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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Lately I've been lusting after Burberry dresses, which seem pricey but unique. Take this color-blocked sweater dress — love the high waist, the mock turtleneck, and even the exposed zipper. Sadly, the belt is not included, but I love the look of it with the dress. It's $1,095 at Burberry (sizes 0-14). Burberry Colour Block Fitted Jumper Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Shopping Advice
Is this dress too much for the office? http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=15284336
My main issue is the neckline (though I am pretty small of chest). Is the dress still too borderline?
Mpls
It feels kind of c*cktail to me. I think it’s the emphasis on the v neck – the ruching and the overlap construction calls attention to that area of the dress. It would feel less c*cktail to me if the neckline was a scoop, cowl neck, or a v neck that didn’t use the overlap construction.
Cat
agree – the combo of the v-neck + ruching + drapey fabric reads c*cktail to me.
preg 3L
I think it would be too c*cktail if your office is more blazers than cardigans, but if you can wear a long sweater over it, that would make it more business casual.
LizNYC
I actually own this dress and it’s very c*cktail — I wore it as a bmaid in a wedding. I’m larger in the chest, but the front was still low and necessitated pinning. It’s really lovely and comfortable, but I’m thinking of wearing it to my company’s holiday party this year rather than actually during a regular workday.
Shopping Advice
Thanks all. Looks like my gut was right. Appreciate the input!
Ellen
Yay! Splurgey Monday! I can’t affor’d it, but it look’s great for those that can! I am posteing from Chapaqua, b/c I am takeing the day off to spend with Rosa and the kid’s! Ed went in to work today, but he think’s Rosa may be pregenant again. Rosa is goeing to the OBGYN today to check it out and I will go with her. The housekeeper will stay home with the baby. I want a baby, and mabye Rosa will now have 3! Yay for Rosa, but I still have to find my man! FOOEY! Speakeing of which, Ed was very nice to me this weekend. I think it is b/c he want’s me to date FRED. Fred is nice enough, but he is realy boring. His family own’s a pet food store (with 2 branche’s) and he is in charge of one of the branche’s. When he came over for dinner on Saturday, I had to carry the conversation. He kept askeing why it was that I was not married and I told him that it was b/c I could not find a guy who respected me for my MIND, not my body. He said I was very smart b/c I was abel to become a lawyer and a partner, and he was kind of a partner b/c his dad is putting him in charge of one of the pet store’s, and he get’s to order inventory for BOTH store’s. He is a littel young for me, but Ed poiented out that women live longer then men and that if we got married, Fred would want to have kid’s right away. I think it was a littel to early to bring up children with Fred, but Ed wanted to make sure that I knew that Fred knew that I wanted children right away. Fred said he sure was willeing to try, and I am not sure what that meant. I told them that I needed to get MARRRIED before I would have children b/c Grandma Leyeh does NOT want me to fool around with men just to have babie’s. Fred understood.
I will check in with the hive later after we get back from the OB/GYN. Mabye I will ask her to look at me to see if I am clear to have babie’s also. If Rosa can do it, so can I. YAY!!!!!!!
Pest
Get a life.
5c case?
Any recommendations for a durable case for my iPhone 5c? My usual go-to, OtterBox is getting bad reviews for this phone. I’m klutzy so I need something that will really protect it. TIA!
meme
I love Speck candy shell. Just as durable as Otterbox, but much more sleek. I have it on the 5 though; haven’t tried 5c. I have 4 small kids, and my phone gets dropped approx. 100 times per day. No problems whatsoever with this case.
mintberrycrunch
+1. I’ve had multiple Speck candy shell cases (because I like different color combos, not because they break/wear out), and I drop my phone all. the. time. Never had an issue (knock on wood).
Aggie
+1 I love my Speck candy shell case. The one currently on my phone is two years old and aside from a few scuff marks, it looks great and my phone is in one piece.
Spider Vein Zapping
I think this was too far down on the weekend thread, so reposting:
I have some spider veins / broken capillaries and a new one is fairly prominent. These aren’t varicose veins and are surface-discolorations that are combinations of red and blue (the rest of me is pasty, so they are pretty visible). I’d like to get the most prominent one removed — is this usually a quick/painless laser fix or something different? Would appreciate any experiences that you can share.
Thank you!
Anon
I had surgery for varicose veins in my 20s (genetically predisposed – no other risk factors). I opted for the surgery because they were painful/uncomfortable all the time. Insurance paid for it. I have a ton of spider veins, too, but I opted not to worry about those. The treatments aren’t super effective and I just decided that, since they were bound to come back anyway and I’d need to continue to have the treatments done if I wanted “clear” legs, I wouldn’t start in on a lifetime train of money out the door to the cosmetic industry.
Anon
Sorry, hit reply too quickly. My understanding is that spider vein treatment requires multiple treatments to be effective but results aren’t guaranteed, and if you are predisposed to them, they’ll just keep coming back.
Frugal doc..
I have them too, but haven’t considered the laser or injection options as of yet. But wearing compression stockings (even low pressure) can help prevent them – especially if you are on your feet a lot.
But if you have a genetic tendency for these, it can be hard to prevent.
Spider Vein Zapping
Thanks! I don’t think I have a tendency for these. Most are on the backs of my legs behind my knees (so I can’t see them, but I know they are there) and are probably from being an ex-mountain biker (lots of leg pushing). The one on the front didn’t exist before I pushed out daughter #2 a few years ago, so I think more aren’t likely and this one hasn’t spread any. I sit in a chair at work.
Hair brained...
How much do you spend on your hair?
I’ll leave product out for the moment, which can add up.
Cut cost/frequency?
Dye/highlight cost/frequency?
Age
Currently I am saving $$ and am skimping, but my prior regimen for long, straight hair.
Cut every 3 months $65-75
Highlight/dye and touch up roots every 6 wks (eeek!) $60-120
I’m in my 40’s
I still don’t feel like I have found the right cut/regimen for me. I look so much better and younger with professionally dyed hair. Many ugly greys in long brown hair look awful, and no one in my workplace my age does not dye.
Anon
Cut every 4-5 months (long curls) – $75 plus tip
No color. I only have a few greys, and they blend pretty well with my light brown color.
Early-mid 30s.
Keratin
I’m your age and have medium brown hair that is maybe 5% gray or less. I got a keratin treatment this summer just around the hairs that would be bangs and it flattened down those grays to the point where they just blend in and seem to be very shiny.
I’d recommend it b/c it cost virtually nothing for that little quantity of hair to get treated and it has lasted about 3 months. If the rest of your hair looks good and it’s just an issue with the grays being wild or having a different texture (the rest of my hair is fine and straight), this might be something that works for you.
I’m in a field where a bit of age / gravitas is a good thing and for years felt like I had to work for that effect (so I’m not letting the grays go — I have earned them and feel like they are an asset).
Anonymous
Color and highlights every 5 weeks – $40 (I have a hairdresser friend that does it for me).
Cut every 10 weeks – $20 (same)
Bang trim every 3 weeks – free
Diana Barry
Cut every 7 weeks (I have a short cut) – $60 plus tip
No color yet – I have 2 grey hairs that I can see.
Mid 30s.
I will definitely highlight when I see more grey.
AIMS
32, cut every 4 months or so, $95 (NYC).
I don’t dye or highlight my hair. But if you’re trying to save money — my mother has been using a natural dye from the healthfood store to dye her hair for the past few years and it looks amazing. Gives her highlights and a really great color. It’s in a green box, I think it’s called Naturetint (I can double check) and is about $9-10. She goes to a very schmancy salon known for its blond highlights for her haircuts and everyone there asks who does her hair because it’s so awesome, natural looking, etc. Maybe give that a shot to see if it works for you?
OG Lawyer
AIMS, you are probably sound asleep by now, and will likely never read this, but I gotta say I thought you were much older. I always look forward to your comments, because so much wisdom usually comes with age. So, you are even more remarkable than I thought.
Woods-comma-Elle
People will, I’m sure, read this in horror, but I spend $10 every 4-6 weeks on dye for my roots and probably the same on special shampoo/conditioner. I trim it myself (a bit past shoulder length) and dye it at home. I’m not a student or otherwise living frugally otherwise, but because I’m so used to this, the idea of spending tons of money (and time) on going to the hairdresser seems odd to me now.
Anon
I have a pixie and get it cut like clockwork every six weeks. Occasionally I splurge on salon color, but usually I color myself with temporary color from Target.
When I had long hair, the professional color was worth it because I found the temporary color faded unevenly, and even permanent home color didn’t look great six months later but it was still visible on my hair. I did get it cut/colored less often than every six weeks, though.
tk1
I color my own hair too, every 6 to 8 weeks. I’ve had it done professionally before and I have never found it that much better to be worth the money. Cut every 3 to 4 months, $50.
ss
I’m 40s with long straight dark hair too, maintained with an inexpensive trim every 3 months. I’m rapidly going white though and hoping to put off coloring for as long as I can help it (hate the thought of yet another standing appointment for non-fun self-maintenance). My mum, whom I resemble, has great success with a mass-market home-use product – L’Oreal or some such – so that would probably be the first thing I try.
NOLA
I have fairly short hair and go to someone who has purposely chosen to work out of a no-frills salon to keep costs down for her long-time customer base:
cut every 6 weeks: $45 plus tip
highlights every three months: $60 (partial highlights – they sufficient cover the few gray hairs I have)
Anita
Cut and color every 6 weeks, $120 (DC). I have very dark, straight hair that I wear in a bob and I’m about 20% gray. Thus, I require maintenance.
Killer Kitten Heels
Short asymmetrical bob with bangs, so I need it cut every 6-7 weeks, and I keep it a dark red (to cover the premature grays that started taking over my head at age 16), so I get it colored every time (stylist alternates between touch-ups and a full color job). It’s $110-$125 for color/wash/cut/dry, plus tip.
I will generally skimp on everything else first before I’ll skimp on my hair – I feel like good hair makes you look instantly put together, and bad hair ruins even the most polished look.
AnonInfinity
This is me, except a different color. Sometimes I fear I spend way too much on my hair, but it really does make me feel more put together.
Angela
Sigh of relief, I was reading the replies of people in NYC and was surprised
I live 90 min north of Toronto in a mid size city(150,000 population) have short hair, 20% grey, cut & colour plus highlights every second or third visit, 4-6weeks aprt depending on my/stylist schedule and pay $140-165
My hair is the only remotely funky thing about me. Lol
I work in a stodgy office of bankers in toronto
AnonInfinity
I should add — I’m not in a place that’s anywhere near as expensive as NYC. I have no excuse other than I like it.
Bursting Out
Same, same. My BFF calls me ‘hair proud.’ What can I do?
$220 for cut/ highlights/ tip on long straight hair in SF Bay Area, every 4 mos. or so. (I skimp by waiting as long as possible in between appts.)
45, maybe 10% grey – I don’t really know as it’s been so long since my hair was its natural color.
Anon
I get my hair cut about every 6 months or so, at $60 a cut in DC.
No color, as I don’t have any visible grays yet, and I like my natural color.
New Girl
25, straight, dark brown hair with too much grey at my roots.
Cut and color every 5-6 weeks $67 plus tip (Upstate NY)
Miss Behaved
Cut and color (highlight and lowlights) every 3 months for $170
I’m 43
My next appointment is on Wednesday and my hair really needs it.
Interrobanged
I have fine-but-thick (in other words, there is a lot of it) naturally wavy hair cut in a mid-length bob with bangs.
Cut cost/frequency? Every 12 weeks or so.
Dye/highlight cost/frequency? Every time I get it cut. Cut + color = $120 or so before tip.
Age? 33
Right now I’m not terribly happy with my haircut OR the color. She went really dark last time and I’m sort of a natural dark blonde. However, I’ve been with her for years and she generally does a very good job. I have no greys and the only reason I color it is because the natural color is kind of blah.
b
Curly, thick, fine hair. Cut 2 or 3 times/year into a shag that grows out into long layers, $35 plus tip in DC (love Gabbie at VSL). Early 30s, don’t color.
OG Lawyer
How can your hair be both thick and fine? Isn’t that an either/or? By “thick” do you mean “lots of”?
anon for this
so interested to see how many people sound like they have hair like mine — wavy, fine hair but lots of it. i get so annoyed when I see people advise wavies to just flatiron/use a curling iron because any implement like that would take me at least an hour because there’s so much of my hair (assuming my arm strength is up for the task). i know, problems.
anyway: 36, NYC. $130 (plus $35 in tips) for cut (no color) every 3-4 months (usually timed whenever I need a blowout). I pay $40 for occasional blowouts if I have big meetings (or big social events) between cuts.
anon-oh-no
depending on the color of your hair, you can try using the john frieda highlight spray (its kinda like a new-fangled sun in, but way better).
I have blond hair and started using it about a year ago. Ive been to two salons since then and both hair dressers were floored that my color was from the john frieda spray. they both said i should just keep doing what Im doing. its three bucks a bottle and the bottle basically lasts all year. way better than the $150 i was spending 3-4 times per year on highlights.
Anon
How does the spray work (ie where do you spray it/what do you do)?
Anonymous
you spray it on wet hair and then blow dry and style. I found the color change was gradual — i used it consistently all over my hair (maybe 2-3 times a week) until i got the desired color. Now, only use it when i feel like it needs a touch-up, and then i basically just spray it on the roots.
This would likely not work on everyone, but if you already have blonde hair and you just want it a little lighter (i.e., as at least for me, my hair got much darker blonde as i got older), this stuff is awesome. its literally saved me hundreds each year — plus it takes 30 seconds to spray on and style as usual, instead of the 2 hours it took each time i needed an appointment at the hair salon.
CKB
Hair cut every 2 months (but sometimes as much as 5 months) or so for $50.
Color every 2 months as well $8 (I do it myself)
Houston Attny
This is pretty much me. My cut is a little more – $65, but I do my color (ammonia free dye). I know that part saves a lot of money.
Senior Attorney
Okay, I’m going to totally wreck the average.
Remember when I posted my monthly minimum “nut” a day or so ago? I didn’t include my very splurgy hair routine. I’m in my mid-50s and fighting the fight against gray, and I am very vigilant about keeping up the color so I don’t have the dreaded white roots. Cut is a between-chin-and-shoulder bob. All prices include tips:
Color touchup every three weeks, $82
Cut every 6-9 weeks, $85
Highlights every 4 months or so, $180
Brazilian blowout when I get sick of blowdry/flatiron routine, maybe twice a year, $300
Total annual cost: Call it about $3,000, or about $250/month average. It’s a lot, but I don’t do mani-pedis or massages and I do love my salon time. I’ve been with this team for years and they’ve seen me through a lot of ups and downs.
Senior Attorney
Oh, I’m in a fairly pricey part of So Cal.
Angela
I wrecked it too, above :)
I think I spend $1600 a year on my hair and maybe another $400 on summer pedis
It’s hard work to be beautiful LOL
Keratin
Senior Attorney: how gray are you (% wise)? If I were in SoCal, pepper with salt could be hard work (so I might to a Gwen Steffani obvious bleached blonde, which I’ve always kinda wanted).
Senior Attorney
Last I checked (brief au naturel experment in my mid 40s) I was about 75% gray, and not in a good way. Just in a “OMG I’m turning into my mother” way.
anon
That’s about what I spend also. I’m 45, covering gray, have very fine/straight hair that really shows a bad haircut.
Nancy Blackett
NYC… I go for balayage blonde highlights every 3-6 months for $300. I switched to balayage as I can actually let my hair grow out and have it not look like I need to get my roots done (no greys yet) – I used to spend a lot more getting foil highlights every 6 weeks ($150).
Haircut every 6 weeks, $30. I go to Chinatown… I have fine, straight hair and never get anything crazy done to it.
My other splurge is eyelash extensions for $120/month. That adds up but I absolutely love them.
Tecan
Do you have a recommendation for balayage in NYC??
Anonymous
I go to Anastasia at Red Market salon (have only been 2x but am very happy with her so far).
http://redmarketnyc.com/salons/new-york/
Pink
Jacqueline at Frederic Fekkai at the Mark Hotel is amazing
Anon
$20 at Supercuts every few months (basically whenever I get around to it) and $15-$20 on shampoo and conditioner from Desert Essence brand every few months. I’m probably going to start going for a better haircut, but only in the under-$40 range. I’m 24 and have no intention of dying my hair and I rarely buy other products since I try to avoid harmful chemicals. I occasionally use a cheap blowdryer, but otherwise, I just wear my hair naturally.
Lady Harriet
Also 24. I have waist-length curly hair with bangs and some shorter layers around my face. Mr haircut is fairly simple, so my mom actually cuts my hair. (She cuts the whole family’s hair, including my dad, from whom she has been divorced since the mid-90’s. My family is weird!) I have my bangs and short layers trimmed about once every two months and the rest trimmed about once or twice a year. I don’t color it.
I use baking soda and apple cider vinegar to wash my hair, as well as oodles of cheap conditioner. I use a tiny bit of olive oil and some cheap hairspray on it when I’m out of the shower. All told, I spend well under $5 a month.
I didn’t set out to have such a crunchy hair routine, but it just turned out to be what works for me. I have more frizz than I’d like, but I haven’t found anything that helps that yet. When I’m more financially secure I may experiment some more.
Another B
How do you do the baking soda/ vinegar? Do you dilute the vinegar? spray it on? and do you suspend the baking soda in water?
lucy stone
Color 2-3 times a year at $75 (I get highlights and lowlights)
Cuts every 8-10 weeks at $20
Orangerie
$65 + tip for a haircut every 10 weeks. I have long, dark brown hair and I don’t dye it so I save a lot on coloring. I do, however, spend a boatload on shampoo/conditioner and various styling products, so it probably evens out and then some.
layered bob
$95 cut, including tip, every 5-6 months.
$250 balayage highlights, every 18 months.
$45 blowout, every 7-8 months.
That’s about $450/year. I have long curly hair that grows verrrrry slowly and between the curls, the slow growth, and the balayage, the grow-out of the highlights/cut is unnoticeable.
Product is where I spend more money. Curls are persnickety.
KS IT Chick
I have chin-length wavy-to-curly medium-to-dark brown hair that is coming in gray much faster than I’d like, and in a patchy way that makes me obsessive.
Cut cost/frequency? I go to the “high end” salon in town, and it is $20 for a wash, cut & style. I go about every 4 to 5 weeks. The salon only accepts cash or check, no credit cards, which is one of the things that helps keep costs down. I usually tip $4 to $5, unless it is around the holidays, then I tip $10.
Dye/highlight cost/frequency? About every 4 weeks, done at home, using an oil-based, non-ammonia permanent color. The color runs about $8/box.
Age? 41. I’ve been graying since I was in my mid-20’s, but it came in in a way that didn’t bother me. Now, it bothers me.
Cornellian
I’m in NYC. I spend 65 + tip every 5 months or so for a haircut, and that’s about it.
I have natural dark strawberry blonde hair, and I have in the past used the John Freida blonde spray or Lush henna in my conditioner to bring out the blonde or red, but it’s pretty negligible in cost and I haven’t for years.
Wildkitten
Cut + Color every 3-4 months, $200 (DC)
ohc
I just went through a very dramatic shift in these expenses, so seeing the responses is making me feel less like a wastrel for now spending what feels like a ton of money on my hair.
From about 2003 until March of this year, I cut my own hair. Mostly I kept it long (very long–typically waist-length), but I did once chop it all into a messy bob. It’s pretty wavy and very healthy, so it hid any imperfections in the cut.
In March, I had 20″ cut off and now have an asymmetrical bob-pixie hybrid. I get it cut every six weeks, for $57 plus tip. I figure the decade that I spent not spending money on haircuts makes it reasonable for me to now have this regular, necessary hair expense. (Although I confess that I didn’t think about it at all before taking the plunge–realizing how much upkeep short hair requires was a bit of a surprise.)
CountC
NoVA – I get cut, color and blowdry every 8 weeks at $120 – 190 + tip a pop. I have two colors, a medium/dark red on the top and a very deep, dark red underneath. Last time she upsold me on coloring my brows without telling me it was an extra $20. That won’t happen again. The times I get a gloss it takes it over $120.
I also spend $60/each on shampoo and conditioner every couple months (conditioner more often). The rest of my products range from drug store to Phtyo. I also have $200 blow dryer and a medium-priced straightener (curly hair that I straighten).
anonymous new admit
My hair is roughly chin-length (cut from shoulder length earlier this year and growing back out). It has some loose curl and is naturally a super-neutral shade of brownish red that doesn’t make me look particularly rested. I use various combinations of henna and indigo to keep the color saturated so it balances my skin tone. The henna relaxes the curl and makes my hair more manageable, and so far it has worked to blend in (or at least distract from) the grays. I’m 31 and the natural color of my hair has really started to become more wishy-washy thanks to the grays.
Haircut cost – $65 (includes $15 tip) approximately 3x/yr
Henna – $30 for a year’s supply of fresh organic powders; also splurged on Lush henna recently for fun
Vitamins – probably about $100/year – I don’t really stick to any particular regimen but pick up biotin when it’s on sale at the local coop and sometimes take fancy pregnancy vites (not for hair reasons, just for trying out brands because will soon be TTC)
anon
I’m 23 and haven’t spent money on a hair stylist in over 1.5 years.
Anon
I overspend out of a desperate hope to get a great cut. I spend $95 plus tip for a cut every 6-7 weeks in D.C. I have a longish pixie for my straight fine hair. I’m 40, never colored my hair.
I haven’t loved my cuts in a while though! I’d been going to Salon 180, now to Immortal Beloved. I feel like I’ve tried everything that Dupont, Georgetown, and the Hill have to offer. Any DC e-t-t-e’s suggest a good stylist for fine, straight hair? It takes a good stylist to give a cute (not-mannish, not-spikey) cut, and I’m searching!
Bonnie
I have a longish pixie and adore Roberto at Bang Verizon. His cuts are about $70 with tip and he is worth it. Every once in a while I color my own hair with a semi-permanent kit.
Silvercurls
Okay, I’ll bring the average down. (This probably won’t be a surprise!) My hair routine is very simple:
Short style–almost a pixie cut, but on 2c/3a curly hair.
Wash-and-wear styling.
No coloring, highlights, gels, or conditioners, but as per recommendations from this site I’ve switched to Trader Joe’s no-sulfates shampoo. I also wear broad-brimmed hats all summer which probably protects my hair somewhat.
My original color was dark brown with some medium brown strands that turned reddish in the summer.
At present I’m approx. 85% steel gray at the temples and forehead; this tapers until I’m merely salt-and-pepper in the back.
Haircuts–no appointment needed–happen every 4-6 weeks at to a suburban Hair Cuttery where all of the staff are pleasant and able to handle, not mangle, my hair. (I had some awful haircuts in the years before people learned how to handle curly hair!)
Haircut & shampoo just went up to $16 and I tip outrageously (total $23) b/c I’m grateful for their consistently good service.
Divaliscious11
Quarterly trip to NY for trim/color – $265ish (haven’t found anyone I like in this place), although it slides depending on my schedule….
I used to use rinse dye when I was relaxed (I am now natural) and $30 a week for wash & set
Desperately need to go now, but need to figure out when I can get away…
AIMS
I love this dress. So, so gorgeous. Maybe I can recreate the look with a high waisted black skirt, olive sweater and black belt….
Junior Varsity Q -- ponte sheath + tights + jacket
I love those ponte sleeveless sheath dresses and wore them a lot this summer (with a cropped v-neck cardigan for at work / indoors)
Can something like the LE one that people love be worn with black tights + a blazer (I have lots of wool ones, which may not be the right fabric, or some cashmere cardigans (my long-sleeved ones all have crew necks))? It is getting cold here, so lots of layering would be in order. I don’t work with enough women to have a good read on this and to know if this is something that people do.
KC
A dress + tights + blazer/cardigan is my winter uniform. Some blazer fabrics don’t look quite right with ponte, but in general a basic black suiting blazer works with most colorful dresses.
Baconpancakes
Kat, btw, I still can’t see most of the second page of the weekend open thread. It reverts to the page when there were 241 comments. I’ve tried clearing cache and browsing history, changed between Chrome, Safari, Chrome for ios 7, Internet Explorer, and tried on a mac, a PC, and an iPhone, and I still can’t see most of the second page.
mascot
I also had trouble seeing any comments posted after Friday night on iPhone or iPad.
Senior Attorney
Same here, on my laptop.
cbackson
Me four.
preg 3L
Same here. I submitted a Tech Problem inquiry, complete with a screenshot!
Baconpancakes
That’s a thing??
…..maybe I should actually read the line of text directly below the commenting box. Ever.
Platinomad
Wise Hive, I have a sort of two-tiered question: When is it ok to date someone at work, and how discerning to be when dating (particularly with people from work)
I am in my early/mid twenties, and have been working in management consulting for a little over a year. I am normally not particularly close with my coworkers (I typically feel awkward really socializing with coworkers), although because we are full time travel, many people are extremely close as we work long hours and practically live together. On my most recent project, I somehow fell into being extremely close with a guy a bit older than me, but at the same level at work. We work on different teams, are at the same level, and are extremely unlikely to ever be on the same team or having any sort of reporting relationship in the case that one of us gets promoted (we both are likely to get promoted to the next level soon). At a work level, would it be extremely inappropriate to get involved with this person from a work perspective? Or is this extremely likely to end up looking unprofessional and end badly? We really rarely see each other throughout the day for work related reasons and have very limited work function overlap.
From that perspective, I sort of think perhaps the issue is how serious I am about this person. As in, it would be worth it to risk the potential work issues if I was sure I was very serious about it, however I am not entirely sure about this person. We spend tons of time together (dinners, lunches, hikes, sitting around watching TV together, grabbing drinks, texting), and I have to admit I do love spending time with him. He likes doing the exact same things as me, we have similar values and priorities, similar family backgrounds, he is very polite and has many wonderful traits. However, there are a few things I already see as sort of likely issues that will probably (maybe?) prevent this from being particularly serious. So perhaps from both a professional as well as personal level, I shouldn’t be getting into things I already see potential issues with.
What do you all think? No dating coworkers? No dating people whom you are not sure about?
Im interested in what I’m sure are your very wise perspectives.
Diana Barry
I think it is fine as long as you have little overlap and little chance that one of you will be the supervisor of the other.
If you see things that are likely to become issues now, can you explore those a little more so that you can figure out whether you want to continue dating him? (Unclear whether you have been physical or not at this point…)
I dated a co-worker (summer associate position) the whole summer we worked together plus more, and it was fine. We never mixed work with personal life (PDA, emails, etc.), and we were in different departments so if we had both been at the firm long-term, we wouldn’t have crossed paths in the event of a breakup.
Anon MC
I’m an ex-management consultant, and I think it depends on 1) your firm’s culture and 2) are you prepared to take the emotional consequences if things go south?
At my very large firm, there was quite a bit of same-level dating. There was also some 1-level removed dating and these were both fine. The “scandal” dating was when you have the fresh out of college dating a 40-something partner. Other than that, it was pretty well-accepted and embraced (we worked 80 hour weeks together after all). You just had to tell HR you were dating so there were no conflicts of interest in staffing.
Some of these couples were successful (i.e. they got married/lived together long term). Others were not, and you’ll have to be prepared for quite a bit of emotional stuff if yours does not pan out. You will see/hear about this person a lot. You will have to put your emotional baggage about them behind if you need to make work decisions about them. The whole office will know you broke up. You will have to still go to the same work social events. If you’re prepared to deal with that, then go for it.
Orangerie
+100 to your last paragraph. Breaking up and having to see/hear about that person constantly is the absolute worst. I wouldn’t wish that hell on anyone.
Anon
It’s perfectly fine to date people who work at your company as long as you don’t currently work directly with them (and don’t have definite plans to do so in the future) and as long as you’re not in each other’s reporting chains. It’s a very common way to meet your SO.
Anon
I didn’t date at work in my 20s b/c I thought too much about the downside risk. In my mid-30s, a co-worker asked me out. I though I had been the dutiful rule-follower long enough and we are now married and have babies.
The downsides are different though if your careers start to move in different directions or one is treated very unfairly (and that is the one we struggle with today).
OP
This is one of my concerns about us working generally… I have had a lot more recognition for my work and support from my superiors than him. We have different bosses and I have had a lot of opportunities to really shine. He’s not bitter at me, but is a bit generally bitter, and this is something that I think may be a red flag.
Anon
In my case, I am in a profit center and H is in a cost center. We’ve had some structure changes and he got sacked / internally rehired at a far reduced title / pay. As soon as he finds something else, I think I’ll leave too — it has affected how I see the place.
Long-term, we wanted for him to find something new before this. For you, you probably won’t be co-workers forever even if you start that way (but bitter can be forever). Having a common stressor can unite you but also make it hard to blow off steam.
Fiona
Does anyone have any opinions for how big the office should be before dating a co-worker?
AFT
It’s fine to date a coworker in your situation, but I’m not sure I would want to date a coworker (or anyone really, but ymmv) if I saw serious red flags in the beginning. You don’t have to be absolutely sure that you will end up marrying the person before you even go on an official date, but if you have questions about your compatibility, then that’s to figure out pretty early on.
As an aside, I really needed to hear some of the comments here, so thanks to everyone. I have a huge crush on an associate in my group who’s a few years senior to me. I don’t even remember the last time I was so twitterpated over someone; I feel like I’m in middle school. We’re both single, have great banter, enjoy doing a lot of the same things, and our personalities mesh really well. But we work closely together and there’s no possibility of either of us switching groups. Also, if he were to make partner, he probably would be the main partner I’d work for. I’m really trying to not be obvious about my hopeless crush (as I struggle to not get lost in his eyes…) and keep it professional but ugh, it’s really tough.
Hel-lo
I have dated co-workers in similar “work hard/play hard” offices.
Take a tough look at which one of you is more respected in the office. If he’s the golden boy, then when/if you breakup, you will likely get more social consequences for the relationship.
Go in with your eyes open.
On the other hand, it sounds like your job is a difficult one, and it would be hard for someone outside your industry to understand your hours and stresses. Having a partner with the same outlook can be really nice.
Frye Boots Question
I’m ordering my first pair of Frye boots this week, and my Google search suggests going a half size down. Do you find this to be true in your case? TIA!
Carrie Preston
Not in my experience – I’ve found them to be pretty true to size, but I think different styles run differently. I mostly have their shorter boots/shoes.
Anonymous
Thanks! I am looking at their knee-length boots. For your true-to-size boots, what kind of socks can you wear (i.e., just stocking or think socks, or wool socks as well)?
RED
Whoops. I am the OP.
Carrie Preston
I usually wear a pretty think sock (about the weight of an athletic sock) with them but my feet don’t swim in tights either.
In Rem
No. On the short ones, I wear my normal size. I have a pair of tall ones that are actually hard to get on and I wish I’d ordered a half size larger.
anon
hmm, I actually usually go half a size up. but I like to wear somewhat thicker socks.
Maddie Ross
It depends on the style. The Paiges run a bit big, so order a half size small. Melissas are pretty true to size. The ones with the higher heels (the Harlows, for instance) usually run a bit small if anything and you may want to order a bit up. The Zappos comments are usually pretty accurate, so check those out for the style you like, even if you don’t order/buy there.
Pam
I actually found my Paige boots to be TTS and I could have gone up a half size even. Sizing down a half size would definitely have been too small, just as another data point on that style.
Robin Sparkles
It really depends on the style. I am typically a 7.5, and I have short boots in a 7, regular shoes in a 7.5, and two pairs of tall boots in 7.5 and 8. If they are tall boots, I would recommend trying to guess how hard they would be to put on. If they are slouchy or have zippers, I would order your regular size. If they are slim and sleek, I would go half size up. Also, frye boots are amazing and you will love them!!!
RED
Thanks! This is all very helpful.
emmabean
I found mine to be quite narrow, so I went a size up for that reason. I have wide feet. Is there no way you can get into a store to try some on and then buy online?
Bonnie
My knee length ones are true to size.
Basil
TTS for me. If you can, try them on in a store and then stalk on eBay. I got mine got $80 that was..
AN
Happy Diwali to all the ‘ r e t t e s who celebrate it!
ss
And best wishes also to those who observe the Muslim new year !
Ru
=)
tesyaa
My mechanic celebrates it! He told me to bring in my car on Tuesday instead of Monday because of the holiday, so I just wished him a happy new year!
Jupiter Jones
Happy Diwali! Yay it’s Four days of Diwali this year! So freaking happy!
anon in tejas
happy diwaili yall. here’s to a wonderful new year filled with light.
Frou Frou
Thanks, Happy Diwali to you, too!
Is It Just Me?
For an upcoming holiday dinner, I asked if I could bring anything. I was then provided with two recipes. My first instinct is a little “WTH?”… but curious if y’all think this is normal.
Diana Barry
Not normal! They should ask you at the most to bring a “side dish” or “salad” or “dessert” – not give you recipes!!!
BB
Umm…unless you are generally, well-naturedly known as a hopeless cook, this is INCREDIBLY rude! I love to cook and think I’m pretty decent at it. I would be highly offended if someone did this to me.
Mpls
The only other qualifier I would add is if it was my mother and the conversation was more like my asking what I can do to help, and her asking me to make a dish, and then saying these two would be great. And I like my mother, so I’m predisposed to help her out.
But other than a few narrow scenarios, if the host farms out dishes, they give up the opportunity to be a micromanager about what the dishes are.
OP – if you had something else in mind (or even if you didn’t), I would respond with “Oh, I was planning on bring X, so I don’t need any suggestions.”
Aggie
If I were not cooking in my mother’s kitchen this thanksgiving, I can guarantee she would be emailing me recipes to bring. There are several recipes that are handed down generation to generation. The family expects Aunt So and So’s pumpkin pie and Nana’s mashed potatoes every year.
However, if it were not my mother or close relative, I would agree with Mpls . Say you had something else in mind and wanted to make sure you weren’t duplicating. (No one needs two cranberry sauces, etc.)
NOLA
Haha – a former boyfriend’s mother used to do this to me regularly. That said, I got a couple of great recipes that way! One is the holiday harvest salad (with apples, dates, walnuts and cranberries) that my family still makes. The other was pears poached in red wine. I generally thought she was nuts but she knew I was a good cook who could pretty much make anything she threw at me.
Architect
Can you share the harvest salad recipe?
NOLA
Happy to!
Holiday Harvest Salad
1 cup coarsely chopped cranberries
2 Tablespoons sugar
2 Granny Smith apples, cored and thinly sliced
3 quarts mixed greens
1 1/2 cups pitted dates, cut into slivers
2/3 cup chopped toasted walnuts
black pepper
Honey-Lime Dressing (below)
Toss cranberries with sugar in a small bowl; let sit 15 minutes. Toss apples with 1/4 cup dressing in another small bowl. Fill a large salad bowl with greens. Fan apple slices around edge of bowl. Toss together cranberries, dates and walnuts, mound in center of bowl. Refrigerate salad until ready to serve. Season with pepper and drizzle with remaining dressing.
Dressing
1/2 cup olive oil
2 Tablespoons lime juice
2 teaspoons honey
1 1/2 teaspoons Dijon mustard
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon black pepper
another Kat
Dried cranberries or fresh?
Anonymous
Fresh. If it were dried, they’d already have sugar. These are macerated with sugar.
NOLA
Oops. That was me.
Anon
Well, you did offer. Is it a family event? It would be kind of weird if you didn’t know the people well, but with family I feel like anything goes.
Is It Just Me?
It’s my ILs. I plan to make what is asked. Just struck me as odd because the requests in the past from this person have been more general in nature. And I feel like it’s some sort of commentary on my cooking, but whatever. FWIW, these are not traditional family recipes, they are new recipes from a cooking mag that she wants to have as part of the meal.
NOLA
Yep, that’s exactly what my BF’s mother did. Cut a recipe out of the paper that she decided would be perfect, then give the recipe to me to make.
Anon
Maybe she already planned it all out and really wants to try the recipe and didn’t know what else to have you bring. I wouldn’t read too much into it. At least she feels comfortable enough with you to make these kinds of requests, right?
Senior Attorney
That was my thought. It’s all in the presentation, I think. I can imagine a scenario in which DIL offers to bring something, and MIL says something like “If you don’t mind, I saw these two recipes I am DYING to include in my meal but I know I won’t have the time or energy to make them. Would you mind being a dear and trying them out for me this year?”
saltylady
So not normal. Although I wish I could do that with my inlaws. My MIL cannot and will not cook, but demands to bring something to Thanksgiving every year. She even screws up salad– she will bring a grocery bag with bagged lettuce, a box of pre-chopped salad ingredients (usually somewhat stale/dried out), a bag of baby carrots, and a bottle of disgusting fruit-based salad dressing. You can only imagine what her Thanksgiving side dishes from years past at her house were like.
Seattle Freeze
Heh. That reminds me of my father’s last wife. After one Thanksgiving with her (mashed potatoes from a box!) I started hosting orphan Thanksgivings for my college friends.
saltylady
MIL’s horrible cooking is the reason we started hosting Thanksgiving at our new house in 2001.
Hel-lo
Sounds like assigning your MIL the salad is the exact right solution. Wouldn’t want her to screw up something else.
(Also just sounds like it’s old-fashioned, like early-90s-ish. My MIL is the same way. She thinks she’s making good food for he family.)
mascot
Is this a family celebration? Our family has some specific dishes that are tradition for us and therefore, specific recipes must be used. Or maybe the host has a set menu and those are the slots that need filling, like we need a sweet potato casserole, here are some ideas. If you have a better recipe, feel free to substitute it. I think that the rules at holidays are a little different since the menus tend to be more rigid. I appreciate when guests bring something, but I do try to suggest dishes that go with the meal. In the alternative, I suggest something that can stand alone, like an appetizer, a green salad, or drinks.
Angela
In fairness to the requestor, I have sometimes asked my SILs to bring a veg, only for them to bring nothing what I asked, like bread or treats for the kids. This Totally threw off my meal as I was then short two veg side dishes,,,,after they did this to me several times, I started to say how about you make ‘x’ and here is my recipe.
Our dinner is for over 22 people, so I like to be organized :)
TBK
Ugh, I have a friend like this. I don’t think she realizes how demandy it looks. Since it’s your in-laws, I’d just roll with it and know that, if you offer again in the future, this is what’s going to happen. Or you’ll know to say “hey, I was thinking of making up either my mother’s amazing pecan pie or a green salad to bring. Would it be helpful if I made either of these?”
Mountain Girl
We do this all the time in our family.
“What can I bring?”
“You bring the broccoli rice casserole. Sister A is bringing the cranberry salad. Sister B is bringing the squash casserole. SIL is bringing some other family dish. Also bring a pie and a salty snack for the day.”
My sisters and I find this absolutely normal. However, I’ve never thought that my SIL might have found this strange. I’ll ask her what she thought the first time we did this to her.
OP
OP here… the puzzling thing is, I’m not new. I have been a part of family holidays for almost a decade. Aside for a few staple dishes, it’s pretty much a free for all menu-wise; in the past, I’ve usually brought pie or sweet potatoes, but just at that level of direction… not to the point of being given the recipe. However, there are some extended/slightly estranged family members joining this year, so maybe the hostess feels the need to step things up?
saltylady
I think it’s one thing to be like, “oh okay, you do pumpkin pie, okay” or
“cool, can you do a sweet potato dish?” As opposed to, here’s a printout of a Pumpkin Caramel Upside Down Cheesecake or Mashed Chipolte Sweet Potatoes with Agave Walnut Topping recipe, please bring that.
Houston Attny
My aunt does this to people. The best part – when the recipe you’ve been assigned (that she’s never made – it just looks good on paper) is terrible, it becomes “oh, Houston Attny! That is awful! The spices are overwhelming!” It’s the opposite of awesome.
Knock-off (but not fake) bag
I bought a bag a few months ago (at a shop with cute little things in it, not out of the back of someone’s car). While clicking around the internet, I discovered that it’s a copy of an expensive bag (it’s not a fake — there is no logo on the bag I have, just nearly identical design elements). I’d never carry a fake bag (LV or Birkins some to mind). This brand is fairly obscure, so I’m sure it would fly beneath the radar as just being the ordinary bag I thought it was, at least in my flyover town. Still, I’m not happy with this news. Continue to carry, since it’s not a fake and just a knockoff? Or put it in the back of the closet b/c who wants to be that kind of girl?
tesyaa
This is a tough one, but I’d say if you like the actual bag’s styling and quality, it’s fine to use a non-recognizable knockoff.
Niktaw
If no logos are involved and the bag is good quality and works well with your lifestyle, I would continue to use it. Your transgression was not deliberate after all.
AIMS
Most bags are inspired by something else. I have an old Cole Haan bag that is quite similar to something Gucci made and a Pour La Victoire purse that is quite a bit like a very famous Celine purse, and I’d say many, if not most, bags made by brands like Steve Madden, etc., are knock-offs of something more high-end (I recently saw a bunch of bags at TJ Maxx that from far away you’d swear were Fendi). Even designer bags borrow heavily from each other (e.g., Marc Jacobs and Lanvin quilted bags and Chanel). I think whether you choose to wear it or not is completely up to you. I know for me once I have a negative association with something for whatever reason I stop wanting that item in my rotation, but if you don’t actually have a negative association, still like the bag and just feel a bit odd about it, I’d say don’t worry about it and enjoy!
Baconpancakes
Ha, every single J.Crew bag is very clearly “inspired by” designer handbags. Their Tillary tote is basically a really nice, good leather knock off of the Celine Luggage. I wouldn’t worry about it, if it’s not easily recognizable, and it doesn’t try to fake logos.
anon for this
This weekend, I told my husband that I think we need to go to marriage counseling. I told him that I love him and want to be with him, but that I am finding that less & less I like the person that I am becoming when I’m around him. I resent how he treats me, because I feel taken for granted, and that I take a back seat to everything else in his life. He agreed that that isn’t how two people who love each other should be together.
So, now I have to find a marriage counselor in our small town that is taking new clients and doesn’t base their therapy methods in religious dogma.
Monday
I’m sorry. No first-hand experience with this, but if you really can’t find anyone appropriate within a reasonable distance I know some couples therapists do intensive retreat/workshops. You and your spouse travel to the location and do the work there, once or over time. I wonder if making the trip itself is a good first step anyway. Just a thought if you feel stuck.
Shop Around
I have been to 4 different therapists with another person: one with my dad, another with my dad and his then-wife and my sister, another with my then BF and a fourth with my now husband. There is a great disparity in how they approach interpersonal issues and in how effective they are.
Assuming you and your husband are still able to cooperate enough to do it, I would recommend spending some time shopping for a therapist together (coming up with 2-4 questions to ask each one, having brief interviews with 2 or 3 options and then selecting together). The worst one I tried was the one whom I saw with my dad, then-stepmother and sister. She caused much more harm than good, but my stepmother was so hostile to the entire idea of therapy that there was no opportunity to even have a discussion about whether this therapist was the right one for us.
Interrobanged
I don’t know if you’re a lawyer, but I had excellent results finding a marriage counselor when I asked a friend who practiced family law. You might consider doing that if you have a few friends who practice in that area (and in whom you don’t mind confiding, of course).
Senior Attorney
+1
That’s how I found my beloved Dr. Shrink. The family lawyers know what’s what when it comes to therapists. (And, I might add, vice versa!)
anon for this OP
Not in law, but work in healthcare. Our shared internist recommended our local mental health center, but they aren’t accepting new clients unless it is an emergency referral for drug or alcohol abuse or mental health crisis.
We’ve agreed to look at the listings in the phone book over lunch and both make some calls this afternoon. We both know that we must both be engaged to be successful.
Neither of us wants to split up. I can’t imagine not being together, and I can’t imagine not spending the rest of my life with him, and he keeps telling me he feels the same way. I just know that we can’t keep doing what we’ve been doing.
Interrobanged
I don’t know if this will make you feel any better, but I’ll share my own story. About five years ago (in fact, it’ll be five years in December…) my husband told me he wanted a divorce. It wasn’t out of the blue because we had been fighting a lot, but it was out of the blue in the sense that I had NO idea he felt that strongly. I didn’t want a divorce and advocated for a separation. So he went to live with his parents, and I stayed in our home.
I knew that I needed to get into therapy, so I asked my family law friend and she recommended a therapist who was about 15 minutes away from me. I started going to her, and at the same time I was encouraging my husband to go for therapy, also, and also believed that we needed couples counseling. (So, count them, THREE THERAPISTS AT ONCE for us). Eventually he did go to his own therapist and we got into couples counseling.
It was rough. It took six months for him to move back into our house. It took at least another two years for us to feel secure in our marriage. It took a lot of work. For me, it was learning to let go of stuff that happened in the past and not being such a workaholic (and also dealing with my mother’s sudden death); for him, it was separating more from his family and understanding that you choose your wife over your family if necessary. (don’t even start… I know everyone will have an opinion that statement, but it’s what is right for us).
But you know what? It was worth it. I love him, I cannot imagine my life without him and yet, at the same time, if things had continued the way they were I don’t think that we could have stayed married. We were both desperately unhappy and now we’re not. Five years out, I think we have a solid marriage where we treat each other well, respect each other, and love each other. So it CAN work out if both parties want the marriage to work, and I wanted to share that story with you give you a little bit of optimism. I know it’s really scary to acknowledge there are issues enough to seek counseling, but it’s a great first step. Good luck.
Houston Attny
I’m not OP, but I really appreciate your story.
preg 3L
If there’s any chance you would be comfortable doing a skype session with your spouse, you might be able to find someone outside of your small town! But big hugs for speaking up and it sounds like your H was at least open to the idea, so that’s great. If therapists are too difficult to find, consider books – if you’re Christian, For Women Only and For Men Only are pretty good; my favorite marriage help book was Project: Happily Ever After.
anon for this OP
I’m a big fan of Captain Awkward and her advise to Use Your Words.
In my professional life, I do it pretty easily. In my personal life? Not so much. I stew and fret and let things build up, and it serves no one.
Wannabe Runner
Heartily agree for Project: Happily Ever After and For Women/Men Only. My DH and I are not Christian, but we were able to skip over the Bible-ness of the latter. (Example: There’s not much about like going to hell or anything, but some about becoming the kind of loyal and loving spouse that God wants you to be.) If you can deal with that, the books are really helpful.
Project: Happily Ever After is the story of the author’s marriage, from the time she met and fell in love with her husband, through some extremely difficult times (separation), to healing their union and eventually feeling fulfilled by it. It goes through the lessons she learned about how both she and her husband were contributing to the hurt. Excellent book.
Ashley
Good for you for recognizing and addressing that there is a problem. And kudos to your husband for agreeing to get help to get it fixed.
There is a slim chance that I may still be married if my ex-husband had been as invested in our relationship.
anon for this
I was in a really uncomfortable situation last week and am not sure how to move forward, wisdom needed.
I was out for dinner on Friday with some people from work who I don’t know very well and one of the women there started talking about how some of the partners at my firm are “sleazy.” When pressed for examples she said that one of the married partners is having an affair with his admin (who is one of my good friends at the firm, which she didn’t know). I know this isn’t true and adamantly denied it to little effect. “I’ve heard it from two different sources so it must be true” was the response. I dropped it after that and am definitely not spending any more time than I have to with that woman, but I’ve felt sick about it since.
I’m really torn on what to do (if anything). I think she’s aware that this is a rumour that is going around. I know she’d be really upset if I told her and I’m not sure it would be productive. Has anyone been in a similar situation / have any thoughts?
Robin Sparkles
My usual response in these kinds of situations is to stay the H E L L away from the whole thing. You aren’t the one rumored to be having an affair and/or actually having one, so stay out. This woman you talked to sounds pretty unpleasant, but she is a great example of how not to get involved with other people’s drama at work. Don’t mention this incident to anyone, and for all intents and purposes just pretend it never happened.
anon
While it sounds like vicious office gossip, are there things going on that would lead people to believe this is true? Is she conducting herself appropriately/professionally? Is she keeping her personal life personal? Is she working well for the other people that she supports? I’m not trying to cast all the responsibility on her, but there may be steps she can take to protect herself from the rumors.
k-padi
No. Just no. None of these is any reason for a stranger to be spreading rumors that she is having an affair.
Anon
I’m not anon at 11:07, but I am thinking that her suggestions were not that the OP’s friend brought this on herself and that it was therefore okay to spread a rumor. The OP was asking what, if anything, to do and it seems like a possible (maybe not preferable) course of action would be for OP to help her admin friend evaluate ways she might be seen by others. E.g., “Admin Friend, I care about you so I want to let you know that the optics aren’t great that you and Partner go out to lunch together every single day.” Again, maybe not a conversation OP wants to have and maybe not fruitful in any event… but I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Admin Friend “deserves” for rumors to spread about her, just that she may be able to get ahead of these rumors by changing her own behavior.
first anon
Yeah, this is a much better explanation of what I was trying to say. If OP feels close enough to this friend and friend has complained about this whiff of rumor, OP could have this conversation.
ss
Agree it’s counter-productive. You’ve already done the right thing for your friend by telling off the gossipy lady.
k-padi
I was at a firm where some partners where from a foreign country that had a major corruption problem. Great guys, very upstanding. But I still heard some rumors at events when I mentioned where I worked.
Honestly, those people knew nothing–they were just trading on stereotypes. If they mentioned it, I would say something like “I’ve never seen anything that would suggest that.”, and move on. Funny thing was, they were usually talking to me to garner an introduction to one of those partners. I chalked it up to jealousy.
TBK
You know your friend best and you feel it would be only upsetting and not productive to tell her, but if I were in her position, I would want to know this. It’s 100% not on your friend to adjust her life to accommodate office gossips, but if it were me, I would want the opportunity to take this into consideration when making workplace decisions (e.g., I probably wouldn’t have lunch one-on-one with my boss if I had in the past, and would be more careful to tone down any banter that could be taken as flirtatious, etc.)
KS IT Chick
+1 on this.
I’ve been the subject of some pretty ugly gossip at my workplace. There was the rumor I was having an affair with my boss, followed by a rumor that I was sleeping with my husband’s assistant (who happened to live next door to us at the time and gave me a ride to work).
I had to know about it to put a stop to it. I didn’t change how I conducted myself, but I did find ways to short-circuit the grapevine.
Marise
How did you stop the gossip? Just curious because it’s often difficult to confront the gossiper without adding extra drama in the workplace.
KS IT Chick
I found the biggest gossips in the organization, and I made it a point to eat lunch with them for a few days, but not in succession. Then, I did a big dramatic production about “I don’t know who starts these rumors, but I can’t believe my life is so interesting to them!” A couple of them commiserated with me that it was just awful to be the subject of gossip. Within a day or two, the rumors were dead, and I was hearing about how even the gossipers were being very careful to stamp them out.
I never directly accused them of rumor mongering, but they quickly understood that they were repeating falsehoods about me.
hoola hoopa
I would absolutely want to know.
Ashley
Crap.
If this is not at all true, then the gossip spreader is probably in violation of at least some kind of workplace policy designed to prevent hostile work environments. Just be spreading that rumour she has poisoned her relationship with the OP.
Were I in that admin’s place I sure as heck would want to know if someone were spreading lies about me sleeping with my boss. I would be beyond incensed. But then OP is then in the very horrible position of being in the gossip loop.
And therein lies the other part of the rub. What if it is true? Same result. OP is dragged into the muck.
I don’t envy you this.
I would stay as far away from this as possible. And I would keep an eye on my admin friend for any signs that the rumour is based on fact. In which case I would withdraw myself from that friendship straight away.
Diana Barry
WEEKEND CLOTHES TJ:
Hi ladies,
I noticed yesterday that I don’t have any super-comfy-but-still-presentable clothes for weekends that involve travel and sneakers. We went on a day trip to a relative’s house and I didn’t want to wear my usual skinny jeans (they are tight although stretchy) for a long day in the car. So I wore my straight-leg jeans, which are now too big. Argh!
To solve this problem, should I get (1) smaller size straight leg jeans, or (2) some kind of yoga-pant-ponte-pant hybrid? If #2, any suggestions for brand/style? I do have leggings outfits but need to wear sneakers to this relative’s house due to the terrain; the boots I have are too fancy or not comfy enough.
Maddie Ross
I have a pair of ponte knit skinny pants from AG that I love for this purpose. They are styled like skinny jeans (5 pockets + zipper) but are soft like stretch pants. And the ponte hides more sins, but doesn’t bag out too much.
Seattle Freeze
You might try something like skinny cords with some good stretch to them – I’ve been wearing the hell out of mine (from Uniqlo & Target, of all places) – soft & comfy, fun colors, can dress up or down, & look cute with sneakers, flats, boots, etc.
Bonnie
I t hink straight leg or slightly bootcut jeans look better with sneakers than skinnies. My favorites are Joe’s Honey cut which I wear with streamlined Supergas or Pumas.
In Rem
Anyone have Accutane advice for my daughter? She’s almost 14 and the many topical medications prescribed by her dematologist do not seem to work. I have to suspect that he’s going to bring up Accutane before long, so I’m reading up on the scary side effects . . .
I Heart Accutane
I did it when I was 31 and 32. The first time cleared my skin beautifully; it looked like alabaster glowing from within. But within a few months after completing the 20 week course, I needed it again. The second time stuck, and my skin has been gorgeous ever since. I am 47, and I regularly get compliments on it and comments about how young I look.
Advice (in no particular order):
* it makes your skin extremely photo-sensitive, so try to do it over the winter months and be prepared for lots of sunscreen use
* it makes your skin and hair and lips extremely dry, so be prepared to go through tubes and tubes of lip balm (with sunscreen!) and bottles of lotion and not to wash your hair as often as you normally do. This all goes back to normal after it’s over.
* it affects how easily your skin rips, so NO WAXING while you’re on it and be prepared for paper cuts and the like
* you cannot have a baby while on Accutane because of the risk of birth defects, so be prepared to take a pregnancy test every month at your derm’s office while you are on it
I cannot say enough good things about Accutane. I wish I had done it much earlier.
Anon
I am the anon from below who is considering a second round- did you do a shorter course? Was it easier or harder the second time? I feel like now that I am a working professional having peeling pink skin for 6 months might not be the best idea.
I Heart Accutane
The second round was just like the first in terms of side-effects and getting that glowing-from-within gorgeous skin about half-way through the 20 week course. It was the same length and same dosage as the first course. The only difference was that I specifically waited until the winter months (I live in SoCal) to start because I knew in advance how photosensitive my skin would be.
My skin did not get pink and peel, like it sounds yours did. The only bad part (as far as how my skin looked) was the first 2-3 weeks when all the gunk comes out and you have more pimples than before. (And then as soon as those pimples settle down, you never have any more.) That happened both times, although sitting here now, it seems as if it was less extreme the second time. I’m not sure if it was less extreme the second time or if it just didn’t surprise me the second time, so it seemed less extreme :)
AIMS
Maybe try a new dermatoliogist? I know Accutane really works for some people but I think 14 is a normal time to have skin issues and what’s worked best for me when I started breaking out is to just stop all the acne treatments and switch to the most gentle, sensitive-skin products available. It’s possible that all the stuff she is being prescribed is only irritating her skin further which is causing her to break out more. I would at least try a detox from all the harsh products before using something like Accutane.
Anne Shirley
Just as a counter-point, I really wish I had tried Accutane younger. I was selfconcious about my skin through sophomore year of college when my seem finally said, look, you can keep messing around, or you can take Accutane and fix it. 6 months of lots of chapstick later and I no longer need to think about my skin. My derm cautioned about the rare cases of suicide on the drug, and I made sure to have a few people around me keeping an eye out, but that’s extremely rare and hasn’t been conclusively shown as a side effect anyway.
Anonymous
I’m the same way. My derm tried a number of other topical treatments that left me with a lot of scarring. Accutane ended up completely clearing up my skin. Yes, the side effects weren’t great (I went through a ton of lip balm and lotion) and the monthly pregnancy tests were an added inconvenience (I went with the “abstinence” option so there was no chance I was pregnant, but I understood that the birth defect risk was very serious hence the mandatory tests). I wish I could have done that at age 14 instead of having 5 extra years of discomfort, embarrassment, and the residual scarring.
Anonymous
Agreed. I wish I had taken it much younger and avoided some of the scarring I’ve suffered. I just signed up for a second course, 5 years after my first. First was great, but now I’m getting breakouts again. I am late 30s.
anne-on
Agreed. I went on it in my 20s once I could afford it myself. I started getting acne at 11 that despite many, many different pills/gels/etc. just never went away ever. If I had done the accutane in high school I would have been much much happier.
Anon
I took accutane when I was 20 or so. Best decision for me. There are some bad side effects though:
1. dry lips- I would panic if I didn’t have lip balm with me at all times. Yes- panic.
2. bloody noses- and I still get these when I am in dry climates. Usually wake up to blood in my nose.
3. Pinkish hue to skin while on treatment. Very sensitive generally.
I had chronic but not horrible acne. I was 100% clear for about 6 months after then got some small ones pop up. I couldn’t remember the last time I had skin that clear- I was over the moon. My skin tone generally improved too- no redness, oily patches, etc. As I have gotten older my acne has gotten better but in truth I should probably do a second round to knock it out for good. It has drastically cut down grease production- although maybe now that I’m in my early 30s it might have just decreased naturally.
I never experienced depression- because of it, I was so happy my skin was clearing.
It’s a tough choice, I know my mom was worried about me being on it. I had to get regular pregnancy tests (once a month) which was a pain. I am very glad I did it though.
Anon
Have you considered trying her on birth control before using Accutane? I was on Accutane around that age and while I didn’t have any serious side effects, it was a pain getting all the blood tests, it made wearing contact lenses uncomfortable, and I had terrible dry skin and rashes which looked great with all that lingering acne. After a couple courses, my acne still came back, though not as badly. Birth control worked better for me and was less annoying.
Anonymous
I think the side effects can be scary, but you and your daughter will just have to be vigilant about how she is feeling. I think there is liver testing once a month? I haven’t been on it, but anyone I know who has only has good things to say about it. They all get the dry/flaky skin and lips but I haven’t known anyone whose had serious medical problems. It’s not abnormal to have to do 2 courses of it. Don’t be weirded out that your daughter will most likely need to go on birth control pills (and pledge to use condoms if she does have sex). While your daughter *most likely* isn’t having sex at the age of 14, this is precautionary on the part of the doctor and the pharmaceutical company as the birth defects are horrendous. Acne sucks and it must be really hard for your daughter, but Accutane can be a miracle for some people. It’s good to nip this in the bud before her scarring gets too bad.
LilyB
Did accutane when I was 20 and desperately wished I had done it at 13/14. It really is a miracle. I’m 27 now and still get pimples occasionally/still have bigger-than-ideal pores next to my nose, but I can’t recommend accutane enough. I’m tempted to go on another course but the potential side effects aren’t worth it now that my acne is mostly gone.
Acne can be so scarring, emotionally and physically, and the physical scars may never go away if you let it get too bad before going on accutane. I second the suggestion to try birth control first (she’ll have to be on it a month before starting accutane anyway), but please don’t wait too long as it may only get worse with time. And high school is a tough time as it is without having to deal with acne. I commend you for caring about this and giving it your attention. Some people brush it off as vanity or unimportant, but in reality it can have a lasting effect on your self-esteem.
mini mouse
+1
That’s really great you are thinking about what’s best for your daughter. I would probably start on OCPs or antibiotics (pills) first, and then try Accutane. The side effects are serious, so your hesitations are reasonable, but I have been impressed with how many people have had good effects under careful supervision. But it sounds like your dermatologist is being systematic so give it a little more time to try things.
I waited until my 40’s to finally see a dermatologist to treat my lifelong acne (face, chest, back… awful) and this is one of my biggest regrets. Spironolactone is now my wonder drug, although OCPs helped a little in my 20’s. My dermatologist has said that studies have shown the affects of untreated acne are profound, especially for women. I am horribly insecure about my appearance, remember painfully the many subtle rejections/comments, and have never had a boyfriend …. partially because I am so embarrassed by my appearance and the men I was interested in would never be attracted to someone like me. Even now…. The scar is profound.
I can’t tell you how much it would have helped me to have a doctor step up and try to help me, as my mother never did and my primary care doctors (all women!) just ignored my “problem”. Years later I saw they would describe my terrible acne in clinic notes, but never provide me help. My mother was blessed with perfect skin, and honestly her attempts to try to “ignore” my problems made me feel that she was embarrassed/ashamed…. not rational on my part.
So thanks for looking out for your daughter and getting her to a dermatologist early.
LK
I went through two cycles of Accutane when I was a little older than your daughter. It definitely helped my skin, but never eliminated cystic acne completely for me. I agree with all of the side effects the other posters have mentioned. It was more of an annoyance than anything else – dry lips & hair and sun sensitivity were the biggest issues for me, but easily managed
What finally cleared my skin was going on birth control. It really was a miracle for my skin.
At 14 I’m not sure if your daughter wears make up, but one of the things my Mom did for me was take me to the Clinique counter at a department store. They showed me how to apply make up properly to cover up my acne and still look natural. 15 years later, I am still so thankful that my Mom thought to do that. Having Acne as a teenager is tough!
Angela
I also did it when I was 32 and had no depression side effects. Frankly, I wish I had done it in my teens, would have saved me years of low self confidence
It lasted for about 5 years for me, now I take low dose antibiotic. Birth control did not help
The emotional scars were very deep, please give it a try
Anon
I did the regime when I was in high school. My skin looked fantastic and my skin has improved since then but it’s not like she’ll never get pimples or cystic acne again. A few things to be prepared for:
1) monthly blood draws (I’m assuming to ensure that your liver is fine – absolutely zero drinking! – and you’re not pregnant).
2) dry dry dry skin. All skin surfaces – the inside of your nose, your lips, your eyes, etc. Aquaphor is the only thing that worked for me. It feels thicker than Vaseline. I had to use Acquaphor inside my nose to prevent cracking/a bloody nose, and if my lips weren’t coated in Aquaphor I used to get these tiny bumps on my lips (I likened them to fever blisters, but I’m not sure what they were). Fortunately, they went away as soon as I would put Acquaphor on. Contacts may become irritable at this point because her eyes may get dry.
3) (possible) extreme fatigue. At one point the dose that I was on was too high (for me physically) and I found myself incapable of staying awake. Once my dose was corrected, I was fine.
anon
Not to hijack this thoughtful question, but to piggyback off it…have any of you ladies that have been on BC to help with acne experienced real issues with acne recurrence when going off BC? I am about to start TTC and am terrified that my really bad acne will pop back up as soon as I’m off and not sure what to do to control it (beyond oral antibiotics, which are no good for pregnancy either).
Anonymous
Would love to hear insight into this as well! Ive been on BC since I was 16 due to irregular periods, heavy bleeding, acne and I’m terrified to go off of it one day! Not sure if my previous issues were caused by just being a teenager or undiagnosed PCOS.
marketingchic
My acne did come back when I stopped BCP (my skin had been clear from starting BCP at age 21 to stopping to TTC at 32.) Since you can’t use many acne medications, I basically spackled my face with makeup.
It went away after I stopped nursing and re-started the pill. Interestingly, my acne didn’t come back with my 2nd baby – maybe because I was 37.
anon
Thanks for sharing! It’s ridiculous that this makes me worried and hesitant to stop BC…I’m sure when actually pregnant my happiness about that will overtake my vain sadness re. adult acne! Maybe hormones will work in my favor though. Who knows.
anonymama
Yes, it did, but everyone reacts differently. Interestingly, it went away in late pregnancy and didn’t come back afterward, until after I went on the pill for a bit and then back off it again.
TTC
I was on the pill straight from age 17-32. My skin was perfectly clear when I went off.
Remember that all skin types need extra moisture, just use non-oily if your skin is already oily.
In Rem
Thank for all the comments. It’s so helpful to hear your thoughts. I want to help her but don’t want her to think I am critical of her appearance — I will keep all these suggestions in mind and check out the Clinique counter also!
Joanna Toews
Whether or not you two decide to go the Accutane route, I HIGHLY recommend acne(dot)org. The message boards are full of people who have tried just about everything.
Outfit Advice
Hi all, I just bought the b.o.c. Francis Bootie shoes in brown (link to folllow) this weekend. They’re incredibly comfortable and look great with jeans, but I don’t know what else I can wear them with. Any ideas?
Outfit Advice
The shoes: http://www.dsw.com/shoe/b.o.c+francis+bootie?prodId=dsw12prod4600039&category=dsw12cat1100004&productRef=quickAddToBagFormTab
Elysian
Has anyone else had trouble buying clothes from Ann Taylor? Their pricing policies are driving me up a wall. I went to their store over the weekend to get a new suit and they were having a “50% off everything” sale. When I was handed my receipt, I mentioned that the 50% hadn’t shown up, and they were like “Oh its 50% off everything except suits and sunglasses.”
I decided to keep the suit anyway (though I would have liked to know that the sale didn’t apply BEFORE they rung me up) and went to get matching pants from the website. I had a coupon in my inbox for $50 off, so I got two pairs of pants and figured I would return the ones that didn’t fit. In my shopping cart it took $50 off my total. In my email confirmation, it took $25 off each pair of pants, so there’s no way I can get the full discount, even though one pair of pants would have qualified for the discount by itself. I called customer support and they said there’s nothing they can do.
Is buying clothes supposed to be this hard? I feel like they are lying to me every step of the way. Am I the only one confused by this stuff? Am I just supposed to know that suits don’t go on sale and that discounts get pro-rated by the number of items?
preg-anon
I feel your pain. I’ve written a letter to their corporate legal department about their misleading sales/coupon practices. I received a dismissive response, but the process of writing the letter made me feel a little better.
mascot
I find the exclusion policies are worse for those stores running sales every 36 hours (looking at you Gap family brands and AT/Loft). I’ve started shopping most of those online so I can pull stuff from my cart if the discount doesn’t get applied.
Possibly the only way you could get the full coupon is just to buy one pair of pants and then exchange it for sizing. It’s up to you to decide if that hassle is worth the extra $25.
Elysian
I would, but return shipping is $8 and then shipping of the new item would be another $9, so it would quickly obliterate my discount. This particular style of pants isn’t sold in the store (though the rest of the matching suit is.) I bought the suit as a present to myself for passing the bar, and dealing with their sales policies has just starting to obliterate my joy over my “Congrats, me!” purchase.
Hel-lo
Agree. I used to love shopping at AT and Loft. But there are none around me, so I have to do it online. The shipping fees are exorbitant compared to other stores, so no more AT for me.
Marilla
Yes, I hate that too! Tell me at the cash, at least, not after when I’m staring at the receipt wondering what happened to my 40% off.
The Banana Republic exclusions are annoying too, in particular the “BR Picks” exclusion – you don’t necessarily know something falls into that category (unless you check the page) until your coupon code doesn’t work.
LizNYC
I’ve noticed stores doing this more often as well — that the $X off comes from each item bought, not a flat $X at the end. So like you noticed, you got $25 off each pair of pants rather than each pair of pants -$50 at the end. This way, when you return, the store isn’t losing money in the return (since if you bought it with that coupon, it might not have been considered in the return. So one pair of pants were normally $50. You paid $50 for 2 pair with your $50 coupon. You don’t get to return a pair for $50 and essentially get one for free. You get to return one pair for $25 and keep the pair you spent $25 on.
Elysian
I totally understand that, and have had stores remove a discount when I have returned things like that – when the coupon required a certain price and returning things brought me under it. Except here, the deal was “$50 off when you spend $100 or more” – Each pair of pants was $128, so even with just one pair of pants I would have gotten the discount. I only got 2 because I was unsure of size. I’ve never had anyone try to remove just part of a discount before like this.
The code is ANN3fg6, by the way, if anyone is looking to get something at AT. $50 off $100 purchase or more, plus free shipping.
Maybe I’m just too used to good customer service, but I feel like even when I buy things from Target online they don’t nickel and dime me as much as AT is trying to.
rosie
This is kind of similar to stores that refund you in part with a gift card when you make a purchase with a gift card and credit card and the amount you’re returning is less than the total you put on the credit card. Macy’s has a policy of giving you your refund in each form of payment proportional to how you originally paid.
AIMS
Yes, it is annoying and a pain. But this is just how most discounts of this sort work. You have to learn to read the fine print. And I always check to see what the price is *before* I pay as the items are being rung up.
I ran into this problem with BR when I realized that the 40% off one full price item coupons they give you don’t apply to blazers. Same with the discounts – you have to know how they get applied. I have a BR credit card from ages ago and by way of rewards they give you BR cash you can use at any of their brands – if you’re using a % off coupon, you have to make sure you get wrung up with that first and *then* give your store cash to be taken off the new total.
Btw, there are stores where this is less of a problem. Stores that take pride in customer service like BB, Bloomingdales or Lord & Taylor (just as a random few) will often help you know when an item will go on sale. Several times, an associate at Bloomingdales or L&T has told me that I could “pre-purchase” something that will be on sale later that week or month and pick it up later. Loehmann’s is also really helpful about this sometimes — I’ve had their cashiers figure out how to maximize every in-store coupon they had for me.
Anonymous
Had the same issue this weekend. When I saw the discount did not apply to the suit at the register, I told the sales associate that I would wait on buying the suit. She asked her manager if she could apply the discount to the suit. The first answer was no, but then a coupon magically appeared and the suit was rung up at 50% off. There was no way I was going to buy a pair of mid-quality unlined suit pants at the full sticker price. At the 50% off price, it seemed like I was getting a fair value.
Elysian
It makes me feel infinity times better that I was not the only one misled by their signage. There was no fine print on the in-store signs and every time I asked an associate they said “Yes, its really 50% everything!” It was not. You’d think they would have mentioned it when I spent like 45 minutes trying on suits in the dressing room or something! But, no.
saltylady
That happened to me with a suit there. I just asked the salesperson if there was some other kind of discount they could give me, and she managed to whip out some card or coupon or something. Not 40 or 50% off but it was something. They’re annoying with their constant sales. Just price it the way it should be, and leave sales for old stuff.
Anonymous
I am so fed up with stores that do stuff like this. I had something similar happen at AT a few months ago, but the manager stepped in and gave me 50% off the suit anyway, even thouth they technically weren’t supposed to be included in the “50% off everything.” I had a similar issue at BR recently, where I got a coupon in the mail that said “X% off of 1 item from now until Y date.” So I went in, found a dress I liked and was willing to by at X% off (but wouldn’t have bought at full price), and waited in line to be told at the register, “oh, this doesn’t start until Tuesday.” Well, then why does it say “from NOW until ….” on the coupon? Isn’t it now now? They refused to honor it, so I walked away without buying the dress.
I guess that this business model must be working for them, but I think find it to be very disrespectful of my time, and really kind of dishonest and sleazy.
Another B
I’m with you on waste of time, etc.
One tip: If you have a store card, and look like you’re going to walk away, and some sort of supervisor is there, they’ll honor the coupon/discount code “since you’re a valued card member.”
Calling Cb!
Hey Cb – saw this on Yahoo and thought about your peanut butter cup craving: http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-food/homemade-peanut-butter-cups-150100740.html
Not Reese’s but could be a really good substitute?
Cb
You’re amazing, I prefer dark chocolate anyways but make an exception for pb cups. My mom sent a birthday box for my partner and included Reeses. He sat there and ate them while we skyped. So, so cruel!
NOLA
That was me, by the way. And yes, that was cruel!
Cb
But I’m in Belgium at the moment which means chocolate, waffles, and fries so it evens out a bit.
zora
GAH Belgium!! The BEST thing about Belgium hands down is the foooooodddd. And the chocolate. Siiiigghhhhh. Have a chocolate truffle for me ;o)
Cb
I may have had 4 truffles and some fries. I’m apparently eating my feelings. :)
Anon
Can anyone recommend a wrap or fitted sweater? There’s one at Ann Taylor that I liked, but the material was horrendous and already pilly even in the store. Link to follow.
Anon
http://www.anntaylor.com/309989?cid=BRM01147
dress help
Would you wear this dress (link to follow) to an event with a cocktail/black tie dress code in November? I know cocktail and black tie are not the same thing, but both are acceptable for the event in question.
dress help
http://www.whitehouseblackmarket.com/store/browse/product.jsp?maxRec=25&pageId=1&productId=570089636&viewAll=true&prd=CrossBack+Matte+Jersey+Gown&subCatId=cat6179297&color=&fromSearch=&inSeam=&posId=14&catId=cat210002&cat=Dresses++Skirts+Little+Black+Dress&onSale=&colorFamily=&maxPg=1&size=
long dress lover
I would wear it for black tie, but not for cocktail. For your situation, I would decide based on the setting and what others will be wearing. If it will steer more formal and is social (not work related) I would wear it.
Of course, I would need the body to wear it…. Can I borrow yours? :)
Mpls
Sure – go crazy with the bling. And beware that full length jersey is has some weight to it. Which might be fine for you and feel cozy in Nov :) but is one of the reasons that I prefer my jersey dresses no longer than knee length.
anon
I would not wear a jersey dress, even one styled in this way, to a cocktail/black tie affair. Especially in the winter/spring.
dress help
This is my fear. I can’t tell if this matte jersey will make it look like I’m wearing a summer maxi dress!
dress help
Then again, the alternative for me is this which is also jersey. I’ve seen it IRL and decided it is dressy enough:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/lauren-ralph-lauren-satin-neckline-matte-jersey-gown/3619874?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=&resultback=1323&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-browseresults-_-1_5_C
roses
This reads much more dressy, IMO, despite the jersey material.
AIMS
I like this one a lot better.
Anonymous
totally appropriate for either event.
Anonymous
Wondering what everyone else’s take on this might be. Let’s say there’s a couple, Spouse A and Spouse B. They met in a city that’s very close to Spouse A’s hometown. Spouse B likes the city and has established something of a career there. Spouse A doesn’t really like the city and would prefer to live elsewhere, although, given Spouse B’s career, realizes this would be difficult. Also, Spouse A’s mother lives nearby. A’s father passed away and A is an only child, so it also isn’t really feasible for A to move too far away from the city for the mother’s sake. Spouse B is from a city that’s a short plane ride away, which is where Spouse B’s parents and extended family live. Spouse A doesn’t like Spouse B’s home city at all and it’s clear that A and B will never live there.
My question is whether regular flights to B’s home city (~2 per year for both spouses plus another ~2 trips per year for B alone) should be considered part of the couple’s joint financial obligations, or whether B should use B’s own discretionary money for that. (Both spouses have a certain amount of discretionary money for whatever that they don’t have to clear with each other.) B argues that they can see A’s mother any time and actually see her almost weekly, while B only gets to see B’s own family a few times a year. A argues that B is the one who wants to live where they do; A would prefer to live in a different city and, if they did, it would be more fair because then they’d have to spend money on flights to visit either parents.
Ultimately, I realize this is something that my husband and I need to work out between ourselves, but just wondering what other people’s take on this might be.
Anon
My take is that anything that has to do with family (visiting family, hosting family, gifts for family, etc) is a TEAM expense, not an individual expense. Regardless of whether you live in City A, City B, or City Z.
first anon
+1. Also, the time commitment of seeing A’s mother more often (plus any obligations that A has to take care of errands for her ) should count for something.
LH
+2
Elysian
I mean, that depends on what the reason is that you have discretionary money. My husband and I don’t do that, so such trips would come out of joint funds. What is the purpose of your “discretionary” funds? Gift-giving to each other? To buy fun things without being held accountable to the other person? To keep certain expenses segregated in case of a divorce? Is it because one spouse has exclusive access to a trust?
My take is that this is a joint expense. You’ve made a joint decision about where to live (I hope), and there are implications of that for both you. If one of you worked further from your house than the other, would one be paying for the extra gas from their discretionary fund? I don’t think I would divide things up that way. But then again, my husband and I do almost all our spending from a joint account, so we don’t divide things up at all, really.
Diana Barry
+1, I agree.
Is spouse A mad that spouse B is away visiting parents “too often”? Or is it because of the cost? If one set of parents lives closer than the other, of course more $$ is going to be spent visiting the far-away parents. It doesn’t matter why the spouses chose to live where they did.
anon
Spouse B should pay for plane ticket out of discretionary money when Spouse B is going alone. Tickets should come out of joint account when both spouses are going (or, each spouse pays individually for his/her ticket… works out the same). Not fair to expect Spouse B to pay for Spouse A’s ticket just because they’re going to visit Spouse B’s family.
Marilla
I would put 2 trips a year as a joint financial obligation. The other 2 trips could go either way. You might want to compromise and divide them up that way, if it makes the expense more palatable.
I’m in a similar situation. My family lives a 6-hour drive/1-hour plane ride away. I typically see them twice, maybe three times a year. I am VERY close with my family and talk with them several times a week. We live in my husband’s hometown and see his family every week (I adore his mom so I generally don’t mind). We don’t divide spending into joint obligations/personal fun money, but we have had conflict over using up vacation days to see my parents for holidays instead of going somewhere fun together. My husband isn’t thrilled with it but in the end understands how important it is to me.
I wouldn’t drag in “well, it’s YOUR fault we live here!”
OP
The question of where we live is another whole issue underlying all of this. He never liked this area and, shortly after we were married, I agreed to pick up stakes and move to a (somewhat far away) city that he was in love with but that I really wasn’t sure about. After about 18 months there, during which I searched unsuccessfully for work (my work is really focused in the city we now live in and there wasn’t much similar in the new city), it became clear that I was miserable and we really needed for me to be working again (mostly financially, but also for my own emotional/psychological well-being — I was pretty much an emotional wreck after a year there). So we moved back. As I said, I love it here but he finds the atmosphere oppressive. He would love to move elsewhere, but it would be really hard for me to find good work elsewhere (I make about 75% of our household income), it would be hard on his mom if we weren’t nearby, and we’re planning to have a baby soon so it seems crazy to move away from free babysitting plus all the wonderful things for the child that come from being close to a grandparent (and a relatively cheap and quick flight away from the other grandparents). Mostly he agrees that I was a good sport in moving to another city and giving a good try, and that it’s not really feasible for us to live anywhere else right now, but he still finds our current city to be miserable so that’s why the “it’s your fault we live here” thing gets trotted out during these conversations.
Marilla
It sounds like a tough situation to be in, but one that’s really separate from the issue of family visits. I would try to avoid letting different issues bleed into each other during discussions, even if they’re related, and even/especially if it’s an emotional or sore subject. Try to tackle it as one specific issue – how do we solve Specific Problem X, together? (I’m married to an engineer, so I may be biased in favour of this type of specific and logical discussion. But I think it’s a helpful approach for non-engineers too :))
OP
Oh, I totally agree that it’s a separate issue. He, however, doesn’t.
preg 3L
I have a few thoughts on this.
1) If I were in Spouse A’s position, I would probably feel that it should come out of Spouse B’s discretionary income.
2) I would never go visit my parents without my husband, and wouldn’t expect him to visit his parents without me, so I would be opposed to the solo trips entirely. (Joint trips should absolutely be paid out of joint funds, regardless of whose parents are being visited.) The amount of conflict surrounding the decision to take a solo trip might influence me to think that the solo trips should come out of Spouse B’s discretionary income. If both spouses agree that a solo trip is better for everyone for whatever reason, then I would be more inclined to think the solo trips should come out of joint funds.
3) As an outsider, I agree with others that the decision of where to live is a joint decision and that family is a joint obligation.
Anon
Why would you be opposed to solo trips?
I really enjoy visiting my parents with my SO, but there are times when his schedule doesn’t permit it, and I have no issue flying solo on those weekends.
preg 3L
Because to me, part of being married is being a family. It’s important to me to feel that I am now part of my in-law’s family, that my DH is part of my family, and that DH & I are a family unit that do things together. Both of us like our in-laws more than our own parents, so that might have something to do with it. YMMV, and I don’t mean to suggest this is the only or best way to do things, but I was offering my opinion on OP’s situation.
anon
I find that incredibly strange, but to each their own.
Diana Barry
Interesting. I also have no issue with when my DH wants to visit his parents on his own (and vice versa). Have at it!
AIMS
I honestly cannot imagine only visiting my mom with my SO. What about when you want to talk about stuff that doesn’t involve your SO?
I guess it depends on how close you are to your parents but I just really can’t imagine having an “always together” rule. I think my SO probably could more than me though. When we go to see his family I always ask if he’d rather go alone and he usually has no idea what I mean. Not that I mind visiting them, but I just can’t imagine only seeing my family with him in tow.
Monday
I’ve actually considered implementing a new policy to only visit my mom when my husband can come, but that’s mostly because our relationship (me and my mom) is so unpredictable that I need a buffer/moral support/third party with a sane perspective. The downside of making this change is that going to my hometown also means seeing a bunch of friends I have there, and I do tend to like some time with them solo. I haven’t decided what to do yet (suggestions welcome).
I totally encourage him to visit his parents without me, and he does so about 50% of the time. They do not have a problematic relationship.
Nonny
My SO’s mother lives in our city and he’s over there all the time without me, which suits me just fine. We go over as a couple once a week or two, which is enough for me. She’s a very nice woman but she speaks very little English and I don’t understand very much of her language, so visiting her isn’t the most exciting prospect ever for me. Plus my SO goes over to do stuff around the house quite frequently. If we had to go over there together every single time, I’d be there constantly.
My family are about a 4-hour car trip away, and I actually really enjoy visiting them without my SO. He gets along great with my parents and my grandparents, but honestly sometimes there are things I just want to do without him, and he’d usually prefer to spend his weekend puttering around the house than sitting around my parents’ house. So we go over there a few times a year together, and I go over a few times on my own. I can’t imagine having to go over there with him every single time.
Interrobanged
What’s wrong with solo trips? I live far away from my family and sometimes I just want to go home for a quick weekend to see my dad and uncle and other family. He doesn’t have to come with me. Same deal if he wants to go over to his parents’ for dinner and I want to stay home… sometimes we need solo time with our families.
emmabean
Generally when my SO and I travel together, regardless of where we’re going, we split the cost. If we’re traveling by ourselves, we pay out of our own funds. The exception to this was when he was unemployed and I wanted to travel to Toronto (from a Southern State) to attend a childhood friend’s wedding. I paid for both tickets then, and I would probably have done so even if he was employed at the time. If it matters, we’re not married, but have lived together for 4 years.
OP
Thanks for the input. If it wasn’t clear from my question, I’m B. The reason I go to my parents alone twice a year is that my husband doesn’t really get along with my mother and, as I said, really really doesn’t like the part of the country that I’m from. He does the other two trips per year because I think he feels he needs to put in an appearance and because he doesn’t want my family to think he hates them. Also, I’m from a part of the country where pretty much everyone who’s there has lived there for generations, and most extended families are extremely close — in large part because they all live within about a 20 mile radius of each other. The city we live in, however, is very transitory and almost no one is “from” here. While my husband is, his parents aren’t, so there’s no extended family here and that family he has, he’s not very close to and doesn’t feel the need to visit more than once every five years or so.
I agree with those who feel that family obligations are joint obligations and that we may spend money on visiting my family, but we spend a great deal of time visiting my MIL. I happen to get along great with my MIL, and so my husband says that it’s not really comparable because it doesn’t “cost” me as much. I think the argument that it would be fairer if we lived in a third city and had to pay to visit either parents is just silly. I see this as not less fair, but that instead of paying, say, a total of $1,000+ to visit both parents, we can now visit both sets of parents for only $500.
I think a big part of it is that, because he was never especially close to his family, he doesn’t think visiting family is a need and is more of a want. Also, growing up, it was drilled into me that it was morally very, very important to visit older relatives frequently and that it was a big part of being a Good Person. My husband sees older relatives as his equals and if they really want to visit him, they should shoulder the burden of visiting.
Finally, my husband tends to see things as black and white, and to see fairness as meaning exactly the same, even if the impact is different. I see fairness as meaning similar impact, and that being part of a family means taking on more when you’re in a position to do it just because that’s what family does for each other.
Diana Barry
See above in Marilla’s comment: “My husband isn’t thrilled with it but in the end understands how important it is to me.”
It sounds like your husband doesn’t understand how important visiting family is to you. It might be worth a conversation or 2, or perhaps even some therapy (depending on how big a conflict this is) to discuss your different approaches to family, $$, etc.
ezt
I agree with everyone who thinks this should be a joint expense and that your husband needs to try to put himself in your shoes and understand that people have different relationships with their families. Also, I find the argument that you like his mom, and so it doesn’t “cost” you as much, to be kind of mean-spirited towards you. So you’re basically being penalized for getting along with his mom/ not complaining about spending time with her? I love my MIL, but it’s in large part due to the fact that I made an effort to do so, because she is my husband’s mom. Sometimes that doesn’t work and people just don’t get along that well, but he should just be so happy you get along with his mom, instead of using that as a point against you.
anne-on
Oof, if you have children get your husband prepared to learn and use the line “fair isn’t always equal and equal isn’t always fair”…
WestCoast Lawyer
This sounds like the cost of the tickets is a red herring that the two of you are focusing on to avoid a whole bag of other issues. I’d strongly suggest therapy. If you can’t resolve the underlying issues, what account the tickets come out of is the least of your worries.
Anonymous
I think it should come out of your joint funds. It sounds like spouse A is somehow penalizing spouse B for wanting to visit his family. Visit parents especially usually becomes a mutual shared obligation, esp if it’s just 1-2 x per year. If spouse B wanted to go every month I guess it would be a different story.
Anne Shirley
In general, I think this should be a joint expense. But that means the visiting decision has to be joint too. 4 times a year is a lot- how much is each trip? How big an impact does that have on the budget? His point that they should visit you isn’t unreasonable, even if practically it isn’t working. I wouldn’t appreciate my spouse leaving me to go see his parents twice a year without me at my expense when I thought it was excessive.
OP
Flights aren’t that expensive, as flights go — about $230 most of the time (holiday travel can be crazy expensive for the distance, like $400 each, but we tend to avoid those times). As for my parents coming to us, they don’t have much money and so that isn’t really feasible for them. (This is another point of contention because my MIL is fairly well-off. My husband gets frustrated and feels that my parents made poor life choices and that’s why they can’t afford to come visit us, and feels that it shouldn’t be our responsibility to pay for travel because they didn’t take paths in life that led to having more money.) Plus, as I mentioned, I have a lot of extended family back in my home city and so if they come visit me, I see only them, but if I go visit them, I get to see everyone.
Anon
“My husband gets frustrated and feels that my parents made poor life choices and that’s why they can’t afford to come visit us, and feels that it shouldn’t be our responsibility to pay for travel because they didn’t take paths in life that led to having more money.”
Hold the phone.
That is a piss-poor attitude. You aren’t asking to pay for a lavish lifestyle for your parents – you’re asking for plane tickets to visit them.
Holy h*ll I’m mad FOR you.
And for context – my SO’s parents actually did make poor life choices when it came to saving/spending that will result in us having to take care of them, to an extent, quite soon. It’s secretly a bit annoying, but NOTHING I would ever (1) throw in my SO’s face or (2) use as a point in an argument. I love him and I’m taking the whole package, spendthrift parents included (with limits/boundaries, of course).
Marilla
Agreed – unacceptable. My parents don’t visit me much because a) they’re older and it’s physically taxing for them, but also b) they don’t have a ton of extra cash. They’re extremely responsible financially and are pretty set for retirement, but are low-income immigrants (in contrast to my in-laws who are established professionals and very well-off). My husband, who grew up privileged, obviously likes his childhood home better as it’s a lovely spacious home with max 4 people at a time, compared to my parents’ smaller house that’s usually holding 8 people. But neither he nor my-inlaws ever makes negative comments about the different situations, and in fact he’s approached me multiple times about providing or saving for financial assistance for my parents.
I think your husband needs to back up a little and step into your shoes/think about things from your and your family’s perspective a little. This sounds like it would make a normal conversation about family visits and family obligations much more difficult. I’m sorry you have to deal with that :(
Interrobanged
To me there is no question that this comes out of the joint accounts. You married him, you married his family, too. I live in a small midwestern city where my husband’s parents are about 10 minutes away. I grew up in NJ, which is a 2.5 hour flight. When we go home (also about 2x per year) or even if I go home alone, it’s part of the cost of being married to my husband and we both bear it.
Though I will add that I do not “get” the whole “discretionary income” thing for spouses. I realize that is a personal choice, it’s just not one we’ve ever made. So we just share everything in a joint account, save whatever we save, pay the bills, and spend (hopefully within budgeted amounts).
New Bride
+1. You both married the other one’s family, too. And the two of you are family.
I confess that neither my DH nor I prefer our in-laws to our own parents, but we visit them with our spouses because we are a family, and our in-laws are part of it.
Also, is it 100% settled that your MIL will never move? I’m an only child, and my mom is single, and she moved across the country to follow me. Now DH and I live in the same town as my mom and his parents, and we are all happy.
hoola hoopa
+1
Regardless of whether he comes (willingly or not), I see this as a joint expense. My husband and I are in a relatively similar position in terms of one family being close, the other family being far, and us being stuck where we are. Short travel to one family is a joint expense, as is long travel to the other family.
I’ve also never really understood the reasoning or logistics of split income for married folks. I agree with anon that this approach seems exhausting.
Anon
All this bean-counting seems like a really miserable way to live.
Gail the Goldfish
I posted this on the weekend thread, but quite late, so I’m trying again in the hopes for more input (Thanks to the couple of people that did respond!). Does anyone live in Wilmington, NC? I am trying to move to North Carolina and was focusing on Raleigh and Charlotte, but an opportunity came up in Wilmington and I don’t really know much about it. If anyone knows about the legal market in particular (as my BF is moving with me and will also need to find a job) that would be helpful. Thanks!
Anon NC
CLT and Raleigh/RTP have far larger legal markets than Wilmington. I think of it like Savannah — a wonderful place to visit, but not enough of a legal market for me to move there with a bigger-city type practice and no real family ties. Charleston also has a bit of that going on. Great places, but more people want to be there than can usually find something. It’s hard enough to find things in CLT these days.
Anonymous
I responded over the weekend but my comment was lost. I have extended family in wilmington and would recommend raleigh/durham over wilmington or charlotte. wilmington is a nice town but it is small and the population is generally less educated/liberal/interesting than the cities.
NC Anon
I’ve spent most of my life up to this point in NC and would agree with the above assessments. Wilmington is considerably smaller than Charlotte or Raleigh/RTP (which is generally thought of to include all three of Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) and in some ways is a college town, so the population skews younger and more transitory, to say nothing of vacationers. If the comparison helps, Wilmington is sort of like the Asheville of coastal NC (a bit larger than Asheville), but without much of the quaint local flair garnering so much attention right now.
The Wilmington legal market is pretty small, comparatively, and is limited to local and a few NC/regional firms. To my knowledge, no large firms have outposts there. I generally think of Charlotte as somewhat finance-centered and RTP as somewhat technology-centered; Wilmington really has no specific analog. I would suspect most of the attorneys in Wilmington are from NC or at least NC schools, which is not nearly so often the case in RTP or Charlotte.
Wilmington is a nice spot, especially if you like the beach, but I would be much happier in either the Charlotte or RTP legal market.
Gail the Goldfish
Thanks, everyone! That’s kind of what I thought the answer might be…
Marilla
Has anyone in Toronto spotted vets selling poppies? I usually see quite a few by the end of October but haven’t bumped into any at the usual locations lately. It feels wrong walking around without a poppy (normally by now I would have lost 2 already!). Any tried and true locations?
Equity's Darling
We’re overrun with poppies in Calgary, so I’m sure yours will be out soon enough?
Nonny
Ditto in Vancouver. I finally got mine this morning after feeling guilty walking past the poppy sellers in the latter half of last week. Today I just couldn’t do it any more. They are everywhere. I would have thought they’d be hanging out in the PATH, etc….
Marilla
They usually are! They seem to be in hiding this year. I’ll assume they’ll crop up closer to the 11th. Thanks :)
Anon
At first I thought your comment was about veterinarians selling puppies->poppies and I was so, so confused.
Miss Behaved
Me too!
Cb
Me too and I thought that seemed like an ethical issue.
Another Anon
Me too! I was super concerned about the line losing two also…
ohc
Word.
TBK
I’m guessing this is an Armistice Day thing (that’s what you call it, right, like they do in Europe? or is it Veterans’ Day like it is here?) but I’m curious since it’s a custom I’ve never heard of before. What are the poppies about? (Also curious because I’ll be in Canada this weekend.)
Nonny
The poppies are sold by the war vets by donation, and people wear them for Remembrance Day, which is November 11. The poppies are a symbol of Remembrance Day because of the poppies that grow in Flanders Fields. November 11 is a holiday here and many people go to Remembrance Day ceremonies at their local cenotaph.
The poem “In Flanders Fields” was written by a Canadian, Lt.-Col. John McCrae, in WWI, and schoolchildren here learn it at an early age.
New Bride
What’s a cenotaph? Like a local war memorial statue area? We have those in the US.
First Year Anon
Poppies are for Remembrance Day (like your veterans day)- a Canadian soldier wrote a poem called “In Flander’s Field” that talks about the poppies amongst the crosses of the dead soldiers.
Nonny
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
cbackson
See also: the saddest Peanuts special of all time (“What Have We Learned, Charlie Brown?”).
Equity's Darling
TBK, if you’re around on Monday, the general custom is to pause and have a minute of silence at 11am on the 11th.
pilates princess
Just FYI, Americans wear poppies for Memorial Day to remember the fallen.
Anonymous
No poppies here and I feel weird not wearing one.
First Year Anon
They are definitely out in Toronto! I had one, lost it (just like you said).
I see them near union station on the way to work. Check out the PATH!
Marilla
Thanks!
Merabella
Having trouble focusing at work. My flaky office mate – who never shows up for a full week of work is out again. How do you stay motivated when the people around you obviously couldn’t care less?
Susie
Someone was asking about trouser jeans a few days ago. If you happen to be petite, these just went on sale at Nordstroms: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jag-jeans-elisha-trouser-jeans-petite-dark-storm/3503129?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=&resultback=2122&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-browseresults-_-1_6_A. I just ordered a pair myself, haven’t seen them in person but figured they’re worth a try at this price.
Paging Kat G
Kat – there’s a pretty questionable ad showing up in the sidebar for me, and I’d like to send you a screenshot, but can’t find your email address on the site – can you post? Thanks!
Marilla
Try through the tech report page? https://corporette.com/tech/
preg 3L
Under the new comment box, there is a tech problems option which allows you to submit a screenshot.
Anonymous
stop looking at weird stuff :)
Recipe TJ
Family get-togethers are coming up and I drew the short straw for cooking by means of being reasonably competent in the kitchen. However, various issues mean that the menu this year needs to be:
-gluten-free
-lactose-free
-fructose-free
-low fat
-with a vegetarian option
Oh, and feed three college/just out of college boys with stereotypical palates. Help?
Anon
This screams POTLUCK.
New Bride
What’s “fructose-free”?
CapHillAnon
Or, yes, potluck!
NOLA
I had a friend who didn’t eat gluten or lactose. I made this side dish for Thanksgiving and it was a huge hit: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Wild-Rice-with-Butternut-Squash-Leeks-and-Corn-350425
CapHillAnon
Wow. My family has all kinds of food restrictions, and yours is a tall order! I can’t help with meat suggestions, but how about:
Roasted root vegetables (sweet potatoes, carrots, yukon golds, beets) with olive oil, salt, and rosemary;
Sauteeed spinach with lemon juice and pine nuts;
Mashed potatoes made with lactose free milk or yogurt butter (which I think is low- or no-lactose);
Butternut squash roasted and mashed with sage, or made into a soup;
Risotto (naturally gluten-free, and the arborio breaks down to make it creamy even without dairy. You can use it as a base to add in meat or vegetables).
For dessert, how about strawberries with whipped cream on the side? Or baked apples, or cider sorbet, or roasted plums drizzled with honey.
Ho Hum
I’ve read NGDGTCO and Lean In and both have some “wow” points for me. But then I’ve reached a point where I’m just exhausted by the whole principle of carefully schooling my actions in order to project the right professional image – am I tilting my head when I say this, am I giving b*tch face accidentally, I need to come off this way and not that way with my argument here, I need to contribute to this discussion in a solid technical way, but not be apologetic nor too arrogant.
Am I going to reach a point where all of this is natural, or is my professional life one big over-analyzing battle? Blah.