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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 463 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Cap Sleeve Crepe Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. There are tons of nice navy dresses right now in this price range at Nordstrom, and the great thing about this one is that it has these curvy seams down the front (easier to see here). I also like the cap sleeves and the fact that it comes in navy as well as “light strawberry.” Personally, I would wear it with a statement necklace to visually lower the neckline, but that's me. The petite sizes are sold out except for 10P, but the regular sizes in stock are 2-16. It's $138 at Nordstrom. Cap Sleeve Crepe Sheath Dress Here's a plus-size option in navy. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!  Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

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Comments

  1. cat socks

    I took my youngest cat to the vet yesterday for vaccines. She was fine in the evening and ate dinner, but this morning she was lethargic and didn’t eat breakfast. I know these are totally normal side effects, but I still can’t help but being worried about her. The other two older kitties seemed to bounce back more quickly.

    Also, just curious about how much people pay for regular vet visits. I switched to a new vet in town and it was $80 for a wellness exam, FVRCP and rabies vaccinations. My other cat had to get blood work and it was $100 for them to do it in house and $85 for next day results. She didn’t charge anything separate for an office visit for the blood work.

    • Fishie

      I hope your kitty feels better soon! That sounds about right to me for a vet visit. Even if the visit itself is only $30 or $40, they add charges for each thing – it’s like an a la carte menu. So $40 for a visit, plus $20 for this vaccine and $20 for that test…it all adds up.

      • cat socks

        Thanks! I keep checking on her via our security cam and it looks like she’s still on the same spot on the bed. I might have to syringe feed her this evening if she’s still not eating.

        Yep, most vets I’ve been to have the a la carte option for various procedures. I was just glad she didn’t charge me for an office visit on top of the blood work.

        • Anon

          Cost is a bargain compared to my vet…one of cats is always lethargic and doesn’t eat for a day or two after vaccines. He always reverted to his normal self on his own after a couple of days- if he’s just quiet and not eating much and otherwise Ok (not vomiting or otherwise looking bad) I’d say this is fine – and I’m a big worrier too :)

          • cat socks

            Thanks! I think I’m just comparing her to my other two who didn’t have many side effects. Luckily no vomiting or anything. She just seems kind of blah. As I have felt too after vaccinations.

    • Anon

      That sounds reasonable.

      think of what the cost would be for doing that for a human, then it seems a very cheap deal!

    • Carrots

      That sounds about right for when I took my younger cat to an actual vet. For a while, we were just taking them to the local humane society clinic for wellness checks because nothing was wrong and that was cheaper, but it wasn’t a full exam with blood work, etc.

    • Tech Comm Geek

      1. That’s a very normal reaction to vaccines. My vet advised that it was actually good for my cat to fast for up to 72 hours after vaccines, so long as she was still drinking and peeing. Force feeding her now might make her feel worse.

      2. That’s pretty standard for vet visits at vet clinics here in Minneapolis. The “clinics” attached to PetSmart and Petco are cheaper, but they are high volume clinics.

      • cat socks

        Good to know about the fasting. Thanks! I will make sure she is hydrated and might give her some water via syringe if she’s not drinking on her own.

        • Pale Girl Snorkeling

          As long as she’s hydrated all is ok. It’s easy to check kitties for dehydration, it involves pinching their skin to see if it stays up (dehydrated) or snaps back (all is good) If she is still lethargic tomorrow, call your vet and let them know. My vet always likes to know if someone isn’t bouncing back as quickly as usual

  2. Anon today

    Reposting from late yesterday

    Regular reader here, not usually a poster, but am hoping for some advice from the group. I am past 55 yrs, and have just been notified that my job is being eliminated due to a “restructure” I am in financial services, been with the same firm for 20+ years, enjoyed my position with the company until recently, and have had a good career. However, I am feeling very challenged around the age thing as i consider the job search. I have always considered myself a young 55, part of the reason I read Corporette is to keep up with trends…
    So my ask is what do you see as key elements in projecting myself as an experienced and relevant in today’s world?
    Any big do’s and don’ts? Should i still wear a suit to job interviews?

    • Scarlett

      If your company is offering outplacement services, take them up on it and talk to a career counselor to go over your resume/ interview tips, etc. Many people overlook that part of their package and it’s useful. Network. By now you probably have a solid one. Make lunch, coffee, dinner dates. At 55 it will be hard but your industry isn’t overly youth focused, luckily. Big mistakes I see are anything outdated on a resume (EarthLink and AOL email addresses, for example) and not using or knowing about social media. Suits will depend on the company, ask the recruiter for advice – Fintech, polished separates, a bank, a suit, but you never know. Also will depend on your geography. And this may be controversial but I’d consider making yourself look younger as best you can – cover greys, wear on trend shoes/bags, get a little Botox if you’re comfortable with that, etc. age discrimination is real and the more you look your age the harder it will be to start over.

    • anon

      Just wanted to say this must be scary and good for you for being proactive and ready for it. I’m impressed and I hope those that speak to you will be too! Let us know how it goes!

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Check out the Ask a Manager blog to get up to speed on trends in hiring, résumés, cover letters, and networking. Her methods might not be universal across all industries, but I like her job search advice.

      • Tech Comm Geek

        I second the recommendation to do a deep dive in the Ask A Manager site. Since I began reading her blog and following her methods, I’ve gone 3 years without a gap in contracts. In my field, most contracts are project based and last 6-9 months, so I’ve been doing the job search thing a lot. Her interviewing guide is particularly helpful.

        And definitely take advantage of any outplacement you are offered. I will say that when there is conflict between advice given and Ask A Manager, I default to Ask A Manager.

    • Anon

      I’d take the dates off of your education on both LinkedIn and on your resume. You can also leave off early career experience if it’s more entry-level or not applicable to what you do now.

      Agreed with others to make sure your hair color and style are up to date.

      I’d also buy a new interview outfit if you can. I’ve seen some colleagues in suits or separates that are clearly dated, but it’s often hard to pick out what about the outfit looks dated. Doing one of those free Nordstrom stylist appointments might be a helpful route to take.

      • Anonymous

        Glad someone else chimed in with this advice as this was what I was going to say. I used to run a program targeted at women over 50 looking for work, and I can say it is more difficult, but far from impossible. Now is the time to work your network – get in touch with friends, former coworkers and supervisors, professional community-of-practice members, and even people from your faith community or your child’s school (if you have kids), etc. and let folks know you are looking. Set up lunches and coffee dates with the explicit reason of, I am in need of a job and need your advice/help. Make sure your resume is as good as it can get and consider hiring a resume consultant or taking advantage of any services your employer might offer. This job search may take some time, but with a solid work history and a good professional presentation, you’ll find the barriers aren’t as high as you thought. Good luck to you and keep us posted on how things go.

      • Maizine

        From another mid-50s person: I wanted to be sure that you’re aware that the internet is totally where jobs are advertised these days. (Bonus kudos if this is old news to you.) There are sites which list jobs for free (indeed, monster), sites which require you to sign up to see the listings (tread carefully–it’s easy to spend a lot of money on amped-up monthly or annual subscriptions), and the sites of many organizations.
        Useful sources of information: career counselors, career counselors based at social service/human service organizations, your public library and the reference librarians who work there, and various blogs.
        Ask A Manager is terrific and you can search the archives. The open threads (Fridays for work, weekends for not-work) often have helpful references to various other blogs.
        Personal note: I just got hired at a large professional association without botox or hair coloring but you do you depending on your personal style, past experience and desired future positions. I’m in an admin role without client contact and not in an industry that expects its professional women to conform to a specific template regarding personal appearance. Again, you do you. I’ve never wanted to spend much time or energy on my hair but a good color job looks great on other people.
        Hang in there and good luck. It’s hard but not impossible. I think that character, poise, experience, and the desire to contribute will shine through regardless of a person’s age or hair color!

  3. Fran

    I’m thinking about extending a work trip to Dallas in may to get to explore a bit. I need recommendations for places to stay (locations and particular hotels would be great) and things to do (it would be a Friday and sat night. Would like to keep the hotel under 200 (but don’t have to) but i want it to feel a bit luxurious- husband will fly out to join me. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, if you don’t have something in mind to see, this isn’t the trip I’d extend. I spent 3 days in Dallas for work and did a little siteseeing in off hours – I haven’t ever been to a city that felt less like a city. We stayed at the Fairmont which was lovely.

      • Anonymous

        I agree – I would only stay if you’re into the rodeo, which can be fun. You may find the other cultural attractions kind of lackluster unless you don’t have things like public parks at home.

    • JayJay

      I don’t know what Anonymous did, but there’s interesting stuff in Dallas. I’d recommend staying somewhere like Hotel Zaza, the W, The Mansion, the Ritz, or the Crescent. Go spend an afternoon in Klyde Warren Park, the DMA is awesome and free, the Nasher Sculpture Center is amazing (across the street from the DMA), the Sixth Floor Museum (the place where JFK was shot) is a really interesting couple of hours, and the George W Bush Library is not far, either.

      As for places to eat, you can’t go wrong with any of the restaurants in the Design District, Fearing’s, Flora Street Cafe, Stampede 66 if you want something Texas-y, Filament, FT33 for more modern food, or Tei-An for amazing handmade soba noodles and Japanese food.

      • Anonymous

        Drive over to Fort Worth and enjoy the art museums in the museum district there. I know, ‘art museum” isn’t what comes to mind when one thinks of Fort Worth, but they actually are there.

      • Dallasite

        +1 to JayJay’s suggestions. As a few more options, I would also add Javier’s for Mexican/cigars one night, maybe with a stop at Atwater Alley afterward, wandering around Bishop Arts on Saturday (lots of restaurants but also boutiques) or the Arboretum.

        Dallas is a little more spread out than some cities but still a lot to do IMHO.

      • Suburban

        I had a blast in Dallas a few years ago.went to ft worth for dinner at lonesome dove (really like)followed by the rodeo. Honestly, the rodeo was a blast. I can’t recall all the restaurants/bars in Dallas but I remember the night started at a rooftop bar, devolved to some sort of airstream trailer surrounded by picnic tables and ended at the ritz Carlton. Also strolled around the bishop arts district the next day and that was fun. All this to say- extend your stay!

        • Dallasite

          Late responding here, but I’m guessing you went to HG Sply Co and Truck Yard- both fun

      • Fishie

        I found the Sixth Floor Book Depository Museum to be incredibly moving and fascinating. Fort Worth isn’t far away (and I think has a high speed rail to Dallas). I’d check out the Stockyards – rodeo on Friday night, some fun honky tonk type bars and BBQ.

    • Another Dallasite

      Agree with all of these suggestions, and add the following:
      – The Rustic, Happiest Hour, and Katy Trail Ice House all have great outdoor space. The Rustic has live music on the weekends; Happiest Hour is two stories with amazing views of the city. All three of these places are pretty casual.
      – More places to eat: Sprezza; Nonna; Uchi and it’s sister restaurant, Top Knot; Urban Taco.
      – And: Atwater is currently my favorite place in town!

  4. Anonymous

    I’ve noticed that some people with numerous titles will separate them in LinkedIn headers with small vertical lines. They don’t look like lowercase “L’s” but I’m not sure what they are? Curious because I want to use them in mine.

  5. Anonymous

    My 9 year old son didn’t make either of the baseball teams he wanted. I am so sad for him. I’m researching summer training and all of the options are an hour a few days a week during the day. My intention was to sign him up for a bunch of outdoor and STEM type camps but those won’t help his athleticism, and right now, that’s what he’s motivated to do. He’s in a gifted program at school so I’m not worried about getting behind if he focuses on sports this summer… I’m just in a quandry. If we do the sports camps I think we’d need to get a nanny, so I just don’t see a good way to mix them together.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not sure about baseball, but I know with soccer there are teams that don’t require tryouts (like AYSO). Would he consider doing something like that to build skills?

    • Anonymous

      Could you do a half day of day camp and then a half day nanny who brings him to various sports activities? On days he doesn’t have sports planned she could just take him to the pool or batting cages. Try posting a notice at a local college. You may find a student who is doing a couple classes in the summer and only looking for part- time work.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, he did make the In House team. We didn’t do any extra training and his friends did. Most of them made the other teams.

    • Anon in NOVA

      I’m sorry, juggling summer childcare/camp options is the worst. I have no advice to give you, just commiseration. I hate that I can’t put my son in all the cool-looking camps that focus on what he wants to do (in our area, these are around $450/week FOR A HALF DAY! can’t afford that on top of additional childcare).

    • Anonymous

      Have you looked for half-day or full-day sports camps through your local colleges and universities or YMCA? One of our local private schools also offers a camp that splits the day into several classes that include sports, arts, and STEM sessions. Another option might be a sports-oriented after-school program that offers summer care. My daughter attends one of these run by our local soccer club. You could also try sports other than baseball just to build general athleticism. Your parks and rec department and local sports clubs may have a variety of classes including evening or weekend sessions.

      I hear you on the transportation issues. My daughter’s sports team has daytime practices during the summer and the cost of a nanny is prohibitive, so I burn tons of PTO and make myself crazy getting her where she needs to be during the summer.

    • Anonymous

      My son has gone to summer camp at the JCC near us for years (although he’s switching this year, just because he wants to do something different). His camp was always heavily focused on athletics, both competitive and noncompetitive, with a focus on a different sport every week and lots and lots of swimming. I know a lot of YMCA camps are also sports-focused, although they are impossible to get into where we live.

      I agree that figuring out summer care for kids is the worst. It’s also unbelievably expensive. We spend $3,000 a year (in our MCOL area) on summer camp to make sure my son is covered from the time school lets out to the time school starts again, and we still usually have to rely on my parents to cover several days during the summer. I don’t understand why we can’t create school schedules that are more sensible for 90% of families, who either have a single working parent or two working partners in the household.

    • Meg Murry

      My now 10 year old really doesn’t need a nanny/baby-sitter anymore so much as a “person to keep him from being bored out of his mind, burning the house down when he tries to make grilled cheese, haul him places “.

      Could you ask some of the other parents what they are doing for the summer? Perhaps you could share a college (or even high school) aged sitter that would keep the kids alive in the mornings and then get them to sports camp in the afternoons?

      I was so happy when I was done writing daycare checks for my oldest until I found out what a pain it is to cobble together a summer plan one week at a time, and/or wind up paying just as much for those 3 months as I did for a year of daycare.

      And honestly, doing other training at 9 years old to make the elite team may not do him any favors in the long run. There are lots of stories now of high school kids having the kinds of injuries you used to only see in pro athletes (like Tommy John surgery on high school pitchers) now that kids are focusing on one sport year round instead of just casually playing during the season. But I know that’s not exactly easy to explain to a disappointed 9 year old that just wants to hang out with his friends :-/

      • emeralds

        I know he has to be disappointed, but developmentally he’ll be better off in the long run without excessive specialization early on! My SO works in sports medicine and they see really crazy stuff earlier and earlier; my understanding from him is that at that age, it’s really more important to focus on all-around athleticism (body control, hand/eye coordination, endurance, stuff like that) to set the foundation for specialization later. I know that doesn’t help with the logistics and summer camp stuff, but maybe you can help him reframe not getting on the teams he wanted as an opportunity to work on setting the foundation for later years?

        • Tech Comm Geek

          I second this! I also have a good friend in sports medicine and she’s treating 10 year olds for repetitive injuries she used to see in 40 year olds. There is very little research on how growing kids rehab from these injuries.

          It’s hard to see him sad that he isn’t making the team, I understand.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Yes! Sports should be a fun way to be healthy at his age, not a source of this much stress.

      • Liz

        +1 this! I’m a high school basketball coach and I started with 5th graders. There is no such thing as an “elite” prepubescent team because no one knows what’ll happen to their athleticism when they’re older. They’re just all in different developmental stages. Have fun, play different sports or do different outdoor/athletic activities, play with other kids in the neighborhood and the park, and don’t bother with the trainer.

    • Anon

      I’ll make a pitch for YMCA camps. I worked at one for two summers during college and it was a blast (for both the counselors and the kids). The one I worked at was focused on outdoor activities so it definitely kept the kids active, and they were all day to accommodate working parents. In my city, there are sports camps too so maybe that’s an option? A bunch of the kids would go to different ones each week.

    • Anon

      I did hire a high school-aged sitter for my daughter the summer she was 9. She didn’t want to spend the summer in structured camp programs at that age. With the sitter, she was able to just hang out, see friends, and go to the pool and tennis lessons. It was relaxing for me too – no rushing to get her to and from camp each day.

      • SC

        When I was 9, I definitely had high-school-age sitters during the summer. I went to camps too, including sleep-away camp. I loved sleep-away camp, but after that, I preferred having babysitters. My friends and I would bike around the neighborhood until we got really hot, then jump in someone’s pool, and do it all over again (this was in south Florida). Compared to that freedom, rushing to and from camps with structured enrichment activities all day seemed kinda lame.

        • Anon

          I’ve also got a high-school aged sitter for my kids (11 and 6) this summer. She’s more of a chauffeur than anything; just someone to keep the place from burning down and taking them to do stuff and keep them from watching TV all day. I really try not to over-schedule them in the summer, but I also live in the country, so if they want to see other kids at all driving is necessary.

  6. AIMS

    I really like this dress but wondering if it will be too long on 5’4 me in a regular size. Anyone have/try this one?

    • jumpingjack

      I got this dress. It is pretty long – I’m nearly 5’5″, and it falls a couple inches below my knees.

      I’m still undecided on whether I’ll keep it. It fits well, but a little too well – it’s not tight, but it’s very body conscious. I have a very hourglass frame. I’d only be able to wear it with a blazer in my fairly conservative office in DC.

  7. Kite Festival DC

    We are going to the Kite festival in DC on Saturday. We will have two toddlers in tow. Is there any places to grab food nearby for a picnic? Or places to stop by for brunch/lunch with kids? Or anything else to visit in the vicinity with the kiddos?

    • Anon in NOVA

      If it’s where I think it is, isn’t it near the national mall? There’s usually at least hot dog vendors etc. in that area. Worst case scenario, the museums are free to walk in to and they have (overpriced) food courts. I think it may rain this Saturday, so the museum cafeterias may at least provide respite from the weather if needed.

      I used to bring food/snacks and picnic with my son on the national mall, but I know they’re doing a lot of work right now to preserve the grass, so I’m not sure if that’s possible anymore.
      I’m sure a lot of people can give way better info than I just did!

      • Anonymous

        OP here – the events says it will be by the Washington Monument. Is that the same as the National Mall?

        • Echo

          At the other end of the Mall (which the Washington Monument is on) near the Capitol is the American Indian museum. Best lunch around in their cafeteria, and very kid-friendly too.

          • Wehaf

            Agreed – eat at the National Museum of the American Indian. Their cafeteria serves native foods, from cuisines all over both North and South America. The food is delicious, and not outrageously priced.

        • Katie

          Yes, same thing. Best to pack your own food if you can – the concession options are limited and expensive. While there may be some food trucks around, the food is not terribly toddler-friendly and will have lines.

      • DCR

        If you want to eat out, I would recommend the food court in the basement of the the Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center. It is on 14th, between Constitution and Pennsylvania, which is near the Washington Monument. Compared to the museums, there are a lot more options in the food court. It’s open on the weekends and, because few people know about it, the lines are not bad.

        One warning, you have to go through security to enter the building. The security check isn’t bad, but you have to take off your coats and put your bags through an x-ray.

      • Bonnie

        Tons of places to eat a few blocks away, especially north of the monument. If you want to sit down, Elephant and Castle on Pennsylvania between 12th and 13th is kid friendly. There is also a large food court at the Reagan building nearby. http://itcdc.com/dining/
        If you just want snacks, there’s a CVS at 13th and Pennsylvania.

    • Anonymous

      Can’t help with your inquiry because I am long gone from D.C., but wanted to say that my father used to take me to the DC kite festival and those are some of my fondest and clearest childhood memories. Enjoy!

  8. Leatty

    I’m looking to switch up my skincare regime. I already use Cetaphil face wash, Clinique astringent, and Clinique dramatically different gel. Now that I’m 30, I’d like to add eye cream, but I’m not sure what would be best for aging and under eye circles/puffiness. What is your favorite kind? Any other products you have found to be essential in your skincare regime?

    • sombra

      sunscreen every day, face and neck, ideally spf50+ with uva/uvb (but that’s rarely available from US brands due to the FDA shenanigans). Many asian sunscreens are also cosmetically elegant, I really like biore watery essence, but buy anessa (made by shiseido) if I’m feeling wealthy. Sadly no recs for an eye cream, never seem to see any difference with them

      • LAnon

        +1 to Biore watery essence. I never knew I could be so passionately devoted to a sunscreen.

        • anne-on

          FYI – the 2017 reformulation is NOT getting good reviews. I stocked up on the 2015 version.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            Crap, I just bought two more tubes. Here’s hoping I get the old formula…

      • KateMiddletown

        Where do you buy this to ensure it’s legit? Amazon doesn’t sell it that I can see (it’s available from other sellers, but I am wary of fakes.)

      • cbackson

        La Roche-Posay Anthelios for face has UVA/UVB and is SPF 60. It’s a very light texture and slightly matte so it acts a bit like a primer as well. I also use their body product, which has a more normal sunscreen texture and has to be rubbed in more. You can get it at Target. It’s pricey but worth it in my view, and very well-reviewed by dermatologists.

    • AIMS

      The Clinique all about eyes cream is pretty good, ime. If you are already using their products, you can try it.

    • Echo

      I really like Caudalie’s line, and have been eyeing (heh) their eye cream. Their detoxifying mask is really wonderful as well. For a quick fix, Sephora’s $5-6 eye masks are great too!

      • trefoil

        I love the serum! I got a sample from Sephora and have been using it as eye cream to make it last longer.

    • anne-on

      In addition to sunscreen every day (I also use the 2015 biore watery essence) I’d add in a good Vitamin C serum (timeless CE Ferulic is a pretty decent dupe for the patented skinceuticals), and a retinoid product if you can tolerate it. I don’t see much of a difference with eye creams, but perhaps a serum targeted to your specific concerns would help?
      If you’re looking for good results without paying much to start – why not try the holy snails samples? Their shark sauce (just a name, no shark products!) is amazing.

    • Anon

      I really like Clinique’s All About Eyes Cream. I deal with a lot of puffiness around the eyes and circles, and I noticed a real difference since I added the eye cream to my routine: http://ow.ly/yqmR30amSyQ

    • Shopaholic

      I love the Shiseido sunscreen but after all of these recommendations, I may try the Biore one. Thanks for the recommendations!

    • Anon

      As a side note, the Clinique Clarifying lotions (if that’s what you mean by astringent) all contain high amounts of alcohol and are probably very drying for your skin.

      I agree with the recommendation for any of their eye creams however, they are very good.

    • Anonymous

      I dont wear eye cream but when I start I’ll try Dr. Hasuchka’s regenerating. My friend in her 40s (who smokes) has amazing eyes – she swears by this.

    • EM84

      My view is that in order to keep skin looking youthful for as long as possible one should consider:
      1) Prevent as much sun damage as possible – Use SPF on a daily basis – either in your moisturizer or liquid foundation. I use MAC makeup with SPF and that is enough for me (very fair and sensitive skin & live in 4 seasons mild climate.I add extra layer of sunscreen gel – Daylong SPF 50 – in summer). Always wear sunglasses.
      2) Limit alcohol and smoking.
      3) Prevent your skin from drying – from the inside (drink enough water) and from the outside (use a moisturizer suitable for your skintype; dry skin will benefit from humectant as well as a product which will help to lock in the moisture). I use different moisturizers (targeting my problematic skin or sensitivity) during the day, but I like to use natural lavender/borago/argan oil at night. It does not clog pores, helps calm sensitivity and my skin is soft, smooth and dewy in the morning. I am not an Eco-Bio lady, but I find it really works for me. Other nights, I use my treatment creams to help keep acne at bay.
      4) I like to use eye cream (as I see that my first wrinkles will appear in this area), my current favourite is Shiseido Benefiance 24hr eye cream and I used Clinique’s All About Eyes in the past (both suitable for extremely sensitive skin).
      5) I also like to use serums/concentrates/essences for face. I do not necessarily think they work, but I like to pamper myself. Currently, I am testing Shiseido Benefiance and Ibuki essences.
      6) As someone working in pharma business, I confirm that there is just one topical ingredient proven to work against wrinkles – and that is retinol. You can get it on prescription. I do not use it currently, as my current routine is fine.
      7) I like using chemical peelings to help keep my skin smooth, even out skintone and help with blemishes. I use 12% Glycolic Acid cream at night once per week. I find it less irritating and more effective than mechanical peeling.

  9. Rugs?

    anyone have a rug (or a store) they love for a combo family/TV room/playroom? This is where the kids play and where we watch TV as a family, but it’s on the main floor. We’re repainting and re-doing the whole decor so anything is fair game, only thing staying is the couch- a small brown sectional.

    One day, our basement will be finished and all the Kid Junk will live there. But until then, I take respite in my living room and have ceeded the other room to the junk.

    • Beans

      I love Dash & Albert rugs. Great prices for the quality and they look fantastic.

      • Beth

        +1. If you get their indoor/outdoor rugs, they are actually super soft and can be hosed down.

    • Anon

      What age kids? We used Flor tiles (carpet tiles) to create a “rug” in our family room. The kids are young and we have a large dog, so a lot of things get spilled or dirty and using the tiles allows us to replace only the section that is gross. We just bought a few extras in case they discontinue the pattern.

      • CHS

        We did Flor tiles too! I love that we can switch them out as needed or when we get bored (can buy tiles in new pattern and swap those in with the old to create a whole new design), or break them up into smaller bits and move them around the house if we feel like it. We have a toddler and a large dog, and I wanted something that would clean up easy. It’s also low pile so looks really tidy easily, if that makes sense.

      • Anon

        They’re young so this would be ideal. I got overwhelmed on their site and actually decided to post here-ha!

        What design(s) did you like? I’m totally uninspired.

        • Anon

          We needed an 8×10 and wanted fairly neutral, so went with a “sale” option that was really similar to Turkish Smoke. From the sale section right now, the Lacebark and Reverb ones look nice – as you see in the pics, you could alternate patterns to give it more interest if you’d like.

          We actually called their designers and asked for some recommendations based on our style, color, intended use, and budget. They sent us some really awesome ideas, with a full color mockup, even though our budget was pretty limited. I was incredibly happy with the service.

    • Anon

      I went to a local rug store and bought some wool traditional Persian type rugs. You can find them in any color scheme you like. I was looking specifically for wool that day but the one color combo I particularly liked for the living room was synthetic. Ten years later that rug still looks new and the wool rugs are just starting to show their wear.

      Anyway, Persian rugs with the traditional designs are very good at hiding any little spots due to the busy-ness of the pattern, and all the stores have lots of color combos.

    • Never too many shoes...

      If you have a Costco membership, they have tons of options. We have several rigs from there and have been happy enough with the price and quality.

  10. bedrest

    A mom I know, but not super well, is on bedrest [totally unexpected pregnancy AND ITS TWINS!!] for the next 2 months until the babies come. Her daughter and my daughter go to school together and have had a few play dates (and would have more but our schedules are opposite). Given this level of relationship, what could I do to be useful while she’s on bedrest? Also, how should I ask/offer?

    With a VERY good friend, I’d text and come over and just start *doing*- cooking, bringing meals, cleaning, removing children for a bit etc. But this is someone I’m friendly with, FB friends with, but that’s kind of it (but like her).

    I’ll cross post on the moms site but I know there are a lot of ladies here who have been on bedrest. She’s still working, but remotely now and on a much more relaxed schedule.

    • Anonymous

      Offer to pick up her daughter for a playdate or outing with your daughter, and leave a casserole when you bring her home.

      • anon

        +1 That’s a great idea. And suggest a date and time when you offer. Like “I could pick her up Saturday at 10 AM to go to the playground, or let me know if another time works better”. Offers for help that come with specific details attached are much more likely to be accepted.

    • Lilliet

      I was recently on bed rest. Offering to do even one pickup/drop off to school if it’s at all possible, for me, would have been so helpful. If she’s on full bed rest (100% horizontal) then she needs any help you can provide. If she’s on modified bed rest (has to stay home but is allowed to be up and about a bit) I would bet she would just need more help with errands/etc. For example, my OB authorized and encouraged me to get up and cook our meals but without Peapod that would have been impossible. One thing I did not anticipate is the need for adult human interaction. So, if you’re comfortable with it, you could offer to go over and just spend an hour chatting while the kids play every so often and use that as an excuse to help her carry laundry or drop off food. You’re a good friend!

      • Lilliet

        And to address the ask/offer: Don’t just say “let me know when I can take Kiddo for a playdate” offer a specific time and details, “On Tuesday at 5pm I can pick your Kiddo and my Kiddo up and take them to Panera for a quick meal if that works. Or would you prefer me to bring some Panera over while the Kiddos play?” Maybe it’s just me, but when people offered help (even the offer was appreciated) it was hard for me to ask for a particular time/day/activity. But when the offer of help included all those decisions made, it was much easier to say yes even for people I did not know as well.

    • H

      I second the adult interaction. I’m very extroverted and would go crazy if I were home by myself all day. If I were in that position, I would love someone coming and hanging out with me. Bonus points since your daughters are friends and they can play together.

    • anne-on

      I’d ask if you can have a play date with her at the house, and be clear that *you* will supervise the kiddos. It’ll give her a chance for adult interaction, and I’d totally drop off food for dinner during said play date. It will also give you a chance to offer up more concrete help – can you do a pick up/drop off during the week? drop off some groceries? Offer to supervise some play dates at your house? Continue play dates at her home and offer to throw in some laundry/tidy up a bit?
      It really depends on her personality – I would be MORTIFIED if a a causal friend came by to clean my house/do laundry but would gratefully accept offers of food/pickups/running errands.

      • Anon

        Seriously, I need to know. Is it Beyonce? does your daughter hang out with Blue?

      • bedrest

        yeah Beyonce and I are casual playdate moms. Sometimes she drops my kid off with hers at daycare ;)

    • Never too many shoes...

      My incompetent cervix got me three months of complete bedrest. It was seriously the most trying time of my life and I cannot imagine how I would have managed if I had another child. Ugh.

      For me, company was the thing that I craved most. The idea of bed and all the food and movies you want sounds so wicked awesome…for like three days or so. Then the loneliness of eight hours per day or more became very depressing. So I would say a phonecall in the evening saying that you will bring lunch the next day would be very welcome – come with some takeout and just chat for a few hours. It will make her feel like she has not disappeared from the world.

      • this is terrifying

        I’m not pregnant, not a medical professional, just a lady who might decide to get pregnant in the future…

        but 3 months in bed sounds completely insane. Not even joint replacement rest takes that long! What was the atrophy of your muscles like? how did you recover after giving birth? ::shudder:: I can’t fathom.

        kudos to you for getting through it!

        • Never too many shoes...

          Do not panic. I was allowed to sit up for a bit. The next step is hospital when you cannot get up at all. I was allowed to go downstairs once per day and shower every other day…but is *sucked*. I did not notice trophy in particular but I was pretty tired once I gave birth (although that is pretty normal). The boredom and the fact that I felt amazing and full of energy that I could not use was the worst part. Stupid cervix.

  11. judicial conference attire

    My (non-lawyer) job occasionally requires me to speak at judicial conferences. State court, limited and general jurisdiction, different states. Usually the male judges are wearing suits and the female judges are wearing a variety of outfits including interesting suits, dresses, blazers, etc. I am ordinarily a sheath dress person. For judicial conferences I ordinarily wear my one suit, a plan black skirt suit. This is starting to feel a little juvenile to me and I’d like to branch out a little. What other types of outfits would be appropriate–matching sheath dress and blazer? Interesting suit? Is a sheath dress with sleeves or a non-matching blazer fine?

      • Ellen

        I agree that a sheath dress is appropriate. You do NOT want to look to formal, though sometimes it is helpful if you are a lawyer trying to make an impression in front of a judge in court. It is different in a conference environment, where you do NOT have to approach the bench, call witnesses, or address a jury of your peer’s. If you are blond like me, recommend a dark blue sheath dress with dark blue pumps, sheer nylon hose and a blazer, which can be lighter blue. I sometimes wear read b/c the manageing partner at my firm loves me in red, but I think that is to noticeabel for a conference unless you are also trying to get busness, which you do not want to be doieng with judges. Good luck and let us know how it turns out! YAY!!

    • Lilliet

      You can emulate the dress of the female judges safely, as long as it’s not *the* eccentric female judge.

      • OP

        There is always *the* eccentric female judge, isn’t there? I am definitely not going to do purple hair with a leather jacket, as I saw in one place.

        • Lilliet

          Yes! And I guess I should clarify, you can totally be THE eccentric one. But then you have to carry that torch forever, it would be even weirder to be eccentric at one conference but not all. Be consistent :-)

          • OP

            I think only the judges can get away with being THE eccentric one, though, not little old me who is just a speaker and not a judge.

    • Trish

      I started speaking at conferences recently and found I feel more comfortable in a dress rather than a pants and skirt suit.

  12. Basic Flats

    Recommendations for basic flats to wear to work and for going out? I would like to buy 3-4 different colors/patterns, so something not too expensive would be best. Done with wearing heels in my new casual office. I work booties during the winter, but it’s getting warm out now!

    • cat socks

      I have a couple of pairs from Dr. Scholls that are pretty comfortable and reasonably priced. I got mine from DSW, but I think you can also find them on Zappos. I’m currently wearing a pair of black ballet flats from Aerosoles. Me Too also has some good options.

    • H

      Lucky brand Emmie flats. They come in a few different colors and some fun patterns. I have a patterned pair and they are pretty comfortable. I’m definitely planning in getting more.

    • Anonymous

      I know some people don’t like them, but I’ve had good luck with the J.Crew Factory flats. I spent a weekend at the mall a few months ago and most shoes were about 1/4 size too big or too small. The Factory flats fit nicely and I haven’t had any blisters or soreness.

      I also had a pair of Cole Haan outlet flats that served me well, although they were a little more expensive. Eventually, something that looks like the flat head of a nail appeared under the fabric of the footbed and started rubbing my foot raw. I plan to take them in to see if this can be repaired cheaply.

    • Anonymous

      If you have time, go to DSW and check out the various flats they have. I did this last weekend (I almost exclusively wear flats and I replace them every season because they get scuffed and stinky) and found a lot of good options. I was surprised at some of the brands I liked (Kelly & Katie, which appears to be less expensive version of Cole Haan, was really cute).

    • Sloan Sabbith

      Target Ona flats. Cheap, but I wear them for multiple years and they’re incredibly comfortable.

    • anon n n

      I like Target’s Merona Drew pointed toe flat. They run slightly narrow(/my feet run slightly wide), but I find them otherwise comfortable. I find Target’s Sam & Libby Chelsea bow flat more comfortable than the Ona.

  13. Echo

    I’m eyeing solid Sloan ankle pants from Banana Republic. The care says they’re dry clean only. Has anyone washed BR clothes and not destroyed them? Looks like they’re 56% viscose rayon, 39% cotton, 5% spandex.

    • Leatty

      I have several pairs of these and do not dry clean them. I wash them in warm water and hang them up to dry. They definitely got a little shorter and tighter, and don’t look as crisp, but it’s no so bad that I would spend a fortune dry cleaning them.

      • Anondc

        Ditto – I have a pair in black and navy and have done this for the past 2-3 years. They are in mint condition.

      • IP Associate

        +1 . I wash my 3 year old black Sloan pants in cold water and hang dry. Never had any issues with them and they still look great.

    • anonymous

      I machine wash my BR wool suits pretty regularly, but they’re mostly wool. I read that the reason that viscose is most often marked dry clean is that you can’t wring it to get water out because it’ll get misshapen. So what you have to do is hand wash it and then roll it in a towel to dry, then hang. I don’t know if you can machine wash- I’ve never tried it with that fabric.

        • August

          I have 3 pairs of these. 2 black, one wine colored. I wash them in cold water and hang dry. I have no issues.

      • Anon

        You machine wash SUITS!? Uh?? Just spring for the dry cleaning. I know you think they still look good, but there is no way they are retaining their shape if you’re sending them thru the machine.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          I’ve hand washed and air dried my old wool suit skirt that had a weird stain that didn’t come out after dry cleaning (so if it didn’t come out, there was no great loss). The stain came out and the skirt ironed beautifully. I’m super picky about items looking crisp and this worked great. I wouldn’t try it with anything you’re attached to, though (and linings can do really weird things in the wash).

        • Anonymama

          Some people are really good at doing laundry. It’s a skill. Dry cleaners are not magic.

    • Bonnie

      I always machine wash and air dry. I do stretch them out and line up the seams for drying and that really helps.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve cold washed them on gentle and have also used Dryel. They have held up just fine. I did have an older pair of sloan pants that I did wash like regular pants, since I hadn’t realized you were supposed to treat them gently, and they did shrink a little lengthwise. I can’t remember if I ever dried those (on low). The ankle pant has been fine, though.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I don’t have those pants, but anything rayon I’ve owned has been a bear to launder, even though I follow care instructions. I refuse to buy anything rayon anymore.

    • Anonymous

      I wear these pants all the time. Don’t put them in the dryer ever. Over a year they probably shrink two sizes with washing and line drying. I size up and don’t expect them to last more than a year.

    • ALX emily

      Check out the Eater guide to the city. As for what to wear – comfy walking shoes! And sunscreen. I normally dress like a southeastern preppy with lots of bright colors, so I normally tone that down/stick to black and gray when I go to other cities, but I didn’t do anything special beyond that.

  15. Trust issue follow up

    A few weeks ago, I posted needing advice about rebuilding trust in my relationship of 1.5 years that was quickly deteriorating. I received some harsh words of advice but one stuck with me about being monogamous vs monogamish.

    I ended the relationship and I have never felt more empowered. I feel free of the burden of fixing the relationship and free from the anxiety of “what’s he going to do next”.

    I thank you all for your advice and I hope anyone else struggling out there with something similar realizes how amazing it feels to take back the power!

  16. Kids

    Did having kids improve your life? Are you more satisfied with your life now, with kids in it, than you were before kids?

    I’m in my mid-30s and single. I used to REALLY want children. But now that it’s about that time and my friends are starting to have kids… I think it’s just not for me. I’m already tired and stressed and don’t have enough time or energy to do it all, I can’t imagine adding kids to the mix. I need sleep and downtime to feel like myself. I look around at my friends who have kids of various ages and they all seem pretty miserable. Not just through the baby phase; once the kids get older, every weekend is taken up by early morning swimming or soccer or whatever. The financial drain of childcare is enormous, and that’s without hiring a nanny. I just don’t get how anyone has enough resources of time, energy, and money to accommodate kids. Not to mention the consequences to your career. Yet people do it, so I feel like maybe I’m missing something? Or am I just pragmatic about what a racket this raising-the-next-generation thing is?

    • Anonymous

      No, it’s a total racket. Raising my daughter is the most difficult, stressful, expensive, time-consuming, and draining thing I’ve ever done. It’s also the most important thing I’ve ever done and has changed me in ways I didn’t expect, both positive and negative. I love her more than I ever thought I could love another human being. If I had known how hard it would be I’d still do it all over again for her, but I don’t have it in me to have another.

      Parenthood is not for everyone, and that’s OK. I desperately wanted my daughter for years before she came along, but I never felt that same desire to have another so we are done. If you don’t feel the yearning, you don’t have to have kids just to avoid missing out.

      • Anonymous at 10:11

        To answer your original question: It changed my life, improving it in some ways and detracting from it in others. I think it was a net improvement overall, but the positives are all very abstract and my day-to-day happiness and contentment are definitely diminished.

      • Anon for this

        How do you all make decisions that are based on what Future You might want? I’m very happy in my life now (31, casually dating a man for about a year whom I like but neither of us sees the other as husband/wife material), but don’t want to find that at 40 I wish I’d settled down because at 40 I wish I had kids. It’s hard to know what choices are doing what I want because it’s a reasonable choice and what choices are being short-sighted/ prioritizing today over my future.

      • Anonymous

        Can cosign. I love my son to the end of the universe. I like being a mom and I am glad I had him. But I have several friends who did not have kids and their lives are fine and happy, and they don’t feel that they missed out on much. The amount of time and mental energy it takes to raise a child is not something anyone can prepare you for or adequately explain. And now we are moving into the preteen and teen years and there’s so much to worry about, try to prevent, try to encourage, etc. I knew I was meant to be a mom and I really wanted a child, but like the poster above, after I had my son I was done. I had this absolute yearning before he was born but once we had him, I never felt it again. I don’t feel like my life is missing anything.

        Parenting is like joining the Peace Corps – if you do it, you won’t regret it, most likely. It is the toughest job you’ll ever love. However, it is a tough job that changes you in a lot of ways, not always for the better. But many people never join the Peace Corps and their lives are fine.

    • Anonymous

      Early morning swimming is a choice. Spending every weekend doing nothing but soccer is a choice.

      • Anonymous

        It’s a choice, but when you see your kid light up when she is pursuing her passion sometimes it’s pretty hard to say no.

        • Anon

          Yeah bc a 6 yr old’s “passion” will take her straight to the Olympic team. It’s a passion until some other butterfly flies past and distracts her.

          • Anonymous

            Tell that to my 10-year-old who knows she is not going to the Olympics but spends 12 hours a week in the gym anyway!

          • SC

            Eh, one of my good friends growing up was on a swim team from the time she was 6 years old. She had practice twice a day, which seemed like a lot to me at the time. She never made it to the Olympics (or thought she was going to), but it really helped her when she was bullied in 5th or 6th grade, and it helped her confidence a lot in high school, and she swam at a very good college on scholarship. There can be great benefits to letting even young children pursue passions (as long as it’s really theirs, not their parents’), even if they never make it to the Olympics.

          • anon

            I swam competitively from young childhood and retired at 19 to go premed–I knew the whole time that I wasn’t going to be “a STAHHH”, but the things I learned from swimming were invaluable–that hard work frequently pays off, how to deal with failure, and how to recognize when something (a given technique, or even a coach) was not working and deal with that. In a way, swimming parented me in a way my own parents weren’t going to (which is a separate issue) and I consider the lessons learned to be invaluable, more so than pursuing an Olympic medal would ever be.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, but kids can find other passions pretty easily. My 8 year old nephew is on a competitive travel sports team that has international matches — his parents have really bought into this one extremely time consuming, expensive thing because he was curious about trying it out as a small child. Honestly if they had switched him to soccer or something more practical I think he’d have been just as happy.

      • Walnut

        YES. THIS. My kiddo is still young, but we say no all the time. Valentines at daycare? Nope. Scheduled playdates unless I feel up to having company? No thanks. Structured activities for an 18 month old? Good grief, he’s more than happy to unravel a roll of wax paper on my kitchen floor, thanks.

        • Yes!

          Right there with you! Valentine’s at daycare (which means mom picks out special outfit, runs an errand for cards and possibly a treat) is bullish*t. They’re in daycare because they have working parents. Can’t they just do a craft and play some games and call it a day?

        • Anon

          SO MUCH THIS. It’s a choice. Say no. Repeatedly. I’m definitely happier with kids. Yes, sometimes it’s stressful, but overall I enjoy it immensely. I think part of the reason is luck – I have family and parents nearby, so have a great support system. But I also live where there isn’t constant pressure for kids to do everything at every age. We didn’t do much at all when DD was younger, at and 11 we’ve limited it to one or two activities. Right now it’s 4-H and piano lessons. That’s it. We’ll add golf lessons and swim lessons in the summer. Swim because we have a pond and I want them as drowned-proof as possible; no competitive swimming. Golf because I’m taking lessons and she’s interested, so easy to bring her along.

        • Anon

          I Just Said No to the PTA. I don’t give a rat’s a55, I am happy to write a check. If those bidznatches want to talk about me behind my back, have at it. No one says anything about dads who don’t show up to that ish – any time my husband shows up for anything he gets treated like a hero.

    • Anon

      First of all, I couldn’t imagine doing it single. Do you have a supportive partner? That is/was the #1 factor for me.

      Secondly. I honestly think those moms who look miserable are kind of doing it to themselves. They are perfectionists and feel like their child has to be in a million activities. And maybe their husbands don’t pull their weight at home or the moms don’t let them.

      I don’t know that I can say I was more or less satisfied than before I had a child. It is just so different. It’s a big adjustment, but one my husband I were willing to make. I definitely miss having the freedom to do what I want, when I want, but I have accepted that it is not that time in my life right now.

      I will say that my toddler absolutely brings me more joy than I ever thought possible (cliche I know) so for me it was the right choice. This is totally a personal decision and I’m just one perspective.

    • anon

      My life is equally as good as it was before, but in different ways. One way to explain it would be to say that I had a happy life as a child (part of a loving family, playing with friends, all needs provided for). And a happy life as an adult in my 20s (working hard in college and grad school doing research I care about, traveling and establishing an independent adult life). Both were happy times, and I’m glad I got to experience both phases. Even though my childhood was great, I didn’t miss it because my young adult life was interesting and fulfilling in different ways. For me, it was a similar transition with kids. My life is different now, and there are some paths that are (at least for the time being) closed because of the additional responsibilities and costs of child-rearing. But the kids have brought enough new sources of fulfillment, personal growth, and joy into my life to make up for what I’ve lost. It’s different, but good in its own way, and I wouldn’t change a thing. That being said, unlike the transition from childhood to young adulthood, I DO NOT think that having children is in any way necessary for “growing up” or living a complete and happy life. There are many ways to transition from “young” to “full” adulthood (or however you want to say that), and that might include taking on leadership roles in business or community, diving deep into your art or some particular skill, or so many other paths that will be the right choice for many people.

      • TK

        Agree with all of this. My life before my kid was awesome. My life after my kid is also awesome, but for completely different reasons. Do I miss sleeping in on the weekends? Yes. Is there anything better than hearing a three-year-old mini-me say, “I love you Mommy?” No.

        My life has actually gotten better, post-kiddo. Having a kid forced me to be more well rounded, and I am so grateful that it did. By necessity, I left an 85-hour a week job that I loved in isolation but that was brutal on my personal life, and now I have a 40-hour a week job that I like and am awesome at – I’ve been promoted 3 times in 2 years. Added bonus? I can do things like date my husband, make cookies with my kid, and do pro bono work on asylum cases.

        I totally embrace my identity as a kick-a** working mom and that status in itself feels like a type of feminist advocacy.

        • anon

          I needed to hear this today, as a pregnant lady who is about to bid her toxic career adieu for better professional horizons (galvanized by impending parenthood.). It was great to hear that an outcome as good as yours is a possibility–thank you!!

    • CPA Lady

      I have a 2 year old. I am only going to have one. For me, that’s the best of both worlds. I get to have a kid and be a mom, but I don’t have to sign my entire life over.

      In comparing it to my pre-kid life, I’d say this is a much bigger roller coaster. The lows are so much lower and the highs are so much higher. There is this tremendous level of vulnerability and a burden of responsibility that is unending and ever-present in a way that I could not comprehend pre-kid. But my love for her and pride in her is stronger than anything I’ve ever felt. I do not particularly *enjoy* parenting a toddler, but I’m really looking forward to parenting a kid. And I’m glad she’s part of our family.

      Yeah, your life changes (financially, time constraints, career wise) when you have a kid but your priorities often times change too in ways that are surprising and difficult to predict ahead of time. And you can still be happy. I would have not predicted my career path post-kid, but I’ve realized there are things in this world more important that working 70 hours a week, and I’m surprisingly happy with that.

    • January

      I’m in a similar position to you – single, 30s, always wanted children, although my doubt is less whether I would be happier for having had them and more whether I will ever be in a position to have them. You don’t sound that happy overall – is that right? I don’t think kids would be a magic fix for feeling unhappy or adrift. But if you’re perfectly happy and don’t think you would want to add kids to the mix, then of course you don’t have to have them.

    • Anon in NYC

      Yes and no. I love my daughter beyond measure, but I would have more money, more sleep, and more energy without a kid. I want more money, more sleep, and more energy, but I wouldn’t trade my daughter for those things. Honestly, I derive more joy from being a parent than misery/frustration (although there is misery and frustration during temper tantrums and sleepness nights).

      But this is just my opinion. You don’t have to have kids to have a happy life, and if you think being a parent will make you miserable, don’t do it! Be the fun auntie who has adventures with her friend’s kids and then give them back to their parents at the end of the day.

    • Mrs. Jones

      I have a 6-year-old, and even if I weren’t too old, I wouldn’t have a second. It’s a lot of work without much reward. You might read All Joy and No Fun for a good perspective.
      My advice is: don’t have a kid unless you really want one.

        • nasty woman

          Maybe don’t shame her? Do you think it *contributes* or *detracts* from women’s well being (including their experience of motherhood) when they are shamed for expressing any negative feelings about parenting?

          • Anonymous for this

            +2 See my comment re parenting teenagers and reward below. I actually appreciate the original comment here.

          • Anonymous

            This isn’t any negative feelings. This is no positive feelings. That’s not okay for her child.

          • Anonymous

            Hey Judgy McJudgerson, put a sock in it, wouldja? I’m sure that poster has many positive feelings about her kid and just didn’t explicate them in her post. Not sure if you’re the same Anon who’s been trying to stir the pot here for the last few days, but, for real: find something else to do with your time.

          • nasty woman

            No, this isn’t “no positive feelings.” She said “without much reward,” if we’re getting technical. My point stands-you made a snarky, snide comment designed to express your disdain for this woman. Don’t split hairs or try to read this woman’s mind. What are you going to do, call CPS? Share with them your divine wisdom that her child is suffering? Gonna adopt it yourself? Or are you just gonna beat her up about it and hope that will change her mind?

            I’m a little sick of the Anonymous Police coming out to brow-beat the cr*p out of women here. Yesterday we were treated to the Corpor*tt* Branch of CPS browbeating a woman for saying she didn’t have much interest in kids but, acknowledging that she didn’t know how to relate to kids, wanting to develop a better relationship with her step-daughter.

        • Mrs. Jones

          Would-be parents should know it’s not all sweetness and light. That’s all I’m saying. I wish someone had warned me about that beforehand.
          Yesterday my son told me to shut up more than once and kept eating with his elbows on the table. That’s not very rewarding IMO. On the plus side, he made an observation about daddy that made me LOL, which was rewarding.

          • Straight to the moon

            Hoooo boy, when my son does that (and let’s be real, it’ll happen some day), he won’t be sitting at my table eating my food such that he gets the opportunity to keep his elbows up for long….

    • Anonymous

      No advice, but I’m in the same boat (except married). Honestly, our lives seem SO busy and stressful already. Between work (and I don’t work super crazy hours either, usually <50 hours), household chores, seeing friends occasionally and a little of downtime (~1 hour or so of reading before bed each night, which I need to fall asleep) my time is all accounted for. I barely watch TV, I'm not involved in time-consuming hobbies or organizations, I don't spend a ton of time with family or friends besides my husband, so I don't know where time with kids would come out of. There are so many things I want to do – travel, learn how to code, learn how to speak a foreign language, etc., that I don't really even have time for now and I know will be completely put on hold for 20+ years if I have kids. If I knew for sure that I'd be healthy and active in my 50s, I'd be more willing to postpone all the "me" stuff I want to do until then, but since that's not guaranteed I'm reluctant to give up all my 30s and 40s to taking care of someone else.

      • anon

        +1 to all of this. I feel the same way. When my husband and I got married in our late 20s, we had set about 4 years after getting married to have kids. Well, we’re at that 4 year mark and I feel crippled with anxiety about it. I like my job, my downtime, my sleep, my financial stability, etc.

        Also, being pregnant seems terrible/awful times a million. I’ve had a few friends go through it recently and no one is happy – spouse or mom to be. Every is sick all the time, utterly exhausted, complaining that people touch their stomach without consent (seriously? like why would you ever touch someone else’s stomach? that’s just gross) or having weird hormones cause them to simultaneously yell and cry at their husbands…

        anyway, rant over.

        • Legally Brunette

          Just as a counter, I had two generally amazing pregnancies. I felt well and was very fortunate to have little to no nausea.

        • Anonymous for this

          OMG pregnancy is nothing compared to parenting a teenager, or trying to.

          The comment about “reward” above is more true than I would ever have thought possible.

        • Anonymous

          I thought pregnancy would be awful and it really wasn’t bad at all. I’m 6 months out and I’m actually looking forward to #2. Of course, everyone’s experience is different, but anecdotally, it wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be :)

        • Anonymous

          Pregnancies vary. I had two very delicious ones where I ate ALL THE DELICIOUS FOOD. And finally had a capsule wardrobe :)

          And I had two pregnancies that I lost. The lows are truly lower.

        • TK

          Counterpoint, I found being pregnant to be mazing. Not in a mystical ‘I am one with the universe’ type of way, but it a real, ‘wow, I didn’t know belly buttons could do that,’ and ‘so THIS is what it’s like to have massive b**bs!’ It was fun. Really. It bums me out that I likely won’t have another one.

        • SC

          Being pregnant for me was awful–objectively awful, with constant morning sickness, complications, multiple trips to the hospital, bed rest, and premature birth. That’s actually the part of parenthood that has been most damaging to my career, my health, and my self-esteem. I wouldn’t have gotten pregnant if I had known that would happen, and I won’t risk it again. I’ll still say that my son improves my life tremendously–I’m happy we got through it, and I’m happy he’s here.

        • Walnut

          I’m on my second pregnancy and no one has touched my stomach. I credit my resting b!tch face for this.

          • anon

            thank you for everyone’s responses one way or another about pregnancy. I think it’s also that the unknown is scary.

            Walnut, your response made me laugh out loud.

      • anonshmanon

        another one here with the same doubts. I was always sure I’d have children. I even found the guy. But at the 30-year mark, I am not sure at all that this is what I want. Plus, career is starting to ramp up and I’m enjoying it.
        I don’t have the answer, but you are not alone in feeling this.

    • Two Cents

      I was happy with my life pre-kids and I’m happy with my life now with two kids. I had kids a bit later (at 33 and 35) and I’m really happy that I waited and did lots of travel, going out, etc. before having kids. I love my kids and I also love seeing close they are and how much fun they have with each other. It was definitely the right decision for us, and we’re now contemplating a third!

    • Torin

      I don’t think you’re missing something. Some people just don’t want kids. Just like some people don’t want any number of other things we can choose to have/do in life. If that’s you, that’s OK.

      I’m in my early thirties. I used to think that at some point I would want kids, because that’s just what you do. But, you know, I really don’t. And I’m definitely not going to have them just because you’re supposed to or something.

    • Edna Mazur

      For me, motherhood is the best thing that ever happened to me. But I knew in my bones before going into it, it was what I wanted. I yearned for children. But, children are definitely not for everyone. My house is messier, and I am busier, broker, fatter, and tireder (sp?) than I ever imagined being. The benefit I personally get from having and raising kids outweighs this, if it didn’t I would be miserable.

    • Betty

      My children have made me richer, stronger and pushed me to my limits. They have changed how I look at the world and what I value. The early days of parenting are REALLY hard. I had no time or space for myself. I am just beginning to feel like I have a bit of breathing room (kids are 3 and 6). I am still exhausted and racing from place to place most of the time, but I wouldn’t change it.

      Here’s the other thing: I LOVE to run. I am most content when it is just me, the road and my playlist. But if you were to look at me while running, I would not have a smile plastered on my face. I would be grimacing, sweating and my hair would be plastered in weird angles, and I maybe in a touch of pain because it can be so hard to finish a run, to push a little longer and faster. Yet, despite outward appearances, those moments are some of my best. Parenting is a little like that. Its hard to judge the inside, how it makes you feel and what it is really like from the outside. Don’t become a parent because you feel like you should, but also don’t judge from the outward appearance and what society tells you it is like.

      • JayJay

        This is the best analogy I’ve heard about parenting. Yes, I look miserable. Yes, I’m exhausted sometimes and want to quit. Yes, I am exhilarated and wouldn’t trade it for anything.

      • Never too many shoes...

        I love your running analogy.

        My single friends all think my life looks awful from the outside – I am a lawyer with a special needs child who is constantly trying to manage work, therapy, husband and house and it sometimes must seem like such a struggle. And sometimes it is. But then he puts those little arms around my neck and says “kiss Mummy” and, well, that makes it all worth doing again tomorrow.

        • cbackson

          For what it’s worth, in case it’s helpful to hear: I volunteer with special needs kids (physical disabilities, developmental disabilities, neurodivergent kids, and kids with brain injuries or seizure disorders, as well as some children and young adults with severe mental health issues or addition issues) who are learning a particular sport. I will admit that I pitied parents of special needs children until I became a volunteer. All I could think about was how hard it must be. I never thought about the love between parents and special needs kids or about the fact that a lot of parenting a special needs child is just…parenting, with all its joys and sorrows.

          Now those kids are the best thing that happens to me all week. Not that working with them is all sunshine and roses – some of them are challenging because of their disabilities (some of my students really struggle with impulse control, which means they can be super frustration to work with), and MANY of them are challenging because they are tweens or teenagers and a teenager with autism or Down’s Syndrome is still a teenager and can be SUCH A PITA – but kids like your child are an absolute gift in my life. Getting to teach them and getting to be there while parents like you watch them compete and win ribbons is pretty much the greatest thing. I would never minimize the challenges, but the reason I want to have kids is because of kids like your child and families like your family.

          • Never too many shoes...

            cbackson, that is just such a lovely thing to say. Truly, thank you. We have had such positive experiences with volunteers – I really admire anyone who would take on these complicated kids in their spare time. And I think (hope?) I speak for all parents when I express this gratitude.

            My son has autism so we had no idea that this is what life would turn out to be but you are right, it is mostly just parenting. Your comments about teenagers made me laugh because sometimes my kid is such a jerk – sometimes it is the autism but sometimes he is just a stubborn, five-year old jerk. Albeit a cute one. I feel similarly to you – the dark parts are dark but they highs are so high when they accomplish something.

    • Erin S

      I am 34 years old, married for 5 years, I have a 2 year old daughter and an (soon to be, any day now) infant son. My husband and I are both big law attys. Life is crazy, but my daughter has brought an immeasurable amount of joy to my life. Every day I wake up SO excited to see her. Literally every day. I don’t know that having kids “improved” my life, b/c I also feel like my life was great before she came along, but now I just can’t imagine it without her. It’s just a different life phase, as another poster mentioned above. You have less time for certain things than you did before, but that’s just how the different life phases work. I don’t see my friends as much as I used to, and I don’t have as much alone time with my husband as I used to, but it’s a similar type of change when you go from college life to “adult” life, or single life to married life, etc. It’s just different, and your focus becomes different. We would definitely have more money if we did not have kids, perhaps I would be advancing farther in my career if I did not have kids, I would definitely not be as tired if I did not have kids. But like I said, she brings an immeasurable amount of joy to my life so there’s no question that those are just sacrifices to make and it’s NBD to make them. But of course everyone is different!! You absolutely don’t need a child to have a fulfilling and amazing life.

    • Anon

      My life before my son was awesome, but it is also awesome now. My husband and I were reminiscing the other day about when we got married and were living in an amazing townhome (with no yard work or maintenance!) in an awesome part of town and would spend weekends partying and drinking by the gorgeous pool then walk across the street for dinner/drinks at fabulous bars and restaurants and festivals and farmers markets. Now we have a house in the suburbs and its 10 minutes to mediocre restaurants (and we have to do yard work!). But we have a kid and two dogs (not allowed at the townhome) and for us they are absolutely worth the trade off in value. I started to get bored with our previous lifestyle and feel more fulfilled now that I have my son. Note, he does not completely fulfill me – I still work full time in a professional role, see my friends regularly, do volunteer work, etc. but he definitely makes my life significantly more fulfilling.

    • Anonymous

      Not sure if your age and/or being single now is something that’s bringing you down, but I didn’t get married until I was 35 (met my husband when I was 35 as well – a very fast courtship!), pregnant and gave birth at 36. So the fact that you’re in your mid-30s doesn’t mean you can’t find someone and have a baby relatively quickly. If it’s something you want, of course…

      • Anonymous

        +1 I have a good friend who went from very single to married and pregnant in under a year in her late 30s. It happens.

    • Anonymous

      I think that having children is a bit like building a business and leaving a secure 9-5 job with lots of vacation. All of a sudden, you’re pouring in 110%, but it’s for something of yours. And you’re exhausted. But completely engaged and stretching to find new strengths and skills And feeling financially pinched for something you’ve committed to for the long haul. It’s a thrilling ride. And really boring with a lot of paperwork. And a lot of bills.

      Starting your own business isn’t for everyone. Same with children. But if it is for you, it’s a great and wild ride.

      • EB0220

        I think this is really spot on. (I’m a parent of 2 and my husband started a business a year ago so this analogy speaks to me.)

    • Farther down the road

      I’ll comment as a grandmother. Adult offspring are delightful, and grandchildren are a fabulous reward for hanging in there through the challenging early teen years.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks for this. I need reminders, sometimes, that parenting is a long game. :-)

    • Anonymous

      The people who say they love their kids more than they thought they could ever love anything or anyone….I mean yes, of course you do. They’re you. That’s narcissism at work for the propagation of the species. It’s not an actual reason to have kids, and it’s not a special achievement.

      • Straight to the moon

        Sure it is (an actual reason to have kids)! It goes hand-in-hand with the reason I buy the purse I love, and the shoes that are perfect with my favorite outfit, and the bra that makes my boobs like amazing — because it makes ME happy! It’s all about ME!!

        And yes, I just compared my kids to purses.

      • :-(

        I don’t think that’s at all true. My friend and her husband who have adopted three and love them to the ends of the earth would certainly disagree with you!

      • nasty woman

        Oh christ. Have you ever felt love for a child like this? People want to have kids because feeling this type of love is incredible. We’re hardwired for it the same way we’re hardwired for romantic love and to love our parents. So what if it has a biological component? All love does in one way or another. Would you ever say that the desire to feel love for a partner is not a reason to be in a romantic relationship? (Does not compute.) Or that it’s just biology’s way of making sure we bone and daddy doesn’t toss your baby into the river if its eyes are a different color than his? I don’t think anyone here is saying that literally loving your child is an *achievement.*

    • anon

      I’m 33 with 2 (3.5 and just under a year). I was happy in life pre kids, but knew I wanted kids. I’d been with DH almost a decade (college sweethearts), married for 6 years. We were ready to make a change, and it would either have been something like a coast-to-coast move with new jobs for each of us, or kids. We went with kids.

      Kid 1 was an easy transition and fit neatly into our lives. Kid 1 was an easy pregnancy and an easy baby, went to daycare, I remained in my moderate travel job and was a kick-butt pumping mom. I pumped in airports all over the country. DH and I got promoted and kicked a$$ in our careers. We knew we wanted a sibling for Kid 1.

      I got laid off with a big fat 18 month severance package when 5 months pregnant. DH got a giant promotion. I decided to do consulting vs go back to full time given my severance and DH’s new role and the impending Kid 2. Kid 2 was….everything I’d expected from Kid 1 and didn’t get in terms of rock-your-world changes. Kid 2 never slept. Kid 1 was happy-go-lucky and portable; Kid 2 is Very Persnicky and even at almost 1 year, doesn’t have a consistent nap routine.

      Kid 1 didn’t change much. Kid 2 changed everything. without Kid 2, I’d still be a 60-70 hr/week working mom. We’d be making a HHI of over 400k/yr. I’d be stressed to the max.

      Now I I’m now a PT SAHM/ PT consultant with 2 little ones. We make $300k/yr, but I don’t pay the $50k/year I’d have paid for 2 FT childcare.

      I would never be in this position if it weren’t for kids, but at the same time, I love it. I just didn’t know I wanted it pre-kids.

      • Anon

        Oh. And I’m pretty self centered and not particularly friendly. Having kids was awesome for me because they are genuinely fun for me and DH to be with (there are not a lot of people we like…) AND they are exactly like me. No shame in admitting it ;).

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t know I wanted kids AT ALL, I had regret while pregnant, panicked before labour. I looked like a mess for 1,5 years when I stayed home with the kid. In the beginning I barely showered, I wore only sweat pants for those years at home, never had a hair cut.

      But I was and am so incredibly happy to be a mom. So happy that I didn’t care how I looked to other people. And I know I’m lucky because I see even here on the board that not everyone are that happy with their choice.

      Also kids are happy at home with their parents attention. Hobbies are optional. Most things are optional. Here kids often stay home til age three and start school age seven. Older kids have maybe one or two hobbies.

    • Anon

      Late response but here’s my take.

      I didn’t want kids and didn’t plan to have them. Until I did want them. And when I wanted them I wanted them like yesterday.

      They’re a ton of work and worry and I’ve had more than my fair share of tragedies (one child died, another has a disease linked to cancers later in life) but I’m still glad I brought them into this world. I’m still so thankful I am their mother.

      They’re wonderful people and they are what has made my life fulfilling and complete. I know I would not have been happy without being a mother.

      If you don’t feel that way, you don’t have to have kids! I think you should feel strongly that you want to me a mother before taking it on, because it will change your life more fundamentally than pretty much anything else you can do.

      • Anonymous

        I just want to say I am so sorry for the loss of your child. I worry about losing my son so much. I also feel, though, that even if I lose him, having him was worth it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. <3

    • Anon

      I’ve always wanted kids and I was devastated to learn that I could not. We are now in the process of adopting a little one and our lives have changed drastically. I’m exhausted and always rushing around but could not be happier. Seeing LO experience life makes me happier than anything else could. As torturous as this process has been, I wouldn’t change our decision and now want to try for LO 2.

  17. Anonymous

    I went on a (basically) blind date last night. The guy was nice and we had fine conversation, but a couple things put me off (parents live with him being the leading one, but there were others) and I just did not have any spark/chemistry/physical attraction. I’m in my 20s and single, and by no means aggressively dating but open to meeting somebody.

    It seems there are two schools of thought on this —
    1- you need butterflies and if you don’t have them, just be honest and move on
    2- as long as you didn’t hate the person/had an okay time you should always take the second date

    He asked me if I want to get together again. Any advice?

    • tribble

      You really have to know yourself, what you’re looking for, and how much time you’re able to commit to a date that might not lead anywhere. If you’re not physically attracted to the guy at. all. then move on. But if he’s perfectly fine looking, you just haven’t had a butterflies moment yet, then why not go out with him again. Sometimes you don’t feel that spark til the first kiss.

    • AnonMidwest

      I’m not so sure it’s two schools of thought, but more of a “what you want in a relationship” I’ve never been a butterflies sort of person. In fact the one relationship I had where I had butterflies, made me so anxious that I was totally a different person.

      I far prefer compatibility and companionship over “butterflies” attraction sure, but that may not be instant. I honestly went on a second date with my current boyfriend of two years, mainly because i’d had so many terrible dates lately and he wasn’t terrible. By the end of the second date he was far more attractive to me. He still is two years later.

    • Scarlett

      I’m in the don’t waste your time camp. If you didn’t hit it off, don’t force it. Women do this all the time and end up in relationships that aren’t right because of it. Move on to the next. It’s a numbers game that you won’t win by settling at the start.

      • Anondc

        “It’s a numbers game that you won’t win by settling at the start.”

        What a great quote. Definitely bookmarking this in my head. =)

      • BabyAssociate

        For better or worse, I’m also in the don’t waste your time camp. My time is limited. I’m not saying you should have “butterflies” but there should be some sort of attraction (physical or mental) to warrant a second date.

        Also, parents living with him would be a dealbreaker for me personally. I wouldn’t do a second date on that alone.

        • Anonymous

          He owns the house they live in so it’s definitely a, “him helping them out” vs “him living in the basement” deal, but that also gives me a gut feeling parents ain’t going anywhere…

          • Anonymous

            If you liked him otherwise, I wouldn’t consider the parents a dealbreaker (at least until you saw more of their interaction). So, I would (personally) be neutral on that fact at this point.

            But if you aren’t otherwise excited about him, don’t feel obligated to go on date #2.

          • Anonymous

            Then this would be concerning to me. It would be different if parents were elderly with medical issues and he was assisting. Then I would consider this guy to be an angel. But it would still make a relationship more challenging. You have to know your own limits in that situation and not waste his time if that wouldn’t work for you.

          • BabyAssociate

            That’s what I assumed you meant OP, that he was helping out. But agreed, to me that would mean the parents aren’t going anywhere. I’m not super close with my parents (geographically or emotionally) so I personally would not be ok with that.

      • BeenThatGuy

        I’m with you ladies in the “don’t waste your time camp”. For a first date I need chemistry. If there are flags, I’m conscious of them but go for the 2nd date. If there are more flags by the 2nd date, it’s over. I’m not even looking for butterflies at this point, I’m looking for my soul to be set on fire! Anything else is a waste of my time. (FWIW, I’m 40, divorced, single parent and am officially done, done, done settling).

    • Anonymous

      You don’t want to go out with him, so I’d say no. I try to keep an open mind-if I can’t put my finger on a negative and the date was ok, I do go on second dates without butterflies. But his parents live with him and there were other off putting things, so no.

      • January

        … yeah, this. I’ve been of the “give it time” school of thought my entire adult/dating life, but all it got me was a bunch of dates I didn’t want to go on. If you have the time or the inclination to go out with him again, then by all means, go. But if you’re busy/tired/would rather watch TV, you don’t have to go out with him again.

    • Anon in NOVA

      My perspective changed when I found myself dating as a single mom. I was usually paying a sitter $15/hr to be on the date (while my kid slept… what a rip-off). I had to think of things in terms of “do I like this person enough to spend $15/hr on this?” Maybe try to apply that to your decision-making, even if that’s not the case for you. It helps put it in perspective.

      • Torin

        Ha! I like this idea. I don’t have kids, but think this could apply to any number of social activities I’m not excited about, e.g. getting invited to a party thrown by an acquaintance where I will only know 2 people. Do I want to go to it enough that I would spend $15/hr on it? If no, don’t go!

      • Anon

        Yes, for me the test is “would I rather spend an evening home with my dog than go out with this person again”. The pup wins out many many times. Probably why I’m still single.

    • Anon for this

      Has anyone ever had a relationship come out of online dating? I’ve gone on so many dates and they all just feel like interviews. Even the “good” ones where we go out three times because he is nice/cute/polite/funny I feel like we never get comfortable with each other. I’ve never had a relationship outside of 1) meeting in school or 2) through a mutual friend where we have a lot of mutual friends. Has anyone gotten comfortable with a complete “stranger”?

      • Anonymous

        This was somebody a senior colleague set me up with, but no other mutual friends. I’ve also never had much luck with online dating, though I know several people who met their spouse that way!

      • CountC

        Yes! That said, I am not married or settled down forever yet, but I have met plenty of fun people who I have dated via Tinder/Match, etc. I met the gentleman I am currently dating on Bumble and he is pretty swell.

        I am, however, a person who can talk to a brick wall, so YMMV.

      • January

        I know lots of people who met their long-term partners via online dating (including Tinder), so yes, it can work. That said, for some of them, there was a long period of trial and error, and for others, I think they are people who just don’t thrive when not in a relationship, so I think they were able to get comfortable with someone new quickly. It hasn’t worked for me, and given my own temperament, I’m not sure that it will. You may be similar.

      • SC

        I feel like at least half the weddings I’ve been to, the couple met online. And I’ve been to a LOT of weddings.

      • Anonymous

        This might not be popular advice but hear me out. You just have to bite the bullet and have an LGP with one of them. I had a really hard time connecting with strangers when I first started online dating. I became really frustrated and figured wth, had a couple of drinks to loosen up and then had a great time with my next date. I didn’t want to see the guy long term but doing that once really opened me emotionally to the possibility of connecting with someone I didn’t know very well.

      • Anonymous

        One that lasted five years, plus my current one of 9 months. I went on a ton of dates with perfectly nice people I didn’t “click” with. Except these two guys. So I don’t think you are odd or doing anything wrong, it just takes a lot of meeting people to find someone right.

        In person, you meet tons of people every day, and how many are you actually interested in dating? Very few. Meeting online is no different. I do think there is a benefit to meeting people online, in that you can screen for clear dealbreakers (smoking, religion type things) before meeting and risking attraction getting in the way of a smart decision.

      • Lillers

        I met my husband at a bar (not in college). We had zero mutual friends. On our first date, he wanted to pick me up, but I insisted we meet at the restaurant because I didn’t want him knowing where I lived in case he was a crazy psychopath murderer. I also let someone know where I would be going for the first few dates. I did this with people I met during my brief online dating period as well.

        I understand what you mean regarding the “job interview” feeling, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact everyone is nervous on a first date. That said, I felt my husband and I “click” immediately and none of our dates felt awkward. I didn’t want our first date to end; we met for after-dinner drinks and got kicked out of the bar because it was closing! Maybe you just haven’t met the right guy yet?

      • Parfait

        The guy I was dating via OKCupid didn’t work out, but his friend who I met through him did – together 5 years now. (He waited patiently until after we broke up, then asked me out. I only found out then that he’d been crushing on me from afar!)

      • nutella

        Yup- marrying him later this year!

        I also had previously always dated friends of friends or someone I knew in college and online dating was very STRANGER DANGER for me. I didn’t kiss on a first date and was very withholding of details, because I was just spooked. My now fiance picked up on this and didn’t make any moves to kiss me until he was sure I was comfortable and didn’t ask me any probing information until he knew I was comfortable. After about our second date, I felt like I had known him for years (granted they were the kind of dates that lasted hours going from lunch to a walk to ice cream to drinks, etc.) and just felt comfortable with him. It turned out we knew people in common and even worked in the same place for a year years before but I get you. As with any relationship, go with your gut and what feels comfortable with you.

        As for the OP, for me it was’t a test of “do I want a relationship with him” but “do I want to make this drinks date into dinner or do I want to go home after an hour?” and then at the end of the first date, it was simply a question of “would I go on a second date or not.” But I was a nervous dater and butterflies were more nerves than excitement for me because I was wary of online dating. Turns out it worked for me.

      • Original Anon

        This is encouraging! As you all mention I think it could be equal parts not having met the right person, and perhaps maybe a little burnout– maybe I need to go on fewer dates so I am really excited about them, regardless of how they go, and it feels less like “work”.

  18. Anon

    I am in serious need of warm weather clothes, so I went on a shopping spree. And by using a coupon code and buying a discounted gift card, I was able to get $700 worth of clothes for $250. I was freakishly excited by my bargain hunting:)

    and miraculously, most of it fits!

  19. Anon in NOVA

    Hello all-
    I’m giving two “information interviews” to grad students from my alma mater this week. I do a decent amount of hiring so I’m used to real interviews, but I’ve never given an “informational interview” before. Any ideas of what I should prepare to answer? I’m afraid they’ll expect me to lead the conversation (even though I know they shouldn’t). I’m assuming “what is a typical day like” “what career options exist for someone with my degree” etc.

    • anon

      So don’t lead the conversation. Let them know that they should come prepared with a list of questions. You shouldn’t have to prepare anything because you’re already the expert in what they want to know about (your field, and your path). If they don’t bring questions, it will be a short interview. “Is that all your questions? Great, it was so nice meeting you, best of luck” even if it’s only 5 minutes in.

      • Anon in NOVA

        True, may not need to dedicate too much of my work day to someone who can’t be bothered to google “questions I should ask in an informational interview”

    • ace

      So this doesn’t quite work for you, but if a student asks me for an informational interview/to network, I suggest they email their questions and *then* we set a time to talk/meet. This filters out probably half the people who have reached out to me, and I think it’s a totally fair requirement. If all the person has done is find my name and figure out I’m an alum, I think it’s fair to require a little more work from them.

      For these already-scheduled meetings, you can expect them to lead and if they’re not prepared to do so, end the conversation when you’re run out of stuff to talk about.

      • Anon

        +1 – I require the questions ahead of time as well. It guarantees they’ve put at least a little bit of effort into the meeting, and reinforces that it’s a professional meeting, not just hanging out at a coffee shop with friends.

        After some painful meetings, I’ve learned I need to spell out exactly what I can give them, esp for undergrads, so I have a standard email response that says something like
        “Happy to hear from a fellow alum! To make sure we’re a good fit for each other, could you send along the following info? If it sounds like I’ll be able to answer your questions, we’ll work to schedule a time in the next few weeks.
        Name –
        Major –
        Year in School –
        Intended path after graduation (Corporate, IB, Big 4, MBA, etc) –
        3-4 Answers you hope to hear –
        Thanks, and I look forward to reading your response!”

  20. Meg March

    One of my best friends is in labor and I can’t concentrate on work today! Or she might not be in labor yet– her water broke last night and I haven’t heard anything since. Either way, I’m constantly checking my phone– can’t wait to meet this sweet baby!

  21. Motivations

    What motivates you guys most in life? Is it money, prestige, quality of life (i.e. relationships, lack of stress, etc)? And why?

    • Anonymous

      Quality of life mostly, because I want to be happy and enjoy my short time on this earth. Money is a small motivating factor, but only to a point. If I were only making $30k a year I would be motivated to earn more because at that income level I would have to give up too many things that are key to my happiness. But I earn far less than most people here and am very happy and not motivated to earn any more money because I have the material things I really want (e.g., a nice house, a cleaning service, money to travel modestly) and I know more money would involve more work, i.e., worse quality of life. Prestige is not a motivating factor for me at all personally, although I sometimes cave to external prestige pressure (e.g., I went to a top college for that reason).

      • Torin

        Generally this. Money = security for me more than anything. I want to have it so that I know if there’s an expensive emergency I’m not going to lose my house and end up on the street (or, worse (for me personally), living with my mother). In addition to saving for security, I want to have enough money to be able to afford experiences like traveling and rock climbing. I don’t really care that much about being able to afford nice things (almost everything on this blog is outside my budget), and I’m perfectly happy eating out no more than once a week an drinking wine from a box because those things make it easier for me to save more and travel like I want to.

        Prestige motivates me not at all.

    • Cb

      I guess it’s quality of life but more specifically, I often find that I’m seeking a sense of satisfaction – like that feeling when you’ve spent a day out walking in lovely weather – you’ve got a sense of accomplishment, you feel refreshed from the sunshine, your muscles are slightly sore, and you know you’ll sleep well.

      For me, this is found in knowing I did a job well and feeling pleasantly tired as a result (a good days writing or teaching), a genuine connection and conversation with a good friend, working on a project with my partner, cooking and enjoying a delicious meal.

    • BeenThatGuy

      Great question. I try to end my day reflecting on these few things: Was I kind to myself? Did I impact someone in a positive way today? What could I have done better? If I can answer those questions with a “yes, yes and honest answer”, I’m satisfied and motivated that I’m not only doing good for me, but others as well.

    • Marshmallow

      I will admit that money is a big motivating factor to me. Having grown up without it, in many ways mentally money = success to me. I know that is not objectively true, it’s just a function of my brain and my experience.

      But relatedly, I’m driven by feeling accomplished. I would not take a job that paid well but didn’t feel like I was achieving anything. I like to feel like I’m learning, getting better, building my expertise, and becoming important to my clients. I enjoy when others on my team depend on me. I like mentoring.

      • Anon

        Yes, feeling accomplished is definitely what motivates me, too. I like to be challenged at work. I *do* like having a good quality of life, too, but I think I’d be willing to give up a little bit of that to feel better about my work. But just a little.

    • Anon

      It was money until I hit about 120% of the average income for my state. (At which point I felt “comfortable” that I could afford the things that I need as well as the things that make me happy.)

      Now it’s a little bit of quality of life mixed with adventure/ challenges. I envision my ideal life as a series of challenges (whether an international trip or a new position at work or starting a family) between calmer periods with higher QoL.

      Right now I’ve compromised a bit on QoL because I’ve taken a higher position at work. Hopefully this will make me happier once I get over the initial imposter syndrome, and in a year I’ll be back to feeling calmer and able to have a little more flexibility again.

    • AIMS

      Quality of life. Money motivates me only insofar as I don’t want to think about it or worry about it too much so I need a certain baseline to do that. Prestige also motivates me nominally in that I need a basic minimum of “feel good” in my life – job I enjoy and feel good about, office I like, a nice, clean bathroom (seriously! I remember an internship in law school where I knew I could never work at a certain place because you needed a key to go to the bathroom), etc. But I would say all of that contribute to my quality of life overall because it’s really about being comfortable and feeling good about what I do for a living.

    • Anon

      Money. I grew up with a single mom and constant fear over losing our house, so I equate money with security and I need it. Once I’ve built up a good nest egg and have a paid off house, I hope I can feel more secure and perhaps focus on other motivating factors.

    • Lillers

      I think I am motivated in my career by my ambition and love for learning. I think money/prestige can be a byproduct of that, but I’m happiest when I am challenged and learning something new. I like Sheryl Sandberg’s analogy of a career “jungle gym” rather than a ladder. I’ve taken lateral career moves to learn new skills which have helped me move up the ladder later in my career.

      Despite my career ambitions, I am truly motivated by my family and quality of life. I would never accept a job if it negatively affected time with my family. I also love to travel and wish I had more time off to do so.

      Interestingly, I find that my ambition gives me the opportunity for better work-life balance. It sounds counterintuitive, but I’ve been able to leverage my successes into flexible work arrangements. Once I prove myself, I have negotiated work-at-home days and alternative work schedules.

    • First Year Anon

      I am motivated by doing the best that I can, given my abilities. So that may mean taking a prestigious job, but really it is not so much about the label of prestige, but instead about taking advantage of my opportunities and know that I ‘gave it my all’ and I have no regrets.

    • Senior Attorney

      Quality of life all the way, but that’s only because I’ve passed “money” on my personal hierarchy of needs. If I felt financially insecure, money would shoot right to the top. But because I’m fortunate financially, at this point I’m all about relationships. My marriage, my relationship with my son, my friendships. And more generally, my relationships with the people I serve at work, and my relationships with my fellow humans. That sounds dorky but it’s true.

      • Anonymous

        +1 I’m wealthy and I’m super duper fortunate to also be married to a fabulous man who has money too. And a big house!

          • Anonymous

            A different phrasing, which conveys what I assume was your primary point:

            I’m all about relationships. My marriage, my relationship with my son, my friendships. And more generally, my relationships with the people I serve at work, and my relationships with my fellow humans. That sounds dorky but it’s true.

      • Senior Attorney

        Thanks for telling me what I meant. Good Lord! I also meant to convey that I have been super motivated by money in the past but I am not in that stage of life right now. Yes, I guess my phrasing was inartful.

        And what motivates you? Nitpicking others to build yourself up?

        Gah. I’m feeding it…

    • Macademia

      I think I am going to sound really hokey here, but I deeply want the world to be better.

    • KS IT Chick

      Achievement. I love the feeling of accomplishing something where the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts. I do some heavy-duty integration work and workflow management and putting all the pieces together and seeing it work just gives me all sort really good feelings. Trying a new recipe and having it come out like it is supposed to, or putting a multi-course meal (like Thanksgiving Dinner) on the table gives me that same feeling.

  22. entrepreneur reading?

    I’m looking for books to read/listen to on making leap into being an entrepreneur. I’m getting ready to leave my job due to a relocation, and I’m contemplating striking out on my own (which has always been a dream). Suggestions for reading/audiobooks?

      • Anonymous

        I am a consultant who works with startups. Yes to this book, times a million. This is the reality of entrepreneurship that people don’t talk about. If more people read the e-Myth, fewer people would sink their retirement savings into startups that don’t have a prayer of succeeding. I would add, please stay away from books like Girlboss by the founder of Nasty Gal, the book written by the founders of Gilt Groupe, etc. Those ladies are all flash and no cash, literally. Sophia Amoruso of Nasty Gal bailed out of her company before it went bankrupt and was sold off for pennies on the dollar. Gilt Groupe has had serious financial problems and probably won’t make it. Read books by entrepreneurs who have been in the game longer than 10 years and aren’t trying to build a “lifestyle brand” for themselves, instead of a business. I also recommend “Lean Startup” by Eric Ries, “Four Steps to the Epiphany” by Steven Gary Blank, and “The Big Book of Small Business” by Tom Gegax.

  23. Midtown NYC for a physical?

    I am long overdue for a physical. Either a gyn or a GP who will do a pap would work for me. Any suggestions in midtown Manhattan? TIA!

  24. Elder care/ health issues

    Hi Hive, Marshmallow here.

    My 85 year old grandfather is suddenly facing an array of serious health issues, including congestive heart failure and early stage kidney failure. For various reasons I am the best person to take point on dealing with his doctors and helping him make decisions. He’s mentally with it but he is not a sophisticated guy, struggles with reading, etc. So he’s going to need help. He lives about 4 hours away from me but my job is pretty understanding about me going back and forth if need be.

    He doesn’t have a living will and has difficulty understanding the doctors. I feel like a living will is the obvious place to start– can anyone recommend a good online resource? Is this something the doctors/ hospital should have a form document we can fill out together? I’m a lawyer but this is very far from my expertise. Frankly I have no idea if he has an actual will either, but right now I’m more concerned about his health.

    Any other tips or resources for helping make healthcare decisions for an older, non-local family member? Other first-line things I should be doing? Virtual hugs?

    • ohc

      Oh, Marshmallow, I’m so sorry to hear this. Holding you in the light.

      The Conversation Project has “starter kits” that might be useful for your immediate needs.

    • LAnon

      A few things I would recommend:

      1 – Advance directives (aka living will) – hospitals will have standard forms available, or you can just download ones off the internet. The important thing is that they get completed and returned to the physician so it can be documented and added to your grandfather’s chart.

      2 – If your grandfather’s physician uses an online patient portal where lab results and documents get posted, see if you can get access to it as a caregiver. Some places, all you will need is your grandfather’s permission; other places you might need a more formal guardian relationship. That should allow you to review follow-up instructions and reiterate them to your grandfather even if you can’t make the appointment.

      3 – Work with him to make sure he understands his medication schedule and has a system that he understands what to take when. There are lots of resources out there to help with this – basic pill cases, bags you can label, talking reminder/alarm clocks, apps, calendars, etc. Getting his correct medications, in the correct doses, at the right times, will be critical to his health and is unfortunately where a lot of older people struggle, especially if they have a lot of medications. If you can’t be around to check every day, having a system where you can make sure he’s all set for a few weeks or a month will be very helpful.

    • Julia

      I’ve heard a lot of experts recommend the Five Wishes living will, which you can find on the internet. It is set up in a way that might make it easier for you to talk to your grandfather about what he wants without it seeming like a direct conversation about resuscitation and life support.

    • anna

      It is really lovely that you are stepping forward to help your grandfather. This will provide him such peace of mind, and will bond you to him in ways you cannot imagine. Your parent will also be so grateful to you.

      Honestly, it is a little difficult to do this from 4 hours away. The thing he needs the most is someone taking him to doctor’s appointments, asking the questions he forgets to, writing down the answers, and making sure he remembers the myriad of instructions for managing his care.

      Is he living alone? Is it time to consider safer, assisted living options. That is a big additional question.

      But first, I would try to plan a visit soon for a day when he is seeing his primary doctor. It is probably a cardiologist, or maybe a PCP as well. You need to all be on the same page about what his current situation is, what the doctors recommend, and what his prognosis is.

      Then, after the appointment, you need to just spend time with him and ask very, very basic questions.

      What did you think about what the doctor said? What is your understanding of what is happening to your body right now?

      How do you feel about that?

      What would you like to do about it?

      I want to help you in any way I can. Are there things you want me to know about how you want to live your life right now? And what if things get worse with your health?

      And just listen. See what his fears, priorities are. Often you get to nitty gritty naturally.

      This is how I learned that my father wants to live as long as he can enjoy pizza and coffee and good conversation with people he loves. That says a lot. It took time to learn he wants to donate his body to science, he doesn’t want a formal DNR/DNI since he is not frail and we learned the hard way that having this in your chart to some ER doctors means…… “Do not treat…..”

      Tell him you want to be there to help him through this. Ask him if he would feel comfortable if you speak on his behalf if he isn’t feeling well or needs help. Then transition into asking about you becoming power of attorney. If your parent will also be visiting often, consider sharing this responsibility with them, or it may be a lot more work for you.

      If possible, making an appointment with an elder care attorney in his area would be good. Ideally, you can find one who can assist making the power of attorney documents (medical, financial) and often they also can go through a standard/state form to ask for any preferences he has about medical/end of life care (living will type stuff). And then, if that goes ok, they can ask if he has thought about setting up a simple will.

      Honestly, living wills are not really that important in a reasonable family where people are on the same page and the parent has made their basic preferences known. The trick is asking your grandfather what aspects of his life are important to him right now. Give him as much control as possible.

      If he needs more help at home, call the local Department of Aging, and set up a home visit/interview while you are there to see what sort of resources he would qualify for in his area.

      (((((hugs))))))

      You are such a good grand-daughter.

      FYI – you can search google by his state/living will, and often there are a bunch of examples and references. They vary state to state.

      • AnonZ

        Not to be argumentative, but just to correct a few of the things here:

        “…having this in your chart to some ER doctors means…… “Do not treat…..”” – this may have been true at some point in the past, but advance directive instructions are now much more explicit about what treatments should and shouldn’t be provided.

        “living wills are not really that important in a reasonable family where people are on the same page and the parent has made their basic preferences known. ” – this sounds nice, but can quickly fall apart in reality. Even in a reasonable family, people can have very different interpretations of how someone’s basic preferences should be acted upon. Since you are not close by, in an emergency, care decisions may have to be made before you can reach the hospital. On top of all this, it will be a relief to you to have made these decisions ahead of time and not when emotions are running high–otherwise reasonable people react different ways to emotionally charged situations.

        Anna, I would encourage you to have further conversations with your father, as well. Knowing what he values in life (pizza, coffee, conversation) is really good, but at some point, you may need to take the next step into translating that into specific care decisions.

        • anna

          I’m trying to give her general guidelines for how to start the conversation.

          For a distant grandchild to come in and start going through legal advanced directive forms does not usually go very well. And really, misses the point.

          DNR/DNI in the chart is very, very, very tricky with no advocates locally to help, and is not usually appropriate at this stage.

          I work in healthcare, and go through this process with patients often. The elder care lawyer, and sometimes the doctor’s office can go through the nitty gritty of forms. You let the nephrologist discuss with grandpa whether he wants dialysis, when you as a grand-daughter do not even understand what this means yet.

          It is much more useful for family to simply begin simple conversations. Which are not so simple. But they are doorways.

    • Marshmallow

      Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the resources and kind words.

      My mom does have some capacity to help and she lives much closer to him, so that’s good. She is just not a great decision-maker and she often looks to me for help herself, so I’d rather be more involved now than be stuck with fallout from bad decisions later.

      Grandfather lives alone. He has a much younger best friend who checks on him daily and up until now he hasn’t needed much medical help, so I’m hopeful if he can get over this hump and into a treatment routine he will be okay on his own for a while. But yes, that is another conversation to have with him. I know the last thing he wants is to go into a nursing home but ideally he would seek out a middle option like a home nurse if necessary.

      • Senior Attorney

        Please start looking into caregiving/alternate living arrangements sooner rather than later. I learned the hard way with my parents that often people who are living independently need to change their living situation suddenly when an illness or injury strikes with no warning. It’s no fun to have an elderly parent or grandparent in the hospital and be desperately trying to make arrangements in the face of an impending discharge.

        • Anonymous

          +1

          I don’t want to be a rain cloud, but if he has congestive heart failure and early stage kidney failure, he’s probably not going to return to his old self. He will be needing care in the near future. I recommend researching the options near him and you so that you’ll feel well informed when the time comes. It would also be a good idea to get on the waiting list for your/his top choice. FYI, there are brokers for assisted living and nursing homes.

          In addition to the advice above, you may consider setting up his finances in a trust that you can access.

          • Senior Attorney

            +1 to the brokers. I used a referral service and it didn’t cost me anything but it really helped me narrow down the options.

      • NOLA

        My former SO just went through this with his stepfather. After a health crisis, he went into nursing care for the period that Medicare covers (90 or 100 days) withe the idea that he was working toward getting back home. The hospital social worker helped a lot with placement into the rehab facility. He did go home, with care provided through a service that the nursing home offered. Not cheap but worth it because they provided both nursing care and simple things like rides to the doctor and groceries and cooking. One of the women who worked for that service because his backup caregiver and ended up going to his medical appointments with him. The stepson also had access to the medical portal and the caregiver would report what really happened at the doctor and help him ask questions, etc. He passed away on Sunday night, after his kidneys fully failed, but he had great care up until the end, even without a family member in town handling everything on a daily basis.

    • Marshmallow

      Thanks everyone, just wanted to check in and say that I am still reading responses. I’m going up there on Friday and will stay the weekend. He’s getting some test results on Friday so it seems like a good day to meet his doctors and start conversations that need to be held.

  25. Anon

    How to handle? Just got off a videocon- a junior colleague and I (he does not report to me but we work together, and he is the designated point of contact with the team on the other side of the vc) – he is a talker, and I think he felt nervous even though we’ve had numerous vc’s with these two women before – once or twice he actually interrupted one of them but mainly, because they are so polite and wait their turn, he simply would not shut up- reiterating the same point over and over. A couple times I gently interrupted him to give them a chance to talk, but wow. He is a sweet and very sensitive but defensive person. Suggestions for what if anything to say now and how to handle better in the future please!

    • Anonymous

      For now: “Hey, I don’t know if you noticed, but you were very talkative on the call – such that it was hard for the clients to get a word in. It wasn’t the end of the world here, but next time, try to focus on giving them a chance to speak or finish their thoughts before jumping in. I know the VC set up isn’t necessarily ideal for gauging when someone is done talking, but keep it in mind for next time.”

      In the future, keep interrupting, if necessary.

    • LAnon

      My company has a video-conference policy that you mute yourself if you are not speaking, just to prevent issues with background noise. What has evolved is that the icon changing when someone unmutes themselves is the equivalent of a raised hand – indicating someone would like to speak. I think it also helps people be more thoughtful about when they speak. If you have to unmute yourself, you’re less likely to just blurt stuff out.

      If you feel like taking a non-confrontational approach, you could suggest next time you’re on a call that everyone mute themselves if they’re not speaking. Then you can facilitate the conversation by saying, “It looks like so-and-so would like to say something.”

      One caveat from re-reading your question – this works best if it’s a video conference like a Google hangout where each person is on their own connection. It would probably be harder if it’s groups of people in a conference room connected by video.

    • Anonymous

      Another thing that might help is to have an agenda for the video conference so that points are outlined and it can keep the meeting and all participants from veering off course. Then at the end, too, each person can be called upon to see if they have any questions or comments to add.

      • OP

        Thanks all! I think I can use the language above, softened even more- “let’s get them to talk more next time- I felt like we did most of the talking last time”. This is such a defensive guy, it’s hard to work around. I feel sorry for my colleagues on the other side of the VC (different country, same company)!

        • Anonymous

          I think that language is good – as someone who tends to talk too much and repeat herself!

          Advice that I received which was SO helpful is to count to 10 between thoughts to allow people time to respond or comment. I literally still have to do this, even after ~15 years. I think it’s completely fair to suggest it on the grounds that the VC software causes a lag, so count to adjust for it.

  26. gloves?

    Anybody seen good end-of-season sales on nice leather gloves? Prefer silk or cashmere lining. Bonus points for fun colors, but plain black is fine too.

  27. Anon

    I would appreciate any recommendations for a meant-to-be-seen camisole that comes in XL. I want to wear my blouses unbuttoned at the midpoint of my chest so that the buttons don’t pull. I’ve seen this look done well, I just haven’t found the right cami.

    • Anon

      I love banana republic’s kinda spandexy tanks (for some reason I feel like I usually find them at the outlet/factory stores more than the standard store). I occasionally wear them how you want to. I mean they’re plain but the coverage is perfect and there’s no weird lines or anything.

    • anonymous

      J. Crew has silk camisoles (the Carrie Cami) in their suiting shirts section that go up to size 16 and might fit the bill. Selection looks a bit thin right now, but my sense is that silk camisoles of some type or another are pretty constant for them so a restock or a similar top should appear in the relatively near future.

    • Anonymous

      I have some tanks from LE that work well for this. They are substantial material and have a neckline at the perfect spot between too modest and too low.

    • Bonnie

      Wacoal bralettes. I got mine at Nordstroms. They provide coverage but aren’t bulky.

  28. OK

    I really need some advice, commiseration, not sure what exactly. I’m sorry this is long, but I’m at the end of my rope. My mom is living with us now, getting close to a year, and things keep getting worse. She’s from a different country, where I was born and lived until college. We never had a great relationship – she’s not a warm cuddly person, has a major martyr complex, and would “put me in my place” constantly as a kid to make sure I didn’t think I was all that smart or all that pretty. I know she loves me, and she thought it was the best way to make me work harder and stay modest, but it was painful. Made it easy to move thousands of miles away to another country as soon as I could. I’d call parents once a week and they came to visit a few times, but she and I were never close. We lost my dad (whom I was close with) two years ago and mom hasn’t been well since. She’s always had some paranoia, but it got really bad (was convinced people are plotting to kill her, that her place was bugged, wouldn’t leave home, wouldn’t eat, lost 40 pounds). So we moved her here. She’s much better, doesn’t think she’s being watched here. But it’s been hell on my marriage and family. She’s such a negative person, and she and I have such a complicated history that it’s just hard. She’s taken it upon herself to cook and clean the house. Then she greets us with a sour face when we get home and talks about how tired she is and that she’s in the kitchen/on her feet 12 hours a day (not sure why it takes that long). When we tell her not to do that, she gets upset and we get a lecture about how our house was a pigsty when she came (biweekly cleaner, but yes, messy by her standards), we ate crappy meals (not true, but not the ethnic food she’s used to), she can’t live like that, and we should be more grateful. No one even wants to be home anymore. Kids and husband complain about her, she complains about them. Husband speaks the same foreign language but they don’t get each other at all – she’s whiny and he can’t censor himself when he’s upset about something and has a direct, hard to get used to communication style. I’m torn between the husband who’s acting like a freaking child during a time that’s already very hard for me and a mother I don’t like (harsh, and I feel really bad, but it’s true. She made me feel inadequate my entire childhood and it’s hard to set aside). All on top of working 12-hour days and a lot of weekends. Husband and I are fighting almost daily (the stress of dealing with mom has turned him into a grade-A jerk). If you made it this far, what do I do? I tried to get her to meet people to see if that will help her demeanor, but she makes up reasons not to go (she’s painfully shy) and won’t ever call the people I introduce her to again, waits for them to seek HER out. They don’t do it very much, probably because all she talks about is negative stuff. She doesn’t drive, too scared to go to the grocery store alone (5 minute walk) because she doesn’t speak the language. She has a few friends back home that she calls, and then husband complained about how high the bill was (over $400 but he shouldn’t have said anything). So she stopped, and now she just complains I don’t spend enough time with her, but I can’t deal with all this negativity and listening to her complain about my husband, and I barely see my kids so I’d rather give them the few minutes I have at the end of the day and remind myself who I work so hard for. Am I being a brat? Do we need family therapy? The only therapist I found in my town who speaks the language charges a ridiculous amount and doesn’t take insurance. My husband says it’s a waste of money, but I’m willing to go if it would help her/us. The problem is that it will take lots of money just to get through the backstory, and I don’t see how it would help? She was always like this, and she’s not going to change. If anything, she’s mellowed out since my childhood. And I can’t be around someone so negative. I ran away from that more than 15 years ago. Living with her now is tearing my (imperfect, but decent until now) marriage apart. Can’t move her out – not just because of the cost, but also because she’s scared to live alone. I’m so lost. Many days I just want to take the kids and run away. This is no way for them to grow up.

    • SC

      I’m so sorry. I think you should see a therapist alone to talk out these issues. I don’t think a family therapist is going to help because your family members don’t sound open to changing.

      Also, I think your last line is the most important. You know how hurtful your mother was to you, so don’t let your kids experience the same thing. You should work on finding a way to move your mother out. A social worker may be able to help assess your options.

      • OK

        Thank you SC! I went to a therapist a few times and she said the same thing, to try and figure out a way to get mom out of our house. But the second I mention that, she gets so upset, and then gets sick (just happened again this weekend, I brought up a nice apartment complex close to us and she’s been in bed 2 days with heart/blood pressure problems). She offered to go back home, but it’s a very passive aggressive offer – “just let me go back, and then whatever happens to me will happen, it’s all God’s will.” I can’t send a mentally ill person back to the place that triggers her paranoia. I tried to be a dutiful daughter, but it’s not working. I can’t deal with her, and I feel so bad. She’s had a very hard life, culminating with my dad’s death. She’s trying to help us, she wants the best for us, and it hurts her feelings that she’s not more appreciated. But she doesn’t want a thank you, she wants the “poor you, we feel so bad that you’re working so hard for us, now let’s talk about all the awful things that have happened in your life to date, all your illnesses, and all the bad stuff that could happen to us if we don’t go to church more often, all the things that we/kids are doing wrong, etc.” I can’t give her that. It’s just not me.

        • Anon in NYC

          I honestly don’t have much advice, but have you considered buying a different house that has a separate in-law suite? I can totally understand why you can’t/don’t want her to live with you and also that you can’t really send her away. If she were to have a separate living space but still have proximity to you, maybe that would make your day to day a little easier.

          • OK

            Thank you so much- just hearing that I’m not being irrational and it’s not all my fault for not letting this roll off my back helps already. It’s not the living quarters that are the main problem, it’s the fact that she takes over the kitchen and will stay there from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m., so she’s always there, searching for things to do/foods to cool/dishes to clean/kids to feed, and then complains about it. Drives my husband nuts (he works from home). So we need a separate kitchen, too. :-). I loved Frozen Peach’s suggestion below about a small house in the back. Will research our zoning restrictions, but that may be the solution we need so desperately.

          • Anon in NYC

            Yes! My husband’s grandmother lived with his family when he was growing up. Her apartment was attached to their house (his parents converted the 2-car garage), but she had a separate entrance, a kitchen, bathroom, etc. It was entirely her space. She did have a door into their family room/kitchen so it wasn’t completely detached. I think it worked well when his grandma was younger, more mobile and active. As she got older and she became lonelier (friends started passing, she became sick) I think it was harder on his parents because she started coming into their space more frequently. Similar to what your mom is doing now!

        • Anonymous

          She is obviously manipulating you. But I understand your guilt/feelings. This is not easy. And I guarantee ….. it is going to get worse, and destroy your marriage.

          Just continue to talk about moving.

          • OK

            I suspected the same thing, and then feel awful for suspecting it. She’s always been a hypochondriac, so she’s also more sensitive to every ache and pain. It’s pretty close to marriage destruction already. And I’m worried lack of focus may destroy my career too, and I’m the primary breadwinner, so that would really screw things up.

          • anon in SV

            Save your children from the childhood that you endured and survived.

            Maybe play “what’s the worst that can happen?” with yourself. If you send her back to the home country, the worst that can happen is… she complains and drives you crazy from thousands of miles away but you have your personal space back, your marriage improves, your kids feel better, and maybe she dies much sooner than she would have had she stayed in the US and destroyed your marriage, your sanity, and your kids’ self esteem.

            Therapy will help you decide whether you can live with that. It’s a personal decision. From what you said, I personally would be ok with “the worst” here.

            Just because you’re related to her by blood doesn’t mean you owe her everything.

    • anonymous

      You mom needs to move out. Find a way to make it work. My mom was more or less in the same situation as you a couple of years ago. I’m almost 30 so not living at home, but her younger children had similar things to say, plus my mom’s dad was abusive when she was young, so really no one liked him and he was an awful person but was unwell and had all sorts of aversions to living on his own. I’m not totally sure how the funding ended up working out, but neither my mom or her dad had any money, so I’m thinking this is workable.

      This is going to sound harsh, but it is what it is. You have a choice to make here. There are two sides of this that appear to be fundamentally incompatible, and you need to choose what means the most to you and what you can live with. right now, you’re choosing your mother at the expense of your husband and kids. I think your home situation will continue to deteriorate unless you choose them over her. Having her move out is not the end of the world. Try to find a place where she can be taken care of and the burden doesn’t fall on you. I know she’s scared and not what she wants, but the reality of this situation is that there are choices and tradeoffs to make. You’re choosing one that’s making everyone unhappy. You could just as easily choose something else. Maybe that choice doesn’t feel much better or isn’t any better or whatever. But you have a choice to make about how you want to live. Decide what you can live with and what’s most important to you, and then act on it.

      You might want to consider individual therapy and/or couples counseling.

      • OK

        Wow, I never thought of continuing to live like this as choosing my mother over my husband/kids, and that’s a scary realization. That’s certainly not the intent, especially given my childhood with her. I’m going to figure out a way I can do this. I just needed this reality check. It’s been so easy to feel like a spoiled entitled brat when my mother tells me she gave me all the efforts and meager resources she had when I was a kid, and now I don’t spend enough time taking care of her when I only have a few years with her and many more with my kids, and don’t defend her when my husband criticizes her.

        What did you mom end up doing with her dad?

      • Torin

        +1

        OP it sounds like you are trying to parent your mother in addition to your own children, and I don’t see that as your responsibility. You’re bending over backwards to welcome her into your life, even trying to help her make friends, and in return she treats everyone around her poorly and refuses to even leave the house. She is choosing to be lonely and miserable. Her choices are not your fault. So far, her awful behavior hasn’t resulted in negative consequences because you have the idea that you should “let it roll off your back”. This is completely unfair to you. If she’s awful and people don’t like her or want to live with her as a result, well, that’s her fault.

        I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this and that is has gotten this bad.

        • Frozen Peach

          + 10

          This issue got much easier for me when I started framing it as a choice between my parents and my husband/kid. One is a black hole of endless need. The other I joyfully choose and enjoy.

          • OK

            That’s exactly it! Frozen Peach, I’d love to take you up on your offer to chat off line if you have an e-mail I can reach you at. And thanks a million for the advice.

    • anna

      This is just. awful.

      I hate to say this, but your mother needs mental health treatment and probably needs to get out of your house. This is destroying your marriage, and your family. I don’t blame your husband for his impatience at all, as I would be much much worse than him if my spouse forced this onto me.

      Her mental illness is a huge, huge problem. And I warn you… without appropriate medical care, she will get worse with aging.

      You have to save your family. You have to save your children.

      Go see the therapist yourself. Alone. And call your local department of aging and have a meeting set up to see what sort of services your mother would qualify for, if any. Then start putting her name on subsidized apartment lists. Consider contacting distant friends/relatives in your home country and see about her returning there.

      Does she have a doctor here? Call the doctor’s office and describe her symptoms of severe depression with paranoid delusions. Then bring her in for an appointment.

      You can present to her that she is clearly not happy, you are not happy, your marriage and family are suffering. Things have to change. You have to prioritize your family right now. Shoot, tell her divorce is in your future and financial devastation. Talk with your husband so your story is on the same page. And tell her she can no longer mis-treat your children in any way and stick to that.

      And please, setup free internet phone calls for her so she can call home. Isolating her with no contact with people who speak her language is not right.

      It will not be easy. You will feel constant guilt. But she has to leave. And you would be doing the right thing.

      • AIMS

        I just want to chime in here to second the unlimited internet calling. There are a lot of hard issues here but a $400 phone bill doesn’t need to be one of them.

        • OK

          anna (and AIMS) by Internet calling, do you mean Skype? We got mom an (older) iPhone and installed Skype and Whatsapp so she calls friends who have computers/smart phones that way. But lots of them only have a landline. Is there a service she can use to call them? Can she do it from the phone? She’s not good with computers.

          We’re also going to get her a TV in her room and subscribe to cable channel(s) from “back home” so she has more entertainment. Can’t do it now because she doesn’t want it during Lent. That’s entirely my fault – I should have thought of it sooner, but it just hit me over the weekend. We used to have those channels on the TV downstairs and my husband would have her come down to watch, but they’re barely speaking now and the cable provider that offered those went out of business. I should have found a new one, but work was crazy and she never asked and it just fell off my radar.

          anna, to respond to your questions: mom won’t qualify for any services until we get all of her immigration paperwork approved (hopefully soon, been filed long ago). So for now, healthcare is all out of pocket. And the language barrier means one of us has to go with her. Until just now, work has been crazy busy for me for nearly 4 months straight, and my husband was willing to take her but their relationship has deteriorated like crazy so she won’t even go with him. Today is the first day I have time at work, which is why I wrote this novel/horror story, and plan to figure out what I can do to fix this mess. I’ll call the one doctor who speaks the same language right after lunch. I actually called her when mom first came but mom’s reaction to going was really negative so we didn’t go, but there’s nothing our relationship has to lose at this point.

          She knows no one is happy, and she does feel bad. She wants to help us, and thinks she is, she’s just so negative and she thinks we need to learn how to deal with that because she had a hard life and we’re too artificially optimistic/happy when that’s not how life should be. She thinks things would be better if I was just a nicer, more patient, more accommodating daughter and spent more time helping her and talking to her. And she’s right. But it’s hard for me because our every conversation brings me down after a long stressful work day. And my kids need me too, not to mention my poor husband. She doesn’t mistreat the kids, and she cares about them–all of her past issues seemed to center just on me. For the most part, kids have a decent relationship with her, she just complains they don’t want to spend more time with her/talk to her and they complain about the ethnic food she makes them eat. :-) Plus, the fact that they’re not all that fluent helps there.

          • AIMS

            Yes. Vonage! There are others. It’s your phone but requires an internet modem and you can call basically almost anywhere in the entire world for free (or technically as part of your monthly bill). It’s been around for years and is very reliable.

          • OK

            Awesome, thanks! I’ve heard the name but it never occurred to me it worked for international calling.

          • Torin

            “She thinks things would be better if I was just a nicer, more patient, more accommodating daughter and spent more time helping her and talking to her. And she’s right.”

            She is not right.

            You are enough.

          • anon

            What if she did move back and you hired her a companion in her native country? That way you could get a heads up if her paranoia starts to flourish, and she may be more comfortable in more familiar surroundings (and most importantly you and your family would get your lives back.). I don’t think you’re off base here–frankly (and I don’t mean this to be negative) she’s using your guilt as a weapon against you.

          • anon in sv

            This reminds me of what abusers in DV relationships say. If you were just nicer, more patient, and more accommodating to me, and spent more time with me, I wouldn’t be such an a$$h0l3. It’s YOUR fault that I act like this.

            No. NO. Adults are responsible for their own actions. There is nothing that you could twist yourself into that would “make” her better. And you wouldn’t want to do that anyway. Look at what it’s costing you and your family to the degree you already are.

    • Been there done that

      Big big hugs. We are dealing with a very similar situation with my MIL, who we had planned to move in with us. We did a “trial run” for a few months, and it was a disaster. She was negative, whiny, we were all fighting and no one was happy. Her negativity was draining me. So she actually ended up going back to home country, where I honestly think she is a lot happier — she knows the language, doesn’t have to depend on anyone for transportation, can meet up with friends regularly, etc. But we know this is not a long term solution because there will come a point when she is too old/ill to be living alone, particularly thousands of miles away.

      I know that there is so much cultural pressure to take care of your parents when they are older/have them live with you (I assume you are from one of these cultures where this is the norm) but I’ve only seen it work in cases where the elderly parents are very flexible and open minded and easy going. In a situation like yours, it’s very very tough. And this is obviously taking a toll on your marriage and your family, and she doesn’t seem happy either.

      So a couple of questions/ideas:

      1. Are there any retirement communities nearby with people from your background? If you live near a big city, you would be surprised that there are retirement communities with people of many backgrounds.

      2. She’s probably very bored at home and needs some stimulation/socialization. Is there a cultural center or a place of worship that would provide some of these social activities for people from your community?

      3. Can you have an honest talk with her about what SHE wants? Maybe she doesn’t like living in America and would rather go back home. It’s so so hard to come to the US as an elderly person with no grasp of the English language. It’s terrifying, really. I can’t blame her for not wanting to go to the grocery store.

      4. Have you considered having her live in a small rental close to your home, where she can visit frequently but you still have some freedom? I know she would balk and this goes against cultural norms, but this might be a solution that will give you the privacy and freedom that you need. I’ve seen this set up with a few families we know and it works out well. Yes it’s definitely more expensive but it could be worth it for your peace and well being and marriage.

      Good luck, friend. Happy to chat more off-line if you would like.

      • OK

        Thank you so much for advise been there done that! I’m glad to know I’m not the only one. My friends with similar backgrounds have lucked out with flexible, high-energy, positive moms who come and go every few months. Plus, they had more normal relationships with their mothers to begin with. I bet your MIL is happier back home. My MIL (who’s positive and optimistic and pretty chill) used to come for 2-3 months at a time and we got along great, but she always wanted to go back to friends and ability to get around independently. I just don’t think I can send my mom back because of the mental issues/paranoia.

        about your questions:
        1. Sadly, no retirement communities for this nationality in my mid-size city. People from my birth country who live hear are all sub-40, and their parents only visit, don’t stay. I’ve found 3 women my mom’s age, all live with their kids.
        2. Yes, take her to church nearly weekly (40 min away). Just dawned on me to get her a TV in her room and cable in her language (used to have, but provider went out of business). I think this will help with boredom, totally a mental lapse on my part.
        3. She doesn’t know what she wants. She’d rather go back home, but is still convinced that the people who are trying to kill her are still back home, waiting for her to come back. She won’t admit she could have imagined it, gets very upset. I know it’s hard to adjust to a new country/language, but I don’t think going back is an option.
        4. Yes, you got it exactly right about the apartment – she literally got sick when I showed her an actual apartment this weekend. Like, cried that she will die there alone and we won’t even check on her for days, and been in bed for 2 days straight.

        Would love to chat with you more. Do you have a throw-away email you can post? If not, I can go set one up.

        • Been there done that

          Hi OK! You can write to me at corpor e t t e fan1008 at gmail (no spaces but I’m trying to avoid moderation here).

        • Violet

          Hello,

          Some brilliant comments, insight and suggestions here. My two cents:

          1. Are people really after her? These things are possible. If so I’m not sure what to suggest. If not, seems like she may need medication to get those anxieties under control.

          2. What about ‘sending her back’ and hiring some caretakers for her there: a body guard, someone who could just live with her?

          Good luck!

          • OK

            Thanks Violet! Yes, the advice has been incredible and I finally feel encouraged hay I can find a solution. As to your questions:
            1. No, nobody is after her. I thought it could be true at first, but I asked everyone she interacts with – friends, neighbors, etc. and they never saw anyone following her. And she was convinced they bugged her place, followed her everywhere, in cars and on foot, and ultimately that she can hear them talk about her because they’re located somewhere close. For various reasons, that part is not possible.
            2. We might end up doing something like that. Just don’t know how to find the right person remotely, and get mom to trust them when she’s so suspicious. Or how to keep that person from taking advantage of her.

    • Anon

      As someone had similar issues, I think you do need to get your mother out of the house. 1- You can find her a studio or apartment close by where you can choose how much time you and your family spend with her or 2) you can find retirement communities that cater to people with specific cultures. I know there are some just for the south asian community.

      • OK

        Yes, I really want to get her out. Desperately. And she protests just as desperately, which makes me feel like the biggest jerk. She’d rather go back home despite the people she thinks will try to kill her than to live apart and not see us daily.

        You said you had a similar situation, what did you end up doing? I’m really liking Frozen Peach’s idea of a small house in the back yard. If our zoning restrictions allow it, that may be the way to go.

        • Anonymous

          I have joked with my mom for years about getting her a “granny pod” – check the google. And I wish you the best. Trust your instincts and don’t let your mom’s happiness be more important than your marriage.

        • Erin S

          OK, I don’t want to throw a wrench into what seems like a plan you might pursue, but I worry that you’re going to spend all this time and money building a house in your back yard and then your mom will just end up at your house, you know? Can you see that happening? Is the backyard really far enough away to solve the issues?

          • OK

            Erin, you might be right. I really don’t know. I suggested we rent her an apartment close by but that went over quite poorly. This might work better. And if she ends up needing to move back into the house, at least that house in the back can be my husband’s home office?

          • Anonymous

            Don’t suggest. Tell “mom you need to move out. I’ve found you an apartment near by.”

    • Anon

      Step back and look at your situation from a stranger’s perspective. Your mother should not live with you.

      There is no outcome that is going to make everyone happy. You are extremely unhappy right now. When your mother moves out she will be unhappy. (Though she doesn’t sound all that happy now to be honest.)

      You just have to put on your big girl pants and say this is not working, you must move out. And have all the details worked out when you tell her this. Here is your place. You move in tomorrow. Here is how we will care for you.

      Get your life back, girl. This is not a dress rehearsal. This is your one and only life. Don’t throw it away feeling guilty.

        • OK

          I needed just that – both tough love and a stranger’s perspective! I’ve been feeling like I don’t have a choice at all – must take care of mom, must keep her close to help her overcome the paranoia, don’t have other options. For the first few months she was here, my husband and I both though having her being around us will cheer her up and she’ll be more cheerful and upbeat once she’s better. But it’s clear that won’t happen. She’s not happy and probably never will be because she feeds off negativity and feeling sorry for herself. And she’s made the rest of us miserable in the process. Like anon in SV said above, the worst that can happen is that she ruins the good life I worked my tail off to build. I have to move her out. And it’s a great idea to just have it all ready before we tell her.

          • Frozen Peach

            As long as you let her voice rule your conscience, you will feel like you don’t have a choice. A therapist really helped me once by saying, look, right now there is a family of sane people letting the crazy person run the show. Which is crazy. :)

            I will also say that my husband found the acts of pushing back and standing up to my mom incredibly romantic and a turn-on, and they were huge turning points in our relationship (and still are, occasionally)!

    • Anonymous

      Move her out. You can and you must. Find a nearby apartment and move her. Do you want to wind up divorced with kids who are never home living with just her? That’s where you are headed. You’ve really really tried and you’re obviously a very caring person but this is not working. (Also your husband sounds not great, but is he just not great because he doesn’t want this?)

      • OK

        I really don’t. I already feel like I’m short-changing my family because I work so much (but I love my job and we’ve made it work until this). Last thing I want is to derail my marriage and relationship with kids because of mom.

        As for the husband, he’s not perfect, and he could have handled many things better, but he really supported bringing mom here. And he tried SO HARD to draw her out in first 4-5 months she was here. Like, spend hours with her while I put kids to bed, talk to her, turn on the home country TV for her and sit and watch with her. But that prolonged exposure to her negativity made him very snappy, and he gets angry that after all these months she still isn’t happier/more cheerful/more willing to go try new things. And because he has no internal filter (like, at all, it’s frustrating) he will just tell her that. And she is so sensitive that it immediately becomes a huge fight. And then she wants to tell me all about it when I get home, adding to the perpetual loop of negativity.

        • OK

          Clarification – really don’t want to end up living with her, alone. Yes, have to figure something out where she won’t be in our space.

    • Been There

      So I come to this with some relevant experience – I have an MIL who speaks only a foreign language and is super difficult so I relate to your husband, and I lived through my Mom’s mom moving in and how difficult that way so I relate to your kids.

      1. Kids – Your children are old enough to understand that sometimes grown-ups are grumpy and difficult. Don’t worry about them too much right now, focus on keeping the arguing between the grown ups to a minimum. Speak to each of them individually and acknowledge your family is going through a lot of change right now and it’s hard but every one loves them. Fixing the problems with your DH and your Mom will help them so focus your energies there.

      2. DH – Your DH needs to step up to the plate. In a big way. You have lost your Dad and you are having a hard time with your mom. He needs to be an adult and help you strategize how to deal with this. He should be trying to help you reduce your stress not adding to it. Arguing about a $400 phone bill is insane (in addition to skype etc there are international calling cards you can buy that work with land lines – if you’re paying more than 5 cents a minute, it’s too much). Even a $200 phone bill is cheaper than therapy. He needs to improve his attitude and step up to the plate as a supportive partner. No more arguing with your mom.

      3. Yourself – practice self care, put on your own oxygen mask first. It is not selfish to do what works best for you, because that protects the overall health of your family (including your mom/DH/kids). Find a therapist for yourself who specializes in elder care issues and cross cultural issues. Don’t be afraid to figure out what you need and insist on it from your DH and your mom. You have a right to be happy, they may not love the plan but their happiness is not more important than yours.

      4. House – set your mom up with an in-law suite that has a bedroom and a sitting room area with a television. Also a table with a kettle so she can make herself a cup of tea without accessing the main kitchen. I’m suggesting an in-law suite vs. a condo elsewhere in your city because I think she will constantly be calling you to come over. It’s a lot easier to stop in and have tea with her for a half hour if she’s in the same physical building. She can clean her own space plus main kitchen area etc. She doesn’t need to be on your bedroom floor area. This gives DH an area that she’s not in.

      5. Food – encourage your mom to cook. It’s meaningful for her to contribute and it’s an actual thing that takes a burden off of you. Have a set night (e.g. every Friday or Saturday) as a ‘take out’ night or ‘pizza night’ where the kids get to pick the food. This gives the kids some relief. Mom can eat leftovers from one of the other days if she doesn’t want the take out. A spin-off activity from food is gardening – if she is interested encourage her to grow herbs/spices that she uses to cook with. Can be indoor window herb garden or outdoor full vegetable plot. Will help keep her busy.

      6. Time – have a couple set nights in the week where you go over and watch TV with your mom, chat with her in her sitting area for an hour. I suspect her insistence and you taking her places is also about her wanting to spend time with you and it creates a ‘need’. Have a set date night with your husband.

      7. Language – you mention a foreign language and that your kids are not fluent. What language do you speak at home? If you primarily speak English with DH and your kids, this can make your mom feel very isolated. If you all speak the same foreign language, I would encourage you to speak it at home more frequently. It’s a great benefit for kids to learn multiple languages and your mom will feel more included. Set up tv in her language in her sitting area and set up ability to call home frequently from her sitting area/bedroom. Ask friends/family from home to call her regularly.

      8. Health – I would focus on the physical health and blood pressure issues. She may be open to taking something for anxiety if it is explained to her as something to help her relax so her blood pressure doesn’t get too high.

      Hope some of that helps. You’re doing an amazing job considering that you have lost your Dad and you are dealing with a difficult mom and husband.

      • Anon in NYC

        This is really great and practical advice. Assuming that there is no immediate solution (i.e., moving your mom out of your house), there need to be boundaries put in place that carve out time for just your nuclear family without your mom. It will be sanity saving. I remember going to my inlaws home right after we got engaged and my MIL took us into a room farther away from her mom’s apartment to celebrate because she wanted to have that moment for just her, FIL and us without her mom.

        I’ll also add that FIL was a gem in dealing with living with his MIL. He wasn’t always perfect, but he always did what he could to help smooth everything out. I don’t blame your DH for being extremely frustrated with your mom, but picking fights with an isolated miserable woman who lives in his house and literally has nowhere else to go is not a smart move and is adding to the overall misery in your household.

      • OK

        Thank you for your great advice Been There! I printed it out and will add these points to the list I’ve been writing for myself (i.e., therapy, housing, TV, etc.). I will need to work hard to set aside time with mom. Maybe therapy will help me figure out how. We just aren’t compatible. It’s like going on a really bad date, where you disagree about nearly everything the other person says, from politics to religion to raising kids. Maybe therapy will help me there.

        On the language point, DH and I primarily speak English at home and then native language to mom. Kids do the same. Mom isn’t happy about it, and I get that it can be isolating, but I frankly can’t parent in my first language. Years ago when I tried to do it, I noticed that I use more critical/harsher words than I’d ever say to my kids in English, and last thing I wanted is to turn into my mom. But I just realized that we can probably do language school on the weekends and in the summer, and grandma can help them do their homework! It would be good for all of them.

        • Been There

          Not sure if you’ll see this but I just wanted to add that on the language point, I wouldn’t think of switching entirely to foreign language. Continue to parent in English (even for people aiming for bilingualism, it’s actually recommended in textbooks not to scold or discipline in the language you are trying to encourage). But just try to work in more foreign language into the day to day chatter ( pass the salt, how was music class, rainy weather this weekend etc). Maybe even focus on praising your kids in Foreign language (Great job on your science test etc) I know my MIL gets very stressed and tense when she doesn’t know what’s going on. Helping your mom understand more of the day to day of family life may reduce her anxiety/tension.

          Example: You to Kid in Foreign Language: How was soccer practice?
          Kid answers in English: Blah Blah scored a goal
          You to Kid in Foreign Language: That’s great! Congrats on scoring a goal.

          And I really really want to emphasize that you are doing a great job in this situation. You are good enough, you are doing enough and there’s no magic ‘being a better daughter’ thing that will automatically make your mom be easy to deal with. Aging parents are a challenge, even when they have easy personalities. My own Mom loves to complain about her various ailments and go into details about how she helped us. It’s classic older person behavior. There is likely no outcome here where your mom, you and DH are all super happy. I would focus on reducing arguing, setting firm boundaries for both your mom and DH as to how the interact. The goal of therapy for yourself is to help you build coping strategies and accept that you are a good daughter. I had to do therapy to accept that my MIL viewing me as someone who was taking away her son vs. gaining a daughter, had absolutely nothing to do with me, and I was good enough as I was. There was nothing I could have done to make her view me more positively. Therapy helped me get to that place of self-acceptance. When the complaints etc are like water off a duck’s back, it is much easier to find peace.

          • OK

            Thank you again! We’ve definitely tried to do some of the dual-language dinner conversations along the lines of what you suggested when mom first got here. Given the recent tensions, we’ve definitely slipped on that. Will do it more. There are a lot of things we tried to do first few months that she deemed “not enough” (like kids stopping by her room to say good night in he language every night) and so we gave up, but shouldn’t have. It’s hard to drag a negative and oversensitive/complaining person into conversations and activities, but they still need it. I know a lot of this is typical old people behavior, but the fact that it’s coming from the woman who was never nice to me growing up and now demands my affection, time, and sympathy makes it so.hard.

            I’m sorry about your MIL’s attitude towards you – you sound like a thoughtful and caring person most moms would love for their son!

      • OK

        Been There, my longer comment got stuck but I wanted to quickly say thank you! I printed your post and will add these to an action plan I’m writing myself based on this highly therapeutic and much-needed discussion. Now off to catch up on work I put off all morning!

    • Anonymous

      I think one priority here is her mental health. Is she getting help? The paranoia could be treatable. If it improves that could open up so many options, even moving back to her home country, which it sounds like she really wants to do.

      • OK

        She hasn’t exhibited any symptoms since she’s been here, although she still believes it was real. Would a doctor be able to help? I admittedly don’t know enough about mental health, but I thought it was maybe situational and fear/loneliness based?

        • Anon

          No, paranoid delusions are not situational, and she is clearly depressed from what you describe. While we can’t be sure what her diagnosis is, and yes a motivated doctor could help.

          • Anon from 3:02

            This. Please take her to a psychiatrist. And it’s better to get treatment for delusions early, as beliefs get more fixed or she could have a condition that worsens over time (for example, her paranoia could expand to more people/situations). Even if you have to trick her into going by telling her it’s to help her manage her anxiety or something, it’s important that she gets medical help.

          • OK

            Thank you both! I guess I was hoping it’s a one-time breakdown due to the extreme grief of losing my dad and being all alone in an urban (yet safe) neighborhood. But she was always worried others were watching us and thinking we’re rich when I was a kid (laughable, we were slightly better-situated among the working poor), so it’s probably an escalation of a life-long problem. I’ll stop sticking my head in the sand. I just made an appointment with the doctor who’s a native speaker (only one in town , so I hope she’s good. Otherwise, I’ll see if there are any who do phone/Skype sessions). Mom is definitely depressed but refuses to see a doctor for that. I’ll go myself first, then bring mom and couch it as “helping us get along better.” Wish me luck!

    • Anonymous

      I’m so sorry. I could have written almost the same thing. My husband is more of a silent-sufferer so he doesn’t actively complain too much, but I know he is unhappy with the situation. I am too. I know I need to look into different living arrangements but I also know it will make my mother very angry. She is the same way in that she will complain about something (the kids being loud for example) but when I try to remedy it like by getting out of the house for the afternoon, she complains that we don’t spend time with her. It is so, so hard. But I agree, you (and I) either need a house with a separate in-law suite or an apartment or something for mom. Good luck. It will probably be one of the hardest things you will ever have to do, but it must be done for the sake of yourself, your marriage, and your children who only get one childhood.

      • OK

        I’m so sorry too Anonymous! It’s so, so hard. We were in the ‘silent suffering’ stage for a while, but not anymore, so hope you find a way to change this before things get worse. For us, the less time I was home because of work, the worse things got for everyone. I hope some of this advice will help you too. I’m going to go catch up on work and then start researching alternate housing arrangements because I know this can’t go on. If only money were no object!

        Hang in there.

    • Sarabeth

      My husband and I have had a somewhat parallel experience, although with a sibling instead of a parent (which does make the guilt a bit easier to manage, I think). The big lesson that we’ve learned, though, is that you cannot take on personal responsibility for saving someone from their mental illness. It’s probably true that social interaction with you helps to mitigate it, but you still can’t devote your whole life to keeping your mom sane. Both because it probably won’t work in the long run, and also because you will destroy yourself in the process. I’m not saying you should just ship her back home and wash your hands, but you need to set some limits on the kind and amount of help that you provide.

      Therapy for my husband was the best thing we did about this situation. It helped him both to understand his sibling’s condition better and to set healthy boundaries about how much of the burden of managing his sibling’s illness he is willing to shoulder.

    • Similar but Different

      You have a tough situation and I wholeheartedly emphasize. My mother moved across the country to my city and lived with us for a year after she divorced my father after 30+ years of marriage. My husband doesn’t speak our language and my mom’s English is not great, so I was the go-between when she lived with us. Luckily, she eventually adjusted to our city and felt comfortable enough by herself to get a place of her own. My mom had similar traits (martyr complex, extreme negativity) while I was growing up and looking back now, it was because she was so unhappy being married to my father. Now that she is on her own and has become her own person, she has really blossomed (less critical, pleasant to be around) and our relationship is a lot stronger than it was pre-divorce, pre-move. There is hope for you!

      Thoughts for you:
      -Your mom is a in a difficult place right now mentally, emotionally, and physically. She is probably scared about being alone and in a new country and is likely expressing her feelings the only ways she knows how: by cleaning/cooking/caring for your family and house, by complaining, and by being a martyr/difficult. Your relationship likely reverted to the previous “roles” with scripts and is stuck in a bad cycle.
      -Do not move her out until she is ready to move herself. She is in a bad state right now and forcing her out will only worsen your relationship, perhaps permanently.
      -You, your husband, and your kids should thank her and tell her you appreciate her help every single day, even if you’re mad. I know this is probably not typical in your culture (touchy-feely conversations are definitely not in mine either) and it will be strange at first. Eventually, this will help with her martyrdom and help your family resent her less.
      -Direct/guide her energy toward other things. Suggestions are below.
      -Do not give her opportunities to criticize or be a martyr especially when trying to get her to do new things,. Tell her you’re going to do XYZ and she needs to come along to experience it. Or just buy thing X & Y rather than asking if she wants them (similar to dealing with a toddler). She can criticize after she’s tried the thing, but this way she cannot refuse beforehand.

      Strategies that worked for us:
      1. Try giving her an iPad. My mom was techno-phobe, but when we gave her our old iPad, it was like magic. Something about the large screen and limited number of buttons really clicked when an Android phone and iPhone didn’t. Now she’s on websites from her native language, WhatsApp-ing, watching shows from back home all the time. She’s seriously addicted to her iPad.
      2. Help her find a hobby. Would she be into sewing? Gardening? Underwater basket-weaving (hah)? A hobby will give her another sense of purpose and help get her out of your space. If she shows interest in anything, I would just buy some supplies, set them out, and let her know she can try it if she wants. My mom really got into gardening after her divorce and loves to putter with her container garden and give us herbs from her harvest. Recently she got into baking with yeast and is always researching new recipes in our native language on her iPad or puttering around in the kitchen.
      3. Help her get out of the house. She is intimidated by her new country and staying inside your house does not help with that fear. Go on a walk around the block and make her come along. Use your neighborhood as a conversational starter for what’s different and same between America and her home country. How is she getting ingredients for her meals? Have the whole family go shopping together every Saturday morning with her. She gets out of the house; there is a purpose to the trip; kids get to bond with grandma. Win-win-win. Even better if there an ethnic grocery store in the next city over. How about when you run errands? Take her and her kids along!
      My mom loves to go to our local library with our son. This gives her a purpose for that day and she enjoys people watching. She also loves going to Goodwill and other thrift stores (because she says prices at normal stores are outrageous and she loves a good deal). Goodwill is a conversational gold mine about American culture and habits.
      4. Help her find connections to her native culture. You mentioned TV, but how about a newspaper or magazine subscription? Books? Download shows over the internet? I would just order the newspaper/magazine/book and set it out when it appears. Do not ask her if she wants it first, because it will give her a chance to criticize or be a martyr (“Oh don’t waste your money on me on that nonsense”). Is there a big city nearby with a bigger population? Perhaps they have events she can go to…if so, make it a fun family outing.
      5. Enlist your kids! Have them play board games with grandma. Have her read to them. Perhaps order some books in your native language. Make them on walks around the neighborhood together; kids are great cultural ambassadors (trust me, I was one growing up to my parents). This may help them like her more and it will help her feel like she has a purpose/is appreciated.

      • OK

        These are all so great, and so positive! Thank you for this. Maybe there is hope for our relationship after she goes to therapy and gets meds? Her unhappiness/negativity is definitely internal, dad was the calming presence in her life and I was the irritation because I was hard to control/mold to her believes. But I’m going to start implementing your tips, especially the “thank every day” advice, along with taking her to therapy and trying to promote independence (and also move her to a guest house in the back yard so she’s close but separate). Mom’s hobbies are cooking and praying. That’s literally it. We have a lot of books and had friends bring fresh magazines but she’s not into them. But I just realized I can probably get her subscribed to some religious bulletins or magazines from our language-specific churches in America, hopefully. And great idea about the iPad. She’s getting better with the iPhone and will even YouTube religious videos about Lent on it, and a bigger device will help. And I’ll try to encourage cooking some more. It’s so sad, I hoped she would cook with the kids who love doing it with me. But she tells them not to touch stuff because they’ll do it wrong (even the teen), and they end up just standing there while she cooks. That brings up all sorts of unhappy childhood memories for me too, so I gave up. But I’ll try again. Maybe kids just pick the ingredients and then she cooks? And we all go to the store to get the stuff.

        Funny about Goodwill – that’s literally the one bonding activity she and I have. That’s the only place she’ll agree to shop for same reasons as your mom, and I love shopping in all forms, and even found some gems for myself. But she’s been refusing to go shopping or grocery shopping lately (Lent yet again). Hopefully after Easter.

          • OK

            Yes, that would be ideal. But it’s a tiny church and not a lot of volunteer opportunities (beyond bringing food for coffee hour on Sundays, which we do). Plus, it’s 40 minutes away, so not that easy for us to take her during the week (more like 1 hour then, with traffic). We found a woman at church who’s lives not too far from us, is just as religious as mom, drives, and is willing to take her, but mom refuses to reach out (or have us do it) and waits for the woman to ask. Which she does, but not weekly, for services. I’ll ask that lady if they do something during the week. Because mom will never go alone because she’s painfully shy.

        • Similar but Different

          I hope you’re still reading this late…
          Do your children enjoy your mom’s food? Flatter her and have them ask for her to teach them to cook. You know, those dishes that only she can make. Approach it as them wanting to learn about and preserve their heritage–how can she refuse to teach them to cook their favorite dishes? They can go shop for ingredients with her, interview her about the proper techniques/methods, and even make record videos as she prepares each dish. Maybe end goal is for your children to cook a meal by themselves with her supervision. Hopefully, this approach will appeal/flatter her and give her a sense of purpose, pride, and end accomplishment and build her self-esteem.

          • OK

            I am :-). Thanks, this is a great idea, and making videos will appeal to the kids. There are definitely some foods she makes that they like. And a few DH and I love, which we’re always sure to praise. Maybe she and the kids can make something vegan for lent, enough for home and for her to take to church – that will get her out of her room!

  29. Closet Redux

    Quality check: which brand do you prefer for quality, Banana Republic or Loft? I’m going to do a quick wardrobe refresh at one of these stores but I can’t remember which is better quality. They seem to be about the same price point.

    • SC

      Banana Republic, but I think it’s much more expensive than Loft, particularly when you factor in the almost weekly 40% off sales at Loft.

    • Anonymous

      Quality at BR is definitely better but I find Loft has more interesting shells/tops that I might have in heavy rotation for only one or two seasons so BR overall but Loft for trendy office tops.

  30. Frozen Peach

    Oh man. I made it to the end and I FEEL YOU. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. Lots of us also have difficult mothers– your description, minus the language stuff, matches mine almost entirely. Here are my thoughts– and I’m happy to chat more because I’ve dealt with similar issues.

    1) Get a therapist for yourself, stat. Solo therapy will help you make plans and think through all this complex emotional stuff with your mom/husband/kids/self. It will help you feel less swirly and begin to regain control over your own home and family life. I agree with you, family therapy with mom will be a giant waste of money.

    2) You do not owe your mom exactly the scenario she wants for her life. She has agency and is able-bodied and capable of taking care of herself, at least in some ways. Right now she is “happy” but is responsible for making at least four people downright miserable all the time. That’s not fair, and she’s not happy enough to make that math add up anyway. She may have to compromise and you may have to present her with some hard choices, but you don’t owe her living in your house. YOU DO NOT OWE HER THAT OMG. I know there’s a fantastic reddit group about this issue– maybe someone else remembers the name.

    3) Along those lines, start brainstorming options– any options– that would mitigate the misery for now. Can you build her a tiny house next door? Could she move back home and live with a friend or in some kind of cohousing situation for older people? Could you pay a friend back home to live with her or be a sort of supervisory person? It is never going to work for her to depend on you as her sole source of connection with the outside world.

    4) Consider trying some “either/or” psychology. Either you move out or you take English lessons with someone who comes here so you aren’t so isolated. Either you spend at least two evenings a week in your room so that we can have time as a nuclear family or we will drop you off at the movies. Those are made up examples, but they work for almost anything. I think having some one on one language instruction may really help her become more independent. Also, there are often religious groups that provide a lot of social outlet opportunities for older people. Not sure what your background is, but the Korean Presbyterian church near me holds a rollickingly popular bingo night (popular among the 55+ crowd, anyway).

    And HUGS. You don’t have to carry this alone. Vent here. Vent to a therapist. Plan family outings without your mom on a very regular basis so you guys get some time to enjoy each other without her storm cloud of negativity hovering nearby. It is an okay thing to want time to yourselves, no matter what she says.

    • OK

      Thank you so much Frozen Peach! These are great suggestions! I replied to SC above about a few things you mentioned, but this gives me a lot of additional ideas (and hope). And venting felt SO GOOD. I’ve not told anyone this and it’s been eating me up. I like the thought of building a house for her – our back yard is big enough, and that would still be cheaper than an apartment/condo near us, which she’s resisting like crazy. But on moving her back home, I’m sure we could find someone we can pay to take care of her but I’m really worried about sending a mentally ill person back to the place that triggers her paranoia. She was hearing voices by the end of it, and I fear the person who takes care of her will just run off if that happens.

      We don’t have a large community from the same country here (not a small town, but nothing like NYC or SF) and there are very few people her age, all of whom don’t drive (cultural in that age range, late 60s). Been taking her to church, which is 40 minute away, almost every Sunday and she’s starting to meet people but she won’t talk to them unless they talk to her first. Language instruction won’t help – she has too many fears/anxiety, so even if she knew a bit of English, she will never go anywhere alone. First few times at the church she refused to stay alone when we had to go do something else during the service even – and that’s in her language among people who believe the same thing!

      • Anon

        I don’t know your culture or background, but I hear you keep saying that you’re worried about sending a mentally ill person back to the place that triggers her paranoia. Was that truly the whole country? Or just the home where she lived with your dad?

        What about a different apartment or assisted-living-type-place in your home country? If she hasn’t already tried that, she can’t claim that it will trigger paranoia – she doesn’t know if it will. Since she’s in a decent place mentally now, she can make plans on how to prevent that, like arranging weekly therapy or nurse check-ins, with an Option B if it arises or gets unbearable (again, like a different housing or monitoring arrangement).

        If I were you, I’d get her out of my house asap. I get the pressure to support parents in their old age, but there is something to be said for breaking the cycles of the past. You DO NOT want your kids to grow up thinking this is the norm or that they have to accept abuse in their own home. You also do not want to teach them that throwing a fit will get you what you want – which is exactly what is happening with your mom. Set your boundaries for the good of your family (if you struggle to set them for the good of yourself) and enforce them. That will be the best lesson of all for your kids.

        • OK

          Thanks Anon! I suggested we look at moving her to some places near her friends, but she finds reasons each one won’t work. She likes her neighbors and the location of her current place (and I agree that it’s well-located and neighbors are great – they’re the amazing people who helped me when mom was too afraid to talk to me on the phone and refused to come visit and I was thousands of miles away). But she does say “they” (imaginary bad guys) will find her anywhere a because they want to take over her condo and think she’s rich because she has a daughter in America. There were some news stories back home recently, apparently, about seniors getting killed for their residences that her friends told her about, so now she’s convinced she was right and this will happen anywhere, because she’s all alone and related to someone who’s overseas. Her place is old, not in good shape, and not worth much. Not worth bugging and surveillance she believed to be under. But that’s too much reason for her to consider.

          Assisted living facilities in my home country (well, my podunk town there) are not good. Rude staff, horrible furnishings, people don’t live long in those. And she won’t consider moving to where my MIL lives. Just flat refuses. That would have been my preferred solution (assisted living in my MIL’s much better city) and my MIL is willing. But my mom resents my MIL because we have a good relationship with her. Gah, this is so hard! I’ve been looking for solutions for 10 months now and each one gets shut down.

          • Anon

            Then she is either 1) losing her say in the solution or 2) losing you as help. Give her a deadline. “Mom, you cannot continue to live with us. As of May 1, you will need to move out. Either I can help you find a place, or you can do it on your own, but on May 1 a moving van will be here for your stuff. If you don’t agree to a place by then, I will have one picked for you. We have tried this for 10 months and it is not working. This is not negotiable, we have exhausted any other options but this. Let me know if you find a place or want help looking.”

      • Frozen Peach

        Of course! This is so hard. Don’t stop venting. It cleanses. Seriously. Toxic mom stuff loses its power when it sees the light of day. I have a few friends with equally bonkers moms with whom I have a policy where we can just repeat hurtful words or absurd life advice and laugh out loud and deconstruct the crazy and then suddenly they aren’t so hurtful anymore, just absurd.

        This particular flavor of mental illness gets a lot of its power from never. letting. you. have. a. break. That’s why I suggested all the escape plans– you will never have the peaceful, rested presence of mind to make healthy but hard decisions to set boundaries and protect your marriage/kids if none of you ever get a break from her. It’s a control strategy, even if an unconscious/mental illness one. Carving out time for yourself, you and your husband, and you/husband/kids is reasonable, healthy, and a really important first step. Right now she/her illness have got you on the ropes, your batteries drained, you’re already in reactive mode. Do some repair work away from her, even if she sulks about it. That is the first step. It gets easier to tell controlling parents things they don’t want to hear with practice– when you see the sky didn’t fall and the relationship didn’t end, the next time is a tiny bit easier– and so on.

        • OK

          Thank you again. Every word you typed resonated with me. Seriously, this community is so amazing. I used to read a lot before I got busy at work but never posted, and I’m so glad I did today. We do need some escape plans for just me and the husband and just me and the kids. The two days she’s been in bed have been the happiest I’ve seen my kids in months. Her words just roll off my back now that I’m an adult, but her general presence and moods changed the equilibrium in our family. I need to feel less guilty about restoring that balance and happiness, even if that makes me the worst.daughter.ever of all her friends.

      • Anon

        How old are your kids? Of all your worries, I’d let go of that one completely. First – kids are resilient. Second – doesn’t sound like the difficulties she’s having with you and DH extend to the kids. The only issues with the kids are that they don’t spend enough time with her and aren’t in love with ethnic foods, which she assumes they must be bc it is their ethnicity. Guess what – this is the complaint of every ethnic grandma EVERYWHERE. Every immigrant kid can relate to having to eat ethic food they didn’t like – we all survived and your kids will do. I vividly remember complaining about it with other kids of the same background and then we’d compare w other kids of different backgrounds – i.e. at least you get to eat Chinese food every day, I have to eat daal every night ugh.

        • Anon

          I disagree with disregarding the kids. You’re describing a positive, happy ethnic grandma. What OK has is the more toxic kind, and kids emulate what they see. The MIL has been verbally abusive to her daughter for a lifetime, so I doubt that has changed. So the kids see Grandma continually harping on Mom (and Dad, and maybe themselves), sulking, whining, complaining, and see that Mom and Dad let that happen over and over. They see Mom and Dad prioritizing “tradition” over their marriage. They see Grandma pout for 2 days (!!!!) just because there was TALK of moving out. These are not healthy behaviors, and those kids will spend dollars and hours in therapy trying to undo that type of “normal” in their lives. Ask me how I know.

          • OK

            Thanks for your perspective and sorry you had to deal with something similar as a kid. What’s making this harder is that neither DH nor I even care about the “tradition” – we’ve both lived here since late teens and aren’t very plugged in with the “old country culture” at this point. We just feel bad for the old, lonely, sick person who has literally no one else in the world except a few friends who are older than her and one or two sympathetic neighbors back home. But this person we feel bad for is also whiny, always sour-faced, critical of most of what we do/don’t do, and remembers every semi-critical thing any of us have ever said to her (like from years back). Goodness, if I still remembered 1/100 of the critical things she said to me, I’d be curled up in a ball in a room with no windows.

            We get the fun ethnic grandma experience when my MIL comes to visit, and I only laugh at that point about the “weird to them” foods my kids complain about.

        • OK

          Good points, and if that was the issue, I wouldn’t be worried. I agree, a little bit of different cuisine never killed anyone!

          My worry with kids is that we’ve spiraled down to the point where they’ve overhead loud arguments between husband and grandma and me and husband on more than one occasion (not in front of them, but it’s not that big of a house). They’re elementary-middle school aged, so old enough to understand when things aren’t great. And I don’t want them to think this type of a dynamic is normal, so I want to fix it. Honestly, if my husband didn’t react like this to her, I’d find a way to be okay with living with my mother, past issues and all. But he can’t, and I can’t blame him really. If his mother moved in and acted like this, I’d probably feel the same.

          • Check

            You’d deal with her because she would be manipulating you again, and you wouldn’t have another adult to consider. Another adult (your husband) standing up for what sounds to me like the good of your family. I understand wanting to support a parent or an elder, but there is No Reason your mother can’t live by herself. Either at an apartment or in her home country or wherever. The house out back won’t work- you are looking for a halfway decision to avoid standing up against her. She knows throwing a tantrum will get you to do what she wants, that’s why she put you down your whole life to make sure you never got strong enough to stand up to her. Look out for yourself and your family. If you keep putting her first you are going to end up alone with her. It sounds like your husband has been amazing and patient, I wouldn’t do that for anyone’s MIL!! Appreciate him and understand his “communication style” comes from having to see his woman put down the wife he loves. There is no reason your mother cannot live alone, she is an adult and is responsible for herself. All adults are and plenty make do with much much less. She is lucky to have what she does and there are services available. It doesn’t have to be cruel or mean to her and if she chooses to frame it that way, that’s on her. She made the choices she thought were best when she was your age- was she putting her parents first? She is also not an infant- just acting like one.

        • Lobbyist

          Good luck and I am sorry you’re dealing with all this. It sounds like you cant make her happy. You’ve tried. Nothing will make her happy. So, maybe give up on that as a goal and keep her safe and cared for, and keep yourself and your family happy. That may mean sending her to MIL hometown and place, or back home to another house/apartment. But if she is not happy in your home with all that attention and she shuts down every other suggestion then I think you have to save yourself and make a decision. Send her back home. Go visit once a year, and bring the family every other year. I am really sorry you are going through this. Update back, please.

          • OK

            Thanks Lobbyist! I’m going to try taking her to a psychiatrist and see if medication can help her. If not, I will have to do something radical. Will definitely update.

  31. Weird feelings.

    Recently found out an ex is expecting with his fiancee (also learned this recently). Things ended because of me (I always decided I didn’t want to be with ex) and ex was always the one on the hook, hoping that we’d come back around. Ex would have proposed in a heartbeat. I haven’t seen him in a few years, though we text each other on holidays and other special occasions.

    Went to grad school/got married and have a great career that I always wanted, but have definitely made sacrifices in the relationship and personal arenas because of the demanding nature of my career (not law or accounting, but something similar to the time pressures). Not unhappy at current place in life, but kind of in a “rut” (nothing super new and exciting going on in any area of life). I also do not want children.

    What is this weird feeling I have of feeling a bit jealous of his life? I certainly don’t think I missed out (we would have killed each other and it was a very unhealthy relationship), but can’t really shake the weird feeling.

    • Senior Attorney

      I think it’s normal to have that tiny weird “what if” feeling upon hearing news like this. Maybe take it as incentive to get something new and fun going in your life? Doesn’t have to be big… just a little kick in the pants, right?

  32. Baconpancakes

    Hope it’s not too late for responses, but any thoughts on phone interviewing while sick? I woke up this morning with nausea and stomach pain, and ended up coming home halfway through the day. I could theoretically make it through my 4:15 phone interview, but I’d prefer not, just in case I do end up getting sicker mid-interview. But this is a job I really want, and I’m afraid it will be a “sorry, no more interview slots available” situation.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I don’t have any great ideas- if you can push through, I’d probably do that, but it obviously depends on how you’re doing. Maybe drink some ginger ale and suck on a few peppermints right before (or, if you have it, pop a zofran or two…) and just do your best. SO sorry, nausea is the worst.

      • Sloan Sabbith

        Ignore Anonymous, she told me the same thing below. Nausea is the worst…

        Sorry, BP. My comment is in moderation. If you can do it, I’d do it, but I think people are pretty understanding about being sick. As someone that has put, well, everything before my health before, I understand wanting to do it, but don’t make yourself sicker.

        • Anonymous

          No I didn’t! That’s a different anonymous. It’s a phone interview in her own home for a job she wants. She should suck it up!

    • SC

      Honestly, if it’s a job you really want, I think you need to suck it up and do the phone interview. Take some anti-nausea medicine and hope for the best. Even workplaces that wouldn’t consciously “ding” you for canceling might move on in the hiring process, as you suggest. Hope you feel better.

  33. Sloan Sabbith

    My water bottle leaked all over my bag this morning. SO UNPROFESSIONAL. :P

    But really, so annoying. Soaked notes I had about a presentation I went to last night (and the ticket for the same event, although that’s being dried on my desk), my keys, my headphones (….which I’m hopeful still work since they’re brand new), my wallet, the tea bag I tossed in this morning to make at work (causing my whole bag to smell like tea).

    Grr. I was so proud of myself for drinking 100+ oz of water the last 3 days and now I’m just grouchy about my sopping wet bag.

  34. Anonymous

    How long would you wait at the doctor’s office for a long-scheduled annual physical exam? It was for 9:00 am, the earliest the office said they schedule appointments. I showed up 7-10 minutes early, filled out the paper work, and then sat in the waiting room for 33 minutes. I never even got taken to the back by a nurse to do the basics (height, weight, blood pressure, etc). Everyone around me and people who came in after me got called to the back. Finally, I just told them I had to go and that this appointment would have to be rescheduled. Am I crazy?

    • cbackson

      I wait 15 minutes past the scheduled time and then I complain. The complaint is usually along the lines of “I took time off of work to be here and I need to know how much later the doctor is going to be.” If I’m not called back within 5-10 minutes after that, I tell them that I’m going to have to leave and that I won’t be rescheduling with their practice.

      I know that people probably think that’s harsh but I’m tired of poor customer service at doctor’s office- like, I would never in a million years think it was okay to dial into a conference call 30 minutes late, but it happens ALL THE TIME at the doctor’s office. And yes, before all the doctors chime in with an explanation of how this is because doctors are trying to squeeze in sick people at the last minute – this is not a rare occurrence. It is a very common occurrence, which means you guys need to figure out how to schedule in a way that doesn’t mean inconveniencing people. I’m lucky, because I’m salaried, but for hourly employees those are lost wages that they’re never getting back, just because you’re late.

      • Anon

        Nice attitude. Doctors are mostly late bc they are trying to spend more than the allotted 10-15 min per patient bc that isn’t enough for most people – so then the delays cascade. And most are required to schedule 4-6 ppl/hr bc the health system they work for and/or their insurers deem that to be “enough” time with patients – even when it isn’t. Though w that attitude – I’m sure they don’t care that you aren’t coming back – they are busy enough w/o you.

        • Anonymous

          I would think any doctor would be honored to have a brilliant big law partner as a client.

        • cbackson

          Look, I’m sorry, but you’re in a service industry. So am I. I know that it sucks, but I’m a patient too. And I have other things that I need to do that day. I may have people literally screaming at me because I’m supposed to be on the phone at 10:30 AM and I can’t be, because I’m at the doctor and the doctor was 45 minutes late – universally, without apology or acknowledgement that the delay was inconvenient. Sure, treat me like a punching bag. I know I’m lucky. But imagine that instead of being a Biglaw partner (which you know because, unlike you, I don’t post anonymously), I’m a minimum wage hourly worker who has to decide between losing three hours of wages or walking away from a doctor’s appointment that she may have waited six months to get. Same response? I should just suck it up because you guys can’t figure out scheduling?

          • Anon

            + 10000.

            My BF is a physician and I tell him this all of the time. It doesn’t really influence his practice, but I try to educate him on the things that drive people nuts and how it’s unfair to patients. As lawyers we are NEVER allowed to be late. It is just not a thing at my firm.

          • Anon

            To give a counter argument, you never know what a patient is going to walk in with. Never. So you can’t know ahead of time how much time is needed. So this is an unfair comparison.

            One complaint turns into 3. One patient comes in with a list of questions. One patient needs to be taken to the ER ASAP and needs an EKG stat. One patient expresses suicidal ideation so. One patient needs an evaluation for dementia and comes in with a bunch of forms. Your nurse calls in sick (ugh). A shot/medicine needs to be given, and then time spent to see what happens. Etc…

            Not so easy to say…time is up! Sorry…. Make another appointment!

      • Anon

        Amen. I’m so sick of that excuse, or the one about staying late with a patient to answer an unrelated question – you clearly know it this going to happen. The problem is that doctors are trying to squeeze too many appointments into the day. Either plan more “fluff” for running overtime, or build catch up hours into the day. It’s not a difficult solution.

        OP’s was a first appt of the day, which is even more obnoxious. My first OB office did that, “because they’re running late from rounds at the hospital”. No. If they’re working the hospital shift, or doing rounds before their office times, then you schedule buffer time. Don’t waste my time for a scheduling conflict that you clearly knew was coming.

        The total disregard for patients in a doctor’s office is just astounding.

        • Anon

          Give me a break. Most doctors aren’t solo practices anymore. They can’t just schedule 30 min per patient and see 16 ppl a day. They work for health systems that are corporate businesses that require them to schedule 3-4 patients/hr so naturally they run behind.

          And yes I guess the dr. should have been bowing down to cbackson the biglaw partner . . . .

          • cbackson

            Take me out of the equation. Should an hourly worker be just so grateful to have the attention of the big fancy doctor that she shouldn’t mind losing multiple hours of wages?

        • Doctor'sDaughter

          First appointment of the day running late is one issue, but the pressure from insuarnce comapnies to spend as little time as possible with patients is *real.* It’s the reason my dad closed his independent practice (it was barely profitable to provide quality care/spend adequate time with his patients) and it’s the reason why doctors are fleeing family practice/primary care in droves.

      • Anonymous

        I think you’re being absurd cbackson. I expect to wait a half hour and will wait an hour. And when I have to leave and reschedule I try not to be a self righteous brat about it. I appreciate them squeezing me in when I am sick.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      30 minutes is annoying, but I usually wait about an hour. I go to a bunch of specialty clinics that are always running half an hour to forty five minutes late, though, so I’m somewhat used to scheduling 2+ hours for a 45 minute appointment just in case.

    • Anon

      45 min to an hr for a doctor I know and really like/trust; and/or for a specialist. But then I grew up with a fabulous dr who spent so much time with everyone that the wait was easily 1 hr each time – so maybe I’m too patient about this?

    • Anon

      No, you are not crazy. Only you can decide if waiting for your doctor is worthwhile. But in this day and age, it may be a little harsh and unrealistic because of the demands of healthcare.

      I regularly wait 30 minutes at least for my doc. She is excellent, addresses every concern, and usually says a quick “sorry for the delay” when she comes in. And I’m healthy. Thank god. Give my friend with breast cancer a few extra minutes. I know when I finally am brave enough to share my mental health issues, I’ll get mine.

      But that’s nothing. You are obviously healthy, not taking care of sick family. You are lucky! While my mother was alive, we regularly waited HOURS for her oncologist. And this is in a major city, world famous medical school, and an excellent world class doctor. He wasn’t on the Internet, eating bonbons, I assure you…..

      Maybe your doc is an a-hole and was just on the Internet, eating bonbons and that’s why she was late. Does that sound like her? If so, switch doctors. Probably not though. Did you ask why people were being taken in before you?

      Probably, she got in to clinic and there was an urgent patient issue from overnight, urgent email or phone call requiring doctor input or approval, hospital note she had to write so patient could get care that day etc… There are literally dozens of things and once the patients start it is even harder to find time to do these time sensitive things. Or maybe her child got sick that morning, or maybe she’s under the weather, or traffic etc… All the normal life stuff that someone on a typical job might have flexibility to accommodate, but a doctor with patients does not. Or maybe she had a hospital admission the night before and had to drive across town at 7:30am to see that patient before getting to clinic.

      So for a once a year, physical exam, that your doctor will lose money on, when you are fortunate to be healthy…. maybe you can deal with it?

      I’ve waited longer for my favorite hairdresser…. With zero complaints from me!!!!!

    • anon

      I’m a physician and it sounds to me like their front-desk staff screwed up if patients scheduled after you were seen before you–you’re not crazy!

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