Suit of the Week: Brooks Brothers Sale Alert!

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brooks-brothers-suiting-saleFor busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. Ooh: there's a huge Brooks Brothers sale going on right now, ladies — I'm seeing dressing marked to $150ish down from $800, blazers from $500 to $150, and more. (To be honest I'm not even sure this is the biggest sale they'll have this season — but the prices are already pretty great on some items). For today's suit of the week, let's look at this pretty windowpane suit, significantly marked down with lucky sizes left in the blazer, pants, and skirt. Nice! The jacket (Stellita Fit Wool Small Windowpane Stretch Jacket) is $238 (down from $398), and the skirt is $100 (was $168). The matching pants are down to $136 (from $228). Some other picks from the big sale. Obviously, some of the styling here was atrocious (or at least seemed to be a mismatch for the usual BB buyer) — imagine them without strappy sandals, dirty hair, and so forth. brooks-brothers-sale-2016

Above: one / two / three / four

(L-all)

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

361 Comments

  1. Share a resolution you kept this year or goal that you met that you are proud of! How did you meet it? Share your tips for success!

    1. Learn to do my eye makeup like Adele!

      Past successes have included eat more oysters and buy fancier chocolate.

    2. This will be fun to see some of our goals realized.

      I dramatically improved my nutrition and time management by improving my meal planning. I used the Pepperplate app thanks to a recommendation on here, I think it was. I hope to continue it next year with added attention to grocery budgeting better.

    3. I made photo books for each year of my daughters’ lives. I started it when they turned one, and I meant to do it every year, but I’m lazy. So I resolved to get them all done this year (until they turn another year older, anyway). It was…a lot. My oldest is now 7. I did it by breaking the project into tasks, and doing one task a week. Like, culling photos for one year, then arranging them in the book, then doing any writing necessary, etc. It took months, but no one task ever took me very long, except deciding the photos.

      1. Wow thats amazing!!! I started the year with a goal to spend 15 minutes organizing photos to get on top of it but fell off the bandwagon. I need to get back on. I will try creating a list of small tasks to work through. Good job!

    4. Two that I am pretty proud of:

      1) I didn’t watch any TV/movie without another person watching along with me.

      So this meant I went the whole year without watching any movies on plane flights, no TV on sick days, and no TV on when cooking. I used to be a pretty big TV in the background person when doing other tasks so this was a huge thing to cut out. I wanted to cut this out because there were a lot of times that I was tired and should have been just sleeping but was watching TV. Most people would probably just want to cut back then at TV at night, but I realized I do better just going cold turkey with things or if you are a Gretchen Rubin person I do better abstaining then moderating.

      2) Ever since we moved, I had not gotten back into a routine of volunteering. I wanted to start volunteering more in my community so I made a goal of it. Basically it just took emailing an organization and saying “hey this is how much time I have..how can I best help you?” I really threw myself into it this year, and although it feels like a lot sometimes, I am really happy that I did it. It has helped me find such a lovely community and I like being surrounded by people who are also prioritizing their time to give back to the world.

        1. +1. I worry about this myself, as a background tv watcher. OP, would love to hear about how you liked it. Are you going to carry this over into 2017?

          1. Loved it! I feel like I found so much extra time and when I choose to watch TV with my husband or a friend I am really purposeful in choosing what I watch. My husband isn’t a big TV watcher either so that helps. Podcasts / audio booksfill part of the void for when I am cooking or doing chores but in general it means I have gotten more reading done and gotten more sleep!

            I plan on doing it next year too!

      1. On the flip side, I made it a goal to spend more time doing things that just let me chill and relax. TV. Movies. Reading. After 3 years in law school, being able to veg on the couch watching West Wing for an entire afternoon on a weekend is great self care.

      2. This is a very interesting goal. Unfortunately it wouldn’t work for me because I am in a house full of boys (husband & 3 sons aged 11 to 16) and this would mean I wouldn’t get to watch some of my favourite girly shows, but I could definitely see how less tv would really be beneficial to me. I’m going to think about this and maybe cut down on the number of shows I watch.

        1. I hear you! I found friends to watch the new Gilmore Girls episodes with!

          Other TV rules people have told me about this year included – maybe one of those would work for you?
          -only watching TV alone while taking a bath
          -only watching TV while exercising
          -only watching TV while not in their house (so hotels and planes and things were okay)
          -only watching TV on the weekends
          -only watching TV while doing their stretches and yoga moves

    5. A resolution I started a few years back and have consistently kept up is to eat better bread (I LOVE bread). I pass by the regular, boring bread and buy an expensive multigrain or oatnut. I also pick up croissants, sourdough, and ciabatta when they strike my fancy.

    6. Last year I vowed to never go to work with my hair wet again, and I did it! Also, I did cut back on low-quality clothing shopping a little, though not as much as I could have.

    7. Paid off all of my and SO’s student loans in March. We prioritized this over saving for a down payment or other short-term savings (still have a healthy emergency fund) and spent our bonuses and some equity on paying these down. It helped that I was in biglaw for two of those three years of paying and didn’t start out with the mega-law school loans that others have. Now we’re paying for daycare and saving for a house, which are easier to do without worrying about student loans on top of that.

      I remember posting here either last year or the year before that another resolution was to cut cable. We’ve done that too and I don’t miss it at all.

      1. Congratulations! That’s fantastic!

        One of my 2017 resolutions is to make more significant progress on paying down my student loans. One way I’m working on that is to resolve to stick within $100 of my budget (instead of giving myself wiggle room when I get bigger paychecks) that I plan out at the beginning of the month and then putting any income above those budgeted amounts towards my loans. I earn a lot of overtime pay, so my checks can vary widely so this should help me throw extra at my loans regardless of my random paychecks.

    8. I got incredibly serious about paying off my student loans. I paid close to $50K this year (I’m not in BigLaw) and will hopefully pay them off by the end of next year.

    9. I surpassed my reading challenge (15 books) and realize I can do a lot better than that next year.

    10. I changed jobs after a couple of miserable years at the company I thought I’d work for forever.

    11. I started wearing jewelry to work every day (aside from my wedding rings and watch). I accomplished this by getting all of my necklaces hung up on corkboards so that I could see what I have, laying out my clothes and jewelry the night before, and moving a tiny jewelry box with my most commonly worn earrings into the bathroom so that I could throw those on easily as I was getting ready.

      I’m close to finishing one of my other resolutions, which was to read 115 books this year. I’m close to on track to finish that by the end of the year. This goal is similar to ones I’ve made in other years and I accomplish this by reading on my subway commute, read most nights before bed, and read in chunks on the weekends.

      I had a couple of weight/fitness related resolutions that I wasn’t able to keep. I did manage to lose about 40 pounds this year though, so I’m very proud of that.

      One other trick that helps me keep resolutions is to get a running start in December. I test drive a couple of things and see if it might be reasonable for me and then it is easier to stick to starting January 1st. Next year one of my resolutions is to wear lipstick and/or mascara to work and I’ve been playing around with it for the past few weeks. Similarly, I plan to wear a jacket instead of a cardigan at least 1 day per week and have put that into motion already as well. I was considering making a resolution to get dressed in actual casual clothes instead of just my sweats on the weekends but after test driving this, I realized I just don’t care enough about that so I’m letting that one go.

      1. I love your first goal!! I wear the same jewelry every day (watch, wedding rings, earrings) but I have a ton of jewelry (costume and fancy) that I never wear. This is going to be my resolution for 2016!!

    12. I wanted to be able to squat my body weight, and I can now squat 35 lb over my bodyweight! :-D

      I also wanted to make more of an effort to plan fun date nights with my SO. We’ve gone to see a couple of operas, some DJs we like, and try new restaurants outside our city. It’s been really good for our relationship.

    13. I don’t set goals, but I am proud of my running this year. I took up running in 2015 and ran a road half and a trail half.

      In 2016, I completed four trail halfs (some plus a few extra miles, was 4th in my AG in two of them) with over 7k elevation gain total, two trail 10ks with over 5k elevation gain total, a trail 15k (2nd in my AG), a trail 25k+ with over 5k elevation gain (finished 70/368 over all), a 25 miler with over 7k elevation gain (finished 69/235 over all, 4th in my AG with IT band issues the last 7 miles), and only had to bag two races at the end of the season due to said IT band issues.

      I LOVE trail running and can’t wait for the 2017 season!

    14. Last year on NYE I went to bed totally overwhelmed with feelings of self-loathing and feeling physically and mentally horrible about how I’d been treating myself. I promised myself — like oath to thy self, suuuuper serious vow– to be damn sure I’d be going to bed at the end of this year just feeling proud of myself and in a healthy body I take care of and love. I wouldn’t say I’m an expert or all done or all cleared or whatever, but I’ve made habits of therapy and meditating and picked up a few hobbies which have helped me correct a lot of what was going on before. Thanks for the opp to reflect on this… pretty amazing stuff! I am proud of the work I’ve put into being better to myself and will be able to start the year as a healthy happy human. Phew!

    15. I deadlifted more than my weight thisyear! And then I sprained my ankle and I’m working my way back up, but that was an incredibly proud moment for me. 2017 I want to squat my weight.

    16. Graduated law school. At this time last year, that was not a thing that was certain to happen, and through sheer force of will and excessive amounts of misery, plus a very understanding school, I made it happen. I had a central line in my chest and spent the first two months of the new year vomiting 6-8 times a day due to meds and didn’t get the line out until after graduation, but I made it. It’s one of my proudest accomplishments.

  2. I said I’d kick off a thread for those of us from a blue collar / rural background and what it was like to assimilate to a white collar work life.

    I’m from a small town and was the first in my family to graduate from college. I went to a small liberal arts college where many of my friends were from wealthy urban families so a lot of my assimilation and learning were in college.

    Here are things I knew nothing about –
    Ski vacations, or skiing in general
    Spring break travel
    Travel to Europe
    Resorts
    Nice restaurants
    Big concerts
    Sports like lacrosse
    A gap year
    A semester abroad
    Not being in debt
    The right kind of work clothes to wear
    Working for a non profit

    Things I find insufferable
    Bragging about not watching TV
    Bragging that you’ve never been to McDonalds
    Hipsters adopting blue collar dress or food for style (i.e. living in Brooklyn drinking PBR)

    1. Thanks for sharing. I grew up in a very large, cosmopolitan city and I didn’t know anything about most of these things either. Urban poverty, I guess.

    2. I grew up in a small farming midwest town. Guess what? I have never had a burger from McDonalds and grew up without a TV! So you have to be careful with your assumptions.

    3. I can identify with most of these things except not being in debt. My parents are crazy frugal and while I know they have had debt at different times related to the family business, I also know they built our house with cash.

      I generally laugh when someone refers to their 20k-50k town as a “small town”. My hometown was around 750 people.

      1. The other thing I grew up with was 100% organic produce. Our garden was huge and we canned or froze pretty much all of it. I took for granted the delicious tomatoes, green beans and sweet corn from my childhood.

        1. My grandparents were farmers and my grandmother had a huge garden. But we also burned our trash, so who knows?

          1. Ah yes, I nearly forgot about the burn barrel. That’s a classy yard ornament right there.

          2. When I first moved to a small apartment in the city I couldn’t figure out what to do with stuff I wanted to get rid of that was too big for the trash cans. I didn’t have a backyard to throw it into. Nor a pickup truck to take it to the dump.

          3. Oh, and garages. WTF is a garage? You just put stuff on the porches and then it spills over into the yard. If it’s nice, you put a tarp over it.

            Also: indoor-only pets.

          4. Also: not having a freezer on the back porch for stuff you bought on mega-sale / put up / hunted.

          5. The best family photo I have shows the porch freezer in the background, with a bag of Purina Dog Chow on top of it!

          6. My grandparents lived on main street of our town, and every fall there was a deer strung up in the side yard.

      2. I guess I would describe my family as more “white trash” – not good with money, poorly managing what they did have, and spending beyond their means through debt.

        I had full financial aid for college but it wasn’t all free so I graduated with a lot of student loan debt and I also accumulated credit card debt my last year of college and first year out in the world.

    4. …and I knew (and still don’t know) nothing about skiing, lacrosse, gap years, Spring Break travel (apart from Florida), resorts, or people who bragged they didn’t watch TV or eat McDonalds.

      I did manage to learn about European travel, semesters abroad, and big concerts while in college.

      1. Yep. I grew up in the suburbs of NYC with plenty of wealthy kids, and went to a fancy private undergrad school, and I could check off a number of these things. I have never skied, I didn’t travel for spring break until I was in law school, we never went to resorts. My parents took us to restaurants, but as a family of 5 that was pricey, so it was infrequent. Lacrosse was big where I’m from, but I don’t know anything about it. My mom didn’t work in a professional office so I had no idea what I was supposed to wear to work. For my first internship, my mom took me shopping and took me to old lady stores – I wore a green suit (no joke). Also, my parents (who were solidly middle class) never talked to me about money so I had no idea about how to create a budget or do really basic things for myself as an adult. I think I’ve gone to 3 or 4 concerts in my life.

        I did study abroad in Europe, and that was my first time there.

        1. You remind me that I bought a light pink suit with a flared skirt at JCPenney to wear to my first office job. I burn pink with shame thinking about it! It was more of a going to church suit than a work suit but I had no idea.

      2. Yeah, I grew up white collar in a small town and there were lots of thing she I had to learn about as an adult after moving to the big city.

        I’d add different types of ethnic cuisine to the list. I never had any idea how much I loved Greek and Vietnamese food until I was in my Mid 30s

    5. Here’s what I don’t get about this post.

      I grew up in suburbia without many of those things also, but we had a library and PBS and I read my way through the first 18 years of my life to some of the most exotic places and through extraordinary experiences that there ever was.

      1. OP here. I was a bookworm. I was obsessed with F Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. I read A Moveable Feast like it was the bible. I couldn’t wait to get out of my redneck town and live in a city. But reading about things vs hanging out at lunch with work friends who are all comparing their favorite places to ski are two different things.

        1. Now, I had friends who skied also, but I always attributed that to the fact that skiing was their thing. Everyone has a weird hobby, right? And I knew people whose families travelled extensively and had nice cars…and I also knew that they were in debt.

          To quote Erma Bombeck…I don’t participate in sports where there is an ambulance waiting at the bottom of the hill.

          I couldn’t wait to get out of Suburbia and see the rest of the world. When I was about 10 I read a story about the Taj Mahal and I must have been the only one who knew where “Agra” was.

      2. It sounds like you had parents who encouraged and probably prioritized education, and access to a library/television. Which is wonderful, but also not true for everyone.

        1. True, but parents who encourage reading is a trait that not confined to a certain demographic. And most locations do have access to either a B&M library or one that provides a bookmobile service.

      3. My parents were very poor/rural (but great readers). I was raised in a poor/immigrant-rich suburb in the NE US. I read a ton, but haven’t travelled. I realize this when I have to say things that I’ve only read about and mispronounce things b/c I’ve never heard the word said before (like getting the accent wrong on Phillipa, Pippa Middleton’s name, when I said it and being corrected by someone who just could not fathom not knowing how to pronounce that).

        OTOH, I can pronounce Polish names that everyone gives up on without half trying.

          1. Somewhat off-topic, but my husband has watched all of the Harry Potter movies with me (but read none of the books). When he includes a reference to non-magical people in written conversation, he calls them Moguls.

          2. Saks. I pronounced it Sahhhks (with an ah sound) instead of Sacks. I literally did not know what Abercrombie was until college. Never mind Nordstrom, Tiffany etc.

        1. You’ve just highlighted one of my pet peeves – people that condescendingly correct pronunciation.

        2. fwiw, I was raised in an upper middle class, borderline upperclass home and I know tons and tons of words I can’t pronounce. I think it’s a common problem for anyone who reads a lot, regardless of your socioeconomic status.

          1. I generally agree, but it’s like knowing how to say “Gstaad.” There are people who do and they know who they are and then there’s the rest of us who wonder where the vowels are.

          2. I think it’s more like the only exposure you have to this is from reading about it, so you integrate it, but not as fully who have exposure to things from multiple sources (like your friends talk about skiing in Gstaad, you’ve been there, you’re parents were there, etc.).

            I feel like Eliza Doolittle sometimes. I pass, but sometimes I spectacularly fail and out myself as not really a part of the world I bump into now.

            “Coming out party” is also confusing.

          3. This is definitely an issue I’ve discovered I have. I read a ton and there are a ton of words that I’ve never heard spoken out loud before. My own pronunciation gets ingrained in my head and then I feel awkward when I say it out loud and realize I’m not pronouncing it correctly.

        1. Most people do. It’s the one thing most people have access to. Even the poorest US school has a library, so by K every kid can borrow a book.

          1. Most towns do have a library. It depends on how far out of town you live and whether your parents are supportive of your reading habits. After a couple of overdue book fines my mom refused to take me to the library any more. (And they were overdue because our lives were disorganized and chaotic and my mom worked two jobs)

            I was fortunate enough to have a high school teacher who took an interest in me and lent me books from her collection or pointed me toward what I should read from the library. I grew up pre-internet and one does not just know what to read without guidance.

            And I love my mom, but every time I curled up with a book she called me lazy.

          2. many, many schools no longer have libraries and while some may still have a collection, they do not have librarians or allow students to take books home

          3. PEN, that makes me so sad. The public library and the school library were some of my favorite places as a kid. I remember getting my own library card as soon as I could write my name. That library let me keep renewing that card until they upgraded the entire system when I was in college so I had my little kid handwriting on my card for years.

          4. Many schools don’t have libraries, unfortunately (and not just rural schools, I know in Chicago many CPS schools are having their libraries cut). And many people in rural areas may have a library their taxes go towards, but they’re far away.

          5. When you’re too young to drive, and the nearest library is 8 miles away (and there is no public transportation) and only open when your parents are working, not so much. Fortunately, my parents were fine with letting me take my bike into town.

    6. I grew up in a pretty well-off suburban Midwest family and didn’t do any of these things either, except travel to Europe and spring break travel. My parents loooved to travel, but they were penny-pinchers, so we always stayed in Super 8 motel-type places and a fancy dinner was at Red Lobster.

      1. And we had McDonalds probably once a week because it was cheap and my parents liked it. They even went to McDonalds in Europe!

        1. “You know what they call a Quarter Pounder in Amsterdam? A Royale With Cheese! You know why?”

          “Be… because of the metric system?”

    7. I would hardly say that things like lacrosse and ski trips and European vacations are “normal” in white collar life. In a very, small corner of it, sure. But those aren’t middle-class things and I’d venture to guess that most white collar workers are middle-class.

      1. Also, PBR *tastes good* to me, so why would I buy a $6 beer I don’t like as much when I can get a $2 tallboy of PBR?

        1. Right? I also still drink 40’s on occasion.

          And I’m in California and in no way hipster.

      2. Yeah, I scored pretty high on that PBS “do you live in a bubble?” quiz, and in my experience, these things on the original list apply to people who grew up wealthier than I did (e.g., children of law firm partners).

    8. Adding to the list of things I found foreign

      Unpaid internships
      Assumption that kids ‘need’ or ‘deserve’ their own bedroom
      Name brand anything
      Malls
      Air travel

      1. Unpaid internships. Yes. And grad school. It wasn’t until I was older that I understood that you could get paid to go to grad school.

      2. My husband buys Advil. That’s how I know he grew up with money. I would never buy a brand name thing ever if there is a generic (the one exception is sodas — there I can taste a difference) or a store brand.

        1. I’m not saying this to be snobby or to somehow imply my superiority, but it would never occur to me NOT to buy name brand. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a generic…anything.

          1. Wow – I hope you realize that for many things you are paying more for…. packaging.

            Why not fix this?

        2. That’s a pretty low bar for “grew up with money.” I would say it’s more evidence that he “grew up not impoverished.” I was solidly lower-middle class (one parent in a blue collar profession, the other a SAHM) and we bought regular Tylenol.

          1. I think it’s that he has no impulse to save a dollar. Or even to try once to see if it makes a difference.

          2. I have had this same reaction when people buy name-brand groceries and I think “not impoverished” is probably appropriate. Meaning, I slowly started to realize I grew up impoverished as I got older and became more exposed to the habits of others. FWIW I still buy generic any chance I get, I just can’t stop it now.

        3. I grew up with generic advil and always wondered why it didn’t affect me like my mom expected it to.

          The first firm I worked at had real Advil and voila! Ibuprofen actually took away some of my pain. So now I buy only the real stuff.

          I blame the candy shell on the Advil tablets. It’s my placebo.

        4. I remember reading about a study where well-off people actually tended to buy the generic/store brand of Tylenol, Advil, etc. because of greater knowledge that the active ingredients are exactly the same in both

          1. My understanding is that, in general, well-off people are more likely to buy a generic because they can afford to write off the money if it’s poor quality.

          2. Yeah, this is what I would think about generics specifically with regard to drugs. Buying generic because you know that Advil = Motrin = ibuprofen is not the same as buying store brand canned pineapple instead of Dole.

          3. This is absolutely true (I used to study these behaviors for a living). It’s the well-off who buy the generic ibuprofen, etc. because they know the ingredients are the same and they don’t feel the need to “impress themselves.” BTW, my spouse grew up in a wealthy family and they absolutely clip coupons, look for deals, buy things on sale, don’t buy a brand name unless there is a real difference. That’s part of why they are wealthy – because they care about the deal.

      3. Ha, air travel. I never flew much until I was an adult. Waaay too $$ for my family to do aside from special occasions. As an adult I’ve been to places like Vail where people apparently take their entire family of 5 and I’m just like, omg, how much did those tickets cost?!?!

        1. I dated a guy who had never been on a road trip longer than 4 hours (time to the nearest large international airport) because his family 1) lived in the same town as he did, so it was easy to visit and 2) had the money to fly places for vacation.

          My family drove the 10-12 hour car rides to visit grandparents (or longer to visit other relatives) for vacation, because 1) too expensive to fly 6 people anywhere and 2) REALLY expensive to fly 6 people to small regional airports where the family was actually located and 3) Dad was big on frugality.

    9. I grew up in a major city (one of the ten cities shown on a national weather map) in a working class neighborhood and public schools. I also had never heard of lacrosse or “ski week” until I went to college.

      1. Lacrosse is partly a regional thing, I think. We had it in my rural not fancy middle and high school in Pennsylvania. It and field hockey were only played by girls, though there was an occasional boy who would play on a team in the conference. Boys had to wear a kilt, too, and for some reason we all thought it was hot.

        1. I grew up in a not-great part of NJ and lacrosse was a spring sport for boys who played soccer in the fall. Only later (mid 1990s?) did girls also start playing.

          In the SE US where I live now, it is something that the wealthy private schools do, but not public schools. It is a rich kid thing here (largely (?) driven by transplants from the NE).

    10. How to write a resume/cover letter. My dad proofread my resume for my first professional job out of college and it was FOUR PAGES LONG. He thought it was great. I really wish I had saved it because I can’t imagine what I used to fill four pages back then. Everyone I babysat for? Luckily my law school career services taught me how to write a proper resume. All of my prior jobs had been application types, not resume types.

      Tipping as addressed this AM. I tipped awesome in restaurants. I also did not know to tip taxi drivers, people that help with your bags, get a door, that type of stuff. We didn’t go to those kinds of hotels growing up.

      Eating in a really fancy restaurant. I went to one with my college boyfriend, one of those rotating on top of a city building types. He noticed that I looked visible uncomfortable. I thought it was just obvious that I did not belong there.

      Wine. No one drank wine in my family. I had no idea reds were room temperature and whites were cold. My first waitressing job, I didn’t know the different wine names. I literally thought there was “red” and “white.” The first time someone tried to order Cab, I thought it was a brand. They had to show me the wine list so I could get the spelling down. I was 19 and told them I had never drank wine before but now had something new to learn. I had to study the list but I still didn’t know how the different types were pronounced.

      Country clubs. I work with people that think I should just “join the club.” I don’t have the initiation fee lying around. If I did, I can think of a lot better ways to spend it. I don’t begrudge them for being in the club but I would do different things with that money personally, at least at this point in my life.

      I didn’t grow up golfing.

      I didn’t own skis but got some freshmen year of college. That was a BIG deal.

      1. Yes to all of this. Also..

        AP Classes. I had no idea what these were or how my freshman roommate had college credit already.

        Networking. I had the same classmates from preschool to 12th grade. In college I figured out how to make friends in my dorm and in my classes, but neither of those really carried over into adult working world networking.

        Career Pathing/ Mentoring. I sort of floundered around in my chosen profession for a few years. Corporate world isn’t necessarily a linear career progression, and I didn’t understand what a mentor was for, let alone what questions to ask to get the most out of them.

        Taking Initiative. Obviously as one of the few people from my town to even attend college, I had been taking initiatve. This drive is different than showing initiative at work. I had previously worked at retail jobs where your boss is 4 years older than you and his word is king. (See the part above re: unpaid internships.)

    11. I didn’t understand why people got drinks first at restaurants when I started training at Denny’s because we never went out to eat somewhere they bring you a drink before…

      Parents who don’t always talk about money issues.

    12. Coming from the Midwest to SF Bay Area, it was chop sticks and Asian food.

      I had to teach myself how to use chopsticks at the age of 22 after never using them in my life. I have since learned the differences between various Asian cuisines including the fact that there is more than one type of Chinese food and that Japanese food isn’t only teriyaki and “raw fish”.

      I am forever grateful to my friends who helped me learn and enjoy new cuisines! They never made fun of my lack of knowledge, inability to use chopsticks, and recommended dishes that they honestly thought I would like. They never made me feel uncomfortable not eating the tripe.

      1. I just use a fork. I hate to think of what my chopstick skills look like to a person who has them.

      2. DH also grew up in an area basically without any Asian-Americans and thought Chinese food was Panda Express type food. Shudder. He had never heard of dim sum, let alone tried it. I took him to a regional Chinese restaurant very early in our relationship because I felt like Chinese (which he thought meant Panda-type food) and ordered salt and pepper shrimp (which sounded normal to him in theory) and they of course came out as whole shrimp, he was totally blindsided. Meanwhile I’m crunching through the shells like… what?

        I also had to teach him to use chopsticks properly.

        1. OMG Salt & Pepper Shrimp! Where the pepper means jalapeño and NOT black! One of my all-time faves. I even learned how to make it at home. Mmmmm.

      3. My parents were well off, but I grew up in the a part of the Midwest where there were no Asian people and I never learned how to use chopsticks. I went to a college that had a huge Asian population and was immediately made fun of for it, to the point that I was terrified to eat in Asian restaurants because I was so embarrassed. To this day, I don’t know the official proper technique, although I’m pretty effective and getting food into my mouth using them.

        1. My ex made fun of me for not being able to use them. Out of spite, I refused to learn how and now I’ve decided it’s just not a thing I care about. I live on pho. But I use a fork. Whatever.

    13. I don’t understand people who brag about not eating McDs. I have eaten in many fine restaurants, including places that have 3 Michelin stars, and there are very few things tastier than a McD bacon, egg and cheese biscuit.

        1. mmmmm Waffle House. If you haven’t seen it, google the Anthony Bourdain Tries Waffle House video.

      1. BACON EGG AND CHEESE BISCUIT!!!

        Did you see they are putting them on the Breakfast All Day menu, finally?

        1. Ahem. this is either the best or worst thing that’s happened recently. God, I love them. I had one for dinner last night.

    14. Do you mean that you didn’t even know these things existed/people lived like that or just that you hadn’t personally experienced it?

      I grew up never personally experiencing a lot of the things you listed but I did know that they existed either through books/tv/movies or other people in school when I was growing up. Except lacrosse. I had no concept of what lacrosse was until my senior year of high school when they tried to start a team.

      Perhaps I grew up in a weird situation. My parents divorced when I was in elementary school and my mother who I lived with most of the time had a lifestyle closer to poverty while my dad was the opposite. At my mom’s house I never got new toys or clothes because everything was hand me downs from my cousins, we didn’t buy books but I could check them out from the library, our hot water was turned off on more than one occasion so we had to shower at my grandparents house when possible, we never went out to eat, and never even considered going on vacation.

      At my dad’s house we went on at least 1 vacation a year, although most of those were camping. We did go to Disneyland twice before I graduated high school but my dad hadn’t been to Europe until he was over 40. My siblings and I all learned to ski because my dad had skied all his life. My dad paid for my gymnastics for years, which is a really expensive sport. I feel like I really lived 2 different childhoods.

      I think things like not knowing how to dress for a white collar job, not knowing whether to tip a concierge (or even to use one) like was being discussed this morning, or things like feeling comfortable in a fancy restaurant make total sense because they are a bit more nuanced than not being familiar with skiing, the fact that people go on spring break trips or go to Europe, or studying abroad. Not sure if that makes sense, but I see them as 2 separate issues.

      1. +1 to your last paragraph. The issue being discussed this morning was more along the lines of not being comfortable in a fancy restaurant etc. rather than not being familiar with ski trips.

        One memorable experience for me: I didn’t know you could request a black napkin in nice restaurants rather than using the standard white ones and getting lint all over your dark colored suit/dress.Then I saw a colleague do it, and I felt quite unsophisticated in comparison to her, because this was something I was truly clueless about.

        1. The really good restaurants will match you napkin to your dress without you having to ask ;)

          1. Yep! I’ve had restaurants do that as well, but it wasn’t something I learned about until I joined my firm and started doing business lunches.

        2. Hah, I had no idea you could do this! And I’ve absolutely had the lint problem. Thanks for the tip.

        3. Dude, I went to private school and I had no idea you could do this…

          On the other hand, one of the reasons I went to private school is because in my family education is the number one value. So all our schooling was paid for, but we never went to restaurants, we shop at TJ Maxx, we drive beat up cars and drive them until they die.

          We drove to Disney World and Washington D.C for our family trips from MA and the first time I ever flew was when I was in my teens. And my dad is so frugal that I literally deliberate for a good 10 minutes over toothpaste and hand soap purchases.

    15. Most of these ring true for me, too. I grew up very poor in a mix of urban/ suburban areas. I was also a bookworm so I knew certain things (like vacations) existed, but I genuinely assumed that nearly everyone in books must be filthy rich. My school district was very diverse in a lot of ways, including socioeconomic, so I slowly realized as I got older and started visiting friends who lived in McMansions that other families actually buy name brands, other kids have their own bedrooms, etc.

      +1 to “can’t pronounce things.” Two of the worst offenders, even very recently, were “patron” and “substantive.”

      And debt. All the debt. Still digging myself out. It’s a long road.

    16. A thing I find insufferable:

      People who have been to Europe multiple times but have never been to a non-coastal city in the US.

      1. As someone who grew up in the Midwest and has been to Europe multiple times I 100% agree with this. Travel is great, but you’re not well-traveled if you haven’t seen your own country – and not just the typical tourist destinations.

      2. The Midwest is a great place, but if people want to dismiss it as “flyover country” I’ll just shrug. Their loss.

        1. I’ve lived in coastal states all my life and hadn’t been to the Midwest until about 4 years ago. We’ve been road tripping and trying to see all 50 states. I’ve loved it. It’s a different experience than I’ve had internationally (which I also hadn’t really done until about 4 years ago) but also fun and worth doing. I had the best steak of my life in a biker bar in North Dakota and South Dakota was more beautiful than I could have imagined. It’s also one thing to know this country grows a lot of corn and soybeans…it’s another to see it. Wow!

        2. I am Indian and grew up without much money in the CA Central Valley. I worked 40+ hrs in high school to buy food and pay the rent. I have traveled some in the U.S. but would much rather spend money going to Asia, South America or Africa than the Midwest (I am mehhhhhhhhh about Europe). Though the culture in the Midwest is not the same as the coasts, it’s not exactly different and neither is the cuisine. Also because of the experiences I have has at a minority and experiences I have had in this country, I can’t ever just let my guard-down and relax while traveling in the Midwest. I would rather go to a foreign country and be asked “where are you from” and not have to explain that I am American when being asked that same question in the U.S.

          1. MT, FIA and Anon at 9:44, your instinct are correct.

            I am black, and every time new hires were announced at my old job in the Midwest, I hoped the new coworkers were of the type of background that would fit in well with the region because it is not welcoming to outsiders and coworkers regularly made culturally ignorant comments.

            Although they no longer officially exist, the mentality of “sundown towns” is still present throughout the USA, so a road tripin America is not that appealing.

        3. Honestly, as a non-white American, I’ll pass (for now), because you know what, I’m tired of having double ivy degrees and STILL getting asked if I can speak english or being told to go back to my country. Not that it doesn’t also happen in NYC, but it happens a lot less.

      3. I am one of those that has been to more countries than US states… but I’ve still been to over half of the states.

        I also feel pressure to travel abroad while my health permits, it’s much easier to visit the states when I’m older.

    17. Look…I’d just like to tell the OP that I come from a comfortable, middle-class background. But I somehow think that actually you and I have a lot more in common than not, if you were a bookworm. There is something about intellectual curiosity that transcends economic or social status.

    18. After my parents divorced at 11, my mom and her five children lived in poverty in Brooklyn NY. Prior to that our family was working class. I remember photocopying our food stamp/welfare benefit card to justify fee waiver requests for college applications. I was humiliated about having to bring it to school to photocopy it until I realized the football player next to me was doing the same thing. I had the enormous blessing to attend Barnard College for a fraction of the cost. It changed my life, and opened so many doors for me, and opened my mind to the possible. But I was absolutely a fish out of water and my family did not understand that college is not just an extension of high school. Later I went to law school, worked at a large firm and now I’m a government attorney for a small city. I recommend Ruby Payne’s A Framework for Understanding Poverty to the OP if you haven’t read it before. It made so much sense to me to reconcile my parents, my childhood and things that I still struggle with understanding as someone that is financially successful if not wealthy. FWIW I’m grateful we live in a country where this is possible and I’ll take the awkwardness any day to be able to be where I am now.

    19. City mouse here, but prior to college graduation, I worked hourly jobs. I did not clearly understanad the distinction between hourly and salaried, so when starting my first salaried job I assumed it was 9-5 until my supervisor told me otherwise.

      Also there is a lot to learn from reading. My dad used to buy the Sunday NYT, which was helpful when leaving the west coast to attend college on the east coast.

  3. FYI, I tried on the featured suit in person last winter. The pants fit INSANELY small. Those of you complaining that Theory runs too big for you… this is your suit.

  4. I have this suit (skirt and jacket, not the pants) and LOVE it. In fact, depending on my budget, I might even pick up duplicates during this sale.

  5. I’d love to really learn a basic conversational Spanish, preferably for free or at low cost. I do have DuoLingo but it’s not structured enough/is too simple for what I want to learn.

    Any suggestions? FWIW, I do speak another language almost fluently and I know that can take years to reach. So my expectations aren’t unrealistic – I’m just looking to learn enough so that I can hold simple conversations with native speakers.

    1. Have you tried YouTube? I’m trying to learn basic conversational Italian, and there are a few people on YouTube that seem like they might work for me.

      1. I’d be very interested in some specific recommendations for YouTube videos on Italian, please!

    2. You can also try searching for Podcasts. There are ones that are like a mini audio course for languages (I know a French one, but not sure about Spanish).

    3. Fluenz, but it’s expensive. Maybe you can look at your local school districts’ adult evening programs. Mine always have Spanish classes.

    4. Is there anyone you interact with on a regular basis, even the guy who sells you coffee at the bodega, who speaks Spanish? Try to cultivate a Spanish only relationship with that person once you have a few basics down. Being in the mindset of having to conduct the entirety of a conversation, even a very simple one, will help you get into the headspace of the language. If you can afford it I would also consider hiring a private tutor!

      1. Yeah this makes the biggest difference. Actually speaking to someone in Spanish to get something done.

        1. You can do this with other students of the language even if you can’t find a native speaker (which is definitely better but not totally necessary). Just grab a coffee and commit to having a 20 minute conversation with them in French (Spanish, whatever) once a week. Find a person you don’t know otherwise and cultivate your friendship entirely in the new language.

          My other less classy suggestion is to have a vacation fling in the language you’re studying.

    5. I think some libraries have licenses for Rosetta Stone or other programs. You might check to see if yours does.

    6. Thanks, guys! All great suggestions. I could only think of Rosetta Stone or private tutors, so good ideas here for me to look into.

      I sadly know very few people who speak Spanish so it’s up to me to search out the resources. There is an Esperenza center not too far away but it doesn’t look like they’re currently having any classes there (they had earlier in the fall).

      1. Otra idea – subtitulos! Not always perfect (depends a lot on the show, I have found), but helpful to read and hear what is being said to understand things like sentence construction and idioms – helps you understand to say “me llamo Jane” instead of “mi nombre es Jane.” Are you close enough to a city that has Spanish radio? There are certainly podcasts out there and probably even youtube channels.

      2. You might want to try the podcast News in Slow Spanish. It has a nice mix of news stories, conversations, and grammar. There is a Spanish version and a Latin American version.

        Subtitles are also fun. This could give you an excuse to watch “Grand Hotel”, which is like a Spanish Downton Abbey (plus murder, blackmail, affairs and illegitimate children). I watched it on Netflix.

    1. are those some of the Zac Posen for BB looks? I’d heard they did not sell well at ALL… maybe the ridiculous styling was offputting to everyone.

  6. Is the featured suit court-appropriate? It looks nice in the picture but the close up of the fabric gave me pause.

    1. Yes. It’s a conservative cut in a conservative color. The windowpane doesn’t bother me.

    2. Yes. The windowpane is subtle (I was initially worried until I saw it in person) and the fabric is beautiful.

  7. DH and I just moved to a new, small-ish Midwestern city, and we can’t decide what to do for New Year’s. Typically we would go to a show or a party with friends, but alas, we don’t have great friends yet. Any ideas for fun ways to spend the night? We aren’t big event people.

    1. If you like to cook – find an elaborate recipe and cook yourself a feast together!
      Another cooking idea – Challenge each other with a random ingredient chopped style
      See if a place near you is doing night sledding or go ice skating!
      Make yourself fondue
      Buy a lego set and spend all night building it
      Pick a movie series or TV season and do a marathon
      Go to the movie theater and see a movie that ends at midnight
      Go to bed at 10 because thats okay too? (I have done that many a NYE)

    2. steps for a perfect NYE: (1) Go out for a coffee date and an afternoon movie early in the day while you hire a housekeeper from Handy or wherever to clean the house. (2) Arrive home and cook a simple but spectacular dinner, either cooperating or taking turns with the courses. Pick luxurious dishes you would usually never make at home, but also keep them simple (order dry-aged steak from the butcher, caviar on toast, etc). Prep up to the last step and then (3) Take a shower, do full make-up, put on your most glamorous dress. Husband in suit. (4) Eat dinner with candles, some nice music, put the Times Square stuff on TV, and spend the night drinking champagne. With a few courses spread out over the house and time to finish cooking them, this will take all evening. Magic.

      1. Totally copying this! It’ll be the perfect way to celebrate my new apartment too :)

      2. Steps 2-4 are almost exactly what we do. We order a fancy meal from Fresh Direct, dress up, and eat with the Times Square stuff on TV. For dessert we usually have fondue (also bought from Fresh Direct).

        This has been our tradition since we first started dating and I’ve never loved NYE more.

      3. FYI Trader Joe’s Lobster Ravioli is on our menu annually for when we do this for NYE!! HEAVEN and EASY.

        1. I should also add that we do this, but instead of a glamorous dress, I splurge and by a cute matchy-matchy PJ set (with something glamorous underneath) ;)

    3. I hate going out for NYE. Everyone is so determined to have a FABULOUS TIME that few people actually do. Plus I’m really scared to be on the roads at 2am after the parties, even in an Uber.

      I like to stay at home, make a nice dinner of appetizers, drink champagne and play connect 4 (don’t knock it tilll you’ve tried it. Connect 4 is the perfect drinking game).

    4. My husband and I prefer to stay in too — in past years, we’ve done the “make something complicated together while drinking champagne” thing, and also the “order takeout while drinking champagne” thing. Both are fun but I will say it’s nicer to wake up NY’s Day without a dirty kitchen…

      We usually flip between an old romantic comedy and the countdown-type shows, will sometimes play a board/card game, but either way often go to bed before midnight haha…. hey it’s already 2017 for Asia, Australia & Europe!

    5. Are you dive bar people? Go to a dive bar and make friends. I feel like I make this suggestion any time someone posts about a major holiday but seriously, cheap smoky bars are fun place always but especially on holidays! You’ll probably spend more on an uber than on alcohol.

    6. I recently discovered a local (to me) farm does an event where you take a horse drawn ride along a trail into the woods for about an hour and then have a campfire dinner. You byob and stay as late as you want and catch a sleigh back when you’ve had enough. I’m pushing for that this year.

    7. We are sooo not NYE people, but we love to go have a lunch date and see a movie (to take advantage of the fact that we don’t have to work) and then we come home, put on jammies, eat something quick and easy for dinner (leftovers or order pizza in or something like that), make chocolate chip cookies from scratch, drink wine, play board games and watch the ball drop.

    8. I hate NYE. My last three have been horrifically bad. So this year, I’m considering going to a movie, getting new PJs, coming home, getting on said new pajamas, making popcorn and hot cocoa, and watching a bad action and adventure movie and going to bed when I want to. If I want to go watch fireworks on my roof, I will. I don’t drink, I don’t like going out on NYE, and I love, love, love, love, love hanging out by myself.

  8. What would you cook the first time you cook for a guy? This is our third date so not that serious yet. I like to cook and we were talking about it on a date and so I thought it would be a fun and low key date but I’m stuck on ideas. I would like to spend an hour or less total and want it to seem low key but still impressive.

    Thanks all!

    1. I’d assume the main attraction is getting inside my house and getting some action, and would make penne with vodka sauce, crusty bread, salad, and me!

      1. +1 Rachel Ray has a “you’ll never be single again” vodka cream pasta recipe that is really good but easy to make.

      2. Ha! I love the third date!!

        Eat something that doesn’t make you gassy or bloated. ;)

        How about a Caesar salad from scratch?

        1. Caesar salads give people bad breath I think. I would go with chicken marsala or chicken piccata – it’s pretty simple to make and eat and you can drink the wine while you cook it (and whatever is left over).

      3. To this end, if OP is going for a “fun and low key date” but isn’t planning to sleep with the guy, cooking dinner for him is not the way to go.

        1. That seems pretty arbitrary. OP likes to cook, as do I, that can absolutely be fun and low key.

          If she said she never cooks and was going to take the effort to learn something new/buy kitchen equipment for the occasion, then that might be less low key.

          1. I’m not Anon at 2:38 but I think ‘come over and I’ll cook dinner’ is kind of a euphemism. Even if she’s the world’s best chef and a dinner like this takes her no effort whatsoever, it’s still an intimate thing to invite someone to your home and cook for them, and definitely suggests she’s open to something physical happening.

          2. Inviting a guy into your home on a third date is an invitation for $3x. 100%.

          3. Hahah lol no there’s no such thing as an invitation for s3x except for, you know, actually physically initiating it or saying ‘i would like to have sex with you.’ What’s next… “you shouldn’t have led him on?” She has to put out if he buys her dinner? What if she decides she doesn’t want to? Can she rescind the invitation?

            Dear god, do you not understand how troubling it is to say that? Yeah, “watching a movie” or coming over for dinner is often a nice pretext for s3x/provides the opportunity to make it happen, but to pretend that it’s 100% an invitation for s3x is regressive as hell. I’m so sick of this attitude, and I’m APPALLED that people (especially women) accept that you can’t invite a guy into your home without him being justified in expecting s3x. F. THAT.

    2. Salmon cooked in parchment. Sauvignon blanc or beer.

      Place on oiled parchment – one serving salmon, asparagus spears, tiny potatoes.
      Sprinkle with olive oil, salt and pepper, and dry herbs you want or a wedge of lemon.
      Wrap closed. Watch video for specifics to learn how to cut parchment, close well.
      Bake 15-20min at 425.

      Makes for a nice presentation when you cut it open. Healthy and tasty.

      1. Absolutely no to asparagus of you are going to get busy. Just no.

    3. My answer to this is something you are very comfortable making and something that doesn’t take too much time (or prep everything ahead of time). I have made the mistake of trying to cook something for the first time for a date and it makes me anxious and that takes a lot of the fun out of it for me – YMMV.

    4. Fajitas! You can go as fancy or as low key as you want with toppings. Margaritas. Done.

      1. This is what I made the first time I cooked for my bf. Didn’t take much thought and we could still chat while things were cooking up.

    5. Thanks for the suggestions all.

      And yes, I know what the implications of inviting a guy over for dinner are, and am totally on board with the idea of something physical happening.

      1. I was agreeing with the comments above so I’m SO GLAD you added this. :) Keep us posted!

  9. Gift ideas for a 14 year old girl. Into dancing, sports, her friends…not super into clothes and makeup. She’s very low key, not a big reader.

    1. Lululemon leggings and headband

      Sketchbook and nice colored pencils

      ITunes gift card

      A necklace with a teeny charm that has a meaning (several brands sell these)

    2. Daughter is turning 15 today, so I’ve got this one. Even if she’s not into clothes, Lululemon yoga pants or headbands. EOS lip balms. Scented anything – candles, perfume, body wash. Lush bath bombs. Hair masks/face masks or other non-makeup beauty products. Gift cards to the local hangout (Starbucks, pizza place, whatever).

    3. What type of dance? If ballet and your budget, tickets to a local show or a Yumiko leotard. Gift cards to the local dance store.

  10. I need to vent.

    I am a public defender at the appellate level. I love the law and the Constitution, and I love being in court and engaging in oral argument at the appellate level. But…I hate my clients. I am burning out because I cannot muster much (or any) compassion anymore. Case in point today: Client has to go back to the trial court for an appearance and will be assigned a trial court level public defender. There is a $40 lawyer fee for this. (Most states have a public defender fee.) She complained for ten straight minutes about how she couldn’t afford this fee and she is struggling to pay her rent. When I told her the appearance date, she exploded that she needs it changed because she is taking her son out of town for school vacation week and “it costs money to change plane tickets.” PLANE TICKETS?! She lives on credit cards and food stamps. If I were dictator of the world, I would have her tubes forcibly tied.

    This is merely one example of about a million. The calls from prison and the calls from family members are always heartbreaking, but a simple THANK YOU would go a long way toward making me feel better about this. The entitlement is what really gets to me. The system is racist and abusive, but the people (on all sides) are also terrible.

    I’m generally liberal. I voted HRC. But I cannot abide by the progressive idea that poor people don’t contribute to their own failure. Of course they do. I see it every day. I don’t know what to do anymore, and I can’t keep doing this work. I make decent money (high five figures – thankfully my state is serious about public defense) and am working very hard to pay off my student loans in the next 12 months. When they are gone I want to go work in a bakery or an animal shelter. I feel guilty that I never want to have anything else to do with the impoverished. But I am so done.

    1. I have done quite a bit of work with public defenders and can understand where you are coming from. I never quite understand why I see indigent defendants in court with iPhones, or why at my first job out of college my co-workers and I pooled our money for a holiday”adopt-a-family” thing and the gift requested was an expensive video game system that none of us could afford to buy for ourselves. On the other hand, people who work with the poor always tell me that there is more to the story than meets the eye with things like this, and you can’t understand what it’s like to be poor and why poor people make the choices they make unless you have been poor yourself. Perhaps someone else bought the plane tickets. Perhaps she saved for two years to take her son to see his grandmother. Sometimes it’s hard for me to wrap my head around it all. But that is why I chose a job where I can help the poor by influencing public policy, not by working with them directly.

      1. It’s possible, but this same client once told me she was waiting for new credit cards to come in the mail so she could go on a cruise…before she was arrested again.

        I have had very decent clients who have been lovely and very appreciative. But they constitute maybe 5-10% of the population of clients I have.

        Thanks for your comment. (P.S. I was once in front of a judge who refused to declare a client indigent because he was carrying a brand new iPhone.)

        1. Well, in that case presuming good intentions sounds very difficult.

          I hear you on the entitlement too. I will never forget the time I went to interview some community leaders to get their opinion on a program I was evaluating, and all they wanted to talk about was what other programs I could get them.

          1. P.S. There is one state, can’t remember which, where judges are supposed to ask defendants whether they get manicures, and if so what type (gel, acrylic, conventional), when making ability-to-pay determinations. Again, not sure why these people can afford manicures if I can’t, but on the other hand that line of inquiry just doesn’t seem quite right.

          2. Well for one thing, because it’s super duper sexist since typically only women get manicures…I hope they have an equivalent inquiry for men.

      2. Thank you for doing what you do. It’s so important.

        And I hear you.

        I’m a doctor and I was livid when I saw where my world class hospital performed abortions and how the patients were treated (lack of support, even disdain from some health care providers). But when my last patient revealed this was her 5th abortion at the age of 19, with no plans for birth control, and no financial skin in the game with all medical care paid for by charity care…..it felt very, very, very wrong.

        I wish I could put every woman Depo Provera until the age of 25. At least on my bad days, I wish for that.

        1. And that is why we need public defenders and legal aid and the ACLU. Because not so very long ago, rich do gooders did forcibly sterilize women for being poor.

          1. Teaching sex ed with easy access to reliable birth control for kids in some communities is sorely lacking. I think the point of better birth control for kids and immature adults is well taken.

            I’m as pro-choice as they come, but I don’t like the idea of using abortions as your primary method of birth control.

          2. The comment had nothing to do with her being poor, and everything to do with her being stupid.

    2. You’re about to get a pep talk from a rock-ribbed conservative:

      You are seeing as self-selected group of the impoverished. Yes, they may be charged with things that middle-class white people would be slapped on the wrist for, and some might be railroaded by a bad system, but, by in large, you are dealing with the subset of the poor who make bad decisions.

      Burnout in any position like that is understandable. I wish our funding (pensions, etc.) better accounted for burnout (ie assumed that people would be there for about 10 years and made it worthwhile if it’s not a lifetime career).

      Take time off if you need it.

      But consider working as an ALJ in the welfare office or for a non-profit that provides legal services to the poor after that. Yes, you’ll still see people who are poor because of lousy decision-making, but it won’t be nearly as bad.

      1. Bridget, you are so on point here. OP, I also work with an indigent population (legal services but not criminal defense). Some of my clients are absolutely frustrating. Sometimes they spend what I consider to be a ridiculous amount on food and cable bills and can’t put together the nominal fees required for the work I do. Other clients are lovely and hardworking folks. The criminal defense population is, by and large, made of of people who have made a lot of mistakes in their lives. Which is not to say that those mistakes are irreversible or that everyone is the captain of their own demise. But definitely take a deep breath and consider your particular population. The frustrations are still there in other legal services capacities (although to be honest – humans are judgmental creatures and, like I said above, I have certain clients I can’t stand) but probably to a much lesser degree.

    3. Me too. I’m not a public defender but do similar work. I’m so tired of grown ups not being able to adult. The whining and bad decision-making made me change roles. How do you wait in line for hours for the new Jordans yet have no electricity on at your house?

    4. Thank you.

      Thank you for participating to keep our system functioning – because that’s what I see your job as. Not necessarily to help particular clients, but to keep the system honest.

      And if you are done, that’s okay too. Maybe it’s time to let someone else shoulder the burden.

    5. I am an appellate public defender also. I certainly have clients that brought there situation upon themselves, made bad decisions, etc. I have clients who are rude to me, call me names, yell at me, hang up on me, you name it. BUT I believe in keeping the system accountable, holding the State to its burden, doing what I can to make sure my client is treated fairly. This has nothing to do with the particular client. I also feel the reverse about most of my clients. 5-10% are jerks to me and everyone else. The rest of them are kind, respectful, and appreciative towards me. I spend as much time as I can (given my very heavy caseload) cultivating this relationship with my clients. I respect them and honestly believe for many of them they are a product of their environment and a systemic-wide breakdown in society/services/humanity going back to their childhood, even generational in many cases. I respect my clients as people and truly believe “there but for the grace of God go I.” (My background maybe makes this easier for me.)

      I don’t think everyone can do this work for an entire career. I have been doing this for 10 years and have seen many, many people burn out and become bitter. Some people can put that aside and still do a good job for the client. Some can’t. It’s not a failure to admit that. But it does require some soul searching.

      1. “BUT I believe in keeping the system accountable, holding the State to its burden, doing what I can to make sure my client is treated fairly. This has nothing to do with the particular client.”

        This is why I do it too. I’ve been doing it for about ten years too, and I care much more about my writing and court presentation than anything else, so I am able to put everything else aside. But yes to soul searching.

      2. I have a PD friend who was so burned out she went to big law. Which I think was a slight over-correction, but she is actually happier not worrying about her clients.

    6. If you are a public defender struggling to represent your clients because you are too busy judging them for their poverty, you should quit. Immediately. You are ill suited to the job.

      1. +1. The fact that you could even jokingly talk about forcibly tying someone’s tubes because you disagree with their spending choices is disgusting.

        1. Get a freaking grip. I grew up poor too. We managed. And here I am.

          What exactly do you two do for the good of society?

          I’m paying off my loans. I’m not quitting. I win more cases than I lose (which is HARD in criminal appeals and criminal defense in general).

        2. +1. It demonstrates a profound disrespect for the humanity of your clients and a deep misunderstanding of poverty.

          1. Should the doctor who wishes she could put women on Depo provera until age 25 also quit her job?

            Having an obviously impractical fleeting thought about very complex issues does not make me incapable of doing my job.

          2. Frankly, she might think about taking some time off as well. It’s actually not OK at all.

          1. +1

            Seriously.

            And sometimes I wonder how many of the holier than thou posters never have a stressed/venting/normal thought, and work completely selfless jobs without being in a bubble.

            Not many, in my experience.

          2. It’s normal to stress and vent, especially when doing this type of work (I am also a public defender, who posted above in response to the original post.) However, burnout is also a real concern in this type of work and we have to be aware of that and consider whether we can still effectively represent clients once it happens. Sometimes people have to step away and these types of thoughts/views towards the client can be indicative of that.

        3. It’s hyperbole, and you’re exhausting.

          I wish that everyone (globally, regardless of econonmic status) would take advantage of *hard-fought* access to birth control to make responsible family planning decisions. For literally everyone’s best interest.

          Not saying poor people shouldn’t be able to have kids (at all) or that women shouldn’t enjoy gardening. (pls, garden). Or that there’s not systemic racism/classism/poverty issues.

          But….extra unplanned kids do not HELP any of these issues, and WOW it’s frustrating to see impoverished families with multiple kids who don’t seem wanted/cared for when there’s FREE and well-established means of preventing pregnancy.

          I run a nonprofit and also get resentful sometimes of the entitlement, but mostly sad for the kids we serve.

          1. ‘c’ I so agree with you. I think of all those poor kids growing up lacking the basics necessary for getting out of the vicious cycle of poverty. I don’t understand having 4 kids before you are 23, no high school, and no chances of getting a job. Is anyone counseling young women about birth control (yes, men are part of the equation, but they don’t have the babies)? And speaking of the baby daddies–why aren’t they treated with scorn and abuse for being welfare deadbeat dads?

        4. Obviously she wasn’t serious. I don’t know if you know any public defenders or similar public servants, but venting like this is not at all unusual. Some of the things they say behind closed doors might shock you, and that’s okay, because some of the things THEY’VE seen and heard and dealt with behind those same closed doors are the same horrors you pray your whole life to never see. Gallows humor is not just a concept, it’s a coping mechanism for some.

          1. Yup, we do this in our field. To an outsider, it sounds awful. But outsiders just have no idea….

          2. YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP. Legal aid here. We say terrible things. Gallows humor. It’s how I explained HRC “laughing” about getting the guy off. Nope. Sometimes things are so terrible you just have to laugh or you wont’ be able to do the work.

            I “laughed” the other day about how completely SOL one of my clients is post-release from prison. It’s not funny. It’s terrible. It’s horrible. He’s at huge risk of reoffending, homelessness, etc. But it’s just unbelievable how completely, terribly, absolutely screwed he is in a way you can only really laugh at or I’ll cry.

    7. Well then, from an internet stranger, THANK YOU. You do extremely important work for your clients (even if they drive you bonkers) and also ALL of us. You really do. I don’t think anyone is totally fulfilled in their job, but public defender is certainly one of the more trying and thankless ones. You are important. You are what guarantees our democracy a fair day in court, free of bribes or judgments based on financial status. What’s more is that even without the prestige the prosecutor gets and without the pay the private sector attorney gets, you do it nonetheless, getting up everyday to fight the fight. We don’t have a fair system without you. You are an unsung hero, so I want to sing for you! THANK YOU. You are appreciated.

    8. The things I witnessed while working in an urban public school setting (high school) were so rage-inducing, and highly similar to what you are describing, that after four years I was done. I had to quit for me, but also for my students. Venting and your general frame of mind right now is part of the job, it’s what makes you human and not a robot is so many ways, but please remember to take a step back and evaluate if it’s just a vent or a long-term mindset taking over the lens through which you do your work. Mine was sadly the latter. I’m sad I couldn’t give them more, but it was the right decision for everyone.

      Thank you for the work that you do – it’s tireless and thankless, and you are an important part of our ‘system’ working, whether this be a one-time vent or you realizing you’re at the end of your tenure in this role. Your contributions are significant and matter.

    9. Serious question, I am not a lawyer so I don’t know if this would be outside the bounds of professionalism: is it out of the question for you to call people on these kinds of things? Something like, “Wow! it must have taken some dedication to save up for plane flights, knowing how hard it can be for you to find the space in your budget for our office’s fee.” Or, “Wow, a new iPhone! That must have been pricey.”

      This is not exactly analogous, but I’m a professor and when my students complain about how busy they are I’ll often say something like “wow, it does sound like you were really busy this weekend! But next weekend you’ll be done and I’ll be grading 120 finals.” Lightly and with a smile, but just an acknowledgement that we’re both human beings in this space sharing a conversation. If they discussed buying something that I, personally, couldn’t afford, I might say so. Again, not with a tone of judgment, but more “here is some information about my framework on the world.”

      1. In the same vein as this thread, I’ve been an attorney in public service 27 years (mostly anti child abuse work) and I have compassion fatigue. My fantasy is to get into Big Law. Is that even possible at this age/stage? I don’t know any attorneys at big firms and I don’t have a book of clients, but I can try the heck out a case in the courtroom.

  11. Fancy headphones. Athletic wear from Zella, Lululemon, or ivivva (Lululemon’s kids’ line) depending on her size. Magazine subscription (Teen Vogue was recently recommended on the moms’ s i t e as containing substantial, thought-provoking content). Gift card for wherever she likes to hang out with her friends–in our area the youth like Panera.

  12. I did this and was very surprised to be a bit (b/w 15 and 20%) Scandinavian. Vikings? We are the people in Hillbilly Elegy, so we’ve be in the US for centuries and haven’t left (vacations involve fishing or hunting). Is this how Genghis Khan is if you have Asian ancestry?

    1. I would assume a Midwestern (Minnesota has a lot of Scandinavian descent) factored in at some point?

      1. Nope — rural SE US. Not near a major city or army/naval/MC base or interstate highway (until 60 years ago). Originally from England (or so we thought). Been here since the late 1700s farming.

        1. Vikings controlled and ruled over parts of northern Britain for some time before Alfred the Great kicked them out. I think.

    2. Hi, I’m the white trash poster from above. Scandinavian can mean Irish. That’s where the red hair came from, the Vikings invading.

      I got the same result on Ancestry’s DNA test. I know I have what my family calls “scotch-Irish” blood but there are no Swedes, Danes or Norwegians in my family tree.

      1. Funny — I did not have the red hair gene. It has been confirmed!

        I knew what we were poor, rural, and white. I did not know that we were *that* white.

        [Also, if I come from people this hardy, why am I always cold? Or do I need the hat with horns on it?]

          1. Do you have a porch freezer and burn your trash? Did you as a child? If so, I reckon that we are cousins!

          2. Yes and yes. Hey cuz. Let’s get together and talk about that hilarious time gramma fell out of the truck.

      2. There’s a lot of Scotch-Irish in the south. I had a university prof who had a whole theory related to guns/violence and the Scotch-Irish predominance in the south.

      3. “Scotch-Irish” isn’t just what your family calls them — it’s a specific group of people. Scots transplanted from Scotland to Northern Ireland (this is why there’s a large Protestant population in Northern Ireland) during the reign of King James I and then a number of them left Ireland and headed for the Americas (primarily the South).

    3. You’re probably Scottish at some point, and the Vikings did a good job of intermingling with the Highlands and Islands.

    4. Google “the Danelaw.” Anyone who’s of primarily English heritage is virtually certain to have some Scandi ancestry.

    5. I’m waiting on Ancestry results and my grandma just got hers. She also has a TON of “Scandinavian” DNA, and I assumed Vikings. She would have said she was German and Irish, maybe a little English, before these results. She also showed up with a big chunk of Italian/Greek heritage. Basically, I think it means Europe was conquering the $h1t out of each other a long time ago.

  13. Can one of you explain the renting a cottage as ‘vacation’ thing? If I’m still cooking and cleaning it’s not a vacation. Especially given that it’s really only marginally more expensive to go to an all inclusive in the Caribbean or south America

    1. If you’re only there for a week or two you don’t have to do much cleaning, since it will be cleaned thoroughly before and after your visit. And some people enjoy cooking on vacation, and find going to local farmers markets and making local foods at home to be an interesting part of touring a place. I don’t and you don’t, but that’s why there are other options for people like us.

      1. +1 to this. There is a rural-ish vacation area my husband and I go to every summer and we always stay at this one big resort there. But I get so tired of eating out every day really. I would love to just go to the local market and cook myself something basic. The resort rooms don’t have fridges, so I can’t even do something like go buy cheese and fruit unless I want to eat it immediately.

    2. The only way I can see the appeal is if you rent a big giant vacation house and get the extended family together. Cooking together and hanging out in the common space can be fun. But renting a cottage just for my nuclear family? No thank you.

    3. We do every vacation in a cottage. We like rustic areas where the kids can run free, and where we make the rules. Cooking involves tossing random protein plus veggies on the grill, just a few minutes work and way less stressful than bringing small children to even the most casual restaurant. And the cottages we rent are easily 1/5 the cost of an all inclusive (and yes I’ve investigated both routes). Can’t say I really clean either beyond the bare minimum of wiping countertops, etc. We stay mostly outside, so there’s not much dirt in the cottage.

    4. It’s way cheaper than an all inclusive vacation in a foreign country, unless you plan to fly somewhere and rent a huge mansion in an expensive place. Particularly if you have children.

    5. Most people I know who do this have kids or are getting together with family. It’s much cheaper because you’re not paying for lots of people to fly, less of a headache than carting little ones through an airport, and accessible for older family members who might not want/be able to travel.

    6. To be honest, renting a cottage or a condo is usually much more relaxing for me than going to an “all inclusive” thing… It’s like your real life, except in a nicer place and with fewer responsibilities. That’s basically all I want out of a vacation most of the time.

      I don’t know if it’s explainable so much as just an ingrained preference from family trips and general introversion. You do you.

    7. Kids.

      With three kids (including one with food allergies). We almost always rent a house/apartment with a kitchen (if city). Don’t have to clean (other than basic tidying like you would in a hotel room). We often order delivery or pick up take out so we don’t have to cook every night. We like to cook though and enjoy trying out local specialty recipes with local ingredients (like pesto in Liguria)

      Having to deal with three kids under 5 in a restaurant 3 times a day (even if a buffet) is torture not vacation.

      1. Yes, this. Also nice to not have to go out to eat every single meal, sometimes you just want some coffee and toast in your pajamas. And also much more private than staying at a hotel, you can sit by the pool with your family rather than with random strangers, or go back and forth from the beach without going through a hotel public area in your towel and sandy feet. And a lot of vacation houses come with bikes, toys, surfboards, board games, etc so they are good for people who like doing a lot of things, particularly outdoorsy active type things.

    8. “If I’m still cooking and cleaning it’s not a vacation”

      Amen my friend. I just got back from a huge (so not on top of other guests), lush all-inclusive, with good food and better wine than I buy for the house. That was a vacation.

        1. Valentin Imperial Maya, south of Cancun and north of Playa del Carmen. You can spend more and you can spend less, but this place has great bang for the buck. It’s beautiful and the employees are extraordinarily kind and helpful. We noted that a number of the employees were the same from 2011 to 2016. This was our third trip. We talked to a couple who were on their 27th trip to this same resort. Much of their business is repeat customers.

    9. We rent a house for vacation. I wouldn’t do it in an urban location but we like to be in the woods. Our rule is, cereal for breakfast, out for lunch, and dinner cooked at the house. We usually do things like grilled steak and bagged salad so there aren’t too many ingredients or dishes to wash up.

        1. Amen! I am single and vacation alone purposefully. A cabin in the woods alone is awesome to me.

        2. I hate staying at places like B&Bs and think I wouldn’t like staying at one of those fancy resorts that come with butler service. I like to be anonymous in a hotel or isolated from everyone else in a rental house.

    10. You mean just like a vacation house rental? We always do that when my family vacations. Everyone gets their own bedroom, cheaper than a hotel for 4 people, and we’re only there for a week, so it’s not like you do much cleaning, and we certainly didn’t cook dinner. We eat dinner out every night, and lunch is just a sandwich or salad, so not really involved.

    11. Sure! I hate the Carribean and all inclusives with a passion, enjoy cooking and don’t do it often enough at home, and like the privacy.

    12. We’ve done beach house and mountain cabins, both with other families and just our nuclear family. I like having the additional space instead of being cramped in a hotel room, especially now that we have a kid that goes to bed hours before we do. It’s also nice to have the option to cook (which I find fun) instead of having to eat out for all meals.

    13. A friend rented one that came with daily maid service and a private chef and she swore it was cheaper than an AI for their group size (they had 12 people I think). That looked amaaaazing. Otherwise, I agree with you. A vacation where I cook and clean is no vacation at all.

      1. There’s tons of these in Italy and they are generally not more expensive (on a per person basis) than a high-end Caribbean resort. Usually have their own pool.

    14. I’ve never understood the concept of having a vacation home, for the same reason. (At least, unless you had enough money to have a staff for it as well.) I live in a low cost of living area near the mountains, and a lot of non-rich people have mountain cabins for the weekends, but my reaction to that was always “why would you want to have another home to maintain on your vacation?”

      1. Eh, a vacation home is pretty different, especially one that’s close enough that you can visit on weekends. With my precious 3 weeks of vacation time I want a “real” vacation that doesn’t involve me cooking or doing dishes. But on weekends or holidays, I’d be happy to escape to a nearby vacation home for a change of scenery without feeling like I’m “on vacation” and excused from cooking and cleaning. I mean, I’ve got to that stuff at home on the weekends anyway, so doing it from a vacation home isn’t a burden.

        1. But why not just go to a reasonably priced hotel, where you could get a change of scenery *and* be excused from doing anything?

          1. I don’t much enjoy staying in a Holiday Inn or similar affordable chain hotel. I stay in them sometimes because I want to visit a particular place and don’t have money in the budget for a nicer hotel, but a stay there is not something I consider relaxing or enjoy independent of enjoying the destination. A well-maintained family cabin sounds a million times better.
            Plus, even cheap hotels add up if you’re visiting them regularly. If you own a cabin that you’re renting out the rest of the year, it’s probably more affordable than staying in even a budget hotel once a month. And in the case of most of the people I know who have family cabins, the cabins were bought by the parents or grandparents and are essentially free of charge for the younger generation, so in that case it’s much, much cheaper than a budget hotel.

          2. I think one big reason is not havin to cart around all the stuff that you use at a cabin (skis, sleds, canoes, bikes, fishing poles, beach chairs, towels, floaties, life jackets, etc).

      2. This is me, trying to understand Minnesotans – they often live in the Mpls-St. Paul area, but there’s a family cabin somewhere up north. And during the summer – everyone goes to the cabin on weekends. There is “cabin traffic” as people leave Friday afternoon and come back Sunday evening. And it’s anywhere from a 2-4 hour drive to get there (due to distance, not traffic).

        And it’s…nice? I’m not a big lake person (most cabins are associated with one of the 10,000 lakes), so maybe that’s part of it. Shrug.

  14. In 2 weeks, I am co-presenting to the Board about a regulatory requirement. I have 3 options for what to wear.

    First is a black & white sheath dress with a cobalt blue jacket with black trim.

    Second is a black skirt suit.

    Third is a grey pantsuit.

    I would probably wear a red silk blouse with either 2 or 3.

    Which option sounds like the best for what I am doing? My co-presenter will wear either a dress or a skirt suit, I am sure.

    1. #2 or #3, whichever you feel better in. Or if they are equal, go with #3 since gray and red go together better than red and black.

  15. help please! Have been super stressed this week but am having 6 ladies over Friday night. I don’t need to serve a full three course meal but want to have more than apps. I have cheese and crackers and one of the pastry onion apps from trader joes. Any ideas?

    1. Are you in a city with Fresh Direct? Order one of their catering platters (there’s one called Mediterranean mezze or similar which is great) and call it a day.

    2. Cook up a big thing of pasta, some meat sauce, some marinara sauce. Have pesto available. Get some pre-cut veggies that are good on pasta and some mozz from Trader Joe’s.

      Instant pasta bar. Add pre-made salad from abag andsome garlic brea

    3. Other frozen items from Trader Joe’s like lasagna (easily shareable), or maybe a salad?

  16. Commenting on the rural thread from above reminded me of what was one of my most favorite things as a child: a child encyclopedia. A set of books that were obviously written for children, yet was rather comprehensive in its content. I must have started reading them when I was 10 and d*mned if I didn’t read through all the volumes, from A to Z. I learned about Marie Curie, the Taj Mahal, Big Ben, the Great Wall of China, Atilla the Hun, and too many more to remember. It was my gateway to the world. I can’t recommend it enough.

    1. Yes — I got an old set on ebay for my children. They keep asking me questions about stuff but both can read. Look it up! is not my answer to them.

    2. We got an old World Book encyclopedia at a garage sale when I was a kid. It was out of date on some things, but I LOVED it. Can’t believe I’ve never thought of giving something like that as a gift.

      1. We had the World Book AND the children’s version and I would spend HOURSSSS reading those things (they are still there when I go home!) Typing this out now, I can still remember the smell… and the luxury of those gold-edged pages! Come to think of it, this is clearly why I so easily fall down a wikipedia hole for 4 hours with the intention of looking up temperature averages for vacation and ending up reading about conspiracy theories of D.B. Cooper.

        We also had a book called “the year you were born” which was a short history of current events in a child’s birth year, but I loved them so much, we got like 20 years of them.

  17. Probably too late, but if you are a manager +, what are you getting your direct reports for an end of year gift?

    1. I have had a lot of reports in the past, but i try to get things they can use (small starbux gc) or things that make them feel like part of a team or club. in the past I have given notebooks (field notes are awesome) and pens, stress balls,small items from places i travel, like key chains. i try to avoid junk and stay hip, i guess. I’m not sure what to do this year but i found these neat post its on amazon that can be made into origami creatures after you use them, so maybe that.

    2. I know that it is easiest to get everyone the same thing, but I thought I’d share how sweet my husband’s boss is. She gets everyone a bottle of wine or a coffee-related item but knows that my husband doesn’t drink either so she gets him chocolates, which he loves. It is more work for her, but he really appreciates how well his boss knows him.

    3. My manager paid for all of her direct reports to have a 10 to 15 minute chair massage, including making the arrangements to book a conference room for 2 afternoons so we didn’t have to leave work or anything. We returned the favor by adding her to the list and paying for a 30 minute chair massage.

      1. Oh god, this would be my idea of hell. Nice idea, but I’d honestly rather work a 60-hour week than get a massage. Ever. From anyone. At any point.

    4. I wasn’t aware this was a thing. Any consultants out there do this for direct reports?

  18. Does anyone else just not really buy gifts? My husband and I don’t get gifts for each other because it’s the same money in the account and if he needs a sweater we get a sweater. Seems absurd to wrap up something like that. Also we’re minimalists – no collections or clutter. We discuss large purchases for the house or if we individually want something (i.e. I just got myself new Bose headphones this week because my old ones broke). For the extended family there’s a secret santa exchange.

    1. DH and I buy gifts for other people, and love doing so, but we don’t gift to one another for a lot of the same reasons. I would not call us minimalists, though. But, we’d much rather buy a new couch, TV, go on a trip, or buy some other larger ticket item – and not necessarily an indulgent one as this year we’re getting a seriously needed new washer/dryer (YAY) around the holidays, maybe even in Jan, but not necessarily as xmas gifts to ourselves – rather than buy stuff for the sake of gifting at xmas.

      I certainly don’t judge people who do gift, though. It’s just not our style or how we prefer to spend our money, I suppose.

    2. This is me (+ spouse)! I am literally buying ZERO gifts this year if you don’t count the one office gift swap. I personally only do gifts for kids – I feel like they care more and I cared more when I was a kid without my own money – and there are none around me this year. We are also minimalists and I hate the random clutter from people who buy us non-edible gifts…it all goes to Goodwill a few months later.

    3. My parents and I are like this now that I’m an adult (and I don’t have children, or a significant other). It’s nice, and we enjoy our holiday together. It does make questions about whether I’ve finished my Christmas shopping awkward, though.

    4. Yep, I usually take my husband out for a nice dinner for birthdays/holidays. Or we save up for vacations. Sometimes we’ll get each other little gifts, like a book. I used to get bigger gifts for my parents but now it seems like they have everything they need, so I’m getting them little things like tea, fun snacks, and framed pictures.

    5. SO and I largely stopped doing gifts years ago. We just go out to a nice dinner instead.

    6. Husband and I don’t regularly exchange gifts. We buy what we want no matter what time of the year. However Santa is bringing my husband a pair of $10 sweatpants this year because he wears the same old ratty pair all the time.

    7. My husband and I are the exact same way. We just put the money toward vacation or something for the house. Same reasons.

  19. PSA for Limited shoppers:

    Something is going on at The Limited.

    Their return policy has changed effective today. ALL SALES FINAL. They’ve also stopped selling gift cards.

    Hundreds of people (like me) still haven’t received their orders from 11/28 with no good response from the company as to when we’ll get those orders.

    News says that 2 CEOs have left in relatively quick succession and that there is a plan to layoff everyone at the Albany headquarters. Plans to sell or close the store completely.

    Be wary of shopping there right now please.

    1. They made it very difficult for me to return two dresses – SKU numbers changed overnight and because the SKU at the time of the purchase was not the SKU at the time of return (literally 4 days lapsed), I had to go through a weird online/mail process and they couldn’t take it back in store. This was just before Thanksgiving. I don’t usually shop there and will not shop there from that experience alone.

    2. WHOA. Thanks for the heads up. I hope they are not going out of business because I like their stuff. But I will never shop there so long as all sales are final because the quality varies a lot and often my normal size doesn’t fit well.

    3. Thanks for posting this. I am still waiting on my order from 11/28 as well – getting very annoyed. Not even a shipment confirmation yet… I will call their customer service tomorrow and see what they say (if I can even get through…?)

      1. I just finally received my shipping confirm from my 11/28 order. I may go to their physical store this week to stock up on some basics that I like there. Unfortunately, it’s not looking good for them going forward.

  20. I know everyone seems to love this, but my mom wants it to control her tv. Is that a thing it does? Or does it just turn off the lights?

    1. If you get the Amazon Fire stick then you can use it with the Alexa app to control your TV. But as far as I know the Echo doesn’t control your TV.

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