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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This neutral short-sleeved dress is practically perfect. I love the tailoring and herringbone-textured fabric, and while I know opinions differ on exposed zippers, I don’t particularly mind them. I also like the sleeve length — you can take a jacket off and still feel like you’re somewhat covered. Nordstrom doesn’t carry the matching jacket, but if you want to turn this into a full suit, I’m pretty sure this is it.
The dress is $222, marked down from $495, and it comes in sizes 0–18. Dijersa Herringbone Texture Sheath Dress
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Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
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This is a lovely dress
This is a lovely dress. I’m all about size inclusiveness, but that usually means on another model. I’d love to see it on a non-model (like someone who is 5-4, maybe an 8-10, possibly in her 40s). I LOVE how rent-the-runway does this and think that most people look amazing in their party wear. I wish it were done more for office-wear. I always think that if the picture on a 5-8+ model who is maybe a 4 looks OK, the proportions will be all wrong on me — her waist is not where my waist is, regardless of size issues. I am also not 20. Can we show office clothes on office workers?
not a model
Yes I agree! Some brands (American Eagle comes to mind, maybe Madewell) have started doing this on their sites and it makes online shopping so much easier.
The Beagle Has Landed
This. I’m an inverted triangle, size 6-8 on the bottom and 10-12 on top. I don’t look like the model, but I would love to see clothes like this sheath on different body shapes, including asymmetrical ones.
Anon
I will say though coming from the other direction, I was recently shopping on a website that only had plus models (not even a flat lay) to display the clothing and it was difficult to discern some of the attributes of the construction of the garment and thus I opted not to purchase.
anon
Some of us office workers are 5’8″ and a size 4. You’re right that we’re not 20 though :)
Anonymous
This. I was with OP until the last line. I’m a tall size 10 in my mid 40s so I get the desire for more size diversity but I was a size 4 office worker for most of 25-35. It’s possible to call for more diversity without being rude about the people currently represented.
Anonymous
Even if you are tall, if you are model proportioned and in your 20s, you probably realize you’re a total outlier. And if the waist/inseam/rise on your garments works for you, it won’t work for 85% of women and it’s not a matter of hemming?
Anonymous
Right – I’m not objecting to use of different models. I’m objecting to OP saying that women who are 5’8 and size 4 are not real office workers. Analogous to the ‘real women have curves’ garbage. All women are real women even if they are thin. We can celebrate all body types instead of just changing which type of body we are being negative about.
Anonymous
+1 to Anon at 10:48
All women’s bodies are real, valuable and should be represented. Let’s not trade one bad thing for a different bad thing.
Small Law Partner
@Anon at 11:21: Yes, exactly. I’m a forty-something lawyer. I am still a woman and an “office worker” even though I am a size 0-2. As are all other women in my firm regardless of their size. This nonsense that someone who is 5’8″ and a size 4 cannot possibly be a real office worker is just thinly veiled skinny shaming or insecurity.
Anon
Before I got pregnant, I was 5’8 and a size 4. I’ve also had women be downright rude to me about my body and it’s not okay.
Oh so anon.
Agree 100%. I’m in my late 30s, 5’8″, and a size 0 – 2. I exist in this body. It is no less real or less valid than any other.
Anonymous
I’m so with you – people already post reviews, why not let them post pictures like rtr? I cannot fathom why this isn’t common practice among retailers. They would sell more! And probably have fewer returns!
Worried
I like that banana republic shows some items on a size 14 model. I’m usually a 12 or 14 and even though my body shape is nothing like the models ( I have a smaller frame and am an extreme hourglass— so my bust is larger, but shoulders and waist smaller), it does give me more information. In a magical world, it would be great if retailers would gift a whole size range of a basic item to a random and diverse group of women in return for posting an image of how an item fits. This could be used as a reference for sizing across a category, such as a fitted top or tailored pants.
Anon
I totally agree. Especially in petite clothes. It grinds my gears that I almost never see larger petite models. I get that tall plus size models might look more appealing to photographers because their weight tends to be distributed all over/up and down rather than wide, but a lot of us plus petite girls don’t look like that and the assumption that someone 5’3 is also 100 pounds or small framed as are most of the petite models is infuriating.
Some of us have normal sized body frames on a short stature Bob the Photographer!
Worried
I’m sure there are lots of these around Instagram and such, but in the past I recall seeing an actual magazine spread of ten to fourteen women who were all a size 12, and then another photo of ten or more women who were a size 4, and size 18 and so on. It was amazing to see how good they all looked in the same jeans or dress and how they had styled the identical item different ways in different sizes.
anonchicago
J. Crew does this for some items now. It’s really helpful when knowing how something will look, and in a weird way soothes my body dysmorphia (oh, she doesn’t look fat in that and she’s my size).
Anonymous
What I find most helpful is not to complain about every picture that does not have me in it, but rather to ask this group how that brand fits. Most business clothing is cut consistently, so it’s easy to figure out which brands are non-starters and which brands I should try, based on the feedback here.
Anon
Given Covid spikes in some states, would you still plan on taking a vacation at the end of August to a rural lake house in Minnesota? Would you do it if you were pregnant? We’ve had this vacation planned since pre-pregnancy. It will be a road trip. We would be coming up from So. Illinois and avoiding big cities like Chicago and Minneapolis. I will be around 4.5 months at that point.
My husband says we probably shouldn’t go and I think that’s the right call. I’m trying to look at this clearly and rationally but I’m having a hard time because I’m sad about possibly canceling and knowing it will be a long time before I get another vacation and then seeing everyone around me who are just done with Covid and appear to be resuming their lives as normally. It makes me feel like I’m being overly cautious for canceling.
Anonymous
I am being incredibly cautious, and I am still considering a road trip to a beach house. We would bring food for the drive, a camping toilet, and disposable gloves for pumping gas. We would make sure the house had been unoccupied for several days before our arrival. We would do curbside grocery pickup and then just stay at the house and on the beach.
Anonymous
1. How long of a drive is that?
2. Any likelihood of a 2-week quarantine imposed on you at either end?
3. Are you in a hotspot now? I think if not in a hotspot now, you’re probably net neutral for a short car trip (I didn’t pee hourly until past 4.5 months). But it may be a long car trip with many stops for you, possibly an overnight if my geography is right.
I’d go, but my city may be riskier than a remote lake house, so I see that as a flight from risk if the trip is short and stops are few.
Anonymous
Yeah we probably would have to stay overnight. It’s a 12 hour drive. I’ll look more into what MN regulations are regarding quarantining new visitors. Thanks.
Diana Barry
I would try to get up super early and do it all in one day. Wear a skirt so you can go to the bathroom on the side of the road instead of going inside places (this is what I’m planning for our road trip later this summer).
Anonymous
Yuck, we don’t want to see this
Cat
yeah, I’m one for reasonable precautions, but literally squatting on the side of the road – danger from nearby traffic, general grossness, and heaven forbid you need to go #2! – is not something I see as commensurate with the risk of stopping at a rest area and going inside for 5 minutes to use the bathroom. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer when back outside, done.
Anonymous
I’d go unless things get worse.
Anonymous
I’d drive 2-4 hours to a family or friend’s cottage/lake house and take food etc with me and not go out much once there. Anything else is just going to be more stress than it’s worth. Esp. given the recent concerns about covid impact on the placenta quality in the third trimester.
Anonymous
I would go, as I see little difference between distancing / masking, etc. at home versus doing so at a lake house.
I’m not sure is “Covid spike” is meaningful here — is the area you’re driving to or through one where cases are running rampant, or you’re concerned that they will be doing so a couple months from now?
Anonymous
Yes of course why not? I’d probably stick to cooking in the house and take out but COVID isn’t just in the air around your rural rental.
Cat
I’d go. We have two domestic trips planned for this summer and are going on both unless states re-impose bans on rentals. Given all the information about how this virus is spread materially by human-human contact, a small increase in contact seems worth the small increase in risk to us, for the following reasons-
-It’s a flight for both, but then a house to ourselves once there (enabling limited grocery shopping + takeout for dining); with enhanced cleaning on planes and good filtration, we’re comfortable taking that risk vs. a driving trip requiring many rest stops.
-We are city dwellers so have no private outdoor space of our own – mental health benefits of traveling are not to be dismissed
-We ourselves doubt we are a risk to others as we’ve been staying home since March, wearing masks in stores during limited shopping runs (along with most other people), and not having people over at our house
-We are healthy and low risk; if somehow we catch it during travel, we aren’t at risk of exposing high risk people once home
-If the state bans short term visitors, we’ll be able to cancel and get our money back (or at a minimum, airline vouchers if the flights are still running)
-If we’re required to stay home once returning, we’re both WFH anyway so it doesn’t matter to us
So – beach houses, here we come.
Anonymous
I would go. Your only real risk of exposure is at bathroom stops on the way and grocery shopping when you get there, right? That seems low risk to me. The grocery risk you are going to have at home unless you can do delivery. You could do drive through food or pack you own food. I’m in NYC.
Anon
I’m going to my rural cabin. If you’re driving up there and just hanging out at a cabin or in the woods or lake, it seems unlikely that you’ll really come into much contact with others.
AnonATL
I’d go too. Make sure you are careful during stops. The biggest risk to you is probably bathroom stops. Don’t go out to eat when you are there. Bring your groceries and food for the road if possible.
If the states re-impose restrictions, you can cancel your reservations and likely get your money back.
The risk to you and husband are pretty low just driving and staying in a cabin, particularly in a rural area.
This coming from a 34w pregnant person who spent Memorial day at a family beach house following these same rules (it was an uncrowded beach in a rural area). You can have a safe vacation, and I personally think it’s worth the small risk for a break before you get mega pregnant and the baby comes.
August is still a long way away in pandemic-times, so I would plan to go unless things get really bad.
Leatty
I’m 7 months pregnant, and I would go if I were you. We talked about doing something similar, but are instead spending the money on a much needed home remodel before our baby is born. It seems to me that your risk is relatively low – you are driving, staying in a remote area, and staying in a house (as opposed to a condo). You can further limit your risk by cooking at the cabin instead of dining out and staying away from crowds of people.
Anon
I would also go, but YMMV.
Anon
I’m high risk and I would go, but only if it’s not an insanely long drive necessitating a lot of stops. I would not eat out, would wash hands religiously, and would wear masks anytime I’m even sort of close to anyone else.
Architect
I am in Minneapolis. We also have a long planned vacation to Door County over July 4. That’s in Wisconsin. It’s about a 6-hour drive for us. We thought about cancelling but have decided to go. It will be different but still fun. In general Minnesota has a downward trend of cases. The state still has one county that does not have a confirmed case of covid yet. There is no required quarantine of people coming from out of state. Masks are common in the City. I have not seen this in more rural areas. The state did not see a spike in cases after all the protests. Hopefully the downturn continues. I would still go if I were you. You should be able to stay away from most people. Do note that small rural grocery stores may not have curb side pick up. It still seems doable for your family though.
American Girl
I’m not sure what the risk would be other than stopping at highway rest stops, I suppose. Wear a mask and avoid going in when other people are inside. Or if it really concerns you, go in the woods! Other than that, how is being at a rural lake house materially different than being inside your own home?
Anonymous
The traveling, acquiring food locally, house occupied by others recently, unfamiliar with local health system if it exists at all, etc
Anonymous
Locally-acquired food = unwashed produce that you don’t wash? Freshly self-slaughtered beef? Stuff brought in a western supermarket is super-safe by world standards. I don’t see how a Kroger in Ill is different than a Kroger in Minn.
yes
I would totally go, and I am ultra-conservative and living with a high risk individual.
If you get sick, the disease progresses quite slowly over several days. You just drive home if you are more familiar with the healthcare system there.
You bring food/groceries with you, or have a Costco/local food delivery when you arrive.
You do surface cleaning when you arrive, while of course asking that that be done before you arrive. I would probably re-wash the sheets/towels etc..
I would do it. But I’m not you.
Anonymous
Um, no, if you get sick you do not just drive home (using restrooms, potentially coming in contact with police or tollway workers or whoever else on the way home, etc.). And it isn’t a slow progression for everyone. (That said, I would go–I would just be familiar with access to care.)
Anon
Yeah, sorry I am more liberal on COVID policies than some on here, but agreed you don’t just drive home for the reasons mentioned. We are taking a few 3-4 hour road trips this summer & I have thought about what would happen if we got it there & how we would get home. Honestly I would probably contact an authority figure for guidance. Maybe somehow they could orchestrate dropping off a gas can? for us to make it home without stopping and we agree to only piss in the woods?
Anonymous
Acquiring food locally is no more risky than home and there’s no real risk of surface transmission
AFT
I would consider going, but that seems like a looooong drive, and to me the longer the drive the more risk that you’ll be stressed about exposure along the way. Any opportunity to book somewhere closer instead? I’m guessing family cabin so there may not be. I’d still probably do it but evaluate healthcare options near the rural location, be extremely cautious at any of the stops from point a to point b, and be prepared to cancel on short notice if there’s a spike in the area.
Anon
I am shocked at how almost unanimous the responses are here to go (I was one of them). This never happens. And this board is usually SUPER conservative about this stuff.
So hopefully this helps you feel comfortable!
Anon
We’re taking a road trip in a couple of weeks, but where we’re coming from and where we’re going to aren’t hotspots (cases are falling in both areas). We’re also going to a cabin in a rural area; in our case we may not see another person the entire week. I think if you said you were going to a big city to wander around and you were flying there, I would feel differently, but given what you’ve shared I would feel comfortable going. You can take reasonable precautions (take your own food, mask up, maybe buy some disposable gloves?, etc.) You’re right to be concerned because you are pregnant – it affects your own immune response and there are concerns for fetal health if you get Covid – but I am not sure I think the risks are so extreme it’s worth canceling the trip.
Anon
I have left my house a total of four times since March and we are still taking our vacation trip to a rural cabin in August.
Anonymous
Personally I think its fine. I’m not a doctor but my understanding is the real risk of infection is from sustained person to person interaction, typically 10+ min, and surface contact is really not very risky. Thus traveling, using drive-thrus, public bathrooms, staying in hotels, are actually generally low risk. Staying in a house in a rural area with only members of your household also seems very low risk. Also, for what it’s worth, a rural lake house in Minnesota sounds like HEAVEN to me right now. I would go.
Anonymous
We are at our rural cabin. We brought bags and a cooler of food with us and then self-isolated once we got here to make sure we were ok. Before we left, we checked local hospital capacity and this county and the adjacent counties are doing fine. I would only cancel if your area has a lot of cases and you are not willing to isolate to protect the locals, or if there is not likely to be health services availability when you arrive.
Lake Living Anon
Not in that area, but I live in a town full of rural lake houses, and fully anticipate that our first big wave of covid will come this summer with vacationers as short term rentals open back up. If this is a rental that turns over weekly, keep in mind it’s probably being cleaned by a bored teenager rather than a serious disinfecting professional. I wouldn’t want to move right in 6 hours after the last family left, but YMMV. If it’s your own house that won’t have anyone in it before you and you can pack all your food and other needs so you literally don’t have to contact anyone there, it’s probably pretty low risk. Just keep in mind that two months is a really long time in covid-time and an area that currently has very few infections could be in the midst of a serious outbreak by then.
Anon
I’m having a hard time handling a situation with my mom. Since covid, she has veered far right and is constantly posting conspiracy theories while also appearing to have become a fanatical trump supporter. This was someone who couldn’t stand trump in 2016 and who raised me to be a democrat. To me, the problem is not that she’s a Republican and I’m a democrat. That makes no difference to me. I’ve supported moderate Republicans in the past. It’s the stark difference in values. She recently posted this strange picture of notable democrats painted to look evil and carrying pitchforks and nooses with the caption that this is the real virus that needs to be eradicated (she knows I’m a democrat). She also proudly boasts of not wearing a mask even though her and my step dad are high risk.
It was all infuriating before, but now that I’m about to have a kid, I’m taking it so much more seriously (and personally I guess). Because of some of the things she posts, I am questioning her judgment. Since she’s retired, she spends all her time on Facebook and watching Fox. All her friends share the same views so she’s in an echo chamber. Has anyone else with kids been in a similar situation with close family members? How did you handle it?
Anonymous
let her live.
Anonymous
I turn to the AA words all the time: I can’t control this, so I ignore. You can tell her why she can’t come to the hospital and that is a safety concern (not a fox-news concern). And you don’t need to tell her she’s not your choice of guardian. Focus on the minimum and aim to do less.
small herring
^^^ I can’t control this, so I ignore.
I really like this.
Go for it
Not similar situation at all; however, that sounds beyond disturbing. Personally, I would unfollow her on social media (assuming that is where you saw this stuff).
My family has its own brands of crazy on assorted topics, a number of which are posted on social media. I unfollowed them all, and for me the relief was palpable.
I have also learned to say “we have to agree to disagree on this” and change the topic.
Anonymous
Yes. My retired father is similar. I just ignore him when he talks or emails about politics.
Anonymous
I mean, you took a second break from posting a black square on your instagram and you’re worried about her? Dems/MSM have overplayed their hand on this whole pandemic/race riot fiasco and caused real problems, division of families among them Maybe don’t talk about politics and try to focus on where you have common ground (new baby?). If you were to discuss politics, she would probably have similar bad feelings towards your espoused values. Try to come from a place of compassion or resign yourself to never seeing her again.
Anon
How is this helpful? Who said anything about a black square? Presumably the poster is asking because I’m assuming she plans on involving her mom with her new baby and is worried about some of the things she’s posting and how she’s spending all her free time.
E
It’s a troll comment. Ignore it. They’re just trying to get a rise.
Sloan Sabbith
“Send/MSM” gave it away for me.
Sloan Sabbith
Dems. Goddamnit, autocorrect.
anonshmanon
The people objecting racism are causing division. Lol!
Anonymous
I’d drop my mom like a hot coal If she was a crazed racist trump supporter. I would hope my kids would do the same to me. I have no time for hatefilled people in my life.
Bye Karen.
Anon
Yes my mother in law is like this. She doesn’t post stupid things on social media but otherwise very similar. But she goes to Trump rallies, hates Democrats, etc. I have asked her to not mention President Trump in front of the kids. I don’t want them to learn anything about politics, current event or religion from her. I’m normally a very hands off parent, but this is so serious. There is a lot of disinformation out there. She keeps it light with the kids, we don’t discuss politics, and it’s all copacetic.
Anonymous
Unfriend her. She’s bored and lonely and scared. Stop knowing what she does on line. Deal only with what she does directly with you
Anon
My mom is a Trump supporter. I’ve managed to get through to her somewhat by calmly and factually and POLITELY explaining X or Y that she posts. (And I save my responses for the really egregious stuff – run of the mill stuff gets a pass, otherwise I’d spend my days policing her FB.)
What concerns me more is that you’ve said this has come about so quickly. Does she have IRL friends and activities? Church? Sometimes it’s just so important to get outside and interact with real humans. Fox is so bad about the fear and hysteria and brainwashing. I’d encourage her to get involved outside the home ASAP.
Anon
Sorry not directly related, but I am also just disturbed by how much my retired parents sit and watch the 24/7 news cycle (luckily not all Fox). It is just so unhealthy, and unfortunately seems to be SUCH a thing among retired parents. And then when I talk to them, the level of minutiae they think that I/everyone must know about every single news or political item out there is crazy, & the shock they express when 1/2 the time I have no idea what they are talking about (b/c I don’t watch 24/7 news) is just so hard on both of our ends to relate to. I really hope when I retire I can stay out of that bubble, or whatever unhealthy new thing exists by then.
Sorry, it sounds like your problem is another level. Obvious answer is to block seeing her posts on Facebook.
anonchicago
This. My parents and most retired relatives seem to be the same way. It seems to be a combination of not leaving the house and watching Fox which sensationalizes everything, then they talk to friends who create this echo chamber. It’s infuriating.
There’s not much you can do; you can push back but I haven’t found that helps much and just angers me. I unfollow them on FB and filter them out of seeing any posts of mine that are political (so they only see dog and travel pics), and change the subject or hang up when politics comes up in conversation. Really hope I’m not like this when I’m older, I don’t remember my grandparents being so loony and I credit the Boomers dissociation with reality to social media and Fox.
Anonymous
you’re already like this.
Anon
JFC, it’s an anonymous commenter on the internet, you don’t know what she’s like. So maybe not necessary to make snarky comments just because you’ve decided today is your day to be rude in the comments?
Anon
+1 to this – well put.
AnonATL
My MIL is the same. She’s pretty liberal, but she watches CNN or MSNBC all day and basically just yells about the news constantly. You can be informed about the basics going on in current news without tuning into the 24 hour news. Especially if it’s just going to tick you off.
To the OP, I have crazy conservative family too. I mute/ hide their posts, and we all agree not to talk about politics together. It took a few yelling matches over the holidays, but everyone realizes now it’s for the best. I’m not changing their mind, they aren’t changing mine and clearly we can’t have a philosophical discussion about it like adults.
I do have some family that is conservative, but not Trump conservatives, and I don’t mind chatting with them about politics because it is a philosophical difference on how government should behave. Not some cult-ish conspiratorial thinking.
anon
My mom has always loved conspiracy theories and it has gotten so much worse in her old age. I try to avoid topics that I know will lead to insane rants but it really limits what we can talk about. It’s sad but I’ve accepted that our relationship has to be superficial because our values and beliefs have diverged significantly over the years.
Anon
Obviously, it’s impermissible for family members to have conservative-leaning views, so it’s a situation demanding immediate intervention by people who do not live in an echo chamber (defined as hearing views from all across the spectrum, except anyone to the right of Tulsi Gabbard).
Nope
Grow up. We’re talking about disinformation, racism, calls to violence and conspiracy theories.
anon
Did you even read the post? OP has no problem with conservative-leaning views, the conspiracy theories are the problem. If posting images of political opponents and nooses is acceptable to a certain group of people then they’re trash, no matter which end of the spectrum.
anon
Being an intellectually dishonest conservative isn’t a great way to make your point. Honestly, how can you even read what OP wrote and then come to this conclusion in good faith?
Anon
Not the OP, but my formerly liberal mom’s new found conservative-leaning views are about things like Bill Gates’ plan to control the population with vaccines, Trump’s heroic secret war with international human traffickers, BLM protestors being on George Soros’s payroll as a plot to divide us, masks being worse for you than the virus, and so on.
This all started when she expressed confusion and doubt over the pandemic. From the start, she felt that it didn’t seem right because she’s lived “this long,” and nothing like this lockdown has ever been necessary before (in her lifetime). So she started looking for pandemic skeptics, which led her into antivaxx territory. She already liked chiropractors, and many DC vaccine skeptics started signal boosting other right wing conspiracists when the lockdown began. There is a lot of dog whistling in this direction from conservative talking heads; they know QAnon is listening and play into it. In her mind, she’s doing her own research and finding source after source that agrees. She’s not seeing the astroturfing designed to reach people like her, or even the YouTube algorithms that keep suggesting videos “similar” to the one she just viewed. And “mainstream media,” Snopes, and the academy are all poisoned wells (the last one particularly thanks to “Dr. Shiva” and his campaigns).
anon
…are you my brother? This is way too similar to my own experience. Love that all the “free thinkers” end up spouting off the same talking points.
Anonymous
OP here–this sounds really similar to my mom’s trajectory. I forgot to mention she’s also sharing anti-vax stuff and just so much general misinformation about Covid.
Senior Attorney
Stories like this just blow my mind. I’m probably your mom’s age and honestly I can’t imagine ever in a million years falling for this kind of thing. I mean, did these people never have any critical thinking skills before? I guess not. Good Lord. I’m just speechless.
Anon
That’s the thing; it feels like a complete departure!
Anon
I guess the chiropractors may have been a slippery slope, but I’m thinking the isolation must be a big part of it too.
Curious
I got patted on the head and told to be nicer to my dad when I posted my fears about this a few months ago. Glad to see people are taking it seriously. No solutions here, but bottomless empathy. The decline into conspiracy started when he got a Twitter account and accelerated two years ago.
Anon
Sudden changes in beliefs can be a sign of cognitive decline. I would make sure this isn’t a sign of something serious.
Anon
I am worried about this somewhat. So far I haven’t seen other signs. I also know a lot of people whose parents have suddenly embraced conspiracy theories, so I wonder if they’re really all going through cognitive decline at once? I guess they’re all around the same age. Right now it feels more like a concerted propaganda campaign aimed at relatively out-of-touch Boomers who are being told they can’t do whatever they want. I feel like half my friend network has become a support group for trying to keep our parents safe and sane.
anon
I have suspected for a couple of years now that my conspiracy theorist mother is exhibiting signs of dementia. She’s becoming very forgetful and not speaking as clearly as she used to. Too bad she refuses to see a doctor about it because they all work for the deep state apparently.
Anon
Honestly if my mother turned from a Democrat to a rabid Trump loving Republican in a matter of months I’d actually be concerned about her health. Dramatic changes in personality relatively quickly (and especially increased paranoia) seem to point to a health issue, I’d get her checked out for dementia, depression, stroke, brain tumor, etc.
Sloan Sabbith
Yeah, this seemed strange to me to. Going from “eh kind of conservative, Trump isn’t that bad” to this can be explained by a lot of things but from democrat who hates Trump to this extreme end of the spectrum seems concerning to me and like something to take seriously as a possible health issue.
all about eevee
Yes, this. My Mom just did this exact thing and it turned out to be a benign tumor on her parathyroid.
Seventh Sister
I’ve had to make clear with my parents that we cannot, under any circumstances, talk about politics. We do occasionally talk about local issues – but things like parcel taxes and fire pit rules, not defunding the police. Also, we’re not watching Fox News when we visit their house, they have to turn it off if we are awake.* My kids are old enough to know a little about politics, and they are also told not to bring it up with their grandparents because their grandparents like President Trump. It’s hard, but we’ve had years of experience having a relationship between defined parameters. *Nothing* I’ve ever said will convince them this guy isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread, though I do hold out hope that my super-evangelical, always conservative-voting relatives might sway them because said relatives are horrified by the events of the past few years.
*Now, my parents and my grandparents have been watching Fox News since its inception, so I have literal decades of experience making snide comments about stuff on Fox News.
Rewind to March
My area was barely touched in March, April, and May and we locked down hard then. I wish we had locked down less and spent that time adjusting to making and safe ways to go out and about, which would have served us better once people started going out in warm weather (and tourists / summer travel has started). I feel like people locked up too hard and are rightly sick of it and we should have spent that time learning COVID-coping and work-arounds. Ugh. The good news (?) is that we’ll be probably figuring out this wave during the summer and will have much more in the way of skills for when schools start back up (stepkid’s college is going on-campus but with remote learning, which I think will make kids happy (not to be at home) and faculty happy (not to be mixing with students but teaching from an empty classroom). IDK how that will work with lab sciences, student teaching, and fields like nursing and where you learn more in person (cutting hair? electrician apprentice programs?). But learning how to move forward is important, since we will be muddling through for a while to come. It turns out that this isn’t like “shelter in place, it will be binary and either sheltering or not, no in-between” to “yes, the dentist will resemble Breaking Bad; that is a good thing”.
Anonymous
The good news is that there is over a 99% chance survival rate for the healthy. Everyone please wash your hands and have a nice summer.
Anonymous
Define “healthy” and count the percentage of people who are in that demographic.
Anon
I mean, just to get math-y about it… my understanding is that the OVERALL survival rate is over 99%. Which implies for the healthy it is even greater than that, but of course for a lot of demographics it is less than that.
I am not trying to make a scandal statement here or say the non healthy demographic isn’t important, just correcting the math as I think I understand it.
Anon
And yes, yes, I know that 99% isn’t set in stone & you can find varying %s (usually in that ballpark though) still because we just don’t know yet.
Anonymous
? I thought the death rate was 12% here.
DH is a very fit athlete and he’s worried about covid because of the long term lung damage, similar to COPD that seems to be happening in healthy people.
Anon
Another confused reader wondering what the source is for this 99% survival rate claim. That would make this even less risky than general seasonal flu, which is usually in the high 90s for a survival rate.
Anon
The death rate is definitely not 12% in the US. Perhaps that was in the beginning somewhere when only the worst cases were tested/reported?
The seasonal flu has a death rate of 0.1%. So when they talk about the COVID potentially having a death rate of, say, 0.7% (POTENTIALLY, WE DON’T KNOW) the scientists talk about how that is 7x the flu rate which is obviously not good but still means there is more than a 99% survivability for both.
Anon
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200518144915.htm
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-covid-death.html
Note these studies say the death rate is 1.3%, but also note it doesn’t account for undetected cases which would make it lower.
To be clear, I am not saying this is minimal or something to sniff at. I am only making the point that the 99% survivability did not apply to only healthy people as mentioned by the original poster of this stat, it applied to the population as a whole, of which some characteristics will make some people have better numbers, some won’t.
Anon
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html
(And yes, I know at the end of the article people question these numbers – as they should – but still worth just noting it is in the same ballpark).
Anon
The best estimates for overall infection fatality rate are between 0.5% and 1%, so yes 99% of people (ALL people, not just healthy people) will be fine. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2
That said, that is much higher than flu, which is more like 0.1-0.2%, and it would still result in a huge number of deaths (~2-3.5M Americans dead, if we all got it. We won’t ALL get it, but in the absence of precautions, probably 70% of us would, which still puts death projections well over a million).
Anon
I thought 12% was for over 80, though it could be an older number.
The hospitalization rate is also much higher than the flu.
Anonymous
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/05/covid-19-fact-check-coronavirus-mortality-rate-misleading/3019503001/
Anon
Thanks. I think this actually kind of agrees with what I’m saying above? That a) a 99%ish survival rate overall is our best guess as of now but b) that means it is way more lethal than the flu as mentioned at 2:28; b) that 1% is still nothing to sniff at as mentioned in 2:35 (when you scale it to actual numbers of people like the article suggests); c) that this number will obviously vary when you dig into the demographics (but that doesn’t mean that this isn’t an overall number) and finally d) we really don’t know yet, as caveated a couple of times above.
But I think it’s better to have this framework for at least something to think about than to think…for example..that any person in the US that gets COVID has a 12% chance of dying.
Sloan Sabbith
…Not quite sure where to start here.
Anon
Okay? Those are just the numbers that I have read (and cited above). If you have other sources I’m happy to listen. I have no vested interest here.
I also a) realize this is all early data that’s not perfect – but we have to start somewhere, & I find even the initial framework helpful, & b) realize as you dig deeper into various demographics the numbers for that specific demographic may look different. I hope I was clear in my answers that I’m not trying to be blase about these two things.
Anon
You’re right that a lot of privileged people need to learn coping mechanisms. Why is it that in my area and at my job, the people complaining the loudest and violating basic social distancing the fastest are the richest people with the biggest houses to spread out in? This is obviously a generalization, but I’m guessing that for some of these people, this is the first major hardship that they have gone through. I’ve noticed that among my friends who have experience tragedies in the past, they’re doing pretty ok and showing a lot of resilience. I feel resilient too and I think it’s a reflection of what I went through as a kid. Now I know I can survive way worse than this because I already did.
Anon.
I completely agree that the more privileged people seem to be coping the worst. My 90 year old grandmas who went through the hardships of WWII and its aftermath in Europe cope extremely well, while I have observed that my parents’ generation of 60-75 year olds seem to be focused on the all the inconveniences.
I think it’s ok to acknowledge that this is hard for everyone in different ways – singles who experience loneliness or can’t go find a partner now, couples who might be experiencing relationship troubles, parents or caregivers who have to manage work and carer responsibilities,… And the mental health effects for many people are not to be discounted. I personally feel grief for all the daily things I can’t or don’t want to do without major precautions and stress level now – going to a food fair, date night at a nice bar, storytime at the library, children’s birthdays etc.
But I think there are safe ways to bring back meaningful and healthy social interactions, in small selected groups – I do not understand why you have to go to a bar or cinema for that? And why can’t you wear a mask for 2 hours if you go?
Anon
I mean part of it may be just lifestyle. My grandparents are doing fine and I don’t think it has anything to do with going through the hardships of WWII, just that they aren’t really actually giving that much up anyways. They didn’t have crazy busy social lives before all of this. If anything, they are getting more contact from their great-grandkids who are facetiming more often than before (2-3 times a week rather than 1/week before).
My parents on the other hand are having a much harder time. Before this, they visited their grandkids all the time and now they can’t. They are unable to participate in many of the activities they saved for years to enjoy in their retirement. They know there are only so many years during which they’ll be healthy enough to enjoy those and they’re seeing them melt away.
That said, I completely agree with your last paragraph! I don’t understand why we can’t have more reasonable solutions like small social gatherings rather than lots of public gatherings.
Anonymous
Yep. If you’ve already been through trauma in your life, staying mostly at home during a pandemic feels pretty straightforward.
Anon
Really? It feels “straightforward” not to be able to see your friends or family for the better part of two years?
Monday
I agree with this assessment that many privileged people have little to no experience with hardship. This is also un-earned hardship, i.e. not a punishment for anything and not avoidable, and privileged people tend to believe that life is more or less fair. Poor or otherwise disadvantaged people are a lot more accustomed to living in a bad situation just because.
Anon
+1
Senior Attorney
Great point.
anon
Totally agree with this. Thanks for articulating it so well.
Anon
You’re welcome. I’d also like to note to anyone who is interested in the subject that you CAN cultivate resilience and be an active player in your own response to hardship. This was a helpful realization for me in the past – that I didn’t just have to blindly suffer through the traumas I was going through and that effective coping could really help me (over a period of time) process things in a healthier way.
Anon
“This is obviously a generalization, but I’m guessing that for some of these people, this is the first major hardship that they have gone through.”
There are two types of people who are complaining the most about the lockdowns: the people who are declaring bankruptcy because their businesses are going under and they literally lost their life savings, and the people who have never had a Bad Thing happen to them in their lives and can’t cope.
Anon
I’m complaining about the lockdowns. I’m not declaring bankruptcy but am having a really hard time between a fulltime + job, an active extroverted toddler, a high risk pregnancy, two deaths in the family with no funerals or ability to mourn with family, not being able to outsource anything, etc.. I guess I’ve never had a bad thing happen to me in my life though according to you though since I’m complaining and aren’t declaring bankruptcy. Apparently my eating disorder in highschool, that s*xual assault in college and my PTSD/PPD from a 3 month NICU stay don’t count!
Anonymous
The reason it didn’t get bad for you was the lockdown. If you had stayed open it would have spread rapidly. I wish you’d be grateful that you weren’t kept awake by sirens every night.
Anonymous
I think it’s like people burned out before the real work was upon us (and we are having very sudden and major local spikes now). It’s like we had 2-3 months to prepare and did nothing with it. And then just went outside sans mask and inside sans mask and now we have 1000s of cases and are at highest-level hospitalizations, which we formerly didn’t have. Vacationers may have bought it with them and we have been great at spreading it. It’s like we didn’t have any experience to learn from and how we are getting it in spades.
It doesn’t make my life that different — schools and most camps are closed, so we can’t really leave the house except on outside walks. I wear masks inside stores and it’s maybe 30% masked for shoppers unless a place requires it for entry. Workers are all masked. Everyone else is done with them it seems :(
Anonymous
Right, and no morgue truck parked outside your window.
Anonymous
Can we stop with the “you only need to learn workaround skills” or “have more moral fortitude” talk? Folks are doing what they can. I don’t begrudge the staying in that slowed spread until PPE supplies could catch up or look down on my friend who is having groceries delivered because she is immune compromised. I m sure it’s not intended, but it comes off very smug. I’ve had one friend die and another lose their baby due to Covid—both smart, brave, conscientious folks and didn’t deserve it. There’s more than just being savvy to get through this and back to norm.
American Girl
Yes, agreed, this comment irks me too. Resilience is important, but we’re also going through a collective tragedy. My friend lost his father and couldn’t have a funeral; families are being separated from each other for months or even years; people are missing weddings and dating and work opportunities and meeting new babies and just the simple joy of spending an hour with a close friend over coffee. Not to mention, of course, the tremendous amount of suffering by people who are out of work or sickened or dying from COVID. By and large, we’re social creatures and we need each other — and we need each other all the more when we’re dealing with tragedy, which is the cruelest irony of this pandemic. If you don’t find any of this difficult maybe you’re just extraordinarily resilient — or maybe you are just extremely introverted.
Anon
I think you’re missing the key point that resilient people find this difficult too – it’s just that their coping mechanisms are more effective, probably because of what they’ve had to deal with in the past. In any case, I think we all know people who are perhaps less resilient and who are “back to normal” as much as possible, but if they truly cannot social distance for whatever mental reason, they need to at least commit to wearing masks and taking other basic steps to protect the rest of us. A LOT of people have given up on that (“I just can’t…”) and I think we need to ask them to do more. They CAN do more and may need a push from family and friends to recognize that they are stronger than they think.
Anon.
+1
Anon
” They CAN do more and may need a push from family and friends to recognize that they are stronger than they think.”
This is an unbelievably arrogant and callous statement. I honestly can’t believe I just read this. You have no empathy.
Ribena
I’m normally a pretty resilient person, but part of that is having aren’t my coping strategies, and 95% of those are things that aren’t available to me at the moment – whether that’s coffee dates with friends, quietly browsing in a bookstore, sitting in a pub, or going home to visit my parents or a couple of days.
Monday
Also, part of resiliency is adaptability/flexibility. This means figuring out new ways to cope when the existing ways aren’t available. I am by no means callous to those struggling right now, and I am too, but resiliency is still a relevant concept.
Anonymous
+2 to Anon at 10:59. Everyone is experiencing COVID fatigue, but that doesn’t mean we can’t encourage people to try harder at the things that may prevent spikes, i.e. mask wearing, social distancing, etc. I am one of those people who has had very little trouble with the isolation aspect of the pandemic because I am pretty introverted and hate having social obligations, and also hated going into work in my awful office; that said, I completely recognize that I’m in the minority and most people (including my extremely extroverted toddler son!) are struggling.
American Girl
Yeah, I think there’s a difference between people who are struggling with the social distancing, but doing it anyway, and people who are just not reallly bothered by socially distancing. If you’re introverted and are happy as a clam right now because you’re suddenly unburdened by the social obligations that stressed you out before, it doesn’t seem fair to describe that as “resilience.” I feel everyone I know falls in one of two camps: either (1) covid is “over,” what is social distancing even?? or (2) I am mostly content in this quarantine life because I still have a job and didn’t really love going into the office before.
I feel like I’m the only person I know who is social distancing but *hates* it. I am socially distancing to the max, and it’s *because* I am socially distancing to the max — and I’m an extrovert — that this is really, really hard for me. It breaks my heart that I won’t be able to see my aging parents, siblings, many of my close friends, and colleagues for another year or possibly longer. But I’m doing it, because I think it’s important. My coping “strategies” are exercise, yoga, and long phone calls with friends and family. But it’s no substitute for the warm feeling of breaking bread with four or five people that you love and cherish. And I get to be heartbroken that I’ve lost that, at at least for a while, and it doesn’t mean I’m not resilient. I’ve been through plenty in my life. I think people who diminish the struggle of social distancing as “being sad you can’t go to bars” maybe were just not that attached to their community to begin with.
Hildy
+ 1 million to everything American Girl said.
Anon
+10000 I really resent the implication that I’m not resilient or just a whiner because I’m having a hard time right now. I’ve experienced a fair amount of trauma in my life and you know what helped me get through it – being around other people! Therapy taught me a lot of amazing coping mechanisms to deal with my PTSD and I think I’m pretty resilient. This is really freaking hard for me because all of my coping mechanisms are unavailable to me right now. But apparently I’m just weak…
anon
Introverts are also missing funerals, weddings, graduations, birthdays. etc. We are human too and this is difficult for everyone. Sadly it’s much easier to complain than to develop effective coping skills.
Anon
People are allowed to complain every once in a while.
Anon
I am fine with complaining from people who can trouble themselves to put on a mask.
anon
Venting is absolutely fine and necessary — I just hope it’s not the only thing you do!
Vicky Austin
Well, it’s “run the air-con at full blast so the men don’t feel even a twinge of heat” season in my office. Brrrrr.
Panda Bear
I hate that! Silver lining, I tell myself, is that I get to wear my lovely cardigans and blazers all year long.
Anon
I hate that. There have been times where I have been so cold in my office I can barely concentrate. Always in the Summer.
Abby
it should not feel colder in the office in the summer than the winter!! Ugh
cake batter
I normally like the cold, but this year I’m pregnant so I LOVE it. Bring on the FREEZING air, I’m an oven anyway!
Anonymous
Recognizing it’s not the most fashionable or popular idea…I have fully embraced sheer hose in the office when the A/C wars begin. Seems to really help with my shoes as well. It’s a thin but helpful layer and to be honest makes me feel a little more put together–think work uniform.
Shopaholic
this is one of the upsides of WFH.I havent been absolutely freezing while working since mid-March!
Anone
Being comfortable with my own thermostat is mostly why my productivity is up and my weight is down during WFH. I’m not constantly stuffing my face with comfort snacks and running for steaming coffee every five minutes to distract myself from the cold air blowing down my neck.
anon
+1000
Lots to Learn
I’m finding during WFH that my entire family (husband, two daughters) apparently run super-hot. So I’m freezing in my own house and have my space heater running right now – and I live in the deep south!!
Never too many shoes...
Sometimes I feel like the only woman here who loves the freezing office. I absolutely would choose to freeze over roast.
Alone.in.Austin
Hive – I need some relationship advice. I ended a 20-year live-in relationship in the Fall, of which the last 10 years were hellish. I recently re-connected with someone I dated 22 years ago (I know- cliché to reach out to exes during COVID). He now lives 1200 miles away, but we have talked every day for two months, re-discovering just how much we have in common, and really opening up and sharing, and re-sparking the romance. He is a white-collar professional, but does not earn much at all and so currently he is living with a sibling. He has three degrees; I have two and I make a good wage. We are aligned politically and philosophically. I’m a few years from retiring. I can afford to support myself, so I don’t need a man to support me. He has not asked for anything from me. We are going to re-connect next month in his hometown and take a vacation together at a beach hotel for five days. Other than financial advice, like don’t lend any money (I wouldn’t); and get a pre-nup if you marry (I would), do you have any advice on whether this could work or whether I’m headed for disaster? One underpinning here is that I am in my late fifties and feeling like I don’t want to spend the last third of my life solo. I have spent most of the past ten years flying solo even though I’ve been in a relationship. He is someone who would enjoy going to plays, antique stores, farmers markets, concerts, etc. Thanks everyone.
Anon
Couple of thoughts.
– Two months is not a long time, even if you’ve been talking every day, and over-the-phone or texting is different than in-person interaction. Gently, I think you may be jumping the gun a little bit here. I know it’s very exciting to contemplate possibilities and I also know that as we get older, less time is usually spent in the “courtship” stage before commitments are made. But definitely don’t overthink this or start making too many plans. You may get into day 2 of the trip with him and wish you’d never reconnected. In-person energy is different than on-the-phone energy.
– I don’t think any of us know whether or not this will work out – nobody knows – but I do think that even men in later life get turned off by partners who want to move too far too fast. So maybe look at this as, you’re going to go and have a good time and see if there’s any “there” there, and then figure out the next part at the appropriate time. I have friends in their late 50s and it actually is kind of amazing to watch – someone will get divorced, or their spouse will pass away, and there is this “reconnection” thing that happens, with people they knew a long time ago, and there are still sparks there. And, in their 50s people get together and stay together for totally different reasons than we had in our 20s and 30s – without all the pressure of “let’s build a life together” it seems like people are able to connect on a deeper and more honest level and figure out what doesn’t work for them (my observation). But, you aren’t the same person you were 22 years ago and neither is he, and so maybe approaching it from the perspective of “let’s get to know each other as we are now and not as we remember each other” would serve you.
– I also think that maybe not during this trip (again – too soon) but in the future the 1200-mile distance will have to be discussed. That’s pretty far and you say you are a “few years” from retirement. If neither of you can or are willing to move, that’s going to be a big X factor in whatever happens going forward and I would be thinking about that so when the conversation does happen, you know what your boundaries are.
Anonymous
I think just take it slowly! Go on vacation. See what it’s like. If you enjoy it, try seeing each other again.
Panda Bear
I guess if I were in your shoes, I would focus on enjoying the trip and seeing how it feels to hang out with this person after so many years. You don’t need to start drafting a pre-nup in your head yet – just see how it goes; be thoughtful, but have fun.
Anonymous
I know how easy it is to get swept up in a new relationship, but good lord I got a little bit of whiplash from your comment. If I read correctly, this trip is the first time in over 20 years you’re seeing this guy in person? Just relax. There’s a whole lot of steps between the first in person meeting and marriage. Enjoy this new romance and don’t borrow trouble. Have a great time!
Anon
See how it goes! You’d hardly be the first person to reconnect with an old flame. Not sure why you’re concerned about loans and pre-nups at this point, see if you fall in love and go from there. Not everything should be approach from the worst case scenario point of view – you can risk yourself into missing your life. Go for the things that bring joy – sometimes you get a happy ending and not a flaming disaster, but the latter is way more likely when you approach it as a foregone conclusion.
Amber
Such good advice! I like how you worded your reply! OP, I agree with the others – try not to over think too much and have too high expectations. Hope you enjoy your trip and report back if you can!
Anon
Agree with the advice not to rush into anything and that it’s way too soon to be even casually thinking about marriage. But what really stood out to me is that you spent the last 10 years is a “hellish” relationship that ended less than a year ago. I feel like you’re really scared of being single. That’s a big problem, imo, and one you should work on in therapy before you try to move onto any new relationship. This guy could be literally the most perfect man on earth for you and the relationship is unlikely to end well if you’re using him as a life preserver. You should want to be with him because of him, not because the alternative is scary singleness and until you fix that underlying issue, I think it will be hard for you to be in a good relationship. Also, while it’s certainly understandable that you want to find a partner for the next phase of your life, I would not equate your feelings about having to ‘fly solo’ while in a relationship to what it’s like being single. It may sound counterintuitive, but being single can often be a lot less lonely than feeling alone when you ostensibly have a partner. You may find when you don’t have the “my partner should be here and isn’t” sadness that you actually enjoy going solo to things like the farmer’s market and concerts, or you may find friends fill these roles well. I’m not saying a friend is equivalent to a romantic partner, but there is a certain kind of misery about being alone-while-coupled that is so much worse than just being alone period (speaking from experience here).
Sunshine
Can anyone suggest a reasonably comfortable plastic face shield to be worn with a mask? I will have to go to a hospital setting for several hours and want to add a shield to my usual mask. I have a larger head.
Go for it
Look on Etsy, I saw a bunch of adjustable s that would work for my large head
sleep
+1
I bought mine on Etsy. Just search face shield and buy one of their best sellers.
Honestly, the best protection is probably goggles with a N95 if you are in the hospital setting, but I have had trouble finding goggles that fit well, so I am wearing a KN95 + Etsy face shield. Eye protection, as we have learned, is quite important.
Anon
Does anyone know if any fast food chains are wearing masks and following good safety protocols? I am high risk and I am planning a backpacking trip for this weekend, but the one weak spot in the itinerary is that I think we may need to stop for food on the way home. I suspect this may be county dependent and we will be going through some counties that are not that vigilant so I’m thinking that maybe I should just pack and carry extra food even though it’s more weight.. .the other options that are directly on the way are McDonald’s or equivalent. Thoughts?
Anon
Of course they are. And I’m in a Trump area where “ain’t nobody gonna tell me what to do.” Major businesses are absolutely wearing masks, if nothing else than to prevent liability.
Anon
Hm, that’s good. I posted this because my friend in extreme Trump country reported the opposite…
Anonymous
I think that chain restaurants are pretty reliable. They run on consistency and food safety. Depending on where you are, you probably can’t go in to use the bathroom; just take-out.
Anonymous
hey babe we’re all in Trump county! yee haw!
anon
Also in Trump country and this has been my experience. Chains and national businesses are definitely following safety protocols. There are a handful of local business that are taking a stand against the “libtard conspiracy” but they are the minority (and very easily avoided).
anon
I’m in a red state where many people are not social distancing or wearing masks. I got fast food yesterday from a drive-through, and all customer-facing employees were wearing masks, and the person taking credit cards or cash was also wearing gloves. I didn’t see the kitchen, but I’d be very surprised if those employees were not also wearing masks.
anon8
Same. I’ve been doing through the drive through for a while now and have always seen masks and gloves.
Anon
Are they wearing them over their face or pushed down on their chin? I’ve seen a lot of the latter where I live.
cake batter
+1 I see masks worn incorrectly at many chains and fast food. Well, everywhere to be honest.
Anonymous
I think this depends on the county/state. I’m in a SEUS city, and even if people are really Trumpy, they understand the city will shut them down if they don’t do it and would prefer to be open. In some of the more rural counties I’ve been to while hiking, there are no masks in sight. (That being said, those counties tend to have very few cases that are confined to meatpacking plants and nursing homes.)
KS IT Chick
My county in Kansas got mentioned on the front page of the New York Times this weekend because of the low case rate and high mask usage rate. Every restaurant and fast food place says they are wearing masks. The fast food places are quite reliably; restaurants not so much.
Anonymous
About a month ago I went to a McDonalds in rural Illinois (west) and they had a plastic shield up for most of the window (like you see at grocery store check outs) and the person was gloved and masked. Dunkin Donuts had no shield but the person was gloved and masked. You could also just bring shelf stable snacks like nuts, jerky, etc.
TheElms
Also, if you did fast food, couldn’t you get drive through?
anon
I think she wants reassurance that they’re taking precautions inside the building, especially if they need to go in to use the restroom.
Anonymous
They don’t want you in their restaurant. Their restrooms probably are NOT open to you, just to staff. Our chains can reopen to 50% capacity and have chosen to remain drive-through-only (McDonalds, Bojangles, Chic-Fil-A, etc.). SEUS big city.
TheElms
I don’t think that was the point of the question. She specifically mentioned food and the possibility of carrying more food while backpacking to avoid going in a restaurant. No mention of using the restroom at all. If you’ve just spent a few days backpacking my guess is you’d be ok finding an out of the way spot to relieve yourself outside.
Anon
I thought the idea was that they’d still be on foot (can’t use a drive through on foot).
Anon
Yes, we would plan to do drive through, but I’m a little extra hesitant because we don’t have access to good hand washing on the road like we do if we get takeout at home. Peeing outside is no problem :)
Anonymous
If your concern is hand-washing, I don’t see why your risk increases with drive-through over carrying food with you. I think the transmission is more likely from your hands to your mouth/nose than from the hands of the person handing you a sandwich in a bag to your mouth/nose. Take a lot of hand sanitizer and use it before you put anything in your mouth, whether you bought it or brought it.
Really, I think your concerns are overblown generally if we are talking drive-through, but yes, they are all wearing masks in chains.
Anon
I’ll be the dissenting voice – I used the drive-through at a big chain fast food place in the Midwest last week and the two employees I interacted with were not wearing masks. One had a mask lying on her work station; the other had gloves, but didn’t change them for each customer.
Anon
I’m in a very red state and the local McDonalds requires masks for both patrons and employees.
Nesprin
I recently had to drive, and most places in california were very good about occupancy, masking/face shielding. FYI: quite a lot of bathrooms are out of service due to COVID.
Anon
I’ll be another voice of dissent. I stopped at a big chain fast food restaurant in rural Virginia earlier this month. It was right after the Virginia requirement to wear face mask when indoors want in to place, and none of the staff or the two other patrons inside were wearing mask. They had installed a big plastic shield, like those you see in grocery stores, but didn’t seem to be doing anything else.
Anon
Oh, and I forgot to mention, that the door had a sign saying facemask were required but neither the staff or other customers were following it
Anonymous
If you are driving, why don’t you just leave extra (shelf-stable) food in the car so it is there ready for your trip home? No need to haul it with you during the trip.
Anon
Bears.
Anon
Does anyone have any Air BNB cancelation advice? I have a place booked in late August internationally, but my passport expired and even if it is safe to travel I cannot renew it under the current rules. I contacted the host and they said it was no problem to cancel. I contacted Air BNB and they copy pasted their policy and did not respond to what I actually said, including the part that the host is ok with a cancelation and full refund. If I try to cancel on the page for the reservation my refund shows as $0.
This is only my second time using the airbnb site. I have no idea what to do. Does anyone have ideas? TIA!
Anon
Reply back again. Or call.
Anon for this
Persist. I got a full refund of a non-refundable Airbnb (international travel; airline cancelled our flights) through persisting past the auto reply in the chat. Screenshots of the cancelled flight got the job done.
Anonymous
Wait, they’re not renewing passports? That’s really frightening, I’m sorry.
Anon
You can still mail them in for renewal, it may be delayed though.
Anon.
It may not be a US passport.
I have a greencard but travel with a European passport, and I am so glad I got mine renewed in January even though it only expires in the fall – my closest consulate wasn’t open during the lockdowns, and has very limited appointment availibility even after a few weeks.
Anonymous
The guidance I saw online is they will renew only if it’s an emergency (like a funeral out of the country – their example).
I agree that it’s frightening.
Airplane.
Have the host do it on their end – I hosted a bunch and the platform lets the host refund full fees. You don’t need to go through airbnb if the host has already agreed.
CountC
+1 Did you go into your trip and cancel through the app? You shouldn’t have to reach out to AirBnB for a cancellation this far out. I have never had to and I cancelled a three day trip after one day of a stay at a place that was not at all as represented and got everything but the service fees back (I know you want a full refund and this far out that shouldn’t be an issue). I recently cancelled a full trip because of COVID and also had no trouble without having to reach out to AirBnB.
Cat
I think hosts don’t like to initiate the cancellation because Airbnb then automatically posts “the host cancelled the reservation X days prior to arrival.” I’d recommend replying to the chat that your problem wasn’t resolved to keep the dialogue going.
CountC
I guess my confusion is that I’ve never not been able to cancel it out of my own account. I’ve never needed a host or AirBnB to cancel a trip for me. I do it myself
Anon
Frankly, I hope this pandemic takes Airbnb down a few notches. They are and have always been the worst at customer service. Once they’ve got your money they dgaf anymore.
anon
Yep, I deleted my Airbnb account after an awful experience in April.
CrowTRobot
I have a timely experience, but it’s not quite the same as your situation.
We had a trip scheduled to start Jul 16th. As of Jun 15th, AirBNB extended their cancellation policy for a full refund (either cash or AirBNB credit) for any trip booked before a March date and start date before July 30th. My reservation was made with a strict cancellation policy, but the owner had amended it to 50% refund due to COVID.
When I went to get a full refund (based on their latest policy), I could only get the 50% refund through the site. I messaged AirBNB because my trip met all their full refund criteria, and they sent me a link to apply for a full refund. I had to choose one of 4 options for cancellation and provide supporting documentation. I chose the medical option, and I needed to show documentation. I reached out to my pediatrician, and she sent me a letter just saying to cancel the trip due to COVID concerns. I was concerned the letter was too vague, but it worked, and I was approved for a full refund.
My recommendation is to reach out to AirBNB through the messaging function. You should qualify for one of the full refund cancellation options unless they give you push-back on the August date. Currently August falls outside of their cancellation policy timeline.
Anon
Someone mentioned “N85” cloth masks yesterday. Is that really a thing? If so, any to recommend?
Anonymous
I think the masks making this claim were Brooks Brothers
Carrie
I was also surprised to read about this, but am planning to buy the Brooks Brothers masks because of this claim. Who knows….?
But probably any cloth mask that has an additional wire/bendable piece to mold it around your nose, and additional stitching around the edges to bring the fit closer to the face, is an optimal design. Brooks brothers has this too. And this is not commonly seen. And of course, a pocket for a disposable filter.
Anonymous
Recommendations for cute and good quality swimsuits? Is it just me or are one pieces making a comeback? I’m seeing a lot of deep v-necks with frills around the neckline, but my friends get their suits from places I’m not comfortable giving my credit card to (think overseas and cheaply made). I also need more bust support. I’m planning to do some kayaking and paddle boarding this summer, so a one piece is appealing to hold in my tummy a little while sitting/kneeling. Any recommendations for something sexy and supportive that will keep everything in place while I’m falling off my board?
Lana Del Raygun
Lands’ End
AnonATL
Agree with Lands End. They have all sorts of cuts from super modest to classic bikini, though I don’t think they have any string bikinis if that’s your thing. None of it will be the super trendy styles you see on Instagram, but they have a lot of cute practical options.
I believe most of their swim is on sale right now. I’ve had a swim shirt from them for a good 5+ years now and it’s like new.
NOLA
I got my tankinis last year at Target. They have mix and match tops and bottoms that I really liked. I’ve also gotten suits from Land’s End and Soma, if you’re willing to spend more.
Anon
I got my last one piece from Boden. They make some cute suits.
Cat
Cute and supportive, yes, but I ordered two last spring and the colors have not held up well. One summer of shore weekends (minimal pool or hot tub use, mostly salt water, and washing in a lingerie bag and hanging dry).
Tthere’s a noticeable difference between front and back colors.
Anon
I think Athleta has one pieces with bra sizes.
Anon
I love my Miraclesuit one piece. It supports and hold everything in, even though the one I have does not have bra sizing in the traditional sense. I am a 34 G for the record.
Senior Attorney
I’ve been happy with Freye swimwear.
Senior Attorney
Oops Freya with an a.
Anon
One pieces are making a comeback. My 18 yo and her friends all bought one pieces last summer, after years of the tiniest bikinis you can imagine. But the one pieces have pretty extreme cutouts and still do t cover much of the rear end.
ollie
Summersalt or Athleta
Anonymous
Swimsuits for All has a wide range of styles – you can order different sizes for the top and bottom as well. Be sure the go by their size chart, though, and not your normal size.
Mal
Swimsuits for All has a wide range of styles and sizes that are well made – be sure to use their size chart, though, instead of your usual size.
Deedee
Any advice for preparing for one half of a couple to go back to school?
My spouse is preparing to return to school in the next 12-15 months. We’re 6 and 7 years out of college and have gotten used to some of the pros of being DINKs, mostly being able to spend money and travel. His prospective path will require some significant time in training, and we will need to take out loans to cover tuition (my salary isn’t enough to fund from income). What advice, financial and otherwise, do you have as we prepare for that?
I make about 55% of our HHI now, and we’ve started saving about half of his take home every month. With that, we’re poised to meet our emergency fund goal of 6 months of bare bones expenses saved in the next months, and hopefully will be able to pay off our modest car loan by the end of the calendar year. We save well for retirement relative to our ages because I’m fortunate to have an employer match (8%). I’m not sure how we should think about retirement and other longer term goals if he’s not earning… I was a first gen college grad, so questions about money management aren’t something I can ask family. Any advice, especially if you’ve followed a similar path in your household, would be very be appreciated!
Anonymous
You’re doing all the right things, you have quite a long time to save up. I’d want to know how long his schooling will take and how much he’s likely to make after. That way, you can run the numbers to see how to make up retirement savings for his time out of the work force. With respect to loans, others may know more, but I would try to avoid signing his loans if at all possible.
No Problem
I think first you need to decide what your goals are in the context of the length of time he’s going to be in school again and the training period afterwards, and center your budget around those goals. Is it to simply continue a slightly reduced version of your current lifestyle? Are you trying to save aggressively for a house, or are you planning to have kids while he’s still in school or training? Those are both very large expenses that will take a different kind of planning and budgeting than just continuing as-is. I’m assuming by being 6-7 years out of school that you’re in your late 20s. If so, you have plenty of time to save for retirement. Obviously continue saving while he’s in school, but it’s ok if it’s at a slightly reduced rate than before. When he’s back in the workforce you’ll be able to save more.
If I were in your shoes, my priority would be to fund current expenses and some retirement savings while he’s at reduced income without going into debt other than his student loans. Obviously you’re going to have to take a hard look at your current expenses and trim where you can. He’s probably not going to be able to travel as much as before anyway due to class or training schedules (to say nothing of whatever Covid will be doing at that point), so consider that something you can and should reduce significantly from your budget. I’m sure there will be other items that you can sacrifice.
Deedee
This is helpful, thank you. We definitely will want to start having kids while he is in school, and should probably think more about what that would look like financially. The hope & plan is for my mother and his mother to help with childcare, at least in the early years. However, while my mother would move with us for his training, his wouldn’t, which could be a major thing to consider.
Anon
Have you talked about these plans with both mothers? I’ve heard a lot of stories of couples assuming their parents would provide child care while the parents have other ideas entirely. It usually ends with a lot of resentment.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, this issue, and the flipside: I also have a few friends whose mothers/MILs said they’d want to watch their grandkids during the week, but once that became reality they realized how much work that is and how much scheduling they’d have to do around it.
Deedee
Oh, my mother is eagerly awaiting the moment! But I take your point that we will need to have many more detailed conversations before we start trying. :)
Ses
This was me ~10 years ago. It sounds like you’re getting some good advice on money management as a couple, but I also advise taking a moment to think about what this means for you financially as an individual. I speak from the perspective of having helped a significant other get through school with a light loan burden, and then we broke up as soon as they graduated. I’m not saying this will to happen to you, but making sure your individual future is as secure as your joint future just makes sense for many reasons.
While S.O. was in school, I kept putting money into my own retirement, I covered most of our living expenses, and we took out loans in S.O.’s name for his education. When we split, we split our savings and joint debts, but we each kept our individual retirement accounts and educational debt. I was so glad I continued to save in my individual retirement and not put it on pause to fund more of his education. Even if we had stayed together, the tax benefits of funding retirement would have been a good decision, so there was no real drawback to doing things this way. It was only the psychological impression of all debt being negative that made us consider funding education rather than retirement.
So my advice is just to allow yourself to do the thought experiment of: what would all this look like if we split up or some other disaster happened? Don’t let ideas like “it wouldn’t matter at that point” stop you from thinking this through. Yes, a disaster would make you feel like none of this matters – for a while. But then 10 years later you’ll feel differently and you’ll be glad you looked out for yourself as an individual in addition to as part of a couple.
The other thing I’d note is that you may want to separate out some amount of individual spending-money to avoid having to manage each others’ spending (or feeling guilty) once the budget is tighter. Pay bills from a shared account and agree on some minimum amount that you’ll each get every month that is un-monitored. It avoids arguments and power struggles.
Anon
This is really great advice.
Anonymous
This is extremely unlikely, and I hope it doesn’t happen to OP, but I had a friend whose husband died relatively young and while still in school. They did not have any life insurance on him. The only positive was that they were funding his tuition with loans in his name only, and they were discharged after he died. Had she co-signed, she would have had to repay them after his death.
Deedee
Oh, I’m so sorry this happened to your friend–how awful.
NOLA
Just wanted to share some good news. After a minor health emergency (one of her canines came out) on the day of TS Cristobal, my formerly outdoor cat is currently indoors! I’ve had her for 3 years and she had never been willing to stay inside or use a litterbox. As I type, she is curled up on her new blankie next to me on my dining room bench where I work. She is adorable and I am loving learning more about her sweet personality (and love for treats) now that she’s inside and gaining confidence and trust. Still keeping my two girls apart and my formerly only indoor cat is still pretty pissed about having her inside and not being able to come downstairs. The new indoor kitty is very small (8 lbs) and my now upstairs cat is over 13 lbs, but the little one is pretty bada$$, so we’ll see. I don’t have a good way to put screens between them for introduction, so I’m trying to just find times when both are relaxed and allowing them to interact. I don’t know if this could have happened if I weren’t WFH so there’s that, right?
Panda Bear
Oh that sounds wonderful. I’m so glad she is transitioning to indoor life; when I had a semi-outdoor cat, I was always so nervous that he would get hurt. Fingers crossed that upstairs kitty will adjust and accept soon. It takes time and patience, but most of my cat pairs have eventually found their balance.
Amber
That is so sweet! Good luck with getting the 2 cats to interact well – I had trouble with that in the past (not a great experience so I don’t have any advice) but I am so glad the outdoor one is able to come inside now!
NOLA
I have been trying, in various ways, to get her in for years. I even tried in between indoor cats, thinking that she would adjust more easily. She just wasn’t interested. But I think, this time, she just felt so awful with the tooth, that she willingly stayed in and now she’s just a happy girl.
cat socks
That’s great! One of my kitties is a former semi-feral – really more of a scardey cat than anything. It took about a year of working with him he has transitioned into a very happy indoor kitty. He has the cutest polydactl paws and transitioned perfectly into using the litter box and scratching post.
Anone
I’m a cat owner and foster for 30+ years. Is your formerly outdoor cat fully vaccinated and vetted? They should not interact in a way that allows them to touch (exchange fluids via nose touches) for two weeks until she’s cleared for signs of respiratory symptoms.
Give them blankets to lie on, or rub them with tee shirts, then exchange them so they get used to each other’s scents. Repeat this daily so the scent stays fresh until it’s time for a face-to-face meeting.
NOLA
Yes, she is fully vetted and vaccinated! I started taking her to the vet two years ago when she developed a mosquito allergy. I normally have to take her for steroid shots every summer and that’s her annual visit. Hoping to avoid needing that this year! She needs to go to the regular vet to have teeth checked. Oh, and thanks for the idea about introducing scent. They definitely smell each other on me, but I will do that. I bought the little one her own blanket and she sleeps on that or the one that I use as a cushion for myself. I could take it upstairs so the other cat smells her. Or, do something with my t-shirts.
Anonymous
Put a (clean) sock on your hand and rub it on one cat especially around the cheeks, then rub the other one with it. Repeat!
Anonymous for this post
Hello
Anyone gone through the bre@st lift procedure, Can you please throw light on the recovery process. Was the recovery painful ? How many days should I take off from work? Also any reco for surgeon in NYC area. Background about me: I am in my early 40s. No medical conditions. Not planning for more kids. I have achieved a weight that I am comfortable with and has been maintaining for past year. TIA.
Senior Attorney
No experience with a breast lift but I have had other procedures and my rule is this: Whatever the surgeon tells you the recovery time will be, double it. And good luck with your procedure!
OP
Thanks SA. The recovery time that I saw online was 2 weeks. So, I should plan 3-4 weeks of work from home.
Anon
KAT – I believe this is our residential bridge dweller.
Kat G
unlikely
Anon
What? This seems like a perfectly reasonable question to ask on this board. It’s something I plan to look into once I’m done with the being pregnant/BFing part of my life.
tulips
Some of y’all are nuts about tr0ll spotting. Just stop.
OP
OP here, Not every anonymous posters are troll.
Anonymous
How do you share vacation expenses with an SO who makes a lot less than you? BF and I are planning our first vacation together this summer. At my insistence, we’re doing some spendy things, like flying business class instead of coach. In my mind, it’s only fair that I pay for his upgrade. But other things are harder to quantify – cheap lodgings aren’t available because shared bathrooms aren’t allowed, so there’s no way to compare the cost of cheap lodgings vs whatever is going to be acceptable to me and is also the only thing available at this point. I want to be fair to him but I don’t want to feel taken advantage of. We haven’t talked about sharing expenses so I’d like to come to the table with a fair proposal. Thanks!
Anon
Surely there’s a range of lodging options between hostel and five star hotel you can look at? If you’re not going to pay for everything yourself, then I think you will need to lower your standards a bit in some areas. It’s not fair to insist of expensive things and ask somebody to split it with you.
OP
It definitely won’t be a 50/50 split, there’s no question about that. I’m not looking at five star hotels, but I do insist on a private bathroom. That’s the only thing available right now, anyway. This isn’t a range of options issue – he can’t afford anything in the range of options. I do think he should contribute SOMETHING, I just don’t know what that should be.
Anon
Then ask him what he can afford and add that to what you’re willing to spend.
Hildy
This. If he’s willing to spend x, then you foot the bill everything above x that you want to do. Or plan something that costs 2x or less.
Anonymous
So this is straight up a trip he cannot afford and wouldn’t be taking with out you. I think he should buy meals from time to time.
Anon
Ask him to pay what he would normally pay, then you add in the rest.
Bigger picture: you two are going to have to figure out a lot more with finances if you are going to make it as a couple.
Anon
It sounds like your boyfriend can’t afford this type of vacation at all. Was it really a mutual idea or is one or the other or you really the one pushing for it? That would sway my opinion.
For instance if you are pushing for it and he would never otherwise take a trip like this otherwise, I could see you paying for most of it.
However, if he’s the one pushing but expects you to pay for everything, then that’s a different situation and a bunch of red flags.
Ses
+1
Anonymous
If you’re rich enough to spring for business class I think you should pay for most of the trip. I’d talk to him about it and say that you’re comfortably paying x, y, and z, and can he cover abc. But also pro tip: discuss this before booking next time.
Amber
For the lodging, could you find a reasonably priced but still nice one that you like, and a cheaper version that you could live with? Then present the options to him and if he goes along with the more expensive one, you could offer to make up the difference between the two? Not sure if that makes sense. My ex made a lot less than me and I always ended up paying for everything because I never liked the cheap options lol! Needless to say, it caused friction between us because we never could find a way to balance things. Good luck!
Carmen Sandiego
I agree with the poster above that you will have to lower your standards some if you want a fair split and your BF can’t afford a 5-star hotel.
For what it’s worth, I think that mid-range vacation planning can be really hard – you’re not so rich that money is no object, but you’re not so broke that you’re just staying at the cheapest option, so you can end up spending hours reading reviews to make sure you get the “best” for your money. I think in these cases, the smartest and easiest way to go about it is to set a per-night budget that you can both afford and agree on and then sort your hotel options within that budget (only! look at hotels in the budget, or you’ll end up tempted by something much more expensive! I’m so guilty of this…) and then decide which other features make them appealing, like walkability, amenities, etc. If you’re doing multiple cities (like a road trip or something), consider one place that you want to splurge on a fancy hotel and go all out for that one (perhaps your treat if you want?).
OP
Just to be clear, “fair” doesn’t mean 50/50, I’m absolutely going to pay more and that’s totally fine.
I like the idea of a per night budget – maybe I can ask him to come up with what he can contribute per night and we’ll leave it at that. That seems more fair to him than a % split.
Carmen Sandiego
Yep, it sounds like a per-night budget might work, because you can each have your own per-night budget, yours will probably be higher than his, but you can choose a hotel that is at or under your combined per-night total. Good luck and have fun on your trip!
NY CPA
Yes or maybe do something like “I’ll cover the flights and hotels if you will pick up dinners and activities” or something?
Anonanonanon
This is exactly what I was going to say. You cover flight and lodging and he covers meals and activities?
OP
Really good idea, thanks! I’ll suggest both of these as possible options. We can do whatever he feels comfortable with.
The Original ...
I would plan it (or rough estimate it) as if you were doing it on his budget where you’d each pay half. Let’s say it would mean $1000 per person. I would then say to him, “You pay the $1000 as you would if we were doing this on your budget with your comfort level. However, since I have some comfort preferences, interests in some more spendy activities, etc., I am willing to pay everything over that amount on the trip if you are willing to indulge me even though I know some of the ideas may not be extravagances you are excited about or care either way about.” Then he can stick to his budget, you can budget as you plan the trip (since you’ll know what you’d have to cover), and both sides can feel like they got a fair deal.
Anon
This!
Anon
When I’ve done this, I usually pay for the things I would need to pay for if I was going solo. So I’d cover the room and my flights (plus the upgrade for both in this case). Then we would split activities and food/drink. I usually cover dinner/drinks if we go somewhere pricy that I want to go. The bigger issue, I think, is having a general conversation about expenses and comfort levels. I would personally feel really uncomfortable i couldn’t afford anything that my SO wanted to do.
Anonymous
100,000% this. If you were to take this trip solo, you’d pay for your own lodging plus your own flight. So if he pays for his own flight also, then I would pay for his upgrade. Then he pays for a few meals/activities, you pay for a few meals/activities.
For future trips as you get farther along in your relationship, start a joint bank account and everyone put the same % of your income into the bank for trips. (You could also do this right now, I guess, and just put money into a “pot” from which you budget everything from out of it. It will feel the most “equitable” if it’s the same percentage of income — but do what works.)
CountC
I am not your partner, so YMMV, but this kind of splitting would drive me nuts (as the person who makes more in relationships 90% of the time).
My comfort zone would be CountC pays for hotel and flights and SO pays for three meals and one activity, or whatever. The three meals and an activity would be more like hey, what do you think about me paying for XYZ and you paying for ABC and then go from there.
Small Law Partner
How long have you been together? I’ve always made about 3-4 times what my husband makes, so after we were together for a while and this was clearly a long term thing, I covered the lion share of vacation expenses and neither of us batted an eye or really even discussed it. Ymmv, as I would much prefer business class and staying at a higher end hotel/renting a condo and just paying for us both than a long economy flight and staying at a Courtyard or equivalent.
Anonymous
Ugh. This is why I don’t date men who make less than me. Such an awkward sitch. I’m jealous of your vacation though!
Anon
i know this was discussed a bit yesterday, but did anyone read Gorsuch’s opinion? i definitely am happy with the opinion, and i appreciate his creativity in couching it textualism, but i don’t know if i would call it textualism in the traditional sense. thoughts?
Anon
Yeah, I think it’s a bit of a stretch on the textualism side and that there will be future clashes on the definition of sex. We definitely haven’t seen the last of this.
Airplane.
Worried about the religious freedom paragrphs, this was NOT an issues raised on appeal, so obvious that Gorsuch is providing a roadmap to future challenge to this rule so he can give religious exception. “My religion prevents me from hiring a man married to another man, and the government can’t interfere” BS.
Anon
Also, anyone else chortling that Gorsuch delivered such a blow to conservatives who previously crowed about the successful theft of Garland’s seat? Karma’s a b*tch. Who knows what will happen in the future, but I’m going to enjoy this moment now and I’m not sorry.
Anonymous
Gorsuch signaled pretty hard during oral arguments that he would side with plaintiffs, I am so pleased he did. IMO, even though stealing Merrick Garland’s seat was unconscionable, at least Gorsuch was otherwise qualified to be a Supreme Court justice, and under normal circumstances would have been a great pick by a Republican president. Brett Kavanaugh, on the other hand, who consistently fails to engage in the facts and law both during oral arguments and in his written opinions, never was. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Anonymous
Agreed. And having met Gorsuch on a few occasions, he is also a decent human being and exceptionally intelligent and intellectual. Not so sure about Kavanaugh. Doesn’t seem like he is exceptional in any positive way or a particularly good person.
SF in House
Thanks for the DC pie recommendations last week. I sent a cherry pie from Pie Sisters and the recipient was thrilled! If anyone can help with a similar recommendation for Salem, MA, I’d really appreciate it!
Anon
I grew up near Salem and spent a lot of my life in the North Shore, and my sense is that this is a tough ask. You might want to look into a good pie place and have taskrabbit deliver it.
Anon
i know people on here have talked about starting to fly again. my mom booked a flight to come visit us, but is now probably going to cancel. a close family friend works for the largest pilot union and apparently a number of pilots have tested positive for covid, but it has been kept out of the media since airlines are eager for people to feel comfortable flying again. while airlines are starting to enforce their mask policies more strictly, they are very hard to enforce and are eager for some national mask rules that have some penalty behind them, and a lot of people are not wearing them properly on planes.
Anon
There’s no way I would fly right now. The New York Times ran an article exposing how airlines are talking a big game about the steps they’re taking, but they’re not actually enforcing mask wearing at all – flight attendants have been instructed not to. There are a lot of dodos who are showing up without masks and they’re allowed to board the flights as usual.
Anon
I saw that NYT article but it does not match what I’ve seen in person. I wonder if it’s like their Style section, where three instances of something make a trend.
Anon
I hope so…
Anonymous
Sorry for slightly hijacking the topic, but who are these people traveling all over the US now? I live minutes from a regional airport (BWI) and on my half-hour walk Sunday evening, I counted 6 Southwest planes and two other airline planes flying in/out of the airport. (I also spotted another plane that was way up higher so probably from IAD or DCA.)
anon
My parents took a flight to visit us a few weeks ago. They wore N95 masks. The flight was about an hour, so they spent probably 90 minutes on the plane. The middle seats were left empty, but the plane was otherwise pretty full. They said the other passengers were wearing masks, but I’m not sure it was 100%, and who knows if every passenger on the flight before theirs and the one before that was also wearing a mask.
Anon
I flew recently and it was fine. There were way fewer people in the airport, but that number is probably continuing to increase. Everybody on the flight wore masks and the middle seats were empty. It was actually the most pleasant flying experience I’ve had in a long time because there were so few people everywhere.
Anonymous
Same, except the bars were closed in my layover airport :’(
anon
This was my experience as well. I flew out of ATL for a permanent relocation last week and it was comparatively empty until you get to your gates. People didn’t wear their masks all the time inside the airport, but they did most of the time, and I saw high compliance on my plane. The only issue I experienced was that no one social distanced when it was time to deplane. Everyone stood up right up against each other like pre-covid. Some folks in the back even pushed ahead to leave before people in front of them were up and out.
Airplane.
I’m going to book a flight shortly for a parent’s funeral. This is one list of maybe 3 things I’d fly for right now, but there are risks that are just worth it.
The Original ...
<3
Anom
I’m sorry for your loss.
Marie
I am sorry for your loss.
Ses
So sorry for your loss.
Senior Attorney
So sorry to hear this. Stay safe!
Small Law Partner
In late June/early July, I have to fly from the west coast to Texas for a trial, and then do a 5 day in-person jury trial. Our JOINT motions to postpone the trial or do the trial remotely were denied. I would not be doing this for vacation or on a more voluntary basis.
Anon
That’s insane. I’m in NYC and we have no hopes for juries anytime soon, definitely not this summer. I can’t imagine anyone would actually show up if they summoned jurors right now.
Way anonymous
I’m flying on Friday. I’ll report back.
Anon
My in-laws flew last week. They said masks were required to board the plane (almost everyone had one, but the airline had some just in case) and that the flight attendants were going up and down the aisles reminding you to wear your mask unless you were actively eating. Compared to flight attendants, pilots have very minimal exposure to passengers – they stay in an enclosed cabin for the duration of the flight. Tens of thousands of people are testing positive for COVID every day in the US, so the fact that some pilots are among them doesn’t mean that the plane is the source, they may be picking it up in the community.
Celebrating a deal today
I just learned that a project where I contributed the financial analysis has had the other party accept a deal, and it means my company will get 20 mUSD directly into the profit line. Woah, and woohoo! Bring out the champagne!
AnonATL
Since no one has replied to you yet..
Congrats!!! It’s so nice to get a big win in this crazy world. Make sure to tuck this one away when annual reviews/raises start happening again.
Ses
Whoop! congrats!
Anonymous
Congrats!
Hildy
Congrats!
Anonymous
People with a balcony where it gets snowy (e.g. NYC/Boston/Chicago), how do you have your balcony decorated? I am moving somewhere with a 5×10′ balcony and I’m wondering what material would be best for a little bistro set / pair of chairs and coffee table. Would an outdoor rug be a terrible idea? Fake plants? I’m really excited about this, but want to make sure everything can survive bad weather!
Faux/plastic plants OP
Lols. I posted about faux/plastic plants yesterday and everyone was like “try real plants”, so I don’t have any recommendations.
I had an outdoor rug last summer and it didn’t last through the winter (I live in Jersey City, NJ). I have string lights (they turn on/off the same time every day) and a little folding table from REI (camping table, but looks pretty nice and resistant to the elements). Same with the chairs.
Anonymous
What material are the chairs?
Faux/plastic plants OP
Aluminum
Anonymous
I had a balcony in Boston, and the chairs came inside during winter weather. Wooden table stayed outside but needed to be repainted periodically ( I really enjoyed painting it so I considered the weather damage a feature, not a bug). The plants I had outside were annuals, so their pots stayed out in the winter and I bought new flowers in the spring. In the winter sometimes the snow piled up so high on the balcony that I couldn’t even open the door, and for obvious reasons the building had rules about shoveling snow off the balcony. So mine was essentially useless in the dead of winter and decorations were irrelevant for the winter months.
Anonymous
At my old condo, I had a fake grass rug, as did a few of my neighbors. It stayed out all winter. I also had a bistro table and chairs that were iron and wood that I folded up so I could store them in my storage area. Cushions stored in storage. Others would just put covers over their furniture. Grill stayed out all year with a cover. Avoid anything teak furniture-wise and concrete planters and you should be fine. I also used to put window boxes on my railings. So many flowers. I miss my own little spot of heaven. I’m now in the suburbs with a massive yard with lots of ivy that is too darn time consuming to fight and haven’t planted anything in ages.
NYC Girl
Your best bet is to store furniture indoors in the winter or to get high quality covers for it. Even metal furniture will take a beating in the snow. I always store my outdoor furniture cushions inside when I’m not using them so they stay dry and clean (even in summer). For plants, most perennials should last fine through the winter, but annuals should be planted in late May and taken out before first frost. Rug may be ok but I would definitely store inside during winter. Enjoy!
Anon
We bring our outdoor stuff inside during the worst of the winter and put it in storage. All of the things you described are on my balcony right now and generally from April-October.
Anon
I don’t have a specific recommendation , just a tip to make sure whatever you get is easy to clean. I have a balcony and everything gets so dirty out there so quickly, we rarely use it.
Anon
My balcony has a room (another balcony on top) and side walls (one is a building wall and one divides it from the neighbor’s balcony). There’s also a tree in front. Because of this and how the wind blows I guess, barely any rain or snow actually get on my balcony, so my furniture from last summer was entirely fine out all winter long. But everything did need a very thorough cleaning this summer.
Anon
I cover my furniture in the winter.Rug I roll up and take inside.
Anonymous
Does anyone do doggy daycare and have their dog picked up/dropped off from their home? How much does it cost you per month?
notinstafamous
$40/day, service is provided from our current dog walker. She picks him up between 8-10 and drops him off between 4-6. He goes with her on a couple walks and then chills out at her place with the other “all day” dogs. We do it two days a week, the rest of the time he just gets an afternoon walk ($17/hr).
Anonymous
My dog goes about once a week for socialization. Our doggy daycare is open 24/7, which is amazing for when I have a long day and don’t know what my schedule will be. They have daily, weekly, and monthly packages. It is $32 a day, $150 a week, or $375 for unlimited for the month. This is the cost for the daycare when you drop off and pick up yourself. They will also pick up your dog at your home and drop the dog back at your home at the time you specify. I don’t use this added service often — usually just in an emergency situation but it works great. Mine charges an extra $10 to drop off and pick up per day. However, keep in mind that the cost varies by geographical location and the cost varies greatly based on the provider. There is one in my area that is half the price but I would never leave my dog there.
Anon
I did when I lived in Boston. It was $30/day for the daycare and $15 for roundtrip pickup/dropoff. I had a puppy and was in biglaw, and my dog went 3x a week to get all her wiggles out. It was about $900 a month when I included midday walks on the other two days a week. If you’re in Boston, highly recommend Crate Escape or Red Door. My current dog (also a puppy) is much more mellow and doesn’t need daycare or walks at all and is litter box trained (only 18 lbs) –she’s much cheaper. GL!
Anonymous
CapHillStyle recently recommended PediPerfect (a callus remover thing). Has anyone tried this? Does it work? I feel like dry, gross feet are just something I’m always going to live with…
NYC Girl
Try Amlactin foot cream (lactic-acid based) or Kerasal (note: Kerasal is not pregnancy safe due to salicyclic acid). Both have to be applied nightly for about a week (I wear socks), and then once a week or so to maintain. Works wonders to exfoliate and also hydrates dry toenails really well.
Sash
I have it and it’s great! I had pretty low expectations going in, but it works really really well. It grinds my gross heel calluses into dust.
Anon
I have it and it genuinely works. I do it after taking a bath.
Ribena
More good news – a high school friend has had a baby! This is the first one from my group of friends so it’s very exciting. I was getting really worried because I knew she was due in May, but the family of three all seem to be doing fine! Have sent a card and need to get knitting!
Anon
Yay!
Senior Attorney
Hooray for new babies!
anon
I need recommendations for literal beach reads — as in, good stories that are set in a beach town/setting. Things feel tough right now, and I’m looking for escapism! I’ve read Elin Hilderbrand in the past, and her books are very hit or miss for me.
Anonymous
Try Beatriz Williams
Ses
I liked Beautiful Ruins, by Jess Walter. It is set in a fictional Italian beach village near Cinque Terre. It’s light and enjoyable, and history-adjacent.
Blurb: “He begins in Italy in 1962, when a beautiful American actress appears in a remote Italian fishing village, and he leaps forward to modern day Hollywood”
Anon
+1, but beware it will make you plan a trip to Italy, which is especially frustrating right now.
Anon
*make you want to plan a trip, that is
Ses
haha that is an actual risk and it happened to me. I found it particularly fun to imagine the 6th village when I was on the train to visit the first 5.
Anonymous
Hello, Summer by Mary Kay Andrews.
Camino Island and Camino Winds by John Grisham
Ribena
There’s a new romance book out called Beach Read which looks lovely. I will always recommend Victoria Hislop’s The Island – although it does deal with leprosy so maybe not ideal just now?
anon
I’ve been asked to teach some tech training seminars via Zoom. Advice or best practices?
Anon
The Professor is In had some good resources back in March if you want to check back.
Anon
Oooh somebody here recently posted a top-level comment full of really good Zoom tips. I think in the last two weeks? Sorry I can’t be more helpful than that, but I’d try to find that comment and thread!
Anon
Does anyone here live where there is a mask mandate at either the local or state level? I’m on my town’s city council and lots of people have asked that we implement one. My thinking so far has been that a mandate will politicize masks and make people actually *not* wear them, but maybe I’m too afraid of that reaction? I live in a relatively progressive area of an otherwise very red state. Our town has not had much COVID at all (at least so far) so I think a lot of people feel very complacent.
Anon for This
Yes both Minneapolis (where I live) and St. Paul have this, and certain stores have a company-wide policy. It seems like compliance is better than it would be without the requirement, but definitely not 100%. DH works in an outer suburb where some of his colleagues tell him that they are actively avoiding establishments that require masks. *sigh*
NY CPA
Yes. NJ has one for inside retail stores, but I was in a CVS the other day and the employee had hers pulled down, even when she came to help me get something inside a locked case and was clearly within 6 ft of me. NY state has one for any time you are not maintaining social distancing in public, and I’ve seen plenty of people (including the police in NYC and Westchester) break that one. Unfortunately, people seem to kind of ignore them on the whole.
Anon
Virginia has mandated masks. I see about 65% compliance in my Trump area. Most customers are wearing them, but mostly it’s the clerks who are not.
Anonanonanon
This is interesting because I’m in the blue section of Virginia and I would say compliance is far below 65%! It’s a mandate but he specifically said law enforcement will not be enforcing, so it has no teeth because there is no one to enforce.
Anon
Yes, San Francisco has one. It’s better than nothing, although there are always people who won’t comply no matter what. I don’t think we should make laws with them as the baseline.
Anon
I think mandates help businesses that want to keep their employees safe by enforcing mask wearing by customers. I’d do it for that reason, as most employees don’t have a lot of choice in the situation.
Anon
This. I’m in Florida and avoid Publix because the customers are so notoriously entitled and management won’t force them (kick them out if they refuse) to wear masks.
Anonymous
Chicago here. We have it at local and state level, people are very compliant IMO.
Anon
i wish that we could have one locally but our state governor won’t let locales make their own rules. what is the penalty for non compliance? you need something bc people otherwise probably won’t comply. i wish this mask thing hadn’t become such a mess. seems like if there had been a more consistent clear message from leadership earlier on that wearing masks would help us resume a more ‘normal’ life, people would be more compliant
Horse Crazy
For my area, if you violate any part of the shelter in place order, which includes wearing masks at businesses, it’s a $1000 fine.
Horse Crazy
Yes, central coast of CA – very blue. You will be turned away from businesses if you aren’t wearing one, including outdoor businesses, like a farmer’s market. I’ve seen almost everyone being compliant, except over the weekend when a group of people protesting the mask order barged into a grocery store without masks – they had to shut the store down and kick them all out. Our beaches are also closed from 11 am to 5 pm every day, which is making people very mad – it’s mostly to prevent tourists from coming, but it doesn’t really work because our police/state parks don’t have the capacity to enforce it, so the beaches are filled with people every day who are not wearing masks.
Anon
I live in a red state and face coverings in public are actually technically illegal here because of the KKK. That said, our governor is more pro-mask than a lot of Republicans – he talks in most of his press conferences about how masks are important and will help us get back to normal life faster while keeping people from getting sick. Businesses can require them, although I’m not sure how many do because I haven’t really been patronizing many businesses in person. When we go to the grocery store, most people including us are in masks. Most people (including me) don’t wear masks outside in situations where you can keep a good distance from other people. I always have a mask with me though in case it gets more crowded and I have trouble distancing.
Anon
We have a mask mandate at the state level for certain businesses that are re-opening. I still see a lot of people not complying. I’m tempted, for a store worker, to ask them to put on their mask properly before I will approach them but it has become such a heated issue here that I’m afraid to start some kind of confrontation.
Anon
I’m in DC, and there is a requirement to wear masks when inside any store. Stores where stationing people at the door to enforce it the first two weeks or so, but I don’t see that anymore and they just have signs saying that masks are required. I don’t recall seeing any people without masks in stores here, so it has had an impact. But DC is so liberal, that it is probably one of the locations where people are the most likely to accept such a requirement.
DoesntBelongHere
Low- to mid-heels wearers: I’m trying to figure out a problem with my toe/foot that happens when I wear heels around 2 inches. About every ten steps or so, I feel a “zing” through my second toe that seems to start in the ball of my foot. It goes away almost instantly but is annoying and briefly a little painful. It’s like a sharp tingling that happens as I step onto the floor. I’d like to wear heels more often and especially low-ish heels, so this is frustrating. It happens even when the shoe is otherwise very comfortable. Anyone else have this weird thing? Thanks!
Anonymous
That’s how my hammertoes started. Can you get an insole with metatarsal support, just to kind of spread out the toes a bit? Also are your shoes too narrow? I had to go to wides once it all started.
Anon
+1, I need to make sure there is enough room in the toe box. Even Cole Haan athletic shoes, which are very comfortable, are slightly too narrow for true comfort. I can’t really wear a wide because I have very narrow heels, so I just don’t wear any shoes that aren’t roomy enough.
DoesntBelongHere
Interesting, I will look into it! I think most of my foot is narrow, so it’s possible I am actually choosing shoes that are too narrow for my toe box.
Ses
Sounds exactly like a morton’s neuroma. A podiatrist can advise about options, which for me involved either steriods or surgery. I chose to deal with it by not wearing heels and it has gone away, but there are shoes that cater to this problem as well. I’ll post a link to a great free e-book by a doctor about this.
Ses
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mortons-Neuroma-Podiatrist-Patient-Journey-ebook/dp/B077R4VR6S
DoesntBelongHere
Whoa thank you! Downloaded it.