Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Rib-Knit Peplum Sleeveless Top
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Thanks to Kat for finding this fun sleeveless top from H&M! Some people have strong feelings about peplums, but I really like this button-up version. The flared silhouette gives a great shape, and the olive color is beautiful.
Of course, bare arms are going to be a know-your-office situation, but I would wear this on a summer Friday with some slim pants and flats.
The top is $29.99 at H&M and comes in sizes XXS-XXL.
Looking for more? Going sleeveless at work is still a know-your-office situation, but much more accepted than previously. As of 2025, some of our favorite sleeveless tops include ones from Anne Klein, Calvin Klein, Amazon seller Milumia, and Vince Camuto — Elie Tahari's silk one is also lovely.
Sales of note for 7/15/25:
- Nordstrom – The Anniversary Sale is open for everyone — here's our roundup!
- Ann Taylor – Semiannual sale, extra 50% off sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – 40-60% off everything + extra 50% off clearance
- Boden – 10% off new womenswear with code
- Eloquii – Limited time, 100s of styles starting at $9
- J.Crew – End of season cashmere sale, take 40% off select cashmere
- J.Crew Factory – All-Star Sale, 40-70% off entire site and storewide and extra 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Rothy's – Up to 50% off seasonal faves, plus new penny loafers and slingbacks
- Spanx – End of season sale
- Talbots – All markdowns, buy 2 get 1 free, on TOP of an extra 40% off (last day is 7/15)
I don’t understand the peplum hate, they’re so flattering and forgiving.
I agree, I like a good peplum. I bet this one would show br*a straps though.
I agree, though prefer the modern peplum (more of a swingy tunic) to the version from 15 years ago (more tutu-like poofed pleats).
When I think peplum I think the tutu like poofed pleats. This does look much better.
Agree that it depends on how…severe?…the shape is. I like a slight one.
This makes sense. I also think there’s an element of where the peplum hits. If you have a short/long torso and the peplum hits too low/high it can also throw off the look.
I hated peplum 15 years ago. I was 15lbs heavier and felt that the short flare accentuated my belly. I’d probably wear them now, but I feel our pant rise is higher now, so it might look better.
I think it depends on your shape. I’m short waisted and very busty and am not sure this would work for me.
+1. Especially because I have no hips, so it would just be sticking out over nothing. Completely ridiculous look on me.
I actually think people with straight hips look good in peplums because then, now you have hips. I on the other hand am pear-shaped and would love to give some of my hips to you — to me, a peplum just adds more volume and i tend to avoid them. This tunic-style version looks nice and I could see wearing it over a fitted tee shirt
That’s the perfect shape for a peplum! I think you just aren’t used to the proportions.
+1. My waist/hip area is one of my best features, so peplum makes me look much bigger
I didn’t like peplums until I hit perimenopause. Now, yes please.
I only hate them because I’m tall and busty and they start way too high on me unless I’m in a tall size!
I am very long-waisted and have no idea how a properly fitted peplum would look on me. Garments with peplums tend to run even more short-waisted than other garments. They make me look like a cartoon hippo wearing a tutu.
Definitely a know your body thing! They look great on some people but terrible on me and my body shape. I wanted to love them in the early 2010s when they were ubiquitous, but couldn’t get them to work then and they look worse on me now…
I also love a peplum! I don’t like the ones that flare out but one like this is gorgeous.
Paging the Vail client event poster – how’d it go?
Looking for feedback on the cezanne treatment or other options. I’ve hit my mid 40s and my formerly straight hair now has a wave and is much frizzier. Anyone else have this experience and anny advice on whether cezanne treatment will help manage it? Other ideas?
Personally, I’m a big fan of learning how to work with the hair I have instead of chasing the hair I wish I had (or used to have).
Have you tried anything like the HASK keratin shampoo and conditioner? They also have a keratin deep conditioning mask. I went through a spell where my frizzy, dry, unhealthy hair loved all the protein I could give it. As those parts grew out it was all too heavy for the healthier hair, but that newer hair doesn’t require nearly as much maintenance or product to look nice.
I have formerly straight, now frizzy/wavy hair, and am recently obsessed with Color Wow Dream Coat. I honestly can’t believe how well it works. I’m in NYC, which has been completely miserably humid and sweaty recently, and normally my hair just poofs even if I blow dry and hair spray. But I can actually wear my hair down and have it look good with this stuff!
Also, good to know is that you have to use a *ton* of product. Truly saturate the hair so it’s dripping. And you have to heat style, because it’s heat activated. But it lasts 3-4 shampoos, so even the small bottle has lasted me a month.
I’ve started using this recently and I don’t find it any different than other anti-frizz product. I’ve been super underwhelmed and my hair still frizzes a bit (in DC area, so super humid lately). Maybe I’m just not using enough?
I’ve seen mixed reviews online so I’m not sure if it just doesn’t work for everyone, or if it’s about technique. Here’s what I do:
Start with towel dry hair, put half up. Grab a chunk of hair and spray it root to tip, holding the hair with one hand so I’m spraying into my palm essentially. I spray ~6-8 pumps per chunk. Repeat, taking down the top section. All hair is now dripping wet. I’m using maybe 1/4 of the small bottle per use. Comb through to ensure product is distributed everywhere. Rough blow dry to get the hair ~50% dry, then dry the rest of the way with a round brush, making sure to dry the hair 100%. Sometimes I’ll run a warm flat iron over it at the end, but I usually don’t. I then finish with a spray of Living Proof Instant Defrizzer. Every morning I’ll do another quick spray of the Living Proof Defrizzer.
Not a treatment, but try Paul Mitchell Skinny Serum before blowdrying. It works wonders in cutting down the frizz and making everything smoother.
I have very thick, coarse, frizzy hair and I like it. It is not quite as smoothing as traditional keratin but the health concerns are less serious.
With a lot of product and proper blow drying I can make my untreated look great – but it takes a lot of time and it really only looks good for one day. Cezanne gave me wash and wear hair with minimal effort.
I understand the theory behind learning to deal with the hair you have but I do not have the time or inclination to spend 30 minutes every day (even with a Dyson) styling my hair and my hair is a frizzy disaster otherwise. But since everyone’s hair is different I suggest you try it and see if you like it. It is not forever if you do not think it is worth the time, effort and money.
I need some new sneakers for walking and around town. Are there any Kizik models that have good arch support for high arches? I’ve been disappointed with Hokas (the last ones I bought) and I’m intrigued by the convenience of my husband’s Kiziks, but I need more arch support than he does.
I have medium arches but like the New Balance 327s (they got super super trendy for awhile and I think are past peak, but love them anyway)
I have two pairs of Kiziks (the Prague 2 and the Irvine) and find them very middle-of-the-road for arch support, but generally comfortable. I will probably add an arch support insole when I get a chance. Their insoles are easy to remove.
I’ve been really happy with my On Clouds – the 6 model – they are laced but function like a slip-on, and have good cushioning and arch support.
My husband who refuses to tie his shoes likes these. You can put insoles in them for more arch support.
I love my Kiziks, I have flat feet and find them to have good arch support.
I also have high arches and I wear Karhu brand sneakers. They’re very comfortable and supportive!
Has anyone rented a small house on a beach in New England and have any recommendations? I was thinking Maine / New Hampshire etc area – maybe Feb / March time period. I’ve always wanted to and due to some personal events, the next year would be great. I’m just not entirely sure where to start – I live in the southeast, so looking on Airbnb is like looking at a whole other world. I’d probably like to drive to bring my dog, so it doesn’t necessarily have to be near an airport. Is this the kind of thing a travel agent could help with? Airbnb or VRBO?
I think you can use vrbo but know that a lot of houses up there aren’t winterized, so inventory will be limited. Also in Maine at least, outside of major cities, so many businesses shut for the winter. My knowledge is mostly about Bar Harbor/Acadia but like 90% of restaurants are shut at the time of year.
You might start by checking how seasonal the towns are — like New England beach communities are not a hot ticket in icy windy extra-bone-chilling-because-of-the-ocean winter, so some restaurants etc. may close for the winter depending on where you are.
if your goal, FWIW, is finding a proper snowy winter, that can be a complete c-pshoot – you might get blizzards or you might get a mild rainy mess depending on the whims of the weather. Mountains would be more reliable for this; think somewhere like Stowe?
Stowe has a very cute downtown too with inns/smaller Air BnB’s – that’s our ‘compromise’ ski town as I don’t ski but my family does. They pick up the bus downtown and I wander the shops and walk through the lovely (very snowy!) parks.
I’m the anon who replied at 9:50, but I want to really emphasize Cat’s point. I live in a famous resort area, and we have fewer than a quarter of the restaurants open in the winter. The ones that do skew heavily to the locals – a couple of coffee shops, some local taverns, etc. Nothing fancy, no fast food, and the nearest chains are 30+ minutes away from the beaches.
+1. I really cannot imagine renting a beach house in a NE town in the winter.
That being said, we have friends who live in Kennebunkport year-round, and it is ok. Lots of tourist places are seasonal close in the winter, but there is a decent population that lives there year round, so it might be manageable. But it would still be a very, very different experience than being there in the summer or even the fall though.
I live in a beach town in New England. Winter is my favorite time for the beach up here, but I’m pretty unique in that, even among people who live in my town year-round. Just checking that you know it is likely to be 10 – 30 degrees and snowing in Feb/March! With that caveat out of the way, I’d reach out to a real estate agent (look for the local agencies in the Realtor.com or Zillow listings) in the towns you are looking at – many of them handle winter rentals or will know someone who does. Owners typically try for Oct – March, but if you start looking after October, there will be people who are willing to rent for a month.
Girl – are you sure you want to be there during that time?? A lot of the beach houses and towns completely shut down for the winter. My family has a lake house in NH that is not winterized. It’s basically inaccessible during the winter because of the snow and most of the local restaurants and shops either close for the season or operate on very reduced hours. I think Airbnb will be your friend here but just know what you’re getting into. Mountain cabins may be a better option for that time of year.
Having learned this lesson the hard way (recently, during the summer!), make sure you have a vehicle that can actually handle a mountainous driveway that may have snow or ice patches.
Uhm, I say this as someone who lives in MA. Why would you want to come to New England in Feb/March? That’s when we all try to get the heck OUT of here to see the sun. I literally got windburn this past Feburary in Boston during the 10 minute walk from the T to my office, and the following day was a super fun mix of snow, sleet, and frozen rain!
Unless you’re ok driving in bad weather (ice, snow, sleet), are prepared for very little sunlight, and serious cold/wind I’d just rent a beach house in Georgia or the Outer Banks or something for the semi-desolate windswept vibes while not actually freezing your behind off.
Or mid-Atlantic! OP, look at Rehoboth. It’s a very cute town with many restaurants open year-round, dog friendly beaches, winter but not New England winter.
I’d rent this in a heartbeat, great location and pet friendly.
https://www.airbnb.com/l/mCe7MTxQ
Another person who loves New England beach towns in the winter, but cautions you to make sure you know what you’re getting into. Most businesses will be shut, and roads will be snowy and icy. There will be days the temp is in the single digits or teens. Coming from the south you probably think of March as spring, but it is firmly winter in New England. Even April isn’t really spring.
We usually take a warm-weather vacation in March (coming from MA). You can juuuuust start to see some plants coming up when we return (end of March) which helps me mentally with the idea that spring is on the way. However snow in April is not at all uncommon!
And in coastal southern Maine, we didn’t have full size leaves on the trees until the last week of May this year – which is not unusual! We were a good 4 – 6 weeks behind Boston.
Show in May is not uncommon!
There was a freak snowstorm the morning of commencement at my college in MA the year before I graduated. In May. My parents were horrified and could not believe all of us walking around in sun dresses in 65 degree weather earlier that week. It was a particularly bad winter that year and we were so, so happy to see the sun when it did arrive.
My birthday is in early May and it snowed on my birthday 3 out of my 4 college years in Boston. I think that was unusual even at the time (and probably even less common these days due to climate change) but it was so frustrating!
What are you even supposed to do if your CEO is having an affair with the Chief People Officer? And the Head of HR, at the very least, is aware of it and doesn’t care? There’s not really anything other employees could do right? Can’t report HR to HR
Why would you report it anyway? It’s horrible for their spouses and kids but I don’t think it’s really the business of lower level employees if two execs are sleeping together.
Usually the CHRO would report to the CEO, making this more of an issue…
Executive level affairs make things very toxic for those below them because they’re always together and are not at all impartial. It’s very hard to deal with professional issues when there is such a huge personal bias.
Wasn’t an executive affair during a merger involved in McDonnell Douglas’s management coup and the start of Boieng’s decline?
It’s a problem because it exposes the company to liability (eg. accusations of retaliation & sexual harassment if one exec breaks it off), because it undermines trust in decision making (exec A’s department was exempt from cost cutting measures; was that truly because they’re business critical, or because of the relationship); and because it adds complication for their reports’ (eg. if I need my department head to speak up for me to department head B, but I know they’re in a clandestine relationship, I’m going to be much more hesitant to ask).
It’s true that practically speaking, there’s little a lower level employee can *do* about a situation like this (other than leave the company), but it’s fair to acknowledge that it likely impacts them negatively, and it’s their business in that sense (as opposed to something truly not-their-business, like a random pair of neighbors being in an affair)
Is this in response to the Coldplay incident? LOL. What a journey that’s been.
Did you read the ‘apology’ letter? Essentially blaming Coldplay for putting him on blast.
I thought that was posted by a parody account.
That was a fake letter/statement.
Oh does anybody have a link??
It was fake.
Yea I’m pretty sure the apology letter circulating is fake.
This is the kind of drama I’m so glad we have the internet for…the memes about the Coldplay affair are getting me through the day
IDK how we can know that someone doesn’t care, truly. In this instance or others. We had this situation at work and my ex-BIL did this where he worked and IMO everyone knows and IMO no one is going to stick out their neck b/c they don’t want their job or career to be what winds up being burned by other people making bad decisions.
The only exception I can think of is in the military, where they actually have rules, everyone knows them, and enforcing them is part of people’s job (and not enforcing them jeopardizes a lot of jobs / missions).
I had a situation where, after I announced I was leaving, someone clued me in to the fact that our CEO was having an affair with the head of marketing. (I was a VP in another department.) It explained a whole lot of weirdness that I just hadn’t put together previously.
I chose to let the HR head know; she seems not to have done anything with that information. Not my circus, not my monkeys, but it made me VERY happy to be done with that company.
Not my circus is right.
You are probably not wrong, but it’s kinda sad that life and death situations are the only time when we can rely on ethical business practices actually being applied.
With the exception of Health Insurance executives. Amiright!?
Not a lot of ethics in health insurance, even when it’s life and death.
Well she was at. the concert with them
I worked somewhere (you all know the name of the company and likely have very fond feelings about it) where our CEO (the son of the company’s founder) was openly dating the CSO. At one point, I had a new boss (she was the level between me and them) and she remarked to me how odd their dynamic was and how complicated it was working with both of them. She kept saying they had a brother-sister relationship. I had to close my office door, look my brand new boss in the eyes, and say, “I don’t know how to say this so I will just say it. They have been together for several years. They live together. And I’m sorry you were hired to report to them both without being given that information.”
It is still one of the most surreal moments of my career.
Fast forward three years, he passed away (RIP, truly a great man — truly) and his sons were *shocked* to discover he had left his shares of the company to his CSO rather than to them. It was all over the press.
Ooh! Which company? Anyone have guesses / solved this one? My quick search is not finding anything
This is where the Board of Directors comes in to do an investigation. They will often form a Special Committee to do so, which will retain outside counsel.
Yup, remember the HP affair scandal?
Put your head down, maintain professionalism in all interactions. Welcome to my world. Bleah.
To answer your question, if it is a problem you report it to the Board of Directors.
But I will also say that while the adultery is obviously an issue for their personal lives, a lot of companies have no policy against this kind of thing. I worked for a firm where the (divorced) income partner was having an affair with his senior associate. I was very new to law firm life and fairly shocked when I found out during a pandemic zoom that they were living together (in fact I posted about it here), but it was never a problem as far as I know. I left to go in-house so no longer work with them but she has since made partner and they are still working together . So it is not always a disaster – although it certainly could be!
Minding your business is always a good strategy.
Practically speaking, you just ignore it and keep doing your job/leave for another job if there are other issues affecting you; unless you’re the GC or someone else with standing & responsibility to address it (and then you go to the board. If you don’t know anyone on the board to go to; you don’t have standing to address it; if you don’t trust anyone on the board to go to, you need a new job).
Orrrr you bribe the jumbotron operator :)
I am just waiting for the announcement that she has been fired.
Happened at a former workplace of mine!
Yeah, you know she’ll be out of a job before he will. Double standards.
They are not going to fire her. She might “leave to pursue other opportunities“ with a generous payout but she is not getting fired.
Firing the subordinate who has an affair with their boss while not also firing the boss works when the subordinate is a secretary. Someone at her level could and would create an even bigger public relations nightmare for the company.
+1
Thanks for whoever suggested Shark watches for my 12 y/o yesterday. They’ve been all over my feeds but I had no idea they were actually trendy. I showed my daughter and she said a bunch of kids have them and it’s exactly what she wants. So thanks trendy tween moms!
Looking at those made me feel ancient.
I love this because I was obsessed with my shark watch … in 1992!! I even got a shark band for my Apple Watch out of nostalgia.
Ladies,
If you backpack (say just a weekend trip), what is your pack weight, how much water do you carry, and what is your weight?
I’m short and weigh 130. A lot of backpacking forums are for men who are probably taller, heavier, and stronger. I’m working on stronger but trying to judge what is reasonable for someone my size. I’m probably more of a dayhiker but my teens want to do backpacking a few times a year and I need to train up for the next one.
There have never been more backpacking resources for women online, so I’d do a little more digging. I’m most comfortable with a pack under 25 lbs (I’m not there for a sufferfest). I carry the water that I will need before the first source is available and then I filter the rest.
I feel like this isn’t easy to me to find. I see a lot of very fit men who have been doing this since they were teens and must have flexible jobs and life responsibilities such they they are in top shape and do this a lot, but often for long treks in dry country (e.g., the thousands of Philmont-related discussions). But for older female office workers who are healthy but not training daily . . . I don’t see a lot of people who look like me in the woods. I’d say I don’t even see women of any sort often.
There’s a group called Women in the Wild (I think it’s a .net site) that you need to join to see the content, but they do everything from day hikes to week long hikes to lessons on kayaking and first aid and surviving in the wilderness. They have an active message board to ask questions. There are plenty of older women who belong to the group and who hike and camp. My sister teaches kayaking and water safety for them and has met a lot of her camping and kayaking buddies thru the programs. They are generally working age females although she also has a bunch of friends in the 70 -75 age range who still actively hike and camp. If you have a camping gear store near you they frequently offer short courses or one evening classes on various topics.
https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html
The internet tells me 20% of your weight max, but I thought the threshold was more like 30% when I was younger. Do the best you can. If you will be near water, don’t carry much, just purify/filter/treat, as water is heavy (8 pounds/gallon).
I try not to carry more than 1 liter of water at a time but this is very very location dependent (do you know where your next water source is). Water is heavy!
Even with beginner-type, cheap gear, you should be able to keep your pack base weight (IE, before you add food & water) pretty easily under 12 lbs per person. I ~can~ carry a lot more, up to ~50lbs ish, but note that you need a pack designed for heavy loads to do that safely
imo, carrying too heavy a pack is the fastest way to make someone have a miserable time on their first backpacking trip. Especially if you’re just going for an overnight, pick a weekend with good weather or somewhere you can bail & hike out if needed, and be ruthless in your selection of eg. “just in case” clothes. You can also test out your kit on a car camping dry run (pack up your backpack, day hike around with it, come back to your car campsite at night. You can bring extra gear and leave it in the car as a safety net, but the goal is to figure out if you can be comfortable with just the stuff in your backpack)
I tend to go on longer trips that have more technical climbing involved, but I’d say my pack will weigh anything from 25 lbs to 40 lbs without the really technical stuff. I think if you train with 30 lbs you will be fine.
I have no one IRL to tell this to, so please accept my happiness and humble brag. After 3 years of being very sick I think my doctors have finally figured out the right combination of meds and correct diagnoses as I’ve been 95% symptom free all week. Now only if I didn’t waste this week at an office.
woot! that’s amazing!
I’ve been there before and this is a big deal; I’m so happy for you! Definitely make some bucket list plans for something that you’re now enabled to do and enjoy.
That’s wonderful – truly happy for you!
That’s amazing!!
Yay!
I’m on my way today for an MRI for my own mystery symptoms.
Hope you have an awesome feel great weekend !!
Oh that’s so amazing!! Congratulations!!
Great news.
I hope you can return to enjoying life soon.
That’s so wonderful and not a humble brag at all. So happy for you!!
This is awesome! Happy to hear you’re getting the care you need and it’s working.
Congrats! and give kudos on your courage, strength and perseverance for pushing through trying all the meds, the self advocacy I’d bet it took to get here, etc. Hope you have a great week!
This was wonderful to read. Doing a happy dance for you!
Wow, congrats!
Is anyone familiar with the OGL brand? They’re so cheap I don’t trust them but they look cute.
This is a question for older moms…and sorry if it seems a bit blunt. I’m about to leave the baby years and am pretty sure I’m done, but there’s a little niggling “what if”.
So: if your kids are grown and out of the house (or almost there), do you have any regrets about your family size, or are you totally content? Do you wish you’d had one more, or one fewer (not that you’d get rid of a kid, but in a general “life would be easier” way)?
Something jumped out at me in a Moms post yesterday, that it can feel like family size decisions come down to “logistics”. On the one hand, yes, you don’t want to run ragged and you need to be able to handle your family. But on the other, the logistics-intensive years are a bit of a blip in the course of a life, and I want a larger perspective when making these critical decisions. The philosophy of giving kids “every opportunity” never sat quite right with me, as there’s a lot to be learned through minor adversity (like taking turns and sharing rooms and setting budgets and all that), and I wonder if anyone thinks differently about resource allocation in retrospect.
My oldest is turning 10, so I know certain things get easier and others get harder as kids age. But I keep thinking about those future, lifelong relationships I’ll have with my kids, and they’ll hopefully have with each other
😬
Yah, I forgot
this board is a bit “ environmentally conscious” when it comes to talking about kids lol…
Feel free to scroll if this isn’t your jam!
No I love reading other people’s selfishness, it’s fascinating, like an anthropological study.
If you feel that strongly about the environmental impact of having kids, I hope you’re also skipping pets.
A medium dog eats meat every day, gets replaced every 10–15 years, and racks up thousands of pounds of CO₂ in a lifetime. Even adopted pets still consume, produce waste, and require resources.
If we’re going to treat reproduction as an environmental sin, let’s be consistent. No kids? Cool. But no pets either.
No pets, also no car, and vegan. Ready for the next gotcha!
I mean, having kids is a biological instinct. I don’t know why we get bent out of shape about providing the very best and most meaningful of anything. Kids are supposed to grow up, face adversity, OVERCOME IT, and become adults that have kids. I never saw it as sacred, just biological.
then let’s remind ourselves about the methodology of the study that started the notion of ‘having kids is an environmental crime’. They built a hypothetical family tree with a large number of generations (I want to say at least 10). Then they tallied up the lifetime emissions of each of those people, and argued that all those cumulative emissions are avoided if that one person at the root of the tree doesn’t exist. Which is just a ridiculous argument that I have chosen to ignore.
I wonder how the anti-procreation lobby thinks they are going to have Medicare and Social Security and health care workers in their old age.
Remember activation energy in chemistry class? It doesn’t matter how endothermic or exothermic the reaction is, if you can’t make it over the energy hump.
Same thing with having kids.
I love this analogy
You’re thinking through this in a reasonable way. Some commenter a few weeks ago said something along the lines of not wanting another kid to “take resources” from her first born and it hasn’t left my mind–I was so disturbed by it.
Kids should be allowed to make their way. Be loving and supportive and do the best you can, but it’s not on you to bleed yourself dry on their behalf. They have to learn to make it on their own and build their own resourcefulness. This is the kind of thing that lets a kid be great instead of stagnant.
I am the oldest of my siblings and my youngest sister is 15 years younger than me. We were not super close growing up – I was more the fun aunt than a sibling but we are really close as adults.
I did my fair share of babysitting in middle and high school. Then I was literally full time child care for a couple of summers in college because money was tight. This was part of being in a family (and one of the reasons that money was tight was because of the expense of my college education). It did not occur to me to resent it then and I still do not resent it now. When our dad was sick, my sister did the overwhelming majority of the elder care for months because she was local and told me that she was grateful for the opportunity to finally contribute because she had always been the baby. Helping each other is what family does and while balance needs to be maintained (for example my parents never kept me out of school for child care) expecting your kids to contribute it not a bad thing.
This!
10 years is quite a span for your kids to have a relationship with each other. Realistically you’re setting up new kid to take care of you and older sibling as you all age. I’d call it a day.
This sub thinks it’s fine to parentify older children.
People like to pretend that older kids are incapable of leadership, setting an example, and being an integral and *helpful* part of a family.
+1 While making kids serve as parents is never okay, giving kids responsibilities in the home and to the family is vital. Kids derive a sense of self-worth and purpose through being helpful (to their family, having a job, etc). The current approach to coddling our kids and making their lives too easy is contributing to the teen mental health crisis…
11:37, I agree 100 percent. And I have probably been guilty of letting my kids off the hook too much at times. Kids actually do benefit from contributing to the family in some way.
I’d long felt that some of the commenters here felt like Reddit was leaking, and calling this a sub corroborates that…
You can’t use the appropriate term without going into mod purgatory.
Parentification doesn’t require siblings. Parents who want to be helpless and over rely on their kids will do that whether there are other kids to take care of or not.
I think I am calling it a day – but it’s a Friday and I’m curious so just putting it out there. But I do not parentify my kids, full stop. I’m very aware of that. And I’m still in my 30s so not heading to the nursing home any time soon. I do take your point, though
It’s fine if you do. I’m an older kid in my 40s now and I took care of my younger siblings while my parents worked, went back to school, whenever. It was not the trauma-filled experience people like to pretend it is. It was my job as a part of the family. Kids should have jobs and family roles to fulfil. Otherwise who knows what kind of humans they turn into.
I agree with you. I babysat older siblings, and when my mom went back to work, I helped make sure they got out of the house in the morning. When I graduated from high school, it was my YOUNGEST sister who ended up taking on that role, believe it or not! I do not feel at all scarred from the experience.
Sheesh, that should’ve said babysat YOUNGER sibs.
I was parentified and it was not okay.
The way the problem manifested is that I did far too much work that wasn’t age-appropriate (eg, I was 16 and put in charge of my one year old sibling for overnights), and the frequency of jumping in was very high. One parent quit her job when I went off to college; it wasn’t possible for them to have two high-powered careers without me around to pick up the pieces.
The root of the problem was a lot of dysfunction, which I’m still sorting through over a quarter-century later.
I did a lot of taking care of my younger siblings as part of family responsibility when we were all kids and I didn’t resent it at the time — it was just what needed to happen. I have chosen not to have kids, though, because I arrived in my 20s feeling like I had changed all the diapers, done all the school pick-ups and homework supervision, and dealt with all the college admissions crap I ever wanted to do. I was absolutely done raising children and they weren’t even my own. I didn’t hate it at the time but I would never willingly re-enter that life. I am 4 years older than my closest sibling and 7 years older than the youngest, so it’s not even like we had a huge gap.
It’s such a rich people thing to worry about. I really roll my eyes every time it comes up.
But I know everyone loves to feel like a victim here, so…
I’m not saying it’s something you’d do intentionally, it’s just how things will work out in a functional family where there’s a sense of familial responsibility. And you should think hard about whether that’s fair to the kid you’d have today.
PS – I don’t think the issue is the oldest taking care of the youngest while growing up at all. It’s the youngest having a lot of responsibilities many years into the future for both their parents and their older sibling.
Nothing’s fair; this makes no sense.
A 10 year age gap is huge when you are kids, but closes over time. There is no reason to think that the younger kid would have to take care of the older one. Lots of 85 year olds are healthier than some 75 year olds.
OP, this took a turn you didn’t expect, I am sure. It is normal to “what if.” I wish I had one more child but we have a good relationship with our happy and healthy adult son.
I’m almost 8 years older than my sister. My parents made a point to parentify me more than my stubborn older sister know-it-all nature already made me. The age gap meant that we didn’t exactly play together when I went through my teen years, but we did stuff as a family, shared a lot of interests, and only one of us being a teenager at a time meant we didn’t ever have big blowup fights. We have an excellent relationship as adults. I know a set of brothers 14 years apart and they are becoming closer as adults. I don’t think you can really plan for a good sibling relationship and not sure there is a causality with the age gap.
ugh typo. My parents made it a point NOT to parentify me…
I don’t feel like 20 years of childhood (can be more like 25-30 if you have several kids with larger age gaps) is a “blip.” At all. It’s decades in the prime of your life. I can’t imagine gritting my teeth just to get through my kids’ childhood because of some future fantasy of a big Thanksgiving table.
(I know some people genuinely enjoy raising 3-4 or more kids and this post is not directed to them. It’s responding to the idea that you should white knuckle through childhood to have a lot of adult kids.)
+1. I made a similar comment below. It is not a blip, IMO!
+2. Also, there is no guarantee that you end up with a big Thanksgiving table full of adult children if you have 3-4 kids. Kids get married and go to in-laws house for holidays, kids travel over holidays, etc.
Conversely, my parents have exactly one living child and a full thanksgiving table. It’s because they are excellent grandparents, in-laws, friends and aunt and uncle. The thanksgiving argument is crazy to me from people who think they can obligate future adult kids to visit.
Yes, exactly!
I don’t think they are saying that the whole childhood is a blip. It’s the really logistically difficult years that are a blip.
What do you think are the really logistically difficult years? Because I think the general consensus on the moms page are that the tween and teen years are harder than the elementary years, which are in turn harder than the daycare years, in terms of both activity/social logistics and managing the emotional needs of the children. Ages 0-5 are in many ways the easiest years.
+1 to it not being a ‘blip’. I also bet a lot of women who chose not to have more are making a well informed decision based on what they now know about their partner. If I had a manchild husband I’d have to REALLY want multiple kids to be willing to take on all that labor solo plus manage an existing child.
Excellent point. My husband cooks and cleans up every night and is a full partner. I am coming from that POV and it’s a blind spot
I always, always wanted a daughter. It didn’t actually occur to me that I might have a boy instead. I now have two boys. We stopped there.
I have some friends who “kept going” until they got a girl (although I do think IVF was maybe involved) and every time they make an annoying post on FB about how their daughters mean so so much to them it annoys me. And I kind of wonder if we should have kept going. But I don’t really regret stopping. I’m not the best mom, not actually sure I should have had any. It feels like having a daughter just would have disappointed me if she wasn’t exactly a mini me, which is a lousy expectation to put on any child.
This is weird to me. I didn’t want a daughter (and thankfully didn’t have one) because I didn’t want any child to come along and be ME2.0. That would have horrified me.
Totally. I thought exactly the same way.
I have a daughter and at 10, she is very much not ME2.0. I am a responsible, dutiful, introverted oldest child. She is a spirited, creative, force of nature middle child. The only thing we have in common is a love of reading (but she only likes to read graphic novels at the moment and has rejected all my childhood faves except the Little House series).
I hoped for a daughter because adult women are normally closer to their parents than men are, and maternal grandmothers are normally more involved with the grandkids. (I know grandchildren aren’t a guarantee, and I won’t pressure my kid to have them.) I think I also just felt more comfortable with the idea of raising a girl because I had been a girl myself.
I didn’t expect, nor do I have, a mini me. At all. My daughter and I are polar oppos1tes personality wise and it’s awesome.
I’m sure I would have loved a son if I’d had one and I was 99% set on stopping at one kid no matter what. But it was a little easier to be one and done having had a girl, I think.
I feel like I have a lot of advantages from growing up a close knit, large family, and marrying into another one. That said, I think some of the people I know who grew up in small families or as only children are more community minded, better networked, and frankly put more effort into friendships? Big families sometimes are like centers of gravity that pull in people who aren’t actual relatives, and that is nice, but living near that center of gravity makes it easy to become a bit insular. So I think there are pros and cons to how things play out.
“Blip in the course of a life” –> yes, that is true, but it also will dominate your daily existence for several decades, so I don’t necessarily agree that’s a perspective to ignore. When I talk about logistics being a limiting factor, what I’m really talking about is having the time and ENERGY to parent in the way that I want to. I know myself and my personality; having more than two would’ve been a bad decision FOR ME, even though in theory I would like to have a bigger family. (I am the oldest of four.) These decisions are so personal that I think it’s hard to generalize.
Agreed. The OP is misconstruing or misstating the moms page comments by saying that people were arguing “don’t have more kids because logistics.” It’s not “logistics” in the sense of literally getting kids places on, it’s having the time and mental capacity and emotional bandwidth to be a good parent to all your kids. Which is extremely important.
This 100%. I have one kid in large part because of “logistics” as articulated by Anon at 11:47.
I hear you, but I also think you’re making a huge assumption that your kid would want to be parented in the way you prefer. Kids are different–some want to be left alone to do things their own way and some want to be super-coddled. I just work under the assumption that it’s all a toss-up.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting coddling your kids. You can have 1 or 2 kids and still give them plenty of space and freedom to become their own people. But OP is boiling a very nuanced idea (not having more kids than you have the emotional capacity for) down to “logistics” and that’s not really accurate. As lots of people are saying, the time when your kids live at home isn’t a blip in terms of either time (20+ years) or importance (the most formative years of your kids’ lives). It’s ok to know your own limits and know that you’re a happier, better parent to 1 or 2 than you would be to 3 or 4.
Believe me, I’m well aware of this. My two kids need to be parented very differently. But you don’t know that until they’re here. The intensity that one of my kids requires would not be doable if I had another with similar needs.
It’s also not a blip in the life of a child.
Can I challenge one part of your comment? I don’t think the difficult/formative years are a blip. I mean, yes, they are, in terms of as a portion of your life (maybe? it could be multiple decades!) – but they’re also building blocks for the future lifelong relationships. I think that’s the real danger of overextending yourself – that you won’t end up getting the full house and deep relationships because you just weren’t present enough to build it. Or that you’ll be so exhausted you won’t even be up for it yourself. I agree with you totally about minor adversity and setting budgets and things like that – I’m not trying to hand everything to my kids, at all – but I do think it’s important to be able to give each of your kids enough of your actual self. (And the number of kids you can do that for varies widely, but unfortunately I do know people who very clearly had more than they can handle in that way.)
Well said.
I am the oldest of four. All of my siblings had three kids. I had only two. While I sometimes feel sad that we don’t have the bigger family feeling, I also knew my limitations in terms of mental and emotional energy, as did my DH. At least one of my siblings seems to be really struggling with what’s actually required of parenting three kids, especially given some of her other personal limitations with health, work schedules, etc., and it’s not something to downplay.
All of this. We have three kids, and stopped there because that’s all we felt like we could parent in the way we want to parent. We do like to support the kids exploring their interests, so logistics are a challenge, sure, but not as much of a limiting factor as emotional energy, attention, and leaving enough reserves so we can show up the way we want to for ourselves, each other, at work, etc.
I struggled with this a lot as a family with 2 working parents in big jobs. I come from a family with 3 kids close in age and always pictured having 3 kids, but we ended up stopping at 2 kids. My pregnancies and babies were very difficult (I had a life threatening condition while pregnant with my first, neither baby slept through the night for at least a year) and the baby/toddler years while working full time and trying to be an involved parent basically broke me. I knew I just couldn’t handle 3 kids and be the involved parent I want to be without completely sacrificing my health and mental health.
Our kids are now 14 and 11, and I’m coming to terms that we made the right choice for our family. We still can barely make the logistics work with 2 working parents and 2 fairly independent older kids. As they have gotten older, I thought I would be less needed, but the opposite has been true – more activities in different locations, no simple drop offs at one school, emotional support, doctors/dentist/orthodontist appointments, summer camps, etc. I see this continuing until they go to college, and there’s no way we would’ve been able to juggle everything with another kid. Also, travel is easier to coordinate, we can leave them with grandparents without overwhelming the grandparents, we have saved up to pay both of their college tuitions, and they have a really close relationship with each other.
I’m mostly at peace with stopping at 2 kids and am super grateful that they are healthy and well adjusted. I feel like for us the 3rd would’ve been too much of a roll of the dice on all fronts.
Your second paragraph is all true. There is this idea that kids need you less as they get older, and that is not necessarily true at all! Beyond the logistics, they need YOUR presence and emotional support. Not someone else’s. In some ways, it is simpler when they’re younger and in daycare or elementary school!
I am very glad we stopped at two. I don’t think we could’ve handled more.
+1 “big kids, big problems; little kids, little problems” is a cliche for a reason.
Your babies needed you emotionally when they were babies, too.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that she emotionally neglected her babies?? You can say a teen is emotionally needier than a toddler (true) without saying a toddler doesn’t need love too.
It’s a fact that it’s much easier for other loving caregivers to swap in when kids are under preschool age. It doesn’t mean the parents are unnecessary at that age, but it’s much easier to outsource care in a way that’s not upsetting to the child or disruptive to the family when kids are babies and toddlers.
I guess we disagree about whether babies actually need their parents or not or whether “outsourcing” your infant’s emotional needs is okay.
The emotional needs of a baby are SO much simpler than the emotional needs of an older child. I am surprised that there is any disagreement about that.
Lololol you’re insane, Anonymous
I’m kind of with anonymous here. I don’t know if their needs are simpler, or if they are easier to miss/ignore? Like, there was just a post about someone’s 7mo old vomiting every night during sleep training and many people thought that was just fine. We would be much more attentive with an older kid, try to problem solve, etc
Simpler, sure, especially because they can’t communicate them to you. But no less real or sizeable.
You’re lying to yourself if you think it’s healthy to outsource the emotional development of a toddler to people who won’t be in their life in two years.
If nothing else, babies are easier simply because they sleep so much more. And letting your baby sleep 12-14 hours a day is not at all harmful to them- they need tons and tons of sleep for brain development. Plenty of elementary age kids only sleep ~9-10 hours a night, I need about that much sleep myself! When you no longer have multiple hours to yourself every night after your kids go to bed, life is a lot more exhausting. Fun, but exhausting.
And you’re dishonest for claiming that anyone here advocated for or condoned “outsourcing” your toddler’s emotional development.
As someone on the opposite side of this, I can confirm that at least in my experience the emotional needs of infants and toddlers emotional needs are way, way simpler than the emotional needs of tweens and teens. I am certainly not suggesting that babies and toddlers do not have emotional needs or that they should be ignored, but there is no question in my mind with respect to my own kids that they were much more complicated and required much more emotional energy and support from me as teenagers than as babies!
Someone literally said:
“ It’s a fact that it’s much easier for other loving caregivers to swap in when kids are under preschool age. It doesn’t mean the parents are unnecessary at that age, but it’s much easier to outsource care in a way that’s not upsetting to the child or disruptive to the family when kids are babies and toddlers.”
This person used the word “outsourcing” in describing caring for their child.
Your teens have the language skills and physical independence to communicate the needs in a way you’ll have to listen to. But the needs aren’t new; the skills and size are.
I said the thing you’re quoting and by “outsourcing” I meant like sending your kid to daycare or a nanny, which every working parent does. I didn’t mean you stop caring for your kid emotionally.
It’s a fact that it’s easier for alternate people (both family and paid caregivers) to provide help with younger children. Of course 4 year olds still need their parents, no one on this thread has said otherwise. But they also love playing games and doing crafts with people (relatives, teachers, babysitters) who are not their parents. As kids get older it becomes harder for non-parents to play as active a role in caregiving, because the child’s needs become things like homework help and navigating friend drama and it’s much more emotionally complex. The needs definitely; it’s not just a matter of how well they communicate their needs. I think it’s wild to suggest 3 year olds and 13 year olds have the same sorts of needs.
That should read “the needs definitely change”
I don’t understand this way of thinking. People interact all the time with others who are in their life only for a season. Parents do not just drop their kids off at daycare and then pick them up in 2 years…they’re still a consistent loving presence in the baby/toddler’s life. There’s plenty of research to support young children forming secure attachment styles and bonding with their parents even when they have full time daycare during the week. My kids adored their daycare teachers, and do not remember them at all now that they’re tweens…but that doesn’t make the love they felt for them at the time less real, and the “emotional development” they achieved during those years didn’t disappear when they no longer saw the teachers every day.
> People interact all the time with others who are in their life only for a season.
Surely you understand that a person who is with a baby/toddler 40-50 hours a week is different than, like, a soccer coach a 7 year old spends 3 hours a week with.
“like sending your kid to daycare or a nanny, which every working parent does.”
I don’t think every working parent does this. I actually don’t even think the majority of working parents do this, if you look at all class levels. Relying on family support, one person doing graveyard shifts, one or both parents going part time to facilitate coverage gaps – all of those are extremely common. Nannies also tend to be in a child’s life much longer than daycare workers, so they seem more akin to the other options I’ve listed than daycare does.
Oh for goodness sake! I thought it was clear that I was using “season” in the sense of the saying that people come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. Not a literal season in the sense of calendar or sports.
Sure. And if your 12 week old – 3 year old is spending 40-50 hours a week with people they’ll never see again, that’s less optimal than spending that time with people who will be in their lives forever. And that’s especially true for high turnover daycares.
Your kids need most of their care done by “lifetime” people, and that’s true at every age.
5:29, I am very interested to know whether you have any actual data supporting these claims you are making. Please share it if you do. Everyone agrees that babies need physical care and to be shown love. You seem to believe that babies should only be cared for and shown love by certain people, and that daycare employees don’t make the cut. I’m curious why you think that, because it doesn’t fit with my lived experience that babies and toddlers experience any lasting distress when they graduate from a beloved daycare teacher’s class. Children always know who their parents are (assuming their parents are also a source of a stable loving relationship), but having more trusted, loving adults in their lives is never a negative, and I have never heard of any evidence to suggest that high quality daycare stunts a child’s emotional development.
I’d also add that from strictly the standpoint of hours in a week, babies spend more waking time at home/with their family than in daycare, even if they’re there 40 hours per week. Toddlers may be about even once they are reliably sleeping through the night.
By all means, you can choose family only care for your children if that is what feels right to you, but claiming that paid childcare somehow damages young children is both hurtful and (as far as I am aware) factually incorrect.
I feel like having young kids is very physically exhausting, and having older kids can be very emotionally exhausting.
I didn’t like surviving for days and days without a full night of sleep because of babies and toddlers. Getting them in and out of car seats for 5-minute errands I needed to run was so irritating. Yes, it’s lovely to pick up a toddler, but not when they are tantruming in the middle of your favorite Cuban restaurant and you need to get them out of there before you died of shame.
But I don’t want to sit on a call with the school counselor trying to fix my kid’s class schedule for the 4th year in a row while my teenage kid is tearing up and we’re all justifiably frustrated at the situation (admin couldn’t care less about kids in AP or advanced classes). Sitting with a kid who is trying to write an email for a school program or a college-related thing can be just tortuous. Living with a moody teenager who is embarrassed by the way you breathe is not great for anyone’s self-esteem.
Apart from very rare parents who like (or loathe) all ages in the same way, I think most people like and/or are better at some stages. I was good at baby, older preschooler, little kid, and big kid up until preteen. Preteen was pretty frustrating, teenagers can be quite pleasant the older they get. I hated nonverbal toddler.
(and of course the individual kid is a variable too – one kid might be “easier” as a toddler than a teen; and the next me just the opposite. People man, they’re complicated)
Three is a popular number in my friend group. I wouldn’t discount the practical impact — it’s always “nbd, throw another one on the pile!” until the youngest starts having its own classes or sports etc. and now you can’t even divide and conquer without enlisting another adult for help driving or whatever. The increase in stress seems exponential.
Emotional energy part – One of my friends has admitted she regrets having the third, because as her second has gotten older, he has some pretty severe behavioral problems (not evident when she had baby #3) that already stretch her parenting capacity way beyond typical!
Where do you live where 3 is common? Almost everyone I know is one and none except those who had kids too young.
Philly burbs, work circle (legal department and colleagues at my old firm). Average for working fathers in that circle is definitely 2.5+; for the moms probably an even 2.
I guess that makes sense since Philly is MCOL
Not that person, but in a Midwest college town and the split between town and gown is so interesting. Virtually all the faculty families have 1 or 2 kids, and I think 1 is actually the most common (although academics have kids late, so I’m guessing fertility is a factor in many cases). Outside the university, 3 is the baseline and plenty of people have 4-5. But, those moms are mostly SAHMs or work part time. I have one close friend who’s not in the university bubble and she has 2 kids (by choice) and feels very alone in not having a bigger family.
Car culture is so hard on children and families.
Lmao.
It’s funny that young kids can’t be outside safely without the risk of being hit by cards, and that older kids’ independence is curtailed by the need to drive in so many places?
Yes, that is hilarious!
I hate that we call it “car culture,” which implies that it’s something people can just opt out of. There are very few cities in this nation where you can actually live without a car.
I live in a city where opting out of a car is very easy (I do not have a car and neither to most of my friends, we have a subway and a fully fleshed out bus system) but if you talked to my colleagues it would seem like they were taken to the car dealership and suburbs at gun point. No recognition of their personal choices.
So everyone should choose to live in a filthy, overpriced, materialistic city so they can ride the subway?
Anon at 3:19 – what stage of life are you in? Do you have kids? I loved living in a city until I had my first kid. But it was very difficult when I needed to run out to get more diapers or take my kid to the doctor (with an hour plus bus ride, which is not fun with a baby or toddler). When it actually came time to start school, I wasn’t willing to send my kids to schools were more than 80% of the kids were below grade level and I couldn’t afford anything in the part of the city with good schools. So I moved out to the suburbs and drive most places now.
Do I miss aspects of my pre-kid city life? Yes. Is my life with a kid so much easier in the suburbs than the city? Also, yes.
Very fair point re: logistics. I oversimplified. And I do agree it means having bandwidth for being intentional in parenting.
I guess the poster who commented about whether kids want to be parented in an intense way comes close to what I was getting at… did you put too much stock in “logistics” – being there for every game, getting to take big vacations, being able to pay for sleepaway camp, etc – and it turns out that those things were less crucial than you thought. Maybe your kids favorite vacation was being at grandmas house, so being able to fit in one hotel room ended up being a “waste”. (Though, your enjoyment of the trips matters too!)
I realize some of these are granular examples. I am enjoying the discussion and the pushback!
I stopped at one, and it has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to be there for every soccer game (I’m not). In terms of knowing my own limits, it’s more that I’m an intense introvert who needs a lot of down time and alone time to feel recharged and ready to interact with other people, even my own family. I knew that I don’t have the emotional battery to be a good mom who can be relatively patient and engaged with her kids if I had more than one. Honestly I struggle with it even with one and I could probably do a better job, but I know I do a much better job of it with one than I would with two.
And yes, to the extent that finances and the ability to take vacations, etc. factors in (it was a factor, but a lesser one) it’s about us enjoying nicer vacations. Zero feelings that kids are entitled to fancy trips; they’re not (and most probably don’t care).
I can’t speak to the parent side of things, but I grew up in a 3-kid family, 1 with significant special needs, and I can say that some of the logistics-type things that matter to people on this board did not matter at all to me – like having a parent at every game, let alone every practice. Of course there were times I wanted my parents’ undivided attention but there were also times I was kind of glad all the spotlight wasn’t on me! There were times when I wished for stuff like fancy sleep away camp; but I also got a huge sense of accomplishment and independence out of working out alternatives – eg. learning to take the city bus to a summer school class I desperately wanted to be in. And yes, my older sibling helped drive me places; I helped drive younger sib; cooked dinner on Mom & Dad’s date night, etc – but it felt like age appropriate “we’re all part of a family that we all contribute to” stuff, not the over parentification some people are referring to. Sometimes we did the things that worked for the family overall but weren’t optimized for a particular kid, but my parents had the ability to do 1:1, optimized stuff with just 1 kid when really needed (I have some really good memories of 1:1 weekend trips with my mom when I was an angsty teen, bless her)
Fundamentally, my parents were able to give three kids “enough”, both financially and emotionally, and I think that was good for us. And I love my siblings & am glad for their presence in my life.
We are one and done due to unexpected secondary infertility. I was sad for the first ~6months or so and then realized I was very ok with a singelton. It’s simply SO much easier to parent just one child. Plus our kid has some special needs and again, it’s just easier to devote time/resources to that with only one child.
I’m in my 40s and have friends with babies/toddlers and my overwhelming reaction is ‘omg I would never want to start over at my age’. Frankly a lot of that is due to eldercare responsibilities I have now that I didn’t have previously, plus I’m much more senior at my job and it would be a big step back for me professionally.
It took a while for me to realize that it’s ok to choose things in motherhood that make life easier and that there are no prizes for making things harder. It all depends on the individual – some moms will find it easy enough to have four kids and others (like me) are good with one.
Happily one and done over here. Like others have mentioned, having one allows us to be the kind of parents we want to be and doesn’t stretch our resources to the point of causing stress. We live in a VHCOL area and have minimal family support; I could see having two if those factors were different, but they’re not. I’m excited to have one little guy and be his mom through all of life’s stages.
I barely made it through two babies and toddlers – it never even occurred to me to have a third! Now that my kids are teens, I wish we had more because I love teens. So I’ve made our house welcoming to my kids’ friends, and they hang out here. Now I have a regular pack of teens around as well as a couple of “bonus kids” who are at my house 3 – 4 days a week and 1 – 2 nights a week. Being able to be a stable place for kids who have a lot going on at home has been a wonderful gift, and now it feels like the sweet spot. I didn’t have to get them TO their teenage years, but being able to be around FOR their teenage years is incredible.
You’re doing a wonderful thing by being a trusted adult for teens
I love this. I have an only, but our house is already *the* gathering spot for her and her group of friends and I really hope that can continue into the teen years. We love bringing friends with us on vacations too.
I want to be like you! Are you at home during the day, making this more possible, or do you work full time outside the home?
Full time remote. I can run out to pick kids up after school, but most of my involvement is after 5 and on weekends.
I have 3. If I had it to do over again, I might have had 1 more. That never even occurred to me at the time, but now that my youngest is about to graduate college, I am not quite ready for it to be over. When my youngest was in high school, I became a second mom to some international kids, and that has helped more than they will ever know. I have these 3 extra boys who call me “mom,” and I schlep them to and from campus and move them into dorms, and they bounce in and out for parts of their summers and holidays. Having these bonus kids to love has really helped me come to terms with not having that fourth kid.
I feel like having two, as opposed to one, made me more relaxed and confident as a parent. Kids really do have different personalities and not everything that they do is because their parents said X or Y or Z. My eldest was so well-behaved that I was in danger of becoming a Parent of One Perfect Child Under Preschool Age (POOPCUP). I never had a real desire to have than two more kids, but I might have been more inclined to have a third if the money situation was different. Going from two to three would have meant five more years of daycare, a bigger car, etc.
My mom would have been so much happier if she was one and done. She got a monster for #2 and she was not prepared.
That was my great fear.
I need to know if you were the monster or if you just hate your sibling.
Clearly she’s the older sibling who resents the younger one.
I don’t hate my sibling, but my mom hates him and resents him for being in his 30s and still occupying her guest room.
Anon @ 1:41, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable question given how much a lot of posters here hate themselves!
Anon @ 1:46, your mom sounds like she could learn how to assert herself and set boundaries; better late than never!
I wouldn’t call my second a monster (well, not in anything but a joking way), but they were just wild and adventurous and everyone was their friend when they were small. My eldest wouldn’t stray five feet away from me in a public place, my second (at 2.5) ran off and tried to get on an elevator with an entirely different family because they wanted to see “more dinosaur.” Now a delightful teen, but was That Kid you see melting down at the airport security line.
I have some nephews who are literally monsters. As in I wouldn’t be surprised to see them in the headlines one day. I didn’t want one of those.
My cousin murdered my aunt! I’m allowed to call him a monster.
Anon at 3:12, yep, you are completely justified (and I’m sorry!!!).
I have two and my oldest is high needs (always has been) and my youngest was a breath of fresh air. My youngest made me feel like I wasn’t a horrible parent – my oldest was just that hard. They are different in the most wonderful ways and I am so thankful I was able to have the experience of my second. (And #2 was a surprise – I thought we were done at 1 bc it was so hard and had a whoops.)
My one and only is in college. When she was 8-10 was the only time when I ever thought I might want or be able to handle a second, but I am so glad we stuck with our choice to be one and done. I love my daughter and I love being her mother, but I am also enjoying being a young empty nester and picking back up with some things that were important to me before I lost my identity to marriage and motherhood.
A big factor in our decision to be one and done was the risk of having a second child with special needs that made family life difficult, both because our family does not have lucky genes and because of age. Another was the risk of twins, which was at least 10% for us.
My youngest of 3 is 7. We were on the fence about her and I’m so glad we did. 4 kids would be…doable but too many for us. Like, if we had an oops 4th we would have kept it and been fine, but we are so happy we had the 3rd!
This is only a small piece of it, but I feel like a lot of people put too much emphasis on the hope for a close adult relationship between their kids. I know quite a few people who dislike their siblings to the point of estrangement, and I know far more (including me, my husband, and basically all our parents) who are civil with our siblings, but not remotely friends. Like we can be in the same room at Thanksgiving without a screaming match, but nobody is calling each other up to chat about life or relying on each other emotionally when going through tough stuff. We all have spouses and friends for that. Based on my experience I feel like the odds of your kids being close friends as adults is… not high. So it’s not something I would really factor into the decision about how many kids to have.
I’m an older mom – kids now aged 21 and 25. We considered a third when they were preschool aged and decided against it mainly due to the “logistics.” All these years later, I think it was the right decision for reasons we didn’t fully consider. For one, we would have been hard-pressed to pay for college for more than two. For another, one of our children has had some significant health and adjustment problems that were not apparent when they were young. When we were considering a third child, I think we assumed the best and smoothest possible outcome for all our children, when parents actually need to be prepared to handle something harder.
Exactly
I have three healthy sons and honestly I would jump at the chance to have a 4th if we knew we’d have a girl. So that is a bit sad for me. But mostly I miss the baby cuddles and toddlers learning but I don’t miss the diapers or the coats or the time or the logistics involved. Good luck
Any advice on getting over things? I made a mistake at work this week and missed an external deadline- objectively not a huge deal, and at the end of the day, it will not affect anything big picture, as I was able to take steps to counteract it, but I lost a lot of sleep and have been incredibly stressed/tense. Rationally, I know that it is fine, but I can’t convince myself of that when I wake up at 3am thinking about it.
To quote Cher: If it doesn’t matter in five years, it doesn’t matter.
If that doesn’t help, ask yourself whether you think about colleagues’ past mistakes at 3am. I bet the answer is no. They’re not thinking about it in the middle of the night so neither should you.
+1
I have anxiety and worry a lot about this kind of stuff too. Something I find helpful is to ask myself, will this matter in 5 minutes? Maybe. 5 days? Probably not. 5 weeks? 5 months? Definitely not.
Everyone makes mistakes! The important thing is how you react to them. Sounds like you did an A+ cleanup job.
Anxiety is not an inherently unhelpful experience. Your brain is working overtime right now to remind itself not to do this. And that’s fine because it sounds like you are only a couple days removed from this! If the feeling persists, therapy will help.
I do this too, including waking up in the early morning hours (if I could even fall asleep). I do not have it completely figured out but I have found that writing down what steps I will take to ensure it does not happen again or creating a checklist (I prefer a paper one) helps and then adding reminders to my calendar.
I hope the weekend brings some distance and peace!
Anyone have experience with Nordstrom stylist service? I tend to buy the same types of clothes over and over so looking for stylist to help push me out of rut. Other suggestions?
This isn’t really what you asked for, but thrift store shopping very much fits that purpose for me. Selection is limited, so instead of gravitating towards your usual, you consider what’s in front of you. I’ve definitely found pieces that were not my usual, that were low risk to try for a couple of bucks, and that ended up being favorites.
Agree with this take! Doesn’t have to be a thrift store – there are plenty of well-curated consignment stores that feel like boutiques, maybe there are some near you? I tend to have purchased my most “out there” closet pieces from these types of stores, and I receive the most compliments on them!
I was not impressed. I’m plus sized but near the average American woman (16/18). The stylist had NO IDEA what to do with that and kept leaning to overly large and unflattering pieces.
I had a great experience. Had no idea so many things would fit me well off the rack–maybe 90% of the things that worked, I would’ve passed by. Go in with an open mind and have fun.
Mine wasn’t good. I was in my 30s and the stylist they assigned for me was in her early 20s and not from a good department for me (I learned). I am a doctor and needed more work appropriate clothing and she was bringing me skinny jeans and trendy tops. I also didn’t do well with the pressure to buy.
So if you decide to go with one, try to visit the store ahead of time to see which or their sub-departments fits what you are looking for the best, and when they send you their questionnaire be sure to make it clear what type of items/style/Nordstrom department is your style. And it will be most satisfying if you just accept that you will be willing to spend a lot of $.
It might be tricky for it to work well now as fewer sizes are kept in stock at many stores. And don’t let them push you into making alterations immediately if you are hesitating about buying an item. I messed up and let them push me into buying a pair of pants that they immediately pinned and tailored. And when I got them back a couple weeks later, I couldn’t fit into them. Over $250 out the window.