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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I have mixed feelings about Peter Pan collars. That's not true — I normally hate them. Something about this silk/viscose top is making me rethink that, though — I really like the half placket, the pleating, and the drape of the sleeves (best viewed in the video). The shirt comes in six colors, priced $57.20 to $88 at Boden. Tuileries Top Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)Sales of note for 10.24.24
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- White House Black Market – Buy more, save more; buy 3+ get an extra 50% off
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Money question
TJ: how do you ladies pay for non-daily but not unexpected expenses (I’m thinking things like weddings, holidays, new glasses, etc). Do you typically keep savings accounts with money set aside for those purposes? I’ve been using the (not quite perfect) strategy of putting those types of expenses on my credit card, paying off as much as I can over the course of a few months, and then occasionally freaking out and using money from my one savings/emergency fund to pay off the balance. I have a comfortable amount in the savings fund, but I would like to not dig into it since ideally it’ll be used for emergencies and other important expenses. Should I set up a separate “fun” savings account instead and move a small amount to it every month? What works for you? Thanks in advance!
marketingchic
I have a separate “vacation fund” savings account for that purpose. Well, it’s supposed to be for vacations, but it gets raided for the types of things you mention. I have money transferred to that account each pay period.
emeralds
This is roughly what I did, back when I had a full-time job. I didn’t have a separate account, but I just knew that X% of my primary savings account was earmarked for vacations and weddings, and random crap like interview suits and glasses.
Sydney Bristow
I have a few online bank accounts set up that I move money to monthly. I put $50/month into a gift account to use for birthdays and Christmas. It builds up over the year so that by Christmas I can use that for gifts. I do the same for a vacation fund and adjust the monthly amounts depending on upcoming plans, one for medical bills and bar dues, etc. I try to estimate how much I’ll need and when I’m likely to need it then split it up into monthly transfers from checking to the account. It’s not perfect but it gets me pretty close. I paid off all my credit card debt a few years ago and refuse to carry a balance because I always get myself in trouble with that. This system has helped me avoid that.
Sydney Bristow
Oh and to get technical about it, I have each of these savings accounts set up as off-budget accounts in my You Need A Budget software and include the amount I’m planning to transfer in my budget for categories that match the account. When it comes to spending it I just transfer the money back to my checking account and assign it to the appropriate category in YNAB. I can’t recommend this software enough. It played a vital role in getting my finances under control.
L
I would second YNAB (or the concept behind it). The idea of planning as many of your expenses as possible (birthdays, car registration, etc) throughout the course of the year is amazing. I paid off about 30k in debt in a year and the principles behind budgeting really helped me do that.
Also, I use PNC which I LOVE. They have the ability to tag things in a reserve fund, so you can save for a vacation or birthdays.
Diana Barry
I pay for it with a credit card, but I also pay off the credit card every month and never carry a balance.
For big ticket items like taxes (we pay estimated), we have a capital one account into which the tax $$ goes, and that doesn’t get touched. In an emergency we can sell stocks from one of our taxable accounts and transfer the $$ over to the regular checking account.
Anon
I pay it all from my regular account. If I use my credit card, I pay it off right away. There’s no point in carrying a balance and having to pay interest if the money is available.
AIMS
This is what I do also. If I know I have substantial expenses coming up, I try to spend less in other areas but I can’t justify paying interest and carrying a balance if I have cash available.
preg anon
+1
Money question
That’s my problem – my intention is to always pay the balance right away, but I’ve been putting these big expenses on the credit card (with a low interest rate) with the intention of using my savings account for emergencies only. It’s definitely not working out perfectly because I keep finding myself with a new balance, even though I try really hard to watch my spending.
Former Partner, Now In-House
I wonder if this might help: Can you go back over your records for the past year and add up how much you spent on these types of expenses (X). Then divide X by 12 months (1/12th X). Then put aside 1/12th X into your savings account, or into a new X savings account that you open just for this purpose. When you have one of these expenses, charge it on your credit card — for the convenience, the miles, the extra insurance — and then pay for it out of the X savings account. It sounds like these are regular expenses that need to be accounted for in your monthly budget, even if they don’t come monthly.
When I was in BigLaw, I paid for these types of expenses out of my monthly paycheck/cash flow and never thought twice about it. Once I left BigLaw, I realized that that approach wouldn’t work anymore because my salary just wasn’t enough to accommodate such large amounts without planning for them. So I switched to the system above.
PS: If you have access at work to a healthcare reimbursement/flexible savings account, you can use that money for glasses, so you are paying for them with pre-tax dollars. This helps me a lot.
TO Lawyer
I think it depends on how you define “emergency” – I generally move money into 3 savings accounts – short-term, medium-term and long-term – I haven’t touched the latter 2 but I used some of my short-term savings for unexpected expenses (or expenses that aren’t normally budgeted for i.e. weddings)
Maybe you need to open another savings account that will get used for unexpected expenses?
Money question
I think that’s what I’m going to need to do. Your three-accounts plan looks like something that could work for me – I just need a place to collect some money for those predicable expenses that don’t quite deserve a place in my monthly budget. My existing account can become the long-term one and will probably still get the bulk of my direct deposit, but I think a separate one will help put my mind at ease about using savings for other expenses. Thank you!
Former Partner, Now In-House
This is exactly what I do. Three accounts:
1. Retirement (some tax-advantaged, some regular brokerage account). At Schwab. Managed by someone else. Very difficult for me to get to. Contribute every month.
2. Mid-term. For eventual new car, wedding/honeymoon, roof replacement, etc. Online savings account at HSBC. Takes 3-4 business days to get to it (I go online and have some transferred to my BofA checking account). Contribute every month. This is also my emergency fund.
3. Short-term a.k.a. slush fund. For irregular but expected expenses (vacations, glasses, small home issues like plumber visit, heavy gift months, RE taxes, tax preparer fees). Regular savings account at BofA, where my checking account also is. Very easy to get to/transfer into my BofA checking account. Contribute every month.
Anon
I keep part of my savings in my checking account as a “cushion” that varies from 2K-4K over the course of the year (lower after a vacation, after the holidays, etc.). I pay for everything on my credit card, and pay it off every month from my checking account. That way I don’t have to dip into my savings/emergency account for expenses that are not an emergency. I also just feel more comfortable having a cushion in my checking account so I never have to worry about overdrafts, etc. After a big expense, I build the cushion back up by transferring less of my income to my savings account.
CountC
This is what I do also. I get the benefits of the rewards on my credit card without paying interest and I am comfortable that my checking account can cover these things. It helps that all my accounts are with the same back so it takes me 10 seconds to move money on my phone.
Killer Kitten Heels
I have a certain amount that automatically rolls to savings each month, and I don’t touch my savings account at all (except for emergencies), but then I have an additional certain amount that I don’t “need” as part of my monthly budget (enough to cover expenses like birthday gifts, weddings, etc.) that sits in checking for the month. If I have a one-time expense, I use the the “overflow” sitting in checking. At the end of the month, whatever’s in checking that’s not earmarked for a specific expense gets moved to savings.
For larger expenses like a vacation, I will dip into savings, as long as it won’t put my savings account below a certain bare minimum amount (3 months’ living expenses). If the cost of a vacation would knock my savings below that mark, I’ll wait until I’ve saved up enough to cover my minimum plus the vacation to book/pay for the vacation.
Senior Attorney
I have separate accounts for everything. I call them “Freedom Accounts” because I first heard about the concept in a book called “Debt Proof Living” by Mary Hunt. I have kept track of every penny in and out for 13 years now, so I know what my expenses are. So I have separate online savings accounts for every category I can think of, and I have automatic transfers from checking to savings every month for the following expense categories:
Charitable donations
Vacation
Insurance
Car maintenance/repair
Medical expenses
Clothing
Computer/tech stuff
Gifts/holidays
Theatre subscriptions
Slush fund
When I had a house I also had accounts for home maintenance/repairs and property taxes.
The way it works in practice is that when I incur an expense in one of these categories, I charge it to my cash-back credit card and then transfer the money from the appropriate account to my checking account to pay the bill.
I also have an emergency fund for dire emergencies (so far I’ve only ever used it once in 15 years, to fund my separation from my husband), and a fund for expenses relating to my 27-year-old son, which I mostly don’t touch (I have the idea that at some point it will be used to help with a wedding or a house or something major like that).
This system has been the key to my whole financial management system and it’s worked fantastically well for me for years.
Lady Harriet
I use Mint for my budgeting. I put categories like travel and gifts as line items in my budget. If I don’t spend the money each month it rolls over to the next month. I have an irregular income, so I tend to keep a pretty big cushion of money in my checking account so I don’t have to take money from savings all the time.
I love this top!
I’m with Kat… I normally don’t like peter pan collars because they often skew too young or dainty but this one is just right. Love the color too!
KC
Same. I think it’s the bright color and that the top button is undone maybe?
AIMS
I think it might be the model. I love almost everything in the boden catalog when they show the models wearing it and then when I look at it in isolation or get it home, it often tends to skew either twee or frumpy. I like this top too but perhaps in theory only ….
January
+1 – I would like to live in the Boden catalog, but I find their stuff tends not to translate to my real life very well.
Kanye East
Their stuff tends not to translate to my body very well.
CapHillAnon
Lovely shirt!
Looking for recommendations/ good or bad anecdotes: Has anyone (esp in or around DC) had lasik with astigmatism? Where? I know that lasik wasn’t recommended for astigmatism for a long time, but I understand that the technology has changed and it is possible now. I am really, really tired of spending so much on glasses and contacts.
Divaliscious11
I did and its been life changing. But I had it at Wilmer Institute at Johns Hopkins. I had mine in ’07
CapHillAnon
Any problems since then? Did you have astigmatism? Is there any particular dr there you’d recommend?
Divaliscious11
No problems. Yes, I had an astigmatism. I’d gone in 2 years prior and was told not available, but a new procedure had just been approved and to come back in 18 months.
Can’t remember my surgeons name – its been a while… Asian woman – which I understand is less than helpful.
I will tell you I picked up my first pair of readers this year. But they told me I would likely need them as lasik and other similar surgeries etc.. don’t prevent aging. But I happily grab my $14.99 readers and not my $499 eyeglasses….
Divaliscious11
Not “an astigmatism” – just astigmatism…
MJ
You can do custom LASIK for astigmatism nowadays, and if you’re not a good candidate for LASIK, you can do PRK (noting that PRK has some potential healing downtime, but results that are actually as good or better than LASIK). I did PRK earlier this year, and while the healing is rough, I feel like it was money that was really well spent. I used HSA money that was banked and paid some out of pocket–insurance will not cover this. And since I was spending a few hundred dollars per year on glasses and contacts (with VSP insurance), this actually was a sound investment.
This is _THE GUY_ that everyone in the Bay Area goes to and his website is helpful. I’m not saying you need to come to CA–just do research here.
http://eyelaser.stanford.edu/procedures/wavefront-2.html
Good luck–highly recommend getting eye surgery though. I didn’t think my contacts bothered me that much, but now that I don’ t have them, I realize how freeing it is not to worry about dry eyes, swimming, pollen…the list goes on. So glad I did this.
Anon
My DH had a slight astigmatism in one eye and the eye surgeon recommended PRK rather than LASIK for him. He did PRK a few years ago and is thrilled with the results. Healing time was longer than LASIK and it took a while for his vision to stabilize (we were worried for a while that he might not have had the best results), but now his vision is perfect and he has no issues. He’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Cynthia
I got Wavefront LASIK over a month ago, and had pretty bad astigmatism/near-sightedness. I went to Dr. Manche at Stanford since there was a study for astigmatic and near-sighted folks.
The only thing is that if the doc tells you you can work the next day, don’t trust it. Take a day off after your procedure, preferrably Friday so you have the weekend to recover. My night driving was non-existant at first but is coming back. It took around a week to be able to comfortably drive at night.
I’m still suffering from dry eyes, but that’s about it.
WestCoast Lawyer
Thanks for the link, but I couldn’t tell what doctor you are talking about (the page just goes to the Stanford Wavefront LASIK page). Can you post his name?
Cynthia
Dr. Edward Manche.
anon
I had it in maybe 2000, but my astigmatism was not too severe. I only did it because I became allergic to the protein that forms on contacts, so it was super itchy to wear them. I had great results, no problems.
a.k.
I haven’t done it (can’t seem to find the nerve to just do it), but my eye doctor is Samuel Stopak in the West End (by the Trader Joe’s), and he is terrific. He does Lasik with astigmatism and has done thousands of Lasik procedures.
wildkitten
+ 1
CapHillAnon
So helpful, everyone, thanks!
Anonymous
One more recommendation — Dr. Kang at Eye Doctors of Washington (I went to the Friendship Heights/Chevy Chase location, literally above the metro station). I very highly recommend him. I had PRK almost 5 years ago and it changed my life. Honestly. The recovery wasn’t the easiest — I was super light sensitive at first, then had some blurriness/double vision for up to 6 weeks later that gradually improved over that time period. But I have 20/15 vision now.
KCMDC
I have astigmatism and was also allergic to the contacts to correct it. Went to Dr. Thomas Clinch at Eye Doctors of Washington three years ago and had amazing results. Really, it’s life changing. My husband is super risk averse and basically asked every single question possible and Dr. Clinch answered each and every one. I highly recommend him.
Chi too?
To piggyback – any recs for the same procedure in Chicago?
anonlaw
Dr. Kraff comes highly recommended by most. I went to him fairly recently with very high hopes but came out with my (somewhat expected) diagnosis of mild keratoconus and “no laser surgery on your eyeballs. ever.” To be honest I was really reassured by him telling me to not ever let someone convince me to get laser surgery on my eyes. Disappointing in the end, but for the best.
ANP
+1 for Manus Kraff. He’s excellent and well-respected by his peers (I know this because I used to work in a related field).
Mpls
I had astigmatism (and near sightedness) as issues when I had my LASIK in 2003. It was enough of an issue that when I tried contacts, the doctor had me do hard contacts (which were an epic failure and lasted no more than a week). Maybe it was the fact that I was way more near sighted that I was astigmatism-ed that I don’t recall it ever even being a factor when I had it done 10 years ago. Maybe its more of an issue if that’s the only thing you are correcting for?
I’m not in the DC area, so no recommendations, but I do recommend going to 3 or 4 places for a consultation – which should include a dilation of the eyes to check pupil size.
CapHillAnon
This is all so helpful–much appreciated!
Godzilla
A) That is a beautiful blouse.
B) I know people recommended a gazillion different types of traveling coffee mugs/thermoses and I can’t find a single thread. Any recs? Ideally for something that I can throw into my purse and keep the hot coffee hot inside the thermos.
Lady Tetra
Contigo is the one I use, and it’s great. I think it’s the AUTOSEAL. It is a little difficult to clean the top part, but it has never ever spilled.
preg anon
I bought Contigos based on the recs here and didn’t like them. I’m not sure if I bought the right kind, but a little bit of coffee was always in the lid, so the first bit you got with each drink was cold. Gross. And I never felt like they got all that clean. But like I said, maybe I ordered the wrong kind.
My husband bought me a Zojirushi one for Christmas last year that was more than I would ever spend on a coffee mug, but now I’m so glad I have it. The lid doesn’t have a lot of parts, so it is really easy to get clean, and it keeps your coffee hot forever. And it doesn’t leak.
Baconpancakes
I love my Nissan thermos for that reason. The entire lid comes apart, with all the seals as separate pieces, so you can wash them all. Very necessary, since I take milk in my tea and cream in my coffee.
What Zojirushi one did you get?
preg anon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VSX00A/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Flying Squirrel
Seconded. I had a Contigo for a while, but the coffee always got cold sooner than I wanted. And I once accidentally got the button depressed in my bag, which was a complete mess. Nissan thermos is great (and cheap)!
mascot
I went looking for these threads a few weeks ago and I think a recommended thermos was the Nissan. Perhaps try that search term
Baconpancakes
Yes, mine is by Nissan as well.
Miz Swizz
I love my Nissan thermos! I got the 34 ounce one that looks like a bullet. It’s great because I can bring it to work half-full for me or my husband and I will fill the whole thing up for roadtrips and have hot coffee. I don’t like drinking out of the lid so I have a ceramic mug at work that I can pour into and we’ll bring a mug that fits in the cup holder for trips.
MJ
I have a Thermos Nissan Backpack Thermos Mug. It has a physical clip which goes over the lid, so it absolutely cannot spill if you throw it in a bag. It is very easy to clean. I prefer it to my contigos…they still smell like coffee no matter how much I soak or scrub them, so it’s in there somewhere. No similar issues with Backpack Thermos.
CH
Agreed – I have the Nissan Thermos Backpack Bottle (with clip over the lid) and love it. I have two — one is circa 2008, the other 2009 — and both have held up great. One is in silver, the other is brown, and the enamel (or whatever) on the outside of the brown one has peeled. So I’d recommend the straight metal ones. But otherwise I highly recommend it.
Baconpancakes
Thermos 16-Ounce Stainless Steel Travel Tumbler. Got mine on Amazon, but also I’ve seen it at Target. The mechanism was a little sticky at first, but once it was washed a few times, it loosened up. And it keeps coffee absurdly hot for two hours, and keeps it drinkably warm for most of the rest of the day. The only difficulty is remembering not to fill it past the line inside, or the coffee will get into the lid and leak. Otherwise, not a drop.
Anon
I have this one also.
CapHillAnon
I’ve got both a Contigo and a Nissan thermos, and they are fantastic. They are in constant use, don’t leak, and hold their temperatures. I’ve had the Nissan thermos for years, and it has endured a ton of abuse and still looks and works great.
Cb
I use the Thermocafe one which I like but in the past, I had a time machine flask? Or something like this. I stupidly left it on the airplane and wish I could remember what it was called as it kept water hot for ages.
Baconpancakes
Your time machine flask, was it bigger on the inside?
Cb
Heehee! Especially well done.
Sincerely, the girl who snagged tickets to the Doctor Who 50th anniversary special in 3D next weekend!
goirishkj
SO INCREDIBLY JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Purse survey?
I’m going Monday night to see it in 3D. Hoping I can avoid spoilers. Saw The Night of the Doctor mini-webisode this morning. So excited!
Gail the Goldfish
me too! Also, all my nerd friends have moved out of NYC which means I’m going alone, so if anyone who is going happens to be in NYC and is going to the 3D one at Union Square and wants a seat buddy, let me know.
New Girl
I love my Aladdin commuter mug – 16oz, dishwasher safe, and doesn’t leak. Best $13 I spent at Target.
Anon in NYC
OXO LiquiSeal travel mug. The mug has suffered a lot of abuse and doesn’t leak.
In Rem
I have this one because it works with the cup holder on my bicycle. Yes, my pink cruiser bicycle with basket and coffee cup holder. The cup seals so tight it doesn’t leak even over bumps.
Houston Attny
:)
The other day, I searched this site for ‘fitbit’ because I knew several of the ladies had posted their experiences and thoughts. It seemed that the first 10+ links were to posts by ELLEN. I gave up.
NYC
Hahahaha.
Godzilla
HA. All of the threads I found were about coffee being spilled on blouses or whatever.
Miss Behaved
I have this timolino mug in almost every color:
http://www.amazon.com/Timolino-PAB-04KGPW-12-Ounce-Vacuum-iTumbler/dp/B000153DLW/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1384452610&sr=8-10&keywords=timolino
Most Anonymous
Threadjack: I’m a long time lurker/occasional poster and a midlevel litigation associate in biglaw (who is desperately trying to avoid outing herself). I know there have been some posts on related topics in the past few days (and the advice has been really helpful) so I figured I’d ask for your advice on my situation specifically. (And if there’s a posting on this topic that I’ve missed, a link would be really helpful.) So here goes:
I am becoming increasingly desperate to leave my job, where I’ve been employed since graduation from law school. I have no desire to make partner. Morale at my firm generally (and my practice group in particular) is very low for several reasons, one of which is that I work on a relatively small team headed by an extremely difficult manager. I have no real way of switching teams or to a different practice group within my firm without incurring the wrath of this person in such a way that my job will be in serious jeopardy. I realize how crazy this must sound, but this manager has a habit of turning on team members for essentially no reason with relentless personal attacks and a demeanor that makes you feel completely worthless and ashamed as an employee and as a person. This manager will essentially torture the employee for a period of weeks or months (extreme micro-managing, constant criticism, etc.) and then, when the employee is eventually released from the team, the manager will start badmouthing him/her to others in an attempt to get the employee fired. (I truly wish I was exaggerating.) The anxiety that this has caused is starting to take a serious toll on both my mental and physical health.
My problem is: I don’t know how to even start to leave. I have no idea how to use a headhunter. (A few have reached out to me unsolicited over the past few years, but I don’t even know how to vet whether they were legitimate or scams.) I’ve been applying for in-house positions (and, to a lesser extent, midlaw-type jobs) appearing on internet message boards and whatnot for the past few months, with no luck. (My understanding is that this is generally a waste of time and that you need to know someone to even get an interview.) I work in a relatively small, insular legal market where everyone seems to know each other except me. I have no network to speak of – I’ve completely lost touch with nearly everyone I knew at the firm who has left in the past few years, and I’ve been too busy billing to even make any friends. I didn’t go to law school in the city I live in, and my law school alma mater has no alumni presence whatsoever in my city. And I’m scared to let anyone currently at the firm know that I’m seeking to leave for fear of the repercussions. And honestly, the way that my manager has treated me and my team has made me so stressed out and neurotic and anxious that I cannot even imagine carrying on a normal conversation for more than five minutes with anyone at this point, let alone get through a whole job interview without totally losing it.
There are also logistical barriers to getting a new job: I need to stay in my current city for family reasons. And for financial reasons (loans + poor financial decisions in early adulthood), I can’t just quit with nothing lined up, and as much as I’d love to work in a nonprofit setting or something like that, I don’t see that as feasible financially. Finally, I don’t really see myself as that attractive of a job prospect. I got average (but not great) grades from a decent (but not outstanding) law school, and while I’ve done good work here (and worked my tail off), it doesn’t necessarily sound all that impressive on a resume. I had thought that several years at a firm with significant name recognition in my city would mitigate the grades issue, but I’m increasingly suspicious that I’m wrong.
I realize that I’m (a) being incredibly negative and (b) portraying my work environment as similar to either an abusive relationship or the mob, but really, it’s starting to feel that way (on both accounts). Does anyone have any advice as to first steps I can take to get out of here? The combination of situational factors and completely shattered self-esteem has made me feel totally helpless and overwhelmed. Thanks in advance.
Most Anonymous
And wow – that was way, way longer than I thought it would be. Many thanks to anyone who actually got through it. Yikes.
V
Don’t give up! In law firms, the larger they are, the more everyone assumes you are miserable and want to leave (even if you are not that miserable, we just assume it). Doubly so if you are known to work for the Local Crazy. The longer you are out of school, the less your grades matter.
I don’t know your firm and city, but what I do know is this: you need to get out and have lunch or coffee with every friendly and possibly helpful person that you know. Depending on how friendly you are with people (and not on an informational interview, which you should be having also), YES you are miserable and YES you are looking. Go to any local CLEs with a local presenter because those are your likely future bosses — talk up the ones who seem nice and see if there is a future conversation you can have (poaching a ready-to-go local person is a way better way for them to hire than blindly). But TALK TALK TALK — it really is who you know and who they know, especially if people know you’re looking. Apply to stuff, too, but you can’t beat human contact and having a person put a good word in for you.
Good luck!
Houston Attny
+1 to advice to talk talk talk. I know it is difficult to do, and as you say, you’re demoralized and beat at this point.
So this weekend, go get a massage to push away some of the stress so that your head is a little clearer. Find a way to dig deep to your core and imagine that your time there is very limited. You are you, the fabulous Most Anonymous, first and attorney for crazypants second. It’s hard to do, and I’m not suggesting you stop caring about your job but just that you care about yourself and mental health a little more.
And on the job search, every single day, you must do something – an e-mail/ telephone call/coffee/LinkedIn with a law school friend/an attorney you know/a person you know who works for a company that has attorneys and let them know you are definitely looking for a new job. And ask attorneys you know if they would recommend a headhunter. Or call your local bar association or ask at a local CLE. These are all things you can do.
I wish you the best of luck.
preg 3L
I think you should start by finding a therapist you can “meet” with via Skype. That way, you can get some confidence and self-esteem back so that you can be a competitive job applicant. Meeting via Skype would allow you to be in the privacy of your own home, during whatever hours are convenient for you, and since it sounds like you’re in a small (ish) town, you won’t risk having anyone find out. Big hugs though — you sound like you’d be a great job applicant!
MJ
I suggest Breakthrough for this–my college classmate is the founder, and it is a totally legit remote therapy website. they even take insurance–check to see. You may also want to seek out an EAP too.
Also, if this person is as awful as you say, I guarantee that he or she has a reputation and no one in your town will bat an eyelash as to why you are looking.
Get your application materials in order (have a friend from law school look them over).
Just because you’ve lost touch with people does not mean that you cannot reconnect. Networking takes getting out there…and you’re going to have to find the motivation and take the time to do this, to make your situation improve.
Don’t sell yourself short based on your school credentials–you have a lot of real-world experience. If you do work at a bigger firm, find out if they have an alumni directory. If not, get on LinkedIn asap and start searching for alumni from your school. Just because they don’t live in your town doesn’t mean that they don’t have clients or connections in your town.
Remember, YOU control your destiny, but you have to take positive steps to get out. This will take energy. You can do it! Go girl!
mascot
While they were at the firm, were you friendly with any of the folks that have since left? Chances are they left for reasons similar to your own. I think is it fine to look them up and give them a call. Ask if they will talk to you about how they made the transition and if they know of anything. Chance are that you will get a sympathetic ear because they know where you are coming from. I’ve been on both sides of these calls and they were much less awkward than you might think.
Diana Barry
+1. I reached out to a bunch of former people from my big firm before I left and they were, to a person, happy to hear from me and commiserate, and help me find a new job.
TBK
I’m sorry. This sounds miserable. A few suggestions:
You say your law school has no alumni presence in your city, but have you tried looking at your school’s alumni database to see if anyone at all is listed there? If there are only one or two alumni in your area, they’ll probably be even more willing to talk/meet with you than if there were hundreds of alumni there.
Have you tried your undergrad alumni network?
Are you active in your local bar? This would be a great way to meet lawyers outside your firm without raising any red flags with your current employer. Consider joining the women’s bar, too, and the young attorneys’ bar plus any others you might be eligible for (e.g., if you’re a person of color).
By all means next time a recruiter calls, meet him/her for coffee! You don’t have to sign up with them right away. Find out what they think of your resume. You might be pleasantly surprised. Ask what opportunities they have in mind for you. Find out where they’ve recently placed people. Learn about their backgrounds — were they practicing lawyers in good firms before they left to become recruiters?
If you really can’t get through a five minute conversation with someone because of your stress levels, you might want to consider talking with a therapist. Many, many burnt out lawyers see therapists just to get a grip and get some focus. (I forget his name, but if you’re skeptical, check out the therapist who writes columns for Above the Law. It seems like he’s made a whole practice out of lawyers just like you.) You won’t make a good impression on new employers if you’re truly burnt out and frazzled.
Use LinkedIn to see if you actually do know someone – anyone – at the companies where there might be in-house jobs. If so, reach out and say you’re interested in their company and could you have a few minutes just to hear about what it’s like to work there. If you do talk with someone, ask at the end of the conversation if they’d be willing to pass along your resume (if there’s an opening) or to keep you posted if something opens up (and if you see a listing later at their company, reach back out to them and say “hey, I saw this listing — do you have any insight?”).
JJ
Agree with all of TBK’s advice (as usual) and also wanted to tell you that the situation at your current employer is not all that rare. I actually chuckled to myself because there was no way you could out yourself so far…that describes more associates and micro-managing partners than I care to admit. If you’re in Texas, you could be describing my previous employer (and if you are, I’d be happy to chat).
Contact anyone that you even had a casual acquaintance who has left your firm. Invite them for coffee or even a phone call. If they’re anything like the people who left my old firm (myself included), we’d be happy to talk to you about strategies to leave. And if you really have been doing a good job, they can potentially pass along your resume.
And do accept calls from recruiters! Meet them for lunch or coffee. They may have placed friends of yours and you never knew it. Just make sure that they will never pass your resume along to a firm without your permission.
Trust me, it feels like you’re totally stuck now. And that’s very isolating. I’ve been there. But once you start taking concrete steps to leave, things start to feel better. You will find a new job and you will be happier!
LizNYC
OP, you could also be talking about my friend who used to practice in Wisconsin! She was totally miserable for three years before moving on. And when she went on interviews locally, EVERYONE knew why she was interviewing — literally, everyone. That’s how much of a reputation her *stellar* bosses had.
I’m NAL, but I wish you luck! And Internet hugs.
Anon
I totally understand that situation – I’ve been there and got out. I needed a therapist to really help me get over the emotional issues. One thing you also need to do is figure out your “story.” New jobs don’t want you running away from an old job; they want you running to the new job. So figure out what excites you about the new job, and make sure you can talk about that.
And I second V’s advice; talk to everyone you can about the what you’re trying to do (with a positive spin, of course). Take headhunters out to coffee. Set up informational interviews. Reconnect with everyone you used to know – try to set up at least 2 meetings a week (or some other number). *hugs* It can get better, but it’s going to take a lot of work.
CapHillAnon
Second the advice to set up coffee and lunches, and figure out a way to look forward without sounding like you’re fleeing. You can do it. The book “The Great Firm Escape” was a big help to me when I was initially overwhelmed about how to get out of biglaw. (I got it through the ABA, if I remember correctly.)
Silvercurls
Hugs and moral support. NO expertise in BigLaw but some experience in surviving relentless stress. Take as much care of yourself as you can during this time especially re sleep and nutrition. (Do what you can and don’t berate yourself for being imperfect! From reading this blog I know self-care is challenging for BigLaw employees.) Skype therapy sounds good; ditto telephone therapy if you happen to know a provider from a previous city who is willing to meet with you via voice-only. There was a past commenter here,who posted under K in Transition or K…in Transition, who provided counseling long-distance and posted a real email account several times. I’d search this site’s archives for 2012–other readers please chime in if you have more specific info!
Are there any kindred souls at work– peers or support staff with whom you can exchange the occasional supportive comment or facial expression? (If this partner is this difficult, he/she probably doesn’t distinguish between lawyers and others when blasting the negativity.) Celebrate every positive thing that happens to you in this difficult time, even if it’s just telling yourself that someone listened sympathetically or quietly told you “hang in there.”
Lastly, I’ve seen many other members of this community ask for help, receive it, and express appreciation. This might be surprising to find in a fully voluntary and mostly anonymous community. Yet, despite these two attributes (which might seem incompatible with providing support)and the occasional snarky comment or grouchy comeback, there’s a good vibe here. My inner amateur sociologist says it’s because most people who come here are basically self-directed and inclined to strive for positive achievements rather than remaining stuck in unhappy circumstances. Some of us may get attached to less-than-ideal spouses or significant others for varying amounts of time, but once we identify the problem we tend to do something to improve the situation, even if it’s just learning how best to move on when the so-called DH announces he’s leaving the spouse, the marriage, and the (perhaps-not-yet-even-born) baby. (Yes, this situation came up in the last 3 months.)
Sorry to be so long-winded. Take care of yourself. I hope you soon start to see light at the end of the tunnel.
Anon
I know the conventional wisdom is network, network, network, but I got out of Biglaw and into a small boutique firm that I love by just responding to a job posting in the state bar association publication. It took six months or so, and I applied for every job I could find that sounded interesting (look on Monster, Indeed, Linked In, your law school’s job board, bar association job postings, anything else you can think of). Fire off resumes and cover letters, and eventually you will find something that clicks. And you will feel so, so much better once you leave that toxic work environment.
saltylady
Same here– I responded to a headhunter call after nearly 10 years at Biglaw. I had two kids under age 2 at home, and was getting pressure to go back to full time (and start traveling, etc). I was honestly ready to quit completely. I ended up at a boutique firm that was not perfect by any means (many psychos want to own their own firm, as it turns out), but they let me work three days a week when my kids were tiny. Then, magically about four years later, an in house job fell out of the sky– someone in my practice area left the company where a friend from BigLaw worked. I never would have thought in a million years that I would get the dream in house job I wanted.
I would definitely recommend calling up some of those BigLaw friends who have left to have drinks, if you were at all friendly. And talk to those headhunters– nothing to lose.
KLG
This. I got my current job from the job posting board at my law school (alumni have access to it) and I got a number of interviews at other places from cold applications as well. I am sure it helps to have someone pushing your application but it doesn’t hurt to just go ahead and apply.
I did learn however that many bigger companies use resume scan software and that it helps to regurgitate a lot of words from the job posting into your cover letter/resume.
anon for this
I also got my current job through a posting on the bar association website, although I came from small law and not biglaw. My former boss knew a lot of the same professional contacts I knew, so I had to be VERY careful with networking. As the breadwinner for my family, I couldn’t quit without a job lined up either. It took 7 months which seemed like an eternity at the time, but I’m happy now. It can be done. Please take care of yourself though–my physical and emotional health deteriorated at my old job since my boss sounds a lot like your boss. Hang in there.
anon for this
Edited to include that I had to be careful because if my old boss knew I was looking, I feared I would be gone that day. I couldn’t take the risk that someone would slip or even hint that I was putting out feelers for a new job.
WSB
I also got my current in-house job by responding to an on-line job posting (found on Indeed). It’s so easy these days to advertise a job online and reach a huge audience, so I feel like more and more firms and companies are doing that. Networking is fine, but I’m not much of a networker, so I lurked the interwebs and that worked for me.
Good luck :)
Ellen
Yay! I am back ONLINE again. Our whole server was out yesterday. The teck guy came by to try and figure OUT what was going on, and he spent alot of time under my desk and under Frank’s desk. I did NOT want to sit there while he was checkeing the wire’s out and lookeing up my skirt, so I went to the NY Public library b/c our conference room was busy. FOOEY! There are alot of strange peeople in the library also.
As for this OP, doubel hug’s to you. Workeing can be very stressful, especialy if you are workeing with jerk’s. But hang in there b/c it sound’s like it can ONLEY get better. Just do NOT give up and let these looser’s get to you. That is how I perservered and became a sucess in the legal field. I can ONLEY hope my personal life get’s as good.
The manageing partner told me I have to go with him to the Judge’s home for a private party
next week. I think Micheal will be there, but am concerned that b/c we have case’s pending before the judge that it could be an ETHICS issue if we go to a party “EX PARTE”? What does the HIVE THINK ABOUT THIS? We were invited, but do we have to tell anyone like the ETHICS BOARD? I do NOT want to jepardise my law license by goieng to a party with the judge b/c the manageing partner want’s me to meet Micheal again. Micheal is catereing it from his deli so it won’t be that FANCY SCHMANCEY. The party is in the judge’s brownstone home so I do not even know if that is better or worse for us. Mabye no one will even know–that is what the manageing partner says, but I am not that crazy about Micheal. He seems nice enough, but he smell’s like GARLIC. FOOEY! I could NOT sleep all night with a guy who was burpeing up garlic, and I do NOT think I am unreasnoble about that.
Anyway, it’s great to be back and I want to catch up later on a great articel which prove’s what I have been saying about men. They just burp and roll over rather than being a partner. FOOEY on men like this!
THE HIVE SHOULD Read this articel from the NY Times that I read yesterday in the library. It is titled, “IN HOOKUP’s, Inequality Still Reigns” FOOEY on MEN like this. FOOEY!
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/women-find-orgasms-elusive-in-hookups/?_r=0
Lyssa
Oh, honey. You’ve gotten some good advice already, but I’d like to echo that you definitely need to build your network. I’d recommend that you pick at least two things to get involved with that will allow you to meet more lawyers – the first should involve your bar (I don’t know about your city, but our young lawyers bar is extremely active and friendly, so that might be a good place to start). For the second, look for some sort of charitable-type organization – maybe a legal aid type, or maybe a club sort, like Rotary or similar, or your local political groups, if you’re into that sort of thing, or church. There are a lot out there, but they tend to fly under the radar.
Either way, though, you do have to really get involved – attend all (or almost all) meetings; introduce yourself to everyone (just force yourself to walk up and extend your hand – 99% of people will be grateful that you made the first move); ask questions. As you start getting involved, make sure that you are volunteering to help with projects and even take an officer position. Yes, it can be a pain, but it really helps you meet people who might have connections for you. Good luck!
AnonA
Post on this afternoon’s thread under a different handle and ask for recs for a headhunter near you, or just call Lateral Link or Major Lindsey and Africa. They both have nationwide practices and if they don’t work in your city may have affiliations. Then call them today. You’re a biglaw midlevel. You are a valuable asset to a recruiter. They will want to help.
Killer Kitten Heels
Post on this afternoon’s thread under a different handle and ask for recs for a headhunter near you, or just call Lateral Link or Major Lindsey and Africa. They both have nationwide practices and if they don’t work in your city may have affiliations. Then call them today. You’re a biglaw midlevel. You are a valuable asset to a recruiter. They will want to help.
WestCoast Lawyer
I second the recommendation for ML&A. If you are in California Solutus (I think I spelled it right also has a good reputation). Many recruiters will want you to put together a deal sheet (if you are transactional, I imagine there is something similar for litigation). Basically a 1-page listing of the types of deals you’ve worked on over your career. For a transactional attorney, it might be broken down by type (i.e. M&A, financings, IPOs, etc.). I wouldn’t name the clients if the deal (and your firm’s involvement) wasn’t public, but something like “represented high-tech issuer in $25 million Series X financing” is sufficient. I bet once you take the time to list everything out (if it’s more than one page I would drop out some of the smaller/older deals) you’ll feel better about the amount of experience you have.
Blair Waldorf
All good advice. I’m only going to add that maybe you should try to work with a recruiter and see if that helps. I don’t know your market but this may be an option that you can use in addition to your own networking.
L
Lots of good advice, but if I can add some semi-unsolicited to the list. Start looking now at what you can cut from your budget/expenses. Go bare bones (no cable/use hulu), cut back on eating out, etc. Yes, it may slightly compound your stress at first, but having f*ck you money in the bank will bolster your confidence by a ton. There is nothing worse then knowing you’re in crazytown and fearing for your sanity and your livelihood. Don’t. You’re awesome and if your boss is this unhinged, he will have a reputation for it and people will be impressed you lasted that long.
Securitization
Hello! I have read the threads on totes, but I may have the motherlode of stuff to lug around: a lightweight laptop and pro supps (so no more than two reams of paper but usually more like one ream) and a clutch purse. I am thinking of the large LL Bean messenger bag in black (link to follow) so that the strap is sturdy enough and so that the weight of all of this is somewhat tolerable to me. I’d love to just use a backpack, but probably can’t get away with that. I was really wanting a cute tote bag, but that will probably have to be for weekends.
Securitization
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/75419?feat=845-GN1&page=bean-s-messenger-bag
Killer Kitten Heels
LLBean bags never die, so from a quality perspective, it’s a good choice, but there ARE other options if you are considering still trying to find something a little more professional looking. MZWallace (I know, I know, I plug these too much, but I love mine) makes a large tote bag (it’s called the Kate) that’s super-sturdy, comes with a shoulder strap (so you can wear it as a crossbody, like a messenger bag) and wouldn’t look out of place in a boardroom or a courtroom. (MZWallace also makes a fairly classy looking backpack.) The Lo&Sons OG should be big enough to carry all what you’re describing as well.
Also, in general, have you looked at diaper bags? Lots of designers make ones in plain, neutral colors that don’t even look like diaper bags at all (I know Coach and Kate Spade usually have them because those are brands I stalk, but I’m sure plenty of others make them too), and again, I think they’d fit the bill for you.
Bonnie
If you are carrying that much weight, I’d get a simple backpack or a wheeled bag. Carrying a heavy tote or a messenger bag will cause back and shoulder pain.
preg 3L
What baby gift do you get the couple that already has *everything*? I was thinking food of some kind but I’m really lost on what they would like. The mother had a c-section 6 days ago and called last night to chat, and she’s already ready for visitors! Thanks ladies.
V
A case of size 2 diapers? Everyone stocks up on the NBs and the 1s, but all of a sudden they can be caught flat-footed. If they have everything, they should have some closet space for this. OR you can go over and offer to run any errands, bring her some takeout, etc. She may not be moving around much and may just want you to unload the dishwasher for her.
preg 3L
Thanks! Those are great ideas. Their baby was 9 lbs so they are probably going to be ready for larger diapers very soon!
anon-oh-no
These are great suggestions. Similarly, if they dont already have a baby of the same s3x (such that there are hand me downs) season appropriate clothes for 6 mo, 9 mo, or 1 year.
Food delivery services are also nice — most cities have some version of this these days, where the food is basically already cooked and you just pop it into the oven or something. Cooking dinner, even with my 2nd baby who was really, really easy (not so much with the first) was always the hardest thing becuase that time of day is just bad — there is a reason they call it the “witching” hour. But if she can just turn the oven on and pop something in that is better than your traditional frozen dinner, that is great.
rosie
Any recs for this kind of food delivery service in Boston? TIA!
anon-oh-no
I dont know any in Boston. I’ve used two in Chicago and am currently obsessed with Madison & Rayne. We have used Dinner by Design in the past, which was OK, but it basically involved making frozen dinners (you could either go to the kitchen each weekend and do it yourself, or they could do it for you and deliever it to work or daycare or something), which you then had to put in the oven for an hour or so. This didnt work well with our schedule after work.
Madison & Rayne, however, delievers to your house fresh, delish ingrediants each week for as many meals as you choose. Everything is premeasured and it comes with easy, step by step instructions. most meals take about 20 minutes to prepare. This is more expensive, but totally worth it. the food is so good and it gets us eating things we never would do on our own. our kids like most meals (some are too adventurous for them, but we just eat the leftovers).
For those of you in Chicago, this place is awesome. For Boston, I’d try googling to find something similar and then check reviews.
Anonymous
Board books for the baby.
lia
+1
CKB
Yup. I like to give board books that have flaps & textures because those are the ones that seem to get destroyed the fastest from earlier children. And you can never have too many books!
Lady Harriet
Pat the Bunny! This is a classic in my extended family. When I was born we got a copy from my cousin. It was her favorite book as a baby, and my brother and I loved it so much that we got a second copy. The different textures are a lot of fun for little kids.
Diana Barry
Diapers are good, or a 6-12 month sleep sack (baby should be fitting into it soon!). I like the Halo brand and also Hanna Andersson has super nice ones.
preg anon
I like Halo too, the ones with the velcro swaddle that can be used as either a wearable blanket without swaddle or as a swaddle. However, did she have a shower? I had so many people say, “You HAVE to have one of these!” that I got ten Wubbanubs, Sophie le Giraffe, swaddles, etc., even though I had already registered for those things. I would suggest clothes for when the kid gets older or diapers.
Diana Barry
I just recommend those because NO ONE got me any and I had to buy multiples since we had a spitty baby. Even now we have more than 1 because laundry and blowouts. :)
preg anon
Speaking of spitty babies, MY BABY SPITS UP SOOO MUCH!!! I tell people that and they act like they get it, and then they see how much he actually spits up, and they are still shocked. Everybody says they’ve never seen a baby spit up that much. It kind of freaks me out (for one thing, they say b* fed babies don’t spit up that much), but he’s gaining weight, so I guess that’s that. BUT I AM SO READY FOR THAT TO END!!!
Anonymous
Wait till he’s 14 and rolling his eyes at you. You’ll think fondly of all the spit up then!
Also, people should mind their own business – if you and your baby’s doctor are happy with how he’s doing then hurray for you and seriously someone should put the smackdown on these people. Honestly.
Anon
I had a very spitty bfeed baby, too (like once a week would vomit an entire feeding up, yuck city, plus spitting after all feedings). I never got around to doing this but definitely mention the mega-spitting to the pediatrician next time you’re in. While I don’t think my kid had this, I’ve known others whose extra-spitty kids actually had acid reflux (and this was BFing). Usually I’m reluctant to head right to something being medically wrong, rather than a more extreme version of normal, but it’s worth crossing off the list.
JJ
I’ve had one happy spitter that spit up literally after every meal (as a b-fed baby). He didn’t have reflux, he just spit up a lot for no apparent reason. That went away when he was 8 months or so.
My current baby is a nightmare reflux baby that spits up everything and prior to being on his prescription, would scream all day in pain. Thank God for Prevacid – it doesn’t get rid of the spit up (nothing can…lucky us!) but it does get rid of the screaming and give me a happy baby back. Reflux is no joke.
Jo March
Here’s a useful post!
http://alphamom.com/parenting/baby/babywearing-babies-who-spit-up/
mascot
Companionship and errands for mom. And snacks. My adrenaline was pretty high for weeks 1-2, but by 3 weeks, we were getting in the weeds thanks to sleep deprivation, increasingly wakeful (read: fussy) baby and growth spurts. So she may appreciate your help more in the coming weeks.
NOLA
Take them dinner! Or bring food portioned that they can heat up – either that you make or something you can buy.
marketingchic
If they celebrate Christmas, you could get a “baby’s first” ornament, bib, etc.
Anon
Food, food, and food. Anything homemade tastes so good when you’re taking care of a newborn. It can be really easy and simple — pasta, meatloaf, enchiladas, plus a salad and some fresh bread — and it’ll be very welcomed. Also cupcakes, banana nut muffins, oatmeal cookies or anything else you can eat with one hand.
anne-on
Yes, food! Being able to eat somersetting quick/healthy while still holding the baby was awesome.
Other than that, burp cloths, and board books are the things we never get tired of. Anything but blankets really, we have about a dozen plus baby blankets, its a little ridiculous.
preg 3L
Awesome suggestions! Thank you so much ladies.
Since you asked… They didn’t have a baby shower (and this is their first baby) but they received a TON of gifts (one of their guest rooms is filled with baby clothes, toys, and diapers etc.) from family. They have a live-in baby nurse so I am inclined to think that sleep deprivation and cooking shouldn’t be too much of an issue (except for the new mom’s c-section recovery). Hopefully they won’t mind whatever we bring them!
NYC
Chocolate sourdough bread from Zingerman’s.
Parfait
This is never the wrong answer.
CH
That’s the right answer to almost every question.
Miz Swizz
My husband started his first business casual job this fall and has recently mentioned wanting to build out his work wardrobe. He currently has 6 button-down shirts and 3 pairs of khakis. His shirts are mostly patterned and in the blue/green family. He’s said he wants to branch out a little but my suggestions seem to be a little out-there for him. How do I help him expand his wardrobe without shoving him from his comfort zone?
Trunk Club
So my husband also works in a business casual environment and felt like he was dressing like he was still in college. He doesn’t like to shop and doesn’t like when I treat him like he’s my ken doll that I can dress up, so he found this thing online called “trunk club.” I think you basically give them your sizes, what stuff you like, etc and they send you a trunk of clothes they think you’d like from a personal stylist. The stuff isn’t cheap but he really loved a lot of the stuff he got. You just pick what you want and send the rest back. You’re under no obligation to buy any of it, ever, if you don’t want to. And there is no requirements as to how often you have to order a trunk. You can just do it once if you want. Check that out!
Diana Barry
N*rdstrom personal shopper? Or just go to Banana and pick out some shirts, sweaters and pants and a blazer or 2?
Carine
What do you mean by branch out? Wearing more colors? If he likes blue/green shirts, maybe get him a deep purple, red, or orange sweater to layer over and change things up a bit. You could also take him to a Brooks Brothers, start pulling some shirts, sweaters, and slacks in different colors and have him try them on. The sales staff there are usually very helpful without being pushy, and it might help him feel more comfortable trying something new if he has an expert voice encouraging him/agreeing with your recommendations.
Anon
Late to the party, but Brooks Brothers no-iron stuff changed my husband’s work life. He is too casual (and frugal) to send the stuff from Banana, Jcrew etc to the cleaners, but ironing it himself just looked a little schlumpy. BB has sales pretty frequently.
Bonnie
Start off with tame plaid and work from there. He can also try gray or navy pants instead of always wearing khakis.
Diana Barry
QUESTION ABOUT PICTURES:
Firm photo coming up. I think I will wear one of my standard grey suits since black is often harsh in photos. What top and necklace? I am thinking a solid color (not a print) and not a button-down, and not fuchsia since my current photo has that. I have a tippi sweater in burgundy and long-sleeve modal tops in black and purple; I have short-sleeve banana luxe tees in grass green and light greige; I have cardigan sweaters in most colors including burgundy, green, orange, red, navy.
Any ideas? I was thinking the tippi sweater since it is kind of classic looking and an interesting but not stand-out color. For necklace I was thinking either multi-strand pearl or silver pearl/bead.
V
Can you try on at home and have some one take a quick digital picture? Sometimes the camera’s uncritical eye can make your choice for you. I’ve never gone the sweater route (although my picture was in August) myself.
Carine
I really like the tippi sweater idea. I love burgundy with grey and I agree that it’s interesting but not too much. I wouldn’t do black, purple, or greige because they seem too basic and boring, but I’m not sure about the green tee. I wouldn’t do a cardigan. I don’t like the buttons and the necklace and the lapels–too much going on.
Holly
Agree about the buttons. I wore a plain august silk shell. They have a million colors (hopefully burgundy) and they may have neckline options.
ITDS
Look at the other firm photos. Ours are invariably black or gray suit jacket, bright top, pearls. One new person actually had hers re-done because she wore a blouse with a much lower neckline than everyone else did, and it looked funny on the page with everyone else’s pix.
Diana Barry
LOL, not enough other women to worry about. :)
NOLA
First time I’m traveling since I got my tablet. I’m seriously considering not taking my laptop and taking the tablet instead. I usually webchat with my SO in the mornings but he couldn’t get his camera to work this morning anyway. I have hangouts on my tablet so I could still chat but without video. I can look at email from work on my tablet but may not be able to answer it. Should I care about that? I can always call someone if there’s a problem. Or text. I will be on vacation tomorrow.
Cb
Do you not have a frontward facing camera on your tablet? I have Skype on my ipad and my Android phone and the video quality isn’t great but it’s nice to see the person while you’re chatting.
NOLA
That’s a good question. I haven’t tried to use anything like that on my tablet. I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3. I’ll play around with it.
NOLA
Well the specs say it has a front camera. I’ll have to play with that! He was struggling with why his webcam on his laptop wasn’t working this morning. I felt bad because it sounded like he couldn’t see what I was seeing so I couldn’t help him troubleshoot. He is actually taking another instructor class this weekend so he probably wouldn’t have a ton of time to chat anyway, especially since the class is about an hour away from his house.
Cb
Did a quick google and it does look like it should work. The Skype app should do the trick and I think google hangouts allows for video calling as well.
NOLA
Yeah we use Gmail videochat. He has not mastered Skype and, given the pressure he is under this week, II would not ask him to try that.
hellskitchen
I do videochat on my galaxy tab all the time. Skype is good but the best app for this is Tango. Your SO can download it on his computer as well. It’s completely free and I use it to chat with family around the world.
NOLA
Yes, I know that and I use Skype at work, but see above. He should be using it to Skype with his grandchildren but hasn’t done it yet.
hellskitchen
My parents are not tech savvy and they found Tango easier to use than Skype. I have started taking my Tab on trips instead of my laptop and it’s so much easier to carry around. I can reply to emails and even read docs and spreadsheets.
Former Partner, Now In-House
Can you draft and/or redline Word documents on your tablet? That is the function I most miss when traveling with my iPad instead of a laptop.
Equity's Darling
Have any Canadians ordered from Boden? How was the shipping time/duties?
TBK
Is anyone here a twin? My husband and I are thinking about not telling our twins who was born first and I’m wondering if that’s a good idea. They’ll learn eventually when they’re old enough to read their birth certificates, but a friend has twins and the “older” one sometimes lords it over the “younger” (by 10 min) one. I’d prefer they just think they’re exactly the same age. Also, we have a family name from my husband’s side that we’d always planned to use for the first child. The babies are the same gender, so we thought we’d just flip a coin and assign one name to one, and the other name to the other one. (So neither would feel like they got the better/worse name, depending on how they feel about the family name vs a name we picked because we liked it.) Is this a good idea?
Anon for this
(Frequent poster, don’t want to out myself, so anon here!)
I’m an identical twin and think that this is some bizarre advice. My twin and I always knew who was born first, and it didn’t matter in the slightest. Twins will bicker, because all siblings do, but of course they will think of themselves as the same age.
Far more important for you to spend your mental energy shielding them from the endless stream of comparisons that start right away. Sometimes that can get out of hand (not suggesting that it comes from a negative place, but it can have negative effects on the kiddos).
As for naming, that is hard–but it sounds like as a good a plan as any. It is truly impossible to predict how a child will feel about his/her name. To state the obvious, you should choose for the nonfamily name a name that you and your husband both really like, so that you two don’t convey to the children an obvious preference for one name over the other. They’ll take their cues from you, though, if you talk about how carefully and lovingly you chose their names.
anon
I am a twin, and younger than my brother by about 2 minutes. It has never mattered at all for one second! I think it’s actually pretty funny to think about him being the “older” one and me being the “younger” one. Honestly, I think it would be a little odd to refuse to tell your kids such basic info about their lives. Siblings will find something to argue with each other about anyway! I think your approach to the name is a good one. Good luck!
TBK
I guess we thought of it less as refusing to tell them and more as simply not mentioning it. I figure by the time they’re 7 or 8 they’ll figure out that one of them was born first and if they asked directly, we weren’t going to refuse to say or lie.
Anon for this
Hm. The children might or might not ask about it, BUT every other person you meet starting from the very beginning will! It’s one of the default conversation-makers with twins and twin parents.
Anon
No advice,but a story to share: I have a client who is a twin. He’s all “but we’re identical.” Smack-talking among the twin community — who knew? I’m not sure what happens among higher-order multiples.
Anon
There definitely is twin snarking when it comes to identical vs. fraternal. Hilarious, but true.
TBK – My younger brothers are twins and I can’t recall the older by two minutes one ever lording his age over the other. Of course they joke about it, but there are plenty of other things they fought over instead. My parents set the tone that it wasn’t a big deal and I think the rest of us just emulated that.
One conscious choice my parents made was to purposefully declare the two fraternal. To this day, we don’t know if they are actually identical (though a DNA test could settle that if the two ever elect to do so). Obviously being a twin invites all sorts of comparisons, but my parents felt that telling others they were fraternal was a good opener to emphasizing their differences as two individual children.
Anon for this
I’ve never heard of doing this and didn’t realize it was a thing. I don’t quite get it.
It’s a biological event that leads to twins, whether identical or fraternal. Why casually steamroll such a potentially personally important fact just to control what others’ perceptions are? Especially in the current age, there are many more fraternal than identical twins, and because of that the culture does a pretty good job recognizing twins as individuals and not a single unit. (Better than, say, 60 years ago, where the convention of rhyming names and matching outfits for twins was common.)
To each her own, though, and I’m glad that it worked for your family.
Orangerie
Wait… you don’t know if they are identical or not? Do they look exactly alike?
Anon (original)
I’ve never met the brother, so I don’t know if they look alike. I’m guessing the started out that way — they could be radically different sizes or otherwise obviously different by now.
I think that identical = much rarer = special fact to mention (or sign of superiority, who knows?).
I know a family where a mother and daughter (both fraternal girl-girl twins) had fraternal girl-girl twins (both in while in their 20s and no drugs or other procedures). That’s a statistic for you.
Orangerie
I wasn’t questioning your post – I was referring to Anon at 11:12 who said that she didn’t know if her own twin brothers were identical or not.
Mountain Girl
Identical doesn’t have to do with whether they look identical – it has to do with how they developed in utero. Some fraternal twins can appear nearly identical just as some siblings can appear nearly identical. And, some identical twins may not actually appear identical due to environmental factors, etc.
Annanon
Identical twins are genetically identical, but environmental factors (particularly in utero factors) can cause them to develop differences, sometimes visible ones. Height, in particular, can differ between identicals.
Fraternal twins can *look* as identical as true identical twins, but their DNA will not be identical. Lots of people think the Olsen twins are identical, for example, but they are actually fraternal. They just happen to resemble one another, like some siblings do.
You can’t actually tell for sure if twins are identical unless you do a DNA test.
CKB
I have twin nephews, and at first my bro & sil refused to say who was born first, but that only lasted until the boys were old enough to want to know who was older, and they told them. It hasn’t been a big deal at all as far as I can tell (they are almost 12yo now).
As for the names – first I have to say that I love using family names for middle names. My parents did it, we did it, my brothers have done it. I love the connection it gives to the past. So, that being said, is there another family name you can give your other son? All my boys (I have 3) have middle names that are named after 3 of their great grandfathers. One is a different name (Ellys), and my middle son wasn’t sure he liked it until I told him some stories about the great grandfather he was named after, and then he decided it wasn’t so bad, even if it was a little strange.
AnonA
You’d prefer that your kids are too dumb to figure out that they aren’t both exactly the same age? Tell them when they ask or you risk turning this into a big dumb thing. And maybe consider calming down. You can’t control babies/kids/pregnancy to this extent and should really stop trying.
TBK
Wow, that was harsh. I have no siblings so I don’t know what it’s like to have one be older or younger, or whatever. I was floating an idea. I don’t understand why you felt the need to respond this way.
Stormborn
I don’t think it was that harsh. It was a totally crazy idea. But first time moms (myself included years ago) get crazy ideas sometimes. I think it’s part of the process! But agree to make sure you let go of the more controlling ideas, it’s a setup for disappointment
CapHillAnon
TBK, you’re right–that was harsh and mean and out of nowhere. AnonA and Stormborn, I hope your bad days are improving.
Anon
I am a twin (fraternal, both girls) and have twins (fraternal, both boys). At the end of the pregnancy, we named “Baby A” and “Baby B” from the ultrasound, which likely corresponds to birth order, but isn’t exactly the same. And my parents named my sister a family name and I got another name that they just liked — it never mattered. Our names are our names and we couldn’t imagine having been named the reverse.
And being older or younger by a matter of minutes shouldn’t be a secret. It becomes more of a joke about who is “older.” For what it’s worth, I am the younger one and exhibit all the classic first-born traits and my sister is a classic younger child. So I think none of it really matters!
salt
Just LOL.
I’m an identical twin. I’m thirty minutes younger than my sister. (My mom had us w/0 drugs and I was breached–God love her!).
This was during the phase of that show Dinosaurs, when I was about 9-10? I used to constantly sing, “I’m the baby!” and really made a big deal about being “the baby.” It used to drive my sister crazy! (I have no idea why she did not carry on about being the oldest!)
But seriously, for birth order, my sister was always the first to do things, while I would watch and learn from mistakes. She seems older than me–very responsible while I was always kind of doing my own thing. She had her baby a year before I did (and she’s a neonatologist), so now I got to her with all of my questions and she’s very motherly/big sisterly in advice.
Still, I don’t think I wouldn’t tell them about who was born in which order–kind of weird. Our roles work for our relationship, just like traditional “First born” and “youngest child” sibling relationships!
Mountain Girl
I have twin sons who are 10 minutes apart. It’s never been an issue with who is older and, honestly, people ask who is older so if you choose not to tell them you are going to have to come up with a script to ward off those comments. If you are looking for advice from a mom of twins I would just tell them. It is what it is and there is no reason to hide the story of their birth from them.
Killer Kitten Heels
Any concern about family members expressing a preference or otherwise making the twin with the family name out to be “extra special?” I think it’d be hard on the “we just liked it”-named kiddo to watch his brother (or her sister) get extra attention from the extended family for being named after Great-Uncle Herman or Great-Aunt Sophie or whatever, especially if the family is likely to be making “chip off the old block! just like his namesake!” type comments.
FWIW, my H is not a twin, but he and his middle brother both have family names while the youngest brother does not, and it was an issue for the youngest brother when he was growing up (feeling left out, not as special, like the “leftover” kid because he didn’t have a “special” name, that sort of thing).
Killer Kitten Heels
I should add: This was because of how the extended family handled it, not because of anything my in-laws or my H did/said to youngest. The extended family is very traditional and has a tendency to attach a lot of significance to family names. (H and I are already getting pressure at family gatherings about what we “have to” name our children, and there are zero children in our foreseeable future.)
rosie
Yeah, I would be more worried about the family name issue than birth order.
Anon FamilyName
+1
My parents gave me my mother’s maiden name as my middle name. It is the most awesome name. All of my names together are awesome.
My sister’s middle name is Ann — WTF parents? Did you run out of good names / just not bother. Hi, I am Awesome Backstory and meet my sister, Vanilla.
Killer Kitten Heels
My maiden name is hideous so I wouldn’t saddle my kids with it in any form, even as a middle name, but if I had a cool maiden I think I’d give it to *all* of my kids as a middle. They’re all equally mine, right?
Side note, on one side of the family me and all of my female cousins have the same middle (grandma’s first name), and while the name itself isn’t that interesting, it’s pretty cool to be part of a tradition like that.
Divaliscious11
I have a twin niece and nephew. They are 3 minutes apart. However, Girl was born at 11:58 and Boy was born at 12:01 so no hiding who is older…..
Godzilla
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT BIRTHDAYS????????? Ha, that’s great.
Coach Laura
I read a news story recently about a triplet pregnancy that was a high-risk one. The first of three was born on the 25th (non-surgical) and the second and third were born later- one non-surgical followed by the third via c-section on different days! I think that mom deserves a Gold Medal. But those three triplets have three different birthdays.
Senior Attorney
That? Is awesome!!
preg 3L
I’ve been reading about child development and even with twins, the one born first will fulfill the “older sibling” stereotypes while the one born second will fulfill the “younger sibling” stereotypes. (You can look these up if you don’t already know about them — I think it’d be very useful for you to read about as an only child!) I think emphasizing that they are exactly the same age will make it harder for them to branch out from each other. I would emphasize that they’re each their own person, and if they ask who was born first, tell them. I was best friends with a twin growing up and she was always so frustrated that everyone expected her and her sister to be exactly the same, even though they didn’t even have the same favorite food! (ha.) So I wouldn’t hesitate to do whatever you can to help them embrace their differences. Also, I’m not a twin but I think you’ve gotten good feedback from twins already.
Securitization
Agree — if they have any math sense at all, they will recognize that this is a rounding error — they are the same age! Or just interject some error — well, that’s what the paper says, but you all looked so much alike that they may have gotten it wrong :) Wait — are you Henry or are you Jack? Or just split the difference — weighted average being-born moment?
Anon for this
Interesting. I’m skeptical about the birth order stuff applying to twins. Anecdotally, that wasn’t at all how it was in my family and with the 3 other sets of twins that I knew well growing up. I just don’t see how siblings of the same age exhibiting formulaic birth order patterns without some projecting/ encouragement from parents.
Gail the Goldfish
I’ve got a twin brother. He’s about a minute older (mom had a c-section). I think at some point in my childhood I think he teased me about it, but we were probably also about 4 and I don’t think it’s mattered since. More annoying was the fact he never needed glasses or braces as a kid, and I needed both. I definitely felt like I got the short end of the stick there.
I do, however, still tell him it’s his fault I was such as a small baby because he was taking up all the room.
Anon
My husband is an identical twin, and from what I’ve heard, his mom faced some similar concerns. She wanted to name one twin a family name with a lot of meaning, and the other twin a non-family name that she loved. They decided that they would give the “oldest” twin the non-family name, and the younger twin the family name to avoid any concerns about favoritism/fairness (or so the thinking went). At the actual birth, she faced some health issues, had an emergency c-section and was too out of it to know what was going on after the birth. So, their father and doctors got mixed up (I think someone may have wrongly thought the older one was the bigger one?) and wound up giving the ‘older” (by 2 minutes) child the family name and younger the other name. This has literally never been an issue for my husband or his brother, who get along wonderfuly, although I think his mom still feels guilty about it. For what it’s worth, the names each wound up with fit them perfectly — the one with the family name is incredibly similar in personality to his namesake, even chosing the same specialized career, while my husband takes after another side of the family. I guess the moral of the story is don’t overthink it! How you treat the twins day to day will make so much more of a difference in how they feel about each other than something as little as a few mintues difference in birth timing. As long as you don’t favor the older twin or make a big deal about it, it’s unlikely the kids will care very much.
posey
Is there any reason why the older/younger dynamic or the family name/name I liked dynamic is different for twins than for siblings in general? If you have two kids two years apart, you wouldn’t be able to do anything about birth-order traits or name-envy.
Mpls
Tell them, if they ask, which is older or younger. Tell other people, if they ask, who is older or younger. Don’t make a big deal about older or younger and your kids won’t make a big deal about it. They’ll only care about it if you show them it matters to you.
Name – give them both the same middle name, and use the family name for that? I always thought it was kind of mean to give someone the same first name as someone else in the family (especially a parent). I realize it’s tradition for some people, and I don’t want to jump on that, but I think there’s something nice about knowing you have something that’s all your own in your family.
R
Threadjack: Any thoughts on what color tights to wear with a navy skirt suit? I recently bought a navy suit with pants (this: http://www.anntaylor.com/tropical-wool-seamed-back-jacket/315885?prodId=315885&gridSize=md&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&colorExplode=false&skuId=14768132&defaultColor=1220) and am debating whether to purchase the skirt as well. Thing is, I prefer not to bare my legs and always wear opaque tights with dresses or skirts. I’ve seen more an more on pairing black and navy but I don’t know if the office is ready for that yet. I’m a brand new litigator in local government, fwiw.
ss
Chocolate or tan tights with like-coloured shoes work for me.
Niktaw
I usually wear grey tights with navy dresses and skirts, but always pair them with grey suede booties.
Is pantyhose an option for you? Sheer or semi-sheer black would work with navy and you can wear shoes in any dark color – red or purple for example.
I also like navy pantyhose a lot.
hellskitchen
I wear navy tights with my navy skirt but it’s a close match in the shades so it looks fine. In the past, I have paired gray tights with navy. I have also paired black tights with navy and it doesn’t stand out as much as you might think it would.
Lyra Silvertongue
I’ve worn my two navy suits in winter with opaque navy tights and plum suede shoes.
L in DC
I LOVE black and navy together. I wear a navy skirt with black tights and navy shoes. Or navy pants with black pumps and a black top. That sort of thing.
Proper Attire Needed
I tried to post this the other day, but didn’t have much luck. I’ll try again.
I anticipate needing attire for a funeral in the near future. Day event, California. It’s for someone on my husband’s side of the family and they’re fairly conservative. All of my clothes seem to either say I’m headed to work or to the beach. Ideally, I’d like to find something that I can wear beyond this event without it screaming that I look like I should be going to a funeral.
About me: 5’9″, 145 lbs.
Any ideas are much appreciated!
Basics
I went to two funerals in Southern California last week. Not fun.
To the Jewish one, I wore a white skirt, short sleeved black tshirt and long sleeved black and white patterned jacket. Bare legs and black leather slingback pumps. It was a workday. To the Catholic one, I wore a royal blue Tahari cotton sleeveless dress, a black wrap to cover my shoulders, bare legs and black mid-heel sandals. It was not a workday.
I felt appropriately dressed for the Jewish one. I did not feel out of place at the Catholic one (at least not for my wardrobe — I had never been to a Mass before, so that was a little disorienting), but I was surprised that almost everyone was in black, many of the men were in suits, and many of the women wore black hose. I had not appreciated how much more formal the Catholic one would be. Typing this, I realize I should add that the Jewish one was Reform. Had it been Orthodox or even Conservative, it would have been different.
A dark work suit, with a not-bright top, hose and pumps, would likely be fine for what you describe.
I don’t know where in CA you will be, but it has been in the mid 80s in Southern California, which puts a whole new spin on wearing black. So definitely check the weather.
Orangerie
I personally wouldn’t wear anything but black to a funeral. What if you bought a basic black work sheath that you could wear with a light black cardigan for the services and then repurpose with blazers and more colorful sweaters for work? I’m thinking something like this:
http://www.jcrew.com/womens_category/dresses/weartowork/PRDOVR~04948/04948.jsp
Orangerie
Or this one, which has sleeves:
http://www.jcrew.com/womens_category/dresses/weartowork/PRDOVR~08173/08173.jsp
Ciao, pues
in some cultures non-black is traditional for mourners. my understanding is that the family wears white in the buddhist tradition, and all mourners are in white in the hindi tradition.
Sad anon
I’m a Californian. I usually wear a black sheath dress (with a grey sweater if it’s cooler) and wedges in case any part of the funeral is graveside.
NYC
Yes, ditto on the black sheath. It is what I wear to every funeral, often with a drapey black sweater.
Anon
Anything business casual to business formal. I usually wear a dress I’d wear to work or a suit. It’s fine to wear work clothing – why not?
Coach Laura
I’d buy a black ponte knit sheath (with or without sleeves) from Talbots or Lands End. Talbots often has them on sale. I have a sleeveless sheath in black that I wear to work under a (non-suit type) blazer or cardigan and on the weekends under a sparkly sweater to the theatre or whatever. It’s very versatile and variable. For the funeral you could wear a black cotton cardigan or dark jacket over if you get the sleeveless version.
I also have a black talbots one that I got for $19 that is a faux wrap with sleeves.
Kat has posted the Lands End one recently.
Talbots link to follow.
Coach Laura
This Talbots one is good and on sale. http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi31115&mode=search&catId=&rootCategory=&trail=&addFacet=SRCH:sheath&viewAll=&conceptIdUnderSale=&prdi31115_selectedColor=0057&prdi31115_userAction=colorSwapSelection§ion=Regular&prdi31115_colorIndicator=regularColor&backurl=%2Fonline%2Fsearch%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fquestion%3Dsheath%26trail%3D%26pageNum%3D0%26addFacet%3DSRCH%253Asheath%26removeFacet%3D
This is the Lands End dress that people here have given good reviews and a good price.
http://www.landsend.com/products/womens-sleeveless-ponte-sheath-dress-with-pockets/id_242219
Coach Laura
Ooooh, this fit-n-flare one is pretty: http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi31861&rootCategory=cat70010&catId=cat80018&sortKey=Default§ion=Regular&conceptIdUnderSale=cat70010
Herbie
Morning, ladies! Anybody remember what Kanye East’s Etsy shop was called? Mama’s got some Christmas shopping to do.
NOLA
Gewgaw & gimcracks.
NOLA
Oops. Tried to cancel this one (without the s). obviously didn’t work.
NOLA
Gewgaws & gimcracks.
Herbie
Awesome! Found it – http://www.etsy.com/shop/gewgaws. Thanks, Nola!
ohc
Huh–I’m usually not into Peter Pan collars either, but this looks lovely.
I just need to squee about something pretty silly and nichey: my office has been dealing with a bunch of abandoned cats since the summer, and it’s quite possible that after tomorrow, they will *all* be adopted to good homes. HOORAY! I am definitely a cat person, and it’s just been heartbreaking to think about these cats being alone at night, especially as it has suddenly turned quite cold. One of them actually followed me down the driveway as I biked away last night.
(No, my office has nothing to do with animals. People just dump cats here because people are terrible.)
Sparrow
That’s great news! I love cats too and I get so sad seeing strays in my neighborhood!
Before we moved out of our old house, we made an outdoor enclosure for a stray that was coming around. Take one smaller storage container and put it inside a larger one. Fill the space between them with straw. Cut a hole on one side for an entrance and then fill the inside with straw. The straw will help insulate the box.
We eventually took the stray into our home, but left the box out for other kitties.
ohc
Sparrow, one of my colleagues actually bought something called a “feral cat villa”. So far, of course, no cats have deigned to sleep in it.
BB
Ugh. I hate seeing stray kitties too, especially when they follow you around and are clearly not fully feral. :( Our own cat is a stray we “snatched” off the street. Unfortunately, she’s a little (lovable) b**** and won’t let us save any more cats. When I lived in Hong Kong, I used to stop by and feed the stray cats in my neighborhood every night on the way home from work. There were one or two that were so friendly and I wanted to take them home with me so badly (but I was travelling for work all the time). I vaguely consoled myself with the fact that at least in HK, it’s always warm enough for them to live outside.
Glad to hear you’re finding homes for some of these kitties!
Hurray for Kitties
Good on you!
Anonymous
Off to hug my own cat…
hellskitchen
Recommendations for a moisturizing tinted lip balm that will work for pigmented lips and can be picked up at CVS or Walgreens? I am not expecting full opaque coverage but something that’s not too sheer. Tried Burts Bees and I found the texture too waxy. Any others that are good?
Anonymous
I like Maybelline Baby Lips.
Anonymous
Nivea kiss of cherry
Anon
Korres is the best
Anonymous
can you get Korres at the drugstore? I have a lipstick from them and I love it (I think it was a sample that came with a Sephora order years ago). It is amazingly moisturizing. But, I had no idea you could get it at the drugstore!
hellskitchen
Thank you. On my way to pick one up
JL
There were a couple of comments in yesterday’s post recommending jun league as a way to meet people. I’m curious … for those in DC / NOVA, it looks like there’s a chapter for DC and also a NoVA one. Does anyone have experience with either and would you recommend joining?
V
DC if you work downtown (was about half lawyers and ex-lawyers, there were a lot of happy hours at places I could occasionally get to). The NoVA one is in McLean IIRC and I wouldn’t have been able to master the logistics (not sure re demographics).
I loved the JLW. It was a lot of work to get to things, but I was always happy that I went. I’m a sustainer now.
JL
Thanks. I’ve met friends of friends who are very involved in JLW and got the impression from them that it was geared towards young staffers or recent colleges grads that had been very involved in sorority / Greek life in college and were looking for something like that post graduation. I don’t fit that profile at all so I stayed away but maybe should reconsider.
V
I joined a bit later than that. It is a huge group, so there are 20-somethings who went to SEC schools and people who are OMG I am getting married and older people are all BABY BABY BABY and still tons of lawyers of every stripe. I have kept a lot of my friends in the JLW and they were all older than me by a few years.
The kids will be more obvious when you are a provisional but after that you will probably connect with a broader group after that (or if you meet people outside of the JLW and remark that you are a provisional, that person may be in the JLW and you have a connection — I met people outside of the JLW all the time and then was happy to know more people when I went to the Christmas shop or the rummage sale, etc.).
mascot
I have a friend who was happy in the NoVa one. I met several of her league friends and they were a diverse, accomplished group of professional ladies.
ANON
Just got in from a fire drill. Numerous women were staring at me and talking while I was walking to my assigned station. I always assume they’re saying something critical but I shouldn’t – maybe they were saying something nice. My dam*n negative brain sometimes…
Equity's Darling
Oh don’t worry- I can tell you that I personally pretty much never notice outfits unless I really like them. And then I am that creepy person that will start and mutter to my friend about what a great dress that woman has on…I should just compliment people instead.
AND! Even if they were judging your outfit, fooey on them, because as long as all the critical parts are covered and you’re generally appropriate for your office and YOU like your outfit, then that’s all that really matters.
ANON
Thanks. I really like my outfit today (dark red halogen pencil skirt, winter white sheer button up with tank underneath, colorful scarf, black nylons and booties). I’m a little bit over dressed for my office today but I’m headed to a networking event after work that I’d like to look nice for. Everyone in my office is probably wondering why the heck I dressed nice today. Whatever though – I’d rather be overdressed than under dressed.
Orangerie
Everyone in your office is probably trying to get their own work done, and likely not paying that much attention to your wardrobe. Seriously, don’t worry.
PSA
Great selection of reasonably priced, “work chic dresses” on Gilt today!
Corduroy
Can anyone recommend a concealer for visible blue veins? I am very pale. I used to always joke that if I got any fair-er, I would be see-through, and alas….it’s occurred to me that there are blue veins on my temples that are rather prominent. Does anyone else have this issue? Have you found an effective concealer? These are not spider veins, but larger ones visible beneath the skin.
lucy stone
I have visible blue veins in wintertime. I stink at using concealer, so I use a primer from Benefit (That Gal) to brighten up my whole face before I put on foundation. This tones down my veins enough that you can only see them if you’re up close and personal with my face.
Romey
Hi ladies – when you wear black tights, do you only wear black shoes? Would another color pair of shoes look weird against black tights?
R
I generally commit to contrast or don’t — e.g. bright red shoes with black tights. Also the brown boot-black tights combo feels super chic, but it depends on what’s going on up top.
Terry
Read a rule of thumb somewhere that you want 2 of the 3 (skirt, tights and shoes) to match. Maybe a black skirt, black tights and grey shoes? To be honest, this comes up for me more with brown skirt/tight combos.