Holiday Weekend Open Thread

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cover of the book, CARELESS PEOPLE: A CAUTIONARY TALE OF POWER, GREED, AND LOST IDEALISM

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

Full disclosure: I'm still in the midst of reading this book. But a huge hat tip to the reader who recommended it somewhere in the threadjacks — it's an amazing read so far. (Well, I've primarily* listened to the book thus far, and it's such an easy listen.)

She's shared less than five stories so far, I think (not all regarding Facebook, either), and each and every one of them have been absolutely jaw dropping, told beautifully, and honestly leave me speechless and emotional if I have to stop in the middle of the story. (My poor son had to listen to me telling him the entire story of her shark attack because I had just listened to it and I was still OMG-ing.) I'm assuming this is where the cover art comes from!

She's also been talking about how she decided she was fascinated by Facebook and the “global revolution” that she saw coming in 2011, and how she went about pitching an entirely new job to the Facebook team, including using her network and adjusting her pitch in really smart ways… great reading if you've ever had a fantasy job that you wanted to make reality.

The book is available on hardcover for around $17 at Amazon, Bookshop, Target, or Barnes & Noble; if you're a member of Kindle Unlimited (*raises hand*) it's available for free.

*Am I the only one who likes to get the ebook and the audiobook out at the same time and move between the two? I often find it easiest to start a new book via audiobook. I belong to a few different libraries so I like this Chrome extension to put myself on various hold lists; Spotify Premium also has a lot of audiobooks available.

Sales of note for 8/29/25 (I'm bolding the ones I'm checking out first):

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116 Comments

  1. Where can I buy suits these days? I wear jackets most days and need a handful of suits for dressier days (I work in finance/policy in DC; we still do suits). I like dress suits best, but like a pants suit sometimes. Almost no one has dress suits and for the literally 2 or so I can find online, the dresses are too short. I’m not 20 and don’t want to show my thighs: mid knee is perfect. The pants suits seem to all be hugely oversized. I feel like those only suit very tall and very thin women. I’m tall but not extremely thin. J Crew used to be reliable but they killed the resume dress and have no replacement. I’ve looked at Brooks Brothers, Nordstrom, The Fold, Talbots, Ann Taylor, Hobbs, Banana Republic, MM Lafleur. Any recommendations?

    1. Poshmark. Especially if you’re looking for skinnier pants because those just aren’t a current style.

      1. Unless you are a very consistent size or looking to replace something you already own, I would not do poshmark (I am not).
        You can still find dress suits if you look. For example, Hobbs has a “Mel” blazer & dress coordinating combo at Bloomingdale’s. JCrew had a linen bread dress and blazer that was knee length for summer. I think you need to look for separates though because the “sets” are all going to be short dresses unless you want some Tahari or CK dress suits if from Macys.

          1. Should have clarified. I want something not just black. I already own the Mel suit from Hobbs. The small number of dress suits are almost all black.

    2. Best suit I ever had was a 100% wool skirt suit from Tiger of Sweden. Pricy but worth it — I got so much use out of it (including wearing it as separates).

    3. I discovered Aritzia this week while in an actual mall this week looking for new work pants. They have a couple of dresses that pair with their blazers. Mostly synthetic fabrics instead of wool and not like super high quality, but probably on par with Banana Republic or Ann Taylor.

    4. Bloomingdales at Friendship Heights, Max Mara, St. John, Boss. I prefer non-dress suiting, but this is where I have gotten or tried on dress suits recently. I’d also try Akris Punto, which you can get at Saks also in Friendship Heights if you are up there instead of the store downtown. I definitely have better luck at the stores in Friendship Heights over Tysons– they are more geared towards what you need.

    5. j Crew Executive Dress and matching jacket; dress is 42.5″ long shoulder to end.

      Brooks Brothers Essential Sheath Dress and matching jacket; dress is 39″ long down the back.

      Talbots has several dresses with coordinating jackets, although they might be a bit more feminine than you would like.

    6. resume dress is still there and while it’s final sale now they recently had it marked as “new resume dress” with matching jackets — i wouldn’t be surprised if they have another version back soon.

    7. Elie Tahari? They have a lot of crepe pieces including sheath dresses and traditional jackets. They don’t show them styled as a dress suit, but you might take a flyer and see what might work together. I really like their pant suits. Again, all the pieces are sold separately so you have some options.

  2. I liked the book a lot but the author did not accept any responsibility for her own participation in what FB did. She went into a whole explanation of how she needed the money.

    1. Agreed. I thought the first half of the book – about the Meta origin story – was fascinating, and the second half of the book was less so.

    2. Agreed. It’s an interesting read, but she really glosses over her own involvement or gets really into justifying it.

    3. I liked it, and didn’t feel like she was overly defensive of her own involvement. I’m fuzzy on the timelines but Wiki says she left FB in 2017 and I thought the depth of everything terrible that was going on didn’t really become apparent until after the 2016 election or at least the immediate run-up to it.

      1. That’s when it became wild spread public knowledge. I assume it was widely known within Meta long before that.

  3. I randomly read an article that gave me a lot of calm this morning about how blue state AGs are working together and war gaming and so forth. I hate to ask but do we think it’s true?

      1. I’m going to ask a really stupid question…when we say blue states pay more, what does that mean? Do the citizens in the state pay more in their federal income taxes than the state gets back, or is the state sending its own pot of money?

        I have always assumed the former, but then the risk of paying less is shouldered by taxpayers

        1. It means that blue states have more people with more money. It’s just a commentary on wealth and population distribution.

          1. It’s beyond that. It’s well documented that blue states subsidize red states.

            I live in CA and the $10,000 limit on state income taxes + property taxes absolutely killed us. It was intentional too, because California didn’t go for Trump. (He has said this publicly)

          2. Blue states subsidize red states BECAUSE blue states have more wealthy people. Those aren’t unrelated statements.

          3. I see you’re totally ignoring the point about the cap on other taxes.

            Cost of living tends to be higher in blue states too, which necessitates higher incomes in order to attract employees. Cost of living is high mainly because people want to live here (the cost of housing, particularly) but we do pay a higher percentage of our “disposable” income on taxes.

            I am happy to pay taxes for things like Medicaid and other programs that help the young, the elderly, and the poor. But having leadership in red states bitch about us while we are literally supporting them certainly rubs me the wrong way.

        2. Ok, that’s what I thought, but then I don’t see a way to start paying less… I guess that’s what the policy wonks are for. Either individuals stop paying taxes (and get punished) or we all vote to cut federal taxes and raise our blue state ones in turn. But then we are basically gutting the premise of United States and every public system that operates on scale

    1. I hope it’s true. As far as I’m concerned, Dems couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag. At least Newsom has some b@lls in the redistricting fight.

      Has a single viable democratic candidate been identified for 2028? Just one?

      1. As a Californian, I am really enjoying what Newsom’s social media team has been up to. Aside from being hilarious, it’s apparently getting under The Orange One’s skin, which I find delightful.

        1. I think it’s so annoying and childish. I’ll vote for Newsom or any Dem in any national election, but I hate that this is what the discourse has become.

          1. I hate how useless and politically correct my fellow democrats have become, so I will take snark over nothing.

          2. Just got stuck in m0d for posting a link but I’m all for Newsom fighting back. He needs to use simple words that people understand and to fight back hard. The Democrats have had decades to take the high road and it doesn’t work. I’m over it.

          3. It really says something about Dem leadership that imitating MAGA for laughs is how they fight back.

          4. That’s not all he’s doing. I’m not saying this is a great national situation that we’re in, but Newsom should absolutely be fighting back hard with insults and viral videos. It’s better than playing dead like everybody else appears to be doing, and it seems to be helping.

          5. Unfortunately “when they go low, we go high” has not been the winning strategy that the mature among us would have hoped. It’s time to stop doing “the right thing”, come up with some vicious sound bites, and actually make a splash with voters

          1. I agree – I was a very rule-following child and “work it out” and “don’t hit back” never seemed to work. Recently, in middle age, I’ve been harsher and sterner with bullies (or would-be bullies) and the results have surprised me. It works. They either leave me alone, back down, or do what they were supposed to do in the first place.

          2. I think part of the Democratic leadership disconnect is that the senior leaders still think they can rich guy scold everyone to following norms. Trump and his supporters don’t care what the norms are. Dems rule followed their way off a cliff.

            Newsom is getting under Trump’s skin. More people should follow suit. Get him so enraged at the stupid stuff that he’s too distracted to get the big things accomplished. There are no guardrails or adults in the room now. Best to turn him into the old man screaming at the tv he wants to be until the midterms.

      2. It’s going to be Pritzker, Newsom, or Walz – everyone else should’ve been more vocal by now. Maybe Buttigieg if we’re lucky.

    2. I work for a blue state AG, and I can confirm that there is much, much collaboration among the blue state AGs and their offices.

  4. I posted a few years ago about an ex-friend impregnating his mistress and out friend group seemingly being okay with it resulting in me distancing myself from them. Well I recently noticed all our mutual friends stopped following the cheater on socials. Very validating but I’m going to keep that chapter of my life closed.

          1. Okay, I had not scrolled down to the cupcake thread when I read this. I was so confused.

      1. I am not OP but shunning is a very powerful tool. I think it’s great that this scum of the earth is losing friends over his actions.

        1. I’m more pragmatic. People fail—it’s a part of being human. The baby is real and will need community. That’s what matters. Shunning is a barbaric practice best left in the past.

          1. I agree that it doesn’t make sense to shun a baby!!

            But shunning obviously needs to be brought back. Way too many r*p*sts have supportive friends and communities right now.

          2. I imagine the cheater has plenty of people to validate his actions. And the OP states she left the group awhile ago – so she doesn’t know what his latest offense is. Perhaps it is shun-worthy. And maybe he’s not even close to the baby or the mother, and the circle of friends is. A lot of ifs but we don’t know anything and the OP doesn’t know everything

            And grease those liners lol

  5. If you bake cupcakes or muffins, is there any way to get them to not stick to the pan other than using disposable papers? I feel like whether I use metal, silicone pan or silicone liners, it’s a PITA to clean…

    1. I use a Trudeau silicone muffin pan almost weekly and never have a problem with things sticking to it.

      1. To add: I don’t use liners. The muffins just pop right out and I stick the thing in the dishwasher at the end.

    2. What’s the concern with disposable paper liners? They’re dirt cheap and unless you’re running a commercial kitchen and baking thousands of cupcakes a week the environmental impact is extremely minimal.

      1. you know you’re probably right about the environmental impact considering the very few disposable paper liners i have have been sitting in my pantry for 15 years.

        i’ve tried the dishwasher as well as spraying with pam beforehand (baking pam, olive oil pam, the yellow gross pam) and they’re just gross.

    3. Oil. Put some vegetable on a paper towel and wipe the tops of the muffin tin, and into the muffin tins themselves with oil. You can use a product for this like Pam or oil + flour product like Baker’s Joy. Also I use silicone cups for muffins and cupcakes, but I still wipe the oil on the top of the muffin tin.

    4. Also I put the metal muffin tin pans and the silicone pans in the dishwasher which removes a huge PITA factor. Like, not a PITA at all.

    5. I like my muffins to brown, so I only use liners on cupcakes or if I’m making something extra delicate. I just oil them well and then let them cool a little before popping them out of the pan. Most of the time it’s fine and when it’s not, soaking the pan is enough to clean it pretty easily (I use a bottle brush).

  6. There’s been a real rise in moral relativism / the ends justify the means thinking in political comments here. It has really felt like a race to the bottom, like people are thinking “if they don’t have standards, I don’t have to either.” I’m also starting to hear that tone offline from some friends who spend a lot of time online.

    Have you guys also experienced this in discussions offline? If it bothers you, how are you responding to it offline? Are you even bothering to say anything at all?

    Not super interested in a flame war. It’s okay if you disagree with the premise or think the ends do justify the means. I’m really just looking to hear how people who don’t feel that way are navigating conversations with people who fervently do feel that way.

    1. The average American has a shockingly low reading level. In theory I want to take the moral high road but we need numbers and the average American is confused by anything other than catchy slogans with simple words.

    2. I made a comment above about not worrying about doing “the right thing” and I wonder if you’re riffing off that! I do think that’s different than doing “the wrong thing”, if that makes any sense. Like, it’s not okay to lie and cheat and steal. But if you have to be a little abrasive and reductionist and focus on winning issues while setting the rest aside, I think that’s okay.

      I’m not an ends justify the means person when it comes to being unethical, but I do think the Dem party holds itself to artificially high standards and that is not resonating with voters. I note “artificially” because all politics has a seedy layer, so the posturing as being the completely moral and above the fray often rings hollow.

      1. I actually hadn’t seen your comment! My comment was based off discussions here all week and then a conversation with a colleague this morning.

      2. It really seems like what they characterized as having high standards was just a combination of (a) being genuinely condescending classist snobs together with (b) being sell outs beholden to many of the same interests as their purported opposition, which came with a constant need to cover for hypocrisy and deliberate failure.

    3. Governing is about compromise, and people are imperfect, diverse, and with needs, wants and preferences that dont always sync up. That’s a long way of saying that I know I’ll never have a perfect law, government, candidate or representative. With that in mind, when the administration in power is full of actual fascists doing fascist things, I am fine with overlooking some fairly victimless missteps like a mortgage application irregularity. Especially when I consider the motive behind the accusations.
      Any one of us could be next, especially black women. Keep that in mind.

      1. I understand your position. I’m asking how other people who are not “fine with overlooking some fairly victimless missteps” are having offline conversations with people they know and love who are. (And I’m not interested in litigating whether that’s a fair characterization of that specific issue; this is a broader question).

        1. IMO, everyone is fine with it, the world is too complicated a place for things to be as black and white as you aspire.

        2. I’m just not. My father is a Fox News fanatic and I nod and redirect the conversation. If it’s something particularly egregious I will make a quick rebuttal so he knows I’m not going to suffer fool assertions, but I’m not going to change him and after years of this he rarely brings up politics anymore, and almost never in front of my kids (which is a line for me and once I blew up about it).

          If you generally like the person, you could briefly make your case and then say “I guess we’ll have to table this because it doesn’t seem we agree. What are you doing next weekend?”

          And if it really makes you think poorly of the person and you can’t get over it, put some distance in the relationship. They’ve showed you who they are and it’s up to you what you do with that

          1. That’s fair. I think where I’m struggling is that these are people I am generally politically aligned with and wish I could have interesting conversations with! But maybe the answer is to just take politics off the table with them.

    4. I’m sure you’re not perfect either. Tbh I find people claiming the moral high road to be tiresome unless they themselves don’t contribute to evil (public service/NGO job, zero waste, vegan, etc.)

      1. I’d say that I’ve found that we all see ourselves as someone with strong principles and consistent views, or at least I do. But then when it gets down to the nitty gritty, I have areas where I am willing to compromise and others where I’m not. If we talk about topic XYZ, and I’ll advocate for some kind of meet-in-the-middle approach, you might find that a slippery slope to getting it wrong. I think in order to keep a dialogue going, it’s important to acknowledge that our roles might be reversed on a different topic. So it becomes more about the opinion on that particular topic not aligning, and you don’t put a person in the box of moral relativist, or obnoxious preach.
        Also, considering a spectrum of views helps calibrate your own, so even if we don’t agree, I still appreciate learning about another perspective.

      2. Yep. In fact, relative to the post above, as a liberal I think it’s time we got down and dirty. Moral high ground ain’t working and it’s tiresome to keep having these perfectionist standards for who we will or won’t vote for.

    5. I’ve definitely heard people talk about being more practical / less dogmatic with respect to politics. While I certainly don’t think that the ends always justify the means, I don’t think it helps when Dems focus on issues that don’t have a lot of relevance to the lives of most people.

    6. Put it this way – Republicans aren’t quibbling about whether the ends justify the means. They’re just doing what they want. Democrats can either write concerned memos in their offices or start playing dirty too. The option of playing a fair game doesn’t exist anymore – now that the game has turned rough, isn’t it better to try to win instead of calling for the referee and saying it’s not fair?

      1. Again. I understand the position you’re expressing. I am asking how people who disagree with that position are having conversations with people who hold it, because frankly, each of these little rants is exactly the sort of non-productive cynical rambling that I’d like to respond well to in my real life, where I actually care about the people who are saying these things and want to engage well with them.

        Each of these comments just read like bots sewing sectarian thoughts. They’re basically just talking points with no actual analysis behind them. That’s fine online, truly, because there’s a good chance that’s what they are, or they’re just smart people blowing off a little steam on a Friday night by being a little trite (I know I’ve done that plenty here!).

        But again, my question is for people who share my general concern and is about how to structure in person conversations when someone starts framing things in this way.

          1. Sure! Maybe I did. Hopefully now that I’ve clarified it several times, that will help.

          2. All I’m going to say is that if this hostile, condescending vibe you’re bringing to this comment section is what you plan to bring to family who disappoint you, you’re the one who is going to end up disappointed.

          3. I think a liiiiitttle hostility when you’re getting comments like @5:58 is ok.

        1. What’s your concern, then? I don’t spend more time than I have to engaging with anyone who is ok with what’s going on in the US right now. There is no conversation to be had that will change it.

    7. Perhaps it’s worth considering whether so much is cut and dry. An example: my husband was incredulous and disappointed that Joe pardoned Hunter after promising he wouldn’t.

      To me, it was the act of a loving father with the foresight to save his son from a raging lunatic. I still believe it was the right call, as we know Trump would’ve had him in front of a firing squad by now.

      It may be that few things are black and white. Morality IS somewhat relative to the rules of the society…and right now they have gone up in flames

      1. Thank you for this comment. It’s thoughtful, and I appreciate it.

        I actually am looking for exactly the sort of conversation you seem to have had with your husband! There is gray in the Hunter pardon, like you say, and I like hearing people’s thoughts about that gray. It’s potentially a very interesting conversation, and you’ve staked out two arguments in just a very short comment.

        What I’m running into instead is someone who might say something like “what difference does that pardon make either way? Trump uses pardons for whatever he wants.” And like sure! Yeah! He probably does! And that is absolutely the least interesting take you can bring to the table in this conversation, because it’s just “this person does it so I should get to do it too!”, which isn’t really an interesting or well considered opinion. But I don’t want to say “what a boring and shallow take!” to my friends or colleagues, so trying to figure out how to kindly work around that to get to more interesting discussions.

        1. Your friends and colleagues are tired. They don’t want to engage in more ‘interesting’ discussions. If you’re so starved for stimulation maybe try volunteering for candidates or organizations.

        2. So you want ways to tell people they’re boring and shallow without using the words? And you’re the judge of what’s boring and shallow? Please report back on how that goes.

          1. No, I’m concerned about how people who have always held complex and varied ideas have started expressing simplistic ideas that sound like Russian bots opinions. There’s been a shift from considering world events in the context of deeply held beliefs to not discussing those deeply held beliefs at all. It’s a very similar slide to what I watched some of my Republican relatives go through five-ish years ago. It made me sad to watch it when it happened with those relatives, and it’s sad to watch it now. Probably the answer is that there’s nothing I can do, but I am bummed about how the conversations are trending.

        3. Well, your friends and colleagues aren’t obligated to provide you with what you think are more interesting discussions. I can tell you that I personally care deeply about these issues and simultaneously do not want to engage in nuanced discussions with my friends about them. These people might be giving you “boring and shallow takes” because they don’t want to get into it. Or perhaps they think their take is valid and in fact is not “boring and shallow.” Either way, the fact that you disagree with them doesn’t mean they’re obligated to discuss it with you. I have friends like you, and frankly, they’re exhausting.

          You might consider focusing your efforts on actually effecting change or finding a place focused on intellectual debate rather than trying to force discussions that meet your requirements with friends and colleagues.

        4. They may just not genuinely care. There are lots of Americans who don’t care anything about politics or elections (not even half of us vote). So they may be giving you the what does it matter response because they don’t care.

          There are also people who believe everyone is cheating and are fine with cheating if it benefits them. Or they’re fine with cheating when it is blatantly out in the open. Instead of viewing it as it not being interesting, consider those are just their morals and proceed from there. Are you trying to change them or engage in debate? You might have to find another forum instead.

        5. OP, I don’t know why you’re getting so much hostility but I also don’t know what your actual question is here. In the pardon hypothetical, if your friend says “who cares,” I think you can say “right, sure, but what do you actually think about the pardon itself? Do you think he should have done it? Did you think he would? What would you have done in that situation?” If that leads nowhere, I think the answer is that isn’t a conversation you should pursue and you switch topics.

          But, separately, I think the reason you are seeing this more now is because the alternative clearly didn’t work and people are feeling the consequences of that very acutely. It’s a two party system. You’re picking chicken or fish for dinner. There is no silent option. Not voting for Kamala because you didn’t like Biden’s Gaza policy didn’t do anything to make things better in that situation, and the list can go on. I think plenty of people can have thoughtful conversations on lots of issues but most people do not have energy right now for someone saying “ah well both sides are bad…” because it’s just not the same.

      2. I’ve been hearing about “moral relativism” my whole life and it always confused me. Everything is somewhat relative. I don’t believe in physically harming people, wouldn’t punch somebody if we disagreed. But if I I thought my life was in danger and punching would help, you can bet your sweet bippy I’m going to punch that person.

  7. Curious for any personal reviews on the Moosewood Cooks at Home recipes?

    I’m a vegetarian and do a lot of Budget Bytes recipes, i.e., quick and easy cooking. Eat a lot of beans and lentils.

    1. I don’t cook much, but my mother is an amazing cook who swears by Moosewood. Most of the soups she makes come from their cookbooks. They are delicious!

  8. Great feature! I finished the book after seeing it recommended here as well. I loved it. I also work in a similar position at a similar social media company and it was especially interesting to get her perspective.

  9. Can anyone please tell me the length of the BRF Forever Sweater in size Medium. I’m 5 foot four. I’m looking for something that will work with a skirt without being too long and sloppy, but also not super cropped. The website does not have the measurements.Thanks!

  10. Well, our holiday weekend just went to sh*t. Our baby’s infant daycare emailed and said it’s closing due to financial difficulties. Other spots are slim to none. Fml.

    1. I’m sorry, that is a huge stress. This happened to me (for toddler care, not infant though). We got through it by hiring an experienced sitter until a spot opened up.
      Can you get in touch with some of the other parents and maybe arrange a nanny share (even temporarily)?