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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Addison Foldover Scarf-Neck Dress

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A woman wearing a brown midi dress and black flats

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m loving the slightly unusual asymmetric neckline on this dress from Modern Citizen. The combination of the cool neckline with the classic A-line creates a really interesting look.

I would add some fun earrings and wear this on a day when I didn’t feel like I needed a blazer to complete my outfit. 

The dress is $228 at Modern Citizen and comes in sizes XS-1X. It also comes in black. 

Sales of note for 10/2:

280 Comments

    1. I have almost pulled the trigger on buying this a few times but haven’t bought anything from this brand before. How does the sizing run? Does the fabric pill quickly? I’m 5-4, pear-shaped, and welcome for any volume above the waist.

      1. I find the sizing similar to J Crew and Boden. The fabric is really high quality and does not pill quickly. You may need to shorten their dresses – I’m 5’7″ with a long torso and they tend to fit me really well.

      2. I’m 5’4″, 154 lbs. I tried on size L pants and ended up buying size M ones. I found the wrap dresses didn’t look good over my stomach/hips.

    5. I would love this *but for* the sleeve style. Slimmer 3 /4 sleeves and I’d be all over it.

          1. I agree. This is not cute to me in the least. And I tend to like dressed they are “memorable.”

    6. I know nuntock is everywhere this summer, but I can enjoy the sisters without wanting to dress like one!

    7. JCrew is doing a brown skirt that looks less dramatic but hits this season’s style better and would be easier to wear, I think.

    9. This seems like the kind of dress that would look infinitely better on someone with curves or someone plus sized instead of dwarfing a usual model.

      A-line skirt, upper body detailing & princess seams are all great features for someone my sized…. though I’m with you on the color.

      1. This. When I saw the dress I immediately thought it would look amazing on a certain “plus-sized” friend of mine if it were, like, purple.

  2. Sadly, I think we’re going to have to put our cat down in the next week or two. I’m trying to decide whether to use a mobile vet for euthanasia at home or go to our regular vet’s office.

    I’ve mostly head positive experiences about pet euthanasia at home, but our cat is scared of strangers. He’s not at all aggressive towards unfamiliar people, but he hides under the bed any time someone besides myself or my husband is in the house. Given his anxiety about strangers, I’m worried that a mobile vet could be just as stressful for the cat as us taking him to the vet. For the mobile vet, we would probably still need to put him in his carrier and might have to help prevent him from squirming away when they start the procedure. We do not have any other pets, so no need for other animals to acknowledge the cat’s passing.

    I know it’s going to be sad and unpleasant either way, but what would you do?

    1. I haven’t had good experiences. But I’ve heard that some practices and some mobile services also offer palliative care, so I wonder if there’s a medication they could offer to calm nerves and relieve any potential pain that could make things easier?

      Cats are hard; they’re really not as domesticated as dogs, and they have strong wills of their own.

        1. Yes, we have some gabapentin leftover from a recent vet visit. As long it’s okay with the vet, we’ll probably give him a dose beforehand regardless of which option we choose.

          2. You might want to get something stronger than gabapentin from the vet. For my dog that would be trazodone, but not sure about cats. I recommend doing that – sedating the cat in advance and have the vet come to your house (so hopefully the cat won’t even really be aware that a stranger is there). I’m soon going to have to do the same with my dog and definitely going for the at-home option. I did it with my last dog and it was very peaceful – she went to sleep on her own bed at home.

          3. Depending on what’s going on, buprenorphine is also something to be aware of (pain med topically applied to gums). I feel we don’t often ask humans to face the end without at least some pain relief on board.

    2. I’m really sorry your cat is reaching the end of his life. The big differences to me seem like the car ride itself, and whether the regular vet registers as a stranger or not. If veterinary visits are more routine, I can see how that may be the less stressful option. Also it’s just helpful for you I think to have it be a trusted person known to you.

    3. I remember even at my cat’s end of life he was very strong. I didn’t accept that it was time for this reason (he looked so handsome, his coat was so glossy, he was so strong) but his kidney issues were past the point of no return. I’m so sorry.

      1. I’m so sorry. One of my cats is also a scaredy cat. He is older and I’ve had the same thoughts as you about in-home vs. at the vet.

        In this situation, I think I would take him to the vet. For me, I feel like it would be more stressful chasing him around the house and corralling him in a room with a stranger. Once my boy gets to the vet he is a bit more calm and just stays in his carrier.

        Sending lots of hugs. It’s so hard saying goodbye.

    4. I’m so sorry. I would do whatever you believe would be less stressful for your cat. We did it at home with one of our dogs who hated the vet and was unable to move at the time, and it was peaceful. But if you think that your cat is likely to run, be scared, or need to be restrained if a stranger comes to the house, then I would lean towards the vet. I don’t think you’d like to have memories of your cat being stressed at the end in your home. You want happy memories if your cat in your home.

    5. I’m sorry about your cat. We haven’t had to do this yet, but plan to do it at home if we can. Our cats generally hide from strangers in the house, but I can’t possibly imagine that it makes a difference to do it with our vet. At best, they’re still a stranger, at worst, someone that does horrible things in a horrible place. Plus in our case, they absolutely hate getting taken outside the house so that clearly outweighs everything else.

    6. I’m so sorry. We had to put my elderly cat down during covid so the vet was our only option. Shockingly, my cat (who hated the vet) was calm during the car ride and they gave her a mild sedative first which also helped. It was about as good as an experience as you could hop for, and the vet was amazing. In retrospect, I’m glad we only have more or less positive memories of the cat in our house, and that the vet took care of the handling of remains.

    7. I would have much preferred my cat’s last memories be of our house than an unfamiliar vet’s office, full of dogs and other animals.

      1. +1
        Cat will not like the euthanasia vet no matter what, but home is a lot less stressful than a vet clinic.

    8. I’m so sorry. I just put my cat down in January of this year and I’m still sad about it.

      I had one of our regular vets come to our home for the procedure. My cat is mixed on strangers in the home but she was fine with them that day, until they opened their bag (and she smelled medicines I guess). I have no regrets doing it this way because she freaked out in the carrier and on the way to the vet every time, and this was less stressful for her. But I am so so extra sad every day when I sit on the spot on the couch where I held her. How does your cat do with visits to the vet? If he’s going to be miserable either way, I would opt for going to the vet to limit the bad memories for yourself. And asking for a mild sedative ahead of time as others suggested is a wonderful idea. I wish I had thought of that.

      1. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I’m sorry you had to go through this recently too.

        He doesn’t love going to the vet (what cat does?), but he tolerates it just fine. It’s easy for us to get him in the carrier and he might meow a handful of times on the drive over. Once there, he does alright with the exam, but can get squirmy if they need to do a blood draw. Usually the vet tech has to keep him still while the vet does the blood draw. He never does anything aggressive like hissing or swatting.

    9. So sorry you are in this situation and hugs to you and your sweet cat! I did this at the vet and they did do a mild sedative first. I think that is standard but you could ask in advance to make sure. For me, it was easier to go to the vet because it provided some closure to the situation.

    10. I was very unlucky when I took my cat in to the vet that they had an emergency come in right around the same time – so what was expected to be a 20 minute appointment took closer to 40 minutes. No blame to the vet, and obviously not even a huge delay in the larger scheme of things but the extra wait was very hard.

    11. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply and share their thoughts. It’s a tough decision, but you’ve all given me some additional pros and cons to think about.

    12. Definitely mobile. It is compassionate and the cat doesn’t have to endure a car ride and a trip to the vet. Our cat was euthanized while in my son’s lap, her favorite place to be. We got to grieve in the privacy of our home rather than a vet office lobby.

  3. Two recipe requests:

    What are your easy slow cooker favorites for busy weeknights/working mom life? Minimal chopping requested – I need to be able to throw it in over a quick lunch break while WFH in a busy job.

    Favorite vinegar coleslaw to go with pulled pork? I’ve tried a few but nothing has hit the exact right notes of tangy and yet not too sharp.

    2. 1- chicken, a package of taco seasoning and some salsa. cook until its shreddable. i freeze it with rice and beans fo meal prep. no chopping
      2. pulled pork. pork and barbeque sauce

    3. I don’t eat pork, but my go to coleslaw dressing is cilantro, olive oil, and lime juice. If you think vinegar is too sharp, something with citrus might be worth trying.

      1. This is similar to what I do, though I also add mango to cut the sharpness and give it a bit of sweetness.
        Also- massage the cabbage with a bit of salt before mixing everything else in.

      2. OP here and I love vinegar (sharper the better for me), but my husband wants it more mild. He likes vinegar too but not quite as much as I do.

        1. Have you tried apple cider vinegar? I mix it with salt, pepper, and a little celery salt for the slaw dressing.

    4. My coleslaw recipe is usually a tablespoon of sugar, whisked into red wine vinegar (roughly 1/4-1/3 cup), another tablespoon of mayo, a bunch of cracked black pepper, 1 1/2 teaspoons of celery seed, and then more mayo/salt/sugar as needed until it tastes right. This covers a bag of pre-shredded coleslaw mix. Caveat that I’m from the vinegar sauce side of NC so I default to a heavy hand with vinegar in my BBQ/coleslaw.
      Alternately, this is a very creamy tangy dressing that I think would be nice with pulled pork: https://smittenkitchen.com/2009/05/broccoli-slaw/

    5. For the cole slaw, it sounds awful but mix some ketchup and fresh black pepper into the vinegar before you dress the cabbage. (I received this recipe tip from an awesome NC barbecue joint!)

    7. Chili – ground meat, cans of kidney and black beans, giant cans of tomato sauce, chopped onions if I have them. A seasoning packet is fine, but I season myself.

      Pot Roast – giant hunk of meat (chuck roast or a giant piece of pork), quartered onions, carrots, celery, beef broth, seasoning. Rosemary if I have it. I serve with egg noodles. I’ve done it with just meat, broth, and onions and my family like it just fine.

      Taco soup – ground meat or chicken tenderloins, cans of kidney and black beans, onions, broth, taco seasoning.

      I like to do it in the morning and slow cook all day, but all should work on high for 4 hours too.

      Don’t sleep on sheet pan meals either!

    8. I put mayo in my Cole slaw but I like it a little tangy so no advice there. I hate sweet Cole slaw.

      Shredded chicken: https://www.thereciperebel.com/crockpot-shredded-chicken/

      Mongolian beef: https://www.dinneratthezoo.com/slow-cooker-mongolian-beef/

      Chicken tacos: https://carlsbadcravings.com/slow-cooker-salsa-verde-honey-lime-chicken-recipe/

      Pork roast: https://www.yourhomebasedmom.com/crockpot-pork-roast-only-five-ingredients/

      Chicken spaghetti: https://www.eatingonadime.com/crock-pot-cheesy-chicken-spaghetti-recipe/

      Spaghetti bolognese: https://www.spendwithpennies.com/slow-cooker-spaghetti-bolognese/

      Don’t know if it matters but all of these are kid approved. Also if you don’t have the Paprika app, I highly highly recommend you get it. I pulled all these from there.

    9. I like the Mississippi Pot Roast from Mel’s Kitchen Cafe. I’ll post the link separately. For quick sides, I serve it with Bob Evans mashed potatoes and frozen peas.

    10. buffalo chicken! we add ours to pasta but you could also make wraps with it.

      1 lb chicken breast. 1/2 cup wings sauce, 2 T white vinegar, 2T butter. salt, pepper, and celery seeds to taste. after cooking on low for 8 hours you can shred it and add in 4 laughing cow wedges. we also like to throw in a bag of frozen cauliflower near the end.

        1. nope. it’s very thick, in a wrap it would be more like a chicken salad i guess. with a pasta like a penne or rigatoni the chicken coats them nicely.

    11. Two super-easy cop-out slow cooks meals that are a big hit for my family – take a pack of boneless-skinless chicken thighs (about 4, the individual packs at Costco work for us), and add either a jar of Indian simmer sauce or a jar of whatever salsa you like (we got a mango salsa last time and everyone loved it). Cook for as long as you want, serve with rice and a simple frozen veggie (usually just warm some peas).

      (The salsa chicken was my birthday favorite when I was a kid -I didn’t realize how easy it was until I grew up!)

    12. Just a hint on chopping: buy frozen chopped veggies. For something in a crockpot, they’ll behave the same as fresh. The only common veggie you can’t get is celery, so get that pre-chopped in the produce section.

    13. Buffalo chicken (a few chicken breasts + buffalo sauce + ranch packet). Shred and put on sandwiches or on top of baked potatoes.

      Garlic butter steak bites from The Country Cook, link to follow. This is my picky eater’s favorite meal, so I buy sirloin in bulk from Costco, cube it up, and freeze it in 2 lb packages. If I make it on the weekend, I take the time to sear the beef before I put it in the crockpot, but I definitely skip that step on weekdays.

  4. My family and I will be in Montreal for a day and a half next week, in the middle of a camping vacation. Any recommendations for fun spots or restaurants? The Museum of Fine Arts and the Insectarium are on the short list. We haven’t made hotel reservations, so are flexible on days. Thanks!

    1. The cycling world championships are in Montreal next week. Whether that’s a plus or a minus depends on whether you’d be interested in watching some races, but either way, I’d look up the schedule and locations so you know where roads are closed. The elite races are this weekend and next, with junior and under 23 races during the week. A lot of the road races will be on a repeated circuit in the city, so they’re actually more watchable than most cycling races.

    2. It depends how old the kids are. The science centre is so fun (as an adult!) but teens might think they’re too cool for it. The biodome is spectacular. The biosphere is also fantastic, plus I love the little island. I’m also a big fan of the Basilica and Chateau Ramezay (the gardens should still be in production next week).

      For restaurants if you’re going to be there on/before the 28th burger fiance is amazing (but closing, RIP), bloom sushi is to die for.

    3. The Biodome was really fun! In town, the climb up Mont Royal is a nice excuse for fresh air and gorgeous view.

    4. We really enjoyed the Jean Talon farmer’s market when we were in Montreal. There was one day when we stopped there to pick up sandwiches and fruit and dessert and then walked up Mont Royal and had a picnic.

  5. I’m an hourglass/pear size 16/18 and in search of a vaguely fitted or not boxy matching set of sweatpants and sweatshirt that looks cute for fall/winter. Pockets are a must! What does everyone love these days?

    1. I’m wearing a Varley set (wide leg double soft pants/Harley top) for a work at home sick day today and actually feel pretty pulled together. Sizing runs bigger than I’d expected, I’m in XS for both and I’m pretty solidly a US 6/UK10.

    3. I like the Coaster Luxe from Athleta, but not the new vneck/straightlegged. Get the crew (I’m big-busted and it’s not too high) and the joggers.

  6. A few weeks ago someone recommended really beautiful flats that are made for people with bunions or maybe just sore feet? I feel like the brand started with a P but I’m not sure that is right. I loved them and then lost the link. Any suggestions would be hepful!

  7. What do y’all think about Matthew Rhys not thanking his wife in either of his Emmy acceptance speeches? I get that he wasn’t prepared but it is so standard to thank your loved ones and he remembered to shout out his sister…I do love his shows but thought it was odd

    1. Someone on the internet said she asked him not to? I have no idea if that’s true but it’s one possible explanation.

      2. That seems plausible. As far as I know, they’re not actually married and I think she didn’t love it last time he won when he joked about how she’d punch him if he publicly proposed (someone else had just done that). Easier to just keep your mouth shut than risk saying something awkward.

    6. He did praise her though in his backstage press interviews. That probably just works for their relationship.

    7. They do promotional material all the time together and are quite charming together. They’re very publicaly supportive of each other. I think nothing of it.

  8. Talk to me about dating while traveling often for work! I’m early 30s and dating again after ending a long relationship a few years ago. I have a good job opportunity that would require a lot more work travel than I currently do (approx 40 nights a year now). It’s a lateral (or maybe small promotion) within my current org – likely no raise (unless promotion), but would get per diem while traveling and I’m OT eligible and travel usually means lots of OT (20-40 hrs of OT a week while traveling). I could travel for a few years, pay off my CC and my car and start really saving for a down payment/children/other future costs.

    Travel amounts vary and are hard to predict, but usually somewhere in the 120-200 nights a year range. I can take PTO to be unavailable to travel (so if I have a vacation or big personal plans like weddings I’m not traveling), but otherwise would sort of always be “on call” to travel (this is normal in my field; I’m currently also “always on call”).

    As mentioned, it’d be a good career move and a financial boon. However, that much travel also eats into a personal life. I’m trying to date more and I also have a vibrant personal life in my city that traveling would impact (rec sports leagues, standing Tuesday night happy hours with a group, etc). I can definitely do some of my hobbies while on the road and there’s a strong social life among coworkers on the road, but it’s not the same.

    I struggle because I do want to settle down and recognize that to have that I need stability. But also, as a single woman I am entirely reliant on myself financially and I probably can’t pass up this financial opportunity.

    I have mentally given myself 5 years to have a child – if not with a partner, then I will pursue being a single mom by choice. I’m not going to let a career get in the way of that, but also that’s not cheap and I will need to have my finances squared away for that. Preference is obviously with a partner, but my family has offered lots of help if I have a kid on my own.

    Regardless of what happens long term, I’m quite committed to this career and so last minute long-term (weeks at a time) travel is going to happen – whatever parter I end up with must understand that.

    1. I’m generally of the mind that you make choices based on the life you have now, but there’s not enough information to know if you’re choosing to lean into a career that’s overall not compatible with your goals. Traveling with kids, especially as a single mother won’t be easy either. I also think it’s easy to underestimate the time you have to meet someone on a traditional timeline. I might take this job with an eye toward the next one or pause on this and look for something higher paying with less travel overall and go all in on that now.

    2. My cousin was like you and after a series of failed relationships with other high achieving men she made a very conscious decision to date a principal. He works very reasonable hours and has summers off so she can globe trot while he (poorly) takes care of their kids.

    3. I wouldn’t do it. It will be way easier to meet someone traveling 40 nights a year than 200, and this is a really good age to date intentionally and meet your person.

      How much money extra do you think it will be in a year? Is it possible you can get a raise in the next 3-5 years that would make up for the opportunity cost of turning this down? If it’s $10k a year but requires sacrificing crucial years for setting yourself up to find a partner (and have fun with friends) I just feel like that is far too big of a sacrifice to make.

      1. I disagree. The world is a funny place and she can meet her partner anywhere in it. It isn’t just who is in the 20 mile radius of her apartment building.

        1. I travel for work as an attractive woman, and I’ve never met any paramours during my work travel. Even a fleeting attraction would be more of a liability than anything else – you don’t want to be eyeing a coworker or client, and falling in love with someone who lives thousands of miles away when you have a ticking biological clock feels like a recipe to waste time while keeping you emotionally unavailable from finding a man whose life fits with yours.

          3. +1 As a woman traveling for work, I am guarded in my interactions with strange men. It’s not a good idea to go looking for romance in unfamiliar places.

          4. +2. I hate to say it but the pool of desirable men shrinks in your 30s. It’s hard enough to find someone suitable. It’s even harder to find a man whose schedule and preferences are compatible with frequent travel. If you’re serious about having kids with a partner then this is a bad career decision at your age.

          5. Agreed. I’ve met a lot of married men who are interested in flirting or cheating on their wives, though. It’s sad.

          6. Work travel can be 60 miles away. No one says it has to be thousands.

            You can meet a partner at a coffee shop shop or bar, it doesn’t have to be a coworker or client.

    4. Another question – are you committed to staying in the city where you’re currently living? Also is the travel likely to be to the same stomping grounds or different ones each time?

    5. I would do it for the pay raise (via OT/per diem) and the advancement opportunities.

      Live the life you have now. It’s easier to push in your career now; you have the energy and youth is on your side.

      If you meet someone, rethink it all.

      Kids are expensive even if you don’t go the SMBC route. Getting money banked is a tremendous gift when you want kids.

      2. Agreed. Take advantage of the career and money opportunity now, and see what happens. If you end up choosing SMBC in 5 years you won’t be wondering “what if?” professionally.

    6. I think a large part of this is how you build a relationship. If you’re a traditional dater following the current standard milestones, this much travel means it’s going to be virtually impossible to find someone. But that’s not the only way to meet someone and build a relationship.

      Taking myself as an example, I hate traditional dating and while I accepted dates in college, none of those ever went anywhere. Ended up marrying a guy that was initially just a hiking and caving buddy. “Dating” for 4 months and engaged for 3, half that time spent in a long distance relationship. 7 years and 2 kids later, he travels a ton for work (200-250 days a year), and we’ve never had any serious relationship issues. So if you’re willing to buck traditional timelines and continue to invest in having some sort of social life, I think that it could be a great opportunity for you financially and you could still very much meet someone. But if you really want to “settle down” and have kids with someone, this career is directly antithetical to that goal.

    7. Talk to moms you know who hold the new role about what kind of supports you need to date and have a family while working that kind of schedule. If you can’t find any moms in the new role, that’s your answer about whether this is a fit with your five year plan.

      You post here a lot, so I’m going to repeat some of what has been said in the past: you can’t do everything all of the time. You can’t travel 120 nights a year and have a toddler at home as a single mother. You can’t be 100% committed to your career and your hobbies and find a guy who is willing to be the least important obligation in your life. You most definitely won’t find a guy who is interested in being your childcare plan as opposed to your romantic partner. The ability to compromise and prioritize are important relationship skills.

    8. You want to have kids in 5 years and are willing to do that alone. So, this is an ideal time to lean into your career, particularly if this role could be a stepping stone to other options that might work better with a family. And, there’s no guarantees about dating even if you were to stay put. How would you feel if you gave up this opportunity in favor of being available to date but 5 years from now you haven’t found someone?

      Looking back on it, I think I should’ve spent less time dating. I treated dating like a part time job. I thought that’s what I was supposed to do. I kept an open mind. But really I was just wasting my time with unworthy men or men who were nice enough but not a match for me. When I finally met my husband, I don’t think any of my prior dating strategies really came into play. I think it would’ve worked out even if I’d had to cancel our first date at the last minute because of work, or whatever. I think the person who’s meant for you will be the type who isn’t turned off by your schedule.

      1. I kind of disagree with this. If my now husband traveled 200 days a year when I first met him, I would have definitely been turned off by that schedule. Certainly not everyone will be. But it is reasonable to expect that OP’s dating pool will be reduced if she gone over half of the year.

        1. This. The kind of guy you want to build a life with will likely be someone who actually wants to see their spouse and share in that life.

      2. I strongly disagree with the second half of this. Taking dating seriously doesn’t mean going out with guys who are clearly a bad fit. It means spending time on apps each day, asking a guy out if you’re interested in him, pursuing hobbies that widen your network, and saying yes to social invites.

        Maybe some guys will be fine with an SO who’s gone two thirds of the year. But OP is substantially limiting her options and that type of personality may not be a fit for her when she gets a new job 5 years from now.

    9. I would not take the job. There is a huge difference between 40 days of travel and 200 days of travel. 200 days is getting close to the territory where it hard to maintain a sense of normalcy in your home city.

      Re your last point about being committed to this career… If you are a single mom, it will be virtually impossible to be gone weeks at a time and/or travel 200 nights a year.

      2. I posted above that I think she should do this. Just bank the money (30 hours of OT per week will double her salary), enjoy the ride up the corporate hierarchy, and if she needs to go the SMBC route, she has the clout and money to make it happen.

        1. Nah, find a job that pays more and lets you stay in one place. There are plenty of those that pay quite well. If you’re making OT, you’re also probably at the low end of a pay scale and ladder and it’s not worth investing in that as a career given OPs goals.

          1. In government everyone but SES gets OT because we can’t work without compensation.

            You can be quite high up with a good salary and make OT

    10. One of my biggest regrets is worrying about money in the short-term at the expense of more important things. There are trips or risks I could have taken in my twenties that I didn’t to save money, but now that amount of money is negligible to me in my thirties. The decisions feel short-sighted now.

      Having a double income household, especially with a higher earning partner, would likely make up the difference in money you’d be leaving on the table now by a lot. I would try to think in terms of life-long goals (including financial) versus year-long goals.

    11. OP here:

      1. When I have kids I’d scale back to a lower travel job like I have now. Some parents travel 200+ days a year here, but that’s not how I’d want to parent.
      2. I’m very committed to staying both in my city and at my current org. My field is niche and has limited options, I’ve done cost/benefit analysis and this is the best option for me now and in the future.
      3. Travel would mostly be to the same 2-3 locations.
      4. Travel is currently scaling back – that team has been closer to 60-120 days of travel for the last 2 years. But, things can always change again.
      5. No moms with young kids on this team, but also it’s a team of <10 in an org of 350. I’d say 90% or more of the org travels but most are closer to 30-60 days.

      I could stay put in my current role, but I’m maxing out growth opportunities in this role. I could potentially lateral to another position more similar to mine, but there are no current openings.

      Financially, I see it as a trade off not terribly different from joining the military to pay for college or big law to pay for law school. You’re very busy and your personal life takes a hit, but the plan is to do it for a few years, secure your finances and move back to a more normal life.

      FWIW, if I go the SMBC route I’d move back in with my parents (we’ve already discussed this). As previously mentioned, I’d cut way back on travel with kids, but could rely on my parents for childcare while traveling.

      1. I guess one question would be how badly do you want a partner? If you are okay being a single mom, you have a lot more flexibility and control. It’s only if you want a partner that it might be worth prioritizing.

        But you could also be ruthless about going on dates during the 165-200 days you’re in your city, even with the high travel job. So it’s workable in either situation.

      3. It seems quite different to military life for most people – usually men joining the service who will be primary earner and a trailing wife is much less likely to work who is able to work from home and raise kids. Are you prepared for finding a partner who doesn’t want the same kind of career you do?

      4. I spent 8 years in biglaw, before leaving and becoming a SMC. I have very mixed feelings about it. I think it’s my time in biglaw that stopped me from finding a partner, but I also wouldn’t be able to afford to be a SMC without that time.

        If you really want a partner, I wouldn’t take this job. It won’t leave you time to date and find someone. And I think you will look back on it with regret.

      5. You sound like somebody who’s fairly extroverted and enjoys being busy, both at work and socially. And you sound like you want and would enjoy this change for now.

        Do you work with a more introverted, homebody partner? There are lots of people in this world who would be perfectly okay with seeing somebody every other week, while getting to know you. If you’re only attracted to or looking for somebody who wants to be joined at the hip it’s obviously not going to work, but if you want somebody who’s comfortable with their own company and space, it might.

    12. This board is a funny place.

      I think if this was worded as a management consultant joining MBB after graduating from a top B school who wanted to grind for a few years then downshift and pursue family life the responses would be much more positive.

      1. I would never encourage anyone to go into management consulting. But then again, I am a lot less ambitious than many on this board.

      2. Right! 40 nights away from the child on travel = bad but a mom in Big Law missing family dinner and bed time 40 nights a week because she’s working late is apparently fine?

        1. Travel for days/weeks on end as a single parent is fundamentally different than a partnered parent missing a dinner less than once a week.

      3. Yes because that pays well and provides career options. A niche job where OP is slogging for OT isn’t the same thing.

        1. My job pays decently well (108k in an MCOL) and has a great career trajectory.

          Just because it’s niche doesn’t mean it’s bad.

          3. Idk, all of my friends are making between 88k and 115k.

            It’s a good salary for normal people; not everyone is a lawyer or doctor.

          4. Seriously – 100K is still a very good salary. This board is very skewed as to what is normal. Very wealthy here.

    13. This job sounds fundamentally incompatible with being an SMBC. You cannot just dump a small child at grandma’s for weeks at a time. That’s being a deadbeat parent. Don’t do that.

      That being said, take the job for now. You don’t have kids. It sounds like you’d think it was fun. You have plenty of time to pivot away from it if you do decide to be an SMBC.

      1. Obviously I was never planning on traveling 200 nights a year with a child. There are other single parents here (or families with both parents working here) and everyone manages just fine. And yes, sometimes that means grandma comes and watches the kid for a few weeks.

        1. Grandma watching the kid “for a few weeks” is not typical when you’re a single parent or in a family with two working parents. You do you, of course, but a work trip that is a few weeks long is much different than a work trip that is a few days long.

        2. Honestly, that’s what family is for. If grandma is good, then it’s a valid option for a traveling parent. Financially supporting your child sometimes has to take precedence over “presence.”

          1. Being a traveling parent is one thing if you’re partnered. It’s a whole other thing if you’re single. Plenty of people end up in the situation of being a single + traveling parent due to death/divorce/incompetence, but don’t opt for it when you have literally a thousand other options available to you.

          3. No offloading your kids off on someone is bad parenting. It’s very clear none of the commenters here has parents who cared more about their careers than their kids.

        3. Traveling for “a few weeks” is fundamentally incompatible with being a good single parent to a young child. Either don’t have the kid in the first place, find a partner who will parent in a way that facilitates you traveling for any period over 2 days at a time, or switch jobs a year or two before you plan to get pregnant.

          1. I think this would be a reason to take this job now. The travel could get old eventually and there will be opportunities to switch later on.

          2. Yeah, that’s why I said she should take it for now! She doesn’t have kids or any concrete plans to have them. Plenty of time to transition later if she does decide she wants them.

          3. Obviously none of you grew up in military communities. This is common and doesn’t make these parents deadbeats. We all have to sacrifice the perfect in favor of the good enough sometimes.

          6. They are deadbeats if they are single parents by choice. I know a lot of parents in the military, and while some of them are now single, none of them opted into parenthood while single.

            Do not have a child alone if you have a job that requires you to be away from the child for weeks or months on end.

          7. If you have a supportive family you are not having a child alone. I applaud single parents for doing what they have to do to make it work. Many of you are judgmental and have no business lecturing anyone on parenthood.

          8. Grandparents are not substitutes for parents. A kid needs time with their parents.

            If the more available parent ends up dying or disabled and the traveling parent is just trying to keep mouths fed, that is completely understandable and commendable in the face of a hard situation. But if you are choosing to start their life with only one parent available for the child, you need to make sure that that parent is actually available to them. Don’t opt your child into a needlessly hard situation before they’re even born.

          9. I mean, most parents are average at best. A kid needs a responsible adult who loves them, full stop. A grandparent can fit this bill.

          10. No, kids need parents.

            You’re delusional if you think outcomes are equally good for kids who are primarily raised by their parents vs by their grandparents.

          11. Source that all parents have unicorn-like parenting abilities? Sounds like you’re just saying things that make you feel better.

          12. Some of the best people I know were primarily raised by a grandparent or grandparents. You’re being weird about this. My parents were pretty good, but thank god for my grandparents.

          13. “Custodial grandchildren fared worse than children from the NHIS sample across all domains measured by the SDQ subscales, regardless of the child’s gender and whether reporters were recruited by population-based or convenience sampling methods. Comparisons within the sample of 733 custodial grandmothers showed that higher levels of difficulties were reported when grandmothers were caring for boys, were recruited by convenience versus population-based sampling, and were white. Comparisons of the banded scores computed for each SDQ subscale suggested that custodial grandchildren have different cutoff points than children in the general population for a likely diagnosis of a psychiatric disorder.”

            Smith / Palmieri 2007.

          14. I can see both sides of this argument, but surely children from unstable homes whose parents have substance problems and other issues like that are far more likely to end up in the care of grandparents so it seems very hard to separate correlation from causation here.

          15. Sure, and that’s because drugs and prison are the only thing most parents would let separate them from their child as a single parent for weeks on end. It is an inherently maladaptive approach.

    14. I’m sorry. It’s so hard to be single and trying to take some agency over your future when the world is built for couples. I’ve been going through something similar – it’s looking more and more like if I want a kid (I do!) I’ll have to do it myself and it just sucks trying to balance finances and career and housing with that in mind.

    15. If I met a guy who traveled that much I would never believe that he was interested in marriage and a family. You have clear plans that include an end date for the travel, but it is likely that potential partners will be put off by the current situation. You will need to switch to a family-friendly career to become a SMBC, so is it possible to accelerate that timeline to facilitate finding a partner?

    16. I’m older. I’m divorced and I warn women in your shoes to not make yourself so available for dating.

      Understand that today both man and woman are expected to pay their own way. Alimony is now capped and it’s extremely hard to be awarded alimony if your marriage was less than 10 years. You also can’t rely on child support because the amounts are tiny and amount to inconsequential amounts if you have a 50/50 schedule.

      My advice is to make the decision about work travel centered on if this travel is necessary to progress. If there is a payoff, keep traveling. If the pay is not worth it to switch. Do not go looking for a man. It will come.

  9. Anyone read the article about the MIT report on “cognitive surrender” related to AI use in college? A few excerpts:

    “The committee at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology studying A.I. use released a number of alarming findings, including that the technology has caused “major shifts in campus culture,” isolating students who are skipping office hours and ditching communal studying. Getting answers from a bot can create “the illusion of learning” for students who reach for A.I. “at the first hint of struggle,” the M.I.T. committee wrote in its August report…

    A recent study of 26,000 Chinese secondary-school students found that A.I. adoption led to an 18 percent increase in homework scores, but a 20 percent decline in scores on secure exams…

    One 2025 study out of M.I.T. found that people who used chatbots as writing assistants struggled to remember what they had written only minutes after finishing their essay. “You basically didn’t engage any of the memory networks that would actually help you remember,” said Nataliya Kos’myna, a M.I.T. researcher who worked on the study.

    Other research has shown that people who have greater trust in A.I. and rely on it more are more likely to have lower cognitive engagement.”

    There’s more to the article, including some about opportunities that people perceive in AI. One thing I will note is that I personally would like to see the return of blue book exams and oral exams. I think they deepen skills and learning SO much and prepare students for the real world, especially the oral exams – so many struggle with public speaking and with organizing/pacing their thoughts. There’s also strong evidence that writing by hand engages the brain far more than typing, in part due to the skill required to manually shape the different letters (as opposed to hitting identical keys).

    When it comes down to it, I want to ward off cognitive decline, not embrace it. Dementia runs in my family already.

    2. Thanks for such a well-written and interesting comment with excerpts.

      I think this is the latest step in a slide begun with using a search engine and Google maps to answer and find everything. Even in myself (a low volume user of AI) I notice that my recall of facts, names, and geographies is poorer than older people with similar backgrounds (in my book club, for example).

      I don’t want to minimize the impact of AI, but it feels like just the next step in ruining our attention span, literacy, memory, and reasoning; but that path seems like it began with social media and click-bait.

      1. I totally agree with you. I’ve noticed that I’ve become massively over-dependent on google maps when driving or taking public transit (though not when going somewhere on foot!), and would automatically set my destination in the GPS as soon as I got in the car even if it’s somewhere familiar. Now whenever I’m going somewhere in a generally familiar area, I might check the directions and traffic/route issues and travel time first before leaving the house, then drive/take the train there without the route on. I still use turn-by-turn directions if I’m going somewhere I’ve never been before. But I’ve lived in the same part of the same city my entire life, why do I need google maps to hold my hand while navigating?

        1. OP here and I agree – I’ll pull up Google maps to make sure there’s no accident blocking the highway but then will not use it for navigation unless I really need to. Even if it’s somewhere new, I try not to use it if the location seems straightforward.

      2. I remember when college students first stopped using Google to find resources and started simply relying on the box summaries at the top of the page (without following any links to the sources).

        The need to distinguish education from box checking exercises definitely pre-dates AI.

    3. I didn’t read the article but this doesn’t seem like new news? Anyone who interacts with young people these days can see this playing out. I see it in my friend’s step kids. I see it among my peers too. AI as the default helping tool is absolutely causing (part of) the dumbing down of society.

      I too want to ward off dementia and other mental decline so I really do not use AI chatbots and I try to avoid the built in AI tools in things like Google. I know it’s not going anywhere and I’m not anti-AI, I am just hoping for responsible use cases. (Right right).

      I work in an industry where we do not use it widely at my company (yet) because of security concerns. I will use it in the future when appropriate and if dictated by the customer, but I am managing just fine for now. 🤷🏻‍♀️

    4. I’m thrilled that my child’s middle school has gone full old-school analog during the school day this year. They complete all in-class assignments and learn to take notes entirely by hand (except in a technology class, where they learn to use photoshop and other software, but not generative AI). Most homework is handwritten as well and everything is handed in in hard copy at school. I was so worried about this, since the elementary school let them do all their written work on the computer, so my kid was relying heavily on spell check at an age when she should be learning how to spell herself. If she had any possibility of using AI for schoolwork, she would definitely do it. I’m glad universities are starting to push back on this. I want her to learn to think, reason, read, and write.

      1. Thanks for the link. Just read it.

        My kids are only in elementary school but I’m guessing that when they get to middle school and high school, their teachers will be giving more weight to in class writing assignments and discussions to assess competency, over take home assignments.

      2. I work at a major university and we now have faculty who are creating tech-free classrooms–hardcopy books, paper, and pencil only. I’m all for it.

    5. Many middle and high schools are already starting to crack down hard on both phone use and AI – NYC and many east coast areas in particular. My kids are in middle and high schools that have banned phones and have serious talks about penalties for AI use. The high school is requiring time stamped google docs versions for online essays and a lot of teachers are requiring handwritten work (blue books are making a come back!). I think colleges are going to be doing the same thing very soon if they aren’t already.

    6. I hope, probably fruitlessly, that AI will cause teachers to rethink testing. Too much of my homework even through HS felt like busy work. Let’s teach kids to actually think critically.

      I’d be all for, ie, enter this prompt into AI and then identify and analyze all the flaws, citing your sources.

  10. another recipe request – I’m not a big fan of shepherd’s pie but my husband and son always order it if it’s on a menu. any easy recipes?

    1. Rachel Ray had a pretty good recipe. I cheat and use premade mashed potatoes, which are perfectly tasty and work well in a recipe like this. Have also been known to use frozen peas and carrots, instead of cutting up fresh carrots.

      1. Yeah, you can use pretty much any recipe for this and then swap in instant potatoes and precut veggies to make it much easier. But you are going to lose some depth of flavor and texture.

    2. Martha Stewart’s basic shepherd’s pie recipe is my go to with the basic proportions. I like to add mushrooms to it and take a heavy approach to seasoning both the meat component and mash potatoes. It really is a clean out the fridge type of recipe so you can throw lots of veggies in it.

      1. Same. Every year on pi day. And I’d like to be an advocate for mashed potatoes from real potatoes.

  11. Can anyone give me a good faith explanation for this, or are my friends just jerks? A couple of friends seem to have this, you know what you signed up for so don’t complain, attitude. I can think of three examples of people they’ve criticized: me when I started biglaw, a friend who had a baby with a loser because she was over 40 and wanted a baby, and a friend who married her problematic BF and later wanted to divorce him because of the abuse. The thinking seems to be, you can’t complain because you knew what you were getting yourself into. I would like to understand their perspective, but I just don’t get it at all.

    First, no they didn’t know what they were getting into. No one can know what it’s like to be a single mom of a particular child until they’ve been through it. A crazy SO often gets a lot worse when they think they’ve locked you down. I knew I would work a lot but I didn’t know how unpredictable/soulless it would be.

    Second, even if we did know, so what? Divorcing friend is supposed to continue to put up with abuse now because she did then? Single mom friend can never express that parenting is hard? I can’t change jobs ever?

    And finally, isn’t that what friends are for — supporting each other when life is tough? Why are we only “allowed” to be upset about totally unforeseen circumstances? And who made certain friends the arbiter of which circumstance is sufficiently unforeseen to warrant complaint? I really would like to understand but I’m struggling. Thoughts?

    1. I hear you. I hear the friends you disagree with, too. Your friend who knowingly had a child with a loser because she wanted a child got what she wanted, and the bad aspect didn’t magically change. But still support your friend and child—it doesn’t mean you need to pretend they made a good choice.

      1. Yes, I can see both sides too. And I will admit that I have had similar experiences / thoughts about my friends’ choices sometimes too. I generally keep those thoughts to myself, however, and continue to be a supportive friend. But I would by lying if I said I never have those thoughts!

    2. I understand what you mean. I’ve seen that a lot here, actually – a lot of replies when someone is struggling about “what did you expect” and “well, duh” and similar. Sometimes people seem to take on improving their friends and family as a personal passion project. They seem to think that when someone confides about a hard time, what they’re actually asking for is to be berated. I don’t understand it either. I DO understand why you might think “what did she expect” – but those are inside thoughts.

    3. It’s a split, and it also depends on if the person is just complaining or doing anything to fix it. You do know how big law is, why it is that way, and I do think part of the deal is you deal with it for a while. If not, you do have agency to leave. Of course as a friend I’ll be sympathetic, but that doesn’t change the facts.

      It’s more difficult with kids or abuse. First of all someone in an abusive situation often isn’t thinking straight. But as someone with a friend who married the loser (not abusive) and now divorced him, it gets tiring. He was useless before the wedding too.

      Friends should be supportive but if they’re repeatedly being told the same complaints and no changes are ever made, it’s natural that they’ll eventually get tired too. The friend with the loser ex complained about him every single time we met. He was like that from the beginning but she assumed “I can change him” and didn’t want to hear when we said he wouldn’t change – and he never did.

      1. +1,000 to your last paragraph. I am happy to listen to complaints, but if you won’t do anything to change the circumstances? Then I am out on your complaints after a period of time. I do not think friendship means signing up to hear your friends complain endlessly about things that are within their control to change. I had to have convos with some of my best girlfriends – they would complain about their husbands, who actually aren’t jerks, but not actually do anything to address what they were complaining about so of course it kept happening. I didn’t want to hate their husbands because we all hang out and they aren’t bad guys!

        I am exhausted with another friend of mine who had off the charts anxiety. I love her. And what she is going through is hard. I have only been supportive so far, but man is it draining to hear about all the time. She is not open to all the different tools, so it doesn’t really get any better. I don’t know how much longer I can support her if I am being honest.

        I also just don’t want to he around people who complain all the time? Sure, everyone complains at times, but the endless complaining about everything is so unattractive to me in people.

        1. I think it’s totally justified to not be able to listen to endless complaining (I certainly can’t), but it doesn’t excuse harsh language like “what did you expect” to someone who is struggling. That’s just rude. I would advocate for a gentle conversation and/or simply making yourself less available.

          1. I couldn’t fully tell from what OP said if this attitude was being expressed directly to the struggling person or about them to mutual friends. Though clearly she caught wind of the attitude about her career, so maybe it really is expressed to people’s faces!

    4. I have a sibling who has one grievance topic that is 10 years old and will only want to have conversations about this that are 100% supportive to her. I agree with her position on the grievance topic (what a horrible person her ex is; they have kids, so this is a bit evergreen after the initial grievance items occurred). I also am done talking about it for hours each time we talk (so I’m now on the persona non grata list).

      I find that people are usually happy to get the abbreviated version: “A great work opportunity came up somewhere new, so this is my new work contact info.” No one really wants the whole back story unless they are either in a similar boat or being recruited where you left. In that case, they will ask.

    5. I guess this is the “you made your bed, now you can lie it” or “you reap what you sow” take? I think people feel this way when they start to feel drained by being supportive in situations that they saw coming from miles away.

      I do feel that I have limited capacity for listening to complaints about ongoing situations that are entirely possible to change but apparently aren’t worth changing. I wish people would own their choices and make peace with what they’ve chosen instead of fretting and spinning wheels or trying to persuade themselves and me that they are really and truly trapped when they’re not.

      But that also means I’d feel very motivated to support someone who is taking action to make the change they want to make!

      Still there’s a real tension between caring about someone as a friend and watching them make self-destructive choices. It almost feels necessary to suppress one’s own feelings in order to let go. The examples you listed may not seem that bad, but it’s on a spectrum. If you are finding it hard to understand the impatience with these three examples, try thinking of other examples you find less sympathetic, whatever those are for you.

      1. I should clarify that if someone is a rough situation and has weighed the pros and cons of change and is staying for reasons, supporting them through the continued struggles feels better to me than if someone is just adamant that they are stuck and are victims of circumstances and made no choices and have no agency whatsoever. I can support a friend through something hard that they’ve chosen to do anyway! (Kind of a lot of people are going through hard times in that sense right now!)

        1. I agree. Most reasonable people have made the decision to stay in their situations for reasons that are their own, and often those reasons are very valid. We may think we fully understand what they’re going through or what their considerations are, but unless we’re living it, we don’t. I think it’s important for friends not to be arrogant and not to assume they know best for someone else. Just be a friend!

      1. You’re not wrong, but if I’m honest I have some lines where if my friends crossed them, I would really struggle to stay fully sympathetic. I may just also be a jerk though, since I know people who don’t have those lines at all and have compassion for everyone (even the abusers themselves).

        1. I have a lot of compassion for people, but fall into the camp of “don’t do dumb things.” Having a child with a known loser is one of them. Having a child with someone who turns out to be a loser is not one of them.

          1. If I think about it, I think some of my lines are kind of selfish/risk averse. I really do not want friends to bring unpredictable, chaotic, or arguably dangerous people into my life. I don’t know what makes me think I shouldn’t have to deal with all kinds of people, but so much of my motivation to go to college and get out of high drama small town America was just to live a quieter life in a more anonymous urban setting.

      2. I won’t necessarily say your friends are jerks, but I will say that I was in an awful marriage for a ridiculously long time, and I complained about it (to one friend in particular) for a ridiculously long time before I was able to do anything about it. And boy oh boy do I still treasure that support to this day.

        1. Thanks for sharing this; this is actually helpful to hear. I think I’ve absorbed the idea that support can be counterproductive somehow and feel conflicted when I shouldn’t!

    7. Idk, I think they’re being reasonable. Of course you can get divorced, have a kid, pick a hard job. Do all of that. But whining about it doesn’t make it less hard, so put on your big girl pants and handle it.

      I support you by believing you are capable of handling the consequences of your choices without complaining all the time. Because you are capable of that. So go do it.

      2. I don’t mind one off complaints or lots of them during particularly hard times. But I really hate hearing competent women consistently underestimate themselves and discount their own capacity for managing hard things.

        1. Are you the poster who was hammering women who talked about knowing their limits with having more than one kid? It’s not so much about “underestimating themselves” but making conscious choices to bring happiness into their lives.

          1. ?? I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but I’m all for women taking or quitting the big jobs, having (or not having) the kids that they want to have, and dumping losers (or working on their marriages) in whatever way brings happiness into their lives. I am not all for them talking about themselves like they can’t handle their own life circumstances when they are, in fact, right in the middle of handling them.

    8. I mean as a teacher I never want to hear friends who chased the money into big law or ibanking complain about their jobs.

      Rude of me? Perhaps. But you knowingly took a job that you know is miserable and does nothing for humanity in exchange for $$$.

      1. Funnily enough, I have a teacher friend who constantly complains about money, and I feel the same way about her. You picked a famously low-paying career to fulfill some sort of emotional need despite being very capable of making more money in any number of industries. It is totally fine that you made that choice, but own it and stop whining.

        1. And what would happen if every teacher made that choice?

          Do you know who makes less money than teachers? EMTs. Do you want those jobs filled too? Surely anyone who is a paramedic could become a nurse.

          1. Right, and they should. EMT is an entry level job, and you should be aiming higher if you’re capable of it. I know lots of former EMTs, and they all moved on to better paying jobs within the medical sector by age 30. Great first job; terrible career.

        2. Some commenters on this board have disgusting views about public service work. Honestly the way you glorify making money over strengthening community is gross.

          1. There’s that teacher martyrdom! It is hilarious how much teachers hype themselves up. Bless your heart.

          3. I have a unicorn public service job that pays well but yeah it’s gross how much the women here revel in causing social and environmental destruction for their big pay cheques and think they’re such good people.

          5. I think one commenter once called her decision to chase money the only morally responsible choice 😅

          7. Hope this weird moral superiority pays your bills so I don’t have to subsidize your choices any more than I already am!

          8. I mean, I also find it appalling that people who do good work also have to live alongside those (you) who mock it.

          9. But the point is that you don’t do good work. You do work that makes you feel good about yourself. They are not the same thing.

          11. We can both go back to our utterly meaningless work now :). If either of us were actually doing world changing work, we wouldn’t be wasting time on the internet, would we?

    9. Thanks for sharing this. Your post reminds me of my once beloved aunt. I’ll share my perspective if it’s helpful to understand the other side. She’s married a man who is consistently embarrassing, and what’s worse, is a terrible person.

      For decades every family event has revolved around one of us being subjected to his bigoted, racist rants. We avoid, we shut down, we walk away. But he persists and even when he is relatively fine threat of a rant casts a shadow over everything.

      My aunt, who doesn’t agree with him, will always attempt to tell us how awful she thinks he is afterwards. It occurred to me only a few years ago that despite her protests, she’s the only one who can divorce this man. We can’t. I’m just not willing to hear her complain anymore because it’s been two and a half decades. She knows who he is. On some level, her complaints are just a way to absolve herself from feeling responsibility for the situation she puts everyone in by staying married to him. Honestly, I feel like we’re owed an apology more than she’s owed commiseration. Clearly something about this marriage works for her and she’s willing to not only put up with him but to make us all put up with him to keep that. They have no kids and she out earns him. So maybe I’m a jerk, but she’s made her bed and I don’t entertain her complaints anymore.

      I will say, I’d see this differently if she were actively divorcing him, obviously. But at some point in life it’s not about lacking compassion so much as seeing more clearly the choices that others continue to make despite the story they tell you about their circumstances.

      1. I would not be attending these family events. Or better yet just don’t invite your aunt.

        1. I’ve skipped a lot. Ive pulled back a lot. I’m pretty happy with the balance I’ve struck between preserving myself and my ties to my family.

          I appreciate the feedback but the point here was that my aunt’s complaints are not worthy of sympathy. To the extent her other relationships suffer she’s ok with the trade off.

      2. Has anyone ever said, exasperatedly, after yet another rant from him and a half-baked apology from her, “Why don’t you just divorce him?”

        1. Yes! My mother has. My aunt has stated that wouldn’t be financially feasible for her. We’re pretty familiar with her finances and her lifestyle. We both understand this is cover for “I don’t want to.”

          My mom is convinced she’s happier in this marriage behind closed doors than she’d like us to believe. That’s the upsetting thing. He is truly a vile human and it’s sort of tragic how much less we’ve come to think of her. By staying in this marriage and playing the victim when his awfulness causes issues my aunt thinks she gets it both ways. But his actions are still really damaging to our family. I love her, I’m not cutting her out of my life.but I respect her less and have had to pull away a lot.

  12. The AskAManager post today is about whether or not its okay to wear the same thing to work every day.

    I can’t tell if its the exact same outfit without washing. I think that’s an issue and I can’t imagine doing it. I know not everything has to be washed after 1 wear but still every day is a different story. I guess people did do this in the past when they didn’t have as many clothes.

    However its fine to buy 3 of the same work pants and 4 of the same work blouse and rotate through them. Wouldn’t be my style, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Make some of them different colors and its completely fine.

    Where do you land on this?

    2. If it’s a “personal work uniform” a la Steve Jobs, I think it’s perfectly fine. As AAM says, it saves brain power for more important things.

      1. I totally get saving brain space for other things. If you’re steve jobs the exact same clothes just become your look, but I’m not sure what I’d think if a coworker did it. I guess I feel it doesn’t take that much more work to buy 2 black pants + 3 different colored shirts rather than just black pant and shirt. I’m a big believer in buying multiple colors of things you love and that fit you well.

        1. I agree that it sends a weird message unless you’re at the very top of the totem pole. I would never think “They’re too busy coming up with brilliant ideas to spend even a moment choosing an outfit”. I would think “Ew, how often do they wash their clothes” or “Why do they find it too hard to throw together an outfit?”

          I get keeping it simple. But you can buy black sweaters with different necklines. Or buy that one turtleneck in a few different neutral colors.

        2. Yup. Makes life easier. I want to look nice for work, but I don’t need to win any points for creativity in what I wear.

        3. Steve Jobs had a lot of pretty unpleasant sounding work-quirks. Obviously, the fact that he was a genius outweighed them, but he wasn’t someone you’d be eager to work with if his work was on par with a normal co-worker.

        4. There’s a guy a two levels above me who wears head-to-toe black, every day (casual to business-casual workplace). It’s just his thing, he occasionally gets teased for it but nothing major.

    3. If it’s wrong I don’t want to be right. I have 6 of the same dress in different colors. I don’t care enough about my job to go through the effort of picking special outfits

      1. Totally different if it’s obvious they’re not literally the same outfit. In this question, it’s not similar or even identical outfits, but the same exact set of clothing.

    4. My husband has to wear certain items for work and has 5 of each item. He’s a heavy sweater, so you could probably tell if he hadn’t work a fresh set daily. I kind of envy this.

    5. Fine to pick the same style and rotate. A little odd to wear the exact same thing every day. And an absolute nonstarter to not wash your clothes!

    6. Beside the point, but it’s a personal pet peeve when people bring up, in the past they didn’t wash clothes every day!

      In the past, they had a whole nother layer of underclothes between their skin and their outer clothes. Those underclothes got washed regularly. The overclothes got spot cleaned as needed because they mostly didn’t touch your skin.

      1. Also, people in the part were gross. If we were ever to actually go back in time, we’d spend the whole time just trying to acclimate to the smells that people who lived then learned to block out. At least until we dropped dead of a waterborne illness.

    7. I don’t understand people who create drama for themselves.

      Assume, arguendo, these garments are clean every day. Maybe you’re washing them every day. Maybe you have seven identical shirts and slacks.

      Just… get a few different blouses or shirts with the same cut, pants of the same cut in a few different hues, and no one will notice or care.

      The effort for daily laundering or for having people look at you weirdly because your entire wardrobe is the same… just… put in some truly minimal effort. Have six outfits and wear them on repeat.

    9. I think you can absolutely get 5 pants and 5 blouses that all functionally work together, wear them every day, and no one will ever notice (in many roles & industries).

      Exact same copy of the same clothes (Steve Jobs style) ironically requires MORE thought and emphasis on your clothes (in my world, that you’re trying to be Steve Jobs, or Elizabeth Holmes). So you can do it, but if you’re trying not to think or have other people think about your clothes, don’t do it.

      Yes, if anyone can tell how often you wash your clothes, change it up. If in any doubt, wash every day.

  13. If you’re looking for a “good faith” explanation: have these comments been made right off the bat, or were they made after numerous complaints? I wonder if it comes not only from “you chose this” but also from a place of “you chose this and are clearly doing nothing to change it.”

    I see the big law matter as different from the other two. And I say this from someone in big law: No one wants to hear about how stressful it is that you are in a profession that is known to be stressful, particularly if you are being paid the big bucks to do so. Not every friend is the right audience for every complaint. Big law complaints are best shared with those leading the same lifestyle.

    But yes, your friends may just be mean if they say someone with a bad spouse is stuck because they chose that person. That’s part of what makes it so hard to leave a bad spouse — fear of that judgement.

    1. Yeah, I’ve learned that my closest girlfriends are not the people I go to when I’m feeling frustrated about anything related to being a working mom. They were SAHMs until their kids hit middle school, and now they work in very part-time unicorn jobs. We are not the same in this way, and I learned that I cannot get the support and empathy I’m looking for in this crowd.

      TBH, the other examples are harder. I would have a hard time not judging the friend who willingly had a kid with a deadbeat. I would not say that to her, and I would try to support her in whatever way I could, but yeah … I would forever question her judgment in that particular area. Her choices don’t affect just her; it affects the kid, too. The friend with the bad marriage — well, divorce is no picnic, either, especially when you have to continue to co-parent.

    2. Yeah I hear you on the biglaw complaint. After my initial shock, I moved around a bit until I found a better firm. Now if I complain about work it’s usually, these kids (associates) are driving me crazy! And at this point in our careers, we pretty much all manage 25 year olds who are driving us crazy.

      I included biglaw as an example because I’ve seen the trend over time (15+ years). I brushed it off when it was me. I’m having a harder time now that it’s directed at people who are facing real challenges. Like, being a single mom is hard! Even if she is essentially a single mom by choice — if she had gone to a sperm bank I wouldn’t begrudge her complaining about being tired because she spent the night in the ER with a sick toddler. Some stuff just sucks and it’s ok to acknowledge it sucks.

  14. Is it out of line to try to influence your spouse’s style?

    DH has been very lucky to not change sizes like, at all, since we were married 20+ years ago and tends to keep clothes until they’re completely worn out. Which is fine, but it also means that his sense of style has never quite evolved? He is not a guy who cares about clothing much, and he dresses appropriate for the occasion, but I find myself wishing he’d upgrade a bit. Like dude, you make a very good living. You don’t need designer clothes by any means, but moving on from Old Navy would be GREAT. Most of the men we hang out with socially dress well and are willing to spend a little more to get a better fit and styling. And, I find myself wishing that DH would do that, too, because it hits differently when a 48-year-old is wearing stuff that’s fine but blah. I’m fine with him having a very casual style and don’t expect him to radically change how he dresses, but I really wish he’d care more about fit, style, and color. When I’ve bought him nicer stuff in the past (a Patagonia better sweater, for example), he usually returns it.

    One of our kids did tell him that he wears logo’ed quarter zips from work too often, and he did take that feedback, heh.

    1. is it just on principle he doesn’t want to spend that much on clothing? maybe try brands like Uniqlo to get a more modern fit without tons of $?

    2. Why did he return the Patagonia (and other nicer options)? Style, price, or something else?

      1. Both, I think? In the case of the Patagonia, I was trying to find him something similar to things he wears, but nicer in fit and quality.

        1. If it was a gift from me and it fit, I would not permit him to return it. He would be compelled to wear it every so often.

          Throw away the receipt and remove the tags

          1. I had to scroll up to make sure this question was about a grown man, not a 4 year old, because I have a rule like this for my 4 year old. I definitely do not have it for my 40 year old husband. What an odd comment.

          2. Only odd if you have stunted reading comprehension. A gift that fits from your spouse does not get returned. Period.

          3. It certainly can if he doesn’t like it, because he’s an independent human and my gifts are not prison sentences.

            Do you just keep the divorce lawyer on retainer, or do you get a new one each time?

    3. So it sounds like you’ve tried to get him to upgrade and he resists? This sounds like something you’re stuck with, unfortunately. Will he dress nicer for certain occasions if you ask him to? Like, “Honey, I’d really love it if you’d wear that new shirt I got you to the Nutcracker tomorrow. It’d make the outing more special for me.”

    4. This is the kind of thing about which I would be able to have a conversation with my husband: “Dude, you make a very good living and you’re not a kid any more. I wonder whether you would be willing to let me help you upgrade your wardrobe to improve the fit and style.” And if he resists, get curious and find out what is the stumbling block.

      1. I have tried, and he agrees, and then ends up resisting. And I get it on some level; change is hard, and he has never had the types of body changes that force most of us to try new things.

        1. But stuff wears out. Colors fade. Fabric pills. Necklines lose their shape. You can’t wear literally the same pieces for years and look ok, even if you haven’t changed sizes.

        2. I’m guessing the “he agrees” part is him trying to make you happy and the “ends up resisting” is that he didn’t actually want to do something different. Can you do some (genuinely) curious listening about what’s underneath the resistance? Will he talk to you at that level?

          It could be that he genuinely doesn’t care about clothes, and doesn’t want to care. Or there could be any number of things fueling that resistance — maybe he never thought he was one of the “cool guys” who could wear nice clothes. Maybe his family didn’t place any value on dressing well — or they placed too much value. Maybe it makes him feel self-conscious or awkward. Maybe he feels stupid about style and doesn’t want to learn because he doesn’t care enough to want to put in the work. Maybe he feels like wearing nice clothes means he’s become the kind of suburban guy he never wanted to be or he’s losing his youth. Who knows.

          1. Honestly, I think it’s a combination of several of these things. I probably need to back off.

        3. Doesn’t sound like he’s really agreeing then; he’s capitulating. And I think the ask is a little gross and snobby – how would your request feel if your partner was making it of you? “Love you but need you to look more grown-up or fancy?” You asked, he answered; this is who he is. Geez.

    5. You’ve been married to him for 20+ years . . . what’s your take on:
      1. How he would respond to this kind of request from you, and what he would need in order to make it palatable to him?
      2. What’s your best guess about why he returns the stuff you buy him? Has he ever said anything?

    6. Is he open to help? When he returned the sweater, was there a conversation about it?

      DH likes when I buy him clothes, in part because it’s generally for an occasion that he would struggle to know what to wear — say my firm’s polo outing, or something else outside of his day to day. Not only have I bought him something nice but I’ve given him the gift of deciding what to wear. And after he’s worn it once he will wear it again because he knows how to style it. Maybe if you buy him something for a specific occasion he will be more likely to keep it?

    7. Tailor the Old Navy? I doubt it fits him right if he hasn’t gained a bunch of weight!

    9. I’ve had success by replacing his worn out pieces with better versions. My husband is six feet tall and looks like the mannequin. Lots of Vince and Todd Snyder has replaced lots of target brand and worn out gap. I’ve also had luck with Ted baker pants. He’s always going to wear simple clothes but they’re inherently more stylish when I upgrade them. So it’s not a full style change but a little nudge. Hope that helps.

    10. Maybe try to find out what kind of style he actually likes, and secretly would love to dare to try?

      It’s of course possible that he genuinely finds clothes to be a pain, but it could also be that he’d secretly love to dress like Steve McQueen, or David Bowie, or be a more dapper version of himself. He definitely doesn’t want to look like you friends’ husbands.

      But if he likes wearing things to the ground, he might like the Buy it for LIfe kind of style advice. I enjoy the youtube channel The Iron Snail, he has a very specifc style and tests different versions and price points. Utilty jackets, denim, chinos, sweaters and tees, but good quality ones chosen with care, and reviews of both Uniqlo and other brands as well.

      1. My husband despises spending money on clothing, but mostly unbeknownst to himself is a bit of a fabric snob. He doesn’t know how much I spent on some all organic cotton t-shirts that he can’t stop raving about. It’s not that hard to upgrade from Old Navy and Hanes when it comes to a nice soft fabric.

        I can also get him to wear something nice if I thrifted it.

    11. My husband takes any fashion advice as criticism and is very defensive. I would tread lightly here. I guess it makes sense. We probably wouldn’t appreciate our spouse telling us what to wear either!

      1. My husband keeps dropping hint after hint about “matching sets” and I have to remind him that I find the whole notion of a matching set that isn’t my pajamas ridiculous.

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