Coffee Break: Annette Mary Jane

130 Comments

1. Can we continue the discussion of the Nancy Guthrie case? The latest updates now include photos/video from her door cam.

   1. Can you do it somewhere else? It’s incredibly upsetting and jarring to read about and I think it’s ghoulish to keep revisiting it here. I’m collapsing the threads but you put yours first thing with hints of scary footage.

      1. Please consider the first sentence of the post your trigger warning.

         1. Cool, I’ll bear that rule in mind when I want to discuss girls drowning at Camp Mystic or mothers being shot in MN.

            1. @4:43 🤔 ??? go ahead it’s an open discussion forum, right?

            2. This is still an active story where there is still interesting stuff to discuss. The Camp Mystic posts here stretched on for weeks despite there being nothing new to discuss, so people were just casting blame (on the parents, the camp, the religion, etc.) or making it about themselves. That’s why those posts got pushback.

            3. Disagree, another lawsuit was just filed against Camp Mystic (by the parents of the one missing camper) and the details are damning. It’s still a very relevant and current negligence issue for a board of lawyers, whereas shock and horror about the Guthrie case is rubbernecking.

            4. If you want to post the complaint and highlight what the new allegations are, you are welcome to see if anyone else here still cares.

      2. Where can we submit topics for your review prior to posting? Your sensibilities are of great concern. How can we make this a safer, more comfortable space for you, personally?

         1. Thanks for asking! Not gawping at someone’s personal tragedy would be a great place to start.

            1. I think you are trying to control something that is completely out of your reach, and it comes across as pathetic. If you were truly avoiding the subject you would scroll past.

   2. Damn that is disturbing

   3. Wow I am so glad that they have something to go on now. So many different theories but now they have a suspect. I hope they continue to make progress. With all of the advances in technology, I hope they can get more clues to find her. You would think that neighbors’ ring cameras would also show something!

      1. I heard that Kash Patel said they had to get it from the tech companies on the backend, residual data. Not sure if the kidnapper took the camera, deleted the footage, or destroyed it somehow.

   4. I really really really hope the family doesn’t recognize him as a family member.

      1. I am guessing he isn’t since we know the size and gait of our close family at least. But he hid so much of everything in a way that you wonder why she’d even open the door? But he has gloves on to not leave prints because he is in the system already or would be included in any roundup of people in her midst or their families.

         1. Was it definitely a man? Saw some speculation that it looked like groomed eyebrows/eye make up and could have been a woman wearing a lot of clothes.

            1. IDK but plenty of men now do eyebrow grooming. Granted the person seems to be padded up but the build more resembles my husbands shape and weight distribution than mine. It could be a woman — you never know. But I just feel that I look for horses, not zebras.

            2. it’s a man. He has a mustache.

   5. Well, NBC just interrupted its prime time Olympics coverage to talk about it, which IMO was an incredibly poor choice on their part.
      I mean damn, if I see that “special report” chyron in the middle of the Olympics, I’m assuming you’re reporting a major terrorist attack. Not doing 10 minutes of “let’s show the doorbell cam footage 6 times and wildly speculate.”

      1. I mean they’re begging anyone anywhere who knows something to come forward. Free exposure during the Olympics seems a pretty good way to get the message out?

2. What do you consider yourself socioeconomically? For me it’s a question if I’m upper middle class or lower upper class. What are the lines for you?

   1. Straight middle class

      1. Same

   2. i had never heard the term upper class previously, so I just looked it up. by the definition i found in 2026, we would meet the criteria, though I think the numbers i found look very low for where we live. I dont think numbers by state are very helpful as there is a huge difference between NYC vs. upstate new york for example. I consider our family to be upper middle class, but DH is the breadwinnner

      1. Curious – Did you think middle class was the top tier?

         1. She probably was referring to “lower upper class,” which isn’t a term I’ve ever heard either.

   3. I think if your income is 80%ile plus for your location, you’re rich. And that scales as you how much of the rest of the world you care about – so yeah, most SF workers should be thinking of themselves as “rich in the US”, despite high housing costs. And most Americans should be thinking of themselves as “globally rich”.

      1. I totally agree that it makes sense to look at incomes/wealth of everyone else to assess. I get super annoyed when someone is in something like the 90-98th percentile for their region and considers themself middle class.

   4. I’m living in a “slums of Beverly Hills” situation where my grandparents didn’t find my boarding school or college with Ed/med gifts, I don’t have a trust fund or country club membership that our family has been at since it was founded, a beach house, or a mountain house. I winter where I summer, because I have a job that makes it all possible. So I am well off but don’t feel it in the bubble I see every day. IRL I am from rural people with outhouses for the generation prior to me earlier in their lives.

   5. Background is low upper class. SES status is same (HHI $350kish in CA Bay Area).

   6. Honestly? Rich. We’re not close to 1%ers nationally (~180k HHI) but we live in a LCOL area so we can buy everything we need and almost everything we want. We save very well and still have a lot of disposable income for vacations and experiences. Having only one kid and not having student loans are big factors in this as well, it’s not all about income and cost of living.

   7. I have an upper class salary, but that is new, and I have debt, so no wealth. On that basis, I would put myself at middle class with the potential to rise to upper middle at some point, but I actually just feel broke.

      1. I relate to those lines about “technically I’m rich, but I thought it would feel better than this.”

         1. Same here! We are on track for retirement and for our kid to graduate college with no debt, but after retirement savings and tuition payments we feel cash-poor. Our house is falling apart, we still have grad school furniture, and we are trying to figure out how on earth we can afford to buy the car the kid needs to fulfill the practicum requirements for her degree. We are rich on paper but not in lifestyle.

            I also feel like all the money we have invested for retirement doesn’t actually exist, because it could easily evaporate before we need it.

   8. Definitely globally rich and shockingly lucky to live in this time and place. That said, I struggle with this. Low cost of living area; HHI $160,000; 2 kids.

      Upper middle class makes the most sense to me (nice suburban home, enough savings that I’m not worried about life’s little disasters, the ability to afford nice extras). But I also recognize we’re really lucky in expenses (husband stays home with the kids, never had any major disasters, generous in-laws fund a lot of extras, bought a house during the recession that we could never afford now). So I feel a little dismayed that we’re not socking away a huge amount of savings and we’re still, say, putting off getting much needed new flooring or furniture. The majority of clothes shown here still feel wildly expensive!

      But we’re much better off then I was growing up, which I would call lower-ish middle class (scrimping and worried about bills at the end of the month, but never (to my knowledge) at a serious risk of going without necessities). I’m not always sure that’s better for the kids, though, to see this as the norm.

   9. I grew up lower middle class to true middle class with fluctuations (loss of parent’s job, but then inheritance from grandparents and boomer parents who benefitted from housing costs). Husband is similar. We’re now upper middle class but we have enough exposure to generational wealth to know that’s a totally different ballpark and we may never get there.
      Overall I think growing up with less money than you have as an adult is the cheat code to happiness. Every time I order in on a weeknight, buy the brand name clothing, or take a nice vacation I feel pretty darn rich!

   10. we’re wondering if we can retire now so we don’t feel very rich. technically though i think we’re lower upper class. there was an interesting definition i saw on reddit a while ago about how lower income families can’t support themselves, they need government assistance. middle class families are able to support themselves but not necessarily to save for retirement or vacations. upper class families can support themselves and save for the rest of it all.

   11. I’ve never considered it and I truly do not care

       1. Sounds like something a rich person would say. The best kind of rich though, a kind that is content that they’ve always had enough and isn’t striving to keep up with the Joneses.

       2. What a strange thing to say. Shrinking middle class, stratification of economic classes, unchecked capitalism have all been major political and economic conversations for my entire life (I’m in my 40s). You sound like a very uncurious person…

   12. Before we retired, Hubby and I used to say we were the “working rich.” Now I guess we’re rich-but-not-generational-rich. It feels a lot like upper middle in our VHCOL area, though.

   13. Solidly top 5% – do not consider myself middle class, but not rich, rich as we both mostly rely on jobs for income. Probably your traditional definition of working upper class. Definitely have to check my privilege routinely, especially when say “oh, I have a guy for that” or having freedom to say, “so do you want to fly to NYC to see this ballet.”

       1. Wild to think that you’re not rich but you’re in the top 5%.

   14. I feel like we’re near the top of the bottom of the K in the K shaped economy. I can’t complain, but these last years, things have kept getting worse for people who make less than us or similar, while people who were always better off before are now unreachably far off, like in another stratosphere? I have no idea where that line falls though in terms of class, but it feels like a new split. Even how much a lot of simple things cost seems to have split this way (like I used to eat at the same restaurants or get my hair done at the same salons as people who made more money even if it was a stretch, but the prices have gone up a lot).

   15. Probably upper middle class? DH and I grew up in straight middle class families. As adults we can afford our essentials and some fun things, have healthy savings accounts, and not worry a ton about day-to-day finances. We live in a nice house, but I attribute that mostly to good luck and living in the Midwest. But we can’t stop working anytime soon, and we don’t have eff-off money to blow on whatever, as my DH likes to say.

   16. I grew up ranging from “poverty, but with extended family that could help keep us from being homeless on the streets” to “lower middle class” by the time I graduated high school. Now, I think I’m probably middle class, but being middle class sure doesn’t mean what it used to. Almost broke 6 figures last year between my husband and I, which seems like insane amounts of money on the one hand, but on the other it’s still not enough to feel financially stable while raising a family.

   17. There are other indicators besides current wealth – do you own valuable antiques handed down by family? Did you inherit wealth from grandparents or farther back (rather than just your own parents)? Are you aware of who your ancestors were more than three generations back? Etc.

       1. I do think that needing to financially support parents (vs. getting help from them) makes me feel like I’m on a different path from people with the same HHI.

       2. I’m aware of my ancestors going back to the 1200’s, not sure what that has to do with wealth or lack thereof. More like luck that the relevant records were maintained in an unbroken manner for so long.

          1. The kinds of bad luck that prevent the unbroken maintenance of records and can have other effects. A lot of us don’t have this kind of awareness because of big disruptions.

             1. Huh? My point was that knowing your ancestry doesn’t mean you are financially wealthy, not at all, and it’s a weird flex not based in reality if the poster thinks otherwise. We have family trees photocopied from the old bibles that came over back in the 1500s, with binders of info from a great grandma whose genealogical research turned up lots of interesting corroborating documents from historic records in the Old Countries.

                Now? We range from hovering around the poverty line to basic middle class. There are one or two households who have stretched to upper middle class in their LCOL area, but there are no other markers of material wealth. No trust funds, no valuable art or antiques, no inheritances beyond Meemaw’s 1987 Buick or Aunt Ethel’s rusted out single wide on the original 40 acres in BFE Hillbillyville. Knowing those family trees doesn’t magically turn into wealth.

   18. According to the Pew calculator, our HHI and family size in our metro area puts us firmly in the center of middle class. I think we have a much better long-term financial outlook than many in our peer group, though, because we have lived beneath our means in order to put kids through college without debt and aggressively saved towards retirement.

       Many of our friends are struggling with inflation costs and are starting to worry about whether they will ever be able to afford retirement. I’m over here calculating how early I can retire.

   19. I’m pretty sure we are upper class, but not 1%. I *feel* upper middle class but that’s because we are pretty diligent savers and also live in a HCOL area. So while we make $350k a year for a family of 5, we live in a 1970s style 4BR / 2.5 bath colonial that last had its bathrooms re-done in 2006 that would sell for $1.5M if listed today. DH and I have a combined net worth of about $3.5M about $500k of which is in Roth post tax dollars.

       Here are some benchmarks:
       – we are in our early 40s and have very comfortably saved for retirement
       – we can pay for big ticket items (eg. a replacement vehicle) in cash, if needed
       – we plan to fully fund college for our 3 children and while private college would be tight, we can still do it.

       We do not have a second home, but could if we lived in a less expensive part of the country or prioritized our retirement differently. We will likely inherit substantial money from DH’s parents who were born poor, went to college and rose to white collar upper midlevel management their whole lives and just stored money away to the tune of sitting on $5M in their 80s (and will not likely move through it in the next 20 years).

       1. You’re obviously doing very well but I wouldn’t count on a huge inheritance. $5M goes faster than you think when you’re paying end of life caregiving expenses, especially for two people. My grandparents retired with a similar amount and their two children each only got a few hundred thousand in inheritance. Which is fine – the children understood that their parents’ money was first and foremost to keep them comfortable at the end of their lives. It just goes really fast.

   20. High Income, Not Rich Yet

       We are at about 93rd percentile household income for our metro area but enough children that our per capita income is only 7% higher than the median per capita income for the metro area, which still makes it feel tight even though I know objectively we are “upper class.” The “lower upper class” label feels about right.

   21. Upper middle class maybe? The middle class is such a huge range that there is a big quality of life difference at the different ends of the spectrum. My husband and I are both lawyers, but work for the government so not making tons of money but making more than our parents ever did. I was raised by a single mom on a teacher’s salary, so compared to my upbringing I feel very well-off but I also have to budget and can’t travel as much as I want and am in somewhat of a panic about affording college for my kids.

   22. Bay Area middle class. We’d be rich in a lower cost of living area, all other things being equal.

   23. Based on online quizzes, I’m upper middle class. Based on my bank account, I’m completely poverty-stricken. It’s a really fun dichotomy.

   24. Grew up definitely upper class/rich, but I personally am probably more lower upper class or upper middle class. I assumed we were middle class growing up, but my husband is true middle class and we had vastly different upbringings. It’s been interesting viewing my family through his eyes…and we have definitely had some sticking points to work through together.

   25. If you are thinking about this, the answer is either lower or (more likely) middle. More likely it’s a matter of wealth, which is very different to class.

       No amount of money can buy good breeding, but it might allow your offspring to marry into it.

       Before anyone replies, yes I also find it rather distasteful…

   26. Upper class usually means you inherited enough money that you don’t have to work. You inherited your residence(s). You live off investments/trusts. Middle class means anyone with a paycheck, which is why we have subdivisions (upper middle, lower middle). Poor and working class are not necessarily the same. It’s more like blue and white collar. You can be blue collar and upper middle class.

       I think it’s an interesting topic.

3. I’m going on a trip to Hawaii soon and would love to get recommendations from the hive on a sunscreen that has high spf, does not leave a whitish cast, and is not too greasy or smelly. Bonus points if it is reef friendly. Thank you so much!

   1. Japanese sunscreens are the best. Biore UV Aqua Rich Watery Essence Sunscreen SPF 50+ PA++++ is my favorite, but they’re all pretty great. It’s a milky texture and feels more like putting on moisturizer than sunscreen.

      Just don’t be fooled by the American version– they’re not as good. Currently working through my stockpile from visiting Japan, but I’ve previously purchased through YesStyle.

      1. Agree with all of this. Any brand asian sunscreen is going to be better than a US sunscreen.

         In terms of “reef safe” this is worth reading. Mayyyyybe sunscreen is a (low on the list) harm to coral, but it’s mostly industrial pollution/global warming, and instead of addressing that, we’re just telling people to feel guilty about their sunscreen.

         https://labmuffin.com/is-your-sunscreen-killing-coral-the-science-with-video/

   2. The best I’ve used is the Thrive that Wirecutter recommends in the reef-safe sunscreen article. I think the various Japanese options folks recommend aren’t reef-safe, which is a bummer, as is basically all reef-safe sunscreen itself.

   3. The reef friendly products are mineral based.

   4. European sunscreens especially La Roche Posay are the most protective ones I’ve found. They’re not reef safe though and are expensive to import. I stock up on trips to the EU/UK.

   5. I feel like reef friendly should be. requirement not a bonus.

      1. +1

   6. I like Coola spray sunscreen for Hawaii–it’s reef safe and all the highly moisturizing sunscreens feel so gloppy and cloying in humidity, so I do not prefer those. For my face when Scuba diving, I like the reef-safe zinc-only special Neutrogena SPF 50 (i’m a pale girlie). For non-active, I like supergoop or Dr. Dennis Gross.

      Have fun!

   7. The ones that are reef friendly are going to leave a white cast. ThinkSport is a reef friendly brand I’ve used in the Caribbean.

   8. For reef friendly, MD Solar Science mineral creme. It will leave a slight whitish cast but not nearly as bad as a lot of mineral sunscreens I’ve tried (which if you want reef safe, I think it will have to be), not greasy or smelly, and you will not burn. Even my blindingly white husband who can’t spend 10 minutes outside without sunscreen doesn’t burn with this stuff. It is expensive, but they run 30% off sales relatively frequently–follow them on social media.

4. Ranting into the void because I can’t anywhere else ATM. I just found out I need my FOURTH endometriosis surgery. I’m just so tired of this.

   1. I’m so sorry. Hug?

   2. Oh, I’m really sorry. That just sucks.

   3. I’m sorry, it must be exhausting and disheartening. It is a difficult condition. Sending you a virtual hug!

   4. I am so sorry. It is not an easy, breezy procedure. I’m wishing you healing thoughts and hope that you don’t need another surgery for a very long time, if ever.

   5. Do you also need another endometriosis surgeon?

      1. Endometriosis almost always returns. It’s rotten that way.

         1. Yup, it grows back.

         2. Some surgeons really do have much lower (or higher) recurrence rates though. Some surgical approaches are also much worse than others.

            Nancy’s Nook has good information.

            1. Finding Nancy (and for those in the area, the Greater Boston Endo Support Group) literally saved my life.

      2. Thank you, this is my third surgeon actually. After a long road I am finally in good hands .

   6. thank you everyone, your support really helped on a very hard day.

      1. I really hope this next surgery will go really well for you, that it will succeed, that recovery will go well, and that your day to day life will be improved going forward.

5. Does anyone have any good recipes for white fish or flounder? So bored with the one we always do.

   1. pan fry in a little butter/ garlic/ white wine? air fry? what is the current recipe>

   2. Sprinkle it with cayenne pepper and black pepper. Top it with mango or pineapple salsa. Bake. Have more salsa on the side.

   3. Cover it with lime juice and sprinkle taco seasoning on it before baking.

   4. I made a NYT Cooking recipe for cod with harissa butter and lemon last week and it was very tasty! I’m sure you could use a different white fish. I did not have harissa paste, so I just mixed my harissa spice blend into the butter.

   5. A few go-tos:
      – Ali Slagle’s sour cream and onion fish
      – Pan sear with sliced lemon and capers and a little white wine
      – With a spicy hoisin sauce

   6. Pan fry in a little canola oil and season liberally with shichimi togarashi.

      Or dredge in a mixture of flour and LOTS of paprika before pan frying.

      Or brush with a thin coating of mayonnaise, sprinkle heavily with everything bagel seasoning, and bake.

   7. I like it in west African okra stew (the one with salt and red palm oil).

   8. Fish tacos?

6. I have a rant/question and 2 kids’ sports rants, feel free to collapse if not interested ;)

   – How in the world do you wash a beauty blender? I use hot water and dish soap, wash in soap and then rinse out all soap, and then if I squeeze it with a paper towel around it, it will put foundation onto the paper towel FOREVER. Is this just the way it is? Grr.

   – For the love of Pete, please do not change the schedule of the track meet TEN MINUTES before it starts! Parents have jobs! We can’t always spend another 2 hours waiting for our kid’s event!

   – Let’s change volleyball culture so that girls are not wearing 3″ (or shorter) shorts and pulling them down their legs between points EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. It is so uncomfortable for them and then also uncomfortable for the parents to watch!

   Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

   1. I’ll add a sports rant: male non-skiers need to STFU about Lindsey Vonn. Her crash wasn’t due to her age or her ACL. She took an aggressive line to win and it didn’t pay off. That’s ski racing.

      1. +1. Everyone needs to STFU about Lindsey Vonn.

         1. Except to say that she’s tough, strong, and inspired a generation of athletes.

      2. Also, what Breezy accomplished was completely overshadowed by Lindsay and that’s a darn shame. Winning a gold is a HUGE accomplishment.

   2. The fact that volleyball shorts are still SO tight and short is wild to me.

      1. Yeah, essentially underwear. We called them “buns”. The guys would come to games just to oggle at our cheeks sliding out the bottom when we moved. Our coach finally banned them, and we thanked her.

         1. This. I’m the working what if you are from a modest dressing background? I’m not Muslim but feel that you should be able to participate in sports without being exposed or needing to wax.

            1. In US public schools at least I would assume due to the first amendment you’d have to be given a modified uniform if it was for a religious reason. It would be better if everyone could have more coverage though.

   3. I thought dancers used a special glue to keep their uniforms from riding up? I vaguely remember hearing about it when the olympics team revolted because their uniforms were so tiny.

      1. Firma-grip is what I’ve heard about. I should try that to keep my silky wrap dresses from sliding open.

   4. I use cleansing balm on my beauty blender because it seems more effective at removing foundation than anything else.

      1. +1 I use a cleansing oil first and then face wash on my beauty blender. It still looks stained but the water rinses clear after two washes.
         Youth sports are the bane of my parenting life. My older kiddo is doing a musical plus a travel league and was out of the house yesterday from 8am to 9:15pm. Thank god the musical wraps up soon because this is insanity.

         1. My son decided to not do the spring musical, and I’m sad to say that I’m overjoyed. Because as much as I love seeing him perform, it is utter insanity, especially during tech weeks. Last time, we spent another month cleaning up the mess that 2 weeks of tech week created.

            1. I did plays and musicals in high school in the 1900s as the kids say. While we had long days and weekend rehearsals every now and again it was NEVER as involved as it is now. This isn’t Broadway or a traveling company, the schools can chill a bit.

            2. I work in theater (Broadway actually) and there is a whole movement to get the rules around work hours during tech weeks changed. Even for pros, they are insane.

            3. 5:23, I couldn’t agree with you more. Kids get burned out and then don’t want to participate. It’s that way with so many things these days, and I hate it.

      2. I just toss them and use a new one.

   5. Amen!

      Re the shorts, I’m assuming that boys and men’s volleyball would never, so if they can compete without them, maybe the girls and women can also? I’d have needed a good waxing as a teen, so would have been too embarrassed to be on a team with uniforms like that.

      1. And why is it that male gymnasts and ice skaters can perform in actual athletic pants or shorts?

         1. Ice skaters at least have thick tights so although you look bare you really aren’t and there’s no waxing required.

   6. Amen on the schedule change. I swear my kids’ public middle and high school think it’s 1956, not 2026, and all of us housewives will pull off our Betty Draper aprons and drive over to the school at the drop of a hat. No, I cannot cook then serve a hot meal at 4pm for 75 high-school kids. I am unavailable to bring a casserole to the teachers for the inservice day.

      1. I was SO happy when our most recent teacher appreciation day request simply asked for money. The class parents arranged for food delivery with an option for families to kick in additional funds if they wanted to cover those who couldn’t contribute.

         1. My kids’ grade school was way, way better about that kind of thing than the high school. It’s the same district, but different volunteer leadership. One of the women looked at me like I had three heads when I suggested allowing people to donate money for the teacher events.

      2. And weirdly, I’ve encountered more of this in high school than in elementary school!

         1. Someone should do a study on that! IME the middle and high school PTAs were dominated by women who didn’t work for pay and had all of their kids in full-time school, so every process took as long as humanly possible and was as low-tech as possible. I tried to be involved for several years post-grade school, but having any sort of position was SO time-consuming I felt I had to leave so I could be available for my kid applying to colleges! (Also the bullying finally worked, I got run off in the end.)

            1. I’ve noticed that my HS kid’s activities have very active parent groups overall. I do what I can, but I still work full-time, and many of the most involved parents don’t. Several also admit to having major FOMO if they’re not involved! Honestly, I am so incredibly grateful for everything they do, because it makes a real difference for the kids’ experiences, so I’m really not snarking on them. I often wonder if I’d make a bigger impact being that kind of parent rather than a burned out employee who does the bare minimum as a school volunteer.

            2. I’m sorry if my comment sounded snarky – that wasn’t at all my intention. I am grateful for the efforts of the volunteers at the middle and high schools, but in my case, they made it so difficult to volunteer I had to bow out.

   7. You should be washing your beauty blender every time you use it, so this should not be happening

   8. Confession: I just buy a ton and thrown out the beauty blender every two weeks. Yes it is wasteful, but… oh well.

   9. I gave up on beauty blenders because they were impossible to clean. I use brushes now and use Cinema Secrets liquid to clean them every single time I use them. I buy the set with the tin to swirl the brush in but any narrow container would do (narrow, because otherwise you use too much and waste it.)

      My favorite foundation brushes are double-ended because I like to use the smaller end for concealer. My current favorite double ended foundation brushes are:

      Makeup by Mario brush F1, Trish McEvoy wet/dry, and It Cosmetics No. 7 brush. My particular favorite is the Trish one, but that’s because everything that company makes is so, so good.

   10. I highly prefer the Real Techniques orange blender to the actual brand name beauty blender. Easier to clean, and cheaper, so I can replace them more often.

   11. Very late to the question, but I have a hack for this! I take my beauty blender into the shower with me and wash it with face wash while my conditioner does its job.

   12. For the beauty border, I swear by Neutrogena oil free eye make up remover. Then a wash with dish soap. Then through air drying.

       Sports…can’t help you there!

   13. Beauty blender – scrub it with bar soap after each usewo! Cheap and works like a charm.

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