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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Carla Ponte Skirt

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A woman wearing a black top, black belt, black ankle boots, and navy skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When I used public transportation for commuting to work, I always preferred skirts to pants on snowy days. My thinking was that wearing tights was much easier than trying to stuff pants into my snow boots, and if I got wet and cold, it was much easier to keep a spare set of black tights in my desk than a whole set of pants. I commute by car now, but I still like wearing a skirt and cozy tights on wet, slushy days.

This skirt from Universal Standard would look great with a comfy sweater and some tall boots this winter. It comes in six colors, but I really like this deep teal.

The skirt is $98 at Universal Standard and comes in sizes equivalent to 00-40. 

Sales of note for 2/6:

263 Comments

  1. Yesterday’s question about a robotic vacuum sent me down a rabbit hole, and I’m now coming back for real life experience with the combination vacuum and mops. My main floor is all hardwood, with several large area rugs. I would love nothing more than an automatic mop that would safely clean those hardwood floors, and I’ve read some have low moisture settings that are intended for these types of surfaces. My question: if you use one of these devices on a hardwood floor, does it leave a lot of moisture? And, has anyone found one that uses any kind of drying feature to remove the moisture left by mopping?

    1. My parents have a Hoover brand one and don’t use the mop function. It’s pretty inconsistent and sometimes spills. I’d be nervous if I had nice hardwood floors.

    2. I have a bObsweep version and only use it for the vacuum function. I find that adjusting the settings and setting everything up is more trouble than doing a quick wipe-down the old fashioned way. It’s all too easy to quickly run a spray mop over the hardwood floors.

    3. No hardwood here, but I’m the person who recommended Narwhal yesterday. I have a toddler, so the robot mop/vacuum is invaluable. Probably wouldn’t be if I didn’t have a little kid.

    4. I have the Mova P10 Ultra. It mops my hardwoods without too much moisture at all. I prefer to use it without detergent which works just fine. I did a lot of research before buying and have been very happy with it. I run it almost every day on our main floor. I do like to be home to monitor it with half an ear because sometimes it’ll eat something (salt granules lately getting tracked inside) and make grinding noises, but even if I can’t get to it there has never been any damage to my floors. Great for ongoing maintenance, definitely needs to be supplemented with occassional deep cleans. 5 stars, would recommend!

  2. I hate, hate, hate winter. I live in the mid Atlantic so it’s not even a super severe winter.

    I hate everything about it. I mostly hate the cold, but I also vastly prefer other seasons’ activities, fashion, food, everything!

    I know theres no bad weather, only insufficient clothing. I’ve invested in the good gear. I try to lean into winter hobbies: I ski approx 1x a week, I do enjoy the added challenge of a winter trail run. But, not as much as I love rowing or summer trail running!

    I have a SAD lamp, I take vitamin D, and I get outside at least once a day (even if only for 1 lap of the block). I lean into soup season. I still workout, eat well, hydrate, socialize, and get my sleep. I just hate the cold and gray.

    A short trip to “thaw out” isn’t feasible this year. Moving is also not on the table.

    Any other tips on surviving winter?

    1. Of course there’s bad weather, not just insufficient clothing! I hate heat the way you hate winter. I basically hibernate indoors in the AC from July – mid-September.

      Once you’ve done all the practical things, the way you’re doing, you’re left with actively managing your own viewpoints, thoughts, and emotions. You can work on increasing your ability to tolerate the emotional discomfort. You can work on increasing gratefulness. You can work on not nurturing and focusing on thought patterns of “I hate this I hate this I hate this I hate this.” You can even draw on advice given to people who need to live with other conditions that they would never choose but which nonetheless are part of their lives (e.g., chronic pain, care-giving, etc.)

      1. This is good advice. Also? Current perspective. Protesters in Minneapolis and Kiev are freezing too. Can you cultivate gratitude that you are safe, warm, and comfortable and that when you are cold, it’s by choice?

      2. Agree with this advice. Though as a fellow summer hater, the fact that it’s much harder to dress sufficiently for heat is clearly why summer is worse than winter! You can only remove so many clothes…

      3. I have noticed that it’s easier for some people to sit with discomfort, and others compound their discomfort by feeling bad about the discomfort. What if you stopped trying to end winter and just accepted that you hate it and it’s okay that you hate it? That would free you from the mental prison of trying to end a circumstance that is outside your control, and probably make you feel less tormented.

      4. This is great advice. I also feel this way about summer and agree that managing your emotions is the most important thing you can do in your least favorite season. It’s not about finding the right clothes and activities, past a certain point. It’s about putting it out of your mind so that unhappiness doesn’t choke out the light.

    2. I like heavy metal. Let the anger power you through. That and saunas must be how they get by in nothern climes.

      1. Second vote for saunas – if you can tie a sauna or hot-tub to personal thermo-cycling, it can do wonders for your mood, health, and comfort.

          1. Where I am, there are multiple sauna businesses opening up that offer infrared sauna on a per use, or membership basis. Check them out – many gyms are installing as well.

            Also – can you plan long weekends away in a sunnier climate?

          2. Has anyone done one of those infrared sauna places? I’d prefer traditional but there isn’t really a good option by me and they just opened a ‘biohacking’ spa with suites where you can do infrared sauna and cold plunge. It seems ridiculous but I love a sauna and can’t seem to get warm!

          3. have you done a look at gyms or wellness spots nearby? Lots of places have saunas whether the normal kind or infared. When i lived in chicago, I would buy a pass for 10 or so each winter.

          4. If you have a bathtub, one of my favorite Winter treats is to run a space heater in the bathroom for an hour so it’s toasty, then soak in a hot bath. So nice to emerge from the tub into a warmed room to do a gratuitously long skincare routine while letting a coating of body lotion sink in. Then put on my “cozy suit” and retreat to the sofa. Bliss.

          5. I did an infrared sauna. I’m a woman of a certain age who lives in a warm climate. It reminded me too much of a heat flash and I decided it’s not for me. But if I has to move back the Midwest, it would be part of my winter survival strategy.

    3. I think there’s something to be said for just accepting that things suck right now. But it will get better.

      It sounds like you already have a lot of healthy coping mechanisms. How about some treats? Lol. I bought matching sweats from Gap and they are sooo soft. I also just ordered some fancy loose leaf tea. On the entertainment front, I’m not much of a TV person, but I started watching Hacks and am treating myself to an episode every night around 9 PM, when I am usually getting ready for bed.

      Little things help but yeah it sucks! I am actually a fan of winter but endless days stuck inside because of the cold and snow are starting to get to me too.

    4. I hate soup because it makes me feel like a Charles Dickens waif trying to survive the bitter winter (and I live in the upper midwest, so I don’t need reminders). It’s not a cozy, heartwarming thing I look forward to, it’s just sad gruel. I do love stews, and casseroles, and chili. I make no sense.

      That said, find things you do love and lean into them. Do you actually enjoy skiing and winter trail running? I don’t. I vastly prefer a swim in a heated lap pool or an indoor HIIT class, or a ride on a stationary bike with my headphones cranked because I don’t have to worry about listening for cars like I do outdoors.

      I like having the right gear for what I need to do, but I don’t need to be outside freezing. I can be comfortable and warm indoors tending my houseplants in my slippers or curling up under a blanket with a good book next to a cozy fire. I don’t get a medal for pretending a bright light bulb is real sunshine. I don’t get an endorphin rush from falling on ice while trying to do my post-run stretches in a frozen parking lot. You really can just dislike winter and stop trying to pretend its your fave. I’m much happier just acknowledging I don’t enjoy leaning into the wintery stuff.

      1. I agree with this. I’m one of those people who lives in the frozen north and loves winter and hates summer, but whether it’s winter or summer, I do things I like and avoid doing things I hate! I go outside when the weather is reasonable (early the morning in the summer, on beautiful 10 degree days in the winter), I do inside things when it’s -20 or disgustingly humid. Also not much of a soup fan, but I bake a lot, and make pizza, roasted vegetables, and anything else that needs the oven or a long time on the stove.

        And if it really makes you THAT miserable, you should consider moving. I couldn’t stand the heat and humidity in the SEUS and am a million times happier living somewhere else. There are lots of places with different variations of weather in this country that could be a better fit, especially if you’re more sensitive to light than cold.. Where I live now gets quite cold, but it’s sunny a lot of the time, not gray.

      2. This. I grew up in northern New England and have always hated winter and loved summer. I am cold (even inside, in multiple layers) from late October to April. But I love warm and hot weather. I will happily be outside in the heat. Snow is beautiful – through a window in a warm house, with a heating blanket. All that said, I don’t suffer with SAD. I just hate winter.

        1. where do you live now? i was never a winter lover growing up in the northeast, but now i live in Houston and summer here is miserable, especially since it lasts for ~6 months of the year. Like in November it can still be high 80s and super humid making it feel like 90+

        2. Have you seen the memes of people shoveling snow in the northeast chanting ‘we don’t have earthquakes, we don’t have tornados, we don’t have alligators’? I feel that so hard in the current sub-zero MA weather.
          Also I highly recommend finding a wellness place for a sauna/spa session. That whole body warm/floating/cozy feeling in February usually takes me through March. And then in March I force myself to look for the first green shoots/plants and cheer on spring.

      3. Off topic, but this is why I love Asian soups like ramen, pho, etc. especially with some spice/heat. It doesn’t look or taste anything like the soup lines from the Depression.

        1. I’m the one who hates winter soup, and no amount of added veggies will make up for the fact that it’s all floating around in a vat of watery broth. Give me pho or ramen in summer, but not in winter.

    5. I hate it too. Tbh, I don’t try to make the best of it. I hate the cold, I hate being outside. I stay inside and wait it out.

    6. I struggle with winter for a lot of the same reasons and I’m also in the mid-Atlantic. I’m trying to embrace this season as a type of forced rest, like hibernation. I’m outside and busy from spring to fall so I’m just reminding myself that slowing down now is natural and probably good for me. I’m also trying to appreciate that I’m lucky to have this period that can be slower. I admit though that I could really use some sunshine and flowers right now. But January and February are usually the worst of it so we’re already half way through!

      1. I spent several years in New England and now live in the Mid-Atlantic. Winters here are SO much worse. When it’s actually cold enough to make snow, or there is real snow, on the crummy ski hill 2 hours away, you can’t get there because the roads are impassable. When you can get there, the snow is inevitably an icy mess. Ice storms can knock out power and water for days on end. The rest of the time it’s just cold, but without any of the fun winter activities that rely on snow.

        When I lived in suburban MA, I could be on the mountain within 45 minutes and could rely on decently skiable natural or manufactured snow all season. There was a cross-country ski track in town. I could sled or snowshoe right outside my back door. Roads were reliably cleared of snow, and it was cold enough that ice storms weren’t really a concern.

        1. I live about 45 mins from a ski hill. It’s not great (icy, definitely hill not mountain!) but it does the job. That’s why I go weekly!

    7. Spend a week in the sunshine on a beach every winter.

      Schedule for February. It helps a lot.

        1. I’d book a half day or an hour or two at a sauna/spa. That is usually my next best thing to a sunny locale.

    8. Is it more “I’m longing for summer because something about winter is making me actively miserable” or more “I’m long for summer because I like summer things better/I don’t have the summer things I really really enjoy like rowing/trail running/whatever”?

      IMO those are different things with different solutions – one targeted towards “fix the cause of the misery”, and one maybe you lean into eg. planning next summer’s adventure? Or just acknowledging that part of having a “favorite” (season, or anything else) is that you won’t like everything else as much. You shouldn’t be miserable though!

    9. I once read that it’s easier to think about seasons as six-week microseasons rather than 12-week chunks. I find that helps me.

      We are in the worst part of winter (IMO) right now – the days are getting longer but not long enough, plus it’s bitterly cold. There are no fun holidays on the horizon, and spring break is a long time away. In January/early February, I take these 6 weeks to focus on recharging myself. I lean into more sleep, cozy foods, indoor games, reconnecting with friends, creative pursuits. Exercise moves indoors as much as possible. It’s so different from my norm that it feels like a brain break, and I’m ready for my regular routine by mid-February.

    10. Are you downhill or XC skiing? I find downhill is a much bigger dopamine hit and thrill, so worth trying if you don’t already.

        1. Could you try a master’s ski team, a women’s clinic, or some other kind of higher-intensity + social option? Is there a skill you haven’t mastered yet (carving, jumps, bumps) that you could make it a goal to do this year? Goals and purpose can help a ton.

    11. I’ve done the things that you have done to make things slightly better, then embraced that I dislike it. We are not obligated to like or enjoy everything!

      Traveling is not in the cards for you this year, but you can make it a budget/time priority for next year. I take two hot trips each winter now. There is no coping mechanism that is good as hot sun to my bare skin all day!

    12. Surviving anything is tied to how you think about it. If you actively think you hate it, it will be miserable. If you instead reframe and think of ways you could enjoy it, you will. I like having seasonal things for every season to look forward to – from decorating the house with little touches, to blankets that come out for winter and linen sheets for summer, etc. It’s all in your mind to control how you feel.

      1. No I am allowed to legitimately be miserable without it being all in my head and I just need to change my outlook.

        1. I disagree. At the point where you are objectively comfortable and not in danger, unlike people freezing on the streets, it literally is all about mindset. You’re allowed to not like it but you won’t benefit yourself by leaning into negativity. You should also consider a can-do mindset for moving or taking a vacation.

        2. Of course you are. But I’m assuming you’re not OP? She asked how to not be miserable, and she either can’t or doesn’t want to change anything about her circumstances, so changing her outlook is probably the best option in that scenario. You have to change something or nothing will change.

        3. Of course you are entitled to hate winter! But you can choose to spend all your time perseverating about how much you hate it, or you can acknowledge that winter is bleh and then go on with your life.

        4. So what do you want? Move or stop complaining and learn to deal using the great advice on this thread. Many (most?) of us have much more serious things to be miserable about.

        5. You can be allowed to do a lot of things but that doesn’t mean it’s doing you any favors. I’m allowed to eat all the cake I want, doesn’t make it healthy. Having a bad attitude is allowed but it’s not going to do anything to improve your situation.

    13. Solidarity my friend. Other than the opportunity to wear cashmere sweaters, I too absolutely hate winter. I am in the mid-south and start fantasizing about moving way down south about this time every year. Being too hot, even very hot, makes me just physically uncomfortable. But being cold is its own special misery where I’m concerned. For me it’s somehow more than physical discomfort.

      1. Same here. SAD hit me like a ton of bricks and I am perpetually cold even if indoor temperatures are reasonable. I am just trying to get through in one piece until mid-February when the longer days will start improving my mood. I was considering antidepressants but at this point I am afraid I am too late for this year. Ugh!

    14. Not a winter specific suggestion – I leaned into my “grandma was right about a lot of things,” made a puzzle table, and I started doing a puzzle in the morning instead of scrolling online. It has made me hate everything a lot less.

      1. I love my grandma hobbies! I do them year round, but do really lean into them in the winter.

    15. Have you read the book “How to Winter” by Kari Leibowitz? It is literally about this very situation. The author shared your complete hatred of winter but was curious why people who live in Nordic countries are consistently less depressed than in similarly resourced countries at warmer latitudes. She moves above the Arctic Circle to study this question, and her book details her findings. It has helped me make peace with living in the dark, gray PNW, and I no longer roll my eyes when my Swedish neighbors get super-excited for ski season.

      1. I came here to recommend this! I actually never read the book, just some articles by her/about her, and I deliberately changed my outlook about a decade ago. It was moderately effective at treating my SAD the first year, and 100% effective after that. When I tell people this I feel a little nutty; it doesn’t seem real or possible. But adopting a winter mindset fundamentally changed my experience of winter.

    16. This thread made me chuckle. Definitely never thought so much about soup (which I had no idea was polarizing). Hot yoga works for me but the best is 2-3 preplanned long weekends to sun(maybe next year).

  3. I feel like I dressed like Little Women in high school in the snowy NEUS: long skirt (maybe even a kilt b/c you can’t have too much wool in the winter), tights, a slip (b/c static), and boots. Mine were old-school LL Bean Duck Boots since snow was fine but slush wasn’t. It wasn’t until I was an adult with a job that I got cool tall leather boots (La Canadiennes) and I recently ventured into suede but I am still very nervous.

    Unrelated: social media is feeding me bathing suits that come with a cute long flowy skirt shilled by real women who appear to be 35+ and not a size 2; huzzah! But if it’s $50, I just need to keep scrolling, yes? Nothing that good can be that inexpensive unless it was made by the nimble little fingers of actual children.

    1. Plenty of stuff that costs $$$ has equally unethical supply chains if that’s a real concern for you. A different question may be whether the advertised item is the same as what they’re selling. Social media ads often show a higher quality garment that merely symbolically represents what’s really being sold.

    2. I recently gave into impulses to buy stuff advertised to me heavily on SM. Twice now, the items didn’t ever arrive and I had to dispute through my credit card. Earlier, I succumbed to a social media marketed swimsuit and, while it did eventually arrive, it was was terrible quality and there’s no way that it was the same item that was being modeled in the cute ads.
      My advice is to take the style inspiration from the posts, search for reviews of the business advertising, and if they’re anything other than glowing unpaid reviews, go look for something in that style you can find from a real business that exists outside of social media.

    3. Why are there posts every day about randomly seeing some brand no one has heard of on social media and wondering instantly whether you should buy something? Is the advertising truly that effective on you?

      1. This is what I want to know. When I see random social media ads, I assume it’s junk I never would want. Who are these people who actually want to buy it?

        1. But sometimes it’s not junk and I think that’s what people are trying to figure out! I have seen some brands through social media marketing that I wasn’t familiar with and that I’ve since seen people recommending here as good quality, and others that people have clearly indicated are junk. Sometimes you can tell from the ad which it’s going to be and sometimes you can’t.

          1. But are these people really just willing to buy ANYTHING that’s shown to them? The posts here are rarely “I’ve been looking for x and saw an ad,” more like “huh this random item floated by in my feed. Is this something I should buy?” So weird to me.

          2. Honestly, I think most of those posts are actually Ads / influencers trying to push those brands on this s1te. I would never buy something based on an Ad from a random brand.

        2. Eh, not every one is a miss. I first heard about Me & Em on SM, and am now a devoted and very happy fan. I came here to ask about their shoes when those were introduced, got a very enthusiastic thumbs up, and am currently wearing my first pair – but not my last.

        3. Yes. I am that person. I’ve had to put away social media totally for the past month because it is too expensive for me to be marketed to so consistently. And also everything I’ve gotten has been good quality, so whatever. I’m just tired of being sold to.

      2. Why would they advertise at all if it didn’t work this way for enough people to make it worth it?

          1. Really there should be more laws and enforcement. I’d be 100% fine with a law against showing a different product to illustrate what’s really being sold. Same for all kinds of other scams (I truly hate watching older people in my life become less savvy to scams exactly as they become more targeted).

          2. Well Trump has dismantled the Consumer’s Financial Protection Bureau so not much help there.

          3. It’s bad that Trump is killing the CFB for many reasons, but this is not one of them. False advertising is a federal trade commission and DOJ thing, not a CFB thing.

      4. For me, from COVID WFH (formerly went to a gym by work) and menopause weight / shape gain, I pay a lot of attention to any one who is a size 10+ person who isn’t 20 having a fashion account, especially if it is workwear. I am that desperate for clothes that work for my new body. I’m not in a pencil skirt anymore (not that they are a thing now). But I don’t want to wear a sack. I want pants that fit and flatter. So when someone shows something that might fit my needs, I pay attention. But I still question.

      5. Yes, the advertising is truly that effective. Not all of it, of course, and my personal kryptonite is not brands I’ve never heard of but brands I have heard of but that always look terrible on me. Tuckernuck, for instance. I aspire to be a Tuckernuck-wearer, but I’ve returned every single thing I’ve ever ordered from them. And, yet, hope springs eternal, and they’ll show me an ad with what is, objectively, a lovely dress. And I’ll order it, try it on with hope in my heart–THIS is going to be the one! And, once again, I look ridiculous. Will I learn? Probably not. Because once in a while, I order something that keeps popping up in my ads, and it’ll be great. Just not THEIR ads.

        3. Ha. I also heard of Tuckernuck through SM ads and started buying. I love it though and get complimented so much more on a Tuckernuck item than anything else in my closet. I return about 25% of the items I’ve ordered but honestly I return just as much, if not more, at Nordstrom. I also tailor about 25% of the items I keep. Again, not unusual given than I have to order a larger size for size H chest. I stick to dresses and tops and have never tried their pants or shoes. Depending on what you’ve been ordering, maybe giving tailoring a shot would help it fit?

    4. I kind of miss the days of pencil skirts. I had 3-4 colorful wool (lined!) pencil skirts from Jcrew that I paired with merino sweaters, thick tights, and knee high boots. I looked cute, it was warm, and tights/boots were so much easier to clean the salt/slush off of vs. wool pants.
      Regarding cheap bathing suits – don’t, it isn’t worth it. I’d look at La Blanca or Lands End.

      1. I miss the days of easily purchasing lined wool clothing. My favorite pairs of flannel wool trousers, lined, from BR circa 2011 have officially bit the dust. It’s pretty clear that the area I sit upon is much more worn than the rest of the pants.

        I’m size 0P and generally much smaller in length and girth than most standard brands. Not sure I have much in the way of options other than made to measure tailoring, which seems like overkill.

      2. Cheap bathing suits are 100% not worth it. I spent an eye-watering amount on a suit last summer, more than I ever have in my life. Well, what do you know. It is comfortable, it fits great, and I literally did not think about my suit the entire time. I was able to focus on, you know, having fun. As a mid-40s woman, that is priceless. The cheap stuff that used to work fine just doesn’t anymore.

          1. Jantzen! Some of the prints are a bit much, others are quite nice. And there are solid color options.

        2. Yes, this is the annoying part of my mid-40’s body. I don’t have the ability to wear cheap, unlined, fast-fashion anymore. I need real fibers, thicker material, and clever tailoring.

    5. Keep scrolling yes, the product will be trash and produced in unethical ways for both the humans and environment

    6. Think of it this way: when was the last time anyone in your life actually responded to a compliment with “Thanks! I saw a link on Instagram to this brand I had never heard of before and bought it.” Never, right?

      1. Strong disagree. If you know moderately young people, this is a frequent way they find things. Even among moderately old people (my demographic), this is becoming an increasingly popular way of being exposed to things. Just because the first time you saw it was on the internet doesn’t make it bad.

        1. Agree. I commented above that I’ve had to put away social media because it’s too expensive, but the algorithm is spot on and I’ve found lovely brands that are new to me, but not “new”. I haven’t purchased anything from Jcrew (my old standby) in over 2 years because other brands I’ve discovered are just better for my current life.

        2. also strongly disagree. lots of younger folks get their cute items from tiktok shop or other social media based ads. Partake or not, but you can’t deny that it’s a factor.

          1. I just haven’t met younger folks who wear cute items in real life. And from what I understand, the college aged girls I know are not into looking cute right now because they don’t dress for the male gaze

  4. Which of the white strips work and aren’t terribly painful? Or should I go for one of the tray solutions? Thanks!

  5. I’d like to take a week-long vacation in June for a milestone birthday this year. It will be just me and my boyfriend. Ideally it would be somewhere with both hiking/nature and a town or city nearby to explore. I’m open to staying in the United States or going abroad but no further than a 6-7ish hour flight from the east coast. Any suggestions?

    1. a lot of the U.S. ski towns are fun to visit in the summer and have nature/cute towns- vail, aspen, park city, jackson hole, etc.

    2. Price point? Because at least for me, the following have fit the bill if $$: Provence, France; Siena, Lake Como and other portions of Italy; and Croatia (islands + Split and Plitvice Lakes NP). Closer to home and more reasonable price point: Asheville, Mackinac Island, Crater Lake, Vail/Aspen/Breck (all lovely in summer with hiking and biking).

    3. Where are you leaving from? Like, there’s a nonstop from PHL to Nice (Riviera towns, ~8 hr flight) and to Naples (9 hr flight, Amalfi) – mix of food, scenery, and spectacular walks / hikes. I think United flies nonstop to Sicily seasonally…

    4. Maybe Banff/Lake Louise in Canada? It’s absolutely gorgeous, beautiful hiking and nature, and the town of Banff is cute.

      2. Lake Louise is one of the prettiest natural sites I’ve seen, and I’m decently traveled. it is gorgeous there.

        1. I also love the vibes of staying at the Fairmont at Lake Louise. It is the most unpretentious luxury hotel since everyone is there to hike but also like the finer things. If you like to ride, there is so much to explore on trail rides there. They have lots of longer rides that are more challenging and with horses that are not just bored from doing the same 45 minute lap every day.

      3. LOVE Banff. OP, if you want to splurge and it’s not too late, there is a lodge at Moraine Lake (similar to Lake Louise but even better, IMO) with cabins that are very nice, right on the lake (meaning you don’t have to take a shuttle or bike in), which is excellent for access to the lake and nearby hikes. You could do that for a night or two and stay in Banff the remainder.

        Jackson Hole could also be fun. Grand Teton National Park is wonderful, but depending on when in June you go, may still have snow at higher elevation hikes if that’s a concern (same for Banff, TBH).

      4. Another vote for Banff. Although there’s still snow on some of the higher elevation hikes into July. We ran the Banff marathon a few years ago at the end of June and hiked for a week – stayed at cabins on the Bow River Pkwy. Our favorite vacation ever.

    5. I’d do the Sonoma coast and head up to Mendocino and San Francisco for the city part. Plenty of gorgeous nature along the coast and you need to fly into SFO anyway.

    6. Jackson Hole is lovely in the summer. I wish we’d spent more time at the Tetons, it’s such an underrated park.

    7. Italy is always the answer for me, but it depends on what you like, what your budget is and what nonstop flight options you have from your home airport.

      1. Not to thread jack but….can you give me all of your Santa Fe recs? Heading there on spring break!

    9. You have some good suggestions already, but adding a plug for Ireland which is an easy flight, good June weather, not too pricey and is lovely.

    11. Reykjavik isn’t the most exciting town (although they do have some great restaurants and bars), but you can’t beat Iceland for hiking and nature.

    12. If you are staying in the U.S., go to the Oregon coast! Beautiful, lots of small sea towns to explore, tons of hiking & nature.

  6. I’m doing a trip later this year with some childhood friends to celebrate different milestones in our lives. I’d like to come up with some questions to help us reflect on where we are now vs who we were as kids/teens, a mix of serious and fun. Help me develop the list!

    For example, so far my list includes:
    – What’s something your parent(s) did that you didn’t appreciate in the moment but do now?
    – Which former romantic partner is the path not taken?
    – What was a time as a kid that you remember laughing uncontrollably?
    – What song takes you back to a specific moment in time?

    1. What about your life now would amaze your younger self because you never would have expected it? Conversely, what did your younger self expect your adult life to include that it doesn’t?

      1. Great question! Related question: and would you wear some version of it now and if so, what would it be.

    3. What do you do or use because your mother did it/used it, but that you swore you would never do or have? (Mine is use iron skillets.)
      What is a long-held lifestyle goal that you’ve met? (I wanted backyard chickens for 20+ years, and now I have them.)

    4. What did you believe you “knew” about yourself then that turned out to be way off-base?

    5. Which people were we friends with as kids who we didn’t keep up with but you still wonder, what happened to so and so?

    6. I’d change the last one to “what song reminds you of prom (or graduation or whatever)?” I think it’s more fun if everyone is talking about the same event!

    8. Not saying you should buy a product for this, but the “Best Self Conversation Cards” have been really helpful – I bought the Little Kids version so that my kids would open up and have real conversations with adults in their lives, and the cards are surprisingly intimate to answer.

    9. The Delve deck is great for this. Three levels of depth/intensity of questions to discuss with just two or a whole group (or as journal prompt).

    10. What were you nervous about/scared about when you were in your teens and how did it turn out?

  7. My daughter is considering a NYC yacht charter for her wedding. I’d like to hear your recommendations for charter companies, pros and cons, tips, etc. Thanks!

    1. Cons- guest seasickness and the fact that if someone is at all late, they will miss the whole event.

      1. And they can’t leave if they feel sick or something comes up. This doesn’t sound appealing at all!

      2. Like a circle line or going out further? I get really motion sick and seasick and a circle-line type trip has never bothered me. The Hudson is an actual river. The East RIver is not a river proper but a tidal estuary. Both are pretty calm. Open water is more problematic (for me).

        1. I attended a fancy networking event on one of the cruises on the Hudson that kind of loops around near the Statue of Liberty, and there were people who were really uncomfortable – like putting chairs together to lay down. The organizer apologized afterward and said ‘lesson learned.’

      4. Seasickness… on the Hudson River? It’s not going on open ocean, so I can’t really imagine seasickness being a big concern.

        1. Agree (as an otherwise carsick and seasick person). People who are local likely know if they can handle this because at some point we all take the ferry or a circle line tour with OOT guests.

        2. I commented above, but it was a choppy day and the people who were susceptible got seasick while the boat was tied up at the dock – the yawing around with no forward movement during boarding was bad.

        3. HA! This must be someone who does not get seasick. I can get motion sickness putting the darn laundry away. Trust me, the Hudson is enough to do many people in.

          1. Are you one of the people from yesterday whose physician won’t work up or treat motion sickness for some reason?

          2. Isn’t the treatment just to know yourself and not put yourself in situations where you’ll get nauseous? Not everything requires medication.

          3. Yeah, I’m not making a $$$ doctor’s appointment, exposing myself to illness in the waiting room, and then doping myself up just to go to a wedding on a boat.

          4. I’m not one of them, thankfully. I have a Meclizine prescription that does a fair job. But to the others – no, not all motion sickness is avoidable. Some folks are so sensitive, it can happen while walking on a flat surface.

          5. You can choose to suffer, choose to limit your life, choose to medicate for relief in special situations, or choose to get work up for one of the minor health issues that can cause motion sickness as a symptom (which can be something as simple as a deficiency that’s a good idea to address for general health outcomes anyway). But no, it’s not some kind of inherent personal characteristic that we have to just accept about ourselves.

          2. I’m the person who made the comment and I have a husband very prone to seasickness and the body of water definitely matters. He gets seasick all the time on the ocean but never in a lake or river to my knowledge.

      5. +1. I have done high end yachts/cruises for work events and after the second time I was miserably seasick in ‘calm’ waters I vowed never again. What people aren’t considering is the wake that the massive cruise ships create on the NJ side of Manhattan. Even if you stay on the Brooklyn side of the river there is still a fair amount of traffic, the wind gets crazy, and your guests have no way to leave early if they need to (childcare, eldercare, long trip back home, etc.).

    2. Our rector’s daughter did that when she (now a doctor) got married and I know nothing else but that it was lovely. It may matter where the boat leaves from (Hoboken vs Manhattan vs Brooklyn). We are NJ-side people.

    3. I have been to parties on these and yes, it’s frustrating not to be able to leave and/or if the weather is not great. There are lots of land-based places with nice views! Bargemusic and others!

    4. One of my friends did this in Boston. She had a church ceremony and then everyone drove to the cruise.

      If you do it that way, it’s hard for people to be late. The planning is easy: the ship takes care of most of the work (tables, linens, setup, cleanup).

      It can dock for the last hour or so, allowing people to get off early if they need to.

      1. For real? Do these people not take trips on planes? I suspect that the few who really can’t emotionally deal with this much of a commitment will self-select out. I don’t think it’s right to plan as if that will be the bulk of reactions though.

        1. A wedding is not a plane trip. People always leave weddings at different points during the evening.

          1. +1. It is totally normal for some people to leave a wedding at 11pm and some people to want to stay until 2am.

        2. Agreed. I hate this societal shift towards enabling opt-outs of commitments at all times.

          1. A commitment to attend a wedding is not a commitment to stay at the wedding until the host says you can leave.

          3. It has nothing to do with opting out of committments. I might want to leave a wedding at 10pm though, and what if the yacht doesn’t dock until midnight???

          4. What I hate is the societal shift away from considerate hosting and towards self-centered demands and displays.

        3. What? Why would you want to get off a plane early? At a typical 5pm-midnight wedding people commonly start trickling out by 9.

          1. Is there a single reason why a person might want to leave a wedding early that wouldn’t also apply to wanting to leave a plane early?

          3. You have to stay on the plane long enough to get to your destination. Normally you don’t have to stay at a wedding until someone else says it’s done.

          4. I’d love to leave my flight whenever I’d like to. Some modes of transportation allow that while others do not, just like some wedding venues allow that while others do not. In both cases, people agree in advance and plan accordingly! I would bet that the yachts do a far better job of getting everyone back on time.

      2. This is a serious con. I went to a wedding at Long Island country club where the only available transportation was buses provided by the hosts. We had to get on the bus at 3 PM in Manhattan for a 5:30 wedding and the first bus back didn’t leave the wedding until 10. And they were only sending a mini bus at that point, expecting most people to stay for an after party that didn’t end until after midnight. They did end up sending a second bus bad at 10 due to demand but still, it was bad planning.

        1. I feel like for all events, if you have unique needs or can’t just roll with it / pretend you are 20 again, you need to do your own planning and most people are just fine with you looking after your needs. People do desintination weddings as whole cruises (so a plane trip + days) or BIG trips, so several hours seems no different from other weddings or events. I suspect that even for locals who don’t live in NYC proper, many will get a hotel room and stay over, especially if they are in the outer suburbs.

          2. I think this is the way. If what’s important to you about your wedding is having as many of the people you want there to be there, you should optimize for inclusivity – which means things like being family/small-child friendly, local, flexible on timing, etc – and probably a yacht charter isn’t it, for All The Reasons already raised in this thread (unless of course, you are planning a very small wedding where you know the invitees well enough to know/ask if this is something they would do).

            *For me*, having my community around me is really important to the concept of the wedding, and I’d be willing to sacrifice almost anything else to achieve that

            But there’s no reason maximal attendance has to be your goal! If something else about the yacht cruise is appealing to you, go for it! And don’t be offended if people need to opt themselves out, same as if you were planning a destination wedding, or a 9pm Tuesday wedding, or a childfree wedding in tuxes.

    7. I think people have covered the cons, but I’ve been a couple of events on boats, and as someone who is not prone to seasickness, understands how to get myself to a departure point on time, and is unlikely to have a crisis that would make me want to leave early…I love them! Being out on the water at night and looking at all the lights always feels like such a treat. It’s special and it’s different from something I’d do in my day-to-day. I know not everyone feels that way, and full disclosure I did skip a charter-based event at the last conference I went to because I didn’t want to be trapped on a boat networking for as long as it was going to last…but I’d be thrilled to attend a yacht wedding with people I actually like.

      1. Same. I’ve never attended a wedding on one but I went to a bunch of fraternity and sorority formals on boats in college and I loved it. A work event on a boat sounds unappealing to me, but I don’t like work events in general. I’d love to go to a yacht wedding for a friend.

        1. Same. I went to a formal in college in Norfolk on a boat and it was amazing. We had to take a bus to and from and I didn’t have a car then and it was fine even with that crowd making it on time.

        2. i agree it was fun in college, though drinking + water wasn’t great. If I planned an event on a boat, there would be a monsoon or high winds or something else that would get it canceled – so what is the contingency plan? also, in college, very few people have outside responsibilities. i think this is very guest dependent – do you think you will have many guests who could be pregnant or who have young children, etc. obviously 99.9% of the time nothing happens and no one has to leave a wedding early, but just in case… i would also consider the duration of the event – is it for 2 hours moving around, then fine, vs. 4+ hours might make people feel more antsy

          1. I have young kids and would have no issue attending a yacht wedding. It’s a lot less remote than a real cruise and plenty of people do those. I think this board skews anxious about a lot of things and in real life most people are not going to be that stressed about this. And those who are don’t have to attend.

          3. Sometimes I frame a visit here as “Let’s see what new things people have found to be anxious about today.”

      2. Yeah, I’m one of the people who commented above that this sounds terrible, but there was a time in my life this would have been fun (other than potential seasickness), it’s just not now. Whether this is a good idea or not depends a lot on who will be at the wedding. How many guests have kids, are older, etc? Do you have a plan if grandma feels sick or needs to go to bed early?

        1. Not thinking of elderly relatives is one of the worst things a bridezilla does. My niece purposely did not have enough tables and chairs at her wedding for everyone to sit down for dinner because she wanted to “encourage people to mingle” while holding their plates. We had to scramble to secure one of the few tables so the bride’s 80-year-old grandparents (my ILs), her great-aunt and great-uncle (husband’s aunt and uncle), and the flower girl (my 4-year-old) had a place to sit.

          At her own wedding, this bride’s sister made all her guests, including the elderly people listed above, stand outside in 30-degree weather for half an hour so she and her husband could make their “grand entrance” on an outdoor patio. They literally blocked the doors to the indoor reception area so no one could go inside.

          Do not be like these brides. Or their brother, who did not order enough food for all of his wedding guests.

        2. +1. People who leave before the official end time aren’t all wedding-hating curmudgeons.

          From the couple’s perspective: You’re going to obsess over the weather, and why would you want such a critical factor out of your control? Would the couple still be happy if the entire wedding needs to happen inside? Assume it will be windy and humid. The wind picked up during the end of my wedding portraits (on dry land) and I hate those photos- my hair was a disaster.

      3. I am prone to seasickness and have various other considerations, and this sounds fun to me. It also doesn’t seem like a bigger ask than a drive or a plane ride (yes those come with some guest attrition too, but are pretty common?).

        1. As a guest, me!

          And I had a wedding in a tiny town with very limited options because it was close to family and closer to my in-laws than my current city. I would probably lose guests no matter what. But they were all fed and had chairs. One person was late and missed the wedding, as did a couple who had morning sickness too bad to drive. No wedding will tick all of everyone’s boxes.

    9. It’s been about eight years, but I chartered the Lexington for a big birthday party and was very very happy with it. It was a little nerve-wracking making all the arrangements from 3,000 miles away but it turned out great.

      I am shocked at the comments about seasickness. Nobody at my party, even the one who is notoriously susceptible, got seasick. Trust me when I tell you that everybody had a blast and they are still talking about how great it was.

      1. I personally think a birthday party is very different from a wedding – you’re unlikely to have the same level of variation in guest needs with a birthday and there’s way less obligation to attend.

    10. Honestly, tacky. These come off as attempts to have a nice wedding on the cheap. If the budget is limited or she just doesn’t want to spend a lot, scope it more realistically, consider City Hall and brunch after somewhere.

    11. Thank you for all replies. There are elderly relatives involved, and we thought the boat would be a reasonable option since most of old folks are in NJ which is close to NYC. Also, this is not doing a wedding on the cheap. Some of the yachts we looked at charged $250-$300 pp.

      1. I’m honestly wondering how many of the split opinions about this are just the difference between better and worse companies (insofar as people are even speaking from experience at all)… which is what the original question was about!

  8. A few days ago, there was discussion about how to support Minneapolis during this difficult time. As someone experiencing this first-hand, I want to encourage you to start preparing your own communities. One thing that has been extremely effective is hyperlocal Signal groups. For example, we have a chat this is just for people on my block. We know there’s no ICE agents in it because we have been taking the time to meet our neighbors. It allows us to watch for ICE and care for our vulnerable neighbors. Through this, I’ve been picking up food at a local food pantry for a family who doesn’t feel safe going out.

    What does this have to do with you? Start making this connections now. Meet your neighbors. Ask if they need help with things. Download signal and make a neighborhood group chat. For those of you impacted by the storm, this is a great reason to check in on your neighbors. If you establish these networks now, you will be more resilient and prepared when ICE comes to your city.

    1. I have been so impressed with the grassroots organizing and bravery shown by ordinary citizens in Minneapolis. It’s a prime example of how you defeat fascism block by block.

      1. I think they really did not know what they were doing when they picked MPLS. The city has had very strong grassroots neighborhood organizations since 2020. I don’t think my neighborhood could ever come together in the same way because there are too many MAGAs here and everyone else is afraid to reveal themselves or trust anyone.

    3. We have a gmail chain of people who live on our short residential suburban block. Our community is diverse with many biracial families all sorts of races/thnicities. We inform each other when ICE is here (they have been twice) and one neighbor gave out whistles. ICE came to the small church on the corner of my block where my neighbors’ kids go to bilingual pre-school. The parents set up rotations for watching the school and helping protect the kids. ICE also rounded up construction workers who were working on a house around the corner.

    4. You should be building community regardless of the ICE situation. Anonymity and loneliness are major public health threats, especially for older people. And global warming means natural disasters are more likely, and knowing your neighbors in those circumstances matters a lot too.

      I say this because some of your neighbors probably don’t care about ICE in the abstract but would like to improve their community network. So you can do all of the above, and you can personally do it for ICE related reasons, but you will have a broader network built if you don’t make this ICE specific. There is a ton of value to this in general. The people who don’t care about ICE in the abstract probably will care about it if it comes to your neighborhood and you can talk about it then, but you also want them in the network in case there’s a natural disaster or gas leak or whatever else. Community building is most successful when it allows as broad a definition of community as possible.

      1. I don’t think you can build this kind of broad-based community in an area with a lot of MAGAs. The ones near me are weirdly aggressive and impossible to work with even on church projects. Since 2016 they’ve been emboldened in a way that they weren’t before, and they are no longer willing to collaborate for any reason. It’s all about power and posturing.

        1. You can. I have. It does require not engaging in the sort of reductionist stereotyping you’re doing here, though.

          1. Community can be so, so, so much worse than its absence. I truly hate that this country is becoming so unsafe that we may have to destroy our day to day quality of life just to survive.

          2. Could not disagree more, but you’re welcome to isolate yourself to the point of monasticism if that makes your heart sing.

          3. One of the blessings of civilization was always that you don’t have to network with personal connections just to get by.

    5. I live in a city that was occupied by ICE last fall, and I would agree with this advice. The occupation here was brutal, terrifying, and utterly heartbreaking, but the most effective support by far came from the many mutual aid efforts that came into being or quickly ramped up to help. Planning response efforts in advance will pay off enormously if and when your city is targeted. I would also highlight that we can learn so much from observing the experiences and efforts of previously targeted communities—what worked and what did not—and I would encourage us all to pay attention to this now, before a local emergency arises. My heart breaks for those currently enduring this in Minnesota. Sending every good thought your way.

  9. Posted late yesterday, and I figured I’d post again here with some clarifications and amendments to get more thoughts.

    My husband got a job offer (finally!) from an airline so he can move on from being a flight instructor to what he actually wants to do. This is great, but it would be a many hours commute, so we’re planning on moving. I told my boss about the planned move so we could negotiate WFH and I can keep my job, as they will allow it for people who are valuable (which I am) and if it’s non-negotiable. So my boss has been talking with the higher ups to try and work something out. They said they’d be open to a fixed term to finish out the year. Great, but… I just got a positive pregnancy test literally the day my boss offered me this. We’ve been trying for a while, but this is kinda awkward timing to say the least. Commuting would suck for my husband, but it might be the better option than me trying to find a job in a difficult market while pregnant and then having to deal with the whole “don’t qualify for FMLA” thing. And now I am not sure what or when I’m supposed to say anything. Do I really want to get that personal at work? But otherwise I think I’ll come off as cagey or flaky. Ugh, I don’t know.

    1. It sounds like you are WFH but they are only allowing it until the end of the year so you have to quit then if you move? And so what you are asking is whether you should NOT move and keep the job, working in person, so you can get maternity leave?

      1. I am currently in-office, I brought up my move to see if they would be willing to let me work remote so I could keep my job after I moved. They are, but only until the end of the year (when some important projects wrap up). I’m worried that me saying “I’m moving, let me WFH if you want to keep me” to “nevermind, pretend I never said anything” without an explanation is going to look bad. Although I presume they’d figure it out when I do eventually disclose, assuming it sticks.

        1. But you ARE moving and leaving the job, aren’t you? It’s just that you want a guaranteed paid maternity leave? So at some point next year, you’re moving and therefore leaving the job? Or are you thinking of staying in your current location past maternity leave, and not making any changes at all to your job?

          1. Honestly, if this sticks I’d prefer to not move until next year. Plenty of pilots commute for work, just turns a 3 day trip into a 4 or 5 day trip. Not ideal long-term but doable for a year. Relying on just my husband’s income would require huge sacrifices, and we have family support where we are now. Also, I’m a software developer so the job market right now, I weld want to be at the top of my game.

        2. I think the angle here is that *you* did not ask to end the job at the end of the year. You wanted to WFH indefinitely. The company countered with WFH until the end of the year, then termination. You can respond with, “in that case I’ll just stay in person indefinitely.”

    2. I think you got the right answer yesterday – no need to disclose the pregnancy, just tell your boss your plans have changed and you may be staying.

      I will say that while people are not wrong that it’s generally better not to disclose this stuff in advance, it can be easier said than done. A spouse is a huge part of your life and unless you lie or totally refuse to talk about your spouse at work, it’s sometimes unavoidable that it comes up. I had a similar situation when my college professor husband was applying for tenure track jobs that would necessitate a cross-country move. I disclosed to work too soon and ended up getting burned for it but without being weirdly cagey or telling straight up lies like “he wants to go into industry rather than academia” I’m not really sure it could have been avoided. So… I empathize.

      1. Thanks for the sympathy, yesterday’s answers made me feel like I was dumb. But in any other world this was a success – I got the longest remote extension my company has ever given! I would have been able to focus on moving without having to immediately job hunt in a new state. None of which happens if I didn’t speak up. Plus, I don’t like lying or dodging friendly questions about my weekend.

    3. Option 1- you gratefully accept the WFH offer and move with your husband as planned. In two or three months you disclose your pregnancy. Your boss may be secretly frustrated at the timing but that’s life.

      Option 2- you tell your boss that your moving plans are on hiatus. You then later disclose the pregnancy. Then what? Your husband is either living separately during the week or deadheading every day? Also when you’re home with a newborn? How long could that be sustainable?

      Weighing these, option 1 seems better to me.

      1. I don’t think you want your husband doing an unsustainable commute when you have a newborn. It’s a tough, exhausting time. He will be stretched thin as it is, having a baby and a new job. I would keep with your original plan to move, think about the timing, and how that might effect FMLA or your future job search. Having a baby is always inconvenient but employers deal with it. Do you have health insurance through your job or your husband’s?

    4. There isn’t a magical solution where you both get paid leave and don’t piss off your employer. Be careful this might impact your ability to get a good reference.

  10. Can anyone recommend a career/job search coach who works with attorneys and has knowledge of federal employment? Does anyone have experience with Anna Rappaport? I’m a career federal attorney trying to leave government, but I’m not sure what direction to go.

  11. My family (me, husband, 2 daughters ages 10 and 7) is going to Morrocco over spring break and I’m looking for hotel and activity recommendations in Essaouria and Marrakech.

    My FIL is from Morrocco and we are going there with him to meet extended family. We are excited for the trip and think it will be a great experience, but we have not traveled internationally and I’m expecting at least one of my girls (and maybe me) to feel overwhelmed by the cultural differences, language barriers, and meeting lots of new people. So, any other advice on those issues or more general Morroco travel tips is also welcome!

    1. No advice, but I would love a report back about your trip. I have an 8 year old girl and this trip is on our 2-3 year horizon.

    2. We did this trip a decade ago. In Marrakesh we loved going to the Majorelle Gardens, hammam treatments, and La Mamounia for a peaceful retreat. “The Square” was an annoying tourist trap best avoided. Be prepared for the paths/roads to be super chaotic with motorbikes whizzing past pedestrians. Learning some very basic Arabic (like, la for no) surprised people who were trying to hassle us to buy stuff, with positive results. We did love staying in a riad (looks like our specific one changed hands) and having coffee or drinks on the roof and hearing the muezzin all around!

      In hindsight would have spent more days in Essouira – it felt overall more chill and a fun-relaxed shopping experience. We stayed outside the walls at a beachy property.

      1. YMMV – Essouira was the only place I was followed and harassed by a group of teenage boys, who were also calling out in English so they knew I’d understand them.

        While I agree that there wasn’t some of the uncomfortable pressing male attention that you’d get in India, I also noticed that there were very few women at the outdoor/sidewalk seating areas, so make of that what you will.

        And brush up on your negotiating skills if you plan to buy anything!

    3. i have not been to Morrocco, but went on a trip to India and it was very much sensory overload and i felt the need to be ‘on guard’ the whole time. it was a very interesting trip, but not a place i have any desire to go back to. allow for some downtime, and if your kiddo is at all a picky eater, bring some packaged snacks from home. often times, less is more. i have never been to Morrocoo but it was my parents’ last trip before my mom passed away. In Marrakech they stayed at La Villa Des Orangers and it looks like they used a travel agent mountain-voyage.com

      1. I’ve been to both Morocco and India and Morocco is typically a much more comfortable travel experience for westerners. It’s closer to Europe than India imo.

    4. Oh fun! My husband and I did a trip in April a couple of years ago with out son, who was 12 at the time I think. This may not be in your budget, but we used a tour company–Wanderlust Voyages–that provided a driver for our whole trip, which was invaluable. He was incredibly nice, and gave us a lot of info through conversations while he was driving us around. (And just this morning, he texted me to tell me he had a baby). We stayed primarily in the greater Marrakesh area to avoid long car drives, which worked well.

      If you post a burner email I can send you our full itinerary. But we spent 3 nights in Marakesh, during which we did:
      — a guided tour of Marrakesh + a guided food tour. (Having a licensed guide in the medina was very helpful. The food tour was a highlight).
      –a drum-making class, which we ended up not enjoying that much as the three of us were crammed into a tiny stall in the medina with the craftsperson, and the actual activity of putting together the drum was just kind of boring.
      –a cooking class, which was great.
      –visited the Jardin Majorelle, which was okay–kind of small given how popular it is–and the Mohammed VI Museum of Water, which is definitely more geared to local residents but kind of interesting.
      –visited Bahia Palace – my husband and I enjoyed this; our son tolerated it. I would definitely visit at least one big historic building though

      We drove to Essaouira on the afternoon of the 4th day and spent 2 nights there. I think we visited an Argan oil co-op on the way to see how it is made. We LOVED Essaouira. It is really easy to navigate on your own, and very scenic. There are also stray cats everywhere–this is true of everywhere we went in Morocco, starting with the airport–some of which are very, very friendly. And lots of seafood, which works out well for the cats. We just walked around in Essaouria during our full day there, and our guide took us to a nearby beach he liked to go swimming. It was a little too windy to be pleasant for sunbathing–lots of blowing sand–but fun to watch the kite surfers.

      On the 6th day we drove to Ourika Oukaimeden, in the Atlas mountains, and spent 2 nights there. On our full day there, we did a guided hike up to see the waterfalls in Setti Fatma with a meal in the guide’s home, which was great.

      The next day, we drove to a luxury camp in the Agafay Desert and spent a night there. That was the only thing I would skip, as it just wasn’t our cup of tea, and the food/service wasn’t great. (We mostly stayed in moderate lodgings otherwise). And our driver, who grew up in the Sahara, kept reminding us it isn’t an actual desert, just rocky. It even rained while we were there. But we did the obligatory camel ride there.

    5. I have a long reply in mod – check back later.

      Also I forgot to say in my response that a little French will get you far. Most people speak it, especially in the bigger cities, and it is used on a lot of signs. It’s a very family-oriented culture, and people are very tolerant of and kind to children.

      I also forgot to list the hotels we stayed in, all of which I liked: Riad Nasreen in Marrakesh – in the medina but on the edge, so not overwhelming to get to; Riad L’Ayel d’Essaouria, and Aurocher Marrakech Ourika Oukaimeden. I didn’t love the Agafay camp we stayed at – Caravan by Habitas Agafay – but it was brand new at the time, so they may have worked out some of the kinks.

    6. I just went to Morocco back in October for my honeymoon! Absolutely loved it. Just be smart – carry your passport/cash close to and in front of you. The medinas are historic and VERY narrow so you are navigating busy alleyways with motorcycles, cars, etc. Just a consideration with the kids. To the commenter who made the India comparison, it was much lighter for me on the sensory overload than India (my family is there), but that is up to your individual tolerance. Anyway, here’s what we did:

      Marrakech:
      Stay: Riad Amore (we enjoyed it and it has a hammam on site)
      Do: Guided walking tour of the university and local market, exploring the city, Jemaa el-Fnaa, Majorelle Gardens, YSL museum. Having a guide for local markets is nice, but they get kickbacks for purchases you make at specific vendors, so don’t feel like you need to buy at the vendors they bring you to. We did the markets on our own later (it was just included in the walking tour we did ) and it was totally fine. Also if you take pictures of the monkeys or really any novelty, vendors may ask you to pay. You can say no. ALWAYS bargain at the market (same as India).

      Essaouira (one of my favorite stops):
      Stay: Riad Espritbleue – we really loved it! Artsy vibe and delicious breakfast.
      Do: Explored the historic ramparts, my husband surfed, checked out the souks. It gets COLD and windy so pack appropriately.

    7. There is a great food market called Jemaa el-Fnaa in Marrakech. I highly recommend Hassan’s #3 stand (written up in the NYT and elsewhere), but even if you just go and walk around it was fun. YMMV, but a visit to a hammam might be pretty fun and different as well.

    8. Morocco was somewhat stressful for me because I felt like I had to be on guard all the time and everyone was trying to get money from me. This is especially the case for the square or markets. If you take a photo and someone happens to be in it, they will ask you for money. Little kids try to give you directions so they can get money. Our guide (who was supposed to be legit and recommended by the hotel) scammed us so we almost missed our flight and had to pay his friend an exorbitant amount to get us to the airport. It was just constant.

      Having said that, it’s a beautiful and interesting place. I really enjoyed a day trip up to the Atlas Mountains (where I found the locals much easier to interact with and learn from). I loved the food and the cultural experiences outside the main tourist traps. The rooftops are incredible. Loved the Majorelle Gardens. If you have extended that can show you around, you will likely have a much better experience.

      1. extended *family, that is. Or just a guide someone you trust recommends to you. That would make all the difference.

    9. Highly recommend Riad L’Orangerie. A lovely oasis of calm in the midst of the old city. It’s walkable to the square (Go. Eat the street food.) and other interesting sights. Just down the street is Maison du Kaftan for some cool clothes shopping. If you get to the point that you’d like a salad or pasta, recommend Cafe Arabe, not to be confused with the Hotel La Maison Arabe, which is my high dollar pick for lodging. Hire a guide and take a day trip to the Atlas Mountains to Imlil and have tea at Kasbah du Toubkal with a marvelous view of Toubkal, then a mini-trek out from the village.

  12. I grew up in a small church where everyone knew everyone. It wasn’t great (few youth = no youth group or cool / fun things as a teen). My parents stayed at that church and as they got very sick, parishioners and the rector showed up, bought food, knitted prayer shawls, etc. My church in my new city is big and rich and I feel that for all of the time I’ve been there (from single through my kids’ confirmations; I was married at home though), it’s just a transactional relationship. Is that just how big churches are? I love the music program, but I feel that when I am sick and die, no one will know or even care. It just feels very hollow, especially in light of how well my parents’ church treated them. And I live in a city, so this is the church in my neighborhood and anything else would be further out. Just shut up and enjoy the music? I work still, but IDK who’d even know if someone were sick or needed soup or a clergy visit.

    1. Maybe ask a church admin about who to reach out to join groups or lists of people who want to be more involved?

    2. I’m in a medium-sized church. While there are many things about it that I like, it is definitely not the same in terms of the church community I grew up in where everyone knew everybody. What has helped some is identifying “my people” within the larger church community and focusing on building those relationships. I feel like my DH and I are plenty involved, but it is never going to be the same level of care and concern as where I was raised. I’ve had to make peace with that.

    3. If all you are doing is showing up for services, that does not build connections in a larger church. That is not a judgment BTW – there have been times in my life where I just showed up for the service and the pretty music. But if you want to build connections, you need to join a ministry team or regularly attend a small group because otherwise you are just one of the hundreds of people at the service. Does your church have a ministry fair or list of ministries? Does it have small study groups? This would be a great question for your rector (or whatever you call it at your church). Barring that, are you FB friends with other parishioners or clergy? I have had all kinds of offers of help because people I go to church with saw my FB status.

      My church has a couple of hundred people at our “big” Sunday service, but our quilt team will make one for anyone who asks and our clergy will visit anyone who calls the office – but if you want them to know you are sick or in need without you asking for help, you need to build a relationship where they know that.

      1. That’s the thing — for years I was a Sunday school teacher on a team for a grade so you’d think I knew a lot of other parents and kids. My kids did junior choir and vacation bible school. And COVID did wreck a lot of this. I help when they acolyte with lighting candles and such. I’m in a knitting group. It still just all seems so empty.

        1. I feel you, OP. DH and I have been very involved on committees, Sunday School, VBS, all the things. It still feels empty and transactional sometimes. It has occurred to me that maybe we aren’t in the right place, but I truly love the services and many things about the church’s approach.

        2. I’m a spiritual director, and I can’t help weighing in here. I’d suggest you go meet with someone like me. If your church is the kind to have acolytes and candles and such, someone in the office likely knows a network or community of spiritual directors and could recommend someone. Or, a nearby Catholic retreat center is sure to have one.

          It sounds like you need a safe, non-judgmental place to explore this experience of transactional church, “it all seems so empty,” the loneliness of feeling disconnected, whatever life stage you’re in that might also be contributing to all of this, and where God is (or isn’t) in all of this. Meeting with a spiritual director would give you that space. (In spite of the unfortunate title, I promise we’re very non-directive.)

          1. What exactly is a spiritual director and are they only for Catholics? I could use a conversation with one and my UMC church definitely does not have such a thing.

          2. I am not a spiritual director but my mother (ordained) is. They are for any denomination (my mother works with people of other faiths, as well).

        3. If it feels empty and transactional, try other churches. My church doesn’t feel that way at all, and I am way less involved than you are. Churches do vary! I tried out three different churches before I settled on the one I’m at now.

          At my church, it’s small enough that I recognize all the people who usually sit in my area of the pews, and I find that to be comforting. Nice church ladies gleefully say hi to my kids every Sunday. My kids play with their friends on the playground after church. Everyone stays to eat donuts and drink coffee after the service. It’s not a pushy “we need to plug you in” kind of church, but a nice level of welcoming.

    4. I am a lay leader in a pretty large church. The people in our church who have the kind of network you describe are those involved in long-term small groups like adult Sunday school classes or weeknight Bible studies or the choir. The problem our church has is that most of these groups consist of older people who have been meeting together for decades, newcomers don’t feel welcome in these established groups, and there really isn’t anything except choir that is inclusive for people of working age. To solve this, we are currently working to expand small group opportunities for adults of all ages. In your situation, I would ask the pastor or the person responsible for coordinating small groups what groups are available to you, and try one or more out to find the right fit. I would also encourage you to consider joining the music program in some capacity. Church choirs tend to be pretty close-knit, and many are diverse in age. Even if you’ve never sung before and don’t read music, there is probably a choir opportunity that’s appropriate for you.

      1. Small groups are the way. We are currently church shopping, and after being in an amazing small group at our previous church (the church became problematic for very different reasons). A small group is our non-negotiable, and it is so hard to find. At this point in our life, I need friends more than I need a Sunday school class that is a mini-church (BTDT). We have strongly considered going back to the problem church just for the small group. People need community, and this was ours.

        1. We have people who come to our small groups but still attend Sunday services at their old church. You could do the opposite–stay in the small group at the problematic church and find another church for everything else.

    5. The bigger the church, the more important it is to find a smaller community or group within the church, where you can show up again and again over time, and get to know people well enough so they’ll know when you’re not there and are sick. (This may be harder to do in a city where there tends to be more congregational turnover.)

      Barring that, if you’re sick or need a clergy visit, call the office. A large church generally has enough paid staff to have systems in place for ensuring congregational care of different kinds.

    6. so i am Jewish, but i think it depends on how involved you are. Like my Bff’s parents just moved from her hometown to where my BFF and her family reside now and they became involved with the synagogue in their new location and her mom spends time making meals for people who are sick, etc. but this is also bc she is a retiree with lots of time on her hands and shows up for every service, signs up for every committee, attends events, etc. etc. They also did this in the town they came from. I feel the same way that you do about your church as I do about my synagogue. My parents were not particularly involved in our synagogue growing up, but I attended a Jewish Day School and they had a big community through that and those people did show up (multiple times) when my mom was sick, when she passed and continue to show up for my dad

    7. I have thoughts on this, as someone who recently-ish switched from a larger to a smaller church, in large part due to similar thoughts as you mentioned.

      IMO, one question that was valuable to consider was: how important is it for your church to be in your neighborhood, if you’re not actually experiencing the community? Would you trade 10-15 minutes of travel time for feeling cared for in a community? In my case it was worth the trade off

    8. I lean toward smaller churches. Last time we were church shopping someone referred to their 6k congregation as medium – that was huge to us!
      You get that community by investing in smaller group relationships. At our current church we created the Sunday school class that we wanted! Good luck.

    9. Sometimes you just don’t click. When I left my husband about 15 years ago, one of the places I tried to find community was at a large UU church in town. I did everything right — went to events, volunteered to teach Sunday school — but I swear those people just wouldn’t give me the time of day. I finally just quit and looked elsewhere for fellowship. So you might want to cast your net further afield, either geographically to another church, or to another venue like a service club or other volunteer group.

    10. I think there’s an element of this that is unavoidable in both large churches and urban ones/places with a lot of transience and moving – there’s just a point where the number of people who can reasonably know each other/know what’s going on/etc is too large. Done well, big churches can mitigate this with small groups/specific ministries like choir/nursing home visits/youth ministry/etc so everyone knows someone, even though “everyone knows everyone” isn’t possible. If getting involved in some subgroup is a possibility for you, highly recommend.

      The other practical thing I’d put out is, don’t underestimate the importance of following up on weak connections – like, if you see someone at after-service-donuts hour last week, remember their name (I have to text them to myself with a description of what they look like to have any chance of remembering), and invite them to dinner. ie. try to find a way to move some of your connections out of the “institutional” space to build that community – these are the people who will know if you are sick.

      The other thing that I think is a bigger factor that people realize is that insurance & liability a) tend to be thought about more formally at bigger churches and b) are a real limit on churches can do. This has advantages and leads to some genuine good, so don’t take this as a knock on insurance companies – but just something to keep in mind if you’re finding yourself thinking things like “Why doesn’t the church organize a platform where people can sign up to give a ride to a senior who needs one?”. Having contact with people that’s not mediated via “official” church events gets you around those obstacles.

      Final random thought – for me personally, the people I would text with an emergency prayer request are not at the church I go to on Sundays. In an ideal world, I’d like those two things to overlap, but it doesn’t, and I’d rather have “split” communities, than zero community. Any chance that makes sense for your situation?

    11. I’m of a denomination that tries to keep congregations between 200-250 people when they can. It’s something I really appreciate about it – small enough that everyone matters and contributes, big enough that it’s not going to fall apart if someone moves or otherwise leaves.

    1. I read (in Atul Gawande’s excellent book “Being Mortal”) that it is actually a normal part of aging – the muscles lose tone and don’t work as well. That being said, my MIL who has dementia is the only one of our 5 parents/stepparents all over 75 who has exhibited this.

      1. I would be careful with Atul Gawande, who is a notorious evangelist for healthcare austerity. There are many “normal parts of aging” that are treated if they begin in our 30s that no one bothers to try to treat when we’re older, even when the same treatments would work. Normal in the sense of common doesn’t always mean normal in the sense of “we have to just accept it and not try to alleviate it through medical interventions that can seriously help.” I have better muscle tone in my throat thanks to medical intervention.

    2. The medical term for this is dysphagia, and it usually shows up more in the middle stages of dementia. There are a lot of other things that can cause it besides dementia. Ask for a referral to a speech therapist who can evaluate the person’s swallowing mechanism. This usually involves a physical examination and possibly a study called a barium swallow, which is probably most easily understood by watching a YouTube video. Based on the results, a speech therapist can make recommendations about how to optimize safe swallowing techniques and food/liquid choices.

      1. Yes, this can be the first symptom of a lot of different conditions or sometimes even a medication side effect.

        It’s good to get it checked out and addressed or managed because it’s a risk factor for aspiration pneumonia.

    3. Not in my experience, no. It happens in end stage dementia. But if you notice it without memory issues ur likely a symptom of something else.

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