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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Wide-Leg Studio Refined Crepe Pant

A woman wearing a black long sleeve top with gray houndstooth blazer and purple wide leg pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I cannot get enough of this gorgeous berry color, and these wide-leg trousers from Torrid are the perfect way to incorporate one of my favorite hues of the season. I would really lean into the autumnal vibe and pair these with camel or chocolate shades, but you could also choose a lighter pinkish color for a monochromatic look. 

If the berry color isn’t your vibe, these also come in a gorgeous “botanical garden” green and basic black. 

The pants are $79.90 at Torrid and come in sizes 10-30 and in short, regular, and tall inseams. 

Sales of note for 12.5

641 Comments

  1. Good morning!
    Let’s start a lighthearted thread:
    What’s something good that’s happened in your life recently? Mine is that my parents are getting along better.

    1. We’ve had the most beautiful fall in the Upper Midwest – mild weather, a long-extended spell of sunshine, warmer than normal temps, and the colors have been breathtaking. Looking at my neighbor’s lawn, which is covered with a carpet of leaves that are mainly golden. It’s made me so happy that my favorite season has lasted longer than a hot minute this year.

      1. Agreed, not in the Upper Midwest but we’ve had a beautiful fall as well.

        I’ve been having a tough time creatively the last couple of months, but I think I’m turning the corner and am really excited about my new project.

      2. I never appreciated how much time in my grown up life I would spend troubleshooting my Roomba.

    4. I’ve been doing barre classes for a year and they have really added to my life. Not only am I the strongest I’ve been in years, I have found a lovely sense of community in my studio. There women there are diverse in age, body size, race/ethnicity. I always feel good when I go to a class. It’s been one of the best things I’ve done for myself.

    5. Thanks to an attentive, thorough midwife (part of a mixed OB and midwife group), my preeclampsia was diagnosed early and we have (knock on wood) seemed to avoid bad outcomes. My baby is doing great and my bloodwork is back to normal. It’s one of the first times I’ve ever felt that a provider has taken a complaint seriously. It was an atypical presentation and would’ve been easy to blow off.

      1. OP, I’m happy to hear that. I also had PE and am forever thankful for the NP who noticed I was out of breath at a regular check up (it was August, and I was in my third trimester, so I figured it was just par for the course) and sent me to the hospital, where they almost turned me away because my BP was fine, but then did a blood draw and suddenly I was being moved to the high-risk OB wing. It was a little scary but we both we totally fine and my toddler is very healthy now.

      3. Congratulations! Today is our kitties’ fourth adoptiversary and we have enjoyed them so much!

    8. Went kayaking with my friend on our local lake when it was so warm here this week. There were fall leaf colors and it was sunny.

    9. I’ve been meal planning to make space in my little freezer and things are looking less chaotic.

        1. what do you have lying around in there?
          I had some tomatoes frozen from summer, they became soup. Some ravioli were easy comforting dinner on Tuesday. Some ham from a Costco sized package came out and went on bagels several mornings until it was used up.
          I usually do weekly grocery shopping, so before that, I look at my freezer and identify 2-3 things that I want to incorporate this week. So for example last week I decided to use up the tortellini, so I made sure to buy an onion and some mushrooms to go with that.
          Now I’m deciding how I’m going to use that tofu next week.

    10. We served more or less unlimited dessert last night and the kids were delighted.

    11. A publishing editor liked my book. I’ll find out this month if they’re going to make me an offer.

    12. My husband and I took the plunge and moved to a gorgeous 3-story townhome “penthouse” in Boulder and the view/scenery is just lovely this time of year. It feels like a big upgrade from our old place and I can’t wait to entertain in this pretty new place!

      1. You’re going to have some great snowy views the next few days! I live in Jeffco 👋🏻, and I’m really happy I had my snow tires put on this week. I happily and safely went out this morning, including getting coffee, and it was fun to drive in the snow.

        1. Yes it’s so cute/fun/delightful for the first…eh, 6-10 days, right? Then it’s less fun after Christmas heh.

    13. After 15 years of ever-worsening depression, 10 years of medication, and 2 years with a psychiatrist who specializes in unusual cases, we’re very, very close to finding my holy grail medication cocktail. (Four different meds primarily intended to treat a psych condition I’ve never had 🤷🏻‍♀️)

      1. Oh, I just want to add this anecdote. When I went to the pharmacy to pick up my meds this week, the pharmacist apologized for a homeless man in line who had been chatting with me. He had been polite and friendly and we chatted about our mutual home state. I said, “Absolutely not. There but for the grace of God go I. With my mental health, it could be me.” I don’t know how he ended up homeless, but I know my loving family, education, wealth (my specialist is $255 out of pocket 2-4x per month) allow me to be where I am in life.

      2. Blessings from this internet stranger. That sounds like a hard process and a promising place to be!

    16. My husband has had some mobility challenges on our last few vacations (mostly a hard time with stairs due to an old cycling injury) and he has been working hard in the gym to overcome it. He did GREAT on the three-week trip we just finished and I’m really proud of him.

    17. I moved recently and was very sad about leaving the community at the gym where I last lived. I found a gym this week with the same community feel as my last one and I am so excited to get back into regular workouts!

    18. I got a new job that will be a very substantial increase in pay and benefits, more stability, an easier commute, and in some respects, fewer responsibilities. I am also due to receive a bonus at my current job.

  2. If you voted for Trump in this election, can you explain why? I promise I won’t make any snide remarks or judgements. I really want to understand why people voted for him.

    1. Not a voter (overseas reader), but a lot of my family in California voted Trump as an individualised f-you to the Democratic permissiveness of crime and breakdown of social order – look at Senior Attorney’s comments yesterday expressing anguish over the incarcerated and not the victims of crime. It wasn’t until I saw these comments that it finally clicked into place. It might be similar single issues (crime, economics, immigration) or just frustration with the progressive movement’s priorities and it just became easy to look at the other fork of the road for deliverance. Fwiw, we saw that with Brexit (Remain/the EU was a timely punching bag for all the issues with the economy/immigration/law and justice/healthcare) and it’s only dawning on the Leavers how deeply wrong they were.

      1. +1 – have a family member who was murdered in a gang-related crime (was not in the gang, was caught in cross-fire), and ever since, that branch of the family has been deep red. I am not, but I understand the grief driving the votes.

        The Dems used to be really loud proponents of victim services like state-covered therapy for surviving spouses and kids and coverage of funeral costs and social workers to help with the hell that is navigating a criminal prosecution as an impacted person. Those things are, I think, still generally in line with their platform, but the platform messaging is loudly sympathetic to those who commit crimes and are incarcerated and quietly sympathetic to the victims. The Republicans are loudly antagonistic to those who commit crimes and at least pay medium volume lip service to crime victims.

        1. Thanks everyone sharing these perspectives.

          It brought back a memory I had tucked away. A couple years ago, someone broke into my apartment when I wasn’t home and stole my Mother’s jewelry. She had just died – too young. It was not very valuable, but it was deeply personal. It really hurt.

          Soon after, I met up with a close older and treasured friend. I told him what had just happened. He just shook his head and said…”Isn’t it terrible that people are struggling so much that they need to resort to this to survive?”

          What could I say to that? Nothing more about me and my dead mother and broken heart.

          1. Oh, I am so sorry. Being burglarized is traumatic and losing possessions with sentimental value is even worse.

      2. I’m a Harris voter and will never vote for Trump. But I visited California for my cousin’s wedding, and it did give me pause about whether leftist policies are good for quality of life. She got married in Santa Monica, and the beach paths along the coast were filled with homeless, mentally ill men. Some of them were so menacing that I stopped my walk short and headed back to the hotel. I watched a man urinate on a water fountain. Despite the sunshine and beauty, it felt dystopian. A day after we left, a man was attacked with a machete near the Santa Monica pier while he was enjoying a beach day with his family, and if I recall correctly he lost an eye. I can see how law abiding tax payers would feel like they are being put dead last.

        1. Well, to be fair, I’m not sure it’s the leftist policies that are leading to the unsavory things you witnessed. I worked in real estate development in Southern California for a while, and I can tell you that the crazy increases in rents and evictions do not come from the leftist policies, because I could see how the sausage gets made, with the collaboration of lenders, developers, and private equity interests. But you are right that people might prefer not to see the results. Non-leftist approaches to that woudl include busing the homeless to less picturesque areas, incarcerating them, or storing them in other types of institutions.

          1. Indeed. Leftist solutions would include actually providing housing to people. And if I was expressing concern for the incarcerated yesterday, it’s because that was what was being discussed. In my view the best approach to crime is to concentrate much more on robust victim services and less on the punitive criminal “justice” system, which all too often makes things worse for the victims.

          2. We need to look at fentanyl as one part of this problem.

            The widening gap between the haves and the have-nots primarily, though. And that has a lot to do with tax policy, which is only going to get worse under the new administration.

          3. Yes, it’s not “leftist” policies that cause this. “Leftists” would advocate for better mental health treatment for veterans, rehabilitation for addicts, and providing housing (there are numerous studies showing that a proven fix is providing supportive housing first). We know how Trump feels about veterans, and lax regulation/enforcement (a core republican value) leads to situations like Purdue aggressively peddling oxycodone (aka heroin) knowing how addictive it is solely to make themselves rich. And sorry but opioid addiction f*ed an entire generation of people and we’re seeing the effects today. Don’t blame leftists for not wanting to fix these problems by throwing everyone into jail. I don’t know what the solution is but further damage by our horrible prison systems/lining the pockets of private prison CEOs aint it.

          4. The broader issue here is the lack of enforcement and policies that fail to hold criminals accountable. California’s uptick in crime can largely be traced back to laws that reduce the consequences for criminal behavior, creating an environment where offenders aren’t deterred. We just passed prop 36 to increase penalties for certain theft and drug crimes. It passed with 70% voting yes because we’re fed up.

            On homelessness, California has spent billions, yet the crisis has only deepened. Open-air drug markets and crime are pervasive, particularly in cities like San Francisco and Oakland, where lenient policies have allowed these issues to thrive.

            I used to love going to Oakland with friends. Now I avoid it like the plague and I am not in the minority.

            Visit San Francisco on a day when Xi Jinping isn’t visiting and step over the zombies and hope you don’t get your throat cut (that actually just happened on BART).

            For an extreme example of this path, just look at Portland, where similar policies have led to rampant homelessness and lawlessness.

        2. Very much this. I live in San Francisco and a lot of democrat/progressive policy are very nice academic ideas that do not work in the real world.

          1. Yes…. I truly understand the logic of legalizing drugs to decrease the violence and danger associated, but I still don’t think it is practically a good idea.

          2. I do think the small, non-profits are successful in getting people into housing and treatment over time. I just read an LA Times article where street teams of social workers/psychiatrists are delivering injected antipsychotics on the street and having success in very slowly stabilizing decades long unhoused people. To me, I think the problem is that it’s a drop in the bucket right now. There are policies that do work but we don’t have enough housing for everyone, so there’s no visible effect. I am pretty Lefty and support Newsom’s involuntary treatment plan, to at least let social services have that option.

        3. I am in Florida and we have homeless people living in tents. And sometimes they are rounded up and put in jail. Being a red state does NOT end homelessness and poverty. It just makes the poors into criminals. Also, a young man opened fire and killed two people and injured nine here over Halloween. In my red state.

          1. Honestly, everyone loves to point their fingers at California, but this level of permanent outdoor living can only happen in a handful of states in the US due to climate.

        4. Thank you all for the explanations. I think you’re right. Unfortunately, immediate emotional reaction as in CA was not very logical or generous.

        5. As a SoCal resident, I really don’t think homelessness is about leftist policies. We have a housing crisis stemming from global income inequality, underbuilding for decades after the 2008 crisis, etc. The visible homeless population is likely driven by mental illness. Often addiction is driven by mental illness rather than addiction by itself. This goes back to 70/80s policies to release people from mental hospitals, and Republicans in the 80s cutting the community based programs that were supposed to assist them. Also other states literally bus their longterm unhoused people out to California, or long term unhoused people choose to come here because of survivable weather outside. California and major cities tend to carry the homeless burden of other places. Rural homelessness exists but is untracked, more nomadic and hidden (in an old trailer/shack on someone’s property, in a cheap rental or a sketchy motel on the outskirts of town). There are kids in your rural schools who disappear midyear as their family moves around and no one is particularly helping them.

          If you drive people out of city centers with legal policies, they go to rough camping in open lands, which is a fire risk in California and Colorado, etc. Gavin Newsom is actually pretty moderate/conservative and supportive of involuntary mental health treatment but he does favor less incarceration overall.

          After my spiel, I do think it’s all incredibly complicated and helping long-term unhoused people with mental illness and addictions is very difficult.

        6. LB, where do you live? Is it in a place where billions upon billions have been poured into the problem without any relief?

          A ton of that money goes toward administrative costs and cushy contracts. Many nonprofits tasked with addressing homelessness are incentivized to keep funds flowing, as it sustains their programs and jobs. This structure can lead to a cycle where real, lasting solutions aren’t prioritized.

          My family member works for the city of San Francisco and with some of their shelters in particular. The Coalition on Homlessness acts like the mob to protect these people and their revenue stream. They have an abudance of money and protection not afforded to hardworking tax payers.

        7. Homelessness isn’t just a result of drug use or mental health. It’s a result of wages not keeping up with rising costs, including housing. You don’t see the homeless who are sleeping in cars or on couches or some other temporary living. That is also homelessness but not on a street. This is largely cause by corporate greed. “Leftists” want people to be paid a fair wage which means corporations will have less profit. It will cut down the billionaire class, but we’re fine with that.

    2. Also not me, but I have a variety of family members/acquaintances who did (all young women ages 18-40, not angry young men…nieces, etc). Their main issue was abortion. They truly believe it is a grave evil.

      I know that view is not shared by most here, and the younger ones def don’t have the life experience to really make sense of it, IMO. I was similar in my younger years, and have grown. But this is why blanket statements of “well they hate woman and have internalized misogyny” are not helpful. They are frustrating to people with sincerely held beliefs and cause them to dig in their heels. They are not voting to intentionally screw anyone, though you and I certainly see that in the downstream consequences of the vote! As desperately as many of us want to restore and protect reproductive rights, there are others who believe it is loving and protective to ban abortion.

      (And yes, I get the sad irony in voting for this “pro-life” cause when the candidate is so anti-life across the board. But I’m answering the question. And don’t come at me, I voted D for sure!)

      1. I also know people like this. I strongly disagree with them for many reasons, starting with the fact that Republicans are doing essentially nothing to be pro-life after children are born or to make abortion less common, but these are good people that just have a different belief about when life begins. They truly think that abortions are murder and can’t support politicians advocating for murder. To simplify their beliefs as hating women makes them even less likely to be open to ever voting for a Democrat, even if they might actually be inclined to do so as they also find people like Donald Trump repellent.

        1. Stuff like this is driving me crazy. It’s not good and does not make you a good person to vote for more abortion restrictions. If you take one second to unpack it you realize it’s about controlling women and not actually about life. Otherwise they would spend the time advocating for more sex education and resources for mothers and social safety nets and argue against the death penalty. You can absolutely think abortion is wrong and decide to never have one in your personal life. But when women are bleeding out because you tried to make that into law and they don’t care about the dying women, it’s clear it was never about “life”

        2. What I don’t understand is how they can be OK with mothers dying after miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies. The cognitive dissonance blows me away and I can’t see them as anything other than massive hypocrites. How can you call yourself pro-life with a straight face when learning of those scenarios? How can the rest of us see that as anything other than being totally OK with women losing their lives?

          1. They view those cases as medical malpractice that should result in a lawsuit. I’m not kidding. If you read conservative coverage of the cases ProPublica has highlighted, it almost always contains a surgeon describing the case as “clear malpractice” or a “deviation from standard medical care.” Heck, I think even the ProPublica piece contains that language.

            So if you view those cases as medmal, then the individual doctors, not the law, are the problem, and the law doesn’t need to be changed.

            (I personally think those cases are medmal AND the law needs to be changed because it currently incentivizes medmal. But they aren’t “fine with women dying”, they just situate the blame for that death on the individual care providers rather than the system).

          2. They don’t realize mothers are losing their lives. It is a big talking point that “no one is banning miscarriage treatment” and that it’s separate from abortion. If you don’t know anyone personally, it can feel like a scare tactic pushed by Dems that women are dying. (I realize stories are out there, they shouldn’t just believe what they are told, etc). But they aren’t actively rooting for mothers to die; they think it won’t happen because it clearly is different than an elective “abortion”

          3. That’s what I mean when I say that there might actually be room to convince some of these people with what’s happening now… but not when there’s just a bunch of screaming about how anyone who doesn’t like abortion hates women. Many of these people are old and have spent their entire lives hearing that abortion is a moral evil and voting the way their church tells them to vote because they thought that was the right thing to do.

            Nobody is ever going to have their mind changed by someone who tells them that they’re a terrible person, only by someone who can convince them that they’re a good person who should make a different decision.

          4. OMG. The deviation from standard medical care is caused by the laws prohibiting the provision of standard medical care.

        3. One thing I’d like to ask the anti-abortion people is why they are okay with the government having control over women’s bodies. If you concede that the government can control what you do with your body, what’s to stop it from going the other way and forcing certain women NOT to have children? It happened in China. Even in the US, not that long ago, women were sterilized without their consent.

          Also, why aren’t they in favor of mandatory organ donation or mandatory blood donation? Lots of people, including babies, die from lack of organs or blood, and it’s pretty easy to donate blood, and pretty easy to donate an organ after you are dead, so why aren’t these part of the “pro-life” agenda? Should a man who fathered a child be able to let that child die because he doesn’t want to donate a bit of his liver, or even some blood or bone marrow? Because right now he can.

          People always think it’s great when the government controls other people, but . In Afghanistan the Taliban has basically legislated women out of public life, so now they are going after the men, policing what sort of clothes they wear, what sort of facial hair they should have…

          1. They believe the child has the same right to life, and so by performing abortion you are controlling the baby’s body aka killing it. And it’s similar to the other examples you mention, but in the opposite way — you can’t kill a person even if the death would benefit another person, unless it’s “self-defense” (life of the mother). There’s really not a good analogy because bone marrow and organs are not separate human beings; it becomes thorny because there are two separate lives in the balance when someone is pregnant.

            And yes, a parent doesn’t have to donate their organ to their child. That is different than actively ending their life (the anti-abortion POV).

          2. Yes, I think the whole argument over personhood and fetus vs. baby and when life begins is a red herring that cedes far too much ground.

          3. I am prolife, and I would be willing to answer for myself – obviously not all pro life people hold the same position for the same reason

            In my experience and from talking with people who are pro choice 99% of the difference in opinion is about whether or not you believe a fetus is an individual living person with human rights (ie, most pro choice people wouldn’t extend their reasoning to a 1 year old kid). I believe a fetus is a human person, so I am not ok with killing the kid because the parents don’t feel ready, financial reasons, are unequipped to raise a child with a disability, etc — most pro choice people would say the same about a 1 year old).

            Specific to forced organ donation example — to me, again, the difference is that the child has their own body, and abortion procedures directly impact the child’s body, not just the mother’s. That’s a rare situation, where two individual’s bodies are inextricably intertwined – a closer analogy than blood transfusion might be conjoined twins. If one twin wants to be separated and the other does not, who’s right to bodily autonomy takes precedence? I would argue that forced medical intervention is ethically unacceptable, and therefore: abortion is unacceptable (for what it’s worth, I would also argue that women cannot be forced to accept medical interventions to /protect/ their fetus as well), forced blood donation is unacceptable, and forced separation surgery is also unacceptable. (Here is where a genuine philosophical difference might come in to play: I am not a utilitarian. If you were, you might eg. allow forced blood donation if it saved a large number of lives)

            On the question of greater social support for families – I’m 100% in on this, and wish the US political system didn’t make it so hard to vote for pro life policies both before and after birth!

            I genuinely considered voting for Harris. But the emphasis she put on pro abortion rights seemed like there would be no room in her world for pro life democrats. In the end, I chose a third party.

          4. I am also pro-life and agree with the points above. However, I am “womb to tomb” and on balance believe Kamala had views most supportive of every stage of life, so I voted for her. I also don’t believe legislation is the way to end abortion (as we are seeing rising rates!) Protecting the life of the criminal on death row, providing healthcare to the impoverished, and treating immigrants with dignity (even if we can’t let them stay) are absolutely as important as protecting unborn lives. Until Rs stop the death penalty, they’ve lost me with hypocrisy (and Dems aren’t much better on that score). I wish we could go back to the “safe, legal and rare” messaging, though…

          5. And to me, it is far worse to willingly let a born child die because you are too squeamish or lazy to donate blood (which is much easier than pregnancy!) than to end the “life” of a being that can’t exist on its own.

            Why are women required to donate their whole bodies to another life but no one else is even required to donate blood? The result is the same – dead children.

            BTW, although I disagree with making abortion illegal, I have respect for the “womb to tomb” person who is also against the death penalty and understands that “pro-life” should also include policies to help the born.

      2. I wonder if school health curriculum should cover more about pregnancy (the process of miscarriage and stillbirth), just as a medical reality that a human might want to know about, similar to menstruation or breast cancer. It’s so little talked about until you get a bunch of friends of similar age going through real world pregnancies. I think lots of people are shocked by all the ways things can go sideways and how it might impact them and their loved ones.

    3. Abra from CapHillStyle had a great commentary which aligns with what I see others doing – people feel like they’re doing worse than they did 4 years ago.

      Going to the grocery store hurts financially, daycare is wild, houses are unbelievable. People don’t feel like they’re doing well and so they voted out the party in power. (Caveat- I didn’t vote for Trump.)

      1. It’s a tale as old as time – It’s the economy, stupid. The party in power gets the blame when people feel crunched, regardless of how past presidents or global events impact the situation. This administration actually has a lot to take credit for here, but they did not message it. And the tone of the campaign did feel a little “mother knows best” that perhaps feel like insult to injury (not blaming Kamala AT ALL, she worked a miracle pulling off an energetic campaign in three months. But the dem party as a whole does have that type of ethos)

      2. I’ve really enjoyed her commentary. She’s not always my cup of tea (have been reading CapHillStyle since it’s inception), but I would agree that she’s been a thoughtful resource, particularly as a former political persona and a republican.

      3. I know someone who says the same except that he is objectively better off. He was living in a one bedroom apartment in 2020 and just bought a million dollar McMansion this year. Lots of other people in the same boat. They’re upset that they can’t live like Kardashians and it’s harder to rent a really fancy air bnb for their vacations.

        I read a line in an op-Ed yesterday that I didn’t really agree with as a whole but the line resonated – “middle class people feel working class” – maybe that’s what it is. But I have no sympathy for people who are operating from entirely faulty assumptions about the current excising and his plans. Same with abortions. It’s not a pro life position to have women dying from pregnancy. Same with Gaza.

        I did a lot of soul searching in 2016. I read Hillbilly Elegy, etc. I have no interest in any of that now. I think sometimes the simplest explanation is often the truest. We have a lot of people who are just uninformed, ignorant, sexist or a bit of all three.. I am done thinking about what policies or arguments would appeal to them because they don’t care & I don’t need to either.

        1. I am a middle-class person who feels working-class. I blame it on the fact that our economic, tax, and regulatory policies are all set up to favor the accumulation of massive wealth by a few at the expense of ordinary people.

          1. Right. And GOP policies will not help that. Which is why I am beyond caring about people who vote for them for this reason.

          2. And I am an objectively upper class person who feels middle class! (HHI of $200K in a VHCOL area). The elephant in the room is lifestyle creep has become a societal pastime, and we feel entitled to so much more. Not to be all “avocado toast” but I can remember my parents buying coffee at McDonald’s a handful of times, and never anything fancier. Now even working class people are buying fancy coffees and Stanley cup collections on the regular. All this consumption has become normal.

            And then of course there are the bigger, economic issues of medical costs and rent/housing prices. And in many cases, no amount of personal responsibility can overcome the chasm.

            But when it comes to having a lot of money but feeling like we don’t, it’s a mix of individual choices and economic policy.

          3. Totally agree, but the Republican team is going to make these income disparities worse.

          4. Anon @10:44 I completely agree with you. Additionally, as a Millennial, in our twenties there were all these giant tech companies subsidized by investors that allowed us to get used to a standard of living that none of us can actually afford. Ubering everywhere, gorgeous Airbnbs for $100/night, Doordash/grubhub, heck, even credit card bonuses were crazy a few years ago.

            I was making $46k/year in 2016 and felt like I was rich. I had gotten the Southwest companion pass through credit card points and Airbnbs were so cheap, I took literally ten trips that year, and barely paid any cash for them.

            Now I make $135k/year yet everything just feels SO expensive. (Voted for Harris)

          5. Anon at 10:29 here. To clarify, I blame the Rs and not the Ds for those policies and think anyone who claims to be voting R for economic reasons doesn’t understand economics.

        2. i agree with your point that there are a lot of people who are ignorant/uninformed – but they still have the right to vote, so messaging needs to appeal to them. they all think that Trump’s policies will be better for them economically, but likely cannot give a good explanation as to why.

          1. I guess I just can’t care anymore. I’m resigned to the fact that it’s hopeless. It’s like having roommates who trash your house. At some point you just have to stop thinking that a chore chart will fix anything.

      4. But do they really think things will be better in terms of food prices, housing and child care under Trump? Of course everything is more expensive now but I don’t think that is unique to the U.S. so why blame the party in power? Their concerns are valid but voting for Trump will not alleviate their pain.

      5. Don’t give that woman clicks. She has repugnant views (like her views on guns!) and is one of the most self-centered people you can imagine. She had the nerve to be mad when people were (rightfully) upset about school shootings and even though she’s a mom now, she’s the same old Abra.

        1. Yup, fellow old person here who remembers her crying after Sandy Hook, not about the kids but about how hard it was for her to be an NRA lobbyist that day because people said mean things to her. Abra is a garbage person.

        2. Yeah, I can’t listen to an influencer who worked for the NRA. They are an immoral organization at this point. They could support reasonable gun controls.

    4. I know someone who voted for him because she feels the Democratic Party doesn’t adequately support Israel and Jewish Americans.

      I want to caveat that this is just one person, and on the whole Jewish women strongly supported Harris, with 88% of us voting for her. Only Black women had higher margins for her.

      1. Yes, I’m not a Trump voter (or Jewish) but DH is, and some of his family reluctantly voted for Trump. They are all traditionally Dems but some of them feel that the Trump would be better for Israel, the Dems are too tolerant of antisemitic voices, etc. To be clear, this is a smaller subset of DH’s family, mostly the older men. Lots of other members of his family lean strongly D, so like OP above, I’m not trying to paint a single group with a wide brush.

        I’m also always surprised by the level of anxiety around the t@ans question. I’m not 100% sure how I feel about it and wish we could have a nuanced conversation about, but it really wasn’t top of my reasons to cast my vote in any way. But some people, particularly the older generation but also some younger men, are really fixated on it. Not saying I agree, but that come up in conversation.

        And obviously, “the economy”. Again, I don’t agree, feeling like they were financially better off 4 years ago was probably the main reason for a lot of people.

        2. This issue was huge in my (not Jewish) family. They all felt the Dems were way too tolerant of the pro-Gaza movement and they are strong supporters of Israel. In some cases they still voted for Harris but a lot of them held it against her.

          They could be convinced to revise abortion laws for unintended consequences (they do not think women should die!) but they are firmly convinced that abortion is murder at some point . They view all the screaming on the left about ectopic pregnancies and fatal fetal defects as disingenuous at best since we would not be willing to limit abortions to those cases. This is actually something I think could be a compromise – abortion up to 12 weeks and afterward only if two doctors certify it is necessary but they are never going to agree with “my body, my choice” when it comes to later term abortions. (And the logic of preventing a women from getting pregnant, or forcing blood or organ donation is not the same as the logic of allowing her to “murder” a life in being. – And please don’t @ me; I am pro-choice.)

          And absolutely to crime and homelessness. Their sympathies are definitely with the people who find needles in their local parks and not with the drug users who left them (and who have driven a crime wave in my home town).

      2. On the opposite side, I’m Muslim and almost everyone in my extended family voted Trump or Jill Stein as a punishment vote for Biden supporting Israel too much. FWIW my parents and I did not – we are all Kamala voters as we recognize that Trump will only expedite the ethnic cleansing as Gaza offers beautiful beach front property that he will want his company to develop on behalf of Israel. FWIW we’re not Palestinian or even Arab.

      3. there are a lot of Jewish voters who only care about Israel and voted for Trump in 2020 based on that issue as well. This time around some additional Jewish voters were convinced to vote for Trump

        (I am Jewish and pro Israel, but most certainly did not vote for Trump and I actually think he is worse for Israel)

        1. Not “lots” …less than 20%. And much less than that if you exclude Orthodox Jews who are concentrated in NY and don’t affect the electoral college. But yes, some.

    5. I know a few people who think that the Democrats are extremely hypocritical, especially when they claim to be the party of science. Things like pushing out Covid boosters around the clock on poor evidence and ignoring concerns about myocarditis or the fact that other countries are not giving the vaccines to young kids, pretending that there are no differences between men and women, etc. have really hurt the Dems. To be honest, I think that some of them have a point. I’ve never missed a vaccine in my life but even I have been given pause about the Covid booster schedule – why are we pushing more vaccines against old viral strains without any RCTs to support? And I do support protecting women’s sports – like others said yesterday, Democrats keep scoring own goals on that issue.

      3. I disagree about the Covid boosters (no one is being forced to get one, and the people who don’t want it don’t get it) but I think the women’s sports issue is huge. You can strongly believe in adult humans right to t r a n s ition and live authentically and be called whatever name and pronoun they like, while still believing girls sports should be limited to girls who are AFAB. The discussions here exemplify that, with people getting called T E R Fs for saying biological males have physical advantages. But it’s objectively true. Serena Williams is the best female tennis player in a generation, possibly ever, and she lost to a man not ranked in the top 200. She would not be remotely competitive on the men’s pro tennis circuit.

        It does not shock the public conscience the way the sports issue does, but I also have a huge problem with t r a n s women getting “women in STEM” awards and scholarships. The hardest part of being a woman in STEM is all the bias and discrimination you face as a student and early career professional, and I’m sorry, but someone who t r a n sitions as a tenured professor and went through grad school and early career stages presenting as male has not had to overcome the same obstacles.

        1. Agreed – and I also don’t think people take kindly to “you clearly don’t even know anyone in that community and that’s why you’re biased.” Anyone with kids probably knows 15 to 20 other kids in 9th grade alone who consider themselves to be the opposite sex. It’s such an obvious issue that it makes Democrats look really stupid to keep hammering nonsense. It also makes people wonder what else they’re lying about.

        2. On the second part, how would you feel about awarding those scholarships to those who transitioned earlier in their lives? Were would you draw the line?

          I agree with you about the (theoretical) professor who transitioned post-tenure, but I’m not sure where the line would be for me.

          1. Different poster here. I think that women’s scholarships and sports should be for those who were born women and remain women. There can be other scholarships for people in other gender categories.

          2. Not the person you are replying to, but I think I’d still say no. On many things, my view is “life’s not fair” and the job of a government is to focus on making it the best it can for the most people it can. Unfortunately that means some people get the short end of the stick on macro policies. (Genuine human rights issues aside.)

            Frankly, I don’t care if a trans woman competes against women in non-professional levels because life’s not fair! No one is “owed” a win or even a literal even playing field in sports (which is a hobby, not an essential right).

            Similarly, I don’t care if trans women qualify for scholarships because life’s not fair! We all know college admittance and scholarships are not based on merit alone.

          3. I’m fine with it (am a women in STEM who’s received some of these scholarships). Many if not most of these kinds of scholarships nowadays in my field (computer science) are for underrepresented people in STEM, not just women, so my trans sisters and brothers are just as eligible as I am. I’m so proud of my grad school cohort. We built each other up and all are out in the world now doing good things. Many are in public service thanks to those scholarships.

          4. Yeah I generally favor what the 11:39 poster said and keeping women’s scholarships for AFAB and having separate scholarships for LGBT or even just the T if an institution feels strongly about that. I don’t disagree that they’re marginalized too.

          6. Anon at 11:58, if that’s your view then we shouldn’t have women’s sports at all. The entire purpose of women’s sports is to make life a tiny bit more fair for women.

        4. The funny thing to me about zennials and zoomers throwing out the T E R F epithet any time someone disagrees with them is that the R and F stand for Radical Feminist. You’re not talking to radical feminists the vast, vast majority of the time, and probably aren’t even talking to feminists at all.

      4. FWIW Europe is generally more hesitant to vaccinate kids than we are in the US. It’s not Covid specific. They don’t give kids the chicken pox vaccine over there, even though that vaccine works incredibly well at preventing disease and there’s longstanding evidence it’s cut down on death and hospitalizations.
        I’m married to a pediatrician and we both felt very strongly about our kids getting both the chicken pox and Covid vaccines and are glad we live in the US and have access to them. We actually have several European friends who come here for vaccines. One of the rare instances of the US having a better QOL for kids and parents.

        1. I went private to get my son chicken pox in the UK. Major drugstores do it, and you get rewards points. I didn’t pay for shampoo for the year.

        2. Interesting about the chicken pox.
          I live in Europe in a country where only adults (shingles) or immunocompromised people get a chickenpox vaccine. Everybody else just gets chickenpox in kindergarten. Unofficial chickenpox parties are a thing, too, to accelerate getting it over with. 97 percent of kids go to kindergarten, though, so the coverage is good.

          You have me curious, so I’ll be reading up on the history behind this! Differences in vaccine programs are interesting. Some of our lack of-s are questions of economy, here, but don’t know about this one.

          1. That’s how it was in the US until about 1995 or so. It’s certainly not as devastating a disease as measles or polio. But the data is there that shows the vaccine has reduced physical harm, to say nothing of the economic harm of kids off school for a week or more and parents missing work to care for them.

          2. Chicken pox vaccines aren’t about the kids – having chicken pox means you can have shingles as an adult, and it can be devastating. It probably matters less now there is a shingles vaccine, but it’s only a few years old.

          3. Actually chicken pox can be severe in kids too! I was hospitalized with it when I was 8 years old in 1993 just before the vaccine came out, and might not have survived if I hadn’t gotten an experimental antiviral drug. I had no major risk factors except asthma, which is not exactly rare. I’m eternally grateful my kids could get the vaccine.

          4. Actually chicken pox can be severe in kids too! I was hospitalized with it when I was 8 years old in 1993 just before the vaccine came out, and might not have survived if I hadn’t gotten an experimental antiviral drug. I had no major risk factors except asthma, which is not exactly rare. I’m eternally grateful my kids could get the vaccine.

      5. The women’s sports issue is huge with my conservative family. Same with taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners (coupled with a sense that the Vet is woefully underfunded / they’re unhappy with the care they’re getting there). Have heard a lot of “why am I paying for [insert offensive description of sex changes here] for prisoners when the Vet can’t even get me seen by a real doctor” from my FIL.

        1. So do your own research but I think there are exactly 2 instances of those operations actually happening for prisoners. And GOP wants to privatize VA hospitals.

          I do believe that people are upset about women’s sports, except somehow none of those people ever gave a sh*t about women’s sports before and don’t beyond this issue going forward …

          1. Okay, but the sound bite of Kamala talking about prisoners in the they/them ad was effective. And the GOP wants to privatize the Vet because they also know it’s dysfunctional.

            If liberals want socialized medicine, they need to spend time focusing on fixing the form of government-provided healthcare that is supposed to be dedicated to people who served their country. It’s pretty telling that absolutely no teachers’ unions are advocating for access to free healthcare at the Vet when they bring up the “we serve the country too!” argument.

          2. It was effective because they are uninterested in facts. Hence why I am not interested. Kamala has to pitch a perfect game and he gets to say insane things, fellate a microphone and win.

          3. I represent a state correctional system, and I can think of over two instances in just my state. How would you know unless the prison system fought it? It is private medical information.

          4. Why are you cluttering up a thread that is for those of us who ARE interested, then? Just collapse it and skip it. Your comments aren’t adding value to this conversation.

          5. Not Interested – I’m not sure why you’re still reading this, as you clearly don’t want to actually listen. I voted for Harris, but I have family members who didn’t, and I am interested in all of these reasons that people are giving. You are… clearly not. And you appear to be part of the problem.

      6. I agree and would add it’s the way democrats approach these issues with a level of orthodoxy that cannot be questioned or debated or discussed without being deemed an “ist” or “anti” of some kind. They need to learn to have a discussion.

      7. Peter Sandman’s risk communication website has some excellent pieces on the danger of promoting specific policies as if they’re science itself and then characterizing opposition as anti-science. I don’t share his politics or many of his takes, but he’s absolutely correct that noble lies do more harm than good.

    6. The lawfare waged against him these last few years was appalling. I’m an attorney and I was horrified by it.

      Imprisoning pro-lifers for praying in front of abortion clinics was disgusting. There was a judge who basically told a grandmother that she would die in prison.

      J6 protesters who never entered the Capitol and were not violent were arrested and imprisoned.

      Crazy thing is, when the left screamed about Trump’s authoritarianism, it fell on deaf ears because it was so obviously projection. If you think you’re running against an authoritarian, don’t be jackbooted thugs.

      The assassination attempt was the final straw. I’m not a conspiracy theorist and don’t need to be one to believe that the Secret Service was okay with Trump getting killed on national television. The plan to murder him wasn’t complicated: shooter on a roof. The SS must have gone over that in training – sniper with line of sight to the target – and they did nothing for 45 minutes.

      This stuff CANNOT work. I went from “sit this one out” to campaigning for him, donating to him, and getting on a plane to a swing state to be part of the on site legal team.

      Clap back all you want; I truly do not care. It’s nothing but a b–chy clap back from people who never ever held their own side to account for the truly appalling spectacle of the attempts to imprison and then murder the frontrunner opponent.

      1. “Imprisoning pro-lifers for praying in front of abortion clinics was disgusting.”

        Were they breaking laws about how close you can be to the entrance? Because there are laws about that. I know you think praying is all wholesome, but it can also be intimidating and threatening.

        Did the J6 people refuse to disperse when the police told them to? Because I would bet good money that BLM protestors who disobeyed the police were arrested.

        I don’t get why it’s disgusting to imprison people who broke some laws, but okay to imprison other people who broke laws.

        I mean, I thought your party was all about “law and order.”

        1. Agreed, it’s not one person praying, it’s a group of people blocking women from accessing medical care and harassing staff and volunteers. Also, pro lifers don’t have shooters and firebombers coming for them. No sympathy there.

      2. You are an attorney and your whole argument is that he was treated unfairly. Is that sufficient to give him the most powerful job in the world. Is having been wronged a qualification?

      3. Thank you for sharing this response with those of us who are curious about your viewpoint. I have one genuine follow-up question: I appreciate the issues that motivated you. How did Trump’s objectively problematic traits and actions weigh into your decision, if at all? (I am not here to judge your answer, I sincerely want to learn this.)

      5. I’m an attorney who is very liberal and agree that some of the prosecutions were politically motivated and inappropriate abuses of political power. It’s why calling him a “felon” means nothing to Republicans, because they believe, not incorrectly, that the cases would not have been brought against him absent political opposition.

        I do not agree, at all, with the second half of your post.

        1. Which cases do you think wouldn’t have been pursued? Which charges were ok to overlook, in your opinion?

          1. The NY prosecution is the clearest cut politically motivated case. Of all the potential cases they could’ve brought against him, they picked the tawdriest possible case. I’m also not totally convinced that the behavior was criminal (as opposed to a civil violation that should’ve been addressed administratively). Many of the judge’s decisions about procedure did not seem particularly grounded in precedent.

            I am more even-keeled about the Georgia and J6 cases, because I think those have potentially legitimate legal bases, and I understand the logic of considering prosecution. Because they have not gone to trial, I don’t feel totally comfortable evaluating their merits.

            I do not understand the classified documents case well enough to comment on it at all (and I suspect no one does because we don’t know what the worst documents were!), so I am reserving judgment on that absent a trial. It seems more likely to be politically motivated than not, but I can easily see how it could be a good faith prosecution based on the evidence only the prosecution is privy to, so I’m reserving judgment.

      6. This is where I landed as well, Anon at 9:23. Thank you for articulating it so well.

      7. Maybe research what you are talking about. BLM protestors who broke the law were prosecuted. And the Democratic President didn’t send protesters out, only your guy did that. And no one was arrested for being peaceful, like the BLM protesters they were arrested if they trespassed.

        1. No, they were not. The city was burning and it was continuously referred to as “peaceful protests “. J6 was overblown by dems in its importance. It was not insurrection that had any viable chance to succeed. It was a brawl. Most of the flyover country took it as such and discounted in their decision to vote.

          1. I live in DC. The J6 protests were far, far more violent than any of the BLM protests here.

          3. You don’t think Trump calling a Republican election official in Georgia and telling him to “find” him 11,000 votes is an attempted authoritarian takeover of the government? You’re either dumb or you’re burying your head in the sand and refusing to see plain facts right in front of you.

      8. We had a zillion investigations as well. Our guys with issues were pressured to resign, as was our President when he developed health issues. Your guy has been celebrated despite being a sex offender who lied on his taxes, and re-elected despite his obvious mental decline. If you cared about the country you would had him properly screened by a competent medical team.

      11. I appreciate your giving us a window into how you came to your position, and I can agree that the NY legal actions were suspect in that they might not have been pursued against another offender, even though they proved successful. However, the suggestion that either the Georgia case or the federal cases should not have been pursued, given the evidence of his personal conduct, and the consequence of letting such conduct slide because he is a politician, when his actions were unique to a politician and designed to undermine political systems that protect this country’s national security and democracy, is abhorrent and intellectually dishonest.

        I’m not even going to give credence to that nonfactual garbage about the assassination attempt.

    7. I asked some of my friends who voted for him, and their reasons included:
      *Immigration – My friend’s parents came to this country to work towards citizenship while he lived in his home country for the first four years of his life. They have strong opinions about illegal immigration.
      *Abortion – This one was based in the Constitution. My friend said she agrees that it is an issue that belongs to the States, that is settled now, so no reason not to vote for Trump on this basis. She is pro-abortion herself.
      *America First – One friend said they think putting America First is essential and what is missing in this country. This friend said putting America First is an ideology this country was created upon and is appropriate now.

      1. This last reason is terrifying to me as an avid student of history. “America First” has long been the rallying cry of American attempts at fascism (see the 1920s through McCarthyism).

    8. I have a lot of family in Georgia. They voted Trump but are not MAGA by any means. Primary reasons are 1) perception that democratic spending is way out of control, 2) dems are way too involved in our daily lives – COVID lockdowns being their go-to, 3) economy may be good, but they’re not seeing it at home (Abra Belke/CapHillStyle made this same observation yesterday), 4) immigration – perception that illegal immigration s out of control, putting pressure on school systems and communities as a whole and that it’s gotten materially worse in the last 4 years.

      True or false or misguided, doesn’t matter. They are target swing voters (voted for Biden in 2020) and this is why they voted as they did. Note that abortion/women’s rights is nowhere on that list.

      1. Oh, and then there’s a segment of the extended family in rural GA and throughout Alabama that are solely, purely, unwaveringly focused on abortion. They’re the R base, though (like true God-fearing, pastor-worshiping southern Christian types), and will NEVER swing so I don’t think they’re what you’re asking to understand.

      2. yes, if you look at exit polls, it was immigration and the economy, and those issues mattered more to people than Trump’s character and past transgressions and Democratic campaign’s messaging did not do a good job on those issues.

        most people don’t care what is best for democracy etc., they care about how much they are spending at the grocery store (economy) and i believe that a lot of immigrant voters believe that if they had to go through legal immigration processes so should everyone else

        1. I think many people on this board think that Trump’s character – including, specifically, his comments and attitude about women, his support of the repeal of Roe v. Wade, general narcissism, constant mindless lying and his inability to accept or shoulder responsibility for any failure – should disqualify him as a candidate even before you think about his policies (or the concepts of policies). I personally think he’s amoral and serves himself and not the public, but for anyone who voted for him, clearly it’s not a deal-breaker and that’s what so infuriating. I said this yesterday, but the Republicans could have chosen anyone, and this is who they put forth.

          1. Yeah, I feel like Ron DeSantis would be equally bad on policy, probably worse (especially on abortion rights) but I would be so much less upset if he had been the person elected. It’s the fact that voters saw this man who raped and sexually assaulted multiple women, including underage girls, talked about grabbing women by the p*ssy, joked about Kamala being a prostitute and blowing her way to the top, said immigrants were eating household pets, tried to overthrow a free and fair election, and incited a violent mob to attack the capital, and said “yes that guys, that’s what we want” that absolutely kills me.

          2. I agree with this and that means that no amount of campaigning would ever be enough. It’s also baffling how anyone can believe anything a known liar and flip-flopper says but here we are.

      3. Same. I am a dem in GA and my college educated extended family in GA and AL that voted for trump did so because of these issues.

    9. I am not American but friends were really put off by Harris saying she couldn’t think of a thing she’d change. That’s a basic question she flubbed. Like interviewing and being unable to tell the hiring manager why you should get the job.

      1. I agree it was a bad answer, but it was also a TERRIBLE question to ask the only candidate who was engaging with the press. She was being asked to write her own attack ad for Trump to use against her. And since Trump was not engaging at all with the traditional media, she was the only one subjected to any type of negative inquisition from the press or the ability for someone to use her own words against her. Journalistic integrity not only requires asking tough questions but understanding the broader context to not unfairly penalize the one person who was still providing access to reporters. I lost a lot of respect for Anderson Cooper after that.

          1. +a million. I voted for her, but I was so disappointed in that answer. if I’d had an alternative I thought was better, she would have lost my vote there.

        2. I agree she flubbed the answer. But it is still infuriating that this is enough to disqualify her, when Trumpnot only cannot give coherent answers, but even his incoherent answers are also riddled with lies and delusions and fever dreams. The bar for him is so so low, and we only grade based on expectations. Over it.

    10. The tech people I know who aren’t incels who voted for him because they think he will be good on taxes and genuinely believe he isn’t competent enough to enact the rest of his economic and social policy agenda. The rest have rotted their brains with too much Joe Rogan.

      1. I’m a lifelong democrat and I truly believe he won’t be competent enough to do much more than tax reform and maybe an immigration bill. The tax cuts he passed last time expire in 2026 (was intended to be a bomb in the lap of his successor) and he’s going to spend all of his political capital dealing with that.

        1. So much of my time and consideration given to planning around the sunset of the estate tax laws at the end of next year, and I bet that’ll be the first thing on his agenda. God forbid people with $25 MILLION DOLLAR estates pay a dime of tax!

    11. I voted for Trump primarily because I believe in a stronger economy with less regulation and reduced deficit spending.

      At all levels I want to see Democrats pushed back toward the center, especially on crime. It’s truly gotten out of control in the Bay Area, and we can’t keep pretending everything is fine. We need to have real conversations about issues like trans rights. Yes, everyone has the right to exist, but we also need to be able to have nuanced conversation and be able to disagree re trans women right to compete in women’s sports.l It may not be a common issue, but it’s happening, and it matters. The erasure of women in general is important and alarming to me.

      When I pointed out that electric cars won’t work for many, especially lower-income families, someone laughed and dismissed my perspective because I’m not a transportation expert. That kind of elitism pushes people away and is indicative of the Dems problem. And I say that as a wealthy, educated person living in a blue state but with a working class background. You don’t need to be an expert to see how impractical and even impossible it can be for families living in multigenerational homes or apartments without charging access. I don’t know how I’d manage 3-4 electric cars even when my kids need cars.

      Let me be clear: my vote for Trump is not a resounding endorsement of him. People need to realize that voting for Trump doesn’t make you part of the MAGA crowd. Many are so blinded by their hysterical hatred for him that they can’t see the bigger picture. The bigger picture is a harsh rejection of who the Democratic Party is today.

      1. I appreciate you sharing your perspective. As a non-Trump voter, I do personally think if you are willing to vote for Trump, you are MAGA by association. From a campaigning perspective – do I think my perspective is helpful messaging during an election to convince people to vote for him? most certainly not. But yes, i do personally judge people who were willing to put aside everything he has done. I don’t like who the Democratic Party is today either, but I’m not really a fan of presidents who support storming the Capitol building

        1. “I do personally think if you are willing to vote for Trump, you are MAGA by association”

          I mean, you’re entitled to you opinion. But I think this is wholly dismissive of the portion of the electorate that voted for Biden in 2020 and Trump on Tuesday. You have to WANT to listen to them in order to have a different outcome next time. Saying effectively, “To hell with them… they’re all MAGA” is insane to me, and will lead us all to having to endure a Vance-led ticket 2028 and 2032.

          And I’m a dem.

          1. I’m different than the Anon above, but also a Dem and I also think that folks who vote for Trump are, by definition, associated with the MAGA movement.

            That doesn’t mean that I think all of those folks can’t be won over (and that’s why I’m reading here), but it’s wild to me that someone who voted for him wouldn’t claim the platform. I have issues with the Dem platform (I’ve seen many of my concerns noted here), but I’m not othering myself from my party and my vote.

          2. I voted Harris and don’t claim her whole platform. I voted for Senator Warren in MA and one bajillion percent don’t claim her whole platform. It’s not black and white. There’s nuance and that’s where the dem party misses time and time and time again.

      3. thank you for sharing. Someone asked this above, but did Trump’s problematic traits/actions weigh into your decision at all? If yes, how do you reconcile? And if not, why not?

        1. They did weigh into my decision making. I do believe that there is a strong media narrative that pushes stuff that has been debunked. I also believe that some of his charges were politically motivated. In combination it has led people into hysteria over him.

          I do find him distasteful and didn’t anticipate this would be the first R candidate I’d vote for.

          That said, I feel largely disillusioned by both parties but align far less with the current Democratic Party today on fiscal policies. I am moderate on social issues. I am pro choice but I can’t be a single issue voter there and hope that I can bring some moderation to the right there as well.

          1. Thank you for these answers, Anon.

            I’m personally pretty liberal, but also want to see politics that are not being pushed by the extreme ends of both poltical spectrums, because I think it tends to lead folks who are more centrist to move further right by default, particularly because our poltiical landscape is ruled by sound bytes.

            I appreciate your willingness to answer.

          2. i’m the anon at 11:59 who asked the question. I appreciate you sharing your answer. out of curiosity – which stuff has been debunked? you also said that you find him “distasteful.” Do you view him and the MAGA stuff as a threat to democracy? or you aren’t concerned about that?

            i am also more moderate on social issues and pro choice, but for me personally I want the president to be someone I look up to, who my children can look up to, who I’m not petrified of having access to nuclear codes and representing us on the international scale. When I was studying abroad in college in 2005, the natives of the European country I was visiting kept asking me and the other Americans how would could stand Bush, so I can only imagine what they think of us now. I guess you could say that character is as important to me as policy. and the fact that many of the people who previously worked with/for him, were begging people not to vote for him.

          3. I think fixating on if your kids can look up to the president foraying too much into respectability politics. I also find plenty of fault in Kamala’s past that are simply ruled out as sexist should you point it out.

            Trump often gets painted as a reckless madman, but I don’t think that’s fair or accurate. Take the “fine people on both sides” comment, for example—it’s often cited to suggest he supported extremists, but that’s been widely debunked. He specifically condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists in that same speech.

            In all honesty, I think Kamala would’ve commanded very little respect on an international stage, right or wrong.

            I’m also not concerned about his threat to democracy. Dictators typically don’t wait until their second term to cement the transition to an authoritarian regime.

          4. Not sure you are reading anon at 2:23 but just have to point out:

            1. Some of his charges is not all of his charges. He incited a riot, tried to steal votes and refused to return state secrets. Any one is disqualifying even if you question all three.

            2. He’s had dinner with known neo nazis and courted their vote repeatedly. The amount of things that you have to ignore here…

            3. World stage comment. Wow. That is sexist. I hope you don’t have daughters. The man you voted for is an international joke but she wouldn’t have commanded respect. Sure. Ok.

            4. Dictators actually do that a lot. Take a look at Turkey and Russia as recent examples. Hungary as well. I hope he’s too incompetent to pull it off but your point is wholly ignorant of recent history.

      4. Why do you think the Republicans would have reduced deficit spending when it is usually higher under Republican adminsitrations?

        1. Thank you. The idea that Republicans spend less is a fallacy. Clinton got the deficit to ZERO, W brought it into the trillions, Obama halved that, then Trump brought it back up. A 2-second Google search told me that.

          2. And this year alone they increased the deficit by 138 billion which outpaced the rate of growth.

          3. I think because people associate deficit spending with government spending and welfare and “handouts” (D) instead of huge tax breaks to the mega-wealthy, etc. (R)

        2. Context matters. Trump’s deficit spending was largely focused on stimulating economic growth through tax cuts and targeted spending, rather than expanding the size of the government itself. Expanding the size of the government creates slow long-term growth. Slower long term growth hurts everyone.

          2. Remind me how giving tax breaks to corporations and billionaires stimulates economic growth? We already know money doesn’t trickle down, and corps just keep the profits for their executives and/or shareholders.

      6. I agree with you as far as crime and electric cars being inaccessible for most people.As a Jew, I absolutely think the democrats fumbled when it comes to combatting antisemitism and holding universities accountable. However, I do care more about women’s rights/safety, the LGBTQ community, etc. I don’t understand someone saying they want less government involvement and less regulation but sure leave abortion up to the states and let women die or not have full control over their bodies. But you still want less government regulation? Make it make sense! I think Trump voters just prove that they care more about their bank accounts than my actual life. That’s why I’m enraged.

        1. I care about the lives of my children. I grew up working class bordering o outright poverty. I bootstrapped myself to upper middle class. I care about women’s rights but I also feel like I have yet to escape generational poverty and I’d like to ensure my children don’t see it. I realize this is not entirely rational but watching rhe economy deteriorate and my quality of life diminish is difficult and scary.

    12. ITT: people who did not vote for Trump explaining why they think other people did.

      1. Lol point taken, but on this board OP would only get like two responses otherwise. Many of us are close enough to Trump voters to be 95% certain of their reasons. Or they have literally listed out their reasons in a social media post. I don’t think we are spit balling here

      2. Yeah… and if you do explain, you get dogpiled. Then everyone is shocked Pikachu face when Trump gets 72 million votes.

      3. Boy, you can tell who has actually listened to their family’s views and who has constructed them in their minds, can’t you?

    13. I’ll tell you why my 29 year old brother votes for him, courtesy of some drunk honesty.

      1. my brother deserves a house (this is especially egregious because I, a dumb lady, bought a house before him)

      2. my brother deserves more pay and he thinks Trump will strengthen his union? This seems the most delusional, my brother went from 17/h to 42/h when he joined his union, but somehow he doesn’t understand labor protections. (Also it’s ‘BS that [I] make more with [my] f$#king humanities’)

      3. he thinks things will be less expensive, no reason given

      4. he deserves a wife. Truly, my brother thinks because he has a good job and made it to the age of 29 he should be bestowed a wife. (He’s especially salty that I’m married and have this ‘privilige’).

      1. (he’s not this honest when he’s sober, he will fluff it up and say things like ‘increase housing affordability’ or ‘make gender relations better and improve traditional dating’)

        1. I know this isn’t you, it’s your brother, but what does “improve traditional dating” mean and how will Trump make this happen for him?

          1. He doesn’t like the apps, and how women can block him or refuse to interact. I’m not really sure how he thinks that can change. He thinks the women will just have to respond?

            It doesn’t help that my brother is hopelessly attracted to women who are way out of his league. He currently follows around this very nice research chemist, who has told him on no uncertain terms she would not date him unless he sobered up and did some self improvement.

          2. To add, my brother could very easily date and marry someone who was his equal, another messy alcoholic blue collar girl, but he doesn’t want that, he wants what my dad has a woman who has her sh*t together.

      2. What a catch. How are the ladies not throwing themselves at him? /s
        Sorry you’re having you achievements diminished by him, OP. You sound awesome.

        1. Thank you! I honestly think a lot of political violence is the golden child boy being less successful than their sisters and freaking out because this is not what they were taught to expect.

          1. I agree. Im a GenX who was told “you can be anything you want to be” by parents and society who didn’t anticipate I might actually do the things.
            My work group chat (where I’m yet again the only woman) is gross today and I do not have the energy for a fight right now.

      3. Your brother is truly frightening. Thinking you deserve something like a house and a wife is insane. You have to earn it and be someone women want to date, let alone marry.

      4. This aligns with what social media shows is being spoonfed to young white men. White men especially don’t want to do the work to be good partners and religion is to blame for some of that. Men aren’t going to be the head of household. It takes two incomes to keep a home running. That’s not going to change with some tax cuts unless you drastically cut your spending. But Americans want to buy lots of stuff. And white men don’t want to have to compete at jobs. They believe they’re entitled to them and that women and people of color should be second to them. Everything should center on their advancement and that’s the economic issue they’re really unhappy about.

    14. I did not vote for Trump, but I have been listening to Madeline Albright’s excellent book, Fascism: A Warning, and in the context of the history of the social and economic factors that tend to precede strongmen’s rise to power, it makes perfect sense to me why he won again.

      I voted against him because J6 + his awful rhetoric is an absolute deal breaker for me, and I have a high HHI and a comfortable life. However, as someone who was raised in the Midwest, served in the military, and has lots of family in TX… liberal coastal cities are a bubbles. What seems self-evident from your cushy white collar urban/suburban life to be The Right Way has ripples that massively impact job opportunities and ways of life in “flyover country.” You can’t tell people they’re wrong or stupid for feeling scared and resisting that. And you can’t tell them that liberal social issue du jour is more important than being able to provide for their families.

  3. Day 2 of this horrible reality. Shower. Eat reasonably healthy. Take a walk outside. Do not doomscroll. Avoid news. Tackle your to-do list. Meet with a friend. Go to bed early. We’ll get through these next four years one day at a time.

    1. I find myself rejuvenated today. New reasons to work out to be strong for the coming civil war zombie plague apocalypse Purge! Also thinking about buying a gun. Shooting ranges are actually really fun.

      1. Not going to lie; I’ve also thought about purchasing a weapon. What usually wins out are the stats about how deadly they are to owners.

        1. we’re going to live in a very gun heavy society from now on, best familiarize yourself with them at your leisure.

          1. I don’t understand this thinking. Wouldn’t people be buying more guns if Harris had won because they’re concerned about not being able to buy them in the future? Why does Trump winning make it a more gun heavy society than it is right now?

          2. they have all three branches of government. any limits on gun access are coming off.

        2. I am the one who said i was considering it, and it is b/c the crazies are armed to the teeth, and I want to have a fighting chance

      3. My body is much less anxious about the domestic agenda (definitely privilege) than about the nuclear codes and WWIII! Sure, I start to spiral when about climate change and the future trajectory, but I’m trying not to think about that because I can’t do much right now.

    2. College dd told me things were pretty somber in her classes yesterday. But she said she went to a zumba class with my other dd, is binge watching The West Wing, and made grilled cheese and tomato soup for dinner. We should all do self care as well as she does!

      1. ahhh, the West Wing was my binge comfort watch in 2016, glad to hear it’s still fit for purpose!

    3. Sorry but I’m not giving this kind of mental energy anymore. It will be fine. If anything, democracy has been restored because there’s no serious question of who won. Power will go back to the other side peacefully. In terms of legislation, some things will be bad, some will good and some will be neutral. Much of the worst already happened. There will be more elections. And this is only four years.

        1. I’m not sure why this question is posed here, but DJT has at times said he supports providing broader or even blanket immunity to police officers for conduct within the scope of their duties. Meaning there would be broader legal protections for cops who injure or kill in the course of their job and thus fewer prosecutions of people like Derek Chauvin (the officer that murdered George Floyd), since they could claim immunity. He has been inconsistent on this. He has indicated he’s essentially for blanket immunity for cops in his rhetoric, but then when presented with specific examples and asked whether he agrees the cop should not be punished, he indicated that the immunity should be applied on a case-by-case basis (which is what happens now). He’s really, really ignorant, unintelligent, and unintellectual, so this fits with how he addresses most of the critical issues facing the country and the world.

          1. This should really read: He has indicated he’s essentially for blanket immunity for cops in his rhetoric, but then when presented with specific examples and asked whether he agrees the cop should not be punished, he indicated that the immunity should be applied on a case-by-case basis (which, UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM, is what happens now).

      2. it definitely will not be just four more years. even if the 2028 election is a free and fair one (which is highly highly in doubt) then Trump is going to replace Alito and Thomas with 30 year olds and all the other judges

    4. Honestly, taking care of yourself is the right answer. I don’t understand these commenters who feel the need to understand the other side. It doesn’t matter. These people are not your spiritual family and you need to understand who your people are, not understand why other people are selfish, hateful, or just willfully dumb. We need to figure out our own futures in spite of these people. It’ll never be in partnership with them.

  4. To everyone despairing yesterday – I heard something that really resonated. “It is not our lesson to learn.” We screamed as loud as we could about what’s to come… and it is not our lesson to learn, what happens from here.

    1. It may not be our lesson to learn, but our loved ones are going to feel the impact in ways that are brutal, so i can’t disconnect from this.

    2. This is a big takeaway for me. We did what we could. Some of his supporters are going to be the ones to feel it a lot (among others) and apparently people need to feel it to understand.

      What I have learned is that I had underestimated how dumb people are. Very disappointed by the gen z trend toward to right.

        2. It’s a little unfair to blame gen z when the exit polls I’ve seen (take with a grain of salt at this point) still have them as the most Democratic voting age group, just one that swung right compared to 2020. And while there’s a big gender gap, gen z men are also the most Democratic voting men of all age groups.

        3. Podcasters w no qualifications have way too much influence on Gen Z. A whole generation men have been radicalized by Joe Rogan.

      2. I think our lesson to learn is to ignore the hype about Gen Z. The individuals I’ve met in that age category are a toxic mix of incompetence, entitlement, and selfishness, with a loose regard for the truth. Kind of like the candidate many of them voted for.

        1. Here’s where I (late-30s childless millennial) get confused…

          who parented those Gen Zs – is it Gen X or young baby boomers? where did their upbringing go awry? why didn’t their parents raise them with media literacy? respect for women’s bodies?

          I know it’s just me internally looking for someone to blame, which is not good. but seriously – who raised these young men so poorly?

          1. I would love to discuss this more. I do think social media and how. much “innocent” content on video games/gym/etc gets turned into redpill nonsense. Idk why they can’t read.

          2. I have limited anecdata, but the power of social media, reddit, and other right-leaning media cannot be overstated. We are friends with two separate families, in different states, who are liberal. Their sons went to college not far from home, and came home with MAGA hats. One was spouting off about how his parents don’t understand how big “the movement” is and kept trying to get them to read reddit threads full of nonsense. His mother is beyond distraught, she feels like she doesn’t know her son anymore and feels like an abject failure in raising him with their core values.

          3. Gen X parented them. I think there were a lot of things new on the scene during Gen Z’s childhood and it caught parents by surprise. WiFi, smartphones and social media, where the kids were set free without knowing the dangers, for example. A bigger focus on “mental health” and misguided approaches to handling (like coddling and helicoptering). As well as beginning the pendulum swing against boomer parenting, which led them to be overly permissive in some areas while being reactive in others (no more playing outside without supervision, etc).

            Millennials are parenting Gen Alpha, and we have a bit more perspective now on the pros and cons to these things

          4. I don’t have an explanation, but I think we don’t 100% control our teens ( and I say this as the parent of a toddler, so no actual experience). I don’t have the same political opinions as my parents, and they parented me very well. So although I find it disheartening to see the pendulum swing the other way a bit, I don’t think we can assume it’s the result of poor parenting.

        2. Can we please stop with labeling an entire group of people based on the year they were born? Gen Z is currently 12 to 27; half of them are too young to vote. There are almost 70 million of them. They have experiences in common but treating them as a monolith is insulting to them (and their loving parents).

          2. All I am saying is factually ages 18 – 29 (a good chunk covered in that range you mentioned) voted more conservative than the age group above them. It’s not generalizing, its an observation. Usually people expect younger voters to be more liberal, and that’s not the case.

          3. +1000. My 21 year old son voted straight blue. He spent hours asking me questions and researching the candidates’ platforms. Please don’t label Gen Z.

          4. Where are you getting that information? Exit polls should be taken with caution, but all the ones I’ve seen have shown 18-29 voting more liberal than the older groups (though less so than in 2020). It’s 45-64 that’s most conservative.

          5. Compared to previous elections, not in absolutes
            https:// www .cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

            I know exit polls aren’t perfect but its a start

    3. I don’t think his followers will learn anything from this. Even if his policies negatively impact their lives, they’ll just claim it’s fake news and somehow will blame the democrats, immigrants, etc.

      1. Agree. They all saw how Trump was completely incapable of managing the pandemic and watched as their loved ones died from Covid. They saw how we couldn’t get basic necessities like toilet paper. If you lived through that and voted for Trump a second time, you are incapable of learning lessons. I get that they don’t blame Covid on Trump, but if they can’t see how Trump’s inaction led to lives lost then they are too far gone to be helped.

        1. More people died from COVID under Biden than under Trump, and Trump didn’t mismanage the response.

          1. Because COVID was/is around for all the years of the Biden administration and only one year of Trump’s. Do you seriously not get that??

            The Trump administration did do a good job of getting the vaccine out fast, although I think that was despite him, not because of him. But they did a pretty crap job of getting masks (yes, masks help, don’t even start with the nonsense that they don’t) and tests and protective equipment out to hospitals and whatnot. Remember the morgue trucks of 2020? Remember Jared Kushner bogarting all the PPE for his cronies? Remember “let the blue state die?”

            I guess if you don’t think that’s mismanagement, cool. You should try for a job in the Trump CDC. Or probably it will be the CDP – Centers for Disease Promotion.

          2. More red voters died under Biden because they refused the vaccines, refused to mask and went on Spring break. Deaths were disproportionately from your party and it’s your fault.

          3. Compare response of both to what the situation looked like in Canada or any other developing nation. Let’s take a moment in reality.

            There is a reason why the pandemic began to hit so hard in many red states. Folks began to die at a different rate because they were brainwashed into thinking vaccines and masks are a bad response to an airborne illness. That’s not on Biden.

          4. Trump mismanaged the response; they never transitioned from a general lockdown to a conventional test and quarantine suppression approach partly because they bungled tests and partly because they didn’t have the PPE necessary to suppress an airborne contagion (so they just pretended it wasn’t airborne and that respirators weren’t necessary).

            Biden also mismanaged the response by telling people that vaccinated people wouldn’t catch or spread COVID (the pandemic of the unvaccinated). Meanwhile the CDC said it was fine to get vaccinated and quit masking, even while also saying that in their data, the vaccine wasn’t preventing death as well in people with four or more comorbidities. Many vaccinated people died and many others spread the virus to vulnerable people because of false messaging.

      2. I agree. Even when young women die of botched abortions and other similarly catastrophic outcomes, they can always fall back on “it was God’s will.”

    4. It IS your lesson to learn. For nine years straight, sixty to seventy five million people have been screaming at the top of their lungs that you need to shut up for a hot second and listen to their real and valid concerns.

      1. The concerns are real and valid, I don’t think you would find a Democrat who wouldn’t agree that grocery prices are too high and that homeownership is out of reach.
        The idea that the man with the track record of Trump is capable and willing to address these concerns is absolutely ludicrous. If this were 2016, I would understand more people falling for his stick, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, against all that he has done, that’s where I am lost. I know many make the same argument about the last four years being Harris’s track record. I guess we disagree about the fact that good things were accomplished in those four years.

        1. yup – there is no magic wand that exists to fix those problems without causing others, and that includes Trump. when social security runs out in six years people might regret revenge-voting over the price of eggs.

        2. The problem is that Trump doesn’t have a magic wand to fix inflation. And at the end of the day he really doesn’t care what happens to his people. His economic plans are going to disproportionately screw his own lower income voters. And disproportionately help his billionaire cronies.

          1. is it even inflation or is it just corporate greed? i’ve read so many articles about how costs are going up because companies can do it. even if they’re keeping prices the same they’re giving you less cereal in the same box size. middle men who are increasing prices, for pharmaceuticals and groceries.

        3. Would Democrats agree or would we get a lecture about Bidenomics? What were Democrats doing about homeownership these past four years? Investors have been buying out houses and leaving them empty for years now where I live. The only reason I was able to buy was that the seller was sentimental and willing to accept less money just to see the house go to someone who wanted to live there. What were they doing about private equity buying out hospitals, care homes, veterinary practices, and bleeding them dry?

          It still doesn’t make sense to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. But a lot of people heard the message that nothing will fundamentally change and that Harris wouldn’t have done anything differently and without knowing what to believe, decided to jump ship.

          1. And… a Trump administration will do something to stop investors from buying up houses? I agree it’s a problem, but if you think republicans will sell out their private equity cronies to help the average person buy a house…

          2. I’m telling you that many people were voting “against” what I’m describing and not “for” anything; they’re just gambling and hoping for change, and I think they got played.

          3. trump’s going to give tax breaks to those investors so they have even more money to buy houses and other stuff. that’s why they elected him.

        4. i personally agree that the idea that Trump is capable and willing to address these concerns is ludicrous….but a lot of other people don’t think that, and so instead of convincing people to think like you and I, the messaging needs to address the issues that they care about and convince them that Trump is not the solution to their problems.

          1. the problem is that they control the messaging and the framing. it isn’t just fox news, it’s many many many local news stations, even ones not owned by fox. they’re all over hobby influencers and podcasters. they have even corrupted the idea of a shared sense of history and facts among us. in previous years we could agree the earth was round, vaccines were good, slavery was bad. the home schoolers and wacky charter schools are spitting out people questioning the first two, and the entire country has been receiving history textbooks that say the civil war was about state’s rights.

            you cannot reason with those people. the problem will get worse with school vouchers as more kids go to schools without a common regulated curriculum and the public schools go bankrupt.

      2. They blew a hole in the boat because they didn’t like the direction we were sailing in. Now we’re all going to sink or swim.

      3. And they need to shut up and listen that tariffs won’t help the economy, that mass deportations will have a very real and negative effect on the economy, that “inflation” is caused by the consolidation of businesses and price fixing which is something the republicans will never try to mitigate, that a bipartisan plan to fix immigration was scuttled because Trump told his minions not to fix immigration, and that Democrats don’t eat babies and abortion at birth isn’t a thing.

        But they’d rather believe the fairy tales and shout about trans people.

      4. They listened and the Harris platform had policies to address those issues. They were too dumb to understand them. I said and yesterday and am still waiting for it, but there is no smart defense of Trump. Every reason given is either ignorant or racist.or because democrats are “condescending”. Ok great, you were made we are smarter than you so you tanked the country out of spite.

        1. I listened to Kamala as she said she’d solve it with stopping “price gouging.” Excess government regulation that would ultimately drive prices up.

          I live in CA. I see PG&E. The highest rates in the country because there is no competition.

          1. Just wait until you see what trying to cut off foreign competition through tariffs looks like, my friend. There’s a reason why basically every economist warned of prices skyrocketing. And even Elon talked about the need to get through tough times for a while (mind you, they won’t be so tough though for him).

            Enjoy your $4,000 cell phone.

          3. She was absolutely ridiculed for saying grocery stores were price gouging and then literally a few days later it came out that some major grocery store chain WAS price gouging. Prices are dropping now (I see it at the grocery store) and of course Trump will get the credit. Absolute madness.

          4. PG&E has a monopoly in the Bay Area. It’s exactly how they work. There’s no accountability.

            Despite being profitable and awarding hefty executive bonuses, they keep raising prices. Meanwhile, when it comes to covering the costs of repairs and even lawsuits from wildfires linked to their equipment, those costs are passed down to the customers. So, we end up paying higher rates not only for electricity but also for issues tied to their own mismanagement.

            At the same time we’re being told to embrace electric cars. It’d cost me $5k to install a proper electric car charger at my home because of the placement of my panel. I got multiple quotes. So my options are pay that and erase my minimal savings on gas entirely or rig up a half assed solution and risk fire. I opted to just use the free charging for 3 years that came with my car for the time being. There’s a charger at my office so while not ideal, it’s not the worst option.

            That said, I realize my free charging is coming straight from my tax dollars so I pay one way or the other.

        2. I don’t think Trump’s policies were any better, but I listened, and heard basically:
          a) We’re going to *spend money* on this issue with no clear connection to whether it creates any outcome
          b) “You’re wrong, we’re just going to yell louder about how the economy is /actually/ great”

        3. I think it’s important not to confuse ignorance with distrust; a lot of what we know is actually just something we believe because of who we trust.

        4. so i agree with you on this point….but these people who are “too dumb to understand them” still vote, so we need to find a way to get them to understand, which the democrats obviously failed to do. (and yes i am one of those elitist democrats people detest so much, but the reality is that there are a lot of dumb people out there)

      5. I’m genuinely interested in how we have not listened. I agree grocery prices are too high. That’s from corporations who used the pandemic and the supply chain shortages to jack up prices and did not bring them down when supply chain issues resolved. So are you telling me that Trump is going to make Kellogg’s and Johnson and Johnson lower prices? Those CEO’s funded his campaign. Ditto for housing prices-when interest rates went up (good for the majority of citizens who earned more interest on savings), then more people stayed put in their 3% mortgage rate homes and that caused massive price increases. Is Trump going to force the fed to lower interest rates to 1% again? If yes, I would be interested to see that and the economic impact that has. Not to mention, he doesn’t even have a plan for what he will do for health care (I have ideas about a plan), much less the economy. Yes, I’m listening. I just don’t hear the right answers to how this is the Dems fault.

        1. Kellogg’s prices, like everyone elses, have gone up largely due to higher labor costs and increased prices for raw materials.

          Is every company at the grocery store colluding together to price gouge? No one wants to undercut the other to gain market share? Along with the grocery store that itself runs on thin margins relative to other businesses?

          1. you’re right, deporting all the people willing to work for less money will definitely make prices better

          3. And yet our inflation was a lot less coming out of the pandemic than other industrialized countries–but let’s just ignore that? It’s easier to ignore the larger pressures on supply chain and labor during a period of low unemployment these past few years. Let’s pretend Biden directly controlled your eggs costing more.

            Making the wealthy wealthier and getting into tariff wars will trying to reduce low-cost labor will surely solve this.

        2. I’ve been wondering about how *I* personally have not listened. Because I was suprised by the results (not necessarily that Trump got elected, but his margins, and the differences between raw numbers of votes for reproductive rights ballot measures and votes for Harris in the 10 states that had those ballot measures), I know I’m missing something.

          So I’m focusing on what my own blind spots are, where my logic has let me down, who have I been metaphorically shouting down (even if in my own head). There’s something going on with my fellow citizens that I don’t understand. And if I don’t understand then I have little leverage to engage outside of my own bubble and influence what happens next.

          2. i agree with this. i was thinking instead of national media i should start reading local papers in red states. lord knows we should probably support journalism in those states since they matter way more than the NYT or LA Times.

      6. Predictable responses from this crowd: mansplaining, Democrat edition.

        It’s reminiscent of when men nastily and condescendingly told women why we shouldn’t chose the bear. Like maybe STFU and LISTEN to why women say the bear, consider their perspectives, and get over your privilege???

        1. People are asking you quite often to explain what policies promoted by Trump make you think he will make things better for the average American. But the only response seems to be, Well, the Democrats told me facts and I don’t like that.

          1. And so maybe Democrats should figure out how to tell them facts they do like.

            It’s obviously not resonating.

            But Dems want people to explain themselves and then they don’t like the answer. It’s not coherent enough, they’re too dumb to communicate and so on and so forth.

            But then “Wow! I can’t believe we got crushed.”

          3. Seriously. The protest vote against the economy should have been to stay home. It’s not to vote for Trump.

      7. And they need to shut up and listen that tariffs won’t help the economy, that mass deportations will have a very real and negative effect on the economy, that “inflation” is caused by the consolidation of businesses and price fixing which is something the republicans will never try to mitigate, that a bipartisan plan to fix immigration was scuttled because Trump told his minions not to fix immigration, and that Democrats don’t eat babies and abortion at birth isn’t a thing.

        But they’d rather believe the fairy tales and shout about txxns people.

        1. How did shut up and listen work for you in the election? Keep running with it though. Maybe it’ll work some day.

      8. Harris voter here. Agree 100%. If you don’t want to learn this time then keep losing elections. This attitude is why I unaffiliated from the Democratic Party.

      1. That’s how it always is. The days of being able to mindlessly coast through the world worrying about things like current pant styles and your third vacation, assuming our institutions will hold is a luxury we can’t take for granted going forward.

        But to quote my long dead grandmother (who unfortunately would have certainly voted for Trump)—it is what it is.

      2. Not everybody will pay the price: https://www.aol.com/finance/world-10-richest-people-got-123321648.html

        This is the reality. It’s not about men in women’s sports. It’s not about Mexicans taking white people’s jobs. It’s not even about generational differences. It’s a large-scale message war that was won by the richest controlling and profiting off of the candidate promising less regulation, lower environmental standards, and driving down competition. We live in a time of little fact-checking. Bots on social channels. Myopic media consumption. And folks who have gutted traditional media norms to the point that we all believe in our own realities.

        When concentrated wealth controls the campaign d, we all lose. Too many aren’t recognizing that though. They would rather be entertained by our new leader dancing on stage and sitting in garbage trucks than to question exactly what is going to happen to the day to day boring but important work of healthcare, education, etc. etc.–issues that aren’t keeping Elon or Bezos or any others of those listed up at night unless it affects their workforce/profitability.

    7. I certainly think Dems have a lesson to learn. I’m astounded by the election results and Dems general unwillingness to listen despite the landslide.

      1. Ardent Dem here, and you are not wrong. Am so so furious at Biden and DNC at this point – they had four years to find a way to appeal to moderate Americans, rural, farmers etc, and blew it. They could have made business happy with new trade deals – nope. They spent all their time fighting on behalf of labor and did so poorly with the working class. And most of awful, they sidelined Kamala, whom I now adore, and had no idea was this walking talking powerhouse of smarts, and savvy, and sassy. Will never forgive him.

          1. I don’t think she’s a genius, probably not as smart as Hillary Clinton or Obama, but she’s clearly much smarter than the average person. Anyone who can graduate from law school, pass the notoriously hard California bar and have a successful career as an attorney is well above average IQ.

        2. a lot of the top people for the democrats are in the 60+ age range. they’ve also been trying to work with republicans and stick with old norms that republicans don’t respect, like the blue slip policy. they’re holding on to power.

          the republicans on the other hand are guided by some master plan put together by the Koch brothers and FedSoc guys back in the 80s or 90s. those nerds and policy wonks sat down and figured out a long game to take over america. getting solid red state- and local- governments to gerrymander. purchasing media companies like Sinclair. aligning themselves with the evangelicals and the people who wanted Confederate-friendly textbooks. now guys like Thiel and Musk are involved. Trump may be a clown but the people behind him know exactly what they’re doing.

          until democrats start strategizing at the 50-year level they will never win.

          1. Yes, this is absolutely true.

            Republicans have always been better than Democrats about playing the long game in the background. They choose Presidents to be figure heads, while understanding the real power is starting locally/state level and gathering the coalition.

            And now with the billionaires/social media involved it is getting completely beyond control. Russian bots / Chinese balloons just add to the chaos and manipulation.

            I think we are lost.

      3. The Democratic Party is ironically the least democratic in the way they choose their leader. In 2016 they were dead set on Hillary and actively worked against Bernie. This year they denied their party a primary even though Biden was unpopular. When they swapped out candidates they propped up Harris, who aside from being tied to an unpopular administration also performed poorly in the last primary. They completely botched this election but I’m not hearing any acknowledgement of that nevertheless an apology to the party.

        Look I like Biden and Harris. I was happy to vote for both of them. I was happy to vote for Hillary and would’ve been unhappy with Bernie. Heck I voted for Hillary in the primary vs Obama. But it’s very clear to me that most people don’t think like me. This is a democracy. We should be standing behind someone who will have the most support not just the person we like best. The republicans, for all their faults, at least understand that.

        1. I’m not their biggest fan either, but didn’t progressives do great in this election too? They always said Bernie wasn’t electable, but so was the party’s pick.

          1. Their concern for working people is great and should be emulated by the rest of the party. But their solutions don’t work. Bernie and Warren got zero traction nationally.

          2. Harris outperformed Bernie is home state of Vermont. That man has no standing to criticize her campaign. I hate him.

      4. This is where I’m at, too. Dems haven’t listened, and Biden stayed in the race way too long. I personally like Kamala’s energy but let’s face it: She wasn’t popular when she ran in 2020, so putting her in place was a hail mary pass that didn’t work out. I realize the Dems didn’t have another choice at that point, but this was mismanaged from the beginning.

        1. And Biden originally ran as a one term candidate; voters didn’t assume that or make it up.

          1. i realize this totally doesn’t matter now, but Biden should’ve run in 2016. People liked Obama and their bromance and I think he could’ve won then and maybe then we could’ve avoided a Trump presidency all along. i DESPISE Trump, but would’ve had a really hard time voting for Bernie over Trump, though I still would’ve done it. I think the super liberals are as bad as the MAGA people

          2. He was planning to run in 2016, then his son died and he was too deep into grief. This has been well-established and written about in depth. But yes, this entire mess would have been avoided if Beau Biden hadn’t died when he did. Hillary almost defeated Trump the first time as an unlikeable candidate running a bad campaign (and I say that as an HRC fan) and probably still would have won if not for the Comey letter. There’s no way Biden wouldn’t have absolutely trounced Trump in 2016.

    9. Not our lesson to learn but we will still feel the brunt of other people’s decisions. I just feel less safe knowing so many people voted for a man who r@ped women and has no respect for women. It signals that it is ok for men to act like him and there will be no consequences. All my female friends are more afraid of walking home alone at night.

      1. yup. And we see the legal system being used so that there is no justice, even when it seems so clear. I feel betrayed by the system and by my fellow Americans.

    10. Does this mean Mississippi / Louisiana / Alabama will gain stellar health care + public schooling ?

  5. Very low-stakes question for the day: Where do you find good quality, 100% cotton long sleeve, crew neck white shirts that aren’t too see through and feel nice against the skin? My ride-or-die for many years was Splendid, and I bought them in bulk, but they’ve now become thinner and just gross and the ones I own have gotten dull and a bit stretched out. I wear these constantly (especially in winter, I layer under sweaters, vests, etc) and can’t find a brand that is anywhere near to their former quality. The Splendid was a cotton knit, I believe, which is what made it so comfortable. Bonus if it is below $100 (I used to pay $99 for the Splendid ones before sale price) but at this point, price is not a concern. Thank you!

    3. Gap modern tees – the cotton is thick and the white isn’t sheer. They come in long/short sleeves and crew/v necks.

      1. I really like these too but they are a cotton modal blend. They are thick and silky and don’t stretch out as much as some modal blends.

        In general I do think rib knits are softer. (All t-shirts are knit as opposed to woven, but rib knit is a specific stitch pattern that is naturally more elastic).

    5. Land’s End and LL Bean are both great options for cotton t-shirts and are considerably cheaper than what you were paying.

      1. +1. These are my staples. They last forever, though the newer ones aren’t as nice as the old ones.

    6. Either Leset or James Perse are my picks for nicer ones. Jcrew or Gap for ones I will replace in 2-3 years.

    9. Almost all t-shirts are made out of knit fabric, and for that matter almost all of them are cotton knits.

    10. Rank and Style has a list of the best long sleeved T shirts on the Internet today! Yay in my pit of despair I am helping someone!

    11. I like James Perse t-shirts for the quality of drape and how they hold up, but white is another level of difficulty. Following with interest.

  6. Repost from yesterday afternoon, much thanks to the two of you who responded there.

    Could I get recommendations for a lawyer in Northern Virginia, please? I need someone to represent me in a situation that could be emerging with an estranged and extremely difficult, volatile family member’s estate. I don’t know very much right now, but I’m not returning the message I got yesterday without retaining council. Sadly, BTDT.

    1. Where in NoVA? I have connections with estate attorneys and litigators and would be happy to make recommendations offline – do you have an anon email you can post?

  7. I am looking for wheelie carry on luggage, with a laptop compartment, that zips open from the top so I can easily remove said laptop during business trips without opening my entire suitcase on the floor, and with one large compartment inside (not split in half like all the hardshell luggage seems to be), and preferably with some additional pockets on the front for easy access to random stuff. I do not need a built in charger or built in lock. Google, Amazon, Travel Pro (recommended here previously, thanks), and the brand of my prior wheelie are all failing me, which I think means this type of carry on is simply not made anymore. Does anyone have a unicorn recommendation?

        1. Away is also really poor quality for the price, imo. It’s trendy and cute, actually quality luggage.

          2. Completely agree. My bag broke mid-trip. There is a warranty. But instead of replacing the bag, they are sending me a “repair kit” that requires me *with tools* to deconstruct the bag and put it back together. So, not only poor quality, ridiculous warranty.

      1. I reread this and the quince suitcase is split in half. I don’t know of a suitcase this fits this specification. Good luck with your search!

    3. With the caveat that it is not a designated laptop pocket, my Travelpro Maxlite 21″ works for this. It has two outside pockets. One is tiny but good for cords and the other is the right size for my laptop and I can open it while the suitcase is standing upright because it has zippers on both sides. I usually put my laptop in a sleeve for extra padding but it does work.

      I looked at the Carl Friedrik but did not want to spend that much. However, I understand it is excellent if you want a separate laptop compartment and a hard sided case. I also looked at the Samsonite Carry-On Spinner, which has a better laptop pocket, but the TravelPro was on sale!

      1. Have you considered the TravelPro FlightCrew 5 line? It is made specifically for professional pilots and crew, and is super-robust, while remaining quite affordable. It is not sold at regular commercial sites or department stores, bur only through online stores that cater to professional flight crews (but you don’t have to be one to buy one). I just checked and there seems to be a 21″ rollaboard available. Good luck!

    4. I think delsey has these. I also have one from hanke (I think this is a made up brand) that is similar… I’ll post the link in another comment.

      1. https://a.co/d/gRURd6w

        It’s called “ Mixi Carry On Luggage, 20” Suitcase with Front Laptop Pocket, Travel Rolling Luggage Aluminum Frame PC Hardside with Spinner Wheels & TSA Lock and Cover”

    7. If you like a hard-sided carry-on, Monos has this. I think it’s more common in soft-sided luggage.

    9. I think most people don’t put their laptops in their wheelie bags and put them in their personal item instead.

    10. Tumi. Soft sided. Like the Alpha line. You’ll have it forever. And they’re having a sale right now.

    11. Briggs & Riley. My suitcase has all of these specs, incl a front padded top-zip laptop sleeve pocket.

  8. My daughter got out of the PICU on Election Day so I’ve had that as a very welcome happy distraction the past few days. We had fantastic care from the nurses, residents and attendings in the PICU and would like to send something to express our appreciation. Does anyone who works in healthcare or been in a similar situation have suggestions beyond just a heartfelt card? We also had great, timely care in the pediatric ER (although spent less time there).

    1. Following, I need to send gifts to the NICU as well. Would something like a large box of good quality chcolate be appropriate?

    2. I am a doctor and have also been in a situation where I received exceptional care. I wrote a card to the caregivers personally, but what really mattered was writing a detailed, specific note including as many names as possible describing what was extraordinary about the care and sending it to the patient advocacy/patient complaint department. When you do that, it often gets the attention of the CMO, CNO and trainee program directors. It actually impacts your provider’s careers and is incredibly rare.

      1. Seconding this! I worked in healthcare and my workplace actually had a patient experience survey distributed and multiple times being named by name and Dept would positively impact my boss’s and grand bosses’ opinions of my work. It was even mentioned in my performance review! So if anytime you can leave positive feedback to the head of a department it should be helpful to the people. Glad your family member is now doing well!

      2. My husband is a surgeon and says a similar thing. After a rocky complication during one of my deliveries, we sent a very detailed thank you note to the head of the department that listed first and last names of everyone in the room that helped and what specifically they did (both medically and patient-comfort related). He didn’t do one for the patient advocacy group, but also it’s the hospital he works at and he was the one who decided whom it should be sent to, so hopefully he knew the right politics for his workplace. He noticed that one of the nurses we referenced got a hospital-wide award maybe two months later, which was announced in a full-org email he got – I’m sure she had a track record of excellence but we hoped that our feedback helped as well.

      3. This is really great advice. And even though the time in the ER was short, don’t leave them out of your praise. Emergency medicine doesn’t get a lot of love, because anyone in the ER is having a really bad day.

        As far as an actual gift to the PICU staff, an abundance of wrapped treats is a good way to ensure that staff on multiple shifts will get to enjoy them.

    3. Depends on how much time and effort you want to spend on this but I’d say notes to every person who provided a lot of care – assuming you know their name. It can even be emails but just something to them personally. If there are others who provided some care but you don’t know or remember their names, you could do personal notes to certain people and then a group card to the nursing unit on that floor. As the dr above says, the important part is for anyone who isn’t at the top of the food chain – a note to their boss, so it is known how great they are. That can just be one note where you point out the nurses who really really helped. I say not at the top of the food chain because if the dr you’re thanking is the chief of the PICU, it is already known how amazing they are. But the same can’t always be said for a resident looking for the fellowship or nurses – people need to be told.

      As for a gift, why not lunch or dinner one day – something other than pizza. I just feel like those folks can be so busy that food isn’t a priority certain days. Why not have lunch catered in like trays of Italian or something like that that offers a variety of entrees and folks can grab what they like as they have downtime and have a hot or re microwaved meal?

      1. If you send food, make sure you send some for both the day shift and night shift staff.

    4. What great news about your daughter! When we were in a similar situation, I asked friends who worked in our PICU what was appreciated. The resounding answer was snacks, not necessarily meals, so different shifts could access. We did bagels, Cliff bars, veggie and fruit trays. We did a general notecard to all, I wish we would have made a sign as we noticed others had done so and it was easier to read who it was from. You may also want to consider doing two days, for weekend/float and weekday.

    5. Definitely food – for the night and day shifts.

      We were less healthy and would bring donuts from a fantastic place, but bagels is another good choice.

  9. My election silver lining – my state (NC) elected Dem candidates Josh Stein and Jeff Jackson to Governor and Attorney General, as well as Rachel Hunt to Lt Governor. The R candidate (Mark Robinson) for Governor was HORRIBLE, so I’m really glad Stein pulled through. Still puzzled on how that didn’t turn NC blue, but I guess it wouldn’t have mattered. I loved Stein as Attorney General because he made processing r*pe kits a top priority.

    1. Also in NC and the R education lady did shockingly well even though she lost (and IMO deserved to lose). I’m glad it is a purple state so both parties have real skin in the game in statewide races but my local races are mainly ones with only one candidate running.

    2. People discussed this yesterday, but non-MAGA candidates who aren’t Trump don’t normally do that well. He has a cult of personality around him that others can’t yet replicate. Maybe it will change, but for now this is one of the main things giving me hope that this will be over for good in 2028.

      1. I mean non-Trump MAGA candidates. Non-MAGA down ballot candidates generally fare better.

    3. I get Jeff Jackson’s emails and really like him! I was happy about that too.

    4. North Carolina is so interesting!! All the top state positions went to dems while still going for Trump. I’m from Michigan and Slotkin (D) narrowly won the open senate seat yesterday, again while the state went for Trump. Are there really that many split ticket voters? Or is it more likely people left the top of the ballot blank?

      2. That was the story pretty much everywhere. There are always a lot of split tickets when Trump is on the ballot.

        1. If Harris had held Biden’s margins in Texas, Allred would have won. That one hurts.

          1. i live in TX and am disappointed by how not at all close that race was. I thought Allred had more of a shot and the polling numbers were so off

          2. He outperformed Harris by a lot. He would have won if the presidential margin was the same as 2020 and given that many people expected it to move slightly left, I think he did more than ok.

      3. In 2020, I voted for Biden and my red state’s Republican governor, because the Democrat was threatening to close the public schools. Normally I vote straight ticket Dem but I do think a lot of people split or don’t fill out the rest of the ballot. Trump in particular seems to attract people who’ll show up just to vote for him and no one else.

      4. NC actually split the ticket for the governor in 2016 and 2020 too. Don’t ask me to explain the people who voted Trump-Stein-Jackson. I cannot. I would also point out that the Republicans had two perfectly reasonable candidates running in their primary and they opted to go with the crazy guy. If they’d picked either of the two sane candidates, they probably would have won. Mark Robinson makes Trump look reasonable.

        1. Primary voters always tend towards picking extremists though. Because you only have to appeal to the base, not all voters.

          1. This is technically not true in NC (unaffiliated voters can vote in the primary of their choice).

    5. I follow Jeff Jackson on TikTok and really like him. I think he has presidential possibility!

      2. can he go straight from AG to presidential candidate or will he need some other office in between? I am not in NC so I just looked him up and read about him and I like what I saw.

        1. I suspect he’s aiming for governor then president. I also expect Josh Stein (new governor) may run for President. And I think our current governor (who was term limited) may run for Thom Tillis’s Senate seat in 2 years, though Cooper is 67 so who knows, maybe he just retires.

        2. He has been Congressman for a few years, so IMO he can go from AG to President, but like Anon at 12:37 said, I think Josh Stein would run for President first.

    6. NC voter here and I’m so happy about Stein, Jackson, and Green! Proves Ds can win in this state when they focus on issues people care about.

  10. want to send a cute golf outfit to a friend for her birthday who just started golfing. suggestions for a place with free shipping and returns? nordstrom doesn’t have anything particularly cute which is usually my go to for gifts because of the ease….

    1. Birdie? But golf pro shop gift card might be better. Athleta isn’t bad. Tory Burch is very cute but spendy.

    2. Tory Burch has the best golf clothes I’ve seen. For slightly less $$ (but much preppier) Lilly Pulitzer’s Corso golf pants are fantastic.

  11. Does anyone care to share experience with Invisalign?

    I have an appointment to ask my dentist about it but would appreciate anecdotes so I can ask more informed questions. My interest is not for cosmetic reasons but because I am in my mid-40s and my teeth have shifted in uncomfortable ways. Until my early 20s, my lower front teeth were mildly crowded and I had an overbite, but it did not cause problems and braces were never recommended. My teeth actually shifted and straightened in my mid-20s (yay pregnancy hormones!), but lately seem to be reverting to their more crowded state. My tongue seems like it doesn’t have enough room and I notice I am making accommodations in how I speak in order to avoid talking with a lisp.

    1. I started invisalign when I was about 38 for similar reasons. It took me about 2 years start to finish (I refused rubber bands and didn’t wear the trays when traveling for work). I also didn’t wear the trays on days I would be presenting/on video in front of senior folks knowing that would make things longer – I was ok with slow and steady.
      I still highly recommend it. My teeth feel better/stronger and everyone else in my family has teeth that got dramatically worse in their 40s so it felt very much like preventative care.

    2. I got Invisalign in my late 30s. I had to do a year of using an expander before I could start Invisalign. If I had to do it again I would have insisted on more time with the expander. The whole thing is a total pain and very expensive (I pay monthly) but after 3 years I’m almost done. My teeth aren’t perfect but I’m smiling for picture again.

      1. Is the expander different than the invisalign trays themselves? Is it a literal pain, or more annoying? Would you mind sharing your ballpark cost?

        Thank you!

        1. Yes! The expander is a device that you wear that stretches out the roof of the mouth, in my case, and gives more room for the teeth and space for the tongue to rest. Every week you turn a key to expand. It was uncomfortable but didn’t hurt. I had braces in my youth and that pain was worse.

          My smile was narrow and my teeth were crowded so I needed to expand my palate to get more room for my teeth before they could be in a position to shift w the Invisalign. I think it the expansion actually made my face better looking.

          1. So when looking at three years (my treatment plan) i could only justify it by telling myself that three years would pass no matter what, and I might as well have a smile I wasn’t ashamed of at the end of it.

          1. Wow, $17k total?? That’s significantly higher than I was expecting. I will definitely need to nail that down before moving forward. Thanks for sharing.

          3. I had an “easy” case (still took 2 years total) and spent less than $3000 total.

    3. my elderly mother just got them this week. her dentist was pushing her. she was very worked up about it but says they aren’t bad at all. she definitely isn’t a little slurpy sounding but i think it’s because its brand new.

    4. I’m late 30s and recently finished up a 27-tray (which took about 8 months) course of invisalign. I’m just waiting for my retainer to get made. I’m very happy with the results. I didn’t do it for cosmetic reasons, but rather because multiple dentists told me my teeth were going to keep chipping and wearing down because of my bite. I feel much better about getting older with my teeth in order. I also think my smile looks better (though it was always fairly decent/straight).

      The first 2-3 weeks were awful because the buttons they put on your teeth feel really weird (and sometimes hurt the inside of your mouth). They scare you about having to wear them for 22 hours a day, which I found impossible. To be completely honest (which I never was with the dentist LOL) for the last few months I was only wearing them to sleep and maaaaybe a few hours here and there during the day (not during workday). And my results were still good, FWIW.

    5. I have it right now! I have friends who have done it, and all are happy. The only surprise to me was that they put little bumps on the outside of your teeth to hold the trays in place. My understanding is that they come off at some point in the process but they are slightly visible (to me anyway). Some people have a lisp when they first get it (the trays go around the back of your teeth), and then again, friends have told me later in the process they put bumps on the back of your front teeth on the top so you have the lisp again. I didn’t notice my own talking sounding different but others who know me did. I would say the first two weeks are the most annoying, and after that you stop noticing/caring. Happy to answer other questions! Also, whoever invented this must be *so* rich – I know so many people who are or have done it!

      1. Oh right! Yes, little cement anchors. They sand them off when done. I actually also have a metal anchor on my back tooth because I’m shifting the center of my smile in one direction with rubber bands.

        1. This is going to be dependent on your mouth and your capacity for pain. I’d say no. Sometimes a new tray will rub differently and there will be some dead skin on the inside cheeks to scrape out (finger nail and mouth wash)

    6. I am in the middle of treatment, for cosmetic reasons. I am actually using a slightly cheaper “generic” brand called Dandies, but it’s functionally the same.

      So far I have had a good experience. It is more an inconvenience than anything. It is definitely annoying having to time all my meals and carry a toothbrush around to work and when I go out to eat (but on the plus side, it’s curbed my habit of random snacking and grazing). The pain is not as bad as I had feared, just a little sore the first day or two after starting a new set of trays. I had a minor lisp the first week or so after I started, but it completely went away once my mouth adjusted.

      My advice:
      1. Research providers. Your usual dentist might not be the best choice. I am working with my usual dentist and I haven’t had any problems so far, but most people recommend going with an orthodontist.
      2. Ask about generic options, and understand exactly what the quoted price covers
      3. Prepare to pay in full if possible (I got a small discount for doing so). My insurance didn’t cover anything, but you might have more luck if you can prove it’s not cosmetic.
      4. Ask how often you will be changing your trays and why your provider recommends that. Many people change once a week, but my dentist is very wary of that because it’s not as safe for your teeth. He said he would only prescribe changing that fast if I had a super complex case and it could take a lot of time off my treatment. I change every two weeks and I appreciate that it cuts down on the pain and trips to the dentist to pick up my next set.
      5. Get an electric toothbrush if you don’t have one already, because plaque can build up around the attachments

      Sorry for the novel! It’s slow at work this week…

    7. Worst decision of my life.

      Had braces in high school and wasn’t great about wearing retainers. So I did it in my mid-20s. I was told it was going to be a year or two max. Ended up being more than four years (plus a year of traditional braces when I finally said enough). I ended up with TMJ afterward that still affects me to this day (after seeing a separate TMJ specialist). After all the time, pain and money–I hate my smile now and don’t know why I ever started. They sort of raised my lower teeth. I look back on old pictures and like old smiles so, so much more.

      For the record, I chose an actual orthodontist and he regularly speaks and teaches–so not just some dentist moonlighting or newbie.

      Really, really think about it and get several opinions from different orthos before you begin would be my advice.

    8. I got Invisalign in my 50s to correct really crooked teeth that had bothered me my whole life, and it was truly life changing for me. I am not exaggerating when I say that I am able to fully smile and I was too embarrassed to do that before my teeth were fixed- they were that bad. I also don’t have the pain I had from poor alignment prior to correction. It took three years, was uncomfortable at times and annoying to have to floss all the time after eating. The lisp from wearing aligners does go away after a week or so. I found the most painful part was when they removed the attachments which are little buttons that they add to your teeth to hold the aligners in place. They use a drill to get them off, and my dentist had to give me a local anesthetic to do it. Others I know said it did not bother them. I would say find a good dentist or orthodontist- ask about their experience. If they tell you they can fix your teeth in six months, stay away. I saw several orthodontists before deciding on a plan and all of them told me that invisalign is almost always more than a year long process no matter what state your mouth is in. It’s worth doing for yourself whether it’s better dental health or appearance or both- go for it!

    9. Early 40s, finishing up a 15-tray treatment, really happy with results so far. I had braces in high school but stopped wearing retainers, and my teeth shifted so much I had significant overlapping (ugh). I have been changing trays every 2 weeks. There is a little bit of discomfort the first day on each new tray but totally manageable.

    10. My teeth started shifting in my mid-forties, so I am currently getting my teeth straightened with something called 3shape. No buttons, no rubber bands, just bioplast braces that is swapped out every 10 days. They click on without any issues, are easy to clean, take off and put on. Sometimes the edges can be a bit rough, scratching up the inside of my mouth, but they can be trimmed with scissors or ground down with a nail file.

    11. I had a good experience through a very experienced highly regarded orthodontist. But I would not do it with a dentist.

      Not everyone is a good candidate for invisalign. But many disreputable dentists will try to sell it to you anway. My orthodontist explained that to achieve my goals, I could do invisalign but would also need an implant to fill all the extra space in my lower jaw. It was a more complex treatment plan but I am super happy with my results.

      Also it takes way longer than advertised and longer than you expect. They often do additional fine-tuning stages.

  12. A low stakes question on this weird day. How much time do your parents and in-laws spend together? My ILs are local, parents are not but visit about 3 times a year. My husband always want to plan things with his parents when my parents visit, and often suggests joint vacations or trups. My parents like my in-laws just fine, but probably wouldn’t be friends if they weren’t related through us. They really like my husband though. They are also more introverted and private. They happy to do one dinner a year or something, but honestly a vacation or weekend would be way too much for them. I also feel like my ILs already get lots of one-on-one time with us since they live nearby, but my parents do not, and would rather spend time with us and our kids only. Husband is from a “the more the merrier” family culture, we are not. I think my paternal and maternal grandparents saw each other at my parents’ wedding and maybe once or twice after that? I know there is no absolute answer and every family is different, just wondering how different people approach this. I’m always gently pushing back and I think he is coming from a good place of wanting everyone to get along, but I also feel like his expectations are off on this.

    1. Zero, due in part to the fact that we always visit the parents and they don’t come visit us. Maybe that’s the solution here – have your parents host you for the one-on-one time they want?

    2. Basically none. Our wedding weekend and a couple of Thanksgivings we’ve hosted have been the only times they’ve met. But neither was local to us until my parents recently moved here, which was right around the time my FIL had knee replacement and stopped traveling.

      I agree with you that if one set of parents is local, the non-local ones should be prioritized when visiting and should only have to hang out with the other set if it’s something they truly want. If they want exclusive time with kids/spouse/grandkids they should get it.

    3. My parents and my inlaws spend almost zero time together aside from twice a year at events we host (Thanksgiving and July 4th). My inlaws are quieter, introverted and don’t live nearby. My brother’s inlaws spend a TON of time with my parents and invite them to all sorts of things. The difference is that they live in the same town and come from similar ‘the more the merrier’ cultures – think Italians/Greeks. If you already cook for an army and love a big boisterous house 2 more people are a rounding error. Plus my brother’s inlaws are quite a bit younger/more active vs. my inlaws who are a decade older than my parents. My parents/inlaws love it but both my brother and SIL have confessed it makes things exhausting for them at times as they rarely have one on one time with either side.

    4. If all of the grandparents are in town for a holiday or event (graduation, kid performance, etc.) then we all spend time together. Otherwise when my mom visits we focus our time on her, since my husband’s parents are local.

    5. Very little. Until recently, we lived far away from everyone. We just moved to my hometown, so on my in laws’s visit, we had one dinner together. My brother’s in laws are also local, so we see them more, at kid birthdays and some holidays, but I can’t imagine taking vacations together. We don’t really do vacations with parents (other than out of town visits), much less with in laws too.

    6. I’ve got a similar scenario, as my MIL is local and my parents are not. They are nice to each other and all, but would not be friends but for their kids being married. Ultimately, where we’ve landed, is that we invite my MIL to attend kid events when my parents are in town (ballet recitals, game, etc.), but otherwise, when my parents are in town, our time is theirs.

    7. Our family situations sound exactly the same, and our parental units do not interact in person like your husband is suggesting. If husband and I are hosting an event and they’re both invited they come and get along fine – (and they do like each other! Our respective mothers text the other sympathies and well wishes and cute grandchild videos) – but they’re not going to become besties, and making them spend more time together would probably put them more at odds because at heart, they do not have a lot in common, except for us. Luckily my husband doesn’t advocate for that kind of thing so it’s a non-issue.

    8. In my experience, and with observation of my friends, it is unusual for parents and in-laws to have much of a relationship. If everyone is in town, a glass of wine or a trip to a kid’s soccer game will happen, but that relationship is not nurtured or encouraged. Ok by me.

    10. Pretty rare. They live a flight apart, so have only seen each other at big life event type things (like they were each invited to our siblings’ weddings).

    11. Zero. My in laws met my parents at our wedding. All visits are separate. It is slightly different when one set of family is local, I think, such as bringing everyone together for holidays since it would be somewhat odd to exclude the local family. However, I think your husband is out of line here. Your parents are entitled to want time just with you and your husband when they visit, and not his family.

    12. My parents are local and my MIL is now seasonally local (snowbird, we live in the snow, ha). My parents all like my MIL and hang out with her separately when she is in town. MIL is invited to all my family’s stuff when she’s in town and she doesn’t always come. I think she is more introverted, her partner often does not come with her to our location, and all four of my siblings (3 of which are married with kids) are also local. In short, we are volume-wise and physically, a lot. That being said, my MIL gets tons of time with just our family because when she is here, she is less than a mile from us. My parents live about a 20-40 minute drive (depending on which parental units of mine we are talking about), and traffic is often an issue. So just based on convenience and ease, my MIL is with us more on a day-to-day level, whether it’s stopping by for dinner or babysitting, when she’s in town, which is less than 6 months/year.

    13. Hubs and I went to high school together and our parents still live in the same small town. We generally do not do holidays together but if it is something celebrating one of us (e.g., birthday, graduation, etc.) then it is a combined celebration. Mom and MIL also see each other when their lives overlap – e.g., both ended up in a kayaking and hiking phase and would sign up for the same activities at the community center. It’s basically at the same level as running into any of the parents of our high school friends that are still in town.

    14. Are you me? My mom is an 8 hour drive or a short flight away. My ILs are a 40 minute drive.

      There’s no right/wrong answer. We often do one meal at a restaurant if my mom is in town but not always. Spouse is understanding that if my mom’s visit is a short one I don’t alway want to do so and we just don’t schedule it. It helps that (1) everyone involved in our situation is not the type to take a weekend vacation away with anyone but themselves and (2) there are two particular restaurants that we all really like so it’s alway easy to find a spot.

    15. My mother wouldn’t even come to my MIL’s funeral because it required a long (7 hour) drive (flying would take just as long because neither my parents nor my ILs are close to an airport). So basically… never.

    16. A handful of times per year, usually for events that involve our kids. They all get along fine, but they don’t need to be best buddies!

    17. Follow up question (not OP) – my parents are local and my boyfriend’s parents are not. We’ve been dating for three years and they’ve never met. His family is coming in for Thanksgiving and my parents have suggested I host a joint Thanksgiving dinner so everyone can meet. Otherwise bf would do Thanksgiving with his family and I’d do a separate one with my parents. Our parents wouldn’t be friends in real life, but everyone can be nice for a couple of hours over dinner. He seems a little reluctant to ask his family about a joint Thanksgiving – is this a bad idea? Are we being weird for suggesting it or is it normal for my parents to want to meet his family and try to start feeling like a bigger family?

      1. I don’t think it’s weird to meet bur maybe leftovers sandwiches on Friday would work? Or a late Thursday walk and dessert? it sounds like maybe something about his existing traditions for Thanksgiving is important to your bf (and you two will eventually need to figure that out; I just wouldn’t double it up with the stress of “first meeting the family”)

      2. I would find that weird. They will not be a “bigger family.” You will be a joint link between two families. Don’t force them together. Do two thanksgivings.

      3. I think it depend what his parents would otherwise do for Thanksgiving. If they’d just be having it with him, then you should invite them to your place and have everyone together. If they normally host a big meal themselves with his siblings or other family or friends, then they should have their normal Thanksgiving and you should have them over for leftovers or something casual or a meal out somewhere with your parents on Friday.

      4. so my grandmothers despite being VERY different from one another spent a decent amount of time together for the early part of my childhood bc my family lived in NYC, one grandmother was in Brooklyn and one in Westchester and they also used to talk on the phone. They would see each other for kid birthdays, mothers day, school performances, etc. apparently they even shared our pull out couch a few times to watch my sister and i.

        my ILs are more self centered people and while my MIL claims family is important to her she doesn’t like to go out of her way to do anything for anyone. my dad did reach out to them (my mom has passed away) when he was visiting a friend who lives near them to meet for dinner and he said they had a nice dinner. In July my SIL had a baby and my dad texted my inlaws congratulations. However, when my sister had a baby in September, my in laws never reached out to my dad and my dad in fact just asked me earlier this week if they knew she had a baby.

        I guess I am kind of like your husband in ‘the more the merrier’ culture – I do think absent some kind of hatred of each other it is perhaps nice to see your in-laws for one meal while your parents visit, so for like 2-3 hours of their visit, but more than that is unnecessary. or if kiddo has a soccer game or whatever and everyone attends the soccer game, great, and then you can spend the time with your family. there is a lot of space between a joint trip and not seeing each other at all when your parents visit.

      5. i do think it s nice for them to meet, but what about brunch on Friday? i don’t think it has to be for Thanksgiving itself. It is not weird for your parents to want to meet his family. this idea of “feeling like a bigger family” will really vary depending on everyone’s attitudes

      7. Maybe he thinks you should be getting married before trying to integrate your families. (Why aren’t you married after three years?)

    18. so my grandmothers despite being VERY different from one another spent a decent amount of time together for the early part of my childhood bc my family lived in NYC, one grandmother was in Brooklyn and one in Westchester and they also used to talk on the phone. They would see each other for kid birthdays, mothers day, school performances, etc. apparently they even shared our pull out couch a few times to watch my sister and i.

      my ILs are more self centered people and while my MIL claims family is important to her she doesn’t like to go out of her way to do anything for anyone. my dad did reach out to them (my mom has passed away) when he was visiting a friend who lives near them to meet for dinner and he said they had a nice dinner. In July my SIL had a baby and my dad texted my inlaws congratulations. However, when my sister had a baby in September, my in laws never reached out to my dad and my dad in fact just asked me earlier this week if they knew she had a baby.

      I guess I am kind of like your husband in ‘the more the merrier’ culture – I do think absent some kind of hatred of each other it is perhaps nice to see your in-laws for one meal while your parents visit, so for like 2-3 hours of their visit, but more than that is unnecessary. or if kiddo has a soccer game or whatever and everyone attends the soccer game, great, and then you can spend the time with your family. there is a lot of space between a joint trip and not seeing each other at all when your parents visit.

  13. Tips on managing a shared inbox for a volunteer org? Because we’re both volunteers, there aren’t generally defined hours when we’re working and, while we each have some discrete defined tasks, emails often fall outside of either of our task lists.

    1. What problem are you trying to solve here — the problem that some emails are being ignored and nobody answers them? Is it that you’re both happy to deal with the emails, but you don’t know who is supposed to do it? Or that neither of you want to deal with them?

      1. The main problem is that I’m responding to 90% of them and I don’t have the bandwidth to continue. As a result, some things also wait a long time for a response.

        1. Is there a way you can say that to your fellow volunteer, or someone else in the organization, “I’ve been doing ___, and I just don’t have the bandwidth to keep on doing it.”?

    3. i think there are ways to make to do lists out of emails – or i would split them into four main categories and you each take two.

      you might also want to come up with an autoresponder that says something like hi, we’re a small org so it may take us (X time) to get back to you. in the meantime here are a few answers to some frequently asked questions.

    1. If you have ten days is better ( I was there 18 days, but Im an european). Whith 7 days there you could go 2 Hanoy (including Halong bay) 2 Sapa 1 Hoi Ann 1 Hue. 10 days add Saigon and Mekong river.

      Halong bay is one of the most beautifull places I have seen in the world

      1. My daughter was in Halong Bay this summer. She has traveled a ton and says it is the single most beautiful place she has ever seen.

        1. Ha Long Bay is gorgeous once you get away from the port, but omg was the level of trash at the dock depressing! I highly recommend an overnight boat tour/cruise there, but do some research to find a responsible operator. I was there 7+ years ago, so no specific recommendations.

          I agree 10 days if you can swing it. I don’t remember exactly how long I was there, but it was between 7 and 10 days and I only saw the northern part of the country, specifically Hanoi, Sapa Valley, and Ha Long Bay. I would not have wanted to travel North to South in that much time, or try to cram in more stops, but my travel style tends to be more slow/exploring than See All The Things. I was deliriously jet lagged to the point that I couldn’t fully enjoy the first couple days coming from EST (my traveling buddies coming from Korea had not built that into the itinerary), so be sure to factor that in.

        2. I highly recommend spending 2 or even three nights on Ha Long Bay. It’s so beautiful and relaxing and there is so much to see.

          1. Check first. Ha Long Bay sustained damage during the typhoon in September. I recently spent a week on Cát Bà and the trash and murk in the water was disappointing. (The landscape remains spectacular.)

    2. 10 days if you want to traverse the breadth of the country without feeling rushed. We haven’t been back since 2010, and things change rapidly, but back then domestic flights were very cheap. This enabled us to spend more time where we wanted to instead of all of our time driving. And we hired a driver for a stretch that we particularly wanted to see by land (I think it was Hanoi to Danang to Hue and/or Hoi An).

    3. Where do you live? The flights and jet lag are rough. Personally, I would make the trip at least 10 days. Driving anywhere takes longer than one would think. I second the recommendation to add some domestic flights into the mix to save time and cover more territory.

      1. Counterpoint, the jetlag was easier for me than going to Europe (from eastern US time). In Europe you normally arrive sometime between 6 am and noon local time, and either nap, which f*cks with your sleep schedule, or spend an entire day dragging yourself around in a zombie like state. When we went to Thailand, which is the same time zone as Vietnam, we arrived at around midnight local time and went right to sleep and when we woke up we were basically on the new time. I don’t remember the exact details of coming home, but it wasn’t bad either. On the whole it actually shocked me how much easier it was than going to Europe.

    4. I’d definitely do 10 days if you can spare the time. Also if you need a travel agent I have a great one who specializes in Viet Nam.

  15. I would like to start volunteering – something like, soup kitchen, habitat for humanity. I’d prefer something I can go regularly, like once a week. I’m having trouble finding these in my county. I see food pantries but they want monthly group signups. I know habitat takes volunteers but it is more seasonal here. Years ago, I volunteered in schools, but I got sick all the time (childfree) and I’d rather spare my immune system. I would prefer not to volunteer at a church unless it has a non-religious-focus (i.e., feeding people, not “meal if you come to service”). My chapter of Junior League only does a quarterly volunteer project now, my womens attorney group does a fundraiser but that is it. Any ideas for how to find this type of org.?

    1. Ask whoever at your Junior League chapter organizes the volunteer efforts. That person surely has information about needs in your area, and can point you toward a connection point where you can find what you’re looking for.

    2. My region has a robust program that packages take-home sack meals for school aged children who experience food insecurity. It is year round and encompasses multiple counties. They have regular volunteer shifts scheduled in one-hour blocks throughout the day. You can go daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, and while they usually have groups that pack lunches together, there is often an individual volunteer at any given shift. It used to be drop-in but there are so many volunteers that they do have an online sign up for the shifts now. Does your area have anything like that?

    3. Dog walking at an animal shelter
      Visiting patients at a nursing home
      Picking up trash in a local park (if you don’t need the social aspect)
      Volunteer shifts at your community library
      Local political parties if that’s your thing – the work volunteers do outside election season forms the basis for election season organizing (and many have elections in fall 2025 that are gearing up soon)

    4. See if there’s a chapter of Food not Bombs. The one in my last city was doing really good work meeting needs of people who were falling in the cracks of other service orgs.
      Their once per week meal shares were open to anyone and everyone, to help, receive food/supplies or a bit of both.

      1. I was just about the suggest food not bombs! One of the most ethical groups out there.

    5. If you are an attorney, maybe look into orgs dedicated to helping survivors of intimate partner violence (r*pe, DV, etc). Could accompanying survivors to court/police precinct or filing restraining orders. Sometimes these orgs have walk-in office hours for people to seek advice.
      If you post your general region, people may have more ideas.
      On the off chance you are in the Bay area: https://www.roclinic.org/#:~:text=The%20Cooperative%20Restraining%20Order%20Clinic,domestic%20violence%2C%20and%20stalking%20survivors.

    6. This would be easier to answer if we knew where you live. Where I live, I would refer you to our closest interfaith community organization. Because it is a group of religious organization (Christian of all stripes, Jewish, Muslim) the services they provide are free from proselytizing.

      But also (speaking for my own Church and several others we partner with), our community services are never accompanied by any requirement to attend services. As you noted, a lot of organizations prefer to work with groups because that results in more reliable coverage. They do not need to worry about someone not showing up because they are sick, on vacation, or flaky. The other people in the group will cover. My church just puts together the group, which then goes to the location where our help is needed. For the one I participate in, we show up, we cook and serve food, we clean up, and we leave. If someone asks where we are from, we will tell them, but we do not even pray before the meal. So if you cannot find anything else, it would be worth asking the food pantry which groups they work with and then see if they accept non-members (I promise they probably do).

    8. Try Big Brothers Big Sisters! I generally meet up with my Little Sister every other Sunday for 2-4 hours and do all kinds of things from going to the art museum to sitting on my living room floor working on a puzzle. On Tuesday she came over and we made apple turnovers together since we didn’t have work/school.
      We’ve been matched for the last 6 years! Its truly the most rewarding thing that I do.

    10. League of Women Voters in your area.
      Local hospice organization. I used to do once a week.
      Look for your local literacy programs, and start helping teach English to new immigrants.

    11. I’ve found good volunteer opportunities on justserve.org The platform is sponsored by a church, but the volunteer opportunities can be organized by individuals, charities, other churches, local governmental bodies, etc. I imagine there are some areas of the world where it doesn’t get a lot of use, but every part of the US I’ve lived in there have been a reasonable variety of opportunities posted.

  16. I’m looking to treat myself to a nice pair of dress shoes. Which brands are we recommending for COMFORT?

    1. I just received the Kate Spade Bowdie leather pumps. Wearing them around the house today to make sure I’m keeping them. Very comfortable so far.

  17. If you are a lawyer with a low stress job, what do you do and how did you get there?

    I’m seriously reconsidering some life choices.

    1. i am a lawyer and have priotized low stress jobs. don’t know where you live but NYC and NYS have a lot of administrative jobs, can be low stress. I had one of those for awhile. Another that i have done is a court attorney. Currently i work in the GCs office of a university. All pretty low stress..

      1. another one that i know people used to do was work for westlaw…. they wants lawyers but you’re basically just doing trainings and customer service.

      2. I am in NYC and would LOVE to hear what administrative city/state jobs you’ve found that are low stress. Happy to email if you post a burner.

        1. i worked at the DOE. there’s a lot of volume and a lot of noise but ultimately you control the stress level, lot of vacation time, people take lunch…. oath is a pretty good gig, i hear.

    2. Trusts and estates. By a combination of good timing and a bit of effort (i.e., picking a firm for 2L summer that had a good T&E department), I was fortunate to end up in T&E as soon as I finished law school. There is no way I would still work at a big law firm if I were in any other department.

    3. I have a big lawyer job but it’s not stressful because I don’t let it be. A lot of whether a job is stressful or not is in how you approach it.

      1. +1 I in house and there are certainly other stressed out lawyers in our department, but I just don’t let it be. I maybe work 42 hrs a week (and I have to time charge so my boss sees it) and I am very good at managing my client’s expectations. I also don’t get sucked into the fervor when the client gets worked up about something. I don’t save lives. *shrug*

        Whatever I am doing works bc I get excellent reviews and am well regarded with my clients so . . .

    5. I’m in-house and I do transactional work. The work is smaller scale contracts that are routine for the company, not big M&A deals, we use outside counsel for our more one-off large deals. I came from big law and when I went in-house I knew that it would only be worth it to take the salary cut if I got good work-life balance in return, so I was really focused on company culture when I was interviewing. I got lucky and my legal department does not have a butts in seats culture and my boss thinks it’s great if I’m efficient and can get all my work done in fewer hours than 9-5. I know our peer companies in my city don’t have as relaxed cultures, so if I wasn’t so focused on company culture at the interview stage I could’ve easily ended up somewhere doing the same type of work I do now but in a more stressful environment.

    6. The best law job I ever had was as a judicial attorney (aka career clerk) for my state Court of Appeal. I always said being a lawyer would be the best job in the world if it weren’t for clients and opposing counsel, and that’s basically what this job was. I ghost-wrote the opinions for the justice and it was interesting and regular hours and no stress.

        1. Government pensions are not necessarily so great these days. I work for my state, and we contribute over 6% of gross income to our pension, which is the same amount the state contributes. It’s not all that much different from a 401-K with a really good match, except that the state takes on some (tho not all) of the investment risk.

          1. ^^I’ll note that I love my job, and am happy to have the pension. But I’ve been told my relatively lower salary is worth a lot more because of my pension, and that’s just not true.

          2. Agree. I enjoyed my state appellate clerkship and there was good work-life balance, but I literally quadrupled my salary (not including bonus and benefits) being in-house. In my state, state government attorney salaries just aren’t great.

  18. I live in a deeply red state and my husband and I have finally acknowledged we’re done. We’re going to accept that “the states decide” and move to a state that supports our values. I’m pretty devastated by this. This is our home. I’m a pediatrician and truly feel like it’s my life’s work to serve and I’ll be abandoning my patients.

    1. You’re not abandoning your patients, their parents did. You did not take any of the actions that lead to this mess it’s not your responsibility to keep the wheels on.

      1. I hate this attitude that their parents did something wrong. Even in the reddest red states ~40% of people voted for Democrats.

        1. I think she’s saying that the parents should vote with their feet, or just leave and start a better life for their kids.

          1. But that’s hard to do for a lot of people. Jobs don’t materialize out of thin air and lots of people are tied to a specific state for family or personal reasons. And honestly. my kid has a far better quality of life in our red state than she would in pretty much any blue state except for maybe a few of the more rural ones like Vermont that don’t have a ton of job opportunities. Our public schools are amazing, our light blue city is very safe, diverse and accepting and the cost of living is incredibly low, which is allowing us to save buckets of money for our kid’s college. Yes, state politics are bad, but things will only get worse if all the left-leaning people leave, and yes we would reevaluate if our kid comes out to us as trans but for right now as a white, upper middle class, presumed cis family, our quality of life here is fantastic.

    2. If our population has taught us anything, it is – look out for yourself. If it is better for you to get out of a deep red state, get out. You can find work anywhere as a dr. and you’ll have more patient parents who may actually believe in science, vaccines etc. Where are you thinking of going?

      1. We don’t have ties to any other cities/states so we don’t know yet (if anyone has opinions please share!). We have 2 very young kids and the decimation of the department of education and public health terrifies me.

        1. If you’re ok with cold, Massachusetts. It’s pricey so you will get older and less house than you would in pretty much any red state. But amazing healthcare and public schools.

        2. My daughter moved to Portland, OR a few years ago and, bad press notwistanding, she feels like she’s died and gone to heaven.

          1. i visited Portland and it’s the one city i’ve ever visited i have no interest in ever going back to

          2. +1. My cousin moved out of Oklahoma to Portland OR and is much, much happier there.

        3. Virginia. Excellent public college system, lower taxes (in comparison to Maryland and DC). Depending on what line of work your husband is in, Charlottesville might be a lovely place to raise a family. Housing in northern Virginia is eye-wateringly costly, but it can be done. Or North Carolina — consider Charlotte or Wilmington or the Research Triangle. Or Delaware. Good luck!

          1. Virginia isn’t really what I’d call a blue state. Yes, it’s voted for the Dem in the last I don’t know how many presidential elections, but it’s been ground zero for the school culture wars and the the state government is far more Republican than that of Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina or Arizona, which are all considered swing states and all voted for Trump. The school culture wars would especially worry me with kids. My deep red state doesn’t have the same degree of hostile takeover by Moms for Liberty that Virginia does.

        4. where are you now? what is important to you in terms of access to nature, temperatures, religious community, etc. or any other factors? which values are important to you?

          if you are ok with cold, i’d consider the minneapolis area. if you are willing to consider a more purple state (who could most certainly use your votes!), I’d consider NC or PA. I think you can find communities/areas within those purple states that align with your values.

          1. We live in the Midwest. Cost of living is probably going to be a consideration for us, as well as climate change. I’m probably going to nix-nay purple states. I only want to uproot once and there’s too much uncertainty there. We’re fine with cold, are atheists (and want to be able to find community without religion) and care more about walkability than nature.

          2. I’m from PA and know NC well, they are definitely NOT blue outside of the major population centers like Phila, mainline suburbs, Raleigh and triangle suburbs, and Charlotte. I know you can pick and choose where you live so you are only in blue areas and your kids attend those schools but keep in mind that a lot of things are done at the state level and often there can be resentments of blue areas getting more so that holds things back in blue areas – I’m thinking education, pandemic response etc. If you want to go to a blue state, I’d go to a fully blue state, not a purple one hoping it turns blue only to find out that’s not happening.

          3. If you’re already in the Midwest, I’d suggest MN. I grew up here, have lived all over and then moved back. It’s not as strongly blue as MA or CA, but the cost of living is much lower and the Twin Cities are very liberal (actually more liberal than the part of CA I used to live in). There’s plenty of Mpls and St. Paul that’s reasonably walkable (in addition to lots of parks and nature). It’s not NYC walkable, but not you’re also not paying NYC prices.

        5. Maryland! My family moved from FL to Maryland a few years ago, and we love it. Yes, it is expensive, but my kids actually get a good education, my community is diverse and accepting, and it has 4 seasons. It’s also solidly blue, but in a reasonable way.

          1. We love Maryland! Montgomery County is like 10% Jewish, and so are we, and it’s so nice to be somewhere where it feels like non-Christian perspectives are considered and celebrated (we were in Texas previously).

          2. I have lived in Montgomery County, MD for the last 15+ years, and overall I really love it, but I dispute the 4 seasons thing as a former Midwesterner. In the DC burbs, you only get winter sporadically, and not every year.

        6. Might I recommend Michigan? Lots of really good school districts in the suburbs and our state government has been blue for the last few years. We got rid of gerrymandering for state government districts and both state house and senate were blue until yesterday (now its just the senate). And its still a swing state (unfortunately) so your vote will weigh more here.

          1. Washtenaw County! Two big health care systems, plus Ann Arbor and the surrounding ring of towns are very blue with good schools.

    3. You’ll be helping new kids see their doctor more quickly and get access to care they might not have! There are shortages of pediatricians in blue states too.

      I live in New England and love it here. It’s definitely under-appreciated as regions go and doesn’t suffer the ill effects of climate change nearly as much as other regions.

    4. I think you are making the right decision. It’s hard knowing that you are disappointing people, but the issues here are important enough that people need to show disapproval somehow. I’m not an American, but I am boycotting all travel to the US during Trump’s term (again) and avoiding American retailers as much as possible. I know action like this (if others do the same) might hurt some of the wonderful Americans who voted for Kamala and supported her campaign. But I feel I need to make my disapproval known in some way.

      4 years of Boden (UK version), Aritzia and Lululemon ahead.

    5. Chicago is great and has a low cost of living for a major city. Minneapolis-St. Paul too. If you’re a doctor, I’m guessing you can work anywhere and if so I’d also look at northern New England, especially Vermont and Maine. If we weren’t tied down by jobs and family I’d move to Portland, Maine in a heartbeat and I still dream of doing that in retirement.

      Massachusetts and the major west coast cities are horrendously expensive, DC and the mid-Atlantic less so but are still much more expensive than the Midwest and northern New England. Traffic and homelessness are also bigger problems on the west coast.

    6. I hear you.

      Just take note – there are still many like you in your state. And part of the Republican long term plan is to do exactly this…. drive as many blue voters out of red states as possible to ensure they become even more red. As a result, the electoral college bias will keep the Presidency red long term.

      1. I mostly agree with your point, but if she’s a reliably red state and moves to a reliably blue state it won’t affect the electoral map. She could even help the electoral college map by moving somewhere like Michigan that is swingy in presidential races but has solidly Democratic state leadership. It sounds like she wants to move somewhere more reliably blue though.

        1. She could also stay in state or region but move to a university town. Assuming it’s not Bob Jones university, you’d be around more like minded people.

  19. Ignore me if this was already asked yesterday as I did not have the energy to read here, but are people doing anything to prepare for the upcoming four years? I’m sure women’s health has been covered – getting an IUD if you want one or stocking up on Plan B, but I mean other than that?

    I will be getting covid and flu vaccines as I always do in the winter but also because we don’t know if those will be around next year so may as well get them this time. Should I re- up things like a tetanus shot? With RFK looming I assume those ordinary preventative things will be considered unnecessary and harder to get? The tetanus shot also has the DPT vax in it so it seems good to have though I’d need a dr to tell me if you can get it early if you’re not due for another two or so years.

    Planning to buy masks for me but also my parents and family who will eyeroll about this now, but H5N1 is already looming and the current CDC is softly warning about it. A lot of our mask supply comes from China, so if there’s pandemic denial along with a trade war with China, I don’t expect to be able to get N95s if we need them.

    I know someone above mentioned a gun but for me that’s a no go. I respect people who can do that but I’m too scared of a firearm in my space. What else?

    1. You’re still going to be able to get a tetanus shot in the future, but if you’re very anxious about it there are no health concerns about getting one early.

    2. I really wouldn’t be concerned about getting a tetanus shot in 2 years, but if you haven’t had a pertussis booster as a teen or adult, you should get it, as whooping cough outbreaks happen all the time, but you only need it once. Likewise, it’s always a good idea to have a mask stockpile around. They’ve always been part of our emergency supplies, mostly due to wildfires or for doing work on the house, but now also for pandemics. I’m not doing anything different because of the election results, but it’s always good to be prepared.

    3. I think it’s a good idea to get any vaccines that are recommended (a lot of people have not gotten all the recommended adult vaccines, but the CDC has a page outlining what is recommended for whom).

    4. i’m in my slap happy nihilistic phase so take this with a grain of salt, but
      – consider buying banned books in paperback or hard cover so physical copies exist
      – if you’re thinking about getting pregnant start TTC, now is probably the safest and cheapest it’s going to be to have a baby for the next 5+ years.
      – if you’re a single woman consider having your father or another man you trust as joint owner on your accounts

      with the flu i’ve also heard that we should start hoarding antibiotics, so if you have something a doctor might prescribe antibiotics for (or you might beat on your own) then get the antibiotics and store them.

      1. Who are these people who can just get antibiotics? None of my providers would write a prescription for multiple refills, much less one prescription for a single supply without it being indicated (like Tamiflu for someone who doesn’t have positive flu result).
        Is this common practice?

        1. Same. No way my doctor nor any of the other doctors in her practice would give me antibiotics just to have them in case. Are people getting them online or something?

        2. I usually have a broad-spectrum antibiotic prescription around because my doctor will write me one if I am travelling somewhere I might have difficulty accessing them. And I travel a lot.

        4. Not that poster, but in many other countries they’re over the counter. I usually buy some when I travel just to have in hand so I can avoid going to the doctor for minor bacterial stuff like UTIs and sinus infections. I don’t take them for viral illness like Covid and flu.

          1. I’m not the poster who said that but I can’t get the flu without getting bronchitis, and two times it was even pneumonia. I’m not stockpiling antibiotics, personally, I get flu shots for this reason. But I suppose if I thought everything was going to shut down I much consider it. People were stockpiling Cipro during the Anthrax scare way back when.

      2. Also – I realize the impulse to plan for the worst-case scenario, but please do not put your father (or any other “man you trust” on your bank accounts. The chances he will end up in a nursing home and Medicaid will view that as his property to be used for his care is much higher than the chance that we suddenly find ourselves living under the Taliban. And that does not even account for dishonesty, drug use, adverse judgments, divorce or the myriads of other everyday scenarios where that would be a disaster.

        1. Yeah I was going to say the same. Man you trust? Like what a friend? You’ve got to be kidding me if I’d put any friend on any bank or investment account I own. Sorry but I don’t trust any of my friends esp male friends that much. And no my brothers, nephews, or cousins don’t get access to my earnings just because they were born with the pencil. I guess you have way more faith than me that any man would simply be ok being a name on the account but wouldn’t try to use your funds in any way – because I think most would once they realize their lowly single friend, sister, or cousin has sooo much and they just need a bit more to buy the house or sports car they so richly deserve.

        1. You don’t (and shouldn’t) take antibiotics for influenza, but I thought most influenza mortality was historically from opportunistic bacterial infections (which are treated with antibiotics but not just whatever you have lying around!! and you’d be in the hospital w/pneumonia at that point).

    5. Definitely masks. Good call on getting them for family too, as I’d need some larger sizes to share with the men who would eyeroll right now if I told them to buy. I do think H5N1 could end up being a big issue and some of the stats on it are really really bad. And this administration would have zero interest in making sure the public has masks in any timely way.

      Other than that just stacking cash and working on my side hustle, but that’s more because I work at a fed agency that Elon will likely target so if our employment protections don’t hold, job searching with a zillion peers also looking will take forever. And mourning that my hope of buying a house is even further away. I already feel like I’ve waited too long and now with job instability for years, I can’t jump in anyway. I know people everywhere from NYC to Hong Kong live their whole lives in apartments and it’s ok but I’m still sad as I always hoped to have my own bigger place with a bit of outdoors and now I’ll be nearly 50 by the time it happens if it even does.

      1. Do you mean stacking cash at home or stacking cash in a basic savings account? I’m always on the fence about having cash at home.

        1. Sorry I didn’t mean actual cash in my house, I just meant I kicked up the savings and investing rate a ton about a year ago when I knew Trump was a possibility but I am not really ready to get out there and find another job, go prove myself at a new place, so I figured set myself up just in case.

          Though I will say people should be mindful of FDIC limits. I haven’t heard this administration say anything about that but please don’t be sitting with too much in one account because who knows how efficient they’ll be in rescuing should anything go wrong. That’s generally true but certainly for this administration that could care less.

    6. I decided to do a shopping ban, in part to make myself feel like I’m doing something, and in part to help shore up reserves.

  20. I posted yesterday about my elderly cat with kidney disease. Thanks to all for the encouragement! Someone asked about current care for kitty but I didn’t see it yesterday so I wanted to respond –

    We got the diagnosis about 4 weeks ago. One morning he was making repeated trips to the litter box but wasn’t producing anything. The little bit of urine he produced was red tinged. We rushed him to kitty ER (it was on a weekend) because I was worried he had a blockage, which he’s had before, and is fatal in under 24 hours. He wasn’t blocked thankfully. They ran bloodwork which showed the kidney values indicating stage 2 or 3 kidney disease. He has a history of GI issues that caused rapid weight loss, so he was already on a Rx diet and an anti-nausea med (serenia (sp?)). All of these comorbidities masked the kidney issues. We just had his bloodwork done 4 months ago and it was fine, so that shows you how quickly these things can arise.

    Right now he’s getting:
    – subcutaneous fluids daily at home
    – daily anti-nausea meds orally (serenia (sp?))
    – potassium supplement, which is a paste by mouth (renal K)
    – a mild sedative at the lowest possible dose at night to help him sleep and pain for his arthritic hips (we can’t give him pain meds without tanking his kidneys)
    – we have like three different Rx foods for him now, Hills W/D, I/D, and K/D. He shows limited interest in that. He likes the kitten’s food, which he’s not supposed to eat. He’ll sometimes eat chicken, tuna, and he always begs for food while we’re eating. At this point we just feed him what he’ll eat. If he doesn’t eat then I syringe feed him, which he hates.
    – Naraquin mixed into his food, which helps his red blood cell count
    – kitty electrolytes (purina hydra care) that he usually doesn’t drink but the kitten loves, so sometimes he’ll get jealous of the kitten and actually drink it.
    – churu treat sticks, which he only sometimes eats
    – two water fountains so he drinks a lot of water

    He’s much perkier when he actually takes all the supplements he’s supposed to. He shows interest in toys and sitting in windows and getting scritches. He’s even asked to go outside a few times, which is unlike him (he just plops on the doorstep, there is no danger of him running away). I’m sort of waiting for him to tell me when it’s time. I have a list of vets who can do home visits. But as long as he wants to live I will do what I can for him.

    1. It’s spelled Cerenia. Ondansetron is another option if Cerenia isn’t controlling the nausea well enough. Cerenia can reduce appetite while Ondansetron is better in my experience for getting them to eat. My cat’s GI issue that caused sudden weight loss was IBD/SCL, and B12 shots helped with red blood cell count and QoL and weren’t oral. Fluids help so much!

    2. Though I guess B12 shots may not be an option with kidney disease unless the dose is small! But if it’s the equivalent of the supplement it could be something to ask about. I am glad he’s enjoying his days still.

    3. Thank you! I am so happy for you and your guy. It is an overwhelming diagnosis, and we’re on about the same pathway as you. Got the diagnosis about 5 or 6 weeks ago. Our guy also has an intestinal chronic illness diagnosed at the same time, so we have a steroid added in to help that issue as well, which combined with the serenia helps his appetite a lot.
      We just started a B12 shot weekly, and it is too soon to tell, but it is not hurting at all. We also use a phosphorus binder in his food twice a day which is supposed to help the non-Rx food be easier on his body. we are doing half Rx food and half regular with the binder food.
      I am going to ask our vet about the electrolytes and potassium supplements, those sound interesting.
      We could tell our guy was getting perkier when he started throwing his weight around with his brother again. Cats are so good at hiding their pain. Especially when they slow down with age and just laze around all day. Looking back I can tell that his energy levels were way down, but at the time it just seemed like normal napping patterns.
      Thanks again! It sounds like your fella will be able to enjoy his golden days as much as possible.

      1. Oh, and we also use an appetite enhancer called Miritaz (not sure of spelling). It is a gel that gets smeared on the inside of his ear and it helps when he isn’t super feeling food. If you haven’t given that a shot you might ask your vet for it.
        I always wear gloves when applying it.

    4. Thank you for the update. My senior cat also has kidney disease and is on subcutaneous fluids daily at home. For arthritis pain, she’s on monthly injections of Solensia, bi-weekly injections of Adequan, and daily Antinol capsules. Just sharing in case you decide your kitty needs more help with pain management. I wish him (and you!) the best.

  21. How do I stop myself from speaking up in meetings? Mostly on zoom but also in person.

      1. Already muting.

        I need to stop talking because nobody wants to hear what I have to say so it makes me look like an idiot.

        1. The real problem isn’t that you’re talking, then, it’s that you’re saying things people don’t want to hear. maybe write down your observation instead of saying it out loud, and then listen to where to conversation goes next (assuming intelligent people you respect are contributing). Notice whether your comment was relevant, constructive, or insightful given where others wanted to take the conversation. If no, this exercise will help you identify what types of contributions will be welcome in the future. If yes, focus on your delivery. If you speak up, get right to the point, and then stop to let others respond. As long as you don’t monopolize the time, no one will begrudge your input. Unless they’re jerks, in which case, find a new job.

    2. I mean, then stop?

      What’s the impetus for you talking? Are you nervous? Are there silences you jump into fill? I think you need to know that before you can figure out a solution.

      1. The motivation for speaking is that I have relevant knowledge and expertise and a different perspective.

        2. Is speaking up necessary to your role? Can you reframe your statements so they facilitate the thing at hand rather than become roadblocks?

        3. write a post-it note for yourself for what their biggest one or two concerns are, such as MONEY. before you speak, look at the postcard and try to figure out how to frame what you’re about to say from the position of someone who cares about money. how will this help meet that goal? if it will save costs in the long run that’s your first argument to do things your way, even if it’s the fifth reason to do it from an expertise perspective.

        4. Time to do some pre-meeting networking then. Who are the 1-2 people that most need to hear what you have to say? Briefing them quietly offline could help you move from “ugh anon is always contradicting me in front of XYZ” to “oh that was nice anon gave me the heads up so I could be prepared for that meeting”?

    3. Start off on mute, so you have to affirmatively unmute. Move your mouse away so you have to reach out to click. Concentrate on taking notes. Be more disinterested. Make yourself wait to speak up until after _____ [so many other people contribute/topic starts to moves on but no one has addressed x/someone asks for comments/boss weighs in/etc].

    4. This is confusing. Nobody wants to listen to you and you think they think you’re an idiot, but you have expertise they need? If they’re truly not going to listen to you, then stop going to these meetings, there’s no point. If they’re supposed to be listening to you, then your goal should not be to stop talking, it should be to talk so they listen. And based on your communications here, I think you could probably improve a bit!

    5. Perhaps read the room and follow a personal rule that if questions or comments are not invited by the moderator, then they are unwelcome, and you don’t need to contribute even if you feel you have a helpful idea to offer. Also, if you are concerned that others might get the wrong idea about you if you don’t pipe up, remember that silence doesn’t mean consent or concurrence. You can sit there disagreeing with everything that is being said, and not speaking up does not mean you are forever responsible for that content, and you don’t have to make it abundantly clear that you do not concur. Just the act of posing questions or making comments during a meeting can inspire hostility from colleagues, who may have schedules to meet and things to do and frown on anyone else causing a the meeting to go on longer. Good luck!

  22. For those of you who are considering making life changes due to this election, how much are you listening to your loved ones who are saying oh its NBD, you’re crazy, whatever. I’m talking like leaving your job if you work for fed government, moving from a red to blue state, leaving the country for a few years, personal healthcare things though I realize those aren’t always openly discussed. I mean obviously spouses need to agree on stuff but say you and your spouse are in agreement that you won’t stay in your jobs or in a red state or whatever and your well meaning parents and inlaws are telling you it’s NBD – do you ignore? Explain? Assume that the well meaning parents here are NOT DJT people, they just don’t want to see their kids move or sell a house or make what they think is a career mistake or whatever. I’m thinking this is where adults need to be adults. DH OTOH I know will very much consider parental opinion, even my parents.

    1. Well, your parents aren’t the ones who might die from a miscarriage in a red state, so…

    2. On this stuff it’s always been my view that it’s fine if your parents or inlaws are sad about their kids moving or giving up what they see as a prestigious job or whatever but they were able to live their lives how they saw fit and make their own professional, personal, and health decisions, and now as adults DH and I get to do the same for ourselves. Unless they are paying my bills via a trust fund enabling me not to work, they don’t get a say on where we work or where we live.

    3. This 100% depends on your relationship with these kinds of family members, but generally speaking I wouldn’t let there be a debate on the topic. Don’t talk about it until you say “we’re moving to X in 3 months” or whatever and then don’t allow discussion. My parents already think they get a say in my life decisions, so I learned a long time ago to tell them what I am doing, not ask, and even better tell them after the fact.

    4. If you’re ranting about moving to your parents, they’re going to see it as overly dramatic right now. Make your decision, but make it before telling them.

      1. This. I have a college-aged daughter who will regularly call or text to rant about things that she has zero intention of actually doing anything about. She just wants me to listen passively and be her emotional garbage dumpster. Your parents probably assume you are doing the same. As an actual adult I have always just made my decisions and then informed my mother.

    5. I am really looking at fleeing to New Zealand, whereas my husband is (understandably) reluctant to leave his home and lifetime of friends when he doesn’t think we will actually be affected all that much by the coming sh!tshow. I don’t disagree that we as retired wealthy white Boomers will likely not be harmed, but my thing is “what am I willing to stand by and be a party to?” At this point we are “wait and see.”

      If I were of childbearing age in a red state you’d better believe I would be making a real exit plan and informing the well-meaning interferers after the fact.

      1. It’s leaving much more “standing by and being a party to” than staying and fighting?

    6. I’m the above mover and honestly, this isn’t something I’m going to discuss with anyone other than my spouse (and apparently an anonymous message board) unless I’m seeking some specific expertise. I just truly don’t see the point- it’s our lives, they don’t get a say in the matter. It’s going to be presented as fact once it’s in motion, and honestly probably as “Anon got a job so we’re moving.”

      1. Also, thinking on this a little more- I think the key word here is expertise. I’m probably usually more on your husband’s side of “crowdsourcing my life” (not being said sarcastically!). My In-Laws and parents have a combined 80 years of marriage, 7 children and 9 grandchildren. They have a lot of expertise! I’m happy to have a lot of their advice. They just don’t have more expertise than I do on this topic, so it won’t be one I’m discussing.

    8. Just yesterday my parents told me there’s no reason to leave the country, it’s not going to be that bad. While also saying – why would you go to the islands to not work for a while, you could just stay in DC and not work for a while. Sure – DC definitely has that Costa Rican vibe and cost of living. So yeah I’m not asking them whether I should quit the federal government or move.

    9. As with anything, consider who the decision-makers are and whose opinion is just an opinion.

      If you’re married, you and your husband should be jointly discussing any big life changes. Consider what specific events would make you want to make those big changes (no, an election itself isn’t one).

      To everyone else, discuss only if you need to. They aren’t in charge of your life. Even if you are making the “wrong” decision, you are a grown adult and it’s your life to live. Doesn’t matter if that wrong decision is moving to a blue state, quitting your job to open a restaurant, having a third kid or having none at all; other people don’t run our lives for us.

      Just… don’t discuss until a decision is made. “John and I decided to move to Massachusetts. We both got great jobs there. The school systems are amazing and we are excited for what the kids can accomplish. Visit us and we will take you to Fenway Park!”

  23. How worried do I need to be about the affordable care act being repealed? Any experts here?

    I get my (expensive) insurance from my state’s exchange and don’t get any federal subsidies. Just eligibility. It’s the only way I can get health insurance due to my health history/pre-exisfing conditions. Even so, my insurer has made money on me over the four years I’ve had it, comparing what they’ve paid out vs the premiums I’ve paid.

    1. I mean I don’t think anyone knows, right? My guess would be – if they somehow don’t dismantle it in the next two years, it survives. Now they could because it looks like they’ll have both houses, but maybe not as there could be other priorities, no one has any other plan ready to go, and they are already saying the house will be dysfunctional. I say two years under the premise that in 2026, Dems wrestle back control of the house and then it becomes harder to get rid of ACA. I’m a fed government employee watching this carefully as we’re in Elon’s crosshairs and not having employer provided healthcare with my health history and pre existing conditions means I’d need ACA when cobra ran out.

      1. I don’t think they’ll have the votes in the house. The majority is very slim and they’d need votes from blue and purple states they’re unlikely to get.

        1. Plus don’t you only get elected to the house for 2 years? They are very very self interested once they get in. If they are up for re election in 2026, they are not going to vote for tearing down ACA in 2025 if they are from a district where a ton of constituents are on ACA because that’ll guarantee a loss for them in 2026. So not every republican would vote for a slam dunk repeal of ACA just for that reason.

          1. No there are elections every two years but the terms are 6 years. They’re staggered, which is why we need biennial elections.

          2. No, that’s wrong, 1:36. The entire House is re-elected every two years, so they’re constantly running and yes, much more politically vulnerable than senators. It’s the Senate that has staggered 6 year terms, where only 1/3 of the members are up for re-election every two years.

          4. That’s the Senate. House of Representatives terms are two years only, so they run for re-election every two years.

    2. I am in that industry and our consultants are telling us it will not happen. The law is too popular with too many Republican voters.

      What is more likely is that they do not extend the subsidies after 2025. The impact of that on the total market is not clear but you should at least have until 2026 before anything happens.

      1. Funny how the Affordable Care Act is extremely popular with the electorate, but “Obamacare” is reviled. All a motivated politician has to do is call it the latter.

        1. Vance was claiming credit for the “ACA” on the campaign trail! and a large chunk of their voters believe them. Absolutely wild. Sorry not sorry, they’re dumb.

          1. Republicans and the Heritage Foundation contributed a lot to the ACA (and in some ways it really shows).

          2. He wasn’t talking about the original draft legislation. He claimed Trump “saved” the ACA while in office, which is a blatant lie. Trump tried to repeal it but didn’t succeed due to John McCain and a few other Republicans with spines. Please, I’m begging you, read some news that not’s Newsmax.

          3. Anon @ 2:06 please share what Republicans and The Heritage Foundation contributed to the ACA. Health care tangential lawyer here.

          4. Different Anon, but the ACA was essentially a Republican plan. The main idea comes from the Heritage Foundation and was first implemented by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. It’s why the Republicans have never been able to propose a better plan!

    3. This is a concern, but I am hopeful that Trump has so many other “promises” to fulfill and “plans” to implement, that rebuilding healthcare may be put on the back burner.

      I also have serious pre-existing conditions and would never be insurable in the old health care system outside of an employer. I have to buy my own insurance on the Marketplace. It costs a small fortune for me with no subsidies (almost $1500 per month).

      We’ll see how this year goes. Meanwhile, I am re-evaluating my employment options, which has now broadened to anywhere with good health insurance. My dream is a “government” job, but I have never been in that arena and sense it is too late for me to break in.

  24. Copy/pasted from someone I follow – hit the nail on the head.

    “As a registered Democrat – who voted for Kamala, who feels frustrated by Trump’s win, and is shocked by the majority vote…I also feel frustrated by the pervasive attitude I’m hearing from Dems of “Wow, what idiots those voters are.”

    “Wow what idiots” is the conclusion I’m hearing everywhere from the same people who also preach therapy, understanding, and the complexity of humans. It’s a conclusion that feels conveniently simplistic.
    “What idiots” means the end of learning. It is the end of reflection. I’ve never heard a conflict advance or improve by concluding that everyone else involved is simply an idiot.

    And many reply, “Well, I don’t care to understand the mob.” “I don’t empathize with morons.” That’s fine. You don’t have to. And I won’t convince you otherwise.

    I’m not here to preach some moral value. Feel and conclude whatever you want. What I’m talking about is tactics. It worries me that if the attitude is to simply write off the *majority* of Americans as “morons” and “idiots” – if we can never figure out how to represent a *majority* of America, then it very simply means that your party (my party) will never be in office again.”

    1. Politics is the art of getting to 51%.

      Mitt Romney shot himself in the foot when he said that 47% of people would never vote for him because of welfare and subsidies. True or not before he said it, it became true when he said it.

    2. I don’t care to understand the mob. Especially one led by hate, racism, and sexism. I have relatives in that camp and will have no relationship with them going forward. At some point, you have to draw a line. That’s mine.

      1. I think it’s one thing to cut off hateful people we know, but ceding political power to dangerous people because we think we’re above it all is a different proposition.

    3. There are definitely smart Trump voters, who voted out of self-interest or lack of concern for others, but all the people who fell for all the online misinfo spread by Putin via young male podcasters are dumb. You can’t be an intelligent person and genuinely believe the 2020 election was stolen and a very large percentage of Trump’s voters genuinely believe it was stolen.

      1. How exactly does intelligence tell someone if an election is stolen or not? I thought the expert consensus was that voting machines are laughably insecure… for some reason.

        1. Every election official on both sides of the aisle said there was no evidence of widespread fraud. There were dozens of lawsuits about it with no evidence of fraud. And if you think that election was stolen, but this one wasn’t? Why? You’re not a smart person if you think the only rigged elections are the ones in which Democrats win. If voting machines were insecure, there’s zero reason to think that would solely benefit Democrats, especially when there’s clear evidence that Russia vastly prefers Trump and is actively interfering with our elections (see e.g., bomb threats in heavily Democratic precincts on election day this year that *Republican* state officials said could be traced to Russia).

    4. I agree. A lot of people didn’t get great educations, haven’t had good experiences with the authorities and institutions they’re being asked to trust, and routinely encounter conspiracies that connect more dots for them than what they hear elsewhere. When they tentatively express nascent political opinions, what political community mocks, derides, and condemns them, and what political community welcomes them to say more and listen more? With so many controversial and divisive issues, one side drives people away with accusations and insults, and the other side welcomes them with open arms (yes also with ulterior motives).

      1. Exactly. The French Revolution begot Napolean. Purity and Virtue are not winning strategies.

    5. I think part of the problem is that there are some very difficult problems to solve facing our country today. It would be hard for the average or even well educated voter on either side to fully explain how all their party’s policies would actually work in practice, so the “gotcha” questions about how Trump’s proposed tariffs would actually help the economy are misleading and unhelpful. It’s not going to change anyone’s mind.

      I couldn’t describe in detail or guarantee that any of Harris’ policies would actually benefit the middle or lower class as I’d hope either. Reasonable people have always disagreed on the best way to equalize wealth. It’s tempting to go towards simple solutions that can be communicated well and sound workable: more police = less crime, but also frustrating when people refuse to accept that what *sounds* like it should work is more complex and in some cases has the opposite effect than intended.

      But ultimately I have placed my trust in the people I voted for, to make reasonable and reasoned decisions and to generally follow the ideals laid out. I assume that the people who voted for Trump feel much the same way. I also think people who put their trust in Trump to ever put the public interest over his own are idiots.

    6. Maybe it feels good to write people off as stupid, hateful, and racist. But I prefer to win elections, and it’s clear that this kind of attitude only makes Democrats lose more and more. I believe that racism, sexism, hate, and ignorance played a role in Trump’s win, but it’s also abundantly clear that dismissing all of his supporters only makes things worse. Why would you trust people that constantly dismiss you and your problems, especially in comparison to Trump who says you’re justified in being mad and that he’ll make everything better? I’m as liberal as it gets, and even I feel like the Democrats completely failed to put forth a positive vision of how they were going to change this country for the better, rather than basically keep doing more of the same, which feels bad for a lot of people.

      1. Not only dismiss, but ridicule! Why!? No one likes to be treated this way. And then follow it up with name calling when it goes wrong.

          3. It is true that people do not enjoy being ridiculed and called names, and it does not move people into the fold. If we want to move people in, it’s going to take shifting away from the DARVO method and back to the open tent.
            But by all means, continue rejecting others and see where it gets us in 2028.

      2. i completely agree with what you are saying. i do think smart Trump supporters are voting out of self interest and/or are secretly racist then there are the dumb ones. And a lot of people who don’t seem to care about the moral character of their president, which is important to me. i don’t have to be friends with these people or aspire to be like them or share their values or want to raise my children to be like them and can ridicule them on an anonymous message board….but I also realizeif the Dems want to put a president in office again they have to figure out how to message to them and embrace them.

    7. Uh, I hate to get all “whattabout-y,” but why isn’t anybody telling the red people not to be mean and hateful and name-cally?

      1. Because it would serve no purpose other than making you feel good. And getting more Republicans elected. I don’t know about you, but that’s not my goal. I’m a liberal, but above all, I’m a pragmatist. I like getting things done and actually making things better for people, not virtue signaling, which unfortunately seems to be the main priority of Democrats these days.

      2. Lots of people are! They’re just not… telling Democrats the Democratic strategy for 2026/2028 should be… Republican strategists should tell Republicans not to be racist a**holes.

    8. Truly no one needs to you repost other people’s preaching annoying click bait

    9. Listen, I grew up in the heart of the Bible Belt and these people have been the same since the rise of the Religious Right 40 years ago. They just haven’t had a politician to break norms until Trump. These people hate their gay children, they hate their biracial children, they hate anyone they can’t bully and control. Dems are told year after year to be the bigger person and just try to understand. I understand. I understand that they are not going to work at a factory job as a white man anymore. I understood that when I was in middle school. These same people will do the same thing every year with no factory in sight and spout their nonsense about liberal cities when frankly if more of them moved to cities they’d probably have better life circumstances. Not everyone can leave, but some of them can. Yes, immigration does play a role in that and outsourcing but they wouldn’t be able to afford all of the cheap junk they buy all the time without cheap labor. There is a reality that some of these people have to face but they have an ecosystem that has been created to force feed them what they want to hear so they never have to accept reality.

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