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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Happy Monday! I haven't seen anything like this sweater before — maybe not ever — and I really like it. A ribbed waist is always great, and the pleated sleeves and cuffs (I always think of those as “Shakespeare cuffs;” if anyone knows the proper name please shout it out!) are a great surprise in a knit. I even like it as styled with a pencil skirt and an updo; I might add necklace (or two) to mitigate the crew neck. The sweater is $1,785 at Net-a-Porter. Alexander McQueen Pleated Stretch-Wool Sweater Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Cb
I love the shape of this. I had something in a similar shape (although clearly not $1700) from Noa Noa. The volume really balanced out the pencil skirt.
Baconpancakes
This sweater is freakin gorgeous. If anyone knows of anything similar currently for sale at a slightly more approachable price point, post the link, please!
anon-oh-no
this. im totally in love with this sweater. like just-ran-through-my-mind-whether-there-is-any-way-i-could-ever-spend-$1700-bucks-on-a-sweater in love.
Lisa
So 1980s guys! I swear, we dressed like this at least once a week.
Ellen
Yay! Splurge — NON-FRUEGEL — MONDAY’s! I love comeing into work on Monday’s!
As for the OP, I like it also. The high neck is great to keep Frank for stareing, which he is doieng right now! FOOEY! But it is so expensive that even if the manageing partner gives me 75%, it is still expensive! DOUBEL FOOEY!
Myrna and I had alot of fun with Roberta. She took us all around the Bronx and we went to her house afterward’s! She want’s me to meet her son from Philadelphia b/c she is AFRAID he is dateing a woman who likes to drink alot and she does NOT want alchoholism in the family. I told her all about Alan, and she agreed I could be the perfect match for him. I am a littel concerned b/c I can ONLY marry one guy, and all of the guy’s I am considering ALL have tie’s to the FIRM. Willem is a cleint, Micheal is the nephew of the Judge I get all my winnieng’s from in court, and Now, Roberta (another big cleint) has a son that want’s to meet and date me. It is SO difficult for a girl to find a guy just on the street or in a RESTRUNT, tho I kind of met GONZALO that way. But he was NOT interested in a releationship. He just wanted to paw me. FOOEY on Gonzalo b/c I saw him comeing out of an apartement on Lex one MORNING with his hand’s on another girl’s TUCHUS! And my dad says you could be sure they were NOT playing Parcheezi the NITE BEFORE! TRIPEL FOOEY!
Bonnie
Not a fan of this one. The waist detail is lovely but the high-neck makes it too severe for me.
tazdevil
Hmmm..I’m almost tempted to skip paying my mortgage and get this sweater instead!!
Monday
Potentially fun TJ: my brother’s wedding is this weekend and for my new SIL’s shower I am supposed to bring a bottle of wine marked to be opened on some future occasion in their marriage. What should I write? I don’t want to do anything conventional like “birth of first baby” or “closing on first home” because I don’t like assuming such things about what adult life looks like, and I’m also sure someone else will choose those anyway. Also nix to anything too s*xual because yo, it’s my brother. Ideas?
PS–I just got a totally 70s haircut and love it. Somehow I was just tired of hair that looked like other people’s (other people my age, anyway). If anyone else out there is harboring a strange, inexplicable desire for an outdated style, I say trust your gut!
Woods-comma-Elle
When you make up after your first fight as a married couple?
When your first child sleeps through the night?
On your one-month anniversary (because let’s face it, most people’s will be far in the future and that way they get to drink it sooner)
Woods-comma-Elle
Sorry I just re-read the bit about assuming things, so probably the child one is out then.
I’d say the first one is inevitable.
preg 3L
You could do a career one — supporting each other through a job search and finding a new job can be very tough, so maybe something like: when one of them gets a new job?
Amelia Bedelia
first promotion?
tk1
First insert holiday here. First time in-laws come for dinner. First night back from visiting in-laws.
AttiredAttorney
First dinner party where you use your wedding china?
Senior Attorney
Oh! I like this one!
LizNYC
After your first move as a married couple (Doesn’t assume homeownership — and we’ve all been there after trekking / unpacking 4 million boxes)
Before /after your 1st vacation
(depending on the climate) For your 1st blizzard together
Blonde Lawyer
Love the 1st blizzard idea. First power outage? That probably covers more climates.
Bonnie
Love first power outage.
LizNYC
Ah, much better! I’m just thinking ahead for where I live and (sincerely) hoping that we don’t have any power outages this winter!
CapHillAnon
First time that they re-gift a wedding present? (like giant pastel fish platters, ahem)
First time that they agree on a piece of furniture / art / souvenir as a couple?
The next awful movie they watch together?
The first time they catch themselves giving marriage advice to friends?
In the Pink
First home-cooked meal as marrieds!
Completion of writing thank-you notes for wedding gifts!
Having bridal/wedding portraits framed and hung on the wall!
Receiving all completed name-change papers/docs (driver’s license, health care cards, SSi, passport, checking accounts, etc) if appropriate!
Killer Kitten Heels
If I knew I had a nice bottle of wine waiting for me, I probably would’ve finished my thank you notes MUCH faster.
hellskitchen
First time they cook a special meal together as a couple
First time they try out an adventure sport together
CKB
I would do something more random, like first Friday the 13, or first march 3rd (or other random date). Make it kind of a just because bottle of wine.
Lynnet
How about: First time either of you thinks “I’m going to have to put up with this for the rest of my life?” That was the first time I really realized I was married, and I think turning it into a celebratory occassion might head off some of the fights that seem to occur during the first year of marriage as a result of that phrase…
Jordan
When feeling need to smash on spouses head, open and drink instead.
roses
Last night I was watching season 3 of Portlandia, and I realized…I think Ellen is really Fred Armisten’s character Nina (from episode 4). That is all.
Woods-comma-Elle
Speaking of jumpers/sweaters, any suggestions on good light materials for knits that aren’t super hot (ie not wool) but also don’t have that awful polyestery (I think it’s polyester that does this) sweat-inducing effect?
I’m looking to buy some relatively basic office jumpers, as all the ones I have tend to result in smelly armpits – is cotton base the way forward? Any particular brands anyone would recommend?
Cb
You’re UK based, right? M&S’s school jumpers. You may have to get in a kiddie tent to try them on but they hold up forever and are really comfortable. I wear a 12-14 womens and wear a 11-12 or 13-14 in boys. Not sure if they do cotton but I’ve also been impressed with my Benetton wool cardigan.
Mpls
You could try cotton, but if you do sweat in it, it’s going to stay next to your skin.
Stay away from acrylic – that’s probably the synthetic fiber that you’ve been running into. It’s a pretty common fiber in cheaper yarn and sweaters.
What weight of wool have you been trying? Lightweight merino wool would probably be your best bet for wool. Try avoiding anything with cable or other fancy stitches, since the stitch is denser (and uses more yarn) can hold in more heat, which it doesn’t sound like you need. Maybe even something with a little bit of an open stitch (which would still require wearing something underneath…
SA
I thought we were still on bottles on wine :)
Woods-comma-Elle
Thanks for the tips, CB yes am in London so will check out M&S.
Acrylic sounds right, I will steer clear – wool makes me itchy so I would have to wear long sleeves etc underneath which makes it hotter, but will look into the lightweight versions.
Mpls
Is it all wool? Have you noticed? I had an angora sweater that I tried on and would have kept, except for the itch factor, but merino wool doesn’t bother me at all. If it’s the wool itself, that’s one thing, but I think different types of wool and different types of knit stitches can make a difference.
Lynnet
I’m sure you probably know this, but angora isn’t wool, it comes from bunnies :) Lots of people are allergic to angora, so you probably are as well. I have a friend who can’t get within 5 feet of one of the bunnies without breaking out.
Lady Harriet
I have a lot of silk-blend sweaters that I’ve been really happy with, either silk/cotton or silk/nylon. Silk breathes very well, and it will keep you warm without overheating. It’s not as warm as wool, but the texture is great, and they layer well too.
Nonny
I have a lot of silk-blend sweaters that I’ve been really happy with, either silk/cotton or silk/nylon. Silk breathes very well, and it will keep you warm without overheating. It’s not as warm as wool, but the texture is great, and they layer well too.
Bonnie
You could also try wearing thin cotton tanks under your sweaters. It sounds counterintuitive, but helps with sweating problems.
NOLA
Okay, I did it. I created a tumblr this weekend! I’m going to be posting mainly about shoes and jewelry. Should be fun!
NOLA
Oh and click on my name to get to it…
zora
And I caved, too! ;o) I’m not really posting much yet, But I’d love to follow other r e t t e s, so if you’re on there come find me. also linked to my name above. Yay for gifs of Benny Cumberbatch and Matt Bomer, amirite???
Fireworks
Thanks to those that helped with my Friday date night outfit. I ended up wearing a short floral flouncy skirt from Target with a black tank top, three necklaces of varying lengths, a bracelet, a short jean jacket in a pinstripe material, and my standard Air Talia open toe shoes. I would have liked to wear little booties but I don’t really have any and I’m not sure what would look good with this outfit so looking for recommendations on that. Also, does anyone know of a good blog on youthful, casual date night type clothing?
cbackson
I think I may have just bought the same floral skirt, so I’m digging reading how you styled it!
Mpls
Heaven help you if you ever have to get this cleaned. Most cleaners I know don’t even like to deal with knife pleated skirts…
Anon
Knife pleats are not problematic for cleaners. Most skirts are knife pleated (box pleats are simply back to back knife pleats). The pleating on these sleeves looks like accordion pleats.
immigrationhelp
Sorry for the TJ. I’m looking for an experienced immigration lawyer based in any state (familiarity with Indochina migration act a plus). I know it’s a long shot but I’d really appreciate recommendations and/or tips to search for one.
Erica
Mira Mdivani, Mdivani Law Firm, is a fairly well known corporate immigration attorney, but doesn’t do individual immigration as far as I know. She’s based in the Kansas City area.
I also had a client whose immigration attorney was Leon Versfeld of Versfeld & Hugo. He does both business/corporate and individual. Versfeld & Hugo has a few offices in the US and a couple international offices.
immigrationhelp
Thanks so much Erica!!
hellskitchen
Mi Puyang at lawppa dot com. Based in Baltimore. I have used her services twice now – super efficient
immigrationhelp
Thank you!! I will check with her. Initially I assumed that I can work with anyone but one person told me I’d have to find someone based in my own state (TX) :(
Anon
Jonathan Grode, green & spiegel.
immigrationhelp
Thank you anon! I’m so grateful for quick feedback from everyone. Would you happen to know if I’m limited to someone from my state?
HappyHoya
Does anyone else here have issues with keeping a wrap dressed closed through normal daytime activities? They are flattering on me, easy to wear, and I have several that I wish I could wear more often. I have so much trouble keeping the bottom part securely closed. I either walk to work or use public transit and between the wind, people moving up against other people in crowds, maneuvering a bag through the crowds, I am pretty sure I’ve shown off more leg than I should have on numerous occasions. Even though I have a desk job, the wrap seems to be precarious even then.
I have tried on a larger size to see if having more fabric would help- it didn’t. I have tried using a safety pin to weigh down the bottom and keep the two pieces together, and all that happened was that other women were coming up to me saying my dress was caught and trying to smooth it out for me all day (seriously, 6 women, 4 of them complete strangers, tried to “help” me- I couldn’t tell if it was kind or rude but by the end of the day it was annoying). Right now, I only wear these dresses in the evening if I am going to be moving around very little. Does anyone else have this problem with wrap dresses? Has anyone found a solution to keeping them closed? I am going to get rid of the dresses if I can’t figure out how to make them work for my life.
Anonymous
Two suggestions: 1) wear a slip so you’re less concerned about flashing and 2) use a safety pin ~mid-thigh rather than at the hem. People noticed the pin when you used it at the hem because they’re used to seeing the hem of a wrap dress flutter.
Cat
I use the safety pin trick with success, pinning at mid thigh level — the hardest part is getting the pin placement right, because when you’re stooping over to insert the pin, you’re interfering with how the dress will hang when you’re walking around normally… hence the “helpful” ladies. So I stick one pin in a little haphazardly while standing as straight as possible to keep the fabric in the right place, then remove it after inserting the “real” hidden pin.
Even with that, though, I wear my wraps more often in fall trenchcoat weather so I don’t have to worry about it during the commute!
Anon
Wear a slip and/or use some double-stick tape to hold the slit to a certain level – tape it at your knee or mid-thigh, perhaps. The dress needs to move a little when you walk.
Small purse / clutch
A camisole-type slip (I have the shemie) AND fashion tape for the top work for my DVF wrap dress.
I have a land’s end wrap that is of a less slippery cotton blend fabric and can do that with just the slip (for wind / wearing tights) and skip the fashion tape.
TBK
I pin mine closed for walking but unpin when I get to work. I wonder if the fabric is part of the problem? I had only had cotton blend knit wrap dresses before, and the fabric has enough friction that they stay closed when I’m sitting at work, or anytime there isn’t wind. But one of my maternity dresses is a slippery synthetic knit and I definitely have more trouble keeping it closed while sitting at my desk.
Anonymous
Fabric tape. I use it to keep the top cleavage free and I assume it would work for the bottom as well.
Anon
Any advice for what to do if you can’t stand your boss? I work at a small firm and my boss is passive-aggressive and micromanages and often has unrealistic demands and I just can’t deal with him anymore.
Do I just need to find a new job?
Mpls
Yup.
Anon
Well, one of you has to go. Finding a new job is probably better for you from a legal standpoint.
anyanon
I’m in the same boat as OP Anon and have determined that murdering my boss is a bad way to proceed, so I’m looking for a new job. Same thing – micromanager, bossy, know-it-all boss.
Silvercurls
Search archives here and at AskAManager.org …. and also start looking for a new job. You might find some ways to cope at your present job while you’re trying to find your next position. You might also get peace of mind from realizing that although the situation is annoying / infuriating / etc. you are taking positive steps to change the way you respond in the present and to improve your job environment in the future.
S in Chicago
Just wanted to add that I have a close friend who went through several years in the same boat. Any time I brought up the importance of leaving, she had mentioned that it felt like letting him win. Not sure if there if there is any of this sentiment in you, but my friend finally came around after starting to think about the long haul. Even if you can make some headway with him over time, he will probably never be the type of boss that pushes you forward to grow in your career. Advancement needs new opportunities and faith from higher-ups that you will be capable to make the most of these opportunities–two factors that don’t come easily when someone directly over you doesn’t click with you. That alone should be reason enough to start looking elsewhere.
Hel-lo
To pharaphrase something I’ve seen – if you’re in competition with a pig, you just get muddy.
Just get out. You won’t change this jerk.
Stephanie
I had the same experience at a small firm. I left a mega law firm for this teensy boutique because they agreed to a three day work week and I had two kids under the age of two. What I didn’t realize is that some of the people who open firms like that are twelve kinds of insane, and basically can’t function around humans. He underpaid the associates, manipulated them when he could, spent hours lecturing about his own awesomeness on the one trial he ever did, and spent nights reading the newspaper instead of going home to his wife and small kids. Whackadoodle. I spent four years there and left when my dream job came along. I made some really good, very normal female friends there– one was fired by the egomaniac boss, one left promptly and said good riddance, one stayed longer, got very abused, eventually made herself sick with anxiety and general horror, then left. Now he has a whole new crop of associates (all youngish women, go figure) to torture so the cycle continues. The only way through it is out.
mascot
Ha, I worked for one of these types. Right down to mostly hiring young female associates .
Anon
OP here – I think a lightbulb may have just gone off in my head… there may be a reason why we only have young female associates.
and the job hunt that I’ve been doing half-heartedly is now going to the top of my priority list.
Austin
Does Anthr0pologie ever have store-wide sales?
I’ve got my eyes on the AG Steve Ankle Moto Cords in black (full name in case anyone is interested!) but $188 just hurts my heart. They fit amazing and I think they would be perfect for fall and winter. I can’t picture these making it to the sale room, and I don’t want to wait that long! What do you think my chances are of snagging these for less than full price? Any suggestions or tips?
On a related note, I can’t find these pants in any other online store – do brands do exclusive items for stores?
Anon
I think you get a 10% or 15% discount on your birthday month. Otherwise, their sales are only on sale items, and new sale items go up on Tuesdays.
Anonymous
They’ve actually moved the sales to Mondays. Birthday discount is 15%, so that’s probably your best bet if it’s coming up (or you know someone with one who would get them for you). Anon below mentioned that they had a full-price storewide discount (I think it was 20%) one Saturday a few weeks ago. That’s pretty rare and happens around the same time each year so the Anthro bloggers like Roxy at EA can predict it. I don’t think she has anything predicted other than regular cuts in the near future, and the disappointing-of-late tag sale in December.
The Stevie regular cords usually do hit sale but you sometimes have to hunt down your size/color (tho I think you can usually find them if you call enough stores). I don’t know about the specific ones you want though.
My Anthro philosophy is that if it’s something I will be really upset about it selling out in my size or if sale time means it will be totally out of season or late enough that I won’t get my planned use, I buy at full price. The rest I wait for sale, and potentially 2nd and 3rd cuts. YMMV, but something to think about. Anthro has a decent resale market if you decide to part with them after this season and get some of your money back.
Anonymous
I think for the AG Stevies, they are exclusive to Anthropologie, but sometimes AG names the same pants something else and they are sold elsewhere. For example, I think the Stevies are identical or substantially similar to the Stilts, which are sold elsewhere.
Anthropologie had a store-wide markdown (15%) a few weeks ago (9/21, I think) but I doubt they’ll do another one soon.
Austin
Y’all – thank you for the intel!!
job search help
Need Advice: I am a soon-to-be new grad. I have an offer from the firm I worked for this summer. This offer expires at the end of October and I have been looking around at boutique firms because I didn’t love the mega-firm I worked for this summer. I have had so-so luck, but have had a few phone interviews with one firm I really like. The problem is that the PROCESS IS GOING SO SLOWLY. They know I have a deadline, but still. On top of this, I am dealing with nearly daily calls/emails from my summer firm asking me when I am going to decide. Any words of wisdom for how to deal with all of this?
Senior Attorney
Honestly? If you are still in the process by the end of October, I would consider accepting the offer from the big firm and then rescinding your acceptance if you get the offer from the firm you really like.
Cat
Who is calling you from Summer Firm? If it’s the HR recruitment person, they are just trying to make themselves look good by getting all the summers to accept ASAP, and although the attorneys that worked with you may notice you haven’t get accepted the offer, at this point it’s clear that you’re considering other options (otherwise why hold out at all). By the time you start a year from now, none of them will remember.
If the attention is more personal, that’s harder, and I’d be inclined to agree with Senior Attorney’s advice (though mindful that if you do so, you won’t be able to try to go back to Summer Firm in the future).
job search help
The people contacting me are higher ups whom I worked with over the summer, so not HR. I’m thinking that the smaller place might get back to me before my deadline, but I am very concerned about staying on good terms with my summer firm. That’s why I am so nervous about all of this. People move around a lot in this particular specialty and it’s way too early in my career to be burning bridges. I want the guys from my summer firm to be good references and resources in the future, even if I don’t go work for them. Having to rescind would be worst case scenario in my mind.
Hel-lo
Yeah, I don’t agree with the idea to accept an offer and then rescind. That’s “burning a bride” in my book.
All you can do is remind the folks calling you that you’re waiting to hear something from someone else by XYZ date, so it’s a waste of their time to keep calling you until then. Make sure the new place knows you have another offer, but really would rather work for them, but can’t hold off the other offer forever.
TBK
Can you nicely but firmly give them the date by which you’ll give them your answer? You have the month of October, so I might say “my understanding is that you need my answer by the end of October, and I understand how important it is for you to have this information on time, so I can promise you that you will hear from me on October 31. In the meantime, there are some things I’m thinking through and I will definitely be in touch if I need any additional information.”
As for accepting and then withdrawing, eeeeugh…I wouldn’t go there. Big firms can have a lot of pull and a lot of contacts in different places. Worst case, you go to Big Firm for a year, save up a bunch of money and make some good contacts, then jump to a firm that fits you better. Sure most people take 2-4 years before jumping, but some leave after a year. No one will hold that against you.
I am a banana.
Accept for now. You’ll find a new job with a different firm after you pass the bar.
Stephanie
Yep, take the job. You can always rescind or quit soon after you start. Starting out at a big firm is the way to go, almost regardless of what kind of job you want to end up in. I say this as a 16 year in house lawyer whose friends have all moved on from their firms.
Killer Kitten Heels
I know you don’t love the mega-firm (almost no one loves them, ever), but I really think it would be worth it, career-wise, to put in a year or two there before going to a small firm. I started out in a mega-firm, was there for two years, then made the jump to a small firm, and while I love my small firm, new associates do not get anywhere near the amount of training to be had at a mega-firm. Mostly, the new associates get thrown into the deep end of the pool without their swimmies, and it is terrifying for them. There are also massive gaps in their practical experience, even a few years out, because there’s no formal structure by which they’re taught anything.
Example: I am currently working with a 3rd year who doesn’t know how to practice in state court, because she’s only been staffed on federal cases since she started. Given her year, she’s expected by the higher-ups to know how to do everything in state court, but since they haven’t taught her how, she doesn’t. The midlevel associates (self included) tend to help the more junior people in these types of situations, but we happen to be a good group of people – all you need is a couple of midlevels who don’t care/can’t be bothered/are too busy with their own cases to help you out, and you’re on a fast road to malpractice/firing.
MJ
I cosign this advice. You can always go big to small, but it is much harder to go small to big. I am sure you feel in your gut that megafirm is not for you, but there’s something to be said for getting megafirm on your resume. There are a lot of resources at megafirm–training, research tools, sponsored conferences/bar dues, etc. You will have more colleagues at megafirm, nearly all of whom will scatter like the wind over the next few years, which provides you with a great network. It’s fine to know you would be happier at small firm, and make that your destination, but just know that it’s much harder to have the same opportunity later (even if you think you don’t want it). Having megafirm on your resume will get you interviews and open doors later that small firm never will, no matter how much experience or opportunity small firms is giving you. Say yes. It’s a free option at this point, but it disappears. Also, the longer you take to say yes, the more you’re demonstrating you’re not committed to them, which may have repercussions later.
Stephanie
This is completely spot on. I did not particularly like my big firm while I was there but more and more I realize how valuable the experience was, even in the bad times. So much of it was the intangible stuff, like learning how to present yourself and your work to a million year old partner in a stuffy corner office, and working with people with incredibly high standards. I think the vast hierarchy and politics of the place was helpful too– as opposed to the small firm I was at where it was the two head partners and everyone else was a minion. Plus it really does look that good on a resume.
Anon
As a first year associate at a small firm, I firmly co-sign this advice. With the addition that I have a least one mid-level who has actively worked to hurt my career because I didn’t know tons of things that I had no way of knowing when I was staffed with her. The result being that she complained constantly to everyone who would listen about how stupid and incompetent I was, and there was nothing I could do because I had messed up while working with her, and the only way I could defend myself was getting into all of the petty details.
Killer Kitten Heels
A bad midlevel makes life miserable, no matter where you are – the difference, at a megafirm, is that you can get away from a bad one if you need to since there’s lots of them. Also, newbies are not expected to know anything at a megafirm, so midlevels at megafirm who b*tch about a new person not knowing how to do things make themselves, instead of the junior person, look bad (because *duh* why would you expect that level of work from a newbie in the first place?).
anon-oh-no
for what its worth, i love working in biglaw. And i’ve worked in smalllaw and for the government. im now a biglaw partner. that said, i loved those othr jobs too and i guess for me i just really like being a lawyer. i came to biglaw after having done those other things. i didnt think i would like it, but that was 8 years ago and im still here. so, you might like it.
Em
Depends on the small firm. Some boutique firms give better training than Biglaw – it really depends. Talk to the partners and to the associates; figure out what kind of support systems they have; and make your decision on that, not on what the “expected” course of action is.
Early Thanksgiving threadjack
I know this is really early to be thinking about this, but my husband and I are hosting Thanksgiving this year and it’s smaller than usual (7 people, rather than 11-12) and we’ve been thinking about placing our turkey order. We’ve been debating whether it makes sense to stick with tradition and purchase a whole turkey, or change it up and maybe make two separate turkey breasts with different preparations. None of our guests “must” eat dark meat. What would you do?
Cat
My parents just do a turkey breast (it’s typically 5 of us) and enjoy the relative ease; they’ve grilled it in the past which was really good. If you keep it in the oven, just using breast meat helps with oven space since you’re not trying to fit a tall whole turkey + side dishes. The only disadvantage (for some people, not my family – we are Team Stuffing in Separate Dish) is that you can’t stuff the bird.
Senior Attorney
I would just get a smaller whole turkey. The breast is the driest, least flavorful part of the bird, plus I am all about the turkey skin, of which there is of course more on a whole bird.
AttiredAttorney
The breast is only the driest when it’s cooked with a whole turkey that includes dark meat (which must be cooked to higher temperature and longer to be “done” which them dries out the exposed breast). If you want to mix it up, then why not go with the two breasts?
MH
Oh, turkey skin. So delicious.
Anonymous
I say I’d go for the breasts alone, but somehow I always end up making a full turkey for my immediate family of 4. My husband is a stuffing-in-the-bird guy, and I like having the carcass to make soup. Plus, it’s the only time all year that I use my fancy roasting pan.
Equity's Darling
My mom has resorted to cornish hens when she has smaller groups.
Nonny
Yes, I’ve done this for a smaller group (2 to 5 people).
But 7 people? That’s full turkey territory. Just don’t get a humongous one.
Bonnie
For 7 people, I’d just get a smaller bird.
LizNYC
My mom has moved to just doing turkey breasts, since none of us eat dark meat. She makes a paste with butter, garlic and herbs (lots of recipes for this mixture online), rubs it under the skin (between the skin and the meat), rubs olive oil on top of the skin, then pops it in the oven per package instructions. The meat is tender and flavorful.
Plus, there’s usually room for cooking something else in the oven, since there’s no longer a 25-lb. bird taking up the whole thing!
Susedna
With only 7 guests, I’d order one of the smaller smoked turkeys from Greenberg! I ordered from them last year and *loved* it. I love smoked meat in general, and just loved the spices and flavors on the Greenberg turkey. They’re in TX but ship everywhere in the U.S.
http://www.gobblegobble.com/
Jenna Rink
With only 7 guests, I’d order one of the smaller smoked turkeys from Greenberg! I ordered from them last year and *loved* it. I love smoked meat in general, and just loved the spices and flavors on the Greenberg turkey. They’re in TX but ship everywhere in the U.S.
http://www.gobblegobble.com/
victoria
We had a smaller gathering last year and got a capon from a local farm. We had the look of a whole bird, but it was the right size. (That said, turkey is probably my least favorite protein so I for one felt like I was trading up — if you’re someone who really enjoys turkey in particular, that might not fly.)
travel novice
Do people still confirm hotel reservations over the phone? The last time I tried to do this for a chain hotel my call got transferred a million times and they thought I wanted to cancel. I booked online like a month before and had the confirmation email, is that enough these days? We didn’t travel tons growing up, but I thought this was something we always did a day or two before showing up.
Anon in NYC
I never confirm hotel reservations, but if it makes you feel better to confirm just do it and have peace of mind.
Anon
I only call to confirm the day of if I’m going to get in very late, to make sure they don’t assume I’m a no-show and give my room away.
Veronique
+1. To be honest, I’ve never even heard of people calling to confirm. I’ve never had a problem with a hotel finding my reservation (and I travel all the time) after telling them my name.
EB0220
I often call hotels because I need to request a crib (something that seems difficult when you make a reservation online). I always call the hotel directly, get the front desk person, and have never had a problem confirming my res/making my request. This is mostly at Hilton properties.
Hel-lo
Make sure you’re calling their local number, not the national 800 number.
Two Cents
Tips on faciliating a good discussion at a book club? I started a book club with a few close girlfriends and we are having our first meeting coming up where we will be discussing Lean In. I am going to put together a list of questions, but was wondering if there is anything else folks would recommend doing. Do we need ground rules or something? I don’t want to be overly Type A either but was wondering if I need to do more than just come up with a list of questions.
Also, I want our club to be social but also one where the book is discussed (I’ve been in book clubs where half the people don’t read it, which is frustrating), so advice on getting a right balance between the two would be appreciated.
Monday
I’m all about book clubs! I’ve been in a bunch of them over the years, and they really vary based on everyone’s style, the group dynamic, and other factors, so lots of things may vary. I don’t think you need any ground rules, but here are some thoughts:
–For discussion, look online in advance for reviews, discussion and interviews with the author. Lean In will obviously be a gold mine for this, but almost every book has something. Often, something will come up that may surprise you and provide lots of food for thought–for example I found out that one author was being sued by the real person that one of her characters was based on (The Help) or that another had had a secret affair that totally affected all events in her memoir but of course she never disclosed (Blood, Bones and Butter).
–Get a read on how structured people are willing to have it. My current main book club’s organizer was pretty direct in asking if people were annoyed or happy with her coming to the meetings with questions (happy, but I think people would be honest if they wanted her to kick back more).
–People can come without having finished the book, but they have to understand that no one is going to avoid discussing the ending in order to save their suspense.
–In every book club I’ve been in, it shakes out to be about half book discussion and half socializing. I’m fine with that because my main reason for being there is to make friends. I’ve never seen anyone who seemed outright opposed to reading or got in the way of book discussion in any way.
Susedna
Monday – these are great guidelines. I’m filing them away for use if I ever start one.
(Also, re: _Blood, Bones & Butter_, I found that affair thing pretty interesting in how it would make one interpret some of the parts of her book if you knew about the affair.)
book clubber
I usually google the book to see if there are discussion questions posted by the author or publisher. If there are, I print those and choose a couple to jump start discussion. If not, I start by just asking who liked the book? Did you relate to X character? simple questions like that get you going and usually the discussion sustains itself from there.
SA
http://cdn-static.leanin.org/wp-content/themes/leanin/ui/resources/Lean_In_Discussion_Guide_All_Audiences.pdf
Lean in Discussion guide
Anonymous
I have a close friend that’s moving out of town, a few hours away, and I want to get her a nice going away present- any ideas?
In the Pink
unpacking kit filled with cotton gardening gloves, box opener, label maker, great shelf liners for dishes/glasses (I use the plastic kind with built in ridges for air circulation), maps of the new city, tour book for the new city, maybe tickets somewhere?
CKB
This is a good idea. I’d also add plastic cups, utensils & paper plates as well as a cheap shower curtain. I always seem to loose my shower curtain when I move. And maybe a gift card to somwhere she can get dinner that first night. Someplace that delivers too, so she has the option if going out to eat & getting away from the mess or ordering in so she can keep working.
wolverine
TJ – I need recommendations for movers. Moving from NYC to Chicago and I am convinced I’ll inadvertently hire one of those movers who hold your stuff hostage to get you to pay more. We have a limited budget so I am not going for one of those expensive corporate moving services. Any recommendations for a mid-budget, reliable moving company?
Miss Behaved
I had one of those kinds when I moved from Boston to Providence. And it was just me and my pregnant sister. I finally ran out to a bank just so I could get them to leave. It was an awful experience.
Avodah
Woah. Never heard of that. Hillstrom is based out of Chicago, and I have had great luck with them. I have heard good things about Golans. Please do NOT EVER use Aaron Bros.
Anon in NYC
Check out Hercules Movers. It’s been a while since I’ve used them but I had great success with them for a couple of moves a few years ago and we’ve recommended them to friends who have also raved about them.
Blair Waldorf
We used New City Moving and they were excellent. The same day we moved, Golans was moving out an apartment in our building. They took forever and cut into our moving time by almost 2 hours. The movers from New City took half the estimated time and completed the move within the time window, even after having to wait for 2 hours. They put our bed together and even offered to send people to help put furniture together (obviously for an extra cost, but still).
I will always use them from now on!
wolverine
Thank you all. These are great recommendations. For people who have done long distance moves, do you suggest finding a moving company in your current city or your destination city?
ADL
I just did a long distance move (half way across the company) and used a company from my original city not the destination city. It worked well but honestly, I think you can do anything, as really my sales rep/move coordinator is only a phone call away at all times.
wolverine
Thanks!
Stay at Home Dad
I’m looking for some advice on stay at home dads. DH has made some comments about how he’d love to be one when the time comes (a few years away) and I’m a little hesitant about having one of us stay home at all. Any personal experiences you’ve had or seen or advice would be much appreciated.
For background, I grew up only seeing stay at home moms (literally I can name 2 working mothers in my entire town where I grew up) and working fathers. I always thought it was what I would do, until I met DH, who wasn’t sure what he wanted to do for work (thought maybe something in education, which wouldn’t make a lot of $). I decided I wanted to be with him more than I wanted to be a stay at home mom, went to law school, have a high paying job that I enjoy, but definitely chose with income being a top priority- I’m not saving the world. Some people might think its shallow, but it was important to me that I be able to belong to the same country club that I grew up at, live in the expensive town where I grew up near family, and be able to send my future kids to the schools of their choice without regard to cost. DH actually works in technology now, at a job he enjoys, making a great salary at a company that tops the lists of places people want to work.
I think my hesitations about him staying home come from a few places:
1. Even though we technically could live nicely off of just my salary, I think I’d feel an overwhelming pressure knowing I was the only financial provider for the family.
2. There are things that I saw most stay at home moms take over that I don’t think DH would able to take over, nor would I probably want him to (ex: I don’t think my dad bought a single item of clothing after he got married, my mom would renovate/decorate our homes on her own). I wouldn’t want DH shopping for me, his standards for how organized a house should be is way lower than how I would have it or how a housekeeper would have it, etc. I’m not sure it would actually save me much work or time to have him home doing the typical at home spouse role.
3. Childcare isn’t much of a concern for us- both sets of parents live nearby and have expressed an absolute desire to help us with the kids. My parents in particular have done it with nieces/nephews who are now in school and I think the system would work for us and I know they know what they’re getting into. It’s not like having a parent stay home would actually save us the expense of daycare or a live-in nanny.
4. I’m a little embarrassed to admit that I’m not sure how the typical gender role reversal would affect things. Its really attractive how he’s able to handle high stakes things at work and seeing how other people in his industry admire and respect him. I’m not sure how it would impact things if instead of coming home to tell me about his interesting day solving all these complicated issues, he’s home telling me about dealing with spit-up and diapers.
Help?
Anon in NYC
It seems pretty clear to me that you don’t want your husband to be a stay-at-home parent and you lay out some pretty substantive reasons for not wanting him to stay at home: 1) standard of living, 2) how necessary it really is given other childcare options, and 3) your level of comfort with non-traditional gender roles. In my opinion, your reasons are your reasons and there’s nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. My only recommendation is to talk to your husband and really hash this out. You say you still have some time before kids, so this is the perfect time to figure this out.
And this could just all be one of those things your husband is saying is nice in theory. For a while my husband was saying that he wanted someone to stay home with any kids until they went to school… and then he realized that we would have to completely upend our lives to be able to afford that so that idea went out the window because he didn’t want to do that.
ss
You articulate what’s important to you quite clearly but don’t speak much on what your husband’s motivations and priorities are, or what your shared aspirations are as a family unit. Figuring these out are probably more relevant than seeking input from a bunch of internet strangers.
On 3. I’d advise against relying on your parents’ ability to play the same role ‘a few years from now’ as they did with your nieces and nephews ‘a few years ago’. Folks do slow as they get older and it’s one thing for a middle-aged grand-parent to provide care and another for an elderly one.
Anonymous
Honestly? It sounds like its not for you, which is really too bad. If you think its what is best for your family I think you should go to a therapist and see if you can get over your gender hangups. Number 1 is a somewhat legitimate concern, but if someone has to stay home, someone has to feel that pressure. 2-4 all seem to stem with your issues with gender.
Maybe what is best for your family is one or both of you switching to a 4 day work week schedule when the kids are younger
Bewitched
I’d also add that #1 might be a legitimate concern if DH’s plans to stay home are long term. It may not be huge pressure if he only stays home for a year or two. It doesn’t have to be a life-long commitment! (that said, he’d probably face same concerns on-ramping back to work that women do). As a parent of college age children, I do often wish that I hadn’t assumed that everything I did when they were younger was a major, permanent decision. I agonized over a lot of things when in reality I could have said, this is what we’ll do for the next year, and then re-evaluate.
anonfish
My husband stays home with our infant son. He had been un or underemployed (i.e. working part time retail) for several years when we decided to have a baby. For us, it is more financially feasible for him to stay home than to pay for childcare. We do not have any family options nearby. So please understand that this is the background that I bring when I give you my thoughts on your questions.
1. This is a very real pressure and certainly something you should discuss with your husband.
2. This isn’t a real problem. Your relationship doesn’t have to be dictated by what your parents did 25-30+ years ago. They didn’t have online shopping then. You can still buy your own clothes. You can decorate however you like, together. (How much time do you spend decorating?) As for housekeeping.. this can be a sticking point. With an infant, it is extremely difficult to keep up with cleaning and you can tread on some very thin ice if you try to dictate expectations in this department. You make a lot of money? Great, hire a housekeeper. Otherwise, you’ll have to learn how to deal with things being messier than you would like, which is actually good practice for parenting. (You sound very rigid and you will need to try to learn how to go with the flow and accept that things will be less perfect than you envision when you have a baby.. I’m not trying to be snarky- this is a struggle that I have.)
3. Well aren’t you lucky? But seriously, discuss with your parents as you should be sure that your expectations are in line with what they are willing and able to commit since they will be older when you have kids. Do they plan to stay in the area? What obligations do they have with your nieces and nephews?
4. Just wait until you see how attractive it is to watch your husband parent your child. A new dimension. Yes, he will tell you about spit-up and diapers but guess what? You’ll probably want to know. And he will probably also crave adult discussion too, so I bet you can find other things to talk about. Current events, your day, etc. My husband keeps cable news on all day and I rely on him to tell me all about interesting political events that I don’t always have time to read about. He texts me links to articles to read on my commute- and we talk about them later. It’s kind of fun.
Lyssa
I’m similarly situated and would agree with all of anonfish’s advice. A lot of it (as with parenting in general) is that you need to let go. And it can be hard sometimes – before the baby, my husband worked a lot of non-typical times, and I would routinely take care of household stuff and take big, leisurely trips to the big box store for groceries. I had it down to a science and enjoyed it. Husband hates the big box store, and insists that the money saved is less significant than I had thought (I think that he’s actually right about that now). So, I’ve had to let go of this, and, well, we run out of things a bit more because my grocery management system is not running things – but when you get right down to it, that’s OK!
Don’t underestimate the time, either. Yeah, your husband won’t shop “for you,” but he could shop for everyone else (babies need a lot of shopping!). When I’ve worked a long day, the last, last thing that I want to do is stop and pick something up. There’s also doctor’s appointments, home and car maintenance, bills, chores that can be worked in while baby is napping, etc. Again, you’ve got to adjust your expectations that they will get done enough, even if they aren’t the way you would have done them. My days are jam packed, even without doing much around the house but care for the baby when I get home – if I had to take care of all of the other chores and errands I was doing before the baby, too, I would be a mess. Really, really miserable.
Lyssa
Oh, and I should add that having only one person to a couple really devoted to their career makes it a lot easier for the other to advance – say you had a better opportunity that involved moving – it’s very hard to take it if it means your partner will have to find a new job, too. Or you need to put in some extra/unusual hours time to advance – if your partner is also working full time, he might not be able to take over for you in the same way. If you’re a type A go getter, it’s really something to think about.
In most relationships with kids, someone has to wind up taking a step back from their career. Th stuff just has to get done, and there’s little time to do it. It’s fine if the woman steps back if she and they choose that, but it looks to me like a lot of families just fall into letting the wife do it by default. If you’re career driven, don’t let that happen – and having him stay home (or work part time, which might be a good compromise) will keep that from happening. Good luck to you.
AnnonFoo
This is so true about one person able to devote to their careers. I am not yet married but in serious dating mode and this is one of my main concerns. I am a type-A go getter who will be incredibly resentful if I had to let go of a career opportunity because my partner does not want to relocate or if I had relocate to follow a partner’s career at my own expense. Most men in my section of the industry relocate easily and have stay at home wives, I am afraid I will I loose out on such opportunities if my partner is also very career focused. Unfortunately while dating I hardly come across men who would be willing to take a step back when time comes, everyone I meet is just so focused on their goals.
Anne Shirley
Since this is still years in the future, I’d just talk to him about it. When he says “yeah I could be a stay at home dad” tell him “the idea of that completely freaks me out, and I’m not sure I even fully understand why. Can we talk more about this?”
You don’t need to resolve this, just open the conversation and see how it goes.
Anon
My husband stays home with our three children. I am a lawyer and he is an engineer who works on a part-time/contract basis mostly from home in the evenings and sometimes on the weekends. Though he took off an entire year when our first was born and I was just starting out as a lawyer. We knew we wanted this set-up before we even got married. It has worked out very well for us. We have one school aged child, one in half day pre-school and a toddler.
1. There is a certain amount of pressure being the primary breadwinner, but even if I was not my career is still important to me and it is unlikely that I would just quit without something else lined up. Having a high-powered career comes with a lot of pressure regardless of who else is depending on that paycheck, at least for me.
2. Your husband doesn’t have to go shopping for you or decorate the house. My husband is responsible for cleaning, and we have had to discuss what our standards are in this area, but it has worked itself out. Also, if you can afford it, hire a housekeeper. That will solve a lot of this issue.
3. I much prefer my husband providing child care for our children than our parents. Maybe your parents are different/younger/more active, but our parents are elderly and though they are doing well for thier age, they cannot provide the kind of activities on a daily basis that my husband can for the kids. They are great to provide an evening of babystitting so we can go on a date, but my husband takes the kids swimming, hiking, bike riding, plays soccer etc. at the park, chases them around the indoor playground, etc. that is just too hard for our parents to do daily.
4. My husband is just as attractive and manly as the day I met him. At least for me, it is so amazing to watch him with our children. He also does all of the home and car repair and upkeep, which I find very attractive as well. Same with coming home to dinner prepared by him. Some of this may have to involve you changing your ideas on what is manly or attractive, which may be hard for you.
Ultimately this is a decision that you both have to make together. If you are not comfortable with it, then you aren’t. But it can work and work out really well. I love that my daughters have grown up with a daddy who knows how to do their hair and teach them how to fix a sink. I love that they see their mother going off to work every day. I love that my son sees that men can cook and clean and play baseball and change the oil on the car. I know these things can be taught in a traditional environment also, but I love the gender attitudes our kids are developing as a result of our arrangment.
I'm Just Me
+1 to Anon.
My dh is in his 18th year of SAHD. It was a decision we made together at the beginning with the idea that we would be flexible and make things work no matter how they turned out or changed over the years.
Yes, there is the financial pressure, but it’s minimized by the fact that he is great money manager and really good with stuff like that.
As for shopping, I do my own, and most of the stuff for the kids, when the kids were small I did most of their shopping online. He does his own, and is now more comfortable with shopping for and with each child. If there was something that he needed to buy for the kids, I gave him more specific instructions if it was something he was not comfortable with.
We have different standards of organization and cleaning, but we’ve talked about them and reached compromises over the years, I’ve lowered mine, and he’s raised his.
I totally agree with Anon, the things he does during the day just wow me, and he is an extremely attractive man, even with 29 years of marriage behind us, I get flutters when I see him.
Stephanie
I think it can work but it’s not for everyone, and it’s not really the same in every town/suburb/area. There are almost none in my affluent beach suburb of LA. It is SAHM central over there, to the point where it’s super weird to be a working mom, let alone a SAHD. My husband works but is more present than most dads, and we have a more equal split than most couples with a SAHM. He even feels weird sometimes at school pickup with all the PTA ladies, or in the past at the park with the young moms and the nannies. The elementary school teachers are all stuck in 1950 and get weird when a dad does volunteer duty. I’m sure it’s not like this in a more hip neighborhood– we’re just a throwback I guess. I would go the dual income route if at all possible– it seems to solve all your issues, and you can always shift course later.
hoola hoopa
This is very much worth considering. Where we live, stay at home dads are quite common. My husband would want to be at home regardless, but it’s a lot harder when there’s not a cultural allowance for it.
Maddie Ross
Just because you make more money does not mean he has to stay home. I make significantly more than my husband and we could not survive (at least in anything resembling anything close to the fashion to which we have become accustomed) on his salary alone. That said, he still makes more than daycare costs, so we both work. Honestly, even if he broke even with daycare + the expenses of work (commuting, etc.), I think he would still work. And that’s partly because that’s what I prefer, and you know what, that’s ok.
Susedna
This.
Another thing for the OP and her husband to consider: he may not want to stay-at-home forever. A lot of SAHMs and SAHDs opt to go back to work when the kid(s) are school-age. Has he given a serious thought about what he’ll do to keep himself connected to whatever industry he’s in (if he wants to return), or about plans to network into an industry he’d like to switch into if he’s sick of his current line of work?
Because of the income, career happiness, and lifestyle impacts — this would be an important topic to talk about.
Finally, not to be all grim about it, but it is divorce is a fact of life. And support payments are often part of divorce. If in the long-run, the two of you want to divorce, are you psychologically OK with the idea that you might be paying him support if he quits his job to be a SAHD? I have listened to men gripe about this with their former wives who were SAHMs, and as much as I think it’s unseemly to gripe about this sort of thing — it’s the reality of what they’re dealing with. And it drove how bitter they were, and how difficult their divorce proceedings were because of this resentment.
Senior Attorney
This is apparently an unpopular view, but for me it would be a dealbreaker if my husband didn’t want to have a paid job. Granted, I’m a generation older than you, but I think “All the adults in this household will have paid employment” is a defensible position for anyone to have.
I do, however, join in urging caution in assuming the grandparents will be happy to provide unpaid, full-time child care. Just because they did it when they were younger doesn’t mean they’ll want to do it now or later.
Susedna
I’ve long given up trying to convince people not to have the dealbreakers that they have. They’re preferences, and I believe people should absolutely seek out their preferences (whatever they might be) especially if they’re going to be living with the person, possibly for life.
Even when someone tells me s/he has what I’d consider an objectionable dealbreaker, I don’t think we should thought-police people and reprogram them to have politically correct preferences when it comes to their choice of significant other.
hoola hoopa
My husband stays home with our two children. I’m a little dumbfounded by your question, though, because it honestly sounds to me like you and your husband are looking for something for him to do other than work. I hope that’s not the case. Staying at home with children is a hard job. If you don’t think he’s up for it, then you need to have a frank conversation with him about that before going that route when you have a child.
I’ll try to address the gender role concerns:
1. It is pressure… but it’s okay, I can handle it. We make extra sure that we have the financial safety net in place since we don’t have the back up of a second income. It’s very possible that he will never fully return to the workforce, and I’m 100% okay with that. If you will resent him for not bringing in outside income, then it’s not for you and you should make that clear now.
2. My husband cooks and does most of the cleaning. I clothing shop for myself and the kids. He shops for himself. I never would do his shopping, even if I did stay at home. His standards for cleaning are equal to or higher than mine, so it’s never been an issue. He’s also a very good cook. We never discussed the breakdown of household chores, but equitable distribution of responsibilities comes easily to our relationship. If it’s an issue in your relationship now, then absolutely discuss in advance.
3. Then he only needs to stay at home if *he* wants that level of a relationship with his children.
4. My husband’s a s*xy, s*xy man, and we have plenty to talk about. I love that he’s such a hands on father. I love what he contributes to the family. If you don’t think you can be attracted to a man who spends his day dealing with spit up and diapers, then it’s not for you and you should make that clear now. I will say that, when it’s your kid, spit up and diaper reports are much more interesting. I love hearing about every little thing that happens at home.
Another thing to consider is that you can’t expect to set the rules when you aren’t the one home. He’ll steer the course more than any of the fathers you probably encountered ever did. Teamwork in parenting is best, but the person in the field has to make their own calls. Many women can’t handle that.
SAHD advice
To stay at home dad questioning OP –
Others have given a variety of ideas and advice. Back when my husband and I were expecting 20 years ago, SAHDs were very rare. So rare that I’d never met one. And as a result, we didn’t ask these questions (you’re way ahead that you are asking) and ran into problems. I think your concerns are real and you’re not being shallow IMO.
1. I did feel an overwhelming stress from being the only provider and it was exacerbated by the fact that my spouse did not do things to make my life easier as a SAHM would – like picking up dry cleaning, grocery shopping, middle of the night feedings etc. YMMV but if your spouse is not totally caring and giving, he may expect you to pull a “second shift” at the end of your work day doing things a SAHSpouse would do. And then my husband didn’t want to return to work when our three kids were in school full time –he said he never intended to return. He was fully into staying home and wasn’t swayed by my fear of being the sole provider. As you might expect, this caused huge problems.
2. Following up on the above, I think most women with a SAHD situation have to let go of some of their standards. For you, you have the opportunity to explore and discuss that before you decide, unlike my situation where we didn’t discuss it ahead of time.
3. Others have addressed this but a SAHSpouse does reduce the strain on daycare pickup/dropoff that is a problem for a lot of families. Grandparents can fill this role, possibly.
4. Unlike the poster above who is still in the “butterflies” stage after 29 years, things are not so rosy at my house. Hubby does not handle things masterfully at home or at work and it is a turnoff. We are not equal partners. As Senior Attorney said, adults work. Those that try to get out of work are not pulling their weight.
In the past 20 years, I have met other women who were the primary breadwinners and it has worked for some (senior management at Fortune 100 company etc.) whose husbands stayed home even after the kids were in high school and college. On the other hand, I’ve seen two high-level women who ended up paying support to their ex-husbands, and the ex-husbands having sole custody and being at-home dads after the divorce. These women got to see the kids on the weekends, in their two bedroom apartments while the ex got the family home.
Some things to think about: Set a return to work date; have husband keep current in his field or go back to school for a new career; have husband work part-time; have husband start a business or become self-employed or work from home; sign a post-nup (even if it is thrown out in court, it would be a legal record of the frame of mind of both of you at the time the kids were conceived/born).
anon
I’m really sorry things turned out this way for you :( I hope they get better one way or another.
KJP
PSA – I just received the Everlane women’s oxford someone mentioned last week, it is soft and thick and I plan on wearing it for casual Fridays or weekends. It could probably be worn under a suit but that’s not my preference. I got the white and it is not see through at all. I sized down from what the Everlane size chart told me to get because I prefer my clothes fitted rather than loose. https://www.everlane.com/n/86pa5n
lucy stone
Has anyone successfully challenged an increased Income-Based Repayment payment change after marriage? It didn’t make financial sense for my husband and I to file separate tax returns (mortgage interest and self-employment are both a factor) but my payments are now going up $300/month. I don’t think they factored his loans into the calculation.
Dulcinea
I don’t know the answer to this; I do know at least one currently married couple who waited years to get married in part because of how it would have affected their loan payments/eligibility for certain loan forgiveness programs. These types of programs have changed a lot in recent years so the factors they were considering might not apply to you. But, ifyou are in the Boston area I can recommend a good student loan lawyer.
lucy stone
I am not in the Boston area. We waited a while to get married as well but it’s time to have kids and we didn’t want to have them outside of marriage. I am not looking for a huge reduction here, but would like to get $50 or so knocked off so we don’t feel like we’re flat broke.
Blonde Lawyer
Update for the feds about federal student loans. My federal student loan is due on the 21st which I know is a long ways away “shutdown” wise. Nonetheless, I contacted my servicer (Ed Financial) and told them I was surprised they weren’t offering an interest free/penalty free deferment for fed families during the shutdown. I asked what their plan was if someone asked for a deferment for this reason.
They replied that as a servicer they don’t make the rules. The government decides the policies and procedures for authorizing deferments and forebearances. Currently, my options would be the same as any other private citizen, unless the government instructs them they can do something else like they have for those living in declared natural disaster locations. They suggested I contact my delegates about getting them the authority to offer shutdown deferments.
None of the regular options are appealing to me. They suggested the “unemployment deferment” but we wouldn’t qualify for that as my husband is still working as an essential employee so he couldn’t meet their other criteria like looking for work and working less than 32 hours per week. A regular forebearance would cause interest to still accrue AND capitalize increasing my payments forever after. Even making a large principal only payment wouldn’t bring them back down I don’t believe. I don’t want to do IBR because I probably wouldn’t qualify and, when he is getting paid, we can make our payments just fine. It is further ridiculous since government employees can lose their jobs for not paying their federal student loans.
I followed their advice and called my delegates at their Washington offices. I reached a real person at each one who actually sounded very interested in the issue. They brief the congressperson or executive staff at the end of each day and think this sounds like an issue that would get attention. One person told me I was the first constituent to call with this issue but probably because most federal student loans are due the last week or two of the month so people probably haven’t looked into this yet.
If you are in the same boat, you may want to call your delegates too and try to get a dispensation. I’d even authorize a payroll deduction for my retro loan payment out of my husband’s retro paycheck.
Wild Kitten – my husband got his travel reimbursement today thankfully. Did you get yours?
Blonde Lawyer
I should add that I could make a few months loan payments out of our limited savings but I’m not comfortable using my savings for that until I know I can actually pay all of our other expenses on my check alone for a month. Murphy’s law of course applies and we have our car registrations and inspections this month and I have a $1000 dental procedure I really shouldn’t postpone any longer (that will someday get reimbursed from his FSA), and our mortgage company screwed up our escrow calculation so we just got a decent sized tax bill. I rely on my savings to pay those things which is why I’m not comfortable using the savings to pay the student loans unless I absolutely have to.
Avery
This is absolutely ridiculous. So sorry to you and all r e t t e s in the same position.
Susedna
Yup. Late to today’s posts (stupid stupid bureaucratic reports — I finished that batch on late Friday night only to have 2 more land on my desk. Grrrrrrr) but…
It pains me to see government employees, their families, and others directly or indirectly affected go through these complications. It’s just more collateral damage.
Wildkitten
I didn’t get mine yet, but my credit union is offering 0% interest loans for folks who are not being paid. I know the military credit unions are doing the same, and maybe agencies. That might give you the (free!) flexibility to pay bills until this all gets sorted out. I’m surprised the student loan folks didn’t have a way to fit our situation into their form.
Anonymous
this is all good info to know, I’m deferred as well. I am a little confused about the “same as private citizen comment though. Shouldn’t we be the same? Do they usually give a special break for this kind of thing? I kind of just assumed I was sh*t out of luck which may be why other people are not calling too.
crymeariver
Why would there be any special provision? There isn’t for anyone else when they lose their jobs? I feel like I’m missing a piece of the puzzle in all these discussions. There’s been a known shut down risk for a year. How is a week’s lost pay this level of crisis for people- I can see for low wage employees, but for people making a decent salary? Do federal employees not follow the “have 8 months expenses in savings just in case rule?”. Should the rest of us subsidize your loan payments? I mean, really, you have a mortgage. Lots of us out here who can’t afford that because we aren’t willing to have all of our savings in a non-liquid asset just in case.
Anonymous
I agree with this (albeit in a nicer manner than expressed). But, I’m not sure why the options should be different for federal employees than it is for other employees that lose their jobs for reasons beyond their control. Forbearance is an option that you can take if you need it.
TBK
1) It’s a slap in the face that the government who created the shut-down is the same government that holds the loan. If you owed your employer money but the employer wasn’t giving you your paycheck, yet demanded you repay your own debt, that would seem hypocritical. Sure, Congress =/= the agencies =/= Sallie Mae or whoever, but it’s still all the Feds.
2) She can’t go look for other work or get temp work, or even get unemployment (I guess she could but it’s a hassle to apply, get it, then repay it if she gets paid). So it’s not like anyone else losing their jobs. It’s like anyone else getting furloughed, which is a different animal.
3) She has savings. Eight months’ savings is great, but plenty of people have trouble reaching that amount. Even as a government lawyer, if she’s not too many years out of school, the salary is not that great. It ramps up fast, but the first few years can be rough. If she’s a GS-11 or so, she doesn’t have a great salary for the DC metro area.
4) People have all kinds of expenses you choose not to have. A mortgage isn’t a crazy expense. Rent around here has skyrocketed and so buying has been the more cost-effective option these last few years (especially with mortgage rates being so crazy low).
crymeariver
1.) it’s a slap in the face that federal employees who work for us feel entitled to more protections than “private citizens”
2.) Okay. It’s a hassle. And? Life sucks when you’re a grownup.
3.) if none of the loan forbearance options are appealing, then use your savings. If you don’t have enough, then deal with the terms of the loan. Like everyone else.
4.). Sure. Having a mortgage isn’t crazy. Expecting special treatment is. People who owe the IRS money are sometimes told- you have a house? Awesome. Take out a second mortgage because you owe us money.
This just seems so entitled.
Anonymous
Is there a situation where private citizens are forced to work without pay? I don’t know if its entitled, I just don’t there is a comparable private sector version of this scenerio.
Blonde Lawyer
Hey Cry me a River – I’d love to know your real screen name and if I’m chatting with a regular here or not. Nonetheless, I’m guessing we have very different political views and absent this disagreement you would probably consider me entitled due to my political beliefs.
Nonetheless, even though I replied to you below, I would like to point out something in case you missed it. The Government as an employer can require things of its employees that a private corporation could not. Sworn law enforcement officers are required to uphold certain functions of the government whether they get paid or not. In some circumstances, one can be prosecuted if they don’t do their job. So the reason I expect “special” treatment is because my husband isn’t offered the “special” outs that you get as a private employee. If you don’t get paid, you go to your local labor board and they fine your employer and your employer has to pay you double or triple wages. They can be held individually responsible. If you don’t get paid, you also probably don’t go to work and can babysit, dogwalk, paint houses, whatever, and earn a living that day. An essential government employee can’t. As a private employee if your employer tried to make you work without pay anyway, you could quit. An essential government employee (at least in law enforcement) cannot quit during a shutdown. Since they are forced into that “special” situation, there should be “special” dispensation for them when they aren’t paid.
Absent that, you will have your opinions and I will have mine.
Avodah
What are these “special outs” that private employees get? I’m not familiar. Someone tell me.
Anonymous
didnt blonde lawyer just tell you? you cant be forced to work without pay
Avodah
That’s it? That’s all I get for my fancy special private sector job? I’ll take the pension and govt. holidays any day.
TBK
Avodah, Feds don’t get pensions anymore. The older ones were grandfathered in, but the younger ones have basically a 401k. Federal jobs come with more job security and more holidays (typically) plus some other benefits, but they almost universally pay less than private sector jobs. It’s a trade off like anything else. I don’t get the bitterness toward federal employees.
Anonymous
You would take having to work with no pay, and getting way less pay in general, for 10 government holidays?
L
Really?! Wow. Yes, let’s become a country of lowest common denominator. Why should someone else have something I don’t? Let’s take it away from them. Jesus.
Avoadah, with your “fancy special private sector job” you have the ability to get a raise. You have the ability to sue for back pay. You have the ability to FILE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT. Most people who are ‘essential’ can’t because they are working and will be paid, they just don’t know when.
and crymeariver, I really hope you never fall on hard times. But I do hope you develop a sense of compassion, because the only person who’s acting entitled around here is you.
PolyD
What L said – Yes, let’s become a country of lowest common denominator. Why should someone else have something I don’t? Let’s take it away from them. Jesus. – seems to have become such a common way of thinking now, that all I can think is that the American worker has lost all hope of ever having anything better than the paltry vacation/sick leave, wages that haven’t really risen in real dollars since the 1970s or 1980s, and no job security whatsoever. And this hopelessness leads to the cry to take away the decent benefits that other workers might have.
Also, I didn’t have to wait for a letter from Hogwarts to become a federal employee. I just applied at USAJobs.gov and went through the rather tedious application and interviewing process. Everyone is welcome to apply.
(And, like a doofus I accidentally hit Report instead of Reply. Sorry.)
Blonde Lawyer
Just to clear something up, I’m not a government employee, my husband is. Otherwise, everything else is accurate. As to number 2, my husband is essential law enforcement so he is required to be at work even if he doesn’t get paid. Refusing orders to go to work during a national crisis carries penalties greater than losing your job.
Blonde Lawyer
Hi Cry me a River and Anonymous. The reason I thought there would be special dispensation is because government employees deemed essential and working do not fall under the other deferment options. See, in the private sector, there is no such thing as working without pay. The other reasons it seems like there would be a special dispensation is that those working without pay are guaranteed back pay.
Cry me a river, have you followed our other posts on here about savings and debt and stuff? I absolutely do not have 8 months expenses in savings and despite all the advice, most Americans don’t either. I will happily share more of my personal situation with you.
Where I live, houses are reasonably priced so my mortgage is about the same as my rent. I owned a home prior to law school when I lived in a rural community as a law enforcement officer and renting really wasn’t an option. I bought in 2005, during the housing boom, with one of those minimal downpayment loans. Yup, that wasn’t smart but I was 23, and I didn’t have many other options if I wanted the job. Before that, I lived at home and saved for six months and bought and paid off an economical car and paid my closing costs.
While I was in law school the market crashed and my husband and I had to move out of state to find work. We couldn’t sell that other house so we rent it out.
Financial professionals differ. Some might say I would have been more fiscally conservative to keep renting in my new state. Others say paying yourself is smarter in the long run. Sure, we blew our savings to put a downpayment on this place and pay the closing costs but it is saving us money in the long run.
We saw this financial crisis coming as you so astutely noted and thought it would be more responsible for us to lock in at a low interest rate for 30 years rather than buy a house five years later at the old rates should the financial crisis make rates skyrocket as predicted. Our choices were thought out.
I am very privileged in that I will never go hungry or be homeless. I have family to rely on. But I am not privileged that I didn’t have to finance law school on student loans. I have more after expenses money today than I would have staying in law enforcement with no student loans. I rolled the dice and made out with a job. Not everyone was so lucky. Sometimes to get ahead in this world you have to take chances and that is what I did.
If you want to judge me, go right ahead. Just know that somewhere along the way, you caught a break that got you where you are, just like I caught breaks to get me where I am. If you lost your job before you got those 8 months of savings built up, where would you be? Just some food for thought.
crymeariver
Your choices were well thought out. And they have consequences. Like taking the regular forbearance option that lets interest acrue and capitalize. I’m not suggesting you should be thrown into debtor’s prison or that this doesn’t really really suck, but when the risk you took comes home to roost, I find it entitled to believe special accommodations will be made for you.
Avodah
@crymeariver
I think BlondeLawyer is just trying to explore alternatives and the best way to handle a tough situation. Unfortunately, this seems like a situation with no *great* solutions-just okay ones. I agree with your premise, but call her “entitled” seems a little harsh.
Anon
You can take a forbearance and still make interest payments out of savings so that nothing extra will accrue–it will not affect your qualification for a forbearance.
Blonde Lawyer
After this post I need to get back to work so I won’t be replying until later in the day. I just want to add that I posted this here not for sympathy but to let other people in a similar situation know. My husband and I will be okay. I called my delegates more for the other people in worse situations than me. I’ll be paying it out of my savings. For those that can’t, I don’t think it is right that the government is the one withholding the paycheck and also benefiting with the extra interest it will get when people can’t pay.
Lastly, while the government (usually) offers the benefit of stable employment, good vacation time, hours and holidays – the rest of the talking point “entitlements” aren’t all that they are cracked up to be. You’d probably be surprised to hear there is no maternity leave. Our healthcare premiums are comparable to the private sector. No raises since 2010 regardless of how impressive a job you did. Awards already earned revoked. While a pension is great, they contribute a significant amount towards it (mandatory) and the amount they receive in return isn’t that huge. There is a reason we also have the TSP (like a 401k). Most people couldn’t live off the pension alone. Currently, the benefits outweigh the burdens which is why my husband is still employed there but it is far from the paradise people assume it to be.
Hel-lo
These are all good points. Federal jobs used to be very stable, with good benefits. I’m not sure that’s still the case.
Wildkitten
Oh look – What NOT to say to friends who have been furloughed by the government shutdown: http://www.askamanager.org/2013/10/what-not-to-say-to-friends-who-have-been-furloughed-by-the-government-shut-down.html
Moonstone
I was going to post that link here until I saw this sootstorm and decided to slink away.
In-House Optimist
I just want to say that I’m shamelessly stealing “sootstorm” and intend to use it IRL because it cracked me up. That is all.
BB
How do people feel about having a company-purchased smartphone as your primary phone? Does it concern you at all in terms of privacy?
My main phone is now a company phone. They offer an unlimited data plan, which I need to receive email on my phone (people send a lot of PPTs). Also, there are lots of conference calls which would rack up the minutes if I had my own phone. I have all my normal smartphone apps on there (gmail-separate from company email account, banking apps, internet browser which I pretty much only use for blog reading-nothing inappropriate). I guess my only concern would be if some random IT guy could get my bank/gmail login info since they technically own my phone. Is this even possible (my company doesn’t own the actual phone carrier)?
My general thinking is kind of like with the whole NSA thing: I don’t really do anything illegal/inappropriate on it to raise any suspicions, but I’m definitely careful about what I do with it. As for someone hacking into our IT system and stealing passwords, I work for a massive company. I have an equal chance of that happening to Google or my bank’s own servers. I have thought about getting my own “dumb” phone just to have my own phone number and stuff. Not sure if this is all a bit overly paranoid.
mascot
My husband had a company phone as his sole phone for years. Two issues he had were 1) he had very little control if he ever needed to access his “account” say for a lost voicemail or service issue. He couldn’t reset the PIN, that sort of thing and 2) when he left the company, he lost that number. After years of having it and giving it out as his point of contact, he definitely had to scramble to make sure people knew he had a new number, update personal accounts, etc. It’s not a huge deal, but he definitely missed a few important calls right after leaving. If you don’t have a home line or another number that people can find you on like a spouse/SO, it’s probably worth looking at a cheap personal phone.
Walnut
I’m not sure how much someone in IT could get from a company phone, but I do have a policy of limiting the number of logins I save to my phone. My gmail and facebook passwords are saved, but that’s about it. I don’t use banking apps and I choose to not save passwords on other apps with logins. My biggest paranoia is that should I ever leave my job I don’t know that I would be able to keep my current phone number. It technically belongs to the company now.
BB
Thanks! It’s good to hear that I’m not just being totally wreckless by having my company phone as my primary phone. On the phone number part – I think if I plan ahead, I can actually get my phone number back from my company when I leave…so as long as I don’t get fired suddenly… :)
abogada
Not sure how practical or expensive this is, but my friend who started her own business had 2 numbers for the same phone, one that had always been her personal number and 1 for work. When the phone rang, she could tell which number people were calling so that she could ignore a business call after hours if she wanted to.
Maybe you could have the work phone set up and then just have your number added as a second line, so that you keep your current number and can take that with you when you leave, while the main line would belong to the company.
Hel-lo
Yes, these are all legit concerns.
But are they worth carrying around another phone all the time?
That’s what it comes down to for me.
What to wear?
I’m going to a movie premiere at the London Film Festival. Not lucky enough to be walking a red carpet, just viewing the film. I’ve never been to a film festival and need help figuring out what to wear. Anyone know how dressed up (or down) I should be? I’m very excited by don’t want to look out of place. Thanks!
lizm
I went to a TIFF premiere (of an indie film so I can’t comment on if it’s a larger movie) and wore a smart casual outfit – black jeans, cute top, blazer and heels, but was overdressed compared to a lot of others who were there.
Echo
No tips, but that sounds amazing! Hope you enjoy!
Former Parisian
I went last year and wore a c*cktail dress, and my boyfriend wore black tie. There were some other similarly dressed spectators, but most were dressed like one would go to the theatre: nice dresses, blouses with skirts etc. Some even wore jeans. Have fun!
What to wear?
Thanks, everyone!
Gail the Goldfish
Hart of Dixie fans in NYC who have Time Warner Cable–I just checked my DVR listings online to make sure it was set to record the season premiere tonight (um, PSA, season premiere is tonight) and it doesn’t show it as scheduled. Instead, it appears the Jets game is playing on that channel at the same time. Someone please tell me this is a mistake of time warner’s not great online system and my Hart of Dixie premiere is not being preempted by the local NFL game that is also playing on ESPN?!
tk1
I believe there is a rule that local games have to be broadcast on a local/non-cable channel. When NFL network first came out, it wasn’t on alot of cable channels (only dish) and there was a huge uproar over Thursday night games that were only on NFL network, so local fans couldn’t watch. So its possible you are preempted.
Gail the Goldfish
:-( I’m going to miss watching shirtless Wade at the same time as the rest of America! (Well, the East coast, anyway)
Susie
Well since my gym no longer offers CW I’ll be missing out too. The Voice it is for me.
anon
Nooo!! Can it be watched on the CW online tonight? Or is there some delay with making new episodes available online?? Very disappointing.
abogada
It will be available on CW online by tomorrow morning, but not tonight.
Miri
hate to be ad hominem, but who is Ellen and WTF is she always posting about after a one-liner that is relevant?
NbyNW
Ellen s our resident troll. Read her/him/it or ignore her/him/it – your choice.