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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Happy Wednesday! I'm digging this herringbone tweed sheath dress — lovely V-neck, cool fold details at the collar, and a faux-leather inset belt — nice, nice, and nice. It's available in sizes 2-16 for $139 at Nordstrom. Anne Klein Herringbone Tweed Sheath Dress
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-3)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Calibrachoa
I really like the dress!
2 days till my interview and I am in jitters. Panicking about hose color and frantically reading up on group interviews. Have shot off requests for people for reference and booking a manicure and and and *flails*
… I am not sure if I am glad or upset that there is a gig tonight out of town I arranged to go to months in advance.
NOLA
Hey, I don’t know if this will help, but I came across this on Yahoo the other day and, as a hiring manager, I think these are really good questions: http://career-services.monster.com/yahooarticle/questions-to-ask-in-every-interview#WT.mc_n=yta_fpt_article_questions_ask_every_interview
One of the things I’ve read recently is that one of the worst things you can do is to not ask good questions in your interview.
You’ll be fine!
Anon
These are great! I have an interview on Monday and this is definitely helpful. Thanks!
Veronique
I’ve used some version of the ideal candidate/outstanding employee question and the “what should I accomplish within first since months” question on several interviews and it has been received very favorably every time!
NOLA
Yeah I think six months is much more realistic than 30 days – at least in my setting. But it’s still a good question.
calibrachoa
Thanks! I have been bitten in the past by lack of questions and I think I will definitely be asking a few of these! I also found a very good one in the archives here asking what they are proud of in regard to the company. It being a start up….. :)
TCFKAG
I think you should definitely be glad about the gig. You are WAY too up in your head. Interviews are conversations – high stakes conversations but conversations all the same. If you are too tense it will show through!
It sounds like you’re super duper prepared and I agree that having a couple questions prepped is definitely the way to go, but then seriously give yourself the weekend off to not worry about it. (Oh … and lay your clothes out the night before. I NEVER do that and it always always nips me in the butt the next morning.)
calibrachoa
Well I am on the bus now and consodering a nap… :D yeah this midweek break before Friday is hopefully going to let me chill although tomorrow will probably be mental!
You are right about the conversation part…. too bad socoally awkward penguin is my patronus.
Susedna
“Socially Awkward Penguin is my patronus” + 1000
B
This dress brings up a question I’ve been meaning to ask the Hive’s input on. What seasons can you wear herringbone/tweed? Living in Texas, our seasons are off, so this makes it even more challenging. I have a herringbone dress and a skirt that I love, but feel very limited on when it’s an appropriate season to wear them.
Veronique
I think herringbone/tweed can be worn in all seasons, at least for work. It just depends on the color, fabric and texture. I have a light brown herringbone skirt that i wear year round. If you’re worried about it looking too heavy in the summer, wear with lighter/brighter colors and fabrics.
S in Chicago
I think of tweed (in anything but a pastel) as being like velvet and suede. I usually limit most of these things to the opposite of white/eyelet season, so September through April/May or so. But a lot has to do with weight of fabric/use in combination with lighter fabrics/overall outfit color, etc. If it feels right to you, then I’m sure it is probably fine. If anything, lack of defined seasons like we have here probably gives you even more room to play.
Parfait
I’m of midwestern origin but live in southern California now. My native urge is always to bust out the tweed in September/October, but those are the hottest months here. Wear it whenever it’s not too hot to.
anon
I think it just depends on the fabric. I have a couple of linen tweed blazers and a heavy cotton tweed blazer I wear in the summer, wool tweed in the winter.
Walnut
As a person who has been interviewing lots of candidates lately, don’t hesitate to sell yourself and tell the interviewer what you want out of this job. I’ve had several candidates not be able to formulate responses to basic questions and not be able to tell me what they expect from me, the employer.
So, sell yourself. Be memorable. And definitely don’t say that you’re “stuck doing the [insert subject matter of job] thing.
Boston Counselor?
Reposting from a few days ago in hopes of a response:
Does anyone have a recommendation for a Boston based therapist or counselor? I’m looking for someone to help me address work-life balance and relationship issues. Thanks!
B
I don’t live in Boston, so can’t help you with specific names, but in case you don’t get any responses, I wanted to recommend zocdoc (yelp for doctors) and just going through your insurance list and googling each person whose location could work for you. It’s a bit of a shot in the dark, but I found some of the counselors had websites that described what they focused on which helped push them up or down my list of ppl to contact.
S
Similarly, psychologytoday[dot]com allows you to search profiles by insurance and location. You can get some sort of sense of someone by their profile and picture.
LizNYC
I’ve done this before too. First I looked up the providers my insurance covered, then cross referenced it with Psych Today. The docs who advertise there write up a bit about themselves and it gave me a clearer picture about the focus of their practice, etc.
file edit view
I saw Donna McNally, http://www.networktherapy.com/Donna-McNally/ , for stress/anxiety/depression mostly triggered by work that was affecting the rest of my life and relationships. She was nice, friendly, very practical/common-sense, interested in evidence and results (mainly CBT-based). She didn’t immediately go to medication, although she can recommend a doctor if you’re interested.
abc
If I remember properly, I believe K in Transition is a therapist and offered a discount once for 1st session for people on this website (or someone from here’s friends). Maybe get in touch with her? Her email is munchkin 16 16 at juno dotcom I hope this helps you and others!
Veronique
Woke up with the kind of pounding headache that feels like Athena is trying to spring out of my head. Hoping the rest of the day gets better…
Anita
Love the metaphor (simile?? I can never remember the difference). Hope you feel better!
Wildkitten
Simile – a metaphor using “like” or “as.” A dozen years later, my brain refuses to un-memorize AP English vocab.
Anonymous
Aspirin (or whatever version of painkiller you prefer) and caffeine.
Anonymous
And tons of water.
Brooklyn Paralegal
If you aren’t super sensitive to caffeine, I recommend Excedrin.
Veronique
Thanks everyone! I took ibuprofen, which helped a bit, but I definitely need to drink more water. Off to drink a glass of water and make a cuppa tea!
For future headache relief, what are your favorite painkillers? Does it vary according to the type of pain?
Anonymous
Ibuprofen is my preferred. I like the Advil Liqui-Gels. And I usually wash them down with a Coke.
Once had a brain hemorrhage
Tylenol never asprin. It doesn’t have the same blood-flow impact.
anon
Ibuprofen PLUS 2 Sudafeds. The combination works for me every time.
Veronique
Do you take Sudafed even when it isn’t a sinus headache?
calibrachoa
Caffeine + water, if that doesn’t help then ibuprofen for a regular headache, amitriptylin for a migraine or tension headache.
Anonymous
Naproxen (Aleve) if it’s just a normal headache. I have a Tramadol rx that I use when I get severe tension headaches.
Bella
I go for advil since most of my headaches are of the hangover variety and tylenol + booze = bad things.
Ru
I take sumatriptan (immitrex) + 2 aleve when I feel the exploding eyeball pain migrating to exploding head pain. But what *really* works is rest, caffeine and pedialyte. Gatorade doesn’t do it for me.
SAlit-a-gator
For the big law associate from yesterday who wanted tips on how to survive working 12+ hour days on a regular basis – please take care of yourself. Just stumbled across an article about a banking intern in London who died after pulling three all nighters. They mention he might have been epilectic, but I honestly don’t think the all nighters helped any. No job is worth dying over.
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/20/banking_intern_dies_after_working_three_all_nighters/
Woods-comma-Elle
This has been doing the rounds at my (London Biglaw) firm today. Scary stuff. Likely your bosses won’t be telling you to go home and rest up so make sure you look out for yourself, nobody else is going to.
KC
I think there’s a bit of a rush to label his death due to sleep deprivation. Not to say it’s a healthy lifestyle, because obviously there are few people who can actually function normally on no sleep. I’m just surprised by the number of news outlets that have immediately reported that a lack of sleep was the cause of death.
Ditto what Woods-comma-Elle says though. It’s a hard lesson to learn, that no one is going to say “Hey, you look tired, go home early.” Figuring out how to take care of yourself and ask for help when you need it is a tremendously important professional skill.
Nonny
Yes, and when I did my stint in London I witnessed more than my fair share of sleep-deprived, overworked colleagues (a) having nervous breakdowns, (b) developing eating disorders, (c) seriously injuring themselves due to fatigue, and (d) suffering major depression. I was shocked, but the firm viewed it more or less as a cost of doing business. This atmosphere and attitude is all too common in GiantLaw and was a significant factor in my decision to leave.
LH
+1. While I don’t know anyone who has died from working too hard (thankfully) I know numerous people who have landed themselves in the hospital. You can find another job or if necessary career. You can’t get another life. Don’t sacrifice your health.
DC recruiters?
TJ- has anyone worked with a recruiting co in DC and have a positive experience to share? Would love any recommendations (this would be for non-law positions). TIA!
Baconpancakes
Are you looking for temp, permanent, temp-to-hire, etc?
DC recruiters?
Permanent, preferably. Thanks!
eek
Also, what is your industry?
eek
I was did some work with The Mergis Group but they were too finance/accounting focused for me. Otherwise, I did like them. I went to their office out by the Ritz in McLean.
eek
I did some work with The Mergis Group but they were too finance/accounting focused for me. Otherwise, I did like them. I went to their office out by the Ritz in McLean.
CountC
I had great success with Hire Strategy. Brett Gerson there is fabulous. Email me at cartereventsllc at gmail dot com for her direct dial and email address.
In-house nightmare. Please help.
What a good segue above to my threadjack:
I am in-house counsel for a company and I am at my wits’ end. Have been here for one year. I am typing this from my office, where I have been working non-stop for the last 26 hours. As a former BigLaw lawyer I am not a stranger to hard work, but this sprint has become a marathon with no sign of slowing. Obviously the answer would be to look for a new job. But I’m not licensed here, so law firms are out, and there are really no other employers in my large town that would have a need for my skill set. I feel utterly trapped and hopeless, like I am being set up to fail for the amusement of those senior to me. The response here to crazy workload seems to be that it is your fault for being inefficient. Plus I am severely constrained in what I can spend for outside counsel, so I can only engage people who are >not< willing to work all night alongside me. So I pick up the slack, or try to. My internal clients are screaming that every project on my plate needs to be my "top" priority, yet there truly are not enough hours in the day to handle everything (I just proved that in the last 26 hours), and I am beholden to internal stakeholders who do not respond to me as quickly as I need them to. And I own a house. If I sell it, I will lose half my life savings in selling costs. If it were not for the house I would have quit months ago.
Can anybody offer advice? I'm so lost. And tired. And sorry for the incoherent post.
TBK
Are there any other lawyers in your department (it sounds like they are and that you’re not a one-person legal department)? Anyone else at your level? If so, can you find out if (1) they’re working at the same pace you are; (2) if not, whether their workloads are the same or if they truly are more efficient? If several of you are pulling all-nighters on a regular basis, it can’t be that you’re all unacceptably inefficient and it just means your department needs help (either more in-house lawyers/legal staff, or more resources to hire outside counsel). If not and their workloads are smaller, that seems to give you back-up to ask that some of your work be shifted onto their plates (assuming they have similar specialities — if, for example, you’re the sole IP person, maybe they need more IP help). If they’re actually working more efficiently, then you need to find out why. Do they have more background in this area from their previous jobs? Have they been there longer and just figured things out about the company that you’re not familiar with? Or (and this is a big one) are you working on a biglaw timeline and not an in-house timeline? That is, in biglaw, every document has to be 110% perfect, and is often reviewed by 20 people before getting out the door, plus the default is to go down every rabbithole, researching every little issue that could possibly ever arise (because, hey, more billables and it’s much easier to write off time than to explain why you failed to research an issue that, against all odds, became the BIG issue for this matter). In-house, the focus is on efficiency and being more selective about rabbitholes (or ignoring them altogether). I’m not saying this is you, but it’s certainly a trap that gets a lot of former biglaw people.
A
+1 on the rabbit holes and work quality. I take my job really seriously and so does everyone around me but at a gvt lawyer I focus on what needs to be done most and let the rabbit holes, stray typos, and tangential questions slide.
Gov anon
+2. It’s tough, but I’m expected to focus on the main issue only. If necessary, I make a mental note of the tangetial issues as things that might arise at some future date. But don’t deal with them now. 99% of the time they don’t become things that need to be dealt with.
P
Hugs! Your post is completely coherent and I really feel for you. If it comes down to it, seriously, claim some horrible illness (diarrhea? projectile vomiting? nobody will question you on that.) and take a day or two off. I know you’re in a terrible position because it sounds like you’re either the only one in-house or, at the very least, have a ton on your plate that you’d be punished for not completing – so taking a day off may feel like it makes the problem worse. But really, you’re not saving babies and your company will survive without you. Your job isn’t worth “snapping” over.
Short of that, would it be at all feasible to schedule a sit-down with your direct supervisor or higher-up? It sounds like you’re in a good place to do it if that person is at all pragmatic: I know you said the culture isn’t very sympathetic, but 26 hours is a hell of a long time and few reasonable people would tell you that you need to suck it up or be more efficient. It’s possible that they just don’t realize how much is on your plate and how exhausted you are.
Again, hugs. A year from now this situation will be long gone.
Diana Barry
I agree. Come down with an illness and take the day off!
Also, how long had you been practicing? Could you waive into current jurisdiction? I wouldn’t assume that all law firms are off the table because you’re not licensed there *yet*.
ss
Much sympathy !
Might it help to consider if you are spending too much time in internal meetings, and if you can control or cut this back ? It is fine to let a client take as much time as they want in meetings when you are billing as outside counsel, but once in-house, you need get what you need from a meeting and then bring it to a close, so you can stay on top of your load.
I mention this because I have encountered at least one senior counsel at a major bank who wanted her staff present in as many meetings as possible because ‘we in legal are stakeholders too’. None of her staff had time to do their actual work – they were all tied up in meetings where they had only tangential relevance.
Anonymous
Dear In-House Counsel,
I am an in-house counsel and I feel for you! You need to immediatley have a frank discussion with your boss and request – no – DEMAND the resources that you require to preform work in the timeframe that internal clients expect. If more outside counsel dollars and not available, how about temp attorneys and paralegals? With all of the unemployed attorneys out there, they are cheaper, and frankly often times more efficient and effective. You have to get the decision makers at your company to understand that turnaround time from legal is inversely proportinal to the staffing of the legal department. I have heard that just like women often underrepresent their salary requriements, they also underreprsent to senior leadership the amount of staffing support needed to reach certain levels of productivity. It seems like you are also in this situation. Good luck!
Carrie Preston
Oh wow, I have to comment as I’ve been in-house for a long time & most of my professional friends are too, and while I’ve heard varying degrees of workloads, this sounds extreme to me. Given that you sound newer to it, I’ll offer some thoughts with the caveat that every business is different & hopefully something here will help you:
– have you talked to your GC about your workload? A good one won’t want you to burn out like this.
– It sounds like you might be doing more on matters than is typically expected in-house to have that much work. If you’re rewriting everything to “lawfirm” standards, you might want to step back & assess if you’re doing too much. A lot of in-house practice is about recognizing risk and getting matters to a place where you’ve reduced that, not to “perfection” like biglaw demands.
– Are you setting and managing expectations internally? Almost all clients I’ve ever had wanted their work “top of the list” but in-house I’ve found they tend to back down once you explain a realistic time-frame or explain just what can get done in the timeframe they’re looking for. Saying “no” internally isn’t as bad as saying “yes” and then not being able to deliver.
– Do you have friends in-house? If not, is there an active ACC chapter near you? I’d seek that out, go to some meetings and talk with people about what they do exactly & how to approach your work.
Good luck!
ABC
I know that adding studying into the mix won’t help your current over-worked situation, but you should consider taking the bar exam in February (if you can’t waive into your current jurisdiction). At least then you would have an option of looking for a firm job in your new city….
Anon for this
Reposting from yesterday topic. I am the OP who is stuck overseas.
Thank you all for taking time to reply to me. I really appreciate it. You guys are really the best here.
I don’t mind giving more information :). I am from Portugal and I am living in South Africa.
To back up a little bit, I am here since January 2010. It took me one year and half to get a temporary residency permit (complications involving government firing people in the Home Affairs department messed up with everything or so they told me…). Last year, my residence permit was due on November, so before November we gathered all the papers and applied for renewal (we have a lawyer that did this for us), I am now still waiting for it… They already lost one of my documents which the lawyer sent again… Without a residency permit, I cannot get a work permit. To get a work permit, apparently, I need a job offer or a contract. To get a contract or a job offer, most workplaces requires a work permit…. They couldn’t making it harder, could they?
Anyway, while I have been in this rollercoaster I have been a volunteer in an animal shelter and even did veterinary nurse work at the shelter. I did an animal communicator workshop, I did yoga, drama classes, et cetera. In addition, last year while I was studying law I also did some occasional work at my boyfriend’s uncle office (he is a lawyer) and I loved to help. In summary, I have been doing a few things but I don’t have any formal qualification that I can show to an employer and most of my time has been spent at home.
The reason why I quit most of the things I was doing is that I reached a breakdown and probably depression. I feel I have wasted so much of my time and energy for nothing. It feels nothing goes right for me at this place and life is showing I am not in the right place for me. There is no motivation. Nowadays, anything I do here feels like a sacrifice.
I am looking to go back to Europe. I have been checking Sweden. There is a growing young Portuguese community there (in Stockholm), the education is free for citizens and EU citizens and since its a EU country, I do not need any visas or permits to work or reside. The only con seems to be the language, however, they also offer Swedish classes for immigrants for free in each municipality.
My big constraint is not having any savings. If I had something that at least would be enough to rent a small studio, I would go in an instant. I wouldn’t mind living on water + cookies for awhile if it would be necessary.
I must say that if it wasn’t for my cat, I would have gone bananas a long time ago. He has been a rock for me and I want to take him wherever I go. I rather buy the cookies for him and I will live in water if necessary.
Anon for this
I just wanted to add that it has been very difficult to deal with the fact that my boyfriend pays for everything. In addition, I used to be a very independent girl (I even worked while studying to pay university while I was in Portugal).
My life just completely turned upside down and I have no idea how to to make it right.
P
Maybe this is naive, but have you looked into some sort of a service program? I’m in the US, but here we have programs like AmeriCorps, where they hire you for service-type positions (often things like helping set up gardens in low income elementary schools or pushing recycling efforts in rural towns) and pay you a stipend and an education reimbursement. They’re usually one-year contracts.
You might be able to find something like that in Sweden, and teaching English would probably be a possibility. It just popped into my head because it sounds like you need a change, but you don’t quite know what it should be – I think the programs are fairly structured. They don’t pay a ton, but it would be something, and the service aspect might also make your work feel more valuable.
Anon for this
Thanks for your suggestions P. I will look if there is something like that in Sweden.
B
Wow… I was a bit stumped to read this because I have been in a very similar situation. Followed a man to South Africa, lived there for a long time, never managed to obtain a work or residency permit, didn’t like the place at all, became too dependent on the man, got depressed… So just want to say I hear you and darn those SA men. I eventually decided I needed to pick myself up, vowed to always be financially dependent in the future, and am working on my goals again. It’s not easy, and I am currently relying on my family for financial support while I am getting back on my feet. I have a couple of job opportunities lined up though so am pretty confident that it’s just a matter of time and I will be able to pay back all my debt.
I think the really important thing is to concentrate on yourself and what you want. You are still young and you can still have everything you want. Sweden does sound like an option, if you can maybe reach out through the Portugese community there and maybe find a job doing something like waitressing, and start from there. Maybe look into any kind of EU funded scholarship programs/ financial support for higher education/ vocational training/ any kind of welfare money etc. As a EU citizen, I am sure there will be some kind of options for you once you start looking. It’s not going to be easy, and it’s probably going to take some time, but try to think positive and keep your eyes on your goals, and you WILL get there. And get out of SA!!! There is nothing there, you are much better off in Europe!
Anon for this
Wow. You must know exactly what I am going through. It is a nightmare for foreigners here in SA Thanks for telling me your story and for the inspiration.
I am way too focused in getting some cash to allow me to move out and rent in Sweden, maybe I should play on the lottery… who knows…
emeralds
This sounds like an incredibly difficult situation and I’m so sorry you’re going through it. If I were you, I’d get myself back to Europe ASAP–could you go back to Portugal and stay with family while you try to get your feet back under you? I know the economy is difficult there, especially for young people, but it seems like it would be a lot easier to get from Portugal –> Sweden (or Germany? have you considered Germany? I lived in Spain for the last year, and a lot of my Spanish friends were seriously considering moving there because so many jobs were available) than from South Africa –> Sweden. You sound so desperate and unhappy, and I really get the sense that nothing about SA is working for you, that in your position I would move mountains to try and make a location change.
Anon for this
Thanks emeralds. I haven’t said anything to my parents what is unfair for them, I recognize this.
I am just trying to burden them with my problems and save them the sadness of seeing me leaving again one day. I know financially they can’t help me much, but I know my bedroom is there waiting for me and my cat whenever I need. I am seriously considering this. I haven’t even visited my family since I arrived here. I have no friends here, nothing, it’s miserable.
You are totally right, I am so desperate.
Coach Laura
To OP Stuck overseas in SA:
What about using the Portuguese community to find a live-in nanny job in Sweden? You could use that time to start thinking of your next career or schooling step.
Seeing your last post, I think you and your cat would be happiest going to your parents for a short time and then -even though it’s hard – leaving for Sweden as soon as you have something lined up. Sending good vibes to you.
Anon for this
That’s a great idea. I am going to google this right now. Thanks for the idea and for the vibes. :)
To B: I want to wish you good luck too, I am sure the worst has passed and you will get back on track and pay all your debt. Stay strong too.
USA in RSA
It sounds like you are looking to leave regardless, but these are my thoughts if you are interested in sorting things out in SA:
I got temporary residence and a work permit through my South African live-in partner. Once I had my application in, my lawyer wrote me a letter explaining to HR departments that there is a legal precedent for having a “de facto” permit if your application is not processed within 30 days (which nothing ever is). The idea is that Home Affairs being terrible is not your fault. Also, as the life partner of a South African, you have the right to support yourself and your partner, so they should be able to add a “permission to work” note on your residency permit.
The above is how I got myself sorted out, at least–I got hired on the lawyer’s letter and, soon after, my permit came through. Talk to Eisenberg & Associates in Cape Town….they made this happen for me.
Finally, I’m in Jozi–if you are in Gauteng, we should arrange a drink. Do you have an email address I can use to contact you?
TBK
Best part of being pregnant so far: it’s 100% socially acceptable for me to walk around in public with my pants unbuttoned. My tighter pants stopped fitting this weekend and I’m rocking the bella band today. How inappropriate would it be for me to never button my pants again and just wear bella bands forever? Seriously. I bet I’m 100% more comfortable than 98% of my office today (the other 2% being the 7 months pregnant coworker who is firmly in maternity pantsland – I bet her pants are even comfier than mine).
Famouscait
This made me laugh out loud. I sat at my desk for much of Monday with my also-too-tight pants waistband unbuttoned/partially unzipped. Sounds like I should look into the bella band, too!
TBK
I got a couple at Target, just to try them out. So far, so good. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but it can be a little fussy when you have to go to the bathroom (which is, like, all the time), but otherwise definitely a win.
preg anon
Seriously, maternity pants are the best. I’m thinking of wearing my maternity jeans to Thanksgiving dinner for the rest of my life.
JJ
I’m at the point where I hate, hate, hate all my maternity clothes and hope they all spontaneously catch fire one day so I never have to see them again…but I’ll still be sad to give up those elastic waistband jeans.
eek
Didn’t Joey do this in an episode of Friends? Ha!
RR
JJ, glad to have solidarity. Burn all the maternity clothes!
Nonny
I heart my maternity jeans.
But you guys….maternity leggings are where it’s at. I discovered them last week and never want to wear ordinary leggings Ever.Again.
Ellen
Kat, this is a great selection, b/c I love Anne Klein! But the V neck could be a probelem with Frank, for obvious oooogeling reasons I will NOT get into here.
For the OP, I think you can do this as long as you are PREGENENT, and mabye for a few month’s after (Rosa did it till she lost the baby pound’s, but she was svelte to begin with), but I do NOT think you should go around WITHOUT buttoning your pant’s b/c you will NEVER loose the weight other wise, especialy the weight in your TUCHUS. Rosa used bella band’s b/c she never bought a big wardrobe, so I can NOT even ask her for her maternity thing’s when I get pregenent, which will be AFTER I get married, and hopefulley VERY soon. Rosa took about a month or 2 to get back to her NORMAL weight of 103. I am so jelous of that. I will never get that light. FOOEY!
Sam sent over a box of GODIVA chocolates, which I left out at Lynn’s desk for everyone to eat. The manageing partner says Sam want’s to fatten me up like a Thanksgiving Turkey so that other guy’s will NOT be interested, but I am NOT eateing that chocolate myself. The manageing partner ate about 6 pieces already, and I onley put it out this morning! He will be the Turkey with the SUPERTUCHUS for Margie, not me! YAY!!!!
Anonymous
If you eat the chocolates, then have a disagreement with him, you’ll be able to win your arguments by sitting on him and win, because you will have a bigger tuchus than him!
Kanye East
Godiva is SO mass-market. I only eat CHOKLITZ from a speshalty BOOTEAK, and their so expensiff that I never eat enough to give myself a SUPERTUCHUS.
KANYE FOOEY!
R
I’m four months post-baby and still wear my bella band on especially fleshy days. Best invention ever. They should seriously market it to non-pregs for those days when you eat 12 million falafels and feel like you’re going to explode.
RR
Love this. I came to be annoyed by the bella band by the end. Honestly, by the end of both pregnancies, I have found that the siren call of the elastic waist gives way to a desire to burn all maternity wear in protest. But maybe that’s just me? I’m in the slightly ragey, end of pregnancy, get this baby the hell out of me phase of pregnancy. :)
Betty
Me too! Yes! Burn all the maternity gear (as I gaze longingly at belts that I can no longer wear)! I’m down to my last week. I have exactly 4 outfits that fit and more days of work left than that. I feel like I’m impersonating Godzilla with every step, and I need to be careful with what I say, otherwise I will bite the head off of anyone that comes near me.
JJ
Welcome to our club, Betty! This baby is being evicted on Friday if he doesn’t come earlier…and not a moment too soon. I think every maternity shirt that I own now has stains on the upper-belly region. And that’s the least of my concerns.
Coach Laura
Betty, how did the day care situation turn out? I hope you were able to get that resolved easily!
RR
I hope you are still reading because this is SOOOOOO me. Baby is leaving on Monday at the latest, and I’m to the point of wanting to punch anyone who talks to me, even though everyone is being perfectly lovely. I’m trying to power through the rest of this week without succumbing to the lure of wearing flip flops, yoga pants, and a dirty t-shirt to work. And I’m not sure I’ll be successful.
Boot Question
I got an amazing deal on these boots at TJ Maxx last night ($79.99!), but I’m concerned that they are a tad too high to wear to work. The platform is 1″ and the heel is 4.5″. I work in a very unconventional office and nobody is particularly conservative, although I try to err on the side of conservative. My winter uniform is dress or skirt, black tights and black boots. My old ones finally had it after 4 seasons and I am looking for a nice leather pair to replace them.
Are they too high? They are quite comfortable and get good reviews online, if that matters. They were originally $325 at Nordstrom, Michael Kors, Neiman Marcus, etc., but I’m wondering if I’m simply blinded by the great price.
http://www.lyst.com/shoes/michael-by-michael-kors-lesly-knee-boot-black-1/
Cat
I’m prejudiced by not being a fan of platforms at all, but I do think a 1″ platform is high for work boots.
Boots Question
I know. Everything about the boot is absolutely perfect except the platform. They are exactly what I am looking for, but I wish there was no platform. I wonder if I could somehow have them resoled without the platform. Even if it cost me $20-$30 to do it, it would still be a great deal.
LilyB
I would never wear boots like that to work. If I saw someone wearing them I’m afraid I would seriously question their judgment.
CKB
I work in a business casual environment, and I would absolutely wear those boots. They are high, but the rest of the boot is very conservative which, imo, helps offset the high heel. And with black tights, that adds to the conservative-ness of your outfit. Sounds like you found a great deal on a great pair of boots!
TO Lawyer
Honestly, I like them. I think if you wore them with a conservative outfit and black tights, they wouldn’t look too out of place at work. I wouldn’t wear them in a conservative office but since you said your office is unconventional, I think they could work with the right outfit.
Veronique
+1. Not for a conservative environment, but I think they’d look great in a more casual office.
Lyssa
I agree, though I’d caution that body-type and overall, I don’t know, impression you give off? might play a role. They’d be far easier to pull off if you’re on the shorter side, than if you happen to be very tall and curvy, IMO. But I think they’d probably be fine with a conservative outfit. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen attorneys wear boots that high to court in winter.
preg 3L
A former coworker of mine had boots like these, which she wore with a leather sheath dress. That was a bit much. Maybe under pants?
Boots Question
I don’t really wear pants very often. In the winter, especially because I dislike when the cuffs get slushy and snowy. I live in a very snowy city.
AG
Those boots are great, but I would only wear then with pants if I was going to wear them to work.
Blair Waldorf
Love the boots. I couldn’t wear them at my workplace but I could see how they would be appropriate in more unconventional workplaces.
However, they are PERFECT for out of the office and you should definitely keep them even if you choose not to wear them to work, since they were such a great deal! :)
Cornellian
I think the combination of the tall shaft and the platform pushes them out of work territory unless you wear pants (but then, what’s the point?), unfortunately.
Brant
How tall are you? I ask because if you are on the medium/tall side, I think these might be too much. If you’re more on the petite side and work these with dark tights and/or pants, I think they’re fine. They’d be fine on the shorter ladies in my biz casual office.
They’d be absurd on me :)
B
Ditto. Our HR person who was 5′ or less wore shoes like that all the time and it was fine because people understand why they’d go platform.
Also agree that the rest of the boot is super conservative so it wouldn’t be inappropriate. When I saw the “question judgment” comment, I thought there’d be serious spikes and other lace up action going on.
KC
This was my thought as well. I could only see that much of a platform/heel potentially working on someone who’s petite.
Boots Question
I’m 5’2″ and pretty small.
I have a great shoe guy, so I’m going to leave the tags on, etc. and bring them to him and ask him honest opinion about removing the platform and lowering the heel by 1/2 an inch or so. If he can’t do it without potentially ruining them, I may return them. I don’t really need high leather boots for non-work. I have a pair of brown heeled boots that are casual/non-work boots and a pair of black leather motorcycle boots that are also casual/non-work.
I definitely don’t think they veer into judgement questioning mode, but I don’t want to look tacky. I strive to always look polished and put together and wearing boots that are meant for Saturday nights can diminish that look.
Susie
Let us know how it turns out, I’m curious if this type of alteration is possible.
stringer
NO, they are adorbs and not at all inappropriate! Own It!
Batgirl
I think I’m a bit old-fashioned, but I work in a very casual office (think flip flops and t-shirts for some people) and I wouldn’t wear them to work. To each her own, though!
Susie
On the other hand, I’d wear these boots but not flip-flops! (Or any open-toed shoes for that matter)
Batgirl
Oh, I don’t wear flip flops. I do wear open toed shoes, however. I tend to think that platformed heels or super high heels give off more of a sexy vibe than a casual vibe–so I’d be fine with casual in my office less fine with sexy. But that said, I think they’re great boots and wouldn’t really judge someone for wearing them to work–I just would feel self-conscious in them.
Anonymous
Heh, I am not at all old-fashioned, but I would wear these boots … never.
PolyD
I think these are fine and don’t understand why people would tell you to wear them under pants. Do people seriously wear knee-high boots under pants? That seems so uncomfortable.
My only hesitation is that, to me, they look a lot like a pair of boots I had in the late 1990s – early 2000. Mine were ankle boots and had a shorter heel, but same platform and shape. I wore them to work at my biotech company all the time – under pants, but they were ankle boots. So to me, they actually look a little data. But maybe the fashion cycle has come back to boots like these again.
I realize my office is extreme (women wear rubber flip flops and those capris that tie below the knee, skimpy sundresses not always with a cardigan, haven’t seen any guys in shorts but it wouldn’t surprise me) but I am often a bit surprised by how strict some of you seem to be about dressing for the office. I never would have thought that knee high boots with a dress would be inappropriate for work – granted, these are a little extreme, but a more conservative boot with a lower heel and smaller platform, I would think that would be entirely appropriate. These differences are very interesting to me.
PolyD
Ha – they look a little DATED.
Also, leaving the second l out of my name seems to keep me out of moderation, mostly. Weird.
Batgirl
I definitely wear boots with skirts in the fall/winter–I just wouldn’t wear these because of the platform/super high heel. But I also have terrible feet so i can’t wear much of a heel at all.
Woods-comma-Elle
Love these. I personally don’t wear knee-high boots to work usually as I find them a bit uncomfortable in the office, but I am not one to ask for judgment on high heels – most of my work and other heels are sky high and I wear platforms regularly. Business casual, Big Law, no eyelids batted.
anon atty
This. I’m right there with you — Biglaw partner who rarely wears anything under 4 inches. That said, I do think it depends on the rest of your outfit. Make sure everything else fits properly, is ironed properly, and isnt showing too much skin, and you are good to go.
Anonymous
+1. Regional, midsized law here. 5’8″ barefoot, and I regularly wear heels over 4″ with or without platforms. I haven’t been able to pull of the knee-high boots with suit, but if you can, go for it.
Senior Attorney
I wear knee-high boots to the office, and I have been known to wear 1″ platforms to the office, but I don’t think I’d wear platform knee-high boots to the office. It just seems a tiny bit over the line for me and my business semi-formal style. YMMV, of course. It might be just fine in a business casual office.
But my goodness! At that price you MUST keep them whether you decide to wear them to work or not!!
Anonymous
Conservative, midwest finance here, and I would wear them in a heartbeat, as would several of my coworkers. A few other coworkers crack jokes about our street shoes (in a friendly, wish-they-could-walk-in-them-so-they-could-rock-them-too sort of way). Know your office, though, and probably don’t go all dominatrix with the rest of your outfit.
Anon
I think it would be fine to wear if you wear them with a conservative dress or skirt/top. Something boxy or with a boatneck. If you wear them with anything tight or showing cleavage, it would be too much.
Famouscait
I live in a small town, that I’m now realizing is *really* small, at times. I just responded to a Craigslist ad about a piece of nursery furniture… Turns out the poster is the fiancee of one of my husband’s colleagues, and our baby news is NOT public yet. Crap. I explained the situation to her and got an assurance of confidence, but he’s a loud mouth (both literally and figuratively) so I’m not as convinced that he’ll be able to keep quiet. I just sent my husband a text w/o explaining the how of the situation, which I’m sure has him totally baffled. Gah!!!
Excuse me while I go sign myself up for a totally non-attributable Gmail account….
Anonymous
I’m impressed that you are early enough that you are not telling, and yet organized enough to already be shopping for baby furniture!
Famouscait
I think “organized” is a kind view of it…. “impulsive” may be more accurate! =)
preg 3L
+1! I wish I were so organized!
Cb
Yikes! Hopefully his fiancée will impress upon him the need to keep quiet?
Brant
Did your coworker’s fiance make the connection? Or did you?
There’s a decent chance the seller won’t mention it. Otherwise…just hope for the best/ hope coworker forgets to mention it for a few weeks. Not too much you can do…
Fed Hire
Does anyone have insight on how long the hiring process typically is in the federal government (assuming the position requires only a background check and not a clearance)? I know it varies, but I have an interview next week and just trying to ballpark how long it would be from then until a decision might be made, and until I’d be likely to start if I got the job. TIA!
Anon
It just really depends on how motivated they are to fill the position and other internal factors. It could be anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months. Sorry, I know that’s not very helpful.
anonforthis
There is a good chance they will make a decision before September 30th and want you to start right before or right after September 30th because that is the end/start of the fiscal year. BUT, as Anon says, there’s really no way of knowing. My current gov’t position called to offer me a job on a Wednesday about 4 weeks after my interview and wanted me to start the following Monday (which I did because I was dying to shove it to my a-hole boss, but obviously that’s not a strategy that is generally recommended).
PolyD
Most people I know, it’s taken 6-9 months. Good point about trying to get you on board before September 30, but I wouldn’t count on it. Plus, with Congressional shenanigans over the budget and the debt limit, who knows what that will do for hiring.
I applied in August, had my interviews in November, heard I was hired in early January, and started March 30. I think my BF interviewed in June-July and started around Thanksgiving.
Le Tote
Ladies, have we discussed this?
http://letote.com
It’s like Netflix, for clothes. I am intrigued! Has anyone tried it?
Jennifer
Sorry, you guys, this is Jennifer. I’m not a spammer! I realize now that it probably seems like it. Seriously: saw this company mentioned on Twitter this morning and am really curious if any of y’all have heard of it/tried it out.
EMS
I just signed up for Le Tote. I got my first package last week and am sending it back today for my next tote. It’s pretty fun, and you can send back the clothes as much as you want for the same $50/month. We shall see how the next few totes go.
Veronique
Other than the little survey, do you have any control over what clothes they send you? I think it would be interesting to try, but I can would mostly want it or work clothes and I can be very particular about my clothes (prefer dresses at or below the knee, for example). I’d also worry that the clothes might be a little too trendy for my tastes.
EMS
Once you log in there are pages of clothes you go through and “like”, and you get variations of those (colors, etc). The exact pieces they send you each month are randomly selected from your “likes”. This tote, I received a dress, two shirts, a necklace, and earrings. The clothes are trendy, and not always work appropriate, but they are fun weekend/going out clothes. You also have the option of purchasing the pieces they send you at a discounted price.
Suburban lady
Hey ladies! I just found out I will be undergoing a surgery in mid September. It’s outpatient, and I should be home that night. My doctor said my recovery will be about a week. Any tips on getting life/work/health in order for this sort of thing?
Veronique
Make sure the house is clean and laundry is done (yourself or pros) before you go in, especially clean sheets on your bed.
Stock the freezer with lots of healthy meal options (ideally homemade). Depending on the type of surgery, you may not feel like eating a lot at first, so have options like pudding cups, yogurt and bottled smoothies as well.
Get lots of sleep the night before and make sure you follow instructions about when to stop eating. Be prepared to sleep a lot more than normal the first few days (again surgery dependent). Load up the dvr or netflix with tv/movies that you would like to see.
Arrange work so that you can be completely incommunicado for the entire week, if necessary. You may be able to work from home or check email before then, but it’s best to prepare for the worst. Don’t feel the need to rush back before you are healed.
Senior Attorney
You will be required to have someone to drive you home. Last time I had outpatient surgery, the instructions specifically said that they would not release you to go home in a cab. And you should definitely plan to have somebody stay with you at least the first night, and preferably the first few nights. If you don’t have somebody you can ask, it might be worth it to look into hiring somebody to come in and stay with you.
Also, make sure you don’t take your pain pills on an empty stomach. (Don’t ask me how I know this…)
Anon for this
Career advice, ladies. For those of you who have been or who are currently in BigLaw and DON’T want to become partner, at what point did you leave and what did you do next? I am currently a fifth year. I spoke to a recruiter recently who said that if you stick around BigLaw for too long (aka 7/8th year), you end up not being as marketable because you’re too expensive for another place to hire, and other places want someone a bit more junior that they can train. Wondering if this is true, based on other people’s experience.
I currently have a very good thing going at my firm, and would be inclined to stick around for another 2 years. I billed 2100 last year, which is a lot but not insane. I just returned from a long maternity leave and work 4 days a week, which I’m happy with. The people here are great. There is no face time and I can go and come when I please, and work from home if I want. But, I don’t want to become partner because I don’t want to work the hours that the job requires, so I know that my time here is limited.
If/when I leave, I don’t know what else I would do. I can’t really see myself going to another firm unless the billables were signficantly less. My ideal next job would be to work in the Civl Division at DOJ in DC but since I don’t live or don’t plan to live in DC, that probably won’t happen. And the gov’t jobs in my city pay next to nothing.
Advice on when to leave, and what others did post-BigLaw, would be greatly appreciated.
Diana Barry
Can you share type of practice area? Litigation? Are there any part-time partners?
There is usually some kind of in-house option, depending on your area of practice it may be different kinds of companies/banks/etc. When I looked at in-house (T+E) the majority of positions were in banks/trust companies, but there were also some at asset managers and (fewer still) at universities in planned giving, just to give you an idea. The other option is a smaller firm. My small firm has an 1800 requirement, and I work 80% so it is pro-rated. You do have to find the right place, though, with similar no-facetime flexibility.
Diana Barry
PS – I left biglaw at the end of 5th year.
OP
Thanks Diana. I’m a litigator. My understanding is that in-house positions for litigators are few and far between. I’m in Boston as well, by the way. There are partners who are “part-time” but even they have an insane life, which I do not want. So I know that I will need to leave at some point, it’s just a matter of when and where next. I have strong academic and clerkship credentials, so I am confident that I could land something elsewhere, the question is just what that will be.
Diana Barry
I know a litigator who is in-house at big pharma and left at 7th year/junior partner time, but that is definitely late. The other litigators tend to go to smaller firms, or US attorney/state prosecutor offices, or other state jobs (DOR, etc.) One of my friends works for the state and can actually work from home on occasion, sweet pension, etc.
I would start talking to recruiters now, even if you don’t really want to leave yet, because the process takes time and you don’t want to get stuck (right?).
Betty
Former Boston biglaw here. I left around my 5th year to go work for the government, and had many colleagues defect around the same time. I remember hearing that staying beyond your 7th year can make it tougher to find another biglaw opportunity. However, there are opportunities to go in-house with litigation in Boston. A couple of thoughts popped into my mind: as Diana Barry said, there are big pharma companies in Boston that take litigators. There are also insurance companies and tech and data companies that take litigators. One thought is to look at your clients: are they local? could you go in house with a current client?
Paging Betty
Betty – This is the OP. I would love to chat with you offline about your transition to gov’t. Could you please email me at bostoncorp108 at gmail dot com? Or let me know how I can reach out to you. Thanks!
Paging Betty
Betty – This is the OP. I would love to chat with you offline about your transition to gov’t. Could you please email me at bostoncorp108 at gmail dot com? Or let me know how I can reach out to you. Thanks!
anon for this
I think ti really depends on where you want to go (both in terms of type of job and city). I have a legal recruiter friend in Austin who says it’s hard to place anyone above fourth year in BigLaw, for example. I think fourth or fifth year is often considered the sweet spot, anecdotally, which also makes sense to me intuitively.
I would also consider the possibility of a freeze out as a senior associate… it seems to happen to a lot of associates, again anecdotally. As your billing rate goes up you can become harder to justify, I guess, if you’re not partner track and starting to prepare to bring in your own business.
I would probably start saving aggressively from your salary, honestly, so you have more options open to you to take a lower-paying job or deal with a freeze-out.
Veronique
My friends in BigLaw started looking at exit options around the fourth year. I’ve also heard that 4-5 years is the sweet spot. That seems to be around the time that most of the in-house attorneys I know have transitioned.
Keep in mind that it can take over a year to find the right position, so you should definitely start looking sooner rather than later, even before you’re ready to leave.
V
At my firm, we have a “Counsel” category that is mostly senior people who aren’t partner for various reasons (some: not enough business of their own to warrant it, not interested, P/T, want to publish a lot). All bespoke arrangements (except for the few associates promoted into it to reassure clients that they’re dealing with a senior person and not a first year). Do you not have that?
Also, FWIW, we have partners of all sorts who are PT (and some who are functionally PT b/c of the recession). If your firm doesn’t have this and that is the only reason you don’t want to be a partner, I’d just go to another firm (BUT I bet your firm would let you work out something that works for you — if they’ve kept you this long, they must want to keep you around, especially since they let you drop down to 4 days a week).
Good luck!
Amy H.
+1
Agree that 4th-5th year BigLaw is the sweet spot. Whether or not you have the option, as a senior associate who does not want to make partner, to go of counsel, varies HUGELY from firm to firm, but it was a great solution for me. I also went to 80% time and that allowed me to go back and get an LL.M. to change practice areas eventually.
If you would be happy to stay at your current firm so long as the hours got more reasonable and you never had the pressure to make partner/build your own book, this might be a great solution. But I recognize that not all firms have this as a possibility.
RR
My perspective may be a little different because I’m “BigLaw” in the Midwest rather than NYC or LA or DC, so I think we are a little different. But, at least at my firm, there is a path for people who don’t want to be partner. We have a lot of of counsel, non-partner track, staff attorney, part time, etc. people, all of whom are valued by the firm. The fact that you are able to work 4 days a week suggests that your firm may have a similar path. If you otherwise feel like it’s a good fit, then can you talk to a partner or two that you trust about the reality of such situations at your firm? I know I’ve had that conversation with associates who work for me, and we have no issue with people who don’t want to be partner. The key is to have the conversation and be honest with the firm. Then, as long as you make money for the firm, you are fine.
options options..
I sympathize with your situation.
Why do you think DC isn’t an option? I would strongly encourage you to think about government positions, on a state level as well as federal. Sure, there will be a pay cut, but if you actually think that DOJ is something you would enjoy and your CV is good, maybe it’s time to really give it a try? You are going to have to compromise somewhere, and it would be unfortunate if you are forced to take a job in an industry you don’t enjoy just for money etc… although many many people do.
My colleagues who work in government positions (most are on the city/circuit court/state level in California) all love their jobs. All of them have good hours, flex time, development opportunities and amazing retirement benefits. All are women. All have families. All have great social lives. All have great job security. I am jealous of all of them!!! They range from judges (she’s got the greatest job….) to a friend in contract law for the Arts for her major city government to friends who actually develop their jobs as they go… within government. They are all bright and motivated, and very well-balanced.
Go for it!
TBK
I agree that it’s time for you to start looking. You say you wouldn’t be interested in another firm, but I know when I was in biglaw I was pretty ignorant about what other firm options existed. You might find that a small or mid-sized firm would be a perfect fit. Most don’t have the same hours as large firms (although there are a handful that are insane — Boies Schiller comes to mind) and have compensation that’s less than biglaw but more than government. You might find that, while being a partner in biglaw is unappealing (and I agree — ugh, all the headache of being a business owner with almost none of the true autonomy), being a partner at a smaller fim might be.
Amy H.
+1
OP
Thanks everyone for the feedback so far. My firm has limited to no options for those who don’t want to be partner (exception is for someone with very specialized substantive knowledge in a specific practice area, which I don’t have). And although I’m a fifth year, I actually haven’t been at this firm for very long because I’m a lateral and also clerked for 2 years. I agree that letting me work 4 days is a sign they like me but this arrangement is also pretty common at my firm, so people should not read too much into it.
And I say that DC is not really a viable option because my husband’s career is in Boston, we have small children, and I cannot see myself moving to DC and trying to make a LDR work with small infants. However, I agree that I should explore gov’t opportunities in Boston further.
NYC
Why don’t you look at the civil division of the US Attorney’s office in Boston? Could be perfect. (Although in general hours aren’t that much better as an AUSA).
Carrie Preston
I think the recruiter is right if you want to stay in a law firm & transition to some place smaller than Biglaw. Most of my friends who left biglaw for smaller firms & made partner left b/n 2 & 5 years. If you want to go in-house, I think there’s a longer leash from the standpoint that more experience tends to be better in-house as you’re just expected to know your whole area and take on matters you know nothing about & more experience helps you do that capably. I think you’re at somewhat of a decisionpoint with respect to whether you stay or go but the answer will depend on what you want to do. If you want to be a partner somewhere outside of biglaw, I’d consider leaving now while you have time to establish a reputation at a smaller firm. If you want to go in-house, I think you can stay, but be mindful of how long a time the firm will be willing to have you stay so you don’t get caught in the asked-to-leave trap because you’re too senior.
Cornellian
Had an e-mail malfunction and found out my second year on the interviewer side of OCI is starting in ten minutes. Feel mysteriously rusty.
Any last minute tips??
Jacket for this dress?
Can anyone recommend a jacket for this dress? I am trying to grow this part of my brain, but putting things together is not my strength.
FWIW, I am like this with cooking (meal = entree; for decades, dinner = pasta) and trying to evolve past that, too.
Equity's Darling
You guys, there was a FROST WARNING for my area last night. AND, very early this morning on the way to the gym, there was crispy looking water (I refused to call it what it is…) on the windshields of some of the cars. This is officially the most disappointing summer I’ve had in years. Flooding, tons of rain, and frost warnings in the middle of August.
If this autumn isn’t fantastic or the winter isn’t mild, I swear…I’m going to defect to BC soon
AMB
We’re baking in the nations capital today, all summer through the ridiculous heat I’ve gazed longingly at the 20 degree weather in BC.
Godzilla
“Crispy looking water” =)
Nonny
ED, seriously, this is why I don’t live in your part of the country. Despite the frequent liquid sunshine we get here, we won’t get any crispy water for at least another three months. You need to move here. I’ll show you around and put you in touch with my recruitment peeps. :-)
viclawstudent
Based on the last couple years, we’ll barely have any crispy water at all … I can’t remember the last time I had to scrape the windshield on my car.
Nonny
viclawstudent – I’ve been thinking of you. Have you been involved in articling interviews the past couple of weeks? Just wondering how it’s going.
TCFKAG
You literally live in a land called the Great White North. Are you surprised? :-) Come to sunny New England – frost warnings don’t set in until at least September or October here. ;-)
Go to law school or Shanghai?
My husband and I are both in our early 30’s, no children yet, and were both just offered expat packages to move to Shanghai (same employer so I would continue working as well). I don’t know all the details yet but I understand that expat packages are pretty rare these days and they usually give you a bump in pay, housing allowance, car and driver, home cleaning service, and first class tickets to come back come to visit. It would no doubt be a great opportunity personally and professionally but this opportunity has come just as I have been putting in applications to go to law school here in the USA. The assignment would be for 3 years so I am concerned that if I put law school off until we return it will be harder to go as there may be children in the picture by then not to mention that will put me another 3 years further into my current career which I am not very happy with. I’ve been looking at transitioning to law for a few years now and until this opportunity came up, now seemed like the best time to make that change.
The opportunity is excellent for my husband and will really help to get him where he wants to go professionally. We can turn the opportunity down but of course we may not have this offered again. I also understand that it is near impossible to get legal training in a foreign country and come back to the US to practice without getting an LLM – which is very expensive. I wasn’t able to find any American law schools in Shanghai either. My legal interest is in policy/trade/compliance so maybe there is a way to use this opportunity to my advantage – I just got these news so I haven’t thought through all the possibilities yet.
Maybe those with experience can give me some insight on what to consider when making this decision? I am totally overwhelmed – I never thought I could possibly be living in China!
Nero
I would totally go to China. What are the career opportunities for you? That kind of experience is unique; JDs are a dime a dozen, these days.
Equity's Darling
I would definitely definitely go to China, and have babies/do law school upon my return. What a fantastic opportunity, and if you’re into trade/policy/compliance, working in China could result in some really valuable contacts and experience.
Anonymous
Don’t go to law school. Go to China and use the time to figure out another degree to get when you return if you still have that itch to scratch.
Law school is STUPID. ;)
mascot
I’d go to China. Once in a life-time experience and gives the legal job market some more time to recover. Assuming you went to law school next fall, would you want to start having kids while in school or wait until after you graduated and been working a few years? Law school may be a good time to have small kids as your schedule is pretty flexible.
Anonymous
As a young lawyer, my advice is GO. Honestly law school is a reallyyyy bad choice for most people right now. If you still want to go when you get back you will be more marketable and desirable based on your time in China. Definitely go.
Famouscait
I can’t comment on the law school aspect, but my husband and I lived in Mexico on an expat package and it was a great decision. Great in terms finances and lifestyle (for all the reasons you’ve mentioned); great opportunities for us to travel as a couple (also w/o kids) and learn a new culture and language. And I made some wonderful friends. The ramifications for us both personally and professionally outweigh any negatives I can think of. Which is not to say that there aren’t challenges to being and expat – there are. But I hope you go for it!
Veronique
I would go in a heartbeat. Shanghai is a great city (though Hong Kong is my real love). You can always go to law school when you get back. A bunch of my law school classmates were in their (mostly early to mid) 30’s when they started. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t hindered their careers at all.
Plus, if you’re considering having kids (not that I’m pressuring you!), this could be a great time to start. I have no idea what maternity leave is like in China, but it’s probably better than the US (since most places are)! Also, you should look into summer programs like this one (http://law.sjtu.edu.cn/International/Article120401.aspx) which could provide you with a “law school light” experience and also look good on your resume/applications. Good luck!
Go to law school or Shanghai?
Thanks for this! A lot of people have mentioned to me that starting a family in Shanghai is a good idea because my current employer gives generous maternity leave and flex time. Also, the package includes housing, cleaning service, and a car with a driver so that would definitely be more convenient with having a baby.
Anon
Usually expats get 16 wks maternity leave in Singapore. Not sure about China. Most Asian countries offer 12-16 wks paid.
Bewitched
Agree with the advice that you could go to law school on your return-with or without children. One of the top graduates in my class (years ago) had very small children at home and commuted one hour each way to classes. I don’t know how she did it, but she did!
Go to law school or Shanghai?
Thanks all for your insights!! I am concerned that by the time I return I’ll be in my mid-30’s and I’ll have even more time invested in my current career and the cost of leaving to go to law school will be too high and I just won’t ever go.
I’ll be working in Shanghai too but I will be in a new role that is a step up from my current gig. I don’t enjoy the work much but I don’t know is that is a good enough reason to pass up on a great opportunity. Also, I’m hoping that I can use this time to make me more competitive for jobs after law school. Can anyone weigh in on this from a hiring perspective from a firm or in-house?
Has anyone else done this? A tiny part of me is afraid of having a baby in China without knowing the language and not having any support system, too.
A
Are you dead set on law school eventually? It is such a morass and you will be starting out at square 1 no matter how much great experience you have before. I say go! Enjoy! And if you don’t end up going to law school all the better.
Anon
I grew up in a household like this (expat), but in a much less developed country. Americans (and non-American expats) had lots of babies there. And it was awesome and I wouldn’t have traded the experience for anything.
Famouscait
To your point: “A tiny part of me is afraid of having a baby in China without knowing the language and not having any support system, too.”
If you connect with the local expat community you will likely have as much of a support system as you desire. Due to cultural norms and personal preferences, many expats stay pretty solidly within the English-speaking expat community, so everyone is seeking friends.
Several women had babies in Mexico while I was there as an expat, and the general consensus was that maternity care was as good or better than in the U.S. You’ll likely have top of the line medical insurance and coverage, so that helps. Many professionals at that level (doctors, some nurses) were fluent in English as well because of professional training or socioeconomic status.
The fringe benefits (domestic help, etc.) are also well suited for starting a family. Had we stayed in Mexico for the amount of time we were originally scheduled (boo, recession) we would have expedited our baby-making to have had kids there. A dear friend of mine had twins while there, and employed a night nurse, in addition to the regular daytime help. Ahhh the joys of expat living!
Manager by Day, Mom at Night
+1. I grew up in an expat household and lived in several SE Asian cities. The domestic help available to help with kids and top-notch medical support and staff are amazing. Totally go to China – you won’t regret the decision and can always come back to do your law degree (either full time or part time) if you find that your heart is still set on it. The “unknown” opportunity has always proved to be the more meaningful experience for me, IMHO.
s-non
Specifically in China, I would ONLY worry about food safety concerns if having a baby, but that is something I am sure your company would take care of for you / the expat community there already has a good handle on!
ss
Best to get your answers from folks w recent IRL experience. On recruitment prospects, it would be ideal to reach out to the predecessors in the job you’ll be heading to – where are they now and how did their time in China feature when they were looking for their next roles ? Did they have to look externally or did your existing employer have good opportunities for returning staff ?
On child-raising, ask your likely colleagues about their resources on the ground. The experience of starry-eyed Internet strangers in low-cost locations like Mexico or who grew up a generation ago are neither here nor there in relation to what you’ll find, and Shanghai really has changed a tonne, even in the last 10 years. It is eminently do-able but you’ll be far more comfortable hearing from real-life folks as you make this decision.
ss
It may be over-simplistic to assume it’s a given that moving to China is a great thing professionally (you know best about personally). You may want to think this through the way you would any other professional opportunity – what are the skills you’d acquire ? What will you contribute and how much of this relies on your ability to adjust for communication/ language/ cultural issues/ absence of a familiar network ? What are the opportunities which open up in 3 years ? Where are your predecessors in the same role now and can you see yourself in the same path ?
Not to rain on your parade, I’ve seen the appetite for expats in China wax and wane over a few cycles now but for many global employers, the direction has typically been towards decreasing generosity, increasingly reserved only for a handful of senior and/ or specialist employees. Most folks I know who’ve been through this particular wringer would suggest a clear-eyed think about where you’d stand professionally after your posting, or even mid-way through, if the terms change.
Godzilla
CHINA CHINA CHINA
Nonny
I haven’t even read your entire post, but based on the question itself: SHANGHAI. I mean, really. Law school vs. China? Pssshht. I’d take China any day. (And I am totally jealous that it is an option for you!)
Blonde Lawyer
Part of a relationship is that sometimes we have to make sacrifices in our careers for the other person. Sometimes what is difficult is figuring out which one should be making the sacrifice. Many relationships today take turns. In your circumstance I think your husband’s opportunity (which is currently certain) should take precedence over your potential post-law school career. The legal market sucks. Many people realize once they start law school that it isn’t for them and quit. I love being a lawyer but I know many people who don’t.
My husband was an ex-pat kid in SE Asia and LOVED it. I told him your scenario last time you posted and he looked at me like I had five heads and said “THEY SHOULD GO!!” with this “duh” look. When else in your life will you be able to fly first class/business on the company dime? Even if it turns out you hate it, it is three years of your life.
Many people my husband meets are impressed that he was an ex-pat kid. I’m sure they would be even more impressed if he had actually worked over seas. I really think you should go. My only hesitation would be if you had commitments here that would hurt someone else to break – like you care for an elderly parent or you have pets you couldn’t take with you and can’t bear to rehome. If you are free and clear – GOOOOOOOOO.
Blonde Lawyer
I also want to add, particularly where you are not being asked to be a tag-a-long wife but are also being offered a promotion with your own package!
NYC
I agree with everyone that you should go! If law really is your calling, it will be here when you get back. I think employers will find your story compelling, since presumably the experience you had up until then really informed your decision. My mom went to law school in her 30s. Took the bar when she was 36, I think, post 2 kids, and spent a wonderful 15 years in private practice.
Kanye East
Shanghai is amazingly amazing. Go.
Coach Laura
To Shanghai – my $0.02 advice:
Go to China
Save as much money as you can while there
Start your family while there (after you get adjusted and if you feel you’re ready)
Return to the US, apply for law school and go to law school (if you’ve saved enough this should work fine) and have child(ren) while in law school if you wish.
If you don’t already have a Master’s degree, while in China you could find a high-quality on-line degree program (in policy, trade or compliance related) that could benefit you when you return whether or not you end up going to law school. If you do this, you might have the psychological benefit of feeling that you are making progress toward an eventual career. You might even find that you can achieve your career without law school should you choose not to enroll.
Good luck!
Shanghai
I just want to chime in with one more refrain of TAKE THE OFFER and GO TO CHINA!!! It will be an amazing experience. My first visit to Shanghai was to visit family in 1979 (I was a baby). 35 years ago there were no cars in Shanghai and everyone wore a blue Mao suit. My grandfather’s sister married into a family that lived in one of the (now) historic homes in Pu Dong and is now surrounded by high rises. China is a fascinating place. You won’t regret it.
Anon
Shanghai is fabulous. And expat packages these days are a rarity. Take it!
Counter
I know that conventional wisdom says not to take the counter offer. Has anyone taken the counter and had things work out well? They’re offering me a lot more money, 30K more than the offer, and have said that other changes I’m looking for will be made.
ss
I’ve been the party making the counter-offer a couple of times, where they’ve been accepted and things worked out fine (one of these staff subsequently left with the rest of us when we moved as a team). I’ve only ever made counter offers for staff whom I’ve been keen to keep and for whom there were no negative ‘push’ factors at their current job, just the ‘pull’ of a hot job market and aggressive competitors.
If you reckon this is you and your current employer, I think the chances for things to go well are good. Certainly the size of the increment over the other offer sounds like the first part is true (ie. your employer has figured out you’re a keeper).
Anonymous
Yes. I’m in big law and was going to lateral for geographical reasons. My firm countered and I accepted. Over a year later, my hours and reviews are great and I have no regrets about staying.
michelle
the key to a successful counteroffer is whether or not it addresses the reasons you wanted to make a change in the first place. Money is money and the new salary will be your new normal within a few pay cycles, but if whatever frustrated you isn’t fixed it will still be there and you’ll still not be happy. So… if it’s a money thing and the rest of the job is great, then sure, take the counter. If there are other issues causing you to want to leave (upward mobility, reporting relationships, scope of responsibility) and those are unchanged, I would recommend against it. So it all depends in my opinion on why you wanted to make the move, and which position best meets your needs.
Mountain Girl
I know there are several others here that are converting their shoe wardrobe to flats. I rec’d this pair of shoes on Monday at work and have worn them exclusively since I opened the box. The black cherry patent is surprisingly neutral and my feet and exceedingly happy. I have rec’d quite a number of unsolicited compliments and would highly recommend these shoes.
http://tinyurl.com/DanskoFlat
Matilda
Oooo, shiny! Those are awesome. Now I must stalk them until they go on sale, because I’m on a spending moratorium until my house closing….
Hollis
I like Danskos and I have problem feet, so these are promising, but do any of you ‘rettes think that the style is too much like the mary janes we wore as little girls? Do the red ones seem more “grown-up” than the black ones?
Parfait
I love mary janes and I don’t want to be wrong about that.
Mountain Girl
Threadjack: Is it annoying to you when others have candles or warmers in their offices? Would a coffee scented candle be less annoying than a citrus candle?
Meep
It wouldn’t be annoying but,IMO, would come accross as unprofessional.
Veronique
I wouldn’t do it, since so many people have scent allergies. Plus, tastes vary so much that there is a good chance that whatever scent you pick would be unpleasant to at least some of your coworkers.
Anonymous
Scents in the office are OK as long as they’re strictly contained to your space and are really light within your space. I have a reed diffuser in my office and you absolutely cannot smell it from the hallway, even if you’re standing right outside my door. I put the diffuser as far away from the door as possible and only put 1-2 reeds in. It makes my office smell more fresh than the rest of the floor, which smells faintly of old yucky carpet and, in the winter, burning dust.
Anne Shirley
No candles in the office. They’re annoying and unprofessional.
Senior Attorney Baby Gift
+1
Godzilla
Word. There is no such thing as an inoffensive scent.
LeeB
Agreed
Eleanor
I think any scent is going to annoy someone. If you’re allowed to have candles in your office, why not just get an unscented candle?
Houda
I work in an open space with just hotspots and few desks (no walls).
The mixture of scents would be overpowering.
Nellie
No scents in the office, I think. Personally I find coffee/vanilla/food scents to the absolute worst offenders because they smell so fake.
Anon
Do you work in a spa? Hair salon? Anthropologie?
If no, then no candles at work.
SoCalAtty
As long as the scent isn’t overpowering, I’ve always been ok with it. I always had one of those bamboo stick infusers in a “netural” or non-scent scent just to absorb odors wafting in from the kitchen, or for when I would eat lunch at my desk. Instead of putting all of the sticks provided in the oil, I only put 2 and could flip them over if I needed to.
In the Pink
Many buildings have a no-candle clause in their leases. Any safety professional would say noooooo way. Professional or not, it’s a hazard. Save it to enjoy at home as you will.
Anonymous
Scents are very annoying. Please don’t do it.
Mountain Girl
And one more: Is a pointelle sweater acceptable in winter? More specifically is this navy sweater okay for winter? http://tinyurl.com/m3yjd95
Veronique
I think it would be fine for work, where the internal temperature is pretty consistent. It might be odd for casual wear unless you live somewhere that stays pretty warm in the winter. With that said, I have a similar black sweater (open stitching, but different pattern) that I wear almost exclusively in the fall/winter.
Parfait
As long as you’re warm enough! Don’t catch your death.
Senior Attorney Baby Gift
I’m going to a birthday party for a one-year-old girl this weekend and wonder whether any of you have any fabulous ideas for a gift. This little one has a ginormous wardrobe already, and I hate to contribute to the mountain of plastic toys, but I haven’t been around babies much lately so I don’t really know what alternatives are out there these days. I’d like to spend maybe $20-30 but would go higher for something awesome.
Ideas?
Equity's Darling
Bath toys?
I also do lots of board books, so baby can flip through on their own if they want and not tear out pages.
mascot
Books are always awesome. Especially books with pop-ups, squeaky parts, touch and feel, etc. My child also loves the B line of toys from Target, especially that howler dog guitar. Bonus taht it has volume control and the music isn’t annoying.
CKB
+1 My boys always loved the board books with flaps & moving parts, but the practical side of me always hated shelling out the extra money for these books with extras when I knew they would eventually get wrecked through much loving, so I really appreciated it when people gave us these types of books.
Senior Attorney Baby Gift
This is a great idea. I’ll go look for something like that!
Bewitched
Savings bond? I know it’s boring and perhaps not really a gift, but if she’s one, she won’t notice. My son is 19 now and is putting all those $50 bonds ($25 cost) to good use as he heads into his second year of college! As a parent, I was always thrilled to get one or two bonds, especially if there are lots of party attendees-does any kid really need 15 presents???
Jennifer
I love this idea. As a parent to two little kids, I get overwhelmed by stuff. I’d rather receive a savings bond or charitable donation in the child’s name (Heifer Int’l or some such).
Brant
My parents do this for all the wee ones. My grandparents did it for me–and when I went to college, I had 5k worth of savings bonds to use as book/spending money. It was awesome.
Nonny
Yes. My parents did this for me and those bonds were so useful later on. I would be thrilled if someone gave me bonds for my baby.
Brooklyn Paralegal
+1
I have about 4k in savings bonds that I will be using to help pay for my wedding.
Senior Attorney Baby Gift
That was my initial impulse, but these parents are really into presents! LOL Also, when my son was little I had a hard time keeping track of the savings bonds and I worry about other people losing them, too! (I know — projecting much?)
rosie
Music? Check out Putumayo “playground” collections (can find on Amazon). We just gave one of the world playground collections to a friend’s 1-year-old, and I was glad not to be contributing to the pile of plastic that accumulated at the birthday party.
Seventh Sister
Beeswax crayons and a pad of paper? Not as messy as paint, but keeps them busy for a while. We have zillions of toys, and books, but I never mind when the kids are gifted a new book. The Mo Willems ones are especially lovely.
Diana Barry
I always get a bunch of Busy Books from Amazon – Rebecca Finn I think. The babies love to pull the tabs etc. – we are on our second Busy Railway book because the kids loved the first one so much.
Samantha
Check out Rockabye dot com – saw it on zulily today for 50% off and they have adorable rockers.
That said, I’m generally in favor of a savings bond or donation instead of more stuff.
Brant
I got puppets for the last 1-year old b’day party. Fun for me, fun for mom and dad, and way fun for the baby. Plus, puppets are fun for a whole bunch of years.
Cornellian
I know I’m sleep deprived because I was wondering if you were joking about giving a litter of baby dogs to a child.
I am a banana.
Zoo membership. Gives the parents something to do and in a few months the one year old will be old enough to enjoy it.
In the Pink
This!
If you need to bring something, get a zoo like stuffy for the kidlet.
I used to adopt animals for kids as gifts and always accompanied it with a small animal. Admittedly, that was during the “beanie baby” craze….
If no zoo, maybe a children’s museum or Gymboree kind of place (indoor winter fun site?) and a pair of great tennis shoes?
Hollis Doyle
My toddler got several wooden puzzles for her birthday and loved them. She got the ones with only a few pieces that had the big knobs on them. Melissa and Doug have really cutes ones. I particuarly like this one because she can learn her colors/shapes while putting the pieces in:
http://tinyurl.com/n7kltr9
Senior Attorney Baby Gift
Wow! Thanks so much for all the great ideas! I’m printing out this thread for the next time I need baby gift ideas!
Brooklyn Paralegal
I spent way too much money online shopping last night, but I ordered a great (non-work) leather jacket, olive green pants, a blouse with a scalloped collar, beautiful shoes, comfy sweaters… Now I just need it to be fall already!
(Because honestly, if it stays this warm out, I’m going to cave into my temptation to order clothes from Kate Spade Saturday, which are almost all summery, and which I totally do not need to spend even more money on.)
Susie
I hear you! I received some clothes yesterday and was all excited to wear a new outfit today until I realized how very fall-appropriate everything was.
Brooklyn Paralegal
I know! During the NAS I got The Skirt in plum and a beautiful dark green, and they’ll look amazing with black wool tights and my heels, but I tried wearing stockings this morning and was sweltering. (It’s like, 92 degrees in NYC today. Ugh.)
Susie
I got the plum and camel, and am kind of regretting not getting the green so now I’m just waiting for it to go on sale.
Brooklyn Paralegal
Is the sizing weird for you at all? I wound up finding that the size 0 petite fit me, but I’m 5’6″ and usually petite sizes are WAY too small on me, but the 0 regular was HUGE on me.
Susie
I’m 5’2″ and got 2P, my usual for Halogen. It hits me about mid-knee, could be a bit more nipped at the waist but is a pretty good fit on the hips. On the description it says petite is true to size, while for regular notes order down if between sizes so there must be some difference.
KM
Following up from the weekend open thread. Ladies, much thanks for the blazer suggestions to pair with my ivory and camel dress! It inspired me to take a look at my closet and I re-discovered an aqua blazer that looks great with the dress. I’m very excited that all of your suggestions helped me to start wearing two often forgotten pieces of clothing!
Brooklyn Paralegal
That sounds really cute! I think someone suggested a navy blazer on the weekend open thread and mentioned a Zara ponte one? Either way, I have a navy Zara blazer that I wear ALL the time, so I highly recommend it if you wind up wanting to transition into fall with the ivory and camel dress. It’s sharp looking, but very comfortable. Perfect for the early days of fall when you don’t quite need a coat but want a long sleeve.
anon
I am trying to justify buying a KitchenAid mixer. What are some great things the ‘rettes make with it?
Jennifer
Bread. Chiffon cakes (I have a second bowl, so I use one for the cake batter, one for whipping egg whites). Cookie dough, especially stiff dough. Fresh pasta. But mostly bread. I can knock out two loves of whole wheat on one weekend morning, and I’m good to go.
KS IT Chick
I use it for anything that requires more than about a minute or two of mixing, including meat loaf. Any baking is so much easier, even with having a bread machine on the counter next to it. I used it to turn out the cookie part of whoopie pies for work in about 10 minutes one day after getting home from work. (By the by … Did you know that olive oil mayonaise is a reasonable substitute if you’re out of eggs?)
I also have the meat grinder attachment and the ice cream maker. The former lets me make the fat percentage I prefer for ground turkey & chicken. The latter, I haven’t been as happy with (I can get the ice cream to freeze as hard as I’d like), but it does make some really amazing sorbets. One of the best was mango/yellow curry!
anon
I am trying to justify buying a KitchenAid mixer. What are some great things the r e t t e s make with it?
Cynthia
This is super odd, but I really like mine to shred chicken in. I bake the chicken first, then throw it in the bowl and it shreds it really well within about a minute.
Anon
Any thoughts on Cocoa Beach, Florida in February with children? We will be in Orlando for a family event and wanted to extend our stay and visit the ocean. This seems to be the closest beach. Will the water be freezing? Any must see/eat/stay recs?
WarEagle
It will be too cold (50ish) in February. The coasts tend to be much cooler than the interior of the state. Melbourne has a cute downtown. The Kennedy Space Flight Museum is right there. There’s also St. Augustine which has a little history and a lot of tourist trappy things (ghost tours, etc).
Belle de Ville
Another work dress that is 2 inches above the knee, this is so unflattering and impractical.
Almost all of the high end designer dresses ($1000+) at Nieman’s and Sak’s hit at the knee.
Does this make shorter dresses a class signifier?
Just asking the question.
Godzilla
Seriously?
Anon
Who wears $1000+ dresses to work? I think the implication is that if you’re paying that much for a dress, you’re probably having it tailored – possibly even hemmed to above the knee. Shocking.
HSAL
Yes, two inches above the knee. On that particular model. Get over it.
Parfait
Models are tall, yo.
Shoes
Hi ladies, any tips on cleaning the inside of your pumps/heels? Warm water and a wash cloth? I use the silver linings pads and I also occasionally have foot powder that I put in my shoe but I think the food powder might build up a residue and also just general sweat/dirt seems to be lining the inside of my shoes (sorry, I know that’s kind of gross). TIA for any home remedy shoe cleaning ideas you have!