Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Maggie Ottoman Dress

300 Comments

1. How about Betheney Frankel at RTR/UBS’s Project Entrepreneur summit http://alldigitocracy.org/bethenny-frankel-gives-lesson-in-how-not-to-empower-a-room-full-of-women-founders/

   The summary I have seen is: (1) get a white man to be the face of your company and (2) have sex with men in exchange for capital.

   The session was not recorded, but was summarized by attendees on social media.

   Listen, even if you think it, you probably shouldn’t say it out loud at a entrepreneur summit for women. Aye yi yi

   1. Things like this make me mad because people use the fact that a woman said things like this as justification for their own misogynist beliefs. Ugh.

   2. I’m not a big Bethenny fan, but I suspect at least the comment about trading sex for capital was sarcastic. She says inappropriate, tongue-in-cheek stuff like that all the time. It sounds like what she said was offensive, but also that the audience doesn’t know her schtick.

      1. +1 Get off her jock.

   3. I wanted to read about this and respond, but that article/blog post is so incoherent that I cannot tell at all what happened.

      1. Seriously! What did Bethenny actually say? It’s totally unclear from that article.

      2. I tried to find a better summary, but because it wasn’t recorded, the tweets appear to be the best way to understand. Of course, it’s second hand information.

         Also, I get that Bethenney is generally sarcastic, but that probably wasn’t the best forum in which to be sarcastic about those particular topics.

2. Kat, I LOVE this BODEN dress! It has all of the thing’s I LOVE! Cap sleeve’s and NOT low cut so that Frank can NOT peer in, and also a great line so that my tuchus does not look to prominent! What a great FIND! And the PETITE will work well for me! I will show to the manageing partner this morning and buy it by NOON! Rosa can also get one and we can be “twins” at our Seder, which is comeing up soon. Happy Passover in advance to the HIVE!

   I am goeing to court today [AGAIN] b/c the judge want’s to meet me in Chambers to go over a new opportunity he came up for me, that does NOT relate to any of my cases. The manageing partner think’s it is something to do about me doing some consulting on a medieation project the court is thinkeing of doeing in the FIRST department, appellate division, but which will have Widespread application across the board. The manageing partner think’s the Judge will put ME on the Advisory Board! YAY! I will do a great job so that I can be considered for the bench, he says! I hope so, b/c I am tired of billeing 7500 hours! If I got married, I would still be consulteing, and mabye work part time for the bench. YAY!!!!!

3. Annoying start to the day…Pulled out a brand new pair of pantyhose, go to put them on, and immediately create a hole with a hangnail I hadn’t noticed. Grrr….there goes $20!

   1. And this is why I gave up on pantyhose. ;-)

   2. This is why I started buying the 5 pair packs at Marks & Spencer… too many Falke stockings were victim of the side of a table

   3. I think a beginning like that should qualify you for a sick day. I hate when this happens.

      1. I hate it with a passion too, so I keep a pair of nude and black in my desk (the only shades I wear) just in case. Also there is a little store nearby that carries my brand. So if I have to make a quick change, it appears to be seamless (pardon the pun).

4. Prayers and best wishes for your surgery and recovery, Kat!

   1. Yes, good luck!

   2. Sending positive thoughts and prayers that all goes well and you have a speedy recovery.

5. So, my husband’s senior colleague told him he’d vote Trump even in the general election as he

   1. Could not bear to vote democrat
   2. Dismissed trump’s anti female, anti minority comments as “just talk”
   3. Thought Obama had “messed up the Middle East”

   We are not American and live in Asia but DH was shocked. And said so. How can a highly educated, intelligent person even think the above makes sense!

   1. Trumpers are bad, but Bernie supporters who say they’ll vote for Trump over Clinton are even worse, imo.

      1. I have never heard such a thing.

         1. I have at least five Facebook friends who have posted that. Who knows if they are serious, but it is incredibly disturbing to me. I have never heard a Clinton supporter say the same thing.

         2. THERE IS SO MUCH OF THIS, YOU WOULDN’T BELIEVE IT.

            1. It’s gonna be huuuuuuge.

         3. The actress Susan Sarandon is an outspoken Sanders supporter. She said something recently to the effect that she wasn’t sure Trump would be worse for the country than Clinton. After a huge backlash, she clarified that she wouldn’t vote for Trump, but stopped short of saying she would vote for Clinton ifs she becomes the nominee.

            1. I think what Susan Sarandon said was outrageous (and am still scratching my head about why anyone cares about Hollywood celebrity endorsements anyway), but to be fair, she did not say that Clinton was equivalently bad, she just said she thought electing Trump would “bring the revolution.” Still a ridiculous position though IMO.

         4. They are ALL over the internet. I hope they’re a minority, but they sure are vocal about it. I don’t think they’re trolling. They’re idiots, but not trolling.

      2. +1,000,000

      3. I’m pretty sure those people are just internet trolls.

      4. I have a few FB friends who are avid Bernie supporters and the stuff they post about Clinton is over the top. So, so much negativity. None of them have said they would vote for Trump over Clinton though. I’m a Bernie fan but will gladly vote for Clinton if she wins the nomination.

         1. +1. I am a Bernie Sanders fan and voted for him in my state’s primary. But I had to ignore the FB friend (acquaintance really) whose posts were among the reasons I first started paying attention to Bernie Sanders because (a) I was seeing 20+ pro-Sanders posts per day from him, and (b) the level of discourse had spiraled to extremely negative, anti-Clinton memes that had almost no basis in reality. I’ll also vote for Clinton if she wins the nomination, and would probably vote for a Green party or Libertarian candidate over Trump.

            1. +1 same. I would vote for myself before I vote for Trump, because even though I’d have no f-ing clue how to run the country, at least 1) I know that and 2) I’m not a racist misogynistic a**hole (or someone comfortable saying racist, misogynistic things to win votes, which is equally bad).

            2. Ugh, we might have the same friend. Or friends.

   2. “….makes no sense”.

      Typing fail.

   3. I believe more and more that those researchers who say we live in a bubble and only talk to people who share are particular beliefs are right. Not that I agree with your husband’s colleague, but I really get that people, even people with resumes better than mine, can and often do come down differently on issues.

      I would pose this to the group:
      Do you have friends other than of your beliefs on a particular issue?
      If so, can you discuss those beliefs civilly or do things break down into a screamfest or stomping around or some internet flame war?

      I am not a very religious person, but I do try to think as I listen that this person is a fellow being, who is struggling with imperfection (same as me), who is endowed with a brain and a capacity to reason and thing (same as me), who is coming from a good place (until proved otherwise), and if this person thinks differently, let me hear him/her out and try to understand. I may not be persuaded, but I really try to listen first and decide after listening (which is what I ask of others). We may disagree but we should at least talk.

      1. I think that’s very true. I was at a conference with colleagues from around the UK and living in my Scottish bubble, was quite surprised to hear that people were increasingly concerned about the possibility of a Brexit. I’ve been paying attention to the polling which suggests a narrow vote but because I don’t know anyone who is (openly) voting leave, it didn’t quite register as an issue.

      2. Well said. It’s really worrying to me how many people seem to have no experience beyond caricatures of a large number of people in this country. (Not an indictment on the OP, since she’s out of the country, obviously, but I’m seeing that from people who are here, too.) (That’s a bipartisan statement, BTW.)

      3. I think the intensity of your views indicate who you surround yourself with. I’m a moderate and have friends along all points of the political spectrum. My extremely liberal and extremely conservative friends only have friends who think like them because they are typically so obnoxious that someone who disagrees with them is not going to waste time being their friend.

         1. But if you’re a moderate and they are your friends, then they have at least one friend who doesn’t think like they do, right?

      4. I am a life-long republican who has never seemed to live near other republicans (married minivan driver living on an urban fringe and using public schools). My neighbors (usually also demographically different than me and also demographically different from each other) all get along with each other, and yet there is frequent shock when people come to realize that A feels differently or B is a member of This Other Group or that I am a republican. It is good to see people who are good representatives of whatever group they are in and not the extremes and carictatures depicted on TV and (worse) the internet. Maybe things were better when people read daily local newspapers more?

      5. My sister and I were raised in a military family, so the topics of politics was simply not discussed. Interestingly, she became an ardent republican and I a democrat, with our spouses sharing our political views. We both hold very strong and educated beliefs. My sister lives in DC, and she and her husband are very plugged into the political scene. I absolutely love discussing politics with her because I can ask the honest questions and receive honest and forthright responses. We actually listen to each other and have the opportunity to learn. And… now I miss my sister.

         1. That’s great.

            My spouse comes from a family of democrats. He and I can discuss political things. He says it has been very eye-opening b/c he was told and never questioned (see, bubble, supra) that republicans are basically evil and now he sees that what I (Republican sample size of 1 with strong libertarian tendencies) think and why I think that way.

            The inlaws in a group will spout off various things, but I recognize that they are not looking to engage in a serious or thoughtful conversation and just DayDrink.

         2. I think this is great. I’m like this with my friends as well. There are some limits, to me though. I’m a woman of color, so I can’t really totally respect someone who thinks that women belong in the kitchen or that black people are lazy or otherwise deficient. Different views are good and good for me to engage with. Outright prejudice is not.

            1. +1 Trump isn’t about different views – he’s not John McCain or Ronald Reagan- it’s about prejudice and stereotyping and labeling

            2. Exactly. I have friends with lots of different beliefs on politics, religion, abortion, economics, and a whole host of other issues. But aligning yourself with someone who spews so much hate is different, in my view. I haven’t actually talked about politics to people that I otherwise like but think might vote for Trump because if they really agree with the hatred of minorities and women that he espouses, I just can’t see them the same way.

            3. IDK that people agree full-on with any of these candidates and I think that a lot of us will wind up holding our nose to vote in November.

               Choosing any of these doesn’t mean I even like that candidate (I may just find them to be the least-bad choice of the choices I have), let alone full-on agree with 100% of what that candidate says (which may be something said just to get airtime).

               40% of my state’s open-primary votes went to Trump. 40%! I do not think that those people actually believe that or support that. I think that they voted for him maybe b/c they dislike Cruz more and don’t see Rubio as winning? I don’t know. My guess from Trump doing SO MUCH BETTER in open primaries is that those aren’t even republicans who are voting for him (and that my large urban county in a blue state went for Trump is a real head scratcher — but to me it confirms that it’s not just republicans but a lot of I and D voters who are voting for him).

      6. I’m a republican-leaning moderate in a solidly blue urban area in a traditionally blue state. I can’t talk with my friends about “politics” because it inevitably becomes a conversation explicitly about social issues, which then feel like a sanctimonious attack. I love my friends, but if politics come up I keep my mouth shut and wait for the conversation to pass. If I thought my contributions would be productive or well-received, then maybe I’d say more, but it’s just not worth it to me since they evidently don’t want to hear anything that disagrees with their beliefs.

         1. +1. This is exactly my experience.

         2. Oh my. I’m very much guilty of being on the other side of this. It’s difficult for me to get past social issues with ‘moderate’ republican friends and family. Part of me wants to discuss economics and international issues, where I suspect we’ll find common ground. However, I’m uncomfortable when social issues, specifically, my rights as a woman, my brothers rights as a gay man and my cousin’s experience as a young black man are deemed secondary issues by most of these people. In my experience, most ‘moderate’ republicans in my blue state don’t disagree with me on social issues, they just don’t find them important. It’s really easy for me to come across as sanctimonious while trying to explain that myself and my loved ones are people who matter.

            1. Just FYI – myself and my loved ones are people who matter, too.

               How about stop explaining and start asking “why” so to understand where people like me are coming from rather than assume it’s because I don’t think I or my loved ones matter.

            2. Would love to! Honestly, why? Do you vote republican because of or in spite of the party’s stance on theses issues? This is the conversation no one wants to have with me.

            3. I encourage you to talk to your friends and have a productive conversation with them, not an internet stranger. My positions are very personal to me, the strongest of which could out me here in anonymous internet world.

               Also, again, easy with the conclusion-drawing: I’m probably voting for Hillary in this election cycle.

            4. How is it conclusion drawing to ask a self identified republican-leaning person why she votes that way? I hadn’t assumed you were voting any which way in the upcoming presidential election. I respect your decision not to detail your beliefs here. However, I think your position demonstrative of the situation I described above. Without a productive discourse, I’m afraid you’ll continue to feel attacked.

            5. Late but +many to you, Suburban. That’s what I struggle with the most.

      7. Eh, in defense of the OP (I’m not her): I’m not shocked when I learn a person has different beliefs than me. I don’t balk at an educated person supporting Ted Cruz, even though his opinions are probably more opposed to mine than Trump’s. But I’m always surprised when I hear someone educated supports Trump, because he hasn’t really said anything (other than inflammatory slurs, I suppose) the whole campaign. I’ve listened to him speak on TV multiple times and all he talks about is building a wall and making Mexico pay for it. He hasn’t articulated clear positions on any issue, really. I have heard Cruz, Rubio, etc. speak and they are much clearer about the direction they think the country should take. I think Trump’s campaign really appeals to less educated people who feel like they haven’t been represented in politics and he will represent them by being an angry outsider. I assume most highly educated people choose candidates based on their stance on the issues, and since he doesn’t really have a stance on the issues, I’m surprised when I learn very educated people are supporting him.

         1. Eh, I don’t know. I get the sense of anger and frustration that people have at the system in general, the elites, and the Republican party, and that’s really what Trump is capitalizing on. I’m a moderate with liberal leanings, and I really detest Trump. And by most standards, I’m an “elite” too. But our system is supposed to work for everyone (plus or minus) and it really hasn’t been in many ways. Middle class and below Republicans and their interests haven’t been very well represented in the recent years. I’d be mad at the party for that. The GOP response to Trump’s popularity has in many respects been patronizing, and that would make me mad too if I were one of them. HIghly educated people have feelings and visceral reactions too, and I think that’s largely what’s going on here. Plus, one could make a solid case that “the system is broken.” I just don’t personally agree that Trump is a real answer to that problem.

            Anyway, I’m the total opposite of a Trump supporter in basically every way, I’m a person of color who has been really horrified at all the racist/sexist/ and other -ist slurs, and I hate him. I just see how others could feel differently about it.

      8. +1 This is what I love about living in DC. Yes, your political stripes are probably more important than they are elsewhere, but we have some of the brightest, most thoughtful, educated people from all parts of the political web (as someone who fits neither party comfortably, saying “both sides” as if there are only two just doesn’t work). Because so many of us wear our beliefs on our sleeves (or more accurately, on our lapel pins) just because of our work affiliations, it sometimes makes it easier to have these conversations. It’s much harder to assume that everyone thinks like you. Although some friends do have a tendency still to assume that anyone like them (highly educated, affluent) must be liberal and progressive because that’s the “right” set of beliefs to have. But these people tend to be more insulated from politics and policy, and therefore more likely to still be in a bubble.

      9. My friends are mostly pretty liberal, while I am a lightly left-leaning libertarian. On the political compass test, my scores are Economic Left/Right: -2.88 (left of center), Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97 (into libertarian).

         My group of friends very rarely discusses politics, but when I have raised a dissenting point of voice/opinion, the person with whom I am speaking generally goes silent and the conversation dies. I like to play a nice devil’s advocate because I do believe that if you have only friends who believe similarly, you may not be exposed to what could be rational viewpoints on the other side. I have one or two right leaning libertarians with whom I can discuss more conservative view points. No one resorts to screaming or anything like that, but I definitely have certain people who I discuss certain opinions with.

      10. I so agree about the bubble. I am in my early 40s, lawyer, raised and live in Toronto…and I have NEVER, EVER met someone who identifies as pro-life, thinks abortion should be illegal or even that there should be more restrictions on it than we have. Obviously, I read the news so I know that (lots of) those people are out there…but seriously, how can not even one be in my bubble???

          1. It’s very possible they’re there but afraid to speak out. I have a Republican friend who regularly keeps his mouth shut at work because he worries he’ll be ostracized. (And his views aren’t even fringey. Very mainstream establishment Republican.)

6. This dress is nice enough, but I really want those shoes. Anyone know where they’re from?

   Also, I’m looking for a mat to stand on at my standing desk. I sit often, too, so it needs to be something that can be easily moved out of the way of my rolling chair. Any suggestions? (Cheaper is better!)

   1. Also Boden. http://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/womens-shoes-boots/heels/ar732-pew/womens-pewter_mushroom_black-amelia-heel

      They often have at least a 15% off promo code and will usually go on sale. I’m a big fan of my boden heels for comfort/quality.

      1. Those are gorgeous, I wish I had the lifestyle for them!

      2. Those are gorgeous. I want them in every color (well, I could skip the orange) and I want to wear them every day. Too bad my feet might disagree.

   2. Everyone in my office suite has the Amazon Basics mat. It’s lightweight and pretty easy to move, I just shove my under my desk when I go back to sitting.

   3. Yes! This is what I was coming here to find out. Those shoes are gorgeous!

7. A Saks Off Fifth just opened near me. Anything I should look for in particular there? Any good finds or steals?

   1. I like their store brand cashmere. Especially the short sleeve sweater shells – I’ve gotten them for $30-40 and they wear really well under suits.
      Also: sunglasses, scarves (they have lots of really nice big silk, shawl-like ones) and, occasionally, alexis bittar jewelry (if you like that).

   2. Jeans! Saks Off Fifth is my first stop whenever I need a new pair. It can be hit or miss from visit to visit, but they carry a ton of different styles and brands at a deep discount. My workhorse jeans are from Off Fifth–they retailed for $100+ and I got them for $20.

      Also shoes.

      1. +1 for jeans. On top of the lower prices, they often have BOGO promotions. There’s a free coupon on giltcity now for $30 off in store or online.

   3. I went to a Saks off Fifth for the first time a couple weeks ago and found some great jewelry!

      1. Is there a Saks Off Fifth in TO now?!

         1. Yes! I actually went to the one in Ottawa but there is one at Vaughn Mills (not technically Toronto but close enough) and also at the outlets in Halton Hills. So closeish to Toronto

8. Anyone else been slightly disappointed with mms lafleur? I was happy initially, but have had some not so good experiences. A black top bled ink over a light colored blazer (hasnt come out after 1 dry cleaning) and a pillow. Pants have pilled and have a pull after 6 wears. If these were cheap clothes, I would understand but I excpected better for the price.

   1. I haven’t tried MM Lafleur, but thanks for reporting back. I’ve been eyeing some of their dresses and was wondering if it would be worth the price.

      1. I have one dress that is pilling slightly at the armpit area (it has sleeves so I guess it rubs when I walk?) I love it so much, it fits like a dream and the fabric feels nice, but I dk why it’s pilling. That’s my only experience – I did one of their pop-up shops and I wanted to buy everything based on looks…I’d love to hear other peoples experience!

   2. A shirt I recently purchased went right back after it started to pill after a few wears. I don’t think the quality is any better than Banana Republic.

      1. I have two dresses and I LOVE them. The fit, style, color, everything. One is machine washable, which I also love. I will say the black one bled ink for me too, but I love it so much I would buy it again. I want like five more dresses from them.

         1. I am a HUGE (HUUUGE) believer in the color catcher washing machine sheets (and I put them in the dryer, too). My kids wear navy uniforms and I am buying new ones ALL THE TIME and I have never had the color catcher sheets not do their job.

            1. I think the color bleeding is not in the wash, but while they are wearing them.

   3. Can y’all comment more re the fabrics? Were the problematic ones knits / washable items?

      I have 1 item that I very much like, but have not worn it much yet but want to go on an MM bender when I get my tax refund.

      1. The top that bled (while I was wearing, not in the wash) all over the jacket was dry clean recommended, I believe. The pants that pilled were machine wash.

         1. I’ve had a different experience with the Nakamura trouser. I’ve worn them 2-3 times a week since I bought the a few months ago and have washed them. They still look new and are incredibly comfortable. I don’t wear any other pants now.

      2. I bought a gorgeous TOI dress in a stretch wool that is lined. I think the quality is gorgeous and I always reach for it. I have a black poly ( I think) dress that I like and wear but it’s much more mall brand quality. Overall I like the brand.

   4. Oh no. I was looking forward to revamping my wardrobe with their line. Following this discussion.

   5. I have one dress that I LOVE but it’s sleeveless. I’ve worn the heck out of it (machine washable to boot). Sounds like for others it may be hit or miss?

   6. I have five MM LaFleur dresses and have not experienced any quality issues, but I’m afraid to wash even the supposedly washable items and send them all to the dry cleaner.

      1. I have the Etsuko dress in teal and love, love, love it. It’s held up great–I wear it maybe once a week and wash it maybe once a month. It’s only about 3 months old but so far it’s amazing! I want to buy their Morandi sweater…I tried it on at a pop-up and it was yummy. Has anyone tried the Sant Ambroeus Jardigan?? I’d be interested to hear experiences there.

   7. I have the Jardigan, I love it. No issues with pilling or bleeding (but i’ve only had it for 4 or so months. Seriously a work horse for my work wardrobe. I can’t wait to buy more MM LaFleur–the featherweight wool scarf in pale mauve is on the top of my list (it was in my first Bento but I was broke).

9. Good luck with your surgery, Kat!

10. Any suggestions for a large leather tote that I can take to court and also use as a commuting bag? Must be able to hold files, lunch, and maybe a pair of shoes. Also looking for one with a full zipper (so if you turn it upside down nothing will fall out).

    I like this one, but it only has a middle zipper.

    http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/tory-burch-york-buckle-tote/3736692?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=FRENCH%20GREY

    Would prefer non-black (maybe a charcoal, nude, or even a color like dark royal blue).

    Any ideas? My current commuting bag is a diaper bag so I’m in woeful need of an upgrade. :) Thank you!

    1. The leather version of the Longchamp Pliage – I believe it’s called the Cuir. Pricey, but fits your requirements.

       1. Thank you! This looks nice but I was hoping for one with a longer strap, that I could wear on my shoulder.

          1. It does come with a longer strap!

    2. I recently bought this one and love it:
       http://www.amazon.com/Piel-Leather-Ladies-Laptop-Saddle/dp/B0044H2VC0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

    3. I’ll support the Dagne Dover 15″. It’s kinda heavy but it’s truly a workhorse. I’ve also had great luck with J Crew bags in the past – right now I’m carrying a leather tote by them from a few years back.

       1. https://www.talkable.com/x/VnvGOh Dagne Link

       2. I really like my Dagne tote. I agree that it is heavy, but it has also held up well. Their newer leather tote also seems very nice, but suspect it is also heavy.

    4. I use a Brahman weekender that I got at a sample sale at the factory outlet.

11. My husband is starting medical school in City Y in the fall. We live in the suburbs about a 45 minute commute to school in City Y. My office is in City X, a 15 minute commute from home. My mom is also in City X, but about 20 minutes past my office. Currently, my husband telecommutes so he usually takes our 2 year old to my mom’s and works out of her home. We would like to have kid #2 in about 2 years, while husband is in medical school. We seriously feel like we are outgrowing our current space and want to get a bigger space. We can afford to buy a bigger place, comfortably, even without husband’s salary. The question is, where do we move to? City X (where my mom is and where my office is) is somewhere we can see ourselves permanently, but it would increase husband’s commute to about 90 minutes each way. As I will probably be doing most drop offs when husband is in school (thankfully I have a very 9-5 schedule), my commute will be about 20-30 minutes. We could also stay where we are now, in City Z, which is about halfway between City Y and City X. It will be a 45 minute commute for my husband to get to the school and would increase my commute from 15 minutes to about 50 minutes to account for dropping off the kid to my mom’s. City Z is a good half way point, but we really could not afford a bigger place in City Z (and would not want to live here permanently). My husband prefers to move to City X and says he does not mind a long commute (he has done it before) and we really need a bigger place, but would we be crazy for moving to City X and increasing husband’s commute while he is in medical school? I think we could stay put until we are expecting kid #2, but that still leaves 1-2 year left for my husband in City Y school. Is there an alternative I am not thinking of?

    1. I would not move now. Even though your commute will be longer, I just don’t think you’ll see your husband much if he has a 90 minute commute. Stay put for at least two years, maybe longer.

       1. Agreed, between med school and the commute, your husband will be incredibly busy/absent.

       2. Agreed. Also, clean out your space ruthlessly. You’d be surprised at how much space you probably already have. A refresh of your living space can solve most of the “we need more space” issues. If you’re not good at it, hire some pro help – it will be a lot cheaper and easier than moving.

          1. I think this is such a great suggestion. Get rid of stuff you don’t need and you’ll find that the space you have can go a lot further.

          2. I’m not a Konmari (sp?) person, so if you are, take this with a grain of salt, but it’s probably cheaper to get a storage place for 2 years than to fix up and sell. I would personally look into that if you have lots of things you think you will want in another house — or for another baby — but no room at present.

       3. Medical school is going to suck SO HARD for the both of you – he’ll really need his rest when he can get it. You will be responsible for EVERYTHING, including feeding him. And then comes residency. Good luck.

          1. Yes this! Medical school may be somewhat more flexible hours wise for the first 2 years (like most student schedules) but very stressful. Clinicals are not flexible and he may move around to different hospitals. Also what about residency? It’s a match system so his ability to control where he goes will be limited. Depending on his specialty and your area, he may need to apply broadly (better chances if you live somewhere with a ton of programs but NYC is the only area I know of like that). And it’s impossible to judge now because even if he thinks he knows what specialty he wants, he doesn’t. And a 90 minute commute with most resident hours would be brutal. I’m married to a resident. He has an “easier” specialty and the 30-45 min commute is still brutal. Many days he doesn’t see our kid at all. I wouldn’t buy a permanent house before residency match. I think you should really prepare yourself for essentially single parenting for the next 7-9 years. The first 2 years will probably be the best because most of your husband job is studying which can be flexed a bit to work with your schedule, so that’s definitely the time if you’re going to have another kid. Good luck! Take some nice vacations this summer.

             1. +1

                His life will get hellish very soon. Even contemplating a 90 minute commute for your husband tells me you are clueless as to how hellish his life will get starting year 3. He needs as short a commute as possible once he starts his clinical rotations. You will start being a single parent.

                Save your money. Don’t move. Get ready to hire more help. The next few years will get harder and harder.

             2. 1,000,000

    2. Does your husband’s commute mean driving? If not, it could actually be quite productive for him to have some extra reading time (I always liked reading on the subway on my way to law school).

       Other ideas: I suppose you could move to city Y and your husband would have no commute but your commute would increase. Maybe if you get a big enough place your mom could come stay with you during the week so you don’t have to move the kids. But I’d think this would be hard. If your husband doesn’t mind the commute, I’d just move to City X – you want to stay there long term, your mom is there, you’ll probably be shouldering a lot of responsibility while he is in school and it will be easier if you are near your office and family.

    3. Won’t your husband have to move after medical school for a residency? It seems crazy to buy now and then have to move again in 4 years. I would stay put for now and move to a rental if/when a second kid arrives if you really need more space (but I think you can probably make do in your current space – in NYC and other HCOL areas people sometimes have 2 kids in a 1 bed apartment. Babies don’t need their own rooms).

       1. +1 on the residency thing. I live in an area that’s pretty oversaturated with hospitals/medical centers/etc., and have watched more than one person/couple sell a recently-purchased home after matching solely out-of-state, in spite of expectations/assurances to the contrary when they were first entering medical school. Even if you think you know, you have absolutely no idea where your H will match for residency, and with that kind of uncertainty hanging over you in the relatively near future, now is not the time to buy a house.

    4. FWIW, I had a 90 minute each way (driving) commute to law school (there were reasons which made a lot of sense before the crash to say where we were). It was a pain, and expensive, but I do think that it made me a better student – the reason was that it really forced me to make use of my time well and treat law school seriously, rather than getting quite as involved with the social scene and getting too comfortable. I did rent out a spare bedroom to stay a couple nights a week, and was able to arrange my schedule to keep the number of days that I had to drive down. I know that law school is not med school, but it’s something to keep in mind that the commute might not be as detrimental as you would think. If I were you, I would say in place until I know more long term plans, even if means squeezing a new baby into a corner somewhere.

    5. Stay where you are now. That’s so much extra time for him away from the family. Guarantee you do not “need” more space. You want it. Which I get, but can you really afford it with him in school? And why would you buy right before med school when you’ll likely move again for residency?

    6. Konmari your space + ask mom to watch your child at your house — even if only 1-2 times/week it would really help with your commute. Would definitely not move in this scenario – Medical school + 90 min commute means a lot of single parenting for you.

    7. What happens after medical school? Does he need to do an internship or residency, etc elsewhere or look for a job in another city, or does he think he can find a job in City X, Y or Z? Is he going to medical school to be a doctor, or to become a researcher? I’m afraid all I know about medical school/doctors is from TV shows like Grey’s Anatomy and a handful of posts here, but I’d be concerned about buying a place with only the next 2 years planned out and not knowing what comes after that.

       Also, is your long term plan for your mother to be the primary caregiver for both kids, or are you thinking of going to a daycare situation at some point?

       1. Besides the question of mom taking care of pre-school kids, it may not be too long until the OP is thinking about how to take care of mom. My dad changes almost as fast as my son, but in the opposite direction.

    8. I would second staying where you are. Everyone is correct about residency. Additionally, depending on the medical school, your husband may be rotating at different regional hospitals for his clinical years. And his fourth year, he’s very likely to spend a lot of time traveling to interview. My SIL is about to graduate from medical school. She took one year in the middle of that to get an MPH at another university about 45 minutes from where they were living. She rotated around her state a lot for clinicals her third year. She actually did 3 several-week-long rotations in her chosen specialty at distant cities during the fall of her 4th year (I think). She spent most of the winter/spring traveling for residency interviews. Basically, she’s barely been “home” since she finished her academic years. And now, she’s matched out of state for residency, and they are moving. Of course, your husband may not do all that, and will be in a different program, but I wouldn’t make a decision based on the assumption that he won’t have to do all that.

    9. I’m very late, but another con of moving to a larger space is that you might not have #2 in two years (and even if you do, why move two years before you’re even planning to have another?).

12. Okay, this is a random one: any recommendations for a waist support belt? I’m not even sure that’s what they are called, but basically want to get something for my mom to help her with bending down and picking up the baby. She doesn’t have the best back and has said it’s been getting harder to do this now that my chubby little kiddo is getting older and, well, chubbier.

    1. Has she considered pilates to strengthen her abs? I know several middle aged/post menopausal women who have had good success. I would be cautious that a waist support belt could give her a false sense of confidence and she would overdo it with lifting.

       1. She is doing all sorts of stuff – lifting, stretching, etc. But she is watching my daughter once a week and wants to have something in the interim. I’m not too worried she will get over confident, she is very cautious generally.

    2. There’s no scientific evidence that back support belts reduce injury (see CDC link below), and at least some evidence that they could increase injury risk by limiting the natural range of motion. They’re not so comfortable, either. Your mother will be much better off modifying her behavior – for example, instead of lifting the kid from the ground, she can sit down and draw the baby onto her lap.

       1. link:

          http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/94-127/

       2. +1
          By discouraging the use of those muscles, these belts lead to weaker core muscles overall.

13. My boyfriend and I are in the “process” of getting engaged. We are taking a pretty non-traditional route. He wanted to get engaged but it felt a little rushed to me. He gave me an heirloom ring from his family. It’s a gold ring – not engagementy – and I’m wearing it on my middle finger. In the meantime, we are shopping for rings and planning to get “formally engaged” soon. This meaning, we announce it publically to the world.

    We both have, however, discussed the plan with our immediate family. Because we want to have a short engagement and get married soon thereafter, we’re starting to look at venues for autumn or winter. Everyone, especially my mom, is really confused about the whole thing. Are you engaged or not? Why are you picking out venues if you’re not engaged? Why are you being so unorthodox?

    I get that the whole “pre-engagement” thing is really silly, but it feels right for us. We both have some impulse control issues, and want to be sure that this is a thought-through decision. We’re seeing a therapist to talk through some pre-marital things. He also doesn’t want to be “engaged” until we have a ring, and wants to design something ourselves, which takes time. it’s our life; we can do whatever the h*ll we want!

    But family comments are becoming really exhausting. We are both crazy close to our families and want to share this important time with them, but it’s not working. Should we just stop talking to anyone about it? That’s hard to do, because we are both so excited. At this point, I think we’re just going to put a ring on it ASAP and call it an official engagement and get on with our lives, but why should we do our timeline on other people’s preference? Also, ironically, I have this concern that if we suddenly change the plan we have told our family, they’ll worry we are being impulsive or rushed. This is all so stupid and bridezillay and playing into the weird wedding industry. I hate it.

    1. Congratulations! You are actually engaged.

       1. Yes, this.

          1. And if you don’t get married, it’s because a lot of people use the engagement period to really hone in on whether it will work, whether it is too fast, whether they need to rethink. So this is totally normal. Not all engagements result in weddings.

       2. +1 yup! Highly recommend reading miss manners’ guide to a surprisingly dignified wedding. She answers your first question and will save you from the weird wedding industry nonsense. It might seem counterintuitive but read it anyway. Best wishes to you!

    2. So, my husband and I took a nontraditional route too. I got confusion from my friends, some judgment from people here, and I guess I think you have two choices. 1. Pretend you’re doing things mostly the traditional way. or 2, which is tell your loved ones what you’re doing and how you feel about it, and divert the conversation elsewhere when they get judgey about it. Or give an explanation that you know what you’re doing is hard to understand but it really works for you so you’d appreciate it if they could just give you their love and support.

       I was really annoyed at how rigid people are in their perspectives of things. I also don’t see the purpose or importance of a formal engagement unless it’s meaningful to you. I didn’t use the word “engaged,” I just said we were getting married sometime in the near future. But we also didn’t have a ring or a wedding, so YMMV.

    3. You are engaged. You are planning to get married and planning a wedding. Engagement is signified by a ring, it’s when you make the decision to get married.

       I’m also not sure what there is to share with your family about “this time”. If you aren’t engaged, then there isn’t anything to share. But yes, if you want your family to stop giving you confused questions, then stop telling them about your engagement until you consider yourselves actually engaged.

       1. I disagree with this. This is the sort of mindset that forces OP into either the “engaged” or “not engaged” box. Why does it need to be either? I would not necessarily expect randoms to understand that, but family should. We should stop putting people and their life decisions in convenient boxes.

          1. But there isn’t really a middle ground. It’s like being pregnant. You’re either pregnant, or you’re not. You’re either engaged, or you’re not.

             1. No it isn’t. Being pregnant is biological and observable. What does it even mean to be engaged? Someone told me once that I wasn’t engaged because I wasn’t planning a wedding and the fact that we didn’t have standing plans to get married in what they considered a reasonable time frame meant that we weren’t engaged. With regards to “reasonable time frame” I will say that most actual engagements lasted longer than what was the case with us.
                Relationship status isn’t as simple as single, dating, engaged, or married. IT is whatever you and your partner want it to be.

             2. That doesn’t change the fact that she’s either engaged, or she’s something else. All of the observable signs here point to engaged because she’s done a poor job explaining how wearing a symbol of engagement and planning a wedding are an unorthodox “something else” versus what most people understand as engagement.

             3. Sorry anonymous, but “engaged” means that you’re planning to be married, which is exactly what you’re doing.

          2. Why should their family understand that she’s wearing a ring and shopping for a venue but not engaged? Why is she is entitled to redefine words and decide what kind of feelings her family gets to have about something she has announced to them. If your partner doesn’t want to be engaged now and wants couples counseling, obviously you are inviting judgment and concern by going ahead and announcing you’re getting married and looking for venues. Seems like either extreme naivety or drama-seeking to expect otherwise.

             1. Okay, then she can choose option 1. She and her dude get to do whatever they want and consider themselves whatever they want though.

             2. Yeah obvi they get to do whatever they want. But they don’t get to dictate how their family feels about it.

             3. I agree with Anonymous at 10:36. You do you, but you literally cannot control how others respond/feel. Just stop talking to them about it !

          3. They chose to use the word, though. There are lots of ways to describe the state of their relationship that don’t include the word engaged. They just want the magical moment of opening the box of bling and then showing it off on her finger in the weeks after.
             OP- If that is important and the only way you feel comfortable talking about your intentions, pick a word like committed or serious or making plans and then wait for your bling box moment so you don’t have to be embarrassed about the ring situation.

    4. Ok, so both of you have said it feels rushed and that you don’t want to get engaged without a ring. And that you both have some work to do on impulse control. The ring isn’t the hold-up here and the venue planning is a distraction that frankly adds unnecessary stress/sense of urgency. You both need to be ready to be married. Focus on that first and then worry about getting your jewelry/venue in place.

       1. Yes this. The impulse control issue is telling your family and booking a venue before you consider yourself engaged.

          1. From a practical standpoint, to me, the word engagement = a commitment to get married, ring or no ring. If you don’t consider yourself engaged, then to me you’re not committed, and all the other stuff (venue, talking to families, etc) feels like you’ve totally jumped the gun.

    5. Yeah I share your family’s confusion — if you have decided to get married and are actively planning a wedding, you are engaged whether that’s what you call it or not. Congrats BTW!

       A college friend of mine did this because her BF wanted to “propose for real” in Paris over winter break, but she wanted to get married in June, so they booked the venue before she had a ring. Everyone was kind of like — ok but if you don’t want us to think of you as “engaged,” don’t tell us to save the date…

    6. For what it’s worth, we did the engagement in a more traditional way and people still had all kinds of things to say about it. I found that it was easier for me to only answer questions rather than offer up a ton of information unprompted.

       I am a firm believer that when it comes to weddings and babies everyone else has something to say about the way you’re approaching it. I think a lot of it comes down to two things: (1) people just want something to say/ask in response and (2) weddings and babies are such a personal thing that people feel like if you’re doing anything differently than the way they did it it’s an indictment on their life choices.

    7. You’re engaged and being weird about it. Just say you’re engaged and let that be the end of it.

    8. In addition to the other comments, I wonder if the reason you’re being so “unorthodox” is because you’re not actually ready/willing to get married.

       1. +1 . My husband really pushed for us to get engaged. We’re still married- sometimes happily sometimes not- but i still wish I had not rushed into it. Take your time and dont let yourself be rushed. You have lots of time ahead of you. And pursue the therapy!

          1. so much this. Do not get married if you are the slightest bit unsure. Especially post-kids- it’s not something easily undone and it changes the course of your entire life.

    9. You are engaged. You are actively planning a wedding. You’ve announced your engagement to your families. You don’t have to live life according to their timeline but you can’t insist they buy into your weird not real thing. If you aren’t ready to be engaged then don’t be engaged- don’t pick a venue, don’t tell people. You are the one making this weird and complicated.

       1. +1 Ring does not mean engagement, but is a symbol of engagement. All of those other things mean you are engaged/planning to be married by traditional definitions of “engagement”. You’re over complicating this.

    10. I think what you’re struggling with is the fact that venues book 1+ years out, so if you want to get married by the end of the year then you need to get on that right now. But you’re not quite ready to pull the trigger on being engaged yet. If that’s the case, and especially given that you struggle with impulse control, I think you should really reconsider your short engagement timeline. Just be engaged for a year. It doesn’t mean you have to spend a year planning a wedding, get the food and venue set up and then take a break. But I really don’t understand why you want to basically skip the whole being engaged period if you know you struggle with impulse control.

        1. So much this.

           I was with you, OP, on the pre-engaged/not quite ready/taking our time thing, UNTIL you got to the part about looking for venues for autumn/winter of this year. Huh? Booking a venue for your wedding, which you plan on having 6 to 8 months from now, is the literal opposite of “taking your time” on making the decision to get married. If you’ve booked a venue in 6 to 8 months, you’re getting married in 6 to 8 months, and it doesn’t matter whether you call yourselves engaged or pre-engaged or whatever. Your family is confused because your words are saying “we are taking this slow and trying to be cautious” and your actions are saying “marriage imminent, all systems go.” It’s not your language that’s confusing, it’s your actions.

           You’re not a special butterfly who is just too “unorthodox” to be understood – you’re just being confusing and contradictory. If you said “pre-engaged, taking our time,” and were, you know, actually taking your time, no one would be confused or bothered by your “unorthodoxy”, I promise.

    11. I sympathize, and you do mention that you don’t want to play into the wedding industrial complex, but unfortunately that’s what you are doing. A picture-perfect engagement story is not necessary to be engaged — all you need is a mutual agreement, which you already seem to have. You’re proceeding that way, hence everyone’s confusion. You may not have elaborate story to tell your grandkids about how you went on a beautiful night out where he got down on one knee and presented you with the ring of your dreams, but the truth is sweeter. You love and respect each other to discuss it at length and plan it together, rather than getting surprised and making an on the spot decision. Embrace it.

    12. I think it also sounds like you really want a MOMENT where you get to announce your engagement as a couple and celebrate with friends and family. Are you potentially a little frustrated/resentful that you did not get this moment b/c you did not immediately say an unconditional YES? I totally get that, but if you want to try to get that moment, I’d advise you to stop talking about the details/logistics with other people and focus on figuring out whether you really want to marry him. All of those conversations can take place with your significant other. After you figure it out, get the ring, then you can announce to great fanfare. I personally think the “wedding industry” thing is a red herring in your comment. Decide whether you want to get married, and when you have that decision, announce and move forward with planning. If venues aren’t available, then find another time.

    13. It sounds like your plan makes sense for the two and you, and that you are having a good time choosing the ring and making wedding plans – Congratulations!

        WRT your families: you can control who you let into this process, but the people you tell have free will and you can’t control how they react/respond. If it’s most important to both of you that you take your families along in the process, then continue sharing as much as you are and try to deal with the comments by responding to them pointedly or brushing them off which may reduce the number of comments or reduce the extent to which they bother you respectively. If it’s most important to you that you and your spouse get to enjoy this time together without comments/questions/pressure from family, then stop sharing with your family but continue sharing your excitement with each other so you both have an outlet. I don’t think there’s a third option where you can continue to share everything with your families and somehow force them to approve of everything and not make any comments or ask any questions.

    14. This is pretty much what we did–we knew we were getting married, but SO wanted to do an actual proposal, etc. We’ve been looking at venues for months (because places book forever far in advance), but only got “officially” engaged recently. We told our family and a few friends, but not the world (ie facebook) until I got a ring. Our family was surprisingly chill about this, probably because we’ve been dating for over a decade and I think “traditional” goes out the window after you’ve been dating that long. I know other friends have done something similar just because of how far in advance venues in certain places book. Just tell your mother you’re “unofficially” engaged or just ignore her.

    15. I absolutely did not want to be Proposed To, so my dude and I just talked about it and eventually decided to get married. We figured out the general outlines of how we wanted a wedding to go, and when and where, then we took my parents out to dinner (they were in our city for a visit) and announced that we were getting married. My mom jumped up from the table and yelled and kissed us and I consider that moment, as much as anything, “when we got engaged” because it was when we announced to our important people that we were getting married. (Afterward, my dude called his mom all excited, “ChiLaw and I are getting married!” His mom, “I know.” Dude, “But I mean, we are actually going to do it!” Mom, “yeah, I knew you would.” Not quite the same reaction!)

        We had every intention of getting married before that moment, but it was a general intention. I considered us “engaged” when we were taking that “yeah, we’ll get married” intention and turning it into a “we are going to plan a wedding ceremony” intention. Just my two cents!

    16. if you are actively planning a wedding, you’re engaged sweetheart.

    17. I’m approaching 50. Looking back, the main thing (under my control) that I would change about my life is not learning to take a few steps away from my mom’s criticisms. I’m working on it now, but maybe you could start intentionally not caring quite so much what she says now.

14. For those of you who bill time, how much do you worry about how many hours you have billed in a certain time period, and do you compare that to others in your peer group? As someone who is worried about partnership (and also have always exceeded expectations), I start getting anxious, not sleeping well, etc. when my hours are behind and I don’t know how to get over that. I also don’t think high hours are sustainable as I have young kids who are getting more homework, etc. And no, going in house is not an option for me unfortunately.

    1. I’m confused by your post because you say you’ve always exceeded expectations, but then that high hours aren’t sustainable?

       If you’re occasionally in a lull while others are slammed, I wouldn’t worry about it — I’m sure the oppos1te happens from time to time, right?

       If you’ve started consistently falling short or you’re not going to make hours overall in a year, yes I’d worry and I’d also consider whether to go on an 80% or 60% schedule for the time being.

    2. If you’re exceeding expectations, don’t worry about what the people in your peer group are doing. The most important relationships you can have at this stage are with the partners who will one day be voting on your partnership. If they’re happy with your work, your billables and your contribution to the firm, sleep well at night knowing that you’re doing a job well done.

    3. If high hours aren’t going to be sustainable for you because of your kids homework, at most firms you’re not on track for partnership. They key expectation is being a leader at money making. If you aren’t going to make that a priority you will not make partner.

       1. Unless you’re a rainmaker- then you may have more flexibility in billable hours.

    4. I don’t have kids, so I am asking this out of genuine curiosity – why does your kids’ homework get in the way of you billing? I understand wanting to be around more or not having childcare after school or something. But growing up I don’t recall receiving any help from my parents outside of enforcing quiet “homework time.” And some suggest that such help might even be bad for kids: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/11/12/should-parents-help-their-children-with-homework. Would it be helpful to just have “quiet time” for a few hours in the evening where you do your billable work and your kids do homework or read?

       1. Some homework they can do on their own but some require parental support in the way of buying materials (science projects, etc.), getting photos printed for projects, getting together with a classmate to do a group project, etc. We try to do these things on weekends, but that’s not always possible. We don’t have a few hours at night. We pick-up the kids at 6 and they go down by 8 p.m. and during those 2 hours, we are preparing and eating dinner, doing chores, practicing piano, and getting ready for bed.

          1. Wait wait. Kids who have an 8 PM bedtime have homework? UGH. That is crazy to me from a developmental standpoint. I’m so glad I went to an elementary school that did not believe in homework.

             1. I grew up in a district where we started getting homework in middle school. I don’t remember what time I went to bed in middle school, but I know I went to bed at 9 in high school so it wouldn’t shock me to find out I went to bed around 8 as a 6th grader. Middle schools, especially the younger grades, had lowest priority on gym use so I had to wake up every day by 5am for sports practice. I was wiped by 8.

             2. My kindergartener has a packet of homework (six worksheets or so) that she gets each week, plus 20 minutes of parental reading each night. That is very common at every public school of which I am aware. Private schools may be less rigorous with respect to homework.

                It’s hard because 1) kindergarteners are mostly, but not totally, capable of doing the work on their own; and 2) we pick up at 6 and have bedtime at 8. There is absolutely not enough time in the day to make this work. It’s actually something I worry about a lot.

    5. Your comment has a lot in it. I have a hard time being able to discern your seniority. Being anxious about hours relative to others in your group often depends on how senior you are (a first year has less latitude to lag behind than a 6th year known performer), but is also a know your office thing. If you are talking about partnership, I assume you are relatively senior, and should have a feel for whether your firm/practice group values contribution over churn at this point.

       But based on the rest of your comment (a throwaway line about the life not being “sustainable” and that in-house is not an option), my guess is that the hours are a way to direct the anxiety you feel about working in a big firm and not feeling like there is an “out.” If you really can’t leave the firm, then find a good cognitive behavior therapist to help manage the anxiety for you. When I felt trapped in a biglaw lifestyle that was eating up my time with my kids, I directed my anxiety toward money. I constantly worried about not having enough, fought with my husband about it (and how much he made), and lost sleep over it. A therapist friend called it “free flowing anxiety” – I was just anxious about life (bc BigLaw taught me to worry about everything), and that number in the bank was a tangible measure to watch and obsess about, which sounds like you and your hours. I wish I had found a way to deal with the anxiety, rather than finding something random to direct anxiety.

       Ultimately, I did leave BigLaw (after one particularly bad panic attack), and my anxiety about money melted away (even though we made far less than we ever did when I was at Biglaw). I encourage you to either find a good therapist to help you deal (make the time….seriously, your health and your family are worth it), or look hard at whether leaving is/should an option. I sometimes feel that old anxiety creep back in, but I can now trace it to specific events. It’s not my “baseline” state of being. I still don’t have great coping mechanisms, but the difference between how I *always* felt in BigLaw and how I usually feel now is striking.

       1. Thanks for sharing this. Did you ever feel financially ready to leave BigLaw? I have always been stressed about not having enough money, and am not sure when I will really feel comfortable jumping ship. Though now I’m wondering how much of this is related to my general anxiety amplified by my job.

          1. Not everyone can do this, but moving to a lower cost of living area helps tremendously. I left SF big law as a 6th year and bought a house in cash in a smaller Midwestern city. Not having any housing expenses beyond property taxes has made the enormous salary cut much easier. I’m not sure I would have ever felt ready to leave if I’d stayed in SF.

          2. After I had that big panic attack, my husband and I sat down and dug into our finances, hard. We came up with a few numbers – the most important was our “must bring home” number to cover the necessities, which was far lower than I every expected. We also came up with a comfortable number, where we could still afford some discretionary expenses, and looked hard at what expenses could go without moving. Importantly, we also considered what our expenses would be if we sold our house and rented (husband is tied geographically to our area, so moving to a LCOL city wasn’t an option for us unfortunately).

             That really, really helped me take control of the situation b/c shockingly, we could have afforded for me to stay home on his salary alone if we stripped away a lot of discretionary expenses. Granted, we would have had to put nearly all savings on hold, but we could have made it work and/or sold our house and lived more comfortably in a rental. At the time, I far out-earned him, which was a big source of resentment for me. I felt like I *had* to stay in BigLaw b/c he was not making his market (he was employed by a non-profit at the time and could have made more in a corporate position).

             Anyway, having that knowledge empowered me to job hunt in earnest, and for jobs that offered far less than I would have considered without an honest look at finances and open conversation with my husband. My husband and I also agreed to put a firm date on the calendar, and if I did not receive an offer before that date, I would have quit and stayed home. I took a vastly downshifted job about six months later. I made just enough to cover our childcare. And then, we just sort of put our savings on hold for a year or two. But life was SO MUCH BETTER. SO MUCH. Money and my husband’s salary, which had been a constant source of stress, just didn’t bother me as much. We cut a ton of expenses, and just slowed down for a while. I was happy in my position, and so was he, and we just focused on our kids and a slower pace of life for a while. It was wonderful, and totally eye opening that my job – not the money – had been the source of stress for me. Our finances were just a proxy for the stress.

             I credit my husband a lot with this. He forced the initial finance conversation, and was totally willing to do whatever it took to get me out of BigLaw. If we wouldn’t have been able to manage on his salary alone, he was willing to sell our house and rent for a while (looking back, I realize a lot of this is b/c I think I just sort of faded away under the pressure and he wanted our family back). If I didn’t have a partner totally on board, and who was willing to press the issue for me (I was probably too depressed to see my way out without him doing so), I think I would have forever assumed I “couldn’t” leave BigLaw. If you don’t have a partner on board, then engage a financial planner to help you. There are always options out, even if they seem extreme at the outset.

             1. Tell me more about your “downshifted job”? What type of position is it and are you still in that job? Because I tried going to a smaller firm where I wasn’t as busy, and it didn’t make me happier either, mostly because the work just wasn’t the type of work I wanted to do. I have solved that problem, but I think I just resent having to bill X number of hours every day and every week, and never feel like I can just a true vacation.

             2. That might be a key factor. I had to change the type of law I was practicing, but I was prepared to do that. If you have a specific type of work you want to do, finding a downshifted job will be harder (based on your location, probably). I left for a small think tank, and took a staff attorney position. Based on my experience, I was able to negotiate a better title and a set number of hours per week, but the work itself was not my ideal work. The firm cap on hours were worth the offset of type of work to me. My personal decision was that I needed a break and my family needed me more than I needed to practice a specific type of law. I took the long view – I tried to have everything, but I couldn’t manage it all at one time. I am still at the position, but am considering my next move. I feel recharged, and my kids are older. As they get ready to leave for college, I feel like I still have 20 years or more to dive back into a harder practice that is more time consuming.

             3. So interesting to read about your experience and the tradeoffs. I appreciate your perspective and your willingness to share your experience. I am going to try taking the long view as well and think hard about what I can really manage to do.

             4. Good luck to you! Leaving made all the difference. I did not realize how badly anxiety had permeated my life until I left. I have not had some of the same work successes as my former peers, but overall, I’m much happier on a day to day basis. I would not trade a manageable schedule for those few shining moments of career achievement. As for the therapist, there are a lot of work/life balance therapists out there, but even one who is not skilled in this exact issue can give you tools to manage anxiety. I think of cognitive behavior therapy as exercise – you train yourself to respond in a productive way to the anxiety. Eventually, it becomes easier as you get stronger.

             5. I’m dealing with depression and anxiety. I know 100% that an employment switch would make a huge difference. But I just.can’t.find.energy. It is a daily issue. Even doing laundry is a real struggle. Taking. time off just for that means I stay in b d all day. Where did you find the energy to job hunt? Any tips?

             6. Ps–I’m on antidepressants and Ritilan.

       2. Thank you for your comments. Yes, you hit the nail on the head on the anxiety. The main reason I can’t go in-house is not the pay actually. It’s that I lateraled a few times (and was even previously in-house, and then was laid off and could only find a firm job during the recession). With the number of year I have under my belt, I have too much experience for all of the corporate counsel positions out there (believe me I tried for a few years and in each instance, the hiring manager had fewer years of experience than me) and I’m competing with people who are partners for the GC and AGC positions. Whenever I talk to recruiters about openings, the presumption is that I want to go in-house because I’m being passed-up for partner, but the truth is that I was never put up at my previous firms because the person who would have pushed for me left to another firm or the firm or the group I was in was struggling and didn’t put up anybody. Anyway, I am a super-senior associate now, and I just need 3 solid years of high billables, but man, it is a rollercoaster. When there’s a lot of work, it is overwhelming. When there’s not a lot of work, it is even more stressful.

          1. I understand that. I don’t know if this makes it better or worse, but my dad was a partner in a mid-size, regional law firm, and he worried about billing hours until the day he retired (and he was in firm management and a rainmaker). To some degree, it’s just how they wire you. I seriously would consider cognitive behavior therapy. It will at least help you with tools to manage the anxiety rollercoaster, or identify the real issue.

             Also – can you look more broadly at jobs? Continue to engage recruiters, but keep in mind they are using a tried and true formula, and don’t usually don’t look creatively at the job hunting process (it’s easier to fit a round peg in a round hole, senior associate to GC or AGC makes sense, after all). If you really are ready to find something else, spend time with local job listings, but don’t limit to law. Granted, I live in a city with a lot of government and think tanks, but I applied for a lot of “analyst”/research policy positions, HR positions (I’m not an employment lawyer), and even as a writer for online parenting magazines. I just spent a lot of time with cover letters to demonstrate why my background would fit. I got rejected a lot, but did get interviews, and hit it off with a hiring manager eventually.

             1. That’s kind of what I’m afraid of – that I’ll be like your dad, billing until I retire, and I’m happy when my billables are high and unhappy when my billables are low. I thought about therapy, but I can’t really think of how a therapist would be able to relate to my weird issue of wanting to get more work, more clients, more billables, but never actually happy when those things happen.

          2. That’s a pretty limited slice of in-house interviewing experience, I think. I’ve practiced 8 years and report directly to the GC (who reports to the CEO). Others at my level has less experience and others have 20 years experience practicing. And none of us would care if the person we interviewed for a position was a different age/experience level, as long as that person was properly suited for the job…

15. Does anyone have this Boden dress? It’s beautiful, but Boden dresses always seem so high waisted to me. Any feedback?

    1. I bought this and Aurelia. Aurelia is great, kept it. This wasn’t as high-waisted as it was just frumpy. Wide skirt, sort of long. But free shipping and returns from Boden, right? Maybe it just wasn’t for me. I’m short and curvy, btw.

    2. I returned it and ordered a similar (but thinner material) dress from Uniqlo that I love (ponte dress with short sleeves).

       I can never wear Boden dresses. I look pregnant (sheath dresses) or just dumpy (this one). I’m 5-4, 125# and pear-shaped, but these magnify my tummy somehow.

    3. I do! I posted about it in a thread on Friday 22nd

       1. Wait, I mean Friday 8th. It’s thesis time, I can’t read a calendar any more.

16. Hopping off the wedding question above – my wedding is about a year away and we are locking down details. We live in NYC and have set a budget of 10-13k for simple wedding with 60 guests. This is much less than my parents have offered to chip in (25k). We’d rather save the extra cash for home improvements. Everyone I talk to says this is crazy and impossible. Family and friends are literally laughing at our budget, which makes me think I am completely missing something. Help?

    Here’s the current idea, almost all of it quoted from vendors:

    -Venue with tent, chairs, tables, and two on-site coordinators: 3800
    -Caterered local BBQ feast, delivery fee and set-up included, 20/head: 1200
    -Bulk flowers ordered online (300), arranged by his sister in pre-owned vases, plus other small decorative/floral touches/DIY bouquet, and picnic blanket tablecloths: 500
    -Professional wedding photographer close friend who is giving huge discount: 1500
    -Cousin’s DJ company, again with huge discount: 400
    -Inexpensive beer and wine for non-heavy drinking crowd, plus student to pour: 500
    -Student cellist for ceremony: 100
    -Rabbi: 400
    -Cheap Etsy or print-your-own invites and postage: 150
    -Nordstrom or similar short white dress plus alterations: 400
    -My shoes: 80
    -Heirloom family jewelry: 0
    -DIY makeup and hair: 50
    -DIY Cakes (I am talented baker): 80
    -Tux and shoes he already owns: 0

    = 9160 plus tips

    This doesn’t include rehearsal dinner, which his parents are covering. Or rings, which we are buying ourselves. Am I missing something huge of insane?? From everyone’s comments, I feel like I must be.
    Where did you wish you’d spent more or less at your own wedding?

    1. Which ones of these numbers are real, based on actual quotes? Where in NYC is this magically cheap venue?

       1. Agreed. Where in Ohio is this magical venue also, that includes site coordinators for that price?!

       2. The venue is a garden/historical house on border of Brooklyn and Queens. It does seem like a dream! They even give it to you the entire weekend – Saturday wedding and Sunday for cleanup.

          Official quotes are: venue, food, photographer, DJ, rabbi, flowers

          Estimated expenses from extensive research: booze, student cellist, invites, dress/shoes/hair/makeup, cake

          1. I think 9100 is unrealistic then. You just don’t know until you actually book things. Fortunately sounds like that’s actually fine! If your parents are giving you $25000, is it really a crisis if this winds up costing $12,000?

          2. Hi – could you send me the name/info for this magical unicorn garden/historical house?

             mskimmath@ google mail Thanks!

       3. I got married in a resort area in New England and our venue was only $2000 for the rental, which included chairs for both ceremony and reception, tables, on-site coordinator, etc….that price doesn’t seem that out of line to me. What kills the budget is the catering cost and OP is really saving in that area by having cheap food brought in. $20/head is a huge bargain.

    2. Are you going to have a ketubah? Nice ones can be several hundred dollars (or more) — but there’s definitely a range. I think many people count costs of rings, rehearsal dinner, etc., in the cost. Do you have a chuppah? Can you borrow one?

       1. No ketubah – it’s a mix of Jewish/secular elements. We are borrowing a chuppah from his sister but using his grandfather’s prayer blanket.

    3. Even if you’re a fantastic baker, consider whether you want to be dealing with making the cake a couple days before the wedding, when you’ll likely have 589 other things to deal with.

       1. Seconded. I went to a gorgeous small wedding that was DIY for many elements in Oct 2015. The bride had worked in a professional bakery and made the most amazing cakes (1 as a centerpiece for each table, so 15 cakes). But between the stress of doing those last minute (so everything was fresh), plus the zillion things she had to do probably led to her shingles two weeks after her wedding. Cannot emphasize enough how stressful a wedding can be, no matter how much planning you do!

    4. Oh, and don’t forget taxes. And automatic gratuities that could be added in addition to tips. Things add up.

    5. It sounds like you can come in well under budget, but a few things you might be underestimating/forgetting:
       -If it’s a Jewish wedding, are you getting a ketubah? Ours was around $400 and that was after we rejected our rabbi’s ideas for stupid-expensive ones and found a place on our own.
       -Do you need to provide yarmulkes for your guests during the ceremony? ours were ~$1/head
       -Our rabbi had a list of things we had to buy for the ceremony: breaking glass, wine goblet, etc. I think all told it was around $100 worth of stuff
       -You should get a small gift for people in the wedding party if you have one, although it doesn’t have to be expensive
       -Are you having a break between ceremony and reception (to do photos or yichud or anything else?) If so, you should probably provide some sort of food and/or alcohol during that time. it can be minimal, but guests should have something to do besides stand around
       -I think you’re probably underestimating the invite and postage costs – remember that you have to include a stamped return envelope as well for the RSVP.
       -Favors aren’t mandatory, but I think they’re nice. You can probably find something for $1/favor, so it shouldn’t be a huge expense
       -Do you REALLY want to make your own cake? in general, I’m all for cutting out things you don’t need and DIYing what you can, but that’s something that has to be done right before the wedding and seems like stress you don’t need. A basic wedding cake for 50 people can be had for a couple hundred bucks and it would be well worth that cost to me to free up precious time in the days right before the wedding.
       -Ask a friend to record the ceremony and speeches if applicable. We didn’t have a videographer (not because of cost but because I hate how I look/sound on camera) and I really regret that I don’t have my dad’s amazing speech recorded

       1. Thirding suggestion on not making your own cake, for the reasons others have provided. I’m also a talented baker, and have made wedding cakes for friends’ weddings. It’s stressful enough when you’re doing it for friends; I can’t imagine doing it for myself, when I’m busy/stressed about a million details/not sleeping well for prior two reasons. When we got married, my husband and I got a delicious cake from a shop–well worth the difference in money you’re claiming.

       2. I have a friend who did online RSVPs. It saved them a lot.

    6. The things that are making it a lot cheaper are the size and the fact that you got great discounts. For things that I think you are missing:

       Plates, forks, knives, napkins, glasses
       Non alcoholic drinks (water coffee lemonade sodas)
       Who is doing clean up? You have no waiters to clear the tables- do people do it themselves? If so hire someone to handle trash
       Who is getting the liquor license if you are having a student handle pouring? Is there a liability issue there?
       Who is cutting and serving the cake?

       1. These are great thoughts! Thank you…

          Plates, utensils, etc are provided in the catering cost, as are non-alcoholic drinks.

          On-site coordinators included in venue handle basic trash collection. We have the venue on Sunday for family to help final cleanup.

          Venue says no liquor license needed, as it is a private house.

          Our moms want to cut cake, to be put out as buffet. It won’t be tiered, so hopefully will be simple.

          1. I’m not a pro, but the “student pouring alcohol” is raising a flag, esp with no liquor license. Is a special insurance policy required?

             Also, I did the etsy/self print invites and it cost a lot more than that. Factor in table numbers, escort cards, and programs, too.

             1. Etsy may be more expensive, but the boxes of self-print wedding invitations from Target or Michaels range from $30-$50 per box, so $150 including postage is realistic for 60 guests as OP will only need 2 boxes.

                I ended up using self-print invitations from Target and used the leftover stationary for menu cards, table/name cards, etc.

    7. Well yeah, you acknowledge you’re getting huge “family and friends” discounts on a few typically-pricey items, and you’re going low-budget on other typically-pricey line items of dress, food (doesn’t mean it won’t be yummy, just that it’s cheap) and drink.

       You’re also going smaller than many weddings.

       So you’re comparing the typical $50-75K NYC evening dressy wedding for 100-150 people, to a casual cookout style wedding for a smaller crowd. Apples and oranges.

    8. You could probably find a dress for less. Don’t look for a traditional wedding dress; look for regular dresses that are white, or consider a bridesmaid’s dress which can often be found in white or ivory. Keep an eye out online for discount codes/coupons.

       1. +1. I got a great Vera Wang bridesmaids dress at Nordstrom for around $250. It would be a lovely wedding dress in white, beige, light pink…

    9. I think I have a guess of where your venue is. Stop telling people how low your budget is!! You are having a nice wedding. Don’t set their expectations on a cheap wedding.

    10. My wedding for 85 guests cost $10,000, so it can definitely be done!

        My thoughts:

        – Book your venue yesterday! It sounds like the deal of the century.

        – Make decor a separate line item – if your wholesale flower cost is $300, the remaining $200 will not go far for the floral supplies (oasis, floral wire, ribbon, boutonierre pins) plus tablecloths, table/name cards, and mason jars covered in lace or pinecones covered in glitter or whatever else Etsy/Pinterest can dream up. Words to the wise, I started off with a flower/decor budget of $500 and ended up spending closer to $1000.

        – $500 for beer and wine and a qualified bartender (who you really want to hire for social host liability purposes even if an SOP is not required) is probably unrealistic. I’d budget $10/guest plus the cost of the bartender. If your guests don’t drink it all, you can return it, but you don’t want to run out!

        – $50 for hair and makeup may be low as well – your wedding it outside, you will be kissing/hugging/crying a lot, you will have hundreds of photographs taken of you and will treasure those photographs forever! A good quality waterproof mascara and make-up setting spray alone will set you back $50. Also, only do your own hair and makeup if you already enjoy doing your own hair and makeup. If you don’t, you’re not going to enjoy the experience of standing in your bathroom not being able to get your hair or eyeliner an hour before your wedding.

        – I totally get why you’re trying to make the cake yourself. I’m a baker too and have made many wedding cakes for OTHER people, but the closer your wedding gets the more you are going to regret this decision. The cake can’t be made weeks or months ahead of time and checked off your list – you’re going to be dealing with this the day or two before your wedding when things are the busiest and most stressful (and things do get really busy with a DIY wedding!) I recommend ordering your cake, but ordering celebration cakes instead of a tiered wedding cakes which dramatically reduces the price.

        – Your budget doesn’t include programs for the ceremony, wedding party gifts or guest favours. This may be a choice, but I mention them just in case it was an oversight.

        Congratulations!

        1. +1. Really consider hiring someone for makeup/hair unless you are a professional makeup artist. Speaking from personal experience here, wearing makeup daily and makeup for a big event like a wedding are two totally different things. I wish I had hired a professional makeup artist for my wedding. Pictures were fine but could have been a lot better had I had better makeup.

    11. This doesn’t sound unreasonable to me – I eloped, but had a dinner party for 50 at a restaurant in a private room, which came in around 9K & was quite similar to a wedding reception, except no dancing. My only suggestions on your budget/plans would be to hire someone else to clean up on Sunday – the last thing in the world you or your family members will feel like doing is cleaning up after yourselves. Pretty sure you can get Task Rabbit in NY & that’s a great place to source something like that inexpensively.

        1. +1 One of my friends used me and other friends as set-up and clean-up crew for her wedding and it really sucked (for us, that is. I’m sure the free labour was great for her.) If you ask people, they’re unlikely to say no because they love you, but they won’t actually enjoy it.

           1. Yes. My BFF did her welcome dinner (for a huge number of people) on the cheap. The bridal party did all the set-up and clean-up and it sucked.

              1. Are you me? This was me very recently, and it was exhausting. It was the only wedding I’ve ever been to (regardless of budget) that was like this.

        2. PS – I meant to say the dinner party was one of those “after the fact” events. Also, agree with others that you might not want to be baking much around your wedding either. I meant to, and never got organized enough, order a wedding cake from Momufuku Milk Bar in NY – their bday cake as a wedding cake was a pinterest idea I fell in love with.

    12. This is completely realistic. Most of your expenditures are very similar to my own. I know some people have said that doing favors would be nice, but I totally disagree. They’re a waste of money, a pain in the butt (got to remember to put them out on tables and then people always leave them behind), and no one will notice if you don’t have them.

        I suggest getting your wine at Trader Joe’s. Ask the wine person there for a bunch of bottles in the $5 range to taste. They’re super helpful and will take back anything that you don’t drink.

        Only things I think you’re missing are table numbers and place cards (that have guests’ table numbers on them). I bought both off Amazon for cheap. I assigned a friend to set out the place cards in alphabetical order and then people picked them up and knew what table to sit at.

        I didn’t do programs and don’t regret it, but I can see that being something you might want to do if you have a lengthier ceremony. I imagine it would relatively easy to print these yourself.

        So happy that you’re doing BBQ for the food!!! The wedding I went to with BBQ was the best wedding food I ever had…

        I do agree with hiring someone to clean up. Doing it yourself the day after is no fun. You (and your family and friends) will want to spend that time hanging out instead.

17. Moved to DC almost a yr ago and I feel like my life is going to work (near the Capitol) and going home (close in Arlington) – so whenever I’m in the city it’s only underground for the Metro. Life is dragging and I need to clear my head and think and make some life/career decisions. When I lived NYC I did this literally by wandering the city, going to coffee shops etc. For whatever reason it’s easier for me to clear my head outdoors (but in the city — I’m not a nature/hiking/mountains kind of person).What’s a good place to wander after work — where I can walk (safely – so not NE) ; maybe get food etc. but still catch the Orange/Silver line home? Seems like next week will be nice warm weather finally and I’d like to get out a bit yet don’t know where to go.

    1. The mall doesn’t do it for you? It’s easy if you’re near the Capitol.

       I love it in the evening and early morning. There’s a quiet that’s really inspiring.

       Note: there’s very little inspirational about the mall when it’s 90° out and hot, sticky children are everywhere crying. Definitely a “choose your time” thing ;)

       The Capitol grounds are very pretty, too, and safe for night walking since there are police every few yards. (Obv be a smart adult.)

    2. Through Georgetown to Rosslyn?

       1. Yep, walk home and vary your route. One day walk through north Georgetown. Another day take a side loop around Roosevelt Island. Or walk over the 14th St bridge and through Crystal City before going home.

          Also if you are up for biking, there are a ton of trails in Arlington. You could metro home, change, and then pick up a bikeshare bike and do a couple hours on a trail.

    3. Eastern Market! Right near the metro station of the same name that services Blue/Orange/Silver lines, safe area (within limits, like all of DC), 20 min walk from the Capitol, food galore, and try Peregrine Espresso for coffee.

    4. do you bike? the bike trail that runs through arlington (custis i think it’s called?) is very nice and long and peaceful for safe riding (aka no cars to worry about). i used to also like taking walks to arlington cemetary or the monuments (lived in courthouse). teddy roosevelt island is nice to explore but probably not so much for a weekday night walk since it can get empty. i also really enjoyed going to the zoo and there are some walking paths near cleveland park (incredibly hidden and refreshing actually! you can do the whole thing and only see a few people). upon looking at google i think it was the melvin c hazen trail. i ultimately ended up moving to woodley park because i liked wandering the zoo and neighboring green space so much.

    5. Maybe Metro Center to Farragut? I take the Red and Orange lines (I live in Rosslyn) to work, and often walk the Dupont to Farragut North or Farragut North to Farragut West stops in nice weather. There is plenty of shopping to browse, or a few restaurants (although it dies down at night so be careful how late you’re out).

       For head-clearing walks, downtown is still my favorite place. I’ll start at the Folger Shakespeare Library and walk to Metro Center. The Botanical Gardens are great, as is the Georgetown Waterfront (can be crowded though).

    6. Yes to Eastern Market! But I suggest you go to 8th Street. Google Barrack’s Row – Ted’s Bulletin and Rose’s are wonderful. Eastern Market is still your metro stop (the map online is helpful), but you’ll find a much livelier after work scene than the Market itself (which is great for weekend mornings).

    7. How close in are you? DH and I both run or bike home most days… It saves time and is much more pleasant than the metro!

    8. The Tidal Basin is nice (maybe not right now because Cherry Blossoms) but I love my walks there. Eastern Market is nice, too (though crowded on the weeekends). The thing I love about D.C. is that you can just walk around (especially in the Capitol Mill/National Mall area) and have the space to think and get to know the city better.

    9. When I lived in DC I used to wander around the mall and the botanical gardens all the time. Great people watching and it was nice just to walk around.

    10. If you are up for a pretty long walk, I really enjoy the walk up from the Farragut area through Adams Morgan to Woodley Park (across the calvert bridge) and then back down Connecticut/back streets to Farragut. I’d do that walk just about any time of day/night. For a longer walk still you can take Calvert across Connecticut, cut through the neighborhood and end up at the Naval Observatory, then walk down Massachusetts to Dupont and back down to Farragut. Gorgeous!

    11. I used to have your commute (but starting from Farragut West). On a nice day, I’d walk down K and through Georgetown and over the Key Bridge.

        After dark, I’d just watch out going over one of the bridges to Georgetown b/c it seemed like a lot of people lived under it. But so, so pretty walking over the Potomac.

    12. In addition to Eastern Market, which I absolutely second, I would walk from the Capitol to Penn Quarter, wander around the portrait gallery and in the courtyard there, and then grab coffee at Chinatown Coffee Company or Bakers and Baristas, or drink a fancy cocktail at one of the Jose Andres restaurants, or a cheap beer at Iron Horse, then walk to Federal Triangle to go home.

    13. Do you have a car? When I did a summer in DC I would get up super early on Sunday mornings and drive around the city. It helped me get the lay of the land as far as where things/areas were in relation to each other, and discover stuff around different metro stops that I wanted to see.

    14. Ride the metro up to 14th and U, pick a place, which you can do pretty much at random, to have a drink and some food, then walk down 14th to Metro Center. It’s about 1.5 miles. But I am more of a city than nature person and really enjoy just walking down the street looking at buildings and marveling at how much 14th Street has changed in the ~16 years I’ve been here. Where there once were hookers, there is now a La-Z-Boy store.

18. I think I’ve realized that I have no idea how to dress my body.

    The only thing I feel actually flatters me is workout clothes, which obviously aren’t appropriate for work. People see me in a bathing suit, or leggings, and say things like “I had no idea you were so in shape”, so I must be doing something wrong.

    1. How loose do you wear your clothing? This is very much a personal, comfort-based decision, but if you tend to wear looser clothing I wouldn’t at all be surprised that people don’t realize how in-shape you are because your body’s lines are hidden.

    2. If you’re hourglassy, you have to wear stuff that is fitted at the waist. It took me forever to figure that out, obvious as it may be.

    3. What do you normally wear and what is your body shape? Some things like button-down shirts need tailoring to really skim most figures. You can probably try changing the silhouettes you wear.

    4. You could try booking a personal shopping session at Nordstrom or another store to have someone with experience help you figure out what looks good.

    5. True leggings may not be work appropriate, but depending on your office and dress code, more nipped in pencil pants may be the answer. I have several pairs, all with some degree of elasticity, and they show off my shape a bit more than traditional work pants. Or is it just fit? Are you buying things too large?

    6. I wouldn’t say you are doing anything wrong, but if you are having trouble dressing a muscular frame, I would suggest buying items that fit your widest section (e.g. shoulders), and have them altered to fit. Although I do not care for my co-workers to know what shape I am in (I prefer not to hear everyone’s opinions on muscles, good or bad), I also do not want to look like I don’t know how to dress myself by having everything look oversized.

19. I’m looking for a multi-coloured jacket that I can wear with my various solid sleeveless sheath dresses (which right now are black, navy, grey, dark-ish green and red). I’m thinking a multi-coloured tweed or even floral jacket might be able to provide my sleeve solution for all of them, which would be great as my apartment is tiny and my closet space is tinier. Has anyone seen something like this? I’m looking to spend around $200.

20. Good luck on the surgery and recovery Kat! With two little ones, I’m sure it will be a challenge.

21. Anyone had a dog with recurrent UTIs? Our poor pup is on her third in less than a year. I feel terrible that she’s suffering but I also feel bad for my wallet – each UTI necessitates a vet visit, a urinalysis to confirm the bacteria, antibiotics and a follow-up visit and urinalysis to determine that the infection has cleared, which is costing us several hundred dollars each time. I’m going to talk to the vet about this too of course, but if anyone has any success stories of preventative home remedies (can dogs take cranberry supplements like humans?) I’d love to hear.

    1. Try giving her distilled water instead of tap water. The tech at the vet’s office recommended it when we were in the same situation with our cat and it cut them down to every other year or so until he got to about 15, when they became more frequent.

       1. Thanks! Stupid question: is distilled water the same as filtered? We serve her what we drink, which is water filtered by our refrigerator’s built-in filter.

          1. No.

    2. Yes! My dog had this problem and the solution for us was really simple – she needed to regularly drink lots more water. She gets fed dry food 2x/day and I started adding copious amounts of water to her food. Cereal-to-milk kind of ratio. Because it’s with her food, she gulps it all down. She has to go out a little more often, but this helps flush her system. I’d rather take my dog out several times a day than spend hundreds on vet bills!

       Not sure what kind of dog you have, but I also started keeping mine shaved short around her potty area. Whenever there is a little gunk back there, I use a baby wipe to gently remove it from her fur. Keeping her extra clean in that area seems to help bacteria to build up.

       Hope this helps!

       1. Thanks! This is a great idea. We have a hard time getting her to drink, and her pee is generally quite concentrated and yellow (even when she’s not sick).

          1. You can also try putting a little peanut butter in her water bowl to get her to drink more.

       2. Also try adding a cranberry supplement to her food. Solid Gold makes a good one in power form it’s called Berry Balance. Easily findable on Amazon

    3. Has she been eating the same food for a while? Our dog suddenly started getting recurring ear infections and UTIs and the vet recommended changing her food. We did, and the UTIs/ear infections have almost completely cleared up. Ear infections still occur occasionally, but that’s partly due to her ear type. We switched her over to a combination of Honest Kitchen and Solid Gold.

       1. She’s had UTIs while on a couple of different brands of food, but I’ll check with the vet to see if there’s something specific they recommend. Thanks!

          1. One of my dogs got recurrent UTIs and had to be put on a food made specifically for dogs who have that problem. Hers have almost completely cleared up–she’s had only 2 in the last 10 years since we started her on the food.

    4. Second getting them to drink more water. I got my cat a water fountain when she stopped drinking. She drinks at least double what she used to on a daily basis. When the fountain stops working, she goes back to not drinking. Silly fickle cat. But it works.

       1. Second the water fountain and adding water to her food. My dog wasn’t drinking nearly enough and this has helped immensely. I add at least a cup of water to her wet food and have the fountain going all day.

    5. On the drinking more idea, I’m not sure if you’ve ever given your dog ice but ours loves it and it is our go-to when he is not feeling well/potentially getting dehydrated because he will lick ice cubes even when otherwise not eating or drinking. Try giving ice cubes throughout the day to add to overall water consumption.

    6. Ditto re increasing water intake. My pup was also eventually diagnosed with horrible allergies. Now that we have those under control…he hasn’t had another UTI.

22. How much does (or should) salary affect your work/life balance and boundaries on your job? I’m the breadwinner, in a large regional law firm, and I feel like I’m paid a premium to be available to work long hours and to, if necessary, work late or on weekends and to be responsive during vacations. Based on a recent thread on availability, many people seem to feel the same way.

    Is the reverse true? My husband gets paid significantly less than I do ($42K in a LCOL area, no benefits, 10 paid vacation days, working many holidays) working as a manager for a struggling small business. Since I’m the breadwinner and need the flexibility, we agreed that my husband would be the primary person to be home on time to meet the nanny, handle childcare on weekends, if I have to work, etc. His salary is about 25% below market (he took a 25% pay cut about a year ago). He works 5 days per week, supposedly 9:00-6:00 with no lunch, but he often stays 30-45 minutes late, texts and emails from home, and goes in on his day off. I’m a little grumpy with all of that and think it’s too much. Already, it’s affecting my ability to do my job well, since I have to cover for him when he’s supposed to be off but has to respond to calls, emails, texts, etc.

    Now his boss (the business owner) is asking him to come in a couple of hours early everyday for who-knows-how-long to work on a project that is not at all in my husband’s area of expertise and is not at all part of his job description because the company can’t afford to contract the job out. My husband thinks he could probably figure it out with trial and error and get it done with lots and lots of time, but he’s not sure how long it will take, what the pitfalls are, etc. Assuming he’d like to keep this job, does it make sense for him to push back here? Am I off-base thinking that he should just say he’s unavailable to work 12-hour days for a project that isn’t “supposed” to be his job, when he’s already underworked and overpaid? Or should he expect to work long hours and do whatever is asked of him as long as he’s getting paid the salary he agreed to, until he’s ready to quit?
    For some context, there’s no money in the business for a raise–they’re barely keeping the doors open. There is also no cash to contract this project out. His boss is under a lot of pressure from one of the investors to get this project done, but IDGAF. My husband doesn’t really need this job but is very emotionally (but, thank goodness, not financially) invested in the business’s success. He’s looking for another job, but not that aggressively, and probably wouldn’t leave voluntarily for anything other than his dream job. His boss isn’t really in a position to fire him, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t.

    1. Does your husband actually WANT to be primary childcare guy? Because the way he’s acting, and the job he’s chosen, suggests to me that he definitely does not.

       Maybe it’s time to look into putting his salary towards a second (part-time) nanny, or additional backup childcare of some other kind, because your H does not sound like he wants to back off at work, and no matter what you or I or anyone on this site thinks about the reasonableness of that, if that is the case, it’s the reality you have to work with.

       Reframe it from his perspective for a minute: He’s working in a company he feels emotionally invested in, doing work he likes, and now he’s being offered the opportunity to expand his skills with a project that a “regular” employer probably would never let him do – if your H was a poster on this site asking us if she should take her H’s advice and turn down the project, we’d all be jumping up and down screaming no way and telling her to figure out backup childcare and blah blah blah, because CAREER GOALS and PERSONAL AMBITION IS GOOD and whatever. The answer shouldn’t change just because you are the wife and the lower earner/childcare point person is the husband.

       1. Don’t disagree with KKK’s perspective, but my first instinct was that your H was a people pleaser, who has a hard time saying no, and that he wasn’t necessarily jazzed up about doing all this extra work but somehow felt he had to. If that’s the case, I would say that he should gently say no (your employer will take 100% of your free time and energy if you let them), and risk losing the job, which wouldn’t be all that big a deal if he’s willing to watch the kids and you guys can let the nanny go. That’s about 180 degrees different from KKK, but it really depends if he wants to lean in or if he’s just doing it because it’s hard not to keep the boss happy, even when his own personal sanity (and yours) might be sacrificed.

       2. All good points. I don’t think he really WANTS to be primary childcare guy, but financially we’re stretched very thin right now and can’t afford more childcare. (Since his pay cut, we pay our nanny more than his after-tax take-home.) I don’t think he wants to take on this project either, at least outside of his normal work hours (already probably 55 hours/week). He gets pretty stressed that he’s being asked to do more, by his boss and by me. I think what my husband really wants is a nap. (Don’t we all?) Honestly, I think if he were to come to this board for advice, we’d all be advising him on various forms of self-care, and maybe encouraging therapy.

          1. I think you pretty much missed KKH’s point though. You can’t use this logic: “we pay our nanny more than his after-tax take-home.” If a poster said her husband was using that as rationalization for her taking on more of the childcare at the expense of work, people would be attacking him and telling her to get a divorce.

             1. That part was just responding to KKH’s specific suggestion that we put some of his salary toward a second part-time nanny. There’s nothing left, until we get our son into daycare in the fall.

                But, in general, I think you and KKH are probably right. Part of my question was, how much should relative salaries affect our negotiation of how much each of us works? Many posters agree that taking a top-of-the-market salary at a law firm comes with the expectation that we are available. My husband and I are facing the very real problem that we are struggling to find the time to both meet our boss’s expectations and care for our child, and we’re out of money to throw at the problem. We have to renegotiate. I’ll leave relative salaries out of the negotiation, try to listen to what he wants, and let him handle his boss.

             2. I mean, on the one hand, the “breadwinner” income is arguably more important to the family (at least from the perspective of literally being unable to afford to lose the “breadwinner” job), but on the other hand, I think availability isn’t 100% dictated by salary. Yes, if a giant law firm is paying you $200K a year, part of that $200K pays for your 24/7 availability, but there are lots of other (lower-paid) industries where it’s still not outside the norm to provide the same availability to your employer for a lot less pay (I started my working life in public relations, and a lot of agencies expected extreme availability for – by most standards – teeny, tiny entry level salaries – pushing back because “you’re only paying me $35K/year” would’ve been the equivalent of buying yourself an express pass to the head of the unemployment line).

                If this is the kind of availability your H’s workplace expects, and he doesn’t want to quit or lose the job, then your only option, it seems to me, is to figure out how to make your actual schedule work, instead of focusing on the made-up-in-your-head schedule that you (and maybe your H, too) wish you had instead.

             3. Thanks again, KKH. His current hours and expectations of availability are close to the norm in his industry, although he could definitely find a job where he was better compensated for those hours. The additional couple of hours a day on Project is completely outside the norm — and, to be clear, he does not want to take on extra hours. I was looking for perspective on whether it’s OK for an employee to push back. It sounds like the answer is, “No.” So my advice to husband will probably be, “Do Project because boss has decided it’s part of your job, and if you don’t like the job anymore, find another one.”

          2. SC, I’d actually refine that slightly – “Do Project because Boss has made it part of your job, *if* it’s important to you to keep this job. If you’re ok with the prospect of losing your job before you’ve found something new and possibly being a SAHD for some period of time until you find something new, push back.”

             Basically, the option I think you want that isn’t actually available is “push back because you’re totes justified and your boss is cray and you definitely won’t lose your job.”

    2. If you were your husband and you were saying you resented these extra hours that aren’t part of your job description, I would commiserate and maybe advise you to push back (depending on how much you need the job). But you’re not. You’re the spouse of the person in this job situation, and frankly you seem to resent that your husband enjoys and is willing to go above and beyond at a job that doesn’t pay that well. I don’t know any Americans who don’t occasionally have to “respond to calls, emails, texts” during non-working hours. That’s not a large law firm thing. That’s a US in 2016 thing. Your description of having to “cover for him when he’s supposed to be off” is as offensive to me as men who describe spending time with their children as “baby-sitting.” You both have jobs, you both have demands from your bosses outside of your standard work hours, you need to fairly apportion your lives and childcare. It shouldn’t be all his responsibility, and you’re not doing him a favor when you help out. I sense a lot of disdain for him because he’s in this job that you don’t seem to value at all, and I think that’s the first thing you need to address, before you worry about external pressures from his boss.

       1. Thanks. He does resent some of the extra hours, especially not being able to eat lunch, and emails, calls, and texts about stuff that could be discussed anytime. And more than resenting the time, I think he resents being understaffed in general and feeling like he can’t keep up with everything or do his actual job well. He does not want to work extra hours to do this project, but he would rather not get fired for not being willing to work “hard.”

          We had supposedly worked out a schedules where we share childcare fairly. He works Saturdays while I watch the baby, and I work Mondays while he watches the baby. I have early nights on Thursdays and Fridays while he stays late. I don’t see any of that as me “helping out” or “babysitting” or “covering for him.” But, for example, on Monday morning, as I was about to leave for work, his boss called with a totally created “emergency,” my husband yelled at me to stop what I was doing (putting my coffee cup in the sink), put the baby in my arms, and he went out on the porch and talked for 30 minutes so I was 30 minutes late to work. On Mon-Wed nights when he says he’ll meet the nanny, he’ll text when he’s supposed to be leaving (at 6:00) and say he’s running late. It takes me longer to get home, so I have to leave right that minute to meet her on time. Those are examples of covering for him–he has some last-minute thing come up and all of a sudden can’t do what he says he’s going to do. If I had a last-minute thing come up on Friday, and he left early, I’d say he was covering for me.

          1. Ok, with the additional details provided, I do agree he’s being unreasonable. If you’ve agreed that he does childcare on Mondays, he shouldn’t be bailing at the last minute and leaving you with the responsibility (and why couldn’t he take the call while holding the baby!? That’s just nonsensical). I don’t think who earns more is really the relevant issue, but the fact that he’s backing out of things he said he’d do is certainly problematic, regardless of your respective incomes.

    3. I think the operative phrase her is “assuming he would like to keep his job.” We went through something very similar (although we don’t have kids, his job is significantly lower in salary and allows more freedom to do errands, etc). I felt that his decision should be based on how invested he felt with his company, and he decided to hunt aggressively for a new job, which took 4 months and he is now much happier, working on a specifically-scoped project, and (ironically) better paid. If, however, your husband is truly invested in this position and company, maybe it will be a matter of buckling down and waiting it out in the near-term.

       1. * here … ugh (thought I double-checked!)

       2. He’s been looking, but not aggressively. Every few months, he’ll get angry with his boss does and make some calls, and he’s interviewed for maybe half a dozen jobs. He’s turned down 2 not-great offers. We could afford for him to not work, but he doesn’t want to be a SAHD, and paying more for a nanny than he makes is very temporary anyways.

    4. Wrong question. This isn’t a work issue this is a marriage issue. Ok, fine, he wants to do this. What is his plan for handling his home responsibilities? Because just shifting them to you isn’t available. Does he think you can afford a second nanny? Does he expect you to work less? Does he magically think you are superwoman? Ask those questions.

    5. We have a similar situation, and to answer your question: No, lower pay does not necessarily get you better work/life balance. My husband earns about half what I do, and I by far have the better hours, predictability, flexibility, benefits. The difference is our profession. The work/life balance for his profession is insanely poor. He has taken a pay cut for a relatively good position, but it’s still lousy.

       I can commiserate with you. It IS frustrating to know that you are both primary breadwinner and yet still the one who has to bend to the hours and needs of the job of your spouse and co-parent. But if he’s going to keep this job, that’s what it is and you all need to work with it.

       I would consider what others have said about finding out what your husband’s real priorities are. If he genuinely wants to prioritize being home, then he has to push back on this project and seriously look for new work (and assess whether a new job would actually be better). If he genuinely wants to prioritize his success in this position, then you AS A FAMILY need to figure out how that’s going to work.

       I really am sorry, though. I have had the experience of taking PTO from my bread and butter job so that he could work unpaid time, and it’s awful. It’s also not sustainable. We developed our plan, and it’s working, but I still periodically need to communicate that I genuinely need more time at my job, so he needs to raise to the occasion (and he does – even if that means he’s in the office all weekend). You really seriously need to work out a plan with your husband that will work for everyone.

       1. Thank you.

       2. hoopa hoopa is very wise. I am in a similar position – I am breadwinner, but husband is in a very complicated, high-level job with lots of off-hour demands. It can be so frustrating to feel like you’re expected to simultaneously be the default parent and the default breadwinner.

          It sounds to me like your husband needs to be looking for a new job. He clearly enjoys working and gets something meaningful out of a high-pressure situation. He should find work that compensates him for all of the good work and extra hours he’s putting in. More compensation allows you guys to get more childcare. For example, we have an evening nanny 2x/week, which allows us both to have long days at work (which turns out to be essential to our work happiness.) I understand that he feels emotionally invested in his work. That’s a great asset for him. He should find a job where his work will give back as much as he’s putting into it. That may be salary; it may be free time; it may be other benefits. (My DH works at an educational institution. Not a ton of salary, but free healthcare! We factor that in to the total value of his job. My job has great salary, but not great benefits.) There are lots of ways to think about the value of work. But it seems clear that his job is not giving him enough in benefits to justify the hours/energy/skill he’s putting into it.

          Also, I gently disagree with others who said that salary is irrelevant. Salary is not the only consideration, but it is a relevant one. Your family depends on your job. If his job demands are preventing you from meeting your job demands, it is appropriate to discuss, as a family unit, whether that makes any sense at all. This conversation requires two things: 1) You have to think of yourselves as Team LastName, not as two people in a bilateral zero-sum negotiation; and 2) You both have to be willing to think about what your jobs REALLY require, to see how much latitude you can give to the other person. I should go to all the client development/professional development events in my city. I just should. But I don’t, because it’s not a hard-and-fast requirement of the job and my family/kids need me to spend that time differently. This new project for him might be similar.

          1. Thank you. Lots to think about. It’s definitely a lot of pressure to be both the breadwinner and the default parent. I agree that husband is not getting enough benefit (either compensation, benefits, or time/flexibility) for his job. He agrees in theory, but like I said above, sometimes things get better for a while, and he backs off the job search. It’s also been hard to look for a job when he’s working so much, and he doesn’t have a private office for emails or phone calls.

23. I feel like I’m giving my manager management advice and it’s driving me crazy.

    I’m a Manager level employee that works on a contract basis and I’ve been with my organization for 3 years. I was previously a full time employee in the same roll and moved to contract about a year ago after having a baby. The previous Director took a new job about a year ago and a new Director was hired. The new Director is sharp technically but lacks people and management skills. She’s been talking to me about how the employee hired to replace my full time position has been coming in late and not putting in her 40 hours (it’s our slow time right now). My replacement is very sharp and is doing a great job as far as work product, etc. goes. I’m essentially my replacement’s peer now so I think this is inappropriate that the Director is talking to me about my replacement. This is just one example, she talks to me about my replacement’s performance all the time and I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t talk about me to others. It’s just annoying and unprofessional. How do I shut this down and still be professional?? I feel like she wants to vent and has no one to vent to so she vents to me.

    “It makes me uncomfortable when you discuss other employees’ performance or shortcomings with me. I understand you feel like you need to vent but it makes me uncomfortable.” Does that work???

    Instead I feel like I’m teaching her how to manage and I just need to say what I feel above. Instead, I’m saying, “well is this a bone you want to pick? I feel like you have to decide what is important and what isn’t when you’re managing people. I feel like replacement does a great job and gets the work done and buckles down when necessary. Push face time if you feel like it’s necessary but if it were me I’d leave it alone.”

24. I’ve been offered a GC position in Milwaukee. Can anyone comment on the type of lifestyle that I should expect apart from the weather? We have three daycare aged children and my SO works from home and can work from anywhere in the United States.

    The job is perfect, hours manageable but my SO is very reticent given the fact that we would be leaving Southern California weather.

    1. The weather is ROUGH, especially if you’re coming from Southern California. I think Milwaukee is a nice small city. There’s certainly stuff to do. It doesn’t have as much going on as the LA area does in terms of culture and entertainment and all that, but the proximity to Chicago (a little over an hour) means it’s one of the better places to live in the Midwest if you care about that stuff. People are nice but reserved, which I think is pretty uniformly true in the Midwest. Milwaukee is more ethnically diverse than much of the Midwest but I’m not a minority, so can’t really speak to that aspect of it. The office culture tends to be a little more formal, especially in terms of dress. What a Californian in Big Law would wear Mon-Thurs would be more like casual Friday wear in Milwaukee.

    2. Many years ago a friend of mine moved from SoCal to St. Paul, Minnesota to take a job with West Publishing. I will never forget the winter day she called to tell me her take on the weather: “I’m dead, and I’m in hell.”

       Just sayin’…

       1. Ha- this is EXACTLY how my husband looks at it. And another negative would be the lack of good sushi.

          1. Is H an outdoors-activity person? That’s a lot of what the Upper Midwest has to offer – lakes for fishing/boating, camping, state parks/forests. Yes, it will be cold part of the year (and frigidly frozen for a few periods during that), but it eventually leaves, and makes spring/summer that much more enjoyable.

          2. But there’s Friday fish fry! ;)

    3. I live in the Chicago area and I like Milwaukee. There are some really nice places to live in short commuting distance to the city, the cost of living is reasonable, and the state is in decent financial shape (compared to Illinois, anyway). You’ll have good public university options when your kids get there. It has a nice airport that I use when I can to avoid the lines & madness at O’Hare. Plus the Harley Davidson Museum — I was surprised at how much fun that place is, even though I don’t care at all about motorcycles. My kids loved it. The art museum is beautiful, you can sail on Lake Michigan in the summer . . . lots to like about Milwaukee. Summer camp in Northern Wisconsin, an outdoor Shakespeare theater nearby (American Players Theater, Spring Green), summer programs for your kids in Madison. Yes it’s cold in the winter, but you can skate and ski and snowshoe, and make the most of your beautiful summers.

       1. The city does have a lot to offer. But a word of caution about the university system. Academics around the country are distraught and up in arms over current changes being made, which many see as dismantling a vaunted system, which was long a model for the whole country. I’d look carefully at those changes before banking in it for my children’s future.

    4. Keep in mind is that Milwaukee is about 90 minutes from Chicago. Not sure what your spouse’s job situation is but the proximity gives your SO a lot of options – many couples live in between and commute in opposite directions. I can’t give a local’s perspective but Milwaukee is one of my favorite weekend destinations. The zoo is fantastic, the Natural History Museum is *very* well curated and I’ve generally found the city to be full of wonderful surprises (there is a bar where they interview you to determine what kind of drink they’ll invent for you).

    5. I grew up in Milwaukee but have spent my adult life in the northeast for career reasons. MKE is a hidden gem and is a great city with a lot of character. Some really cool neighborhoods (ex: East Side) and your $ will go a lot further than in SoCal. Great place to raise a family – high-quality schools and child care. And yes tons of great restaurants (including good sushi and mexican BTW).

       Despite the fact that it’s a great city, if you are not used to northern climates the weather will be very tough to get used to. If you’re used to SoCal weather and the accompanying lifestyle (365-access to sunny warm-weather hiking, outdoors, etc.) I would think twice about moving anywhere in the North – East, Midwest or West – unless you are down with the weather.

    6. The snow is real. Shoveling it can be a daily thing and a real drain. If you don’t relish that idea, then figure the cost of snow removal into your monthly expenses.

       Milwaukee is one of the most segregated cities in the US. You can read about it online. This will be very different from So Cali. Think about what you want to teach your kids and how you would talk to them about race. This is as real as the snow, and also requires a plan, imho.

    7. I love Milwaukee. Grew up in the suburbs, went to college there, and now live somewhere between Milwaukee and Door County, also on Lake Michigan. Milwaukee has tons for young families to do (the Domes! great museums! really cheap professional and college sports!) and has a LCOL compared to other midwestern cities. Some of the suburbs have excellent public schools and rush hour is a freaking dream compared to Minneapolis, Chicago, or large coastal cities. I would move back in a heartbeat if my husband would, but it’s too big for him. Also, we do have good sushi, amazing steak, and really cheap beer.

    8. I currently live in the Milwaukee metro area and would not recommend. High property taxes, high crime, high gas prices. I only live in the area due to elderly family.

25. If you’re on the fence about any of the Pendleton sale items, code hbapr16 took another 20% off on top of the already deeply-discounted prices. Yay, dresses are coming my way!

26. Thinking of getting a dress from the Pendleton sale. Anyone familiar with their sizing? I’m a J Crew 2/4, Theory 6, if that helps.

    1. I find them similar to jcrew sizing.

       1. Thanks!

27. I love little boxes. Desk organizers, pill boxes; decorative boxes–I’m all about them. I’ve been looking at jewelry boxes a lot lately. I covet them, but there is one issue: how to store my jewelry in one. I keep my pearls in the case they came in. It has a satiny interior and snaps to keep them from sliding around. My opal ring is in its presentation box. Even my jewelry that doesn’t have presentation boxes is stored in the boxes it came in, with little bits of cotton or filler. What do you do with all that? Most jewelry boxes have organizers that require the jewelry to be “naked”. I’ve always thought that storing pieces in those boxes was better for it. Is there something to that, or am I just crazy?

    1. I store my regular rotation jewellery out of its presentation boxes (because it’s simply too much faff to do all that sorting every day), so a normal jewellery box like you’ve described is perfect. Anything out of regular rotation is stored in its original box as you’ve described, and put away safely.

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