Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Slim Pant

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Washable Work Pants: Zac and Rachel Slim PantOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Reader K recently wrote in to recommend these trousers, noting: “I have a piece that I am in love with — slacks. So much so, that today I used my lunch break to buy 3 more pairs, all in different colors! I am a bargain shopper and don't know what kind of stores you have around, but I got these at my local Gordman's store in Moore, Oklahoma, for $25.00 each. This gal likes to save her hard-earned cash for vacations, so I am not afraid to shop at bargain stores. I originally bought gray. Didn't even try them on. Surprised when I got home that they don't have a zipper or buttons! I was shocked as they look like professional slacks and they are just PULL ON! Today I had to search the racks but found my size in colors of: navy, black, and maroon!” It's so nice to see a reader so excited about pants! I think these pull-on ankle pants might be the ones she's referencing, but if you want longer pants, I like the look of these slim pants at Target for $35, available in sizes 6-16. Ladies, what is your favorite pair of pants for work? Zac and Rachel Slim Pant Here's a plus-sized option. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

255 Comments

  1. My BFF is expecting her first kid any day now, and she wants me to come visit as soon as possible to meet the baby. She’s a 3 hour flight and two hour drive away from me, so we’re looking at a weekend about a month away. I’m sort of in a time and budget crunch right now, so if I didn’t go that weekend, I would go in June or July. She said that she’s happy to have me visit whenever, so summer works for her and she suspects we’ll have more time to hang out then. I’m not expecting to hang out at all- just to clean her house, make food, and do whatever else is helpful. Will I regret not going to see her and baby when it’s still a newborn? It’s a little expensive and inconvenient, but I don’t want to miss a great moment in my friend’s life. What would you do?

    1. No, I don’t think you are missing out -in fact I think the summer is a great time. The baby will be more interactive and your friend will be more in control. It will still be a great moment in your friend’s life. I would actually not recommend overnight visits to friends with newborns, especially first time parents. It is really hard. Even though you are there to help, it’s still a bit more stress to have a visitor. Waiting a couple months is a smart move.

    2. visiting a newborn and visiting a 6 month old are two totally different (and fun) experiences.

      Newborn visit: you’re there to snuggle the baby, clean the house, let mom relax, and HELP. Baby will be asleep most of the time, extremely cuddly, and smell like fresh born baby. Mom will be exhausted and interested in sleeping and showering.

      4-6 month old visit: baby will be up most of the time, rolling around, bopping at toys, maybe sitting, but still (hopefully!!) solidly napping 2-3x/day. Baby will be “fun” to play with, but not as snuggly (though extremely cute). Mom will be in the swing of things and will not likely need as much HELP, so much as company. You’ll likely go outside, on walks, to places, etc. Mom will be interested in going out to eat/get coffee etc. and to your friend’s point, really “hang out.”

      It kind of depends if you are there to be more in support mode, or to be there in visit-and-play-with-baby.

      1. Yes, if she has a strong support system that can come in an be another pair of hands, it is better for you to wait until the baby is a few months old. If she doesn’t have people coming in to help her (mom, sisters, aunts, etc) then yes, having her BFF there to help her in the early weeks to do things like make sure she is eating and sleeping and help her hold the baby so she can take a shower is invaluable and you should plan to go.

        Otherwise waiting until baby is a few months old is better- although probably not so great if you are trying to go just after she goes back on maternity leave. So if she has a 12-15 week leave, June or July might be right when she’s been back to work a few weeks, and she’s just going to want to sleep away those weekends or do baby laundry, etc, not have a houseguest.

        I don’t think you will regret not being there when baby is teeny-tiny vs a few months old,but it is also easy for this kind of trip to keep getting pushed back and back because it’s never a good time and next thing you know the kid is 2, so I’d commit and buy plane tickets now.

    3. As a mother to a 3 month old, I would have preferred you come visit in a few months rather than during the newborn days.

      Newborns sleep. They eat. They get their diapers changed. That’s pretty much it. You don’t really go too many places because they eat so frequently that you never quite know when the time bomb will go off. The kid will be what- 3 or 4 months old when you go visit if you go in June or July? That’ll be prime time where kid can go a little longer and is a little more predictable and you can actually go to a Farmers’ Market or out to lunch. They’re also a little sturdier and (in my opinion) waaaayyyy more fun. The smiles! The bizarre attempts at laughter!

      I was kind of slammed with grandparents and family friends in the beginning, at this point I’ve been on leave for a while and am bored. If someone could come and even just hang out and hold my kid while I do dishes/paint trim, that would be awesome.

      1. OH! And my next friend who has a baby, I’m just going to tell her, ‘Friday, I’ve got dinner covered,’ then order a pizza, pay over the phone, and have it delivered to her house on like day 4 of being home from the hospital.

        Because my leave is not fully paid, I’ve been reluctant to spend too much, but I would LOVE to just have a hot meal brought to my door.

      2. I echo all of this and also want to tell you, Clementine, that I have a 3 month old, too! Can we be mom friends? :) This was my first week back at work– I’m a little jealous that you’re still on leave. Hope it’s going well!

        1. Me too! I had a lot of anxiety this week, I felt like I was missing a body part. I had cry in the bathroom moments a few times.

    4. I don’t think you’ll be missing anything by coming in June. In fact, you may get a better feel for baby’s personality when s/he is not just a tiny sleeping adorable little blob at that time. It’s so hard to say what’s better because I think so much depends on the kind of kid you end up with – some sleep all day, some are inconsolable and cry – and how easily your friend adjusts to feeding, etc. I agree that for some people having someone there might only make it harder because you feel like you have to be “on” – sometimes it’s easier with a screaming infant when you don’t have an audience. But on the other hand it can be nice to have an extra pair of hands, although this will be just as helpful when the baby is older, if not more so since as the baby spends more time awake, your friend will have even less time to herself to shower, tidy, nap, etc.

      Also, although people want to help you clean and cook and whatnot, I honestly didn’t want anyone doing that for me except for my mom, maybe. Maybe I’m the exception because a friend of mine actually got mad at her MIL because she didn’t help her vacuum when she came to visit her newborn, but I just didn’t want my friends and family cleaning my apartment (I would love for someone to just come over and babysit an hour or two though or take baby out to the park so I can be alone to do whatever). I think sending food can be very nice, too, or paying for a cleaning service (you can often find something online for as little as $30 with a coupon for first time visits).

    5. I want to preface this by saying that there is 100% nothing wrong with not going, and you will definitely have a more fun visit if you wait until summer.

      Personally, I made the slightly-inconvenient-and-expensive trip to visit my friend when her daughter (my goddaughter) was 3 weeks old. It turned out to be a really important moment in our friendship – she was recovering from a bad two weeks with her own mother, and her partner was working a million shifts at work to make up the pay difference because her leave wasn’t fully covered, and being there to wash a million bottles and reassure her that all of the underhanded comments her mom had spent the last two weeks sowing deep into her brain were wrong and to hang out with the baby so she and her partner could go to a movie and feel like romantically connected adults instead of baby nurses for three hours really cemented not only our friendship bond with each other, but also my friendship with her partner and my relationship with my goddaughter.

      With that said, it was an exhausting weekend and I spent the entire next week kind of foggy from the tired caused by travel+newborn, so you have to decide if you can take the emotional/energy level/financial hit or not at this time, and there’s really no wrong decision here, so do what’s best for you.

    6. For many, weeks 3-8 are the hardest – before that, the baby is mostly sleeping. Around week 3 they’re PISSED whenever they’re awake and it’s exhausting. This has the unfortunate timing of often coinciding with Dad going back to work and family help leaving town. So, help is really appreciated, if you’re able to make the trip. Kid will definitely be more fun at 4-6 months, but most new moms would welcome an extra set of hands between weeks 3 and 8. I just wanted to sleep for more than 45 minutes at a time – or to have someone else wash those damn bottles – or have someone trade off pacing back and forth with the baby for 2 hours to lull them to sleep for an hour – or eat something with both hands … I was a sore, hormonal, zombie mess.

      tl/dr – if you’re there to help, show up at newborn age. If you want to spend quality time with your friend, wait a couple months.

  2. anyone feel like vicariously shopping? ISO a cuff and fancy earrings to wear with a black max-style dress to a wedding in a few weeks. I am in a total rut and can’t find anything that looks good.

    I can be flexible on price for the right pieces, but would prefer to keep things on the cheap. Open to silver or gold, but prefer not rose gold.

    1. I have had this cuff in my “save for later” at Nordstrom for like a year…I love it:

      http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/vince-camuto-cutout-cuff/4019605

      Also, I love shopping for vintage costume jewelry on eBay. I don’t know if you like flashy stuff (I do) but I collect vintage Czech glass necklaces and earrings. You could do some searches for things like that. Of course, it is tough because sometimes they don’t look quite as you’d hoped.

    2. I would look at BCBG. I got a great cuff there a couple years ago.

      I also lust after Elizabeth and James cuffs so if your budget is a little more flexible, that may be a great option.

    3. Anyone want to find me a lovely black tie dress for a late Winter wedding? Size 16-18.

      1. Mine is maternity, so can’t help ya there :) But are you looking for something long or c*cktail length? Black or just black-tie appropriate?

      2. I’ve had a lot of luck with Adrianna Papell for size 16-18 dresses that aren’t frumpy. They are sold at Nordstroms and run 150-400. I prefer shorter dresses, so I’ve actually bought a few full length ones & had them hemmed to knee length. Plus nordys great return policy if you decide you don’t like it later on.
        I’ll link a couple below.

  3. This may be a weird question, but what do you use to keep your white clothes really white and not that dingy light gray? It never really bothered me before, but now that I’m really starting to spend money on quality clothes, I obviously want to make them last longer. Growing up, I always just did “light” loads that were a mixture of things.

    1. I just don’t buy white clothes. I would like to, though, so interested to hear answers.

      1. +1

        This is also my answer to “how do you keep suede shoes in great condition?” I dont buy them. I don’t indulge high-maintenance clothing.

        1. Word. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve put a white blazer or white pants in my shopping cart online, only to realize that my life is not conducive to white clothing, and then close the browser window.

      2. Yay! Fruegal Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s and these skinny pant’s, tho with my tuchus, Kat, I would like to find a pair of skinny pant’s that can acommodeate my unique sizeing.

        As for the OP’s, I do buy white clotheing and suede shoe’s, and it is true, those are VERY painful to keep nice. Just the other day, I ruined a pair of suede ankel boot’s b/c I stepped into a puddel on the corner of 68th and Park, and after it dried, there is all this white stuff on the shoe I can NOT get off. FOOEY!

        Does anyone in the HIVE know how to fix suede? My cleaning lady says no, but she realy just want’s me to give them to her. If I can fix it, I can save $129.00. But I think the last time this happened with my LEATHER FRY boot’s, I did just get rid of them. DOUBEL FOOEY!

        I have to meet the manageing partner today at a cleint’s luncheon, so I have NOT eaten breakfast. I am starveing, but the manageing partner told me I had to eat lunch when I go so that we do NOT insult our host’s. They are Asian, and I love Asian food, so this will NOT be a probelem, today at least, tho Dad warned me again about to much eateing and not enough step’s on my FITBIT! I hope to get alot of steps in this weekend. Last weekend, with SUBZERO weather, I did NOT do very much at all in my home office, other then to catch up on my billeing’s. YAY!!!!

    2. I now do white loans that are exclucively white. I put in the water and let them soak a long time and I also use bleach / spot treat.

      But I have enough volume with my stuff and children’s white uniform shirts for school and towels that I can justify a whole load of whites periodically.

      1. I love white and wear a lot. I always wash with white loads. Sometimes I add Borax or hydrogen peroxide to the wash. I have never had an issue with things getting dingy. I also wash white stuff after one wear, vs. other things I would probably try to get 2-3 wears out of before washing. And I don’t let white laundry sit – that leaves to armpit discoloration for me (I mean longer than a week or so).

      1. In small amounts, VERY infrequently! Otherwise things turn yellow!

        Do only-whites loads. And hang to dry in the sun, when you can.

        1. I buy color-safe bleach now for clothes (see, supra, children). I also tend to use borax or washing soda if I do a separate soak (leave out the bleach).

          The real bleach I mostly save for cleaning germy things in a diluted solution.

          OMG, am turning into Heloise.

          1. Admission: I read Heloise every day in the Washington Post. Her tips are so inane sometimes, I love it! One time she suggested cutting up pool noodles and putting them around the legs of furniture so you don’t stub your toe.

        2. Bleach and a dash of blueing in the final rinse to keep them from getting yellow. This is the one that I use–found it at a small town co-op grocer http://mrsstewart.com/

          (All my linens are white. I’m currently crossing my fingers that the chocolate my dude dropped in bed and then sleep-melted all over the sheets comes out–it’s in the washer).

          1. I generally don’t buy whites for this very reason, but my husband has white undershirts and started complaining about a year ago when I turned most of them a light pink. Woops!
            1. Wash whites separately.
            2. watered down bleach occasionally.
            3. a couple drops of blueing agent occasionally (I use mrs. stewart too).

    3. I think most whites can’t last more than 2 seasons without starting to look like they’ve seen better days — so I shop sales accordingly

    4. I do a load of only white clothing to prevent color transfer. I also let it soak for a while with oxi clean.

    5. All of my towels and sheets are white, so I have no problem getting a full load of whites together. I use oxyclean in every load of whites, and if they’re a bit grimy, pretreat with a paste of it. The paste also works on yellowed underarms and collars like magic. (It’s basically baking soda and hydrogen peroxide in a stable form -I think- so you can also make a paste of that, which is what I used to do and it similarly worked like magic, but I like the convenience.)

    6. Drying in the sun really does wonders for whites. And it makes your clothes smell and feel lovely. But this is clearly a warm climate/summer solution…and requires a clothesline.

    7. I did this Pinterest thing once involving soaking items in bleach, borax and dishwasher detergent. It worked but I live in an apartment and don’t have access to a top loader any more.

      Also, oxi-clean.

      1. Will this work on DH’s white dress shirts to remove armpit and collar stains?

        1. I keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide for that. Pour it on, then rub it in. I also use OxyClean on anything white that is looking the least big off.

    8. I’m not afraid of using bleach. I have a front loader and haven’t figured out how to add blueing to the final rinse. At any rate, I use bleach, and tide. I put detergent in the wash and prewash compartments. I set the washer to do a pre-wash, heavy soil, with extra rinse (to get rid of the bleach smell) and Mrs. Meyers fabric softener (to further get rid of bleach smell.) I only do this for sheets and towels, since it takes FOREVER to complete the cycle. White clothing (mostly undershirts) go through a regular cycle with no bleach (but maybe some Oxiclean or Borax). DH’s white button up shirts (actually all of them, regardless of color) get laundered.

  4. I need help, wise hive!
    I am going to Cape Town on a conference in March. I am looking very much forward to visiting South Africa.
    I have two questions, one about Cape Town, one about dressing professional in hot weather.
    I am traveling with a colleague. Apart from the days at the conference, we have half a day to sightsee before the conference and two days afterwards (we leave late in the evening day two).
    How would you spend that time to get as much of an experience as possible?
    Second thing, I come from a cool climate, all my nice clothes are black, navy, charcoal, in wool or merino. What to wear? If I was only going as a tourist I would dress casual, but I believe the conference is business casual
    TIA!

    1. I used to have this problem when I traveled to the Caribbean for work and had to dress business casual. I ended up buying some sleeveless sheath dresses in tropical wool and then would wear a nice cardigan (extra fine merino wool) or a light wool jacket inside, where the AC was freezing. When walking between buildings, catching a cab, at dinner, etc, it was no problem to take off my outer layer. And if you can get away with peep toe shoes, I recommend them. They really help keep your feet from being too hot. FWIW, I don’t think that colors matter too much.

      Although – does it even get that hot in Cape Town? I’ve never been, but I was under the impression that it was more temperate there…

      1. It does, although by March it will be cooling off. Temps in the 90s are standard in midsummer.

    2. I lived in South Africa for 16 years, albeit further up the east coast. In March it will be the end of summer/beginning of fall, so definitely sunny and dry but not blisteringly hot and humid. Even so, professional dress in South Africa usually means lighter colours (and brighter colours in Cape Town which is more of an arts and culture city than a conservative business city) and short sleeves, so no one will bat an eyelash if you’re not wearing a blazer outside. I don’t think you will find wearing wool suiting comfortable, unless it is summer-weight, so you might need to go shopping. Of course, your style may be different than mine, but I’d get a pair of lightweight wool or polished cotton ankle pants, some short-sleeves blouses, and a sheath dress in summer-weight wool, and call it a day.

      In terms of how to get the most out of your 2.5 days of site-seeing, I would go to Robben Island and District 6 Museum, take a cable car up Table Mountain, and if you can manage a day trip, visit Muizenberg beach.

      1. Cosign most of this. But go to Cape Point or Franschhoek over Muizenburg if you have time for a day trip.

      2. Thank you very much, this is very good information. I have not been to S.A. before.
        Where I live it is feezing a lot now, so it is kind of difficult to imagine summer and heat
        Thanks again

    3. Don’t worry about color, but do bring lighter weight stuff. I wear a lot of summer weight merino and that would probably be fine most days in March, but I’d have a few cotton tanks as well. It’s a relatively casual city, so cotton tank plus cardigan plus ankle pants will do you fine for business casual in most industries.

      Free time: are you a hiker? If so, the route up Table Mountain from Kirstenbosch gardens is one of my favorite things in the world. You can take the cable car back down. Or Lion’s Head for a shorter but lovely hike. Eat all the food. If you are free on a Saturday morning, check out the market in the Biscuit Mill – lots of good food, but also some cute shopping. As I said above, day trips to Cape Point or Franschhoek (winelands). There’s a good museum at the Solms Delta vinyard. I can give specific restaurant recommendations if you’re interested.

      1. Thanks a lot for this info. I have some nice ankle pants, I will take a look at the.
        I always wantet to see the Table Mountain, just the name is magical.

        As fore going to Cape Point on a day trip, should we rent a car or are there tours?

        Thanks Again!

          1. There are a million companies that do tours, although I like renting a car to have the flexibility (as long as you are comfortable driving on the left, of course). Most tours just go to the southern tip of the park, which is great, but the whole area is incredibly beautiful and it’s nice to be able to pull into one of the less-traveled sections for a walk. Also, that way you could stop for a drink someplace nice on the way back (12 Apostles if you go the coastal route and want something fancy, or there are several coffee shops in Muizenburg if you go the other route).

            This is all making me super homesick!

  5. I’m leaving my job this year to go back to graduate school, but might like to come back to this company someday. Our company is very level-driven and the majority of the time, promotions from my level to the next level are a one-year process (meaning I should be promoted this year before I leave – and I’ve definitely worked my butt off all year and gotten glowing interim reviews). However, my supervisor seems to be hinting that it’s “common” to not get promoted in one year, even though the historical trends prove that it’s very rare. Last year, someone else who was in the same position ended up not getting promoted even though she was a widely recognized high performer (she was apparently told she “used big words” in meetings “that could be confusing” when she asked why.) Can anyone give me advice on how to speak up for myself and aim for the promotion that I think I deserve, even though I do have the added difficulty of leaving the company in late summer? I’m getting worried that my supervisor is going to provide some BS reason for not promoting me like they did to the other woman last year. I really want to get promoted because I think I deserve it based on my work, I want to have the new title and salary bump to use as my future baseline for job searching, and I might want to come back here someday. If I got told I used big words and therefore would miss out on the promotion that 90% of all people at my level get, that would certainly sour the pot. Any advice on advocating for yourself would be appreciated.

    1. Does your company know that you’ll be leaving for grad school? If they do — even if they know “unofficially” or your boss does but said he wouldn’t tell anyone — I’d think there’s a good chance you won’t be promoted this year, regardless of the background, as the company won’t see much benefit in promoting someone who won’t be around to do the work of the promotion. Unfortunately, if your boss is already trying to curb your expectations, I think the decision may already have been made or in process.

      Hopefully I’m wrong. . .

      1. Yes, is there a promotion season at your company or is it done on an annual basis? At some companies promotions that are “move person to the next step” are pretty much automatic based on X years experience plus an annual review of Y. At other companies the boss has to expend political capital to make the case for why his budget should be increased to cover the cost of your raise/promotion. One of the major arguments for giving someone a promotion is to keep them happy for retention purposes.

        If I were your boss and you already told me you were probably leaving, I wouldn’t expend a lot of political capital on getting you that promotion – I would be saving it up to use on people who were sticking around, or to use to make the case to get the best candidate to replace you.

        It also may be that it is common (or at least not un-common) for not everyone to get promoted after one year – you may only be seeing a recent trend that is being dialed back, and/or the people that didn’t get promoted after only 1 year aren’t around anymore so they aren’t counting in your ancedata.

        1. It’s actually not just anecdata – the company publishes a list of everyone who got promoted that year and you can analyze the trends over time. That’s how I know that it’s rare for a promotion at this level to not happen. They’re more automatic right now (it gets much less automatic at the higher levels) and I think you’re right that my boss might not expend much capital for me, but she said (in the same conversation) that promotions are based on past work, not future plans, and that not getting promoted is “common” (which I now know is not). I’m just confused about the message here.

    2. Yes, they do know that I am likely leaving (I had to get letters of recommendation from two of my superiors). I told my supervisor that I’m not making any final decisions until I can review financial aid offers and that I might defer if needed, but that is quite unlikely. I know of several staffers who were promoted before their known departures for grad school, but then again, the woman’s experience last year has me skeptical.

      1. Even if you don’t get promoted now I assume going to grad school for qualify you or at least be a great arguing point for a future promotion if you come back to this company?

    3. do you work at my company? either way, no answers but wishing you the best :-)

    4. At my company, getting a promotion is of the “political capital”variety described above. I’m really open with my bosses up front and explain that I want a promotion. Then I make a plan for what I think will earn me that promotion with specific and measurable goals, share it with them during a 1 on 1 and ask for their input as to what they would like to see in order to feel comfortable promoting me. Then I work towards those goals, meeting with my boss regularly to explain my successes and get advice on the things I have not succeeded at yet. I also actively always ask how I can make my bosses job easier and try to suggest ways in which I can do that (& then just check with them to make sure that if I won’t be stepping on any toes.). I think the “she used big words thing” is total bs in my mind (why didn’t they ell her in advance?), keeping the lines of communication open about expectations & results will hopefully avoid that for you.

    1. Stila All Day Liquid Lipstick is the most long-lasting I’ve ever used. I put it on bare lips then put lip balm over top because it’s pretty matte and a bit drying, but I love it. And it wears off nicely instead of making you look weird if you are wearing a bold shade.

    2. Yeah, a lot of liquid lipsticks are longwearing – Stila Stay All Day, Kat Von D Everlasting, Sephora Cream Lip Stain), but if you want something less drying, I recommend MAC Pro Longwear and also Revlon Just Bitten Kissable balms. In general, any matte lipstick will be more longwearing.

      1. I’ve found Revlon Colorstay liquid lipstick to be better than Kat von D Everlasting. But Rimmel’s liquid lipstick is my new HG (gotta look impeccable on the RAWR)

        1. I loved the shade selection of the Revlon Colorstay liquid lipsticks, but they flake off my lips in a very unattractive way (and I just have human lips not lizard lips!)

          1. Funny you say this – I got a new Revlon Colorstay liquid lipstick, slapped it on yesterday morning, though of how PERFECT the color was… and then looked in a mirror after lunch and was horrified to see that I looked like I had some sort of lip leprosy from the way it was wearing off. I had to scrub my lips with a rough paper towel to get everything off.

  6. How do you boost productivity/ stay focused? I have some really difficult weeks coming up but I’m just not feeling very disciplined.

    1. I set up for an intense work session by filling my water bottle (or making a cup of tea), organizing my stacks of paperwork and making my desk as neat as possible, minimize email, and turn on Pandora very quietly.

      I also mentally mark good stopping points and make myself stop there and take a restroom break/refill water/walk a lap around the office. If I blow past the stopping point, I start to feel burned out and get pulled into email or internet sites (like this). Sticking to my break points helps me go back and power through another session.

  7. Ugh, picking wedding dates is hard. We were looking at next April, but between Easter, the NCAA tournament (went to a school that’s very big into basketball), and our ten year college reunion (which applies to the majority of our guests, including all the ones who would be flying cross-country, and I hate to have anyone flying that far twice in a month), I have no idea what weekend to put this on that isn’t going to inconvenience guests. March isn’t reliably warm, and May isn’t reliably not 90 degrees (and also has mother’s day and memorial day). There’s no question here, just needed to rant, unless anyone has any suggestions.

    1. You’re never going to make everybody happy. If you’re important to them, they’ll make it work/be very apologetic. If not, oh well.

      1. This is so true. Figure out who your most important, must be there guests are and check their schedules and pick accordingly.

    2. Could you have your wedding in/near your college town immediately before/after the reunion? Especially if it’s where you met

    3. Does your college reunion go all weekend? If the main event is Saturday, could you set the date for Friday or Sunday and have people extend their trip? Otherwise I think you’re going to have to choose between having the date you want or having a lot of your guests there – I don’t know if they would choose your wedding over the reunion, but I don’t know of anyone that I’d make two cross-country flights in one month for.

      1. Just saw the Anon above’s post – I assumed you were located in the college area, but maybe that’s not the case.

      2. Honestly, I don’t know that I would make 2 cross country flights in 6 months for someone other than my very best friends if it is a similar area. So if you in California and your alma mater is on the East Coast, people may not bundle them together in their minds – but if the wedding is near-ish the college, I don’t know how many people will attend both.

        Do you think a lot of your friends will be going to the 10 year reunion? I suspect if your wedding is within a month or two either way a lot of them are going to have to pick one or the other, but not both. Of course, that depends on a lot of things – if your whole friend group all flies to each other’s weddings maybe that’s not such a big deal to your group.

        You are never going to get a date that makes everyone happy – you just have to go with the “least bad” date that you can get a location you like and go from there.

    4. No matter what you choose, someone will be annoyed/inconvenienced/unable to make it. You just have to go with the best option given your circumstances, preferences, and constraints.

      Our big issues were weather (outdoor ceremony and reception), venue availability for our chosen spot, and not a college graduation weekend. It happens to be the Saturday before Father’s Day but I didn’t give that a second thought – if you are so uptight about your Father’s Day plans for ONE year that you are annoyed about my wedding being on “your” weekend, then I am pretty sure we aren’t friends anyway… :)

  8. How do you moms of young children (and I do mean children, plural, because when I only had one child things seemed so much easier) make life work? I was just laid off from what seems to be the only flexible job in town that’s in my specialty. I have an offer for a great job, but we’d need 1.5 nannies! My spouse has a lucrative but inflexible job making more than I ever could so it doesn’t make sense for him to lean out. I never, ever thought it would come to this but the idea of us both working crazy hours so we can pay someone else to raise our kids is depressing us both, not to mention the strain that never having time for ourselves or as a family would put on our marriage. Does anyone on here have it all?

    1. Congrats on getting a new job offer so quickly! Is there potential for flexibility at this new job, even just the ability to work from home when needed? Can your spouse take similar steps to have flexibility? Not sure what your specialty is, but with an offer in hand, you can likely get other offers as well.

      Also, just a sore spot for me in terms of phrasing, but no matter what you decide to do work-wise, you and your spouse will be raising your kids. You do what you need to do to make sure they’re housed, fed and loved – who watches them part of the time is much less important.

    2. Ugh, no answers but sympathy. Do you have a nanny now? I too was laid off and am taking my sweet time to find a new gig for exactly this reason. I have severance for quite a while, and that’s good because I will need to make a LOT of money (25-30k more than I made at the last role) for it to be worth the enormous hassle of 2 FT demanding jobs. I am very seriously considering part-time consulting on a semi permanent (till all the littles are in kindy) basis.

      The job I was laid off from had exactly the right kind of flexibility- hours could compliment my husband’s, high travel but also ability to WFH enough that I was pretty present for the kids. Most other roles are equally high travel + full time face time in the office (which is a 45 min+ commute away).

      Figure if I can walk away with 75k/year in consulting, working probably 60% [with childcare of course, but on my more flexible schedule], it could work for a while and keep me viable in 3 years when I’d want to jump back in FT.

      1. No nanny now. IF I could do your plan B, that would be my choice. Unlikely to work in my specialty though. So my alternative is to cobble together something new, hoping that my reputation and connections can turn something new into something worthwhile.

    3. Most couples don’t really have a choice, and they make it work. Each household has a solution that works for them.

      When our kids were wee, my husband went to work at the crack of dawn so that he could be the person to pick up the kids from preschool between 5 and 6. I went into work later so that I could be the morning drop-off parent.

      Before the kids were old enough for preschool my husband stayed home with them.

      After preschool, once the kids got into elementary school, things got a little easier. There was a really good after school program that was crafts and activity based and was so popular that kids with stay at home parents were begging to go.

      Once my older child went to middle school, she walked home from school and picked up her brother at elementary school on the way.

      When my job evolved to require a lot of travel, we hired a babysitter to come for 2 hours every morning to get the kids breakfast, make lunches, and get them to school.

      Now my oldest is in high school and takes the city bus.

      All of these things are what worked for us. Just remember that you only have to deal with the step that is right now and worry about the rest when the time comes.

      1. I know, I know. Having the choice is a luxury, but since it’s a choice it’s HARD.

      2. If you’re thinking about staying home with the kids, do it because it’s something you absolutely want to do. Don’t couch it in excuses like, “It just makes sense given H’s schedule!” or “We would have needed 2 nannies!”

        You don’t have to justify your choice to anyone but yourself, and you don’t want to be telling yourself “I HAD to do this because working was impossible.” When you’re 6 months into SAHM life and having a rough day you don’t want that echoing around your head making you feel trapped and miserable. You want to be able to say, “I wanted this! I can find a way to make this better.”

        (Saying all this as a former SAHM who tortured herself because I always felt like I should be working, and never relaxed and enjoyed it.)

        1. On the off chance you see this, thank you! I do feel like I *should* work simply because it’s what I’ve always done and why I went to school and paid my dues to get where I am. If I don’t work, I need to own that choice!

    4. I have 5 kids (gasp!). I decided, after the birth of my last, to SAHM for 1-2 years. I just didn’t want want to do the pumping/nanny/constantly rushed/no sleep working mom rat race anymore. I’m established in my career/have a reputation in my niche, and thus have zero worries about going back to work when I want to. We also don’t need the income, so I would feel fine about taking time to find the right opportunity when I go back (but I’ll likely just return to my old, great firm).

      1. Wow! You might have it all! And I like how you’re owning it. I don’t have that status in my career, not at this point.

      2. You know, I’m happy with my situation, but I suspect a lot of people here would not think I “have it all.” I’m definitely sacrificing income now (a lot of it!), making more connections in my field, just being out there all the time, working on publications, getting awards, getting a little rusty, etc. while I’m out. But I just don’t give a ****. It comes down to priorities, and it’s okay if those shift over time. This is the one life I get, and this is how I want to live it.

        From your other posts and the fact that you cried when you received the job offer, it sounds like you don’t want to take it. That’s okay if you can afford not to. You have to decide based on your own priorities.

      3. You do have it all. I literally can’t imagine the privilege of your situation. How did you get there?

        1. I’m the anonymous at 1:26 and our comments crossed – I didn’t mean to be snarky at all about your 1:23 comment and I hope it didn’t come across that way. I just have struggled so much with this issue and am, frankly, totally jealous that you have five kids and don’t need your income to survive :) It does come down to priorities – but my priority is to earn enough money to pay our mortgage and send kids to college, I guess, even though I adore my kids and would love to be home more. I’d love to be in your shoes.

          1. Oh, I didn’t think you were being snarky. We bought a house we could afford on one income years ago, and it helps we live in a moderate COL area. Also we may not be able to pay for 5 kids full-freight to Harvard, though we’ll pay for what we can. So, there are trade offs. Good luck to you.

        2. I do not come from a privileged or educated family at all, but I realize how much privilege I enjoy now. I went to cheap state school for undergrad on scholarships and Pell grants, then went to law school really young, so I had a lot of years in my career under my belt before doing this. I did a biglaw stint, then I just really lucked out and ended up at a firm with amazing, brilliant mentors doing the top work in this field, and they brought me along. I’m no slouch, I do good work, but being at the right place at the right time and then happening to fit in well at the firm was so much of it.

      4. Also (I’ll shut up after this – miss the edit feature), I’ll add that my husband was really excited when I made this decision. He’s always been supportive of my career, but we both had the no-family-time fatigue, and me being more available helps a lot. I can take care of errands, etc. during the week so we have more family time on weekends, and if he finds some occasional wiggle room in his schedule, we can all take advantage of that and do something fun together. Before our wiggle room rarely lined up.

    5. I don’t have personal experience but one thing I think about a lot is that this time (needing 1.5 nannies) is temporary. It’s only a few years until your kids are at school and there are probably options for aftercare etc that will be organized by the school and reduce the pressure on you. So, it’s terrible that you have to work so hard to pay someone else to raise your kids for now, but this is temporary. Once you make it to elementary school it won’t be this expensive again until college.

      1. It is not necessary to comment on every question. If you have no experience, you do not have to chime in. You have no idea if it’s temporary or what the options will be. And you have no idea how hard this is NOW even if you are right that it’s temporary. I’m sure you don’t mean to trivialize the OP’s question but sometimes it’s best just not to weigh in when you really cannot relate.

        1. Well, not Wildkitten, but as a mom working a high hours job, her take was exactly what I told myself, almost daily. The expense (daycare, nanny) will get better. It does get more complicated (juggling after school care, activities, school year and summer vacations (!!)), but I also don’t have the fog of sleep deprivation slowing me down. I think it’s pretty universal (although not 100%) that care options get cheaper and kids get more self-sufficient as they get older, and “this too shall pass” was my weekly mantra for a while when writing out the checks to daycare.

        2. If she has a disabled child who will need full time home care for zir entire life that should probably be included in the question, because you are right, that is an entirely different situation.

    6. I leaned out, a bit. We have four children. Having two high-powered careers was running us ragged. We decided to focus on one career and my husband’s was chosen because he loves what he does much more than I do. I moved from full-time to part-time. I found a flexible job and have set really clear boundaries. (Luckily, I managed to find an exciting role with management that supports me and offers me growth opportunities despite my 60% work load>) We gave up the au pair, moved from a HCOL city to a LCOL city, and I will likely not get promoted any time soon. Compared to my ultra-competitive business school classmates, I am not achieving much in my career. But, we are generally happy with the trade-offs. It is all about trade-offs. I have no idea whether we’ll do this forever, but for now it is working.

    7. My husband and I both work full-time. His job is far less flexible than mine. I am a lawyer and I could make more money somewhere else, but really value the flexibility my job provides. Right now, he goes in later and takes everyone to school (3 kids). I go in early so I can be off earlier. We have a nanny who picks up our youngest from pre-school and watches her for the rest of the day and picks up the other two kids once school is out. I get home and start dinner, etc. My husband gets home right as we are sitting down to eat most days. Sometimes he has to work late or will make it in time for dinner, but log back on from home in the evenings. It is very busy, but we are making it work.

    8. +1 our kids are in daycare for 8+ hours each day and then we have someone pick them up on odd days when one of us cannot get there in time. We are still the parents and are raising our kids. They look to us for learning, love, and guidance. The first few months are going to be very difficult as with all big life/family changes but hopefully your family will shake out a good routine.

    9. I hear you. We have 2 small children and I thought it was completely fine and manageable with 1 kid. Two kids, whole other story. We work full-time as well, I have a challenging job that I love that is mostly 9 – 5 pm (with some late nights here and there but not often) and my husband has a demanding job with travel. I’m convinced that the only way to make it work is to hire a nanny or have significant family help (like 20 hours a week). My mom lives close by and pretty much does all the cooking and grocery shopping for us, as well as some pick ups from daycare. We are incredibly grateful and blessed for her help, I don’t know what we would do without her. We also have hired sitters who come to our home every morning to help my son finish his breakfast, get him dressed, and take him to school.

      Even with all of this help though, I don’t think it would be enough if both of us had really demanding jobs. That’s just the fact. I think it’s perfectly valid to lean out for a few years and then try to lean back in once your kids are a little older. Or just hire a LOT of help and think of it as an investment for your career. But I totally understand that you want to spend time with your kids and not outsource it to hired help. It’s really really tough. You’re certainly not alone!

      1. Reading your morning sitter sentence made me so panicky. That is what we’d need if we didn’t go the nanny route. I know it was what it was and you made it work but I just don’t know if I can do that without a significant impact on my mental wellbeing, especially given that I am fortunate enough to have the choice not to.

        1. Why does that make you panic? The morning sitters have been lifesavers and have eliminated the need for a nanny (but see my original post about how much my mom helps out). They come to our home every morning at 8 am, spend an hour helping my son eat breakfast and get him dressed, and then drop him off at school. We hired local college sitters. It ends up being about 1.5 hours every morning and I don’t know what we would do without that help.

          With this said, you do you. If you don’t to outsource this, that’s entirely valid.

    10. Can you off-set hours? So if your husband has to be gone from home (say) 8:00-8:00, can you be gone 6:00-3:00 or 4:00? (Not sure what your commute is and whether 9 hrs away per day would add up to a full day’s work.) It works for us in large part because my job is entirely flexible. I travel very little, and while I do have things I need to be in the office for, I can pretty much work whenever and wherever I want otherwise. Still, we do have to juggle (and bring in my MIL, who luckily lives nearby) to cobble together the 50-ish hrs/wk of childcare we need, which is 5 hrs/wk more than the au pair can work. Looking forward to the boys starting preschool in the fall!

      1. Nope, the hour thing can’t happen here. P.S. Hope this doesn’t seem stalker-ish but I’m so glad things are working for you. I remember your TTC, ART and then bed rest sagas! Very happy for you!

    11. I do not have it all. I have 2 kids and am pregnant with #3. I recently switched to a job that has a later culture (which I kind of hate, but it is what it is) but is only a 10 minute commute, so now I’m the drop-off parent. H travels at least once a month, but when he’s home, he’s able to go to work early and do pick-up. Luckily, both of us spend only 9 hours a day in the office. Our jobs are demanding, but there’s not much expectation of super long hours.

      Our kids spend 9+ hours a day in daycare, but I have some time with them every morning, and we all eat dinner together and have a couple hours in the evening before bedtime, plus weekends are work-free. Surprisingly to my pre-kid self, it doesn’t feel like anyone else is “raising our kids for us,” they just go to school every day and play with their friends. (I did feel differently when we had a nanny; to me, that felt more like someone was infringing on my status as parent, although that probably had everything to do with our particular nanny.) It is a rat race and a grind, and we’re always tired, but we make it work. You will make it work, too, whether you decide to lean way out or take the job. Good luck! Outsourcing absolutely everything possible helps a lot.

      1. Thank you. This is my fear switching to a nanny/ies. Currently everyone is in daycare and I do all pick ups and drop offs (spouse’s hours are not daycare compatible). We could afford to outsource everything – cooking, cleaning, shopping, pets – but it just starts to seem ridiculous to me. When I got the job offer, I cried. It’s an amazing job, and I’m so bummed I’ve been offered it.

        1. This was me. I’m not sure I would have felt this way with every nanny, but ours was a bad fit for me. I definitely interviewed a few who I think would have treated it more like a job and less like they were adopting my child, but I foolishly didn’t go with my gut. If this is your concern and you do end up going the nanny route, definitely keep that distinction in mind.

          Could you get a part-time nanny or two to handle drop off and/or pick up? I daydream about this, because getting the kids out the door is often the worst part of my day. If someone else did it, I could still leave for work on time, nbd if kiddos were particularly cranky and uncooperative. Plus not having to add the extra going to/from in/out of daycare time and hassle to my commutes would be great. If you can spend time with your kids in the morning, and then just come straight home from work to them, but still have them spend all day in a group setting, it might make a big difference in how you feel about the nanny thing.

          Maybe think about local college students — one of my friends did daycare pickup for twin preschoolers when we were in school. If I’m remembering right, it was <2 hours a day, she'd get them from daycare, give them a snack and maybe do a little dinner prep while they played until mom got home and settled.

          All that said, if taking this job really makes you want to cry, maybe you've answered your own question about leaning way out?

    12. I must disagree that things get easier when the kids hit elementary school. I found the preschool years the easiest because my child was in a high-quality day care/preschool program full time, she had gotten through period of constant illness that is the first couple years of day care, and I was done nursing and she was sleeping through the night. Once she got to elementary school, it took us until halfway through fourth grade to find an after-school program that was of acceptable quality and provided transportation to her sports practices. Before that program opened, we had her in a terrible after-school program where the kids had to sit on the floor in a hallway to do their homework and I had to leave work early to take her to activities; when we couldn’t bear sending her to the program any longer, I had to start working from home every afternoon so I could pick her up from school, which was highly detrimental to my career and my sanity. Even though we’ve finally got the after-school care thing worked out, the school and all after-school activities are run on the assumption that every kid has a SAHM and parents are directed that they must attend all school events, so I am always having to take the morning off to watch the student government campaign speeches, take off early to get to the 6:00 p.m. choir concert, etc. Plus that, we are extremely fortunate to be in a school district where elementary school starts early, so I can drop her off at school on my way to work–in many districts, elementary school doesn’t start until 8:30 or even 9:00, so you have to find before-school care as well as after-school care. On top of it all, there are the school projects, which are purposely set up so that parents have to help the kids a lot.

      1. Yes, it’s VERY apparent to me that life will only get harder once the kids are older. And unless something inside me changes, I will want to be there for my kids more, not less, once they’re older.

        1. I think you know what you want to do so own it and make it work for your family. I think our two parents (and step-parent) working big jobs thing only works because it matters to us to keep it going. Some families don’t have a choice but given you do, embrace it. I hope it all works out.

    13. I went part time for a few years and we moved a mile away from my mother, who helps when I travel. She’s the .5 of a nanny you need. I’m sorry this is so hard — there are no easy solutions. I think the early years were hardest, though. Mine are teenagers now and it’s a world of difference from the nanny/daycare days. I’m so glad I kept working though, especially looking at the college tuition payments I’ll start making in a few years.

    14. I have tons of advice about how to handle the logistics, some of which has already been covered by PPs, but don’t have time to post it all now. Have you thought of becoming a consultant, working out of a home office, or becoming a contractor, starting a business? This is field dependent, of course, but may be a good choice for those pre-school, early elementary years. And have you asked about project work at your prior firm? If they can’t afford you full-time, can they hire you as a consultant? Or ask the new firm to structure the job to meet your needs, be it telecommuting, part-time, flexible.

      To answer the central question: No, no one has it all, at least not all at the same time.

    15. Chiming in late…it’s tough, but you can do it if you decide you want to. Being able to afford all the help you would need makes it feasible. Other options include having an au pair plus daycare, so the au pair helps with mornings and evenings plus gives you some time to work on weekends. Or, if you have a younger cousin or other relatives in the area who’d be interested in working for you helping with the kids in addition to a nanny or daycare. Somehow either of those seems better to me than 1.5 nannies even if it’s just nomenclature. You just need to decide what you want: do you want to spend a lot of time with your family, or do you want to pursue this career right now instead of potentially doing it later (which may well not be feasible if you don’t lean in now)? There isn’t a universally right or wrong answer here.

    16. I know this isn’t going to be too helpful, and I apologize in advance. I have 3 that are a little older (10-16) and we have always made sure one of us has a flexible job. Sometimes it was me, sometimes it was Dh. I consulted from home when the boys were little. Currently Dh works part time for a polytechnic (think awesome perks like 3 weeks vacation, monthly flex days and 10 days off at Christmas). I have no idea how parents who both work demanding jobs do it. Thankfully our boys are old enough now to be home alone on days they don’t have school and Dh & I have to work.

  9. Am I crazy to consider ordering a gown from J.Crew 14 months before my wedding? They’re having their annual 25% off bridal event, and I already wanted to try on the Karlie gown. This would be $287 off so definitely not insignificant, but I was planning to wait until late this summer to try on anything. They have the same return policy on bridal as with anything else so I’m not worried about what if I hate it, it’s more what if I love it – it seems a little over the top to have a wedding dress hanging in your closet for over a year!

    1. Buy it, try it on, return it if you don’t fall in love. If you keep it – STOP LOOKING AT DRESSES – so you don’t end up sick of this one by then and buying a second one.

      1. +1. You are only a few months early anyway–I tried to buy a dress 4 months before my wedding and was told that it would be hard to order one and have it altered on that time frame.

    2. I’ve never been married, but I don’t think having a dress you love early in your engagement is crazy at all. If you love it, who cares if it sits in your closet for 3 years (assuming you are already engaged). I might look at you a little sideways if you are buying a wedding dress and you aren’t engaged, but it doesn’t sound like that is the case here. If you can potentially save money and have the safety net of a good return policy, order it!

    3. Only crazy if your weight regularly fluctuates more than one dress size. If your weight is stable, go for it!

      1. Even if your weight does fluctuate, just buy the largest size you fluctuate to and plan for alterations.

    4. It sounds like you have a date set already so no, not crazy at all. It’s a little longer than people recommend but it makes sense to buy a wedding dress well in advance for the sake of alterations anyways.

    5. It’s not crazy at all, but make yourself a promise that you will not look at or try on more dresses once you’ve purchased this one, because you are guaranteed to find something else you like and the savings of $287 will be completely insignificant if you end up buying a second dress.

    6. Thanks, everyone. My weight is stable and the wedding date is next May. I’m leaning towards ordering at this point, probably after sleeping on it for a few nights. :) I’d definitely hold off doing alterations until much closer to just in case (and promise myself to only look at accessories if I decide to keep it, since it’s such a simple dress that it could really use some sparkly accents). And if anyone needs J.Crew bridesmaids’ dresses in the near future, now is a good time!

    7. I totally did this, down to buying my dress at J. Crew. I say if you have the space to store it and you love it, go for it!

  10. MM LaFleur review… In case anyone has seen the ads but hasn’t bitten the bullet.

    Liked the Deneuve top I got. It’s in black, and while I would order again in a dark color, I would avoid the light color because the front has doubled fabric, and you get a different tone on front and back. It is not very long, however. If I was taller than 5’7″, or was long waisted, I might think twice.

    Didn’t like the Campion Sweater. The fabric is great, but they weren’t wrong when they labeled it not bust friendly. I’m super busty, and it tends to fall to the side of my bust and bunch by the arms. It also does not drape, and sticks out forward off my bust. Sadly, almost none of their sweaters are bust friendly (or at least none that are remotely my style).

    I ordered pants, but they are backordered.

  11. Friends, how much do you spend monthly on working out? Including gym memberships, classes, training, workout gear (not clothes), etc. And what do you get for your $? If you have a gym membership, what do you get that you’re not using?

    1. $89/mo- 2 classes a week at Orange Theory. I supplement that with running and doing other exercises at home, so there is not much more additional cost.

      Orange Theory makes you book your class in advance and charges you if you don’t show. This gives me much more accountability and coupled with the high monthly cost, I am much more motivated to attend compared to when I just had a $30/mo membership at some big box gym.

      1. Yes, when my yoga studio changed from 3 hour cancellation to 12 hour, my attendance improved markedly,

        I pay about £80 month for yoga 2x week

    2. Because I have a young child and extremely busy DH, I work out at home using DVDs. So unless some workout gear needs replacing (shoes, socks, sports bras) or I find some clothing on sale, I spend $0 monthly. We have sufficient equipment, such as a bench, stability ball, and adjustable weights, that we bought years ago.

    3. This year, spent $900 on used equipment from Craigslist (elliptical and rowing machine), and $40 on the Amazon Fire Stick to enable an old TV to be useful again in our “home gym.” Otherwise $0. In nice weather we go for longish but not super-intense-racing-style bike rides (our bikes were each about $500 originally – so decent quality / lightweight but not crazy expensive).

    4. I spend about 90/month. This is a BSC membership, 18 for yogaglo to do yoga at home, and a few pairs of running shoes a year. I haven’t bought new work out clothes in ages because mine just arent wearing out and honestly I get a lot of tops and tights from costco. I buy nike frees to run in on sale when they do an additional % off of clearance, so they end up being like $40 a pair. I’m pretty frugal about it these days because I’m in grad school.

      Back when I was in banking, time was my limiting factor so I paid 140/month for an equinox membership and an additional 120/month for 2 personal training sessions.

    5. I have a discounted plan to the Y through our local young professionals group. I pay $30/month which includes access to the two local Ys and I can request access to Ys in nearby towns as well. This gets me access to several pools, an indoor track, basketball courts, various classes (there are a few pay-to-play classes, but plenty that aren’t), the normal cardio and weight equipment, etc. I never pay for classes, as I don’t care much for them. I do yoga at home on my own with free videos and find the Les Mills classes and such to be boring and not useful for me. If I didn’t have the YP discount, this access would cost about $60/mo. I live in a LCOL area.

      I rarely buy new workout clothes, but when I do it’s almost always off the clearance rack at Target. I don’t care what color my workout clothes are or whether I match. The only non-Target workout clothes I have are UnderArmour running shorts which I buy on sale through their online outlet store. I don’t buy new running shoes very often, so that’s maybe once a year. If I average it out monthly for the year, it would probably come to a $15/month including the running shoe expense.

    6. Hmmm

      I spend about $165/month for a tennis / swim club for the family (so spending $, not necessarily related to use or my exercising).

      I own an aerobics step and use it while having Netflix benders (Breaking Bad, at the moment). It is awesome and can adapt to my 15-minute microbursts or an hour of slow and steady stepping. I also have some freeweights (5-7-10 pound sets). So, $100 spent once along time ago?

    7. Around $85. $25 a month for 24 hour fitness, and then $60 a month to work or with a personal trainer.

    8. Gym is $40/month. I go 5 days a week in the mornings. I probably spend $50 on work out clothes/related accessories every other month or so.

      I really want to try Orange Theory Fitness/yoga/Pure Barre classes, but compared to my gym, they’re so expensive. And I love purely lifting weights, so I wouldn’t give up a gym membership for those classes.

    9. $120. Due to childcare responsibilities, I can’t get to the gym before work (and only can manage to work out consistently if I do it at 5:30 a.m.), so I have a Peloton bike and pay $40/month for the subscription. I go to Pilates once on the weekend ($20/class). I also run outside.

      1. Late reply, but what do you think of your Peloton? I love spinning and this seems like such an amazing option…

        1. I don’t have the peloton bike but I have a cheap $300 bike and pay $13 a month for the peloton app. It doesn’t have the metrics of the fancy bike but otherwise it is the perfect workout solution for this busy working mom.

    10. For a long time it was nothing (running outside and working out at the free gym at work or at home). But the past few months I’ve picked up the very expensive habit of going to Flywheel classes 1-2 times a week. Costs about (cringe) $180 a month. But I do put class passes on my wish list for birthday/holiday gifts, so that helps. It feels like a big indulgence, but they are so fun and burn so many calories that I feel like it’s worth it!

    11. $190/month on a club membership. It’s a fairly “elite” (ugh) social and athletic club that has an extensive weight room, tons of classes that you get for no extra cost (yoga, pilates, zumba, various aerobics, etc.), multiple lap pools, squash courts, tennis courts, spa facilities (extra cost), basketball courts, restaurants (extra cost), access to banquet facilities, drop-in daycare (extra cost), and a bunch of other stuff. My kid gets in with my membership until she’s 7. We would have to buy in as a family and pay a significant initiation fee if my husband wanted to go as well, and for my kid(s) to be able to use it after ageing out of my membership.

      It’s one of those things that I use for personal reasons and for marketing purposes for my job.

    12. $65/month for my gym, which includes classes and spinning (because I am grandfathered in) and a locker with laundry service (aka you can throw your gym clothes in a mesh bag with your locker number on it and they wash all the mesh bags together and then put your bag back in your locker). I haven’t been to the gym in about 3 months though, but let’s not talk about that :-\

    13. Family membership at the YMCA (pool, classes, cardio/weights all included) is around $100/ month, but my company reimburses half of my monthly fitness costs up to $50, so it’s really only $50. I occasionally sign up for a series of yoga classes, which is an extra $200 or so over a few months.

      I don’t buy many workout clothes or accessories, so I’d guess maybe that averages out to $25/month over the year including shoes.

    14. $80/month for my gym, which has multiple locations in my major city. I can go to any location. I love the facilities and the classes.

      I also got sucked in when ClassPass had a $19 introductory trial. I loved it and was going to quit, but then they offered me $60 for five classes a month. I recognize that this is too much to spend on the gym, but I love spicing up my workouts with new gyms, and I really do work out 5-6 times a week. Plus, $12 for a gym class is better for my health than $12 out to dinner or drinks, so I justify it that way. But this will only be through the end of March. Once the weather gets nicer and I can run outside more often, that’ll be enough of a change for me from my regular gym.

      I also buy fun new workout clothes a few times a year, but I only shop at Target or Nordstrom Rack, so my gear is cheap.

      I buy sneakers 1-2 times a year. I have a pair of Brooks that I use for running and a more sleek, stylish pair of Nikes that I use for gym classes and gym cardio. I have not found a good way to get sneakers on sale, however, so I always end up paying close to $100 for them.

      Writing it all out, it looks like a lot!

    15. I spend about $75 on for a Y membership…and about $1200 month on my kids’ sports/fitness activities.

      1. Similar here. $90/month for family Y membership, $400/month for only child’s only sport. Kiddo gets priority.

    16. Thanks, everyone! Looks like I’m spending more than most, but not too far off. I am also the least motivated exerciser on earth, so I do 2x a week with a trainer, plus a 1x/week yoga class. Together they’re about $200 a month, if I go to the class every week (I purchased a ten class pass). Just trying to get a sense of whether I’m way overspending or if I am in the ballpark with the rest of the world, considering I can’t be trusted to exercise on my own without a standing appointment or pre-scheduled class. (Added bonus, when I have these standing appointments it encourages me to work out on the off days so I can not be a noodle when I go to the other sessions.)

      1. I’m the anon below who spends what seems like a crazy amount of money on exercise. I’m the same way – I don’t work out unless I have an appointment. And you know what, I would rather spend $800/mo to feel the way I do now than keep throwing away $65/mo on a gym membership I never used and $150/session on therapy to manage my anxiety. You do what works for you and your budget. Never feel guilty about spending money you can afford to spend on something that improves your mental and physical health.

        1. Agreed completely. It’s all about your priorities. If you can afford it and it’s important to you, then more power to you.

      2. Where do you find a trainer for 2x/week for $200/month? I have been working out 2x/week with a trainer to try to kick start myself, and it’s $70/session. I’m in SF.

        1. Oh wow! I’m in a college town, east coast-ish (the western part of an east coast state), so HUGE price difference from SF. It’s actually $20 per session, 2x a week (I pay $200 for 10 sessions) so $160, plus a ten-class pass for yoga (4x/week) so even less than $200 a month just for the trainer. I feel kind of bad saying that, but then, I don’t have a Nordstrom so I guess it all balances out :)

    17. Late to the party but I average around $800/mo.

      Personal training twice a week, $65 each.
      Crossfit 1-2x/week, $16 each. I think the classes are $20 each unless you buy a punchcard, which I do. I don’t go enough for a membership to make sense.
      Yoga once a week, $13 each.
      I run outside when the weather’s nice, but I just can’t get motivated to go to a gym and run on a treadmill. I dropped my gym membership ($65/mo) in favor of doing classes because I’ll actually go to the classes.

    18. $60/month gym membership. They offer a million classes, a million machines, and a pool. All classes are included in the price except Pilates reformer classes. It’s a local chain that I really love. (Sport & Health, for DC ladies.)

      I spent an extra $120 when I first joined for 4 sessions with a personal trainer.

      I get my workout clothes at TJ Maxx, but I try to shop rarely. Like 1 top and 1 bottom per year rarely. Broke + minimalist approach to having “stuff” haha. Maybe 2 new pairs of running shoes per year.

    19. $25/mo for access to Gold’s, 24 hour fitness, LA Fitness, and YMCA throughout my metro area. It’s an awesome deal that i got through my insurance. I can cancel at anytime and there was only a three-month contract and $25/initiation. Definitely check and see if your health insurance have similar programs.

    20. I think I’m about $50/month for Goodlife Fitness. That includes lots of classes. I run outside (rarely on the treadmill) and Go to the gym to lift weights a couple times a week plus I try to attend Body Pump once a week. No other classes, no trainer, etc.

    21. $110/month for unlimited yoga classes at my regular studio. I go to approximately 3-4 classes per week. Actually, I go more often than that when I’m home, but when I’m traveling I don’t go at all, so it averages out to 3-4/week. I keep track of how often I attend to make sure that a monthly membership still makes financial sense over buying individual class packs.

      I also occasionally use free weights or the elliptical or stationary bike that I have at home, which I’ve had for years. All sunk costs there.

      I occasionally spend ~$15 for a drop-in dance class somewhere in the city. Probably less than 2x/month.

  12. I just accepted an offer for an in-house position. I’m staying at my current biglaw firm for nine more days because there is a big project that I have been really involved in which is wrapping up. My birthday is on the 29th and since it only happens once every four years I’m taking a day for me. I start my in-house position on March 1st. It’s a big pay cut but I paid off my loans so I don’t mind. I’m looking forward to having evenings and weekends off, not having to pull all nighters and to be able to have a life again. Just wanted to share with people who understand. My parents and family have no idea about the differences between biglaw and in-house, they were just happy for me because I am happy.

    1. Congrats! I went in-house just a few months ago and it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I am working half as much as when I was a litigation associate (a big part of it is that my commute went down from 1 hour to 5 minutes each way). I have yet to work evenings or weekends. I am doing mostly contract review, which admittedly isn’t that interesting to me but hallelujah to having my life back! Definitely enjoy your leap day birthday and look forward to being free from biglaw!

      1. Can you share any advice on finding an in house position as a litigation associate? I’ve heard these jobs are few and far between.

        1. It was a challenge, to be sure, but I wasn’t that senior (clerkship + 2 years), so I applied to a lot of junior-level positions. I was lucky to find a company that had a history of hiring former litigators to do corporate work, so they were the ones vetting the applications and didn’t think it was weird I was applying to a corporate position. Just keep on trying and don’t ever not apply because you think you don’t have the “right” experience. You never know when something will work out.

    2. Congratulations! Great that you were able to pay off your loans before the move too.

    3. Hello from the other side :) I went in-house earlier this year as well. Allow yourself to adjust… going from 12+ hour days to 8.5 hour days meant a lot of free time that I previously didn’t have… which is, of course, exactly what I wanted but I kind of didn’t know what to do with myself. I’m finally adjusting to having weeknight time to run errands/keep up the house/text with friends rather than cramming everything into the weekend! It took several months to finally stop reaching for my timesheets, checking email constantly (now only occasionally at night/weekends; unless something is “hot” my phone is not glued to my side after work any more), and I get MUCH better sleep.

      I will admit to missing my old colleagues though!

    4. Congrats!! I went in-house from my biglaw firm a little over a year ago and it was the best career decision I’ve ever made. I went through serious Impostor Syndrome my first few months at the company, but things are SO MUCH better and I have such a better quality of life.

    5. Congrats! I made a similar switch earlier this year (with a pitstop in some boutique litigation firms between BigLaw and In House) and I couldn’t be happier! It’s *weird* not having to keep track of my hours, and not feeling like everything is an emergency all the time. But I am really enjoying it, and I’m still learning a ton and developing new skills. (And honestly, I’m loving working with non-lawyers sometimes too.)

      1. I am in the same city! Could you share a little more about how you found something in-house from litigation or could I email you?

  13. Here’s a random question–has anyone here attended boarding school, or sent your kids to one? I always assumed I could never afford it for my kids but then I learned a lot of them offer amazing financial aid even at our income level. It’ll be a few years until my kids reach high school age, but thinking ahead to the future, I am wondering whether this should be an option to consider along with the local high school (considered one of the best in my flyover state but has a staggering 3,000 kids, which is 50% larger than my college!).

    I recently visited my husband’s tiny, private non-boarding school for his reunion and was blown away by how nice it was compared to my public school and how diverse the course offerings and extracurriculars were. I can only imagine a school with a much larger endowment would be even more spectacular. If you went to a boarding school, did you like it? Do you think your relationships with your other family members suffered due to being away from home? Would a kid who is from a comfortably well-off but nowhere near 1% family fit in?

    1. I went to boarding school. We weren’t in the 1% and I’m not now. I’m very close to my family. My school was about 45 minutes away from home, but I boarded. My mother had also gone to boarding school. My dad went to a private day school. My brother and sister went to a different boarding school. We’re all very close and live within a few hours of each other.

      There were a lot of kids at school who weren’t rich and they did have some substantial financial aid packages. My dad, however, was – and still is – extremely fiscally responsible so we didn’t take advantage of them.

      Boarding school can be a really good thing. I know the people I went to school with so well. There are a lot of opportunities that you don’t get otherwise. There are a lot of interesting classes that I took that weren’t available at my local school and the classes were a lot smaller.

    2. I did not board personally, but as I was thinking about it, I know a ton of people who did. The religious faith I grew up in runs a girls’ boarding school (a pretty awesome one, actually – it’s associated with a women’s college and so there are lots of opportunities to take college classes and access resources there), and so many of my childhood friends boarded. A couple of my friends boarded at choir schools in the US and UK. Finally, my ex-husband boarded at a traditional NE prep school, and one of my good friends has her son in boarding school now. She’s 1%-y, but my ex-husband wasn’t, and most of the girls who I knew growing up who boarded received substantial financial aid.

      Honestly, everyone I know who boarded ranged from liking it to loving it. I can imagine that there are kids for whom it wouldn’t be right – and I think that it’s critical that the parent and child have a solid, close relationship, so the child feels comfortable expressing that it isn’t right – but the experiences in my circle have been resoundingly positive. I would also note that all of the parents in these scenarios made strong efforts to be very involved, so they would be aware of how the child was doing. There was a lot of travel to the school for weekend visits, functions, activities, etc., which I think helps – it wasn’t just waving goodbye in August and saying hello at Thanksgiving (like it is in college).

      It’s definitely something I would consider for my future children, depending on the options closer to home and the individual child’s preferences.

    3. I attended a private school from grades seven to ten after attending a regular public school from kindergarten to grade six. My family was definitely not part of the 1%. We lived in government housing and I was only able to attend the private school because I tested as gifted and I was able to attend on a needs based scholarship. I honestly don’t even think I was exceptionally gifted but since I attended a school on the poorest area of my state that was ranked the worst in the district it was easy for them to say that they couldn’t meet my needs.

      I think it varies by school. The school I attended was either for the children of some of the richest families in the country, with the odd kid like me who was there on a scholarship. If the school you are considering has a good and diverse mix of kids of different backgrounds than it should be fine for your kids and it will be great for them to meet kids from different backgrounds than them. If it is all only kids from rich 1% families than there may be issues with bullying and not fitting in. But from what you say it sounds like there shouldn’t be a problem because they offer lots of financial aid options which makes it affordable for many families. I recommend taking your kids there on a tour. If all of you like it than I say go for it.

    4. Thanks for the helpful replies! I went to a NE liberal arts college that had a lot of students who went to boarding school and sometimes felt alienated by the NE preppy environment (I was on scholarship from SoCal and had no idea how the other half lived). I was worried it might be the same at boarding school but it sounds like that isn’t necessarily the case. It’s great that those of you who went seem to have forged great friendships and had fantastic academic opportunities but not at the expense of being close to your family.

      1. I was a day student at a boarding school due to a parental move. It was good. I can see how the 4-year students (esp. the 4-year boarders) really bonded. It was very positive and life-changing for many kids, a substantial number were aid recipients.

        I was meh on it due to being new and also a teenager, but I would consider it if I had children who were so inclined. My old school is 60K a year, which is cost-prohibitive for us. But many boarding schools offer summer programs and I would send a jr high or early high school kid there just for exposure in the summer program. They are so, so pretty to look at (that said, we had a horrible cocaine problem).

      2. No personal experience, but I know 3 people who went to boarding school, all definitely in the top 1%. They all enjoyed it. one of them was really really wild in boarding school, though, lots of LGPs, drugs, etc. Not sure how common that is.

        One thing that hasn’t been mentioned — wouldn’t you miss interacting with your child on a daily basis? DH and I work full time and I’m always feeling like I don’t see my kids enough as it is. I’d find it very difficult to have them away during the week (even assuming that I saw them every weekend, which I suspect not all parents do). I also think that it is harder nowadays to raise children (with social media, school violence, bullying, drugs, etc.) and I’d want to be more present in their daily life. Plus, your child will likely be away for college so this is the last opportunity to have them at home, more than likely.

        Just offering a counterpoint.

        1. That’s definitely a good point. Of course I would miss him, but maybe the benefits of receiving a great education would outweigh that. I come from a culture where education is #1, so my priorities are probably skewed compared to others. I want him to be confident and able to think critically. I feel like my husband got those skills from going to private school where the classes were small and discussion-style rather than standard classroom lectures. I learned how to memorize and regurgitate, but not really how to think until I got to college.

          1. I’ve had co-workers who went to boarding school. I went to a well-regarded public school. None of them were better at their jobs than me (clear objective evidence), but they did have a sense of entitlement that was unmistakable – there are pluses and minuses to that. I find it unbearable but it does give certain advantages in life, I suspect. I don’t think education is the biggest thing that boarding schools do.

        2. +1. My daughter will be an adult before I know it and I’m not in any rush to have her away from her parents and siblings, since I’m almost positive she will go to college out of state. Perhaps I would feel differently if there were literally no good schools in the area, but it sounds like OP has a great public school option. If the OP is concerned about class size, why not consider non-boarding local private schools? I’ve been surprised to learn that many offer decent scholarships as well.

    5. I went to a top boarding school and loved it. I really developed a lot of self confidence through my years there. The amount of course offerings meant I got to follow my academic passions with courses that weren’t offered at my public school. I now serve on the alumni council for my school because I believe very strongly in what opportunities it can provide to kids.

      My family was upper middle class and I felt comfortable there. I knew many people on full or almost full scholarships and many of them felt comfortable as well. Most schools with larger endowments try to match aid for various extracurriculars so everyone can participate.

      I think it changed my relationship with my family but not in a negative way. The teen years are going to change that relationship anyways and boarding school just accelerates that process. With the abundance of smart phones now, communication is very easy. I will say that I valued the time I did spend with my family more instead of taking them for granted. I know my mom in particular really liked that change. I would absolutely choose boarding school again.

    6. I would just like to counter. I went to one of the largest high schools in the US. My graduating class was 1,500. It is also one of the best public high schools in the US; when I was there it was in the top 100 in the country. Because of it’s size it was able to offer pretty much every class imaginable, something that smaller high schools, even if they are private cannot do. We had every single AP class offered except for AP Italian. That’s just not something that is possible with many smaller schools because they can’t fill an AP Chinese class or an AP Music theory. I graduated with over a years worth of college credit that I was able to use and apply to my degree because of the offerings. I think boarding school would have been an awesome experience, but don’t discredit a high school because of it’s size.

      On the other hand, there are some problems with large schools. Some kids get lost. Most teachers sort of knew their students, but there wasn’t the 1 on 1 time that a lot of small school can afford. I think it depends on the kid, but I think a large school is perfect for a smart self-starter because of the opportunities. There were a lot more leadership opportunities because the teachers relied more on the kids to run things like sectionals in band and orchestra. I think they are also good for kids that might have more unique interests because there will be other kids there that have similar interests. Even the ‘loners’ and the ‘nerds’ had friend groups because there were 10 other loners they could hang out with. It is a simple numbers game.

      Being at a large school also prepared me much better for a large college. I was used to not knowing any classmates in the room. I would say my transition was significantly easier than students going to small schools. I also would say that my high school acted more similarly to a community college. We could leave during lunch, many kids did not have classes every period; there was a lot of coming and going. The handholding was kept at a minimum. It really forced kids into growing up and getting their act together. I feel like my private school friends were coddled more which personally I do not think was helpful when they reached college. I’m also 100% sure that some of the kids who went to private schools would have gotten lost and left behind in a large classroom in high school.

      I think a lot of the decision just depends on the child, but I would urge you to not rule out the high school or be afraid of it because of it’s size. If the high schoool is that big, then more than likely your kids have already been going to schools on the larger side of things.

      1. There are large and small private schools. I went to a small one because I was shy and quiet. My entire school was smaller than a single class year of the school my brother and sister went to. But then I went on to a large university and an even larger graduate school. And now I work for a university.

        You appear to be making some pretty broad statements without having any firsthand experience.

        1. Our local high school is the largest in the state. It’s well-regarded, but I’m sure that it’s less than ideal for many (which is true of most schools; what this one has is lot of options if you don’t get lost before you find them and if you don’t need handholding).

          My boarding school (I’m the day student who posted above) was tiny — 100 kids in a class in a much larger facility than our neighborhood high school; there were maybe 20 postgrads in the senior class). Most of the boarding schools I know are small.

    7. Yes, I liked boarding school. I was both a day and boarder because of a family move. I don’t think it negatively impacted my relationship with my family. Our deal was a call every night but Saturday.

      The biggest thing for me, beyond the great academic offerings and a sense of stability, was how being around high flyers with big ambitions pushed me to redefine what was good enough for me and what I could accomplish. I know boarding school taught me to set my sights higher and keep pushing until I got somewhere right for me.

      Also, others have mentioned this, but my boarding school was much more diverse than the equivalent public school I would have attended.

      1. I went to a non-first tier boarding school from a dismal public school where I was a high flyer and had similar friends. I was amazed at how many people boarding school weren’t like that. Like they wanted to make sure that they got into a good party school for college, but not anything that (to me) justified the 100K (back in the day) price tag. Lots of kids where the parents still had $ after the divorce and didn’t get along with dad’s new wife and new baby. Lot of parents getting their kid out of NYC and out to the country for school. I was middle-class and knew I needed to work hard, but not so much with my peers.

    8. I went to a top boarding school. Classes Mon-Sat, sport every afternoon. It was very high pressure, but compared to my (easy) public high school in the midwest where people teased me for being a nerd, it was heavenly. I had a strong sense of self and was a rule follower so I didn’t do a lot of the bad stuff that almost everyone else there did. Way worse drugs and sex than in public school. Classes were super hard, but small and with great teachers. When I got to my top university I got straight A’s my freshman year and it was easy in comparison. I had already learned how to read and write papers. By sophomore year the other kids had caught up and I had to work harder. What was hard for me was being so far from home, the other kids were really different from me (mostly rich New Englanders and rich New Yorkers; there is a level of sophistication there I still lack — thats why I left the East Coast!)

      1. I also went to a boarding school that had classes Mon-Sat on the East Coast, with sports every afternoon and games on Wed and Sat. I was such a dork that I only found out about the sex and drugs when students were kicked out for them.

        I didn’t think the classes were hard exactly, but they were a lot harder than public school. And then I went on to a top university, too. There were some glamorous kids, but most of them were pretty similar to me. I was just shyer and dorkier.

  14. What’s your favorite beauty product in the $30 range? This is for a gift exchange, so I’m open to anything that isn’t skin tone specific. Preferably something available at Sephora. Thanks!

    1. Farmacy cucumber sheet masks. I have really dry, sensitive skin, and these moisturize incredibly without any irritation.

      1. I would say not Bosica. They use coconut oil which can cause breakouts for someone people. Their melting cleanser really upset my skin.

        Maybe Fresh Sugar Lip Balm in rose?

        1. Personal preferences, I suppose. Fresh scents their products way too much, they irritate my snout. I love the pink Boscia beauty oil a lot.

  15. I hope it’s okay for me to ask a question here even though I am still a student. I’m in my last year of law school. I have decided that I don’t ever want to work in biglaw. I’ve heard too many bad things and seen too many people get chewed up and spit out or burned out. I don’t care if I never make partner at a biglaw firm or get one of their huge bonuses.

    Everyone I have told this to has tried to convince me that I am making a big mistake. Even my parents and other family members, none of whom are lawyers , have said that I should work in biglaw, at least at the start of my career and for as long as I can.

    I plan on looking for a position in a small, midsize or boutique firm or somewhere in-house or with the government. I would like to ask anyone here who has worked as a lawyer or in the legal field if me deciding not to work in biglaw (at least at first) is a mistake. Would it really affect my career as much as everyone is telling me. Thank you in advance to anyone who responds.

    1. Do you have student loans? If so, suck it up for a year or two. If not, there are many happy lawyers who have never practiced big law.

      1. I have a full quotient of student loans, have never practiced in Biglaw and am glad I haven’t. You can pay off your student loans on government or mid-size law salaries (not as fast) and still maintain a good quality of life.

    2. Well if it’s February of your 3L year and you don’t have a Big Law job then I would say the decision has already been made. But I agree with Anon at 11:19 above. If you don’t have loans or they are pretty small: congrats, enjoy your happy life. If you have significant debt, it is hard to pay it off quickly without a Big Law-type salary and I would urge you to consider the possibility of just working there for a year or two, continuing to live on your frugal student budget and throwing ALL your money at the loans, and then getting out.

    3. Nope, not a bad attitude at all. Just remember depending on your background, those non-big law jobs may be harder to get than big law. I had no problem out of law school getting lots of offers for jobs that would pay me $180,000 – I could not find a public interest job, and that was what I was looking for. Depends on geography as well, obviously, but keep your options open!

    4. I don’t think it’s a mistake to not work in Biglaw. (And frankly, if you didn’t summer at a Biglaw firm and you’re a 3L now, your prospects are slim anyway). If you have loans, I do think it’s a mistake to work in the private sector for a job that pays comparable to a government position, because then you are giving up the possibility of loan forgiveness or your school’s LRAP. Sometimes you don’t have a choice, but if possible, I’d go the government route. You probably will not be able to get an in-house job straight out of law school.

    5. If you’re lucky-to-normal, Biglaw will give you excellent training and exit options alongside a rather, ahem, intense few years. If you’re unlucky, Biglaw will treat you consistently miserably and you’ll want to quit after a month.

      I will say that it is easier to find a place at any of those employers (smaller firm, in-house or government) with a Biglaw pedigree of a few years. Also, be wary of thinking a smaller or midsize firm automatically = better lifestyle; my husband worked for 4 years at a midsize firm and was pulling just as bad of hours as I was, for about 50-60% of the pay.

      I will also say that it’s easier to start in Biglaw and leave (because the recruiting process is so geared to law students), than to later realize you want that experience and try to lateral in after a few years.

      Ultimately, however, it’s your life and career!

    6. You know yourself best. You can have an excellent legal career in any of the areas you mention. I likewise was not interested in biglaw. I went into government first and now am a partner at a small firm. I work with nice people, have a good work-life balance, and make decent money. The only caveat I’d raise is that if you have huge student debt (I did not), it may make sense financially to put in a few years of Biglaw to pay down your debt.

    7. (Reposting as my previous comment disappeared)

      If you’re lucky-to-normal, Biglaw will give you excellent training and exit options alongside a rather, ahem, intense few years. If you’re unlucky, Biglaw will treat you consistently miserably and you’ll want to quit after a month.

      I will say that it is easier to find a place at any of those employers (smaller firm, in-house or government) with a Biglaw pedigree of a few years. Also, be wary of thinking a smaller or midsize firm automatically means better lifestyle; my husband worked for 4 years at a midsize firm and was pulling just as bad of hours as I was, for about 50-60% of the pay.

      I will also say that it’s easier to start in Biglaw and leave (because the recruiting process is so geared to law students), than to later realize you want that experience and try to lateral in after a few years. However, now that you’re a 3L, this decision has probably already made itself anyway.

      Ultimately, however, it’s your life and career!

    8. I made the same decision as you. I decided not to go to BigLaw and instead, interviewed only at relatively small firms.

      Grass is always greener, so take this with a grain of salt. I wish I would’ve made big law money for the first couple of years. I haven’t made a dent in my loans because I was making a fraction of what I would’ve made at Big Law. And, I did really well at my smaller firm and they offered for me to buy in after about 7 years. I wouldn’t really afford it but I bit the bullet because I didn’t want to pass up the opportunity. I should’ve known better but because I couldn’t afford to be an equity partner, it ended badly financially for me. So, now I’m pretty far into my career with a ton of student loans still and other debt to match. It would’ve been smarter to make double (or more than double) the salary at the beginning and suck it up and throw the money at the loans. At a small place, I still worked a ton especially the first few years. While I was really happy and loved the people, for the amount I was working, it would’ve been a smarter financial decision to just suck it up at Big Law.

      Again, I recognize this may be a grass is greener, financial regret position. I loved my small firm. I got great experience and was handling really interesting things on my own with great mentors really quickly. The people there were like family. That’s worth something, so I guess I don’t totally regret it. But, it’s definitely a trade off.

    9. Actually, only a small percentage of lawyers ever work a day of their lives in biglaw, and a good number of those are perfectly happy in their careers (whether it’s a boutique firm or government or what have you).

      I do think if you have the chance to do it for a few years, the opportunity to make that much money and pay off debt/start significant savings funds isn’t something you should discard lightly. You could make a plan to stay for say, 3 years, live frugally, then be free.

      But, again, it’s an opportunity the vast majority of lawyers, let alone people, never have – and a great many people manage to make it through life without that money and have reasonably comfortable lives. Remember YOU are the one who will have to work those 80 hours weeks, not your family members.

      1. *OTHER people…hahaha…. Even as a lawyer I have to remind myself from time to time that lawyers are people too. :)

    10. I assume this means you have/had an offer working in such a firm?

      I’d say that if you definitely want to work in public service or government, it may not matter much. But I’m not sure I understand why you’d expressly prefer a midsize or even small firm since most of those expect you to work just as much but for less pay, at least in my experience (obviously there are exceptions but that’s true for big law firms too; culture varies everywhere). As to whether it’s a mistake, I think it depends on your options and your career goals. Obviously, esp. if you have student loans, money is one big factor. If you can work a few years with the express goal of being done with your loans quickly, that’s huge.

      But something that’s mentioned a lot less is the certain credibility that working at a big law firm gets you. It might not be fair, but having 2-3 years of Fancy Firm LLP on your resume will open many doors for you throughout your career, just like having certain schools will always do the same. I know a judge who spent most of her career in public defender type organizations and who is a very liberal judge but she spent her first 2 years working in a very white shoe law firm and always credits it with helping in her career, including in getting on the bench (even as she says she didn’t actually learn how to practice law there). I have another friend whose career goal was always to be head of a non profit legal services org and she spent a few years working in big law before switching to her non-profit role and finds the contacts she made to be very helpful for her fundraising, pro bono work, etc.
      It sounds like you are foreclosing this career path because you “have heard too many bad things” but law is stressful in most places, and you’re hardly guaranteeing yourself a more collegial work environment by going to a smaller-sized firm, and many of the more competitive gov’t agencies can be just as competitive/high pressure. Assuming you have the option, I think you’ll have a lot more options before you long term if you spend a few years at well-known firm, and either way if culture is what matters to you, you should focus on that and not the midsize vs. biglaw vs. govt aspect.

    11. I definitely agree with the comments about timing — unless you have a job lined up and are considering backing out? I summered at a BigLaw firm and attempted to find something else (‘doing good’?) for after 3L, but there was no one who was interested in me. So I sucked it up at BigLaw for 2.5 miserable years, paid off my loans and saved enough to take a kind of ridiculous fellowship (that wouldn’t have covered my loan payments), then, once I had more concrete experience, worked my network and landed work at smaller boutique-y firms. Now I’m in house at a not for profit! It seemed impossible when I was in 3L, unable to get my foot in this door, but 8 years out, here I am.

      Long story short: BigLaw sucks, but you can always quit, and paying off your loans gives you a lot of freedom.

    12. If you have an offer, consider going for 2 yrs. The financial boost can be really helpful, and the biglaw name can open doors. Frankly it can be very hard to get hired in government or in-house right out of school. You’re only half-baked as a new JD with, generally, no expertise in any area. If you put in a couple of years at a big brand name firm, you’ll be much more valuable to other employers. Plus you’ll be in good company. Maybe 10% of new associates at big firms want to make partner, and only about 1-5% of them actually do. The rest are there to pay off loans, make connections, and get a foot in the door at other employers.

    13. Thank you everyone for your responses.

      I do have some student loans to pay but since I had a partial scholarships for both undergrad and law school but I did some budgeting and figured out that as long as I have a salary of $45,000 a year I can pay off my loans in 12 months. I have no other loans or debt to pay off.

      I did summer at a biglaw firm which is part of what opened my eyes to how things work there. I have quite settled with what area of law I want to work in, but I am open to trying different things and learning as much as I can. I know I have to pay my dues when I first start out but I really don’t want the long; stressful, consuming biglaw hours and culture.

      1. I did BigLaw for 5 years and went in with zero debt (full scholarship to law school). So while the salary was certainly nice, I didn’t do it for the purpose of paying back loans. I agree with others that the name brand on one’s resume is significant and opens doors, particularly for someone like who didn’t go to a Top 30 law school. I think it also may have helped me land my federal clerkship.

        With that said, there are many happy and successful lawyers who never venture into Big Law.

        1. I also think that it’s worth considering whether you need those doors opened for you by Biglaw. I think a lot of people who end up at prestigious law schools and have a shot at Biglaw jobs have spent their entire life doing the most prestigious thing and opening the most doors possible. At a certain point, you get to–and have to–make a choice to not keep doing that. For some people, that’s when they decide not to take a Biglaw job and they never regret it (I didn’t).

          I think it’s worth thinking seriously about when it’s time to step off the generalist prestige path, and it’s worth thinking about that at all your decision points. (Including, of course, when you apply for law school in the first place and certainly when you’re deciding what job to take after.)

      2. So you have about $15k or less in student loans? A salary of $45k will only give you $2500/month to live on, after taxes. Even if you’re in a LCOL area, make sure you remember taxes.

        If you hate biglaw, don’t do it. But if you can do it for 1-2 years, as others have said, it will give you options and open doors for the rest of your career. (Not to mention, it will allow you to create a financial cushion other people can only dream of.)

      3. Late reply but want to add my perspective

        I’m a recent law school graduate, choose to go to a smaller midsized firm, which is the top firm regionally in the practice area. I do want to get experience in a few somewhat related areas for my long term career plans, which will be more difficult due to this choice (I can get the basics for some here, but much of it is too sophisticated of work).
        Even though I make less than I was hoping, I’m able to pay back my loans (slooooowly), afford a frugal but comfortable lifestyle, and save money. I’m happy with my work, gaining a LOT of experience for so early in my career, and get to have a life outside of work.
        A lot of my friends in BigLaw are working constantly, can’t make/keep plans, etc. A few work a lot but have mostly predictable schedules. All of them say they don’t think they are learning much, feel like paper pushers more so, but look forward to the good this will do down the line (and are making a very decent amount, of course).
        Depends on you personally, of course, but I don’t regret my decision. I’m already moving up at work and hope to continue to do so/monetarily move up soon as well.

    14. Just a slightly different perspective on this: I chose Biglaw and love it, but I was looking at big, mid, and small law and chose very, VERY carefully (so some of this depends on how choosy you can be based on the grades and offers you have). I chose a firm that was headquartered locally because many of my friends were frustrated with stupid bureaucratic policies made on the other side of the country, whereas I can go straight to the managing partner if I have a problem.My firm is very strong in my practice area, so I’m never short on work. The office is a 10-minute commute from my house so if I have more free time. I also knew my particular branch has low facetime requirements and a great work from home policy, so I can pretty much work on my own schedule as long as I get stuff done and show up for the important stuff like filings and trial.

      So if you hated biglaw after a summer, I’d caution you to not write off ~all~ biglaw and maybe consider trying a different firm or office environment. But on the flip side, I’ve seen many friends at this and other firms leave because they are unhappy with the lifestyle so it’s entirely reasonable and rational of you to be leery of that, and BigLaw is by no means a great place for everyone.

    15. If you read these boards, then you read everyday all these women complaining about biglaw, drying their tears with huge paychecks so they can quit after a few years.

      Stick to your guns and go small/med-law. Go nonprofit. Go government. Do what will make you happy.

  16. How much before on campus recruiting does it make sense to start networking? Should I start making these connections now for submissions in the late summer/early fall and interviews shortly thereafter, or should I wait until the summer?

    1. It depends on how naturally you can do it. I don’t think it makes sense to completely cold-call a firm or send them a random letter before OCR. But if your law school has some networking events that you can attend that may put you in the path of people at those various firms, then you definitely should attend. And if you have any personal connections to law firms, play those up. Take people out to coffee. Some of the firms may have meet and greets for 1Ls this Spring, before OCR. Check those out.

      1. Everything I would be doing now would be through personal connections, and I have several friends who have offered to put me in touch with whomever I want. I’m just a little concerned that like anonymous below says, those relationships will be harder to maintain and it’ll feel artificial when I contact them in the future.

        1. I guess I agree with the anon below, but on the point that “if you are networking to understand options and figure out what you want to do . . . then start now.” That’s really what you should be doing all the time for networking at this stage. Meeting someone for coffee and asking them questions about what they do, why, how they got there, what their firm is like, what they like about other firms, etc., is your goal here. They will ask you some follow up questions that will allow you to demonstrate your various credentials and interest in their firm. Then you build on that relationship – do another follow-up lunch; if you are part of any group at school that hosts various lectures, try to integrate your personal contacts into those lectures; etc.

    2. Depends. One disadvantage of starting too early is that you have to work harder to maintain the relationship. If you let anything lag, you are not really top of mind. I’d suggest 1-2 months prior to resume drop date, max.

      That said if you are networking to understand options and figure out what you want to do… then start now.

  17. There’s an interesting interview with Gavin de Becker in today’s Lenny newsletter, if any of you are interested. I haven’t read his book, and only know of him through thissite and thought it was fascinating.

  18. If you were the only female associate or senior counsel at your firm, and the big (~15 people) group of male associates goes out together regularly, would you feel obligated to go? I have less than zero desire to go. They regularly go to brewery-type places and I don’t like beer and they almost exclusively talk about things I have very little interest in, like cars, sports and hunting. When I do try to participate in the conversation (I watch some college football) I get talked down and mansplained to. In addition to being miserable myself, I feel like I am holding them back from saying more bro-y things because they don’t want to offend me, and everyone would be happier if I didn’t go. But I don’t want to hurt my standing in the firm. What would you do? For what it’s worth, I’ve never had a problem getting along with guys in past jobs and would even say I tend to generally get along better with men than women in the workplace. But I’ve never dealt with a huge clique of guys like this before. If it matters I’m more senior than most of them and should theoretically make partner before all but a couple of them.

    1. That sounds really unpleasant, and if they were your peers I would probably say you should go anyway, but since you are senior to them you totally get a pass to not crash their bro time.

    2. Sounds like hell.

      I wouldn’t go. But if they ever go somewhere other than the usual brew house (ex. dinner), then I might try to go occasionally, and would sit next to the person/people who have a bit broader group of interests. And MAYBE once in a blue moon, I would try to go…. especially if there was a reason to celebrate.

      Curious…. do they invite you?

    3. Are there female partners at your firm? If so, I’d try to get in on that if you’re a senior female associate, but I’m guessing it’s unlikely based on your description of the firm. Under these circumstances, I’d go once in a while (once every couple of months or something) and have two drinks and leave. But it does not sound fun – sorry.

    4. I would definitely go sometimes, not always. Seriously, though, can’t you just — change the conversation? There has got to be something you have in common with those guys — politics, your horrible boss, best tv shows on right now. Whenever people around me are talking about something that I can’t contribute to, I listen politely for a little while, and then when there’s a lull, I say something like, “So how about the latest crazy thing that Donald Trump said?”

      1. Ha, a large number of them are Trump supporters, believe it or not…really not exaggerating when I say I have no common ground with them. I also think it’s hard to change the conversation when it’s a big group and everyone but you is interested in the current topic. I have no problem talking to most of these guys one on one, but in a group all their shared interests (that I don’t share) dominate the conversation.

        Thanks all for the comments! There are actually a couple of female partners at my firm but they’re much older and way more senior and I would feel weird asking them to socialize with me (they do invite me to lunch occasionally and of course I always say yes). I don’t think the guys invite me to everything they do, but they do invite me once in a while. I definitely get the sense that they invite me because they feel an obligation to do so, not a genuine desire to have me there.

        1. I would try to go with the guys every other time they invite you. Or maybe once a quarter. It’s important to try to maintain the relationship, and maybe someday they’ll go do something you actually want to attend! If this firm isn’t your forever firm, maybe you can skip more often than every other time.

        2. I think your description that they are Trump supporters says a lot.

          I would go when the event is somewhat interesting to you, and skip if not, assuming not every event is the same. You could also volunteer to help organize, and try to steer the event to a less bro-y atmosphere.

          I’m lucky in that while I work in a make dominated field (at least at the upper level), I’ve always been a tomboy and can hold my own in most guy conversations/events. I also think coming in with a few more detailed conversation points will help avoid the mansplaining. Don’t ask them about their football team, ask how they think the team’s offensive line looks (and do a quick Google on recent articles so you can stay in the conversation).

    5. Split the difference – go out for 1 drink and then beg off.

      And this is totally an aside, but I have to ask. Have you tried a lot of different styles of beers? Belgian? Gose? Sours? What about ciders? Good beer places should have something that will appeal to you. Alternatively, suggest that the group split a large format beer and just take a couple of sips of whatever. It will give you something to talk about other than sports and cars and whatever they’ll mansplain to you.

    6. If you want to build better relationships, definitely go. Try lots of beers you won’t like – you may like it eventually. Try to command conversations on non-horrible topics -position yourself near the end so you can get a subset of people to talk to. Ask them a lot of questions about themselves. I know it sucks, but I’ve gotten real benefits from making myself do things like this I even enjoy it on occasion. You don’t need to like the people. Consider it a game where you float around being charming and bro out with them.

  19. I think I like these pants, but are skinny pants still in style? Are you still buying them?

  20. Can I get some suggestions of what to wear for this? Doesn’t have to be white. Going to do early fall, and will likely be very warm and dry at that time where I live.

    1. Take a look at the blog Amid Privilege. She got married at SF City Hall in a gorgeous dress!

Comments are closed.