Tuesday’s TPS Report: Wool Stretch Square Neck Dress

129 Comments

1. So one lower priced alternative to the $650 dress only has as size 6 left and the other is gated. Boo!

   1. If you have an Amazon account, you can log into Myhabit

   2. Dobbin has several ponte dresses in this style. They are very well made and can be worn year round.

2. Love that dress. Love.

   1. I wish it didn’t have the released pleats below the waist — I think it is potentially an excellent postpartum dress, but I am pear-shaped and feel that the cut has a high potential to magnify the pear-ness.

      1. I think it’s a better fit for an apple or hourglass figure. #applehere

   2. Agreed. Gorgeous. I’d be tempted to take it to a tailor to change the pleatedness for gatheredness – but not on a $650 dress!

      1. I have this dress in multiple colors and love it. It is not quite the same — no pleats — but it’s also $500 less. It does have an exposed zipper, though.
         http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/vince-camuto-crepe-a-line-dress-regular-petite/4181669?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=INDIGO&resultback=671

         1. I love this, exposed zipper and all. Very cute!

         2. Thanks! I am in the market for a dress like this for business dinners where a suit is not required. I like the dress Kat posted, but it is WAAAAY more than I intend to spend.

3. I’m in a tough situation with my boyfriend. He’s a great guy and our relationship is great. But I think that deep down, I’m ultimately unhappy (not with him but just generally) and it’s been affecting the relationship over the last few months. He said to me that sometimes I seem resentful that he’s happy so I try to sabotage things by picking a fight. I wouldn’t have put it that way but it could certainly be the case.

   I just don’t know what to do. I love him and he’s the best person I’ve ever been with. I want a future with him. But I sometimes feel like while he makes my life better, I make his life worse. I’m so sad and conflicted. I want to be with him and be happy but I just don’t know if that’s possible. I don’t want to keep making him unhappy.

   I have a therapy appointment scheduled for next week but I would appreciate any thoughts.

   Thanks

   1. Anti-depressants.

      1. This. For when you’re just unhappy, for no reason, there is a solution.

   2. I don’t really have any suggestions, but I’m in a similar place. I’m trying really hard to keep separate in my head my relationship with my bf, which is great, and other aspects of my life, which are objectively fine but I’m really hard on myself about. My bf is a very cheerful person whereas I tend to be pessimistic, so sometimes I feel resentful and then hate myself for feeling that way. I am in therapy but not sure it’s helped very much. If it helps, remember that he loves you for a reason and try not to push him away just to test that (which is what I think happens with me and sounds like happens with you). Hugs!

   3. I’d say go into therapy with as open of a mind and as much self- compassion as you can. Therapy is work, but it can be incredibly rewarding. I’d communicate to your boyfriend what you’ve said here- you love him dearly, but you’re feeling unhappy. You’re using therapy to work on it because you care about yourself and your relationship, and you really appreciate his support during this time. Keep lines of communication open. That way he can see what’s going on as a product of depression/stress/sadness talking, which –crucially– is being worked on, and not just some inherent problem in your relationship. Good luck to you.

   4. Don’t decide for him that you make his life worse. One of my biggest struggles with depression is that I decide that everyone would be better off without me and then I just isolate myself. The problem is that it isn’t your decision to make. You should tell him that it’s a concern of yours and something you are working to improve, but don’t decide for him that he would be better off without you. If he felt that way, he wouldn’t still be there.

      1. Isolation is the biggest thing for me too when I’m in a depressive state. I just want to crawl into a hole, close the opening, and be by myself. Unfortunately, I’ve been through enough rounds of depression to now let my closest friends and family (like my husband) that I’m going through depression tendencies and to not take it personally when I’m unhappy (it’s not them!) and to not let me just sit at home in bed — that I should go out.

         It’s hard not to feel like a burden when you’re depressed, since I think the depressed mind amplifies everything relating to those feelings, but trusting others as much as you can when they say you’re not a burden and they like hanging out with you no matter what goes a long way.

   5. You are doing yourself a huge favor by going to therapy. Some years ago I was where you are — I honestly didn’t believe it was possible to be happy. Fast forward and after a lot of hard work with Dr. Shrink I’m actually… happy! Who knew?

      Wishing you the best. Be gentle with yourself and your boyfriend.

4. Cream Tea here – never heard from you and just wanted to check in. No pressure, obviously!

   1. Likewise, if you want a USA shipping instead. Hope it works out for Cream Tea though. First bite, first taste is just that – first!

5. Has anyone done the Vegetarian version of Whole30? I’m a vegetarian for religious reasons and I don’t eat any animals (fish, poultry, red meat). I do eat eggs and dairy.

   I have 10 pounds to lose and aside from the weight loss, would just like to eat healthier and have more energy. However, I’m concerned that I will feel so hungry on this diet, without the benefit of grains and dairy.

   Sugar consumption isn’t the big problem for me, it’s more the overconsumption of carbs (in bread, chapati, rice, etc.).

   1. Why don’t you just try to slowly modify the amount of bread you eat? I always find anything restrictive to be fine for a little while, then I binge and go back to old habits. Just start cutting the amount of bread/chapatti/rice in half, and increasing veggies see how that works for you? You won’t feel as deprived, and you’ll probably be able to maintain it.

   2. I have the exact same problem and similar diet like you. I had twenty pounds to lose and I have lost around ten. I have ten more to go. I have not followed whole 30. So no suggestions there.

      There are two things that helped me:
      I left eating refined carbs cold turkey. I just eat very little brown rice if I feel like eating rice. Most of the meals, I just eat curry with some yogurt or eggs (hard boiled, scrambled, omelette etc). I feel somewhat sharing this with others as I feel people pity me that I eat just curry with no bread/rice. But the thing is it worked for me without drastically changing my cooking.

      Second this is I started knitting. I am very good at what I eat till 5 PM. I come home between 5:30 and 6. I just eat anything and everything that is in my sight between 6 and 7:00PM. I desperately wanted to avoid that. So, as soon as I come home, I have my milk with protein powder and turn on TV and start knitting. Knitting keeps my hands busy and I don’t reach for snacks. It also distracts me from singularly focusing on my hunger. So after around 30 – 45 mins of knitting, I don’t feel hungry at all and have my dinner at 7:30.

      1. Do what works for you, but have you considered/would it be possible for you to just–eat dinner earlier? Or if not, have a heartier snack in the afternoons? I don’t want to come from a place of judgment, but my heart is just breaking at the thought of someone knitting so they don’t focus on their hunger. Your body is hungry because it needs food, and if you are that desperately hungry, I would really encourage you to do some self-searching to see if there’s another, different way for you to nourish your body (and soul).

         I definitely am not implying that what I do would work for everyone, but basically no matter how much I eat during a normal day, I am still going to feel hungry by 5:30 or 6. So I plan my days so that I can have dinner by 6 or 6:30. That works for my body better than waiting to eat until 7 because that’s what time “normal” people have dinner.

         1. What I am following now is what appears to work for me. If I have my dinner at 6 PM, then I will need a snack at 10:30 or 11:00 PM just before I go to bed. I don’t want to eat just before going to bed. Moreover, I want to have dinner with my husband and he has a long commute and can be home no earlier than 7:00PM. I have milk with protein powder which is a healthy snack for me and keeps me from starving. All I need to do is give my brain some time to register that I just had milk which is around 30 mins and I choose to knit during that time which doubles as a method to disconnect from work and unwind.

   3. I think whole30 would be hard vegetarian. They have guidelines on their website, but it’s not a challenge I would want to take on.

      If you scroll further back in this blog, a friend of mine who is vegan did a Whole30-type program: kathleenva dot tum b l r dot c o m (remove spaces, obviousl)

   4. That’s just basically not eating food. Which will help you lose weight but maybe a bad plan.

   5. You don’t need to follow Whole30 to do this. What you are describing is pretty much how I eat. I am a vegetarian and I don’t generally eat pasta, bread, etc. I eat small amounts of it when I don’t want to be a complete PIA to people who are hosting or whatever, but I also always travel with food. I stopped eating those types of things cold turkey, but that may not work for everyone. As someone above mentioned, just cut back on what you already eat. Where I would eat pasta, I eat zucchini pasta (my lunch today coincidentally). I eat a lot of legumes. I occasionally eat tofu, but find it messes with my stomach sometimes.

      Here’s a run down of my typical weekday food intake:

      (1) Breakfast is GF oatmeal with fresh berries, apple butter or honey (for sweetening), sunflower butter, with milk of some sort.
      (2) Morning snacks – dried apricots and Boom Chicka salty sweet popcorn.
      (3) Lunch – two small zucchini’s worth of “pasta” with red sauce, chick peas, and Parmesan cheese, mandarin orange slices, two Reese’s PB cups.
      (4) Afternoon snack – plain greek yogurt.
      (5) Dinner – kale quinoa patty, apple, and broccoli.

      I sometimes toss a protein bar in there for a snack. I don’t have any trouble getting full and I feel nourished.

   6. I did Whole30 and it was a fantastic thing for me, although I did it to address long standing digestive issues that I couldn’t put my finger on. The Whole30 plan was actually pretty easy for me, as I already adhered to many of the practices of Whole30. More than anything, Whole30 helped me identify what was bothering me digestively and I’m now 6 months out and doing so much better. The idea of Whole30 is absolutely not to stick to it forever – it’s to ‘re-set’ your body so you can figure out how your body responds to certain foods. It definitely did that for me.

      I’m not a vegetarian, although I don’t eat a lot of meat anyway. There is a chapter in the book on doing Whole30 as a vegetarian. I would read that chapter – it won’t take you long – and will let you know if it makes sense for you.

   7. I’ve been trying to lose weight and what worked for me is cutting down on rice, naan etc. I eat chapatis (because they’re whole wheat and I prefer them with no oil or just a bit of cooking spray), quinoa, brown rice/quinoa/whole wheat pasta as sides on a regular basis. I try to replace rice with chapatis whenever I have Indian food and it has made such a huge difference in my energy levels.

   8. Check out the Tone it Up (TIU) nutrition plan. Although I feel it is geared toward a 20-something audience, there is a great community and they have a meal plan for vegans. The concept is lean, clean, and green. I follow it to an extent and feel really great and have seen good results.

   9. The blogger at Healthy Tipping Point has several posts on doing the Vegetarian Whole 30, what she ate, and how it worked for her. As I understand it, it’s actually very different from the “regular” Whole30 — among other things, you can eat legumes. For me, that would be huge. May also allow ghee (or that may have been her own modification).

6. IMO, this type of high waist is not flattering on most people.

   I love that REI is closing all its stores on Black Friday and paying all of its employees to take the day off. Hope other stores follow suit.

   1. I was just about to post that I wish the waist were lower. I am tall and long-waisted and this waist would be way up around my ribs — but it’s not even flattering on the model. Just put it an inch or two lower!!!

      1. I thought the dress looked funny at first, but then realized that for once, what was unflattering on a model might be perfect for 5’4″ me. If I assume she’s 6 inches taller than I am, then the waist and hem are both in better places.

   2. I only wear flats so I find this kind of high waist quite useful in creating the proportions that we usually expect.

7. Has anyone here tried Le Tote? I’m curious on a couple things: 1) how fast does the first box arrive and how fast do clothes arrive after you send back a box? 2) are the clothes decent enough quality (obviously don’t need to be amazing quality because you’re not purchasing, but decent enough for 1-2 wears), 3) do you find that available options refresh often enough to always have enough to pick from, especially things that are warm enough for colder months? and 4) are there enough options for petites?

   I would be using it to supplement my wardrobe (obviously that’s the point!) to get me through those days when I’m extremely tired of wearing the same things all the time that I already own. And maybe to try out some styles that I otherwise wouldn’t purchase.

   1. If you’re unsure, see if they’re offering a free-month trial– they used to offer those all the time. There’s an automatic renewal, but you can cancel it before it charges you anything. My “free month trial” got extended a couple times for various reasons, so I ended up having it for about 6 or 7 weeks, which was nice. In that time, I probably had 7 or 8 boxes, because I tried to wear everything and ship back quickly. The boxes shipped very quickly, and I usually had them within about 3 days. I liked the quality, for the most part, but got a couple duds. Definitely higher quality than Stitchfix, which I’ve also used. I ended up not subscribing because $50/month just was too much for my budget, but really enjoyed the fresh influx of clothes into my wardrobe (and gave me some good ideas for mixing and matching my current clothes and figuring out what “gaps” to fill).

   2. I love Le Tote. The first box was on my door within 3 days. Once I send back a box, the next one comes a week later. I live in Pennsylvania so might be faster for someone who lives closer to the West Coast. I do wish it came a little faster but I still get around 3 boxes a month. I’ve been a member for 3-4 months and haven’t been disappointed with a single box. The nice part is if you like everything you receive and keep the items, your next month is free. The quality of the items seems better than Stitch Fix and more reasonably priced.

   3. I really dig le tote. I moved from corporate law firm to nonprofit/alternative education, and don’t have the shopping budget I used to have. But $50/month keeps me from shopping, and still feeling like I get fun clothes to wear.

      You get 3 clothing items and 2 accessories a box. I randomly get 4 clothing items per month because I bought something. You can buy out of your tote (it’s essentially used, but it’s discounted from retail). It ships USPS from San Fran.

      I dig the jewelery/accessories–I don’t ever want to BUY costume jewelry, but it’s fun to wear it every week.

      Anecdotal, but I work with teenagers,( where you having cute shoes means they are more apt to cooperate with you). A kid today told me that I was “always stuntin'” (this is a compliment, I found).

   4. Thanks for the votes of confidence, ladies! I just ordered my first Tote. I’m attending a wedding this weekend and was excited to be able to include two statement necklaces in my first order.

      And like c, I’m hoping this will keep me from actually buying as much stuff, since I’ll still have lots of new things to try all the time. I also don’t buy a lot of costume jewelry but do love to wear it!

8. I really need a weekend away with my bf amongst all the weddings and other gatherings we go to constantly and work being stressful. I’m thinking some type of romantic b&b or “glamping” or something similar, somewhere with pretty foliage/scenery. We’re in Philly and it needs to be within a 3 hour drive, and no more than $200/night. The only weekend that works is in late November. Ideas? TIA!

   1. If you really want to stay local, there’s always the Brandywine Valley. ;) The NY Times did a 36 hours on this area sometime in the last year or two.

      Late November will probably be too late for foliage in the Philly area, and I doubt you’ll find it even going 3 hours south.

   2. This night be a four hour drive depending on where you live in philly, but we just got back from the most beautiful weekend in orange Virginia. Stayed at the holladay house, did the chefs tasting at Elwood and sparks, toured and tasted a lot of wine and saw Monticello. The mountains and foliage are beautiful right now- hopefully they still will look ok in a month.

   3. For somewhere close, what about Jim Thorpe, PA?

   4. thanks for the suggestions!

9. I know that law school debt is easily >150K for 3 years.

   For med school, I am assuming that it starts at 200K (4 years) and you don’t really start repaying it until after residency (so it balloons then up to at least $250K, at which point you’re 32ish if you’ve gone straight through)?

   Trying to get some rough but realistic #s to throw at a teen who is getting a lot “doctors are rich” so it’s OK to borrow for undergrad if you think you will be a doctor someday. Um, no (but I’m a lawyer, so what do I know?).

   1. Where my brother is in med school, it’s over 50,000 per year just for school, not including cost of living. If the COL allowance is similar to what it was for me in law school, you’re looking at more like 300,00 just for medical school, not including any interest.
      If they work at a nonprofit hospital they’re eligible for PSLF, but who knows how long that program will be around…
      Most med schools also don’t have low income repayment plans like some law schools have, as far as I know, so it really limits the specialties you can go into.

      1. And doctors aren’t making nearly as much as they used to.

         1. I know — I think that doctors are generally employed (unlike law grads) and it is easier to get a part-time job if you want to work part time (esp. in peds or primary care), but the entry fee is very high (and nondischargeable).

            I think you would not want any undergrad loans on top of that.

         2. Puhlease. Perhaps true if you are a pediatrician, but plenty of other specialists are still making huge salaries plus incentives. Anesthesiologist? Check. Cardiologist? Check. Urologist? Check. Neurosurgeon? Check, check, check. Even for primary care, many institutions offer loan repayment programs, particularly if you are in an underserved area. I believe salaries for most medical specialties have increased more than the cost of living in recent years, or at worst, have held steady.

            1. I think that this is the reason that no one does primary care anymore. I think that people go into medicine b/c they want to be a doctor and then when you owe $400K and you’re 35, you figure that *someone* has to be an orthopedist.

            2. +1000

               Right?? I love this site but some (not ALL) commentators seem really out of touch when it comes to wealth and money. There are actually a shortage of doctors in a lot places and dont have much trouble finding a job – especially compared to other fields. From my knowledge doctors are making the most they have been in recent decades. Yeah medical school costs are still through the roof but they are making bank

            3. Eh, I don’t think so. My husband is a radiologist, and he still certainly makes good money, but it isn’t what it used to be. His superiors are locked in to salaries that are a lot bigger than his. It was worth it for him at this point, but I would certainly be worried that salaries would continue to decline.

               You also picked many of the specialties that have the longest residencies, so clearly they will make more. But it’s still a risk, and it isn’t certain that the student in question will want to go into those specialties. We can’t use neurosurgery as the standard, just as you can’t use big law as the standard.

            4. You also give up the ENTIRETY of your twenties. Having seen it, it’s a ton to give up even for a pretty good salary. He always had a test to study for. He was stressed a ton. He didn’t become a real adult until he was 33. He lost all of the time that I was contributing to my 401k and saving money.

               I’m not saying they’re destitute, obviously. They do make good money. But doing all of that to make like $150 or something is just not worth it. Yes, they can usually find a job, but they aren’t going to be great jobs. And these underserved areas you’re discussing are underserved for a reason usually—nobody wants to live there.

   2. I’ve had this conversation with my very best friend. She’s a surgeon in third year of residency. Her salary out of med school was $55k and grows (barely) every year thereafter. Med school loans are $295k and counting. She didn’t go to an ivy, but went to a good program and is in a good residency. She’s trying to do so many years at non-profit hospital and get loan forgiveness (partial is available, not full). But, she says it will be years – double digit years – until she feels “rich” based on today’s expense load (ie: no kids, no mortgage), which is a function minimum required payments she has to make today plus the low salary she’ll make until she is of a certain level/seniority. She’s 31 today; took a year off between college and med school, so she’ll be “rich” at 45, then deduct mortgage and kid expenses, and then she’s not rich again.. you get the idea.

      She’s happy and this is absolutely her desired career path, but really HATES when people go “you’re a doctor you must be SO RICH” because it’s so far from the truth in her experience and in the experience of all of her friends.

      1. This answer is so misleading. She’s making $55K as a RESIDENT. It’s not anywhere near the six figure salary she will make when she completes her residency and takes a permanent position. She’s still in training!

         1. Well, duh, but she’s making that for A LONG TIME. And THEN she starts paying her loans, which are huge.

         2. You’re equally misleading. If she specializes – which she is likely to do – her residency could be as many as 8 years. A permanent position is far off for her. Six figures net of training, loans and life is not capital letters RICH.

            1. Short of pediatricians, I disagree. I work in the industry and don’t know a single “poor” physician, assuming full time work. I would not even consider any of them to be middle class. Yes, they work hard and yes they did not earn high salaries while training, but they are not struggling.

            2. Edited: Her residency is 6 years, without specialty. 2 in hospital (grueling), 2 in research (more 9-5, which is what she does now) and then 2 more in hospital (less grueling, but still more grueling than anything I’ll experience).

               Add a specialty? Add years.

            3. I’m not arguing anyone is poor – never used the word. I said no one is getting “capital letters RICH.” If I was trying to convince someone to be a doctor because they get RICH, I’d use this anecdata to have them consider otherwise.

         3. But residency is so long. It’s fair to point out that it’s not like law school where you can graduate and immediately start making $160K (at least in theory…). To be a doctor, you have four years of school where you are racking up major six figure debt and then you have another four to six years where you are barely enough to cover living expenses and can’t pay down the debt. Her point is that the perception of many doctors as “wealthy” is wrong. If you’re 32 and just starting to pay down $300K of student loan debt, you are not “rich” under any definition – unless you’re making half a million a year or something, which I’m pretty sure doctors don’t.

            1. But you could easily make $250K to $300K right out of residency, which is definitely enough money to pay down debt and to live comfortably. Assume that it takes you 10 years to pay down your debt, you are now 40 or 45, and you have 20-25 years of very high income potential (in most specialties, easily $100K in salary/year in excess of non-physicians around you) to make up for the years where you were in training. Also, there is virtually no chance that you will be unemployed. That would meet my definition of “rich” every.damn.day.

            2. I don’t think the $250-$300K number is very accurate. Employed physicians and surgeons in academic medical centers usually have a salary guarantee + incentive pay structure, with productivity, patient satisfaction, and corporate citizenship all factoring into the incentive. A surgeon just out of residency would likely bring in $150-200K in NYC for the first few years while her business ramped up.

               In private practice, you can make more, but you’re paying for both clinical and clerical staff out of what you make, plus space, supplies, malpractice premiums, etc, so what you can pay yourself varies and there’s a lot of risk.

            3. I have to laugh a little at these discussions. There clearly aren’t a lot of doctors on this thread. Which of course doesn’t surprise me.

               I am a doc, trained in a medical field (not surgical). 4yrs med school (much more painful and exhausting than law school…. let’s be honest here) + 4yrs residency + 3 years fellowship. During fellowship I was doing research + seeing patients + writing grants + writing papers + teaching + being woken up frequently at night with crises. And I got paid in the 80k range. But at least it was now a rarity in which I was up all night in the hospital. Treating severely ill patients. Now I am over 100K and approaching 150k and I will likely never see > 200K unless I am a chairman. The stress is incredible. I have a beeper on me at all times. Sometimes I wonder if I should be a doctor, as I cannot compartmentalize, unfortunately. The stress falls over into all of my off hours as I try to use free time to follow-up on patient issues, write grants and try to learn.

               There are certain subspecialities in medicine that can make a lot of money, especially if they are in private practice, and especially if they are selective in the populations that they treat. This is actually a problem in medicine. And it is changing. Private practices are drying up. No one can deal with the stress and expense of trying to run a business and take care of patients and the insurance company/Medicare/Medicaid complexities are too complicated. Most of us are going to large academic centers that also help cover insurance liabilities, have help with the systems issues and do high quality, thoughtful medicine. And pressure is on to see more patients, in less time, with better outcomes. Because you CAN lose your jobs in these centers as people want these jobs. And medicine is become more and more complicated by the day. While it is necessary to continue medical education indefinitely so we keep up with the fields and certifications, it is also stressful and draining and takes up weeks of vacation days.

               But I guess I always have a job…. If I’m willing to move to Idaho. Too bad if my spouse has a job elsewhere and my elderly parents who need help don’t live in Idaho. And you think life is nice and easy in Idaho? Since I will be the only person in my specialty at that medical group, I will have every other week on call, covering the hospital.

               For the amount of money most regular doctors make, and the amount of time it takes and deferred income, the very high stress, it is no wonder that the demographics of doctors are changing. Just wait 20 years….

   3. How teen are we talking? I’m not sure it’s a great idea to kill young dreams like you’re planning to. Teen in college not getting good grades, a dose of reality may be called for, but a young teen with an interest in science who’s smart? Why crush it?

      1. Sounds to me like HS senior– looking to apply to colleges and saying “it’s fine, I can go in debt to my top school because I’m going to be a rich doctor!”

         1. I think the better argument is that it’s exceedingly difficult to get into medical school. So, if you are counting on paying your undergraduate loans with your MD degree, what happens if you don’t get into medical school? If you check the AAMC website, the statistics are listed. In 2013, there were 50,000 applicants for 20,000 positions, and that’s taking into account that many applicants with lower GPA’s or MCATs did not even bother to apply.

            1. +1. I agree that this is a little horse before cart – the student in question may decide to become a doctor and get admitted to medical school, OR may hate organic chemistry and decide not to pursue pre-med any more. So, yeah, I wouldn’t take out giant loans for undergrad on the assumption you’re definitely going to be a doctor someday.

            2. Yea, don’t take out big loans for undergrad on the theory you’ll be a doctor. Law schools are littered with former pre-meds who changed their minds.

      2. Also something to consider is the fact that after you get into an MD program, the undergrad you went to doesn’t matter.

         My undergrad school name (and law school name and personal connections) helped when I was looking to make the switch into biglaw after I landed at a midsized firm as a 2011 grad but when I look around at peers from law school who went to free or lesser known undergrads, I’m proud to say that they did just fine.

         The joke is what do you call someone who finished last law school? unemployed. what do you call someone who finished last in medical school? doctor.

         tl;dr: if you know you’re going to go into debt for medical school anyway, why not go to the school that will put you in the best position to get into medical school without a load of debt?

      3. No one is killing a dream.

         Debt from undergrad may kill your dream though. Debt limits your options. Debt means “I like science, but can’t be a high school teacher b/c I owe 100K for my undergrad from Private U.”

      4. Also need to consider the resources going to the undergrad school provides. My peers from my undergrad were super helpful in the law school application process and also once I got to law school since 1/3 to 1/2 of our class goes to law school at some point and our “career counseling” resources were the WORST.

         I’m also convinced that my sibling would not have gone to medical school in an efficient way (directly from undergrad) without her peers from her undergrad school all being highly motivated folks who are ALL doctors now.

   4. Here is a better way to look at it: if she wants to be a doctor, she needs to plan for paying for eight years of school. Four of those make it easy to get merit aid; four are pretty much “take out loans for the entire amount.”

      If her parents are willing to funnel unspent undergrad money to med school, her debt burden is radically different.

      Let’s say she can do undergrad for free or nearly free, and her parents will give her $100,000 for med school, since they aren’t putting it towards college. That means exiting med school with about $150k in loans.

      Contrast with taking out, say, $50k for undergrad and the full cost of med school. Then she’s in the hole north of $300k.

      Doctors make good money, but they aren’t rich. They are very comfortable, and it will make a big difference to her well-being (and ability to have work-life balance) to have substantially less debt.

   5. I think it’s certainly fair to point out that doctors take on a ton of debt and it takes a very long time to pay off and that longer timing can interfere with other things people typically want in their early-mid 30s like houses and children (although my impression is the odds of having no option for employment whatsoever is less of a risk than it is for lawyers).

      If it were my teen, I’d probably emphasize how limiting taking on undergrad debt can be. She may be sure she wants to be a doctor now but people change so much in college and beyond. I don’t think any of my friends are doing what they said they wanted to do at freshman orientation, I certainly am not. If she’s taken on six figure debt to go to college, she may feel like she has no choice but to go into a high-paying profession and that feeling of being trapped is not a pleasant one. Point out that this choice would foreclose (or at least make considerably more difficult) all sorts of other careers like writing, academia, teaching, public interest work, etc.

      1. I think your comment is right on point and probably the most relevant for a teen thinking about taking on a ton of undergrad debt.

   6. I went to private undergrad (and on to law school). My sister went to a state school undergrad with a full ride and on to med school. She performed really well in undergrad and was easily able to get in to all of her top choices in our state. Many of my friends who attended private undergrad with dreams of being doctors did not perform as well in school and have been unable to get into medical school. My undergrad (and many others) boasted high admission to med school numbers but my experience is that those numbers are inflated by the school strongly discouraging candidates from applying whom they don’t think will get in. I would consider that when deciding whether a more expensive school is worth it.

      On a related note, some states subsidize medical education and medical schools in those states can be significantly cheaper than law schools. My sister’s tuition was much lower than mine even though we both attended public state graduate schools. I don’t know the details or how it works exactly, but I would look into it when forecasting medical school costs.

      1. On a similar note, some state schools offer in-state tuition to medical students. A friend of mine went to an undergrad/MD program (which I do not recommend). But in undergrad, she established permanent residency in that state, which led to a significant discount on med school tuition. So whether private or public undergrad, it might be worthwhile to see if there is at least one well-ranked public medical school she would go to in the same state. If so, start establishing permanent residency immediately (I believe in some states it can take 3 years if you’re a full-time student).

   7. I spend a lot of my days drafting physician employment contracts, including salary provisions, and I will say that physicians of all types are generally making a substantial amount of money, often with negotiated forms of forgivable loans offered by the hospital/group. Even first years have the ability to negotiate. There are also loan repayment options available depending on the community where they work.

      However, your question was about undergrad loans. I do think even with the high earning potential for doctors, high undergrad loans is a bad idea when there are great state schools or smaller institutions offering scholarships that can be affordable. Someone with excellent grades at an ok undergrad can still go to a great med school.

10. My cousin is getting married and she asked me to “MC”- it is not going to be a super formal event so I don’t think it will be much other than a quick speech at the beginning and maybe leading a toast. She said she would give me some details later today.

    Does anyone have any resources for writing speeches for this type of thing? The complicating factor is that it is a second marriage- he first husband died at a young age of cancer (and this new guy actually knew him). I will ask her about it first, but my gut says she will want it acknowledged in a tiny way. Any resources for that type of speech would also be appreciated.

    Thanks!

    1. This isn’t really what you asked, but a suggestion — I recently went to a wedding where no one was filling the MC role, and it felt kind of weird having big events (first dance, cake cutting, etc.) just happen with no announcement. So if you can, in addition to giving a speech or a toast, I’d also plan to announce things throughout the evening. Even if it’s very informal, like “It’s time for the cake cutting!” or “It’s time for the first dance!” Just something to direct people’s attention to whatever ceremonial event is about to happen so that they don’t miss it.

       1. Good point. She just sent me a simple itinerary and it included announcing these events

       2. THIS. My cousin stepped into this role at my sister’s wedding at the last minute- basically just making announcements and turning people’s attention to what was going on and where to go. It was hugely helpful and made the whole event more seem more organized and planned, and no one missed cake cutting, et al.

11. Thanks for the advice, friends! I had a blast in KC this weekend. We *loved* the Arabia Steamboat Museum and Fritz’s Railroad Restaurant (where you order by picking up an old-fashioned phone, and the food is delivered by an overhead miniature train with a hydraulic lift). Dazzling. We ran out of time to do too much more, b/c of wedding obligations. Thanks for the suggestions!

12. I’m in final interview stages with Company A and Company B. Both are in my field, but B is my dream job. A is just a job.

    I was supposed to have my final interviews with B tomorrow and A on Thursday, so ideally I could tidily accept B and reject A in the same swoop. B has just rescheduled my final interview for next Thursday (8 days from now). I expect an offer from A by early next week.

    I haven’t responded yet to the email from B telling me about the schedule shift. Is it appropriate to mention that I’m in final interview stages with another organization? (They do know I’m interviewing elsewhere.) B has exceptionally cumbersome administrative processes and I’m afraid if I waited until I had an offer from A, B wouldn’t be able to move fast enough to get me through the end of the interview and offer process. Thanks for the advice.

    1. It’s a week. I don’t think you need to do anything.

    2. If you hear back with an offer from A, ask how long you have to accept the offer. If you do happen to hear back from A before interview with B, then as you conclude interview B, ask about their timeline. Mention the offer from A only if there is a conflict, or it seems like the timing will be tight.

13. Did anybody watch Supergirl last night? I liked it!

14. I ordered the dress from 6pm from last Frugal Friday and I’m wearing it today. It fits loose (I’m usually between a 12-14, ordered the 12, probably could have ordered the 10). Very happy with it! I’m 5’9″ and it hits right at the top of my knee, so it’s not too short either.

15. Hive question.

    Last week I attended a mergers an acquisitions conference for which the audience was largely attorneys and other folks in the industry (bankers, valuation consultants, etc.). As you might expect, it was a largely male audience–probably ten women in a room of over 150.

    I have no issues shaming anyone here–the Chief Justice of the DE Supreme Court, Strine, made a number of overtly awful and sexist comments. They weren’t one-offs–they were long anecdotes about how hot Cindy Crawford was, and how Revlon always made him think of her and her hotness. There were other statements too. They were so bad that the other panelists were cringing and so was much of the audience. I was so annoyed. The panel just kept on going though, and then, at the end, he made more rotten comments. No one said anything.

    This was not necessarily an audience-participatory event, aside from some questions later. If these remarks were made against another minority group, people would have stood up in outrage. It didn’t help that many of the audience members were litigators who might have to appear before the DE court, although there were plenty of corporate-types.

    I contacted the bar association that put the event on, and suggested that perhaps the next time they have this conference, they have a women’s networking event, to which they heartily agreed. But that didn’t really cleanse the super-sour taste in my mouth. A whole room

    There are still parts of law and finance that are extremely not female-friendly, and I feel like a whole room of old white men thinking, sure, let’s just make comments on women’s bodies and all laugh about it (among other things) is not helping create a good environment.

    Am I crazy-over-sensitive? This wasn’t the place to make a scene, but how would you have handled it? Do you just go along to get along? FWIW, I have been negatively affected career-wise by serious sexism issues in this industry, and that might color my perception on this minor matter.

    1. There was really nothing you could do in the moment without potential ramifications for yourself. If you want to make sure it gets noticed now, complain to whatever the Delaware judicial oversight board is. Or contact a reporter.

    2. Isn’t this exactly what burner accounts and emails to Above the Law are made for?

       1. +100

       2. Yea I would totally be sending this to Above the Law.

    3. I’m hesitant to say anything, but the Chief Justice’s attitudes (and penchant for controversial remarks) are well-known locally. I don’t know that there’s much you can do about it, unfortunately.

    4. I so hear you on this BS.

       I agree, burner account email to whoever you think can make a difference.

       I freaking hate this crap.

    5. I have an event seared into my memory from 15 years ago when my company’s EVP made a tasteless joke about bre@stfeeding at a company-wide meeting where I was the only nursing mother in recent history (also a male dominated field). I still cringe and wish there had been something that I could have done at the time. I think publicizing it or outing him is important to do, as he is a public figure, not just a company exec. If you can do it anonymously, I’d hope that you could.

       P.S. Kat – love the dress

    6. Based on the examples you give, I do think you are overreacting. The behavior sounds unprofessional but not sexist. I’d just let it go.

       1. I know you’re probably not reading at this point, but this is literally the dictionary definition of sexism. What a piece of scum.

16. DH and I are expecting our first child in a few months. We have never had any problems with division of labor in the home– we take turns cooking, each do our own laundry, and otherwise have a good balance. I rarely feel like he expects me to handle certain things because I’m the “wifey.” I have noticed that sometimes I’m expected to handle traditionally female things like RSVPing to weddings, shopping for and wrapping Christmas gifts, but I find that when I ask him to take care of it (i.e. the Christmas gifts for his side of the family), he usually does. I don’t want to delegate; I want him to recognize what needs to be done and do it, but for the most part, it has not been a problem.

    However, as we prepare for the baby, the division of labor has been a joke. By “division,” I mean “I do all of it.” As any of you who have prepared for a baby can probably attest, I have spent hours upon hours calling daycares to get on waiting lists, researching which carseat is best for safety and economy, which crib is pretty but also functional, which breast pump is most efficient to take to work, etc. A lot of these are things that I need to handle myself (why would DH need to decide about the breast pump?), but a lot of them are things that both of us have to do for the care of the baby.

    Today I asked DH if he would pick out a high chair and add it to our registry. He responded that was “above his pay grade” and I would have to do it. I joked that since I added the first hundred items to our registry, maybe he could handle this one. He was not amused. He said he did not appreciate me “creating more work” for him, and I responded that meeting our child’s needs is not me “creating work” and even if it were, why is it acceptable for that work to be created for me and not for him? I think he got bored of the budding argument and just agreed to pick out a high chair so I would drop it. I did drop it (though there’s still no high chair on the registry, but I’ll give it a few days).

    Anyway, I am becoming very, very concerned that I’m going to end up mommy-tracked in my own household. DH was the one who first brought up that it might be time for kids (he’s older), and I know he wants to be an active father, but I am worried that he only wants to do the fun parenting parts and is going to expect me to handle the crappy necessary parts.

    Am I overthinking? Is there any way to nip this in the bud before it gets worse? Thanks for any advice.

    1. You are not over thinking. Talk about division of labor re child rearing and all that goes into being a parent now before LO arrives. Some if it you won’t know to consider ahead of time as first-time parents, but you can certainly voice your very real concerns and also talk through some of what is predictable: who gets up at night with the baby, who gets up in the morning, who changes diapers. Will there be an equal division of household chores and baby tending? Of will one of you now take the lead on one or the other?

    2. No experience with this, but I do not think you are over-reacting. I would be very, very upset if my husband told me a task was “above his pay grade” and expected me to do it.

       1. I think you meant “below his pay grade” if I’m correct- otherwise the comment assumes that he is not equipped for the task?

          1. I assumed he meant “above his paygrade” as in, he’s saying he doesn’t know how to pick out a high chair and thus she has to handle it. Still concerning and something to talk about, but far, far less offensive than saying “below his pay grade,” as in, he’s too good to do it.

             1. Yes, okay…much less offensive, but still concerning!

             2. Yes, he was saying that he doesn’t know how to pick out a high chair and it’s consequently “above” his level– not offensive in that he didn’t mean he’s above it and I’m not, but concerning in that he assumes I have some innate feminine understanding of high chairs. Clearly, I don’t know any more about high chairs than he does…. And the time it would take me to find out is just as valuable as the time it would take him to find out.

    3. Nip it in the bud by having a discussion with him and laying it out exactly as you did above. The usual rules apply about picking a happy time and place, not when anyone is rushed/exhausted/mad/etc. One thing that might help is once a month or so, work together to create a master list of “baby-related stuff we need to do”. Make the list *together* so that he feels ownership of it (as opposed his perception of you shoving a list of work in his face). The right attitude to approach this is “Hey partner, we’re such a great team. Can we tackle this baby problem with our usual awesome approach of analyzing the work that needs to be done and splitting it evenly?”

       Then, work together to divide the tasks on the list. This is also really important – it may just be that for whatever reason, comparing high chair models is the type of work that bores him, and that he dreads. You may be surprised to find out that he’d jump at the chance to call daycares instead (or some other task that you dislike). And finally, once you’ve divided the tasks, agree together that you’ll get them done properly and in a timely fashion, but that you’ll also both back off on checking the other person’s work.

    4. Here goes…DH and I also divide labor evenly, but when it came to some baby stuff, there were things that I cared greatly about that he might have been able to do, but it would not have worked. If you are doing research and know all of the resources to find the “right” carseat, pump, etc. will you be okay with whatever high chair he chooses? Or will you question him on why that is the right one and which reviews he looked at and did he think about this or that aspect?

       He might think that he is not equipped to pick out a high chair because he doesn’t know what is important to you and worries that he might do it “wrong.” I may be reading too much into your post, but my advice is not to worry about who shops for these supplies. It isn’t an indicator of how involved someone will be as a parent. But you might want to talk this out with him anyway.

       1. +1

       2. This exactly. I’d pick a car seat by going on to babies r us, seeing what the best seller is, and choosing that one. You’ve done a ton of unnecessary research, and he prob knows that he isn’t going to meet your standard.

          1. Thanks– that’s actually the same amount of research I’ve done, just going to the store, seeing which one is most affordable but also has the best reviews, and choosing that one. It just adds up when you’re the only one doing it for every single item. I don’t think I’ve done any unnecessary research, only what’s required to make these decisions. He doesn’t really know how much time I’ve spent, since he hasn’t been involved at all, so there’s little chance he’s worried about meeting my standard, since a) it’s not that high and b) he doesn’t know what it is.

             1. I would disagree that researching baby products is “unnecessary.” The quality, safety, and effectiveness of products varies greatly so if keeping your child safe or having a product that works well is important to you, research is not unnecessary (although some people do overdo it). I am a type A personality and a control freak, whereas my husband is not, so I also ended up doing all of the stuff you described. I could have delegated stuff to him, but I knew that I wanted things done a certain way or the best value products available and that he didn’t particularly care one way or another. As one commenter mentioned, I knew if I asked him to do something, he was going to have no idea where to research daycares/high chairs/etc. and I would probably nit pick his choices, so I just did it. He participates (went to the daycare interviews, put together baby furniture, etc.), but I did most of the work. I am a planner though and really enjoy stuff like this – I would probably feel differently if, like you, it wasn’t enjoyable.

                If you trust that you will be fine with whatever your husband chooses, though (even if it isn’t what you would have chosen), just tell him that you don’t know anymore than he does, hand him a list, and tell him you will trust whatever he decides (or explicitly tell him to pick the one with the best reviews, the best seller, etc.). You do not get to comment on his choice, though.

       3. This. Are the default planner in your house? I am the person who researches everything so it often falls to me to do legwork on major purchases. But, when I want to abdicate the role for a task or two, I have hand it off without micromanaging and be cool with whatever choice is made. A couple of other words from experience. 1) As the pregnant spouse, you are 24/7 aware that a baby is coming and have to take into account another person for everything you eat and do. Your husband doesn’t. He will get there, don’t worry, but for now, he’s not which means that he likely doesn’t share that sense of urgency. 2) Resist the urge to keep score. Nothing good will come of it. When it comes to parenting effort, both of you will feel like you are giving 100%. (This assumes that both of you are involved even if it isn’t always equal). Be kind to each other.

    5. you are overreacting. it’s picking out a high chair, not refusing to do daycare pick up. I’d pick my battles and let this one go. It sounds like you enjoy (or at least feel it is necessary) doing considerable research into your purchases. he might just not care about a high chair. relatedly, you don’t need a high chair for quite a while…

       1. Thanks, he is actually the one who asked if we had registered for a high chair. I said no, we probably don’t need one for six months or so. He said a friend had asked for our registry information, and I reminded him of the registry website (which he did not know since he’s done nothing with it) and suggested that he could add a high chair since he mentioned one. Then, downhill from there.

    6. No first-hand knowledge, but is it possible that he sees how much research you’re doing for other baby items and is afraid of either needing to devote that much time OR that no matter which item he picks will be deemed “wrong” by you? (Whether that’s a rational thought or not.)

       Could this be first-child jitters? It’s hitting him just HOW much your lives are going to change, and he’s panicking about the future lack of time — and he’s acting out like this now because he’s nervous / scared / apprehensive while still being excited for the baby?

    7. I think it’s worth talking out these issues but I do think you’re overreacting a tad. He may not feel equipped to buy a high chair because he knows you do extensive research about everything you add to the registry and doesn’t feel he can choose one that will satisfy you (I’m not judging you – I am exactly the same way but for this reason there is a lot of stuff I can’t delegate to my husband). I don’t’ really see any indication from this that he won’t be a hands-on dad. If you want him to just pick one out without doing extensive research, just tell him!

    8. The registry stuff is kind of tough because it’s such a weird thing depending on whether you’re having a shower, if he’s included in that, etc. Can already be a gender divide situation there – I’m more invested in making sure we have some $15-20 items on our registry because I know my elderly family friend is coming etc. Additionally, for me personally, I could not care less about a high chair. For me, the uber-important things are a car seat and making sure baby has somewhere to sleep when it comes home (and preferably something to sleep in). Everything else is gravy, and frankly sometimes I have to pretend to have an interest in one RNP over another (they all look the same to me, and not in a good way).

       Now daycare, that seems important – but then again after rushing around and trying to get on a few waitlists at the beginning bc that’s what everyone told us WEHADTODOASAP, then being looked at as though we were crazypants for showing up so early, we’ve backed off. We’re on a few lists, but need to see more, but now I’m feeling much more laissez-faire about the whole thing.

       All this is to say, I don’t think you can judge how it will be by the division of labor now. Do we judge marriages by how involved a spouse is in the planning of a wedding? I hope not. The marriage is more important than the wedding, as is the day you bring the baby home and every day after that. Sounds like you’ve got a good thing going, so I’d be optimistic.

    9. What an exciting time for you and your husband! I will tell you from experience that there is nothing like a new baby to throw a loving, healthy, egalitarian marriage into a tizzy. We are now 9 years away from the situation you are describing (and 3 younger kids have joined the original), but I remember it well. I agree with others that it’s worth talking about it with your husband. I also will tell you that the process of figuring out how you will divide up these new tasks is not intuitive. It is challenging. You will have to be honest with each other, and you will have to adjust as you go. You will have to admit that you have prejudices.

       I found maternity leave to be the worst of it because it was so inherently non-egalitarian. I wanted my husband to come home and help with the baby. I was exhausted from nursing and sleep deprivation, and I was bored. He wanted to come home and relax after a day of work. We had to work out how we shared the labor. Once I went back to work it became obvious that it needed to be better shared, but how to do that still took lots of trial and error.

       I will say one thing about the specific example with the high chair. Putting the chair on the registry could validly be considered by some to be “creating work”. It is not the same as “meeting your child’s needs”. It is not urgent (you don’t need one for about 4-6 months post baby arrival) and it’s not even the same as buying one, it’s just adding it to a list. I don’t want to argue with you about whether it was a good idea (I probably would agree with you that it’s worth doing). I’d just suggest that as you think about dividing up the new work, you will need to discuss with each other whether the tasks you think are crucial really are. For example, one of you may think “organize photos online and order prints/books” is an important new task and should be on the list of labor to share with an expectation that it be completed monthly. The other person may think that’s a waste of time and doesn’t NEED to be done (one could say: wait 3 years and do it when you are well rested). You will have to work those things out together.

       So sit down together. Make a list of what needs to be done before the baby arrives: install car seat; assemble co sleeper; wash all new clothing; unpack hand me downs; determine paperwork requirements for employer providing health insurance; etc. Then divide up the tasks. This exercise never ends, but it’s a process worth establishing together. Good luck! It’s a great adventure.

       1. This. Exactly this. Pick your battles. And start doing each others laundry now (just splitting loads), or you will have conniption fits about who does the babies.

          1. Not necessarily – my husband and I each still do our own laundry, after trying every few years to combine and then having one of us ruin something expensive of the others and going back to doing our own. We just alternate who does kid laundry and/or towels, or whoever isn’t cooking dinner or mowing the law or fighting with homework with the 8 year old deals with the laundry that night – it works out.

             Although part of it working out is that 90% of the time the laundry goes directly from the dryer to basket to kid’s bodies to laundry hamper, rarely actually making it into the dresser – but since we’ve both acknowledged that while we don’t like it, it is something we can live with, that doesn’t cause too many arguments.

       2. +1 Really well said.

    10. Practical mini-step: if you agree with the writer’s approach (as I generally do), sign both of you up for emails and access to Lucie’s List. He can consult that as a resource when asked to choose baby products. And down the road, he will also get developmentally appropriate emails about things like starting the baby on solids or potty-training.

        1. This is great advice, thank you– I signed us both up for Lucie’s List when we found out we were expecting, and he promptly unsubscribed because “you’ll take care of this stuff anyway, won’t you?” That’s part of what contributes to my concern. But it seemed like a good idea :)

           1. We had a great discussion on this over at CorporetteMoms a while ago — http://corporettemoms.com/share-parenting-duties-spouse/ — there’s a lot of things to think about and yes, a lot of it does fall to women to be the “default parent.”

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m-blazoned/the-default-parent_b_6031128.html

              Congratulations on your pregnancy!

    11. I think you are overreacting, but I totally totally get where you’re coming from. Being pregnant with your first child is such a nerve-wracking experience because you have no idea how your life is going to change. I am the planner in my marriage, and I picked out and registered for 100% of the items on the registry. I also did all the daycare research and have made every single decision on childcare. Despite that, now that the baby is here (and is a toddler at this point!) my husband is a very capable and involved parent. Neither my husband nor I had any experience with babies before our daughter was born, and he was terrified and clueless. Here are some things that helped us have a fairly egalitarian parenting experience:

        1. When I was EBF-ing, he did every single diaper change when he was off work. We would say that I handed input, he handled output.
        2. We started feeding our daughter some formula around the time she was 6 weeks old. At first it was one bottle a day. This let him be involved in feeding her and took some of the pressure off me. It also let me leave the house alone and let the two of them hang out/have him be 100% in charge of taking care of her. I did that early and often, and since I left for a three day trip when she was about 6 months old, he’s been a very confident parent because he’s HAD to learn to be.
        3. I keep my trap shut if he’s doing something a way different from how I would do it.
        4. I don’t make extra work for myself and then resent him for not doing as much. You don’t have to research everything to death.

        You will totally figure this out, and his refusal to pick a high chair is not indicative of what kind of parent he’s going to be. Have you asked him if there’s anything he wants to pick? A video baby monitor or something like that? Something that in some way has some relationship to something he’s had to buy before?

        1. This is great advice. I picked out 99% of our registry, but with the baby monitor, I narrowed it down to 3 acceptable choices and emailed them to my husband since he used to install security cameras/fiber optic cables at a past job and was more qualified to decide which would be best.

17. Does anyone wear M Gemi shoes? Does the quality (specifically in terms of longevity and looking very nice after many wears) match the price point?

Comments are closed.