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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 247 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Italian Flannel Godet-Inset Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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talbotsOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Happy Wednesday! This highly-rated dress is almost sold out in some colors, but still has a ton of sizes left in black in regular, petite, and plus sizes. I think this dress is very classic on one hand but also sort of unusual because it's a shape we haven't seen a lot this year — and if you're the type who runs hot but still wants sleeves, I suspect you'll get a ton of wear out of this dress for every season but summer. The dress is available exclusively online in red, gray, cobalt blue, and black, and in regular, petite, and plus sizes. It's $132-$146 on sale at Talbots (from $209) because right now everything on the site is 30% off! Italian Flannel Godet-Inset Dress Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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Comments

  1. Paging Sydney Bristow

    Just saw your question about Star Trek presents. Have you thought about Leonard Nimoy’s photography? There are some beautiful photo books of his work, or you can get a framed photo done by him. Some are signed – but that might not be in the budget.
    — TorontoNewbie

    • Sydney Bristow

      That is a genius idea! I’ve now bought everything for him for Christmas, but that would be a perfect birthday gift this year. We have an entire wall of space-themed art, including a print of Alan Bean’s as the centerpiece. A framed photo by Nimoy would fit in nicely. Thanks!

      • Scarlett

        I missed this yesterday but my husband also hearts Star Trek and there are a lot of cast and still photos on eBay that are pretty cool (read I could live with in the house).

  2. anon

    I’m always cold but I like to wear dresses to work. Is it unprofessional if I keep a cashmere wrap/throw on my lap under the table? What if I’m in a client facing role (but not for actual client meetings)? If this isn’t a good idea, are there other alternatives to cold legs besides wearing pants or tights, especially in the summer?

    • Anon

      If you’re always cold, then I think you need to dress accordingly (tights or stockings if you want to wear dresses). It’s one thing to keep a blazer or wrap in your office for those days when the office is inexplicably cold – but if you’re wearing it all the time, then I’m going to wonder why you can’t dress yourself appropriately.

    • AKB

      Keep a small space heater under your desk. Using a blanket at work (yes, that’s what it is) appears too familiar and unprofessional

    • HSAL

      If a space heater is an option, I suggest that. Or perhaps a seat heater? I think tights would be weird in the summer (I assume you wear them in the winter). If no one can see the blanket, go for it. Otherwise, I think it’s pants or suffering.

    • Anon

      What? Girl, use a blanket. If it’s under your desk, and practically no one can see it, go for it. I agree that you may want to rethink your work wardrobe, but being absolutely freezing for 8-10 hours a day is no way to live!

      • sweetknee

        I can’t use a space heater at work, but I do have a heating pad that I sit on if it is cold in my office. We are in an old building with wonky heating and air conditioning systems. My office is always at least 8 degrees cooler than everywhere else. If my booty is warm, then it really helps.

        • BabyAssociate

          This is my exact situation. I loveee my heating pad, it makes such a difference.

    • H

      I think it would be fine to use a blanket at your desk but remove it when going to meetings.

      • Anonymous

        I keep some sort of nice jacket thing at your desk in case the meeting room is also cold. Like a sweater jacket or in the winter, some sort of cape/jacket (just make sure its not outerwear).

    • anotheranon

      I’m always cold. I look godawful in pants.

      1. Space heater
      2. Tights. Opaque ones.
      3. Booties instead of pumps where possible. They cover more of your foot and you can add socks.
      4. I keep a pashmina at my desk to put on my lap when I’m sitting there. I don’t take it anywhere else- that’s just not a good look.
      5. Mug of tea -drink it, and also use it to warm your hands.
      6. If wearing skirt/sweater combo, add silk shell under sweater (I guess you could add a silk shell under a dress…)

      These are my winter tips. For summer, your only real choices are a) pants, b) space heater, or c) desk blanket/wrap

    • Anon

      I have a pashmina or other wide scarf on hand all the time. I have no gualms about throwing it around my shoulders in a chilly meeting room. In fact, I just did this last week in a board meeting. No big deal.

    • Frozen Peach

      Space heater.

      sweetknee, that heating pad idea is genius!!

      Also, I have this issue and a friend gave me a heated floor mat for my office last year as a gift. It really works!

    • Anon

      I have a black cashmere wrap that I wear in my office at my desk when it’s cold. I either wear it like a traditional wrap/shawl or I use it as a blanket over my legs. No one sees it most of the time, and I think it looks fine even if someone were to pop in. I don’t bring it to meetings or use it outside of my office, though.

  3. In-House in Houston

    Has anyone tried the Bliss Go Pack for weight loss? I something on FB about it, and of course, it seems too good to be true. I read the reviews on Amazon and they are mixed: some love it, some say it doesn’t work. I just want to not gain any weight these next few weeks….Thanks!!

    • Anonymous

      It’s too good to be true. If you want to not gain any weight in the next few weeks skip cookies and wine.

    • JuniorMinion

      I would be careful with stuff like this….most of them contain additional stimulants (besides caffeine). A friend of mine used one of these and started getting such bad anxiety / heart palpitations she had to leave work early.

      It’s basically a form of legalized speed it looks like since supplements aren’t regulated by the FDA… which will make you skinny but not in a healthy way.

      Agree with poster above, skip desserts / processed carbs / go easy on alcohol and exercise.

      • nutella

        Yeah, don’t waste your money. If you don’t want to go crazy over the holidays, drink a glass of water before a meal and monitor your weak points (grazing over appetizers for hours, too many desserts, too much alcohol, whatever). Fit in some exercise while you’re at it. And if you put on 3lbs over the holidays, it’s not the end of the world. Remember that holidays are a time for happiness and being with people/doing things you love; don’t be miserable because you are afraid of a couple of pounds.

        • nutella

          One more thing – regarding your weaknesses, I like to treat myself around the holidays to the ‘good stuff’ and savor it instead of wasting on the less delicious. So I’ll pass on my cousin’s stale cookies from the supermarket but I’ll have my aunt’s incredible homemade pie instead and really enjoy it.

          • cbackson

            Yes, this is what I do and I find it actually heightens my enjoyment of the real “good stuff.”

      • Anonymous

        A coworkers wife had a stroke at age 38. She collapsed at work and it was a horrific time for the family. They had a two year old at home and she was in the hospital and then an assisted living/physical therapy place for a couple weeks. It was several months before she was back on her feet.

        She was a smoker. On birth control. And she had been taking some new weight loss pill. After watching what she had to go through, I never want to mess around with diet pills again. (And I’m one of those people who took Xenadrine in college and thought it worked miracles.)

      • Jax

        A coworkers wife had a stroke at age 38. She collapsed at work and it was a horrific time for the family. They had a two year old at home and she was in the hospital and then an assisted living/physical therapy place for a couple weeks. It was several months before she was back on her feet.

        She was a smoker. On birth control. And she had been taking some new weight loss pill. After watching what she had to go through, I never want to mess around with diet pills again. (And I’m one of those people who took Xenadrine in college and thought it worked miracles.)

    • Anon

      It’s so pretty! It’s the absolute wrong shape for me but I would love to hear a report back from someone who buys it. I love wool flannel too.

    • Anonymity

      I got a Ponte animal print sheath dress in grey/black last week from Talbots. 50% off sale price so originally $149 for $50 (plus I had $25 in reward points.) I love it and am wearing it today!

    • CMT

      It’s so beautiful! I’m just starting a self-imposed shopping ban, but man, do I want this dress.

  5. BB

    Do you tip concierges at nice hotels when they do things like book restaurants for you?

    • MJ

      Yes, this is expected and the Concierge would be confused/miffed if you didn’t.

      There’s been a lot of articles about this in Conde Nast Traveler over the years.

      • Anon

        I worked as a concierge briefly and never expected a tip for anything. We weren’t paid great, but it’s not like restaurant servers.

    • Blue Collar Background

      I’m not the OP but these are the sort of things I didn’t learn growing up. You don’t want to insult someone by handing them cash for just doing their job if they are not in a tipping profession. If you haven’t seen your parents do it, it is kind of hard to learn who you tip and who you don’t. I never knew I was supposed to tip taxi drivers until I met my husband. I grew up rural and had never taken a taxi until law school.

      • Blue Collar Background

        To clarify, I’m not saying don’t tip the concierge, I’m saying don’t treat OP as dumb for not knowing.

      • Anon

        Thanks for saying this. I don’t think I took a taxi until I was in my twenties! It’s so hard to figure this stuff out (and my sister who stayed in our rural hometown knows the word concierge now but mispronounces it with an extra n after the i)

        • Ellen

          My dad alway’s tips the concierge at hotels for getting him reservations for dinner at nice places. One time, he slipped him an extra $20 if he could get us tickets to the Red Socks game (over and above the cost of the ticket’s). We had the BEST seat’s, right behind the home plate. Dad wanted to impress his freind’s at MIT, who realy would NOT know a baseball from a Soccer ball, since they are kind of nerdy. I went and dad’s freind’s kept stareing at me, so they did NOT even see much of the game anyway! That was year’s ago, when I was young and pretty. FOOEY b/c I am STILL not married.

      • CPA Lady

        I’d kind of like to see something on here that addresses these sorts of things. An open thread about white collar/”worldly” things people have learned that they didn’t grow up knowing.

    • anon

      It didn’t occur to me to tip a concierge. They’re specifically there to provide you with directions, recommendations, reservations, etc. Totally did not realize that tips are expected. How much are you supposed to tip?

      • LondonLeisureYear

        http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2008-11-11/etiquette-101-tipping-guide – this has it explained by country.

        Basically if they manage to get you Friday night reservations at the hottest restaurant or tickets to a sold out show – then yah you want to tip 20 bucks. If you are asking for directions to the subway or nearest ATM – no you don’t have to tip. Consider how much time and effort it takes them to put in it. If I am having them call for me because I don’t speak the language, but its not a hard reservation to get (they aren’t having to use their super powers as a concierge) then thats about 5 bucks.

      • Anonymous

        The only time I ever ever tipped a concierge was when they got me reservations to an impossible-to-reserve restaurant (The French Laundry). I don’t normally make restaurant reservations through the concierge (OpenTable points for the win), but I don’t tip them when I ask for directions to a particular restaurant or attraction or for recommendations of things to do, and it never occurred to me to do so.

    • BB

      Ugh, okay, so I’ve been totally doing this wrong forever then! I feel awful because I’m usually such a wide tipper (housekeeping, doorman getting me a taxi, 20%+ at restaurants). I just figured this was part of their job like the check in receptionist. And in the specific case I’m asking, it’s getting them to make the reservation because I don’t really speak the language – I mean, I can call up and ask the restaurant if they speak English in the native language before my skills fail me.

  6. anonymous

    Ideas for interview outfits at a creative company (think design, media, arts)? Everyone there wears jeans every day. a full suit will look out of touch. Dress and blazer?

    • Anonymous

      1. Are suits expected in the industry generally, aside from this particular company? If yes, wear a suit. That’s not out of touch, it’s within industry norms.
      2. You don’t plan interview attire based on the day-to-day dress code. Those are different things.
      3. if the company specifically tells you not to go full suit, listen to them. If mentors within the industry (that do hiring) tell you not to go full suit, listen to them. But absent any indication that a full suit is just not done (ignore the company dress code for employees), wear a suit.

      • anonymous

        No, suits are never worn. Guys wear jeans and a blazer to presentations. Industry mentors have told me that suits don’t fly. I am not a lawyer, btw.

    • anon anon armani

      YES. Something with pizazz that shows your own sense of style. Maybe a color that’s not blue/grey/black in the blazer. Maybe a patterned blazer atop a solid colored dress. Or vice versa, patterned dress and solid color blazer. Pick up the colors in a statement bracelet or necklace.

    • Anonymous

      I’m in one of the older, more conservative US-based ad firms in the midwest and if you’re interviewing for account service/client facing, you should be in a suit. If you’re on the creative side/non client facing, they expect you to look the part. For me, this meant all black (cropped pants, silk blouse, black textured blazer) with funky shoes and an unusual bag.

  7. How do you say you don't know how to do something?

    I just graduated from undergrad and have been working at my F500 for 4 months now. On one of the projects I’m involved in the manager is extremely uninvolved, and there is no one between me and the manager who can help. Here, at least in the beginning, analysts are randomly assigned to managers who need help on a given project, and I don’t think he knows that I’m so new. There a few things which he clearly expects me to do, but I don’t know how to. UsuallI just graduated from undergrad and have been working at my F500 for 4 months now. On one of the projects I’m involved in the manager is extremely uninvolved, and there is no one between me and the manager who can help. Here, at least in the beginning, analysts are randomly assigned to managers who need help on a given project, and I don’t think he knows that I’m so new. There a few things which he clearly expects me to do, but I don’t know how to. Usually a second-level analyst or someone would teach a new analyst these things, not the manager himself.
    He has also been incommunicado but I finally have a call with him today after a few weeks of working on this project with only email contact. Any tips on how to handle the fact that his expectations are probably off and say I don’t really know how to do something? This task basically requires institutional knowledge . . . which I don’t have.
    Usually a second-level analyst or someone would teach a new analyst these things, not the manager himself.
    He has also been incommunicado but I finally have a call with him today after a few weeks of working on this project with only email contact. Any tips on how to handle the fact that his expectations are probably off and say I don’t really know how to do something? This task basically requires institutional knowledge . . . which I don’t have.

    • Anonymous

      He may or may not have time to provide you the knowledge. I’d focus on asking about where you need to go to obtain the knowledge. It’s unclear from your question what the nature of the ‘institutional knowledge’ would be. Do you need an org chart? Or history of a file? Do you need a session with the information management person on records keeping? Can you set up that up or does he have to? If he has to set something up , are there forms required? If so, can you pre-fill them to reduce his workload?

    • anonshmanon

      I think you have analyzed the core point, so why not address it head-on? “From the emails we’ve exchanged, I am concluding that I don’t know a couple of things that you expect me to know. The reason is probably that I started so recently and have never worked with X or Y. Is there a second-level analyst that can provide me with some knowledge on X or additional resources I can use to get up to speed on Y?”

    • Ms. Me

      Be pushy. Tell him that you’re new and haven’t completed this type of project before. Before you talk to him, write down a plan of how you think the thing is probably executed and what you’ve been working on- or what the milestones are, at least, and work with him to fill in the missing steps. How will you get from point A to point B? What steps are involved in putting C to production that you may not know about (approvals, testing, whatever)? Are the related process documented and where are those documents? Is there a repository of other examples of this work you can look at for ideas? During your meeting, you should pick his brain to get an overall idea of what your next steps should be and what you should be aiming for. When you don’t understand something, ask why. Set up a reoccurring meeting with him or ask him for suggestions as to who may be able to assist, if he can’t. Perhaps it would be appropriate for him to point you to another more experienced analyst to ask for help. If he avoids you, call him, email him, or if he avoids you to the point where it impacts your ability to do your job, contact the person who gave you the assignment and ask for an additional resource to work with.

      Don’t worry, it’s highly likely that at your level nobody expects you to be able to do much, or do much of anything quickly. Don’t feel bad if you don’t know how to do anything and don’t feel like you have to pretend that you know more than you do. It’s your job to take initiative and figure it out, though.

      • OP

        My meeting with him is soon and this is what I was planning on going for. Glad to hear the confirmation. I’ve done a lot of the preliminary steps so I am not approaching him without anything. Thanks!

    • Coach Laura

      Did you meet any second-level analysts when interviewing? Can you find any through the corporate directory or LinkedIn? If so perhaps reach out and see if they can tell you where to find information. Or ask manager during call to introduce you to them as a sounding board. It sounds like you’ve done what you could. Make sure you regularly communicate your updates plus any roadblocks and be sure to confirm due dates and deliverables.

  8. lsw

    Has anyone tried Long Tall Sally for tights or leggings? Would love to hear your thoughts on quality and how the sizes run.

    • MJ

      Yes, I have. Their tights have ripped almost instantaneously for me the three or so times I have bought them. Always in the cr_tch area, so I think they’re not very well made. I have pretty tiny legs and hips and whatnot–it’s not like I’m wearing the wrong size or squeezing into something to be thinner. They just haven’t held up. Also, the waistband was not gradual–it was very much–“here’s the waistband to my tights!” under clothes.

      I am tall and all legs (35″ inseam), and I like Spanx’s Tight End Tights (or whatever they’re called now). They’re not full-on Spanx, just a smidge more than control top (which I like, because they stay up and have good lines).

      For their leggings–they are super-duper long and not terribly thick. I like them to wear around the house on weekends–they’re pretty stretchy/lose their shape and definitely don’t suck you in. They’re fine, not great, but they are by far the longest leggings I’ve ever had. Their size chart is accurate, but read it–I am an XL in most things, but a L in their leggings.

      Hope this helps.

      • lsw

        Thanks! This is super helpful. I’m about a 34″ inseam but really long from waist to knee so it’s impossible to find tights I don’t hate. I will try Spanx Tight End and see if that works.

        Do you have a leggings brand you like better?

        • MJ

          Athleta, but if you are short waisted, don’t get their mid-rise ones, because they will go up to your b**bs. Just regular-waist Athleta. Yes, more pricy.

          If you live in a cold climate, I am OBSESSED with these pants from Athleta–they are fleece and very close to leggings, but have a tiny flare at the bottom. They are my go-to dog-walking and general hanging out/running errands pants. I live in Boston. It’s cold. They’re pricy and worth every GD penny. They carry them every year, and they always sell out. If you missed them in your size, check back in October or November next year. Seriously…LOVE.

          http://athleta.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=46813&vid=2&pid=257100002
          Polartec Power Stretch Pants.

          They are really flattering and tight in the legs. The best.

        • Anon

          I am also 34″ inseam and high waisted. Spanx tights always fit. For leggings, I have some tall length ones from old navy in a workout type fabric. I recently bought some of the hue leggings and they did a good job of coming up to my waist and not falling down. The leg length was good too. They are very stretchy. I sized up 1 size in them.

          • lsw

            Thanks, everyone! I have a couple pairs of Athleta running tights in tall that I absolutely love, so I am definitely going to check them out. I should have thought of that. I’ll try Hue also and sounds like I’m all in on Spanx tights.

  9. Mickey

    Thinking of replacing our everyday dishes with Corelle. Anything I should know, or any reason to consider a different brand or material? TIA!

    • EM

      We had Corelle dishes for decades and never had a problem, even with lots of small children. However, if and when a dish breaks, it shatters like glass.

    • Moonstone

      I gave up my fancy dishes about 3 years ago and switched to Corelle. Very pleased.

    • Anon

      I did the same a few years ago. My regular dishes were discontinued and after a few years of buying increasingly expensive replacement pieces on eBay and Replacements, I said screw it and bought two four place setting sets of Corelle at target.

      I grew up with Corelle dishes with little green flowers around the rim.

      I can’t believe I have Corelle now! I bought the embossed all-white style and I think it’s very pretty.

      Some sets come with cereal bowls, some sets with cups and saucers. For the sake of practicality I’d go with the cereal bowl version. So a set is 4 dinner plates, 4 breakfast plates and 4 cereal bowls.

      I have not had to buy any single piece replacements. I don’t know how difficult that is. But it’s cheap enough that if I get low on pieces I can just buy another 4 place settings.

      • Anon

        We had the little green flowers too! I don’t think I could go back to corelle, personally. I’ve found my porcelain dishes to be very durable.

    • nutella

      We had Corelle growing up!! Yes, they shatter like glass when they break, but I can’t tell you how many times I dropped a plate and nothing happened. They basically bounced. But our parents never bothered with plasticware for kids; Corelle was their “childproofing.”

      • nutella

        And the corningware casserole dishes with the blue flowers – same parent company – oh memories!!!! Some 25-30 years later, my mom still has her Corelle and Corningware. :)

    • Bonnie

      I’ve had the same plain white Corelle set for 15 years and they still look great. I love that they are lightweight, take up less room and that I have been able to easily buy matching completer pieces over the years. Since the dishes are white, it is easier to change up the look with linens.

  10. How do you say you don't know how to do something?

    I just graduated from undergrad and have been working at my F500 for 4 months now. On one of the projects I’m involved in the manager is extremely uninvolved, and there is no one between me and the manager who can help. Here, at least in the beginning, analysts are randomly assigned to managers who need help on a given project, and I don’t think he knows that I’m so new. There a few things which he clearly expects me to do, but I don’t know how to. Usually a second-level analyst or someone would teach a new analyst these things, not the manager himself.
    He has also been incommunicado but I finally have a call with him today after a few weeks of working on this project with only email contact. Any tips on how to handle the fact that his expectations are probably off and say I don’t really know how to do something? This task basically requires institutional knowledge . . . which I don’t have.

    I’ve been freaking out because I feel overwhelmed and also hate talking on the phone, but I now realize that I’ve actually made a good amount of progress for having 0 guidance whatsoever, and that I haven’t done anything wrong.

    • JuniorMinion

      Don’t freak out. It is normal to feel this way in a new job. I would approach it like this:
      1) Make a list of what you have accomplished so far on the project to guide your conversation
      2) Make a list of what you think remains as to do items – on the phone – confirm with manager that he agrees. This is also a good time to flag areas where you think you might need guidance on how to proceed.
      3) Rather than saying “I don’t know how to do this” say something like “Manager, given this is my first [project x] is there someone that I should reach out to when I have questions on processes / minor project items?” He will either respond to this by saying a) come to me for everything b) Say something like “person y would be a great resource for you”

      My guess is he goes with 3b) – this will give you an opportunity to go introduce yourself and build a bridge with person y – something like “hey y, Manager mentioned you were an expert at chocolate spout teapots – I’m Suzie Q newbie and just wanted to introduce myself as Manager said you are the go-to for questions on chocolate spouts and I’m currently working on my first spout project”

      Additionally, I can’t stress this enough but overcommunicate (or what feels like overcommunication vs. student days). It will feel weird at first, but it helps smooth the wheels for you and makes sure things stay on track / task.

      Good luck!

    • Anonymous

      Is there an admin in whom you can confide? Maybe the manager’s assistant who can show you the ropes?

      Failing that, just ask him your questions and don’t apologize.

  11. Dress code question

    This might seem elementary, but humor me: What’s the dress code definition or description for an office environment where men where suits and ties, and women wear a bit of everything including non-matching blazers with dresses or pants; sheath dresses and cardigans; nice sweaters and skirts, etc? I can’t quite put my finger on it and am struggling to update my wardrobe to fit in. Is this just straight up business casual, or is there another word for it?

    • Anonymous

      I would say the women are business casual (or perhaps “the business end of business casual” if you want to make it clear that they look polished and pulled together)and the men are business formal. I’m a bit confused why women don’t wear suits or at least suiting separates if the men are in suits and ties. Cardigans, etc. seem too casual for a workplace where the men are in suits and ties.

        • Anonymous

          why though? why isn’t it business casual and the men are overdressing because they’re too lazy to not default to suits?

          • lsw

            Yeah, this is our office – not every guy wears suits but most do, it’s more of default/leave your coat on your chair kind of thing. Definitely women are not underdressed if they aren’t in suits. I guess it’s a “know your office” situation but it’s not odd at all at our office.

          • lawsuited

            +1 In my office the men are actually wearing dress pants, a dress shirt and a tie during the day while leaving the jacket in their office. I have a jacket in my office too if I needed to wear it for any reason, so I think my combinations of pants/blouses/jackets/dresses/cardigans is in the same dress code.

        • Anon

          This. If the men are in suits and ties, then the women need to step up their game to suit-equivalent.

          • Anonymous

            Why? If it was the opposite, would you be telling OP that the men need to start wearing suits? More likely that you’d be telling OP that the women are overdressed and don’t need to wear full suits. There’s nothing to suggest that the women are inappropriately dressed.

          • Anonymous

            It’s not that the women are inappropriate (that would involve tassels and lucite heels), but that the men are in suits (which I take it to be the dress code) and women aren’t wearing the female equivalent (also suits).

            If the dress code isn’t suits/business formal, then the men are just dressing up. But IMO, no one except fossil-aged male partners wears suits unless they have to. The dry cleaning / pressing / ties are an expensive nuisance.

        • anon

          Ime only very junior women wear suits everyday, and it’s definitely a marker that they’re very junior and don’t know how to dress yet. Separates, an impeccably cut dress, and a really nice blouse or sweater without a jacket are all acceptable in a business formal environment.

          • TheElms

            Depends on the country. Outside the US I think this is try, especially in the UK. In the US this is not true at all.

          • Anonymous

            Sounds like “don’t know how to dress yet” also may be “don’t have the money for a wardrobe with many clothes that are ‘impeccably cut’or ‘really nice’ and are just trying to get by in appropriate workwear”.

        • NYNY

          If this is the culture, then the women are not inappropriate.

          In the hospitals I’ve worked in, women in management and above generally wear a range of business attire, including full suits, blazers or cardigans with non-matching dresses/pants/skirts, or just dresses or nice blouses with pants or skirts. The men at the same level mostly wear suits, but rarely keep their jackets on unless they are meeting with senior leadership. For the most part, the women not in suits look better dressed than the men.

        • Edna Mazur

          This is our exact dress code though. Men in suits, jackets on if away from desk. It specifically states, in writing, women can wear sweaters, cardigans, blouses with sleeves, etc.

          But agree, men are definitely business formal and women are on the business end (usually) of business casual.

      • anon

        Are you really confused? Let me offer some ideas. When I wear a suit jacket, it sits right up against my arm pits, because most shirts made for women don’t have sleeves (which is obnoxious). Even those that do have thinner and/or nicer fabrics than men’s dress shirts. Further, women don’t have the added benefit of wearing an undershirt. The result is sweat on my suit jacket all day every day, resulting in an absurd dry cleaning bill and general grossness. Plus, its uncomfortable.

        Cardigans or sweaters/skirts or a sheath dress with sleeves eliminates that.

        Second problem. Suit skirts are designed to fit closely. I find the feeling of a suiting skirt on my body wildly uncomfortable when all I’m doing is sitting at my desk and working (no, they’re not too small). Why suffer and distract myself when I could wear a classy, modest, professional looking sheath dress? Must be nice to be a man and come in to the office with loose wool pants. If I did that, it would look like showing up in pajamas.

        Finally, let me talk about heels. Must be nice for men that their “business formal” shoe isn’t likely to cause them foot problems at worst or crunch up their toes and mess with their tendons at best. I do a number of physical activities that are impacted by spending all day in heels. Not thrilled with the expectation that I need to hobble myself just to please my colleague’s arbitrary aesthetic ideals.

        My former law firm was like what OP describes. I think that women appear very formal when they wear full suits-whereas for men (especially more senior partners), it just looks like a normal day in the office. I think that the quality, fit, and overall presentation of your clothing is much more important when considering a vague dress code like this rather than the specific nature of the item you’re wearing (unless you’re in court/huge client meeting).

        • HSAL

          This is brilliant. I was leaning towards men being overdressed out of laziness/fewer options but I love how you broke it down.

        • OP

          This is great. It is complicated, for all the reasons mentioned. But I am learning that the “quality, fit, and overall presentation of your clothing is much more important” than whatever the vague code is is so true. It’s hard to break old habits or rules you thought you knew though (suits on men = suits on women), which is why I think I’ve been struggling with this.

          I’m going to try to place more value on quality rather than the relative formality of the article of clothing going forward. Project for the year!

          • SD

            So true. Obviously it depends on the environment, but I think in a business setting, sleek dark wash jeans, a lovely blouse, and a high quality blazer with your hair in a chignon looks much more professional and pulled together than an off-the-rack suit. So much is presentation and personal style.

          • Anonymous

            What?? No way. There is no universe in which jeans, however expensive and tailored, look more professional than a cheap suit. More fashionable perhaps, or maybe even more pulled together, but not more professional.

          • lawsuited

            And I’m not sure that off-the-rack suit means cheap suit, either. I don’t have any couture or bespoke suits, and I think they’d all look more professional than even those most awesome of jeans.

          • SD

            I see what y’all mean. I mean like an unstylish, somewhat ill-fitting suit, compared to a really pulled together, impeccable outfit that has some more casual pieces in it. But it totally depends on the industry. I’m in sales so looking ‘pulled together’ has more weight than formality, depending on the situation.

        • Sarabeth

          Yeah, can I just say that it should not ever be a requirement that women wear heels to match a dress code. Heels are bad for all our feet, and can be cripplingly painful for people with any number of foot problems. Formal flats should always be acceptable.

        • full of ideas

          I think it is BS that women have to wear heels to be “business formal.” I refuse – yes, even to court. Has not been an issue yet (that I know of anyways!) – who’s with me??

    • Anonymous

      Just business attire.

      Where I work men wear either full suit/tie or non-suit blazer with pants and open collared shirt (not polo). Women wear a mix of full suits or blazer with dress/pants/skirt with occasional pants/skirts with nice sweaters/blouse mixed in. Corporate section tends to be dressier than litigators (when not in court).

    • anon

      It’s business attire and the women are dressing more or less appropriately. Women have a broader range of “business” options than men. Women only have to wear suits to be court- (or similar level of formality) appropriate, not for general office wear. Cardigans and sweaters veer into business casual territory unless they’re very structured and/or high quality, but suiting separates are fine for women in a business formal environment. Men must wear suits because separates for men generally are not designed to be as formal as separates for women are. Ime (biglaw litigation) most men think of a nice dress as a suit equivalent. Probably because men wear suits at all kinds of formal occasions where women are in dresses.

    • Anon

      If the men are wearing suits and ties, the dress code is business formal. There probably isn’t a different dress code for women. There is just more variety of what women can get away with and still look dressy enogh for work. I’ve been doing it for 30 years and no one has caught on yet!

      • Anonymous

        Right?! When I get asked art what it is like to be a woman in my male dominated industry, my answer is usually that I usually have a wider variety (and mostly more comfortable) selection of clothes than my counterparts.

    • TorontoNewbie

      I find this weird at my workplace as well. Dress code is suits + tie but a lot of women are wearing what I would classify as business casual. Dress pants + cardigan level. I generally just wear a suit – maybe it does mark me as very junior as anon @11:08 suggested.

    • Coach Laura

      I would aim for “smart business casual”. Even if not client facing I’d wear something that wouldn’t look out of place if a senior manager walked in and called an emergency meeting. To me, this means structured cardigans, non-matching suits and dresses with thoughtful accessories but nothing slouchy or casual like a crew necked sweater and non-dress pants.

    • DC Anon

      This is my office and HR refers to the dress code as “business.” I tend to wear a sheath dress with sleeves and then I’ll put on a blazer for meetings.

  12. Bri

    Looking for recommendations on home/kitchen decor-type items. I’d like to buy a few gifts like salt/pepper shakers, garlic keeper, canisters, things of that nature as gifts. Looking for the style of Anthropologie, but I’m not loving those patterns right now. Any suggestions? Thank you!

    • Veronica Mars

      Cost Plus World Market. They have anthropology-esque stuff but much more affordable.

      • Anon

        Second World Market. They have the same kind of stuff as William S or Sur La T but at much less of a markup.

        If you’re buying for someone who’s really into cooking, tools from OXO good grips are usually the best. They’re not necessarily the cutest but they are all really well thought out and do the job.

    • Anonymous

      Blue Apron has a nice “store” section on their web site.

      Also +1 for Cost Plus.

  13. SD

    Brand new hire who’s been buddies with the owners of my company for decades got wasted by 3pm of his second day on the job and proceeds to sexually harass and even implicitly threaten no fewer than 4 women, myself included, grill men and women about their ethnicity, and drop the n-bomb multiple times. He’s getting off with a verbal warning and a note in his HR file and he has to apologize to each of us. I trust he’s going to be closely watched and that it won’t be tolerated again, but at what point should something be “zero tolerance” and get someone fired immediately? Should I protest the result or keep my mouth shut? It seems obvious that he has no regard for women at all, and I’m also in a role where there are many happy hours and I will likely need to work closely with him in the future.

    • Anonymous

      This guy probably won’t around for too long. But if threatened, I’d just call 911 and be done with it. WTF.

      • Anonymous

        We had a guy like this. I didn’t feel one bit bad telling the managing partner that if it ever happened to me, I’d be calling the police, not going to HR, and how would they feel having that officially noted (and probably being in Above the Law)? It never came to that, but I’m surprised that they’d be OK taking the risk to their reputation by even associating with him.

    • MJ

      Is this horrifying? Yes, absolutely. However, I feel like a person who has the judgment he did will crash and burn in no time. But I would be vocal about it _IMMEDIATELY_ if he’s out of hand again. And he will be, so you really just have to wait and then watch the flameout.

      • Anonymous

        + 1

        And when you report it, make sure to emphasize that it’s the same kind of thing – “Remember what Bob did last Tuesday, well he did it again. Details.” Remember what Bob did two weeks ago and again on last Thursday, well he did it again. Details.” Don’t let them pretend that each incident is a one off thing. If he couldn’t keep it together through two days of work, I would be shocked if there are not more incidents.

      • OP

        You’re right. Thanks for your perspective! I have a feeling they’re probably trying to find a back up now so they’ll be ready to replace him when it happens, and it’s a tough skill set to find. I also think I’ll have a talk with the owners about everything just to make sure I feel like we’re all on the same page, and I think they’ll be open to that.

    • anne-on

      WTF? Seriously? I’d complain to HR and let them be known you felt (rightfully!) personally threatened. If they’re aware you (and others) have good grounds to file against the company maybe they’ll can him faster.

    • Anon

      What kind of industry are you in where “wasted by 3pm” while at work isn’t grounds for termination in and of itself?

        • OP

          Cyber security. It’s a weird industry. It’s obviously not acceptable to be wasted by 3pm, but there is definitely a huge huge drinking culture (so most of my colleagues have been pretty drunk with each other and also with clients, who often become drinking/golfing buddies), and there’s also an oddly sketchy undercurrent because many of the most renowned engineers only end up going corporate in their late 20s/30s after they run into trouble with 3-letter agencies in their teens and 20s. This new hire falls into that category, and his criminal background (and apparently lingering criminal connections, as he drunkenly informed all of us) paradoxically make him both more of a liability and more valuable.

          I do think the big drinking and pseudo-criminal culture of the industry makes the incident less of an immediate deal-breaker. I do have faith that the leadership at the company will have my back and protect me, and I also think they’re hard up for this guy’s skill set so they’re trying to make it work so we don’t lose deals, which I can appreciate as someone whose paycheck directly depends on those deals.

          I think I’ll write out my thoughts and have a good conversation with the owners of the company about my experience and what I need from them now to feel safe with this guy as my colleague. One of the things he said to me was that my job was super easy as a ‘pretty girl’ because all I need to do is flirt with clients, which first of all is inappropriate, but also deeply offends me as a professional who works hard for every single deal, so I want this straightened out from the top.

          • Anonymous

            My first thought was oh, he must be a turned hacker. Good luck, this is terrible.

          • Anonymous

            Anon at 1:44 p.m. here. I am not in the cyber security industry per se, but deal with it in some sense at my job. It’s also fascinating to me personally, so I read a lot :)

  14. meme

    I need to go to a brick-and-mortar store, today or tomorrow, for a fancy law firm holiday party dress. Knee length. Don’t want to show too much skin for coworkers. All the standard US stores are available, though Nordstrom is about a 40 minute drive. Any suggestions where would be the best place to go, or, better yet, links to options? I don’t need the perfect thing, I just need something!

  16. anon

    any recommendations for slips to wear under dresses? I’ve never worn one before, so I don’t really know what I’m looking for. And I’m 5′ 1″, so not too long.

    • Shopaholic

      I have a slip dress from BCBG and I really like it because it’s shorter. I’m in Canada though so apparently we don’t have the Gap Body slips which are supposed to be awesome.

    • Aurora

      I’m 5’1 and swear by slips. If you just want comfort and an extra layer to prevent panty lines, I have a couple jersey chemises that I got off Amazon that I swear by. My favorite is the Honeydew Intimates Women’s Sweetheart Chemise, which is out of stock, but Calvin Klein, Eberjey, and other brands make things very similar.

      For more shaping/smoothing, I love both the Spanx open bust slips (so you can wear your own bra), or something like the Spanx Colorblock Slip for a more traditional lingerie feel.

  17. Anonymous

    How do you keep presuming positive intentions when a friend continues to push MLM products on you. First it was a friend selling Rodan Fields then it was the Beachbody thing and now it is the same friend shilling her other friend’s Arbonne.

    I keep saying no and have even declined to meet to hear the “no pressure” pitch. It gets exhausting saying no all the time.

      • Anonymous

        +1 – “Friend, I’m not interested in this type of marketing, and would rather not hear any more pitches, regardless of the product. “

        • anon

          Devil’s advocate – as a former salesperson, though not for an MLM, it can be hard to turn it off even when you’re socializing. If OP’s friend really believes in her product, it’s natural that it’s going to come up in conversation. Is it possible that friend is genuinely excited to share her products, not trying to be a pushy salesperson?

    • Anonymous

      She doesn’t have good intentions. Her intention is to get you to buy stuff. If saying no is exhausting, ignore her requests. The way you would any aggressive salesperson.

    • meme

      “Thank you for the offer, but I have a policy against buying from MLM companies. Do you have any fun weekend plans?”

    • ace

      “I’m glad you’re excited, but I’m not interested in X.”
      If she keeps pushing: “I appreciate that you are very excited about X and it’s worked for you, but this isn’t in my budget. Could you please stop asking me about it?”
      There’s probably another level of statement addressing the fact that it is her third MLM scheme (scam) but that seems like a nuclear option that might harm the friendship.

      • Anonymous

        IME the MLM people are not people I want to be friends with…usually other drama and weird boundary issues.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t know… I have a few friends who sell it who are otherwise nice, stable people.

        • ace

          My friends who sell MLM (and I do have several) either take the first hint or just aren’t that aggressive/pushy. If you need to go nuclear, it probably is not someone you want to be friends with.

    • Anonymous

      I’m mean but I’d probably tell her once in no uncertain terms that I like her but I have no interest in buying products I don’t need from MLM companies and if she wants us to continue to have a friendship, she needs to accept that and stop trying to turn me into a customer. And if nothing changed after that, I’d back away from the friendship.

      • anonshmanon

        this. If you have only rejected individual offers so far (and in order to keep the peace you have made excuses instead of saying flat out no), then she will ask again and again. You need to have The Talk.

      • Anonymous

        when people tell me they are doing MLM, I immediately tell them I don’t buy this stuff before they even get to the sales pitch. I then ignore any subsequent comments about their business. What I find even worse than the sales pitch is the bragging about how much money they make by selling starter kits or whatever.

    • Anonymous

      I had this happen too. Turns out the friend wasn’t such a great friend when I ceased to become a sales prospect.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      They totally look like an amazing neutral to me! The only thing is that sometimes short boots can hit people at funny spots on their ankles, so the ideal height of the booties really depends person to person. So its a try it on type thing, but to me they seem like they would be great with tights and a skirt or with jeans or with trousers!

      • Anonymous

        Definitely try on, especially if you haven’t tried on a lot of ankle boots recently. After trial and error, so many seemingly cute boots have become “no”s on sight for me after seeing shaft height and ankle opening size.

        I don’t like the style myself, but I don’t think you would look frumpy. Also in my 20s.

    • Calico

      I love them. And I agree with LLY that they would look fantastic with skinny jeans or trousers.

  19. cdn sydney

    Looking for advice re a place to meet for a vacation next summer for 1 week. 4 families who live in northeast (2) southwest (1) and UK (1). 14 in total including 7 kids ranging from 5 to 17. Looking for a place where we can spend time together vs being on the go all the time although we will have to have activities for the kids.

    Any favorite spots you would recommend?

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Traverse City, Michigan Area!

      UK family can fly directly to Detroit and drive up from Detroit. Everyone else could fly into Traverse City.
      Its on the Eastern Time Zone so only 5 hours different for UK family verse 8 if you were on the Pacific Time Zone
      You can get a cabin and just spend all your day on the beach or in the water. They have huge cabins to rent where all of you could find a space. If you want an outing go to Mackinac Island, Sleeping Bear Dunes, go to a concert at Interlochen, go to a Beach Bums game (minor league baseball) go to the Cherry Bowl Drive in Theater…so many options!
      I highly suggest looking for a cabin near Elk Rapids.
      Sugar sand beaches, fudge, cherries, Moomers ice cream, petosky stones… What more could you want?

      • Nessie

        +1

        I got married up in northern Michigan, just down the road from the Cherry Bowl, and my grandparents rented a giant cabin on Crystal Lake. Most of my aunts, uncles and cousins stayed there. I think there was enough room for about 14 people.

        Lake Michigan will be warmest in August, so the swimming will be best then.

        Cherry Republic in Glen Arbor has excellent Cherry everything, but especially cherry pie.

      • Compote

        We used to go to Door County annually for a big family celebration, it was always so fun! Check out the outdoor theatres.

      • LawDawg

        I absolutely love Door County and go every year, but it’s not easy to get to. If everyone was a little closer, I would heartily recommend, but not for OP.

    • Anon

      I haven’t been there but a colleague rents a house on the beach in North Carolina every summer for his entire far flung family and everyone seems to love it.

    • Anonymous

      If you are not too snobby – Myrtle Beach. You can rent an entire house or separate condos in the same beachfront building. There are plenty of activities for kids.

    • Anonymous

      Maine. Acadia/Bar Harbor area if you’re up for a bit of a road-trip (since I would recommend you, especially the international people, fly into Boston) or the Portland/Kennebunk area if you don’t want a long drive.

  20. Anonymous

    Gifting help please!

    First, can someone link me to the recent thread with stocking stuffer suggestions?

    Second, I’m drawing a blank for my fiance. I already got him one small present (a felt pocket thing that hangs over his side of the bed where he can put magazines, etc. since he doesn’t have room for a bedside table). Now I want to get him a second, larger gift (budget=~$100-150). He doesn’t need any gadgets that I know of. Doesn’t need more sweaters, or booze. I don’t want to get him a watch, because we’re getting married in February and my plan is to get him a really nice watch for that occasion (more in the $500 range). Any ideas? TIA!

    • j

      Hey – can you share the details of your felt pocket thing? I don’t have room for a bedside table either!

      • Anonymous

        for fun he plays lacrosse (but not frequently and he already has everything he needs for that) and plays piano/keyboard in a band (but I don’t have the budget to upgrade his keyboard unfortunately).

        • lawsuited

          Would he like the sheet music for other music he enjoys so he can play it himself?

    • anon

      If you’re in the US, American Homebrewer Association membership. You get discounts at lots of bars and restaurants.

      Decanter and glass set

      A good wireless speaker

      • anon

        +1 for Bluetooth speaker We got a UE Boom based on recommendations here and have been very pleased

    • lsw

      What about a couple of magazine subscriptions to fill up that caddy? Is there a lacrosse or music magazine he might like? We’ve been subscribing to Rolling Stone for years, great overall reporting and a good bathroom magazine TBH. Maybe nice casual/sleep pants? I’m a theme present giver, if you can’t tell.

      • Anonymous

        thanks for the suggestions! He has a bunch of cozy pajama pants (all given by me previously haha) and he has a subscription to GQ and Rolling Stone. I’ll definitely look into a lacrosse magazine tho…

      • Anonymous

        I got my fiance tickets to Cirque du Soleil last Christmas and it was a big hit!

  21. Outfit SOS!

    My office holiday lunch is Friday. It starts at noon and rolls into an all afternoon/into the night thing. The last 6 years it’s been holiday-y office attire (sheath dress, velvet blazer, etc). They just announced that this year it’s casual/jeans.

    I’m in the middle of fertility treatments that are sucking the life out of me and causing me to gain probably 10-15 lbs recently. All of my cute, casual silk-y shirts are a smidge too tight. The men, which comprise the wide majority of the office, are inevitably going to be in jeans with button downs and vests/sweaters (think casual Brooks Brothers). I have Loft and Banana Republic at my fingertips between now and Friday. Help!!

    I have dark jeans and riding boots as a starting point. I don’t want anything that I have to tuck in or that is tight to my body. I’m so in the dumps about my looks overall these days that I’m totally uninspired and dreading this. Anyone want to shop for me??

  22. Carrots

    So I asked last week about long johns for my BF, but want to get him something else to go with it. I was thinking of doing something like a night in gift, with candy and popcorn for movies, but he’s not really a candy and popcorn guy, though he is a movie guy. So any recommendations for a DVD set that I should look for to include? His movie tastes seem to be wide, but I haven’t had a chance to scope out what he already has in his collection.

    • anonshmanon

      get a popcorn bucket for the presentation, but put snacks inside that he’d enjoy. Chips, nuts, craft beer? Or gin and tonic. The right DVD will be hard to find. Gift him a Netflix/Amazon Prime subscription?

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Not to be mean but are people buying DVDs anymore? Isn’t that what netflix/amazon/hulu/itunes are for?

      I guess I don’t see the point in investing in a DVD set when that technology is very soon going to be like VHS.

      Other night in ideas:
      -Good Slippers
      -Nice blanket throw for his couch
      -Whirly Pop popcorn maker
      -a good bottle of alcohol and a pair of drinking glasses to drink from while watching movies
      -Fun craft beers or speciality sodas
      -wool socks to go with the long johns
      -A board game for the two of you to play
      -A jigsaw puzzle if he is that type of person
      – new deck of cards and poker chips
      – really nice hot chocolate mix and alcohol to spike it
      – a list of movies you think he would be interested in

        • Anonymous

          Ahem, I love you Godzilla but Bryan Cranston getting killed in the first reel? Not cool.

      • Anonymous

        I still like movies on DVD. We don’t pay for Netflix or Hulu since we have cable and anyway a lot of my favorite movies and old TV shows are not available on those streaming services. I like being able to watch my favorites whenever I want, and I have DVDs I’ve watched 20+ times so if I rented them every time I wanted to see them I’d be broke. I’m not saying DVD technology will never become obsolete, but it’s different from VHS. Musicians still release CDs and there’s no indication they plan to stop anytime soon, and CD readers can read DVDs too. Video game systems like Xbox can read them too, and I don’t see that changing soon.

        • Anon

          Just so you know- You can buy the movies on Amazon to always stream them, not just rent.

          I agree about saying no to DVDs, but I don’t have a TV, can’t think of the last time I watched a movie over again and only watch top 3 hours of TV a week so it could just be a personality thing.

          However, I bet video gaming equipment will stop coming with DVD compatibility in the next year or so. It’s all going to be through the cloud and online accounts. Just like how laptops no longer have CD drives.

      • Carrots

        These are all great ideas – thanks all! He does have a large collection of DVDs and Blu Rays, which is why I think a DVD set would be a safe choice, but I also like the craft beer/alcohol idea.

    • anon anon armani

      we have a large collection of dvds; no wi fi

      These are all unlikely to be in a millennial’s collection

      Twilight Zone complete episodes

      for humor – Johnny Carson Tonight Show or Carol Burnett shows

      Northern Exposure series

      If he likes the new Hawaii 5-0 might have the tv series on DVDs now

      Check out PBS and Discover/Science channel dvd offerings

      National Geographic also has some if he is into science, wildlife etc.

      Don’t know if Dirty Jobs, Mythbusters are on DVDs yet

      Turner Classic Movies and Movies Unlimited web locations allow you to search by director, star actor/actress, and genre.

      Star Trek all three series of shows

        • anon anon armani

          Yeah. I was talking about the three season of the original tv series!

          No. No wifi. Too concerns with security issues. Cannot explain without outing …

          Yeah, we manage to live without wifi just fine. Really.

    • rosie

      How about the movie Shooter? For DVD sets: Better Off Ted (workplace comedy), Arrested Development, SNL “Best of” various actors/actresses.

      Also, my SO would be disappointed if I gave him a “night in” gift that did not include something that I would be wearing during/after the movie…just saying.

    • Anonymous

      My movie recommendation: The Other Guys-comedy with Will Ferrell and Mark Walberg. On TV twice this week, it’s a cop movie which is very funny (and bonus points, it’s not very mainstream so maybe he hasn’t seen it!)

  23. Anias Nin

    I’ve never read any Anias Nin and I love some of her quotes that I see floating around. Where should I start if I want to dig in? Her diaries?

  24. Anon

    Feeling so inadequate. A college friend (from 10-12 yrs ago) reached out and we’re supposed to grab drinks. We went to an undergrad b school where success is expected. He’s wildly successful in ibanking – already a managing director, you see his deals being reported in the WSJ routinely. The other friend owns her own hedge fund – it’s legit – 100+ employees, millions under management etc. And then there’s me – did well enough in undergrad; went to a top 10 law school; only lasted in biglaw for a few yrs as I just wasn’t that good at negotiating the politics of it and landed in a role where a JD isn’t even required. Even I think this role is “beneath” me so I’m not even sure how I’m supposed to spin to them that I’m doing what I want – bc I’m not. Not to mention I probably make 1% of what they make. While I hope we wouldn’t just talk about work – these are 2 very blunt people – they will say you’re doing X, why?! They aren’t the – whatever makes you happy – types. And I feel like a loser saying – it’s the only job I could find and now I’m stuck – bc they are the types where the world really is their oyster. Thoughts?

    • Anonymous

      Why not be honest? They’re friends, they’re not there to feel better than you. It sounds like you really aren’t happy and maybe they’ll have ideas.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      1) You don’t have to grab drinks with them unless you want to
      2) The rest of their life could be a shambles? Most people who seem to have it all are ducks. Calm on the surface, paddling madly under the water.
      3) If you want to go, just come up with some things that you are happy about and think are going well in your life and lead the conversation with that. Talk about hobbies. I bet they don’t have time for anything outside of work and probably will be amazed to hear about any balance in life that you have.
      4) They reached out to you – so obviously they want to hear from you and want to spend time with you and probably don’t really care about your job!

      • Scottie

        +1

        How nice you have friends that reach out to you!

        How nice you have amazingly talented friends that also are great potential network connections!

        How nice you have a good, stable job with a good salary! You are clearly talented and smart to have gotten where you are.

        Stop. comparing.

        Last week I saw a similar old friend that I hadn’t seen in decades, all we talked about was the old days! A few minutes on current stuff, but honestly, no one is really that interested in the details.

        I am the one with the totally amazing CV that leaves friends intimidated. But you know what? My private life is in utter shambles… from the relationship (none and no guys under the age of 70 have approached me in more than a decade), personal (terrible anxiety/depression), family (multiple deaths/severe illness/disability/economic hardship) and job insecurity with financial pressure.

        You never know.

        So don’t be a Debbie Downer. Just go an reminisce, ask them a lot of questions about their lives, and be enthusiastic and a good friend. Blow off talking about your job if you want… “I’m doing blah blah blah, but I’m not too excited about it these days. But it certainly is exciting to hear about YOU so tell me more!” And talk about what YOU like about your life. There has got to be something!

        It works every time.

        And if it doesn’t, and these people start critiquing you and making you feel bad, well my dear, they actually are not your friends.

    • anon

      I am your friends in this situation. I would want to know why you’re there -it’s the only job you could find and now you’re stuck. If it’s really not what you want, I would want to help you get un-stuck if that’s within my ability at all. I like being able to leverage myself and my network on the behalf of people I like.

      • DC Anon

        Yes, exactly this. If you have any interest in leaving your job, they may able to help you brainstorm and then connect you with some others in their network. That would absolutely be something I’d want to do for my friend.

    • anon

      They want to grab drinks with you because they like you. I’m sure they don’t give a crap about what you do for a job. Remind yourself of this. They like you because you are you.

      • Anon

        +1 to this. If they’re really your friends, they don’t care how successful you have or haven’t been. They want to see you because they like you. If you’re unhappy professionally, maybe they can help you consider other options or make introductions on your behalf, but it doesn’t have come up in detail unless you want it to.

        I would meet with them and if it turns into a professional brag-fest, make a mental note and figure out how to handle any future invitations from them.

    • nutella

      Yeah if they are your friends be honest with them. If they are not your friends, why bother with trying to impress these people you went to college with at the expense of yourself?

    • Anon

      Isn’t it likely they already know what you do at least generally — given LinkedIn and all? They likely aren’t asking you to hang out bc of your job. I’m not suggesting it couldn’t be a professional bragfest – but sometimes people want to hang out with old friends bc of the shared history; sure they’re hedge fund managers now — they weren’t when you were 22. They may want a break from the responsibilities of being a hedge fund PM and worrying about mortgages and private schools etc. and for an hr go back to the days when it was all about finishing class at noon and grabbing lunch and hanging out.

    • Anonymous

      Let them know what you want to go into, and see if they have any connections that can help you get there.

    • Meredith Grey

      Are you able to pay your bills? Are you able to dress yourself? Do you have accomplishments that you can point to over the past 10 years? Do your every-day-real-life friends love you? Do you have a place to come home to? OMG I could go on forever. and I’m sure you can answer YES to some of this… Think about all that you have going for yourself in the context of your actual reality, not theirs and not what you think you “should’ve” done. And if that’s not enough to get you through drinks and feel good about it (it’s ok if it’s not), then seriously assess why you’re going and whether it’s something you want to do. Only go if you’ll feel good from it. Don’t go because you might have already agreed to plans or you think it’s “the right” thing to do. You don’t owe it to anyone. Do you.

    • Anon

      So I’m guessing you went to Wharton (or Stern or Sloan) + a top 10 law school and then biglaw + some kind of inhouse now? You aren’t doing badly for yourself AT ALL. How many people REALLY have your type of resume? Just bc they are doing extraordinarily well does NOT mean that you’re doing badly — it’s not a zero sum game. Just keep telling yourself that.

    • Anonymous

      An honest day’s hard work to pay your bills and take care of your responsibilities is beneath no one.

      • Anon

        I get what you’re saying but there’s a reason all the ivy grads out there aren’t looking to bag groceries and work at Home Depot; those are honest days of hard work too, and yet once you go to schools in certain places, your expectations and society’s expectations for you are higher.

    • Parfait

      I have some super high achieving friends I went to school with, too. I used to be really embarrassed about my relative lack of success. But: they don’t care about my job, they care about me. If these folks are your friends, they want to see you because they like you. If you’re not happy in your job, well, that’s true for a lot of people. You can share as much or as little about that as you like, but that is nothing to be ashamed of.

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