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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Rocker Pants

Blue Tailored Pants for Work: Anne Klein Rocker PantsOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Once upon a time, I had a ton of Anne Klein stuff in my closet — particularly pants. I haven't tried them in a while, but this affordable pair of trousers is making me want to — this shade of blue is perfect to pair with neutrals (especially black). The pants were $79 but are now marked to $27 at 6pm, sizes 4-16. (Amazon has what appear to be the same pants in black, “poppy,” and (in size 2 only) “drake” for $37-$79.) Anne Klein Rocker Pants Here's a plus-size option in blue. Ladies, which are your favorite pants for work? Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

196 Comments

  1. Reposted from yesterday

    I’m based in Bath for college (until the end of June) – email me on tinea @ Hotmail . Co . UK if you’d like any recommendations or information or so on.

    I personally found Stratford really touristy but I think it would be nice if you found a luxurious spa type hotel as a base. Check what’s on at the theatre. (Likewise check out the Royal Opera House listings in London, it’s my favourite place in the world).

    Windsor is nice, but go midweek if you can because it gets really busy on weekends. Although it’s close to London I don’t think there’s a direct train (I could be wrong) so it may be a little more faff than you want.

    In the other direction Canterbury is nice and has tons of history too.

    1. I spend a semester in college in Canterbury and would absolutely recommend it. The cathedral is stunning, and the city center is lovely, with lots of little shops and restaurants to wander around. And it’s very accessible to and from London.

  2. Hi everyone. I found out that I will need to have bunion surgery around the end of the year. I will be non-weight bearing for 6-8 weeks. Anyone have any experiences with this type of surgery and tips for getting around during recovery? I am considering a knee scooter and will have my mom and DH to help me.

    1. Definitely rent a knee scooter! I had great service from goodbyecrutches(dot)com. And two tips not mentioned in my pre-op instructions — get a bench that fits in the tub or shower and a hand-held shower head, as bathing was tricky, AND figure out how to stand up from the toilet using only one leg.

    2. Since you have so much lead time, if you aren’t already setup to do so, can you talk to your office about making sure you are setup to work from home as much as possible during the time after you are cleared to go back to work?

      Also, talk to you doctors about whether they are giving you a “best case scenario” or a real typical, average scenario, and how limited you will be after those 6-8 weeks. I doubt it’s going to be a situation of “non-weight bearing for 6-8 weeks and then right back to 100% normal after that” but that tends to get glossed over in situations like this, I’ve found.

      Also worth discussing how much of that time you can expect to be on heavy painkillers and therefore not able to work – I’ve dealt with coworkers who severely underestimated how long they would be out of the office because even though they were technically cleared to work after procedures like foot or knee surgery, they were unable to get anything high level done (or anything at all done) on the level of painkillers they were still on.

      1. Thanks. I’m going to plan between 6-8 weeks of short term disability. I can work from home very easily, but I don’t want to push it because of pain, etc. I may “return” to work by working from home for additional time.

        1. Will your doctor sign off that you need 6-8 weeks STD? I think you need to be clear with your doctor whether he will be filling out the paperwork as “unable to work” or “ok to work with restrictions”. I have seen co-workers caught in insurance and HR paperwork hell because the doctor cleared them as “ok with restrictions” so the STD didn’t want to pay, but the company couldn’t accommodate the restrictions so the employee couldn’t come back to work either.

        2. My mom had one bunion surgery last year and will have the other this year. She was on the big painkillers for probably 4-5 days max. And she had one of the more invasive/difficult surgeries. She was also non-weight bearing for 8 weeks or so, but if she were still working (she’s retired) could have definitely returned to working within about 2 weeks. Maybe not “to work” but certainly to a working from home situation. 6-8 weeks disability seems unlikely to be necessary unless you have a major complication.

    3. My mom just had this surgery and she was able to walk out of the hospital. The important thing was “toes above your nose” for at least 2 weeks. She could walk around the house to go to the bathroom or go between rooms but not much else.

      She was in a boot for a couple of weeks. She wasn’t supposed to shower at all to keep the bandage dry but couldn’t take it after a couple of weeks. I had a cast cover from showering with a PICC line, and she was able to put that over her foot to shower and keep the bandage dry.

      She had a pretty good experience over all, not a ton of pain.

      1. There are many varieties of the surgery – some you can actually walk away from, others require no weight on it at all for many weeks. My 20 year old niece had it last year (and truly had to be off it for 8 weeks). I had bunion surgery as well and while I was told I could put weight on it from day 1, it was nearly three weeks before that was realistic at all. I would have gotten no use from a knee scooter at all – had so much pain the first two weeks that I basically didn’t leave the house until I was walking on it again, at nearly four week post-op. For me, the biggest thing was having help at home the first few days since I couldn’t even get to the bathroom on my own at that point. Also plan the you’ll have to sleep on your back exclusively. I felt that doctor’s expectations were very different than reality. After 8 weeks I was supposed to transition to a supportive shoe like a sneaker, but I could only put one one for an hour or so at a time the first week. Depending on the specifics of your surgery and how you react to pain meds, do plan on being out of work for quite a while. And plan on being in sneakers or orthopedic shoes for a while after that.

    4. Do you have an office chair on wheels? I found it helpful when recovering from a broken leg.

    5. Everyone’s experience differs, but I had this surgery on both of my feet when I was about 30 (so arguably faster heal time?). For each foot, I walked out of the surgical center (with a cane and help from my mother) and took a cab home. I was on tylenol with codeine for the first two days, with maybe one more pill on the third. The pain was manageable but I think I have a pretty good tolerance for pain — just stay ahead of it by staying on schedule with the meds. And keep the foot as elevated as you can for as long as you can! That’s key.

      I was couch-bound for about two weeks, but after the first three days could use a boot rather than crutches — the real thing was swelling and keeping it elevated. Once I was past the three day drug window, I was actually bored out of my mind and wanted to work as much as I could from the couch — I was lucky to have a doc review at the time I could get some hours for. So it’s good if you have the option to work (esp if you have a billable hours type job) but don’t necessarily have to in case you’re in more pain that I was.

      I went back to work after two weeks, but it was very hard to commute in and out in NYC (I was sort of too cheap to take $40 cabs each way but I did some days). Also hard to not have my foot elevated all day long so I would put it on a box or another chair while at the office–not ideal at all but it helped. If I could have, I would have loved another week or two of working at home but that didn’t feel plausible in Big Law.

      About a month out, I was walking pretty easily without a cane– but stayed in sneakers for a few more weeks and definitely had a bit of a limp and had to keep it elevated. More of a pain than anything else. 8 weeks out, I was pretty much back to normal. I wish I had been offered/had seen a scooter at the time–I think that would have been great!

    6. For those of you who had it, were you happy after? Was it worth it? Do you only wear flats now? My bunion hurts so I threw away all my heels so I wouldn’t be tempted but it still hurts sometimes in flats and I am sure it affects my back because of the way I walk. What about cosmetics? Are you willing to wear sandals that show your feet now?

      1. Definitely worth it! I wear mostly flats and low wedges now, but sandals are fine. The scar faded pretty quickly. And it’s wonderful to be able to walk a lot without pain.

    7. I had ankle surgery that required absolutely no weightbearing for 6-8 weeks. Here are my suggestions:

      1) I HIGHLY recommend a knee scooter. Do they look stupid? Yup. Do they make getting around enormously easier? Yes.

      2) Also, apply for a temporary handicapped car permit now (they take several weeks to process).

      3) Get a shower bench. Get one with handles. Trust me. It’s much easier to crutch into the shower and sit on the bench rather than trying to get up from the ground on one foot if you were planning on bathing in a tub. On a related note, if you cant get your foot wet for awhile (not sure if this is the case for bunion surgery), get a hand-held shower-head (they sell them relatively cheap at Bed Bath & Beyond or online).

      4) Prop your foot WAY up on pillows or something, but don’t lie down with you head all the way down flat just to have your foot higher than your chest/nose/whatever the conventional wisdom is. I did this and after about a week, I got a really bad case of vertigo and ended up in the ER. Just keep your head propped up if you’re on bedrest. Trust me.

      1. Oh and also, I brought a pillow everywhere with me so I could prop my foot up comfortably. I just stuffed it into the little basket on the front of my knee scooter.

    8. I was non-weight bearing for 8 weeks last spring (broken foot). My recommendations:
      Absolutely YES on the knee scooter. Saved my life. Crutches were uncomfortable, exhausting, and impractical. A scooter will allow you to stand at the kitchen counter, cook, wash dishes, stand in the bathroom, do your hair, carry things, and have a semi-normal life. I even rolled the scooter right up to the toilet and used it to stabilize myself getting on/off the toilet.
      Stash your small rugs and put away clutter before the surgery.
      Yes on the shower bench and hand-held shower. You can easily install the hand-held shower by yourself in a few minutes.
      Buy a plastic cast protector for showering. I think mine was about $20. One of those little things that made life easier.
      Good luck with the surgery!

  3. I am approaching my push for partner over the next couple of years and trying to decide whether I want to do it. Am Law 100 firm. Those of you who have done it, why did you want it? Was it just to check a box and say you’ve done it? I get that feeling. I think that might be why I want it. Is there something else?

    1. I’ve heard several people say they wanted to make it to prove to the world they COULD do it / have the feeling that no one could take that away from them. Not the greatest reason IMO, but a reason.

      I was in your position recently and decided to go in-house rather than make the push. Although I liked my firm and the way partners are compensated (not just eat what you kill), I had to do some soul searching about Life and What I Want Out Of It… and realized that (a) I enjoyed being a respected senior associate, but would decidedly NOT enjoy suddenly competing with my former senior-partner mentors for business, and therefore being dumped on with all the clients who are difficult to collect from/ always have emergencies/ etc, and (b) I missed having breathing room in my life to enjoy evenings / weekends / vacations / occasional slow periods at work without stressing over my hours!, and (c) my pride wanted to make partner more than my actual life goals did.

      1. You are competing for business no matter what. If you aren’t competing with people at your firm who are senior, your rate will have you competing with ones who are junior sooner or later. But ultimately you are competing for good work and the right age/stage with every other lawyer out there. Law firms need to have a good-to-great pipeline to keep senior associates fed while feeding everyone else.

      2. Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s, and these pant’s are cute. I love Anne Klein, too! YAY Kat and Kate for highlighting them. I will show Rosa.

        As for the OP’s I also agree with Cat. I think that it is a big thing to become a partner at a law firm. I know that I could NEVER be a partner at a BIG firm; that is why I stuck close to what I knew and did the best I could do with the manageing partner at our small boutique firm, soaking EVERYTHING I could up about WC law and TORT law and PI law, knowing that I would do MOSTLEY WC law. I also learned to cozy up to the court wherever possibel so that my winning percentage would be higher then if I did NOT.

        Dad told me life is all about stasticsics; and the greater win rate you have, the more sucessful you will become. I finaly got to be a partner, and now I am the firm’s main RAINMAKER. This is alway’s goeing to be an issue for women in the hive. We HAVE to be abel to produce or the men will NEVER take us serious.

        There is an articel on the ABA blog today about women leaveing BIG LAW–we can NOT have it both ways. Law is a BUSNESS, and in BUSNESS, you MUST work your tuchus off if you are to be a sucess like we are. YAY!!!!

    2. There is a lot of arbitrariness about having the title and not a lot of real difference between the value you bring right before / after. We have seen a bunch of groups where the just-made-partner partners were allowed to continue as partners at new firms when groups leave en masse but the people on the cusp were doomed to a few more laps for what seemed to be no good reason / politics / no one much caring except for the people at the top. It is an artibrary and stupid distinction (a great 8th year may bring much more value to the table than some junior partners, perhaps most) but one that probably makes 6-figures of differnce in your life in a very short amount of time. I’ve just seen too many people get stuck, so you want to get over the bar. You’ve made it this far.

      It’s like quitting basic training on the last day: don’t do that. Walk away for something better, but don’t walk away for less.

    3. I’m in the same boat, with all the same questions. I do genuinely like my firm, most of the people I work with, and think overall its a fairly doable lifestyle for me (even including the push for partner phase.) I think a big part of me wants to make it just to prove I can (both to myself and the world). I think even if I made it my plan wouldn’t be to stay a partner for more than 5 years unless it was vastly better than I anticipate it being. (Junior partners work incredible hours from what I see, much worse than the push for partner phase). I also think my exit options in DC would be a lot better leaving as a partner than a senior associate.

      On the flip side, I just watched someone kill themselves for 3 years during which time their partner had 2 children and they didn’t make it. They threw that person a bone and made them counsel (unusual at my pretty strictly up or out firm after 8 years). It was devastating. I don’t know if I could survive that happening to me. So, that makes me think I should start looking to leave now and wait until I find something that is as good as my current job. I’ve done a ton of soul searching already and I still have no good answers for myself.

      1. Yup, exactly. That’s the worst case scenario: making the push and not making it and missing out on life for three years.

    4. I’m pondering the same question – probably about 2 years away so would need to start the real push now. I bill around 2100-2200 hours most years, and at my firm the expectation if you’re pushing for partner is to be more in the range of 2600-2700. I just don’t know if I have it in me. Also, my firm is terrible, TERRIBLE, for women. I’ve been there 5 years and not one woman has been made partner in my office which is the HQ. Only one woman has been made partner firmwide during those 5 years. All the female senior associates quit. So. Depressing. Especially since I otherwise like this firm – it’s got good work, nice colleagues, good flexibility.

      Can anyone speak to the financials of making junior partner? (and specify if your firm has a non-equity tier) Does your firm offer a guaranteed base for the first few years? Is it less or more than what you earned as a senior associate + bonus. (As an 8th year my bonus was 100k last year – that’s hard to beat.).

      What about the financials of being made counsel. Was there any change in your salary? Any change in billing expectations? Any change in client management/relationship expectations?

      I have some expertise in a very niche area so I could see a counsel route for me where I didn’t have to bill a ton of hours and kill myself over mergers but instead could continue to develop my expertise and provide value to the firm in this area. But my pride still thinks I should try for partner.

      1. Anecdotally, I’ve heard some horror stories about failing firms making people “partner” on the eve of the firm’s collapse to spread around the loss. So, I’d definitely want an inside/clear view of the financials before committing, even at a “biglaw” firm. (I was around in the early 2000s when a lot of giant firms went under.

        Also, just food for thought. Go for partner if you really want to be a law firm partner. The works excites you and speaks to you, and it’s your thing. If it’s not, start looking for something else. The sacrifices to the rest of your life may not be worth it. I personally didn’t find it worth it, so I went in-house. For me, that career path has been really rewarding, interesting and far more than I ever thought it would be. I also feel like I have so many more options in where I can go if I wanted something new (to the business side, consulting, for example). If the path doesn’t appeal, I’d look for a new path.

      2. At my AmLaw top-10 firm, which is mostly an 8 years up or out system, counsel make around 300K a year, are expected to bill 2000 hours of which 200 can be pro bono I believe. I don’t know if they are eligible for bonuses but I would think they are.

        Partnership is single tier, junior partners start around 400k. The firm gives a loan for the partnership buy-in that is repaid out of your partner compensation. 400k is after paying whatever you owe in your first year, I believe. I don’t know exactly how it works but there is a salary component and a profit share component. The profit share component is black box but I have been led to believe it is some combination of: years as a partner, chargeable hours, service to the firm, and book of business with book of business and chargeable hours probably being most important). When you are brand new your profit share component is basically nothing (unless I guess you somehow have clients of your own as a brand new partner), so you are in effect a salaried partner. Over time your profit share component increases until for the rainmakers it vastly outweighs the salary component.

        1. See this is interesting since I now make 280k + bonus of perhaps $100k (that’s what I got last year) if I meet my hours. So the comp is almost the same as a junior partner (I’m a senior associate).

          2. These salaries shock me too, but probably not for the same reasons. I have a Masters in science, worked very hard in school and after, yet earn only a small fraction of what some of you people do.

            Why are scientists valued so much less than lawyers are? Obvious? Not to me. I would love to hear a reasonable explanation.

  4. I want to start utilizing my Amazon Subscribe and Save to help free up some time spent running errands. I feel like I could be using it more robustly to get to the 15% off threshold but am not sure what’s a good deal. Any recs?

    2. Deodorant, toilet paper, paper towels, lotion, and makeup are all things I’ve used it for.

    3. Dish soap, hand soap, toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, vitamins, lotion…. Someone here posted the idea of putting a toothbrush on a 3 month subscription to remember to switch it out, which is pretty nifty. I think there’s a way to do browse thru the eligible categories to see what else you could do. One note: it all gets sent in one big box and depending on where you live that may be a hassle to deal with, esp. if you have heavy items.

    6. I use it for laundry soap right now. I’ve also started ordering toilet paper by the case because I’m tired of having to go out and buy it *right now*, and dishwasher rinse aid, neither of my preferred items are S&S, so I just have it on a wishlist of household items.

      I’ve gone through the S&S list a few times to see if I can add more to get to 15%, but I’ve decided for me the S&S is more about the convenience of never running out of laundry detergent, not about the savings. Because honestly, an extra 10% off is under $2 for my order – I don’t need to spend more money on things I only kinda need or spend a lot of time going through Amazon looking for things I could S&S to hit the 15% mark.

      Things I wish I could have just show up on my doorstep but that aren’t currently on S&S in the brands I like (but maybe you could find your preferred brands there):
      -dish soap
      -rinse aid
      -toilet paper
      -giant bags of baking soda (for cleaning)
      -giant bottles of vinegar (for cleaning and laundry)
      -paper towels
      -tampons
      -dish sponges
      -toothpaste

      1. That’s kind of where I am. I don’t mind our monthly CostCo run to get some of the brands I like (giant containers of baking soda and vinegar are definitely in that list) but I found that the dog food we like is slightly cheaper through S&S so if I can get everything into the same quarterly order, I could stand to save some decent money. The downside being that I have brands I like and they aren’t necessarily available.

    7. Currently on my S&S list:

      Luna bars
      Nuts
      Laundry detergent
      Hand soap
      Hand lotion
      True Lemon water flavor
      Contact drops
      Batteries for our car key fobs that keep dying
      Cotton balls
      Deodorant for me and husband
      Dental floss

    8. Allergy medicine, filters for my cat’s water fountain (to remind me to change it), kitty litter, quinoa, paper products. I need to pay more attention to how often I go through other household goods, like dishwasher and laundry detergent, so I can subscribe instead of ordering when I run out (whoops).

    9. Water filters, if you use those. Switch it out as soon as the new one shows up.

  5. Really like these pants but I hate ordering from 6PM b/c I have to pay for returns.

    Question: I’m on a business trip and my not-quite 2-year-old Lo & Sons bag (either the OG or OMG, I forget) has definitely seen better days. It’s starting to fray at one of the bottom corners, it’s started to slump to the sides, and there are scratches on the nylon.

    I love this bag — it’s lightweight and the organizational features are awesome — but I don’t think it’s held up all that well (and I’m a car commuter, so not particularly hard on my equipment). Is that just the price I pay for a nylon bag? And what are your favorite alternatives/what should I consider next? Under $150 preferred but I could go to $200 for the right piece.

    1. I just ordered a nylon bag from Target because I figured it’s worth a try, and hey, it’s only NYLON. They have some decent options.

  6. Pants pants pants! I’m on a pants tear lately. BR’s spring pants lineup is inspired — I think the Sloan fabric is too casual for a business-wear office (or courthouse), although the pants are very cute, BUT I can’t get enough of the Avery and Logan fits. The Avery is “straight cut” but fits my tall, curvy frame beautifully. I opted for basic black, but they’ve got a chambray version with a matching double-breasted blazer. Swoon.

    1. Yay! A comment actually about pants, which was the subject of Kat’s post. I’m shocked because lately all of the posts are threadjacks. Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll check out BR pants. I wish Kat would do a post on ankle pants. I have a few pair but always feel like they’re too short/long and that I’ve picked the wrong pair.

      1. I tried my ankle pants again yesterday and took them off the minute i got home because I just think they aren’t flattering.

        1. I really like the loft cropped pants. I think they’re called ‘skinny pants’ or ‘pencil’ – cropped but still work appropriate and 98-99 percent wool. Very flattering, I think.im between sizes and sized down as they stretch a bit.

    2. Disagree as to BR Sloan — I wear them to work almost every day at my law firm, which is definitely not a business casual office.

      1. I wear Martin too and was pleasantly surprised that the Logan fits– it’s maybe 5% less curvy and 10% less flared.

  7. I could use some Hive advice. My college crowd is gathering this summer in the Caribbean to celebrate milestone birthdays. We only all get together every few years and it tends to be a blowout (Shots Shots Shots! always joins us). The milestone celebrators are two of the people I’m closest to, and one came to my own milestone destination birthday. I really want to be there for them, see the whole crew, and enjoy a tropical vacation.

    But you may be able to guess where this is going. DH and I will be 4 months into TTC our first at the time of the trip and the destination is a Zika zone on the CDC list. The CDC has lost some credibility in my eyes after their tone-deaf, overbroad recommendations about women and alcohol, and my thought process leans toward pragmatic risk assessment (a la Emily Oster and Expecting Better) rather than avoid-all-possible-risk-ever. But as far as I know, there’s not much data and research about Zika at this point so it’s hard to make a truly informed decision. Also, there’s the possibility that I’ll actually be pregnant and not be up for a wild weekend.

    I’m also being swayed toward skipping by the fact that it will involve at least one vacation day, and an expensive, multi-leg flight. If flights were cheaper I’d consider just booking and eat the money if advised by my own doctor not to go. But if it comes down to money, that makes me feel like a pretty bad friend.

    What would you do?

    1. Have you already started TTC? Is there a reason you can’t put it off four months? In the grand scheme of things having a child 4 months younger is NBD.

      1. I was going to suggest this except if DH is going too she’ll be having unprotected sex with someone exposed to Zika, which is another risk.

      2. Are you currently TTC, or will you have just started? Are you up against a time crunch (already in late 30s, for instance).

        If you haven’t started and aren’t worried about age, I would consider waiting 6 months to TTC – because once you have kids, there is a good chance you won’t see these college friends again on a trip like this for years, if ever – blowout trips get so much harder to make happen with little kids in the mix.

        If you have started, I would consider waiting until you have either a positive or negative test this month before buying plane tickets or bowing out, and then hit pause on TTC for a few months.

        Although I agree with the below poster about asking if there are others in your friend group that are also TTC – you might not be the only one skipping this one.

        Could you fly to visit the milestone celebrators for a long weekend where they live instead?

    2. I think part of my analysis would depend on what you intend to do while there. If it is a lot of outdoor activity where there are lots of mosquitoes (say hiking in the rain forest) I’d decline. If the crew tends to go to indoor bars, stay out late, sleep in, do a spa day or two and you are going to be mostly away from mosquitoes then it is a risk I’d probably take. Also, are you staying somewhere with closed doors and AC? That likewise reduces your risk.

      2. Would travel insurance cover not going b/c you don’t want to? I have never read the fine print, but have no idea how you’d draft coverage that would cover any of the scenarios here (might be pregnant, is pregnant, is worried, is not medically prohibited from travel) so that it made economic sense to be in this business.

        The cost of a fully-refundable-for-whatever-reason flight would have this priced into it (which is why they’re expensive), so i genuinely want to know (like if there is flight insurance that would cover “crazy partner / crazy client / crazy opposing counsel).

        1. I have purchased cancel for any reason trip insurance. I bought it through the travel agent who booked our trip. It’s much more expensive than typical travel insurance – think a couple hundred dollars versus the $30 or whatever Expedia offers you to “protect” your flight.

          1. Cancel every reason is definitely an option. I used it once, and said it was work related and it was covered. If I was in this situation and decided not to go and use the insurance, the one thing I wouldn’t do was mention it was pregnancy / zika related.

          2. That’s fantastic! I am afflicated by random craziness and may look into this for our next expensive trip. I didn’t know that random craziness was something that you could insure against, but this is great to know. I figured that the cheap option would never cover me and didn’t realize that there was something else out there.

    5. I would skip it. Between the risk that you get Zika and the risk that DH gets it and sexually transmits it to you, its too risky. Good idea for your friends though – there are lots of deals to be had traveling to Zika areas right now (as long as you aren’t TTC or pregnant).

    6. I’d probably skip – why take the risk? If you are pregnant by then, you’ll probably not want to be up for shots shots shots anyway, as you mentioned. Could you suggest an alternative destination in the U.S. instead? Not sure that Florida is much better, but maybe a fun city closer up north. Or you could plan to have a mini-celebration with each milestone birthday friend before they leave.

      FWIW, I flew several times in my first trimester, so I’m not advocating for avoiding all.possible.risks.ever!

    7. Can you suggest a change in location? Whether you cite Zika concerns is up to you. If you’re all around 30 it should not be shocking that someone might be TTC and, frankly, you’re probably not the only one who’s concerned. These are your close friends, not coworkers, idk why you wouldn’t just be up front with them, but that’s just me.

      2. +2, this was my initial reaction as well. Go somewhere else and tell your friends why, they’re your friends.

      3. +3. Suggest alternate locations (don’t just say “not there”). I cannot imagine you are the only one thinking about this.

    8. I wouldn’t risk it unless you are willing to stop TTC until well after the trip. In my my mind, there is enough evidence that there is some link between Zika and microcephaly that I wouldn’t risk it. There’s also some question as to whether it heightens the risk of miscarriage.

      I’m a big fan of making informed decisions (I ate sushi, drank lots of coffee, etc while pregnant). When we were TTC and in early pregnancy, my husband I decided to skip our planned (but not paid for) trips to Costa Rica and the USVI because of the risk. Now that I have miscarried, I feel even more strongly about not taking the risk.

      Ultimately, only you and your husband can make this decision. You have to weigh the risks and decide whether you are willing to take that chance. You may not be pregnant at that time and wish you had gone, or some research may come out showing that Zika doesn’t cause as many issues as initially feared. Or, you could go, be bitten by an infected mosquito, and have to live with some very serious problems. It’s hard because, as you said, there isn’t a ton of solid information out there.

    9. One of my biggest regrets is how many things I missed out on while TTC. Our journey ended up taking years during which we missed many trips, weddings and celebrations. I think you’ll regret not going if you get to the trip and are still waiting. Can you get travel insurance so you could cancel if you are indeed pregnant by then? The Zika thing kind of terrifies me so I would not go anywhere within a Zika zone if pregnant.

    10. There is absolutely no way I would consider going to a Zika zone while TTC. Could there be others in your college crowd who are also, or soon may be, TTC? I can’t imagine you being the only one concerned by this. Could they change the destination?

      I understand the “meh” that comes along with burning a vacation day and paying for a long flight. Those factors might make it a coin toss, but with Zika and TTC, for me it would be an absolute no.

      2. +1. I would not go if you’re planning on TTC in the 6 months that follow the trip. The idea that we don’t trust the CDC for Zika warnings because they were a little inept in how they delivered their warning about drinking while TTC just blows my mind. There is extremely clear evidence that Zika causes very serious birth defects and that you can contract it and never even be aware of it. I can tell you as someone who is pregnant and traveled to a Caribbean country right before the big warnings had come out it had spread — this is not a risk you want to take or even think about. And maybe it’s because I’m older but the idea of putting off TTC to go on a Caribbean vacation is kind of nuts to me. Zika can stay in your system for a long time. Some are warning women in countries with Zika to not TTC for two years!

        1. I agree 100%, don’t go to a Zika zone while TTC or pregnant, but the idea that you have to wait 6 months after returning home is crazy. Zika leaves your bloodstream in a matter of days. Personally, I’d use barrier methods for the next 4 months, enjoy the trip, and start TTC a week or two after returning home.

      3. I have an upcoming trip to a place where Zika is a concern, and to be perfectly honest, the trip is a notch is the “No” column regarding whether we’ll consider ever having a third child. And, the hypothetical third wouldn’t even be a consideration for another year or so.

        I also engaged in behavior commonly considered risky while pregnant (coffee, etc.)

    11. I’d either stop TTC just before the trip (and confirm not preggo) and go, or not go. I’m 8 momths preggo so have looked into Zika a lot. There’s nothing or very little you can do while preggo to confirm your baby is normal and doesn’t have microcephaly – the defect won’t be visible/ detectable until the VERY end of your pregnancy, so you’ll spend your entire pregnancy wondering. You’ll be knocking stuff like Downs off the list of things to worry about, but never Zika/microcephaly. Basically you’d think your pregnancy was fine and then birth the baby and find out. Incredibly low chance, but that would suck big time. Generally on all pregnancy risks, I basically endorse Emily Oster, but even her view needs to be balanced.

  8. Advice for post-shingles nerve pain that conveniently sits where my bra band is?Even camisoles with built in shelf bras still feel too tight and cause flare ups. Should I just wear a thick cami? For reference, I wear like a 34-36A in VS sizing… I’m a true 28C but anyway, just looking for bra alternatives for work. I’m starting to take something for the pain flare ups but it does make me drowsy.

    1. I would consider a cami or you can get some of the front only bras/pasties type things.

      http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/fashion-forms-lace-ultimate-boost-bra-lace-ultimate-boost-mc063?ID=1251597&CategoryID=225&tdp=cm_app~zMCOM-NAVAPP~xcm_zone~zPDP_ZONE_B~xcm_choiceId~zcidM06MAS-8853567a-5571-4cf0-9228-a7aef7f5eea6%40H5%40you%2Bmight%2Balso%2Blike…%24225%241251597~xcm_srcCatID~z225~xcm_pos~zPos5

      But that could still be uncomfortable if some of your neuropathic pain wraps around to the front.

      You could also try asking your doctor for a topical medication for pain. There are creams that you can put on first thing in the morning before you get dressed, and add again during the day. You might even try some over the counter Caspacin cream from Walgreens, but read the directions carefully about how to apply and wash your hands well afterwards.

      Also, a cold pack (or even a not too hot pack)…. can do wonders in a pinch during a flare.

    2. Not sure if this would be strong enough for you, but I have mild pain in the nerves that run down my legs and a shot of solarcaine spray numbs/cools them off enough for me to go to sleep / wear pants.

    3. No tips, but so much commiseration. I had shingles 3 times before I was 26, which my doctor told me is crazy weird (yay for being unique!) and it is horrific.

      1. oh my god, that is insane. I got it when I was 23, on top of not having any blisters, so it went undiagnosed until like, week 2? When I was crying at the urgent care center because of the pain. I got the anti virals and the pain killers but it was a little too late at that point. They didn’t even think it was shingles until I realized it didn’t cross my midline and told them that, repeatedly.

        3 times though, I can’t imagine.

      2. Can I just say that I am so fed up with doctors saying that it’s unusual? my sister and I both got it under 30 and I got it at age 19 and again at 27. Somehow I feel like the science on this may be old.

        1. I don’t know how old you all are, but there are some new theories that suggest shingles is becoming more common in people in their 20s and 30s. (I’ve had shingles twice, too.)

          Google “Macleans” + “shingles” to read about it.

    4. I read about but haven’t tried something called a br34st nest…it’s like a camisole but without the band, it;s made of some kind of shaping material and has a little curved area in fronts for your chest. Can’t link it for you but google it and you will see. Good luck!

    6. How about a normal non-shelf cami worn with silicone n ipple covers? The ones I have are just round, thin silicone, no padding, meant to prevent headlights in unlined bras. But they would stay on without a bra of you hold them to the breast for a bit and let them kind of mold to you, and a fitted cami over would be extra insurance.

    7. I have a Hanro microfiber camisole that is supportive enough to be a bra. Touch feeling, I think it is called. Also, you could maybe get a cheap spandex bralette and cut pieces out of it around the pain.

  9. Looking for a new book/speaker/topic for my (small) company’s women’s initiative. We discussed Lean In last meeting. Any other suggestions? Most of us are older more senior women.

    1. There’s a good freakenomics podcast on the real reasons for the gender pay gap – features a Harvard prof and Ann Marie Slaughter (lots of good stuff by her around too, and possibly a new book). All go a bit more in depth than lean-in.

    2. Have you read Anne-Marie Slaughter’s book? I think it’s called Unfinished Business. It took me longer to read than Lean In but that’s because it’s much more dense. I enjoyed it though.

    3. “What Works for Women at Work: Four Patterns Working Women Need to Know” by Joan Williams and her daughter. We discussed this book in a similar group (although with more junior women) and enjoyed the read.

    1. Yes, super-disappointing. They have featured other successful women before, but apparently none who identify with the F word (feminist).

    3. Completely ridiculous. I can’t believe they apologized for an innocuous interview with Gloria Steinem. I’m done buying from Lands End.

    4. So disappointing!! I won’t shop there again. They had the best bathing suits and outerwear, ugh.

    5. Seems like all of us who are angry about the apology need to be as vocal with LE as the right-wingers were in complaining.

  11. Those of you who have gotten divorced: did you celebrate the divorce when it was over? If so, how?

    1. I am planning a party right now, for a friend. I’m thinking champagne and the First Wives Club.

    2. I took my sister out to celebrate after her divorce from her abusive, cheating, drug-using ex husband. Personally, I thought it was a much better reason to celebrate than them getting married.

    3. Didn’t celebrate the divorce per se — other than taking myself to lunch instead of eating at my desk that day — but marked my wedding anniversary (which was before the proceedings were final but after it was clear we were never ever getting back together) with a fling with an old boyfriend. Does that count?

    4. I took my best friend and my sister out for a nice dinner as thanks for all of their support during the divorce.

    5. My brother and I took our other brother out for a night of drinks to celebrate his divorce from his emotionally abusive, cheating, manipulative ex-wife. Way way way more worthy of celebrating the divorce than the wedding (where some of us had already picked up on her tendencies). Extra bonus: he is now engaged to a truly fabulous woman.

    6. I paid for my attorney’s fee on my Delta Amex card for the miles. Afterward the divorce was final, I booked a first class ticket to visit my childhood best friend who lives halfway across the country from me. Another good friend met us there. I spent a great week with them relaxing, catching up, and letting the two of them spoil me a little bit.

    7. My divorce took longer than I expected to be final. We had already submitted all the paperwork but were just waiting on the official papers from the county. We waited close to a year, and no one was contesting anything.

      Finally, I took a day off work and went to the courthouse. They sent me from department to department and back to the original department where a lady finally said “wai, that rings a bell,” and dug through a pile of papers on her desk, found ours, stamped it and handed it to me. I said, “I’m divorced now?” And she said, “yeah, go have a drink.”

      But instead I drove to the house of a man I had started dating. He worked from home & was surprised to see me. I said, “I’m divorced!” and held up the paper. He said, “I thought you were divorced a long time ago!”

      And then a year later I married him. That was 17 years ago but I remember it like it was yesterday.

      As far as what we did to celebrate, I think he needs to take me to Red Lobster.

  12. If two people get married and neither changes their names, are they the Smith-Jones household? Or does that hyphen suggest that they’re Jane Smith-Jones and Joe Smith-Jones instead of Jane Smith and Joe Jones?

    1. I would read the hyphen as indicating that both people had hyphenated their names, and would probably go with “Smith & Jones Household” instead to avoid confusion.

    2. If they have hyphenated kids, the hyphen does not imply that the parents are also hyphenated.

    3. Who is using a hyphen here?

      I didn’t change my name and I don’t think we have a name for our household. 3/4 of us have one last name (I am the oddball) and cards often come to The Non-Oddball Family. But we are not the Oddball-Non-Oddball household (we don’t call ourselves that and no one else has called us that).

      1. We do. We are the Smith & Jones family and most people get it right on correspondence without any action from us (we have never told anyone how to address us). But when I think about my household I would be sad if people thought of us only as the Joneses.

    4. My husband and I got married 6 months ago and neither of us changed our name. We get mail addressed to My first my last and his first his last (except from my mother in law who is great in every respect except she addresses mail to Mr and Mrs his first his last). We are the my last and his last household. No hyphens.

      It might depend on the family though. We made a joke mashup of our last names which some of our friends use for us sometimes. that’s fine with us because they all know that we really kept our names.

    5. I didn’t change my name and neither did my husband. Mail directed to us is labeled Mr. John Smith & Mrs. Jane Doe.

      We don’t really have a household name–I can’t think of a time when we needed one.

      1. I think that The Smith-Jones household is just fine, but I agree with KT that it’s not really likely to come up. In the 8 years between when I got married and I changed my name, this was literally never an issue.

        (FWIW, though, I’m of the opinion that it’s not worth worrying about what people call you unless it’s actually important. For example, my name is impossible to pronounce (as was my maiden name), but if I’m not going to have extended interactions with the person mangling it, it’s a lot easier to just smile and say “Hey, close enough”.)

    6. When I was married, we would use Smith/Jones on things like return address spots on envelopes (unless we used preprinted labels, which had both names). And when we had a landline phone, the answering machine said “this is the Smith/Jones household” (in the voice of our son at about age 5, until one of the cats erased it when he was about 18, still makes me sad to have lost that . . .) Other than that, I don’t think we ever used a common reference for the “household.”

      2. Same here, and for my parents as well. That said, others often use a hyphen rather than a slash (it’s not as though when you say “Smith/Jones”, which my folks do, you can hear the punctuation), and that’s fine as well. The slash is basically just what I’ve decided is the grammatically best way of expressing it in writing.

    7. Neither of us changed our names and we jokingly refer to ourselves as “Team [My first name]-[His last name].” As in “Team [X-Y] will be in attendance at the party.” Our return mail address is “[my name] and [his name].”

      1. We both changed our name to (my last) (his last) and our wedding vows included a vow to be ‘co-captains of team (mine) (his)”. It was made even more cheesetastic with the fact that the composition of our name is color + animal, making it a convenient mascot.

      2. Just realized I had a typo. I meant we call ourselves “Team [My last name]-[His last name].” Not “[My first name]-[His last name]” which wouldn’t really make sense.

    8. Hrm, so for married without kids people, I address things:
      Jane Smith & Bob Jones (or Ms. Smith and Mr. Jones).

      When there are kids, I typically, unless I know it raises hairs otherwise, pick the last name that the kids use and address things to the [lastname of majority] Family. If you’ve got hypenated kids names but no parents hyphenate…then ugh. I’d probably do Jane Smith, Bob Jones & Family. But nobody has tortured me like that yet.

      1. My kids have my husband’s last name (e.g. Jones), and I am fine being referred to as the Jones Family or Jones Household. So, that does not bother me at all.

        The only time I get bothered is when something is addressed to me specifically, and the party knows that I did not change my last name- but still addresses it Jane Jones. I view this as a condescending way to say that the person does not agree with my choice to not change my name.

    9. Our two last names start with the same two letters and sort of naturally make a portmanteau our friends and family all use (and personal mail is generally addressed to the “Portmanteau Family”). It’s fun, but I think unless they’ve stated their preferred convention, I’d just refer to them by their names in conversation, and for written correspondence, I would use each of the couple’s full names or “X&Y Family” if kids are included (I’d put the names in alphabetical order).

    10. I do actually refer to our household as the Smith-Jones household.

      I kept my name, and my husband kept his, but we hyphenated them for the children.

      I sign cards “from the Smith-Jones”

    11. I don’t know if there’s a rule on it, but neither my husband or I changed our names. We have Scarlett & Rhett as our return address stamp, and we get mail in every combination possible. My favorite though, is when people send us mail to the “O’Hara & Butler Family” even though we don’t have kids. It’s nice that our party of two is acknowledged as a family.

  13. My screenname today should be Crabbie, but…does the new White House/Black Market commercial drive anyone else nuts? I’m talking about the one with the woman with long, flowing hair literally flouncing around her pretend office in a yellow dress, skintight jeans, spiked heels, culottes, and other totally ridiculous outfits. My impression of WHBM is that it’s mostly clothes for professional women, but this commercial makes work look like some teenager’s idea of what “work” looks like based only on rom-coms. I hate it. Maybe it’s just me.

    1. I don’t think of WHBM as “professional”. That is more weekend/going out wear for me. Definitely skews young.

      1. For a long time I thought of WHBM as a store for 45-55 year old women with early ’00s style. They’ve gotten better in the past few years and I’ve purchased a couple things there, but they still sell some Reba McEntire-esque pieces that I give a hard side eye to.

        I haven’t seen the commercial.

    2. I think WHBM has lost track of their demographic a bit. When I first became aware of them, it was probably about a decade ago and my mom really liked them for staples. For a several years I thought of them as a nice place to go for some work pieces. In the past few years though, they really seem all over the map. Some of their clothes read older and a little goofy, like Ann Taylor’s dingbat friend, others seem young and casual. I used to always find a couple things I liked in there – now I typically leave without buying anything.

      1. “like Ann Taylor’s dingbat friend”

        +1 hahaha. This. I was a devotee for a long time 10-15 years ago, particularly because their small sizes were actually small. The clothes were always classy, always well made, but expensive. Now that I can afford them, of course, much more hit or miss.

      2. Ha, that makes sense. I was aware of them but until last fall I considered them a Not For Me store. Then I found some great pieces. My MIL remarked on one of them and I told her where it was from she was very excited and said how much she loved that store. I couldn’t imagine her shopping there and it’s puzzled me since.

  14. Do any DC ladies have recommendations for eye doctors? Downtown DC preferable, but I’m looking for someone who is good with gas permeable contacts most of all and am willing to travel. I was very spoiled by my doctor in LA and have been reluctant to find someone here, but it is really time to do it. Thanks!

    2. Metropolitan Optical. Very thorough and I’ve had minimal waits. I buy my frames from Warby parker though because I think the frames there are crazy expensive (and the opticians try to up-sell you). The doctor is great though.

    3. I was really pleased with the service I received recently at my new eye doctor – Goldberg, OD. I went to their Alexandria office, but they also have an office by Dupont Circle (1720 Connecticut Ave, NW). Both Dr. David Goldberg and Dr. Robert Stetekluh were great to work with, and I have notoriously difficult to fit soft contacts (strong astigmatism and very nearsighted). The reviews online indicate others have also had good experiences with their contact fittings too. Although I can’t speak to their work with RGP contacts, I think they’re definitely worth checking out.

  15. DC ‘rettes – recommendations for your favorite grocery and restaurant delivery apps and companies? Looking for deliveries to my home mostly. Seems like there’s something new everyday – what you do you like? While not groceries/food, I’ll give a shout out to DC Urban Stems for flowers for my secretary – love that company :)

    1. I love Urban Stems too!!! Unfortunately no delivery services to recommend. I’m all Amazon Prime, all the time.

    2. Thanks for this! It’s awesome to see a major retailer offer this for the women who wear items like this. And the tunics are gorgeous!

    4. Nice to see mainstream retailers catering to a wider audience, and with such beautiful clothes!

    5. I think this is a great thing to have clothing in mainstream stores for all kinds of people who might shop there. I have a question and I hope I phrase this without being offensive but does the term ‘modesty’ clothing rub anyone else the wrong way? I understand that this is the entire concept of the hijab, etc, is modesty before god, but to me it also suggests that not wearing the hijab, etc, is somehow immodest, which I frankly reject. What do y’all think?

      1. I am not of a culture that wears hijabs. However “modesty-war” does not offend me. I think of it as these articles being more modest than the typical offerings, not a modest (hijabs, etc.) v. immodest (everything else).

      2. Are you implying that the term “modesty” in reference to clothing means to wear with hijab only? To me, “modesty clothing” means just that – not sheer, not tight, cover more skin. I don’t associate the term with religion.

        1. I read anon as saying it’s a false dichotomy, e.g skirts above the knee are now immodest or slutty. And I understand that; I’m just not sure what other word retailers could use that would convey the idea of the clothes without explicit religious overtones.

        2. I guess I feel the term “modest/modesty” implies “moral” not “full-coverage”. I think using this term is a bit value-laden, unfortunately, and plays into the narrative that women’s character is tied to how they dress in terms of coverage.

    7. “Modesty” is also code used by LDS and other non-Muslim religions. There are websites specifically targeted at LDS communities that use the term. Search “modest prom dresses” for examples.

      I’m not any religion but I dress fairly modestly for work because I’m a senior Exec. It can be very difficult to find things that are modest but not dowdy.

  17. Help me save my junior associate from herself. I’m a senior associate in a tiny niche practice in non-NYC biglaw. I work directly with two superiors and we hired our first junior associate last year.

    Junior is a sweet person and has a great attitude, but she’s quite overeager. The first assignment I gave her was a simple research assignment. I asked for a yes/no and maybe a sentence or two explanation. I got a 50-page dissertation on the history of the issue and a binder of tabbed and highlighted cases, law review articles, and statutes. She apparently spent over 100 hours in one week working on this, which I know because the partner chastised me for letting her work so much on such a simple issue. I didn’t know she was pulling those hours until it was too late; she tends to work from home a lot. I asked her to please come to me in the future if she’s working like that because we try to have a good lifestyle and I want her to be happy.

    Since that conversation, she has continued to work crazy hours for simple, usually administrative, tasks. The partner in our office again chastised me for allowing the unfair division of labor to continue. I explained the situation but he doesn’t want to listen or deal with it. I’m certainly annoyed that I’m beginning to look bad, but I’m more concerned that Junior will burn herself out. I don’t want her so exhausted from staying up late doing BS that she’s not at the top of her game when I need her to be. Advice on how to talk to her (again) about this?

    1. It sounds like this exact explanation would suit her well and would get to the heart and nuance of the matter with her without being offensive or anything like that. She needs to see the bigger picture and this will help.

    2. Sounds like you may need to be more emphatic about how you set expectations as well as setting check-in times after she’s billed a certain number of hours. “I’m looking for a yes/no and maybe a sentence or two explanation on this. I’m expecting it to take a total of 3 hours. Come check in with me after you’ve billed 2 hours so I can make sure you’re on track.”

      In my opinion, it’s not helpful to approach it by telling her you want her to have a good lifestyle. She probably thinks you’re just saying that but don’t mean it (cause most law firms don’t care). Instead it may be helpful to explain to her that spending too much time (effectively running up a large bill) on administrative assignments causes problems with clients and you need her to trust that you when you give her the scope of a project, it’s actually counterproductive for her to try and go above and beyond without talking to you first. So if she finds herself going over a certain number of hours on a particular assignment, she MUST come check in with you before billing any further.

      1. Yeah, I think a lesson on realistic project times and the ability to bill for them is valuable one. She’s a junior associate, so you are already anticipating that she will take a bit longer than someone more experienced. Maybe give her some samples of what a quick “answer” looks like.
        Also, what does her workload look like? Does she not have enough work if she’s doing admin tasks? Does she not have enough admin support? Does she not know how to distinguish billable from non-billable work and think she needs to do it all?

        1. My post was getting long so I didn’t include more details about the admin tasks, but since you asked – We work with partners all over the world. Sometimes we’ll get an email at 3 a.m. our time that says something like, please make sure x admin task gets taken care of. These are absolutely things that can be done by staff during business hours. Junior insists on doing them at 3 a.m. even though I’ve repeatedly told her they can wait and if you think something is an emergency then ask me. Of course, Junior is not trained to do these tasks, so something that would take our secretary 20 minutes takes her 3 hours. Even if I catch her in time to tell her, we’ll have staff do it in the morning, go to bed, she’ll get in the office at 6 a.m. and do it herself anyway.

          1. Can you take away her laptop and phone???

            Not following directions would infuriate me. I can see how she thinks she is being helpful and is probably nervous about her new job, but if you have explicitly told her NOT to do something and she is doing it anyway? Very frustrating and not a good use of anyone’s time.

            I agree with what others have said about giving her a time limit/frame and a check-in mark. I think you have to be pretty firm at this point.

      2. This. Set out an hour expectation and ask her to check in after a % of the hours have passed. Also, if you need to, explain it to her in terms of billable projects- you can’t bill client 100 hours for a yes/no question that could be reasonably and thoroughly researched in 3 hours.

      3. +1

        This. “The client won’t pay for it and we’ll have to cut your time, which is bad for you and the firm” is much more persuasive and difficult to argue with than you wanting her not to burn out (although that’s great).

        Tell her she can’t do administrative tasks because she can’t bill for them- that’s why you have administrative assistants.

    3. I would say something like the client has allotted X hours for this project (because presumably the client doesn’t want to pay for 100 hours of work on a simple issue). Please come check with me after x-50% hours so I can ensure you are using your time appropriately. I would also shorten the deadline for the assignment so she can’t spend too much more time than you think it should take.

    4. Are you telling her how much time to spend when you give the assignment(s)?

      “Please don’t spend more than 4 hours on this before checking with me.”

    5. I agree with the other posters to talk with her again and give her more details re: why this is problematic. Then, going forward, give her an hours budget for tasks when you can. Sometimes it could be a wide range depending on the nature of the task, but at least she’ll know if she’s wildly off track again.

    6. Short answer: Let her go and hire me. I can promise you I will never work 100 hours in one week on a simple research assignment, and when you tell me to go have a life, the only concern you need to have is for your toes to make sure I don’t run over them as I peel out of the parking lot. :P

    7. Re-framing the discussion might help too. This person clearly wants to excel at their job. Sometimes people need to be explicitly told that an important part of their job is to use good judgement about how much effort should be devoted to each particular task. And then you can explain the criteria for making that decision (billable hours, priorities, etc). So if they want to excel, they will be evaluated both on the quality of the work product AND the amount of resources (i.e., their time) that they required to produce the work.

    8. When I was a junior associate it was particularly helpful when the senior associates would give me guidance on how long they expected something to take. This was usually for the purpose of making sure the amount of time I billed was consistent with expectations but also gives a good clue as to whether I was expected to boil the ocean to find the perfect answer or just do some quick research. Maybe if you told her explicitly, “this shouldn’t take more than 3 hours, please let me know if it looks like it’s going to take any longer.”

      Also, since it sounds like she’s a bit of a gunner, I wouldn’t phrase it as a lifestyle concern (which if she doesn’t have much going on outside the office may not resonate with her) but in terms of “we don’t want you spending too much time on the small administrative matters because there is other work we need you to have time for as well.”

      Finally, if she is being billed out to clients, teach her to look at it from the client’s perspective. A great attorney I once worked for put it in terms of diminishing marginal returns. The first chunk of time you spend on a project creates real value for the client – you are researching/answering a question, drafting a document, etc. The next chunk may be refining your argument or writing, which is valuable because it provides a professional looking and easy-to-understand document for your client. But after that they get very little additional value from any time you spend and bill looking at more cases that say the same thing, highlighting and tabbing, etc.

    9. You don’t mention – did you tell her exactly what you were looking for? If she’s new and hasn’t been working in general very long, it may not occur to her that you aren’t looking for the most comprehensive response possible. She may also not really think that the 100hrs that she spent was “bad,” especially if she’s thinking she wants to make a good impression and show you that she can do the work.

      You may want to be super direct with her with what you’re looking for in an assignment. If you’re just looking for a couple lines in an email, tell her. Don’t phrase it in a “work-life balance” way, since she’s thinking that as a new lawyer she doesn’t get one. Phrase it in a “this is the scope of the assignment, this is the output that I’m looking for” kind of way.

    10. Sounds like she is trying to bill, bill, bill as much as she can. She needs to understand that billing x number of hours doesn’t help anyone if the firm is only going to recoup payment for x-[unnecessary work] hours. Partners do not like having to write off billable time, especially when the time should never have been spent in the first place. Be truthful and blunt: she is getting the wrong kind of attention from the partner because of her inflated hours and she needs to cut it out.

      2. +1.

        It was really helpful for me, as a new associate, when a senior associate explained the difference between “hours billed” and “hours collected,” and gave me good guidance on what an acceptable ratio between those two numbers was for our practice group. Also, at that firm, part of the evaluation for partnership potential included that ratio – if you billed 100 hours in a week and only collected 3, you were way worse off, from a bonus/raise/partnership potential perspective, than if you “only” billed 40 hours in a week but they were 100% collectible.

    11. 1) Give her a shorter turn-around time. Give her a day or two, not a week. Less rope to hang herself with. 2) Explicitly say “the budget on this is 3 hours.” It’s easy enough to understand “the client is very much concerned with the budget.”

    12. Only thing I have to add to the above are to not allow any wiggle room in billable time for an assignment; instead of “check in with me after 3 hours,” try “the expectation is that this project will only take 3 hours, and we are not willing to bill the client for more than that.”

      You can also talk with her about meeting the needs of internal and external customers. External customers, i.e. clients, want a high-quality product at a reasonable price (e.g., they aren’t going to pay 100 billable hours for a three-hour project). Internal customers , i.e. the partners and people supervising her, want the business to run smoothly, clients to be happy, bills to be paid, etc. While billable hours can be a decent proxy for meeting the needs of internal customers, that isn’t the case when she’s spending 3 hours doing something an admin would do in 20 minutes.

      Be blunt about the blowback you are getting from this. Think about setting her up with a mid-level mentor in a different group, so she can hear this from other people, too.

      As for the partner: describe the division of labour in terms of tasks, not time.

    13. One thing to add: Make sure she has plenty of work. If there’s a full list of assignments, less room for extending them for long periods of time. & help her prioritize them. Also, consider that if it’s an issue that comes up regularly, it might be worth her spending some time to learn the background. My firm has the flexibility to let us explore, and it pays off later.

  18. On the off chance that there are any Philly r e t t e s who enjoy fancy food, DH and I had a 7:30 reservation to Volver (Jose Garces) to celebrate DH’s birthday tonight.

    Unfortunately I am home sick with a stomach bug and we can’t make the reservation and are facing a $100 fee to cancel. Anyone is welcome to have our reservation!

    1. I don’t know the restaurant specifically, but I bet if you called them as soon as they opened, and very nicely explained what happened (and possibly asking to reschedule the reservation), they might forgive the fee. It’s certainly worth a shot – these things are always negotiable.

      1. I read an article about a year ago about upscale places that had “cancellation fees” and almost every one of them said they only implement them for people who “no-show.” A lot of them have a wait list they can utilize to avoid having an empty table, so definitely call and explain it to them.

    2. OP here– thanks for the advice ladies!! Was able to call the restaurant and move our reservation to next Friday with no fee. Hooray!

      Now just hoping I will be sufficiently healthy to enjoy the delicious dinner!

  19. I have two dresses to return to 6 pm because, despite ordering my usual size, they are giant and weirdly proportioned. They are Sangria brand, not one I’ve heard of, Wonder if that’s this issue.

    For my Whole Life Challenge peeps it’s one of my Must Dos for today.

  20. Has anyone purchased or had experience with an LK Bennett handbag? Love them, but they are pricey so wanted to get reviews.

    2. I own a lot of LK Bennett bc I used to live in the UK. Their stuff is high quality, but some of it is made of really lovely fabrics that aren’t meant to wear a lot. (Think handbags for ladies who lunch.) If it’s leather, their leather is top notch, but if it’s a floral silk clutch…don’t expect it to be a workhorse. I hope that helps.

  21. Looking for some advice, and would appreciate any guidance from others who have been in a similar situation. I am pretty unhappy with my current job (in-house) and current city. DH and I have both been looking for new jobs in a different city, and DH found out that he is able to transfer his position. So, I told my boss that I will be leaving, but he asked if I would stay with the company after I move to the new city, and work remotely. Normally I would say no, because there is so much about this job that I don’t like, and so much that I feel would be difficult to do from a different city. However, DH and I are hoping to start a family soon, and I worry about starting a new job (law firm or otherwise) and going on maternity leave very shortly thereafter. Also, I am about 7 years into practice, so if I was at a law firm, partnership considerations are also a factor. Am I crazy to consider staying on at a job I don’t really like because it would be easier to start a family with them? I can’t help but feel that right now it would be unwise to leave a sure thing, where I’ve banked 7+ years of credibility with my boss, for an unknown, especially when we are considering starting a family soon. DH thinks I need to get out now and use this as an opportunity to start over, but he’s not an attorney, and I still feel like he doesn’t truly understand what it would be like to try to start over at a law firm. Agggh. What would you do – (1) stay with a sure thing, where you’re not necessarily happy, but which is conducive to starting a family, or (2) start over somewhere new, which may make you happier with your actual job, but will most likely be less conducive to starting a family, plus you have to re-build your credibility bank? Anybody experienced this before?

    1. I would absolutely stay at this job for the near future and then reassess once you’re in the new city and working remotely. It will be much easier to job search once you’re actually in the other city. This way you can take your time and job search from a position of strength. You also might find that working remotely is a better experience than working at the office. In my mind, there’s no downside to keeping the job for now and then seeing how things go once you move to the new city.

    2. Both. Agree to work remotely, start a job hunt, and see what you find. If you find something more attractive that fits your needs, quit. If not, you’re good.

  22. Totally random comment: my daughter is watching My Little Pony videos on YouTube. One of the ponies is having a stressful day writing tax law, so she takes a break to cuddle some kittens. Tax law on My Little Ponies; how awesome ! And yes, cuddling kittens would be a great break.

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