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If/when everyone heads back to work, it may be rough “returning” to heels right off the bat — so I was intrigued to see that Uniqlo has a line of extremely affordable “comfort feel” shoes, including these cute flats.
According to the details page, the insoles are three-dimensional and “wrap around your feet like a pillow;” the insoles are also antibacterial to control odor.
Many of the flats and heels are online exclusives, but they're getting pretty good reviews — and they're only $29.90, available in sizes 5.5–9. Nice.
Looking for comfortable flats in extended sizes? Some of our more affordable Hall of Famers include Børn (sizes 5–12), Sam Edelman (4–14), and Rothys (5–12).
Some of our favorite comfortable flats for work as of 2024 include M.M.LaFleur, AGL, and French Sole. On the more affordable side, check out Rothy's, Sam Edelman, and Rockport. We've also rounded up the best loafers for work, and our favorite sneakers for work outfits!
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
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Anonymous
My boss said our department be wfh until there is a cure or vaccine. Wish me luck! I think I could actually like wfh if I wasn’t also under stay at home orders.
Anon
omg that’s crazy. There might literally never be a vaccine! I understand not wanting to rush everyone back right now, but it seems so premature to announce that you’ll be staying home until X condition is met, especially when X might never happen…
Anonymous
No. It’s fine. Even if it is permanent, some jobs don’t need communal offices.
Monday
Yeah, it’s easy to forget, but for some work situations there is really no reason that everyone needs to work in the same place at all. Returning to the office is not an end in itself, it’s something to do because (if) it serves other goals.
Anon
Announcing “we’re permanently working from home” seems a lot less weird than announcing “we’re working from home until there’s a cure or vaccine.” What’s weird to me is conditioning it on an event(s) that may never happen, not implanting a permanent change.
Anon
Implementing.
anon
+1
anon
+1000 this is a crazy statement. Saying “we are keeping an eye on the situation and expect to be WFH until at least [date]” is one thing but saying we are staying WFH until something that may never happen happens is insane
OP
Other departments will be returning to the office in a few months, some departments (mine included) will be wfh. It’s actually a very thorough plan based on capacity of the office and other real world limitations.
anon
That’s helpful context but I still think this is a silly standard. There may never be a cure or a vaccine. Which means they are effectively saying “you’ll be WFH forever” which is fine but if that’s the case then why not just say that?
Jeffiner
The picking a date to come back seems crazy to me. The virus isn’t following any deadlines in anyone’s spreadsheet.
anon
Right – hence the “at least until [date]” wording, suggesting that [date] would be the earliest but that it may get pushed back further. This allows employees to plan for a period of time with certainty while also acknowledging that WFH may continue beyond that.
Anonymous
Plus as these dates get pushed back repeatedly, isn’t that a waste of everyone’s time and detrimental to real planning. First it was two weeks, then two more weeks, are we still pretending it might be 2 more weeks?
Anonymous
Agree. The virus isn’t date specific as much as we want it to be. Who can tell when you’ll have two weeks or more with drops in hospital admissions or deaths? Especially with so much reopening and how that may send things back a bit. That’s the reality–it’s not as neat and tidy as saying “July we’ll be ready.” I think an employer that’s saying work from home until we know we can provide a safe environment–because of a vaccine or meaningful therapeutic–isn’t a bad thing. Definitely better than the flip side of forcing folks back just to adhere to an arbitrary calendar date or simply the desire to “resume to normal” when what you are asking them to do carries significant risk. My husband is immune compromised. My office mate (we rotate days in a shared office) just tested positive last week. Had my employer not let us work from home, I can’t imagine how awful that could have been. This is truly life and death stuff.
anon
I mean the two week periods don’t have to be two week periods, the employer could have easily said “we’ll be work from home at least through August 1” or whatever and that as that date approaches, they’ll re-evaluate and update.
Also, stating no return until vaccine or cure seems like a poor business decision and something they will likely regret in a year or two if they want people to return to work and now have set up a case for plaintiff’s lawyers to argue that the employer knew that it was unsafe to have people return to the office without a vaccine so anyone who works there and gets COVID would probably sue.
Anon
I think tying it to something that may never happen is insane, but I don’t think going to permanent work from home is insane. I manage a large team, and this has made really obvious which roles can easily be work from home permanently, which, while obviously the current situation isn’t ideal, it’s helpful to know – it opens up a lot of hiring options geographically, and we’ve made very clear to the team at large that even after they’re back in the office, they’re welcome to continuing working from home. Also saves us money on office space to be honest…
Pure Imagination
Nope, agreed it’s not insane. Some positions can truly be done at home on a permanent basis. I think there are a lot of benefits to WFH that employers are going to latch onto – can recruit for the best talent nationally, employees appreciate flexibility, productivity is higher, etc etc. That’s not even considering the immense contributions widespread WFH has made to slowing the pandemic.
Anon
As someone in a LCOL area, let me add another dimension to “recruit the best talent nationally”: not only can you recruit nationally, but you won’t have to pay big-city money. You’ll find that a lot of brilliant, talented, educated people in Tulsa, Boise, Raleigh will do the job for 20%-30% less than you’re paying people in DC.
Anon4This
My rant: I feel like the people making these decisions are in a bubble. I live in a VHCOL city in a 2 bedroom apartment. We don’t have a home office. And, as long as childcare is closed, that means we have 2 adults WFH + 2 kids at home. It’s easy to say “Oh, everyone just work from home” when you’re the GC of a corporation and have a 5 bedroom house with a dedicated home office…
anon
I feel this comment in my bones.
Anonymous
My office = one cushion on the couch; kids zooming for school 4 feet away.
Anonymous
Agreed. This is very challenging, particularly on video with clients, when in a small space. We are hearing a lot of messaging around “don’t worry if your office space isn’t perfect” but I know clients are judging. And I feel very unsuccessful because I don’t have a super professional dedicated home office space.
Monday
…and who brought your nanny and housekeeper to your vacation home for the duration! Yes, this situation is underscoring wealth and privilege all over the place. I had a few fashion influencers I followed for fun on Instagram, but I’ve been so turned off by their content lately that I stopped. They’re not necessarily doing anything wrong, I’m just not in the mood for more reminders of how much easier this is for rich people.
Anonymous
If I were rich, I hope I would not bother with instagramming everything. That sounds exhausting. The whole point of being rich, IMO, is to be able to relax and enjoy.
Anon
I agree. That’s why I appreciate places giving people options. I’m on of the people loving working from home. I have a great home office setup and no kids. I still have some hiccups (dogs, spouse with competing zoom calls) but I fully appreciate that I have it good and that work from home is near impossible for some people.
Anonymous
I know it’s tough, but what would you like to happen? I live in a city/hot zone, so I’m having a hard time envisioning any safe way to return to offices. For example, the virus spreads easily in enclosed spaces (see studies on the restaurant and call center spread) and there’s no such thing as social distancing on public transportation (as it’s currently being run). Even with masks and sanitizer or whatever, it seems outbreaks would be inevitable. Setting dates for a return then pushing them out over and over is discouraging …
Anon4This
OP — oh, I think it’s the right call to keep us all WFH. But what I would love is some acknowledgement from senior management that this is just really rough on those of us who don’t have dedicated home offices, SAH partners, etc.
Small Law Partner
Yup. I’m in a one bedroom condo with my husband and the only rooms bedroom, kitchen, combined living/dining, and the bathrooms. He set up a desk in what is actually a wide hallway to our bedroom, and I have taken over the dining table.
Anon
I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with my husband, child, and pet. We both WFH and I’m firmly of the belief that people who can work from home, should work form home…. because we are still vastly more privileged than most of the people going through this crisis. We have jobs that can be done remotely and workplaces that are working with us. We’re lucky, full stop, and the minor annoyances of not having an office are not on the scale of what other people are facing.
anon
ugh, totally agree with your last sentence. I miss hanging out with people. I can do my job just fine from home.
Lyssa
I wonder how long they are going to hold onto the property. It may make sense to switch to all work at home for an indefinite time period for some jobs, but only if you stop maintaining an office space.
Anon
My firm owns their building and I’d be shocked if they sold it or leased it out. I would like to see them invest in better IT assets for the staff WFH. Most of the attorneys already had bought themselves good WFH systems because we WFH nights and weekends. Some of the staff are still using small personal laptops that are not ideal and should be expected to buy their own.
Anonymous
I think my husband’s company is planning to go to permanent WFH to avoid having to maintain their crumbling buildings.
anonchicago
The governor of IL is not permitting gatherings of over 50 until there’s a cure or vaccine. That means no conventions, no concerts, no sporting events, and most restaurants closed. It’s insane and I hope he comes to his senses but it’s not likely.
Anonymous
Wait until Chicago becomes a hot spot & you’ll be wondering why he let the crowds get that large.
Housecounsel
Isn’t Chicago already a hot spot? I feel like the guy can’t win.
Anon
A lot of governors are doing different rules for the biggest cities though. Don’t know if Pritzker is doing that but if not I can see non-Chicago residents being justifiably annoyed.
Anonymous
So . . . he does not care much about his state’s huge unfunded pension liabilities? Or is he just going to put Illinois into bankruptcy? The math is the math.
Anonymous
IL was going to end up in bankruptcy with or without covid.
IL
Yes, state and local govt is taking a particularly strong/harsh stance on this. No parks either – so people picnic, play soccer (and practice golf?!) on an empty lot by my apartment where some buildings were torn down.
This has expedited our plans to move out-of-state and buy a house, even in the crazy circumstance that we may not be able to visit in-person before putting in an offer. I haven’t been further than a half mile from this apartment in two months.
BB
I was so excited to go buy these (and they come in orange!) but they only go up to a size 9 :( It reminds me of when I used to live in Asia and how impossible it was to find shoes for my size 9.5 feet!
Anon
Is Uniqlo even serious about western markets? Stopping at 9 is so odd.
BB
My experience is that they’ve done okay on the clothing side. I mean, I do have to buy XL sometimes for my size 12 body, but that’s better than when I shopped at Uniqlos in Asia and there wasn’t remotely anything close to fitting me! The funny thing is…I’m 100% Asian myself! I just happen to be larger than average.
MagicUnicorn
+1
I thought it was a typo at first.
Pure Imagination
OK, this might be the most oddly specific question I’ve ever posted here, but I have a very sensitive, high-strung (but friendly) cat who really hates having her nails clipped. It’s become increasingly difficult to get it done without her freaking out. I’ll ask the vet when she has her annual check-up in six months (not going back any sooner since my cat panics at the vet), but are there any supplements or medications that can basically calm the cat down for a short period? I feel like we could get this done if I could just help her take the edge off her anxiety, but the popular Feliway spray doesn’t seem to do anything and idk what the other options might be, if any.
Monday
By vet prescription, Gabapentin is the standard in my experience. That said, my cat is too smart and too wily to take it in any form, so if you figure out that part, let us know how! (I’m able to clip her nails if I reassure her a lot, but she is so uncooperative at the vet that I can’t even bring her in without sedation.)
cat socks
There is a medication called gabapentin that is safe for cats. I gave it to my kitty with a heart condition because he would freak out in the car on the way to the vet. It comes in a liquid or capsule. Feliway doesn’t work on my cats either.
One of my cats acts like I’m going to murder him when I try to clip his nails. It ends up being a two person job with him wrapped in a towel. I have to do the same to give him medication so if he’s all wrapped up, I’ll just trim his nails.
Anon
Omg this is my cat to a tee. He’s very big and strong so if he doesn’t want to do something, he’s not going to do it. I asked the vet to do it at his annual checkup and at first she said no problem, but by the end she had brought in two assistants to help, and they were literally sweating.
So our solution is to not clip his nails! It’s fine. He’s a little clicky clicky on the wooden staircase but other than that, he takes care of it himself. We have lots of scratchy things for him (his favorite is a corrugated cardboard thing) and he seems to take it out on those.
Cats maintain their own claws in a natural environment. Your cat will be fine without you trimming her nails.
Pure Imagination
Yeah, I’ve considered just not trimming them, but she seems to limp slightly if the edge claws aren’t trimmed and they also get caught on things. We’ve had to help her get unstuck from her cat tree and from a mesh bag that she started playing with. I’m sure she could have eventually freed herself (at least from the tree), but being stuck adds more stress. Sadly, she won’t use the corrugated cardboard thing ever…I’ve tried to make it more enticing with catnip and no dice.
Anon
I don’t own a cat so I don’t know how it got to this, but my cousin’s cat’s nail grew and curled in and ended up digging into her foot. She was limping for a good while and needed to be sedated at the vet to get it clipped and extracted.
Anon
Agree with the gabapentin suggestion. Unfortunately, for my high strung cats, it’s actually much easier to trim their nails than to get them to take meds, as long as there are two of us. They really hate it, but if one person is holding them, it only takes a minute and they get over it quickly when we give them treats (we don’t bother with back feet). I’ve it done myself, but it is a lot harder. If you live alone, can you get a friend to help, at least once shelter in place is done?
Anon
I had a very high-strung cat who liked to claw and scratch. I kept the clippers nearby, waited until he was calm, then clipped one or two claws. He jumped away, but that was fine. A few days later, repeat procedure, again clip one or two claws, let him run away. He eventually figured out that this was a new thing, but was not a scary thing, and submitted to claw clippings like a champ.
The key is to keep yourself calm while you are doing it (the animal will take its cues from you) and understand that your goal is not a complete mani-pedi; it’s to show the cat that claw trimmings are NBD.
Need a new name
My cats both really hate having their claws clipped, so my goal is to do it super quickly and with minimum fuss.
I’ve found the best solution is to put the cat in the bathroom sink (no water!!) so they are relatively self contained when I am grabbing one paw to clip the nails. Move fast, and if I don’t get all the claws, try again in a day or two.
Still on the stressful side, but much better than if we wrapped them up or otherwise had to fight to hold them.
Pure Imagination
Thanks all. I’ll ask the vet about gabapentin.
Anonome
This is not what you asked, but in case it helps: I’m a life-long cat owner and fosterer, and I’ve found that some cats who don’t tolerate the sound and pressure of clipping will tolerate dremeling instead. Generally I never try to do all 18 at once (whether clipping or dremeling) but I just wanted to float the idea in case you want to give it a whirl.
IME high-strung cats object to the feeling of the toe being pinned more than the slicing act of clipping itself, so dremeling can ease them into it better by allowing you to just brush up against the claw and build their tolerance.
Anonymous
We do one paw at a time with one person holding the cat. Usually play with them a ton first and sprinkle some good quality catnip on the person holding them!
Anonymous
Post in mod but to add, the more stressed they get the more stressed you get which they will then pick up on. I find singing along to music helps keep me relaxed and also distracts them (I may admit the cats have their own songs).
Ses
For those who have trouble getting the cats to take gabapentin, for me an essential ingredient was a pill tool. It’s a little plastic thing that holds the pill and allows you to get it to the back of their throat which prevents them from spitting it out. The river site or your vet will have it.
Also, I didn’t want to drug her for nail clipping (only for vet visits) and I found my mean cat was less stressed during nail clipping when I kinda lightly sat/crouched upon her while she was on a soft surface (couch or bed) and held her firmly. Holding her seemed more stressful for clipping while being (gently!) mashed down a little seemed oddly to make her feel better.
Jen
This is late, but we bought a cat muzzle and grooming bag for our cat! We found that with just the muzzle on (it covers their eyes), our cat would kinda go limp and we could do all of his claws super fast. The bag is a little much (you have to unzip for each leg) but it works.
Antibody testing
Has anyone here gotten antibody testing? And gotten a result back? I am a frequent traveler (before) but live in a fly-over state where there is a push for CV testing. I don’t want to be tested (that sounds like something I won’t volunteer to endure unless I sense a clear need or have contact with a + person) for CV. I just want to be tested for antibodies.
Anon
You can get it done at commercial labs for about $120. I’m not sure about reliability. Personally, the only way I’d put much stock in a positive antibody test is if I’d had symptoms consistent with the virus in February/March but hadn’t been able to get a diagnostic test.
anon
This. I had symptoms consistent with the virus in late February and me + husband had traveled in the 2 weeks prior and live in NY. I still wouldn’t really put much stock in a positive test based on what I’ve read so far.
Anon
I am in CA and had a week of some awful f i-like illness in early March and could not get tested. My friend in NY had a very similar illness about a week later, also could not get tested.
He tested positive for antibodies last week. I am kind of jealous because he’s gotten it over with. I suspect I’d test positive but I’m waiting until the medical world coalesces around the right test. The last thing I’d want to do is change my behavior based on a false positive.
Anon
*flu-like
Sometimes I really don’t understand how autocorrect thinks it’s helping me out
LaurenB
Here, they are asking health care providers to test for antibodies so that if they are positive, they can donate plasma. The test is a blood test and takes a couple of days to come back. Having said that, they don’t want it done for the general population – it’s not really a substitute for true “do you have COVID” testing.
Senior Attorney
Yes, I had it a couple of weeks ago and it was negative. Cost $150 at my doctor’s office.
Anonymous
You are the only negative I’ve heard of.
In my city, about 7-10% of people volunteering for the nasal swap for + for the virus. IDK that I’d volunteer for the swap even though they really want to increase testing to include the general population (I guess they are looking for asymptomatic people with it, but that is just a point in time — next week could be different even if you are negative now).
I’d rather confirm my exposure, especially as things open up (or confirm my non-exposure, to stay vigilant) and send my kids to outside day camps (inside is on hold for now, which I don’t disagree with).
Anon
These are entirely different things. You’re talking about diagnostic testing for sick people. Senior Attorney is talking about antibody testing for people who either had no symptoms or had a symptoms in the past but couldn’t get a test.
Anon
Having it done later today. We just (just!) found out that two people from the cruise my fiancé took at the end of February tested positive afterwards. Both of us had fever, cough, and body aches in mid-March. We weren’t tested because there wasn’t availability at the time.
Anon
It’s available in my state now but at the same location doing regular COVID testing. I don’t want to be in the same place as people that think they have COVID if there’s any chance I test negative for antibodies. I’ve considered calling to see if they are doing parking lot testing but I’m still concerned if the same staff are doing the regular COVID tests and the antibody tests.
Anon
Same.
Anonymous
There is an urgent care chain in our area that is doing diagnostic tests at some locations and antibody tests at others.
Anon
I got it done, and it was negative. I went through healthlabs.com and went to a Quest Diagnostics for the blood draw. It was $154.
Office Reentry Conversations
My office is having webinars about reentry and what it looks like. It’s a global company and they are taking this seriously – lots of self-imposed cleaning, physical distancing and other accommodations are being made and benchmarks set that must be hit before they are willing to allow the first people to reenter the office space. I work in downtown Boston and live in the burbs. I drive in and park downtown. I have an office. I have a 2 year old that goes to daycare. I am not high risk in any fashion, not myself or immediate family (not talking about grandparents or anything like that).
They’re starting to ask us about our comfort level for returning to the office. Daycare is closed until June 29, so I haven’t thought much beyond that date but I’m now being asked to. I don’t really know how to answer their question “when will you be comfortable coming back?”.
To those who identify as being fairly level-headed/practical about all of this (ie: not until there’s a vaccine – that’s just not realistic to me)…. what would your response be? Is there a certain benchmark you’re personally considering? I suppose the reality is they may not even allow me to come back until the fall based on the phased reentry plan they’re rolling out but I’m going to be point blank asked at some point about my comfort level, and I don’t want to have not thought through it.
Anon
Have a baby, used to live in the suburbs and work in Boston. Here’s what I would say: “My daycare does not open until the end of June, so I do need the flexibility to work from home until then. After that, based on my own circumstances – car commuter, healthy, everyone in my family is healthy – I am comfortable returning to work when the office opens up. I’ll continue to monitor the situation; there may be an outbreak at my daycare, in the office, an October surge, and we’ll have a discussion if it comes to that.”
I suspect you are being asked if you have any particular circumstances that make it challenging for you to return, e.g., Commuter Rail commuter with an immunocompromised spouse.
Anon
Childcare is my big sticking point, as a low risk individual. I realize that some people on this board see nannies or nanny shares as a realistic solution, but that’s just not the case for many people. If daycares are ordered closed in your area until a certain date, I would give that as the earliest date I would go back. My situation is a little more complex because daycares are allowed to be open in our state, but our employer closed their on site daycare, which my kids attend. I feel like it’s hypocritical to order employees back when your onsite childcare used by many employees is closed, but at the same time there is some group childcare available in the community (not as high quality as the employer’s care though). Daycare aside, I would also want to know my employer was taking some precautions for employer safety which might include any or all of: requiring masks, reduced capacity in the office, temperature checks and a separate pot of paid sick leave if you don’t already have it.
Jeffiner
One of my local government leaders said he would be comfortable re-opening the city if we saw a drop in cases, deaths, and hospitalizations over a two-week period. I’ve been tracking that data for the past two weeks, and we seem to have plateaued. My city does have over a hundred hospital beds and ventilators available, but a spike in cases starting at this plateau could overrun them.
Anonymous
I will be comfortable coming back when we are allowed to reasonably use the restroom or the kitchenette (coffee, water, keep lunch in fridge/heat in microwave) or other common areas (printer, scanner, etc). I do not have time in my day to wait in line to enter the kitchenette or bathroom or copy room because only one person at a time can be in there and maintain 6 feet – I have to be able to do these things quickly between calls. I’m also not thrilled about the idea of wearing masks in the office, but as long as I don’t have to wear one when I’m sitting in my own office I guess it’s not that big a deal. I can’t be on calls all day with a mask on, though, the mask muffles your speech too much.
Anonymous
We have one-person bathroom use right now, with one bathroom per gender per very large floor. I have better odds at home.
Anonymous
Thanks for this. There’s no way some of the social distancing/sanitization/safety procedures that are being promoted could be practically/realistically in place at many workplaces (and allow work to get done).
Pure Imagination
You might personally find waiting for a vaccine “impactical,”, but a lot of people don’t. The world-famous virologist Peter Piot has said that a vaccine is the only way to get back to “normal” life; without a vaccine, life is going to continue to be significantly altered. Here is an excellent article on his own scary bout with COVID-19: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19
Personally, I’m not ready to go back to the office until new cases and deaths are negligible in my state, but ideally, not until there’s a vaccine. I see no reason why I should be in the office in a 100% WFH-friendly industry – if it takes years, it takes years, and that’s not a significant problem for me. The calculus is different for people in other types of jobs.
Anonymous
Well, the reason is because your boss hates WFH and will probably insist on you coming back and at some point you might lose your job over this.
Anonymous
If enough people feel the same way as Pure Imagination, her boss might not have a choice. If my employer insists on having us back in the office, it’s likely that half the staff would quit and not easily be replaced.
Anon
The experts saying we won’t return to normal life until there’s a vaccine are talking about a full return to pre-quarantine life which includes international travel and events like the Super Bowl that bring tens of thousands of people together in tight quarters. Every expert I’ve heard quoted says there has to be a happy medium where we return to work and school (with precautions) before a vaccine, given that it’s likely years away.
Anonymous
The problem is that nobody is implementing the right precautions. We don’t have testing, contact tracing, and isolation. Nobody seems to have come up with a good solution to prevent transmission through respiratory droplets, unless we can somehow all wear N95 masks all the time. Far-UVC light is a possibility for killing the virus in the air, but it doesn’t seem to be commercially available. The NY Times has an op-ed proposing that everyone work 4 days and then stay home for 10 days, which makes some logical sense (although I’d argue it should be 14 days at home, not 10), but there are too many people out there who wouldn’t follow the protocol and it would only work if everyone in each household were on the same schedule.
anon
+1 I think most people accept that things aren’t going to look like they did in 2019 until there’s a vaccine or herd immunity because December 2019 had things like the Super Bowl, 3 day music festivals, 2 hour security lines in international terminals at airports with travelers from all over the world standing on top of each other, huge conferences with thousands of attendees from all over the world in the same space every 2 days in Las Vegas, etc. all existed in 2019. I don’t think anyone other than a few anxious posters here think that no “return to normal until a vaccine” is saying that 75% of the population will work from home, there will be no gatherings of more than 2 people and no business who can’t keep 6 feet between customers can open until there is a vaccine.
Anonymous
Yes agreed.
Pure Imagination
I mean, that’s what I think Piot was saying. A lot of people want to jump right back into business as usual, including things like festivals and sporting events, and his position was that that is not going to happen until there’s a vaccine. No one seems to be saying that what we might call “soft reopenings” won’t be possible until then.
Anon
Oh, look who’s here to chime in with the absolute worst-case scenario! Thanks Pure Imagination, you never disappoint. Never change, PI, never change.
Pure Imagination
Your obsession with seeing my posts in the worst possible light is getting disturbing, honestly. I’m not sure what is going on in your life that makes you act this way, but you should know it’s really, really weird.
Anonymous
Because your posts are super condescending and make it clear you think anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. I’m not this anonymous here and I haven’t commented on you before, but you post sneering comments constantly that imply those of us who aren’t as excessively anxious as you are just stupid people who love death and it’s really gotten old. Feel free to carry on but give me a break with the poor innocent insulted me act.
Pure Imagination
If you find me highlighting what Dr. Peter Piot said condescending, I can’t help you. You seem determined to hate whatever I post; I’m absolutely positive you’ve posted before. You know that even if you think I’m a moron, it’s not necessary to come here and spread negativity like that, right?
Anonymous
Girl pot kettle. Keep posting all you want but you’re gonna keep getting called out on it.
Anon
I appreciate your perspective Pure Imagination and sorry you are getting treated this way.
Anon
Let’s not try to justify being a bully with this “you’re gonna get called out” nonsense. Pure Imagination’s comment was a non-issue until the mean girls went on the prowl yet again. PI, sorry this keeps happening.
Anon
LYou need to stop stalking Pure Imagination (and I assume you’re the one who hates LaurenB too). It’s very creepy. I know I’m not the only one who has noticed it since I saw at least a few posts about this last week too.
Anonymous
Yeah, these posters are really weird. So weird that I’ve wondered of Pure Imagination/LaurenB were commenting on themselves as anons for attention. But whoever is doing this is definitely in creepy stalker/pathetic loser territory and needs to spend their time getting help for this sad fixation.
Anonymous
Ugh just stop. PI’s post was fine. Can you stop doing this almost daily?
Ellen
I don’t get it. Pure Imagination’s p’osts do NOT seem out of the ordinary to me. What is it that peeople are all getting tied up in their panties about? Kat/Kate/Elizabeth, do you understand what all of the fuss is about? This reminds me of my days at the ABA, where I was villified by the editor’s. FOOEY on that! I have matured and moved on, and suggest that the nay-sayer’s here do so too! YAY!!!
Anon
How about don’t slag on other posters who have actual handles unless you have a consistent handle, too?
anon
You know, it’s possible to disagree without being rude or attacking the poster.
Anonymous
You know what you’re right and I’m sorry. All these types of posts really get under my skin because u simply can’t handle the anxiety spreading but there’s no reason to be nasty and I can and should scroll on by.
Anonymous
Also, I’m sorry, PI- I shouldn’t have jumped on you like that.
Pure Imagination
Hey, thank you. I appreciate that. We’ve definitely all been there.
Anon
I think the challenge is that we may never have a vaccine or a cure. There’s no (real, effective) vaccine for malaria, and we’ve been trying for decades. We don’t even have great options for treating malaria if you get it. There’s no vaccine for HIV. There is reason for optimism because some of the recent experiments are promising and we had a headstart from work done on a SARS vaccine. But there’s no promise.
I’ve worked in drug discovery (for malaria) and public health (at an org that ran vaccination programs), and I really worry about the degree to which hopes are being pinned on a vaccine or a blockbuster treatment. I think the narrative around vaccines/cures enables decision-makers to avoid doing the hard work of thinking about what it means if we have to live with covid for the foreseeable future – we’re putting off hard decisions on the assumption that some day, This Will All Be Over. But “over” may not mean a vaccine or a cure – it may mean a new reality where we live with this as a chronic societal risk. There are hard questions we need to talk about to plan for that future:
What kinds of behavioral and societal changes will be helpful and sustainable? (The latter is key, btw – you can’t design public health interventions for perfect humans that don’t exist; you have to design them for the imperfect ones that do.)
What kind of public health infrastructure do we need for testing, tracing, and treatment?
What steps should we take keep high-risk individuals safe (bc telling them they just have to stay home forever while everyone else gets back to normal and we make no societal changes is not acceptable from a human perspective)? Note: I worry about this one a LOT because the current approach in states like GA has a lot of risk of magnifying existing discrimination against disabled and chronically ill people.
What kinds of social programs do we need to enable us to manage periodic lockdowns, school closures, etc.?
How do we provide a good and consistent education to children in a world with periodic school closures, especially low-income kids?
I hope there’s a vaccine in the next two years. I hope we find a treatment that’s broadly effective. But we need to be having conversations around what our society looks like if we don’t. Otherwise, if we don’t get a vaccine/cure, we’ll just sort of stumble into our New Covid Future without any attempt at systematic planning – and that future will be, IMO, much worse for high-risk invididuals, low-income people, working families, and people of color.
Anon
Thank you for posting this. This sums up my frustration with the vaccine camp very well.
Anonymous
Yes, and for malaria we at least have bed nets, mosquito control, and drugs including preventives that are at least somewhat effective. We don’t have anything similar for SARS-Cov-2. All we have is fabric masks that people won’t even wear.
anon
That’s sorta the point though, right? We don’t know if any of those things will ever materialize so we need to start thinking about how to work with what we have in case the solutions we all are hoping for don’t materialize. We may never have the equivalent of nets or mosquito control for this, either. The answer can’t be that we all just live like we currently are forever if a vaccine or a cure doesn’t materialize. And realistically, that will never happen because people won’t keep doing this for an extended period of time. I really feel like we’re putting all our eggs in one basket and will be totally screwed when that doesn’t pan out.
JB
Yes, Yes, Yes. We need a plan that doesn’t involve relying on a vaccine that may not happen.
Anonymous
I am in a hotspot in my state, but it seems confined to nursing home / transit / intrafamily spread at the moment. I have young kids; schools are closed; camps may happen if they are outdoor-only (about 50%) and I have sitters lined up for some summer “vacation” weeks.
I told my work I’d be in when we re-open (in shifts, starting next week). We will be fairly spread out (spreading cube workers into conference rooms now that we no longer allow visitors) and I have an office with a door. I also said that I’d be trading off with spouse, so prioritizing in-office when needed and WFH as needed also until school restarts. I’m senior enough that I had been relaying school / daycare closings all along, so they “get” that that can be an issue for some.
Doors except fire doors will be propped open to minimize needing to touch surfaces. No more than 2 people to a space unless distanced.
Anonymous
Re. intrafamily spread, how do you think it gets into the house in the first place?
Anonymous
I think OP here meant “and family members thereof”
I would add to that list: transit takers. It should be “same-air-breathers-for-a-sustained-time” people (I think).
Small Law Partner
I don’t have kids, am low risk, have a very short driving commute, have my own office, and work at a small firm. I’d be comfortable going back now, but likely wouldn’t use the kitchenette. I’ve had to go in, and we’re get our temperature taken at the door and have to wear a mask everywhere but our own offices, and no one can go into your office except you.
I have a trial scheduled in about a month, and I’d be somewhat uncomfortable traveling to it, but I’ll do it if it stays on calendar.
Ponka
I have these amazing flats
They look exterenly gorgeous
https://www.amazon.co.uk/H%C3%96GL-Womens-Royal-Closed-Ballet/dp/B079MD2HYT
and then I bought these and they are even better (purple color by your advice)
https://www.hogl.co.uk/women-s-footwear-c70/shoes-c79/smart-c96/h%C3%B6gl-7-10-0012-tenderly-chic-pointed-toe-suede-court-shoes-in-fuchsia-p16858
anon
How soon will you go to a salon to get your hair done? Hair salons in my city opened up today. I have an appointment Saturday. I think it would be safe *enough* with the precautions they’re taking, but I feel guilty about leaving the house for something frivolous. I have to admit, the (ugly) state of my hair is really swaying me here, as is the fact that my beloved stylist has been without an income since mid-March.
Anon
I think it’s very individual. I’m not high risk and am not super worried about getting the virus, but I also just see a haircut as something totally nonessential, so even a minimal risk is not worth it to me for a haircut. I will send my kids back to daycare as soon as I can, even though that’s objectively higher risk, because it’s a lot more necessary for me. I have long, straight hair though so my hair mostly looks normal and I might feel differently if it looked really weird. If you feel comfortable getting a hair cut, I think it’s fine to go once it’s legally permitted.
cat socks
I probably won’t go until June sometime. I’ve been growing out my hair so it wasn’t a big deal for me to skip an appointment. I’m happy to let more of the “urgent” cases go first. I feel bad about my stylist not having had an income for a couple of months. Her husband is a personal trainer so I know he’s been out of work as well. They are a fairly small salon and when I got in on Saturday’s sometimes my stylist is the only one there. I know they are trying to figure out best practices for social distancing, etc.
LaurenB
Here’s a business that I think is going to go the way of the dinosaur: the lash places. I used to frequent them (though I had stopped a few months before the pandemic, just because I was trying to trim my budget and that was a clear non-essential). I can see hair salons making a comeback because you do need to cut your hair at some point, and I can see nail salons coming back at one point (presumably with plexiglas between patrons / nail techs), but lashes? That’s someone leaning over you, breathing directly on you for an hour. I don’t know how that industry will make it.
anne-on
I’m seeing NY/NJ/CT/MA all starting to say that if salons DO open, blowdryers will not be permitted. One of the first things I said to my husband was what a HUGE hit that will be to an entire cottage industry. He looked at me like I was nuts as I explained what blow-dry bars are and how many, many professional women in big cities will get their hair ‘blown out’ weekly if not more. I regularly do before a trip to Europe or if I’ll be ‘on’ for a big conference just so I don’t have to lug my blowdryer or fuss with my hair in a strange city.
Anon
i wish i lived in a state where blowdryers were not permitted. where i live, they are!
Ymanon
Genuinely curios question – what kind of hair type and style do you (generic you for anybody who uses blow-dry bars) have? I’m sort of imagining very thick (both thick strands and full-bodied) hair that is straightened, or sort of American politician’s hair? (That kind of volume is very unusual where I live, I don’t know what it’s called.)
I guess, my question is what is the benefit in terms of care, how much time (?) do you save, or is it the styling itself that’s the main point?
I really don’t get it, but I have fine (lots, just fine hair structure) hair that will be limp and greasy after one day, and blow-drying for sleekness will sadly make me look like a drowned cat combined with static, the same for long-haul fights. I can dry my hair in 3-5 minutes from wet, though, so drying’s not really a time waster.
Housecounsel
I have (had) a membership to a blow-dry bar. That is all the salon does. They put my membership on hold and I am wondering if the place will survive. My hair is pretty fine and not that hard to blow straight, but I loved going in once or twice a month and getting beachy waves or whatever. It took 45 minutes to an hour door-to-door and on a Saturday morning it was a nice ritual, followed by a latte. Sometimes I was just too lazy to do my own hair and loved going in to get it done.
I won’t hesitate to get my hair and nails done as soon as they open up in my area, but I have a sense of security, perhaps misplaced, because I didn’t get sick when my daughter did. I used to get my lashes done all the time, too. I may possibly have weaned myself off that for good, but wow, I really loved waking up and looking alive. I am using Latisse now. It’s been 2 months since I got my nails done (I was a dip manicure person) and my nails are still thin and peeling. I have used a lot of different strengtheners but so far nothing has worked.
anne-on
I have VERY thick wavy/curly Jewish hair. It blows out beautifully with lots of body but needs a decent amount of smoothing/wrangling otherwise (and specialty shampoo/conditioner/product I also need to then pack and lug along). It also IMMEDIATELY frizzes out in humid weather. Conferences in Orlando in summer are my hair nemesis. Having it ‘flat ironed’ means it is mostly manageable after the inevitable August downpours.
Never too many shoes...
My favourite part is the blowout. What’s the point otherwise? I often get one on the morning of a big motion or mediation – makes me feel like I can conquer the world.
LaurenB
How can having your hair blown out last more than a day?? I’ve had blow-outs for special occasions, like a wedding — and then it’s business as usual the next day. I don’t understand how they could last through a trip to Europe or for a full week. As for hair type, I have straight hair that goes to the top of my shoulders (and is now in a ponytail full time). Perhaps it’s different for different hair types?
anne-on
I’ll blow it out, have them stick it in a loose bun on top of my head, and then I take it down when I get to my destination (usually straight to the office, ugh). It’s fine for at least 2 full days, and then it is still good for a full, thick bouncy ponytail on day 3. Day 4 is usually when I wash it and wear it wavy and/or about when I head home.
I have VERY thick wavy hair and I cannot deal with the whole no blow dryers in bathrooms thing in London hotels. Argh.
Ymanon
I’ve never understood why UK code does not allow sockets in bathrooms, but I’ve come to like it in terms of hotels, simply because there will normally be a proper hairdryer in the room. My least favourite are those horrid, leaf-blower-like-things stuck to the wall that are so common other places in Europe. Some of those couldn’t blow out a candle.
Ymanon
My fantasy self also has a”a full, thick bouncy ponytail on day 3″, but I think I’ll just have to keep on being envious of that one! anne-on, your routine sounds awesome. :D
anon
agree and there are others that will be challenged to adapt….I was thinking about the Brazilian steakhouse restaurants…multiple waiters carving meat off of skewers at multiple tables, in front of diners breathing and laughing etc. Not sure how those restaurants will be able to adapt their model
AFT
Gosh, and the gorgeous salad bars! Wow, I can’t imagine they’ll come back any time soon.
Anon
The one near my house has turned into a butcher selling marinated meats.
Anon
OMG I never thought about the breathing diners and those skewers before and wow. You’re right.
Abby
I started using lash serums I have laying around during quarantine bc obviously not getting extensions, and I’m so amazed at the results. I’ve been messing around with mascara and am shocked that I can actually see my lashes, that I may never go back to extensions even if it’s safe…
AnonPara
What lash serums are you using?
Abby
The one rn is Revitalash Advanced eyelash conditioner. I got it as a gift. Once I finish using that up I have half a bottle of rodan and fields to use as well.
Anon
I generally hate MLMs but Rodan+Fields Lash Boost actually does work. I have posted about this before, but I had to start using it less frequently because I grew hair at the top of my cheekbones, I guess where my lashes were hitting under my eyes.
anononon
+1 for lash serums. For a long time i assumed anything non-prescription would be useless, but I got a sample of Grande lash in a subscription box and could not believe how long my lashes got. I’ve used it for a few years now – it’s expensive (though less expensive than other options I think) but each tube lasts me about 6 months (i use every other night) and I get compliments on my lashes all the time. I love that you can now see my (formerly straight, stubby) lashes even without mascara – it may be vain but it helps me feel more confident in my appearance without makeup. Caveat is that I don’t have sensitive skin or eyes, so you might want to be more cautious if you do!
anon
Salons in my area are allowed to open on Saturday, and I have an appointment to get my hair done next week. My stylist has a pod in one of those salon pod arrangements, so she’s in control of her space. She already texted her new policies. She’s limiting the space to one customer at a time–you have to wait in your car and call to make sure it’s safe to come in. She’ll be wearing a mask, and customers have to wear a mask. It feels like a “new normal” standard to me–taking reasonable precautions, but there’s no reason to think it’ll be any safer to get my haircut until there’s a vaccine or cure. Also, DH and I have been seeing the same stylist for 9 years. She’s a friend, and I have enough knowledge of her financial situation to know she needs work, but she’s too proud to accept cash–she won’t even accept a Christmas bonus, even though I offer every year.
My team has started a return to work. Several of the men got “illegal” haircuts in people’s garages. Or paid extra for their barbers to open shop personally for them. Major eye roll.
anne-on
What are the precautions? I’m seeing them range from limiting number of customers to prohibiting blow dryers (which, IMHO makes a TON of sense, but also precludes color). I think someone said it a few days ago – if you’re going to go, do it NOW, before the second wave of cases from re-opening hits.
Of Counsel
Not sure what kind of color you are getting, but (in ordinary times) I get my roots touched up every 4 weeks and blow dry is not necessary. In fact, my stylist offers an option to come in, get your color put on, and then you go home and wash it out yourself.
Cbara
This wash it yourself option sounds like a great compromise that would work for a lot of ppl. I feel like I’m just wasting time sitting there for 45 minutes waiting for it to develop. I would much rather just go home.
Anonymous
I … think the flaw in that logic is that you might become part of the second wave yourself. I’m going to hold off. I don’t mean to criticize people who make the choice to go, but I don’t know if aiming for a certain window is effective or just rationalizing a choice.
Anon
My hair is a mess (relatively short, colored), so as soon as they reopen, to be honest. I’m also low risk and don’t have any family members who I see regularly who are high risk. I also know my hair stylist needs the income.
Anon
Same. As soon as salons in my area reopen and I can get an appointment I am sprinting in the door.
pugsnbourbon
I feel you – I have a full Florence Henderson situation going on in the back. I’m also low-risk, as is my wife, and I’ve been seeing the same stylist for a long time and we have a great relationship. I’m waiting to see what their precautions/requirements are, then I’ll decide.
BB
+1! My hair is really thick and most of my salon time is getting it thinned out and layered. It’s so thick right now that it’s uncomfortable when I sleep. I don’t find salons to be all that risky if they clean properly and the stylist wears masks. Maybe we can skip the hair wash which feels more touchy.
Senior Attorney
I’ve been paying my colorist full price to drop off the color at my house, and I plan to continue that (I will pick it up curbside when the salon opens) for a good long time. I could do at least another six months without a cut, I think.
BeenThatGuy
My stylist did the exact same thing for me this weekend. I paid full price and tipped her double. She even provided gloves, shampoo, conditioner, color block, written instructions, etc.
Anonymous
I’m friends with my stylist and she offered to come do my hair in my backyard. I’m not sure if I’m going to do it or not, but I do like the idea of being outside as much as possible. I read something today that most infections have been traced to the indoors with people in closed spaces with lots of talking, so being outside (hopefully on a day without too much wind) seems really appealing to me.
I thought this was an interesting article, pasting the relevant section below and then a link:
“The reason to highlight these different outbreaks is to show you the commonality of outbreaks of COVID-19. All these infection events were indoors, with people closely-spaced, with lots of talking, singing, or yelling. The main sources for infection are home, workplace, public transport, social gatherings, and restaurants. This accounts for 90% of all transmission events. In contrast, outbreaks spread from shopping appear to be responsible for a small percentage of traced infections. (Ref)
Importantly, of the countries performing contact tracing properly, only a single outbreak has been reported from an outdoor environment (less than 0.3% of traced infections). (ref)”
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
Anonymous
I read that article and every linked thing in it over the weekend and really found that it made sense in a very non-alarmist way — what are reasonable precautions? where is the risk?
Anonymous
That piece freaked me out even more about returning to work.
I think I would feel safe getting a haircut outdoors with both me and my stylist wearing N95 masks. I don’t see that actually happening. I have ordered shears, thinning shears, and a styling razor and have been watching a lot of YouTube videos about cutting a texturized pixie. Unfortunately, the videos make it look pretty much impossible and they all show the stylist cutting someone else’s hair. I may end up with a buzz cut.
Anonymous
Does this mean social distancing happy hours are semi-ok?
Anonymous
In our state, we are allowed to gather in groups of <=10 people. It is warm enough to be outside. I have done it with friends and it feels right and doesn't make me nervous at all.
Taking a bus ride . . . nope nope nope.
Anonymous
I went to the dentist today (they were close to Walter White level hazmat gear, which I totally get). I have a weird tooth issue that I needed xrays for. I would get my hair done on Day 1 but that won’t be for quite a while.
Anonymous
I’ll go as soon as it’s allowed. My stylist just opened her own salon and works out of her own individual space. She sees one person at a time. I’m pretty incensed for her that she’s not allowed to open, actually. Gatherings of 10 are allowed but 2 people in a good sized room with masks on is not allowed? I don’t think these restrictions are very well thought out at all.
Anon
Agreed! Salons (nail & hair) with masks seem like one of the lowest risk activities to me, compared to a lot of what’s allowed. I get it’s not “essential”, but these are real people who need real income.
LaurenB
The NYTimes article of a few days ago suggests otherwise – that it has to do with the amount of touching x length of time spent. Salons and nail spas were among the worst “offenders.” By contrast, a few people gathered outdoors in a front yard maintaining plenty of social distance from one another was not as risky IIRC.
Anonymous
Yes but based on no actual data. They concluded it was places with people in close proximity and long stays. But not that any outbreaks were seen and didn’t address using masks.
JB
That article was all conjecture. They didn’t base the risk off known cases of spread. I wouldn’t even call it reporting, it was inventing correlation with graphs. And from my favorite news source.
Anon
You can have a 10 person gathering without touching. Can she cut your hair without touching your head? It’s nice that everyone is besties with their stylists but come on, these are the last businesses that should open. Deal with however your hair looks.
Anon
if i lived in a state where customers were also required to wear masks, i’d consider going. but where i live they are not required for customers.
anononon
So can’t you just wear one?
Anonymous
Fabric masks don’t really protect the wearer. Their main purpose is to protect others.
Anon
My state requires them for customers but I’m not fully understanding how she will cut my hair with the mask on. I feel like the two straps will be in the way and prevent her from combing/cutting.
Anonymous
Some masks have small elastic loops that go around the ears rather than over your whole head … maybe you could find one in that style for your appointment? (Unless you also mean that style won’t work)
Anon
Good thinking. I can make an ear loop style one with a scarf and hair elastics.
Anonymous
Would a neck gaiter interfere less? Or maybe remove the straps and hold it for a few minutes?
AFT
In the Chicago area, so salons aren’t open yet and we don’t know when they will (likely sometime after June 1st, maybe in July)… I made an appt for late June at an off time (late weekday evening) & I may move it if things haven’t improved as anticipated. I go to a very corporate and high end salon in the suburbs so anticipate that they’ll be masking, I’ll be masking, and hard core safety procedures will be in place before reopening. If not, I’ll delay.
anon
I stopped paying for dissatisfying haircuts in 2013. Just gave myself a haircut yesterday. But my career has no dress code.
Anon
For people desperate for a haircut, I suggest you try going for it yourself. Just cut it an inch or so longer than you really want it so you have room to go shorter when it is fixed. I cut 8 inches off of mine and I LOVE it. It is not perfect and one side is longer than the other but it feels great to have it done. It was also kind of exhilarating in a survivalist kind of way. I used my home office scissors which was actually quite difficult. I recommend getting real hair cutting scissors.
Housecounsel
That sounds cathartic and fun, actually.
Betsy
I don’t see myself going to a salon until I can safely hug my mom, but I have straight, uncolored hair so that’s a pretty easy position for me to take. Personally I think salons are probably opening too early for the level of contact involved. For what it’s worth, a friend of mine who owns a salon originally planned to open next week when our state allows, but after doing her research determined she wasn’t comfortable with the level of risk and is waiting. I’m glad she made that decision, but sorry that others may feel they don’t have a choice because of finances.
Anon
This is a great point and puts it in perspective for me. I haven’t seen my elderly parents since this started and my dad has high risk medical conditions. I’d rather see them then get a hair cut. I’m the one that gave myself my own haircut that’s uneven but I don’t really care that much!
Small Law Partner
I’ll likely go as soon as they open. I was due for a cut in late March, and have a pixie cut so now I have a mullet. Also have a trial scheduled for June, and whether or not that happens in person or by video, I would really like my hair cut.
MagicUnicorn
Fellow pixie mulleteer here.
I have been using my husband’s clippers to get rid of my mullet every 3 weeks or so. It actually works pretty well. I use the 6 guard on dry hair and kind of run it straight up from my neckline and flare out halfway up the back of my head, all across my neckline. Repeat with a shorter guard, flaring out a smidge lower. I work down to about a 3 guard, then just use no guard to carefully clean up the neckline shape in the mirror. I’m surprisingly more pleased with the results than I thought I would be.
Anonome
I am making do with boxed color indefinitely. I hate it and it doesn’t cover my grays well, but I have medically frail parents so I refuse to do any frivolous errands. I am hoping to see my dad in person for his birthday in June.
Cooking drama
Non-covid related comment: The Alison Roman/Chrissy Teigan “drama” makes me sad. I’m posting this here because I know people have discussed their love of Alison before. Her apology reads, in part “Being a woman who takes down other women is absolutely not my thing and don’t think it’s yours, either.” Yeah, but if it’s not your thing, why are you doing it to two different women in one interview? You only get to claim “it’s not my thing” if it’s…actually not your thing…
She just reads as a mean girl to me. Thoughts?
Anon
I was hoping someone would bring this up here! Couldn’t believe how Alison acted, starting with the terrible quotes and ending with her weak apology. So disappointing. She comes off as immature, mean, and casually racist.
Anonymous
I have no time for Alison Roman. I don’t like her recipes, and I find her smug and off-putting in interviews. I had no idea that she was in a drama with Chrissy Teigen because I have no time for her either, or for Twitter feuds.
Anonymous
Agreed. Initially I thought maybe her comments were blown out of proportion but her follow ups are all also bad.
Anon
They were also pretty terrible to begin with.
Anonymous
Yeah sorry that wasn’t clear- I meant initially I just saw a headline and thought maybe her comments were blown out of proportion but then I read them and a) they were not and b) her apology was terrible.
Anon
She’s definitely a mean girl, but the worst part to me is that she singled out two women of Asian heritage and no one else. There are TONS of men and white women in the culinary industry who are more well known and who have stuck their name on cookware lines (Bobby Flay, Rachael Ray, Giada, etc) so to single out Chrissy and Marie Kondo (who isn’t even in the same industry) just seemed like a bizarrely racist choice.
Senior Attorney
Yup. And then I read another article about how a lot of her food is colonized Asian food and it made me even madder.
Anonymous
The “colonized Asian food” thing is a bit much. The article linked in the OP says that Roman has been accused of being a racist for calling a curry a “stew,” but then if you call a dish a “curry” you get in trouble too. Roman should be explaining the influences on her dishes and not claiming authenticity for anything she’s adapted, but is it really only okay for white people to cook dry meat and unseasoned potatoes? Why is it all right for Marcus Samuelsson to be influenced by cuisines from all over the world, including places where he’s never lived, but not a white woman? I don’t want to go back to eating the bland garbage food that white Americans ate in the U.S. in the 1970s and 1980s, but I don’t have the time and resources to practice 100% authentic cooking either, and I’d probably get accused of cultural appropriation if I tried it.
The real problem is the racist joke, not the food.
Anon
THANK YOU.
America is at its best when we integrate cultures and appreciate what people of different backgrounds add to our country. I don’t think that the “misappropriation of food” people actually want the logical end of their crusade, which is a further fracturing of our society.
Senior Attorney
That’s the point. It’s great to cook it and she should be explaining the influences and not trash-talking Asian women on Twitter. For Pete’s sake it’s not that hard to give credit where it’s due.
Anon
She said in one interview that she’s of European descent so she “doesn’t have a culture” . . . how completely ignorant do you have to be in 2020 to think your background is neutral.
Anonymous
For a white woman to say she “doesn’t have a culture,” it means she was raised to believe that white Americans who are not from minority religious traditions do not, in fact, have a culture and are therefore less than members of other groups. This is the message that was drilled into me as a white kid in schools with racial quotas (>70% minority required) in Los Angeles in the 1980s. Everybody but me was celebrated for being special. I remember that when my Girl Scout leader asked us to describe our family’s holiday traditions, I said we didn’t have any, because I thought that white Christians from the United States weren’t allowed to have traditions. Traditions were a special thing reserved for non-white and/or non-Christian Americans, as well as residents of other countries. It may not be correct, and it may be offensive, but that’s how white people who attend public school in big cities are taught to think. It means she has been taught to believe she’s generic and culturally inferior.
AnonNYC
As a fellow white lady raised in the late 80s amongst a whole lot of focus on celebrating the traditions of my non-white-Christian classmates, I’d gently push back on the idea that celebrating other colors meant in any way that white-Christians were “less than”, but rather that it was still rooted in the idea that white-Christian was “normal” and any deviations were “other.” (Especially if your school also had Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Easter, St. Patrick’s Day, Christmas, etc.!) I think your views are definitely not the norm amongst any of the big city public school white ladies of my acquaintance, and if you took celebration of diversity to mean that you are ‘culturally inferior’, that’s your own fish to fry.
LittleBigLaw
Or it means she, consciously or not, assumes whiteness is the default from which all other groups deviate to varying degrees. It’s a perspective that centers the white experience in all things as the expected, even boring, norm and allows her to approach other cultures as a tourist.
LaurenB
I wish we wouldn’t talk about “the white experience,” though, like it’s one monolithic thing. I assure you the “white experience” my cousins had growing up in Alabama with guns, God, ma’am / sir, “Catholics-aren’t-Christians”, “the South shall rise again,” the gays are out to getcha, and college as a conduit to play football is nothing like the “white experience” I had growing up in a major northeast city, and attending a highly-ranked university known for academics, not sports. We have absolutely nothing in common culturally and I’m tired of being lumped in as part of a mass group of “white.” It’s as stupid as talking about “European culture” or “Asian culture.”
Anon
I was curious so I read the interview and didn’t think her comments were that bad, I think she just didn’t really think the PR side through and was giving a candid interview. Chrissy Teigen’s business model involves Twitter drama.
real quote
You don’t think her quote about Marie Kondo “‘“For the low, low price of $19.99, please to buy my cutting board!'” was a problem? That’s super racist and uncalled for. An Asian ESL speaker. Just, no.
Note: I’ve seen that quote corrected in articles about the interview. In the interview itself, that’s how it reads. There’s a whole note at the end about how it was an inside joke, but that’s not the kind of inside joke I’d want to be part of.
Also how can someone claim lack of media training when they write for buzzfeed and the nytimes and have repeatedly gone viral? She IS the media.
Anon
Agree with everything you’re saying.
And, beyond being racist, her choice of words is so extreme and off-putting in general…even the not-as-bad parts. Saying that Chrissy’s instagram account “horrifies me and it’s not something I ever want to do” – really? It just seems like her whole persona has become too based on being brash and opinionated and – I’ll borrow the word of another poster – smug. But that’s not a personality that works in real life, and it’s not really working for her in the media world anymore either.
Housecounsel
That was the line that put me over the edge, too. She claims she wasn’t being racist and was quoting some book or something. I am not buying it.
Anonymous
… and the book title she was supposedly quoting was still racist, just in a different way.
Anon
If you’re calling another professional’s work “horrifying” and you’re not in the Mafia, you’re probably doing a lot wrong in your own life.
Anon
Chrissy Teigen had nothing to do with this, though. She’s been supportive of Alison Roman in the past, it’s not like she started this.
Anon
Whether Alison realizes it or not, she is racist. And if you didn’t see any problems with her interview, you might be too. You may also want to do some soul searching around why you’re blaming Chrissy for attracting drama despite Alison going out of her way to start this mess without any provocation.
Anon
Read to find out what this was all about and saw this line in the Guardian: “Roman has also done paid partnerships with brands like J Crew and Madewell so it’s not exactly like she has turned her back on capitalism. But, to be fair, in Roman’s mind, what she’s doing is probably a different, more palatable, sort of capitalism. It’s artisanal Brooklyn capitalism.”
Anon
Artisinal Brooklyn Capitalism is something I just now realized needed a name. Love it.
Abby
Someone replied to her “apology” with a tweet that called her out, saying she had discussed on a different podcast how annoying she thought Chrissy Teigan was. I feel for Chrissy because she shared that Alison’s comments about her made her sad, that she wanted something of her own that John didn’t buy her, and that was her cookbook/cooking line. I also didn’t love Alison’s comments about Marie Kondo. Why insult others when it’s an interview about YOU?? Asking for drama.
ugh
Also the language she used about Marie Kondo! Totally casually racist and I haven’t seen that widely requoted. If she hadn’t taken on Chrissy Teigan that would have been a huge story in and of itself. And she hasn’t apologized to Marie! Just Chrissy, who called her out!
I wrote to complain to nytimes cooking. I realize it’s a paper so there’s probably free speech elements but I think this needs to be addressed by her biggest platform.
It made me really angry, for WOC and for white women who do not talk like this! She’s basically everything wrong with our society today to me right now… i think maybe I’m extra angry because I liked her recipes.
Anonymous
I think she only “apologized” to Chrissy after she realized that Chrissy was an executive producer for her upcoming show on Hulu
Anonymous
There are no free speech elements what are you talking about? The government can’t order the NYTimes to stop publishing her. As her employer they can certainly decide to fire her.
LaurenB
” I realize it’s a paper so there’s probably free speech elements but I think this needs to be addressed by her biggest platform.”
Huh? How is there a free speech element? The NYTimes is free to hire / fire any food writer of their choice at any time. They are not obligated to give her a platform. And the government has nothing to do with any of this. This is not the level of understanding of free speech that I expect to see on Corporette.
buzzkill
Agree, Alison Roman came after Teigan and Marie Kondo for no apparent reason. I didn’t really like her anyway and now I def don’t
ugh
I also hated the part where she said “…don’t think it’s yours, either,” putting some blame back on Chrissy by implying that Chrissy made demeaning comments on par with hers which was absolutely not the case. Chrissy posted a reaction/defense that was nowhere near the unprovoked attack that Alison did in the interview in the first place. That, and focusing on herself as the victim in her first reaction tweet (something like “wishing I had someone to hold my hand in baby’s first internet backlash”) was so eye-rollingly, obnoxiously self-absorbed and oblivious.
Anon
Oh my god, her response made the whole thing so much worse! No accountability whatsoever, she’s such a narcissist.
Anon
Yes I have been following this. I think Allison Roman was trying to be edgy and “real” and instead it just exposed the real her, which is ugly. It certainly changed my opinion of her.
I thought Chrissy Teigen’s reaction was honest and vulnerable (she shares a lot of herself on social media so it’s not surprising that she would share this) but the fact that she got support day one and then a huge backlash day two, so much so that she had to take a “break”, says so much about Internet culture. And we have our own little version of that around here, looking at you anonymous snarkers who stalk named posters.
Anon
“And we have our own little version of that around here, looking at you anonymous snarkers who stalk named posters.”
LOL, says Anon
Anon
Why do you think I’m Anon now?
Anon
I was super bummed to read that interview but not really that surprised. She’s never seemed like a likable person to me. Also, I don’t think #TheStew was all that good.
Horse Crazy
I’m definitely disappointed in Alison. I just bought a bunch of new cookbooks recently, including hers, and now I’m bummed I did.
FormerlyPhilly
Honestly, I was so bored by the feud.
Really I’m more interested in knowing how Alison Roman’s gastrointestinal system can withstand all of those ingredients. Every time I see one of her recipes, I wonder if/why I’m the only one who wouldn’t be able to tolerate all of that stuff in one dish.
Anon
You mean seasoning? Yeah, most people can handle it.
Anonymous
Petty gripe of our confinement: parking on my street has become annoying. Everyone has a garage and a driveway. There is also street parking; most people park on the street across from their own driveway. My neighbor has decided to park on the street across from my driveway and never across from their own. I assume this is because it’s tight to get in and out of the driveway when there’s a car right across from it. So instead of inconveniencing themselves with their own car they inconvenience us. BF has a big truck that he used to park in the driveway (before anyone give me grief – he needs it for work); if there’s a car opposite the driveway then he can’t get out unless he drives on the lawn and over the curb or takes like 20 minutes to inch back and forth. So, he’s been parking on the street across from the driveway So he can get out reasonably. The neighbor will park right on his bumper (BF just leaves plenty of space in front of the truck), and will take the spot The minute BF moves his truck. Neighbor’s cars are small fwiw. Basically, we have a passive aggressive fight going on about the spot directly across from my driveway.
I know I can’t say anything because technically the street parking is for everyone, it’s not really MY spot. And I don’t want to create bad feelings with them. But I’m going to complain anonymously on the internet and harumph at them from my home office.
Anon
When I was growing up, the college student in the house across the street insisted on parking directly across from our driveway. These are half-acre lots, so there’s plenty of street parking (and driveway parking) that does not involve right across the street from the driveway. My family kept asking her to park her car somewhere else… and kept asking her to park somewhere else… and then one day, one of our guests came out of our driveway a bit too fast and T-boned her car. Funny thing is, once the car got fixed, it got parked elsewhere.
Anonymous
I hate this too. Our neighbors all have two-car garages plus driveways, but we are literally the only people on the block who do not park all of our cars in the street. Garages and driveways are apparently entertaining spaces, not places to park a car. The people across the street from us have five cars, all parked on the street. It makes it difficult to back out of my driveway, and the kids who roam the neighborhood unsupervised starting the moment they learn to walk like to dart out from between the parked cars. It is a dangerous situation.
Anon
Just ask them. Explain about your husband’s work truck. It’s worth checking as to whether they are good neighbors enough to consider your needs. It could be that they never thought about it.
Anonymous
+1 seriously.
Anon
As long as you do it *nicely* and don’t act like you are entitled to the spot. (And I don’t think that OP would, given how considerate her initial post is. But lots of other people would.)
Anonymous
My former neighbor was a SAHM who also had a nanny. I know. This is in a 2000 sq ft house neighborhood, so not a Richie-Rich place. At any rate, when her nanny had the day off, she’d get a sitter for the day. Neighbor had a driveway and at least 1 car’s worth of space in front of her house (and a hydrant). My house has no hydrant, so 2 spaces in theory. Except that the sitter and the nanny would take the middle of the two spots for one car (leaving .5 of a space on either side, basically useless). Was there a household manual on this? I worked and my spouse worked, so this would be when we were gone unless we got home early (sick kid, dr appt, etc.), in which case we were SOL until the nanny/sitter had left. Husband and I still are bewildered by the whole thing.
Anon
That’s really unthinking and not what people should be doing, but some people who completely s8ck at parallel parking think that is one big space just for their own inability to parallel park, not two spaces for adults who know how to operate their vehicles.
Now, this isn’t what you say to them. What you say is “Hi, I noticed that your sitter/nanny parks in front of our house. We’re able to fit two cars in and we need to park one of our cars there when we get home from work. Would you all be able to park at the front or the back of the space so that we can fit in, too?”
Anon
Park across from their driveway. Maybe they’ll get the hint.
anon a mouse
I feel for you! We have a similar driveway configuration and I hate it when people park opposite — it makes it unusually challenging to get out due to a utility pole on one side of the driveway and a narrow street. Our problem was solved when I accidentally (really) nicked the neighbor’s car, but I don’t recommend that option. It was very expensive for me, but they don’t park there anymore.
NOLA
My neighbors asked where my car was the other day and it was just down the block from *my* space. They were commenting about how now that everyone is home, we’re all competing for parking. I generally park in the same space all of the time (just to the side of my front porch since I live on a corner) but lately, if I leave, my space made be taken. I have had so many tests and medical appointments lately that I’ve been leaving a lot!
Anonymous
He could always park his truck across the street next to their driveway … how could the neighbors complain about it since they set the standard? But hopefully they wouldn’t damage the truck if they really can’t navigate their driveway.
Anonymous
I’d like to buy a pair of diamond studs for myself to celebrate a big promotion (made partner). I’ve never bought diamonds before. Is this something I can do online? Recommendations for a good retailer?
anon
I have no recommendations but congratulations!!
OP
Thank you!
Anon
A lot of people like Blue Nile. My sister when she made VP did the same, picked out what she wanted on Blue Nile and had the price in her back pocket. Then she went to a local jeweler people recommended to her (not a chain retailer) to check out what they had. She ended up buying there and was glad she did – they got the price near enough to the online price, and she was able to pick out the earrings herself, which was a big part of the experience for her.
Anonymous
Thanks, great suggestion.
I meant to put this in the original – how much would folks expect to spend on something like this? I know the price of diamonds varies hugely but does anyone have a gut feeling of – it should be about $X?
Anonymous
Getting a sense of prices is exactly what I use Blue Nile for.
anonchicago
My husband bought me 1.5CT TW diamond studs for my birthday last year. 0.75 CT ea, platinum backing, and I know the cost because he wanted me to verify they were exactly what I wanted before he purchased. Approx $2,100, I know he got some deal but not sure exactly what.
We bought them and our wedding rings from Dimend Scaasi. They’re in Chicago but have online sales and I’ve found them to be competitive with Blue Nile, plus you’re supporting a local business!
Never too many shoes...
Blue Nile has some good intro information about diamonds so you can get a sense of what you want in terms of size, shape and clarity. Then, ask around some women that you know that like jewellery – they almost always have a recommendation or “a guy” where you can get a good deal. Do not go to Tiffany or similar unless you want to spend double what you are getting.
Anon
This is definitely something I would encourage you to buy locally. A local jeweler will make this a much more special and individualized purchase for you, and they will appreciate your business far more than an online retailer or chain store. The price is often better, too.
Charmed Girl
Congrats! I did a similar thing where I bought some studs for myself to celebrate earning my CFA. I ended up going the Blue Nile route, but did the pick my diamonds route. So I could choose size, color, etc. as I was comfortable. They also have a good return policy if they turn out to be not what you were expecting. I did also price at a local jeweler and would have been thrilled to purchase through them if they were competitive, but they weren’t.
Anonymous
Congrats! Please consider buying ethically-mined diamonds. The jewelry mining industry has some pretty horrifying human rights abuses. A good jeweler will be able to tell you the provenance of the diamonds you are looking at.
American Girl
Try Vrai & Oro for online. I am not a fan of Blue Nile personally — I just don’t see the quality/price ratio is quite there.
LaurenB
Bought diamond studs for my daughter for her 16th birthday using Blue Nile; was very pleased with the transaction and quality.
cottage cheese?
Okay this is a weird and possibly gross question. I had an unopened plastic container of milk that went bad a couple weeks ago…in the container it separated into yellow liquid and cottage cheese-like solids. It doesn’t smell bad like sour milk, just kind of buttery. Is this something I could actually eat or make into something I can eat? Or something vile I need to pour down the drain?
Anonymous
Girl no that is rotten milk throw it away
bellatrix
I was just doing similar research, actually – I use slightly sour milk to make biscuits but the separated/curdled milk seemed too far gone. Everything seemed to indicate that you can bake with sour milk, but once it curdles, you shouldn’t risk it.
Never too many shoes...
This is, in fact, a weird and quite gross question that I think you know the answer to already. DO NOT EAT THAT. Garbage! (Note, say it with a French accent for emphasis – like garBAHJ).
anon
I’m usually pretty adventurous with these things, and if you’re not to squeamish, you can just taste a small teaspoon of it. I would expect though that it tastes kind of bitter, which is how my milk usually ends up going bad. I think the notion of milk going sour is from before current pasteurizing methods were used. Now it goes bad in a different way.
Lucille Two
I am wondering why you would even consider this and I am not trying to be mean. Does it seem appetizing? Are you just a curious foodie? Or are you worried about wasting food, especially now? If it’s worry about waste or environmental concern, I’d say I fear you are taking it too far.
Anonymous
yes just not wanting to waste food given limited access, and also curiosity. Thanks all, figured that was the answer…
Anon
I was taught that raw milk sometimes cultures into edible things such as cheeses, but pasteurized milk just spoils. It’s interesting that it doesn’t smell bad though, and I also would be tempted if I had someone in person to ask about it whether it was still some kind of food.
Anonymous
I don’t know the answer but I do know that my Russian MIL purposely lets milk go super bad and then uses it to make cottage cheese, but I don’t know the whole process…
Ses
I don’t think it’s weird or gross! I had milk going off and getting thick, and I was curious if I could do something with it as well. I experimented a bit and tried some (it’s unlikely to poison you if it smells okay and is just pure milk) and it just did not come out good-tasting, so I chucked it.
If it doesn’t smell horrible, it’s probably not actually spoiled. Maybe you do have something similar to cottage cheese on your hands. You normally would have to introduce heat and acid to make that happen, so not sure how it happened in your fridge without just spoiling.
The only difference would be that you warm it and throw a little vinegar in to make cottage cheese.
https://www.allotment-garden.org/recipe/home-dairy/cheese-making/make-curd-cheese-home/
Anon
Hah! I wonder if you could bathe in it. Like Cleopatra (but spoiled milk).
Anon
Cheese would have a specific lactic acid bacteria culture added to milk I think. Milk from your fridge is a wild card, who knows what is in there. Probably nothing good.
Lockdown drama
Like the twitter feud above, I find myself strangely on #TeamCutler in the whole divorce thing. IDK why really. I don’t know these people. It just seems so petty that someone’s PR team puts stories out there to the point where I run across them on a sanity break. My default must be if I see things from one “side,” I go to TeamOtherSide.
Anonymous
Bears fan here. I will never be on #TeamCutler. ;)
anon
Kristin has a well-documented history of being a boyfriend-stealing mean girl. If Jay is indeed hooking up with Kelly, it feels like karma catching up with her. I feel sorry for the kiddos though.
Anon
Really? Didn’t LC actually steal her BF on Laguna Beach? I’m not aKristin fan (she’s anti vax and I believe supported Trump) but I’m still scratching my head over how Lauren got the good girl edit on that show when Stephen was Kristin’s BF first.
anon
I was referring to Hills-era Kristin & the Brody Jenner stuff. I totally forgot about Stephen! And I may even have gotten the Hills stuff wrong but in any case, I don’t find it easy to root for her.
Honda CR-V Hybrid
Has anyone purchased the new Honda CR-V Hybrid? We need a new car and are trying to decide between a 2017/2018 Honda CR-V and the new 2020 CR-V Hybrid.
NOLA
Okay, I know that this is completely silly but I am so excited about the fact that, when I ran by my office this afternoon, I found a USB webcam! It was thrown on top of my over desk storage bins and was one that I had bought for home then replaced at the office. It works! It’s one of those little Logitech models that used to cost $27 and now costs over $100 if you can even get one. I have two laptops at home – one that is my work laptop and works fine for Zoom but it’s teeny tiny and hard to type on and then my older bigger home laptop. IT evaluated my personal laptop last week and determined that the internal webcam had failed, but now I have one! Wooooohooooo!
Anon
Sweet!
The Frenchie is my favorite kid
Late in the day but PSA: You can turn your cell phone into a webcam. Just google apps and pick one :) Our local news did a feature on this and I filed it away in case my webcam gives out.