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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Anyone else in the “white-knuckling it to 2023” camp with me? My brain is so overloaded at this time of year, the very act of picking out an outfit in the morning is sometimes more than I can handle. This is where the long-sleeved dress, like this one from Hobbs London, comes in handy. You don’t need to mess around with multiple pieces — just toss it on, find some comfy shoes, and move on with your day. Save your brain space for more important things. (Hopefully, I’ll remember to grab tape on my third trip to Target this week.)
The dress is $395 at Bloomingdale’s and comes in sizes 2–16.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anon
Aiiii — I have a very short torso and yet that waist placement looks very high to me. “Maternity wear, but keep it on the DL.”
Lutheran wool socks
True the waist is a little high but I love the style, would be perfect for someone with a large bust and slim hips
Vicky Austin
nice handle!
Lutheran wool socks
got inspired by you the other day and picked this handle
Anon
Love your handle — currently leaning in to Doc Martins b/c they can easily be worn with socks (vs my Birks, which are sized for bare feet).
Hangin’ Darn Tough this morning.
Ellen
I so agree!
Curious
You’ve got me making up my own Catholic take on the wool socks hymns 😂
Walnut
“Let there be wool socks on earth and let them be on my feet.”
I swear we sang Let There Be Peace on Earth every mass during Catholic school. Must have been high in the beginning organist book.
Curious
laughing out loud
Anonymous
As somebody with a very large bust and small and high waist – I disagree! With a big bust this will be empire height, and there will be no waist to balance the boobies before the flare.
I think it would look lovely on a slim person with a long torso, think Princess of Wales.
Ellen
I love this dress and even tho it could make my tuchus more prominent, the fact that it is like an A-line dress makes it better for me then my pencil skirts, which I have not worn very often, and certainly not in the winter when my tuchus is larger.
Anonymous
As a long torso-ed person, this is calling to me.
anon_needs_a_break
I feel like I see this dress every 3 years or so and each time it gets a little uglier.
Anonymous
between the waist placement and the skirt length, I can’t see how this thing would be flattering on anyone…even the color is off-putting.
Anon for this
Gift help? Need to purchase something in the $50ish range for an engaged couple that I don’t know super well. (A cousin and his fiancee.) They aren’t registered yet, which is a bummer because I thought I could use that as a cheat sheet this year…
They live in the suburbs in an apartment (so no possibility to get outdoor stuff), have cats so I’m wary of plants or knickknacks, I’m hesitant to get anything for the home really because I don’t know their taste. Last two years I did consumables so I’d feel a little repetitive doing that again, but maybe that’s because it’s the best option and I should stick with it? (Gift cards are out, the group does physical gifts.)
Anon
Fancy hem stitched cocktail napkins from W-S are a consumable because I can’t keep nice things nice. If not that, this is such a good place for fancy little things like that.
Anonymous
Get a consumable and call it a day. No need to be fresh and inventive.
Curious
+1; if they’re in an apartment, they may be tight on space. A lot of our registry items lived in storage until we got a house. A lot of my sister’s are still at my parents’, since they’re still in an apartment for now.
anon
How about some nice kitchen towels or a cozy blanket along with the consumables? If you want to throw in a gift for kitty Yeoww catnip toys are fun.
Anonymouse
Electric throw!
We have one as early Christmas present to ourselves and it gets fought over regularly.
Anonymous
Ring holder. Cheese knives. One of those custom stamps with their address and/ or some custom note cards if it’s doable in time. Small cake plate. Pretty wine decanter. Aesop hand soap. Smitten kitchen cookbook if they cook a lot. Ina garden if they’re new to cooking.
Coffee table book if they don’t cook at all.(ad at 100 is a tastemaker staple but if they’re into a sport city or hobby id go that route.)
Anne-on
I’d go for a set of nice kitchen towels and the hand soap/lotion combo at William Sonoma, they’re usually packaged up nicely this time of year. If they don’t like it attach a gift receipt and they can easily return it for something more their speed.
anon
I’d be thrilled to get this, honestly.
anon
I’d do a bottle of wine and lottery scratch offs. Or, if you have a cookbook you love, I’d do that with a note about your favorite recipe in it.
Anon
Geometry kitchen towels
Anon
Probably goes without saying, but get a gift receipt!
And make sure it’s from a nearby store so they can exchange easily if needed. Also, tell them “feel free to exchange – I wont mind at all”.
I’ve really appreciated being told that and having a receipt.
Anon for this
OP of the thread here- thanks all! I think a drop-in at W-S is in my future this week. And yes, I will def give a receipt.
dear reader
Late to the thread but I was just thinking yesterday (while using it) that the best Christmas gift I got last year was a really nice chefs knife. I got this one, which if you happen to need four will bring it into your price range with their buy two get two sale. LOL
https://coolinastore.com/collections/kitchen/products/handmade-forged-chef-knife-clad-steel-forged-chinese-cleaver-professional-kitchen-knives-meat-vegetables-slicing-chopping-tool
LK Bennett
What’s it like ordering from LK Bennett? They’ve got a pair of shoes I am lusting after, but if their ordering and returns are anything like Hobbs (~6 weeks for a refund!!) it won’t be worth it. I have tried to find something comparable in the US but no luck.
Anon
I ordered a pair of shoes from them (California). They were the wrong size, so I sent them back via USPS and got the correct size. Takes time, you have to go to the post office, and there is some cost involved. But it all worked out in the end. This was 2018-2019 (ie, pre-pandemic).
Anon
FYI – Bloomingdales sells some Hobbs.
Anon
without the 10$ shipping
Love thyself
As the new year approaches, I’ve been thinking a lot about self-love and self-care. What does self-love mean to you? What do you do to love yourself? I’m talking beyond the facial or mani/pedi?
River bird
Exercise (especially classes) helps me recognize that my body can do amazing things that are a lot of fun – and that it’s not just for looking at. I also try to reflect on non-work, non-parenting positive things that make me “me”- my love of puns, my ability to help friends think through career choices, my appreciation for cute animals.
As someone who is decidedly not into those things, facials and pedis are not self-care in the slightest for me. I appreciate the sentiment of being pampered and being actively checked out of work/responsibilities for a short time, so I substitute other activities like a walk with a coffee I wouldn’t usually buy, or a reading new book in one go.
Anon
For me, self-love means reminding myself regularly of all of the awesome things that make me, me. Those are all unrelated to what I look like, or what shape and size my body is are are not things I do, but are things I am.
Anonymous
Self-care for me can be drudgery, but it’s the sort of thing where I thank my past self for doing it. Things like, meal planning and prep so that I have healthy food in the fridge, personal finance tasks, making sure my wardrobe is in decent shape and fits my current body (I am an under shopper and I hate shopping for clothes and shoes), and exercising (I struggle with consistency). Self-love examples that work for me as a single divorced mom when I have the time and my kid is at dad’s: taking myself on a date to a museum and the museum cafe, trip to a coffee shop that serves coffee in real cups instead of paper takeout cups so it feel special, roaming around a library for a couple of hours, occasional tickets to the symphony, an evening at home eating fancy takeout on a real plate and watching a movie that my kid could not watch, buying myself a few presents for under the Christmas tree and filling my stocking with things I want.
No Face
Taking time to myself, even when I’m busy. For me, that is usually exercise first thing in the morning, and reading or playing video games at night.
Anonymous
i’m not into facials or mani/pedis or anything of the like, so for me that’s not self anything, lol.
for me, self-love looks like being accountable for my actions and words, dealing with all of my past trauma/baggage so i’m not continuing the cycle, breaking bad habits/making improvements when and where i need to, no longer allowing toxic people in my life, being mindful of the people i spend time with, being mindful of the type of media i consume, being mindful of my spending habits, advocating for myself, setting healthy boundaries…
and self-care looks like taking time every day to pursue my interests, making sure i get enough quality sleep every night, making sure both my body and mind are healthy…
Anon
This dress is okay but also looks like I could have found it at JCP or Dress Barn.
Pep
It looks almost exactly like a dress I saw at Boscov’s last year.
Anon
Yes it looks very cheap to me
anon
+1
Anon
It’s so hard to tell from a picture. In person you can see the quality of the fabric and the construction, and the difference between cheap and quite nice becomes very apparent. I’ve got a Max Mara wool dress that probably looks like a blah nothing in a photo but in real life the fabric and tailoring are just so beautiful.
Anon
I do believe you about the your dress, but this dress is polyester and to me looks worse if I zoom in to see the close up. I might like it better if it were wool and had less going on at the neckline? I feel there’s some awkward tension between the busy neckline vs. the bold graphic skirt. It’s true that I can’t really see the pink or the chiffon though!
Anon
I have a Krimson Klover knit wool skirt that is above-the-knee in a pattern like this. Wearing it today with leggings to feel more hygge in the cold.
Top Golf Attire
I will be in Las Vegas at the end of January for a work conference (finance related, so bro-tastic attendance list, 90% men). I am one of four “hosts” from my company that is hosting an event at Top Golf for about 40 clients the night before the main conference begins. What do I wear?!?!? It’s an evening event. I’m in a corner of the country that doesn’t have Top Golf so I’ve never been to a normal one, but I’m told the Vegas one is “the most ridiculous of them all,” whatever that means. Rest of conference is business casual – guys will be in suits with no ties in all likelihood. I may be the only women at this particular event, too. Halp. I’ve got 30 days to get it together.
Anne-on
Do you expect to play? If so I’d aim for pants or a skort you can move/bend in easily. A few friends golf and like the Tory Burch or Lilly Pullitzer golf clothes. Lululemon had longer tennis skorts this summer – I have the ‘court rival’ skirt – the longer ones all seem to still be available online. Skirt or golf pants plus an athletic top and some sort of warm up jacket if you get cold (I am always freezing in Vegas).
Anon
I’m the poster below and I would personally not wear full golf clothes or a skort. I would be willing to bet it will not be that vibe. Top golf isn’t exactly athletic golfing, especially as a host she will probably be schmoozing. A lot of the dudes I would assume will be coming for meetings and/or dressed in a way where they have an option to continue the night out elsewhere.
Anon
*from
Anon
Agreed, don’t wear golf clothes! I would wear stretchy black ankle pants and a flowy top or shell with cardigan. Shoes are black flats, loafers, or sneakers.
Anon
Nooooone wears full golf clothes to TopGolf, at any of them I have ever been to. And I have been to the one in Vegas.
anon
I think wearing golf attire will look too try-hard. I’ve been to TopGolf a bunch of times and golf is not the point. The point is eating, drinking, and socializing. Golf is kind of just the secondary activity. Wear something you can move in, but not a golf outfit. I definitely wouldn’t do Lilly preppy.
anon
Top Golf isn’t real golf; I think this would look weird. OP, I’d probably go with a nice short-sleeved top, black pants, and polished sneakers.
OP
Links or suggestions for polished sneakers? It’s admittedly a gap I’ve had in my wardrobe for some time. FWIW, I’m 37, have a toddler and have little hope of keeping white sneakers white…. but I’d do it if that’s the look.
Anon
Cole Haan and Boden are your friends. I’m sure there will be a lot of Opinions on this, but I would say something like this:
https://www.colehaan.com/womens-grandpro-topspin-sneaker-optic-white-gold-leopard-print/W22754.html
My work sneakers I literally only wear for work to keep them nice if that helps with the wearing white.
dear reader
Dang. I was prepared to not like the Cole Haan sneakers since I think of them for more formal shoes, and I really really like those that you posted.
Anne-on
This is so interesting to me, I would have thought it would be more of a show-offy look how good I am at golf vibe!
I’ve only gone ‘golfing’ like this at Chelsea Piers in NYC, all the finance dudes/women I was with were in full on golf clothes and many brought their own clubs/accesories and it was considered rude/bad form not to at least hit a few balls.
Anon
I think that Top Golf is like 75% happy hour, 25% non-serious driving range. Kids have parties there in my city and it’s good for team-building, so IMO that doesn’t equate with serious golf. I’d make sure I had a comfy bra on, but not full-on athletic gear. This is where athleisure shines, IMO.
Colette
I think that is true for like a day outing that is truly about golf/networking.
This is a conference/networking thing that happens to be at a golf venue. Folks will be coming from/going to other work functions.
Anonymous
Noo! Don’t wear golf attire! I’d wear black pants with stretch, a nice fun blouse (it’s Vegas so a bright fun print), and a semi-casual loafer.
Anon
I’ve been to Top Golf and second this. My team went after a conference and everyone was in workwear, slacks. I avoided wearing a dress that day, substituting it for bus-cas pants, and it was fine.
Anon
Also dont wear heels! Any flats or loafers are fine, you are just standing in place and not running. Sneakers are not needed IMO. Flat and comfortable shoes you would otherwise wear with a short walking commute are fine.
Anon
Hi! I’m in finance and go to Vegas a lot for work. I would probably wear: black slim pants that I have from Loft that double as pants I wear both to work and casually; maybe one of the long sleeve silk-type blouses that I wear to work. Whichever one I feel the cutest/most fashionable in. Then post pandemic I personally have a couple of pairs of nice sneakers that I wear to work sometimes that I would wear. No heels for sure, uncomfortable and you would look out of place. If I was an attendee I would maybe even do jeans, but as a host I probably would not. The guys will not be in their suits for top golf unless they have to for logistic reasons.
Liza
+1, when in doubt about what to wear, black slacks and a work appropriate top are my go-to
Anon
I think I am going to that same conference!
Vegas in January can be freezing, so if you were Trad, you’d pack not just a fleece vest but a full-on sweater fleece. I am having a hard time remembering what women wore to these in before times (there aren’t a lot of us). The most recent prior one I was at was when it was HOT, so MMLF dresses with flats was a safe bet and a wrap for full-on A/C.
I have a fancy bag from a rival firm that I joke about using so that my meltdowns and Karen moments will be attributable elsewhere. :)
OP
NMHC?
My uniform for the rest of the conference is likely to be something of the MMLF variety. Evening events after the Tuesday/Wednesday meetings are easy to dress for because you just roll in to them from the day of speed dating meetings. This one on Monday night has me scratching my head. I like the idea of black pants. I bet I could get away with black jeans and a cute top, maybe Rothy’s or other flats to keep it simple. I thankfully have some women in my office I can toss the idea off of, but none are going and I seriously didn’t know where to start! I agree with other poster that a full golf outfit isn’t the right move.
Anon
Sorry — it was SFIG (which I think is now SFA). Probably same clothes though. People dress up a bit more, IMO, because they don’t want to look schlubby in front of their peers, clients, and rivals.
Anonymous
In 2019 the female equivalent of Trad’s Patagonia Better Sweater was a long J Crew sweater jacket with no buttons.
No Face
Black pants and long sleeve work top that works in a wide range of temperatures. Do not wear golf clothes.
Colette
Also work in a male dominated field.
I’d go with black pants, either a silk blouse or something like that blouse from the fold, and a pair of either chunky loafers or Gucci type loafers, depending on your vibe. Given the schedule of these days, I would doubt that men will be in sneakers so I would not do that.
I’d do either simple diamond studs or smallish hoops, no big jewelry that would be hard to take a swing with in case you did hit some balls.
I’d make sure not to over dress since the venue could be hot and I’d take a few practice swings at home first to make sure nothing rode up/gaped.
Have fun! This seems like a great event.
Anon
I would bet that a good number of the men will be in the sneakers-that-look-like-dress-shoes that they all wear now. If they can, so can I. It’s harder to find for women, but doable. Loafers just aren’t the same level of comfort, and maybe it’s my age or the pandemic but I am not here for that comfort unfairness anymore.
Colette
Agree on the men wearing the sneaker/dress shoe hybrid but that’s a very different vibe than a woman in bright white sneakers as was suggested above.
I’d stick with something comfortable on the same level of formality as the men.
I put those green inserts into my loafers and find them very comfortable. I have super high arches and need support now that I’m in my 40s.
Trish
Sketchers has really cute black loafer-sneakers.
Squeak
If this helps at all, Top Golf is like the golf/driving range equivalent of bowling to me. I think business casual with an eye towards comfort and movement will be your best bet. Definitely no heels – nice sneakers would be best for participation but if you’re only going to swing a couple of times, I think a loafer would work as well.
Anonymous
I agree. Top Golf is the equivalent of bowling.
Anonymous
Absolutely do not under any circumstances wear golf cloths to Top Golf. You will look ridiculous. Black stretchy-ish ankle trousers and a comfortable top you a can swing your arms in and a cute cardigan will work.
Anon
what’s your favorite news source without a paywall? what news sources do you pay for?
Chl
I pay for NYTimes, Wall Street journal and the crains in my city. Then we also donate to NPR.
Anon
My library has free NYT access that I can “check out” every day. No limit on users.
Ribena
Without a paywall – the guardian. I pay for the New Statesman and the NY Times (I’m in the U.K.).
Lutheran wool socks
+ the guardian
Anonymous
+1 for The Guardian.
BBC, and my non-English speaking country’s equivalent.
Anon
CNN for no paywall. I don’t actually pay for anything but I have access to most of NYT online via my university employer and WaPo via my MIL’s subscription.
Anon
Pay for: WSJ
Read: DM, NY Post
Anon
Free: NPR, Vox
Pay: Washington Post, Atlantic
and I get the NYT through work
Anonymous
My three of my good friends work for The Atlantic, NYT and WaPo so thank you on their behalf for subscribing!
–The only business professional in a friend group of journalists. :)
Anonymous
In NYC. Pay for NYT. Free: Gothamist (although can’t stand their website redesign) and NPR.
Anon
Local public radio station, but I give them a monthly donation too. News isn’t free to produce so I don’t mind paying for it.
H13
I use my local library for free access to online outlets including WSJ, NYT, and Washington Post. Our libraries are an amazing resource! Note: I pay for a NYT games subscription.
anon
I pay for the SF Chronicle. I get a free Washington Post subscription through a professional affiliation, I don’t know if I would pay for it. My hyperlocal outlet Berkeleyside is paywall free but I give a monthly donation, they are a fantastic outlet.
Anon
NPR for free, and pay for NYT
Anon
I pay for NYT and my husband pays for the SF Chronicle. I also subscribe to Vanity Fair but not exactly news, sort of current events I guess.
I admit that I like the NYT puzzles and cooking as much if not more than the news content.
Classic
We pay for the NYT. And I try to listen to the free NYT radio show/podcast every day – The Daily
For free, I listen to my favorite NPR stations: WNYC, WGBH + WCAI (Boston) WFMT (Chicago) KQED (SF)
Anonymous
The Guardian newspaper.
Anon
Did anyone see that there is now Harry’s Bitter beer on offer now, either somewhere in London or Sussex? Well done, to whomever thought that up.
Ribena
Ew, that’s so mean “it’s as weak as its namesake.”
If you can’t say anything nice, keep your mouth shut.
Anon
They have a point.
Anonymous
I mean ok but Harry also could have. I’m generally on his and Meghan’s side but this is classic British humor love it
Anon
The same goes for Harry, no? He shouldn’t dish it out if he can’t take it.
Lily
LOL @ Harry being “weak.” I see it completely the opposite. He’s the only one since his mom who has had the b*lls to stand up to the institution and GTFO.
Honestly from a US perspective, the British press (and public to the extent they hate on Meghan) is pathetic and the whole British commentariat just comes off as desperately insecure when they lambast Harry. Meanwhile he and Meghan are living on an estate that looks like heaven on earth in beautiful Santa Barbara, away from the miserable weather and hordes of barbaric press in London. And they are still highlighting worthy causes, same as they were doing in the UK. The royal family is becoming increasingly boring and irrelevant since they left and the Queen passed.
Anonymous
The majority of the royal family are not working royals, including all of Harry’s cousins, and they have regular jobs, and many of them live or have lived outside of the UK. Princess Eugenie has lived in NY and Portugal.
Anon
That is what makes me crazy. There is plenty of precedent for stepping away and living a relatively private life if that is what they wanted to do. At least initially that was not what they wanted (and it does not seem to be what they want now).
What they could not do was be half and half. If you are a working royal and representing the monarchy (and by extension the UK government) you have to follow the rules. (Which includes BTW being polite to people you despise and even hosting them for official events.)
But then I have taken everything they have said with a grain of salt ever since she suggested that her children were not given royal titles at birth due to racism and he sat there and nodded. That law has been in place since 1917 and if she did not know that, he should have.
former royalist
Meghan was actually correct about the law in question – the George V convention / 1917 Letters Patent meant that when QEII died and Charles became king, Harry and Meghan’s children would be prince and princess because the monarch would be their paternal grandfather. The point was that they wanted to change that convention starting with Harry’s children so that only the grandchildren through the future monarch/heir got that title. Hardly surprising considering Charles’ well documented desire for a streamlined monarchy. Many would argue that the optics of doing this for the first mixed-race royal child would warrant reconsidering that or delaying that change to the next generation (after all Charles only had kids vs. QEII’s 4 so it’s only 2 more prince/princesses vs. 4-6 more). I don’t have an opinion either way on that, nor do I know what Charles’s true motivation for desiring this was. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a combination of both wanting to have a streamlined monarchy and some racism (conscious or subconscious). The royal family does have a dodgy track record on race, after all. I’ve spent significant time in both the UK and US and from my perspective, race is handled differently in both places but racism is still a part of both countries’ attitudes and institutions. This fact also doesn’t mean that everything Harry and Meaghan decide is right or deserves public support, but targets of racism shouldn’t need to be perfect for us to consider the role of race in how they are treated.
Anon @ 3:32
To former royalist – I do not disagree with you except that the interview where she said that was before the Queen died. At that time, they were NOT entitled to the titles under existing law.
Generally I agree that now that Charles is King, he should give the parents the option of allowing the children to use the titles (and then leave it up to the kids once they are adults). However, I cannot really blame him for wanting to see what the Netflix special says as well as what Harry puts in his memoirs. Harry and Meghan really should not be allowed to have it both ways!
Anon
I’m American and I find both Meghan and Harry insufferable (and I think he’s extremely dumb). I think they probably have a point that the family is rude and racist. Certainly the institution is. But they’ve gone on and on and on and on in just about every medium conceiveable (books, podcasts, print interviews, TV interviews, now the “documentary”…) about how badly they were treated, it’s like we get it, please shut up. And it’s laughable that they say they want privacy. I would totally respect their desire to live away from the public eye and the paparazzi and to protect their children from it. But this isn’t privacy – they clearly want celebrity and to be rich and famous on their own terms and it feels really desperate and hypocritical.
A
Sure they could leave the monarchy. But they wanted to continue getting paid for doing nothing, or at best, doing a half assed job. I’m a WOC. And I think they wanted the best of both worlds.
Anonie
+1
Anonie
Making fun of a man for supporting his wife is immature at best and misogynistic worst.
Anon
+100000
Anon
I would like Harry and Meghan to go away because I’m tired of hearing about it, and thus would prefer that people ignored them. This only keeps the whole thing going.
Anon
I pulled up Netflix for the first time in a week over the weekend and went straight to Derry Girls. Does that help?
Anon
Speaking of the Harry and Meghan. Did anyone see that article from Jeremy Clarkson? He’s proving their point for them. He seriously compared her to a serial killer and said he wishes she would walk down the street so that people could throw human excrement at her. Of course, no real apology after he was called out. And the RF is also proving their point. Camilla hosted a lunch last week and both Jeremy Clarkson and Piers Morgan attended. If someone said such horrible things about my stepson’s wife — or any family member of mine actually — I sure wouldn’t be inviting them to my cozy holiday lunch. I don’t agree with H & M telling their side of the story sooo many times (and for profit each time) but it’s hard to refute their claims. The RF indirectly supports the misogynistic and racist attacks on Meghan — and even directly provides some of the content — in exchange for the press laying off Will/Kate, Andrew and other senior royals. They were right to leave and not put up with it anymore. Especially with little biracial kids in the picture now (one of whom was already depicted as a monkey).
Anonymous
Camilla did not host the lunch. That was just shoddy reporting. It was a private lunch hosted by somebody else that she attended. We don’t know if she even knew they were on the guest list.
NancyDrew
If you think Camilla isn’t given the guest list of every single event she attends in advance, you’ve clearly never worked for anyone influential. LOL.
Anon
The lunch was on Wed 14th and the column was published on Sat 17th though. The lunch wasn’t hosted by Camilla either, she was just an attendee.
Seriously?
Everywhere I’ve read said that she hosted the lunch (like in the Independent). And even if she didn’t, I’m sure her office would know and screen everyone who was attending. Both of those men have said and printed vile things about Meghan for years. Piers was literally fired over it. So the fact that this particular column didn’t come out until a few days after this lunch is not an excuse. Do better.
Anonymous
Yes seriously. Seriously she did not host the lunch. And no her office does not demand to know every attendee at other people’s private parties.
You do better. Read better. Think better.
Anon
The press publishing that does support what H&M said about the press.
Monday
I wasn’t going to start my own thread, but I did finish the Netflix H&M series while sick over the weekend. Again, *please skip if you’re tired of this!*
I was watching as a royal hater, and I actually gained some sympathy for them (starting from fairly little). I hadn’t known all the details about how royals press coverage works, and I think it’s convincing that the palace basically hung them out to dry when it became clear they weren’t playing along. It looks like H&M don’t think there’s any salvaging their relationships with Charles or Will, based on how they were discussed. So that’s rough.
I think it was overblown for them to claim (implicitly, through talking heads) that Meghan marrying into the family was some kind of resolution to colonialism. Talk about a band-aid on a gaping wound. That said, I think it’s safe to say that the BRF and tabloids failed at the task of welcoming a person of color into the institution. They showed its ongoing racism and lack of flexibility (no surprise). I can imagine that if someone really believed in the monarchy and had expected better from it, this would be really painful.
I do still think H&M have jumped the shark as public figures. If I could advise them, I’d say they should each get jobs and stop talking about themselves for a while. I’d also advise giving up their titles, along with everyone else! But some narcissism and privilege are definitely in the mix along with the above legitimate complaints.
Anon
I agree with this take. Like everything, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle and two things can be true at the same time.
Anon
They should definitely stop talking about their experience bc it’s beating a dead horse. I also blame H a lot for not properly preparing Meghan for everything even the curtesy! Couldn’t he have had one of his female cousins help Meghan with all that? I know they don’t have official Princess classes but someone should have taken her under their wing and helped and that was 100% Harry’s responsibility and he royally failed at that!
Anon
So much this. And so much of what Meghan complains of (I was suicidal and no one helped) can really be laid at the feet of Harry.
Monday
Yes, he basically admitted that, which surprised me! How do you come back from that in a marriage? (This comes back to my amazement at the idea of an equal partnership between someone with a divine right, and a commoner. It seems like he had some baseline understanding that his needs were automatically more important than hers when push really came to shove.)
Anon
“I think it was overblown for them to claim (implicitly, through talking heads) that Meghan marrying into the family was some kind of resolution to colonialism. Talk about a band-aid on a gaping wound.”
This is part of what is turning me against her when previously I had a neutral-to-mildly-positive perception. I think it was either staggeringly arrogant or staggeringly naive to think that a family that had benefited hugely from colonialism and white supremacy – across centuries! – would A. see her joining the family as some kind of conciliatory gesture toward acknowledging the legacy of British colonialism and B. welcome her with open arms and set all of their prejudices aside immediately. I just don’t understand how any reasonably intelligent person could believe either of those things were likely to happen. If the British royal family wants to make conciliatory gestures toward colonized peoples, they could start by A. just acknowledging that colonialism was bad and B. divest at least some of their wealth (they’ve got plenty) and give substantial amounts of money to the places in the world that are still substantially harmed by British colonization. If all they had done was welcome Meghan into the family with open arms, that’s not even a drop in the bucket of what really should be done to deal with the legacy of British colonialism (which was either driven by, or supported by, the British royal family) across the globe. And I think that it’s somewhat narcissistic of her to think she was going to be the bridge between the colonialist past of the family and the anti-colonialist future, all on her own, and do that within a mere couple of years of joining the family. Like I said, staggeringly arrogant, or staggeringly naive. Maybe both.
End of the day the British royal family should not exist and the sooner they all go away, the better. The right thing to do when Elizabeth died would have been for Britain to dismantle the monarchy and send the entire family off to their vast estates to live out the rest of their days in benign, doddering obsolescence. But the family sells tabloids and tea-towels, so here we are.
Anonymous
The bit about British colonialism seems like complete revisionist history. when exactly did MM become sensitive to that issue? Recently, when she was developing her storyline, I suspect. I can’t even make it make sense.
Anon
I notice H&M are not giving up the tens of millions of dollars Harry inherited from his colonialist ancestors.
Anon
I just want to know where the bullying of staff comes in, because that seems like the missing piece in the media coverage – they only brought it up in the context of the timing before the Oprah interview as a gotcha, but I just saw an article in The Times where the reporter who broke that story was like “…yes, as I specifically stated in the story, the staff wanted their side out there before Harry and Meghan go on Oprah and try to distort the facts and say the palace did nothing, when all the employees did was try to put out fires they were setting.” I thought it was a glaring omission that they never refuted the bullying claims in the show. From my perspective, I actually have some sympathy for Meghan in that its obvious she was under a ton of stress and hurt people hurt people, but I also think that the more likely story is that the communications staff in charge of dealing with the press got tired of doing so for people who were treating them poorly.
Monday
I never knew much about the bullying claims, but I wonder (without much info) if her behavior was pretty standard for a celebrity under pressure–probably throwing fits and being rude and impatient with staff–and it was one of those things that you can get away with as a senior white man, but not as a younger woman of color who is new to the organization.
Anon
I get the feeling that Harry is the same way, if not worse. I remember some Tiara drama pre-wedding that Harry had a hand in.
Anon
I don’t think there was any conclusion there was bullying. The “investigation” was clearly retaliatory
Anon
Did they ever provide any details at all about that bullying scandal? I guess the staff got their story out but I have no idea what their story even was. My half-hearted googling is turning up nothing.
Anon
This was the initial story https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nothing-was-ever-good-enough-meghan-left-staff-shaking-with-fear-hb37gbvn8, with emails staff provided to the reporter from relatively early on in her time as a working royal saying things like they felt terrified and nauseous preparing to have conversations with her about things she wouldn’t like, and using the word bullies to describe both Harry and Meghan. The timing is interesting because in the Netflix show Harry and Meghan suggest that the South Pacific tour is when things changed because they were so popular (despite no polling showing they were ever the most popular members of the family), whereas these emails suggest that the Australia tour was when relations were at a breaking point with staff. This article https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-aides-reveal-meghan-bullying-claim-before-oprah-interview-7sxfvd2c3 goes into more detail about the official complaint made about Meghan bullying staff out of their positions, made by the same employee they lambast in the show for providing evidence in her court case against the Daily Mail. (They don’t discuss that his relevant emails showed she was lying to the court about leaking information to reporters, for which she had to apologize. The Atlantic review of the show discusses this and I think links to relevant articles.) There aren’t details about most of the specific complaints, presumably because specific incidents would identify the staff who are under NDAs, though the article does mention one staffer who left by name.
Meghan’s lawyer, who was interviewed in the Netflix show, responded to the emails from adult employees describing their experiences and in some cases leaving their prestigious jobs entirely by comparing them to her seven year old daughter saying her mom was a bully for asking her to brush her teeth, and saying that bullying is only if the bad behavior is “deliberate” and “repeated.” https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/casual-claims-of-bullying-are-very-damaging-says-meghans-lawyer-nvp8z9mwh. There also seems to continue to be reports of their current Archewell staff leaving after not long fairly regularly. I find it very uncomfortable how comfortable they are dismissing their staff’s experiences and never once acknowledging that they might have perpetuated harm on those below them on the totem pole, since they seem to see themselves as the only ones who have suffered harm. To be clear, I think they have! But no one is a victim in every single situation they have ever found themselves in.
(All links are behind paywalls but I didn’t want to link to tabloids!)
Anonymous
The staff turnover at Archewell and at their office in the palace seems unusually high: https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1416626/meghan-markle-prince-harry-archewell-staff-royal-family-catherine-st-laurent-spt/amp . https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sussex-survivors-club-key-figures-23611991.amp
Anon
As an employment attorney, I read the investigation as being SOP for a workplace bullying allegations (because at the end of the day, Palace staff are just that – employees).
Anon
I have so many thoughts! I thought Harry came across well overall — well intentioned, and committed to being a good husband. I thought Megan’s mocking of the monarchy were ridiculous (especially the part about not knowing how to curtsy). I mean I feel that way about the monarchy but I also wouldn’t have married a prince. About the color of the clothing — shouldn’t the staff coordinate on this? If they didn’t with her staff – shouldn’t she have gotten to the bottom of why? And, why wouldn’t she have hired a royal protocol expert to brief her and guide her? Isn’t that what ladies in waiting are supposed to do? I’m still more sympathetic to them than to Will and Charles but I don’t think she did herself any favors.
Anonymous
She was given options for assistance and guidance but turned it down. https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/royals/meghan-markle-given-dossier-on-being-a-duchess/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/royals/meghan-markle-made-clear-didnt-28603106.amp
Anon
I realize you’re seeing what you want to see, but she was mocking herself – self-deprecating humor about how bad her curtsy was. It was in the story about their dating being a whirlwind & meeting Harry’s grandmother with little notice.
Anon
So let me get this straight. You feel sorry for colonialists and think those descended from the colonized shouldn’t talk about it because it’s salt in the wound? Who exactly was wounded here?
Monday
No, as I said I am a royals hater and won’t defend any of them. The wounded of colonialism is felt any time racism is felt, but the people who got nothing in any of this are those still living under the direct results of colonization.
Anon
The whole thing about the different press houses and the family feeding the media negative news stories about other royals to distract from their own issues was wild. How could you have a functional relationship when that happens? It must feel like quite the betrayal to have your family be used as a distraction from William having an affair or Uncle Pedo’s lawsuit woes. And you know it would have eventually happened to the kids, too.
After that Oprah interview they conveniently had that Meghan Markle bullying story queued up. I wasn’t really following it but I remember one of the claims was really strange, like she was bullying people because she sent some emails in the middle of the night. How do you have a nice Christmas dinner when you know your relatives have a bunch of things like that ready to go?
Anon
They don’t seem to have a problem with Andrew – the only member of the royal family pictured with Harry in the show is his daughter Eugenie, and they mention having lunch at his house (Royal Lodge) with the queen. Even when Harry was tricked into talking (twice!) to fake Greta Thunberg, he declined to say anything bad about Andrew, who is his godfather, actually. He did joke about marrying Prince George off to Greta, though. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, that Harry.
I remain unconvinced about the William affair, only because if the story is that British outlets agreed not to publish anything about it in exchange for Meghan stories, 1) there’s no way anything they published about Meghan’s private jet usage or baby shower was anywhere near as lucrative as a story about the future king having an affair and 2) what’s stopping literally any other news outlet? British media agreed not to publish Harry’s location in Afghanistan and then it was reported by the Drudge Report.
Anon
I see Jeremy Clarkson is alive and well and on this s1te this morning. Keep on keeping it classy ladies, but never, ever lecture us again about supporting other women.
Monday
This is responding to a comment that was making fun of Harry, via the beer. But if it was intended for me, I don’t believe in “supporting other women” as a goal in itself, so no such lecture is forthcoming!
Anon
Really, really tired of the idea that we as women must “support other women” at all times, in all circumstances, no matter what they’ve done or said or how right or wrong they may be. I am certainly not going to support Candace Owens, or Tomi Lahren, just because they’re women.
Anon
I can condemn what Clarkson said, which was reprehensible, and still express doubts about what Meghan and Harry are doing with their continuous Airing of Grievances. I do not have to support Meghan to condemn Clarkson, and implying that this is a situation where “either you or with her or you are against her” is reductionist, ludicrous on its face, and frankly, makes you seem like a crazy stan. I’m sorry you cannot see that Meghan has done some good things and some very questionable things and is probably neither a saint nor a horrible person, but an average person like the rest of us, who is doing a middling-to-not-great job of handling the very weird and challenging situation she’s in.
Anon
I don’t think anyone is supporting Jeremy Clarkson here. A few people here have defended Camilla from allegations that she’s somehow bullying Meghan by attending an event that was also attended by Clarkson before his column was even published.
Anon
I wonder how his book will be. Oprah, 6 hours on Netflix, and you still have 400+ pages of material and you’re not even 40. Eeesh.
Vicky Austin
This is where I’m at. How much more can there possibly be to say? How much more straight-setting does the record need? Plus, isn’t it a three-book deal?!
Monday
I would be much more interested in the books (or any of this) if they were coming out like 10+ years after the events involved. When I think about major dust-ups I’ve had within my career or my family–let alone if they were combined!–I definitely could not speak of them coolly or with perspective until much, much later than this. I get the sense that they’re still at ground zero emotionally.
Vicky Austin
One hundred percent agree. The books/the documentary are still PART of the dust-up.
Work question
What do you do if the person at work that you need to respond is not, and therefore you can’t proceed with the task?
I work in Healthcare quality (not a lawyer) and was tasked with scheduling a training for others. However the individual that can conduct the training has responded once, but has been MIA since then despite 2 follow up attempts. They are not on PTO from what I can tell. We are in completely different departments. This task has been on my plate since Halloween… which makes me feel like I am slacking despite not being able to proceed without the trainer responding. WWYD
Anon
Can you call them, if you haven’t already?
Classic
+1
OOO
Follow up again and CC their boss
Anon
I’d be a little careful here. It sounds like an ask from your department that another may not prioritize. I’d check in one more time with the person directly and if no response, fill your boss in on the issue. It could be a level up negotiation as doing “training” is actually a big lift for the person asked to provide it.
pugsnbourbon
+1 to anon at 10:47. I imagine OP has let their boss know about this but check in with them again. The other person’s department could be actively on fire and this training isn’t high on their list.
Liza
Is there a date by which the training needs to be completed, such as by EOY? If not, I’d let it go until January, then follow up in January. If you’re worried about your manager thinking you’re a slacker, copy them so they can see you are being proactive.
You might also mention this to your manager in your 1:1, not as an excuse, but just to get their thoughts on whether there’s another approach that might work better – another person to reach out to or just putting something on the calendar and asking the person for confirmation rather than to come up with dates.
Anonymous
There is no deadline. Thanks for the suggestions
Anonymous
Try calling if email. hasn’t worked.
Can you recommend a date for the training to them? Or let me know by X date if Y date works for you? (Then start pestering “just a reminder that by X date, we’ll need to know if Y date or another option works for you.” Sometimes giving folks something to respond to versus leaving it open helps get things moving. After a few more of those sorts of notes, then a “Can you confirm for me that my emails are reaching you? Hate to be a pest. If I should be reaching out to someone else or coordinating an alternate with (boss), please let me know.”
Anon
Call, email, etc. If you don’t get a response ask their boss who handles it – maybe that person has moved on.
dear reader
If you haven’t called, you need to start calling. When you get them on the phone and they say they need to get back to you, ask when you can expect to hear back from them so you know when to look for it. This is a good way to informally assign a due date. After you get off the phone make a note for yourself with the time of the call and the followup action. You’ve got yourself a paper trail and a way forward.
Anon
I finished writing a novel last night! Like, I’ve edited it several times and it feels like it’s in a good place :) It’s kind of wild that I came up with an actual mystery that had a beginning, middle, and end.
Just wanted to share my excitement!
Ribena
Congratulations!!! Keep us updated with how querying goes
Anon
The thought of all that rejection at this point makes me anxious, so I’m going to work on building my inner reserves over the next month before I give it a final read-over and send her out!
What car?
Congrats!!!!
Anon
Congrats!!!!! So cool!!!!!
Lutheran wool socks
congratulations, this is a big accomplishment
Anon8
Ah that’s amazing!!!
Curious
That’s amazing!
Vicky Austin
Congratulations! And a mystery?! Dang, that’s impressive!
pugsnbourbon
Oh that’s amazing, what an accomplishment! Well done!
anon
Congrats! Very cool!
Senior Attorney
Woo hoo! That’s wonderful — congratulations!!
Mrs. Jones
I am very impressed!
anon
Congratulations, that is huge!!!
Anonymous
Wanted to thank everyone for the tree trimming party ideas! In the end, a great time was had by all, especially me. A giant cheese plate and pretzel nugget app that someone brought were more than enough food until the pizza guy showed up with five pizzas and it looked like the opening scene in home alone with kids running everywhere. I bought a bunch of mini treats from Trader Joe’s and just piled them in a bunch of cake plates until it looked pretty. I highly recommend this for a fun easy party. Happy holidays!
anon
This sounds so fun and cozy! I missed the initial thread, can you tell us more about the party? How many people, did they actually help put up ornaments, were there other activities? We just moved into a house and can finally host, so I would love the details for next year. Cheers!
Anonymous
My six year old went to daycare with a really nice group of kids and the parents are still friendly. One family is Jewish and the mom said she’d love to help decorate a tree so the idea came from that. We had twelve adults and twelve kids plus our two kids and my husband and I. I bought a ton of shatter resistant ornaments from target and put them near the tree in big boxes. Everyone helped decorate and also the children ran around the whole house. We served sparkling wine cocktails which all
the moms loved and all the men drank scotch and beer. We bought reindeer headbands and Santa hats and got about a million cute pictures of all twelve kids wearing them in front of the tree. Everyone had pizza around the island in the kitchen and the whole thing was a chaotic fun time. We started at six on Friday and everyone was gone by 9:30. other than throwing out the pizza boxes and doing a dishwasher load of glasses, clean up was easy. It was a blast though and the tree looks great!
Anon
Well, I deleted my Twitter last night, thereby completing my social media withdrawal. I dropped FB 3 years ago, IG shortly after, and don’t have anything else. I was a serious power user of social media, especially Twitter, for a long time, so this is the end of a pretty significant transition for me. It does feel weird to be completely out of the social media loop but I suspect I won’t miss that much.
Anybody else who’s completely dropped social media?
anon
I’ve never been on Twitter or IG. I quit FB in 2018. I’m weirdly on Tumblr as a long-time Livejournal migrator and enjoy the sh!tposting randomness that is that site.
OOO
I dropped social media on a similar timeline as you, and never looked back. I have so much more time, and I am happier
anon
I admire you. I know social media isn’t great for me, but I can’t seem to kick it completely. I also need to be somewhat knowledgeable about SM trends for work reasons, which makes it harder to give up. I am using twitter VERY infrequently these days. IG is my biggest time sink.
Anon
I got into Twitter when I was working in media, so it’s definitely hard to disconnect when you need them for work. That one was hard to let go off but I realized I didn’t like how I felt when I was using it.
Anon
I don’t use Twitter (only used it for checking waiting times on intl airports during this summer, which was helpful for overall holiday planning).
My facebook has been dead for ages, I haven’t posted in years.
I do use IG – for work and for personal purposes. It’s a great source of travel and photography inspo for me. Plus I share pics from my travels.
Anon
I wanted to before COVID, but in my city, FB is the best way to get the constantly updated info on the two schools my kids are in (not very profesh, IMO, but it is what it is at this point).
Anon
I must be the odd one out because I’m just not bothered by it at all. I love looking at pretty things on Instagram and that’s also how I find out about a lot of local events. I’m an occasional poster but mostly viewer. Facebook is just where I go to give things away and have a mindless scroll while I wonder about the people who post there. I never like Twitter and don’t use that. I just don’t get the extreme reaction to social media. Could it be all consuming? I guess, but it’s also really easy to moderate and enjoy.
anon
I don’t think it’s easy for everyone to moderate. The apps are literally made to be addictive! I know that once I start scrolling, it’s pretty hard for me to stop, even with screentime limits.
Vicky Austin
I use Twitter and Facebook on browser only, and they’re so made for the apps now that it honestly doesn’t work quite as well to snare the brain for long periods of time. I think Instagram is intentionally browser-disabled (and I do waste WAY too much time on it, but I do also find out about local stuff there too).
I draw the line at TikTok.
Curious
I use Instagram on my browser! There’s just some functionality not available.
Vicky Austin
oh nice! I did that for a while in 2019ish, I think; maybe I’ll go back to it!
Anon
They’re actually intentionally designed to not be easy to moderate, and for many people they very much aren’t. I realized that I’m one of those people.
I also didn’t want to be the product. Even if I wasn’t posting, the companies were analyzing what I looked at, and marketing that information about me to others. I feel like I’ve opted out of an entire information ecosystem, and that feels good.
Sybil
I’m the same – I’m perfectly happy with my social media usage. I did just quit Twitter, but I was never much of a user. I’m annoyed with how Facebook and Instagram keep throwing suggested posts/accounts at me, but that’s about it. I have carefully cultivated lists for both, hide and remove where appropriate, and enjoy my experience.
Anon
I have the same experience. I have an IG account on which I never post but I use to look at dogs and other things that bring me joy (and a little bit for work) and FB on which I post very occasionally but which I enjoy for photos of peoples’ kids and a few community groups (Buy Nothing, our local civic association, “Real House Dogs of . . .”) I probably visit them once a day or so for less than 15 minutes.
I just started on Mastadon for a few accounts I previously followed on Twitter (and as an aside this is my plug for Auschwitz Memorial Foundation’s account). I keeping my Twitter account because it is the best source for information about natural disasters (I follow all of the relevant agencies). It is also a good source for breaking news outside the US as long as you source your feed properly. Otherwise, I am working on finding alternatives (mostly Mastadon and Post) for the accounts I followed there.
I have very carefully curated feeds and promptly unfollow and block anyone who annoys or offends me. Other than occasionally going down the “reels” rabbit hole on IG (mostly pets and comedy) social media is a fun and sometimes educational part of my life. But I gather from this site that many people have a very different experience.
Anonymous
I am still a big consumer of social media but I feel like I use it in an odd way. I very rarely post on my own page. Instead, on FB for example, I use it to connect with groups of like minded people – hobbies, items I collect, local BST pages, etc. I feel like I rarely pay attention to the “front page” so to speak and head right to a group. Some days it might be a vintage Pyrex page, some days a Christmas decor group, maybe a Rothy’s BST, or even a remodeling group when I am planning my next house project.
Anon
I only use Facebook to keep up with a couple of elderly relatives who are still on there and post every couple of days about what they’re up to. A couple of my friends are still using it to post but it seems like everyone else is just lurking (as I do).
I have Instagram because that’s how I find out where the cool bands are playing in town and which food truck is at which brewery on which day. I also use it to follow local artists so we find out about gallery openings, open studios, and shows/sales, and I follow our local museums so know what’s happening with them. I only follow local accounts, no news accounts or celebrities or anything. None of my friends are on there any more (or if they are, they aren’t posting). None of our favorite restaurants, bars, bands or shops are on anything but Instagram any more – they abandoned Facebook entirely – so if we want to know what’s going on locally, it’s all about Instagram. But it’s a totally different experience for me, just focusing on local stuff vs. getting caught up in all the huge celeb accounts or following news accounts. I hardly ever post on Instagram, I just follow.
I was never on Twitter, but if I was, I would have quit by now. And would encourage anyone who is thinking about quitting Twitter to just quit.
Curious
Amusingly, by far my biggest social media addiction is this s!te. The rest I just use deliberately in browser for a purpose (which is sometimes mindless relaxation, tbh, but mostly BuyNothing and cancer survivorship stuff), and it’s fine.
Anonymous
+1
No Face
I withdrew FB and Twitter. I like just being blissfully unaware of Twitter drama.
I added reddit though. I like checking on specific subs, so there’s no reason to scroll for hours.
Vicky Austin
I’ve really come to enjoy Reddit this year; I check out the things I’m interested in and tune out everything else.
Anon
I dropped twitter a decade ago, and Instagram a year ago. I am not sure about giving up facebook though because it is the only way a lot of my family members stay in touch, and I need access to the local neighborhood groups. However, I’ve discovered I really like Tik Tok. I don’t post, and I don’t follow anyone I know IRL. I don’t think it does to my mental health what the others were doing so I’m still going to use that.
Anon
I’ve been off of it for a long time! I was afraid I would get left out of stuff but actually people reach out to me to ask if I’m going to an event so I still hear about things, and I spend my phone time on texting/emailing friends directly than consuming content from prolific posters. I don’t miss it at all!
I do still come here a lot… that’s a harder addiction to quit :)
Anon
Facebook and Twitter have been relatively easy for me to drop, but Instagram really has its hooks in me. I’ve deleted and re-downloaded the app more times than I can count at this point. If I could just see what my friends post without getting sucked into the explore page, my use of it would be so much healthier.
Anon
I have mostly dropped it. I don’t really post but I do follow some friends to see what they’re up to. And my dog has an IG.
NYNY
Twitter is my only vice (if this s!te doesn’t count!). Never joined Fb or insta, enjoy the tiktok videos I see via twitter, but don’t want to fall down that rabbit hole. The drama is alternately entertaining and exhausting, but I’ve always loved that Twitter was about writing and ideas. I’ve learned so much from my feed there, and I’m sad to watch it being destroyed by a narcissist monster. I’ve been accepted at Post, but haven’t had the time to set up my account yet. Maybe I’ll end up off social entirely?
Anonymous
I have one direct report, and we have a (FT, paid) intern that reports to her. So I’m sort of the intern’s grandboss. The intern just presented me with a small Christmas gift. I don’t believe in gifting up and don’t usually gift down much either – we work at an arts nonprofit and it doesn’t have a gifty culture. I do periodically take the intern and my direct report out to lunch, typically 3x a year at the end of each intern’s time here, and our department head just took us all out to lunch as a holiday gift/thank you. Do I have to get the intern something now, and if so, what? He’s in his early 20s, does not celebrate Christmas (he’s from China, which may be relevant context re: gift etiquette I think). He brings in treats for the department a lot, so I think he may just be into giving people things.
Anon
I had a boss once who kept a stash of Godiva chocolates and Starbucks coffee for these situations. If someone gave her an unexpected gift, she’d give one of each to that person with a nice handwritten note. She felt it was nice enough to feel like a gift, but generic enough that most people would like it. And it’s not so extravagant that it makes the receiver uncomfortable. If you’re not into those brands, I think you could swap out brands that feel special to you.
anon
That’s a smart idea. Otherwise, I’d maybe bring in treats from a local bakery for the whole group or something.
anon
My dad was a minister, and people from our church would sometimes drop by around the holidays with an unexpected gift. My mom had a decorative trunk near the front door, and she stocked it with generic gifts during the holidays. When someone gave us an unexpected gift, Mom would just pull one out and act like it was meant for them all along. At least by the time I was old enough to remember (when my dad had been a minister for at least 15 years), she pulled it off perfectly.
Anon
Depends on how small – what was the gift? Anything value over $5 or $10 I might return (if culturally appropriate) and let him know that typically gifting to bosses is not expected here and often not allowed.
Anon
I can’t imagine anything more mortifying to a young intern, especially one from a foreign country. Please don’t return it to them.
Vicky Austin
+1 I wouldn’t do this unless you legally can’t accept it for some reason.
I always appreciate perspective on gift-giving norms here, but even if someone got it wrong, I would never, ever give a gift back to the giver. It’s a fait accompli by then, even if it’s a flub.
Anon
+2 – don’t embarrass the poor kid
Anonymous
Gross. Do NOT do this.
Anon
In this situation, I’ve just said a sincere thank you. It’s going to happen and I’ve found a pretend “I have something for you too” to be very awkward. If you’re not a gifting culture, no need to start something and perpetuate the circle of awkward. If you were, I’d say include the intern in whatever you’re getting the team.
Anonymous
Update – he apparently got something for everyone in the department (approx 15 people), which is very sweet, and also makes it less gifting up and more just widespread gifting. I’m guessing all gifts were under approx. $10 each. Mine is a cute plant pot, because I have plants.
Anon
It sounds really well-intentioned and thoughtful, if a little clueless. I’d just thank him and leave it at that.
anon
Maybe he is excited to participate in this American tradition of the holidays. I’d write him a thank you card and leave it at that.
Trish
Maybe his mother told him that he really should give everyone gifts for Christmas!
Adopt A Family Meal Help
We’ve been assigned to a family as part of a local holiday “adopt a family” program. This year we have a family of 4 – 2 adults, one teen, one kid between 5 and 12 years old.
I’ve always been assigned a family at Thanksgiving to providing a meal for but this year we were assigned a family at Christmas (it’s run by a Christian church in town so we’re told to assume Christmas, before you ask..). Typically everything goes in one or two large plastic storage type crates. Tgiving food is clearly much more prescribed/obvious so I’m not totally sure what to include this year. We can’t do dairy, anything that needs to be refrigerated immediately or alcohol, but generally perishable foods are ok. We’re also to include a gift card to the local grocery store for the main course that they pick out on their own, so I have that covered. I also usually get an outsized gift card to the grocery store so the family can buy any extras they want.
What would you include for food to go along with the gift card for the main and also not knowing what main course they’ll choose? Hoping to hit the grocery store and/or Target on the way home today before dropping this bin off at 8am on Wednesday. TIA!
Anon
Instant potatoes, jarred gravy, mac and cheese? I think those sides could be used all year round even if it doesn’t go with their Christmas dinner.
Anon
do you have to include food and can’t just give a much larger gift card? because this seems very tricky. but idk, potatoes, onions, veggie stock, cookie baking stuff – either the raw supplies or a mix and icing, non alcoholic cider, chocolate, jarred spices?
Anon
Stuffing
Jarred gravy
A box of chicken or veggie stock
Apples, oranges, other fruit that does not need refrigeration
Green beans (fresh)
Sweet potatoes or potatoes, esp if you can include a high quality vegetable peeler
Dessert: Ghirardelli brownie mix (if it can be made without dairy), pies, etc.
Nuts for snacking
If they get a ham instead of a turkey, they can save the gravy for later.
newlyanon
Think of things that can be used for the extended time off too since many families receive meals at school: cereal, apple sauce pouches, pb & bread, granola bars, fruit cups, soup with pop tops, ravioli in a can, mac & cheese, apples, bananas, clementines, etc.
Anon
Adding my vote for instant potatoes, jarred gravy, canned veggies, mac and cheese, and corn bread.
I’d also add a few of these fun extras if it fits in the budget
– Bagged cookie mix and decorating supplies
– Pie crust and canned filling
– Coffee cake or muffins from the bakery
– Minute maid orange juice and sparking grape juice, or hot chocolate packets and mini marshmallows
– Pre-sliced cheddar cheese squares, crackers, salami, and apples
anon
Is the food supposed to be prepared, or raw ingredients? I’d probably include dinner rolls, potatoes of some sort, a gravy mix (or my grocery store sells small jars of demiglace, which can be used as a sauce itself or a gravy base), some salad greens and dressing, green beans, maybe some pecans or walnuts to be added to a dish, maybe some Christmas-y fruit like tangerines or strawberries (they’re in season in Florida), a shelf-stable dessert, and some cookies. If they’ll get this before Christmas day, cinnamon rolls for Christmas morning.
Anon
I could use a pep talk.
I agreed to go see my mom and dad after Christmas (I’m flying out on Christmas Day, bringing my teen son with me, but my husband is staying home). I am already regretting it the trip, and it hasn’t even happened. My mom has OCD and bipolar disorder and is already spun up about all the trip details – what should she buy for us to eat, where on Earth are we going to eat for dinner on Christmas day (I told her ham sandwiches are fine), what on Earth are we going to do to keep Son entertained, etc. I agreed to go for two days and two nights because I honestly don’t feel like I can handle it for longer than that. I love my parents and I do want to check in on them – especially my dad, who has had some health challenges lately. But…ugh. This just feels like it’s going to be really a lot and I already feel tired/worn down from a busy time at work and trying to get ready for the holidays. My mom’s various anxieties have gotten worse as she’s gotten older and I know a large part of the trip is going to be trying to talk her down off of various ledges, and also hearing long stories about the health problems of various people I don’t know (or don’t remember) from our hometown. And, of course, listening to my parents bicker, which is their default mode of communication. And my slacker brother is coming over and I’ll probably get exhorted, yet again, to “help him out” by either giving him money or trying to help him get a job (been there, done that with both things; didn’t work). Help me, please? How do I reframe this for myself so I don’t ruin this week dreading the trip?
pugsnbourbon
Oh gosh, this is a lot. Both of my parents are very anxious (I come by it honestly) and it’s exhausting. Limiting your trip to two days was a great call. Can you plan something fun for after the trip? Then when you’re in the thick of it with your parents, you can remind yourself “in X hours I’ll be at Y spa/restaurant/experience having a great time.”
Anon
I have a spa certificate that I haven’t used and I was thinking about booking a day for myself when I get back, just because I’ll need it to decompress/gear up for going back to work. I think you just convinced me to book the appointment. Thanks!
Anon
Not exactly the same, but visit my in-laws is a nightmare. I build in things to look forward to. I stay at the nicest hotel I can find and that’s my reward for getting through a day. If I’m driving, I take premixed cocktails, homemade cookies, whatever feels great to consume regardless of health concerns and I have that at the end of a long day. I also treat myself to a new something to wear, shoes, bag, earrings, etc. By building in a reward for dealing system, it makes the visit itself slightly less bad.
Anon
I’m making tiramisu cookies this week – maybe I’ll make a double batch so I can bring some with me! Great suggestion on having a reward.
Anon
I have a similar trip scheduled to see my parents between Christmas and New Years. I’ll be taking my toddler and husband with. I wish I could skip this trip and just relax at home, but have similar feelings that it’ll be a stressful event. I know I’ll appreciate having visited it in the long term as my dad is in a decline with his health.
One thing that might be helpful, is your current plan to stay with at your parents? If you can swing it, I’d book at a hotel. I’d make a white lie about having hotel points to use up or something. I’m sure your teen would appreciate a break too at the end of the night. For me, if I know at the end of the day I can get in my car and go be in my own “space” where I can decompress, it’ll be a much better trip.
Anon
We are staying at a hotel as my parents live in a teeny-tiny condo (which I think contributes to their stress – they’re on top of each other all the time) and I knew staying with them wasn’t going to be viable. I booked a suite hotel where my son and I can have separate space from each other and have breakfast in the morning at the hotel without having to get up bright and early to get to my mom’s house (where breakfast is served at 6:30 a.m. on the dot, and if you miss it, too bad! That’s how it was when I lived at home also). I think you’re right, and having our own space will be a good way to make sure the pressure doesn’t get overwhelming.
Anon
“I know I’ll appreciate having visited it in the long term as my dad is in a decline with his health.”
I could honestly forgive myself for not going if I didn’t have serious concerns that my dad is coming to the end of his life, and there just aren’t going to be that many more opportunities to spend time with him. I know I will regret it if I don’t go, especially if something happens to him within a short period after the holidays. Good luck with your trip also
Liza
As someone who had to make much-dreaded trips to family as a kid, a few things that may help:
1. Count down the hours. Seriously. There’s something satisfying about waking up knowing you have 42 hours left in your visit, then by lunch you have only 38 left. It feels like real progress toward a goal (leaving), no matter how miserable those four hours were. It helps clarify that it will, in fact, be over soon. You could gamify it even more by telling yourself that after your visit, you’ll buy yourself a $48 treat, and each hour you get through is another $1 deposited in the “bank” toward your self-gift.
2. Try to step back and consider that this negative experience is part of experiencing the richness of life, or see your family as characters in a movie you’re watching. When they do something obnoxious or stress-inducing, try to think, “Wow, it’s so interesting and bizarre that someone would do XYZ. I would never do that and couldn’t have come up with it if I tried!”
3. Consider if it would help to allow yourself to voice honest reactions to things, such as, “Mom and Dad, your fighting is really awkward for everyone, can you stop?” Sometimes the relief of not having to grin and bear it helps a lot, even if it doesn’t actually change their behavior.
4. If you’re asked to help your brother, respond with something neutral that puts the onus on him to follow up (if he won’t). Ask to borrow money: let me think about it, can you send me your budget and all your expenses so I can see what’s going on? Ask to find a job: let me think about it, can you send me your updated resume?
5. Consider what you actually have to do. It may be that all you really have to do is sit in a chair. If your mom is freaking out anxious about what to feed everyone, that’s not necessarily your problem to solve. If she’s telling you annoying health anecdotes, all you physically have to do is sit there and listen. You don’t have to take on the emotional burden of caring, or probably even pretending to care – if your mom is like my stepmom, she has no ability nor desire to gauge other people’s reactions to her stories – she just wants to talk at them.
Another gamification technique: as your mom is telling you these stories, pretend you’re a journalist writing a human interest story. What details would you ask for that would make the story interesting or compelling to a general audience? What context would you need? In “writing” for your imaginary newspaper readers, you may actually be able to make the story interesting to yourself.
Annie Nominous
These are helpful tips. Thanks for sharing.
Anon
This is all so, so helpful. Thank you so much!
anon
All of this and go for walks. If there is a dog, use that as an excuse to take puppers with you. Tell them you want to show your son a lake, park, etc. and take him with you. Take any excuse to get away. Also, projects. Ask your dad if he needs help with anything around the house. One simple project could be three trips to Home Depot, quality time with dad, and the trip over in a flash.
anon
From my experience, people get calmer [and less self-centered] in nature, so I plan a walk in the woods with parents one day, a walk in the town to see what’s new and visit a park and a small castle in it on day 2, and a walk through vineyards on day 3. I visit 3-4x year and thanks to not having to sit at home and having some joint experience to talk about makes it better for me.
I would draw a hard line on supporting an adult brother. Money does not grow on trees for you either.
Vicky Austin
This is a lot for you, OP; be kind to yourself. Maybe make a point of offering to run errands for your parents to give yourself a break. Enlist your son (“I don’t want Grandma to spend our whole visit talking about things that make her anxious; will you be sure to ask if she wants to hear about [school/hobby/obsession]?”). And if you have to grit your teeth, grit your teeth!
Anon
It is great because you are going, especially because it sounds like your parents really need the visit. So pat yourself more on the back.
For people who are anxious (since I tend towards this), what can be great is to try to answer their questions. Calming her, will help you calm. Mom’s questions you list aren’t too bad, because it actually is helpful to know what you guys would like to eat, and deciding on Xmas dinner is a bigger deal for a lot of folks. This can help her anxiety going up to your visit. So make it easy for her. Tell her exactly what you would like (and probably you know what she really wants for herself so can tell her that too?), and offer to go on a quick shopping trip with her when you arrive so she doesn’t need to worry about it.
And if your parents are having health problems with aging… I can relate to your Mom even more, as I am the caregiver and I got little support day to day, week to week from other family. And it only gets harder as you get older….. Try to check in with how she is doing, and make sure she is seeing her doctors. It is incredibly difficult dealing with aging/illness/spouse’s illness if anxiety is not treated.
And practice before you go…. Breathing exercises 5/7/8…. that Sensory relaxation quick thing 5/4/3/2/1. They are the best. Even better… while you are there, teach your Mom!
My Mom had bipolar disease and just died. Your post brings up a lot of emotions with me.
anon
2 days is a good length. Think of it as “if I go now, I don’t have to go for XX more months/years/whatever.” I’d also not pander to mom’s anxiety. Let her send the texts and make the calls leading up to your departure – you don’t have to answer or respond. How is the teenager handling or otherwise readying? Does he have devices and all the stuff? What can you all plan as an outing? I’m less concerned about brother – exhausting, I’m sure, but you’ve beat this before it sounds like, so brace yourself for expected impact, and be prepared to just deflect and ignore.
You got this. And, just think – almost as soon as you’re settled in, you’ll get to check in for your return flight!
Senior Attorney
OMG when my parents were alive, every time I saw them I thought “okay, now we re-set the clock and I don’t have to see them again for X time…” Horrible, I know, but there you have it.
Good luck, OP!
Anon
I’m sure your son is also dreading this trip, so I agree with coming up with a “reward” afterwards to get you both through it.
Is he old enough to talk frankly with? Enlist him as your ally and brainstorm some ways to get through it together. Conversation topics one of you will bring up that the other will engage in, just to stop the anxiety spirals. Errands you need the other one to run to get a break out of the house. A mother/son trip to a store you know he likes, but they can stay home and take a break while you go let him wander around. A board game you have delivered to their house so you have something to do at night that isn’t watching a blaring TV. A project you can do together to “help” them while they relax, like organizing photos or cleaning the fridge or sorting through boxes in the attic.
And then I’d come up with two “traditions” that you can tell your parents that you’re starting. Maybe it’s root beer floats while watching White Christmas on Christmas night. Maybe it’s ordering in food while you play Dominos in your pajamas. Maybe it’s making hot chocolate and driving them around to look at the Christmas lights in their neighborhood. Maybe it’s going to the corner store and grabbing a bunch of magazines, then everyone making collages of your dream bedroom as a kid. The key is something you and son can design yourselves but is relatively easy for your parents, that you’re doing to create memories with them, that help give you something to get through each day. Make sure to take photos and make it an event so it feels special to them.
Good luck! You got this!
Nesprin
So first and foremost, you can just not go if you decide you don’t want to. Fake a positive covid test or whatever and you’re free. If you decide you need to go, then do the groundwork, make sure there’s things that’ll be fun to do, minimize the crud and accept that you’ve chosen this is a thing you have chosen to do.
If you aren’t planning to stay at a hotel+ have your own rental car, book both so you have space + control over where and when you can leave etc. Getting stuck on the living room couch between your brother asking for $ and your mother’s anxiety weasels can be somewhat prevented if kid starts yawning and you decide you need to be back at the hotel before dark.
I’d make sure you build in breaks, and plan one thing per day you’re looking forward to. Is there a museum that kid has always wanted to go to for the day after? Have you wanted to catch up with hometown friend X forever? Is there a neat restaurant that you’re dying to try?
I’d suggest bringing/giving as gifts a board game or puzzle or Lego set so you have a project to do and something other than the neighbor health issues to discuss . Or alternatively, can you and kid decide that fixing the broken kitchen light is going to be your project and run off to home depot when you need a break?
And it’s time to practice your best non-committal agreements: “that sounds hard” and of course “I’m sorry that you feel that way,” and have a code word when kid needs a break/to escape for the night.
Seventh Sister
Want to trade? I’m absolutely dreading having 11 people (BILs and BIL’s mom, in-laws, my parents, my kids, my spouse) for Christmas dinner. I genuinely like the BILs and BIL’s mom (gay uncles FTW) and love my parents, but my in-laws are barely tolerable and my husband is really chapping my hide.
Husband made an offhand comment about how I was “pretending to be domestic” by making fruitcakes a few days ago and it really hurt my feelings. I have a full-time job and I feel like I am constantly “being domestic” when I’m not working while he sits around all smug and “tired” because he cooks dinner. I try to do ONE thing in the kitchen that I actually like doing and I get insulted. Then the next day, he has the nerve to tell me I should have made more sugar cookies (with homemade icing!) with the kids because “we might run out!” I made about fifty cookies with the kids and trust me, you only need a couple even if you are a sugar-crazed seven year old (of which we have none).
Frankly, I just want to tell the next family member who registers a complaint that maybe they’d be happier being somewhere else where they don’t have to put up with my small house or my imperfect holiday preparations.
NYC
Just here to say you’re doing great! How frustrating that your husband made a thoughtless comment like that. Im glad you prioritized doing the holiday baking activity YOU like to do
Seventh Sister
Aw, thanks! I am getting better (thanks therapy!) at calling people on that kind of thing, so I think he’s going to think twice before goes down that road in the future.
Anon
This is OP. Was trying to respond to everyone but I am in tears now because I feel like I get support and understanding here I just don’t get anywhere else. So thank you to everyone who responded; all of you have great points and ideas, and in a way, it’s also comforting to know I’m not the only one who struggles with this.
A big part of it for me is that I am in my mid-40s and I somehow have still not let go of the idea that somehow, some way, I can make my parents be different or act different and then instead of everyone bickering and getting angry with each other, or getting super-anxious over minor things, we will be relaxed together and have a good time just enjoying each other’s company, like families on TV. It makes no sense because I have wanted my parents to be different, and treat me differently, my entire life and they have not done it to this point. They are likely not going to stop now. I have wanted for years for my brother to pull his act together and grow up, but he’s in his 40s now and I don’t see that happening. So for me, a big part of the sadness/stress is just wanting something different that I know is not going to happen. And I know I need to work through that. My mom is already guilting me about how short the visit is (“Well, since you’re *only* going to be here two days, we only need to plan so much!”) but I know I cannot do more than what I committed to. At least I booked the hotel and the rental car already, although that will become fodder for drama also (“Well, since you’re not staying with us and you didn’t trust us to pick you up at the airport…”).
I also feel anxious about taking my son into this situation, which he understands (he’s been around my mom his whole life and knows about her problems, although I’ve shielded him from a lot). He asked to come with me and I want him to come, but I always just go into high alert trying to make sure he’s not going to be exposed to family dysfunction. I don’t want to exclude him from the trip, because what if my dad really is in the final decline and Son doesn’t get to see him again? But at the same time, I just feel like I need to shield, shield, shield – even though my son is practically an adult – and I feel like if I don’t shield him enough, and bad things go down, that means I am a bad mom.
Finally, I am fine that my husband can’t come – he has to work the day after Christmas and actually will be lucky if we can get through Christmas Eve and Christmas Day without him having to work – but it’s causing questions from my mom (“Why isn’t he coming? Are you two having problems?”) and he also keeps apologizing to me for not being able to go, whenever I express my feelings about the trip. I’m fine and it’s fine and whatever! Stop apologizing. I feel like I should be apologizing because my family is so dysfunctional.
Anon
Fwiw, the very best thing that ever happened in my relationship with my parents was them clueing me into the family dysfunction. Of course I’d observed it and their not saying anything made me feel crazy and like I couldn’t relate to them because how could I relate to people who were fine with it all. Just a plug to really talk to your son – this could be the start of a new chapter of a beautiful relationship with him.
Not the Director
I totally get the wanting to fix tricky family situations (including anxiety and OCD issues!). Someone once said to me, “you are not the director of this production,” and I use that as my mantra now. It helps me remember that I can just sit back and watch and I don’t have to control or fix what’s happening (since I can’t fix it anyway.)
Anon
Good luck!
I have no advice but I can relate. I’m still recovering from thanksgiving.
JD
Hey, I have a similar trip upcoming. No fighting, but parents who monologue. My dad has dementia and I don’t know how bad it is. Something I did on the last trip, realizing that he was getting much older, was ask him to talk about his family memories and his childhood/ parents. I even took notes. That filled up a number of hours just hearing family history, and to be honest, I’m not sure he’d bad able to do that now.
Maybe they’d play a board game? Activities fill up time versus watching TV for hours/very loudly.
Anon
Quick gut check: is an Amazon gift card acceptable in this instance?
I have a shared assistant and the group of people she supports always get a combined gift card for her each year. This year, I’m the coordinator. She works remotely and we don’t know too much about her preferences or even local stores she frequents. Gift card will be in mid hundreds – is Amazon the right choice here? Has to be an e-gift card. I don’t shop on Amazon but I assume most people do? But to the tune of several hundred dollars? Target may be more useful since you can also get household goods there? I know I’m 100% overthinking it… I just want it to be useful for her!
Anon
I would go Target in these circumstances but I think Amazon is totally fine !
Anon
I would strongly prefer Target.
Cat
A-zon or Target are both popular choices in my org.
Anon
Target. If you think she drinks coffee and is not out in the middle of nowhere, doing, say, $25 to Starbucks and the balance to Target could be fun. (Yes I know there are Starbucks in Target stores, but that might not be the closest one to her.)
Senior Attorney
Either one is perfectly fine.
Anon
I’ll be the voice of minor dissent. I won’t shop at Amaz o n and I know others who won’t either. Go Target or a regular ole Visa GC (making sure there is no annual fee or expiration date).
Cat
I would do Target over a Visa GC. Visa GCs are irritating to use especially for online shopping.
Senior Attorney
Visa GC’s are the worst because you have to keep track of the balance. Don’t do that.
Anon
While I appreciate your moral qualms about Amazon, I have literally never met a single person in real life who boycotted Amazon and have never heard of it anywhere except on this site.
Which is not to say those people do not exist or that they are common in your social circle, but I suspect this is much, much less common that people here think.
Anon
Same here. I find it amusing too because it’s not like Target is actually any better for the issues people are concerned about. If you’re buying from any of them, it’s all the same.
Anon
I don’t disagree at all, frankly, I’d rather have cash but mailing cash is also problematic obviously. If you can get a check issued, great, but I’ve never seen that happen IRL so . . .
Anon
Really? I live in a blue-ish city in a red state and about half the people I know try to avoid Amazon. Perhaps “boycott” is not the right word – I suspect many people would use it in a pinch, I know I have – but many people I know have a preference for other corporations given the choice.
No corporation is perfect, but Target’s labor practices are definitely better than Amazon’s, and since they don’t use third party sellers there isn’t the risk of fake/counterfeit products that there is with Amazon.
Anon
I live in the most liberal US city (Berkeley) and Amazon trucks are parked up and down our street all day. I find the concern overblown as well, and I can’t think of a single person I’ve ever gifted who would be offended by an amazon gift card.
anon
I know plenty of people who only use Amazon for books or random small purchases. Regardless of your ethics it’s like sifting through a flea market with all the counterfeit products and sketchy paid reviews. At Target you can buy something without having to decipher whether it’s a legitimate product.
Anon
+1 my concerns aren’t really ethical. It’s more just that Amazon is not easy to use for anything except books and video. (And I don’t normally buy books and an already a prime video subscriber so am Amazon gift card would probably go to waste if someone gave me one).
Anonymous
I wouldn’t shop Target. Amazon has a gazillion more options.
I would avoid the Visa Gift Cards. Tracking the balance and actually using them with a cashier who knows how to do use them is a pain and online things sometimes won’t take.
Anon
Could you just write her a check and make it clear that it is from everyone?
A
Can you do half Amazon and half target?
Vicky Austin
I did three Things this morning and they were all 100% less painless than I thought they would be, so here’s your reminder and good juju to get it done!
Curious
Woot!!!
Anon
Awesome!
anon
Thank you for the good thoughts! I needed them while spending a good half hour on hold between chat and hotline, but it is finally done.
Walnut
Thank you for this reminder to call the dentist.
Anon
I had a (second) interview this morning that made me realize I don’t want the job. Now I still have to go through the already scheduled third interview this afternoon. It feels icky to show up be completely disingenuous and waste everyone’s time, but I know cancelling would come off much ruder. I guess here’s to realizing this job isn’t for me?
Curious
To be honest, a gentle email informing HR of your decision and giving the interviewer time back right before the holidays doesn’t sound too bad to me.
Anon
Same. I far prefer a candidate to withdraw than waste my time.
Anonymous
I think this is bad advice.
Nesprin
I disagree- saying you’ve realized this isn’t the position for you gives your interview panel back their time and allows them to move on to the next candidate.
anon
Same day/less than a handful of hours later though? I’d suck it up, interview, and then email tomorrow.
Curious
Probably really depends on the industry. To me, the timing is mitigated by the fact that there was another interview this morning. I’m in tech; I have a large candidate pool; I will honestly not remember the name of the person who backs out; if the person wants to come back later, great. I don’t want to waste my limited hours on a candidate who isn’t interested. I can imagine it being very different for a smaller, heavily networked field where you can burn a bridge by offending the wrong person.
Anon
This is me too. I’d much rather have the time back. I’m happy if a meeting cancels a minute before, frankly.
Anon
Ha I once had this realization on a super day mid-interview in my first slot of the day with a very senior interviewer. It happens. (I finished the day out – but super days are a little different format. In your case, depending on the amount of advance notice you might be able to politely drop out if you do it ASAP).
Anon
I was once 5 minutes into an on-campus interview where it was very clear they were not interested in me (the way our OCI was set up they did not get a lot of choice on who they interviewed). It was right before lunch so I just said “Look, clearly I am not a candidate you are interested in. How about I let you leave early for lunch and I can make it to my next class on time?” I gave them directions to a nice place for lunch and we parted on much friendlier terms than we would have if it had forced them to sit through 30 minutes for no reason.
It is the week before Christmas. There is no reason to waste people’s time. Just frame it in this terms.
No Face
Just withdraw. I would not take it personally if the candidate knew the job wasn’t a good fit.
Anon
OP here – thanks all for the reality check. I’m going to withdraw.
Anon
If you have not already done so, I have found that it is helpful to be explicit about wanting to, e.g., give people their time back before the holidays/during year end insanity.
Curious
Yes, absolutely, make your gratitude and your motivation (saving *them* time) abundantly clear.
Anon
I want to level up my jewelry wardrobe now that I’m more senior in my org. I have diamond studs, pearl studs, gold hoops, and a couple simple necklaces. l admire statement jewelry on other people but don’t think I can pull it off after decades of wearing only the above basics. Any shopping tips? Specific items and brand recommendations welcome. Budget is about $1k for which I would like to add at least a few pieces.
Vicky Austin
Olive + Piper has elevated-ish basics in sedate tones; you might see if you like any of their items. My sister gave me a pair of their earrings and I wear them constantly.
Anon
Unless you want costume jewelry, I’d suggest saving your 1k and adding to the budget over time so you can add quality, real, pieces. Otherwise just get some stuff at Banana or JCrew to fill in the gaps. 1k will barely get you something real and I think that’s what you probably want.
Anon
Check out Aurate.
Anon
You might like a simple set of black pearls and matching studs from Majorica. They are high quality cultured, but real, pearls.
pugsnbourbon
I am an Earring Person. I’d look for some gold or sterling silver studs in interesting shapes, gemstone earrings, and small colorful resin hoops.
These are really pretty and interesting: https://tinyurl.com/mv8j4nfs
I have similar bar studs and get a lot of wear out of them: https://tinyurl.com/3dbd7mwk
These are different and lovely: https://tinyurl.com/b2z6u7ts
Anne-on
What about double or triple strand of pearls? Pearl paradise is a good resource. I agree that $1k for more than 1 piece of real jewelry may be tough. For good quality costume jewelry I’ve been impressed by Dorsey – I have the clarette necklace and like it a lot.
I’d also start to browse around local jewelry shops and see if any have estate sections – you can pick up some amazing finds that way.
Anonymous
I like the Monika Vinader stuff, but haven’t bought anything yet.
I think the Alta chain necklace is contemporary and interesting, and would like to get this for myself:
https://londoncoliseum.org/whats-on/swan-lake/
C
for funky pearls recommend kojima pearl, pearl paradise also good for basics
C
and kojima has a sale on now!
https://kojimapearl.com/
A
Check out Pearl paradise.
Curious
Dear everyone,
The shower organizer Kat recommended a while ago is making me so happy. My PCP and I upped my antidepressant dose, and it immediately improved my well-being. I am back in therapy next week. And flossing alone (I was already using sensodyne with an electric toothbrush) has reversed most of the gum issues I was having.
A year ago today I started chemo; this year, it’s shower organizers, meds, and floss. You’ve been there all along, and I’m so grateful for all of you. Happy holidays, happy start of Hanukkah, happy almost Christmas. May your days be merry and bright, if they can be, and for those having a hard season (Coach Laura, thinking of you), much love.
Curious
Vicky Austin
Aw, Curious, you’re one of my favorite voices here and I’m so glad we could make your journey a bit less crappy. Cheers to chemo being behind you, hopefully to stay there, and happiest holidays! <3
Anonymous Canadian
Thank you for this joyful update. I think of you often and am so glad things are going well for you. Love from Canada.
Anon
<3 This is wonderful!
Anon
So not the overall point, but I meant to respond to the gum issue and see if you can get Rx toothpaste with a fluoride concentrate. My dentist prescribed it and it’s nothing short of a miracle. Plus flossing, of course.
Curious
Okay! I’ll ask :)
Senior Attorney
Oh, this is wonderful!! Wishing a wonderful holiday season to you and your sweet little family, Curious!!
Hooray
I’m an anonymous mostly-lurker who is always so happy to see your name pop up, Curious, and always hoping the very best for you and your family. Here’s wishing you every blessing in 2023. Thanks for the light that you bring to this community. You inspire me.
edj3
This is such a sweet update, so glad you shared this :) And HURRAH for the upped rx and getting back into therapy. Much love to you from freezing cold Kansas today.
pugsnbourbon
This is wonderful! I’m glad you’re feeling better and that this is a better season :)
Jules
Great update, so glad things are looking up!
anon
Help me find a blogger or IG person who fits my style. I prefer more classic and preppy styles but all the classic style bloggers are so much thinner than I am that it makes it hard to translate the style. I am a tall size 12-14 with thick hips and thighs. I don’t consider myself curvy because I’m rectangular through the torso and have an average-sized bust and booty. I don’t look like the thin bloggers, nor the ones who market themselves as curvy or plus-sized. If I don’t get my outfit proportions right, I look very matronly. And I badly need jeans but can’t find any that fit my shape correctly.
Curious
Have you tried Wardrobe Oxygen? Her overall look might be more colorful than yours, and she’s shorter, but her thorough reviews of pants, e.g., have turned me on to new brands that fit me better. For reference, I’m 5’8″ and 42-33-42 with a very short waist that makes me much straighter up and down than the measurements imply.
anon
I have mixed feelings on WO. She’s so much shorter than I am that much of her advice just doesn’t apply. I do like her style, although it’s much more OOT than mine.
Anonymous
I hope you get responses, because I am looking for the same thing! It’s hard for me to find clothing that fits but isn’t frumpy.
Anonymous
Maybe Simply Elsa?
DC Anon
Agree with the Simply Elsa rec!
Anne-on
Prepford Wife is definitely shorter than you but she looks to be roughly a size 10-14 (she links to clothing and they’re straight sizes but often L/XL/12 ish). She looks fantastic – preppy but in a very modern approachable way – so LLBean mixed with TuckerNuck or Brooks Brothers with Gap.
anon
This has potential! Thank you. I like her vibe.
Anonymous
I like Katherine at The Docket for this. Maybe not the exact shape you are describing, but she might have some good looks for you to copy. Her insta is @thedocketblog
Anonymous
Caralyn Mirand?
Lydia
maybe useless_dk? She’s Danish but her look is fairly preppy, and might work with your look and shape. Ooh, or Cheryl from _ifitstuesday_ She has a lot of classic looks but isn’t stick thin. I also like Diana.dares but she’s definitely plus size and curvy.
anon
What are your favorite holiday traditions? I’m newly married and want to do something special that we can look forward to. My DH is a big sap! We don’t have family nearby, so it will be the 2 of us on Christmas and NYE.
Anon
My husband and I go out to dinner somewhere fancy every Christmas Eve. We have a ton of local family but that’s our night together – an island in the chaos of it all. We dress up and have a celebration for two. Typically followed with dancing in our living room when we get home.
Anon
We get a new ornament every year! And then between Christmas and NYE we love to make our “best of” lists — like top 10 movies, books, meals etc. Also my mom makes the same Christmas morning breakfast every year and I’d totally do the same for just DH and I!
nuqotw
I come from a family where we did hors d’ouvres and trifle for NYE. This tradition scales up or down nicely and is easily customized to taste. Spouse and I like to do baguettes with fancy cheese and dips, deviled eggs, and sparkling cider.
anon
My husband and I also go out for a nice dinner, but any weekend night in December. We went this past Friday night, and it was a lovely “island in the chaos it all,” as Anon@2:12 put it.
DH and I buy cheese and charcuterie from our local cheese monger and have that, plus some dressed greens, for our Christmas meal. It feels special but allows us to pass on actually cooking. We visit quite a lot of family nearby, so it’s nice after all the craziness.
I don’t know that it’s a tradition, but I love taking a long walk during Christmas Day.
Senior Attorney
We are Old so we have ended up with several sets of holiday dishes (and even a ca. 1980s set of 12 Days of Christmas drinking glasses!), and we get them out and eat our meals off them for the whole month of December. Very festive!