking to change the ring. If you want to have that conversation, I’d give it a few days after he proposes — you could bring it up as now that the initial flurry of excitement has calmed, you have been thinking about the ring style and would he mind if you thought about other settings, etc.

        and early congratulations :)

      2. I agree with having a friend mention something. You are obviously unhappy with the ring. If he knows you, and hopefully he does, he will be able to read it on your face that you don’t like it.

    2. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s not all about you. The ring means a lot to him so suck it up and wear it for a while.

      Marriage is all about compromise.

      Wear it for year or so, then keep it someplace safe.

      1. One of my best friends received an engagement ring that she initially didn’t like. Didn’t love the setting, was in yellow gold, etc. However, in the close to 10 years she has now worn it (and the matching wedding band), she has grown to love the sentiment behind it. She knows her husband put a lot into designing it and used a family stone.

        As an aside, of my friends that are married (many of whom have what would be considered “better” rings), she and her husband are the happiest. So, it really is about more than the ring.

        I agree with the previous poster, accept with glee when he proposes and try it out for a a year or so. It may grow on you as you consider the love with which it was selected.

        Congratulations!

    3. Is there a type of ring you wanted instead, and if you had said ring, would you want to wear it every day?

      Here’s my take: if I were in his position, my goal would be to give you something beautiful that you loved and were excited to wear. I wouldn’t want to give you something where you were counting down the days until it could go in a drawer.

      In my mind, the point of an engagement ring isn’t to bring you to sad tears. I agree that marriage is about compromise, but frankly, why have him spend so much money on something you don’t like?

    4. I’m really sorry. You should have a ring you love, and I bet he’d be less hurt if you told him you’d prefer something different than if you stopped wearing it without really giving him an explanation. I like the suggestion to have a friend tell him about what you really would want. Hopefully when he gives it to you he’ll also be considerate enough to ask if you like it–and then you can be honest too if he doesn’t listen to your friend. It’s way too expensive a purchase for you not to love it!

    5. I think you need to confess that you found the ring and that you don’t care for it. While this is an uncomfortable truth, it is the truth. If you love and trust each other enough to get married, you should be able to discuss this and any other truth.

      NOT telling him now will very likely lead to a different truth in the future: that he will have spent a lot of money on a ring that you hate and don’t want to wear. How will that make him feel when he finds out? I’m guessing is will hurt his feelings even more.

      This is a lot of angst over a piece of jewelry. What are the real issues here? His need to be traditional and surprising, your self-image about your fingers, not wanting to hurt his feelings at the price of multiple thousands of dollars. Control, communication, compromise: they all should be discussed out in the open before marriage.

      No easy answers, but I hope you can talk to him about how bad you are feeling. He loves you and wants to marry you; I’m sure he doesn’t want you to be close to tears about this!

      1. I agree with Louise on this. Now is the time to be open and honest, before he gives it to you and your heart sinks every time you feel you have to fake that you like it when you don’t.

        Get friends to help you figure out what to say so that your approach can be both gracious and honest. Ideally, I would have loved for my husband to choose the perfect ring for me on his own, but practically, I knew the chances were low. My husband has an engineer’s mind AND loves a good investment, so I appealed to his mindset by telling him what cut and clarity were important to me; the smallest size diamond that looked good on my hand; gold vs. platinum, etc. Armed with my preferences and his research, he found something on Blue Nile that we are both happy with.

        Even though you don’t want a ring, if he insists on buying one, it should be one that you will enjoy looking at for the rest of your life. He needs to understand this. Help him understand what looks good on you.

    6. I agree with the “have a friend tell him” suggestion. (Anyone else flashing back to the SATC episode where Aidan got Carrie a terrible ring that Miranda helped him pick out, and Samantha helped Aidan get better one?) If the friend can’t make any headway, then I would wait until you get the ring, wear it for a couple of weeks, and then tell your fiance “I hate to bring this up, but I am having trouble with the ring for X and Y reason.” (“It catches on too many things” is a good reason, FYI.)

      While I agree it is not all about you and the ring is a gift from the heart that should be appreciated for what it is, I also think that your soon-to-be fiance should not be so into his own ideas of how an engagement should work that he disregards your happiness; that doesn’t bode well for the marriage. If he’s going to dig in his heels about the ring, will he also do that if he finds a house you don’t like? Or you think it’s time to have kids and he doesn’t? I believe in appreciating gifts as-is, but I also think as a gift-giver, your boyfriend should want you to be happy, especially as you will be wearing this ring every day for a long time. If he gets offended and makes a big deal out of being told that you prefer a different ring, all I can say is marry the guy with your eyes wide open, in terms of his attitude towards compromise and your happiness. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

      1. Well put, Ann. And I also had that flashback — on a lighter note, at least OP didn’t vomit! :)

    7. Anon, at risk of my fantastic husband ever hearing this, he picked the ring and it isn’t at all what I would’ve picked (yellow gold, round solitaire). My best friends know it isn’t the ring I would’ve picked, but I’ve worn it very happily for 7 years now. if you can stand the ring, do so, IMHO. It is a gift from your soon-t0-be husband, so treat it as such. If you truly can’t stand it, swap it out after 5-10 years. And be grateful you have a marriage that is far more important than the ring ;-)

    8. My husband and I talked a lot about my engagement ring before he proposed and he ended up letting me pick it (for which I’ll be forever grateful). But I asked his opinion about your scenario, and he said if he were in that situation, his feelings would probably have been hurt, but he would ultimately have wanted me to have a ring I was happy and excited to wear, so he would have gotten over it. FWIW.

      My other thought is if you could arrange to be near a jewelry store with him sometime soon so that you can ~browse~ and express your opinion on rings.

    9. I think what a lot of posters are missing is that it was important to him to pick it himself and that it be a surprise. Given that, I don’t think he’ll react well to subtle suggestions that he exchange it. It also sounds like your concern is how it looks on your hands and less about the ring itself being tacky or ugly… Maybe you’re overreacting? Lots of engagement rings morph over time, and maybe you’ll grow attached to it… But then again, if you really hate it, you probably need to talk about it, but I don’t think the subtle “she always said she wanted X” will work if he really thinks he picked something you’ll like without a direct info on your response to the specific ring. So I think one of two ways: either enjoy the sentiment behind it and evolve over time, or tell him you found it and what you feel (note also I’m not sure if it’s a do-over level of issues or small tweaks that would make you love it)

      1. Thanks so much for all of the helpful replies. I’ve thought about more, and I think the last anonymous hit in the head. The ring is pretty; so hopefully I am overreacting about how it looks on my hands (I have always been self-conscious about them, and I think the thought of drawing more attention to them makes me nervous). I think this is true especially because I don’t have some “dream ring” style that I want instead.

        My boyfriend is amazing, and would never insist I wear something that I didn’t like. I know he put a lot of effort into it, and I would never want to hurt his feelings. I’m already warming up to the sentiment behind it, and I have high hopes that I will warm up to how the ring looks on my finger as well. Thanks again for all of your support.

        1. It’s probably a good thing that you found it first because you’ll be over your shock and dismay by the time he gives it to you and can then express your happiness at being engaged instead of your (hopefully former) dislike of the ring. In the long term, it’s good that you didn’t have a preconceived notion of what kind of ring you wanted.

          And as a fellow stubby-fingered person, I bet the ring looks fine. Maybe a manicure would help you get into the ring spirit?

          1. That is what I was going to suggest – a manicure. Getting gel nails, for example, looks natural but gives stubby fingers a chance to look longer and more elegant (been there!)

    10. Agree with previous posters about pointing out the parts you like, and the parts you’d like to change. Chances are, he had no clue what to get and is not emotionally attached to the ring design (unless he designed it himself or something like that). My now-husband was more than happy to switch the setting right away (within the 1st week), to something I preferred. Also, once I got the band, it looks different on my finger to wear them both together – do you see potential for your ring to go with a band that flatters both? Also, I’m sure I’m not the only one here who is curious what makes this ring so terrible – I have big, chubby fingers myself (large knuckles, too).

  23. I found out on Monday that I passed the bar exam. (yay!) The thing is that there is a new requirement to take this 2 day CLE next Thursday and Friday. Luckily I got my firm to cover the $200 cost (where did they expect us to get that money a week and a half after passing?) Anyway, it’s a CLE exclusively for brand new lawyers that just passed in February but also includes networking lunches and the like. Should I plan on wearing suits both days or go for more business casual? One other question for the lawyer corporettes, how did you deal with the time period between finding out you passed and getting sworn in? It seems I won’t get sworn in until the last week of April. This gives me time to figure out travel plans for my parents, but when would be the best time to talk to my boss about my new lawyer pay raise/schedule? I’m currently still on the paralegal pay scale that I’ve been on since August and imagine I’ll stay on it until I get sworn in. Any advice would be mega helpful, thanks!

    1. I’d wear a sheath dress and jacket the first day to get a feel for what people are wearing.
      Not sure about your pay scale. Your employer can’t charge for your time like a lawyer until you’re sworn, so I can see an argument for them not to increase your pay for the three weeks in between. Do you have an HR person you can talk to to find out what the policy is?
      And congratulations!

      1. Thanks Jay! It’s a small firm i.e. 1 lawyer, 2 full time paralegals and 1 part time legal assistant + me so no dedicated HR person to ask. I could ask either of the paralegals, but one is the attorney’s sister and the other has worked there for so long that she’s essentially family. I’m thinking of having the talk next week on our car drive to some depos just so I can have it done with and out of the way and so feet won’t be dragging after I get sworn in. I just don’t want to come off as money hungry but it would be nice to know what to expect.

        1. I think you have it covered – talk to your attorney supervisor in private. Sounds like the car ride might be perfect. Or just walk into his office. You’re not money-hungry, you need the plan to be in place.

          And there’s nothing wrong with inquiring about your compensation, or negotiating for more. That’s what men do, and why we don’t make as much as them. It’s called advocating for yourself.

          And: Congratulations!

          As for the CLE, my state is pretty casual, so I’d wear slacks/khakis, flats, and a nice sweater and scarf or something.

    2. You should find out if you really need to be “officially sworn in.” Call the state bar. Ask what happens if you can’t go to the swearing in ceremony. If they tell you to get sworn in by a judge, ask – do you need an affidavit, does the judge have to sign something, mail anything in, etc. After much digging, it turns out that swearing in is largely ceremonial in my state (TX). It was suggested that I find a judge to swear me in, or that I print the oath and recite it to a notary (I think an affidavit may be involved) but there is(was?) no true, formal requirement of swearing in.

  24. Got schooled by my contract supervisor (a very nice person who I think was schooling me largely because he had to, and did it about as nicely as he could) because the government clients I am working complained to him about me regarding some extremely and terribly inocuous things (that I was never even told about, directly by them) that make me think the government supervisory clients have a personal vendetta against me.

    To add fuel to the fire, my office is incredibly unprofessional and sexist: the men curse (one supervisor called somebody a “dips**t” in regards to a project he criticized me on because I told him “I am working as fast as I can,” which he found rude and offensive, but calling sombody a “dips**t” apparently isn’t), the men belch and fart during the day, they often rank Disney girl characters (yes, the 15 year old ones like Hannah Montana of yesteryear) in terms of “hotness,” one man chews tobacco and spits in a can (this is government space, by the way…), the supervisors often tell me and another female coworker that our hair or clothes look “lovely” in a sort of awkward/obsessive/creepy way beyond just a regular compliment, the men workers often loiter around the office and “shoot the s**t” if you will with the male supervisors (whereas if I or the other female coworker chime in, we get “teased” for not working), and so many other issues that you would almost laugh at because you might say, “I thought stuff like that only happened in those laughable HR videos where we all say, NO OFFICES ARE REALLY LIKE THAT when we are forced to watch them.” Well, mine is, it’s all that and more.

    So, now I’m freaked out that despite being the best at my job in the office, doing some awesome products in the short time I have been there, and being a generally kind and arespectful person, that my government supervisors don’t care and just have it out for me. To think they focussed on such inocuous things about me after all I have done, completely ignored talking to me about it and giving me a chance to improve, and went straight to my contract supervisor who is obliged to create an ‘incident’ over it in the name of client service makes me very frightened that the clients don’t give a rat’s about what I do and just have it out for me. Apparently I am being forced into ‘apology sessions’ with each government client next week.

    I am so disparaged. I give them all the benefit of the doubt when they heckle and curse and fart, and this is how I am treated. I would also like to mention that re one of the instances I was schooled on (for saying I was working as fast as I could and nothing more) that I alone saved the product in question from complete disaster, finished it in record time, and sent it up to a reviewer about 3 notches down from a particular government secretary (ie, a Secretary Gates type) with ZERO COMMENTS and full permission to disseminate the document. Instead of praise, I get an incident raised about me because I told my supervisor in a blunt but polite way, “I am working as fast as I can.”

    What do I even do? I just feel crushed and worthless and like nothing I have done has spoken to these boors.

    1. Quit! Be nice about it and give a few weeks notice, but quit! In the alternative, you could chew tobacco, spit it into your trash can, fart, rank male Disney characters by hotness, and make fun of your coworkers all day.

      I think you already know your coworkers won’t change. But you can leave. The option is available to you. I urge you to take it.

      1. K is right! You sound awesome and you are undoubtedly great at your job! You will find something better and this will just be one of those unbelievable stories about your career. In the meantime, keep your cool, think that you are on the set of an absurdist play and work on making a graceful and swift exit ;)

    2. Hooo, boy. :) I also work for government clients. I have a different perspective for you.

      “So, now I’m freaked out that despite being the best at my job in the office, doing some awesome products in the short time I have been there, and being a generally kind and arespectful person, that my government supervisors don’t care and just have it out for me. To think they focussed on such inocuous things about me after all I have done, completely ignored talking to me about it and giving me a chance to improve, and went straight to my contract supervisor who is obliged to create an ‘incident’ over it in the name of client service makes me very frightened that the clients don’t give a rat’s about what I do and just have it out for me. Apparently I am being forced into ‘apology sessions’ with each government client next week.”

      Welcome to working with government contract supervisors. As one of my co-workers (who has been in government contracting for 20 years) says, they believe they are God and the only way to really deal with them is to bow down and say “Yes sir, please may I have another?” They act like gods because they basically are – they have supreme authority over everything in their domain, including all the contracts they supervise and all the employees in those contracts. I am not sure if you are aware, but a federal government CO (contracting officer) can terminate a contract with a contractor for any reason or no reason, aka “for convenience,” at any time. There are contract review boards contractors can apply to, but they rarely grant relief to the contractor. That’s why supervisors on the contracting side are obliged to over-respond to complaints from COs, because the contractor has almost no recourse for losing a multimillion-dollar contract because the CO didn’t like the shirts someone wore to work.

      I was recently in a very similar situation to yours – I was supervising a contract and had been trying to get some feedback from the CO on how our employees on the contract were performing. I called, emailed, had meetings with him, everything I have ever done in my life in dealing with a CO or client to maintain a healthy relationship and get information. His responses to my questions were sporadic and uninformative, then all of a sudden we were getting NO information. I mean none, whatsoever. Then all of a sudden a formal letter (not a “cure notice” but formal nonetheless) arrived at my office with a litany of complaints, specific things I had asked him about and followed up on many times. I set a meeting with the CO but sent in my coworker instead of myself, and he came back from the meeting with this feedback: “He loves you and he likes all our employees, but he doesn’t feel we’ve taken the time to get to know him as a person. So I sat in his office and talked about fly-fishing and gardening for an hour and a half. He’s fine now.”

      There you have it. I am not going to say all government COs are like this but a lot of them are. Gigantic egos satisfied by making people they consider to be “lower than them” miserable.

      Your supervisors probably don’t have it out for you, but I wouldn’t bet money they care about your work products either. They probably got bored one day and felt like throwing their weight around, and they did it by complaining about you to your supervisors. Yes, you will be forced to do “apology sessions” and if you go, try to be as sincere and apologetic as possible, and then go laugh your butt off with some coworkers or friends later.

      I know it’s hard not to take these things personally, but this is almost certainly not personal. I have had COs complain to me about employees wearing too much perfume (the employee in question had chemical sensitivity and never wore any); about an employee coming in 5 minutes late to work one time after three years of perfect, punctual attendance; about an employee using “too many exclamation points and question marks” in INFORMAL emails the employee was sending to her lateral coworkers, that the CO happened to see. Go watch some of the Futurama episodes with Hermes Conrad, the bureaucrat – that’s pretty much how they are. It doesn’t matter if the building’s on fire as long as the paperwork for the fire insurance is in perfect order. It’s crazy-making at times, but definitely not personal.

      I have no advice about the bad work environment other than document and complain, but you may be better off leaving, because usually stuff like that doesn’t change unless you have a boss who is really invested in changing it. I just thought I’d give you some perspective on the “government employee criticism” thing, because I don’t want you beating yourself up about it. :)

      1. Thanks for this SO much. This is an incredible perspective, especially from somebody more in a leadership position (it seems). Thank you, for real, this is honestly very helpful and might actually change my course of action from what I was planning.

        I will likely a) do the apology sessions and apologize. With one supervisor it will be pure bullsh*t but I will kiss up a bit for the sake of flattering him. With the other, who I think is slightly more reasonable, I will probably voice a small opinion, but I will be as reserved as I can be while apologizing but still asking for more direct feedback in the future.

        Then, b) I will probably talk to our company team lead (the one who had to school me and seemed more on my side than not) a bit more candidly and ask him to perhaps watch out a bit for me in the sense that maybe he can help me to develop strategies to follow up with the clients and basically cover my own skin, if you will. I could care less about this from an ego perspective, but I am up for a promotion in a few months and don’t want these horrible government people to jeopardize that because I said “I am working as fast as I can”. I basically want to ensure I am doing everything I can to defend myself and make the company supervisor know that I am working to “improve” (so that if the clients turn around and do this again, I’ve covered myself and the company supervisor knows it’s them and not me because he has seen the efforts I have been trying to make).

        Finally, c) I am going to talk to my administrative career manager about switching contracts and what prospects are available right now. It might be that this is the only billable work and I need to stick it out, but if he says, well there may be A, B, or C, I am going to really consider that and try to talk with him about the office space not being a good fit, and from a development perspective, I need to be somewhere else where I am not feeling afraid and threatened because of the ways people are acting and behaving.

        Thanks again, this makes me feel a lot better.

      2. Thanks for this SO much. This is an incredible perspective, especially from somebody more in a leadership position (it seems). Thank you, for real, this is honestly very helpful and might actually change my course of action from what I was planning.

        I will likely a) do the apology sessions and apologize. With one supervisor it will be pure bullsh*t but I will kiss up a bit for the sake of flattering him. With the other, who I think is slightly more reasonable, I will probably voice a small opinion, but I will be as reserved as I can be while apologizing but still asking for more direct feedback in the future.

        Then, b) I will probably talk to our company team lead (the one who had to school me and seemed more on my side than not) a bit more candidly and ask him to perhaps watch out a bit for me in the sense that maybe he can help me to develop strategies to follow up with the clients and basically cover my own skin, if you will. I could care less about this from an ego perspective, but I am up for a promotion in a few months and don’t want these horrible government people to jeopardize that because I said “I am working as fast as I can”. I basically want to ensure I am doing everything I can to defend myself and make the company supervisor know that I am working to “improve” (so that if the clients turn around and do this again, I’ve covered myself and the company supervisor knows it’s them and not me because he has seen the efforts I have been trying to make).

        Finally, c) I am going to talk to my administrative career manager about switching contracts and what prospects are available right now. It might be that this is the only billable work and I need to stick it out, but if he says, well there may be A, B, or C, I am going to really consider that and try to talk with him about the office space not being a good fit, and from a development perspective, I need to be somewhere else where I am not feeling afraid and threatened because of the ways people are acting and behaving.

        Thanks again, this makes me feel a lot better.

    3. Hmm…do you work in Warner Robins, Ga? heh, that was exactly my experience when I worked DoD contracting there. Except it didn’t bother me too much. If they crossed the line, I gave them my school marm look and lightly said “Alright now…” and they stopped. I didn’t take anything personally. My government clients (one of whom I chided several times) loved me. I was upfront when it was serious (think racist jokes) but let the childish, essentially harmless stuff go (like chewing tobacco and farting). Right before I left for law school, I got big raises and a promotion. Still left, it was just too slow for me. But now I’m glad I went through it since I got a pretty thick skin from it.

      1. I’m just worried that given the nature of their complaints it will affect the promotion I am going to be assessed for in a few months. I don’t know how deep these complaints run- if this is just them puffing their feathers up (not serious) or they really have it out for me and want to find anything to get noted as a development action that might keep me from a promotion (serious). It’s just hard to know. I do put up with all their antics, and I am a good sport about it, so I guess I figured that + the work I do would endear me to them a bit more. Guess not. :-\

      2. Hah. Warner Robins is right down the road from my home town. Let’s just say there’s a reason I moved. (though if you are in the South and they say something particularly offensive, the “What would your mother think if she heard you say that?” line will work with most southern boys).

  25. Hope this isn’t too late in the weekend to get some advice – does anyone have the Nine West Rocha in either taupe leather or porcini? I want “nude for me” shoes, but I am having a hard time telling which one will be closer to my skin tone by looking at the web pictures. Something tells me they are different in person, and none of the reviews seem to address this issue. I’m pretty pale, when using foundation I’ll use the second or third lightest option. TIA

    http://piperlime.gap.com/browse/product.do?searchCID=4016&cid=4016&vid=1&pid=621413&scid=621413122

      1. So helpful! Thanks so much. I also LOVE that dress she is wearing in the blog post.. hmm new blog addiction

        1. I have these shoes in Taupe. They look a little darker in the picture than they are in real life. I use “Bobbi Brown Warm Honey” foundation. The Taupe color is a color shades lighter than my skin tone.

          I am a pretty big baby when it comes to shoe comfort but I find these pretty comfortable for its height.

          Hope this helps!

    2. Or, try the “light gray”, which are not grey at all. I use those as my neutral pump. http://amzn.to/hh04cD

      I think this might really be a case where you are going to need to seem them in person, depending on how perfect you want the match. Online pictures are only going to tell you so much. Piperlime does free shipping, right? So order what you’re thinking and return the rest.

    3. Hi there! I just saw your comment and had to share that I actually had the same question as you, and actually ordered BOTH Taupe and Porcini to compare haha…when they arrived I honestly could not tell the difference and am still puzzled as to why they made it two different colors. Both colors looked just like the Taupe that I posted about. And PS – they pinched my toes, and that has never happened to me before! Sadly both had to go back.

      Emmaline – thank you for sharing : )

  26. I’m a regular poster, but have to be anon for this. This personal/career advice, and I’ve talked to my friends and family, but they have sort of a vested interest in the outcome, so objective advice is really needed.

    My marriage of five years recently ended. I had moved across the country to be with my spouse. My family, and all of my dearest friends, live on the opposite coast, and although I’ve made friends in my new city, even after a few years, I don’t have the truly close, dear, pick-up-the-phone-and-talk-anytime friends that I have back in my home city or the city where I went to school. In addition, without getting into too much detail, I’d say that I’m not sure if New City is going to be the best place for me to date and (hopefully) marry again, because there’s a bit of a values mismatch/cultural disconnect between me and most people who live here. I am really lonely, and it’s hard for me to see a future for myself here.

    So what’s the hang-up? Well, to put it bluntly (and this may put some people off, but I think I have to be honest to get truly helpful advice), I’m one of my (500-lawyer, ten-office) firm’s superstar associates. I’m given an enormous amount of opportunity/responsibility for my level of seniority, get bonuses in years when no one else does, and have been told that I have been called out within the partnership as a key future leader for the firm, especially given my somewhat specialized practice area. Later this year, I will be given primary responsibility for all of the matters we handle for a very large corporation while the supervising partner is on maternity leave. I’m a fourth year. I say this not to brag, but to make it clear that my professional situation is virtually perfect – I love it, and I am appreciated and rewarded for my work.

    I know that that, career-wise, this is a golden opportunity not to be wasted, and I’m horribly, horribly torn, because on a non-career level, I’m incredibly miserable. My family and friends want me to come back to Old City; the few work friends I’ve spoken to think I’m crazy for possibly leaving this job. I have great mentors and great opportunity here. One option is to transfer to one of my firm’s other offices (there’s one near, but not in, Old City), but I wouldn’t have partner mentors in my practice area in another office, so I’m not sure if it would work.

    I’m in a corporate practice area and I have no kids, if it makes a difference. Thoughts/advice/help?

    1. I empathize with you completely. I really enjoy my job, but the city/area is a total mismatch for me in terms of values and available activities. I am trying my best to get involved, but I just feel like whatever I do I am not going to be truly happy here.

      It sounds like you have an opportunity to transfer, and if you’re as good at your work as you say, I think you should be able to excel at your firm’s office nearer to home. If there aren’t any partners in your practice area, it seems like that could give you more opportunities to do high-level work. I’d suggest talking it over with the people in your office to see what they suggest. I doubt they’d want to lose you, and moving may end up working to your advantage.

    2. If you’re truly miserable in your personal life, all the professional success in the world won’t mkae up for it. I’d try to keep the professional capital you’ve built at your firm by transferring to another office closer to your old city. Your current mentors and coworkers will understand, and you’ll arrive with good recommendations and contacts.

    3. I think that you should go for the transfer. What good does it do you to work a fabulous job if you are personally miserable? None. Based on your success there (which, BTW, good for you; I am very impressed that you’ve been so successful!), I’d bet that you’ll have no problems winning over the supervisors and partners in Close to Old City City, and I’d bet that, being close to Old City, the values and culture would be similar to what you prefer, those of Old City.

      Good luck!

    4. I’d stay and do a rockstar job on the new responsibility. Then, I’d start networking with the partners in your practice group near Old City. You are in a sweet spot where you can benefit from supporting partners in both offices. If you can do this successfully, you can switch offices with little to no professional repercussions. Good luck.

      1. Thanks. I am really hoping that doing a good job covering the partner’s mat leave will give me a basis on which to make the argument that the move to the other office will work, even if I can’t be as closely supervised there.

        1. I agree to stay through the maternity leave, at least, to show your ability. That’s great that you’ve been recognized!

          A few things to consider –

          1. how is the office near Old City treated within the firm? Stepsibling satellite or integral part? Is it well known there, or existing so the firm just say it has a presence in X market?

          2. how common/convenient is inter-office work, especially across a 3-hr time difference? Would you have to take on (even more) responsibility to create your own work in the Old City office, or could you still rely on being given work from Current City office?

          3. how valuable/in demand is your specialty area in Old City? Some specialties (bankruptcy and tax come to mind) travel better than others. Ex, my firm has a much bigger IP presence in CA than say, in TX, and have more energy presence in TX than in Chicago. Etc.

          1. These are really helpful questions to think about! My specialty doesn’t necessarily travel well generally, but fortunately would translate extremely well to Old City. And cross-office work in my specialty is common, although I make a lot of my hours off of general corporate work, and that tends to be more office-bound.

            #1 is tough; our office in Old City isn’t as strong as we would like it to be (a lot of aging partners and a lack of aggressive business developers), but due to the nature of our practice, it’s integral to what we do. The firm is trying to build the office up, so one thought that I have is that maybe I can best pitch this move by explaining how I’d fit into the rebuilding effort.

    5. Assuming the divorce happened fairly recently, I’d say you should stay put for a year, just to give yourself some time for things to normalize a bit. Use that time to network and feel out what your options would be moving back home, and to get the inside scoop on your firm’s office out there. If it would be a dead end to take a position there, you’ll want to consider other firms back home. But don’t rush it — take the time to get to know the whole situation and start making connections.

      1. Yeah, I’ve told myself that I don’t have too/need to do anything about this until later this year. It’s been about 6 months, but I still feel pretty personally unsettled.

    6. Given your apparent competence, I’m not sure you won’t achieve similar super-stardom at another firm in Old City. Is there a reason you’re resistant to moving firms?

      I hate to mention this, but firms change and one year’s superstar can be next years old newspaper. As an organization, I’ve rarely seen a firm that has truly had the best interest of their lawyers at heart. Not for associates, and sometimes not even for partners (except maybe for the highest, most rain-makingest partners). My old firm just did a sweep and dump and fairly unceremoniously kicked several junior partners out.

      1. I’m nervous about moving firms in part because firms in the Old City area have a much tougher work culture for lawyers than does my current firm. Basically, at my current firm, I have the opportunity to work with top-flight clients without having a 2000 hr/year billable requirement. I’ve chatted with associates in our office in Old City and they’ve confirmed that this kinder, gentler work culture persists even though it’s an anomaly for the city. My current firm is a pretty great place with regard to work/life balance, and it’s also family-friendly. As a job candidate, it’s often hard to distinguish firms that truly have a great work/life culture from those that only pay lip service, and it’s hard to give that up.

        I also practice in a kind of specialized corporate area that not all firms have, so the options are a bit more limited.

  27. Chicago ladies (and those that are really familiar).

    I’m going to Chicago in two weeks to meet up with some of my bestest-college girlfriends for a mini-reunion. We haven’t seen each other in years as we’ve scattered to the four winds.

    Anyhow, we’re staying in the Loop and I’m trying to come up with ideas for dinner esp. Saturday night. Now, if nothing works out, I’m sure we’d be happy to order in Chinese to the hotel room and just chill.

    But, it would be great if we could find some ideas that we could get into, not too expensive, not too loud, pretty easy to get to from the loop (willing to cab, take L etc.)etc.

    thanks!!

      1. Oh my gosh, really? I know two different people who have gotten food poisoning there.

        This would only appeal to someone who lives/grew up in the burbs and doesn’t know what good food tastes like.

        1. I disagree. I love Bandera, have lived in the city for 12 years, and I know what good food tastes like. No, it’s not Charlie Trotter’s or Everest or Tru (nor is it as pricey), but it’s a fun, relaxing atmosphere with yummy comfort food.

    4. Sable Kitchen + Bar
      Sepia
      Publican
      Frontera Grill (yes, you will have to wait to be seated, but you can drink many margaritas while you do it)
      Purple Pig (on Michigan Avenue north of the river, but really a pleasant walk if it is not too cold)

      All of these offer an excellent food and beverage selection and are either walkable or a short cab/L ride. Most of them are relatively casual, but I would dress a little more for Sable or Sepia (although jeans with heels and a nice top and blazer would be fine).

      1. Thank you all!

        I love Frontera Grill, so that is a thought. Do you think it would be less crazy Friday or Saturday night?

        Haven’t tried Purple Pig, but found that the other day and thought it looked interesting.

        The other places look great, but not available– this trip hasn’t been as planned out as much as I normally do!

        1. If you can’t make Frontera Grill, you can always do Xoco (the most casual and inexpensive of the three Bayless restaurants) for lunch. These are all great suggestions, though–hope you have a fabulous trip!

        2. The Purple Pig is my absolutely amazing. No reservations but if you get there before 6 the wait should be less than an hour and you can have a glass of wine or cocktails at the bar. Seriously really delicious. And try the braised pig’s tail (sounds gross, I know, but tastes like the most delicious pulled-pork you’ve ever had)!

    5. Mercat a la Planxa is close by and fun. Publican is outstanding. I would also put Avec on the list. A short cab ride south of the loop is Nightwood, which is a lot of fun, though it can get a little crowded later in the evening.

      So many good suggestions so far. You won’t go wrong.

      1. If you like the sound of Frontera but don’t want the crazy-long wait (expect at least 60 to 90 minutes on a weekend night), consider Topolobampo, its companion restaurant. It’s a little pricier but you can make a reservation and the room is quieter. The food is just as outstanding, if not more so.

        Other thoughts: the Gage is a fun, high-end pub on Michigan Avenue across from Millennium Park. And the Purple Pig, which others have mentioned, is great for late-afternoon drinks and snacks, especially if you’re doing some shopping along the Magnificent Mile. Roof, at the Wit Hotel, is one of the ‘it’ places these days and good people-watching territory. Also second the recommendations for Avec and Blackbird, though both are pretty loud rooms. If you want to venture out of the Loop, I recently ate at Ruxbin and thought it was terrific.

        Wherever you decide to go, I’d highly recommend making reservations in advance if you can. This is a foodie city and places book up–unless your group is very patient, you could find yourselves in for a frustrating wait at some of the popular spots. On the plus side, though, there are so many great restaurants here that you can’t really go wrong.

        Have a great trip!

    6. My favorite restaurant in Chicago is Vermillion, on Hubbard and State in the River North area. Very interesting and delicious Indian/Latin fusion and it’s usually not too hard to get a reservation. I always go there with a group of friends and everyone enjoys their time there.

  28. I’m starting a brand-spanking new job next month! ‘Tis a wonderful opportunity in the greatest city in the world (NYC), which I can only assume is a more-formal city than my current laid-back one on the West Coast. Any tips or suggestions for my first week, month, 90 days as far as wardrobe is concerned?

    1. If you are willing to share, what is your general industry/role, and what do you typically wear to work now? That will help with recommendations :)

      1. Industry is legal, I typically wear … mmmm.. normal boring office attire I suppose. Usually slacks with either a sweater or a button-down. I’d like to take the chance to liven up my wardrobe a bit, polish it somewhat while still staying pretty conservative. I hope that helps?

    3. It’s been a cold year and looks like it’ll continue to be a cold-ish spring. Make sure you have lots of layering options and a warm spring coat. And ppl here love their black.

    4. I’m from SoCal, have worked in law in NYC, gone to school on the East Coast, etc. Take my tips with a grain of salt. Free form list below:

      –I would say, in general, that West Coasters are freer with color than New Yorkers are. I got a lot of “my you dress brightly” only because my wardrobe was pretty West Coast, and I wasn’t afraid to wear a pink sweater or whatever.
      –Dress would really vary, but I think that certain brands are very overrepresented on East Coast (like BR), and it’s fine to keep your West Coast vibe, as long as it’s professional.
      –New Yorkers do more “day to night” dressing because it’s nearly inevitable that you will be meeting friends for drinks, so keep this in mind–outfits that can be transformed with a little jewelry or higher heels or cardigan removed
      –the humidity of NYC will do a number on your feet and which shoes you find comfortable–keep this in mind before you bring along shoes that pinch, rub, are peeptoe, etc. You will not have experienced this on the West Coast. Also, it’s pretty much a given that you will walk more in NYC, so don’t take towering heels unless you i) can walk in them a long way or ii) are fine with “switching out” shoes to ballet slippers or whatnot.
      –NYC people dress for summer in a different way that CA folks do. Less shorts, more sundresses/skirts, in general.
      –you may not expect this, being from the West Coast, but it can rain, hard, in NYC in the summer (thunderstorms when the heat breaks). Make sure to bring at least one purse-size umbrella and shoes you can wear to work if it’s raining (like patent leather).

      I found that twinsets were awesome in NYC in the summertime–the subway or outside is sweltering, inside you need something to take the chill off of AC. Also a big fan of shift dresses or short-sleeved blouses–it’s just so dang hot outside that you can’t wear much clothing.

      A lot of things that you just don’t see on the West Coast are in fashion in NYC, and vice versa. You don’t need to dress like East Coast folks…it’s OK. Also, nylons–depending on where you work, bare legs may not be OK. Take your cues from people your level or above on how to treat this.

      Closet space–it’s highly unlikely that you will have the same amount of closet space in NYC. So before you go, mercilessly edit your wardrobe. If something looks tired, or you don’t wear it often, don’t take it to NYC. You will be saddened by the space it takes up and how you can’t get to it anyway, because the stuff you wear needs to be more accessible.

      Now’s a great time to be shopping for off-season stuff you will need in NYC…boots and warms coats.

      Enjoy NYC–it’s such a great city when you’re in the mood for it. And when it’s time to “go home” to the West Coast, you’ll know.

      1. Thank you so much for these suggestions! I think I have a lot of work to do as far as editing the wardrobe goes, but am well-prepared in that I already wear a lot of black (some days I have trouble matching black to black and just end up wearing three different shades of grey, darker grey, and darkest grey, which is its own problem).

    5. Have lived and worked both in Orange County and LA and in Manhattan. I agree with all the comments about wardrobe. But please also spend time thinking about beauty and hair care.

      If you are moving in May, you will be just in time for my nemesis: summer in NYC! Humidity. That says it all. I grew up in southern California, and I literally called my father the first time we had a thunderstorm in July because I thought we were having an apocolypse. I had never seen rain when the temperature wasn’t 50 degrees or lower.

      The humidity is hideous, and it affects everything. Your hair will be a mess (either limp if it is straight and fine, or huge and messy if, like mine, it is curly). Keeping a hairdryer and tools/products at work is fine, but don’t expect the results to last if you plan on going outside. Makeup is also a problem: my skin was not only oily all the time from the humidity, but there is a lot of particulate matter in the air in NYC (bus grit etc.), and a lot of it ended up on my skin. Find a face powder/foundation/whatever that works for you with this in mind. Also, my cleansing routine was far more intense when I lived in NYC for this same reason. Oh, but you still have to wear sunscreen (face, neck, decolletage, arms, hands) because you will be walking a lot and exposed to the elements. Perfume also smells much more strongly in the summer; select and apply accordingly.

      And the shoe comment someone made? So true: mine fluctuate by a half-size at least with the heat and humidity. I refuse to wear pumps outside; it just ruins them, anyway.

      My other tips:
      (1) when crossing the street in the summer, don’t get too close to the cars because the heat from the engines is too hot.
      (2) if it is really hot, grab a piece of ice from a deli stand as you walk by and apply it to your wrists to cool down.
      (3) if you have to show up somewhere and you feel humidity-ied out, stop at the nearest fancy hotel and freshen up in the ladies room first.
      (4) if you have never experienced a garbage strike in August, be prepared for the smell.

      I know it sounds like I don’t heart NY. I DO heart NY. Museums. Libraries. The UN. Restaurants. Bookstores. You will have a wonderful experience.

      1. Having lived in NYC for two years, these tips are brilliant. (That’s why my hair looked better after I left…! – I never figured this out.) People really do wear one pair of shoes on the street and then change at the office, but don’t wear flip-flops — you *will* slip in the subway when it rains (there’s no traction on the floor in the stations), and the streets are pretty gross. Second the idea of wearing a shell of some kind and bringing a cardigan/blazer/jacket (depending on your office) — unlike in DC, for example, the subway platforms are not air-conditioned. But yes, it’s a great city!

        1. This reminds me of something my now-former husband (a native New Yorker) told me when I moved to NYC:

          If you see a puddle in the street/gutter/sidewalk and you can’t remember the last time it rained, WALK AROUND IT!

  29. INVITATION ETIQUETE QUESTION: Is it okay to send snail mail graduation party invitations to their work address?
    I have been working at a mid size firm for the last year while I finish law school. I have already accepted a salary position there after I graduate and pass the bar. I would like to invite the group that I work with closely and their spouses to my graduation party, but I don’t know anyones home address!

    Thanks in advance!!

    1. Can you get their home addresses from their assistants, office directory, or look them up on whitepages.com? If so, I think it’s a bit better. Maybe Mr. Maya and I are just particular, but when one gets an invitation for both at work, we view it as a work engagement (rather than a social one) and if we get invitations at home I think we tend to think of it as more of a social, friendly invitation. But maybe that’s just us.

    2. I have just left invitations to events on people’s desks before. no need to actually mail them. A paper invitation is rare enough – a lot of people just use evites.

    3. Just hand them out at work. I know anything that comes through the mail to my office is in a few hands before it reaches the recipient, so it makes a lot more sense just to hand out the invites directly or send an evite.

  30. Need some size guidance please! I have a 20% off coupon to Talbots good through tomorrow, but don’t have time to go to the store. How do their Petites’ sizes run? True to size or big? Thanks!

      1. I don’t know about this dress but most of their clothes are said to be cut for pears. So if you have bust or waist issues, you might want to order a couple of sizes especially since this is a sheath. I find their sizing runs a bit larger compared to Ann Taylor or Banana Republic in bottoms.

      2. They run big. I usually take a 4 (fuller skirts) – 6 (pencil skirts) in J.Crew skirts, but went with a 2P in an A-line Talbot’s skirt. FWIW, I am a hourglass/pear and have a terrible time finding dresses that are tailored enough for my waist at Talbots – I would say they would be vastly better for apple shapes.

  31. I have been watching the basketball games with my boyfriend. Now he is all upset because his team, Kentucky, lost. I really don’t understand why it is his team. He did not even go to Kentucky, and probably never will even be in that state. Now I have to stop and go console him, even though he never even plays basketball. He does not care much about anything but sports, and that is getting to be very tired. I would like to go to the Theater, and also have a nice dinner on Saturday nite, but instead, we got Chinese takeout and he is now just laying around on the couch. Why is it that we have to put up with men like this, because the alternative is no man at all. Isn’t there any more decent men out there who would treat us right?

    3. Ellen,

      I’m sorry Allan is treating you badly. Maybe you should reconsider the managing partner despite his BAD BREATH.

      Hugs,
      Janie

    4. I sad that the ‘Cats lost too……… but be careful Ellen, you don’t want the BBN after you!

    7. Can I just say that my (happily married) mother and father are named Ellen and Alan respectively. I have always found the troll to be even more hilarious because it is such an improbable name combination (and impossible to tell the difference between when someone calls for one of them!)…

  32. Back to the region/working environment/hours/pay issue:
    My situation is pretty unusual (I would think) compared to most who read this blog, so I’ll share. I graduated law school in 1994, married an airplane pilot (Air Force at time), worked as public defender in Southern coastal city until the children started to arrive. I inactivated my licenses (NC, SC, & DC) so I could be at home with the children full time since my husband’s schedule is so wacky. We wanted to provide them with stability, which has worked out very well for us. Two years ago we returned to my hometown, and last year I activated one license.

    Last October I unexpectedly got “the” call from a former mentor offering me a job working part-time in his office in one of the most rural counties in our state. There are two partners and I am the only associate. I work 9-2:30 M-F and he pays me $25/hr. He bills me at $150. The practice is an old-fashioned courthouse based practice. Any transaction that an individual has with the courthouse is fair game; real property, estates, criminal, competency, civil lit. Everyone knows everybody. This is not an exaggeration.

    The State Bar lists 13 lawyers belonging to the county bar association, and that includes two judges and one young man (a judge’s son) who recently moved to Charlotte. There is no lawyer under 50 years old living in the county (I live just over the county line).

    I love my life. I meet my children when they get off the school bus. I don’t make much but it’s okay. My husband makes plenty with his commercial airline job. The county is poor and by its standards I am doing fine (this ain’t New Yawk, ya’ll!!).

    1. I’m not that familiar with the private sector in general (I’ve always worked exclusively in public interest/government), but is that huge of a spread between what he pays you and what you bill typical?

      1. Thank you for asking this question because after I posted the above I realized that what I wrote is misleading. First, I do court-appointed work where the firm collects $75 per hour not $150. Second, many folks call or stop in for advice on an issue without signing a fee agreement, and that work often does not result in a fee being collected but is counted as good will. Third, one of the firm’s clients is the county tax collector and we handle the tax foreclosures, which are paid by flat fee and not by the hour.

        Steady law jobs are no more common here than they are in other places, and I am grateful that the partner has given me this opportunity to learn after being out of the profession this long. Upon research I learned that my pay averages out to be what an assistant DA would make in my county if I were working @40 hours/week. I am hoping that in a couple of years I will have built enough experience and contacts to open my own firm. So if I am being worked like a sharecropper I don’t really mind and consider it an investment in my future.

        None of this answers your question but I hope it fills in some gaps!

  33. I wrote on here a few months ago because I have an incredibly obnoxious neighbor. After several more months of complaining, I still have made little progress in getting the issue resolved. I live in a city with a lot of students, and most people move out to my part of town because it’s known for being quiet and family oriented.

    My neighbor plays loud hip hop/techno music at ear-splitting levels several times a day on the weekends. I am not home as much during the week so I am not sure what goes on then. I send in complaints several times a month. Management is aware of the problem, has heard his music, and agrees he is out of control. It seems like they’ve had multiple meetings with him and sent him many letters, so I am not sure why he has not been evicted.

    I am supposed to have a meeting with the property manager this week and am wondering what advice people might have. I really cannot continue to live like this and don’t think I should have to call the police weekly because his music is too loud. I am willing to move units, but I am not willing to pay for the move myself. Any suggestions of solutions I can bring up? I think eviction is the obvious one, but they seem reluctant to do that.

    1. I can’t think of solutions otehr than him moving or you moving – but don’t be shy about asking the management to pay for your move. Also, wouldn’t hurt to research in advance what your legal rights are. it may be that you have the right to withhold rent and put it in escrow until this problem is resolved.

      1. Agree with Cat Lady. – if they won’t start the process to force him to move, tell them you will expect them to pay for the costs of your move because you cannot continue to live like this (and they are probably in direct violation of your lease by letting this kind of nonsense continue). Basically, make them see they have two options – force him out or lose a good a tenant (you).

    2. Two things to remember:

      Eviction proceedings take months. In my state it can be like 6 months to get someone kicked out. So they may have already started…

      And why not call the police? If it’s every day, then your landlord should know about it every damn day. And if they don’t do anything, then call the police every day.

      Sure, you *shouldn’t* have to do that. But nothing else has really worked, so maybe that will.

      1. Good point about the eviction timeframe. I am not really that familiar with landlord-tenant law in my state, but I know it is very tenant friendly. I know the landlord has tried everything from bringing a regional manager in to speak with him to calling the police and he just does not care. I have been much more vigilant about my complaints. Since they sent out their last letter Saturday morning, he played his music four times, twice after 11pm.

      2. Agreed. Call the cops and the landlord every single time it happens. And in the meantime, start looking into moving.

        1. Also, keep a log of each time you complain, the calls to the cops, as well as the times the noise is less but by no means quiet.

  34. Hi all! Not sure if this is too late to get a response tonight, but I’ll repost tomorrow morning if it is…

    Later this week I’m attending a conference and going on a tour of the White House. Wahoo! What would you wear? My current plan is a pantsuit with pumps, but would that be too formal? The tour is is the early morning and the actual conference doesn’t start until that afternoon. Could I get by on a step-below-business-formal? I’m asking mainly because I saw today that purses and bags aren’t allowed, which blows my plan of changing from commuting shoes to business shoes when I get there. So, I’m trying to see if I can work around my most comfortable pair of heels and wear a very nice pair of slacks and sweater. Or should I just grit my teeth and bear it? :-) Thanks in advance!!

    1. I think a full suit would be a little too formal … your step-below-business-formal idea sounds good to me!

    2. Is the tour a private tour or just a standard White House tour? If it is a standard show and tell, you might find yourself surrounded by tourists dressed in shorts or goodness knows what else. I would dress well, but not too formal. Actually, if this is the standard tour that is set up for conferences, I am sure you can get away with slacks and sweater.

    3. At the White House tour, it’s self-led and you’ll be in a group of tourists, many in sneakers and t-shirts (unless of course you have some sort of private tour arranged – this describes the standard tour). It only takes about half an hour. You’re right that you can’t bring in any personal items, so you’ll have to leave your belongings at your hotel or conference center and return for them after the tour. If you’re going to be with fellow conference attendees at the White House tour, I’d dress business casual, with comfort being key as you may have to walk a bit. Head back and change into your suit for the conference.

      Have fun!

    4. I’ve given this tour many times and have seen people dressed in all sorts of ways – tennis shoes/shorts, formal business attire, business casual, and even folks’ Sunday best. I suggest you wear comfortable shoes since there’s a fair amount of walking.

      Be sure to ask the Secret Service agents in each room about the history of the room and what’s the latest event that happened there. They know lots. Enjoy!

  35. What industry are you in? I’m asking because my work is interdisciplinary and when I attend one group’s conferences, everyone is in a suit. But when I attend another group’s conference, it wouldn’t be shocking to see Birkenstocks with socks…..

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