34 Comments

  2. you know, i saw that a while back — never seemed like a good idea to put something shiny and sparkly just at the point where you DON’T want people to look, but maybe that’s just me.

    just gave some folks interviewing advice for OCI week on campus — anyone have any tips to share?

  3. I had a fashion problem today and immediately thought of all of you.

    I had to attend a hearing today in a county 1.5 hours away. I drove up there. I smartly hung my jacket on a hangar on the doohickey in the back seat. So, it was all nice when I got to the courthouse. However, I looked down and my skirt was all wrinkled. Now, I probably should not have worn linen. But, 1) it’s summer and 2) i like natural fibers. Any ideas for how to keep from wrinkling up on the way TO court. Other than living right across the street from the courthouse.

    Thanks.

  4. I have a question about decorating my office. I’m a midlevel associate at large law firm in S. California. Dress is business casual. I recently was honored by a local city for my work with a bar association. I got a nice document with a city seal that I plan on framing for my office.

    Since I’m in a framing mindset, I’m also considering framing the 3 bar association magazine covers I’ve appeared on. I hesitate because 1) it seems vain to have multiple pictures of myself on my walls and 2) I can’t think of other attorneys that have something similar in their offices. On the other hand, I am mindful that women often lose out because they don’t like to promote themselves. Also, I’m currently working part-time (I have 2 small kids), so any reminder to the partners that I’m a valuable employee has to be good.

    So yes or no on the magazine covers?

    1. Congratulations!

      One of the senior partners at my firm has framed magazine covers of himself, plus a display case with books opened to pages that reference him and his work.

      I think you should frame your magazine covers and the city honor, because really, if you don’t toot your own horn, who will?

    2. I say yes to the magazine covers, if you want to be subtle you can put them in a tryptych-type frame rather than individual ones, may be a bit less overwhelming. BTW, 3 covers? Congratulations, very impressive!

    3. Definitely yes on the magazine covers. It’s called an “I love me” wall for a reason – if you love you, then it is easier for the rest of the firm to love you. Any one who is critical or thinks it is vain is just jealous.

      (Funny how that happens, isn’t it? First women are alleged to be unable to promote themselves and then we get accused of self-aggrandizing. I have never heard a man criticized because he had too many deal toys or his “SuperLawyers” certificate or Martindale rating on the wall.)

      Just make sure that the framing is done is a class way with a nice matting and a frame that coordinates with anything else you have hanging on your wall. Michael’s usually has coupons on-line for 20-50% off on custom framing.

    4. Azure: I don’t know that I’d put them on the wall. Can you have the 3 issues of the magazines on a side-table? Don’t hide your achievements but the trio on the wall may be a bit much. Maybe just your best/favorite cover on the wall and the others framed on a side table?

  5. eplawyer, other than changing in the bathroom of a local fast food joint (been there done that, because you don’t know who you’ll run into while changing in the courthouse restroom), I’m thinking either arrive wrinkled or different fabric. Love to know if others have possible solutions, though.

    Azure, my vote is go ahead and frame them if they’re recent. A decade or older, not so much….? Love to hear about what you ultimately decide.

  6. @eplawyer – while not foolproof, hike up your skirt a little once you’re safely in the car. Provides some extra room across your hips so the fabric isn’t stretched so tightly => wrinkles are lessened. I’ve noticed men doing this all the time before sitting… I suspect for different purposes though!

    @Azure – most people do not have such things on their walls because most people aren’t pictured in articles or covers! Congrats on the achievement. Points that would be for framing/displaying: you won an award or are otherwise recognized as an example (as opposed to being “stock footage” of a female attorney); at least one cover is recent (spaced over years – shows longevity; spaced close together – rising star, good for business), and if you’re still uncertain, that you have a less-obvious place in your office to prop them up initially (top of the bookshelf that doesn’t face the door?).

  7. Azure, I wouldn’t recommend framing magazine covers with photos of you. I think it would look tacky. I would recommend promoting this by making sure it’s on your firm bio, though, and of course when these magazines were published circulating copies to everyone at your firm or otherwise announcing it. I would be interested to hear what others think, but IMO this would be tacky and could come across as arrogant, esp for a midlevel associate.

  8. eplawyer, I’m crazy enough about wrinkles to do something like wear a voluminous a-line/stretchy skirt in cotton and try to shimmy into my suit skirt under cover of said “travel skirt” while in the parking lot in my car. Failing that, yes, stop at a Starbucks or something to change.

    Also, I have found that ironing linen a second time WITH light spray starch makes a huge difference in how easily it wrinkles. After the first pass of the iron (or after getting the item back from the drycleaners), iron with light starch. Just “brush” off any starch flakes with your hand as you iron.

    Or, accept wrinkles (which I would have trouble doing, too) as a part of the linen “look.” For what it is worth, I find that black and dark brown linen “show” wrinkles less than tan linen does.

    Finally, and I realize this isn’t exactly what you asked, try cotton seersucker. It seems to hold its shape better and to wrinkle less than linen. If you don’t love the blue/white stripe from Brooks Bros. (which I do like, on men or women), BR, AT Loft, and similar often do tan/white, black/white, or gray/white SS in the summer, which can look like solid tan or gray from afar. Talbots sells interesting cotton basketweave and pique suits and jackets that don’t tend to wrinkle too much.

  9. The next suit may be seersucker. the suit was aqua, so the wrinkles really showed.

    Azure, frame them. It’s proof of your recogntion as a fine lawyer.

  10. To Azure: go ahead and hang them! I worked with a guy who had a courtroom artist’s drawing of himself at an argument framed and hanging in his office. It looked great.

  11. I just ordered the ruffle jacket TPS featured a few days ago. I am so excited.

  13. I agree: Azure, frame them. But perhaps hang them behind your door, so they’re not seen when the door is open, only when someone is with you in your office and the door is closed. You want to have your recognition available to be seen, but you don’t want horns blaring and arrows pointing in order to draw attention to it. Like fashion: Classy but quiet.

  14. @eplawyer, I think your question is great because I worried about the same thing when I had to drive to a job interview that’s 30 mins away.

    This sounds crazy, but I have a suit that I wear often that wrinkles at the back of the skirt often. I have used SCOTCH MAGIC TAPE down and across the pleat in the back. I drove in the car. When I reached my destination, while still sitting in my car, I twisted the skirt so that the back is in the front. I then peeled off all the tape, and then twisted the skirt again. Result was minimal wrinkles. The scotch tape helped to make the skirt more resistant to wrinkles while sitting! I don’t do this often because I don’t care that much about a wrinkle-free skirt in the office on a daily basis, but for an interview or court appearance, I would try it again. And the scotch tape did not harm my $100+ wool skirt since I used the weakly-sticky kind of tape, i.e., the kind that is opaque and you can write on it. See Scotch® Magic™ Tape: http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2008/141/3/1211273979-24885_full.jpg

  15. Here is a method from my time in China: when you are featured on a magazine, have a family member or close friend frame a copy then give it to you as a gift. If anyone comments in a negative tone, then you can simply reply “my husband/best friend/mother was so proud of me that s/he had it framed as a gift” – then you are not only showing an example of how said questioner should react to your accomplishments (with pride for the company/firm), but you can also humbly attribute the framing to filial piety or friendship.

    ‘

  16. I’ve turned my skirt backwards (so you sit on the front) and then flipped it around when I arrived. Seemed to help a lot.
    Azure: frame them. But there are companies that will do them so they are all on a wood background with a plaque with the publication, the month and year. I’ve worked with many attorneys who had a company do them so they’re all consistent and they look very professional. Pricey, but worth it I think.

  17. Azure:

    Congratulations! Frame them and display them prominently. Men certainely never hesitate to toot their own horn and neither should we.

  18. Azure, I think you should frame them (you don’t see this a lot b/c most mid-level associates haven’t been honored in this way). However, consider Jane’s suggestion that you put them behind your door so that they aren’t visible when you’re on the outside of your office. And I’d definitely subtly let the partners that I work with know about this recognition if they don’t already know. You’re right that so many female associates do not toot their own horn and are thus “left behind.” Particularly since you’re a part-time working mom, you should do all you can to promote yourself and ensure that you get what you deserve. Congratulations on your accomplishments!!!

  19. My boss decided to declare August casual month in our office (unless, of course, you have client interaction or a court appearance in which case you should wear a business suit). Most lawyers in the office were ecstatic to hear they could dress down, but I was not so moved. I face the dilemma of not having office-appropriate casual clothing and, since this dress code is only for one month at the end of summer, I’m not sure I want to go out and splurge on a bunch of expensive casual summer clothing. First question: in your view, what constitutes “office-appropriate casual clothing”? Second question: any suggestions on items I could buy that would fit the casual bill, but that could be worn in fall as well?

    1. JD Mama – First off, if you’re not interested in going along with the casual wear, then don’t. I would stick with whatever you are comfortable in. That said, if you are interested casual options, I would stick to polished looks like khaki’s and chinos with light weight sweaters or button downs. Gap and J Crew both have fantastic lines of of pants that can easily transistion from professional to casual. I would also recommend staying cotton fabrics, as they will transition nicely from summer to fall. If you do have to buy pieces go for neutral that you can jazz up with accessories. Hope this helps!

    2. JD Mama – I completely see your point in not being so thrilled. It’s hard enough to get the office fashion rules straight, and then this. Maybe two or three not-too-summery dresses that you can put a jacket over come September?

    3. Check out Loft- usually the clothing is fairly inexpensive and you should be able to find some clothes that will transition well into fall. There are so many sales there that you can easily pick up several outfits for $200 or less.

  20. As for the magazine covers, it’s definitely common in my office to have them framed on wood with a little plaque stating the publication and month/year. Kudos to you for the accomplishment. I do like the suggestion of having someone frame it for you so you can say, oh thanks my husband had that framed for me as a gift.

    No one has really mentioned OCI. I was very lucky in undergrad to have a career services department dedicated solely to my major. One thing they really stressed was the importance of mock interview. Not just once, but repeatedly. It was probably the most valuable interview prep I’ve ever done and I definitely took advantage of the mock interviews offered by my law school career services. We even had alumni who would do it on their lunch break if you couldn’t make the interview nights on campus. In this economy, you can’t get enough advice. Of course take it with a grain of salt but if you’ve had a mock interview where you didn’t particularly gel with the interviewer, it will be far less distressing if it happens when it’s the real thing. Also, we know that in this economy everyone is desperate for a job and that most people will take anything that pays the bills, but try to convey to your interviewer why you want to work at their company in particular.

  21. A quick question for you ladies- I am a finishing my PhD, with hopes of going into industry. I’m assuming that for my interviews I will want to err on the side of conservatism and wear a skirt suit (although I think the culture is pretty casual). My question is where should the jacket hit length wise? It seems more contemporary suits (BR, Jcrew) are cropped shorter- like above the hips.

    1. Jen, first, find something appropriate for your figure type i.e. chesty women and curvy women don’t look great in short jackets. That type of figure needs a longer, leaner line, not something that chops you in half. If you have a slim figure, a short jacket is great as long as it is balanced with a longer, slim-fit skirt. Short jackets also look good with an a-line skirt but again, if you have minimal fabric on top, go for more on the bottom. A cropped jacket and mid-thigh skirt looks like a leftover from Ally McBeal. Fashion may be touting a certain length this season, but the fact of the matter is, a suit that looks good on your figure will look good no matter what “fashion” is saying.

  22. The fashion industry is constantly raising and lower hems on skirts and jackets because they want to sell us more stuff. Above-the-hips jackets will look dated before too long, just as low-rise pants are being to. So, you might want to go a bit longer for your jacket. You’ll get more wear out of it, and perhaps feel a bit more confident during the interviews, which are demanding enough, without that niggle of uncertainty about your clothes.

  23. Frame the magazine covers! I have one of my cases (resulted in a published appeal before 9th Circuit) frames on my wall! I dont think its tacky or aggrandizing.

  24. @Jen–if you decide you want something longer, in my experience the J. Crew two-button jackets hit below the hip. Or at least they do on my 5’3″ frame.

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