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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 319 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Fit & Flare Sweater Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. navy-sweater-dress-fit-flare-2I was looking for more affordable options to the blue dress we posted yesterday and found this beauty — and I like it enough to feature it by itself. I like the contrast cuffs, the zipper in the back (exposed, yes, but I hope it means the dress will retain its shape), and the fact that the dress isn't too va-va-voom the way some sweater dresses can be, and isn't too little-girl-princess-party the way some fit and flare dresses can be. I'd wear it with a long pendant necklace, a shorter but substantial necklace (pearls would work but a thin gold strand would be too little I think), or a brooch. The dress is handwashable, available in regular, petite, and plus sizes, and is $139. Vince Camuto Fit & Flare Sweater Dress Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

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Comments

  1. Cat

    Hmm… I like the color and length, but the sweatshirt-style neckline would keep this in “weekend” category for me.

    • nona

      Do you mean the raglan sleeves? Or the ribbed neckline? Either of which are really normal construction techniques you can find in many sweater options.

      Raglan sleeves are perfectly appropriate for the office. Terrycloth or other casual fabrics that are used in sweatshirts is what would move it into the realm of inappropriate.

      • Cat

        The combination — raglan sleeves are fine by themselves, but the way the seams are puffed up with obvious heavy stitching says “sweatshirt” to me.

        • nona

          Yeah, no.

          The stitches along the raglan sleeve seams are a knit stitch used for knitted sweaters because the row of stitches is coming in at an angle and not something you would ever see on a sweatshirt, since a sweatshirt is not a knitted garment. To me, those pretty clearly say sweater.

      • Ellen

        I like this, especially b/c of the A-line look, which gives me a littel more wiggle room for my tuchus. I tried a size 2 on yesterday and it was to small. I was MORTIFIED. I stopped walking this week b/c of a bunion I have on my foot and already my tuchus is out of control. FOOEY!

        Does anyone in the HIVE know if I can get access to the Wall Street Journal on line? I do NOT have a subscription but need to get some atricels — I do NOT want to have to go to the Pubic library either, b/c the librariens do NOT like to help me. DOUBEL FOOEY!

    • Bonnie

      I agree. For me it’s it the combo of the crewneck and the sweatshirt-like exposed seams.

    • anon.

      I agree. I love this one. I clicked over to check it out and sadly, it is only 36″ long. Way too short for me :(

  3. Negativity

    I love the look of this dress, but the exposed zipper might be a dealbreaker.

    I have struggled with being a negative person my whole life. We can probably chalk it up to early childhood trauma, but it’s something that I have not overcome in adulthood. I’ve made efforts over the years to complain less, to avoid letting venting become toxic, to make positive new friendships and spend less time on negative ones, etc., but in times of stress, I can feel the old ways creeping in. Are there any more formal books I can read or tools I can use to try to overcome this problem for good? My best friend, who is even more negative than me, went on such a toxic self-pity, complaining streak yesterday that it occurred to me that if I am even half as bad, that’s a big problem I need to work on all the time (and yes, I’m working on limiting my time with her/disengaging from the negative complaining sessions). Any ideas to help me achieve more permanent change?

    • anon8

      Would journaling help? You could vent by putting your thoughts on paper instead of complaining to people. Along those same lines, maybe write down things you are thankful for or good things that happened during the day.

      I can relate though. I’m definitely a glass half empty type of person. Interested in reading other responses.

      • anon a mouse

        A gratitude journal. Start small – end each day thinking about one thing that went well or that you’re thankful for. Work up to 3-5 things. It doesn’t have to be overwhelming or a Big Thing – just something small that helps you end the day being thankful and thinking positively.

        • nutella

          This was going to be my suggestion, too. You could also start your day with gratitude, too. Maybe it would be helpful not only to limit your interactions with a toxic friend, but try to spend more time with a positive and optimistic friend or volunteer so you start to see life a little rosier and richer.

      • CountC

        +1 It took me a combination of therapy, depression meds, meditation, exercise, meditation, and yoga to get this resolved for me. I am now pretty optimistic! This amazes the people who knew me back when I was a miserable person to be around. I certainly have my gripes from time to time, but I am leaps and bounds better than I used to be at letting it roll of my back and not complaining outwardly to people. I also cut all of the negative and toxic people out of my life which made a HUGE difference.

    • Ck

      Avoiding relationships/time spent with other people who encourage these tendencies has been my most effective approach.

      Have you talked with your best friend about this? Maybe you guys can support each other here and work on this together?

      Unfortunately, my fanily is this way, and because of their health issues I have to spend a lot of time around them in stressful circumstances. My only way to avoid the negative is to work on stress reduction techniques, since stress makes it worse. Mindfulness, exercise, taking walks, getting outside, listening to more music, escaping with books/good TV all help me.

      I sympathize, and admire you for acknowledging this and trying to improve. You are very self aware, and in my experience many like us… are not.

      • June

        +1 to the part about limiting time with people not supporting (even if this lack of support is unintentional or comes from a lack of awareness) your conscious effort to work on becoming a better, less negative version of yourself

      • Negativity

        We have both talked about it and we both want to change (me a bit more than her), but she’s understandably not able to do that as strongly right now due to a death in the family. I think it would still help if we could both cut down on the mindless complaining, though – that’s different from grief.

        • CountC

          Yes, to me grief is different than being toxic and complaining. I know plenty of people who have experienced death in their families but responded with what I would consider healthy grief and sadness vs. turning it into a toxic why does this stuff happen to me all the time, woe is me, life is terrible session.

        • Ck

          I would strongly encourage her to find a grief support group online or in person. This is one circumstance where pulling away from her would be too harsh. But she needs a better outlet for dealing with her grief.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      +1 to both journaling and therapy.

      Also, I’ve had success with a sort of DIY cognitive behavior therapy trick – every time I have a negative thought (or say a negative thing) I force myself to think (or say) something positive about whatever I just criticized – i.e. if you’re thinking something mean about someone, force yourself to identify a positive thing about them, or if you’re complaining about your job, force yourself to come up with a few things you like about it as well.

      My H also has us doing this thing where we take time at the end of every day to list out five things from the day that we’re grateful for – it can be big things, but also really small ones, basically, just five things you’re glad you had/didn’t have/did/saw/didn’t have to do/didn’t see/etc. for the day. (And it’s ok if certain things are constant – our dog makes both our lists every day!). We’ve been doing it for awhile now, and I find myself having random thoughts of gratitude throughout the day now, which never would’ve happened to me before.

    • Laura B

      Book suggestions:

      The Happiness Project – super popular with it’s own set of criticisms, but I liked it.
      You Are A Badass – read this book this year and LOVE it.

      Also, I actually made a #happyeverydamnday worksheet this year for at work. I print out a new one every week, and there are daily sections for different things that studies show promote happiness and positivity. So every day I fill out:

      -grateful: write down three new things that you are grateful for each day
      -reflect: journal about a positive experience you’ve had recently for two minutes once a day
      -meditate: watch your breath go in and out for two minutes a day
      -kindness: take a moment to go out of your way to be kind to someone else

      I got the sections from a TED talk that I can’t remember the name of right now. It included exercise for 15 minutes, but since this is for work I left that off my worksheet.

    • Nancy Raygun

      It sounds like you’re at the beginning the journey I’m on. I’ll add that in an attempt to be more positive and trusting, I made a lot of mistakes. I found myself falling in with negative people and giving them chances they didn’t deserve. I felt bad about cutting people out of my life because all they were bringing me was garbage and keeping me in my negative headspace. I just let a friend go over the same stuff, but if you can focus on what you’re adding to your life, like positive attitudes, new and better relationships, and self-esteem, it helps.

    • In-House in Houston

      Thank you for your post. I’m married to a man like this. What’s worse is that he seems to have no filter and just says what he wants and damn the consequences or hurt feelings. We’ve been married 10+ years and I’m seriously thinking about ending the marriage. I find myself increasingly isolated. Friends don’t invite us over anymore because he’s just a jerk. He’s incredibly sweet to me, but I just can’t take it any more. Is it unfair for me to have put up with it for so long and to now, have a problem with him?

      • anon

        You can always withdraw consent, no matter the circumstances. Also, the phrase “the straw that broke the camel’s back” comes to mind. At some point, even really minor things that were bearable can build up so much over time as to become intolerable.

      • Anonymous

        Not more unfair than you’re being to yourself if you stay in a marriage that you’re miserable in because you put in ten years so you owe him more?

      • Anonymous

        Have you seriously sat him down, explained to him what it does, how it makes you feel, how it has affected your friends…. and then see what he says? You can say you don’t think you can continue living like this, and that it is starting to make you more negative and depressed.

        I have a close relative like this. It took a medication for depression (he refused therapy), regular feedback from me when his behavior is inappropriate (calmly telling him when he says something inappropriate, walking away from him when he needs a time-out, and seeing friends without him), and a bit of empathy from me, as I saw where his behavior came from (a lot of it is genetic and learned from his family growing up)

    • Violet

      “Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates:

      At the first gate, ask yourself “Is is true?”

      At the second gate ask, “Is it necessary?”

      At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?”

      ~ Rumi

      So, in this case when you see this dress. 2. Yes, it’s true that you don’t like the back zipper for your style. 2. How is that comment useful to this community/post? It’s not really, so then you step back. It’s definitely a tricky thing to reform habits but with time and effort you can do it! :)

  4. Anonymous

    Old white male (finance exec) told young female (staff accountant) to dish out a plate of food for him (telling her exactly what food he would like) after the meeting. She did so happily and delivered the food to his office. Another time, she picked up his silverware, took it to the office kitchen and washed it.

    I am new member of this small team. However, seeing this kind of behavior seems inappropriate. Thoughts?

    • Emmer

      I can think of a couple of ways to remedy the situation –

      1) I assume the exec has an actual assistant that should be doing these things? If so, maybe explain to the young accountant that she really shouldn’t be responsible for doing that, and suggest that next time she offer to go get exec’s assistant and have assistant help him out.

      2) If you’re senior enough, talk to a trusted person that is at the same level as or senior to exec to see if they can talk some sense into him. I don’t think you could go to HR though on the accountant’s behalf if it doesn’t actually bother her.

      • Anonymous

        I am an entry level employee so I can’t say anything. He has an old lady assistant that he shares with two other execs so I don’t think he would tell her to do these kind of tasks.

        • JayJay

          If you’re entry level, I don’t think there’s much you can do about this specific situation. I would recommend that you file it away and mentally mark it as something to consider about this company and about that exec.

        • Emmer

          Ah, yeah, I had assumed you were more senior. I don’t think there’s much you can do then, unfortunately.

          • asdf

            What do you do if you’re in this situation? I wouldn’t want to refuse to do something asked by a senior person, but I also wouldn’t want to do this.

          • nona

            Deliberately misunderstand
            “I want XYZ Food”
            “Oh, I think the plates are over there.”
            “Can you fill one up for me?”
            “I’d rather not.”

    • anon

      Terrible, but also not your battle. Sit this one out and make notes for the future.

      • Anonymous

        What should you do if you are in this position? I don’t think it’s ideal to just refuse to do something a senior person asks you, but wouldn’t want to do this either.

          • Anon

            When similar things happen to me, I try to make light of it while making it clear I won’t do it. “Aww shucks, they didn’t teach me food service in MBA school (big smile)– maybe (assistant’s name) can help with that! (big smile)”

        • JayJay

          “I’ll let your assistant know that you need some help.” Or something to that effect.

  5. Anon

    Could someone recommend an article or source that outlines the legal landscape around the Standing Rock protest? Most of the pieces I’m finding are from news sources I’m not familiar with and seem very partisan. Thanks!

    • KitKit

      I listened to a helpful discussion on On Point, an NPR podcast. Mostly an interview with a Seattle Times reporter who has been there for much of it, and some other participants and historians — slightly biased, but not overwhelmingly so.

  6. AnonA

    I need to replace my work bag. I am looking for something roomy enough to carry a few legal size file folders. (I’ve looked at plenty of bags that seem like they would work for standard size files, but wouldn’t be long enough for legal sized.)

    I want nylon or something similarly lightweight and I need handles or a strap that is long enough for me to carry the bag on my shoulder.

    Does anybody have a bag like this to recommend?

    • Anne Shirley

      If your budget allows, Longchamp has a great selection beyond their classic one-pouch nylon tote. Some of their leather bags are swoon-worthy (zippers, can hold a laptop, thicker straps for shoulder comfort, etc.)

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      MZ Wallace has bags big enough to fit the bill – I have the Kate and it works for legal-size folders, and I think the Metro tote and probably a few of their other biggest bags would work as well. The handles on the Kate are big enough to fit over my shoulder, and I’m pretty sure all (or nearly all) of their bags come with a cross-body strap you can add or remove as well.

    • ChiLaw

      I have the Baggallini A La Carte Travel Tote (available on amazon). It’s not super fashion-y, but I think it checks off all your boxes. I like that it’s lightweight and it has held up surprisingly well — I am not gentle with my bags. It has an outside water bottle pocket and a luggage sleeve thing for when I’m traveling with a rolling bag. I have it in a pewter color with a hot pink lining, which makes finding stuff inside really easy.

    • MJ

      The Victorinox Divine tote. It’s amazing. And the straps look thin, but they are strong and comfy on your shoulder. It has a million thoughtful pockets. A cute lining. And it definitely fits legal-sized redwelds.

  7. Two Cents

    The waist on this dress looks really high.

    Reposting in the hope of getting a response. Any suggestions for a comfortable T-shirt to wear to bed, preferably that can be shipped through Amazon prime? I’m currently wearing ratty nursing shirts that I need to toss. Looking for sturdy, thick material, tailored but not body con (have a pooch), and short sleeved.

    Any ideas?

    • Anonymous

      I like the Everlane basic tees for sleeping (I prefer the U-necks because they’re looser, you might find the tailored fit you’re looking for in the V- or crew-neck ones).

    • JayJay

      It’s Target and not Amazon Prime, but I’d recommend the Gillian O’Malley line of sleep shirts there. They’re very soft and have held up very well for me for years now.

  8. Jeffiner

    I was thinking of getting my 17-year-old cousin some earrings for Christmas, but I have no idea what style. She lives in NYC and is very into fashion and trends, and I really have no idea what is “in” right now. Does anyone have any suggestions?

  9. Anonny

    We were issued a cash refund from a car dealer for a double payment on a very murky insurance/warranty claim on our car. It was odd to us to receive the check, but they said it was ours so we deposited said check for multiple hundreds of dollars months ago. We just got a letter in the mail saying that it was issued to us in error and they want the money back. WTF. Do we legally owe them the money back? We didn’t get a bill, but a typed letter from the dealership business manager along with a copy of the signed deposited check, and some other internal communication showing/proving it was issued erroneously. She “kindly requests we return the money.”

    • Anon

      This happened to a client of my firm — they did have to return the money. In their case, the paperwork made it clear that it was issued by mistake and they should’ve known that the money was supposed to go to the dealer, not them.

    • Anne Shirley

      Not a legal expert, but on the ethics/right thing to do side of things: if the documentation they provided shows they screwed up, I think you should return the money. Yes, they made an error, but that error didn’t harm you. It only caused an annoyance.

      • techgirl

        +1

        I once accidentally put in the incorrect account number when sending some money online (was meant for my mother). Technically the person who received it (equivalent of $500) could have kept it and I would of have to push through small claims court to get it back. It was the week before Christmas and I was SO grateful when they returned it immeadiately when asked by the bank.

      • Anonny

        Yes, because some people around here don’t make bucket loads of money. We did our due diligence – followed up, asked questions – when check was received. We were assured it was ours, so we deposited it and used it. Months later a giant chain of car dealers in my region, for which I’m confident this is a drop in the bucket, is asking for it back. We can’t just cut an $800 check overnight – that’s hugely meaningful money to us. So, yes, I am asking the question.

        • Anonymous

          Doing the right thing, as difficult as it is sometimes, has nothing to do with your level of income or the success of the dealership. If it was an error, return it.

    • bridget

      I suspect that it depends on the laws in your state, the insurance paperwork, and perhaps a few other factors.

      My suggestion is to set up a payment plan with the dealership.

      • Marise

        Here is what I would do. I would tell them that you did due diligence in getting confirmation from them that it was yours, you relied on their assurances, and then deposited it and then spent it. I would then offer to reimburse them for 30%by check immediately, or whatever you haven’t spent back, or in the alternative to set up a five year payment plan. My bet is that they go for the lower amount, just to be done with it because setting up a payment plan or going to small claims court is a pain.

        • Anon

          +1. Do you have copies of emails or documents where they assured you it was yours in the first place? If so, I would explain that you relied on those documents and spent it. Ask them what changed, why their documentation is different this time, and if they push more, then offer either a 15-20% of the money (whatever you can afford now) or ask for a 5-year repayment plan.

  10. Anonymous

    Thoughts on matching bathroom cabinets/countertops to the kitchen? We’re renovating a bathroom and the contractor suggested trying to match our kitchen (espresso brown cabinets and light cream granite). That seems kind of weird to me, because a) we can’t get an exact match on the granite for sure, since every slab is unique and b) I feel like everything matching will give our house a very cheap look, like we got a deal on those materials and so we used them throughout. But I also want to do something that coordinates and looks put together and like we had a cohesive design plan for the house, and didn’t just throw one room together a time. How do you coordinate finishes without being super matchy-matchy?

    • Marshmallow

      I am anti-matching. I agree with you, seems like a higher-end finish to coordinate but not match. As I say this, I’m remembering that my rental apartment has pure white stone counters in both the kitchen and bathroom and it’s never bothered me…. but granite with a lot of grain in it always screams “kitchen” to me, while stark white or smaller grains seem better for a bathroom.

      My mom’s in the design industry and I’ve never seen her match kitchen and bathroom counters, if that helps.

    • Anonymous

      It’s a look I’ve seen but I don’t like it. It reads very builder basic to me. I don’t like being reminded of my bathroom when I’m in the kitchen. I tend to match the bathrooms (mostly out of design laziness and because I prefer lots of white in bathrooms) but keep the kitchen a different color scheme.

      • Anon in NOVA

        ^this. Looks very “builder basic” or “we just redid our home as cheaply and quickly as possible to throw on the market”

    • Laura B

      Agree – I don’t like the look and think it looks very builder basic/contractor designed.

      I don’t think the color of the cabinets matter so much as the style. A super modern floating bathroom vanity is going to look weird in a house with a traditional kitchen. But black, white, or a wood vanity that belong to the same design style (although not a totally match) would be totally normal to me.

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s fine to coordinate them if you want a cohesive look. If you use different unusual granite colors in both rooms, it can look a bit strange, like a middle aged person updated them a few years apart. It can also look fine to use different colors.

      • Middle aged

        I’ve been puzzling over this comment for a while but can’t figure it out. I’m not a fan of highly patterned granite to begin with, so I wouldn’t use it in a bathroom. BUT what does using two different patterns in a kitchen and bath have to do with being middle aged? Also, what’s wrong with redoing a kitchen and bath at different times? Overly coordinated houses date more quickly.

        • Anonymous

          Middled aged as in you’ve lived in that house for 20 years and updated different rooms at different times in different styles. Your mom’s friend’s kitchen with golden oak cabinets, tumbled marble backsplash, and speckly granite doesn’t go with her modern Ikea bathroom with a matte black slab. It looks like you’ve changed your style every few years and nothing goes together. Coordinating granite isn’t what makes something look cheap, it’s only one element of the room.

          If you want to coordinate though use patterns that go with a the same style of the rest of your house. Something like a white carrera-like granite would go with a matte black slab. But a colonial rose would be very fussy and may not in the same style. I am a fan of more contrast if you’re going with different choices because it is a more intentional look than using something like two different white granites with different patterns. It looks like you tried to match and missed.

    • anon8

      We have the same cabinets throughout the house b/c that was the only option available through our builder. However we did different counters and flooring in the bathroom than the kitchen.

  11. Anonshmanon

    Is the geometric trend done? Semiprecious stones are still going strong. You can pick one that compliments her eyes/hair color.
    If you get smaller earrings or studs, she will presumably get more wear out of them.
    You could give an Etsy gift card, too.

  12. sombra

    Anyone have the sam edelman petty chelsea boot? I’m eyeing the brown ones that are 100 now from Nordstroms… are they comfy? long lasting? Mostly hoping they don’t make me look stumpy and look good with dresses/legging which I wear all fall/winter

    • emeralds

      Wearing them right now with a dress. Love. Wardrobe staple. They go with everything. Could not not live without them from October-April. I got mine two years ago and they’re still going strong. Cannot recommend highly enough, in case you can’t tell :)

    • anon.

      I have them in black suede and wear them all the time. I wear them several times a week, at least, with dresses (and tights) and skinny jeans. Very comfy! And mine have held up well for several years. They probably aren’t the greatest in terms of making my legs look long, but I don’t care that much. I love them.

    • Anonymous

      I have them and I’m not sure I love how they fit my feet – the ankles are wide and my foot slides into the front. I’m getting some tongue pads shipped to put in them, so hopefully that should help with the fit.

    • (Former) Clueless Summer

      I am a huge fan of Sam Edelman which seems to be remarkably good quality for the price and I have lots of shoes (from tall boots to sandals) from them. I wanted to love the Petty boots last winter when I was looking for a pair of ankle boots but they totally stumpified me. Luckily a friend wouldn’t let me buy them and steered to me toward a 1.5/2 inch heel bootie (so slightly higher than the Petty but still walkable and comfy). The Petty’s tiny heel doesn’t help lengthen the leg and I found the shape of the boot was not doing me any favours (made my size 9s look gigantic). I doubt I would wear the Petty with dresses whereas I wear the booties I bought with skirts, dresses, leggings and jeans.

    • ORD

      I have them in black suede and moss green suede. I love them, but I wear them with pants, not skirts/dresses.

    • Anonymous

      I have them in “saddle leather” and wear them all. the. time. Love. They are a bit scuffed, but for the price point I’m still happy (and I’m not particularly easy on my shoes). Thanks for flagging the sale. They’re currently out of stock in my size, but I’m hoping to pick up a black pair.

  13. Cherry Scary

    Momentary brag, since I don’t feel comfortable celebrating to the IRL people around me. Fiancee and I have been working on losing weight and being generally healthier for the last few months, and I hit 25 pounds lost this morning, and have dropped two pants sizes. I still have about 25 more pounds to go to hit my goal weight, but wanted to take a moment to celebrate a minor milestone!

    • Anonymous

      This is awesome! I’ve been seesawing around the same ten pounds for ages and this motivates me to recommit to working on that. I feel so much better when I’m not eating Halloween candy for breakfast every morning!

      • Cherry Scary

        We’re doing WeightWatchers for the diet/eating healthier aspect of it, and I’ve basically approaching it as making sure i eat my daily points while using my fitpoints for special occasions like the 1-2 times a week we’re meeting up with friends. We basically give ourselves permission to have 1 day a week, usually on weekends, where we’re not so concerned about having to be “perfect” in how we’re eating. We both love to cook/try new foods, so finding some WW friendly cookbooks and resources has been helpful.

        We’re both huge geeks, so we’ve started taking walks around a local park 2-3 times a week, and we listen to Dungeons and Dragons play podcasts that are multi-part stories. We’re not allowed to listen to the next episode unless we’re together/on a walk.

    • Yay!

      Congrats to you!! What’s your secret? Diet and exercise, or did you use a program of some kind?

      • Cherry Scary

        See above! Doing WeightWatchers. We also tried Couch to 5K, but we found we both really hate running. (and we did this for about 2-3 months, so it wasn’t like we did it for a week and gave up)

        • JayJay

          Congrats! And solidarity. Every few years, I decide I want to become a runner (I lift and do spinning, etc. regularly). And after a few months, I realize I hate running and it’s just not my thing.

        • anon

          I got a lot better at running after years of amping up my cardio generally. I do a lot of bootcamp type classes but sometimes I just want to squeeze in a quick 30 minutes of cardio when I can’t make it to class. You really can’t beat running when it comes to convenience. Now that I’ve become so much better at cardio, I find it much more doable (though it still sucks) to hit that 5k mark.

    • Jane

      Congratulations! I would not consider 25 pounds lost to be a “minor” milestone. I think that’s a huge accomplishment. And even cooler that you and your fiance are doing it together.

    • AnotherAnon

      Congratulations… :-)

      I day dream about posting something like this here…!

    • a;sldkfj

      Def not a *minor* milestone. 25 lb is the weight of 3 gallons of milk – take a look at them next time you’re at the grocery store and remember you used to carry them everywhere.

  14. Laura B

    To the point: How are you kind to yourself in practice?

    Whole backstory: Generally I’m a pretty happy and active person, but I’ve got stuff going on right now that makes it harder. I’m on month three of Accutane that doesn’t seem to really be working (although I get the great side affects of super chapped lips, bloody noses, and muscle soreness), my job is stressful and I want move on pretty much daily (but agreed to stay another year because it’s family and I do care).

    I’ve posted about these things before (under different handles) and gotten a lot of good specific advice so I’m not looking for that. But something that comes up is to “be kind to yourself”. I think it’s good advice, and this is advice that I give to other people sometimes as well. But what does it actually mean in practice? I can’t tell if I’m giving myself a pass on things when I should just muscle through it, or if I deserve a break. For example, I used to work out 6-7 days of the week – yoga, pilates, ballet, or hiking every day. Lately I’ve been down to 3-4. This last weekend, I skipped my normal yoga morning class and basically did nothing but netflix and pinterest on Saturday. It felt so lazy, but so good too.

    I think part of the problem is that my timelines for the stressful things are strung out – I have another 5 months of Accutane (assuming it works *pleaseworkpleasework*) and another 14 months of the family business. My weekdays are stressful, with what feels like mini-anxiety attacks at times. I feel like I’m going through a lot and need to be kind to myself, but I don’t want to lose my good habits either because I don’t see the overall situation changing for a while.

    • anon.

      For me it means doing what feels good and trying to drop the guilt over it. I also like to stick to a schedule, but if I’m truly tired one day and want to skip a yoga class, I skip it and just reeeealllly enjoy the time relaxing in front of Netflix (or whatever other thing I decided to do instead). Or I also try to eat pretty healthy most of the time, but if I decide to have some chocolate one night, I enjoy the h3ll out of it and try not to think about the calories or what I think I should have done instead. I think it’s okay to give yourself a pass sometimes. Personally, I haven’t lost any of my good habits in allowing myself these breaks. If anything, I enjoy my good habits more – I really throw myself into them when I do them willingly and lovingly, and when they aren’t such a chore or just one more thing I need to cross off my list.
      Another thing I do is 10 minutes of meditation a day. Some days I feel like I don’t have the time, but I know it’s important to carve out the time. Everything else can wait 10 minutes and that time fuels me for the rest of my day. So that’s another way I am kind to myself.

      • Laura B

        This gave me an idea – maybe I’ll try replacing some of my yoga practice (which is normally a vigorous vinyasa flow) with slow feel good yin practice + extended meditating. I’m frustrated that I’m stalled out in my yoga practice, so that might be a way to reinvigorate the habit in a gentler way right now.

        • anon.

          That’s a nice idea. I also usually do power vinyasa, but really like the Yoga With Adriene youtube channel for when I just want to stretch and breathe-deeply and chill out at home. Initially I found them frustrating because I felt like I wasn’t ticking all the boxes I had set up for myself to consider it a “good” yoga practice, but now I’m just really appreciative of how well they clear my head.

        • yellow diamond

          This is a great idea. I also have a regular, vigorous yoga practice and recently started going to yin/restorative classes about once a week. There is no stretching; only relaxing. It is challenging in a different way from my regular practice but also amazing. I emerge from the classes refreshed like I just had a 3 hour snooze. Good luck to you!! And hugs. Being kind to yourself is hard (imho, when the world is constantly telling us we should be better than we already are).

    • anonshmanon

      To me, it means balancing the two things you mention: muscling through and giving myself breaks. In my imagination, it is like siting on a swing, you will be proactive at upswing times and just pinterest all day at downswing times. One is needed for the other to make sense.
      You can do this!

    • anon for this

      Accutane took 6 months for me. That was about 5 years ago and I’ve been clear since :) However, it did hurt my joints and made it more difficult to exercise. Give yourself a break- 3-5 times a week seems like plenty!!

      • Lizzie

        Just chiming in on Accutance. I was on it for 8 months!! Was convinced it wasn’t going to work for me when I hit the 6 month mark with no real results. And then boom. Amazingly clear skin. That was only 5 months ago but have been clear ever since. It really did change my life in so many ways and I would do Accutane again in a second if I had to. Good luck!

        • Laura B

          Thanks for sharing – it’s really encouraging! My derm planned on an eight month course from the beginning, so it’s good to know that there’s still time. The initial breakout was so bad for the first couple months that it was depressing to see it get worse, even though I know that that’s what happens.

      • anonypotamus

        I will chime in with my experience (though granted, it was like 15 years ago so I don’t remember the details). Accutane helped marginally for the 6 months or so when I was on it, and I was so defeated. But after going off it when my regime was completed, my skin cleared up immensely.

        • Laura B

          That’s interesting – I was hoping for a 3 month clear up, which doesn’t seem to be happening. I’ll adjust my hopes to a 6 month clear up now.

    • emeralds

      I practice being kind to myself mostly through mindful self-care and practicing gratefulness. What this means in practice varies from day to day and week to week–sometimes mindful self-care means making myself go for that run, even when I really don’t want to; last Thursday, self-care was skipping the run in order to clean the kitchen and meal prep, and then curling up on the sofa with a beer and The Americans. So sometimes, it’s muscling through: I’ve slept enough, I’m nourished, I’m hydrated, I’m just tired and frustrated from work and I know running will be better for my stress level than cracking open that wine bottle. And other times, it’s giving myself a pass: I didn’t sleep well last night and I’m exhausted, my hip is aching, the state of the kitchen is a source of stress, I’ll be happier at bedtime if I just take 30 minutes to deal with it, and make sure I run tomorrow. For me, it comes down to taking a step back and looking at the situation a little more analytically: What is the actual issue with me right now? What option can I take from my menu of self-care items (running, barre, Netflix, playing with my dog, reading, s*x, wine, etc.) that will best address it?

      And also, accepting that I’m not perfect, and that I’m allowed to not give every single thing in my life my A+ effort level. Running right now: race in two weeks, A+ effort level. Barre right now: you are not my #1 focus so I’m going to be happy with going twice a week until the race is out of the way, B- effort level. Dinner last night: unexpectedly hectic workday, really didn’t feel like cooking, freezer pizza and salad, C. Dinner tonight: have calmer day on calendar, SO can thrown chicken in crockpot before he leaves for work + roast veggies when I get home, A. You know you can keep up those good habits of, e.g., daily workouts; right now you need to focus on maintaining them at the level that nourishes your soul, while also giving yourself the space and mental energy that surviving your next 14 months is going to take.

      • CountC

        +1 to the second paragraph.

        It also means learning to forgive yourself. You didn’t run today and it was on the plan? That’s okay, tomorrow is a new day, forgive yourself and move on. It’s a mindfulness thing too. Doing the best you can with what you have does NOT mean doing everything at an A+ level. It means some things have to give, it means you need to take care of yourself (rest when you need to, don’t stress about the things that are not important, etc.), and it means that you acknowledge and truly understand that no one, including yourself, is perfect. It also means not measuring yourself against ANYONE else. No one is in your exact circumstances, and everyone experiences things differently, so you can’t look at anyone else and compare. It’s not a fair comparison.

        • Laura B

          Comparison is the thief of joy – that was my mantra for a year a couple years ago. Thanks for reminding me of it – will be chewing on the idea that I shouldn’t compare myself to a past or future version of myself, and that when I do I’m robbing the joy from this moment.

          And you guys both got me with the A+ level…the school overachiever in me haaates it when I’m not 100% doing something. The fact of the matter is that it’s just not realistic right now. I’ve got to have faith in myself that this is just a moment in time, not a permanent slump.

    • Anonymous

      For me, it means not being mean to myself. You “only” workout 3-4 times a week? That’s actually great. Tell yourself “great job working out this week and taking time to relax.” Why say “Accutane isn’t working” instead of “Accutane progress underway, not time for results yet.” You post constantly about this family business. You need to make your peace with it. “I choose to stay 14 more months because I value my family and this is how I show it.”

      • Laura B

        You’re right about changing the framing. And also about making my peace with the family business – that struck a cord. I do need to accept it and move forward positively. Easier said than done, but it is my decision to stay.

        • Anonymous

          Right, I don’t mean to suggest it is easy. But necessary. It always feels hokey to me but when I force myself to do positive self talk it does work.

          • Laura B

            You’re absolutely right, and it’s not hokey at all. I really believe that we’re responsible for framing our own situations and the way we think, and I’m letting a lot of external things override that lately for me. Thank you for your post!

      • Godzilla

        Yeah, seriously. I’m exhausted just reading all the things you do. You’re awesome and will continue to be awesome. Maybe you can give yourself a minimum number of workouts per week or month that you choose to adhere to so that you don’t feel bad when you miss one or two.

    • anon

      Accutane can do a number on one’s mental health/well-being. Being kind to yourself might involve discussing with your doctor if Accutane might be the cause of feeling not so great.

      • Laura B

        Good point, and this is something that I’ve been trying to track. I don’t think I can attribute the feelings to Accutane, as much as the work situation, since they started before Accutane. But definitely something I’m paying attention to, and when I get down on myself trying to repeat to myself positive affirmations would be a good daily reminder.

    • APL

      I am struggling with the same things – very stressful situation at work as the only experienced person on my team with no end in sight and my free time is consumed by grad school applications. I carve out time for the things that are most important to get me through each day – sleep and exercise. Even if it’s 20 minutes of Pilates or yoga at home instead of my usual running and lifting is positive because it’s helping me mentally and physically and I don’t feel guilty for sitting on the couch for the rest of the night if I need that. I’ve also found that leaning on others and being less of a martyr has been really important – just because I can do something faster/better/easier doesn’t mean I need to shoulder every burden when I don’t have the capacity to do so. I’ve asked my partner to help with responsibilities he usually doesn’t handle (I love to cook but having an empty fridge and no time for anything except takeout adds to my stress) and have delegated projects to others on my team that they can handle (even though I could it faster, not doing it at all is better in the long run). Realizing that it all doesn’t have to fall on me (and having supportive people in my life) has helped me focus on getting the important things done without being crushed by stressed every day. Good luck, and you’ll get through it!

      • Laura B

        “I’ve also found that leaning on others and being less of a martyr has been really important – just because I can do something faster/better/easier doesn’t mean I need to shoulder every burden when I don’t have the capacity to do so.”

        Uff, that’s been what I’ve been trying to work on at work. Delegation, let go, delegation, let go, delegation.

        • APL

          I’ve been doing it outside work too – there’s no reason my partner who has plenty of free time can’t pick up more than his fair share during difficult times (and I’d do the same for him). I’ve been travelling a lot and there are certain things I do weekly that my partner would never think to do on his own, so I’ll say I’ll take care of X this week, you always handle Y and it would be a huge help if you could do Z while I’m gone and it’s made a much bigger difference that I expected. A clean, organized house makes me calm and happy, and I don’t realize how much it affects my moods to have things pile up, be dirty, etc. and I can spend time on myself during the week with fewer weekly tasks hanging over my head.

  15. TikiB

    I started a new job about 4 months ago, and I keep making mistakes. Small ones (missing a slip sheet on a filing). Big ones (missing a point of a contract in my analysis). I know I’m a better lawyer than this, but I’m freaking out. I think part of it is the stress of changing jobs (I was at my old firm for many years, and while the work is similar, the culture is very different), stress in my personal life (my husband and I are separated, I’m basically raising a toddler on my own), and severe understaffing that prevents me from devoting sufficient time to projects. Help? Advice? Right now I’m so terrified about my latest mistake that I can barely function. It also doesn’t help that the junior partner keeps asking me how I made this mistake, a question for which I have no good answer.

    • Anonymous

      Generally I believe you shouldn’t bring your personal life into the office, but this is a situation where it might be helpful to let them know about the separation and (if applicable) why your husband is not participating in the child care. I think most people understand that separation/divorce and raising a child on your own are very difficult, and giving your supervisors some context about what’s going on in your personal life might make them a little understanding. And take longer on projects. Let them write off your time. It’s better to take 20 hours doing something that they would expect would take 10 than to do it in 10 and make a stupid mistake. Once you’ve gotten the mistakes under control, you can focus on efficiency (and raise the staffing issue at that point if you believe it’s a significant contributing factor).

      • Anonymous

        I would not bring up your personal life.

        But I second the advice to take longer on projects

      • Senior Attorney

        I went through something similar when my first husband and I split. A partner I trusted advised me to let the firm know what was going on. There is not unilmited patience and goodwill for things like this, but there is some. And it’s better for them to know that it’s temporary and situational than for them to think that you’re just careless and a screwup.

        I’d suggest telling the partner what is going on. And also, if child care is an issue, maybe take a bit of time off to get some better backup plans in place if that would help.

        Hugs to you. I’ve been there and it sucks but you will get through it.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      The best way to help yourself here is to come up with a plan for preventing the mistakes in the future – the partner is asking how you made the mistake because the partner is trying to figure out what can be done to prevent it from happening again. If the answer is “I was distracted and I didn’t have enough time to review because of X, Y, and Z,” the plan needs to be something like “make time for additional review by getting an extension for X and training my assistant/a paralegal/a junior to do Y” or “meeting with partner sooner to determine priorities when it’s clear I need more time for X and it’s going to affect my ability to meet the deadlines for Y and Z.”

      Mistakes happen, and they’re not the end of the world, but if your own plan for dealing with them is “be generically and non-specifically better next time while stewing in totally counterproductive anxiety about how I keep making mistakes,” that’s not going to help. Identify what went wrong, identify what you need to fix it, and talk to the partner about how that need can be met.

    • Anon

      “Sever understaffing” could be the problem. I think it may be a good opportunity to bring this up to your partner and see if there are ways to provide you with more assistance for clerical tasks. Don’t bring up your personal life although I’m very sorry, that must be incredibly difficult.

  16. Anonymous

    I like my company but I really don’t like my boss or work content. Expectations are vague, feedback nonexistent, and we have terrible communication,

    Anyone been in this situation? I’m trying to decide if I can salvage the situation or if I should try to find another role in the company (it is huge; I can find something).

    • techgirl

      Either find a new role, or find a mentor who can develop you in your current role.

    • Anonymous4

      This is me. After two years of trying to salvage, and being in a small company with no where to go, I just accepted a new position in a different company and I could not feel better about it. YMMV, but moving on for me was the absolute best choice I could have made.

  17. AIMS

    I think I hate all my clothes. Work, non-work, I just feel so ‘meh’ in everything. Obviously, getting an all new wardrobe isn’t an option. I think part of the problem might be that with the baby crawling all over the place and needing my constant attention I have so little time to get dressed now and to make things feel interesting with accessories or makeup/nails that I just always end up putting on something that doesn’t feel quite right and then running out the door. Thoughts on how to fix? I’m so sick of feeling dowdy.

    • Anonymous

      I hear you on the no time to dress intentionally with a small baby front. And I also find myself getting bored with my clothes in autumn for some reason.

      Do your clothes all fit well? If not, can you get them tailored?

      Can you spend some money of a few interesting pieces to pair with basics?

        • Anonymous

          Me too! It is so hard to find clothes that have an autumnal look but aren’t too warm to wear in the fall, especially tops. For fall I like lightweight cotton sweaters or popover-style blouses in fall colors with 3/4 or long sleeves, but these are hard to find. I have plenty of lovely cashmere sweaters, but I can only wear those January – March.

      • AIMS

        I think fit is part of the problem. I am about 5-8 lbs below my “regular” weight which is not quite enough to require me to size down and get new stuff but enough to make all my clothes fit sort of sloppy. I should probably tailor some but I was waiting until I stopped nursing to see if I would gain the weight back. Maybe I will take in a couple of pieces.

    • Anonymous

      I completely understand. I like adding fresh flowers to my home and office when I feel meh all the time. Even if my clothes are the problem, having something beautiful to look at seems to help. Also, consider whether you have too many mirrors in your house, and/or could take one or two down for a little while. One time when I moved, I took a very long time to put up mirrors, and I was shockingly far happier for that time.

      • AIMS

        I’m sick of my house too! We are going to be moving soon so everything is just a mess and I have zero motivation to improve it. Maybe I can fix up my office instead. Ugh – I think I am just sick of everything.

    • TO Lawyer

      Can you spend a few minutes before you go to bed picking out clothes? I am childless but I find that’s the best way to make sure I’m wearing outfits and not just a skirt and a top. I’m terrible at actually doing it but when I give some advanced thought to it, I always end up looking better.

      I think frumpy is sometimes related to fit – how do your clothes fit you?

      Also – how’s your accessory/jewelry game? It takes 5 seconds to throw on a long necklace but makes your outfit look 100 times more interesting and intentional.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      Getting an “all-new wardrobe” might actually be an option – you sound like the perfect candidate for minimalist-type capsule wardrobes. I use capsules, and I own about 80% less clothing than I used to, and yet I feel great in everything. I managed the overhaul of both work and weekend wardrobes for about $800 (and it would’ve been less but I work in a suits-always office, so there are 4 new suits in that number). You’re probably not in a suits-always office so I don’t know that my work capsule will help you, but here’s my weekend capsule:

      3 long-sleeve, tunic-length t-shirts (white, black, and striped – $12-15 each at Target)
      4 tunic-length camisoles ($8 each at Old Navy)
      Dark blue skinny jeans (already owned like five pairs, I kept the one pair that fit)
      Black skinny jeans (already owned 2 pairs, I kept the one that fit)
      Medium blue wide-leg jeans (the Old Navy “flare” jeans, $35)
      Long drapey sweater vest in tan ($25ish at the LOFT outlet)
      Olive “cargo” vest (don’t laugh, I found it at Charlotte Russe for $18)
      Heavy long open black cardigan (got it like two years ago at Target and it still looks good, probably spent $20-30)
      Plaid button-down (Old Navy, $15ish on sale)
      Chambray button-down (Old Navy, $15ish on sale)
      Gray oversized sweater (got it at Nordstrom a few years ago, don’t remember what it cost)
      For shoes, I have a pair of casual gray suede knee boots, a pair of combat-style ankle boots, and a pair of chunky-heeled ankle boots, plus some ballet flats for the warmer part of the fall and winter boots for, you know, actual winter. I also do wear scarves pretty regularly, which I think helps with making it look like my wardrobe is more varied than it actually is, but scarves are optional (and maybe a bad idea with a baby who could accidentally choke you with them?).

      The key to a good capsule is making sure that everything fits you perfectly, as you are in your current body. It does you no good to wear a $200 cashmere sweater if the sweater is a size too small. Conversely, I get tons of compliments on some of my cheapest outfits, because everything fits and looks intentional (even though, when you really break it down, I’m basically wearing $30 jeans, a $10 t-shirt, a $20 vest, and some boots – not exactly “exciting” or “fancy” stuff).

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        Thanks KMO.

        Also, I forgot to add – everything I own matches everything else, so it’s basically like Garanimals for adults – I can pull out any shirt, any pair of pants, any topper (cardigan or sweater vest or cargo vest), and just put it on, and it all fits and matches without me having to thing about it at all. I have literally gotten dressed in the dark and still gotten outfit compliments.

        • AIMS

          I think that’s part of my work problem – lots of black and lots of navy and these don’t all go together.

        • asdf

          So then don’t you just need a black, blue, and grey suit and tops that go with all those colors?

        • Killer Kitten Heels

          asdf, you could probably get by with just three suits and shells, but personally I like to have a little more variety/personality in my work wardrobe, so I have more pieces than that (although still not really all that many). Here’s my work capsule:

          Black Luxe collection suit from The Limited (jacket/skirt)
          Navy Luxe collection suit from The Limited (jacket/skirt)
          Gray suit from whatever The Limited calls it’s regular collection (jacket/skirt)
          Gray/navy/black color-blocked sheath dress from The Limited (matches all three suits listed above)
          Black Calvin Klein pants suit from Macy’s
          Purple Calvin Klein blazer from Macy’s
          Gray A-line belted Calvin Klein dress from Macy’s (the one Kat featured last week)
          Gray tweed blazer from Target (yes, really, Target, and I LOVE this jacket)
          Black dress pants and gray patterned dress pants from Macy’s Tahari line
          11 sleeveless shells from various stores (3 black, 2 cream, 2 “medium” navy (the kind of lighter navy that goes with black), 3 patterned, and one purple)
          Black A-line dress from Uniqlo
          Cobalt A-line dress from Macy’s Anne Klein line

          26 pieces total, though if I was starting from scratch I would’ve kept it to 18ish (the black and cobalt A-line dresses and about half the shells are “leftovers” from my old, overgrown wardrobe that I liked and didn’t want to get rid of, but don’t “need” and likely won’t bother replacing when they die).

    • KMO

      I was in a similar place a few years ago. For me part of it was fit, and part of it was clothes that were old (like 5-7 years old) and looked faded or outdated. I pared down my wardrobe to only things I liked, which wound up being mostly black with a few other neutrals thrown in. I bought some interesting scarves and dug up a few favorite pieces of jewelry and made a conscious effort to accessorize most days. It was a lot easier to make quick decisions about accessories when I was working with very neutral/boring clothes.

    • Anonymous

      You’re married right? Start by getting dressed nicely on weekends. Your husband can take the baby for a walk to get coffee while you shower and get back to feeling like yourself.

    • Anonymous

      Get a haircut, new glasses, throw on a scarf you love, etc. One change can make a big difference in how you feel.

    • H

      I’m sure you have a couple pieces you do actually like. Pay close attention to how those fit and what style they are and work on buying more similar pieces. I used to always pass over black shirts because I thought I had enough but then I realized that’s what I like wearing so why not buy them if I like them? I also realized I like having more of a uniform, both for work and for weekends, rather than a bunch of wildly different pieces. I’ve been doing this for the last few years and I now have a warddrobe I’m mostly satisfied with.

      • AIMS

        Thanks guys. Lots of good advice here. I’m going to figure out a couple of combinations for work and weekend that I like and go from there. I think a good pair of jeans and a new black dress for work (simple wool sheath, classic to the point of boring) would go a long way to fixing this for me. Recs welcome! Then I can mix in the stuff I already have. I may get a few things taken in too. And yes to new scarves – they always make me happy.

        • Anonymous

          In addition to the new jeans and new black dress, you might try a lightweight jacket that you can wear as a third piece on weekends indoors and out. Somehow having that third piece makes me feel more polished. I just got a fatigue jacket from Madewell that I love. A pair of ankle boots is another easy update if you don’t already have some.

          Cuffing your skinny or straight-leg jeans will make the style feel fresher.

          I also second the recommendation below to make sure your underwear and shoes are in good shape. Ratty underwear can make you feel frumpy, even if no one else sees it.

          • Killer Kitten Heels

            +1

            Vests also work well for this if you’re the sort of person who runs warm rather than cold – I find a jacket can sometimes make me feel like I’m overheating, but I don’t have the same problem when layering with vests.

    • Fishie

      I get like this, and my remedy is to play in my closet when it is full (all clothes washed, put away, back from the cleaners). Granted, I don’t have a kid so I have time to do this crap, but I’ll put different things together to try them out, dig things out of storage bins, dump stuff that’s really not working, and try out the game that Kat suggested fashionistas play – pick any 3 things in your closet and put them on together. I usually come out feeling like I have some new options and that there is a lot to work with.

      Another thing that might help is refreshing your underpinnings and accessories. Getting a pair of shoes that can fill a need, getting rid of old jewelry that looks tacky to you now, fresh tights/socks or undies, or picking up a cami in a color that makes something else more wearable can help. I might also clean up shoes, bags, and other things so they feel more like new.

      Good luck to you! I’m on a shopping moratorium and it’s so hard. I keep buying things like pajamas and socks but I want so much to buy clothes!!

    • Jeffiner

      I used the Stylebook app on my phone, so when I was nursing or rocking the baby to sleep at night, I could plan interesting outfits to wear. If I didn’t have a plan, I always ended up in skinny jeans (work) or yoga pants (weekend) with a shirt. I didn’t have time to take pictures of all of my clothes, so I would just get pics from the web (again, while holding baby) and use those for the app.

  18. Shortie

    I’ve been obsessively checking news sites the past several weeks for election updates. But today I just can’t. I’m too appalled.

    • Xarcady

      I hit that point sometime last week.

      Basically, at this point I know how I’m going to vote for President. I’m working on determining the more local elections–in my state, we are electing a new governor and US senator, as well as state representatives, plus my town/county have some elections for things like sheriff and register of deeds and the like.

      I cannot wait for this election to be over.

    • Anonymous

      My WTF moment for today was seeing my Facebook feed fill up with personal stories of NC black voters being asked for multiple IDs/utility bills despite the court rulings. I naively thought that the court rulings would prevent this kind of thing.

      This is one of the most comprehensive articles on the disenfranchisement attempts in NC if anyone isn’t familiar.

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-north-carolina-voter-id-law-20160902-story.html

      • Anonymous

        Anecdata: my NC polling place (in a pretty diverse district) was super prepared and had signs all over making sure you knew they couldn’t ask for photo ID and there were plenty of poll watchers outside with sample ballots and making sure there weren’t any problems. Not that NC doesn’t still have plenty of problems, but I was pleasantly surprised when I went to vote.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I broke my Facebook fast and have seen multiple people who don’t know each other post that they are convinced President Obama is going to suspend the election and illegally stay in office. I can’t believe this is what it has come to and I clearly need to step away from social media again.

      • Anonymous

        One of my friends’ moms, who is a Republican but was initially very against Trump, has become a Trump supporter and yesterday she shared an article that said Obama is going to refuse to leave office and she said “This is why we have to elect Trump to stop this wannabe-dictator.” Yes, *Obama* is the wannabe dictator. I can’t even.

        • AIMS

          I try to use stuff like this to make myself feel better. I think these people are so irrationally yet sincerely fearful of HRC, maybe I am irrationally fearful of the Donald, too. Sure, he’ll probably be awful, but the Republic will survive. This has obviously been easier in past elections but then again – because Trump doesn’t seem to actually hold any beliefs for that long – maybe he’ll revert to the sleazy but left leaning Donald if elected. Of course, hopefully HRC wins and I can just enjoy watching Fox News for about 20 min. on election night!

          • Anonymous

            I’ve tried to do this too and I’ve convinced myself that, as a white upper middle class woman whose family came to the US over a century ago and who can afford to travel for healthcare if necessary, a Trump presidency would not be catastrophic for me or my family. For all the talk of how terrifying it would be for him to get the nuclear codes, I think there are checks in place so he wouldn’t actually start a nuclear war. But I absolutely understand why Muslims, racial minorities, immigrants and those with loved ones in the military are scared out of their minds.

          • Sydney Bristow

            I am concerned about the nuclear issue. I hope there are enough checks in place to prevent him from doing something stupid, but I’m also nervous that he’ll surround himself with yes men and there might not be enough meaningful checks to prevent it.

            As a white woman with a comfortable family income, I also feel like I have much less to fear than others. One thing I am nervous about though is reproductive rights. My husband and I are very careful and use 2 methods of birth control but I am scared of the very small chance that I’d get pregnant and would not be able to have an abortion here. This fear isn’t Trump specific, but with an actual SC seat open right now I’m more nervous than during other elections.

          • Anonymous

            @ Anon 1:18 – As a non-American, we’re not just concerned about Trump starting a nuclear war, we are concerned about nuclear proliferation.

            Trump has repeatedly said that he doesn’t view the USA as having a role in military agreements with other countries such as Japan and NATO. He clearly said in the debates that he doesn’t have a problem with more countries obtaining nuclear capability to defend themselves so the USA doesn’t have to be engaged in that way.

            Simply put, the more places in the world that have nuclear weapons, the greater the possibility that those weapons will be used by state forces or misappropriated by non-state actors such as ISIS or Boko Haram. Nuclear non-proliferation has been a cornerstone of the foreign policies of all western democracies since the invention of nuclear weapons. Trump DNGAF.

            A dirty bomb small nuclear weapon set off in an urban area doesn’t care if you’re white or how long ago your family has been in the US.

      • Anon

        OMG. They must be related to the people in my feed who are posting that if HRC wins, they hope something terrible happens to her so that Trump will be able to take over.

        It scares me that people this ignorant of the electoral process are eligible to vote. The election =/= a beauty pageant. First runner up doesn’t get the crown in the event that the winner is unable to fulfill her duties.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, I wish everyone had to take the citizenship test that is given to immigrants before they are eligible to vote. I think a majority of Americans would fail it.

    • New Tampanian

      This happened to me the other week. I binge watched Gilmore Girls to get myself into a blissful state of cozy.

      • Anonymous

        My normal escape-from-reality show is Veep and I can’t watch it anymore because it hits too close to home. I think I need to switch to Gilmore Girls.

        • Anon

          +1 I am currently watching West Wing and have teared up on multiple occasions because WHY CAN’T WE JUST HAVE PRESIDENT BARTLET?

          • Anonymous

            I agree with this (Bartlett for America!) but have lately been binging on Star Trek Next Generation because the thought of Capt Picard\Patrick Stewart being in charge is soothing.

    • Senior Attorney

      I am literally having nightmares about this election. I feel like there’s a decent chance that a week from now we will be looking at The End of the World As We Know It.

  19. anon

    I’m in a rut. I’m having a really hard time even envisioning a job post-big law, but I know I want to get out in the next year. I keep seeing other people at my firm leave for amazing jobs, and I feel jealous but also helpless because I don’t know where to even start with a job search.

    Part of the problem is that I don’t think I have any passions. There isn’t really any kind of job I can think of (at least, nothing that would pay six figures, which I need at a minimum to pay my law school loans) that inspires me or excites me. I went to a top 5 law school, had a 2-year federal clerkship, and just “celebrated” my two-year anniversary at a Vault 50 firm. Theoretically shouldn’t this set me up for a great exit option? But I just feel trapped. I don’t have the financial freedom to leave to go to a public interest or government job that pays $60k. I’m not sure if I’m senior enough to go in-house (I’m technically a 4th year now) and I’m not sure how many litigation positions there are in-house. And I can’t move cities (large east-coast city).

    I know I should start doing informational interviews or something, but it just feels overwhelming. I almost feel like I’m just treading water, waiting to be pushed out of my firm so I’m forced to make a decision. But I really want to leave before it gets to that point, and I’ve heard that once you’re a 6th year you become less marketable.

    Thoughts? Do I need a “career counselor”?

    • Anonymous

      1) Yes, once you become a 6th year you are less marketable.
      2) Get your finances under control so that you can leave for a lower-paying job. You don’t have to have the freedom to live on $60k (you’re probably making over $200k now), but you should be able to live on $100k, even in NYC/DC/Boston.
      3) Start calling your former colleagues, whose jobs sounded “cool.” Just once a week, talk to someone for 10-15 minutes about their life post-biglaw. Ask what they enjoy and what they would change about their new job and what advice they would give themselves if they could go back in time before they left biglaw. Take notes, then review all of the notes after you’ve done this for 6 months.
      4) Kick @$$ at work so you don’t get pushed out before you’re ready.

      • anon

        thanks; I do need to get my finances under control. It’s crazy because my fiancé and I have a combined income of over $300k, but I still have a ton of debt. The way we have it mapped out now, we’ll be down to about $100k of debt by the end of next calendar year, and at that point I would feel comfortable leaving for a lower paying job (but not $60k).

        • Anonymous

          Keep in mind also that your lifestyle will look very different if you’re in a roughly 9-5 job. Right now I assume you are outsourcing cleaning, probably a lot of cooking and maybe pet care (if applicable), grocery shopping, laundry and other misc. errands. You can save a lot of money by doing all that yourself (although it can definitely be a tough adjustment if you’re happy with the outsourcing).

      • AIMS

        This is all good advice. I’d add that if you’re in a large east coast city, some gov’t jobs definitely pay above $100K. Maybe not much above, but enough to “live on” even with student loans. Also – how much are your loans? Can you refinance and/or make a plan to aggressively pay them off in the next 1-2 years so that they’re not an issue (or less of one) when you leave? This may have the added benefit of giving you motivation at work since you’ll be working toward a goal.

    • tazdevil

      Are you really that averse to going in-house? Depending on your specialty, at a Fortune 500, you should clear at least 110-120k.

      • anon

        I’m not averse to going in house… it’s more than I’m ignorant about how much those jobs pay, and whether it would be meaningfully better than my current job. And I don’t know how to even start looking for those jobs… are they all through networking, or is there somewhere they are posted online?

        • Anon for this

          I’m an in-house attorney at a major financial institution that was a senior associate litigator. I make more in house than I did at my firm, which paid slightly less than NY market rates. I got my job through an old friend and most of our positions are filled through referrals. HOWEVER, we also have hired several people that applied through our website without any referrals. So, don’t give up hope that you can go in house.

      • Triangle Pose

        I feel there is a lot of misinformation about this. Take a look at Robert Half Legal’s in-house salary review, they have a lot of salary ranges and break it down by region, city, type of in-house employer and by what year you go-inhouse. This salary review was really helpful for me when I was looking. I make 196k in-house, which is more than I made at my BigLaw 3rd year associate comp (this was before the recent raises in BigLaw).

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      You are at a Vault-50 – there is absolutely no reason your student loans could not be paid off in a year or two. Your bonus alone could probably get you a quarter of the way there (assuming relatively average student loan debt). Get your financial house in order and do what you need to do to get rid of those loans, and you will find your exit options dramatically improved (plus, by living on less now, you’ll be ready to live on less later when you make the jump).

    • Anonymous

      You have plenty of time. You are a 4th year. With only 2 years of actual work. Plan to stay two more years and then look. Also you’re ignoring a great out- moving to a smaller firm. At 2 years of law firm experience obvi you don’t know where you’re going yet and that is totally fine.

    • Gov't lifer

      An easy thing to do is to set up an alert on Indeed dot com so that you can get daily emails about all new jobs posted in you area (set up a broad search like “attorney” and “city where you live”). Then every day you’ll get 10-15 job listings, and you can comb through them and see if any look appealing.

      Are you in DC? There are TONS of gov’t jobs that pay $100 + (I moved to gov’t as a 6th year and make $160 K). And even if you’re not in DC, there are fed gov’t jobs that pay well.

      If you enjoy litigation, I’m not sure you would enjoy being in-house. My understanding of in-house litigators is that they manage outside litigators but don’t actually do the brief writing/legal research themselves.

      I was in Biglaw for 5 years and am so happy that I made the move to gov’t. Best of luck.

    • Anon

      I’m not suggesting you should go into gov’t — but realize that govt salaries aren’t what they used to be esp in sectors where they are trying to attract folks with private practice experience. I started in the govt last yr at upwards of 140k; my salary has gone up over 20k in 1 yr’s time. When I was interviewing I was looking at a NY State govt atty job — starting pay was in the 130-ish range. So if it’s about money, don’t entirely discount the gov’t thinking you’ll start at 50k and make six figures 20 yrs from now.

      Non profits OTOH – they are definitely lots of 60k atty positions out there; though I don’t know enough about that world to know if there are others with high starting salaries or if all non profits start at 60-70k and you work up from there.

      • Anon

        And to be clear there are agencies like mine where you don’t max out at 160k. Your salary continues to increase until about the 200k level and that is NOT contingent on being the 1 person who gets a huge promotion or anything.

      • anon

        that’s good to know, thanks. one of my colleagues just started a job in NY state government. I wonder if NY state govt is particularly well-paying, or if my state has similar jobs.

        • Anon

          I know in NY State govt and in federal, any govt job tied to the financial services sector pays a LOT more than say one tied to civil rights or whatever. The financial services agencies do more to “match” private sector salaries – not a true match obv but still reasonable bc they know no one is leaving a Vault firm for 60k.

    • Triangle Pose

      If it helps, I went in-house at 2.5 years in BigLaw to a Fortune50 company. I applied blind on LinkedIn. Don’t lose hope!

    • In-House in Texas

      Join the Corporate Counsel section of your local bar association. You’ll meet a ton of in-house attorneys in your area. Offer to do a CLE to establish yourself as an expert. I’m in-in house in Texas and make over $200K with bonus and love it. I don’t really even work that hard.

      • Anononope

        Two things:

        Look into joining ACC (the Association of Corporate Counsel) or at least haunting their job boards and website. I think poking around there will give you some insight into what in-house can look like.

        I work in-house at a not for profit in a MCOL place and make over $100k. It’s not like, direct services (like you might be imagining, like legal aid or something) — it’s helping with all of the aspects of legal representation for a client that happens to be run for a charitable purpose.

    • anon

      I am in a similar position and found that getting my financial house in order was a huge factor because I started to see more jobs that I would take (I want to leave corporate law) since money wasn’t so much of an issue. I cut down my expenses to 3k per month, the rest goes to loans (!) and I will be done paying those off in 2 years, less if I make my hours and get bonuses. It’s totally doable!

  20. Legal Writing Recommendations?

    Does anyone have any recommendations for books or online classes to improve legal writing? I’m not a lawyer but work for one. Thank you!

  21. Closet Redux

    For those of you who have interviewed visibly pregnant women, how would you want the candidate to address it?

    I have an interview at 34 weeks pregnant (i.e. super pregnant). I do not expect my interviewers to ask me about it so as to avoid any suggestion of impropriety, so I know I should broach it swiftly and directly. I was thinking of waiting until the end of the interview when they ask if I have any questions for them, then saying something about how I am expecting a baby in a few weeks time and plan to take 3 months at home and so would be able to start around X date, and does that work for their timeline.

    Is there something else apart from start date that you would want to know? Would it help/hurt to mention I have another child already? On the one hand, it is evidence that I know what to expect with a new baby and solidly plan to return to work. On the other hand it, I don’t want them thinking that I have my hands full and this is no time to start a new job. Other tips for interviewing while massively pregnant?

    • anon

      I think your plan sounds fine! I wouldn’t mention the other kid at home, it’s irrelevant. And keep the tone breezy and matter-of-fact when you describe the timeline, etc.

    • Anon

      If you’re going to mention it – get in and get out. So no more than – I am expecting a baby in x weeks and would take Y months off and thus any potential start date would be after Z, I wanted to ask if that would work for your timing. And then watch for reaction and body language – if they want someone sooner, you’ll know by reaction even though they may not say it.

      DO NOT bring up the kid at home. You have no idea who you’re interviewing with and I know people who do think – one kid, ok whatever. Two kids — she’ll be the one who is calling out all the time bc the preschooler gave the baby another cold or whatever.

    • Wow

      I interviewed for a job when I was 37 weeks pregnant (and I got the job, and I’m here now). My situation is a little different but here’s what I did.

      My first round was over the phone, so it did not come up. Prior to my in-person second round, I called the hiring manager and told him that I was very excited about the opportunity, and wanted to give him the heads up that I was in third trimester and would be available to start in X month.

      The big advantage of doing this is when I walked into the room, everyone knew my situation and so the focus was on my skills/experience. If I hadn’t disclosed prior, I feel like I would be doing this awkward dance the entire time about when I was going to talk about my pregnancy, and similarly, the interviewers would all be wondering if/how I was going to bring it up. In short, I felt that my pregnancy would be too much of a distraction and I decided I would rather control the narrative by proactively letting them know beforehand of my situation.

      If you weren’t so far along, I think it would make sense to just mention it at the interview itself. But since you’re so close to delivery, you may want to consider calling beforehand and letting them know. I’m curious though to hear what others think.

    • anonshmanon

      Agreed, do not bring up your other kid. Instead, tell the interviewer (in one sentence) that you have a childcare plan in place.

      • anon

        Please don’t tell them you have a childcare plan in place. Obviously you do or will. The other above advice is good, suggesting comments along the lines of “I’m due to have a baby on X date, so if I get the opportunity to work with you all, I’d like to start three months after that, in X month, and I wanted to see how that works with your timeline.”

    • btdt

      I would bring it up. I have interviewed pretty pregnant before and I would generally pat my stomach at some point and say something like “well as you can see, I have a new arrival coming and would be ready to start on date x”. I wouldn’t mention your other child.

    • TK

      Just be upfront. They won’t (shouldn’t) ask you about it at the interview, but assuming there is an, “any questions for us” section at the end, smile and say “I know you can’t ask but you might have questions about my possible start date – I will be available as of ___.”

  22. Anon-in-House

    Can we do a survey on in-house counsel salaries stating in your response:

    1. City or region OR HCOL / LCOL / MCOL area
    2. Size of company (# of employees)
    3. Years of experience
    4. Salary

    • Triangle Pose

      1. Philadelphia
      2. 150,000 or so employees (Fortune 50 company)
      3. 3 years (Left BigLaw 2.5 years)
      4. 196k

      I said this above but I really recommend taking a look at Robert Half Legal’s salary survey for in-house. Many of my friends who are still in BigLaw think it’s a HUGE salary cut but that is not always true.

    • Anon

      This comes up every few month, Kat would be great for you to organize this in a survey monkey !

    • Anon

      (1) Large Southern City
      (2) Fortune 1000
      (3) 9 years
      (4) 145K salary, another ~ 90K annually in bonus/stock combined

    • Betty

      1. New England
      2. 30,000 Employees world wide. My subsidiary has 450 employees.
      3. 10 years
      4. 97K (plus 20% bonus and 3% 401k match)

    • Anon for this

      1. Large TX company
      2. 6K employees
      3. 7, in-house for the past two.
      4. 180K and 50% bonus.

    • Anonymous

      1. Large southern city
      2. ~600
      3. 1 – got an offer in an industry I couldn’t refuse after being in big law for 8 months
      4. $95k (15% bonus, 5% match)

    • Anon Bay Area

      1. Bay Area
      2. 3K employees
      3. 12 years (roughly half in BigLaw and half in-house)
      4. $240K base, annual stock grant between $40-50K vesting over 3 years

    • Anononope

      1. M- to HCOL, west coast
      2. ~250 employees
      3. 8 years out, 1.5 years here
      4. $150k

    • anon bay area 2.0

      1. Bay Area
      2. 10-15K employees
      3. 2 years (2014 grad)
      4. $160K base, $25K RSU vesting over 3 years

    • Anon

      In-house ish – employment law counsel for state gov’t as employer.
      1. MCOL
      2. 50,000 state employees
      3. 2008 grad
      4. Approx. 100K, no bonuses, great benefits, 40 hour weeks.

    • G

      1) HCOL
      2) 1k
      3) ~5 years
      4) ~225k base, 3-5% 401k match, cash bonus >$50k, equity possible

  23. Flatiron

    Can someone recommend a good straightening iron that is available on Amazon Prime? Would like to keep it around $50.

    • Emmer

      If you can, I strongly recommend bumping your budget to about $75 and getting one of the classic Chi flat irons.

    • Anon

      It is above your price range but I can’t say enough good things about my Izunami hair straightener.

  24. NYNY

    2 shopping-related questions that are perplexing me:

    1) When does the Sephora VIB sale happen? I think it’s in November, and I’m trying to figure out if I need to re-up on moisturizer before or if I can wait for the sale.

    2) What happened to the “Work” section on Nordstrom’s webs1te? I used it as a shortcut, and it seems to be gone.

    TIA!

    • Legally Brunette

      Ha, I noticed the same about the Work section. It’s annoying, no idea why it is removed. You can still find it by typing “Work Mode” in the search function.

      • Susie

        I don’t know why you’d bother though – in my experience many of the items under “Work” were not really work appropriate.

    • TO Lawyer

      As far as I know, the VIB Rouge sale is this weekend (starts Thursday or Friday) and the VIB sale is usually the weekend after.

    • anon bay area 2.0

      VIB Rouge is Friday. I have everything saved and ready to go!!! Woohoo!!

  25. Candidate

    So I’m looking for positive vibes this morning. I am running for a position in a local election. I am considered the front runner but my opponent (a male) has been sending out negative mailers about me, saying I am not qualified. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I find it horribly frustrating because some people are believing his bs. I just imagine trying to be like Hillary, brushing it off, but it gets to me. Only one more week before it’s over!

    • Fishie

      That guy’s job is to shoot holes in your campaign and he’s grasping. Fingers crossed for you! We need more women in politics in this country. Go you!

      • Anonymous

        +3. I’m thrilled that this year both candidates for my state legislature district are female (they both beat men in their respective primaries). Hooray for women in politics!

    • Anonymous

      I’m running the campaign for a (male) first-time candidate. He’s running as a D in a very red state, but the district is pretty blue. We’ve had made-up IRS documents mailed out, we’ve had false police reports sent out on my client and we have done everything but formally file a lawsuit against our opponent.

      We’ve sent out 9 mail pieces so far, and two more to come. Voters are sick of the lies, and mud slinging. Fingers crossed you get through it unblemished. Even if my candidate wins, he’s going to have an uphill battle undoing what the opponent has done.

    • bridget

      I have some tough love:

      A mailer saying you are not qualified is basically the most benign thing that an opponent will say about you in the week before the election.

      I have never run for office but have been involved politically, and I’ve been chased around, had the police called on me, been subjected to reams of abuse by internet trolls on repeated occasions, been told that I’m stupid and uneducated and don’t understand science (n.b., that comes exclusively from Democrats), had reporters pull one quote completely out of context….

      That pales in comparison to the harassment and abuse that many candidates endure.

      A mailer saying you aren’t qualified? Um, when you played sports growing up, did you cry when someone pitched to strike you out or blocked your shots?

    • candidate

      Thanks everyone (except Bridget who apparently didn’t read my message about wanting positive vibes). I know I can do this!

  26. Sloan Sabbith

    Celebration time: After two-plus months of hell, I picked up a medication I desperately need (which I needed just as badly two and a half months ago when it was ordered, jump off a cliff, American healthcare…) from a local pharmacy. Unlike the mail order pharmacy I had been forced to work with by my prior insurance (as my insurance switched during this), this pharmacy was incredibly kind, pleasant, compassionate, and all around amazing to work with. The medication cost me $35, and it’s more than $8,000 a month. When the pharmacist handed it to me, I was so relieved I started to cry. I spent more than 50 hours on the phone, writing letters, and otherwise trying to get it over the last two months. With this pharmacy that we were finally allowed to use, it took two short phone calls and it was to them in three days. I’m crying in relief again just thinking about it.

    It infuriates me, however, that I, as someone with a law degree and a flexible enough job that I could spend ENTIRE afternoons on the phone trying to get it straightened out, couldn’t get the pharmacy I had originally been required to use to give me this medication. I can’t imagine how difficult this is for….anyone with less privilege than me, honestly. It saddens and frustrates me to no end. I couldn’t figure it out. How is someone who works multiple jobs, has limited English proficiency, is a single mom, or just really, really sick supposed to figure this out?

    To celebrate that I got the med, though, I bought myself a doughnut and a very large caramel latte.

    • Anne Shirley

      So glad you got what you needed!

      and +1000 to the frustration with the process!

    • Jeffiner

      That is horrible! I’m so glad you finally got the medication.

      The mail order pharmacy my insurance wants me to use cancelled my BC prescription, and didn’t tell me. When I called to ask where my pills were, I found out that even though my doctor wrote the prescription for 12 months of pills, the pharmacy would call her to confirm each month that it was still valid. My doctor moved, I never thought to tell the pharmacy to start calling my new doctor, and the pharmacy never called me about it.

      Luckily BC is easy to get. I paid an extra $25 to get it at the local CVS rather than deal with the mail order pharmacy. I do feel similar to you though – what is someone who can’t afford the extra $25 supposed to do?

    • Anonymous

      Yup.

      I am an MD, and I have the same difficulties managing my father’s needs.

      Everyone must have an advocate.

      Always ask for a supervisor when the customer service rep seems even a tiny bit unsure, unhelpful, or uncivil. Document every phone call, with name of rep/extension. Always ask which date decision/correction should be available by. If you find a supervisor that actually helps and makes things happen, save their contact info for futur use. Always appeal. Always follow up with another phone call after date passes where decisions were to be made.

      It is impossible for many seniors not to manage this. And when we are hit younger with medical needs, the time wasted fighting for you care is infuriating.

      It breaks my heart when I see folks in the hospital alone.

    • Sydney Bristow

      The whole process is crazy making. I’m so glad you got what you need.

      I finally got my prescription issue fixed…just in time to switch insurance companies. Fingers crossed the transfer goes ok or I might be posting the same thing early next year.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I’ve been in your shoes and said the same thing many times. I’m glad you finally got a resolution. I don’t have a solution but keep fighting the good fight. I like to think each time I fight over something, it goes into their cost benefit analysis of whether to make people fight the next time around.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I want to add that stories like these are important, IMHO, for illustrating why affordable healthcare for all is so important. So many (healthy) people think that everyone needs more personal responsibility and they shouldn’t have to shoulder other people’s burdens. Even the wealthiest would struggle to pay for a $8,000/month medication. Those against healthcare for all also think that “sick” people that need medication brought it on themselves or are lazy. It helps the argument, I think, to see someone that “looks” healthy but relies on medication to continue being a productive member of society. Give me my medication and I will work and be an overachieving chic. Take away my medication and I will be on disability. Putting a face to the issue goes a long way. It is certainly not your burden to do that but every little bit helps.

      • Sloan Sabbith

        Yup. I have a chronic illness. If I didn’t have these extremely expensive medications, I’d be dead or on SSI. Since I do, I’m an attorney for a nonprofit working with clients whose legal needs are affecting their health. I am an advocate for my clients, I am absolutely not lazy, and I work my a** off to make sure I stay this way. But to do that, I need affordable healthcare. Trump winning scares the living hell out of me, because if Obamacare goes away, I could hit the lifetime cap in a year and I’ll die without insurance.

        It broke my heart one time- I was on the phone with my dad, and I was having struggles getting another medication that I take every day and have taken every day for 20+ years. It’s 10K a month, and my dad said “We’ll figure out a way to get it…” I said “We need insurance to get it, Dad. It’s 10 thousand dollars a month.” I could hear my dad’s heart breaking as he said “We can’t afford that….I’m so sorry, Sloan. I don’t know how to help. We don’t have that money.” I knew we didn’t, but my dad was crying because he so badly wanted to be able to help and there’s just no way to afford these medications. My dad never cries, and it broke my heart.

  27. anonymous

    It’s my first time in a supervisory role, and my team and their personalities are really irritating me. I’m an adult and a professional so it’s not a big deal, but I’m just wondering if this is common. I’m also really introverted, so having to be interacting and “on” all the time is a bit draining as well.

    • anon

      Yes, totally normal. I’ve made myself engage in better self-care. Unless it’s something really important, I pretty much never go out on Friday nights. I’m just too drained by the end of the week. I also take breaks throughout the day when I can. Getting out of the office to read a book for 20-30 minutes really helps.

    • Samoyed

      I am similar to you – introvert – and also found managing people to be draining depending on their personality (also a bit of an empath here – I tend to absorb everyone else’s emotions). However, I also found managing a team SUPER rewarding. The way I made this work for me was to structure check-ins – both with the team and individually, and not let myself get sidelined by surprise interactions. When annoying person would pop into my office x/day I would say ‘oh! yes, let’s have a chat about this, I’m available at x time’ and then would psych myself up and build in a short break after that meeting.

  28. anonymous

    Is there really a nice way to say “let me know when you’re finished smacking on your gum in a very loud fashion and we can have our meeting then?

  29. anon

    Anyone have any tips for preparing an oral argument outline that helps you to be more flexible as the judge asks you questions? I had an oral argument recently and I think I handled it well (partner said I did), but I definitely got thrown off because the judge started asking me questions about, say, item 5 of 10, before I even got to the podium. A lot of the issues overlap, too, so I ended up repeating myself bit when I went back to items 1-4 to make sure I’d covered everything.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      I like to organize things by topic, and each topic is its own standalone mini-speech. That way, if the judge jumps to #5, I give the #5 mini-speech and then I can go on to the rest of the mini-speeches and there’s less risk of repetition.

      Some repetition is inevitable when the issues overlap, but having each point organized as a standalone can help.

    • Anonymous

      I think a lot of this just comes with practice. I do appellate litigation, where it’s expected that you will be interrupted. My recommendation is to do a moot with the person who was the main editor on your brief and someone who was not involved and is coming to the issue with fresh eyes. You don’t have to role play (unless that would be helpful for you), but even just having 2 people raise questions or thoughts about likely weaknesses, strong talking points, etc. is helpful. I prepare a main very short “speech” that hits the key talking points, and then I prepare a document with key questions and/or issues with responses that I write out. Then I practice the speech and responses out loud until I feel comfortable. Something about the repetition really helps. Learning how to pivot back to your talking points just takes time and practice.

      A recent example. Opposing counsel was asking the court to apply the wrong standard in their case and focusing on a certain fact that was irrelevant. I stood up and before I got a chance to say more than my name, a judge asked me about that fact. My response went something along the lines of, “Your Honor, before I address your question, I want to point out that counsel is asking this Court to apply the wrong standard. The correct standard is X. The lower court correctly applied X. Counsel’s argument regarding this fact is irrelevant to the issue of whether the thing that occurred was permissible.”

    • nutella

      You ‘memorize’ an outline that flows the way you want it to in case the judge isn’t familiar with your case and needs a summary before asking you questions. If a judge starts asking questions, don’t worry about sticking to the script, make sure you answer the questions and if time allows, you cover all the other points. I would also consider that maybe you don’t really have 10 points to make, as that can make your argument lose focus. Maybe you have 3 big points to make or maybe the judge thinks this is about a different point altogether.

      • anon

        This particular hearing involved many different motions, some dispositive some not but all interrelated, hence the number of points. It’s definitely harder to keep things organized when there’s a lot of material involved!

    • Anonymous

      I also prepare separate arguments for each of my main points. These are tabbed in my argument notebook so I can flip back and forth. I also put a one page summary sheet (on a different color paper for some reason this helps me focus) at the beginning of the notebook. As I am about to finish up, I flip back to the first page and do a quick scan to make sure that I didn’t forget any one of my main points as I was jumping back and forth to answer the judge’s questions.

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