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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 221 Comments · by

Thursday’s TPS Report: Jacquard Blazer

The Personal Shopper (TPS)· Under $150

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Zara Jacquard BlazerZara has a number of cute blazers right now. Particularly, I'm lusting over this fun green jacquard blazer (as well as this wide-striped blazer). I'd wear the green jacquard blazer to work with black, gray, white, or navy, and accent with purples or brighter blues. The blazer is definitely a bit of a statement piece, but I could see it being great for networking cocktail parties. It's $99 at Zara. JACQUARD BLAZER Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-0)

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

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Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

    • cb

      Me too which is a pity. On this apparently futile quest to find something to wear overa dress fora wedding.

      • AIMS

        What about one of Zara’s Kimono jackets — they have several cute ones and honestly I want to get all of them and wear them everywhere (though, alas, they would definitely not be okay for my office).

      • kim

        Agreed; the cut is akin to something my mother wore in the 80s or 90s. It’s too long and boxy.

        • Meg Murry

          Yes, this is the problem I have with 80s/90s cuts and colors coming back into fashion – my mother wore them for too long, so when I hear “cobalt blue blazer” I immediately flash to my mom’s blue blazer that was her go-to for many, many (too many) years, long after the cut was in style, and I think “frumpy”. I wonder if this is what she felt like when boot cut/flared leg pants came back in style when I was in high school/college, and some of my friends took it to costume-like extremes.

    • Matilda

      Also, I realize that this is probably just the result of the pose, but it’s REALLY bugging me that the two sides seem to be different lengths. Such a beautiful fabric, though. I wonder if one of those jacket clips would work with it (the ones that you can use to nip a jacket together in the back)?

  2. Anon

    For all the lawyers reading this blog who have any sort of niche practice: how did you get into your specialized practice area? Did it happen by chance, did you always know you wanted to do x, or did you have a general idea of what you wanted to do and it developed from there? Or something else?

    I am a new attorney, and I’m realizing more and more that developing an area of expertise is important. I am currently clerking, and I have broad ideas of what I like, but nothing super particular. What advice do you have for someone in my position who is trying to find a niche? Additionally, I lack work experience between undergrad and law school, and I’m wondering what else I can draw on to differentiate myself from the rest of the massive pool of entry level candidates. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

    • Abby Lockhart

      Are you going into litigation? I would challenge your statement that developing a niche is important with respect to litigators.

    • Julep

      I work in a niche and really like the work I do. However, my skills are so specialized that I am essentially limited to practicing in a few large cities.

      One thing that can diferentiate you on the job is an understanding of the underlying business issues. There’s a legal solution to a problem, and then there’s the business solution (which will vary from client to client.) You don’t have this type of insight now, but keep it in mind as you develop your skills. Your clients will appreciate it.

    • roses

      This was discussed a little bit in yesterday’s thread, and it seems like my experience mirrors a lot of other people’s: I never chose my area outright, it was just what my first project happened to be and I liked the people I worked with and they came back to me when they had more work. I’m really lucky though that my firm does not have inflexible practice groups, so I woud recommend that unless you absolutely have to decide before you start your job, work on a variety of projects at first.

      Also, my expertise involves a lot of stuff with computers and technology. I had no expertise in this whatsoever before, but I picked it up quickly, and it’s nice because I can develop expertise quickly. I know just as much about computer security standards for a particular type of company as the partner, since the standards were just developed in the past two years. But I know if I had joined, for instance, the Bankruptcy group, it would take years and years for me to be even half as competent as the best lawyers in the field.

    • Diana Barry

      I got into my practice area through figuring out what I didn’t like. As background, I was in a t14 school and summered in two biglaw places. I didn’t like litigation because fighting! and I didn’t like corporate because companies, impersonal, boring. I didn’t have a science background so couldn’t do IP and all the regulations around labor/employment didn’t interest me at all. So I went for real estate or T+E, and one of the places where I summered had a T+E opening, so there I was. Lucky that I like it.

      Maybe if you give us an idea of the things that you like? Also, talking to attorneys in different areas might help you, like informational interviews where you ask them what they do in a typical day.

      • OP

        I am interested in litigation or possibly bankruptcy, but I haven’t ruled much else out either. One thing I failed to mention is that I don’t have a job lined up for after I clerk. So, in large part, I am motivated by trying to figure out how I should direct my focus even now, in this uncertainty, in such a way that I can set myself up to develop some kind of expertise that will (eventually) be uniquely valuable to a firm or company. I’m concerned with marketing myself just as much as finding the thing I truly love – I think I could be content doing a number of things but want to strategically choose a direction to pursue. I realize that, given the market, there is a distinct possibility that I will have to take whatever job is available and go from there. I guess I want to figure out how to chart my own course as much as possible even though it feels like its largely beyond my control right now.

        • January

          I dealt with a similar problem while I was clerking. Unfortunately I do not have time to write about my experience in any detail right now, but I will try to come back this afternoon.

          • bgo

            I work in a very specialized niche in litigation. I clerked and then worked in a small general litiagtion firm for a few years to get as much on the ground experience as possible. I worked on all sorts of different things, securities, product liablity, family law, business issues. I then decided after about three years to move on. I used a recruiter at that point and basically told her, like others on here, what I did not want to do and what I did. I also told her I was open to the “odd ball idea.” My current practice is the “odd ball” – but I love it. I do very hig level expert witness work for a defense of a specific product. It is very specialized and I have been doing it 6 years now, and while yes, it may limit things a little long term to be highly specialized there is also something to be said that to a certain extent – skills are skills and landing any new job is how you can market and spin yourself. I think had I not take the more “general” job after clerking I never would have known that this was the right fit. There is a lot to be said about getting general experience early to figure out what you like and what you are good at (especially in a very broad field like litagation).

          • January

            Ok, back. I echo bgo in that now, while you are looking for a job post-clerkship, is not the time to narrow your focus or to choose a specialization (unless you happen to be clerking in bankruptcy court or otherwise specialized court, or you had a particular focus in law school and can claim somewhat specialized knowledge of that area). What I found, as law clerk, was that by naming areas I was interested in, practitioners would steer me away from other, better opportunities in this town towards opportunities that tangentially related to what I said I wanted. Geography was a high priority for me, so there may be a matter of figuring out what your priorities are, as well. As for what sets you apart, you’re a law clerk!! You likely have strong research and writing skills, attention to detail, and the ability to develop expertise in a relatively short period of time. You are also more familiar with the courtroom and the litigation process than the average bear. Good luck!

        • O.

          I am a commercial bankruptcy attorney at a large firm. I fell into the group; when I summered I had planned to work in a more general litigation practice but the economy fell apart and my firm needed a bankruptcy litigator and asked me to switch. I’m glad I did because I really like bankruptcy. If you are committed to bankruptcy, I would make the following suggestions for finding a job: (1) get a bankruptcy clerkship and (2) start attending local bankruptcy events (with your local bankruptcy bar, local ABI conferences, etc.). The bankruptcy bar is pretty small and most people seem to get hired informally through connections rather than in response to a job posting (at least in the 2 large cities where I have practiced).

    • JJ

      I also think it comes with practice. I work in a specialized firm (labor and employment), but there are so many opportunities for specialization within that practice. For me, I happened to have two cases dealing with similar issues (and I enjoyed them), word got out to other attorneys that I had dealt with those issues before when they arose in other cases, and suddenly I’ve developed an expertise in that area.

      If you enjoy something that you’re working on, let people know. Ask for additional, similar opportunities from that same partner. Follow legal updates on that subject. Eventually, word will get out and people will come to you for advice on that topic.

    • Ellen

      Great Jacket, KAT! I hope to be skinney enough to wear the one I have!!! FOR THE OP, I got into my job by accidedent! I did NOT even know what WC law was when I bumped into the manageing partner in an elevator. I had a crappy job as a process server, and was tryieng to find a company to serve the process to when I struck up a conversation with him, and he saw something in me that he liked! So all of a sudden, I found myself with a choice. Keep up my contact with the manageing partner for a potential new job after the BAR, or keep hunting for other job’s where the men onley wanted to date me, not hire me. Because my dad told me that he did NOT send me to law school to be some guy’s eye-candy (or to be some old guy’s sugar mama), I decided to keep up with the manageing partner, so that after the BAR, he gave me a FULL TIME job as a litiegator, doing mostley Workman’s Compensation defense law. I think I kind of fell into this, b/c I was NOT even abel to find a law school class that would REALY teach me this stuff, and beside’s, almost all of the law profesor’s at GW did not do this kind of law. They were mostley constituional scholar’s, and many were interested in working on the HILL. FOOEY! I did NOT want to work on the HILL, b/c most times I went there, a swarm of looser’s all wanted to show me around, and I did NOT like these guy’s all over me. DOUBEL FOOEY!

      So see what you like, and then see if you can find a manageing partner to mentor you, like I did. YAY! He is very good to me. You should make sure to ask if you can also have a clotheing allowance, if you are goieng into court, like me. It pay’s off in the long run. GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

    • Matilda

      I completely fell into my niche area. Basically, I finished up my clerkship in the earlier years of the really bad economy, and pretty much applied for everything that was open and not Biglaw (I hadn’t summered in Biglaw, so I knew I didn’t have a shot and didn’t want to waste my time). The application process was pretty comical (Dear Employer, Why YES, I have always DREAMED about handling transactional law involving farm animals and pedigrees in Kansas, even though I’ve never lived anywhere but the East Coast and don’t know a thing about cows other than that they go “moo”!), and very discouraging, and I pretty much decided to forget about the practice area and focus on whether I liked the people interviewing me.

      The firm I fell into was an absolutely wonderful employment firm run by some excellent mentors, and it broke my heart when I had to leave them so I could move closer to my family. Ironically, throughout my clerkship I said I’d never want to do employment law, but I actually like it a great deal and am continuing to practice in that area. So I would say you should be open to applying for all kinds of practice areas, even those you aren’t sure you’re interested in doing.

    • I am a banana.

      I fell into it when I was hired by a boutique firm. Echo the statement above that you need to be careful – I feel like my potential future practice is extremely limited to this one area now.

    • Anonymous

      I was convinced I was going to be an environmental attorney, so I got a joint degree with an MSEL. When I graduated I had a hard time finding any job, so where I landed was in a family law position-never would I have picked this area of law but it paid the bills. I now have a general practice with a large percentage of my cases being family law. I have yet to do any environmental law in the nine years I have been practicing. You never know what job opportunities will be available, so keep your mind open to what might come along.

  3. Biglaw Anon

    I’m a 6th year associate in biglaw, on maternity leave after having my first child. I’m also 33. It’s occurred to me that I really want more kids — 2 or 3 more, if I could swing it, but it feels like I’m running out of time, both biologically and career-wise. I have a good shot at making partner. Would it ruin my chances if I have another kid in my 8th year? (I assume is have to defer being “up” by a year, if I take maternity leave in my 8th yr.) Anyone have any experience with this? If I delay the second kid until after the partnership vote, I don’t see how I’d have time for a third (much less a fourth).

    • Anon Mom

      You have time. I’m getting ready to have my third at 37. My advice would be to have another baby when you are ready to have another baby, regardless of the perfect planning at work. You can’t really perfect the timing. If you wait until after you become partner, what happens if it’s delayed a year? I watched the partner track at my firm go from 7 years to really 9-10 years after 2008 (coincidentally, when I was a 7-10th year associate). With my first pregnancy, I thought I planned it perfectly, only to come back from maternity leave to a merger and a whole new reality. Plan what works for your life (with a reality of wanting to have 3-4 children), and let the work follow. Note that you also may change your mind once you have children. I always wanted 4, and it took me 5 years after my twins were born to be talked into a third.

      As far as the actual job effects, I think it depends a lot on your firm. A maternity leave early in the year you are up for partner wouldn’t hurt your partnership chances at my firm or cause you to have to defer partnership for a year. Really, I’ve seen people who were out on maternity leave when the decision was made, and I don’t think the maternity leave is what kept them from making partner.

      Also, the whole “ticking clock” is relative. We did do IVF to conceive, but because of issues that existed when we were both 25–not anything to do with my age. Pregnancy at 37 is as easy (easier because it’s only one this time) than it was at 32. Take it as it comes, have the next and the next as you are ready, and don’t put yourself on a clock that doesn’t exist.

      • IMMJ

        I second what Anon Mom says about having another baby whenever you’re ready, regardless of the timing at work. But I disagree with her about how you have time — you may or may not have time, which is exactly why you should go ahead and try to have another baby whenever you and your family are ready.

      • a passion for fashion

        this. i had two kids while i was an associate (2nd and 5th year) and my being “up” wasnt defered at all. and i made it. this is true for just about everyone else i know. big firms are much less likely to hold you back (though its not always a bad thing) b/c of maternity leave these days. plus, trying to plan around having kids is just to hard.

    • Anon in NYC

      I don’t have kids, but I agree with Anon Mom above. Have kids when you want to have kids. Making partner is never guaranteed, and a lot depends on your firm, your practice area, and the general market. I think if you’re producing stellar work in between kids 1 and 2, then your chances are as good as you can make them. I also think having discussions with partners, mentors, sponsors, etc. about your interest in making partner, and actively soliciting feedback from them about what you can be doing to accomplish that goal, is also a good thing to do. This way you’ll be in their minds when the partner selection process starts.

      Frankly, if your firm is going to pass you over for partnership because you’re on maternity leave, would you want to be a partner there?!

    • MaggieLizer

      I’ve definitely seen women get passed over for partner because they were PG or on mat leave or had just returned from mat leave or whatever when the partnership decision was made. But at those types of firms, the partners pretty much have it out for all women with young children (and men who actually like to spend time with their kids), so you’re kind of “marked” anyway. If that’s your firm, get out now. Take a hit to your seniority so you have time to develop relationships with partners at a new, more family friendly firm.

      If having children is something core to your life, then don’t give that up for a shot at partnership. How would you feel if you postponed having children, thus making it so you can’t have as many as you’d like, and then didn’t make partner? How would you feel if you postponed, and couldn’t have as many as you’d like, and did make partner? Would it be a hollow victory?

    • Need to Improve

      Are you me? I am in your boat. I had my first child at 33 as a 5th year and I am now 35 and a 7th year. I am going to wait until I get the “green light” before trying for number 2. They tell us a year out if we are likely to make it the following year, so my “year out” conversation will be this December. If they say all is looking good for the following year, then I plan to start trying in the new year with the hopes of being pregnant at the end of that year when the vote happens. Of course nothing is guaranteed–either with partnership or with pregnancy–but I don’t want to take another leave in that critical 8th year. I just don’t think year 8 is a good time to take maternity leave, when you should be billing high hours and working hard towards partnership.

  4. Anon

    I’ve been in a months’ long (since December) interviewing process for a job I really, really want. I’ve been told I’m one of the very top candidates. Three weeks ago, they asked for references for the first time. My references have told me they were contacted (and gave me glowing recommendations) that same day. Since then, nothing. I emailed my contact at the company last week with a polite request for an update and an offer to provide any additional information that might be needed. No response. This contact is relatively new at the employer (she came on board about a month ago). My previous contact was extremely communicative (whom the new contact replaced) and always reached out to me when there was new information about the process, and responded to my inquiries within a day or two. I know they need the sign-off of the head of the company before they can make me the offer, and I also know, based on several things in the news right now, that he is guaranteed to be a busy, busy man at the moment (and his staff as well).

    At what point, if ever, can I reach out again for an update?

    • Julep

      I would reach out a week after your last email, but not necesarily for an update. I would do it to reiterate my enthusiasm for the position and interest in working with the hiring manager.

      It is frustrating, but these things can move very slowly. Good luck!

  5. Gail the Goldfish

    I need a new grey suit and have decided J.Crew has about the only suitable options in my price range (why are jackets so long this season? and why is it so hard to find a plain grey suit?). Are their super 120s or the stretch wool suits better?

    • Anonymous

      I have stuff in the 120s and the stretch wool. The 120s is more comfortable, but the material is a bit thinner. The 120s skirts are lined, the pants are not. Given the relatively thin fabric, the pants are probably 3 season pants depending on where you live. They do have a nice drape, though. The stretch fabric does not have as nice a drape. Also, the stretch wool can get a bit itchy, and this is coming from someone who does not have sensitive skin whatsoever. I will say that on a recent site-wide promo I ordered a full 120s suit and was not satisfied with the quality of the blazer. There were threads coming out everywhere and it just looked a bit…sad.

  6. Ella

    I got a job! A public interest job! I am excited and wanted to give an update to my recent post asking for advice about whether I should apply to biglaw.

  7. Purchasing estate jewelry online?

    I’m in the market for a ring in the mid-four figure range. I’d prefer vintage. I’ve been cruising around online, and I’ve seen a number of fantastic pieces. Ordinarily, I would want to try on the ring, but many of my favorites are thousands of miles away from me. Do any of you have any experience buying jewelry online? Is this too risky? Do you have any recommendations for reputable dealers? All advice welcome!

    • TCFKAG

      What websites are you looking at? Certain websites (like Ebay for example) have some protections for purchases and others (like Etsy) at least have some kind of review process. I would not buy anything like this off somewhere like Craigslist or a more informal place. I would also use either an Amex or possibly PayPal to pay, something that has some sort of protection if you get defrauded.

      I would also suggest going to a local antique store or two and actually trying on some rings to get a feel of what you like in real life, before you shell out a bunch of money. Then you’re at least shopping with some info. :-)

      • Anonymous

        I find that Etsy has no protections what so ever- I got ripped off my a seller who just never shipped he item I paid for. I only had 45 days to dispute with paypal and I missed that deadline because the seller had long estimated ship dates. Etsy eventually shut down their shop but they just opened it up under a different name

    • MaggieLizer

      Are they strictly online sellers or do they also have a retail store? Personally I feel a little better about using a store with a physical retail location, but I’m probably just old fashioned. Are there any reviews online? I’ve also had great success at antique shows, if there are any coming up in your area. If you’re looking for something in particular, a lot of the sellers will keep an eye out for you.

    • Sydney Bristow

      Could you take a weekend trip to somewhere that has lots of brick and mortar locations, particularly a place where you’ve seen some of them online? For that amount of money I don’t think I could purchase a piece online.

    • rosie

      Brilliant Earth has some lovely (in my opinion) vintage rings. I have a diamond necklace from there and had no issues (it was a gift, but the purchaser did not tell me about any issues either). You might want to check out their site.

    • oil in houston

      hi, I have tried verious options, and find that it can be disappointing buying online, if only because in jewellery very small differences in measurements can have big impacts.
      I have tried Blue nile on many occasions and like them for the following reasons: they have reviews from customers on most pieces, shipping is fast, returns are convenient and guaranteed.
      I know it’s not vintage, but they have vintage-looking pieces.
      Otherwise, going to an antique shop is your best bet, and I wouldn’t do that online, it’s too easy to hide flaws in a picture….
      good luck

    • petitesq

      My engagement ring is an antique, purchased via etsy from a jeweler with a real brick-and-mortar store. I am thrilled with my ring, but I will say you are assuming risk purchasing sight unseen. Some tips in addition to the ones above (and probably some repeats):

      (1) know what looks good on your fingers – while the actual size will still be a little bit of a question mark, knowing the general shape of what looks good will help immensely

      (2) see if you can get any kind of guaranty, return policy, or appraisal. example: my ring came with an appraisal, but upon arrival I took it to a local, trusted jeweler, and some of the prongs were loose. Thankfully, easily fixed, and I certainly don’t blame the original jeweler (antique rings get brittle and need tuneups; it happens and is to be expected with antique jewelry). even just a 14 day return policy is a huge help – and get ye to a local jeweler you trust in the interim

      (3) look for postings with lots of detail – the more finite the measurements, etc, the more you know what you’re getting

      (4) don’t trust carat weights 100% – again, nothing against jewelers at all, but the carat weight is generally an estimate. Many jewelers are hesitant to take stones out of antique settings (for fear they are unable to without damage), so generally carat weight will be an educated guess.

      (5) buy from someplace that is well reviewed, and if it has an actual storefront, make sure that’s well reviewed, too. See if you can call the store and get more detail too.

      (6) understand that diamonds will have different shapes, and often cuts, than they do now – trends, technology, expectations all change :)

      Happy happy shopping to you. As far as specific stores, I love erstwhile (on Etsy), but have not purchased from there. There is one shop that is always recommended by someone… mamabear? tcfkag? I can’t remember it, but if anyone remembers, respond here so I can find it again too!

    • Anonymous

      If you want vintage, check out beladora.com

      If not, check out engagement rings direct and speak with Mark.

  8. ANP

    Medical TJ: anyone out there have diastais recti? I had my second baby earlier this year and am 99% sure my abdominal muscles have separated. I’m only 8 pounds away from my prepregnancy weight and still look pregnant, moreso when I eat. I also did the “test” (where you look for a hole in your abs while lying down) and there is, in fact, a space there. I had my gallbladder out and an abdominal hernia repaired after Baby #1, so I’m pretty Over It when it comes to my stomach being out of wack.

    I have a physical next Thursday and am going to ask my doc about this, but in the meantime I’m freaking out. From what Dr. G00gle is telling me, the only for-sure way to fix this appears to be what is essentially a repair and a tummy tuck (!!!) — but would insurance cover that? Because I can’t see us affording something a tummy tuck on our own. Is that an insane, major surgery? Would I need to wait until I was done having kids to have it done? So many questions — and therefore many reasons I probably shouldn’t have consulted Dr. G00gle.

    • Anonymous

      Please calm down! The best info you can get will come from your doctor, who you are seeing next week. Your stomach isn’t going to fall out in the meantime.

      • kim

        Seconded – you said you had a baby earlier this year – it’s only May! Your body hasn’t healed yet! Your pooch will hang around a little longer, diasis recti or not. You did take 9 months to get that way. Second, put down the google! Is this your first child? You’ll (mostly) get your shape back eventually.

    • Diana Barry

      I would wait until you see your dr. If it is a minor separation, it should heal in time and with exercise (don’t do any situps etc., do only navel-to-the-spine type exercises for now). If it is a major separation, a tummy tuck may be required. I had a friend who had twins and developed a big diastasis. Her doctor was able to code it so it was “medically necessary” and somewhat covered. I think yes, you do have to wait until you’re done having kids, and yes, it is a major surgery. But don’t take my word for it, talk to your dr. :)

    • EC MD

      Diastasis recti is common after pregnancy, and can take months to improve. It will slowly improve but by 69 months after your baby you’ll probably be pretty close to a new baseline.

      You say that it looks bad — but does it cause you problems? What you are complaining about in your post is essentially a cosmetic issue, so I’m unsure why you think it would be covered by insurance? The procedure essentially pulls the muscles back together, so yes it is a tummy tuck. I would definitely wait until I was done having children. It is a major operation, with a recovery, etc. I would talk to your Dr about it but wouldn’t get a referral to talk to a plastic surgeon about it until you are a year post partum. If you google post-partum rectus diastasis there are exercises you can do. I’m not sure if they work, but they might help.

    • Lilypad

      I have / had this. It’s NBD. Ask your doctor for some exercises; if you want to really do it up right, ask for a referral to physical therapist who can teach you the proper exercises to repair it. In the mean time, don’t do sit ups or crunches, and try to avoid going form a laying position to a sitting position by just sitting up – roll on to your side and push yourself up with your arms. Google has lots of info on how to work your transverse abdominal muscles to pull the rectus muscles back to the center.

    • 'non for this

      I had this after my twins, who were born 18 months after their brother. Had the surgery two years later on doctor’s advice due to my particular situation; insurance covered it. It’s major surgery and I tried to avoid it through exercise and whatnot from about 12 months post partum, but couldn’t get enough of a correction. If it’s just cosmetic, I’d advise working through all the other ways to get your body back in shape before seriously considering it. Check back with your doc in a year.

  9. S/O

    Are top 10 law schools worth it? Would a school like Michigan or Northwestern be worth it with a scholarship? Are any law schools worth it if you are paying full fare?

    • Anonymous

      Depends what you mean by worth it. Michigan is a top 10 school, I paid nearly full freight and definitely thought it was worth it. I got a great education and found, with more difficulty than I’d like, a great job. I pay 1500 a month in student loans at 7.2% on average, which hurts, but I can afford it. I don’t think any law school is worth it if all you’re looking for is an easy pay check at the end of it, but if you really want to be a lawyer there aren’t a ton of options.

      • Anonymous

        When did you graduate, Anonymous at 11:09 am?

        Also, copying my response from the earlier thread:

        Not unless you have a substantial scholarship. I can’t imagine going to any law school for full price nowadays, perhaps even including Yale. Even if you get a biglaw job, which is far from certain, you’ll just be miserable for years doing that work to pay off your debt.

        Do yourself a huge favor and do not go to law school unless you can avoid having more than $50,000 or $75,000 in debt after you graduate and you’re going to a top school. If you’re interested in practicing only in a particular region, a state school with some debt (less than $30,000 over three years) might be ok, but don’t expect a biglaw job from that. You simply won’t get it. Besides, even if you do get it, you’ll be miserable.

        –2010 graduate of top 6 law school who paid sticker

        • Anonymous

          I graduated in 2010. I work in biglaw, I’m not miserable, and in addition to paying off my debt, I rent a pretty sweet apartment, save for retirement, don’t worry much about my spending, and travel a couple weekends a month. I know it doesn’t work out well for everyone, but it has been worth it to me. My grandfather laid bricks, my mother grew up with an outhouse, and I have letters after my name and a secretary. That means something to me.

          • Anonymous

            You’re welcome. I’m sure you intended that to be snarky, but when someone asks if law school is worth it, I think it’s fair to share a happy perspective on it.

          • Bewitched

            Plus, it’s not a lottery. I’m sure she worked d*mn hard to get through Michigan and to get a job in BigLaw.

          • Anonymous at 11:20

            I should clarify instead of just being bitter. It’s great that this turned out well for you. Undoubtedly your extra effort to find a good job helped make a difference. To get a job that isn’t misery in biglaw is truly an accomplishment and I’m glad that it’s worked out for you. I wish that more attorneys could have that, including myself.

            But the decision facing a would-be law student needs to be based upon likely payoffs from going to law school rather than best case scenarios, which is what law schools sell to applicants The numbers are not favorable. The odds of getting a job that pays well and that isn’t misery are very low. Instead, you’re likely to stumble in that you don’t get a job, you get a job but it doesn’t pay well, or you get a job that pays well but is horrible. The risk is too great, and as someone pointed out earlier, no amount of “risk tolerance” will pay off your loans.

            Whoever wins the next Powerball drawing will be rich. Does that mean it was a good decision to for that person to play the Powerball? Of course not, the Powerball is a waste of money; it just means that person was lucky. A good outcome does not necessarily imply that a good decision was made. Certainly talent and hard work can potentially impact the outcome, but a lot of this is outside your own control or is simply unknowable in the law realm. It’s hard to judge where you’ll end up within your law class or in your career before you actually play it out. My message to the would-be law student is that this is simply a lottery ticket you don’t want to buy. The risk is not worth it. Don’t mortgage your future on this.

          • Cornellian

            I agree, but it’s worth noting how much of a lottery it is. I disagree strongly with bewitched. Yeah, I worked hard to go to a top school and stay in the top of the class, but so did some of my friends, who are unemployed two years after we graduated. That, to me, is scarier than any other aspect of choosing to go to law school. Things are NOT in your control, like they may have been until this point in your life.

          • Blair Waldorf

            Agree with Cornellian.

            I am very lucky to be in the position I am now (2012 law school grad from a top 10 school, big law, really like my job). I have plenty of classmates who are qualified but really struggled to find jobs – and not just jobs in big law Any jobs. Most have found jobs by now, but it was not an easy process. Some are still looking.

            There is certainly an element of chance involved in “winning the law school game,” but hard work and smarts will increase your odds substantially, but it is never a sure thing.

            The real question should be whether you want to be a lawyer, and whether your desire to be a lawyer outweighs the very real risks of not finding a job (at least for awhile) and dealing with the debt that goes along with law school.

            If the answer is yes, then I still think that going to a top law school is a good investment as a general rule. These are personal decisions, and you will have to look at your options and decide whether full fare is worth it based on those options and your intended career path.

          • Anonymous

            NYC. And I worked a terrible doc review job for a year before finding this good one. It’s a hard road, and it took 2 years for all of my law school Friend’s to find jobs, but I’m glad I did it. My mantra was : I didn’t go to law school for a great 5 years, I went for a 30+ year career, which I think will be worth it in the end.

          • a passion for fashion

            seriously, you are pretty bitter. The realy answer is that if you want to go to law school becuase you want to practice law, then yes, tis worth it, as you cannot practice without going to law school. but going where you pay the least and get a good education is still a good idea.

            Just becasue you are smart and get into a good school and do will does not a good lawyer make. nor does it make you want to be a lawyer.

            Sure, there is some luck/lottery aspect to that, but there always has been. Its more pronounced now. these are things about which you should be aware. i suspect that you are.

          • 2013

            I graduated in 2012 (from T14) and still can’t find a job. Am I bitter? Maybe. Does that mean my advice for future law graduates is less valid from those who lucked out? No.

          • Alanna of Trebond

            I am with Blair Waldorf–I graduated in 2012 near the top of my class, love my biglaw job in NYC and will be clerking next year. I also paid sticker and turned down a full scholarship at a top 14 school to attend my law school.

          • Alanna of Trebond

            And what I meant to add before I accidentally posted–and there are plenty of people from my law school who have done everything “right” and are not in the same position. On the flip side, there are people who are really inept but personable who have high-paying jobs.

      • kim

        I think worth depends on what you want to do with your degree. If you want to help the poor, no (assuming you’d have student loans, otherwise go for it!). If you want to work in Biglaw, possibly. If you work in Biglaw yet have many people to support on top of student loans, maybe not. If you just want an advanced degree but not necessarily practice law, say you want to influence policy, maybe a different degree could get you there. It really revolves around money and what you’d like to achieve with the degree.

        • LilyB

          actually, if you want to help the poor, you will be eligible for IBR and, in 10 years, full loan forgiveness. so it’s actually a better bet to go to law school to “help the poor” than to, say, work at a mid-size law firm or hang out a shingle.

          • AnonyRegular

            I can agree with this. I have $150K in loans that are set to be forgiven in 6 more years. This is the job I always wanted. I don’t own a home and my car is a little older than I would like, but for job satisfaction, it is so worth it~!

          • Cornellian

            But IBR is not guaranteed. It’s a legislative program that could end or become less generous at any time, which is worth considering.

          • Anon

            I’m in this program and the payments are still onerous on a government salary. If I had a nonprofit salary I’m not sure I’d be solvent. And whenever I’ve gotten a raise my payments go up and basically eat the raise. Plus I have private loans that I needed to make it through law school that will not be forgiven.

          • Anonymous

            IBR is a federal program- it is not through law school. Some schools have additional benefits. For instance mine pays what I owe for IBR. If you had a non profit salary, you would be paying an amount that is relevant to that level. And the IBR program is not going away, it would cost the government way more to get rid of it then to keep it. I wish people would stop saying that it could go away. Yeah and the united states government could go away too but its not going to happen.

        • op

          This is a good point Kim. I do want to practice but I would also like to influence policy which is why I feel like I need the qualification of a prestigious law school.

          • Anon in NYC

            Just my opinion, but if you’re trying to get into policy work, then you need a more prestigious law school. If you have to borrow the total cost of attendance (so perhaps 65k per year for tuition, room & board) and not a penny more, you’ll graduate with 195k in debt, plus interest (it will be over 200k by the time you graduate). Figure out if you’re willing to carry that for the next 20-30 years.

          • Gail the Goldfish

            If you’re trying to get into policy work, don’t go to law school. Move to DC, get a job on the Hill (you will start as an intern and you will have to work your way up, and yea, it sucks, but do it), stay a while, make it to a legislative assistant job, stay a couple of years, and then leave and do policy work. I briefly worked on the Hill after law school, took a look at the people the same age as me, and I realized I would have been in a much better position if I’d skipped law school and been working for the 3 years in DC instead, and with far less debt.

          • Policy Maker

            What type of “policy” work do you want to do? While a law degree may be useful for some “policy” areas, I would say it is in no way a requirement and may not even be the most useful way to pursue your chosen field.

            Also, it really matters where you are geographically. If you want to do mineral rights policy in Helena, MT going to a T14 law school is not the answer.

    • Anon in NYC

      Agree with the Anon above about defining “worth it” in the context of your career goals. I went to a T14 (private) school, so in the rough bracket. I would have gone to a T10 if I had gotten in, because I think there is a tad more prestige associated with those schools. I did not have any scholarships, so my student loans are over 200k. I’m in NYC biglaw, and some of my coworkers went to state schools (not in the T10) and only have about 50k in debt. The debt makes a big difference, especially if you’re going to wind up in the same place. But, winding up in the same place is never guaranteed. The fact remains that there is still a fair bit of snobbery about law school rankings.

      I want to eventually go into government, but I feel like my student loans are holding me back. I’ve been paying down my student loans pretty aggressively, so I pay about 3500/mo to my loans and I feel like I haven’t made a dent in them yet. I’m still waiting for that tipping point.

    • TBK

      The law review editor of any T14 law school will always be able to find a (very good) job. Obviously there are only 14 people each year with that qualification. I’d venture to say that the top 10% of the T14 schools will always be able to find a (pretty good) job. The top 25% of HYSCC will likely be fine. Probably even the top 33% of those schools. Top 25% of the other T14 — these days, probably will find a paying job as a lawyer. But the lower you creep both in class rank and in law school ranking, the harder it will be. Top 50% at T14 used to mean you were fine, and even lower 50% weren’t going to starve. But I don’t think those numbers hold anymore. How much do you want to be a lawyer? What’s your risk tolerance? Are you really, truly phenomenal? (Some people are.) Not just did you graduate from college summa cum laude, but are you really outstanding such that you might be in the top 10% of a class full of summa cum laudes/phi beta kappas? Then it might be worth it (but if you’re that stellar, you probably won’t have to pay full freight, even at a top school).

      • Anon

        I’m one of those T10 school grads that was not even in the top half of my class. Even if you are “risk tolerant” you may still find yourself without a long-term job and without prospects of getting one easily. Tolerance to risk isn’t a magical personal trait that will prevent you from remaining in debt for approximately forever. (I know IBR exists, but still, the debt can be crushing) Even if you truly want to be a lawyer, it might be very difficult to actually do that, and even with a partial scholarship a school like Michigan or Northwestern can still cost a lot.

    • Diana Barry

      I wouldn’t have gone to law school if I had had to incur a lot of loans (like more than 40 or 50K). I started at zero, which is much better than starting at -150K!

      • ABC

        I am agreeing with Diana Barry left and right today… But I am again in the same boat.

        I was very fortunate to attend a T20 law school on a full scholarship, which resulted in no loans. If I had to pay full tuition at any school regardless of ranking (without the help of a scholarship or parents or whatever), I would not have gone to law school. Or any grad school for that matter.

        That being said, I have plenty of friends who graduated with $150K+ in loans and who have turned out just fine. Granted, I am 5+ years out of school now and graduated when the legal economy was different, but everyone I know ended up finding a job.

    • 2011 Grad

      I would say that nothing outside of the T14 is worth it unless you have a full ride guaranteed.

      You could also transfer from the full ride school to a T5 if you do well, and that’ll really help you land that job that you want.

      I paid full price for T10 and while I have a mix of loans at various rates and am employed in a practice area that I enjoy and am making good money…

      … I still worry about the legal market, I still feel like one of the people in the “young people are delaying marriage, big purchases, starting a family, etc” statistic they are writing about lately.

      Specifically, if you are looking at Mich/Northwestern, and you’re looking at law schools because you want to be a lawyer, I would say it’s worth it. If you got a full ride at something T15-25, perhaps you should consider that too. I really wish I had given the full ride to one southern school more consideration because then I wouldn’t have the $150,000 golden handcuffs.

    • Olivia Pope

      I would say that no law school is worth sticker. If you go into a lot of debt, your future is very limited. You must deal with the debt. That could mean being stuck in biglaw whether you like it or not, or being stuck in jobs that qualify for loan forgiveness whether you like it or not. I wouldn’t want those options.

      I went to law school with a large scholarship. Not a T14, but by far the highest ranking school in the state that I live in. I am graduating now and it gives me incredible peace to know that I can pay my loans down in 3 years or so. That means if it turns out that if I hate the law and want to change careers, or feel compelled to do public interest, or want to go solo, I can do so debt free in a few years. That means a lot to me. I feel like my law degree is actually creating possibilities. If I had a ton of debt, I would see a narrow path stretching before me.

    • cbackson

      This seems like a bit of an odd question to me – the better one is whether lower-tier law schools are worth it. If you go to a top-10 school, your financial risk is actually lower, because despite your loans, you’re more likely to be employed. I went to a top-5 school; we were 100% employed at graduation (I’m an ’08 grad). I was ranked no higher than the top third of the class and although I was EIC of a journal, it wasn’t law review. But I’ve been able to make multiple moves to great firm jobs in different legal markets, and I know that’s in large part because of the name recognition associated with my degree. I have big loans (which aren’t an issue for me given my employment situation) but my school also offered a loan repayment program for those working in public interest.

      The value proposition gets much dicier when you’re looking at the lower tiers: the degree is less portable from market to market, the alumni network is less well-connected, and the debt burden can still be crushing. If you’re looking at a lower-tier school, thinking about the cost and availability of scholarships, and your long-term plans with regard to location and type of job are very important.

        • rankings nerd

          If she was T5 in 2008, she went to CLS or NYU. (If she went to Yale, Stanford or Harvard, she would have said T3 (unless she was being coy).) Until the past year or two, Chicago was only #6.

      • cracked

        08 is before everything went back. chicago reports 90% now, and assume at least 10% of that is inflated.

      • MK

        Same here. I went to a T6 law school, ’08 grad, and everyone I knew had jobs at graduation. I know it’s different now, but not that much.

        My choices were: T6, full loans. T14, $10k/year grant. T25, $25k/year grant. The thing is, even with that $25k/year grant, I would have ended up with over $100k of loans at the T25 school, and my chances of getting a job would not have been great it I hadn’t been in the top of the class, versus virtually guaranteed at the T6 law school that I did go to.

        I started out really actively disliking biglaw, but after a few years moved to a boutique practice where I have more and more days when I truly love what I do and bill about 2000 hours/year. I’m not paid top of the market, but close to it. I can afford everything I want, am saving, and will finish paying of my $200k in loans in 2015 (7 years of repayment). I think the more senior you get, the better this career gets, and you will have so many opportunities ahead of you if you get the right start out of the gate.

        Conversely, I have friends who graduated from lower-ranked schools at the same time I did who have never been able to find a legal job. They are saddled with debt (because of course, their schools only guaranteed scholarships if they maintained a nearly impossible GPA), have very low earning potential for the foreseeable future, and are truly struggling.

        I think the bigger question is if you want to go to law school at all. If so, then yes, paying more to go to a T6 school is definitely worth it, from my perspective.

      • Meg Murry

        I’m not a lawyer so take this with several grains of salt. I went to a top school for undergrad (Top 10 school overall, always in the Top 3 for my major for the last 10+ years). I was a rockstar before I went to school, but I was in the bottom 50% for my major, possibly even bottom 25%, and it was a terrible year for hiring, so I didn’t get a job. I tried to find a position near where I grew up in a medium Midwestern city, and I couldn’t even get interviews – I later found out that most of the companies headquartered in this area do their recruiting from well regarded state and private schools in the area, and assume that anyone that went to the East/West coast for college isn’t going to stay in the Midwest. And I’m finding that most of my coworkers who went to the regional schools are about equal to my level, and possibly have a little more “grit” to them because they worked their way through undergrad or scrounged up a ton of scholarships to put themselves through school, something I was lucky enough not to have to do.

        So I guess what I’m saying is – if you are looking to stay in the region the law school is in, you might be BETTER off going to a well regarded regional school, rather than a top-ranked national school, as regional companies often recruit at regional schools.

        Last, have you worked for a few years or is this coming straight from undergrad? If straight from undergrad, you may want to consider seeing if you can get an entry level job that’s relevant to the field you’re thinking of entering to make sure that’s what you want to do, especially if you are debating putting yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I know when I first graduated from undergrad I had no concept of money, and it took me a few years to put salary and loan amounts into context in my world – I had never done any budgeting exercises to understand how much I would have to pay each month for my student loans, or rent, or even how my take home pay was going to compare to my salary before taxes, health insurance etc.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      For me (2010 grad from T10), it wasn’t. For people who graduated pre-2008, it probably was. Now? I don’t know. Depends on a lot of things. Where do you want to practice, how much is the scholarship, what are your other school options. I went to a T10 school for full price and graduated in 2010 (so I made the decision to go before the economic meltdown). I strongly regret not going to a lower-ranked school that was offering a half scholarship. Had the economy not collapsed, I probably would have been fine, but as it was, not so much. I’m employed. It’s not BigLaw, but it pays the bills and I get really good experience with actual litigation instead of just doing doc review for 2 years. But thanks to my ridiculously high loans (which are fixed at 6.8 and 8.something percent) and high cost of living city, paying the loans is about all it does. I don’t save much and have definitely felt like it’s sort of delayed my life a bit (Hey Congress, if you wonder why my generation doesn’t buy property to help the economic recovery, it’s because our student loan payments are more than a mortgage). A lot of my friends my year had trouble finding legal jobs. Some have just now found permanent ones after doing various short-term jobs for a couple of years. My school’s employment statistics are a blatant lie. Several of my friends were supposed to work for Dewey, which would have been one of those well-paying BigLaw jobs… except the firm went bankrupt after stringing them along on deferrals for a year. The ones that went to BigLaw almost universally hate it, but exit options have become much more limited thanks to the economy. I suppose my point is this: the world can change a lot in the 3 years between entering and leaving law school. It might get better, it might get worse. Whether you think it’s worth it basically depends on your risk tolerance (or your ability to judge the financial markets, but if you’re good at that, you should be in finance, not law).

      Also, if you know where you want to practice, you might be better off going to a strong regional school. I didn’t know, so I went to a well-regarded national school. Except now (due in part to the high cost of living here) I’ve decided I want to move to the state I went to undergrad in, which is much cheaper. I kind of think I would have been better off had I went to my undergrad school for law school. And with IBR–it’s an option if your school offers it, but remember it’s a legislative program subject to the whims of Congress.

      • Gail the Goldfish

        hm, that turned into a novel. TL;DR version: Probably not worth it to pay full price at any law school.

      • op

        I would like to practice in biglaw but I am concerned that even if I do get the opportunity – how long do most people stay before they leave (voluntarily or not)? My impression was that even if you are good you may not make the cut after 3 or 4 years and you’ll be looking for another job.

        • Anonymous at 11:20

          This perception is roughly correct. Most people who get in last for at least a year or two or three. After that, people start to leave, either of their own volition or because they are asked to leave. Note that people are asked to leave both for performance reasons and because of a downturn in work at the firm. It’s not always up to you and your capabilities. But if you’re one of the best and highest billing associates, chances are you can find at least one partner to stick up for you and keep you off the chopping block when heads start rolling.

          A small group toughs it out and makes it beyond two or three years. No more than perhaps three, if any, from a summer associate class will ultimately make partner after around 7 years of practice. Actually making partner is a pipe dream and is far more dependent upon firm politics and your ability to carry a “book of business” than simply being a good or outstanding lawyer.

  10. BluePrint Cleanse?

    Has anyone here done the Blueprint cleanse? Gilt is running a sale and I’m not sure if it is insane or worthwhile. Would love any feedback from the hive.

    • Kanye East

      Honestly? Unless you’re doing a medically supervised elimination diet for digestive problems or food allergies, cleanses are about as beneficial as snake oil.

      • Ru

        Let me add my absolutely disgust for Dr. Oz advertising a different “detox” or “cleanse” plan in EVERY SINGLE SHOW. I hear about Dr. Oz about as much as I hear about getting married. Mothertrucker.

    • me

      I’ve done blueprint…lost about 4 pounds of water weight, then gained it right back. I’d say it’s worth it if you’re trying to jumpstart a healthy lifestyle or you have a dress you need to fit into for an important event. But don’t count on it for permanent weight loss!

    • Anonymous

      I tried Blueprint and gave up after a day because of stabbing headaches. Some people I know have done it and swear by it, especially if they have digestive issues. Me, not so much. I would say don’t waste your money.

    • 2013

      You can buy the juice at Whole Foods and it’s cheaper than the gilt sale because you don’t pay for shipping. (At least that’s how the money works in DC). I did it for one day and liked it (I lost some weight at least temporarily when I was on a weight loss plateau so I got motivated again) but I wouldn’t do it for 3.

  11. Moonstone

    I know we have a lot of UK ‘rettes. Anyone want to weigh in on Hotter shoes? I saw some cute ones — well, you know, cute-in-a-frumpy way — online but I don’t know anything about the brand. I am trying to cut down on buying clothes and accessories made in countries like China and Bangladesh, so I am interested in these if they are really made in the UK.

  12. Manhattan/Brooklyn hotel recs?

    Hey guys–looking for a cute, possibly funky, not-exorbitant place to stay in Manhattan or Brooklyn next weekend. Proximity to public transit a plus. Go!

    • TCFKAG

      A few weeks ago I stayed at the Room Mate Grace hotel in Manhattan (its just a block or two from Times Square and has a real European vibe.) I got a pretty good deal because it was mid-week and on sale, but if the price isn’t too bad, the location is amazing and the hotel itself was quite nice and the staff was helpful.

    • Moonstone

      I’ve stayed at the Chelsea Pines Inn a bunch of times. Great area, very convenient, cute rooms with movie star themes.

  13. Liz in the City

    So last night, I got into a fender bender — totally my fault. The traffic was stop and go and I thought it was more go than stop when the woman in front of me came to a complete halt very quickly. If I had had 5 feet (or less), I would not have hit her. We pulled over to the shoulder and assessed the damage. This is my first (ever) accident in 15 years of driving. She got all my info, and in my shaken-up-ness, I only got her name and phone number. The damage was minimal–one of my headlights is pushed in (but not broken) and there was paint transfer on her car and a tiny dent on her bumper. She said she’d rather not involve insurance and would get back to me with a quote from a garage.

    When I told my parents (who owned the car), they absolutely flipped out that we didn’t call the police or get an official report. I can file a “civilian” report after the fact, but my state only requires it if it’s more than $1,000 worth of damage to any one vehicle (which it doesn’t seem likely). They made me feel worse about the whole thing than the actual incident!

    I guess I’m just looking for someone to tell me that I didn’t completely screw up. I know (now) that I should have gotten more info from the other driver initially and perhaps we should have called the cops. But at the time, I was shaken up and uneasy at the side of a major highway. I plan on calling the other driver tonight to confirm her name and what her timeline is for getting an estimate.

    • kim

      I do not understand why she wouldn’t want to involve insurance – it would be your insurance that is notified, not hers. Maybe she isn’t licensed? Or am I totally mistaken on that front?

      • Liz in the City

        See “didn’t get her full info” above. (I know I’m a complete dummy for that.) I never saw/asked for her license. I know from anecdotal evidence that sometimes insurance rates go up for both parties whenever there’s an accident. I don’t know why she suggested it.

        • ANON NY

          Can’t your insurance rates go up though just by nature of being in an accident, even if it isn’t your fault? If she has had a few claims already, I can see why she might want to not want more.

      • Bonnie

        I’ve been in an accident where I asked not to involve insurance. In my case, I rear ended somebody and the damage was so minimal that I preferred to pay out of pocket than involve the insurance company and raise my rates. As far as the police go, in most cities, the dispatcher will ask if anyone was injured and if there were no injuries, the police will decline to come to the scene. If you rear-end someone, the accident will always be considered your fault.

    • Double Hoo

      If you rear-ended her, then insurance will find you to be at fault, and your rates may increase — so as long as your repairs are within your budget, it may be better for you to take care of it without involving insurance. It’s a little weird to me that this lady wouldn’t want it documented if she was not at fault, but maybe she has her reasons. (I was in her position a few years ago — rear-ended by a normal sort of guy at a light, no major damage, but his insurance paid for what little there was. I filed a police report a few days after the accident.)

      Also, even if it is your fault (and rear-ending is about the most clear-cut example — the car behind is always at fault), never admit it verbally to the other driver. Let the insurance companies figure it out.

      For this specific case (you at fault, minimal damage, a relatively normal other person who you can deal with directly), it probably isn’t the end of the world not to involve the police or insurance. But in general, it’s much safer to have a neutral third party involved, especially if the other person is a wacko. You risk the situation devolving into a “he said/she said” argument, and insurance will probably weasel out of paying anything if you don’t have every single piece of documentation. Your parents are right, and if it’s their car you should be respectful of that, but I think they are being a little overcautious in this specific situation.

      In future, it might be good to make an accident checklist to keep in your glovebox — a list of what info you need to get from the other driver, a reminder to take some photos, perhaps some emergency contact info for you, just in case. It’s hard to remember all the details in the heat of the moment, but you do need them if the accident is more serious.

      • Liz in the City

        This checklist is a wonderful idea and one I plan on doing. Thanks!

        And I am conscious that this is their car. My dad just kept insisting, “I really wish you had done XYZ at the time” over and over again — like I had a time machine to be able to make it happen for him.

        • Double Hoo

          Well, if they never made those expectations clear to you beforehand, there’s not a lot they can do. You’re handling it fine, and you’ll know for next time. As long as you and the car are fine, I don’t think they have a reason to be upset. Things happen.

    • eek

      I’ve been rear ended before at very low speeds and the cops really don’t care. They didn’t issue a ticket to the other person and in my experience it’s a pretty clear case with the insurance companies, I think they will generally find you at fault. So while you didn’t do everything “by the book”, I don’t think it really would’ve made a difference.

      • This.

        If you were in a major city when the accident took place, its likely that the cops would have declined to come out even if you had called. Now, they only really respond to accidents if they are major and blocking traffic.

        I wouldn’t sweat this at all. I would just chalk it up to “that’s life.” Next time get more info from the woman, but don’t worry about it this time.

    • a.

      I think you’re fine. I’ve had two fender bender-ish situations (one a lot like yours, one where I dinged a parked car in a tiny lot) and no one called the police either time. Both times we also settled everything without involving anyone’s insurance. Hooray for not increasing premiums!

    • Eleanor

      You did not scr*w up; it sounds like you handled it really well. I assume the woman didn’t want to involve insurance because she was being kind to you. If you and she had called the police and filed a report, I believe your insurance company would have found out automatically, and your insurance rates would go up because you hit her. By not calling the police or your insurance company, she is letting you pay for the damage without taking a hit on your insurance rate the next time you renew your car insurance. This means she has to trust you somewhat, because without a police report indicating the accident was your fault, you could just turn around now and refuse to pay for her damage (which would be heinous).

      Why would it matter that you get more info from the woman than her name and phone number? She presumable wants you to pay for the car damage, and will be very sure to get plenty of information from you so she can collect later, but why do you care whether you can contact her? You don’t need anything from her.

      The only possible downside I can see for you here is if she comes back with a really high estimate for repair costs. Insurance companies usually require two estimates, or require you to go to a particular mechanic so they can control costs. If her quoted cost seems outrageous to you maybe you could suggest the name of a mechanic you believe will be cheaper, but really it sounds like she’s being very nice, you are being very nice, and the whole situation is much better than if you had called the police. I don’t think there’s any need for you to worry or feel bad at all.

    • rosie

      I don’t understand why she wouldn’t want to involve insurance either. I know that when I applied for insurance, I had to report all accidents (even if 0% my fault), so maybe she’s worried about her company having it on record for some reason.

      Anyways, I think it might be a good idea to write down everything you remember about what happened and sign and date your statement ASAP. That way, you will have something a little more official than your recollection later on, if there are any issues. Did you take photos of the damage?

    • notowhat

      Take a deep breath. I caused a similar fender-bender about a year ago. We also didn’t involve the insurance companies and I ended up writing a check for ~$250 to repair the guy’s bumper. I believe that carfax gets its data from insurance claims so putting in any accident claim can reduce the trade-in value of the car.

      • Liz in the City

        Thanks, everyone. It’s good to hear that I’m not going to burn at the stake for this (at little harsh on myself? Yeah, I know.)

        I totally plan on paying for the damages, and if they seem high, I might suggest another place. On the other hand, I may never hear from this woman again.

        I’ll definitely create a checklist right next to the registration that has things like “get name, number, license plate” and “take pictures with your phone” so when my brain decides to go into panic mode, I can still function.

        • eek

          Also, when it comes time to trade-in, (I know it’s your parents’), most places (incl CarMax) don’t care as long as the damage is less than $500.

        • Silvercurls

          Some auto insurance companies have a preprinted “keep this in your glove compartment in case you’re in an accident” card. If your parents have one (in another car?) you could photocopy it or ask the insurance company to send you another one.

          Maybe your parents are stressing about what you could have done better as a way of offloading their anxiety at the thought of your being in an auto accident? (I know it was low-speed, but we parents have an unfortunate tendency to flip out for what seems like no good reason.) The good news is that this experience involved _only_ money, property, and aggravation! It could have been so, so, much more awful…and that is probably why your parents are acting kind of weird right now. Be grateful that 1) they care enough to get crazy and 2) that (hopefully) they have refrained from sobbing “my baby could have been killed!” in front of you. If I did that in front of my son he’d probably roll his eyes clear out of his head. ;-)

          • Anonymous

            The concept of a “pre-printed card” is also in auto insurance companies’ apps – they guide you through what information to collect. I know USAA and Geico have this. I rely on it for my scattered brain.

    • Anonymous

      FYI-Check your state’s laws about reporting accidents. In Maine, all accidents have to be reported; there is no damage threshold. You can be ticketed for failing to report.

  14. fun dessert question

    We’re planning a large party centered around a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern menu (lamb, mezze, homemade pita, etc.). To accommodate our many GF friends, dessert will include a rice pudding bar with a variety of toppings. I’m already thinking honey, chopped pistachios, and probably orange zest–what else would you want as an option?

  15. Embarrassed Anon

    I went bare legged for the first time this season today and looking down at my legs under the harsh office lights and the bright light of the morning sun, I have come to the unwelcome conclusion that my legs look gross. Pasty, with red dots and splotches, a bit of KP, which is blessedly only on the upper portion still hidden by my pencil skirt, and all too dimply to boot. Needless to say I do not feel good about this realization and all my thoughts of summer longing are now replaced by a panicked longing for the security of my matte black tights. Obviously, the best solution is hitting the gym and buffing myself biweekly with expensive scrubs and ointments. But that hasn’t happened yet so I reckon it will not anytime too soon. Other ideas for quicker fixes and product recommendations? Is this something that might be helped with gradual self tanner? Loofa? Dry brushing? Help me ladies, I am spiraling into despair!!!

    • darjeeling

      No need to spiral into despair; it’s unlikely anyone else has or would notice anything!

    • Anonymous

      This is why I am team hose! (unless it’s super hot, and then I try light, airy but longer skirts).

    • Anne Shirley

      My legs are pale, with a faint bluish cast, a generous layer of sometimes dimply pudge, and sport their fair share of scars. I share the same freak out every spring, and then remember that I hate the smell of self tanner, think the color looks odd, and remind myself there’s nothing unprofessional about not having supermodel legs (since I’m a lawyer) and when I’m out on the town, no one will be staring at my legs because of my happy smile and ridiculous sun hat. It usually works.

      • Sydney Bristow

        My legs are similar. Very large (once muscular), pale, scarred, KP etc and I do my best just to accept it. I did order Glytone yesterday though to try and deal with my KP because it seems to be getting worse on my legs and has always been bad on my arms. Other than that, I try not to worry about it.

    • Small Town Atty

      I’ve had good experience with Jergen’s firming gradual tanning lotion (I forget what it’s called but you know what I mean). I’ve heard that they reformulated it so it doesn’t stink anymore (yay!) but can’t speak to whether that changes anything else about it.

      • Humdilly

        PSA about the jergens sunless tanner. It still stinks, just not as much. But if you’re one of the people (like me) who smells extra bad with sunless tanner it will still smell. The foam version is a light enough smell that I can wear it to work, but the lotion I only do at night before bed.

        Any tips about the little red dots at every pore would be appreciated!

        • AIMS

          My dermatologist said the only solution for that is lasering the hair so that the follicles disappear. I haven’t tried Jergens in a few years, I think last summer I used Nivea gradual tanning lotion and don’t recall any scent issues. Is the smell with Jergens really that bad? I’ve notice this is a frequent complain around here.

          • Humdilly

            The jergens smell is the least smelly of all sunless tanners I’ve used. Some people don’t smell it at all. I have always reacted extremely to the chemical smell – I think it’s like how perfume reacts differently on different people. If I get a professional spray tan or use a full blown tanner instead of a gradual tanner I can’t comfortably go out in public without a shower. And I’ve had people near me comment about “what is that weird smell?”

            Now I want laser hair removal on my legs even more than I already did.

          • ANON NY

            Jergens redid their formula this year. In the past, I thought it was absolutely awful. The new stuff is actually pretty odarless. Would definitely recommend.

        • j

          I’ve had a lot of success with using coconut oil and exfoliation to reduce the appearance of the red spots on my legs. Before I get in the shower, I slather a good coconut oil on my legs. Once I’ve washed my hair and have put in conditioner, I put on those exfoliation gloves (or use a loofah, or one of those rigid sea sponges) and thoroughly exfoliate my legs. I do this once or twice a week and it’s made a huge difference. It’s also helped with those annoying KP bumps on the backs of my upper arms. I read about it on a KP forum a long time ago and wish I could find the original post.

      • Anonymous

        It does still stink unfortunately…My bf says I don’t smell bad when I use it but I don’t like it. Use Tan Towels! Use them at night after a shower and you will wake up tanner. The color is great and they are easy to use since they are a towel. Plus they are wet enough you can feel where you apply the color and you won’t miss spots.

    • CKB

      Your legs sound like mine! I still go bear legged in the summer, and try to not think about what they actually look like. I always wear skirts & shorts that are knee length, so people would have to be looking way down to see what my lower legs look like.

      However, this year I’m going to try the lotion I use on the KP on my arms – Lac-hydrin – to see if it helps with the bumps & red spots. It’s really helped with the bumps on my arms, but the red spots are still there, although they are a little fainter, I think (I hope).

      Seriously, if I could change one thing about my body it would be my skin.

      • Maggie

        “bear legged” – I’m picturing someone with the legs of a bear wearing a pencil skirt! No snark, just made me laugh.

        • CKB

          Oops! Lol. My mind is still recovering from being ill earlier this week. Maybe I shouldn’t be back at work today! Hee hee.

    • Pest

      Self-acceptance. Your skin sounds like mine, but I’ve just decided to accept my natural-looking-well-shaven-pastiness. Who cares? I suddenly decided a couple of years ago that it just does not make sense to me that women are self-conscious of the skin on their legs in ways they aren’t about the skin forearms.

    • hellskitchen

      Sally Hansen airbrush legs spray. It’s a lifesaver for me. I have lots of hair growth on my legs and thin skin so you can see tiny spots all over my legs even after I shave. The SH spray evens out the tone and stays on all day. I usually rub some moisturizer on it after it’s dry so as to add back some shine to my legs

    • MaggieLizer

      Dermadoctor KP scrub has worked really well for the KP on my arms and the backs of my legs. You have to use it just about daily, but it keeps the redness at bay and just about eliminates the bumps. Works much better than Rx products I’ve tried.

      Tanners – I’ve been using one from Bath & Body Works that’s worked out pretty nicely; it works very gradually so I never get streaks. I’ve used Clarins in the past, too, but it’s more prone to streaking if you’re not careful.

    • Super anon for this

      I used to be a cutter so my thighs are covered in very obvious scars. They are completely covered at work but in the summer you can see them when its so hot that I’m forced to wear shorts. The scars are a part of me and I try not to worry about it but its hard, especially when strangers give me the side-eye. On the plus side, I’m not worried about the rest of the things that I don’t like about my legs! Acceptance is really the best thing to strive for, if you ask me.

      • TackyMum

        {{{{Super anon for this}}}} A very close relative was also a cutter, who worked hard as an adolescent to resolve the issues that were causing the cutting. Good for you on your hard work on acceptance.

    • recent grad

      Speaking of KP – does anyone have any good tips for dealing with it? I am mainly concerned about the back of my arms.

  16. BB

    Ugh. Anyone else dealing with what feels like the worst allergy attack of the decade right now? :( It’s finally warm and I am afraid to go outside. I even tried to pre-empt this by starting my antihistamines two weeks ago, but to no avail. Ack! (Okay, rant over :P)

    • Kanye East

      I am basically allergic to the entire state where I currently live, except during winter.

      I kind of hate everybody who can enjoy springtime without feeling like their immune system is sabotaging their will to live.

      • AIMS

        This might not be the solution for everyone but a friend of mine had very successful results with acupuncture. She gets it done every spring and hasn’t taken a claritin in years. I am considering it myself. 2 treatments and if it works, my life will be awes0me.

      • Anonymous

        this is me.

        I have decent success with swimming (it blows out my sinues and leaves them pretty pollen free after I swim so I wake up the next day feeling much better than “normal”)

        I also wash out my sinues before bed.

        and working out also helps with blowing out my sinues, if I do it outside though, I gotta make sure to wash.

        my husband has done allergy shots and it’s helped him a lot.

    • eek

      Yes. they are awful. I’m a mess. And, I realized my allergy nose spray was messing up my vision (thought it was migraines), so ehhhhh.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I’ve never really had trouble with allergies, but yes! I’ve been sneezing constantly since last weekend and had a horrible headache for days, which luckily has mostly subsided now. I’ve never dealt with this before so I’m trying to figure out what is helpful for me.

    • Anonymous

      Claritin-D or Allegra-D, available over the counter. It’s not the same without the “D”. Even half a tablet has me breathing so well that I actually worry that I might get hooked on it so I don’t keep packages around. But if it’s really bad – both of these work so well it is unbelievable.

    • BB

      Thanks for letting me commiserate! :) I am usually totally fine on my mix of meds: Zyrtec + Flonase + eye drops and barely feel a thing. This spring is really bad for whatever reason. I started the Zyrtec a few weeks ago, and just got back on the Flonase, so hopefully that will kick in soon. I’m even doing things I haven’t done since I was a child in the days before 24-hour antihistamine pills, washing my hair after I get home to get rid of excess pollen and vacuuming everything.

  17. Boston bound

    Any suggestions for a very last minute anniversary dinner in Boston tonight with our 3 month old? It’s our 10 year wedding anniversary and we’d like to go out for dinner. We don’t need fine dining, just good food and a place that won’t balk at a 3 month old coming along. We are both vegetarian (no seafood). Thanks!

    • Meg Murry

      Not many specific suggestions on a restaurant, but if the weather is nice, would you consider calling ahead for take-out and making a picnic of it at the Common, Esplanade or any random park? There are a lot of pretty decent restaurants that offer carry-out – one I can think of off the top of my head that is veggie-friendly and does carry out is India Quality in Kenmore Square – you’ll just want to find a nicer picnic spot than Kenmore, like the Fens or Common. I’m not in Boston right now, but we do the picnic thing pretty often when we think our kids just can’t handle sitting still at a restaurant for that long.

    • Brant

      It’s nice enough to eat outside at Barking Crab. I know it’s casual, but it’s kid friendly!

    • LR

      Maybe too late and not the best vegetarian option, but I had dinner recently at the Russell House Tavern in Cambridge and liked it very much. They have a side of honey & chili roasted brussels sprouts that are incredible. Most of their entrees aren’t vegetarian-friendly but they have delicious pizzas too.

  18. Portsmouth, NH

    Thanks for the great suggestions yesterday for Portsmouth. I just realized that it’s graduation weekend this weekend (UNH is 12 miles away). Should we still plan on going, or go another weekend? Will everything be crazy crowded? I would prefer to go this weekend because the weather will be nice. We don’t mind crowds, but I wasn’t sure how hectic it would be. Thanks!

    • BB

      Ooo! I missed that post yesterday. I have family in Portsmouth, so I am up there a lot. Can’t really say anything about UNH graduation, but I have to tell you that my absolute favorite ice cream place ever is Lago’s in Rye NH (which is basically Portsmouth). I never miss it whenever I visit.

  19. SFedits

    Shoe TJ. Suggestions welcome for comfortable ballerina flats with arch support, from those of you whose feet run medium to slightly wide. Thank you so much!

  20. NOLA

    My boss’s assistant has interrupted every one of my staff evaluation meetings this morning by knocking then walking right into my office. I think I need a do not disturb sign.

  21. real estate brokers?

    Are there any commercial real estate brokers here? I’m a real estate/business transactions lawyer seriously considering/planning a career change. I like people. I don’t see or talk to enough people when I’m doing my work. I’ve always been interested in real estate. Questions: (1) Why do you think there are so few women in commercial real estate brokerages? When I see women in these firms, they are often retail leasing agents. (2) What are personality traits common to the most successful brokers you know? (3) What patterns do you see in the careers of successful brokers? (4) What patterns do you see among unsuccessful brokers?

    Thanks in advance!

    • Anonymous

      There are too few women in any job where your role is to negotiate deals with (mostly male) businessmen. I have seen the retail women as well, and a lot of their jobs are to give tours, look good, and schmooze, and let the higher ups negotiate the terms. Unfortunately, the only successful brokers I know are workaholics.

  22. Lisa

    I agree. This would be a great blazer to wear to a networking event. Totally corporate, but easy to recognize:). Friendly, but appropriate.

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